The Shadoe Davis Show - November 28, 2024


Nov. 27th⧸2024- Guest MK-Ultra Survivor & author Ann Diamond


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 23 minutes

Words per minute

165.25

Word count

23,748

Sentence count

320

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

14

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Thank you.
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00:03:30.000 hello everybody welcome it is shadow at night for wednesday november the 27th 2024 and on the
00:03:47.960 show tonight this happened very quickly i wasn't expecting to have a guest on the show tonight and
00:03:54.160 then got into a conversation with a friend called jan and we started talking about that interview
00:04:00.600 that patrick bet david did with annika lucas and how that is just raging across the internet these
00:04:08.700 past couple of days and jan started talking about a friend of hers who had been through the hell of
00:04:16.240 mk ultra back in the late 1950s and the early 1960s and i went yeah mk ultra that's brutal
00:04:23.040 jan connected us lady's name is ann diamond she is an author and a survivor of mk ultra
00:04:32.080 the mk ultra experiments that were held in canada between 1957 and 1964 they went on longer in the
00:04:41.540 united states and many people when we say that when we find that out are are surprised
00:04:50.340 that mk ultra happened in canada if they don't know about it and the other thing that you get
00:04:56.680 a lot of is the second you say mk ultra a normie will start saying conspiracy you're a conspiracy
00:05:02.200 theorist even though it's documented it is a part of history it's a very dark part of history and
00:05:09.460 we're going to hear much much more about it tonight from ann diamond who lived it as a very
00:05:14.720 young child the shadow at night live stream is brought to you by canada nanosilver.com canada
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00:05:58.200 a retail location, you can find one. There's over 30 all across the country scattered in Quebec,
00:06:02.860 in newfoundland manitoba ontario saskatchewan alberta british columbia all of the locations
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00:06:14.840 of these awesome products get a hold of kevin and anna through the contact tab at canadananosilver.com
00:06:20.600 again that is canadananosilver.com quickly some hellos who's watching tonight dan is watching
00:06:26.840 in ross manitoba hello kathy watching in new brunswick john is watching tonight
00:06:31.660 john where are you watching john are you in manitoba lulu is
00:06:36.720 guys stop telling me where you're watching from dally's watching from oh you're in quebec all
00:06:44.280 right linda's watching in calgary tonight hello greg how you doing bren is watching in cambridge
00:06:51.280 ontario robert's watching in colonna this is more like it colleen is watching in maydock ontario
00:06:56.020 sharon is watching in swift current saskatchewan on youtube and eddie tony they're watching from
00:07:03.060 calgary lucette is watching in saint jean baptiste wherever you guys are watching from tonight on
00:07:08.480 whatever platform whether it's facebook whether it's youtube whether it's x twitch rumble telegram
00:07:13.880 shadow davis.com get it out there to as many people as you possibly can simply by liking
00:07:19.680 and sharing let's get this out there it's very important people learn about this and the fact
00:07:25.720 that it was real it happened there are people out there who can tell the stories like ann diamond
00:07:31.720 who joins us right now hello and thank you for coming on tonight on such short notice i know
00:07:37.500 you've got a trip planned and you're at a bed and breakfast right now you're not at home but you're
00:07:42.840 taking the time to come on and talk to us tonight i want to uh before we actually begin our
00:07:48.080 conversation tonight i want to let people know that mk ultra even though it was an experiment
00:07:52.440 that was funded and started by the cia that's the central intelligence agency in the united states
00:07:59.380 these experiments did happen in canada and they were coordinated and run by a guy called
00:08:06.880 dr donald cameron he was a scottish psychiatrist creator of psychic driving this concept
00:08:13.680 which is strange the cia found that interesting so they brought him aboard and interestingly
00:08:20.780 he was part of the nuremberg trials trying to get a psychoanalyst of rudolph hess i believe
00:08:31.500 in 1947 he also introduced something called electroconvulsive therapy using electrodes on
00:08:41.860 a patient's head at 30 or 40 times the normal power whatever the normal power will be when
00:08:49.700 somebody attaches an electro to your head and again thank you for coming on tonight i appreciate
00:08:56.800 you taking the time how you you told me just before we went on live tonight that you were
00:09:03.740 four years old when you were drawn into this nightmare what did this happen i'm smiling
00:09:10.700 because i'm playing with my phone i i was trying to send some last minute messages to people to
00:09:15.900 tell them and now they're all texting me back so i had to switch them off excuse me good
00:09:20.360 good evening hello it's nice to meet you um um yes i was four years old when uh i got
00:09:27.920 well essentially i was sold to dr cameron by my father who was an air force intelligence officer
00:09:40.600 and a school teacher at the time in Montreal and I think was being blackmailed also and pressured
00:09:48.120 into handing his children over to this, what seemed to be, you know, I don't know, a very
00:09:56.760 interesting and important and for national security and a patriotic, you know, effort
00:10:03.780 to fight communism
00:10:06.580 or, you know, at McGill,
00:10:09.260 this psychiatric experiment
00:10:12.680 that they were running.
00:10:14.240 Is that how they were selling it to people
00:10:16.160 as a fight communism campaign?
00:10:19.720 We need volunteers to come and help us
00:10:23.420 run experiments?
00:10:25.380 Was that what they were doing?
00:10:25.840 Yes, in the United States.
00:10:28.380 That went over, of course,
00:10:30.860 with Americans much more.
00:10:32.540 It was, you know, it really, you know, 1950, okay, 1953 is when MKUltra officially was signed into existence by CIA director Alan Dulles at the time, and his whole thing was fighting communism.
00:10:50.600 it was the red scare you know he was he he used the threat of communism to push through all kinds
00:10:56.120 of you know his own agendas and he was a master of uh disinformation i guess you could say and
00:11:03.600 and counterintelligence and he ran a network around you know he was an amazing man i mean a
00:11:10.180 terrible man and there's a book amazing and terrible evil i would say and he's got an airport
00:11:14.740 named after him down there too it's crazy yeah dallas yeah um and you know he was behind uh
00:11:21.700 well i would say he was probably behind the kennedy assassination definitely a big player
00:11:25.900 in that because kennedy had you know it's a whole story dallas wanted the invasion of it wanted an
00:11:32.180 invasion of the bay of pigs and kennedy was was trying to anyway kennedy was against his his plan
00:11:38.740 to attack cuba and so he had it seems he had kennedy killed i mean that's one of the
00:11:45.300 strong theories you know what we should say go any further i'm sorry to interrupt you and what
00:11:50.340 we should say because last night's show we had a vaccine injury on last night and even though it's
00:11:55.140 been diagnosed by doctors youtube decided or at least their algorithms decided to take that show
00:12:01.060 down today so what we should say before we go yeah you know censorship so before we go any further
00:12:08.880 what we should say to the youtube algorithm i'm saying this right to your face ai is that tonight
00:12:14.140 we are talking about factual things that a person has actually been through in her life but we'll
00:12:20.720 also throw out some theories as well regarding certain things because there's so much that we
00:12:26.320 can discuss tonight and um i mean and here's something for a little bit down the road we
00:12:32.600 don't need to get into this right now just because the viewers right they're anxious to have you on
00:12:36.840 and they didn't know and i didn't know up until this afternoon that you dated leonard cohen
00:12:43.160 and well he was that's not a major distinction in montreal for women of my generation i mean
00:12:51.680 I mean, most of us dated Leonard Cohen at one time or another.
00:12:55.380 I'm just kidding.
00:12:56.260 No, I knew him quite well, actually, and I lived next door to him.
00:12:59.740 And it's a whole, it's actually a part of my story.
00:13:04.600 But, you know, it depends how far you want to go down the rabbit hole.
00:13:08.340 But I think I knew him as a child, and I think the reason I knew him was that he was part of this program at the Allen Memorial, McGill University, too.
00:13:18.880 Well, he was much older.
00:13:20.960 he was a young man and I was a little girl but I think that let's go back to when you when your
00:13:28.980 story began you said that your dad sold you into this situation which I find very alarming
00:13:35.800 you were four years old what do you remember from this four going on five it might and I think on
00:13:45.700 My fifth birthday, that's when the check was written.
00:13:49.780 And there is a record of the check being written on my fifth birthday, 1956, April, 1956.
00:13:58.440 And what was the agreement?
00:14:02.380 Did you ask me?
00:14:03.740 Well, I mean, yeah.
00:14:05.580 Like, tell us the agreement.
00:14:07.020 Sure.
00:14:08.360 Who knows?
00:14:09.320 I mean, I was five years old.
00:14:11.060 I didn't witness this.
00:14:12.260 How do I know?
00:14:13.480 No, but you researched it later on, obviously.
00:14:15.420 I mean, I'm sure you found out.
00:14:16.640 Do you know the agreement?
00:14:19.280 I assume, well, you know, there's photos of me.
00:14:22.280 I'm all dressed up as if, you know, it seems to have been taken at military bases.
00:14:28.300 These photos of me as a little girl.
00:14:31.000 I'm kind of dressed up in an almost military way, and I'm smiling for the camera.
00:14:36.060 Basically, I'm being put in.
00:14:37.340 I've been designated, I've been identified as a gifted child.
00:14:41.920 It's a gifted program, my parents are told.
00:14:44.600 And I will be put through interesting, you know, challenging situations and, you know, if I overcome, you know, I will be chosen perhaps for a career at the United Nations or some glamorous occupation in media or, you know, government something.
00:15:11.380 You know, I have an IQ of whatever it is, you know, and they have decided that I'm worth training.
00:15:21.140 So that, I think, was what my parents were told.
00:15:24.060 My mother once, we used to have, I heard my mother say to someone, you know, when I was a child that the scientists were very interested in both her children.
00:15:35.560 I had a twin brother, and we were both in the program initially.
00:15:39.020 so um it was presented to parents as a is a very uh you know uh it was flattering it was a it was
00:15:47.880 a positive yeah it was it for advanced kids it was like you're you're gonna jump eight grades
00:15:54.520 you've got a genius for a daughter and we can help her to a great life and a great career and
00:16:01.300 that's how were they selling it through schools or was it an ad in the paper do you know or were
00:16:06.560 and knock it on doors?
00:16:08.720 I think in my case, my family's case,
00:16:12.120 it was through my father's Air Force connection.
00:16:14.280 And the Air Force is very important in this story,
00:16:16.940 Royal Canadian Air Force,
00:16:18.420 because several of the MKUltra doctors
00:16:22.500 had Air Force backgrounds.
00:16:24.280 They were officers.
00:16:25.740 That includes Cameron and Penfield and Donald Hebb
00:16:30.160 and a number of, Dr. Roper, Dr. Peter Roper.
00:16:34.180 it was a huge air force uh input into the program the air force also had yeah connections anyway
00:16:43.440 connections with secret societies too and then the aerospace program all of these things fit
00:16:49.680 into the into you know the kind of the background of what what they were doing what they were trying
00:16:55.220 to develop a well what they were thinking in terms of developing super soldiers too back then
00:17:00.380 and psychic spies and mercenaries, you know.
00:17:04.940 And that was, they were training kids
00:17:08.800 in those kinds of things at McGill.
00:17:12.040 Super, you know, you've heard about super soldiers.
00:17:14.780 Underground base, you know.
00:17:16.640 I've heard it from the Marvel movies.
00:17:18.520 I didn't know it was actually real.
00:17:20.440 I mean, that's how they made Captain America,
00:17:22.600 according to Marvel and Disney.
00:17:25.320 Oh yeah, it's entertainment, yeah.
00:17:27.700 No, it's gone into everything.
00:17:29.360 it's been in comic books it's been on television for decades you know I mean the man from uncle
00:17:34.180 which I watched in high school when I was 14 I was addicted to that show if you if you look at it
00:17:39.740 you look at the scripts you know obviously the some of the people writing for that show were
00:17:44.520 very well informed about the MKUltra program because they brought in elements of it often
00:17:48.980 you know reanimated Nazi doctors with poison gas you know and yeah super soldiers and that kind of
00:17:58.480 thing predictive programming that they predictive programming that they deny is a thing has been a
00:18:06.140 thing operation mockingbird and whatnot for over 50 or 60 years now but let's go back to the day
00:18:13.140 that you first went into this this program did they just take you to the university and drop
00:18:18.280 you off and and say we're not going to be seeing you for a while sweetheart well i don't uh you
00:18:25.380 know i mean i know i know that they they screwed with your brain for years and and yeah i know that
00:18:33.020 the memories are there and i know that some memories aren't so if you don't remember just
00:18:36.940 say hey look you know that's something i don't remember but you know and and i'm sure you've
00:18:40.840 told this story go ahead i couldn't tell you on a day-by-day basis how it how it unfolded i think
00:18:47.080 on that day i remember that birthday and i think we went for a drive in the country you know and
00:18:52.100 And it was sunny, and I remember I got presents, and we celebrated, you know.
00:18:56.240 I mean, you know, I got booked the Bobsy Twins, and they're five years old today.
00:19:01.500 That's what I do actually remember that day.
00:19:03.580 But it also happens to be the day that the check was written for $3,000 to my father.
00:19:11.420 And $3,000 in 1956 is about $35,000 now.
00:19:15.580 It was a chunk of money.
00:19:16.720 and so you know that so there was the financial incentive for my parents who needed who well my
00:19:23.180 father was a teacher but you know we weren't rich for sure and uh that year he bought a new car
00:19:28.620 and we moved into a house in the suburbs from our apartment in a you know military housing
00:19:35.580 kind of project in montreal and we moved to the suburbs and yeah i was i was a breadwinner
00:19:41.300 but how did it how did it work itself out you know i pieced it together from different different
00:19:47.320 sources and documents and so on and i i i believe i um there was a party in the in august of 1956
00:19:54.520 i believe it was um and we went there in a limousine and um there were other children
00:20:02.460 lots of children chosen children at this party but parents were not allowed to attend
00:20:07.300 So it was my brother and me in a room with, I don't know, 50, 60, I don't know how many other kids, and experiments.
00:20:19.100 The games were based around experiments.
00:20:21.280 Some of them were ESP games.
00:20:24.300 Some of them were physically demanding, sporty, even violent games.
00:20:31.880 And different things happened during that afternoon open house party for children.
00:20:37.300 what is an esp game like what are they trying to ask you what's behind what's on the other side of
00:20:43.780 this paper kind of thing yeah cards you know they'd show you the back of the card and you
00:20:48.160 had to guess what the symbol was on the front and for a kid that's fun right i mean you're just
00:20:54.300 you're at a party it's oh look games we're having fun you know there's pin the tail on the donkey
00:20:58.580 over here and electro shock over here and yeah there was a game i mean listen i'm my memories i
00:21:06.640 i have memories of certain things that are my memories and some things uh you know so but one
00:21:13.960 game that i understand happened that my brother was involved in at five years old was called the
00:21:20.340 jack in the box and they put a child in a box and they and that chosen child was given an actual
00:21:28.360 sword an actual sharp sword and folded into the box you know the lid was paper and another child
00:21:37.080 who was chosen but a disposable child was told to attack the box while the boy inside the box
00:21:43.920 was told to defend himself and you can imagine what happened so it sounds to me like these
00:21:52.320 children much like the uh anika story that we heard on patrick that david david show a few nights
00:21:59.760 ago it sounds like the kids were classified by intelligence or maybe by strength because you
00:22:08.700 just said disposable ethnicity it was yeah and there were disposable kids and the orphans you
00:22:18.200 see if you had parents well that meant that they had to account for you because you had to go home 0.59
00:22:22.140 if you didn't
00:22:24.360 go home
00:22:25.860 wait a minute
00:22:28.100 hold on
00:22:28.840 we had a bad
00:22:32.000 in fact also that money
00:22:33.740 we've got a bad connection
00:22:36.900 through the wifi right now
00:22:38.320 I want to make sure
00:22:41.060 that we can all hear everything that you say
00:22:43.100 so you were
00:22:45.020 going home every day
00:22:46.340 it wasn't that they just packed you away
00:22:48.900 for good, you were still going home
00:22:51.020 every day
00:22:52.140 Well, they would have to have a good reason for my not going home if I had parents and lived in a house in the suburbs, right, in a normal family situation.
00:23:03.680 so um there are different scenarios but one of the i was taken out of uh school quite often
00:23:12.200 under various pretexts and i i can't say i remember everything that happened but it appears
00:23:19.760 from people i have people who knew me for example have told me well i used to be down in the they
00:23:25.780 saw me down in the bronfman mansion well they saw me downtown there's i was at the hospital
00:23:31.420 so different stories would be told in one case I my mother enrolled me in second grade I was in
00:23:39.080 a ballet class but I never took any ballet I at the end of the at the end of the year when we had
00:23:46.220 the we had the recital they put me in a costume I had no idea of the routine at all and I and I'm
00:23:51.840 just made a total fool of myself because you know in this ballet recital they still put me in it
00:23:58.500 because my mother was in the audience,
00:24:00.240 but I go the wrong direction.
00:24:02.140 I didn't know what the routine was.
00:24:04.440 It appears the ballet class that I took after school
00:24:07.760 in second grade was a pretext for taking me downtown
00:24:11.700 to participate in other things that were going on,
00:24:17.140 either at the hospital or in people's homes.
00:24:20.240 So it was child trafficking.
00:24:23.300 So your own story is based upon
00:24:28.320 largely anyway not all of it what other people have told you about your own life
00:24:34.580 it's a mixed bag i have very um clear memories um of certain things like i remember being in
00:24:45.080 an underground facility at the age of four and children were being tortured
00:24:51.320 and i remember and it's very clear and i've known about it all my life i even wrote about it
00:24:58.580 in the 80s and published a story about this so i didn't pull this out of nowhere out of you know
00:25:04.420 from reading uh conspiracy theories but but yeah i i tried to tell my mother well uh there there's
00:25:11.540 this place in the and they're dressed there are witches and they're torturing the children and
00:25:16.260 And the children were on an assembly line built, strapped down, and they were these, well, you know, years later, I read exactly the same scenario coming from a survivor from California, from the China Lake Underground Military Facility.
00:25:35.940 And she describes the assembly line and what was being done to the children, which I witnessed.
00:25:41.480 and you know it's it's a very that's a clear memory that i had from the age of four
00:25:46.620 but my mother of course didn't believe me she said that was a bad dream and i remember clearly
00:25:56.280 the conversation right that she doesn't believe me but you know and um i remember you know you
00:26:03.920 you remember certain things but you have to also keep in mind that this whole experiment was based
00:26:09.200 on wiping memory erasing memory that's what the electroshock was that's what the lsd was
00:26:18.080 about right and hypnosis was being used and sensory isolation so i don't know if i'm being
00:26:25.860 clear about what was going on down at mcgill was there was a group of children um in a laboratory
00:26:33.700 they lived there they were disposables because they were orphans they were from broken homes
00:26:39.060 The parents were sick, couldn't take care of them.
00:26:41.820 Doctors offered, you know, to take their children, and they were there.
00:26:47.980 They lived there, and they died there also when the project folded in 1963.
00:26:55.300 So, you know, when you said...
00:26:57.760 No, go ahead. Go ahead.
00:26:59.320 Well, you said my book is fiction.
00:27:02.700 It's definitely not fiction.
00:27:05.140 I know that my family lives through a nightmare in the 1950s and 60s.
00:27:10.440 And I know that, but you have to factor in that amnesia is a huge part of this.
00:27:19.780 Were they, yeah, we just put your website up there.
00:27:23.800 My Cold War is the name of that book.
00:27:27.600 You've got many others on your website and diamond.ca if you guys want to go check it out.
00:27:32.080 um was it also designed to were they trying to input memories into kids that never happened
00:27:43.840 i it's possible that that they were experimenting on on implanting memories too but um i think
00:27:55.040 you know the manchurian candidate yes i mean the manchurian candidate candidate programming
00:28:00.680 is about erasing a personality
00:28:03.840 turning you into a blank slate
00:28:08.060 and then reprogramming you
00:28:11.800 to be someone else
00:28:13.840 someone better they used to say
00:28:15.660 they claimed that this was a way to cure schizophrenia
00:28:19.280 or different kinds of mental illness
00:28:21.680 depression and so on
00:28:22.660 Cameron's de-patterning process
00:28:28.100 was about erasing uh the personality and you know then you and then you rebuild it you build it back
00:28:36.100 up from nothing so he would reduce people to infancy um and they did that to my father my
00:28:42.340 father was a cameron patient in 1962 for six weeks um around the it's you know around that time i
00:28:52.380 was I was in sixth grade and I thought I was living just a normal you know life I mean I was
00:28:59.360 going to school and I would you know I was just a little school girl with friends and doing sports
00:29:04.900 and different things were happening but my father was taken away from us suddenly he and came back
00:29:12.620 six weeks later and didn't recognize us didn't know really who we were and that was because
00:29:19.520 he'd been de-patterned he'd been you know he'd gone through some drugging and and electroshock
00:29:24.100 process at the hospital the allen memorial under he is listed as a cameron patient i have a you
00:29:30.120 know card that shows he was a cameron patient his other doctor was a different was a different
00:29:36.500 psychiatrist called dr roper who i think took charge of him after and um and my my he wasn't
00:29:44.100 able to work anymore he was taken from school where he was a music teacher and taken down
00:29:49.500 downtown from school under i don't know why exactly but suddenly we were told he was in the
00:29:54.200 hospital and six weeks later he arrived home and couldn't teach anymore of course because he
00:30:00.160 couldn't remember his own children's names i want i wonder why they would send him back to you
00:30:05.440 if they had completely and totally wiped his brain they must have known that he wouldn't
00:30:09.880 recognize you or maybe that was part of the experiment to see if he would they were doing
00:30:15.400 it at that point 1962 1963 it was over that winter they were they were um they had ramped
00:30:23.220 it up to the point where they you know there were many people that that that went home to their
00:30:29.020 families and didn't know their families there there were women who had you know had uh postpartum
00:30:35.600 depression and and uh completely wiped so they you know they're reduced to infancy they don't
00:30:40.620 they don't know their own names they don't know how to go to the bathroom or they don't you know
00:30:44.420 It was obviously completely destructive of the person, the people that they were trying, they said they were trying to help, they were trying to cure of different, you know, neuroses.
00:31:02.080 And they would send them home and, you know, the thing is my father within a fairly short time started, you know, he began to come back.
00:31:10.260 he did you know then start to remember things but i know that he was often
00:31:13.900 concealing his lack of memory you know he was hiding the fact that he didn't remember things
00:31:19.820 anymore do you remember anything that they did to you do you have any memories of that or or is
00:31:28.400 your childhood from the age of four like when did you finally get out of that nightmare
00:31:33.720 and did i finally get out of it um not to say that you because i know that this is probably
00:31:41.220 a lifelong healing process and because of what they did to you but when you stopped actually
00:31:48.560 taking part in the programming i suppose is what what i'm asking it's hard you know it's hard to
00:31:55.020 give a short answer to questions no no it doesn't have to be short i mean it doesn't have to be you
00:32:00.160 can go on and on here go ahead yeah I mean you know I can I could let me think how to say it
00:32:07.980 it seems that um once my father okay my father was put in the hospital in December of 1962 he
00:32:18.260 came home in January of 1963 um and we were told you know he had been treated my mother said he's
00:32:25.140 going to get slowly better you know he's going to seem different for a while but the doctors are
00:32:29.980 whole you know are optimistic that he he had been a really difficult kind of guy to live with in
00:32:35.500 many ways he was often angry he had a lot of nervous energy that you know and and so okay
00:32:41.580 he he was came home and he was very calm and you know and then he sort of slowly recovered his
00:32:49.100 memory a lot over that okay over that winter um i don't know how to tell this story exactly
00:32:56.940 It seems that I was unaware of this, the sinister side of this whole thing.
00:33:04.520 But he told me one day we were playing chess or something, you know, because we were interacting.
00:33:10.800 He said, they're not doing anything good down at that hospital.
00:33:15.080 He just said that to me.
00:33:16.500 And I remember saying, and I was 12, you know, dad, they're just trying to help you.
00:33:21.840 And he just snorted, you know, he was so he was aware.
00:33:26.940 of what he was seeing things that were going on because he was going down
00:33:30.360 daily on a daily basis to the day hospital that they ran as a public
00:33:35.420 outreach, you know, in the center of Montreal, it was an,
00:33:38.300 it was a day hospital and people came and went patients came and went.
00:33:42.780 And so he was observing things that were going on down there and which
00:33:45.940 includes people, you know, what pacing up and down going, who am I?
00:33:49.800 Who am I? I don't know why I'm here. Where am I? You know,
00:33:52.120 and that kind of thing. So he was getting a good, you know,
00:33:54.900 a good overview of what that place was about.
00:33:57.960 It was nightmarish, actually.
00:34:01.180 Where were they getting these people?
00:34:04.740 Were they just homeless people from the street?
00:34:07.640 No, they had a very, the Allen Memorial had a very good reputation,
00:34:13.840 and they had frequent free publicity in the local English newspapers,
00:34:21.440 the Montreal Gazette and the Montreal Star,
00:34:23.900 both of whose owners were investing in the program there that some of the big donors
00:34:30.340 to this mind control program so the newspapers were in on it mcgill university was in on it
00:34:37.640 mcgill was getting massive amounts of funding for these kinds of you know i mean for programs that
00:34:43.820 were related and cameron was a great public relations man so people had a very high opinion
00:34:49.180 You know, the NFB, the National Film Board, made a film about how they could help people through their new cutting-edge psychiatry, and they would go home to their families and they would be able to live normally, people who had had difficulties in relationships before, and they made propaganda film, one in particular.
00:35:09.180 But it was just a kind of common knowledge in a way.
00:35:13.600 It was the official story was that it was a great place that was helping people, you know, cope and get ready for the future, you know, the new society that was coming.
00:35:23.920 And nobody had a clue what they were really doing.
00:35:27.420 There was because it looked so normal, except for the people walking around not knowing who they were, where they were.
00:35:33.440 Well, except by, yeah, and by 1960, I was told by Warren Allman, he was the attorney general of Canada, I think.
00:35:42.820 But before, in those days, he knew of many people who had been totally ruined by the treatment.
00:35:49.340 And there was a group of people that formed and they demonstrated outside the hospital.
00:35:54.680 You know, you're killing our, you know, you're hurting our loved ones.
00:36:00.240 You're not helping them.
00:36:01.040 but it you know it didn't go anywhere i mean it was just didn't get newspaper coverage that's for
00:36:06.940 sure so this is this is the program that essentially existed right under people's noses
00:36:12.820 people didn't know what was really going on in there because it looked so normal
00:36:17.540 it's like bringing millions yeah it was bringing in millions it was allowing mcgill to expand and
00:36:23.720 become you know a leading hospital it was it had always been a center for experimental psychology
00:36:29.780 you know and it offered i think mcgill's big drawing card was it was it had human beings
00:36:35.940 that it was offering as guinea pigs and you know and and and some of that was secret but some of
00:36:41.380 those guinea pigs were children and some of the guinea pigs were patients who came who went in
00:36:47.180 there and sometimes they go in you know because they had a sore arm and they would end up being
00:36:51.760 diagnosed with schizophrenia or you know and and then subjected to two weeks of of this uh mind
00:36:59.680 control so you go in with appendicitis and you come out and you're a completely different person
00:37:05.920 you can be totally psychotic or completely just nobody there you know gone blank and it's like i
00:37:13.020 don't know what happened to the guy i mean he was fine when he went in and then he comes out and he's
00:37:17.700 crazy he's a different person yeah and you know there's so well with the lead plaintiff in the
00:37:23.520 case that at the moment is julie gold and her father was a you know loving father but he had
00:37:30.420 some i forget what it was you know neurological issue with his face or something some pain some
00:37:35.280 chronic pain and they put him in the island and he came back he he was a monster after that that
00:37:40.700 you know he he terrorized his family you're talking about the uh the mk ultra class action
00:37:47.360 that that you were part of that had been launched against the u.s government last uh tober this is
00:37:55.060 a story from the cbc they said that the quebec high court said that the u.s has immunity in canada
00:38:00.740 and that they can't be touched so yeah the cia has immunity everywhere
00:38:07.480 you know they're above the law and so our government agrees is is the case progressing
00:38:16.560 at all i have you heard any anything new or is there going to be an appeal at this point we are
00:38:22.880 appealing but we have to have it we have to have the appeal uh approved you know we've i think the
00:38:27.640 application i don't know if it's been submitted but it's now in a waiting phase and it really
00:38:32.740 feels as though the case is stalled i mean to be perfectly honest i've a lot of great work has
00:38:39.960 gone into it and there's a thousand uh people who've signed on to it who say that their family
00:38:46.160 members were were victims i am one of the few i believe you know i say that was actually in there
00:38:53.080 that's still alive because most of the patients cameron's patients have passed on but since i was
00:38:59.820 four years old yeah it seems to me this program was never meant for people to know about it
00:39:07.600 right like it was it was always secret and somehow it got out to the public
00:39:13.800 how did that do you know how it leaked out to become public knowledge
00:39:18.660 long series well in particular in 1977 um an american uh writer journalist john marx wrote
00:39:30.700 a book called the search for the manchurian candidate right and it got um international
00:39:37.360 attention it was you know in all the media and it mentioned it it it um it talked about many
00:39:44.160 projects because mk ultra i think was 149 different sub projects across north america i
00:39:49.840 actually think there were more but those weren't those are the ones they you know he found files
00:39:54.680 that identified the projects and he found the financial records and so from those he was able
00:40:00.020 to make you know to determine you know the extent of and how it worked and who and to some extent
00:40:07.080 who was involved even though the the files are heavily redacted right but there's guesswork
00:40:13.680 involved in it too but anyway he came out with his book the search for the manchurian candidate
00:40:18.420 it talked about dr cameron in montreal dr cameron in montreal was one of the i it's it's always
00:40:24.880 mentioned whenever anyone talks about mk ultra it's like the number one the worst case of um
00:40:31.280 the largest human experiment ever conducted on an unwitting population you know in history in the
00:40:39.160 history world of north america you know it's it's a huge thing it's always at the top of the
00:40:45.520 you know list when they talk about mk ultra and yet for in montreal it's it's still pretty much
00:40:53.200 kept secret i mean people know about it finally now but for years uh i would say they managed to
00:41:01.660 you know they managed to uh put a whole city under you know under an estate of amnesia
00:41:08.280 hypnotize the whole population into thinking nothing bad ever happened we can we can talk
00:41:14.200 about germany during world war ii right people saying i didn't know that there were concentration
00:41:19.560 camps i didn't know they were burning people in ovens and yet they could see the ashes in the sky
00:41:26.840 they could smell it they knew but they never said anything right and that's exactly yeah
00:41:33.520 oh it's the same thing that happened when i was writing when i was writing my cold war which was
00:41:41.180 back in around that 2003 i was back in montreal and i had already done massive amount of research
00:41:46.160 while living out in vancouver and then came back to montreal i swear that i could not go anywhere
00:41:51.460 couldn't go to dinner couldn't go to any any any gathering or or even sit on the bus
00:41:56.700 and with the person next to me starting to tell me about their their story of the family
00:42:02.560 uh that were cameron victims it just seemed that every everywhere i went someone someone had a
00:42:09.040 family member somebody you know knew someone someone had been in in some way harmed by this
00:42:13.700 program they were everywhere and yet officially they they managed to limit the um it okay after
00:42:21.380 1977 uh the canadian you know press was forced to admit that that this was a real thing that
00:42:29.340 had happened in montreal so they did start to release stories on it and reports and they'd
00:42:34.360 interview people who were who had survived it and so on and former patients and but what they
00:42:39.660 managed to do was to was to um it was a limited hangout in that they talked about some of the
00:42:46.840 worst cases people were reduced to vegetables they never recovered or they committed suicide
00:42:51.880 or they were they told a handful of these kinds of stories that were so bad that i didn't at that
00:42:58.780 time, you know, I was 26. My father had died already a couple of years earlier. So I couldn't
00:43:04.500 ask him. My mother refused to talk to me about it. And I could not really relate my father's
00:43:11.560 situation, his case, to these horror stories, because in fact, he got off fairly easily.
00:43:18.780 You know, even though he lost his job, and he lost a lot of his memory, and he wasn't the same
00:43:23.460 after the the horror stories were so graphic and so and so extreme that you it left out the
00:43:31.800 hundreds and hundreds of people who you know had other sorts of situations sometimes just as bad
00:43:38.980 but you know different and they kind they kind of controlled the narrative in that kind of way by
00:43:43.860 by limiting you know and um and then they only told the story so now when i wrote my book in 2000
00:43:51.360 I was told in 2003, 2004, I started going to publishers, and they would, most of the time, people would say to me when I told them what the book was about, they would say, well, that's already been talked, that's already been written about.
00:44:03.200 Everybody knows that that happened, but they thought that it only happened to a few people.
00:44:07.940 And there's been compensation, but not really, no.
00:44:11.460 There's, you know, there's a thousand people now signed on to the lawsuit, and this is, you know, only using the internet, not much media attention at all.
00:44:20.520 and that's just montreal quebec right that's just montreal although some of them are across
00:44:26.860 yeah they're across canada you were saying earlier that their objective was to cure mental illness
00:44:33.740 a different array of mental illnesses through these treatments that they were trying to develop
00:44:40.340 on unwitting um people yeah in the research that you've done did they have any success
00:44:51.940 with that or was there a deeper objective and when you talk about a manchurian candidate i guess
00:44:58.920 that's what i'm getting to here because you did mention to me earlier today something about the
00:45:03.760 trudeau family and the bronfman family and we can talk about that later on as well because that's
00:45:08.280 Very interesting.
00:45:12.300 So do I think, no, I don't think it did anything.
00:45:15.140 I think my father was absolutely right in 1963 when he said to me,
00:45:19.420 they're not doing anything good down at that hospital.
00:45:23.260 You know, he was.
00:45:24.820 So, but it's not, in my research, I've never heard of any success stories.
00:45:33.500 I mean, maybe they're out there.
00:45:34.700 Maybe there are people walking around who feel they're very grateful to Dr.
00:45:37.760 cameron but i've never heard of any of them you know right i don't and and and people now talk
00:45:45.220 about it you know even back then right after he left which was in 64 people began saying well i
00:45:51.980 never believed in his treatments and you know it was ridiculous what he was doing when he had
00:45:55.680 football helmets on people and and tapes playing in their head um uh repeating messages and he was
00:46:03.900 dosing them with lsd you know massive doses of lsd and then like you said the electroshock
00:46:09.280 which was at a volume you know it was i don't know several times higher than the maximum you
00:46:15.220 know and they would do it a few times a day instead of once or twice a week i mean white
00:46:21.100 people verbal and sexual abuse was also one of the big tools they used to do
00:46:26.560 to me that's like and constant yelling and screaming at somebody for every minute of every
00:46:34.600 day until they broke i don't know about who who was doing that uh it was more that the recordings
00:46:42.620 you know they had a they had a technical guy named rubenstein and he he developed this technology
00:46:49.780 where the the tape the message might be yelling at you but it would play you know it would play
00:46:53.960 in a loop and you would hear it thousands of times like that movie with well yeah no exactly
00:47:01.300 the same i don't know about taping the eyes and you know putting people in the chair but yes they
00:47:05.140 were doing that too i've they were doing that too i'm not i don't know if they were doing that to
00:47:09.600 their patients so they're doing that to those special i don't know delinquents that they also
00:47:15.480 you know because they put out a call to the community if you have a difficult child we can
00:47:19.780 fix him and they were and they and the the McGill University and dr. Cameron
00:47:26.440 worked through a network of high schools in Montreal but the only the English
00:47:31.540 Protestant high schools the French Catholic we had two school boards or
00:47:35.260 more than more than two but anyway we had a Protestant and a Catholic and the 0.95
00:47:38.920 Catholic side were anti-eugenics so they that's one reason why they were
00:47:43.660 suspicious of this kinds of experiments these were eugenics experiments you know
00:47:48.280 they recognize but the protestant school board cooperated which would mean that the guidance 0.81
00:47:52.120 counselor and the teachers and the principals would be looking for kids who would be eligible
00:47:57.640 for the program and they might be the highly intelligent kids that they were you know
00:48:02.060 referring or they might be the kids that were troublemakers and anyone they wanted how they
00:48:07.460 felt like what what did they wanted to do what what they wanted to accomplish or what kind of
00:48:12.020 personality they'd try to crack you know you know yeah you know they yeah i think they all just
00:48:18.540 thought it was a great thing to get behind you know that cameron was a genius and you know the
00:48:25.540 top of his profession he was the head of the american canadian psychiatric associations and
00:48:31.620 the world psychiatric association he was he was the top guy in his field so he was never arrested
00:48:37.400 also never arrested this guy uh should have died yeah he had a heart attack there was something i
00:48:44.740 meant no you asked me you asked me about how did my year go you know how did i get out i just i
00:48:50.900 realized there is a story i i ought to tell you yes but i told you about my father you know being
00:48:56.600 back home and i and as the daughter and you know trying to relate to him and so on and and but there
00:49:01.940 was more going on than that my father came home from the hospital but we didn't know he was going
00:49:08.180 to the hospital we thought he was teaching but never mind that my parents didn't want us to
00:49:13.820 think that our dad was a mental patient so they my father would get up in the morning put on his
00:49:17.520 suit and take his briefcase and go out the door and we thought he was going back to the high school
00:49:20.940 to teach to finish the year you know finish the semester but actually he was going downtown to be
00:49:26.180 patient okay he came home uh he'd come home in the evening so he came home one evening and he
00:49:32.640 had these two pillows foam rubber pillows and he he said these are um these are for you kids and
00:49:39.400 uh throw away your other pillows we had these old down feather pillows they were nice but these now
00:49:44.500 we had these new foam rubber pillows and we also had a medicine that we took like a tonic that we
00:49:50.600 took at night and and okay so what started happening starting in the in january of 1963
00:49:57.060 i was 12 or almost 12 um to my brother too but we didn't talk about it for years was that we'd
00:50:04.160 we'd go to sleep we'd take our tonic at bedtime we'd go to bed and and try to go to sleep but
00:50:09.640 but the clock the bedside clock tick tick tick would start to speed up or slow down and start to
00:50:16.720 and I start to hallucinate in bed and I'd hear I'd hear a voice and there was a voice in my head it
00:50:27.980 was a male voice it kept saying the same thing over and over again hundreds of times said you're
00:50:33.060 no good you will fail you will never succeed at anything and that I heard that voice I didn't
00:50:41.000 know where it was coming from now i believe it came from rubenstein's speakers that he had
00:50:49.100 installed he would install them in pillows i read about that recently in a book but it's
00:50:54.200 first time i actually saw it written down but and they were and they were broadcasting
00:50:58.560 the messages electronically i don't think it was on a tape in the pillow but i think it was
00:51:04.420 maybe an electronic signal that was coming through like a radio signal
00:51:07.480 and it was dr. Cameron's voice because years later I read about a patient and
00:51:13.700 they heard that exact same message repeated hundreds of times when they
00:51:17.620 were down at the hospital you're no good you will fail it was dr. Cameron you
00:51:21.280 will never succeed at anything so that I didn't tell either of my parents that
00:51:25.840 this was happening to me I'd be I lie awake till 2 a.m. you know hearing and
00:51:29.140 then finally get to sleep and then get up and go to school and try to live
00:51:33.040 normally live my normal life um but my brother told me many years later he said oh that happened
00:51:39.660 to me too and i but i just couldn't make out what the voice was saying he said and um you know it's
00:51:47.600 actually documented in a recent book about the pillows and the speakers in the pillows
00:51:52.160 it was one of the things yeah and let me ask you let me ask you a question when you
00:51:59.120 because there's so many things that you went through and you've researched so heavily these
00:52:06.900 past decades there's so many things that are relevant to that today like you know when you
00:52:13.660 look at justin trudeau for example what do you see i i see a damaged uh child but i can't see
00:52:25.820 him any other way you know he's a terrible actor he can't think straight um he to me he's
00:52:34.140 dissociative he's he's disconnected from reality and i is yeah is that just from his upbringing
00:52:43.580 do you think or is that from something else all right i you know i'm actually this is just a wild
00:52:51.140 theory i'm not saying that this is like again to the to the ai algorithms who are controlling on
00:52:56.860 youtube and facebook we're just throwing it out there right don't shut the town yeah well i just
00:53:03.820 i wrote a piece on justin trudeau when he's several years ago and you know i noticed it's
00:53:10.040 it repeat it's um it repeats itself on the internet and people pick up on it and there is some
00:53:15.420 information in there about him because i i'm essentially an intuitive researcher you know
00:53:20.360 i'll be drawn to something by an intuition and then i'll and then i find uh so i don't know if
00:53:25.920 that's confirmation bias or if that's you know i just tend to be drawn to questions i i became
00:53:32.180 interested in justin trudeau as a mind control victim he seemed that way i'm going with this
00:53:38.160 yeah i'm absolutely going there with this i it i've said this for a very long time now that i
00:53:43.160 think he's a manchurian candidate but obviously their formula is still missing a few steps because
00:53:49.960 he is definitely not a success.
00:53:53.280 No, he's a very
00:53:54.060 sad failure.
00:53:56.240 Yeah. But, I mean,
00:53:57.920 the Trudeau family are
00:53:59.420 just, they're
00:54:01.980 a circus, you know, they're
00:54:03.300 monstrous, and I say that, I mean,
00:54:06.220 you know, Pierre Trudeau as well,
00:54:08.260 I mean, they are a disaster.
00:54:10.860 And Canada has
00:54:11.780 had them, you know,
00:54:13.340 they somehow
00:54:15.780 define Canada in many ways, and it's
00:54:17.920 because people don't see through them.
00:54:19.960 but um no i think i think justin you know was traumatized as a child partly by his parents
00:54:26.480 marriage and the breakup and what was going on which was crazy stuff when he was a little kid
00:54:32.660 and margaret running off with the rolling stones and all the publicity around that but also
00:54:38.120 just you know i think care was violent and there's many people that say that
00:54:42.160 he was violently abusive and then there's more that i don't know if we can get into that that's
00:54:46.860 coming out now with these testimonies you know and annika lucas and so on so which i've known
00:54:52.920 about for many years but i think even pierre was part of the network and it involved the jesuits
00:54:58.760 and it involved uh you know a whole network the jesuits have their own mind control system that's
00:55:04.760 gone back centuries so um he's a product of that and then he raised his three sons you know and
00:55:13.060 in this crazy marriage you know so yeah i think and i think oh but i can there is another story
00:55:21.660 and again i hesitate now whether i should bring it up but it involves them it involves them well
00:55:27.600 someone that i met a couple of years ago who was a child in in quebec who was um gifted and in his
00:55:35.760 he was born in 1975 so he was in Montauk chosen to go down to Montauk because he's very psychically
00:55:43.400 gifted and anyway he has a whole story I can tell you but his name is Chris Laterreur
00:55:48.960 he grew up in a small town outside Montreal and he was at school they were programming I mean
00:55:59.180 this is a whole story I could take you know it could take half an hour really to go into but
00:56:04.280 essentially the military and the police there were rogue police and military coming to the school
00:56:10.800 recruiting children at six years old to become mercenaries and super soldiers and work for NASA
00:56:18.560 some of these people were American some were Canadian and you know and they and they chose
00:56:24.220 and they tested the kids and he was one of the kids that got into the program and then they
00:56:28.940 And he passed all the tests with flying colors, and he proved that he had, you know, remote viewing ability.
00:56:38.040 He could view things at a distance.
00:56:39.620 He could leave his body and travel and get information and come back.
00:56:43.280 Astral travel.
00:56:44.600 He demonstrated those things to them, and they said, you're the boy.
00:56:47.300 And they took him down to Montauk, which is the place on Long Island that the series Stranger Things is kind of based on.
00:56:58.340 Yeah.
00:56:58.940 and a horrible place where thousands of kids died, I mean it's it's horrific the story of Montauk
00:57:06.380 but he was putting the program there and then he managed to survive what they did to him and came
00:57:11.340 back home but when he was he continued to be programmed and accessed in his own school and
00:57:18.940 community and one of the things that they put that they sent him to they sent him to see
00:57:24.380 a programmer who that he knew as dr green and he and other boys went to this man's house or his
00:57:32.240 office and um he believes i mean he has he has just his memory to go by but he said he was
00:57:39.520 flipping through a book on on nazi you know nazi germany and he saw a photo of reinhard hedrick
00:57:45.280 hedrick hitler's second in command and he said that's dr green that's the man and he had you
00:57:52.320 know there's the whole physical you know description of him he's a huge tall man with
00:57:56.580 huge hands and he had a certain type of cane and you know certain coloring and all that
00:58:01.260 same fate horse like fate horsey face you know and he's kind of you would never forget him
00:58:06.500 anyway he knew him at in his later years when he was 80 and he was hypnotizing children for the
00:58:13.920 program working with the space program and for the CIA and the you know intelligence services
00:58:20.740 and the Montauk program
00:58:23.600 he was involved in all of that
00:58:25.700 so
00:58:27.220 okay I don't know if I should
00:58:29.460 finish the story
00:58:31.460 Chris says that one time
00:58:33.740 he was leaving the place and he saw
00:58:35.740 Pierre Trudeau get out of a limousine
00:58:37.800 with his son Justin who was 14
00:58:39.780 years old at the time so this was 1985
00:58:41.780 and go up the
00:58:43.720 steps and into Dr.
00:58:45.720 Green's office
00:58:47.540 so
00:58:49.700 from that
00:58:50.740 I mean, there's a network and if you say it, I mean, the way I say it, people just say, oh, well, she's crazy and she makes stuff up.
00:59:03.820 I'm prone to imagining things, but I think the more we go deeper and deeper with time and the more attention we pay and the more research we do and the more stories come out, the more connections can be made.
00:59:17.320 the more to me it becomes obvious that this has been you know this is the story of our lives
00:59:24.480 really after world war ii you know operation papercliff and so on you've you've read about
00:59:30.120 that yeah i mean that's what i'm getting here when you when you talked about this
00:59:34.740 hitler's second in command who went by the name of green over here he was probably part of that
00:59:41.260 um and who knows if hitler even really died right i mean there's all kinds of speculation that
00:59:47.320 He never did.
00:59:50.360 We all have our, what is it?
00:59:52.040 We have our limit for how many of these, you know, well,
00:59:55.480 they are conspiracy theories, you know, and these,
00:59:57.500 how many of these speculative stories we can, you know, take in.
01:00:02.040 I mean, I'm interested in all of it.
01:00:04.180 I think that the powers that be want us in that situation.
01:00:09.760 They want us, they want us to not know what to believe.
01:00:15.160 And so they leak some stuff and then other stuff they say, that's crazy.
01:00:19.740 And now look, I mean, they're having hearings in the United States House of Representatives regarding unidentified flying objects where for years they said, no, no, no, that's just a weather balloon.
01:00:34.360 And now all of a sudden they're talking about it like it's real and there's people testifying.
01:00:38.620 Yeah, I've seen that stuff.
01:00:40.020 So why now are they bringing this out?
01:00:42.740 there's got to be some kind of guiding hand yeah there's an agenda you could say you could say
01:00:51.100 there's a critical mass and they can't hide it anymore and people are just you know waking up
01:00:55.280 and that would be one reason why they're allowing it they couldn't hide it 30 40 years ago people
01:01:02.120 knew people know right it's just maybe it's more acceptable these days but when you were talking
01:01:08.960 about pierre and justin trudeau going into dr green's office for the hypnosis
01:01:18.320 are we suggesting then that he has been justin has been programmed since he was a little kid
01:01:25.440 i i personally think i would entertain that idea you know i mean um to me he you know to
01:01:35.680 To me, he looks like he's been through trauma, you know, and it's affected him mentally, emotionally, you know.
01:01:43.940 I don't know, but that's not connecting to the Nazis necessarily, but here's the story, you know, here's the story.
01:01:50.820 And then there are the stories from, you know, Kathy O'Brien.
01:01:57.100 There's someone else also, I think Bryce, what's her name, Bryce Ford?
01:02:01.760 What's her name?
01:02:02.300 Susan Ford.
01:02:03.080 anyway um who also talks about trudeau in michigan
01:02:09.080 what does she say or can you say it's pretty much pretty much parallel to what kathy ford you know
01:02:17.800 excuse me kathy ford to someone else uh kathy o'brien says and that is parallel to what aneka
01:02:24.540 just told you know the interviewer that he was a violent pedophile and he and he was a programmer
01:02:31.840 He was a mind control programmer and he was part of this elite group that included the Clintons and the Gerald Ford and the Bush family and all the all the players, you know, and the Mackinac Island, I think, was also the location, which is in the in Lake Michigan.
01:02:47.160 um what do you think about all this i mean you you mentioned the jesuits
01:02:53.720 and we've talked about what annika lucas said to patrick pet david the other day you just
01:03:01.940 referenced it just now is there a global network is it real don't ask me i'm not part of it well
01:03:12.460 I mean, yeah, I think there's plenty of evidence, you know, that there is.
01:03:19.420 Does that mean, yeah, I think there is, you know.
01:03:25.300 Do you want to think that?
01:03:27.260 I mean, I think there's always been an elite that has had access to, you know, control, means of control and information and propaganda and all that.
01:03:36.920 There's nothing new about that.
01:03:38.040 And also mind control goes back thousands of years, you know,
01:03:40.640 I think was used in Babylonia, ancient Egypt, and even Greece and Rome.
01:03:46.040 And, you know, I think we've always, look at, look at two world wars, you know,
01:03:49.660 there had to, that was mind control that made people.
01:03:52.820 So what about, what about COVID-19?
01:03:55.440 Was that a, just a mind control operation?
01:03:57.820 Did you see that right from the get-go?
01:04:01.000 I, yeah, well, I'm trying to think now.
01:04:04.600 Yeah.
01:04:04.840 Yeah, I think so.
01:04:09.760 I think at least by the time the lockdowns came,
01:04:13.780 when I realized how it was more than a virus,
01:04:16.680 it wasn't just a virus that was threatening me,
01:04:21.680 it was the response to the virus
01:04:24.000 and all the, you know, what they were going to do,
01:04:28.760 make us do, that at that point,
01:04:31.040 I did connect it to MKUltra.
01:04:34.840 Yeah, for sure.
01:04:35.620 Because I saw the techniques being used.
01:04:37.300 And I remember, you know, watching television one night in British Columbia just with, you know, in a restaurant where they were playing this and saying to my friend, you know, how did they get all this?
01:04:49.360 It's a script and it's written.
01:04:51.420 This is not normal news coverage.
01:04:52.980 This is a program that they have been, they must have developed this six months ago to have it.
01:04:58.960 Everything was in place.
01:05:01.160 What you must do.
01:05:02.220 This is, these are the rules.
01:05:03.360 Here's what will happen.
01:05:04.840 here's you must do this you must you know it I said this is not respond a normal response to a
01:05:11.200 to a spontaneous threat that's just appeared where there would be you know and normally there
01:05:16.640 would be discussion there would be you know there would be people doing offering different solutions
01:05:21.180 and there would be a you know so a response like that going on in the media no the media had an
01:05:26.920 had already a program laid out with all the visuals you know almost the music too you know
01:05:32.760 they had everything that that daunting music right like that me everything they used was a
01:05:43.180 tactic to try and keep people in fear or first put them in fear and then keep them that way for
01:05:48.620 an extended period of time um and then everything that's happened since then you know if we talk
01:05:55.780 about like there are people out there and who actually believe that a man can have a baby
01:06:02.620 that a woman can be a man that a man can be a woman they believe that it's biological reality
01:06:11.340 and it blows it like how on earth have they been convinced of this complete and total obvious
01:06:20.460 nonsense again more i really don't know sorry is it mk ultra well okay um seriously they could be
01:06:31.200 using this on a mass scale now right we've heard about mass hypnosis or mass formation hypnosis
01:06:36.500 now doctors have diagnosed that and they're using the media obviously and social media to get their
01:06:44.840 message out there and and you know when you were talking about the pillows and that repeating
01:06:48.980 message you'll never amount to anything you're going to fail all of that stuff well i mean how
01:06:54.460 many times do we have to hear safe and effective safe and effective safe and effective or men can
01:07:01.560 be women over and over and over again right it's subliminal they're implanting these messages and
01:07:06.820 and i think the soft-minded people or the softer-minded people out there have already
01:07:12.440 been kind of hooked in yeah no and i think they you know it it goes back 60 years and more maybe
01:07:21.540 to the war and i think it actually started um i well one place it started was mcgill university
01:07:29.180 in montreal you know where they set up and it wasn't just 1957 although that's when the
01:07:34.540 subproject 68 that i was i believe i was in as a child right that's when that ran but but it goes
01:07:41.840 back to right after the war they were they were experimenting people even 1942 you know there are
01:07:46.880 some people in our in our lawsuit who had relatives and so on who who suffered the same procedures in
01:07:53.700 1942 you know they're the brainwashing was they were doing it then um and i think it goes back
01:08:00.960 even farther you know so there's been a whole development of social psychology um you know i'm
01:08:07.620 not an expert on all these things but you could take it back to freud and then you could go beyond
01:08:11.320 that into the 19th century when they studied hypnosis the the first uh you know um the
01:08:18.580 beginning of psychiatry was especially in you know okay it it took a it it intensified after
01:08:27.820 the first world war when they had all these soldiers coming back from the trenches in you
01:08:32.000 know from europe coming back to england and they were in shell they had shell shock and they you
01:08:37.720 know the military saw that as uh you know it was expensive and it was uh it was they wanted those
01:08:43.180 soldiers to go right back to the battlefield and and so they had to find ways to treat them so
01:08:46.900 that's when a lot of modern psychiatry comes out of the treatments for shell shock which involved
01:08:52.640 you know basically the same techniques of wipe wipe the traumatic memories and you know send
01:08:59.340 them back out there not remembering what happened to them and they won't and they'll be able to
01:09:03.620 function and that's really what they were doing to people in the 50s and 60s too in montreal and
01:09:09.640 other places but i think you have to you have to go to england you have to look at the you have to
01:09:14.840 look at england for you know the real origins of these things freud at the tavistock institute in
01:09:21.660 the 30s you know that's where this weaponized psychiatry and the methods began to develop
01:09:30.260 and i haven't studied in you know i haven't studied in a long time and i you know but um
01:09:35.640 you know there there were figures like kurt lewin who came to the states came to new york i think and
01:09:42.400 you know founded i think he founded the new york institute of psychiatry and then collected all
01:09:47.300 these people it was a great success story you know of how they managed to take to find all these
01:09:53.240 doctors psychiatrists you know um who were willing to work for the military and you know
01:10:00.000 it's a military
01:10:02.260 it's a military program
01:10:04.540 so they're willing to program 0.66
01:10:06.460 human beings willing to destroy
01:10:08.620 them in order to recreate 0.99
01:10:10.660 them and turn them you know
01:10:12.120 basically into controllable
01:10:13.980 robots that would be the ideal
01:10:16.560 who will do anything
01:10:18.340 that they say
01:10:19.300 who will rage
01:10:22.400 in the streets of Montreal yelling
01:10:24.320 free free Palestine maybe 0.94
01:10:26.380 something like that well I don't know about that
01:10:28.700 You know, I have other, I don't think that's 100%, but let me talk about that another time. 0.95
01:10:36.460 But definitely the people breaking the windows and going on a rampage, those are black block anarchist types. 0.96
01:10:45.600 You know, those people show up at all the demonstrations and they, some of them are robotic. 0.79
01:10:50.840 I mean, I've seen some of the cops are robotic these days.
01:10:54.000 you know there's physical types and they say there's a the tall uh ectomorphic type of rcmp
01:11:00.660 but then there's these these sort of foot soldiers that are like short and you know husky and they
01:11:06.640 are kind of mentally i don't know primitive and you know during the freedom convoy right like
01:11:14.020 i have heard so many people who have come on this show who were there on the last couple of days
01:11:19.340 when they sent the cops out to kettle the protesters
01:11:22.360 and people who were right there on that very front line.
01:11:26.680 And just the other week, I had a guy on telling me
01:11:29.180 he laid down in front of them and he looked up
01:11:31.440 and he tried to get them to talk.
01:11:34.280 They wouldn't answer him.
01:11:36.260 They wouldn't look at him.
01:11:37.520 They stood there like they were on pause or something
01:11:41.980 or they needed to be wound up again.
01:11:44.640 They were soldiers or they were police?
01:11:46.700 well we don't know because they had masks on and unidentifiable uniforms with no insignia so
01:11:53.600 and there's still a lot of people don't know who these these guys were yes and some people said
01:11:58.940 they were un troops or something they didn't they flew in on planes and yeah yeah some people were
01:12:04.920 saying that so i don't know i mean were these guys programmed were they a bunch of manchurian
01:12:09.980 candidates i mean that you know if you extrapolate from what they tried to do with mk ultra which
01:12:17.640 was a program like as you say lasted for 20 years almost in over 150 locations across the
01:12:25.880 united states alone here in in canada as well in montreal i mean like what have they done since
01:12:31.180 then you know because most people most people who study it say it never ended they just they
01:12:36.640 covered it up they they folded it you know they folded it up and they tried to put it away but it
01:12:41.240 it was ongoing and because they and then they claimed well it didn't really it didn't really
01:12:45.920 work it was a failure we couldn't we found out we couldn't get people hypnotized people and
01:12:51.240 mind control them they absolutely could but they don't admit it or we couldn't we couldn't get
01:12:57.200 people what is it train them to be remote viewers and so on yes they could you know yes they did
01:13:02.860 Remote viewing is something interesting that we've heard talked about on Art Bell, you know, overnight with Art Bell.
01:13:09.200 Like, he's talked about that for years.
01:13:11.020 What is that exactly?
01:13:12.260 Is that like being able to step out of your body and see something that's happening hundreds of miles away?
01:13:19.320 Yes, I think so.
01:13:21.460 We can all do it, supposedly.
01:13:23.660 You know, it's something that people innately are capable of, but some people seem to have a special ability.
01:13:31.000 i've i had a team spontaneously they grew up and they came to me and they um and they were all
01:13:39.380 capable of doing that i watched them at it i mean it was incredible to see them and some of my my
01:13:46.060 cold war parts there's a part of my cold war which is really about that experience people have a hard
01:13:52.340 time accepting it and if you don't actually witness it you know you might say well this is a hoax
01:13:57.080 they were faking you know they were but since i witnessed it and i know it was completely genuine
01:14:03.540 uh they had no previous information when they they just took off and they and they would bring
01:14:10.140 back they would go places and see things and talk to people and bring back the information and i
01:14:15.380 would uh i videotaped one of the sessions or someone with me who videotaped it and what does
01:14:22.100 look like their bodies just go limp and then they not really meant no they just sit there and there
01:14:29.020 but somehow something detaches you know they have this medium medium mystic ability and i swear they
01:14:38.820 and they didn't even really know one another there were about a dozen of these people in a room
01:14:42.860 that someone had brought together they'd come to take a course with him and that's why he had them
01:14:48.340 there and he said i'm going to bring i'm going to bring you to meet them and they're going and i'll
01:14:52.240 get them to you know we'll experiment we'll see if they can help you this was quite at the early
01:14:56.760 at the beginning of my book research and writing of my book so you asked you know did where do my
01:15:02.460 memories come from i have certain memories i have thousands of pages of research that i've read you
01:15:08.840 know documents that that were available then whoops i'm just throwing your book up there again
01:15:15.120 yeah yeah so it started with a re with research i had internet and i had unlimited time and i was
01:15:24.680 and i just read i'd read 12 hours a day you know and i'd read mk ultra about mk ultra this was you
01:15:32.360 know like at the beginning and i had reasons to think that i'd been somehow involved but i didn't
01:15:37.600 know how but then a year later i was back in montreal and i met a psychic named harley who
01:15:45.680 uh immediately started saying well your father is here i was it was at a fair very noisy place
01:15:51.500 and i just decided to go to this psychic fair and met him there he was not the person i was looking
01:15:57.240 for he said your father's here he's telling me he has a story he must tell you you know i will give
01:16:03.000 you two hours of my time come to my office and i will and we will get your story your father's
01:16:08.580 story i mean he didn't know me he didn't know and then he so i went to his office um and i hadn't
01:16:15.620 heard from my father had died 30 years earlier he said your father's been dead for 30 years but this
01:16:20.620 is his time now to tell the story and we're going to get it you know where he's going to tell you
01:16:24.500 now so he started just pouring out these details including things like the name of my father's best
01:16:30.060 friend and people's names dates you know all facts i mean he didn't know me from a hole in the
01:16:37.980 ground i had never met him before and and some of the stuff i actually had to go and ask my brother
01:16:42.540 what was dad's best friend's name yeah you know steve you know whatever and um that so it to be
01:16:50.300 totally genuine and then he said i think to anyone you would have gone wow i must follow up on this
01:16:56.780 So he said, come to this group, and I have these people.
01:16:59.760 They're all very gifted, and we'll see what will happen.
01:17:02.020 I went in, and all I said was, well, I'm trying to write a book,
01:17:06.600 and I think it's about Nazis when I was a kid.
01:17:10.140 And I was really like I had nothing.
01:17:12.120 I didn't even know why I was there, you know, what to say to them.
01:17:16.720 I told them nothing.
01:17:18.260 I said, okay.
01:17:19.640 And they went into a meditation, and then all of a sudden they were in a room
01:17:26.060 at McGill it was 1960 and there were children and one by one first they went to the party
01:17:35.800 and they described what was going on at the party including there was a little girl who had a polio
01:17:42.020 brace on a table and she was dead and the other children were standing around looking at her
01:17:49.260 she had died and that was one of the first things that they that they saw and then they saw
01:17:54.220 the games and what the symbols were. They named all the symbols on the cards
01:17:58.620 that children had to guess and then some of the rough games that were
01:18:02.620 going on and they just described this and then they spoke to a couple of
01:18:07.100 children and got the full story of why they were there, what brought them, who
01:18:12.400 they were and what happened later to these kids. So I wrote it all
01:18:17.740 down and then the following another meeting we had, we went to the laboratory
01:18:24.220 And there were about 10 kids living in the laboratory underground at McGill, and they all had names.
01:18:30.040 And each one of them told us, it was like we were interviewing, who are you and why are you here?
01:18:38.400 And there was one little girl, the first girl had, she was tied to a chair with electrodes in her head, coming out of her head, tied to a machine.
01:18:48.480 And we said, how long have you been there?
01:18:49.980 She said, I don't know, it's been years.
01:18:51.380 and uh when i when i need to pee i just pee you know she never she couldn't leave the chair
01:18:57.680 and uh she was 16 years old she told us her mother's name i looked her up there were several
01:19:06.000 other kids who told equally her you know all kinds of things happened um um later i actually
01:19:13.120 looked i got two of the names i went down to the archives the city montreal and i found both of them
01:19:18.440 in the archives and uh and with a proper with the proper dates you know the those dates
01:19:26.400 so you could say that with psychic research you know but you know you could you could have all
01:19:33.300 kinds of experiences on the psychic plane you can't prove it you can't prove any of it you can
01:19:37.380 just you have a vivid story but in this case there were some things that i was able to verify
01:19:44.240 with research yeah yeah yeah well if you can verify them then i suppose you can explain it
01:19:52.600 i don't know how they did it but you know what i mean but this is the the research i did they were
01:20:00.500 right how is that even possible unless they're telling the truth that they were there yeah
01:20:07.900 as they did remote viewing let me ask you and oh go ahead no no that's it i just thank you yeah
01:20:15.240 thank you for getting it sure um i want to talk about leonard cohen and what you told me was very
01:20:24.760 interesting earlier today when we were talking about him kind of appearing at places where there
01:20:34.040 was going to be an event a major event and one of them was the shooting of john lennon
01:20:41.140 because we had heard and and i ran one uh piece on my my website last week that mark david chapman
01:20:51.760 was a stooge or somebody under mk ultra mind control who did it because when he's questioned
01:21:00.040 later he doesn't know why he did it he didn't hate john lennon it had nothing to do with that book
01:21:06.520 the catcher in the rye he liked john lennon he got an autograph from john lennon on on his latest
01:21:12.100 album that afternoon and then he turned and shoots him five times and he can't explain why
01:21:18.960 like what but leonard cohen was there wasn't he
01:21:25.120 uh yeah he was well here's another story tell that story please i mean that's such an interesting
01:21:34.360 story that i think people want to hear that well i can't tell it i can't do justice to the you know
01:21:41.860 an interview like this really to the intricacies but there but it took it was over go ahead take
01:21:47.540 your time take your time i mean you know what guys once again tonight we're gonna go long
01:21:52.240 just like we did last night but i find this stuff fascinating and uh you know you've got
01:21:58.320 you can edit it right later no i know you can't
01:22:02.360 1500 people watching us right now they were here they want to hear it
01:22:08.640 hi oh my that many now i'm now i have stage fright no okay no i
01:22:14.400 i can tell it i've told it i've told it many times i would see i wrote i wrote a memoir called
01:22:21.280 um the man next door Leonard Cohen and the man next door I when I got to the end that's when I
01:22:28.700 realized that yeah he likely whatever that that um when I got to the very end of the book that's
01:22:38.360 when I realized what I had just not proven but I'd basically told it okay what it's okay
01:22:46.920 to sum it up because
01:22:49.260 I was living
01:22:51.600 I had had I was
01:22:52.960 28
01:22:54.720 29 years old in
01:22:57.540 1980
01:22:59.520 and I had gotten
01:23:01.740 a grant to write a novel
01:23:03.540 you could say I was a young
01:23:05.720 you know Canadian writer
01:23:07.200 and I scored
01:23:09.220 a Canada Council grant and
01:23:10.940 I had $9,000 so I decided
01:23:13.600 to take it to Greece and live on the
01:23:15.600 island of Hydra
01:23:16.460 for the winter thinking it would be lovely but warm and pleasant but actually it was the worst
01:23:22.740 winter of my life but in any case I was there and um there's there's more to the story because
01:23:30.300 it really started in Tel Aviv at the end of November when I I had been I'd been traveling
01:23:36.800 in Egypt a bit from gone from Greece started getting cold in November so I went down to
01:23:40.740 Egypt and I had wanted to see the pyramids and so on and then and then I said okay Leonard's
01:23:45.340 giving a concert in Tel Aviv at the end of November I'll go to the concert in fact I'll
01:23:51.280 meet him at the airport because I knew him you know I had already known him for a few years at
01:23:55.400 that point and he liked me and we got on well so I met the I met the plane and then joined the
01:24:03.080 got on the bus with the with the band and Leonard you know and went to the hotel in Tel Aviv and
01:24:07.880 then and then at the end I you know at the end of the concert a couple days later I said well I'm
01:24:13.840 going to greece i'm going to spend the winter on hedra i said oh that's an interesting idea
01:24:19.640 and the next thing i know he was on hedra
01:24:23.580 uh and in his house and he said you know his kids were coming for the went for the for christmas
01:24:31.900 hanukkah it was it was the end of november starting to be you know cold and rainy and
01:24:38.200 and um i saw him a few times and then there was a period there was a period we had kind of a little
01:24:44.880 something happened and i was uh uh i didn't see him for about 10 days two weeks and then in the
01:24:52.680 middle of december i saw him getting off i saw him with his family his children and the nanny
01:24:57.240 he was separated from his wife but they were they were arriving on the island of hedra it's an island
01:25:03.240 near Athens that's accessible
01:25:05.100 by boat, by hydrofoil
01:25:07.400 and so on, and
01:25:08.320 about two hours from Athens.
01:25:11.120 And so he was,
01:25:12.060 since the last time I'd seen him, he had lost about
01:25:15.040 10 pounds. He was
01:25:17.340 gaunt. He had grown a beard
01:25:19.280 and he looked like he was coming from a war zone
01:25:21.420 really. And I didn't know, okay.
01:25:23.500 So that was on December 14th,
01:25:25.700 1980, five,
01:25:27.360 six days after John Lennon was shot.
01:25:30.960 And
01:25:31.480 I had been
01:25:33.240 on the island since the end of november and i was started trying to write my novel because i thought
01:25:37.640 i've got to get this written i've got to start work you know got to get down to business so i'd
01:25:40.840 been in my room for about 10 days it had been raining and i hadn't seen leonard in those 10
01:25:46.680 days but so i'd seen him on the night of december 5th okay john allen was shot on december 8th
01:25:54.840 and so i heard about that everybody was in shock i didn't try to see leonard i because i was feeling
01:26:05.540 a little embarrassed about something that happened so it's the last time i'd seen him so um i waited
01:26:11.260 to run into him and then that day i was walking through the port there he was getting off the
01:26:15.020 getting off the hydrofoil with his family and ready to spend christmas and looking awful
01:26:19.420 okay where can i say i just i said isn't it awful about what happened to john lennon
01:26:27.040 later when i saw him for coffee a couple a day a couple of days later he was carrying a copy of
01:26:34.500 the newsweek magazine that said lennon's in reagan's lennon's out reagan's in and he shows
01:26:43.020 me this newsweek and he's obviously totally in love with ronald reagan i said isn't it awful
01:26:48.100 about john lennon he said i never liked the beatles and then end of conversation he didn't
01:26:55.460 discuss it any further okay just keep it in mind that's what happened uh within a week or two of
01:27:03.300 john lennon's death and i saw him another time there was well to tell you the truth there was a
01:27:08.660 pistol on the table in his house when i visited him and i said what's that doing here it's like a
01:27:15.460 smith and west or something you know glock i don't know what it was was on the table
01:27:21.240 i've never seen leonard cohen he never struck me as a gun guy
01:27:25.240 no i mean either he's a poet he said well everyone's gonna have to have one of these
01:27:32.380 he says we're all gonna need to he was teaching his children how to shoot they were like six and
01:27:37.740 four or something at the time no six and eight the girl was six the boy was eight so he was
01:27:43.960 teaching and giving them target practice in the garden and he said i'm teaching them to use a gun
01:27:49.580 because we're all going to need you know in the future this is few was where it's going to be war
01:27:54.620 and uh i was pretty i don't know i was just kind of disgusted in a way you know that's
01:28:02.480 that just well i said you know if you think that way it'll happen you know but anyway
01:28:07.040 years go by
01:28:08.820 let me see how to tell
01:28:10.600 I want to wrap this up
01:28:12.520 years go by and biography
01:28:15.020 comes out on Leonard Cohen
01:28:16.400 it's like 1995 so 15 years
01:28:18.920 have passed
01:28:19.600 and I'm asked to review
01:28:22.220 this biography
01:28:23.560 because I knew him
01:28:25.980 the local
01:28:28.380 entertainment paper they just wanted a quick
01:28:30.920 little review
01:28:31.480 I start going through the biography
01:28:34.620 and
01:28:36.280 i start noticing these things that seem odd and one of the things i notice like this that are
01:28:42.700 incorrect like i thought like i didn't research this very well because this is wrong and here's
01:28:48.280 something that's definitely wrong it says that leonard cohen was in new york on december 11th
01:28:53.900 1980 um no you know he was on hedra in december of 1980 he was there the whole month i saw him
01:29:05.360 all the every lots of people saw him and this is incorrect but it was written on it was a piece of
01:29:10.880 hotel stationery where he from new york the algonquin hotel in manhattan and he had started
01:29:17.340 writing a song on that stationery and it wasn't you know so it was part of this you know the
01:29:23.360 collection of papers that you hand over to biographers i guess you know when you give your
01:29:28.800 you give them stacks of things to go through and they found that and i said it's impossible and i
01:29:34.200 wrote a review I said you know this biography is full of mistakes and here's a really big one
01:29:39.300 Leonard wasn't in New York he never talked and not only that he never said he was in New York
01:29:45.120 he never said I went off to New York and came back but what had to have happened was I saw him
01:29:50.960 on the 5th and then I saw him on the 14th I saw him as he was leaving for New York but I didn't
01:29:56.560 know he was leaving for New York at the time and I saw him as he was coming back from New York
01:30:00.620 and he never said I was in New York
01:30:02.600 when John Lennon was shot
01:30:03.720 how can that be
01:30:05.340 you know but in fact the second biography
01:30:08.460 came out a few years later and the same
01:30:10.720 fact
01:30:11.660 you know hotels
01:30:14.420 on the Algonquin Hotel
01:30:16.340 December 11th 1980
01:30:17.920 he's celebrating Hanukkah
01:30:20.020 he says and he's writing that he's celebrating
01:30:22.400 Hanukkah with his kids well
01:30:23.600 December 11th Hanukkah was already over
01:30:25.820 and that was some kind of alibi
01:30:27.780 so all to say how can i make this it's it the biggest thing is that i saw him so many times
01:30:36.420 over that winter and i knew many people who saw him and there was not one person who ever said
01:30:40.820 leonard was in new york when john leonard was shot did you hear you know because he never told a soul
01:30:46.660 that he'd been in new york how does that work there was other situations where he was at the
01:30:56.540 at the epicenter of other things that happened in the world and he happened to be there but
01:31:06.060 nobody knew it until later right because each yeah and each one of these events that he went to they
01:31:12.040 were they were ops or you know call them i guess missions or they were things that were planned
01:31:17.980 like the assassination of john lennon was had to have been planned i mean yeah you can even see
01:31:26.440 that if you just follow mark david chapman's um you know travels and so on you can see that he
01:31:33.300 was building up to that for over a year he he sort of knew he was you know he i think he was
01:31:41.260 offered the chance to be the assassin and he couldn't quite live up to it and when it came
01:31:47.300 down to it um uh there's a new there's a new book that i saw recent that has been out for a while
01:31:53.140 by uh david whalen and it's called the assassination of john lennon yeah yeah yep
01:31:59.460 it's called uh mind games maybe i'm not sure but anyway yeah the assassination of john lennon is
01:32:07.360 what and and he looks into that uh situation very thoroughly and he said it mark david chapman
01:32:15.840 either was under mind control or he couldn't have acted alone or maybe it was both but getting
01:32:22.940 back to Leonard Cohen for a second the bullet came from the wrong direction for it to have been
01:32:27.700 you know for example he was shot through I forget you know it was a front or the back and at a
01:32:31.660 certain angle and Chapman wasn't nowhere near that you know nowhere able to shoot to shoot those
01:32:38.040 bullets plus even if you shot a gun in that situation with with Lennon um there's no eye
01:32:46.220 actual eyewitness who's ever
01:32:48.280 come out and said,
01:32:49.600 I saw John Lennon get
01:32:52.120 shot, even though they say
01:32:53.940 there were tons of people all over the place
01:32:56.420 when he was getting out of the car that time.
01:32:59.160 And Yoko
01:33:00.140 has never said it.
01:33:02.440 Okay. Right, exactly.
01:33:04.580 Yoko has sort of fudged 0.99
01:33:05.700 on a number of things.
01:33:07.060 She told
01:33:09.060 a story about how she broke down.
01:33:11.800 Anyway, I
01:33:13.160 think Waylon's book is really excellent.
01:33:14.980 um Waylon said there's an eyewitness and I have the thing is I've told my long involved story about
01:33:21.660 why it makes no sense that Leonard he was he's provably it seems in New York during the week
01:33:29.500 that Lennon was shot how could you make that trip come back to this island where you plan to spend
01:33:35.260 the next six months or a year you know basically he was there to hide or cool off and get back to
01:33:42.520 normal having you know in my opinion having been part of that operation in new york but never
01:33:48.760 saying a word you know to anyone about it how could you have been there by accident you know
01:33:53.120 and just went to new york and just happened that lennon was shot that weekend but that's one thing
01:33:58.900 that might happen but um the biographies lie about it and they you know they say he they they actually
01:34:05.760 say he went to new york and then he stayed in america all that year so the and there's been
01:34:11.240 the actual creation of a of a fake story in the it's in the biographies where they claim he was
01:34:17.180 in north america kind of doing not much of anything i'm talking about leonard now right
01:34:21.900 but actually he was on hedra the entire almost the entire year i saw him multiple times and
01:34:27.480 there are other witnesses but that was erased because that was his his getaway his alibi you
01:34:35.360 know being on hedra was a place to cool off and to hide out but you wouldn't want anyone to know
01:34:40.300 that you'd go into New York on December 5th
01:34:42.240 and then came back on the 14th
01:34:43.740 and never told anybody you've been in New York.
01:34:45.960 You'd never want that story to be known, right?
01:34:48.880 Was Leonard, was he MKUltra?
01:34:54.620 Yeah, absolutely.
01:34:56.920 I think he was a successful Manchurian candidate.
01:35:00.780 I think he was one of the few.
01:35:02.320 I think most of the people they tried to program
01:35:04.860 became schizophrenic or psychotic
01:35:09.320 or whatever broke down and committed suicide and generally you cannot take a person and program
01:35:14.120 them and turn them into a killer and you know or a hypnotic uh whatever robot hypnotized robot it
01:35:22.240 usually doesn't work but i think in his case he's an incredible he had incredible mental strength and
01:35:27.380 imagination and capacities you know that most people don't have and he actually i believe
01:35:32.320 i believe became what they wanted him to be but he also maintained this vast kind of consciousness
01:35:41.240 that you know he was a very unusual human being with uh who was very aware of the program of what
01:35:51.140 was going on but just didn't tell people you asked a question earlier that i that i avoided
01:35:59.060 i forget now i was back in a few minutes a few minutes ago you asked me something and i went
01:36:05.360 back to repeating my story about hedra but um and why i think that you know i don't know i can't
01:36:12.980 remember now i was just asking why you believe this i mean i know you spent time with him but
01:36:19.540 you made fun at the beginning of the show tonight when you said yeah i was i think i was every girl
01:36:24.740 in Montreal dated Leonard Cohen all right um but you spent time with him did he show did he show
01:36:32.340 the behavior of somebody who had been altered yeah well he definitely had um a high level uh
01:36:41.480 that I've never seen in anyone else maybe one or two other people but who were also in that program
01:36:45.940 of esp um like he actually he really could several i know i won't say numerous times but i know i
01:36:55.640 can think of several times he actually read my my mind and spoke my thought to me for example
01:37:00.800 you know i mean a thought suddenly came into my mind out of nowhere and he then it's but and then
01:37:05.180 he spoke it you know that that i you know i saw that he also we would watch tv and he would
01:37:12.320 anticipate the dialogue just consistently he could go on and on and on anticipating the next
01:37:17.920 line of dialogue in the in the in the show you know um word for word he had you know and i was
01:37:26.800 told by other people that he you know he had the ability to like hold up a card and guess that you
01:37:31.940 know someone told me that on hedra someone who knew him said they found a plane card on the ground
01:37:35.960 and leonard said hold it up put it on your forehead and i will i will guess it and he did
01:37:40.260 and he got it you know and that's sort of he a lot of people i think saw him doing those kinds
01:37:47.140 of things um he had also uh he had a deep interest in violence and uh i'm not saying he was ever
01:37:55.720 violent with me but he he wasn't he was actually very mostly very very nice to me but um and very
01:38:03.440 understanding and parental almost you know but but i've heard he was violent with other women
01:38:10.260 yeah so people told me you know so he had he would say multiple personalities
01:38:16.580 that's for sure that's wild and if they can do that
01:38:23.660 what else can they do
01:38:26.740 what else can they do to people what they aim to do was you know yeah there's a book it's called
01:38:36.220 carry on comfort i'm not sure if you've ever heard of it you said you read a lot so i thought
01:38:41.000 i'd throw it out there it's by a guy called dan simmons it's a work of fiction and it talks about
01:38:46.680 this small cabal of people who secretly control the world but they have the ability to control
01:38:55.260 other people through their minds and it's a terrible terrible book it's a great book great
01:39:03.840 story but a terrible book if you know what i mean it's it's almost like you're offended reading it
01:39:11.680 because of the things that these people do imagine having that kind of power where you could actually
01:39:19.080 go into somebody else's body and control them like a puppet which is what these characters in
01:39:24.320 this book do. What kind of a person would that be? Would that person be human at that stage of
01:39:36.480 the game? When we talk about the rich, the elite, the people who apparently feed off something
01:39:42.320 called adrenochrome, and yes, YouTube algorithms, there is in fact a substance that is called
01:39:47.980 adrenochrome these people live a different plane of existence than the rest of us do
01:39:55.220 right they don't have to go shopping every day they're not bothered by the day-to-day 0.98
01:40:01.180 naggings of the rest of the world the useless eaters out there these people they they live 1.00
01:40:06.960 above us in the clouds almost what kind of people would these be and what would they be capable of 1.00
01:40:17.980 Right? These are the kinds of people who might think, hey, I'm going to grab somebody off the street and put them in a mind control experiment. Or I'm going to go and get a little girl who's four or five years old and put her in a mind control experiment for 10 or 12 years, just to see what happens.
01:40:39.720 well
01:40:44.060 i think that's the the mentality is a psychopathic you know
01:40:50.000 heartless uh no limits you know kind of mentality that drives these people the people that are drawn
01:41:00.220 to to these kinds of professions or whatever they are and people who go into the military
01:41:07.980 or people who go into business you know into government they say you know it's the sociopaths
01:41:12.220 who rise to the top it's the people that you know who sees control of organizations are these kinds
01:41:17.580 of people cold calculating but also maybe you know people who will follow orders too i mean you know
01:41:25.740 i i i don't like the rich very much i've had minimal kind of experience experience with them
01:41:34.780 but uh one place you know was this the this greek island hedra there were quite a lot of millionaires
01:41:40.620 and various kinds of people that they lived there with backgrounds you know in these they weren't
01:41:46.300 the high level people but they but they had money and they were idle and really i hated the i hated
01:41:52.700 the atmosphere i just don't want to be with people like that but obviously there are people who yeah
01:41:59.980 they're psychopaths i mean you know we we heard about that a little bit annika lucas talked about
01:42:06.800 that and you know um some of the people she named names in that interview she did with uh patrick
01:42:12.300 pet david david we're talking about the ultra rich you know if you got 10 million dollars
01:42:18.280 whatever i'm talking about the power to buy an island or live in an aircraft that never has to
01:42:27.260 land like that's that's the kind of wealthy that we're talking about rockefeller de rothschild
01:42:33.900 gates musk people with that kind of money who never ever ever have to see what real life is like
01:42:44.100 they've never ridden on a bus they've never shopped for groceries they have never done 0.98
01:42:48.460 anything like that their only intention is to improve the world
01:42:53.260 well they're not improving it they're turning it into a hell
01:43:01.040 what i'm saying is from their perspective i'm like they believe that their only purpose in
01:43:09.580 life is is to improve the world it's it's you know they feel like they're that's their calling
01:43:17.660 that's what they were born for yeah delusion they don't feel they're doing evil yeah they're
01:43:23.060 delusional you're right you're right but they i guess they they do have a plan i you know i would
01:43:28.940 like you i think i think of them as another species almost you know they're not um
01:43:34.020 and i'm definitely not drawn to being around them um i i think they're monsters essentially you know
01:43:43.500 and i i don't discount the you know the reptilian conspiracy either because actually i have a sense
01:43:51.680 that they they are of different of a different race or species you know from the from average
01:43:56.760 humans who have other reasons we humans have reasons for being here that they that these
01:44:02.220 entities have never you know they don't consider they're not driven by it's all very interesting
01:44:08.780 but you know we start talking about the mk ultra experiments that you were a part of
01:44:14.500 and then you start to think well what were they doing this for what were they trying to achieve
01:44:21.160 did they accomplish what they wanted are they still going on who you know what people out there
01:44:28.360 are the results of these experiments you know what exactly is klaus schwab from the world economic
01:44:35.760 forum talking about when he when he talks about the young global leaders and we have penetrated
01:44:40.820 the cabinets what exactly does that mean the guy sounds like a bond villain we all joke about it
01:44:46.060 but who's to say that all of these people that that he deals with aren't under some kind of
01:44:52.580 control macron and france and starmer and in the uk and joe biden i mean who knows what was going
01:44:58.140 on with that guy for the last four years maybe they took his implants out in the last year or
01:45:03.380 something and he was unable to think it's become yeah leaders of the world are completely there
01:45:10.720 yeah they're completely controlled it seems you know it's surreal what we're witnessing and and
01:45:17.000 we're just being conditioned to accept it as normal there's nothing normal about it and these
01:45:23.520 people are all unelected basically you know either they either they're just put in these positions
01:45:27.540 like schwab i don't know how he got what you know what is that the world economic forum i mean you
01:45:32.300 know who created that it's a it's an ngo or something it's a it's completely independent
01:45:36.940 of any sort of you know and yet any public you know uh oversight and yet they want to completely
01:45:43.680 transform humanity i mean yeah yeah their mission is to change the world come on are you kidding me
01:45:50.820 right like well we're transforming nobody asked you to do that hey did you watch uh and did you
01:45:58.500 watch all of annika's interview annika lucas's interview almost all of it i did i i kind of
01:46:05.300 trailed off at the end um so i don't know if it if it i forget now what she was getting into but i
01:46:11.340 was anyway i stopped at a certain point that toward the last 20 because he wanted her to name
01:46:17.540 names and she wanted to talk more about the healing process and i want to talk about that
01:46:22.540 with you in a couple of minutes but what was your take on on some of the things that she that she
01:46:27.140 said i mean and her experiences oh i've listened to a few of her interviews and i think she's
01:46:34.260 extremely extremely articulate and and she has really worked on this this on this subject you
01:46:42.460 know and worked on herself and and and it's it's really um given her a a language to describe
01:46:50.220 the process i think she's absolutely brilliant you know and what she has to share
01:46:54.160 and to me it seems completely real and I and it's all it seems also all based on her having had this
01:47:00.420 very you know strange uh what's the word childhood this horrible childhood you know very only like I
01:47:08.960 said did I say it each story is different yeah each story of each child getting into these
01:47:15.020 programs would be there for slight it would be slightly different in each case depending on the
01:47:19.020 parent. So in her case, she had a certain type of mother who was the reason, you know. And I think 0.99
01:47:25.960 also Anneka has a certain personality, which I think is a star performer. I think she was
01:47:33.560 maybe born to be what they saw in her, you know, what they saw her becoming a singer and a kind of
01:47:41.880 sex symbol and a performer. She had all that in her. And I think that's why she was singled out 0.94
01:47:48.920 for particularly bad treatment
01:47:50.620 because
01:47:51.840 she disappointed them.
01:47:56.620 Someone else
01:47:57.960 might not have gone as far 0.99
01:48:00.680 into it as she went because she
01:48:02.680 had the
01:48:04.160 qualities.
01:48:07.280 So
01:48:07.840 I find her completely
01:48:10.660 believable. I mean, to me, there's no question.
01:48:13.100 It doesn't even occur to me to not
01:48:14.600 believe her. Brave.
01:48:16.700 Absolutely brave.
01:48:17.700 when did you first find out and that you had been part of these experiments did you like when you
01:48:25.800 were part of them did you even realize it because you mentioned earlier that you just thought it was
01:48:30.680 normal and when you were first started you were just turning five of course you would think that
01:48:36.880 it's normal right like everybody does it well did you the thing is i had you know
01:48:42.080 yeah she talked about that a bit too she i think she talked about how she had no idea she was part
01:48:48.600 of anything and then the memories began coming they began flooding well i have not done a therapy
01:48:53.620 to the extent that she's done it and i have not uh i have been warned not to not to get hypnotized
01:49:01.340 about this and to look into what really happened to me so in some ways i'm a timid you know i guess
01:49:07.980 i'm more timid what i've done is i've i have studied around it but um to begin with you know
01:49:15.820 i i researched mk ultra like for a year i couldn't stop i was so uh riveted to this information i
01:49:23.940 would read like like i said 12 hours a day um just documents just taking it all in just and
01:49:29.940 then corresponding with some of the survivors but i didn't yet understand that i had been in it i
01:49:35.440 knew that my family had been because because from the very outset of when i first asked the question
01:49:43.120 uh i started with a question i asked myself one day in 2000 to 2002 i said i'd read a book about
01:49:51.360 the nazi the denazification of nazi germany it was called the good i forget what the good nazi or
01:49:58.560 something i forget what it was called but anyway it was a novel and and and uh about the taking
01:50:03.360 getting Operation Paperclip, how it began in Berlin when they were looking for Nazi scientists
01:50:09.180 and recruiting them and taking them to America. So it was a book about that. And suddenly I asked
01:50:14.620 myself, I wonder if Dr. Mengele ever worked for the CIA. And I had been to Auschwitz that same
01:50:22.040 summer in June. I spent a month in Poland or a few weeks in Poland. And I've been to Auschwitz
01:50:28.300 and i went to mengala's clinic and i had this kind of well there's some kind of fixation about
01:50:33.320 mengala it's a whole story in itself so but so i had this question about mengala dr mengala okay
01:50:39.240 he's like very important to the mk ultra story because he they used his methods the called
01:50:46.680 trauma that are called trauma-based mind control as the as the basis for a lot of what they were
01:50:52.860 doing you know the he would he would torture children in his clinic in auschwitz uh twins
01:51:01.380 and so on he liked twins but other children too and and he tortured them to the point of you know
01:51:06.480 death almost and the following day they would have no memory of it they would call it daddy
01:51:10.540 and they would love him and he you know he was so he was an expert in what with trauma you can erase
01:51:16.660 memory if you traumatize somebody enough they won't remember what you've done to them
01:51:22.860 this is incredible this is you know it's counter intuitive you know it's we don't it's very hard
01:51:28.380 for people to realize that but that's i i would say um yeah the basis of the whole thing is you
01:51:35.020 forget horror especially if it's real it happens to you so i asked this question did mangela ever
01:51:42.780 work for the cia and i googled it and the first thing that came up for some reason that i have no
01:51:48.700 idea 1962 montreal dr ewan cameron uh mcgill university allen memorial and then there was
01:51:58.420 some article of it said mangalo somehow became was mixed into this so i couldn't believe it
01:52:04.000 because 1962 that's when my father went into the allen memorial of mcgill university in montreal
01:52:08.740 you know and i had been thinking about him a lot too you know like what happened to my father what
01:52:14.600 was that all about so that's how I started the research um it still took me it and I'll tell you
01:52:21.460 it wasn't it was at least a year or two it was when I met the that group that I told you about
01:52:27.740 the remote viewers and when they and they began pulling in these children and by the way I can
01:52:34.100 send you a script of that if you ever want to read it because it's word for word what happened
01:52:39.940 right what they said what they told us it's totally amazing it's a you know it's a play
01:52:46.020 it's a you know dramatic whatever um scenario uh and you can read it and you can judge for
01:52:54.600 yourself is this real you know but um it was only when i went through that and it i was with them
01:53:02.320 for a couple of years and and slowly i began and began saying things to me like i'd be sitting
01:53:07.680 next to somebody and he would turn to me and say uh just somebody i had never met before who
01:53:12.620 happened to be there in the group that night he'd say there's a there's a man here he wants you know
01:53:16.960 he's trying to give you a message and he was seeing this man on the spiritual plane i wasn't
01:53:22.580 experiencing anything and he said his name is and he said uh he well he said you used to know him
01:53:29.460 he was your psychiatrist you called him dolan but his real name is nolan so and you know he he he's
01:53:38.440 very sorry for what he did to you as a child um and it was he was kind of obliged to do it or
01:53:44.700 that's what everybody was doing and and now he's paying the price he's in the next world
01:53:48.900 and he's paying a price for that for what he did to children so i take all this in i go home and i
01:53:54.980 i google around and i find instantly dr nolan dc lewis colleague of you know cameron uh from the
01:54:04.260 new york institute of psychiatry of columbia university in the year and so on and i look at
01:54:09.020 his dates and what he did later a couple years later a german researcher contacts me and us
01:54:14.780 business i put it in my book i put his name in there and somebody googles and finds my book and
01:54:20.540 and he has been he's done a phd thesis on dr nolan lewis and confirms everything and that
01:54:27.560 and where he was and what he did and he was absolutely you know a psychoanalyst working
01:54:31.980 for the military so where am i what's the question so that's how when did you realize
01:54:39.360 That's how I approached it.
01:54:42.640 Yeah.
01:54:44.880 So for me, it was almost an intellectual process.
01:54:49.740 I was warned, do not get hypnotized by people who had a spouse or someone they knew or had done it themselves.
01:54:58.100 They'd been hypnotized about their MKUltra memories from childhood.
01:55:02.980 And that was the end of them.
01:55:04.340 they were on they were completely disabled by the the flooding was completely debilitating
01:55:11.860 they spent all their waking hours and sleeping hours remembering horrible things that were done
01:55:19.880 and i was told don't do it you're functioning you know you're you're you're okay you have memory
01:55:26.520 walls you have you know you've been able to you've had a life that's what you know up to now
01:55:31.920 Some people are so damaged by those experiments, they need to go through that therapy process just in order to live.
01:55:41.260 But in the end, you know, they can end up on drugs, disability, all kinds of stuff, you know, diagnosed as psychotic or whatever, because they've done that work.
01:55:52.720 It's a risk and it's a huge investment.
01:55:55.400 So early on, it's as though I was being told, approach it at your own speed from the outside.
01:56:01.920 you know, from the, as a journalist, rather than a victim. And so slowly, you know, but then slowly,
01:56:10.020 you know, the inside and the outside start to meet. I mean, I had my own memories and subjective,
01:56:14.460 you know, experiences and so on. Plus, I had people that I knew. That's the whole thing is that
01:56:20.080 it seems I was with a group of children, most of them died. I was a weekend child, or I would come
01:56:29.020 after school i was coming and going they were stuck in there and they and most of them they
01:56:34.140 didn't get out because they they would have been a danger you know a threat to mcgill to to the
01:56:40.460 scientists right they would have been able to report but i was being mind-controlled memory
01:56:46.940 wiped and taken home and i didn't know where i'd been this is my this is what i believe this is
01:56:53.340 what i've put together about my life and that there's a huge gaps and you know like i missed
01:56:58.080 100 days of school in grade two exactly 100 days 100 days out of 200 and I still you know got top
01:57:05.420 marks and you know seven years old praise from the teacher and so on but I mean I wasn't in school
01:57:11.520 they were taking me out they were and that's when I probably spent quite a bit of time with Leonard
01:57:16.580 Cohen downtown because he seemed to have he seemed to remember me from as a child he spoke to me as
01:57:24.060 if he remembered me as a child he called me we annie you know and various kinds of jokes he would
01:57:29.880 make interesting that trying to see whether i remembered do you remember him from childhood
01:57:37.100 no this is another thing no i it's like no i remember seeing him for the first time on
01:57:45.560 television when i was 15 and he was singing the stranger song and it's absolutely imprinted in me
01:57:50.740 you know that that performance on canadian television and after that i was very interested
01:57:56.460 in him i bought his books and i later bought a record and so on you know and then i met him i
01:58:01.880 began seeing him in the streets in montreal he would be wandering he'd be in the streets and he
01:58:06.340 he'd often greet me or he didn't know who i was but i was just a girl and he talked to girls you
01:58:13.400 know and and i was tall and he liked tall girls or something but no and then when i met him uh he
01:58:20.200 He phoned me up one night.
01:58:21.640 He got my phone number from someone.
01:58:24.360 And I went to see him.
01:58:29.180 This is 1977 when I was 26.
01:58:32.820 And he played a song on his guitar.
01:58:35.740 You know, he greeted me.
01:58:36.840 He made tea.
01:58:38.220 He entered kind of, and it was very entertaining.
01:58:40.220 He was very friendly.
01:58:42.800 And looking back, I think he was trying to see if I remembered him.
01:58:48.240 but i didn't really you know i didn't have those memories i wonder if he was playing a certain song
01:58:56.940 on his guitar that may have been a trigger for you to remember that yeah it didn't work huh well
01:59:04.620 he played you know he pulled out his guitar and i said oh he's going to play joan of arc
01:59:08.940 because that was the song i most maybe identified with i thought i think he's going to play joan of
01:59:13.320 but no he didn't he played Red River Valley this cowboy song and I knew all the words and I sang
01:59:20.220 along but when I think back I think you see he it is known that he used to be at the Allen Memorial
01:59:27.860 I mean he many people have told me and it's I don't know if it's written down but he would
01:59:33.500 he would be there smoking with his friends there were some other poets they were in there they
01:59:38.160 were schizophrenic or they were being treated for they were being they were experimental subjects
01:59:42.680 basically and they'd sit in the common room smoking cigarettes he'd have his guitar and
01:59:46.440 they'd sing cowboy songs and and if one of the first songs that you know he was one of the
01:59:51.240 songs he used to play was red river valley and i you know i knew all the words i mean i don't know
01:59:56.920 where i don't know when i learned that song i could have learned it at any point in my life
02:00:00.680 but when he started to play it i sang along and i think it's you know it's again i don't know but
02:00:06.760 it's quite likely that as a little girl i would wander into the you know into the common room
02:00:12.680 sit down and you know and listen to them play and sing along you know and uh during one of my
02:00:19.580 times away from school when I was meeting mental patients and being whatever whatever they were
02:00:25.780 doing to me um apparently I was a I was a personality there as a little girl and um I was
02:00:34.780 a fixture you know because that friends of Leonard told I you know that I met this it's like they
02:00:42.160 they spoke to me as if they remembered me as a little girl also and i remember that made no sense
02:00:46.660 at the time you know this is later in life when i met these people but they say oh annie you know
02:00:52.600 and oh yeah and they'd sort of say things that suggested the the relationship had a history
02:00:58.560 well i thought i was meeting them for the first time as adults it's interesting we all have
02:01:05.740 things we can't remember everybody does but you have got major gaps probably still unless somebody
02:01:15.040 can fill them in for you and the older we get the less likely we're we're going to be able to
02:01:20.920 find out what happened because those people aren't around anymore are you angry about that
02:01:29.140 that that you have had part of your life taken away or is that like ancient memory now
02:01:36.900 okay well that's a really good question how do i yeah no i frankly
02:01:43.380 i feel i got off really easy
02:01:47.180 i even in some ways benefited from this
02:01:52.440 uh experience i had i'm not trying to say it was a good experience or that i'm not
02:01:58.740 damage because i think i'm quite damaged you know i mean i've sensed that i've had trouble
02:02:04.020 in relationships for most of my life but it's getting better you know and um fears and all
02:02:10.000 kinds you know all kinds of strange things and i have this i apparently i have some of the tics
02:02:16.040 and behaviors of it of someone who was sexually abused as a child you know i've been told that
02:02:21.000 you know by people who are familiar with it so i'm not trying to say it's it's fun and games or
02:02:27.220 anything but i think that um in some ways that was spared some of the worst stuff partly because
02:02:34.060 all right number one my parents were not satanists they were good people so i was raised in a in a
02:02:41.340 in a kind of a decent well it's a christian home you know my parents were of opposite opposite
02:02:47.820 religious of protestant versus catholic there was a lot of arguing too that went on but but but
02:02:53.060 basically i was not raised by satanists which is true of a lot of the people who have been through
02:02:59.900 these experiments there my parents were unwitting and maybe blackmailed and and then and then they
02:03:06.240 regretted they sensed that something was wrong and they tried to rescue me and they get me out of
02:03:10.420 get me out when i was around 12 and something you know things were offered but things were
02:03:16.760 offered to me i was always kind of um uh what's the word um singled out at times for special uh
02:03:29.560 i i don't know like they would send me to un conferences to represent my school
02:03:34.200 or they made me the editor of the school paper and then i went to university and they put me in
02:03:38.200 this special creative writing program you know because and uh and very and then i became the
02:03:43.800 news editor of the the university paper and all these i had kind of a in some ways there's a
02:03:51.560 slightly a fairy tale element to my life then i started meeting people like leonard cohen and
02:03:56.440 he immediately pulls me into his life and adopts me almost you know and so uh they're they're
02:04:02.760 aspects that are that are a little bit like uh snow white uh yeah there's no way the seven
02:04:08.440 dwarfs you know i mean some kind of fairy tale um princess aspect to my life uh and then there's 0.98
02:04:16.440 a lot of loneliness a lot of isolation and a lot of that you know so uh and being weird
02:04:24.760 and borderline you know people some people thinking i'm completely nuts you know it's not
02:04:28.920 wanting anything to do with me different things have happened you know it's been a bumpy kind of
02:04:33.800 life i don't which i don't regret because i think i would have been bored by another type of life
02:04:38.280 So, you know, now the funny thing is I'm 73 at this point.
02:04:45.820 I mean, it's like getting up there.
02:04:48.080 In the last five years, I've started to have some connections with a whole other side of this program that I think was part of it and that was wiped from my memory.
02:04:59.900 And it had to do with the music business and it had to do with the Rolling Stones.
02:05:04.020 and i've met their manager you know their first manager and i've had a whole i'm in the process
02:05:09.620 of writing writing the whole story of that but um that's kind of fun in a way but i okay just to say
02:05:18.740 i believe that all of these bands all of the music of the 60s one way or another fell under
02:05:27.140 the umbrella of the uh of the mind control programming of the time including the beatles
02:05:33.460 the rolling stones you know the dave clark five over the whole the whole all of them donovan you
02:05:39.500 know all these people the british invasion for goodness sake they they say the british invasion
02:05:46.220 was completely manufactured
02:05:48.140 as a test as a mass test on the people of america can we get them because they'd already seen it
02:05:58.200 with elvis right el you know the king and so they thought can we do this again so they kill the
02:06:06.440 president and then a month and a half later the beatles arrive when the country is completely
02:06:12.980 and totally demoralized and then everything changes you got it it's true it's it's exactly
02:06:22.700 what happened that was exactly you know our how old are you oh you don't want to say no i'm i'm
02:06:29.440 yeah so you kind of missed you came in just as kennedy was assassinated no i was a couple years
02:06:37.840 a little bit later yeah you were what yeah i was yeah i was a couple years after yeah so i was kind
02:06:44.440 of the generation maybe most programmed in some ways because i just kind of you know i was was 12
02:06:49.320 when kennedy was assassinated you know that it's like 13 when the beatles came 14 when the rolling
02:06:56.160 stones came you know and so you you i don't know people lose their minds about the beatles and the
02:07:03.480 rolling stones and yeah did it did it surprise you that that people would just go crazy like
02:07:10.120 that because that's what it was like they were nuts today with taylor swift i mean look at
02:07:18.020 justin trudeau dancing at that show the other night he looked like an idiot
02:07:21.760 i i don't that's where his programming really came out again i don't know what
02:07:28.060 right i know it's very it's been a very strange week for breast justin trudeau
02:07:35.340 his programming no jordan peterson calls him peter pan and when you see that he's he's changing
02:07:44.880 he's exchanging friendship bracelets with with teenage girls he's partying with teenage girls
02:07:51.640 15 year olds understanding that he's got a daughter who's that age but if i had a daughter
02:07:57.320 who was that age and i had to go to a taylor swift show i don't think i'd be dancing so
02:08:01.860 enthusiastically with her and all of her friends so everybody could see and then i might go you
02:08:08.240 know once and then sit down and just try and struggle my way through the show but he was
02:08:12.780 right into it which seems strange for a 53 year old 53 is how he how old he is that's right um
02:08:20.680 he looked like he was out of his mind and i would guess he was in an altar you know he was in a
02:08:25.700 and a sub-personality of someone that age.
02:08:30.080 But, you know, that would be just my flippant, you know, theory, whatever.
02:08:34.700 But it looked like it to me that he was not in his own,
02:08:37.180 he was not the Justin, you know.
02:08:40.440 And I think that's typical.
02:08:42.180 I have, you know, having multiple personalities,
02:08:45.600 which I may have, by the way, but I'm not that,
02:08:49.320 as I say, I haven't seen a professional, you know, a therapist.
02:08:53.860 I've never seen a therapist, really.
02:08:55.700 I've just done my thing, but I probably do have altars.
02:09:01.020 I had an altar, I believe, that was flown to London at age 12, 1963 again in June.
02:09:08.100 And then I attended the, that I stayed with the Rolling Stones in London in 1963 for a short time, like maybe a weekend or less.
02:09:18.280 I was flown there and flown back.
02:09:20.340 You feel like you did or an altered personality?
02:09:24.020 well that's it i can't prove i i can't prove it but you know i met the manager
02:09:29.480 uh of the rolling stones and he gave a course at the at the university where i was teaching
02:09:35.940 at one point and it's a whole thing a whole thing has happened that has changed my but but um and
02:09:42.040 i've had a long-term relationship but i won't uh with mcjagger i mean in uh over the internet and
02:09:47.500 different things have happened which was arranged by other people um so there's a there's a whole
02:09:54.520 you know story another whole story there but but it seems as though in an as an altar like a 12
02:10:00.900 year old i was i was i think put in a crate loaded onto a plane flown to london removed from the
02:10:08.140 crate and then and then transported to um the the stones apartment well they weren't the stones
02:10:14.500 they were barely the stones at that point i mean nobody knew them they were just these guys and i
02:10:19.980 woke up in the apartment i had yeah we haven't even gotten into they weren't even known they
02:10:25.200 hadn't they didn't have a record out yet but that day they that was the weekend they launched their
02:10:29.580 first like 45 you know their first uh for the for the and that got onto the hit parade in england
02:10:35.100 and i i i have a very detailed memory of being there and i checked it came back to me only two
02:10:42.840 or three years ago just as a dream but you know and then i and then i just checked some of the
02:10:49.380 details in the dream like what the temperature was in london that day you know and i saw certain
02:10:55.040 details what was i what was i wearing where did we go what happened on that day and all of the
02:10:59.320 all of it lines up with you know like it happened to be very hot it was in london and uh it was 25
02:11:06.680 in my dream i said it was 25 degrees celsius and then i looked it up on the internet yeah for two
02:11:11.360 days that month there were two hot days in an otherwise cool and raining month and it was those
02:11:17.100 two days and it was 25 degrees and you know and so on and a whole series of things happened and
02:11:23.200 then i was flown back home and then and my memory was wiped to the whole experience i never i never
02:11:28.560 knew you should get those viewer guys to look at that one are they still around those remote
02:11:34.900 yeah well that would be like anyway i just report that it's like something that happened to me that
02:11:40.740 i think in an in an as an altar i was and i think also i was i was pretending to be older than i was
02:11:46.780 i was 12 but i was i think i was trying to pass myself off at 16 or 18 or something
02:11:51.620 and you know there was a whole lot of this you have this feeling that this happened
02:11:57.400 or is it it's more it's not it's more than a feeling it's a very um uh what's the word very
02:12:05.260 detailed recovered memory with with facts that are attached to the memory that you that you know when
02:12:13.100 you wake up and then you can go and you can actually check those facts like the temperature
02:12:18.300 the date of the first launch of the and it was that date and and what was i supposed to be doing
02:12:25.080 really those days i was supposed to be at a track and field meet with my grade six class
02:12:30.860 in you know in in montreal and uh i spoke with a friend who i went to i was in grade six with
02:12:38.500 and she i said do you remember that those track and field did days we would have every june
02:12:44.580 yeah she said and and i said do you remember 1963 and she had some she said yeah i know where we
02:12:50.240 went but i she said i have no memory i didn't she didn't come back with any ribbons or anything
02:12:55.400 from winning she used to win all these events at these things but she didn't have any she keeps
02:12:59.800 all the souvenirs of her you know of her school days and so on and she knows everything
02:13:05.080 yeah and so 1963 she said i and i said same for me i can remember 1962 i can remember 1964
02:13:11.360 but what did we do in 1963 she said we went up north to shawbridge boys farm i said yeah i
02:13:19.320 remember being told that we were getting on the going to go take a bus and go up to this place
02:13:23.880 up north where we had this track and field meet and um it's like i almost remember getting on the
02:13:30.960 bus but i don't remember anything after she said same for me i i don't have any memory at all of
02:13:35.620 it i remember things that happened at the other the year before the year after but nothing okay
02:13:39.920 shawbridge boys farm is an extension of the mk ultra mcgill it was a it was a it was a for
02:13:47.820 juvenile delinquents, and McGill psychiatrists who ran the MKUltra program were also running that
02:13:54.140 program. So it was an extension of MKUltra. So what I think happened, this is just to give you,
02:14:01.200 like it's a kind of, you know, what an example of how they might do it. They take a class,
02:14:08.460 kids on the school bus and bring them up north, and I don't know what they do, but one of them
02:14:12.900 at least gets sort of taken taken out of the group and put on a plane and flown to London and has a
02:14:19.620 whole experience in London and has flown back and then her memory and then they wipe her memory oh
02:14:25.520 and it was and I remember very clearly writing my Canadian history exam a few days later because I
02:14:31.240 do remember that June I remember things that happened it was quite a busy month and I remember
02:14:37.100 that once again the voice was in my head while I was writing my exam you're no good you will fail
02:14:42.520 you will never succeed at anything so i think it's quite likely that i was brought back to this
02:14:47.520 from this flight to london and i don't know child trafficking you know sexual whatever something
02:14:53.340 and then uh given met by the psychiatrists deep debriefed and reprogrammed
02:15:02.320 you know so i can put it together you said you had a was it an online relationship with jagger
02:15:12.520 something along those lines yeah well i was yeah i had a it was sort of arranged that i go and meet
02:15:21.660 him in the caribbean and i went kind of thinking oh well this will not gonna i i'm not gonna meet
02:15:28.140 him you know but i'll go i went to the island it was like someone was encouraging me strongly
02:15:33.080 encouraging me to go down there and sure enough he was there he was waiting for me you know he was
02:15:38.080 on the beach when i when i arrived you know waded in off the boat when when was that and
02:15:45.660 then a few things happened what no when was that when you when you met him was in 1992
02:15:53.180 it was yeah did he remember you from being a little kid like it was there something there
02:16:03.180 i think he did well he behaved like he you know i would say in retrospect he behaved like he knew
02:16:08.800 me uh and but he but he was very nervous about it it's a whole you know that's a whole like
02:16:13.880 something i couldn't i can't get into really but but no i think that the situation was i had no
02:16:19.340 memory of ever knowing him at that point i just thought i was seeing him for the first time i
02:16:23.640 didn't know what he was i kind of said what's he doing here you know like why is this working i
02:16:29.520 It shouldn't be working.
02:16:30.920 I mean, you know, but there he was.
02:16:33.120 And a whole series of sort of comedy of errors happened that day.
02:16:37.760 But I think the reason he came out to meet me was he knew who I was because he had known my family through the MK Alter program at McGill.
02:16:48.380 And he was a boy flown in from England that they were going to, you know, that they had selected for a special future.
02:16:54.740 and i think initially his future was the plan was he was going to go into politics and journalism
02:17:00.400 but then they just made him a rock star instead and couldn't get out of it i think he was
02:17:06.420 but anyway yeah i just have kind of an ongoing you know i've communicated with him over 30 years you
02:17:13.720 know that uh with a lot of uh it's been i've been very slowly slow to remember uh you know
02:17:22.380 to some of this stuff because when you're five years old say you know you don't they can very
02:17:28.020 easily make you forget everything that happens because you you don't remember even now like as
02:17:34.860 you say right just listening to you tell us these stories i go she doesn't remember that they did
02:17:42.080 that to her i would be furious and if i were you i would be oh yeah upset that they took these
02:17:51.140 memories for me what they did to me and i want to know your life they steal your life and they try
02:17:58.380 to steal your soul that's what they're doing i i bet you know you could get aneka on the
02:18:02.920 if we were talking she would confirm i think some of the you know the the mechanics of what i'm
02:18:08.700 trying to you know she said something a few things in the interview that said you know
02:18:12.180 it's a process she says it's a complex process of recovering the memories of
02:18:16.600 processing of of you know some of it comes as flashbacks some of it comes as a pure you know
02:18:22.540 reliving yeah but for me only occasionally and i was warned not to do it because it might be too
02:18:29.900 traumatic yeah well you said that but if you had the opportunity to go back and get all of your
02:18:39.480 memories restored without any kind of turmoil would you do it sure
02:18:47.440 yeah somebody give me the transcript i'm talking about all of them now i'm not talking about just
02:18:53.200 the good ones you know i'm talking about all of it because yeah they did to you and
02:18:59.300 i'm sure i think i'm pretty bad i think i am just scratching the surface of it but you know
02:19:08.580 like if they give me the transcript I would read it it's like sometimes I
02:19:13.580 can't stand to watch a YouTube video because I just cannot cope with the
02:19:18.340 personalities or the some of the emotions you know that I but I will read
02:19:23.400 that willingly read the transcript you know skim it and you can distance
02:19:27.960 yourself from a text and that's why writing is a very strong is a powerful
02:19:33.240 tool because of the distancing you know there's possible objectivity we gotta go it's it's two
02:19:41.740 and a half hours it's oh my god it's late but i'd love to have you back you're you're going on a
02:19:47.920 trip in a couple of weeks maybe you can come back on in the new year we can talk more about this i'd
02:19:52.040 love to have you back or whatever i'll be in greece but i could see you in the springtime or
02:19:56.120 you know but whatever no it's fun and i i don't know thank you very much
02:19:59.720 ah right i mean how far what's the time difference we could record something and we could talk more
02:20:07.240 about the rolling stone thing and i'm sure there's so many other stories that you have to tell that
02:20:11.800 we didn't get to yet i don't know i think i kind of covered a lot of it but for now you know i'm
02:20:17.600 out of gas now i'm out of gas you're very patient all right you go to bed you have a great trip
02:20:25.740 Have a Merry Christmas, and we'll talk to you again.
02:20:28.980 Thank you so much for coming on.
02:20:30.500 Happy to be wrong.
02:20:31.760 And thank you for inviting me.
02:20:33.360 This has been so much fun.
02:20:35.580 Absolutely.
02:20:35.980 You're a very patient man.
02:20:37.840 All right, now I'll tell everybody about your show.
02:20:40.720 Anyway, be well.
02:20:42.520 Talk to you later.
02:20:43.340 Thank you, too.
02:20:44.060 Bye now.
02:20:45.200 Anne Diamond, she is a MKUltra survivor,
02:20:51.960 and she doesn't have a lot of her memories you guys he seems happy she seems focused she writes
02:21:00.520 books she writes books well i'm not going to say she's focused completely but when she starts to
02:21:09.060 tell a story and and you may have noticed too that there was a delay between her and i she her her
02:21:16.040 wi-fi wasn't working too great and i think we had to wait for a second or two before she
02:21:21.900 heard what i said and i'd jump in on top of her because i was so frustrated and angry not with her
02:21:26.980 but with the stories that she was telling and the the torture that these people had to endure
02:21:34.960 as children
02:21:38.360 so this is a book that's based upon and story she wrote this in 2003 it's called my cold war
02:21:48.500 there are other books on her website if you want to go check them out a lot of them are fiction
02:21:54.080 some of them have to do with her experiences as an mk ultra victim and diamond.ca go check out
02:22:03.880 the website at the very least uh what a nice lady once again tonight you guys we've gone way over
02:22:10.760 time i understand that some of the platforms that are streaming the show tonight are buffering
02:22:15.180 because we've been on so long don't worry it will eventually take care of itself and you'll be able
02:22:24.100 to watch the whole thing going forward some of you are having that issue others are not
02:22:28.740 don't forget tomorrow night on the show randy hillier the one and only randy hillier former
02:22:38.300 Ontario conservative MPP and then former independent MPP all of his charges were dismissed a couple
02:22:45.940 of weeks ago it's going to be a pleasure to have him on knowledgeable entertaining folksy Randy
02:22:52.180 Hillier joins the show tomorrow night Friday night there will be no show I'm giving myself a little
02:22:57.920 bit of a long weekend I love you all I appreciate you all don't forget go become a member and all
02:23:03.580 access member at shadow davis.com i'm going to do something special for you guys uh for you all
02:23:08.920 access members this weekend on the website shadow davis.com s-h-a-d-o-e-d-a-v-i-s.com
02:23:16.260 don't forget even if you don't watch any of the extra content on the website
02:23:20.160 you are supporting the show for like 12 bucks a month and you know what you don't have to get it
02:23:27.520 for the entire year you can get it for like one month at a time and if you don't like it then
02:23:30.940 you can cancel. No harm, no foul. I will have no hard feelings. I love you all. I appreciate you
02:23:38.380 all. And I will catch you again tomorrow night, eight o'clock central. Bye for now.