The NXR Podcast - BONUS EPISODE - Russell Moore, The Enneagram, & Gifts Vs. Fruit ｜ Live with Pastor Joel

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00:00:40.580 Here we go. Let's go ahead and hop in today. Today's topic, what we're going to focus on,

00:00:44.820 and I'm going to try my best to be brief, right? Some of you are watching, you're laughing. I can

00:00:48.900 hear you laughing because you know that that's a joke when Pastor Joel says he's going to try to

00:00:52.820 be brief. It is going to be brief. It's probably going to be an hour, but an hour is brief by

00:00:58.640 comparison to the last couple of weeks, which have been closer to two hours, right? Which is crazy.

00:01:04.080 I've got to, I've got to cut back some. So, um, what I want to focus on is the Enneagram. The

00:01:09.860 Enneagram I believe is a gift from Jesus. It's basically the gospel. No, I'm just kidding. It's

00:01:15.640 horrible. Um, the Enneagram is horrible, but I mean, when you listen to some of the big Eva types, 1.00

00:01:21.340 Russell Moore, going to talk about him today. They act like the Enneagram is the 67th book of 0.99

00:01:27.020 the Bible, but it is not. It is not. In the same way that critical race theory is not just a certain

00:01:34.700 set of lenses that you can put on and still hold to the biblical worldview while, you know, using

00:01:40.980 this tool, this analytical tool, you know, along with scripture. No, critical race theory is a

00:01:47.960 worldview right it's it's not a tool to use along with the christian worldview in the bible the

00:01:53.700 scriptures so the scriptura but it's actually a competing contradicting antithetical worldview

00:01:59.820 itself it's a deconstructing jackhammer worldview it is not the bible with critical race theory it

00:02:06.620 is the bible or critical race theory they both cannot simultaneously coexist one will ultimately

00:02:14.140 override the other the Enneagram I believe is the same this is a personality test tool you know

00:02:21.780 framework for seeing nine different types of people and personality types and what the strengths

00:02:27.560 various strengths and weaknesses are and how to engage with one another but it doesn't work with

00:02:33.800 the gospel and it doesn't work with the scripture in fact I believe that it fundamentally contradicts

00:02:39.600 of the most basic principles of scripture namely the doctrine of sin the doctrine of sin one thing

00:02:47.600 that i've noticed that the personality tests do and i think this includes for the record even

00:02:51.840 things like myers-briggs uh that is you know positive it's posited presented as though it is

00:02:57.520 merely strictly scientific um it's probably better than the enneagram but even some of the

00:03:03.120 research that I've done on the Myers-Briggs test is still, it's pop psychology. And it's a certain

00:03:12.340 brand of psychology that is antithetical to biblical counseling, biblical principles,

00:03:20.020 biblical doctrine. It has, for instance, the reason why I am anti-psychology, okay? If somebody is

00:03:28.360 is wrestling with depression and anxiety and it's severe, right? Let's say it's severe in my church,

00:03:33.620 just like John MacArthur with grace community church, we're going to send them to a, a trained

00:03:38.920 qualified psychologist. Nope. Biblical counselor. Why? Because psychology fundamentally, it's not

00:03:46.140 just, it's just like critical race theory, just like the Enneagram. It's not something that you

00:03:50.480 can add to the Bible. It's not the Bible now through this lens. No, it's antithetical to

00:03:55.600 the scripture. Psychology, it posits a certain view of man, and it posits a certain view of

00:04:03.940 who man should be, who you currently are, and who you should be, right? So the Bible has

00:04:10.140 anthropology, a view of man. And the Bible also has theology, and not just theology of God the

00:04:17.120 Father and God the Holy Spirit, but particularly the second member of the eternal trinity, namely

00:04:22.620 the God man, Christ Jesus himself. Jesus reveals to us who God is. If you've seen me, you've seen

00:04:30.720 the father. So in the person and work of Jesus Christ, we see God, but also in the person work

00:04:36.740 of Jesus Christ, we see the perfect man. We see humanity redeemed. We see who man is supposed to

00:04:43.460 be. So the Bible tells us who man is apart from Christ, right? Read Romans chapter nine, read

00:04:49.000 Romans chapter 3, no one seeks for God, right? Their throats are like open graves. They seek

00:04:55.940 for blood. They lie in wait, right? No one seeks for God. All have fallen short. That's Romans 8

00:05:00.960 now. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 8 furthermore says the mind of the

00:05:05.940 sinful man is not just indifferent or uninterested or neutral, but hostile. It is at enmity with God

00:05:13.240 and his law it does not submit to god's law that is it will not but also it indeed cannot it is

00:05:20.660 unwilling and unable so the bible gives us a very particular anthropology an understanding a

00:05:27.960 doctrine of who man is and in the person and work of jesus christ the bible tells us who man is

00:05:34.360 supposed to be right so when with biblical counseling we can say this is where man is

00:05:40.380 this is where he's supposed to get psychology says this is where man is and they're wrong

00:05:47.020 they're wrong about where man is the origin of man the starting place of man and this is where

00:05:53.140 man's supposed to be they're wrong about the destination psychology because it rejects the

00:05:58.640 fundamental teachings of scripture it is wrong in its diagnosis of where man is and the the root

00:06:05.980 fundamental problems that mankind experiences namely sin and it's also wrong in its prescription

00:06:12.580 of where man is supposed to get where man is going what the proper destination for man is

00:06:18.460 so wrong in the starting place wrong in the ending place and therefore thoroughly unhelpful

00:06:24.180 everywhere in between psychology is not helpful the enneagram is well really the enneagram is is

00:06:32.180 a mixed bag. It's pop psychology and personality tests and Myers-Briggs and all that kind of stuff.

00:06:37.540 It's also though, to be fair, it's very original in a sense. I don't want to just say, oh, it's

00:06:43.220 the Myers-Briggs test, you know, 2.0 because it's not, that's not fair to the Enneagram. The Enneagram

00:06:47.440 has some distinctly original novel basis. It's not just pop psychology. It's not just Sigmund Freud.

00:06:56.280 it's not just Myers-Briggs 2.0 the Enneagram is original in the sense that it is also demonic

00:07:03.660 it's not just forged in the minds of psychologists it's also forged in the fires of hell

00:07:09.980 and don't just take my word for it take the word of the guy who came up with it himself let's play

00:07:16.240 a clip. It's coming. So at the conference, I told them I had made up this tale that all

00:07:29.020 this came from millennia ago and the disinformation came from the Sufis. I told him that actually 0.81

00:07:37.620 Oscar Richardson had not described any of the anyotypes either. Actually, in the seven

00:07:44.840 months we spent with him he devoted about six hours to talk about the enneagram but he never

00:07:50.120 came to describe any one of the types that was all that came in arica chile yeah yeah so that

00:07:56.120 came from my own observations but mostly from automatic writing it automatic writing yeah it

00:08:02.200 came to me through automatic writing what did the specific information and that's any types

00:08:08.040 about any types which i then verified through observation because i was surrounded by people

00:08:13.560 I was teaching and exploring

00:08:16.080 with. And I had

00:08:17.520 friends in Eureka who told me

00:08:20.040 essentially the same story

00:08:21.920 that there was

00:08:24.140 no mention of, no others

00:08:25.880 besides, there was no mention of

00:08:28.000 anyotypes except from you.

00:08:30.100 Yes.

00:08:31.640 So that you were the origin of the anyotype

00:08:33.980 concept. And you were the origin of

00:08:36.080 the word anyotype. Yes.

00:08:38.080 You suggested it and I adopted that idea.

00:08:41.340 There you have it.

00:08:42.460 the enneagram is not a millennia old it does not come from christian roots does not come from

00:08:49.560 church fathers it does not come from greeks or romans uh it is very new very novel and it comes

00:08:58.640 from automatic writing did you catch that automatic writing if you're not familiar with

00:09:03.060 the practice of automatic writing a mystic practice guys like richard roar would be a fan

00:09:08.260 If you're wondering who Richard Warr is, he is just a mystic, quintessential heretic who is going to hell and leading many people to hell with him.

00:09:19.280 Automatic writing is basically when you just, when your mind goes on coast, autopilot, where it's not intentional. 0.61

00:09:28.360 You're not actually thinking.

00:09:29.760 You're not actually cognitive of what you're writing in terms of content, intentionality, deliberation.

00:09:35.280 automatic writing is where you just turn off your brain automatic writing is it's the writing

00:09:41.200 equivalent of mantra meditation right the bible talks about meditation for the record psalm chapter

00:09:47.720 one right the blessed man the blessed man he's like a tree right he doesn't sit in the seat of

00:09:54.000 scoffers or walk in the way of of of the wicked um but rather he he is like a tree that's planted

00:10:00.540 by streams of water his his leaves are evergreen right so he's got lively green leaves in every

00:10:07.380 season all year long but he bears fruit in its time so there are times where there aren't fruit

00:10:12.660 the tree bears fruit in season but it is evergreen all year long because it's not dependent on on

00:10:20.700 being in simply moments seasons of rain and precipitation but rather its roots are planted

00:10:28.280 by streams of water that's what the blessed man is like and psalm chapter one goes on and says

00:10:33.380 you know blessed is the man who meditates on your word your law word day and night day and night

00:10:40.620 so there is a category of meditation within the christian biblical worldview but here's the

00:10:47.800 distinct difference between eastern mantra meditation getting back to automatic writing

00:10:53.660 here in just a moment versus christian meditation christian meditation is where the mind focuses

00:11:00.140 on substance namely particularly the substance of god's law word so the righteous man the blessed

00:11:10.880 man who meditates on what it doesn't just say he meditates day and night no he meditates on

00:11:17.000 something the word of god see mantra meditation actually seeks to empty the mind of all rational

00:11:24.960 thought it views rational thought in some sense as an enemy or at minimum a distraction so what

00:11:33.540 we want to do in eastern mystic mantra demonic meditation it is demonic yoga is demonic the

00:11:41.540 enneagram is demonic certain even spiritual gift finder test see peter wagner throw his name out

00:11:49.420 there i believe also demonic these are not helpful it wants to remove empty the mind of all

00:11:58.000 substance rational thought so that the mind can be filled with what well if anything it's simply

00:12:07.100 making yourself a vulnerable available vessel for demonic activity for demonic activity and that's

00:12:18.320 precisely what the creator of the enneagram is saying he's saying you know i lied when i told

00:12:24.120 people at first that this had roots in history because that's what that's what false teachers do

00:12:28.580 that's always what false teachers do right what what do you do when you have a certain belief a

00:12:33.880 certain doctrine a certain truth that you want to promote and you know it's novel right because

00:12:40.040 that's one quality that all heresies have in common it's novel what what do you do when you're

00:12:45.400 trying to promote this but you know it's something that's new and people aren't you know people are

00:12:49.340 going to be they're going to have an aversion towards something that's new they're going to

00:12:52.700 think if it's really new it also might be really wrong well what you want to do is you want to

00:12:57.660 rewrite the narrative rewrite the history books to try to make it uh you gotta you gotta try to

00:13:03.460 pass it off that convince people that your new idea is actually somebody else's old idea because

00:13:11.180 there's a certain piece that comes to people and rightfully so with something being tried and true

00:13:17.980 something having historic roots and so that's what the the creator of the enneagram tried to do and

00:13:23.320 he's admitting that he is confessing in that video i initially tried to tell people that this was not

00:13:27.980 just a novel original new idea my idea but it's an old idea that I just kind of you know I took

00:13:34.240 it and dusted it off and you know shaped it up and now now that does happen in history that's

00:13:39.380 precisely what Martin Luther did with the gospel the gospel is not Martin Luther's idea the gospel

00:13:44.640 is God's gospel that's what Roman says it is the gospel of God and it finds its root all the way

00:13:51.800 in the pages of scripture and really in the covenant of redemption between the father and

00:13:56.020 the son by the holy spirit before the foundations of the world were even laid that's how old the

00:14:01.120 gospel is and certainly the gospel is in scripture it's in the old testament with types and shadows

00:14:06.980 pointing towards the priest who is in forever a priest not in the order of aaron the levitical

00:14:13.040 order but in the order of michelzadik and so we we have types and shadows of the lamb of god who

00:14:17.740 will come and then certainly we have the gospel explicitly again and again and again in the

00:14:23.020 apostolic writings of the new testament but because of sin and rebellion and well really

00:14:30.200 totalitarian oppression and spiritual abuse namely from the roman catholic church the gospel was

00:14:38.300 concealed it was covered up martin luther comes and uncovers the gospel and gets us back to

00:14:45.080 athanasius and augustine and all the way back ultimately to the apostle paul and jesus christ

00:14:50.160 himself that is an example of uncovering an old truth that had been lost you're not introducing

00:14:56.520 something that's novel or new but it feels novel or new to that particular generation because it's

00:15:01.940 been concealed that can't happen and that's what the author the creator of the enneagram tried to

00:15:08.500 present initially he said yeah i wanted people to think that you know it's novel and new because

00:15:12.180 i'm dusting off some lost forgotten tool truth of the universe but it's it's you know trust me

00:15:19.560 it's safe. It's safe because it has its roots in history. It's not that novel. It just seems

00:15:23.300 novel to us because I'm dusting it off. It had been previously forgotten, but it's very, very

00:15:27.480 old. Well, in the video you just saw, he admits and says, nah, it's actually not old at all. I

00:15:32.000 came up with it. The Enneatypes, that's the nine different personality, the nine different types.

00:15:37.140 Are you number four? Are you number eight? Are you number this? Are you number that? And the

00:15:41.040 phrase Enneatypes, that was coined by the guy who's sitting right next to him. So there you

00:15:46.100 have it that's a confession right and people say hey you know you need to do this biblically two

00:15:50.460 or three witnesses um unless you have a confession when the person themselves confesses to to what

00:15:59.940 they did that's that's it case closed so it doesn't matter what somebody else says the guy

00:16:07.580 himself is saying yeah this is not an old idea it doesn't have christian roots it's not in the

00:16:13.500 church fathers. It's not in this. It's not in that. I came up with it. And not just I came up

00:16:18.000 with it with intentional, rational, logical thought. I came up with it through automatic

00:16:25.560 writing. So again, Christian meditation meditates on substance, namely the word of God. It takes

00:16:31.280 the scripture, the law word of God, and choose on it, thinking about the words. And one prerequisite

00:16:37.340 I might add for Christian meditation is scripture memorization. How do you meditate on God's word

00:16:43.340 day and night if you first have not hidden God's word in your heart right so hiding the word of

00:16:49.920 God in your heart memorizing the scripture and then all day long day and night actually the

00:16:56.420 psalmist says day and night taking the scripture that you've memorized in your mind and now

00:17:01.420 meditating on meaning that you are you are thinking I would define Christian meditation

00:17:06.200 like this first is memorizing God's word substance not emptying the mind of all rational thought

00:17:11.640 but filling it with god's word so there's substance you've memorized god's word first

00:17:16.700 and now you are thinking about all the applications and implications of what it looks like to

00:17:22.100 obey god's word i think that's what meditation primarily is meditation christian meditation

00:17:28.060 biblical meditation is taking god's words which you have committed to memory and then drawing

00:17:34.100 out the connections between this verse and that verse and drawing out the practical

00:17:39.060 logical implications and applications of what it would look like to actually obey god's word

00:17:46.060 in every realm of life not just a mere hearer of the word which the scripture itself says is like

00:17:52.560 a man who looks into a mirror sees his reflection turns around and immediately forgets what he looks

00:17:57.740 like that's what someone who hears the word but does not obey the word is like a man who can't

00:18:03.360 even remember his own appearance having having just looked at himself in a mirror but rather

00:18:09.660 we again and again the scripture says are called to be doers not mere hearers of the word but doers

00:18:15.600 of the word and and the one who does the word is the one who memorizes the word and meditates on

00:18:21.260 the word drawing out he is preparing for practical tangible real obedience mantra meditation is

00:18:30.980 nothing like that mantra meditation is thinking about nothing in fact sometimes mantra meditation

00:18:36.780 will have a word like like with christian meditation memorizing scripture but it'll take

00:18:41.340 one word or a couple words a two three word phrase right this would be like centered prayer

00:18:48.120 or contemplative prayer right there's a lot there are a host of christian spiritual disciplines

00:18:54.920 but not actual spiritual disciplines like fasting prayer bible study bible memorization

00:19:02.800 christian meditation no there are a ton of demonic of demonic practices that have slipped under the

00:19:10.260 door and certain protestants have paved the way for them so contemplative prayer or centered

00:19:15.900 prayer would be another example this is mantra eastern meditation it's trying to synthesize

00:19:21.880 doctrines of demons with the doctrines of scripture what fellowship does light have

00:19:27.180 with darkness the answer is a resounding nothing no relationship we don't try to synthesize

00:19:35.340 doctrines of demons and the doctrines of god so contemplative prayer centered prayer that's where

00:19:41.820 they'll take a one word or two or three word phrase and what you ideally want is for it to

00:19:48.020 have seven syllables, seven syllables. And what you do is you're not focusing on these words.

00:19:55.000 You're actually repeating these words only insofar as it helps you to focus on nothing.

00:20:02.660 So whenever you find your mind wandering, because God has created us in such a way to where

00:20:07.620 our minds naturally think rationally, you actually have to be deliberate and intentional

00:20:14.560 about trying to be irrational and so whenever your mind when you're doing mantra eastern meditation

00:20:20.940 or contemplative prayer centered prayer which is just christian forms of demonic meditation

00:20:27.000 whenever you're trying to do that what they suggest is this your mind because it naturally

00:20:31.500 gravitates towards rational substantive thought take a little seven syllable phrase and and make

00:20:39.180 it a christian phrase give it a christian spin you know so you can feel good about your demonic

00:20:43.900 practice. And, and whenever you start getting distracted by rationality, distracted by, you

00:20:51.640 know, things, distractive things like logic, you know, um, then, then whenever your mind starts to

00:20:57.280 think it gravitates towards actual rational, logical thought, then to, to, to refocus yourself

00:21:03.280 on emptying your mind, say the phrase. So you're only using words in this mantra meditation,

00:21:10.700 contemplative prayer centered prayer you're only using words to to to help you not be distracted

00:21:16.820 by words by cognitive rational thought that's the only purpose so all that being said that's

00:21:24.720 mantra meditation automatic writing is simply the written form the written form of mantra meditation

00:21:31.880 where you empty your mind you're thinking about nothing nothing logical nothing rational and you

00:21:37.740 can be certain therefore nothing biblical and just something just takes over you're writing

00:21:44.520 you're literally writing and and you're not thinking about a single word and yet something

00:21:49.180 just takes over and and when you're done you look and there's words on the page something took over

00:21:54.760 just just involuntary took over without your mind cooperating without your mind even being

00:22:02.780 cognitively aware of what was going on and what took over was jesus right jesus take the wheel

00:22:09.920 no what took over was a demon that's what took over not jesus it might be a demonic

00:22:18.740 presence that calls itself jesus but it ain't jesus i can assure you of that and there you have

00:22:25.740 it ladies and gentlemen the origins of the enneagram great start right we're off to a great

00:22:31.780 start now with that kind of origin um pop psychology demons and you know sprinkle in a

00:22:43.740 little bit of christian phrases you know for the christians who are trying to use it um with that

00:22:47.780 kind of origin all right that's super suspect that is dangerous with that kind of origin who

00:22:53.600 are you going to expect to as a christian to participate to utilize this well look no further

00:23:00.780 than russell moore of course right russell moore christianity today lead editor christianity if

00:23:06.640 you've got something that has its origins in the doctrines of demons you bet your christianity

00:23:11.980 today's right on hot on the case using that that that that analytical creative tool that works

00:23:17.700 right alongside the teachings of scripture um so here you go here are three speakers at the and

00:23:23.480 and they've titled this right this is a virtual conference that has literally been titled um

00:23:28.460 uh the enneagram for the gospel or the gospel for enneagram which one is it nathan

00:23:34.100 the the gospel it's a book but they're also doing a virtual conference is the gospel for

00:23:41.320 the enneagram so this is a book that you can get and the guy i think it's the same guy who wrote

00:23:45.700 the book is also hosting a virtual conference with like 20 speakers so there's a lot of speakers

00:23:49.980 but i want to highlight three of them russell moore we'll start with him go ahead and put this

00:23:53.920 up nathan so this is dr russell moore special interview um editor-in-chief at christianity

00:24:00.720 today which is just a joke christianity today no legitimate christian needs to follow christianity

00:24:06.740 today and that includes for the record that includes the rise and fall of mars hill i think

00:24:12.720 there were certain problems with mark driscoll i'm not making excuses for mark driscoll however

00:24:19.700 If you want to discuss the problems with Mark Driscoll, get them from Christians. 0.99

00:24:24.600 And you will not find serious, legitimate Christians at Christianity Today. 1.00

00:24:30.200 Instead, you'll find Dr. Russell Moore.

00:24:32.360 So he's the editor-in-chief at Christianity Today, author of a ton of different books.

00:24:37.300 Some of them, if it's a book that he wrote 10 years ago, it might actually be pretty good.

00:24:41.620 But Russell Moore has been on a bad trajectory as of late.

00:24:46.140 But who else is speaking?

00:24:47.800 Here's another.

00:24:48.760 Suzanne Stabile or Stabile, I'm not sure exactly how to say it, but I have some notes here,

00:24:55.540 and I want to read this for you, because I want you to understand who these people are

00:24:59.060 and how serious this is, okay? So, this is actually from Protestia, which actually,

00:25:07.480 I think it's David, I forget the name, I think it's David Morell, is actually a friend of mine,

00:25:13.260 um but protestia there uh they have articles and they have videos and all kinds of stuff it's a

00:25:18.920 christian uh website ministry like right response in many ways uh but this is what they wrote they

00:25:23.720 wrote an article about this this book and this conference coming up the um uh the enneagram for

00:25:29.420 the gospel they wrote this a year after russell moore helped advance false claims that the enneagram

00:25:35.060 has christian roots and four months after he and beth moore shared their enneagram personalities

00:25:40.860 the former erlc president and current editor-in-chief at christianity today is scheduled

00:25:47.240 to be a speaker at the gospel for enneagram summit okay that's the name of the gospel for

00:25:53.620 enneagram summit this is the upcoming virtual conference april 4th 5th 6th and 7th okay they

00:26:00.800 go on to say this is protestier writing the earliest mention of the enneagram is found in

00:26:06.020 writings of the russian occultist who is uh pd ospensky from 1878 to 1947 that's his life

00:26:13.900 who attributes it to his teacher the greek american occultist georges i

00:26:20.700 gurdjieff gurdjieff considered the enneagram a symbol of the cosmos but made no connection

00:26:29.060 with it to personality types it was left to another occultist oscar uh ecazo to connect

00:26:36.400 the enneagram to personality ecazo claimed to have discovered the personality type meaning of

00:26:42.480 the enneagram when it was taught to him by the archangel metroton which uh while he was high

00:26:49.240 on mescaline is that how you say that nathan drug mescaline i i don't do drugs praise god and so i

00:26:58.200 don't have a lot of experience with the pronunciation of every different kind of drug all

00:27:03.680 right so all that being said more russell moore is joined by a slew of enneagram teachers but one

00:27:09.880 person we wanted to highlight again reading from protestia is suzanne stebot stabile steble i don't

00:27:18.420 know s-t-a-b-i-l-e suzanne let's stick with that i can pronounce suzanne so one that they wanted

00:27:25.840 to highlight in this article by protestia is suzanne so here's a little background on her she's

00:27:30.060 one of the keynote speakers right there alongside russell moore right he's going to share the stage

00:27:33.800 with suzanne can she faithfully teach on the intersection of the gospel and the enneagram

00:27:38.340 well let's see suzanne calls herself the enneagram grandmother she and her husband attend highland

00:27:45.520 park united methodist church not a good start a gay affirming church where her husband a former

00:27:51.540 roman catholic priest turned methodist minister has preached in the past they first learned about

00:27:57.420 the enneagram from pagan mystic richard roar and suzanne herself has taught classes classes

00:28:03.720 at roar's center for action and contemplation not looking good furthermore she and her husband run

00:28:11.540 life in the trinity ministry that's the name of the ministry life in the trinity ministry which

00:28:17.220 is a gay affirming ministry and it flies an lgbtq flag right physically right outside of their

00:28:24.040 headquarters and they have a picture in the article showing it uh bonus here's one more so

00:28:29.620 we've got russell moore and suzanne all right just read you a little background of suzanne

00:28:33.180 uh not a good look okay and one more speaker there's like 20 but one more that i want to

00:28:38.080 highlight you got to get mrs veggie tales in there this is lisa visher who is wife of veggie

00:28:44.920 creator feel uh phil visher so you got phil visher who has just completely deconstructed and

00:28:53.280 makes excuses for uh abortion and exceptions and this and that and makes it like phil visher if

00:29:01.100 you're wondering what what is his view um phil visher is francis collins he's david french he's

00:29:06.440 russell moore he's um wherever there's a drag show happening you can count on phil visher to

00:29:11.680 be there to say i don't agree with it morally but i defend that it should be happening because

00:29:16.340 principled pluralism you know that allows for sexual groomers of children is is a sign of

00:29:21.900 of a healthy christian society that's phil fisher right bob and larry are are extremely disappointed

00:29:30.000 in their creator phil fisher and his wife will be speaking at this enneagram virtual summit okay so

00:29:37.020 it's not great. That's the point. This is not great. You should not be encouraged.

00:29:41.500 Russell Moore is a part of it. That's not great. Phil Vischer's wife, Lisa, not great. Suzanne,

00:29:48.440 her ministry, not great. The origins of the Enneagram, not great. So I've given you a little

00:29:53.760 bit of the background of the Enneagram, the creator of the Enneagram. It's a little bit of

00:29:58.400 its evolution, so to speak. I've also given you just a larger principle of understanding

00:30:06.460 the distinction between christian meditation and mantra eastern meditation and in that light

00:30:12.560 understanding automatic writing and the demonic origins of this and that um there you have it

00:30:17.560 if you're a christian and you're listening to this show um

00:30:20.460 get rid of the enneagram you don't need it you don't need the enneagram to understand

00:30:27.720 anthropology who is man and to understand theology who is god and specifically to understand

00:30:35.580 yourself. Who am I in light of God as creator, in light of Jesus as redeemer, my strengths,

00:30:45.240 my weaknesses, and most importantly, sin? This is what I've noticed. One common denominator. Now,

00:30:50.460 I'm going to speak pastorally now. All right. So this is not strictly theologically, but just in

00:30:54.820 my experience as a pastor and just as a Christian in relationships with people who are real excited

00:31:02.240 about personality tests, right? Myers-Briggs, Enneagram, people who got really excited about

00:31:07.720 the spiritual gift finder test, you know, back in the day with Peter Wagner, all these kinds of

00:31:12.000 things, the five-fold ministry test. And one common denominator that I've just observed is

00:31:18.220 it tends to be people who have low self-esteem, who are struggling with some kind of identity

00:31:27.220 crisis uh who am i and and their journey into these personality tests one of the things that

00:31:35.380 typically happens is um they begin to make excuses for sin they begin to make excuses for sin rather

00:31:44.520 than than viewing sin as sin sin becomes weaknesses sin becomes brokenness sin becomes

00:31:55.920 just, you know, deficiencies, but it's, but it's part of the way God made me. No, sin is not a

00:32:01.660 part of the way that God made you. Sin is not a part of creation. Sin is not a part of God's good

00:32:09.100 and perfect original design. Sin is not something that God did to us. Sin is something that we did

00:32:15.340 to ourselves. It's something that we did in rebellion against God. But what a lot of these

00:32:23.540 personality tests and pop psychology tests and all these things a lot of what what they do is they

00:32:29.020 they suddenly absolve men of their moral culpability for sin rather than i'm like this

00:32:38.400 because i'm a rebel and a sinner and i need to repent and i need to change instead it kind of

00:32:45.700 it subtly says well you can't really change you can maybe improve in this vein but you're not

00:32:52.620 going from here to there you're not going to change veins you're not going to change categories

00:32:57.740 you're always going to be this this basic general type of person because that's how god made you

00:33:04.500 that's not the curse of sin that's not your moral failure that's not something to even be repented

00:33:09.480 of or named as sin that's that's actually god's design that's actually good and yeah there's

00:33:14.840 drawbacks and you want to staff your weaknesses and play to your strengths and you can improve

00:33:18.660 in this category in this vein but but you're never going to really truly transform or change

00:33:25.660 you're never going to really make a 180 degrees difference you know you're going one way and now

00:33:31.420 you're going the other that's not going to happen um the christians that i've seen become enamored

00:33:39.060 with personality tests like the enneagram they tend to downplay sin they tend to minimize repentance

00:33:47.940 they tend to make provisions and excuses for the way that they are that the bible would say

00:33:54.600 is rebellion and sin and needs to be repented of and rather they would say oh it's just a

00:33:58.640 deficiency i need to staff my weaknesses and but this is really who i am and there's strengths to

00:34:02.600 this and baba um it's not good it's not good so don't do it you don't need the enneagram to know

00:34:09.120 god you don't need the enneagram to know yourself and you don't need the enneagram to be further

00:34:16.340 and further sanctified by the power of the spirit by god's grace through faith and repentance and to

00:34:22.000 put your sin to death not excusing it not minimizing it not just um managing it or or or

00:34:30.780 you know quarantining your sin so to speak uh no the bible tells us that we're called to

00:34:39.280 kill our sin and one thing that i've noticed not even pastorally but just as a individual

00:34:46.020 Christian, the follower of Jesus, is I can't kill sin that I don't hate. If you're ever going to

00:34:52.400 kill your sin, mortify your sin, you first have to hate your sin. And if your sin gets jumbled up

00:34:59.920 and mixed into where it's now a part of your personality, it's kind of even a way that God

00:35:08.280 made you and it's hard to hate it's hard to hate your sin if it's a part of you right i mean that's

00:35:18.900 when jesus says love your neighbor as yourself he's assuming self-love he's not commanding self-love

00:35:24.640 he's assuming self-love that's ephesians 5 when paul talks about husbands and wives that you know

00:35:30.060 that the wife is your one flesh and and he says you know husbands no man hated his own flesh but

00:35:37.080 rather nourishes it so too the husband as the head of the wife just as christ is head of the

00:35:41.720 church his body should nourish his wife and nourish his body no man hates his own body

00:35:46.580 hates his own flesh he nourishes his flesh well when sin gets wrapped up into our identity

00:35:55.140 and it's no longer something that we do to be repented of in a and a rebellion against god

00:36:01.860 but it's actually a part of God's design and who we are.

00:36:07.220 Yeah, those kind of subtle conflations of sin and design and creation and personality,

00:36:15.920 it makes it really hard to kill sin because it makes it really hard to hate sin.

00:36:23.680 It makes it really hard to hate sin.

00:36:26.040 Can I be frank with you for just a second right here at the end?

00:36:28.960 look some of you guys you're financially supporting this ministry and from the bottom of my heart i

00:36:34.720 say thank you i cannot thank you enough however some of you you just you can't afford it in fact

00:36:42.900 some of you you shouldn't afford it let's be honest i mean we're living in joe biden's ridiculous

00:36:49.300 economy our nation and our totalitarian political elites lost their minds over the last three years

00:36:58.320 due to COVID. We have written checks that we simply cannot cash. It doesn't matter if people

00:37:05.260 change the definition of a recession. We are living in a recession right now regardless.

00:37:12.160 Some of you are struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the grocery store. You cannot support

00:37:18.460 financially this ministry at this time, nor should you, but you could still help us tremendously.

00:37:25.140 I am asking you, please, if you're willing to do so, take one minute of your time.

00:37:31.700 Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform, iTunes, Spotify, whatever

00:37:37.840 that might be.

00:37:39.100 This is the way the system works.

00:37:41.200 We want to be innocent as doves, but shrewd as vipers.

00:37:45.360 We need to be strategic.

00:37:47.220 You leave us a five-star review, and our podcast shows up for more people.

00:37:51.740 and the Word of God and courageous theology applied in practical ways to every realm of life

00:37:59.380 gets out there. Help us get it out there. Thanks for tuning in.

The NXR Podcast - April 27, 2023

BONUS EPISODE - Russell Moore, The Enneagram, & Gifts Vs. Fruit ｜ Live with Pastor Joel

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