00:03:00.000hello everybody welcome in a shadow at night for monday january the 28th 2025 and you know what
00:03:18.920last thursday night we had ray on ray mcginnis he's the author of unjustified and i think
00:03:28.780I think his time on the show was probably usurped by a special guest that he himself chose to bring
00:03:36.080on the show he was in Ottawa covering the sentencing hearing of Chris Barber and Tamara
00:03:42.520Leach and he brought Tamara on the show last Thursday night for those of you that don't know
00:03:45.940you weren't here I did release a couple of reels of that over the weekend of both Ray and Tamara
00:03:51.940speaking but Tamara probably stayed on a little bit longer than we thought she apologized after
00:03:58.760oh my god I'm so sorry she said I didn't realize I was on for so long of course it's great to have
00:04:03.500Tamara Leach on the show as always especially during all of the nonsense that continues to
00:04:08.700surround her but I felt that it was only fair to bring Ray back on for a solo appearance finally
00:04:15.540tonight we've been trying to do this for a year and a half two years and it's always on a panel
00:04:20.240situation or something else comes up or whatever so finally tonight it is Ray and I and nobody else
00:04:27.980We're going to talk about the book Unjustified, a look at the Freedom Convoy and the Public Order Emergency Commission that got it wrong in just a couple of minutes.
00:04:38.780Who is here watching tonight? Let's see. Kathy is watching from Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.
00:04:44.160Hello, Paul. How you doing? Edna's watching tonight in Victoria.
00:04:48.920Hello, Roseanne. Cheryl Lucette Luella is watching in Red Deer.
00:04:52.700Regina is watching tonight from Surprise, Arizona.
00:04:56.760I'm assuming that's a town and not that we should all be surprised
00:05:00.620or that you should be surprised that you're in Arizona.
00:05:03.800Regina, I'm just making a wild assumption here.
00:07:57.120hello ray welcome back to the show thank you very much for uh finding the time to come back to us
00:08:03.600here oh good to see you again shadow you know i i know that because i i've been really wanting to
00:08:10.300get you on the show just the two of us to have a conversation about all the nonsense that's been
00:08:14.520going on for the past few years and then tamara was there and you graciously gave up a lot of
00:08:19.420your time on the show uh thursday night for tamara you know and i would have done the same thing i
00:08:24.300suppose it's always great to have somebody like that sitting next to you and and on the show so
00:08:29.260thank you for doing that but i thought it was it was an obligation that i had to the viewers and
00:08:34.620to you to have you back on tonight because your book needs to be discussed more in depth and all
00:08:40.040of the crazy things that are going on in the world right now with everything it seems uh need to be
00:08:45.840discussed as well and i know you keep your ear to the ground on a lot of this stuff and so i'm i'm
00:08:50.420looking forward to this discussion thank you for coming back on me too well you know i mean it just
00:08:55.860happened to be it was the day i was speaking with you on your show on thursday happened to be the
00:09:00.900end of two days of the sentencing hearing and there was tamara leach and you know so i thought
00:09:06.260well you know here here she is so it was it was it was good but i'm thank you for having me back
00:09:11.860on your show to just do a one-on-one absolutely so you know you were there you were at the sentencing
00:09:17.380hearing um what were you what were your impressions of what happened well first of all when you're in
00:09:24.680a courtroom for two for two days and you know you know i mean i don't know if it's i guess it's a bit
00:09:29.980air conditioned compared to outside ottawa at that time of year but but it's it's pretty stale air
00:09:36.500and and they don't have the microphones for some people like listening to the to the lead crown
00:09:42.320attorney bringing the Crown's case, arguing for the seven and eight year sentences, respectively.
00:09:50.520I mean, you have to really listen. I thought, am I really, am I needing hearing aids? But no,
00:09:55.760there were rows of people that couldn't hear her very well. I mean, she was stepping up to the
00:10:02.240plate because the lead prosecutor's mother had died and they were not able to be there.
00:10:10.180by the way the ctv and other outlets uh gone it all wrong and thought that chris barber had lost
00:10:17.080one or both of his parents and so he was all of a sudden getting all kinds of emails and messages
00:10:22.420of condolences yeah yeah you know i was asking tamara this the other night and i'm not sure if
00:10:27.660you chimed in on this or not and tamara was very gracious about it but i i said do you get the
00:10:33.420impression that these crown attorneys are actually you know have got their hearts in this
00:10:40.020what's your impression of that do they seem adamant do they seem dedicated to this case
00:10:46.060they're arguing or is it just going through the motions i i think they're dedicated to this case
00:10:50.820i think that they have a uh a sense that they uh are representing something that i mean the
00:10:57.660government has a position and i think that you have you probably when it comes and of course this
00:11:04.720is i think this is the provincial the ontario i mean it is court yeah but nonetheless nonetheless
00:11:09.860the people involved i think i mean one of them who's kind of who was sitting in the back wasn't
00:11:15.720wasn't getting up to speak was karemje and he's a big liberal supporter and you know i i think that
00:11:22.760But there would be a selection that would go on when the Crown wants to assign prosecutors, and they want to make sure that they've got people that feel like this is a cause to pursue to the end, kind of like the police inspector Javert in the musical Les Miserables going after Jean Valjean forever.
00:11:45.080So because the Crown, I mean, the judicial system can't afford in a case like this to assign a prosecutor who's lukewarm and has all kinds of doubts and reservations about their case, because that would start to leak out in unexpected ways in front of the judge.
00:12:07.660So, no, you've got people who are very convinced that seemingly so that this is the you know, this is the worst mischief, mass mischief ever.
00:12:16.720They're really morphing the word mischief. I mean, mischief normally has been like a, you know, a case before a judge is three hours on average.
00:12:25.680Here we have a non-sequential 45 days over nearly two years of a trial.
00:12:33.640And so it's, you know, and here they are.
00:12:37.400I was at, I happened to be at the verdict on April 3rd.
00:12:41.520It was my one day that I was, had an open date in the midst of a two-week book tour with Unjustified in Ontario.
00:12:50.820And I was going to be going to, I was in Pembroke and a few other places, Sydenham.
00:12:55.680north of Kingston. And here was this one day, I thought, well, maybe I'll just do something to
00:13:00.220a round, oh no, I'm going to the verdict. And at that time, it turned out soon after that the Crown
00:13:05.780was going to ask for, I think, two years. So this late ask to up the ante and say, no,
00:13:13.080now we want seven and eight years, respectively. And all of that is really concerning and surprising.
00:13:21.780You know, it never fails to surprise me that there are people out there, because it's just so far removed from my personal mindset, how people out there can believe so fully in the idea that the convoy was an affront to Canadian society, an embarrassment to our country.
00:13:46.020It was a mass racist display, and it kind of reminds me of the narrative that the left-wing corporate media, some local politicians across the country have started in regards to Sean Foyt, who is a gospel musician, who is a mega-supporting gospel musician.
00:14:13.200he's a pastor and he keeps getting canceled and police are in attendance at his shows now or his
00:14:20.480prayer sessions and it just seems like that is the same narrative these people are married to the
00:14:25.720idea that this guy is is causing problems when in actually in actuality all he's doing is spreading
00:14:32.800the word of jesus i mean where does this come from where does this ideology come from i i i think
00:14:40.620that in history uh portions of the of the population some more than others are susceptible
00:14:51.260to a lot of free-floating anxiety you know whether it's the tulip craze and in the netherlands or
00:14:59.020what whatever is going on you know the measles the same measles the measles now the salem witch
00:15:05.020trials back in the uh seven whenever it was and and and on and on there's always going to be
00:15:11.840occasions in history prior to our you know big media these days you know you know back in the
00:15:18.460day it was all that happened the town crier has a has a terrible story i mean the kind of the story
00:15:24.120of chicken little you know from aesop's fables i think you know uh with this going around saying
00:15:29.660the sky is falling because an egg you know or a walnut hits them on the head from a tree and
00:15:35.180then they're running around saying the sky is falling all the all the barnyard animals
00:15:38.620chime in and they're all all agreeing nobody stopped to say hey wait a minute you know so
00:15:43.700I think that so often people in society can hear a catastrophizing alarmist story there's a clear
00:15:52.740and present danger that's named by people you trust or your your mother or your father or one
00:15:58.840your siblings or an uncle or aunt or or your boss or or police inspector or or someone on the news
00:16:05.600or or a or a mayor or or the prime minister and then uh people just take it on faith that it must
00:16:12.300be true and and they and and what happened with the freedom convoy and and other other things as
00:16:18.760well is you have this 24 7 uh alarmist spin with everything you know they're they're arsonists0.75
00:16:26.300They're driving from the West and East Coast all the way to burn down apartment buildings in Ottawa, or they're all Nazis, or they're raping women left, right, and center in broad daylight on Wellington Street.
00:16:38.920All of these kinds of stories, if you keep throwing everything but the kitchen sink and the news reporters and the anchors themselves are breathlessly reporting this, there surely will be some people who are watching it and say, I don't buy it or I'm not sure about this or I don't know what to think or I reserve judgment.
00:16:57.880but there are many people who will watch it that will get caught up in the emotional affect and
00:17:03.460then if it's if it's pushed hard enough and long enough it will get stenciled into them like a
00:17:09.180tattoo and and so that's why today like i will still hear from from people that are part of my
00:17:14.760historic friends that that are still really upset that the the convoy took away our national flag
00:17:21.080and thank god it finally was restored to its rightful place this last july 1st somehow and
00:17:27.040And or that's or that all the protesters were Trump supporters or or or or they were all Americans or or they were all there because the Russians suggested it.
00:17:37.460And so, you know, all of those things, one one would hope a person could sit back and say, how do I know that?
00:17:45.160But if you're emotionally upset, if you're disgusted with what you're, if you're feeling disgust, annoyance, betrayal, whatever it is, anger, you don't have much reason to have sober second thought.
00:18:02.260Are you familiar with the Impact Canada nudge team?
00:18:08.220It is, and it's out of the Privy Council office.
00:18:10.320this is the office of the prime minister of the country and it's about a 15 person unit
00:18:16.960and they are psychological behaviorists these people in this unit kind of like uh what was that
00:18:25.840show there was like a six-person team where they profiled serial killers i forget what it's called
00:18:32.740but that's what these guys were like they profiled people they profiled how they would think in
00:18:38.820certain situations based upon certain factors and how to nudge the canadian public in a way that is
00:18:46.720going to benefit the government narrative and i find that alarming and devious and that is going
00:18:54.940on not just through the convoy but now through well probably through the sean foyte debacle which
00:19:00.640is happening across our country right now do you mind if i play you a 45 second clip from left-wing
00:19:05.860corporate CTV. We can break this down and see exactly where the bias shows itself in this.
00:19:14.040Let's throw it up here. The city of Montreal tried to shut down a concert by a U.S.-based
00:19:18.920Christian musician described as a MAGA superstar. Sean Foyt's concert was scheduled for seven o'clock
00:19:26.080tonight at the Ministerios Restauracion Church in the Plateau. This evening, protesters gathered
00:19:33.260outside of the church to denounce the singer.
00:19:36.100Foyt has spoken out against abortion and the LGBTQ plus community.
00:19:41.140A spokesperson for the city told CTV that the church does not have a permit
00:19:45.220to organize a concert, but it seems in the end the concert went forward.
00:19:49.780The city says a fine will be issued to the church
00:19:51.920because it violated regulations by maintaining the show.
00:19:55.560Six of Foyt's previous Canadian concerts have been canceled.
00:19:59.980Did you catch any bias in there at all?
00:20:03.260well yes yeah there's there's a bias there that that i mean first of all calling him like a mega
00:20:10.360you know that's that's in the first five seconds of that report known as a mega superstar right
00:20:19.100and that's going to get a certain portion of ctv's viewing audience all all in a huff because
00:20:26.280god forbid maga right so so it's uh so i mean a lot of the news a lot of the mainstream news
00:20:34.960begins with let's let's get an emotional hook so that people can get worked up about something
00:20:40.780and and and whatever you know i mean a person could have you know they could bring on a bunch
00:20:46.420other people and talk about the pros and cons of whether or not someone should be concerned about
00:20:50.680the lgbtq xyz community or or not or or or or the or the upside and and the concerns and so on0.99
00:20:58.560but it's it's it's just we've got something that we should be really concerned about and like shut
00:21:03.440it down and like when did when did that become our i mean we're we are we have been a democracy
00:21:09.820and one of the the the things we prided ourselves i mean i back in the day you know i know this is
00:21:14.980very antiquated but i was from from high school onward i would find myself we'd all be assigned
00:21:21.180to be in panel discussions during social studies and discuss you know something that had happened
00:21:26.760in canadian history or something in current affairs and we you know there were six people
00:21:31.980on the panel and then everybody in the classroom would vote or whatever and and i've watched all
00:21:36.440kinds of panel discussions over the years on on news shows and there used to be more of a balance
00:21:43.460of people you know from different sides of the political spectrum but but that's uh seems to be
00:21:51.140uh something that the mainstream media doesn't want want to hear as as the recent guy who
00:21:56.700trevor i forget his last name who who recently left the cbc oh yeah that guy he says he's going
00:22:03.620to tell his story when the time is right i believe it's when his uh his contract is over yeah yeah
00:22:10.260his contract up he's got a uh one of those uh things what do you call that as a non-disclosure
00:22:15.980deal disclosure agreement yeah where he can't say anything for a certain period of time uh you talk
00:22:20.800about the media extensively in the book unjustified and their egregious behavior meaning that you know
00:22:27.060in some cases they lied about certain things and i think the the most prominent one in my opinion
00:22:35.580and maybe you've got a different idea about this would have been the cbc suggesting to then
00:22:40.160uh justice minister what was his name marco mendicino yeah that the russians had somehow
00:22:46.820influenced the uh the attendees of the freedom convoy and that they had somehow created a
00:22:54.820funding situation as well yeah i can't even believe that that a cbc reporter or host would
00:23:03.120even suggest such a thing without any evidence at all and the cbc ombudsman backed that up months
00:23:09.320and months later yes well long after in october of 2022 when when no one was paying attention
00:23:16.280and even even looking months after i did see the report by the cbc always but then it's
00:23:23.080very hard or impossible to find it on you know maybe it's been scrubbed i'm not sure but
00:23:27.960you know this is this is the kind of thing where like why why would anyone you know why would i
00:23:34.020I mean, the CBC is taking a bet when they do that because they're thinking their viewers are going to believe that there are a bunch of people out in Western Canada and some parts of Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes and Newfoundland that, you know, they'd otherwise be curling or, you know, watching, you know, trying to stay warm and watching sitcoms or whatever else.
00:23:57.420But no, suddenly somehow Russian actors and maybe Vladimir Putin himself suggested or whispered in the ear of some people, hey, you should go to Ottawa.
00:24:06.060And they, without without having a brain themselves, thought, yeah, I'll do that because some Russian agents have suggested I should go to Ottawa.
00:24:14.900I have no reason. There's not it's not because I've been fired as a nurse or a paramedic from from my job because I didn't get vaccinated.
00:24:22.860It's not because I've been told I can't get employment insurance now that I've been fired or can't pay my mortgage.
00:24:28.760It's not because I've been told as a truck driver I can go across the border into the States and do some business.
00:24:34.260Once I get back across the border, I have to sequester in quarantine for two weeks before I can have a second job in the course of a month.
00:24:41.560So it's just, it's a sign of how out of touch the media was to even put that as a, to run that as a story. And then also the people watching who thought, yeah, it's Russia. That's why we're there.
00:25:00.760I mean, there's a connection in my book with with all the 76 witnesses that testified before the Public Order Emergency Commission.
00:25:09.360One of them was Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland.
00:25:13.000And all of the witnesses got a pre interview before they went on the stand.
00:25:19.660And she said that, you know, one of the reasons that they wanted to, you know, invoke the Emergencies Act was because they knew that Russia and the Ukraine were very likely going to have go to war and they couldn't afford to have this protest in Ottawa that would make Canada look weak.
00:25:41.940so no we we have to invoke the emergencies act uh crack a few heads in the snow and and and make
00:25:49.220putin shake in his boots because see what we can do to our own our own citizens as if that would
00:25:55.920make them start or stop going to war in the ukraine but but that was the thinking it just0.68
00:26:01.100seems so ridiculous that we have politicians bald-faced lying and there's no remedy for that
00:26:08.840and they're doing it in front of the entire nation seems like every single day whether it's0.98
00:26:15.400covet 19 pandemic whether it's the emergencies act whether it's climate change whatever it
00:26:21.040happens to be but why doesn't our country start standing up and saying no that's a lie and for
00:26:27.900and furthermore because you know i've got a media background so and i know that you've spoken
00:26:32.200extensively to people like rodney palmer who spent years and years and years uh you know
00:26:38.560as a foreign correspondent with pretty much every media network when they were still reputable
00:26:43.020in this country years ago um what is it with the capture is it an ideological thing
00:26:49.560is it that these uh networks are aligned with the liberal government or is it that they are
00:26:56.140captured and they have to do these things like what actually is this well when when the uh when
00:27:05.160the protesters first were rolling out in the west coast on the 22nd of January there was a number
00:27:14.520of reports on the news CBC and some others that there was some gridlock slow rolls happening in
00:27:22.380on the on the highway between the U.S. border in Vancouver and also in the Fraser Valley
00:27:27.380and on that day it was reported in the news that the reason that the truck drivers were
00:27:32.580were protesting was because of the condition of the provincial highways now the following day
00:27:39.760that story was switched around to oh oh it looks like they're going to go to ottawa so
00:27:44.880that became the story and and there was also a story in the 23rd that there were you know
00:27:51.040convoy protesters going through salmon arm british columbia and everything was uh really on the up
00:27:58.260and up. They were well-behaved protesters and so on. But the Liberal cabinet had a retreat on the
00:28:05.08024th of January of 2022. And there were a number of people connected to, I think, the Prime
00:28:10.720Minister's office, Marco Mendocino's office, maybe a number of Bill Blair, Christopher Freeland,
00:28:17.300and so on as junior staffers or deputy ministers who were texting and emailing each other. And
00:28:26.160this came out in the Public Order Mercy Commission, you know, like we, you know, we need to, you know,
00:28:33.420frame this protest, you know, and suggesting a January 6th North, white supremacists, racists, and so on.
00:28:43.760There was somebody, I think, on CTV that was reporting it in, you know, they were saying,
00:28:49.160We have some people in CTV and Global and CBC that can run with this, with our messaging.
00:28:57.420There were people by the 27th of, there was, I think, Caroline Williamson was somebody, I think, connected to Bill Blair's office.
00:29:07.560but uh they had been practicing uh some some some lines like uh we're outraged with the racism and
00:29:17.100and violence that's being expressed by the convoy protesters now this is these are between the 25th
00:29:23.100and 27th that's before they ever arrived in or they ever arrived so people are rehearsing as if
00:29:28.800there's there's a play coming to town on the on the 28th of of january of 2022 and we over here
00:29:36.700in the media are rehearsing our lines but why i mean like they were they controlled and and i'm
00:29:46.200asking for opinion here and not fact and i want people to understand that okay well i we i think
00:29:54.940we know through the trusted news initiative that that that there's you know there was having people
00:30:00.760all be on board with one message about what the COVID-19 virus, the clear and present
00:30:07.800danger to us all, as was happening in the UK and Germany and Australia and New Zealand
00:30:14.720So there was a message that people who are dissenting from the pandemic measures, with
00:30:22.320lockdown, firing people from their jaws for not getting the shot and so on, all of anybody
00:30:29.760Anybody who was expressing dissent, a rogue doctor, physician, you know, paramedic would be quickly sent, you know, up to the physicians, at least to the College of Physicians and Surgeons and discipline, lose their license or threaten.
00:30:53.480The media is all part of that messaging from the government.
00:30:56.960uh i so so you said the trusted news initiative and i want to back up on that because i haven't
00:31:03.780mentioned that a lot lately and i think we've got some new viewers since the last time i brought
00:31:08.200that up can you explain what that is please so the trusted news initiative was was a a collaborate
00:31:15.080a collaborative effort between different governments and news agencies in canada the
00:31:22.320United States, I mean the BBC, similar counterparts in New Zealand, Australia, across numbers of
00:31:30.920mostly Western European nations like Spain and France, who are all about putting forth the same
00:31:37.960message. Their task is to ferret out what the story that they're going to put out there,
00:31:45.760and anything that doesn't align with it is going to be denounced as misinformation or
00:31:52.140malinformation or whatever so information yeah right so so uh so the cbc was one of the partners
00:32:00.720in that and certainly what people experienced if you were in canada and you happen to have
00:32:06.860relatives in australia or the uk or germany or france or the netherlands you could talk on the
00:32:13.560phone to your relatives and find out the very same thing the very same messaging was coming out of
00:32:18.860their news agencies too so that was all part of uh part of what was going on in terms of making
00:32:24.780sure that one message uh was allowed and anybody who had uh the other any other point of view
00:32:32.220was was was put in the penalty box i know you talk about the public order emergency commission
00:32:39.140in the book unjustified again our guest guys by the way tonight is ray mckennessy is the author
00:32:43.980of that book um did you have any faith at all that justice rouleau was going to look at this
00:32:51.240through an unbiased lens when it first started because i i remember and i covered it extensively
00:32:57.220on the show here i remember thinking that people were were so they were so excited to hear the
00:33:03.580testimony of people like tamara and chris chris deering maggie hope brunt all of the people um
00:33:09.120who spent significant amount of time in Ottawa during that during the convoy and to see Trudeau
00:33:16.620get called out and all of those other ministers get called out. But I was a little bit more
00:33:22.560skeptical. I thought, well, Rouleau has got some kind of a connection to Trudeau or at least the
00:33:26.700Trudeau Foundation back then. He's a liberal. He's been a liberal for 30 or 40 years. I thought there
00:33:34.300was no chance in hell there was going to be any kind of fair ruling that came out of that. Not
00:33:38.020that it would be binding anyway but what were your thoughts going into that yeah so i mean i went i
00:33:43.840i chose to attend i was there the week of the 14th to 18th of november 2022 i didn't know very much
00:33:51.220about him i learned that he was uh in an advisory capacity to former liberal prime minister john
00:33:59.300turner back in the early to mid 80s so so he's a partisan liberal uh one can hope in brackets one
00:34:09.540can hope or in quotation marks that that somebody in a position who's supposed to be running an
00:34:15.340inquiry about you know what went right or wrong with with a government decision to invoke the
00:34:20.020most extreme measure the mercies act would be uh fair-minded and there were in the week that i was
00:34:27.520there there were some example you know some indications that there was some fair-mindedness
00:34:32.800going on in terms of how he would how he would handle you know cross-examination or brendan
00:34:38.960miller or or other people from uh jccf or the civil rights i forget the the guy who was with
00:34:46.040several people from three or four different different groups representing interests that
00:34:51.780were uh questioning the government as even you know the lawyers for the provinces of alberta
00:34:57.340saskatchewan and and there there was both uh moments where rouleau was giving you know saying
00:35:06.540oh you know we've already heard lots of evidence that the uh that the four triggers to invoke the
00:35:12.940emergencies act uh which are in the legislation from 1988 uh sabotage espionage serious violence
00:35:21.660that neither the police or the military can handle or a plot to overthrow the government.
00:35:28.480There's no, you know, so we say we've already heard, you know, from the CSIS director,
00:35:32.400David Vigneault and others, you know, we already know that those triggers weren't in play.
00:35:40.560So I think, well, he's going to rule that this is, you know, that much as the government
00:35:46.060had a catastrophic sense of what was happening.
00:35:49.840I mean, Natalie Drouan, who was the deputy clerk of the Privy Council, testified, and she basically said, you know, she's one of the people that recommended to the prime minister to invoke the Emergencies Act.
00:36:03.320Well, she's saying, well, there were children who were like human shields.
00:36:09.580And she went on about how we had to invoke the Emergencies Act, because if we hadn't, then there might have been a real threat.
00:36:15.800So that comes across as like she's saying, well, we had to preemptively invoke the Emergency's Act so that in case a real threat came along, we already had things under wraps.
00:36:27.720But that's not how the Emergency Act is designed to be deployed.
00:36:32.940And we had Janice Charette, who also recommended the Prime Minister to vote the Emergencies Act, and she was saying on the stand, you know, she's got this incident response group made from a bunch of people from different important groups within the government who are all weighing in on their assessment of what the freedom, what the protest is.
00:36:59.440They're not really going in amongst the crowd or having anyone do that. It's more kind of looking at it through with binoculars. And then she's saying she at one point she got her best information about what was happening on the ground from watching the nightly news.
00:37:15.520so so this is the this is this is the key you know key people who were making recommendations
00:37:22.240the prime minister have this have this state of mind this catastrophizing so i i think that i
00:37:28.920think that partly what was in play was both uh determination from you know from from the 24th of
00:37:36.040of january we have the paper trail of of the of the emails and and and text messages to to depict
00:37:43.500the convoy in a certain way. But in addition to that, I think that there is almost like a
00:37:49.840psychological type that kind of rises up above the others in government positions like these,
00:37:59.260where a person probably has more anxiety than most of us and is given to alarmism and
00:38:06.780catastrophizing, saying, oh, my God, I'm the person in charge. It's got to be a lot worse
00:38:40.940there was continual violence well what do you mean well there was honking of horns you know
00:38:45.460which at that point bruleau said it's already been established that the horn honking for all
00:38:50.580intents and purposes ceased on the 7th a full week before now there were of course people coming to
00:38:58.040the convoy all the time and some people didn't get the memo who just newly arrived from quebec or
00:39:03.300or southwestern ontario or manitoba and and they came in maybe they honked a horn then they were
00:39:08.980told by the roadblock captain stop honking your horn but it was you know it was night and day in
00:39:14.900terms of the difference it was the honking of horns after the 7th and before the 7th but they
00:39:19.860were discussing that the horn honking was violence and i think that's probably going to be brought up
00:39:25.420in the civil case that paul champ has got coming up at some point as well that i'm sure you're very
00:39:30.340interested in uh did it surprise you well let me just add yeah the rcmp themselves said that horn
00:39:38.960honking was not violence i mean in my reports it's outrageous that you see this is the new way
00:39:44.620of thinking this is the crt thing this is you know if you speak badly or you say something i
00:39:52.740don't agree with then they're saying these days these young kids that it's violence towards them
00:39:58.640and that's a problem that is a massive problem because there's no way you can ever have a civil
00:40:05.760conversation if somebody is going to go running for the corner or their safe space anytime you
00:40:11.100disagree with them. Speaking of disagreeing, did it surprise you during the Public Order
00:40:17.740Emergency Commission that you covered in person that all three of the police services who were
00:40:23.740involved with this, that's the RCMP, the OPP, and the Ottawa Police, that they didn't coordinate
00:40:30.820so well they didn't know what each other were doing it seemed like at least to me yes that
00:40:37.800that came out that there was there was not uh you know the and and different policing groups were
00:40:44.740not happy with each other at different points i mean there i mean they were throwing each other
00:40:48.900under the bus during the commission i thought it was hilarious yeah there was you know there was
00:40:53.340that one uh kind of crackdown on the uh you know there were protesters who who had uh you know
00:41:00.460Once there were a certain number of vehicles in the Wellington and downtown, others were told, no, go over to what was an area called Coventry.
00:41:08.500And at one point there were, you know, police cracking down on the protesters, snipers and so on. And there were other people either within the same other units within the same police force or other police forces that were very unhappy with what the people in question had done.
00:41:30.700And so there was a lot of different attitudes even towards key people who were working effectively with police liaison teams like Tom Marazzo, the army captain, and others who were finding they'd get one message here and then another message there.
00:41:54.580But I would say about the police and intelligence, you know, writ large, what they were saying, I mean, none of them asked for the government to invoke the Emergencies Act, you know, they were, and they were working on a plan to de-escalate things, and they were satisfied that it would be effective.
00:42:16.940The city of Ottawa and numbers of people representing the convoy had had fruitful negotiations to begin to remove 75% of the protest vehicles by the end of the 16th of February.
00:42:37.980Now, that only got to be 102 vehicles by noon on the 14th, because very soon there were police that were putting up barricades, impeding the further movement of vehicles out of the city or over to Wellington Street.
00:42:51.780So let me ask you this. I mean, why would they do that?
00:42:54.940Why would they impede the progress of these vehicles to move out of the downtown if they wanted them out so badly?
00:43:02.320Or was that a setup? Again, this is an opinion.
00:43:05.380question i think i think it i think a setup is a good a good uh explanation because if you want a
00:43:11.220showdown you're not going to want to have i mean one of the things that was part of the messaging
00:43:16.240coming out of the government all along was these people are you know fringe minority they're racist0.98
00:43:21.260white supremacists they're the worst of the worst there is no point even having the prime minister0.99
00:43:26.960or or somebody else you know delegated from government to come and have a conversation with1.00
00:43:32.260with some people who are protesting in some room somewhere
00:43:36.320because they're just impossible to deal with.
00:43:39.520But now you have the city of Ottawa with some senior people
00:44:02.260And so if you ended up having 75% of the vehicles gone, you know, maybe they'd just go over to Arnprior or some other place waiting perhaps to come back. But nonetheless, if you had that kind of success, it'd be very difficult to go ahead and try and invoke the Emergencies Act on the 17th of February.
00:44:20.440The window of opportunity to say we have an unmanageable crisis, a national emergency, was slipping away.
00:44:28.480So the government had to act fast if their plan was to invoke the Emergencies Act.
00:44:33.900You know, it's interesting that you would say that because, I mean, you know, Coots was going on at the same time.
00:44:41.580And some people believe that that is the real reason that the Emergencies Act was called to get those folks off the line.
00:44:49.520But they had already moved off the line before the Emergency Act came into play.
00:44:55.660But getting back to the Ottawa situation, there's one question, and I'm not sure.
00:45:03.760We know there was negotiations happening, or at least an attempt at negotiations between government and the protesters,
00:45:11.680and not because of the Liberal government, not because of Trudeau or any of his ministers, any of his cabinet.
00:45:16.180it. Conservative MPs and critics were desperately trying to get the government to sit down. And I
00:45:23.520saw a video that leaked over the weekend. Of course, you couldn't have covered this in your
00:45:27.700book because it's only recently become public. Trudeau adamantly opposed to any kind of
00:45:34.420conversation with any representatives of the convoy. But we didn't know that at the time,
00:45:39.780did we? No. What came out at the inquiry was that there was a, I think, police liaison team,
00:45:49.760although I can't be sure, but I think Leslie Jean is the name of this officer,
00:45:57.720either an OPP or Ottawa police. But in either case, they were recommending that the government,
00:46:05.320I mean, early on, they were recommending to the government that they sit down because they said, you know, we had this big protest of some highways and a rail service was shut down for many weeks between early January and mid-March of 2020 when people were protesting about pipelines.
00:46:31.120And there were ferry services canceled out in the West Coast and so on.
00:46:35.800And so they said, remember what we did?
00:46:38.380We sat down with some of the protest leaders and we wound things up.
00:46:44.820And so these kinds of sensible, constructive suggestions were being waved away.
00:46:51.920As you pointed out now, we know how much resistance there was to any discussion.
00:46:57.480Well, there was a guy, Dean French, who is a close advisor to Doug Ford and one of his close friends. Dean French was brought in by Brian Peckford to see if he could somehow somehow bridge the gap between the liberal government and the protest.
00:47:13.520and um so people were asking what his involvement in this was and why was he involved in the first
00:47:19.840place and then they're trying of course to tie forward to the liberal government which you can
00:47:24.440do uh through phone calls and through what he said lately about mark carney and the fact that
00:47:30.600carney spent the night at his cottage up north of toronto last week but anyway um it seemed as
00:47:36.420though dean french was actually trying in good faith to get some kind of meeting and you know
00:47:42.760the optics of that would have been great for the entire country if you wanted to unite people
00:47:49.020you make a deal you get them to move out maybe you capitulate to one or two of these demands
00:47:55.060and then you you mark a win up on the board justin trudeau could have done that but instead
00:48:00.560he chose to dig his heels in call people an extreme right-wing threat uh what was the correct
00:48:08.500I can't even remember what he said now, an unacceptable, unacceptable fringe minority,
00:48:12.940unacceptable fringe minority. And why would he do that? Would you say that's petulance? That's
00:48:18.720just Justin Trudeau being a man child? Or was there something else involved there?
00:48:24.600Well, let me just mention that Dean French did concretely get involved in helping make
00:48:32.520connections with the city of ottawa staffers and the and the convoy and if he was also involved in
00:48:39.600trying to to uh negotiate something with the federal government i'm not i'm not personally
00:48:45.300aware of it although it's certainly possible that that was also another avenue being explored
00:48:49.700with with the with the government i mean if you have i mean from time to time governments want
00:48:57.100want more power and and and so there's a there's a if you have a strategy of tension
00:49:04.300maybe it's climate change you know maybe it's uh what whatever it is but but or or or is or we're
00:49:14.240having an insurrection you know these kinds of of of of allegations uh can can be an opportunity
00:49:23.680for uh for leaders of government to to appear to be like the lone ranger coming in you know on a
00:49:31.200horse and riding into ottawa and saving the nation from from terrible mercenaries and
00:49:36.640and insurrectionists and trump supporters and and putin supporters and so on and and so it's
00:49:42.720it's a putin supporters it's a gamble that that that that that we can see different leaders of
00:49:49.820different countries make over history. And goofy as it is, you'd normally want to say,
00:49:58.340well, wouldn't a person in leadership want to find a way to say, let's just have a conversation.
00:50:05.860Let's give one out of 10 things the protesters want. They're here. They're really cold. They
00:50:12.180want to go back home anyway, but they don't want to lose face. So let's give them a few
00:50:16.060a few uh a few things and then um you know or promise we could promise a few things like we'll
00:50:23.700have a we'll have a panel discussion with dr theresa tam a week a week tuesday now you go home
00:50:30.000what we know like the wizard of oz might do you know to dorothy and her friends but but no you
00:50:35.560know it's it's not not not not in the cards to say okay everyone we found a way to have this
00:50:42.960discussion with a few reasonable people here who are protesting and now everyone can calm down and
00:50:48.640you know go back to your sitcoms instead the the option was let's let's uh let's uh clobber people
00:50:56.360and let's invoke the emergencies act and and let's see what uh what can happen if we freeze some
00:51:01.140people's bank accounts let's yeah the freezing of the bank accounts too like how much did mark
00:51:05.700carney have to do with that did we only just find out recently that that was pretty much his idea
00:51:10.420because everybody was pointing their finger at Freeland at the time.
00:51:14.340Well, Mark Carney was certainly in a financial advisory capacity
00:51:21.260with the government from 2020 going forward.
00:51:26.000I haven't seen any documents, but it's, you know, as he's...
00:51:30.920Well, he wrote an article in the National Post, I read Globe and Mail,
00:51:51.780I guess nobody would have put it together back then because nobody cared about Mark Carney back then, right?
00:51:56.400Like, who cares? Mark Carney, like, who's he?
00:51:58.520Nobody even knew who he was in 2022, really.
00:52:01.520Some people, obviously, but not the vast majority.
00:52:04.400Those of us who look on Wikipedia and look at all the names of the governors of the Bank of Canada and the governors of the Bank of England over time might be well familiar with his name.
00:52:17.900But no, most people were not thinking about that.
00:52:20.480But certainly, I think that it's a red flag to have somebody now as prime minister who may very well have been suggesting in a, you know, at a nice mealtime conversation in someone's home like Christopher Freeland's, wouldn't it be a good idea to, you know, if the emergency, you could just opine, you know, should the Emergencies Act be invoked?
00:52:47.380i wonder what would happen if you froze people's bank accounts sort of put it out like that i don't
00:52:52.120know you know i'll tell you that this debanking thing eva chipiak was debanked last week
00:52:57.440i think it was on thursday and uh she put it up on x i think she's been on with viva fry and she's
00:53:04.340been on with rebel news and even a couple of big american networks talking about this debanking
00:53:10.440thing and i don't know if it's because of her politics or if she did something wrong uh with
00:53:15.680one of her accounts she put up the letter on x yeah but i'm thinking like wow man like this is
00:53:23.560something that seems to be picking up momentum in this country we've got uh people attacking churches
00:53:31.780now uh because of the government narrative that is uh supported by the media uh we've got banks
00:53:38.300just sending letters to people whose political views they don't agree with how bad is this going
00:53:45.500to get ray well i i think i read that letter that that eva had and it's like your your your
00:53:53.480relationship with this royal bank of canada is over by the 18th of august so you know get your
00:53:58.820house in order and move your move your account somewhere else i think i mean banking is not a
00:54:03.620luxury in this country you need a bank account in order to be able to do anything really i i think
00:54:10.520so because if if everybody knew that you had all of your money under your mattress at home then
00:54:16.040there might be somebody who wants to go and rob rob your house well there's that but i mean what
00:54:20.600i mean is like you got to pay anything right if you want to buy something you know you want a
00:54:25.320credit card you gotta have a bank you do you know so when they take it away from you plus you and
00:54:31.080you know all five banks own each other so they're all going to be following the same protocols
00:54:36.040you know thank god for bow valley credit union in alberta uh who came to eva's rescue so she
00:54:41.960did manage to get her house in order but like do you see this getting worse and worse and worse
00:54:48.520it it it could what we don't know and i don't think she knows she can't she doesn't know what
00:54:56.120what was it was it was it her being one of the lawyers for the freedom uh for some of the the
00:55:02.200you know people who are testifying at the public order emergency inquiry is it something she said
00:55:08.020on her show uh you know which just seems like a very reasonable you know dialogue over division
00:55:14.080she's one of the more reasonable ones out there as a matter of fact i'm constantly on top of her
00:55:19.100to say eva you got to get a little more aggressive come on you know yeah she's very affable and and
00:55:25.940very hospitable to people with different points of view so but you know if if that's all it takes
00:55:33.060is for someone to simply be airing different points of view including uh making having a
00:55:39.520platform for descending points of view there's a lot of people they're going to have to start
00:55:43.580worrying about about where their banking is going to be happening within the next few years
00:55:48.120it's probably designed to chill descent right this is just another one of the tools they have
00:55:53.340in their toolbox there's one more thing that i want to ask you um the day they brought out the
00:56:00.280cops and they started smashing heads i think that was on valentine's day 2022 wasn't it
00:56:04.720i think it was the 18th the 18th so it was a few days later yeah yeah so uh and it was two days of
00:56:11.440it the kettling and then you know people like maggie getting down on their knees and uh drawing
00:56:19.440a line if you will yeah these officers there's still a lot of speculation as to where they came
00:56:26.800from where they were deployed from were they mostly opp were they mostly rcmp we know there
00:56:32.320was a great deal of them who were rcmp from all over the country but we're still hearing rumors
00:56:38.140about un troops and planes that had landed in north bay and troops that bused from north bay
00:56:44.460to ottawa uh there was no insignia on their uniforms it appeared to some of the protesters
00:56:51.000that the people who were standing on that line did not understand the english language or even
00:56:56.620the french language what have you heard about that and you know if you don't want to speculate
00:57:01.400i totally understand but i'd like to hear your thoughts i mean what i have heard was the numbers
00:57:07.800of the security, the provincial Quebec police were there. Certainly, and also numbers of
00:57:17.000police detached from Toronto area who were there as well. The police who had been there
00:57:26.620overseeing the situation, quite a number of them, or maybe a majority of them, were moved out of
00:57:36.380the situation because they developed a constructive and positive relationship with the protesters.
00:57:42.080So now you instead have police from other parts of Ontario and Quebec, for sure, who have been told
00:57:52.780dreadful things about who these protesters are. They're an unacceptable fringe minority,
00:57:58.180they're insurrectionists, they're mercenaries, and so on. And so then you end up having RCMP
00:58:03.820officers and their text messages saying you know don't you know don't don't finish them off before
00:58:09.720i get a chance to come in and crack some heads too these are the text messages of different people
00:58:15.680as well as people saying things like that on on instagram so so there was uh there was a uh a
00:58:23.520depiction of who the protesters were that that was put out to police police policing groups that
00:58:31.340were far outside of the ottawa area and then they came i can't i can't con i can't comment
00:58:37.660with certainty anything about un troops or or foreign mercenaries or whatever else because i
00:58:43.320don't i mean i've asked tom marazzo about he he thinks it's more more you know domestic but
00:58:49.360domestic that were far far afield from ottawa police so so what's the craziest rumor you heard
00:58:57.300about that just what i just said yeah well yeah that that they're you know like mercenary i mean
00:59:04.820mercenaries from like soldiers of fortune uh you know somebody had wondered i i you know i don't
00:59:10.920i don't know what about that text chain that was exposed to the public right around that time from
00:59:16.620all of the officers who were staying at the chateau laurier there who were so very happy to
00:59:21.420be there cracking heads and running uh people down with their horses how come that didn't get more
00:59:26.020attention well it didn't make it didn't make uh the headline news on cbc that's for sure i mean
00:59:32.720these these are these are the kind of details that that that are not part of what's cherry picked
00:59:39.320when global tv or ctv or cbc or the globe and mail toronto star wants to cover the story there
00:59:46.500were all kinds of things that were very concerning that came out as well as a lot of would you call
00:59:51.740that a detail to me that's a massive story well yes it's yeah it's a it's a massive story as is
00:59:59.320all of the exonerating you know the code of conduct that all the protesters had to sign
01:00:04.940before they went into ottawa saying we're going to be peaceful and lawful and non-violent i mean
01:00:09.920that that should have been a story i mean that should have been a story from you know on the
01:00:14.420weekend the 29th 30th of uh of january uh to remind canadians oh isn't it great these people
01:00:21.540protesting have all signed a code of conduct we didn't have that at all in the news no nothing
01:00:26.940like that your book is unjustified and people can grab by the way you've been very generous with the
01:00:32.500proceeds of that book in many different places and on many different occasions ray and i want
01:00:36.760to thank you for that uh the ostrich farm notably is the most recent i think yeah yes yeah i'm i
01:00:42.720mean i i think i mean it somehow fell to me that i decided to go out out to the poec and uh i i
01:00:51.360hadn't planned to write a book but but you know that's that's the way things rolled when i was
01:00:57.420encouraged to do more than just write some articles so you're a writer that's what you do man that's
01:01:02.240what i do so yeah i'm happy to give uh proceeds of the sales of the book to the ostrich farms and
01:01:07.500other other places 25 a book so you know but it's i should mention it's also available on
01:01:14.560ebook and audiobook for those that prefer those platforms did you narrate that yourself or did
01:01:20.040you get somebody else to do that no sutherland house publisher has their what i'll call stable
01:01:27.500of of readers they've got the in-house people well you know what next time you do that and
01:01:31.920you're looking for uh somebody to read your audiobook i've got some experience doing that
01:01:35.820i'd be happy to do that for you oh great great yeah yeah um where can we find it amazon is it
01:01:41.220all over the place it's on amazon uh and it's on kobo barnes and noble it's uh you know you can
01:01:48.780order it through your your favorite bookstore and and i also think uh for those that are that
01:01:54.780don't have a lot of of ka-ching around they can ask their local library to get a coffee because0.99
01:02:01.360it's it's it's probably a you know a book that should be in more libraries too do do we have1.00
01:02:07.120libraries still we do as long as people patronize them yeah all right ray thank you for coming on
01:02:14.700tonight really appreciate it and of course you're going to be coming back at some point soon when
01:02:18.540there's more to discuss and i certainly hope you consider because we did talk a couple of
01:02:23.580weekends ago about some new subject matter for another book uh that i would like to see you
01:02:28.780write i believe well i'll keep you posted all right man thanks for having me on your show
01:02:34.640thank you ray see you again guys i've got more we'll be right back in 30
01:02:48.540tomorrow night on the show amrit baring joins he's the bc politician who believes that pierre
01:03:15.560Polyev and the Conservative Party of Canada lost the election on purpose.
01:03:22.740So he's going to be joining the show on Tuesday night and then tomorrow night.
01:03:27.360You know, this whole cancellation thing is starting to go a little bit crazy.
01:03:31.520It was going crazy a couple of years ago.
01:03:34.180Remember, people couldn't get venues to host different events if they had the wrong political beliefs.
01:03:39.740And that seemed to calm down for a while.
01:47:24.220In 1998, they signed me her birth date on my birth certificate, which they waited 10 years to file, claiming my stepmother was my biological mother.
01:47:37.900And finally put me in school in the gifted program, telling me I was tall.
01:47:45.720I thought it was very strange that my mother was so callous with me.
01:47:50.940I knew it wasn't normal that I wouldn't let her touch me on the shoulder.
02:32:00.100I don't know if we were in Steamboat or in Preckinridge, but I've met them a few times and boasted all the time about how well she got along with Bill.
02:32:12.460She boasted about that even when we were sober.
02:32:18.640So Bill tried to distance himself from Jeffrey.
02:32:22.240Do you think there was a lot more going on between them?
02:35:08.140i know exactly who donald trump was talking about and he spoke of the new york elites
02:35:14.820during his first campaign cycle he had no mention of them during the re-election
02:35:20.640because after that first presidency he realized he had no pull on his own strings
02:35:27.380and he was not going to be able to do anything to expose this
02:35:31.780i believe obama wanted to do a lot more that he promised in his campaigns
02:35:39.320as far as reasonable socialization of our resources you know to bring us up with the
02:35:49.980rest of the developed worlds when it comes to providing housing and health care and basic
02:35:55.420human rights and found his hands tied because in america people must be kept poor and busy
02:36:07.420so they don't realize how much more power they have when they are unified
02:36:14.940and would you say that these politicians who are compromised it's of a sexual nature mostly
02:36:20.140When people, if politician is not born into the cult, they are forced to engage in criminal acts or submit themselves so that those who are born in trust they cannot snitch on what they are witnessing because the family's got dirt on them too.
02:36:47.540We see the same thing in Hollywood and in the music industry.0.93
02:36:53.100There's a long tradition of black men wearing dresses after they make it famous.
02:37:00.060It's not because they're forced to wear a dress.
02:37:04.100It's because they're using that to communicate with each other and tell their viewers, I had to submit to get here.
02:37:13.200which takes us to the portrait of bill clinton in the dress at jeffrey's house
02:59:47.800And like I said to you in comments, I have put in a request to her through her TikTok channel to hopefully get her on the show and we can talk more about it.
02:59:56.780Those of you on Rumble, you got the extension tonight.
03:00:00.720And we're going to be doing a lot more in here very, very soon.
03:00:03.420So go ahead and sign up as a member. ShadowDavis.com. Become a Nighthawk. All access Nighthawk and join the Shadow at Night community on Telegram. I love you guys. Thank you for your support. And I will see you again tomorrow night with our guest Amrit Baring, BC politician who believes that the Conservatives lost the election intentionally. All right. Bye for now. Good night.