00:00:00.000everybody welcome to shadow at night this is monday december the 13th 2021 and on the show
00:00:04.880tonight former winnipeg police officer james erskine is going to join he's going to talk all about
00:00:10.560um well what's been going on in the world the past couple of years from a unique perspective
00:00:16.000a police officer's perspective i've been waiting to talk to james for a couple of months we first
00:00:22.240connected a couple of months ago and i'm very happy to have him on the show tonight uh in case
00:00:27.200you missed it james was also on the show what's up canada on friday so if you guys follow that
00:00:32.800here on facebook you can go check out that interview with james as well he's going to
00:00:36.320join the show in just a couple of minutes i just wanted to talk quickly about the gray cup yesterday
00:00:43.200i didn't watch the game because you guys know how i feel based upon the uh the video i did
00:00:49.840yesterday probably and also because i've been talking about not wanting to support an organization
00:00:55.600that supports well quite frankly discrimination segregation and bigotry as well and i don't know
00:01:04.160how these organizations are going to win the faith of people to get them back through the doors once
00:01:09.600this whole thing is over and we have won and guys we are going to win this so let's have a look at
00:01:17.440the stories and there's another one too that i want to bring up it's anecdotal i wasn't there
00:01:23.120but i did see some pictures posted on social media today the tv ratings for the 108th gray cup
00:01:29.600in hamilton yesterday down by 22 percent now everything i've heard about that game yesterday
00:01:39.040says that it was a fantastic game and you probably should have tuned in for this game you got the two
00:01:43.040best teams in the league blah blah blah blah blah but yet the ratings are down 22 and i thought wow
00:01:49.200that number kind of correlates with another number we've been hearing about another cross
00:01:54.080canada number we've been hearing about for the past couple of months you know jabbed versus
00:02:00.880non-jabbed jab free that number is sitting like if you look at the whole country's statistics not
00:02:07.440just manitoba but if you look at the whole country's statistics you're talking about
00:02:11.44022% of people who have not yet gotten the thing because they just don't want it or because they're medically unable or because they believe it's going to hurt them or because they believe in their right to choose and they may have dug their heels in on that issue.
00:02:32.940It's any number of things. My hope is that we can join all of those people together, the people who have decided that they don't want it for whatever reason it happens to be.
00:02:43.760So we can become a unified movement with a very loud voice in this country that is going to make people think before they make a snide comment, before they look down on somebody who has decided not to get it.
00:02:56.460and more importantly for governments across this country and for corporations who operate in every
00:03:02.300province in this country to understand that they are hurting their bottom lines with the actions
00:03:08.300they're taking right now and let's not forget that in the years to come and i hate to say this because
00:03:14.100the wheels of justice turn slowly but i believe that courts will find in the next 18 to 24 months
00:03:20.760maybe longer, that all of these mandates that have been imposed have been illegal and they go
00:03:26.700against the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is, of course,
00:03:32.040enshrined in our Constitution. All you need to do is look at Section 52 of the Constitution Act
00:03:38.340to see for yourself that that is the Constitution, the supreme law of Canada, period, bar none.
00:03:46.600there is nothing nothing at all that can supersede the constitution of this country
00:03:51.720the only thing any government may have to fight back with is section one of the charter of rights
00:03:57.560and freedoms where if they can demonstrably prove in a free and open society that what they've done
00:04:05.000outweighs the cost to society then a judge might find that these governments have done the right
00:04:12.120thing. And if a judge does find that based upon all the scientific evidence that will be revealed
00:04:17.920in a case like that, you can bet that judge was paid off. Just my opinion, of course.
00:04:25.840The Blue Bombers, having won the Grey Cup yesterday, are not going to be having a parade
00:04:30.500because of all of the existing health regulations in place right now. So they are going to have
00:04:35.600a big party that's coming up at IGF in a few days. And guess what? It's going to be free of charge
00:04:40.980to all of those people who can show proof of vaccination.
00:04:46.560So once again, you're being left out in the cold.
00:06:47.780The feds have yet to introduce a bill or any written regulation
00:06:51.480with a legal text of vaccination orders.
00:06:53.500They're doing it in a very sneaky, underhanded way.
00:06:57.020We have already established that on this show and other shows like this.
00:07:00.720Immunization is not mandatory in Canada, Department of Health lawyers wrote in a 1996 Canadian National Report on Immunization. It cannot be made mandatory because of the Canadian Constitution.
00:07:16.900And all of the measures they've taken to ensure immunization, the coercion, the bribery, all of that stuff they've done over the past year.
00:07:28.820Can that not be seen as making it mandatory when somebody loses their job?
00:18:37.620and um some some of the laws that you know i could name that i that i don't particularly like i i
00:18:45.580still you know when required i i still uphold them and it has to be a very egregious serious
00:18:54.520breach of of a charter um charter violation and of people's rights for for police to say
00:19:02.300hold on a second here that that's immoral unethical you know to to look at a superior officer
00:19:07.680and and say this is wrong is not just a it's not just a flippant thing you don't just
00:19:13.580you don't just you know flippantly say no I don't want to do that this I don't want to I want to I
00:19:18.600want to pick this rule and that rule and that rule to to uphold you really really have to consider
00:19:24.360what the heck is going on and we're given a lot of discretion as cops and it's it's always been
00:19:31.260my goal to wield that discretion with um a lot of a lot of as much insight as i can get
00:19:38.940into the the totality of the circumstances and um i would say that this has crossed a serious
00:19:47.100serious rubicon in not just our province and our city but the our country across the world
00:19:53.600we've we've crossed this weird weird uh boundary that no one no one seems to be turning away from
00:20:02.880i always i always think about um you know leadership if you're if you've got somebody
00:20:09.000who's reading a map and he's got a compass and the the entire time they've they've been you've0.92
00:20:15.720been traveling for three days and you find out this this moron has got the compass turned upside0.98
00:20:20.760down and is going south when he should be going north you know what what do you have to do you0.99
00:20:25.960have to say hey man you're going the wrong way right and and the and the last thing that you
00:20:30.340should do is take a single more step further south if you're supposed to have been going north
00:20:34.860but here we are and we've got um you know we've got health canada that has decided that these
00:20:41.060tests that they've been using to quantify this emergency are are invalid and and useless
00:20:49.300and then they've said okay we'll use these invalid useless tests for another number of months
00:20:54.620and you know you at some point in time you just have to look at them and say hey turn around0.87
00:21:00.420you're going the wrong way you idiot right and and that's where we are and and you know i'm not0.59
00:21:07.220saying that to my specifically to my superior officers but i am respectfully and uh diligently0.99
00:21:14.940recently i've been saying this is wrong and here's why it's wrong and one of the things that
00:21:21.380i think let me ask you how the chain of command operates within the police service where do the
00:21:27.300orders come down and the reason i ask that is because um it seems like certain people have
00:21:32.180been targeted not by police but by government officials we're talking about possibly mlas
00:21:38.520maybe some government bureaucrats regarding rallies or whatnot we've seen uh those people
00:21:44.180get arrested we've seen those people get an inordinate amount of tickets as compared to
00:21:49.020somebody else who may have attended a rally we've seen i think plainclothes officers i'm not sure
00:21:54.400if they're manitoba justice winnipeg police rcmp or what in the crowd taking pictures of faces
00:22:00.100when you get an order or when the winnipeg police gets in order does it come down from
00:22:04.640a government official and then work its way through the chain well i i'm honestly not privy
00:22:12.360to a lot of the ins and outs but i mean i would i would imagine that there's plenty of
00:22:17.020talking back and forth between uh the executive and usually it's going to be danny smythe and
00:22:23.500and um you know the chief and and his his immediate deputies and that kind of thing
00:22:28.740um and i would imagine there's quite a lot of conversations that go on that i would never be
00:22:36.740privy to so what the what the exact agenda is i i don't know but you know you you see those
00:22:43.460techniques i've employed those type of techniques right you you get you know it's a different
00:22:49.440scenario but you you walk into a bar where there's been a bar fight and now like all the lights are
00:22:54.900back on and there's broken glass all over the floor and everybody's kind of clearing out but
00:22:57.960there's one loudmouth who's over in the corner just drunk and won't just realize hey man like
00:23:03.260go go home you know get a six-pack for the for for drinking on the on the couch kind of thing and
00:23:09.480and and relax right but he's just got to go go go and so what do you do well that's the guy that
00:23:16.640ends up in the in the back of the cruiser car in the drunk tank because he won't you've got like
00:23:22.840in a certain sense it's making an example you know you you've you draw the line where somebody's
00:23:28.100standing up and and you have to say uh you know before the whole bar turns on you you have to say
00:23:35.940you you gotta you gotta go and you gotta you gotta stop and i i understand that that type of
00:23:41.100behavior the the question here though is well i don't even think it's a question i the scenario0.99
00:23:47.020here is that the person who's standing up isn't a drunken idiot at the back of the bar0.98
00:23:51.480it's a soccer mom or it's a it's a dad who's taking his kids to hockey or it's a pastor who's0.99
00:23:56.720trying to lead his congregation and uh there needs to be a very very clear um difference
00:24:04.020that's drawn in in your mind as a police officer when you're looking at those two two scenarios um
00:24:10.580i i believe that everybody is equal under the law but i also believe that um that the law needs to
00:24:19.160be exercised differently when when you have different scenarios well this is where the
00:24:25.960discretionary powers come into play correct I mean exactly you know if you're an officer and
00:24:31.120you go to this thing because you've been told to go by your superior officer and and you see
00:24:36.880these breaches of the mandates taking place do you have to hand out these tickets or can you say you0.98
00:24:44.720want to know what this is bullshit I'm not doing this this is ridiculous now as you say it's a0.99
00:24:48.660soccer mom. It's a pastor, like all law, but mostly all law abiding citizens, at least when0.99
00:24:53.660it comes to that situation, there may be other people in there who've done other things, but
00:24:57.760whatever. I mean, it's basically a gathering of a thousand people who are talking about
00:25:01.920their freedoms being at stake. They're talking about, um, not being able to go watch their kids
00:25:08.340play hockey when December 5th rolls around because of the vaccine mandate and they're,
00:25:12.880they're rallying for their freedoms. And what bothers me, I guess disturbs me more is that
00:25:17.800there's a police officer or maybe uh a justice official somebody who will walk into the crowd
00:25:23.280and not even see that yes yeah absolutely whether it's whether it's a crowd whether it's a
00:25:30.140you know why why it's happening all the all the time around the hall
00:25:35.320i mean the idea of bringing up a family and and and this is where we have to use our heads
00:25:41.680a family who loves one another is is not the same as as a concert it just isn't and and it's you
00:25:49.000know even if your family is 20 20 people it's not the same as a bar full of bar full of people and
00:25:53.780the idea of breaking a family up and saying you know this person can come but that person can't
00:25:59.100and it you know i i've i've i've had personal stories of of people uh who who three out of
00:26:05.900the four or four out of the five uh children could could meet their dying father in the hospital and
00:26:11.700the one left over had to stay in i think i think a lot of us here have have those kinds of stories
00:26:17.820and and when you're looking at that for for the fact of what it is you you have to be able to to
00:26:24.600step outside of the the the rule of law and and look at the spirit of the law and the spirit of
00:26:32.220the law isn't to destroy families and it isn't to wreck christmas dinner it isn't to stop a hockey
00:26:38.980game it's and it's and and those things are provably not the things that are causing causing
00:26:47.240issues in this this last couple of years all right there's a there's a whole bunch of people
00:26:52.880who have been asking because there's rumors flying around there could be another lockdown coming but
00:26:58.820only for the unvaccinated in the next few days uh they're doing their best it seems like to make
00:27:03.960sure that everybody goes ahead and and gets that jab for whatever reason i think they're trying to
00:27:09.120get to a hundred percent so can a police officer knock on somebody's door if somebody is snitched
00:27:17.320on them sure and um ask for proof of vaccination is that legal uh so a police any police officer
00:27:29.640can knock on your door to investigate a crime um you you you have to understand that
00:27:37.260a police a police officer cannot enter your house without a warrant except under certain
00:27:44.840very specific circumstances. If the police officer believes that there's going to be
00:27:49.800destruction of evidence going on, if the police officer believes that there's somebody who's
00:27:55.020in danger in there, it's called exigent circumstances. So for example, like a 911 call
00:28:05.440that's a hang-up would be considered exigent circumstances in most cases. So we don't know
00:28:11.720what the heck has gone on um but the in winnipeg the interesting thing is that the phone lines
00:28:18.520often dial 9-1-1 by themselves when it gets a little wet outside the something happens in the
00:28:23.660control box i have no idea how it works and the phones will dial 9-1-1 and i don't know why but
00:28:28.700we get that when it's when it's you know humid outside or when it's just rained and so the idea
00:28:36.860of a police officer you know after it's raining and there's been 12 911 hang-up calls going and
00:28:44.100starting to kick down all 12 of those doors is insane and the the idea of a police officer
00:28:52.040in my mind and this is just my personal belief uh going and getting a warrant because somebody
00:28:59.020said there's too many people at thanksgiving dinner is insane and i think i think that
00:29:04.180i could i couldn't fathom a judge issuing that that warrant um you know i've seen judges do
00:29:13.520some things that i i really i really am surprised at but most of the time i find them erring on the
00:29:21.940side of um giving less power to to the police than what the police are asking for um so my my
00:29:32.160response to that would be that the the police officer can't ask you questions to find out if
00:29:40.200you're guilty or not of an offense that that comes into your your charter rights in section 10 of the
00:29:45.860charter you've got the right on arrest and detention to be notified of your of your arrest
00:29:51.700the reason for your arrest and so when a police officer comes to investigate a crime that's a
00:29:56.580detention if if if if they're if they're trying to ask questions to uh get an answer to find out
00:30:05.440if if you're guilty of something that's an investigation and as soon as a police officer
00:30:09.560is investigating you uh you have the right to retain counsel you have the right to stop you
00:30:15.320have to be you have a right to be informed about whether or not you're going to be arrested if you
00:30:18.780answer and do all police officers know the law as well as you seem to
00:30:24.920short short answer is no and there's there's a there's a lot of different reasons for that
00:30:33.220um i think i think for the most part a lot of there's also excuses uh lawful excuses for a
00:30:42.620police officer doing the wrong thing if they genuinely believe that they're they're trying
00:30:48.020to do the right thing um it talks about that in the criminal code it talks about um that that's
00:30:54.120been decided a whole bunch of times in in case law when when a police officer is honestly trying to
00:31:00.640do the right thing and makes a mistake that's forgivable and there's a balance that that has
00:31:07.780to be there um and in fact in fact the there's actually a lawful test when when the police
00:31:16.860officer has breached somebody's charter rights uh in uh in court it's called the oaks test
00:31:23.040and it's it's a it's a question of whether those breaches were um were able to be justified and it
00:31:33.200really comes down to what you're talking about it's very similar to section one where you have
00:31:37.400it has to be demonstrably justified so there's different reasons why police officer wouldn't
00:31:42.540know the law as well one could be that they're a junior officer one could be that you know
00:31:47.740they're just not as good of an officer and I mean we we you know and and we have all different
00:31:55.920types and and you know one thing that I know is that is that the of the people that I work with
00:32:03.100the vast majority of them honestly want to do the right thing and you know that that being said you
00:32:11.960You need officers that are good, that know that line that we have to walk, where we do need to get people who are hurting people off the street, and we do need to do something about them.
00:32:26.120But we have to do it in a way that is, you know, the best way that we know how, the best way that we can find, that upholds the rule of law.
00:32:38.620so you know the short answer is some some cops won't know the law as well and and i don't know
00:32:46.200the law as well as some some other cops i mean i was never in homicide and those guys are very
00:32:51.960very good cops you know and uh but but i i always did do my best to try and learn everything that
00:33:01.440i could and i certainly have improved as a cop over my 11 years there's there's things that i
00:33:07.720did when i was a year or two on that i would never do now um and it's not it's not out of
00:33:13.460um you know becoming a you know it's not out of my morals changing it's out of a deeper
00:33:20.460understanding of of the law and how to how to make the law work for you instead of how to um
00:33:25.320you know get around it so to speak okay so there's three things i want to mention before we continue
00:33:31.040on first of all i love your hat uh thank you that is a bad it's just it's a local burger joint and
00:45:40.140next another day on the job i think i can see some police officers it's a sliding scale i can
00:45:52.640see some police officers reveling in that there's a very few that i can see doing that they're the
00:45:57.280kind of people who would you know ticket their grandma um for for you know going five over and
00:46:04.540and that's a that's a very small percentage and and i mean the thing i always say too is that
00:46:10.300police in general are going to are going to represent roughly the population uh whether
00:46:17.120in terms of in terms of opinion probably police are a little bit more on the conservative side
00:46:22.260than than a lot but you know you you've got um you're going to have a sliding scale of that and
00:46:29.340you're going to have people that are that are going to do it because they just don't want to
00:46:33.260either they don't think about it or they just don't want to make waves you're going to have
00:46:37.220people who do it but aren't happy about it you're going to be you're going to have police who have
00:46:41.900they refuse to do that um and you you i think i think people need really need to realize what it
00:46:50.840means for a police officer to refuse to do something um to refuse like an order uh or uh
00:46:58.680or to to uphold the law it's it's not a small thing it's a serious thing and and that that
00:47:05.760cop better be pretty damn sure that he's doing the right thing um because if if if we do let like
00:47:14.540this is this is that dangerous thing right because if we if we let police individually decide
00:47:20.000you know what laws to uphold we're in trouble um so so there's just there's there's such a line
00:47:27.280there that is very very difficult to to traverse but um i i do suspect that
00:47:35.200the worst things get the more police you're going to have that refuse to do it
00:47:40.560how serious is it when an officer gets hit with a charter breach
00:47:47.200uh a charter breach like let's say in court yeah like if if uh if a citizen decides that wait a
00:47:54.080a minute i was roughed up too much or a police officer stopped me from doing something and i
00:47:59.060look at the charter of rights and freedoms and go holy shit this is like the dude totally took0.91
00:48:03.880away my rights from me is that a serious thing for a cop to have to go through uh it it would0.86
00:48:10.580depend um so i always kind of joke that that you know i've i've unknowingly breached people's
00:48:20.640charter rights and it goes to that that whole you know a cop trying to do the right thing and making
00:48:24.960a mistake um there's also times when as a police officer you might knowingly do it but know that
00:48:32.320it's still the right thing to do and an example i always like to give people is let's say there's
00:48:37.980let's say there's a six-year-old boy who's kidnapped and he's kidnapped in one of those
00:48:44.260grid areas of the city and it's uh it's you know you know that the person who kidnapped him was on
00:48:51.860foot couldn't have gotten more than six or eight blocks and the police are able to absolutely lock
00:48:56.280that area down before it gets out of hand or before it's reasonable that that person has left
00:49:00.940that area so what are you going to be doing you're going to be searching every single car that's
00:49:07.220leaving that area and the reason is going to be that you need to get that six-year-old boy back
00:49:11.740and so every person that you're searching you don't have reasonable probable grounds for the
00:49:17.540thousand people that are inside that that square area to search their vehicle but it's imperative
00:49:25.620that you get that six-year-old boy back now let's say uh one of the officers while he's searching
00:49:30.360there finds a trunk full of cocaine are you going to now wave that person through and say okay carry
00:49:36.580on with your cocaine sir we're not looking for the cocaine we're looking for a six-year-old boy
00:49:39.820No, you still you still stop the cocaine. Now, your search hasn't hasn't been the intention of your search wasn't to find cocaine. But it also wasn't a fair search under the charter in terms of of that specific person, you having reasonable probable grounds to search them.
00:50:00.660but uh case law would dictate that it's it's a it's reasonable and the evidence would likely
00:50:08.020stand you know again i'm not a judge either but the evidence would likely stand up in court because
00:50:13.080you know the the totality of the circumstances you're not your goal isn't your goal isn't to
00:50:20.200walk over all over that person's charter rights your goal is to get a boy to safety so
00:50:26.640that's the same test that this is all going to go through in court um and that's the same
00:50:31.760you know and there's going to be the same amount of for an officer there's going to be the same
00:50:36.660amount of weight put on it and um so if if that if if if an officer for example uh there's been a
00:50:46.880lot of executive of policing agencies who have been very specifically told by their officers and
00:50:55.680by lawyers and by a lot of different entities look we think what you're doing is wrong it breaches
00:51:01.700these articles it breaches these laws it breaches uh these human rights and the the idea that
00:51:09.700they're going to be able to um if if if the courts are willing to uphold all those laws and and and
00:51:17.380rights that they're going to be able to skate away and just say well we didn't know anything about
00:51:22.120that or it was it was our honest mistake is a lot different than the cop who who finds coke in the
00:51:30.480trunk when he's looking for a six-year-old right it's going to be a lot a lot of a different
00:51:34.940responsibility so it's it's one of those floating you know that there's there's a number of
00:51:41.860different answers based on the totality of the circumstances what you just said you know you
00:51:46.340said well i i didn't realize what i was doing uh in reaching this charter uh by or doing this
00:51:51.900violation uh there have been notices of liability from action for canada.com that have been being
00:51:58.480issued to uh schools to corporations to government officials in the last few months and this is now
00:52:05.680becoming a larger thing these notices of liability are to let these people know the ones who are
00:52:12.820in fact just doing their jobs under under orders that they are doing an illegal act once they're
00:52:19.620told that they are in fact doing something illegal they are breaking the canadian laws
00:52:25.140are they obliged then to stop what they're doing because now they've been made aware they're put
00:52:31.620on notice if you will could they take that notice of liability to their boss let's just say you know
00:52:39.340if I handed it to a cop said you're giving me this ticket based upon a mandate which is illegal
00:52:45.180according to the you know the charter of rights and freedoms enshrined in the constitution
00:52:49.180just so you're aware of that I know some cops would probably laugh at that in the you know in
00:52:54.800the moment but that could be a thing well yeah um I mean that that that piece of paper doesn't
00:53:03.540so a notice of liability is essentially a a it's essentially that it doesn't carry the weight
00:53:10.600of law with it it doesn't carry the weight of you know if a person writes out what they believe to
00:53:17.020be the law to be and articulates it well um and they're right and they're correct about it
00:53:23.820what that does is it it serves a purpose in court later on right and um it may also it may also
00:53:33.520snap that person that it's being served to out of their stupor and get them to think twice and and
00:53:40.840that's essentially the goal like that's the goal of doing something like that is that you're trying
00:53:45.500your best to give them an honest uh shake at at changing their actions and coming in line with
00:53:54.940what's more reasonable so none of that stuff legally compels somebody to do something in
00:54:02.400my opinion but it would be the same thing as if if that person is right like if it would be the
00:54:08.700same thing as um um oh what's a good example it would be like somebody telling you to stop
00:54:20.320stealing something and i can see you stealing something you're stealing that stop stealing it
00:54:25.260and then they and then they kept doing it and then later on in court they they tried to say
00:54:29.520oh i didn't i didn't know i thought it was mine you know and and meanwhile there's a there's a
00:54:34.680person who's there who's who kept saying over and over and over again stop doing that it's wrong
00:54:38.680so have you uh been surprised by the small turnouts in winnipeg and the you know the lack
01:03:24.720And, you know, even if you've had arguments over this in the past, be able to sit them down and say, listen, the reason that I'm saying this isn't because I'm angry with you.
01:03:37.000It's because I care for you and I care for what's going on.
01:03:40.660And, you know, I think that focusing on the idea of future is very important for people.
01:03:48.840You have to be able to speak to the people who are answering this out of emotion and out of concern, out of fear, and you have to be able to speak to those different things.
01:04:03.760So if they're worried because they love somebody that might catch something and be harmed by it, you have to speak to that trait of theirs, that they care about people.
01:04:16.200And so you have to show them, well, I care about people too. And if they're, you know, afraid, you have to give them assurance, you know, and that assurance doesn't necessarily come in just telling them, you know, it'll all be okay, the numbers are wrong.
01:04:32.320it has to come in in more practical ways too um and and so i i think that the real key for all of
01:04:41.760this lies within uh building a community that is stronger than than the uh than the battering ram
01:04:52.600building building a wall for your community that's stronger than the battering ram that
01:04:56.180they're trying to bring to your door and um that that's a that's a much more complex thing than
01:05:02.200than maybe it sounds like but i think that a lot of a lot of people the other thing that they're
01:05:08.520doing is they're waiting for let's say all of the cops to say well this isn't this isn't going to
01:05:14.420work and and walk out and it's it's not going to happen and they're waiting for the the judges you
01:05:20.700know one judge to come and white knight it and come riding you know on a stallion and and say
01:05:25.380this is unlawful and just you know cast a magic wand or wave a scepter or something like that and
01:05:30.320and it's going to change or some politician to come in and and um and change policy and all of
01:05:39.260those things individually are important but what what's the most critical thing is that is that
01:05:44.100we individually while we're in our positions that we're in are able to look people in the eye and
01:05:50.280very uh pointedly very clearly tell them this is wrong and this is why it's wrong and i'm not
01:05:56.300going to be mad at you about it but i need like we we need to start we need to start talking about
01:06:01.000this and we need to start really saying to those people that we have influence over um you know
01:06:07.980instead of instead of yelling at them and throwing things across the kitchen table we need to be able
01:06:11.840to have like a loving discussion with them and i i think that that's the thing that changes
01:06:16.140people's minds um you are trained in the art of de-escalation obviously as a police officer
01:06:22.620former police officer and i think that's what you just told us all about how how can we do this how
01:06:28.340how do we keep it civil i mean for us we can really try hard to keep it civil inside and
01:06:34.900speak in calm and even tones but the other side how do we do that do we do constant reassurance
01:06:41.060what what is the trick i can tell you what's changed in my mind because i wasn't always
01:06:48.700a great de-escalator uh i think i've i've become one of the better ones um you know and there's
01:06:56.100there's times when i i know full well that that de-escalation is not an option and and there's
01:07:01.520times when uh you know swiftness and violence of action is is required and i don't mean i don't
01:07:06.760mean violence fists necessarily I mean you have to act now and you have to do something um
01:07:13.060but I think that I think that the the biggest thing that has changed for me
01:07:21.060is is being able to convince myself in some way shape or form not to be afraid of what's coming
01:07:31.100and a lot of a lot of that comes with uh taking an honest look at what what is coming down the
01:07:40.000pipe and and looking at it deciding okay it can it can be up to this bad or it can be this this
01:07:49.220bad or it can be it and it can be really bad what's coming and then looking at that and saying
01:07:54.600okay if that worst thing happens what's going to my what's going to be my response is going to
01:08:00.540and I've thought about this, like if, if, if they come and knock,
01:08:05.880knock at the door and they want, they want to take me to some place,
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01:17:29.380And finally, the show is of course brought to you by Tacit Investigations. Hang on just a minute.
01:17:34.920tacit investigations and security their mission is to be the pinnacle solution service provider
01:17:40.680of investigation and specialized security services to clients through innovation intelligence
01:17:45.720and integrity headquartered right here in winnipeg manitoba canada jeff stone is the founder
01:17:51.920the president the ceo of tacit investigations and security he is a renowned investigator and
01:17:56.760security operator in canada and so is the rest of his executive team with over 75 years of combined
01:18:02.760military and police training. They do investigations, due diligence, open source intelligence,
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01:18:20.120online, tacit-investigations.com or call 204-952-4775, 24 hours a day, seven days a week,
01:18:28.500365 days a year tacit investigations and security all right guys that's it for the show tonight
01:18:34.760thank you again to james erskine for joining the show a lot of really valuable insight
01:18:39.340uh and maybe we'll set james up at tacit for a gig there as well he seems like he's got enough
01:18:45.180know-how and experience don't you think that's it for the show i love you all and i will catch
01:18:50.660you tomorrow night at eight o'clock central for another shadow at night live stream till then