Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - Sunday Uncensored: Andrew Klavan Member Podcast: Could God Exist Inside The Universe He Created?

00:00:00.000 Welcome to our special weekend show, Sunday Uncensored.

00:00:04.000 Every week we produce four uncensored episodes of the TimCast IRL podcast exclusively at TimCast.com, and we're going to bring you the most important for our weekend show.

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00:00:20.000 Now, enjoy the show.

00:00:23.000 We had a super chat where someone said that if God created the universe, he wouldn't, I believe he said he wouldn't exist within it or wouldn't have to.

00:00:31.000 And he said, computer programmers aren't constrained by their own computer code.

00:00:35.000 They exist outside of it.

00:00:36.000 I think that's a simple way for people to understand.

00:00:39.000 I think the question of God is substantially more profound than that, but I think it's a simple way for people who don't understand these questions to understand them and to carry this conversation forward.

00:00:53.000 This person said, computer programmers aren't constrained by their own code.

00:00:55.000 I believe that God could exist within the universe he created through an avatar of sorts.

00:01:00.000 Maybe like... Jesus.

00:01:01.000 Hey! 0.99

00:01:02.000 There you go.

00:01:02.000 But then Jesus isn't just an avatar, right?

00:01:04.000 He's like true God and true man.

00:01:06.000 Well, exactly.

00:01:06.000 I mean, if God created the universe, a way to be here and experience it as man is through the body of man.

00:01:14.000 It's still God.

00:01:15.000 Oh, like all human bodies.

00:01:16.000 So you think that's the way God's fingering reality is, by touching it with animals?

00:01:21.000 I think we all have a spark of the divine, but I think Jesus was superpower.

00:01:25.000 I think the thing is, it's impossible, and when I say impossible, I literally mean it, to imagine living outside of time.

00:01:34.000 And I think that's the important thing about God, is that he lives outside of time.

00:01:37.000 We live in time, he doesn't.

00:01:39.000 In Jesus, he finds out what time is like.

00:01:44.000 And people say, well he's all-knowing.

00:01:46.000 Yes, because he lives outside of time.

00:01:48.000 So even though it happens in time to him, everything is simultaneous.

00:01:51.000 We cannot imagine what that's like.

00:01:52.000 We can't imagine what it means.

00:01:54.000 We can see a facsimile, a two-dimensional representation.

00:01:59.000 When you're editing a video, you can see the file in your program from start to finish all at once, and you'll see little snippets, like little frames will be on the bar.

00:02:09.000 You ever edit a video?

00:02:10.000 There's the video bar, and you can see little clips of it, and you can see the audio waveform.

00:02:14.000 So it's sort of Granted, we don't have the mental capacity right now to experience it all literally at the same time.

00:02:21.000 But it's a facsimile.

00:02:23.000 But people will ask the question, they'll say, well, if God knows everything that's going to happen, how can you have free will?

00:02:29.000 Because he already knows what you're going to do.

00:02:30.000 But that's comparing outside of time to inside time.

00:02:33.000 You can't do it.

00:02:33.000 Well, also, yeah, there are just some questions we'll never be able to answer, so it's a mystery.

00:02:39.000 I've been thinking about time.

00:02:41.000 You know, Christ being all-God and all-man, or God being all-just and all-merciful, these are things that aren't perfectly possible for a human brain to reconcile.

00:02:49.000 Yeah, time too.

00:02:49.000 I think time is like, we're on our evolutionary path towards Just forgetting about time.

00:02:54.000 It's all movement.

00:02:55.000 It's the way we... We're saying the Earth goes around the Sun and we're calling it time, but it's just motion.

00:02:59.000 Everything's just moving.

00:03:00.000 It's spinning all at once.

00:03:01.000 I want to present this idea to you, Andrew, while we still have you here.

00:03:05.000 So, I was having an argument with a secular atheist who said, I am a wet robot.

00:03:09.000 Yeah.

00:03:09.000 And I said, you know, I grew up Catholic, became atheist, you know, got, you know, just hanging out punk rock, there's no God, all this stuff.

00:03:16.000 Then I had a few interesting philosophical conversations and then sort of, I would say, profound realizations.

00:03:22.000 And then I was like, okay, I definitely think there's a God.

00:03:25.000 I had like, I guess I'll describe it as I saw something when I was pondering and meditating.

00:03:30.000 And I don't consider myself theistic in the sense of scripture or anything like that, but I certainly believe there's something greater than us, there's a God.

00:03:38.000 So as I explained to this guy, and I mentioned on the show, If humans, if the universe is expansive and as massive as these people think it is, then I ask, like, would you assume that humans are the end, the most powerful form of intelligence that exists in the universe?

00:03:54.000 No, of course not.

00:03:55.000 Right.

00:03:55.000 Certainly something else exists more powerful and greater than us, right?

00:03:58.000 Okay, there we go.

00:03:59.000 That's the first step.

00:04:02.000 We know that four dimensions exist.

00:04:05.000 Mathematically, we've done it.

00:04:06.000 We're like, boom, there's more than three dimensions.

00:04:09.000 We can't perceive them.

00:04:10.000 We know there's something beyond us because it's like a Sudoku puzzle.

00:04:13.000 If we look at the universe and, based on science, believe that there will likely be a greater intelligence than ours, doesn't it stand to reason that it could scale up beyond human comprehension?

00:04:22.000 Yeah, I mean, the idea that you're always comparing, you know, the reason I made the point about the The step of faith to say that it is better to give a beggar bread than to kick a child is because once you have something that is better than something else, it means it's closer to something that is good. 0.95

00:04:40.000 And once you have an ultimate good, the question is done.

00:04:44.000 I don't believe that there's a proof of God because that would deprive you of your freedom.

00:04:51.000 But once you acknowledge that there are some things that are morally better than others, you're stuck with God.

00:04:56.000 I think there's actually, I would describe it like a Sudoku puzzle, in that we're trying to figure things out, we're trying to learn and understand the universe, and based on what we think we know now, I believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest it is very likely there is a God.

00:05:13.000 I think so too.

00:05:14.000 Even the fact of mathematics, you know, I talk about this in the book a little bit, You know, some scientists will say, the one I heard was, I'm a meat puppet with a chemistry set inside, you know?

00:05:26.000 And I always think, well, you know, show me a two.

00:05:30.000 You know, if everything is material, you know, what's a two?

00:05:34.000 And he said, take a look at my ex-girlfriend. 0.99

00:05:36.000 I'm just kidding.

00:05:39.000 That scientist would not say that, because he's a nice man.

00:05:42.000 We do have a lot of these conversations about physical things, but I'm curious, everyone's thoughts on what happens when you die.

00:05:49.000 Ah, well, I certainly believe that you are part of eternity, and what I believe is that we are cultivating that part of ourselves that actually is eternal.

00:06:00.000 And one of the interesting things about Christianity is that it insists that you get a new body.

00:06:06.000 And to me that's really meaningful because I don't know what I would be without a body.

00:06:11.000 You know, I don't think I'm a ghost in a machine.

00:06:14.000 I think my body is carrying the essence of who I am through memory and through by organizing

00:06:20.000 my experiences and all this and I think that will happen again.

00:06:23.000 I do believe there'll be a new heaven and a new earth.

00:06:26.000 I've been looking at lightning.

00:06:27.000 Yeah, I also, so what do you think heaven is or will be?

00:06:33.000 I mean, do you have a new body and a new place?

00:06:34.000 Is it a new life?

00:06:35.000 The only thing I can say is that when, I think it's probably beyond the imagination, but

00:06:39.000 the one thing I do believe is when people imagine it, they always imagine it as being

00:06:43.000 static.

00:06:44.000 You know, you'll hear Christians say, for eternity we'll be singing God's praises.

00:06:48.000 And you think, really?

00:06:49.000 For eternity?

00:06:51.000 About an hour or that.

00:06:52.000 I'll be ready for something else.

00:06:54.000 But I think that there'll still be the challenge of getting closer to God infinitely.

00:06:58.000 Oh, yeah.

00:06:59.000 Like spiraling towards the galactic core.

00:07:01.000 I want to say, yeah.

00:07:02.000 But infinitely.

00:07:03.000 I would say.

00:07:03.000 And then you bounce back out and you keep doing it over and over again.

00:07:05.000 No, I think it's infinite so you never get there actually.

00:07:09.000 We don't completely share a view here, but what I really appreciate you bringing up is the physical resurrection, because so many people conceive of the Christian afterlife as your soul just floating off of your body and never returning, but that isn't what we believe.

00:07:21.000 It's actually really important, because there is this C.S.

00:07:25.000 Lewis quote, which is very clever, but it's actually heretical.

00:07:28.000 Someone said, do you really believe you have a soul?

00:07:30.000 He said, no, you are a soul, you have a body.

00:07:34.000 Yeah, he didn't actually say that?

00:07:35.000 Oh, thank goodness.

00:07:36.000 All right, thank goodness.

00:07:37.000 Because it's not true, but you hear people say this all the time, and that's not a Christian view.

00:07:42.000 It's actually quite gnostic.

00:07:43.000 We as Christians believe that we are a body-soul composite, so the resurrection is a very important component of that.

00:07:48.000 Though, you know, I do believe at death, obviously, your soul is separated from your body.

00:07:52.000 I believe you are judged by God, and if you're in His grace and friendship, you go to Heaven, but if you're not quite perfect enough to be with him, because as scripture says, you can be united to nothing and perfect, you go through a process of purification that we as Catholics refer to as purgatory.

00:08:04.000 If you have made yourself his enemy and are an obstinate mortal sin, you go to hell for all of eternity.

00:08:09.000 That's what I believe.

00:08:10.000 I was telling you about DC's Legends of Tomorrow.

00:08:12.000 So get this, there's a show.

00:08:13.000 You ever hear of it?

00:08:14.000 Legends of Tomorrow?

00:08:15.000 I've heard of it, yeah.

00:08:16.000 It's like the CW show.

00:08:18.000 So it's a show about insignificant people Who travel through time to fix history.

00:08:23.000 And the idea is they were taken from the timeline because they didn't have big enough impact to screw up history.

00:08:29.000 And it's on like seven seasons.

00:08:31.000 But the fascinating thing is that one of the underlying plot points of the show is that Jesus is the son of God.

00:08:37.000 It's a fact and everyone knows as they travel through time.

00:08:40.000 So the second season was trying to reconstruct the Spear of Destiny that was granted its powers by the blood of Christ because it gives you godly powers over the timeline to rewrite it.

00:08:51.000 That's cool.

00:08:52.000 So I just think, I bring that up because There's also another scene where they're talking to a bunch of Vikings and they tell them that Jesus is the one true God or something like that.

00:09:03.000 But I bring this up now again, Seamus, because I'm on season five, I think,

00:09:09.000 and they said the fates, the Greek gods, have taken over reality with the loom of fate.

00:09:17.000 Everything is authoritarian.

00:09:19.000 And they explain how much better life is because these people who are being controlled

00:09:24.000 won't become evil.

00:09:25.000 Do you see an evil person like a Joseph Stalin around you?

00:09:28.000 They actually said that.

00:09:30.000 I just find it fascinating.

00:09:31.000 This show has an underlying premise that Christianity is true and unfalsifiable. 1.00

00:09:37.000 And Stalin is the bad guy.

00:09:38.000 Very rare.

00:09:39.000 They didn't say Hitler.

00:09:40.000 They didn't say Stalin is the bad guy.

00:09:42.000 I just want to mention, for my statement about what I believe on the afterlife, I may have spoken confusingly.

00:09:49.000 I want to remove the term obstinate.

00:09:51.000 We just believe it's a matter of mortal sin, because I'm sort of conflating terms here as I'm speaking quickly.

00:09:58.000 I read a book a long time ago about near-death experiences.

00:10:00.000 Yeah.

00:10:01.000 You mentioned that on the show, I believe.

00:10:02.000 Yeah.

00:10:03.000 And the fascinating thing was it was a researcher who was a skeptic, not overly religious, but interested in the phenomenon, interviewed hundreds of people and said that like the overwhelming majority were the exact same story.

00:10:16.000 Hey, it's Kimberly Fletcher here from Moms 4 America with some very exciting news.

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00:11:27.000 See you on the tour. 0.99

00:11:42.000 Holy shit, is that lightning? 0.98

00:11:44.000 Dude, this is interesting. 0.99

00:11:45.000 I've been looking at lightning lately.

00:11:47.000 Lightning goes from the Earth's core above, away from Earth, above the clouds.

00:11:51.000 Let me, I'll go back.

00:11:52.000 Actually, you just say what you're gonna say.

00:11:53.000 I'll say this later.

00:11:54.000 I am, just to sort of stay on the topic, I am actually, you might not suspect it, I'm very skeptical of the NDE stories.

00:12:01.000 But also, it's interesting, many people do tell the same story.

00:12:04.000 I think about 30% of people describe the experience very negatively.

00:12:08.000 We hear the NDE stories, right?

00:12:09.000 Because no one's going to sell... It's really hot!

00:12:11.000 Well, yeah, you'll sell a book.

00:12:14.000 You'll sell a book called Heaven is for Real.

00:12:16.000 No one's selling Hell is for Real.

00:12:18.000 And also, to be fair, they could be underrepresented because if you did go to hell when you have this NDE, if it is a legitimate experience of the afterlife, you're not going to wake up and be like, Yeah, I went to hell, you guys, I'm gonna be honest.

00:12:31.000 You're gonna be like, oh, it was great!

00:12:32.000 I went towards the light and it was beautiful!

00:12:35.000 I have a question, I have a question.

00:12:38.000 If you have a near-death experience and did very, just even quickly, perceive yourself going to hell, if you came out of that and then said, I repent, out of true fear and faith, actually, out of true fear, and then started going to church and praising the Lord, Would you actually go to heaven at that point?

00:12:58.000 Yeah, you can repent.

00:12:59.000 We believe in redemption.

00:12:59.000 But it's not faith at that point.

00:13:00.000 If you're at peace, the burning is going to feel good.

00:13:03.000 It's still faith.

00:13:04.000 Well, because you have to make a decision in deciding whether you're going to believe that was just a neurochemical reaction occurring in your brain because you were deprived of oxygen or if you really stepped into the afterlife for a moment.

00:13:13.000 People still believe in communism.

00:13:14.000 You can see anything and still believe.

00:13:16.000 What do you guys think hell is, right?

00:13:18.000 Because it's clearly not, you know, a red guy with horns poking while there's fire.

00:13:25.000 And I'll let you answer after, obviously, because I stole the mic from you, but I believe hell is ultimately an eternal state of separation from God, but I do believe it also involves physical torment, especially because I believe in a physical resurrection of the body.

00:13:38.000 And so I do believe people are in hell, they're burning, they're tortured by...

00:13:44.000 They're tortured by Satan and his minions.

00:13:45.000 have a nice day.

00:13:46.000 I didn't believe that.

00:13:47.000 I didn't know it was real.

00:13:48.000 I believe people are there.

00:13:49.000 If you can accept the fire.

00:13:50.000 What is it really fire?

00:13:51.000 I mean, because that seems more like...

00:13:52.000 It's electrical.

00:13:53.000 No, well, I mean, Dante's Inferno is...

00:13:54.000 There's discussion about this.

00:13:55.000 What do you think about Dante's Inferno?

00:13:56.000 It's interesting.

00:14:01.000 I mean, it's not canonical, but it's an interesting... Yeah, I don't think it's meant to be.

00:14:06.000 It's meant to be poetry.

00:14:06.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:14:07.000 Does the Bible actually say fire?

00:14:10.000 Yeah, well, the language of fire is used, but there's a lot of debate over this.

00:14:14.000 Yeah, because, like, the sun looks like it's on fire, but that's plasma.

00:14:17.000 Super hot gas.

00:14:19.000 In The Simpsons, Homer was just forced to eat donuts and he enjoyed it.

00:14:21.000 What if when people die, they're like, what?

00:14:27.000 If people die, their souls are in the earth, and then when lightning shoots out, they're releasing souls.

00:14:32.000 I was looking above the clouds when lightning strikes.

00:14:34.000 You see these blue jets shoot off into the galaxy, off into space.

00:14:38.000 It looks like a neural pathway activating.

00:14:40.000 This is one of the interesting things about theology that people get wrong, too.

00:14:44.000 Really, one way to read the Bible is that you don't die and go somewhere.

00:14:50.000 You die and then there is a day on which people are resurrected, brought back and judged.

00:14:57.000 N.T.

00:14:57.000 Wright writes about this a lot, you know, that it's not like you actually, the minute you die, you actually go some other place.

00:15:03.000 There is death and you are dead for, you know.

00:15:06.000 Oh, so you don't believe... Yes, this is a different... I don't agree, but it's interesting.

00:15:11.000 I don't know.

00:15:12.000 There is a view that... There is one view that the person is effectively sleeping until the final judgment.

00:15:22.000 We as Catholics believe that there's a particular judgment and a final judgment, so you are separated from your body, your soul is in one part of heaven or hell ultimately, but at the end we're resurrected and there's a public judgment.

00:15:34.000 That's the lightning strike, baby!

00:15:36.000 Purgatories in the Earth's core!

00:15:38.000 So I've actually, I have heard that before, and you know, I remember talking to some people about it, and they said, you know, they believe the reason why we preserve bodies, ceremonial burial that we do, is to keep your body ready for resurrection.

00:15:51.000 Well that, I think that's, I'm sure God can work this out.

00:15:54.000 Yeah, I think, I think, I don't know.

00:15:56.000 Not that they're saying that They need to embalm you so that God can resurrect you, but that they preserve you in hopes.

00:16:03.000 Yeah, when you're resurrected, you're resurrected.

00:16:05.000 I think it's very much symbolic.

00:16:08.000 People are saying we believe that this body will return.

00:16:11.000 This person is going to use it some day.

00:16:13.000 God will reanimate them. 0.84

00:16:14.000 So we're gonna treat the body reverently. 0.86

00:16:16.000 As opposed to just incinerating them.

00:16:19.000 Will you be 24?

00:16:20.000 I think I've actually heard some theologians say 33.

00:16:22.000 Interesting enough, because that's when you're like perfectly at your prime.

00:16:25.000 Isn't that what you rolled?

00:16:26.000 That's how old Jesus was when he died.

00:16:27.000 That's what you rolled on the show.

00:16:28.000 That's right.

00:16:28.000 There you go.

00:16:29.000 There you go.

00:16:29.000 It all makes sense now.

00:16:30.000 Thank you for coming back.

00:16:31.000 The entire thing makes sense.

00:16:32.000 With this, I think I'm going to have to go.

00:16:33.000 I've got to do my show in the morning and I've got to drive home.

00:16:35.000 This was fantastic.

00:16:36.000 I wish we could have gotten into it more.

00:16:38.000 And it was really great meeting you guys.

00:16:40.000 We'll keep talking.

00:16:41.000 I'm only an hour and a half away now.

00:16:43.000 Right on.

00:16:43.000 Appreciate it.

00:16:45.000 Do you know how to find your way out?

00:16:46.000 I do, yes.

00:16:47.000 All right.

00:16:47.000 Thanks so much for coming.

00:16:48.000 It's been great.

00:16:48.000 Thanks a lot.

00:16:49.000 We're gonna talk about lightning strikes now.

00:16:51.000 Also, I wanted to wait until he left to mention the parts we disagreed on so that he couldn't defend himself.

00:17:00.000 No, it was really great.

00:17:01.000 Ian, what do you think happens when you die?

00:17:02.000 I think the soul, I'm wondering now that if the soul is stored in the earth and then maybe the body is kept in intact because the patterns, like if you ever look at astrology, like wherever the sun and the stars are when your body's being created have this imprint on you.

00:17:15.000 So maybe there's something to it.

00:17:16.000 So it utilizes that imprint to release the energy through it and out into space.

00:17:22.000 And that's like going to heaven.

00:17:24.000 And maybe when you're, if you're more in touch with and you're, you're, you're more like calm and confident with what you are that you're, you just immediately go to heaven.

00:17:32.000 Interesting.

00:17:32.000 All right.

00:17:33.000 So here's why Andrew Clavin was wrong.

00:17:35.000 I love you, Andrew.

00:17:36.000 That's interesting.

00:17:38.000 So if I understand properly, because there's sort of a couple things that you are starting from or taking for granted with your narrative.

00:17:45.000 You're saying souls are stored in the earth.

00:17:47.000 You mean people are buried after they die and that's where their soul is?

00:17:49.000 Like the electromagnetic frequency around your body.

00:17:52.000 There's the human dynamo or the human, what do you call it?

00:17:55.000 Or a soul?

00:17:56.000 Human dynamo.

00:17:56.000 Have you ever looked?

00:17:57.000 We should probably pull a visual of this up so they know.

00:17:59.000 Human dynamo.

00:18:00.000 Yeah, Taurus.

00:18:01.000 Human dynamo.

00:18:02.000 Taurus.

00:18:02.000 So this is all astrology?

00:18:03.000 Is this part of astrology or is this your personal theory?

00:18:05.000 Because I don't know anything about astrology.

00:18:06.000 It's an idea scientifically that your heart produces a magnetic field.

00:18:09.000 Okay, the human dynamo is a superhero.

00:18:10.000 No, no, type the human dynamo Taurus.

00:18:12.000 Taurus.

00:18:12.000 That's cool that that's a superhero though.

00:18:14.000 T-O-R-U-S. 1.00

00:18:17.000 A Taurus is a shape.

00:18:19.000 And this, apparently, your heart is producing electromagnetic field.

00:18:22.000 So I think that's your soul.

00:18:23.000 But it's the interface with this field and the Earth's magnetic field that's producing what we know as a soul.

00:18:28.000 But have you considered that the soul could be something completely immaterial that we could never detect or capture with any instruments and that doesn't look like anything?

00:18:36.000 That was hard for me as a kid to ever, to think it was completely immaterial.

00:18:40.000 I could never wrap my mind around.

00:18:41.000 I don't understand.

00:18:43.000 Yeah.

00:18:44.000 But I think a lot of this would be things that you... Yeah, yeah, that's it. 0.98

00:18:47.000 So that's a lady because you can see the boobs. 1.00

00:18:53.000 So my question is...

00:18:57.000 You believe in a soul which is sort of more material, takes up physical space, and it's because you can't quite wrap your head around the idea of a soul which is totally material.

00:19:06.000 My question is, do you think it could still be possible even though you can't wrap your head around it, even if it's difficult for you?

00:19:12.000 It could be a subatomic vibration that we can't calculate.

00:19:15.000 But even that is a material thing.

00:19:17.000 What if it is completely immaterial?

00:19:19.000 We just can't understand what it is.

00:19:20.000 Outside of reality?

00:19:23.000 As far as we understand like it's it's totally spiritual so we can't it's not a vibration.

00:19:29.000 It's not energy It's just it's simply not material.

00:19:32.000 I don't know.

00:19:33.000 It's spiritual I'm not sure exactly how to describe the spiritual the problem when you say immaterial it makes me think of oh Non-racist.

00:19:39.000 I think you're not a real thing.

00:19:41.000 You're not a racist.

00:19:42.000 Well, let me think about this.

00:19:43.000 You're both wrong.

00:19:44.000 Nuh-uh.

00:19:45.000 And right at the same time.

00:19:46.000 You have to die with at least a million dollars in order to go to the burial with you.

00:19:50.000 That's right.

00:19:52.000 So the Pharaoh's got it right, man. 1.00

00:19:53.000 You gotta have a pyramid.

00:19:55.000 Well, you gotta pay your fee to cross the river.

00:19:57.000 Wouldn't it be sad?

00:19:59.000 But imagine how sad it would be if that was true.

00:20:02.000 Like, the pharaohs were right, and your body rotting away actually affected you in the afterlife, and so you only had, like, max, you know, for them, I guess.

00:20:11.000 But for them, they have, like, a couple thousand years of having paper-thin skin that doesn't really look right, and it's super gross, but that's... No, no, no.

00:20:18.000 You need to pay the toll, the fee, to cross the river Styx.

00:20:22.000 That's why you needed money.

00:20:23.000 Oh, okay.

00:20:24.000 That's why they put the two coins on your eyes.

00:20:26.000 We were talking about super-acceleration of the soul through the Earth's core into the galaxy if the gold stored with the dead people was also super-accelerating the energy field.

00:20:35.000 It'd be funny if when you die you go to, like, everything's woke in heaven.

00:20:40.000 It's just like the absolute epitome of wokeness.

00:20:42.000 That's the other place, bro.

00:20:45.000 Heaven and hell are the same thing, but it's the way you interact with it.

00:20:48.000 So it's like the burning heat of the sun.

00:20:50.000 If you're calm, it just feels like God's divine love, and it's burning away the impurity.

00:20:54.000 But if you're struggling, it hurts.

00:20:56.000 That's very fascinating, because I wouldn't say that I believe that, but there's an idea, if I'm not mistaken, in Orthodox Christianity, which is essentially that heaven and hell are the same place, and it's the state of your soul that causes you to react to God, either with love or with intense pain.

00:21:10.000 Again, not necessarily my belief, not my theory, not what I feel, but it's interesting you should say that because there is some precedent in some schools of Christian thought for that.

00:21:17.000 That's interesting.

00:21:18.000 But what I want to ask you about the soul here, your view of it, and maybe what I'm getting at, because by definition it's impossible to really explain the immaterial or the spiritual or what a soul is.

00:21:32.000 What is an idea made of?

00:21:35.000 Hey guys, Josh Hammer here, the host of America on Trial with Josh Hammer, a podcast for the First Podcast Network.

00:21:41.000 Look, there are a lot of shows out there that are explaining the political news cycle, what's happening on the Hill, the this, the that.

00:21:48.000 There are no other shows that are cutting straight to the point when it comes to the

00:21:51.000 unprecedented lawfare debilitating and affecting the 2024 presidential election.

00:21:57.000 We do all that every single day right here on America on Trial with Josh Hammer.

00:22:01.000 Subscribe and download your episodes wherever you get your podcasts.

00:22:04.000 America on Trial with Josh Hammer.

00:22:08.000 But that's sort of what produces an idea.

00:22:11.000 As far as we understand it, that correlates with you having ideas.

00:22:14.000 But what is an idea made of?

00:22:15.000 When you have an idea in your head, what is the experience of that idea made of? 0.99

00:22:19.000 I wonder if it's dark matter, but I think dark matter might be bullshit. 0.99

00:22:22.000 You have no word! 0.99

00:22:23.000 If it's spinning and causing force, maybe?

00:22:26.000 Ideas of force?

00:22:28.000 But what is a force?

00:22:29.000 You get what I'm saying?

00:22:31.000 At some point, you just cannot describe it.

00:22:33.000 And I think Well, I'll let you actually keep speculating, because I'm curious what you have to say about what you would say an idea is made of. 0.99

00:22:40.000 Yeah, well this one guy, this neighbor of mine at one point was beating his girlfriend, and I was like, who the fuck? 0.80

00:22:45.000 I called the cops on him one day, I didn't know who they were, and one day I saw them walk by, and I didn't know who it was, I just felt this dark force, this black hole force, and I knew it was the guy. 0.83

00:22:56.000 And then the question is, what is that feeling made of?

00:22:59.000 Is that feeling just your neural chemistry?

00:23:01.000 Or is there some immaterial component to it that we can't describe as an energy or as matter or as a vibration?

00:23:07.000 Yeah, I think it's more like that.

00:23:08.000 Like the CIA will say, don't look at the person you're following because they might turn around, they know they're being watched kind of thing.

00:23:13.000 Like, what is that force that's making them know or sensing that they're being watched?

00:23:18.000 They really say that?

00:23:19.000 I think so.

00:23:19.000 I've heard this.

00:23:22.000 My point, well, if Chris told you, I would disregard it entirely.

00:23:26.000 This is not the first time I've heard it, though.

00:23:28.000 I've heard it before, too.

00:23:29.000 My point is that with the spiritual, it's so difficult to explain, but ultimately that's what I believe.

00:23:36.000 I mean, I believe that its base component, like an idea is spiritual or experience itself is spiritual.

00:23:44.000 But there's no real way for us to fully describe or understand it.

00:23:50.000 It's very difficult.

00:23:51.000 Like, how do you describe consciousness, right?

00:23:53.000 Consciousness.

00:23:56.000 Well, I usually start with, it's a vibration, which is a very generic way to describe it.

00:23:59.000 Exactly, but the question is, why is it a vibration?

00:24:01.000 Because every time I ask myself the question, what is an idea made of?

00:24:06.000 I can't I can't really justify any of the descriptions that I would give it based on the material world, right?

00:24:12.000 So if I were to say it was like a vibration or or energy or something that might sound right in some instance, but why am I describing that?

00:24:21.000 Why does that?

00:24:23.000 Why would it be that?

00:24:24.000 How can I justify that?

00:24:26.000 I find that you can't.

00:24:27.000 Ultimately, it's just something spiritual and immaterial that we can't describe.

00:24:30.000 It needs to interface.

00:24:31.000 For an idea to come to fruition, you need the vibration and the body's reference, like the memory, so that you can be like, that feeling makes me think of that thing, and now I have a new, what I call, an idea.

00:24:42.000 My question is, why are you calling it a vibration?

00:24:44.000 Well, I look at the cosmic microwave background radiation that's like vibrating.

00:24:48.000 And then when you study like, um, Nassim Harriman's Schwarzschild proton, and you look at like, oh geez, the, the, the, I guess that comes from like the Planck constant and string theory.

00:25:00.000 I, it's not the right word.

00:25:01.000 Vibration is not the right word.

00:25:03.000 So then you get what I'm saying.

00:25:04.000 You get what I'm saying.

00:25:05.000 Like you just, you can't describe it at some level.

00:25:07.000 I got to point something out too.

00:25:08.000 Like Ian, The ideas you have about forces, plank, whatever, all of that stuff, you've never tested any of that.

00:25:16.000 You've never done the experiments.

00:25:17.000 You don't know if any of that's true.

00:25:18.000 You just believe it.

00:25:18.000 Right.

00:25:19.000 Yeah.

00:25:20.000 It just comes down to, can I make sense out of things?

00:25:22.000 The whole, like, there's a guy in the sky you'll never see and you can't understand.

00:25:25.000 I'm not, I'm not satisfied.

00:25:27.000 But no one believes that.

00:25:27.000 The God thing?

00:25:28.000 Like, that's, the God's a man? 1.00

00:25:29.000 That's like, that's fucking crazy. 0.99

00:25:30.000 The guy in the sky? 1.00

00:25:31.000 That's a caricature of, of Christianity. 0.52

00:25:33.000 Yeah, they call it HE in the Bible.

00:25:34.000 It's a capital H. I'm like, come on, that's, that's nonsense to me.

00:25:37.000 Like, it can't be a guy in the sky.

00:25:39.000 It's not!

00:25:40.000 That's more nonsense than vibrational string theory. 0.90

00:25:41.000 That's a caricature of Christianity. 0.89

00:25:43.000 So, if everything... So, Seamus, do you believe that God is a guy in the sky?

00:25:47.000 I believe that God is a man.

00:25:48.000 I believe that... Well, I believe that God... So, God describes himself with masculine pronouns, but of course, he transcends... Yeah, yeah, it's not... No, I would not conceive of God the way that Ian is describing.

00:26:02.000 I think people make the mistake of characterizing God as just the biggest, most powerful thing in the universe.

00:26:11.000 And sort of the largest, toughest bully around, rather than the creator of the universe.

00:26:18.000 The creator of the universe who exists.

00:26:21.000 Yeah.

00:26:23.000 Or existence itself.

00:26:24.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:26:25.000 Why could God not be the creation of the universe?

00:26:27.000 What do you mean?

00:26:28.000 So what do you mean by that?

00:26:30.000 Well, because God is uncreated, right?

00:26:31.000 I don't know.

00:26:33.000 So he didn't create himself.

00:26:34.000 Well, that's what I believe.

00:26:36.000 Okay.

00:26:37.000 That makes sense.

00:26:38.000 I do believe it's infinite.

00:26:39.000 I believe people can go too far in either direction.

00:26:42.000 So you end up with people who are deists who say that, you know, God created the universe or some higher power created the universe and just stepped away and the universe sort of runs like a clock he wound up and let go of and he's not really paying attention to it.

00:26:54.000 Then on the other hand, you have pantheists who say the universe is God and everything you're looking at is God all the time.

00:27:00.000 My view is that God created the universe And he is constantly sustaining it in existence.

00:27:09.000 So the universe is something different, but everything in the universe is being held in existence by God.

00:27:17.000 So we learn about God through our observation of the universe, but the universe is not him.

00:27:25.000 I do believe, I think that, at least I tend towards belief that the universe is God, that God is, it's the essence of energy interfacing with matter, or vibration interfacing with matter.

00:27:36.000 I'm sorry if I just keep going in circles.

00:27:37.000 No, no, I'm interested in hearing what you... What if we live in a computer simulation programmed by a 20-year-old college student?

00:27:43.000 I'll probably crap myself if that's real.

00:27:45.000 The college student doesn't live in the simulation he made. 0.98

00:27:48.000 He controls it.

00:27:49.000 He has a reason for doing it.

00:27:51.000 He has expectations.

00:27:53.000 There are things he wants out of it.

00:27:54.000 But where is he?

00:27:55.000 He's sitting in front of a computer screen.

00:27:57.000 Is that God, though, in the metaphor?

00:27:58.000 If we were in a simulation, if someone programs a universe into their computer and they're sitting outside of it, they are the God of that universe, of that universe, not of ours.

00:28:12.000 So God could, in my opinion, is outside of the thing he created.

00:28:17.000 And I think, you know, referencing Jesus and visiting Earth as a man and all that stuff.

00:28:22.000 That's how you would do it?

00:28:23.000 You'd plug yourself in and send yourself into the universe you created and you are still you, the creator, and everything in the universe that you programmed?

00:28:32.000 Obviously, you know, analogies break down and it's very difficult to describe, but what we believe as Catholics is that God, we describe it as, the Incarnation is God entering history.

00:28:43.000 That's sometimes the way that it's described.

00:28:45.000 What's that?

00:28:46.000 So the Incarnation would be Christ's Incarnation.

00:28:51.000 So God taking human form.

00:28:53.000 That's why I take some issues I have with it.

00:28:55.000 It's just so recent.

00:28:56.000 What about the last 100 billion years?

00:28:58.000 We didn't have a written history, so we didn't write about all the dudes that God came through.

00:29:05.000 You're assuming there are others.

00:29:07.000 First, why assume human motivations to God?

00:29:10.000 And second, if you were to make an assumption and you were to assume there are human motivations, it's very, very simple.

00:29:16.000 If a guy programmed a universe and he watched it run for thousands of years, and then he said, I'm gonna go inside and see what's up.

00:29:23.000 It's really easy to prescribe a human motivation to God.

00:29:26.000 I think the reality is you can't.

00:29:29.000 Yeah, it doesn't feel like a human motivation.

00:29:30.000 It's almost like when you shine a blue light and you see orange, like the counter light.

00:29:36.000 It's not the energy you're putting out, but it's what you see.

00:29:39.000 That's what God feels like.

00:29:40.000 Well, what we believe is the reason he entered the universe in that way, the reason the incarnation occurred, is the same reason he created the universe, which was as an act of love.

00:29:49.000 So I'm into this black hole theory, where we're inside of a black hole, and that there's universes, black holes within a universe, which is also a black hole within another universe that's a black hole from an outside, and that God is the people out there talking to us.

00:30:02.000 And that it's so many of them, but then I asked Ben about this and he's like, no, no, it's much more complicated.

00:30:05.000 There's Ben.

00:30:06.000 Ben Townsend.

00:30:07.000 And he said it's infinite black holes.

00:30:09.000 So it's, it's the, the garden of... What if those black holes are just, you know, hard drives? 0.99

00:30:15.000 That's fucking wicked, dude. 0.93

00:30:17.000 I mean, but where would- We're in Roblox. 0.99

00:30:19.000 Where would the guy be that built it?

00:30:20.000 That's the question.

00:30:21.000 We're actually just mining Bitcoin right now.

00:30:23.000 That theory would lead me up to that there's a guy at the very top that's like the grand coder, but where is he?

00:30:29.000 Is he in a room that he built?

00:30:30.000 What did he build it with?

00:30:31.000 You can't know.

00:30:32.000 So, but I assume you're analogizing right now, right?

00:30:34.000 You don't necessarily believe it's actually a computer?

00:30:36.000 Okay.

00:30:36.000 No, no, yeah.

00:30:37.000 With what Tim's saying about what if it's a guy simulating reality for us.

00:30:41.000 I'm not saying it's not.

00:30:42.000 I'm very agnostic.

00:30:44.000 I'm trying to put things in a simplistic human perspective.

00:30:47.000 Like when people are like, we must be in a simulation where someone created it for some reason, an advanced race, and it's like, okay, we'll extrapolate from there.

00:30:54.000 You know what I mean?

00:30:55.000 So if you're, like I said, either recognize you can't attach human motivations to God, you can only perceive it through the lens of how a human may interpret what God Yeah.

00:31:05.000 Azor wants.

00:31:06.000 Or just go ahead and make up whatever human motivation you want.

00:31:08.000 I've been talking to God lately.

00:31:10.000 Like, I ask my subconscious a question and it responds.

00:31:12.000 And I'm like, how much of that is God and how much of that is my own filter telling myself what I want to hear?

00:31:17.000 And you have to be very careful about that, right?

00:31:19.000 Because if you're listening to yourself and telling yourself that you're hearing God, you end up worshiping yourself.

00:31:24.000 That's very dangerous.

00:31:25.000 In Bruce Almighty, I think it was, I think it was Bruce Almighty, he asks God if he talks to people and he says, well, people who claim to talk to me are mostly talking to themselves.

00:31:35.000 What do you guys think about the subconscious and God?

00:31:37.000 Do you think they're the same thing?

00:31:39.000 I don't believe they're the same thing.

00:31:41.000 No, I don't believe they're the same thing.

00:31:43.000 But I think it can definitely be the case that a person is having a conversation with themselves and then they attempt to personify it as God, or they believe that they're talking to God when they're talking to themselves.

00:31:54.000 I definitely think that happens.

00:31:56.000 How are you talking to God?

00:31:58.000 I'll think a question.

00:32:00.000 And then the subconscious will answer it.

00:32:02.000 What does that mean?

00:32:03.000 I'll be like, what should I do?

00:32:05.000 I'll think it.

00:32:05.000 What should I do?

00:32:06.000 It'll show me an image of me eating kimchi.

00:32:09.000 But isn't this just you thinking in your own mind?

00:32:12.000 Maybe, but it's my subconscious.

00:32:14.000 I'm not choosing the response.

00:32:14.000 It just responds.

00:32:15.000 You know, your subconscious will just say stuff sometimes.

00:32:18.000 No.

00:32:19.000 Sometimes you just get thoughts.

00:32:21.000 Oh, I mean, I have ideas, but it's me.

00:32:23.000 Oh yeah, I think I have an inner monologue and I think in words and pictures and stuff.

00:32:28.000 Do you sort of mean like the first idea that pops into your head after you think this question?

00:32:31.000 Yeah, sometimes it's not an idea, it's like a feeling sometimes.

00:32:33.000 It'll be an image sometimes.

00:32:36.000 Sometimes I expect words to be like, do this, but it'll just be like the image of me doing something.

00:32:40.000 Maybe that is God.

00:32:41.000 Maybe people just assume they're giving themselves these things when they're asking for them.

00:32:46.000 Maybe that's what people can't perceive of prayer.

00:32:48.000 I think it's definitely possible that in many instances people are hearing from something other than themselves and saying it's themselves.

00:32:55.000 I think there can be demonic influence.

00:32:57.000 I also obviously, you know, I believe in prayer.

00:33:00.000 Yeah.

00:33:00.000 I caution people to... Yeah, demonic influence because I've had different voice... I've had like different...

00:33:05.000 People respond or whatever it is a different force and it's not the same one It's like a different one almost every time but it's like a group of them and sometimes it'll be like 60% good 40% evil or it'll be like 11% evil, you know or 20 and it'll be this weird like and sometimes you'll feel that it's evil like you'll you'll feel the aggression in the response and Yeah, I mean, I would just caution you to stay away from that, then.

00:33:26.000 Be careful, man.

00:33:27.000 I can't, man.

00:33:27.000 At this stage in my life, I've got to go.

00:33:29.000 No, you can't.

00:33:30.000 You can't get away.

00:33:31.000 I promise you can break away.

00:33:32.000 It's because what it is, Ian, is it's an abusive relationship.

00:33:35.000 What if, like, tomorrow, like, we're getting ready for the show, and then when Ian walks in, his eyes are completely yellow, and his skin is gray, and he floats in, and we're like, Ian, did you give in?

00:33:44.000 Yes.

00:33:45.000 I love God.

00:33:46.000 Ian is gone!

00:33:47.000 I am all that remains.

00:33:49.000 Honestly, I believe people are so disconnected from religion.

00:33:51.000 It would be so much more creepy to be like, we are what remains.

00:33:54.000 Seeing how people are so disconnected from religion, if we truly can establish a connection to God, like if we can really do it, and then help people to learn how to do it... See, why don't we film that?

00:34:03.000 That for the vlog?

00:34:05.000 Wow, I guess, you know, Ian... We are what remains.

00:34:09.000 And we'll have you do the voice and he'll just mouth it.

00:34:11.000 We are Ian.

00:34:13.000 Like, uh, Ian's trying to ascend again, and then someone walks up and hits him with a stick and he falls down.

00:34:17.000 You know what else I found?

00:34:18.000 Oh, sorry guys.

00:34:19.000 I was thinking words instead of saying them for a while, 2006, 7, 8, like I was experimenting with just thought communication, low frequency communication, and it was, seemed like it was hijacking God.

00:34:28.000 Like, it was deciding what God was gonna, like, I was becoming... Ah, but so then it is yourself.

00:34:33.000 Because a person can't hijack God, right?

00:34:35.000 I would tell my subconscious things and then it would start to believe them. 1.00

00:34:38.000 Like when people walk around and they're like, this fucking sucks! 0.98

00:34:41.000 You're telling God that and then God starts to believe it and then will create that reality for you or for other people. 0.99

00:34:48.000 I don't believe that's the case.

00:34:51.000 I think that you're convincing yourself, you're changing yourself, right?

00:34:55.000 Because if you can change it, then it isn't God.

00:34:57.000 Yeah, now you're talking about absolute truth, that there's an absolute power that cannot be corrupted.

00:35:01.000 That is possible.

00:35:03.000 Just because I can't comprehend it doesn't mean it's not real.

00:35:07.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:35:08.000 It's an interesting discussion.

00:35:10.000 Perhaps we should set up that longer conversation between you guys, but I think, you know... Fantastic.

00:35:15.000 Unless there's anything else you wanted to add to it, we'll wind it down.

00:35:17.000 Andrew had to leave, so, but, you know... Yeah, it was... That was... That was really a great discussion.

00:35:24.000 I very much enjoyed our discussion, and I really enjoyed our discussion with Andrew.

00:35:28.000 I thought this was a great... I'll point out... Just to point out one last thing before we go, I want to make sure we say this.

00:35:32.000 You can actually send some people looking at you.

00:35:34.000 We have this... You want to pull this article up?

00:35:35.000 That's right, yep.

00:35:36.000 Why can we sense when people are looking at us?

00:35:38.000 How strange.

00:35:39.000 It's freaking wild.

00:35:40.000 How strange.

00:35:41.000 It was strange that you didn't start reading the article right after you said the title.

00:35:45.000 What do you mean?

00:35:46.000 Normally you read the title and then immediately start reading the article.

00:35:48.000 Oh, I just wanted to highlight that.

00:35:49.000 Because someone was looking at him.

00:35:49.000 Yeah, I could feel it.

00:35:50.000 But this is actually on an article a couple years ago.

00:35:51.000 A million people are watching you at once.

00:35:52.000 The internet video is so fascinating because people are watching you all the time now.

00:35:56.000 Like, right now there's probably 20,000 people watching you on the Earth, empowering you or doing something.

00:36:02.000 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:36:03.000 Based on all of the channels and the podcasts and everything, it's more than that.

00:36:07.000 It's like we've hacked God.

00:36:09.000 It's 50,000 right now just on YouTube alone from just TimCast IRL.

00:36:13.000 So it's probably like 200,000 people are currently watching some form of me talking.

00:36:17.000 That's amazing.

00:36:18.000 Yes, and so are you, good members over at 10k.com!

00:36:20.000 Right, we love you!

00:36:22.000 Thanks for hanging out!

00:36:23.000 We, uh, tomorrow, we're gonna be heading to Nashville, right after the show.

00:36:26.000 So we'll be doing the show like normal, and then immediately once we're done, we're hopping in the vehicles, we're driving out, we're spending a week with the Daily Wire crew, it's gonna be a blast!

Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - April 10, 2022

Sunday Uncensored: Andrew Klavan Member Podcast: Could God Exist Inside The Universe He Created?

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