The StoneZONE with Roger Stone - September 24, 2026


Bridgegate, Bibles, and Blagojevich

Hosted by
Mentioned
No Press Pass, No Problem: Bye-Bye CNN! Roger Stone on Chris Christie

Episode Stats


Length

36 minutes

Words per minute

165.29

Word count

6,012

Sentence count

392

Harmful content

Hate speech

5

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.340 The Stone Zone, entertaining and informative on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
00:00:07.460 You are now diving headfirst into the Stone Zone.
00:00:12.420 I'm in New York City today where President Donald Trump yesterday addressed the United Nations in a masterful address
00:00:19.900 where he essentially declared that America is back in the days of treating Uncle Sam as a patsy over.
00:00:28.800 But yesterday I was in Washington, D.C.
00:00:30.960 I saw Vice President J.D. Vance.
00:00:34.080 We had an excellent meeting with a number of folks there.
00:00:38.100 J.D. was very kind in his remarks.
00:00:40.640 Special shout out to my friend Roger Stone, who I know is a very dear friend to so many of you in the Native American community.
00:00:48.260 Roger is, as I've said before, one of the brightest minds in American politics.
00:00:52.960 I'm genuinely curious, and I don't want bulls**t about what's going on in the American electorate, about what issues are hot, what issues are cold, the things that really motivate people to vote.
00:01:02.800 Roger is like the first person I would pick up the phone and call.
00:01:06.380 Very kind words from the Vice President of the United States, who now is leading in all of the polls as the first choice for 2028.
00:01:14.680 Of course, I think Republicans should focus on 2026 before they start worrying about 2028.
00:01:20.180 I'm old enough to having worked for President Ronald Reagan at the end of two years, 1982.
00:01:27.720 Some of the establishment media, some of the liberal commentators were prepared to declare his presidency over.
00:01:34.240 He had a rough midterm election.
00:01:36.340 But the truth is, by 1984, his early tax cuts and his other regulatory reforms provided for a roaring, strong economy, and he was easily reelected.
00:01:47.180 So those who are counting Donald Trump out or doing so prematurely has always benefited throughout his time in politics of being underestimated.
00:01:58.060 Speaking, though, of being overestimated, this is almost too good to be true.
00:02:03.940 Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, says he is pondering a third presidential bid in 2028.
00:02:12.240 Hey, I said, well, Chris Christie needs to run, not for president.
00:02:16.660 He just needs to run.
00:02:18.780 He posted a piece online that says he was going to save the Republican Party.
00:02:24.680 I said the only thing he's going to save is room for that third dessert.
00:02:29.800 I mean, these politicians never know when their time has come and gone,
00:02:33.740 but the study of Chris Christie's rise in New Jersey
00:02:38.060 and his relationship with his brother presents a fascinating case study.
00:02:42.700 New Jersey politics has long resembled a carnival midway
00:02:46.740 where the games appear simple, the prizes glitter enticingly,
00:02:51.380 and the operators insist everything is perfectly legitimate.
00:02:54.780 Yet the more closely one examines the mechanics of the enterprise,
00:02:58.540 the more one begins to suspect that the odds have been arranged rather carefully.
00:03:02.960 A few stories illustrate this curious arithmetic of power
00:03:06.600 better than the saga of Chris Christie and his younger brother, Todd Christie.
00:03:12.380 They both attended the University of Delaware.
00:03:15.040 Chris Christie built a resume of a future politician becoming U.S. attorney
00:03:20.020 while his brother Todd gravitated to Wall Street and made a fortune there.
00:03:26.940 And in 2005, the Securities and Exchange Commission charged 20 specialist traders
00:03:34.760 connected to Todd Christie's firm, Spear, Leeds, and Kellogg with civil fraud
00:03:40.480 for engaging in trading practices that enrich their firms
00:03:44.060 while disadvantaging their customers.
00:03:47.060 Todd Christie was among those charged.
00:03:49.940 Regulators alleged that between 1999 and 2003,
00:03:54.620 Todd Christie participated in more than 1,600 improper trades
00:03:58.760 involving major corporations including IBM, AOL, Time Warner, AIG, and so on.
00:04:07.400 According to the SEC, these maneuvers produced nearly $1.59 million in profit for the firm
00:04:14.380 while investors absorbed about $1.5 million in additional costs or losses.
00:04:19.820 Now, one might reasonably assume that these allegations would attract the attention of criminal prosecutors.
00:04:25.940 Indeed, 15 of the 20 traitors in the firm were indicted on criminal fraud charges by the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Southern District of New York.
00:04:35.280 Those charges carried potential prison sentences of up to 10 years.
00:04:40.360 But strangely, Todd Christie was not among those charged.
00:04:44.840 Instead, Todd Christie faced only civil enforcement.
00:04:48.480 In 2008, he settled the SEC case without admitting wrongdoing, agreeing to disgorge the profits and pay penalties while acknowledging hundreds of improper trades.
00:05:00.280 In other words, criminal charges were never materialized in his case.
00:05:03.880 Now, the official explanation offered by prosecutors was simple.
00:05:07.240 The evidence, they said, supported civil enforcement but not criminal prosecution.
00:05:12.640 That decision was made by the office of the U.S. attorney, David Kelly, in the Southern District of New York.
00:05:19.400 Chris Christie was serving at that time as the U.S. attorney for the neighboring district of New Jersey,
00:05:26.280 and of course had no formal jurisdiction himself over the case.
00:05:29.800 At least that's the official explanation.
00:05:32.520 Yet politics, like comedy, depends heavily on timing.
00:05:36.520 Two years later, Todd Christie escaped criminal prosecution.
00:05:41.060 Chris Christie's office then awarded David Kelly, leaving the government service for private practice,
00:05:48.860 a lucrative corporate monitorship connected to a deferred prosecution agreement involving a company called Biomet Orthopedics.
00:05:58.380 The assignment required Kelly to oversee corporate compliance reforms following allegations that the company had paid kickbacks to doctors for using its hip and the implants.
00:06:09.140 Now, monitorships of this sort are not like modest consulting gigs.
00:06:15.160 They actually generate millions of dollars in legal fees.
00:06:18.840 The exact value of Kelly's appointment by Chris Christie was never publicly disclosed,
00:06:23.540 but such arrangements frequently produce enormous revenue streams for the law firms involved.
00:06:29.540 Chris Christie's defenders insist, of course, that his selection of Kelly was based solely on merit.
00:06:35.220 They noted that monitors were paid by the companies involved rather than the taxpayers.
00:06:40.640 They also observed that the practice of appointing outside monitors was common in federal prosecution agreements during that period.
00:06:48.480 Well, perhaps so.
00:06:50.940 Yet the optics would cause even the most charitable observer to pause for a moment.
00:06:55.740 A politically connected Wall Street executive avoids criminal prosecution.
00:07:00.240 The prosecutor who made the decision later receives a lucrative assignment
00:07:04.080 from the executive's brother, who happens to be a powerful U.S. attorney.
00:07:08.580 Are we truly expected to believe that no curious citizen might raise an eyebrow
00:07:12.960 at this sequence of events, yet no reporter would write this story
00:07:21.200 the way I've just laid it out for you?
00:07:22.700 Chris Christie has always portrayed himself as a crusading corruption fighter
00:07:28.220 During his tenure as U.S. attorney, he prosecuted more than 100 public officials,
00:07:32.320 both Republicans and Democrats.
00:07:34.320 That reputation served him well politically,
00:07:36.240 helping propel him to the governor's office in 2009.
00:07:41.800 Yet the pattern of lucrative monitorships under Chris Christie
00:07:44.900 did not end with this case of David Kelly.
00:07:48.040 In another prominent case, he appointed former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft
00:07:52.580 as a corporate monitor in a settlement involving another medical device
00:07:56.760 manufacturing company called Zimmer Holdings. Ashcroft's firm reportedly earned
00:08:00.920 up to $52 million. Also appointed
00:08:05.000 David Sampson, a close political ally, to another monitorship role.
00:08:08.840 One might ask whether New Jersey's celebrated corruption fighter had
00:08:12.460 inadvertently created a rather comfortable patronage system for well-connected
00:08:16.880 heavyweights. Yet the Chris Christie story does not end
00:08:20.660 there. Chris Christie's tenure as governor eventually became
00:08:24.240 were both shattered by the infamous Bridgegate scandal, you remember that, in which traffic lanes
00:08:30.040 on the George Washington Bridge were closed in apparent retaliation against a mayor who declined
00:08:35.520 to endorse Christie's re-election campaign. So although the Supreme Court later overturned the
00:08:41.060 criminal convictions of two Christie associates involved in that scheme, the episode left behind
00:08:46.940 a lingering question about the culture that had developed in the New Jersey governor's office.
00:08:51.820 When the political staff believes it's acceptable to weaponize the busiest bridge in America as a tool of petty political vengeance, what does that say about the broader environment in which such a decision is made?
00:09:05.560 The Christie brothers represent a fascinating case study in modern political power.
00:09:10.180 One brother accumulates $60 million in a Wall Street windfall, becomes entangled in a trading scandal that somehow avoids critical criminal prosecution.
00:09:20.020 The other brother ascends through the federal prosecutor system, appoints lucrative monitorships to well-connected allies, ultimately is elected governor.
00:09:29.300 And then, of course, Chris Christie turned with a vengeance against Donald Trump, fired as the first head of the presidential transition in Donald Trump's first term.
00:09:39.400 He's now pitched his tent as a critic of Donald Trump.
00:09:44.680 He has zero chance of being nominated in the Trump-dominated Republican Party of Donald Trump.
00:09:51.880 First of all, I'm not sure where he would raise the money.
00:09:54.460 You see, when you're the governor of a state, you have enormous leverage for fundraising.
00:09:59.160 You essentially extort money from those who do business with the state.
00:10:02.440 But he's long since left the governorship,
00:10:04.980 and he is right now in the polls rated as one of the most unpopular former governors of New Jersey.
00:10:12.320 And that includes a list of several governors who have either been disgraced or gone to prison.
00:10:18.940 So it is interesting to watch this kind of self-adulation.
00:10:25.720 But Chris Christie is not a viable candidate for president.
00:10:30.520 Again, as I said earlier, Republicans would be wise to focus on 2026 before they worry about 2028.
00:10:39.920 But we have not one, we have two frontrunners, J.D. Vance, who leads in most of the public preference polls.
00:10:48.620 I'm a Republican, to be honest with you.
00:10:50.100 Republicans, we don't dump sitting vice presidents.
00:10:55.060 After four years, or two terms, eight years as vice president, Richard Nixon followed Dwight Eisenhower.
00:11:02.200 After four years under Ronald Reagan, George Bush followed the great Ronald Reagan.
00:11:07.520 And the chances are overwhelming that J.D. Vance, who I noticed yesterday was being attacked by Steve Bannon, another good sign for J.D., is very likely to be the Republican nominee.
00:11:20.600 By the way, on my vacation this summer to Monaco was really great.
00:11:25.140 I've never been to Monaco.
00:11:26.360 Monaco is so cool that if you try to enter Monaco and you're not well-dressed, the police give you a ticket.
00:11:35.600 Seriously, if you're wearing like flip-flops and a bathing suit and a T-shirt,
00:11:39.300 they give you a ticket, which means Steve Bannon would be busted
00:11:43.120 the minute he tried to step into Monaco.
00:11:46.200 And anyway, I also note that it was 62 years today
00:11:50.120 that the Warren Commission handed down its report.
00:11:54.340 When we come back, we're going to talk about that.
00:11:56.800 I'm Roger Stone. You're listening to The Stone Zone.
00:11:58.680 Don't go away.
00:12:00.640 The Stone Zone.
00:12:02.580 Entertaining and informative.
00:12:04.260 Welcome back into the Stone Zone.
00:12:09.860 As I said, 62 years ago today that the Warren Commission handed over its report
00:12:16.420 on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy to President Lyndon Johnson.
00:12:21.240 At this point, the Warren Commission has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.
00:12:25.580 I have challenged Gerald Posner, who wrote Case Closed,
00:12:29.480 which is supposedly the definitive defense of the Warren Commission,
00:12:32.980 to debate me yet again.
00:12:34.700 He's debated me once before.
00:12:35.920 By the way, he's a very good guy.
00:12:37.120 He's a very smart guy.
00:12:38.360 He just happens to be wrong on this particular topic.
00:12:41.800 I still believe what Richard Nixon told me in his living room in Saddle River,
00:12:45.820 which is after two martinis, of course.
00:12:49.560 Lyndon and I both wanted to be president of the United States.
00:12:52.040 The difference was I wasn't willing to kill for it.
00:12:54.860 This is pretty easy to dispatch.
00:12:56.560 If Lee Harvey Oswald shot John F. Kennedy,
00:12:59.200 why does he have no nitrate burns on his chest or his arm?
00:13:02.980 or his face, or they tell us that he shot a $26 Italian vintage World War II Italian carbine.
00:13:13.000 Not possible.
00:13:14.080 Why has no government sharpshooter in any branch of the services
00:13:17.540 been able to recreate the supposed three shots,
00:13:20.720 which theoretically all came from behind from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository building?
00:13:28.980 They tell us the absolute proof that Lee Harvey Oswald killed John F. Kennedy
00:13:34.140 is that he subsequently killed Officer J.D. Tippett.
00:13:37.880 Well, the problem with that is the shells that are found on the ground where Tippett was shot
00:13:41.780 came from an automatic, but Lee Harvey Oswald is arrested with a revolver
00:13:46.860 in the Texas movie theater nearby.
00:13:50.740 So I hope Gerald Posner will take me up on my challenge to debate again,
00:13:56.700 But this is an endlessly popular subject.
00:14:00.780 I still don't believe the official narrative of the Warren Commission.
00:14:06.360 In the meantime, it's fun to watch CNN and MSNOW, formerly known as MSNBC.
00:14:13.740 These people are so discredited they had to change their name because nobody believes them.
00:14:17.580 and Politico insisting that the fact that they have been banned
00:14:22.000 from having taxpayer-financed office space within the White House
00:14:25.980 is a violation of their First Amendment rights.
00:14:28.720 This is an absurdity.
00:14:30.360 They're free to report anything they want.
00:14:32.940 But there is no automatic right to taxpayer-financed office space,
00:14:38.260 and there is a long history of presidents, including Barack Obama.
00:14:44.020 He banned the Washington Times.
00:14:45.800 He banned the Washington Examiner.
00:14:47.900 He banned a number of media outlets from the Washington's official White House press pool.
00:14:55.340 There are no First Amendment rights here.
00:14:57.800 Why weren't these people worried about free speech and First Amendment rights
00:15:01.260 when literally millions of people were banned on social media?
00:15:05.420 People like, well, me.
00:15:07.880 I mean, banned for life on Facebook, banned for life on Instagram,
00:15:12.120 banned at that time on Twitter, now known as X.
00:15:15.060 I give great credit to Elon Musk, who I think has done more for the First Amendment than anyone other than the founding fathers.
00:15:23.020 Now, there's a true violation of free speech rights, but you didn't see CNN or MSNBC or Politico complaining about that.
00:15:35.340 And Chris Murphy over in Connecticut basically said the loud part out loud in a podcast I watched yesterday.
00:15:43.040 He's once again calling for Internet censorship and for regulating the Internet so that, as he puts it, something like Donald Trump never happens again.
00:15:56.160 I think that's up to the voters.
00:15:57.820 I'm a free speech absolutist.
00:16:00.960 And when it comes to CNN, I'm going to be very, very clear.
00:16:04.280 I don't get my news from CNN for the same reason I don't drink out of the toilet.
00:16:08.920 For two and a half years, they called me a Russian asset.
00:16:13.300 They questioned my patriotism.
00:16:15.620 They said that I was a go-between for WikiLeaks.
00:16:18.580 Not even federal prosecutors who charged me in a bogus case to pressure me to testify against Donald Trump alleged that and produced no such evidence of it.
00:16:28.180 It's going to go to the Supreme Court now because they're suing, which I'm glad to see, because all the precedents, the legal precedents that I have seen indicates that they have no right to be in the White House.
00:16:40.380 The Stone Zone, entertaining and informative on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
00:16:47.440 Thanks for joining us again back in the Stone Zone.
00:16:51.900 Rod Blagojevich has lived an interesting life, to say the least.
00:16:56.620 He, of course, was the governor of Illinois, the first Democrat elected to that office in 26 years.
00:17:02.320 He was also the first Illinois governor to be impeached.
00:17:05.220 Later, he was known as federal prisoner number 40892-424 after being convicted of public corruption charges having to do with the U.S. Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama when he became president.
00:17:21.160 But there's a great deal more to that story, which we'll come back to in a moment.
00:17:25.900 Born to a blue-collar family in Chicago, Rod shined shoes, delivered pizzas,
00:17:31.120 worked in a meatpacking plant when he was growing up.
00:17:33.800 He also worked for two summers on the Alaskan Pipeline.
00:17:37.060 Thanks to the sacrifice of his parents and his continued hard work,
00:17:41.560 he attended and graduated from Northwestern University,
00:17:44.820 went on to get a law degree from Pepperdine University.
00:17:47.080 He was an assistant state's attorney for Cook County.
00:17:50.780 He was a state house representative.
00:17:53.080 representative, and then in 1996, he was elected to the U.S. Congress. Politics was quite different
00:17:59.780 in those days. 2002, his personal vision of the American dream continued. He beat very long odds
00:18:06.360 to become the 40th governor of the state of Illinois, and that's a record as governor that
00:18:13.560 I think deserves some focus. He created historic access to affordable health care for children
00:18:19.360 in Illinois. He provided free mammograms and pap smears for tens of thousands of women without
00:18:25.760 health insurance. He established free public transportation for senior citizens, disabled
00:18:31.060 people. But above all, he fought his own party's constant attempts to raise taxes on the working
00:18:38.340 families of Illinois. Rod Blagojevich was something that no longer exists anymore,
00:18:44.640 A moderate Democrat and a very successful governor.
00:18:49.460 In 2008, it was when this American dream, the success story, came crashing down,
00:18:55.700 working to fill the U.S. Senate seat vacated by the election of Barack Obama.
00:19:00.980 Rob Legoyevich was charged with corruption, impeached twice, and finally convicted and sentenced to 14 years,
00:19:08.400 of which he actually served eight years of a sentence for a crime that did not exist.
00:19:15.940 Recently released documents by the Department of Justice tell a very different story.
00:19:22.820 Now, Rob Blagojevich was initially had his sentence commuted by President Donald Trump
00:19:27.340 on February 18th, 2020.
00:19:29.320 He would later have a full and unconditional presidential pardon.
00:19:33.740 It was only after that he was commuted that he and I became friends.
00:19:42.480 What's amazing about Rod Begojevich is after serving eight years, pretty hard time, he's not bitter, he's not broken, he's sustained by his faith.
00:19:52.520 If anything, he is stronger, and he continues to speak out for the good of the country.
00:19:58.160 Rob Begojevich, welcome to the Stone Zone.
00:20:01.380 Thanks for having me, Roger, and thank you for those kind words.
00:20:04.960 This is a historic time, and these revelations from the Justice Department last week
00:20:10.540 kind of prove what you've been saying without the FBI 302s of Barack Obama
00:20:19.040 and Rahm Emanuel to prove it.
00:20:21.640 It really does prove, and the Fox News published these long-hidden documents,
00:20:27.840 that you did nothing wrong.
00:20:29.700 So I want to take this opportunity to walk our audience through exactly what these reports say about this Senate appointment.
00:20:36.920 I think you're guilty.
00:20:38.300 You're guilty of engaging in politics.
00:20:41.160 That's what you're guilty of.
00:20:43.060 Well, that's right.
00:20:44.040 And not only politics, but good government, which the first Mayor Daley used to say was good politics.
00:20:49.620 Good politics is good government.
00:20:50.880 Good government is good politics.
00:20:52.380 I was on the verge of potentially making a political deal for the Senate seat
00:20:56.840 In exchange for appointing the Attorney General of Illinois, Lisa Madigan, who I did not like, because her father was my political nemesis of the two of them, leading Democrats, who were obstructing my efforts as governor to do things for the people, in spite of that, I was willing to hold my nose and make her senator on one condition if her father, the powerful House Speaker who had been there for 43 years, Chairman of the Democratic Party of Illinois, would pass legislation that would further expand health care to working families, affordable health care,
00:21:24.580 invest in infrastructure highways schools hospitals create tens of thousands of jobs
00:21:31.860 and had put in writing a memorandum of understanding not to raise the income tax
00:21:36.500 on the people of illinois because i was fearful of that because for six years when i was governor
00:21:40.440 all the leading democrats kept pushing for that income tax increase and i was fearful they could
00:21:45.240 override my veto so i wanted that deal i'd hold my nose and i would make her lisa madigan the
00:21:50.760 senator the night before, the day before the arrest, I instructed my chief of staff to reach
00:21:55.520 out to Rahm Emanuel. They'd been talking about this deal and ask him to begin the process to
00:22:01.220 see if we can make it happen. The FBI was listening and the next morning at six o'clock
00:22:06.700 with 24 members of a SWAT team, very much like what they did to you, Roger.
00:22:11.600 They came to my house to arrest me. They didn't want the day to start and the business day to
00:22:16.060 start because they were afraid that that deal was going to happen. It was legal and good for
00:22:20.380 the people of Illinois, and if they did that, they could never lie and say they were stopping
00:22:24.560 a crime spree before it happened, because that's what the U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald said
00:22:28.900 when I was locked up in a jail cell. Now, I write about this in detail in my book,
00:22:33.400 Frame, Deft, and Freed, which is coming out November 10th. A lot more detail there. But
00:22:37.680 the bottom line, Roger, was this was the biggest frame-up in American history. They hijacked a
00:22:41.380 twice-elected governor. They were emboldened by what they did to me. They got away with it,
00:22:45.660 two trials and a judge that was pretty much their guy. It was very much their guy. And they were
00:22:50.900 emboldened to go after people like you, Roger, because they were determined to go after President
00:22:54.040 Trump. And this kind of weaponization, I think, really began with me at the AAA level to a
00:22:58.900 Democrat governor. And then he took it to the major league level to go after President Trump
00:23:02.640 and you and others who we all know what happened there. And this is a very dangerous thing for our
00:23:08.500 country. This is the greatest country in the world. And it's the last best hope on earth.
00:23:11.880 That's what Lincoln said. He's right. And if we lose the rule of law, we lose our democracy.
00:23:17.180 Correct me if I'm wrong. You were the first governor in the country to endorse Barack Obama for president.
00:23:22.160 Isn't that correct? Right. And look, for that, maybe I deserve going to prison, but you are correct.
00:23:29.120 I endorsed him back in 2007. He was from Illinois. I have known Obama since 1995.
00:23:34.080 We had a friendly relationship, a pretty good relationship, actually.
00:23:38.240 He was from the south side of town. I was from the north side of town.
00:23:40.820 He was a Sox fan. I was a Cubs fan. And we came up together and we both were, you know, had success statewide.
00:23:48.020 And he then skyrocketed. He gave that speech in Boston in 2004.
00:23:52.900 And then he announced for president he was running against Hillary Clinton.
00:23:55.880 So in some respects, Roger, that wasn't a hard decision for me as a Democratic governor to choose between the two of them.
00:24:02.520 But looking back, of course, I regret that very much. And, you know, Obama made a deal.
00:24:06.580 I write I write about this in my book as well. I write that, you know, when they arrested me on the 8th of December, 9th of December, 2008, on a Tuesday, nine days later, they interviewed Obama and those documents that you talked about.
00:24:18.960 And thank you very much for all the help you've given me, Roger. Those documents are Obama's FBI interview, which they would not allow me to have to defend myself at trial.
00:24:27.980 And they've covered him up for 17 years, and finally, because the Trump administration is interested in transparency and letting the truth come out, they finally came out, and they are corroborating everything I've been saying for all those years.
00:24:40.640 The next step is they've got to release now the 98 percent of the FBI tapes they've covered up, particularly the tape from the night before, the day before, when I made a substantial step to start the process of picking a senator, because that'll prove that they lied, and I've been telling the truth, that they arrested me to stop that.
00:24:57.980 not to stop their fake crime spree that they claimed they were stopping.
00:25:01.960 I give Attorney General Todd Blanche enormous credit for releasing these documents,
00:25:07.440 which have been controversial for some time.
00:25:10.800 The record seems to show that initially Barack Obama wanted Valerie Jarrett to fill his Senate seat,
00:25:17.540 then changed his mind, decided that she should go to the White House.
00:25:21.840 But this is the earliest example of weaponization.
00:25:25.540 I mean, Franklin Roosevelt used the IRS, frankly, to harass his political enemies.
00:25:31.800 That's a documented fact.
00:25:33.460 The Kennedys also used the IRS quite aggressively.
00:25:36.560 It's funny.
00:25:37.380 Richard Nixon lost the presidency in 1960.
00:25:40.000 I wonder how he got up a random audit in 61 and 62 and no audit after 1963.
00:25:49.820 He always wondered about that.
00:25:52.000 I didn't wonder about it.
00:25:53.020 The Kennedys used the IRS very aggressively against their political enemies.
00:25:58.720 It is the most amazing thing, Rod, in all honesty,
00:26:03.180 is the way you have not only survived but thrived.
00:26:07.940 You're not bitter.
00:26:09.380 You're not angry.
00:26:10.380 You're not broken.
00:26:11.400 I mean, a lesser man would be all of those things.
00:26:14.160 And, you know, I've talked about this in the way in which your faith sustained you
00:26:18.780 for eight long years when there was no crime.
00:26:23.020 And one of the things I want to stress, you outlined the elements of a political deal.
00:26:29.580 No part of that deal put a penny in the pocket of Rob Blagojevich.
00:26:35.200 No part of that deal put a penny in the campaign of Rob Blagojevich.
00:26:41.080 The benefit would have been solely and completely for the working families and the citizens of Illinois.
00:26:47.840 yet they conjured this up as a crime.
00:26:52.920 It's really quite extraordinary.
00:26:55.940 Look, I could never have imagined it like that could have happened in America.
00:26:59.320 You know, I trusted the system.
00:27:00.500 I thought those guys in the U.S. Attorney's Office,
00:27:03.020 they were the best and the brightest.
00:27:04.260 They went to the best law schools, law schools I couldn't get into.
00:27:07.680 They were being able to be hired in the U.S. Attorney's Office.
00:27:10.460 I had no chance of getting hired in the U.S. Attorney's Office
00:27:12.820 when I came out of law school.
00:27:13.900 I was a prosecutor at the state level.
00:27:15.600 But I imagine that not only were they smart and intelligent, but that they were honest and had integrity.
00:27:23.700 And I miscalculated.
00:27:24.800 Now, I'm not saying most U.S. attorneys are those things.
00:27:27.440 I think most of them are good people.
00:27:28.980 But I do believe a cabal, a cancer, was in that office during those years.
00:27:34.600 And you can identify who they were, Patrick Fitzgerald, James Comey, Robert Mueller.
00:27:39.980 These were the same people that were doing to me what they went on to then do to President Trump.
00:27:44.580 and they are a great threat to our democracy and our freedoms and to our constitution but no you
00:27:51.760 you asked me what got me through it you know i write about this in my book too my first night
00:27:55.980 in prison roger i'm facing 14 years and i just have to say goodbye to my little girls my little
00:28:00.680 one andy banani was eight years old and my older daughter amy was 15 they were young children i'm
00:28:05.560 about to now miss you know their years growing up which i did but i'm facing 14 years and i
00:28:12.360 just got done saying goodbye to them and my wife and you know i then walk into a prison that was
00:28:18.000 the higher prison i spent my first nearly three years in a prison with murderers i had access to
00:28:23.440 a 50 000 square foot governor's mansion when i was governor now i found myself in a six foot
00:28:27.520 eight foot prison cell just like in the movies and that first night i described this first night
00:28:33.240 in my book how all of a sudden the gates slammed shut these powerful big iron gates slammed shut
00:28:39.480 and then the lights went off and were swallowed up in darkness and the realization hit me
00:28:43.680 good lord man i am really here this is really happening i can't get out of this place and i
00:28:50.000 have 14 years of this and i am so afraid for my children and my wife they're home alone
00:28:54.620 knowing they're to protect them not i'm not there to provide for them what's going to happen to them
00:29:00.520 and i reached for the bible that my wife patty gave me the only thing to let you bring into
00:29:04.780 prison rogers the bible couldn't even bring my running shoes in and i i had a reading light that
00:29:11.160 was given to me by inmates they gave me a welcome basket you know these tough guys game bangers and
00:29:15.920 even some of them you know committed homicides right these guys gathered together a welcome
00:29:21.680 basket for me and it was a reading light that you can use late at night on your book and read
00:29:27.080 the light just goes down on the book and i went to the bible and i went to the psalms and i went
00:29:32.500 the 23rd Psalm first and then kept reading the Psalms because I needed something to give me hope
00:29:37.260 and strength. And for every day, for every day, 2,896 days that I spent in prison, I would read
00:29:44.280 the Bible over and over again. And faith, hope, and love, which is what St. Paul writes in the
00:29:49.620 first letter to Corinthians chapter 13. That's what got me home, above all the excellence of
00:29:54.220 love. And the purpose I had in my life at that point was to live for my children and for my wife.
00:29:59.440 And no matter how bad it was, no matter how despair might creep in, I had to keep it away.
00:30:06.440 I had to be strong.
00:30:07.740 I had to somehow survive and make my way back home, not so much for me, but for my little girls.
00:30:13.380 And here's why I love Donald Trump.
00:30:15.180 I support him on so much of what he does as president.
00:30:18.600 But as a person who I got to know a little bit on his television show, just a little bit, but Trump saved me and rescued me from that.
00:30:25.160 And, you know, Roger, what he did for my daughters, he gave my daughters the best gift they've ever received.
00:30:29.260 in their lives. He gave them their father back.
00:30:32.520 Well, I completely
00:30:33.400 identify with that. I was redeemed
00:30:35.440 in the blood of the cross. I returned
00:30:37.260 to the church. We're going through the same kind of
00:30:39.260 similar crucible.
00:30:41.120 See, I was so naive that I thought that when they
00:30:43.160 charged me with things I knew I wasn't guilty of
00:30:45.340 that I'd get a fair trial.
00:30:47.160 I'd have a chance to prove
00:30:49.060 my innocence, even though technically
00:30:50.680 it's the government's obligation to prove your guilt.
00:30:53.420 That's not really how it works.
00:30:55.120 You have to prove your innocence. I didn't know
00:30:57.200 that the judge would withhold
00:30:58.880 exculpatory evidence against me
00:31:00.700 I didn't know that there were certain items
00:31:02.680 videos, audios, text messages
00:31:05.000 emails that I would not
00:31:06.760 my lawyers would not be allowed to
00:31:08.680 enter into evidence in my own
00:31:10.800 defense. I didn't know that I would be
00:31:12.780 gagged. How come the
00:31:14.800 folks at CNN and
00:31:16.100 MSNOW and
00:31:18.340 the Politico so concerned about
00:31:20.680 the First Amendment and free speech today
00:31:22.460 they didn't seem to upset when I
00:31:24.620 had a broad gag
00:31:26.560 placed upon me by
00:31:28.560 a federal judge. Nowhere in the Constitution
00:31:30.340 does it say when you're charged with a crime
00:31:32.400 you lose your free speech rights
00:31:34.640 but I was not allowed to
00:31:36.040 defend myself
00:31:38.160 and it is only
00:31:40.260 frankly because
00:31:41.980 a chance meeting, an opportunity to meet
00:31:44.500 with Franklin Graham who gave me
00:31:46.400 the best possible advice
00:31:47.920 in this crucible that I was going
00:31:50.380 through. He said, look, turn your
00:31:52.480 burden over to the Lord. Put your faith
00:31:54.520 in God and he will lift you up
00:31:56.600 and he will deliver you
00:31:58.240 from your persecutors, and that's precisely what I did.
00:32:02.400 In the beginning, you know, I was reading the Bibles, the Psalms,
00:32:05.780 the Proverbs, and so on.
00:32:06.780 I wasn't feeling it, and then ultimately the day came
00:32:10.540 when the Lord began to sustain me, and I knew.
00:32:14.960 I came home, and I told my wife, you know, it's all going to be okay.
00:32:19.500 It's actually all going to be okay, and the cards, as you know,
00:32:23.160 are stacked against you.
00:32:24.680 federal prosecutors win
00:32:26.760 99% of their
00:32:28.780 cases and
00:32:30.520 I think at the time you and I were sitting at
00:32:32.720 Mar-a-Lago at a table together
00:32:34.120 we'd both been pardoned and
00:32:36.800 the president you know kind of spins tunes
00:32:38.880 on his iPad
00:32:40.640 and he sent
00:32:42.260 an aide over to ask us what
00:32:44.500 song we wanted to hear
00:32:46.200 and you said with a smile
00:32:48.820 Jailhouse Rock
00:32:50.620 it was one of the high points
00:32:52.880 of my career. Folks, you're listening to
00:32:54.980 Rob Blagojevich, one of the greatest
00:32:56.700 governors in Illinois history and a true
00:32:58.800 American patriot, and we'll be
00:33:00.620 right back.
00:33:02.780 The Stone Zone. Entertaining
00:33:04.900 and informative. On the Red
00:33:06.880 Apple Podcast Network.
00:33:09.660 And we're back in the
00:33:10.820 Stone Zone. We're talking to former 1.00
00:33:12.500 Illinois Governor Rob Blagojevich.
00:33:15.120 Rob, I have to ask you this question.
00:33:17.400 What happened to the once
00:33:18.860 great Democrat Party of John
00:33:20.900 F. Kennedy and Harry Truman
00:33:22.700 and Richard J. Daly, the father, a party that believed in free enterprise, capitalism,
00:33:30.120 strong national defense, God.
00:33:33.100 That Democrat party does not seem to exist to me anymore.
00:33:36.700 It appears to have been taken captive by a radical Marxist clique.
00:33:41.740 It's very hard to understand.
00:33:43.100 What's your analysis?
00:33:45.240 My analysis is that party doesn't exist.
00:33:47.780 You're exactly right.
00:33:48.560 I mean, the Democratic Party I was in, the Democratic Party that I believed in doesn't exist anymore.
00:33:55.720 You know, one of the best things about the Democratic Party when I was in it was we were not that unlike sort of the in some respects, like the new Republican Party that President Trump has built.
00:34:05.540 And that is, you know, fundamentally made up of working people who loved our country, who believed in God, who supported the police, who thought, you know, America was a place where if you work real hard, you can improve your lot in life, build a better life for your family.
00:34:23.620 You can get ahead.
00:34:24.880 You can leave the working class and become part of the middle class and maybe even upper class, maybe even become super rich.
00:34:31.520 That's the beauty of America.
00:34:32.620 That's why people from all over the world to this day still want to come to this country.
00:34:36.300 But that is not the party anymore.
00:34:38.200 The socialists have hijacked the Democratic Party, and the Democratic Party is really a socialist party.
00:34:44.180 Even the so-called moderate Democrats or those who used to be moderate or reasonable Democrats are so afraid of the socialists that they – well, if they win elections, they'll govern as socialists.
00:34:56.400 Look at Illinois.
00:34:57.060 Our governor, J.B. Pritzker, inherited $3 billion, the Hyatt Hotel fortune.
00:35:01.820 And what he does is spend all his time as governor not looking out for the interest of American citizens in Illinois and the hardworking people of this state or even the black community that's facing every year, you know, high crime rates and murder rates.
00:35:14.440 He panders to illegal immigrants because that's the stuff that pleases the socialists. 0.53
00:35:19.340 We have a, well, we have a netball baby billionaire Bolshevik governor in Illinois 0.65
00:35:25.940 who's raised taxes on people and eased more than 51 times. 0.75
00:35:30.480 More than 1,000 businesses have left our state.
00:35:33.660 Over 400,000 people have left our state, 1.00
00:35:36.400 and they're being replaced by, you know, illegal immigrants
00:35:39.200 who have found sanctuary in Illinois and in Chicago because it's a sanctuary city and a sanctuary state.
00:35:44.800 All right, Rod, I'm afraid we have to wrap it there.
00:35:46.740 I want to thank my guest, Rod Begojevich.
00:35:48.540 thanks for listening to the stone zone with roger stone you can hear the stone zone with
00:35:54.480 roger stone weeknights at 8 on 77 wabc if you like the podcast share it with your friends
00:36:01.600 and listen anytime at wabc radio.com and download the wabc radio app hit that subscribe button on
00:36:08.900 all major podcast platforms plus follow wabc on social on instagram tiktok facebook and x see
00:36:16.960 See you next time for a new episode so you never have to wonder.
00:36:20.580 What the heck is going on here?