This Past Weekend with Theo Von - #681 - Ex-Counterfeiter Arthur Williams Jr.

00:00:00.000 He was one of the most prolific counterfeiters in America,

00:00:03.980 printing over $10 million in fake currency.

00:00:07.540 He spent 12 years in prison for his crimes,

00:00:10.400 but now he's out and he's telling his story.

00:00:14.320 And what a story it is, man.

00:00:17.220 We're going to hear about it all,

00:00:19.000 and we're going to hear about where he's at today.

00:00:21.680 We really got into it.

00:00:23.620 Today's guest is Mr. Art Williams.

00:00:30.000 Yeah, dude, my friends were texting me the full moon, about the full moon yesterday.

00:00:48.600 Yeah, it's a partial lunar today.

00:00:50.620 Yeah, well, they're like, go look at the moon, you know?

00:00:52.740 Yeah.

00:00:52.960 And I feel like it's, I wonder if the moon feels embarrassed because everybody's looking at it at the same time.

00:00:57.020 That's what I start to think, you know?

00:00:58.540 Like if everybody was looking at me at the same time,

00:01:00.720 like I would just feel so embarrassed, I feel like.

00:01:03.020 Yeah, well, sometimes it feels like that.

00:01:04.680 Yeah.

00:01:05.020 But I look at the moon like a mirror.

00:01:06.880 Yeah?

00:01:07.320 Yeah, reflection, right?

00:01:08.820 Even last night in the room that you got me,

00:01:10.480 hey, that room is dope.

00:01:11.500 I got the dopest city view.

00:01:12.940 Oh, nice, dude.

00:01:13.400 I woke up at like two in the morning

00:01:14.760 and the moon was just looking at me.

00:01:16.180 Hey.

00:01:16.740 Wow.

00:01:17.220 Oh, that's a peeping Tom, man.

00:01:18.860 Yeah, it was peeping on me.

00:01:20.260 Yeah.

00:01:20.460 The moon was a peeping Tom last night.

00:01:22.320 Because the curtains were open, right?

00:01:23.800 And it was just sitting right there looking down.

00:01:25.540 I'm like, whoa.

00:01:26.340 I don't blame it, man.

00:01:28.220 art williams dude we met uh in chicago at the gibson's restaurant yeah we met at the viagra

00:01:36.380 triangle yeah dude but uh there we are yeah there we are but dude yeah thanks for thanks so much for

00:01:42.660 coming in so for just for our listeners who don't know so in a past life you you you were a

00:01:46.920 counterfeiter yeah printed money printed money not for the feds either no no yeah for yourself

00:01:52.320 for myself yeah that's what i like bro hey we need more of that for sure now right oh dude i

00:01:58.100 I think especially, look, if the government's just going to print it for themselves.

00:02:00.920 Yeah, well, now they're going digital.

00:02:02.540 They're going to print it through the digital coin, which is going to be even more trippy.

00:02:06.160 Right, and I think, yeah, and we're going to get into some of that, dude.

00:02:08.640 I want to talk about some of those things.

00:02:10.000 But, yeah, no, I printed money, man.

00:02:12.420 When the $19,600 bill came out, they said that it was impossible to replicate,

00:02:18.120 and I was about, I don't know, I was probably like 24, 25.

00:02:22.760 And so I said, man, I'm going to replicate it.

00:02:25.560 I think I could.

00:02:26.220 and my story goes back a little further

00:02:28.440 because I grew up in the south side of Chicago

00:02:30.080 yeah take me there like looking back are you able to see

00:02:32.360 any things that made you think okay I'm gonna head in this

00:02:34.300 direction kind of like was you doing early crime

00:02:36.540 or whatever I was doing a lot of crimes

00:02:38.260 yeah early you know when so when

00:02:40.340 my dad early bird gets the wallet and that's

00:02:42.440 true though well we get the coins because

00:02:44.320 I'd hit the meters oh yeah yeah the

00:02:46.320 meters on the side of the hostage street

00:02:47.760 so that was like my first crime when

00:02:50.020 my dad left us my mom was 0.99

00:02:52.300 she dealt with mental illness she was

00:02:54.180 diagnosed bipolar

00:02:55.460 um so she does you know she had to take lithium you know and she didn't take it you know well

00:03:00.880 once a year she would go into the hospital right and they'd have to get the levels back up and

00:03:04.560 they put us in foster home right so my youth growing so when my dad took off and we ended

00:03:10.380 up homeless and then ended up in the projects on the south side right by White Sox Park um

00:03:15.400 you know it was uh I remember because we you know you're on well my mom was on welfare she wasn't

00:03:22.100 working for us it was i came home from school it was cold i come into the the house and my mom's

00:03:28.720 in the kitchen smoking and um would she smoke them dorals or whatever i she used to roll her own 0.93

00:03:35.080 yeah my mom used to buy big bags of tobacco and she'd be there all day and midwestern she's a 0.99

00:03:40.780 hard worker oh yeah no my mom just rolled but but she was there smoking and she was crying and she

00:03:45.560 go and i asked why she was crying she said we had no food in the house so i opened up the fridge and

00:03:49.800 was empty right i was about 12 at that time we had probably been living there almost maybe like

00:03:56.020 nine months to a year so i've already got a taste of the streets you know and uh so i grabbed my

00:04:01.080 brother my little brother we ran outside and while while i'm walking down hoss's street and i was

00:04:05.800 right on 31st and hoss that's where the projects that i grew up in so it's like south side they

00:04:09.820 call it the low end okay but anything like under 55th is like the low end these are just all

00:04:14.740 chicago street terms i'm telling you right now right yeah and uh maybe i'll take you over there

00:04:19.340 one day yeah yeah yeah no that's cool so anyway yeah so that was so we're hitting i'm hitting the

00:04:24.500 meters walking down holliston and i'm hitting the meters but as i'm an angry kid i'm not thinking

00:04:29.300 about you know like i don't know what to do but as i'm hitting them i could hear the change ringing

00:04:33.680 and so i figured there was money in there so you're just walking down the street hitting them

00:04:37.620 with a stick or something no with my fist you know how you just snap you know hitting it everyone

00:04:42.040 because there's a meter like every 20 feet right for sure so i'm just cracking it you know just

00:04:46.040 like as a little kid man you know yeah but then i start hearing the jingling jing jing jing jing

00:04:50.120 you know like it's money right you you bing like the little thing goes off and uh and so i start

00:04:56.300 playing with it so this is with this is what god gave me the gift he gave me is to figure things

00:05:00.360 out okay puzzles money yeah meters you know right whatever's going on you're gonna figure it out

00:05:07.500 art right whatever the whatever it is my brain just like it wants to dissect it right just

00:05:12.900 but early on it was just the meters i wanted to get into the meter right so so i went in the alley

00:05:17.380 i made i made this little metal piece that allowed me to to to twist the little pins there were two

00:05:21.980 little pins on it and if you could get them to go straight up you could pop it out and there was

00:05:26.200 always maybe like 10 15 dollars of quarters in it so you'd hit like five or six and all of a sudden

00:05:31.600 you got 100 and 100 back then was something yeah it's a lot of money i still love 100 right like

00:05:35.760 the 100 is my number man you know what i'm saying yeah but so so we hit it i we hit it for like me

00:05:41.540 and my bro hit for like 87 we went to tony supermarket and uh me and my me and my bro are

00:05:46.760 just just putting stuff we're all excited right oh yeah and we get up there and the big tiny looks

00:05:51.780 down he's like you guys got money we're kids yeah like and we had a bag it was in a bag like a little

00:05:56.520 jewels bag or something we just this we got money and he looked the change he goes yeah that's money

00:06:00.760 right and so he started counting it was it was like 86 bucks we get home this is what was awesome

00:06:07.140 When we walked in the door, my mom was still, you know, kind of in her depressed mode.

00:06:11.500 She hadn't really moved yet.

00:06:12.740 But when she seen the groceries, she lit up, ran and hugged us.

00:06:16.300 She's like, where'd you get these?

00:06:17.320 She probably thought some church gave it to us or something, you know.

00:06:20.120 And I'm like, we got it, mom.

00:06:22.340 You know, she goes, well, how'd you get it out of the meters?

00:06:24.720 She's like, well, how'd you get it out of the meters?

00:06:26.080 I said, we broke into them.

00:06:28.120 And she goes, go up to your room right now. 1.00

00:06:31.220 Her demeanor went from happy to pissed like that, you know, like real quick. 0.94

00:06:37.140 so me and my brother go upstairs she comes up after that and she's like um she's like look

00:06:42.920 i don't want you stealing for money god will provide the way i said god did provide the way

00:06:46.580 he showed me how to open it right because i'll i believe there's divineness in what i do like

00:06:51.280 whatever my mind is able to do there's there's there's there's a creative there's something

00:06:55.300 outside of me that i could tap into that that gives me a force i call it force field right

00:07:00.660 i got well at that time did you feel like you were doing it for a good cause too for my mom

00:07:04.260 for my brother for my sister what are you gonna do yeah man they gotta eat you know like and that

00:07:08.100 started it right then once once that happened and it didn't stop i'd hit the meters whenever i needed

00:07:13.900 it you know then then i started hanging out with the gang so like in chicago the gang violence was

00:07:18.800 real strong at that point yeah it's like mid 80s early 90s guns are hitting the street right it

00:07:24.800 went from it went from uh like at first it was like uh dance crews like break dancing yeah and

00:07:32.020 So the breakdancers turned into the gangs pretty much, right?

00:07:34.740 So you had the breakdancing moments in Chicago

00:07:37.220 and probably New York and L.A., probably everywhere.

00:07:39.780 And then when the breakdancing kind of faded out,

00:07:41.860 all those cats turned into Latin kings or disciples. 0.82

00:07:45.660 I mean, GDs have always been there, right? 0.66

00:07:47.900 What's GDs? 0.66

00:07:48.840 Gangs Disciples.

00:07:49.880 Okay.

00:07:50.140 Yeah, they've always been before.

00:07:51.260 And all these gangs have been there forever,

00:07:53.360 but the breakdancing, when it broke out,

00:07:55.300 that's when a lot of numbers filled it.

00:07:57.440 What do you think caused that breakdancing

00:07:58.740 to kind of dissipate over there?

00:08:00.300 I think because they started fighting, right?

00:08:03.000 So at first it was just like, ah, right?

00:08:05.260 You know, grab my nuts and put it in your face, right?

00:08:08.080 And then they started beefing.

00:08:09.560 And then when they started beefing, you know, physical just always enhances, even like wars.

00:08:15.400 Yeah, there's an escalation.

00:08:16.580 There's always escalation with it, man, right?

00:08:18.540 So if it's a, you know, you step on my toe, then I smack you in the face,

00:08:21.640 and you punch me in mine, and then boom, boom, boom, boom, right?

00:08:23.600 Yeah, that's always a way to do it.

00:08:25.460 Yeah, so anyway, but that's what I think happened.

00:08:27.280 And I think one said, you know, there's just the beefs and then the guns.

00:08:31.280 That was the thing that really, for me, that sticks in my memory harsher than anything.

00:08:36.520 Because I've been shot.

00:08:37.800 And I've had friends killed.

00:08:39.780 One right there, you know, got shot in the head.

00:08:42.480 With you?

00:08:43.200 Yeah.

00:08:43.660 We were all out there and we heard one shot and poof, hit him in the head and he dropped.

00:08:47.820 Right?

00:08:48.020 I got hit in the side.

00:08:48.960 And were you out there like with the gang?

00:08:50.820 Yeah.

00:08:51.180 Because you were just out in the streets?

00:08:52.380 Yeah.

00:08:53.480 Everyone had their corner.

00:08:54.740 Got it.

00:08:54.960 We had 32nd in Lithuanica. 0.99

00:08:56.960 The Italians, they had Armored Park, 33rd and Shields. 1.00

00:08:59.400 Latin Kings had 33rd and Morgan. 0.99

00:09:02.140 The Spanish Chancellors had 29th and Wallace, right? 0.77

00:09:05.400 And who was your favorite gang, looking back?

00:09:07.040 I mean, the one I was with, right?

00:09:08.740 Type shit.

00:09:09.340 I was a disciple, man.

00:09:10.500 Of course.

00:09:11.260 Shit, bro.

00:09:11.680 That's a good answer, bro.

00:09:13.040 I ran the streets real hard from breaking into cars to garages to stealing cars.

00:09:18.320 It just escalated.

00:09:20.360 So you were into crime then.

00:09:21.440 That was your thing.

00:09:22.520 Well, it was to survive, right?

00:09:23.820 Like, I didn't ever look at, like, crime in the sense, and even when I got older, in the sense of, like, I imagined that it would make me, like, a rich drug lord, right?

00:09:34.260 Like, I never had that in my mind that stealing a car is going to, you know, cause me to have something great.

00:09:40.900 Like, one day I'm going to have a dealership or something.

00:09:42.240 Yeah, I'm not going to have a dealership.

00:09:43.140 Exactly, right?

00:09:43.840 So I always fought against wanting to do it, right?

00:09:48.240 And then when the money came, though, so I ended up getting in trouble, stealing a car.

00:09:53.140 One of my mom's friends came up to get me because they could sign you out at the police station.

00:09:57.760 And on the way back, he was just telling me, like, you know, what are you doing, man?

00:10:01.760 You're smart in this.

00:10:02.620 You know, I see how you are, and you love your mama, and, you know, what's going on?

00:10:06.660 And he brought me into his world.

00:10:08.140 Who was saying this?

00:10:09.660 An older gentleman.

00:10:10.900 I nicknamed him Pete, called Pete Da Vinci because, you know, he's telling me crazy stories about Da Vinci.

00:10:15.840 Wear a little hat, tying guy.

00:10:17.080 Okay, got it.

00:10:17.560 so we're walking back me and peter walking back and he's just you know telling me he goes hey

00:10:21.360 listen i'm gonna take it i'm gonna show you how to make some money and and be quiet about it right

00:10:25.640 that was the thing that was the difference about what i was doing it was loud the gangs was loud

00:10:29.600 the guns the stealing the breaking windows right to get in the cars right he he wanted to show me

00:10:34.960 how to be quiet and make money and and so for me with my dad leaving he was kind of like the first

00:10:41.200 one the first guy that like i i felt like a not like a father ship you know like like a little

00:10:46.980 bit of a fatherhood too right oh yeah dude when you're young if somebody comes into your life

00:10:50.640 and pays you some attention or hey this is another thing hey let me show you how to do something

00:10:55.200 that's a huge thing i just didn't think it was gonna be print money right like i didn't know

00:10:59.320 oh dude i mean i hate to say look yeah i hate to say you got lucky because some guys are like

00:11:05.820 let me teach you how to play tennis you know let me teach you how to touch yourself or whatever

00:11:09.800 but you got lucky bro i did i really did and my whole life has been kind of like that too

00:11:15.640 i get in places that people just don't get into 100 i really do man it's like da vinci

00:11:21.580 hanging with the kings i don't know how it happens man just i just okay here i like portaled in you

00:11:27.780 right and like here we are in the next chapter of this fairy tale i love it i love it that's what

00:11:32.000 makes life alive though right oh i agree yeah i think it's so interesting that he's teaching you

00:11:36.280 how to how to do something quiet quiet that's what it was all about right and and and as a

00:11:41.680 counterfeiter you learn to become a ghost I mean even now I'm still a ghost you know I still live

00:11:46.480 like that just because it's how I was trained you know and um but yeah so he he takes me to his shop

00:11:52.660 he had a shop over by armor park and you know had one of them old elevators that went down into the

00:11:57.460 basement stuff and he had his printer over here he has light burner over here he had his plate maker

00:12:01.840 over here where he did his ink where he held his paper I mean it was just it was fascinating as a

00:12:06.760 kid i'm like 15 16 man you know like here and i am with an old gangster you know and as a kid in

00:12:11.860 that neighborhood because my neighborhood was was where mayor daly was from right bridgeport they

00:12:17.720 call it where mayor daly was from yeah mayor daly the old daly richard daly and all the dailies

00:12:21.940 that's that neighborhood you know got it and so you have the irish on 37th you have the italians

00:12:27.560 on 31st you got the chinatown over on 22nd you got pilsen which is over off 18th and then and 0.80

00:12:34.060 where i lived was like the hosh posh of everyone but poor right we were all just poor right but 0.94

00:12:38.480 there was a little puerto rican a little thai and a little little mutt you know like everything right 0.97

00:12:42.820 so for a kid in the projects to make it to the italian side was huge that was like that was like 1.00

00:12:49.500 a hand up man yeah you know like that's what everybody wanted you know you didn't want to be

00:12:54.400 a car thief right you know you didn't want to you wanted to be with them because you know what they

00:12:58.280 did yeah they at least were they were organized they were organized man and so for for me to be

00:13:02.720 the projects and be pulled out of it right that was like winning the lottery yeah you know it's

00:13:06.540 like winning the lottery so you know he took me in he started showing me you know i would help

00:13:10.360 carry him carry the he was old so he needed someone anyway because the paper's heavy ink cans

00:13:14.760 the you know have to move the equipment around you got to keep everything clean right it's constant 0.89

00:13:19.260 and that ink is shit man i've had it on my hand and then went and took a piss and man i'm burning 0.88

00:13:23.000 my piece you know really oh that was crazy yeah my paint it was like green for like a week and 0.88

00:13:27.340 It wasn't gonorrhea.

00:13:28.360 But it's hair.

00:13:28.700 It was ink.

00:13:29.620 Yeah, it was not sand.

00:13:31.060 But it's getting darker.

00:13:32.180 You know what I'm saying?

00:13:32.760 It was getting darker.

00:13:33.240 Win some, lose some, cuz.

00:13:34.800 I did, man.

00:13:35.620 It was, you know, yeah, so.

00:13:37.320 What was some of the machinery that Pete was using to make, to counterfeit?

00:13:41.140 So at that time, it was still the little-faced 100, right?

00:13:45.080 There was a time when the 100 had a tiny face on it, right?

00:13:47.900 Okay.

00:13:48.440 We're going way back, 1985.

00:13:50.180 So those were the ones he made.

00:13:51.460 And they were a lot easier because there was no watermark.

00:13:54.820 There was no shifting ink.

00:13:56.000 there was you just just a visual okay and so he was making those and he was using the old

00:14:01.360 offset technology so it was he had a b dick he had a b dick uh two color right what is that a b 0.78

00:14:08.180 dick two color it's a paint no it's a it's a press it's a printing press it's it's yeah i gotta send 0.87

00:14:13.140 you a picture they're they're awesome man they're like we'll bring one up right here it's called a 0.64

00:14:16.960 b yeah look at like a two color a b dick yeah there you go right and so so he that's what he

00:14:23.060 used wow and that looks kind of advanced for the times huh oh no well i mean it was an offset press

00:14:28.660 ben franklin invented the press like look at ben franklin's press his first one yeah ben franklin's

00:14:34.880 first press he's the one who invented it ben franklin invented all kinds of things so there

00:14:39.160 was different machines you asked about the machines so you had a machine to take a photo

00:14:42.920 right you would take put the bill up there you take a photo of it right and then take it down

00:14:47.380 then there was another machine it was uh it made the the negatives right so you would go and you'd

00:14:51.960 make the negatives with the bill.

00:14:53.700 And we would always do three bills, right?

00:14:56.160 Because these offsets,

00:14:58.420 they were best with like eight and a half by 11 paper.

00:15:02.320 And you would take the photos of the bill?

00:15:04.120 Of the bill.

00:15:04.660 Of a real bill?

00:15:05.300 Of a real bill.

00:15:05.920 Okay, got it.

00:15:06.500 Yeah.

00:15:06.740 And then we would take it

00:15:07.800 and we put it into a negative form

00:15:09.160 and put through the machine that makes the negative.

00:15:11.620 And then that's when you do your serial numbers.

00:15:13.320 We take this red tape

00:15:14.300 and we knock out the serial numbers.

00:15:17.160 Because that was one of the hardest things to change, right?

00:15:19.960 Because the numbers is what get people caught back in the old days, right?

00:15:24.600 So you'd mark out the numbers, and then you'd make the plate.

00:15:28.220 You'd put the negative in the machine.

00:15:29.880 It'd burn the plate.

00:15:30.540 Then you'd put the plate onto the press, and then you'd make the ink,

00:15:32.760 and then you'd run your paper, right?

00:15:34.340 It's fascinating.

00:15:35.540 I love it.

00:15:36.100 I really do.

00:15:36.940 I love it.

00:15:37.520 Well, it's a piece of art.

00:15:38.340 Yeah, and I still got a press, you know, and I sit there,

00:15:40.700 and I lay next to it and reminisce.

00:15:42.440 Oh, yeah.

00:15:43.900 But nevertheless, yeah, I'll show it to you one day.

00:15:46.340 So, yeah, so that's that process.

00:15:48.400 but with me what happened and just to interrupt you real quick how long did that process take

00:15:52.300 well for him he could do it quick so I had to learn because he never let me do some of the

00:15:56.720 things like he never let me like uh take the photos he didn't let me you know burn the plates

00:16:01.500 I would be there I would move stuff for him or be cleaning but there was a lot of things I didn't

00:16:06.540 get to do but because I got to see what he used I replicated that part first so when the bill came

00:16:13.560 out I went back and started thinking about all the things that he was doing you mean when the

00:16:18.040 1996 one yeah one hundred dollar bill came out when that came out because that bill came out and

00:16:22.500 they said that it was unable to be duplicated is that right duplicate yeah they said that all the

00:16:27.600 security features there was a watermark a strip uh fluorescence on it there were uh shifting ink

00:16:33.980 there was micro printing you got the mornay so there's a moray which if you try to scan it in

00:16:40.000 a present scanner the lines around his head will get real wavy right there's all kinds of neat

00:16:45.300 things in there oh really so if you try to scan that in like a just a scanner to like scan it

00:16:49.580 over to just even send a picture to somebody the lines get wavy in his lines get wavy in his head

00:16:53.600 it's called a moray right interesting yeah no there's a lot of cool things on it it says here

00:16:58.660 six features uh yeah watermark a second faint image of benjamin franklin to the right of the

00:17:03.920 portrait visible when held to light yeah uh embedded security thread a vertical strip embedded

00:17:08.900 in the paper visible when held to light it reads usa 100 i remember when that came out bro

00:17:14.200 UV reactive thread under ultraviolet light.

00:17:17.760 The security thread glows red.

00:17:19.960 So that's when you take the money to strip club 1.00

00:17:21.800 and you throw it at the girl 0.93

00:17:23.240 and the line will glow yellow, red, or green.

00:17:26.100 Got it.

00:17:26.500 Whatever denomination it is.

00:17:28.000 You want it to grow.

00:17:28.880 I would want it to glow red, right?

00:17:30.680 Red was the 100 color.

00:17:31.560 It was?

00:17:32.000 Oh, I'd want it to glow.

00:17:33.100 What was green?

00:17:33.760 Ones?

00:17:34.240 No, I think that's 20s, I think.

00:17:37.380 Okay, I'll do 20s.

00:17:38.320 You can do 20s? 1.00

00:17:39.040 Help the ladies out. 1.00

00:17:40.040 Yeah. 0.97

00:17:40.840 Ultraviolet light.

00:17:41.960 The security thread glows red.

00:17:43.420 uh color shifting ink the 100 in the lower right front corner shifts from green to black as you

00:17:49.220 tilt it and now then now it's purple to gold got it no one micro printing micro printing tiny usa

00:17:55.460 100 printing included on franklin's lapel and in the lower left numeral area and then fine line

00:18:01.020 concentric line printing intricate lines around the portrait and on the reverse that ordinary

00:18:06.580 copiers struggle to reproduce accurately the ordinary copiers it makes it the like wavy got

00:18:12.100 it but listen to this one read that next line the 1996 note does not have the blue 3d security

00:18:17.460 ribbon or the color changing bell in the inkwell those arrived on the redesigned 100 note introduced

00:18:23.440 later in 2015 you know why that bill was made because of me i'm sitting next to him it's called

00:18:29.500 visual physics right you know it's so funny they let the bill out right when i got out of prison

00:18:34.420 oh i thought they were trying to rub it in my face you're doing on purpose oh yeah they had to

00:18:38.860 because it it was supposed to come out in 13 or no it was supposed to come out like 11 or 10

00:18:43.500 somewhere around there i got out in 13 2013 but i'm watching in the paper there i'm reading in

00:18:48.280 the paper and matt you know this new bill coming out right and and uh then when i got out and i

00:18:52.860 seen that purple line i just went nuts i'm like well so what happened is they wrote a book about

00:18:58.300 me called the art of making money like way back it was like 2005 and so and then they put me in

00:19:04.340 rolling stone magazine called me the best counterfeiter ever really yeah it was awesome

00:19:08.380 right i mean i went to prison for seven years so it wasn't too awesome but it was still cool that

00:19:13.500 it got recorded you know and uh but then everyone wanted to be like me so you started having guys

00:19:18.960 in california reading the book now granted i only there was 12 steps to the whole thing i only gave

00:19:24.560 them like five right and so i didn't for one i would never give my recipe to anybody to how to

00:19:29.940 counterfeit yeah but when i was doing the book i was like you know if i give these five even if they

00:19:34.420 tried to do it it wouldn't come out like mine right because i don't want a bunch of people

00:19:38.400 making money like me and then i'm getting in trouble right so i just left a lot of parts out

00:19:42.420 but a lot of people tried and started creating their own money did anybody ever reach out to you

00:19:47.460 and say hey do you want to get back in the game oh they do now on my facebook and instagram man

00:19:51.880 you know like i get a little weirded out you know because i get that happens all the time all the

00:19:56.220 time have you ever just even met up with somebody just to see what it was like like what's this

00:19:59.220 person even talking about no no no if somebody comes at me like that now like i'm an artist i

00:20:04.020 got a great life man you know i'm saying like and even back then man i'd probably trunk them right

00:20:08.460 just for coming to me without knowing me right yeah so like yeah anyway yeah my my neighborhood

00:20:13.660 we trunk they would trunk people not me did put them in a trunk yeah put them in a trunk um but

00:20:18.820 anyway okay so take me back to art you're working with pete yeah are you able to learn pete's method

00:20:23.680 or or what happens there so so when the time i was with him like i said mostly i was just moving

00:20:29.100 things for him learn how to mix inks he didn't he didn't ever let me do any of the real heavy

00:20:33.480 stuff like the brain work right okay got it so i got to watch his what he did you know that's how

00:20:38.360 i learned what he you know i'd watch him do the plates i'd watch him do the the photography i'd

00:20:43.180 watch him you know mix his inks right how he'd weigh it right he'd put the ink on the little

00:20:47.160 scale like drugs right oh so you had to have a certain amount of ink on the bill yeah yeah he

00:20:50.960 had yeah everything even the bill had to weigh a gram right because drug dealers like to weigh

00:20:55.400 money but nevertheless so but then pete god i want a gram yeah yeah so anyway for like you know we

00:21:00.920 did i i stayed around for about nine months to a year and then he ended up disappearing he was

00:21:05.660 gone never came into the diner no more wasn't at the shop you know and in my neighborhood that

00:21:10.720 happened to people do you know what happened to him no no i don't i don't i just he just never

00:21:16.100 came back you know if you had to guess what happened and what do you think happened i hope

00:21:19.340 he got away like that's what i think oh you think somebody might have been on him a bit

00:21:23.080 oh well that's in that in that world back then especially man like people in my neighborhood

00:21:27.440 disappeared that that really happened but did you see pete being paranoid about stuff like did he

00:21:31.780 also have some like things that he had done like were there things he set up at his place or his

00:21:35.500 house to like so the one thing about counterfeiters that that that he did not so not only did he did

00:21:40.820 i get to see what he did but we talked a lot right i mean that was the coolest thing i think about

00:21:46.680 the whole experience is just getting getting to hear his thoughts on different things which

00:21:50.680 expanded mine right which made me grow right you know so it was more than just learning how to print

00:21:55.900 money but it was actually learning how to use my mind because up until that point I had it you know

00:22:00.140 and and so when when he when he did disappear like it was hard on me man you know I'd go over

00:22:06.580 there I'd be looking in the window seeing if he's around you know and you never heard from him again

00:22:11.040 no no and so the thing about a counterfeiter is the biggest thing is they teach you how to be

00:22:16.540 quiet. They teach you how to disappear. They teach you how to not exist. They teach you

00:22:21.300 how to, you know, that's the thing that was so awesome when I later down the road became

00:22:26.860 a master at it is I could, I could go anywhere. I could go to Florida. I could go to New York.

00:22:31.960 I could go to LA. I could go to any country and quietly go somewhere and not know anybody and

00:22:38.040 talk to anybody and produce money. It was the most, it was the most liberating feeling you can

00:22:44.760 have to have that ability to walk in with with blank paper and then turn it into to suitcase

00:22:52.000 cash but but you learn how to do it quietly and so for him when he disappeared in my mind I'm

00:22:57.440 thinking you know he had to go right the heat's on him right and and and boom he's gone right

00:23:03.520 I didn't want to think he was dead even though like that's a high that's a possibility too because

00:23:08.760 you know here's the thing like whenever you're dealing with large amounts of money every it's

00:23:13.080 not like the movies man you get over 50 000 you get over 100 000 your life's in danger yeah okay

00:23:18.380 it don't need to be 500 000 it don't need to be a million i've seen people get killed for 5 000

00:23:24.060 so so in that world you're literally printing like i so you asked if people have tried to get

00:23:29.920 me to do money while i'm free no because i don't even entertain it right right but on the streets

00:23:36.520 yeah there were times where there were there were different you know crews that would hear about me

00:23:41.200 and then they literally look at you like a printing press right you this guy's atm yeah yeah this is

00:23:47.520 an atm man so so that was the thing that i had to watch for when back on the day you know that's

00:23:52.540 scary and that's why you have to be a ghost that's that's why you have to be a ghost because

00:23:55.980 you can't be predictable you can't i never even now nobody knows where i live man like i don't

00:24:01.140 let wherever i lay my head man it's top secret top secret even my gallery you know by appointment

00:24:06.280 doors ain't open can't come in there the best business ideas come from people who are passionate

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00:25:20.900 when the bathroom has two handicapped stalls so you don't feel bad taking one of them or when you

00:25:28.020 wear last year's summer shorts for the first time this season and find a five dollar bill in the

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00:26:38.900 So just to do a timeline recap.

00:26:41.040 So you grow up in this neighborhood in Chicago.

00:26:44.560 It's a hectic environment.

00:26:46.000 You get into stuff on the streets.

00:26:47.320 You guys are out there kind of banging, stealing this, stealing that.

00:26:50.580 Kind of petty crime stuff, maybe a little bit aggressive.

00:26:53.120 You meet Pete.

00:26:53.940 You kind of go under his wing as this sort of like not exactly an apprentice,

00:26:57.840 but you're there with him all the time.

00:26:59.740 His helper.

00:26:59.960 yeah his helper you're watching you're seeing what he's doing and also he's kind of having

00:27:04.120 conversations with you that are helping you kind of elevate and expand yeah that's how you even

00:27:07.400 think about the world mentally okay and now Pete disappears and you're back uh out on the streets

00:27:12.160 and you guys start getting into some heavier stuff Pete yeah like you know when he when he left I

00:27:16.460 went back actually when when that whole situation he took off I went back to the streets I started

00:27:21.600 getting into the gangs and I started getting into you know just some real heavy shit you know and

00:27:27.200 we started robbing drug dealers we dress up like cops we had the cop cars you know really like i

00:27:33.040 said the drug dealing was a real big thing so i didn't like to sell drugs like i had a lot of

00:27:37.320 friends that did but i didn't like to see what it did to people you know that's why i like the

00:27:41.320 counterfeiting right because it was like i didn't feel like i was really hurting anyone you know

00:27:45.000 i'm not stealing i don't like to steal and the drug part like i i seen what it did but

00:27:49.620 but we would so we started robbing them right and and one of my dudes he um like he what my son so

00:27:55.900 my first son, his mom's a cop, right? So like, yeah, right. That's a whole nother lane, but we

00:28:02.500 won't go down that one, but it, it, it, it allowed, you know, a lot of my guys, we had friends that

00:28:08.640 were cops, so we could get uniforms, we could get badges, you know, I always loved a cop car and I

00:28:14.360 had a nice one, right? I always had a real nice one, like, and I loved it because I could move

00:28:18.220 through sea, I'd wear glasses and, you know, make my hair to the side and I look like a cop, you

00:28:22.380 know yeah but but we started we you know we'd start robbing the drug dealers the ones like out

00:28:26.760 in the suburbs and what basically what would happen these guys from the suburbs would come in

00:28:31.060 and they'd like to hang out at the clubs downtown they want to flash their money to the girls we'd

00:28:35.740 have girls that were working for us so we'd have girls in those clubs and be like hey this guy 1.00

00:28:39.780 that he's doing this this and that i'm like okay cool and she wouldn't sleep with them but she'd

00:28:44.820 go home with them become friends hang out with them finesse them and then we'd come and right

00:28:50.780 And we'd be like, we'd have fests on, guns, like legit, like dressed like cops.

00:28:57.320 Yeah, dude.

00:28:58.080 But yeah, no, and we did that.

00:28:59.260 And then it got dangerous.

00:29:00.140 It did start getting dangerous because we started getting stupid.

00:29:03.280 Like, you know, at first it was, and that's how-

00:29:05.580 What, y'all throw like a police ball or whatever?

00:29:07.080 Like, I mean, how stupid do you guys get?

00:29:09.100 Well, that's stupid like that.

00:29:10.560 Were y'all playing softball against the fire department or something?

00:29:13.040 Like, what were you guys doing?

00:29:14.100 Yeah, no, no, no.

00:29:14.940 But we were like robbing more dangerous elements.

00:29:20.640 Okay, got it.

00:29:21.120 So it escalated.

00:29:21.820 It escalated.

00:29:22.300 Like all crime.

00:29:23.200 Like all crime escalates. 0.88

00:29:24.460 You go from, oh, we're going to hit these white suburban kids from out there. 0.81

00:29:28.000 They think they're cool.

00:29:29.360 And now we get our balls so big.

00:29:31.360 We're like, oh, we're going to hit that cat on 18th Street that got 10 guns around him.

00:29:35.340 Oh, yeah.

00:29:35.920 Right?

00:29:36.220 So you go from like, you know, it just escalated.

00:29:39.680 It's escalation ladder.

00:29:40.740 And then I got shot.

00:29:41.660 I got shot in my side.

00:29:43.600 And there was a lot of things that happened that caused me to go to my next phase.

00:29:48.660 Okay, got it.

00:29:49.120 But we did for that little brief, you know, there was, I guess, for about three years, maybe, I was just running hard on the street, you know.

00:29:57.940 And who shot you? 0.81

00:29:59.300 Latin King. Latin King shot me, tried to kill me. Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:30:03.580 Did he spare your life?

00:30:05.040 No, hell no. Yeah, he tried to kill me. Yeah.

00:30:07.480 No, I was walking home from a party, like, two in the morning.

00:30:11.220 I'm walking through a basketball court, and I hear two guys behind me.

00:30:14.540 i looked they got they got handkerchiefs on and um and i thought it was my dudes from the party

00:30:19.540 and so i'm like hey man take the handkerchiefs off man you know you're getting me nervous

00:30:23.200 and they're like getting you nervous and boom they pulled out the pistols and just started just

00:30:26.800 boom boom boom boom boom i turned around i took off running put my head between my legs i could

00:30:31.320 feel the bullets just right and uh and then i got hit and i fell to the ground right as i was almost

00:30:38.620 around the corner from the projects you know i got hit and i stayed on i when i hit the ground

00:30:43.760 I was just going to stay on the ground

00:30:45.020 and figure they thought they killed me and they'd take off.

00:30:47.820 But when I hit the ground, I looked back,

00:30:49.380 they were running up on me.

00:30:50.680 They were going to try to dome shot me, you know?

00:30:53.400 And something real spiritual happened at that moment.

00:30:58.860 Like I felt something grab me from underneath my armpits, you know,

00:31:03.000 and just kind of like lift me off the ground.

00:31:05.640 And I ran like five blocks to 31st and Halston.

00:31:09.400 I was on 32nd and Lutheran.

00:31:10.440 And was you leaking too?

00:31:11.820 I was leaking, yeah.

00:31:13.340 You plug it up? Did you plug up the wound with like a...

00:31:15.840 There was a Chicago Tribune guy that was helping me.

00:31:19.160 He might have...

00:31:19.640 You put some newspaper in it or something?

00:31:20.580 I had to put a newspaper on me.

00:31:22.020 Well, I didn't even know. I didn't even like feel it.

00:31:24.600 It was weird because when I got to 31st and I sat down on the bus stop

00:31:28.260 and I'm like feeling myself, you know, you're all like shaking and stuff.

00:31:32.880 And then I stood back up and I could feel like something on my side.

00:31:36.580 And when I grabbed it, it was just all red and just blood.

00:31:39.680 And I told the Chicago Sun-Time guy, I said,

00:31:42.160 hey, man, I've been hit, man, called ambulance.

00:31:43.960 Damn.

00:31:44.500 Yeah, so then-

00:31:45.200 He was delivering papers?

00:31:46.200 Yeah, delivering papers, yeah.

00:31:47.560 Damn.

00:31:47.840 It was like three in the morning.

00:31:49.240 But after that, that's when I went to Texas.

00:31:51.140 You know, I was like, my mom was like,

00:31:52.400 man, you got to go.

00:31:53.720 You know, I've already had at that point

00:31:55.540 like six of my friends murdered, you know?

00:31:58.140 I'm only like 18, 19 years old, you know?

00:32:01.140 So shit was getting hot down there, huh?

00:32:03.020 Well, the South Side was dangerous back then, man.

00:32:05.100 Like I said, guns hit the street, man.

00:32:06.680 It seemed like everyone had one. 0.63

00:32:08.140 They were called Larsons, L-L-A-R-S-S-E.

00:32:10.200 I mean, it's just-

00:32:10.800 For the type of gun?

00:32:11.640 Yeah.

00:32:12.160 Like right around 90, I'd say like 92, 93.

00:32:17.160 Man, everyone had these things.

00:32:19.300 It was a 22, a 25, and a 380.

00:32:22.200 Yeah, they were like that, the little guns.

00:32:24.900 They were real tiny, like that.

00:32:26.320 22, yeah, that's what we had.

00:32:28.500 Yeah, that's it.

00:32:29.280 Those things flooded the streets, man.

00:32:32.080 That little grocery getter, you think?

00:32:33.500 Yeah, they were a little tiny, man.

00:32:34.620 But 22, 25, 380, and you get them for 50 bucks.

00:32:38.880 And it's almost like they dumped them on the street.

00:32:40.620 and then that's and it just so it went from you know fighting and bats and you know like

00:32:45.860 the old school type to yeah real shit double dragon shit double dragon shit yeah to like

00:32:50.060 everyone having these little peace shooters that killed that's crazy i wouldn't be surprised but i

00:32:55.040 lost six of my friends during that time and uh and so i went to texas my mom said let's get out

00:33:00.740 of here so i ended up going down to texas and when you get down to texas is that where uh your

00:33:05.140 counterfeiting journey kind of continues yeah yeah so when i went down there of course i'm trying to

00:33:09.360 get away from the gang violence and uh but I'm still me you know I'm still a criminal right and

00:33:15.880 so I go down there I start getting with the in with the wrong crowd I get into a little trouble

00:33:21.320 um I go to I go to prison for like two years and uh in a Texas prison those Texas prisons were rough

00:33:28.420 too man wow was it crazy I thought I was in hell but uh when I got out my girl Natalie she picked

00:33:34.360 me up and she took me to a hotel we did the whole you know the whole prison release freedom party

00:33:39.160 right oh yeah sex or whatever sex yeah anyway and um and then we we went to the the first place i

00:33:45.280 wanted to go was to the bookstore because i read a lot i've read thousands of books right and so

00:33:50.340 i wanted a bruce lee book and so she wanted to get me the bruce lee book so we go to the bookstore

00:33:55.080 and she buy we were buying the book and she pays with a hundred the new hundred i hadn't seen it 0.58

00:34:00.040 yet right because i was in prison and and and i'm watching she pays and the and the lady just pulls

00:34:05.780 out a pen and marks it and then puts it in drawer and i'm looking i'm like man already i'm thinking

00:34:12.020 like she didn't even look at the hundred but she just used the marker yeah and i had yeah i just

00:34:16.360 used the marker and that was entrusted fully i was and i'm thinking in my mind i'm like man

00:34:21.740 if somebody figured this part out man you could have a run right and that's where it started right

00:34:27.080 i just got to beat the marker just got to beat the marker right that's the only thing on my mind

00:34:30.860 I just got to beat that because nobody's looking at it.

00:34:33.840 And that's where the quest began, you know.

00:34:37.440 And I'm not even out of prison, like, a couple days,

00:34:41.080 and here I am already thinking about the next crime.

00:34:44.440 That's what's so, like, the criminal mind can be so, like, obsessive and addictive, you know.

00:34:51.940 Like, it really can be.

00:34:52.860 It's kind of an addiction.

00:34:54.000 Oh, for sure, right, especially printing money.

00:34:56.840 Like, the smell of ink even now gets me aroused, you know.

00:34:59.380 like anyway i mean i might use a different word but it makes me like get goosebumps you know yeah

00:35:05.120 yeah the smell of like old candy ink when you open it so anyway so so we start we start the

00:35:10.560 journey i'm and and just and i again here's one of those moments where i just in the you know i got

00:35:15.500 got a little bit blessed or lucky or star fell on my head or whatever is is natalie was was one of

00:35:21.940 the first that was into tech right when the computers were coming out the internet was only

00:35:26.440 and like the libraries and the universities, right?

00:35:31.340 So I would use the internet.

00:35:33.620 At that time, I'd go into the library

00:35:34.900 to look up how they made money.

00:35:37.080 I could go onto the treasury site

00:35:38.420 and they had like educational videos

00:35:40.380 on how they put the money through each step.

00:35:42.800 It was fascinating.

00:35:44.720 You're lying.

00:35:45.420 No, it was, yeah, you could still go.

00:35:47.180 I bet you could still probably look up

00:35:48.520 how the treasury makes money and they'll have videos.

00:35:51.620 But this is early.

00:35:52.800 The videos were slow, but you could see it, right?

00:35:54.800 Right.

00:35:55.000 and that's when i thought about my about pete right about the offset press right and then like 0.89

00:36:00.260 i said i got a little lucky because natalie was a computer genius at the time right she was working

00:36:05.760 for for a tech company to that you know they were calling this is before you know other countries

00:36:12.040 took all the you know the call-in jobs right and um and so i what i did is i combined the old

00:36:18.900 technology and then the new technology together so i created a hybrid right did you have to have

00:36:23.660 conversation with her like hey babe this is what i'm gonna do or ah it slowly led there right like

00:36:28.960 first i'm just trying to just figure it out in my head how this could be done yeah like how do you

00:36:33.740 like ease her into it like just like you're sitting on the couch being like wish wish we

00:36:37.460 wish we had a couple hundreds well no i i didn't ease her into i mean a little bit of an easement

00:36:42.140 but she was ready to go too like she was fascinated how i was thinking right because i'm telling her

00:36:47.260 about when i was young and when i got to learn how to use the old printing presses and then she's

00:36:51.400 telling me about how she's like a technician for all the new stuff and and that's a good point

00:36:56.300 she's already smashing criminals so it's like what are we even talking about she said yeah so

00:37:00.500 anyway she me and her having a place we start to come and form this thing the first thing we had

00:37:05.460 to do was figure out the paper right you can't you know i know how i could get the press i'm looking

00:37:10.000 up you know where to get presses we're calling places so we we could almost get everything we

00:37:14.540 need from the ink to the printers the printers were new so they didn't have none of the secret

00:37:19.140 service software in them, right? The Photoshop was new. All the stuff was new. So that's why

00:37:25.440 credit card scams shot through the roof. That's why checks shot through the roof. People were

00:37:30.040 doing corporate checks because all this equipment that was coming out, there was no safeguards on

00:37:35.320 it. Oh, it was awesome. It wasn't tested. They hadn't really thought that people are going to

00:37:39.060 use this for this yet. Well, yeah, we were using the magnet. They had magnetic printers. You could

00:37:43.400 print the magnetic checks like that was like 96 97 probably looked that up i bet you fraud went

00:37:49.960 through the roof right because you were able to use these machines you know and we used them well

00:37:54.460 we you know she she started looking in how to uh one of the first things we did was change the uh

00:38:00.400 the photoshop program where it wouldn't like if you scanned 100 it had something in there where

00:38:05.340 it would um in 1996 financial institutions faced a dramatic surge in check and credit card fraud

00:38:10.320 Yeah, right.

00:38:10.960 Yeah, that's what happened, man.

00:38:12.180 Driven primarily by the transition.

00:38:13.640 I was a part of it.

00:38:14.280 I raised my hand.

00:38:15.540 Yeah, I was a part of that shit.

00:38:18.280 Driven primarily by the transition into the early digital era

00:38:21.040 and the rapid adoption of desktop publishing technology.

00:38:23.880 Yeah, there you go.

00:38:24.740 Yeah, I just wanted to get that out there.

00:38:25.980 But you were talking about the paper?

00:38:27.360 Yeah, so the paper was the first thing we had to figure out.

00:38:29.780 We could figure out all the other things,

00:38:31.500 the printing, the technology, this,

00:38:33.040 but if you don't get the paper right, it's worthless, right?

00:38:37.040 Because you had to beat the pen, right?

00:38:38.820 That was the first test that led us there, right, was the pen.

00:38:41.880 And the paper is what beats the pen.

00:38:43.500 Yeah.

00:38:44.020 Well, it's the pH in the paper, right?

00:38:45.700 Okay.

00:38:46.040 The paper is like a, it's a neutral, right?

00:38:49.540 There's no acid.

00:38:50.660 So paper goes from like acidic levels.

00:38:53.820 And so the money paper is like almost like at zero, right?

00:38:57.940 It's really hard to get it at that, I suppose.

00:39:00.360 I don't make paper, but as I learned how to do this,

00:39:03.140 I learned that paper has these different levels on it.

00:39:05.460 And so the pen reacts with that.

00:39:07.340 With the acidic level.

00:39:08.260 If it's not neutral, then what happens?

00:39:09.480 It turns black. 0.93

00:39:10.220 Okay, got it. 0.58

00:39:10.480 Like a dark brown.

00:39:11.580 Okay, got it.

00:39:12.280 So that's like you see at the bank or some like a-

00:39:14.520 When you go to the store, you get-

00:39:15.560 Bodegas and stuff, they do that sometimes.

00:39:16.940 Yeah, they do the pen.

00:39:18.020 And if it's real, it'll turn like a light yellow, right?

00:39:20.660 Got it.

00:39:20.840 It's like a light yellow.

00:39:21.720 It's a beautiful color.

00:39:22.620 Love that color.

00:39:23.520 But so here it is.

00:39:24.420 We're trying to figure out this paper, and we're ordering paper from everywhere.

00:39:28.760 But like back in the day, in the yellow pages, again, the internet's only in the libraries

00:39:33.120 and the universities, so you still had yellow pages back then.

00:39:36.200 So here we are going to this paper company, this paper company.

00:39:39.420 We're ordering, getting samples.

00:39:40.740 She's marketing, marketing, marketing.

00:39:42.080 We're going on and on with this.

00:39:44.100 Finally, I'm losing.

00:39:45.140 I'm thinking we're not going to be able to pull it off.

00:39:47.020 And so I'm getting a little upset with her.

00:39:48.680 I'm arguing with her that we're not doing something right.

00:39:50.960 So she starts screaming back at me.

00:39:53.060 She's waving the yellow pages at me. 1.00

00:39:55.700 You fucker here fucking running me ragged like I was really running the girl hard too, right? 1.00

00:40:00.460 And she slammed it down and she goes, nothing works.

00:40:03.140 and she marked the yellow pages and she just she stopped she goes she goes i can't believe this

00:40:08.940 can't be and i'm like huh what's going on because i still don't know and she hits it again and again

00:40:13.560 she goes she looks up she goes this whole time we've been looking for the paper and this is it 0.68

00:40:18.860 art come here and i go over there and what the fuck it marked i got nervous when i seen it go 0.60

00:40:25.820 yellow i got so nervous because i didn't have to do nothing to it bro up until this point i even 0.91

00:40:32.820 started trying to put acid on the paper i almost burned the house down like a real asshole i put 0.61

00:40:37.340 acid in aluminum don't ever do that right yeah don't do it okay go right through but i was trying 0.82

00:40:43.640 to do all kinds of dumb things right so you're trying all different papers i mean all different

00:40:47.160 papers and i'll hear the whole time it's the freaking yellow pages that is like one of the

00:40:52.520 most widely used paper in the whole world like what types of different cottons linens uh different

00:40:58.500 poundage 20 because it's the pay what pay uh papers weighed right like you got you got 20

00:41:03.620 pound they're like like school paper would probably be like a 26 pound 32 pound right

00:41:08.380 you're printing papers like 32 yeah uh what i needed was 18 right so it was real thin right

00:41:15.720 and and this is what happened this is what made this so amazing so here i was looking to for the

00:41:23.000 paper that I could mark, you know, mark right. But now this gave me, it solved a bunch of things

00:41:29.440 because I needed to solve the watermark and I needed to solve the strip, right? And then strip

00:41:34.840 is fluorescent. So now I got to figure out how to make the strip fluorescent, but I got to put all

00:41:38.960 these things in the paper. With the yellow pages, because it was so thin, it allowed me to press two

00:41:44.580 of them together. It was awesome, right? I'd print three on each side, three fronts, three backs.

00:41:49.780 I'd have my strips and my watermarks

00:41:51.800 I'd have a light table

00:41:53.080 And I would have all the stuff

00:41:54.600 Just every piece laid out

00:41:56.340 And I would just lay

00:41:57.120 It was all hand done

00:41:58.120 That's the one thing about my money

00:41:59.900 Right?

00:42:00.700 So like people ask how much I've done

00:42:02.380 And I've printed and made a lot

00:42:04.540 But every single piece was hand done

00:42:06.880 Wow

00:42:07.300 Every piece

00:42:08.140 Every one I put that watermark in

00:42:10.960 Every one I laid that strip

00:42:12.740 Every one of them 1.00

00:42:13.700 She'd be standing right next to me 0.99

00:42:15.340 You know? 0.99

00:42:15.840 It's a little newborn

00:42:16.640 Oh yeah

00:42:17.380 A little baby man 0.99

00:42:18.280 It's a piece of art

00:42:18.880 It really was

00:42:19.680 And then you press them.

00:42:21.560 But when we found that, you know, when she did that, now we're looking for the paper.

00:42:26.000 She would go to R.R. Donnelly out there in the suburbs of Chicago, say that she was a teacher and she was doing a school project with the kid.

00:42:33.340 Could I get some paper?

00:42:34.880 And they'd give us a whole roll of it for free.

00:42:36.780 Wow.

00:42:37.320 The whole roll.

00:42:38.460 Like enough to do like a million dollars, right?

00:42:41.300 It was, it was, it was.

00:42:42.740 Of the phone book paper?

00:42:43.760 Of the phone book paper.

00:42:44.500 We'd get it on a butt roll, they call it, right?

00:42:46.020 Wow. 1.00

00:42:46.200 So after they're done printing the phone books, they would have these butt rolls that would have, like, that much left on her or something, man.

00:42:52.480 And they would just—and so she'd come out of her, man, with free paper, like, look at me, man.

00:42:56.700 We'd load that shit up.

00:42:58.620 And then we would cut it, and then we'd prep it.

00:43:01.880 We had to do a lot to it because—so when we started to try to run it through the inkjets, it couldn't match the colors, right?

00:43:10.820 So at first, I wanted to just run it off the inkjet, right?

00:43:13.920 The printer.

00:43:14.180 The printers, right?

00:43:15.120 You know, the Noro printers.

00:43:16.200 but you could get like the serial numbers really good.

00:43:19.360 You could get the seals really good.

00:43:20.860 You could get certain,

00:43:21.760 maybe the back sometimes the right ones at the early days you could get

00:43:25.020 good,

00:43:25.360 but the actual color of money you can never match ever.

00:43:29.660 I don't,

00:43:30.220 I don't give a shit how good you were.

00:43:31.520 I mean,

00:43:32.280 again,

00:43:32.680 again,

00:43:33.020 here we go.

00:43:33.660 Now we got the paper.

00:43:34.560 Now it's time to do the files.

00:43:36.200 Right.

00:43:36.280 But you think you'd be able to figure out the color,

00:43:37.940 right?

00:43:38.080 I mean,

00:43:38.240 the colors with a computer,

00:43:39.980 you don't control it.

00:43:41.820 It's the computer that uses the Pantone.

00:43:44.020 So it's a Pantone color.

00:43:45.300 I see.

00:43:45.860 Right.

00:43:46.040 So it wasn't really exactly up to you.

00:43:48.480 I mean, if you're using an inkjet, it's only going to have so many variations.

00:43:53.420 You can adjust it, you know?

00:43:54.860 And so, like, with money, right, you're trying to create something that is the most powerful tool in the world.

00:44:01.360 Yeah.

00:44:01.940 Right?

00:44:02.560 And money has a feel.

00:44:05.260 It has a look.

00:44:06.020 It has, like, a greenish cream color to it, right?

00:44:09.240 Right. Like in this and even though it looks very simple, it's still very powerful.

00:44:14.540 Right. That bill is. And so if you're printing like with the way that I did it is I did every layer like they did when I went to the to to their website and I watched how they did it.

00:44:26.540 What the first thing I learned was they did every single image by itself.

00:44:30.860 Right. That's what made my money so good. That's what separated me from all the other counterfeiters before me and most definitely all of them behind me.

00:44:39.240 I like to do one thing at a time.

00:44:41.440 If you try to do everything at one time,

00:44:43.300 which a lot of the counterfeiters did,

00:44:45.160 you're always going to get one or two or three of the assets off, right?

00:44:50.400 Because the face and the weave around it,

00:44:53.800 which is micro printing or the seals or the numbers,

00:44:56.260 there's so many different things that you got to print.

00:44:58.420 And if you try to print them all at once,

00:45:00.160 it's going to be impossible to match all of them.

00:45:02.740 And if you only get one or two off, you could tell.

00:45:06.040 You could tell right away, right?

00:45:08.360 Every one of them has to be perfect if you want to really fool the world with the money, right?

00:45:13.060 So how would you go about doing one and then doing the next one, like with a printer?

00:45:17.960 Were you still using the printer or you put that kibosh on that?

00:45:20.420 Well, no, that's when it advanced to bringing back Pete's technology with the offset

00:45:24.900 because it allowed me to mix my own ink.

00:45:26.780 Got it.

00:45:27.180 Right?

00:45:27.440 So what I needed to figure out was how to color this paper, right?

00:45:31.160 And that was one of the hardest things.

00:45:32.720 It's so, so, so like trippy when I think back on it, because on the scale, the amount of paint that I used for a run was like an eyedrop, right?

00:45:44.340 To get that light, light, light, green, creamy look was one of the hardest colors to match.

00:45:50.180 So a run means one bill or how many bills?

00:45:52.200 It's just one run through, right?

00:45:53.640 Like, so, so when I...

00:45:54.840 I see what you're saying.

00:45:55.280 And how many times you have to run through to get a bill correct?

00:45:57.120 So for the registry, so, so I'm going to give you some printing knowledge, right?

00:46:01.180 So what made my bills, what allowed me to be able to keep running it through is the registration.

00:46:08.140 Like on a printer, you got that little thing that moves to the side, right, for the paper, like if you change the paper size.

00:46:13.760 Okay.

00:46:14.120 Right, if you have 8 1⁄2 by 11, there's that little thing.

00:46:16.320 That little gauge, it's like, okay, you move that to the side of it to kind of keep it right there.

00:46:20.080 That's called registration.

00:46:21.320 Okay.

00:46:21.820 Keeps the paper straight, where it goes into the computer perfect.

00:46:25.120 Same thing on an offset press.

00:46:27.000 You have a registration.

00:46:27.920 A little bit harder to work with on that, though, right?

00:46:31.200 You've got to be really lined up because that paper's flying through that thing, right?

00:46:36.200 Whereas the printer's like, uh, uh, uh, uh, right?

00:46:39.180 Right.

00:46:39.500 Offset presses, right?

00:46:41.540 It's just shooting it out really fast.

00:46:43.620 So that registration, but I was able to get the registration pretty much perfect every time, you know, just being patient with it, right?

00:46:52.420 Not trying to force it.

00:46:53.800 And so the first thing I would do is run the paper through the offset press.

00:46:57.700 So this is when I combined the two.

00:46:59.220 I seen that the inkjets couldn't print the background.

00:47:01.840 It was impossible.

00:47:03.300 And so I said, okay, let me get a printing press,

00:47:06.440 and let me go do the old way.

00:47:08.300 One of Pete's.

00:47:09.080 Yeah, one of Pete's, and then we'll use Natalie's way

00:47:12.040 with the serial numbers and the seals.

00:47:14.480 It worked really good for the serial numbers

00:47:16.320 because I could change every single one of them.

00:47:18.400 And the seals, it matched really close.

00:47:20.300 But with the printing press, I wanted the color,

00:47:23.800 and the weave and the face.

00:47:26.060 I wanted that face to be perfect

00:47:27.820 because, you know, if you tried to scan the bill,

00:47:30.460 it would create this little wavy thing around the head

00:47:32.520 and it just looked nasty, right?

00:47:34.060 That was one of the security features.

00:47:35.640 It's called a moray and they didn't even list it up there,

00:47:37.580 but that's one of them.

00:47:39.000 But with the printing press, I get to shoot my own.

00:47:41.780 I get to take a picture of it, right?

00:47:43.620 And so when I went back to that,

00:47:45.340 that's when the bills went like from here to here, right?

00:47:49.160 Because now I'm really making it like the feds are making it

00:47:52.180 Just at a very small, you know, small scale, right?

00:47:55.520 Yeah.

00:47:56.200 And the first thing I would do is we would cut the paper,

00:47:59.060 and we'd have to put it on a carrier paper, which was a thicker paper

00:48:02.040 because that 18-pound was so skinny that it would jam the big press.

00:48:06.880 Oh, that makes sense.

00:48:07.720 Yeah, if you're putting phone book paper through a printer,

00:48:10.260 it's not going to make it.

00:48:10.980 It would just tear it up.

00:48:12.660 So we'd have to put that on a piece of paper thicker

00:48:14.840 and then tape the sides.

00:48:16.440 Funny story, I had a whole senior citizen living place

00:48:21.120 putting paper on paper for me like 50 boxes man really yeah we were doing yeah well we were about

00:48:27.080 to do a big run and so i asked my boy the greek i said man i gotta i gotta get all this paper put

00:48:32.680 on me and he's like how many buys like 50 boxes he's like dude that's great i said what and he

00:48:37.040 was uh remodeling a senior citizen home and he's like well guess what dog he was uh the senior

00:48:41.880 citizen home that i'm doing some work on they play in the game room all the time maybe i'll ask them

00:48:46.100 he goes there ain't no money on it i'm like no no there ain't no money on it i just need one piece

00:48:50.040 of paper placed on another and taped the two sides so we asked the the head of the the the you

00:48:55.540 know the the senior citizen and i had before you know it i had like 20 old people doing and we were

00:49:01.060 doing a contest i was paying them 50 bucks a day and you're and they don't even know they don't

00:49:05.540 know it's going to get printed into money yeah they were helping i had all these it was awesome

00:49:09.100 but they they had fun they were yeah they had fun for sure they did they did contests for sure they

00:49:13.940 were laughing do the most i would give a bonus well who could do the most oh they would all come

00:49:18.120 out but they had no idea they were helping you counterfeit not at all not at all not one bit yeah

00:49:21.940 and we and we got it done like that it was so awesome yeah that was fun but anyway so yeah we

00:49:26.340 the paper we'd run it through we'd do the background then we would do the the the weave

00:49:32.220 in the face and then we would run it through the new technology and we would do the serial numbers

00:49:36.440 and the seals and then that little hundred right and then even that with the with the shifting ink

00:49:41.160 this is what was the coolest thing i i think with with me creating this bill was how i was able to

00:49:47.740 take just your common things right like take car paint and use it for the shifting ink right it's

00:49:55.840 car paint but I was able to alter it well not at all it was the same company that made it for the

00:50:00.620 feds right I mean wasn't too smart of them right you know how'd you find out that they made it for

00:50:05.420 the feds through their uh patent number so so I would also look up patent numbers that's how I

00:50:09.860 figured out the counter machine in the banks so I was I'm like a scientist with stuff man I'm always

00:50:14.220 trying to figure things out and what's really nuts is the federal government man they give you

00:50:18.160 like the patent office if you have a patent number you could go to the patent office and put the patent

00:50:22.520 number and it'll tell you you could make a nuclear bomb if you wanted i think actually it'll tell you

00:50:26.600 everything about it tell you everything about it well it has to right so if you're trying to file

00:50:30.020 a patent you got to do a patent search right so i got the my boy's mom worked at the bank and i had

00:50:35.320 her get the patent number off the counter machine and then i just went and put it in in the you know

00:50:40.260 patent trademark office and it gave me the whole schematic man how it used the magnetic ink for

00:50:44.840 the thread how it did this how it counted i mean i literally defeated the bill by using their own

00:50:49.520 knowledge yeah it's pretty cool you know but um wow dude dude i and and i remember whenever we

00:50:56.180 whenever we met up in chicago you told me that um yeah like whenever you made that first bill it was

00:51:01.100 crazy the feeling was like really overwhelming because um it was scary it was i mean i don't

00:51:07.500 get scared much but it put a it put a level of fear in me like what did I just do you know like

00:51:14.180 I you know because I'm from the streets and I and I and I've seen people get hurt I've seen people

00:51:22.040 do really well but money can cause a lot of things you know oh yeah and and so for me I'm sitting

00:51:27.680 here like the the first thing that came to mind is be as secretive as possible don't let anybody

00:51:32.300 know like i didn't want to tell nobody right so it wasn't you know sometimes you do something that

00:51:40.400 that you're so proud of that you you want to go show your mama yeah i didn't want to show my mama

00:51:44.900 this one right like i didn't want to show nobody man i and and i got nervous i'm like man they'll

00:51:50.440 kill us they'll kill us i told i actually told now they'll kill us for this man like this is

00:51:55.320 their power and we're and we're learning how to create it out of freaking yellow pages yeah you

00:52:01.880 know like i can't imagine yeah it was ridiculous you know and so and so now you can make money

00:52:07.700 yeah right how long does it take to you to make like a decent amount of money and then

00:52:12.020 what do you decide you're going to start doing and what do you start spending it on well again

00:52:16.460 crime escalates right so you know at first it was like we wanted to just because i wanted to

00:52:22.160 be secretive about it we would just drive around the country and just spend it right we'd shoot

00:52:26.180 shoot to the other side of the country where'd y'all go like vegas to the malls you know i mean

00:52:30.840 No, we'd hit it.

00:52:31.460 I'd probably hit every town in the country.

00:52:33.400 I'm like back road arty, man.

00:52:34.940 I have been on every back road in this country.

00:52:36.480 You were just cruising, just having a good time?

00:52:38.100 I got like two million miles under me, for sure.

00:52:40.780 Absolutely.

00:52:41.260 On the road driving?

00:52:41.900 Yeah, back then we had the Atlas, you know?

00:52:43.460 So we'd look at a town, and every town always had like this little mall in it, you know?

00:52:48.340 And Natalie got good, boy.

00:52:49.420 She could hit a mall, man, be on the other side of it, spend, you know, almost $15,000

00:52:53.800 in like an hour and a half.

00:52:55.140 And we'd be on the road, gone, you know?

00:52:57.560 and we sometimes

00:52:58.780 well we only

00:52:59.700 the most we ever did

00:53:00.520 was three in one day

00:53:01.300 she was on a roll

00:53:02.880 I don't know 1.00

00:53:03.960 if she did a line of cocaine 0.99

00:53:04.860 or what man 1.00

00:53:05.440 but she wouldn't stop 1.00

00:53:06.320 you know if she did 1.00

00:53:07.220 a line of cocaine

00:53:07.880 but let's keep it going

00:53:09.300 well she was going

00:53:10.920 anyway so like

00:53:13.960 yeah we would hit

00:53:14.640 the road man

00:53:15.240 but what happened is

00:53:16.480 first we started

00:53:17.400 buying things for us

00:53:18.320 and then before long

00:53:20.320 you got so much man 0.77

00:53:21.280 shit don't mean nothing 0.89

00:53:22.180 like you're almost like 0.92

00:53:23.340 god I feel like an asshole 0.52

00:53:24.760 right

00:53:25.480 I got 150 shirts

00:53:26.960 right yeah yeah what are you gonna do you have yeah a lot of pairs of shoes what are you gonna

00:53:30.820 do yeah so then we started getting things for like our family and friends and stuff like that

00:53:36.620 and were people noticing that you had money for sure yeah but people you know here the thing is

00:53:41.320 is i was always looked at as a hustler got it right so whether it was robbing drug dealers or

00:53:47.820 like i mean we even hit hit trucks a little bit you know my boy was a teamster we'd get shit off

00:53:53.180 the docks you know all the time one time i had like 250 000 condoms like everyone in chicago

00:53:59.080 was wearing one of the condoms i was yeah oh you robbed the truck yeah got it the trucks yeah

00:54:03.700 trucks in chicago that was another little hustle we had you know i had big razors i had man i've

00:54:08.900 had everything you know but anyway back to to the the the money yeah how were you spending it so we

00:54:14.780 so we started buying stuff for like our families and friends you know but then that that even kind

00:54:20.660 of got to the point to where like people started expecting things yeah like you know like you'd

00:54:24.900 come into town and like they were like always looking what's what's you got me now right you

00:54:30.340 know and if you didn't there'd be like an attitude or something you know so like that's when i stepped

00:54:35.840 away from that and then then we just started buying things for kids right i grew up poor grew

00:54:39.780 up in the projects you know we were at the salvation army shelter home you know and so

00:54:44.000 there's a salvation army box in every town yeah so i would just tell tell natalie listen just get

00:54:49.000 diapers baby clothes baby shoes baby toys let's go drop them off and we'll just drop them off and

00:54:54.180 that was like that was like one of the coolest times of my life that's the most fulfilling they

00:54:59.780 say i they say i did that by my therapist said when i was in prison i did it to like cover up

00:55:04.560 my crime but but for me it really i i loved helping people man it was awesome what made it

00:55:09.200 one of the best times of your life well because i just knew because it wasn't even just the

00:55:13.300 salvation art but even families like you know uh one of natalie's friends down in houston was

00:55:17.620 struggling man and we just showed up at christmas and just bam blessed her kids with with with rent

00:55:22.460 and toys they weren't gonna have a christmas right right and see that or you know or even like i'd go

00:55:27.900 to church man like i was i was so sick with it i would take 10 out and i'd go to church on sunday

00:55:34.460 we'd hit we hit the malls friday and saturday and i go church and and give them 10 and walk out you

00:55:39.300 know like i just love doing things like that you know so you were using some of the counterfeit

00:55:43.540 money to go tithe yeah you give 10% counterfeit money give god the money he's the biggest gangster

00:55:48.440 ever man you know oh for sure gotta give him his man well you know what that's the thing about life

00:55:54.220 right like the there's there's i call it the flow right like when you when you when you give man it

00:56:00.500 you're what you're doing is you're opening yourself up man for a lot of good yeah a lot of good you

00:56:05.460 know and i learned how to do that even in the toughest times like man we when there were times

00:56:09.880 when I was growing up man

00:56:10.840 where we didn't have

00:56:11.660 hot water

00:56:12.600 for two years

00:56:13.400 we didn't have no hot water

00:56:14.420 you know how cold

00:56:15.200 it gets in Chicago

00:56:15.980 and here you're

00:56:16.860 taking a cold shower

00:56:18.280 you know

00:56:19.100 while it's 30 degrees out 0.55

00:56:20.640 like that shit was rough 0.81

00:56:22.120 you know 0.57

00:56:22.640 but even in that

00:56:23.960 you found

00:56:25.180 some happiness man

00:56:26.560 right

00:56:27.020 and it's all about the mind

00:56:28.520 the thought man

00:56:29.200 where you're

00:56:30.080 gonna be

00:56:30.500 you know

00:56:30.840 and so for me

00:56:32.060 helping these kids

00:56:32.980 giving back

00:56:34.200 doing that

00:56:35.100 was like

00:56:35.620 and I say it's one

00:56:37.800 of the coolest times

00:56:38.540 because

00:56:38.980 even though there was my mom was mentally ill you know my dad was gone my brother was you know i

00:56:46.220 lost my brother to mental illness he was no longer with us you know i lost two years ago yeah yeah

00:56:51.660 you know out in la man he just you know he's gone but but he was he was special he had a great

00:56:57.200 mind right but you know so for me the money at that time that's what brought me happiness right

00:57:03.840 was giving right so it led you to a place where it's like yeah at least i get to do something for

00:57:08.340 others right that's a good i mean it makes sense especially if you come from a place where you

00:57:12.540 didn't have much then you would want to be able to give to others you know um did you try to put

00:57:18.500 any money in the bank no no no i mean my bank was forest preserve just burying it yeah i'd bury it

00:57:24.660 man i'd say i'd stuff it in pvc pipes well first i put it in plastic seal it and put because pvc

00:57:30.140 doesn't disintegrate you know and stuff it in there and then go bury it i probably still got

00:57:35.340 stuff buried out there i just don't know where it's at we can go look sometimes you ever come

00:57:38.800 up there hypothetically i got at least three that are still buried somewhere over there i just lost

00:57:44.280 the map three mil you think oh no i don't know about that i'd always do like hundred thousand

00:57:48.440 dollar tubes yeah you know like just little ones you know put maybe two or three or four tubes in

00:57:53.060 a hole five tubes you know but yeah i did lose some out there but i really don't know where it's

00:57:58.640 at and i don't want to find it just that's just i just need to say that did you ever give

00:58:04.960 counterfeit money to people that you knew oh not like purposely right you know like i i like to play

00:58:11.620 with it one of my favorite things back then you know the bombs on the street that would have the

00:58:14.760 little signs will work for food right i always give them 100 yeah yeah because you know they'll

00:58:20.540 go spend it and they were good i knew that they wouldn't get caught with it right and they'd go

00:58:25.100 spend it in a place that i probably would never have gone right you know so like if it did pop

00:58:29.580 up hey you know what's going on what happens to places that end up with counterfeit money like

00:58:34.580 what happens to say like you go to like a bodega or a gas station someplace you pass a hundred

00:58:38.740 dollar bill on them what happens to those so here's the thing so like corporate stuff back then

00:58:44.060 they could just write it off right the bank could snatch it they have to write it off as a loss 0.97

00:58:49.520 right we'd always try to stay away from like both you know i don't want to go hit a mama pop 0.94

00:58:54.820 with a bogus hunter you know because i don't want it to pop up on them in their bank and then they 0.67

00:58:59.680 get it so it was always like i always try to stay towards the corporation stuff you know like the

00:59:04.980 walgreens the walmart's again you know i i wouldn't go to the corner store and spend it on on

00:59:10.100 old lady you know got it yeah so i but but but the corporations out you know now i mean i think

00:59:16.820 they changed it to where now they do make them responsible but back then because it wasn't so

00:59:21.760 like aggressive the the laws were a little bit lighter what do you mean it wasn't so aggressive

00:59:28.000 Well, there wasn't, the counterfeiting wasn't, like, a really big crime.

00:59:31.700 Got it.

00:59:32.040 Like, there's drug dealers in every city, thousands of them, right?

00:59:36.060 There might be one or two counterfeiters in a city, right?

00:59:39.460 Like, the crime was, especially when the new bill did come out, it did defeat a lot of things.

00:59:45.100 You know, a lot of—

00:59:45.720 The 1996 $100 bill?

00:59:46.940 Yeah, it put a lot of people out of business.

00:59:48.680 Got it.

00:59:48.900 You know, like, it did.

00:59:50.020 Yeah.

00:59:50.480 And, you know, and still does.

00:59:54.200 I mean, I don't think really there's been a huge impact to counterfeiters since then,

00:59:59.400 especially with the new build.

01:00:00.360 The new build is almost impossible to do.

01:00:02.560 It would cost too much money to try to even replicate it.

01:00:05.040 Is that true?

01:00:05.980 Yeah, yeah.

01:00:06.720 What new features have been added?

01:00:07.880 Well, the visual physics.

01:00:09.000 It's that purple strip.

01:00:10.400 So, like I said, yeah, you can look it up.

01:00:13.460 But on the 2015, I think it came out in 15 or 13.

01:00:17.380 I think it was 13 because that's when I got out.

01:00:18.940 I felt like they let it out right when I got out.

01:00:21.260 And it's a purple strip that goes on the middle.

01:00:23.280 Okay.

01:00:23.680 and it's actually like uh there it is it's actually like thousands like nano nano shards of

01:00:30.640 glass that they embed in in it and it's called visual physics it's actually really fascinating

01:00:37.440 do they even tell you it's called visual physics in that thing no no they don't let me see this

01:00:42.060 right here this says it has a 3d security ribbon for one where if you tilt the note back and forth

01:00:47.120 while focusing on the blue ribbon or blue strip some people call them you will see the bells

01:00:51.680 change to 100s as they move. When you tilt the note back and forth, the bells and 100s move

01:00:56.720 side to side. If you tilt it side to side, they move up and down. The ribbon is woven into the

01:01:01.960 paper, not printed on it. Wow. It's called visual physics. That's the name of it. Some scientists

01:01:06.980 created it. And the reason they didn't release the bill at the time was because the bills were

01:01:13.300 defected. So that printing technology wasn't perfected. And they were trying to use it too

01:01:18.080 soon so if you take 100 if we had one and you folded it right on that it would rip from there

01:01:22.640 real easy real easy right and and so they didn't release it for a while the ribbon would rip you

01:01:28.020 yeah right on the edge of the ribbon the bill would just come right apart whereas money's made

01:01:31.720 to be to last right got it and so these ones were a little bit that that that technology

01:01:38.160 wasn't perfected when they decided to use it got it let me read the rest of these yeah bell in the

01:01:44.260 Inkwell, color-shifting 100, a raised intaglio printing.

01:01:49.780 Genuine bills feel slightly rough,

01:01:51.720 particularly across Franklin's portrait and certain printed areas.

01:01:56.660 On his lapel, you can feel his lapel.

01:01:59.020 Oh, you can?

01:01:59.620 Yeah, when you rub your thumb across his lapel, you can feel it.

01:02:02.400 They had a famous director who used to pass money.

01:02:11.120 I think it was from that movie Live and Die in Los Angeles.

01:02:13.980 Can you look at it? It might have been William. Oh, Live and Die in LA. Yeah. It's one of the

01:02:17.000 greatest movies ever. Live and Die in LA. Yeah, I love it. It's only counterfeit money. Oh yeah,

01:02:20.560 this is the guy right here, William Friedkin. Let's hear this real fast. He introduced me to

01:02:26.340 a counterfeiter that he had arrested and put in prison and he got this guy out to come and

01:02:33.440 make counterfeit money for us, which was as good as the government's money. I know because I used

01:02:39.540 to pass it i used to spend these fake 20s this guy was an artist if i was the government i'd hire

01:02:47.700 that guy to make the money cheaper so yeah that's pretty wild i remember hearing about that that he

01:02:53.060 used to pass this money he used to go around and spend it and they had it on this the money they

01:02:57.360 got i believe it was from the set of uh live and die in la i'd like to get some of that yeah i

01:03:05.760 collect money I'd love to get my hands on I bet you do I was actually doing a painting of live

01:03:09.960 and die in LA in my gallery and on so I'm an artist now right I told you but I had I had a

01:03:15.120 space on Melrose and La Cienga and I was doing uh a live and die in LA picture right I was doing

01:03:22.660 the the like the poster that it came up but I made it with money and I mean I made it really

01:03:27.240 badass and it was really big and on Halloween night I I didn't go in because I went to take

01:03:31.940 the kids trick-or-treating and there was a drive-by and all my windows got shot out and somebody got

01:03:38.720 shot yeah i would have been there if i didn't go trick-or-treating but i was doing to live and 0.72

01:03:43.360 dino and i got bullet i got bullet holes in my window like what the hell is this man dude but 0.53

01:03:48.840 then predict the future predict like a really good one like theo goes to heaven

01:03:52.240 um but yeah so we let's go back into it so how much money do you think you printed over time

01:03:59.340 oh gosh I mean millions millions you know but I burn millions too like so so my way I would burn

01:04:06.040 money if it was if it wouldn't come out right you know I'd get rid of it immediately because it was

01:04:11.020 too risky to pass try and pass yeah yeah and just didn't want it floating around you know and like

01:04:16.160 what's the escalation ladder like once that once you start to make money you're buying things

01:04:20.260 you're tithing you don't even know what to do like what's happening with you personally and

01:04:24.120 then what's happening with you as far as making the money personally you know me and Natalie are

01:04:29.040 having the greatest time of our life right but uh i was getting tired of hitting the road all the

01:04:33.920 time it gets exhausting because you don't want to spend it at home no no you you don't yeah

01:04:38.620 absolutely not right but i hadn't been in chicago in like nine years so when i went to texas i had

01:04:44.520 stayed down there and so i wanted to go back home you know and and show my friends you know like

01:04:51.620 now it's time i want to you know i know that you know i know i'm from an organized crime neighborhood

01:04:56.320 you know so i'm thinking man this might be good you know i won't have to be driving around all

01:04:59.940 the time because you're taking chances when you're hitting the road with that stuff right

01:05:02.740 you get pulled over you got stacks of 20s fives and ones you know the cops are going to be thinking

01:05:07.340 something how much would you have in the car sometimes oh god 30,000 40,000 like it's scary

01:05:12.500 you have so much you know like yeah yeah even recent you know anyway yeah so yeah the money

01:05:18.880 you have a lot of it gets you nervous and and so i wanted a little bit easier life with it right

01:05:23.820 so that's what happens with crime though it escalates like I told you in the first and so

01:05:27.340 when I went back home my my so when I was growing up in Chicago the other thing is I like to play

01:05:32.840 basketball love basketball so I was on different teams and we would go to different neighborhoods

01:05:36.860 and whereas the Chicago could could be a little racy at times you know uh sports always healed

01:05:43.960 that you know so I could go I could go to 47th and Indiana man and go hoop and them boys love

01:05:49.200 me over there right or I go to Pilsen man I'd hoop with the with the amigos over there I mean

01:05:53.580 i i was able to go in all over the city because basketball got it and and i would you know i

01:05:59.860 created friendships in all the different areas man you know you carry in village and even now

01:06:06.320 like i go anywhere man i'm probably the only white dude that go 103rd and wallace you know

01:06:09.540 and hang out and just chill there right all them cats over there love me really oh yeah i'd go

01:06:14.940 over there i'd leave quick i'd take you over there with me i mean i would leave quick but i would go

01:06:18.380 but but i'm saying like i i could move through the city because i just and so when i went back

01:06:22.280 you know I went back to my boys you know got it and so were you trying to big shot at that time

01:06:26.760 a little bit like did you get a little bit of ego not at that time at that time I just wanted

01:06:30.740 to sell large chunks of it right I wanted to sell 100,000 at a time for 30 right or 200,000 I never

01:06:36.860 really wanted to go too high with the number that's high uh 100,000 was a good number right

01:06:42.260 100 for 30 you could walk away from that one right you start getting into the bigger numbers

01:06:47.760 you know i've had people say i want a million i had one guy jordanian dude wanted five million

01:06:52.760 right did you consider it uh i i did but i i didn't right like i didn't do it you know i 0.81

01:06:59.740 considered it you know he actually showed up i told me he was full of shit i'm like you ain't 0.66

01:07:04.040 got that type of cash and he showed up he showed up popped his trunk man and uh he had 300 grand

01:07:09.280 well that was five million so he had like 1.5 it was yeah it was a lot of money he had a suitcase

01:07:14.500 piece of money what kind of first time i rolls royce too winning rolls royce well he actually

01:07:18.240 owned uh he owned uh you can't pull up in a damn elantra with that shit he owned the exotic uh car 0.70

01:07:24.060 rental company in chicago years ago oh yeah his cousin who i was going through actually killed 0.69

01:07:29.180 himself on the road in vegas there's actually a video of it oh shit yeah it got real weird

01:07:33.360 because they were taking the money to vegas his his uh his um his stepmom or something owned a

01:07:40.340 casino in vegas and they were running the money through there and so when people would win they

01:07:45.940 would win that money they would win my money yeah it was nuts man right yeah it was crazy yeah

01:07:50.540 and then i guess muhammad yeah that's that was a real wild yeah that sounds like a bad idea it 0.67

01:07:55.640 was a bad idea yeah but that sounds exciting though well for for for me you know so how much

01:08:01.080 were you keeping at the house then am i i i didn't so one of my dudes um irish cat from the south

01:08:08.400 side his dad was a big real real estate guy he had like man he probably had gosh he probably had

01:08:14.340 like 60 buildings on the south side big apartment buildings it had like you know 20 30 apartments

01:08:19.620 in them like cat was well off he had a lot of apartment buildings man and when he died my

01:08:25.460 friend got them all oh my buddy inherited like 40 apartment buildings you know and that's my

01:08:31.480 sleep everywhere well i had eight apartments at one time man you did yeah i had something

01:08:36.100 over here you had how many about eight at one time eight apartments yeah about eight and so

01:08:40.360 you would keep money in them well i'd keep i'd keep equipment so i never did everything at all

01:08:45.600 at the same place got it right like i would print the money on the offset in one area and then i'd

01:08:50.980 move it right i wanted to get it get it away from the offset as quick as possible got it right

01:08:55.340 because if i just got caught with this i'm cool i get caught with that uh-uh i'm gone i would

01:09:00.080 have even been sitting here if i got caught with that i see yeah so yeah i was always able to get

01:09:04.740 away without getting caught with the equipment they didn't they never caught any equipment with

01:09:09.060 me you know but but so yeah i would have stuff over here i'd have paper over here i have money

01:09:13.720 stashed over here and then how did things start to get hot uh just ego you know living a life

01:09:22.740 you know not the money's coming yeah buying extra sandwiches you're going to the clubs cars hats

01:09:29.400 cocaine's blowing in there you know i mean just the whole night you started popping huh oh man

01:09:34.100 I was an animal

01:09:34.940 I was a savage

01:09:35.800 I didn't know all that shit dude

01:09:37.560 I was a savage man

01:09:38.180 You fucking made it sound

01:09:39.120 Like you're fucking

01:09:39.780 Yeah I am now

01:09:40.800 I'm a grown old man dad

01:09:42.320 No but you made it sound

01:09:44.220 Like you're in there

01:09:44.800 Tithing

01:09:45.380 You guys are just

01:09:46.120 Popping into different malls

01:09:47.620 With freaking

01:09:47.980 Blessing Cinnabons and shit 0.96

01:09:49.560 And now you're over here

01:09:51.160 Telling me all out

01:09:51.960 Getting it going

01:09:52.740 Well I was a dirty Christian

01:09:53.800 That's what I call it 1.00

01:09:54.880 Yeah yeah yeah

01:09:56.100 I would pray

01:09:56.900 You know anyway man

01:09:58.360 Yeah I think

01:09:59.640 Who termed that?

01:10:01.700 Shia LaBeouf

01:10:02.620 From Transformers

01:10:03.780 the dirty christian dirty christian dirty christian leaving god is still still saying

01:10:07.840 no we well that's what happened man just what when you well one of my boys he's so i got a 0.56

01:10:15.280 really badass crew of cats in chicago okay still do my dude owned a drink he was one of the owners

01:10:20.560 of the drink which was a real famous club in chicago then he had one of the dopest private

01:10:25.700 clubs in the city called stilettos like super private you know i can imagine it yeah yeah so

01:10:32.380 So I had my crew of guys, we were like, we were serious.

01:10:37.140 We were badasses, man.

01:10:38.240 You know what I'm saying?

01:10:38.560 You guys were out doing it.

01:10:39.520 Yeah.

01:10:39.900 Oh, yeah, dude.

01:10:40.440 I will say this.

01:10:41.160 Some of the dudes that I know that get after it the most are from Chicago.

01:10:45.620 Oh, yeah.

01:10:46.020 No, we know how to have a good time, right?

01:10:49.640 I mean, it's unprecedented, bro.

01:10:51.780 And then they're always like at some point in the evening or weekend,

01:10:55.220 they're always like, oh, have you tried this like sausage from – 1.00

01:10:59.080 it's always like some dude's grilling up some uh some polish franks or whatever it's fucking 0.89

01:11:04.600 oh well in the summer my dude tommy he he don't even use a stove yeah and yeah it's grill only 0.97

01:11:09.860 we got one of our guys one of our guys crystal he's a russian cat man he likes to cook indoors

01:11:15.080 man and tommy tries to throw him out the window he's like only outside in the summer man no cooking

01:11:20.320 inside you know literally that grill is going non-stop but yeah no i just had a good group of

01:11:25.740 guys, but we were animals. We were savages, man.

01:11:27.640 So you're all out getting after it. You're doing the cocaine.

01:11:29.740 Yeah, we were doing limos. We were doing just

01:11:31.560 dumb shit, man. Our limos are for f***ing.

01:11:34.000 Yeah, well, back then it was kind of

01:11:35.660 cool. Yeah, I agree. Not now. The problem was

01:11:37.700 you get in and you gotta go all

01:11:39.760 the way in. You gotta come all the way out.

01:11:41.540 Now we do the suburbans. Those are the best

01:11:43.640 ways, right? Suburban level. But dude, when I, like,

01:11:45.660 sometimes limos, I'd get in.

01:11:47.500 If you're the first person in, you gotta go all the way to the, like,

01:11:50.000 bro, I'd be so drunk sometimes I couldn't

01:11:51.560 even get out. I'm like, f*** it. I'll just stay. Just crawl out the

01:11:53.560 fucking sunroof no i just stay in there yeah just stay in there go to sleep because it's too long 0.96

01:11:57.480 it's like a hall it's like it's like a hallway it was too far to get to the door dude yeah but 0.90

01:12:01.780 things started getting out of hand man you don't you know you're drinking you're going out you're

01:12:05.760 partying you're flexing and you're just making mistakes got it with me you know my and and then

01:12:13.500 and then for when i got caught it was just kind of just freak right because i'm always moving right

01:12:20.040 but in the early time it was more of the quiet being the quiet ghost right you know and now

01:12:28.220 you're going to the clubs and you're meeting people and you're doing more and you're doing

01:12:31.280 more and you're doing more and you put yourself in more danger the more you do right and so i

01:12:37.180 actually ended up at the house of blues how i got you know how this the whole thing went down is i

01:12:41.360 was at the house of blues i was meeting somebody dude i've been to that house of blues it's right

01:12:45.460 over there it's across the river from the uh chicago theater yeah yeah it was it was awesome

01:12:50.840 back in the day was there a band playing yeah no it was a great night i mean we had so we went we

01:12:55.700 were actually staying at the hotel because i had like a little i had like where i lived was in

01:12:59.680 marshall illinois was like three hours or two i forgot how how south it was it was on highway one

01:13:05.500 but so like i told you i'm real weird about where i laid my head at night yeah and so i i rarely ever

01:13:11.820 Was in the city

01:13:12.680 Right

01:13:13.040 Where I laid my head

01:13:13.940 Was usually outside

01:13:14.660 Of the city

01:13:15.220 You know

01:13:15.760 Were you saying

01:13:16.620 At that tall hotel

01:13:17.380 Right there by the river

01:13:18.220 Well you had the round things

01:13:19.940 You know where the round

01:13:20.660 The corn husk looking one

01:13:21.520 Yeah that's it

01:13:21.860 The corn husk

01:13:22.480 Yeah it's the corn husk

01:13:23.400 That's the one you're saying at

01:13:24.240 Yeah that's what I'm saying

01:13:24.660 Let's go dude

01:13:25.440 I've stayed there

01:13:26.280 You wanna go

01:13:26.760 Well let's go

01:13:27.520 Yeah

01:13:27.900 Anyway I got the cops

01:13:29.440 The cops kicked my door

01:13:30.620 Did they ever kick yours in

01:13:31.540 No

01:13:31.920 Oh okay

01:13:32.600 Well they kicked mine in

01:13:33.800 And with guns out

01:13:35.320 You should have left

01:13:35.780 The sign out there

01:13:36.580 Ha no

01:13:37.160 They tricked me

01:13:37.980 Did they really

01:13:39.180 Well what happened is

01:13:41.320 We were at

01:13:41.740 we were down at the uh so I'm coming in I'm selling 100 grand to one of my dudes he had me

01:13:46.760 meet you know we were going to stay at the house of blues so I had him meet us at the bar so I get

01:13:51.380 in and uh and and he's just he shows up he's like dude I can't really stay because I got family from

01:13:57.200 he was a Russian one of my Russian friends he had family come in they were doing a wedding or

01:14:00.880 something and he's like uh he goes why don't you come back uh to my house and we'll party

01:14:05.920 with all my family and then we'll do the deal tomorrow I was like all right cool let's do it

01:14:11.000 So I went and we had a great time, but the bartender heard us say party.

01:14:16.300 And I guess he was a snitch for, you know, some, some, some dicks downtown, you know?

01:14:21.640 And, and so he called his, his little, you know, contact.

01:14:25.220 And so when me and my, my, my wife's sister, cause I had my wife's sister, she wanted to

01:14:29.880 see the city and I brought her up and, you know, it was all that.

01:14:32.900 And, um, and she was having a great time.

01:14:35.200 And so when we went up to the room, I went into the room and she stayed on the couch,

01:14:40.040 you know near the front door but i was all the way in the back in the in the in the it was like

01:14:44.620 you know the suites you got the yeah so the phone rings like so we get we get into the room like two

01:14:50.980 in the morning the phone rings i pick it up and there's there's no one there you know and when

01:14:55.720 that happens you know you got problems you got about 30 seconds yeah it's it's not good right

01:14:59.740 i put the phone down and not like literally 30 i mean quick i hear the door knock right and you

01:15:07.400 have cash in there with you yeah i had like a hundred hundred thousand i had it i had it in the

01:15:11.560 closet uh in between the towels as i put the phone down i hear the the the uh the the you know the

01:15:20.700 door hitting and i and i and i scream out don't open the door right but she got up because i was

01:15:29.780 because the suites were big she didn't even hear me she opened the door boom they come in they got

01:15:35.520 their guns out i'm like this man no no i'm on the bed they yeah it was just a crazy movie scene man

01:15:41.360 you know what they think it was they thought i was selling drugs so so the guy said party yeah

01:15:46.080 party so he thought it's cocaine again cocaine gets you in trouble man yeah yeah so anyway they

01:15:51.960 they they they came in there where's the cocaine where's the cocaine i'm like what are you talking

01:15:57.440 about like i have no fucking clue what's happening right now they handcuffed me they handcuffed my

01:16:02.600 my wife's sister she's crying she's only like 16 years old she's scared she's scared right she's 0.75

01:16:09.380 because we were supposed i was going to take her to the museums and it's going to be a great little

01:16:13.040 like really nice day now she's in cuffs right and i'm thinking oh my god what is going on and does

01:16:19.660 she know you have this money in the room no she don't know nothing yeah she don't have a clue i 0.65

01:16:23.320 was just going drop it off and and and natalie's saying man why don't you take my sister with you

01:16:27.780 She wants to see the museums and all that.

01:16:29.540 And I'm like, whatever.

01:16:31.600 I bring her.

01:16:32.760 And what happens?

01:16:33.680 So now here I am.

01:16:34.640 We're both handcuffed.

01:16:35.940 And she's looking at me like, not one thing I will say about her.

01:16:39.500 She didn't say nothing, man.

01:16:40.600 She was sorry.

01:16:41.180 Yeah, she just stayed there.

01:16:42.480 She was crying a little bit.

01:16:43.400 Then she kind of said, just calm down.

01:16:44.580 It's going to be all right.

01:16:45.320 And she listened to me.

01:16:46.660 Anyway, they're searching the room looking for the cocaine.

01:16:49.000 They find the money in the closet.

01:16:51.460 They got the money.

01:16:52.340 It's brick money, you know.

01:16:54.420 They said, listen, you're going to go through with the deal.

01:16:56.080 You're going to call.

01:16:57.180 your contact and you're going to go through with this deal and you're going to you're going to have

01:17:00.820 him come here and bring the cocaine here i said what are you talking about man well that's why

01:17:05.240 you have this money i'm like man you guys are i ain't doing nothing you know and they're getting 0.76

01:17:09.800 all threaded and all that shit well my luck the the one cop he starts counting it right they get 0.86

01:17:19.080 me there there's talking shit to me you know they're they're counting me he's like man you 0.72

01:17:22.880 know and and then like probably like about maybe i don't know maybe five minutes into it he starts 0.68

01:17:28.340 looking and he's looking for something and he calls his partner and he said and and he tells

01:17:34.680 his partner he didn't so the guy was a fucking banker before he was a cop no he worked at a bank

01:17:39.320 like a teller before he became a cop so he wasn't seeing no red and blue fibers in there 0.83

01:17:44.480 so i didn't have the red and blue fibers in this and i later ended up putting them in after this

01:17:49.860 because this happened yeah but he didn't cool ranch yeah yeah he didn't have no he didn't see

01:17:55.220 the red and blue fire had everything else had the watermark had the strip he's like man i don't know

01:17:58.940 what to think about this stuff he was it got all the stuff on it but i'm not seeing no fibers in

01:18:03.820 it it's just not making sense so they said well we're taking them in anyway so they took me in

01:18:08.840 they took her in and uh and then the secret service came a woman's secret service and she

01:18:16.000 said oh while you were in jail yeah they took us downtown right and what about the kid they let her 1.00

01:18:20.200 go no hell no they had her they put her in a cell too but they you know the secret service showed up

01:18:25.760 right and you know she's threatening me telling me we know this we know that we've been looking

01:18:30.320 she goes first she goes we've been looking for you we've been looking for you i'm like okay you

01:18:34.280 know whatever she goes where we're you know then find me cuz yeah she's trying yeah she's trying

01:18:39.160 she wants to know where my stuff is where my paper's at where this is at she's probably trying

01:18:43.400 to meet someone too 0.98

01:18:44.380 which is

01:18:44.780 who knows

01:18:45.940 yeah well who knows

01:18:46.820 with them right

01:18:47.360 because they're so

01:18:47.900 you know

01:18:48.520 you don't know

01:18:48.980 yeah you never know 0.66

01:18:49.700 but one thing she was doing 1.00

01:18:51.280 was threatening me 1.00

01:18:52.200 with my wife's sister

01:18:53.180 oh 0.99

01:18:54.260 right 1.00

01:18:54.680 she's like

01:18:55.240 you're going to tell me

01:18:56.580 what I want 1.00

01:18:57.100 or she's going to face 1.00

01:18:57.780 some charges 0.93

01:18:58.160 she's going to face 1.00

01:18:58.560 some charges

01:18:59.120 and I'm like

01:19:00.780 man what am I going to do

01:19:02.040 I didn't

01:19:02.320 because I had to get 1.00

01:19:03.340 my wife's sister out 0.98

01:19:04.560 on a good note

01:19:05.780 back then you had

01:19:06.600 like those burn phones

01:19:07.680 everyone

01:19:08.000 you know you could get them

01:19:08.760 at Walmart right

01:19:09.500 little $20 with the card

01:19:11.080 remember to scratch

01:19:11.680 the card off

01:19:12.660 put the number in it so we had i was like i was like a james bond criminal too never went into 0.55

01:19:18.200 that but i had uh surveillance anti-surveillance shit i had bug detectors i had like all kinds of 0.60

01:19:24.160 whacked out stuff man like you know just really had i could find hidden cameras and shit had this 0.59

01:19:29.960 little thing anyway i was real big into stuff like that and again safety right because here you know

01:19:35.640 we i didn't i i try i always wanted to keep it to where if anything ever happened it was just on me

01:19:41.200 got it you know that way i had natalie in the world still where she could help me while i'm

01:19:45.380 away right you don't i don't want her to go down too you know because then then it takes my my

01:19:50.260 access away right so y'all ended up getting married you and her yeah we ended up getting

01:19:53.340 married so okay got it so here it is i said okay i'll call her right they said we know you got your

01:19:59.560 stuff here you know uh pharaoh said that your mom or her mom is with her sister right now at your

01:20:06.300 house but she don't know where the house is and there's no way she could have known because it

01:20:10.480 was in Marshall, Illinois, man. We had, they flew into Indianapolis. I was in the cornfields, man,

01:20:15.600 like for real. Right. And, uh, and they said, so we want you to call her. Right. So I called Natalie

01:20:22.360 and, um, I said, Hey, listen, I'm, I'm here in Chicago. I'm not in a good position. You know,

01:20:29.320 they got your sister. And, uh, and she said, yeah, my mom's trying to figure this thing out

01:20:35.020 right now I said okay well you know there this is a serious situation it looks like I'm gonna be

01:20:40.640 going away for a while well what was awesome she she went right into she went right into

01:20:46.540 uh her movement and she got rid of everything everything like I mean I don't even know how

01:20:53.940 she did her mama had to help her right but like by the time they got there Natalie strung them

01:20:59.680 along right she kept stringing them along and by the time they got there it was completely empty

01:21:05.600 I had nothing in the house man the girl really saved my ass I get arrested they locked me up

01:21:11.540 for the money that was in there they let her go right I say it's my money my thing right

01:21:16.780 and my lawyer comes and he's telling me he's reading me the police report right and he reads

01:21:24.080 it off he says hey he goes you know they see weed on the they said they saw weed on the table right

01:21:28.560 and that's why they came in right that they seen it and boom that was their probable cause

01:21:32.400 i said well that's impossible man because the the hallway they'd have to be superman they'd have to

01:21:37.600 have x-ray vision to see the weed right and because there was a table around the corner so

01:21:42.400 he had someone go take pictures and then brought in the um brought in the security person that

01:21:47.760 actually like came with the cops and threatened to put him in jail if he lied so he told the truth

01:21:52.720 said that there was no they didn't see no weed and then he had the pictures and so when i went

01:21:57.280 back to court three weeks later my attorney read off the put the the cop on the stand and read off

01:22:03.900 the real police reporter uh yeah we seen weed on the table and that gave us the probable cause

01:22:08.820 so it's illegal it was all legal he said he goes you know officer he goes you're saying that you

01:22:13.520 were able to see it he goes well i have photos here with the data from the manager of the hotel

01:22:17.840 that says no furniture was moved and there's no way you could have seen a table right away the 0.72

01:22:23.100 prosecutors you know right they stopped the hearing fucking judge dismissed it and i walked 0.90

01:22:28.500 right out nuh-uh walked right out you were free i was free yeah couldn't believe it i remember i 0.92

01:22:33.580 called i called she was way back to texas because she was from texas with her mom

01:22:36.860 i remember calling her i'm like and she goes where you at how'd you call me with you know

01:22:40.580 because usually it's like you got a call from a correctional facility right yeah there's none of 0.60

01:22:44.840 that shit it's just me calling her and i said man they let me out today i just beat my case 0.68

01:22:49.480 she's like what and so then i ended up going there and then you know didn't you kept doing it 0.89

01:22:55.420 well no i stopped then i i went through i went into like a real bad depression and shit man 0.53

01:23:00.380 just i i couldn't because now i got secret service knowing who i am you know and like

01:23:05.960 and and then i felt like i was locked i i if i did they knew it was counterfeit so oh yeah but

01:23:11.320 they had to destroy it they had throw the money away you know and did you have any money hidden

01:23:15.640 anywhere at that time i mean i had money stashed here and i had but i was scared to go it i was i

01:23:20.020 was like i felt like the trees were watching man you know like it was like you know in the secret

01:23:24.460 service you don't really know know what they know right right like you they got secret weapons and

01:23:30.820 shit man they could see underneath yeah their name starts with secret secret yeah that's enough

01:23:34.460 right there like you know so so for me it was in my head and so i ended up i ended up watching this

01:23:40.960 movie man uh it was an arm wrestling movie with Sylvester Stallone over the top over the top yeah 0.94

01:23:47.220 and and it was about a dad and a kid man and and I just was missing my pops over the top's a gay 0.65

01:23:53.740 movie now I think it's like is it yeah yeah I think it's like over the top or whatever or I 0.78

01:23:58.420 don't know I don't remember what it is but it's something like that well back then it was an arm

01:24:02.180 wrestling movie yeah with Sylvester Stallone oh it's over the bottom I think over the bottom

01:24:06.160 nah we don't want to do no bottoms that's the one I'm thinking of we don't want to do no bottom

01:24:09.820 yeah this movie i remember for sure yeah over the top man it was awesome my bad so anyway i ended up

01:24:16.860 trying to find my pops i went i went on started looking for artha jay williams jr one pops up

01:24:21.860 in uh uh alaska your past started catching up with you then probably well now everything's

01:24:27.300 caving in right you know like my whole world is is like i can't i don't want to go near my presses

01:24:31.640 i don't want to go to the apartments i don't want to go here i don't want to drive that car i don't

01:24:35.260 You know, like, I'm in a bad depression, man.

01:24:37.900 Like, I don't, I just don't want to move.

01:24:39.640 So you find out where your dad lives?

01:24:41.540 Yeah, so I ended up watching this movie,

01:24:43.220 and now I got this thing.

01:24:44.000 So I find out there's a P.O. box in, what was it?

01:24:48.900 It was east of Anchorage, Chickaloon.

01:24:52.240 Chickaloon, Alaska, right?

01:24:54.020 Way the hell up there, man, right?

01:24:55.780 He got far away from you guys.

01:24:56.980 That's crazy.

01:24:58.060 Well, it was the lady he took off with, right?

01:25:00.240 She didn't want him to be around his kids,

01:25:02.700 so she made sure she took him as far away from us as she could you know that's crazy yeah it was

01:25:07.960 terrible but so I find him and I write a letter you know I say hey man if this is Art Williams

01:25:14.640 from Chicago this is your son man here's my phone number and I had a burnout phone

01:25:18.360 and it took about three weeks he called me and when he called me I was like you know I said hey

01:25:25.000 you know I didn't tell him what was going on I just say man I'd like to see him you know he said

01:25:29.600 come up here so this was before the 9-1-1 so you know you could still get into the airports you

01:25:35.820 know pretty easily you know and so i had fake ids too you know so i i ended up sneaking off to

01:25:41.040 seattle and then i flew out of seattle to anchorage and i and i brought natalie with me

01:25:46.580 and uh i don't know my dad picked us up with the that chick he took off and i could just see the

01:25:51.760 the the darkness on her face that i was showing up you know yeah and uh and he i remember driving

01:25:58.540 out to his house and just kind of tripping that i was in alaska like i'm a straight south side city 0.61

01:26:05.120 boy man and now i'm in a fucking wilderness you know and that shit's wilderness out there you know

01:26:10.400 yeah that's what i heard oh yeah it's beautiful though man nothing like it but like we when we 0.91

01:26:14.600 we got to his house he had another separate like little guest house and then he had like a little

01:26:18.320 trailer over here you know and so we went into this guest house and natalie went out to the

01:26:23.800 trailer actually and then uh and his wife went into their house and me and my pops just stayed

01:26:29.040 up for like two days man smoking that alaska perp you know because he he had the you know that

01:26:34.340 purple bud before people knew it was purple you know oh y'all was bent off that iceberg

01:26:38.280 we were just and we were talking shit and catching up was he like a crime guy i mean yeah well he was

01:26:44.180 a paper hanger at one time you know like when i was young he was running checks so it's kind of

01:26:48.920 kind of odd that I ended up running money right paper you know and at that time so when when me

01:26:54.320 and him were hanging when I went to Alaska you know and we're smoking and we're talking we

01:26:59.040 literally stayed up for like two days just catching up and I was telling him about everything

01:27:02.200 I opened up about what I did I had some of it on me I showed him some of it you break him off a

01:27:07.680 little well that's where all things went bad right that's when I ended up going to prison because

01:27:12.380 you know after I showed him so I call it gold fever right like when people when people when I

01:27:17.980 would show that's the reason i didn't show too many people because when you showed somebody

01:27:21.500 the bills and they and even and like even my canvas ones now people see can we print it on

01:27:27.760 paper right if because i print on canvas and i paint over it right but even those bills i've

01:27:33.380 had people say man that looks good it's on canvas it's not even on paper so when you would show

01:27:38.880 someone the real bill they get wet their mouth their brain gets wet everything gets wet you know

01:27:45.060 Like they just, I call it a go-fever because they would go into this,

01:27:49.580 just their eyes would change, you know?

01:27:51.220 Especially if he's up in Alaska, he's already half, he's into that shit. 0.99

01:27:54.160 Yeah, well, he, well, it got, it got nuts.

01:27:56.320 I mean, he, um.

01:27:57.160 So you showed him the money.

01:27:58.420 I showed him the money.

01:27:59.280 And then after we started moving around, he, he had his own thing going on.

01:28:02.660 He was growing bud in, um, like track truck, tractor trailers.

01:28:06.420 They bury them underground.

01:28:07.860 And then they, he would tap into the, the, the power line on the side of the highway.

01:28:11.920 Like he had some crazy shit going on too.

01:28:13.940 Man, y'all are wild.

01:28:15.240 Yeah, no, he was on one.

01:28:16.460 Like, I was like, man,

01:28:17.100 he's just scared to get electrocuted.

01:28:18.620 He's like, ah, man.

01:28:19.700 He was actually tapping into the power line, you know?

01:28:22.840 Damn.

01:28:23.380 And then they had this special material

01:28:25.680 that the airplanes couldn't look through.

01:28:28.560 Couldn't get through.

01:28:28.960 Like, they were on some.

01:28:29.920 This is early in the game, you know?

01:28:32.040 And so we were bonded by showing each other

01:28:35.300 what we were doing.

01:28:36.100 Yeah, I'll show you mine.

01:28:36.980 I'll show you.

01:28:37.540 Yeah, I'm doing the money.

01:28:38.840 You're doing the weeds, you know?

01:28:39.940 I'll show you my crime.

01:28:40.660 You show me your hands, kind of.

01:28:41.600 Yeah, that's pretty much what it was.

01:28:42.380 That's how we reunited, man.

01:28:43.680 like the crime things you know and uh and it was awesome man my dad was cool man he was funny man

01:28:49.140 he was he was he was um it sucked he had left you know i think for him you know he he's seen how i

01:28:55.040 was right like we we were cool man and and and and he felt i could feel the the like damn i wish i

01:29:02.220 would have known this cat you know like i wish i would have been around him more you know yeah he

01:29:06.360 probably you guys probably would have had a good time together good time yeah you know but so

01:29:10.260 But anyway, he started he started asking me if he could make if I could make more.

01:29:16.900 Right. And and and I was like, man, yeah, of course.

01:29:20.900 And then and then it's my dad. So I want to make him proud, you know.

01:29:23.720 And so but I came clean with him. I said, look, man, the reason I actually came to find you is because I got jammed up in Chicago.

01:29:30.420 And so I had to disappear. And he's and he said, well, can you still make the money?

01:29:35.500 I said, well, of course I can make it, but we have to change it.

01:29:38.260 i can't make it exactly the same because then they'll know it's me so some sort of element has

01:29:43.680 to be changed in it and so then he goes well can you do it and i'm like yeah i think were you

01:29:49.160 planning on doing it uh there was a thought because i knew i couldn't use the same recipe

01:29:54.280 you know but were you planning on making more no hell no i wanted to go up there and i didn't

01:29:58.320 want to do nothing man i just i just wanted my pops yeah yeah i just wanted my pops i didn't

01:30:03.140 want to make no money you know damn that's kind of crazy then that he asked you yeah well he's 0.53

01:30:08.180 a crime he's a crime crime guy man you know and then and then we're bragging about it hey look

01:30:12.660 this you know right so then maybe he thinks my son thinks it's cool too yeah you know and then

01:30:16.820 and even when i told him about what happened man he's like you gotta wait so there was even the

01:30:21.100 element that i pulled the fast one right right like that even that was impressive to him right 0.86

01:30:26.900 you got out i got out right and now you're here they don't know where you're at right fuck them 0.66

01:30:31.280 let's go right so so i told him i said listen i'm gonna do this i gotta go back to chicago 0.90

01:30:38.040 and I got to get some supplies and we'll ship them up here.

01:30:42.140 And so I had brought with me about $20,000 of the fake money.

01:30:50.600 I used to have a belt that I could put $10,000 in

01:30:53.320 and I could wear it around, you know.

01:30:55.820 And that's what I was showing them.

01:30:57.280 And so I said, here, listen, I'm going to leave this.

01:30:59.800 Let's leave most of it here and let's fly into Seattle

01:31:03.720 and then we'll drive across the country to Chicago.

01:31:05.740 we could spend a little money

01:31:08.140 check out get close

01:31:09.880 because you know

01:31:10.480 we haven't seen each other

01:31:11.920 for 22 years

01:31:12.960 yeah

01:31:13.340 right

01:31:13.640 and um

01:31:15.220 spend a little counterfeit cash

01:31:16.620 enjoy it

01:31:17.180 enjoy it

01:31:17.780 yeah go to Chicago

01:31:18.660 get the material

01:31:19.420 ship it back

01:31:20.180 and we did

01:31:21.480 we you know

01:31:22.220 so he left the stuff

01:31:23.340 with his wife though

01:31:24.780 and she hated me

01:31:25.680 and so she started

01:31:27.740 spending it in Alaska

01:31:29.160 giving it to her friends

01:31:30.600 telling her friends

01:31:31.620 who made it

01:31:32.420 telling it was fake

01:31:33.400 you know 0.94

01:31:33.620 buying moose meat and shit

01:31:34.920 just yeah

01:31:35.660 At Boomspeed, probably, yeah.

01:31:37.620 Fur hats, fur.

01:31:38.640 Fish.

01:31:39.420 Fur fish.

01:31:40.080 Fish made out of fur.

01:31:41.880 But they were spending it.

01:31:43.500 And I had specifically told him,

01:31:45.680 you cannot spend this here in Alaska.

01:31:48.840 You can't, you know?

01:31:50.280 Yeah.

01:31:50.600 Because it's fucking way up here, man.

01:31:52.760 Oh, you're done.

01:31:53.100 You know, you're done.

01:31:53.980 At least in the lower 48, you know,

01:31:56.280 you can move the money around.

01:31:57.640 So anyway, she did, though.

01:31:59.500 And not only did she,

01:32:00.720 but then she made sure she let the Secret Service

01:32:03.680 know who was making it

01:32:04.900 when it all came down right because when we were in Chicago so here I am in Chicago and I'm sitting

01:32:10.620 we're sending stuff back and um and then we see my sister and my sister my dad they get into it

01:32:17.580 my sister ain't as forgiving as I am she's kind of like man yeah yeah you know and she's even at me

01:32:24.660 like what what's the deal man what do you care about what do you care about this cat he left us

01:32:28.240 you know yeah and uh and so i didn't go back with him i shipped everything all the stuff and i said

01:32:34.500 i told him i had to go to texas to get one thing uh and why don't he fly back and then i'll come 0.66

01:32:39.900 and i i ended up leaving natalie and the baby up there and she was pregnant right with with in

01:32:45.760 alaska in alaska okay and so when i finally called her i went back to texas she goes why why aren't 0.91

01:32:51.080 you on the plane with your dad i'm like oh man i had to go here she goes fuck that you better i'm 0.76

01:32:55.720 pregnant dude what are you doing you know yeah and so i ended up getting the things i needed and i 0.94

01:33:01.880 fly i flew back to to anchorage but i stayed with uh a niece's daughter in anchorage when he when he

01:33:08.120 was out there and um and it's so so so weird how things happened and how fast but i was i was getting

01:33:15.100 a bad feeling i don't know it was weird like i just wanted to get out of there so i'm telling

01:33:18.500 Natalie i'm like hey we're leaving we're out here and and oh that's what it was when when when i

01:33:23.460 went to visit him he took me uh he took me to this biker party it was hell's angels right he

01:33:30.100 was real cool friends with one of the big dogs up there and uh and we went to this crazy ass

01:33:36.400 like gathering and he introduced me to the dude and then he then he told the dude that I was the

01:33:42.140 one that made the money and I looked at him like what are you telling this cat that I don't know

01:33:46.420 that I'm making money man I got pissed with him man real bad that's pretty shitty yeah it was

01:33:50.960 terrible man he started showing me colors of reason why he left you know there was a reason

01:33:55.620 he left because he wasn't that that that cool laughety dude there was something wrong you know

01:34:01.200 yeah and now i'm seeing it right and so after that happened when i got back to to to the house i told

01:34:06.900 hey pack up we're leaving we're getting out of here and uh and so then i ended up flying to

01:34:11.980 houston and one of my dudes picked up but the secret service was waiting for me in dallas

01:34:16.600 So unbeknownst to me, as I'm wanting to get out of Anchorage because of how he is,

01:34:22.720 Anise is working with the Secret Service the whole time.

01:34:25.760 His wife?

01:34:26.280 His wife.

01:34:27.320 Yeah, so they're getting ready to—

01:34:29.120 Why? Why would she do that?

01:34:30.400 She just didn't want me around. 1.00

01:34:31.580 She didn't want his kids around.

01:34:32.920 It was the whole reason he took off for 22 years, you know?

01:34:35.620 And so this was her way of just, like, get him out of here, you know?

01:34:39.400 So once you hit Houston—

01:34:41.260 Yeah. Once I hit Houston, my boy drives me up to Dallas to where Natalie's mom is and Secret Service were waiting for me.

01:34:47.140 They busted. They grabbed us. They said, we gotcha. And they did. You know, they had me.

01:34:51.540 I ended up going to prison. My dad ended up going to prison because he had guns in the house and he was a felon in possession.

01:34:58.340 And and then she she was the confidential informant. But when she went to court, she pleaded insanity.

01:35:05.320 and they oh no this woman was crazy right she pleads insanity i get three years my dad gets 1.00

01:35:11.800 six years or no he got four and a half years and then she pleads insanity and the judge takes her 1.00

01:35:18.140 trial and gives her six wow she gets six years because she was lying about it because she was

01:35:22.480 lying about it i got less than everyone it was wild on the day i get out at least you finally

01:35:28.980 knew where your dad was for four and a half years you know yeah he was in sheridan federal

01:35:32.440 correctional but yeah yeah but anyway well sad part though is the day i got out of prison he died

01:35:39.060 no yeah had a heart attack that morning in prison in prison oh man i'm sorry yeah yeah yeah i should

01:35:45.180 have just said that oh no man it's cool man my dad's laughing his ass off right now he ain't

01:35:49.160 tripping man you know i i need so the thing is is that's irony in life man right like when my when 0.81

01:35:55.800 i got so here you are i'm getting ready to get out of prison you're packing your stuff you're

01:35:59.660 happy you're going home you know there's no better feeling than getting your freedom back right and

01:36:04.100 you walk out the door and then you get handed you know a phone and they tell you your dad's dead

01:36:08.460 and so you go from one high to the next quick right and and i had to deal with that and then

01:36:14.540 i ended up getting my son right so i had now i got a 13 year old whose mom's a cop and she's calling

01:36:20.620 me pissed off because he's printing 20 bills at her house off her little printer probably just

01:36:25.300 trying to relate to his dad exactly right because i just got out of prison so now i got this kid

01:36:29.580 you know that i'm taking care of because she don't want him at the house and you know me and

01:36:34.480 him ended up going to prison together for what money i ended up going back with your own son

01:36:39.380 yeah no sorry dude yeah you weren't arrested at the same time no we weren't arrested at the same 0.58

01:36:48.860 time so so he's 13 bro i am yeah no it's crazy dog this shit's wild you can't i'm telling you 0.63

01:36:54.900 this shit's so nuts, man. Like I sit back and trip out on it. Yeah. I sent a picture to your 0.58

01:37:01.060 dude with my son rapping in prison. There it is right there. Oh, he raps? Yeah, he raps. He's a

01:37:06.780 badass rapper. Yeah. No, this is a crazy situation because in prison, it's real racy, you know?

01:37:11.980 Yeah. And I would imagine that. American Greed did a show on me. American Greed, you know?

01:37:17.860 Yeah, they did. Yeah. Episode 46, right? Early in the American Greed days. And so me and my son 0.94

01:37:24.260 are in prison together watching American Greed and they played one of his songs on TV right

01:37:30.380 so all the brothers heard him rapping and they do shows in prison like on on the holidays yeah

01:37:36.520 you know that's how Johnny Cash came in there and jammed so Johnny Cash didn't come here but

01:37:40.780 they uh on July 4th the brothers were doing a concert you know well like on Fridays you know

01:37:47.680 uh the brothers would do stuff on yeah there's like I think it's like a red white and black

01:37:51.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like that, right?

01:37:53.300 Yeah.

01:37:53.560 And so they came to him and they said,

01:37:55.060 hey, man, we heard you on TV, man, like rapping,

01:37:57.360 because we were like prison celebrities in there, right?

01:37:59.220 Yeah.

01:37:59.620 Because we were on TV and then I was from Chicago.

01:38:01.200 And y'all were printing money.

01:38:02.120 Yeah, we were like the coolest cats.

01:38:04.040 So you guys were in prison together?

01:38:05.460 Yeah, we were cellies together.

01:38:06.660 No, what are you talking about?

01:38:09.080 So you and your son were then-

01:38:10.780 That little boy, 18 years old, it was nuts.

01:38:13.320 Tight shit.

01:38:13.980 Yeah, well, I'll tell you, it was-

01:38:14.820 You and him were cellmates for going to jail

01:38:16.840 for counterfeiting together?

01:38:18.120 Yeah, so after my dad died and I get out, man,

01:38:21.360 long story short my son and me we're not really getting along right he's being tough kid his mom

01:38:27.560 can't take care of him because she's a cop she can't have that shit in her house and uh and we

01:38:32.460 connect through music you know like he was a real good musician you know he loved and he was only

01:38:36.680 like at that time like 13 and so I knew Johnny K who who uh he had groove sounds and he did like

01:38:42.840 disturbed fallout boys those guys came out of Chicago it was his studio and that was my dude

01:38:47.940 okay he's a producer big producer got it time you know he did disturb fallout boy yeah i don't know

01:38:52.460 a lot of uh producers in that area but understood yeah so we would hang out at his studio okay got

01:38:57.600 it and then my boys at this badass studio you know and he's and he's and he's they're letting

01:39:02.440 them rap in there and make beats in there and just do some really cool shit and and and he had

01:39:07.900 talent johnny was like hey man this kid you know this is before there were any other white rappers

01:39:11.940 besides eminem got it right and uh and so he made some song he made four songs and then started

01:39:17.800 getting expensive my boy was like hey look it let's keep it going but you you gotta throw me

01:39:22.460 a little something right because it's not like now where you could have a home studio you know

01:39:26.500 big boards and so that's what brought me back into printing because i was like okay you know

01:39:31.640 what i'm gonna make as much money as i'm gonna do one big blast and i'm gonna help my son

01:39:36.860 make it you know and uh yeah there's artists now that i think their parents are helping to make it

01:39:42.640 i think oh no yeah well i knew a lot of people plus i was you know so it just needed this yeah

01:39:47.400 the money you know so the only way i knew how to do it was you know at that point i was working out

01:39:51.400 at the at a shipyard and you know the river rat running up and down the river pushing barges and

01:39:57.020 shit so i was i was done with the work and myself anyway you know you're ready to try one more go 0.70

01:40:00.980 at it i was ready i was like let's do it you know and then i got my did you convince him or he

01:40:04.600 convinced you at first i didn't even let him know it was on me you know like this was my thing you

01:40:09.720 know oh so you were gonna make a money you're gonna make some money anyway yeah yeah i was

01:40:13.260 already at that point but this was a perfect reason to do it too because he needed money for

01:40:17.440 his career yeah for his career yeah so anyway now but at this point man all the technologies

01:40:22.880 changed they had scrapped all the freaking presses you know they had what year is this

01:40:27.480 ah that was like 2003 2000 yeah about 2004 okay because i went to prison in 2000 end of 2005 2006

01:40:36.240 got it um so so but it was hard to get the equipment that now at this time you got to

01:40:40.660 hook up the internet to use photoshop you can't just pop in the cd anymore you know so i pretty

01:40:46.880 much spent time hustling all the equipment up and getting it ready to go and uh me and my brother

01:40:52.300 broke into the paper place you know we actually cut off we're probably the only idiots to to break

01:40:57.080 into a paper company yeah like we cut a hole in the thing we're like gonna rope and it was really

01:41:01.880 oh it's nuts man and what's really nuts about it the paper company only closed one day a year 0.80

01:41:07.180 one day a year guess what day that was christmas fucking christmas we watched it so on christmas 0.84

01:41:13.360 you and your brother broke into the paper company yeah it was the best we got onto it we cut a hole 0.93

01:41:17.460 in the ceiling in the in the tin metal it was on christmas we blowed ourself down we actually got

01:41:23.460 into a fight in there because they had these big uh potato sacks right and these these rolls were

01:41:29.140 massive right like i had always got little butt rolls right you know but the real roll was massive

01:41:35.620 and weighed thousands of pounds and they were stacked up real high so me and my brother had

01:41:40.160 we had to scale all the way up to the thing and then we're sitting here with our legs up in the

01:41:44.520 air and we're pushing the roll off the thing and when it hit it cracked the concrete and then me

01:41:49.580 like a madman when we get down when you cut the roll it makes a snap boom real loud right because

01:41:55.960 that's tight you know and and I was stuffing the potato sacks and I had about 10 10 big potato

01:42:03.960 sack stuffed but i couldn't stop i kept stuffing and kept stuffing my brother grabbed me he's like

01:42:10.040 bro we gotta go we got enough we got enough to make 10 million and i'm like there's never enough

01:42:14.780 like and then we're getting into it and finally he's like well i'm leaving you here man i'm out

01:42:18.700 of here anyway he waited for me but we we got all the paper we had everything ready damn and then uh

01:42:25.200 and then one day i had just spoke this is what was crazy now they're doing they just did a rolling

01:42:32.220 stone thing on me i was a rolling stone magazine right so you were doing public speaking i was

01:42:36.640 doing public about being of counterfeiter as i'm counterfeiting this is what was so bizarre about

01:42:41.460 it's addiction really addiction it's all addiction could it stop well they flew me out to rochester

01:42:45.820 right document security systems it was a a check company um and so they wanted me to speak at some

01:42:52.720 conference and i thought it was a corporate check conference right i fly out there to rochester

01:42:57.760 and i got the same assistant that frank abigail had right frank abigail was the check guy from

01:43:03.820 catch me if you can well he had retired and so they wanted me to step in his place right so the

01:43:09.740 security company was trying to get you to come and work for them yeah yeah it was a it was a

01:43:13.520 check security they wanted me you know they would send me product it was a document security systems

01:43:19.180 dss and they so but you're still doing crime at this point i am yeah they don't know right they

01:43:24.080 know so you get there and what happens so i get there man and i'm sitting in the hotel uh bar with

01:43:28.600 the assistant and i'm looking around i'm like man everyone in here looks like a cop right like and

01:43:33.380 i ask her i'm like hey isn't this uh like a corporate check security thing she goes no this

01:43:38.540 is a homeland security conference for for fraud i'm like well what do you mean like everyone in

01:43:43.520 here is an agent she's like yeah these are all federal agents i'm like what i wanted to run out

01:43:48.340 the door man i couldn't believe it i was like oh this can't be happening this cannot be real you

01:43:53.800 speak at the conference yeah yeah but it was not easy though i'll tell you what happened so yeah

01:43:58.720 so here it is i don't even really drink much man right but i'm pounding whiskeys right yeah

01:44:04.440 sounds like it i'm i get to the room she was worried about me she's like she's like you're

01:44:09.480 gonna be all right i'm like yeah man i'm all right you know i'm just glad it finally at some point

01:44:13.220 this story that somebody was worried about you yeah yeah yeah you know what i'm saying like we

01:44:17.060 gotta have somebody be worried about us you know i got i got people now that love me man yeah good

01:44:21.660 For sure, but this is the first time I'd heard you say that in all of this.

01:44:26.320 Well, my mama always did.

01:44:27.800 Oh, she did? 0.99

01:44:28.340 Yeah, mama was always there.

01:44:30.580 But so anyway, so here I'm at the conference, and I go up to the room.

01:44:33.900 She wakes me up at like 6 in the morning telling me what to not eat,

01:44:36.720 what to eat, what I can eat, you know.

01:44:39.520 What's she worried about you dying for?

01:44:40.820 Did she get to speak that day?

01:44:41.840 Yeah, that morning.

01:44:43.040 I was the first speaker.

01:44:43.420 Don't want you being nervous.

01:44:44.280 Yeah, she don't want me being nervous.

01:44:45.520 Got it.

01:44:45.720 I was the first speaker.

01:44:46.800 It was at 8 o'clock in the morning, right?

01:44:48.480 So I go into the hall where it's all set up, and I walk into the front,

01:44:54.480 and I'm looking at who's speaking.

01:44:56.200 It was the guy that caught the son of Sam was speaking that day too, right?

01:44:59.920 The serial killer.

01:45:01.080 It was pretty cool, man, actually.

01:45:02.880 But I'm, like, nervous.

01:45:04.160 My stomach is just ripped, man, right?

01:45:06.980 And I'm looking, like, who's coming in?

01:45:09.100 And I'm thinking to myself, oh, man, it's 8 in the morning.

01:45:12.180 They're not going to be here, maybe 10, 20, 15.

01:45:15.460 Not too many people are going to show up, so I'll be all right.

01:45:17.820 yeah it fit a thousand people right literally man i'm not kidding like that hall stayed empty

01:45:25.820 till like two minutes before eight yeah i thought i won it was only like just a few people and i'm

01:45:32.960 like oh yeah they're still sleeping this is their vacation they're not gonna be getting up at eight

01:45:37.060 in the morning to watch some counterfeiter right man bro like in a matter of like two minutes man

01:45:43.240 it started filling up and the whole place was packed all agents with their badges and and i

01:45:50.540 start sweating like i'm i'm sick i don't know if they i don't know if they know what i've done

01:45:55.960 right back in chicago right i don't know i'm i'm thinking man am i being set up do they know are

01:46:01.120 they playing games with me are they like my brain was rattling right and uh and so she gives me some

01:46:07.320 water she sees me sweating i said man i gotta go to the bath so they hooked me up they put the thing

01:46:11.200 the mic on me getting ready to go and i'm i'm looking around it's loud you know and everyone's

01:46:16.100 sitting down and um and the in the in the present the present the the guy that was presenting

01:46:21.860 everybody he came up he goes hey you all right he goes you know let's test the mic and you know

01:46:25.980 we're about i'm this is how i'm gonna do this i'm gonna say this and this and i'm gonna call you up

01:46:29.420 okay i'm like all right cool you know and i said can i can i use the bathroom real quick

01:46:32.900 and uh she's like yeah it's right out the door so i i go out to the bathroom and i and i just

01:46:38.520 start throwing up I'm in the bathroom just throwing up there was a door that went outside

01:46:43.760 I kind of stumbled out the bathroom went outside and I'm talking to myself I'm like what the fuck

01:46:49.460 is wrong with you what are you doing you fucking man like I'm really like insane talking to myself

01:46:54.580 and they can hear you and they fucking heard me she comes out she comes running out she goes dude 0.86

01:46:59.720 dude she grabs the thing she goes we're we're canceling this you're not gonna you're not speaking 0.94

01:47:04.740 And I'm like, what do you mean?

01:47:06.340 She's like, they've listened to everything you just said right now.

01:47:09.860 I killed them all.

01:47:10.880 Remember that guy?

01:47:11.700 He's like, I killed them all.

01:47:13.760 Who was that guy?

01:47:14.420 They heard everything.

01:47:15.280 I was talking about, what the fuck am I doing?

01:47:17.420 So I said, no, man, we're not going to cancel this, man.

01:47:20.440 We're not going to cancel it.

01:47:21.460 So I walked back in there.

01:47:23.880 We're not going to cancel it?

01:47:25.620 Well, that's the problem with me.

01:47:27.000 I'm stubborn, dog, right?

01:47:28.440 Like, that's the reason I ended up making the money.

01:47:30.840 Robert Durst muttered, killed them all, of course.

01:47:33.460 So I go back in there, and it's silence now, and they're all staring at me.

01:47:39.060 The first question you asked me, how does it feel when people are staring at you

01:47:42.900 and all that stuff you were talking about?

01:47:44.340 Yeah, like the moon?

01:47:45.000 Yeah, like the moon.

01:47:46.400 Yeah, that's what I was going through, right?

01:47:48.220 That's what it felt like.

01:47:49.740 And they walked me up to the front.

01:47:53.380 The presenter, he starts.

01:47:55.180 Then he calls me up.

01:47:56.480 There's no way you got through it.

01:47:57.940 Oh, listen to this.

01:47:58.780 It was awesome, actually.

01:48:00.120 I get up there, and I look, and I freeze.

01:48:03.460 Like I'm frozen for sure. Like I can't move dog. Right. And there was a,

01:48:08.780 there was an older woman that had this silver hair. I'll never forget her. 0.95

01:48:12.080 She was about 15 rows in and she just lipped, lipped it. Uh, 1.00

01:48:18.000 you're going to be all right. I could, I could read her lips. It was weird.

01:48:20.640 She goes, you're going to be all right. That's what she kept saying. Like,

01:48:23.420 and, and then I, then I just came out of it. I said, you know, I'm,

01:48:26.760 I'm a little froze right now.

01:48:28.300 It's the first time I've ever been in a room with this many agents.

01:48:31.380 Usually I'm getting hauled off to jail and they all laughed.

01:48:33.960 Okay, got it.

01:48:34.360 Right?

01:48:34.820 And once they laughed, then I just started like going in with everything.

01:48:39.780 And it was amazing.

01:48:41.080 I ended up speaking for like 45 minutes.

01:48:43.460 I took questions for like 30 minutes.

01:48:46.120 They ended up sitting me next.

01:48:47.620 They sit me at the head table next to the Homeland Security secretary.

01:48:52.500 Right?

01:48:52.760 And we were joking about how he was making fake IDs when he was in high school.

01:48:57.620 And so like what looked to be terrible, right?

01:49:01.380 turned out to be amazing you know but i had to go back to chicago and i was still printing money

01:49:07.180 i was going to anyway but now i'm having second thoughts like there was all kinds of things going

01:49:11.860 on when i was flying back to the city okay you know like i i was like man am i really gonna do

01:49:16.760 this you know when i actually got this opportunity right here that maybe could actually take care of

01:49:20.840 me you know right and when i get home you know my son's being whatever and i i do a few things and

01:49:27.960 When I come back to the house, he's printing money, 20s.

01:49:31.240 He's one of his friends.

01:49:33.080 We get into it.

01:49:34.020 He runs out.

01:49:34.920 I run out after him.

01:49:37.020 You know, I'm trying to tell him he don't have to do this,

01:49:39.060 and he throws the money at me while a cop is passing by.

01:49:42.220 No.

01:49:42.780 Yeah, yeah.

01:49:44.480 And the cop gets out.

01:49:45.620 I'm trying to pick the money up off the ground.

01:49:48.700 And the cop, I tell the cop my name, and right away, boom,

01:49:52.740 and it was over, right?

01:49:54.020 They called the secret.

01:49:54.800 He arrested me, called the Secret Service.

01:49:56.580 secret service was toying with me actually because they they were like you know we know

01:50:02.340 this is your son's money and all this like we're not we're not looking at you but i had some i had

01:50:08.600 some of that old money that i got busted with you know from that was buried and i played with it a

01:50:14.120 little bit and and and it popped right and they knew and so they they pulled me in and they said

01:50:19.980 we we know we know what you're doing we know you got a whole new off you know a whole new place

01:50:24.140 and you got paper and you got the ink and you know we got we're about to get you man you're

01:50:27.960 going down for the rest of your life like because because if you get busted with the presses and

01:50:32.640 the files and the plates and stuff you're done got it for sure yeah you're done right so what

01:50:36.740 is so what happened is they ended up they ended up um they said they knew where it was at they

01:50:42.960 took me in and and my boys let me know what happened i wasn't there but they literally had 0.65

01:50:48.420 helicopters and SWAT teams and they fucking busted in my space but what happened though is three 0.83

01:50:54.300 weeks before that the old man that owned the building Rick and Benny he owns Rick and Benny's

01:50:59.540 it's a bread shop he's dead now but he had sold it it was an old warehouse old dingy warehouse

01:51:05.280 and he had sold it before before this happened and told me that I had to get all my shit out of

01:51:11.220 there so the secret service yeah they knew that I was there but they didn't hit me I don't know

01:51:17.260 why they waited and so i ended up moving everything out because he told me to move everything and then

01:51:22.040 he had a cleaner come in and clean everything so when they kicked in the door there was nothing in

01:51:26.720 there it was insane nothing i wouldn't be sitting here right now if if there was yeah they and they

01:51:32.220 were messing with me they're like we got you now we got you we're going in and there was nothing

01:51:36.460 the press was gone the paper was gone ink was gone everything was gone it was it was so like

01:51:43.260 blessed and cursed bro it's kind of like this perfect mix bro perfect mix man but but did you

01:51:48.980 have to um testify against your son or anything like that no no he didn't go to jail so how do

01:51:55.140 you and your son end up in jail together so after this happens they kick in the doors whatever i go

01:52:00.040 ahead and take the beef right i got probably the shortest paragraph federal indictment in history

01:52:04.920 literally one paragraph right they give me seven years 105 months i go down my son's left he's 15

01:52:11.380 well he kept doing it right he he got he's smart kid right he's seen some of the stuff he gets the

01:52:18.920 paper he's like he's getting everything my brother's still out there playing with him so him and my

01:52:22.560 brother whatever right and i'm in prison and i'm gone for like three years now were you able to

01:52:27.820 help give him advice and suggestions about it from prison no no we didn't really talk much you know

01:52:32.580 that was it you know i didn't see him at all i saw him three years later so what happens is i get a

01:52:37.200 call i call home and my sister says hey you need to call karen the day my son turned 18

01:52:44.920 the secret service went and arrested him as soon as he became an adult they pretty much let him

01:52:50.440 play money man right because they're like the discharge is not that good if you're a kid yeah

01:52:55.800 your kid nothing's gonna happen as soon as he hit 18 they kicked he hit his stories he got a crazy

01:53:01.000 story how they grabbed him but he was on the run a little bit and they grabbed him finally and so

01:53:05.700 So my sister tells me what's going on, and he gets sentenced to, I think it was like 36 months.

01:53:13.980 So now I'm already been gone for three years.

01:53:16.640 Now he's 18, and they ship him to Forest City, Arkansas.

01:53:21.000 I'm in Big Spring, Texas, at a real shithole.

01:53:24.000 I've been trying to get out of there.

01:53:25.620 And they end up transferring me from there to Forest City.

01:53:28.940 Wow.

01:53:29.260 Yeah, and it was crazy because when I got there, I knew he was there, right?

01:53:35.380 So as soon as I went through processing, you know, go through all that shit all day, as soon as I hit the dorm, some of the white guys came up to me.

01:53:43.560 Hey, you know what's your name?

01:53:44.600 I told him, he's like, oh, your son's here.

01:53:46.560 And I'm like, yeah, I know.

01:53:47.700 And I need to see him as soon as I hit the yard tomorrow, right?

01:53:50.320 They were like, shit, you don't have to wait till the yard.

01:53:52.100 Your son's in the dorm.

01:53:53.420 I'm like, what?

01:53:54.360 He's like, yeah, he's here in this dorm.

01:53:56.380 He's in the TV room right now.

01:53:57.940 Damn.

01:53:58.420 I'm like, what?

01:53:59.480 So I haven't seen my son for three years, right?

01:54:02.200 and I beelined to the TV room

01:54:08.340 and when I opened up the TV door

01:54:11.420 and he was sitting right there on the front thing

01:54:13.600 looking up at the TV with his little headphones on

01:54:15.700 and when he seen me man

01:54:17.780 he just got up and just ran straight to me man

01:54:22.220 I'm tearing up because my boy's in prison

01:54:24.320 so as happy as I am to see him

01:54:26.620 I'm devastated inside that he's here

01:54:29.780 that both y'all are there

01:54:31.340 Yeah. Just devastated. Well, I can handle me. My life's been hell. I don't want him going through it, you know? And this is what was cool though, man. Here it is, some of the hardest cats, man, in this TV room. And it's just pure silence. And you see this guy crying over there and this guy crying over there and that guy crying over there. Like people were thinking they're their kids and they're seeing me and my son just embracing. I just held them, man.

01:54:55.140 damn and that's where I learned to become a dad man the next two and a half years man

01:54:59.460 I started I've been painting I paint you know and so in prison that's what I did

01:55:03.980 and then my son was music so he he was writing lyrics and so our plan was yeah that's me in

01:55:09.640 prison with one of my first pieces you know and so so the the plan the grandmaster plan was you

01:55:16.620 know that that he was gonna do music and I was gonna do art you know and um and so you know when

01:55:24.300 I got out in 2013.

01:55:26.200 I got out a month before him.

01:55:28.160 They wouldn't let us out together.

01:55:30.080 The counselor said, we're going to let you out first

01:55:32.880 so you can get yourself situated.

01:55:35.140 Then we're going to let your son out.

01:55:36.440 Okay.

01:55:37.300 And so when I got out, you know, I had an unbelievable community around me.

01:55:47.080 You know, like when I got out, my attorneys were there.

01:55:49.900 My friends were there.

01:55:50.660 They got me a job.

01:55:51.480 They got me a place.

01:55:52.320 They got me a car.

01:55:53.000 I had to go through my struggles it wasn't easy you know and then my son got out he ended up

01:55:58.340 getting his CDL and then he started driving a trash truck now he's doing amazing he's been out

01:56:02.660 13 years we've both been out 13 years now he just bought his first house out yeah it's amazing he

01:56:08.640 just had a baby you know he's doing amazing he's writing new music now his music is freaking

01:56:13.380 awesome like he's really getting down on his music and then me you know I I went through the art

01:56:18.380 thing you know i first two years out i almost actually went back to printing he busted me

01:56:23.380 he busted me with some with some chemicals and your son did yeah yeah so like two years after

01:56:28.920 this he said this ain't it yeah i well it just like it was a bunch of things like i i you know

01:56:35.980 i i just met someone was about to have a baby you know and it just felt like deja vu all again right

01:56:41.160 and so I ended up walking away from it and um and I ended up one a big time cat in Chicago his

01:56:48.680 name's Joe Cacciatore he owns Lakeside Bank he took me under his wing and he said look at man

01:56:53.360 I don't want you to go back to prison man I want to show you how to make it you know and uh and

01:56:57.940 damn here it is 13 years later you know and I've had five galleries I've had unbelievable shows

01:57:02.420 from Rose Royce to Satai I've got to meet some of the most amazing people and you know just life

01:57:08.480 has been so fucking awesome a better community too it just shows you what a community can do

01:57:13.460 really like what about um tell me about like when you look at like crime and the effect that it's

01:57:19.920 had like on your family overall like what do you think about that i mean for for me like

01:57:26.440 what would i what i what i because i've mentored guys getting out of prison i speak at schools

01:57:32.420 i've spoke at schools you know to talk about how to overcome stuff whether it's mental illness

01:57:37.040 whether it's drugs, whether it's crime, right?

01:57:39.920 Because crime can be addictive, too.

01:57:42.560 Yeah, I'd never thought of it as an addiction

01:57:44.040 until I spoke with you about it.

01:57:45.520 And it almost seems like a familial addiction, too.

01:57:48.200 They say it's worse than heroin, counterfeiting.

01:57:51.200 If you looked it up, I think it says that counterfeiting

01:57:53.480 is more addictive than heroin, you know?

01:57:55.600 Wow, bring that up?

01:57:56.460 Yeah, there's something on it.

01:57:58.700 You know, for me, it's like,

01:58:00.460 so I have a few cats that I've kept in touch with

01:58:05.160 that I was in prison with.

01:58:06.240 Yeah.

01:58:07.040 but sadly, almost, you know, 78% of people go back.

01:58:13.380 Small percentage of us that make it out.

01:58:15.700 There's even a smaller percentage that make it into something really big.

01:58:19.180 You know, so what I've done with my art, with my life,

01:58:21.900 and with, you know, is very unusual.

01:58:25.340 Right. Well, that part I get.

01:58:27.100 Yeah.

01:58:27.460 But do you think, what effect do you think that crime had,

01:58:29.840 like on just like your, like, you know what I'm saying?

01:58:31.680 Because you had it, it's very wild that you had this happen

01:58:34.800 in your own father-son relationship

01:58:36.720 and then had it in the second generation of it.

01:58:39.360 Well, here's the thing.

01:58:40.420 The crime actually, the streets,

01:58:43.520 it's even deeper than the crime.

01:58:44.820 It's the whole aspect of the streets

01:58:46.780 and the mental illness with my mom. 0.95

01:58:49.120 Those things, I think, allow me,

01:58:52.480 they've taught me how to deal with shit now, right?

01:58:55.500 Like before what would happen,

01:58:58.000 the reason I would always go back to the crime

01:58:59.780 is because the stress, right,

01:59:02.140 of being able to survive, right?

01:59:03.920 I need to eat.

01:59:04.480 I need shoes.

01:59:05.140 I need to take care of my kid.

01:59:06.360 Like people have these stresses.

01:59:07.680 Everyone does, right?

01:59:08.480 Some people deal with it differently, right?

01:59:11.640 Me, I was trained since from the first time breaking into the meters, I was, the training was to just like an animal to hunt.

01:59:20.200 Right, you'd learn that.

01:59:21.060 Yeah, I learned that.

01:59:22.040 That's what, that's where, you know.

01:59:23.120 Yeah, I don't blame you.

01:59:24.160 And so there wasn't like, there wasn't the guilt.

01:59:27.940 There wasn't the shame.

01:59:28.820 There wasn't that part of it.

01:59:30.260 But the crime in the streets and everything I went through, it's made me now, like, aware.

01:59:39.040 Like, I see through a lot of things that other people don't see.

01:59:42.080 But looking back, do you think, yeah, do you have, like, was there any situations that you caused, like, by passing all that fake money?

01:59:51.380 Like, did it ruin some people's business or anything like that?

01:59:55.160 Did you have to make any, like, amends with that sort of situation?

01:59:57.580 No.

01:59:57.840 The more of the amends that I needed to make was with my son, you know, and my kids and the people that that relied on me that that that I, you know, I wasn't there for.

02:00:11.200 Right. Like even even when I went back for seven years, you know, Natalie was still had the three babies down in Austin, you know, and I didn't even know I didn't even get to meet the young one till like four years later.

02:00:23.180 wow and so the things that i regret are are more family you know i i would i i didn't sell drugs

02:00:30.780 and i wasn't into all the other stuff you know so for me the money was almost like well they're

02:00:35.440 doing it shit you know like why can't i you know and and then i was always doing good with it so

02:00:40.080 whether that was to justify me doing or not i just i didn't ever feel that guilt for it you know 0.74

02:00:45.400 and um did anyone ever come to you and say you passed this much fake money with me and this is

02:00:50.840 a problem no no no no i've had people come to say hey man i got one of your bills and i loved it

02:00:56.780 right like people even even now there's a couple people in the city that had had some of them that

02:01:01.860 actually framed them are they still in circulation no i don't know maybe you know the money was good

02:01:06.800 do you if you even have one will you send it to me so i can have one i will you will yeah i will

02:01:10.540 yeah i actually brought you one no you did no i brought you a hundred but not what i brought you

02:01:15.240 something though no i mean it was it was it was a wild time man you know and then like oh yeah

02:01:19.880 here we go yes counterfeiting money can become a psychological or behavioral addiction while it's

02:01:24.860 not classified as a substance addiction criminologists and psychologists recognize

02:01:28.520 that the process of committing high stakes financial fraud can trigger the exact same

02:01:32.660 neurological reward pathways as gambling stealing or substance abuse uh the high of counterfeiting

02:01:39.260 comes from the combination of chemical rush of the crime the artistic obsession and the illusion

02:01:43.700 of ultimate control dang bro that sounds like some shit i would love to do but i just wasn't 0.77

02:01:50.160 brave enough you know i did that fucking nose crime baby yeah yeah yeah cocaine yeah no the 0.89

02:01:55.820 money man like even now so when i i i print sheets of money right now like but it's for work right 0.91

02:02:01.620 it's for your art it's canvas and i paint over it but i still get that same when when i see that

02:02:06.900 sheet coming out and i could do it legal like it just warms my i just get like all giddy man

02:02:12.000 Do you think that people should be allowed to counterfeit money?

02:02:14.980 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

02:02:17.460 Well, because money is just like a – it's like kind of a social construct that we have.

02:02:20.540 It's like this, you know –

02:02:22.640 Well, see, the thing about money, you know, like my things –

02:02:26.200 I think we should be allowed to keep more of it.

02:02:28.380 So I think that we're taxed too much, right?

02:02:30.720 I agree with that.

02:02:31.440 You're taxed on what you do.

02:02:32.560 You're taxed on what you buy.

02:02:33.620 You're taxed on your car.

02:02:34.540 You're taxed on this.

02:02:35.260 Like before the 1900s, there was no tax, right?

02:02:38.160 and so like there was like even me i love to barter i barter a lot man i trade paintings for

02:02:44.720 cars for this for that i love to barter right so so like should people be allowed to print no

02:02:50.800 neither should have i i mean it was wrong you know these days it's like our government is just

02:02:54.400 printing money they're just siphoning money out like they give they're giving money away to these

02:02:59.500 different like um i think they gave up i think they gave up i think i think that they gave they

02:03:04.920 they knew that this thing's going to collapse the society you mean well the financial system

02:03:10.020 that they set up it's 40 trillion the whole man like you can't there's no way to get out of it

02:03:13.460 impossible right and they know that and so like for me i look at it i analyze it like i think they

02:03:19.280 gave up already there's going to have to be a reset there's going to have to be some sort of

02:03:22.780 and that's what the the digital dollar is going to be right it's going to be a reset i just hate

02:03:27.060 that it's going to be programmable right that's what they need to get rid of like what do you

02:03:30.820 mean when you say that well if you look it up digital currency have them look it up and pro

02:03:35.080 it's all programmable which means they could say hey you can't buy gas on tuesdays and guess what

02:03:40.340 your card will not work on tuesdays so it's programmable they could give it direction if

02:03:44.820 they have certain coins they are but bitcoin isn't necessarily programmable right bitcoin ain't but

02:03:49.580 the u.s the u.s uh the digital dollar will be okay got it a u.s digital dollar is a proposed

02:03:55.880 central bank digital currency that would be issued and backed directly by the federal reserve

02:04:00.760 as a digital form of physical cash.

02:04:03.400 Government-backed, unlike decentralized cryptocurrencies

02:04:06.160 like Bitcoin or private stablecoins,

02:04:10.820 CBDC, the Central Bank Digital Currency,

02:04:14.440 would be official legal tender backed by the U.S. government.

02:04:18.280 It would represent a direct digital liability

02:04:20.340 of the Federal Reserve available to the general public.

02:04:22.840 Wow.

02:04:23.240 Ask if it's programmable.

02:04:24.400 They don't want to tell you that part.

02:04:25.920 Just put it in there.

02:04:26.560 Is it programmable?

02:04:28.540 Because it for sure is.

02:04:30.760 And that's the thing that people need to be asking questions about.

02:04:33.840 Is it programmable?

02:04:34.720 Whether a U.S. digital dollar would be programmable is one of the most heavily debated aspects of its potential design.

02:04:40.000 And the Federal Reserve has explicitly stated it would oppose making it programmable.

02:04:43.920 For retail users.

02:04:44.740 For retail users.

02:04:45.780 So what are you saying that means?

02:04:47.200 So what happens is that just like they got these cars coming out where they could turn them off, right?

02:04:53.020 They'll be able to turn your money off really easy.

02:04:55.320 Like easier than it's ever been in human history.

02:04:58.360 so throughout human history it started with bartering and then coins and then paper right

02:05:03.700 the human has always had the ability to trade something for something right right and you can

02:05:10.200 do it in a private setting or a public setting right with this there will be no more private ever

02:05:17.160 that's gone and some people say well if you're not doing anything wrong but what happens is

02:05:21.660 is you can see through time that laws change where you thought it wasn't wrong this day is

02:05:26.820 not wrong this day right and that's where this gets dangerous because like explain that to me

02:05:31.520 a little bit better what you think it's kind of like the uh the truckers that were in canada that

02:05:35.180 were protested and then the canadian government turned their accounts off got it right i'm sure

02:05:40.260 you remember that right and it's just like kanye west when he was like speaking out against um

02:05:44.460 i don't know exactly what it was but i don't know if it was like jewish people or it's just some

02:05:48.600 things he said or things about the record industry at some point they cut off some of his oh yeah

02:05:52.700 debank you and all that shit yeah they debanked him yeah this they won't have to debank you they'll

02:05:56.400 just turn it off it's just programmable AI is not being too honest right now about this because

02:06:02.780 it's saying it possibly because these cats here they don't tell you the truth all the time

02:06:06.840 and and but there's the engineers believe me they're putting the programmables in the in the

02:06:13.560 in the digital dollar with the digital dollar then uh be counterfeitable or no it's a good

02:06:18.560 question we could try we could try man i would love to try it we can't use paint on this though

02:06:23.740 no we just have to figure out how to break into the system but no i mean this here's the thing i

02:06:28.600 i hope that you'll have the states that uh that pass like florida's passed laws uh where you can't

02:06:36.420 refuse cash you know but i you know they're in other countries there are you see all these kids

02:06:42.460 are raised on their phone paying with their phone yeah right that's crazy to me like i see that and

02:06:47.360 I'm like, man, I don't even like to have my phone on me, right?

02:06:51.520 And you're letting it, like, do everything for you,

02:06:54.340 from your money to your life to your social media to your dating.

02:06:59.280 We've just gotten so addicted.

02:07:00.820 We've gotten so used to it.

02:07:02.040 I think it's hard to separate that.

02:07:03.460 And I think a lot of people don't realize the depth of the surveillance, you know?

02:07:10.120 Well, no, they got flat cameras going up.

02:07:12.080 They got, you know, I mean, it's getting really interesting, you know?

02:07:15.280 and and you know for me because i was a ghost i i pay attention to that stuff real carefully yeah

02:07:21.940 not because i'm doing anything wrong it's because i want to be free yeah at the end of the day you

02:07:27.600 know this this is what i look at this country you know like i love this country i've been on every

02:07:31.760 road that there is probably right i've been in so many towns in this country man and i've watched

02:07:36.900 the middle middle the middle part of the country just disappear right where where there was a time

02:07:42.720 where I would drive through a town

02:07:43.800 and it looked a little bit alive

02:07:45.300 and then five years later

02:07:46.720 drove through it

02:07:47.440 and it had boarded up windows

02:07:48.940 and everything, right?

02:07:49.520 We've seen the same.

02:07:50.420 And that's sad.

02:07:51.120 Yeah.

02:07:51.340 Oh, it's heartbreaking.

02:07:52.380 You know, it's a scam.

02:07:52.720 Well, it's just like,

02:07:53.460 yeah, it feels like our government

02:07:54.500 has just sold everything out

02:07:55.960 that was good from here.

02:07:57.060 It's like they've let it,

02:07:57.880 like, just let it be siphoned out.

02:07:59.400 Yeah, I think they gave up.

02:08:00.880 I think they gave up.

02:08:01.800 I don't know.

02:08:02.340 Did they give up

02:08:03.260 or were they,

02:08:04.640 I mean, it seems a lot more

02:08:05.860 like they were...

02:08:07.320 Well, they were siphoning.

02:08:08.380 Now they gave up, right?

02:08:09.420 Now they're looking like,

02:08:10.200 just let's get what we can it's gonna it's gonna get reset the digital dollar divide right here it

02:08:15.660 says um the anti-cbdc act would bar the federal reserve from issuing piloting or implementing

02:08:23.280 any digital currency design for general public use the bill's supporters led by representatives

02:08:27.940 tom emmer french hill uh well this is awesome that they're filing a bill for this this is the

02:08:35.380 first let me see this site risks of government surveillance and programmable money pointing to

02:08:39.580 china's digital yuan as a cautionary example of state control over individual financial behavior

02:08:44.880 banking industry groups argue that retail cbdcs would enable consumers to bypass commercial banks 0.80

02:08:51.480 entirely potentially destabilizing credit intermediation i so china already does it

02:08:58.020 they do the programmable right but if that becomes here then it's like yeah if you didn't

02:09:02.880 spend your money appropriately it would just be cut off or also yeah no more buying cocaine

02:09:07.680 right which is good for me which is good for me but but also if you if you spend a money where

02:09:15.020 they don't they don't like it or you're paying for a service that they don't like they could

02:09:18.540 cut your money off if it's something that they deem that isn't right or if you're um even paying

02:09:24.460 to see you say you're paying to see a speaker that says things that the government doesn't like

02:09:28.420 they could cut your money off yeah it's terrible man i mean that's super scary yeah no it's you

02:09:34.760 know like but you know my hope is is like you know well the good thing is I'm learning how to create

02:09:39.900 currency with my art right like so so now that I'm an artist you know like I it's been 13 years

02:09:46.460 10 years professional artists you know the first time it you know that I got into the industry was

02:09:52.640 when I met Arnold Schwarzenegger I got to go out to his house and have a show sold a bunch of art

02:09:57.340 and wow oh it was badass man I mean here I am two years out of prison shit ain't working

02:10:02.360 can't get nothing going you know the catch there me is on right there and um here it is i feel like

02:10:09.020 i'm about to go back to printing catch tory kind of you know scoops me in i work for him a little

02:10:14.620 while and then i ended up going to florida i remember you telling me about some of this and

02:10:19.720 being in a show yeah i was in a show before we get into something else let me just i want to go

02:10:24.200 a little bit further about like because like bitcoin is like because say something is a money

02:10:33.160 right it's just because we all agree that money has value right like if tomorrow everybody just

02:10:38.140 agreed it didn't have value then it wouldn't it wouldn't and and that goes for a lot of things

02:10:43.380 like and i and i i i reference art because like really what does how do i sell a painting for 10

02:10:50.840 grand that i sold for a thousand five years ago right right how do i do that how do i make it

02:10:55.420 valuable right and it's the same thing with paper and actually in on the old money the 1800s money

02:11:00.540 it looks like little pieces of art and the reason they did that is because them old timers didn't

02:11:05.420 want to give up their gold right so they had to make the paper look valuable right so if you look

02:11:11.520 at look at this money man some of this stuff is beautiful right look at look at the educational

02:11:16.060 series the 1896 educational series i mean that thing is is is just unbelievable and and so they

02:11:22.580 had they had to make this stuff look valuable and then they made gold illegal right to get the

02:11:27.800 old-timers to give up the gold like look at this stuff it's a five dollar bill you see that that's

02:11:31.900 nobody's seen no five dollar bill like that look how beautiful that is it looks like a piece of

02:11:36.520 art yeah right so they they it's it's all about really kind of trickery a little bit a little

02:11:42.060 psyop right you you you you give and then the way they created the system right the system for us

02:11:47.880 really kicked in after world war ii right that's when they really created the financial structure

02:11:52.700 right uh how america would loan money to different countries and then they would buy goods and then

02:11:57.740 it would create this system right but what happened is they just dug too deep into it right i mean it

02:12:03.720 could have been an unbelievable system right but then people started manipulating things that happen

02:12:08.000 in certain countries there's sort of this i mean we just had a guy on who was talking about uh

02:12:12.280 secret societies that like manipulate things at a higher level way higher so now this country has

02:12:17.900 to like we have immigrants that are going from here because we cause starvation here or we stopped 0.97

02:12:22.920 we we put a like a fuel uh uh embargo here and so now this country is going to behave like this 0.61

02:12:29.640 and so it's like and they're all betting on that at a higher level i want to i want to get this

02:12:34.000 point out there Franklin uh President Franklin Roosevelt signed Executive Order 6102 on April

02:12:39.340 5th 1933 which largely outlawed the private ownership of gold coin bullion and certificates

02:12:46.880 in the United States the Great Depression widespread bank failures caused citizens to

02:12:51.400 hoard gold shrinking the circulating money supply so but then when they bought it back

02:12:56.840 sorry but when they bought it back from them I know that they bought it they made everybody kind

02:13:02.920 of give their gold and then they sold it back to them at a cheaper uh at a cheaper rate yeah

02:13:07.480 let me see that americans had to turn in their gold to a federal reserve bank by may 1st 1933

02:13:13.160 the government paid citizens 20.67 dollars per troy ounce of gold um yeah 10 years in prison if

02:13:21.740 you didn't do it yeah is that what it says violations violations carry penalties of up

02:13:25.760 to a ten thousand dollar fine or 10 years in prison and then in january 1934 fdr raised the

02:13:31.720 official price of gold to $35 per ounce, increasing the treasury's value and devaluing the dollar.

02:13:39.300 So they gave 20 and they raised 35. I mean, money, like even like I look at how they change,

02:13:46.040 like when they changed the bill to the new purple thing, like that, that really was fascinating to

02:13:51.720 me that I was able to create something that caused them to change the whole system. You know,

02:13:57.300 are you sure that that was the cause? Oh yeah. I mean it, yeah, they need the paper, you know,

02:14:01.460 the paper they there was too many people doing it you know they had they had to fix it they had to

02:14:05.940 fix it you know but you know and and soon you know like like you I I look at my art kind of

02:14:12.800 like historic art because soon there won't be currency soon there won't be paper currency you

02:14:17.040 know right and so for me it's almost like I'm I'm preserving history through my pieces that every

02:14:23.040 piece I make that it's it's going to be historical because a lot of it's printed on actual money

02:14:27.740 oh yeah the canvas yeah i print yeah i love to print yeah maybe one time you're in town i'll

02:14:32.480 print with you there you go there's a sheet of money bro yeah yeah i'll give you one i'll give

02:14:38.300 you a little one dog yeah but i paint right over it man i love it you know and look at that now

02:14:42.520 now this sheet on the thing that's just popping oh no it's awesome man i love it yeah so so i

02:14:48.440 still get to print you know like yeah it's just it's just awesome that i get to do it but

02:14:52.140 you know soon soon currency will be gone you know and it'll be digital and it's going to be an

02:14:58.280 interesting time in humanity like big time like it's going to get it's going to get like i get

02:15:03.220 more nervous about that than ai i think ai is kind of a little bit of hoaxy because the shit don't

02:15:08.280 really work well yeah i agree the shit's capped the data centers are good for the robots i'm telling

02:15:12.660 they're making that shit for the robots oh the data centers just i think it's to store a lot of

02:15:16.580 information from all the surveillance information when you think about that too activating surveillance

02:15:21.300 and what they're going to need,

02:15:23.420 I think there's a lot of future stuff

02:15:25.760 that's going to be super scary,

02:15:27.260 and I don't know if we're ready for it,

02:15:28.400 but we don't have a choice but to go into it.

02:15:30.940 It doesn't look like,

02:15:31.560 because it doesn't look like anything is going to save us,

02:15:33.620 or you can move to a country that doesn't have it.

02:15:35.860 Or like you, bringing it to people

02:15:38.120 so they understand it,

02:15:39.020 so we can go into it the right way, right?

02:15:40.840 It really is about just information,

02:15:42.720 like teaching the people the things

02:15:45.680 where they can make a choice

02:15:46.780 to make this world better, right?

02:15:48.920 And that's what's awesome about podcasts now,

02:15:51.040 because you guys get to actually inform people about things that are happening

02:15:54.740 so that maybe it could change, like to have hope.

02:15:57.280 I want to have hope that even if they change the money,

02:16:00.080 even if they have surveillance, that somehow humans will find a way to thrive.

02:16:04.480 Yeah.

02:16:04.760 Right? 0.99

02:16:05.540 We need a new male gifts. 0.97

02:16:07.500 We need a new patriot, you know? 0.91

02:16:08.900 New patriot, yeah.

02:16:09.600 We need a new patriot.

02:16:10.580 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:16:12.680 Art Williams, you have your studio now.

02:16:14.440 People can find it online.

02:16:16.320 It's in Chicago.

02:16:16.860 Yeah, I got JuliusDeVinci.com.

02:16:19.320 I got—

02:16:20.340 JuliusDaVinci.com?

02:16:21.540 Yeah, and then I got ArthurJWilliamsJr.com, my name.

02:16:25.440 And then I got a gallery in Chicago on Clark and Diversity

02:16:27.960 and just started showing other artists, which is kind of cool.

02:16:31.760 Oh, that's cool stuff.

02:16:32.600 Yeah, I like to go see art.

02:16:34.500 Yeah, you got to come to the gallery, man.

02:16:36.320 You'll dig it, man.

02:16:37.080 Yeah, I would love to.

02:16:37.560 I got a printing press there.

02:16:38.960 Do you?

02:16:39.380 Oh, yeah.

02:16:40.220 Oh, yeah, I got a printing press there.

02:16:42.780 Oh, one thing I wanted to go into real quick.

02:16:44.860 Can you look up, Trevon, what are the top things that can be counterfeited?

02:16:48.720 Clothes, bags.

02:16:50.700 Okay.

02:16:53.280 Medications are a big thing.

02:16:54.660 The 10 most counterfeited products in the world.

02:16:56.560 Let's see them.

02:16:57.900 Food products.

02:16:58.780 Food.

02:16:59.380 Oh, that's 10.

02:17:00.320 I think that food products and well-known brands of food could be counterfeited,

02:17:03.160 but that is increasingly the case,

02:17:04.640 especially as food prices around the world continue to rise

02:17:07.220 and companies charge a premium for their brands,

02:17:11.860 whether it be coffee, chocolate, or fruit.

02:17:13.520 For example, in Canada,

02:17:14.880 of the most popular and profitable coffee store chain is named tim hortons after a hockey player

02:17:19.580 however in south korea people are sold tim morton's coffee which is a blatant knockoff of the popular

02:17:25.160 canadian caffeine product designer labels tags that's pretty obvious computers computers i wouldn't

02:17:31.180 have thought that but i guess it makes sense because you do hear people like on facebook

02:17:35.000 marketplace and stuff like i went to buy this computer and it was capped yeah uh pharmaceutical

02:17:39.080 Multicultural drugs.

02:17:40.480 Movies still. 0.90

02:17:41.440 Fake pills. 1.00

02:17:42.880 Oh, movies, yeah, like in third world countries. 1.00

02:17:46.120 Sneakers and shoes, that makes sense.

02:17:48.880 Smartphones.

02:17:49.700 Jewelry.

02:17:50.600 Jewelry and accessories.

02:17:52.300 Money's not even on there.

02:17:54.080 Watches for sure.

02:17:54.880 Handbags, purses, wallets.

02:17:57.060 No money.

02:17:57.800 No money.

02:17:58.440 Man, I got to get money on there.

02:18:01.000 Yeah.

02:18:01.920 Yeah, figure out the digital.

02:18:03.600 You'll figure it out, bro.

02:18:04.800 I'm done.

02:18:05.780 I'm retired, man.

02:18:06.760 Look, Art Williams, man

02:18:09.340 Thanks so much, dude, for hanging out

02:18:10.620 Thanks so much for just telling us about your story

02:18:12.320 Congrats on, I mean, in the end

02:18:14.760 You were kind of just an artist, man

02:18:16.220 Yeah, really

02:18:16.740 And not just an artist, but yeah

02:18:18.500 An artist that went through some shit

02:18:20.460 Well, yeah, if you're an artist and you're locked

02:18:22.360 And you're stuck in, like, criminal-type shit

02:18:24.220 Then, of course, you're going to start your art in criminal-type shit

02:18:27.060 And these days, dude

02:18:28.480 Everybody should be able to make their own fucking money

02:18:30.460 You know what I'm saying?

02:18:31.140 If the government's just printing that shit and just handing it out

02:18:33.660 We could give classes

02:18:35.120 Dude it might not be a bad idea

02:18:37.660 Crazy Theo Vaughn

02:18:39.180 Making money classes

02:18:40.380 TBD man

02:18:42.800 And you have a book I don't want to forget

02:18:44.820 The Last Counterfeiter

02:18:45.720 Art man thank you so much dude

02:18:48.180 It's been awesome brother

02:18:50.220 Tell Pennelly I said what's up

02:18:51.920 Yeah I will

02:19:05.120 When I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found.

02:19:09.480 I can feel it in my bones, but it's gonna tell you.

This Past Weekend with Theo Von - September 08, 2026

#681 - Ex-Counterfeiter Arthur Williams Jr.

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