This Past Weekend with Theo Von - #680 - Ultramarathoner Mark Dowdle

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00:00:30.000 He's an ultra endurance athlete known for running some of the most brutal marathons in existence.

00:00:37.340 He just completed the last Soul Ultra in Germany, 395 miles in four days.

00:00:45.020 I enjoyed my time with today's guest, Mr. Mark Dowdle.

00:01:00.000 you can drop this down just a touch yeah and if you need to move it or whatever if something's

00:01:10.700 getting weird just do whatever you got to do um yeah dude you're a freak bro like a nice freak

00:01:17.520 i appreciate that yeah not like yeah not like a carnival one but um the race the race you just 0.93

00:01:23.120 one. It's called the Last Soul Ultra Marathon. You ran 395 miles in just under 94 hours without

00:01:30.740 sleep. It's a backyard ultra. For our listeners that do not know, can you explain what a backyard

00:01:38.080 ultra marathon is? Sure. Yeah. A backyard ultra is when you run 4.167 miles or 6.7 kilometers

00:01:47.720 every hour on the hour until one person's left so it's also people call it the last person standing

00:01:54.320 so you have you know 59 minutes and 59 seconds to complete this four mile loop if you run it

00:02:00.600 in 45 minutes you get 15 minutes of rest if you you run it in 52 minutes you get eight minutes

00:02:06.040 of rest and you just keep doing this same loop over and over again until either you time out

00:02:11.780 you physically can't go anymore or you mentally just are done and the real obstacle of this race

00:02:19.780 yes is the physical aspect to it but it's dealing with the unknown because you don't know when the

00:02:26.760 race is going to end and so it's a constant battle between how do I stack up against these other

00:02:33.560 people and it's it's a big game of trying to bring yourself back to the present and not compare

00:02:40.020 yourself of how you perceive your pain because we're all experiencing pain out there. But I can

00:02:46.900 only feel my pain. And then I look at somebody else who might be doing a good job of posturing

00:02:54.500 and I will perceive myself as worse off or less than or not capable enough because of a perception

00:03:03.320 that I've created in my mind about who they are compared to myself. And so the thing I love about

00:03:09.280 this race is yes it's a physical thing but it is like every loop I have to make a commitment to say

00:03:18.340 the story in my mind that I'm creating is not the full truth and can I take one more step and it is

00:03:25.940 a constant recommitment to that process of like I can do this if I take one more step that's

00:03:31.340 evidence I can keep going and it's a it's the race has blown up a lot over the last couple years

00:03:37.360 and I think a lot of it has to do with how accessible it is like if you've never run

00:03:43.880 a mile in your life it's more digestible to say I can try and complete one loop of four miles

00:03:52.440 over I'm going to sign up for a half marathon and do months of training to get to that point of

00:03:58.240 being able to run 13 miles or 26.2 miles so you might have a lot of people signing up just like

00:04:03.700 Like, oh, I can do four miles and I can at least do one loop.

00:04:05.960 Yes.

00:04:06.220 And that's the beauty of it is we're all on the same loop at the same time.

00:04:09.820 And so I go for almost four days and somebody out there went for three loops.

00:04:15.960 And the relationship to hard is equally as difficult for that person as it is to me.

00:04:22.460 It is both of us trying to figure out how far can we go.

00:04:26.280 And then when we come up with obstacles, how can we just take one more step forward?

00:04:31.040 You said like the story in your mind that you start to create that I guess it's like a story of like defeat or that I can't like what stories do you notice your mind start to create?

00:04:42.260 That's a great question.

00:04:43.580 I think it is.

00:04:47.620 I'm not good enough.

00:04:49.820 I'm not capable enough.

00:04:51.940 I'm not worthy enough.

00:04:53.380 this race the outcome of this race is going to determine my value or not like all of these things

00:05:02.260 that I know aren't true and and this is the power of having friends like Cody who's here with us or

00:05:09.420 my wife or my friend Kellen who was out there at the race is every time I get to go back into the

00:05:16.980 tent where they're sitting, we, I know in my heart of hearts, even out when I'm on the course

00:05:24.060 and I'm 60 hours into the race and the story starts to be crafted in my mind of, I'm not good

00:05:29.560 enough. I get to go back to a tent full of people that say, not through their words necessarily,

00:05:35.680 but through their actions and through the trust we've built is like, dude, whatever happens here

00:05:40.040 is not going to change how we feel about you, how we love you. We're going to be proud of you no

00:05:45.580 matter what. They just want me to be able to make a decision I'm going to be proud of at the end of

00:05:53.340 the day and be able to honor my word, honor my commitment of taking that step when I know I'm

00:06:01.140 able to. And so the narratives are constantly going of like trying to convince myself that

00:06:09.020 I'm not done yet, even though every logical reason to stop has presented itself.

00:06:14.980 Wow. So it's almost like you stop and get like an emotional hydration in a way.

00:06:18.560 Yeah. So the funny thing is I think about it in terms of these like highs and lows

00:06:27.300 of the first 24 hours are always the most difficult because I haven't invested enough

00:06:34.060 into the experience to really see the benefit of that outcome or going through that hellish

00:06:40.740 experience to be worthy or valuable of any sign. Once you get through those 24 hours,

00:06:46.120 you start to get into the experience and you start to feel the effects and you're like, okay,

00:06:50.680 let me just kind of settle into this feeling, this experience and really test out what it's

00:06:57.820 really trying to teach me about myself. And there always comes a moment because after you kind of

00:07:03.260 get out of that first lull, you start to slowly decay. And it's from a physical side. It's a

00:07:09.460 mental side. It's a spiritual side. And there's always a point in the race where I need to cry.

00:07:15.820 Like crying is my release point of all the tension, all of the burdens that I'm holding on to, 0.86

00:07:22.980 all of the pressure that I'm putting on myself about this, what this race means,

00:07:28.760 what it means about me, what it means for my family. And, uh, so 60, 62 hours into this race,

00:07:36.560 I called Cody and I called another friend and I was just like, I just need to verbalize that this

00:07:42.760 is so hard. This is so hard. And the problem with it being so hard is I know that I'm not going to

00:07:50.340 stop. And because of that, that means I have to keep walking into this pain and I have to keep

00:07:57.480 going towards it. And that sucks. That sucks. That realization that you know it's going to be hard. 0.96

00:08:04.280 You can't imagine it being more difficult than that. And yet you have to say, I'm going to stay

00:08:09.880 right here. And when I can verbalize that with somebody that knows, loves, and trusts me, and

00:08:16.280 they can sort of reinstate the belief of why I'm there, and I can cry, it's almost like I'm

00:08:23.700 rejuvenated in that moment because I've released myself of all this external pressure and I've let

00:08:29.300 myself and my body release itself of that tension. And then I'm like, Oh, okay, let's go.

00:08:35.260 Dude. Yeah. After you cry, you feel great, which is crazy. And dude, I've thought about this for

00:08:40.340 a while. Actually crying is like, if you're like crying because like you did something didn't

00:08:45.000 happen, like that's maybe one thing, but crying, it's almost like it's sweat from the weight that

00:08:50.200 we carry inside dude it's like sweat out of my eyes it's like if anything deserves to sweat

00:08:56.680 it's this it's this discomfort it's this weight it's this like whatever heaviness or shit whatever 0.61

00:09:03.820 i'm holding on to you know whatever i can't understand or can't fathom or can't like

00:09:09.060 matriculate enough to be okay with me you know like those are the things that's like please god

00:09:15.160 pull this sweat out of me. Like, let me release this. And if it comes out of your eyes, that's

00:09:19.800 fine. You know, like, yeah, dude. But just to get that out, bro, I heard, I heard, uh, I heard you

00:09:25.680 say that at hour 60 of an ultra, you'll find out who you are. Yeah. Not what you think, not what

00:09:34.060 you believe, not what other people think you are, but you'll meet the person that you are out there

00:09:39.300 on that course and that's why you love them dude and no joke bro that got me out of bed to go work

00:09:45.740 out bro it was 4 30 in the morning I probably should have stayed in bed but it had me that

00:09:50.740 hyped dude just like hearing you talk about like this relationship uh like with yourself and just

00:09:56.140 confronting that part of us um that we don't want to just and just confronting this thing of quit

00:10:02.660 you know? Yeah. I think it's, it's so easy. Like it's easy sitting here talking about the

00:10:10.240 experience and saying, yeah, I, I am who I say I am, but what does it actually look like practically

00:10:16.320 out in real life? And, and to be truth be told, it's easy to do it in a backyard ultra for me

00:10:23.440 because I've had experience with that. And let's be honest, I get, I get applauded for it when I

00:10:29.540 do it out on the course and I have success with it, people will applaud me for it. And so there's

00:10:34.920 a certain level of selfishness in that, to be frank. But the true essence of where I build that

00:10:42.160 from and how I'm able to do that out on the course is, like I say this all the time, like

00:10:47.460 I don't get to determine if I'm a good friend. My friends get to determine that. I don't get

00:10:52.940 to determine if I'm a good husband. My wife gets to determine that. And they base that off of the 0.95

00:10:58.640 integrity and character that I have. And where am I getting that from? I get that from scripture.

00:11:04.300 I get that from Christ. And how do I live up to that? That is by me continuously doing the little

00:11:10.300 things in my day-to-day life, even outside of like the training, the running and the stuff that gets

00:11:15.260 me prepared for that, but honoring my commitments in all the little aspects of my life. Because

00:11:21.360 this conversation right here will show up in my next race because the story that will then be

00:11:27.780 crafted is like, you were on the Theo Vaughn podcast and you talked about how you are a man

00:11:32.000 of your word. Are you going to do that right now when it's really tough to do so? And that's scary

00:11:38.340 because I can't run from that version of myself out there. I have to make a decision when it's

00:11:47.760 most difficult, when it's most challenging. And I have to say, I am going to be that man or I'm not,

00:11:55.340 or I'm going to allow the excuses that are rational justifications

00:12:00.560 to convince me that I can walk away before it's my time.

00:12:05.380 Yeah, dude.

00:12:06.320 Like, yeah, just hearing you have this relationship kind of with your own integrity,

00:12:10.380 you know, I think it's such an important conversation

00:12:12.740 that needs to kind of be happening in the world right now.

00:12:16.240 And I shouldn't say that.

00:12:17.940 It's an important conversation that I need to be happening with myself, you know.

00:12:22.060 and I'm so I'm just so glad that uh that you're here kind of sharing some of your thought

00:12:27.460 processes and and just us even thinking about that yeah because I like to believe I'm one person

00:12:32.900 but live kind of like another person yeah and that creates a conflict in me yes and it creates

00:12:40.320 an uncomfortability yes and at times it creates you know it's created an unreliableness even to

00:12:48.580 myself. And dude, that a lot of times is like, when I'm at my, when I'm with myself, that is,

00:12:55.440 um, it's not embarrassing, you know, but it's just like, uh, I can do better, you know? And I,

00:13:04.220 and I want to, so I'm glad that I notice it more, but it's, it is an uncomfort because it's like,

00:13:09.760 yeah, well, it's like, I'm this, but this is what I do. And if those things aren't

00:13:14.520 in messed with each other, then I'm going to, I'm going to be in a state of discomfort.

00:13:19.100 Um, well, can I just say something on that? Like that, does that make sense? What I'm saying?

00:13:23.520 It does a hundred percent. And I relate to that, uh, so completely because I'm sure at least what

00:13:31.020 I'm pulling from that is there's a, a burden to that almost because there's a recognition of

00:13:37.020 there are parts of our lives that we feel disconnected to our action and our word there

00:13:43.180 creates this discomfort and that can be burdensome. That can be like, man, I'm, I'm not

00:13:48.300 living up to who I want to be. And that can almost bring us down. Yes. But there's a, there's a flip

00:13:54.720 side of that, of there, a lot of people don't think like that. A lot of people aren't aware of

00:14:00.160 that. And there is a, a true blessing and one, we're never going to be perfect Theo. Yeah. Like

00:14:08.340 So we got to remove that and give ourselves grace and understand that through the awareness of that, we can either beat ourselves down or we can build ourselves up and say, I can do better.

00:14:23.220 I will do better. And if I fail, I'm going to continue to try and work to be better and have people in our lives that are going to hold us accountable and build us up so that we can continue to live that way.

00:14:38.340 But it's a blessing and a curse because when we are aware of that,

00:14:43.040 we can, man, we can beat ourselves down.

00:14:45.000 The trap, yeah.

00:14:46.060 For me, it's like the discomfort kind of became just sometimes too much.

00:14:50.520 But also, yeah, it's like if I hold myself to too high of a standard

00:14:53.540 to some type of a perfection, right?

00:14:55.740 That's such a trap.

00:14:56.800 We can't do it.

00:14:57.920 I know.

00:14:58.140 It's impossible.

00:14:59.400 Dude, so much of my life, I would hold myself to this level

00:15:01.820 that was impossible to reach, right?

00:15:04.340 It was impossible to reach.

00:15:05.500 so that way i was always failing and then in always failing it would match with some old

00:15:13.400 belief of mine that i was always that i was a failure anyway and so it's like it's weird like

00:15:19.380 in setting in aiming for perfection i was always setting myself up for this old magnet that was

00:15:25.580 just deep inside of me somewhere that was like you're you're not worth it or whatever or uh 0.76

00:15:32.360 yeah, you're a failure. You're no good. You're ugly. There's something wrong with you, right? 1.00

00:15:38.200 And yeah, man, that's been a big trap in my life. And I have more awareness about it now.

00:15:43.960 I think the place that I'm in right now is a lot of the kind of giving myself grace just for the

00:15:50.200 times that I've held myself to some level of impossibility, unrealistic expectations.

00:15:58.300 Yeah. Do you ever feel like giving yourself that grace is giving yourself, like, cutting yourself slack that you don't deserve? Does that make sense?

00:16:10.820 Yeah, let me think about it for a second. Do I ever feel like giving myself grace?

00:16:16.120 Like, there's this perfect standard that you're holding yourself to.

00:16:19.640 Yeah.

00:16:19.760 And if you fail, it's reinforcement that you're a failure.

00:16:23.320 Okay.

00:16:23.800 And at least that's the story in your mind.

00:16:27.320 And there could be another story of like, I'm going to give myself grace.

00:16:32.560 And the negative story of that is, oh, you're just giving yourself grace because you can't hold yourself to a higher standard.

00:16:38.940 Does that make sense?

00:16:39.820 Yeah, it does.

00:16:40.480 I don't, yeah, I don't do that.

00:16:41.900 Okay, good.

00:16:42.460 But I do see exactly what you're saying.

00:16:44.660 Yes.

00:16:45.180 Yeah, I don't do that.

00:16:46.120 I think it's just like, I just feel like I should always be able to figure it out.

00:16:51.760 it's this eternal thing of like man why can't you figure this out you can like it's not even

00:16:58.200 like an encouraging thing it's not like you can do this it's just like why can't you figure this

00:17:02.440 out you can figure you know and so some of that is realizing that I can't but then also there's

00:17:07.360 a gift in it is that I don't have to do things alone anymore and that starting to realize that

00:17:15.060 is going to change my life where'd you learn that I think just when I was a kid it was just like

00:17:20.280 uh yeah there was just nobody to rely on yeah you know and so i just need to start to rely on

00:17:25.620 yourself i think i guess where did you learn that you could rely like other people you could rely

00:17:31.040 on other people what was the turning point for that it's been coming new into my life i think

00:17:35.340 i think some of it has come through like recovery i've been uh just focusing back in on my recovery

00:17:40.060 a lot more um probably developing a better relationship with god in my higher power

00:17:45.720 you know yeah and just realizing that i'm not alone yeah you know and it's uh we're supposed

00:17:51.540 to be talking about racing um but this is okay this is great hey this is the biggest race in

00:17:55.500 the world you know uh you know what i'm saying yeah i do yeah so i think it's like that and just

00:18:01.980 like yeah leaning on other people with like what's really going on you know and not being afraid to

00:18:07.880 tell god what's going on like to the word yeah you know not to be like uh even sometimes words

00:18:15.020 in language I'm afraid to use that I wouldn't even want to use around God or whatever. But then

00:18:18.920 it's like, you got to, you know what I'm saying? Like you got to put them in the fine print of a

00:18:22.200 prayer, you know? So it's like, I think, yeah, it's like that. Yeah. It's like, I think kind

00:18:28.560 of being louder with the fine print of my prayers, if that makes any sense. It does. Yeah. So yeah.

00:18:34.580 Thanks for having me. Think about that. I didn't even know I needed to think about that today,

00:18:36.940 man. It's got me sweating. That's good. That's okay. Yeah. Yeah, man. One of the things I was

00:18:41.680 so like that really like woke me up uh to you was just some of your um just the ways that you look

00:18:48.300 at that stuff because it's so important you know and i think just having a bit i think just having

00:18:53.600 a bigger relationship with myself like a real relationship like what am i really doing here

00:18:59.100 you know like who do i you know i'm saying like asking myself some of the tougher things um

00:19:03.360 and uh and i want to get i want to get into that and i know that you i i know about your journaling

00:19:08.460 practice and that you have this that you've kind of developed this relationship with yourself and

00:19:12.160 i think it's really cool and i want to learn more about that um but i want to learn more about the

00:19:16.560 race first okay is that okay yeah that's totally cool okay cool thanks for being here dude yeah

00:19:20.760 thank you for having me um so so you talked about like if you finish a loop first so the loop is

00:19:27.400 let's just let's just say it's four miles to make it easy for people cool so the loop is four miles

00:19:31.640 and then at every hour on the hour you have to go back out for the loop again yes and the

00:19:36.560 contenders that continue to show back up for that loop they're still in the race yes and it keeps

00:19:41.060 going on until only one person can do the loop by themselves yes got it and when you is is there

00:19:48.560 strategy in finishing that loop early so you have time to um eat or or hydrate or communicate with

00:19:56.680 your with your tent or or do you want to finish like right up at the minute so you just go right

00:20:02.220 into the next run like take me into some of those type of strategies yeah there's there's different

00:20:08.640 strategies for different people on how they like to run the loops I personally like to run the loops

00:20:13.480 in 50 minutes and pretty consistently almost like a dog that's being trained I will come in at 50

00:20:20.780 minutes I'll lay down immediately I'll sleep for five minutes and when I say sleep sometimes it is

00:20:27.580 me just laying down and resting other times sleep deprivation will take its hold and I will get

00:20:34.780 like these fragmented images flickering like these photographs cycling through my mind like I can't

00:20:42.220 even hold on to them they're just flipping so fast and it'll it'll happen for you know five six

00:20:49.200 minutes and then at 57 minutes into the hour there's a loudspeaker that'll say three minutes

00:20:56.320 runners three minutes and that is your wake up call theo that is like i'm awake enough to hear

00:21:05.100 that but also asleep enough to like be getting rest and so then i'll wake up at that alarm

00:21:12.500 i'll sit up i'll sit in my chair my wife will feed me there she'll feed me uh pancakes and

00:21:19.420 syrup oh god steak and eggs at three in the morning this is so roman oh it's great it's

00:21:24.680 great yeah and uh and i'll eat for about two minutes two and a half minutes and then i'll

00:21:31.920 walk to the start line and you got to be in the corral when that bell rings so if i'm in my tent

00:21:36.960 and they ring that bell i'm out so you got to be in that corral and you have a coffee or something

00:21:41.860 right before you go out oh coffee red bull um and you're oh so you're just like a construction

00:21:48.280 worker pretty much you should see the stuff i'm eating and drinking out there it is like

00:21:54.140 you know a kid in a candy store you're like let's go and when you put a piece of gum in your mouth

00:21:59.300 do you keep something like that to keep you like going like are people putting zins in is that a

00:22:03.820 thing that people are doing people do zins and nicotine out there i don't uh i do it in my daily

00:22:09.480 life not entirely proud of it but i don't do it during the race because i'm like this is a reward

00:22:16.000 for after when it's all said and done um and it can kind of mess with your bowel system out there

00:22:22.180 you know so there's a thing called the poop loop so you have as much time in that hour to take care

00:22:29.380 of you know sleep nutrition going to the bathroom some people they'll know they'll need a poop loop

00:22:36.800 so they'll run the loop in 45 minutes so they can take a poop and then they'll be ready to go for

00:22:41.900 that next loop. Can you tell when someone's on their poop loop? Oh yeah. Yeah. People like to

00:22:46.100 announce it too. It's like, all right, I'm going for a poop loop on this one. So they'll just speed

00:22:50.220 it up. Or there's sometimes there's a port-a-potties right outside of the corral. So as the loop

00:22:58.380 starts, you are able to use the two port-a-potties that are right there and they'll sprint right for

00:23:05.520 it. And just to get it out of the way on the course. Yeah. They'll do it right there in the

00:23:09.480 first like few steps in the porta potty and then they'll run you know if you're going to run a

00:23:14.660 poop loop you want to get it done before you have to run fast yeah that'd be tough to carry with you

00:23:18.940 if you're trying to run pretty fast but then there's other things like I'll get in and I'll

00:23:25.400 do a 45 minute loop and I will get entirely undressed I'll stand in a bucket of water 0.99

00:23:32.360 and my wife will shower me like full service, um, servant, uh, wife of like being able to be 1.00

00:23:41.040 there and help me through this entire experience. And she's like, yep, we got to get you showered 0.99

00:23:45.200 up. We got to get, you know, aquaphor and lube on your feet and in between your armpits and stuff. 0.91

00:23:51.700 So is that like a caretaking ritual almost in a way? Yeah. So there's an emotional value to that

00:23:56.700 as well. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Like if you feel cared for, then things are possible. A hundred percent.

00:24:02.040 And in those dark moments during the race, really, it's not something that she says to me, but it's more of a look where I can say, Lucy, this is really hard. And sometimes she'll say it more often. It's more of a look of like, as long as you're in that darkness, I'm going to be right there with you. And she'll just hug me. And it's like that hug tells me everything's okay because I'm not experiencing this darkness alone.

00:24:29.140 There's somebody who might not be out running the course with me, but she's back here as invested, as concerned, as, you know, experiencing the hard times as I am.

00:24:42.260 And that allows me to keep going because somebody is there with me.

00:24:45.980 You have the power almost of two people when you're doing it.

00:24:48.660 Yes.

00:24:49.480 There's love and commitment there.

00:24:51.580 Yeah.

00:24:52.000 It's beautiful, dude.

00:24:52.900 yeah and just the the ability just like when someone is like saying something's hard just

00:24:59.100 not even to tell them something just give them a hug you know my brother does that sometimes like

00:25:05.500 a couple times over the years i've been going through it dude and i like one time i pulled

00:25:10.540 over by this donut shop and like i was just like what just it was just like one of those times i

00:25:15.860 was like processing old stuff and i was just like bawling in my truck and my brother was like uh

00:25:20.840 and I was just telling my brother like what was going on and um he's like I can just sit here

00:25:26.440 with you and not say anything you know he's like I have like 20 extra minutes I'll just sit here

00:25:31.120 with you not say anything that's beautiful but I just want you to know that I'm here you know

00:25:34.360 and dude I melted bro I like melted things that were like hurting from like I don't even know

00:25:42.460 like my feet got smaller bro I freaking I was just loose I mean I was just all these came up

00:25:48.340 You don't say my shoes didn't fit later, but it was just like, like all just like all this old stuff came up because it just that kind of moment.

00:25:56.160 It never happened. Not trying. I'm not trying to take away from your story.

00:25:59.660 It's it's but that's what it's about. Like, that's why I run, because I think it's such a good depiction of how.

00:26:07.020 like I really feel this responsibility to share what I experienced on that course and how I

00:26:15.160 genuinely think I have the success I have is because we get those moments and that's the

00:26:22.740 recipe for success in life like how good did you feel after those 20 minutes it was honestly in a

00:26:29.720 weird way one of the neatest times of my life and you feel connected to your brother there's

00:26:34.900 and no words need to be said and it's like what else what else are we chasing after like the win

00:26:40.560 is great don't get me wrong I love it and it's part of the reason I'm sitting here with you and

00:26:45.860 all that's great but like what I take away from that race and the races that I get to do is I get

00:26:54.560 to create stronger relationships with the people that I love and do so in a way where we're all

00:27:01.260 working towards this same mission together, not to win the race, but to come out the other side

00:27:06.260 of it transformed by this experience. Bro, as you're saying that, like we have this guy coming

00:27:13.480 on named Bishop Robert Barron. He's an active bishop and he's also a historian, like a Catholic

00:27:19.160 historian. And then we had this guru on the other day, Guru Dev. And both of them, I've heard say

00:27:25.320 this thing that when people have like a friendship or a relationship, that's fine. Like if they're

00:27:31.280 friends, it's a friendship is good, right? If there's a relationship or a husband and wife,

00:27:34.980 that's good. But when they have a common interest that moves them forward, those are the things

00:27:41.320 that keep people together and keep friendships and relationships together. So even as you're

00:27:45.740 saying, it's like you run, right? But it brings people into your world and gives them something

00:27:50.080 also to care about. It gives, um, it gives your friends something to be associated with. And like,

00:27:55.320 And then now they're a partner in it. And somehow it's like, so it's like, I think when people,

00:28:00.140 it's like taking action in some way, I think helps. Sometimes we don't realize like the

00:28:06.560 actions that some of us take are things that can keep us together with someone else. And then once

00:28:13.260 somebody else is on board, now you're taking that action together. Right. And you have like a journey

00:28:17.180 in the world. And sometimes that journey just gets you through a few years. Sometimes it'll

00:28:20.840 get you through a lifetime, you know? And there's no, there's no action too small for that to

00:28:26.260 happen. Like someone doesn't have to go run 400 miles in order to experience that. They can just

00:28:31.860 sit in that car asking a brother for help. And that is, that is the most important thing I get

00:28:38.580 from running 400 miles. And we get to do that in our everyday life. If we take action, like you

00:28:44.140 said. Yeah, man, so much of it's action. I quit letting my thoughts, like I start to notice my

00:28:49.260 thoughts more i've been meditating a lot and i'm just having finally i get to see what's going on 0.87

00:28:53.600 dude i had no idea i was a damn video game and now every now and then yeah i have the control in my

00:29:01.020 hands and i'm like oh interesting where even just a second i start to notice some thoughts i'm like 0.93

00:29:08.520 those are trash bro these are recyclable that's a thought that they played yesterday it's like

00:29:13.520 but i just i don't know i'm not saying i know anything i'm just saying like that's just been

00:29:18.500 like an experience I've been having and it's been, it's felt kind of rewarding. Um, yeah,

00:29:24.200 it just felt like, uh, I don't know. It's almost, it's starting to make me a little bit want to

00:29:29.660 know myself even more. And that's a, that's cool, but it's also a little spooky. This episode is

00:29:36.240 sponsored by BetterHelp. If you could wake up tomorrow and be better at one thing, what would

00:29:43.360 that be? For me, it would be probably just listening better and not just offering an idea,

00:29:52.960 just listening. If somebody asked for a suggestion, maybe offer something, but otherwise just be a

00:29:58.920 batch of ears. I think that's what I would like to do. That would just be something I'd like to

00:30:03.820 do better. Better is a feeling defined by you. And for BetterHelp, it's a BetterHelp therapist

00:30:11.560 who really gets you it's a focus on global emotional well-being with thousands of therapists

00:30:18.620 and millions of members in over 100 countries it's progress sign up and get 10 off at better

00:30:27.560 help.com slash theo that's better h-e-l-p.com slash t-h-e-o um to get back to racing how uh

00:30:40.540 Do you plan the calories and hydration you're going to intake

00:30:43.380 before you go out there and when you're out there?

00:30:46.760 Yeah, yes and no.

00:30:48.420 So we go into a race having a plan that we hold loosely onto.

00:30:57.200 So much can happen in four days of running.

00:31:02.220 The weather can change.

00:31:05.960 My appetite can change drastically.

00:31:09.380 And so if I had a certain, like, I'm going to eat this, this loop, and I'm going to have this amount of calorie intake, and I'm going to have this amount of sodium, to me, that would stress me out.

00:31:20.480 Because if it didn't go according to that exact plan, then I would think something's wrong, I'm going to fail.

00:31:27.260 And it's like, we are so adaptable because we are made that way by a creator that we don't need to have everything planned out.

00:31:39.720 We're not built to know all the answers.

00:31:43.520 And so I approach a race very similarly to that where it's like, I have an idea. 0.86

00:31:49.540 and obviously we bring the kitchen as lucy and i say we we literally bring the kitchen like 0.74

00:31:55.680 rice and beans and potatoes and steak and you can mix and match all of those to make a different

00:32:00.480 meal and my wife has gotten really good at just predicting what based on my mood what i'm in the

00:32:08.520 appetite for yeah because it's almost like you come home for dinner like a hundred times

00:32:12.780 four times so what do you even feed someone that who is this guy so get a new job you're putting us

00:32:20.300 out uh so that you know it there's not a uh a detailed plan but anything that i i guess the

00:32:28.900 thing that i do most is like every loop i'm eating something so even if it's a handful of chips okay

00:32:34.480 or um you know the best is obviously the steak and the the you know uh what's it called orange

00:32:41.480 slices and eggs and stuff like that like but that's not too heavy on your system in a race

00:32:45.340 not really i so i train it by uh i'll i'll run four or five miles to a diner and i'll

00:32:53.700 shove my face full of food and then i'll run home and i'm like this is race prep

00:32:57.820 um but you get used to it out there you know and that's kind of the way it is um yeah oh you you

00:33:06.960 were talking about like if if things are too planned out that it creates like once there's a

00:33:11.280 plan and then if things deviate a little bit it can create like a lot of uncertainty it's almost

00:33:15.000 like when you're learning to ride a bike and the wheels start wobbling it's like this like

00:33:18.300 oh we're trying to like be too specific um and especially in a race when things can be different

00:33:23.600 right things obstacles can come up like you're saying um but i saw that you didn't even you

00:33:29.060 barely even made it to the race on time yeah your flight was delayed yeah so that honestly that

00:33:35.700 and I'll talk about it like that is what gave me the confidence and further reinforce this belief

00:33:43.620 that the less know what you can control and understand it's not a whole lot right you can

00:33:49.840 control your energy and your attitude in a search situation and you can be prepared to handle what's

00:33:55.220 coming up but ultimately we have far less control than we think we have and so the race started on

00:34:02.060 august 14th at 2 p.m german time wow i had up and the germans are there they're freaking dialed

00:34:10.180 yeah yeah um they don't even do a leap year really i made that up but it would seem like

00:34:16.360 nine nine nine nine nine nine um so i had a presentation for a company that i had committed

00:34:26.220 to back in March. Okay. And it was in Alexandria, Minnesota, which is two hours north of where the

00:34:33.800 airport is. So that was at eight 30 in the morning, our presentation, get to the airport for a one 15

00:34:41.280 flight. And, uh, there was a layover in Chicago and brother, I am on the tarmac sitting in the

00:34:49.920 plane for an hour and a half and i'm watching my flight to frankfurt fly away i'm like i need to be

00:34:57.940 on that flight because it's a four-hour drive from frankfurt which so you just missed it i just

00:35:03.180 missed it because oh the layover flight so you flew in one flew into chicago you were sitting

00:35:07.380 on the tram like watching your flight to frankfurt go yes and uh so they rebooked me for a later

00:35:12.520 flight but i wouldn't have been able to make it to the race in time so i'm on the phone with lucy

00:35:17.840 and my friend Kellen and the race director, Kim.

00:35:20.920 And we're like, okay, how do we make this work?

00:35:23.760 And the plan shifted from Frankfurt to flying me into Amsterdam,

00:35:28.800 which is closer to first to now where the race was.

00:35:32.960 And then Kim was like, all right,

00:35:34.840 the only way that we're going to get you to this race on time 0.85

00:35:37.480 is if we schedule a private jet from Amsterdam to Mooster,

00:35:42.120 and then it's an hour drive to the race.

00:35:46.060 So I get on the flight.

00:35:47.840 flying to Amsterdam. I'm racing through security and border patrol. And then I get to the tarmac

00:35:55.040 for the private jet. And I'm explaining to the pilots who are like, who are our age. And they're

00:36:00.620 just like, so excited, telling them about what I'm doing there and the situation. I'm like, dude,

00:36:05.560 we got to go. So we're up in the air and we're down. I'm like, man, that was, that was really

00:36:12.120 fast. And we're getting off the flight. And the pilot looks at me with a little smile on his face

00:36:17.700 And he's like, don't tell anybody I said this.

00:36:20.660 But that 45-minute trip that it usually takes to get here,

00:36:24.520 we got you here in 20 minutes.

00:36:25.960 What?

00:36:26.680 And he's like, you got to promise me one thing.

00:36:29.760 You won't quit on that course.

00:36:32.020 Really?

00:36:32.400 Yeah.

00:36:33.280 And what's crazy, so Kim's dad picked me up.

00:36:35.960 We drove an hour to the race.

00:36:38.080 And I was there 15 minutes before the race started.

00:36:41.960 Was everybody already there?

00:36:42.900 Everybody was there in the starting corral.

00:36:45.200 They had already done pre-race announcements.

00:36:47.700 And there's a, there's a photo of, uh, you know, a bunch of us, everyone's in their race gear.

00:36:54.160 They got their water bottles and everything. And I'm standing in jeans with a suitcase.

00:36:59.600 So I quickly got changed. I did a quick shower, got my race stuff on. And, uh, by the time I got

00:37:05.860 into the corral, there was two minutes to go to the race. Did it almost add like a new freedom

00:37:10.480 in a way? Oh, it did. Yeah. And you, but the fact that you're able to process that as that,

00:37:14.980 that's the important thing like if if when a moment gets tough if we can like manipulate it

00:37:19.900 enough to have our perspective be uh have hope and possibility in it because yeah because a lot

00:37:26.960 of times it can go the other way you know you easily could have got on that other ship where

00:37:30.240 it's like this is i'm not gonna be you're barking orders you're being like this and this and now

00:37:34.720 it's a nightmare yeah what do i have control of that's what i kept trying to remind myself of this

00:37:39.800 situation that was happening of like, I don't control the flights.

00:37:46.120 That's hilarious. All those guys are so happy. They're stoked. They're like, this guy will be

00:37:50.840 here for one day. So I had put it in the back of my mind that all of those, a lot of those guys

00:37:56.680 are friends. So more of like the people I didn't know, I was like, everybody's going to discount

00:38:01.400 me. Everybody's going to say that I'm, I'm not going to make it that far because look at all

00:38:07.220 this i mean even though i was doing a decent job of controlling my emotions and it's still like an 1.00

00:38:15.280 emotional roller coaster you know and getting to that race it was like this is a perfect example 0.96

00:38:23.460 of how this weekend is going to go because if i can go through this experience with a smile and

00:38:30.160 see it as every obstacle is just an opportunity to try something new and experience this adventure

00:38:37.300 in a different way that is not the way I envisioned it it's not the way everybody else envisioned it

00:38:42.740 but who's to say this is a worse way to experience it yeah that's the trap I've gotten in a lot

00:38:48.760 it's getting a little better but that's the trap sometimes it's like this isn't how it's supposed

00:38:53.620 to be and you can you can almost feel your body get like tight over it that feeling just sucks

00:39:00.080 man yeah well you get after a while you just get tired of you like this has to be a better way

00:39:05.120 and there is you know that's a crazy thing there is a better way um but i think it takes practice

00:39:11.780 and noticing when you get to those moments and then being able to start to you know kind of

00:39:16.000 slowly adjust um again i'm not preaching this just kind of the like yeah you just can't hold

00:39:21.620 on so tight you know um because you get exhausted you hold on anything so tight you get exhausted

00:39:27.460 yeah you know uh what is happening to your body during a race right so like are there parts where

00:39:33.820 your body like are your muscles just like vibrating like do your feet get swollen does your

00:39:39.720 like what what kind of happens as you go through because four days of racing is that's a lot of

00:39:45.720 racing like that's the most racing you know like that's kind of the most racing it is the most

00:39:55.960 racing. Um, so thinking about it, um, I kind of think about it. I'm not a big car guy, but like

00:40:04.640 if you take a minivan across the country, you're going to go at a different pace than if you take

00:40:11.100 like a Corvette. And if you're taking a Corvette, you're going to have to let that engine cool down

00:40:16.260 because you're, you're revving it so hot. And so I'm taking the minivan across, across the country

00:40:21.940 in these races. And what I mean by that is I'm, it's like a 50, 50 jog walk. Like I'm walking a 0.94

00:40:30.620 lot of this race because I'm trying to play the long game of how can I slowly deteriorate my body

00:40:37.140 over a long period of time instead of coming out hot and, um, and having that engine burn super

00:40:43.620 quick. Right. Cause you just have to finish the miles within the hour. Yeah. Okay. So you could

00:40:47.640 do it as fast as you want, or you could do 58 minute loops and just essentially walk as much

00:40:54.860 as you possibly can. And there are times where I'll do that. Um, but the body, it's not so much

00:41:01.940 of a, like a muscles will cramp or it's more of like fatigue and you know, the feet start to hurt

00:41:11.820 and they start to swell. I mean, I still got blisters all over my feet from the race because

00:41:15.740 of just the constant friction um so it's it's not like a muscle soreness it's more of like a body

00:41:23.120 fatigue and everything's wearing down and the thing about this race is that it was on an old

00:41:27.540 military base so 65 percent of the course was this concrete and so you're like your bones were just

00:41:35.460 like oh sore and achy and and really feeling it a lot of people had hip problems and man i saw a

00:41:43.320 kt tape which is like this tape that's supposed to like help keep things in place one dude had

00:41:49.680 it all the way up his neck and down his back that was like my brother baby it's time to call it

00:41:56.060 he's getting airlifted out of his chair like they brought in a helicopter just to lift him up

00:42:01.600 oh that's crazy dude i would have that stuff you would just see my eyes dude my whole body would

00:42:08.660 be that tape, dude. I would have my

00:42:10.600 whole body taped on. You'd be a mummy 0.99

00:42:12.800 out there.

00:42:14.280 I would be just a hopeful mummy.

00:42:16.840 That's the only thing I would be.

00:42:19.540 So it's not like

00:42:20.520 your muscles start palpitating?

00:42:22.520 Or do they like... It's not like that.

00:42:24.740 No, because...

00:42:26.760 Do you get scared of your heartbeat

00:42:28.560 or something? Is there any things that start to

00:42:30.560 happen that you get scared of that your body

00:42:32.760 like, can my body?

00:42:34.080 Like my actual body?

00:42:37.260 No.

00:42:38.660 And I haven't so far reached that point. And I think it's really important for me, the runner,

00:42:45.960 to know that limit because I never want to put that responsibility on somebody else.

00:42:51.060 Oh, so then your wife's responsible, your friend, like suddenly they have to make a

00:42:54.280 decision because you went too far. Yes. Like my responsibility is to know my limit.

00:42:59.800 And sometimes that might be, at least in the past when I was just starting out with this,

00:43:05.140 I thought my limit was one thing and then I'd wake up the next day and I'd be like man I'm really

00:43:10.140 disappointed that I thought that was my limit and so it's a trial and error of trying to figure out

00:43:16.160 what that limit is and but it's not like I would never want to put that responsibility on my wife

00:43:22.400 to keep encouraging me to go out and then I end up in the hospital right so I haven't found that

00:43:30.020 limit I don't know what it is but I have a hope and a faith that like I'll know that when it comes

00:43:36.960 up I'll you know a great example is Harvey Lewis he's another runner he's another runner 50 years

00:43:43.160 old he's a legend in the sport he's a guy I highly respect I love this man he's set the world record

00:43:51.600 in this in this format and one of the things that he said after the race because he bowed out at

00:43:57.380 around 40 or 50 loops. And he had just got done running the Badwater 135, which is another extreme

00:44:04.340 race. But he said that the only thing that would keep him in the race was his ego. And I thought

00:44:11.540 that was... Of this race, you mean? Of this race. When he tapped out, his body was just banged up

00:44:17.760 from a race he did two weeks before. And he had made the statement that the only thing that would 1.00

00:44:22.940 have kept him in the race would have been his ego oh that's fascinating and to hear someone like

00:44:28.500 that who i look up to who's a legend who can make that decision and he's vegan he's doing it all on

00:44:34.720 vegetables he's doing it on vegetables and coca-cola baby dude i eat a bunch of mushrooms i can't even

00:44:39.760 dude i can't even make it out of my cousin's basement dude he's got he's so after he bought

00:44:44.660 out he gave me a bunch of his juice and i was like man maybe this is what's keeping he's got

00:44:49.260 carrot juice and beet juice. I was like, this stuff's good. But just watching him make that

00:44:54.600 decision gave me confidence of like, I don't need my ego to keep me in a race.

00:45:00.720 Got it. So even if the greats are making a decision like that and their thought process

00:45:04.180 can kind of like have a scale that understands that, then as a runner who really cares about

00:45:10.560 this, hopefully I'll have the same scale you're saying. Yeah. And exactly. And I think to like

00:45:17.020 further that is like, why am I out here? Am I here to win the race? Because if I'm here to win the

00:45:23.720 race, then it's worth dying to win this race. But if I'm not here to win the race, if being here is

00:45:32.380 something deeper and more meaningful, then the outcome of this race doesn't determine

00:45:37.240 my experience here. In fact, I respect Harvey Lewis so much more because he made that decision,

00:45:43.840 because he didn't put something external or materialistic

00:45:49.000 above what's truly important to him.

00:45:53.260 And I respect him even more for that.

00:45:55.320 Yeah, like I think a lot of like in my own life,

00:45:57.460 I've had things where it's like,

00:45:58.880 and I'm not trying to sound like a downer.

00:46:00.380 Sometimes I talk about stuff

00:46:01.680 and I think it seems like such a downer.

00:46:04.000 Like my life-

00:46:04.360 I'm not getting that impression.

00:46:05.400 You're not?

00:46:05.760 No.

00:46:06.060 Okay.

00:46:06.480 I just try to share about like things

00:46:07.860 that I think about or feel.

00:46:10.540 And sometimes those things are like,

00:46:12.100 you know you're navigating kind of the other side of like pretending everything's awesome yeah

00:46:16.660 yeah um but it's like sometimes it's like i thought yeah just that the success like that

00:46:24.280 will be enough you know that and and and and with that as the focus or like you do start to lose

00:46:31.640 track of the relationship that you're having with the experience you know um but i haven't done a

00:46:37.280 bad job of that but i have thought that at times like well if i can just prove it's like proving

00:46:41.880 myself here's what it is it's like proving myself but to who like who was i like because i don't

00:46:50.340 always know if it was to me yeah sometimes i don't know who it was to yeah but it was just like and

00:46:55.700 sometimes it could just be this societal arrow that you get put on as a child and shot through

00:47:00.520 towards this prove yourself yeah you know um but that's something that um that i that i reflect on

00:47:07.380 sometimes and then and then i think even just like now i'm just starting to see a little bit more like

00:47:11.440 yeah who do i want to prove things to as my life goes on you know um yeah it's just an interesting

00:47:18.780 conversation and some of it is just like yeah what are these conversations we have with ourselves

00:47:23.060 because they're they're the most important conversation you know and so often i don't

00:47:28.380 really have them or i don't i don't even i have them but i don't even notice what they are too

00:47:33.700 at times um you know it's you have a beautiful way of creating imagery that i so much appreciate

00:47:40.380 the arrow analogy

00:47:43.040 of I think oftentimes

00:47:44.900 we think that

00:47:47.140 so like that you've been shot

00:47:49.040 out into the trajectory it's like

00:47:51.000 I wasn't even the one pulling the string

00:47:52.780 and we forget that

00:47:54.860 when we take control of the bow

00:47:57.020 that's not the only arrow

00:47:58.940 we have in the bag

00:48:00.220 we get to pull out another one and let go

00:48:03.100 of that identity or that

00:48:05.120 journey or that path

00:48:06.260 we didn't even someone else created

00:48:08.900 that path for us

00:48:10.380 You know? And so it's like, I've tried and dude, I'm not perfect at this. I fail at this. And, and I have the thing I'm appreciative is I have people that help ground me in this of like, the success is great, but ultimately like there's only one audience that matters and that's God.

00:48:30.760 yeah and we aren't going to live up to that perfect standard but we can do our best but know

00:48:38.740 that like no matter how much success I have in running it's not going to make me more valuable

00:48:43.320 as a person no matter how much I try and do good I'm not going to be perfect and there's no way

00:48:48.780 and the thing is we don't have to be we're not called to be perfect we're called to recognize

00:48:58.960 our own imperfection and strive to be a little bit better. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's just,

00:49:04.700 it's about this. Yeah. What is this relationship that I have with myself? And also having a

00:49:08.860 relationship with a higher power, I think helps you start to have a relationship with yourself.

00:49:12.940 I think anyway, I'm just kind of navigating some of that space,

00:49:16.500 you know, trying to navigate it at a deeper level, you know,

00:49:19.560 there was a loop out there. You get, you've been kind of criticized on, I don't know if

00:49:24.860 criticized but you've been uh let's say and that's not fair to say oh that's fair maybe it is you've

00:49:29.980 been documented online as having sort of this wild loop i think it was loop 87 where it was down to

00:49:37.240 you and uh elo yes um another competitor and he's german yes he is um and you guys were the last two

00:49:45.280 left yeah in this race and there's a part where it's like the camera that they have to show this

00:49:51.000 it kind of makes you wonder if it's even real or if like israel set this up you you don't know

00:49:58.100 exactly yeah you don't know exactly what's going on but there's this infrared camera of you two

00:50:03.500 guys on a trail i want to show it right here um it's short that's the only thing we can tell you

00:50:08.700 right now staying very still and very static and there they go no

00:50:15.200 it's one of you guys stopping when the other one stops the lady goes oh no and the way she said it

00:50:25.860 the way it connected everybody's mind it's the same way when you're watching one of those

00:50:29.380 animal planet videos and the cheetah comes in and gets the other animal like the animal that

00:50:35.620 can't get out of the river and it's like she's oh no she said it just like that so i think

00:50:41.740 that that kind of got cycled into people's like energy with it but some people would say it looks

00:50:47.300 like you could be stalking or like you're kind of like monitoring your prey or you're like

00:50:51.860 you're pantomiming right and um and the yeah what was going on there like what's going on out on the

00:50:58.620 course and and what do and what psychology are people using out on the course out there

00:51:03.700 if there's any yeah um when it comes down to just a couple competitors yeah i think in the backyard

00:51:10.160 it is not simply a physical adventure or competition it's physical it's mental it's

00:51:18.440 emotional it's spiritual and the people that do the best in the sport are able to handle all four

00:51:26.500 of those things and when it gets down to you know all throughout the day everybody is playing a mind

00:51:33.780 game whether they know it or not they're trying to look stronger than they are you know they're

00:51:38.640 coming out and they're doing faster loops when maybe you know it's just a way to posture how

00:51:43.600 strong they're doing hiding limps hiding limps secretly vaping funny enough i did a race in

00:51:51.260 june and a guy was vaping i was like brother how are you doing this he's like i'll tell you how

00:51:57.040 i'm doing this dude on cherry lime ice dude that's how i'm doing it and we'd like to sponsor

00:52:02.980 that guy yeah see a thick mod too it was like not like a jewel or something it was like puffing

00:52:08.860 clouds oh like one of those like the front of a train like one of those big dogs jeepers it was

00:52:13.920 crazy that dude's pushing coal through his lungs bro oh like i don't want to mess with that guy

00:52:20.340 that's this guy that's one of those west virginia backyard runners bro hey look at that dude or 1.00

00:52:27.460 woman. Um, but, uh, so loop loop 87, it was, uh, an opportunity to be competitive in a way that

00:52:37.480 the sport has always had, but maybe hasn't been televised in that way before. Um, and I think

00:52:46.240 the thing I go back to is like, you know, you don't tell Dennis Rodman how to play basketball.

00:52:51.280 Yeah. You prepare to play Dennis Rodman. And I, from all of the sports that I've ever played, I've always been a guy who likes to use my energy as a way to celebrate the activity that I'm doing and use competitive advantages here and there to gain an advantage.

00:53:13.320 and that's really all it was it was uh you know i saw him sprint out of the gate sort of trying to

00:53:20.320 show me how strong he was and uh i said i'm right here with you and were you guys talking does he

00:53:27.180 speak english he speaks a little bit of english okay but there was obviously even if there's not

00:53:31.680 verbal communication there's like um communication of ambiance or peacocking in a way there's like

00:53:37.500 that kind of energy right yeah there was uh i mean he was there i spoke no words to him out

00:53:42.800 there on that loop um in fact I think him and I had one conversation all day and that was when

00:53:49.920 there were four or five people left and I was like hey this is awesome that we're still here

00:53:53.980 we just made it three days of running um but out on that loop yeah there were no words exchanged

00:54:00.660 from me on my end he did sort of say like what the what the heck are you doing and uh and his

00:54:07.100 I think way of trying to show his strength was uh speeding up like he's a really fast runner

00:54:15.800 and uh I think he tried to break me off in that moment and that was his form of communication to

00:54:21.620 me that okay if we're playing this game you're gonna have to keep up with me and I played that

00:54:26.540 game back with him and so your energy was just what like I'm right here still yeah I'm right here

00:54:31.200 I, I can run fast loops too.

00:54:35.880 Dude, it reminds me like, uh, I'm friends with this UFC fighter, Dustin Poirier.

00:54:40.260 He's, um, and one thing that I always didn't like, one thing I like that he does is when

00:54:47.200 he's, even if he's over on his side during the, like, uh, on the breaks in between the

00:54:51.820 rounds, even if he rests with his hands on his knees, he always is looking over at his

00:54:56.340 opponent.

00:54:57.060 And I think about that every time, like I'm in the gym, whatever I'm doing, like if I

00:55:00.420 start to break down like rest a little bit like just to pick my own stature back up sure just to

00:55:05.260 remind myself just a physical reminder of like i'm gonna keep going right um he always does that

00:55:11.560 yeah i think that's that seems normal to me that people do that kind of stuff you know i mean have

00:55:16.040 you seen it a lot out there and with other racers like when you guys get down to just two guys

00:55:19.620 yeah there's there's all stuff like harvey and i we've raced against each other three times now

00:55:24.960 this year. And, uh, I was at a race here in Franklin at the end of June called the Mid-State

00:55:30.600 Mile. It's a one mile loop every 20 minutes until one person's left. Let me say it again. It's a

00:55:37.660 one mile loop every 20 minutes, every 20 minutes until one person's left. Yeah. So it's still that

00:55:42.560 format, but like not four miles every hour, one mile every 20 minutes. You must get a ton of

00:55:47.960 entrance in that. Into that one. Well, the kicker with this one is it's in Franklin and there's

00:55:53.480 340 feet of elevation per loop so you're climbing this massive hill and then you're descending down

00:55:59.200 and then you're climbing another massive hill and you're descending down so it's super challenging

00:56:03.540 and that's the one where i saw the dude puffing clouds that's what was blowing my mind because it

00:56:08.220 wasn't like a a flat course where it's a friendly jog it was like you're huffing and puffing up this

00:56:13.420 hill i'm like how are you doing this dude it's just somebody from goodletsville dude that's all

00:56:19.020 it is bro it's chill but harvey would do things where he would sprint out okay he would sprint

00:56:24.520 out of the gate and uh that was his way of saying i could be here all day got it you know and so

00:56:30.440 there's all this little stuff that's going on crews are trying to gather information from people

00:56:35.340 you know all this little stuff every movement and posture that you have out there is you

00:56:43.060 knowingly or unknowingly sending a signal to yourself and to other people how you're doing

00:56:50.260 oh that's the world too and especially if you are like i'll notice if i do fasting dude on the third

00:56:57.700 day dude i can tell you if you're gonna have grandchildren or not right you just know what's

00:57:03.400 like every little thing means something like yeah like communication is so much easier because it's

00:57:09.920 uh, it doesn't feel sedated by kind of food and stuff like that. Does it feel like a level like

00:57:15.520 that when you get to like, when you're running at, like after you've been running for so long,

00:57:19.700 does everything feel like very acute and real, or does it feel just bizarre?

00:57:26.540 Exactly how you feel on day three is how it feels on day three and four for me out on the course.

00:57:31.460 I don't understand, um, the last two loops of the course. And after the race,

00:57:37.400 the communication that I was having with my team. And then, you know, I was talking to everybody

00:57:44.940 about my race afterwards and gave this speech. None of that was me. I have no idea where it 0.81

00:57:51.920 came from. I say it was the Holy Spirit because I could not think straight out there, but this was,

00:57:57.460 there was this general peace that I had not experienced really in any place in my life.

00:58:03.220 and all i could it wasn't like i was thinking i was just experiencing and living in that moment

00:58:11.320 without any expectation or pressure or desire to leave that spot i just wanted to be right there

00:58:19.400 it was like i could feel the experience and feel the importance of it but also step outside i've

00:58:26.140 heard uh comedians talk about this i'm maybe you've experienced this i'm sure you have but like

00:58:30.980 where you're on stage and you're almost seeing yourself have the experience

00:58:37.160 and you're, it's not affecting you from like a negative,

00:58:42.320 like it's not getting into your subconscious.

00:58:44.600 Like you're just, you're, you're experiencing it

00:58:47.500 and you're aware of the experience and how beautiful it is.

00:58:50.800 But you're still in it.

00:58:51.360 And you're still way in it.

00:58:53.120 Yeah.

00:58:53.560 And it's like, oh, like.

00:58:55.540 That's pretty cool.

00:58:56.200 It's awesome.

00:58:57.560 That's a twofer.

00:58:58.100 Yeah, yeah.

00:58:59.060 Yeah, dude.

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01:01:06.900 um we hear a lot about hallucinations while running actually um have you experienced

01:01:13.700 some of that i have yes you have yeah anything good um i saw teddy bears hanging from a tree

01:01:23.220 one time i saw some native americans i saw um there's a race where there was a road

01:01:32.620 loop and there was an entire middle school of kids sitting cross-legged cheering me on putting

01:01:41.640 their hand out for a high five no way it was wild there was a are you a harry potter guy

01:01:48.180 enough yeah so you know those big spiders yes there was one race where it was through a tunnel

01:01:54.660 of trees and all of the trees started to turn into these massive spiders yeah it was nuts

01:02:01.740 god it was you know yeah that exactly oh yeah that's them snoop dogs right there and then

01:02:08.860 dude that's that tim burton that's beautiful wow but then uh there was like uh out on in germany

01:02:19.020 it wasn't like a it wasn't like a physical depiction of anything like that it just felt like

01:02:23.820 i had been which is weird to say because i was on that course for days on end but it like felt like

01:02:29.540 I had been on that course before. Like this nostalgia feeling was not like something in

01:02:37.240 passing. It was like this constant state of nostalgia of like, I've been here before.

01:02:42.300 I've seen this course before and I couldn't explain it.

01:02:47.220 Dude, I think everybody else could explain that you just, you just run around it 300 times.

01:02:54.120 Yeah, that's true.

01:02:56.640 Yeah, I think it's understandable.

01:02:59.460 But yeah, I mean, that's, yeah.

01:03:02.160 Can you bring up different hallucinative experiences that happened when people was jogging?

01:03:08.260 Of the strange and intriguing world of running hallucinations.

01:03:11.540 I just want to get a few of these out.

01:03:14.560 Emily Foy, Ultra Trail du Mont Blanc.

01:03:19.240 It says, I was filling up my water bottle from a sheep's trough.

01:03:22.760 Red flag.

01:03:24.120 i think that costs the hallucinations i mean that's a good call dude and first of all if i'm

01:03:31.860 drinking water with sheep i'm already not doing good uh i was filling up my water bottle from a

01:03:39.340 sheep's trough on the mountain at mile 70 i recalled when i saw tiny severed heads at the

01:03:44.100 bottom i looked around at my fellow runners expecting a similar reaction and panic but

01:03:48.820 they were all utterly calm filling bottles and chatting oh that would have pissed me off the

01:03:52.820 most i'm staring at baby heads and a trough and you're over there just giggling yeah just talking

01:03:59.220 about how the vikings are doing get out of town try as i might i couldn't make the heads turn

01:04:03.840 into stones which my rational mind knew they must be i couldn't stomach drinking turned around

01:04:09.080 apologized to a golden retriever aka a pile of dried grass and i tripped over and continued up 0.98

01:04:15.540 the mountain it was broad daylight that's that free shit i'm trying to get on this is another 0.96

01:04:21.740 So in Jen Scotney, North Traverse Race, I was 120 miles into a 190-mile race and hadn't slept. 0.96

01:04:30.240 Going into the second night, I started hallucinating really badly when it got dark.

01:04:34.040 My head torch was bouncing light onto the limestone walls where cats and human faces were appearing.

01:04:39.600 The night was so clear, the stars were twinkling all around, but I was hallucinating that they were around my shoulders.

01:04:46.140 On my own at 2 a.m., everyone else tucked up in bed, and here I was in the Yorkshire Dales

01:04:50.360 shouting at the stars to get back into the sky.

01:04:52.820 That's mad.

01:04:54.700 Let me see one more here.

01:04:56.560 This is John Hunt.

01:04:57.720 I was going into the second night, so it was pretty wasted by then, and I was on a country

01:05:01.880 road.

01:05:02.860 This is in Thames.

01:05:04.620 I was on a country road with trees either side.

01:05:07.380 I was about 150 miles in and remember thinking the trees looked really strange with weird

01:05:12.080 bits hanging down.

01:05:14.020 So I stopped and had a closer look to my amazement.

01:05:17.600 It looked like someone else had strung up thousands of rotisserie chickens as far as the eye could see.

01:05:22.860 I was so confused by it that I took a closer look and went to grab one.

01:05:27.220 Alas, it was just a leaf, huh?

01:05:29.520 Dude, one time I was with my ex-girlfriend and we went bike riding.

01:05:33.260 This was in Germany.

01:05:34.760 And dude, we went in this park and some dude, he was like a, I guess like a wiener guy or whatever. 0.93

01:05:40.720 he was standing in the park and like he had he had no clothes on right and he was like this 0.67

01:05:46.000 tall white guy he was like and he was like kind of spinning his wiener at us dude and dude this

01:05:52.440 is the worst part her freaking bike broke down right there and i'm like oh and i thought she 0.94

01:05:58.040 was kind of doing it on purpose just to like be around this guy like not around this guy's wiener

01:06:01.500 but like to see it more or whatever and then the bike was like really broke dude and i'm like trying

01:06:05.700 to like so then we had to like walk this bike but it the back tire wouldn't move so we had to like

01:06:09.820 drag walk this bike past some dude like like a legitimately spinning his wiener like at a decent

01:06:16.660 gate like creating vortex around that thing like i would say this a butterfly couldn't land on it

01:06:25.260 right a hummingbird couldn't even land on it probably so that's some but anyway i don't know

01:06:32.040 why i told you that it's just so that's why i don't run uh but uh anyway i just wanted to kind

01:06:37.680 to get that out there um are there people that who who does this sport mark like is it business

01:06:47.140 guys that just are looking or become like um end up making a ton of money and they're looking for

01:06:53.080 something new to do right is it uh like is it a certain body type like um who are the are there

01:07:00.400 like stereotypes you know and not to say there's anything wrong with that we're all somewhat of a

01:07:05.860 stereotype are there stereotypes that are out there kind of do you see yes and no um there's

01:07:13.160 a few different stereotypes i guess like the business person who's that go-getter that

01:07:17.880 they have to do everything a million miles an hour that's that's also that's a person that's

01:07:24.520 out there is like i'm gonna i'm an achiever i'm gonna go achieve this other thing in this world

01:07:29.300 called running and ultra running there's also people that you know they struggled it's a

01:07:35.820 big place of recovery uh people that have struggled with addiction alcohol and they have

01:07:43.300 that addictive personality and running has been the cure for them to not have that outlet you know

01:07:51.980 running does a great job of spiritually lifting you from maybe the burdens of everyday life

01:07:58.260 and so i think a lot of people find refuge in that and you know and there's people people like

01:08:05.700 me who who really have this desire to see what they're capable of and I think you know Ryan

01:08:12.240 the driver he he asked a really great question yesterday and it was on this same line of

01:08:20.240 thinking of do you think anybody is capable of what you did out there I think the short answer

01:08:27.080 is it's it's it depends because there's a guy mike egan who is in a wheelchair he's lost both

01:08:36.260 of his legs uh because he was in service uh for the united states and he did the bpn go one more

01:08:44.700 which i was doing in april and he did this last soul race in germany and he's in a wheelchair

01:08:49.940 he's in a wheelchair the whole time and shout out mike if you would have told me before i ever met

01:08:55.440 mike what do i think he's capable of be based on my own imperfections i would have said i don't

01:09:03.280 how can he go more than a few loops and then i witnessed him persevere and overcome every

01:09:09.520 obstacle on that course until rain totally destroyed it in the one in april and he was

01:09:14.280 dragging his wheelchair just the heart of a lion and he comes out in in this race he sets a pr i

01:09:22.340 think he went 31 or 32 hours at this course. No way. Let's go, Mike. And so I see a man

01:09:29.700 who does not allow his circumstance or the things that have happened to him limit his belief about

01:09:36.600 who he can become. Amen. And so I think anybody who has that belief about who they are, like I

01:09:42.540 look up to Mike so much because he has shown me what is possible when you face extreme obstacle.

01:09:49.660 and so I think anybody who has that belief about themselves then they can as Mike said find peace

01:09:57.140 in the storm because they're willing to put themselves out there no matter what and so I

01:10:02.240 think anybody who has that ability to look at life as this is not happening to me this is happening

01:10:08.620 for me I'm going to figure it out and Mike always says forward onward onward we go through the

01:10:14.600 obstacle. And that's who I think is like, that's who it attracts at the end of the day is people

01:10:20.160 who want to find out who they are. Amen, dude. Wow. That's fascinating. And so even like if the

01:10:25.780 course is uneven and stuff, he still manages it. Yeah. He finds a way. God. And what's funny about

01:10:31.060 this too is Harvey. Gosh, Harvey's a great guy. I could talk about him all day, but in the midst of

01:10:36.940 what happened, uh, the trail, so 40% of it was trail and there were rocks all over it. And Mike

01:10:44.360 was having a hard time going from the concrete to the rocky trail so over the course of you know

01:10:51.580 40 hours harvey got a group of us together and would take one rock off the course every loop

01:10:59.180 so harvey picked up like 250 rocks over the course of his just trying to make it more fair

01:11:04.940 make it easier for mike right and make it more fair really yeah yeah because it's kind of like

01:11:10.800 dude yeah have him like give him at least every now and then give him a little side alley

01:11:15.900 you know what i'm saying the guy's earned it give him a hov line gosh i can't imagine how

01:11:22.280 difficult that is wow that's fascinating man but like that guy is the man right thank you for

01:11:28.380 sharing about him yeah can you pull that article up again trevin please a texas-based veteran now

01:11:32.900 holds a guinness world record for most miles covered in a wheelchair in 24 hours on november

01:11:38.200 10th 2025 mike egan a bilateral amputee and wheelchair user and what does bilateral mean it

01:11:45.640 means i don't know by i don't know both legs yeah i said i don't know but covered 152.37 miles over

01:11:55.380 21 hours wow completing 720 rotations around the course at morgan's wonderland sports complex in

01:12:01.600 san antonio with his family there to support let's go guys oh he has two children too that's awesome

01:12:07.460 yeah he's a former marine man thank you for your service dude wow mike egan oh look at him there

01:12:13.780 with that stash rocking bro mikey got that word curtain on him let's do it dude bro thank you

01:12:22.100 bro thanks for sharing about him yeah um i want to get into like what are some of the different

01:12:27.560 types of courses that they have in backyard running like what are some of the tougher ones

01:12:31.200 or more unique ones just so that uh listeners can understand like what backyard ultras are like

01:12:36.760 yeah yeah the backyard ultra space is still growing um one of the more tougher courses

01:12:44.180 is the original one that happens in bell buckle right it's bell buckle bell buckle here in

01:12:50.140 tennessee yeah yeah so it's called big's backyard the originator laz put it on i think in his

01:12:56.500 backyard and it takes place every year it's i think 400 feet of elevation per loop and so there's

01:13:04.440 courses that, you know, I know of one that I do in Wausau, Wisconsin, that's 500 or 610 feet of

01:13:13.740 elevation per loop. So elevation adds a ton of... Oh, it makes it so, so much more challenging.

01:13:19.120 So much more challenging. So you could have like a flat course like BPN or this course in Germany

01:13:25.100 where it's going to be demanding for different things. Like a flat course, you're not changing

01:13:30.640 your running motion very much so it's just staying in one place for a long period of time and that

01:13:36.180 causes friction there but then there's higher elevation courses where the race might not go as

01:13:42.480 long but you're climbing you know essentially mount everest in 24 hours and your quads are

01:13:50.800 banged up your hamstrings are banged up your muscles are a lot more banged up and the more

01:13:56.620 this sport grows, the more we're going to see challenges like, Hey man, come to Minnesota in

01:14:02.340 January. Let's see what a course looks like going across a frozen Lake, you know, or go to Arizona

01:14:09.140 in, you know, June or July, which might be a little bit dangerous, but you'll, I think what

01:14:14.820 we'll start to see more of is like what you see in motocross or some of these other sports where

01:14:21.580 the temperature and environment you're in will dictate the course environment, which will

01:14:27.060 determine what strengths and weaknesses an athlete truly has. Wow. So it's going to start to see more

01:14:33.120 strengths and weaknesses, a disparity of strengths and weaknesses because more variables will be

01:14:40.740 introduced. Ooh, that's going to be interesting. So we're still on the cusp of what that could be,

01:14:46.180 but a lot of the courses generally are probably within 100 to 300 feet of elevation per loop.

01:14:52.600 Got it. And what are some of the severe temperatures that you've already been in?

01:14:56.000 Have you been in any snow ones or whatever?

01:14:57.940 Not in the backyard. I did a race in January called the Arrowhead 135.

01:15:02.460 And that's a historic Minnesota race.

01:15:05.680 Takes place in International Falls, Minnesota, which is right on the border of Canada.

01:15:09.720 Is that by Lake Itasca at all?

01:15:11.580 It's near there. Near there.

01:15:14.620 Because the Mississippi River starts right up there.

01:15:16.560 You can jump right across it.

01:15:18.040 Yeah, you could. 1.00

01:15:19.100 Dude, some lady took me there one time. 1.00

01:15:21.040 She was awesome. 1.00

01:15:21.960 I don't know if she listens sometimes.

01:15:25.280 And I won't say her name, but she took me there one time

01:15:28.100 and let me jump over the river.

01:15:30.040 Oh, really?

01:15:30.820 Which was pretty cool, yeah.

01:15:32.000 Because I've eaten things out of that river.

01:15:34.300 Out of the Mississippi River?

01:15:35.820 Yeah.

01:15:38.060 Hopefully more upstream.

01:15:39.880 Yeah.

01:15:40.520 I mean, I've had some.

01:15:42.000 Downstream it gets a little bit.

01:15:43.820 I mean, look, I put my tongue downstream a few times, brother.

01:15:47.180 It doesn't end well, you know?

01:15:48.540 So one day at a time.

01:15:52.020 Oh, that's you right there.

01:15:53.660 Yeah.

01:15:54.340 Doing ice bearding.

01:15:55.520 So it's a race.

01:15:56.620 You run 135 miles.

01:15:58.160 You got to carry a bunch of supplies on you.

01:16:00.620 Okay.

01:16:01.220 On a sled.

01:16:02.640 And the temperature this year was minus 30 degrees at the start line Fahrenheit.

01:16:09.580 And how many miles is that?

01:16:10.560 That's 135.

01:16:12.100 So that took 30.

01:16:13.300 oh so that has a finish line or the that has a finish line so i i i haven't done any extreme

01:16:18.540 weather in the backyard got it but i have experience doing extreme weather at least

01:16:22.680 in this capacity so wait that was negative 30 degrees that what that what you just saw was from

01:16:27.940 last year's race which was 15 to 20 degrees this year's race was minus 30 degrees so i've done it

01:16:34.200 twice and how much does that affect things that weather difference do you even notice it after

01:16:38.500 the beginning or what is that like um or is it more of just a visual effect well the the warmer

01:16:43.960 race i think is more difficult because the snow becomes like sand so it's hard to your feet kind

01:16:49.380 of move around and it's nice because you're not as concerned about frostbite but when it's super

01:16:55.040 cold it's like concrete running on and like a softer concrete but it feels much better to run

01:17:00.520 on but man my hands were getting cold i was shoving them in my pants all race long just trying

01:17:06.520 to keep them warm and it really becomes a how can I moderate the temperature of my body so that I'm

01:17:12.160 not dying out here type of thing. And does it ever get so you ever run so much it just feels like

01:17:18.220 homoerotic or anything out there like does things start to happen where you're like I just ran like

01:17:22.820 out of my own sexuality or something like you know I'm saying how weird does things get like that

01:17:26.400 like mentally? Yeah it does it never turns sexual in my mind but that's something I can think about

01:17:32.520 on my next one and get back to you if you're really interested about it don't get back to me

01:17:37.740 i'm just wondering like if you're out there i don't see guys shaking their wiener like you do

01:17:42.500 when you run dude bro it was one guy and i think my girlfriend even set it up or whatever

01:17:48.360 anyway i don't even know what we're talking about yeah i just didn't know because sometimes at

01:17:52.160 certain altitudes is something people are more likely to be gay different things can happen i

01:17:55.860 didn't know if um people can run so much that you could like more for whatever uh oh i want to get

01:18:04.060 a little bit of your backstory um so you you were all state high school athlete and you played

01:18:10.540 college football yep when did running start for you yeah yeah so i played collegiate football and

01:18:16.700 lacrosse um and running started for me the spring of my senior year when it was club lacrosse we

01:18:25.620 actually played in nashville we played three games let's go and we lost two out of the three games

01:18:32.020 one of them was to good old kennesaw state yeah from georgia yeah if that's where kennesaw state's

01:18:39.520 from i don't know where it's from but hey we'll go with it kennesaw state georgia and uh we never

01:18:45.080 lost to kennesaw state in our program's history so it was a tough one and it was the first game

01:18:50.540 of the weekend but we're you know bussing back it's a 24-hour bus ride back and I'm sitting in 0.98

01:18:57.020 the back of the bus like we suck I suck we're not going anywhere throwing a pity party and my brother 0.99

01:19:04.700 sent me the Joe Rogan David Goggins podcast and I'm just listening to this man defecate down the 0.99

01:19:10.940 back of his leg pissing blood and he's getting up and he's running another 30 miles to complete a

01:19:16.140 hundred mile run around a track and it was the first time it had planted a seed in my mind about

01:19:23.240 some person who was not allowing their situation to have them throw a pity party like we lost the

01:19:33.940 first two games of the year we still had a whole season ahead of us and I'm listening to this man

01:19:38.920 break himself and not make an excuse about it so the first thing I did when we got back at

01:19:44.540 three in the morning was I went out for a run and that sort of just continued over the spring

01:19:50.080 and when I was no longer an athlete when I graduated school you know truthfully playing

01:19:56.740 football and lacrosse was a great escape for me to take out the anger that I had you know I

01:20:02.320 struggled a little bit with alcohol in college of just using it as a coping mechanism for not

01:20:07.280 being able to sift through my emotional state. Yeah. And it would be this, the cycle that I was

01:20:14.360 living in was, um, get drunk on a Saturday night, wake up with regret and shame, walk around with

01:20:23.420 that regret and shame, not want to deal with that, bottle it up, come to Saturday game day and flick

01:20:29.740 that pain on somebody else so that I didn't have to feel it anymore. And then celebrate that by

01:20:35.120 more drinking and that was just the loop that i was living in yeah eventually alcohol and the

01:20:43.040 decisions i was making came to a point i was like i either need to make a change or i need to like

01:20:48.260 it was just a point where i was like dude i need to figure out my life and then after school and i

01:20:56.200 had no other thing to keep me occupied outside of work and life running was a thing that was there

01:21:03.220 for me. And I just noticed early on that the more I would run, the more I would come back from a run

01:21:09.720 and I would feel that heaviness in my chest feel almost like gone. Like the weight was off my

01:21:16.540 shoulders. I wasn't carrying around that anger. And so early on for me, running was this tool for

01:21:22.620 me to kind of work through a lot of the emotional stuff that I was going through because there was

01:21:28.360 this this practical imagery that was going on is like the more I ran and the more I moved forward

01:21:38.600 while I was thinking about the issues and the problems in my life it was like I was moving

01:21:44.600 forward mentally through them and also physically through them because I was thinking about them as

01:21:50.920 I was moving on my run and so it it allowed me to kind of work through things and leave behind

01:21:57.740 stuff that I wasn't as proud of and move forward through things that I wanted to become ideas and

01:22:04.340 conversations and just a life I wanted to live coming out of college. Yeah. When you get to the

01:22:09.600 end of a run, the thoughts and feelings that you have are good. So it's almost like you like have

01:22:16.300 you've just sifted through and you're holding things that are good. Like you have, you're

01:22:20.920 excited. You call somebody like I'll whistle at somebody's cat or whatever. Like you'll do all

01:22:25.860 kinds of shit after a run you're fucking rocking yeah yeah i don't know you're left with like you 1.00

01:22:30.920 you've kind of run into the best parts of you yeah um okay sorry go on no that's uh so that 1.00

01:22:38.840 was it that's it like that's that was the start of it it's just like so that's how it started yeah

01:22:42.440 and then and then you know i signed up for a marathon and i think the competitor in me

01:22:46.260 uh was like all right i did a marathon can i do 30 miles can i do 50 miles and uh started doing

01:22:54.240 some charity runs to raise money and awareness for a non-profit uh for love like laurie legacy

01:23:01.660 yeah i saw it was one of your friends mothers that passed away yeah she passed away from

01:23:04.820 pancreatic cancer in 2020 what's her laurie laurie webber laurie webber yeah what was the guy's name

01:23:10.820 blake blake webber yeah and that man that i think that was a real turning point for me

01:23:16.840 and how I related to running and how I could basically have a relationship

01:23:24.300 with this sport that was outside of outcomes and rewards

01:23:28.080 because that's all I focused on in college.

01:23:30.960 The goal is to win a national championship.

01:23:33.880 If we didn't win a national championship, I was not worthy.

01:23:37.800 We never won a national championship.

01:23:39.780 So does that mean I'm going the rest of my life thinking that I'm not worthy

01:23:43.080 of anything because I didn't get an outcome?

01:23:44.740 and through these love like Lori runs it was beautiful to be able to I don't know what it's

01:23:54.320 like to lose my mom I'll never know what that feels like at least up until now right and at

01:23:59.940 least not in the way that Blake lost his mom and there's a lot of pain and a lot of hurt

01:24:05.160 and a lot of working through emotional stuff

01:24:10.060 where through these runs,

01:24:12.600 we would get to walk and run side by side

01:24:16.100 and I would experience this physical pain

01:24:18.920 that would force me to go internal

01:24:21.320 and kind of deal with it that way.

01:24:24.060 And at the same time, walk alongside a brother

01:24:27.060 who was also going through a different type of pain

01:24:29.360 and it was almost a point where we can now connect

01:24:32.240 on how to talk and move through this pain together,

01:24:35.560 even though they're different things.

01:24:37.220 Because pain, pain is pain, right?

01:24:40.480 If you're hurt, that's all you're experiencing.

01:24:43.920 That's all like, but we are connected by pain

01:24:47.420 in a way where we can start to,

01:24:50.400 like if I'm hurting,

01:24:51.360 I'm better able to understand if you're hurting.

01:24:53.300 If I've never experienced pain or hurt,

01:24:55.300 I don't know how to relate to you.

01:24:57.460 But when we can experience it together

01:24:59.560 and be open and vulnerable about what we're going through

01:25:03.380 and what we're struggling with,

01:25:05.180 it was a phenomenal opportunity to see pain as not something to avoid,

01:25:10.700 but to really like, all right, let's pull up our sleeves

01:25:13.340 and like let's figure out what this means.

01:25:16.480 Amen, dude.

01:25:17.860 Yeah, man, I'll go on a walk with a friend or something like that,

01:25:21.200 and it's like that's when we get the most, you know,

01:25:23.440 it's like when you're just something in action.

01:25:26.080 And they say our body like holds so much of our pain,

01:25:28.720 And so, of course, if you're taking some action that is starting to call – that will, like, in turn, like, make your body have to process some pain, then it makes sense that it could also process some of the pain that's actual emotional pain that's being held in.

01:25:46.760 Yeah.

01:25:47.240 You know?

01:25:47.880 I never really – I don't know if there's science behind that, but I'm sure that there is.

01:25:52.700 But anyway, also, I don't know exactly what I'm talking about, but I never have either.

01:25:55.880 um i've heard you talk about using journaling as like a um i don't want to say modality i don't

01:26:04.240 know what that word means but i think i do but as like a i guess almost is like a written like a

01:26:11.480 confidant on your journey like i've just heard you talk a lot about journaling and how you use it and

01:26:15.980 how you've used it on your journey of like kind of self-discovery sure can you kind of take me

01:26:20.280 through some of that, like what that experience has been like? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so when I was

01:26:25.760 going through, I talked about that moment in college where I had to reevaluate and actually

01:26:30.660 take a look at, maybe it's not everyone else. Maybe it's not every situation. It's me and my

01:26:36.580 actions. I was nudged by our athletic trainer to go see a sports psychiatrist that would come to

01:26:43.340 campus on thursdays and her practice for me was to get a journal and start writing in it and

01:26:50.380 what i noticed that i've been able to go back and read and see the process of my thoughts over a

01:26:58.160 period of time is how hard i was on myself how the voice for me back in the day was like 1.00

01:27:07.020 you idiot you effing failure how could you you said you weren't going to do this thing and you 0.99

01:27:13.300 did it again and like i would i was so adamant about like okay i'm not gonna you know college 1.00

01:27:20.440 kid create the the biggest sacrifice i made in college was uh my junior year for new year's eve

01:27:26.740 i said i wasn't gonna drink hard alcohol but i was gonna drink beer man like because yeah like

01:27:32.220 i'll make a sacrifice but not one that's enough where it's truly a sacrifice got it and you know

01:27:38.380 maybe uh maybe three months of like doing a good job on that i'd have some hard alcohol and i would

01:27:45.200 just beat myself up over it like i can't believe you did this again blah blah blah and i guess the

01:27:51.700 more i wrote the more i was able to understand what voice was playing in my head and recognize

01:27:59.540 that, dude, maybe this isn't even my, like, why would I talk to myself this way? I wouldn't talk

01:28:06.280 to you this way. I wouldn't talk to a friend this way. And so to see it all laid out and then to

01:28:13.500 understand one, I'm not going to be perfect. Perfection is not something I can achieve. So

01:28:18.440 I have to stop trying to chase that. It's not possible. And if I'm ever going to grow as a

01:28:24.800 person i have to release myself of this pressure of the need to be perfect or even the thought that

01:28:31.000 i can be wow not possible yeah dude and when i hold myself to that i'm holding other people to

01:28:36.240 that yeah and it keeps me away from people it keeps me away from like it keeps me away from so

01:28:41.380 many things you know because you're always in this place of like there's some of like uh this isn't

01:28:47.420 enough or something could be neat something i know something needs to be different yeah

01:28:51.900 Yeah. Well, and I think about the relationship with my life, the times we've grown the most

01:28:58.620 is when we've worked through conflict, the imperfections. And it's like, the imperfections

01:29:04.140 are beautiful. They allow us to see ourselves in a new way. And when we can allow somebody

01:29:08.680 into that experience, we can help each other find the best parts of who we are through our

01:29:14.220 imperfections. And so journaling has been a really phenomenal practice for me to one,

01:29:20.620 allow the thoughts whether they're positive or negative to get down on something so they're not

01:29:26.140 stuck in my head rattling around controlling like I want to be present as much as I possibly can

01:29:33.200 yeah and if I got all these thoughts in my head even if they're like really cool ideas

01:29:37.300 and they'll they're stuck in there and I want to get them out so I can just leave them there

01:29:42.200 and I can come back to them at a later time so journaling has just helped me navigate a lot of

01:29:48.180 the emotional stuff that's going on and also put together plans of, of who I want to become.

01:29:54.860 Like, okay, if I know this isn't the voice I want, what type of voice do I want to have

01:29:58.780 internally? Who do I want to let into my life that, uh, is, is going to hold me accountable,

01:30:05.060 but also, uh, help encourage me and build me up. And how can I be that way for other people?

01:30:11.080 Like, who have I been neglecting? All these, like just life stuff. There's, you know, just

01:30:16.100 these are good questions man yeah dude i thought i was like i'm working with my sponsor right now

01:30:22.240 and i have to write like a fears list like things that i'm afraid of dude and it's crazy dude

01:30:26.440 like the things that i'm really afraid of you know um you don't have to talk about them

01:30:32.280 specifically but i would never ask you to do that but do you are you is there a fear that you have

01:30:38.860 of actually pointing to the the deep fears that you have like I say they're uh like I can get that

01:30:48.380 way myself that's why I ask is like almost afraid to know the thing you're most afraid of because

01:30:54.460 then it's there oh wow does that make sense like would I even be brave enough to write the thing

01:31:01.680 I'm most afraid even if it's just for you right because then it's still yeah right then you can't

01:31:08.300 avoid it anymore that's where i get to dang what are your thoughts on that that's freaking wild

01:31:15.940 like if there's a tiger behind these like dangerous kittens i've written down dude like

01:31:19.920 if there's a mama cat in the bag bro bro if there is i'm not gonna make it bro i wrote down like

01:31:27.020 a lot of mine are like um i'm trying to think some of them are like kind of topical type things like

01:31:33.720 i'm afraid i'm ugly i'm afraid i don't like like um i'll never uh have like the physique that i

01:31:40.840 want or i'm afraid um you know uh i'm afraid i'm not gonna be able to like uh figure out my own

01:31:49.760 stuff to be able to be like successful in a marriage you know um and some of them aren't

01:31:56.400 as strong as they used to be but some of like i mean i probably have like 20 more i think i wrote

01:32:02.020 down like maybe 25 things that I'm really

01:32:04.020 afraid of let me think of what's

01:32:06.060 a real real one

01:32:07.040 you know what I've always been afraid of man I've always been afraid

01:32:14.080 of that I'm wasting everybody's time

01:32:15.820 and I don't even know where that comes from

01:32:19.860 but it makes everything else tough

01:32:22.180 because it makes everything else

01:32:24.160 feel like it has to happen fast

01:32:25.740 I've always been afraid of that

01:32:28.140 and I don't even know if it's a

01:32:29.580 I write it as a fear

01:32:31.140 and maybe it shouldn't have been written down as a fear but it was just like a thing but it's like

01:32:35.340 something that like yeah when I put it together I'm always afraid that I've been wasting somebody's

01:32:40.240 time my whole life I felt like there's this to-do like I got given a to-do list at like six days

01:32:46.100 old and there's like 200 million things on it and I'm you know I'm saying yeah like it's an

01:32:51.960 invisible like like oh you're late like my whole life that's been like yeah somebody like this in

01:32:59.400 the distance and it's like what but you know I don't know so that's probably a bit like

01:33:05.500 yeah or maybe I'm afraid I'm wasting their attention maybe that's part of it too

01:33:11.400 yeah like if you're going to give me your attention I don't want to waste it

01:33:15.540 so that puts like a lot of like I think probably especially with dating when I was

01:33:22.680 when I was like when I was in high school college like that put a ton of like in my

01:33:27.240 20s it put a ton of energy on that because it was like I don't want to wait you know so then you've

01:33:32.620 got to figure everything out pretty quick and that doesn't allow for like anything to really you know

01:33:36.040 kind of grow it makes things hectic I don't know I'm just thinking some of this I'm just thinking

01:33:39.420 out loud yeah one thing that I've noticed through this conversation that I really appreciate about

01:33:45.280 you is you're unafraid whether you're doing it on purpose or not of like speaking out loud and

01:33:53.300 working through these thoughts in real time I there's no expectation that you need to have the

01:33:59.860 perfect answer or like man you're working through this thought and I've noticed a few times you said

01:34:03.920 like I don't know anything you know a lot in the way that you think through life that in and of

01:34:10.620 itself is extremely valuable so I just want to encourage you in that thanks like that that is

01:34:16.600 super it's helpful for me to recognize that I don't need to have all the answers yeah I think

01:34:22.800 i get i would get afraid to speak because i didn't know you know i think at times or you have to put

01:34:29.680 like i don't know like sometimes yeah you feel like you're like well thanks for saying that yeah

01:34:35.980 yeah i used to i feel like i was better at doing that i used to feel i think um even with podcasting

01:34:41.540 i think it started to get like you know you have a pressure to want to do good or to be

01:34:45.860 be at a certain level and so i think sometimes i got you know i don't know yeah maybe sometimes

01:34:51.120 at times i was like oh well i need to be able to know more then you know um who what do we know

01:34:57.940 about anything though and it's our first time dude how often bro my uh my my friend megan she's a

01:35:06.120 therapist up in or in in portland and she's always like it's our first time it's like this is our

01:35:11.700 first time being alive like that we know of you know i'm saying like it's like and we're like

01:35:17.480 we're all under so much expectation um but our society puts it on us and then we you know some

01:35:23.660 of us do but yeah it's like yeah i used to do a better um at times i've done a i've done i feel

01:35:30.760 like i've been a little more patient with my own thought process and i used to enjoy that yeah

01:35:35.180 and so thanks for the reminder to even like yeah it's a good thing i i want to get back to that a

01:35:40.940 little bit more like being like hey i'm okay i'm just figuring this out yeah you know that's pretty

01:35:45.860 cool it is pretty cool um what i want to talk to you about quitting okay you had like i'm paraphrasing

01:35:53.800 here but i've told this to like 10 people in the past week i'm like he says that when he's thinking

01:36:00.640 about quitting he'll think of himself like two days later or something in in like a comfortable

01:36:06.660 space with as much food and as much like love and consent and attend whatever he needs will all be

01:36:13.240 there. And he asked that person, should I quit? What do you say? Yeah. I just forecast that

01:36:24.220 comfortable version of myself that's out of the painful experience. And I asked that version of

01:36:30.280 myself, would he be proud of the effort that I put in if I stepped off the course right now?

01:36:38.300 I think more often at least every time I've asked that question I can't honestly look at that person

01:36:46.920 yeah and say you did everything you could out here and it's my way of removing myself from the pain

01:36:53.980 because the pain and the discomfort is is a narrative it's this like thing that's trying

01:37:03.340 like we crave comfort we crave to get out of discomfort it's hard for us to do that yeah and

01:37:09.560 even when we're in the midst of it it's like that's when it's most difficult so i try and

01:37:14.800 pull myself out of it and so you'll be running and you'll have this you will you actively take

01:37:20.040 a process of thinking bro i will lay down on the course and i will put my head in my arm and i will

01:37:27.620 visualize myself that like whether it's a hotel, whether it's, you know, a friend's house, I will

01:37:33.920 visualize myself. It could be a spa. And it could be a spa. And I'll just, I'll just ask that version

01:37:43.620 like, Hey, are we doing everything we can out here? And the answer is always, no, you have more

01:37:51.380 in you like that version would say dude get up and keep moving that version is also just chilling

01:37:59.280 at the house dude i respect that version and i know what you're saying but in a physical way

01:38:04.660 that version is like but no i hear what you're saying though like yeah with that version like

01:38:11.160 is that version gonna just to have a but the biggest thing is just having that communication

01:38:16.820 yeah like there's an in two days there's another me yes that's in a different space and how does

01:38:23.040 he view what's going on here because it's like it's a different version but it's the same version

01:38:27.460 yeah that version still has to live with the decision that this version makes yeah and dude

01:38:35.280 that's life that's like that's life it's like whenever we're confronted with a difficult

01:38:39.260 decision if you can pull yourself out whatever you decide to do the future you has to deal with

01:38:46.380 those decisions as long as you can be proud of it no matter what the outcome is you're good um

01:38:52.500 have you developed a real because i'm sure you probably face a lot of moments that you want to

01:38:57.740 quit right have you developed like a relationship with the part of you that wants to quit

01:39:03.880 like i'm saying does that voice come along so much because like say i'll be lifting weights

01:39:09.720 And like even this morning, I got up real early and I got my stuff done and I noticed like, OK, there's this early voice in me.

01:39:18.840 I want to quit. Stop. And I'm like, sometimes I can just breeze right through that voice.

01:39:24.100 I know that's just bullshit. That's a hitchhiker. That guy doesn't even that voice doesn't even have a home. 1.00

01:39:29.700 That thing is just some lame ass quitter voice out here. Yeah, with a thumb up. Right. 0.64

01:39:35.400 that voice isn't shit that voice just like it's eating chips first of all um so i know but then 0.98

01:39:42.600 i'll start to notice i'll just start to notice some of the uh some of the secondary ones and so 0.98

01:39:47.420 i don't like but i'm at least now i can notice that first one sure it's just like it's not it's

01:39:52.460 total like placebo yeah but what are what are the ones that you that you notice because you've gone

01:39:57.980 to some depths that are pretty intense to keep going yeah so very similar to you like that those

01:40:03.460 first 24 hours, that voice and that person that wants me to quit is like that comfort quit where

01:40:08.880 it's like, eh, I haven't really invested enough. And you know, let's just like, let's just step

01:40:15.160 off. But it's easier in a way to get over that. Cause you sort of, you can call out the BS. You

01:40:20.480 see it. Like, like you said, it's a hitchhiker. It's not, doesn't have a home. The deeper you go

01:40:25.540 in, the more I feel it is a direct confrontation with who I am at my core. And so the deeper you

01:40:37.140 go, the more difficult I feel like it is to sift through, am I actually making an excuse in this

01:40:45.820 moment? Or is this something I seriously need to consider because I'm going real deep and dark in

01:40:52.820 this moment. Um, I don't see it necessarily as like, like a psycho where I'm seeing like two

01:41:00.080 versions of myself in my mind, but more can I take one step? Like, can I just sit in this painful

01:41:09.540 experience and know through experience that there is light on the other side of this darkness

01:41:18.300 and have faith, have faith that I will get there as long as I continue to move forward.

01:41:25.500 And so it's more of just combating that narrative and all the other narratives that go on

01:41:31.660 and say, I'm looking at my feet right now. If my feet are moving forward, that is evidence

01:41:37.780 that the story in my mind is not the full truth. Can I just keep looking at my feet, move forward?

01:41:45.040 And when you do that sometimes out there, you'll just sit there and watch them move

01:41:48.260 forward i'll just watch and move forward even if the inside of you in your head is like i can't do

01:41:52.100 it your feet are saying we can do it wow because usually it feels like it's the other way around

01:41:57.240 when you quit in what way like isn't it like sometimes it'll be my brain oh no maybe not

01:42:04.060 well your body like breaking down and and but that's a real quit that's like you can't do it

01:42:08.580 yeah um dude that's that's crazy bro so you just keep proving to yourself with one next step

01:42:15.680 that you can, until your brain follows suit again.

01:42:19.460 Yeah, and it'll come back around.

01:42:21.440 Like, the narrative will be like,

01:42:23.000 oh, he's proved it over the last 20 hours.

01:42:25.920 We can stop feeding him this BS.

01:42:29.180 It doesn't mean that you've completely overcome it.

01:42:31.680 It might come back around,

01:42:33.240 but it's that right there.

01:42:36.140 It's like, okay.

01:42:39.380 And like every step, it's boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

01:42:43.100 So it's like constant evidence.

01:42:45.040 It's constant evidence.

01:42:46.680 It's not until I make this loop, I'll be able to prove to myself that I can go.

01:42:51.420 It's how can I break it down so that I'm giving myself evidence so fast that the narrative doesn't have an opportunity to like build on itself.

01:43:01.240 Oh, that's wild.

01:43:03.260 Yeah, because sometimes that thing is so strong, you need that much evidence.

01:43:07.040 Yes.

01:43:07.600 Yeah, and they say that in like recovery programs all the time.

01:43:09.740 they say like you can't um think your way in the right action but you can act your way in the right

01:43:14.840 thinking yes and it just makes me think of that yeah can i just take one more step in this direction

01:43:19.340 huh yeah i can yeah and most of the time that's the answer is yeah i can um what are you not good

01:43:26.360 at mark because if we keep sitting up here just massaging each other's egos this is not going to

01:43:32.960 be cool so what are you not good at i think that or where do you have where do you struggle where

01:43:38.780 are some places that you struggle i think i struggle with understanding that it's not all

01:43:43.600 about me um the ego is so scary it is very scary and it's like a shadow that gets longer you don't

01:43:51.680 even notice it it's like the more light that gets shine on you this shadow kind of gets longer and

01:43:57.340 you don't even really notice it and you turn around there's this and people are like you're 0.99

01:44:01.480 an asshole you're like okay well let me figure it out but no but no the ego is a scary thing 0.99

01:44:07.440 because you don't really know how it grows 1.00

01:44:08.900 or what causes it to grow sometimes, you know?

01:44:12.260 And I can try and convince myself

01:44:15.200 that I'm doing a good job of maintaining it,

01:44:19.600 but that can also feed my ego.

01:44:22.440 Right, because look, I'm doing a good job of maintaining it.

01:44:25.000 Yes.

01:44:25.300 Who's doing that?

01:44:26.160 I am. 1.00

01:44:27.400 Fuck. 1.00

01:44:28.300 I think that's what's kind of happened to me over like, 1.00

01:44:31.100 yeah, dude, it's like, I don't know.

01:44:33.240 It's interesting.

01:44:34.600 But that's all the journey too.

01:44:36.120 It's like, yeah, I don't attach myself to a ton of experiences.

01:44:39.440 I kind of feel like it's just, everything's just like an experiment sort of that I'm in.

01:44:42.620 Yeah.

01:44:43.120 But like acclaim is an interesting thing, you know?

01:44:48.040 Acclaim?

01:44:48.440 Being acclaimed for something, having acclaim for something.

01:44:51.540 Like being applauded or?

01:44:52.700 Yes.

01:44:52.980 Yeah.

01:44:53.220 Okay.

01:44:54.100 Yeah.

01:44:54.340 Because it's scary.

01:44:55.160 Yeah.

01:44:55.580 You know, because your ego will sit there and just listen to that all day.

01:44:58.280 Yeah.

01:44:59.200 And it's hard to, like, even if you try, like, I can tell myself the applause don't matter,

01:45:04.940 but it's almost like my ego or the dna still picks it up picks up that frequency it's like

01:45:12.120 i don't care what you say we're gonna still try and build you up a little bit yeah like a little

01:45:17.420 gremlin in the dark it is dude yeah um how much have what's your relationship been like with your

01:45:25.500 own uh ability to create discipline for yourself i find myself struggling with that so

01:45:34.020 I struggle with the word discipline so weird because I just see it as discipline is doing the

01:45:45.100 basic things consistently. And sometimes that's hard for me to do. So I try and implement

01:45:52.640 strategies where I can outsource that discipline. So in order to be a good runner, I'm lifting

01:46:00.180 weights. And I got my buddy, Austin Yocum, who is a guy I played football with, and he's got his

01:46:06.280 own gym in Minneapolis. And he's one of my great buddies. And he's the expert in the gym. If I

01:46:13.980 tried to be the expert in the gym and go to like a Planet Fitness or someplace and try and do that

01:46:18.320 on my own, I wouldn't have the discipline to do it because motivation isn't there. And motivation

01:46:24.760 is is like a feeling where you you can't rely on that so for me so motivation is not something you

01:46:30.620 can rely on you don't at all i i don't rely on motivation at all because it's it's how often

01:46:36.920 are you motivated like yeah you never i don't know like the more you do something the less

01:46:41.540 motivation plays a factor and dude sometimes i get motivated i'll be like oh dude i'm motivated

01:46:46.580 i'm fine yeah yeah you're like i'm good today i'm feeling dude bro i'm motivated i don't even

01:46:55.080 need to go do anything i'm already doing good and then i don't do anything i love that i love 0.91

01:47:02.200 that you said that that's crazy i never thought about that shit bro so i i show up in the morning 0.95

01:47:09.360 to yokums to lift and all i have to do is show up and what's his gym called yokum strength 0.99

01:47:15.600 yokum strength yokum sounds like he's that's his last name too he's this huge dude with long hair

01:47:22.820 oh yeah land of 10 000 necks yes land of 10 000 traps yeah bro dude bro a mouse won't go near his 0.98

01:47:32.860 back bro yo come that's him oh dang bro you could probably sell his semen on the market 0.94

01:47:40.220 and that's illegal to people but um anyway so i go to him so you outsource so you trust him i trust 0.92

01:47:48.440 him i don't have to think about my weight lifting all i have to do is show up and then when i'm

01:47:54.320 there i know that i'm in a space where if i give my best effort i'm gonna get the results because

01:48:00.340 i trust him to do that got it for running i don't have a coach and i am really bad at saying all

01:48:08.720 all right, I'm going to set this schedule for this week and I'm going to do 70 miles and I'm

01:48:12.500 going to do 10 this day and seven this day. Yeah, that's Austin right there. Oh, what's up Austin?

01:48:17.960 And so what I do is I outsource that. There's this challenge called the calendar club challenge

01:48:22.880 and it's where you run the number of miles equal to the day of the month. So on the first,

01:48:27.320 you run one mile, then two miles, then three, all the way up to 30 or 31 miles at the end of the

01:48:31.880 month. And you have to run every day. You have to run every day. And for me, it's great because

01:48:36.620 I know every mile I'm running for the entire month. I don't have to think about it. And it's

01:48:41.900 a good challenge because toward the end of the month, you're starting to run a lot of miles

01:48:46.220 that then help prepare me for hour 60 of a backyard ultra. When my legs are tired,

01:48:52.300 my brain's tired. I'm missing sleep a little bit more. I'm fatigued. I'm under fueled because I'm

01:48:57.860 burning so many calories and trying to maintain all of that. And, um, so calendar club is like,

01:49:05.940 now that's my discipline because I don't have to think about it. I've outsourced the thought

01:49:12.640 process or, you know, if I don't feel like running today, well, I got 20 miles to run a day. I got

01:49:20.100 to go do that. Right. I don't have a choice in this. Got it. So you just made the commitment

01:49:23.860 and you're in, and then you don't worry about all the extracurriculars of it. No. That's a lot. Yeah.

01:49:29.240 Because that's too much sometimes. I don't want to think. Yeah. I do enough of that. Thinking does

01:49:34.520 not help us i started to notice this a little bit sometimes i'm just like my brain's running but i'm

01:49:41.500 not thinking and when i start to notice that i'm like that's not good that's not the best thing

01:49:46.060 because that's just my brain it's like it's just bullshitting or whatever it's just like smoking

01:49:51.540 or whatever i don't know what my brain is doing right now but it's just like it's like throwing

01:49:55.400 old thoughts at me or don't you feel bad about this remember this dude or whatever but it's not

01:50:00.200 like usually fun stuff so it's usually just kind of like try it's like a your junk folder of an

01:50:05.300 email account yeah it's like the guy with the wiener and he's got the controller in his hand

01:50:09.880 it's like dude give me back that controller bro this is all just park wiener yeah yeah get this

01:50:15.980 guy out of here yeah this guy get out of my head what's he doing and he had a crazy the wiener

01:50:22.000 seemed crazy i only looked at it once but you didn't get a second look i don't remember i would

01:50:28.060 have given a second i mean i could draw it for you on a napkin if i had to but what i'm saying

01:50:32.320 is i only looked at it once dude and i was helping my girlfriend yeah but anyway uh yeah dude it was

01:50:38.380 just a i mean it was just like broad daylight in a park but anyway what i'm trying to say here is

01:50:42.760 um but yeah that's not thinking yeah right that's my brain just spinning around so then i start to

01:50:49.640 like if my brain starts to think a little bit like i'm actually thinking like oh what do i think about

01:50:54.760 this or how can I solve this or what's going on? I'll start. I want to try and like, I want to

01:51:00.040 start like saying, Oh, thank you brain. Cause then it's like, Oh good. I'm gonna start thinking more

01:51:07.560 because I think just with like phone and just life, you get so caught up. Like a lot of times

01:51:12.320 I'm not even thinking. I'm just like, I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah. Like I like it when my brain

01:51:18.000 thinks cause it's doing something cool. It's like, how can we do this or what's going on? Or here's

01:51:22.700 Somebody's birthday today or somebody just got, you know, three years of recovery or somebody's heading off to like a psilocybin journey. 0.99

01:51:29.780 Just little things so I can call and congratulate, just little things so my brain's just not filled with my bullshit, right? 0.99

01:51:34.900 Yeah, yeah. 0.97

01:51:35.360 It's like, dude, if I get a thought in the morning of somebody else and it's not me, dude, it is like, oh, dude, it's like my heart just got like a Christmas present.

01:51:45.480 like the other day I woke up and I was thinking of my sister and it was like the best and I don't

01:51:50.580 mean that in a weird way but it was like the best thing ever I was like oh so nice to wake up

01:51:56.900 thinking about somebody else have you found ways to cultivate that yes for me recently it's been

01:52:05.340 having a gratitude list and people say gratitude list all the time but I don't think just writing

01:52:09.340 things down it doesn't help me I have to write like like I'll say like yesterday I was writing

01:52:15.120 I'm thankful for my friend Curtis right so then I'll think why am I thankful for my friend Curtis

01:52:20.060 well I'm thankful for when we go on walks together and we talk about stuff we'll talk

01:52:25.060 about faith we'll talk about what's really going on in our lives um and so then I'll think about

01:52:30.680 that I'll think about all right that's me and Curtis we're walking we're talking about this

01:52:35.320 we'll joke around you know like we'll laugh a little bit we'll get serious we'll share about

01:52:41.280 things that have meant something to us um we'll go see his son play football i'll think about that

01:52:46.880 and i'll think oh i get to sit in the stands he's down there on the field he's coaching his son like 0.78

01:52:52.060 how much pride he feels um his wife's in the stands she's cheering they got some ridiculous 0.88

01:52:57.620 lady that keeps blowing one of those horns or whatever but i'll attach a lot of thoughts to it

01:53:02.020 and those thoughts make me feel something so now i'm have a gratitude list but i'm feeling

01:53:08.360 something about it. Like this morning I wrote also, Oh, I'm thankful for the doors in my house.

01:53:13.420 And so I thought about, well, how do I feel when I open certain doors? How do I feel when I walk

01:53:18.420 through them? Right. So just trying to attach like actual moments to just the writing. Uh,

01:53:25.580 and that's just been helping me somehow. I think it's just, I'm just cultivating a little bit more

01:53:30.240 that I'm not saying I'm perfect or anything about it or, or anything shit. I'm barely, 0.90

01:53:35.020 you know i'm saying we do we're we out here but i mean i but that's a cool thing that i started to

01:53:42.100 do and then here's the crazy part i start kind of liking it yeah now i'm like dude i woke up and i

01:53:49.040 was like what is something i can be thankful for and i didn't think that two months ago yeah you

01:53:54.440 know i've always had a decent practice of it but this is something else um yeah here's he just has

01:54:01.260 the bit that thanks for pulling this up trevin uh uh ultimately gratitude is more complex than

01:54:06.300 merely expressing courtesy or focusing on positive thinking when you regularly focus or meditate on

01:54:10.680 what you are thankful for it causes effects that promote well-being including psychology

01:54:14.920 and physical health um gratitude affects the amygdala which regulates the sns

01:54:20.880 not sure what that means and our anxiety response is regularly journeying about gratitude

01:54:25.780 or discussing it as part of a group have long been parts of successful life coaching approaches

01:54:30.600 um it reduces depression that's something i do think maybe i'm getting out i hate talking about

01:54:37.100 stuff bro if i'm new to it because i'm afraid it's gonna go away well okay what i i witnessed

01:54:43.420 in you when you were talking about it's like your eyes were closed and it was almost like you were

01:54:47.340 back in that experience walking with your friend yeah and you were back in that moment where you

01:54:52.460 felt all that gratitude so it was almost like it was it was crazy watching this because it was like

01:54:57.200 you were pulling out that experience and you were feeling it right now yeah and it's like oh wait

01:55:02.960 the more we feel the things we're most grateful for it's like man that's gonna carry with us

01:55:08.400 yeah dude that's the thing like I don't know I'm just started the practice of it I've probably

01:55:13.520 been doing it about two months now maybe six weeks but it's just feeling good and I have started to

01:55:18.880 like it a little bit more and the craziest thing is I used to be able to only think of a few things

01:55:22.880 i'm grateful for and now it's like i'm be able to think of more so i don't know it's been

01:55:29.020 interesting i'm sure in two days i'll just be vaping and laying there touching myself for no

01:55:34.440 reason but for now i feel like maybe something new could be going on um i heard you you had a

01:55:43.600 post this the other day that i thought was really cool and you were you were talking this is on uh

01:55:47.400 on instagram i think and you were just talking about how things in your life wouldn't be possible

01:55:52.440 without Jesus Christ, without your faith.

01:55:55.160 Yeah.

01:55:55.460 How has faith played a role, and how did faith start in your life?

01:55:59.440 Yeah.

01:56:01.260 I mean, I grew up going to Catholic.

01:56:04.100 I was Catholic grade school, altar boy, all that stuff, stoked about funerals.

01:56:09.780 That's why you're fast if you're an altar boy.

01:56:12.800 Sorry.

01:56:15.240 Sorry, Pat.

01:56:15.960 Hey, hey, it's okay.

01:56:17.320 Sorry, Bishop.

01:56:17.920 Yeah, you got a Bishop coming on next week.

01:56:19.580 You're going to have to explain yourself.

01:56:20.940 And he's from Minnesota.

01:56:22.100 Oh, really?

01:56:22.780 Yeah.

01:56:23.560 Okay.

01:56:24.000 He's from Minnesota, so I'm excited about it.

01:56:25.080 You're going to have to explain yourself to him.

01:56:27.500 That's true.

01:56:27.880 So went through that, went through Jesuit high school, went through, you know, it was

01:56:31.820 a Catholic university, but never felt like it was a choice that I was making.

01:56:36.820 And in high school, I struggled for a number of different reasons, but I struggled making

01:56:43.140 strong, deep-rooted connections with people.

01:56:45.680 So I always felt like an outsider.

01:56:47.040 And so I always felt like in order for me to be a part of this group, I have to predict how I think they want me to live and be like and the amount of I don't know if I'd call it anxiety, but like I it was this scared mindset of like trying to predict how they wanted me to act and always getting it wrong.

01:57:13.800 and then trying to figure out like i was always living up in my head thinking i knew what was

01:57:19.360 going up on you in your mind and trying to live that way oh yeah bro you're like an emt dude yeah

01:57:25.900 when you're living like that you were literally like an emt you're just like sitting there wait 0.98

01:57:29.520 like you're like a response team yes it's like how do i respond right yeah that shit's hectic 0.91

01:57:35.040 some of that could just be being young but i think also that it's uh that it's interesting 0.87

01:57:39.360 that you were noticing that okay go on and so leaving high school I had sort of made this quiet

01:57:44.680 promise with myself that I didn't want to feel that way again and so I chased acceptance I was

01:57:49.660 like I'm gonna do whatever it I can to get people to like me and not live this way anymore and a lot

01:57:57.580 of the things were like be successful in sports drink and have a good time and you know I would

01:58:03.600 let my friends shoot me with a blow dart being drunk or shoot me with a BB gun because that was 0.91

01:58:09.820 fun. I was, I was, I was the center of attention. You know, shoot me. Yeah, dude, hatchet me. 1.00

01:58:17.760 Cut off my leg. Who cares, bro? Let's go. And, uh, and that worked for a while, you know, that, 0.99

01:58:25.860 that works. And eventually that led me into a place where I was like, you know, getting in

01:58:32.540 trouble with alcohol having regrets having shame um talking about you know the things that i talked

01:58:38.160 about earlier of just like bottling up emotions and having that come out in negative ways that

01:58:42.600 shame's crazy oh it's wild it'll do some dark things to you it's crazy i think most of our

01:58:48.180 country i don't know i think a lot of us are living in shame especially uh men because of

01:58:54.100 probably pornography and stuff like that and how it's just been able to be so accessible

01:58:58.300 you know like how it was just like i don't know imagine how much shame is rocking around out there

01:59:03.600 and how shame can be used to control you yeah this is wild uh in my spam in my email

01:59:14.380 this is like a couple months ago someone was trying to uh what do you call it like hold me

01:59:22.960 hostage for like Bitcoin. They're like, you got to pay us this amount because we saw you through

01:59:29.720 your camera watching porn. And I gave up watching porn when I started following Christ a little

01:59:37.280 over two and a half years ago. And I'm grateful for that. And I thank God for that because maybe

01:59:43.420 in the darkness of me doing that consistently and feeling that shame, I would have allowed that

01:59:50.680 shame to control me and but i'm set free from that now and i know that's a lie because that's

01:59:56.500 not something that i do anymore and it's just like how many people are falling to that yeah

02:00:02.400 and how you wouldn't i hope i don't get it um but bring that up if that's a scam right now let's

02:00:08.420 take a peek at it i'm 29 days off of pornography right now good good so i'm feeling it's the most

02:00:15.000 i've done in a long time i can't even believe it it's freeing but i'm gonna keep believing it yeah

02:00:20.420 you know

02:00:21.740 instead of just being like I'm just gonna keep believing it

02:00:25.200 reports of scammers

02:00:29.140 claiming they recorded people watching

02:00:31.160 pornography via their webcam are widespread

02:00:32.980 form of extortion known as

02:00:34.840 sextortion

02:00:37.000 the threat

02:00:39.240 victims receive an email or letter claiming

02:00:41.320 a hacker took over their computer

02:00:43.080 activated their webcam and recorded

02:00:45.260 a split screen video of them viewing

02:00:47.200 explicit websites

02:00:48.720 yep the scare tactics scammers often include an old password stolen from a past corporate or

02:00:54.080 website data breach wow in the email subject line or body to trick the recipient into believing

02:01:00.140 their device is fully compromised some advanced variants even include a google street view image

02:01:05.800 of the victim's house to induce panic that's crazy the demand the sender threatens to send

02:01:12.900 the fabricated video to the victim's family friends or co-workers unless a ransom usually

02:01:18.740 paid in bitcoin or another cryptocurrency is sent with a strict deadline oh my god wow i didn't know

02:01:26.460 this was happening dude yeah it is a bluff cyber security experts cyber security experts and law

02:01:34.240 enforcement agencies note that their claims are almost always entirely false the scammers do not

02:01:39.160 have a video of you, do not have access to your webcam and generally do not possess your content

02:01:43.560 list. Data is bought and spoofed. The password used as proof was bought cheaply off the dark

02:01:50.100 web from old unrelated leaks. And the email address is often spoofed to look like it came

02:01:54.840 from your own account. That's crazy. I didn't know all that was going on. Did you? I did just

02:02:00.620 from my experience. Right. Wow. Dude, I'm glad we talked about that because I can't even imagine.

02:02:07.180 I mean, every dude I know would send at least $30 or $60, $80 or something like that.

02:02:16.160 Yeah, at least $140 probably.

02:02:18.700 I mean, every dude I know would continually, or not every, but a lot of dudes have fallen prey to it.

02:02:26.220 And to think of your webcam, oh, man.

02:02:28.060 Well, at least for me at that time, it was aimed at fulfilling a need that I thought that I could fulfill with something worldly.

02:02:39.800 And yes, pleasure in that regard.

02:02:43.340 Yes, acceptance from people in high school and trying to change that in college and chasing achievement and getting to a point where none of these things fulfilled me.

02:02:53.220 And I think I feel really encouraged and compelled to like, man, there's a lot of things that we think that are going to give us what only God can give us.

02:03:09.980 Yeah. And, uh, and I think it's interesting that, you know, porn is something that is

02:03:16.940 kind of commonplace and yet it is being used against us. And I think that is something that

02:03:25.540 is important because there, I did feel shame around it. And I think the answer wasn't to

02:03:32.800 pretend to not feel shame around it. It was to reconcile why I feel shame around it and understand

02:03:40.560 that there's a better way to honor life and honor my thoughts and bring them closer to what God would

02:03:52.300 want them to be. Yeah. And you just have, we had my friend on here who's a poor, uh, he's a

02:03:58.680 pornography recovery coach. Right. And, um, he's amazing, dude. He's the greatest dude. He's been

02:04:04.080 through so much, but just all the things that hijacks that we don't even realize. It's like

02:04:08.680 the way then that you look at your spouse, the way that you communicate with women in general,

02:04:13.260 um, just the energy you bring into the world, even, you know, like even if I've been yurking

02:04:18.800 off or whatever, if I'm going out in the world, my energy is just different. So it's like,

02:04:23.780 I don't know. It's not a pressure to make anybody feel bad, but just like, yeah, it's,

02:04:28.120 it is, it is like a, it is like, it's your own spirit and this like, and this greater energy

02:04:36.460 of like, of a connection with God that you could just, that I believe you get disconnected from.

02:04:41.480 I felt like I was a slave to it. Like in the, in the.

02:04:45.120 It was habit forming.

02:04:46.040 Yeah. And it's like, you close the door, you close the shades. It's like everything about

02:04:51.040 it made me feel like I needed to hide myself from the world.

02:04:54.140 Yeah.

02:04:54.800 And then I would take that with me.

02:04:57.860 And like you said, like people that you would see,

02:05:00.100 women that you would see, it would change how I viewed them. 0.92

02:05:03.100 And it would change how I viewed my spouse. 0.69

02:05:05.520 Yeah.

02:05:06.920 Yeah, it's all damaging.

02:05:08.080 And I think the way we interact with her,

02:05:09.400 all that stuff just has an effect.

02:05:10.880 That's what I'm saying.

02:05:11.500 That's what I mean.

02:05:12.160 I just mean like if somebody's like realizing like,

02:05:14.480 man, I'm having trouble in my relationship,

02:05:15.620 I'm having trouble in my relationship,

02:05:16.680 even just like being around my kids

02:05:18.300 or going to do something fun or having more time,

02:05:20.480 all of that gets affected, I think,

02:05:22.520 or the little side effects we don't notice.

02:05:24.460 um, what about like sexual, like activity before a race? Will you not engage? Like,

02:05:30.300 what is that like? Cause for boxers, they say that that's a thing, you know,

02:05:33.120 what's it like for a marathon runners? Cause if I'm going to run 95 miles,

02:05:36.840 maybe it's better if my wife's waiting for me there at the end than if I just left out of a

02:05:41.420 room, you know? Yeah. I, I actually haven't thought about that too much. Really? So it's

02:05:45.900 not, it's not on your, it's not on your radar. No. Yeah. Um, oh yeah. And I interrupted you

02:05:51.560 about when you were talking about your relationship with God?

02:05:54.900 Yeah, I wouldn't say interrupt, but we, yeah, I would say through chasing all these different

02:06:02.060 things that I thought would fulfill me, I would come up empty. And for me, it was, you know,

02:06:08.140 I was running around thinking that running was going to be the thing that would give me

02:06:12.960 fame and sponsorships and financial freedom and all of these things that I thought I wanted.

02:06:18.660 and none of it was happening for me

02:06:21.960 and I felt empty.

02:06:25.320 You just weren't achieving those things?

02:06:28.120 Yeah, they weren't coming in the way that I wanted them to

02:06:31.380 and even in the ways that they were,

02:06:33.040 it wasn't enough to keep me happy and joyful.

02:06:37.900 It was almost like it was doing the opposite.

02:06:41.340 Wow, so did it get to a point

02:06:43.380 where you were almost going to quit running at one point?

02:06:45.520 Not necessarily quit, but have a...

02:06:48.660 uh try and figure out what the point of me running was got it you know I'd started doing

02:06:55.140 the charity runs with my friend and have this beautiful relationship and then somewhere along

02:06:59.980 the way it became this avenue of like well I want to be a professional at this and in order to be a

02:07:05.040 professional I need followers money and sponsors right and those yes are like tangible things that

02:07:14.100 help you become a professional, but I was chasing them for their end, like for what they could do

02:07:21.560 for me. And, uh, yeah, I was, I was on a run and I was listening to a podcast, uh, with Cameron

02:07:27.620 Haynes and Sally McRae. And they were talking about how in the deepest, darkest moments during

02:07:32.000 the races that they are reminded that they are made by a strong creator and that they are that

02:07:38.780 creator that strength is in them because they're made in his image image in his likeness wow and

02:07:45.080 that thought i was like maybe this is this is something that i need to think about i didn't

02:07:50.980 know how to do that but it was a thought that was put on my heart and not even five miles later i

02:07:58.800 come across a friend his name's vince i hadn't seen him in a year and he's sitting by the lake

02:08:05.240 reading a Bible. I'm like, what's up, Vince? Like, how you doing? What are you doing out here? What

02:08:11.580 brings you out here? He's like, I have fallen from my faith and something about today, the Holy

02:08:19.320 Spirit put on my heart that I need to come here and I need to read scripture. And the verse he

02:08:25.720 was reading when I interrupted him was in the book of John. And it's, I'm paraphrasing, but it said,

02:08:32.360 the reason you do not know God is because you are not of God. And to me, it hit me like a ton

02:08:37.500 of bricks. Like I didn't know what was going to fulfill me. I was chasing all of these things and

02:08:45.360 they weren't doing it. And now I have this thought of like, well, what does a relationship with God

02:08:51.820 look like? And that scripture was like, well, if you want to find out, go find out, go do something

02:08:58.220 about it. Go take action. Join a men's group. Go to church. Go to some place that you can learn

02:09:04.520 more about understanding what the kingdom of God is all about. And from that point, I started

02:09:11.560 actually taking steps forward. It's like if you want to build a relationship with a person or a

02:09:15.980 spouse, you don't do so by staying distant from them. You get to know them. You talk to them. You

02:09:22.560 learn about how they love and how they are calling you to live and how they're calling themselves to

02:09:29.140 live. And that's what I started with was just like, hey, okay, let me open the Bible. I've

02:09:34.460 never done that before. Yeah. Let me crack it open. What does that even mean? Yeah. And those

02:09:41.220 Bibles up in Minnesota, they sound like a can of beer when you open them, some of them. There's a

02:09:45.920 lot of beer up there. Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that

02:09:51.400 you did not belong to God well and so I wanted to hear God man yeah I because I had tried everything

02:09:58.600 oh there you go dude that's it I tried everything what else is there you know like yeah like when

02:10:06.020 do I admit that to myself you know like I tried everything I tried everything yeah I tried to do

02:10:11.660 it my way yeah I just tried everything you know it's crazy to think that God made us because he

02:10:18.000 loved us you know that's one of the wildest things it's not wild but it's like yeah the other day

02:10:24.140 we're at this i go to a bible study and they have uh they were just talking about asking god what

02:10:30.020 you could do for his kingdom you know and like sometimes if you can really get in a good space

02:10:35.100 and really ask that i just i'd never thought about it before you know just like really asking god

02:10:42.140 what can I do for you, you know?

02:10:46.220 Like sometimes you can really get in a space

02:10:47.980 where you really feel like a connection, you know?

02:10:49.820 Sometimes you're just, you know what I'm saying?

02:10:51.860 You gotta be, you know, there's 30 miles on the calendar.

02:10:54.620 It's the 30th of the month and you gotta hit the road, you know?

02:10:58.000 And you're drive-through praying.

02:10:59.920 You were like in the, you know,

02:11:01.420 you're just getting coffee at the window,

02:11:03.400 but sometimes you go inside the McDonald's of the Lord

02:11:07.440 and you really get in there on your knees and you, yeah.

02:11:12.140 I don't know.

02:11:13.920 But, yeah, it's like, man, God, what can I do for you, you know?

02:11:19.020 Yeah, it's kind of cool because then you could get to do something.

02:11:23.460 And it's not for yourself.

02:11:25.000 Yeah.

02:11:26.240 Sometimes it's flipping burgers in the back.

02:11:28.140 Yeah, that is fine, dude.

02:11:29.360 You know?

02:11:29.700 Sometimes it's in the play center.

02:11:33.120 Yeah, dude.

02:11:34.000 Sometimes it's just being an adult that's sitting in the ball pit vaping, dude.

02:11:38.760 If that's where God asks you.

02:11:40.520 but no i don't know i think there is like i don't know there can be like some excitement and

02:11:47.320 like yeah there's excitement in that space if you're if you can if you can get there with it

02:11:53.100 i think there's excitement in that space of like yeah what could god want me to do

02:11:57.480 you know who could he put in my life that there could be some new way to learn or i don't know

02:12:03.040 it's just easier when it's like like maybe if something good happens it's not just with

02:12:09.980 i'm just i'm not the only one to sit there and you can be like oh thanks god you know it's like

02:12:15.760 god that's cool it's like i'm not the only one it's not just oh yeah otherwise i'm just sitting

02:12:20.960 there by myself oh that was cool that was neat yeah you know but it's like to have somebody to

02:12:24.240 share something with when when you were thinking about that in that space were there clear answers

02:12:30.980 that came up for you um no not really i think it was just like i felt just grateful that i was

02:12:38.680 thinking about it you know yeah i think it's just better than sitting there with my thoughts and my

02:12:44.940 thoughts are just my own yeah you know i think it just feels like some reprieve um yeah so i think

02:12:54.100 that's kind of where i'm at with like some of the relationship with god or like kind of like what's

02:12:59.400 going on with me with it i guess i don't know it's always a little bit different um but yeah i don't

02:13:07.280 know if i'd ever even thought i'd exactly have this conversation right you know so i think it's

02:13:12.200 just like things little things you start to notice you know and i'm in a bible study man uh

02:13:16.780 you know this this thing that was like kind of nice that happened there's this um musician his

02:13:22.140 name is zach john king and i think he just had a new album that came out actually but

02:13:26.500 he had uh there's this new book it's called theo on golden okay it's by

02:13:33.880 alan levy or alan levi um and it's about uh an old man who goes into this uh sort of who goes

02:13:43.420 into this coffee shop in this town called golden but anyway my buddy zach john my my buddy zach

02:13:49.320 had given me this book and he'd uh and it was wrapped up in paper and he said oh my dad really

02:13:55.660 loved this book and he thought that you would like it so he gave it to me as a gift and i just put

02:14:00.700 in my truck and like two weeks later his father passed away it was like a sudden heart attack

02:14:04.620 um and then two weeks after that i realized i still had this book in my truck i'd never opened

02:14:11.180 it up and i opened it up and his dad had written in it he was just like uh i'm so grateful you and

02:14:18.280 my son are friends and i'm so grateful that you guys are uh learning about god together wow and

02:14:23.560 it was just like this like uh i don't know it was just like it's just like little things you know

02:14:30.160 um but it was like a nice moment that he and i got to have that his father was like you know

02:14:36.080 his father's still alive here through these words and um i don't know i'm kind of not doing the

02:14:42.260 story justice but no you are it was pretty special and he's a special guy and it kind of just gave us

02:14:47.960 like this little connection you know so it's just interesting um i don't know it's all kind of

02:14:53.500 interesting i get scared to talk about some of that kind of stuff because sometimes christian

02:14:59.580 people can be like, you know, they can nail you to the cross. It's like, bro, he already did that

02:15:06.660 for us. You know what I'm saying, bro? Put your toolbox down, Karen. So that's sometimes it's

02:15:13.500 like, uh, I don't know. Some of that stuff I get nervous talking about in some ways. I know I

02:15:19.560 shouldn't, I don't get nervous talking. I think maybe like in a public way. Yeah. Does that make

02:15:24.120 sense to you? It does make sense to me. And it brings up what you said earlier is like, I have

02:15:29.260 a fear of I don't know enough so I feel like the knowledge of it like almost like I have to have a

02:15:39.420 certain knowledge of it to be able to talk about it and like if that's what you said like you get

02:15:44.160 nailed to the cross like this is where I'm at in the in my faith journey yeah and this is what I

02:15:49.860 know which is not very much yeah but I'm still curious about it yeah and some of the stories

02:15:56.760 dude are not even that good i'm gonna go ahead and say that straight up bro i'm no dr seuss or

02:16:03.480 whatever or like freaking oprah or whatever but some of the stories in there it's like bro

02:16:10.280 this is a b-side track dude let's be realistic so i think i'm focusing on like the hits right now

02:16:18.600 okay you know yeah but um the hits are good dude but that's the hits the hits are good dude yeah

02:16:24.680 the hits hit bro

02:16:26.580 but yeah not to be ashamed

02:16:29.160 and also to be transparent

02:16:30.400 you know like there's been times where like

02:16:32.360 faith is kind of coming in my life in some ways

02:16:34.640 and then it's gone away

02:16:35.700 and I don't know what that's like I don't know

02:16:38.020 but

02:16:39.000 yeah like I had this like

02:16:42.860 I don't know

02:16:43.420 I found some other numbers on sextortion if you wanted to

02:16:46.520 read these off and we can plug it in

02:16:48.020 yeah dude I didn't even know let's get back

02:16:49.540 okay great thank you so much

02:16:51.700 oh these are keys

02:16:54.000 It says, sextortion is one of the fastest growing online crimes in the world with law enforcement and safety organizations reporting an unprecedented surge in cases over recent years.

02:17:02.180 While it's difficult to map the exact global numbers, estimated 98% of cases go unreported due to their fear and shame.

02:17:09.280 I could totally see that.

02:17:11.320 The explosion reports, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the United States received 26,718 sextortion reports via its cyber tip line in 2023.

02:17:22.640 A massive jump from 10,700 reports in 2022 and just 139 in 2021.

02:17:30.280 So it's growing.

02:17:33.900 NCMEC now averages roughly 812 reports of sextortion per week.

02:17:39.580 Teenage impact research from youth advocacy organization THORN indicates that one in five teenagers report experiencing some form of extortion online.

02:17:50.260 And other youth studies place the rate at around 1 in 20.

02:17:53.080 Dude, that's got to be horrible for kids.

02:17:56.140 Teenage boys and young men are most at risk.

02:17:58.620 Young men aged 14 to 24 have become the primary targets of financial sextortion.

02:18:02.460 For example, reports from cyberclip.ca indicate that 83% of victims are male when the gender is known.

02:18:10.200 Dang.

02:18:11.060 Bummer.

02:18:11.340 and lgbtq youth studies show that lgbtq plus individuals plus inez canter experience

02:18:23.380 disproportionately higher rates of both victimization and subsequent mental health

02:18:28.000 distress compared to their peers probably because they're saying not only were you 0.92

02:18:31.580 looking at pornography but you were looking at gay pornography yeah oh dark dark that's 0.76

02:18:41.320 why we got to keep going yeah one step forward that's it forward one step at a time let's look 0.97

02:18:47.300 at some of this mark uh doubtle porn uh sorry let's sorry i did not mean that we'll take that

02:18:53.820 out let's look at some of this mark dadle core that's what i meant dude some of the mark dadle

02:18:58.740 core that's out there all right let's just add to the lore from what a menace this dude must be

02:19:04.400 when you're out there running it's the middle of the night a lot of these men have not even seen

02:19:09.860 their wives or children for three days and this total menace comes up the course let me see some

02:19:17.020 of it bro and this was at the most recent race this was this was at the ultra yeah yeah

02:19:22.840 this message is for sam harvey back at base camp i didn't come for 158 souls i came for all 159

02:19:37.180 and you can count on that.

02:19:40.200 Woo!

02:19:42.180 Oh my God.

02:19:43.860 You guys heard it.

02:19:44.540 I heard it.

02:19:45.220 I heard it.

02:19:46.020 I heard it.

02:19:47.240 I heard it.

02:19:48.040 My favorite part is listening to the commentators on that.

02:19:50.960 Oh, bro, that's crazy, dude.

02:19:53.180 Yeah.

02:19:54.000 Do you have to keep your mentality that high out there?

02:19:56.720 Like, is it an active thing?

02:19:58.200 No.

02:19:58.880 Are there active moments where you're like,

02:20:00.560 okay, what do I think of now to get me to that finish line?

02:20:03.180 Like, okay, I'm going to think of this loop's for my family,

02:20:06.580 this loops for my mom, this loops for my, you know, do you think like that? Are there little

02:20:11.240 things you think of that get you to that next moment? Yes and no. I mean, uh, there's one

02:20:19.160 thing that kept me going out there, at least deeper into the race is like part of what I get

02:20:24.020 to do in running is that's how I provide for my family and through the different avenues of what

02:20:30.240 that represents um some of the best things that i get to do is i get to come home the week after

02:20:38.240 or the weeks after and it'll be a wednesday and my wife and i will get to hang out and not worry

02:20:44.720 about where we need to be and if i can step further into that darkness if i can take steps

02:20:52.720 towards the discomfort and over the overcome the pain of that situation the reward for that

02:20:59.460 is a movie on a Wednesday with my wife brother I will go through more pain to experience that

02:21:08.180 type of freedom and peace yeah and so like that is a big thing that keeps me going out there is

02:21:16.420 this this pain is nothing compared to the light that is waiting for me wow and I know that's

02:21:24.040 coming for me right if I can stay here and sit in it let me let me pay the tab right yeah let's go

02:21:28.640 let's go yeah like make it harder actually like bring it on because light and love will always

02:21:35.760 overcome the darkness that's in running and that's in life and that's in our faith that's in

02:21:40.640 our family and our friends our relationship everything light and love will overcome the

02:21:45.840 darkness and these races provide me evidence for that and i get to keep stepping into that

02:21:51.600 and uh yeah my wife is a big big light in my life lucy's her name yeah which means light 0.98

02:21:57.780 does it really yeah it does nice lucy and you guys have a baby on the way we do have a baby

02:22:04.520 that is true yeah let's go so that was another you know and do you know if it's going to be a

02:22:10.480 boy or girl yet we we don't know that yet brother we uh i don't know why i keep saying brother like

02:22:17.680 that it's okay dude but uh i'll put on a hulk hogan shirt if you want whatever you gotta do

02:22:23.540 to get through this um uh we had the first 10-week ultrasound um and we met with the midwife

02:22:30.640 two days ago and i heard the heartbeat for the first time wow and you've never done a 10-week

02:22:35.020 ultra uh-uh never never never done a 10-week culture but the baby has already baby has

02:22:41.580 wow so we know where this kid's headed to the loop it's another loop oh congratulations man

02:22:50.260 was that pretty amazing yeah it was um wow dude that's hard to put into words because

02:22:56.220 like i heard the heartbeat and it was like this is life and i'm listening to it but i can't see it

02:23:03.420 yeah but it's there it was just a weird i don't even know what the yeah it's just it was beautiful

02:23:12.000 yeah oh yeah dude and you know what's so interesting about the heartbeat that i think

02:23:16.960 about sometimes mark it's like my heartbeat it's my father and my mother's heartbeat it's together

02:23:22.440 right so it's like this like this beat has been going like the radio has been left on bro like

02:23:29.960 this is like this is like the timbre of like i mean i don't even know how long my family's even

02:23:35.620 been alive yeah but it's like it's the same like this beat is just i'm just a remix of all the

02:23:41.480 people that have been here and that created me dude and that's it like that's what you make like

02:23:45.820 you make the beat yeah it's pretty crazy really when you think about it yeah so sometimes like

02:23:50.540 if you miss your mother or you miss your father if there's somebody like you can like like that's

02:23:55.400 why like that beat is just right there it's kind of wild sometimes sometimes i'll do that and just

02:24:00.700 like kind of like think about a family member that's gone you know it's kind of cool that is

02:24:05.760 really cool i never thought about that yeah that's the thing bro that's the remix bro

02:24:12.240 That's the Mark Dowd-Lucy remix, bro.

02:24:14.780 That's the new track.

02:24:15.440 It's another loop, man.

02:24:16.320 It's another loop, bro.

02:24:18.880 That's perfect.

02:24:20.100 You do public speaking now?

02:24:21.740 You go out and talk to people and share what your journey and your faith is at basically most?

02:24:27.760 Or what is some of that when you go to different schools and events?

02:24:32.040 Yeah, so the way I think about running is in these three buckets under this same mission of I'm trying to figure out what I'm truly capable of,

02:24:40.820 and I want to help other people discover that too.

02:24:43.620 The first bucket is I demonstrate that.

02:24:45.520 I do the Arrowhead 135s, I do the Backyard Ultras,

02:24:48.620 and I put the words into action.

02:24:51.040 The next step is share that.

02:24:53.480 Share the tools and the lessons that I use in the toughest moments

02:24:56.720 out on the race, on the course, to help me overcome those.

02:25:00.620 And then whether that's through YouTube or Instagram

02:25:03.040 or going out and publicly speaking that to young men and women who,

02:25:08.420 you know, man, I would have loved to hear these lessons

02:25:10.620 as a high school and college kid where I was struggling to find my purpose and my identity

02:25:14.700 and what was really important. And to corporations who are looking for ways to kind of rejuvenate

02:25:22.400 their culture. So then there's that aspect. And the third is to create opportunities for

02:25:28.260 that to happen. So like one thing we do in Minnesota with my buddy Kellen and his business,

02:25:34.240 It's a sauna cold tub business

02:25:36.220 And we'll run three miles

02:25:38.220 In the middle of the winter

02:25:40.000 When it's minus 10 degrees out

02:25:42.380 And we'll run to a cold spot

02:25:44.500 In the Mississippi River

02:25:45.520 We'll crack open the ice with sledgehammers

02:25:48.060 We'll take a two minute cold prunge

02:25:50.020 And then we'll run two miles back to the saunas

02:25:52.280 And embrace north

02:25:53.100 And what I get to experience in that moment

02:25:56.160 Is somebody who is afraid

02:25:58.500 Of what this experience

02:26:00.560 Could be

02:26:01.280 And watch that fear build

02:26:03.940 over three miles and then they get to a hole and they they jump in and it's like all that fear that

02:26:11.900 they'd built up in their mind they realized the experience was not as scary as the reality of the

02:26:19.080 situation and that's what being in a backyard is for me that's what being in a you know the arrowhead

02:26:26.900 is for me it is experience that and how can I bring that to people and so the public speaking

02:26:32.960 is a way for me to like share this lesson

02:26:35.460 and then show people like, you can do this too.

02:26:38.160 You don't have to do, you know,

02:26:40.260 94 hours in a backyard to experience that.

02:26:43.360 Ooh, that guy got in the one with the two ladies in it, bro.

02:26:46.300 That's what I'm talking about, dude.

02:26:48.800 That guy picked me. 1.00

02:26:50.280 Dude, I've never seen two ladies 1.00

02:26:52.480 in the Mississippi River either, dude. 0.98

02:26:54.900 But this dude knows what's up.

02:26:56.140 Hey, that's what happens upstream.

02:26:57.700 Hell yeah.

02:26:58.200 Come upstream more often.

02:26:59.560 Come upstream.

02:27:01.160 Dude, what happens upstream stays upstream, bro.

02:27:05.500 Mark Dowdle, thanks so much, man.

02:27:07.180 Is there anything else that you want to discuss before you go?

02:27:09.720 No, I just want to thank you.

02:27:12.420 Thank you for your time.

02:27:13.960 And like I said earlier, thank you for the way that you think about things

02:27:17.860 because it's truly encouraging to hear you think and talk out loud.

02:27:22.720 And it encourages me to be able to do that more and more

02:27:25.520 without fear of needing to be perfect.

02:27:28.720 Oh, thanks, dude.

02:27:29.900 yeah i'm just trying my best you know i think most people are and i sometimes yeah and even

02:27:34.840 then i wish i did better at it you know what that's a crazy statement i'm trying my best

02:27:38.620 and then the next statement out of my mouth is man i wish i did better yeah that's that's just

02:27:43.580 proof right there what i'm talking about like gotta monitor these voices man yeah um but so

02:27:49.000 grateful i got to hear yours today dude and that's one that's going to keep ringing in my ears and

02:27:53.100 uh yeah just thanks so much for your journey um tell lucy thank you for letting her husband leave

02:27:59.340 while she's pregnant and letting you escape.

02:28:02.420 And yeah, dude, we'll be keeping tabs. 0.56

02:28:06.180 And we want to donate to your friend's charity.

02:28:08.980 Amazing.

02:28:09.560 For his mother.

02:28:10.560 It's called Lori.

02:28:11.920 Love Like Lori Legacy.

02:28:13.620 Love Like Lori Legacy.

02:28:14.960 Yeah.

02:28:15.200 Okay, cool.

02:28:15.620 Thank you.

02:28:15.920 Yeah, you bet.

02:28:16.460 We'll keep in touch about it and we'll donate to it right here.

02:28:19.980 That's what it is, lovelikelory.com.

02:28:24.040 Living the Legacy run.

02:28:25.180 And when is the run?

02:28:25.940 So this run, the website's a little bit outdated,

02:28:28.700 but you can still donate to it.

02:28:30.600 But this was the third charity one we did,

02:28:33.260 which was a 500-mile run from Springfield, Illinois to St. Paul.

02:28:37.860 Okay.

02:28:39.680 I'll be in the van, but...

02:28:42.860 This happened in 2022.

02:28:45.040 Oh, it did?

02:28:45.560 Yes, yes, yes, yes.

02:28:46.660 Excellent.

02:28:47.020 Got it, got it, got it.

02:28:48.540 Well, Lori, we miss you and grateful to think about you today

02:28:52.260 and say your name out loud.

02:28:54.100 And, yep, Mark Dattle, thanks so much, brother.

02:28:57.040 Thank you to you.

02:28:57.540 Yeah, man.

02:28:58.060 Now I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.

02:29:04.180 I must be cornerstone.

02:29:09.100 Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found.

02:29:14.920 I can feel it in my bones, but it's gonna take...

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This Past Weekend with Theo Von - September 01, 2026

#680 - Ultramarathoner Mark Dowdle

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