The Tucker Carlson Show - USS Liberty Survivor Reveals What Really Happened the Day Israel Attacked & the Lies Covering It Up

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00:00:19.300 Mr. Lockwood, thank you very much for joining us.

00:00:22.060 My pleasure.

00:00:22.880 Tell us, the USS Liberty, many people have heard the name.

00:00:26.680 They're aware there's a controversy about what happened to the ship in 1967.

00:00:32.060 If you wouldn't mind starting at the beginning and telling us the story of the USS Liberty.

00:00:37.040 USS Liberty was a spy ship back in the 1960s.

00:00:43.260 Several of the Sub-Saharan African countries had just won their independence from Great Britain, Germany, Belgium, France.

00:00:51.020 There was a heavy influence both from the Soviet Union and from Cuba.

00:00:57.340 Cubans had a lot of troops around the area.

00:01:01.540 That entire area is very wealthy in natural resources, precious metals.

00:01:07.480 And the United States wanted to keep track of what was going on over there.

00:01:14.580 Mind you, this is when satellites were pretty rudimentary.

00:01:19.260 So the best way to gather that information is to get close. 0.60

00:01:24.120 The USS Liberty was a World War II victory class freighter.

00:01:30.140 She was originally commissioned as the SS Simmons Victory. 0.99

00:01:34.240 She saw service as a cargo carrier during the Second World War.

00:01:38.760 Mothballed, brought back out of mothballs for the Korean War.

00:01:42.300 Ammunition carrier for the Korean War, back into mothballs.

00:01:46.160 And in 1965, when the National Security Agency decided they needed vessels of that type,

00:01:53.120 Her hull was probably in the best condition of almost any of them

00:01:57.640 that were in the ghost fleet or the mothball fleet.

00:02:02.760 She was brought out of commission.

00:02:04.280 The U.S. government spent $26 million in 1965 money.

00:02:11.880 Outquipping her with the latest in intelligence collection,

00:02:18.200 We could suck up literally every frequency that was being used.

00:02:24.220 We had aboard her the world's largest mobile computer, the Univac 500.

00:02:30.680 At that time, the world's largest.

00:02:33.500 You could likely do about as much with their cell phone now.

00:02:37.860 But technology has come a long ways in the last 60 years.

00:02:41.060 she was equipped with linguists

00:02:45.180 cruised up and down the west coast of Africa

00:02:47.860 listening in onto whatever was going on

00:02:50.520 as war appeared to be imminent

00:02:54.780 between Israel and her neighbors in 1967

00:02:57.980 the neighbors included what was then called

00:03:02.100 the United Arab Republic

00:03:03.560 primarily Egypt

00:03:05.520 Syria to a lesser extent

00:03:08.300 some influence from Jordan and Libya

00:03:10.620 And the administration set some F-4 photograph planes, high-performance photo-intelligence planes, to a Tyrone Air Base in Spain.

00:03:33.480 Those markings were obliterated.

00:03:36.160 The pilots were given neutral uniforms and neutral identification and set to overfly Israel's neighbors.

00:03:44.900 When hostilities broke out, June of 1967, the Israelis had intelligence courtesy of the U.S. administration,

00:03:54.640 locating every aircraft, revetment, every tank, location of personnel

00:04:02.360 where they were based and so forth.

00:04:09.180 Hostilities broke out on the 5th of June, 1967.

00:04:13.720 The National Security Agency had ordered the USS Liberty to proceed

00:04:17.600 from her cruise up and down the west coast of Africa

00:04:20.440 with all due speed to row to Spain, take on stores, refuel, pick up six additional linguists,

00:04:29.740 and proceed with haste to the eastern Mediterranean where they could monitor what was going on.

00:04:35.740 She was stacked with linguists out of a crew of 294 aboard the ship.

00:04:41.960 Roughly 190 were intelligence personnel.

00:04:44.380 Now, linguists, code breakers, manual morse operators, voice intercept operators, and so forth.

00:04:52.160 The Soviets had a group of Tu-95 long-range bombers equipped for intelligence collection.

00:05:00.820 That's Alexandria, Egypt.

00:05:02.540 They told the world that they'd given those planes to Egypt and that they were manned by Egyptian troops.

00:05:10.880 Such was not the case.

00:05:12.620 They were Soviet troops wearing Egyptian uniforms.

00:05:17.260 The task that we were given as linguists, there were three of us Russian linguists aboard her.

00:05:25.840 We had three watch sections rotating eight hours each.

00:05:30.340 The three of us Russian linguists that were assigned as voice intercept section supervisors,

00:05:34.540 our primary task was catching those Soviet Tu-95 and Chell's aircraft at Alexandria.

00:05:42.620 the uh aircraft would communicate in plain language egyptian until they were airborne and

00:05:51.500 over the uh mediterranean sea change frequencies and go to plain language russian it was ironic

00:05:59.820 that uh while we were under attack my relief came into the processing reporting room where i was

00:06:06.020 and said hey sarge i got him i got him so you got who jim the roost piece really said yeah plain

00:06:11.760 night was russian he went back into the room where he was copying the intercept and torpedo

00:06:18.460 killed him um hostilities broke out on the 5th of june 1967 we arrived on station on the 7th of june

00:06:30.840 um throughout the day of the 7th and in the early morning hours of the 8th of june we were overflown

00:06:39.060 by several different Israeli aircraft. They flew very close to us. We could plainly see

00:06:45.880 the pilots. The fellows that were off-duty and signing themselves on the decks would wave

00:06:51.100 to the pilots, the pilots way back. We had a drill general quarters at noon on the morning

00:06:57.860 of the 8th. The captain came on the address system aboard the ship, the 1MC, and told

00:07:08.300 us that there were a few things he wanted us to improve get to our general quarter stations a

00:07:13.620 little more rapidly get the watertight doors closed a little more rapidly secured from the

00:07:20.660 general quarters i was at my birthing spaces in the after part of the ship um i heard a tremendous

00:07:29.380 this noise, roughly two o'clock local time.

00:07:34.720 I had never been under hostile fire before,

00:07:38.360 but I knew that we were in trouble,

00:07:40.000 immediately dropped where I was doing,

00:07:41.420 headed for my general corps station,

00:07:43.960 which is below decks.

00:07:46.420 Mind you, the cargo spaces in the forward part of the ship

00:07:50.320 was where all of our intelligence people were,

00:07:53.340 roughly 190 men.

00:07:55.600 The only way out was a narrow, steep ladderway about two feet wide with a railing.

00:08:05.480 The ship would ring whenever a projectile struck it.

00:08:12.860 There were 826 large caliber strikes from aircraft aboard her.

00:08:18.020 40 millimeter cannon fire

00:08:22.420 30 millimeter cannon fire

00:08:26.100 heat seeking rockets napalm

00:08:30.200 on either side of the ship

00:08:33.800 or starboard there were racks that contained

00:08:36.280 life rafts with a charge

00:08:41.820 you jerk on a cord and charge it go off and

00:08:45.240 fire these life rafts

00:08:47.480 into the sea

00:08:48.100 both of those were napalm

00:08:51.440 the captain's gig was

00:08:53.540 riddled with rocket fire

00:08:55.400 the liberty launch

00:08:57.460 was riddled with rocket fire

00:08:59.200 basically

00:09:00.960 no means of getting any survivors

00:09:03.560 off 1.00

00:09:04.080 the Israelis were jamming our distress 0.90

00:09:09.480 frequencies which was a violation

00:09:11.460 of international law

00:09:13.480 They were using unmatched aircraft, which is a violation of international law.

00:09:20.980 During the Court of Inquiry, which was conducted after the attack was over with,

00:09:27.340 ordered by the JOS administration, conducted by three-star Admiral Isaac Kidd,

00:09:35.100 the Israelis said that they had mistaken us for an Egyptian ship.

00:09:39.220 um the el casir the el casir was a world war one horse transport her only armament was a four inch

00:09:52.760 muzzle loading cannon israelis claimed that they were being shelled from the sea we were the only

00:09:59.720 ship in the vicinity we had no capacity of shelling anything the bottom line was he israelis

00:10:08.180 had captured an entire Egyptian brigade.

00:10:11.420 They were blowing up the captured ammunition,

00:10:13.720 and that's what the explosions were

00:10:15.000 that they claimed was fire from the sea.

00:10:20.000 Quite obviously, that was not possible

00:10:21.940 from the El Kassir or from us.

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00:12:27.940 let me let me let me ask you let me ask you when you you come you come under fire around two o'clock

00:12:36.540 how long does it last um there are various um testimonies about that the claimed air

00:12:45.280 attack lasted about 25 minutes but of course when you're under fire and try to survive it seems a

00:12:52.520 lot longer and as i mentioned earlier the entire ship would ring with each shell of truckers

00:12:57.940 um the captain came on the one emcee and said uh brace yourselves torpedo attack starboard side

00:13:06.140 well that's where i was located um my friend ronnie campbell was sitting there at a desk and

00:13:13.760 he said well they hit us with everything else what else can they hit us with the uh division

00:13:19.140 officer lieutenant benton stuck his head in a hatchway and he said sergeant lock would you

00:13:22.700 come here a minute please i stepped out into the passageway i ran down the center of the ship and

00:13:27.980 he got me in a conversation with lieutenant commander david lewis who was a senior research

00:13:33.680 officer board of the ship about getting these ditching bags topside pitched over in the sea

00:13:39.640 we had large canvas bags brass furrows in the sides lead weight in the bottom

00:13:45.800 the idea was all the classified information we had get them into these ditching bags

00:13:51.380 the top side pitch into the sea

00:13:53.500 should they be

00:13:55.600 recovered by the time they could be

00:13:57.500 any information in them would be useless

00:13:59.460 when there

00:14:01.760 was a sudden blinding

00:14:03.760 flash of flame

00:14:04.940 tremendous loud

00:14:07.540 noise

00:14:08.100 knocked me to the deck

00:14:10.660 I was kind of semi-conscious

00:14:13.100 I'm thinking to myself

00:14:14.300 well Lord I guess this is it I guess I'm coming home

00:14:17.400 at least the lowest my kids are taking care of

00:14:19.280 the lowest my life

00:14:21.380 I felt something cold. I looked down and the water was gushing in. I didn't find out what had actually taken place so many years later. Some of the sailors told me that when the torpedo struck, it literally lifted the ship out of the water and set her back down.

00:14:41.600 When she came down and rolled towards the starboard side, there was a roughly 40-foot hole on the side that water was gushing in.

00:14:53.760 I heard a moan behind me, a struggle at my feet.

00:14:58.400 There was a sailor trapped there in the wreckage.

00:15:02.320 His name was Joe Lantini.

00:15:03.860 I didn't know who that was until 25 years later.

00:15:06.200 joe was one of the communicators that worked with the teletype equipment we weren't getting

00:15:13.020 anything out couldn't understand why we weren't getting mayday out and uh weren't getting any aid

00:15:19.880 and uh he's a shrapnel from a rocket had penetrated the ship and struck him in a left thigh

00:15:26.240 joe was bleeding profusely sat there on the deck and leaned up against the lighter way the only

00:15:31.680 the way out. I was putting a tourniquet on that wound when the torpedo struck. Our office spaces

00:15:38.520 were separated by sheet steel bulkheads. That bulkhead just mushroomed out, caught him in his

00:15:47.160 left knee upturned, and literally made toothpicks out of his femur bone. And I'm trying to pull

00:15:55.640 him loose. The water was coming up pretty rapidly. And I said, come on, you got to help me. I can't

00:16:01.480 do it by myself. Come on, get your legs on you and push. Well, I didn't realize his left leg was 0.93

00:16:07.160 smashed. But I felt him get his right leg on him. He pushed just enough where I could free him,

00:16:13.280 though he was still partially angled up in that wreckage.

00:16:17.920 By that time, the water was within a foot and a half of the overhead. There were some pipes that

00:16:24.700 carried cabling and power and so forth that was hanging from the overhead. I said, here,

00:16:29.740 get a hold of these pipes about that time i saw a body floating out towards a hole i reached down

00:16:36.580 with my right arm and got an arm around him trying to hold his head above water

00:16:41.280 i heard uh the division officer lieutenant bennett at the top of the ladderway say this

00:16:47.600 mr bennett opened this hatch there was a lot of confusion you can imagine roughly 190 people

00:16:53.880 crammed into that space

00:16:55.240 in fear of their lives

00:16:57.880 a lot of shouting

00:17:00.760 I holler as loudly as I could

00:17:02.900 knock it off if y'all don't settle down

00:17:04.800 none of us will get out of here alive

00:17:06.220 that was the last thing I remember

00:17:10.320 I apparently passed out

00:17:12.480 the next thing I recall was

00:17:14.440 being alone with the unconscious sailor

00:17:17.340 and nobody there but

00:17:19.300 me and the sea and him

00:17:21.100 the ship was rolling

00:17:25.260 the torpedo had ruptured

00:17:29.500 one of the fuel tanks

00:17:31.220 which is there on the starboard side

00:17:33.340 that was the

00:17:35.420 heavy oil that 0.77

00:17:37.460 powered the ship 0.75

00:17:38.620 it's a stinking 0.52

00:17:40.020 oil 0.93

00:17:41.720 that oil was everywhere

00:17:44.080 and oil watered out mix

00:17:47.080 of course you can imagine

00:17:48.100 just about everything was coated with it

00:17:51.100 And I tried to start up the ladder way with this unconscious sailor, slipped, dropped him.

00:17:57.520 He's going back out the hole, weight got him, got back, started back up the ladder way.

00:18:02.460 About half or two-thirds of the way up the ladder way, a piece of shrapnel from the torpedo had bent in the railing,

00:18:08.080 so there's only a space, oh, roughly a foot wide.

00:18:13.000 Got to that point, slipped, dropped him again, going back out the hole, weight got him.

00:18:17.320 back up the right of way again, got up to the top, and the hatch was sealed shut.

00:18:24.160 Trying to hold his head above water, pound on the hatch, and

00:18:27.260 filling in Bobby Schnell, there were

00:18:31.680 dogs that held the hatch seal shut around a rubber gasket and about

00:18:37.780 an 8-inch high metal seal.

00:18:42.420 I'm guessing probably a dozen large bolts that

00:18:45.980 bolted it down. He got a wrench, knocked those

00:18:49.620 nuts loose and opened the hatch, let me out. 0.99

00:18:54.300 I tried to drag his sailor out, dropped him, tried to drag him again, 0.95

00:18:58.180 can't quite get him out, tried to turn him over.

00:19:01.700 His foot caught in the chain that was holding the

00:19:05.380 prop or the hatch open

00:19:09.380 and literally I was trying to drag his leg off.

00:19:13.140 Phil Turney was one of the damage control

00:19:16.420 people who was standing here. He said, wait a minute, he got his foot

00:19:18.520 caught. He freed his foot.

00:19:21.960 He said

00:19:22.560 the captain is

00:19:23.340 ordered to prepare to abandon ship.

00:19:26.520 He said, you need to get a life vest on.

00:19:28.380 There's been there to have a

00:19:30.360 life vest on. He said, get a life vest on.

00:19:32.260 Put one on him.

00:19:34.380 They're doing triage at the

00:19:35.980 Mestex after part of the ship.

00:19:38.280 He said, you need to get him back there to triage on.

00:19:41.300 I tried to pick him

00:19:42.360 up pretty weak dropped him tried to pick him up again dropped him again um years later when i

00:19:51.340 found out who he was it was some 30 years before he even found out who he was we were sitting in

00:19:57.400 his kitchen sunday morning in chicago and his family is gathered around i don't want to know

00:20:02.040 what had happened to dad i'm trying to tell him and uh his name was jay mcfagan and he kind of

00:20:08.720 blurted out, said, I wouldn't be hurt nearly as bad.

00:20:10.600 You wouldn't have dropped me so many times.

00:20:13.860 He had been topside in the rocket from one of the air attacks

00:20:18.500 that exploded very close to him and flying you back into the bulkhead.

00:20:23.800 He's wounded from that.

00:20:26.420 He's in a lot of pain.

00:20:28.200 He's thinking, I've got to get to my GQ station.

00:20:30.420 His GQ station was down below decks.

00:20:33.400 He gets down there just as they slam the hat shut and bolt it down.

00:20:36.880 He's sitting on the ladder way.

00:20:38.720 And with his head in his hands, hurting badly when the torpedo struck, slammed him back into the ladderway and made a mess out of his spine.

00:20:51.280 He's still alive, but barely and confined to a wheelchair now.

00:20:57.320 Joel Antini passed away from a heart attack some three years ago.

00:21:02.160 the book Assault on the Liberty

00:21:07.300 credits me with diving underwater

00:21:09.240 and freeing Joe Antini's leg

00:21:10.740 that was actually a sailor named Bobby Snell

00:21:12.960 that did that

00:21:13.820 freed his leg, carried him topside

00:21:16.740 there was

00:21:18.960 some conversation

00:21:21.240 that I carried a man out

00:21:23.260 went back down

00:21:24.940 senior listed man

00:21:26.900 Dan White

00:21:28.400 that's hard, you can't go back down there

00:21:30.620 um stan has since passed away too but uh he told me he said you gave me a kind of a blank stare

00:21:39.020 and went back down i don't recall any of that i think there's a good possibility i was confused

00:21:45.400 with someone else but the navy marine corps uniform is a different color um we were told

00:21:53.080 to go to the radio room on the port side of the ship. I was lying on the deck in a radio

00:22:00.360 room, and I couldn't understand why we weren't getting any hay. There was machine gunning

00:22:06.600 going on. The motor torpedo boats were circling the ship, riddling us with heavy machine gun

00:22:17.300 far. There were 3,100

00:22:20.100 heavy-to-calibered machinemen strikes on the ship.

00:22:29.620 One of the radio men

00:22:31.100 figured out that when they were shooting rockets at us, they couldn't

00:22:37.340 jam our distress frequencies because the family would have screwed up the flight of the rockets.

00:22:43.420 In a brief period when those rockets were being fired, this mayday went out.

00:22:50.100 Firefox, Firefox, this is Rockstar, Rockstar, under attack by unidentified surface and air units require immediate assistance.

00:22:59.660 As soon as that mayday was acknowledged, the shooting stopped.

00:23:03.900 I saw some sailors carry three inflatable life rats through the radio room.

00:23:09.960 heard them fall into the sea

00:23:12.580 there were lines

00:23:14.440 attached

00:23:15.260 to keep them from floating away

00:23:18.040 I heard a revving of engines

00:23:20.900 more machine gun fire

00:23:22.220 one of those sailors came back

00:23:25.020 through the radio room and he said

00:23:26.500 I don't know what we're going to do now

00:23:27.960 they've riddled what we had left

00:23:30.860 it is my understanding

00:23:34.020 that machine gun fire severed the line

00:23:36.340 it was holding one of those life rafts

00:23:38.900 The torpedo boat came in, picked it up, plainly labeled U.S. Navy, can't be proven, I have no idea, but I heard a rumor that that life raft and the ship's wheel from the torpedo boat that fired the fatal torpedo are in the Israeli Naval War Museum at Haifa as trophies of war.

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00:26:06.180 tax deductible so did at any at any point did the torpedo boats come to the aid of survivors

00:26:14.840 what what did when the israelis stopped firing on the liberty after your mayday call was received

00:26:22.160 did they help in any way the survivors um actually we heard some helicopters

00:26:28.800 overhead i did not see them myself but the deck crew told me that two large

00:26:36.180 Armored helicopters came over fully loaded with armed troops, automatic weapons, hand grenades.

00:26:43.580 It seems fairly obvious. 0.87

00:26:45.500 The idea was, take the ship, kill everyone aboard it, no survivors. 0.97

00:26:54.640 We think there's a very good possibility that we were set up by our own government. 0.96

00:26:59.580 The president, Lyndon Bates Johnson, was very friendly towards Israel.

00:27:06.180 His predecessor, John F. Kennedy, had actually given a speech about the necessity for discourse between the Palestinians and Israelis about getting some 700,000 refugees from the so-called War of Independence of Israel in 1947-48.

00:27:32.400 They were driven from their homes.

00:27:35.300 The Israelis said they were voluntarily left.

00:27:40.260 My personal opinion is there was nothing voluntary about it.

00:27:43.420 They were told to leave or be destroyed.

00:27:49.340 The Kennedy conversation was to have at least a portion of those refugees be allowed to return to their ancestral homes.

00:27:59.360 as a result of

00:28:04.300 our Congress and our President

00:28:06.280 doing nothing about the attack 0.68

00:28:08.320 on the OSS liberty.

00:28:10.600 The Court of Inquiry 0.99

00:28:11.940 accepted the Israelis' excuse

00:28:13.920 that it was a case of mistaken identity.

00:28:16.060 The case was closed.

00:28:19.140 As a result of 0.65

00:28:20.320 our doing nothing, Israel realized 0.97

00:28:22.040 they could do

00:28:24.060 whatever they wanted. The United States Congress,

00:28:26.480 the United States Administration

00:28:27.740 would say nothing

00:28:28.780 do nothing i i'm sorry to interrupt what why i just want to go back to what you said about your

00:28:35.080 belief that the johnson administration knew that this attack was coming on the liberty why do you

00:28:41.240 think they would have allowed that um commander lewis who was a senior intelligence officer board

00:28:49.700 a ship and i both had pretty much the same wounds my glasses protected my face from debris his eyes

00:28:57.680 were sealed shut. We were both medevaced off to the Carrier America. Admiral Lawrence Larry

00:29:04.200 Geis, who was the task force 6th commanding officer, included the carriers USS Saratoga,

00:29:10.920 USS America, and the guided missile cruiser, the USS Little Rock, asked for Commander

00:29:20.240 Lewis to come to his stateroom. This was several days after the attack had taken place.

00:29:25.500 he swore Mr. Lewis to secrecy until after his death

00:29:30.700 told him that he had ordered aircraft

00:29:34.740 to come to our aid

00:29:36.060 planes were launched from the USS Saratoga

00:29:39.580 they had nuclear weapons aboard them

00:29:43.420 Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered them returned

00:29:47.620 both Admiral Geis and skipper of the Saratoga

00:29:51.740 Captain Joseph Tully

00:29:53.240 figured out that that was probably because there were nuclear weapons

00:29:57.540 aboard them. They were recovered. Conventional

00:30:01.460 aircraft with conventional weapons were relaunched to come to our aid. Captain

00:30:05.180 Tully re-notified Washington. Secretary of Defense

00:30:09.340 McNamara came on the circuit again and ordered those aircraft returned.

00:30:15.140 Admiral Guise said, I don't want to exercise my

00:30:17.400 authority and hear that from higher authority. Well, the only higher authority was the President.

00:30:23.240 This is the conversation that was related to David Lewis from Admiral Geis.

00:30:33.180 The president said, get those aircraft back.

00:30:36.060 I will not have my allies embarrassed.

00:30:40.600 They were using unmarked aircraft, and we did not know who was attacking us.

00:30:44.300 How did the president know?

00:30:45.440 the number two man

00:30:49.580 in the U.S. CIA at the time

00:30:51.640 was a gentleman named James

00:30:53.380 Angleton

00:30:54.060 James Angleton was not only the number

00:30:57.600 two man in U.S. Central Intelligence

00:30:59.320 Agency, U.S. AA

00:31:00.940 Israeli Mossad

00:31:03.680 many of us survivors

00:31:07.800 believed that we were

00:31:09.680 set up by our own government

00:31:11.040 false flag operation

00:31:15.200 sink the ship no survivors blame it on egypt get the united states involved on the side of israel

00:31:23.040 against her neighbors and excuse me tucker what's happening now

00:31:30.160 the the head of counterintelligence that you you mentioned james jesus angleton uh was also

00:31:38.460 clearly involved in the kennedy assassination um the beneficiary of which was of course lyndon

00:31:44.580 johnson and israel uh i best find my comprehension tucker yeah i i don't doubt that yeah well it's

00:31:54.600 pretty it's pretty clear i think from documents that have subsequently been uh released um

00:32:00.000 so how many just to to end the to wrap up the story of what actually happened that day how

00:32:08.140 many americans were killed in the attack there were 34 americans killed uh one civilian alan

00:32:14.480 blue he was a arabic linguist from national security agency other two marines were both

00:32:20.740 killed sergeant jack raper corporal ed raymeyer they were both arabic linguists and um the bounce

00:32:27.480 of the uh 31 were all sailors they were all linguists manny morris intercept operators

00:32:37.000 34 killed

00:32:41.080 there were 208 Purple Hearts

00:32:43.300 awarded 174 wounded

00:32:45.280 several of the

00:32:47.060 crewmen that were wounded

00:32:49.020 were never awarded Purple Hearts

00:32:50.700 Jack Beattie

00:32:58.760 he was a machinist

00:33:02.520 he was working on the

00:33:03.860 he was changing oil on the Liberty Lodge

00:33:06.480 the enlisted watch

00:33:08.200 when the air attack took place

00:33:11.060 he had a shrapnel on the back of his head

00:33:12.820 he didn't find out about until many years later

00:33:14.480 when Benner's administration

00:33:16.480 performed the x-ray on a skull

00:33:18.860 there was another

00:33:23.820 Navy chief

00:33:25.420 Joe

00:33:26.860 last name's such a mind right now

00:33:29.560 he had one of those heavy caliber

00:33:31.840 strikes in his left calf

00:33:34.420 and

00:33:36.480 He was a Boy Scout instructor, new first aid,

00:33:41.260 took that projectile out of his leg himself,

00:33:45.300 wrapped himself up.

00:33:46.160 He was never awarded a purple heart.

00:33:48.780 There were others.

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00:36:06.420 When did you find out it was the Israelis who'd attacked the ship?

00:36:11.440 Not until the next morning in my own recollection.

00:36:17.960 The aircraft were all unmarked.

00:36:20.680 The torpedo boats were flying the Star of David.

00:36:24.360 One of the officers that was on the deck happened to be Jewish.

00:36:28.040 when he saw the star-beaving flag.

00:36:30.680 I understand he broke out in tears.

00:36:33.760 The torpedo boats that fired machine guns at the Liberty,

00:36:38.460 I mean, they must have been close enough

00:36:39.880 to see the American flag flying over the ship.

00:36:42.840 Yes.

00:36:45.640 Our initial flight was flying from Flagstaff

00:36:48.860 at the back of the main mast.

00:36:51.380 that was knocked down

00:36:53.420 in one of the first

00:36:55.680 air attacks

00:36:58.160 our signalman

00:37:05.320 ran that back up again

00:37:07.960 it was knocked down again

00:37:09.680 and then he ran up

00:37:11.800 the holiday flag which is

00:37:13.660 5 feet by 8 feet

00:37:14.560 largest flag we had aboard ship

00:37:17.060 that flag

00:37:19.660 was literally riddled with

00:37:21.080 shrapnel he ran that up on the uh one of the port signal arms which is on a port side

00:37:27.300 but we had a good breeze blowing that day the flag was out there pretty obvious

00:37:34.560 uh egyptian ships are painted black with hall markings in arabic script

00:37:41.420 um every highway sign in israel is in hebrew arabic script and english lettering

00:37:49.220 so that excuse falls away.

00:37:54.200 U.S. ships are painted gray with hallmarkings and English lettering.

00:37:59.900 Our hallmarking was GTR-5, which stands for General Technical Research,

00:38:05.120 the fifth, the newest of her class.

00:38:08.360 Technical Research means that she's a noncombatant 1.00

00:38:11.400 to violation of international law to fire on noncombatants.

00:38:14.700 the israelis were wriggling our life rafts with machine gun fire that's a violation of international

00:38:21.240 law the irony of that is that came about as a result of refugee ships being machine gunned by

00:38:31.240 nazi wolf packs during world war ii what did your commanding officers tell you

00:38:38.980 about the motive for this attack so you're you're lying recovering you've got wounds to your face

00:38:46.200 and your hands and someone at some point tell explains to you why this happened what did that

00:38:52.040 person say um honestly i didn't hear anything um years later when i reconnected with some of the

00:39:03.320 crew, and it was well over 20 years

00:39:05.400 later before I reconnected with any of the

00:39:07.380 crew.

00:39:09.200 I say it was

00:39:10.120 1982 before I reconnected

00:39:13.560 with any of the crew, so this is

00:39:15.180 15 years afterwards.

00:39:20.180 I honestly didn't know.

00:39:24.320 Most of us were

00:39:25.260 pro-Israel that were aboard the ship.

00:39:28.460 It's kind of ironic

00:39:29.560 that one of our

00:39:31.540 analysts

00:39:32.020 he was processing

00:39:37.460 the United Arab Republic traffic that we were getting

00:39:41.260 he made a small UAR flag and had that stuck in his

00:39:44.620 outbasket most of the crew were smoking back then

00:39:49.000 they'd walk by and say hey Rich your herbs aren't doing so well

00:39:52.520 and they set fire to his flag and he'd say no cut that out

00:39:56.680 put it out one of the sailors had made a huge

00:40:00.020 Star David out of feltite paper

00:40:01.980 that was pasted up on

00:40:05.940 the starboard bulkhead

00:40:07.160 that Israeli torpedo

00:40:10.100 struck with a few feet

00:40:11.960 of that Star David flag

00:40:14.380 did you

00:40:15.980 talk about this after

00:40:18.020 did you do interviews

00:40:19.980 with the media did you

00:40:21.560 tell your friends your family like how did

00:40:24.080 you respond to this once you recovered

00:40:25.420 my situation was a little different I was

00:40:27.900 on temporary assignment from my home base in

00:40:29.880 Bremerhavn, Germany. It was 10 days aboard the

00:40:32.200 Carrier America, flown back to

00:40:35.480 Luka Malta, where the ship was dry docked.

00:40:41.240 I was one more day aboard her there.

00:40:45.540 This guy, Veronica, didn't have a place to sleep, and

00:40:48.020 one of the sailors said, I'll go up to

00:40:51.680 sit bay and talk to Dr. Van Lane. He'll find you a place to sleep up

00:40:55.860 there. We were kind of chatting. It was getting

00:40:58.980 long late in the afternoon, and he said, you're welcome. There were three bunks there. He said,

00:41:04.180 you're welcome to sleep in whichever one you want. I said, I hope that doesn't get to stink in that

00:41:07.860 night. I said, what's that, Tom? There was a box in the corner roughly 18 inches square.

00:41:17.220 It was labeled unidentified human body parts.

00:41:21.780 That's what's buried in the mass grave in Arlington National Cemetery, and I slept with it that night.

00:41:26.820 two of the men

00:41:29.800 that worked for me

00:41:30.820 were in that box

00:41:34.460 were you told

00:41:37.480 by the US military

00:41:39.440 by the Marine Corps

00:41:40.220 by the Navy

00:41:40.840 not to talk about this

00:41:43.180 well mind you

00:41:46.940 we're in intelligence

00:41:47.640 business saying

00:41:48.240 just don't talk about it

00:41:49.500 there's an old saying

00:41:50.700 what you see here

00:41:51.880 what you say here

00:41:53.580 when you leave here

00:41:54.520 leave it here

00:41:57.660 I did not talk about it outside of secure spaces.

00:42:00.560 When I got back to my home base in Bremerhaven, I was put on 12-on, 12-off watch.

00:42:06.540 I talked about it rather freely in the secure spaces.

00:42:09.860 My wife didn't know what happened to me.

00:42:14.240 I was not supposed to tell him when I was aboard this ship, but no one bothered to tell me I wasn't.

00:42:19.180 When I first got aboard her, the petty officer of the deck was a longtime friend of mine, Ronnie Campbell.

00:42:25.460 I said, Ronnie, I need to let Lois know where I'm at.

00:42:30.000 Can you give me the address?

00:42:31.300 He said, yeah, well, he gave me the FBO address.

00:42:33.680 I got a postcard, wrote it on, told my wife I'd be aboard her, don't know how long.

00:42:39.900 I'll let you know sometime in the future.

00:42:42.380 Dropped it in the mail.

00:42:44.300 She'd received that card, knew I was aboard it.

00:42:48.700 On the 9th of June, a dear friend of hers that lived across the street in Bremerhaven

00:42:54.280 and waved to her to come over.

00:42:56.460 She went over and said,

00:42:57.360 did you hear about that U.S. ship being attacked?

00:42:59.720 I said, oh.

00:43:01.360 She said, yeah, the U.S.S. Liberty.

00:43:04.740 Well, I said,

00:43:06.060 I think Bryce is aboard that ship.

00:43:08.440 Well, that set a panic button.

00:43:14.260 When I got back home,

00:43:18.860 I was a mess.

00:43:20.380 I had to borrow a uniform

00:43:21.520 from one of the Marines aboard the Carrier America.

00:43:23.940 There happened to be an African-American Marine, same build that I was, real gentleman, same rank as I was, loaned me a khaki uniform.

00:43:35.900 I had to wear that uniform the next five days.

00:43:39.540 Part of that was when I got back to the ship, that oil was everywhere.

00:43:43.340 Where you went, you get drops of that oil all over you.

00:43:46.800 So I stunk from that.

00:43:48.060 I had fever blisters in my face

00:43:51.220 and this yellowish pus was oozing out

00:43:53.940 dripping over the front of me

00:43:55.080 the morning I got back

00:43:58.080 couldn't get in the apartment

00:43:59.260 second floor apartment 1.00

00:44:00.280 the neighbor Betty Bryant came to the door 1.00

00:44:03.120 said oh Bryant 0.52

00:44:05.260 said Lois went out to the base

00:44:07.180 to get the mail

00:44:08.040 said come on in I'll get you a cup of coffee

00:44:09.980 she sent me around behind the door 0.61

00:44:11.560 gave me a cup of coffee

00:44:13.500 a while later 1.00

00:44:15.560 she said oh here she is now

00:44:17.500 she'd just gotten a mail

00:44:19.920 and she'd just gotten a letter from her mother

00:44:21.780 that her grandfather passed away 0.58

00:44:23.520 my wife didn't get along very well with her mother

00:44:28.120 but she was her grandfather's 0.52

00:44:30.180 pride and joy

00:44:30.920 she's all broken up

00:44:34.060 about that

00:44:34.880 but he says, Lois, you need to come in here 0.99

00:44:37.960 three kids are there

00:44:39.280 see, Marsha, our oldest one was

00:44:41.840 six 0.73

00:44:42.560 Dorothy was four

00:44:44.960 John was

00:44:46.200 three

00:44:47.980 and 0.88

00:44:50.300 I was the ugliest mess 0.86

00:44:52.620 stumped to high heavens 0.79

00:44:54.220 kids are screaming

00:44:56.180 my wife crying

00:44:57.260 the

00:44:59.860 marine commander

00:45:01.360 calls me to his office the next day

00:45:04.040 he says

00:45:04.420 best thing for you to do to forget about this is

00:45:07.900 go to work put me on 12 hours on

00:45:09.840 12 hours off watch stand

00:45:11.080 I had to go to the doctor on the time

00:45:13.980 off 1.00

00:45:14.440 women's taken care of 1.00

00:45:17.240 the Navy 0.97

00:45:20.400 sent a JAG officer

00:45:21.960 lieutenant commander all the way from Washington

00:45:23.880 with a sheaf of papers for him to sign

00:45:25.900 he never bothered to tell

00:45:28.380 me personally you are

00:45:30.260 not to talk about this I talked about it

00:45:32.120 freely in the secure spaces because he felt

00:45:34.220 many of them had been aboard

00:45:36.080 the Liberty

00:45:36.600 or ships of her class doing 0.81

00:45:40.080 the same task 0.82

00:45:41.320 if they weren't they would be in the near

00:45:44.100 future likelihood so they all were aware of it so I talked freely about it but I did not tell my

00:45:51.500 wife anything she had no idea what was wrong with me I'd wake up screaming and crying and she had

00:45:59.480 no idea and it wasn't until um I think it was January of 1981 I was in Bible College in

00:46:11.080 Springfield, Missouri. Class was broken up over the Christmas holidays on sitting in

00:46:20.480 homiletics class, waiting for the class to start on Monday morning. And one of my classmates

00:46:25.480 comes in, he says, Bryce, were you aboard a ship with a torpedo? I said, how did you

00:46:31.180 know about that? Well, he had been in Texas over Christmas holiday. He was on his way

00:46:38.180 back late in the evening, listening to the National Public Radio

00:46:41.680 program used to run called Radio Reader.

00:46:45.780 They were reading a book by James M. Ennis Jr.,

00:46:49.120 Salt on the Liberty. And it was on page 86,

00:46:53.380 the narration about what I had done that day.

00:46:58.320 And my name was there.

00:47:01.640 And it wasn't until, I think, the following year

00:47:04.880 I'd taken a position as assistant pastor in a church in Key West, and the city library librarian was a member of the church.

00:47:14.000 And I asked her if she had a copy of that book.

00:47:16.060 She said, yeah, but there's a six-months-long waiting list for us.

00:47:19.820 Well, put me on the list.

00:47:21.820 When it became available, I immediately wrote a letter to random house publishers and said I'd like to get a hold of the author, James Ennis.

00:47:32.240 they said well we can't give you his information

00:47:35.260 but we'll forward your letter to him

00:47:36.720 just a few days after that

00:47:39.440 I got a thick packet of mail

00:47:41.480 from Mr. Ennis

00:47:42.420 had copies of the

00:47:45.240 the ship had

00:47:47.500 a newsletter that they put out

00:47:49.540 and mailed to all the crew

00:47:51.060 but they didn't know where I was until then

00:47:52.960 back issues

00:47:55.160 a list of survivors

00:47:58.920 their contact information

00:48:00.840 immediately started

00:48:01.900 calling the crew, but that wasn't until

00:48:04.220 I think

00:48:06.060 1986

00:48:07.200 we had a reunion

00:48:10.220 in

00:48:10.640 Milwaukee, Wisconsin. That was the

00:48:14.340 first one that I went to.

00:48:17.260 There was a library

00:48:18.460 in Grafton, Wisconsin, about 30 miles north

00:48:20.520 of Milwaukee.

00:48:24.340 The town had built a new high school.

00:48:26.480 The old high school was an old building

00:48:28.180 that was roughly a century

00:48:30.260 old, but perfectly serviceable, and the town wanted to make that a public library, so they

00:48:39.240 had a committee to raise funds.

00:48:43.540 There are a couple of industrial donors at Grove Brothers.

00:48:49.880 Tech Group was one of them, gave a six-figure donation, mind you, 40 years ago.

00:48:55.140 It was a pretty high sum of money.

00:48:57.700 so the committee said well we'll give you the privilege of naming the library

00:49:04.160 and he said well i'd like that to be named the uss liberty memorial library

00:49:10.560 well during world war ii not far from grafton wisconsin was a nazi youth camp

00:49:20.760 could you imagine what that

00:49:25.880 implied for the Jewish population

00:49:28.900 the city of Milwaukee

00:49:29.820 that raised a

00:49:32.960 firestorm

00:49:33.680 but it went forward

00:49:38.120 and to the best of my knowledge there was

00:49:40.840 no violence

00:49:41.820 and to this day it's still

00:49:46.800 the USS Liberty

00:49:47.540 so that was 19 years after the attack and and i remember 1986 7 that at that time um

00:49:59.260 the consensus was that this was an accident like if you learned about the uss liberty at school

00:50:04.800 which you probably didn't but if you did you would be taught that this was a case of mistaken

00:50:10.280 identity that the israelis thought it was an egyptian ship well i suppose you could claim

00:50:15.000 that the Israeli pilots were colorblind.

00:50:17.320 The Egyptian ships were painted black.

00:50:18.940 Ours were painted gray.

00:50:22.400 You can't jam the structure frequencies

00:50:24.640 by accident.

00:50:26.160 You must know your target.

00:50:28.820 So that falls by the away side.

00:50:32.620 The machine gunning and the life rafts,

00:50:34.180 that's pretty obvious.

00:50:35.020 That's a violation of accepted law.

00:50:38.500 how did it make you feel as a survivor of the attack to hear people dismiss it as a case of

00:50:50.040 mistaken identity and well at that time i had a small trucking company and it was

00:50:56.820 you pretty well had to work around the clock if i i had a grain haul in business two trucks

00:51:04.160 three trailers when i wasn't booking loads i was hauling loads so i wasn't booking or hauling

00:51:09.480 loads i was under changing the oil or fixing this or fixing that i barely had time to think

00:51:15.220 it really wasn't till sometime after that where i happened to get a job with a union company i had

00:51:24.920 a little more income coming in we were able to attend a reunion in washington dc and that's where

00:51:31.260 I began to really find out about what all had taken place.

00:51:35.700 That was later in the 1980s, early 1990s.

00:51:41.560 And what did you find out?

00:51:49.380 I didn't know the names of any of the fellows that I pulled out

00:51:52.060 or was credited with saving their lives.

00:51:54.540 Joe Lantini, even though I kept him from drowning,

00:51:58.620 I didn't actually get him out of there.

00:52:01.260 Dave McFagan, it was not until

00:52:03.140 1997, a reunion

00:52:05.580 in 1997, I found out who that was.

00:52:09.380 It's pretty ironic.

00:52:11.440 He was in the hospital

00:52:12.520 at Naples, Italy.

00:52:15.580 He'd taken some

00:52:16.740 travel in his privates.

00:52:19.340 Doctors told him he'd probably

00:52:20.820 never have any more children.

00:52:22.480 Well, he did have. He had a boy and a girl.

00:52:25.820 At that reunion,

00:52:27.700 one of the

00:52:28.980 other fellows that I thought that I

00:52:30.760 brought out of there was

00:52:32.420 Harold

00:52:34.880 Six, Gene Six. Gene was

00:52:37.000 his nickname. He and I were

00:52:38.760 having a beer, kind of joking around.

00:52:41.520 Someone else came in

00:52:42.640 and the tub in the 0.76

00:52:44.940 bathroom was full of ice water

00:52:46.680 and beer.

00:52:48.520 We were in there yakking and someone came in

00:52:50.940 and said, hey Sarge, there's another guy

00:52:53.000 here too who saved his life.

00:52:54.780 Really?

00:52:56.520 Went out into the other room and

00:52:58.220 there's dave mcfagan in a wheelchair was daughter born later after the attack pushing him in a

00:53:06.000 wheelchair now uh the the anniversary the 59th anniversary of the attack on the liberty was just

00:53:14.640 the other day within the last week and it was a topic that was discussed in public and you heard

00:53:21.420 people defend the israeli government by saying they didn't know it was an american ship and

00:53:27.620 anyone who says otherwise is an anti-Semite, hates Jews, how would you respond to that?

00:53:34.700 Anyone who knows anything about international recognition of ships at sea

00:53:38.540 would conclude differently, would have to conclude differently.

00:53:47.220 It's very obvious that it was a dual vert attack.

00:53:50.260 Dave Lewis, prior to his death, was giving an interview and he said, if it was an attack,

00:54:00.060 it was a best planned attack in the military.

00:54:03.760 The ammunition that they were using, the targets that they were doing, heat-seeking missiles

00:54:10.240 designed to knock out all of our heavy transmitting antennas, it had to all be planned in advance. 0.94

00:54:20.260 The upshot, in my opinion, of the whole thing, Israel is grabbing Palestinian lands. 0.84

00:54:35.160 Gaza Strip, in total rubble. 0.74

00:54:38.560 70,000 documented killed, probably twice that many, buried in the rubble that could never be recovered from the time it's elapsed. 0.56

00:54:49.220 The United States supplying the bombs.

00:54:53.700 Israel invading their neighbors to the north, Lebanon.

00:54:57.840 There are a million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip homeless as a result of Israel's actions.

00:55:07.040 Lebanon, southern Lebanon, whole towns destroyed and leveled.

00:55:12.560 A million Lebanese refugees without a home. 1.00

00:55:19.220 Where is the humanity? 0.99

00:55:23.180 Shouldn't that be on the conscience of every American that we're supplying the bonds?

00:55:29.480 That we're supplying Israel with $3.8 billion a year in foreign aid?

00:55:37.720 Shouldn't that shake our conscience?

00:55:39.700 well if our leaders were able to ignore an attack on an american vessel the the liberty

00:55:47.860 almost 60 years ago clearly this is not a normal relationship between the united states and israel

00:55:55.780 what country ignores an attack on its own navy

00:55:59.820 tucker in 2005 stephen rosen who was then a senior official with the american israeli

00:56:08.640 political affairs committee was dying with

00:56:12.340 Jeffrey Goldberg at that time he was

00:56:16.440 with the New Yorker magazine I believe he's with

00:56:20.180 Atlantic magazine now he said to

00:56:24.600 Jeffrey you see this napkin in 24 hours

00:56:28.000 I can have the signature of 70 senators

00:56:32.500 on this napkin

00:56:34.360 does that tell you something about

00:56:38.640 who runs America.

00:56:41.200 How does that make you feel

00:56:42.840 as someone who is wounded

00:56:44.040 in the service of the U.S. military,

00:56:46.280 in the service of the United States?

00:56:49.660 Disgusted.

00:56:55.180 Yeah.

00:56:57.700 Why are you thinking about this now?

00:56:59.020 Thomas Massey.

00:57:00.820 Yeah.

00:57:02.680 His political career was over.

00:57:04.800 The president

00:57:06.320 and his

00:57:08.020 political affairs

00:57:09.520 supporters

00:57:11.080 literally threw millions of dollars at Thomas

00:57:14.240 Massey's

00:57:15.800 primary campaign

00:57:18.040 and got him

00:57:19.760 pitched off the ballot

00:57:21.280 and Congress

00:57:24.020 of Massey stuck his neck out by

00:57:25.940 speaking publicly from

00:57:28.120 the floor of the United States Congress

00:57:29.780 there were

00:57:31.540 roughly 15 perhaps 17

00:57:34.220 of us survivors that were there

00:57:35.780 family members

00:57:37.540 sitting in the gallery when he gave his

00:57:41.580 five plus minute speech on the USS Liberty

00:57:44.440 urging the Congress to take action. Article 1

00:57:49.700 Section 8, U.S. Constitution to

00:57:52.620 this is not exact wording, investigate

00:57:57.760 acts of piracy on the high seas and offenses

00:58:01.760 against the law of nations. And Congress has ignored that

00:58:05.580 for the past 59 years.

00:58:07.220 Now here, Thomas Massey sticks his neck out.

00:58:13.420 The gentleman took us all to lunch afterwards

00:58:17.000 at the Bull Feather Restaurant there in Washington.

00:58:21.720 I think that name is rather ironic.

00:58:23.700 Bullshit Bull Feathers. 0.86

00:58:26.740 Treated us to lunch. 0.98

00:58:28.780 Personally met each one of us.

00:58:30.080 While we were there, that day's Speaker Pro Tem

00:58:33.440 of the Congress, Daryl Issa, came in,

00:58:38.260 personally shook hands with every crew member, introduced himself around,

00:58:42.040 made a few jokes about that jarhead that was of order.

00:58:47.400 Another congressman also came in,

00:58:50.560 Congressman McGuire, same thing, introduced himself around.

00:58:58.460 It left me with a wonderful feeling.

00:59:00.820 Perhaps something can be done after 59 years to wake Congress up to their obligation to humanity to do the right thing.

00:59:15.640 What would you like to see Congress do?

00:59:17.940 An open investigation. 0.78

00:59:20.100 While some of us are still alive to testify, let all the dirty laundry hang out there.

00:59:26.080 if there are charges to be

00:59:29.880 charged, bring them forward

00:59:32.180 just air it out

00:59:35.220 and let the American people

00:59:36.860 the world's public at large

00:59:39.660 make up their own

00:59:40.560 when they see the facts

00:59:44.240 laid bare

00:59:45.460 it's the same thing with the Epstein files

00:59:49.440 hiding them

00:59:50.860 let it hang out

00:59:53.660 let us all look at it

00:59:56.080 If someone's guilty, fine, charge them.

01:00:00.480 Sure, there's going to be some big-time names.

01:00:02.760 Sure, there's going to be some billionaires involved.

01:00:05.160 I'm just a little guy.

01:00:06.340 I'm not even a millionaire.

01:00:08.040 Fine, come get me.

01:00:10.480 Do you think that'll happen?

01:00:12.500 I don't know.

01:00:14.400 Don't care.

01:00:16.300 Well, I'm grateful you did this interview, Mr. Lockwood.

01:00:20.540 Oh, Tucker, this is such an honor.

01:00:23.480 It's an honor for me.

01:00:26.080 We'll be right back.

The Tucker Carlson Show - July 10, 2026

USS Liberty Survivor Reveals What Really Happened the Day Israel Attacked & the Lies Covering It Up

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