The National Telegraph - Wyatt Claypool - January 18, 2024


Iran vs Pakistan (Terror State vs Terror State)


Episode Stats


Length

13 minutes

Words per minute

183.39253

Word count

2,478

Sentence count

156

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

54

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we take a deep dive into the current state of affairs between the Islamic Republic of Iran and Pakistan regarding terrorism and funding terrorism. Is this a good or bad deal for the world? Is this really as bad as it sounds?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.220 It's the heavyweight matchup of terrorism that no one thought we'd get.
00:00:04.460 Yes, we are getting it, because it's 2024 and the world's gone crazy.
00:00:08.300 In one corner is a state sponsor of terrorism so prolific that they've given India absolute fits 0.57
00:00:14.860 for their entire 70-plus year existence.
00:00:17.320 It's Pakistan!
00:00:19.000 Yes, the creators of the Muslim Brotherhood knockoff group, 1.00
00:00:22.580 Jamaati Islami, and dozens and dozens of terrorist groups in Kashmir,
00:00:26.600 and an astroturf separatist movement, the Kalistani movement.
00:00:30.600 Oh, they are very, very, very good terrorist supporters and funders.
00:00:35.760 But in the other corner, we have the returning champion of terrorism funding globally,
00:00:40.160 the Islamic Republic of Iran, and their crown jewel, the IRGC, Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.
00:00:46.380 This is something that a lot of people might tend to think as a good thing.
00:00:51.600 And I understand the appeal.
00:00:53.060 Listen, Iran funds a lot of terrorism through the world, 0.99
00:00:56.980 and Pakistan funds a lot of terrorism all over the world.
00:00:59.220 If you could get them focused on each other, fighting each other instead of fighting us,
00:01:04.780 that would be a good thing.
00:01:06.820 And yes, there is a potential win here for the rest of the world, where you say,
00:01:11.340 oh, if Iran and Pakistan, you know, get into a war, then like, you know,
00:01:15.520 all the missiles that they're giving to Hezbollah and the Houthis will then have to resupply to themselves,
00:01:20.040 and they won't have enough time to, you know, fund Hamas and PIJ.
00:01:23.780 And maybe there'll be some regional calm as they lose some influence over their proxies,
00:01:29.040 like they did in the Trump administration when they didn't have the resources to fund global terrorism.
00:01:34.840 You know, that would be nice.
00:01:36.100 Yeah.
00:01:36.280 And if Pakistan can focus on, you know, 1.00
00:01:38.180 keeping Islamic radicals and the IRGC and the Iranians out of their country, 1.00
00:01:42.620 instead of exporting terrorism to, you know, the rest of Southeast Asia, primarily India,
00:01:47.060 and funding literal terrorist training camps with the Kalistanis in Canada.
00:01:50.280 Yes, in Canada, we do have terrorist training camps.
00:01:52.480 And I'm not being hyperbolic.
00:01:53.600 I mean, like, actual camps where they give Kalistanis AK-47 and shooting, 0.97
00:01:58.100 and they go, da-da-da-da-da,
00:01:58.860 and they're like, this is how you infiltrate through Pakistan into India.
00:02:02.660 Kill Indian officials and come back here. 1.00
00:02:04.160 Like, we literally train people to commit terrorism here in our country.
00:02:09.280 Whoop-de-doo. 0.97
00:02:10.580 It would be nice if these countries had to stop putting resources into this and go after each other.
00:02:17.540 So, I understand the impulses to cheer for both teams to lose.
00:02:23.240 And there is a possibility where this turns into a good thing.
00:02:29.160 However, I do not trust the government of Pakistan to do the right thing. 0.61
00:02:34.280 I do not trust the government of Iran to do the right thing.
00:02:37.500 I see both of them as nefarious bad actors that will probably look to exploit this in a way that doesn't benefit anyone,
00:02:44.380 least of all their people, and secondly, the rest of the civilians in the world.
00:02:48.660 So, I see billions of people not benefiting from this, despite the sound of it maybe being good on first analysis.
00:02:57.640 So, the case to say, oh, maybe they'll just start killing each other. 0.51
00:03:03.520 It's the Sunni Shiite thing, right? 1.00
00:03:06.740 The Islamic Republic of Iran is Shiite ISIS, right? 0.99
00:03:10.040 They want a caliphate, global caliphate, based on the Ayatollah Khomeini.
00:03:13.220 It's going to be a Shiite thing. 0.99
00:03:14.600 And if you listen, like, this is the funny thing about Islamophobia, right? 0.95
00:03:17.500 Like, every Islamic radical is more Islamophobic than, you know, the biggest Islamophobe you'll find, you know, that you can name in the West.
00:03:25.700 Because if they're Shiite radicals, they want to kill all the Sunnis. 0.96
00:03:29.220 They're like, we'll kill the Jews and the Christians first, then we'll kill each other. 1.00
00:03:32.460 And if it's a Sunni radical, well, they're going to kill all these Shiites because they're not real Muslims and they're blasphemers and kafirs, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 0.98
00:03:37.780 So you have, that's the general potential for chaos and friction between the two, right?
00:03:45.600 You could say, okay, is there some proto-ISIS Sunni militants in Pakistan?
00:03:50.380 Yes, that's what they do.
00:03:51.500 That's literally what Pakistan is. 0.57
00:03:54.820 Pakistan pretends to be a friend of the West. 1.00
00:03:56.420 They have nukes, so they blackmail us and beg for loans.
00:03:59.460 And we give them money, and they don't use that money to fight terrorism.
00:04:02.520 They use that money to create more terrorism.
00:04:04.360 Who's most responsible, the Taliban? 0.99
00:04:06.260 Well, Pakistan, right? 0.78
00:04:07.540 They would just go into Pakistan for arrest.
00:04:09.140 Where was Osama bin Laden?
00:04:10.560 Pakistan, okay. 1.00
00:04:12.460 Now, the fighting, though, is in, you know, the Baloch province of both countries.
00:04:19.940 And if you know anything about Pakistan, like, they're not friends of the Baloch people.
00:04:26.820 Pakistan has been committing ethnic cleansing and general crimes against humanity in the Baloch region since its inception. 0.95
00:04:33.080 You know, this is where China's building is about road initiative and, you know,
00:04:36.080 people being dragged off into, you know, sometimes they disappear, sometimes they're tortured for a couple years and, like, dumped on the streets, mutilated, sometimes dead, sometimes not.
00:04:44.340 You know, we've had both countries have assassinated dissidents in Canada, here in Toronto.
00:04:48.740 Karima Baloch was drowned by the ISI in a river.
00:04:52.500 The Toronto police, these geniuses, said, you know, that's a suicide.
00:04:55.960 She strangled herself and then took her own dead body and threw it in a river. 0.99
00:04:59.440 That's, you know.
00:05:00.320 And then for the IRGC, they did assassinate Mehdi Amin here in Toronto, among some others.
00:05:08.200 They also shot down Flight PS-752.
00:05:11.280 This was the IRGC internally.
00:05:13.240 We all know that story.
00:05:14.480 We can go into it another time.
00:05:15.380 So, you have two bad actors.
00:05:19.000 But what can they potentially gain here?
00:05:20.420 Is there an argument to say that Iran is acting in pure self-defense from the terrorism of Pakistan?
00:05:26.900 Yeah.
00:05:27.240 A lot of countries have reason to bomb Pakistan for terrorism. 0.64
00:05:30.200 Now, can you say, wait, doesn't Pakistan have legitimate reasons to bomb Iran because of, you know, fomenting terrorism and attacks on their territory? 0.92
00:05:37.820 Yeah.
00:05:38.340 So do a lot of countries.
00:05:39.440 And it's kind of funny that, you know, we've had these experts in Middle East.
00:05:42.800 Oh, if you touch Iran and you go into Iran, we're all in chaos. 1.00
00:05:46.320 You can't push back against the IRGC or the Islamic Republic or else chaos will ensue. 0.95
00:05:51.100 The Pakistanis just did. 1.00
00:05:52.240 They just let the Pakistanis bomb random civilians. 1.00
00:05:55.340 Now, the other thing here is, is Pakistan right that Iran is a terrorist proxy terrorizing people?
00:06:01.920 Yes.
00:06:02.260 Is Iran right that Pakistan is a terrorist proxy terrorizing people?
00:06:04.960 Yes.
00:06:05.400 And both of them are acting like a bunch of terrorists.
00:06:07.200 Just randomly bombing civilians, calling them ISIS.
00:06:10.340 Soon they'll be Zionist Jews. 0.99
00:06:11.660 We're about a week or two away from both sides claiming that the other one is controlled by the Jews.
00:06:17.200 This is where the conversation will go within a week.
00:06:19.840 This take will probably age well.
00:06:23.380 But in the Baloch province, Pakistan has been killing these people. 0.58
00:06:28.160 So the problem is both Pakistan and Iran are claiming, hey, you're killing our people.
00:06:34.820 That's our job.
00:06:36.420 We kill and terrorize our people, not you.
00:06:39.220 So it's not like Pakistan has any great love for the Baloch people.
00:06:42.980 They've been horribly oppressing them for decades, forever, since the dawn of Pakistan. 1.00
00:06:48.200 And Iran, as you see, they like to foment this internal separatism narrative. 0.93
00:06:58.060 And by Pakistan, you know, bombing Baloch people, I already see the narrative being laid here where the Islamic Republic is already coming out and saying that the civilians, the Iranian civilians killed aren't really Iranians.
00:07:09.640 They're Baloch. 1.00
00:07:10.180 And this is them, you know, being classically racist in a Western way.
00:07:15.620 But it's not exactly what the real makeup of Iranian politics is.
00:07:19.740 They're being Western-style racist likely to internally foment a separatist movement and push up some Baloch separatism because, one, they're letting the Baloch people get bombed by a foreign power.
00:07:33.280 And then they're taunting their dead children, saying they're not real Iranians.
00:07:37.020 Who cares?
00:07:37.940 Right?
00:07:38.180 They want the Baloch to feel more separate because if they can push an internal separatist fear in Iran, they can then gain more domestic power.
00:07:46.980 They've done this for years.
00:07:48.580 Now, I can't see the separatist thing backfiring on the Islamic Republic because the separatist thing is often glommed on to Western leftism.
00:07:59.840 It's the Western leftists who often will, you know, support these separatist movements.
00:08:04.180 And the Islamists think they can manipulate the socialists, which they can. 1.00
00:08:07.620 They can be.
00:08:08.520 But they also, like, socialists and Western leftists are crazy idiots.
00:08:12.780 Like, they're not fully controllable.
00:08:14.560 They are a bit of a rabbit dog.
00:08:15.900 So, they're not that perfectly contained.
00:08:19.660 You could see dire consequences or unintended consequences of their actions.
00:08:26.240 I mean, both Pakistan and Iran here blowing up in their face. 1.00
00:08:29.340 But the reason why I am not celebrating this as you, touchdown, get him.
00:08:34.560 I see a way for the regime to benefit off of this.
00:08:43.200 And for all their failings, and sometimes they're crazy, they are very good at manipulating their population to stay in power.
00:08:50.800 The way I would describe this is, like, I always say, like, Iran's an actual nation and country with history and culture in the Middle East.
00:08:57.820 You know, so it's not like the other regions where it's just different tribes.
00:09:00.540 Like, there is a cohesive national Iranian identity.
00:09:03.820 And all these different peoples, you know, ethnic minorities, Turks, Baloch, Azeri, Kurds, all of them have ruled Iran at some point over its thousands of years of history.
00:09:13.200 So, this history is seen by Iranian pro-democracy, you know, either constitutional monarchists or republicans, as very important to the rebirth of the Iranian nation without the Islamic Republic.
00:09:25.760 And to start to separate it and pull it into balkanization is really going to undermine any legitimate free Iran movement.
00:09:32.340 The best example I can give for sort of, you know, why don't we just, like, break Iran into all these different places and cut off the Azerbaijan and cut off a Kurdish region and cut off a Baloch region and cut off a this region. 0.98
00:09:41.980 It might sound like a way to, you know, throw Iran into chaos and overthrow the regime, but it's not going to work.
00:09:49.060 It's kind of like when Jews hear the, why don't you just move Israel to Europe?
00:09:52.860 Or why don't you just have all the Jews move to Antarctica? 1.00
00:09:55.640 Or why don't you make Israel in America? 0.97
00:09:57.280 It's like, no, because Israel is there. 0.99
00:09:58.720 Like, it's an ignorant thing to say, like, no Jew is going to be like, oh, the Bible says Jerusalem.
00:10:02.680 Maybe Jerusalem means Madagascar. 0.96
00:10:04.240 Like, it's not going to happen, right?
00:10:06.360 It's the same way you're not going to win hearts and minds and heads or anything in the Iranian community if you're just, like, backing a Balochie separatist movement. 0.96
00:10:15.280 So I see this sort of potentially a trap the regime could use to bait a lot of, you know, new Iranian ally. 0.84
00:10:22.940 There's a lot of people who've come to the side of the Iranian people over the last few years but don't really understand the intricacies of Iranian politics.
00:10:29.680 I see this as a giant landmine potentially to step on.
00:10:32.520 And, again, you already see the regime.
00:10:34.260 They're like, these aren't really people.
00:10:36.140 They're just human beings.
00:10:36.940 We like killing people.
00:10:38.140 We like to kill people.
00:10:39.520 Listen, these Balochie Iranians, we wanted to kill them, and we will kill them eventually. 1.00
00:10:44.120 We're very mad at Pakistan for killing them first. 1.00
00:10:45.880 This is essentially the complaint.
00:10:49.040 So is there a chance that, you know, hey, listen, if Pakistan starts hitting IRGC targets inside Iran and Iran starts hitting terrorist training camps inside Pakistan, you know what?
00:11:00.420 Step back.
00:11:01.060 Watch it happen.
00:11:01.620 I don't see that happening.
00:11:03.780 And for the love of God, please, Joe Biden, Americans, the West, do not, do not, do not throw hundreds of millions or billions of dollars at Pakistan to kill random Iranian civilians.
00:11:16.700 Please do not do that.
00:11:17.740 That is going to blow up in your face.
00:11:21.200 Just don't do it.
00:11:23.540 One, the money won't even go to, most of it won't even go to killing the Iranian civilians.
00:11:28.380 It will go to more terrorist training camps, which will probably be used to kill Indians and some Westerners and foment general discord on our streets. 0.69
00:11:35.780 That's what Pakistan uses their money for. 1.00
00:11:37.540 So it won't even go to your desired intended purpose of doing that, but it will be played as if it is doing that.
00:11:42.900 And it will further isolate the pro-democracy, anti-regime movement inside Iran from the rest of the world.
00:11:48.500 So if you want both these countries to stop the terrorist shenanigans like I do, I suggest sit back and watch this one.
00:11:58.660 Just watch and don't start cheering, you know, dead civilians because that seems to be their plan, right?
00:12:06.480 All these people, and Palestinians, listen, these are your two great allies, Pakistan and Iran.
00:12:10.940 They love you so much.
00:12:11.860 Do you really think they care about your lives, Palestinians? 1.00
00:12:14.260 They don't care about their own civilians, right? 0.89
00:12:16.580 They don't care about their own people.
00:12:18.700 And they're just blowing up random people in the other countries that are allegedly your supporters.
00:12:23.100 You really think these guys have your back?
00:12:24.980 I don't.
00:12:26.000 So, everyone?
00:12:27.900 Yes, it is kind of funny that the world's number two and number one state sponsors of terrorism are fighting each other right now.
00:12:36.020 There is reason they're fighting each other because, yeah, some of them are crazy Islamic fundamentalists and they're Sunni and Shiite. 0.98
00:12:40.780 So they're going to try and kill each other eventually.
00:12:43.560 How will this go?
00:12:44.760 I don't know.
00:12:45.860 I am excited for the phase where both sides start blaming the Jews and then we see how both sides take that.
00:12:50.780 That's going to be entertaining.
00:12:51.680 Other than that, you know, Pakistan, if you want to do me a favor and, you know, shoot Raisi or Khomeini in the face, that would be appreciated by everyone. 1.00
00:13:00.920 Same thing with the IRGC.
00:13:01.900 If you want to just, like, take out all these Pakistani terrorist training camps and generals funding terrorism that are going to eventually kill you, he's right. 1.00
00:13:07.900 Remember, when you kill all the Jews and then kill everyone in the West, you're going to start killing each other after that, right? 1.00
00:13:13.220 You know this, right?
00:13:14.600 Sunni, Shiite, you're both ISIS. 1.00
00:13:16.140 So, hey, you know, maybe, you know, do something about that because, you know, the West isn't going to save you because we're up our own at NASA's and we can't figure out what's going on.
00:13:25.960 So maybe you guys can, you know, fight some radical Islam for once. 0.84