The Shadoe Davis Show - Shadoe at Nite Special Edition Tues. Nov 1st⧸2022

00:00:00.000 I do.

00:00:30.000 you thank you good morning mr barber morning my name is john mather i am commission council

00:00:45.520 before i begin my questions i believe your council wants to make a statement

00:00:49.760 good morning sir for the record brendan miller council for freedom corp

00:00:53.120 as i believe you already know we've made invocations under all evidence act provisions

00:01:00.000 both federally and provincially, as well as Section 13 of the Charter.

00:01:04.220 That's been done in writing.

00:01:05.520 I'm wondering if I have to do that each and every time the witness testifies

00:01:08.560 or if the Commission has accepted the written invocation I've already provided, sir.

00:01:13.900 I think we can deem that the witness has objected to answers each and every question

00:01:19.980 and that on the grounds of the answers may tend to incriminate them

00:01:26.420 or may tend to establish liability in a civil proceeding.

00:01:29.980 So I think that's taken as a given and has been filed in the...

00:01:34.860 Thank you very much, sir. That's all. That's my statement.

00:01:37.600 Okay.

00:01:40.360 So good morning again, Mr. Barber.

00:01:42.260 Just so you're aware of the process today,

00:01:44.500 I'm going to ask you questions for approximately the next 90 minutes.

00:01:47.640 When I'm complete, the parties who have requested time

00:01:50.800 will have time to ask you some questions themselves,

00:01:54.680 again for depending on how things go roughly 90 minutes and uh we will have a final opportunity

00:02:00.080 to ask you some follow-up questions if that proves necessary okay um i want to start with some basic

00:02:06.780 information about yourself so i understand that you're from swift current saskatchewan is that

00:02:10.540 correct i am correct how long have you lived in swift current my life 47 years and i also

00:02:15.840 understand that you operate a trucking business called cb trucking limited do i have that correct

00:02:20.000 that is correct okay and can you just briefly describe the nature of that business a long haul

00:02:24.260 short haul we haul agriculture equipment across the prairies and into the united states and what's

00:02:30.100 your role with the business i'm the business owner and a driver and how many other drivers do you

00:02:35.740 have i employ my son and a couple of the lease operators contract employees how long have you

00:02:42.720 been in the trucking business since i was 18 so just 28 years roughly and were you operating cb

00:02:50.660 trucking in january 2022 i was yes as the commission understands that mr barber you were

00:02:58.340 one of the original organ organizers of the freedom convoy that arrived in ottawa in january

00:03:03.060 2022 i take it you agree with that and you just have to make sure you speak audibly when you give

00:03:09.220 your answer just for the transcript thank you how did you get involved in the convoy i was contacted

00:03:16.260 by Bridget Belton, another social media follower via the app TikTok.

00:03:22.860 Communication started from there, speaking about possibly slow rolls

00:03:28.200 to protest the mandates for the border crossing coming into effect January 15th

00:03:33.920 for cross-border travel for commercial vehicles.

00:03:36.540 Do you recall when Ms. Belton first contacted you?

00:03:39.380 I believe it was the beginning of January sometime.

00:03:41.240 Time dates might be fuzzy, January 8th, January 7th, somewhere in there.

00:03:47.020 And did you know Ms. Belton before she did?

00:03:49.020 I did not, no.

00:03:50.080 What did you come to know about Ms. Belton? 1.00

00:03:52.100 She's just another trucker, a cross-border driver that was facing her job to be lost on the 15th of January unless she complied with the mandates. 0.99

00:04:01.380 And what did Ms. Belton, what was she asking you to do? 1.00

00:04:04.640 get involved to start something to try and speak out against the government going too far in some 1.00

00:04:13.180 of these mandates. And when you say government going too far in some of these mandates, can you

00:04:17.040 explain at that point in time what mandates were concerning you? The cross-border travel,

00:04:22.720 specifically. And you're talking about the decision of the federal government to no longer

00:04:27.760 exempt truckers from the requirement that they be vaccinated, otherwise they would have to

00:04:32.380 quarantine? Yes, sir. You mentioned that Ms. Belton communicated with you on TikTok. Did I

00:04:42.160 hear that correctly? Yes. Perhaps for the benefit of the commission and maybe people who don't who

00:04:47.560 aren't as familiar with social media, can you explain what TikTok is? TikTok is an app, a social

00:04:53.060 media app, short videos under three minutes. My daughter got me into it about three, four years

00:05:00.740 ago, approximately. I surpassed her in followers right away, so that made her quite anxious.

00:05:09.760 And prior to getting involved in TikTok, were you using any other social media?

00:05:13.300 Yeah, I was on Facebook.

00:05:16.160 And you noted that you attracted a lot of followers in January 2022. Do you know how

00:05:22.060 many followers you had on TikTok? Prior to the convoy?

00:05:25.540 Yes. I would have guessed, roughly guessed around 30,000 maybe.

00:05:30.000 30,000 and uh you know in in by the time you know in in mid-february 2022 which we'll get to but

00:05:38.360 how did your followers grow at that point in time quite significantly uh we're up i i don't know

00:05:44.540 the numbers over 170,000 somewhere in there so again prior to miss belton contacting you can you

00:05:54.360 give us a sense of the sort of content you were posting on tiktok a lot of trucking videos hauling

00:05:59.900 videos just i'm a generally a smart guy on on social media a lot of humor were you posting at

00:06:06.920 all about uh covet 19 and public health uh measures yes how would you describe the nature

00:06:13.120 of those posts uh angry very angry why were you angry the mandates the provincial mandates

00:06:22.820 the federal mandates they just keep tossing more on it seemed like it was it was just an overreach

00:06:29.080 or they went too far on a regular basis, and it was very frustrating.

00:06:37.100 How did the COVID-19 public health mandates affect you personally?

00:06:42.880 We lost a lot of drivers.

00:06:46.040 What freight I can't handle myself for my company,

00:06:48.840 I share with other fellow drivers and other company owners.

00:06:53.060 We lost, the government likes to say, 10% of cross-border drivers.

00:06:56.780 I didn't see that.

00:06:58.120 of icing at more 35 to 40 percent we lost a lot of drivers like a tremendous amount of drivers

00:07:04.140 where freight was backed up both sides of the border and caused some significant trouble when

00:07:10.360 you say you lost a lot of drivers what about and i understand when we're talking about public health

00:07:15.620 restrictions we're talking at various levels of government but what what about those restrictions

00:07:20.200 led to you losing drivers the the lack of the drivers getting the vaccination to be able to

00:07:26.120 cross the border as of the 15th and when you say as of the 15th you mean as of the 15th of january

00:07:32.720 2022 yes sir okay and so what i understand you to be saying is that the government's decision

00:07:38.660 to uh no longer exempt truckers from vaccination uh from vaccination requirements that was your

00:07:46.440 concern projecting forward correct is that fair yes had you lost drivers prior to that in relation

00:07:51.760 to COVID-19 no is there any other ways that the that again doesn't matter the level of government

00:08:00.100 for the purpose of the question is any other way that the public health restrictions relating to

00:08:04.600 COVID-19 affected you personally personally uh when the when the COVID vaccine passport came in

00:08:10.880 made things a little tricky we're not allowed to enter restaurants anymore

00:08:15.120 it was I trucked throughout the whole pandemic I never stopped I was I was I was eating in my

00:08:24.900 truck I had a coffee pot a coffee maker in my truck the restaurants were closed gas stations

00:08:29.440 were closed bathrooms were closed it was really tricky I remember about two weeks into the

00:08:35.140 pandemic thinking this isn't worth it and going home and then the customer demands kept climbing

00:08:41.080 so I ended up, I stayed.

00:08:44.400 Did you yourself get vaccinated?

00:08:46.160 Yes, sir.

00:08:46.880 Why did you make that decision?

00:08:48.720 I've spent the better part of 16 years running my company,

00:08:51.680 keeping the big carriers away from my customer base,

00:08:53.860 and I was at risk of losing all that hard work

00:08:56.620 to not being able to cross the border anymore.

00:08:59.780 When you say big carriers, it's my understanding

00:09:01.880 that you, CB Trucking Limited,

00:09:03.440 is an independent trucking company.

00:09:04.980 Is that correct?

00:09:05.540 It's a small company, yes.

00:09:06.940 Can you explain to the commission

00:09:08.520 what it means to be an independent trucker

00:09:10.340 as opposed to a big carrier uh yeah uh independent carriers three trucks on my fleet it's it's a lot

00:09:18.020 harder to run a smaller company like that compared to the big companies most of my competition is up

00:09:23.700 around the 250 to 200 trucks so uh you indicated in your earlier response that your tick tock

00:09:39.700 following grew as you participated in the freedom convoy in terms of discussing the freedom convoy

00:09:46.260 and planning the freedom convoy did you use any other social media other than tick tock

00:09:50.180 I did Facebook, yes.

00:09:51.840 Any other social media?

00:09:54.060 Snapchat.

00:09:55.540 Anything else?

00:09:56.380 A little bit on Instagram, I'd say, but not much.

00:09:59.880 And the Commission has seen in some of the documents relating to you

00:10:03.580 that at times you would refer to yourself as an Internet troll.

00:10:07.300 Is that accurate?

00:10:08.940 Unfortunately, yes.

00:10:09.940 And can you explain to the Commission what it means to be an Internet troll?

00:10:13.240 A troublemaker, online troublemaker.

00:10:15.340 And can you maybe give an example of what that means, you know, when it comes to TikTok, for instance?

00:10:22.820 Well, on TikTok, I deal with trolls on a regular basis.

00:10:25.380 They constantly attack me.

00:10:27.020 Usually they're faceless.

00:10:29.260 Some of them, you can see their profiles.

00:10:31.960 I engage with them like I always have.

00:10:35.920 I fight back and forth with them on a regular basis, and I've done that for many years.

00:10:39.640 when miss belton reached out to you and began discussing the possibility of a convoy or a slow

00:10:46.180 roll um i take it that was something you were interested in participating in yes sir and why

00:10:51.140 was that to speak my part to do my part to protest to try and get the government to start listening

00:10:57.820 to us and picking up on that last part what at the outset what were you hoping to achieve by

00:11:03.900 participating in the convoy i primarily wanted the government to listen to our concerns

00:11:09.480 anything else no sir were you politically active before COVID-19 I was not were you an active

00:11:19.880 member of any political party no sir

00:11:21.940 where is he going with this one final question about TikTok we've seen information that suggested

00:11:33.640 that in January 2022 you had multiple TikTok accounts is that is that accurate yes why did

00:11:39.040 you have more than one TikTok account? The internet troll that I would like to be would

00:11:42.680 constantly become banned for posting inappropriate things or things that went against community

00:11:48.540 standards. So your punishment for that would be seven days, three to seven days off the device

00:11:56.240 so you would log into another account. So when you were suspended, you would then open another

00:12:02.380 account so you could continue posting. Did you find it hard to gain the followers you had when

00:12:09.300 you started with a new account? No, no. I've always ran a couple different accounts. Right now

00:12:15.580 I think I post on three different accounts. So Ms. Belton contacts you and you said you recall

00:12:24.260 was perhaps early in January 2022 and begins asking you about slow rolls and potentially a

00:12:30.460 convoy what happened next discussion started we then moved forward with planning other people

00:12:39.620 other members other other teams became involved really fast we realized that there was there was

00:12:44.160 a lot of support behind us the more we we got into the logistics of it all who were involved

00:12:50.440 in the early discussions early discussions bridget belton and i a male called dave steenberg

00:12:56.620 And with that, Bridget introduced me to people like James Belter with Canada Unity,

00:13:01.100 Patrick King, online social media guy.

00:13:05.140 And we'll have some questions about them in a moment.

00:13:07.980 But I think what would be beneficial to the Commission is to understand how,

00:13:13.100 you know, to the extent you can explain it,

00:13:14.940 how you go from Ms. Belton contacting you, raising this idea,

00:13:19.520 and then getting to the point where you're organizing what becomes a large event.

00:13:24.220 Can you explain sort of how that progressed?

00:13:26.860 It was completely organic.

00:13:28.640 Everything just literally fell right into place.

00:13:31.740 It was, I believe it was about two weeks from the time we started talking about it

00:13:37.060 to the time we actually left.

00:13:39.680 It was extremely fast.

00:13:42.540 Who was organized in planning the convoy?

00:13:45.340 All of us.

00:13:46.180 There wasn't one necessarily a leader.

00:13:48.480 It was a group of organizers, per se.

00:13:51.120 we had people in every province that stepped up we had uh helpers in every province it was all

00:13:57.680 everyone just came together was there people who were more involved in planning than others

00:14:02.820 yes sir and who was that well myself tamara leach um bridget belton

00:14:09.320 james belter and patrick king this guy is trying to pin it on a few people as opposed to a full

00:14:17.000 organic movement in those two weeks how was the convoy promoted uh via social media for the most

00:14:24.040 part can you provide some more information yep uh tamara leach and i were in contact i believe

00:14:30.480 the middle of january specific date maybe around the 13th maybe the 10th uh tamara started a

00:14:37.780 facebook page and a twitter account for freedom convoy 2022 and uh the word started to spread

00:14:44.440 from there. We kept up on our TikTok videos. We all did Facebook Lives. We all promoted

00:14:50.100 it via our independent social media apps. And we understand that Ms. Leach started the

00:14:55.280 Facebook page, as you indicated, in or around January 13th. Prior to that, what promotion

00:14:59.480 had been done about the conference? Very little. Very little. Had any promotion been

00:15:02.820 done? Just little things on social media, just

00:15:05.060 getting the word out and finding out who was willing to help and who was coming to the plate.

00:15:14.440 um it's commission's understanding that you participated in a facebook live event on january

00:15:19.380 13th 2022 do you know what i'm referring to correct yes and uh on in that facebook live event

00:15:25.740 um in attendance were uh yourself james bowder who you've referenced miss belton who we've spoken

00:15:31.960 about in pat king does that accord with your recollection yes sir and there was other

00:15:35.440 individuals there who were assisting in planning is that fair i believe so yes and i understand

00:15:39.480 that that video uh took place prior to mrs ms leach's involvement is that correct i believe

00:15:46.200 ms leach was involved at that point i believe that she was busy that night and could not attend that

00:15:51.320 if my memory serves me right um and have you reviewed that video prior to your testimony

00:16:00.200 i have yes okay um and it's a approximately an hour and a half long and subject to any comments

00:16:06.920 from the parties what i suggest to do is just read out the document id and have it entered without

00:16:11.240 showing the video itself because i would run out of time if that happened so it is com

00:16:18.600 five zeros eight two nine

00:16:23.000 and the commission has also asked a transcriptionist to prepare a transcription of that video

00:16:27.640 which i may ask you about later but again i'm just going to read out the document id right now which

00:16:31.960 which is COM 50's 838.

00:16:43.520 So Mr. Barber, I can take you to portions of the transcript if it will assist, but in

00:16:48.880 reviewing the video, it strikes the commission that at that point in time, both Mr. Bowder

00:16:55.240 and Mr. King were active, were already actively involved in planning routes and promoting

00:17:01.060 convoy to the people that they were already connected with is that a fair statement correct

00:17:06.260 and do you know how mr bowder and mr king were promoting the convoy can i add i can add that

00:17:12.340 canadian union become became involved and canada unity was actually planning i learned later they

00:17:18.660 were planning some sort of a route across canada to ottawa for a protest they had the stops and

00:17:24.900 everything already planned they had a website ready they had everything was all in place to

00:17:29.780 my recollection. So yes, the commission's understanding is that Mr. Bowder had a website

00:17:35.700 through Canada Unity and on that website there was already route maps and stops and locations.

00:17:41.780 Is that your understanding? Yes, correct. And Mr. Bowder is expected to testify and we can ask him

00:17:46.020 more questions about that. So I just want to clarify what you said there was, is it your

00:17:50.660 recollection that that planning was already in place by the time you were connected with Mr.

00:17:54.680 Bowder? I believe so, yes. And do you know how Mr. Bowder got connected to you and Ms. Belton?

00:17:59.160 i believe through bridget belton um in the video from january 13th 2022 which i've already

00:18:09.260 referenced um mr bowder presented a document that he referred to as a memorandum of understanding

00:18:15.500 do you recall that yes um were you aware of the memorandum of understanding before january 13th

00:18:21.760 2022 no sorry and just for the sake of the transcriptions just if you could wait till

00:18:26.480 i'm finished my question before i answer just cleaner transcript so were you aware of that

00:18:30.040 memorandum no i was not okay um what do you recall mr bowder saying about the memorandum of

00:18:35.480 understanding i reviewed the the video just a couple days ago and i remember it again uh he

00:18:42.720 just i believe he just explained how the document worked and that it had already been sent to the

00:18:48.780 government governor general and to the government i believe do you recall if at that time and when

00:18:54.780 say at that time i mean january 13th if you had a rec if you had an understanding then what mr

00:19:00.220 bowder was uh hoping to do with his memorandum of understanding i i believe i just i ignored it i

00:19:05.740 don't know i wasn't into that that sort of thing and again we're we expect to hear from mr bowder

00:19:11.340 and we'll we'll hear his evidence on it um the commission understands that one of the things

00:19:16.220 that the memorandum of understanding presented was a notion that uh in respect of the cova 19

00:19:22.700 mandates that Mr. Bowder believed that there was not enough time for lawsuits to challenge those

00:19:28.840 mandates, and that in fact through a piece of law called the Helsinki Act that a group of a

00:19:38.500 citizen's committee could come to an agreement with the Senate and any mandates they viewed as

00:19:43.160 unlawful would stop. Is that your understanding of ultimately what the memorandum of understanding

00:19:48.040 meant? Not to my knowledge. To this day, I still have yet to read the memorandum and

00:19:52.520 understanding. I have no clue what's in the document and I will never read it. In January

00:19:57.940 2022, did you have any understanding of what Mr. Bowder's goals were with the convoy that

00:20:02.460 he had organized? No, I did not. Like I said before, it was a matter of a whole bunch of

00:20:09.800 different groups coming together at the perfect timing and having an input into the planning

00:20:15.600 of it and everyone had their peace and we were so unorganized for the most part we we used whatever

00:20:21.640 we could whatever means whatever tools we could find in the early planning stage what was bridget

00:20:31.860 belton doing same as myself uh she was posting tiktok videos and promoting through her facebook

00:20:39.460 and mr king who was on the january 13th live stream what was he doing i believe the same

00:20:45.860 thing patrick had a quite large following on social media especially facebook so he promoted

00:20:51.340 and did videos on his platform and prior to january 2022 did you know who pat king was i did

00:20:58.060 not know and how were you first introduced to him via the zoom call on the 13th i believe

00:21:06.360 And maybe I'll ask this at this point.

00:21:07.860 Prior to the January 13th Facebook live stream,

00:21:11.100 had you participated in any calls or meetings with Mr. Bowder or Mr. King?

00:21:15.460 I don't believe so.

00:21:16.780 There might have been one in there earlier.

00:21:18.880 I don't recall one personally.

00:21:21.260 Do you recall how you were introduced to Mr. King?

00:21:24.560 I don't, sorry.

00:21:26.040 When you first came to understand that Mr. King was promoting the convoy,

00:21:31.420 what did you come to learn about him?

00:21:33.180 Just another helping hand, another person with a large following that would help.

00:21:39.520 Did you come to learn anything about his background prior to January 2022?

00:21:44.600 Not until, no. Not until probably two days into the convoy itself.

00:21:53.140 When you were meeting Mr. King and Mr. Bowder and Ms. Belton,

00:21:57.720 did you ask any of them about their backgrounds and why they were participating in the convoy?

00:22:04.860 I believe so, yes.

00:22:07.280 I understand Patrick King had children that were unvaccinated.

00:22:11.160 I believe Bridget was the fact that she was going to lose her job on the 15th of January.

00:22:18.940 At that point in time, did you have any questions yourself about

00:22:26.340 who am I organizing with and who are these people who are going to assist me in this?

00:22:33.400 I think I was just so excited and so overwhelmed right from day one.

00:22:37.720 I don't think I really had time.

00:22:44.280 It was a very busy time.

00:22:56.340 The Commission understands that many people stated goal in terms of the convoy was to end COVID-19 mandates. Is that fair?

00:23:07.900 Correct.

00:23:09.140 Were you aware of anyone who participated in the early organization who had a different goal than that?

00:23:15.280 No, sir.

00:23:15.620 as the convoy began traveling to ottawa and then after arrived in ottawa do you believe there were

00:23:26.600 people who participated who wanted something more than to end coven 19 mandates yes and can you

00:23:32.560 describe why you the basis of that belief uh there is there was different organizations that came and

00:23:39.000 went. For the most part, we stayed as a close group, Tamara and myself and Bridget. The

00:23:46.480 core group of actual truckers stayed together. Organizations kind of came in, tried to set

00:23:53.180 camp up, and we either found a way to keep it under control or keep in the... It was

00:24:00.740 a power struggle a lot of the time.

00:24:03.060 Can you provide some more details about that power struggle? What organizations, what they

00:24:07.780 were trying to do and what you did in response well we had a little bit of conflict between

00:24:11.820 candidate unity that was one um not necessarily conflict but taking back our freedoms was involved

00:24:18.300 there um no conflict but the the war vets joined us uh they were they were beside us the entire

00:24:25.880 time we had retired police officers opp

00:24:30.580 So Canada Unity, that's Mr. Bowder's organization, is that right?

00:24:37.780 Correct.

00:24:38.340 Can you explain to me what the conflict was with Canada Unity?

00:24:42.320 Power and control. Simple.

00:24:45.120 What was Canada Unity doing that you didn't agree with?

00:24:51.260 I didn't like the MOU, I believe, even though I still have yet to read it.

00:24:55.440 so at some point i take it you came to understand what canada unity was trying to

00:25:03.120 achieve with the mou is that fair i still believe that they were after the same things we were i

00:25:08.480 i believe it maybe was more mass mandates more covet restrictions in general so you indicated

00:25:15.360 that the conflict with canada unity was about the mou and i'm just trying to understand what about

00:25:20.080 the mou had gave rise to conflict uh yeah improperly written mou according to the people

00:25:27.440 i spoke to about it it wasn't something on our agenda it wasn't something we were pushing for

00:25:33.680 it had nothing to do with the reason why we actually came to ottawa who did you speak to

00:25:38.640 about the mou miss leach okay and what did she tell you about the mou we had the same opinion

00:25:43.760 but i what did she tell you about what was in the mou i can't speak for what tamara said i'm not

00:25:49.680 sure if she's read it or not did you did you have any concerns that the mou uh advocated or provided

00:25:57.440 for um uh uh an undemocratic uh change of power in canada i i heard rumors about it being that

00:26:08.880 way i heard rumors on both sides that it it it could be interpreted that way and then it couldn't

00:26:15.280 be interpreted that way it was kind of a mixed did you take any steps to figure out what exactly

00:26:22.240 mr bowder was trying to achieve with the mou not necessarily we uh we i remember calling on mr

00:26:28.080 bowder and having him renounce the mou partial the way through the convoy do you recall roughly when

00:26:35.840 that occurred i do not and what led you to ultimately make a phone call to mr bowder and

00:26:42.160 and ask him to renounce it?

00:26:43.500 I believe it was Tamara that made the call.

00:26:46.500 Just too much, there was too much highlight in it.

00:26:49.480 There was too much spotlight in this document

00:26:51.620 that we didn't have anything to do with.

00:26:55.300 And when you say too much highlight and too much spotlight,

00:26:58.560 are you talking about, I think you'd characterize as the rumours

00:27:01.100 that it called for something undemocratic?

00:27:03.060 Correct.

00:27:07.800 What happened after, to your understanding,

00:27:10.020 Ms. Leach called Mr. Bowder and asked him to rescind it?

00:27:12.960 I believe it was rescind.

00:27:14.200 I believe they removed it.

00:27:16.300 Did you continue working with Mr. Bowder throughout the convoy?

00:27:20.040 James was around.

00:27:21.820 Not necessarily worked with him.

00:27:23.980 He was around.

00:27:24.920 We've seen each other from time to time.

00:27:28.680 Another group you mentioned in terms of there being,

00:27:31.540 and maybe this is one of your words, but I understand it,

00:27:33.280 a power struggle, is that fair, among groups?

00:27:35.980 Yeah.

00:27:36.560 Yeah.

00:27:36.720 Another group you mentioned was Taking Back Our Freedoms.

00:27:41.060 Yes.

00:27:41.600 Who was Taking Back Our Freedoms?

00:27:43.440 I don't know names.

00:27:44.840 I know Roy and James were the ones that came out.

00:27:48.020 They tried to help us out, create structure inside the meetings and the day-to-day planning.

00:27:56.180 Do you know what Taking Back Our Freedoms goals were with respect to the convoy?

00:27:59.640 To this day, I do not.

00:28:00.760 I believe mandate freedom.

00:28:03.060 Government gone too far.

00:28:05.040 And I think you described there was a level of friction with them.

00:28:08.160 Is that fair?

00:28:08.900 From times, yeah, there was, yes.

00:28:11.040 And did you take any steps when you had this group

00:28:14.420 that there was some friction or conflict with?

00:28:16.260 Did you take any steps to figure out what their goals

00:28:18.140 or what they were trying to do?

00:28:19.560 I believe so, yes.

00:28:20.880 And what did you do?

00:28:21.900 I wasn't personally part of those.

00:28:23.900 I found my role outside walking the streets a lot,

00:28:28.140 so the inner meetings I tended to skip out on quite a bit.

00:28:34.300 And we've spoken already a little bit about Ms. Leach, who I, as I understand it, your recollection is that she was likely involved around the time of the January 13th live stream.

00:28:47.240 She just did not participate. Did I have that correctly?

00:28:49.100 I believe so.

00:28:49.960 How did Ms. Leach become involved in the Freedom Convoy?

00:28:52.920 Ms. Leach called me on my cell phone, I believe, like I said, somewhere before the 10th of January,

00:28:58.800 and told me she had a little bit of experience in the Department of Protesting and Convoy.

00:29:04.700 She was part of the 2019 United Way Roll Tour.

00:29:09.000 We needed help, and I acknowledged that.

00:29:13.080 It was just a phone call out of the blue.

00:29:14.860 Tamara got my phone number and the friendship, and continued.

00:29:20.780 Did you ever find out how Ms. Leach got your phone number?

00:29:24.880 She said the name before.

00:29:26.120 I don't remember what the name was.

00:29:27.400 A friend of a friend had my contact.

00:29:32.040 And you mentioned that Ms. Leach had participated in the 2019 United We Roll Convoy.

00:29:37.420 Correct.

00:29:37.940 When Ms. Leach phoned you, did you know what that was?

00:29:40.740 Yes, I did.

00:29:41.300 Okay, and could you explain to the commission what the 2019 United We Roll Convoy was?

00:29:46.140 Oil and gas.

00:29:47.080 I believe they came from Alberta to Ottawa.

00:29:51.380 Protesting pipeline shutdowns or pipeline building, one of the two.

00:29:57.140 And Ms. Leach, was your understanding, was involved in that convoy?

00:30:00.300 She was involved with some of the...

00:30:02.260 And did you understand that Mr. King was also involved in that convoy?

00:30:05.380 Yes, afterwards.

00:30:06.840 What about Mr. Bowder?

00:30:08.460 I don't know about James.

00:30:14.080 When Ms. Leach called you, had you heard of Tamara Leach before?

00:30:18.860 No, I had not.

00:30:20.400 And what did you come to know about Ms. Leach? 0.93

00:30:22.960 She's a mother. 0.98

00:30:24.560 She's a grandmother.

00:30:26.340 She's a regular Albertan, good-hearted, strong person.

00:30:36.320 Did you become aware in your early conversations with Ms. Leach

00:30:40.000 that she had been participated in the Wexit movement in Alberta

00:30:43.780 and been involved in the Maverick?

00:30:45.740 Oh, come on.

00:30:46.320 I was told about that in route to Ottawa.

00:30:51.300 And is it Ms. Leach who told you that, or did someone else tell you?

00:30:53.940 Yes, it was Ms. Leach, yes.

00:30:56.200 Did you have any concerns that in participating in the convoys,

00:31:01.120 Ms. Leach would be pursuing goals other than mass mandates

00:31:04.780 and maybe pursuing political goals in either the Wexit movement 1.00

00:31:08.180 or the Maverick Party?

00:31:09.800 That was not my... No, I didn't feel that at all.

00:31:13.600 Is that something you discussed with Ms. Leach?

00:31:15.520 I don't know if I've discussed it, but it wasn't really an issue.

00:31:18.680 We never discussed anything in detail.

00:31:21.200 It was noted that she was part of that in the past.

00:31:24.640 I believe she wasn't.

00:31:26.560 I don't think she was, or she is now, but she was.

00:31:30.160 And it was never an issue after that.

00:31:33.460 We expect that there may be evidence that, you know,

00:31:37.500 whether it be Ms. Leach or other people who became involved in the convoy organization,

00:31:41.560 that there was an attempt to use the convoy as an opportunity

00:31:46.980 to pursue political goals that weren't just about ending the COVID-19 mandates,

00:31:51.860 including political goals that may exist within the Maverick Party

00:31:55.680 or within the WEGZIT movement.

00:31:58.480 Is that a concern that you have now, looking back?

00:32:02.560 No.

00:32:02.980 It was never brought to my attention that they were a player in this situation,

00:32:07.000 and that wasn't the reason why we came to Ottawa.

00:32:10.980 I would have fought that.

00:32:12.420 And why would you have fought that?

00:32:13.900 That wasn't the reason why we came to Ottawa.

00:32:16.020 We came to Ottawa for border mandates.

00:32:23.020 Now I'm going to ask you some questions about the process of having trucks begin in British Columbia

00:32:30.100 and drive across Canada and then arrive in Ottawa.

00:32:32.580 First question, do you have a sense of how many trucks participated in the convoy that you had organized with Mr. Bowder, Mr. King, Ms. Belton, and Ms. Leach?

00:32:43.860 The tricky part was trying to get a solid number.

00:32:46.820 There would be a certain amount of trucks, cars, buses, campers that would come into the convoy for a short period of time,

00:32:53.560 let's say from Regina to Winnipeg, just to take part in it, and it would exit off.

00:32:57.860 And at that same time, more people would come in from Winnipeg to go to Kenora.

00:33:01.520 I know for a fact some people left with their children in a semi from Saskatchewan

00:33:06.520 planning on going to Regina and went home three weeks later.

00:33:10.820 It ranged anywhere from 500 to 2,500 vehicles is what I was told.

00:33:16.320 Looking in the mirrors, it was incredible to see the lights behind you

00:33:20.740 and the long lines and watching the videos.

00:33:23.280 It was approximately 25 kilometres long at some times.

00:33:27.460 Did you ever expect that level of participation?

00:33:29.660 No, not in my wildest dreams.

00:33:32.000 What was your reaction when you saw the level of participation?

00:33:35.460 Well, there was a lot of tears.

00:33:37.680 Can you expand on that?

00:33:39.400 Emotions.

00:33:40.760 The things that we've seen out the windshield of the truck as we crossed the prairies and into Ontario,

00:33:46.500 overwhelming support, people standing on the side of the highways, people lining overpasses.

00:33:51.440 We were often late by around two hours.

00:33:55.000 We were never really on schedule.

00:33:56.300 and people stood in frigid temperatures minus 20 to minus 30

00:34:00.500 just to get a chance to see us come through.

00:34:05.300 Could you explain to the commission

00:34:07.100 how the convoy organization was able to coordinate

00:34:12.040 that movement of trucks to come to Ottawa?

00:34:14.880 How did people know where they were supposed to be,

00:34:17.540 where the convoy was,

00:34:18.780 what was going to happen to them when they joined the convoy?

00:34:21.460 We had code of ethics.

00:34:22.920 We had rules to follow.

00:34:24.020 We had speeds to endure. We had constant communication on either VHF FM radios or CB radios, cell phone interaction with other people too.

00:34:38.940 Constant communication. Safety was number one priority. When you're leading that many vehicles, the error was what could have been at any minute.

00:34:49.240 So we managed to successfully make it from the west to Ottawa without a single issue, to my knowledge.

00:34:57.200 During that travel, who was primarily responsible for all of that coordination you're talking about?

00:35:03.980 I was at the lead of the pack.

00:35:05.720 We had two escort pilot trucks leading us.

00:35:10.160 Patrick King was in his motorhome halfway back, looking after the back pack.

00:35:16.000 It was constant communication on the radio,

00:35:18.660 constantly upping our speeds, lowering our speeds,

00:35:22.200 trying to keep the convoy at a steady pace together.

00:35:26.000 If I was going too fast, people would start to lag

00:35:30.000 and there would be a distance.

00:35:32.140 We would have to then slow down and catch everybody up.

00:35:35.500 Was there any point on the journey to Ottawa

00:35:37.380 where you were concerned that the convoy, you know,

00:35:40.460 might not make it or something may interfere in the trucks arriving?

00:35:45.000 No, no, everything was well orchestrated. We had police communication right from my role began from Swift Current to Medicine Hat, Alberta, where I picked up Miss Leach and joined the West Convoy.

00:35:59.860 and that was where my my part started we were in communication with the first police force would

00:36:07.420 have been medicine hat we were in contact with swift current regina moose shot all the way

00:36:12.540 across the country for for for police escorts if there was a traffic light we actually called for

00:36:18.040 traffic control at those intersections so we could proceed through the intersection safely

00:36:24.460 right and it's uh the commission's understanding based on some of the documents that

00:36:28.900 your counsel has produced that

00:36:30.920 people were in contact with the police on a daily

00:36:33.140 basis. Yes, sir. Is that accurate? Yes.

00:36:35.320 And were you one of those people? I was,

00:36:37.320 yes.

00:36:40.300 Again, based on

00:36:41.280 the documents the Commission has received, we also

00:36:43.100 understand that when the convoy

00:36:44.960 arrived in Ontario

00:36:47.000 that an OPP escort

00:36:49.020 was there to meet the convoy, is that

00:36:51.260 correct? Yes. You just

00:36:53.020 provide some more explanation about that?

00:36:55.160 I don't know his last name. His name is

00:36:57.120 marty he met us at the west hoc scale which is a scale that borders ontario and manitoba he he met

00:37:04.820 us there he jumped out in front and led us i believe marty follow or led us i believe to

00:37:11.060 thunder bayish area where then he got us into kenora he led us downtown kenora to the rec

00:37:16.740 center parking lot where we were where we staged for the evening we had a funny story not a funny

00:37:22.820 story, but coming into Headingley, Manitoba, the Hutterite communities from around the

00:37:28.440 Winnipeg area came into Headingley with food trailers. They had hot food, burgers, everything

00:37:35.180 you could think of. RCMP had called me and said the amount of people in the Headingley

00:37:39.980 area was too great. It was a huge risk to safety to get in and out of the parking lot

00:37:44.840 for the truck stop. So initially we had to abandon the plan to stop. So we carried on

00:37:52.100 around winnipeg and three uh hutterite vehicles with trailers followed us to kenora and fed us

00:37:59.300 in the parking lot at the rec center that night it was cold as can be and uh and they had the

00:38:03.200 barbecues out and the slow cookers it was quite amazing so when you get into ontario um i i assume

00:38:12.320 the daily contact with the police continued yes and did that include daily contact with both the

00:38:17.560 OPP and the OPS or can you just explain what police services you were? Contact was made with

00:38:25.120 I believe her name was Isabel from OPS. Isabel was in constant contact with I believe Chris

00:38:32.600 Guerra with Adopted Trucker and things were planned on our arrival. And were you in contact

00:38:40.760 with Isabel or anyone from the Ottawa Police Service? I spoke with Isabel a few times on the

00:38:44.800 phone. I've met her once on the ground here. I didn't have a lot of logistics with Isabel. That

00:38:49.740 was already being looked after. And did you speak with Isabel prior to the Convoy's arrival in

00:38:55.680 Ottawa? I believe I did. I made contact with Isabel, but I'm not sure exactly when. There

00:39:00.900 was a phone call made to say, I'm Chris. Here's my contact. When you were speaking with either

00:39:07.160 the OPP or the OPS, and I'm talking about you personally, what were you telling them about the

00:39:13.000 convoys' plans when they arrived in Ottawa?

00:39:16.140 Exactly what it was.

00:39:17.440 We were there to protest border mandates.

00:39:20.760 And our main priority was safety and working with law enforcement, whatever it took.

00:39:26.760 Do you recall having any discussions with any police officers about how long the protest might last?

00:39:32.840 I think the discussion started after the first weekend with OPS, I believe.

00:39:37.120 And we had a couple OPP officers in constant contact, too.

00:39:43.220 I know his name was Andrew.

00:39:46.000 So prior to that point you referenced, so after the first weekend,

00:39:49.920 did you discuss the potential length of the protest with any police officials?

00:39:54.800 I believe not.

00:39:56.020 At what point did you realize that the protest may continue for an extended period of time?

00:40:02.660 I don't know if I ever really thought much into it.

00:40:07.380 Everything moved so fast when we arrived.

00:40:12.360 Prior to arriving in Ottawa, had you personally turned your mind to how long you would stay?

00:40:18.980 Well, my business would suffer.

00:40:21.200 A little longer I was away from it.

00:40:23.820 So that, in the back of my mind, I really didn't know.

00:40:28.160 It was a movement of its own, and it just continued to grow.

00:40:31.820 and you mentally had to try and keep up with it, I guess.

00:40:37.300 In your discussions with either the OPP or the OPS

00:40:40.580 as the convoy was approaching Ottawa,

00:40:43.120 did any of the police services give you direction

00:40:47.480 on where you could park the trucks once you arrived in Ottawa?

00:40:52.540 Interesting story.

00:40:54.940 All the way to Ottawa,

00:40:56.780 my understanding via people in the convoy,

00:41:00.020 Canada Unity was that we had

00:41:02.740 two major staging areas.

00:41:04.560 One was Major Hill Park

00:41:06.600 and the other one was Confederate

00:41:08.700 Park. I believe Confederate. 0.90

00:41:10.840 And that was, to my 0.90

00:41:12.080 understanding, that's where we were allowed

00:41:14.780 to park and

00:41:16.200 protest peacefully.

00:41:19.340 Is that where you ultimately parked?

00:41:20.980 That was not, no.

00:41:22.360 And how did, where did, where

00:41:23.920 I understand that you parked your truck on Wellington

00:41:26.620 Street. Is that fair? We had a police escort

00:41:28.600 down Sir John A. Macdonald off the 417.

00:41:32.580 My understanding, I didn't know this until afterwards,

00:41:35.480 police blocked the convoy after myself

00:41:39.440 and another tractor-trailer went through.

00:41:42.220 They shut the convoy down around the War Museum

00:41:46.500 on Sir John A. Macdonald.

00:41:48.860 They then led myself and Tamara and the pilot trucks.

00:41:53.660 We made it to roughly the Supreme Court on Wellington,

00:41:56.980 and that was as far as we could go.

00:41:58.600 There was a ton of vehicles that had come in the night before, apparently, wanting to be there for the arrival.

00:42:05.000 So there had already been tractor-trailers lined up in front of Parliament down to approximately the Supreme Court.

00:42:12.580 Did that surprise you to see that there was already large commercial vehicles?

00:42:17.980 Yes.

00:42:18.760 And why did that surprise you?

00:42:20.200 I was unaware of it.

00:42:21.480 My understanding was we were going to come in, police were going to escort us right to the two parks,

00:42:26.140 we would park safely out of the way and it would be fine.

00:42:31.160 Did anyone from any police service ever explain to you what had changed?

00:42:35.440 I believe not, no.

00:42:37.700 I don't know if I ever asked that question.

00:42:41.000 Did anyone else ever explain to you what had led to the vehicles being parked

00:42:48.060 in the downtown core as opposed to in the parks you identified?

00:42:52.480 Apparently we caught them off guard.

00:42:54.380 We overwhelmed them right off the bat with the trucks coming in the night before

00:42:58.560 that we were unaware of.

00:42:59.620 Our main convoy, as far as I know, had nothing to do with those prior arrivals.

00:43:06.100 Have you since learned who was the early arrivals?

00:43:13.060 They were all semi-operators.

00:43:15.280 I knew a couple from my home province.

00:43:17.820 They were in the area, apparently.

00:43:20.100 they weren't part of the convoy but they were in the area and they they took part in the in the

00:43:24.980 protest so i i asked you this and i think you have confirmed it but you parked your vehicle

00:43:34.980 on wellington street is that correct yes um after you parked there at any point in time up until

00:43:43.780 we'll say february 14th were you given any indication by any police services that you

00:43:49.460 shouldn't be parked on wellington and you'd need to move i was not no did that come as a surprise to

00:43:54.660 you uh and i don't know if i really had time to think if it was the surprise it was it was so

00:44:01.380 fast-paced the commission has heard evidence from several police witnesses who have been asked

00:44:15.620 questions essentially about whether more could have been done to limit or control the size and

00:44:21.780 scope of the protest uh in ottawa in the early days um i i've heard your answers but i'm just

00:44:29.620 gonna ask you one more time was the police response to the convoy what you were expecting

00:44:35.540 or anticipating when you arrived i guess a hard question to answer um i believe they did the best

00:44:44.580 they could um the the scope of the amount of vehicles that came in um i i don't know how things

00:44:53.700 went so went so wrong when we first arrived we were i they did what they could they did the best

00:45:01.220 they could we were all um 90 of the trucks were stuck out on on sir johnny mcdonald i believe

00:45:08.020 with pretty much abandoned nobody knew where to go nobody had direction

00:45:14.580 In retrospect, do you think it would have been better had the trucks parked where they were initially designated to park?

00:45:24.040 Oh, absolutely.

00:45:25.180 And why is that?

00:45:26.400 Well, if it was staging areas we were allowed to take, Major Hills Park and Confederate Park.

00:45:32.080 I understand now that that was never part of the deal, apparently, although I don't know.

00:45:36.960 That was all I was told.

00:45:41.680 And why would have that been better?

00:45:43.360 We would have been off the main streets, occupying or parking all over the city was never part of why we came.

00:46:04.180 So I've just been handed a note to suggest that both you and I are speaking a little quickly for the interpreter,

00:46:10.440 so I will try to slow down and I'll ask you to also try to slow down.

00:46:12.960 no that's okay we're both to blame so it's okay they're going too fast really so i'm now going to

00:46:19.420 ask you and we've already touched on it a little bit but um about what happened with the uh people

00:46:27.760 who were originally involved in organizing the convoy we've spoken about mr bowter already but

00:46:32.800 i'm going to now ask you about pat king um and as i understand it that in or around

00:46:39.720 January 22nd, 24th, in around that time period,

00:46:45.280 you and Ms. Leach began having discussions about concerns relating to Mr. King.

00:46:50.420 Do you know what I'm talking about?

00:46:51.620 Yes.

00:46:52.100 Okay.

00:46:52.480 Can you please explain to me the nature of those discussions and what the concerns were?

00:46:56.540 I believe the first episode was a CBC article.

00:46:59.720 It came out of some past prior social media posts that Pat had been a part of,

00:47:05.500 And we met with Pat, discussed our concerns.

00:47:12.540 I believe we smoothed the waters over and we carried on at that point.

00:47:17.440 So do you recall what concerns and what had been reported in that CBC article that caused you concern?

00:47:23.920 I don't really. I never read the article.

00:47:27.240 There was something about something Pat said years ago.

00:47:29.920 So, according to Pat, the article was edited or what he said was edited.

00:47:37.300 I can confirm or deny that.

00:47:39.980 So, I'm going to pull up a document.

00:47:41.580 It's HRF 40s 1221, and we'll go to page two.

00:47:46.900 And while this document comes up, Mr. Barber,

00:47:48.740 this is a document that has been provided by the Convoy Organizers Group.

00:47:53.240 It's a timeline of events that has been provided.

00:47:58.920 so this was provided to us from your by your council and if we could go to january 24th at

00:48:04.660 the bottom of page two um and would it be possible uh yeah thank you mr clark so uh you can read the

00:48:12.600 uh the entry that says concerns re pat king do you see them yes so this here says tamara and

00:48:21.020 chris discuss concerns about pat king after viewing a tweet with a video making reference

00:48:25.680 to bullets do you see that yes um do you is is this conversation being described here the same

00:48:33.060 conversation we were just talking about i believe so yes does this refresh your memory at all about

00:48:37.320 what the concerns were yes okay can you please explain uh this the article was was made to sound

00:48:43.820 like like bullets would be flying apparently according to mr king when when we confronted

00:48:48.520 it on him he stated that the article was was taken out of contents edited to make him sound like he

00:48:54.840 was planning violence where i believe is what he was trying to convey in that article was was

00:49:01.720 different than was what was portrayed by the by the media and the commission has seen reports

00:49:06.760 that at some point in time mr king made a comment along the lines of this this is going to end in

00:49:11.160 bullets do you know if that's what was being discussed that was according to what i was told

00:49:15.640 That was a previous post two years prior, something to do with an Indigenous standoff.

00:49:25.280 And during this conversation, were you also aware that the media was reporting on a video

00:49:31.920 in which Mr. King had made a suggestion that at some point Justin Trudeau may catch a bullet one day?

00:49:40.880 Were you aware of that?

00:49:41.480 I recall something about that, yes.

00:49:42.880 do you remember if that was something you knew about during this discussion or

00:49:46.080 after this discussion did you learn more about where mr king had posted i believe it might have

00:49:49.840 been after so it says in here in the second sentence chris agreed perhaps pat should be sent

00:50:02.320 home but there was concern about the trucks pat brought with him do you see that yes um what was

00:50:08.880 the concern about the trucks uh possibly division inside the convoy pat brought a certain following

00:50:17.920 with um i don't remember the extent of of anything after that we discussed

00:50:26.480 sending him home and obviously he didn't was the concern that if mr king was sent home or

00:50:34.480 asked to not participate that his supporters would also stop participating that would have been a

00:50:40.160 good guess yes so if we can continue on um the next sentence uh talks about a it says talk to

00:50:52.960 pat about the tweet on the roadside do you see that yes was that uh the conversation you had

00:50:57.360 already described to us yes okay and was it were you a part of that conversation i believe so yes

00:51:01.840 Okay. And then it says, following this, a captain's meeting was held in Kenora, and at the end of the day, where everyone expressed concern about Pat King's involvement...

00:51:11.620 Slow down, then.

00:51:13.700 Yes, thank you.

00:51:14.940 The decision was made that someone would talk to Pat within the coming days and request that he not attend in Ottawa. Do you see that?

00:51:22.060 Yes.

00:51:22.640 Okay. I'm going to ask you a question about these two sentences, but before I do that, can you just explain what a captain's meeting is?

00:51:31.020 We had road captains involved in approximately two road captains per province to organize the trucks.

00:51:41.040 Those were the people that the people from that province could go to with concerns or issues.

00:51:46.620 So we had a number of road captains within the convoy.

00:51:51.240 And it sounds in here like after your initial conversation with Mr. King that concerns continued to be raised by other members of the organization. Is that correct?

00:52:03.080 Yes.

00:52:03.620 Okay. And do you know if someone ultimately spoke with Mr. King and asked him not to attend in Ottawa?

00:52:13.040 Possibly. I wasn't involved in that conversation.

00:52:15.260 at any point did you hear from miss leach or anyone else about whether that conversation

00:52:21.940 had occurred not to my recollection i don't and mr king continued on to ottawa yes he did

00:52:27.940 were you aware of any resolution having been reached between the people who had concerns

00:52:33.040 and mr king i believe whatever happened it worked itself out to the point where pat stayed with the

00:52:41.180 convoy. Were you personally concerned about what Mr. King had said previously on social media?

00:52:51.640 I don't believe it was a concern. He explained to me that it was taken out of context and

00:52:56.300 edited to make him sound worse than it was. I took him for his word on it.

00:53:04.100 So you accepted the explanation at the time? Yes. Do you today still believe that,

00:53:09.640 Do you still accept that explanation?

00:53:12.360 I believe Pat had all the right reasons and a good heart.

00:53:18.960 So I'm going to pull up another document.

00:53:20.960 This is COM 50902.

00:53:31.800 And while we're waiting for the document to come up, Mr. Barber,

00:53:34.860 uh this is a news article and we can go to page three of the of the document this is another

00:53:40.360 reason the media needs to be called to testify on this on text messages between yourself and

00:53:46.120 miss leach um and as i understand it uh and we will get to this later when you were arrested

00:53:51.900 uh the police seized your phone and you no longer have access to the messages on your phone is that

00:53:56.200 yes and i also understand that we expect to hear from miss leach that she also no longer has access

00:54:02.360 to her text messages. 0.67

00:54:04.060 You don't need to comment on that. 0.95

00:54:05.440 We can ask Ms. Leach about it.

00:54:07.800 But I'm showing you this news article,

00:54:10.440 and as we go through, if there's anything in the article

00:54:12.680 that you think is not accurate,

00:54:14.420 and I appreciate you don't have your phone with you anymore,

00:54:16.720 you can let me know, okay?

00:54:21.360 So if we go down, it says,

00:54:25.240 on January 22nd, Leach told Barbara

00:54:28.860 they needed to have a very frank discussion with King.

00:54:32.360 raising concerns about past allegations with him despite these concerns leach also said he was

00:54:38.400 needed by the movement in an apparent contrast to later statements in which the convoy tried

00:54:43.340 to distance themselves distance itself from king we need him and i don't care about his past but

00:54:50.360 it only takes one she said we have to control his rhetoric not even threatening to throw

00:54:55.540 snowballs at parliament. Do you see that? Yes. Okay. Do you recall if this is something that

00:55:04.020 Ms. Leach text messaged you? My phone was very busy. I'm assuming it's here, so it had to be.

00:55:10.540 No reason to say this was not a message she sent you. Right.

00:55:16.980 When Ms. Leach said the movement needed Mr. King, do you know what she meant by that?

00:55:25.540 I can't. I'm not sure.

00:55:29.940 Do you agree that the movement needed Mr. King?

00:55:34.380 The best thing about the movement was it was inclusive to everyone, regardless of any beliefs, I guess.

00:55:44.460 Everyone had a place. Everybody had a spot. It was just managing how.

00:55:49.080 so i take it from your answers and i just want to make sure i'm i'm i'm fair here is that

00:55:58.560 you from what you had learned about what mr king and maybe said in the past the content of those

00:56:03.740 statements didn't concern you because of the explanation mr king provided is that fair

00:56:07.900 i guess pat and i had a power struggle between each other that was pretty evident right from

00:56:15.560 day one it was just it was a it was a it was a power struggle back and forth over control um it

00:56:22.020 wasn't anything that couldn't have been managed

00:56:24.100 did you have any concerns separate and apart from your own views about what mr king may or not said

00:56:35.560 did you have any concern about the public image of having mr king associated with the freedom

00:56:42.140 convoy movement tough question i guess there would have been some concerns at times i guess the the

00:56:51.100 bad media uh posts and releases on a regular basis definitely caused some concern and can you just

00:56:59.980 explain what you mean by did you say the the media yeah and and what was concerning you about the

00:57:04.380 media they attacked them on a regular basis i believe did you think those attacks were fair

00:57:09.580 I didn't know. Like I said, I didn't know Pat previous to the convoy. I met him on the 13th for the first time, and things were so busy after that, it was hard to keep your head around all the different moving parts.

00:57:26.480 Other than being busy, is there any reason you didn't do more to look into the people who were associated with your convoy?

00:57:33.320 My primary goal was to get those trucks to Ottawa safely.

00:57:36.980 So phone conversations and that were hard to have.

00:57:41.920 Everything that we did was logistics.

00:57:44.740 It was myself on the mic, on the CB mic or the FM radio mic all day long,

00:57:51.380 making sure the trucks were safe.

00:57:52.740 I kind of left that up to other people in the organization.

00:57:56.180 you say this media report says that you texted to miss leach i know he's had issues i've got

00:58:04.600 skeletons in the closet too do you see that yes do you recall texting that to miss leach yes okay

00:58:10.880 what were the skeletons in your closet well i've been like i've said before i've been an internet

00:58:15.260 troll for many years at this point in time was there something in whether was there anything

00:58:20.300 in particular that concerned you about what you had done on the internet nothing that was related

00:58:25.140 to the convoy what about things that were unrelated to the convoy yes what concerned you i used to post

00:58:33.060 nasty distasteful memes be it share memes or or just posting online in a negative way and it's

00:58:45.780 the commission's understanding that some some members of the media uh identified certain

00:58:50.420 facebook posts that you had made and and had reported on them or tweeted about them is that

00:58:54.820 something you were aware of at the time yeah they've been circulated for quite some time okay

00:58:58.900 and um these include facebook posts uh that contained racist and anti-muslim comments is

00:59:05.860 that a fair characterization yes okay and i expect you may be asked questions about those by some of

00:59:11.380 the parties and i wanted to give you an opportunity now if you wanted it to speak to some of the racist

00:59:17.060 or anti-muslim things you posted well i can honestly say that that if anybody learned anything

00:59:22.660 or grew more during the convoy, it was me.

00:59:25.800 I was a different person nine months ago,

00:59:30.380 whatever it was, ten months ago.

00:59:33.520 Coming out here and seeing the amount of love

00:59:36.420 and the people of all different colours,

00:59:39.380 all different races, everything.

00:59:40.880 It was such a diverse crowd of people here.

00:59:43.340 There was, I said there were so many tears.

00:59:46.520 There were so many hugs.

00:59:47.660 There was so much laughter.

00:59:48.840 There was so much, it was, it changed the person.

00:59:52.660 It changed me.

00:59:54.460 How did you change?

00:59:57.420 It just, it humbled me, I guess.

01:00:01.360 It made me realize that a lot of the stuff that I used to post on the internet before was very distasteful.

01:00:09.200 And there's a better way to do it.

01:00:22.660 one of the things that the media reported on during the convoy was that you had a

01:00:29.860 confederate flag in your shop in swift current do you know what i'm talking about yes okay and um

01:00:36.660 you posted at least one or two tick tocks addressing that issue do you recall i did yes

01:00:41.140 and in one of those uh tick tocks you said that the confederate flag was you explained that you

01:00:46.980 i believe you purchased it in the united states do i have that correct yes and then you described

01:00:50.580 it as a piece of cloth and get over yourself yes is that a sentiment you continue to have

01:00:56.900 i believe there's two different contexts to look at the the confederate flag i've got a good friend

01:01:02.420 that lives outside of atlanta georgia she's an african-american lady i had an in-depth conversation

01:01:07.860 with her many times on this occasion she's explained it to me quite well she said the way

01:01:12.740 the the two different contexts is how you look at the flag was the area of the general lee and the

01:01:18.020 the Dukes of Hazzard via like Kid Rock, Leonard Skynyrd music. When we grew up in our hometown,

01:01:24.940 we had, we called it a rebel flag or a Dixie flag. We didn't really call it a Confederate flag.

01:01:29.800 It was on license plates. It was on back windows. It was everywhere. And at that time,

01:01:34.520 it was more accepted apparently. So in my travels in the deep south years ago, I'd come across a

01:01:40.020 flag store. I'd seen the Dixie flag there. I purchased it. I hung it up on the wall of my

01:01:45.760 shop not thinking anything of it my my african-american lady friend in in georgia explained

01:01:51.560 to me that if you wore that flag over your shoulders to a confederate battlefield i would

01:01:56.180 probably call you a lot of names but she said being the way you're you're displaying it now

01:02:00.780 and uh the fact that you you loved your childhood watching the dukes of hazard and seeing that flag

01:02:06.680 on the roof of the general lee it's a different context do you still have the flag in your shop

01:02:12.300 What I did with the flags in the shop was I zip-tied them, so they were hanging on the

01:02:17.020 wall of the shop, I went up on a ladder and I zip-tied them together.

01:02:20.540 They're still there but they're not displayed in the correct manner, out of respect for.

01:02:30.140 And when you talk about how you've changed, is that an example of something you're doing

01:02:33.020 differently?

01:02:34.020 That would be, yes.

01:02:37.020 We've spoken about Mr. King a bit.

01:02:42.840 Once you arrived in Ottawa, did you continue to work with Mr. Bowder

01:02:50.740 in terms of the protest activity that was going on in Ottawa?

01:02:53.280 No, I hardly seen James the time I was here.

01:02:56.900 And we've spoken a bit about Ms. Belton.

01:03:00.140 Once you arrived in Ottawa, what was Ms. Belton's role in the convoy?

01:03:04.440 Same as myself.

01:03:05.240 She was more centralized around the hotel area where we had our daily meetings, making sure things were looked after.

01:03:13.840 My job morphed into more of an outside walking the streets, making sure the trucks were well looked after, making sure the concerns were well.

01:03:23.040 Working with law enforcement on a day-to-day basis, making sure that we had emergency lanes open wherever the trucks were parked.

01:03:29.480 We had a couple different hotspots, not hotspots, but places in the city that we had, we'd lost, we couldn't get the emergency lanes open.

01:03:38.460 And they weren't, looking back now, they weren't the trucks that came with us from the west.

01:03:44.760 The one issue was Rideau and Sussex.

01:03:46.840 We spent many days down trying to get an emergency lane open with law enforcement, OPP and OPS.

01:03:54.300 And then we're going to have some questions about Rideau and Sussex in a moment.

01:03:57.980 We expect that Ms. Belton may indicate that there's been a falling out between you and her.

01:04:02.860 Is that true?

01:04:03.760 Yes.

01:04:04.220 And what's the nature of that falling out?

01:04:06.280 Just difference of opinions.

01:04:08.180 What are the different opinions?

01:04:11.080 I don't even...

01:04:13.100 Just difference of opinion, different direction.

01:04:17.520 I just chose to stay on a path.

01:04:20.320 My criminal charges have left me to be a lot more silent.

01:04:23.320 I can't speak with what I used to be able to speak about the convoy.

01:04:29.280 I've had to remain silent.

01:04:30.660 So instead of fighting with anybody there, I've said my piece and went my different ways.

01:04:39.120 If we could pull up a video, HRF 146.

01:04:44.520 and again i'll give you some context while it comes up so this is one of your tick tocks

01:04:56.820 mr barbara yeah and we're going to watch it in its entirety and then i'll have some questions

01:05:04.800 flowing from it okay hey guys convoy related issues right now and i just want to get this

01:05:12.880 out there this convoy to ottawa next week on sunday is a peaceful protest anybody that joins

01:05:21.140 this protest or this convoy from either coast to coast is to adhere to the rules of the convoy

01:05:27.960 and i am dead serious if anybody fucks with them they are out emergency vehicles have the right of 0.52

01:05:33.820 when it when the lights are flashing we pull over and they are the utmost 0.79

01:05:38.800 attention law enforcement is to be respected never ever not respected we

01:05:46.120 are working with law enforcement across the country in big cities and we have

01:05:50.800 their approval a hundred percent until we fuck that up

01:05:55.000 convoy rules there's a code of ethics we're gonna have to follow we want this

01:05:59.380 done properly right now the public is 100 on the truckers and this mandate removal of mandate side 0.76

01:06:07.380 we do not want to lose that when we start acting like assholes we lose that let's keep our eyes 0.60

01:06:13.380 on the prize and hit the federal government where it hurts we want the mandates gone

01:06:18.820 mandates need to be removed and we're not leaving until they are thanks guys

01:06:24.500 Thank you, Mr. Clerk. You can pull that down.

01:06:28.260 So I have a few questions arising out of that video.

01:06:31.960 One of the things you say early on is that you want a peaceful protest.

01:06:36.100 And the Commission has seen many instances, and we don't have the time to take you to them all,

01:06:40.620 of where you insist on the protest being peaceful,

01:06:43.660 and to the extent there's any sort of suggestion of violence,

01:06:46.680 you immediately step in and say, this needs to be peaceful.

01:06:50.600 Why was that important to you?

01:06:52.540 We had the public on our support.

01:06:54.500 That was, and I apologize for the language there, Commissioner.

01:06:58.760 That was another thing that I've worked on in the last number of months.

01:07:02.180 I've heard worse.

01:07:03.320 I've heard worse.

01:07:05.380 That's good.

01:07:06.380 You can take the trucker out of the truck, but yeah.

01:07:10.860 That was the utmost importance.

01:07:12.420 We had, the world was watching us.

01:07:13.940 We had, there were so many people and safety was utmost.

01:07:17.860 And we were told by the lawyers flew out, I believe it was the end of the month, the first part of February, something like that.

01:07:26.440 And we were told by the lawyers on a daily basis that we were a legitimate protest.

01:07:31.260 We were allowed to be there.

01:07:32.500 We were doing the right things.

01:07:34.200 And the last thing I wanted to do was wreck that for the people that we were trying to represent.

01:07:40.720 And there was a ton of support all across the country, all over the world, really.

01:07:43.580 And to put that video into a bit of context, you say that this is a message for the convoy that's coming next week, or arriving, and so we understand that that video was taken probably sometime in the week of January 23rd. Does that sound right?

01:07:57.560 I believe so, yes.

01:07:58.780 So that would have been before the lawyers had gotten involved and beginning to get direction from them. Is that correct?

01:08:03.880 Yes.

01:08:04.080 So at that point in time, when you're emphasizing the importance of a peaceful protest, did you have concern that the people who were participating in the convoy might not be peaceful?

01:08:16.040 I'll give you a little example of truck drivers.

01:08:19.580 They're like herding cats.

01:08:22.800 You've got every different style of driver.

01:08:27.840 And I've always said you put 200 truck drivers in a room and somebody's going to get a black eye and a broken nose.

01:08:33.460 But, and knowing that going into it, I was worried about that because of the differences of opinion with all truck drivers.

01:08:41.200 I can honestly say that that was something that surprised me.

01:08:45.580 There was none of that.

01:08:46.660 The drivers were well, in what I've seen, they were extremely well behaved.

01:08:52.280 They listened to the rules of the road.

01:08:54.560 I didn't have a single incident with, to my recollection, that it went bad.

01:08:59.220 So they listened to the rules of the road, I assume, you mean on the way to Ottawa, is that fair?

01:09:04.340 Yes.

01:09:04.780 Once you got into Ottawa, was your observation that the protest was peaceful?

01:09:09.940 I believe it was loud, but it was peaceful.

01:09:13.900 Did you see any acts of violence?

01:09:16.720 I did not, no.

01:09:17.780 And we'll get to the noise in a moment.

01:09:19.840 Yeah.

01:09:19.920 In another TikTok video you posted, and this would have been during the protests in Ottawa,

01:09:30.200 you say that the last thing we need is a January 6th-style insurrection,

01:09:35.600 and that was one of your biggest concerns.

01:09:37.460 Do you recall saying that?

01:09:38.960 Yes.

01:09:40.160 Why was that one of your biggest concerns?

01:09:42.200 I believe the federal government was backed into a corner, not wanting to speak to us.

01:09:50.800 And I personally believe that that was the only way, I guess, out of it for them to demonize us to the point where they could say insurrection when that wasn't the case.

01:10:03.580 And so I pushed that message constantly, daily, peace, love, unity.

01:10:08.960 Like I said, it changed me as a person listening to myself daily saying that.

01:10:13.200 When you were saying that, what sort of activity were you contemplating

01:10:18.260 that might give rise either correctly or incorrectly to the impression

01:10:22.180 that this was going to be some form of insurrection?

01:10:25.220 The police buildup.

01:10:28.120 We had daily meetings with police, whether it be OPP or OPS,

01:10:34.580 and everything was positive,

01:10:35.880 But it seemed like the police presence built on a daily basis.

01:10:41.740 Was there anything that other protesters were doing that were concerning you?

01:10:45.160 And I'm not just talking about protesters within your group.

01:10:47.680 I'm talking about of all the people who are in Ottawa.

01:10:51.120 Not that I've seen, no.

01:10:52.500 The trucks that I looked after on a day-to-day basis were all excited.

01:10:57.600 They were excited.

01:10:58.420 We were two years outside of lockdowns and mandates, and people got to live again.

01:11:04.680 and we've seen that on a daily basis.

01:11:08.980 So another thing you mentioned in the video that we showed

01:11:11.640 was that there was rules of the convoy.

01:11:13.400 You talked about clearing the way for emergency vehicles

01:11:15.760 and that law enforcement need to be respected.

01:11:18.280 Was there any other rules of the convoy?

01:11:21.800 Basically, that was it.

01:11:25.040 Yes, there was a code of...

01:11:26.560 I don't remember if we actually did a code of conduct up or not,

01:11:29.660 or we just...

01:11:30.540 Mornings, we had tailgate safety meetings with the drivers

01:11:33.420 to make sure that everything was well um there was constant communication with everything

01:11:38.940 i had no concerns with the trucks the trucks were always well behaved and like i said law

01:11:43.660 enforcement was always open and honest we did we worked really well with every law enforcement that

01:11:48.380 i ever spoke to but at the same time you recognize that it was important to have rules and try as an

01:11:58.060 organizer to at least have try to have some sort of order over the people that were in ottawa is

01:12:03.260 Is that fair?

01:12:03.760 Yes.

01:12:04.600 As an organizer, did you believe that you had responsibility for the conduct of the protesters in Ottawa?

01:12:10.880 I took it upon myself to do everything in my power to make sure that the drivers were notified if things weren't right.

01:12:22.340 I can't say it was my responsibility.

01:12:24.000 I don't act on behalf of someone else, but I definitely did what I could to try and make sure things were done properly.

01:12:32.700 And what motivated you to do that?

01:12:35.680 Just the sheer size of it and the support.

01:12:39.240 We had support, like I said, all over the country, all over the world.

01:12:42.820 And there were so many people watching.

01:12:45.240 It was exciting to see the general public.

01:12:49.560 And one of the biggest things for me was I was excited to see the young kids get back involved with trucks

01:12:54.860 that were excited for the horn honk, the standing on the side of the highway.

01:13:00.860 Kids wanted to be truck drivers again, and I haven't seen that since I was a child.

01:13:06.680 So from what I'm hearing, and I want you to correct me if I'm wrong,

01:13:09.400 is that you liked what you were seeing, you felt it was positive,

01:13:12.620 and you wanted to try to keep that atmosphere because you wanted to continue the positive experience.

01:13:20.560 Is that a fair sort of summary, perhaps not the most articulate?

01:13:24.280 Correct.

01:13:24.600 when you were in ottawa what were your views on the police's responsibilities with respect to

01:13:32.920 peaceful protest they they always they seem to respect

01:13:38.120 i dealt with quite a few on a daily basis and i can't

01:13:43.180 i can't say i had a harsh conversation or anything with any of them maybe

01:13:47.940 police were always respectful i would walk up to random officers standing on the side

01:13:54.580 of the street and just or sitting in a police car patrolling a barricade and say everything okay

01:14:00.700 have you seen anything that that was a concern and uh i never once once got a reaction bad

01:14:07.660 in the video we showed you mentioned that the public is on our side and when we start

01:14:15.780 acting like assholes we lose that absolutely do you recall that yes what did it mean to you 1.00

01:14:21.060 to be acting like an asshole? 1.00

01:14:24.260 Disrespectful. 1.00

01:14:26.900 Not playing by the code of conduct or the rules.

01:14:32.160 Can you give me an example of something

01:14:34.000 that you believed would be disrespectful?

01:14:40.960 Being disruptive, I guess.

01:14:45.320 Like I said, we tried on a daily basis

01:14:47.620 to make sure everybody was looked after.

01:14:51.060 So the police had free lanes through all, ambulances had free lanes.

01:14:57.280 I know it was pretty tricky. We worked diligently on it.

01:15:00.340 I lost about 20 pounds in a matter of three weeks with the amount of walking I did working with law enforcement.

01:15:05.980 I had a vehicle here, but it was hard to get around with a vehicle, so a lot of times it was walking, and it was frigid.

01:15:12.180 It was 20 to 30 below. I had two T-shirts on, two hoodies on, and long underwear and three pairs of socks at times.

01:15:21.060 I won't ask you if you put the weight back on, so I wouldn't want anyone asking me that question. 0.99

01:15:27.920 So you say acting like an asshole included conduct that was disrespectful or disruptive. 0.98

01:15:35.960 Did you see anything that was disrespectful or disruptive when you were in Ottawa? 0.99

01:15:39.940 Personally, I didn't, no.

01:15:41.920 And when I say that, I appreciate that not everyone in Ottawa was necessarily someone who had come with your group or who might listen to you.

01:15:50.120 Is that fair?

01:15:50.760 That's fair.

01:15:51.420 So with that in mind, at any point, did you see anything in Ottawa that, you know,

01:15:56.300 that might not be the person who came with you, but you wish they weren't doing it?

01:16:00.600 I never seen, like I said, I never seen anything that really concerned me.

01:16:04.900 If somebody was there that wasn't part of the original group that I brought in,

01:16:10.360 I would try really hard to negotiate with them or work with them to open that lane

01:16:16.000 if they were parked in a spot that wasn't where it should have been.

01:16:20.060 Sometimes it was successful, sometimes it wasn't.

01:16:22.540 I really struggled a lot with, like I said before,

01:16:26.720 when it comes to all truckers are different,

01:16:28.980 that dynamic really played in certain parts of the city.

01:16:35.640 What was your view on how the protest was portrayed in the media?

01:16:41.260 It was a negative light right from day one.

01:16:43.460 they uh they uh yeah what do you think was being missed everything um i had numerous occasions

01:16:53.660 where people came up to me and said they had to come down and see it for themselves because the

01:16:59.220 media wasn't portraying it properly and it was a different thing when they got here

01:17:03.600 the commission has heard and received heard evidence and received written evidence from

01:17:11.400 various residents and municipal officials several complaints about the protesters conduct i expect

01:17:17.720 you'll be familiar with them but some of the things that the commission has heard is that

01:17:21.160 there was excessive noise due to air horns there was harassment and intimidating behavior including

01:17:27.400 people yelling racist or homophobic slurs and that there was just a general disorder and unsafe

01:17:33.160 conditions including open fires propane tanks uh near near buildings and and cars um is this

01:17:41.640 this sort of evidence or or concerns are you familiar with that i can honestly say i never

01:17:47.720 encountered a single episode of that obviously there was fires for people trying to stay warm

01:17:53.080 there was there was propane tanks for for heating things no different than i have a propane tank on

01:17:58.840 my my porch with a with a portable barbecue so um as long as it was looked after safely i guess

01:18:10.760 in your mind who was responsible for making sure that taking with the propane tanks or other

01:18:17.400 or other flammables who was responsible for making sure the protest was safe and

01:18:21.240 not that anyone was going to do anything intentional with a propane tank but something

01:18:24.440 bad could happen and and and people could get hurt who was responsible for avoiding that outcome

01:18:29.240 we left things up to the road captains like i said there was usually two road caps captains

01:18:34.120 per province but that morphed into uh usually a couple road captains per block and we would hold

01:18:41.560 not myself personally i stayed out of most of those meetings but the people would hold meetings

01:18:46.120 every day to go over certain things and issues and safety concerns

01:18:51.000 I now ask you about the horn honking.

01:18:58.080 The commission has heard evidence, and I'm sure you're aware that at different times in the protest, there was a lot of horn honking.

01:19:04.580 I assume you'll agree with me about that.

01:19:06.420 Yes.

01:19:07.080 Did you consider the horn honking to be a form of peaceful protest?

01:19:12.680 I consider the horn honking to be a form of excitement.

01:19:15.420 More than peaceful protest, I'll be the first to admit the horns annoyed me.

01:19:22.340 I did everything in my power to try and get the horns to stop.

01:19:25.560 I've put out multiple videos on a regular basis saying stop,

01:19:30.820 especially after the court order came in on, I believe, whatever day that was, the 7th.

01:19:37.100 So let's pause there for a moment.

01:19:40.280 the horns bothered you and prior to the court order which was an injunction to stop stop the

01:19:46.900 horn honking what steps did you take to limit the horns prior to the court order speaking to the

01:19:52.120 drivers um it was getting everyone orientated trying to get them situated in a place where

01:19:58.260 they were safe and their needs could be met i guess seeing as our entry was was so messed up

01:20:05.600 I'll use the words.

01:20:08.320 It was organized chaos, unorganized chaos.

01:20:13.020 There was trucks everywhere.

01:20:14.100 There was vehicles everywhere.

01:20:16.520 The only thing I could do was put my videos out stating, you know,

01:20:19.580 like, we're not here to disrupt residents of Ottawa.

01:20:22.360 They didn't ask for this.

01:20:23.560 It was the federal government is why we came and did what we could.

01:20:29.920 So I'm going to show you a video and then a post from your Facebook.

01:20:34.260 So we'll start with the video.

01:20:36.800 This is HRF192.

01:20:40.540 And again, this is one of your TikToks.

01:20:51.220 They've already filed a $4 million civil lawsuit against us for horns. 0.96

01:20:56.740 You guys shut up over there.

01:20:59.120 Am I doing my part? 0.97

01:21:00.120 and then if we could pull up uh com five zeros eight eight nine

01:21:11.600 do you get an idea what kind of guy i am on social media by that 0.86

01:21:15.340 i'll add while we pull up would that be an example of you being a troll

01:21:19.040 no that's me being a funny guy all right so now i'm showing you if we could zoom out so we can

01:21:25.540 see this and uh we understand this to be a facebook post from that you made on february 12

01:21:32.840 2022 um come on to assist i believe that is the character buffalo bill from the movie silence

01:21:40.080 it's a meme um and this is uh a joke about uh how that if they if the government doesn't get

01:21:47.880 rid of the mandates the the horns are going to come back do you see that yes and then i'm going

01:21:52.900 to show you one other Facebook post that's com50888. And so in this one, this appears that

01:22:11.720 you're sharing on February 13th a photo, I would guess this would be described as a meme of a boy

01:22:19.200 blowing a bugle or a trumpet uh being symbolized as the rest of canada and then the ottawa ottawa

01:22:26.480 plugging their ears is that fair yes okay um and first i'll ask you uh are these are these two

01:22:33.200 posts that you made on facebook it's my name um like i said things were so busy i i'm i'm assuming

01:22:40.320 i i shared that one obviously i would have uh probably shared the first one too it was uh

01:22:47.040 scrolling facebook and seen it and just hit the share button that was probably it's just a meme

01:22:54.080 it's a joke at the time i guess so when you look at the video we showed in these two facebook posts

01:22:59.800 could you see why someone would question your sincerity when you say that you did everything

01:23:04.760 in your power to stop the horns absolutely yes and what would you again you have an opportunity

01:23:10.260 to speak to that is there anything you'd like to say i can't take what i what i posted i guess it

01:23:15.660 It was the excitement of the day on social media,

01:23:19.420 flipping through social media and seeing the post.

01:23:23.380 It's a joke.

01:23:24.200 It's a click of a button to share it and put it out.

01:23:27.320 Seeing it now, I'd say it's distasteful.

01:23:31.580 We can take that down.

01:23:34.780 Briefly, I'm going to ask you some questions about efforts

01:23:37.060 to move trucks onto Wellington Street,

01:23:39.520 and I understand there was a few different attempts,

01:23:42.380 and we're going to hear more evidence about it this week,

01:23:44.580 But I have some questions for you.

01:23:50.360 So we've heard the evidence that on February 14th,

01:23:53.180 after an agreement was reached with the mayor,

01:23:54.980 you were involved in moving four large trucks up to Wellington Street.

01:23:58.300 Is that correct?

01:23:59.200 It was more than four.

01:24:00.540 Yes.

01:24:00.820 Sorry, I said 40.

01:24:01.880 40?

01:24:02.260 Yes.

01:24:02.640 Okay, sorry.

01:24:03.380 Sorry.

01:24:07.240 And prior to that,

01:24:08.600 we understand that the Freedom Convoy Group had made an effort to have the

01:24:13.120 trucks and the Rideau and Sussex intersection moved onto Wellington Street. Do I have that

01:24:17.920 correct? We made an attempt, yes. Okay, and can you tell me what happened with that attempt?

01:24:23.840 I was successful with one truck. There was a load safe. It was a tractor-trailer. He was parked

01:24:31.860 near right by the War Memorial. I remember the story on it. He was parked sideways across the

01:24:37.400 complete intersection, and law enforcement had tried to get him to straighten his truck out for

01:24:41.660 quite some time and failed at it miserably um i remember it was easy i walked over to the truck

01:24:48.640 i stepped up on the running board and i said hey buddy you're in the way really bad and you're

01:24:52.960 causing us some grief could you just back it up against the curb please and you'll save us all

01:24:56.640 out of trouble and he literally put the truck in gear and backed it up against the the opp and the

01:25:02.540 ops officers were amazed it was that easy was the other were you able to move the other trucks on

01:25:08.880 Was not, no. Those were a different group there. It was harder to talk to them.

01:25:14.320 And what was your understanding at the time of who was in the Rideau and Sussex intersection?

01:25:19.560 I remember there being a language barrier. There was a lot of Quebecers in that corner, right in the Rideau-Sussex corner.

01:25:25.020 So that, yeah, I didn't have much interaction. I remember being there maybe twice to try and work something out to get some lanes open, as poor OPS and OPP asking.

01:25:36.400 I was unsuccessful every time so as I under I just want to make sure I understand this correctly

01:25:42.720 uh in in your conversations with the OPS and OPP you were trying to get a lane open for emergency

01:25:47.540 vehicles is that correct correct and uh you you made an effort with the people at Rideau Sussex

01:25:53.040 it was unsuccessful yes and other than the language barrier was there any other reasons

01:25:57.980 that that was unsuccessful to your mind uh they were they were there and they they just refused

01:26:03.200 to move so i did what i could i worked with law enforcement i said maybe it was twice miss miss

01:26:09.760 leach and i were there with ops one day and i believe i was there by myself with ops another

01:26:16.160 separate time so probably twice i was there um and did you have uh um prior at the time were you

01:26:27.760 familiar with the name the farfa does i was not no um do you know when the first time you heard

01:26:33.680 the term farfa does about a week ago under a week ago in the context of this commission yes

01:26:42.720 i understand it means leprechaun in french or in english apparently it was according to

01:26:47.280 well we'll have a witness testifying later today who i'm sure can shed more light on the far more

01:26:51.760 More than me, yes.

01:27:00.000 I'm going to now ask you some questions about the other protests

01:27:03.380 that occurred outside of Ottawa in January and February 2022.

01:27:08.860 While you were in Ottawa, did you have any communications

01:27:11.320 or interactions with anyone who was participating in protests in Windsor?

01:27:15.880 I don't believe so.

01:27:18.420 If there was messages on my phone, they would be people with no contact information, just phone numbers.

01:27:24.000 I received so many text messages from so many different people.

01:27:27.620 I don't want to say that I didn't, because I may have.

01:27:30.120 I never endorsed it.

01:27:31.620 I never communicated openly with anybody from Windsor at all.

01:27:36.260 Do you recall whether anyone asked you or anyone that you were working with in Ottawa for assistance with respect to the protests in Windsor?

01:27:43.840 If anybody asked me, I declined.

01:27:45.940 We were never associated.

01:27:47.780 We had enough to deal with here we weren't worried about.

01:27:51.860 Did you have any interactions or communications with anyone participating in any of the other protests anywhere else in Canada?

01:27:59.460 And I can give you examples if it helps, but I'm going to ask you generally to start.

01:28:03.620 I got text messages from some friends at Coutts, never any, just saying how things were going,

01:28:10.960 never any advice or never asked any questions to my recollection.

01:28:15.540 They had their own thing going on there,

01:28:17.860 and it wasn't involved with us in the city here.

01:28:19.940 Who were your friends at Coots?

01:28:23.460 There's a couple guys that were down there,

01:28:26.340 just some local drivers that I've been friends with for years.

01:28:29.380 Who were they?

01:28:30.800 One man, his name is Dan Somerville.

01:28:32.540 He was off and on.

01:28:33.480 He was never an active participant.

01:28:35.040 He went down just to check it out and come back.

01:28:38.720 There was another guy.

01:28:39.660 I don't know his name.

01:28:40.400 I'd have to look at my phone.

01:28:42.480 I know what truck he drives.

01:28:43.640 I know what he hauls.

01:28:44.360 And do you know this individual whose name you don't recall, do you know if he was participating in the organization of the Coutts protests or if he was a participant?

01:28:53.740 I think he was just a participant, yeah. I don't know the organizers at Coutts or Windsor.

01:28:59.240 Did you have any communications with anyone who was protesting in Emerson or Surrey?

01:29:05.200 I would imagine text messages on my phone, but not people that I'm familiar with.

01:29:10.900 Did you ever interact with Jeremy McKenzie while you were in Ottawa?

01:29:14.360 I did not, no.

01:29:15.240 Did you know who Mr. McKenzie was during the protests?

01:29:20.360 I became aware of Mr. McKenzie during the protest.

01:29:24.780 Just know that he was a veteran.

01:29:27.400 And we did a lot of work with the veterans when we were here.

01:29:29.680 Although I'd never seen Jeremy that I know of, I met a lot of people during,

01:29:35.160 but I don't recall meeting him or seeing him, or I've never spoke with him to.

01:29:38.920 Were you familiar with the group Diagalon during the protests?

01:29:42.600 Yes.

01:29:43.140 What did you...

01:29:43.520 Well, not, sorry, not during the protest, afterwards.

01:29:48.180 My knowledge of Diaglona, it's a fictional, it's a meme.

01:29:52.200 It was something that Jeremy made up to troll, online troll.

01:30:00.060 Have you spoken with Mr. McKenzie since the protests?

01:30:02.640 I have not.

01:30:06.460 Coming near to the end of our time, so I just have a few more questions for you.

01:30:09.600 And it's our understanding that after the Emergencies Act was invoked, you were one of the people who had their bank accounts frozen, is that correct?

01:30:19.220 Yes.

01:30:19.740 Can you tell the commission what that meant for you and what that was like?

01:30:23.720 Well, my bank accounts were frozen, I believe, on the day I was arrested, on the February 17th.

01:30:29.620 My corporate accounts, as well as my joint accounts, were frozen for the weekend, unfrozen, I believe, the Monday.

01:30:37.060 my toronto dominion bank account was frozen for upwards of three and a half months

01:30:42.920 and how did that impact you i learned how to use cash again

01:30:48.900 and you mentioned already that you were arrested on february 17th i was yes okay how has the arrest

01:30:57.740 affected your life uh they i guess they kind of caught us off guard they were really professional

01:31:04.820 and really good to work with.

01:31:06.560 I can't say a bad thing about anyone.

01:31:09.120 I was walking with my son and three other of the road captains.

01:31:13.680 So if you Google my name and the arrest,

01:31:16.020 you'll see a photo of me grinning.

01:31:18.480 My son was there.

01:31:19.520 He was 18 years old at the time.

01:31:21.220 And I looked over at him and seen him.

01:31:24.140 That look he had as a six-year-old or seven-year-old kid

01:31:28.280 where the tears were welling up, he was scared.

01:31:31.220 And so I simply just said, hey, bud, you're good.

01:31:33.880 and grin like that and they caught me on camera of course and everything's been

01:31:39.220 good since it's just changed quite a bit what's changed well criminal charges now

01:31:44.680 and I've never never had criminal charges I've never been in trouble with

01:31:49.240 the law before and one final question for you is there anything that you think

01:31:54.640 it's important for the Commission to hear that we haven't touched on we've

01:31:58.960 touched all the bases the truth is here I have nothing to hide as far as I know

01:32:04.420 we were doing everything within the law according to legal counsel that was my

01:32:11.200 main primary goals thank you those are my questions thank you

01:32:16.800 Okay, so we have the cross-examinations to go ahead.

01:32:28.080 The government of Canada, I think, is up first.

01:32:31.780 Oh, this should be good.

01:32:37.840 Who's the scapegoat going to be?

01:32:40.440 Tamara or Pat King or Jeremy McKenzie?

01:32:45.000 Here it comes.

01:32:46.800 This applies to all of us, I assume.

01:32:50.020 The note about the translators, the reminder for the translators still here.

01:32:54.340 Good morning. Good morning. My name is Andrew Gibbs, and I'm part of the Council team for the Government of Canada. Mr. Gibbs.

01:33:04.680 So we've heard a fair bit of testimony this morning about the the start of the

01:33:10.220 the convoy and the general organization

01:33:13.880 and the factions or divisions within the groups that preceded.

01:33:19.040 Is that fair?

01:33:20.140 Correct.

01:33:21.680 So the spark, as I understand it,

01:33:24.780 was you and Ms. Belton meeting over TikTok.

01:33:30.280 Yes.

01:33:32.380 And you eventually organized with others to come to Ottawa

01:33:38.040 to drop the border mandates yes and that was your sole objective that was my personal sole

01:33:45.540 objective yes so to be clear then the others that eventually joined or started participating may

01:33:52.840 have had other goals and objectives quite possibly yes and you're aware of some of those goals and

01:33:57.920 objectives there was a lot going on but yes for the most part for example canada unity was seeking

01:34:05.000 to sign the MOU that the Commission Council spoke to you about?

01:34:08.500 Yes.

01:34:09.680 And others were seeking to, I'll say overthrow,

01:34:15.140 but replace the government of Canada?

01:34:18.100 My understanding when it comes to the MOU,

01:34:20.440 and I think that was the only thing that ever came up,

01:34:23.040 was the fact that there was something in the MOU that said,

01:34:26.780 and not necessarily overthrow,

01:34:28.320 but hold the government accountable, apparently.

01:34:30.780 And like I said before, I've never read the MOU.

01:34:32.880 That was never anything that we came to Ottawa for.

01:34:36.780 That was not even on the cards, and if anybody came to me stating that,

01:34:40.200 I would have promptly told them to go home.

01:34:44.140 I think you had mentioned you attended a Facebook Live interview?

01:34:49.520 Yes.

01:34:50.520 And Pat King was hosting it?

01:34:55.920 Yes.

01:34:56.600 And I believe the MOU was presented during that?

01:35:00.960 Yes, correct.

01:35:01.620 And do you recall Pat King saying that the objective was to tell the government who's in control?

01:35:10.840 He could have, yes.

01:35:11.980 And to give them pink slips?

01:35:14.820 Possibly.

01:35:16.440 And a pink slip you would understand as removing them from their jobs, firing them essentially?

01:35:21.960 I can't speak for Mr. King, but possibly.

01:35:24.660 Okay.

01:35:25.260 Okay. Now, as the group started joining you, I think we saw one TikTok video where you mentioned that this is, and I believe your testimony as well today was that never expected this level of participation in your wildest dreams.

01:35:42.580 No.

01:35:43.520 So many, many people joined this protest.

01:35:46.720 Yes.

01:35:47.760 And in fact, it became a multi-purpose protest.

01:35:52.660 I guess so. I stayed with my original beliefs of the border mandates.

01:35:58.760 That was the one that affected me the most.

01:36:01.100 That was the reason why I got involved.

01:36:04.600 All the other mandates in place that I had issues were provincial mandates,

01:36:08.200 so it really had no relevance here in Ottawa.

01:36:11.400 But some people in the group seem to think they did.

01:36:15.780 I guess so. Like I said, I can only speak for myself,

01:36:18.980 and then my primary goal was border mandates.

01:36:21.300 Okay. And so, during the Facebook Live, Mr. Bowder suggests that there will be a number of events that occur.

01:36:38.100 And in fact, in addition to the Facebook Live, which was referenced at COM50829, there's a separate video where you and the other organizers, Ms. Belton, Mr. Bowder, and Mr. King, are interviewed by Benita Peterson.

01:37:00.020 Do you recall that interview?

01:37:01.220 I don't recall that.

01:37:02.800 Okay.

01:37:03.140 Anyway, it's in the record at COM 50838 and during that interview, and we can bring it

01:37:17.300 up if you like, it again is a lengthy interview, over an hour and a half long, but it does

01:37:24.520 speak to the activities or events that Mr. Bowder proposes to have.

01:37:32.720 He also shares the MOU again and suggests that one of the events will be to present

01:37:39.720 that MOU to the Government of Canada or representatives thereof.

01:37:50.440 The last point that I would make, just with respect to that video, but I'll move on to

01:37:57.320 basic idea here that um there were as you say a number of factions or groups that were involved

01:38:05.480 yes yes okay and you didn't have a vetting procedure to check who was going to be there

01:38:10.840 we did not this was a purely organic

01:38:16.440 and so as the announcements and the invitations started to come the convoy that was planned um

01:38:24.520 with Mr. Bowder's logistics, started to catch fire?

01:38:30.220 Yes.

01:38:32.740 And you'd mentioned that all truckers are different?

01:38:35.720 Yes, very much so.

01:38:37.080 And it's a bit like herding cats?

01:38:39.120 Yes.

01:38:39.920 And if you put 200 in the room,

01:38:41.860 somebody's going to get a black eye or a broken nose?

01:38:44.180 Primarily, yes.

01:38:45.180 How many did you bring to Ottawa?

01:38:47.800 Oh, many.

01:38:48.340 Like I said, there would have been 2,500 vehicles in the west convoy.

01:38:55.320 There was convoys from the east, convoys from the south.

01:38:58.480 There was convoys.

01:39:00.040 I don't know the numbers on how many people were here.

01:39:03.400 It was a lot.

01:39:04.180 On the weekends, it was very, very busy.

01:39:07.220 It was very busy.

01:39:08.260 And is it fair to say that you couldn't control them all?

01:39:10.420 Absolutely, I could not control them all.

01:39:12.200 is it also uh not correct that you had a large flag on the back of your truck i had a i had a

01:39:23.040 yeah it was a billboard sign i believe and what did it say i don't remember it's hanging on the

01:39:29.960 wall in my shop right now but it's something about mandates i would imagine i don't remember

01:39:34.240 if you could refresh my memory if you have it well um you i believe that perhaps you'll agree

01:39:40.500 with me that there were many flags around town with the message F Trudeau yes I didn't have a

01:39:47.480 on the back of the bunk of the truck I have a decal there that says that I did not have a flag

01:39:54.040 on my tractor that had that on it okay so there was a decal on your truck with that slogan yeah

01:40:00.560 a smaller decal up on the back of the bunk and would you agree that that became a bit of a rallying

01:40:05.360 cry yes i was surprised to see how many it was um yeah there was a lot all the way across the

01:40:13.280 country yes and were there other messages against the liberals i think it was just that as far as i

01:40:19.780 remember okay i've seen a better uh rendition of it the other day by the way my thoughts have kind

01:40:28.440 of changed on that a little bit i've seen a young kid a couple days ago that said hi to me and he

01:40:33.240 had a a truck trudeau shirt on same underlying message but probably a little more politically

01:40:41.200 corrected right but understood by the crowd as being the same message i would have assumed

01:40:46.540 and encouraging children to share that message it was a child that had it so okay this lawyer 0.93

01:40:53.140 is a goof he's a goof um he's a dweeb he's an actual one encouraging children to share that 0.80

01:41:01.660 message you had mentioned uh to commission council that you were frustrated with the mandates 0.98

01:41:07.660 correct and you're you were i believe your testimony was that you were very angry yes

01:41:13.080 and uh did this protest and convoy and general uh sentiment that you and ms belton started

01:41:23.620 did that inspire others yes it did of course

01:41:28.200 as part of your group um and this when i see your group i'm referring specifically to the

01:41:40.280 freedom convoy 2022 i think it's you and ms belton at one point and ms leach yes and mr bolton by

01:41:47.740 about or sorry by that point is outside of the group he was always canada unity i don't believe

01:41:54.940 Maybe he was ever part of Freedom Con by 20.

01:41:58.600 And Mr. King has been kind of pushed to the side of it?

01:42:02.160 He was separate, yeah.

01:42:02.980 Yeah, okay.

01:42:03.960 He still has a large following?

01:42:05.780 Yes, I believe so.

01:42:07.160 Okay.

01:42:09.300 And I think we heard reference to a video about social media on TikTok

01:42:16.240 where Mr. King was attributed as saying that Mr. Trudeau was going to catch a bullet.

01:42:23.480 Do you recall that?

01:42:24.060 I heard about it, yes. I'm not sure if I've ever seen it or not.

01:42:28.020 Okay, perhaps I can show it to you now.

01:42:31.100 If we were to bring up, Mr. Clerk, OPS 407967.

01:42:43.640 And I'd like to just play the first 20 seconds of it.

01:42:48.880 It goes on.

01:42:53.340 Trudeau?

01:42:54.060 someone's going to make you catch a bullet one day to the rest of this government someone's 1.00

01:42:58.940 going to fucking do you zin you sons of bitches the only way that and i'm going to say it out 1.00

01:43:04.260 loud the only way that this is going to be solved is with bullets and yeah i said it that's the 1.00

01:43:09.520 only way something's going to happen of context revolution on

01:43:13.160 thank you now i believe you suggested that mr king had told you previously in a conversation

01:43:23.960 that this was edited and taken out of context?

01:43:26.620 He did, yes.

01:43:27.540 And you will agree that it came to light during the protest?

01:43:31.860 Yes.

01:43:32.560 I believe the second part of that video,

01:43:34.740 my understanding with that was that that was from a previous post,

01:43:38.540 something to do with Indigenous lockdowns

01:43:41.560 or Indigenous protests somewhere else in the country

01:43:43.900 where that bullet comment came from. 0.76

01:43:46.360 Right.

01:43:46.740 But it was posted during the convoy?

01:43:49.420 It was, yes, I believe.

01:43:50.360 Okay.

01:43:50.620 And you yourself admitted, I believe, to commission counsel that being a bit of an internet troll?

01:43:58.480 Yes, sir. 0.97

01:43:58.980 And having previously posted nasty, racist, and anti-Muslim content? 0.96

01:44:03.700 Regretfully so, yes.

01:44:05.340 And you have a significant following now?

01:44:09.020 On the TikTok, I do, yes.

01:44:10.780 Yes. And Mr. King also has a significant following?

01:44:14.060 Mr. King, I believe, due to his conditions, isn't allowed on social media.

01:44:18.800 At the time?

01:44:19.480 At the time, I think he had a significant following on Facebook.

01:44:23.500 I don't think he was on TikTok.

01:44:26.660 And we saw a discussion between you and Ms. Leach, referred to by Commission Council,

01:44:31.740 where you and Ms. Leach discussed the need to keep him around, if possible, because of his following.

01:44:38.500 Apparently, yes.

01:44:40.840 Okay.

01:44:41.220 So, you're aware that the Freedom Convoy group, this would be your group, put out daily briefings?

01:44:56.560 Yes.

01:44:57.200 And these daily briefings, did you have input into them?

01:45:02.380 Not very often, no.

01:45:04.160 My job was literally out with the trucks on a regular basis.

01:45:09.040 I would come sit in at the end of the day and have conversations with other people in the group to get.

01:45:15.480 But I don't remember being—I remember being at the first news conference.

01:45:19.420 I remember telling Ms. Leach that I didn't want to be the one in front of the camera,

01:45:23.140 but I would be the one that stood beside the one at the camera.

01:45:25.900 And that was the only time I was—I think I did a couple, but I was always sitting off to the side.

01:45:32.320 My job was truck safety, truck issues, making sure everybody was looked after.

01:45:39.040 looked after in terms of fuel and mechanics and fuel mechanics if any issues arose working with

01:45:46.200 the police that was my my main job was working with law enforcement okay and would you agree

01:45:53.840 that the daily updates the purpose of those was to inform the participants in your group

01:45:58.400 of the daily events i believe so yes and it was circulated each day i believe so yes and it would

01:46:07.580 be circulated in the morning presumably that i can't weather for the day okay so if we can turn

01:46:13.320 to hrf seven zeros nine and this should be um dated january 28th if i'm not mistaken

01:46:25.420 does this look like one of the updates that the freedom convoy 2022 group would have circulated

01:46:36.260 it could have i don't really remember reading any of them okay well um we'll just walk through it

01:46:44.880 briefly um because there are a few of them that i'd like to bring to your attention

01:46:48.420 this one is dated january 28th it provides that the saturday weather is sunny low minus 21 etc

01:46:56.020 for sunday monday tuesday wednesday and then it's giving the general update on the overview

01:47:01.460 You see the overview paragraph there will be the biggest protest movement in Canada ever.

01:47:06.860 Would you agree with that?

01:47:07.900 Yes.

01:47:09.040 And if you scroll to item eight, I just want to bring this to your attention

01:47:14.940 because I believe you said earlier that the only purpose of this, your group, Freedom Convoy 2022,

01:47:20.900 was to end the border mandate.

01:47:23.400 I noted that was my personal mandate.

01:47:25.700 That was myself.

01:47:26.840 I don't speak for everyone on the group.

01:47:28.280 So I didn't have anything to do with these drafts.

01:47:31.460 on a on a daily basis i was i was purely here for the mandates okay so is there somebody we

01:47:38.160 should be speaking to with respect to these daily updates i'm not even sure who produced these on a

01:47:43.920 daily basis i can't speak to that i uh like i said i was out i literally got out of bed at seven

01:47:49.540 o'clock in the morning every morning if not earlier it was out with the trucks the end

01:47:52.920 slow down please the entire day i was uh i was on the ground the entire time at the end of the day

01:48:01.640 if something urgent arose i didn't take part in any of these updates so you'd agree that you were

01:48:10.580 one of the faces of the freedom convoy 2022 agreed yes with the largest social media presence

01:48:16.520 that could be contested i'm not sure i yeah by others in the power struggle presumably

01:48:23.540 could have been yes okay so item eight states of note deputy prime minister and finance minister

01:48:31.800 christia freeland is on the board of trustees for the world economic forum she is a key figure there

01:48:38.560 along with president xi of china bill gates and other globalists it was the global economic forum

01:48:46.020 that started it is 2030 you will own nothing that stated sorry it is 2030 you will own nothing and

01:48:54.640 you will be happy it should be had you heard this message before i've seen it on social media before

01:48:59.520 i didn't like i said i never read this document so i don't know what would be in it okay um

01:49:06.400 there are a series of these daily briefings often making reference to the world economic forum

01:49:14.280 And there is one at HRF 5-0-29 on February 8th that refers to at the top.

01:49:34.520 Can we pull that one up, please?

01:49:36.100 again this is february 8th and there's an image of the covet 19 the great reset is from the world

01:49:50.960 economic forum deputy prime minister freeland is on the board of trustees of the wef where is he

01:49:57.000 going with this had you heard of the great reset before via social media posts more so in the last

01:50:04.960 six months i don't recall seeing that or even hearing about it at the time and what is the

01:50:12.580 nature of uh your understanding of this book the great reset i have never read it okay if you'll

01:50:19.700 scroll to um the bottom of this there's a reference a section that deals with um

01:50:25.360 um the uh if you go to the next page

01:50:31.780 tow trucks refusing service you see that section yes according to ottawa city manager steve

01:50:40.920 kanalakos who testified earlier about the difficulty of obtaining tow trucks to the

01:50:45.900 commission all tow truck companies under contract to the city of ottawa are refusing to provide

01:50:51.260 heavy tow truck services this has been sorry this has been a common occurrence right across

01:50:59.920 canada as tow truck operators are considering their long-term relationships with the trucking

01:51:08.020 industry as well as the canadian public is that consistent with your understanding i believe so

01:51:15.840 Yes.

01:51:16.600 Thank you.

01:51:23.300 If we now turn to February 16th at HRF 6052,

01:51:33.780 and this is the second-to-last daily update I'll bring you to,

01:51:38.340 this one begins with a photograph of prime minister trudeau with world economic forum

01:51:50.000 leader klaus schwab where is he going with this and underneath there's a description of a video

01:51:57.440 of klaus schwab describing trudeau's loyalty to the world economic forum

01:52:05.520 is this guy the government lawyer or ours has emerged world economic forum leader klaus schwab

01:52:12.220 describing trudeau's loyalty to this globalist organization the video appears to have been taken

01:52:20.960 in 2016 just after trudeau became the prime minister do you see that yes and if we scroll

01:52:31.260 to the bottom there's a twitter link there uh with the no number one waffler um if we scroll

01:52:39.200 to the bottom it ends with a photo of deputy prime minister christia freeland

01:52:44.960 yes do you see that photo i do yes and the caption reads finance minister freeland

01:52:53.400 seen here at a world economic forum event says the government can arbitrarily seize bank accounts

01:53:00.980 crowdfunding money and cryptocurrencies now this is issued on february 16th this newsletter

01:53:10.620 to your group the the the faction of freedom convoy 2022 correct yes

01:53:18.300 On February 17th, another post is issued, HRF 6083, which is a special notice issued by the group.

01:53:37.660 just to note uh you're uh out of time but did you know if you'll be much longer yeah where

01:53:49.280 are you going with this five minutes on these two points sir and they'll tie the two together

01:53:54.620 okay time thank you let's see what you got you have your notes you have the post and this is a

01:54:00.800 Freedom Convoy 2022 reaffirms its commitment

01:54:05.260 to peaceful demonstration, correct?

01:54:09.100 Yes.

01:54:10.540 And in this notice, you'll see that it expressly condemns,

01:54:17.020 if we scroll down, one, two, three, fourth paragraph,

01:54:22.900 Pat King does not speak for us.

01:54:25.200 We expressly condemn any talk of violence from him or others.

01:54:30.800 do you see that yes and that accurately reflects your views at that time i again i had nothing to

01:54:37.500 do with this document so it would have been inside the meetings i would assume but in terms of your

01:54:42.440 views of pat king yes that's an accurate statement from your perspective yes and also talk of violence

01:54:49.520 from him or others yes were you aware sir that the night before on february 16th following the

01:54:59.380 other notice with the photograph of christia freeland at the bottom that deputy prime minister

01:55:04.980 freeland received a death threat i was not no so if we can turn to pb.can four zeros one seven five

01:55:15.180 seven underscore rel

01:55:17.460 this guy is really reaching here

01:55:37.780 and again you had said earlier your testimony here today is that you had no control over

01:55:42.200 the people who had come to the protest at in response to your open invitation correct

01:55:48.920 and so have you seen this email before i have not no it's sent on wednesday february 16th at 1 23 pm

01:56:03.480 to christia freeland mp and it reads i declare war on all the canadian government for lying 0.85

01:56:12.120 about covid 19 christia freeland will get a bullet to the head prepare to feel our wrath 0.84

01:56:20.480 yours truly the canadian covid government resistance we will visit you at your home 0.94

01:56:28.900 this friday at 6 p.m so you better be hidden and be placed into protection because we know

01:56:36.080 where you live larry jenkins signed larry jenkins never heard of the guy i assume you would

01:56:42.060 reject this statement in any such action unequivocally yes thank you is he trying to

01:56:49.640 tie that letter to barber in the question then is were you aware sir that on february 16th the same

01:56:56.860 day, the OPP apprehended someone in Ottawa who was wearing body armor and carrying a

01:57:08.120 large knife along with other knives, a sword, and machetes that were seized out of his truck.

01:57:16.080 I was not aware of that, no.

01:57:17.600 Okay.

01:57:18.120 I will take you to OPS 3011837.

01:57:23.600 Mr. Commissioner, I understand my friend's out of time, and this witness has testified several times.

01:57:30.240 He has no knowledge of these things, so I'm wondering what the purpose of this is other than grandstanding.

01:57:37.100 Yeah, I'm not sure this is hugely helpful in the sense that he can't comment on any of these,

01:57:43.100 but maybe you can just file it for the moment and try it on someone else when you have some time.

01:57:49.420 Thank you, sir.

01:57:50.200 So the last question then is, would you agree with me that when you start a fire and fan the flames, it can get out of control?

01:58:00.000 And you have no control over those other factions who had come to this protest.

01:58:05.740 That's where I spent a lot of time on the ground.

01:58:09.080 I spent a lot of time working with people that were with the original convoy from the West and with people that were not with the West.

01:58:16.400 if somebody had a concern i said it on more than one occasion on my videos if anybody has a problem

01:58:22.320 if anybody wants to yell at somebody find my number and phone me and yell at me i will gladly

01:58:28.700 take it um the last thing i ever wanted was a letter like that i'd never i've heard that story

01:58:33.940 up until now understood and i believe sir that you'd also confirmed that dude you had your last

01:58:38.880 question we're not always successful in your efforts to convince the participants to agree

01:58:43.660 which you are to follow.

01:58:44.600 Agreed.

01:58:45.040 It's over.

01:58:45.560 Thank you.

01:58:45.960 Those are my questions.

01:58:47.800 Okay.

01:58:48.440 So that takes us, I think, to the morning break.

01:58:51.680 So we'll take a little time.

01:58:53.760 And so we'll take 15 minutes and continue on the return.

01:59:01.700 The Commission is in recess for 15 minutes.

01:59:03.800 La Commission levé pour qu'est-ce minute.

01:59:09.480 Okay.

01:59:13.660 I, guys, I've got to be honest with you here.

01:59:16.840 This last lawyer, this government lawyer,

01:59:19.460 took way too much time trying to make his point,

01:59:23.180 which I still don't quite understand.

01:59:25.100 I think maybe he was trying to tie the lone wolf

01:59:28.260 to the entire mass of the Freedom Convoy,

01:59:32.620 and particularly, I suppose, to Chris Barber, Big Red,

01:59:36.240 doing a great job up there,

01:59:39.340 answering those questions as truthfully and humbly

01:59:42.180 as he possibly could um one second

01:59:48.380 good morning benita how are you doing

01:59:52.920 yeah i'm just kind of finishing up my first uh video here so i'm gonna have to go but can i call

02:00:03.200 you back okay thanks yeah benita peterson got a shout out from the lawyer this morning like that

02:00:13.400 that guy i mean why would the government put that guy up there to ramble on and on and on as he did

02:00:22.680 and the world economic forum stuff i mean all he did was

02:00:28.640 make more people aware of it like did he actually tie any of that to anything

02:00:37.820 that was a complete a complete joke so later on what's going to happen is the commission is going

02:00:49.380 to hear i think there's going to be more questions for chris for big red and then what's going to 0.99

02:00:56.820 happen is we're going to have bridget belton i think is going to take the stand today

02:01:02.880 maybe steve charland keith wilson and tom marazzo tomorrow so i'm going to stay with this guys this

02:01:12.600 afternoon for the second part of the uh of the inquiry and then i will have a show tonight for

02:01:22.920 you at eight o'clock and um what else oh right i wanted to remind you of thursday night show

02:01:32.760 it's going to be a really cool show harley schlanger from the larouche organization and

02:01:40.120 the Schiller Institute is going to be my guest and in case you haven't ever seen anything from

02:01:48.040 Harley I suggest go and watch some of the stuff he puts out he puts out a daily update through

02:01:55.280 LaRouche organization's Facebook page every single day YouTube as well and usually the videos maybe

02:02:02.140 10 minutes seven they're shorter videos and in these videos he is explaining everything that's

02:02:10.000 going on in the world right now from the reasons for the war in ukraine to the current economy

02:02:17.540 to where we're heading he knows it all and he does have solutions for it but once again

02:02:26.480 everybody's solution is ultimately the same right the solution is that we all have to stand together

02:02:36.340 unite and say no peaceful non-compliance we also have to take care of ourselves

02:02:44.380 we have to protect our personal wealth if the great reset actually does happen

02:02:49.200 and i think they're going to try and and make it happen we we just need to wake more people up and

02:02:57.580 stand next to each other in solidarity against all of this nonsense do i stand with ukraine

02:03:04.280 no not the government i stand with the people i stand with the people of russia i stand with

02:03:11.820 the people of canada and the united states but these governments they're so out of control

02:03:17.580 and we have to let them know this i think the time has come for all of that

02:03:23.960 am i suggesting now that that government lawyer could take what i just said are you threatening

02:03:31.080 violence sir of course i'm not threatening violence it's time for us to let them know

02:03:38.780 that the time has come that's it okay so the public hearings are going to resume shortly

02:03:46.040 I'm going to say in about 10 or 15 minutes,

02:03:48.240 I'm going to end this stream right now, you guys.

02:03:50.280 I'll come back and put up a new stream in another, well, 10 or 15 minutes.

02:03:54.780 And there will be a brand-new show tonight at 8 o'clock Central,

02:03:58.220 the Shadow at Night regular show.

02:04:00.000 Okay, so I'll see you in a few minutes.

02:04:02.000 Bye for now.

The Shadoe Davis Show - November 01, 2022

Shadoe at Nite Special Edition Tues. Nov 1st⧸2022

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