Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - Timcast IRL - Elon Musk Accused Of Violating NDA, CEO Says They CANT Audit Bots w-Matt Binder

00:00:00.000 you you

00:00:40.000 so it's one of those days where Elon Musk posts a poop emoji at the CEO of

00:00:57.000 And you know, things are going good.

00:01:00.000 But hey, good for him for making things a bit more interesting, I suppose.

00:01:03.000 But the story is, the CEO of Twitter basically said, we can't do an external audit of Twitter's spam bots because you need internal data.

00:01:10.000 Therefore, Elon Musk's audit of bots won't be... He's basically saying his audit won't work.

00:01:16.000 They're also apparently accusing Elon of violating his non-disclosure agreement by revealing that Twitter only surveyed 100 accounts to figure out how many bots they had on the platform, which is remarkably low, but I also think isn't the full picture.

00:01:33.000 What I imagine they did is, it's 100, 50 times.

00:01:38.000 So they look at 100, they look at 100, they look at 100.

00:01:40.000 But now they're accusing him of violating his NDA.

00:01:42.000 Elon apparently is...

00:01:44.000 It's being reported trying to negotiate lower terms, like a lower price.

00:01:48.000 Personally, I think Elon may have discovered fraud because we know that Twitter has misrepresented their numbers on two different occasions and two different reports.

00:01:55.000 And we had the crazy swing in user accounts the week before they announced their bot numbers.

00:02:01.000 So we'll talk about all that.

00:02:02.000 We got a bunch of other stories we're going to get into.

00:02:05.000 And some of them are going to be... Well, I'll just say this one.

00:02:07.000 We have... I'm trending on Twitter because I made a tweet about abortion. 0.84

00:02:11.000 Because I had a conversation with a friend in New York about abortion, and he didn't know what was in the law, and so I tweeted something that was like, incendiary, and everybody got mad.

00:02:18.000 So we'll talk about that.

00:02:19.000 Plus, we gotta talk about what happened in Buffalo, because, well, for one, it's a tragedy.

00:02:23.000 It's horrifying, and we should definitely be talking about the breaking news.

00:02:27.000 But I also want to talk about...

00:02:30.000 There's been other mass shootings, too.

00:02:31.000 We got Starbucks.

00:02:32.000 They're going to be paying for abortion and gender change surgeries for their staffers. 0.99

00:02:37.000 So a lot going on today, and I'm sure a whole lot more.

00:02:39.000 And joining us to discuss all of this is Matt Bender.

00:02:42.000 Hello, everybody.

00:02:43.000 Pleasure to be here.

00:02:44.000 Looking forward to talking.

00:02:45.000 Absolutely.

00:02:45.000 Matt, who are you?

00:02:46.000 Who am I?

00:02:47.000 Well, for a long time, people probably still, because I'm on there every week.

00:02:51.000 I'm on The Majority Report with Sam Seder.

00:02:53.000 I know you're a big fan, Tim.

00:02:56.000 Also, I have a show called Doomed with Matt Binder that covers the far right, white supremacists, conspiracy theories like QAnon, and I have a show about crypto that takes it on from a leftist perspective called Scam Economy.

00:03:10.000 We are going to have so many disagreements.

00:03:12.000 It's going to be great.

00:03:13.000 It's going to be fun.

00:03:13.000 So we'll definitely talk about that.

00:03:14.000 Thanks for coming.

00:03:15.000 No problem.

00:03:16.000 We have a long history.

00:03:17.000 And I don't think you realize because you've previously spoken about your long history with the majority poet Sam Seder.

00:03:24.000 Wow.

00:03:25.000 One thing.

00:03:27.000 You said it was the first media show to mention.

00:03:29.000 That's a pretty big deal.

00:03:30.000 I mean, you don't forget that.

00:03:31.000 That's right.

00:03:32.000 Sam was your first, whether you like it or not.

00:03:34.000 That's true.

00:03:34.000 Yeah, he said... What did he say?

00:03:37.000 He said I was okay, I think, right?

00:03:39.000 He said Henry was great.

00:03:40.000 This other guy's pretty good.

00:03:42.000 And he played a clip where I was standing up live streaming the Occupiers taking the orange net from us.

00:03:47.000 Oh, right.

00:03:47.000 I remember that, yes.

00:03:48.000 And to be clear, that was Sam's opinion in 2011.

00:03:51.000 I want people to make sure that it's not like Sam afterwards.

00:03:56.000 Like, he thought Tim was just second rate even then.

00:03:58.000 Nope.

00:03:59.000 I get to play that every time and be like, this is now, this is 2022.

00:04:02.000 And then, you know, I, you know, I don't think you knew this till I came on and told you, but when you came on the Majority Report, I was the producer at the time who reached out to you and said, hey, Tim, you should come on the show.

00:04:02.000 Right.

00:04:14.000 Crazy.

00:04:14.000 Yeah.

00:04:15.000 Well, here you are, man.

00:04:15.000 Yeah, here we are.

00:04:16.000 This is gonna be a good conversation.

00:04:17.000 We have a lot to discuss.

00:04:18.000 11 years later.

00:04:20.000 We're old.

00:04:20.000 11 years later.

00:04:21.000 Occupy Wall Street.

00:04:21.000 We're old.

00:04:22.000 You know what's crazy?

00:04:23.000 Yeah, you guys are old.

00:04:24.000 We're old.

00:04:24.000 How old are you?

00:04:25.000 27 is young.

00:04:25.000 27.

00:04:26.000 How old are you?

00:04:27.000 Oh, okay.

00:04:27.000 I'm 35.

00:04:27.000 We're like the same age.

00:04:28.000 Yeah.

00:04:29.000 The crazy thing is during Occupy Wall Street, it was like just, you know, 12 or so years after the battle in Seattle, which I wasn't at because I was too young.

00:04:36.000 Right, yes.

00:04:37.000 And now I'm like 11 years on from Occupy.

00:04:39.000 It's a crazy feeling.

00:04:40.000 It's like, wow.

00:04:41.000 Well, we got a lot to talk about.

00:04:42.000 We also got Seamus.

00:04:43.000 My name's Seamus Coghlan.

00:04:44.000 I create animated, educational, and satirical political cartoons on a channel called Freedom Tunes.

00:04:49.000 Y'all should go over there, check it out.

00:04:51.000 And we also have an announcement to make about the platform tonight.

00:04:54.000 I'm sure I'll do it later.

00:04:55.000 I don't want to derail the entire show with this exciting announcement.

00:04:58.000 We won't really be able to get into any interesting conversations if I do so.

00:05:02.000 Stay tuned, and thank you so much for stopping by the show.

00:05:06.000 And I am also here since Ian is out for the full week.

00:05:09.000 We're going to miss him.

00:05:10.000 He is traveling and he's going to be having a great time.

00:05:12.000 Hopefully.

00:05:13.000 I'm hoping he does.

00:05:14.000 Traveling cross country is not always super fun, but hopefully this is good for him.

00:05:17.000 And yeah, let's read our sponsor.

00:05:18.000 There were people who were saying it, like, it was funny last week, they were like, Ian needs a vacation.

00:05:23.000 But like, not in a negative way, they were like, this guy's been on the show, like, non-stop, never had like, you know, very... And then I was like, that's really interesting that they're saying that, because like, Ian was planning a vacation.

00:05:30.000 Weird timing, yeah.

00:05:31.000 And of course he took off as I come on.

00:05:32.000 I know, I was... I mean, you know, people keep telling me to take a vacation too, and I'm like, never on, you know?

00:05:37.000 It seems like your audience really cares about me.

00:05:40.000 All right, before we get started, my friends, head over to eatrightandfeelwell.com and secure your Keto Elevate from BioTrust.

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00:06:53.000 Again, eatrightandfeelwell.com, 51% off, but don't forget, head over to timcast.com, become a member to support our work.

00:07:01.000 As a member, you'll get access to exclusive segments from the show Monday through Thursday at 8 p.m., so we'll have one of those going up tonight, and you're also helping keep our journalists employed.

00:07:09.000 So, smash that like button, subscribe to this channel, share the show if you really do like it.

00:07:14.000 Now, let's read this first story.

00:07:17.000 The most important story, from Fox Business.

00:07:20.000 Elon Musk sends poop emoji to Twitter CEO in response to thread on spam and fake accounts.

00:07:27.000 Twitter has estimated that spam and fake accounts make up less than 5% of the social media platform's users.

00:07:33.000 Okay, I had to lead with the poop emoji one, but the real story is that Elon Musk may actually... A deal at a lower price is not out of the question.

00:07:42.000 There's a lot to break down in this story, but basically...

00:07:45.000 Elon Musk tweeted out a story from May 2nd where Twitter filed a report saying their users was around 5% of their users were spam or bots.

00:07:55.000 Elon Musk said the deal was on hold until he could verify that.

00:07:58.000 Today the CEO said you can't verify it because we have internal data on who people actually are and it's private that we can't share.

00:08:06.000 That's an interesting point.

00:08:08.000 Elon mentioned that he would take a random sampling of 100 users And then he got accused of, like, that's a ridiculous sample size.

00:08:15.000 You can't use that.

00:08:16.000 So then he revealed, actually, this is Twitter.

00:08:19.000 That's the number they use.

00:08:20.000 Then Twitter apparently called him, or so he says, and accused him of violating his NDA.

00:08:25.000 Things are getting crazy.

00:08:26.000 I'm not entirely convinced the deal will go through.

00:08:28.000 My personal opinion is that Elon Musk is intending to expose algorithmic manipulation and potential fraud as it pertains to bots.

00:08:37.000 Two things we ended up learning since this deal was going through.

00:08:40.000 One, Twitter misrepresented its user accounts by, I think, a couple million on more than one occasion.

00:08:45.000 Even The Verge questioned, how could that have happened?

00:08:48.000 And then we saw the strange shift where people associated with the right, libertarians, started gaining tons of followers, particularly people who are associated with like Marjorie Taylor Greene or Matt Gaetz gained a ton.

00:08:59.000 But then we saw Barack Obama lose a bit.

00:09:01.000 We saw Katy Perry lose a bit.

00:09:03.000 If you were associated with the mainstream or the left, you were losing followers.

00:09:08.000 Now, to me, my theory is algorithmic manipulation, but I'm curious what your guys' thoughts are.

00:09:12.000 I don't know.

00:09:13.000 Matt?

00:09:13.000 I mean, I think when it comes to that, I think people were just reacting to the news of Elon Musk.

00:09:17.000 I think people heard what Elon Musk was planning to do in terms of bringing back banned users, specifically one Donald Trump.

00:09:24.000 And I think you had a number of people who lean left or maybe apolitical, but just don't like Donald Trump or people of that, you know, of that political affiliation.

00:09:33.000 And they Deactivated their account.

00:09:36.000 I'm not even saying they left for good.

00:09:37.000 They just deactivated as a protest.

00:09:40.000 And, you know, conservatives definitely came back because they heard Elon Musk.

00:09:43.000 And you saw this a lot.

00:09:44.000 Conservatives actually think, and I can't say all, but the ones that you see on Twitter randomly, like, you saw all these big conservative, like, influencers come on and go like, oh, I'm back because of Elon Musk.

00:09:56.000 And it's like, why are you lying to your followers?

00:09:59.000 That's not true.

00:09:59.000 You're not back because of Elon Musk because Elon Musk didn't do anything.

00:10:02.000 He doesn't own Twitter yet.

00:10:03.000 Who came back?

00:10:04.000 Well, you had Tucker Carlson act like he came back because— No, he was suspended, I think.

00:10:09.000 Yeah, he was suspended, and he acted like—he could have unsuspended himself at any time.

00:10:13.000 He had to delete a single tweet.

00:10:15.000 He chose on the day that Elon Musk announced he was going to purchase—all that news came out about Elon Musk purchasing Twitter.

00:10:22.000 He decided on that day to tweet that, uh, I'm back.

00:10:26.000 There were a few others who said that, too.

00:10:28.000 I can look them up in a second, if you want.

00:10:29.000 For sure.

00:10:30.000 Yeah.

00:10:30.000 I'm familiar with that.

00:10:31.000 And it's like, why are you—because they know.

00:10:33.000 Like, Tucker Carlson knows because he did what—Charlie Kirk's another one.

00:10:37.000 He said he was back?

00:10:38.000 He said he was back on Twitter.

00:10:40.000 He had to delete a tweet.

00:10:41.000 Oh, right, right, right, right.

00:10:42.000 Because they all had tweeted something that goes against Twitter's policy.

00:10:45.000 But hold on.

00:10:46.000 So, right.

00:10:46.000 So, did they delete the tweets or were they reinstated?

00:10:49.000 No, they deleted the tweets.

00:10:50.000 Do you know that for sure?

00:10:51.000 I know that for sure.

00:10:51.000 Do you know who the red-headed libertarian is?

00:10:53.000 I'm not familiar with the red-handed limiter.

00:10:54.000 She's my go-to example of this one.

00:10:56.000 She was suspended in January of 2021 for no reason.

00:10:59.000 Right.

00:10:59.000 Like, she didn't break any rules.

00:11:01.000 They didn't tell her why she was suspended, but she got reinstated the following day.

00:11:05.000 Sure.

00:11:05.000 So there were a whole bunch of people that, you know, that we saw who were saying things like, I was suspended until now.

00:11:11.000 We had people chatting us like, I haven't been on Twitter because I've been banned.

00:11:15.000 Let me check.

00:11:15.000 Whoa, my account's back.

00:11:17.000 Well, do they know that it was back before that?

00:11:18.000 For all they know, that suspension could have lifted in the weeks, months before.

00:11:22.000 They got emails.

00:11:23.000 It's possible.

00:11:23.000 It's anecdotal, right?

00:11:24.000 But we do know that those big influencers who could have deleted, they weren't suspended and had nothing they could do to get back on.

00:11:31.000 They specifically were told, delete this offending, the policy that offends, the tweet that offends our policy, excuse me, delete that and you can come back on.

00:11:39.000 That's the rule for certain content that goes against their policy.

00:11:42.000 It's not a full-blown suspension.

00:11:44.000 And they could have done it at any time, chose not to, and the day Elon Musk's news broke, they basically came back and decided— But do you know—I don't think you can say you know that Tucker deleted the tweet.

00:11:55.000 The tweet's not there anymore.

00:11:56.000 Maybe they deleted it.

00:11:57.000 No, they don't do that.

00:11:58.000 They don't do that for that occasion.

00:12:00.000 It does sound like they deleted the tweet.

00:12:00.000 I would agree, too.

00:12:02.000 They definitely deleted the tweet.

00:12:03.000 I mean, maybe, but maybe it's like you're saying, people joined the platform because Elon was moving in.

00:12:03.000 And then came back.

00:12:09.000 So they were like, OK, I'll come back now.

00:12:10.000 And they chose to.

00:12:11.000 Yeah, they chose to maybe now decide to delete the tweet.

00:12:13.000 Sure, that could have been one occasion.

00:12:14.000 Here's the challenge I have with this idea.

00:12:17.000 I mean, I think we've talked about it quite a bit.

00:12:20.000 I think fraud.

00:12:21.000 And the reason is, on the surface, that makes the most sense.

00:12:24.000 Twitter said, People deactivating their accounts was organic.

00:12:28.000 I don't know if they commented on people signing up or joining.

00:12:32.000 I pulled up my Twitter numbers here.

00:12:34.000 We can see that on April 25th, I gained 19,000.

00:12:38.000 On April 27th, I gained 39,000.

00:12:40.000 On the 28th, 47,000.

00:12:41.000 It's crazy.

00:12:42.000 But on Monday, the day that the news actually broke, I only gained 1,000.

00:12:46.000 It was 8 a.m.

00:12:48.000 Why did no one sign up on the day of?

00:12:50.000 Why did they wait 24 hours after the fact?

00:12:51.000 I've got no idea.

00:12:52.000 I mean, there's something certainly interesting going on at Twitter right now, and I don't think anyone could really explain it.

00:12:57.000 Why did Katy Perry lose 200,000 followers? 0.76

00:12:59.000 Well, I'm sure she has a user base that's mainly young, millennial, Gen Z, and we know from They're not big fans of Donald Trump.

00:13:09.000 Why the following Monday did Twitter put out its report on its total numbers of bots and spam the week before we have this weird thing happen a day after the sale is announced?

00:13:18.000 So here's my train of thought.

00:13:20.000 I don't think you're wrong.

00:13:22.000 I think what I see as being more probable is Monday at 8 a.m.

00:13:26.000 they announce they're in the final discussion.

00:13:29.000 Nothing happens.

00:13:30.000 It was at 2.53pm, I think, they officially announced that Elon, 2.52 maybe, had officially secured the deal.

00:13:39.000 That night, something changed.

00:13:41.000 So the next morning, massive growth of followers, tons of people, you know, like aside from Tucker and other people who are like on suspension to remove a tweet, There were people who were saying that they were banned, and the example that I go to, and again, it's anecdotal, it's not, you know, like, more than that.

00:13:55.000 The right-handed libertarian who had created a new account was banned, and we don't know why, all of a sudden getting reinstated a year later, but 24 hours after the fact.

00:14:03.000 The drop-off in followers was the same thing 24 hours after.

00:14:07.000 So I'd imagine that the morning they announced Elon Musk was going to buy the platform, people would have started signing up and coming back, right?

00:14:13.000 Maybe.

00:14:14.000 I mean, I really, I don't think either of us could really speak to this.

00:14:17.000 We could only speculate.

00:14:18.000 I mean, because there could have been things happening behind the scenes at Twitter.

00:14:22.000 There could be external factors where third parties decided to literally manipulate it so that people like you and me would sit here and pontificate about what could possibly have happened.

00:14:31.000 I mean, we just don't know.

00:14:32.000 That's one of the, you know, that's one of the issues.

00:14:34.000 And, you know, I think in terms of this particular story, I think the bigger thing here is, You know, Elon Musk knew this information.

00:14:42.000 He announced that Reuters, he shared that Reuters story about the 10%, less than 10%, less than 5%.

00:14:50.000 Was it 5?

00:14:51.000 I'm pretty sure it was 10.

00:14:52.000 5.

00:14:52.000 It might be 5.

00:14:53.000 Whatever the percentage was.

00:14:53.000 Okay.

00:14:54.000 Here you go.

00:14:55.000 Well under 5%.

00:14:55.000 I got Axios.

00:14:56.000 Okay.

00:14:57.000 So he had that information that under 5% were spam.

00:15:01.000 But the Reuters story he shared, that's from the Twitter filing that he had already in the prior week or two when he announced he was going to buy Twitter.

00:15:11.000 Like, he knew this.

00:15:12.000 He had their filing before they filed it?

00:15:14.000 He knew, no, he knew the information.

00:15:16.000 He was let in, obviously, on what he had to make a decision on whether to buy the company or not.

00:15:20.000 So they would let him, they would let them know what their projections are or what their, you know, what their, their finances are.

00:15:26.000 Where did you hear that?

00:15:27.000 Well, they would, it's part of the, it's part of the deal.

00:15:29.000 That's where it's from.

00:15:30.000 It's like it's in the deal itself.

00:15:32.000 It says that we gave Elon information on these things.

00:15:35.000 He had a bunch of information.

00:15:37.000 That's how he makes the determination to buy the company around.

00:15:40.000 Sounds like he didn't have that information and that's why he's raising an issue about it.

00:15:43.000 I mean, perhaps.

00:15:44.000 I mean, it's weird that he would, you know, it's weird that he would go about doing this.

00:15:48.000 Me personally, I thought, you know, a lot of people were worried.

00:15:50.000 that Elon Musk would change Twitter and that's why people left and that's why there was all this.

00:15:56.000 I'm not worried about Twitter in terms of Elon Musk doing horrible things to content moderation.

00:16:02.000 Maybe he will, maybe he won't. I think he's just mostly a hype man. He likes the attention,

00:16:06.000 he likes to say a lot of things and not deliver.

00:16:08.000 I I think the biggest threat to Twitter when it comes to Elon Musk is he seems to not understand social media.

00:16:16.000 He doesn't understand the business of social media at all.

00:16:19.000 If you look at his ideas to generate revenue, he wants users to pay to use Twitter.

00:16:24.000 It's not going to happen.

00:16:26.000 Well, I think he said high profile users.

00:16:27.000 So if individuals using Twitter would not have to pay for it.

00:16:30.000 But if you were a larger brand or a government, you would have to pay some kind of fee.

00:16:33.000 Well, I would definitely do that.

00:16:35.000 I mean, maybe you would, but there's also a lot of companies that just wouldn't.

00:16:39.000 Basic users who would be influential.

00:16:41.000 The idea that everyone who's got a blue checkmark or anyone who's got a lot of followers is automatically someone of means or something like that.

00:16:49.000 Three bucks a month.

00:16:51.000 Three dollars.

00:16:52.000 People wouldn't pay.

00:16:53.000 People wouldn't.

00:16:54.000 I think they would.

00:16:55.000 I mean, what he's talking about is a suite of tools and access to fix problems and to help the high profile customers.

00:17:03.000 I think he's right.

00:17:04.000 I think if you look at most digital services, they offer a Hey, if you pay this premium package, we'll give you access to these backend tools, these analytics and things like that.

00:17:15.000 We pay for a bunch of Google tools.

00:17:17.000 I have multiple Google reps for all the different stuff we use.

00:17:19.000 We have nothing like that for Twitter.

00:17:21.000 I've even bought Twitter ads and there's no one to talk to.

00:17:25.000 Right, because Twitter users don't necessarily react to Twitter ads.

00:17:28.000 It's not the same business model.

00:17:29.000 Oh, they do.

00:17:30.000 I got a million hits on my song by buying an ad for it.

00:17:30.000 They do.

00:17:33.000 Right.

00:17:33.000 For real.

00:17:34.000 No, but there's all sorts of different types of advertisements.

00:17:36.000 I mean, just look at Twitter's revenue.

00:17:37.000 It's nowhere near the amount that, you know, Facebook or Google makes.

00:17:41.000 It's just not the same audience.

00:17:42.000 They just don't— But you're making the case for Elon.

00:17:44.000 The company's being run really bad.

00:17:47.000 Oh no, no doubt about it.

00:17:48.000 Twitter.

00:17:49.000 I was talking about this with someone earlier.

00:17:51.000 In terms of the big tech companies, Twitter was the most susceptible to something like this.

00:17:54.000 You know, Elon can't afford Google or Elon can't afford Facebook.

00:17:59.000 He can't afford, you know, any Apple, Amazon, Microsoft.

00:18:03.000 They're well beyond the amount he could, he could barely even do Twitter.

00:18:07.000 He needs to bring a whole bunch of people on board.

00:18:08.000 And he needs to sell a lot of Tesla stock.

00:18:12.000 But it's the one platform that's in this realm that has the same sort of cache as those other platforms.

00:18:21.000 Like when you think of the big tech platforms, you throw Twitter in there even though they're nowhere near as big when you look behind the curtain.

00:18:28.000 They're the most important though.

00:18:30.000 In a sense, depending on what your niche is, depending on what your industry is.

00:18:35.000 In terms of media and news, for sure, but I'm sure if you talk to people outside those industries, again, we're in this bubble here.

00:18:41.000 So to us, we probably, I mean, I use Twitter more than anything else too.

00:18:45.000 We're definitely in a bubble.

00:18:46.000 I think that's a problem with a lot of things going on.

00:18:47.000 I don't are in a bubble and they don't realize that they're basically, you know

00:18:51.000 Just taking information as they see it through their own lens and there's whole other worlds on other platforms even

00:18:57.000 on Twitter There's whole other worlds that you probably don't don't

00:19:00.000 even know who Tim pool is period. Oh for sure. Yeah Yeah, I've tracked the there's a really cool mapping thing

00:19:05.000 They do they've made multiple where it shows you like the different universes on Twitter and how they can connect and

00:19:11.000 some don't There's a cluster of people, it's really small, that has zero connection to the rest of the platform in any way, and it's the weirdest thing.

00:19:20.000 I've seen one where there was a couple of users, and I'm just like, what are they talking about?

00:19:23.000 We need to figure out what they're doing over there.

00:19:24.000 Yeah, what are they doing over there by themselves?

00:19:26.000 I think, though, it's the most important because it's the town square.

00:19:31.000 Facebook isn't.

00:19:32.000 Facebook is... Oh, that's what Twitter brands itself as, for sure.

00:19:35.000 Right.

00:19:36.000 So Twitter is, you know, news stories are set here.

00:19:39.000 They got you, Tim.

00:19:40.000 No, they do.

00:19:40.000 No, for sure.

00:19:41.000 I mean, I started on Twitter because of Occupy, and it was a way to get news out really quick.

00:19:45.000 And because people who do news and politics use it, it's become influential in the space of news and politics.

00:19:51.000 And because it is, That's why you don't want to libs of tick tock is setting

00:19:55.000 policy inadvertently.

00:19:56.000 Now, cool. No, for sure. I mean, they repost these videos and all of a sudden it's impacting

00:20:02.000 laws in other states. So Twitter, Facebook doesn't do that. Right. YouTube. I mean, they'll

00:20:07.000 do it a little bit because they're information platforms that have influence, but

00:20:10.000 Twitter, man. I mean, so, so many have argued this.

00:20:13.000 I mean, people at corporate press have even argued this.

00:20:15.000 Facebook does disseminate information to people who would be more likely to believe in something they read online based on it being falsified or not factual.

00:20:27.000 Simply because they seem to be the more common everyday user in terms of like, you know, your parents, your parents are on Facebook, you know, family members use Facebook for all sorts of different reasons.

00:20:39.000 And people share things on Facebook that, you know, they just sort of passively read or, you know, take in and they just shared people that follow them on Facebook.

00:20:50.000 Well, and I think you kind of hit the nail on the head there when you discussed family specifically, a huge part of why people use Facebook, based on my own experience, and the reason people use Instagram is because they're keeping in touch with people around them, whereas with platforms like Twitter and YouTube, yeah, they're also social media platforms, but they're much more about seeking information from complete strangers or people who you've come to trust over the years because you like their, you know, angle on things.

00:21:14.000 Sure.

00:21:14.000 Yeah.

00:21:15.000 Let's talk about this story we got from Project Veritas that broke just a moment ago.

00:21:19.000 We have this from Project Veritas, I tweeted out.

00:21:22.000 Breaking from Veritas, Twitter employee confirms bias at Twitter.

00:21:25.000 And I'll give you my opinion.

00:21:27.000 Seems I was right.

00:21:28.000 Because conservatives tolerate leftist speech, and leftists won't tolerate the right, Twitter opts to censor the right as balance.

00:21:36.000 So I'll play a bit of this, and you can hear from himself.

00:21:40.000 What do you love?

00:21:42.000 Capitalism.

00:21:44.000 We weren't really operating in a capitalist mode.

00:21:46.000 We were very socialist.

00:21:48.000 Like, we're all, like, communist.

00:21:51.000 Ideologically, it doesn't make sense because we're actually censoring the right, not the left.

00:21:57.000 So everyone on the right wing will be like, bro, it's okay to say, you just got to tolerate it.

00:22:02.000 The left will be like, no, I'm not going to tolerate it.

00:22:05.000 I need a censor.

00:22:06.000 Or else I'm not going to be able to talk.

00:22:09.000 So it does double right.

00:22:11.000 It's true.

00:22:12.000 I don't know if the two parties can truly coexist on one platform.

00:22:17.000 What do your colleagues say about it?

00:22:20.000 They hate it.

00:22:21.000 Oh my god.

00:22:21.000 I'm at least okay with it, but some of my colleagues are super left, left, left, left, left, left.

00:22:28.000 What do they say?

00:22:29.000 They're like, this will be my last day if it happens.

00:22:34.000 So I'll pause it there.

00:22:35.000 I think we all know the stories about the political leanings of people at Twitter's stance.

00:22:40.000 If Elon gets hired, they're like, we're out.

00:22:42.000 But for me, when I saw this, what I found interesting was what I've said before is it's a business decision.

00:22:48.000 You got to take a look at it from Twitter's perspective.

00:22:50.000 People like Ben Shapiro are memed for saying, debate me, right?

00:22:54.000 The right wants to own the libs.

00:22:56.000 They want to be on Twitter.

00:22:56.000 They want to argue with liberals.

00:22:58.000 So they like seeing these tweets.

00:23:00.000 Libs of TikTok is a really good example.

00:23:02.000 Libs of TikTok reposts the things the left says, like, see, hey, look at this.

00:23:07.000 On the left, however, they're the ones that are flagging.

00:23:09.000 They're the ones saying these people should be banned.

00:23:12.000 You mentioned earlier that some of these people had violated the rules and that they had been suspended.

00:23:16.000 Yeah, sure.

00:23:17.000 They could come back.

00:23:18.000 So my point a couple weeks ago was if Twitter is confronted with this from a business perspective, They're going to say the right doesn't care if the left is saying things as much.

00:23:30.000 The left does care if the right is saying things.

00:23:32.000 So purely from a business perspective, we'll ban as many on the right as we can without disrupting as many users as possible.

00:23:38.000 And then we don't got to ban the left because the right's not going to do anything about it anyway.

00:23:42.000 Well, I mean, Twitter has a very clear... Well, first of all, I just want to say that Libs of TikTok does a little bit more than just reposting what leftists say on TikTok.

00:23:50.000 We could get into that maybe in a little bit.

00:23:51.000 But on this topic, you know, Twitter has a pretty clear set of rules and guidelines on their website.

00:23:59.000 And it seems like maybe just right-wing accounts break those policies more so than left-wing accounts. 0.99

00:24:07.000 I know plenty of people who got banned or suspended from Twitter for just literally saying like, you know, fuck you or, you know, something like that. 0.98

00:24:18.000 And they get the, you know, this is not part of the Twitter policy. 0.99

00:24:21.000 You're suspended for... I know people who got suspended, not even just to delete the tweet and come back.

00:24:26.000 People who got suspended outright had to start new accounts for something like that.

00:24:29.000 Are you familiar with Learn to Code?

00:24:32.000 So the editor in chief of the Daily Caller was commenting on the phenomenon and got suspended for it.

00:24:32.000 Yes.

00:24:38.000 So there were tons of people, and I think this may be what we're seeing come back with the big surge in right-wing users, at least partly.

00:24:45.000 We also have to be careful with this video here.

00:24:48.000 Project Veritas has a long history of disseminating edited footage.

00:24:54.000 Well, I mean, everybody posts edited footage.

00:24:55.000 No, I mean, edited footage that got sued by people who lost their job.

00:25:00.000 James O'Keefe.

00:25:02.000 Acorn!

00:25:03.000 When Acorn was closed down, because James O'Keefe released that pimp video, if you recall that, he got sued and he lost because there was more video to it.

00:25:12.000 And everything he said that this woman didn't, you know, didn't do, she actually went ahead and did.

00:25:17.000 He had to pay her.

00:25:18.000 He had to pay.

00:25:18.000 I think he settled that.

00:25:19.000 I don't think he lost.

00:25:20.000 But you can call it a loss in terms of... I mean, if he's settling... Well, has he lost anything since he formed Project Veritas?

00:25:27.000 Maybe.

00:25:28.000 No, the answer is no, he hasn't.

00:25:28.000 We have to check.

00:25:30.000 Maybe he hasn't.

00:25:31.000 So, you know, like, we've had James on the show.

00:25:33.000 We've talked to him about it.

00:25:34.000 He said settling was the biggest mistake he made because they weren't wrong, but...

00:25:38.000 I want to put words in his mouth because I can't speak to this.

00:25:40.000 This was before he formed Veritas.

00:25:43.000 Since Veritas has been around, they've not lost.

00:25:46.000 I'm pretty sure they've not lost a single lawsuit.

00:25:48.000 In fact, they've won over and over and over again.

00:25:51.000 Yeah, and it has a whole wall of all the news organizations who have backed down and rescinded everything.

00:25:56.000 So I'm pretty sure he's not lost anything.

00:25:57.000 Yeah, and that lawsuit was not necessarily just about them claiming they were misrepresented.

00:26:01.000 A lot of it had to do with California's two-party consent laws with respect to recording somebody.

00:26:06.000 Was that it?

00:26:07.000 Yeah, California's two-party consent.

00:26:09.000 Look, I'm not... I think my issue with the Veritas stuff and the arguments against them, easily exemplified by I think it was Channel 4 in the UK did the exact same thing Veritas does, and it was just heaps of praise all across the media.

00:26:24.000 A deceptive, like, they lie to the targets, they go in, and they say, like, here's who we are, and it's not true, and then they secretly record them, and then they publish it on the news.

00:26:34.000 And it was praised by all the big mainstream publications.

00:26:36.000 That's exactly what Veritas does. 0.74

00:26:38.000 So if you do undercover reporting, then, I mean, I don't see what the issue is.

00:26:42.000 In the settlement, James O'Keefe claimed he was unaware that the woman who was suing him literally did everything that he claimed that she didn't.

00:26:52.000 She called the police the second he came in and she warned them about what was going on and what she was experiencing.

00:26:59.000 When did this happen?

00:27:01.000 This was in 2013.

00:27:04.000 And was that Project Veritas or James O'Keefe?

00:27:07.000 I guess it was James O'Keefe.

00:27:08.000 I mean, James O'Keefe is Project Veritas.

00:27:11.000 So, look, let's just say James O'Keefe, 10 years ago, did a bad story.

00:27:18.000 No, but he also did that thing where there was that person who was dropping off ballots in, I think it was Minnesota, and the person came out and said that he completely distorted what he said.

00:27:30.000 They're on video doing it.

00:27:33.000 But that's legal.

00:27:34.000 That's okay to do, what he was doing.

00:27:35.000 No, it's not.

00:27:36.000 It is.

00:27:36.000 You could drop off ballots.

00:27:37.000 That's what happened.

00:27:38.000 Oh man, we got to pull up all the sources.

00:27:40.000 Yeah, let's pull them up.

00:27:41.000 He had a car full of ballots and said he was, what did he say, he was getting paid to drop them off?

00:27:46.000 I mean, that's illegal.

00:27:48.000 Well, let me look it up.

00:27:50.000 But I'll put it this way.

00:27:53.000 We'll pull that up because I want to make sure we have it all correct and everything.

00:27:58.000 I know that there were accusations against James over that one.

00:28:02.000 But my issue is just like, how many stories has Project Veritas put out?

00:28:06.000 How many real substantive issues have people criticized him over?

00:28:10.000 And then I'll say, first of all, I'll put it this way.

00:28:14.000 I'm pretty sure that was illegal because we covered that extensively, and we went through all the laws and stuff.

00:28:19.000 I don't know if Seamus wants to look it up.

00:28:21.000 You can look it up, too, and we'll make sure we get the facts right.

00:28:24.000 But, man, I don't understand why all of this is directed at a handful of stories Veritas does when you have, every other day, fake news coming out of the Washington Post, out of the New York Times, out of CNN.

00:28:36.000 Huge stories, too, years-long spans of lies and manipulations, some that result in major lawsuits, too.

00:28:42.000 You know, we still use CNN, The Washington Post, and The New York Times, despite the Covington kids' lawsuits that they're all being sued over and losing, because we recognize that news organizations get things wrong.

00:28:52.000 Unless there's evidence to suggest something was not correct about it, I don't understand why we would not just hold the scrutiny of any organization.

00:29:01.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:29:02.000 That includes every media, yeah.

00:29:04.000 So when, you know, CNN or The New York Times can come out and say, sources say, Or people familiar with Trump's thinking have confirmed.

00:29:12.000 I'm just like, yo, the news, the news, like mainstream press rolls with those.

00:29:16.000 And Veritas published a video.

00:29:18.000 Now, by all means, you can say the video is deceptively edited if you don't believe it's true.

00:29:22.000 But New York Times doesn't even put out who their sources are at the time.

00:29:25.000 Well, I mean, that's basic journalism.

00:29:27.000 You could not trust corporate media if you'd like.

00:29:29.000 But there are surely well-respected, specific reporters and journalists who have a track record of good work.

00:29:36.000 What if James O'Keefe, instead of revealing the video, just said, we have a source within Twitter who has said this thing?

00:29:42.000 Well, James O'Keefe is a known liar based on what we've previously heard about the settlements and stuff, so I mean— Hold on, I gotta tell you.

00:29:53.000 Back that up.

00:29:55.000 I mean, he paid a settlement, $100,000 to this woman, and he admitted that he lied about what she said on the video.

00:30:02.000 As long as you're saying that that's true and you're willing to stand behind it.

00:30:05.000 I mean, he said it in his settlement.

00:30:10.000 I'm just saying that because James has basically sued every single person who has accused him, and he's won every single case.

00:30:15.000 I mean, if he wants to dispute the fact that he paid this woman $100,000 because he said that he claimed that she didn't call the police when he came in with his pimp suit claiming what he claimed, And she did, and he said he didn't know, but he put the video out, didn't ask her, I guess, afterwards.

00:30:32.000 Look, look, look, I can, you know, I can, we can say yes, like, it was wrong, James did a bad thing, but I mean, how does that discredit the story?

00:30:40.000 Which story?

00:30:40.000 The Twitter story.

00:30:41.000 Oh, all I'm saying is, we don't know the whole conversation that went on there.

00:30:45.000 I agree with that, for sure.

00:30:47.000 So we have to go by what we have.

00:30:49.000 It's also like honestly a very like low bore.

00:30:52.000 I mean so the accusation is that what?

00:30:56.000 That leftists won't tolerate the right?

00:30:58.000 I mean well that's one of the...

00:30:59.000 Okay but I mean they're just basically...

00:31:02.000 What are they doing?

00:31:03.000 They're reporting a tweet for something that this right-winger said that would

00:31:08.000 either A. Not break Twitter policies so there would be no punishment.

00:31:12.000 Let's talk about the misgendering policy.

00:31:14.000 Or B. There would then be...

00:31:14.000 Misgendering policy, right?

00:31:16.000 Misgendering policy, yep.

00:31:17.000 That's Swedish policy.

00:31:18.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:31:19.000 And it's biased against conservatives.

00:31:21.000 How is it biased against conservatives?

00:31:23.000 Conservatives don't agree with the concept of misgendering.

00:31:25.000 I mean... Not a single one, right?

00:31:28.000 I mean, it's just basic respect if you ask me.

00:31:30.000 It doesn't matter if... I'm not... Well, that's if you ask you coming from a left-wing perspective, right?

00:31:33.000 But I'm not making a moral statement.

00:31:35.000 I'm saying conservatives don't agree with the concept of misgendering, right?

00:31:39.000 That's a fact.

00:31:40.000 I mean, maybe there are conservatives that don't.

00:31:42.000 I mean, that do agree.

00:31:43.000 Well, but, I mean, do you think conservatives agree with the concept of misgendering?

00:31:46.000 I mean, vast majority, yeah, sure.

00:31:48.000 You think they agree that misgendering is a thing?

00:31:51.000 No, no, they agree that they should have the right to misgender someone. 0.86

00:31:53.000 Right, they don't believe it exists.

00:31:55.000 You view it as, they think they should be allowed to, but conservatives don't think it's a thing.

00:32:00.000 Right?

00:32:00.000 So you've got how many, what, 74 million Trump voters?

00:32:04.000 I'd say the overwhelming majority are like, either don't know what it even means, or if you look at the staunch conservatives, would outright say, it's not possible.

00:32:11.000 Well, we have to be very specific here about, I'm all for someone learning and understanding and using the wrong language.

00:32:16.000 I mean, I know plenty of people on the left.

00:32:18.000 I do myself sometimes.

00:32:19.000 I use the wrong pronoun or whatever for someone who, you know, does not identify as that gender. 0.76

00:32:24.000 And if someone's coming at it in good faith and not meaning to, you know, to harm somebody or be, you know, Well, I don't want to deviate too much.

00:32:33.000 But you brought up that there's conservatives who don't even know that's a thing.

00:32:38.000 Now, if one of those conservatives does that thing on Twitter and then someone's just like, hey, you're misgendering me.

00:32:42.000 And then they're just like, oh, I'm sorry.

00:32:44.000 Or just, dude, I mean, people say dude all the time.

00:32:48.000 And Zuby got banned for it.

00:32:49.000 He got a suspension for saying, okay, dude.

00:32:51.000 In what context did he say it, though?

00:32:53.000 Zuby's not someone who doesn't know what misgendering is.

00:32:55.000 He's someone who clearly knows.

00:32:56.000 He wasn't misgendering.

00:32:57.000 He was saying, dude, in an informal context, like we say, okay, dude.

00:33:00.000 Here's the point, here's the point.

00:33:01.000 You're making a moral statement, I'm not making a moral statement.

00:33:04.000 We know conservatives don't agree, we know the left does.

00:33:06.000 Twitter has a policy that the left agrees with, the right doesn't.

00:33:09.000 Therefore, Twitter has a policy biased against the right.

00:33:11.000 That's a simple fact statement.

00:33:14.000 I mean, if you're coming from the position that if you don't agree that this is a thing, I mean... Twitter is saying it's a thing.

00:33:23.000 It's their platform.

00:33:24.000 They're saying this is a thing on our platform.

00:33:25.000 You're misunderstanding.

00:33:26.000 How am I misunderstanding?

00:33:27.000 I'm not making a moral statement.

00:33:29.000 I'm not saying Twitter is right or wrong.

00:33:31.000 Twitter is well within its rights to have whatever rules it wants.

00:33:34.000 Conservatives disagree with the concept.

00:33:40.000 Twitter's rules suit the view of the left and not the right.

00:33:46.000 That's simply put.

00:33:46.000 I mean, Twitter's deciding to make those rules.

00:33:48.000 Absolutely, we agree on that.

00:33:50.000 So if conservatives don't agree with those rules, Twitter's rule set is biased against the conservative worldview.

00:33:55.000 I mean, there's all sorts of rules I don't agree with too, but that doesn't mean they're biased against my worldview.

00:33:59.000 I mean, the misgendering thing is clearly cut.

00:34:03.000 Obviously, if we want to nitpick, you can talk about the various right-wing factions and what they believe.

00:34:08.000 I mean, if you don't agree that trans people exist when they clearly do, then I don't know what to tell you. 0.84

00:34:13.000 I don't know who said that on the right.

00:34:14.000 I mean, I'm on the right.

00:34:16.000 Look, I don't believe in the concept of transgenderism. 1.00

00:34:18.000 I don't believe there's a difference between gender and sex.

00:34:22.000 And I would say that Tim is making a descriptive statement.

00:34:25.000 He's not saying that it's good or bad that Twitter has this specific policy.

00:34:28.000 He's just saying that on the issue of transgenderism, Twitter has clearly taken a side.

00:34:33.000 And their side is that a person's gender identity is a concept which supersedes their biological identity.

00:34:41.000 Okay, but decision they made as a platform, which is a politically biased decision

00:34:44.000 I mean, they're basically saying trans people exist though, because if you take that away then what is I mean, what do

00:34:48.000 you I?

00:34:48.000 Don't know. I'm not quite I mean, I know what you're arguing

00:34:51.000 But you're basically saying it's biased against conservatives to admit that trans people exist by now. That's

00:34:57.000 not what they're doing Yeah

00:34:59.000 They're not saying show people. Yes They're saying you are forced to acknowledge that you

00:35:03.000 believe this identity is the identity even if you don't agree with that

00:35:06.000 They're also not a platform Yeah, because that's what the misgendering policy is.

00:35:09.000 They're not even saying that they're saying you have to use this language or we will ban you.

00:35:13.000 Okay.

00:35:13.000 Conservatives say, I do not believe in the use of that language.

00:35:17.000 And it's overt.

00:35:18.000 I mean, I would say 99 out of 100 conservatives would be like, I'm not going to use preferred pronouns.

00:35:24.000 If Twitter's rules are in line with your worldview or a progressive worldview, they're biased against conservatives.

00:35:30.000 I think we agree on that.

00:35:30.000 I don't think we're arguing.

00:35:31.000 I mean, I don't think it's biased against conservatives, to be quite honest, but we could go in circles on this or we could just, you know, it's up to you.

00:35:36.000 So you think conservatives are... You're not making sense, man.

00:35:41.000 I mean, what do you mean?

00:35:42.000 If you basically tell someone... We know conservatives don't use the concept of misgendering.

00:35:48.000 We know conservatives will call a trans woman he, right? 0.98

00:35:51.000 Yes.

00:35:52.000 Therefore, Twitter's rules are not fitting what conservatives do and think on a daily basis.

00:35:59.000 I mean, you could argue— It is, like, it's 1 plus 1 equals 2.

00:36:03.000 It's, like, just right there in front of you.

00:36:04.000 I mean, you could argue that about anything, though.

00:36:06.000 Like what?

00:36:06.000 What do you mean, like what?

00:36:07.000 Like, you can't say the N-word on Twitter.

00:36:09.000 And do conservatives want to say the N-word?

00:36:11.000 Yeah.

00:36:12.000 No, they don't.

00:36:12.000 Oh, please!

00:36:14.000 They do!

00:36:15.000 See— Not all conservatives, but the subsection of Twitter that does want to is certainly on the right.

00:36:22.000 There are people who like using bad words on the right.

00:36:25.000 There are people who like using bad words on the left.

00:36:27.000 I'm not going to make a blanket statement that every leftist wants to advocate for Antifa going and killing people, but there are certainly Antifa that go around advocating for killing people, right?

00:36:37.000 How many people have advocated for killing Libs of TikTok?

00:36:39.000 A large amount.

00:36:40.000 We can pull up tweets.

00:36:41.000 How many people have advocated for serious physical harm to Andy Ngo?

00:36:44.000 I'm not going to sit here and say everyone on the left wants to violently harm Andy Ngo.

00:36:48.000 There are people who did it.

00:36:49.000 There are good and bad people.

00:36:51.000 The issue is, Sure.

00:36:52.000 You don't have to use someone's pronouns at all, though.

00:36:54.000 Shapiro. He will say, I do not use preferred pronouns. Sure.

00:36:58.000 He's got one of the top podcasts in the world and Twitter's rules conflict with one of the

00:37:03.000 biggest podcasts in the world.

00:37:05.000 You don't, you don't, you don't, you don't have to use someone's pronouns at all though.

00:37:09.000 I mean, you could easily talk about that individual by their name.

00:37:12.000 I mean, but I'm not making, like I said, I'm not making a moral statement.

00:37:15.000 If Ben Shapiro wants to say he, he's told he can't or he'll be banned.

00:37:18.000 Well, I mean, that's just Twitter's rules.

00:37:20.000 Twitter's rules fit the leftist worldview.

00:37:22.000 Well, I mean, if a left-winger also wants to do that, then they can't either.

00:37:27.000 Right, but the left tends to agree with that perspective.

00:37:29.000 It's the leftist worldview.

00:37:30.000 Or it's a component of it.

00:37:31.000 I mean, yes, left people agree that trans people exist.

00:37:34.000 Who's arguing they don't exist?

00:37:35.000 Why do you keep saying that?

00:37:36.000 Because if you're not gonna basically acknowledge someone's gender identity, then you're saying trans people don't exist.

00:37:42.000 What does that mean, trans people don't exist?

00:37:44.000 That someone's not trans. 0.99

00:37:45.000 What do you mean?

00:37:47.000 So, Seamus can argue, what do you say, transgenderism doesn't exist or what?

00:37:51.000 Yeah, I don't believe gender and sex are... I don't believe in the concept of gender.

00:37:55.000 It was developed, the term was first coined by Dr. John Money, who was like a pedophile and sex pervert who abused children, and created this idea that we can make this false distinguishing between a person's actual biological sex and the sex they should be treated as within society.

00:38:11.000 I don't think it's a legitimate concept.

00:38:13.000 I believe and I agree that there are people Who struggle with their identity.

00:38:17.000 I think there are people who are deeply confused about their sexual identity.

00:38:21.000 I do not believe a man can ever become a woman or that a woman can ever become a man. 1.00

00:38:25.000 I don't.

00:38:26.000 Yeah.

00:38:27.000 That's what you believe.

00:38:27.000 All right.

00:38:28.000 But I mean, I don't know the information that you just said in terms of, I could look it up, but, um, uh, you know, people do suffer from gender dysphoria.

00:38:34.000 That's a real, that's a real, that's a real thing.

00:38:37.000 And everybody agrees those people exist.

00:38:39.000 Yes.

00:38:40.000 So why do you keep saying trans people don't exist?

00:38:42.000 Because you're saying that gender dysphoria exists.

00:38:47.000 It's a real thing.

00:38:48.000 But you're saying that the actual outcome, what they're looking to do to actually treat their gender dysphoria, it's not a real thing.

00:38:55.000 Well, no, no, no.

00:38:57.000 Trans people exist.

00:38:59.000 And I've met Trump-supporting trans women and hackers and leftists and right-wingers. 0.56

00:39:06.000 Of course they exist.

00:39:07.000 Of course gender dysphoria is real. 0.86

00:39:08.000 They're trans women. 1.00

00:39:09.000 They have preferred pronouns.

00:39:11.000 And whether or not you compel someone to use those words has nothing to do with saying they exist or not.

00:39:18.000 If you refuse to use anyone's pronouns or just refuse to even call them by their name, I mean, I don't just I mean, I don't know what to say to you.

00:39:25.000 I mean, if I called you Florbo, would that be denying your existence?

00:39:28.000 If you called me Florbo?

00:39:30.000 Yeah, if I used a pronoun for you that wasn't your preferred pronoun, am I denying your existence?

00:39:34.000 I mean, personally, it wouldn't bother me, but that's just me.

00:39:36.000 But am I denying your existence?

00:39:38.000 Are you denying my existence?

00:39:39.000 I mean, people could argue it's disrespectful, for sure.

00:39:42.000 But am I denying your existence?

00:39:44.000 Well, because trans people don't acknowledge that their birth name or given name is what they, you know, that's not them. 1.00

00:39:52.000 I don't know what to say.

00:39:55.000 I mean, you're saying they're claiming trans people don't exist.

00:39:59.000 That's like a buzz phrase with no meaning.

00:40:01.000 You've conveyed no idea to anyone.

00:40:03.000 What are you talking about?

00:40:04.000 What idea are you trying to convey when you say conservatives say trans people don't exist?

00:40:08.000 What is that supposed to mean?

00:40:09.000 What was that supposed to mean?

00:40:13.000 Let's go back to the original thing that you were talking about.

00:40:15.000 Twitter's policy.

00:40:16.000 And you're saying it's purposefully biased?

00:40:18.000 I didn't say purposefully.

00:40:20.000 No moral statement.

00:40:21.000 It is a rule set that the left agrees to, the right doesn't, and therefore is biased against the conservative worldview.

00:40:26.000 Okay, and if Twitter did not have that policy, then it would be biased against trans people.

00:40:30.000 No, it wouldn't.

00:40:31.000 Well, no, it would be unbiased, right?

00:40:32.000 If Twitter had a policy which said... If Twitter had no policy on what pronouns you could use for someone, that would not be biased.

00:40:38.000 That would just be, like, the lack of a policy altogether.

00:40:40.000 Yeah, the left would still be... Lack of policy could be biased.

00:40:43.000 No, no, no, no.

00:40:44.000 The inversion would be Twitter saying, you are not allowed to use preferred pronouns, right?

00:40:50.000 So once... The conservatives don't want to refer to trans women by she, her, right?

00:40:55.000 Okay, they could just not refer to trans women that way.

00:40:58.000 So, but you'll get banned on Twitter.

00:41:01.000 You do not have to go after a trans person.

00:41:03.000 Here's my point.

00:41:04.000 You can exist on Twitter without attacking a trans person.

00:41:08.000 This is a left wing framing that it's attacking someone to not use the pronouns that affirm this idea that they're something that they're not.

00:41:15.000 The point is the rules.

00:41:16.000 If I started calling you she, for example, that would be completely incorrect because I'm not a woman.

00:41:21.000 I'm a man.

00:41:22.000 I've been a man my whole life.

00:41:23.000 And even if I decided to identify as a woman, I still would not become a woman.

00:41:26.000 But if you did, though, I would have the common respect to refer to you by your gender identity.

00:41:32.000 So I absolutely believe that you are coming at this from a place of respect, but I don't think it's respectful to indulge something that's not true.

00:41:41.000 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:41:42.000 We're deviating way too far.

00:41:43.000 The point is, Twitter's rules.

00:41:46.000 Overtly biased.

00:41:47.000 If Twitter removed the rule, there would be no bias because there's no rule.

00:41:52.000 If Twitter created a rule that said trans people are not allowed to use preferred pronouns, that would be biased in favor of conservatives.

00:41:59.000 If Twitter also made a rule that said that, you know, you can now use the n-word, who do you think that affects?

00:42:05.000 Who's that biased against?

00:42:06.000 That's biased against people who—black people. 0.72

00:42:09.000 Yes. 0.95

00:42:09.000 Right. 0.95

00:42:10.000 But is there a policy saying you're a—like, the issue— Correct him.

00:42:10.000 Yes.

00:42:15.000 The issue is, Twitter—negative rights, positive rights, etc., etc.— Twitter is saying, here's a list of things you can't do, and it tends to be things conservatives do, right?

00:42:26.000 OK.

00:42:26.000 I'm sorry that conservatives do things that tend to disrespect people.

00:42:29.000 I'm not making a moral judgment.

00:42:32.000 If you want to say they're disrespecting people, I don't care.

00:42:34.000 I'm simply saying Twitter's rule set favors the leftist approach.

00:42:38.000 And I disagree.

00:42:39.000 But that's impossible.

00:42:41.000 I'm not making an opinion statement.

00:42:43.000 I'm making a fact statement.

00:42:44.000 I just don't agree.

00:42:45.000 I mean, we know from just how these social media platforms, we could take Twitter specifically, how they work.

00:42:50.000 The algorithm tends to platform content on the right all the time.

00:42:57.000 Well, they platform everybody all the time.

00:42:58.000 No, no, no.

00:42:59.000 They recommend right-wing content more often than not.

00:43:02.000 That's 100% true.

00:43:03.000 Who does?

00:43:04.000 Any social media platform.

00:43:06.000 Facebook, Twitter.

00:43:12.000 You are wrong.

00:43:13.000 Uh, let me, let me try.

00:43:14.000 YouTube's another one.

00:43:15.000 Yeah.

00:43:16.000 Uh, let me, let me try and pull up the, uh, see if I can find the article.

00:43:20.000 You know, one of the challenges with doing these, like we sit down and we talk about is we're always trying to, you know, figure out where we saw something and all that stuff.

00:43:28.000 So let me see if I can, uh, find this.

00:43:30.000 Oh, does it want me to buy this?

00:43:33.000 Muckrack is trying to sell me the article.

00:43:35.000 Uh, let me see if I can try and find this article.

00:43:38.000 It's by a researcher named Mark Ledwich.

00:43:42.000 Twitter algorithms bias toward right-wing content.

00:43:44.000 Says who? 0.65

00:43:45.000 Twitter's own research.

00:43:46.000 And what did they say and why did they say it?

00:43:48.000 Twitter is publicly sharing research findings today, this is from Protocol, that show that the platform's algorithms amplify tweets from right-wing politicians and content from right-leaning news outlets more than people and content from the political left.

00:44:03.000 There you go.

00:44:05.000 I'm trying to pull up this Mark Ledwich thing.

00:44:08.000 So I see this from the Washington Post.

00:44:10.000 October 22, 2021, Twitter algorithms amplify conservative content more than that of the political left, researchers find.

00:44:16.000 Who are the researchers?

00:44:17.000 An internal evaluation of Twitter's recommendation algorithms concluded that they amplify right-leaning political content more than left-leaning content, company researchers announced Thursday, undercutting allegations by many conservatives who contend they are being censored on the platform.

00:44:29.000 Now that statement is just confusing and factually incorrect.

00:44:32.000 Twitter can promote conservatives, but doesn't mean conservatives.

00:44:34.000 You know who should get to the bottom of this?

00:44:35.000 Elon Musk.

00:44:36.000 Why don't you ask him to find out more information about this study?

00:44:39.000 There you go.

00:44:39.000 Agreed.

00:44:40.000 If conservatives are complaining about being censored, the fact that Twitter promotes some conservatives doesn't mean conservatives aren't being censored.

00:44:45.000 The fact that Twitter would promote more conservatives doesn't mean some conservatives aren't being censored.

00:44:49.000 So, Washington Post point.

00:44:52.000 But we'd have to The research in months of the making part of Twitter's

00:44:57.000 promise to evaluate the underpinnings blah blah blah I'm trying to see what the meat of what they're actually

00:45:01.000 saying is and it doesn't seem to be in the article They said they analyzed millions of 2020 tweets by elected

00:45:06.000 officials in seven countries. Canada, France, Germany Oh, okay. So it's not an American thing as well as post

00:45:11.000 that. Oh, come on All right, I can debunk this in two seconds for you. Okay,

00:45:15.000 go ahead All right from the New York Times what happens to america's

00:45:22.000 political center of gravity As you can see, the right-leaning political parties in Europe are to the left of the Republican Party.

00:45:30.000 So when you say Twitter is amplifying right-wing content, it's like, okay, okay, in America, yes or no?

00:45:35.000 The answer is no.

00:45:36.000 Because the parties that were getting amplified, European parties, are to the left of the Republican Party.

00:45:42.000 So it's to the right of you, that's a fair point.

00:45:44.000 It's to the left of the American conservative.

00:45:46.000 Well, that's a major statement that you have to probably check with the researchers who put together this study.

00:45:53.000 Well, I'm showing you right here.

00:45:54.000 Here's the New York Times.

00:45:56.000 You specifically yourself, I mean, have, what, 1.2 million Twitter followers, right?

00:46:01.000 Yeah, and what's my political affiliation?

00:46:03.000 Oh, your political affiliation, right?

00:46:04.000 We should talk about that, right?

00:46:05.000 Yeah, I mean, I don't think you are exactly what you claim you are.

00:46:09.000 What am I?

00:46:10.000 You know, I would say you're pretty much conservative.

00:46:13.000 What makes me conservative?

00:46:14.000 What makes you a liberal?

00:46:17.000 Well, traditional liberals in this country, specifically social liberal, is where I've always been.

00:46:22.000 Voted for Obama in 2008.

00:46:23.000 A lot of people voted for Obama in 2008 and then moved over to Trump.

00:46:27.000 We've established that.

00:46:28.000 I voted for Trump in 2020.

00:46:28.000 Yeah, there you go.

00:46:29.000 Right.

00:46:30.000 So traditional liberals— All those liberals who voted for Trump.

00:46:33.000 Nine million in this country.

00:46:34.000 That's right.

00:46:35.000 I wouldn't consider them liberal.

00:46:36.000 And substantially more.

00:46:38.000 Donald Trump is— I'm talking about Democrats, not liberals.

00:46:40.000 No, they're liberal.

00:46:41.000 Donald Trump is a New York liberal.

00:46:44.000 Like, Donald Trump unfurled an LGBT flag on the RNC stage and got Republicans to clap for it.

00:46:51.000 So I'm pro-choice.

00:46:51.000 Oh, sure.

00:46:51.000 OK.

00:46:54.000 Well, we could talk about that.

00:46:55.000 Yeah, I'm pro-progressive tax.

00:46:57.000 I'm pro-Green New Deal. 0.77

00:46:59.000 Are you?

00:47:00.000 Oh, yes.

00:47:01.000 Really?

00:47:01.000 Absolutely.

00:47:02.000 I don't think you watch the show.

00:47:02.000 Really?

00:47:03.000 No, I have watched the show.

00:47:04.000 I've seen you completely come out and get really mad at Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for some of the things in the Green New Deal. 1.00

00:47:10.000 Do you mean like free college for black people?

00:47:13.000 What?

00:47:14.000 Did you read the Green New Deal?

00:47:15.000 No, I did, but that's what bothers you?

00:47:18.000 What bothers me is that when I advocate for environmental policy, having worked for several environmental nonprofits— And also, I don't think the policy says, free college for black people.

00:47:27.000 No, no, no.

00:47:28.000 It's free college, it's free healthcare for marginalized and oppressed communities.

00:47:33.000 What does that have to do with wind turbines?

00:47:35.000 What are you talking about?

00:47:36.000 It has everything to do with the environmental situation we're going to be in.

00:47:39.000 No, that's race policy.

00:47:40.000 That's identitarianism.

00:47:41.000 No, it's not.

00:47:42.000 What do you think happens when climate change affects the United States of America?

00:47:46.000 Who do you think is going to be the most affected by it?

00:47:48.000 Who's not going to be able, like Ben Shapiro said, who's not going to be able to just get up, sell their house that's sailing out to the sea and going underwater, like Ben Shapiro said?

00:47:58.000 Who's going to be able to easily Get themselves out of a situation that sees their neighborhood getting flooded.

00:48:05.000 They're going to lose what they currently have.

00:48:09.000 It's not going to be the wealthy.

00:48:10.000 It's not going to be people who are in a comfortable situation who can just get up and move.

00:48:14.000 It's going to be people who don't have means.

00:48:17.000 So when we lift people out of poverty, we'll be able to better address climate change issues when they arise.

00:48:24.000 Just to go back real quick, I did find the data showing that YouTube overwhelmingly sends content to the left and not the right.

00:48:31.000 You have to send this to me because this goes against every piece of research I've ever read about YouTube.

00:48:37.000 I will say outright, one of the challenges with any kind of political debate is that you're going to, everyone's going to find their sources, you know what I mean?

00:48:44.000 Well, where's your source from?

00:48:45.000 This is firstmonday.org.

00:48:46.000 This is an academic named Mark Ledwich who worked with a series of other academics.

00:48:50.000 They've mapped out, look, they got me as anti-SJW here with Sargon of Akkad. 0.61

00:48:54.000 And what they did was they grouped everything by a whole bunch of different channels.

00:48:59.000 There's like white identitarian, there's partisan right, there's conspiracy, there's social justice, there's center-left, mainstream media.

00:49:04.000 And then they created parents for what typically socially falls into a left or right category.

00:49:10.000 And then they created this recommendation trend map showing you partisan left content typically recommends partisan left content.

00:49:20.000 Center content typically recommends partisan, I'm sorry, typically recommends center content.

00:49:25.000 However, when we're talking about who's getting recommended the most, From the center, you're more likely, twice or three times as likely, to get partisan left content than partisan right content.

00:49:36.000 What do they consider left-wing content?

00:49:39.000 Socialists, social justice, partisan left.

00:49:42.000 What are we talking about here, though?

00:49:44.000 Because there's right-wingers and there's all sorts of people who view NBC and CNN and other corporate media as left.

00:49:49.000 No, that says center-left mainstream media.

00:49:51.000 Okay, well that's center-left mainstream media.

00:49:53.000 Okay.

00:49:54.000 Center slash left mainstream.

00:49:56.000 Oh, it's its own category is what you're saying.

00:49:58.000 So they mean like your TV networks, the news they report, like overwhelmingly anti-Trump, for instance, comedy specials and things like that.

00:50:08.000 If you go on YouTube and you watch Jimmy Kimmel, you are the most likely to just see more Jimmy Kimmel.

00:50:14.000 But when it comes to the political direction information flows, as you can see from Mark Lightwich's research, and there's a couple other researchers, sorry if I'm not reading their names, I mean it looks like three or four to one, you're more likely to get partisan left-wing content than right-wing content.

00:50:29.000 Well, that goes against every research effort.

00:50:31.000 Here's one for example from— Now check this out, check this out.

00:50:33.000 Also, if you are watching partisan right-wing content, you are more likely to be recommended center or mainstream content than if you were on the left for the same number.

00:50:43.000 It seems somewhat comparable, but considering the partisan left receives 99.5 million daily impressions to the partisan right 68.6, that's a disproportionate amount of recommendations in favor of partisan left.

00:50:55.000 Alright, well I need to see that study in front of me because I could easily just pull up another one that just says, you know, more than 330,000 videos and nearly 350 YouTube channels were analyzed and manually classified, labeled as either media or what we think of as factual news, alt-right, intellectual dark web, or alt-right.

00:51:12.000 And then it found that YouTube's algorithm funnels people to alt-right videos.

00:51:17.000 But by how much?

00:51:18.000 I mean, it does.

00:51:19.000 That's a fact statement.

00:51:20.000 It absolutely does.

00:51:22.000 Now, Twitter diminished alt-right channels and banned most of them.

00:51:26.000 They cut them all off from the recommendation algorithm, so the time period in which YouTube did that study would be important.

00:51:33.000 But also, yeah, absolutely, YouTube recommends everything.

00:51:36.000 YouTube does recommend alt-right content for sure.

00:51:38.000 They banned a lot of it.

00:51:40.000 The issue is, and in large amounts, like, if a regular person goes on YouTube and watches Jimmy Kimmel, are they more likely to fall into a left or right wing rabbit hole?

00:51:51.000 The data shows the left.

00:51:53.000 All right.

00:51:54.000 Yeah.

00:51:54.000 I mean, that's what is true.

00:51:56.000 But I mean, look, look, look.

00:51:57.000 But I mean, how often is someone who's watching Jimmy Kimmel going and looking for more political videos?

00:52:02.000 I'm assuming they're going to be looking for entertainment content.

00:52:04.000 Which is why the overwhelming majority.

00:52:04.000 Right.

00:52:06.000 So if you look at the left on this chart, for those that are watching, can you pull it up?

00:52:11.000 So if you look on the left, you can see there's a purple bar.

00:52:13.000 On the right is another purple bar.

00:52:15.000 The purple going straight across, that represents the overwhelming majority of people who watch center or left mainstream media will only be recommended center or left mainstream media.

00:52:25.000 When you look on the left, you see this line going down.

00:52:28.000 That represents how many people from a mainstream media video will go to a partisan left video.

00:52:34.000 As you can see, the line representing the data is substantially larger going to the left than the right.

00:52:40.000 When you look at from a partisan right-wing video to the center, the line is comparable from the partisan left to the center, meaning partisan right gets two-thirds, gets 68% of what the left gets in terms of views, but has an equal amount of people being recommended away from partisan right-wing content, showing the left is favored, whether inadvertently or on purpose, on YouTube.

00:53:05.000 So we can talk about Twitter, we can talk about other stuff.

00:53:07.000 And again, I will stress to everybody who's watching or listening, We've had conversations.

00:53:11.000 We had Olad Eliyahu on, and he pulled up Pew, which said most people are pro-choice, and then he pulled up Gallup, which said most people want restrictions on abortion.

00:53:20.000 You're always going to find some data, and it's hard to know what's true, but everybody has their sources.

00:53:24.000 Well, and there is an issue I just found about this specific study that you're talking about.

00:53:29.000 This is the one with Mark Ledwich, right?

00:53:32.000 Basically, to examine what YouTube's algorithm recommends to viewers, Ledwich and Zaitsev went through those channels' videos and scraped each one's recommendation data, so they were able to see what YouTube offered in the Up Next box to people watching each video.

00:53:50.000 However, Ledwich and Zaitsev crucially did this while not logged into a YouTube account because YouTube had no personalization data to go off of.

00:54:00.000 Each box of up next recommendations that served Ledwich and Zaitsev was a generalized blank slate collection of videos.

00:54:07.000 The algorithm is literally incapable of introducing an anonymous logged out user to increasingly radical content.

00:54:14.000 This is from Tubefilter.

00:54:16.000 How many of YouTube's viewers are logged in and have accounts?

00:54:19.000 Oh, we should check that out too.

00:54:20.000 So the issue is, this research I'm talking about has nothing to do with that.

00:54:23.000 I mean, it's literally the average person.

00:54:25.000 Will they be fed left-wing or right-wing content?

00:54:27.000 And that doesn't disprove anything I said.

00:54:29.000 So basically... Nor does it provide any evidence in the contrary.

00:54:32.000 I mean, it looks like, if you're logged in, based on user data and recommendation data, then it does seem like they funnel people to more right-wing content based on other studies.

00:54:43.000 What's your source, though?

00:54:44.000 The study I brought before.

00:54:45.000 What study?

00:54:45.000 I mentioned it before.

00:54:47.000 You know, one of the issues, too, is—we're going to run into this, and I don't think we'll have an answer for this—is who's doing the study.

00:54:54.000 There was a study that will say something not true about me or not true about you if they're trying to get whatever outcome they want.

00:55:04.000 This is the big challenge with trying to figure out data in this regards.

00:55:07.000 There was a study that came out that claimed I was like ANCAP far-right or something, which is just like, I don't even know how they come up with that.

00:55:15.000 I mean, come on, if someone wants to accuse me of being a conservative based on modern tribalism, we'll have an argument.

00:55:21.000 And cap right wing.

00:55:22.000 I was just like, so I can wait.

00:55:24.000 Hold on.

00:55:25.000 I'm just came out because I looked up the I looked up the author of the study, Mark Ledwich.

00:55:28.000 Yeah.

00:55:29.000 I mean, he he has a looks like he's a QAnon defender.

00:55:35.000 I don't I don't I mean, it seems like I mean, I wouldn't trust someone who believes in a conspiracy theory like QAnon, honestly.

00:55:40.000 What about Russiagate?

00:55:42.000 Yeah, what about Russiagate?

00:55:43.000 What does Russiagate have to do with it?

00:55:44.000 What does QAnon have to do with what we're talking about?

00:55:46.000 The author of the study you're citing seems to be a QAnon believer.

00:55:49.000 And what about the studies you want to reference?

00:55:53.000 If I reference the study that... Reference the study, give me the name, we'll pull up their QAnon BS, come on.

00:55:58.000 What are you talking about?

00:55:59.000 I mean... You have the guy's name! 1.00

00:56:00.000 QAnon is not just like posting something stupid. 0.99

00:56:02.000 QAnon is a whole belief set. 0.99

00:56:03.000 People's whole worldviews are based on this. 1.00

00:56:06.000 And want me to pull up their Twitter accounts and find the stupid things they've posted 0.99

00:56:10.000 This is it look on is not just like posting something stupid Q9 is a whole belief set people's whole 0.99

00:56:16.000 Worldviews are what is what is what do he defend? What he defend? 0.98

00:56:19.000 Let's bring it up right now. I'll bring up the whole long medium blog vote but bug post here

00:56:24.000 Let's see we got In the past few months, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube have been waging a war against QAnon, a levianth of a conspiracy theory.

00:56:37.000 that explains, among other things, that there's a deep state cabal of Jewish Satanist globalist democratic elites in government, business, and the media secretly controlling the world and running a global style sex trafficking ring. 0.79

00:56:50.000 Most recently, QAnon fans have claimed that COVID-19 is a hoax and that the U.S.

00:56:54.000 election was rigged against Donald Trump.

00:56:56.000 Social media giants recognizing these conspiracies were gobbling up a lot of engagement on their sites, took action in censoring them.

00:57:03.000 Uh, and then he goes on to- Where did he defend them?

00:57:05.000 So it doesn't sound like he believes in it at all.

00:57:06.000 He referred to it as a conspiracy theory.

00:57:08.000 And then he also said that- Well, yeah, QAnon- QAnon- No, no, no, no.

00:57:11.000 Come on, pull that up. 1.00

00:57:11.000 Where did he defend them? 1.00

00:57:12.000 Sure.

00:57:13.000 Where did he defend these guys?

00:57:17.000 I don't think he did.

00:57:19.000 Well, I'm looking through the- It's a long piece.

00:57:21.000 Yeah, he didn't.

00:57:21.000 He didn't defend them.

00:57:23.000 Mark Ledwich. Oh, here we go. Here we go. QAnon believers have already demonstrated their ability 1.00

00:57:27.000 to do this very well. We're talking about basically getting content out there and,

00:57:33.000 you know, getting their content out there, even when they're already banned from Facebook.

00:57:37.000 How is that defending? Hold on. When they hijack the hashtags, save the children,

00:57:42.000 save the children and save our children.

00:57:45.000 A fundraiser for anti-trafficking charity.

00:57:48.000 I mean, that's not what those two things were for.

00:57:50.000 So you're saying he's wrong?

00:57:51.000 He's wrong about those were not fundraisers for anti-trafficking.

00:57:54.000 Come on, come on, what?

00:57:55.000 You said he defended QAnon and then you read an academic piece where he talked about them, not in favor of them.

00:58:01.000 I just told you how he called the hashtag, the slogans they use online.

00:58:01.000 No, no, no.

00:58:07.000 He called them a fundraiser for anti-trafficking charity.

00:58:11.000 Didn't he say they hijacked Hashtag, which was for an anti-trafficking charity, like they stole it from them?

00:58:18.000 That's not how I'm reading this, but maybe it is.

00:58:20.000 Let me read it again.

00:58:24.000 Uh, it seems— He's not a defender of QAnon, dude.

00:58:27.000 He's not even political.

00:58:27.000 I've talked to this guy.

00:58:29.000 If you talked to him, then that means something you could give a more— That's why I talked to him, because when he did the research and pulled it up, I asked him for comments and to clarify, and that's what we talked about.

00:58:29.000 OK.

00:58:39.000 So, look, I will absolutely concede the issue is— Like I mentioned, we had Allad on.

00:58:46.000 He's a cool dude.

00:58:47.000 And he referenced, when it came to abortion, Pew Research data.

00:58:49.000 And I was like, well, that conflicts with what I read.

00:58:50.000 And I pull up Gallup.

00:58:51.000 And Gallup had a different phrasing, which was slightly different.

00:58:54.000 And then I was like, you know what, man?

00:58:56.000 The challenge is, everybody's fighting over politics and trying to win.

00:58:59.000 And you're going to get researchers who try and argue both sides.

00:59:01.000 So, like, if I show you a researcher who says, the left gets favored, you're going to be like, what?

00:59:07.000 I've read research saying otherwise.

00:59:07.000 How can that be?

00:59:09.000 And I'll say the exact same thing to you.

00:59:11.000 And then ultimately people are trying to figure out who's telling the truth, and it's damn near impossible.

00:59:15.000 So that's a reality.

00:59:17.000 Let's move on, let's move on.

00:59:18.000 I did mention a major flaw with that study, though.

00:59:20.000 I mean, that is a flaw to consider.

00:59:21.000 No, no, no, that was the point I was making, though.

00:59:23.000 Right.

00:59:24.000 So it's not the point you wanted it to be, but my point was, if a regular person goes on YouTube, are they going to be fed in which direction?

00:59:31.000 And the data shows the average person is fed to the left.

00:59:34.000 Now, if you're talking about logged in users, we need to know how many of the average person who watches YouTube is logged in.

00:59:40.000 It's actually relatively low.

00:59:42.000 There's, I think, you know, what, a billion views per month?

00:59:45.000 No, no, no, it's more than that.

00:59:46.000 It's like 100 billion or something like that.

00:59:47.000 Most people aren't logged in.

00:59:49.000 Most people don't log in.

00:59:50.000 So it's like when their cookies or whatever are in there, what are they being recommended?

00:59:55.000 If you want to argue that logging in changes things, for sure.

00:59:57.000 Let's do an analysis on that.

00:59:58.000 Maybe there's something to be seen.

00:59:59.000 But what percentage of people is that relative to the average person?

01:00:02.000 Let's move on from this.

01:00:03.000 Let's talk about abortion. 0.95

01:00:04.000 Sure.

01:00:05.000 Because we have the story in the news.

01:00:08.000 Well, we had the story.

01:00:10.000 We'll talk about Starbucks and then we'll go into my tweet so we can talk about the meat potatoes here.

01:00:15.000 Starbucks will cover travel expenses for employees, abortion and gender change treatments.

01:00:21.000 Starbucks has announced that they will be covering eligible travel costs for employees and their family members to get abortions or gender change treatments if the services are not available within 100 miles of where they live.

01:00:32.000 In 2018, Starbucks broadened its health insurance options for transgender partners to not only include gender assignment surgery, which had been covered since 2013, but also a host of

01:00:40.000 procedures that were previously considered cosmetic, such as breast reduction and augmentation surgery,

01:00:45.000 facial feminization, hair transplants, and more, the company said in a press release. So this is

01:00:49.000 not Tesla did the same thing. Actually, Tesla announced that if their employees need an abortion,

01:00:53.000 they'll cover the costs.

01:00:54.000 I think Amazon did this as well. But let's talk about this is the new story to kick off what I

01:01:01.000 actually want to get into. So forgive me for the ridiculous segue.

01:01:04.000 But I have a tweet here.

01:01:06.000 I said, what happens if a woman is on the way to get an abortion at eight months, but goes into labor in the lobby of the abortion clinic and accidentally delivers the baby before it could be terminated?

01:01:06.000 Sure.

01:01:14.000 So let me explain the backstory as to why I tweeted this.

01:01:17.000 I was having dinner with a friend in New York, and they said that they were pro-choice.

01:01:22.000 And I said, do you agree with abortion after viability?

01:01:28.000 Viability, of course, is defined as the point at which the baby can survive on its own.

01:01:32.000 He said, well, no, of course not.

01:01:34.000 Right.

01:01:35.000 But like in the first trimester, in the first several weeks, like.

01:01:38.000 It's the mother's decision.

01:01:39.000 The government doesn't have a right.

01:01:40.000 And I said, OK, OK.

01:01:41.000 But you say pro-choice, right?

01:01:43.000 So do you think that if, like, would you favor the Democrats' position?

01:01:48.000 And he assumed, yes, I would.

01:01:50.000 I think the Republicans want to ban it and all that stuff.

01:01:51.000 And I was like, yeah, they do.

01:01:53.000 But the Democrats tried passing a bill that would legalize in many states Termination of the baby up to nine months, up to the point of birth.

01:02:02.000 In Colorado they've already legalized it.

01:02:04.000 Kathy Tran in Virginia tried passing a bill.

01:02:08.000 Ralph Northam famously talked about it.

01:02:10.000 So the bill proposed by Democrats that was recently voted down does include a provision HR 3755 that says in section 3 paragraph I'm sorry section 4 paragraph 9 section 4 of course starts by saying a patient has a corresponding right to receive such services without any of the following limitations or requirements section 9 says a prohibition on abortion after fetal viability when in the good faith medical judgment of the treating health care provider continuation of the pregnancy would pose a risk to the pregnant patient's life or health

01:02:43.000 I showed this article to my friend and said, I have a question.

01:02:46.000 If the baby is viable, why kill it?

01:02:49.000 And he said, well, you wouldn't.

01:02:51.000 And I said, what would you do?

01:02:52.000 He's like, I don't know.

01:02:54.000 I said, okay.

01:02:55.000 And he was like, no, maybe they're saying just end the pregnancy.

01:02:57.000 And I was like, right, right, right.

01:02:58.000 But that's not, induced labor is not abortion, is it?

01:03:01.000 Maybe, maybe.

01:03:02.000 Is that what you're saying?

01:03:03.000 Because if you're saying induced labor or c-section is abortion, I think we're in agreement here.

01:03:08.000 You can end the pregnancy, but preserve the life of the baby.

01:03:11.000 The definition of abortion, according to Merriam-Webster, though, is the termination of a pregnancy following or directly relating to the death of the baby after the fact.

01:03:23.000 So I don't understand why they would have to create a law and try to pass it that would legalize abortion at all.

01:03:30.000 If a woman is eight months pregnant and the doctor says, if you continue this pregnancy, you will die, well, then they deliver the baby. 0.98

01:03:38.000 They have to remove the baby, right? 0.95

01:03:40.000 Why kill the baby in the process when you can just remove it?

01:03:43.000 Can you read that for me one more time?

01:03:45.000 So the important first section of Section 4A, General Rule, a health care provider has a statutory right under this Act

01:03:55.000 to provide abortion services, and may provide abortion services, and that provider's

01:03:59.000 patient has a corresponding right to receive such services without any of the following limitations or requirements.

01:04:06.000 Section 9 reads, a prohibition on abortion after fetal viability when, in the good faith medical judgment of the treating health care provider, continuation of the pregnancy would pose a risk to the pregnant patient's life or health.

01:04:19.000 Sure.

01:04:20.000 Okay.

01:04:21.000 In terms of, and it even says, uh, in the good faith, what was it?

01:04:24.000 The good faith, good faith medical decision of the doctor, right?

01:04:27.000 If you're carrying a baby up to eight months, I mean, you want that baby.

01:04:32.000 If it's, if it's a situation where it's the mother's health, um, then, I mean, they wanted the baby.

01:04:37.000 Well, so if, if the woman's at eight months pregnant, so I tweeted this, right. 1.00

01:04:41.000 And that's a bit different from what you tweeted.

01:04:44.000 A woman is an eight-month pregnant. 0.88

01:04:46.000 So I'm saying the reason I tweeted that is because if a woman is at eight months pregnant and she decides to terminate the pregnancy, aborting the baby and killing it. 0.98

01:04:54.000 You know, at eight months pregnant, you don't decide to terminate.

01:04:54.000 No, no.

01:04:56.000 You have to terminate because of medical reasons.

01:04:58.000 Something's going on.

01:04:59.000 So it's not a woman's decision.

01:05:00.000 What are you talking about?

01:05:01.000 Is it a woman's decision to terminate the pregnancy or not?

01:05:03.000 I mean, for her own health, I mean, it's between her and her doctor, right?

01:05:07.000 Are you saying it's not her decision?

01:05:09.000 I said if a woman decides to terminate her pregnancy, It's not like she's up and decided to go.

01:05:15.000 I didn't say she's up and decided, I'm saying if a woman decides to terminate her pregnancy.

01:05:18.000 Because of medical issues.

01:05:19.000 For any reason.

01:05:20.000 Yeah, okay.

01:05:21.000 I think you have to add, because of medical reasons.

01:05:23.000 No, no, because it's important to be very specific that people are not carrying a fetus for eight months and then just going, eh, I don't know, that's not happening.

01:05:34.000 There's already restrictions that say at that moment... You know about Gosnell, right?

01:05:41.000 Women were getting elective abortions at nine months. 0.97

01:05:45.000 We don't need to argue edge cases.

01:05:46.000 Let me go back to my point.

01:05:47.000 I want to make a point here because health of the mother... No, no, no.

01:05:51.000 Hold on.

01:05:51.000 I'm sorry, man.

01:05:52.000 I don't want to deviate from the point because I have a sincere question based on the law.

01:05:58.000 An abortion is legally defined as terminating a pregnancy of or relating to ending the baby's life.

01:06:05.000 The baby dies in the process, right?

01:06:09.000 Well, abortions also happen when the baby has already died. 1.00

01:06:14.000 There's been a miscarriage.

01:06:16.000 Of course, right.

01:06:17.000 I read you the law.

01:06:19.000 It would legalize a woman, for the reasons of health and good faith, to terminate the baby Up to nine months because of its viability.

01:06:29.000 Viability extends from 21 weeks until the point of birth.

01:06:33.000 So this bill would allow, it would actually legalize in many states, a baby just before birth being killed.

01:06:42.000 Like, aborted, right?

01:06:44.000 For medical reasons.

01:06:46.000 Well, what medical reason?

01:06:47.000 Well, if a mother's life is in danger or if there's something wrong with the fetus.

01:06:53.000 Well, so it's talking about the life of the patient's life.

01:06:55.000 We're not talking about the fetus.

01:06:56.000 Something's wrong with the fetus, I get it.

01:06:58.000 Like, the baby's already dead.

01:06:59.000 The baby's already dead.

01:07:00.000 Here's my question.

01:07:00.000 Right.

01:07:01.000 No one's carrying a baby for eight months and then has to go... That's not an argument.

01:07:04.000 If the doctor saying no one does a thing is not real because some people did and some people don't, and we're not talking about, we're talking about the law.

01:07:11.000 The law says If a woman is pregnant, and for any reason, do you believe that for any reason a woman has a right to terminate her pregnancy?

01:07:18.000 Me personally?

01:07:18.000 Yes.

01:07:18.000 I believe it's a woman's body.

01:07:19.000 Up to nine months?

01:07:21.000 Up to nine months, yeah.

01:07:21.000 What's that?

01:07:22.000 So you think a woman who's pregnant with a baby at nine months, she can say snip its neck? 1.00

01:07:27.000 I mean, we have laws that basically say they can't just up snip and snack. 0.59

01:07:31.000 I mean, that's a really weird way to put it.

01:07:33.000 Do you think, so do you know how they perform abortions on late term?

01:07:36.000 Where they send the forceps in and cut the spinal column?

01:07:39.000 You think that's okay for a baby who is 8 months and 2 weeks in a woman's womb? 1.00

01:07:45.000 But they're not doing, no one is just electively doing that.

01:07:49.000 You just said you're not going to talk about edge cases and then you're going around talking about edge cases.

01:07:53.000 When you said no one does that, I'm going to give you an example of it happening.

01:07:57.000 I'm not trying to argue that you are.

01:07:59.000 So the issue is it does happen.

01:08:01.000 Should it be legal?

01:08:02.000 You said yes, right?

01:08:03.000 Here's my question.

01:08:04.000 Let me ask you the question and please.

01:08:07.000 If the woman is told by a doctor, if you continue with the pregnancy, you will die.

01:08:11.000 Right. 1.00

01:08:12.000 Should they kill the baby? 1.00

01:08:14.000 At eight months? 0.96

01:08:15.000 If the mother is told that she will die, and there's no way at eight months, we're talking eight months, this woman wants the baby, they'll do whatever they can to save the baby.

01:08:15.000 Yes.

01:08:26.000 That's not what the law says.

01:08:27.000 The law allows for the termination of the baby.

01:08:29.000 It says the doctors, you know, and the doctor... I'm not arguing the woman's not sick.

01:08:35.000 If a woman is sick at 8 months, the baby is viable, it says, after fetal viability.

01:08:40.000 And the doctor says if you continue with the pregnancy, your health is at risk.

01:08:44.000 Do you believe it should be legal at that point to kill the baby?

01:08:48.000 But that's not happening.

01:08:50.000 You're talking about- Yes or no.

01:08:51.000 I'm not asking.

01:08:52.000 I'm saying yes or no.

01:08:53.000 Do you think it should be legal?

01:08:54.000 They're trying to legalize it.

01:08:55.000 It doesn't matter if it's happening.

01:08:56.000 They're trying to legalize it.

01:08:57.000 Yes or no.

01:08:57.000 They're trying to legalize the fact that women at eight months pregnant could find out something is horribly wrong with the fetus.

01:09:04.000 Where it will die as soon as it's born, be in pain, have tragic- Can you answer the question or not?

01:09:09.000 I'm answering the question to you right now.

01:09:10.000 Because you're saying something I agree with you on and no one disagrees with you on.

01:09:10.000 No, no, no, no.

01:09:14.000 Everyone wants to preserve the health of the mother.

01:09:17.000 Why kill the baby in the process?

01:09:17.000 Sure.

01:09:18.000 They're not killing the baby in the process.

01:09:19.000 Why legalize the killing of the baby in the process? 0.98

01:09:21.000 They're not legalizing it.

01:09:22.000 Yes they are.

01:09:23.000 Read the law.

01:09:24.000 I read it to you how many times?

01:09:26.000 After fetal viability, the baby can survive on its own.

01:09:29.000 They can perform an abortion if the mother's health is at risk.

01:09:32.000 Why kill the baby?

01:09:34.000 Why not include in that all efforts must be made to save the baby's life?

01:09:38.000 It's right there when it says the exact wording.

01:09:41.000 I don't have it in front of me because I have my phone.

01:09:43.000 The good faith efforts of the doctor.

01:09:43.000 What the doctor said.

01:09:46.000 For the patient, not the baby.

01:09:49.000 Abortion is the termination of the baby.

01:09:52.000 If it wasn't about legalizing the killing of the baby, they would say perform a c-section or induce labor.

01:09:57.000 What this is right here, it says they cannot prohibit abortion.

01:10:01.000 Late-term abortion is a practice with legal definitions where the baby is killed, its limbs are removed, and it's sucked out.

01:10:08.000 If the mother, if the baby is viable, why not just induce labor or perform a c-section?

01:10:14.000 In fact, when Hassan quoted my tweet, that's what his followers said.

01:10:18.000 Apparently, they disagree with you.

01:10:19.000 I mean, if they can do that, they would do that at eight months for sure.

01:10:22.000 Then why legalize?

01:10:26.000 Why, I just explained to you because it needs to happen sometimes.

01:10:30.000 For the health of the mother or for the child. 0.93

01:10:34.000 Killing the baby. 0.99

01:10:35.000 Yes. 1.00

01:10:36.000 It needs to happen.

01:10:37.000 If there's something terribly, horribly wrong with a child where it's going to grow up and immediately die or be in horrible pain for hours before dying anyway.

01:10:45.000 Would you agree with a provision added to this bill saying all efforts must be made to preserve the life of any baby after viability?

01:10:52.000 I mean, you're asking for exactly what's there.

01:10:54.000 But if that makes you happy, then I mean, sure, why not?

01:10:57.000 But that's not what's there.

01:10:59.000 So we agree.

01:11:00.000 We completely agree, 100%.

01:11:02.000 I mean, except for you saying a woman should decide on late-term abortion.

01:11:04.000 I don't agree with that.

01:11:05.000 Okay.

01:11:06.000 But so we agree this bill should have an extended provision to protect the life of the child.

01:11:10.000 I mean, I think it's there.

01:11:11.000 I think it's there.

01:11:12.000 I think it says it right there.

01:11:12.000 That's my opinion.

01:11:14.000 Which part do you think says it must preserve the life of the baby?

01:11:16.000 We've already went over this a hundred times.

01:11:18.000 You think a doctor is not looking out for both the mother and the child?

01:11:22.000 They are.

01:11:23.000 I think oftentimes the doctor's looking out.

01:11:26.000 They're not really looking out for either, I think.

01:11:28.000 In many cases, they're trying to make money.

01:11:32.000 I have numbers for you.

01:11:33.000 I have numbers for you.

01:11:34.000 Partial birth abortionist John McMahon says the primary reason given for those requesting a late-term abortion is depression.

01:11:39.000 The Guttmacher Institute, which is a pro-choice think tank, said that they surveyed women obtaining late-term abortions.

01:11:44.000 They found that only about 1% of second and third trimester abortions are performed for fetal anomalies.

01:11:51.000 Which is another way of saying, like, eugenics. 1.00

01:11:52.000 There's a disability, so we kill them. 1.00

01:11:54.000 One-third of the women said that they misjudged how far along they were. 0.99

01:11:57.000 One-fourth said they found it hard to arrange an earlier abortion.

01:12:01.000 Fourteen percent that they were afraid to tell their parents or their partner.

01:12:04.000 And the rest gave reasons, such as taking their time to decide or waiting for a change in their relationship status.

01:12:08.000 I will also add, the CDC defines abortion as a termination of a pregnancy that does not result in live birth.

01:12:15.000 So my question is, why do the Democrats try to legalize the killing of a viable baby without any protections?

01:12:21.000 I mean, I don't know what you're saying.

01:12:22.000 I mean, I tell you right there, it says right there exactly what- But you're in favor of late-term abortion.

01:12:27.000 I think it's up to a mother, a woman, and her doctor.

01:12:30.000 So I actually agree with the initial Roe v. Wade.

01:12:34.000 I guess, I mean, have you read Roe v. Wade?

01:12:37.000 Of course, yeah.

01:12:38.000 So you know about the limitations on- In the trimester, yeah.

01:12:40.000 So you know about the limitations?

01:12:41.000 Of course, yes.

01:12:42.000 So do you agree with that?

01:12:43.000 What do you mean?

01:12:44.000 That's the law of the land.

01:12:45.000 For now.

01:12:47.000 So you just told me that you think a woman should be able to choose to terminate the baby at 9 months. 0.81

01:12:51.000 No, I said the decision of what happens to a pregnant woman is up to her and her doctor.

01:12:57.000 That's all I'm telling you.

01:12:58.000 Let me ask you a question.

01:12:59.000 If there was a baby on a table and someone grabbed a pair of bolt cutters and put it to its neck, would you stop them?

01:13:06.000 You're talking about a live person, right?

01:13:08.000 I'm talking about a baby just born, right on the spot.

01:13:11.000 That's a person.

01:13:12.000 What if the baby was coming out of the woman and then they snip it's neck? 1.00

01:13:16.000 But no one's doing that.

01:13:17.000 Gosnell did it.

01:13:19.000 Don't give me an absolute and then tell me not to make an edge point.

01:13:22.000 Don't say no one did it when someone did it.

01:13:25.000 The point is, I'm asking you moral questions on where your position is so I can understand why you would support these positions because I don't understand.

01:13:33.000 So, if the baby was delivered, you're saying it can't be killed.

01:13:37.000 Now do you understand my tweet? 0.86

01:13:39.000 If the woman was intending to abort the baby at 8 months and went into an early labor while she was going to the abortion clinic and the baby was born right there in the lobby, could she not kill it now?

01:13:52.000 Well, if she had the baby as she was going to get her eight month abortion, there's something horribly wrong with that baby.

01:13:58.000 I hope it's not in pain because they were, she was going to... Can you answer the question?

01:14:01.000 I just, I'm talking about it right now.

01:14:03.000 I said, can, okay.

01:14:05.000 Oh, can she, if the baby is born?

01:14:07.000 No, cause that's a person.

01:14:08.000 So what if, so now let's move backwards.

01:14:11.000 The baby is a person the moment it's born, right?

01:14:13.000 Is that what you're saying?

01:14:15.000 Yes.

01:14:16.000 What if the baby is halfway out?

01:14:18.000 Halfway out.

01:14:19.000 Like, so do you know they do late-term abortions at the point of birth?

01:14:23.000 Partial birth abortions.

01:14:24.000 The baby is coming out and they kill it as it comes out. 0.99

01:14:28.000 Okay? 0.98

01:14:29.000 That's literally what they do.

01:14:31.000 Bro, I believe women have the right to choose within the first trimester and partly into

01:14:37.000 the second trimester because the government can't mandate someone else give their body

01:14:41.000 to someone else.

01:14:43.000 The challenge I have as a traditional liberal and social liberal is when you start introducing the rights of secondary persons to the equation like Roe v. Wade actually stated. 0.82

01:14:52.000 The privacy rights of the baby enter at the point of viability, these questions are difficult to answer.

01:14:58.000 So my position has always been safe, legal, rare, first trimester discretion of the woman. 0.67

01:15:02.000 Even though I really don't like the idea of abortion as contraception.

01:15:06.000 So you like where it is right now?

01:15:08.000 That's a hard thing to say considering all the states have different laws.

01:15:12.000 No, I think it's a very easy thing to say because you said safe, legal, and rare, right?

01:15:16.000 Which states?

01:15:18.000 I don't like where it's at because Colorado legalized nine-month partial birth abortion.

01:15:22.000 Kathy Tran in Virginia tried doing the same.

01:15:24.000 I don't know where they went on that.

01:15:26.000 And Ralph Northam actually said the baby would be delivered and then they would decide.

01:15:29.000 We're having a discussion.

01:15:30.000 That's not what he said.

01:15:31.000 He said they would have a discussion.

01:15:33.000 He was talking about, there's context right before, where he said that if there was something horribly wrong with the baby, like the baby's born in a vegetative state and is not going to live a life that, you know, it's not going to live.

01:15:45.000 I didn't say that.

01:15:46.000 He didn't say that.

01:15:47.000 But you didn't say that he did either.

01:15:49.000 So, for one, we've played the video multiple times.

01:15:51.000 What he said was, this typically, so he's asked by the presenter, Kathy Tran presented a bill that would legalize abortion up to the point of birth.

01:15:59.000 He said typically this happens in instances of severe disability or deformity.

01:16:04.000 And I will tell you what would happen.

01:16:05.000 The baby would be delivered.

01:16:07.000 It would be resuscitated if that's what they decided.

01:16:09.000 It would be made comfortable.

01:16:11.000 And then a discussion would happen.

01:16:13.000 So my issue there is, I disagree, I mean, if a baby is alive, I think every effort must be made to try and save its life.

01:16:21.000 I think if a homeless person is bleeding and they fall onto the stairs of a hospital, the hospital absolutely must save that person's life.

01:16:28.000 The same thing as a baby that's born with deformities or otherwise. 0.90

01:16:31.000 I don't think you can see a person and be like, they're dying, we should kill them, whether it's a baby or otherwise. 0.59

01:16:35.000 So the issue here is, I'm pro-choice.

01:16:38.000 What was your feelings on the Terri Schiavo case?

01:16:43.000 I don't have strong opinions on that one.

01:16:44.000 I mean, for one... You just don't care?

01:16:48.000 I didn't say I don't care.

01:16:50.000 It's a difficult moral question I don't have the answers to.

01:16:54.000 Who do you more lean towards there?

01:16:56.000 I'd probably say we would lean towards preserving the life of Terri Schiavo.

01:17:00.000 Even though that's not what she wanted?

01:17:03.000 Well, if that was the case, yeah, I don't know enough about it.

01:17:05.000 If she signed a do not resuscitate, I'd say... No, she literally, she told her husband that she did not want to be left in a vegetative state.

01:17:10.000 Then that's her right with signing a DNR, absolutely.

01:17:13.000 This was according to her husband and there's no formal paperwork and her parents said we will take care of her.

01:17:17.000 Then you can't do it.

01:17:18.000 If she had a DNR, I respect the DNR.

01:17:20.000 It's her life, it's her choice.

01:17:22.000 Without a legal do not resuscitate, then you have to defer the next if can.

01:17:26.000 As for abortions... The husband would be that. 0.96

01:17:29.000 Well, right.

01:17:30.000 I mean, I'm not the boss of people.

01:17:31.000 I'm not the king.

01:17:32.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, because we just, we just, the, the, the, the thing

01:17:32.000 I'm not the lord.

01:17:36.000 that Shamish just said and then you agreed with was that, um, if she is in a vegetative

01:17:42.000 state and the husband says that I was told by her that that's it.

01:17:48.000 And then he brought up how there's no proof of that.

01:17:50.000 The parents wanted her alive.

01:17:52.000 They said they would take care of her.

01:17:53.000 They're not the next of kin though.

01:17:54.000 The husband is, the husband has the ultimate decision of her, of her care.

01:17:58.000 Right.

01:17:58.000 Yes.

01:17:59.000 That's not... Well, I'm adding the context because he said, if she signed paperwork.

01:17:59.000 I agree.

01:18:04.000 And so I'm pointing out that that was not the situation.

01:18:06.000 Yeah.

01:18:06.000 Okay.

01:18:07.000 Just making sure, just being 100% clear here.

01:18:07.000 All right.

01:18:09.000 So social liberals is a reference to... So do you think that, you know, in the case of a child's health that, you know, and they're not adults, so they can't make decisions for themselves.

01:18:19.000 Do you think the parent can make that decision for a child's health?

01:18:23.000 Okay, so if a baby is born in a vegetative state, can the parent decide to put it out of its misery and not let it just die a slow, agonizing death and say, I am the next of kin.

01:18:23.000 Yes, absolutely.

01:18:35.000 This is not how this life should be.

01:18:37.000 We should just end that life and life support.

01:18:40.000 No.

01:18:41.000 You don't think that's you know, the baby wasn't involved in a traumatic injury, right? So there's there's there's

01:18:45.000 questions They were they were they were they were born with a a life-altering

01:18:49.000 could not even probably won't perhaps won't live And you're saying it's okay for them to be in a vegetative

01:18:55.000 state for who knows how long?

01:18:57.000 Uh, they likely will die in a few months. Maybe maybe even make it a year just in in the hospital

01:19:03.000 You're saying that anything you want to it. I think there's a difference between someone who suffered

01:19:07.000 So you don't think you don't think parents have you don't think that parents have the right to do what's best for

01:19:10.000 their children?

01:19:11.000 Well, let's distinguish- Can I- YOU JUST SAID THAT!

01:19:13.000 No, let's distinguish- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let's- Let What are you talking about?

01:19:28.000 Now who's arguing?

01:19:29.000 No, no, no, because you brought up the Ralph Northam thing.

01:19:31.000 I gave you my answer.

01:19:32.000 The answer is no.

01:19:33.000 You brought up the Ralph Northam thing.

01:19:34.000 I gave you the answer.

01:19:36.000 So you don't think that... I clearly don't agree with the idea that a baby is born with deformity.

01:19:40.000 You kill it.

01:19:41.000 I clearly have legal questions about an individual suffering a serious injury.

01:19:44.000 We're not talking about with like a limp arm or something.

01:19:46.000 We're talking about a quality of life disability where they will never be able to have any quality of life. 0.73

01:19:54.000 I can say the same thing over and over again.

01:19:56.000 I believe that we should not allow doctors to kill a baby regardless.

01:20:02.000 I think every effort should be made to preserve the life of the baby.

01:20:04.000 Okay, so you don't think that people should have a right to die with dignity at all, basically?

01:20:10.000 Kathy Newman, we're not talking about that.

01:20:12.000 If a woman... I think it all really wraps up together. 1.00

01:20:16.000 If a woman like Terri Schiavo suffers a stroke, a disease, she's older and later in life, and she has the ability to make a cognitive decision, or her next of kin does, and it's the issue of do we pull her off life support, that's different from a newborn baby in a different legal context.

01:20:30.000 No, the legal context is the parents have the full right to do what's best for their child.

01:20:34.000 This is a conservative position too, by the way, in terms of parents having the right to... How many times do I have to tell you I'm a liberal?

01:20:39.000 So let me make a point.

01:20:42.000 The issue, well go ahead.

01:20:44.000 Because we have to distinguish between two things.

01:20:46.000 There are situations where a person is injured to the point where they require extraordinary

01:20:52.000 measures in order to stay alive.

01:20:55.000 So we're not talking about food, water, basic treatment.

01:20:58.000 We're talking about things like being hooked up to an insane amount of machines, things that are incredibly burdensome. 0.97

01:21:06.000 There is a difference between a person in that situation who's saying, without all of these unnatural means I would die, so pull the plug, and saying, this person's alive, but they're suffering, so we're going to kill them. 0.75

01:21:16.000 There's a difference between pulling the plug in a life support situation, where that person requires extraordinary means to stay alive, and a person who is alive, and is sustained, but you're deciding to go out of your way to kill them.

01:21:29.000 Those are two different situations.

01:21:30.000 Yeah, that's a good point.

01:21:31.000 But also, I think the point you're making, too, is if the baby was in a situation where it was dying.

01:21:35.000 Let's say the baby's born with a hole in its heart, which happens, and it's bleeding too fast for them to try and surgically repair.

01:21:42.000 My answer is, repair it.

01:21:43.000 Let's say a baby's born without a brain.

01:21:44.000 It's happened before.

01:21:47.000 I think the issue is, I'll tell you why I take the pro-choice stance, the traditional liberal one, not the modern liberal one.

01:21:54.000 I don't believe the government has a right to dictate a person give their body or blood to another person.

01:21:59.000 And there are questions of privacy and there are questions of government overreach.

01:22:03.000 However, when another person enters the equation, you have one person sharing two bodies.

01:22:07.000 That's why I'm like, you know, so second and third trimester abortions are where things get risky.

01:22:12.000 Now, when it comes to a baby being born, the question is, the legal permission to kill a baby?

01:22:19.000 I say the answer is no.

01:22:20.000 Every effort must be made to save the life of the baby.

01:22:24.000 In the instance of Terri Schiavo, every effort was made to save her, but she was dwindling.

01:22:28.000 So it's a question of— What is the effort to save the life of a baby born without a brain?

01:22:33.000 Actually, none.

01:22:34.000 So the baby that was born without a brain, just the cerebellum, I think.

01:22:39.000 I don't know if you know the story.

01:22:40.000 The involuntary functions all functioned completely fine, and general stimuli happened.

01:22:46.000 So the baby was able to eat, was able to basically live and grow, but not articulate thoughts or learn math or things like that.

01:22:54.000 The bigger issue is not a singular case.

01:22:58.000 The issue I have with the Terri Schiavo case is the legal protections of the individual.

01:23:02.000 Terri Schiavo, in this instance, has had an opportunity to file a DNR or not. 0.86

01:23:06.000 Without a do not resuscitate, it falls to the next of kin.

01:23:09.000 A baby hasn't had that opportunity.

01:23:10.000 We don't know.

01:23:11.000 So we just say, preserve the life to the best of our abilities.

01:23:14.000 There are many circumstances where babies were born In a state that a doctor has said it's not viable, and the baby's actually lived.

01:23:21.000 There are many people who actually survived attempts at abortion.

01:23:25.000 There are many people who were born and the doctor didn't believe it was possible.

01:23:28.000 There are many people who were born where the doctor said, you will die if you have this baby.

01:23:32.000 In fact, a good friend of mine was bedridden, I think the entirety of her pregnancy, because the doctor said, we have no choice.

01:23:37.000 And she said, I will lie still on a bed for nine months to have this baby.

01:23:41.000 And the doctor was like, you can't do it.

01:23:42.000 And she had the baby and the kids healthy and alive and living in a normal life.

01:23:45.000 And she made that choice.

01:23:46.000 Absolutely.

01:23:47.000 Not everyone can stay in a bed for nine months straight.

01:23:50.000 That's amazing.

01:23:51.000 If only this country did something for mothers, they could all be in that same position. 1.00

01:23:55.000 So the reason I disagree with late-term abortion, especially, I mean, partial birth abortion is out of the question, is that when a secondary individual's rights are brought into question, you don't have an easy way to say one person's rights trump another.

01:24:09.000 In which case, I think late-term abortions are wrong.

01:24:12.000 I think the killing of a baby, the terminating of a pregnancy, as the CDC defines it, as the Democrats propose it, would be wrong.

01:24:18.000 And for some reason, Seamus over here, who's pro-life, who disagrees with me, Lydia, who disagrees with my position, Have a much more reasonable position to where I'm at than the left does.

01:24:29.000 So for me, let me explain it.

01:24:31.000 Social liberal my whole life.

01:24:33.000 I believe there should have been efforts to alleviate inequality among marginalized races growing up in Chicago and experiencing it.

01:24:40.000 And I believed that freedom of speech was very, very important and we must protect the civil rights of all people.

01:24:44.000 And, you know, my family typically was in the position of first trimester.

01:24:48.000 It's begrudgingly okay.

01:24:50.000 We don't like it, but we recognize the extent to which we're willing government to allow to have a say in certain matters when it comes to a person's life.

01:24:57.000 But when it comes to the issue of a viable baby, then killing it would be egregious and wrong.

01:25:02.000 Now, that position doesn't exist among the modern left in terms of the political space.

01:25:06.000 I can talk to a Democrat like my friend who will tell me that's their belief, and I'll say, but that's not what the Democrats are trying to pass.

01:25:12.000 According to the CDC, abortion would end the life of the baby, and the Democrats passed a bill that had a blanket open the life of the baby can be ended if the mother's health is in question.

01:25:21.000 But if the mother's health is in question, it doesn't explain why you would end the life of the baby when you could just induce labor or perform a c-section.

01:25:27.000 And that's what happens when that situation is possible?

01:25:29.000 That's not abortion. 1.00

01:25:31.000 Wait, what?

01:25:32.000 Let me start again.

01:25:33.000 The CDC defines abortion as a procedure intended to terminate a suspected or known ongoing intrauterine pregnancy, and that does not result in a live birth.

01:25:33.000 Go ahead.

01:25:48.000 The Democrats' bill would remove any restriction on abortion, that is, ending a pregnancy with no live birth after viability.

01:25:59.000 If the pregnant patient's life is in jeopardy.

01:26:01.000 So where are you?

01:26:03.000 I'm a little bit... The reason I think there's some confusion here is I'm confused what your position is.

01:26:07.000 What is the Tim Pool position on this?

01:26:09.000 Because you said safe, legal, and rare.

01:26:11.000 Well, I've absolutely defined it several times.

01:26:13.000 Let me do it again for you.

01:26:14.000 Okay.

01:26:15.000 Within the first trimester... Do you think it's not safe, legal, and rare now?

01:26:17.000 I don't know what that means.

01:26:19.000 What does that mean?

01:26:20.000 I don't know, that's what you've been saying, that it needs to be safe, legal, and rare.

01:26:22.000 So what do you consider to be safe, legal, and rare?

01:26:27.000 Without bringing up anything in other states, give me what you consider a safe abortion, a legal abortion, and what rare means in the term of abortion.

01:26:35.000 So, safe, legal, and rare is a political catchphrase from the 90s.

01:26:40.000 That you use a lot, yes.

01:26:41.000 Right, right.

01:26:41.000 Because it represents the position of, we don't like abortion.

01:26:45.000 We think it's wrong.

01:26:46.000 Right?

01:26:47.000 But it's not.

01:26:48.000 It's not wrong. 0.84

01:26:48.000 Yes, it is. 0.84

01:26:49.000 It's not wrong. 0.84

01:26:51.000 If abortion saves a woman's life, then it's not wrong. 0.99

01:26:53.000 It's a triumph of medicine to save a woman's life.

01:26:58.000 I'm sorry, James.

01:26:59.000 Let me try and answer.

01:27:00.000 So, in the 90s we said safe, illegal, and rare because it represented a position we had.

01:27:03.000 Abortion as contraception is wrong. 0.69

01:27:05.000 What do you think?

01:27:06.000 Do you think abortion as contraception is okay?

01:27:08.000 Abortion as contraception? 0.94

01:27:09.000 Well, that's why we need to have sex education because it's preferable to not do that. 1.00

01:27:13.000 I don't disagree.

01:27:14.000 Do you think abortion as contraception is wrong?

01:27:16.000 Personally, I wouldn't do it because, I mean, I have two kids.

01:27:19.000 So, I mean, I've planned and, you know, these were two planned children.

01:27:23.000 And these are two kids that I wanted to have.

01:27:25.000 But is it wrong?

01:27:26.000 Is it wrong?

01:27:26.000 What?

01:27:27.000 Abortion as contraception. 0.60

01:27:28.000 No, I don't think it's wrong.

01:27:28.000 In a perfect world, we would have sex education and this wouldn't happen.

01:27:33.000 But we don't live in a perfect world.

01:27:34.000 Well, so why would a perfect world?

01:27:36.000 I'm confused.

01:27:37.000 Are you saying it's wrong or it's not wrong?

01:27:39.000 Oh, it's not wrong.

01:27:40.000 So we don't need sex education. 0.99

01:27:41.000 No, sex education is preferable.

01:27:41.000 It's fine.

01:27:43.000 I just said that.

01:27:44.000 Right, right, right.

01:27:45.000 But irrespective of abortion as contraception, because you don't think it's wrong.

01:27:49.000 I don't think it's wrong.

01:27:50.000 But it's preferable that it doesn't happen.

01:27:52.000 Okay, okay, okay.

01:27:53.000 I understand, I understand.

01:27:54.000 So, I think it's wrong.

01:27:57.000 But I don't think it should... I just... I don't like the idea that the government intervenes at a certain stage in the pregnancy, and so... But you still haven't answered my question about what safe, legal, and rare means to you.

01:28:11.000 Like, what does rare for you mean in the sense of abortion?

01:28:14.000 Not abortion as contraception. 0.59

01:28:16.000 Okay.

01:28:16.000 Which is 92% of abortions, elective abortions.

01:28:18.000 Okay, we have, in terms of... What percentage is rape or incest?

01:28:23.000 I think it's... It's like 1%, I think.

01:28:24.000 Right, right, right, right.

01:28:25.000 Less than 1%.

01:28:26.000 It's 0.84%, I think.

01:28:27.000 So, rare is people should not be going out, having sex, getting pregnant, and then being like, eh, get an abortion.

01:28:35.000 However, my position, because it comes from a libertarian stance, the government shouldn't be involved, means It's gonna happen.

01:28:43.000 I don't like it.

01:28:44.000 I think it's wrong.

01:28:45.000 But safe, legal, and rare means legal.

01:28:47.000 Means the government doesn't intervene.

01:28:49.000 However... I mean, by the sense of it being legal, the government has intervened.

01:28:54.000 Because they've made it legal.

01:28:56.000 No, the government doesn't make things legal.

01:28:58.000 Things are either legal or... Things already are legal, or they're decriminalized, or they're made illegal.

01:29:04.000 The government doesn't make something legal for you.

01:29:06.000 If Roe v. Wade gets overturned, what happens in this country?

01:29:12.000 Abortion becomes up to the states who can make it illegal, right?

01:29:17.000 But states can already remove the restrictions in place.

01:29:17.000 Right.

01:29:22.000 Okay, so you said they're making it legal.

01:29:24.000 They can remove some restrictions.

01:29:27.000 So to answer your question, as I've been trying to- Wait, you know we don't go by the trimester thing anymore, right?

01:29:32.000 What do you mean?

01:29:33.000 Roe v. Wade isn't the law of the- Roe v. Wade is the law of the land when it comes to abortion.

01:29:38.000 But we don't go by first, second, and third trimester when it comes to abortion regulations. 0.95

01:29:40.000 Right, right, right.

01:29:41.000 Those are just easy ways to understand what I really mean.

01:29:43.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't know the point you're trying to make.

01:29:53.000 set the remove the restrictions on on trimester and raise the question of

01:29:56.000 viability I don't know what you're asking okay and it also paved the way

01:30:00.000 for more I don't know the point you're trying to make restrictions right okay

01:30:05.000 so we already allowed in this country dude thanks to Roe v.

01:30:10.000 Wade and Casey be Planned Parenthood we can a state can decide to put

01:30:17.000 restrictions on abortion even in the first trimester now since 1992 Casey

01:30:24.000 And after viability, which is different for every woman, it's up to a doctor to decide through scanning and everything, they can then say, once it's viable, the state can ban abortion completely at that point.

01:30:39.000 Except for in the case of health of the mother.

01:30:42.000 Right.

01:30:43.000 Which makes no sense.

01:30:43.000 End.

01:30:44.000 How does that make no sense?

01:30:46.000 Why kill a baby if it's viable?

01:30:48.000 No, no, no, no, no, no. 0.62

01:30:49.000 You don't understand.

01:30:50.000 Yeah.

01:30:50.000 They can ban abortion except for when it needs to happen to protect the life and safety and health of the mother.

01:30:59.000 I mean, we already see this.

01:31:00.000 If the baby is viable.

01:31:01.000 We already see this in this country.

01:31:02.000 If the baby is viable and the pregnancy needs to be ended, why kill the baby?

01:31:09.000 We're talking, we're talking at like, could be like 20 weeks.

01:31:13.000 You're right, viability specifically.

01:31:15.000 At 20 weeks and the baby's not viable.

01:31:16.000 That's why I don't care for the trimester thing.

01:31:17.000 My point is if the baby is viable, life rights come into play.

01:31:21.000 So for conservatives and pro-lifers, life rights are in play from the day of conception.

01:31:27.000 Like, you're arguing with a pro-choice person?

01:31:29.000 You realize that, right?

01:31:30.000 Liability.

01:31:30.000 me that. When do you think abortion should be legalized?

01:31:37.000 When should there be a ban on abortion? Viability. Because at that point, the baby can 0.98

01:31:41.000 just be delivered. That's not Right, right.

01:31:44.000 So, that's why I said it should be all attempts to save the life of the baby shall be made.

01:31:48.000 If the baby dies because it can't survive, well, you know, that's difficult.

01:31:52.000 If the health of the mother's at risk, and they make an attempt to save the six months, the baby's barely viable.

01:31:58.000 The mother is told, you're at risk for this condition, and we have to end the pregnancy, I'm sorry.

01:32:05.000 Every effort should be made to save the life of the baby.

01:32:08.000 But the baby might die.

01:32:10.000 And I recognize that.

01:32:11.000 It's unfortunate.

01:32:12.000 And I think that should be allowed.

01:32:13.000 The abortion should happen. 1.00

01:32:15.000 I'm sorry, the abortion as legally defined shouldn't.

01:32:17.000 A induced delivery via C-section or labor.

01:32:20.000 So what is your opinion about what's, because we're talking about this now and you know I think obviously we have our opinions and we're agreeing on some things and disagreeing on others.

01:32:29.000 What is your opinion on what's going on right now though?

01:32:31.000 Colorado removed all restrictions.

01:32:33.000 No, I'm talking about what's going to happen right now with the Supreme Court.

01:32:36.000 Yeah, they're gonna overturn Roe v. Wade.

01:32:38.000 Okay.

01:32:38.000 Red states are gonna enact trigger laws and they're gonna outright ban abortion across the board.

01:32:41.000 Yes.

01:32:42.000 I disagree with that.

01:32:43.000 Okay, good.

01:32:44.000 I think, especially when the conservatives argue rape and incest, it seems to be a conflicted argument where they say, Uh, in the instance of rape and incest, we'll allow that exception.

01:32:53.000 And I'm like, I can understand that point from a libertarian perspective, but not from a moral position on when life begins.

01:32:59.000 Because, I mean, you, Seamus.

01:33:01.000 No exceptions.

01:33:01.000 Yeah, there's a couple things I want to jump into here.

01:33:03.000 So you mentioned situations where a mother has to have an abortion because her life is at risk.

01:33:08.000 And there are doctors I've spoken to, there are even notes and petitions signed by literal hundreds of doctors who say that is an inaccurate description.

01:33:17.000 That is not what happens.

01:33:18.000 There is no such thing as a medically necessary abortion.

01:33:20.000 There are procedures that might need to be performed on a woman who is pregnant, which can cause her to miscarry.

01:33:27.000 But that is not the same as an abortion.

01:33:29.000 Abortion is when you go in there with the direct intent To end the life of an unborn child. 0.99

01:33:34.000 If there's an operation, I just want to say, if there's an operation that has to be performed in order to save the life of the mother, but it poses a risk to the unborn child and increases the probability that they will die, that there will be a miscarriage, that is not an abortion.

01:33:48.000 That is an attempt at a medical procedure that has an unintended consequence.

01:33:52.000 That is the CDC's definition of abortion.

01:33:54.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:33:55.000 I think that's important because when I tweeted that thing about abortion at eight months, Hassan's followers said, you're an idiot, they would perform a c-section or induced labor. 0.99

01:34:06.000 But the CDC doesn't define induced labor or c-section as that. 0.99

01:34:10.000 It says not resulting in a live birth.

01:34:13.000 What I'm confused about here, and we could talk about this, I feel like we've already covered this, but what I'm concerned about here in terms of talking with you about this is, for the past couple of weeks I've noticed you've been talking a lot about this issue, and it's been a big issue since Roe v. Wade, but your focus seems to have been on these sort of edge cases that bolster the Anti-choice position like you're not here sitting here and talking about how horrible it is About all the women who will miscarry and go through all sorts of the legal issues in these red states.

01:34:47.000 You're not sitting here talking about state You know how hard that is for people?

01:34:53.000 Not everyone is... No, it's not just... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:34:55.000 That's a major factor in people's lives.

01:34:57.000 No, I know it's hard.

01:34:58.000 But you've also not heard me say, apparently, that when I tell conservatives, if you want to live in these areas where your kids are in these schools, you need to get up and move, and it might be hard.

01:34:58.000 Yeah.

01:35:08.000 I mean, my position on this is... What do schools have to do with what we're talking about right now?

01:35:11.000 So I'm explaining to you what you misunderstand.

01:35:14.000 Let me answer your question.

01:35:16.000 When you're like, why aren't you telling women, I say the same thing to conservatives.

01:35:21.000 My position on personal responsibility is the same across the board regardless of what the issue is.

01:35:28.000 No, it's not.

01:35:29.000 It's not.

01:35:29.000 Because you've been focusing on the past two weeks, or three weeks, however long it's been.

01:35:34.000 You've been focusing on talking about these edge case scenarios where like, oh, you bring up Ralph Northam.

01:35:41.000 He's not even relevant anymore.

01:35:42.000 This is three years ago now, he's not even in power.

01:35:44.000 Is Kathy Tran?

01:35:45.000 Excuse me?

01:35:45.000 What?

01:35:46.000 Is Kathy Tran still- Maybe she is, I don't know, but that bill is not up for anything.

01:35:49.000 It would be- So, they're trying to pass these bills that I don't like, right?

01:35:53.000 Well, they're not going to be able to.

01:35:55.000 So, is it because maybe I spoke up against it and helped contributed to pushback from people who disagree with it?

01:36:00.000 Is that true?

01:36:01.000 Did you do that?

01:36:02.000 Considering that I've been speaking about that issue for a long enough period of time, and we live next to Loudoun County, and people in Virginia are fans of the show, and I see them, I think we did.

01:36:11.000 I think the fact that I said these psychopaths are trying to pass a bill where the woman actually said at the point of birth you could kill the baby, I think that absolutely contributes to people being like, vote her out, get her out.

01:36:21.000 Now, I don't know if she's still in office, but Northam for sure.

01:36:25.000 The Ralph Northam thing, absolutely.

01:36:26.000 Matt Walsh came down here 20 minutes away.

01:36:28.000 Sure, okay.

01:36:29.000 So that's why I talk about it.

01:36:30.000 Tim Pool's got power, okay.

01:36:31.000 So why aren't you using the same power to fight what we're talking about right now?

01:36:36.000 If I what?

01:36:37.000 What's going to happen to women's rights? 1.00

01:36:40.000 I will not stand next to a man who told me to my face he is okay with killing a baby at 9 months.

01:36:46.000 If I had to make the choice between banning abortion across the board or standing next to people who would advocate for 9 month abortion, I will stand next to the people who are saying ban it across the board. 0.63

01:36:59.000 Period.

01:37:00.000 You need to understand how psychotic the left in Colorado sounds when they say, terminate the life of the baby at viability to the overwhelming majority of this country that think that's wrong.

01:37:14.000 70% of this country is pro-choice and believes there should be restrictions.

01:37:18.000 And there are right now.

01:37:19.000 You should be advocating right now.

01:37:20.000 And Colorado is removing them.

01:37:21.000 You should be advocating right now for exactly what we have, to disagree with Roe v. Wade.

01:37:28.000 I don't disagree with it.

01:37:29.000 But you do.

01:37:30.000 In what capacity?

01:37:31.000 Because... How does Colorado... How is Colorado allowed to have those restrictions under Roe v. Wade?

01:37:37.000 No, I'll agree with you to a certain... I mean, you have to!

01:37:39.000 No, you have to!

01:37:40.000 Alright, slow down.

01:37:41.000 I'll agree with you.

01:37:42.000 If Colorado... You just got super angry at me, now I'm doing the same to you and I gotta slow down?

01:37:45.000 If you... I made one point, you made... I'm trying to address one point.

01:37:48.000 Okay, go ahead.

01:37:49.000 If I say one thing... You said... You said exactly what I just... I would actually say...

01:37:55.000 I would probably lean at this point more towards rights falling to the individual states.

01:38:00.000 Okay, so you're happy Roe v. Wade is going down.

01:38:02.000 I wouldn't say happy.

01:38:04.000 That's a bit of an overstatement.

01:38:05.000 I mean, you are now on the record saying you prefer Roe v. Wade not being the law of the land.

01:38:12.000 I think the issue is more so— I mean, it's pretty simple.

01:38:16.000 I think this is an easy— Do you want me to answer or do you want to keep talking?

01:38:19.000 I want you to answer it definitively.

01:38:20.000 Right, so I'm a moderate, right?

01:38:23.000 I thought you were a liberal.

01:38:25.000 Moderates can be liberals.

01:38:28.000 So, social liberal is a center-left position on the political compass.

01:38:32.000 That's typically where I've been my whole life.

01:38:34.000 There are deep moral and ethical questions I don't have the answers to.

01:38:37.000 At this point, considering the disruption in the United States and the extreme hyperpolarization, I would fall more towards on states' rights.

01:38:45.000 And that's because... That's not a liberal position at all.

01:38:49.000 I mean, states' rights is firmly in right-wing libertarianism.

01:38:53.000 It's not right-wing libertarian, it's actually just general libertarian.

01:38:56.000 So left libertarians also agree with decentralization of authority and power.

01:39:00.000 Left-wing libertarians do not agree with decentralization of authority and power.

01:39:05.000 Not in that same way, but go ahead.

01:39:06.000 You think anarchists want a strong federal government?

01:39:08.000 Anarchists and libertarians are not the same thing.

01:39:10.000 Left libertarians.

01:39:12.000 Ancoms. 0.99

01:39:13.000 You think they want a strong federal government?

01:39:15.000 No, anarchists and libertarians are not the same thing.

01:39:17.000 Do you know what the political compass is?

01:39:20.000 Yes, I do.

01:39:20.000 Do you know what anarchy means?

01:39:21.000 Yes, I do.

01:39:22.000 What does anarchy mean?

01:39:23.000 Anarchy means the absence of government.

01:39:26.000 No government.

01:39:27.000 Anarchy means without authority.

01:39:28.000 Yeah.

01:39:29.000 So if you're an authoritarian, you adhere to what's the authority.

01:39:32.000 That's the same thing what I just said.

01:39:34.000 So you can be a left libertarian or a right libertarian.

01:39:34.000 No authority.

01:39:37.000 Civil liberties.

01:39:38.000 We're talking about civil liberties?

01:39:39.000 Yes.

01:39:40.000 So if you're a left libertarian, you typically agree with like... But left libertarians agree in civil liberties across the board.

01:39:45.000 They don't want like one state saying civil liberties, these civil liberties are okay, but another state is saying those civil liberties are not okay.

01:39:52.000 If the state enforces something as authoritarian.

01:39:56.000 Not necessarily.

01:39:57.000 I'm not saying it's authoritarianism.

01:39:58.000 I'm saying it's an authoritarian position.

01:40:00.000 Oh, it comes from the position of power and authority.

01:40:02.000 Right, right, right.

01:40:02.000 So left libertarian, depending on which position you're at, would advocate for different degrees of authority from the government.

01:40:07.000 If you want to have the political conversation, we could do that, but I want to go back to what we were just talking about.

01:40:12.000 Because I don't think you definitively said, on the record, what is your position on Roe v. Wade?

01:40:17.000 Do you prefer— For it.

01:40:18.000 For it.

01:40:19.000 Yeah, my issue outside of Roe v. Wade is that this country is being ripped apart to prevent conflict.

01:40:24.000 You just said before that you'd prefer it not to happen because you hated what was happening in Colorado.

01:40:29.000 No, that's not what I said.

01:40:30.000 That is what you said.

01:40:31.000 No, it isn't.

01:40:31.000 I wish we could rewind this.

01:40:32.000 People will be able to rewind this.

01:40:33.000 That's what you said.

01:40:34.000 Listen, calm down.

01:40:36.000 Colorado is the extreme left position.

01:40:39.000 If I were to say the states can make their decision, Colorado is allowed to keep doing what they're doing.

01:40:43.000 That's not restricting it.

01:40:44.000 If I were to say the federal government should step in, it would stop Colorado from doing it.

01:40:49.000 My position on Roe v. Wade, for the most part, is that I agree with it. 0.62

01:40:53.000 My position on today's politics across the board is that the country is being gutted and ripped apart, and perhaps preventing conflict means pulling back on what states can do, weakening the federal government.

01:41:05.000 That's not a position on abortion, it's a position on authority versus liberty.

01:41:08.000 It means bad things will happen I don't like.

01:41:10.000 But it also means I'm worried that the extreme polarization of Colorado or Virginia versus Oklahoma are deeply troubling and maybe pulling back federal authority can help alleviate some of the tension.

01:41:23.000 I'm not saying it's a guaranteed answer and I don't know it's right.

01:41:26.000 But my position on authority versus liberty is irrespective of abortion.

01:41:29.000 My position on authority and liberty means bad things happen I don't like, but I'm trying to stop people from killing each other.

01:41:36.000 If you have a total ban on abortion, the left goes nuts.

01:41:40.000 If you have unrestricted abortion, the right goes nuts.

01:41:43.000 So what we have right now seems to be, you know, you talk about compromise, right?

01:41:46.000 I've heard you talk about compromise.

01:41:47.000 What we have right now would be your perfect scenario, right?

01:41:50.000 It's not because in many states they were moving all the restrictions and the Democrats at the federal level just tried to allow the termination of a baby at nine months.

01:42:00.000 If they add a provision to it that says all efforts must be made to save the life of a baby and took out the term abortion and said a pregnancy can't be ended.

01:42:08.000 You don't have to worry about it.

01:42:08.000 But that didn't pass.

01:42:10.000 They just tried to pass it.

01:42:11.000 And it didn't pass.

01:42:12.000 Do you know where I live?

01:42:14.000 Sure.

01:42:14.000 West Virginia.

01:42:15.000 Do you know who my senator is?

01:42:15.000 I mean, I'm here right now.

01:42:18.000 Joe Manchin.

01:42:18.000 And who stopped the bill from passing?

01:42:19.000 There you go.

01:42:20.000 And why do you think I'm talking about it?

01:42:21.000 Because you're a big fan of Joe Manchin.

01:42:23.000 Because Joe Manchin did something I like.

01:42:25.000 I don't like Joe Manchin for the most part, but I do like this.

01:42:27.000 What don't you like about him?

01:42:28.000 I think he's an establishment shill. 0.90

01:42:29.000 I think he just says what he thinks is going to play the best, and I don't think he's genuinely interested in fixing problems.

01:42:36.000 What did you think about him killing Build Back Better?

01:42:38.000 Define- you mean the- the infrastructure plan?

01:42:40.000 No, the bill that had a swath of things.

01:42:43.000 The main thing for me, the main thing that would have really been amazing is the child care, the return of the child tax credits, the extension of the 3K federally.

01:42:58.000 I mean, those are huge, amazing things.

01:43:00.000 If you're a fan of doing the best for children in this country, those things were fantastic.

01:43:08.000 In 2008, into 2012, into 2016, I've always been in favor of social programs, and I've always advocated for such.

01:43:15.000 My concern with them is that what happens with a lot of these social programs is, let's say you get a wound on your arm, is my analogy.

01:43:22.000 People are homeless.

01:43:23.000 Kids don't have food.

01:43:24.000 Your society has a wound.

01:43:26.000 So we put a bandage on it.

01:43:27.000 That's a government program.

01:43:29.000 We're trying to mend that damage.

01:43:31.000 The problem with the government is that 12 months later, instead of taking the bandage off and assessing the issue, sunsetting or otherwise, they reapply another bandage on top.

01:43:40.000 Instead of using this weird anecdote, can you give me an actual example?

01:43:44.000 They never reassess or end programs.

01:43:47.000 Like what program do you think should be ended?

01:43:51.000 I'm not saying they should.

01:43:52.000 I don't... But that's what you just said.

01:43:54.000 So what I'm saying is that... You said they should reassess programs and end them.

01:43:57.000 That's what you just said.

01:43:58.000 I know.

01:43:59.000 You're smiling, but you're not understanding what I'm saying.

01:44:01.000 Okay?

01:44:02.000 Okay.

01:44:04.000 Physical corporations, private corporations, can fail, right?

01:44:08.000 Of course.

01:44:09.000 Social programs can't.

01:44:12.000 When have we or has there been a major reassessment of programs that have or have not worked?

01:44:19.000 So I'll give you an example.

01:44:20.000 You can look at the disaster that was Pruitt-Igoe, right? 0.97

01:44:23.000 So I did a documentary on the public housing and how instead of reassessing and solving the problem, it dissolved into racist violence and created some of the most worst racial tensions in this country in St.

01:44:35.000 Louis.

01:44:36.000 My issue with government programs is that they're good, but we need to make sure we have strong leadership and we don't just say, sign the check, sign the check, sign the check, sign the check.

01:44:46.000 My issue right now— What did you think of the child tax credit?

01:44:50.000 Explain.

01:44:52.000 Give me the details.

01:44:52.000 Sure, parents of children under the age of, I think it was six, would get $300 a month tax credit, and then over six to, I believe, I don't remember when the cutoff was, I know specifically six and two-year-olds, because that's the age of my children.

01:45:09.000 And so every month I was able to receive, along with everybody else who has a child in that age range,

01:45:14.000 300 for the under six, 250 for the six-year-old. And for me personally,

01:45:23.000 like people might be shocked to know this if they know me as a blue check on Twitter.

01:45:27.000 But just having a blue check on Twitter doesn't mean you're all that rich or wealthy.

01:45:32.000 Good thing.

01:45:32.000 Yeah.

01:45:34.000 Two points, though.

01:45:34.000 Two points.

01:45:35.000 Let me explain to you the child tax credit.

01:45:37.000 So basically, you get that child tax credit.

01:45:40.000 For me, for my family, it's a huge help.

01:45:42.000 We were able to pay for a number of child care things, schooling as well.

01:45:45.000 Go ahead.

01:45:46.000 Two points.

01:45:47.000 One, child tax credits are incredible and really good things.

01:45:51.000 We, if there's anything we want to do in this country, is provide tax breaks to parents and do what we can to encourage people to have families.

01:45:58.000 Second point is, my criticism of Build Back Better, for the most part, was the economy is imploding.

01:46:05.000 So my perspective on a lot of these things has less to do with what a perfect society can and should do, and more so like, have you looked at the M1 money stock recently?

01:46:14.000 No.

01:46:15.000 Let me pull that up for you.

01:46:16.000 Well, one thing, while you're doing that, you said before that you believe you had some power based on where you are in terms of local politics.

01:46:24.000 Well, I'm talking about, as a resident of West Virginia, my advocacy plays a role in what people in West Virginia do.

01:46:31.000 While you're on air right now, you should tell Joe Manchin that the child tax credit was a huge help to families across this country.

01:46:38.000 Joe Manchin's child tax credit was a huge help to families across this country.

01:46:42.000 I'm really happy you're doing that.

01:46:43.000 And you should advocate for it more often on your show.

01:46:46.000 We literally have.

01:46:47.000 Good.

01:46:48.000 I have to pull it up.

01:46:49.000 But you realize that's also a deeply far-right position.

01:46:52.000 I'm not saying it's only a far-right position.

01:46:55.000 If you look at, I think, Romania, they do huge tax credits when you have kids.

01:47:00.000 Like, conservatives are like, more babies, more babies, government, government, tax credits.

01:47:04.000 Take a look at the M1 money stock.

01:47:05.000 It's weird though that that's the case in Romania because here in this country every Republican voted against it.

01:47:10.000 But it's not just voting against that.

01:47:12.000 Take a look at the M1 money stock.

01:47:14.000 Do you know what this is?

01:47:15.000 What it represents?

01:47:16.000 Honestly, I'm not familiar with this.

01:47:18.000 Does this look shocking?

01:47:19.000 This spike?

01:47:20.000 Sure.

01:47:21.000 Does it look shocking compared to going back to 1960 in terms of our money supply?

01:47:25.000 Sure.

01:47:26.000 Something weird is going on.

01:47:28.000 And if you look beyond the major spike, this is the M1 money supply.

01:47:33.000 It's a reference to money in circulation.

01:47:36.000 In 2020, because of the pandemic, the rules were changed that allowed savings accounts to enter general money supply.

01:47:43.000 It used to be that there were limitations on how much you could pull out of savings.

01:47:46.000 This caused a massive spike in the money supply from $4 trillion up to $16 trillion eligible in the money supply.

01:47:54.000 But we can ignore that because it's a rule change, although I think it's substantial.

01:47:57.000 You take a look at from May of 2020 until today, and you can see that the economy has expanded, or I should say that the money supply has expanded by over $4 trillion.

01:48:06.000 One of the reasons, if not the biggest reason, why we're seeing such rapid inflation, which is gutting families, is because of the mass spending.

01:48:14.000 I'd love to see a tax credit for families based on kids.

01:48:17.000 I'd love to see people get huge benefits when they have kids.

01:48:20.000 And I think it's one of the best ways to actually dish out tax credits.

01:48:22.000 Sure, and I just want to also add again that Republicans vote against those things all the time.

01:48:26.000 They are the ones who are against that.

01:48:27.000 I just want to make that clear.

01:48:28.000 We should really hone in on that.

01:48:30.000 Yeah, I don't like Republicans.

01:48:31.000 Good, good.

01:48:32.000 So when you look at the money supply and you realize that we are headed towards a credit cardiac arrest, stealing that line from Hugo Ferrant in Juice Wrapped News, we can't sustain this.

01:48:44.000 We are in dire straits right here.

01:48:47.000 Diesel fuel is facing shortages.

01:48:49.000 Do you know what happens if diesel shortages hit?

01:48:51.000 It gets harder for trucks to deliver?

01:48:51.000 Oh, sure.

01:48:53.000 No, no, no.

01:48:54.000 It means they can't grow food.

01:48:55.000 Okay.

01:48:56.000 What are you going to eat?

01:48:57.000 Okay.

01:48:58.000 Only after every trucker has run out of gas, after every factory has stopped producing and every farm stopped tilling will socialists realize you can't eat money.

01:49:07.000 What do you think we should do about it?

01:49:09.000 I think we've got to curtail the spending and raise interest rates.

01:49:12.000 One of the things they did was raise interest rates.

01:49:12.000 Okay.

01:49:14.000 You don't think we should raise taxes on... On who?

01:49:16.000 On the wealthy.

01:49:17.000 Who's the wealthy?

01:49:18.000 I mean, who's the wealthy?

01:49:19.000 No, no, no, like, define wealthy.

01:49:21.000 I'll say, you know, for me, wealthy is probably much lower than most, based on my own... How much do wealthy people pay in taxes?

01:49:29.000 Not enough.

01:49:30.000 Not enough.

01:49:30.000 What?

01:49:31.000 Tell me how much you want to tax them.

01:49:32.000 Not enough.

01:49:32.000 What's the number?

01:49:33.000 Not enough.

01:49:33.000 Probably, but we've taxed them back in, you know, in the FDR years.

01:49:36.000 What is that?

01:49:37.000 Probably like something like 90 something percent.

01:49:39.000 But they didn't pay that in the FDR years.

01:49:40.000 They skirted that.

01:49:41.000 That's part of why they adjusted the tax code.

01:49:43.000 So 90 percent of what?

01:49:43.000 Right.

01:49:46.000 Of their tax.

01:49:48.000 I mean, of their income.

01:49:50.000 How do rich people make money?

01:49:51.000 What do you mean, how do rich people make money?

01:49:52.000 How do rich people make money?

01:49:53.000 There's all sorts of different ways they make money.

01:49:55.000 Do you know what Jeff Bezos' income is?

01:49:55.000 Some of them invest.

01:49:58.000 Oh, you're talking about because they have so much in stocks?

01:50:01.000 No.

01:50:02.000 OK, then what are you talking about?

01:50:03.000 You said their income.

01:50:05.000 What's Jeff Bezos's income?

01:50:05.000 Right.

01:50:07.000 Oh, I don't know if he's cashed any stocks this year.

01:50:09.000 I don't know what his regular income is.

01:50:10.000 I don't know.

01:50:12.000 His income, his salaried income is $83,000.

01:50:14.000 His actual income... It doesn't surprise me.

01:50:14.000 Right.

01:50:16.000 They do that.

01:50:17.000 Yeah, sure.

01:50:17.000 A million bucks.

01:50:18.000 Sure.

01:50:18.000 He makes a million dollars.

01:50:19.000 That's how much he makes.

01:50:19.000 Sure.

01:50:20.000 Sure.

01:50:21.000 You want to tax the guy who makes a million dollars? 0.53

01:50:23.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:50:24.000 Is that going to pay down $4 trillion in Well, are you saying that someone like that is never going to cash in any of their stock?

01:50:31.000 He just lives off a million dollars a year?

01:50:33.000 They do.

01:50:33.000 I actually think we should tax the rich, by the way.

01:50:35.000 I just think you don't know anything about it.

01:50:37.000 I don't know.

01:50:37.000 What do you mean?

01:50:38.000 I simply want to tax them more.

01:50:39.000 It's that simple.

01:50:40.000 But where?

01:50:40.000 What do you mean, where?

01:50:41.000 Like, tax them on what?

01:50:43.000 Oh, uh, capital gains.

01:50:44.000 How much?

01:50:45.000 Mmm, I just told you.

01:50:46.000 What?

01:50:47.000 Same amount?

01:50:48.000 Yeah.

01:50:48.000 90% of capital gains.

01:50:49.000 What will that do?

01:50:50.000 What will that do?

01:50:50.000 Bring in a lot of money.

01:50:51.000 Why?

01:50:51.000 What do you mean, why?

01:50:53.000 Why will it bring in a lot of money?

01:50:54.000 What does that mean?

01:50:55.000 Why?

01:50:56.000 Why would that bring in a lot of money?

01:50:57.000 I'm telling you.

01:50:58.000 How would taxing someone's capital gains bring in money?

01:51:00.000 Give me the mechanics.

01:51:02.000 If someone sells, for example, Elon Musk sells a billion dollars in Tesla stock and we take 900 million of it.

01:51:13.000 So if he doesn't sell the stock, what happens?

01:51:16.000 Well, sure.

01:51:17.000 Then that happens.

01:51:17.000 Yeah, sure.

01:51:18.000 So then you're not taxing anything.

01:51:19.000 Well, they do need to.

01:51:21.000 I mean, he just did though, right?

01:51:23.000 Yeah.

01:51:23.000 And then he paid them more taxes than anyone else in history.

01:51:25.000 I think we should tax the rich in a variety of ways.

01:51:28.000 Oh, did YouTube just crash on us?

01:51:30.000 We just lost every super chat.

01:51:31.000 Are you kidding me?

01:51:33.000 You know what I think it is?

01:51:35.000 YouTube just deleted all of the super chats.

01:51:37.000 You got to be kidding me.

01:51:38.000 Really?

01:51:38.000 Why did they do that?

01:51:39.000 I'm going to swear.

01:51:41.000 I don't think it can handle this level of Super Chat.

01:51:44.000 Seriously?

01:51:45.000 Wow, man.

01:51:46.000 Oh my gosh.

01:51:47.000 I apologize to everybody because we pushed it longer than we normally do because I think it's worth a conversation to have.

01:51:52.000 Wait, what happened?

01:51:53.000 I still see Super Chats in my replay of it.

01:51:56.000 I can only see some.

01:51:57.000 I can only see like 10 of them.

01:52:00.000 Well, we'll get to those.

01:52:02.000 So here's the issue.

01:52:04.000 What is that law about taxes going too high and people losing tax revenue?

01:52:08.000 Yeah, so this is known as the Laffer Curve.

01:52:10.000 And basically, there are some left-wing people who will say the Laffer Curve doesn't exist, but it's an uneducated take because every left-wing economist agrees it exists.

01:52:17.000 The only disagreement between the left and the right is where that parabola peaks and how high of a tax rate you can get away with, how that changes based on industry.

01:52:24.000 But regardless of what tax rates have been, generally speaking, federal revenues have never exceeded 20% of GDP.

01:52:31.000 So there's no real reason to believe we could ever have anything greater than that in federal revenue for a sustained period of time regardless of what the tax rate is.

01:52:40.000 I'm gonna try and see if I can find an alternative way to pull up the super chats.

01:52:42.000 Sorry.

01:52:43.000 So, um, usually read the super chats on the show.

01:52:46.000 We normally we do.

01:52:47.000 And we do at 930.

01:52:48.000 But I was like, this is a good conversation.

01:52:50.000 And well, let's what we should really talk about.

01:52:52.000 It's kind of incredible.

01:52:53.000 We haven't talked about it yet.

01:52:54.000 I don't think it should be cut into the second part of the show.

01:52:58.000 I think really think we should talk about what was the big story of the weekend was this, this mass shooting.

01:53:03.000 Let me answer the tax thing real quick so we don't get away from it.

01:53:08.000 So what happens with taxes is when you raise the tax rate, you reduce trade volume.

01:53:14.000 Reducing trade volume actually reduces the amount of money you make.

01:53:17.000 I actually agree with taxing the rich.

01:53:19.000 I think we need to increase the tax brackets.

01:53:20.000 I think they've not been increased in a long time.

01:53:23.000 And it's not so much a percentage base, it's that if you're making $2.50, like right now I think the top bracket is well like $2.50 plus.

01:53:29.000 So like somebody who makes $13 million a year in a salary is paying the same percentage as someone who makes $2.50?

01:53:34.000 That's crazy.

01:53:35.000 I certainly think we can raise the brackets so we space things out and we end up taxing the rich more.

01:53:42.000 The majority of millionaires I think run what are called, what did the New York Times call it?

01:53:48.000 I don't know what the New York Times calls it.

01:53:49.000 Rich people, the majority of the 1% are auto dealers and plumbing companies and construction companies.

01:53:56.000 They're people who own small businesses with a few franchises who make more than a million dollars a year, and that's the top 0.1%.

01:54:02.000 Then there's a small handful of billionaires, like in the couple hundred.

01:54:06.000 But billionaires is based on net worth, which is very often imaginary numbers.

01:54:14.000 If you raise capital gains, you reduce trade volume in the market.

01:54:19.000 Reducing trade volume reduces your revenues.

01:54:20.000 It's the Laffer Curve he's referring to.

01:54:22.000 So just raising rates 90% doesn't change anything.

01:54:25.000 It just disrupts the system and causes major hiccups.

01:54:27.000 Although I said I agree with taxing the rich.

01:54:30.000 I think the issue is, for me, When I, when I, when I made this point about abortion and then all of these people associated with the left were like, that's just, they would just do a c-section, they would just do endless labor, they don't know what the legal definition is, they don't know the CDC definition, and they don't know what the Democrats tried to do. 0.90

01:54:47.000 Instead of actually engaging honestly and legitimately saying, that's an interesting point the law is making there, they just ignore it, say I'm stupid, or just don't even engage with the issue.

01:54:57.000 I don't know who you're specifically talking about, but, um, I think, I think, I think we, well, I'm sitting here and I think we engage with it quite well.

01:55:02.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:55:03.000 So we should, we should, unless you want to continue talking about, I mean, I think we should... Yeah, let's talk about the shooter, man.

01:55:08.000 So he was a self-described authoritarian leftist who believed in the Great Replacement.

01:55:14.000 Place him on the political map, wherever you think that makes sense.

01:55:16.000 He claimed he was a populist as well.

01:55:18.000 He also claimed a number of other things.

01:55:20.000 Like what?

01:55:21.000 I can tell you right now.

01:55:22.000 I'm pulling it up.

01:55:24.000 Hold on.

01:55:24.000 Let me grab my... While you're pulling it up, can you tell me the name of the mass shooter from Chicago?

01:55:29.000 What mass shooter from Chicago?

01:55:30.000 The one who killed, uh... From the same weekend?

01:55:34.000 Or are you talking about the one in Milwaukee?

01:55:34.000 Wait, Chicago?

01:55:36.000 Chicago.

01:55:37.000 The 17 people who got shot the day before.

01:55:39.000 No, there wasn't 17 people in Chicago who got shot.

01:55:42.000 No, that was Milwaukee.

01:55:43.000 You're wrong.

01:55:44.000 Yeah, I can.

01:55:44.000 Can you look it up?

01:55:45.000 I actually pulled it up before the show.

01:55:46.000 Sure.

01:55:50.000 Here's a police report from May 14th, Saturday.

01:55:52.000 17 people were shot.

01:55:55.000 Why didn't you know the name of this shooter?

01:55:57.000 I can't see it.

01:55:58.000 I can't see it.

01:55:59.000 Press release, Milwaukee, Friday, May 13, 2022.

01:56:00.000 Oh, Milwaukee!

01:56:01.000 That's what I said!

01:56:02.000 You're right.

01:56:03.000 I was wrong.

01:56:03.000 You got me.

01:56:05.000 I was wrong.

01:56:05.000 I thought it was Chicago.

01:56:06.000 You're right, it's Milwaukee.

01:56:07.000 You're absolutely right.

01:56:08.000 I ate that one.

01:56:09.000 Sorry, man.

01:56:09.000 I saw that video you posted earlier today.

01:56:11.000 You said it wasn't covered.

01:56:12.000 Mainstream media didn't cover it, right?

01:56:14.000 The Chicago one I was thinking of was I think three people got shot.

01:56:17.000 That's my bad.

01:56:18.000 I own that one.

01:56:19.000 Yeah, Chicago was four people who got shot.

01:56:21.000 I confused them.

01:56:24.000 But you said that the mainstream media didn't cover those stories, right?

01:56:28.000 No, that's not what I said.

01:56:29.000 What did you say?

01:56:30.000 I said, what's the name of the shooter from Milwaukee?

01:56:33.000 I want your video earlier today.

01:56:35.000 Why isn't it a national conversation?

01:56:37.000 No, that's not what you said.

01:56:38.000 Can you pull up the video?

01:56:40.000 Not really.

01:56:41.000 You can't pull up your own video?

01:56:45.000 If you want me to go through YouTube and spend a minute to find the source and find the exact minute in the 20-minute segment where I said what you're trying to refer to.

01:56:52.000 You could pull up the subtitles and go right to it.

01:56:55.000 I don't know how to do that.

01:56:56.000 You don't know how to do that?

01:56:56.000 I can tell you right now.

01:56:58.000 We spent time looking up data and stuff.

01:56:58.000 Okay.

01:57:00.000 Tell me what I said.

01:57:01.000 You said that the mainstream media didn't cover it.

01:57:03.000 Okay, I'll apologize and I'll clarify what I meant.

01:57:06.000 Okay.

01:57:06.000 It's not a national conversation.

01:57:08.000 Okay, but you said that same exact thing about every one of the shootings you went through.

01:57:12.000 And every single one, I did a simple Google search of.

01:57:15.000 And not only did I find local media reports, I found it on CNN, NBC News.

01:57:19.000 I'm not arguing that.

01:57:20.000 Okay, good.

01:57:20.000 I'm happy.

01:57:21.000 I pulled up those stories in my video.

01:57:25.000 So, just to clarify, if I was imprecise, I apologize.

01:57:29.000 What I mean to convey is, why are we having a national story about this?

01:57:32.000 I want to be clear, though, about why that matters.

01:57:34.000 Because here, we're doing independent media, right?

01:57:36.000 And the point is that we criticize mainstream media all the time.

01:57:38.000 I mean, I do the same thing.

01:57:40.000 I pull up mainstream media stories and I criticize how things are covered all the time.

01:57:43.000 For example, I'm sure on this show you've covered the string of, you know, thefts, smash and grabs that are happening in, for example, I don't know, San Francisco or something like that.

01:57:53.000 Like, ride aids.

01:57:54.000 You'd probably say that's the reason why Rite-Aids are closing.

01:57:57.000 But, you know, we never cover it, the same fact- Walgreens said they were closing because of that.

01:58:01.000 Right, some places, I'm sure some places- We covered that one time when it announced that they were doing it.

01:58:05.000 Right, right, but- Maybe reference it a couple more times.

01:58:07.000 And also, mainstream media, this is not a Tim Pool issue.

01:58:07.000 Sure, maybe.

01:58:11.000 This is an entire media issue.

01:58:12.000 The mainstream media has covered these stories ad nauseam over and over again.

01:58:18.000 And if you look up the stats when it comes to- I'm sorry, man, I don't mean to interrupt you, but If we want to get at the core of my argument, it's not that the media is not talking about it because I used mainstream news sources in my coverage of it.

01:58:29.000 No, no, no.

01:58:30.000 What I'm bringing up is why it's important that I expect better from you in terms of doing that.

01:58:34.000 No, you made a mistake.

01:58:35.000 You're even admitting you made a mistake.

01:58:36.000 For the Milwaukee thing.

01:58:37.000 Right, right.

01:58:38.000 I know, and I was funny because I was so sure of myself and I was so wrong.

01:58:40.000 Right, right.

01:58:41.000 It happens.

01:58:42.000 It happens to everybody.

01:58:44.000 But I'm bringing up what you said earlier in your video today, where you, for each story, said that the mainstream media just didn't cover these things.

01:58:52.000 So I'm going to clarify that.

01:58:52.000 Right, right.

01:58:55.000 I know you're clarifying that.

01:58:56.000 I'm just bringing up why I think that's important.

01:58:58.000 Because as an independent media outlet, your viewers are coming to you for news that they think is of higher quality than what they find in the mainstream, correct?

01:59:08.000 That's the goal, right?

01:59:10.000 It's the same for me, it's the same for every other show that I watch on YouTube.

01:59:13.000 It would help you if you read the law the Democrats are trying to pass if you're going to do that.

01:59:16.000 What are you talking about?

01:59:17.000 Well, how is it that I read the law the Democrats tried to pass and you didn't?

01:59:20.000 What are you talking about right now?

01:59:22.000 Let's focus on what we're talking about right now.

01:59:25.000 You're saying we're striving for a higher standard in news.

01:59:27.000 Right.

01:59:28.000 You're mischaracterizing my intention to make an argument I didn't make.

01:59:32.000 I'm telling you why I think it's important that I point it out.

01:59:32.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:59:36.000 Why are you taking it like an attack?

01:59:36.000 That's all.

01:59:38.000 I'm not attacking you at all.

01:59:39.000 I'm talking to your viewers about why that's important that I did that.

01:59:42.000 I think independent media should be held up to a higher standard of you and I, even on my own show.

01:59:48.000 Are going to criticize mainstream media's failures.

01:59:51.000 I think a lot of times we just don't do that.

01:59:53.000 I think a lot of times media, and I've criticized the left on this too, we often say, oh no, we're just independent media, it happens, I made a mistake, whatever.

02:00:02.000 No, if this was CNN who made that mistake you made, or a mistake that I made on my show, I would not just go, oh, Anderson Cooper apologized, it's no big deal.

02:00:11.000 No, we would expect them to do better and we'd hold them accountable to that mistake.

02:00:15.000 What would you expect them to do?

02:00:16.000 What do you mean?

02:00:17.000 Like if CNN got a story wrong.

02:00:18.000 Well, what would you expect them to do?

02:00:20.000 Apologize.

02:00:21.000 Apologize, right?

02:00:22.000 Daily Beast.

02:00:22.000 Correct it, right?

02:00:23.000 Correct it, right?

02:00:24.000 Like the Daily Beast.

02:00:25.000 Correct.

02:00:25.000 Let's use them as an example.

02:00:26.000 But see, here's the thing.

02:00:27.000 We're now two hours into this live show.

02:00:29.000 And we were supposed to do a members-only show.

02:00:29.000 Two hours in.

02:00:31.000 And raid Super Chats.

02:00:32.000 I mean, I don't know.

02:00:33.000 But you just deleted them all.

02:00:34.000 I'm here all night.

02:00:36.000 I think you should probably make a video and let people know about that, because they're not going to catch it two hours in.

02:00:41.000 Know about what?

02:00:41.000 That the mainstream media did, in fact, actually cover those shootings.

02:00:45.000 So, I think you should make a video pointing out that you haphazardly labeled a public figure a QAnon supporter, even though he wasn't, and then we're searching for evidence of it.

02:00:52.000 I admit it to that.

02:00:59.000 He can't.

02:01:00.000 So are you going to make a video saying this guy whose name I besmirched on air by characterizing

02:01:03.000 him as having views he didn't have?

02:01:04.000 Sure, of course.

02:01:05.000 Are you going to look into all of James O'Keefe's work and make sure that you didn't incorrectly

02:01:10.000 label him something?

02:01:11.000 Well, I specifically mentioned that case that he settled and admitted what he did wrong

02:01:16.000 and even apologized for the harm he caused the woman.

02:01:18.000 That's all I did.

02:01:19.000 Yeah.

02:01:20.000 I think you mentioned another one, the Minnesota one.

02:01:23.000 Oh, all I said was that wasn't true.

02:01:26.000 The way he laid out?

02:01:28.000 You should pull up a source and confirm that.

02:01:29.000 Oh, I did.

02:01:30.000 I told you that what he was doing was completely legal.

02:01:32.000 You didn't pull up a source, though.

02:01:33.000 So here's my point, right?

02:01:35.000 I agree we all make mistakes and nobody's perfect.

02:01:38.000 I wonder why it is that nobody read the law that the Democrats just tried to pass.

02:01:44.000 Like, how come you and Hassan didn't read it?

02:01:47.000 Did Hassan read it?

02:01:48.000 I'm assuming he didn't.

02:01:49.000 Maybe he did.

02:01:51.000 What law are you talking about?

02:01:53.000 That didn't pass.

02:01:53.000 Was it HB 375?

02:01:56.000 The one we talked about before, that didn't pass.

02:01:59.000 Why didn't you read it when they were proposing it?

02:02:01.000 Well, I haven't covered it.

02:02:01.000 3755.

02:02:04.000 I don't do a daily show like you do.

02:02:05.000 I don't cover every minutiae of the news.

02:02:07.000 This bill was introduced in, when was it introduced?

02:02:10.000 February.

02:02:11.000 I just didn't cover it.

02:02:12.000 It wasn't a topic of my show.

02:02:12.000 It wasn't on my show.

02:02:15.000 So, the issue of Roe v. Wade and the codification of abortion isn't a subject that you cover?

02:02:21.000 I don't cover every single issue on my show.

02:02:22.000 No, in fact, my show actually, my personal show, maybe Sam covered on the majority report, if we're talking about mine.

02:02:28.000 Do you think that in order to have, I'm sorry, it was September of 2021.

02:02:30.000 I don't run, I don't run a daily show that talks about politics in general.

02:02:34.000 It's totally cool if you're not familiar with what I do on my show.

02:02:36.000 On my show, I specifically cover what's going on in the world of right-wing media conspiracy theories from a leftist perspective.

02:02:44.000 Yeah.

02:02:44.000 And reactionary groups.

02:02:45.000 But here's my point.

02:02:47.000 So this is not a topic I would usually cover on my show.

02:02:50.000 Then why opine on it?

02:02:51.000 Because you invited me on the show to talk about it.

02:02:53.000 I know but like wouldn't your answers be like, you know, I didn't read the bill.

02:02:56.000 I told you if I had you read it to me multiple times and once you explained it to me, then I told you my personal opinion.

02:03:01.000 I'm gonna tell you my opinion before you write it to me.

02:03:03.000 Noted and accepted.

02:03:07.000 Where, what point were we off on then?

02:03:09.000 Let's get back on, let's get back on, because I did do a tangent, I did, you know, I pulled a tin pool and went on a tangent.

02:03:15.000 Could we talk about, let's go back to the shooting.

02:03:17.000 I'll address the news thing.

02:03:19.000 Go ahead.

02:03:19.000 My point is, Whenever there's an extremist, like the Rolling Stone says, the Buffalo shooter isn't a lone wolf, he's a mainstream Republican, which is just not true.

02:03:30.000 He may have some, he may share ideas, but the joke is always like, you know who had a dog?

02:03:36.000 Hitler had a dog, you know, things like that.

02:03:38.000 This guy believed in the Great Replacement, which Tucker Carlson has also talked about and referenced.

02:03:45.000 I wouldn't call Great Replacement mainstream Republican as a point to say that anyone who holds that view is a mainstream Republican.

02:03:56.000 So the issue with the Rolling Stone is that they said he is, and it's because of like a single thing.

02:04:01.000 But the issue is there's also many left-wing personalities, identitarians, who have expressed similar ideas.

02:04:07.000 This guy also claimed in his manifesto that he was authoritarian left.

02:04:11.000 I don't think we can take his word for it. 1.00

02:04:12.000 I think the dude's a psychopath. 0.99

02:04:14.000 I think he's also extremely racist and extremely dangerous. 0.99

02:04:18.000 The issue I see with these things is, why did this story become the national conversation?

02:04:24.000 It's political.

02:04:26.000 The other mass shootings don't become national conversation because they're not political.

02:04:28.000 Identitarianism.

02:04:29.000 I agree with you.

02:04:29.000 Identitarianism was a huge component.

02:04:30.000 the shooter streamed his shooting on Twitch and released a long manifesto explaining a number of

02:04:37.000 reasons why he claims he did what he did. I think if any of the other... Identitarianism.

02:04:42.000 I think if any... No, that's just basic facts in terms of we know more about...

02:04:45.000 Right, I agree with you. I'm saying identitarianism was a huge component. He's a racist.

02:04:48.000 That's part of it, but I would also just state just even outside of that, just literally we know 0.83

02:04:55.000 the clear motives of this shooter, which maybe we do... We know the...

02:04:58.000 I don't think... We know the motives of the shootings in Chicago we don't talk about.

02:05:01.000 I mean, no, the ones you specifically brought up. I mean, we know the motives of those shootings.

02:05:06.000 Yeah, we do.

02:05:06.000 That specific shooting?

02:05:08.000 I said the shootings in Chicago.

02:05:10.000 But we're not talking about the aggregate of shootings.

02:05:14.000 We're talking about specific shootings.

02:05:15.000 There's mass shootings every weekend in Chicago.

02:05:17.000 Sure.

02:05:20.000 So this one's obviously my personal bias being from the city.

02:05:24.000 And I feel that the corporate press and the modern mainstream left is racist.

02:05:30.000 Obviously everybody accuse each other of being racist, but I think the core racism here is the issues surrounding the

02:05:34.000 black community and gun violence in Chicago that is just completely ignored every step of the way.

02:05:39.000 And you can have, you know, a mass shooting curfew was enacted because minors were, you know, involved in a shootout.

02:05:45.000 And there's, it's of course covered in local media and you can find this all over the news.

02:05:49.000 I think there is a curfew being enacted.

02:05:51.000 Yeah, they did.

02:05:52.000 For minors, I'm wondering why the national story is always... I'm not really wondering, I get it.

02:05:58.000 It's political.

02:05:58.000 And again, the Twitch thing, for sure, that makes it huge.

02:06:02.000 My issue is, I don't like, for this story, how the guy... You've got people on the right picking up his left-wing things, and people on the left picking up his right-wing things, and they're both just pointing at each other.

02:06:12.000 If this guy, I'm willing to bet, his goal was to foment civil war.

02:06:16.000 And that's why you get these weird manifestos.

02:06:18.000 It's why they do it.

02:06:19.000 He streamed on Twitch, which is a more left-wing platform.

02:06:22.000 Like, the goal was to put it in the face of people and then make points that either side could grab, just like with Christchurch. 0.66

02:06:29.000 These are psychopaths, I think, who want to just watch the world burn.

02:06:33.000 My issue is I wish we would have more conversations at a national level that were about the other shootings.

02:06:42.000 You know what I mean?

02:06:43.000 I think there are issues.

02:06:44.000 That's the point I was making in my video.

02:06:47.000 So if it came off like I was saying the media is not covering it.

02:06:49.000 What I mean to say when I say the media is big mainstream outlets have not set a news cycle around the story like they did with this one.

02:06:59.000 I mean, right now, sure.

02:07:00.000 Yeah.

02:07:01.000 So I think that's a failing of the media, and it's why, you know, people were tweeting at me like, why aren't you talking about Buffalo?

02:07:07.000 People have been tweeting me all weekend, and I'm like, I'm not talking about Milwaukee either.

02:07:10.000 Also, the media basically reacts with coverage based on what an audience is interested in.

02:07:18.000 Like if there was massive interest in one of those stories that they covered, again, they all covered those stories that you brought up and said that there was no coverage of.

02:07:25.000 But it's like local outlets and like corporate press.

02:07:27.000 No, no, no.

02:07:27.000 We're talking about CNN and NBC News, CBS News, ABC News.

02:07:32.000 I saw them all.

02:07:33.000 Those are the most mainstream.

02:07:34.000 Are the primetime guys, they're not doing news cycle segments on this?

02:07:37.000 Primetime guys?

02:07:38.000 You're talking about cable news?

02:07:39.000 Well, you said CNN, so I'm referencing that.

02:07:41.000 No, I'm talking about CNN, like cnn.com.

02:07:43.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:07:43.000 News websites do the story.

02:07:44.000 So why is it that we don't have a national conversation around these other instances?

02:07:48.000 I mean, I'm pretty sure they probably have done.

02:07:50.000 If you look at their history, I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one special on the issue.

02:07:55.000 I think the issue is actually conservatives are all reactive.

02:07:59.000 You know, so they wait for something to come out and they start quote tweeting people and it's just like, Kyle Rittenhouse was trending and it's just like, Because people on the left started saying it, then the right started responding to it, and that's how you get certain stories being elevated.

02:08:11.000 Sure, OK.

02:08:11.000 But let's talk about... Oh, you mentioned what he classified his identity as, right?

02:08:17.000 Yeah, he said he was an off-left populist or something.

02:08:20.000 Former communist.

02:08:21.000 Right, former, right.

02:08:23.000 But still in the left quadrant.

02:08:25.000 Still in the left— I'm not going to take his word for it, mind you.

02:08:27.000 Well, that's the thing, right?

02:08:28.000 You can't take his word for it.

02:08:29.000 But in your video, I mean, you constantly hedged back and forth on he definitively said that, but— And the media lied about it, is my point.

02:08:36.000 Like, when they say he's a Republican and the dude says he's not, you can't just say he's the other guy!

02:08:41.000 Well, what left-wing politicians are advocating for anything that he's mentioned in terms of immigration or anything like that?

02:08:50.000 Do you mean like general identitarianism?

02:08:53.000 No, no, no.

02:08:54.000 I'm talking about specifically what this guy said, the reason why he did what he did.

02:08:59.000 So do you know, do you know why?

02:09:01.000 So first, I think the obvious answer is none.

02:09:04.000 Well, I mean, technically the answer is all of them.

02:09:07.000 His motivation is that... Well, it's two different answers.

02:09:09.000 Right.

02:09:10.000 So I will clarify.

02:09:11.000 Sure.

02:09:12.000 When you have like all the presidential candidates on the Democrat stage raising their hands saying moratorium on border crossings and, you know, free health care for non-citizens, That is policies put forth that motivate him to do the things he's doing. 0.57

02:09:22.000 So he claims.

02:09:23.000 Not that I believe him, right? 1.00

02:09:24.000 This guy's clearly a lunatic. 0.96

02:09:26.000 But yeah, so the policies that are being acted by Democrats are the ones he takes issue with. 0.99

02:09:31.000 Sure.

02:09:32.000 Yeah.

02:09:32.000 Okay.

02:09:33.000 So, but we should not kowtow to a madman's beliefs and rantings based on what he wants to see and put that burden on other people.

02:09:44.000 Right.

02:09:44.000 No, I don't think we would.

02:09:45.000 Yeah, we'd lock the guy up.

02:09:46.000 Good.

02:09:47.000 Yeah.

02:09:47.000 Throw away the key.

02:09:48.000 He said in his manifesto also that he, you can call me an ethno-nationalist.

02:09:54.000 He said that if you called him a neo-Nazi, that would be fine. 1.00

02:09:57.000 And another area he said he mocked leftists and said, you're a bigot, racist, xenophobe, Nazi, fascist, as if we're calling him that. 0.99

02:10:05.000 And he said, OK, and? 0.99

02:10:08.000 And, you know, he also... He's an identitarian.

02:10:10.000 He also, when it comes to leftism, leftism results in a degenerate, hateful society to non-whites. 0.93

02:10:17.000 He's an identitarian. 0.97

02:10:19.000 Oh wait, I'm sorry. 0.91

02:10:20.000 Leftism results in a degenerate, hateful society, period. 0.98

02:10:23.000 And then he continues, and then he went on for something else where it said, to non-whites on white lands, leave while you still can. 0.97

02:10:28.000 Those were two separate sentences. 0.93

02:10:29.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.97

02:10:29.000 First of all, he's a dangerous psychopath who should be locked up. 0.97

02:10:33.000 You know, how we deal with these, preventing them in the future is a serious challenge our country is supposed to try to have.

02:10:39.000 But here's my point.

02:10:40.000 Go ahead, yeah.

02:10:41.000 We're a fairly anti-identitarian show. 0.88

02:10:43.000 I mean, like, we're overtly anti-identitarian.

02:10:45.000 That's like the core, like one of the core elements.

02:10:48.000 And so this is why I oppose the rise in identitarianism from the Democrats and in schools and all that stuff.

02:10:55.000 Because when you tell racial groups to form groups based on race, you get white identitarianism along with black identitarianism. 0.97

02:11:02.000 And then you get these psychopaths. 0.99

02:11:05.000 Okay.

02:11:06.000 Like, this has been the concern that, you know, people like me and, like, Carl Benjamin, other anti-identitarian... Carl Benjamin?

02:11:12.000 He's, like, staunchly anti-identitarian.

02:11:15.000 So if you want to talk about those who are speaking out against it, there was a meme back in, I think it was, like, 2016 or even sooner, where it was talking about how what we referred to back then as, like, intersectionality, was advocating for racial groups to join together.

02:11:29.000 The only natural conclusion would be white racial groups agreeing, and we don't want that. 0.87

02:11:33.000 We don't want Majoritarian-based racial violence. 0.91

02:11:37.000 We don't want racial violence at all.

02:11:38.000 So what we need to encourage is, you know, integration and diversity.

02:11:42.000 But when you have, like, non-POC POC events, when you have, like, Seattle Library doing DEI, like, non-POC and POC different rooms for libraries, you are telling all of the white people to go into a room. 0.72

02:11:56.000 You actually had, in the Sacramento Unified School District, they encouraged kids to form white racial identity groups.

02:12:02.000 Are you arguing that a library having a people of color space is something that we shouldn't do because of something like this? 1.00

02:12:13.000 Let me ask you, to answer your question.

02:12:14.000 Sure.

02:12:15.000 If you tell non-white people to go in one room, who goes into the other room? 0.98

02:12:23.000 Wait, say this again.

02:12:24.000 100 people walk to a library of all different races.

02:12:27.000 One room says POC, one room says non-POC.

02:12:31.000 All of the people who are people of color go into that room.

02:12:36.000 What is the race of the people that all gather together in the other room?

02:12:41.000 Sure, you're going to say that it's white, correct?

02:12:43.000 I'm not going to say that's what it is, isn't it?

02:12:44.000 Sure.

02:12:45.000 So when you have a room that says non-POC and POC, you're telling all the white people to go into a room together. 0.72

02:12:52.000 What do you think's going to happen when you get a bunch of white people together, start telling them that they're oppressors?

02:12:57.000 Wait, who's calling anyone an oppressor?

02:12:59.000 You're talking about something that's happening in a library.

02:13:01.000 That's not happening in everyday life.

02:13:03.000 We're not walking through the world doing this.

02:13:06.000 I'm confused as to what your anecdote here is supposed to represent in a broader sense.

02:13:12.000 Let me see if I can find the exact source.

02:13:14.000 So it's happening all over the place.

02:13:15.000 It's happened in Dearborn.

02:13:16.000 It's happened in Seattle.

02:13:17.000 It's happened in Florida.

02:13:20.000 I think Colin Wright's got it if I pull up on Twitter.

02:13:23.000 It's happened in Sacramento to an extreme degree.

02:13:26.000 White students should form white racial affinity groups?

02:13:29.000 groups.

02:13:30.000 This was from the anti-racist classroom, Sacramento City Unified School District, that argued

02:13:35.000 that white students should form white racial affinity groups.

02:13:38.000 Would you agree with that?

02:13:39.000 White students should form white racial affinity groups?

02:13:42.000 Yeah.

02:13:43.000 No.

02:13:44.000 So this is anti-racism, though?

02:13:46.000 I mean, I don't agree with that.

02:13:49.000 So I think then we agree.

02:13:52.000 My concern is that... What is a white racial affinity group?

02:13:56.000 They tell all the white kids to go together, and let me read it for you. 0.73

02:13:59.000 Make sure we get the full context.

02:14:01.000 Racial affinity groups offer a structure of inquiry and can address many needs.

02:14:04.000 They support us in exploring what has been forbidden, forgotten, and unhealed.

02:14:07.000 For example, in racial affinity groups, white people can discover together their group identity.

02:14:12.000 They can cultivate racial solidarity and compassion and support each other in sitting with the discomfort, confusion, and numbness that often accompany white racial awakening.

02:14:22.000 They can also discern white privilege and its impact without the aid of or dependence on people of color.

02:14:29.000 White people who have formed racial affinity groups report that they recognize their collective commonality and shared history, as well as the impact that their privilege has had on other races and on each racial affinity group member.

02:14:42.000 Sure.

02:14:42.000 And then it seems like if that's the case, then they would then go out into society and treat people of color in a way that they weren't treated before.

02:14:51.000 Treat them better.

02:14:52.000 Do you think that's what white people talk about when they talk about their shared history?

02:14:55.000 How to treat people better?

02:14:56.000 Or do you think they talk about— If they're getting together in an anti-racist group, then yeah, I do.

02:15:01.000 So if you took a bunch of white people and put them- Because I could tell you that the shooter's not going to an anti-racist affinity group.

02:15:06.000 So this is anti-racist classroom, a program for schools.

02:15:10.000 They're not going to the students and saying, they're saying, we're having white racial affinity groups.

02:15:15.000 When you're not just letting them sit down and start talking about white power, you're sitting them down and you're guiding a discussion into what white privilege is.

02:15:23.000 And what do you think happens when a group of young white kids sit down and talk about white history?

02:15:27.000 What do you think they say to each other?

02:15:29.000 What do you mean?

02:15:29.000 They talk about what sort of... Do you think they say things like, man, we're awful?

02:15:33.000 Or do you think they say things like, Leif Erikson's awesome?

02:15:36.000 They probably don't say either of those things.

02:15:39.000 Those are just general references.

02:15:40.000 But I mean, those are the two ones you gave me.

02:15:43.000 Right, right, right.

02:15:43.000 My point is, do you think they're speaking positively or negatively about their history?

02:15:47.000 Neither.

02:15:47.000 They're just discussing it.

02:15:48.000 Why does it have to be positive or negative?

02:15:50.000 Are they talking about slavery?

02:15:51.000 Are they talking about colonization?

02:15:53.000 I'm talking about slavery or colonization.

02:15:55.000 What are they talking about, do you think?

02:15:57.000 Well, if this is in a classroom, it's being guided by a teacher, correct?

02:16:01.000 A white racial affinity group.

02:16:02.000 I don't know if it actually says the teacher would be discussing it.

02:16:05.000 I think it's telling the kids to form a group of people.

02:16:09.000 It says they can cultivate.

02:16:10.000 I would assume it's unlead.

02:16:12.000 You can't assume that.

02:16:13.000 We have to know.

02:16:15.000 I also don't think that if you get a whole bunch of white kids together, they start talking about Leif Erikson.

02:16:19.000 I'm not saying they're literally talking about Leif Erikson.

02:16:24.000 Don't be obtuse.

02:16:25.000 Without any sort of guidance, they're probably not talking about anything political at all.

02:16:30.000 They're probably talking about what's going on in school.

02:16:32.000 They're probably talking about what happened at the cafeteria or whatever.

02:16:35.000 Do you think they're wondering why it is they've been separated from the other kids of different races?

02:16:39.000 Probably not, because they would explain to them what the purpose of the anti-racist classroom group is.

02:16:44.000 Do you think any of these kids have friends who are not white?

02:16:47.000 Probably, yeah.

02:16:48.000 What do you think they ask about why they can't sit with their friends in the affinity group?

02:16:52.000 It's like a, what, a 45-minute class or a 30-minute class, whatever?

02:16:55.000 It's not like they're not being segregated for life.

02:16:58.000 It's a project.

02:16:59.000 It's a class.

02:16:59.000 So would you agree with racial segregation in schools in some capacity?

02:17:02.000 No, that's not what this is.

02:17:03.000 But if only white kids are in this group and other kids aren't allowed in it, would that be racial segregation?

02:17:08.000 This is a specific class to talk about white privilege.

02:17:10.000 Right, so in some circumstances, would you allow for only white people to be in the classroom?

02:17:14.000 That's not what this is.

02:17:15.000 Okay, okay, hold on.

02:17:16.000 This is a white racial affinity group, as it says, right?

02:17:19.000 It says that it's an anti-racist classroom.

02:17:22.000 I can't read it.

02:17:22.000 It's too far from me.

02:17:23.000 Unfortunately, I don't have the computer in front of me.

02:17:26.000 So white people can discover their group identity. 0.55

02:17:30.000 In the context, it specifically mentions multiple times white privilege.

02:17:36.000 Sure, sure, sure, sure.

02:17:37.000 I'm not disagreeing.

02:17:38.000 I mean, you know what white privilege is, right?

02:17:40.000 Right, right.

02:17:41.000 So you agree with racial segregation?

02:17:42.000 No, that's not what this is.

02:17:43.000 Okay, wait, hold on.

02:17:44.000 It says without the dependence on people of color.

02:17:46.000 I know what you're trying to do.

02:17:47.000 No, no, no, I'm not trying to do anything.

02:17:49.000 You're trying to do something.

02:17:51.000 What am I trying to do?

02:17:51.000 The fact remains that a school created a program where only white kids would be allowed and you're okay with it.

02:17:55.000 Now if you don't have the balls to say you're okay with it, fine, don't say it, but stop playing games. 0.98

02:18:00.000 Are you okay when a teacher tells the boys to line up on one side of the classroom and girls to line up on the other side of the classroom? 0.99

02:18:06.000 Yes, why wouldn't I be?

02:18:07.000 Of course, so why wouldn't you be okay with this?

02:18:09.000 Racism!

02:18:10.000 It's not racism.

02:18:11.000 The other thing isn't sexism.

02:18:14.000 Because we tell boys and girls to use different bathrooms, that's fine. 0.97

02:18:17.000 It would not be fine to tell black kids and white kids to use different bathrooms. 0.90

02:18:20.000 It's not a fair comparison.

02:18:21.000 But that's not what we're doing here.

02:18:22.000 We're not asking black kids or white kids to use separate bathrooms.

02:18:24.000 No, but your point, you're trying to make it sound as if gender, as if the difference

02:18:28.000 between the sexes is comparable to the differences between racial groups.

02:18:31.000 Telling a bunch of white kids to get together without other kids of other races is racist, and I'm not for it, I'm not for it.

02:18:35.000 But they're specifically discussing white privilege and anti-racism.

02:18:38.000 I don't care what they're discussing.

02:18:38.000 I don't think you should be allowed in schools to say, whites only.

02:18:41.000 I think that's wrong.

02:18:41.000 I don't care what the reason is.

02:18:42.000 No one's saying that though, you just jumped to something completely different.

02:18:44.000 Bro, it literally says, without the aid of people of color, What do you think that means?

02:18:50.000 In Seattle, they said, non-POC only.

02:18:53.000 What do you think that means?

02:18:54.000 In California, they had a proposition to remove their civil rights provision from their own constitution, allowing racial segregation.

02:19:01.000 You're bringing up other things that are completely different now.

02:19:04.000 We're talking about this one specific class that I don't find a problem with, to be quite honest.

02:19:09.000 Okay, so only white kids are allowed, right? 0.88

02:19:12.000 In the context of this... Yes, only white kids are allowed. 0.75

02:19:15.000 I think it's fine.

02:19:15.000 An anti-race discussion would... That's fine!

02:19:17.000 We're not arguing, you're agreeing.

02:19:19.000 And I'm assuming that in another classroom, people of color are sharing their shared experiences too, as people of color.

02:19:24.000 What is segregation?

02:19:26.000 But we don't have to go back into segregation, we're just talking about this one specific classroom.

02:19:30.000 I'm against segregation in terms of a school for whites and a school for blacks, but in terms of this one specific class.

02:19:38.000 I think it's fine.

02:19:39.000 I think it's fine.

02:19:39.000 If you don't like it, that's fine too.

02:19:41.000 I think this is a really unproductive discussion.

02:19:44.000 We've had both of our opinions.

02:19:45.000 We're both on the record.

02:19:46.000 We're both probably—I'm assuming you are—we're both against segregation in terms of a school for blacks and a school for whites.

02:19:55.000 I am under the impression that this is, from what you're telling me, an anti-racist class— a one-time class discussion on white privilege, and I think it's fine.

02:20:04.000 It's that simple.

02:20:05.000 I don't think we need to opine on this more.

02:20:06.000 If you do, I don't know what else to say about it, to be quite frank.

02:20:09.000 I'm giving you exactly how I feel.

02:20:11.000 That's what you want, right?

02:20:12.000 I'm telling you how I feel.

02:20:14.000 Let me see if I can pull up the Seattle one.

02:20:19.000 It's hard to get the precise language.

02:20:22.000 Well, yeah, the virtual cafes at Dearborn, Michigan was a big story.

02:20:27.000 Reaffirming our commitments.

02:20:28.000 Did you hear the story when they said that they were having digital chat rooms and they were for white and non-white only?

02:20:34.000 I'm not familiar with this story.

02:20:35.000 They call it non-POC and POC only.

02:20:37.000 See, I think that's wrong.

02:20:39.000 And what's your racial background?

02:20:41.000 My racial background?

02:20:42.000 I'm white.

02:20:43.000 I know you are mixed race, yeah.

02:20:44.000 So for me, I think my perspective comes from... You're multiracial, yeah.

02:20:48.000 I come from a family that dealt with segregation.

02:20:50.000 And they told me exactly what you're agreeing with is exactly what they were scared of.

02:20:53.000 And so when I'm like desperately being like, this is crazy, you're like, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine.

02:20:57.000 And then I'm like looking back at the stories from my grandpa and my parents and they're like, this is the scariest thing we've seen in a long time.

02:21:03.000 And then you just don't care.

02:21:06.000 I just said specifically to talk about white privilege and anti-racism.

02:21:14.000 I think in that context it's fine.

02:21:15.000 That specific context.

02:21:18.000 I think we disagree on that.

02:21:19.000 It's the same argument they made and the same argument they make today.

02:21:23.000 Wait, so schools were segregated back in like the 50s because they were separating— Separate but equal.

02:21:28.000 They were separating the whites to talk about white privilege and anti-racism action.

02:21:32.000 They were justifying the separation on some kind of physical or academic terms or like cultural terms, like there was a justification for why it was okay this time.

02:21:41.000 But it was never OK.

02:21:43.000 It was never OK to say, one place for one race. 0.96

02:21:45.000 It was never OK.

02:21:47.000 Right.

02:21:47.000 It's still not OK today.

02:21:47.000 That's not what this is.

02:21:48.000 It's just a simple class to discuss this issue.

02:21:50.000 I don't see the problem with it, quite honestly.

02:21:53.000 Is it because you have white privilege?

02:21:55.000 Oh, yes, of course I do.

02:21:56.000 So you're wrong.

02:21:57.000 And you, as a white man, have white privilege and don't understand why it's bad to tell.

02:22:01.000 No, no, no.

02:22:01.000 I don't think that's what white privilege is.

02:22:03.000 I actually have a problem with the word privilege because I think for people, it seems like you're one of them.

02:22:08.000 For a lot of people, they view that word privilege as something that's being looked at them negatively.

02:22:15.000 And it's just not.

02:22:16.000 It's just not.

02:22:17.000 I view white privilege as there are things in my life Here's an even better way of putting it. 0.95

02:22:23.000 If you are a white person and everything has gone wrong for you in terms of, you know, you're homeless and you can't get a job and you could be the most unluckiest person on the face of the planet, it likely did not happen to you because you were white. 0.98

02:22:38.000 That's all it is. 0.99

02:22:40.000 Whereas if you see a black homeless person who can't get a job, Can't. 1.00

02:22:46.000 Things have happened in their life.

02:22:47.000 They've lost their home. 0.93

02:22:49.000 There's a good chance that their race, being black, Had part to do in that. 1.00

02:22:55.000 Had part to do in their situation. 0.91

02:22:57.000 That's all that is.

02:22:58.000 It's not a positive or negative.

02:22:59.000 And if you understand that, if you understand that there are certain things that have not happened to you because you're white, then you understand what black people or, you know, Latino people or Asian Americans go through that you just haven't had to go through.

02:23:14.000 It's not a negative or positive.

02:23:15.000 It's just understanding how other people go through life.

02:23:18.000 That's all it is.

02:23:19.000 It's not a negative thing to understand you have white privilege.

02:23:23.000 We're gonna jump to the superchats that weren't deleted.

02:23:25.000 I apologize to everybody.

02:23:27.000 I don't know why.

02:23:29.000 We've had way more superchats than this in the past, but it just all of a sudden went, and they were gone.

02:23:33.000 But my attitude... I'll give you one last thought on like.

02:23:36.000 But we also didn't talk about the shooting, though.

02:23:40.000 We just didn't talk about it.

02:23:42.000 Let's do that for the member segment.

02:23:43.000 I know we're making everybody stay a little bit late, but we'll get that one up.

02:23:46.000 I feel like that's important stuff.

02:23:48.000 I know, but we're half an hour over already.

02:23:53.000 The last thing I want to say is, I feel like when you have a school that is predominantly run by wealthy elites, Sacramento, San Francisco tends to be, California I think is overwhelmingly white.

02:24:07.000 And they create a classroom where they say, come on, all the white kids are going to come in and we're going to talk about privilege.

02:24:12.000 And they talk about how much privileged they are and the things they have over other races.

02:24:17.000 I think the likely outcome is going to be a bunch of white kids hearing that they have better things, that they've done better, that through their history they've achieved or taken more than other races. 0.65

02:24:28.000 What would they say?

02:24:29.000 I mean, that sounds like what they're going to tell the kids.

02:24:30.000 I mean, I think someone should talk to these kids who partook in this class and see what they learned.

02:24:35.000 I mean, that's I mean, we're just I mean, I'm not saying what they learned in there.

02:24:39.000 I'm just going by what the class says.

02:24:40.000 You're pontificating about what they possibly took out of it.

02:24:44.000 I haven't done any of that.

02:24:45.000 Well, I just think that if you take a bunch of white people and tell them to go to a room by themselves to talk about privilege, they're not going to have a negative conversation about themselves.

02:24:52.000 Like, if I asked a bunch of... I'm going to seriously... Let me ask you.

02:24:55.000 I'm going to seriously... I mean, again, I can't... This is me pontificating here.

02:24:58.000 I'm going to assume that if you tell kids to do that sort of thing in a class, that there is a teacher or some sort of, I don't know, anti-racist advocate, someone leading the class and helping these children along in taking part in this activity.

02:25:12.000 That's what I'm going to assume.

02:25:14.000 We should find out.

02:25:15.000 We should contact the school and find out how this went, ask if we could talk to We could send some questions that the children, the kids, how old are these kids?

02:25:25.000 It's a great school, so kindergarten through to eighth.

02:25:27.000 Maybe have them answer what they learned.

02:25:29.000 Just the paper, just a little.

02:25:30.000 What if I did like an event and it was called like Leftist Affinity?

02:25:37.000 And it was to have a conversation around all of the horrible things that leftists had done throughout the past several hundred years and to understand their privilege.

02:25:44.000 Do you think if I brought in a bunch of... You didn't listen to anything that I just said about white privilege, though. 0.60

02:25:48.000 It's not that.

02:25:49.000 That's not what it is at all.

02:25:50.000 Okay.

02:25:51.000 So, do you think that if I took a bunch of people of any group and put them in a room, they would talk critically about themselves or talk positively about themselves?

02:26:00.000 I mean, four of us are in here right now, right?

02:26:03.000 And we're just having a regular conversation, and... And clearly I will not accept, you know, like, I'm like, this is what I know to be true, this is what's right.

02:26:12.000 You say the same thing, Seamus says the same thing.

02:26:14.000 So my attitude is, and I don't want to go in circles, so we'll go to Super Chats, and I'll give you, you know, I don't want to take the final word.

02:26:20.000 But my point is, I think if you try to do your best and tell a bunch of white people to keep forming groups or to have rooms that are only for white people, like Dearborn did, like they did in the library, I think it was in Seattle, like the school's doing, like we've seen in a bunch of other states, like in Atlanta they did it. 0.58

02:26:35.000 The principal took the black kids out.

02:26:37.000 You're telling people to segregate. 0.90

02:26:40.000 Whether it's harsh segregation or not, you're making the problem worse and you'll end up with deep racists.

02:26:46.000 We should find out what these things actually do.

02:26:49.000 We should actually do a legitimate study, ask these students who took part in this, whether first, second, third, high school.

02:26:57.000 We should ask them what they got out of these sort of courses, what they got out of this anti-racist classroom.

02:27:01.000 I think that'd be very interesting to find out.

02:27:03.000 I think we should encourage people of all races to get together and have a conversation with each other.

02:27:06.000 But let's wait and see.

02:27:07.000 But what if, what if, what if these kids answer and they say this was a very, the white kids and the people of color, they both come out and said, this was a very positive thing we went through and it actually made our relationship with our, you know, the white kids say our relationship with our black friends is better, black kids say their relationship with their white friends are better.

02:27:25.000 What if that was what they found and got out of this?

02:27:27.000 What would you, you know, what would you think?

02:27:29.000 So this is what I was told it was like pre-1964.

02:27:32.000 that Plessy v. Ferguson, like Derrick Bell's argument, that Derrick Bell, the critical race theorist argues,

02:27:37.000 Plessy v. Ferguson was correct when it clearly wasn't.

02:27:40.000 And so you actually had people arguing everybody was better off.

02:27:42.000 Critical race theorists have argued that before the end of segregation,

02:27:46.000 the black community had its own economy.

02:27:48.000 And by ending segregation, it forced them under the white economy, 0.51

02:27:52.000 which gave the white people power over them. 0.71

02:27:54.000 So those are the kind of conversations they had in the past as to why they-

02:27:57.000 But segregation didn't make the relationship between whites and blacks better.

02:28:01.000 I agree.

02:28:01.000 Yeah.

02:28:02.000 I'm saying, what if the kids... But they were saying it was.

02:28:06.000 No, no, no, no, no.

02:28:07.000 So, read Derrick Bell.

02:28:09.000 Like, read his thoughts on Plessy v. Ferguson.

02:28:10.000 He argued segregation was a good thing. 1.00

02:28:12.000 He's a critical race theorist, along with Kimberly Crenshaw.

02:28:15.000 Let's read... I apologize, man.

02:28:17.000 No, it's... I'm not familiar with that specific thing, but I think if you... We should reach out to this school and we should find out what the kids got out of it.

02:28:27.000 In Ferguson and in Baltimore, they were circulating a letter among Black Lives Matter, which was like the writings of Derrick Bell and advocating for Plessy v. Ferguson and all that stuff.

02:28:41.000 But we'll try and read as many superchats as we have.

02:28:46.000 If you haven't already, smash the like button.

02:28:48.000 We went long because these things happen.

02:28:50.000 We went way long.

02:28:52.000 I'll rate as many superchats as we have, but I apologize.

02:28:55.000 YouTube deleted them.

02:28:56.000 I can try and find a way to get them back.

02:28:59.000 I might be able to find another way to get them back.

02:29:01.000 Give me a second.

02:29:02.000 They're in the monetization section.

02:29:04.000 Right.

02:29:05.000 it out in your YouTube studio.

02:29:07.000 Nice.

02:29:11.000 There.

02:29:14.000 Okay. Can I pull this up somehow?

02:29:19.000 Oh, yeah.

02:29:21.000 Okay, I have them.

02:29:22.000 Sweet.

02:29:24.000 But they're formatted in a very difficult way that we... And there's not all of them.

02:29:28.000 Usually all of them are there.

02:29:30.000 Okay, you're right.

02:29:30.000 You're right.

02:29:30.000 Going back basically forever, right?

02:29:32.000 Yeah.

02:29:32.000 Okay, cool.

02:29:33.000 Hey, guys, good news.

02:29:34.000 Oh, yeah.

02:29:35.000 Thanks, Matt.

02:29:36.000 I'll try to read them.

02:29:38.000 Uh, we'll pull over this tab, which we normally don't pull over, and I will try to read these superchats.

02:29:42.000 I don't know when they came in, though, because, um... Are they reverse chronological order?

02:29:48.000 I think they're coming in reverse chronological order, actually.

02:29:51.000 So, let me see if I can, uh... Uh... I don't know where they're coming in from.

02:29:57.000 It might be from the beginning.

02:29:58.000 Okay, okay, it is reverse chronological order.

02:30:00.000 Reverse chronological order!

02:30:03.000 All right, Anthony says, Citing white privilege is just a way to defer responsibility. 0.99

02:30:08.000 If you're poor and white, it's your fault. 1.00

02:30:10.000 But if you're poor and non-white, it's someone else's fault. 0.99

02:30:14.000 At any point, you know, we'll just keep reading more, I suppose, but unless you have something to say. 0.96

02:30:20.000 All right, let's see.

02:30:20.000 How do you usually do this?

02:30:22.000 We read it and sort of respond.

02:30:24.000 If it's directed at you specifically... Okay, go ahead.

02:30:26.000 What was it again?

02:30:27.000 I'm sorry.

02:30:27.000 This one wasn't directed at you necessarily, I don't think.

02:30:31.000 It's just a general point.

02:30:32.000 Citing white privilege is just a way to defer responsibility. 0.96

02:30:34.000 If you're poor and white, it's your fault, but if you're poor and non-white, it's someone else's fault. 0.97

02:30:38.000 No, no, no. 0.97

02:30:38.000 That's not what it is at all. 0.97

02:30:40.000 It's not what it is at all.

02:30:40.000 It's not your fault.

02:30:41.000 It's just that the odds are that whatever you went through in your life, the reason you are in economic trouble, it's not because you were white. 0.62

02:30:51.000 There were other externalities that caused that issue.

02:30:53.000 That's all.

02:30:54.000 That's all.

02:30:54.000 It's not blaming anybody.

02:30:56.000 All right.

02:30:58.000 Should I read the mean ones?

02:31:00.000 Oh, please.

02:31:01.000 Yeah, of course.

02:31:01.000 Sure.

02:31:01.000 I think that's actually a good number to get in terms of likes, actually.

02:31:04.000 with 1.17 million followers only average about 25k likes on his YouTube videos.

02:31:08.000 Sure.

02:31:09.000 By the way, great conversation.

02:31:10.000 I think that's actually a good number to get in terms of likes actually.

02:31:13.000 I don't think that's a bad number.

02:31:14.000 Yeah, it's a decent number I guess.

02:31:15.000 But also, his show actually started with Gene Garofalo back in 2004 on Air America.

02:31:25.000 It was a radio show, like a terrestrial radio show.

02:31:27.000 And so his audience actually mostly listens to the show via podcast.

02:31:33.000 So those YouTube numbers are mostly from a very specific subsection of his audience.

02:31:38.000 25k is a good amount of likes.

02:31:38.000 It's good, yeah.

02:31:39.000 That's what I get.

02:31:44.000 I don't know.

02:31:45.000 Alright, let's see.

02:31:46.000 I don't know if that's accurate, that's what this person's saying, but um, yeah.

02:31:48.000 Heather Corrin says, he just proved Tim's point.

02:31:51.000 Some people view this negatively, making race center and calling all white people bad.

02:31:56.000 Constantly, which they do, is going to create more racists of all races, not less.

02:31:59.000 No, what I said was the term privilege I think does cause problems.

02:32:02.000 I think we could find a better term for that same exact thing.

02:32:05.000 I think people for some reason hear the word privilege and think,

02:32:08.000 oh, you're privileged. That's not what white privilege means.

02:32:11.000 So, you know, I think maybe to help this conversation along, maybe we should find a different terminology for the exact

02:32:18.000 same thing, which is basically just, if you're white, you need to just 0.74

02:32:22.000 come to the realization that there are things that people of other races, people of

02:32:27.000 color, black, Latino, Asian American,

02:32:31.000 they go through experiences that you don't because you are white.

02:32:35.000 It's not saying you are bad, it's just come to that realization.

02:32:38.000 You can be going through hardships and troubles.

02:32:40.000 There could be things happening to you that are truly horrible and, you know, unfair.

02:32:45.000 But it's not happening to you likely because it's white. 0.56

02:32:49.000 Like, for example, if the same thing was happening to a black person, there is a chance that his race or his or her race did play some role in that hardship or difficulty that they're going through.

02:33:00.000 Can I ask you something?

02:33:01.000 Because you referenced Asian-Americans.

02:33:02.000 Why is it that basically by every economic indicator that's used to demonstrate white privilege exists, Asians outperform white people?

02:33:09.000 Well, it's not always just economics.

02:33:11.000 I mean, are you denying... But I'm saying all the indicators that exist.

02:33:14.000 But one indicator that exists is the fact that, would you deny that there is anti-Asian hatred sentiment across this country?

02:33:22.000 No, I would not deny that there's anti-Asian hatred.

02:33:24.000 Wait, wait, wait.

02:33:25.000 From who?

02:33:25.000 What do you mean from who?

02:33:27.000 Who's got...

02:33:27.000 Who's attacking Asian people?

02:33:30.000 Do you have examples of this?

02:33:31.000 Oh, I didn't ask you that.

02:33:31.000 Who was attacking Asian people?

02:33:32.000 Anybody.

02:33:33.000 Do you have examples of this?

02:33:34.000 Sure.

02:33:35.000 There's been white people who've done it.

02:33:36.000 There's been black people who've done it.

02:33:37.000 Oh, I didn't ask you that.

02:33:38.000 I'm asking for the stories about Asian people you brought up race.

02:33:40.000 Well, we're talking about race.

02:33:42.000 We're talking about in the context of race.

02:33:43.000 Yes.

02:33:44.000 Well, I asked you, like, where is that where the Asian attacks happen?

02:33:48.000 Oh, in New York.

02:33:49.000 Sure.

02:33:50.000 In California.

02:33:50.000 Well, that's where there are major populations of Asian people.

02:33:54.000 Right.

02:33:54.000 Who's who's like?

02:33:55.000 So is there a reason the Asians are being attacked?

02:33:58.000 Oh, yes, because of sentiment via, like, racism due to COVID-19.

02:34:03.000 Beliefs that it came from China, and people—or it purposely came from China, or, you know, and they're taking it out on completely innocent Asian Americans.

02:34:13.000 And a lot of the times, they're not even attacking Chinese people, which wouldn't make it right, but they're even wrong on that sense, because they're attacking Korean Americans, they're attacking Japanese Americans. 0.56

02:34:23.000 And it's just it's wrong and that's something that for example white people do not experience. They usually do not 0.52

02:34:30.000 experience racist attacks like Asian Americans do in the aftermath of 0.86

02:34:35.000 the COVID-19 pandemic.

02:34:37.000 What about in general?

02:34:38.000 Do you think white people experience racist attacks for being white?

02:34:41.000 I'm sure it's happened, but that's an anomaly.

02:34:44.000 It's not as often as, for example, a black person or a Latino person.

02:34:49.000 Is that your feeling or is that a fact?

02:34:50.000 I mean, you could look it up.

02:34:51.000 I'm sure it'd be true.

02:34:54.000 We just had a story about the 10 people who got killed because there was a racist attack in a supermarket against black people, specifically from the shooter.

02:35:04.000 Sure, sure.

02:35:05.000 But how many people died last year in extremist attacks?

02:35:09.000 I don't, I don't, we have to look at those stats.

02:35:10.000 29.

02:35:10.000 Okay.

02:35:11.000 According to the Anti-Defamation League.

02:35:12.000 I mean, you had nearly a thousand shootings in Chicago in mass, like, I think it was like 400-ish people died in mass shootings in Chicago the entire, the entirety of last year.

02:35:23.000 And so it's just like, I feel like the conversation about white privilege You don't think the situation in those neighborhoods that have, you know, led to what you're describing, you don't think that has anything to do with the historic racism in this country?

02:35:40.000 You don't think those neighborhoods are predominantly, you know, they've maybe been redlined?

02:35:46.000 Do you know why they're shooting each other in Chicago?

02:35:50.000 It's different for every reason, right?

02:35:52.000 It's mostly, like, honor shootings.

02:35:55.000 I mean, that's... Can you pull up something to back that up?

02:35:58.000 I've never even... What do you mean, honor shootings?

02:36:00.000 What's that? 0.96

02:36:00.000 Like, you diss me, I take your life. 0.96

02:36:04.000 Okay.

02:36:04.000 I mean, I'm familiar with that.

02:36:05.000 Do you have anything to... I have a... We should go through Super Chats, but I can pull up for you.

02:36:10.000 Sure, yeah.

02:36:10.000 That would be really interesting.

02:36:12.000 For one, I'll cite myself as a source, as having covered and lived in Chicago for, you know, 23 years.

02:36:19.000 I actually went night-crawling with a couple of journalists.

02:36:22.000 One was really famous now.

02:36:23.000 You're familiar with night-crawling?

02:36:26.000 Yeah.

02:36:26.000 You get the radio and you go and chase it around.

02:36:29.000 We interviewed this crime prevention woman, a local in the black community, who was arguing in favor of gun rights but against gun violence.

02:36:39.000 One of the misconceptions in Chicago is that it's gang violence.

02:36:42.000 When it's actually more like somebody smack-talked my girl.

02:36:47.000 And if you do that, you're going to pay for it.

02:36:50.000 I would love to see more information about that for sure.

02:36:52.000 You should definitely pull up.

02:36:53.000 But you want to get back to the Super Chats or while you pull it up?

02:36:56.000 Yeah.

02:36:57.000 We'll get to super chats.

02:36:58.000 I wish we had more time, man.

02:36:59.000 I hate to... Well, I guess you're gonna have to invite me back.

02:37:01.000 Yeah.

02:37:04.000 There's an opportunity that takes it.

02:37:06.000 There's two videos.

02:37:07.000 I mean, definitely, absolutely.

02:37:08.000 There's two videos on my channel.

02:37:09.000 One is the interview with this woman.

02:37:11.000 I forgot her name.

02:37:12.000 It was years ago.

02:37:13.000 And then also when we went night crawling.

02:37:15.000 But I mean, I could also just speak as much as it's not as valuable as a direct source as someone who lived in Chicago and lived on the South Side having, like, witnessed people doing it.

02:37:23.000 We know why it happens.

02:37:25.000 So anyway, let's read some more.

02:37:26.000 Let's read some more Super Chats. 0.91

02:37:27.000 We gotta read more.

02:37:28.000 I don't know if we're gonna have time for a members-only segment unless, you know, you guys are all cool with it.

02:37:33.000 All right, let's see.

02:37:34.000 Twimmy says, I can't believe in 2022 Tim of the disgraced show ShimCast is advocating against segregation.

02:37:41.000 Shameful.

02:37:42.000 Ah, heavens.

02:37:43.000 ShimCast, wonderful show, let me tell you.

02:37:45.000 All right.

02:37:46.000 Jeffrey Pfaff says, sounds like George Wallace.

02:37:49.000 Leftist Atlanta teacher segregated the students.

02:37:52.000 If white people have privilege, wouldn't they use it to their advantage? 0.77

02:37:57.000 Um, sure.

02:37:58.000 I mean, it happens.

02:38:00.000 What do you mean?

02:38:01.000 What are they trying?

02:38:02.000 I'm not following.

02:38:03.000 So, in California, are you familiar with the proposition in 2020 to repeal the non-discrimination language from their constitution?

02:38:10.000 I'm not, no.

02:38:12.000 Excuse me.

02:38:13.000 Oof.

02:38:14.000 It was called, like, the Affirmative Action Bill or something.

02:38:17.000 And there was a provision in the Constitution that says you can't discriminate on the basis of race, sex, national origin, for purposes of public education or contracting and one other thing.

02:38:28.000 They wanted to remove that because they said we can't enact affirmative action without it.

02:38:33.000 My issue with it was, I kind of feel like if you give the government, which includes all the smaller and local governments, the ability to discriminate on the basis of race, like, my question to you is, I'll start with this, do you think that there are racist white people?

02:38:48.000 Racist white people?

02:38:49.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:38:49.000 Sure. 0.99

02:38:50.000 Yes, I think so, personally.

02:38:51.000 Do you think that there are racist white people in government?

02:38:54.000 Personally, I do.

02:38:54.000 Sure.

02:38:55.000 Do you think that if racist white people in government were given the opportunity to segregate on the basis, to discriminate on the basis of race, they would discriminate against people of color?

02:39:04.000 Probably.

02:39:04.000 I think they would.

02:39:05.000 So when California tried doing this, I was like, hey, that's a big no from me.

02:39:08.000 But it was actually the Democrat-led effort at the national level to do.

02:39:11.000 So you had tons of federal level Democrats who were advocating for this repeal.

02:39:16.000 To me, I find that shocking.

02:39:17.000 So the point was, if white people have privilege, wouldn't they use it to their advantage?

02:39:21.000 It sure looks like it.

02:39:22.000 Sure.

02:39:23.000 I mean, it happens.

02:39:24.000 Yeah.

02:39:25.000 Well, the Republicans opposed it.

02:39:27.000 It failed.

02:39:27.000 But the Democrats were pushing it.

02:39:29.000 And I'm glad they lost.

02:39:30.000 I would have to look more into that.

02:39:31.000 I'm not familiar with it.

02:39:33.000 All right.

02:39:35.000 Jeffrey Pfaff says, did he just admit CNN and MSNBC really put ad revenue before Black Lives being killed in Chicago?

02:39:42.000 They set the narrative, but he trusts the media.

02:39:44.000 You don't have to respond.

02:39:48.000 No, that's fine.

02:39:48.000 I mean, I'm sure they do.

02:39:50.000 I mean, what do you want?

02:39:52.000 They're a corporate media outlet.

02:39:53.000 What is their purpose?

02:39:56.000 All right, let's read some more.

02:39:57.000 It's really hard to read the Super Chats this way in this weird... Very small. 0.62

02:40:00.000 Yeah, very small and like... Is there a way to zoom in with the browser?

02:40:03.000 Yeah, go to view and enlarge it.

02:40:04.000 No, the size isn't mainly the issue.

02:40:07.000 It's the formatting.

02:40:08.000 Normally, we like to make sure we get people's questions from earlier in the show so we don't miss them.

02:40:13.000 So I'll go back and then we'll try and go forward.

02:40:16.000 But it's like reverse the order we normally do it in.

02:40:19.000 So I'll switch it.

02:40:22.000 All right, Make 1984 Fiction Again says, Tim, there is no such thing as a viable baby up until three years old, and that's being generous.

02:40:29.000 That argument is infuriating.

02:40:31.000 What does that mean?

02:40:33.000 Really saying children are wholly dependent on their mother at an early age.

02:40:39.000 Yeah, I mean, I get it.

02:40:41.000 I've heard the arguments.

02:40:42.000 It's tough.

02:40:43.000 I don't have all the answers.

02:40:44.000 That's all I can really say.

02:40:44.000 It depends on a very different way, though.

02:40:48.000 I mean, you can't say that going out and buying your child food is the same as your child literally being inside your body eating the nutrients that you intake.

02:40:57.000 That's not the same.

02:40:57.000 Yeah, but neither give you the right to kill your child if you don't want to do it.

02:41:01.000 Do what?

02:41:02.000 No one's advocating for killing anyone?

02:41:04.000 Yeah, unborn children.

02:41:04.000 That's what abortion is.

02:41:05.000 You're killing an unborn child. 0.95

02:41:07.000 So you're right.

02:41:08.000 There's a difference, sure, between having a child inside of you and providing resources for them, but parents are responsible for taking care of their children.

02:41:16.000 Right, yes.

02:41:17.000 A child, yes.

02:41:18.000 Yes, an unborn child is a child.

02:41:20.000 A person.

02:41:20.000 Yes, and they are people.

02:41:21.000 No one in all of history who has ever referred to a group of humans as not being full persons has ever been right in the final analysis.

02:41:30.000 Ever.

02:41:30.000 That's a fact.

02:41:31.000 Does a fetus get child support from their father? 0.64

02:41:37.000 I would absolutely say that men should be held to account for the children that they create.

02:41:41.000 Absolutely.

02:41:42.000 I think I think for the child is born, men should pay. 1.00

02:41:45.000 Yeah.

02:41:45.000 I think men should.

02:41:46.000 I guess.

02:41:47.000 I think that men should have to pay for their children. 1.00

02:41:48.000 100%.

02:41:49.000 I'm just like, no, what I specifically what I'm saying.

02:41:52.000 Yes.

02:41:52.000 Those are children.

02:41:53.000 Seamus thinks they should be married before.

02:41:55.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:41:56.000 And if a man abandons a woman who is pregnant with his child, he should absolutely be on the hook for taking care of her and that child. 0.95

02:42:03.000 Yeah.

02:42:05.000 But, you know, in the current laws we have, that's not the case.

02:42:10.000 It should be.

02:42:10.000 Good.

02:42:11.000 Are you going to advocate for that?

02:42:12.000 He does.

02:42:13.000 Yeah, I do.

02:42:14.000 I'm happy.

02:42:15.000 Good.

02:42:15.000 He opposes premarital sex.

02:42:18.000 I mean, like, I think it's interesting because, like, Seamus, Catholic, conservative.

02:42:23.000 What do you think about that one, though?

02:42:25.000 About should the father, the person who impregnates a woman, the male who impregnates a woman, should he be responsible for child support payments from, I don't know, I guess the moment of conception, right?

02:42:40.000 Yes.

02:42:41.000 But it's a question for me of law, right?

02:42:43.000 I think one of the problems we have is cultural enforcement.

02:42:47.000 I think we should do these things.

02:42:49.000 I think a man should be responsible the moment the woman is like, yo, I'm pregnant. 1.00

02:42:53.000 It's like, well, tell me what you need and what to do and he's going to take care of it.

02:42:57.000 I don't know how much I like the government's involvement in a person's private matters, because we've seen instances where even mothers have argued they don't want child support anymore, but the government's been like, we don't care, and then forced the guy to put the money through the government and to her.

02:43:10.000 That's a very specific case.

02:43:12.000 That's not the vast majority of the issues that come out.

02:43:16.000 But, I mean, you're in favor of the state enforcing, like, the private matters between a man and a woman? 0.59

02:43:22.000 If a woman is going to have a baby, then yes, absolutely. 0.97

02:43:26.000 The father should be... Oh, wow.

02:43:27.000 Yeah.

02:43:27.000 I mean, that's a more conservative position than I would have expected.

02:43:30.000 You don't... You're not a father's rights guy?

02:43:32.000 That's actually usually a right... No, no, no.

02:43:34.000 I think... I assumed you were more on the side of, like, individual, you know... Like, why would the woman have the right to choose but not the man? 0.63

02:43:43.000 I just assumed you would...

02:43:44.000 Well, the right to choose is based on the body.

02:43:47.000 What do you mean?

02:43:49.000 It's my body, my choice, right?

02:43:51.000 It's not my baby or my fetus, my choice.

02:43:54.000 We're talking about it's a woman's body that's being used and she has the ability to decide what she wants to do with her body. 1.00

02:44:02.000 Does the man have a right to choose in any capacity?

02:44:04.000 With his own body, sure, yeah.

02:44:06.000 Does the man have a right over whether or not the woman has a baby or not?

02:44:10.000 In terms of, like, if they decide together to have a baby, then yeah.

02:44:12.000 No, no, like, let's say a man and a woman hook up and they both were like, uh-oh, she's pregnant.

02:44:16.000 It's not his body.

02:44:17.000 So, but can he choose to just leave it?

02:44:19.000 Can he choose to just leave it?

02:44:20.000 Yeah.

02:44:21.000 No.

02:44:22.000 So you think the man should have no say in the matter in any capacity?

02:44:25.000 Well, he has plenty of say in the matter. 0.95

02:44:26.000 He could just not have sex with that woman. 0.99

02:44:28.000 The woman could not have sex, too. 1.00

02:44:30.000 Sure.

02:44:30.000 So the woman has a right to choose and the man doesn't.

02:44:34.000 Because it's her body, yes. 0.97

02:44:35.000 What if the man is like, I don't want to pay for it?

02:44:37.000 Well, he's got to.

02:44:38.000 Why does he have to?

02:44:38.000 Because that's the law.

02:44:39.000 Why doesn't the woman have to pay for it? 1.00

02:44:40.000 She does pay for it with her body and raising the child. 0.99

02:44:43.000 But she can get rid of it.

02:44:45.000 She could abort it.

02:44:46.000 Right.

02:44:46.000 Is that what you want her to do?

02:44:48.000 No.

02:44:48.000 I'm saying if, like, I recognize it's a woman's body, but how can you argue pro-choice for the woman but not the man's right to sever himself from responsibility?

02:44:56.000 Because pro-choice is talking about the woman's body. 1.00

02:44:58.000 What do you think pro-choice is?

02:45:01.000 We're talking about women's bodies. 0.96

02:45:03.000 That's what the pro-choice movement is.

02:45:07.000 I think the guy should pay.

02:45:08.000 I mean, it's literally in everything they say.

02:45:10.000 My body, my choice.

02:45:11.000 That's the thing.

02:45:12.000 It's not my fetus, my choice.

02:45:13.000 It's my body, my choice.

02:45:16.000 I thought you were making an equality argument.

02:45:21.000 Equality?

02:45:21.000 Like, if the woman can choose to terminate or not, it's her choice.

02:45:25.000 Because it's her body, yes. 0.97

02:45:26.000 Right.

02:45:27.000 The man could also choose to sever or not.

02:45:29.000 It's his choice.

02:45:32.000 Sever what?

02:45:32.000 What are you talking about?

02:45:33.000 Sever ties.

02:45:34.000 Well, no, he's responsible for the life that he helped bring into this world, if that's what she decides to go forward with.

02:45:38.000 So men have less of a say in the birth of the baby.

02:45:41.000 Like, hear me out.

02:45:43.000 Do you think it would be okay if a woman got an abortion because she couldn't afford a baby? 0.84

02:45:46.000 Like, let's say she's six weeks pregnant, she has no money, and she's like, I can't afford this. 0.99

02:45:51.000 Sure, because it's her body, yes. 0.99

02:45:54.000 But based on finances.

02:45:55.000 Sure.

02:45:56.000 What if the guy has no money and he's homeless?

02:45:57.000 Well, then the courts take that into consideration.

02:46:01.000 So I'm not asking you about the courts.

02:46:03.000 I'm saying, do you think the guy should be like, I have no money, I can't have a baby?

02:46:07.000 Well, then he should have considered that before he went ahead and did an act that resulted in the birth of a child.

02:46:13.000 But why does the woman not have that same obligation? 1.00

02:46:14.000 Because it's her body.

02:46:16.000 It's really simple.

02:46:17.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:46:17.000 No, she had the option not to use her body to engage in the act which creates children.

02:46:22.000 She did have that option.

02:46:23.000 No, no, no.

02:46:24.000 We're specifically talking about the right to your body.

02:46:28.000 I mean, you guys disagree.

02:46:29.000 That's fine.

02:46:30.000 But this is the position.

02:46:33.000 No, no, no.

02:46:35.000 I think we agree.

02:46:36.000 I'm just confused as to what your principled position is because it doesn't seem to make sense to me.

02:46:39.000 How does that make sense?

02:46:40.000 You have two human beings who are of equal rights under the eye of the government.

02:46:44.000 One says, I am six weeks pregnant, but I can choose to end right now the child.

02:46:53.000 Now hold on.

02:46:54.000 The major thing is that the choice is her choice over her body, right?

02:46:58.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:46:59.000 So the male's body is not involved.

02:47:02.000 So there's no choice involved here.

02:47:04.000 I'm talking about finances.

02:47:06.000 That's where the responsibility of it comes into play.

02:47:09.000 So a woman can get an abortion because she's broke, right? 1.00

02:47:12.000 Sure, that's her body. 1.00

02:47:14.000 So a woman can be like, I'm not going to have a baby, I can't afford it. 1.00

02:47:17.000 Yes.

02:47:18.000 Was there any responsibility for her when she decided to engage in sex without, and then getting pregnant?

02:47:23.000 Is there any responsibility?

02:47:24.000 I mean, sure.

02:47:24.000 But at the end of the day, it's her body and she has the right to decide what she, what happens.

02:47:30.000 So what about the man?

02:47:32.000 Does he, he has, he has no say in the matter at all.

02:47:35.000 I mean, if a man wants, if a man does not want a child, he should not engage in acts that If he does want a child, though, there's many ways he could go about getting a child if his partner, for example, doesn't want a child.

02:47:48.000 You know that your argument is an inversion of the right-wing argument.

02:47:51.000 Like, they're identical in principle, but they make no sense logically to me.

02:47:57.000 I would say that my position is the position that most people on the left have.

02:48:02.000 Right, right.

02:48:03.000 So, when Seamus says, both the mother and the father have to be responsible for what they did, and the man has to pay, and the woman shouldn't be able to kill the baby, that's logically sound. 0.94

02:48:14.000 I get it.

02:48:14.000 Both have- they've done it, the baby's there.

02:48:17.000 Your position is, one gets a say, one doesn't.

02:48:20.000 Because we're talking- I'm talking about finances, not a body.

02:48:22.000 Okay.

02:48:23.000 You keep changing the subject.

02:48:24.000 Because finances, when it comes to a woman's choice, the finances are just irrelevant. 1.00

02:48:30.000 Because the man doesn't have anything happen to his body.

02:48:34.000 There's nothing.

02:48:34.000 He doesn't have anything happen to his body.

02:48:37.000 If the woman chooses to have a baby, it's her decision. 0.99

02:48:40.000 Sure.

02:48:40.000 So why does the man have to choose?

02:48:42.000 The man has no choice to have the kid?

02:48:44.000 I think he does.

02:48:45.000 He could just not have done what he did to result in a pregnancy.

02:48:49.000 So, here's the problem.

02:48:52.000 The 14th Amendment, this is my confusion, the 14th Amendment says equality under the law.

02:48:56.000 You can't create a circumstance in which, for any reason, body or otherwise, one person has a legal right and another person doesn't have.

02:49:02.000 If the woman can decide to, for financial reasons, terminate a pregnancy or keep it, under any argument, the man would have to have, under the 14th Amendment, the same equality under the law. 0.58

02:49:12.000 Now, if you want to make an argument about a woman's right to an abortion because it's her body, I agree. 1.00

02:49:16.000 It's her body. 0.98

02:49:17.000 But now we're talking about responsibility that one can end and one can't.

02:49:21.000 That doesn't jive under the 14th Amendment.

02:49:23.000 I don't understand.

02:49:24.000 It makes no sense.

02:49:25.000 I mean, you're arguing from a 14th Amendment perspective.

02:49:28.000 Which is Roe v. Wade.

02:49:29.000 Sure, but it's not the same thing.

02:49:31.000 Equality under law means men and women have to be able to make the same financial decisions.

02:49:35.000 So you're saying that every situation where a man did not want to have a child and is forced to pay child support, your claim is that it's currently unconstitutional.

02:49:49.000 So my position is the guy should pay.

02:49:52.000 I said from the beginning, I think the guy should pay.

02:49:56.000 But I think we need cultural changes.

02:50:00.000 My question is, I don't understand how you reconcile that.

02:50:03.000 I mean, if we want to talk about cultural changes...

02:50:04.000 My position is civil rights should be followed in the law.

02:50:06.000 If you want to talk about cultural changes, that's fine.

02:50:08.000 I could agree with cultural changes, but that doesn't change the fact that

02:50:12.000 in the situation where, as it happens right now, if a woman does not want a pregnancy,

02:50:18.000 six weeks like you said, not viable, completely legal to do in this country,

02:50:23.000 She's a great person.

02:50:24.000 She can have an abortion. 1.00

02:50:25.000 So when it comes to financials... A man cannot force her to have the abortion.

02:50:29.000 A man cannot claim he doesn't want to pay for a child if she wants that.

02:50:32.000 Should women pay child support to men? 1.00

02:50:34.000 For what?

02:50:35.000 For the baby.

02:50:35.000 For the baby?

02:50:36.000 What do you mean?

02:50:37.000 If a man and a woman get together and they have kids, and the woman is, you know, she works at Vice Media making 70k a year and the husband's homeless, should she pay child support to him?

02:50:46.000 He's not carrying the child?

02:50:47.000 No, no, after it's born.

02:50:48.000 Child support is after it's born.

02:50:50.000 If they're together, then no.

02:50:51.000 No, no, they split up.

02:50:52.000 They split up?

02:50:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:50:53.000 Is he taking care of the child?

02:50:54.000 They have dual custody.

02:50:56.000 Is he taking care of the child?

02:50:57.000 Dual custody means they both have equal access to the child.

02:50:59.000 I mean, I'm sure she's making sure, if that's the case, that the child is okay.

02:51:02.000 The government should mandate women pay child support to men. 1.00

02:51:04.000 I mean, if it's that situation where the man is in squalor taking care of the child, then yes, sure.

02:51:10.000 What if the man makes 50K and the woman makes 80? 1.00

02:51:13.000 I mean, if the court decides, I'm fine with that.

02:51:15.000 So, simple question.

02:51:17.000 Simplified.

02:51:18.000 Women should pay the same child support men should pay. 1.00

02:51:20.000 In the same circumstances.

02:51:21.000 Sure.

02:51:21.000 If they're both taking care of the child, sure.

02:51:24.000 Yeah, okay.

02:51:24.000 There we go.

02:51:25.000 That's one way to get it.

02:51:27.000 Alright, let's see what we got.

02:51:29.000 That's what you were asking this whole time?

02:51:30.000 Because that's not how it read to me.

02:51:32.000 We could have gotten past that a lot earlier.

02:51:34.000 Well, because my question is, if you're making a 14th Amendment argument for abortion, how do you ignore that men don't have a say?

02:51:41.000 it doesn't make sense.

02:51:42.000 Well, I'll just read some more.

02:51:45.000 Go ahead.

02:51:46.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:51:47.000 So, what, if a man pressures a woman to have an abortion, what should the penalty for that

02:51:51.000 If a man pressures a woman?

02:51:53.000 Yeah, so you're saying a man can't make a woman have an abortion.

02:51:55.000 I mean, what if he does?

02:51:56.000 What should the penalty be?

02:51:57.000 What do you mean by make?

02:51:58.000 Like, he puts pressure on her.

02:52:00.000 He coerces her into doing it.

02:52:01.000 He threatens her.

02:52:02.000 He says he'll hurt her or something like that.

02:52:05.000 That's a completely different thing.

02:52:08.000 Do you think it should be a different penalty than if a man threatens a woman for some other reason? 0.64

02:52:11.000 Like if a man says, You know, I'll hit you if you don't listen, versus I'll hit you if you don't get an abortion. 0.91

02:52:15.000 Do you think that those are different circumstances that should incur a different penalty?

02:52:19.000 If he does something to actually... convincing her... What if he threatens her?

02:52:24.000 She has an abortion because... If a woman says, I got this abortion because a man threatened me, should there be a legal penalty for that? 0.92

02:52:30.000 I would actually love to see if there are laws in the books for that, because that'd be interesting for sure.

02:52:33.000 I think, you know, there are in terms of like, if a man was to punch a pregnant woman, his pregnant partner, And that would result in an abortion that would be considered in this country a fetal homicide.

02:52:44.000 We have a specific classification for that in those scenarios.

02:52:48.000 Yes, so there are certain circumstances in certain states where you can be charged with homicide for killing an unborn child.

02:52:54.000 Fetal homicide.

02:52:55.000 Yes, but homicide means you've killed a human.

02:52:59.000 That's what homicide means.

02:53:00.000 It's specifically called a fetal homicide.

02:53:02.000 Yes, but you're acknowledging that it is homicide.

02:53:04.000 Sure.

02:53:04.000 He killed a person, but what you're saying is under specific circumstances, if the mother doesn't want that child, killing it becomes acceptable.

02:53:11.000 Because we're now talking about the issue of it being her body, and she has the authority over herself, over her person.

02:53:18.000 But she's not making a decision about herself, she's making a decision about the child that's in the room.

02:53:23.000 The law disagrees with that, though.

02:53:25.000 That law's wrong.

02:53:28.000 I think you guys like... Sure, but then I guess my final question is, since it's an issue of her body, would you argue that since this is just about her body, it's not about a right to kill a child, that if the child is viable, it should be delivered and then saved with medical technology?

02:53:44.000 Do you think that should be the requirement?

02:53:46.000 If the child's viability, if the child is past the point of viability and the mother doesn't want to be pregnant, should she be allowed to kill that child that can survive outside the womb? 0.95

02:53:55.000 Or should there be a requirement?

02:53:56.000 I'm not talking about the laws in the country.

02:53:57.000 I'm asking about your position.

02:53:59.000 If this is just about a woman's body, and there's an opportunity for the unborn child to live outside of her body because it is viable, is she able to abort the child and kill it? 0.64

02:54:08.000 Or would you argue, since this is just about her body and not killing a child, that everything would have to be done to deliver and save that child?

02:54:15.000 It's her body. 0.98

02:54:16.000 That's my position.

02:54:17.000 But that's not an argument to what I said.

02:54:19.000 We're not talking about her body.

02:54:23.000 When they perform an abortion procedure, they actually specifically go in and kill the child. 0.71

02:54:26.000 They don't simply remove it.

02:54:27.000 But you're talking about something that doesn't happen.

02:54:29.000 It's not happening in this country.

02:54:30.000 What are you talking about?

02:54:31.000 People aren't getting abortions? 1.00

02:54:33.000 After viability, a woman can't just up and choose. 1.00

02:54:35.000 There has to be a reason.

02:54:37.000 And I told you, I read citations from partial birth abortionists who have said the number one reason cited is depression in their practice.

02:54:46.000 So I think this quantifies the political issue we have in this country very simply.

02:54:51.000 My political positions have long been from what's called traditional liberal.

02:54:57.000 In the first several weeks, pre-viability, beyond that.

02:55:00.000 I understand Seamus' perspective.

02:55:02.000 I have a libertarian argument that he's mocked and doesn't agree with.

02:55:06.000 I don't think you understand at all what's being said.

02:55:09.000 I'm not saying that to be disrespectful.

02:55:10.000 I'm saying when I pull up the law and we're trying to explain to you what the definition of abortion is according to the U.S.

02:55:15.000 government, and you don't understand it, you say it's her body, but we didn't mention her body.

02:55:19.000 We're talking about a baby being delivered, but you defer to something that's not being talked about.

02:55:26.000 I don't know if we can— I mean, we've discussed this.

02:55:29.000 I view it as an issue of if the fetus is in the mother's body, And going by the current laws we have right now, which I—for Rovi, Wade, and Casey— I'm sorry, this is the issue.

02:55:43.000 We're trying to ask you about your advocacy, not the law.

02:55:47.000 My advocacy is what exactly is legal in this country right now.

02:55:50.000 So you think— But then you can't— Let me try this.

02:55:54.000 Let me try this.

02:55:55.000 There's two babies.

02:55:57.000 There's a pregnant woman, and she's eight and a half months along.

02:56:02.000 There's another baby next to her that is freshly delivered at eight and a half weeks.

02:56:08.000 The babies are completely... I got a better idea.

02:56:11.000 Twins.

02:56:12.000 Here we go.

02:56:13.000 A woman is pregnant with twins.

02:56:14.000 One is born. 0.99

02:56:16.000 Can they kill the one still in her? 1.00

02:56:18.000 Or no.

02:56:20.000 If there's something that needs, if that's what absolutely needs to be done, yes, that's the law.

02:56:24.000 So you say, no, no, no, no, no.

02:56:26.000 You can't say my position is the law.

02:56:28.000 Well, that's just the law.

02:56:29.000 He's asking you philosophically.

02:56:34.000 I don't care about the philosophical discussions because what matters is the law.

02:56:38.000 These philosophical discussions help inform what the law should be.

02:56:41.000 But the law is what it is right now.

02:56:43.000 It's her body is a philosophical point that you're making.

02:56:46.000 No, that's literally the law.

02:56:47.000 The Democrats just tried to change the law last week.

02:56:48.000 Okay, but they didn't.

02:56:49.000 Because they failed thanks to people like me.

02:56:52.000 Because people like me, who oppose terminating the life of a baby when it can survive outside the womb, We oppose that.

02:57:02.000 We've always opposed that.

02:57:03.000 Bill Clinton, all of us, since going back, the traditional liberals, the traditional liberal position.

02:57:08.000 So Seamus is the classical conservative position, I'm the traditional liberal position, and you're the progressive leftist position.

02:57:15.000 So you can understand why everyone on the right calls me a leftist, because I actually say first term, you know, pro-choice or whatever.

02:57:22.000 And that is so far from where Republicans are and Conservatives are.

02:57:26.000 But then you guys are sitting here saying, a woman can decide to terminate a viable baby if she chooses.

02:57:31.000 That is so far removed from me.

02:57:33.000 No, no.

02:57:34.000 I never... When we're talking about a viable pregnancy, the laws in this country are that there needs to be a reason that it's done.

02:57:43.000 Where the baby is going...

02:57:46.000 Why is it so hard for you to understand that I agree with what the laws currently are?

02:57:51.000 Because I'm asking you about your moral position and advocacy, not what the law is.

02:57:57.000 My moral position and advocacy is that it is a woman's choice, because it is her body, and if a fetus inside her body can survive, Excuse me?

02:58:08.000 Can't survive.

02:58:09.000 Right.

02:58:09.000 In this country, you can only do that.

02:58:12.000 Whatever you're trying to get out of me, I don't know what you're looking for, but you're not going to get it because I'm telling you exactly what my position is.

02:58:17.000 No, no, no.

02:58:17.000 You know what your position is?

02:58:18.000 You're scared to actually say it because the left will come at you.

02:58:21.000 No.

02:58:21.000 Oh, bro, bro.

02:58:22.000 How many times— A woman has a right to choose whatever she deems is— We're not talking about a woman, but you refuse to say it because this is the issue. 0.95

02:58:31.000 But that's what abortion is. 1.00

02:58:34.000 If the baby is at the point of birth, Kathy Tran said it could be killed.

02:58:39.000 In the situation where the woman's life, or there is something- How do they get the baby out? 0.99

02:58:44.000 What do you mean, how do they get the baby out?

02:58:45.000 The wom- What do you mean, how do they get the baby out? 1.00

02:58:49.000 They- A woman is nine months pregnant. 0.96

02:58:50.000 Sure.

02:58:51.000 At the point of birth, she is dilating.

02:58:54.000 Kathy Tran said, yes, you can end the life of the baby, as per the CDC's definitions.

02:59:01.000 Is that what she said?

02:59:02.000 Yes!

02:59:02.000 If that's what she said, okay, then there must be a reason that it's done.

02:59:07.000 It's not just babies coming out and she goes, I don't want it.

02:59:09.000 What's the reason?

02:59:10.000 Okay, so the baby has to be removed from the woman, right? 1.00

02:59:16.000 The baby has to be removed from the woman. 1.00

02:59:18.000 The pregnancy is bad. 0.70

02:59:19.000 The baby has to be removed.

02:59:20.000 Are you talking about, like, a miscarriage?

02:59:21.000 No, no, no.

02:59:21.000 I'm saying, when Kathy Tran said, at the point of birth— I'm sorry, it was a judge.

02:59:26.000 I believe it was a judge who said, a woman is dialing at the point of birth.

02:59:30.000 Could you perform an abortion? 1.00

02:59:31.000 She said, there are no restrictions.

02:59:32.000 None.

02:59:33.000 No limitations.

02:59:34.000 It was then stated to Ralph Northam, even at the point of birth, abortion, as the CDC defines it, is a no live birth removal of the pregnancy.

02:59:44.000 How do they get the baby out of the woman? 1.00

02:59:47.000 Monique, the same way that you would... You're asking, like, if she gives birth.

02:59:53.000 But an abortion ends the life of the baby, according to the CDC.

02:59:56.000 Sure.

02:59:57.000 So if they would legalize abortion up to the point of birth, that means ending... A termination of a pregnancy that results in no live birth would mean they need to take action to end the life of the baby as it's coming out.

03:00:11.000 So if you're saying there needs to be a reason, my question is, okay, How do you propose they get a fully developed baby at nine months out of a womb when it needs to be removed?

03:00:22.000 Depends on what the doctor decides is right.

03:00:24.000 C-section or birth?

03:00:25.000 No, no.

03:00:25.000 Abortion ends the life of the baby.

03:00:27.000 Sure.

03:00:28.000 So how do they remove the baby and end its life at the same time at nine months?

03:00:32.000 That doesn't happen.

03:00:33.000 There's no abortions happening once the baby is out of the body. 1.00

03:00:36.000 The law they proposed would legalize that.

03:00:38.000 No, it wouldn't.

03:00:39.000 That would be homicide, because that is now a person.

03:00:41.000 You're starting to get it!

03:00:42.000 That's a person.

03:00:43.000 You're starting to get it.

03:00:44.000 At birth, when the baby is out and becomes a baby, it is a person, and that would be considered homicide, not an abortion, and homicide is illegal.

03:00:53.000 Crazy law.

03:00:54.000 That it just magically, it's a person instantly.

03:00:57.000 Now it has legal protections.

03:00:58.000 I mean, that's exactly what the law says.

03:01:00.000 It's a really bad law.

03:01:01.000 I mean, that's what the law is.

03:01:04.000 Let me just try and see if I can pull it up.

03:01:06.000 The baby gets a name then?

03:01:07.000 The baby gets a birth certificate?

03:01:09.000 Already legal in some cases in Virginia!

03:01:12.000 The baby gets a social security number?

03:01:15.000 Those things are what make you a human?

03:01:17.000 In this country, under the law, that's what makes you a person.

03:01:20.000 There's a difference between being a human and a person.

03:01:22.000 Disagree.

03:01:22.000 I think humans are persons.

03:01:23.000 Yeah, I think that's a false distinction to strip people of their rights.

03:01:26.000 Every time that distinction is made, that these humans are not persons worthy of rights and protections, it is always an argument to strip them of their rights and do horrific things.

03:01:33.000 And I point this out too, that's always been the losing side of history.

03:01:37.000 Always what the losing side says.

03:01:39.000 Every argument throughout history that some people aren't legally people has always failed.

03:01:44.000 So, Trent acknowledges her bill, which was killed in a 5-3 vote, would allow a woman to receive an abortion even up to the point when she is about to give birth.

03:01:51.000 The Virginia House GOP tweeted that legislation would provide abortions up to just seconds before the precious child takes their first breath.

03:01:58.000 Right, that means before the baby is born.

03:02:00.000 But at the point of birth, seconds before, you think there's a distinction?

03:02:04.000 Yes, there's distinction.

03:02:05.000 One is a baby is born and the other one it's not.

03:02:07.000 And there has to be a medical concern for either the mother or the fetus.

03:02:13.000 No, there should be a medical concern.

03:02:14.000 And I've told you, I mentioned this early on the show, there have been entire petitions signed by doctors saying that this idea of a medically necessitated abortion is a myth.

03:02:23.000 You've also repeatedly claimed that late-term abortions don't happen.

03:02:26.000 It's only because there's some extreme reason why they need to.

03:02:29.000 I didn't say they don't happen.

03:02:29.000 You said they don't happen, but I quoted the Guttmacher Institute, the most pro-choice abortion-related think tank in this country, their own numbers, and according to them, late-term abortions only happen because there is some fetal anomaly One to two percent of the times, one third of the time, it's because the woman says she underestimated how far along she was.

03:02:48.000 25% of the time they said they tried to arrange an earlier abortion, couldn't.

03:02:52.000 14% said they were afraid at that point to tell their parents or partner.

03:02:55.000 The rest cited something along the lines of taking their time to decide or a change in their relationship status.

03:03:01.000 I'm gonna throw a bone.

03:03:03.000 So your point is completely wrong, but you've said this repeatedly that it doesn't happen, and as someone with a public platform, when you were speaking about a life-and-death issue where infants are being slaughtered, you have a responsibility to know that it does in fact happen and stop saying that.

03:03:14.000 Stop saying what?

03:03:15.000 Stop saying it doesn't happen.

03:03:16.000 You've said multiple times it doesn't happen.

03:03:17.000 What's the link to this so we can show them?

03:03:19.000 Yeah, I can pull up.

03:03:19.000 It's a 1988 Guttmacher Institute study.

03:03:22.000 1988 survey?

03:03:22.000 Well, because they don't survey this anymore, because guess what?

03:03:24.000 They didn't get the results that they wanted.

03:03:27.000 I'm just gonna- I'm gonna do this.

03:03:29.000 I'm gonna be a little bit, uh, condescending.

03:03:31.000 And I'm gonna, uh, point out where- why it's so difficult to do these shows.

03:03:38.000 Seamus chose Data, at least from 1988.

03:03:40.000 It happened.

03:03:42.000 We have edge cases that are clearly citable.

03:03:44.000 We have the legal definition of abortion.

03:03:47.000 We have a clear moral difference.

03:03:51.000 But I'll give you an example of where I think the problem lies, and I'm going to throw it back to explain the Thanos moment with Sam Seder.

03:03:59.000 Sam doesn't know what deontology or utilitarianism is.

03:04:03.000 I don't know.

03:04:03.000 When I was in a conversation with him and I referenced deontological thinking versus

03:04:07.000 utilitarianism he said I don't understand what that is.

03:04:10.000 How do you explain to someone who doesn't understand these concepts what they are?

03:04:14.000 How would you propose I explain deontology or utilitarianism?

03:04:17.000 I don't know.

03:04:18.000 I don't know.

03:04:19.000 What if I use something that is common to most people like a movie?

03:04:22.000 I mean if you want to do that.

03:04:23.000 Maybe if I'm dealing with someone who doesn't know philosophy, they're not... I'm not saying they have to know that.

03:04:28.000 This is the thing.

03:04:28.000 I understand on your show and you like to have the discussion, but I don't deal in the philosophical.

03:04:33.000 I just don't.

03:04:34.000 I deal with actual policy and what's actually going on and what happens to people in real life.

03:04:39.000 What do you think I mean by philosophical?

03:04:40.000 It's nice just opining about hypotheticals.

03:04:43.000 You do that all the time.

03:04:44.000 That's not what I'm talking about.

03:04:45.000 Okay, then what?

03:04:46.000 But this is another really great point.

03:04:47.000 Sure.

03:04:48.000 I think that you and Sam lack the perspicacity to understand the context of the arguments and the substance of them.

03:04:55.000 So, in the context of Sam Seder, I made a reference to deontology, that an immoral act against a single individual shall not be taken, versus utilitarianism, which is more the argument that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, which is also a pop culture reference.

03:05:11.000 The idea being that we tend to see villainous people as those who are willing to sacrifice people for the sake of other people, We tend to see heroes as those who are willing to save the individual.

03:05:21.000 Sam didn't know what those words meant.

03:05:23.000 Sure.

03:05:23.000 But they're hugely important to our policy in this country.

03:05:27.000 The trolley problem, as it were, is a question about whether you're willing to kill a person to save five people.

03:05:34.000 These are questions of deontology versus utilitarianism.

03:05:38.000 Sam doesn't know those words.

03:05:40.000 And I'm not saying it to be mean to him.

03:05:41.000 Sure.

03:05:42.000 Not everybody knows philosophy.

03:05:44.000 But if I'm trying to convey ideas, the only thing I can do is try to find common ground between us.

03:05:52.000 Big movie just came out, Avengers.

03:05:55.000 So if you don't understand deontology or utilitarianism, which is the academic approach, I can try the pop culture approach.

03:06:00.000 Me, I love pop culture references.

03:06:02.000 Instead of actually addressing the substance of the issue, instead Sam and many others just mocked the idea that I had to dumb down the concepts for him because he didn't get it.

03:06:12.000 You see, this is a problem.

03:06:13.000 If I approach in good faith Sam with a question about philosophy that he cannot understand because he doesn't know these terms, so I try to find common ground and he mocks me for it, what is my incentive to even try?

03:06:25.000 What does that have to do with... it sounds like an issue you should take up with Sam.

03:06:31.000 I mean, I'm here.

03:06:33.000 Are you trying to say that I was doing that on this show?

03:06:34.000 I think I was being very upfront and honest with you guys.

03:06:36.000 I've given you guys my full-blown opinions and everything.

03:06:40.000 I agree.

03:06:40.000 I appreciate you coming.

03:06:41.000 My point is...

03:06:43.000 I don't know how many times Seamus and I, who completely disagree on the issue of abortion, can try to explain to you legal terms, definitions, the body of a baby versus the body of the mother.

03:06:52.000 You can't understand it.

03:06:53.000 How do I have a conversation with you if you don't understand what we're saying?

03:06:55.000 No, I do understand what you're saying.

03:06:58.000 I'm reiterating to you what my position is, and you just don't want to accept that as my position.

03:07:03.000 Like, I'm telling you in the most plainest words.

03:07:05.000 Like when we say a baby has its own body, you say, it's the mother's body.

03:07:08.000 And we're like, we're not talking about the mother's body.

03:07:10.000 You say, but it's the mother's body.

03:07:11.000 I'm like, I don't know how many times we've got to say it's the baby's body.

03:07:13.000 If it's inside of her body as a fetus, then it's whatever you're discussing, whatever you want to try to go about from that perspective or direction, the ultimate decision comes to the mother.

03:07:28.000 I just want to make one more statistical point because you didn't like that study.

03:07:30.000 It was from 1988.

03:07:31.000 I found something newer.

03:07:32.000 A 2013 study published by the Guttmacher Institute states that data suggests that most women seeking later term abortions are not doing so for reasons of fetal anomaly or life endangerment.

03:07:41.000 How many women are having late term abortions period though? 1.00

03:07:48.000 It's an evil, horrific thing to do.

03:07:49.000 What year was that?

03:07:50.000 That's 2013.

03:07:50.000 Oh, 2013.

03:07:51.000 Yeah.

03:07:52.000 I mean, I do kind of feel like if Seamus has made two references and you haven't made any, then you're in the weaker position.

03:07:57.000 Okay.

03:07:58.000 Like, so, see, my attitude tends to be like, if, if someone's like, like, to me, to me, to me, this isn't like a thing where I'm trying to score points or win.

03:08:08.000 I'm giving you guys what my position is.

03:08:10.000 No, I respect that.

03:08:10.000 Look, I'm not trying to score points either.

03:08:13.000 Most of the show I haven't talked because I didn't want this to be like, we're double teaming.

03:08:16.000 There were a few times where I wanted to jump in and yeah, but with a couple of statistical points.

03:08:21.000 I'd be happy to do it again at some point, but there was just a couple statistical points that I really did feel a need to correct.

03:08:26.000 This is a really great example of Why do people call me right-wing?

03:08:32.000 I don't know if we're gonna get to the members-only, guys.

03:08:34.000 We think we're just doing it right now.

03:08:36.000 That's it.

03:08:36.000 We're giving it away!

03:08:37.000 Just give it away!

03:08:38.000 What makes me right-wing?

03:08:39.000 Well, you say you advocate for these positions, but earlier I got you to say that, you know, you actually said that you preferred to stand next to me or the ending of Roe v. Wade, you prefer the ending of Roe v. Wade.

03:08:54.000 No, I didn't say Roe v. Wade.

03:08:55.000 I said banning of abortion.

03:08:56.000 Yeah, so you stand with the banning of abortion.

03:08:58.000 Why?

03:08:59.000 What was my reason?

03:09:00.000 You tell me.

03:09:01.000 Because you're in favor of terminating babies' lives at nine months.

03:09:04.000 But you don't seem to care about the life of the mother then.

03:09:07.000 I do.

03:09:08.000 No, but you don't.

03:09:09.000 If you say you'd rather ban abortions than my position, then you say the mother's life is worth less then.

03:09:16.000 The grown human's life is worth less than an unborn fetus to you.

03:09:21.000 No.

03:09:22.000 But that is the position then.

03:09:23.000 They could deliver the baby.

03:09:25.000 They could deliver the baby.

03:09:27.000 What if they cannot?

03:09:28.000 Then I said, the provision should be added that all efforts must be made to preserve the life of the baby, but they didn't add that.

03:09:35.000 We're not talking about provision anymore.

03:09:36.000 And so I said, in your context, if the issue was you telling me a baby could be killed at the point of birth or banning abortion, I would choose banning abortion.

03:09:46.000 I didn't say I wanted to ban abortion.

03:09:47.000 I'm saying your position is so extreme, you've pushed me to the other side if that's my only option.

03:09:53.000 Okay, but we're now using that hypothetical.

03:09:55.000 That's what we're talking about now.

03:09:56.000 You don't like hypotheticals.

03:09:57.000 I don't like hypotheticals, but you love philosophical discussions, so let's do it.

03:10:00.000 Philosophical and hypothetical are two different things.

03:10:02.000 Okay, well let's do the philosophical then.

03:10:04.000 You said before that you would rather stand with people who want to ban all abortion than stand with my position.

03:10:12.000 Sure, fine.

03:10:13.000 So that means then that as a result, women who would die if they don't have an abortion would die. 1.00

03:10:21.000 No.

03:10:22.000 That is the result of that.

03:10:23.000 That is the result of that.

03:10:25.000 This is the point I was making before about your inability to understand the argument.

03:10:31.000 But I'm playing by your rules now.

03:10:33.000 So a woman is nine months pregnant.

03:10:36.000 The pregnancy needs to end now. 0.97

03:10:40.000 What should they do?

03:10:41.000 No, but we're not talking about these specifics anymore though.

03:10:44.000 Your position was, stand with me, who according to you, has this position and then number oh you're like talking to

03:10:52.000 a brick wall how's talking brick wall i'm going by your own position i have already said if my

03:10:58.000 choices are between someone saying end the life of a baby at nine months or no abortion at all

03:11:06.000 i would choose no abortion Yes. 0.83

03:11:09.000 That is, if there were two extremes, I would opt for the one that, for the most part, does not kill the baby.

03:11:16.000 And in that- Now, hold on!

03:11:18.000 Okay.

03:11:19.000 Abortion, according to the CDC, terminates the life of the baby.

03:11:25.000 If a woman's health is at risk because of a pregnancy, You do not need to kill the baby to save the woman.

03:11:35.000 Right.

03:11:35.000 And they don't do that if they can't.

03:11:37.000 If they can save and give the birth to the child, that's what they do. 0.96

03:11:41.000 And that's why my position was they should just add a provision saying that to the bill.

03:11:46.000 Otherwise, it would allow for babies to be killed. 0.97

03:11:51.000 And that's one of the issues I have with it. 0.94

03:11:52.000 OK.

03:11:53.000 That's a little bit different than what we were discussing before.

03:11:55.000 We have to go back probably and listen to it, but we're not going to do that now.

03:11:57.000 I understand.

03:11:58.000 We're just going to keep going in circles here.

03:11:59.000 We're probably going to move on, but your last statement is not true, that they don't do that.

03:12:03.000 They do perform abortions at that stage.

03:12:06.000 I've cited actually three different sources of statistics on this.

03:12:11.000 You're still maintaining your position.

03:12:13.000 But it's not just like, oh, I'm feeling depressed.

03:12:15.000 There must be something that is— Actually, I know that's happened.

03:12:18.000 just a woman according to according to partial birth i cited partial birth abortionist james

03:12:23.000 mcmahon said that is the number one reason cited depression the primary reason given by those

03:12:29.000 requesting the procedure is depression but there's a difference between someone who's debilitating

03:12:32.000 depression and someone who's just i'm sure what you're thinking like oh no i'm not thinking that

03:12:36.000 i think debilitating depression is a horrible thing i don't think it necessitates killing an

03:12:40.000 unborn child i mean i would have to leave that up to the woman in the doctor well i wouldn't because

03:12:44.000 i think it's wrong to kill people and i don't just leave that up to whoever's doing it or wants to

03:12:49.000 The traditional, like, position on abortion among Democrat voters has been, there's got to be some restrictions.

03:12:57.000 Right, and there are.

03:12:58.000 Your position is like, we should get rid of them.

03:13:00.000 No, that's not my position.

03:13:01.000 I think what we have right now works.

03:13:04.000 I mean, you do.

03:13:06.000 Yeah.

03:13:06.000 I mean, states are banning abortion.

03:13:08.000 What are you talking about?

03:13:09.000 and it's still in play.

03:13:10.000 And like several states have, like Oklahoma outright banned it.

03:13:13.000 Not yet.

03:13:14.000 No, no, they did.

03:13:15.000 Not yet, you can't.

03:13:16.000 No, no, oh.

03:13:17.000 Not until the decision comes down.

03:13:18.000 No, no, no, no, no, no.

03:13:19.000 Didn't Oklahoma, did they pass that bill already?

03:13:20.000 I thought they did, we might have to double check.

03:13:22.000 Yeah, were they?

03:13:22.000 It can't go into effect though until the Supreme Court decision.

03:13:26.000 I mean, California's got, they don't enforce immigration laws.

03:13:30.000 Like it doesn't matter what the federal government says.

03:13:30.000 Wait, wait, wait, what are you talking about?

03:13:32.000 We're talking about specifically in Oklahoma that just.

03:13:34.000 Okay, dude.

03:13:35.000 Why did you bring up immigration just now?

03:13:37.000 You made a point about how the federal government made a restriction.

03:13:39.000 I said there's examples of restrictions that have no impact.

03:13:44.000 You cannot make abortion illegal outright in this country right now.

03:13:48.000 Roe v. Wade.

03:13:51.000 KC v. Planned Parenthood.

03:13:54.000 I know what this is.

03:13:54.000 You're trying to stay on the show.

03:13:56.000 I hope you guys are having a good time, really.

03:13:59.000 I'm giving you a hard time.

03:14:01.000 I'm giving you a hard time.

03:14:02.000 No, I appreciate it.

03:14:03.000 I love this stuff.

03:14:04.000 Yeah, it's been an interesting discussion.

03:14:07.000 And it's good, you know, we usually don't have left-wing people on.

03:14:12.000 And it's not that we don't invite them, they usually don't come, but it's brave of you to come here.

03:14:18.000 He's offered, yeah.

03:14:20.000 No, he rescinded.

03:14:21.000 When I invited Sam on the show, he publicly accepted and then privately told me no.

03:14:25.000 Well, I know the whole situation.

03:14:27.000 And I published all the DMs.

03:14:28.000 I mean, you don't need to publish them with me.

03:14:29.000 That dude is a bad faith actor. 0.99

03:14:33.000 The scam on Steven Crowder for internet points.

03:14:36.000 Oh, yeah, great.

03:14:37.000 Let's not have a real conversation.

03:14:38.000 Well, that's what Sam wanted to have.

03:14:41.000 Sam wanted to actually discuss with Crowder.

03:14:43.000 Crowder was going to talk to Ethan Klein.

03:14:45.000 Right.

03:14:45.000 And Sam intruded upon the conversation.

03:14:47.000 Well, Ethan Klein invited him.

03:14:48.000 But, and Steven didn't know.

03:14:50.000 Well.

03:14:51.000 So this is why, like, for one of the reasons we don't do digital conversations, because they're bad, they're always bad faith.

03:14:57.000 Well, I got a surprise for you, open that door!

03:14:59.000 Nah, you wouldn't be able to get in the house with the security we have now, especially with all the squatting.

03:15:03.000 Maybe it was Kansas that outright banned it.

03:15:05.000 Was it Kansas?

03:15:06.000 Oh, there was something that actually, you brought the Sam thing, and something I meant to ask you actually.

03:15:12.000 You did a video, it's actually been on my mind for a little bit now, you did a video when that happened.

03:15:18.000 Which one?

03:15:19.000 About the Sam Cedar Crowder debate, that didn't happen.

03:15:23.000 uh... where you can climb invited sam and uh... there's something you said where i i i don't have

03:15:28.000 a verbatim it was something like

03:15:30.000 uh... if you're if you're if you're viewers are wrestling fans

03:15:35.000 uh... they might remember when uh...

03:15:36.000 stone cold steve austin ruined vince McMahon's big moment with mike tyson

03:15:42.000 vince McMahon started yelling you ruined it austin

03:15:45.000 You ruined it!

03:15:46.000 You had a moment like that where you were screaming at Sam and Ethan that they ruined it.

03:15:50.000 They ruined it.

03:15:50.000 I don't know anything about wrestling.

03:15:52.000 I think you made me think of somebody else.

03:15:54.000 No, no, no.

03:15:56.000 That was my anecdote.

03:16:00.000 You said something like, but what did they ruin?

03:16:01.000 I don't know what they ruined.

03:16:04.000 Steven Crowder wanted to have a real conversation with Ethan Klein, and Sam put on his clown nose and shut it down.

03:16:09.000 But Ethan Klein never wanted to... So he lied?

03:16:13.000 Yeah, sure.

03:16:13.000 I mean, come on, dude.

03:16:14.000 I mean, Ethan Klein doesn't do a politics show.

03:16:17.000 Look, you know, it's... I know what the end result of shows like this are.

03:16:22.000 Who was the networks that you mentioned that Blacklist sent? 1.00

03:16:27.000 Oh, I'm not going to talk about that publicly on air.

03:16:29.000 I think I know who it is.

03:16:30.000 There's a handful.

03:16:32.000 Yeah, Sam's blacklisted from a few places because he's a bad actor.

03:16:38.000 I have spoken with people and I've asked them and they have said, this is why we won't engage with him.

03:16:44.000 Well, I'm sure they think he's a bad actor.

03:16:46.000 Bro, the Steven Crowder thing was like, that's the kind of thing that gets you removed from bookings?

03:16:51.000 Bookings with who?

03:16:52.000 Networks.

03:16:54.000 Let's say big shows, well-funded shows, typical mainstream shows.

03:16:57.000 I'm not trying to, I'm actually not trying, it was a legit interest in terms of what you

03:17:02.000 were talking about.

03:17:03.000 Let's say big shows, well-funded shows, typical mainstream shows.

03:17:06.000 Like on the right, mainstream shows.

03:17:08.000 Mainstream shows.

03:17:09.000 Like on TV?

03:17:12.000 Mainstream shows across the board without me getting anybody in trouble because I'm

03:17:16.000 already dancing too close.

03:17:17.000 But bro, that stunt with Ethan was like, I can't believe he pulled that off.

03:17:22.000 I can't believe he did that.

03:17:24.000 That's a career ender.

03:17:25.000 Well, he's still going.

03:17:26.000 I mean, for sure, in his space.

03:17:30.000 Uh, he's got his own YouTube channel.

03:17:31.000 He's insulated in that regard.

03:17:33.000 But, like, you blacklist yourself when you tell people, look, we can have a conversation, we can have an argument, we can get heated.

03:17:41.000 We've even had people smack the microphone in rage.

03:17:43.000 Well, I didn't even do that.

03:17:44.000 Not even you.

03:17:45.000 And we've invited that guy back.

03:17:46.000 We were like, bro, we get it.

03:17:47.000 Things get heated, you're always welcome back on.

03:17:49.000 Because that's not... But Sam's stunt was like, not just for me, but a bunch of other people, like, that's not a guy you have on your show.

03:17:55.000 I was just interested in that, really, just out of my curiosity, truthfully.

03:17:59.000 Just wanted to know what you meant by it.

03:18:01.000 So, there are a lot of channels that focus on interpersonal, intercommentary drama.

03:18:06.000 We do a little bit.

03:18:07.000 We mostly try to avoid it, unless it's overwhelming.

03:18:10.000 Like, Joe Rogan controls the news cycle sometimes, so we'll talk about him.

03:18:14.000 But I don't address every single thing, every time someone talks about me or anything like that.

03:18:19.000 When you do too much, and I always give this advice to people who are starting channels, Avoid intercommentary drama.

03:18:25.000 Like, if you got 100k subs and there's another personality who's on the left or the right and they got 100k subs, ignore them.

03:18:32.000 Because if you start doing these conversations where it's like, did you hear what so-and-so said about me?

03:18:36.000 Did you hear what so-and-so did?

03:18:37.000 Which is what a lot of people do.

03:18:40.000 What happens at higher industry levels, they basically say, we don't want any of that.

03:18:47.000 Advertisers don't like that.

03:18:48.000 That's interesting, because you've got to sort of respect them that Sam Seder wouldn't censor himself in that way.

03:18:52.000 What do you mean?

03:18:53.000 I mean, you said that if you have one channel that's like 100k, another channel 100k, and you're one of those channels, you should not, you know, go after- Be yourself, be yourself.

03:19:02.000 That was Sam Cedar being himself.

03:19:04.000 For sure, for sure.

03:19:05.000 I'm not saying he doesn't have the right to choose us.

03:19:08.000 I'm saying the result of it has been blacklisting.

03:19:10.000 So you're saying to get on those other channels there's been a lot of people who self-censor themselves?

03:19:15.000 No.

03:19:16.000 So, there are a lot of people who do this.

03:19:18.000 I'm saying, if you're looking for a career, if you want to reach a higher level, you want... Personally, I think Sam's at a point where he knows exactly where his career is, and I think he's just... For sure, he's got a million subs.

03:19:31.000 I mean, he's probably super rich.

03:19:33.000 No, I think what I mean is he knows where his career is.

03:19:36.000 I'm not saying he's in some great position.

03:19:39.000 What I'm actually saying is he knows that he has a point that he has hit and that's where he's going to go based on his own content because he doesn't pull any punches.

03:19:47.000 He'll do whatever that he feels like he wants to do.

03:19:50.000 He doesn't self-censor himself just not to go after someone in terms of being worried about not getting on their channel.

03:19:55.000 But we're not talking about self-censorship.

03:19:56.000 Well, there is sort of self-censorship in a way if you don't want to go after someone specifically because you're worried about not getting put on their show.

03:20:01.000 I agree with that, and that's not what I'm talking about.

03:20:03.000 So, what I'm saying is, if your goal is to have a, like, you wanna talk about the news, you wanna talk about concepts, ideas, and events, you gotta avoid the interpersonal drama.

03:20:13.000 Well, a lot of what Sam goes after when it comes to interpersonal drama, it's not really like, it's not personal in the sense of like, oh, he was mean to me.

03:20:20.000 Like, he regularly does videos on, you know, Jimmy Dore, on Dave Rubin, because he disagrees vehemently with what they put out.

03:20:30.000 Every one of those videos you could look up.

03:20:32.000 And sure, he mocks them and they have fun with it.

03:20:34.000 That's sort of like the point of the show.

03:20:35.000 It's sort of like an old-school, like, leftist version of Howard Stern or something, I guess you can say.

03:20:40.000 But, um, you know, they mock these guys, but they always go after... Like, they're not, like, making fun of how Dave Rubin quaffed his hair or whatever.

03:20:50.000 You know, they're not making fun of Jimmy Dore's glasses or whatever.

03:20:54.000 Well, we're not the Young Turks.

03:20:55.000 No, I know.

03:20:56.000 I'm dragging them and everything, alright?

03:20:57.000 Sam goes after them and always makes it about the substance of what they say and their policy.

03:21:04.000 When he intruded on Crowder, he didn't just do it to go like, ah, surprise!

03:21:07.000 He wanted to have a legit discussion about COVID-19 policy.

03:21:12.000 He was supposed to have a conversation with Crowder.

03:21:14.000 This is why people like Crowder won't have conversations with him.

03:21:17.000 Well, he wouldn't have a conversation with him before Sam did that.

03:21:20.000 And this is exactly why.

03:21:21.000 But Sam didn't do that before.

03:21:22.000 No, no, no, no.

03:21:23.000 It's an issue of tendencies, personality, and the things he's done.

03:21:27.000 Like, so, that stunt, I know, resulted in, like, big shows being like, not that guy, man. 0.99

03:21:37.000 Damn, banned from the networks. 0.98

03:21:38.000 That's pretty cool. 1.00

03:21:39.000 Well, I don't know.

03:21:40.000 I'm not going to say every... I can't speak for every single person.

03:21:42.000 Sam Seder is bad!

03:21:44.000 What people with bigger shows are looking for is prestige and relatability and substance.

03:21:52.000 So you want to be authoritative, not elitist.

03:21:55.000 You want to create something of value that can help people in their daily lives.

03:21:59.000 When you see a stunt like what Sam did, The presentation is that this guy doesn't address issues that people relate to.

03:22:08.000 The stunt with Steven Crowder was a tribalist stunt, which plays well to culture warriors, which are a very small portion of the marketplace.

03:22:17.000 If you're trying to do a show that speaks to regular Americans, is either influencing policy, sharing your ideas, or just, you know, addressing issues that more people care about, Doing stunts and interpersonal drama diminishes that and makes people not want to engage, which makes the people at other shows say, look, what we want to do here at Timcast IRL is share ideas, even yours, with as many people as possible.

03:22:41.000 Sure.

03:22:41.000 We can't accomplish that with someone like Sam Seder.

03:22:44.000 So we don't have him on the show.

03:22:45.000 Well, I wouldn't be able to accomplish that with him.

03:22:46.000 He's a stunt guy.

03:22:48.000 He's a stunt guy.

03:22:49.000 Yes, he will.

03:22:51.000 When I tweeted, come on the show, he publicly says, I'll do it, then privately says, no, I won't.

03:22:55.000 I was stunned.

03:22:57.000 He played us to get clicks, and then went, woo, look at me, and he wasted my time.

03:23:01.000 I think there was a misunderstanding due to the COVID situation.

03:23:04.000 Honestly, if you invited him now, I bet he would come.

03:23:06.000 I bet he would come if you invited him now.

03:23:07.000 Because this is what he does for attention.

03:23:10.000 He's a bad faith actor. 1.00

03:23:11.000 All right, who when I said we'll fly you out and cover all the costs. He said how does this day work?

03:23:15.000 I said you got it. I'll dm you for details and then he privately says I ain't doing it. Hassan did the same thing,

03:23:20.000 bro Well, I'm glad you invited me.

03:23:22.000 And I came on.

03:23:25.000 And I think it was a good discussion.

03:23:27.000 I do.

03:23:27.000 And I think we've gone way too long.

03:23:28.000 I think I understand it.

03:23:30.000 Matt, it really was great.

03:23:31.000 I really do appreciate you coming.

03:23:32.000 You are welcome back anytime.

03:23:34.000 Thank you.

03:23:34.000 We'll have you on with other people.

03:23:36.000 If you ever have any ideas for anyone you want to talk to, I'd love to debate someone who's got a stronger political ideology or something.

03:23:45.000 We did Charlie Kirk and Vosch.

03:23:47.000 For the most part, had them have their conversation.

03:23:50.000 We'll have you on again, dude.

03:23:50.000 I really appreciate it.

03:23:51.000 For everybody who watched, look, we got crazy, man.

03:23:53.000 I'll tell you this man in all honestly We invite people on the left all the time. They won't do it.

03:23:58.000 All right. Well, I'll do it anytime We'll have you on again, dude. I really appreciate it for

03:24:01.000 everybody who watched Look, we got crazy man. I'm sorry about the super chats. I

03:24:05.000 appreciate all even really get to the the shooting that we can

03:24:09.000 I know.

03:24:09.000 We argued too much.

03:24:11.000 That's really bad.

03:24:12.000 I apologize for that, too.

03:24:15.000 But this is what usually happens.

03:24:16.000 Half the people are saying, it's time, it's done.

03:24:19.000 Half the people are saying, no, keep going.

03:24:20.000 And I'm just like, it's 11.30.

03:24:22.000 We're an hour and a half over.

03:24:23.000 We're not going to get a member segment.

03:24:24.000 And basically consider the member segment free.

03:24:27.000 Bring a friend?

03:24:27.000 Support us at TimCast.com.

03:24:28.000 We're going to have more shows like this, more questions, more debates, and we'll try

03:24:32.000 and do better and better each time we do it.

03:24:35.000 And bring a friend.

03:24:36.000 We'll have you come on with somebody else.

03:24:38.000 Bring a friend?

03:24:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:24:40.000 Find somebody who's not Sam.

03:24:41.000 Yeah, I think that would absolutely be good.

03:24:42.000 Well, no, I think that's a good idea.

03:24:43.000 I was about to say, can I bring Sam?

03:24:45.000 I think that's a good idea, because there were a lot of parts of the discussion I wanted to jump into.

03:24:48.000 I jumped into a couple of them because I really felt the need, but for the most part, I really didn't want this to become two-on-one.

03:24:54.000 So I think it would be great if you brought another person to back you up next time.

03:24:58.000 Then we could be really loud, and then this could go on until four in the morning.

03:25:01.000 I mean, sometimes my own streams, I go on for hours and hours.

03:25:06.000 What are we doing now?

03:25:07.000 Yeah, I mean, sometimes we go deep into the night.

03:25:09.000 We talk about one in the morning, two in the morning sometimes.

03:25:12.000 You know, if you were open to it, I could certainly promise you on my own that, you know, Sam Seder would behave with me here if I brought him.

03:25:19.000 It's not about behavior.

03:25:20.000 It's about, I think his shtick is tribal rage.

03:25:25.000 Well, that's interesting.

03:25:26.000 Yeah, that's interesting.

03:25:27.000 Yeah, like, we'll invite you on the show.

03:25:29.000 Yeah.

03:25:29.000 And we'll have a conversation.

03:25:30.000 I think, you know, he just shock jocks.

03:25:33.000 So, like, this Steven Crowder thing was a stunt.

03:25:35.000 The thing he pulled with me was a stunt.

03:25:36.000 His goal is to, like, woo, woo, woo to his bass.

03:25:39.000 My goal is to, like, bring you on in front of my bass and say, like, here's a dude who's got some ideas.

03:25:43.000 Let's hear him.

03:25:44.000 We'll argue about him.

03:25:45.000 Sure.

03:25:45.000 I think Sam is just, like, the Thanos thing is a really great example of, like, If a guy doesn't understand philosophy and I try to relate to him so he mocks me for it, that's not good faith.

03:25:56.000 Making an argument about me trying to relate to you is bad faith.

03:26:00.000 I'm not gonna entertain that.

03:26:01.000 You just hit me, I, you know, the original, I know you want to end the show, I'm sorry,

03:26:05.000 but it just hit me right now.

03:26:06.000 Um, you know, I thought that's not, I thought you said, do you want to just hit me?

03:26:10.000 That's what I heard.

03:26:11.000 I was like, I thought you were like joking.

03:26:13.000 I didn't know. 0.74

03:26:14.000 You want to just hit me right now?

03:26:15.000 You know, when you reached out to me and we reconnected to make this happen, it was over to like the libs of TikTok stuff, right?

03:26:22.000 And you brought that.

03:26:22.000 We didn't even get to talk about that because I actually, since we last discussed this, I actually went ahead and I did the work.

03:26:30.000 I made FOIL requests, Freedom of Information requests.

03:26:33.000 Oh, wow.

03:26:34.000 And I have all the information in terms of where she has lived, like her home address, and I can confirm that the information that she has given to Public Record, which is where all that information you see online would come from, she has never lived at that address that was on that real estate license.

03:26:53.000 According to who?

03:26:54.000 According to New York State.

03:26:56.000 So I have from New York State that she did.

03:26:57.000 I also have personal sources who've confirmed it.

03:27:00.000 You should show me because... I'll show you.

03:27:02.000 I can't show them.

03:27:04.000 I have voter records.

03:27:06.000 I have donation records in terms of a political campaign she donated to.

03:27:11.000 I have the case you're wondering, oh, okay, that maybe just shows, you know, doesn't prove it without a shadow of doubt.

03:27:16.000 Did Taylor Lorenz publish an address?

03:27:18.000 She published a business address for that real estate company.

03:27:25.000 And where did Libs of TikTok work? 1.00

03:27:27.000 Not there.

03:27:29.000 At that time, she was not living there, no.

03:27:31.000 I mean, she was not working there for that company.

03:27:33.000 She was not working there at the time that article was published, no.

03:27:36.000 So you're saying Taylor Lorenz did publish an address?

03:27:38.000 In the link that was originally posted.

03:27:40.000 That's without a doubt.

03:27:41.000 So we disagree beyond that, but we agree she doxxed her. 0.80

03:27:46.000 Well, she didn't live there. 1.00

03:27:48.000 She actually didn't even work there. 1.00

03:27:51.000 Is publishing an address doxing?

03:27:52.000 Is publishing an address doxing?

03:27:54.000 No, not if it's not connected to that person.

03:27:56.000 So it's her company, right?

03:27:57.000 She's listed as living there.

03:27:58.000 No, it's not her company.

03:27:59.000 Bro, you're trying so hard.

03:28:00.000 No, no, no, I'm not trying so hard.

03:28:01.000 Kayla Lorenz did.

03:28:02.000 No, no, no, no.

03:28:03.000 Bro, I have direct sources who have confirmed it.

03:28:05.000 Who?

03:28:07.000 You want me to expose the sources?

03:28:08.000 Well, did you hear it from... You don't have to expose... Did you hear it from the one person who'd be able to probably give you the outright answer, Libs of TikTok?

03:28:16.000 I will not confirm or deny the identity of the source who gave me the information.

03:28:20.000 Until the aftershow, so pay if you want to see it!

03:28:23.000 I mean, I also have the details for every person who has lived there over the past 10, 12 years.

03:28:29.000 So do we.

03:28:30.000 Yeah, it's good.

03:28:30.000 And I also have the mortgage on the building and I have the deed to the building, none of which she's connected to whatsoever.

03:28:38.000 Why did they remove the address?

03:28:39.000 Why did they remove the address?

03:28:40.000 Because they decided that it wasn't relevant to the story because she didn't... Why did they deny posting the address?

03:28:44.000 I don't know why they did that.

03:28:45.000 I don't know.

03:28:46.000 I can't tell you.

03:28:47.000 They posted an address where she was listed as working, where she was listed as living, according to public records.

03:28:52.000 But she's not living.

03:28:52.000 Where I have sources who say she did, and there you go.

03:28:57.000 So, bro, if you want to argue the semantics on DASHA... Offline, I would love it if you show me the information you have, like once we end the show.

03:29:04.000 I would love for you to show that to me.

03:29:05.000 I will pull it up.

03:29:06.000 And I could show... I actually brought the...

03:29:09.000 Let's wrap things up.

03:29:12.000 This happens all the time.

03:29:13.000 We're like before a show, I'll assume we're going to talk about some things and do some research.

03:29:16.000 And then like this conversation goes in so many different directions, basically every episode.

03:29:21.000 Right.

03:29:21.000 But we'll, we'd love to chat with you guys.

03:29:24.000 Smash the like button.

03:29:25.000 Uh, there's your free extra hour and a half.

03:29:28.000 I'm sorry with super chats and they got nuked.

03:29:30.000 And then we just argued too much.

03:29:32.000 You're welcome.

03:29:32.000 Tim cast viewers.

03:29:33.000 It was all on me.

03:29:34.000 Absolutely.

03:29:35.000 But we'll just consider the members only having been free for this one round.

03:29:38.000 And if you like the show and you want to help support us, go to TimCast.com, sign up, support our journalists, support our infrastructure, support our work.

03:29:45.000 And you can follow the show at TimCast IRL.

03:29:47.000 You can follow me at TimCast.

03:29:48.000 Matt, do you want to shout anything out?

03:29:49.000 Yeah, sure.

03:29:50.000 Follow me on Twitter at Matt Binder.

03:29:52.000 And, you know, all my details are on there.

03:29:54.000 We didn't even talk about Cryptocurrency, oh my god!

03:29:57.000 Greatest thing ever.

03:29:58.000 I disagree.

03:29:59.000 Guys, don't do this.

03:30:00.000 Please don't do this.

03:30:02.000 Go to atmatbinder, check me out there.

03:30:04.000 And I do a YouTube show twice a week.

03:30:08.000 I actually take calls, which means you can call into my show.

03:30:11.000 There's no screener.

03:30:12.000 I literally open up Skype, I give you my Skype username, I take the calls as they come in, and I have a discussion with literally anybody and everybody, leftist, conservative, right-winger, anyone who calls in, open for discussion, even pro-Bitcoin people.

03:30:27.000 And, you know, call in, check it out.

03:30:30.000 At Matt Binder, all the details will be there.

03:30:31.000 I got a ringer.

03:30:33.000 It's unfair to you, but I have to do it.

03:30:36.000 Binder is wrong on all counts.

03:30:37.000 The Juan Carlos Vera settlement was for an invasion of privacy lawsuit and had nothing to do with allegedly deceptive edits in any way.

03:30:44.000 Even the New York Times' own public editor revisited the Acorn tapes and found that, quote, the record does not support O'Keefe's detractors about Acorn.

03:30:52.000 According to Acorn's own lawyer, quote, They said what they said.

03:30:56.000 There is no way to make this look good.

03:30:57.000 Second, Binder's claim that Minnesota allows ballot harvesting is similarly wrong.

03:31:02.000 The New York Times made a similar claim.

03:31:04.000 We sued them.

03:31:05.000 They filed a MTD.

03:31:07.000 We won.

03:31:08.000 Then the New York Times was forced in their answer to admit that the law banning ballot harvesting was always in place and their article was wrong.

03:31:15.000 Binder would do well to retract that statement, as the Times has effectively done.

03:31:19.000 Okay, we have little time, so I will say that if everything there is true, I will retract those statements, sure.

03:31:25.000 And I'll also say that that researcher, I was reading it more after we got past that area of the conversation, so I should say this now for sure.

03:31:32.000 That researcher that you had about the YouTube study, what I read was actually him defending whether QAnon content should be allowed on social media.

03:31:44.000 So I retract and apologize for misstating exactly what that piece was all about.

03:31:49.000 Yeah, well, I mean, no, really, it takes a big man to apologize, and also, it's tough coming on a show where people have adversarial views to yours, so we really do appreciate you coming out here.

03:31:57.000 And you didn't have a computer.

03:31:58.000 Yeah, and you didn't have a computer.

03:31:59.000 That's, I just want to let people know.

03:32:00.000 Yeah, he did not have a computer.

03:32:01.000 Did people who watch this show, who weren't told that their guests, the guests had, like, if you didn't know the guests had a computer due to, like, Tim or Seamus or Lydia saying something, Have you ever viewed a computer at this desk?

03:32:13.000 I've never seen one on screen.

03:32:14.000 You guys frame it out.

03:32:16.000 I gotta be honest.

03:32:16.000 Everyone brings one.

03:32:17.000 Basically, I don't never notice.

03:32:19.000 I guess I shouldn't say every single person most but I've never noticed it on the screen.

03:32:24.000 Maybe I always assume that because here's one thing.

03:32:26.000 This is a giant table.

03:32:28.000 I've never noticed that before.

03:32:29.000 I thought you all had your own desks and maybe if I did see a screen I thought there was just a monitor in front of them.

03:32:34.000 We have a wide shot.

03:32:34.000 We never use it.

03:32:35.000 Yeah, this is just one big table we're all sitting at.

03:32:38.000 I really thought we were at separate desks.

03:32:40.000 And again, I'm sorry for doing this.

03:32:42.000 I know you guys are tired.

03:32:43.000 No, no, again, we really appreciate being here.

03:32:46.000 Honestly, honestly, it's not easy.

03:32:52.000 And so I just want to shout out Freedom Tunes.

03:32:54.000 I also want to shout out my special announcement.

03:32:55.000 I know the viewership is dwindling at this point, but I did promise you guys I would tell you we are going to be launching the website.

03:33:01.000 We're going to have that launched on May 30th, and we are going to have a member section.

03:33:07.000 We're calling it Freedom Tunes Plus.

03:33:08.000 It's going to be plus-size Seamus, and you are going to get an extra cartoon each week.

03:33:12.000 You're also going to get behind-the-scenes footage.

03:33:14.000 It's going to be five bucks a month.

03:33:15.000 So if you want to go over to freedomtunes.com, T-O-O-N-S, put in your email and do our mailing list when the website's launched.

03:33:22.000 You'll get all of it.

03:33:22.000 I love you all.

03:33:23.000 In the meantime, subscribe to the channel.

03:33:25.000 You're getting new videos this week.

03:33:26.000 I love you all.

03:33:27.000 I hate to do this.

03:33:28.000 You just reminded me.

03:33:29.000 I didn't check out my...

03:33:30.000 I'm on your YouTube show.

03:33:31.000 Are you kidding me?

03:33:32.000 I didn't check out my YouTube channel.

03:33:33.000 YouTube.com slash Matt Binder.

03:33:34.000 Subscribe even if you hate me and disagree with me vehemently.

03:33:39.000 Please subscribe, watch, and call in.

03:33:40.000 I really want to talk with you.

03:33:41.000 Good faith discussion for sure.

03:33:42.000 Please.

03:33:43.000 Very good.

03:33:44.000 YouTube.com slash Matt Binder.

03:33:46.000 I think, yep, there you go.

03:33:47.000 There's a wide shot.

03:33:48.000 That's it.

03:33:48.000 That's a huge table, isn't it?

03:33:49.000 That's the one.

03:33:49.000 Huge table.

03:33:50.000 Where can I see it?

03:33:51.000 There's Matt.

03:33:52.000 You'll see it appear up there in a second.

03:33:54.000 There's a delay of about a minute.

03:33:56.000 Yeah.

03:33:56.000 Anyway, I am here in the corner.

03:33:58.000 I was here this whole time, believe it or not.

03:33:59.000 Thank you very much for coming, Matt.

03:34:01.000 I hope you all appreciated our wild and crazy extra super long, and I hope you enjoyed this free bonus episode.

03:34:08.000 We swore a lot less than we usually do, but I feel like we got most of our points in. 0.98

03:34:12.000 Fuck. 0.99

03:34:12.000 Thanks very much again for coming, Matt. 0.99

03:34:18.000 You guys can follow me on Twitter at Minds.com, at Sarah Patchlitz.

03:34:21.000 We will see you all tomorrow!

03:34:23.000 Uh, same time.

03:34:25.000 And you can go to Chicken City Live and watch chickens.

03:34:27.000 And, uh, we'll see you tomorrow, 8pm as per usual.

03:34:30.000 We have, uh... I'm not gonna say what the guest is.

03:34:32.000 We usually don't.

03:34:33.000 But thanks for hanging out.

03:34:33.000 We'll see you all next time.

Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - May 16, 2022

Timcast IRL - Elon Musk Accused Of Violating NDA, CEO Says They CANT Audit Bots w-Matt Binder

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Summary

Transcript