The Tucker Carlson Show - Murder, Drugs and Cover-Ups： Military Insider Exposes the Criminal Cartel Within the US Navy SEALs

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00:00:30.000 matt thanks for doing this thank you ducker um you've had a really varied life i would say

00:00:40.520 and you have devoted the last several maybe seven years of it to a man called job price

00:00:46.960 and his memory and discovering the truth about how his life ended who was he it's an interesting

00:00:53.120 story um he and i were classmates at potstown high school we graduated together in 1989

00:00:58.980 but we weren't friends like we outside Philadelphia yes outside of Philadelphia and

00:01:04.760 we knew each other in the same classes but we didn't socialize outside of school

00:01:09.980 and but he was the the bar right it's academically athletically he was the bar everybody was

00:01:17.700 trying to reach he was brilliant he was a three sport star in school and he was just he was for

00:01:26.600 me personally, he was my, my academic rival. And I, we both were on the, I, at one point in time,

00:01:33.720 I was on the, the track to go to a military academy. And he ended up going to the Air Force

00:01:38.640 Academy. Graduated from there and then transferred his commission to the Navy because he wanted to

00:01:43.920 be a Navy SEAL. But he was kind of a goofy guy. He wasn't tough. He didn't have a hard edge to

00:01:52.060 him kind of boy scout-ish yes um but everybody everybody was drawn to him he just had that kind

00:01:59.600 of personality and so going navy seal was actually not anything i would have had in my bingo card

00:02:05.000 he didn't that wasn't his tough like you would think navy seal there would be a whole lot more

00:02:11.020 harder edge personality and he just he he wasn't that but what did he make a good career out of it

00:02:17.040 so he graduates air force academy what happens to his life after that

00:02:21.740 So he transfers his commission to the Navy, which I didn't even know you could do.

00:02:27.100 Goes to BUDS, which is the first thing you have to do when you go to become a Navy SEAL.

00:02:33.740 And he spent 19 and a half years in before he died and was six months away from his pension.

00:02:39.500 And by all accounts, he was on the admiral tract.

00:02:42.340 He was supposed to go to school up in Rhode Island in June of 2013 because that's, I guess, a prerequisite.

00:02:49.760 Yes, it is.

00:02:50.540 Naval War College.

00:02:52.140 Yep.

00:02:53.080 So he excelled at every level, which is not surprising.

00:03:01.840 But, you know, and I'm learning all this over the last seven years, but in the SEALs, you don't, if you're an officer, you have to fill certain billets, certain roles on your trajectory upward.

00:03:14.360 So there's certain boxes you got to check.

00:03:16.580 You serve in this role.

00:03:17.840 You serve in that role.

00:03:18.660 And then they want you, if you're going to become an admiral, you have to run a team.

00:03:22.080 So, he became the commander of SEAL Team 4, which is one of the East Coast, Virginia Beach SEAL teams.

00:03:29.220 The even numbers are East Coast, the odds are West.

00:03:33.040 And right after he got command, they got deployed to Afghanistan in 2012.

00:03:42.140 And then he died December 22nd, 2012 in Afghanistan.

00:03:46.400 After how many months in the country?

00:03:48.660 I believe they got there in September, so three months, roughly.

00:03:53.180 So tell us the—did he have a family, by the way?

00:03:56.800 Yes.

00:03:57.800 He had a daughter who was nine, and his wife—he loved his wife and his child very much.

00:04:06.980 And, you know, this was—he died three days before Christmas.

00:04:10.420 So give us the Wikipedia version of how he died.

00:04:13.100 What's the official version?

00:04:14.420 The official version is suicide.

00:04:16.740 They say that the deployment was in the middle of the war, of the GWAT era, 2012, smack dab in the middle.

00:04:25.220 And he had a couple of guys get killed, SEALs, and then a couple of Army guys get killed, all separate incidents.

00:04:33.900 But he struggled a little bit with that.

00:04:37.480 And they said he was depressed.

00:04:39.100 And, you know, I've been depressed.

00:04:42.480 And we're sitting here talking.

00:04:43.880 I didn't kill myself.

00:04:44.680 So it's not a, there's not a direct link between depression and suicide.

00:04:51.920 But he was found in his bunk where the gunshot went to his head and the gun's still in his hand.

00:04:57.960 And, you know, to a layman, that may look like suicide.

00:05:02.400 Yep.

00:05:03.240 And for a lot of years, that's just what it was.

00:05:06.000 How many deployments had he had?

00:05:07.120 I want to say 14 total but not not all to war zones but for the deployments have it they do a

00:05:16.540 mission but it's not necessarily a wartime mission you know they'll do a boarding a commercial vessel

00:05:21.320 that's you know the pirates are on or whatever so um but he had done one in Iraq and one in

00:05:29.220 Afghanistan but this was his first command level deployment so they just said he was depressed and

00:05:35.920 decided to take his life how old was he 42 career naval officer commander seal team four

00:05:44.320 kills himself is that a common profile it's never happened right um so the guys that kill

00:05:50.800 themselves the military is like some pfc drunk i mean there's a lot of suicide in the military

00:05:57.560 obviously not many in theater though and of and of command level officers zero right in in the

00:06:04.320 entire g watt era he would have been the only one um and that's you know i i when i heard it was

00:06:10.840 suicide again i wasn't i didn't have an emotional connection to joe we weren't tight yeah so it was

00:06:16.800 sad obviously but i didn't have this visceral response right that i felt like i needed to

00:06:22.680 mourn or anything like that it just was what it was and i went on with my life until 2019 when

00:06:28.440 his family did he have a psychiatric history none zero there was that there was no um notes there

00:06:35.700 was no conversations there was no um forewarnings of any type that he had any inclination to kill

00:06:43.500 himself was he intoxicated when he died no he had um and this is he was a vehemently was against

00:06:52.800 medicines yeah like he just didn't like taking medicines but apparently he uh was on valium

00:06:58.640 benadryl and tramadol that was in his system um totally not normal for him and only one of them

00:07:09.800 was actually on the books prescribed so we don't know where the other where the access

00:07:16.200 described the valium he because he wasn't sleeping yeah um low dose very low dose valium

00:07:21.700 um you know and over there it's not like good with cbs here i mean there's right but there is

00:07:29.920 there is a a tracking mechanism to who gets issued what for what um but i'm sure there is

00:07:35.640 moments where that's not recorded but joe would not want it not recorded like that's not his

00:07:42.720 he's the commander it's he does he sets the tone he's he's the guy that that follows all the rules

00:07:48.640 and uh so i just i'm not 100 sure if those were prescribed to him or not why was his name job

00:07:58.000 uh i i didn't ask his dad this but knowing his dad that he died two years ago unfortunately um

00:08:05.440 But I got to really know him.

00:08:07.120 He was a great man.

00:08:09.040 And knowing their faith and knowing the family nature of their family, it's just Job, his sister, and mom and dad.

00:08:21.040 He was named after the biblical character, Job.

00:08:24.960 When you exhibit, if you knew Job and you read the story of Job, you'd be like, that's that guy.

00:08:29.500 Really?

00:08:30.140 Yeah.

00:08:30.580 Patient.

00:08:31.320 Yeah.

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00:08:32.180 Yes.

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00:11:14.820 canada so you hear at some point that your high school classmate who you admired but we're not

00:11:22.920 intimately close with dies after this impressive career he kills himself in afghanistan as a leader

00:11:28.740 of seal team four and at what point do you decide maybe that's not true i immediately didn't think

00:11:37.080 it was true only because it didn't fit who he was like that just it made no sense to me but again i

00:11:42.540 didn't have a reason to to spend a lot of time on it and but 2019 i was i had a podcast at the time

00:11:49.660 and I wanted to have a sister on

00:11:51.180 to basically say who Job was to her.

00:11:54.540 Not just, not a bio thing,

00:11:55.940 but just like my brother was this person.

00:11:57.700 You know, I wrote a book about my brother

00:11:59.660 because I wanted my brother's name

00:12:01.400 to be remembered forever.

00:12:03.120 And I wanted her to have that ability

00:12:05.900 to have something that she could have

00:12:07.340 and a recording of

00:12:08.200 and her telling her brother's story.

00:12:10.600 And she said to me,

00:12:12.460 can we meet with my dad first?

00:12:14.600 I'm like, okay.

00:12:16.360 So I go over there

00:12:17.140 and he hands me a three ring binder

00:12:19.560 with 356 pages of military reports

00:12:23.440 and says, this is Job's death book.

00:12:26.480 And I don't think he committed suicide.

00:12:29.560 I said, okay.

00:12:30.560 And he goes, well, you take a look at it.

00:12:32.400 I was still a cop at the time.

00:12:33.660 And I said, certainly.

00:12:35.380 And I said, but I need to be real honest with you.

00:12:37.300 If I think it's suicide,

00:12:38.380 I'm going to tell you it's suicide.

00:12:40.240 He goes, that's fair enough.

00:12:41.060 I just want somebody that I trust to look at it.

00:12:44.100 So I looked at it for about a week.

00:12:45.320 It's pretty common, as you know, as a cop,

00:12:46.800 to hear from surviving family members

00:12:49.360 of someone who commits suicide,

00:12:51.120 I don't think it's a suicide.

00:12:52.260 Right.

00:12:52.780 Oh, everybody.

00:12:53.560 That's a...

00:12:54.280 Yeah, I've heard it a million times.

00:12:56.240 So I review it for about a week.

00:12:59.420 And what I realized was

00:13:01.480 is that basically the book,

00:13:04.180 the death book was like a puzzle.

00:13:05.940 The box on the cover has a picture

00:13:08.040 and the pages in between

00:13:10.860 were supposed to make me believe

00:13:12.300 that Job killed himself.

00:13:15.000 And what I got was

00:13:16.720 a thousand piece puzzle set with 250 pieces so i couldn't create the picture that joe killed

00:13:22.000 himself so i told his dad i said i can't say suicide based on the information that's in this

00:13:27.140 book um i would need to dig more and he goes do you mind doing that i said no i don't he goes do

00:13:33.440 you want me to pay you i said i i don't sell hope i said so i i don't need any money i'll just do

00:13:39.040 this and at the time i wasn't expecting seven years of my life devoted to it but right um i

00:13:45.160 I thought I was just going to do a little digging and search the internet and find some information.

00:13:49.380 Thankfully, we don't have a clear picture of the path before us.

00:13:52.080 Yes.

00:13:53.240 Would have been a hard stop, probably.

00:13:54.880 I'm not going to lie.

00:13:57.060 So, yeah, it just began this journey for truth into finding out what happened to Job.

00:14:02.420 And the more I got exposed to sources and there's a group of people that have been investigating Navy SEAL corruption from former members of the community.

00:14:15.160 intelligence agencies federal and state law enforcement that are all in this little network

00:14:21.320 of people that have been doing this for three decades since marsenko um who was creator of

00:14:28.520 seal team six famed seal um dirty as the day is long but um once i got into that network i

00:14:37.080 was exposed to them i got exposed to everything i don't want to sidetrack you but can you just

00:14:41.640 give us the marcinko overview with the wikipedia version yeah he was uh you know creator seal team

00:14:48.440 six which is dev development group yep um the elite tier one element of navy seals and uh

00:14:57.880 he he created the brand of the navy seals he wrote books um i read so i can't i i know i've

00:15:04.600 never read any of his books to be honest with you but they're they're all how do you make a seal look

00:15:09.800 good you know one and uh but he was i mean he was in epstein files um well known that he was running

00:15:18.360 drugs and and women with quarter cartels which is a common theme tune with special operations

00:15:24.920 guys going down and whether it's for guns for hire or whatever but training cartels and tactics and

00:15:30.840 techniques and procedures which you would think is probably counterproductive to the sovereignty

00:15:37.640 of our country, but who am I to judge?

00:15:40.520 But Dick Marcinko was the creator

00:15:42.100 of the Navy SEAL brand.

00:15:44.160 And you believe it's been established

00:15:46.060 that he was corrupt in a deep way?

00:15:48.760 Very much so.

00:15:50.760 And again, I'm not a firsthand witness

00:15:54.460 to any of that,

00:15:55.720 but having spoken to people who were,

00:15:58.720 it's very clear that he was the godfather

00:16:01.220 of all of it.

00:16:03.120 He had a very deep and influential

00:16:07.160 control over a lot of pieces of the Navy SEAL brand and then also our government.

00:16:14.760 Like he had, he was just very, very wily and conniving and smart.

00:16:19.860 He's gone.

00:16:20.560 He passed a couple years ago, yeah.

00:16:22.860 But up until his death, he was still very much an integral part of like things didn't

00:16:27.600 happen without his blessing.

00:16:29.580 So.

00:16:31.000 Interesting.

00:16:31.760 Yeah.

00:16:32.280 I think most people are totally unaware of that.

00:16:34.880 Yeah.

00:16:35.460 It's, listen, I wish I was unaware of it.

00:16:37.160 So you basically got pulled into this story because the father of your classmate asked you to take a closer look at what happened.

00:16:48.280 Yeah, and once I reviewed it and told him I'd start digging, I said, here's what I can promise you.

00:16:54.100 I said, I'll find the answer.

00:16:56.240 I said, and I won't stop until I do.

00:17:00.020 With that said, what do you think now, having spent seven years looking at this, what do you think happened?

00:17:07.160 to job price i know 100 certainty he did not kill himself um the one thing and i'll and once we get

00:17:14.480 to the actual details of the crime um you'll you'll see it clearly but

00:17:18.920 forensics there's certain things you can do to make a scene look a certain way

00:17:27.540 and still screw it up and job's body was staged nobody heard a gunshot in an occupied building

00:17:36.220 um overnight where there was an operation center that was 24 7 right on the other side of the wall

00:17:42.160 of his bedroom in a war zone nobody heard a gunshot um the gun job was holding was not suppressed

00:17:49.400 it was unable to be suppressed didn't have a threaded barrel it was a sig 226 um in nine

00:17:54.760 millimeter nine millimeter and um he was shot in the same position that he slept in every night

00:18:03.200 he was naked which is how he slept on his left side with a pillow in the crook of his left arm

00:18:11.260 and that's how he was shot and yeah I've been on a lot of suicides in my career

00:18:19.720 and it's not all but I will tell you that a vast majority of suicides have some

00:18:25.440 it's either immediately reactionary where like you walk in on your wife having an affair

00:18:29.980 and you go out and kill yourself.

00:18:31.960 But most of the time,

00:18:33.220 if there's a pre-planning involved,

00:18:36.600 you wouldn't pre-plan it to do it while you're sleeping.

00:18:40.620 Just doesn't, the scene didn't make sense.

00:18:43.720 And that was the first thing that stuck out to me

00:18:45.180 when I saw the crime scene photos,

00:18:46.440 but it just didn't make sense.

00:18:48.220 And he was found, he was shot on his left side,

00:18:50.020 so he was shot from the right to the left,

00:18:51.880 downward in a 45 degree angle.

00:18:54.280 But he was found laying on his back

00:18:56.020 with the gun still in his hand across his chest

00:18:58.760 and his head facing to the right,

00:19:01.340 which is the opposite of the direction his head was in when he was shot.

00:19:08.000 That, to me, I couldn't figure out, like, just physics,

00:19:11.820 how his body could have gotten there.

00:19:13.740 And then there was just missing pieces.

00:19:15.480 There was no ballistics reports in the documents that I was given by the father

00:19:19.680 and no gunshot residue testing lab results,

00:19:23.420 no DNA trace evidence, blood, skin, hair testing.

00:19:28.760 done at least i didn't have the reports for it and that took me almost four years to get

00:19:35.720 because you just keep getting kicked down the lane when you do foias and if you're not playing

00:19:39.160 the exact right department of the exact right agency you're not going to get the answer you're

00:19:43.400 looking for so finally i was able to get those reports and those reports told me that job didn't

00:19:49.720 kill himself and there was no gunshot residue testing done on his hands which is the only place

00:19:56.440 you really need to do GSR testing on is to prove whether somebody shot a gun or not.

00:20:02.680 There was no proof that Job fired a gun, which is vital to concluding either someone did or

00:20:10.360 did not kill themselves. There was no testing done for, not to get graphic, but when you commit

00:20:19.560 suicide with a contact wound, there's going to be a reverse explosion coming outward for blood,

00:20:25.720 hair skin brain bone is going to come back because of the gases as they hit a solid contact it just

00:20:32.520 spreads out and then the impact and the the velocity of the bullet and it just creates

00:20:38.680 blood and everything coming back at you so there was very little blood on job

00:20:43.240 on his hand his his right hand um and the gun was never tested for any of those trace evidence

00:20:50.680 things so for me that that's a why wouldn't you test it like how would you not want to know that

00:20:58.040 that was the gun and then the ballistics only thing the ballistics showed was the gun the

00:21:02.440 bullet and the casing that was found came from that gun but there was no proof that that gun

00:21:06.840 was ever used in that room they had these um in order to keep people from having accidental

00:21:12.840 negligent discharges they had like a a place where you can pull your trigger and make sure

00:21:17.640 sure your gun's cleared and so you're not going into the the building with a loaded weapon

00:21:23.660 very easily you could empty that take that gun fire it in there retrieve the bullet

00:21:30.380 retrieve the casing and the gun and put it in the room and yes they they go together but doesn't

00:21:36.960 mean they were ever used in the commission of any type of violent act and so those were things that

00:21:41.520 really started to shape things up for me um but it wasn't until you know let me back up real quick

00:21:50.200 one thing and this will just astound you and listen i understand ncis on tv is not ncis in real life

00:21:56.700 when job was found dead at 9 30 ish in the morning by the same guy that found the last saw him alive

00:22:06.720 and they everybody you know he got all the other command staff people and they all

00:22:11.760 agreed job was dead brought in the ncis agent who just happened to be in the building

00:22:16.420 and the doc to pronounce him dead typically in law enforcement if you have a crime scene

00:22:22.900 because at this point when you find somebody dead it's a crime scene until it's proven not to be a

00:22:27.120 crime right um they all agree's dead they leave the nci agent ncis agent locks the door and gives

00:22:38.080 the key to the guy that found him dead who was a seal and said don't let anybody in this room

00:22:43.060 we'll be back with more guys and nine hours later ncis came back so for nine hours job's body laid

00:22:51.460 there in his bed in his room with all of the suspects having access to that room and in law

00:23:00.440 enforcement once it's a crime scene it's your crime scene there's no relinquishing it to non-law

00:23:04.360 enforcement until properly relieved that's a crime scene the law enforcement must be in control of

00:23:08.560 it at all times or else any evidence that would come from it if there's if a crime had occurred

00:23:12.820 you wouldn't be able to prove anything because it would all be fruit of the poisonous tree you

00:23:16.460 couldn't you couldn't use it there was no crime scene integrity um chain of custody of evidence

00:23:21.560 like you just couldn't nothing could ever be proven which was their greatest knowing now that

00:23:27.840 it was a homicide the greatest thing they did was create a scenario where evidence could never point

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00:25:36.220 tc you know what i'm saying of course um and then immediately after relinquishing the body

00:25:43.980 after they did the crime scene investigation itself nine hours later they bagged his hands

00:25:50.700 in the room for preserve evidence on his hands which is standard um and the ncis agent told

00:25:57.100 same guy that found him dead the command master chief his name was jeff peeler

00:26:01.340 um and i say was for a reason he was told not to touch joe's body

00:26:08.140 and joe's body gets taken out by the medical people and the ncis agent forgot to put a bloody

00:26:18.420 bed sheet in his with his belongings that go into the body bag so it can all get tested when it goes

00:26:23.740 back to dover for the medical examiner and when he walked in they were washing joe's entire body

00:26:31.340 from head to toe.

00:26:33.300 They took the bags off his hands,

00:26:35.040 scrubbed his hands,

00:26:37.100 washed every part of his body,

00:26:39.020 literally all evidence down the drain.

00:26:40.940 Who was they?

00:26:42.740 The medical people at the direction of Jeff Peeler.

00:26:46.440 And Jeff's excuse was

00:26:48.640 he wanted Job to have a dignified return flight home.

00:26:53.560 The problem is they put the evidence bags,

00:26:55.400 new evidence bags, back on his hands,

00:26:57.360 which is a deceitful thing.

00:27:00.760 Like, if you remove evidence bags, wash somebody's hands and put new evidence bags on, you want whoever is going to be receiving that body to think that they've been not touched.

00:27:10.780 Right.

00:27:11.180 That's the assumption that the evidence bags sealed present.

00:27:17.340 So, all those things, and I knew a lot of those things early on, minus the reports that I didn't have, which were, you know, the big red flags.

00:27:27.000 You know, nine hours of unsecured crime scene is a big problem for me as a police officer.

00:27:33.140 But in 2024, I started to get some traction on some podcasts and people were knowing more about Job.

00:27:42.880 And, you know, I would talk about a lot of things, but always Job was the focus of the episodes that I was on.

00:27:50.200 And forensic people who follow these, more of the vet bro podcast world, started to reach out to me and ask if I'd let them take a look at everything I had.

00:28:04.160 Once I vetted who they were, I had no problem doing that.

00:28:07.520 The more eyes, the better.

00:28:08.500 I'm not a forensics guy.

00:28:09.420 I'm just a cop.

00:28:11.620 And I had five, four forensic investigators, so guys that actually work crime scenes.

00:28:17.420 And then a forensic, let me get his title exactly right, forensics, criminology.

00:28:29.860 He's a forensic science and PhD in criminology.

00:28:33.940 His name is Brent Turvey, who was recently on the Idaho four college kids that were murdered.

00:28:43.140 Yep.

00:28:43.280 Yeah. So, he worked for the defense on that as their forensic expert, one of their forensic experts.

00:28:49.620 But anyways, he reviewed it, too.

00:28:52.680 And every single one of them, the four investigators and the doctor guy, all concluded that it was murder.

00:29:00.900 So, all of the things that I knew as my gut-wise, just from experience, I knew now that I hadn't been convincing myself of something that wasn't true.

00:29:11.160 Now I know that it's true.

00:29:12.980 And then I've spent the last two years

00:29:14.360 trying to get the United States government to care

00:29:17.540 and reopen the case.

00:29:19.060 I've had Congress people write letters to the Navy

00:29:21.760 and the Navy keeps coming back.

00:29:23.100 We're satisfied with our investigation.

00:29:26.420 If he wants to send in any information,

00:29:28.200 he can send it through the tip line,

00:29:30.100 which I'm sure quickly will be responded to.

00:29:34.180 Yeah, the unmonitored tip line.

00:29:37.600 Okay, so what you're describing, if true,

00:29:40.560 would be a fairly complex operation.

00:29:43.980 And so it would require motive, I would think.

00:29:48.520 Like, would I go to the trouble to murder a man

00:29:50.560 and cover it up and take the risk

00:29:52.160 and all of that without a real reason?

00:29:55.740 And what would the reason be, do you think?

00:29:58.620 Well, it's evolved.

00:30:00.460 Initially, I was looking at it

00:30:02.960 from a individual moment perspective,

00:30:06.380 like this happened, which caused this.

00:30:08.340 This happened, which caused that.

00:30:10.560 There were multiple things that happened on that deployment that could have played a role in someone or some group of people wanting to hurt Job.

00:30:23.020 When Job, before he deployed as the commander of SEAL Team 4, he went to the same area because SEAL Team 2 was the team they relieved.

00:30:32.520 And he was there just sort of getting the lay of the land, meeting with their commander, knowing the locals, meeting the police chief, the guy in charge of the province, who's a terrorist, and just getting to understand what's going on.

00:30:47.800 And at this time, in June of 2012, there was an Afghan detainee that was killed by four SEALs.

00:30:56.620 While detained?

00:30:58.180 While detained, yeah.

00:30:59.340 Tortured and killed.

00:31:01.700 Um, and Job was brought in on that to look over the evidence and make his recommendation, not official, but the commander of SEAL Team 2 wanted his input and Job recommended court-martial for all of them.

00:31:18.360 And during this, the same period of time, the Taliban, there was intercept, a signal intercept of chatter of them talking about wanting to get retribution against the SEALs for what they did to one of their villagers.

00:31:31.700 Now, why was he killed, the detainee?

00:31:34.140 They thought, well, they said that he was a suspect in a bomb going off.

00:31:38.840 Yeah.

00:31:39.240 But it wasn't, he wasn't the person.

00:31:41.480 They ended up letting him go, and he died two hours after they let him go back in his village.

00:31:45.860 From his injuries.

00:31:46.440 From his injuries, yeah.

00:31:48.800 So, fast forward to November, when Job is now commander of SEAL Team 4,

00:31:54.500 and they've already relieved SEAL Team 2,

00:31:56.400 and they moved the forward operating base from where it was to about 60 kilometers away,

00:32:00.500 but still within the operating area of the local Taliban.

00:32:06.380 And one of his guys was killed in an ambush.

00:32:10.640 And that was the retribution for what happened with their villager,

00:32:16.320 with SEAL Team 2.

00:32:17.620 And Joe was unaware of this signals intelligence that was intercepted,

00:32:20.880 that there was a potential for that type of event to happen.

00:32:25.880 And also at this period of time, you know, it's 2012,

00:32:28.320 winning hearts and minds was important

00:32:32.440 for many reasons

00:32:34.280 some not valid

00:32:35.040 and village stability operations

00:32:37.200 were happening all the time

00:32:38.160 and they're trying to help these villagers

00:32:39.700 and get them sustaining themselves

00:32:43.060 and interfacing with the local mullahs

00:32:46.860 and things of that nature.

00:32:48.880 Well, Job had to deal with this guy

00:32:52.160 named Matula Khan

00:32:53.220 who was the local police chief

00:32:56.040 in the Erzeghan province.

00:32:57.240 Very powerful man, former, you know, drug smuggler and human trafficker before he became the police chief, quote unquote.

00:33:05.320 And one of the things that Job really struggled with was having to deal with this guy because he knew that there was underage kids being trafficked and that drugs, you know, this is, I think you had John Kiriakou on.

00:33:16.020 Yep.

00:33:16.440 Talking about the poppy fields and how the CIA paid, you know, farmers in Afghanistan to not grow crops and grow poppies.

00:33:24.320 And by 2012, 93% of the heroin in the world was coming out of the poppy fields of Afghanistan.

00:33:34.480 And it's a very well-known fact that the SEALs, part of their responsibility was to protect those poppy fields.

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00:34:49.960 Can I ask you to pause?

00:34:50.940 I've never understood the reasoning there.

00:34:53.120 Why would the U.S. government promote heroin?

00:34:58.940 Opium.

00:35:00.140 I, you know, that's a deep, deep conversation.

00:35:05.900 But it's, you know, similar to Vietnam, right?

00:35:07.900 So, like, there's always been a desire to neuter people.

00:35:16.140 whether it's their will to thrive or whatever.

00:35:19.360 And drugs are a very, very good way to do that.

00:35:21.860 Yeah, I'm seeing it in our own country.

00:35:24.240 We're being neutered by drugs on purpose.

00:35:26.660 And I think, you know,

00:35:27.640 whether it was intended for Americans to be neutered

00:35:30.900 or the enemy in Russia or China

00:35:33.900 or wherever that they were planning on having that,

00:35:36.540 wherever that was going,

00:35:38.200 the 93% was going around the world.

00:35:40.580 It wasn't just coming to America.

00:35:41.980 So there probably is some.

00:35:44.060 Yeah, but it's probably that simple.

00:35:45.280 is if you seek to dominate people,

00:35:47.020 get them on drugs.

00:35:47.720 Yeah.

00:35:48.280 I mean, that's the,

00:35:50.080 if you see a red car, it's a red car, right?

00:35:52.220 So for me,

00:35:53.400 Atkins Razor, I guess that's called.

00:35:54.800 I think that's right.

00:35:56.920 So Job struggled with that.

00:35:58.940 And I think ultimately

00:36:01.220 the thing that got him killed,

00:36:02.440 while there was an incident

00:36:03.560 where one of the guys in his unit

00:36:05.520 had raped an Afghani teen

00:36:09.020 and another guy

00:36:12.240 who was a former SEAL Team 6 guy

00:36:13.600 who rolled in from SEAL Team 2

00:36:15.740 was attached to two

00:36:16.760 and then got given to Job as well

00:36:19.360 was stealing ASAT money,

00:36:21.580 which is the CIA money

00:36:24.000 that special operations would get

00:36:26.040 and they're using it to pay off people.

00:36:27.920 For the tribal leaders, yeah.

00:36:29.620 The famous pallets of $100 bills.

00:36:32.520 But back to something you just said,

00:36:34.400 one of his men,

00:36:35.700 one of his SEALs in SEAL Team 4

00:36:37.080 raped an Afghan girl, I assume.

00:36:40.660 Was he court-martialed for this?

00:36:43.600 no um because so job was struggling with a lot of things like a lot of things had to be dealt with

00:36:51.360 three days before he died he talked with his wife and he said she asked how he was doing he said

00:36:55.560 yeah there's a lot of things happening that i'm gonna have to deal with when i get back

00:36:58.260 and she didn't she knew you know she's the wife of a seal commander so she knows not to ask

00:37:03.000 right specific questions um and roughly two weeks before he died the entire hierarchy of group two

00:37:11.820 which is the overseeing entity of the East Coast SEALs.

00:37:18.120 Tim Szymanski, who was the Admiral,

00:37:21.000 and two other high-level people within group two

00:37:24.940 came to Afghanistan and met with Job

00:37:29.600 for like a very short trip.

00:37:31.880 And I have witness statements stating

00:37:35.460 that there was a heated argument

00:37:37.320 between Tim Szymanski and Job a few days later.

00:37:41.820 10 days, two weeks before his death.

00:37:45.960 If I had to, you know, I don't have specific proof of this,

00:37:49.580 but if I had to guess what that conversation was about,

00:37:52.480 it was about Job wanting to report everything that happened.

00:37:58.960 From the rape to the stolen money to the mullah,

00:38:03.900 you know, trafficking drugs and kids and the poppy fields.

00:38:06.620 And I think he was told, because he was, like I said earlier,

00:38:10.600 he was on the admiral track and i think they said if you want to have a career you're just

00:38:15.160 going to keep your mouth shut and you're going to get your next gig after you're done being

00:38:19.880 the commander seal team four and we'll go to college in june and you'll become an admiral

00:38:25.000 so big picture what we're seeing is 11 years into the afghan war order and discipline are

00:38:29.240 starting to break down people are getting cynical you know it's just like what happens if a war

00:38:33.320 goes on long enough it's not really about what it started no uh in response to so and that

00:38:40.520 you know i am not critical like i understand war i i understand the mechanics of it yep um and i'm

00:38:49.400 not necessarily uh criticizing the seals for doing their jobs in battle like that you may go over the

00:38:55.480 line a couple times you may but after 11 years things are likely to fall apart yeah and i think

00:39:00.360 you send people out enough times to do animal stuff they become animals and boy that's the

00:39:06.440 the truest thing ever said i think that's i having the luxury of being exposed to many events that

00:39:13.380 have occurred over the last 20 years within the seal community that's that's the most logical

00:39:19.160 cause and effect um and then but then there's a sinister side to it where there is you know

00:39:24.900 a mafia level hierarchy within the navy seals on the corrupt side that will use guys i had an

00:39:33.820 I had a SEAL Team 6 guy, bare a soul to me, telling me about how on ops, they were told to kill everybody.

00:39:43.820 Women, children, everybody on a target they were at.

00:39:48.460 And after they did that, they were then asked to do things like, take this to this person, this mullus.

00:39:56.400 And when they say they don't want to do that unless they know what they're taking, they're like, well, then you're going to be written up as a,

00:40:01.540 You're going to be court-martialed as a war criminal for killing all those people because you did that on your own, even though it was a direct order from the higher up.

00:40:11.160 So they would, they use all of those little mechanisms of manipulation and, and keeping a thumb on guys.

00:40:17.660 It's an initiation, right?

00:40:19.720 Very much so.

00:40:20.660 And there's, you know, they target certain personalities within their teams, especially in SEAL Team 6.

00:40:27.080 What does that mean?

00:40:27.700 So we talked about this at breakfast that, you know, there was in the 80s, the people they were recruiting to be Navy SEALs when there was no war going on were more of the military bearing, rule following, traditional leader type person.

00:40:45.840 Once the GWAT started, they were recruiting, you know, the high school wrestler with an anger issue, maybe got in some trouble with law and has no dad.

00:40:54.400 But that was the profile they started to recruit because they knew that those guys were looking for something to belong to.

00:41:01.200 They were looking for something with a greater purpose that allowed them to use their anger and their rage in a legal, quote-unquote, legal productive way.

00:41:11.240 They started recruiting emotionally stunted guys.

00:41:13.680 Yes, very much so.

00:41:15.980 Yeah, it really shows, I must say.

00:41:20.460 Wow.

00:41:21.020 Wow. So, Tim Szymanski, Admiral, commanding SEAL Team 2, is that?

00:41:28.100 No, he was Group 2. He was the overall boss at that time.

00:41:34.980 Who is he exactly?

00:41:36.460 He is an acolyte of Dick Marcinko.

00:41:41.560 I've never met the man, but his reputation precedes him.

00:41:45.640 and everything i've been told about him from the community which i'm now part of in this

00:41:51.240 seal corruption exposure group of people um is that he's the the queen bee he's he's the one

00:41:58.920 that runs the show he's the one that creates the um the brand while seals and then after they're

00:42:07.780 done being seals you know there's there's plenty of vertical markets that the seals are in um that

00:42:14.780 make a lot of money and just like a multi-level marketing scheme money gets kicked up the chain

00:42:22.580 kind of like the mob um and and from what i'm told um allegedly tim samansky is the leader of that

00:42:30.800 and there's enough is he a civilian at this point yeah he's retired retired admiral um

00:42:39.220 Um, and I, again, I, I only care about Job, but in order for people to care about Job, other than me, I had to be exposed to all the other stuff because there was nobody front facing their work.

00:42:56.440 It was all behind the scenes.

00:42:57.840 It was all, um, surreptitiously investigated because these guys, a lot of these SEALs don't want to go against the brand.

00:43:06.860 Yeah.

00:43:06.960 They don't want to come out and, you know, it pisses me off because I'm out here, Joe, small town cop from Potsdam, Pennsylvania, taking the arrows, doing the heavy lifting.

00:43:17.320 Yeah.

00:43:17.720 And, you know, I would love them to come out and defend and fight for the community that they love and the country that they love.

00:43:27.960 But they needed me to be the face and the voice for the things that they were investigating.

00:43:34.220 So I had the opportunity to interview Rob O'Neill for six hours.

00:43:38.080 And that interview, which was on the J Slay USA podcast, great podcast, by the way, you'd love him.

00:43:46.660 Jeremy Slayton, former AAA baseball player in the Phillies organization.

00:43:54.780 That interview, those six hours of interviews, because we did the Bin Laden raid interview, and then we talked about Job.

00:44:00.740 We talked about Extortion 17.

00:44:02.820 We talked about Marks Luttrell with Lone Survivor.

00:44:08.620 And actually, Rob admitted that he believed that Job's death was a cover-up and that it wasn't suicide.

00:44:14.300 And I give him credit for saying that because Rob, while he has faults and while many people don't believe that he's the one that shot Bin Laden first,

00:44:23.140 which everybody I've talked to leads me to believe that's true.

00:44:28.700 But I wasn't there, so I don't really know who did what.

00:44:31.340 But to his credit, he isn't afraid to say things about other things within his community, which I do appreciate.

00:44:41.400 We may not agree on the Bin Laden thing, but I do appreciate him being honest during those interviews.

00:44:47.120 And those interviews are what created the opportunity for me to expand myself on podcasts and to get Job's name out more and to get those forensics people to reach out to me.

00:44:56.700 And, you know, Dr. Turvey, you know, he wrote his, he has a bunch of points that he wrote when he reviewed the case.

00:45:06.040 You know, Job's body was moved twice after he was dead.

00:45:09.820 There are three distinct dried blood flow patterns on his head, which can't happen in an instantaneous death.

00:45:17.200 You know, the bullet enters the brain, it lights out immediately.

00:45:20.300 You can't move two more times.

00:45:22.520 The casing was found under Job's butt, his tailbone area.

00:45:26.700 It's impossible to have happened in the position which he was shot.

00:45:32.640 The bullet wound up in the upper left corner by the head of the bed.

00:45:38.320 If you're standing at the foot of the bed, upper left corner, where under his bed were pelican boxes.

00:45:44.100 And the only place that didn't have a pelican box was the upper left corner.

00:45:48.240 And the blood from Job's head had pulled under there.

00:45:52.160 And the bullet was found in that pool of blood.

00:45:56.700 They didn't test that bullet for anything other than the DNA of the blood.

00:46:01.300 There was no testing for brain, skin, skull, fragments, nothing.

00:46:09.200 Bullet was intact?

00:46:10.820 It was, you know, crushed down, but it was intact enough to know that it was a 9mm ball ammo that they were issued.

00:46:19.400 um but the the one thing that's very I don't have an answer to but it I kind of do have an answer

00:46:27.260 to is that during his autopsy there's photos of his head where there is a distinct semi-circle

00:46:33.740 uh the same diameter as the face of a suppressor and you know I in 2002 I was introduced to Pete

00:46:43.720 Hagseth. And he was still at Fox at the time. And I asked him for help, helped get exposure,

00:46:51.480 introduced me to people. We even talked about you. And I said, anything you can do to help me?

00:46:57.100 And so I sent him everything I had at the time and he reviewed it and he agreed. I have text

00:47:01.960 messages that I released to the Washington Post for the article that was written in June on the

00:47:05.580 front page where he says that there's no way anybody would commit suicide in the position

00:47:10.580 that he was found in and that it was clearly a suppressor was used to kill him well job's gun

00:47:15.600 was unsuppressed so we have a problem how do we how do we justify a suicide when there's potential

00:47:23.820 evidence of a different gun being used to kill him which means it's a homicide on top of the

00:47:31.520 forensics that alone is a is a huge issue for me trying to figure out we need somebody to come up

00:47:38.220 of an answer for that because that's just not, um, you can't just let that be. And, you know,

00:47:43.000 nobody heard a gunshot, which would be why nobody heard a gunshot, right? Could have been a pillow

00:47:47.580 and a suppressor. It could have been many things that, um, muted that, the sound of that, that

00:47:53.580 gun going off. So for me, you know, the forensics were what I needed to validate me that what I had

00:48:01.060 done for the last, you know, five, six years before I got those, those findings were true,

00:48:06.120 that I wasn't on a ghost-chasing mission.

00:48:10.460 And it gave me the peace of mind to know

00:48:14.080 that I didn't have to go out anymore

00:48:15.180 and convince people that Job was murdered.

00:48:18.580 I know Job was murdered.

00:48:20.800 And I know he was murdered by, I can't say,

00:48:24.320 I am 99% sure he was killed by people

00:48:26.720 that had access to that building.

00:48:31.080 Do I know if it was SEALs? No.

00:48:32.920 But I do know that Jeff Peeler,

00:48:35.680 the command master chief who's the top enlisted guy who found him and then ordered his body

00:48:42.960 washed and had control over the crime scene um actually on clayton morris's show and redacted

00:48:48.540 i named uh jeff peeler as the one who orchestrated the cover-up of joe's death and 10 days later he

00:48:55.880 was found dead of a heart attack peeler was at what age 62 maybe something like that

00:49:03.620 by all accounts great shape and again i'm not insinuating anything happened to him it's just

00:49:10.460 very odd timing that i name him publicly on a rather large platform that he's found dead 10

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00:51:24.340 was there have you come across any evidence that peeler was involved in

00:51:32.800 things that he'd want to cover up um no um and and i don't have i mean i have suspects um on who i

00:51:42.680 think were involved i i know jeff peeler knows he knew exactly what happened to job and you know

00:51:50.120 he's a cleanup guy you know he's he's top enlisted guy he's interfaces with the command level guys

00:51:55.380 every day and take protect the integrity of the brand so sketch it out for us without you don't

00:52:03.860 name names if you don't care too since you can't prove it but um what do you believe happened like

00:52:09.580 the people who did kill him who were were they command level people were they who do you believe

00:52:16.260 they were so i believe the guy that the seal team sex guy that stole the money because joe confronted

00:52:21.980 him two days before he died and told him that money had to be returned um i believe he was

00:52:26.920 involved i believe there were a couple guys that um were involved in that raping of the child

00:52:35.420 the team i think there's guys that hated job because two of their buddies died

00:52:42.240 um i think there was a the active mem part the active people in the murder was a small number

00:52:49.800 people the conspiracy to cover it up was a large group of people and you know honestly i believe

00:53:02.120 how do i say this without getting myself sued or killed um i believe that

00:53:07.800 another entity is the one that actually

00:53:11.320 executed job a non-military government entity

00:53:21.140 because of the poppy field heroin thing yep would be if i had another government agency

00:53:32.980 that works with the seals closely yes um and i believe the seal team sex guys an entity that

00:53:40.200 a lot of SEALs go to work for when they leave the Navy.

00:53:41.900 After they leave, yes.

00:53:43.500 Yeah.

00:53:44.260 And I don't have, you know, again, they wash all the-

00:53:47.200 You're talking about the Department of Transportation.

00:53:48.880 Yeah, FAA.

00:53:50.920 FAA.

00:53:52.120 So good.

00:53:53.920 The Forgotten About Agency.

00:53:55.880 That's what we used to call it when I was an air marshal, which was nice because nobody

00:53:59.500 paid attention to you, but then they created Homeland Security and ruined everything.

00:54:03.140 But I digress.

00:54:03.820 Yes. I think there is definitely a thread to pull there that I don't want to pull.

00:54:11.320 I really only want Job's case to be changed from suicide to something not suicide.

00:54:16.660 Because if you think about when Job died, he had a million-dollar life insurance policy that he had gotten on his own.

00:54:23.100 The military gives—they have a $400,000 death benefit.

00:54:26.360 If you die in combat, that automatically gets paid to the family.

00:54:30.840 But he had a million-dollar life insurance policy, plus his six months from getting his pension, plus any, you know, promotions he would have gotten to Admiral and whatever that pay would have been, because that's what his pension would have been based off of.

00:54:44.280 So, we're looking at, you know, $3 million minimum in benefits that his wife and daughter didn't get.

00:54:53.040 Of course, because none of that is triggered by suicide.

00:54:58.080 Correct.

00:54:58.500 You get none of those things when you commit suicide.

00:55:00.460 Oh, wow. Okay.

00:55:02.220 So, it's a meaningful designation, like, practically speaking.

00:55:05.160 Yes. And there's nothing they can do about the life insurance policy because it's already expired, but the government should stroke a check for all of that to make her whole and then do a computer keystroke change and go from suicide to undetermined.

00:55:20.540 I know I'm never going to get homicide. I know that.

00:55:23.900 Well, let's test your theory. So you've described a number of crimes already. You described the murder of a detainee, beaten to death, tortured to death. You've described the rape of a local teenage girl. And you've described the theft of U.S. government funds meant for tribal chiefs. Were any of those investigated and resulted in court-martials?

00:55:49.420 Zero.

00:55:50.220 Okay.

00:55:50.440 And nobody was even investigated for destroying evidence and tampering with evidence.

00:55:54.380 Like, there was absolutely zero accountability for anything that happened on that deployment.

00:55:59.380 But you're pretty confident that those other three crimes you described, the rape, the killing of the detainee, and the theft of those funds, those happened?

00:56:07.580 A hundred percent.

00:56:09.200 And no one was ever held accountable in any way?

00:56:11.620 Nobody.

00:56:11.860 and the ones that that killed the detainee did get court-martialed and were sentenced to jail

00:56:18.380 um ended up having all their charges dropped later on why and all got promoted

00:56:23.820 yeah oh yeah you fail forward in the navy seals wait they were court-martialed convicted

00:56:31.160 and then overturned and then they got promoted uh yes they did is that normal uh not in my world

00:56:38.860 it's not. But apparently in that world, it is. You know, the Navy is renowned when there's a

00:56:43.540 screw up. So you look at lone survivor, right? Mark Sluttrell. It's very well known now that

00:56:48.680 that is not how things actually went. That mission was not like the book in the movie.

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00:58:54.480 Can you just summarize quickly what the real story was?

00:58:57.480 Well, the real story is there was four guys

00:58:59.580 that had no business doing the mission they were being asked to do,

00:59:02.580 they were sub-guys, like underwater diving guys, UDT guys.

00:59:07.760 And they weren't Delta Forces, the land guys, right?

00:59:11.280 They're the ones doing recce-type stuff

00:59:13.740 and going on high-value targets in mountains and things of that nature.

00:59:17.380 And the SEALs from, and we'll talk about John Chapman and Roberts Ridge here as well,

00:59:22.640 if we have time, from 2002 when that happened with John Chapman

00:59:27.700 all the way until the end of the war,

00:59:29.520 the SEALs were taking over

00:59:31.700 the special operations mission tempo.

00:59:35.080 They were doing things

00:59:35.900 that they were not equipped to do training-wise.

00:59:40.640 That's just not what their job was.

00:59:42.640 But then they were doing a lot of urban assaults

00:59:47.700 and not necessarily hitting high-value target houses

00:59:50.900 like you would think they should be doing,

00:59:52.720 just doing basic Marine Corps infantry grunt work

00:59:56.780 they were doing because they wanted to have, I don't want to say that they wanted the thrill

01:00:04.580 to kill, but there is, you don't go into the SEALs and not have a desire to put a feather

01:00:11.400 in your cap and everybody wants to get that first kill.

01:00:14.480 And then once you realize you can get that first kill and there's no judge or jury or

01:00:20.080 anybody oversight, anything could be a weapon.

01:00:23.900 I thought he was picking up a water jug.

01:00:25.700 I thought it was an IED.

01:00:26.520 I killed him. Oh, it was a water jug. You know, things of that nature were happening all the time,

01:00:30.600 and guys were able to get away with things that typically would be considered a war crime because

01:00:38.120 of the environment which dictated, you know, there was a lot of non-traditional weapons

01:00:44.520 being deployed during this time. You know, it gave a lot of latitude and a lot of

01:00:50.280 of freedom of action to the everyday SEAL,

01:00:57.080 and then the cover was created by the command.

01:01:00.020 And Marcus's team was ill-equipped for the job

01:01:05.680 that they were going to do, and it's not their fault.

01:01:07.460 They were sent out on that job.

01:01:08.940 They're not the ones that picked the mission,

01:01:10.380 but what happened there was a complete breakdown of,

01:01:18.060 they didn't know what they were doing up there.

01:01:20.280 and that's you know that's not their fault they were sent out to do something that

01:01:24.840 they weren't trained to do and you know just recently there was a couple guys

01:01:30.200 um chambers and ingram who were trying to board a ship in off the coast of somalia

01:01:36.360 and they drowned and uh turns out that they didn't have the proper pre-deployment training

01:01:44.120 they didn't do the buoyancy testing on their gear and they had way too much

01:01:47.720 gear on and they sank um but that was covered up by the by the government

01:01:54.600 and this just happened yeah within last year or two i think it was um

01:02:04.280 the patterns you know as a sigan analyst my my job was to you know decode things and

01:02:11.160 patterns are very important and when you when you sit back and look at all the patterns that

01:02:14.920 that have been going on since 2002 until the end of the war

01:02:17.580 and how the same key people,

01:02:21.160 granted the SEAL teams are small numbers-wise,

01:02:23.580 comparatively speaking, to the overall military,

01:02:25.420 but how people who are involved in complete and utter failure missions

01:02:30.960 fail forward.

01:02:34.480 If you screw up, you get medals, and then you get promoted.

01:02:38.340 Because why would anybody give a medal or promote somebody who's a screw-up, of course?

01:02:41.920 um well they're the face of the entire empire actually at this point yes yeah yeah right so

01:02:47.300 it's not that there's no real benefit to the u.s government or the people benefiting from these

01:02:53.020 wars to holding anyone in the seal teams accountable because again they're the brand

01:02:58.500 not just of the navy but of like the entire united states government abroad and that and that was a

01:03:05.940 an intentional power grab.

01:03:10.340 And once they got it,

01:03:11.640 they didn't really.

01:03:13.820 John Chapman with Robert's Reg.

01:03:15.300 So we'll talk about that

01:03:16.140 because it'll give a lot of perspective

01:03:17.540 as to how

01:03:18.780 the next 18 years would go.

01:03:23.060 So I want to get to that.

01:03:24.280 But before we do,

01:03:26.140 I want to go back to something you said

01:03:27.480 a while ago.

01:03:29.220 You said that

01:03:29.980 there are all kinds of business verticals

01:03:32.440 that the SEAL teams benefit from.

01:03:35.060 What does that mean?

01:03:35.940 Some are legal. Some are illegal. I have sources who have told me that a lot of drugs, the ASAP money was to buy drugs and they were getting shipped back in military cargo.

01:03:48.480 To the United States.

01:03:49.020 To the United States and then sold on the open market at, you know, a 350% profit, right?

01:03:54.840 Because they didn't spend any of their own money. They used the taxpayer dollar from that ASAP money and bought drugs and had to ship back and then had that, those drugs were sold to, you know, MS-13 and other companies.

01:04:05.940 gangs to distribute on the streets do you believe that happened 100 everyone i mean that it's hard

01:04:11.500 to think of a more appalling crime than that a greater betrayal of our country than our own

01:04:18.800 military importing drugs into our nation to kill our kids i mean i can't think of anything worse

01:04:24.160 than that i really greed and power and i'll give you like you really believe that happened 100

01:04:29.120 100 percent um why do you think that because that's the you know at the have you spoken to

01:04:37.280 people who saw it yes i'd spoken to people who who didn't participate but were in the circles

01:04:46.980 of knowledge and were present when that was happening present in the shipping to the states

01:04:55.660 Yes.

01:04:56.680 Gee whiz.

01:04:58.000 So there's a guy named Staff Sergeant Melgar,

01:04:59.940 who was a special forces guy who was killed by two SEAL Team 6 guys

01:05:04.220 and two Marine Raiders in Mali in 2018.

01:05:08.640 And he had caught the SEAL Team 6 guys stealing ASAP money

01:05:12.240 and buying drugs and diamonds in Mali.

01:05:15.380 And they killed him.

01:05:18.520 And they said it was, they were roughhousing and MMA,

01:05:22.640 but they actually, they broke his heidelbone.

01:05:24.680 And then they did a trach on him after he died to try to make it look like they were trying to save his life, but they were just trying to cover up the fact they broke his, that bone in his neck.

01:05:40.860 So it's not, Job isn't new.

01:05:42.840 Did they get away with it?

01:05:44.340 They did and they didn't.

01:05:48.060 They went to jail, but then their sentences were reduced.

01:05:53.480 Yeah.

01:05:54.680 And they got promoted too, oddly enough.

01:05:58.900 When they got out of jail?

01:06:00.160 While they were in jail, one got promoted.

01:06:04.600 Okay, well, that's, I've never heard this,

01:06:07.620 but you're describing an organization that's completely out of control.

01:06:11.300 Very much so.

01:06:12.260 Because they killed an American?

01:06:14.860 Yeah, another soldier, yes.

01:06:17.520 So Job was 2012, that was 2018.

01:06:19.940 And I don't know how many other instances.

01:06:24.020 I have on very, very good authority from many sources that are called strap hangers.

01:06:32.020 So, the SEALs would look at anybody that was attached to them that would be going out on missions with them, whether it's a CCT, a combat controller from the Air Force, or a PJ, or a TAC-P, or special forces guys.

01:06:44.140 If somebody was going to upset the brand of the Navy SEALs, they were going to rat them out for doing whatever it is they were doing illegally, they would kill them on and out.

01:06:54.020 that that was commonplace that there was a lot of guys who died who were not killed by enemy fire

01:07:01.600 were killed by their own men and that because it's war and because there is no forensics

01:07:12.880 taken on bullets and trajectories and things of that nature nobody looks into it it's just yes

01:07:19.060 He got killed by a rifle round, and he's dead, and he was a hero because he was at war, when in reality, very many times, it was at the hands of their own men.

01:07:32.540 And that is the part that haunts me at night, is knowing that there is a group of people who are supposed to be the good guys, right?

01:07:42.900 We're the good guys.

01:07:44.020 We're supposed to be the good guys.

01:07:45.080 We set the standard.

01:07:45.960 we don't stoop to the level of barbarianism like our enemy does we're supposed to keep a standard

01:07:52.580 and the fact that that's not what's happening is very very disheartening to me as a veteran you

01:07:58.520 know i was in the army four years and cop for 30 years and i believe red white and blue and i'm as

01:08:02.580 conservative as the as the day is long and it it haunts me to think that that's what does it shock

01:08:07.680 you though i mean you spend 20 years prosecuting a totally pointless war like there was no one in

01:08:14.500 charged from the president on down could ever articulate what the point of the afghan

01:08:18.680 occupation was like no one could ever explain the strategy or tactics but like what's the point

01:08:24.260 and so you take guys normal decent americans and you put them in a world where

01:08:29.640 killing is kind of what you do and there's no oversight at all and there's no purpose or meaning

01:08:38.620 or kind of redemptive mission,

01:08:41.440 of course people are going to become evil, right?

01:08:44.740 Yeah, and it's going to corrupt us.

01:08:47.800 And you don't want to look behind that curtain, right?

01:08:49.460 Because it's uncomfortable.

01:08:51.280 And as an American,

01:08:52.420 if I didn't have access to the information I had,

01:08:54.680 I would just be as dumb and blind as everyone else.

01:08:58.580 That's not paying attention at any depth of level.

01:09:00.800 Well, it's by design,

01:09:01.680 because the media on a bipartisan basis,

01:09:03.800 left-wing NBC, right-wing Fox News,

01:09:05.500 both of them promote the military

01:09:07.460 as the best thing this country has.

01:09:09.460 The only really noble institution

01:09:10.900 in the nation is our military.

01:09:13.080 The only thing you can't,

01:09:14.100 you can criticize everybody else.

01:09:16.520 You can't criticize the military.

01:09:18.840 And that's, yes.

01:09:20.640 Why is that?

01:09:21.600 You would think like,

01:09:23.560 you used to say when I was at Fox,

01:09:25.220 they would always say,

01:09:25.680 the left hates the military.

01:09:28.480 Well, I don't notice that.

01:09:30.560 I noticed the left promoting military, actually.

01:09:33.480 Have you noticed that?

01:09:34.360 Yeah, I mean, it's,

01:09:35.300 I don't think there is a left and right anymore.

01:09:38.120 Well, obviously, yeah.

01:09:39.560 I think it's all one big thing,

01:09:41.500 and they just, you know, for theater,

01:09:43.740 picked their side for the topic of the day.

01:09:48.980 I guess because I spent 34 years of my life

01:09:54.080 serving and protecting in some capacity

01:09:57.220 and doing it with honor,

01:09:59.880 and, you know, there isn't anybody

01:10:01.800 that can question my career and what I've done.

01:10:06.440 And I just wish that, you know,

01:10:08.580 that's the way it would be with everybody.

01:10:12.780 But then, you know, I'm an older guy, I'm your age,

01:10:16.620 and I was in the Persian Gulf War.

01:10:18.540 And, you know, there wasn't many wars going on

01:10:20.340 growing up in the 70s and 80s after Vietnam.

01:10:24.360 So there wasn't, I didn't have an exposure.

01:10:27.160 The military was, you went and served so that, you know,

01:10:29.260 whether it was to get college money or to learn a trade or whatever,

01:10:32.320 you didn't weren't,

01:10:32.840 you weren't going to fight a 20 year war.

01:10:35.420 And I think you have to sort of really widen your,

01:10:41.840 your focus to see the greater picture of what happened since 2002 in order to

01:10:49.300 truly understand the magnitude of the exposure that these guys were placed

01:10:56.760 under.

01:10:57.900 And,

01:10:58.560 you know,

01:10:58.660 I have,

01:10:59.260 I have nothing but the utmost respect for all the good and honorable men who serve our country.

01:11:04.540 There's a small handful that are ruining it for everybody.

01:11:06.900 And while I take no pride in exposing this stuff, I also know that the best medicine is probably sunlight in this case.

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01:12:19.060 They don't own it.

01:12:20.420 They don't own the U.S. military.

01:12:22.200 I mean, I respect people's service.

01:12:23.400 i certainly respect their bravery even the bad guys are brave they're all brave huge balls

01:12:27.520 but like it's not their country it's not their military they're doing this on our behalf with

01:12:32.720 our money so who do you think you are yeah bitch you can't you can't act like that under our

01:12:39.820 you know what i'm saying i feel this way about our political class too it's like this doesn't

01:12:44.040 belong to you actually you don't get to wreck it and we've and so we've allowed ourselves to

01:12:51.260 distance ourselves from the very fabric of what makes us ourselves. America is unique

01:12:59.040 more than any other country ever created. And the things that made us unique, we now just

01:13:05.340 complacently accept the opposite of. The greatness, the first to do things, the place where people

01:13:15.220 come from other countries to, to find the American dream, we just sort of accept all

01:13:20.840 that is going to be.

01:13:22.400 And then we don't care to know what's going on in Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 years.

01:13:29.440 We care to not want to know what's going on in our government since, you know, I would

01:13:35.320 say since 19, early 1900s, the, the, how our government has, has become what it is

01:13:42.620 today and you follow those patterns and you see how it got here and I do that and it scares the

01:13:49.440 shit out of me and you know it makes going off the grid make way more sense like sometimes I

01:13:56.920 think the Amish had it all figured out we've just been duped into thinking something else

01:14:01.620 they don't have a lot of autism problems no yeah that's true um well of course I couldn't agree

01:14:07.060 with you more uh so we know that there were you believe you know based on years of reporting that

01:14:18.720 there really are it's not just an urban legend criminal cartels that work within the u.s military

01:14:24.380 yes and then you know they end up going work for ngos which are just a different kind of cartel

01:14:31.160 Right. The Blackwaters, the, you know, there's, there's plenty of NGOs that are doing contract work with ex-special operations guys that are doing things that are not, you know, I don't know if they're illegal, but they're certainly aren't moral.

01:14:45.280 um it's just there's always a pathway for them to take what they did in their time in the service

01:14:56.660 and monetize it outside whether it's starting training companies whether it's um coming you

01:15:03.140 know starting a firearms company whether it's mma gyms um which were the big that was the first

01:15:09.860 vertical was created was the the rise of mma within the special operations community and

01:15:18.180 brazilian jiu-jitsu specifically um you know there's there's always ways there's always money

01:15:25.140 to prop people up you know whether it's buying getting somebody who screws up while they're in

01:15:31.700 the military but they stay loyal to the brand and then they get out and they get a book deal

01:15:40.260 and they write a book of leadership or whatever and all of a sudden it's a new york times best

01:15:46.160 seller not because the book's good because there's money behind it book purchases of books

01:15:53.660 to spike the, the sales, like all that happens. And this is how all these guys end up staying

01:16:01.260 quiet for decades because that gravy train through the SEAL foundation, through other

01:16:07.540 organizations, that is how they stay, um, part of the brotherhood, long live the brotherhood,

01:16:16.180 but also financially. Okay. You know, nobody wants to, nobody wants to take that leap and

01:16:22.260 and go against the grain and then risk all of that and you have to ask yourself very much like

01:16:28.180 what would cause someone to kill their commander what would cause somebody to keep quiet about

01:16:33.380 war crimes for 30 40 50 60 years like what would keep you quiet i know i i couldn't be quiet

01:16:41.620 like i can't i that i my soul would get eaten to death like

01:16:45.220 Like money, power, community, all those things keep these guys, you know, toe in the line.

01:16:56.600 And it's not all of them.

01:16:57.980 I have so many SEALs that are supporting me and quietly telling me, blow it all up because it's the only way it's going to get fixed.

01:17:10.640 Have you had any luck getting the attention of elected officials?

01:17:15.220 The ones who appropriate the money for all of this?

01:17:17.820 I've had, yes, but not of any consequence.

01:17:23.480 I had a representative in the House of Representatives out of Missouri write a letter requesting that they take a look at the case.

01:17:34.920 Got the Go Pound Sand letter back.

01:17:38.000 And Senator McCormick out of Pennsylvania wrote, his office wrote a letter.

01:17:42.740 Got the same response.

01:17:44.580 I have no faith in the government doing their job.

01:17:50.540 You know, Pete Higgs said,

01:17:52.360 the last thing he texted me in April 23

01:17:54.220 before he ghosted me was,

01:17:55.600 if I'm ever in a position to help, I will.

01:17:59.420 Did he wind up in a position to help?

01:18:01.100 He kind of did.

01:18:01.780 You know, the Secretary of Defense,

01:18:03.740 he controls everything

01:18:04.920 within our military industrial complex.

01:18:08.120 And, you know, I've,

01:18:10.000 there has been plenty of conversations

01:18:11.900 with people who are in his sphere

01:18:16.140 who have, on my behalf,

01:18:17.920 spoken and given off-ramps

01:18:20.920 for this Job's case.

01:18:25.100 This was, up until last week,

01:18:27.820 there were negotiations happening.

01:18:30.220 And I told him, Tucker's coming,

01:18:32.420 and if there's going to be a resolution to this

01:18:36.980 in a quiet way,

01:18:38.920 then let's get it done.

01:18:40.800 because if not, I'm going on Tucker

01:18:42.320 and that's just happening.

01:18:43.720 So it didn't get done.

01:18:45.660 So here we are.

01:18:46.820 And again, it's just a matter of getting

01:18:50.320 his manner of death changed

01:18:52.620 from suicide to something else

01:18:56.640 so that it releases the funds

01:19:00.220 that his family deserves.

01:19:03.240 Have you spoken to any of his teammates,

01:19:05.320 people who served under him?

01:19:06.780 From that deployment, only a couple.

01:19:08.560 Most of them won't talk to me.

01:19:10.800 Luckily, I have all their statements, and they're all scripted.

01:19:15.180 Everybody said basically the same thing in every one of those statements, even words like aloof, that he was aloof.

01:19:23.000 I can count on one finger the number of times that I've used aloof in a sentence, and I certainly don't think Navy SEALs collectively use the word aloof when describing another person who might be forgetful or...

01:19:40.800 whatever that's just the word that doesn't get used yeah so describing a commanding officer's

01:19:46.100 aloof is not evidence that he killed himself no and and you know that i get i have had you know

01:19:52.360 through hateful emails and threats and telling me that you know the man that i thought i knew

01:20:00.500 is not the man that killed himself he was changed he did this and and he was you don't know what it

01:20:06.060 like he was depressed he was withdrawn okay i stipulate to that and the evidence shows he was

01:20:13.660 murdered so anything you tell me about these contextual joe price sadness thing has no bearing

01:20:21.180 because actual evidence shows he was murdered and there is absolutely zero not a single stitch of

01:20:27.100 evidence that job committed suicide not actual evidence well given the context you've laid out

01:20:33.260 I don't think it sounds crazy that he was killed.

01:20:36.300 Well, I appreciate that because I've been called that a lot, unfortunately.

01:20:41.540 John Chapman.

01:20:42.420 Yes.

01:20:42.780 You made reference to his story, his case.

01:20:45.900 What is it?

01:20:46.580 What happened?

01:20:46.940 So early in the war, the first major offensive in Afghanistan was called Operation Anaconda, which...

01:20:55.380 I remember that.

01:20:55.980 Yeah.

01:20:56.280 So this was a piece of the Operation Anaconda.

01:20:59.820 and there's a mountain called Takargar and Tim Szymanski was the operations officer who planned

01:21:08.360 that mission you'll see the connectivity there and he got his team SEAL Team 16 to take this

01:21:19.500 mission where they were going to go and put a basically a recce team a sniper team reconnaissance

01:21:26.460 on this mountain.

01:21:29.140 But they knew Delta Force,

01:21:31.300 Pete Blaber,

01:21:32.060 who has since turned into a complete fraud,

01:21:35.800 but he was the ground force commander

01:21:39.620 of the whole area.

01:21:43.020 He knew there were enemies on that mountain.

01:21:45.780 They'd seen their movement.

01:21:47.320 They'd been keeping an eye on them.

01:21:49.740 They decided to do the mission anyways

01:21:53.380 and land on top of the mountain.

01:21:54.920 And the original plan, they should have landed lower and then made their way up by foot in order to get the element of surprise.

01:22:01.680 They chose not to do that.

01:22:02.740 They decided to land right on top of the mountain due to time constraints, I'm told.

01:22:08.340 And they get hit by an RPG.

01:22:11.320 And one of the SEALs on that team was a six-man team plus John Chapman, who was the Air Force Combat Controller.

01:22:19.040 Neil Roberts, his name was, that fell out the back of the helicopter.

01:22:22.000 and the helicopter was going to crash.

01:22:26.120 So the pilot, Alan Mack, who's been on a lot of podcasts,

01:22:30.000 navigated the helicopter to a safe area and crash landed.

01:22:37.240 They got picked up, went back to base, got another helicopter,

01:22:41.540 and they were supposed to land down lower again.

01:22:44.580 And they decided not to do that and land exactly in the same spot

01:22:47.640 that they just got shut down in.

01:22:49.100 in order to go rescue neil roberts and did they believe he was alive

01:22:57.300 there's always an the assumption you will go with is that he's alive yes um turns out he wasn't um

01:23:06.940 they actually he fought valiantly um i've seen the is the footage of it and they nearly decapitated

01:23:14.180 him um and took all his gear and just savages anyways um they land and um

01:23:27.940 they're under heavy fire multiple angles john was the second one off the helicopter um but

01:23:34.740 lebensky was the team leader was the first one off and fell this kind of because it was thigh deep

01:23:39.780 snow so you know that first step's a doozy if you don't know what's underneath you and uh so he took

01:23:46.020 a header off the back of the helicopter and then john his job as a cct is to establish communications

01:23:53.620 with assets overhead and coordinate whatever it is they need to coordinate so he uh started you know

01:24:02.740 you got to get higher ground to have your radios work effectively so he went up the hill first

01:24:07.860 through the snow towards gunfire and it's called Bunker 1 and Bunker 2 in the Medal of Honor

01:24:18.060 packet. He assaulted Bunker 1 by himself, killed two bad guys, but Slabinski followed him up,

01:24:27.200 entered Bunker 1 with him, killed the donkey apparently that was in there. And then they

01:24:32.420 started addressing bunker two which was um a little bit away from that which had a pkm machine

01:24:38.080 gun which is a heavy duty 7.62 uh machine gun and john gets hit and falls right outside bunker one

01:24:48.300 and so now it's brits lebensky um neil roberts they had actually after they uh captured him

01:24:57.420 the bad guys they brought him up to this rock outcropping right by bunker one and then

01:25:01.520 beheaded him basically um he was laying there and then two other seals that had made their way up

01:25:10.540 were fighting this these multiple positions they determined that it was you know untenable

01:25:16.460 and they slid down the side of the mountain leaving neil and john on the mountain so

01:25:25.780 neil had been killed yes but nobody had been shot yes they they according and again i'm the family

01:25:34.140 me nobody is questioning the decision for self-preservation and come up with a better plan

01:25:40.640 right um the problem was what happened after for the next 24 years not necessarily what happened

01:25:48.380 on the mountain that day fog of war is real things happen um no one's really criticizing

01:25:54.720 britz lebensky or seal team six for the mission execution just for how they handled it afterwards

01:26:04.080 um and we'll really touch on that but so john ended up waking up or coming to

01:26:11.040 and proceeds to fight by himself as the qrf which is army rangers were coming in

01:26:17.360 to rescue everybody and was drawing fire away from the the helicopter that was bringing the rangers

01:26:23.280 and ultimately saved 18 of the 23 with his actions

01:26:27.880 and he was killed.

01:26:31.100 He actually earned two Medal of Honors.

01:26:33.960 In reality, he was only given one

01:26:36.200 because the second half of the part of the story,

01:26:38.880 they ended up classifying the part where he comes to

01:26:41.580 and fights by himself

01:26:42.500 because the Navy didn't want that out there.

01:26:46.240 So immediately afterwards,

01:26:48.220 I mean he's

01:26:51.580 put on SEAL Team 6

01:26:53.260 Wall of Fame

01:26:53.920 which no one's

01:26:54.640 he's the only non-SEAL

01:26:55.520 that's up there

01:26:56.240 he gets put in

01:26:58.000 for an Air Force Cross

01:26:59.320 which is the

01:27:01.020 right below the

01:27:02.320 Medal of Honor

01:27:02.700 it's the highest medal

01:27:03.240 you can get

01:27:03.700 in the Air Force

01:27:05.000 but Slabinski

01:27:07.340 Kyle Soderberg

01:27:09.560 and Randy Lowry

01:27:10.440 who were guys

01:27:11.120 on SEAL Team 6

01:27:11.880 all wrote

01:27:12.440 statements of facts

01:27:13.880 for that medal

01:27:14.980 about what John did

01:27:16.580 up until the point where they left the mountain.

01:27:20.000 The second half part, they didn't witness.

01:27:22.260 That was witnessed overhead by the ISR and the AC-130 feed.

01:27:29.020 So John gets his Air Force cross.

01:27:31.220 And for the first few years, everything is,

01:27:34.260 John's a hero.

01:27:35.280 John's a hero, John's a hero.

01:27:37.220 Until about 2015 when the Air Force,

01:27:41.620 might have been 16,

01:27:42.360 the Air Force decides they want to look at all valorous medals that have been given out

01:27:48.340 because there's very few Air Force Medal of Honors.

01:27:51.320 So the Secretary of the Air Force says,

01:27:53.280 let's take a look and see if anybody qualifies for a Medal of Honor potential.

01:27:58.880 John's name comes up and they review it and definitely deserve the Medal of Honor.

01:28:04.540 So a packet was created and researched tens of thousands of hours of imagery and analysis,

01:28:10.540 This video, pixel tracking, all kinds of stuff that went into this Medal of Honor.

01:28:16.280 It's not some, yay, let's just upgrade it.

01:28:18.760 You have to be able to prove, A, that everything that happened is factual, and B, that it's worthy of the highest medal in our military.

01:28:27.660 So, they went through this process.

01:28:30.100 The Navy decides, SEAL Team 6, decides that they're going to try to block it.

01:28:35.060 because their guy,

01:28:37.800 but Slabinski,

01:28:38.460 they put him in for the Medal of Honor

01:28:39.660 three times and it was denied.

01:28:42.600 So,

01:28:43.480 Johns was getting traction.

01:28:45.900 So,

01:28:46.480 they created this narrative

01:28:47.660 called the Red Beard Theory,

01:28:49.760 which is some Chechen

01:28:51.040 or Uzbeki fighter

01:28:52.980 who was actually

01:28:53.920 on the ISR feed,

01:28:56.340 John doing what he was doing,

01:28:57.620 they're saying is this Red Beard guy

01:28:59.120 that was actually red on red fighting,

01:29:01.100 bad guys fighting bad guys

01:29:02.500 in daylight

01:29:03.420 who live on that mountain together

01:29:05.820 for weeks and months at a time

01:29:07.380 and know where every fighting position is

01:29:09.620 on that ridge line.

01:29:11.520 But that's their theory,

01:29:12.620 is that this John didn't come to.

01:29:15.040 John died in the first three to four minutes

01:29:17.280 after taking Bunker 1.

01:29:19.600 When he fell, he was dead from PKM fires,

01:29:22.980 their version.

01:29:24.100 And what happened afterwards

01:29:25.520 was this bad guy shooting at his other bad guy buddies.

01:29:30.420 That got debunked.

01:29:31.580 the video evidence the they were able to track everybody on the mountain and say who was who

01:29:38.860 and where and where they were um good thing is john didn't leave that area like where he went

01:29:44.300 down he was fighting and basically in a phone booth in that spot and that's where he ultimately

01:29:48.920 died as well a few feet away from where he initially went down um but the navy kept pressing

01:29:56.820 and pressing and pressing to block john's medal of honor until a deal was struck with the air force

01:30:01.180 Secretary and the Navy Secretary that they would attach Britt Slabinski's Medal of Honor

01:30:06.540 to John Chapman's Medal of Honor, and they would both get the Medal of Honor.

01:30:11.480 So, in 2018, they both got their medals, except Britt got his first.

01:30:18.140 So, the dead guy didn't get his first.

01:30:20.520 The alive guy got his first, because that was one of the agreements that the Navy had

01:30:23.820 requested that, because it looks like you're, you know, first place, right?

01:30:27.520 That you're the one getting your medal first means you did the most.

01:30:31.180 And, you know, on a surface level, you think about it and they're probably don't want the narrative of we left a man behind because that's counter to what their narrative is every time.

01:30:40.860 We never leave a man behind.

01:30:44.020 And for a long time, up until the last probably three or four weeks, I just assumed that was the reasoning.

01:30:50.340 Like, why would you go to this length to stop merit being given to somebody who clearly deserved it?

01:30:59.680 Yes.

01:31:00.160 why would you try to you know run his name through the mud all these years later like what's the

01:31:07.200 what's the the motivating factor so um john gets his medal of honor and everything's fine um the

01:31:15.780 families come to terms with the fact that they're never going to get the full um is john's never

01:31:20.740 going to get his full just do but there's enough and as long as nobody's you know rubbing their

01:31:26.380 face in it or trying to besmirch him in any way they were fine and then the national medal of

01:31:32.280 honor museum opened there was a grand opening and leading up to that members of the board had called

01:31:39.220 the chapman family and said they wanted to honor john and have a prominent display in the museum

01:31:43.740 and so for they're getting artifacts together to put in this big display in the museum

01:31:49.920 and shortly a couple months

01:31:53.080 before the grand opening

01:31:54.280 Lori Chapman Longfritz

01:31:56.580 who was John's sister

01:31:57.500 finds out that

01:31:58.960 there was a change

01:32:00.920 and plans nobody notified them

01:32:02.460 that John was not getting

01:32:04.680 a prominent display

01:32:05.620 but Slobinski was

01:32:07.240 so of course

01:32:10.560 that turned into a major

01:32:12.140 event within the Chapman family

01:32:14.500 reopened the wound

01:32:15.400 pissed them off

01:32:16.660 museum just

01:32:19.920 kept pushing them away and deflecting and not really addressing the situation

01:32:24.480 and uh i went with her to the grand opening down in arlington texas in march of 25 and uh

01:32:31.360 i think it was 25 everything blends together but anyways recently and within the last year or so

01:32:36.720 and uh when you walk into the museum it's you know it's very nice museum but john has a plaque

01:32:45.840 black, the size of that screen, hanging on a wall in a timeline of Medal of Honor winners.

01:32:55.460 And Brit Slavinsky has a room half the size of this, an area of all artifacts about how

01:33:02.340 awesome Brit Slavinsky is.

01:33:05.300 The guy who's alive because of the actions of John Chapman is being celebrated as the

01:33:12.360 hero in that story because the dead guy can't talk.

01:33:16.460 So that pissed me off.

01:33:17.800 I pissed the family off.

01:33:19.420 And it put what was the bed and pulled the covers off and exposed everything again.

01:33:27.880 So over the years, I had known that there's this guy named Mitch Hall, who was a SEAL Team Six guy who wants to be famous in Hollywood, that he was tasked by Tim Szymanski to create a documentary based off of the Red Beard Theory on what happened on that mountain.

01:33:43.720 And for years, it was just in the talking about phase. There was no real public movement with the documentary until recently. And for a long time, Mitch has been trying to get Lori, a guy named Rob Harrison, who was the second guy on the AC-130 overhead, eyewitnessed everything that was going on through the television screens they were watching on, and me to come on and be interviewed for this fake documentary.

01:34:12.040 We respectfully decline.

01:34:13.540 He can't handle that.

01:34:15.020 So he has to badger and do all this stuff

01:34:17.780 trying to get us to, you know,

01:34:20.000 under the guise of it,

01:34:21.040 we're just trying to find the truth.

01:34:23.720 And the documentary is called The Ground Truth.

01:34:26.840 We call it The Ground Spoof.

01:34:30.080 But that's the working premise

01:34:31.740 is they're regurgitating the debunked theory

01:34:34.280 that was debunked during the Medal of Honor process

01:34:36.700 eight years ago.

01:34:38.520 They're trying to bring it

01:34:39.520 and turn it into a documentary.

01:34:40.600 So, recently, Mitch and a guy named Brian Bloom, who was a video game voice guy and a bit actor in a soap opera, it's his business partner, and this documentary went on Andy Stump's podcast, Cleared Hot, which is, you know, Andy was a Navy SEAL, SEAL team sex guy.

01:35:03.720 and mitch spent the better part of 10 hours over the course of three different episodes they at

01:35:10.920 least released it as literally when asked by andy uh andy stump whether john chapman deserved the

01:35:17.820 middle of honor he said no and running john's name through the mud running laurie's name through the

01:35:24.380 mud john's family through the mud um and produced no evidence very similar to job's case where

01:35:31.460 There's no evidence to show what they're saying, but they want you to believe that's what happened.

01:35:39.600 And that video of them coming out and what they're going to try to paint is in direct conflict with what the truth was that happened that day.

01:35:50.040 And Laurie and a guy named Dan Schilling, who was an Air Force combat controller, wrote a bestselling book called Alone at Dawn, which is the true accounts of what happened to John Chapman.

01:36:01.460 And she autographed this book for you.

01:36:04.360 Thank you.

01:36:05.080 And then also wrote a memoir about John that she also.

01:36:09.820 Thanks a lot.

01:36:10.800 Wanted to give you.

01:36:13.480 So because they're bullies and because they picked on a dead man and his family, I decided to start digging about three weeks ago.

01:36:25.520 and luckily through through the course of my relationships that I built over the last seven

01:36:32.020 years I was able to obtain all the necessary evidence that I need to review still um all the

01:36:39.000 ISR feed uncut um the AC-130 feeds um everything that the the Air Force used to to prove what John

01:36:48.000 did is what john did um i was looking at the autopsy the other day and you know i i'm pretty

01:36:56.260 well versed and understand what the enemy uses as their primary weapons which is you know ak-47s

01:37:02.820 ak-74s pkm machine guns yep not a lot of uh nine millimeters or 38 specials you know during combat

01:37:12.920 for al-Qaeda just not something that they they're not carrying the 38 no they're not no wheel guns

01:37:19.500 um and i noticed that you know john had nine bullet wounds um the great thing about forensics

01:37:28.340 we talked about job is that it's science it's provable that certain things have to happen for

01:37:34.700 certain things to happen so in order for john to have been dead in the first four minutes

01:37:40.120 the wounds that were fatal would have had to have happened first

01:37:45.480 because that's what the story is that the navy seals are trying to paint

01:37:50.840 the reality is is that he had nine wounds seven of them were non-lethal

01:37:57.120 and forensically show that for at least an hour his body was still pumping blood

01:38:03.020 because the wounds presented in a way that showed that there was blood pressure at the time for

01:38:07.920 extended period of time after the wounds were sustained, which means he wasn't dead. It means

01:38:14.540 he was alive for at least an hour, which then correlates with him getting up and fighting again

01:38:20.100 and then receiving the fatal wounds from the PK machine gun, which blew up his aorta. It was

01:38:26.940 definite lethal wounds. You don't get shot in the aorta four minutes in and then get up and fight

01:38:35.020 again um and then i was looking at the bullets that were recovered from him there's a lot of

01:38:40.420 shrapnel they've dropped bombs all around them the ac-130 did um and two of the bullets that

01:38:47.680 were recovered were completely different in size shape and alloy than the copper

01:38:55.840 based um 7.62 rounds that were recovered from his body and they were small caliber

01:39:04.440 And there's, you know, the only people carrying small calibers on that mountain were the, were the good guys. There's no reference anywhere in any report of any handguns recovered from the bad guys that were killed on that mountain.

01:39:19.780 So, there's a couple bullets that are in John that I have some questions about.

01:39:25.360 How did they get there?

01:39:27.680 How did a small handgun caliber round wind up in John Chapman's body?

01:39:34.000 And they don't have an answer for that, but I will find an answer to that.

01:39:40.000 What's your thought?

01:39:40.620 my thought is

01:39:42.880 I will show grace

01:39:44.900 and say that

01:39:47.060 there was probably a lot of things

01:39:49.220 happening all at once. Yep.

01:39:51.480 And people are moving all over

01:39:53.160 the place. Gunfire's coming. There's no like

01:39:55.100 stationary position anybody was in

01:39:57.200 for any length of time in those first

01:39:59.020 four minutes. Because the

01:40:01.080 SEALs, once they exfilled off the side of the

01:40:03.120 mountain, never went back into the fight.

01:40:05.220 They had guys that were wounded

01:40:06.880 and they were exfilled.

01:40:09.140 they never re-engaged the enemy.

01:40:12.120 So their vantage point is only four minutes,

01:40:15.420 four and a half maybe.

01:40:18.440 But during that four and a half minutes,

01:40:21.120 John was shot by his own eyes,

01:40:23.560 is what I believe.

01:40:25.080 And I'm going to say not intentionally

01:40:26.760 because I don't believe,

01:40:29.900 because of where the wounds were,

01:40:31.220 they were in his legs, the back of his legs,

01:40:35.080 that they have to have been unintentional.

01:40:37.820 Who's firing a handgun in a firefight?

01:40:40.400 Well, they're in a bunker.

01:40:42.420 So I don't know if, you know, and they're in the middle of a 20 inches, 22 inches of snow and, you know, automatic weapons are going to malfunction and maybe add to transition to a sidearm.

01:40:56.860 You know, they carry two two-sixes, SIG two two-sixes, but I have spoken to several people who were involved in the pre-deployment workup where conversations were had between trainers and Britt Slabinski and John Chapman because Britt Slabinski told John Chapman not to carry a handgun because of the weight of the things he was going to have to carry, the radios and all that stuff, and not to carry a handgun.

01:41:23.400 john didn't think that was tactically sound so he went and talked to the trainers and said you know

01:41:29.640 what are your thoughts should i shouldn't i and uh they're like yes you definitely should have

01:41:34.960 you always should have a handgun with you just in case something malfunctions you have another

01:41:39.300 opportunity to to put um lead down range and then slobinski entered the conversation

01:41:46.560 and was arguing as to why handguns aren't needed.

01:41:51.220 And when he was told about the Vietnam-era SEALs

01:41:55.160 carrying wheel guns,

01:41:57.320 back then I think it was the Model 66 Taurus,

01:42:02.500 I think is what they were carrying back then.

01:42:04.000 And .357?

01:42:05.160 And .38, they carried both.

01:42:09.900 He was enamored by that.

01:42:11.660 the idea of doing what the the old school seals did and you know tactically speaking a wheel gun

01:42:19.400 is going to work pretty much in any environment as long as you pull the trigger it's going to go

01:42:24.040 bang if there's a bullet in there and uh so it would make sense that maybe he carried it i don't

01:42:29.200 have any direct knowledge that he did carry uh a 38 or 357 but i i do know that he was carrying it

01:42:37.640 a SIG 226 at least

01:42:38.960 because that's what

01:42:40.660 they were issued

01:42:41.120 and John was carrying

01:42:42.460 a SIG 226.

01:42:47.560 John Chapman

01:42:48.560 is an American hero.

01:42:51.500 Ron Howard is putting out

01:42:52.720 a movie in December of 27

01:42:54.180 called Alone at Dawn

01:42:55.100 featuring Adam Driver

01:42:57.220 as John Chapman

01:42:57.980 and Hathaway is playing

01:42:59.880 some amalgamation of

01:43:01.200 multiple people

01:43:03.040 that were part of the

01:43:03.640 Medal of Honor review process

01:43:04.940 for the Air Force.

01:43:07.640 And then you have to ask yourself, why would a group of people be so hellbent 24 years later to destroy the Chapman family and the legacy of John Chapman?

01:43:20.960 What could have happened so egregious that would cause that much ire and anger for someone to want to do that again over and over?

01:43:30.860 I mean, this is over the course of 24 years, five, six times that this wound's been reopened.

01:43:35.060 and initially i thought it's because they left a man behind and they're just too egotistical

01:43:40.440 narcissistic and they they can't allow for that to be their their identifying action from that

01:43:47.000 mission but now that i found these bullets and john chapman maybe i think that's what they're

01:43:53.940 covering up i don't know i'm gonna find out though why would they shoot him i don't think

01:44:00.500 was intentional i just think it happened and i think the fact that someone because i don't as

01:44:06.440 far as i know based on everybody i've talked to nobody's looked at his autopsy with any like

01:44:12.360 trying to figure anything out but it's very clear to me that something doesn't fit and yeah that's

01:44:20.240 how i started with jove something didn't look right something didn't feel right my gut says this

01:44:23.680 something doesn't look right without autopsy there's no there's no justification as to how

01:44:30.160 those handgun rounds ended up in john's body because he was being shot at by a 7.62 machine

01:44:36.400 gun and the guys that were in the bunker had ak-47s so where did these these rounds come from

01:44:44.860 so that's the thing i think they're they're scared about and that's why it's worth it for them to

01:44:51.540 ruin their own reputation in order to protect that information from coming out that's what it

01:44:57.580 seems like to me how long are you going to continue on the trail of corruption in elite

01:45:05.400 military units no i don't want to do it at all um you know i'm going to see job's case through

01:45:11.900 um and now that i'm i'm directly involved in in the chapman case i'm going to see that one through

01:45:20.920 But there is zero interest for me, sorry about that, interest for me to go after anyone else.

01:45:28.000 Like I'm not investigating anybody else, never did.

01:45:30.500 I didn't investigate Rob O'Neill or any of the other famous SEALs or any other SEAL for that matter that was involved in any potential crime or cover-up.

01:45:38.840 And I don't want to.

01:45:43.280 But I don't like bullies.

01:45:45.160 I don't like liars.

01:45:46.380 I don't like people who hurt other people intentionally.

01:45:50.920 in order to serve their own best interests.

01:45:54.700 And as long as Brits Lubinsky,

01:45:56.980 oh, I didn't even mention this.

01:45:58.180 Brits Lubinsky is on the board

01:45:59.300 of the National Medal of Honor Museum

01:46:00.700 and he's the president of the National,

01:46:03.760 of the Congressional Medal of Honor Society.

01:46:07.260 So a Medal of Honor recipient

01:46:08.920 who is at the top of the food chain of an organization

01:46:12.340 meant to protect the integrity

01:46:14.640 of the Medal of Honor recipients

01:46:16.060 and the Medal of Honor itself

01:46:17.440 is publicly saying

01:46:19.120 that the guy that saved his life

01:46:21.880 on that mountain that day

01:46:23.560 who also received the Medal of Honor

01:46:25.060 did not earn it publicly?

01:46:29.040 How does somebody remain on the board?

01:46:31.300 Charlotte Jones,

01:46:32.440 Jerry Jones's daughter

01:46:33.280 is the president or CEO

01:46:35.060 of the museum down in Arlington.

01:46:38.660 She should demand

01:46:40.860 that Prince Levinsky step down

01:46:42.040 from any role within that organization.

01:46:45.260 The Medal of Honor Society

01:46:46.520 should have him step down

01:46:48.160 of stripped of his title of president of that society he's a president of a company of a

01:46:53.600 non-profit called turbo vets there was a recent incident between him and a guy named eric deming

01:46:59.200 who was a seal great guy we've become very good friends it was a vet influencer type conference

01:47:06.400 and brit was speaking about how do we honor our dead was the topic of his talk eric went

01:47:12.800 recorded uh an exchange with brit where he stood up introduced himself introduced him actually

01:47:20.480 before the event he introduced himself to brit and said hey you know while we're on the topic of

01:47:25.720 honoring our dead can you name off the seven guys that died that day on the mountain

01:47:29.360 rangers and john chapman and neil har and neil roberts and he couldn't and then he lost his

01:47:38.640 mind screaming fuck you got in eric's face it's all in video um and then jason redmond who was

01:47:46.640 another navy seal who was injured in an op um i don't want to say assaulted but eric's wife

01:47:55.500 was wearing one of those badge lanyard badges for as an attendee and he her name was facing

01:48:02.920 inward. So no, he couldn't see who she was. So he grabbed her chest and the lanyard badge and

01:48:10.580 flipped it around and said, now I know who you are. This is another seal who was there with

01:48:17.440 Brett Slabinski. So Brett Slabinski is unstable. I think he has a lot of guilt and I think he's

01:48:26.940 Um, unraveling and if I were his handler, I would make sure he goes into treatment and

01:48:37.220 gets the help that he needs.

01:48:39.400 And I would certainly have no affiliation with anything to do with the Medal of Honor.

01:48:44.980 And the fact that, you know, no one is calling for that yet.

01:48:50.500 And there's, there's a lot of people, Congress, there's a lot of people involved that are

01:48:55.020 unhappy with what's happened in the last three weeks with this documentary, uh, with Mitch Hall

01:49:00.580 and Bruce Lebinski's losing his crap with Eric Deming. They're very unhappy because it's bringing

01:49:05.800 a negative light to the medal of honor itself. Just think about it. Every medal of honor from

01:49:10.240 here on out, now that this is a big public thing is going to be, it's like Barry Bonds with steroids.

01:49:17.040 Like there's just going to be an asterisk and that's unfortunate. And it was avoidable.

01:49:22.100 You know, had they just,

01:49:23.180 and I hate to take it back to the museum display,

01:49:25.680 but had they just did the right thing.

01:49:29.140 Museums are meant for the people

01:49:30.380 who can't talk anymore.

01:49:31.800 They're meant to remember those

01:49:33.140 who are no longer here.

01:49:35.860 If they would have just given John his display

01:49:38.080 as promised,

01:49:40.760 I would guarantee we wouldn't be sitting here.

01:49:44.160 Well, when everything becomes corrupt,

01:49:46.360 everything becomes corrupt.

01:49:47.640 That's a fact.

01:49:48.140 Matt, thank you for that

01:49:51.180 You're welcome

01:49:51.960 Painful topic, I think you handled it responsibly

01:49:54.940 and I'm grateful that you did

The Tucker Carlson Show - October 26, 2026

Murder, Drugs and Cover-Ups： Military Insider Exposes the Criminal Cartel Within the US Navy SEALs

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