The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - Jordan Peterson on Divorce, Breakups, Jealousy, and Dark Personality Traits ｜ EP 199

00:00:00.000 Why do you hate Elmo so much? He's a cringing little milksop of a puppet. I like the Jim 0.94

00:00:04.760 Henson puppets. They all had an edge. They were funny. Jim Henson was funny. He was a terrible

00:00:09.320 stoner and you could tell that in Sesame Street. We used to sit around when I was a teenager and

00:00:13.780 get stoned and watch Sesame Street. I mean oh nobody could invent the count who hadn't smoked

00:00:18.380 like eight pounds of weed. Dad welcome to my podcast. Thanks for the invitation. Good to see

00:00:26.220 you good to see you too wear your uggs these are my backup slippers man they look like backups they

00:00:34.240 do yes they certainly do they're not the ugliest slippers I have though this is true okay last week

00:00:40.540 you talked about you had a story about how much you were being paid at Harvard and how that was

00:00:46.080 difficult because mom was staying at home and you just weren't being paid very much and I wanted

00:00:51.620 you to tell everybody about that? Well, when I was an assistant professor, so there are three

00:00:59.320 tiers of professor, assistant, associate, and full. And assistant professor is the beginning

00:01:05.780 position. And generally you're tenured, which gives you some job security at associate. And

00:01:10.700 then there are a few more perks that come along with full professor. I started as an assistant

00:01:16.120 professor at harvard and it wasn't necessary for harvard to be particularly competitive on the

00:01:23.360 salary side of things despite the fact that they have untold billions in their hedge fund harvard's

00:01:29.760 really a hedge fund now by the way and not a university so yes well be careful what you wish

00:01:35.300 for you know anyways i wasn't paid enough as an assistant professor at harvard to support a family

00:01:42.900 in boston and i worked i'm not complaining about this it was a great opportunity to be in boston

00:01:49.100 but tammy didn't have a green card so she couldn't work and we spent no money i had a like a the most

00:01:57.680 rat box of a car that you could possibly rackaby rackaby yeah i mean that car the doors literally

00:02:04.000 fell off that car two weeks after we sold it to our neighbor now they the neighbor by the way knew

00:02:08.680 that the car was in that bad of shape so i think we traded it to them for partly because we got

00:02:14.720 their cadillac anyways we didn't even buy magazines we we had no money and uh i had to

00:02:22.400 teach extra courses so i taught two extra courses per semester which is a lot because you you're

00:02:27.740 full loaded especially if you're doing research is three courses in total three or four across

00:02:34.280 two semesters so two per semester i taught twice that much oh and one day i phoned the dean and i

00:02:41.360 said well this is i phoned the dean and i said i don't know what's going on here but like i can't

00:02:48.540 i'm having a hard time getting my research enterprise up and going because i'm teaching

00:02:52.720 so much i don't have enough time to attend to the research and i don't mind that because i love

00:02:57.300 teaching but like what the hell how do you justify this and he said most of our people consult

00:03:03.820 which was not true many of the senior faculty consult but to consult well first of all you

00:03:10.840 have to be established somewhere for a long time and you have to have a reputation and

00:03:14.120 like it takes a long time to build up a consulting enterprise it's not something you just step into

00:03:19.040 overnight it's like a decade to build a consulting operation it's very hard to get patients well well

00:03:25.320 or not patients but clients clients yeah yeah right right and uh i wasn't practicing as a

00:03:30.380 clinical psychologist at that point although i was licensed anyways that's when i started the

00:03:35.880 enterprises that became exam core um because i was looking for something i could capitalize on

00:03:44.300 that i knew about that would be useful that would be economically productive you know and that took

00:03:49.680 off it took a long time like we didn't really make profit with exam core for 15 years and that

00:03:54.540 that's understand myself yeah and self-authoring yeah yeah so i just thought it was interesting

00:04:01.420 that uh i didn't realize that i don't know if it's still the same now but i didn't realize that

00:04:06.540 that's how little money associate professors can make even at ivy league assistant oh definitely

00:04:11.620 assistant yeah is it still the same um i don't know i would things are a lot more expensive now

00:04:18.520 they'd have to be paid quite a bit more for it to be the same i would assume right because i

00:04:22.660 imagine that well the housing market is certainly more expensive now than it was i mean boston's

00:04:26.640 housing market was very expensive when we were there in the 90s that had already started although

00:04:31.040 we did we did buy a house when we were there in a working-class town in arlington very nice

00:04:37.900 working-class town and we could afford that just like barely and we had loans from our parents for

00:04:44.660 the down payment at least partially from our parents yeah so i mean it was fine we just didn't

00:04:50.700 have any money like the thing is your poverty isn't defined by your money precisely your poverty

00:04:57.600 is defined by your opportunity right and so if you don't have any money but you have lots of

00:05:02.460 opportunity you're rich you just don't have any money and you can have lots of money and be poor

00:05:07.800 i mean that's i wouldn't say that's the normal run of things but it's certainly a possibility

00:05:13.860 partly because money isn't the solution to many of life's problems

00:05:17.580 can help the solution to some of them some of them yeah okay um i have a list of questions

00:05:26.660 i usually take some from the audience but there's only one in here from the audience

00:05:31.240 uh so you talk a lot about keeping families together and how two parents a man and a woman

00:05:39.100 are ideal for a child when they're the minimal necessary arrangement so like two wives is better

00:05:45.140 you mean two wives better than a single mother no i meant two wives and a husband

00:05:51.400 you said minimal minimal arrangement right right right right that was a joke yes yes yes you have

00:05:56.500 to find two wives who would get along with each other and that's technically impossible

00:05:59.780 hey guys if you didn't know my dad's going on tour for his upcoming we who wrestle with god book

00:06:06.340 if you guys like the biblical series on youtube you're going to love this

00:06:10.220 tickets are available at jordanbpeterson.com and honestly if there are any of the lectures you

00:06:15.540 guys should go to it's one on this tour it could change your life listening to dad's lectures brought

00:06:20.880 mom closer to god and i think that's what he's hoping to do for people i'm not sure what other

00:06:25.720 lecture you can go to that's trying to deliver that mom's going to be opening for him and

00:06:30.500 hopefully i can come along to some of the shows but we'll see how baby george and my sleep feels

00:06:35.420 about that. Tickets are available at jordanbpeterson.com for shows in the U.S. starting

00:06:40.040 in February. There are also meet and greet tickets still available. I hope you enjoy

00:06:44.200 this episode. How do you know when divorce is the right option?

00:06:51.080 Well, I would say that's all things considered up to the adults involved, right? I don't know

00:06:58.540 if there is a rule of thumb that generally what you see and this used to be encoded in law is

00:07:05.720 something like irreconcilable differences so we've had family members who got divorced because one of

00:07:12.600 them wanted a child and the other didn't well possibly you could negotiate negotiate around

00:07:19.200 that although it's not simple it's a pretty fundamental difference and so you know and then

00:07:26.040 i would say repeated actions of bad faith on the part of one of the people and that would be

00:07:32.600 repeated indication that negotiation in good faith is impossible repeated patterns of deception

00:07:39.300 that's a really bad one um i suppose there are probably instances of profound temperamental

00:07:46.600 incompatibility i think it's very difficult for example to take a relatively value-free

00:07:52.780 big five dimension if you're insanely creative and interested in ideas so high in trade openness

00:07:59.720 and the person you're with is very much tilted in the other direction finds no interest in ideas

00:08:05.960 has very little aesthetic sensibility that's a very difficult uh difference to overcome there's

00:08:13.520 no real negotiation there you know if you're if one of you is 80th percentile and the other is

00:08:18.460 30th percentile that sounds like a huge difference but it's not 99.9 compared to 0.1 it's not one in

00:08:25.320 a thousand different you know you're kind of in the normal range well then you can there's some

00:08:31.200 room for negotiation and expansion on the part let's say of the less open person and maybe some

00:08:38.940 appreciation for the norm and what's more conservative on the part of the more open person

00:08:44.280 you know because openness isn't without its downsides open people can easily be scattered

00:08:49.000 all over the place and interested in way too many things and be dilettantes and and be flaky

00:08:54.160 especially if they're not good at distinguishing good ideas from bad ideas but if you're really

00:08:59.540 different on any given temperamental dimension that makes the corresponding communication much

00:09:06.600 more challenging like it's very very hard for someone extremely extroverted to be with someone

00:09:11.420 extremely introverted because the whole orientation to the to the social world is opposite

00:09:16.360 disagreeable i've seen this with men and women you'll get a very agreeable woman who's quite

00:09:21.900 feminine and a very disagreeable man who's like hyper masculine and they can't communicate

00:09:27.740 that happens a lot i wonder if that's part of the reason this red pill community has taken off

00:09:33.780 because a lot of the people who are figureheads in this community are extremely disagreeable

00:09:39.200 like probably first percentile and disagreeableness and what they teach other people is

00:09:43.800 men can really be friends with other men because they understand each other yeah men can't be

00:09:48.820 friends with women at all and can't even really communicate with them that's kind of what they

00:09:53.320 teach people i wonder if that's a personality trait well i think well i think that like

00:09:58.640 hyper masculine men have a hard time communicating with hyper feminine women definitely but this is

00:10:05.700 where the gender issue becomes more complex the radical leftist claim is that there's a

00:10:12.900 there's no limit to the number of genders there are and that's actually true even though they're 1.00

00:10:18.480 stupid well they're stupid they don't know what they're talking about but there's an element of 1.00

00:10:23.620 it that's true because the the cardinal elements of gender difference and personality are agreeable 1.00

00:10:29.740 to us and neuroticism so the typical hyper feminine woman is extremely agreeable and high

00:10:34.840 negative emotion and the typical man is disagreeable and low in negative emotion right

00:10:40.360 so and there's positives and negatives associated with both that an agreeable person

00:10:45.040 is very much concerned with the feelings of other people you know is concerned with others and you

00:10:51.180 can see that as a virtue although hyper agreeable people tend to be resentful because they don't

00:10:56.960 ever put their own interests in the they don't put them forward properly and it's also the case

00:11:03.560 that there are far more agreeable people going to therapy to become more disagreeable than there

00:11:07.860 are disagreeable people going to therapy to become more agreeable right so and then with

00:11:12.740 is that because they're disagreeable though and won't go to therapy or is it well i think beneficial

00:11:17.200 to be disagreeable than it is to be hyper agreeable well i think that being very agreeable

00:11:22.100 carries with it that terrible burden of of continual martyrdom and self-sacrifice and and

00:11:27.380 i don't think that if you're trying to make your way in the world as an individual that that's 0.97

00:11:31.760 there's definite disadvantages to that a prior position one of the reasons women don't make as

00:11:37.620 much money as men in comparable positions to the degree that that's true at all like there's that's 0.60

00:11:43.020 not true if you compare single men and women in their mid-20s who are childless in fact the women

00:11:49.100 actually have a bit of an advantage but but insofar as there are gender differences in payment

00:11:53.820 for position one of the contributing factors is that women are more agreeable and agreeable women 1.00

00:11:58.920 won't go to their boss and say give me a raise you son of a bitch or i'll leave and like i can 1.00

00:12:04.440 imagine like men will have a conversation just like that even if the guy who's making the claim 1.00

00:12:10.360 is the subordinate you know if if the and that's a disagreeable mode of communication it can be

00:12:15.900 overlaid with humor you know and then with you might say well what's the advantage of high

00:12:21.700 trait neuroticism the proclivity to negative emotion well it's threat sensitivity and if

00:12:27.280 you're a mother of infants being threat sensitive is unbelievably useful because infants are extremely

00:12:32.340 vulnerable and so you should be alert to threat you're alert to snakes well what's the downside

00:12:42.240 well you're always afraid of snakes that's the downs well yeah well of course of course but

00:12:46.600 that doesn't mean that it doesn't have its adapt adaptive utility but it's still the case that if

00:12:53.040 you have a disagreeable man who's very emotionally stable and a hyper agreeable woman who's emotionally

00:12:57.660 you know who's who has a pronounced proclivity for negative emotion it's going to be very difficult

00:13:02.460 for them to communicate there's other temperamental differences between men and women too so if you

00:13:08.100 look at extroversion men are more so extroversion is assertiveness and enthusiasm okay men and women

00:13:15.100 are about equal in in extroversion but women are more enthusiastic and men are more assertive so

00:13:20.720 it breaks there and then in openness openness breaks down into interest in ideas and interest

00:13:25.580 in aesthetics and women and men are about equal in openness overall but women are higher in interest

00:13:30.900 in aesthetics and men are higher in interest in ideas and you can see that reflected in the fact

00:13:35.680 for example that youtube is primarily a male domain and that's because it tends to focus on

00:13:41.300 ideas you know the the upper echelons of youtube let's say so and men are more in this is why men

00:13:47.860 read non-fiction instead of fiction it's the same reflection and so you can imagine a woman and a

00:13:55.180 man who have virtually no overlap in personality right now that's going to be relatively rare

00:14:01.000 because most of the traits overlap quite a bit but in some you could imagine that you could

00:14:05.960 categorically distinguish them while they'd have a hard time communicating yeah so this plays nicely

00:14:12.740 into so so two things one we won't touch too much on this because we can talk about this later

00:14:17.520 but we do have an idea to build a dating app that looks at the temperamental differences

00:14:22.720 and personality between men and women and matches you based on that yeah and a number of other

00:14:28.380 yeah well the empirical literature suggests that it's easier to get along with people who are

00:14:34.120 similar to you in personality and part of the reason for that is that part of the way that

00:14:38.960 you get along with people is by sharing interests and activities and what interests and activities

00:14:44.460 you find compelling are going to be a reflective reflection of your temperament yeah we'll look

00:14:49.120 into that too though we could well with with dad and mom my dad and mom for example dad's an avid

00:14:53.960 hunter you know a dad's relatively disagreeable which is one of the things you need to be to be

00:14:59.600 a hunter as it turns out and mom is very agreeable and she's not interested in hunting and you had a

00:15:04.300 bit of that oh my gosh we went gopher hunting one time yeah it was julian and i when we were kids

00:15:09.580 and i don't think i'd have this issue anymore i wouldn't have this issue anymore i think this

00:15:14.860 is partly because i was depressed a large portion actually i think was because i was depressed but

00:15:19.520 we went gopher hunting because gophers destroy farmers lands so they actually want you to come

00:15:24.920 and hunt gophers and julian's shooting gophers like left and right he's probably seven or something

00:15:31.940 like that and when you shoot them they scream they scream this high-pitched scream and i

00:15:39.480 sat in the car with my hands over my ears so i was probably nine and cried right right right well

00:15:43.780 when i used to go hunting with dad i was too tender-minded for it too so tender-hearted yeah

00:15:49.980 tender-hearted yeah yeah but but but but that's a good example of how temperamental difference can

00:15:56.860 you know make make a relationship difficult more difficult because there's no overlap in a parent

00:16:03.080 there's little overlap in a parent interest you know and tam used to encounter that with her dad

00:16:08.020 her dad was quite an entrepreneurial character but he wasn't one of the world's most aesthetically

00:16:13.260 sensitive people he had no interest in art whatsoever right and he just he just thought

00:16:17.800 it was a practical waste of time like many conservative people think and you know she'd

00:16:22.240 haul him along to a museum and his attitude was what the hell are we doing in this museum and

00:16:27.100 why have we been here for so long right and that's clear reflection of of different and

00:16:32.900 difference in interest you know your mom and i are well matched in that regard because

00:16:37.060 i might be more open than she is but maybe in some ways likely in some ways in some ways

00:16:44.460 in some ways yeah yeah well for a long time she is she is well she's certainly

00:16:49.360 open enough so that that isn't an impediment in our relationship and she's very adventurous

00:16:54.460 so you know her and i are quite well matched in temperament she's probably more

00:17:00.060 less neurotic than me i would say maybe maybe i think and probably i think there's some

00:17:07.340 well we'll have to like gather data and see but i feel like there are some personality traits that

00:17:12.240 can be significantly different and can still line up like you couldn't put two neurotic people 0.55

00:17:17.380 together no no that would that's why lesbian relationships don't last but it's gonna get 1.00

00:17:22.860 well it is why it is why because about 70 75 percent of divorces are initiated by women 1.00

00:17:28.600 and the simplest explanation for that is that on average the most unhappy person in the

00:17:34.100 relationship is going to be the woman well why well because on average she has higher levels

00:17:38.240 of negative emotion that doesn't necessarily mean that that negative emotion doesn't reflect

00:17:42.980 problems in the relationship but she's going to be more sensitive to that well so if you put two

00:17:47.800 women together well you know what do you think happens so i mean it's one of the reasons it's

00:17:53.900 not the only reason the red-pilled community twists that too saying like most divorces are

00:18:00.220 initiated by women so women are the problem which i don't think no that doesn't that doesn't follow

00:18:04.980 at all it could be that you know men are the problem and women just pick up on it now it's

00:18:09.620 not i mean the right attitude there is obviously that on average it's 50 50 yeah and and even if

00:18:16.340 you're thinking about that biologically it's the only answer that makes sense it's like well men

00:18:20.040 and women there they they co-evolved yeah so there's no it's men that are the problem it's 0.96

00:18:28.480 women that problem that's just ridiculous it's ridiculous hey guys so last year before i 0.96

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00:20:03.580 hope you guys are enjoying this episode. You want to hear the audience question? Sure. Why do you

00:20:07.760 hate elmo so much he's a cringing little milksop of a puppet he's whiny he's false he's he's fake

00:20:17.460 nice there's not he he wasn't a jim henson creation by the way i like the jim henson puppets they all 0.76

00:20:24.060 had an edge they were funny jim henson was funny he was a terrible stoner and you could tell that

00:20:30.080 in sesame street you could we used to sit around when i was a teenager and get stoned and watch

00:20:34.180 sesame street i mean oh nobody could invent the count who hadn't smoked like eight pounds of weed

00:20:39.720 a cookie monster or the cookie monster exactly and so jim henson was a hoot and the muppet show

00:20:44.920 was very funny elmo's like this elmo's like the politically correct puppet of the muppet troops 0.74

00:20:50.380 and that whiny voice just grates everything about that bloody puppet grates on me elbow 0.85

00:20:55.440 sickening puppet he's got particularly politically correct on recent years in sesame street too i saw 0.95

00:21:00.900 some clips lately about him one of his puppet friends decrying systemic racism for four-year

00:21:06.080 olds oh so no elmo's well plus if i remember correctly there was some untoward behavior on

00:21:14.920 the part of his puppeteer yeah a little yeah yeah surprise surprise i thought well nobody could see 0.99

00:21:21.440 that coming whose eyes were open for 20 years okay stupid puppet advice for people getting 0.98

00:21:29.820 sounds like that horrible character on star wars that me so oh i know is it a little bear thing 0.99

00:21:37.400 no well there's always an annoying character like that in every star wars movie for a while

00:21:41.840 um i don't remember he had eyes out on the side of his head anyways he's the same character it's 0.92

00:21:48.520 like i'm oh and that they even did that in harry potter with that bloody dog oh god

00:21:53.560 Dobby and Elmo are the same creature not Dobby yeah Dobby was annoying very yeah yeah

00:22:01.160 advice for people getting over a breakup well take some time to like don't contact the other

00:22:09.900 person well generally for the psychiatric on the psychiatric end of things if you're grieving

00:22:15.940 generally the psychiatric psychological community has agreed that something like a year of

00:22:22.860 grief in a consequential to a severe loss is well within the realm of normative so it's going to

00:22:32.980 hurt um so don't be too impatient with yourself i would say what else what else do you need to know

00:22:42.260 cynicism and bitterness are not your friend

00:22:46.040 um that person isn't reflective of women the person you broke up with isn't reflective of men

00:22:56.120 that's not helpful right so you don't want to over generalize i don't think you want to leap

00:23:01.800 back in any too soon and you might spend some real time thinking about not so much what the

00:23:07.520 other person did wrong even though there's nothing more satisfying than that you should spend some

00:23:12.280 real time thinking about what you did wrong especially if this has been a pattern you know

00:23:19.880 i noticed when i was in college i broke up with three girls i think in the space of six months

00:23:25.140 something like that they were relatively short-term relationships you know but they they

00:23:29.080 all ended the same way more or less and i don't even remember the details but i thought oh that's

00:23:34.720 not them that's me and you know it took me a while to sort out what it was part of it was that i had

00:23:41.460 a tendency this is very common in fact i'm sure it's overwhelmingly the norm maybe women do this

00:23:48.720 too god only knows what women do but i had a tendency to put any woman that i was attracted

00:23:56.360 to on a pedestal and that was hard on her and also you know put me in a demeaned position

00:24:02.680 immediately which was also not attractive by the way and so that was an anima problem technically 0.91

00:24:09.620 and took me a while to sort that out actually my perception of women changed when I sorted it out 1.00

00:24:15.280 changed overnight I saw one really interesting example of this so

00:24:19.540 I don't know if I can explain this properly but maybe I can if you put the woman that you're

00:24:27.660 attracted to on a pedestal what you're really attracted to is your unconscious idealization

00:24:33.020 of women and men see their unconscious idealization of women in someone they're

00:24:40.960 attracted to especially if the attraction is pronounced and immediate right that's a

00:24:44.760 projection psychoanalytically speaking and then they confuse the woman with that idealization

00:24:49.800 which is very difficult to bear for the woman because she's not really there that's the first

00:24:57.160 problem and second she's going to get herself in trouble and not know it because now and then 0.99

00:25:02.300 she's going to do something that violates that ideal projection and be called to account for it

00:25:07.540 even though she doesn't know what rules she's breaking plus the guy won't be able to listen to

00:25:11.960 her or appreciate anything about her that's not perfect or in accordance with that ideal

00:25:18.520 so that means she can't really talk to him right she can't reveal anything that's untoward or

00:25:25.360 that definitely makes sense i think that is probably common for people so so one of the

00:25:31.800 things that happened when i solved that problem i was studying a lot of union psychology at the

00:25:36.800 time it literally happened overnight is i can remember walking down the streets of montreal

00:25:41.260 and i saw an ad on a bus and you know at that time this was in the 80s they're probably still

00:25:48.640 doing this a lot of the models that were used by like makeup companies were very young women like

00:25:53.340 14 but made up you know so they were sexualized well it's still the case like there's very young

00:25:58.360 bottles who were used you know but but i know that before i had seen through my own illusions

00:26:06.100 that i would have seen in the ad a beautiful woman and then i saw a girl dressed up like a woman

00:26:12.460 oh that's interesting wow yeah well there's a loss in that too like the loss is this is a loss

00:26:20.580 of maturity is that you know if you are in love with your ideal then you have the ideal like you

00:26:26.860 have the princess the price you pay is you don't get the woman now if you want the woman the price

00:26:32.380 you pay for that is that you have to let go of the princess right right now that's what you should

00:26:38.720 do because the princess thing isn't going anywhere but it is definitely a sacrifice it's sort of like

00:26:44.980 growing up and coming to the realization that your father doesn't know everything which of course

00:26:50.760 isn't true in your case by the way but it's it's there's a loss in that right like the gain is that

00:26:55.760 you gain the maturity and the self-confidence to go out and make your own decisions but the loss is

00:27:00.700 that you had a figure who is an intermediary between you and the world who knew everything

00:27:05.060 lots of people who remain over dependent on their father for example remain over dependent they're

00:27:10.260 willing to exist under his thumb even if it's rather tyrannical because they don't want to give

00:27:14.980 up the certainty that there's someone out there in the world who actually knows what's going on

00:27:20.040 yeah that's scary of course of course that's interesting okay so that's what not to like

00:27:28.120 still stick on this red-pilled community but they're in they're interesting i find it yeah 0.98

00:27:33.980 yeah it's interesting very strange well it's the beginning of a kind of backlash against idiot 0.98

00:27:38.700 feminism like a wide-scale backlash yeah it is it's the opposite yeah in an also toxic way 0.98

00:27:44.580 but that's what these people are looking for is the princess and then the problem with the red 0.97

00:27:51.220 pill community is they're telling all these young people that the woman they want to look for is the

00:27:56.800 princess like literally a virgin well well well and part of the problem with that too is there's 0.82

00:28:02.580 a maiden whore thing that's a problem there too so there's you could think of there's two archetypal 0.65

00:28:08.100 representations of women there's more than two but here's two and they're on opposite ends and 0.99

00:28:13.280 One is the virgin mother and the other is the, you know, the stripper whore, right? 0.99

00:28:18.620 And you might think, well, if you're going to get married, you want the virgin mother. 1.00

00:28:22.040 Well, sometimes, right? 1.00

00:28:26.220 Well, so then, and sometimes maybe the stripper whore is the preferable object. 1.00

00:28:30.660 Well, now, how do you bring those two together? 0.99

00:28:33.480 Well, you have, there has to be a sacrifice, right?

00:28:36.800 There's a sacrifice of purity, certainly.

00:28:38.840 and part of the reason that couples men remain sexually unsatisfied in their marital relationships 0.99

00:28:46.240 is because you know virgin mother is for their wife and whore is for their stripper girlfriend 0.99

00:28:52.920 well that's not very good for the stripper girlfriend because she ends up like you know 1.00

00:28:58.080 cocaine in back ellies that's fun for her and it's not so good for the wife because her idiot 1.00

00:29:04.960 husband is flandering around with sluts and so that's real fun plus she's like boxed into her 1.00

00:29:10.920 little ice box refrigerator life having to be picture perfect like a stepford wife all the time 1.00

00:29:17.220 yeah right it's very unsatisfying for everyone involved this is partly why jung

00:29:22.140 what would you say was so insistent upon integrating the shadow so one of the things

00:29:28.660 you have to do to have a marriage that's successful is admit what you want and some of that's well

00:29:36.320 what was the freudian stance the hardest motivational the most difficult motivational

00:29:42.060 drives to integrate into a socialized personality is sexuality and aggression well obviously

00:29:49.840 and that produces a real challenge but if you can get it right well it's a huge benefit but

00:29:55.880 very difficult to get right you know when it's part of the whole how do you how is it that you

00:30:01.400 maintain respect for a woman in the light of what would you say the full range of sexual activity

00:30:09.100 well that's a hard that's a very difficult human problem right but it's manageable it's just it

00:30:15.960 requires a certain amount of sophistication so and it's hard but it's it's not nearly as 0.60

00:30:25.840 heart is the alternative so well one of my questions was when when men and women so separately

00:30:31.900 when they're looking for someone what qualities for should they look for and I think like one of

00:30:38.660 the mistakes young people make is people can be insanely interesting right in all sorts of

00:30:43.500 different ways and they can have like you said this kind of mother virgin personality and then

00:30:48.460 they can have this like whore personality as well and having this range makes them interesting 0.52

00:30:55.340 keeping your like getting with somebody interesting is how you keep this relationship going yeah so 0.70

00:31:01.240 for young men looking for someone thinking that they need this ideal person yeah what they need

00:31:07.300 is it's too narrow with range yeah well that's part of maturity is that well and that's part

00:31:12.520 of subduing the world so god tells adam to subdue the world essentially you know and all the eco

00:31:18.540 freaks think that means you know rape and pillage mother earth it doesn't what it means it means

00:31:23.020 everything in its proper place everything properly categorized it's part of the action of logos and

00:31:29.800 what you do in a good relationship is you put everything in its place

00:31:33.020 right so there's a time for virgin mother and there's the time there's the time for you know

00:31:38.660 sexual licentiousness and everything in its proper place that's the crucial issue same with

00:31:46.160 aggression it's not that it's to be repressed it's that it's to be subdued it's to be put

00:31:52.500 intellect is the same thing so milton characterized lucifer as intellect gone wrong and intellect's

00:32:01.080 a great gift it's a great talent and it is god given in that's the simplest way to think about

00:32:06.600 it many ways because it's highly genetically determined highly now no one likes that it's

00:32:12.420 no wonder because it's a rather dismal fact of life but so it's a gift now you might say well

00:32:19.800 how can the world be a fair place if some people are given this great gift of intellect and others

00:32:24.240 aren't and and the range of people in terms of their intelligences it's it's staggering it's

00:32:30.480 staggering you know like i've tested people on iq tests who have iqs of say 80 which is about where

00:32:37.060 cognitively impaired starts from the perspective of the definition of such things and

00:32:44.400 you you just can't imagine what if you're literate you can't imagine what someone with an iq of 80

00:32:51.480 doesn't know they wouldn't be able to name the world's oceans that's for sure they certainly

00:32:58.400 wouldn't be able to if you gave them a globe where the continents were distinguished from

00:33:03.700 the water they wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between the water and the continents

00:33:06.760 so and that's 10 it's more than that it's about 10 of the population and so anyways how do the

00:33:19.620 cosmic scales balance given that some people have an iq of 150 and some people have an iq of 70

00:33:25.260 massive difference well partly along with intellect comes pride and the probability of it going wrong

00:33:33.100 and there's nothing there's no one more narcissistic than someone who's smart and if you

00:33:39.180 are smart that's a real temptation it's a real temptation can make you bitter as hell the most

00:33:44.260 bitter people are the smart people who aren't successful because they feel that their yeah

00:33:50.260 their shining light wasn't given due course and that the world should fall at their feet and 0.98

00:33:54.620 didn't those are dislikable people oh unbelievable that's comic book guy on the simpsons like they

00:33:59.400 they nailed it with him you know he is smart but that's not enough and you know so the way the

00:34:07.460 world works you don't get a gift without a corresponding temptation and intellect is

00:34:14.260 certainly it has the same characteristic you can go very spectacularly wrong if you're smart

00:34:20.560 and it's pride that does that so now i don't remember why we were talking about that in

00:34:26.760 relationship to dating i don't remember why we were talking about that relationship to dating

00:34:31.460 either but maybe it's not important we were we were on the who to look for yeah but oh yeah we

00:34:38.680 were talking about range we're talking about range well one of the things that happens and i still

00:34:43.440 don't know how we got into intelligence one of the things that happens as you mature is that

00:34:47.920 your personality variability increases right so maybe you have a set point

00:34:56.460 you're extroverted and when you're a kid if you're extroverted you're always extroverted

00:35:00.360 you're extroverted at a funeral but as you mature you're able to be introverted when the situation

00:35:06.280 demands it right and everyone can do that like i had lots of introverts in my clinical practice

00:35:10.920 who became very successful in business and they became they learned to be extroverted they still

00:35:16.920 weren't extroverted by temperament a lot of social activity still tired them out but they'd learned

00:35:23.280 the social skills step by step and so they were still temperamentally extroverted but when this

00:35:28.040 situation required an extroverted response you know they had it and and one of the things that

00:35:33.400 you do want in a mate this is a sign of sophistication is that they can be the person

00:35:37.720 that the situation demands that doesn't mean they blow in the wind right that's not the same thing

00:35:42.020 is not having character it's adaptive flexibility in fact one of the identifying hallmarks of

00:35:47.780 personality pathology so that would be the personality disorders is that someone with

00:35:51.720 a personality disorder is the same person all the time oh that's creepy right yeah yeah you don't

00:36:00.340 want you don't want people adjusting their personality and like morphing into somebody

00:36:04.600 else depending on who they talk to because that's lying right but the ability to read the room

00:36:09.140 yeah wow some people don't have yeah well and you can well and that is a hallmark of

00:36:13.860 that's a hallmark of maturation because it's a hallmark of the unfolding of character even

00:36:19.820 if you put yourself in new situations constantly new genes turn on and code for new physiological

00:36:27.680 structures like it isn't only that you learn you do learn because you absorb more information but

00:36:33.220 you also change you also change physiologically by forcing yourself enticing yourself into a

00:36:42.120 multitude of situations you increase your adaptive flexibility now in terms of who you look for in a

00:36:47.100 partner it's it is important my clinical experience certainly taught me that it's very difficult to

00:36:53.640 produce sexual interest if that's lacking right that's number one well it has that's like a gift

00:37:01.200 i don't know if it's number one but i would say it's it it isn't going to work without it and it

00:37:07.580 isn't doesn't look to me like it's something that you can nurture because maybe you'll find someone

00:37:11.540 you really like and they're your best friend and you wish you were sexually attracted to them

00:37:14.780 you think maybe that'll come with time my experience i think i was agnostic about that

00:37:21.280 because an optimist would hope that that would be possible but my experience was watching my clients

00:37:26.640 try that no it didn't work and so you need a modicum of mutual physical interest and maybe

00:37:36.280 more than a modicum um intense would be good you know you the honesty of the person is

00:37:43.820 yeah that's i don't think there's anything more important than whether or not the person you're

00:37:49.000 with is doing their best to act out and tell you the truth yeah that's because no long-term

00:37:56.560 relationship can survive without trust and trust is dependent on honesty so that's a that's a

00:38:01.960 major you can get a long ways with very difficult problems if you're willing to communicate

00:38:08.080 genuinely could we test could we put that into the dating app somehow and yeah oh that's there

00:38:15.640 honesty humility dimensions the hexagon personality model tests honesty humility and it's probably

00:38:21.460 the opposite of the dark tetrad great so what happened when people built personality models

00:38:28.420 is they got rid of all the evaluative words like good and evil or even good and bad anything that

00:38:34.000 looked like a value judgment and then they discovered a five-dimensional structure the

00:38:38.080 five-dimensional structure that characterizes personality and then that's been broken down

00:38:42.780 into some variance like in understand myself we offer people two subcategories of each major

00:38:49.520 trait we called them aspects but the evaluative words actually do index temperamental variability

00:38:57.660 in fact they might be the primary index of important temperamental variability and they

00:39:02.020 were taken out of the models why they snuck well because if you kept all the evaluative words in

00:39:07.620 the models it collapsed into a single dimension when you did the statistical analysis oh i see

00:39:13.140 okay so everyone who was honest would answer well and then the the other thing is the the uh the

00:39:19.040 psych the psychologists who built the personality models wanted them to be value free and there's

00:39:26.340 some utility in that because a scientific a set of scientific descriptors should in principle be

00:39:32.420 value free now whether it's possible to have a value free index of human temperament that's a

00:39:36.960 different question but it's it it's possible in part like you can see that there's a normal

00:39:42.080 distribution of agreeableness and you can't say that it's ethically better to be agreeable than

00:39:46.940 to be disagreeable they have positive elements and negative elements now i think you can say

00:39:53.340 that it's worse to be a liar than to tell the truth okay so imagine anything that has that

00:39:59.620 strictly moral dimension has been parsed out well the problem with that is that it decreased the

00:40:06.740 overlap between personality and psychopathology because psychopathological people are often

00:40:13.340 narcissistic and machiavellian and psychopathic and now you've taken that out of the descriptive

00:40:17.360 network so that decreases the way that you can use personality to understand psychopathology

00:40:22.680 and then it opened up investigation into personality dimensions that weren't captured

00:40:29.320 in the big five model and that turned out to be honesty humility that's part of the hexagon model

00:40:34.420 which is six dimensions or i think the opposite of that which is the dark tetrad

00:40:39.700 interesting proclivities right and so that would be honest reliable humble on one end and prideful

00:40:47.980 narcissistic arrogant machiavellian on the other do you think we can get people to answer questions

00:40:54.420 that show that and they would yes why wouldn't you just lie about because i've developed tests

00:40:59.420 that make it impossible for people to lie great yeah yeah yeah we've used those to identify

00:41:05.520 narcissists and people with personality disorders and they work now that hasn't been extensively

00:41:13.820 tested but but and that's a flaw but it's been tested how much has it been tested there's no

00:41:24.960 better current alternative that's how well it's being tested so and there are ways the other thing

00:41:30.260 you got to understand too is that if you're narcissistic you tend to think that it's a virtue

00:41:35.720 yeah and it's also not that easy to lie consistently it takes a lot of effort and you have to be

00:41:41.240 motivated now it turns out if you tell smart people that their personality tests are going

00:41:47.760 to be used to evaluate their suitability for a job they tilt them in the direction of

00:41:53.380 conscientiousness and low neuroticism which is exactly what they should do because those are

00:41:57.200 the best predictors and the it collapses the five-dimensional structure so people can fake

00:42:03.500 good and you can imagine that more intelligent people can fake good better and so that's a

00:42:09.000 problem when you're trying to evaluate people using self-reports for employment suitability

00:42:14.200 we developed a unfakeable big five that circumvents that problem it's got some other

00:42:19.260 prices you have to pay for that but it does work we paid people to cheat the unfakeable big five

00:42:27.380 i did that work with jacob hirsch and they couldn't do it they could do it a bit but not

00:42:31.280 nearly as much as they could with the self-records yeah yeah and then daniel higgins and i worked out

00:42:37.040 some tests that they were forced choice tests essentially you have to admit to one of two bad

00:42:43.640 things and it's not obvious at all which of them is worse and if it's only one comparison

00:42:49.400 then it probably doesn't make any difference but if i know maybe i have 20 paired questions i could

00:42:57.420 ask you and one answer is clearly more associated with long-term psychopathology than the other

00:43:04.180 even though both are negative and you answer all the questions in a way that indicates

00:43:08.740 the worst choice then i can be reasonably certain that you know i've got you right and so that's

00:43:16.380 basically how we set up the tests so they're very difficult to fake i don't think it's been a long

00:43:22.900 time since i looked at the tests it isn't obvious to me that i could fake them if i came across them

00:43:29.360 now because both of the choices for example in the force choice the other i think one of the

00:43:34.280 things we did if i remember correctly is we have five bad choices and we know which which order

00:43:39.760 they're in and you have to put them in order right right and then if you put if you prioritize the

00:43:45.240 wrong one well that's costly if you do it repeatedly across a lot of different questions

00:43:49.240 but yes we think we can identify the narcissists and the psychopaths and the machiavellians and the

00:43:55.780 and the liars be really helpful on a dating app it might be the most important thing yes yeah by

00:44:03.700 the way just so everybody knows too and the women should really know this those are the men who

00:44:07.560 engage in short-term mating strategies that the clinical data on that are very clear so well sex

00:44:13.880 is just for fun it's like yeah says the psychopath right and then part of the reason for that is

00:44:21.320 because that is how the psychopath operates and that's clearly there's no dispute about that in

00:44:26.500 the psychological literature i'm not making this up that's been well studied like the we know for

00:44:32.260 example that one of the things that characterizes children with a pronounced and relatively permanent

00:44:37.100 antisocial bent is that they have sex earlier that's been documented for decades decades decades

00:44:43.260 yeah what's a short-term mating strategy well antisocial behavior is a short-term strategy it's 0.92

00:44:49.140 like i'm going to get whatever i can from you now and from me and to hell with the consequences

00:44:54.220 it's like the definition of it's like the definition of criminal predation so it's this 0.55

00:45:00.800 isn't a surprise it's just a logical consequence of the behavioral pattern you know what a criminal 0.72

00:45:06.280 does is take advantage now despite the long term the definition of criminal behavior and so women

00:45:12.860 should know this it's like if the guy's all about well you know we're here for a good time not a

00:45:17.560 long time oh he's such fun it's like yeah no he's actually not that much fun and you're you're well 0.88

00:45:25.520 here's another thing we know young women are much more likely to be fooled by narcissistic psychopaths

00:45:30.300 than older women well why because they're well they can use well exactly they don't understand

00:45:36.100 that people can be malevolent they confuse that malevolence with charm and you can understand

00:45:41.300 that because like maybe a woman has a very agreeable guy that'd be a friend usually and 0.86

00:45:47.100 she doesn't find him that attractive right and so then she finds someone disagreeable who's not

00:45:51.900 disagreeable because he's got integrity of character but because he's a psychopath yeah but 0.97

00:45:56.420 that i don't give a flying fuck about anyone else like there's a certain confidence that 0.94

00:46:02.420 definitely mimics that that mimics it's not confidence it's false confidence it's certainly 0.69

00:46:09.740 not competence but you know if you're competent and secure you don't care what other people think

00:46:15.440 but that doesn't mean that if you don't care about what other people think you're confident

00:46:19.700 and competent yeah right but they can easily be confused right very easily this is partly why

00:46:25.440 women need to say no whenever they have the opportunity to it's a great test and it's also 0.99

00:46:31.060 i talked to tammy a lot about this i think that's the primary way that women obtain status 0.69

00:46:35.300 is saying no yeah yeah yeah well imagine you have women they're being chased by high quality guys 0.99

00:46:41.900 say and they have enough gall to say no yeah it's because they're above them right that's 0.89

00:46:48.420 what's up with her i'm so charming how can she say no to me how dare she say no to me

00:46:52.920 yeah definitely yeah yeah this i do believe the fundamental status marker i think men believe

00:47:00.160 this i'm certain of it i mean i remember you know having conversations with my teenage friends

00:47:05.240 you know when we're all enamored of women left right and center it's certainly the case that

00:47:10.740 the women who said no they were clearly you know there were the prudes who said no that's not the 0.86

00:47:18.100 same thing but there then there were the women or girls i guess in this case who were you know

00:47:23.780 attractive and confident who just kind of you know and that's men or men any men with sense are not

00:47:31.740 only looking for that but immediately attracted by it and if it puts them off like for the girls

00:47:36.980 who are listening if a man is put off by the fact that you say no you should get the hell away from

00:47:41.240 him as fast as you possibly can because he doesn't care in the least for you he doesn't find you

00:47:45.780 interesting so that's really good for young people to hear well the other thing too that women should

00:47:53.800 know is that if a man sleeps with you and and he doesn't respect you he the moment he's finished

00:47:59.240 with you he will have nothing but contempt for you and girls are often broken-hearted let's say

00:48:04.500 because they've slept with some guy and then he doesn't call them it's like i can tell you that

00:48:08.920 that guy finished in bed the first thing he wanted to do was get the hell out of there as fast as

00:48:13.700 possible because it's sexual satiation and immediate disgust contempt and shame immediate

00:48:19.120 immediate that's not good you don't want to be the girl on the receiving end of that

00:48:25.140 there's nothing about that that's good no people should hear that yep yeah and you do i mean i know

00:48:34.500 that i ran into a lot of people that i now know were psychopaths as a young woman for sure and

00:48:41.120 that's partly i think because i'm extroverted and so but also because i'm female and so the

00:48:46.720 extroverts are attractive and it is the extroverts that don't really care about anything that seem

00:48:51.660 confident that are attractive but if you're a 21 year old guy and you're like that the temptation

00:48:58.780 of a disagreeable extrovert is to be narcissistic right so every personality constellation has its

00:49:04.880 associated pathologies so the pathology of extroversion is mania the pathology of disagreeable

00:49:12.120 extroversion is narcissism right the pathology of introversion is depression in combination with

00:49:17.900 neuroticism so there isn't an attribute that you get without a corresponding temptation

00:49:22.380 while extroverts are interesting and enthusiastic and dominant in social situations and disagreeable

00:49:30.240 people are pretty damn good at negotiating on their own behalf but disagreeable extroverts can

00:49:34.000 become narcissistic now the problem is they're attractive so you know it's a tough it's a tough

00:49:40.520 conscientious can help yeah and you can get the people that aren't narcissists that are also

00:49:46.320 disagreeable and extroverted definitely those people are great yeah right right the narcissistic

00:49:51.200 ones yeah well those are sort of like the tameable monsters the beauty and the beast fantasy

00:49:55.220 right because the beast is obviously disagreeable i mean obviously and

00:50:01.060 well and to rampage around is an extroverted sort of thing i mean nobody cares about the

00:50:07.480 beast who hides in the back of his cave so yeah tameable tameable beast is a good

00:50:14.640 it's hard though it's hard it's a hard needle to thread and that's you know the problem that 0.94

00:50:19.500 women face let's take a bit of a different direction given we're at the beginning of a

00:50:24.560 new year um i thought maybe you had some kind of tangible advice for people in making a new year

00:50:33.100 plan so well the most tangible advice what should they do in order to think about the next year

00:50:39.540 well the most tangible advice the most practical thing for people to do is to do the future

00:50:44.980 authoring program because it lays out what to do in great detail and you can do it badly and quickly

00:50:50.660 and it'll still help you a lot but so you can go to self-authoring and do the future authoring

00:50:56.080 program and it helps you lay out a vision and people what we do to adapt to the uncertainty

00:51:01.360 of the future is we lay a vision on it we lay a vision on the chaos and we pursue the vision

00:51:06.500 right and so it's exactly what you do when you're navigating a boat right you have a destination in

00:51:13.000 mind and the waves rise and there's all sorts of variability but use the destination as the

00:51:18.100 orienting point like the north star and you calibrate your perceptions and your emotions

00:51:23.160 in relationship to the goal that's how we navigate and we're navigating creatures when we say we we

00:51:29.800 know something we don't mean we can describe it explicitly that's what we think we mean when we

00:51:35.820 say we know that isn't what we mean we mean that we have a navigation tool we have an accurate map

00:51:41.020 you need a map and to map accurately you need a destination and there's no difference between

00:51:47.060 specifying a destination and developing a vision and so there's two ways you can develop a vision

00:51:52.580 roughly speaking you can do it by the promptings of conscience or you can do it by the promptings

00:51:59.080 of calling it's like the interaction between those two things that's like divine providence 0.99

00:52:03.980 so conscience would say to you here's a bunch of stupid things you're doing that you could stop 0.99

00:52:11.420 doing that would improve your life now conscience can be too harsh a master right so you have to 0.99

00:52:18.160 enter into a dialogue with your conscience and you may have to enter into a relationship with it

00:52:23.040 like pinocchio and jiminy because jiminy is just a tramp when he starts like he has to learn too

00:52:30.580 so you have to have a dialogue with your conscience so that it isn't a tyrant or or a pushover right

00:52:36.660 but your conscience can tell you where there are things in your life that aren't going well and

00:52:42.160 you can use those as motivation to change i'd like for example when i decided to start stop

00:52:48.480 drinking when i was 27 or thereabouts part of the reason for that there were two reasons one was a

00:52:56.080 calling reason one was a conscience reason the conscience reason was i looked at my life and i

00:53:00.320 thought well when do i do things i regret when i'm drinking well do you want to have a life

00:53:08.040 characterized by regret as you start climbing up the professional ladder and the consequences

00:53:13.000 become more and more dire and the answer was well and i established a more permanent relationship

00:53:18.020 with tammy and you know we were thinking about having kids it's like well do i want that or to

00:53:23.100 do what i rather have a life where i wasn't doing stupid things that i regret it well and when i

00:53:29.220 quit drinking i've i didn't stop doing everything i regretted but i stopped doing like 90 of things

00:53:35.780 i regretted yeah so that and that's that's very true for people who drink period most a tremendous

00:53:43.220 amount of stupidity is alcohol fueled so that was the conscience and the calling end was i couldn't

00:53:49.680 write when i was hungover it was impossible i couldn't make quality i wasn't operating at peak 0.96

00:53:55.340 efficiency and maybe that's fine if if you don't care but i one of the things that really motivated

00:54:01.280 me and that's continued to motivate me ever since is i'm very curious about how much i can do in the

00:54:08.280 shortest possible period of time that's fun and so if anything gets in the way it's like well

00:54:14.440 it's got to go that's sacrifice that's the sacrifice that pleases god to dispense with

00:54:20.900 the lesser to facilitate movement towards the greater well so if you're trying to develop a

00:54:28.040 vision well you can start with that and in the future authoring program we walk people through

00:54:32.460 a series of questions because the real question is well how do you want your life to proceed

00:54:36.520 but that's pretty generic and if you're not accustomed to self-reflection you haven't been

00:54:44.320 socialized so that you're self-reflective you don't even know where to start you know people

00:54:48.980 will say well what do you what do you want to do with your i don't know well that's not a very good

00:54:54.000 answer it means you're vague as hell but it may be true so you can ask yourself more specific

00:55:00.680 questions where's the value in your friendships and how could you foster that you know and those

00:55:07.360 are hard questions like maybe you have friends that aren't that good for you you know it's highly

00:55:12.260 probable you know and you might think well you know they're my longest term friend and i've i've

00:55:16.880 been around with them forever and the answer is well if they're aiming down man and if they're

00:55:22.340 the sort of people who will pull you down when you start to move up you are not doing them any

00:55:27.040 favors by allowing them to get away with that so don't be thinking that you know you can put up

00:55:31.700 with someone indefinitely just because you have had a long-term relationship with them and that

00:55:35.880 doesn't mean you shouldn't be loyal the question is loyalty to what if you're facilitating misbehavior 0.99

00:55:42.500 on the part of someone you love that's not loyalty right at some point loyal is like fuck you i've 0.99

00:55:48.580 had enough and you better change because you're headed in a bad direction and i'm not going to 0.99

00:55:53.440 be around to watch it and that's love say that if it's true so what do you want from your friends

00:56:00.480 friends and what can you give them like so the real question is it's like who's the right person

00:56:07.880 for me when you're thinking about dating isn't the right question it's like what can i offer

00:56:12.980 to people is the right question if you answered that question you'd have no problem with dating

00:56:17.660 right okay so it's just backwards but so how how how would you want your friendships to be

00:56:23.380 constituted your relationships with your family your mother did a stellar job of this about 20

00:56:27.380 years ago she decided she was going to clean up her relationships with her sisters her and her

00:56:32.720 brother and her dad and she did that first by taking a look at what she was bringing to the

00:56:38.480 table there was trouble it's like you can't fix someone else's trouble but you can certainly 0.98

00:56:44.980 figure out what you're doing that's stupid and what she was primarily doing that was causing 0.97

00:56:51.240 her trouble was insisting on her point of view and she wanted to she was the youngest kid in 0.99

00:56:56.820 the family she had reason to want her viewpoint to be appreciated but she just let that go she

00:57:03.580 didn't put her viewpoint forward anymore and then her sisters started to talk to her and tell her

00:57:08.800 what was going on and she listened and then she got to know them and eventually she got to say

00:57:14.080 something now and then that they would listen to you know and and she straightened that right up

00:57:19.760 so you can do that with your family you have to have a vision you know how would you like your

00:57:24.080 family affairs to lay themselves out and where do you want your career to go and what do you how

00:57:31.080 are you going to educate yourself and how are you going to take care of yourself mentally and

00:57:34.120 physically and you have to ask yourself this question the question is very straightforward

00:57:38.800 if you could have what you wanted what would it be well people rarely ask themselves that question

00:57:47.760 and they bloody well rarely stick around for the answer they also limit themselves oh terribly it's

00:57:53.500 amazing it's amazing what you can do with a plan and you could say what do i want and i'd say

00:57:59.960 shoot high oh yeah because it's crazy once you put it on paper and you think about it you start

00:58:06.100 devote your attention yeah you start recognizing opportunity that leads in that direction so you

00:58:10.860 might as well shoot high and see what happens yeah well this idea there's a kind of a new age

00:58:16.120 idea of manifesting but there's a there's a core of truth in it because the way your perceptual

00:58:22.300 systems are set up is that once you specify a target you preferentially attend to the world

00:58:28.980 in a manner that makes the objects that exist in accordance with that target much more salient

00:58:34.580 that's how you navigate you know if you're going to walk from here to the next yard what's going

00:58:42.060 to stand out for you are the things you have to walk around right because otherwise you won't

00:58:46.360 get there well that's everything is like that once you set a goal as soon as you set a goal

00:58:51.860 the world lays itself out for you pathways forward facilitators and obstacles and everything else

00:58:58.280 that's irrelevant right right that's how the perceptual and emotional systems work so and

00:59:04.220 then you might say well how do they work if you have no goal and the answer is well they're thrown

00:59:07.740 into chaos there's too many choices there's no direction you're anxious you and you're confused

00:59:12.700 well that's not a good way of of propagating yourself along the pathway you know and with

00:59:19.420 regards to the difficulty of the goal there's rules for that too if you have a child you love

00:59:25.500 you and you give them a task you want to set them up for success which means they have some

00:59:31.540 probability of attaining the goal compared to the effort exerted the animal literature seems to

00:59:39.880 indicate for example that if you pair animals together to play the loser animal has to win a

00:59:47.900 third of the time so one of the things you could say is like a high-end goal for you might be one

00:59:52.420 where you have a 65 chance of failing right so you don't want it to be a 99.9 chance of failing

01:00:02.020 i mean there might be circumstances well there might be circumstances under which that really

01:00:06.440 high-end goal is worth achieving if the payoff is massive and you can break it up into sub rules

01:00:11.740 where the where the probability of victory is higher but you want to play a fair game with

01:00:17.320 yourself and the game is see there's two games going on at the same time one is can you attain

01:00:22.080 the goal but the other is can you expand your adaptive competence while you're attaining the

01:00:26.880 goal and that's why you don't want to just set a goal that for sure you can hit yeah right because

01:00:32.640 if for sure you can hit it it doesn't stretch you and the goal is to stretch plus to climb

01:00:37.160 and and you don't want to set goals that i mean i said shoot high but for instance like my goal

01:00:43.200 with exercise this year because i've got really sick last year and i haven't been exercising for

01:00:48.000 a long time then i had a pregnancy and my goal for exercising was twice a week for 15 minutes

01:00:54.300 each time right right it was like going from zero to that that would be a huge step in the right

01:00:59.720 direction and then and then i have like after that three times a week for 30 minutes each session

01:01:05.200 so you don't well there's high so you're not going to do a rule there too so imagine that you

01:01:10.340 decide twice a week for 15 minutes and then it's a month and you didn't do it so you don't say oh 0.95

01:01:17.060 i'm an idiot and i'm a failure and this will never work you say well how about once a week for 15 0.94

01:01:22.000 minutes and then if that doesn't work it's like how about once a week for 10 minutes like well 0.99

01:01:26.160 seriously yeah there's a rule and the rule is aim at the goal in case of failure either discipline

01:01:32.440 yourself because maybe there's some things you can sort out or scale the goal back somewhat

01:01:36.440 until you do it well this is a very this is humility that's humility scale the goal back

01:01:43.760 till you do it that's humility because that's actually taking yourself into account as you are

01:01:48.500 and that can be bitter especially if you're trying to develop in an area where you're weak

01:01:53.360 because you may have to start very low like exercise once a week for 10 minutes yeah

01:01:58.720 yeah yeah well i i dealt with an old guy he was about 83 at one point and he had a rough life

01:02:06.000 man he had fallen off a ladder and broke his neck and he was permanently fused in a very awkward

01:02:12.300 and uncomfortable position right and he was in chronic pain and and he was old and he couldn't

01:02:16.220 do much and so he kind of had it he was laying in bed depressed out of his mind and he he would

01:02:21.940 have just if maid would have been available he would have taken it in a second like all depressed

01:02:27.440 people by the way so what was what we what did we do for him god i think we started with

01:02:36.260 i think i started with can you look at a magazine for 30 seconds ah and then the next step was

01:02:46.400 can you sit up in bed but by two weeks we had him walking up and down the hallway

01:02:52.100 you know like his life was never going to be stellar but even the reason i'm using him as

01:02:58.040 an example is because i don't care how impaired you are there's something that you could do that

01:03:06.340 is a slight improvement over where you're at and you might think oh my god it's so depressing to

01:03:11.980 consider that i have to start that slow it's like fair enough but but this is where another fact of

01:03:18.120 life comes into play progress tends not to be linear it tends to be curvilinear like this

01:03:24.320 almost exponential or geometric and so you can start pretty damn minimally and you'll speed up

01:03:32.880 if you're consistent you'll speed up pretty rapidly so you don't have to worry about having to start 0.98

01:03:37.940 like a fool this is why jung said the fool is the precursor to the savior you have to allow 1.00

01:03:45.220 yourself to be the kind of idiot that you actually are to begin with this is something you need to 1.00

01:03:50.600 know when you're imagine you're trying to what would you say train your partner to do the dishes 1.00

01:03:59.420 you know regularly

01:04:01.720 your goal might be they do the dishes immediately after dinner seven nights a week or maybe three

01:04:11.740 because you do it half the time whatever it happens to be and they do a good job well

01:04:16.260 that's not necessarily where to start once badly would be a start and that's a huge start because

01:04:23.600 once is way more than zero yeah way more you know and then you have to be patient and you

01:04:30.340 have to allow the person including yourself to stumble forward stupidly a lot so when i used

01:04:36.940 to counsel my clients for example to go out on dates with their partners they were both they'd 0.79

01:04:43.040 both just hate that idea and then they'd go out and have a miserable time and then they'd come

01:04:48.080 back and trumpet triumphantly the misery of their date so that they never had to do that again

01:04:52.940 and it took a lot of talking to walk through like it's like if you're married you're going to be

01:04:59.800 let's say you're married for 30 years and you could have three dates a week you know three

01:05:04.340 times of intimacy and and close personal relationship a week let's say it's three

01:05:09.580 that's not bad two to three is probably about right so let's say three so it's a hundred a 0.98

01:05:14.040 year it's three thousand over 30 years well if you have to do that stupidly a hundred times

01:05:20.020 as you're practicing it's like it's only a hundred over three thousand it's nothing 0.99

01:05:25.900 it's a tiny fraction of the total so you can stumble forward stupidly and you need to allow

01:05:32.020 your partner that luxury you can teach them slowly and you can reward progress as well as performance

01:05:39.060 good thing to apply to yourself so if you manage to exercise you know once a week for 10 minutes

01:05:49.100 like you give yourself a little pat on the you don't have to go overboard you're not putting

01:05:52.240 the universe look at me yeah yeah yeah well that's that could be a reasonable way of obtaining

01:05:58.300 social support for it yeah we'll see i think i can manage that i hope i can manage that

01:06:06.700 i could really use some exercise um how should people manage jealousy

01:06:13.860 well one of the things you want the first thing i think you probably want to think through is

01:06:19.000 you want a partner that no one else wants

01:06:22.000 definitely not well but you actually have to think that through because the answer could easily be

01:06:31.340 yes like husbands will punish their wives out of dressing attractively they do that all the time

01:06:38.660 and then they're all bitchy because their wives she really let herself go it's like well that's 1.00

01:06:44.220 because you punished her mercilessly every time she looked like any man might take a second glance 1.00

01:06:49.360 at her you stupid bastard and you did that because you're unconscious and jealous and now you're 1.00

01:06:54.800 resentful because your wife listened to you it's a pretty stupid strategy so you have to think like 1.00

01:06:59.600 do you want a partner that other people would find attractive and and there's a possibility 0.99

01:07:05.760 that the answer to that is no and the reason is is because you're insecure and perhaps for valid

01:07:11.260 reasons about whether or not you're actually much of a catch and so then maybe you should do some

01:07:16.740 sorting out about that it's like well let's say you think you're not much of a catch okay there's

01:07:23.320 two possible reasons for that one is you're not much of a catch the other is you're too hard on

01:07:28.920 yourself and it's probably going to be a little of both like maybe you had a hyper critical father

01:07:33.280 for example nothing you ever did was good enough or something or a hyper hyper conservative what

01:07:37.520 about those people i'll give you an example i'm going to talk about this okay jordan's okay with

01:07:42.800 this okay jordan and i first started dating or when i met him i was wearing like short shorts

01:07:47.020 and a crop top because i figure i can only wear a crop top for so long i'm gonna wear it now yeah

01:07:51.860 um and he and then he told me he wanted to marry me and then we got married and everything and

01:07:57.640 about six months into the relationship he kind of just like slightly negged all the like outfits

01:08:03.500 like that yeah so eventually i had no crop tops because i was like if you don't want me to wear

01:08:07.240 it i'm not gonna wear it yeah i like wearing them i don't think there's anything wrong with them

01:08:10.780 yeah but um they're gone yeah and then about six months after that he goes where are your crop

01:08:16.160 tops yeah where are all those clothes I was like you they're gone right anyway so he's reverted 0.87

01:08:21.840 well I do think well I do think that that's actually a place where husbands and wives can

01:08:26.000 negotiate you know like I like buying Tammy clothes and we've I actually like it quite a bit

01:08:31.280 as it turns out and we've had a lot of discussions about what's appropriate what's sexy when and 0.87

01:08:38.020 wear to come to a to a agreement about that now i would say she's less flashy by temperament in 0.99

01:08:45.980 her mode of self-display than you are so you know tammy is more 0.98

01:08:52.040 understated probably because she's less extrovert oh definitely then i'm not understated

01:08:59.580 yeah right right and so and i'm not jealous so that's not been a problem but i like like i'm

01:09:07.120 perfectly happy for her to be attractive now if i was jealous well we can go through the reasons

01:09:13.640 you're not much of a catch you're too hard on yourself so you don't think you're much of a

01:09:17.700 catch the other is your your wife is actually on the prowl yeah yeah right well that all has to be

01:09:22.900 sorted out and she can be on the prowl kind of unconsciously you know and and that's even hard

01:09:30.540 to sort out because to some degree being a bit on the prowl is playful right because you don't

01:09:40.140 want to go to a party where no one flirts at all a good party even among people who are married and

01:09:48.040 happily married is there's an there's an edge but it takes a lot of sophistication to walk that

01:09:53.080 precisely right you have to be awake it's a complicated game yeah and it's also a friendly

01:09:59.980 edge between people yes yeah and it's a friendly edge where everyone is playing yeah and that only

01:10:06.460 works if you have trust in the relationship yes that's right that's right that's right well so

01:10:10.620 there's you know if you're jealous it means if you're jealous there's a lot of ugly things in

01:10:15.720 your relationship and your psyche that need to be sorted out that's the first thing you can be sure

01:10:19.640 of and it the second thing you can be sure of is it's going to be really convenient of you to assume

01:10:24.500 that it's your partner's fault now having said that hey you could start with the a priori

01:10:32.700 presumption that it's 50 your partner's fault probably isn't because if you're the jealous

01:10:37.800 here's another question you can ask yourself if you're jealous have you been jealous in every

01:10:43.680 relationship and if the answer to that is yes it's either well you're either picking them pretty

01:10:47.800 badly they're sport which is your problem anyways or you're the problem yeah all women those women

01:10:55.240 they always make me jealous it's like no sorry buddy that's you now that doesn't mean you could 0.96

01:11:01.820 you could have also been picking women who really don't care much for you and who are sort of with

01:11:06.280 you maybe because you've enticed them into feeling sorry for you and they really are on the lookout

01:11:10.620 for someone else and no wonder like that could easily be the situation yeah yeah but jordan's

01:11:16.300 reverted. Yeah. And so what was the, what was the, what was the agreement? I think I just kind of

01:11:22.660 like, was like, well, if that's what he wants, that's fine. It didn't really bother me that

01:11:27.120 much. It was just like, I don't think that's necessary. Like that was my opinion. I don't

01:11:30.620 think that's necessary. I'm not, well, like saying I'm, you know, no to the crop tops or no to like

01:11:35.700 just certain outfits. I was like, I don't think that's necessary because I don't think I'm going

01:11:39.420 overboard and I'm not looking for anybody. So I think that's not necessary, but if that makes

01:11:44.820 you uncomfortable then okay well that was kind of my opinion no but i think that's right i think

01:11:49.580 he's reverted so now you also you also like assuming that your husband is you know vaguely

01:11:54.980 reasonable you don't want to dress in a manner that makes him uncomfortable yeah now you have

01:11:59.700 to sort out whether that's reasonable like with your mom if she asks me what i think of something

01:12:05.700 she's wearing i just tell her now i really like her sense of style and so the probability that

01:12:10.300 i'm going to be happy with what she's wearing is quite high but it's not always that the case and

01:12:15.880 you could say well i could have just always said it was wonderful but well then that compromises

01:12:20.800 your word it also makes it impossible for me to trust for her to trust me in in my discussion of

01:12:26.440 what she's wearing and it's also see a man will also tell a woman oh you look great and everything

01:12:32.120 honey and what he means by that is he could mean a bit like i think you're sexy so what difference

01:12:37.120 does it make but it could also mean i don't well i don't really want to pay any attention to your

01:12:40.680 clothes and so i wish you'd shut up and if i give you a compliment maybe you won't ask me to think

01:12:45.840 anymore right and that's not helpful because actually how your partner dresses like it's not 0.56

01:12:52.240 the most important thing in life by any stretch of the imagination but it's not nothing and it

01:12:56.920 also can be fun very fun in fact so it's one of the things that adds variation to your relationship

01:13:04.860 so that's why you can't just think the whole fashion world is like pointless and shallow

01:13:11.160 even though it is pointless and shallow it's not you know well there's an aspect of it if it's

01:13:16.280 raised to the highest place it becomes pointless and shallow but in its place it's like well why

01:13:23.160 not just wear a sack also people treat you completely differently depending on what clothes

01:13:28.900 you wear so you might as well use that to your advantage depending on what you want to get out

01:13:33.040 of people like what are you looking for well this is especially true in things like job interviews

01:13:38.640 it's like you're going to put your best foot forward or not it's like learn how to wear a

01:13:42.640 suit you dimwit well i don't want to work for someone who judges me on my appearance it's like 0.99

01:13:48.040 well good then be a slob and cover yourself with cheeto dust and live in the basement where you 1.00

01:13:53.000 don't see anyone and nurse delusions of your moral superiority that sounds like fun you could do that 1.00

01:14:00.680 or buy a suit you dimwit you know it's like really there's just no excuse for that and there's a 0.94

01:14:07.280 tremendous amount of intellectual it's like the people who say i don't have time for small talk 0.98

01:14:12.360 it's like well people aren't going to bear their hearts to you the first second they meet you 0.99

01:14:16.760 they're going to tell you something trivial to see if you're so stupid you can't even respond to that 0.99

01:14:20.940 and you know i don't have time for small talk generally means i have no social skills 0.99

01:14:25.720 and so why of course people aren't going to engage now it's a little more complicated because

01:14:30.400 people high in openness want to move to a discussion of ideas and so they're not interested

01:14:35.540 in just like local gossip yeah so that's a complicating factor but that aside small talk

01:14:41.920 has its place it's like you got to check each other out a bit before you talk about anything

01:14:47.600 where there's a consequence do you think just going back to a different area of a conversation

01:14:52.380 do you think we could make a course for peterson academy that taught like specific to people that

01:14:58.100 taught introverts to be extroverted in certain situations because you said you had clients that

01:15:03.100 you taught to be extroverted oh definitely oh i bet that would be really helpful for people

01:15:06.820 and agreeable people how to be disagreeable we should do that in a course well that could be

01:15:12.900 that could be incredibly helpful well that would be something if we did that in a course what we

01:15:16.860 should probably do is find someone who's agreeable and wants to be more disagreeable and train them

01:15:23.460 and film it and edit it that's a way more effective way of doing that so you think you

01:15:28.520 could train agreeableness to be more no i know i know i can because i did it lots look people come

01:15:34.500 to therapy for a variety of reasons sometimes it's because they're in a life situation that's

01:15:40.160 very very complex and they need to think their way through it sometimes it's because they're

01:15:45.620 suffering from a surfeit of negative emotion anxiety or depression but the third most common

01:15:50.940 rush rationale is for assertive assertiveness training yeah it's not assertiveness disagreeableness

01:16:00.640 okay yeah well and basically what it is in some ways it's negotiating strategy yeah you know and

01:16:06.300 what i taught a lot of my clients a lot of my clients tripled their income in two or three

01:16:10.640 years because we put together a plan and part of that was how to position yourself so you can be

01:16:16.340 disagreeable to position yourself to properly be disagreeable you have to position yourself

01:16:21.700 so that you know when to say no and so that you do and can say no so like if you're my boss

01:16:29.980 and i need something from you to continue working happily for you which should be my aim

01:16:35.860 i have to have i have to be confident enough when i approach you to put forward my case

01:16:44.200 without fear well so that means at minimum like if you came to me and said well you want to work

01:16:50.580 to get a raise from your boss and you're afraid of it so now well it's a strategy it's okay

01:16:56.020 bring your cv next week let's take a look well i don't want to it's full of holes it's like yeah

01:17:01.960 that's your life full of holes your life is full of holes so you have no foundation to stand on

01:17:07.500 so you can't negotiate so bring your cv and we'll go through it and we'll see what holes are

01:17:12.960 rectifiable maybe that'll take a year or two years right because you're afraid you can't find another

01:17:18.860 job as good as the one you have you think it was a fluke that you got this job because you're kind

01:17:23.400 of underqualified you don't know how to advertise your skills you don't even know how to make a case

01:17:28.000 for yourself so you're terrified of going to talk to your boss well all that has to be like

01:17:32.820 straightened out that is maybe you should be terrified right well exactly now people are

01:17:38.440 often more terrified than they should be because most look bosses if they have any sense are just

01:17:47.660 as afraid of losing good employees as the employees of losing their job and if your boss isn't afraid

01:17:52.920 of losing you and you're good it's time to find a new boss right that's just a sign you're in a

01:17:57.180 counterproductive place so it's not like you the boss has all the playing cards it's just not true

01:18:02.500 like and certainly that's definitely true oh definitely and managers like people who go to

01:18:07.940 job interviews are terrified generally but the people who are doing the interviews are even more

01:18:13.100 terrified if they have any sense because they know perfectly well that if they hire a dud they're

01:18:17.460 stuck with them like forever especially in a mid-level corporation and or in canada and their

01:18:21.360 life or in canada or the and their life can just be hell so you there's you hold plenty if you're

01:18:27.340 a good employee you hold plenty of cards and so what i would do with my clients is first of all

01:18:31.260 it's like okay are you in a bargaining position and that might be do you have enough are you

01:18:36.640 competent are you demonstrably competent does your boss know you're competent do you have the

01:18:42.440 confidence to go along with that and have you advertised yourself in a manner that's commensurate

01:18:46.960 with your competence well probably not so we'd sort all that out and then it's like well then

01:18:52.600 what do you want and more than that what are you offering like if you go to someone who's halfway

01:18:58.000 reasonable and you say look um I'd like to be wholeheartedly able to donate 25% more effort

01:19:07.860 to my job here's what I've done already and here are the impediments you know I have to have another

01:19:13.360 job because I'm not making enough and also when I work for you in such and such way I don't get

01:19:19.340 any credit for it and this is demoralizing me and so what I want is a 15% raise with the possibility

01:19:25.020 of a 25 raise three years down the road and here's what i'm willing to offer in return and

01:19:30.520 this is why it's to your advantage well that's the case you want it you don't go in there and think i

01:19:36.480 say i think i deserve a raise it's like everyone wants a raise buddy that's not a strategy right

01:19:45.100 right so one of the things that when you teach someone to be assertive to be say more disagreeable

01:19:52.100 is you're putting them in a position to negotiate to say no and and what you want to have in your

01:19:56.600 back pocket with any discussion you have with uh with a uh like a supervisor is your final option

01:20:05.640 is to say say an aura man i've got other options if you don't have other options you're in no place

01:20:11.360 to negotiate for a raise yeah if you have no other options you're being paid as much as you deserve

01:20:15.660 right exactly that's why you settled for it to begin with so you want to put yourself in a

01:20:21.200 position where you have options this is i've listened to you for so long that this is how i

01:20:26.140 negotiate with you yeah good yeah good right right well that's worked yeah well look when we

01:20:31.640 negotiated our businesses both you and julian did the same thing in the major negotiation you went

01:20:38.160 through first you know you were very interested in peterson academy but what i wanted to hear

01:20:42.980 from you is okay you're interested in peterson academy all right so i want you to do like an

01:20:48.200 outstanding job okay well what's the price and so what i want to hear from you is under what

01:20:55.780 conditions are you willing to do a stellar job i don't want some snow job i want to know

01:21:01.520 and i want to know it for decades it's like no no i want you maximally motivated now if you're

01:21:07.380 demanding so much that it would decrease my motivation well then i have to tell you that

01:21:11.360 like no i can't offer you that because then if you had pushed too hard all this is especially

01:21:18.500 true if you're dealing with people that have options so let's say you got one over me in

01:21:23.220 the negotiation and it turned out that it was 75 for you so to speak and 25 for me well all that

01:21:29.680 would happen is i deprioritize that endeavor well that's not helpful like during that negotiation i

01:21:34.640 wanted you with both feet in right absolutely given everything else you're doing exactly and

01:21:40.640 anytime you're negotiating with someone who has options you have to think you don't you're not

01:21:44.660 thinking how do i get the best possible deal no or or you reconstrue what best possible deal means

01:21:50.100 if you're dealing with someone who's competent best deal is they'll pay attention right so you

01:21:55.040 got to think of it from their perspective if i was in their shoes so i don't remember exactly

01:21:59.700 what we negotiated with peterson academy i think you own the majority 55 right right so that puts

01:22:05.040 the decision making responsibility on your shoulders now you know a cynic would say well 0.99

01:22:10.500 now you have the power well that's stupid because if you're using power well first of all you're 0.98

01:22:15.080 not going to get very far with me because i'll just go do something else but also the right way 0.98

01:22:20.520 of thinking about that is no no you have the responsibility and that means i can go off and

01:22:25.280 do other things not that i'm not attending but that i yeah you know so and i would rather that

01:22:30.420 this was your baby fundamentally like well how is that not useful to me well i want to micromanage

01:22:35.720 everything it's like well if i want to micromanage everything why am i going to partner with you

01:22:39.960 yeah that's another thing for people who are listening if you're a micromanager you're

01:22:44.260 you're either bent in your perception of value or you're dealing with the wrong people

01:22:48.680 yeah you have to micromanage someone that's the wrong person yeah you want to be around people

01:22:55.940 you think oh you did a great you want to think oh you did really if you're fortunate you think oh

01:23:01.440 you did a way better job on that than I would have then you know you got the right person man

01:23:05.800 and then of course jealousy can arise well that person's so competent it's like this is one of

01:23:10.200 the things I loved about working with Bob Peel my grad supervisor Bob was had his feet firmly

01:23:16.500 enough on the ground and he was a very competent person he's sort of multi-dimensionally competent

01:23:20.900 you know there was a lot of things that bob was good at he was very balanced person and he had

01:23:26.660 zero envy of his students if he had a student who was shining in some particular way it was like

01:23:33.340 that was just fine with bob good yeah yeah it was great it was great credit for what other people do

01:23:39.580 that's just means you're not doing your own thing enough that's all it means there's plenty

01:23:46.440 for everyone to do plenty and if you don't think there is you have a malthusian view of the world

01:23:52.520 zero sum there's only so much if i get 70 you can only have 30 it's like no i think that can also

01:24:01.300 come from working with a lot of incompetent people though and then you're like okay well i only want

01:24:05.520 to give away five percent because i'm going to do anything anyway everything anyway right so that

01:24:10.040 might just not be partnering with the right people well that's part of it that that and that may be

01:24:16.020 part of being too agreeable as well right because you just say yes i i gave him a chance don't give 0.99

01:24:21.380 people chances you know and i'm not saying that like the son of a bitch who never gives anyone 0.95

01:24:26.880 a chance it's like if you're trying to hire someone giving someone a chance is a very bad 0.98

01:24:32.620 reason it's not oh yeah to them it's not it's not helpful to anyone it might make you feel good

01:24:38.200 about yourself morally for 15 minutes it's a very bad strategy yeah you know no that doesn't mean

01:24:44.040 that with careful analysis you couldn't take a risk on someone young and inexperienced but you

01:24:50.820 would have had to evaluate them very carefully to see if the risk was well that's what happened

01:24:55.160 with you when you started working with me like you know i knew you didn't know enough to do

01:25:00.320 what you were doing but i figured i didn't know anything that first year was intense i didn't know

01:25:07.720 anything about anything i remember having conversations with your agent not knowing

01:25:12.500 what a green room was send over his rider it's like you're gonna have sorry justin you're gonna

01:25:17.640 have to explain that too it's like i'm gonna be asking for a lot of words for the next yeah right

01:25:21.680 for the next six months to a year when you start something new well when you start something new

01:25:26.500 you don't know anything what you did start with as far as i was concerned is i figured that you

01:25:32.120 could learn it and that you would

01:25:35.260 and you did thank you well good work it's been fun it's been some ups and downs but it's

01:25:43.940 definitely been fun yeah well it's it's there's no shortage of challenge in what we're doing

01:25:49.280 and that's good yeah yeah no you've done real well and i'm very curious that's the other thing

01:25:57.240 that that that the allegation especially to your kids is useful for it's like i'm curious it's like

01:26:02.180 okay here's an opportunity i've always been curious about this with people like you know

01:26:05.500 in my lab i handed out opportunities to people all the time it's like oh you think you have a clue

01:26:10.460 do you here go see what you can do with this you know and sometimes people come back they just knock

01:26:16.680 it out of the park it's like here's another one for you and then other times people come back and

01:26:21.580 say here's seven reasons i couldn't do it it's like yeah okay that's just they had seven reasons

01:26:27.180 too not always you know sometimes you have to have some sense you know if everybody's if the

01:26:33.980 if all their family members got killed in a car accident you know you could probably take that

01:26:39.860 into consideration that's kind of that's kind of how i felt with jordan when i started working with

01:26:47.040 him which was which here just here which jordan might my your husband my husband jordan but it

01:26:54.100 was like i'd give him i was like i need help i'm over like i'm doing way too many things at the

01:26:58.380 same time i could use somebody i communicate with all the time because either way either way i needed

01:27:03.880 to work with somebody closely to help manage the companies and so i was like that might as well be

01:27:09.200 my husband otherwise i'm going to be in constant communication with somebody else so that's not

01:27:13.900 ideal and so that's kind of how i felt with him which was like well here's a bunch of stuff

01:27:18.040 what happens and then it's been great obviously oh hooray yeah it's expanded my capacity

01:27:27.260 yeah well i would say something very similar has happened with

01:27:31.780 i mean tammy and i always cooperated especially around the kids

01:27:36.420 well that was our prime well i would say that that was probably perfectly suitable because

01:27:43.880 the period of time i'm talking about was the period of time that was primarily occupied by kids

01:27:48.640 then afterwards you know everything blew up around me and she decided she was going to

01:27:54.080 get on board and she's just expanded her competence massively as consequence it's been

01:28:01.480 great because it wasn't obvious to us yeah what we would do once our kids left that's a problem

01:28:07.920 that everybody faces that's been taken care of nicely it's definitely taken care of what if we

01:28:12.980 don't have much to do better make yeah well we weren't worried about that exactly but we were

01:28:17.560 uncertain about what would be the mutual focal point of our life right because kids unite you

01:28:23.680 it's a joint project and so a lot of marriages run into difficulty once the kids leave because

01:28:31.120 the joint project has evaporated and then what do you do well we don't have that problem

01:28:37.740 you certainly do not have that problem no well thank you dad for coming to my podcast good luck

01:28:43.900 with the oh we might as well just say for everybody he's going on tour again tickets are

01:28:48.860 still available jordanbpeterson.com 51 cities across the united states i'm going to do

01:28:55.760 what i did in the genesis lectures in the exodus seminar except more broadly i'm going to

01:29:03.460 Walk through the stories that organize our imagination. That's the right way of thinking about it

01:29:09.780 a culture is a shared corpus of stories and

01:29:14.300 the stories are the foundation

01:29:17.160 We have foundational stories in the West and those are stories derived from the Judeo-Christian tradition

01:29:24.180 For better or worse and I'm going to explain why that's the case and how that's for better not for worse 0.97

01:29:30.700 because they're very

01:29:32.700 profound stories and you can tell that not least because we have the cultures upon which

01:29:39.520 the cultures that are predicated upon those stories are highly functional that's a hint

01:29:46.820 it's a hint it's not proof it's a hint or at least it's an indication that other forms of

01:29:54.860 organization are to be regarded with extreme skepticism like communism for example or fascism

01:30:01.520 well good luck with that tour that should be fun and then peterson academy is launching late

01:30:07.720 february your book is going to be released november that's the plan and then maybe we'll

01:30:13.420 get started on this dating app with all our free time sounds like fun yeah yeah yeah and there's

01:30:20.720 all sorts of sub projects nested in there yep so okay well thanks again nice seeing you nice

01:30:27.000 seeing you over christmas and everything it's been fun it's been real good yeah and congratulations

01:30:31.280 on your baby. Thank you. Yeah, and your husband. Thank you.

The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - January 31, 2024

Jordan Peterson on Divorce, Breakups, Jealousy, and Dark Personality Traits ｜ EP 199

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