Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - Timcast IRL - James O'Keefe, Andy Ngo, And Libby Emmons Join Discussing The State of Journalism

00:00:00.000 Peace.

00:00:09.000 And as Luke was discussing post-pandemic civil unrest, a police officer walks in.

00:00:16.000 And I'm sitting here, and I see the door open.

00:00:18.000 I see this cop just walk past, and I'm like, what's going on?

00:00:20.000 This cop's sitting outside the room. 0.98

00:00:22.000 Another cop fans me over, and I'm like, are you nuts? 0.85

00:00:25.000 We're sitting here live.

00:00:26.000 We've got tens of thousands of people.

00:00:27.000 And I wondered for a second if we were being raided like Project Veritas had been.

00:00:33.000 Like the police had come here to execute some kind of warrant.

00:00:35.000 I had no idea.

00:00:36.000 My first thought was like, okay, they came here exactly when we were doing the show on purpose, knowing that we were in a difficult position.

00:00:43.000 And now they're going to use this because I'm unavailable to basically run strategy and there's basically people here, security, and they're not going to know what to do in the face of this.

00:00:52.000 And sure enough, the police, in my opinion, lied about exigent circumstances to enter the property and do that check.

00:00:58.000 We had been swatted.

00:00:59.000 There was claims of an active shooter.

00:01:00.000 But once the police got here, they even say on their radios that they think it's a swatting incident.

00:01:05.000 They were told explicitly not to come in.

00:01:07.000 They came in anyway.

00:01:08.000 As it turns out, we were not being raided or anything.

00:01:10.000 But James O'Keefe and Project Veritas were raided.

00:01:14.000 And joining us to actually talk about the modern state of journalism is not just James O'Keefe, but also Andy Ngo and Libby Emmons.

00:01:20.000 So this should be a pretty insane conversation.

00:01:22.000 Of course, Luke is here.

00:01:24.000 Ian has the night off.

00:01:25.000 James, do you want to introduce yourself for those that are not familiar with your work?

00:01:28.000 Tim, my name is James O'Keefe, founder of Project Veritas, author of a new book called American Muckraker out a week from today.

00:01:35.000 So thank you for having me back.

00:01:37.000 Thanks for coming, man.

00:01:38.000 We appreciate it.

00:01:39.000 We got Andy.

00:01:40.000 Welcome, Andy.

00:01:41.000 Hi, Tim.

00:01:42.000 It's an honor to be here in person, finally.

00:01:45.000 I am an American independent journalist who writes about Antifa.

00:01:49.000 I have a book out called Unmasked.

00:01:51.000 It's out in paperback now in updated, new chapter.

00:01:55.000 Right on.

00:01:56.000 And of course, everybody who's standing behind Andy can be seen on camera, just so you guys know.

00:02:00.000 Just so you guys know, hi.

00:02:01.000 And then we have Libby Emmons of the Postmillennial.

00:02:03.000 Hey, everyone.

00:02:04.000 I'm Libby Emmons.

00:02:04.000 I'm the Editor-in-Chief with the Postmillennial.

00:02:06.000 And of course, Lukard Kowski of We Are Change.

00:02:08.000 Hey guys, you know, the media is pretty bad.

00:02:10.000 I would say just as bad to the point where some people are making t-shirts comparing the media to the virus.

00:02:16.000 I can't believe some people are doing that, but if you're interested in maybe some of those shirts and supporting We Are Change, you can go to thebestpoliticalshirts.com because you do.

00:02:25.000 I'm here.

00:02:25.000 Thank you so much for having me.

00:02:26.000 This should be a great conversation.

00:02:28.000 And I'm pretty sure that I think almost everyone in here will be in the gulags in just a few years.

00:02:33.000 So welcome comrades.

00:02:34.000 Thanks for coming.

00:02:35.000 I am also here in the corner pushing buttons.

00:02:37.000 I'm trying to do the sound and the cameras.

00:02:38.000 As you can tell, I'm not doing the best job, but I'm excited to have these lovely people here.

00:02:41.000 here. I'm stoked for tonight. Before we get started, head over to Timcast.com, become

00:02:45.000 a member because we're going to have a special uncensored members only podcast with everybody

00:02:50.000 coming up around. We post it around 11 or so PM. So go to Timcast.com, become a member,

00:02:54.000 help support the work we do, support this show and all the journalists that we have

00:02:57.000 on staff. It is because of your membership we're able to keep doing this work. So we

00:03:01.000 appreciate it. Don't forget, like the like, like this video, smash the like button.

00:03:07.000 I was like, what's the word I'm looking for?

00:03:08.000 Smash the like button.

00:03:09.000 Smash the subscribe button as well.

00:03:11.000 Share this show with all your friends.

00:03:12.000 Tell them we are going to be having a, well, I gotta keep it family friendly.

00:03:18.000 I'll say something else.

00:03:19.000 We are all going to have a confirmation by a session ragging on the media.

00:03:23.000 And so we're really excited that you're here.

00:03:25.000 And let's just get started.

00:03:26.000 We'll talk about the modern state of journalism.

00:03:29.000 Of course, most of you know, we hosted Marjorie Taylor Greene.

00:03:32.000 Within not even 24 hours, we were swatted.

00:03:36.000 Then we hosted, I think, just like the next show, I think, after that was Micro, and we were slammed by a DDoS attack which exceeded a gigabit, which for those unfamiliar, I'm actually fairly surprised that was able to happen.

00:03:48.000 It was like a several gigabit international botnet that attacked us.

00:03:51.000 And so the work we do just on a talk show is, it's dangerous, especially for the establishment, for powerful interests.

00:03:58.000 And of course, the work that all of you guys do is extremely dangerous.

00:04:00.000 And thus, let's just talk about what happened with you, James.

00:04:03.000 You have a development on the FBI raid on your headquarters and you.

00:04:06.000 That's right.

00:04:07.000 Well, the federal judge in New York, and thank you again for having me.

00:04:13.000 A lot has happened since I last saw you, by the way.

00:04:15.000 Yeah.

00:04:15.000 You've been raided.

00:04:17.000 You got swapped people.

00:04:18.000 I get raided by the FBI.

00:04:19.000 And I'm proud to sit here next to my friend Andy Ngo.

00:04:25.000 Andy is featured in the first chapter of this book, which the first chapter is called Suffering.

00:04:29.000 It's called Suffering.

00:04:31.000 The book American Muckricker.

00:04:32.000 Yes.

00:04:32.000 He's been through some physical violence.

00:04:36.000 I've been through a different type of violence directed at us from the state.

00:04:40.000 10 to 12 FBI agents showed up at my house in November and took my phones.

00:04:46.000 And we'll talk more about that here.

00:04:49.000 And they did that, not despite the fact that we're doing journalists, but because we're doing journalism.

00:04:56.000 And that's how far it's gotten.

00:04:57.000 So a federal judge in New York, the Southern District of New York, also known as the Sovereign District of New York, because they're quite autonomous with their decision making, ordered the FBI to stop doing that and then order what's called a special master to oversee the FBI, which is very rare.

00:05:13.000 You can count on one hand how often that happens.

00:05:16.000 The federal judge citing journalistic privilege, Tim, and this federal judge was not a Trump appointee, he was an Obama appointed federal judge.

00:05:23.000 And what was amazing to me when that happened was that the ACLU defended us, the Reporters Committee defended us, the Society of Professional Journalists defended us, which showed me there still is this very narrow consensus in this country between left and right.

00:05:38.000 So today we filed a motion that the U.S.

00:05:42.000 attorneys argued that we should pay for this special matter.

00:05:46.000 I think we have some wind coming in.

00:05:48.000 Yeah, you can hear it whistling.

00:05:49.000 Whistling.

00:05:50.000 Maybe that's a sign.

00:05:51.000 Yeah.

00:05:53.000 The ominous wind right as he begins talking.

00:05:55.000 Ominous wind in the background.

00:05:57.000 That's what that was.

00:05:58.000 The soundtrack of our life.

00:06:01.000 So the U.S.

00:06:02.000 attorneys, bottom line is the U.S.

00:06:04.000 attorneys argued before the judge And before they assigned the special master, the US

00:06:09.000 attorney said, well, your honor, James O'Keefe is not a journalist.

00:06:12.000 The judge asked why.

00:06:14.000 And the US attorneys, the prosecutors said, well, your honor, James O'Keefe does not get permission, consent, from

00:06:20.000 the people that he reports on.

00:06:21.000 It's non-consensual reporting and recording. 0.75

00:06:24.000 Wait, what the hell?

00:06:24.000 Which is such an irre— Right?

00:06:26.000 That's like a 2 plus 2 equals 5.

00:06:28.000 But this is what they wrote in the motion.

00:06:30.000 The judge rejected that argument, thank God.

00:06:32.000 There still is some sanity in New York, and appointed this special master.

00:06:36.000 But now the US attorneys are saying we should pay.

00:06:39.000 The journalists should pay.

00:06:41.000 The government.

00:06:43.000 This is extraordinary.

00:06:44.000 We should just let the people of America know that at the New York Times, before they cover any story about, say, James, they call him and get permission first.

00:06:51.000 Or before they release, you know, Donald Trump's tax records or his personal information, they of course get consent from the people that they're reporting on all the time.

00:06:58.000 You know, it's standard protocol.

00:06:59.000 And definitely before someone gets doxxed.

00:07:01.000 Like when the New York Times tried to doxx Tucker Carlson, they of course got permission first.

00:07:07.000 Or when CNN goes after grandmas who are posting on Facebook.

00:07:10.000 Right.

00:07:10.000 Yeah.

00:07:11.000 They definitely get permission from those grandmas. 1.00

00:07:13.000 So this is an extraordinary, this is an extraordinary, I guess, Rubicon that we've not crossed yet.

00:07:20.000 Now they're starting to put people in handcuffs for doing stories they don't want done.

00:07:25.000 Right.

00:07:26.000 Yeah, it's not enough to just censor the stories on social media.

00:07:30.000 Now they want to come after people for actually just doing the stories in the first place.

00:07:33.000 I wonder what would have happened to the New York Post if these kinds of rules were in place last year.

00:07:37.000 And then the New York Times, and you did a few shows on this since I last saw you, the New York Times published my attorney-client privilege documents.

00:07:44.000 That's a whole new level of insane.

00:07:46.000 We do a whole show on that, but what's fascinating is that the New York Times actually did an article saying, it's a crime to transport stolen documents across state lines.

00:07:55.000 Well, I guess the New York Times says it's a crime to transport stone, which means that every report of the New York Times should be in jail.

00:08:04.000 Yeah, because that's especially the reporting that on you.

00:08:06.000 I mean, maybe they should be rated by the FBI for publishing my attorney client privilege documents.

00:08:11.000 But look at where the New York Times has gone.

00:08:14.000 They're not adversarial journalists.

00:08:16.000 When they say that stuff, it's because the mask is off.

00:08:19.000 The New York Times is a mouthpiece of the state or of some kind of establishment elitist power.

00:08:25.000 They have a symbiotic relationship with the FBI and Pfizer.

00:08:29.000 And that's ironic, isn't it?

00:08:31.000 Who was it who was on who was saying that the New York Times, Bhatia Angersargon, that the New York Times has effectively just decided their audience is the upscale, upper-class, urban liberal, and they don't care about anybody else anymore, so that's just what they're going to pander to?

00:08:44.000 I think that's exactly right.

00:08:44.000 You can see in the way that their stories are written that that's what they're trying to do.

00:08:48.000 I mean, if you read their stories in an NPR voice, it's exactly the same as listening to NPR.

00:08:53.000 Right?

00:08:54.000 Well, there's a lot to say.

00:08:55.000 I mean, I could talk for an hour about this, but there's a lot to unpack here.

00:08:58.000 Well, so let's start from the beginning.

00:09:01.000 You were investigating, was it a story about Biden's daughter?

00:09:05.000 Ashley Biden's diary.

00:09:07.000 And by the way, most people don't know that Ashley Biden has a daughter named Ashley. 0.53

00:09:10.000 Joe Biden has a daughter named Ashley.

00:09:14.000 I'm sorry, Joe Biden has a daughter named Ashley.

00:09:16.000 And a source sent us this document, this diary.

00:09:21.000 And we looked into it.

00:09:22.000 I made the decision not to publish it because I couldn't verify with 100% certainty that it was hers.

00:09:27.000 I was like 99 or whatever percent, but I wasn't 100%.

00:09:30.000 And even if I could verify that it was Ashley Biden's diary, I couldn't verify what she wrote in the diary happened.

00:09:37.000 She talked about having inappropriate showers with her dad.

00:09:39.000 Whoa.

00:09:40.000 Does that mean that she's... Wow.

00:09:42.000 What does that mean?

00:09:43.000 And I felt like, you know, and by the way, This is the crazy part about this Twilight Zone dystopian series of events.

00:09:51.000 Someone sends me something.

00:09:52.000 I try to corroborate it.

00:09:54.000 I'm unable to.

00:09:55.000 And I say, well, let me try to give this back to her.

00:09:57.000 She wouldn't take it.

00:09:57.000 So I give it to law enforcement.

00:09:59.000 What more could a responsible, ethical journalist, let alone human being, do?

00:10:03.000 And that's the scary part.

00:10:04.000 What ought I have done?

00:10:06.000 What should I have done?

00:10:08.000 But then they raid me.

00:10:09.000 And people come to my home at 6am, I'm not a morning person, my first thought when they open up, my first thought was, sorry to bang on your table, but I'm a show person, is how much time do I have until they break the door down?

00:10:25.000 And I'm waking up, I'm pounding, I'm waking up and I'm thinking, okay, let me run to the door like in my underwear.

00:10:31.000 And then I go to open the door and then before I turn the door, I was like, are they going to shoot me?

00:10:35.000 How do I do this in a way where I don't get killed?

00:10:38.000 And I opened the door and there's all these bright lights and they put me in handcuffs.

00:10:43.000 Were you in your underwear?

00:10:44.000 Yes.

00:10:45.000 I mean, I'd just woken up.

00:10:46.000 Yeah.

00:10:47.000 And then they throw me against the hallway wall outside my apartment.

00:10:51.000 My neighbors are, I mean, this is, I think I'm under arrest, but for what?

00:10:56.000 What have I done?

00:10:57.000 They actually arrest you and take you?

00:10:58.000 They put me in handcuffs and then eventually they showed me a search warrant.

00:11:03.000 Wow. 0.98

00:11:04.000 On the search warrant it listed, I'm not making this shit up, accessory after the fact, and 0.98

00:11:10.000 misprison of a felony. 0.98

00:11:13.000 Accessory after the fact.

00:11:14.000 These are, these are, they haven't been charged with anything, but these are absurd insinuations

00:11:19.000 of a crime.

00:11:20.000 Again, if it's a crime to be sent a document which may or may not be stolen, then you might

00:11:25.000 as well jail all the journalists in America.

00:11:28.000 So there was a theory, James, what was happening here.

00:11:31.000 I mean obviously you made the right moves.

00:11:32.000 You went to the authorities.

00:11:33.000 You weren't sure so you didn't publish.

00:11:35.000 You did everything right here.

00:11:37.000 But they still decided to raid you and people are theorizing that they did this because there could have been federal agents that were the ones that originally sent you this diary to kind of set you up to get an excuse to get into your electronic devices because they knew potentially someone else was reaching out to you for a bigger story that they needed to stop.

00:11:57.000 That's one of the theories out there.

00:11:59.000 Do you think that's true?

00:12:00.000 Because every step of the way here the feds acted incorrectly.

00:12:05.000 I don't want to speculate.

00:12:06.000 I don't want to... That is a theory.

00:12:08.000 Is it a pretext?

00:12:09.000 Is it a form of intimidation?

00:12:10.000 I mean, even the New York Times reporter Mike Schmidt was, like, stumbling and bumbling and fumbling on MSNBC when asked, well, would they really raid the home if it wasn't actually by a diary?

00:12:21.000 A diary?

00:12:21.000 It's just so crazy, there's no answers.

00:12:26.000 Does that authenticate the diary then?

00:12:28.000 I would think so.

00:12:30.000 And that then implicates, well then you've got witness corroboration if the diary is true about inappropriate behaviors with children from President Joe Biden.

00:12:39.000 It wouldn't be the first time there have been these insinuations.

00:12:42.000 I've seen the videos.

00:12:43.000 I either.

00:12:44.000 Persistent sniffing.

00:12:46.000 James, I do want to say that I think you made the right decision in passing up on the contents of the diary when you were originally in possession of it.

00:12:55.000 What I tell young journalists and new journalists is that if you cannot 100% verify something, you don't report it out.

00:13:04.000 Correct.

00:13:04.000 Even on even on that one percent of doubt.

00:13:06.000 And that means often you miss out on scoops that end up being accurate that other people pick up.

00:13:11.000 And it's unfortunate and it's disappointing when that happens.

00:13:14.000 But.

00:13:17.000 I wish The New York Times had your standards.

00:13:18.000 I wish CNN and MSNBC.

00:13:20.000 Because they'll just say like, you know, source says.

00:13:22.000 I love when they'll say like a source close to Donald Trump's.

00:13:26.000 People familiar with the matter. 0.94

00:13:28.000 People familiar with Trump's thinking have said he wants to beat children or some insane nonsense.

00:13:33.000 The New York Times, Andy, the New York Times did a story about, they published the attorney-client memos, and a judge in New York has done an extraordinary act of telling them to sequester those attorney-client memos.

00:13:44.000 And the New York Times wrote a headline that said, Documents show how far deceptive reporting practices could go before running afoul of federal laws.

00:13:53.000 Do you know another way to say that?

00:13:55.000 We check with lawyers to make sure everything we were doing was legal.

00:13:59.000 But do you see how they worded it?

00:14:01.000 It's not so much that they lie, it's that they use this sort of, you have to like twist the newspaper article a little bit to know what they're saying.

00:14:10.000 They don't say what's false, they omit.

00:14:14.000 Well, so that statement's true, right?

00:14:16.000 But it's framing.

00:14:17.000 It's framing it in a very... It sounds like we skirted the law.

00:14:22.000 And that's the scariest part about this whole ordeal, because it was a little terrifying, is that what was I supposed to do?

00:14:29.000 You think, hindsight, right?

00:14:32.000 What more could we have done?

00:14:34.000 We even called, we even contacted the Biden campaign and tried to ask for comment, but the New York Times framed that as leverage.

00:14:41.000 We tried to leverage the dire.

00:14:43.000 And then Rachel Maddow said, we tried to extort the president.

00:14:47.000 So a request for comment becomes leverage, becomes extortion.

00:14:51.000 Do you see how the game is played?

00:14:54.000 And it's very terrifying at times.

00:14:56.000 I will say too, not to derail too much, but CNN's ratings are down 90%.

00:14:59.000 In the key demo, they barely get viewers at all.

00:15:03.000 It's probably just hotel lobbies.

00:15:04.000 So I don't know if that's any consolation.

00:15:06.000 It's probably not.

00:15:07.000 But when Rachel Maddow talks and these stories break, I don't know if it's going to matter in 5 or 10 years because they're losing.

00:15:16.000 Yes, but when you have a dying animal, they usually act the most violent right before they die.

00:15:22.000 Well, and that's what they're doing.

00:15:23.000 They're giving up all of their standards.

00:15:24.000 Yes.

00:15:24.000 And then when we look at, you know, the state, it is in a place that's extremely vulnerable.

00:15:30.000 The official story, the official narrative that they told us for two years now is breaking, shattering right in front of our face.

00:15:35.000 And then people are realizing, hey, we were lied to.

00:15:38.000 Throughout recorded human history, whenever there's pandemics, usually it leads to civil unrest.

00:15:44.000 So there's a big probability that this is going to happen here.

00:15:47.000 And I think they're trying to hit the mole with the hammer as much as they can.

00:15:50.000 There's a lot of moles popping up, but I think there's a lot of anger by the state.

00:15:54.000 Within minutes, the handcuffs were still, my wrists were still sore.

00:15:59.000 Within minutes of this happening, I got a text message from Mike Schmidt at the New York Times, national security reporter.

00:16:05.000 How the hell does he know?

00:16:06.000 This is the contents of a secret grand jury subpoena. 0.84

00:16:09.000 And why the hell are they leading me to the execution chamber?

00:16:12.000 I am on the same team as these people.

00:16:13.000 We are supposed to be speaking without fear or favor, which was the quote from Adolf Ochs, or whatever his name was, the founder of the New York Times.

00:16:20.000 I'll just mention, Project Veritas had one of the most important stories, probably of our generation, the ABC Amy Rohrbach story with Epstein.

00:16:31.000 Which contributed to this major investigation, which ultimately I think the Maxwell case is kind of being covered up.

00:16:37.000 We can get into that stuff, but Veritas, that's not partisan.

00:16:41.000 When you report on the story saying, this is a journalist saying, I had the interview, I had the story, and it didn't get out.

00:16:47.000 That was exposing powerful establishment elites, covering up a very serious scandal as an understatement.

00:16:52.000 That's right.

00:16:53.000 But why is the New York Times going after you?

00:16:57.000 You know, it's not just the New York Times.

00:16:59.000 I mean, it is all of these news outlets that falsely frame everything about Veritas in an effort to harm you when you're doing stories about, you know, powerful corporations.

00:17:09.000 And it's also social media.

00:17:10.000 Journalists should be on your side.

00:17:11.000 And it's also all the social media companies.

00:17:13.000 Right.

00:17:14.000 Have come after you, and they recently pulled one of your employees off as well.

00:17:18.000 Eric Spracklin is standing in the room with me.

00:17:20.000 Yeah, Eric, exactly.

00:17:20.000 Although I will say, and I want Andy to get in here, but we've trended on Twitter almost every story we've done.

00:17:25.000 That's correct.

00:17:25.000 The story we did last week on the Pentagon Papers, Department of Defense documents, which effectively are Pentagon Papers, trended number one on Twitter.

00:17:32.000 I'm banned on Twitter.

00:17:33.000 Project Veritas is banned on Twitter.

00:17:35.000 Well, it's not a side detail that an agent of the state is working with media organizations to be the first to break these stories that are extremely damaging where you know you don't have to be charged with any crimes.

00:17:35.000 What do you think, Andy?

00:17:53.000 It's the investigation and the reporting and media coverage on it that destroys reputations.

00:17:58.000 What happened to James here with how while he still have marks on his hand from the handcuffs that he's getting requests from the press for comment when nobody else knows about it.

00:18:08.000 Obviously agents of the state is working with the journalists and leaking information Similarly, when Roger Stone was arrested and CNN had been tipped off with the helicopter.

00:18:19.000 I think, I just, let's just say, you know, when you look at despotic regimes and tinpot democracies, like these are like characteristics of it.

00:18:29.000 I mean, this is disturbing and I don't, it surprises me that so much of the American public just kind of shrug their shoulders and, you know, praise these media organizations when I mean, I'm thinking right now, you know, with the state, you know, colluding with these big media companies to cover up malfeasance and corruption, it sounds fascistic.

00:18:54.000 And I just wish there was maybe some organization maybe that was called like something opposed to fascism, like no fascism, or maybe anti-fascism. 0.98

00:19:02.000 We'll call it anti-fuck for short. 0.96

00:19:04.000 And they would stand up to this kind of collusion between state 0.99

00:19:08.000 and massive powerful private enterprise.

00:19:10.000 Yeah, where's that at?

00:19:11.000 Where is the actual, and I know obviously, duh, we know anti-fascists,

00:19:14.000 but I'm like, where's the actual opposition from activists to say, you know, this is a bad thing?

00:19:19.000 Now, that being said, I will stress, James, you did get defended by some of these institutions

00:19:23.000 like the ACLU.

00:19:24.000 I did.

00:19:25.000 Because they crossed the line so far, even the ACLU was like, well, I guess we have to say

00:19:30.000 something.

00:19:30.000 One of the things that the, I hate to put it in left-right terms

00:19:33.000 because increasingly this seems to be about good versus evil.

00:19:36.000 And I don't necessarily think those lines are clear, but the left tends to overplay their hand. 1.00

00:19:42.000 They tend to take it too far and it ends up biting them in the ass. 0.99

00:19:46.000 That was a beautiful moment when Ben Smith at the New York Times, and if Ben is watching this, Ben Smith, media columnist at the New York Times, defended me. 0.99

00:19:52.000 He was the first person.

00:19:53.000 This was a few days afterwards and he says journalists should not be cheerleading this.

00:19:57.000 If you look at that tweet, he got ratioed hardcore.

00:20:00.000 No, put that O'Keefe in jail.

00:20:03.000 They don't care.

00:20:03.000 They just want to jail their, and people will say, lock her up and all that.

00:20:06.000 Like, I feel like, are we so Manichaean that we need to jail people who disagree with us?

00:20:11.000 No.

00:20:12.000 But Ben defended me.

00:20:13.000 And after Ben did, he gave all these other people the permission to do so.

00:20:17.000 ACLU, you know, all these organizations.

00:20:21.000 And by the way, Ben Smith is leaving.

00:20:23.000 the New York Times. Why is he doing that? Great question.

00:20:26.000 And we can, I can also report to you that there's kind of a schism inside the New York Times.

00:20:30.000 Well, it's not the first time. I mean, the major schism happened when Tom Cotton's op-ed ran and

00:20:35.000 it destroyed the op-ed section of the New York Times. Barry Weiss left. That's right. The

00:20:39.000 whole newsroom got shaken up.

00:20:42.000 That was an insane thing that happened, that Tom Cotton saying that the federal government should intervene in cities and deal with the civil unrest that was happening.

00:20:52.000 It broke the New York Times.

00:20:53.000 It broke the New York Times.

00:20:55.000 And the editorial page editor, whose name escapes me, the one we released on a deposition tape?

00:21:00.000 Oh, James Bennett.

00:21:02.000 James Bennett.

00:21:02.000 I have a posse, I have my entourage here.

00:21:05.000 We always travel with an entourage at Project Veritas.

00:21:07.000 James Bennett was actually a pretty moderate guy.

00:21:10.000 Yeah, he wasn't, yeah.

00:21:12.000 And they made him out to be a devil.

00:21:13.000 So I can report to you, because I have sources.

00:21:16.000 Anonymous sources?

00:21:17.000 Well, people I've covertly recorded I haven't released yet.

00:21:21.000 Who have told me there is a schism there.

00:21:22.000 But Tim, that was a beautiful moment in my life watching people who hate us.

00:21:28.000 I think there still is some principle.

00:21:30.000 There still is some overlap between the left and right in our society.

00:21:36.000 It's probably a bit reductive, or maybe simplistic, but there's two big camps when it comes to whatever's going out the establishment.

00:21:43.000 People who are willfully lying and manipulative for power, and people who are blindly going along and maybe just scared.

00:21:50.000 So there's probably a lot of people who saw what happened with the New York Times and Tom Cotton's op-ed, and they're like, I just want to get through this.

00:21:56.000 The problem I have with these people, it was Clifton Duncan tweeted, I'm probably going to screw it up, but he said that he's less concerned about those that are overtly engaged in malfeasance and evil, and he's more concerned about those who know what's going on but won't speak up.

00:22:10.000 I saw that too.

00:22:11.000 I thought that was really fascinating and made a lot of sense.

00:22:13.000 Well, the New York Times are also being kind of eaten up by hedge funds and the people who truly own them.

00:22:13.000 He's right.

00:22:18.000 I think this is why Jeff Bezos bought the Washington Post.

00:22:24.000 Because people are understanding this quote by Lord Northcliffe when he said, quote, news is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress.

00:22:31.000 All the rest is advertising.

00:22:33.000 These people are buying advertising.

00:22:35.000 They're buying PR.

00:22:36.000 They're buying favors for themselves, literally trying to brainwash the American public so their agenda, their narrative will pass and clear no matter how absurd.

00:22:45.000 They still push these ideas because these ideas are way more important than even the money that they put into these institutions that they're losing.

00:22:52.000 What's so fascinating about that, though, is so we're at the Postmillennial.

00:22:55.000 We, you know, I kind of think of us as the antidote to fear, right?

00:22:59.000 We're not corporate.

00:23:01.000 We're a small outlet.

00:23:02.000 You know, Andy and I run stories there all the time.

00:23:06.000 And what's really interesting is that we're getting attacked.

00:23:08.000 You know, we get attacked by these activists who are saying that we are aligned with specific interests.

00:23:14.000 And we're not.

00:23:15.000 They're defending the big outlets, the big corporate media outlets that are aligned with specific interests.

00:23:21.000 And here we are just like, you know, covering news stories, covering what we think is interesting, trying to get the truth out there.

00:23:27.000 And they attack us for doing that.

00:23:30.000 Well, Jeff Bezos bought the Washington Post in 2013, and after Google and Facebook snatched up most of these advertising models, hedge funds like Alden Global Capital, everything's been consolidated, newspapers are gone, investigative journalism is gone, ABC News cut their whole investigative bureau, and Jeff Bezos, in an extraordinary admission of the power of narrative amplified through big tech through his ownership of the Washington Post, said, quote, on a Medium post, My ownership of the Post is something I will be most proud of when I'm 90 and reviewing my life.

00:24:01.000 Not his Dr. Evil rocket ship company.

00:24:04.000 Not his Amazon company.

00:24:07.000 No, no.

00:24:07.000 His ownership of the Washington Post is his biggest achievement.

00:24:10.000 And I found that really amazing insight into the power of narrative.

00:24:16.000 I think the Washington Post and the New York Times, I may be giving them too much credit, are more powerful than all three branches of government.

00:24:23.000 Because government speaks through them.

00:24:25.000 Big tech prefers them and their algorithms.

00:24:27.000 Big tech doesn't do any journalism.

00:24:29.000 They just prefer, what do you think?

00:24:30.000 Wait, did Bezos say that before he became a spaceman?

00:24:33.000 Yes.

00:24:34.000 With his wiener rocket?

00:24:35.000 He's not proud of his wiener rocket?

00:24:37.000 Although he was formulating that.

00:24:39.000 But just one extra point here.

00:24:40.000 It's not just hedge funds.

00:24:41.000 It's not just Jeff Bezos.

00:24:42.000 It's also Bill Gates that donates hundreds of millions of dollars to the corporate media.

00:24:46.000 They don't need donations, but they willingly take it.

00:24:49.000 And with that money, of course, comes the narrative that they push.

00:24:53.000 If you're one of the higher-ups of these companies, and I've seen this first-hand, and you're looking at your bottom line, you don't care about the politics of the individual person writing stories.

00:25:02.000 You just don't want to lose money.

00:25:03.000 The guys who run the businesses don't care about news.

00:25:07.000 when I was at that ABC News company, that ABC Fusion, their attitude at the higher level

00:25:12.000 was what are we going to get clicks on?

00:25:14.000 So hire the people who write about the things you think will get clicks.

00:25:17.000 The marketing guys then said we got to do woke stuff, that's the way forward.

00:25:20.000 Okay, then hire young woke people and tell them to write about what they care about.

00:25:24.000 They didn't care if it was real, they didn't care.

00:25:26.000 I was told side with the audience, they said.

00:25:30.000 Side with the audience.

00:25:31.000 That means if there is a news story that is factual but would be offensive to the audience, we don't cover it.

00:25:36.000 That's the modern... Like I mentioned with the New York Times, or I should say, to quote, I think it was Bhatia Angarsargan, that the New York Times has found their audience.

00:25:44.000 They've said, screw everybody else, and that's what they're going for.

00:25:47.000 But that's what almost every organization does, especially right now.

00:25:51.000 I don't care who they are.

00:25:52.000 90% of all media outlets are like, we've got an audience and we're going to cater to that audience.

00:25:56.000 And that's the inverse of what they ought to be doing. 0.81

00:25:59.000 There's a journalist named Clarence Jones, and he wrote about journalism, that journalistic publishers need to be like bosses with balls.

00:26:08.000 At Veritas, we're a non-profit.

00:26:08.000 They need to have integrity.

00:26:10.000 People say, what's your business model?

00:26:11.000 We have, you know, 800,000 people give us money, sometimes a dollar, sometimes $10,000.

00:26:16.000 But we choose the hardest stories, and we don't settle lawsuits.

00:26:21.000 And this is the real crux of this book, American Mockraker.

00:26:23.000 Secrecy.

00:26:24.000 Transparency.

00:26:26.000 We don't settle lawsuits, Tim, because I don't fear people inspecting my operation.

00:26:30.000 Please do depose me.

00:26:32.000 I like being deposed.

00:26:33.000 They don't like being deposed.

00:26:35.000 Because when they enter a discovery process of litigation, you can see all the lies under oath.

00:26:40.000 Did you guys know that Donald Trump at his rally in Arizona banned FJB icons in merchandise and shirts and all that stuff?

00:26:47.000 Really?

00:26:48.000 I got no problem.

00:26:48.000 Yep.

00:26:49.000 We have that on TimCast.com.

00:26:50.000 We have a full report with the security guys telling people to take their shirts off, take their hats off.

00:26:54.000 You know, so people will say that, you know, this show or me or Trump supporters are right wing.

00:26:58.000 I think the SPLC was like Tim Pool is a right wing, you know, something or other who supports Trump.

00:27:02.000 And I'm like, uh, no, I just don't lie about him.

00:27:05.000 That's actually amazingly respectful of what Trump did.

00:27:09.000 I really respect that a lot.

00:27:09.000 Banning the FJB thing?

00:27:10.000 That he banned it.

00:27:11.000 And a lot of Trump supporters didn't like that.

00:27:13.000 A lot of Trump supporters didn't like that, but he had four years of people saying that to him as the president, and I think he probably knows how much that sucks to be like in charge of everything and have people keep saying like, You know, FDT at you all the time.

00:27:27.000 Yeah, but he said that he said this on the heels right after saying that it's hard to criticize Joe Biden because Joe Biden complimented him on all the work that he did with the vaccine.

00:27:37.000 But that's sort of a that's a different situation.

00:27:39.000 I mean, and also, let's not forget, like Donald Trump was a president.

00:27:43.000 He was holding executive office.

00:27:47.000 Has there ever been a president who's really worthwhile?

00:27:49.000 I mean, come on, like this is I think they should be criticized to the full extent.

00:27:53.000 I agree too.

00:27:55.000 That's the point.

00:27:55.000 But I respect a former president saying don't say that about the current president.

00:28:00.000 I respect that.

00:28:01.000 The important issue I guess I'm trying to get to is what the media is willing to say.

00:28:07.000 Who they're willing to criticize.

00:28:08.000 How often does CNN run, you know, Joe Biden has screwed this up, screwed that up, screwed this up?

00:28:13.000 They did, they, what was it, Trump's coverage was 98% negative?

00:28:17.000 And don't get me wrong, there is a lot of negative coverage about Joe Biden, and I think what happens is around August of last year, when we saw this flip in approval rating, Like you were mentioning, once someone says something, it makes it okay for the establishment or for the, you know, whatever you want to call it, democratic position, for the most part.

00:28:34.000 All of a sudden, people start ragging on Biden, and then we see some articles popping up where they're like, oh, okay, maybe there's something here.

00:28:40.000 But for the most part, the media is unwilling to step out of line with their own audience.

00:28:44.000 And some of that's economics, and some of that is because there's been a proximity to their sources.

00:28:50.000 They don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.

00:28:52.000 And that's the difference between sort of the journalism that we're talking about in American Mockraker and their journalism is to represent, be the ombudsman for the so-called administrative state.

00:29:04.000 Our whistleblower's release information the administrative state does not want revealed.

00:29:09.000 That makes all the difference in the world.

00:29:10.000 When a two-star general talks to the New York Times anonymously, we don't know the cadence or intonation of what that—we don't know what that person is actually trying to say.

00:29:20.000 And now they throw out these terms misinformation and disinformation.

00:29:22.000 We've talked about the New York Times lawsuit that I'm embroiled in, which is fascinating, because the New York Times admitted Tim in the response to our defamation lawsuit.

00:29:30.000 They got the facts wrong, and they still haven't corrected the article.

00:29:34.000 They admit it in court.

00:29:35.000 They got it wrong.

00:29:37.000 The guy had more than three ballots.

00:29:38.000 They said it wasn't illegal.

00:29:39.000 They admitted in court it was, and the article remains online uncorrected.

00:29:43.000 Have there been any fact-checkers on this one?

00:29:46.000 Has the New York Times Facebook traffic been suppressed as a result?

00:29:49.000 The New York Times thinks they're above the law.

00:29:51.000 No, I'm sure.

00:29:53.000 I say, you know, Dean Bakke, famously, executive editor of the New York Times.

00:29:56.000 Dean Bakke says, we don't get religion.

00:29:59.000 New York Times thinks they're God.

00:30:00.000 Yes, they do.

00:30:01.000 Think of it.

00:30:02.000 They thought they were God for a very long time.

00:30:03.000 What force or organization on planet Earth can hold the New York Times accountable?

00:30:09.000 Can anyone?

00:30:10.000 They lie.

00:30:11.000 No one cares.

00:30:12.000 Google and Twitter prefer them in the algorithms.

00:30:14.000 I sued them.

00:30:15.000 I sued them.

00:30:15.000 We sued them for defamation and won a victory.

00:30:18.000 And they still haven't corrected the article.

00:30:20.000 In fact, they're attacking the judge personally and viciously, which is something you shouldn't do, by the way.

00:30:27.000 I was surprised to see that, to be honest, because you're just going to make the judge rule against you.

00:30:30.000 But the New York Times is probably thinking, in the short term, yeah, we'll probably piss the judge off.

00:30:35.000 In the long term, he won't retain power.

00:30:37.000 And if it goes to the Court of Appeals, highest court in New York State, they don't care.

00:30:41.000 And if it goes to the Supreme Court and they lose, they'll say, Trump Court?

00:30:44.000 Think of it.

00:30:45.000 There's nothing that can hold them accountable.

00:30:47.000 And I think that they are more afraid than I am of them.

00:30:51.000 I know that to be true.

00:30:53.000 But this term misinformation, Tim, I think it's really about distrusting people to draw the acceptable conclusion based upon facts that are admittedly true.

00:31:03.000 I don't think it's about untrue facts anymore.

00:31:05.000 I think, look, let me pull up the story and get your thoughts on it.

00:31:09.000 This is ABC7.

00:31:11.000 Nearly half of Democrats say fines and prison time appropriate for questioning vaccines.

00:31:16.000 Just questioning them.

00:31:17.000 They also said there's, I believe, 45% would intern the unvaccinated, meaning they would take you to a designated isolated facility.

00:31:26.000 I think 59% were in favor of house arrest.

00:31:29.000 So when you see the alignment of the New York Times, when you see the media, when you see that there are this many people in this country who are willing to outright just arrest someone for speaking out against them, it kind of sounds like it's beyond just the media.

00:31:43.000 There's something deeply rotten expanding or growing within the core of the American psyche.

00:31:48.000 It's a core value.

00:31:49.000 It's the primary value of American society, which is part of the American founding.

00:31:57.000 I mean, this goes back to, you know, Cicero.

00:32:00.000 You have to have information to make informed decisions.

00:32:04.000 And that's the whole, that's why the First Amendment is first.

00:32:06.000 It's a cliche.

00:32:07.000 I question whether half of Democrats actually believe that.

00:32:11.000 I think that's probably, I'm skeptical about the amount of people the media is telling you actually believe.

00:32:17.000 What was the actual question on the poll?

00:32:20.000 I suppose that would be a good one to pull up.

00:32:21.000 We could definitely look that up, but I think the scarier aspect here is that a lot of these things that some of these Democrats are calling for are policies that are implemented already in other parts of the world, and Democrats and other establishment statists want to implement here in the United States.

00:32:38.000 29%, according to this Rasmussen poll, Of Democrats supported to taking children away from ... people if they refuse to take the vaccine that's a policy ... that has already been instituted in some places in ... Canada when we talking about where we're talking about ... detaining people that's happening in Austria and ... Australia and in other parts around the world or ready so ... we have to understand that this slippery slope to ... dystopian total totalitarian nightmare crap hole society is.

00:33:08.000 Very close to happening because of this kind of echo chamber delusional thinking that's being perverse by the corporate media So what I see happening is that there are very evil people like James mentioned earlier It's a battle between good and evil who know full well what they're doing and what their plans are they want to lock you up They want to take away your rights and they're lying about you on perfect on purpose Gleefully willfully and we're having a fairness battle.

00:33:31.000 I don't think that they're going to win.

00:33:33.000 I'm actually quite hopeful everyone's cynical and And it pisses me off.

00:33:37.000 I mean, I talk about this too in this book, a chapter called Propaganda.

00:33:42.000 Consent must be informed, not manufactured.

00:33:45.000 All serious theories of democracy were republic, which is also a democracy, including the economic theory hinge on the notion that voters have reliable access to information.

00:33:54.000 I think technology allows us to do that.

00:33:55.000 Again, let me remind your audience.

00:33:57.000 I am banned on Twitter.

00:33:59.000 My organization's banned on Twitter.

00:34:01.000 And our story was the number one trending story in the world.

00:34:03.000 Why?

00:34:04.000 Because of the information that we released.

00:34:07.000 Documents inside the Department of Defense, DARPA, a Marine Corps major fellow at the Department of Defense, wrote about this COVID and wrote about the fact that It was too risky for the Department of Defense to approve what was going on.

00:34:22.000 And that story, it was about the strength of the information.

00:34:26.000 And I believe that human nature is such that if people are able to see it for themselves, first-hand participant journalism, not second-hand anonymous sources, I think we're going to prevent society's collapse by continuing to do that journalism.

00:34:40.000 I think it's working.

00:34:40.000 I agree.

00:34:41.000 I mentioned this with, you know, CNN and MSNBC having a ratings collapse.

00:34:45.000 Getting back to the darkness of this when we see this poll from Rasmussen, I do think it's fair to point out that maybe it's a bad poll from Rasmussen.

00:34:54.000 Maybe the questions aren't right, but who knows?

00:34:56.000 But I will say this.

00:34:57.000 Kamala Harris was raising money through Twitter to bail out rioters in 2020, some of the most extreme riots I've ever seen.

00:35:05.000 When I talk to people, I can't remember... In Minneapolis.

00:35:08.000 In Minneapolis.

00:35:09.000 But not only that, but I mean, the riots were across the country.

00:35:12.000 So when we're seeing some of the worst riots we've seen in 50 years, maybe, and I talk to people about the potential for civil conflict, civil unrest, or whatever, and they say, oh, it's not that bad.

00:35:22.000 It's because we're frogs in a pot that are boiling.

00:35:25.000 Andy, you report on this stuff.

00:35:27.000 You expose who these violent extremists are.

00:35:30.000 The media lies about you.

00:35:32.000 All of these different institutions lie about you.

00:35:33.000 They make things up.

00:35:36.000 There is... I don't know how you describe it.

00:35:38.000 I call it a cult.

00:35:39.000 They are in line with each other, but it's not like they actively collude at a national level where like a message goes out and say, everyone, say Andy knows, you know, wrong.

00:35:48.000 They just all do it.

00:35:50.000 Yeah, I was quite naive in 2019 before I became more of a well-known figure and I was just a regional person in the Pacific Northwest.

00:35:59.000 After my assault in the summer of 2019, that punches, kicks, and the milkshakes, the hospitalization for the traumatic brain injury, I was naive enough at the time that I thought the media organizations would be out to support me.

00:36:17.000 I remember Jake Tapper, I believe, was one of the very few center-left journalists who issued a tweet that condemned what happened to me, and I really appreciated that.

00:36:27.000 So much blowback that he ended up deleting that.

00:36:30.000 Wow, really?

00:36:32.000 And then all the hit pieces came out in a way that seemed sort of coordinated and James can speak to this and I was watching kind of in real time with in fascination at how they can destroy someone's reputation.

00:36:47.000 There was initial outpouring support for me, so then what happened was a local blog in Portland interviewed somebody and gave this person a pseudonym.

00:36:54.000 So I have no idea who this person is.

00:36:55.000 He accused me of being in collaboration with this far-right group in Portland.

00:37:01.000 So one, I couldn't confront my accuser.

00:37:05.000 Legally, I couldn't do anything either.

00:37:07.000 We don't even know the identity of this person, so we can't even write a cease and desist letter.

00:37:11.000 And then this damning story and headline, which is false, that was published in Portland Mercury.

00:37:17.000 They never reached out to me for comment, by the way.

00:37:19.000 It was then repeated in other publications like Slate and Vox, etc, etc.

00:37:26.000 And then that is cited in your Wikipedia.

00:37:28.000 And then when somebody Googles you who doesn't know who you are, that's the first thing they see.

00:37:32.000 And that is your reputation.

00:37:35.000 I wonder how long it's gonna last, though.

00:37:36.000 You know, they go after Joe Rogan, the most popular podcast in the world.

00:37:40.000 And the stupidest thing you can do is lie about Joe, because the 11 million people on average who watch his show, the 50 million who've seen some of his biggest shows, the people who are fans of MMA and know him, or who just watch his Netflix stand-up, they see this story and they go, yeah, that's not true.

00:37:56.000 And all of a sudden, you lie about someone as popular as Joe, and people start waking up. 0.98

00:38:01.000 And now we're starting to see it, we're seeing a major shift.

00:38:03.000 This poll came out, Gallup released this, one of the most credible polling institutions, that as of the fourth quarter of 2021, more people identify as Republican or Republican-leaning than Democrat for the first time since I believe it was 1991.

00:38:16.000 There actually may have been a period around the 2000s where it was fairly even between the two, but this is a gap now of five points, right?

00:38:23.000 I'm not saying Republicans are the right answer.

00:38:25.000 Or that, you know, Democrats are always the wrong answer.

00:38:28.000 But regular people are looking at the establishment.

00:38:30.000 They're associating it with one side of the political spectrum and saying, I don't want to have anything to do with that.

00:38:34.000 Well, it's not just Joe.

00:38:35.000 It's Joe also influencing people like Dana White, influencing people like Aaron Rodgers that are going out there and speaking these larger truths.

00:38:44.000 And some people would say breaking the mass psychosis, the mass formation psychosis that, of course, the corporate media in unison tells us doesn't exist.

00:38:53.000 As of course the Financial Times literally calls for psyops, as of course even the Canadian Joint Operations Command even admittedly said that they have relied on propaganda techniques used in Afghanistan with COVID because they saw it as a unique opportunity to test out their propaganda techniques on the general public.

00:39:13.000 You know what you were saying about Joe Rogan, that's why they try and silence him.

00:39:16.000 That's why these doctors and researchers and scientists came out to try and Not fair to call them that.

00:39:22.000 Not fair to call them the doctors anymore.

00:39:22.000 What?

00:39:24.000 Because the list had like a campus farmer on it.

00:39:27.000 Oh, a campus farmer.

00:39:28.000 It was less than a hundred medical doctors, some of them not even practicing.

00:39:31.000 Did they have a PhD?

00:39:32.000 And like a dentist.

00:39:33.000 Okay, so the letter written by a bunch of hacks, a few of whom claim to be doctors apparently.

00:39:40.000 You know, they're going after Joe Rogan, they're going after all of these people because they don't understand that the American people can see lies, that they can see, you know, these falsehoods that are being forced upon them.

00:39:55.000 And, you know, Americans go after the truth. 0.66

00:39:58.000 That's one of, I think, our characteristics.

00:39:59.000 I want to go back to what Andy was saying, because you're talking to a man here who has effectively suffered.

00:40:04.000 I think that's fair to say in some form or another.

00:40:07.000 This is traumatic.

00:40:07.000 I will speak personally.

00:40:09.000 I suffered a kind of a form of PTSD after my New Orleans incarceration.

00:40:14.000 And I was reminded of that.

00:40:16.000 After the FBI raid, at least for a day or two, I did.

00:40:18.000 People say, are you scared?

00:40:19.000 Well, of course, you're human.

00:40:21.000 I mean, I've pretty much removed most of my desire to be liked by these people.

00:40:27.000 I'm almost down to completely zero.

00:40:29.000 I'm never going to be fully zero, because I'd be a sociopath if I was zero.

00:40:33.000 But I just want to talk a little about that for a minute, because it's a theme that I think is very important to discuss here, because it is a prerequisite for being effective.

00:40:42.000 You know, I wrote about this, that this is an age where the loss of one's Twitter account is treated like the loss of one's life.

00:40:49.000 Imagine if everyone watching this did not care if they took away the Twitter account.

00:40:54.000 What impact could they have on you?

00:40:56.000 Your reputation?

00:40:56.000 What does that mean?

00:40:57.000 Your Wikipedia page?

00:40:58.000 Taking away, deplatforming you?

00:41:00.000 But the moment you stop worrying about that and you don't let that handcuff you, pun intended, is the moment you're actually able to actually be free to do the things and do the journalism.

00:41:11.000 And I know what it's like.

00:41:13.000 I articulate this in words better than I can off the cuff.

00:41:17.000 No one can deprive me of my reputation or Andy of your reputation.

00:41:23.000 They've already been deprived.

00:41:24.000 We've already been deprived of that by by declarations from credible journalists.

00:41:27.000 That's not credible journalists.

00:41:29.000 How are these journalists credible?

00:41:31.000 They're credible by virtue of the decree that they are indeed credible because they say so.

00:41:35.000 And to see that happen, it's traumatizing.

00:41:38.000 It can make an otherwise confident man question your own perception of reality.

00:41:43.000 In the beginning it did.

00:41:44.000 In the beginning of my journey, I questioned my own perception of reality.

00:41:50.000 But once you get through that and get through the other side of it, which I think you have, I think any survivor of that sort of abuse develops superpowers.

00:42:00.000 Like, you're a stronger man than you were, you're a better journalist than you were, and you're wiser than you were.

00:42:07.000 And what I've learned is the moment you... I've said this to you before.

00:42:10.000 Thank you.

00:42:10.000 It's a cliche.

00:42:11.000 The moment you really stop caring about what Wikipedia thinks of you and what Jack Dorsey thinks of you... They've already taken away our Twitter accounts.

00:42:18.000 Eric lost his this week.

00:42:19.000 We have no more Twitter accounts.

00:42:21.000 We're still trending on Twitter.

00:42:21.000 Well, Jack's gone.

00:42:22.000 For all you know, he actually likes you.

00:42:24.000 Jack is a metonym for whoever the CEO is. 0.99

00:42:28.000 But the moment you stop giving a shit about what they think about you is the moment you're free. 0.99

00:42:34.000 Oh yeah, it was a magic moment. 0.99

00:42:35.000 I remember during Occupy Wall Street, I got a big surge of followers on Twitter.

00:42:40.000 And with that, a big surge of people saying really mean things to me.

00:42:43.000 And it was the first time I'd ever experienced a wave of hundreds and thousands, hundreds to thousands of people just saying the nastiest fake things about me.

00:42:53.000 And for a minute, I kind of freaked out.

00:42:55.000 I was like, what does this mean for me?

00:42:56.000 What is this going to be?

00:42:57.000 What is it going to do?

00:42:58.000 Am I going to be able to keep doing this?

00:42:59.000 Am I going to be able to work?

00:43:01.000 And then went to bed and woke up, made some food, had some bacon, watched some TV, and then I was like, nothing's happening.

00:43:07.000 It gives you tough skin.

00:43:08.000 But nothing happened.

00:43:09.000 Bacon helps a lot of things though.

00:43:11.000 It does, it's true.

00:43:13.000 But I'm just like, I'm living my life like normal.

00:43:14.000 And then after a little while, I was like, I just figured something out.

00:43:17.000 I can turn off the notifications.

00:43:20.000 And then it doesn't exist anymore.

00:43:22.000 And there we are.

00:43:23.000 Now I just don't have notifications turned on.

00:43:25.000 Why listen to these people?

00:43:26.000 And being offended is a choice.

00:43:28.000 People need to understand that if someone is attacking you, if you're giving them power in that by reacting to it, you're playing into their games.

00:43:35.000 And I think a lot of us in this room have dealt with a lot of crazy stuff.

00:43:39.000 Me and Tim had to deal with the police raid as well.

00:43:42.000 Guns in the face, everything.

00:43:44.000 I was arrested.

00:43:44.000 I was beat up.

00:43:45.000 Andy, you were beat up.

00:43:46.000 Tim, you were jumped.

00:43:47.000 I think, James, you went through your stuff.

00:43:50.000 The amount of craziness that we have to deal with, we have to understand, is nothing new.

00:43:55.000 This is something that, of course, the people who don't like the bigger truths exposed, usually those are the techniques they use against effective people exposing them.

00:44:03.000 Look what happened to MLK.

00:44:05.000 Look how the FBI treated him.

00:44:06.000 The FBI literally spied on him.

00:44:08.000 They got tapes of him.

00:44:09.000 They sent him letters trying to get him to commit suicide.

00:44:13.000 And this is the Federal Bureau of Investigations decades ago going after people who are changing society.

00:44:19.000 And I would argue that the world is round.

00:44:21.000 And that catches up with the bad guys.

00:44:23.000 Yes, they did all those things to him.

00:44:24.000 And it is Martin Luther King Day.

00:44:25.000 But as Martin Luther King said, the arc of the moral universe bends.

00:44:29.000 Long, but it bends towards justice.

00:44:30.000 So the bad guys don't get, I've seen in my life, these bad guys, it always catches up to them.

00:44:36.000 You have to get away with it for a little while.

00:44:38.000 But right?

00:44:39.000 So we talked a bit about law enforcement, FBI going after you, James, but I'm interested to hear from you, Andy.

00:44:45.000 You're dealing with a different kind of bad guy.

00:44:47.000 You're dealing with Extremist organizations that are really angry you've been exposing a lot of their people and their violent groundwork, we can call it.

00:44:56.000 Not only are you dealing with these people making up lies about you, posting constantly, but physically attacking you and threatening you.

00:45:03.000 So I'm interested in this perspective, your take on journalism.

00:45:06.000 We've heard from James on the institutional powers, but what's happening with groups like Antifa and these other far-left extremists targeting you?

00:45:15.000 Well, crucially, what makes them particularly empowered is that the narratives that they are able to spread in the mainstream press haven't really been challenged.

00:45:29.000 You see it every day.

00:45:31.000 So the various riots that happened after Trump were elected were treated essentially as peaceful protests of people reacting in anger against his election win.

00:45:45.000 Rather than as people who were rejecting and using violence to voice their opposition to the electoral process.

00:45:55.000 You're saying there was an insurrection among the far left in DC where they smashed windows and set limousines on fire and were attacking people?

00:46:03.000 Yeah, so the language really matters, right?

00:46:05.000 Yeah, language really matters.

00:46:07.000 Pay attention to what is described as a peaceful protest, mostly peaceful protest, versus insurrection, right?

00:46:13.000 It's not, the differences are, that contrast is intentional.

00:46:20.000 And Antifa rely on allies in the press because obviously what they do would be unpalatable for the majority of the public if the public was accurately informed.

00:46:32.000 You know, those wanton acts of arson, maiming and injuries of other people, killing people, carrying out terrorist attacks such as attacks on government buildings, government facilities, police stations, trying to derail trains.

00:46:49.000 They actually did derail train, didn't they?

00:46:50.000 Yeah, there were two convictions last year in Washington state and that claim.

00:46:54.000 Where is the, I'm sorry, I started to talk, but where is CNN headline breaking New York Times front page, far left extremist derail train?

00:47:02.000 I mean, that didn't happen.

00:47:03.000 They didn't, they didn't talk about it.

00:47:05.000 It was an attempted derailing.

00:47:06.000 Attempted derailing.

00:47:07.000 Derailing.

00:47:07.000 But which, you know, the charges was under the anti-terrorism statutes in the federal law.

00:47:12.000 So there were two young women. 0.99

00:47:14.000 The claim of responsibility was posted on this far left extremist group site called It's Going Down, which was banned by Facebook, by the way, last year, still operates openly on Twitter.

00:47:25.000 A Trump supporter could fart in DC and it becomes a headline story.

00:47:29.000 Extremists attempt to derail a train.

00:47:30.000 What were they doing?

00:47:31.000 They were pouring concrete or something like that?

00:47:33.000 I don't want to get into too much detail, but they were trying to sabotage train tracks, which can cause not only excessive property damage, but could kill people.

00:47:40.000 That's the craziest thing about it.

00:47:43.000 That is an attempt to kill and the amount of damage from derailing these trains, as much as many people on the left don't like to get into the economics of it, it could cause people great suffering in terms of not being able to eat.

00:47:52.000 There are poor people who rely on food coming in and resources from local governments to help them.

00:47:57.000 This level of disruption could have literally killed people directly involved in the train and then have massive repercussions for the poor and the suffering in these cities.

00:48:05.000 No news coverage.

00:48:06.000 Where is it?

00:48:06.000 Where's the big story?

00:48:08.000 Where's the national conversation?

00:48:09.000 Where's CNN to go out and be like, this is insane.

00:48:14.000 These conversations, it doesn't happen.

00:48:16.000 Yeah, well, the point you're making is sometimes by not reporting, you are reinforcing a particular narrative.

00:48:21.000 And that's what happens.

00:48:23.000 And there are so few people who are focused on the Antifa beat that it makes the few of us who do it really subjected to actual violence, continued threats of violence and threats of violence against our family.

00:48:36.000 And if you happen to live in a city that I lived in, Portland, Oregon, where in my view, the rule of law is compromised, police departments don't have the resources to respond.

00:48:46.000 and the local government is so corrupt that they express support for these extremists,

00:48:51.000 then you have essentially a sort of approval from state actors.

00:48:56.000 Why do you think that other outlets and other journalists don't want to cover these guys?

00:49:01.000 Because a few journalists who have, who are from establishment press, experience what

00:49:06.000 it's like to be suddenly targeted online.

00:49:09.000 So you think it's a fear thing?

00:49:10.000 Yes.

00:49:10.000 They don't want to do it because they're afraid.

00:49:12.000 It's also an ideological thing, I think.

00:49:15.000 For lack of a better word, communism.

00:49:17.000 Communists don't want to breach discipline.

00:49:19.000 For it to do so would be an act of blasphemy.

00:49:22.000 Like when Jake Tapper takes his tweet down.

00:49:24.000 Why did he do that?

00:49:25.000 That's crazy.

00:49:25.000 Why did he do that?

00:49:26.000 Where's the principle? 1.00

00:49:27.000 I tweet stupid things all the time and get mocked for it. 1.00

00:49:29.000 I just leave them up. 1.00

00:49:30.000 I don't care.

00:49:31.000 I'll delete something if I tweet it right away and there's a typo or a word is not phrased properly. 0.99

00:49:36.000 But I get people being like, ah, your tweet's so dumb. 0.93

00:49:38.000 I'm like, eh, whatever. 0.99

00:49:40.000 I said it.

00:49:40.000 This is the challenge of our brave new world.

00:49:43.000 They will inflict almost any type of injustice for their cause.

00:49:48.000 It defies reason.

00:49:49.000 It defies logic.

00:49:51.000 And I have respect, I mean this in kind of a dark way.

00:49:55.000 I have so much respect for them.

00:49:57.000 I just got interviewed in a Christian magazine earlier today, and they wanted advice. 0.99

00:50:03.000 I'm like, grow a pair of balls. 0.99

00:50:05.000 You guys love going to church, but beyond praying, what the hell are you doing? 0.99

00:50:10.000 The communists have faith, and it's a faith that they live or die by.

00:50:14.000 They're willing to give up their lives for their cause.

00:50:17.000 Are they really?

00:50:18.000 Who?

00:50:19.000 I mean, they're willing to burn down buildings?

00:50:21.000 They're willing to burn down buildings, but they're not willing to give up their lives.

00:50:25.000 Some of them may.

00:50:27.000 Some of them may.

00:50:28.000 Giving up their lives, maybe they're willing to be incarcerated?

00:50:31.000 I mean, history is replete with examples.

00:50:33.000 Well, I'm talking about recently.

00:50:34.000 So, I mean, if we look at, for example, protests at the Capitol, for example, I was talking to an attorney, Marina Medven, who represents, you guys probably know who she is, represents some January 6th protesters or rioters, whatever you want to say and there's this rabbi who she's representing who is

00:50:53.000 being charged with parading and it's a misdemeanor and her argument he's you

00:50:58.000 know they're trying to sentence him to all this long prison term well longer than

00:51:02.000 necessary like six I don't know some days prison term and her argument is that

00:51:07.000 people who were arrested for protesting in the capital against Brett Kavanaugh

00:51:13.000 got a $50 Yeah.

00:51:14.000 So why is this rabbi getting like this excessive sentence and excessive fine when he was in there for less time for like five minutes and left? 0.96

00:51:23.000 Because it's a cult.

00:51:25.000 It's obvious that the machine is slanted in one direction.

00:51:27.000 We've all said it in a variety of ways.

00:51:29.000 The institutions are protecting one side and demonizing the other.

00:51:32.000 But in terms of what James was saying... That protester who got charged $50, she knows she's not going to have to give up her life.

00:51:40.000 She knows she's only going to have to give up $50.

00:51:41.000 The leftists know that they have legal resources behind them.

00:51:44.000 The right doesn't have that.

00:51:45.000 They have the National Lawyers Guild behind them.

00:51:47.000 So they don't have to give up their ears.

00:51:48.000 That's not true.

00:51:49.000 They're given trainings on what to do.

00:51:50.000 They're willing to do this.

00:51:51.000 They're willing to sacrifice each other.

00:51:53.000 They're willing to a certain degree to sacrifice themselves.

00:51:56.000 Now, many of them may not think they're going to lose their lives completely, but they enter these positions.

00:52:00.000 I've been to these meetings.

00:52:01.000 Luke and I were at a big meeting in France, and they say to everyone outright, you could end up in prison for the rest of your lives and charged with terrorism.

00:52:08.000 And they say, okay.

00:52:09.000 So when I see a dude working at Taco Bell, It's the revolutionary heart of communism, I think.

00:52:13.000 and his manager says take the mask off because the black lives matter thing get

00:52:16.000 a new one or you're fired and he says then fire me the far left screams they make demands and

00:52:22.000 Taco Bell backs down and says we're sorry the right does nothing they do nothing

00:52:26.000 it's the revolutionary heart of communism I think it's the power to

00:52:30.000 to act upon their convictions and I think history is replete with

00:52:35.000 accounts of this Whitaker Chambers wrote about it.

00:52:38.000 Douglas Hyde wrote about it.

00:52:39.000 He converted from communism to Catholicism.

00:52:43.000 There's a lot of examples of people.

00:52:45.000 It's at the heart of their, for lack of a better word, religion.

00:52:48.000 And I think they're willing to act upon their ideals.

00:52:51.000 And from my perspective, I think we can learn from their faith.

00:52:55.000 to act not break the law but not worry about being shamed in some regards the modern day

00:53:02.000 equivalent of giving up your your lively life livelihood you're giving up your livelihood

00:53:06.000 yeah we and your reputation yeah and your and your account they don't care we had darren beat

00:53:11.000 for speaking out we had darren beat they're not afraid they're not afraid darren beaty said he

00:53:16.000 thinks that the right and i'm probably i'm paraphrasing but i think the general idea was

00:53:20.000 the right is actually more prone to cancel culture than the left because the right has more people

00:53:24.000 scared of the mainstream opinion against them.

00:53:28.000 So they're willing to tell people who are either to the right of center or, you know, who are more conservative, traditional conservative, They're not going to defend them.

00:53:35.000 And you see this in Congress, even.

00:53:37.000 Marjorie Taylor Greene gets condemned and booted off her committee assignments because the Republican Party panics.

00:53:43.000 Meanwhile, Ilhan Omar can say whatever she wants.

00:53:45.000 Yeah, that's a problem.

00:53:46.000 And then Donald Trump just wants to be liked by the New York Times.

00:53:49.000 He wants to be liked by the corporate institutions.

00:53:51.000 And that kind of train of thinking, you know, it's not going to achieve anything.

00:53:54.000 There are Republicans who care more about the opinion of the New York Times than the opinion of their own constituents.

00:53:58.000 That is exactly the point.

00:53:59.000 And until they stop caring, they can't be effective.

00:54:03.000 And it comes down to the faith.

00:54:05.000 I've been saying this for years, and I don't know how else to say it.

00:54:08.000 It sounds like a cliché, but the moment the Republican Party stops being humiliating, you give them that power.

00:54:16.000 We give them that power.

00:54:17.000 That's not a power they have.

00:54:19.000 It's only a power if you give it to them.

00:54:22.000 And the moment you stop caring and you stop giving them, then you're free to actually do it, but they won't.

00:54:27.000 Because a lot of the people in the Republican Party aren't there for the right reasons.

00:54:30.000 You want to know why they don't like you, James?

00:54:32.000 Because you changed the news cycle.

00:54:34.000 How is the news cycle set?

00:54:35.000 The New York Times, CNN, these big companies decide there's a big story, and then people in politics try and jump on it to address the issue.

00:54:42.000 And I wonder that sometimes.

00:54:43.000 I'm like, how is it?

00:54:45.000 That the New York Times just decides to run a headline story and all of a sudden that's what we're talking about.

00:54:50.000 But something interesting happens with Veritas.

00:54:52.000 You report a story and it trends number one on Twitter, all of a sudden they're forced to address it and they don't like doing that.

00:54:58.000 I want to get even deeper on you. 0.60

00:55:00.000 This is a Daily Beast headline by Lloyd Grove and they tried to do this shame crap with me.

00:55:06.000 They tried to get me to, I'm so sorry, I apologize, I shouldn't have done...

00:55:10.000 And the headline reads, it's impossible to shame James O'Keefe.

00:55:16.000 That's a badge of honor right there.

00:55:17.000 Do you understand we should frame this and put it in our bathroom at headquarters?

00:55:21.000 Do you understand now how the game is played?

00:55:24.000 The whole point The whole point is to shame you.

00:55:29.000 That's their modus operandi.

00:55:31.000 And here's what's scary.

00:55:32.000 When they couldn't shame you, the FBI shows up.

00:55:34.000 When they couldn't shame Andy, they found him in the street and they beat him up.

00:55:37.000 Well, they're running out of arrows, aren't they?

00:55:39.000 Because how do you exceed... Do you know how aggressive it is for the FBI to execute a search warrant against an American journalist?

00:55:46.000 They're scared.

00:55:46.000 The Attorney General of the United States expressly forbids it.

00:55:49.000 in a memo by Merrick Garland in July.

00:55:51.000 You do not execute search warrants against journalists, particularly for this issue.

00:55:55.000 They probably broke the law.

00:55:57.000 And doesn't that show kind of a bit of desperation?

00:55:59.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:56:01.000 I wonder if there's something else we don't know yet.

00:56:04.000 The FBI maybe got worried that you had a whistleblower with some information, and the only way they could figure out what stories you were working on was to drum up some fake search warrant to get access to your documents.

00:56:14.000 Well, the problem with that strategy is that most of my employees I'm the CEO of the company.

00:56:19.000 I do some reporting, but not all.

00:56:21.000 Most of our employees are the ones with sources.

00:56:24.000 And they didn't take their phones.

00:56:26.000 Well, they don't know what to do.

00:56:27.000 I think they're panicked.

00:56:29.000 They're desperate.

00:56:30.000 We can see it, like you mentioned, Libby, how they're going after these January 6th guys with extreme charges relative to what the left has done.

00:56:38.000 And we had an insurrection in 2017.

00:56:40.000 Luke and I were there on the ground.

00:56:41.000 We saw conspiracy charges against all of these black-clad individuals who were smashing windows, setting fires.

00:56:47.000 And most of them just got let go.

00:56:48.000 That's right.

00:56:49.000 They couldn't hold any charges against them.

00:56:50.000 Well, and that goes on in so many of these cities that are Democrat-run, and they've just taken that strategy, and they're using it all over the place.

00:56:56.000 Gascon and the DA in LA does this catch-and-release thing.

00:57:01.000 That's not working.

00:57:02.000 The new DA in New York has promised to do something very similar.

00:57:05.000 It's going to make the city that is crumbling even worse.

00:57:09.000 In New York, just really quickly, in New York, there was activists being arrested for eating without a Vax Pass, eating without permission from the government, when a woman was murdered yards away from from the police is prioritizing vaccine domestic passports

00:57:24.000 over literal murders that happen and this is happening under the

00:57:26.000 Eric Adams administration that promised campaigned to be tough 0.88

00:57:30.000 on crime and this is happening in the city right now it's absolutely ridiculous. Well they also promised to be tough

00:57:36.000 on vaccine mandates and they've continued that as well. To the

00:57:40.000 extent where people are literally being thrown in front of trains. Well they're not doing anything I mean they're

00:57:45.000 arresting you know who don't have people have been permission

00:57:48.000 People have been being thrown in front of trains for some time.

00:57:51.000 That's actually not new in the city, although it is horrifying and terrifying.

00:57:54.000 The crime is up.

00:57:55.000 Crime is up.

00:57:56.000 No, it's a disaster.

00:57:56.000 Yeah.

00:57:57.000 It's a disaster, for sure.

00:57:59.000 It's so interesting.

00:58:00.000 Andy and I were talking about this earlier, that so many of these cities that are Democrat-run What was our conversation?

00:58:08.000 I feel like I'm blanking, but we were talking about that.

00:58:10.000 By mid-December, there were a dozen cities in America that had surpassed its historical record on homicides and murders, Portland being one of them, and there were 11 others.

00:58:20.000 This was just mid-December.

00:58:22.000 I'm not sure if there were, by then, you know, the end of 2021, if there were More than that, it's a direct consequence that will be felt for years and years of the political and social changes in our culture after George Floyd died.

00:58:40.000 Right, and it's like social justice initiatives are not going to make cities safer, it turns out.

00:58:47.000 It's just going to make it worse for the very people that you're claiming to try and protect.

00:58:51.000 But I wonder if that's, you know, these people aren't trying to protect anybody.

00:58:56.000 Well, they're trying to protect themselves and the people who read the New York Times.

00:58:56.000 No.

00:58:59.000 I think it's worse than that.

00:59:00.000 They're trying to protect criminals.

00:59:02.000 I think it's worse than that.

00:59:03.000 It's the chaos that destroys the system that allows them to exploit it.

00:59:07.000 They're letting people out of prisons because it creates crime.

00:59:10.000 They're setting forth these policies that are making everyone's lives genuinely worse and more chaotic.

00:59:14.000 Then as everything gets crazy, they come out and say, we're the solution, give us the power.

00:59:18.000 They enact policies that destroy the system and then tell you they're the only solution.

00:59:23.000 Yes, they do do that.

00:59:25.000 And then they enact further policies that continue to destroy things. 1.00

00:59:29.000 Yes, I think they do do that is another good way to say it, too, because these policies are utter crap. 0.99

00:59:34.000 Yeah, they don't make sense. 0.99

00:59:36.000 They come out and often by decree.

00:59:38.000 Yeah, they're pushing these policies.

00:59:39.000 And of course, we've had we've had nothing but rule by decree for the past two years, right?

00:59:44.000 These executive orders have got to stop the emergency powers that have been given.

00:59:49.000 to governors and mayors have got to end. The people need their representation. In New York

00:59:55.000 City we're being mandated without representation at this point. You know it's like some stamp act

01:00:00.000 bullshit is what we've got going on. They're mandating you guys get three vaxes now or is it 0.98

01:00:04.000 still two? It's still the two but you know. But cases are through the roof anyway.

01:00:10.000 And there's room on those vax cards for a whole bunch of more crap that they can inject us with. 0.91

01:00:15.000 That's what the conspiracy theorists are saying. 0.83

01:00:17.000 Like, why is there four empty lines here?

01:00:21.000 This doesn't make any sense.

01:00:22.000 And the conspiracy theorists are saying it's not just going to be two, it's going to be a lot more.

01:00:26.000 I keep getting into arguments with people too about whether or not my child should be vaccinated.

01:00:31.000 And I'm like, He's been exposed to COVID 500 million times.

01:00:34.000 He's tested negative 500 million times.

01:00:36.000 He was around me when I got COVID.

01:00:38.000 He was around his dad when his dad got COVID.

01:00:40.000 He keeps being fine.

01:00:42.000 Like, if he's fine, what do we need this for?

01:00:45.000 So many kids are fine.

01:00:46.000 They're requiring five-year-olds not only be vaccinated but also wear a face mask.

01:00:51.000 Just to go to, you know, like whatever, the Olive Garden in Times Square, which I don't know why anyone wants to go there, but still, anywhere to go to the Met.

01:01:01.000 I have a question.

01:01:02.000 Have any of the politicians or activists who demanded that police be defunded apologized that their project resulted in historical numbers of black and brown people and vulnerable people dying in urban areas?

01:01:20.000 They just ignore that fact.

01:01:23.000 They ignore it.

01:01:24.000 We saw that video where the two Antifa women are vandalizing the property and two young black women say, why are you doing this?

01:01:29.000 Get out of here.

01:01:30.000 We don't want this.

01:01:31.000 We're doing it to help you.

01:01:32.000 We're helping you.

01:01:32.000 It's like, no, you're not.

01:01:34.000 You're destroying our community.

01:01:36.000 I'll tell you that story.

01:01:37.000 When I was in Ferguson, when the young black men linked arms to defend the liquor store, Where Michael Brown had stolen the cigarillos.

01:01:47.000 And they were interviewed by Al Jazeera.

01:01:49.000 And they said, these people looting and raiding our stores don't live here, man.

01:01:53.000 But you know what we end up seeing?

01:01:55.000 From, I think it was the New Republic, I can't remember which outlet it was, so forgive me if it wasn't, but in defense of looting. 0.83

01:01:59.000 That's what they called it.

01:02:01.000 As people who live in the community were begging for the violence to stop, and outside forces were exploiting it and burning down their buildings, prominent left-wing activist media said it was a good thing.

01:02:11.000 Yeah, it was revolution, and I'm like, the people who live there aren't doing this.

01:02:15.000 I'm glad you brought that up.

01:02:17.000 NPR did a very glowing interview with the author of that book.

01:02:21.000 Vicki Osterweil.

01:02:22.000 Yes, that's correct.

01:02:23.000 And this is why narrative is important, because when the mainstream left essentially puts out this, is platforming people who are arguing in support of violent extremism and criminality, That shifts the whole Overton window and I think we've seen that very clearly.

01:02:45.000 We've seen that slowly in the last six years in the opinion sections of the New York Times.

01:02:49.000 I mean they publish some really awful things like I'm still disturbed by that one piece of the the parent asking if his black child should have white friends.

01:02:59.000 Yeah that was really upsetting.

01:03:01.000 That was the Charles Blow story I think wasn't it?

01:03:04.000 I don't recall.

01:03:07.000 Yeah, that shifts.

01:03:09.000 And we've seen, you know, as all that violence was happening in 2020, where it wasn't just property destruction, we had at least 26 people who died as a result.

01:03:19.000 And there were peripheral deaths too.

01:03:20.000 So there were some instances where people died indirectly as a result of the riots, like roads being closed, ambulances being blocked, things like that.

01:03:28.000 And then you had the overt murders, people like David Dorn, who were just killed in these riots.

01:03:34.000 Reporting that I will always give a shout out to Michael Tracy where he actually drove to these small towns It was it was it was a cow and Yanka. 1.00

01:03:41.000 Sorry.

01:03:42.000 It was what for what that was the author?

01:03:44.000 Yeah author.

01:03:45.000 I had it wrong.

01:03:46.000 Can my children be friends with white? 1.00

01:03:46.000 Okay. 1.00

01:03:49.000 Michael Tracy went, he drove across the country and he went to these very small towns and he saw boarded up windows, spray paint saying, please don't hurt us, things like that.

01:03:57.000 Spare our school.

01:03:58.000 Oh, I saw myself in, so I was in the Capitol Hill autonomous zone, CHAZ, in Seattle.

01:04:03.000 This is where...

01:04:05.000 BLM, far-left extremists, and Antifa took over six blocks of a major American city, created a hard border, and had people with guns guarding these checkpoints. 0.85

01:04:16.000 You know, it was allowed to go on three weeks, people died there.

01:04:19.000 On the wind, and this was a really heavily densely populated area, the businesses on there had signs that said, black-owned business, Asian-owned business, person of color-owned business.

01:04:30.000 As sort of these, I mean, it seems really kind of like medieval, right?

01:04:33.000 It's like, please, please don't harm us because every inch of that entire six boxes vandalized.

01:04:43.000 I have to wonder, you know, we often talk about civil war or civil unrest or whatever, in I guess a funny twist or whatever, or however you want to describe it, when Luke was reading about post-pandemic civil unrest is when we got swatted.

01:04:58.000 So I'm curious, Luke, if we never actually, I don't think I have to flesh out what was going on with that.

01:05:03.000 As we're looking at what happened with CHAZ and with Minnesota and with all this stuff, I think there's a real possibility that not only was it were we already likely to see civil unrest because of the pandemic lockdowns, but you add to this the fact that Black Lives Matter rhetoric and writing over the past few years has never been checked.

01:05:20.000 It has never been held to account.

01:05:22.000 I think that's going to lead to something, you know, substantial.

01:05:24.000 Especially when you consider the economic factors that are also adding a lot of stress to the entire system with people finding it harder and harder just to find commonly household used items.

01:05:36.000 The store shelves are also being emptied, not just because of the winter storm, but because of the global supply chain shortages and the problems that have started that we still haven't felt the full effects of.

01:05:46.000 So when you combine all of that and the historical pretext for unrest when it comes to pandemics, This is a recipe for disaster, especially at the state that the United States is in right now, with what people are calling a decline of an empire.

01:06:00.000 There's a lot of things coming together all at once, but it's a storm that's absolutely dangerous to be in.

01:06:06.000 The BLM riots and the Antifa riots, it wasn't that they were only unchecked.

01:06:11.000 They were encouraged, and those rioters were encouraged to flout COVID restrictions.

01:06:17.000 So I remember in June 2020.

01:06:19.000 Just a real quick interjection.

01:06:20.000 Actually, it was one article said that they actually reduced the spread of COVID.

01:06:25.000 No joke.

01:06:25.000 Yes.

01:06:26.000 No joke.

01:06:26.000 They reported that.

01:06:27.000 Well, Andrew Cuomo said and Bill de Blasio said that if contract tracers spoke to people who had been protesting for social justice, they were not to ask them if they had been, you know, not to ask people, have you been doing this in order to help the contract tracing?

01:06:43.000 But it was in June of 2020 that there was a 10,000 person protest outside of the Brooklyn Museum of Art in Brooklyn.

01:06:55.000 10,000 people out protesting to end violence against black trans people.

01:07:01.000 And this was, the mayor said, this was more important than COVID restrictions.

01:07:06.000 And it was literally at that moment.

01:07:09.000 I was already sort of done with this pandemic in May.

01:07:12.000 I can't, you know, whatever.

01:07:13.000 And then at that moment, I was like, and everything you have said and everything you are now going to say is a complete and total fabrication.

01:07:21.000 It's fully a lie.

01:07:23.000 As soon as there's 10,000 people allowed to hang out outside the Brooklyn Museum and protest, you know, supporting black trans lives.

01:07:31.000 And me and my kid can't go to the movies and we can't go to the Met and we can't do anything.

01:07:36.000 Everything you were thoroughly discredited.

01:07:39.000 100% discredited.

01:07:40.000 The government entirely.

01:07:42.000 In New York State and in the city.

01:07:45.000 I think I remember watching de Blasio on the corporate media.

01:07:48.000 I think it was CNN. 0.92

01:07:49.000 What a shyster.

01:07:50.000 Announcing, hey, we're going to restrict this. 0.86

01:07:52.000 You can't go to the movies.

01:07:53.000 You can't go to the supermarket.

01:07:54.000 You can't eat at restaurants.

01:07:55.000 You can't do this, this, and this.

01:07:56.000 And then he was asked, what about the protest?

01:07:58.000 He's like, Oh, they're justified.

01:08:00.000 How? 0.98

01:08:01.000 And it was probably a bunch of these same stupid doctors and researchers and scientists who wrote the Rogan letter, who penned that letter saying that racial justice protests are reasonable reason to not adhere to COVID restrictions. 0.99

01:08:16.000 You mean the dentists and nursing students? 0.99

01:08:18.000 Yeah, whatever.

01:08:19.000 And the cannabis farmer?

01:08:22.000 I got respect for the guy who's farming cannabis, but I don't think he should be... He's not a doctor.

01:08:25.000 He might be some kind.

01:08:26.000 The non-board certified veterinarians.

01:08:28.000 Exactly.

01:08:29.000 These people.

01:08:29.000 Yeah.

01:08:30.000 Back alley veterinarians.

01:08:31.000 Right.

01:08:32.000 I don't like what Joe Rogan's talking about.

01:08:34.000 The veterinary abortionists.

01:08:36.000 Oh man.

01:08:36.000 Oh no.

01:08:37.000 Sorry.

01:08:38.000 But I want to loop it back to what James was saying.

01:08:41.000 James was saying we're optimistic.

01:08:42.000 Or he's optimistic.

01:08:43.000 I'm optimistic.

01:08:44.000 I take a look at the declining ratings of these institutions.

01:08:46.000 I take a look at... We have this story actually from the post-millennial.

01:08:49.000 Red Wave poll shows dramatic shift in party preference from Democrat to Republican at the end of 2021.

01:08:56.000 So this is from Gallup, one of the most credible polling institutions, so they say.

01:09:00.000 And we can see that around the third quarter, there was a big decline and a shift occurring.

01:09:05.000 And by quarter four of 2021, Republican-sent identification outweighed Democrat by five points.

01:09:11.000 This is for the first time in a couple, like 20 years, maybe.

01:09:15.000 There was a period, I think, in, like, 2010s where it was fairly even, but we haven't seen this pronounced of a flip since, like, 91.

01:09:22.000 Now, I don't think Republicans are necessarily the answer.

01:09:25.000 I think voting in the primaries and voting for people who care about this country is the answer, but the fact that people are breaking away from the establishment narratives, from declining ratings, to party shift, I think matters.

01:09:36.000 I think it's grounds for optimism, right?

01:09:38.000 Well, I keep on plugging my book, but the second book you should reread every year is 1984, which is the year I was born.

01:09:45.000 Oh boy.

01:09:45.000 And in this book, Winston, the protagonist, Winston, 1984, says the party,

01:09:51.000 the party is a metaphor for what we're talking about, tells you to reject the evidence of your own eyes and ears.

01:09:57.000 Winston said, it is the final, most essential commandment, is the number one rule, don't trust your own eyes and ears.

01:10:04.000 But the moment propaganda becomes apparent, it loses its effect.

01:10:09.000 And I think what's happening right now is people are starting to wake up.

01:10:14.000 And you, Luke, I think you're right.

01:10:16.000 I think they're losing like a, what do you call it?

01:10:17.000 A dog that was, an animal that was caged or something.

01:10:20.000 I like that metaphor.

01:10:22.000 A trapped animal.

01:10:24.000 And I think this is also why in 1984 they made them repeat 2 plus 2 equals 5 because it's nonsensical and they couldn't have common sense.

01:10:31.000 They couldn't have rational debate and discussion.

01:10:34.000 They needed to, of course, obey the state and the controllers at all costs.

01:10:39.000 It's the Emanuel Goldstein manual, 1984.

01:10:43.000 It requires a moment-to-moment flexibility in the treatment of facts.

01:10:47.000 So that scene you're talking about where they're torturing Winston, you know, two plus two

01:10:51.000 equals is five and Winston's like, well, spoiler alert for people.

01:10:55.000 Sorry.

01:10:56.000 In case you haven't read it since high school.

01:10:59.000 And he's like, I don't understand.

01:11:00.000 Two plus two equals four.

01:11:01.000 And it says, and finally, Winston, because he's being tortured, he says, well, two plus

01:11:05.000 two is whatever you want it to be.

01:11:06.000 Exactly.

01:11:07.000 But I feel like there are four lights.

01:11:10.000 I feel like... Yes.

01:11:12.000 This is America. 1.00

01:11:13.000 Damn it. 1.00

01:11:14.000 This is America. 1.00

01:11:14.000 And I think we're different than any other country in the history of the world. 1.00

01:11:18.000 I just don't think we're... I'm hopeful because I think people understand what's happening.

01:11:25.000 The danger, Tim, is that most people are afraid.

01:11:29.000 And that, meh, pension, meh, mortgage, meh, kids.

01:11:32.000 Well, good luck to your kids because if we don't change this, maybe your kids will be holding bayonets or whatever the modern equivalent of a bayonet will be.

01:11:39.000 So we better give up our pensions and our mortgages.

01:11:43.000 There's more to life than my mortgage.

01:11:45.000 But it's really, you know, it's very difficult when you have so much to lose.

01:11:45.000 You gotta blow the whistle.

01:11:49.000 What's the point of living?

01:11:51.000 What's the point of life?

01:11:51.000 What's the point of living?

01:11:53.000 This is the question, what's the meaning of life?

01:11:57.000 Absolutely this is the question.

01:11:58.000 I don't think there's an answer to what is the meaning of life.

01:12:01.000 No, no, my question is, you posed a rhetorical question to me, and my answer is, or rather I posed a rhetorical question to you.

01:12:09.000 What's the point of life without meaning?

01:12:13.000 You know, the pursuit of happiness.

01:12:14.000 Well, there's also the pursuit of meaning.

01:12:16.000 And the excuse that we're giving is following orders.

01:12:16.000 Sure.

01:12:20.000 There's 120,000 people.

01:12:21.000 What I'm saying is, if you have people who have a family and they have a home and they want to protect those things, they're going to go to great lengths to protect those things.

01:12:30.000 They're not going to give them up until they're forced to.

01:12:32.000 I disagree, actually.

01:12:33.000 If you can get dinner on the table, and you can go to your job, you're going to do those things.

01:12:37.000 That's what people do.

01:12:38.000 What if you're being asked to do unconstitutional legal things?

01:12:40.000 Well, then we see people start to give those things up when they have to.

01:12:45.000 And that's a different point for everybody, isn't it?

01:12:49.000 When you live in a house, and you're surrounded by a wooded area, and there is a fire on the horizon, you have people saying, I think if we just sit around and do nothing, the fire eventually won't hit us and we'll get lucky.

01:13:03.000 And it's like, or you can take action now, get your family out before the fire destroys your home.

01:13:08.000 What we're seeing right now is that people aren't willing to go to great lengths to protect their friends and family or their children to make sure there's food on the table.

01:13:16.000 They're looking at short-term gains and long-term losses.

01:13:20.000 So the reason I use the forest fire analogy is that- This is like Chekhov with the trees.

01:13:25.000 It's off in the distance.

01:13:26.000 Okay, the fire's not here right now.

01:13:28.000 Why did the peasants keep coming down the forest?

01:13:29.000 I know there's a fire.

01:13:30.000 I know there's a fire.

01:13:31.000 I know it is destroying people's homes.

01:13:33.000 I know my neighbors have lost everything, but I'll be fine.

01:13:37.000 I'm sure of it.

01:13:38.000 They think if they keep their head down, the mob won't come in their house.

01:13:38.000 Right.

01:13:41.000 This is what Solzhenitsyn describes in the Gulag Archipelago, to survive at any price. 0.86

01:13:46.000 And to survive at any price is the danger, because if you continue down this road, I like your analogy of long-term, you're going to live in a society which is permanently corrupted, where the lie becomes a permanent form of existence, and you have to sell out your own family to not go to the gulags, so to speak.

01:14:04.000 James, when you're breaking rocks in the gulags, there's going to be a guy 10 years older and he's going to go, hey James, did I ever tell you about how my kid played soccer?

01:14:12.000 I'm not defending people for not wanting to fight.

01:14:13.000 My worst part about the gulags is the inevitable hunger strike because I like to eat.

01:14:18.000 I get hangry.

01:14:19.000 But that's a serious point because I want to go back to this point which you and I disagree

01:14:23.000 with because this is the issue at hand.

01:14:25.000 I'm not defending people for not wanting to fight.

01:14:28.000 I'm saying people don't want to fight.

01:14:31.000 I'm not asking everyone.

01:14:33.000 So this is my Martin Luther moment.

01:14:36.000 Maybe we are at a breaking point here.

01:14:38.000 Yeah, this is my Martin Luther moment.

01:14:40.000 This is the issue at hand.

01:14:41.000 What we're talking about.

01:14:42.000 You're nailing stuff on the door right now.

01:14:43.000 That's it.

01:14:43.000 Okay.

01:14:44.000 Here I stand.

01:14:44.000 Right now.

01:14:45.000 I can do no other.

01:14:46.000 What we're talking about, you and I in this moment, that's everything.

01:14:49.000 I have people who have families who are making money for Facebook, Pinterest, that gave it all up for the public's right to know.

01:14:56.000 And they did so as a leap of faith.

01:14:58.000 And the American people protected them.

01:15:00.000 The HHS whistleblower, Jodi, she raised half a million dollars after she gave up her job for filming stuff in the emergency room.

01:15:08.000 Zach at Google, Eric Cochran at Pinterest said, I'll fall to ashes one day.

01:15:12.000 I want my life to mean something after I'm gone.

01:15:14.000 Those are Hid's words, not mine.

01:15:16.000 Sure.

01:15:16.000 I mean, I've, you know, like, I lost everything because I wrote the truth, right?

01:15:21.000 Right.

01:15:21.000 This happened to me too.

01:15:22.000 And we need more people to do this.

01:15:23.000 This kind of thing happens to Andy all the time.

01:15:25.000 And we need more people to do this.

01:15:26.000 Yes, we need to speak up for that.

01:15:27.000 But we also need to understand and not condemn the people, I think, who don't do it.

01:15:32.000 I think we need to understand those people.

01:15:33.000 But we should encourage them at the same time as we understand them.

01:15:36.000 We should all speak up and speak the truth at once because there's too many of us to be destroyed.

01:15:41.000 Their acquiescence, their compliance is literally leading us down this pathway.

01:15:45.000 I profoundly disagree with you.

01:15:46.000 There is a literally, as I speak, thousands of DMs every day.

01:15:52.000 What can I do?

01:15:53.000 Help me.

01:15:53.000 I want to help.

01:15:54.000 I want to make a sacrifice.

01:15:56.000 Well, good.

01:15:57.000 Good.

01:15:57.000 So we need to We need to create a mass movement of those people.

01:16:02.000 We need to give them an opportunity to fight.

01:16:04.000 People want to fight in this country.

01:16:06.000 They don't know what to do.

01:16:07.000 They want to do something.

01:16:10.000 But I think with 120,000 people, the DOJ, Tim, There's got to be one or two.

01:16:16.000 I just need one or two.

01:16:17.000 Maybe I already have them.

01:16:19.000 I need one or two more.

01:16:20.000 There's got to be... OK, we're following orders.

01:16:23.000 I get it.

01:16:23.000 You have your mortgage to pay, but I don't know.

01:16:28.000 I was watching this video.

01:16:29.000 I'm just saying, if we can be sympathetic to those people.

01:16:32.000 I'm sorry.

01:16:34.000 You're talking to a man who's been put in handcuffs twice by the FBI for a crime I didn't commit.

01:16:39.000 And I would like to believe that half the people in my apartment actually were not bad people at all.

01:16:43.000 I think they're very good people.

01:16:45.000 I just think we're entering a slippery slope and we have to encourage people to do the right thing and it will involve, without question, it will involve sacrifice and suffering.

01:16:57.000 It just will.

01:16:59.000 Now you sound like Dr. Peterson.

01:17:00.000 Well, the police officers and FBI agents that arrested and went after James... Who I adore.

01:17:03.000 I have the utmost respect for you and for Dr. Peterson.

01:17:05.000 Well, I'm sitting next to a man who got thrown concrete milkshakes.

01:17:09.000 You know, he got physically assaulted for what he went through.

01:17:13.000 My only point was to have empathy for the people who are terrified of losing everything.

01:17:18.000 How does that affect the actual actions that we're going to take?

01:17:24.000 How does empathy affect the actions that we're going to take?

01:17:26.000 I don't think condemning people gets them on your side.

01:17:29.000 Have I done that?

01:17:29.000 I didn't say that you did.

01:17:30.000 I'm not condemning anybody.

01:17:35.000 We need to create a forum for people to come forward.

01:17:38.000 We have to do that.

01:17:40.000 Yes, we should all be encouraging each other to speak the truth and to not be cowed by this nonsense anymore.

01:17:45.000 I thoroughly agree with you on that.

01:17:48.000 But the people arresting James and the FBI agents that went after him are making those excuses.

01:17:52.000 We need to pay the mortgage.

01:17:53.000 We need to pay the bills.

01:17:54.000 We need to make sure that my kids are taken care of.

01:17:57.000 Those are the same kind of arguments that I've heard made by corporate journalists saying, Hey, I just got to read this script.

01:18:02.000 I just got to do what they tell me to do because at the end of the day, I got to take care of myself.

01:18:06.000 That's not what I'm defending.

01:18:07.000 There's a lot of people who use that kind of justification, even in the White House press corps, that I personally know.

01:18:16.000 I think .001% of people need to give up their pension, yes.

01:18:18.000 Man, could you imagine if just a thousand people in one of these organizations just came out and said, we're willing to sacrifice our pensions?

01:18:26.000 Well, then none of them would.

01:18:27.000 If every single person at any of these corrupt institutions, if they all just said, we hereby all agree we have scruples and won't do these illegal things, It wouldn't happen in the first place.

01:18:36.000 I agree with that.

01:18:37.000 It is two choices.

01:18:39.000 You can follow your conscience or you can, and then you will lose your livelihood.

01:18:44.000 Or you could not follow your conscience and have a safe existence.

01:18:53.000 My view on life growing up was never based on tribalism.

01:18:56.000 And I think that's what shapes my perspective today, is that there was no group identified

01:19:01.000 There was nothing I saw that I said, I need to be a part of.

01:19:03.000 It was actually, my whole life was, if I don't figure it out for myself, I'm in trouble.

01:19:08.000 Too many people today are wrapped up in just trying to fit in with whatever tribe they think will keep them alive.

01:19:15.000 Right, we see with Ethan Klein, he's the H3 Podcast guy, he deletes the Jordan Peterson interviews.

01:19:20.000 Why? 0.86

01:19:21.000 That's such a trash move. 0.89

01:19:23.000 But it's because, in my opinion, if you look at his Instagram, he said, YouTube gave me a strike, I can't work for a week because someone went to an old video and flagged it and got it removed. 0.96

01:19:33.000 Here's a guy who's got a big, he's got a company of 10 people.

01:19:36.000 He's got 10 million subscribers.

01:19:39.000 And because of the rule changes, he's getting banned.

01:19:42.000 So what does he do?

01:19:43.000 He says, I'm just going to adhere to whatever they tell me to do.

01:19:47.000 Yeah.

01:19:47.000 And he deletes the join.

01:19:48.000 I'm going to say the two plus two equals five because I don't want the rat to eat my face.

01:19:52.000 Yep, exactly.

01:19:52.000 That's what the Orwell was a genius.

01:19:55.000 Room 101.

01:20:00.000 I don't know what your psychological version of the rat, everyone's got their fears, but this is a slippery slope.

01:20:05.000 And I don't know, I'm just quoting our whistleblowers that come to us.

01:20:11.000 All of these people, these are not my words, they're saying, listen, there's I want my life to mean something, and I guess it is akin to what Jordan Peterson talks about.

01:20:23.000 Wasps.

01:20:25.000 Wasps?

01:20:25.000 Yeah, if the establishment came to my house and unloaded wasps into my house, the show would be off the air.

01:20:30.000 Don't say that!

01:20:32.000 He's just making a joke, people.

01:20:35.000 Don't give them ideas, Tim.

01:20:38.000 Don't tell them the fear.

01:20:39.000 They're like, Tim doesn't actually scare cancellation.

01:20:41.000 Put some wasps in that building. 1.00

01:20:45.000 You weren't afraid of the stink bugs.

01:20:47.000 I'm actually not scared of wasps.

01:20:49.000 I don't think that that could get you.

01:20:51.000 In 1984, the state knew your biggest fear and for Winston it was the fear of rats and that's why they put a bucket with a rat in it and it said the rat's going to eat your face unless you obey the state.

01:21:02.000 This is, again, the dangers of the track, trace, and database society, the society that has the NSA snooping on every aspect of our existence, and it's not out of the realm of possibility to compare our current reality going towards a 1984 one, which James brings up all the time, which is on the money.

01:21:18.000 The vaccine database thing. So in April, Jeff Zients at the CDC said that there was going to be no federal vaccine

01:21:25.000 database.

01:21:25.000 Jen Psaki said there was going to be no federal vaccine credential.

01:21:29.000 And it actually turns out that after the OSHA mandate went through for federal workers,

01:21:35.000 this Safety Guidelines Agency said, you know, helped to help federal agencies implement the vaccine mandate.

01:21:44.000 They said and you will have to keep a database of who's been vaccinated and who isn't and the reasons for why the people didn't get vaccinated specifically religious exemptions.

01:21:54.000 So it turns out that the OSHA mandate supersedes everything else for federal workers and there will be A bunch of different federal vaccine databases at all for the employees at all of these agencies.

01:22:06.000 And I think unless I think it's very likely it will happen.

01:22:11.000 Yes, I think so.

01:22:12.000 Short of us actually speaking out and people who like watch the show, share this show, talk about these ideas, stand up for yourself.

01:22:19.000 And I think more and more people are doing that.

01:22:21.000 If they don't, the Supreme Court may strike down mandates for private companies, but give it five years and it will be commonplace unless you speak up now.

01:22:30.000 Charles Murray said that government is in an advanced state of sclerosis where solutions are outside the legislative process in the courts.

01:22:38.000 I think what we've experienced with the New York Times lawsuit is on point.

01:22:42.000 I mean, even if the Supreme Court were to rule in my favor, the New York Times would say, Trump judge!

01:22:47.000 Muh, Trump judge!

01:22:48.000 Who cares?

01:22:48.000 We don't care what we're doing.

01:22:50.000 But does it matter to you?

01:22:52.000 Obviously, winning against the New York Times is very important.

01:22:54.000 They defamed you.

01:22:55.000 They caused you problems and money.

01:22:56.000 But for the snooty elites and their ivory tower at their wine, you'll never convince them, right?

01:23:02.000 Literally, Dean Baquet had a glass of Chardonnay in Pittsburgh with his turtleneck and blazer. 0.99

01:23:08.000 Was it dumb? 0.94

01:23:09.000 So there's a story in this book. 0.97

01:23:11.000 I saw Dean Baquet, New York Times, Pittsburgh.

01:23:13.000 I was literally at the proverbial seat at the table.

01:23:16.000 I was sitting next to Marty Baron and Dean Baquet.

01:23:18.000 And I went to shake his hand.

01:23:20.000 And you would think, why would you want to shake this horrible person?

01:23:22.000 Well, you know, maybe there's a moment of humanity.

01:23:25.000 Maybe, maybe he has a moment of levity.

01:23:27.000 No, no. 0.99

01:23:27.000 He whimpered and winced like a little coward. 0.99

01:23:30.000 He wouldn't shake your hand? 0.99

01:23:31.000 He wouldn't shake.

01:23:32.000 He turned around towards the wall while holding, I'm not making this up, a glass of wine.

01:23:37.000 Wow.

01:23:38.000 And I, and I, and at that moment, I realized that, yeah, there's, you asked a question.

01:23:45.000 It's not the satisfaction from the verdict.

01:23:48.000 The satisfaction comes in the discovery part of litigation where you're exposing

01:23:53.000 them.

01:23:54.000 The only thing that, for lack of a better word, communists, the only thing that communists fear

01:24:02.000 is being exposed. They do not fear the government, in my experience. They don't fear the courts.

01:24:08.000 The only thing that will hold them accountable is exposure.

01:24:14.000 And I think litigation does that vis-a-vis the discovery process.

01:24:17.000 When you open up their books, when you record them in depositions, etc., etc.

01:24:21.000 Also, when you guys take a microphone and put it up to their face and they start running away as fast as they can.

01:24:26.000 That's also a good one.

01:24:27.000 Did you ever notice that they don't want to engage us in conversation?

01:24:32.000 They want us to shut up.

01:24:33.000 I want them to talk.

01:24:34.000 Hmm.

01:24:35.000 Interesting dichotomy.

01:24:36.000 It's crazy, right?

01:24:37.000 So I see this in the movie, Don't Look Up.

01:24:39.000 Have you seen it?

01:24:40.000 This is that Netflix movie.

01:24:40.000 No.

01:24:41.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:24:42.000 One of the scenes, it's basically in the movie, the Republican Party is telling all of their right-wing nutjobs not to look up at the sky where the comet is coming to destroy the planet.

01:24:51.000 So they don't.

01:24:52.000 And I'm watching that and I'm like, I think the movie's funny.

01:24:54.000 It's poking fun at everybody.

01:24:55.000 But the Republicans, the conservatives are the meme of debate me.

01:25:00.000 It's Ben Shapiro chasing after AOC being like, why won't you debate me?

01:25:03.000 While the left says, leave me alone.

01:25:04.000 I don't want to talk to you.

01:25:06.000 If anyone is telling you not to look up, it's CNN.

01:25:08.000 Right.

01:25:09.000 Not the right.

01:25:09.000 The right's demanding you look up.

01:25:11.000 And the Biden administration as well, that's saying that we need to stop disinformation, but they don't take any questions from reporters.

01:25:17.000 And Dr. Fauci, who today on the World Economic Forum Zoom call was literally saying we need to fight disinformation for, quote, medical health, alongside, of course, Xi Jinping, who also was on the Zoom call as well.

01:25:29.000 Well, and they only identify disinformation and misinformation as anything that goes against whatever the current narrative is, which is consistently changing.

01:25:39.000 It goes back to the moment-to-moment flexibility in the treatment effects.

01:25:42.000 We talk about engaging in conversation.

01:25:45.000 Again, I tell my staff, we welcome the inspectors.

01:25:49.000 That might sound counterintuitive.

01:25:51.000 You're an undercover operation.

01:25:52.000 You have to keep secrets.

01:25:53.000 We don't keep many secrets, Tim.

01:25:56.000 Everything you do is going to be watched.

01:25:59.000 The New York Times is required by their ethical code to reach out for comment.

01:26:03.000 They do do that via email, but they'll never print my response.

01:26:06.000 And when I try to call them, they hang up the phone.

01:26:09.000 They do this clever thing where if your quote hurts you, it's in full.

01:26:09.000 They hang up the phone.

01:26:13.000 If your quote helps you, they'll snip it or paraphrase.

01:26:17.000 One such comment was, please respond, all these things.

01:26:19.000 So I quoted the judge in the defamation lawsuit.

01:26:22.000 The New York Times acted in disinformation and deception.

01:26:24.000 I quoted a judge.

01:26:26.000 And the New York Times published, when asked for a comment, Mr. O'Keefe criticized the New York Times.

01:26:32.000 Well, I didn't criticize the New York Times.

01:26:33.000 I was quoting a judicial authority.

01:26:36.000 That's false, a statement of fact, isn't it?

01:26:38.000 It is, and we sued them for defamation and we're winning.

01:26:42.000 So, I mean, so now we just put out our quotes to the New York Times to our audience.

01:26:47.000 We just film myself emailing the New York Times.

01:26:51.000 Pete, I think your audience wants solutions.

01:26:53.000 I think we know they chop the quotes, they take it out of context.

01:26:57.000 Solution!

01:26:57.000 I had Robert Silverman, who's this hack reporter at Daily Beast.

01:27:03.000 He reached out to me, I think around midnight Eastern time.

01:27:07.000 He was trying to get comment.

01:27:08.000 He said, I'll give you until 12.30am to respond.

01:27:13.000 This is how entitled some of them feel.

01:27:15.000 You know, like they're doing you the favor.

01:27:17.000 They're writing a hit piece.

01:27:18.000 They contact you at the last hour.

01:27:21.000 And then, well, most people are sleeping at that time or not checking their email.

01:27:25.000 And then your comment never makes it into the public story.

01:27:30.000 Andy, I was going to ask you, how do you deal with the media coverage that you get dealt with?

01:27:34.000 Do you have any kind of legal battles?

01:27:35.000 Or what's your strategy when it comes to dealing with the media that attacks you?

01:27:41.000 Um, well, I've come to, like James, come to ignore most of it.

01:27:47.000 Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to do lawsuits against everybody who defames me.

01:27:54.000 And in the US, deaf Proving defamation in a court when you're a public figure is extremely hard.

01:28:05.000 And so the point of these negative pieces is to sabotage and ruin someone's reputation and also to demoralize them and to take up their time.

01:28:15.000 I think it's been more effective for me to ignore most of it.

01:28:19.000 When it's really egregious, then I'll respond.

01:28:22.000 I think like so recently in December, a few weeks ago, I got an email at night from a journalist asking me for a comment about this federal lawsuit that was filed against me for a copyright violation.

01:28:35.000 That was the first I've heard of it.

01:28:36.000 So these two Antifa activists, extremists in Portland, sued me for retweeting their videos on Twitter.

01:28:45.000 Okay, completely frivolous lawsuit.

01:28:49.000 But the point wasn't necessarily about winning.

01:28:52.000 It was about getting all of these negative pieces out that said, Andy Ngo sued in federal court for stealing journalist content.

01:29:01.000 That's really damning for, I mean, if you're a journalist, your reputation really matters.

01:29:06.000 By the way, there's only as much as I say, you know, I ignore this, ignore that.

01:29:11.000 Reputation at the end of the day matters when you're a journalist because your reputation is your legitimacy.

01:29:17.000 That's how people know that what you're reporting out is accurate.

01:29:19.000 They can trust it.

01:29:21.000 And within less than two weeks, the lawsuit was withdrawn.

01:29:25.000 And so by then, you know, those left-wing media sites are not going to write these new follow-up stories about how this was a frivolous lawsuit that was a waste of everyone's time.

01:29:38.000 But, you know, on the record, now people Google me again.

01:29:40.000 In addition to all the hit pieces before, they see stuff like this.

01:29:43.000 And now it's forever that, even though the lawsuit's gone, they can still say Andy Ngo has been sued for stealing content in the past, and it'll be forever.

01:29:52.000 But I do have to issue a very strong correction.

01:29:54.000 You see, I stated on this show that that lawsuit would be dismissed in summary judgment, and I was wrong.

01:30:00.000 They withdrew it because it was a frivolous lawsuit, so it didn't even make it that far.

01:30:04.000 But again, it's the smear that counts and that's what they were going for, at least in my opinion.

01:30:08.000 The object of persecution is to break your will.

01:30:14.000 That's what they're trying to do.

01:30:16.000 Usually this litigation is an exercise in just trying to shut you up, break your will, bankrupt you, etc.

01:30:24.000 Alright, let's go to superchats!

01:30:26.000 If you haven't already, get those superchats in.

01:30:27.000 We're gonna take questions, and I'm gonna do my best to try and go through good questions for, you know, for everybody here, so we can have some very serious conversations.

01:30:35.000 And there's a ton of superchats, so I definitely won't be able to read everybody's, but smash that like button, go to TimCast.com, become a member.

01:30:40.000 We're gonna have that members-only podcast up tonight.

01:30:43.000 We usually post around 11 or so p.m.

01:30:45.000 But, uh, let's read what we got here.

01:30:47.000 Just with- we'll start with some compliments.

01:30:49.000 Robert Dolvik says James Andy and Libby with Tim is the journalistic Avengers. He didn't say Luke

01:30:56.000 That's fine.

01:30:57.000 That's okay.

01:31:00.000 All right, let's see what we get here.

01:31:02.000 I want to try and find a good question for everybody.

01:31:06.000 May I just ask the question Eric sent me?

01:31:09.000 Absolutely.

01:31:10.000 Yo, Mr. O'Keefe, we got to know, boxers or briefs?

01:31:14.000 And this is your guy?

01:31:15.000 People are obsessed with the underwear fact.

01:31:19.000 Everyone loves to talk about me and my... I don't know what they're called.

01:31:23.000 I guess, boxer briefs?

01:31:25.000 I don't know what they're called.

01:31:29.000 It's just visual.

01:31:30.000 It's just a very visual image.

01:31:31.000 It is a very compelling visual.

01:31:32.000 In the film version, that's going to be on the poster.

01:31:35.000 Do you think there's going to be a film made about this?

01:31:37.000 Don't you think there ought to be?

01:31:38.000 We do have a super chat.

01:31:39.000 It would be a great film.

01:31:40.000 We did have a super chat saying, Mr. O'Keefe, boxes are brief.

01:31:43.000 Who would cast?

01:31:44.000 Who would be the person that would play me?

01:31:47.000 I don't know, who do you want?

01:31:48.000 Michael Malice.

01:31:50.000 Anyways, I'm sorry, I took the podium away from you today.

01:31:52.000 Oh no, I'm trying to... Nicolas Cage.

01:31:55.000 I can definitely see Nicolas Cage.

01:31:56.000 No, not Nicolas Cage.

01:31:57.000 So, there's always a challenge in that... He's way too old at this point.

01:32:00.000 A lot of the comments aren't questions, typically, and so I'm trying to make sure I can get a good question, but that means scrolling through and screening these, you know, maybe in the long term we'll find someone.

01:32:11.000 Here's one that's a question.

01:32:13.000 I'm confused about the temperature of the room you are all in.

01:32:16.000 Andy's in a scarf, James with an open shirt, Luke in a long sleeve.

01:32:19.000 Is your temperature equitable?

01:32:21.000 I don't know.

01:32:22.000 I think so.

01:32:24.000 Andy's in a scarf because it looks very jaunty and nice.

01:32:27.000 It's very snappy, yeah.

01:32:29.000 I'm in a sweater because I'm always cold.

01:32:31.000 Here's a good question.

01:32:32.000 Beefy says, Andy, covering riots, when did you feel most scared?

01:32:35.000 Um, Tim's audience will remember this.

01:32:42.000 So in May of last year, I returned to Portland, which was a mistake.

01:32:50.000 I went back and I had less because it was becoming very, very dangerous to me.

01:32:58.000 Police were very overwhelmed in 2020 with the nightly violence and riots.

01:33:03.000 The police were defunded and a record number of them had resigned and took early retirement.

01:33:09.000 So they're just the only calls that often they were responding to were like priority calls involving life or death situations.

01:33:17.000 So if you have issues of It's a threatening person showing up at your home.

01:33:21.000 You could take hours for somebody to show up.

01:33:25.000 And I knew all that.

01:33:26.000 But I went back because field reporting is extremely important.

01:33:30.000 And James and Tim, you can test this because you did this.

01:33:34.000 When the further you are away from the subject that you cover, you introduce more errors, right?

01:33:40.000 That's how You get these journalists who are in bureau desk rooms in New York and D.C.

01:33:46.000 who get things wrong, for example, about the Russia hoax.

01:33:49.000 They just depend on these sources, right, rather than being on the ground and being able to verify things.

01:33:55.000 I have been gone for a number of months, and I wanted to see how Antifa's violence had evolved towards the end of 2020 to the many months to 2021.

01:34:06.000 And I was there undercover and observing and unfortunately they became suspicious because I wasn't riding with them.

01:34:16.000 And they sent several feelers to come and question me.

01:34:19.000 I write about this in the update for my book Unmasked.

01:34:23.000 And one of them said, I remember they surrounded me.

01:34:26.000 I was alone.

01:34:28.000 They said, I think it's him.

01:34:33.000 And even though I was in the middle of downtown, two blocks away from the Central Police Station, I knew I had no good options at that point.

01:34:41.000 What do I do?

01:34:42.000 I start running.

01:34:42.000 What do I try talking my way out?

01:34:44.000 You know, my voice.

01:34:46.000 I don't carry weapons.

01:34:49.000 And well, they assaulted me really badly and that was when they had me on the ground and pinned on the ground and I could hear more of them running after me.

01:35:02.000 And some of them had their cameras out, they were live streaming it, trying to get their comrades to come.

01:35:07.000 Not all of them have the intention to kill somebody, but we've seen in these mob settings it takes one or two who are completely unhinged and have nothing to lose to do that kick to the head or the face, right?

01:35:18.000 I was so fortunate that I was able to escape and run into that hotel and plead with them to lock the doors, to call police and Yeah, that whole entire experience has been really traumatic.

01:35:34.000 And I remember there was a big debate online afterwards, and you weighed in, and you said, why would you willingly return to that situation, knowing, one, that you had been assaulted before, been under death threats, and go there without a good escape plan?

01:35:48.000 I think that criticism was fair, but... First, I think, as many people pointed out, I was a little crass. 0.99

01:35:57.000 Because I was on Twitter and I saw it and I tweeted something like, that was stupid, why would you do that? 0.98

01:36:01.000 And it's probably a little crass. 0.99

01:36:03.000 But my thought was, you wrote a book on Antifa.

01:36:08.000 You're beyond just going into a crowd of these extremists and risking your life when you're at the point where, I suppose I should say, your work is too important.

01:36:19.000 The knowledge you have, the experience you have, the connections you've made, the people you can connect, the information you have within you, would all be lost because you decided to go out that one night.

01:36:29.000 Now, I think it's fair to say, I mean, it's your responsibilities in this regard in your work.

01:36:34.000 They're your choice.

01:36:35.000 If you think your work is best served doing what you did, then it's just opinion versus opinion.

01:36:39.000 My attitude is you should have three more people working with you.

01:36:44.000 You should be doing what James does.

01:36:45.000 Actually, you came up in this because many people pointed out that you go through new undercover reporters because if they get exposed, then you can't just keep using the same people over and over again.

01:36:54.000 Well, you'd be surprised how much a ball cap and sunglasses can achieve.

01:37:00.000 But yeah, I mean there's a lot to say about that, but I admire Andy.

01:37:05.000 I admire your fearlessness or your ability to overcome your fear and go back there.

01:37:12.000 Yeah, so that was, you know, basically it, I mean, on my part.

01:37:16.000 Probably crass, my initial reaction, but I think the point is, we need you to keep doing your work.

01:37:22.000 One of the reasons we're here today, talking about the work you've done and the experiences you've had and the threats you've faced, trying to cover something that the media basically covers up.

01:37:29.000 How do we make sure that, like, the one journalist who knows how this system is working is not going to end up wiped off the map?

01:37:37.000 And that the work you're doing expands into more journalism.

01:37:40.000 I think it's great if the media is going to report on far right extremism.

01:37:42.000 Wonderful.

01:37:43.000 Absolutely.

01:37:44.000 But we get all of that.

01:37:45.000 Where are the reporters who are going out and reporting on far left extremism?

01:37:49.000 It's few and far between.

01:37:50.000 You're doing it, Andy.

01:37:51.000 And we need more people to be doing it.

01:37:53.000 So there's a fear in like, you would risk your life, but we need to get you to a point where you're expanding and getting more people on the ground, you know what I mean?

01:38:01.000 That's the gist of it, but you know, other than that, I mean, I certainly, you know, empathize with what you went through.

01:38:06.000 I don't think, I've never experienced anything to that degree.

01:38:09.000 You know, I've certainly have had Antifa get in my face, but that was, you know, considering what they did with the milkshakes and attacking you, and you know, you were seriously, you were very seriously injured with traumatic brain injury.

01:38:21.000 And then experiencing that again, I can certainly empathize and say, it's a dangerous job, man.

01:38:26.000 I'm glad you do it, though.

01:38:28.000 What does this say about America, though, that in some urban areas of the country, you can't have journalists or citizen journalists or even just people, regular people with their phones out recording things that are happening in public, that you can just have mobs of violent extremists threatening violence and doing it with impunity for years.

01:38:49.000 Why do you think that doesn't happen on the right?

01:38:51.000 Like we have, you know, there's right-wing extremists and stuff like that.

01:38:55.000 Why aren't they out there being crazy and beating up, I don't know, journalists?

01:39:01.000 It exists.

01:39:02.000 But there is, you know, if we look at the polling data, independent voters lean very heavily alongside conservatives in their opinions.

01:39:11.000 We did an event in the Philadelphia area.

01:39:13.000 We had far-left journalists that we know lie show up, and we let them come in, and knowing they're going to lie, we say, okay, do your thing.

01:39:20.000 And they came in and lied and made up crazy stories.

01:39:23.000 Cali11.

01:39:24.000 Well, I usually don't say anybody's names, but putting out these stories where they claim that security, their security was at risk in a casino.

01:39:31.000 That was just such a falsehood.

01:39:32.000 I watched that whole thing happen.

01:39:33.000 Right.

01:39:34.000 We were in a casino.

01:39:35.000 Everything was fine the whole time. 1.00

01:39:37.000 If you are a jer- See, this is why- We were all there. 0.99

01:39:39.000 I remember that. 0.98

01:39:40.000 And this is why, you know, we're strategic in how we put on these events.

01:39:44.000 We had the event in a casino.

01:39:45.000 You're never gonna get better security.

01:39:45.000 Why?

01:39:47.000 I mean, there's so many cameras in casinos that when the dealers are pulling out chips, they have to, like, move their hands out of the way and do motion specifically because everything is watched.

01:39:57.000 For someone to come in and say, my security was threatened, oh please.

01:40:01.000 You're in one of the biggest, most secure buildings in the city.

01:40:03.000 But we let them come anyway.

01:40:05.000 Now what happens when Andy shows up?

01:40:06.000 The truth, as James pointed out, scares them.

01:40:09.000 They'll attack.

01:40:11.000 I like to hear from the audience.

01:40:13.000 What are they thinking?

01:40:14.000 Let's try and find some more superchats.

01:40:18.000 Morgan asks, didn't Trump technically ban speech at his rally?

01:40:21.000 I believe this is over the FJB comment, and the answer is yes, and it's important to call it out.

01:40:26.000 And that also brings up a weakness among individuals like ourselves, whatever facts you want to call it, freedom, good, libertarian, whatever.

01:40:34.000 Is that we have no problem being like Trump shouldn't ban speech.

01:40:37.000 You can appreciate the sentiment, of course, that, you know, Trump's trying to be more cordial, but on the left, they don't play that game.

01:40:43.000 They do have their circular firing squads, but it seems like it's usually for reinforcement of their, of their, uh, of wokeism as opposed to any real principle.

01:40:52.000 I think it's interesting though, and we've talked about this before, the idea that on the left they're doing things a specific way and so why are we trying to uphold a set of standards and values that are not being upheld on the other side?

01:41:06.000 This is something James was talking about.

01:41:07.000 He's clearly very committed to his standards and his values.

01:41:10.000 He's not going to let that be compromised.

01:41:12.000 And I think that's important.

01:41:14.000 I think in times of crisis and when your values and when your standards are the most threatened is when you need to uphold them all the more.

01:41:21.000 Yeah, but you're violating people's free speech.

01:41:23.000 That's where a lot of people's issues comes up, saying, hey, why are you as an administration saying you can't say this specifically all for, you know, PR images? 0.95

01:41:31.000 Listen, people have branded me, Tim, for years as this unethical, criminal, scum, lying, deceptive, editing me, jailed me, sued me. 0.95

01:41:40.000 They have not physically attacked me, knock on wood. 0.91

01:41:43.000 But what's remarkable is I have written a book with 800 footnotes, law review articles, journalism, ethics, essays.

01:41:51.000 We wrestle and struggle with the ethics of what we do at Project Veritas, so much so that we almost torture ourselves about whether we should publish.

01:41:59.000 And if I was a radical right-wing activist, I would have published Ashley Biden's diary.

01:42:05.000 I didn't!

01:42:06.000 And that should be proof enough.

01:42:09.000 The most important ethical rule in journalism is to behave like there are 12 jurors on your

01:42:15.000 shoulder at all times.

01:42:17.000 The whole point, the whole raison d'etre of investigative reporting is to expose that

01:42:22.000 which others want kept secret for the wrong reasons.

01:42:25.000 So you have to behave like you have nothing to keep secret.

01:42:29.000 And that's the hardest part about, I mean, what we do, because it's often human nature that wants to keep things secret.

01:42:38.000 The Rick Salaby story we did recently, and I hope you saw that one, the CNN producer got, the police got involved.

01:42:43.000 That was wild.

01:42:44.000 The second producer.

01:42:45.000 You want to hear us a crazy quick anecdote?

01:42:48.000 CNN fired that guy Salibi probably within about 24 hours and didn't say a word about it.

01:42:53.000 And two weeks went by. And then in response to a tweet, the vice president of CNN, Matt Dornick,

01:43:00.000 replied, oh yeah, he's gone. That's old news. What an incredible way to cover up so that they

01:43:08.000 wouldn't, because if they said immediately he was fired, be associated press bulletins.

01:43:12.000 What an amazing story that was. I love when the criticism accidentally exposes the machine when

01:43:17.000 when they said that you go after left-wing organizations.

01:43:21.000 And you had recently done a story on Google and Facebook.

01:43:24.000 And then it's like almost an admission of the complaints people have about the political bias of these institutions.

01:43:29.000 To claim that you're going after a left-wing institution, which happens to be Google, is kind of the media saying.

01:43:34.000 That's always true.

01:43:34.000 You're going after, you only target the left.

01:43:36.000 Well, the New York Times, CNN.

01:43:40.000 Yeah!

01:43:41.000 The Department of Defense.

01:43:42.000 Are these left-wing organizations?

01:43:44.000 So your point is the logic of that seems to presuppose that they are left-wing.

01:43:50.000 But the left tends to, as the late Rush Limbaugh once said, told me as well, the left tends to circle the wagons and the right tends to circle the firing squad.

01:44:02.000 And that's because of the psychology of shame.

01:44:05.000 It all goes back to two principles.

01:44:08.000 Principle number one, stop caring about what they think of you.

01:44:12.000 And principle two, always behave like someone's watching you.

01:44:17.000 And if you do those two things, I think we'll be very successful as citizen journalists.

01:44:23.000 All right, lots of compliments.

01:44:25.000 People saying, thank you, James and Andy.

01:44:27.000 We have Karen saying, thank you, James O'Keefe and Andy Ngo for being on the show.

01:44:30.000 And most of all, being actual journalists, you are so appreciated.

01:44:33.000 We've got Lesko saying, Andy Ngo and James O'Keefe, bravest men alive.

01:44:39.000 Oh yeah, I would agree.

01:44:41.000 We have, let's find a good question.

01:44:46.000 North Viking says, why do people on the right care so much what the left thinks?

01:44:49.000 Perhaps finding that out will help us free them to fight the left.

01:44:53.000 Otherwise, just telling people to stop caring probably isn't enough.

01:44:56.000 I do understand why we say the left all the time and why people say the left so often.

01:45:01.000 I think it's important to talk about establishment elites, which have a tendency to be today the establishment left.

01:45:08.000 But what do you guys think?

01:45:09.000 I think we talked about this, but why do you think the right cares so much about what they say?

01:45:12.000 It's because the left has cultural dominance.

01:45:15.000 That matters a lot.

01:45:17.000 I don't think any of us here would be honest if we said, if we just said, I mean, if the New York Times was to write a nice profile about one of us and we said, no, well, who cares?

01:45:28.000 No, I think each and one of us would care.

01:45:30.000 We would like that sort of legitimacy from the mainstream that like this paper record.

01:45:36.000 in America would acknowledge what we do.

01:45:40.000 I agree to an extent, but I also disagree.

01:45:42.000 I think a lot of people would like that.

01:45:44.000 I'm not so sure the people at this table, for the most part, would be, you know, vying for that.

01:45:49.000 No, I think, to be fair, to be clear, I sound like the 14th paragraph of a New York Times article right now.

01:45:59.000 To be fair, it's unclear whether... You're even using your NPR voice.

01:46:03.000 I know my NPR voice.

01:46:03.000 It's amazing.

01:46:07.000 My reporter voice.

01:46:09.000 Tim, I think all of us, in places we don't want to admit want to be accepted. You have to be a, I call it a masochist

01:46:19.000 or a sociopath to want to be hated.

01:46:21.000 We are all, we all grew up to be liked, we want to be liked, we want to be loved. I don't want

01:46:25.000 to be hated. You don't, I don't think you want to be hated.

01:46:28.000 Nothing that you do should engender hatred. But you have to kind of fight against that

01:46:36.000 evolutionary instinct to suck up to the people who have the cultural dominance, right?

01:46:43.000 I think this is such an important point.

01:46:45.000 I think, it's not so much for, you know, for me, I don't care if the New York Times wants to write something nice about me.

01:46:50.000 I just don't want them to lie.

01:46:51.000 I appreciate if people want, they don't like me, they hate me, they want to write about it and say, here's why we hate them.

01:46:57.000 I'll be like, eh, well, you know, people are entitled to their hate.

01:47:00.000 I just, I don't want to be hated, but more so, I recognize I will be, I just don't want them to publish lies.

01:47:07.000 It takes this kind of indefatigable tunnel-visioned obsession in order to endure the hatred and the pain Because it does hurt.

01:47:18.000 I mean, it hurts.

01:47:20.000 I remember when I was 25 years old, not 37, about 12 years ago, I used to obsess about my Wikipedia page.

01:47:26.000 I used to sit there and like bite my nails, obsessing.

01:47:30.000 And after a while, you just accept it.

01:47:32.000 You can't change it.

01:47:34.000 And that's when you really grow, I think, after that ordeal.

01:47:39.000 I think that it is that leftist cultural dominance of You know, news organizations, entertainment, and everything else that you guys are talking about, that is what makes it so important that the outlets that we're involved with continue to speak out and to continue to speak the truth.

01:47:56.000 Tim Cass does that.

01:47:57.000 Project Veritas does that.

01:47:59.000 Post Millennial does that. 1.00

01:48:00.000 And we need more outlets like this.

01:48:02.000 We need more venues for this kind of conversation and for, you know, an expression of reality as opposed to this dogmatic intolerance.

01:48:11.000 Well, we have a question here from Confector.

01:48:13.000 Tyranus, how do we as a society reinstate journalistic integrity and facts-based news?

01:48:18.000 No narrative, no prefacing with your pet agenda, just true news.

01:48:23.000 How?

01:48:23.000 Well, I'll say become a member at TimCast.com, because I'm fairly strict.

01:48:28.000 We've had people message us saying like, hey, this article is poorly framed, and I'll immediately go in and be like, hey, fix this.

01:48:33.000 We had one story where it said, Joe Biden criticized for doing X and I went in and said, change the headline and story to Joe Biden does X and that include any relevant commentary after the fact.

01:48:44.000 We don't, I don't want to do stories that are framed negative or positive.

01:48:47.000 Just tell people what happened.

01:48:49.000 As for everybody else, I think supporting all of, uh, supporting the work of everyone, everyone here.

01:48:53.000 So I don't know if you guys want to.

01:48:54.000 Well, I would make a statement about the medium of journalism.

01:48:58.000 I think it came out in the last couple weeks that TikTok has a bigger audience than Google now.

01:49:02.000 So print or the written word account of things.

01:49:06.000 The New York Times and these organizations of propaganda rely upon descriptions of things.

01:49:12.000 So I think doing journalism that's visual, doing journalism that – I mean, television has higher credibility than print for a reason.

01:49:20.000 Doing first-person observation journalism, reporting as an observation.

01:49:26.000 First-hand observation is the ultimate documentation.

01:49:28.000 That's what you did in Portland.

01:49:30.000 Do journalism where you can see it.

01:49:32.000 You don't have to trust the reporter's depiction of the events, but you can see it with your own eyes and ears.

01:49:36.000 I think that's a start.

01:49:38.000 And just go ahead and go out and do it.

01:49:40.000 Go out in the field.

01:49:41.000 Leave your apartment.

01:49:43.000 Go there.

01:49:44.000 We go there.

01:49:45.000 You used to work for Vice, right?

01:49:45.000 Remember Vice?

01:49:47.000 Yeah, I did.

01:49:47.000 Shane Smith's unique value proposition.

01:49:49.000 In Times Square, I saw a billboard that said, we go there.

01:49:53.000 Imagine how broken journalism must be when your unique value proposition is to go to the place you're reporting on.

01:49:59.000 It's kind of wild.

01:50:00.000 It's like that Evelyn Waugh novel, Scoop, where the journalist shows up to cover a war, and there is no war, and all the journalists who are there are like, shh, don't tell anybody.

01:50:10.000 They're just kind of making it up.

01:50:12.000 That's great.

01:50:13.000 Yeah, I don't know if you guys want anything about what we can do to save journalism?

01:50:17.000 Andy?

01:50:19.000 This is a controversial view, but I've been spending time in the UK and their media landscape is very different.

01:50:26.000 In broadcast television, they actually have a government agency that enforces rules, some guidelines on impartiality on broadcast television. 0.98

01:50:37.000 And as a result, on their news channels, you don't have shows like that would feature guests that would, for example, just Make a statement, let's say, Donald Trump is a fascist and a racist. 0.96

01:50:54.000 And then the host just agrees. 0.92

01:50:56.000 You have to have it for something like that.

01:50:58.000 The responsibility is on the host to to challenge or to ask for evidence, or they have a guess from an opposing opinion.

01:51:06.000 That's not in the American tradition, but I think as a result, then I mean, all of us have seen some of these shows on MSNBC or some of these equipped right wing equivalents and I think it would violate the First Amendment.

01:51:18.000 I don't think we could do it.

01:51:20.000 Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, putting, you know, the legal tradition aside, I just mean culturally, but... Oh, for sure.

01:51:28.000 So I haven't made up my mind quite about that yet.

01:51:30.000 But I think, I mean, in my view, the media landscape in the UK, I think it's less insane than what we have in America.

01:51:40.000 Did you guys want anything else to that question?

01:51:43.000 I think journalists need to ask more questions instead of making assumptions.

01:51:47.000 We see a lot of assumptions in media, especially on TV reporting, and I think that more straightforward questions as opposed to questions that lead with a narrative I have this meme here which I don't know if you can see.

01:52:01.000 It's a meme of what journalism used to be.

01:52:05.000 The man is running towards the podium asking questions and now the man is running away from the podium with a megaphone amplifying the person.

01:52:13.000 So my point, I'm going to say this right into the camera.

01:52:15.000 Journalists, do your jobs.

01:52:18.000 Do your job.

01:52:20.000 It's real simple like you just said.

01:52:22.000 Ask questions.

01:52:23.000 Don't trust what they tell you.

01:52:25.000 Bite the hand that feeds you. 0.89

01:52:28.000 Bite the hands that feed you. 0.98

01:52:29.000 That's what we do at Project Veritas.

01:52:31.000 And stop editorializing.

01:52:32.000 I don't care about what you think.

01:52:33.000 I don't want to know what you think.

01:52:35.000 I want to see it with my own eyes.

01:52:38.000 Or I don't trust it.

01:52:39.000 People say, where do you get your information?

01:52:41.000 From actual evidence?

01:52:44.000 Documents from the Defense Department?

01:52:46.000 This is what I love about when they smear you as conspiracy theorists.

01:52:49.000 I'm like, when James O'Keefe publishes a video of a person at a company saying something, where's the conspiracy?

01:52:54.000 Like, what did he make up?

01:52:55.000 I don't report anything, I just see their lips moving.

01:52:58.000 Like, I need to see the face of the person.

01:53:00.000 And the other thing I'll say is, you know, people say, well, some people won't like it.

01:53:04.000 Well, if there's one person who will listen, tell the truth.

01:53:07.000 There's a point in this book where I was at my nadir in my life, where I thought about quitting.

01:53:11.000 And my own mother and sister said, well, if there's one person that will listen to your journalism, then it's worth doing.

01:53:22.000 And that's how low I had to go after my ascent to the highest peak.

01:53:25.000 I was down again and up and down.

01:53:27.000 And now our audience has grown.

01:53:29.000 Although you have a gold plaque for your million subscribers.

01:53:32.000 Google has not said that to me yet.

01:53:33.000 Well, to be fair, James, I'm using one of them as a window jam to keep the window open.

01:53:38.000 You have two of them?

01:53:39.000 Oh, we've got like...

01:53:41.000 They haven't sent that to us yet.

01:53:43.000 They accidentally sent me two for one of my channels.

01:53:47.000 You're using it as a doorstopper.

01:53:49.000 So the window won't stay open, so we jammed the golden award in it.

01:53:53.000 I just want to respond to what you were saying, because what you're saying about the megaphone, where the journalist is now amplifying the message, what happened to question authority, right?

01:54:02.000 This used to be a pretty standard idea in America, that we would question authority, and now the new definition of Domestic terrorism and domestic extremism is someone who is anti-government and anti-authority.

01:54:13.000 What the hell is that?

01:54:15.000 And just really quick I also wanted to say we're all journalists.

01:54:18.000 If you see an injustice speak up.

01:54:20.000 Don't be afraid to say anything, to tweet it, to get it out there to the general public because it's us.

01:54:25.000 All willing to participate and speak out against injustices that could actually stop it.

01:54:30.000 I used to doorstep a lot of politicians and I think I almost said exactly what you were saying as I was being dragged out from a Larry Silverstein press conference.

01:54:38.000 Ask questions, demand answers, and of course... Do your jobs!

01:54:41.000 Do your jobs, please!

01:54:43.000 They're not going to do it.

01:54:45.000 You will, as an independent journalist, as just an average civilian, you have the power in your hands to broadcast and to shed light on the darkest corners of this world to do it.

01:54:54.000 I got it.

01:54:55.000 I just figured it out.

01:54:57.000 Imagine you have every plumber in the country has stopped fixing plumbing. 0.99

01:55:03.000 And our bathrooms and our streets are laid in with crap.

01:55:08.000 And there's one guy, there's a small handful of people that are actually trying to get the plumbing working again. 0.99

01:55:13.000 That crap, that analogy, is what's happening in our political space, is what's happening with our big institutions, because journalists stopped fixing the pipes. 0.98

01:55:21.000 They stopped doing their jobs, and they've just let the crap flow free. 0.99

01:55:25.000 We need people to actually do the work and fix it so we can flush this crap. 0.98

01:55:28.000 I view it as an opportunity. 0.93

01:55:31.000 People need to be brave.

01:55:33.000 Here's my NPR voice.

01:55:36.000 Be brave.

01:55:37.000 Do something.

01:55:38.000 VeritasTipsAtProtonMail.com.

01:55:40.000 And American Muckraker is the book.

01:55:42.000 And all of the proceeds go to our nonprofit organization, which funds our journalism salaries.

01:55:46.000 But I think you go there, like Andy No did.

01:55:48.000 Go there.

01:55:49.000 Go on location.

01:55:51.000 Do the job they refuse to do.

01:55:54.000 And expose them.

01:55:55.000 We got tear gassed together in Greece.

01:55:57.000 We did get tear gassed.

01:55:58.000 We went there as well.

01:55:59.000 And what did we do?

01:56:00.000 Put milk in our eyes?

01:56:01.000 I forgot.

01:56:02.000 There was some kind of solution that we got.

01:56:03.000 It was just some some random person came up to us.

01:56:05.000 There's like, hey, just put this in your eye.

01:56:07.000 I'm producing, you know, we do all this reporting.

01:56:09.000 I produce it.

01:56:10.000 And Luke here just streams it on Snapchat or something.

01:56:14.000 I was snapchatting back then and doing small stories in the snippets as we were covering extreme civil unrest in Greece, literally, as there was Molotovs being thrown at police officers and crazy battles in the streets of Athens, Greece that were absolutely crazy during their... what was it?

01:56:33.000 They banned people from taking money out of their bank accounts?

01:56:35.000 Yeah.

01:56:36.000 And there was one anecdote.

01:56:37.000 We were in Greece and I was holding a camcorder in 2015.

01:56:40.000 This was the time with the economic crisis.

01:56:43.000 And this Greek guy saw me with a camcorder.

01:56:45.000 And these were literal communists.

01:56:46.000 They had a communist flag.

01:56:47.000 And they started marching toward me.

01:56:49.000 And the other guy said, no, no, no.

01:56:50.000 And in an accent, he said, no, he's an American.

01:56:53.000 And he stopped from assaulting me.

01:56:55.000 It was a very powerful moment.

01:56:56.000 Don't assault the American.

01:56:58.000 Why do you think that was?

01:57:00.000 It's pretty deep.

01:57:01.000 PR?

01:57:01.000 Yeah, that's really interesting.

01:57:02.000 My friend was also there.

01:57:03.000 He got put in the hospital because activists beat the crap out of him as he was reporting on the front lines because he took the camera and he put it on the people that were throwing rocks against the police. 0.99

01:57:12.000 I mean, this is America, dammit. 0.99

01:57:15.000 You know, this is America. 0.98

01:57:17.000 And I don't think we're going to become like these other countries.

01:57:22.000 I don't think we can.

01:57:22.000 I think the power of one is too big here.

01:57:25.000 The courage is too contagious here.

01:57:29.000 I've seen it with my own eyes.

01:57:30.000 I have sources right now inside the Justice Department.

01:57:33.000 I will say it on the record.

01:57:35.000 I was here last time.

01:57:35.000 I was talking to Christopher Wray directly in the camera.

01:57:38.000 I got raided a few months later, so I don't know what's going to happen.

01:57:40.000 But I've got sources inside the Justice Department.

01:57:43.000 I want that story.

01:57:44.000 I want to see it.

01:57:45.000 The courage is too courageous, too exciting, it's too much fun.

01:57:49.000 It's fun speaking truth to power, isn't it?

01:57:51.000 Absolutely.

01:57:52.000 There's great joy in fighting.

01:57:53.000 It's so much more fun than the alternative.

01:57:56.000 And the other thing, too, is when our culture is big enough, the dominance of the left will decrease.

01:58:04.000 I mean, Andrew Breitbart used to say, the days before he died, Andrew Breitbart said to me, James, they want us on a leash.

01:58:11.000 We're not going to be on a leash.

01:58:13.000 They want us to dance.

01:58:15.000 We refuse to dance with them.

01:58:18.000 Politics will eventually be replaced by imagery, and I think people just have to have the courage.

01:58:24.000 They just have to have the courage to step up.

01:58:26.000 Alright, let me read this one here.

01:58:27.000 We got Armino the Pug says, question for everyone.

01:58:30.000 At our current rate, do you think that civil unrest and conflict is unavoidable?

01:58:34.000 Is there a possibility of someone embodying the American spirit to bridge the divide we face?

01:58:41.000 What was that last part?

01:58:42.000 Someone embodying the American spirit?

01:58:44.000 The American spirit that can bridge the divide.

01:58:46.000 Interesting.

01:58:46.000 I'm a bit less pessimistic on any kind of, you know, unification between culture war factions, but what do you guys think?

01:58:54.000 Jeffrey Epstein.

01:58:55.000 Well, perhaps, but maybe a more positive.

01:58:57.000 No, no, no.

01:58:58.000 He brings together the left and the right against people's condemnation against the state that abused their power and used taxpayers to hurt children for over 30 years in unspeakable ways.

01:59:09.000 That's a bridge right there.

01:59:10.000 That's a gap that the establishment is scared of since people on the left and right are tweeting very important aspects of this story that break down this whole entire structure's power.

01:59:23.000 Putting journalists in handcuffs.

01:59:25.000 Bring left and right.

01:59:26.000 Indicting me for accessory.

01:59:27.000 That's true.

01:59:28.000 If they indict me for accessory after the fact for a source sending me documents, that'll bring left and right together.

01:59:33.000 And it probably is self-preservation because they don't want it to happen to them.

01:59:36.000 Yeah.

01:59:37.000 But what about you, Andy?

01:59:37.000 You know, being on the ground and seeing a lot of this extremism, do you think there's a possibility of uniting people in this country?

01:59:44.000 I thought that the beating assault of a journalist of color who happens to be gay, that was caught on camera.

01:59:54.000 I thought that would be kind of a unifying moment and it wasn't.

01:59:57.000 There was a lot of people on the mainstream left who said essentially that I deserved it, that I was such an agitator or that I allegedly hold such deplorable views that what happened to me was deserving and just and it should happen again.

02:00:10.000 It should happen every time I come out.

02:00:12.000 So I'm a bit less optimistic of the American citizenry, I think, in general.

02:00:18.000 I think what's been very clear since the death of George Floyd and going back and forth after Michael Brown is there's just been this noticeable shift in moral tolerance and political violence.

02:00:33.000 I mean, you cross this line, you know, of accepting violence as a response to disagreement.

02:00:39.000 And then that's how you that's how you break down civilization, societies, and eventually the state.

02:00:45.000 Man, it's a little dark.

02:00:47.000 I think we're, yeah, I think we're a little far from a unifying moment as well, or any kind of unifying figure.

02:00:54.000 We're seeing conservative culture start being on a parallel track, right?

02:00:59.000 Creating its own ecosystem, and I think that's going to continue, you know?

02:01:05.000 Like I was just talking to a woman, Sarah Gonzalez, who has a podcast, and she started a makeup line

02:01:10.000 that's essentially like a conservative makeup line.

02:01:13.000 It's made in the US.

02:01:15.000 And I was like, that's interesting, because I've been talking to people who are starting,

02:01:18.000 you know, I talked to Jason Miller, who started his own conservative,

02:01:22.000 basically based social media platform that's conservative journalism,

02:01:26.000 and now we're gonna have a conservative makeup line.

02:01:28.000 It kind of reminded me of when Christian Soriano found out that no one would design a dress

02:01:33.000 for Melania to wear to the inauguration and he was like, I'll do it.

02:01:36.000 You know?

02:01:37.000 Like, we're gonna see, I think, more of that as opposed to less of that going forward.

02:01:42.000 I agree.

02:01:43.000 And if you're listening now, smash that like button, subscribe to this channel, go to TimCast.com, become a member.

02:01:48.000 We're gonna have a members-only podcast coming up.

02:01:50.000 We post around 11 or so p.m., so make sure you hit that.

02:01:52.000 You can follow the show at TimCast IRL.

02:01:55.000 Follow us on Instagram if you want clips.

02:01:56.000 You can follow me at TimCast.

02:01:58.000 Do you guys want to shout out what you've got going on?

02:02:00.000 I don't know, James?

02:02:01.000 Shout anything out?

02:02:02.000 New stories or anything else?

02:02:03.000 Oh, your book or your website?

02:02:05.000 I mean, the book is AmericanMuckraker.com.

02:02:09.000 AmericanMuckraker.com.

02:02:10.000 You can buy the book at AmericanMuckraker.com.

02:02:12.000 Or you can go on Amazon if you want to support Jeff Bezos.

02:02:16.000 But the book is really a seminal work of non-fiction, recounts the journalistic mass movements of today, eye-opening glimpse into guerrilla journalism.

02:02:25.000 There's a part about Andy Ngo in this book.

02:02:27.000 Chapter 1, Suffering, and David Daleiden.

02:02:32.000 I mean, my closing argument is essentially the image.

02:02:35.000 Images.

02:02:36.000 Images transfix.

02:02:38.000 I think images, you know, Marshall McLuhan once said something to the effect of, images will become more powerful than our own politicians.

02:02:45.000 Government is broken.

02:02:46.000 The solution rests with us.

02:02:48.000 And this is a how-to guide on how to do journalism in clown world. 0.68

02:02:52.000 In clown world. 0.53

02:02:53.000 You need a handbook, like the Boy Scout handbook. 0.80

02:02:55.000 This is what this is for citizen journalists.

02:02:58.000 Andy?

02:02:59.000 My updated book, Unmasked, Inside Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy, is coming out on the 1st of February in an updated version and paperback.

02:03:10.000 So that's available for pre-order now and I encourage, if people like my work, to become a supporter at NGO.Locals.com.

02:03:19.000 Right on! 0.80

02:03:20.000 Thank you.

02:03:21.000 Libby? 0.81

02:03:22.000 I think everyone should come to the Postmillennial, read the work that we've got up.

02:03:26.000 You can subscribe to the Postmillennial.

02:03:27.000 You can donate and help us out at thepostmillennial.com slash donations.

02:03:32.000 And I'm there every day.

02:03:33.000 I'm on Twitter at Libby Emmons.

02:03:35.000 Sweet.

02:03:35.000 So I'm somewhat close to one million subscribers on youtube.com forward slash we are change, which I release videos on routinely.

02:03:43.000 And before we leave, shouts out to Dana White.

02:03:46.000 He dropped some major truth bombs today.

02:03:48.000 I actually talked about that on my LukeUncensored.com video.

02:03:52.000 Hope to see some of you guys there.

02:03:54.000 I've been working really hard lately and I can't thank you guys for all coming and being in the same room.

02:03:59.000 It was a great productive conversation.

02:04:01.000 Thank you guys for putting it all together.

02:04:04.000 Also, Tim, ProjectVeritasExperience.com.

02:04:07.000 We're having a book launch event in Miami, January 29th.

02:04:10.000 ProjectVeritasExperience.com if you want to go.

02:04:12.000 Yes, awesome.

02:04:13.000 I was just going to say, too, if you guys do end up using Amazon, you can donate to Project Veritas.

02:04:18.000 That's true.

02:04:18.000 Your Amazon smile, I believe that's what it's called.

02:04:21.000 That's what I use.

02:04:21.000 I thought that was a great finger in the eye of Amazon when I saw that, and I decided to sign up for it.

02:04:26.000 It's awesome.

02:04:26.000 Anyway, you guys may follow me on Twitter at Sour Patchlets.

02:04:30.000 We will see you all over at TimCast.com in about an hour.

02:04:33.000 Thanks for hanging out.

Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - January 18, 2022

Timcast IRL - James O'Keefe, Andy Ngo, And Libby Emmons Join Discussing The State of Journalism

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