Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - Timcast IRL - Left Protest Over Homeless Man's Death In NYC, DEMAND Marine Be Charged w-SerfsTV

00:00:00.000 So we got some protests in New York City after a homeless man named Jordan Neely died.

00:00:19.000 He was put in a chokehold.

00:00:21.000 The man, three people were trying to subdue him and then in the effort to subdue him, the guy died.

00:00:27.000 It was ruled a homicide and now you have protesters calling for charges of this marine and things are starting to get a little hectic.

00:00:33.000 Police are calling for help as things kind of heat up but We're going to get into the nuances of that discussion, so I'll save a little bit.

00:00:39.000 We do have news out of Russia.

00:00:41.000 They're blaming the U.S.

00:00:42.000 for the assassination attempt, so they claim.

00:00:45.000 And we've got some news.

00:00:46.000 Barstool Sports fired one of their hosts for rapping lyrics that contain an offensive word.

00:00:52.000 I don't necessarily think it's fair to call what he said a slur, because he wasn't calling anybody the word, but, you know, he said the word, and then Penn Entertainment was like, you're fired, and now Dave Portnoy is like, I don't know, there's nothing I can do, I sold the company, so, we'll get into that, plus a whole bunch of other stories, and, um...

00:01:09.000 We'll talk about the news.

00:01:11.000 Banks collapsing.

00:01:12.000 We got Paul Stanley, the frontman for KISS, is kind of walking back his statement on transgender kids.

00:01:19.000 And a lot to talk about.

00:01:21.000 Before we get started, my friends, today's episode is brought to you by Cast Brew Coffee.

00:01:25.000 Take a look at this bag right here.

00:01:26.000 This is Cast Brew Coffee over at castbrew.com.

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00:01:39.000 See, he's right there in the back.

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00:01:43.000 So if you want to support the show and support our work, go to casprew.com.

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00:01:49.000 Click that Join Us button to become a member.

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00:02:17.000 Joining us tonight to talk about this and so much more is Lance from the Serfs.

00:02:21.000 Thank you so much for having me.

00:02:22.000 I'm tripping balls being in this room right now.

00:02:24.000 It feels like I took evil acid or something. 0.88

00:02:26.000 Because I've been watching this show so much.

00:02:27.000 Yeah, just like everything is here.

00:02:27.000 Evil acid?

00:02:30.000 It's wild.

00:02:30.000 It's bigger than it looks like, right?

00:02:32.000 And when you're actually sitting in the room, it's actually, there's a lot more props than you ever give this place credit for.

00:02:32.000 It's bigger than it looks like.

00:02:36.000 I thought there was just like some samurai swords and like the occasional gun or something, but there's like... That's a real Civil War rifle.

00:02:42.000 There's a real Civil War musket in the camera.

00:02:44.000 That's right, rifled musket.

00:02:46.000 Absolutely.

00:02:47.000 Union Civil War, it was never used.

00:02:48.000 It's like a museum here.

00:02:49.000 Very cool.

00:02:50.000 Yeah, very cool stuff.

00:02:51.000 Yeah, so what do you do?

00:02:52.000 Who are you?

00:02:53.000 I am a leftist commentator.

00:02:55.000 I do politics, comedy from a dumpster fire perspective, and I have opinions, and sometimes people like to hear those opinions, and then they tune in to listen to them.

00:03:03.000 Oh, sounds good.

00:03:04.000 All right, well, thanks for joining us.

00:03:05.000 I'm sure we have a lot of opinions to go through.

00:03:06.000 We also got the exact inversion of Lance, Seamus Coghlan.

00:03:10.000 That's how they describe me on the streets.

00:03:13.000 My name is Seamus Coghlan, I make cartoons.

00:03:20.000 We call them freedom tunes.

00:03:22.000 He's British? 0.98

00:03:23.000 Why do you always have to take it to an ethnic place with me, man?

00:03:26.000 Why is he ripping on me for being Irish?

00:03:28.000 I was born here.

00:03:31.000 I make cartoons.

00:03:32.000 I have a YouTube channel called Freedom Tunes.

00:03:34.000 I'm also a podcaster.

00:03:35.000 We uploaded a cartoon today, by the way.

00:03:37.000 Y'all might want to check that one out.

00:03:39.000 And I also have a stream on Rumble called Shamer, if y'all want to take a peek at that as well.

00:03:46.000 Now we have Moon Lord himself.

00:03:47.000 I am the Moon Lord.

00:03:48.000 He knows.

00:03:49.000 No longer Weed Lord, I have evolved.

00:03:51.000 I have become one with the essence of the vibration and the fabric of reality.

00:03:57.000 So good to see you, Lance.

00:03:58.000 So good to be here.

00:03:59.000 And if you don't know, you don't know.

00:04:01.000 But I am the Moon Lord.

00:04:02.000 Let's get hot.

00:04:04.000 Uh, and iamsurge.com as always, guys.

00:04:06.000 Let's get to it.

00:04:07.000 Let's jump into this first- What are you- What are you- Wait, actually- You're pressing the wrong button over here.

00:04:10.000 This is- I- I- I gotta flag this.

00:04:12.000 This is the first time Ian and I have done a show together in almost a year.

00:04:15.000 Since we screamed about- I was yelling at you about religion or something.

00:04:17.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:04:18.000 And alcohol, I think, too.

00:04:18.000 Exactly.

00:04:19.000 It is our first show.

00:04:20.000 Yeah, that's our first show back.

00:04:20.000 Welcome back, Sharers.

00:04:21.000 Great to be here, man.

00:04:22.000 It's good to be here, man.

00:04:22.000 Yeah, I've evolved on my stance on religion.

00:04:24.000 We've also talked off-air.

00:04:26.000 We've talked off-air a good bit, but it's just funny that it's like, I just realized this is our first episode we're both doing together, because I've been seeing you for the past two weeks.

00:04:33.000 Yeah, we went, last time we talked, we were talking about like, I brought a vice.

00:04:36.000 I was talking about, oh, alcohol, so your vice, or whatever. 0.99

00:04:39.000 I said, I think that was the real point of contention, and everyone's like, Ian, you're such a dick. 0.99

00:04:43.000 I was like, I was just talking to Seamus. 0.99

00:04:44.000 I mean, we were just talking.

00:04:45.000 Yeah, but bro, he's Irish.

00:04:46.000 You can't say that.

00:04:48.000 I don't remember exactly what it was, but I don't really care.

00:04:53.000 It was a discussion about alcohol, because I was saying that alcohol is not inherently sinful.

00:04:57.000 Christ turned water into wine.

00:04:58.000 It was his first public miracle.

00:04:59.000 His blood was made of wine, right?

00:05:03.000 With transubstantiation, the properties of bread and wine remain, but it actually becomes his flesh and blood.

00:05:09.000 I've had serious problems with alcohol personally, which is probably why I was projecting issues.

00:05:13.000 Oh, I was just asking, like, when you actually eat the blood of Christ, is that, Christ is inside you?

00:05:13.000 What were you saying?

00:05:18.000 Yeah.

00:05:18.000 And then, but like, his blood is alcoholic?

00:05:20.000 Is that why it's wine?

00:05:21.000 So, the properties of bread and wine remain, but what we believe as Catholics is that it's his literal flesh and blood.

00:05:26.000 Okay.

00:05:27.000 By his body, blood, soul, and divinity.

00:05:28.000 Interesting.

00:05:29.000 So, but he's not made of bread and wine?

00:05:31.000 No, he's not literally made of bread and wine, no.

00:05:32.000 And, get crunk! 1.00

00:05:34.000 All right, let's read the news.

00:05:35.000 Here we go.

00:05:35.000 Wait, we also have Serge Dupre out here.

00:05:37.000 Serge, you already did say what's up.

00:05:39.000 Oh, okay, cool.

00:05:40.000 Man, moon lord.

00:05:41.000 Thanks, doc.

00:05:42.000 All right, here's the story.

00:05:43.000 We got this ABC7 New York police issue.

00:05:45.000 Call for help!

00:05:46.000 Outrage continues to grow over deadly subway chokehold encounter.

00:05:50.000 The death of a subway rider who was put into a chokehold by a former Marine on the train has been ruled a homicide, and now activists are calling for charges to be filed.

00:05:58.000 They have planned several protests and rallies on Thursday, as the NYPD has issued a call for public help in their investigation.

00:06:06.000 Jordan Neely, 30, died from a compression of the neck, the city's medical examiner determined Wednesday.

00:06:10.000 Neely is recognizable to some New Yorkers as a Michael Jackson impersonator who regularly danced in the Times Square Transit Hub.

00:06:17.000 On Monday afternoon, he was yelling and pacing back and forth on an F train in Manhattan.

00:06:21.000 Witnesses and police said when he was restrained by at least three people, including a U.S.

00:06:26.000 Marine veteran who pulled one arm tightly around his neck.

00:06:29.000 A physical struggle ensued, leading to Neely losing consciousness.

00:06:33.000 He was rushed to Lenox Hill Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

00:06:35.000 On Wednesday, a medical examiner determined Neely's death was a homicide.

00:06:39.000 However, that does not mean the case will be prosecuted as a homicide. 0.98

00:06:42.000 Okay, that's the stupidest bit of writing I've ever heard. 0.96

00:06:44.000 As a murder, they mean. 1.00

00:06:45.000 Homicide means death caused by person.

00:06:47.000 It doesn't mean criminal.

00:06:49.000 So what they're trying to say is, though the death was ruled a homicide, it does not mean the case will be prosecuted as a murder.

00:06:57.000 That is up to the, uh, Manhattan DA's office, which is investigating.

00:07:00.000 But I suppose I'm probably being a little bit too harsh, because you can, uh, they're not being clear here.

00:07:05.000 You can make the argument there's reckless homicide, there's negligent homicide, and so what they're saying is, it's not clear that he will be criminally charged, they probably just should have said.

00:07:14.000 They're going to say, as a part of our rigorous ongoing investigation, we'll review the medical examiner's report, assess all available video and photo footage, identify and interview as many witnesses as possible, and obtain additional medical records, read a statement from a spokesperson for the DA.

00:07:27.000 So we've got video coming out of New York, protesters, I believe this was yesterday, We're seen in the streets, and the police made some arrests, and we'll get into it in a little bit, but one of our reporters, Eliyahu, was physically assaulted by one of the protesters and had his property destroyed while he was in the process of doing journalism.

00:07:47.000 But let's just get down to brass tacks here, because I'm sure there's going to be a lot of arguments about this one.

00:07:52.000 This is the story of a guy who was having a mental breakdown.

00:07:55.000 I guess the news that recently came out was that he was a subway performer and his mental health collapsed after his, I think his mom was killed, is what they're reporting, and after that he kind of just lost it.

00:08:06.000 And then he had been arrested 40 times.

00:08:08.000 He had once punched a 67-year-old woman in the face.

00:08:12.000 And so, as he was belligerent and on the subway, reportedly threatening people, saying that he was ready to die and he would hurt people, this is when the three men subdued him.

00:08:23.000 Reportedly, the Marine told everyone to call 911 and get the police down there.

00:08:28.000 And then he ended up dying, which has resulted in the left, like AOC, whether or not people... I don't know if you consider her left, but AOC... Yeah, she's progressive. 0.60

00:08:37.000 She said this was a public murder.

00:08:39.000 And now you've got protesters calling for this guy to be arrested.

00:08:42.000 They're saying he committed a murder, and I think this is actually a really good example of what is described as a narco-tyranny, in that you had 25 people pushed onto subway tracks in the past year.

00:08:54.000 You've had, like, a woman get raped on a train in Philadelphia.

00:08:58.000 And we don't hear a single peep from any of these politicians, from any of these activists, until someone actually stops the guy.

00:09:05.000 If you go back seven years... Who kills him, right?

00:09:10.000 So when someone is being violent and then someone else acts in self-defense of others and the person dies in the process, now there's all of a sudden calls for, okay, so this guy should be criminally charged, but there was no call for stopping the 25 people being pushed on the subway tracks.

00:09:25.000 That's an ongoing and acceptable thing.

00:09:28.000 I'm never gonna sit here and try and defend people pushing people on the subway tracks.

00:09:30.000 That's a crime, like, that's terrible.

00:09:33.000 Attempted murder.

00:09:33.000 Yeah, exactly, especially if they die, so that's horrible.

00:09:36.000 No one's gonna be on the other side of that argument, but in terms of, like, the guy who just got killed, isn't, and you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, doesn't, in self-defense, the proportionality of what you're doing has to be in response to the actual aggressive actions of the person, right?

00:09:49.000 It has to be proportional?

00:09:50.000 Is that correct?

00:09:51.000 So you feel in your mind that it was a proportional response for him to choke him out to death in that situation because he was going to become such a threat to the person who choked him out.

00:10:01.000 But you made a big leap right there.

00:10:02.000 What's the leap?

00:10:03.000 You're ascribing intent to the Marine to kill.

00:10:06.000 Oh, I'm not saying he intended to kill him.

00:10:08.000 I never said that, but he did end up killing him, right?

00:10:10.000 So that's immaterial.

00:10:12.000 No, but what has to be material, Tim, has to be... Are you making a proportionality argument?

00:10:16.000 Yes, I'm asking you that because is what he did proportional to the threat?

00:10:21.000 So the threat that he was going to do... It is proportional to subdue someone that is threatening other people and saying he'll die in the process.

00:10:28.000 And end up killing him, even if that was... So, see, now you're doing it again.

00:10:32.000 You're ascribing intent.

00:10:33.000 No, I'm not ascribing intent.

00:10:35.000 This is what happened.

00:10:35.000 I'm saying the results.

00:10:36.000 The guy's dead.

00:10:37.000 Results are immaterial to the proportionality of action.

00:10:37.000 He's dead, right?

00:10:39.000 So the proportionality of action in your mind was justified to what he was doing.

00:10:42.000 His actual actions on the ground.

00:10:44.000 He held the guy on the ground while he said, call 911. 0.91

00:10:45.000 And killed him. 0.99

00:10:46.000 And choked him until he died. 1.00

00:10:47.000 You're doing it again.

00:10:48.000 No, you keep saying I'm doing it again.

00:10:49.000 I'm saying this is the end result.

00:10:50.000 I'm not saying this is what he meant to do.

00:10:52.000 Maybe he didn't.

00:10:53.000 I don't know.

00:10:53.000 I don't know what's in his heart.

00:10:54.000 None of us know what he meant to do that day when he woke up.

00:10:54.000 Neither do you.

00:10:56.000 Absolutely.

00:10:56.000 If someone is threatening other people, you are allowed to subdue them.

00:10:59.000 And that would be like an involuntary manslaughter?

00:11:01.000 No, no, no.

00:11:03.000 It's to the point of death.

00:11:03.000 But this is what happened.

00:11:05.000 It's not a criminal... I'm not saying he intended to kill him.

00:11:08.000 That's the difference, right?

00:11:09.000 But if he ended up dying as a result of that, was that proportional? 1.00

00:11:12.000 He needed to be killed. 1.00

00:11:12.000 Yes. 1.00

00:11:14.000 No! 0.97

00:11:14.000 Or he could have killed someone else! 0.97

00:11:15.000 Hold on! 0.98

00:11:15.000 Stop that! 0.98

00:11:16.000 You keep trying to say needed to be... No!

00:11:18.000 No, no, no, no!

00:11:19.000 But that's what happened!

00:11:19.000 That's the end result!

00:11:21.000 You're saying the Marine tried to kill him!

00:11:22.000 No, I didn't say that!

00:11:23.000 You are saying that I'm saying that!

00:11:25.000 You're putting words in my mouth!

00:11:26.000 I'm saying that's what ended up happening!

00:11:27.000 Then why would you say needed to be killed?

00:11:29.000 Because what he did to him, his choke out, ended up with the guy dying.

00:11:32.000 So that was the end result.

00:11:33.000 So his proportional response to what he thought was a threat was that I'm going to choke him out. 0.99

00:11:37.000 I'm not trying to kill him, but I'm going to choke him out. 0.90

00:11:39.000 Whether or not he dies is going to be something that we're just going to remain to be on the cards, right? 0.98

00:11:44.000 This is a chance.

00:11:44.000 We'll leave it up to chance here.

00:11:45.000 So you are making a huge leap right there.

00:11:47.000 There's no leap, Tim.

00:11:48.000 What he's doing is that proportional, is choking someone with the possibility of death, with the possibility of death.

00:11:55.000 Let me tell you.

00:11:57.000 So if someone tried illegally entering my home, I will use whatever force necessary to stop them from illegally entering my home, right?

00:12:05.000 I have the legal justification in the state that I live in to use whatever force necessary to stop someone from entering my home illegally.

00:12:14.000 Now, you can't invite someone in, and there's actually some legal barriers here.

00:12:17.000 Like, if someone actually walks up to your house and the door is open and they walk in, that's actually not an illegal entry.

00:12:23.000 It is to a certain degree, but it's like trespass.

00:12:25.000 It's like your door was open, there was no obstruction, and then you'll make an argument about entering the domicile could be considered fourth-degree burglary, depending on which state you're in.

00:12:32.000 If they actually open the door and enter, they've now committed felony burglary.

00:12:36.000 And you are entitled in West Virginia to use whatever force necessary to stop someone from illegally entering your house.

00:12:41.000 That doesn't mean you just intend to actually kill someone.

00:12:45.000 So in terms of, we're out in the street, someone is threatening someone else.

00:12:49.000 You are legally entitled to subdue them.

00:12:51.000 Now, even if that sub, like, even the act of doing that, it could kill them.

00:12:55.000 Yes, absolutely. 0.90

00:12:56.000 Absolutely.

00:12:57.000 Because, uh, where you're going with it is like, what, what, what sub, what, what act of subduing would be permitted in your mind then?

00:13:05.000 Like holding his hands tightly?

00:13:07.000 One that doesn't have a possibility of death, I would say.

00:13:11.000 Give me one.

00:13:12.000 In your martial arts expertise... Zero.

00:13:16.000 Absolutely zero.

00:13:18.000 I think I can contend that no one here has any, right?

00:13:20.000 Am I in a judo room?

00:13:21.000 I've just watched a lot of movies.

00:13:22.000 Sharp elbows.

00:13:27.000 But no, none of us have black belts. 1.00

00:13:28.000 We don't know this shit. 0.99

00:13:29.000 We're just a bunch of people who talk on the internet, right? 1.00

00:13:30.000 I'm going going black buzzer. I mean I have hostile environment training and I have some minimal martial arts

00:13:35.000 training minimal minimal minimal I didn't I've done I've done some kung fu taekwondo. So

00:13:39.000 once again, there's no experts here and cop what us yeah So certainly we'll contend. I am NOT an expert. However, if

00:13:46.000 someone is threatening harm against another person and Three people find it reasonable to subdue him and the

00:13:52.000 person dies that person was in the process of committing a crime

00:13:55.000 If you lose your life in the process of committing a crime, I'm not gonna blame the victims for this, right?

00:14:00.000 Would you blame the victims for this?

00:14:02.000 When you're saying victims, you mean the people who killed him?

00:14:04.000 The people who are being attacked.

00:14:05.000 But were they attacked prior or did they try to subdue him?

00:14:07.000 Do we have footage before?

00:14:09.000 No, I don't think so.

00:14:10.000 So in New York, for example, if you go up to someone and threaten them, you've committed a crime, right?

00:14:15.000 You've committed a criminal act of violence against another person by threatening them and going up to their face.

00:14:21.000 And so you're saying at that point you have the ability to proportionally respond with violence?

00:14:25.000 Actually, there's a video of this.

00:14:27.000 MythInformed has it, seven years ago, this man was called a hero for defusing violence by putting another man in a chokehold.

00:14:33.000 A man in the subway was getting up in people's faces, and he was threatening them, and another man got up behind him and put him in a chokehold, and he was put on national television, and he was celebrated as a hero for doing so.

00:14:43.000 So, this is what I'm talking about, anarcho-tyranny.

00:14:45.000 I feel like you're latching onto this completely from a point of, you don't have knowledge on proper technique for subduing an individual.

00:14:53.000 None of us do.

00:14:53.000 Nor the legal expertise.

00:14:55.000 None of us do as well.

00:14:56.000 But, see, that's kind of an absurd thing to just outright Well, look, I'm going to say this guy committed a murder and should go to prison, but I'm not an expert and neither are you, therefore he should be convicted.

00:15:07.000 I never said that.

00:15:07.000 I'm actually asking questions because these are things that I don't fully understand about, is it legal for him to do what he did?

00:15:13.000 Yes, that's why he wasn't charged.

00:15:14.000 It is proportionally legal.

00:15:16.000 Yes.

00:15:16.000 That's why he wasn't charged, he was released.

00:15:18.000 However, in this day and age, what's likely going to happen is a narco-tyranny. 0.91

00:15:22.000 People go out in the streets, they protest, and the police say, for political reasons, we're going to go find this guy and we're going to arrest him.

00:15:26.000 But I don't know, it depends.

00:15:28.000 Unfortunately, we don't have footage of what happened before the chokehold.

00:15:30.000 That's what I'd like to know.

00:15:31.000 But if there's enough people on the train that are witness to what was happening, and they're like, yo, he was threatening all of us, then I think the cops are not going to mess with that guy.

00:15:38.000 And that's what was reported.

00:15:40.000 And there were three men trying to subdue him as he fought back.

00:15:43.000 So there's no debate that this guy was acting violently and threatening people and even said he was prepared to die.

00:15:50.000 At that point, you have what could be a terroristic threat.

00:15:54.000 I think if a guy got on a train and screamed, I'm going to cause harm to people and then said he was willing to die, you'd probably want to stop him because there's signs all over the subway saying if you see something, say something.

00:16:05.000 I suppose we could go the route of when Luke Rudkowski had that video, there was a guy in a subway with a knife stabbing people and the cop said, we're not going to get involved at all.

00:16:13.000 And then some guy had to try and intervene himself.

00:16:15.000 It's funny, that guy's a hero.

00:16:16.000 Yeah, that was, I think, oh yeah, here it is.

00:16:18.000 Matt Walsh retweeted Alexandra Cortez's tweet from six hours ago and asking specifically, what are they supposed to do?

00:16:23.000 What are people supposed to do in this situation?

00:16:24.000 Are they supposed to sit there?

00:16:25.000 If someone's screaming, they're going to hurt somebody?

00:16:27.000 You just sit there and wait until they actually hurts the person and then you respond?

00:16:32.000 And I'm just curious, you know, honest question.

00:16:34.000 We have the story from the Daily Mail from October.

00:16:37.000 25 victims have been shoved in front of subway cars so far this year.

00:16:40.000 Two victims were killed.

00:16:42.000 Where was the protest?

00:16:47.000 Well, you know, where was the video footage of it?

00:16:50.000 There is video footage of it!

00:16:51.000 Is it public?

00:16:52.000 Yes!

00:16:52.000 Public video footage?

00:16:53.000 And I can't play it on YouTube, but yo, there's video footage of people being pushed in front of trains!

00:16:58.000 And, and, and, where's AOC?

00:17:00.000 Where's any of these protesters?

00:17:02.000 Nowhere to be found.

00:17:04.000 Anarcho-tyranny is that when the criminals do it, as explained in, uh, what was it?

00:17:09.000 Solzhenitsyn?

00:17:09.000 The Gulag Archipelago?

00:17:11.000 When a criminal does this act in the Soviet Union, they didn't- that's just a criminal, that's what they do. 0.92

00:17:16.000 But when you, the citizen, defend yourself, you knew better.

00:17:19.000 But so you're blaming AOC for not bringing attention to this specifically?

00:17:22.000 Blaming? 0.78

00:17:23.000 Or are you saying that she's hypocritical? 1.00

00:17:26.000 Because she doesn't talk about the people being pushed in front of trains, but she's talking about this now?

00:17:29.000 Is that what you're saying?

00:17:30.000 I'm not saying hypocritical.

00:17:31.000 No, I'm saying I have a question of why now?

00:17:35.000 Why only when people are victimized and they defend themselves are we now upset about what happened on the subway?

00:17:42.000 We're talking about a poor homeless person who may have been having an episode and died in what ended up being the struggle.

00:17:50.000 So why are the people who were subduing him victims?

00:17:53.000 He assaulted them.

00:17:56.000 So you have that on camera, that he assaulted them first.

00:17:57.000 According to all the news reports and the police and the witness statements- Can we see the footage?

00:18:02.000 I want to see- I haven't seen that yet.

00:18:03.000 I think we can show the choke out.

00:18:05.000 Okay, so according to the news reports, the witnesses, and the police, he went and threatened violence against people, which is assault.

00:18:10.000 Right, but you're saying he specifically threatened violence against the people who subdued him.

00:18:14.000 Do we have evidence of that?

00:18:15.000 It's one thing for him to be in a train being like, I'm- You're not winning an argument here.

00:18:19.000 I'm not trying to win an argument.

00:18:20.000 You're being awfully pedantic.

00:18:22.000 Awfully pedantic?

00:18:23.000 Yes.

00:18:24.000 Why would you use pedantic in this form?

00:18:26.000 As in like, I'm trying to get to the root of this problem, right?

00:18:28.000 No, no, no.

00:18:29.000 It's absurd to imply that if a woman, if a guy walks up to a woman and says he's going to harm her, that another man can't protect her.

00:18:35.000 Right, and so this is why I'm asking, did he say to the people who subdued him, I'm going to harm you? 0.52

00:18:40.000 I'm going to hurt you.

00:18:41.000 That's immaterial to a self-defense claim in proportionality.

00:18:44.000 If this guy was threatening people, right, and then someone said, I'm going to stop you before you hurt someone, that is legal self-defense acting in the defense of others.

00:18:54.000 That makes those people who are stopping the guy threatening people the victims of a violent individual who is trying to cause harm.

00:19:02.000 I just find it fascinating that there's an effort to defend the aggressor in this circumstance, right?

00:19:08.000 Oh, so you're suggesting that the guys, even if the guys that were choking out weren't the ones being threatened, that they're still considered a victim because they stepped in to defend other people?

00:19:15.000 Well, I'm saying outright that if you're on a train and there's a guy, you're on a train, you can't get off that train.

00:19:20.000 You are trapped, right?

00:19:21.000 I used to live in this area, by the way.

00:19:23.000 I used to live in Flatbush.

00:19:24.000 I used to take these trains every single day.

00:19:26.000 I have seen this.

00:19:27.000 I have seen this and worse.

00:19:28.000 I have seen people in the middle of episodes where I was like, this person could potentially either harm themself or harm me.

00:19:33.000 It never crossed my mind that I need to choke them out to the point of potential death in order to protect everyone else on the train.

00:19:38.000 That never even went through my mind.

00:19:39.000 So that's why I'm asking you, do you have specific footage of him threatening the very people who subdued and ended up killing him?

00:19:45.000 But why does that matter?

00:19:46.000 I don't think there is footage.

00:19:48.000 Well, then that's all I want to know.

00:19:49.000 What does that have to do with what I said?

00:19:51.000 That's why I understand your thought process.

00:19:53.000 I would think that the proportionality being that you ended up killing them, even if that was not your intent, I understand that you don't think he intended to do that, fine, but even if that was it, were they, like, threats to him in the immediate, like, present?

00:20:06.000 Were they on the verge of committing an act of violence towards him that required proportional violence that ended up in death?

00:20:13.000 But it's not a requirement someone threatens you for you to act in defense of others.

00:20:18.000 Right?

00:20:19.000 So your question is kind of in an unnecessary direction.

00:20:23.000 And I'll elaborate.

00:20:24.000 If you're on a train and you're trapped in a box and someone is threatening violence, then yeah, you're a victim.

00:20:30.000 So I've been a victim multiple times then.

00:20:32.000 I was in these subways.

00:20:33.000 Absolutely!

00:20:34.000 It's the craziest thing to me.

00:20:35.000 But I don't feel like a victim.

00:20:37.000 I've never been hurt.

00:20:38.000 I never was hurt by people who were going through those kind of episodes.

00:20:40.000 Other people have been.

00:20:41.000 I'm not saying they haven't.

00:20:42.000 I'm not saying this is a good thing.

00:20:43.000 25 people were pushed in front of trains.

00:20:44.000 Okay, so these 25 people were pushed in front of trains.

00:20:46.000 How is that directly related?

00:20:47.000 Were these people also going through episodes?

00:20:48.000 Were they also people who were homeless?

00:20:50.000 Did they have mental illness?

00:20:53.000 I would say anybody shoving someone in front of a train at random is like going through an episode, you know what I mean?

00:20:58.000 The correlation is that crime and murder on the subway has been increasing, or has at least been apparent in the press, but I don't see you caring about it at all.

00:21:08.000 Until it's the aggressor who gets killed.

00:21:10.000 No one, I think, on the left is going to defend this stat that you're pulling.

00:21:14.000 Then why put a guy in prison for finally saying, stop killing people?

00:21:17.000 This is like, Tim, if I approached you today and I was like, hey, do you know what goes on in Rikers Island?

00:21:21.000 Have any of you done a show on what happens in Rikers Island?

00:21:23.000 How they hold people in Rikers Island?

00:21:24.000 Do you know what- Not Rikers Island specifically, but we talk about prison reform all the time.

00:21:28.000 Okay, do you know about bail reform and the fact that people die in Rikers Island waiting, waiting to have their day in court because they can't afford it.

00:21:35.000 And we've talked about it. 0.99

00:21:35.000 And you've done entire shows on that, and you've talked about how people literally die in prison while they're waiting for that shit? 0.99

00:21:40.000 That's terrible! 0.98

00:21:41.000 Okay, so we actually talked about one guy who got wrongly arrested, lost his job, was kicked out of his apartment, went to Rikers for three months, only to be released, and then told, sorry, there's nothing you can do about it.

00:21:51.000 The city owes him nothing because they considered the prosecution not to be malicious.

00:21:54.000 But this is the problem, man.

00:21:58.000 We talk about stuff like this all the time.

00:22:01.000 The example you just gave me was not me talking about the systemic problem of people who are poor being in Rikers Island before they get to trial.

00:22:09.000 They die before they get- they're not released.

00:22:11.000 You just gave me a story of someone who was released prior to that.

00:22:12.000 I'm giving you an example of a specific show we've actually talked about someone wrongly held and had their life destroyed.

00:22:18.000 Okay.

00:22:18.000 Now, of course, we can go on further and say, yes, people have died.

00:22:21.000 Yes, the system is corrupt.

00:22:22.000 And my point is this.

00:22:24.000 When we talk about stuff like this, like, wow, in October, we talked about 25 people being pushed in front of train cars. 0.99

00:22:30.000 You guys just shit all over us and ignore these problems. 0.96

00:22:32.000 Then finally, when three guys... No one is ignoring this. 0.99

00:22:35.000 I told you, no one's on the other side of this.

00:22:36.000 No one is pro-push people onto trains.

00:22:39.000 Where's your protest?

00:22:39.000 Where's my protest?

00:22:41.000 Yeah, where's your protest?

00:22:42.000 Where's your Rikers protest?

00:22:43.000 We headed on the show, but you don't watch the show!

00:22:45.000 You did a protest?

00:22:46.000 You did an actual protest?

00:22:47.000 You guys stood up and walked to the streets or what?

00:22:49.000 We don't go on the streets ever, right?

00:22:50.000 You do.

00:22:50.000 I'm not blaming you for not talking about that, Tim, because this is the problem of, like, you're judging someone based on absence, based on your absence of caring about something.

00:22:58.000 Why haven't you talked about this, Lance?

00:22:59.000 The fact that you haven't talked about this means that you don't care about that.

00:23:01.000 That's not what I said.

00:23:02.000 That's not true, though!

00:23:02.000 That's not what I said.

00:23:03.000 But that's the implication.

00:23:04.000 No, no, no. 0.98

00:23:05.000 My implication is, instead of helping us deal with this when we talk about it, you make up garbage about us and then post nonsense on the internet. 0.91

00:23:12.000 What if I brought up garbage about people pushing people to trains?

00:23:14.000 This is the most random example.

00:23:15.000 I'm not talking about you saying... I'm saying you don't talk about it, right?

00:23:20.000 I'm not criticizing you for not talking about it.

00:23:22.000 I'm saying, finally, when there are people who are like, we've had 25 people pushed in front of trains, we've had two of them killed, I'm not gonna let this person hurt somebody, it's y'all saying, that person should go to prison.

00:23:32.000 So how is that solving the problem?

00:23:34.000 You guys are making it worse.

00:23:37.000 Your protests, your support for the criminals make this worse.

00:23:40.000 So our solution to this, if you're asking, when you're saying you, you mean the left, right?

00:23:44.000 Our solution to a lot of this- You're speaking in support of the criminal, so I'm saying you.

00:23:48.000 Okay, so I am saying that the solution to a lot of this would be investing very heavily in things like healthcare, and making sure that people have access to it, and not cutting the restrictions.

00:23:59.000 Allowing people to have access to healthcare, not as a requirement based on how much money they have, based on their income, but allowing them to get the care they need, that would have gone a long way to preventing a problem like this, and future problems that are going to happen.

00:24:09.000 I have no idea what's going on with the 25 people who've been pushed in front of trains, if it happens to be because people have mental illness.

00:24:15.000 This is a tangible solution that we could work towards.

00:24:17.000 This is something that I'm... Are you against that idea about investing heavily into mental health care, public health care?

00:24:22.000 Well then, there you go.

00:24:24.000 That's a much better line.

00:24:25.000 So here's my issue.

00:24:26.000 My issue is, when this story came out in October, we talked about it.

00:24:29.000 And we said, why is this happening?

00:24:30.000 What are the solutions?

00:24:31.000 What are the problems?

00:24:32.000 When this story comes out now, you, completely ignorant of what's been going on in New York, side with the criminal.

00:24:39.000 And so people like me are flabbergasted that we've been focused on the issue of crime, the issue of mental health, the entire time, going back several years.

00:24:49.000 And this is why I left New York, because two cops got murdered outside of my apartment.

00:24:54.000 And then what do we hear?

00:24:56.000 Protesters in the street defending the criminals.

00:24:59.000 You keep saying criminal.

00:25:00.000 I have a problem with criminalizing people who are homeless or people who are poor or people who are mentally ill.

00:25:05.000 I'm not saying he's a criminal for being poor.

00:25:07.000 I'm saying he's a criminal because he threatened people with harm.

00:25:10.000 Like incitement to violence is a crime, just like AOC says, right?

00:25:13.000 I really want to see the start of this video footage.

00:25:15.000 I want to see the moment where he was threatening the very people who tried to take him down.

00:25:18.000 Look, either you accept that the witnesses, the media, and the police say this is what happened, or we can agree no one has any idea, so there's no point in even talking about it.

00:25:25.000 I think the interesting maybe confluence is that you were mentioning preventative measures are a way to go about it.

00:25:32.000 What do you think about defensive measures, like people should be armed and ready for this kind of thing regardless of the prevention methods?

00:25:37.000 I mean, when it comes to defensive measures and people should be armed, I'm going to probably be on the exact opposite as the rest of you, because you're probably very pro-gun here, right?

00:25:47.000 We don't have the same problems in Canada that you do in the United States for mass shootings, for mass gun violence, for that kind of stuff.

00:25:51.000 You have 30 million people, don't you?

00:25:53.000 Is it 30 million?

00:25:53.000 Okay, so by ratio of the population, Tim.

00:25:55.000 So if you compare ratio of the population, Canadians to America, we don't have mass shootings like you do.

00:25:59.000 No one else does.

00:26:00.000 It's a uniquely American problem. 0.84

00:26:01.000 The mass shooting thing is a uniquely American thing. 0.94

00:26:03.000 Obesity is pretty heavy here.

00:26:04.000 Well, it's... I don't think it's fair to say uniquely American because there are mass shootings in many other countries.

00:26:09.000 Oh, there is, but it's a uniquely American problem that it's disproportionately happening here.

00:26:13.000 Well, mass killings aren't a uniquely American problem, but mass killings done with the use of firearms is much more uniquely American.

00:26:20.000 I don't think anyone's going to debate that countries that have fewer firearms are going to have fewer people killing each other with firearms.

00:26:25.000 It then becomes a moral question of whether it's... Australia has more per capita than the United States?

00:26:29.000 Is that correct?

00:26:29.000 More per capita?

00:26:30.000 That is not true.

00:26:30.000 No country comes close to the United States.

00:26:31.000 I just looked up a list of countries by... No, no, no, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

00:26:37.000 That was a mistake.

00:26:38.000 Sorry, Australia.

00:26:38.000 El Salvador, Venezuela.

00:26:39.000 Is it alright if I just finish my thought?

00:26:42.000 Sure.

00:26:43.000 So my basic point is... Yeah, that was way off.

00:26:46.000 The United States is not the most.

00:26:48.000 It is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9th.

00:26:50.000 El Salvador!

00:26:52.000 And so of all the other countries in that list, which of them are considered part of the G20?

00:26:55.000 You have to compare countries that have similar economic systems, similar economic, like, societal, you know, structures.

00:27:01.000 The United States places number one when you compare them to any other G20 country.

00:27:05.000 No, so it's true that as far as developed nations go, the United States does have a much higher rate of gun violence.

00:27:09.000 I don't deny that.

00:27:09.000 My argument is simply that other nations do have higher rates, depending on the nation that you're looking at.

00:27:14.000 There's still a pretty decently high homicide rate in a lot of developed countries, and there are a lot of mass killings.

00:27:20.000 In the United States, those mass killings are generally carried out with firearms, but according to CDC studies, firearms are used to prevent more violent crimes each year than they're used to commit.

00:27:28.000 So, it's a much more complex argument than simply saying the U.S.

00:27:31.000 has more firearm deaths, therefore restricting firearm ownership would prevent those.

00:27:36.000 Let me ask you, too.

00:27:37.000 Do you know what country has the most grenade attacks?

00:27:40.000 I only know the answer because I saw you type in it.

00:27:42.000 I think it's Sweden, right?

00:27:43.000 I actually didn't type that in.

00:27:45.000 By the way, decently high murder rate was very clumsy.

00:27:48.000 I don't want to cheat, but I saw you type in it.

00:27:50.000 I didn't type in Sweden.

00:27:52.000 I typed in most grenade attacks by country and Sweden is the only thing that comes up.

00:27:56.000 And yeah, Sweden has more grenade attacks than any other country, but grenades are illegal there.

00:28:04.000 Why are there grenade attacks in Sweden?

00:28:06.000 I would love to answer this question.

00:28:07.000 So if we're going back to guns and the US versus Canada.

00:28:11.000 When I said that there's G20, if we look at all the G20 countries, the United States, disproportionately by ratio of the population, has way more gun deaths, way more gun violence.

00:28:18.000 And a lot of that gun violence, by the way, is people killing themselves, just so we're completely clear.

00:28:21.000 Yeah.

00:28:23.000 If you look at it in the framework of, Canada has a very different set of rules for firearms than the United States does.

00:28:30.000 You can still have a firearm in Canada, you just have to take a two-day course, and you get a license, and then you get gun training, and then you have the ability to buy guns.

00:28:36.000 And that way, everyone has a license, they know how to use firearms properly, they're not just gonna be running around the streets pointing them, and then all that kind of shit.

00:28:42.000 And you can also control for that.

00:28:44.000 But that's not, that's not what's happening in the United States, like people just running around randomly, like...

00:28:48.000 I'm not saying that it is.

00:28:49.000 But I'm saying that in my opinion, that is a better system.

00:28:53.000 I'm not trying to take your guns away.

00:28:54.000 Hell no.

00:28:55.000 I think guns are fun. 0.89

00:28:56.000 We all love shooting guns. 1.00

00:28:57.000 I like having a second penis. 0.98

00:28:58.000 I'm just saying that at the end of the day, if you look at how it works with Canada, this could be applied to the United States federally. 0.99

00:29:03.000 You could have a program, a federal program, where you have to have a two-day gun training program.

00:29:07.000 You tax the gun producers and the weapons manufacturers, and then you get them to pay for it so poor people could afford this program.

00:29:13.000 But you can't do that because gun ownership is a constitutional right.

00:29:17.000 Or I should say, gun ownership is a human right guaranteed, protected against government infringement.

00:29:23.000 I'm all about training in schools.

00:29:24.000 I think the public schools should have gun training for kids.

00:29:27.000 Like they used to.

00:29:27.000 They used to, yeah.

00:29:28.000 Absolutely.

00:29:28.000 Gun clubs.

00:29:30.000 I would highly advocate for more training, but you're just suggesting that you can't force it on people?

00:29:34.000 The Constitution, clearly, and according to the writings of the Founding Fathers, and to, I think, Heller vs.

00:29:40.000 D.C., gun ownership is a human right, and the Constitution protects against government infringement of that right.

00:29:47.000 That being said, we got the NFA, we got the updates to the NFA in the 80s, so certainly gun rights have been infringed to an absurd degree.

00:29:55.000 Not to mention, back in the days when they codified the Constitution, people owned warships Privately.

00:30:02.000 And Halliburton, Northrop Grumman, well I shouldn't say Halliburton, they're a construction thing, but Northrop Grumman, Boeing, etc.

00:30:08.000 Lockheed.

00:30:09.000 These companies are private companies that build nuclear weapons.

00:30:11.000 So we basically where we're at right now is that private corporations with no accountability can

00:30:16.000 have the most powerful weapons of mass destruction in the world, but them and the government and like

00:30:21.000 so the con like I just it doesn't follow either either the people have the power

00:30:26.000 or they don't have the power right we've abdicated it to corrupt organizations.

00:30:30.000 And corporations are not people.

00:30:31.000 Right.

00:30:31.000 Let's be clear.

00:30:34.000 Regarding this dude that choked the guy out, I think what's going to come up is, was it adequate force or was it too much?

00:30:40.000 And I feel like if he had punched the guy directly in the face, that would have been worse.

00:30:45.000 Although, like if they got into a fistfight, because he could have fallen backward and hit his head, at least this he was in control of the guy's body.

00:30:51.000 It's really sad that the guy died, but I feel like this was like a very low level amount of force to apply to someone that was threatening to kill people or hurt people.

00:30:59.000 Why did three people...

00:31:01.000 Find it necessary to try and stop this guy.

00:31:02.000 He was probably flailing and kicking and screaming, you know, who knows?

00:31:05.000 So it is hard, because you mentioned there's no footage prior, but something happened that resulted in three New York people, who are likely not conservatives, to decide this man must be subdued.

00:31:16.000 Three people.

00:31:17.000 So when it comes to the idea of proportionality, I'm like, if three New Yorkers of all people were like, this guy's got to be stopped, that's kind of crazy to me because, look, I'm a gun nut, right?

00:31:29.000 My view is people have a right to defend themselves with a lot more force than people in New York do, but if people in New York felt they had to stop him, these people, you know, I doubt these guys are conservative, there's like no conservatives live in New York, it's like 20% Republican, and if they are Republican, they're probably moderate, right?

00:31:43.000 Something must have happened.

00:31:45.000 But I don't even need to sit here and say what could have or what must have.

00:31:48.000 What we know, what we choose to believe, based on what the police, the media, and the witnesses have said, is that this guy was threatening people with violence and said he was prepared to lose his life over it.

00:31:58.000 Three men then said this man must be subdued and they subdued him.

00:32:02.000 And then the guy died. 0.99

00:32:03.000 Which sucks. 0.99

00:32:04.000 It's unfortunate. 0.98

00:32:04.000 Did he get a cause of death? 0.98

00:32:06.000 It was a compression of the neck.

00:32:07.000 Yeah.

00:32:08.000 Homicide.

00:32:09.000 So you've got a massive platform here.

00:32:10.000 A lot of people watch you all the time.

00:32:11.000 And so what you say, obviously, and advocate for is going to affect a lot of people's lives.

00:32:16.000 If this is a problem that genuinely concerns you, why isn't it something that you would frame and want to advocate for more resources for mental health access and bring that up on a regular basis?

00:32:25.000 And I'm not saying... And I'm sure... Okay, hold on, Tim.

00:32:27.000 I'm sure you've done it before.

00:32:28.000 I'm sure you've had specials before.

00:32:28.000 We do it a lot.

00:32:29.000 I'm what?

00:32:30.000 We do it a lot.

00:32:30.000 Okay.

00:32:31.000 Why isn't that the focus?

00:32:32.000 Why isn't the day, hey, by the way, everybody, this horrifying tragedy happened on the New York subway.

00:32:36.000 We got to talk about this.

00:32:37.000 Here's our angle.

00:32:39.000 Our angle is we need to invest in mental health.

00:32:42.000 We need to invest in giving access to public health care for Americans.

00:32:45.000 First of all, When it comes to the issue of violence in this country, conservatives have been screaming about mental health for decades.

00:32:53.000 Reagan is one of the ones that, like, gutted the institutions in America.

00:32:56.000 Yeah, Reagan's one of the worst presidents this country's ever had. 1.00

00:32:58.000 No-fault divorce, how about that shit? 1.00

00:33:00.000 Gun control. 1.00

00:33:02.000 I don't know why Republicans like that guy.

00:33:03.000 The reason that they like him is because of the way that he stood up to communism, but I totally agree that he had a lot of really bad policies, and I'm not a stan.

00:33:11.000 But conservatives have taken the stance of gun violence and mass shootings as an issue of mental health.

00:33:16.000 and then the left takes the opposing. But do they invest in that? Do they vote for it?

00:33:20.000 Well, of course not. The Republican Party is garbage. When I look up the votes of the 1.00

00:33:23.000 Republican Party, they're not voting for amendments that are actually going to

00:33:26.000 like give people more access to mental health. But you don't want to come onto a show where

00:33:34.000 we say the Democratic and Republican Party should be dismantled and obliterated and then

00:33:37.000 make an argument that one side is bad.

00:33:39.000 I'll sit here and be like, bro, if you want to make a list of every single member of Congress who should be removed from office, I will put all of them but like four.

00:33:48.000 One problem is that when people advocate for mental health, a lot of that advocation is more drugs, that this new drug will fix your brain.

00:33:54.000 But I'm of the belief that less drugs allow you to fix your... Like, sometimes, for very short periods of time, you might need something to help, but then you don't want people long-term.

00:34:02.000 I don't want them on psycho, you know, crazy pharmaceuticals that make them go, you know...

00:34:07.000 Right, right, right.

00:34:08.000 And we have to bring up, often this medication actually increases suicidal ideation and aggressive thoughts and things like that.

00:34:14.000 But I do want to answer your question.

00:34:16.000 You said, why isn't that the subject of the show today?

00:34:19.000 Yeah, or the premise, or the framing of it.

00:34:20.000 Right, right.

00:34:20.000 Because when we do talk about this stuff, On, like, a normal day when news breaks of, like, 25 people push in front of trains, or a woman was raped on a train in Philadelphia, and we're sitting here saying, like, what is going on in these cities?

00:34:34.000 What are the failed policies that are resulting in this?

00:34:37.000 We talk about it all the time.

00:34:38.000 Today, we're talking about the fact that protesters went out in New York and physically assaulted one of our friends, a reporter, because he simply filmed them, and they are demanding criminal charges of the guy who tried to stop the violent offense.

00:34:52.000 See, that is a narco-tyranny. 0.99

00:34:54.000 That when you have ongoing crime, when you have victimization, people being killed and a woman being raped on a train, we talk for a year, two years, three years.

00:35:03.000 When the riots happened in 2020, we had Michael Tracy's reporting showing all the riots across the country and the mom-and-pop shops are putting up signs saying, please don't hurt us.

00:35:12.000 We talk about it non-stop.

00:35:14.000 And then, one day, someone on a train, three guys, say, we must stop this man.

00:35:20.000 Maybe because they were like, we've seen too many people die on these train tracks before.

00:35:24.000 And now we've got leftist protesters saying that guy should go to prison for it.

00:35:29.000 And AOC calling it a public murder.

00:35:30.000 I'm like, yo, AOC, I didn't see you call out the public murder on the subway trains.

00:35:35.000 And again, maybe it's ignorance.

00:35:36.000 But the problem I see is, this is why I refer to the left as NPCs or a cult.

00:35:42.000 There's complete ignorance to the problem ongoing, and then a hyper-polarization in a single moment in the wrong direction, which makes the problem worse.

00:35:49.000 You know what's so wild, is the other side feels the exact same way.

00:35:52.000 That's what I'm talking about!

00:35:53.000 Except we're not conservatives!

00:35:54.000 Except we're not conservatives!

00:35:56.000 You see, that's the problem.

00:35:57.000 Is it alright if I jump in with something, alright?

00:35:59.000 Because I've been reluctant.

00:36:00.000 He's a conservative, he's a moon lord, and I'm a traditionalist.

00:36:02.000 I've also, I've been reluctant to interject because I don't want to just dogpile.

00:36:06.000 And so I didn't want to get in on it.

00:36:08.000 Oh no, I'm here for the dogpile!

00:36:10.000 I signed up!

00:36:11.000 I'm sitting in Ye's chair, right? 0.95

00:36:12.000 This is where Ye sat.

00:36:13.000 Did Ye sit here?

00:36:14.000 No, I'm here for the dogpile.

00:36:15.000 Let's do this.

00:36:17.000 I think when you talk about mental health and trying to solve the problem of mental health in this country, that is a deceptively simple way of putting it, right?

00:36:24.000 Every single person in this room would have a very different idea of how that problem should be solved.

00:36:29.000 And I agree with you that right now Republicans aren't doing a whole lot to talk about mental health issues.

00:36:34.000 At least with respect to whatever mental health issue that this specific person is dealing with.

00:36:39.000 But New York is not a Republican place.

00:36:42.000 No, no, no.

00:36:43.000 I totally agree with that, too.

00:36:44.000 But he was saying, why don't Republicans do more to advocate for mental health treatment?

00:36:48.000 My point, however, is that I think the kind of advocacy you'd see from conservatives on how to solve the problem of bad mental health in the United States would be a much different set of policy prescriptions than you would want.

00:37:01.000 So one example of this, right?

00:37:02.000 Well, actually, what Ian said.

00:37:03.000 So what Ian said, so, and there's a number of different directions you could take this in.

00:37:08.000 My fundamental belief is that we live in a culture that encourages man to live in ways that man is not meant to live, and you just see negative health outcomes from that, both mental and physical.

00:37:16.000 However, when you look at traditional psychological definitions of mental illness and how we used to treat it, back in the 1950s, you had about 500,000 people in the United States in insane asylums.

00:37:26.000 By the 1980s, it's about 100,000.

00:37:28.000 Okay, so without even adjusting for the increase in population size, there's a significantly lower number of people who are committed.

00:37:34.000 And part of that is because the requirement to get somebody committed involuntarily to a mental health facility at that time was, they can't take care of themselves.

00:37:42.000 Today, they have to demonstrate that they are a danger to themselves and others first, before they can be committed.

00:37:48.000 Now, is someone not being able to take care of themselves necessarily the perfect indicator of whether they need to be committed to one of these institutions?

00:37:55.000 I have no idea.

00:37:56.000 However, what I do know is once we push the goalpost all the way in the other direction and say they have to demonstrate that they are a significant danger to themselves or others, oftentimes they don't get committed until after they've already hurt somebody.

00:38:06.000 So it's a much more complicated situation than saying we just have to throw more money at this system when we don't even have a solid definition of what good mental health is and also at which point someone should be committed.

00:38:16.000 So I think the important point, going back to what... I agree.

00:38:21.000 This is not a conservative show, but if you are in a cult, you wouldn't know that.

00:38:28.000 You would only hear what the cult says.

00:38:31.000 So here's what I have to respond to that.

00:38:33.000 If an objective person, say an alien, just showed up and looked at your channel, Tim, and went through all the videos, and you were to ask them, poll them, is this person and his views, where would you place them?

00:38:42.000 Most likely, they would say conservative.

00:38:44.000 That's going to be my bet.

00:38:46.000 But more because the guests that come on tend to identify.

00:38:47.000 Not just the guests, but the way they're framed, the thumbnails, the words that you put in red, and whether or not you're supporting or going against one, either the Democrats or the Republicans.

00:38:55.000 But hey, you tell me that you guys don't like the Democrats and you don't like the Republicans.

00:38:59.000 This is not a Republican stream.

00:39:00.000 You don't want to even endorse the Republicans in any way, shape, or form, or vote for them.

00:39:03.000 Big, big no.

00:39:04.000 I don't vote along party lines, personally.

00:39:06.000 Okay, sure.

00:39:07.000 But there's a lot of right-wingers who watch you, right?

00:39:09.000 So you, that's what I mean when I say you do have a voice and you do have an audience of right-wingers who are going to vote at one point or another.

00:39:16.000 30 percent of your audience is right-wing.

00:39:16.000 30 percent.

00:39:17.000 Most of the people who watch this, the largest faction is libertarian.

00:39:21.000 The next largest is, would be considered traditional liberal.

00:39:21.000 Okay.

00:39:24.000 Oh, no, no, I think.

00:39:25.000 But along party lines, who are the Libertarians going to vote for?

00:39:28.000 Not the Libertarian Party.

00:39:30.000 Most likely they're going to vote for whoever.

00:39:31.000 When they come on this show and say abolish the police.

00:39:33.000 One of the two, Republican or Libertarian.

00:39:35.000 Yes, one of the two.

00:39:36.000 So that's why I say, Tim, for the people who watch you who are Republican leaning, why not frame it that way for them so that they can actually start pushing more money into that?

00:39:43.000 That's why I'm here.

00:39:45.000 Basically true, I think, in a lot of ways.

00:39:47.000 That's what Moon Lord does.

00:39:48.000 Here's what I think.

00:39:49.000 I think you're in a cult, right?

00:39:51.000 I think the cult is derived from algorithms on social media, so you only surround yourself with this loud noise.

00:39:58.000 We saw a really good example of this with that Sisson guy, is that his name?

00:40:01.000 Harry Sisson, yeah.

00:40:04.000 Those two guys went on the Tim Dillon podcast and he said, please, no, no, don't clip this.

00:40:08.000 I will lose followers.

00:40:10.000 I can rag on Trump all the time and, like, people still watch the show.

00:40:14.000 Seamus and I can have an argument over me being pro-choice and him being pro-life and people still watch the show.

00:40:19.000 And if I pull up all sides with 3,770 ratings, Tim Pool is a centrist.

00:40:25.000 But you think I'm conservative because you live in a bubble.

00:40:28.000 Right?

00:40:28.000 Because I'm too far left the overton window is too far away is what you're saying?

00:40:31.000 Yes.

00:40:31.000 So like when I go hang out in Washington, D.C.

00:40:34.000 Right.

00:40:34.000 And I do.

00:40:35.000 I go to National Harbor or I go to Baltimore, Maryland.

00:40:37.000 I'm in Baltimore of all places.

00:40:38.000 I don't know why you do that.

00:40:38.000 Washington, D.C.?

00:40:39.000 The people who come up to me and are like, hey man, I'm a big fan are not conservatives.

00:40:43.000 They hate Donald Trump.

00:40:43.000 In fact, I was at a poker table last week and a guy said, I just hate Donald Trump.

00:40:47.000 Man, I can't stand him.

00:40:48.000 I wish somebody else would run, but I can't vote for Joe Biden.

00:40:52.000 I think you're surrounded, we talk about this quite a bit, if all sides has nearly 4,000 people rating me and the end result is centrist, if I'm actively pro universal healthcare, not to the same degree as like Bernie Sanders, I believe in private health insurance, and I'm pro-choice, I am absolutely not a conservative in this country.

00:41:13.000 I've listened to your debates on pro-choice, though.

00:41:14.000 You're pro-choice from a Tim Pool's perspective.

00:41:16.000 I'm pro-choice from a traditional liberal perspective, as traditional liberals have been.

00:41:19.000 But not from what people who would define themselves as pro-choice would say, right?

00:41:22.000 Like, you concentrate very heavily on the ninth month abortions and baby guillotines and stuff like that.

00:41:27.000 What?

00:41:27.000 Yeah, I remember watching you debate on... Baby guillotines?

00:41:30.000 Okay, so baby guillotines is my own personal interpretation and joke of it, but you were talking about how women, how disgusted you are that women may have an abortion in the ninth month, right?

00:41:39.000 A viable baby.

00:41:40.000 Of a viable baby.

00:41:41.000 And I wanted to scream at that time, being like, women who have abortions in the ninth month, they're not doing that because they got bored, or all of a sudden they're like, oh, I don't care anymore. 0.99

00:41:51.000 They do that because it's a fucking tragedy. 0.94

00:41:53.000 Statistically, women who are getting abortions in the ninth month, it's because there's a medical complication that could kill them. 1.00

00:41:58.000 That's why they have to do it.

00:41:58.000 False argument.

00:41:59.000 False argument.

00:42:01.000 That's the real world!

00:42:01.000 I already said viable.

00:42:03.000 Why legalize it?

00:42:04.000 What are you talking about, Tim? 0.98

00:42:05.000 I've already said abortion, a viable fetus is ridiculous. 0.88

00:42:09.000 You know, you know, viable means yes.

00:42:11.000 It means the baby can survive on its own without medical complications.

00:42:14.000 And why legalize abortion of viable fetuses at nine months when the baby could just

00:42:18.000 women are not getting abortions at the ninth month for pleasure or because they want to 1.00

00:42:22.000 suddenly do it for kicks?

00:42:23.000 No, that doesn't happen.

00:42:24.000 Why the tragedy?

00:42:25.000 It's a tragedy because there are medical operations that could kill the mother and they

00:42:30.000 need to get an abortion. 1.00

00:42:31.000 Why legalize?

00:42:32.000 I just told you.

00:42:34.000 So, all right, I'll try to break it down for you.

00:42:36.000 Can the baby survive?

00:42:38.000 Let's talk about a baby.

00:42:40.000 The baby can survive on its own, yes?

00:42:41.000 Sure.

00:42:42.000 Okay.

00:42:43.000 Abortion is defined by Planned Parenthood and the law as terminating the life of the baby.

00:42:48.000 Correct.

00:42:48.000 Why terminate the life of the baby if it can survive on its own?

00:42:52.000 Because it could kill both of them.

00:42:54.000 That's why it is done at that stage.

00:42:56.000 It could kill one or the other, and they have to make the tough decision at that point.

00:43:00.000 So how do you remove the fully formed nine-month baby at that point?

00:43:04.000 Oh, I don't know the science of it.

00:43:06.000 I've never performed that operation before.

00:43:07.000 So shouldn't the law then be, if the baby must be removed, and it is alive and capable of survival, all actions must be taken to preserve the life of the child and the mother?

00:43:18.000 I would say they'd probably choose the mother first, right? 1.00

00:43:20.000 Why?

00:43:20.000 And this is such a strange scenario.

00:43:22.000 How often do you think that this happens and all of a sudden they're like, the baby could have lived, you could have done it, why did you choose the other option?

00:43:28.000 It's like, this is a tragedy of the highest order because they want to have the kid.

00:43:31.000 At nine months pregnant, a woman is on her way to give birth. 0.98

00:43:35.000 So it's like, it's the worst possible fucking thing that could happen to her. 0.94

00:43:37.000 I'm sorry, but that's not, again, I said I didn't want to dogpile, but that's statistically not true. 0.96

00:43:41.000 There have been surveys done on women who had later abortions and For a pretty large sum of them, it's because they were not sure whether the father of the child was willing to commit, and then when they found out he wasn't willing to commit, they would have the abortion.

00:43:55.000 And so, there are different stats you're going to find for different points in pregnancy when it comes all the way along to nine months.

00:44:00.000 I don't have the statistical data on that.

00:44:03.000 However, I do know for later-term abortions, there are reasons other than what is traditionally considered to be a medically necessary reason.

00:44:09.000 For example, some people will say that A negative mental health outcome is a reason to abort a child later in pregnancy.

00:44:17.000 So if the woman is depressed, they will list that as a reason for why the child had to be terminated to save the life of the mother, which is certainly not the case, very obviously.

00:44:26.000 And to the point of what Tim is saying, When we say there's no such thing as a medically necessary abortion, the principle behind that is, if there is an operation which is necessary to save the life of the mother, and then she miscarries the child as a result of that operation which was necessary to save her life, that's not an abortion because nobody's intent was to go in there and end the life of the unborn child.

00:44:49.000 And so if a woman's having complications where she has to deliver early, you deliver the child early, of course. 0.66

00:44:54.000 And if you're at a point in pregnancy where the child isn't viable, that's a horrible tragedy.

00:44:57.000 You still do what you can to save the child, but you can't always save the child, and we understand that.

00:45:02.000 But to go in and rip the child apart to end their life is never something which is medically required, even though an early delivery may be.

00:45:10.000 But are there situations where if the baby is in—this is so harsh— In its complete form, that even trying to induce early pregnancy could kill the mother, so they have to break the baby's body apart so that they can get it out without killing the mother.

00:45:23.000 I've never heard of such a thing.

00:45:25.000 And there are letters, by the way, signed by literally thousands of doctors.

00:45:29.000 Let me ask.

00:45:29.000 Let me just say one thing.

00:45:30.000 So, 88% of abortions are in the first 12 weeks.

00:45:31.000 88.

00:45:31.000 88% of abortions.

00:45:31.000 Less than 1.3% of abortions take place near the 8th or 9th month.

00:45:33.000 How many abortions is that? 1.00

00:45:34.000 are in the first 12 weeks, 88% of abortions.

00:45:37.000 Less than 1.3% of abortions take place near the eighth or ninth month.

00:45:41.000 How many abortions is that? 1.00

00:45:42.000 Is that Goodmarker?

00:45:44.000 I don't know the actual numbers.

00:45:46.000 Okay, but we're talking about less than 1.3 percent.

00:45:49.000 Hold on, 13,000, that's the number of people who die from gun violence in the U.S.

00:45:52.000 each year that aren't suicides.

00:45:53.000 Gentlemen, I am not here to justify abortion when it happens as in it's a good thing. 0.64

00:45:57.000 No, no, no.

00:45:58.000 I don't celebrate it.

00:45:59.000 You're saying it doesn't happen.

00:46:00.000 No, no, no.

00:46:00.000 You're saying it doesn't happen.

00:46:01.000 It happens 13,000 times.

00:46:02.000 I said it's extremely... There is 338 Million Americans!

00:46:05.000 I'm sorry, the numbers are going to be a little daunting.

00:46:08.000 Yes, the numbers will be high.

00:46:09.000 I'm not here to celebrate that.

00:46:10.000 I don't understand your argument then.

00:46:12.000 My argument is that there's a lot of human beings... If 13,000 people die from guns, we have a problem, right?

00:46:17.000 If 13,000 people die from guns, we have a problem.

00:46:19.000 Yes, of course.

00:46:19.000 If 13,000 late-term abortions happen, is that a problem?

00:46:22.000 These are completely different things.

00:46:23.000 How so?

00:46:24.000 Okay, so if someone dies by a gun, have they been shot?

00:46:25.000 Were they killed?

00:46:26.000 Did they kill themselves?

00:46:26.000 Was it a suicide?

00:46:27.000 Was it a gang violence thing?

00:46:29.000 Who knows?

00:46:29.000 That's a good question.

00:46:30.000 Can I clarify?

00:46:30.000 I don't want to argue, I just want to clarify.

00:46:33.000 Hold on, I need to answer this.

00:46:34.000 In the case of late-term abortions, More often than not, when statistics say, and when they are polled, they say the reason that they are giving it is because it's a medical complication that could result in a death of the mother or the child.

00:46:45.000 So let's, I should, can we make the argument then that the use of guns on people are allowed?

00:46:53.000 The use of guns of people to end their lives is allowed. 1.00

00:46:57.000 Murder.

00:46:57.000 You're describing murder.

00:47:00.000 So if Colorado, for instance, passes a law saying there is no medical requirement for an abortion, is it is it wrong to take to kill the baby?

00:47:10.000 You're talking about... You're trying to compare murdering someone with a gun to a woman having to make a medical decision that could basically preserve her life?

00:47:17.000 No, no, no.

00:47:18.000 I said not a medical reason.

00:47:19.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:47:20.000 Should she have the ability to have an abortion for any reason? 1.00

00:47:22.000 Yes.

00:47:22.000 At nine months.

00:47:23.000 At nine months?

00:47:24.000 I would say at nine months, because it only happens, according to the stats, based on complete medical necessity, she has a right to do it. 1.00

00:47:32.000 No, no, no.

00:47:33.000 She should have a right to do it.

00:47:34.000 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:47:35.000 Colorado legalized abortion up to nine months with no medical reason required.

00:47:39.000 Do you agree with that?

00:47:40.000 I agree with that decision, yes.

00:47:41.000 So the baby could survive on its own, and the mother is legally now allowed to just end its life?

00:47:46.000 She has the right, if she wanted to.

00:47:49.000 You're saying, so in Colorado, and I'm... It's not your question, you're allowed to believe that.

00:47:52.000 No, I know, I know, but I'm asking you, because you're the one who brought this up.

00:47:54.000 I don't know what Colorado's specific law says.

00:47:56.000 So if you were saying that in Colorado, women have the ability, at nine months, to have an abortion for any reason.

00:48:02.000 They can just decide the report.

00:48:03.000 Elective, yeah.

00:48:04.000 Okay, I think they should have the right to do that, but the stats show that they're not doing that.

00:48:08.000 But they should have a legal right to do that.

00:48:10.000 Yes, it's their body, it's their choice, of course!

00:48:12.000 So this is what I disagree on.

00:48:13.000 I think if the baby needs to be removed from the woman, there's no reason to kill it. 0.95

00:48:18.000 You know what I mean?

00:48:18.000 Like, you could just c-section and then put up for adoption or something.

00:48:21.000 But I'm telling you that doesn't happen.

00:48:22.000 But it does.

00:48:26.000 You might be able to bring up anecdotes, but the stats don't say that.

00:48:29.000 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:48:31.000 Why allow it to happen?

00:48:32.000 I just don't understand.

00:48:34.000 Are you arguing you oppose it?

00:48:37.000 And you think it's morally wrong, but you think it should be legal?

00:48:40.000 I- I think that women should have the right to decide what they do and have bodily autonomy over their own bodies. 1.00

00:48:43.000 We're not talking about her body.

00:48:44.000 We're talking about- It is her body!

00:48:45.000 Of course it is.

00:48:46.000 At nine months, even if it's still inside her, it's still her body.

00:48:48.000 Even if it's a viable baby, it's still her body.

00:48:49.000 But we're talking about the removal of the baby, yes?

00:48:51.000 The forceful removal of the baby, or...?

00:48:53.000 Forceful.

00:48:54.000 So she chooses to have that.

00:48:55.000 She should have the right.

00:48:56.000 The woman says, the baby must be removed from my body. 0.97

00:48:58.000 Why kill the baby if they're removing it? 0.91

00:49:00.000 I don't think they should do that.

00:49:01.000 I would, I would, if they asked me, if they asked me, Lance, should I do this?

00:49:04.000 I would say no, but she should have a right.

00:49:06.000 Yes, of course.

00:49:07.000 It's her body still.

00:49:08.000 That doesn't stop.

00:49:10.000 So like the woman is pregnant, the baby is viable and capable of surviving on its own.

00:49:14.000 Sure. 0.99

00:49:14.000 And she says before it hits, before it breaches oxygen, kill it. 0.99

00:49:18.000 You think that should be allowed? 0.96

00:49:19.000 This is, again, the baby guillotines.

00:49:21.000 This is why I brought that up.

00:49:22.000 What a weird scenario.

00:49:23.000 This doesn't happen.

00:49:24.000 This is not the real world.

00:49:25.000 But it does.

00:49:26.000 And if the argument is that it doesn't happen enough for you to care, that's fine.

00:49:30.000 You're allowed to believe that.

00:49:31.000 What I don't understand is it seems like your position is a rather shock position where you recognize there is something inherently wrong with taking the life of a baby that could survive on its own, but you're also taking the tribal position of women should be allowed to do it anyway. 0.94

00:49:46.000 No, no, no.

00:49:46.000 If you were to ask me, Tim, hey, Lance, do you think it's a good idea if this woman who's nine months pregnant, suddenly she got bored with the pregnancy, she doesn't want to have it anymore, but the baby's viable?

00:49:54.000 Do you think that's a good thing to do?

00:49:55.000 I would be like, no, of course not.

00:49:56.000 Then why should it be allowed?

00:49:57.000 Because it's still her right.

00:49:58.000 It's still her body.

00:49:59.000 Bodily autonomy doesn't stop at my morality.

00:50:01.000 Tim, it's not my choice.

00:50:03.000 It's not my, yes, but that's not my choice.

00:50:05.000 Why kill it?

00:50:06.000 That's her choice, not mine. 0.88

00:50:07.000 Why kill the baby? 0.96

00:50:09.000 Ask her! 0.99

00:50:10.000 Ask her! 0.98

00:50:10.000 Okay, so my point is simply this. 0.98

00:50:13.000 You don't need to be shocked by it.

00:50:14.000 You're allowed to have that moral position.

00:50:17.000 I think most people in America would prescribe that to be, would ascribe evil to that.

00:50:22.000 Sure.

00:50:23.000 That's the idea.

00:50:24.000 You can ascribe evil to whatever you want.

00:50:25.000 That's up to you.

00:50:26.000 That's your choice. 0.99

00:50:27.000 The idea that you would say, the woman wants the baby removed, and then in the process, instead of letting the baby live, remove it but kill it. 0.99

00:50:35.000 Right? 0.90

00:50:36.000 There's no reason to do that.

00:50:38.000 You can give the baby up for adoption.

00:50:40.000 You can drop the baby off on the doorstep of a post office.

00:50:43.000 I agree with you.

00:50:44.000 I'm not disputing that.

00:50:44.000 So why legalize?

00:50:46.000 Even if it's one.

00:50:48.000 One.

00:50:48.000 Why legalize?

00:50:49.000 You see, this is the craziest thing.

00:50:50.000 Because her autonomy should not be cut off based on your morality.

00:50:53.000 Because you don't think that idea is good.

00:50:55.000 You don't like it.

00:50:55.000 But the baby's been removed from her body.

00:50:56.000 That's not where we should determine it.

00:50:58.000 Well, that's if it was removed from her body and it was still viable, right?

00:51:02.000 And that's where the baby guillotines come in, because I don't think this happens.

00:51:04.000 I don't think women on the ninth month get abortions with viable living children and then be like, I don't want it, kill it. 0.97

00:51:09.000 I don't think that happens.

00:51:11.000 I mean, you don't have to think it happens, but statistically it does, because your entire argument is this only happens for reasons of the health of the mother or the health of the unborn child.

00:51:19.000 I said the statistics show that at the ninth month if a woman is going to have an abortion, it's typically because it's a medical complication that could either endanger her or the child's life.

00:51:28.000 And what I'm saying is there are doctors who will justify that by saying the medical complication is she is depressed.

00:51:33.000 That is literally one of the reasons given in surveys.

00:51:36.000 And another reason that is given is that I know a man who I was going to be with... Okay, okay, but Seamus, I gotta stop you because...

00:51:42.000 This is a nebulous argument that doesn't get anywhere, and I can respect the point that if you try and look this up, you're going to find left-wing sources and right-wing sources that will contradict each other.

00:51:55.000 So my question is strictly on the legality of terminating the life of a child.

00:52:00.000 I can sit here and pull up, oh, hey, here's one.

00:52:02.000 Women abort Down syndrome babies late-term rather frequently.

00:52:06.000 I think that's wrong.

00:52:07.000 I don't think that someone's life is forfeit because they have Down syndrome.

00:52:11.000 But your argument is that they do.

00:52:12.000 No, it's not.

00:52:14.000 That's a strong argument.

00:52:15.000 No, no, no.

00:52:16.000 Your argument is that women have a right to terminate a baby for any reason at any point. 1.00

00:52:19.000 Yes, they should have the bodily autonomy to make that decision.

00:52:21.000 So what I'm saying is, in the circumstance of Down syndrome, I think it is wrong to terminate a baby's life at nine months simply for having Down syndrome, but you would agree she is legally allowed to do so.

00:52:30.000 I think she should be legally allowed to do so.

00:52:32.000 Whether or not I think that's a good idea is irrelevant.

00:52:33.000 Well then, there's the clarification.

00:52:34.000 I think it should be illegal.

00:52:36.000 Okay.

00:52:36.000 I don't- I think- So there are limits to how much bodily autonomy women should have?

00:52:40.000 So, yes, right?

00:52:41.000 Uh, so- Okay, so that's your stance.

00:52:42.000 The pro-choice argument, because you're pro-abortion, right? 0.59

00:52:46.000 Sure.

00:52:46.000 Pro-choice, traditionally in this country, put limits at around, like, 15 to 16 weeks.

00:52:49.000 Meaning...

00:52:51.000 If the baby is dependent upon the body of the mother, then it is the body of the mother and she has final say. 0.66

00:52:57.000 If the baby is viable, it can be removed in a process that ends the pregnancy but doesn't end the life of the baby.

00:53:03.000 That's kind of like the compromise, where the baby gets to live and the woman no longer has to be pregnant. 0.96

00:53:10.000 There seems to be this A moral argument where, well, but it just killed the baby anyway, which doesn't make any logical sense.

00:53:18.000 That's the pro-abortion side. 0.78

00:53:20.000 So if you go back to the 90s, if you go back to safe, legal, rare, etc., if you even look at Tulsi Gabbard in 2020, that's where I'm at.

00:53:26.000 Conservatives are pro-life outright.

00:53:27.000 Seamus would argue abortion in any capacity should be banned entirely. 0.97

00:53:31.000 I'm in the traditional Democrat position, but you see, there is a tribal, amoral, illogical position of just let them kill the baby regardless.

00:53:40.000 I don't see any logic there.

00:53:41.000 I don't see how that makes sense morally or ethically or just mathematically.

00:53:45.000 Right, so you said I'm pro-abortion.

00:53:47.000 What I'm against is forced birth, and I don't think the state should be forcing women to give birth against their will, which is what your position and your position is as well.

00:53:53.000 So I'm against that. 0.99

00:53:55.000 I think that's creepy big government shit. 0.99

00:53:57.000 I don't think they should be forcing them and turning them into these viable wombs against their will. 1.00

00:54:01.000 I completely agree.

00:54:02.000 I'm against forced birth, just like you.

00:54:04.000 Except my difference is that if the baby's at eight months and can survive, they can take the baby out as if they would have an abortion, but not kill it in the process.

00:54:11.000 If it's viable at 8 months?

00:54:13.000 Is it viable?

00:54:13.000 Yes, it is.

00:54:14.000 Yes, it is viable at 8 months.

00:54:15.000 Dude, there have been babies after 20 weeks?

00:54:17.000 Bro, your whole position is that women have a right to kill the baby even if they end the pregnancy and there's no logic there.

00:54:23.000 The logic is that I don't think you agree with forced birth at a point.

00:54:27.000 How?

00:54:28.000 How at 8 months? 0.99

00:54:29.000 At 8 months, Tim Poole thinks forced birth is fucking cool and poggy. 1.00

00:54:32.000 Stop making up stupid bullshit, dude. 1.00

00:54:34.000 Hold on, Brian. 1.00

00:54:35.000 No, no, no, no.

00:54:36.000 Bro, bro, bro, bro.

00:54:39.000 Nonsense statement because I already said I agree with you.

00:54:41.000 A woman should be able to end her pregnancy whenever she wants. 1.00

00:54:44.000 A woman could end her pregnancy whenever she wants. 1.00

00:54:46.000 Say it.

00:54:47.000 Tim Pool said a woman can end her pregnancy whenever she wants.

00:54:50.000 Yeah, but aborting and giving birth are both ending a pregnancy. 1.00

00:54:54.000 You make up something fake.

00:54:56.000 Tim Poole agrees with forced birth is a false statement.

00:54:58.000 You're lying.

00:54:59.000 I have already said I believe that women have a right to terminate their pregnancy to a certain amount of time.

00:55:03.000 At eight months.

00:55:03.000 At eight months is where you draw the line.

00:55:05.000 No, I didn't.

00:55:06.000 Yes, you just said that.

00:55:06.000 The baby is viable, but she shouldn't have the right to be able to terminate it.

00:55:10.000 To kill the baby. 0.99

00:55:11.000 Yes. 1.00

00:55:11.000 I said she can end the pregnancy whenever she wants. 1.00

00:55:13.000 And ending the pregnancy can be giving birth or aborting the baby.

00:55:16.000 Or a c-section that keeps the baby alive.

00:55:18.000 She has to be forced to give birth against her will in a c-section, but the baby is viable and they give it up.

00:55:22.000 So how do they remove the baby at eight months?

00:55:24.000 Either way the baby comes out of her, you're saying that it's more than...

00:55:26.000 So you literally want forced birth. You literally want to force women to give birth at eight months. 0.99

00:55:29.000 birth against her will.

00:55:30.000 So you're saying they should use the tools to rip apart the body and pull that out, whereas

00:55:37.000 I'm saying they should just take the baby out.

00:55:39.000 No, I'm saying she should have the right to decide what happens to her body. 0.99

00:55:41.000 That's it.

00:55:42.000 Okay, but so if either way the child is coming out.

00:55:45.000 You're making this argument about forced birth.

00:55:47.000 Either way, what is in her body is going to be outside of it.

00:55:49.000 The question is, is it okay to shove forceps into the skull of the small person who's inside of her and then tear them apart limb by limb to get them out?

00:55:58.000 Or should we say, no, that's not an acceptable way of delivering a baby.

00:56:01.000 You shouldn't kill that unborn child.

00:56:03.000 How is that for- either way it comes out of her body.

00:56:05.000 Either way the child comes out of her body.

00:56:06.000 It's not as if there's one scenario where the pregnancy magically disappears.

00:56:10.000 And let me add, forced birth is a nonsense politic statement.

00:56:13.000 But yeah, but in your scenario, she's being forced to give birth against her will. 0.81

00:56:17.000 She can't decide.

00:56:17.000 She's already pregnant, dude!

00:56:18.000 I know, but- We're not talking about forcing her to do anything.

00:56:21.000 She's pregnant! 1.00

00:56:21.000 But then endorse that position. 1.00

00:56:23.000 I did!

00:56:24.000 Stick by it!

00:56:24.000 There's no such thing as forced birth.

00:56:26.000 They're saying you can't kill that baby.

00:56:28.000 Let me tell you how fascinating this is.

00:56:29.000 The left is so fervent about legalizing the killing of a baby at nine months that I can sit here and say, I think women should be able to terminate their pregnancy whenever they want, but if the baby is viable, there's no reason to kill it.

00:56:42.000 She has to be forced to give birth and then give the baby up, is what you're saying.

00:56:45.000 Give birth.

00:56:46.000 Define.

00:56:47.000 Yes.

00:56:47.000 Okay, so that is forced birth, right?

00:56:49.000 So she can't decide to terminate it at 8 or 9 months.

00:56:52.000 Define give birth. 1.00

00:56:53.000 You just said at 8 months if the baby is viable.

00:56:55.000 I said 8 months.

00:56:56.000 I'm trying to understand what you're saying by forced birth.

00:56:56.000 Define give birth.

00:56:58.000 What does birth mean?

00:56:59.000 You just said when she's at 8 or 9 months.

00:57:02.000 Okay, so she's at 8 or 9 months.

00:57:03.000 I said viable.

00:57:04.000 Okay, so it's viable.

00:57:05.000 The baby's viable.

00:57:05.000 She should have to give birth to it in some capacity.

00:57:09.000 C-section, whatever.

00:57:10.000 Define birth and I can answer your question.

00:57:12.000 Birth.

00:57:15.000 The removal of a child into the world from a mother's womb. 0.99

00:57:18.000 So how do they do that?

00:57:20.000 The woman pushes the baby out.

00:57:22.000 So then what would you call an abortion at eight months? 0.99

00:57:25.000 An abortion? 0.99

00:57:26.000 Is the woman pushing the baby out? 1.00

00:57:28.000 No, it's most likely a medical procedure done by a doctor.

00:57:30.000 And what is that medical procedure?

00:57:32.000 An abortion.

00:57:33.000 But what is that?

00:57:35.000 What is an abortion? 1.00

00:57:37.000 How is it done?

00:57:38.000 I'm not entirely sure how it's done in 8 months.

00:57:40.000 I know earlier on it's usually done with a series of tools.

00:57:43.000 I don't know how it's done in 8 months.

00:57:45.000 So your moral argument is forced birth.

00:57:47.000 I'm trying to understand what your position is.

00:57:51.000 If you don't know how an abortion is done, then are you in favor of forced birth?

00:57:55.000 Am I in favor of forced birth?

00:57:56.000 No, I'm against forced birth.

00:57:57.000 But you think that women should have to expel the baby, right? 1.00

00:58:00.000 It's completely fine for me not to know the medical procedure of how abortion is done to stand up for the rights of a woman's body.

00:58:05.000 I don't need to know how people perform abortions directly. 0.92

00:58:08.000 I'm not going to lie here.

00:58:09.000 I'm not going to pretend.

00:58:10.000 Removing a baby from a woman's body is birth. 1.00

00:58:13.000 Oh, so you're saying it doesn't count.

00:58:15.000 It's birth of a different nature.

00:58:17.000 I don't think you have a definition, and I'm trying to understand what you mean by forced birth, but if you can't define the removal of the baby in a different way, I don't know what you're saying.

00:58:24.000 Birth!

00:58:24.000 Birth, Tim!

00:58:25.000 Like the birth of a child!

00:58:26.000 So it's a c-section of birth.

00:58:28.000 Uh, sure.

00:58:28.000 Yes, it is a form of extracting a living child that is viable to live in the real world.

00:58:34.000 That's how you define birth?

00:58:35.000 Extracting a living child to live in the real world?

00:58:37.000 No, I would define birth as someone giving birth.

00:58:40.000 They are pushing the baby out of their body.

00:58:41.000 So, right, so I don't think women should be forced to do that, right?

00:58:45.000 You don't think women should be forced to push babies out of their body? 0.99

00:58:47.000 But the baby is in their body, so it's got to come out somehow.

00:58:49.000 So you're going to take it out with a C-section?

00:58:51.000 No, I don't know.

00:58:52.000 But I'm trying to figure out what you mean by this.

00:58:54.000 So that would be forced birth.

00:58:55.000 She's forced to give and make a child, a viable child, live in the real world. 0.99

00:59:00.000 When you're pregnant, the baby's gonna come out of you at some point.

00:59:03.000 That's the point.

00:59:03.000 No matter what happens, the baby is coming out of the woman, right?

00:59:08.000 Yes.

00:59:08.000 So there's no being in favor of that or not.

00:59:10.000 Period.

00:59:10.000 It happens.

00:59:11.000 Yes.

00:59:12.000 Okay, so what's your point?

00:59:13.000 What's my point?

00:59:14.000 Am I in favor of a natural process by which a woman has to have a baby removed from her no matter what anyone says or does?

00:59:20.000 Your point is that at 8 or 9 months, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, Tim.

00:59:23.000 You are wrong.

00:59:24.000 Yes, I'll stop you right there.

00:59:25.000 Because when you keep saying 8 or 9 months, that's not what I said over and over and over again.

00:59:30.000 Viability is after six months.

00:59:31.000 As soon as the baby is viable, then it's okay for the woman, even if she doesn't want to have it anymore for whatever reason, she should have to be forced to have it extracted from her and then live. 1.00

00:59:37.000 Is that correct?

00:59:37.000 baby is not six months. So as soon as the baby is viable, Tim, as soon as the baby is viable,

00:59:41.000 then it's okay for the woman, even if she doesn't want to have it anymore, for whatever reason,

00:59:46.000 she should have to be forced to have it extracted from her and then live. Is that correct? Is that 0.71

00:59:51.000 your position? Well, it's not forcing the woman to have a baby live if the baby's already alive.

00:59:55.000 You see what I'm saying?

00:59:57.000 Here's a compromise.

01:00:00.000 I gotta compromise for you.

01:00:01.000 We'll tell the mother we killed it, but we'll sneak it off and give it to someone else. 0.99

01:00:05.000 Does that work for you?

01:00:06.000 No, because I still think she should have autonomy.

01:00:07.000 She should have the right to do it if she wants to. 0.99

01:00:09.000 She should kill the baby after it's already born? 1.00

01:00:09.000 Of course. 1.00

01:00:12.000 I don't want her to kill a baby. 0.94

01:00:13.000 Then why do you keep saying it?

01:00:15.000 Because I want her to have the ability to choose.

01:00:17.000 That's different.

01:00:18.000 And that is a fundamental part of this.

01:00:20.000 The baby's out of her body, right?

01:00:21.000 Forcibly, in your scenario.

01:00:23.000 No, no, no.

01:00:23.000 Of course.

01:00:23.000 Let's say 24 weeks.

01:00:25.000 Someone goes to the doctor and says, I want this baby out of me.

01:00:28.000 What if she says, I don't want to have this baby? 0.54

01:00:29.000 I don't want to have this baby.

01:00:31.000 Okay.

01:00:31.000 And the doctor says, I will remove it.

01:00:33.000 Okay.

01:00:33.000 Oh, the baby's alive.

01:00:34.000 What do we do?

01:00:35.000 So you force her to give birth? 0.99

01:00:36.000 No, no, no, no.

01:00:37.000 She said, doctor, I'd like an abortion. 1.00

01:00:38.000 He says, you got it.

01:00:39.000 Step right up.

01:00:40.000 No, no, no.

01:00:40.000 He's lying to her?

01:00:41.000 He does the abortion and it fails.

01:00:43.000 An abortion is terminating a pregnancy. 0.95

01:00:45.000 So there's no such thing as a trick abortion.

01:00:48.000 They're called failed abortions. 1.00

01:00:49.000 Failed abortions where doctors like trick women into taking the baby's head? 0.99

01:00:53.000 No, no, no, no, no, no. So when they perform the abortion, as Seamus explained, they stick metal

01:00:58.000 tools into the brain, scramble it up and rip its body parts apart and then pull it out chunk by 0.79

01:01:02.000 chunk. When the babies are smaller, sometimes they pull them out, but the babies don't die.

01:01:06.000 They survive. Right. So my question is, in the instance of a failed abortion, what should be done?

01:01:12.000 A failed abortion being that the child is living.

01:01:16.000 It's outside of the mother.

01:01:18.000 At that point, you cannot kill that child.

01:01:19.000 That would be murder. 0.98

01:01:21.000 Okay.

01:01:22.000 Agreed on that point.

01:01:23.000 Right.

01:01:24.000 Yeah.

01:01:24.000 So then where does the mother's choice come in to kill her?

01:01:28.000 Before that procedure takes place.

01:01:30.000 So... She has a choice to choose what she wants to have done with her body. 1.00

01:01:35.000 If she goes to a doctor and the doctor's like, I'm going to perform an abortion, which the assumption would be that I'm about to terminate the child, but then he just secretly sneaks the child out of there, that's not performing an abortion.

01:01:45.000 You're just...

01:01:46.000 Being deceptive.

01:01:47.000 Yeah, and the doctor should go to prison if they did something like that, in my opinion.

01:01:51.000 I think he should go to prison if he performed an abortion.

01:01:54.000 Snap! 0.99

01:01:55.000 I heard that.

01:01:55.000 Not surprised.

01:01:56.000 Opposite perspective.

01:01:56.000 So there's also something that none of us know, because I don't think any of us are medical doctors, the difference on the physiology of the female body giving a nine-month abortion, having that happen, or the actual birthing process, whether by C-section or natural birth, It might have vastly different consequences on the female body, so that's something to take into account.

01:02:16.000 Oh, so wait, wait, wait!

01:02:16.000 Remember the Born Alive Act?

01:02:18.000 Yes.

01:02:19.000 That was a Republican position, wasn't it?

01:02:21.000 What was that?

01:02:22.000 Yeah, so there have been a couple of different Born Alive Acts in different years, but what they basically say is that if the abortion fails, it is not legal to kill the child.

01:02:34.000 Wasn't that Republicans were trying to pass a law?

01:02:36.000 The Republicans were trying to pass that.

01:02:37.000 That was one of the only things Obama voted on in the Senate.

01:02:40.000 He voted against it.

01:02:42.000 Obama voted against it?

01:02:43.000 Against it, yes.

01:02:43.000 But you would be in favor of that?

01:02:45.000 In favor of what?

01:02:46.000 The Born Alive Act.

01:02:47.000 I'm not completely familiar with it, so I don't have to read about it first.

01:02:49.000 If an infant is born alive after an attempt at abortion, it has the same protection of law and degree as a newborn.

01:02:56.000 Yeah, I would be okay with that, because at that point it's a human.

01:02:59.000 If you're killing a person that is alive, outside of a womb, then that's murder, right? 0.58

01:03:03.000 Yeah, I agree.

01:03:04.000 Can I ask you, this is not a gotcha, right?

01:03:06.000 We agree on that, that's great.

01:03:07.000 I want to ask in good faith.

01:03:08.000 Yeah, of course.

01:03:09.000 You believe that the moment after the child is outside of the birth canal, that they are now endowed with human rights?

01:03:15.000 However, when they are inside of the mother, literally anything you do to them is acceptable because they're inside of the mother.

01:03:20.000 Oh, no.

01:03:20.000 I don't think anything is acceptable, but I think the mother should still have the choice, ultimate authority over what happens to her body.

01:03:26.000 But there's a child inside of her body and not her.

01:03:29.000 What about meth?

01:03:31.000 Like, should she be allowed to do meth?

01:03:33.000 Yeah.

01:03:34.000 I think if someone is doing meth while they're pregnant, that it is completely acceptable for something like I don't know what the name of the service is in the United States.

01:03:43.000 Child services?

01:03:45.000 It's her body, though. 0.66

01:03:47.000 Yeah, it's her body. 0.89

01:03:48.000 If she wants to do meth, what's the big deal? 0.97

01:03:51.000 The big deal is that she's intentionally trying to kill a child. 1.00

01:03:55.000 Hold on there a minute. 0.53

01:03:56.000 Yeah, I see where we're going.

01:03:57.000 I don't understand what you're saying.

01:03:59.000 It's her body. 0.98

01:04:00.000 If she wants to do meth, what's the problem? 0.55

01:04:03.000 Well, first off, doing meth is illegal, period.

01:04:05.000 Doesn't matter if you're doing it with a child or without a child.

01:04:07.000 Not an organ.

01:04:08.000 Methylenedioxy, MDMA, it's a type of meth.

01:04:10.000 Maybe it's alcohol then.

01:04:11.000 Not crystal meth.

01:04:12.000 Crystal meth is legal in Oregon?

01:04:14.000 No, not crystal.

01:04:15.000 Hold on a second! 0.93

01:04:16.000 MDMA is a kind of meth.

01:04:17.000 Methylenedioxy, methamphetamine is ecstasy.

01:04:20.000 That's a kind of meth.

01:04:21.000 There's also crystal meth, which is not legal.

01:04:23.000 MDMA is legal in some places for therapy sessions.

01:04:25.000 I don't know if it's legal for pregnant women. 1.00

01:04:27.000 Yes, it is.

01:04:28.000 Is it for pregnant women? 0.99

01:04:29.000 Oregon decriminalized possession in 2021.

01:04:31.000 Wow, you're right!

01:04:32.000 But I don't know if that's- But I'm just- I- Okay, okay, dude.

01:04:34.000 So like- D- Sorry, decriminalizing possession is different than legalizing crystal meth.

01:04:37.000 You know those two things are completely different, right?

01:04:39.000 Uhhh... Well, it's a question of whether you can press charges.

01:04:41.000 Wait, wait, wait, hold on.

01:04:43.000 Yeah.

01:04:44.000 What?

01:04:44.000 So when you decriminalize a small amount of drugs, that means if you're caught with that drugs by a cop, that means if you're arrested, you cannot be charged for one gram, two grams, whatever that is.

01:04:53.000 That's what legalizing is.

01:04:54.000 No, this is decriminalization, not legalization.

01:04:56.000 We never said legalization.

01:04:57.000 Legalization is a semantic term, it doesn't mean anything.

01:04:59.000 Yes, it means that there's no longer a prohibition on that product.

01:05:03.000 Okay, so if a woman does meth, she's legally allowed to have it, right? 1.00

01:05:08.000 Is she legally allowed to do it or possess it?

01:05:10.000 I mean, what's the difference?

01:05:12.000 Well, two very different things.

01:05:13.000 You can be legally allowed to possess drugs and not be legally allowed to take drugs, for example.

01:05:17.000 Alcohol.

01:05:18.000 So she does alcohol. 1.00

01:05:19.000 Can a woman chug a fifth of vodka while pregnant? 1.00

01:05:22.000 Uh, yeah, she can legally.

01:05:23.000 But do you think she has a right to do so?

01:05:25.000 I think she has a right to do, yes, she has a right to do it. 0.86

01:05:28.000 I don't agree with it.

01:05:29.000 Okay.

01:05:29.000 Yeah.

01:05:30.000 And, and, and, and heroin?

01:05:31.000 Uh, it's illegal.

01:05:33.000 I, I actually, I don't think heroin's illegal.

01:05:34.000 I think heroin actually is, was legalized.

01:05:36.000 I think it's controlled, but I think that one specifically was oxycodone and other drugs.

01:05:40.000 So, She has a right to do it.

01:05:44.000 Whether or not I agree with her doing it, that's completely different.

01:05:46.000 I don't agree with a woman who would have an elective abortion at nine months. 1.00

01:05:49.000 I think that is like, why the fuck would you have done that? 0.99

01:05:52.000 But I think she has the right to do it, right? 0.98

01:05:54.000 But do you think it's ethical that she, like... Oh, I don't think it's ethical.

01:05:57.000 No, of course not.

01:05:58.000 Because some things are made legal that are unethical, in my opinion, and should those be made illegal?

01:06:04.000 I mean, that's a very broad question, right?

01:06:07.000 I'm sorry, personal use of methamphetamine is allowed.

01:06:09.000 It's a civil citation, like a traffic ticket, not a criminal citation.

01:06:13.000 So allowed maybe is hyperbolic.

01:06:15.000 It is a civil citation to be caught using methamphetamine in Oregon.

01:06:19.000 You get a ticket for it, but no crime.

01:06:22.000 So I just looked up the Born Alive Act, by the way.

01:06:23.000 It says, this bill is deliberately misleading and offensive to pregnant people and doctors and nurses who provide their care.

01:06:28.000 It is another attempt by anti-abortion politicians to spread misinformation as a means to get a warped political end, to ban safe and legal abortion.

01:06:35.000 It's an entry point to try and make abortion illegal. 1.00

01:06:37.000 Where did you read this?

01:06:39.000 No, no, no, no, no, no.

01:06:40.000 I don't care.

01:06:41.000 I mean, who cares about the Born Alive Act? 0.78

01:06:44.000 The question was, if an abortion happens, but the baby survives, can you kill it? 0.69

01:06:48.000 And Lance already said no.

01:06:49.000 So we're done with that.

01:06:51.000 So he would.

01:06:51.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:52.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:06:52.000 So any other political arguments, anyone left, right, or otherwise trying to change that, no no no, it's irrelevant.

01:06:57.000 Once the baby's born, it's a baby.

01:07:00.000 It has the same rights as every other human at that point, right?

01:07:02.000 It's an American.

01:07:03.000 This is an interesting, I think this falls in line with the idea of anarcho-tyranny that we were talking about.

01:07:08.000 My view of the modern left is that their positions are nothing but chaos.

01:07:12.000 There's no logical pathway towards preserving life, improving people's lives.

01:07:17.000 It seems to be only... It's like yin-yang, right?

01:07:21.000 There's one side that's talking about long-term planning, logical thinking, and improving the world, and one side that takes the inverse position no matter what.

01:07:29.000 For instance, 25 people push in front of a subway, nobody bats an eye.

01:07:32.000 One guy, three guys try to subdue a man and now they want prison.

01:07:36.000 That's like a weird inversion of what the law is supposed to do.

01:07:38.000 The law should stop the people who are pushing people on the trains and protect the people on the train who are being victimized.

01:07:45.000 But the left's position is the inverse of it, right?

01:07:49.000 Are you asking me for, like, an affirmation of that?

01:07:51.000 Because if you ask me... No, no, I'm just saying, like, that's my view.

01:07:54.000 So when you say the left's idea are all chaos, I mean, if you really wanted to boil down what the left is fighting for, especially myself, it's expanding freedom.

01:08:02.000 I believe in freedom.

01:08:03.000 I love freedom.

01:08:04.000 I'm sure everyone here likes freedom too, right?

01:08:05.000 You're all about freedom.

01:08:06.000 How do you define freedom exactly?

01:08:08.000 So for me, I believe in a democratic process where we don't have tyrants, we don't have dictators, we don't have kings or queens.

01:08:14.000 We have the ability as a democracy to be able to vote for who we work for, or sorry, who our leaders are, right?

01:08:20.000 Like we want to be able to vote for our president, our prime minister.

01:08:22.000 I believe in that fundamentally.

01:08:24.000 But my other thing is I want to expand that freedom into the workplace because we spend about eight hours a day every single day in our works or jobs.

01:08:30.000 I want to expand freedom there so people who work at their jobs for eight hours a day have the ability to vote for things in their lives, better health care, better working conditions, whether or not their boss is corrupt and stealing from all of them.

01:08:40.000 I want to expand that.

01:08:41.000 I want to expand freedom into other parts of life.

01:08:43.000 That's a fundamental belief for me.

01:08:45.000 So what do you mean by stealing from them?

01:08:47.000 Stealing wages, for example.

01:08:49.000 Like actually shorting someone's check.

01:08:51.000 So the largest form of theft in America right now is wage theft.

01:08:54.000 That happened to me.

01:08:55.000 I sued.

01:08:56.000 I went to the National Labor Board and we won.

01:08:57.000 How does it happen?

01:08:58.000 As you should.

01:08:59.000 So there's a ton of ways.

01:09:00.000 Not paying overtime.

01:09:01.000 Bosses simply just garnishing checks or garnishing wages, stealing tips or thinking that tips are justification to pay them lower salaries and stuff like that.

01:09:09.000 All of it. 1.00

01:09:09.000 Bullshit. 1.00

01:09:10.000 And when you look at theft every single, like you look at the stats, right? 1.00

01:09:13.000 Cars being stolen, jewelry, all that.

01:09:15.000 Wage theft.

01:09:17.000 I got a story for you.

01:09:21.000 So, uh, I worked at a company.

01:09:23.000 I get a paycheck.

01:09:24.000 I'm good at math and stuff.

01:09:25.000 And so I look at it and I'm like, Hey, there's a problem with my paycheck.

01:09:28.000 And they go, no, it's good.

01:09:29.000 I'm like, no, it isn't.

01:09:29.000 There's a problem with my paycheck.

01:09:30.000 Fix it.

01:09:31.000 And I, I very quickly was like $67 missing.

01:09:34.000 I want it fixed.

01:09:35.000 I want to fix now.

01:09:36.000 And they went, uh, give us a few minutes.

01:09:37.000 Came back 15 minutes later, handed me a check.

01:09:39.000 I looked at it and said, are you joking?

01:09:41.000 And they were like, huh?

01:09:42.000 And I was like, this is wrong. 0.88

01:09:43.000 I'm not an idiot.

01:09:44.000 Fix my paycheck. 0.84

01:09:46.000 Went to a couple other employees.

01:09:48.000 They said, I said, let me see your paychecks.

01:09:50.000 I looked and I went, come with me.

01:09:52.000 Walked right to the National Labor Board in Chicago and said, this is what they did.

01:09:56.000 They took our statements.

01:09:58.000 We went to the company and we told them we were going to form a union because of what they had done.

01:10:02.000 They fired us on the spot for doing it.

01:10:04.000 We sued them.

01:10:05.000 And then I'll give you air quotes in saying we won.

01:10:09.000 What actually happened was after six months of being out of work, They said, you can get retro pay, which will be $7,000 each, or we can go to fight and then I'll give you your job back.

01:10:20.000 And I'm like, if they give us our job back, they're going to retaliate against us.

01:10:24.000 No, no, that's illegal.

01:10:24.000 And I was like, oh, come on.

01:10:26.000 So we won the fight, but it really means they were able to fire us to stop us from forming a union.

01:10:31.000 So what would be a good example of expanding?

01:10:33.000 Sorry, Seamus.

01:10:34.000 I just want to make the point.

01:10:34.000 Oh, no, no.

01:10:36.000 I'm not, I haven't seen the stats on wage theft.

01:10:40.000 Causing more in losses than all other forms of theft combined.

01:10:43.000 I'll just have to take your word for that, and I'm willing to grant that for the sake of this discussion.

01:10:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:10:47.000 I think that's true.

01:10:48.000 Like I said, I'm willing to grant it if that is the case, and at the very least for the sake of argument.

01:10:53.000 I certainly don't agree in involuntarily democratizing all workplaces.

01:10:58.000 That's probably a much longer, interesting economic discussion.

01:11:01.000 Happy to engage in it with you guys, too, and I suspect we would all have different views on it.

01:11:05.000 I don't know if you want to go to other issues, or if you need to talk about that, because I would like to talk about that.

01:11:09.000 Budweiser opens that door.

01:11:10.000 you're gonna move to Budweiser? I do want to talk about LGBT rights.

01:11:13.000 And Budweiser opens that door. Ladies and gentlemen, the Anheuser-Busch CEO has finally disavowed the Dylan Mulvaney

01:11:20.000 ad in private to investors, though he's not made a public

01:11:23.000 statement.

01:11:24.000 Sales are down.

01:11:26.000 They're going to be giving out free cases of beer to distributors, and they've vowed to spend millions of dollars in marketing.

01:11:32.000 But the boycott is particularly effective, I would say.

01:11:35.000 And there's videos now coming out of people at sporting events where the Bud Light is just behind the counter, totally full, and everyone's buying other brands.

01:11:43.000 So did Ian and Seamus both just leave at the same time?

01:11:46.000 Yeah, I don't know where they went, but they did just both leave.

01:11:49.000 So yeah, let's jump into this.

01:11:51.000 What are your thoughts on the Budweiser thing?

01:11:53.000 My thoughts are keep going.

01:11:55.000 You're doing awesome.

01:11:56.000 All of you.

01:11:57.000 I mean this. 1.00

01:11:57.000 To every single person protesting Bud Light, fuck yes. 1.00

01:11:59.000 I am so here for this. 1.00

01:12:00.000 It's fucking amazing. 0.99

01:12:02.000 Right on. 0.99

01:12:03.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:12:04.000 Budweiser sucks. 1.00

01:12:05.000 Anheuser-Busch sucks. 1.00

01:12:06.000 It's a massive multinational corporation. 1.00

01:12:08.000 They're super anti-LGBTQ+, so it's been beautiful to see. 1.00

01:12:11.000 I love it.

01:12:12.000 Oh, they donate so much to right-wing Republicans who push anti-LGBTQ laws, so Anheuser-Busch getting taken down.

01:12:17.000 Oh man, I'm so here for it.

01:12:19.000 Me too.

01:12:19.000 Keep going.

01:12:19.000 Absolutely.

01:12:20.000 Yeah, they think that they can pay off Republicans, they can hire GOP aides, and that is going to be satisfactory for their customers who are upset with them as a brand.

01:12:30.000 So clearly what we can see, where I think we agree, is that Anheuser-Busch is a faceless corporation with no real values that is willing to spit in the faces of the little guy if it earns him a profit. 0.91

01:12:40.000 They're a trash company and nobody should buy their products. 0.93

01:12:43.000 The left and the right both agree. 0.99

01:12:44.000 Hear, hear.

01:12:44.000 Unity for once.

01:12:45.000 I hope they fail.

01:12:46.000 Same thing with Disney.

01:12:47.000 Keep going after Disney.

01:12:48.000 Absolutely.

01:12:49.000 Take Disney down.

01:12:50.000 I'm all for the right wing taking on Disney.

01:12:52.000 All for the right wing taking on Anheuser-Busch.

01:12:53.000 Yes, of course. 1.00

01:12:54.000 These are terrible fucking corporations. 1.00

01:12:56.000 I'm all here for it. 1.00

01:12:57.000 By the way, the Daily Mail is like the number one source on the show, right?

01:13:00.000 Like every single time you pulled it up.

01:13:01.000 Because that same site that you showed me, All Sides Media Bias, it has the Daily Mail on right wing.

01:13:06.000 And I know that you yourself, when you pulled it up.

01:13:08.000 Yeah, they're actually fantastic.

01:13:09.000 But if you use them as a primary source, you understand why I'd say that, like... We don't use them as a primary source.

01:13:14.000 What happens is when we pull up stories, I'll go to, like, CNN, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Fox News, ABC, and they'll each have, like, 300 words.

01:13:27.000 And then you go to the Daily Mail after doing a search on key elements of the story and the Daily Mail will have like seven different versions of all breaking down different components.

01:13:36.000 Like if you scroll down the Daily Mail, they often do these special sections where they have entirely different stories within the story providing more context.

01:13:44.000 Like for instance, this story from the Daily Mail not only talks about the current story with the CEO, but it even goes All the way into all of the context, going back to the commercial that was released, the sale drop at 6% in the first week, to the video, it like covers literally everything, even has a photo of the VP and her husband, how in-depth this story is.

01:14:04.000 So it's like if I'm gonna pull up a single article, I can pull up five ABC, CBS, New York Times, or I can just pull up this one that has seemingly everything in it, including Kid Rock, including John Rich, including Bud Light being poured into a dumpster.

01:14:16.000 So it's a massive aggregator. 0.99

01:14:19.000 But honestly, I have no problem with y'all going after fucking Bud Light. 1.00

01:14:23.000 Have a time, go nuts. 0.99

01:14:25.000 I have a really big problem with what I feel on this show is a lot of anti-trans hysteria and fear mongering that takes place. 0.90

01:14:32.000 You want to open that book?

01:14:33.000 I have that book at home.

01:14:34.000 We can talk about that in a second.

01:14:35.000 And I'm totally comfortable talking about that book.

01:14:37.000 I've read it.

01:14:39.000 Should it be in schools?

01:14:40.000 I want to talk to you about the trans issue, though.

01:14:42.000 Right, and that's why I ask about the book, because it opens the door.

01:14:44.000 We can get to the books and the schools and the curriculums and everything that Florida's taken away, but you profess to be kind of like fact-based, science-based, right?

01:14:52.000 Yeah.

01:14:53.000 I've noticed you want to pull up stats and figures and stuff like that.

01:14:55.000 Of course.

01:14:56.000 Why is it that you push propaganda when it comes to trans people?

01:14:59.000 Like what?

01:15:00.000 That is so far beyond the pale.

01:15:02.000 Okay, let's start with gender-affirming care. 0.91

01:15:02.000 Like what? 0.91

01:15:05.000 Gender affirming care, you're very, very against.

01:15:07.000 I've heard you call it the mutilized, like, mutilation.

01:15:10.000 I don't call it mutilation.

01:15:11.000 I've never said that.

01:15:12.000 That's what you say on your show.

01:15:13.000 No, I don't.

01:15:13.000 I don't know if he does.

01:15:14.000 I call it mutilated children. 0.97

01:15:15.000 I call it child sex change.

01:15:17.000 When you were talking about Dwayne Wade moving his family... Someone in the crowd said, why are you mutilating your son?

01:15:23.000 That was a quote from someone else.

01:15:24.000 I didn't say that.

01:15:25.000 I call it... But then you made... And I've explicitly said, I don't take the right agitator approach of calling it mutilation because that's not effective in having a conversation.

01:15:34.000 I will plainly call it a child sex change as what it is.

01:15:37.000 I'm not going to call it gender affirming or mutilation because I don't think those things accurately explain what it is.

01:15:42.000 Okay, so when it comes to gender affirming care, Zero to about- Are you talking about child sex change? 0.52

01:15:47.000 No, I'm talking about gender-affirming care.

01:15:49.000 Zero to about 10 years- You gotta define it.

01:15:50.000 The answer is yes.

01:15:51.000 You gotta define it, okay?

01:15:52.000 Because if you're talking about something different, tell us what you're talking about.

01:15:55.000 All right, so, if someone is trans, and they are young, and until they are about 10 years old, before they go through puberty, gender-affirming care would be in the form of you using different pronouns, preferred pronouns, and allowing them to dress differently.

01:16:08.000 Yeah, I don't care about that.

01:16:09.000 Do you have a problem with that?

01:16:10.000 Does anyone here?

01:16:10.000 Yes, I do.

01:16:11.000 Okay, so both of you don't.

01:16:11.000 I don't.

01:16:13.000 Okay, so do you accept that there is no surgery being performed on children at that age, from 0 to about 10?

01:16:13.000 Right.

01:16:18.000 There's nothing, there's no hormone blockers, there's no puberty blockers?

01:16:20.000 There is hormone blockers.

01:16:22.000 I don't think surgery is happening on kids under 12.

01:16:26.000 So hormone blockers aren't given to children until they go through puberty.

01:16:29.000 That's not true.

01:16:30.000 We actually pulled this up with Destiny.

01:16:31.000 He actually called me out.

01:16:33.000 I was wrong about a stat.

01:16:34.000 What we found was 47,000 Cross-sex hormones, I think it was something like 17,000 puberty blockers and like 2,000 double mastectomies for girls after the age of 13 or whatever, but... So that doesn't apply to anything I just said?

01:16:50.000 Puberty blockers were pre-teen.

01:16:52.000 Puberty blockers... Yes, puberty blockers are given to someone... Because they have to give them the puberty blockers before puberty starts.

01:16:57.000 Yes, of course.

01:16:57.000 Right.

01:16:58.000 So you...

01:16:59.000 Okay, so you're just reaffirming what I just said.

01:17:01.000 From zero to ten, you're about to go through puberty.

01:17:03.000 Gender affirming care only comes in the form of using different pronouns, using different names, allowing them to dress differently, and that's it. 0.94

01:17:09.000 And you don't have a problem with that.

01:17:10.000 Wait, Lupron too?

01:17:11.000 Okay, so we'll get to Lupron, but up to that point, you don't have a problem with any of this yet, right?

01:17:15.000 I'm saying like... And you agree that there is no surgery being performed on children at that age.

01:17:21.000 Zero to ten.

01:17:22.000 Let me just start from the beginning so I can make sure I'm getting what you're saying right.

01:17:25.000 Yeah.

01:17:26.000 I don't care if parents call their kids names or whatever.

01:17:30.000 I care about medical or surgical intervention.

01:17:32.000 Okay.

01:17:33.000 So that doesn't happen until about the age of about 16.

01:17:36.000 That's the average age for... But you're wrong.

01:17:39.000 Okay.

01:17:39.000 And look, we had Destiny on the show.

01:17:41.000 We went into great detail about it.

01:17:43.000 There are girls who are 13 who are getting this done.

01:17:45.000 And there was a study, actually it was Canadian, I believe, 12 to 17.

01:17:49.000 They had several hundred surgeries performed.

01:17:51.000 Okay, so again, I said the average age, but if you want to say that there are people who get this at 12, that could be the case.

01:17:57.000 Let's start with puberty blockers, Tim.

01:18:00.000 Lupron.

01:18:00.000 You both have a big problem with lupron?

01:18:02.000 I don't know a lot about it, but I consider it a medical treatment.

01:18:06.000 Yeah, yeah, we shouldn't be giving lupron to kids.

01:18:08.000 So you don't think you should give Lupron to kids?

01:18:10.000 Why don't you want Lupron being given to trans kids? 1.00

01:18:14.000 Because it's a puberty blocker that inhibits the natural function and development of their body.

01:18:19.000 And more importantly, I think my view is built upon what we've seen out of Europe already, right?

01:18:25.000 So earlier on, maybe a few years ago, I was more agnostic on the issue until Sweden, Denmark, Finland abandoned this and the Tavistock Center got shut down.

01:18:33.000 And the data they released said this actually caused more harm than good.

01:18:36.000 And then I was like, well, okay, hey, how about that?

01:18:39.000 And for some reason in the United States, they're still hell-bent on moving forward with what we can already see from, you know, better countries with better healthcare systems saying no to this, right?

01:18:46.000 Okay, so I can address those individually because I have the explanation as to why that happened.

01:18:51.000 When it comes to Lupron, 0 to 10 is about the age where gender-affirming care only comes in the form of different names, pronouns, stuff like that.

01:18:58.000 We can all agree that's completely fine.

01:19:00.000 But we can't.

01:19:00.000 I disagree.

01:19:02.000 You three can agree, but I don't.

01:19:04.000 Fine, okay, fine. But it's their show, so I just want to concentrate on it.

01:19:07.000 And I'm, my position is more just like, I don't know, man, like social therapy stuff.

01:19:12.000 They say that after puberty, desistance rates are between 60, 65 and like 92%.

01:19:18.000 Okay, so that's completely false. I'll get to that.

01:19:20.000 We have to do this.

01:19:21.000 Come on, bro.

01:19:22.000 We have to do this piece by piece first.

01:19:24.000 Oh, let's, let's, let's get, let's get through.

01:19:24.000 Okay.

01:19:26.000 Hey, I just, I just proved you're wrong.

01:19:28.000 Uh, studies show, uh, 10, 10 follow-up studies found assistance of 61 to 98%.

01:19:32.000 Yeah.

01:19:33.000 Can you, can you click on the Wikipedia article?

01:19:37.000 Detransition topics?

01:19:38.000 Oh, you're missing the mic.

01:19:39.000 Can't hear you.

01:19:39.000 Oh, sorry.

01:19:41.000 What are the studies?

01:19:42.000 What are we talking about?

01:19:42.000 I would like to know if you are taking these studies specifically.

01:19:45.000 Well, because I have each one of them written down here, and I'm quite curious.

01:19:48.000 Is the Drummond study one of them?

01:19:50.000 Is the Wallin study?

01:19:50.000 Is Stensma, the Swedish study, a part of this?

01:19:53.000 The 2011 study?

01:19:55.000 Probably, I don't know.

01:19:56.000 Well, we should know.

01:19:57.000 This is incredibly important for what we're talking about.

01:19:58.000 No, it's not.

01:19:59.000 This is 2018.

01:20:00.000 This is Gender Dysphoria in Adolescents' Current Perspectives in the National Library of Medicine.

01:20:05.000 OK, scroll down to the conclusion of this one.

01:20:06.000 Do you want to get the mic again?

01:20:08.000 Oh, so you can carry it around.

01:20:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:20:10.000 Move it.

01:20:11.000 I gotta get used to this.

01:20:12.000 Yeah, dawg.

01:20:14.000 No, scroll down to the conclusion of the study.

01:20:16.000 Well, yeah, I mean, I want to at least skim some of what the numbers and references are.

01:20:22.000 While you're skimming, when I think of a little kid being like, a little boy being like, I'm a girl!

01:20:27.000 The parent, I would hope that the parent would be like, you can pretend to be whatever you want, you can be an actor, you can play a girl, but I get afraid when a mom's like, he said he's a girl!

01:20:36.000 That means he's trans!

01:20:38.000 Right.

01:20:38.000 So, for this, It's not a process.

01:20:41.000 It doesn't exist in which someone can say, hey, I'm a boy, I'm a girl, and then they go into a doctor's office and like, well, take some Lupron.

01:20:47.000 It's, you do years and years of consultation between a doctor and between like a therapist and between the patient itself.

01:20:54.000 I'm just going to read this.

01:20:55.000 Sure, of course.

01:20:56.000 Adolescence is a crucial time for identity and psychosexual development in young people with gender identity concerns.

01:21:01.000 The outcomes of GDC have been discussed in terms of its persistence and desistance.

01:21:06.000 For most children with GDC, whether GD will persist or desist will probably be determined between the ages of 10 and 13 years, although some may need more time.

01:21:14.000 Evidence from the 10 available prospective follow-up studies from childhood to adolescence, reviewed in the study by Ristori and Steensma, indicate that for around 80- Oh, it is Steensma.

01:21:22.000 I was right.

01:21:22.000 I asked if this was Steensma.

01:21:24.000 Okay.

01:21:25.000 About 80% of children who meet the criteria for GDC.

01:21:28.000 Right.

01:21:28.000 But you said 2011.

01:21:29.000 Oh, so there's multiple Steensma studies they've actually built upon each other.

01:21:33.000 And the problem with the Steensma study, unfortunately, is that they actually characterized people who were not trans in that study.

01:21:39.000 They didn't compare people who were trans to people who were trans and then detransitioned.

01:21:43.000 They compared people in the general population.

01:21:45.000 What's your source for that?

01:21:47.000 The actual author of the study has come out since and said that the study... What can I pull up to confirm that?

01:21:54.000 Because look, I pulled up a study that said a thing, you've made a counterclaim, I will pull it up.

01:21:58.000 No, no, absolutely.

01:21:59.000 Yeah.

01:22:00.000 Okay, so, go to... Because I don't know who Steensma is.

01:22:03.000 Okay, so, well, Steensma, and the problem, I'll say one more thing because I had this written down, 45.3% of the people did not reapply for treatment, they counted that as people who were detransitioning, when they weren't in fact doing that.

01:22:13.000 We're literally talking about desistance.

01:22:14.000 Wait, can I ask you something?

01:22:14.000 Right.

01:22:15.000 Yes, yes, go on.

01:22:16.000 Wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:22:17.000 He asked for the source.

01:22:18.000 Let's do things in order.

01:22:19.000 Trans, trans, trans advocate.

01:22:20.000 I need to respond to what you just said right now.

01:22:21.000 That last point is kind of important to respond to.

01:22:23.000 We're literally talking about desistance.

01:22:25.000 Right.

01:22:26.000 If they're including people who desisted, you'd have to to get the number of those who

01:22:29.000 desisted.

01:22:30.000 No, no, no.

01:22:31.000 They included people who did not reapply for treatment.

01:22:32.000 They counted that as someone who was desisting.

01:22:34.000 That's just someone who didn't show up again.

01:22:36.000 That's literal desistance.

01:22:39.000 I don't see an issue with that.

01:22:41.000 Not whatsoever, Tim.

01:22:42.000 That is someone who has decided they just don't want to go talk to that doctor or experience things with that doctor.

01:22:45.000 They could have gone off to a different doctor, they could have done something else, but that is not someone who has verifiably said, I was trans, I'm no longer trans.

01:22:52.000 That's just people who did not show up.

01:22:53.000 Let me pull up your thing.

01:22:54.000 Okay, so go to transadvocate.com slash- I'm not going to- I need a study or something, not an advocacy website.

01:23:00.000 I pulled up a scientific study for you, I'm not pulling up a non-profit advocacy group.

01:23:04.000 So this is an interview with the person who did the study in this article.

01:23:08.000 I have pulled up a scientific study for you, you have challenged it. 0.98

01:23:11.000 And I'm challenging you with the person who did the fucking study. 0.84

01:23:14.000 You're telling me to pull up an advocacy website which is not on par with a scientific study. 0.98

01:23:18.000 But it's featuring the person who did the scientific study.

01:23:20.000 Is there a counter-study saying this is not correct?

01:23:22.000 Okay.

01:23:22.000 Yes.

01:23:23.000 An overwhelmed amount.

01:23:24.000 Oh, okay, sure.

01:23:25.000 Let me pull that up.

01:23:26.000 Okay.

01:23:28.000 Look, if I pull up the NIH, and then you say go to transadvocate.com, you'll understand why I'm not willing to do that.

01:23:33.000 Cool.

01:23:33.000 Let's do this.

01:23:34.000 Cornell University.

01:23:35.000 I'm not going to Breitbart for my source on desistance, okay?

01:23:38.000 Sounds good.

01:23:38.000 Cornell University did a meta-study.

01:23:41.000 Let me, what is it?

01:23:42.000 Okay, Cornell University did a meta-study on 55 different studies.

01:23:45.000 Can I pull it up?

01:23:45.000 Yeah, just start looking up Cornell University meta-study on detransition.

01:23:49.000 Cornell University did a meta-study on 55 different studies on detransitioning.

01:23:53.000 Of those 55, they found 52 of the studies showed that people Detransitioned at a rate of less than 4%.

01:24:01.000 And of those people who did it, the reason they detransitioned was social stigma.

01:24:06.000 That's 52 of the 55.

01:24:08.000 The other three of those 55, they didn't show a net negative effect.

01:24:12.000 There was not a single study of the 55 that Cornell University looked at that showed detransitioning or gender-affirming care being a bad thing for trans people.

01:24:20.000 If anything, it was a net positive.

01:24:23.000 This is a meta-study of a whole bunch of studies.

01:24:25.000 I have another meta-study.

01:24:26.000 Hold on.

01:24:26.000 I'm trying to pull up a scientific study to confirm what you're saying.

01:24:29.000 Yeah, I also just want to ask a question about this too.

01:24:31.000 So you're mentioning that this is a meta-analysis of studies on people who have detransitioned, but by definition, right, this is taking into account people who went through, what, puberty blockers, hormone replacement therapy, physical surgeries.

01:24:43.000 Sure, for each study it was different things.

01:24:44.000 In some of the studies it was people who were going through puberty blockers, some had hormone therapy, but a lot of them in one form or another had received gender-affirming care.

01:24:50.000 They were trans when the study first tried to identify these people, and then it looked at them years later.

01:24:56.000 And how is this sample collected?

01:24:58.000 Because almost every single issue, or almost every single study I've seen from trans advocates on this issue use a convenience sample, rather than doing some kind of controlled, randomized Right, so this is a meta-study of a whole bunch of other studies.

01:25:11.000 So you would have to go between each study, because at the end of the day, I don't want to fall in this trap that me and Tim were about to do, where each of us starts saying like, well I have a study, well you have a study, well I have a study.

01:25:18.000 We could do this all day, so we should look at metadata, right?

01:25:21.000 We should look at compromising data that looks over a whole bunch of studies.

01:25:24.000 A second meta-study that I want you to look at, regret after gender-affirming surgery, a systematic review and meta-analysis of prevalence, This went to Canada, the Netherlands, Belgium, UK, Italy, USA, Brazil, Sweden, Singapore, Germany, Norway, Ireland, Serbia, and it interviewed, between 27 studies, 7,928 trans patients.

01:25:41.000 It showed a less than 1% regret rate.

01:25:45.000 Can I also mention something?

01:25:49.000 I have another meta-study.

01:25:49.000 Okay, I gotta address this right now.

01:25:51.000 There is a problem we are facing in that you are saying a lot of things and I can't pull up any sources.

01:25:56.000 At the very least, all I did was Google-searched it.

01:25:59.000 I pulled up the two studies that were associated with it and said, here's what it says.

01:26:02.000 I have not given you my personal perspective on it.

01:26:05.000 You have now given me your personal view on it.

01:26:07.000 No, I've given you the studies.

01:26:09.000 I have a third meta-study.

01:26:09.000 These are two meta-studies.

01:26:10.000 What are the studies?

01:26:11.000 Let me please pull them up.

01:26:12.000 I can't find what you're talking about.

01:26:13.000 The first one is Cornell University.

01:26:15.000 What's the name of it?

01:26:15.000 They did a meta-study.

01:26:17.000 It's Cornell University's meta-study of 72 studies on gender-affirming care.

01:26:20.000 Of that, 55 of the studies were directly related to detransitioning.

01:26:24.000 Meta-study on?

01:26:25.000 I just want to flag that desistance and detransitioning are two different things.

01:26:29.000 Cornell University, what does scholarly research say about the effect of gender transition on gender trans well-being?

01:26:40.000 I found it.

01:26:40.000 Oh, here we go.

01:26:41.000 Nice! 0.94

01:26:44.000 And the third one, the third meta-study that I want to bring up is a U.S.

01:26:46.000 study.

01:26:47.000 It's a 2015 U.S.

01:26:47.000 transgender study.

01:26:49.000 But this isn't a scientific research paper that's peer-reviewed?

01:26:52.000 No, this is a meta-analysis of scientifically researched papers that are peer-reviewed.

01:26:56.000 That's from whatweknow.inequality.com.

01:26:57.000 But hold on, do we have a standard on why we should accept this?

01:27:01.000 If you want to know their methodology, there's a click here to view the methodology thing.

01:27:04.000 You can find that out for yourself right there.

01:27:05.000 But this is not a peer-reviewed scientific paper.

01:27:08.000 This is a meta-analysis, Tim.

01:27:09.000 Of peer-reviewed scientific papers.

01:27:11.000 I reject it.

01:27:12.000 Okay, so if you want to reject that, I would write... Bro, next thing you're gonna do, you're gonna tell me ivermectin is some cure because of a meta-analysis?

01:27:12.000 I reject it.

01:27:17.000 This has nothing to do with it.

01:27:18.000 This has nothing to do with ivermectin.

01:27:18.000 No, no, no, bro.

01:27:19.000 You can't come to me...

01:27:21.000 When everyone tries screaming about ivermectin because of a meta-analysis that I reject and say, I don't think it works.

01:27:25.000 And then have someone from the left come to me and now claim meta-analysis is effective.

01:27:30.000 No, the point is this.

01:27:31.000 I said, give me a study and you cannot do it.

01:27:34.000 I am on my way to give you a third meta-study.

01:27:36.000 A combination of studies.

01:27:38.000 These aren't studies. 0.97

01:27:39.000 No, if we go study to study back and forth, Tim, this is going to take fucking forever. 0.89

01:27:43.000 Give me one. 0.94

01:27:43.000 One study. 0.94

01:27:45.000 One.

01:27:46.000 I'm giving you two.

01:27:47.000 Give me one.

01:27:48.000 This is embarrassing.

01:27:48.000 Embarrassing?

01:27:49.000 You can't give me one study?

01:27:50.000 I'm giving you two.

01:27:52.000 And I didn't even make an assertment.

01:27:53.000 I googled it and pulled up what I found.

01:27:54.000 You want individual studies instead of meta-analysis, which is ridiculous?

01:27:57.000 But sure, here's individual studies.

01:27:58.000 The mental health outcomes in transgender non-binary youth receiving gender-affirming care from February 25th, 2022.

01:28:04.000 Let me type it and pull it up for you.

01:28:07.000 Yeah, but I can explain to them while you're doing your own research.

01:28:09.000 Kids who receive puberty blockers and hold up. 0.64

01:28:12.000 Mental health outcomes in transgender and non-binary youth receiving gender-affirming care, February 25th, 2022, peer-reviewed study.

01:28:20.000 The findings, kids who received puberty blockers and hormone therapy had 60% lower odds of moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality.

01:28:28.000 Here's another individual study for you.

01:28:29.000 Hold on, hold on.

01:28:30.000 That, that, that, nothing to do with desistance.

01:28:33.000 Do you, do you want to go back to desistance studies?

01:28:35.000 That's what I was asking you about.

01:28:38.000 I google search desistance.

01:28:40.000 Wikipedia has two studies that say it's 61 to 98 percent.

01:28:44.000 I said, what's your source?

01:28:44.000 You said that's wrong.

01:28:46.000 You didn't give me one.

01:28:47.000 I did on the spot.

01:28:48.000 You gave me a meta-analysis that is not peer-reviewed.

01:28:51.000 It's not a peer-reviewed source.

01:28:53.000 If you want to go back and forth, Tim, on single studies, like I said, this can take forever.

01:28:56.000 Do you not have a single study?

01:28:59.000 I've named you tons of studies.

01:29:00.000 No, no, no.

01:29:01.000 You've given me a meta-analysis, not a single study.

01:29:04.000 A meta-analysis combines other studies.

01:29:05.000 Do you understand how that works?

01:29:06.000 Yes.

01:29:07.000 So what your argument is, is that you've got 72 studies that have drawn a conclusion, and then someone looked at them and made a difference.

01:29:14.000 You're saying that out of 72 studies that found a conclusion, It's at 72, 55 talked about de-transitioning.

01:29:21.000 It was a hypothetical number.

01:29:24.000 You're looking at a bunch of studies that have come to conclusions.

01:29:28.000 That are peer-reviewed and you're saying, but someone analyzed those.

01:29:28.000 Of course.

01:29:33.000 Cornell University did.

01:29:34.000 Who from Cornell?

01:29:36.000 Click here to view the methodology and learn about the methodology.

01:29:39.000 You just rejected it outright when you saw it.

01:29:40.000 Because it's not a study.

01:29:42.000 It's not a study.

01:29:42.000 It's a meta-analysis of studies.

01:29:44.000 These are different things.

01:29:45.000 I'm explaining that to you.

01:29:46.000 But the problem is these studies have their own conclusions you're ignoring.

01:29:50.000 They combine their conclusions to reach their findings.

01:29:53.000 That's how they do this.

01:29:54.000 Let me explain for those that want to understand what I'm trying to say.

01:29:56.000 During COVID, there were a whole bunch of studies done, individual studies, peer-reviewed, that found ivermectin did not work.

01:30:03.000 The right kept bringing up meta-analyses that said, actually it does.

01:30:08.000 I said, and I said this to Joe Rogan, I reject that.

01:30:11.000 Show me the actual study.

01:30:13.000 I do not believe this is correct.

01:30:15.000 I will not afford you some benefit to come in and make the same argument to me.

01:30:20.000 If you do not have a study that is peer-reviewed and cited, then I'm not going to entertain your opinions.

01:30:25.000 So when I bring up the Cornell University study, that's a study.

01:30:28.000 It's a meta-analysis of 55 peer-reviewed studies whose conclusion of 52 came to the

01:30:33.000 fact that there is a less than 4% detransition rate.

01:30:35.000 If you go to r slash science, Tim, you can find out.

01:30:38.000 No, no, no, no, no, no.

01:30:41.000 You're pulling up Reddit when I'm doing public studies.

01:30:41.000 Come on.

01:30:42.000 No, no, I'm pulling up Reddit because Cecilia, I believe her last name is pronounced Jen, explains and downplays why you're wrong about that 80-85% because she's the one who actually did that study.

01:30:53.000 She's the one who did the study you cited.

01:30:55.000 So she explains why it's being misused.

01:30:58.000 It is not true.

01:30:59.000 I can say this.

01:31:00.000 There are arguments about what is true all day every day.

01:31:03.000 There's arguments that M-theory is wrong and that science is unwilling to give up because too many scientists have dedicated their lives to it.

01:31:13.000 So they argue that M-theory is the theory, while others are coming up with like E8 Lie Group Theory or whatever.

01:31:20.000 I totally understand that people will decide what they think is true or not.

01:31:25.000 Hence, I have a bottom line standard.

01:31:28.000 If the right comes at me and says, Ivermectin meta-analyses prove it works, I say, don't know, don't care.

01:31:34.000 We have rejected the concept of someone analyzing a collection of studies and making determination.

01:31:39.000 What our standard is, or at the very least where I'm at is, if we're going to have any basic agreement on what is or isn't, there has to be a unified standard there, which is a peer-reviewed study, which is not absolute.

01:31:50.000 If I have two peer-reviewed studies and the establishment narrative, when I search for it, says 61 to 98 percent, I will not accept your meta-analysis opinion the same as I wouldn't for someone who believes ivermectin works, because your argument is founded upon the same basis as theirs.

01:32:07.000 Okay, so first off, the meta-analysis of ivermectin actually showed that it wasn't effective at preventing or treating COVID-19.

01:32:13.000 That was the actual meta-analysis of ivermectin, so it actually would back up your own claims.

01:32:17.000 Secondly, You and me can look at individual studies, and it can take a very long time, but we should look at regret after gender-affirming surgery, a systematic review, and meta-analysis of prevalence, which looks at, again, 27 studies, and interviews 7,928 trans people across the world.

01:32:31.000 And again, in places like Italy, USA, Brazil, you name it, that meta-analysis also found a less than 1% regret rate.

01:32:37.000 You have to be able to combine multiple studies, because this is something that has been so thoroughly investigated globally for so long, that to ignore the science and data on this, There's not been a single large-scale randomized clinical trial for puberty blockers to treat gender dysphoria.

01:32:52.000 There's not been one.

01:32:54.000 You all are very against Lupron, right?

01:32:55.000 Well, I don't know much about it.

01:32:57.000 Saying very against is pretty strong.

01:32:59.000 I'm typically like, we shouldn't give.

01:33:00.000 I'm saying there hasn't been one large-scale randomized clinical trial for these treatments.

01:33:04.000 Like Lupron for when children go through the early-onset puberty, and it's an actual medical issue.

01:33:09.000 Yes, of course.

01:33:10.000 That's why I'm saying vary against something.

01:33:11.000 What we're talking about is, are we dealing with an actual case of, say, endocrine disruption caused by phthalates and PCBs, or are we dealing with a kid who's just playing with dolls, and the parents are incorrect, right?

01:33:26.000 And in that case, you would have a long process where they would have to do interviews with, again, professionals.

01:33:30.000 You're wrong.

01:33:30.000 This is the issue.

01:33:31.000 whether or not it's appropriate.

01:33:32.000 And people who go on puberty blockers, I want to add this, it's for a limited amount of time.

01:33:36.000 They want to do it only to be able to hold that off.

01:33:38.000 No, it isn't.

01:33:39.000 If you speak to the actual doctors on this, you only take it, no, no, Tim, let me finish the sentence.

01:33:44.000 Come on, you brought me on your show.

01:33:45.000 Let me finish this.

01:33:46.000 You only go on puberty blockers for a short amount of time before you can be put onto HRT.

01:33:50.000 They do not want to keep them on puberty blockers.

01:33:52.000 And that way you avoid a lot of the potential negative side effects from that.

01:33:54.000 We had Helena Kirshner on the show who walked into a planned parenthood 1.00

01:33:58.000 and within minutes was given the maximum dose of testosterone.

01:34:01.000 Anecdote.

01:34:02.000 Absolutely.

01:34:03.000 So when I say lived experience happens, you say it doesn't happen.

01:34:03.000 Lived experience.

01:34:06.000 I'm saying it did happen.

01:34:07.000 No, I'm saying it can happen.

01:34:08.000 I'm saying you have to look at broader data.

01:34:10.000 You have to look at broader trends.

01:34:11.000 That's the issue I take, right?

01:34:13.000 Yeah, and it wouldn't make sense if I brought up a single horror story to you and said, this is fact.

01:34:17.000 It can happen.

01:34:18.000 We don't want that to happen, right?

01:34:20.000 Of course, no one wants that to happen, but then if we want to understand how this is actually taking place around the world from an actual perspective of science, we have to look at the data.

01:34:27.000 We have to look at meta-studies.

01:34:28.000 We have to look at and analyze global understanding of this.

01:34:32.000 When it comes to Lupron, by example, yes, it's true that Lupron is not FDA approved for the use on cisgender children.

01:34:39.000 There is a product that is FDA approved for use with children that is a puberty blocker, and it has been used for a long time, for generations and decades.

01:34:47.000 It's Lupron.

01:34:48.000 It was just being done for cis kids.

01:34:49.000 No, but that's for an entirely different reason.

01:34:51.000 That's for an entirely different reason.

01:34:53.000 So to say we want to prevent a child from undergoing early onset puberty so that they can develop at a normal, healthy rate is entirely different from saying we're going to administer puberty blockers because this child feels they're a member of the opposite sex. 0.97

01:35:08.000 That's an entirely different reason.

01:35:10.000 But whether or not it's use is dangerous is going to be the problem, right?

01:35:13.000 You want to know whether or not it's use is going to be dangerous on children.

01:35:16.000 And the reason for administering a certain treatment can render it dangerous.

01:35:22.000 So, for example, if we have been amputating people's limbs for hundreds of years, if I go into a doctor and say, please cut my arm off, because I don't want it anymore, and he cuts my arm off, that's medical malpractice.

01:35:32.000 For you to jump in and go, we've been cutting people's arms off for hundreds of years, this is medically approved, people are allowed to do this.

01:35:38.000 Can I answer this?

01:35:39.000 Yes, absolutely.

01:35:40.000 So what you're describing is called BIID, Body Identity Disorder.

01:35:44.000 I forget how it's spelled.

01:35:45.000 It is a real phenomenon.

01:35:46.000 Dysmorphic.

01:35:47.000 Yes, it's extremely rare but we know enough about it at this point to know that people will seek out to get operations on the black market if they have BIID.

01:35:55.000 And what we found when people do that and go to the black market to have a limb removed is that it only provides a temporary amount of relief for their condition and then it returns and they have further complications from the fact that they now have a disability and or medical complications that come from all that.

01:36:08.000 My point is not about any kind of body dysmorphia, about losing a limb.

01:36:13.000 My point is about drawing a false conclusion by a medical treatment being allowed under Circumstance A, but not being allowed under Circumstance B. You're saying we allow it for kids who have hit precocious puberty, but then we don't allow it for kids who don't want to go through puberty because they want to be a member of the opposite sex. 1.00

01:36:27.000 It's still not FDA approved.

01:36:28.000 That's different.

01:36:29.000 But you understand my point.

01:36:30.000 You can't claim those things are the same.

01:36:32.000 I just Google-searched it real quick.

01:36:33.000 Stat in 2017.

01:36:34.000 100 out of 100 with NewsGuard.

01:36:37.000 Drug use to halt puberty may cause lasting health problems.

01:36:40.000 More than 10,000 adverse event reports were filed with the FDA, reflecting the experience of women who've taken Lupron, describing everything from brittle bones to faulty joints.

01:36:50.000 You know, regarding meta-analyses... I'm worried about, you know, giving kids things on an experimental basis.

01:36:57.000 Yeah, this is a huge, long conversation, and it would be so awesome to go through each study.

01:37:02.000 I would love to.

01:37:03.000 It would probably take, like, seven hours, six hours, but we could do it, but, like, not tonight, unfortunately.

01:37:07.000 Well, so, let me ask you, though, like... But I want to keep down this path, because I think we're making good progress here.

01:37:11.000 Let me ask you a question, right?

01:37:13.000 Like, Jazz Jennings is sterile, right?

01:37:15.000 I don't know much about Jazz Jennings.

01:37:17.000 She's a reality TV star, right? 0.98

01:37:19.000 Jazz Jennings... I'm concerned that Jazz isn't trans. 0.90

01:37:23.000 That's not for us to say.

01:37:26.000 I didn't say.

01:37:27.000 I said I'm concerned that Jazz is not trans, right? 0.81

01:37:30.000 And the reason is Jazz is dating women now, right?

01:37:32.000 So then Jazz... What does that have to do with being trans?

01:37:34.000 Well, Jazz would then be a biological male dating women at the age of 23.

01:37:37.000 What does that have to do with being trans?

01:37:39.000 So it has to do with whether or not Jazz made the decision for themself, or the parent made it when they were three years old.

01:37:45.000 So the question is, we want to avoid a John Money type situation, right?

01:37:49.000 Where you had these two kids, and the doctor told one of the young boys he was actually a girl, and then forced him to live as a girl, ultimately resulting in his suicide, and then the death of the brother as well.

01:37:59.000 We don't want that to happen.

01:38:01.000 And so that did happen already, and we know that happened, so we have to be careful about taking a three-year-old and then raising them and telling them they're female, because then if they start exhibiting traditional, you know, gender behaviors, there may be some concern.

01:38:14.000 For instance, Jazz stopped dilating.

01:38:17.000 And that was the big controversy over the past few weeks, the mother going on TV saying she would force Jazz to do it.

01:38:22.000 If Jazz is saying, I'm not gonna, and the mother's saying, do it or I'll wring your neck, which is a quote, and then Jazz is not dating women, we're starting to see a pattern that may be concerning because it follows the John Money situation.

01:38:33.000 Whether or not Jazz is trans or not, my concern is, uh-oh, what if? 0.87

01:38:36.000 And that means there may be children who are going to be pushed down a path that ultimately leads to their suicide because their parents can't make the decision for them, but they did.

01:38:43.000 So the data overwhelmingly shows that if you give children gender-affirming care, especially if you have loving and accepting parents who accept children's actual gender identity, it reduces the rates of suicide dramatically.

01:38:53.000 In the case of a parent who affirms their child's gender, it can reduce suicide rates of up to 93% in some studies.

01:38:59.000 It's not a case of...

01:39:01.000 More often than not, these are children who are approaching their parents saying they think this is something happening to them and parents pushing back and being like, no, this is wrong.

01:39:09.000 You're just a tomboy.

01:39:10.000 Oh, this is, you know, this is not you.

01:39:12.000 This is blah, blah, blah.

01:39:13.000 And you don't go into a doctor and all of a sudden they're like, here's Lupron.

01:39:16.000 They do.

01:39:16.000 No, but they don't, Tim.

01:39:17.000 The average amount of time.

01:39:19.000 The average amount of time.

01:39:21.000 You can't say they don't when we've had the anecdotes they do.

01:39:23.000 Call it an anecdote.

01:39:24.000 I'm telling you it does happen.

01:39:26.000 Of course, but that's an anecdote.

01:39:27.000 We have to look at data, science, statistics.

01:39:28.000 So don't say it doesn't happen.

01:39:29.000 Well, it happens, but that doesn't mean it's a broad trend.

01:39:31.000 Then say it should not happen. 0.98

01:39:32.000 Right, but that's, okay, this is asinine. 0.68

01:39:35.000 We have to talk about what actually occurs via the numbers, right? 0.90

01:39:39.000 That's what matters.

01:39:40.000 Like, I have here the largest U.S.

01:39:42.000 transgender survey ever done.

01:39:44.000 It's in 2015 to 21,598 participants.

01:39:48.000 And this covers people in childhood, adolescence, and adulthood.

01:39:52.000 And it has all the results you're looking for.

01:39:53.000 So let me ask you a question.

01:39:54.000 Why do you think we're seeing a rapid increase in the past few years of young people identifying as trans?

01:40:00.000 I can explain that as well.

01:40:01.000 Okay.

01:40:01.000 Can I answer that afterwards?

01:40:02.000 Can you read the study, please?

01:40:03.000 Yeah, of course.

01:40:05.000 The 2015 U.S.

01:40:05.000 Transgender Survey of 21,598 participants that with hormone therapy, psychological distress for children reduces by 222 percent.

01:40:14.000 Late adolescence, 153 percent.

01:40:16.000 Adulthood, 81 percent.

01:40:18.000 Suicidal ideation for children goes down 135 percent.

01:40:23.000 For adolescents, 62 percent.

01:40:25.000 And for adults, 21 percent.

01:40:27.000 That is dramatic.

01:40:28.000 Is this the Stanford Medical School survey analysis done by Jack Turban?

01:40:33.000 I don't know the person who did it.

01:40:35.000 Okay.

01:40:37.000 But in terms of the increase, Tim, of people... Because there was a study done by Stanford Medical School that very closely fits the description of what you've just read out there, which is very ascientific.

01:40:51.000 Yeah, so just please find the source of that.

01:40:54.000 Because I want to pull that apart, but I want to be sure that I know you're talking about that study.

01:40:59.000 I'm curious as to why you think it's increasing so much.

01:41:02.000 What's that signify?

01:41:04.000 The history of left-handedness.

01:41:06.000 This is the history of left-handedness in the United States.

01:41:09.000 Do you see what happens here?

01:41:10.000 It levels out.

01:41:11.000 It goes up and levels out. 1.00

01:41:13.000 We used to treat people who were left-handed as satanic, as the devil, all that kind of shit. 0.99

01:41:17.000 You remember that, right? 0.99

01:41:18.000 And that's why there was a lot of people who didn't record themselves as being left-handed.

01:41:21.000 And then, boom, when we stopped doing that after the 1880s and in the 1900s, it spiked.

01:41:25.000 Now, this spike isn't because there was a whole bunch of indoctrination or Alex Jones was like, Oh wow.

01:41:29.000 ideology everyone has become left-handed. This has nothing to do with that. This is naturally how many

01:41:33.000 left-handed people there were and then it plateaued. We are in a situation right now where

01:41:38.000 it is safer than ever for people to come out and if they're queer, bisexual, whatever it is, and

01:41:44.000 because of that they feel safer expressing that. That's why Gen Z of all generations...

01:41:48.000 I was just starting there was a trans genocide. Yeah so here's... 1.00

01:41:51.000 This is this is the actual statistics on people increasing...

01:41:54.000 You can see the red one?

01:41:55.000 That is Gen Z. That is the amount of people who are in Gen Z. It's skyrocketing.

01:41:59.000 It looks like they're identifying more than ever because their generation feels more comfortable talking about this kind of stuff.

01:42:03.000 So you don't think that there's like a transgenocide or anything like that?

01:42:07.000 I don't think that there's a trans indoctrination that is coming through media.

01:42:10.000 Genocide, I said.

01:42:11.000 Yes, and I'm saying that I don't think there's a trans indoctrination coming through media that is programming kids to become trans. 0.99

01:42:15.000 I think that's ridiculous. 0.87

01:42:17.000 And if you want to change topics to talk about transgenocide, we can move on to that.

01:42:21.000 You asked me specifically, why is there a spike?

01:42:23.000 That is why.

01:42:24.000 Okay, so my follow-up is, you think trans people feel safer than ever?

01:42:28.000 No.

01:42:28.000 Right now there's over 400 different bills being pushed in the United States that is directly targeting trans people.

01:42:33.000 So they don't feel safe?

01:42:34.000 Of course they don't.

01:42:35.000 So then why are they coming out if they don't feel safe?

01:42:37.000 They have more access because that generation, Generation Z, has a lot more acceptance towards trans people than older people who pass laws, draconian people who pass laws.

01:42:45.000 The boomers are the ones running the show right now. 1.00

01:42:47.000 They're still the ones in government.

01:42:48.000 They're still the ones passing laws.

01:42:49.000 There's very few Generation Z in government or parliament.

01:42:52.000 You want to know what I think?

01:42:54.000 I think there is a trans genocide. 0.99

01:42:56.000 Okay.

01:42:57.000 And I think it's you.

01:42:58.000 Okay.

01:42:59.000 Because you're sterilizing a lot of these people.

01:43:01.000 How so?

01:43:02.000 I mean, you're literally sterilizing them.

01:43:04.000 The surgery to remove the gonads, hysterectomies, and cross-sex hormones, and puberty blockers have a high rate of sterilization.

01:43:10.000 I mean, first of all, removal of the gonads in the uterus is an absolute sterilization.

01:43:15.000 And then puberty blockers have a very high rate, and cross-sex hormones have an extremely high rate of sterilizing the individual.

01:43:21.000 So these people can no longer reproduce.

01:43:23.000 That's genocide.

01:43:26.000 Is this the joke you're going to go for?

01:43:28.000 Joke?

01:43:28.000 You are removing these people's ability to reproduce.

01:43:32.000 And if they're a young age and they haven't had the ability, like for instance, Jez Jennings can never have kids. 0.91

01:43:36.000 Jez Jennings also, and this is probably part of your studies, can't actually feel any sexual feeling of any kind.

01:43:44.000 Do you have any idea how weird this sounds right now? 0.96

01:43:47.000 Like, why are you obsessed with a stranger's genital pleasure? 0.99

01:43:50.000 That's so weird. 1.00

01:43:51.000 That's so bizarre.

01:43:52.000 That was very weird yourself. 1.00

01:43:54.000 You guys are all liars. 0.95

01:43:56.000 So I'm talking about adults who engage in activities, which is a large portion of the global economy, whether you like it or not. 0.99

01:44:02.000 Sex sells, they say. 0.99

01:44:03.000 And when I say this person will never have this ability, you go, how weird is that? 0.99

01:44:07.000 It's weird for you to fixate on a stranger's genital pleasure. 0.95

01:44:09.000 That's strange. 0.99

01:44:10.000 That's so bizarre.

01:44:11.000 She's public about it.

01:44:12.000 You're not making an argument right now, is my point.

01:44:14.000 I'm not.

01:44:14.000 I'm saying it's weird.

01:44:15.000 It's not an argument.

01:44:16.000 That's an observation.

01:44:18.000 So you're trying to make an appeal to emotion and an appeal to shame?

01:44:21.000 No, I'm just giving you my genuine thought when you say something like that. 0.99

01:44:23.000 That it was a really fucking pathetic attempt at trying to make an argument. 0.99

01:44:27.000 Why should we discuss whether or not she has genital feeling? 1.00

01:44:27.000 Why should we talk about that? 1.00

01:44:30.000 It's not in my business.

01:44:30.000 That's not important.

01:44:33.000 So let's focus then on the sterilizing of the individual.

01:44:36.000 Are you okay with that?

01:44:37.000 Who's sterilizing people?

01:44:39.000 Jazz Jennings is sterile.

01:44:40.000 Why are we going back to Jazz Jennings?

01:44:42.000 I don't know anything about her.

01:44:43.000 Because Jazz is a famous individual on cable television.

01:44:45.000 So if she is sterile for whatever reason, what does that have to do with me?

01:44:49.000 Why does that concern me?

01:44:50.000 Why should I pass legislation?

01:44:51.000 Do you support the sterilization of teenagers?

01:44:54.000 This is such a weird way to frame this.

01:44:57.000 You are removing teenagers' ability to have children.

01:45:00.000 I'm not doing anything.

01:45:00.000 I'm not a doctor, Tim.

01:45:01.000 You support it.

01:45:01.000 I don't have the ability to do this.

01:45:03.000 I support people having access to health care.

01:45:06.000 Of course.

01:45:06.000 Why would I want to prevent that just because some people have bigotry towards them?

01:45:10.000 Let's try again.

01:45:10.000 You seem scared of this.

01:45:12.000 Do you believe that parents and doctors should have the ability to remove the ability of a child for future reproduction?

01:45:21.000 They should have the ability to give them access to healthcare.

01:45:23.000 Of course they should.

01:45:24.000 So why did you say that?

01:45:25.000 You're implying that every single gender-affirming care results in sterilization.

01:45:28.000 I didn't say that.

01:45:28.000 That is not true at all.

01:45:30.000 There's also people who are trans that never get bottom surgery.

01:45:32.000 You seem very scared of this.

01:45:34.000 It's scaring you.

01:45:35.000 How am I afraid to?

01:45:36.000 Because you keep deflecting when I ask you.

01:45:38.000 So Jazz Jennings is a specific example.

01:45:40.000 Let's try this.

01:45:41.000 Let's slow down and go one point at a time. 0.86

01:45:42.000 You think I'm deflecting because I don't want to keep talking about someone's genital pleasure who's a stranger. 0.96

01:45:46.000 I'm saying it shouldn't concern you.

01:45:49.000 It shouldn't concern anyone, Tim.

01:45:51.000 Your appeal to emotion is not going to work on me.

01:45:53.000 I'm asking you a science-based logic.

01:45:54.000 I know I can appeal to your emotion.

01:45:55.000 I'm trying a logic-based question about the future of these people.

01:45:59.000 I believe you are genociding them.

01:46:00.000 I believe you intend on genociding autistic individuals. 1.00

01:46:04.000 I genuinely believe that.

01:46:05.000 Who's autistic in this? 0.97

01:46:06.000 A large portion of trans kids are autistic, namely females.

01:46:09.000 So, this is an issue in that young, lesbian, autistic females are a large portion of those who are transgender.

01:46:17.000 Do you have data on this?

01:46:19.000 I mean, come on, bro.

01:46:20.000 Do you have data on what you've brought up?

01:46:21.000 You couldn't give me one study, but yes, I'll pull it up for you.

01:46:23.000 I've given you not only studies, meta-studies.

01:46:25.000 I've given you multiple meta-studies on this.

01:46:27.000 I've given you a surplus of information on this topic.

01:46:31.000 Make up six times more likely to have autism according to NPR.org. 0.52

01:46:35.000 So I think you're trying to genocide autistic people.

01:46:38.000 I literally... Six times more? 0.74

01:46:39.000 What's the percentage of?

01:46:40.000 That's what I asked you.

01:46:41.000 Six times?

01:46:42.000 Sixty percent?

01:46:43.000 That's not how that works.

01:46:44.000 That's not... You don't... Six hundred, sorry.

01:46:47.000 No, that's not how that works either.

01:46:48.000 You're saying what percent of them are trans? 0.92

01:46:49.000 What percentage of trans people happen to be autistic lesbians? 0.57

01:46:52.000 That was your claim, that a large portion are.

01:46:53.000 I'm saying I don't know any statistics on that.

01:46:55.000 I've never heard that before.

01:46:56.000 Well, so the first thing I pulled up was that transgender and non-binary people are up to six times more likely to have autism, right?

01:47:05.000 Right, but that's not answering the question yet.

01:47:06.000 And your question is what portion of... let me google it again.

01:47:09.000 Because I thought that was sufficient and you know...

01:47:15.000 24%.

01:47:20.000 So that's not the majority, even if that stat is true.

01:47:23.000 Six times more common, 24%.

01:47:25.000 That's still not the majority, even if that statistic was true.

01:47:28.000 Yeah, no, the majority is... So 24% of trans people are autistic, according to that data, and 6% of... So what I think is, I think that there are people who hate people with Down syndrome, and in Iceland, they've actually publicly avowed or praised their eradication of people with Down syndrome.

01:47:47.000 I think that's horrifying.

01:47:50.000 Like, you can be okay with it.

01:47:52.000 I'm not saying you're not allowed to believe that, right?

01:47:54.000 You don't have to have the same morals as me.

01:47:56.000 I just think it's wrong to genocide, like, people with Down syndrome, you know what I mean?

01:48:00.000 You have completely derailed this conversation.

01:48:02.000 You're assuming that I'm pro people having abortions for people who have Down syndrome?

01:48:08.000 I'm not saying you do.

01:48:09.000 I'm saying in Iceland, they've stated- What does this have to do with trans rights?

01:48:12.000 Right, so we see a higher rate of autistic people, autism in trans kids.

01:48:17.000 We also said it makes up the majority, it does not even make up the source you pulled up.

01:48:23.000 I still believe that this is very much an effort. 0.82

01:48:27.000 I think the left is intent on genociding trans people.

01:48:30.000 In what way? 0.97

01:48:31.000 Removing their ability to reproduce.

01:48:33.000 How are they removing their ability to reproduce? 0.99

01:48:35.000 By cutting off their testicles and removing their uteruses. 1.00

01:48:37.000 That is not the only operation that is done. 0.99

01:48:39.000 There are trans people who maintain their same genitals as before. 0.86

01:48:42.000 Not everyone has to decide to get bottom surgery.

01:48:44.000 That's a choice they should make.

01:48:46.000 And cross-sex hormones do have a high rate of causing sterilization.

01:48:49.000 It can, but it doesn't always.

01:48:50.000 And you can be trans and not get any operations at all. 1.00

01:48:52.000 So, I think you are... So, like, I'm in favor of making sure these people can always have families and have kids, right?

01:48:59.000 Your position, whether you support the moral issue of it or not, results in many of them being stale.

01:49:04.000 For instance, the reason I use Jazz Jennings as an example, because this is a person on television with millions of followers, who wrote a book and told kids about this journey.

01:49:13.000 The journey that Jazz Jennings went on resulted in a complete inability to have a family and have children.

01:49:18.000 I think that's terrifying because Jazz was not old enough to understand the implications of that.

01:49:23.000 Jazz will never have a family. 0.87

01:49:24.000 Jazz, the genetics of Jazz Jennings is over.

01:49:29.000 That is one of the most horrifying things to me as a human being because I think genocide is wrong, right?

01:49:35.000 Why should her ability to be or have reproduction function, why should that concern you?

01:49:40.000 For the same reason the Uyghur Muslims in China concern me, like human rights issues. 1.00

01:49:45.000 China, for instance, has- But what if she never wants to have kids? 0.91

01:49:48.000 That's something you determine for yourself later in life.

01:49:49.000 Exactly, so why is it our business?

01:49:51.000 Because it's been removed before Jazz could have the ability to make the conclusion.

01:49:55.000 But again, that has nothing to do with us.

01:49:56.000 She could decide to never want to have kids, and that's fine and valid. 1.00

01:49:59.000 Right, so my morals would be that a society protects the children because there are certain things you can't know until you're at least 24 or older when your brain is fully developed, which is why we don't allow people to drink and do certain drugs, whatever drugs are legal, until they're 21.

01:50:13.000 So, for me, I'm like, if you can't drink till you're 21, if you can't smoke till you're 18, this society absolutely recognizes, you can't drive till a certain age, that the reason that the driving age is what it is, one of the arguments made, I think it was in Illinois, is that risk-taking is a lot higher in youth than it is in older people.

01:50:31.000 So the argument is, once you're past 16, you go through driver's ed, that helps control for the higher risk-taking of younger people.

01:50:40.000 So we set an age limit.

01:50:42.000 For someone who's 10 years old to be put on Lupron and then cross-sex hormones, they will never develop the ability to reproduce.

01:50:48.000 So in the instance of Jazz, again, a famous individual who's very influential with millions of followers, there was never the ability to reproduce developed, which caused complications.

01:50:57.000 Complications aside, that's Jazz's personal business.

01:51:00.000 But the puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones did sterilize Jazz. 0.72

01:51:05.000 100% sterilization.

01:51:07.000 Jazz was not old enough to understand the implications of that.

01:51:10.000 So I have concerns about having children, whether they choose to or their parents choose to.

01:51:15.000 I think that's genocide.

01:51:16.000 I can kind of see your argument because if a kid was straight, a straight kid, just a kid, and they were like, a 12 year old girl, and she was like, I don't want to have babies when I'm older.

01:51:24.000 And the mom was like, okay, then we'll sterilize you right now. 1.00

01:51:26.000 And they went and had the kid had a hysterectomy.

01:51:29.000 That's, I think that's illegal.

01:51:30.000 I don't know, but I would imagine society needs to protect little, little kids from crazy parents that are like, just because a 12 year old says they don't have babies later in life.

01:51:38.000 So the fact that it is sterilizing as a byproduct, I think should be, should be taken into account with the whole procedure.

01:51:46.000 I think that's still something that comes down to the individual and what they choose to do.

01:51:49.000 And if someone is like, I want to have gender affirming care, knowing the risks, then why is that my business? 0.99

01:51:54.000 It's the same thing with someone who wants to have a surgery that can have other complications.

01:51:57.000 That's not my business.

01:51:59.000 If someone had an appendix aflamed and they had to have their appendix out, there are potential complications that come from that, but I'm not going to prevent them from having healthcare and saying that you can't have a right to get your appendix out because every major medical association in the United States agrees that that is the best way to treat appendicitis.

01:52:14.000 And in this case, when we're talking about trans people, every single medical association in the United States agrees on gender-affirming care.

01:52:23.000 Every single one.

01:52:24.000 You know what they should do?

01:52:25.000 They should produce one single, randomized, controlled trial for puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones to show that it's safe and effective.

01:52:35.000 But they have not.

01:52:36.000 So it's not healthcare, it's experimentation.

01:52:39.000 You talk about giving kids health care.

01:52:41.000 That's not health care. 0.80

01:52:42.000 Health care repairs something which is broken.

01:52:44.000 You use the example of somebody's appendix not functioning properly.

01:52:47.000 Yeah, of course.

01:52:48.000 So what you have to do in that instance is intervene so that the body can function as it is intended to.

01:52:54.000 Destroying somebody's ability to procreate ...is demolishing the organ that you're claiming to treat, right?

01:53:01.000 You're destroying the biological function rather than helping to improve it.

01:53:04.000 That's not healthcare.

01:53:05.000 I want to pull this up too.

01:53:06.000 This is from University of Utah, because I was reading about this recently.

01:53:09.000 It goes on to mention that hormone replacement therapy can make you sterile.

01:53:14.000 And that it's important to preserve your sperm, it says, if you're trans feminine. 1.00

01:53:21.000 Otherwise, the hormone therapy may make it impossible for you to have biological children.

01:53:26.000 If someone is put on puberty blockers and then cross-sex hormones as a child, they will never have the ability to preserve their reproductive functions.

01:53:32.000 So if you're put on puberty blockers, they are reversible.

01:53:35.000 You can stop being on puberty blockers and you can still maintain a lot of things that you were worried about being taken away.

01:53:40.000 When it comes to Jazz Jennings specifically, she's actually made statements about this because, you know, I was just looking this up.

01:53:47.000 Jazz Jennings says, I don't regret my transition at all.

01:53:50.000 When I was 11, I started male puberty and I was put on hormone blockers.

01:53:53.000 Those blockers saved my life and continue to save the lives of so many youth out there.

01:53:56.000 If I was forced to go through male puberty, it would have been devastating.

01:53:59.000 Even more so, taking estrogen through hormone replacement allowed my body to develop how I wanted.

01:54:04.000 I blossomed into a young woman, eventually got bottom surgery, and now living as a proud woman today.

01:54:08.000 What does that have to do with me?

01:54:09.000 Why would I want to take that away from someone else?

01:54:11.000 What year did she make that statement? 0.80

01:54:13.000 She made this on March 31st.

01:54:14.000 She made it recently because that video came out where the mom said she was gonna force the dilator. 1.00

01:54:18.000 And then Matt Walsh went hard and jazzed.

01:54:20.000 He was like, hey Matt.

01:54:21.000 And then Matt was like, sorry Jazz.

01:54:22.000 There's a lot of questions around the morality of this.

01:54:24.000 The left likes to defer instantly to purity arguments, which I find fascinating considering the left typically has a low purity rating when it comes to moral foundations.

01:54:35.000 For example, when you said it's really weird talking about someone's genitals, it's a purity argument which the left typically never makes.

01:54:40.000 That's why I said it's a very weird thing for you to do.

01:54:42.000 Approaching this from an academic perspective, we would make a few arguments about whether or not a person can truly understand they've lost the ability to reproduce if they've never had it in the first place, the psychological and the philosophical implications of stripping away a person's ability to reproduce before they were old enough to even know what that was.

01:55:00.000 So, for example, If you take an adult human, female or male, and remove their genitals by force, they will be very, very upset. 0.63

01:55:08.000 Extremely upset.

01:55:09.000 In fact, it's a form of torture in a lot of countries.

01:55:11.000 It's meant to terrify.

01:55:13.000 If you took away their ability to feel sexual satisfaction, it's a form of torture.

01:55:16.000 In fact, female circumcision is horrifying to the world, and it actually was huge controversies up in Dearborn, Michigan, because what it would do is it would result in women who were as adults could not feel anything, and they were effectively used as like objects for their husbands.

01:55:32.000 So in making an academic argument, we would say...

01:55:35.000 Jazz Jennings does not understand, and that's fine if Jazz is happy, that's great.

01:55:39.000 The argument into the greater is, Jazz will never have kids, fact statement.

01:55:44.000 I think it's wrong to take away that from someone who doesn't understand what it is.

01:55:47.000 What if they don't want kids? 0.62

01:55:48.000 They will decide that when they're an adult and have assessed the circumstances.

01:55:51.000 But Jazz can't actually feel any of this.

01:55:53.000 Jazz can't feel, this was a study, there was a doctor who came out, did a Zoom video on it, specifically I think referring to Jazz, that Jazz will never experience Any adult satisfaction or desire.

01:56:07.000 And so the question then becomes, why did Jazz get bottom surgery?

01:56:10.000 My question is, why do you think Jazz got bottom surgery? 0.95

01:56:12.000 Oh, I don't have to ask that.

01:56:13.000 She explained why.

01:56:15.000 She said that she's satisfied with it.

01:56:16.000 That should be the extent of it.

01:56:19.000 What did she say?

01:56:21.000 I don't regret my transition at all.

01:56:23.000 When I was 11, I started male puberty and I was put on hormone blockers.

01:56:25.000 Those blockers saved my life and continue to save the lives of so many youth out there.

01:56:28.000 If I was forced to go through male puberty, it would have been devastating.

01:56:30.000 Even more, taking estrogen through hormone replacement allowed my body to develop how I wanted.

01:56:33.000 I blossomed into a young woman, eventually got bottom surgery, and I'm living as a proud woman today.

01:56:37.000 Yes, I do struggle with mental health and always have, but it's not because I transitioned, and it's unfortunately something many LGBTQ plus people face.

01:56:43.000 Why?

01:56:44.000 Because that has a lot to do with hate and a lack of acceptance that we receive in society, like I was saying before.

01:56:48.000 So to all of you speaking about our mental health, for views, and calling our families abusers, for supporting our transition, you are the only abusers.

01:56:54.000 So what was the purpose of the bottom surgery?

01:56:57.000 It affirmed her gender.

01:56:59.000 It affirmed her gender.

01:57:00.000 What does that mean, affirmed her gender?

01:57:01.000 So you have, and all of us have, a gender identity that we want to express in one way or another, and with hers, she affirmed her gender through the process of getting bottom surgery to look more and feel more like a woman.

01:57:11.000 Why do you think Jazz stopped dilating?

01:57:13.000 I don't know.

01:57:13.000 Probably because it hurt.

01:57:17.000 But if this was an important part of affirmation, you'd think Jazz would maintain it.

01:57:23.000 That's not for me to decide.

01:57:24.000 That's someone else's own identity.

01:57:26.000 Again, that's why it's weird to me to try and impose this upon someone else.

01:57:29.000 To try and say, you're disgusted at the fact that she can't have kids or something like that. 0.98

01:57:33.000 It's like, I don't know if she ever wants kids because I don't know who she is, but that's a decision for her to make between her and her doctor.

01:57:38.000 It has nothing to do with me.

01:57:39.000 Why would any trans child get bottom surgery? 1.00

01:57:44.000 Again, to affirm their gender. 0.95

01:57:47.000 As part of gender-affirming care.

01:57:49.000 And children don't get bottom surgery, by the way. 0.95

01:57:50.000 It's usually over 18.

01:57:51.000 Well, Jazz was 17.

01:57:52.000 And so there are exceptions, yes, but the average age is over 18.

01:57:58.000 Boston Children's Hospital has never done that on anyone under the age of 18.

01:58:01.000 The average age for bottom surgery is over 18 years old.

01:58:04.000 So... Overwhelmingly.

01:58:06.000 Why would... I just don't understand why the... It's not penile inversion vaginoplasty.

01:58:13.000 I don't know what it's called because Jazz didn't have a penis. 1.00

01:58:18.000 What's the purpose of making the hole, the space? 0.99

01:58:23.000 What's the purpose of that? 0.54

01:58:25.000 The operation is because it gives them, it affirms their gender through the process of having a similar genitalia to a cis woman. 0.98

01:58:34.000 What's the purpose of it?

01:58:35.000 I just explained that.

01:58:36.000 So the purpose of it is just feeling, just emotion?

01:58:39.000 No, the purpose of it is it is part of affirming who they are through a surgery that makes them look and feel more like a version of a woman that they want to be. 0.62

01:58:45.000 You don't have to.

01:58:46.000 There's not a template.

01:58:47.000 That's not the only version a woman can be. 1.00

01:58:48.000 There's other versions of how a woman can be and look, but that's the version that she wanted. 1.00

01:58:52.000 So what I'm trying to understand is why create a permanent wound For the purpose of a man to have sex with, in order to affirm the identity of someone who can't feel any of that. 0.78

01:59:08.000 Well, first off, I have no idea about the actual sensations that people experience after these kind of surgeries, but that's not my business.

01:59:14.000 And the second thing would be, I don't believe it's a wound.

01:59:17.000 I believe it's an operation to have a general change.

01:59:20.000 That's it.

01:59:20.000 To describe it as a wound is just very crude.

01:59:22.000 But it's factually a wound, right?

01:59:24.000 I'm trying to avoid the right, the right calls it a mutilation or an abomination.

01:59:26.000 I'm not saying that.

01:59:27.000 It's still crude to just call it a wound.

01:59:29.000 After it's healed, I'm sure there's no more No, no, it has to dilate for the rest of their lives because it is a wound.

01:59:35.000 Like I'm being academic.

01:59:36.000 I'm not trying to be insulting to anybody.

01:59:38.000 The right calls it mutilation and abomination.

01:59:40.000 The reason they have to use dilators for the rest of their lives is because it is factually a wound.

01:59:44.000 But you're asking me a question that I can't answer because I'm not this individual.

01:59:47.000 I don't know why someone would want to get that surgery because I don't, I'm cis and I don't experience these kind of things.

01:59:52.000 But if someone wants to, but Tim, if someone wants to and it makes them feel better and improves their quality of life, then why do we have to get in the way of that?

01:59:59.000 Well, can I interject here?

02:00:01.000 My position is, for adults, I agree.

02:00:03.000 And I had the argument with Tom Fitton.

02:00:04.000 He said it should be banned outright.

02:00:05.000 I disagree.

02:00:06.000 But overwhelmingly, when you look at the data, when it happens to children, it improves their psychological distress.

02:00:10.000 It removes and lowers suicidal ideation.

02:00:13.000 It shows in the data that it helps them.

02:00:15.000 That's not true, man.

02:00:16.000 No, no, no, it is absolutely true.

02:00:18.000 The study you have here, the largest one, so first of all, as I mentioned, there have been no controlled randomized trial, but the largest study you cited there, the largest study that you cited there does not say what you think it says.

02:00:29.000 The Stanford University one, it was 27,000 people who were surveyed in 2015, and then there were two analyses done of these studies by Jack Turban.

02:00:38.000 And he lumped data together and did a few manipulative things to, like, Get the results he wanted, but there's two very important things to mention, which is firstly, this study was based on convenience sampling, so they were speaking with people who were sent to them by LGBTQ advocacy groups and groups that they reached out to, so you're already not getting an unbiased population sample there.

02:01:00.000 And then, they were determining whether that person received puberty blockers and other such treatments or hadn't, but they didn't go over the reasons.

02:01:09.000 In fact, the people who hadn't received puberty blockers or those kinds of treatments didn't receive them because they weren't allowed to.

02:01:14.000 And one of the requirements for being able to receive that kind of treatment is some level of psychological stability, which means the people who weren't on puberty blockers in that study were more likely to be psychologically unstable, which we would expect to produce a higher suicide rate, but that wasn't controlled for.

02:01:30.000 On top of that, the data actually shows that the men who are on estrogen were more likely to become suicidal.

02:01:36.000 But what he ended up doing, that's true, what he ended up doing was lumping them together.

02:01:40.000 So he said, people on cross-sex hormones are less likely to commit suicide, because according to the sample he had of women, that was true enough to overcompensate for the increased likelihood of suicidality in the men, and he just threw them all together as if a man taking estrogen is the same thing as a woman taking testosterone, and we could expect the same medical outcomes. 0.99

02:01:59.000 And I'm saying that's bullshit! 0.95

02:02:00.000 So to respond to you, I do have a number of peer-reviewed studies related to this. 1.00

02:02:05.000 And if they're as good as that one, I'm telling you they're trash. 0.95

02:02:07.000 Mental health outcomes in transgender and non-binary youth receiving gender-affirming care. 0.99

02:02:11.000 February 25th, 2022.

02:02:12.000 This one shows kids who received puberty blockers and hormone therapy had 60% lower odds of moderate or severe depression, 73% lower odds of suicidality.

02:02:20.000 Gender identity five years after social transition.

02:02:22.000 This one is in the American Academy of Pediatrics, peer-reviewed.

02:02:25.000 July 13th, 2022.

02:02:25.000 Between 317 youth They found 94% of binary transgender stayed the same, only 2.5% reverted to reverting as cisgender, 3.5% as non-binary trans.

02:02:37.000 A UK 2019 study of 3,398 people who had gender-affirming care found that only 0.47% regretted it.

02:02:45.000 Another one, the impacts of strong parental support for trans youth found that parents who support trans youth, this was 433 participants, double-blind study, 93% reduction in reported suicides.

02:02:56.000 Hold on, and I think we can all have the good faith that you did as much work fact-checking those studies as you did the one I just tore apart, but I didn't have time to go into every single bit of statistical information you would bring here.

02:03:06.000 This is the problem with, like you mentioned, going to studies back and forth or whatever, so that's why I'm fine with...

02:03:13.000 I'm not here to change your morals, right?

02:03:15.000 And that's fine.

02:03:16.000 So my question would just be, why do you think it is that in Europe they've abandoned these practices?

02:03:20.000 A lot of it was political.

02:03:22.000 If you look at the history of it, especially when it came to puberty blockers and how that was handled, it was in large part a political decision that both medical groups, advocates, as well as pro-LGBTQ organizations, Outwardly protested.

02:03:37.000 And especially, like, I know you're going to bring up Finland, I believe was one of the countries that did it, Sweden as well.

02:03:41.000 The UK.

02:03:43.000 Yeah.

02:03:43.000 And in a number of cases, this is something in which experts, experts in the fields of endocrinology, pediatrics, they were very opposed to it.

02:03:51.000 It was politicians who were pushing for this.

02:03:53.000 And so this was a political decision.

02:03:54.000 This is why I don't like when politics get directly involved in medical decisions, because, I mean, like you were saying, if you want to look up the actual organizations that support this, It's every major medical association in the United States, everyone, without fail.

02:04:08.000 But they're for-profit.

02:04:10.000 A lot of times if you don't get politically involved in the medical industry, they'll experiment on humans for money.

02:04:16.000 Some of them are, some of them are not. 0.95

02:04:18.000 If I listed them to you right now, because I have the list, some of these are not for-profit institutions just looking to make a fucking buck. 0.78

02:04:24.000 Some of these are just genuinely concerned about child health care. 0.62

02:04:28.000 And some of them have various, I mean, ideological biases.

02:04:31.000 This isn't always about money all the time, but if you're going to reject what Tim is saying about medical institutions no longer performing these operations in Nordic Europe because you're claiming those institutions have become political, I don't know how you could give any credibility to the American ones.

02:04:44.000 So it's not the medical... Do you think the American model of practicing medicine is better than the model in northern Europe?

02:04:49.000 Let me answer your question.

02:04:50.000 It's not the organizations themselves that have done it distinctly.

02:04:53.000 It was politicians and political organizations as well as think tanks that were pushing for it.

02:04:57.000 And it was a lot of experts in the field that directly wanted it not to happen.

02:05:01.000 That were fighting against it.

02:05:02.000 But then why is it the case that the... So the nation that started doing this Earlier than any of the others was the Netherlands.

02:05:09.000 They started around 1990 administering puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for children who purported to be struggling with feelings of dysphoria.

02:05:18.000 And so they have some of the longest term data available on this and what they found is that transitioning has no effect on suicidality.

02:05:25.000 That's part of the studies that I'm interested in is the suicide stuff.

02:05:28.000 Like, in 2022, they measured a bunch of people that transitioned, they were suicidal, they transitioned, now they're not, but it's like, hey, that was eight months ago.

02:05:35.000 Like, how are you going to feel in four years from now?

02:05:37.000 So it's hard to say, like, now they're no longer suicidal, just because they're like, yeah, I'm not suicidal now, but, like, we need long-term studies.

02:05:43.000 We do need to go to Super Chats, because we're way past.

02:05:45.000 But I do want to ask another question, like, do you think the Earth is overpopulated?

02:05:54.000 No, I don't.

02:05:55.000 You don't think so?

02:05:56.000 I want more people.

02:05:56.000 No.

02:05:57.000 I love people.

02:05:58.000 I want more birth.

02:05:58.000 I want more humans.

02:05:59.000 I love everybody, man.

02:06:00.000 I want more people on this planet.

02:06:02.000 But what about climate change?

02:06:03.000 Climate change is coming.

02:06:04.000 It's real.

02:06:05.000 It's happening right now.

02:06:06.000 But you're not Malthusian then?

02:06:08.000 No, I'm not.

02:06:09.000 But more people means more climate change.

02:06:11.000 You've got more mouths to feed.

02:06:12.000 You've got more fuels to burn. 0.96

02:06:13.000 But more orgasms.

02:06:15.000 It also means more scientists figuring out how to cure the carbon problem.

02:06:17.000 That was kind of weird, right?

02:06:19.000 More humans doesn't necessarily mean more climate change, because more humans might figure out better ways to balance out the climate.

02:06:25.000 I'll just say one last thing, and we'll go to Super Chats, and then I guess I want to try and get to the members-only part.

02:06:31.000 Actually, Man, I feel bad for going long.

02:06:34.000 We should go to the members portion so we can do audience Q&A and stuff.

02:06:37.000 There's some big super chats in here.

02:06:39.000 I'll just, I'll try and grab as many as I can and then we'll try to just, we'll go straight to Q&A for the members only portion.

02:06:45.000 But my attitude is very, I'm not a conservative.

02:06:47.000 I'm pro-choice.

02:06:49.000 I think, you know, I've got my morality.

02:06:51.000 But in the long term, I really don't care that leftists are sterilizing and aborting their children.

02:06:58.000 I thought you did care.

02:06:59.000 From a moral position, but like, I'm not a conservative like Seamus, where Seamus is

02:07:04.000 very much like, we have to end this because, you know, it's wrong.

02:07:07.000 I'm not a conservative.

02:07:10.000 If a woman is going to get an abortion at a certain age, I'm like, I disagree with it, 0.99

02:07:14.000 but I'm more libertarian in the respect of like, people can choose to do what they want

02:07:16.000 to do.

02:07:17.000 I think it's certainly wrong to sterilize kids, but the end result is the future is 0.99

02:07:22.000 going to be a bunch of Christian conservatives and Muslims.

02:07:25.000 And Jews. 0.95

02:07:26.000 And Mormonism.

02:07:26.000 And Jews.

02:07:28.000 Yes, but the Jewish population, the diaspora, is like 12 million, and Christians and Muslims are billions.

02:07:34.000 But that's happened in Israel, right?

02:07:35.000 Where the more religious Jews have more children, so they're dominating elections. 1.00

02:07:39.000 And so we saw this since the year 2000.

02:07:39.000 Right, exactly.

02:07:42.000 Liberals have been effectively shrinking.

02:07:45.000 Gen Z is the first generation in 100 years to slightly move towards conservative in some areas.

02:07:50.000 Likely not because Gen Z is becoming conservative, but because there's less liberal Gen Zers than there are conservative ones.

02:07:57.000 So the end result of all of this is just like, look man, I'm not going to convince you to vote the way I would vote, I'm not going to convince Seamus to vote that way I would vote, but it doesn't matter anyway because in a hundred years, you guys are sterilizing and aborting your kids.

02:08:09.000 End of story.

02:08:10.000 Wait a minute, not you.

02:08:11.000 I think he's saying I represent the left to him.

02:08:15.000 Do you?

02:08:16.000 Do you feel like you represent the left?

02:08:17.000 You call yourself a leftist.

02:08:19.000 I don't feel I represent the left, no.

02:08:20.000 Well, you call yourself a leftist.

02:08:21.000 So I'm a proud leftist.

02:08:22.000 I wear that.

02:08:23.000 I don't have to hide that.

02:08:24.000 I don't hide my power levels.

02:08:25.000 I don't wear, you know, some kind of like hidden power.

02:08:29.000 My point is just this, right?

02:08:30.000 I'm just saying, I'm not, I'm like, there's no single voice for the left.

02:08:33.000 I'm not, I'm not the voice of the left.

02:08:35.000 Sure.

02:08:35.000 No, sure.

02:08:35.000 I'm just saying the left will cease to exist and the middle and the right will supplant it.

02:08:41.000 And then the middle will become the left and the right will, will stay the right.

02:08:44.000 Here's what I'll say is that LGBTQ plus people were heavily persecuted by a lot of different groups, including the Nazis at one point or another in history.

02:08:51.000 And you just can't get rid of the communists.

02:08:53.000 If you, and the communists, and if you were to get rid of every single queer, if you got rid of every single gay, every single lesbian, every single bisexual, every single trans person, if you got rid of all of them in a generation or two, they would reappear because they're a part of us. 0.96

02:09:06.000 They're a part of humanity. 0.73

02:09:07.000 They're a part of all of us.

02:09:08.000 They just exist.

02:09:09.000 They are part of the human experience. 0.68

02:09:12.000 Yeah, but I think that chart you show with the left-handed thing, if Christians and Muslims start dominating, they're going to be repressed. 0.99

02:09:18.000 Right.

02:09:19.000 So, the idea is, it's like basic math.

02:09:22.000 We saw this in 2000.

02:09:24.000 Liberals were having 1.45 kids and conservatives having 2.01 kids.

02:09:28.000 So, conservatives were at replacement levels and liberals weren't.

02:09:31.000 20 years later, we see slightly more, for the first time ever, conservative Gen Zers in some areas.

02:09:37.000 Gen Z is about, according to Pew, as progressive as millennials.

02:09:41.000 In some areas, a little bit more progressive.

02:09:43.000 In some areas, a little bit more conservative, which is shocking, because every generation was skewing more progressive.

02:09:48.000 This is likely due to the fact not, like I said, not that children were like, I'm conservative now, but conservatives had more kids.

02:09:54.000 So it really doesn't matter what your position is if your position is less kids for the left and more kids for the right.

02:10:01.000 So you think transgender people should have more kids? 1.00

02:10:03.000 I would love it if trans people and LGBT people had children and families.

02:10:07.000 That's my personal morality.

02:10:09.000 But the end result is there is one faction that is pro-abortion, unrestricted, and in favor of practices which result in a substantial rate of sterilization for children.

02:10:17.000 Conservatives, be it Muslim or Christian or Jewish, don't do these things.

02:10:22.000 And so the future is very obviously going to be an Abrahamic conservative country.

02:10:25.000 Yeah, but we need a more scientific religion in the future.

02:10:28.000 This is another two-hour conversation, maybe.

02:10:31.000 Let's read some superchats and then we'll try to get the members-only Q&A straight to the Q&A.

02:10:36.000 And I'll try and find some good superchat questions just to make sure.

02:10:43.000 Carly says, as a woman who's had an abortion and given birth later in life, this man needs to do some research, but he sure has some balls for having this conversation on TimCast.

02:10:51.000 Well, I respect it, absolutely.

02:10:52.000 I thought it was a good conversation.

02:10:53.000 Thank you.

02:10:55.000 Yeah, what is it?

02:10:56.000 YouTube.com slash TheSurf'sTV?

02:10:58.000 Yeah, everywhere social media is sold at TheSurf'sTV, if you want to hear my musings.

02:11:03.000 And I will add that while I do distinctly disagree with most of the takes of the people on this panel, they've been very friendly and very nice to me, and they put me in a nice hotel, and Ian is just as friendly in real life as everyone led him to believe.

02:11:18.000 I'm going to the moon with you, dude.

02:11:19.000 Let me, let me, here's one from MarbieDoggy says, please ask your guest if he feels the same about bodily autonomy, bodily autonomy with regards to the vaccines.

02:11:28.000 Yeah, I think you should have the right whether or not you want to take the vaccine.

02:11:31.000 So you would disagree with the vaccine mandate?

02:11:33.000 A forcible vaccine mandate? 0.98

02:11:35.000 I mean, for the purposes of freedom, yes, but it sucks. 0.96

02:11:39.000 That's one of those, like, it sucks, but of course, I don't think people should be forced to have to take a jab against their will.

02:11:43.000 Like if the government said in order to go to school... A government mandated... Well, no, like a government mandated vaccine program I disagree with in that, like, every single human being is, like, strapped down and like, oh, I don't want to take it, but you have to kind of thing.

02:11:54.000 But you would be okay with, like, every facet of society saying we require vaccines?

02:11:57.000 Oh, when there was a vaccination, like, um... What was the word for it?

02:12:02.000 Like a segregation of people who were vaccinated and unvaccinated?

02:12:05.000 Well, like, you oppose the government holding you down and vaccinating you.

02:12:08.000 Yes, I think you should have a choice whether or not you should do that, but other people should have a choice whether or not they get sick from you because you didn't vaccinate yourself.

02:12:13.000 Do you think the government should be allowed to mandate vaccines for public accommodation?

02:12:18.000 Yeah, for certain things, of course.

02:12:19.000 Like, we already do that for hospitals.

02:12:21.000 You have to be vaccinated if you're a nurse or a doctor against a host of different things for obvious medical reasons, and I think that serves an important purpose.

02:12:28.000 Same thing with the military.

02:12:30.000 The military is mandatory vaccination for the same reasons.

02:12:33.000 So your line is bodily autonomy, but not participation in society.

02:12:37.000 Well, you can choose whether or not to be a doctor.

02:12:38.000 You can choose whether or not to be in the military.

02:12:39.000 Well, I mean like going to a cafe or a movie or something, right?

02:12:42.000 Well, yeah, but I'm saying that there are certain things where it makes sense from a scientific standpoint, where like if you're a doctor or nurse, yeah, that probably is something that you should be vaccinated for.

02:12:49.000 It depends if that is directly going to have an impact on the broader society if people get sick.

02:12:55.000 But that means no bodily autonomy.

02:12:57.000 No, bodily autonomy, up to a point.

02:12:58.000 You can choose whether or not to go to the movies.

02:12:59.000 That's your choice.

02:13:00.000 You can choose whether or not to join the military.

02:13:01.000 So that's my point, right?

02:13:03.000 You don't agree with the government holding you down, but you do agree with the government excising you from society.

02:13:08.000 We already accept this.

02:13:09.000 The government does that in a variety of ways already.

02:13:11.000 Right, so the limitless...

02:13:12.000 Madison Square Garden, for instance, had a vaccine requirement, and I think Joe Rogan had to refund tickets because he sent the show before the requirement, and it was the government that imposed the requirement on all the businesses.

02:13:23.000 So the vaccine mandate, there's two ways to look at it.

02:13:26.000 I think what they're asking is Ostracizing or excising someone from society is a vaccine mandate, right? 0.56

02:13:33.000 Restricting someone's ability to... It's not.

02:13:34.000 You have an ability to... You have a choice to do it whether you want to or not.

02:13:36.000 It's whether or not you can have convenience and pleasure in society.

02:13:40.000 And it's obviously a big inconvenience if you don't get to go to see Madison Square Garden, of course.

02:13:44.000 But this is a by-case basis as well, right?

02:13:47.000 The government can pressure you to do it, You can take away privileges and access until you do it.

02:13:54.000 As a matter of public safety, we already allow this.

02:13:56.000 The government does this in a variety of ways for a ton of different things.

02:13:58.000 I get concerned about that phrase, public safety, because if another, if they're like, this common cold is very, very contagious.

02:14:04.000 Hey, we have a vaccine ready for it.

02:14:06.000 And I'm like, you know, let's do some long term studies.

02:14:08.000 Vaccines can be very dangerous if they're not studied properly.

02:14:12.000 So maybe that's another conversation to have.

02:14:15.000 I think it's very important not to let the medical industry govern us.

02:14:18.000 Well, that's why we have a government.

02:14:19.000 Also, this isn't all axiomatic, right?

02:14:22.000 So you could have the position that under no circumstances would you ever support the government mandating vaccines.

02:14:27.000 You could be of the position that you would be in favor of it, but just not for a disease with the infection and mortality rate that COVID has.

02:14:35.000 There's a lot of different approaches.

02:14:38.000 So, uh, Edmar says this guest looks like the kid of Brendan Fraser and Justin Long.

02:14:43.000 Did you get that, Brendan Fraser?

02:14:44.000 Not an insult.

02:14:45.000 Oh, my life.

02:14:46.000 My life.

02:14:47.000 I haven't called Brendan Fraser my entire life.

02:14:49.000 It's a running meme.

02:14:51.000 Tim, I gotta read this one.

02:14:53.000 I love how they call me a kid, by the way.

02:14:56.000 Hey, just so everyone knows, I'm the oldest person in this room.

02:14:59.000 Okay, never mind.

02:14:59.000 I'm 44.

02:14:59.000 I got you, dude!

02:15:00.000 I gotta read it.

02:15:00.000 I gotta read this one.

02:15:02.000 This is important.

02:15:02.000 I gotta read it. I gotta read this one. This is important.

02:15:05.000 1776 his life says what is a woman?

02:15:09.000 Would you like me to answer that?

02:15:10.000 Yeah.

02:15:11.000 A woman is an adult human female. 1.00

02:15:15.000 Easy enough.

02:15:16.000 I agree with that.

02:15:17.000 So trans women are not women? 0.99

02:15:19.000 Oh, absolutely. 0.99

02:15:20.000 A woman is hot. 1.00

02:15:21.000 Trans women aren't female, they're male. 1.00

02:15:23.000 No, they're female. 1.00

02:15:24.000 So they have female gametes and whatnot? 1.00

02:15:27.000 Oh, this is actually very interesting.

02:15:28.000 Do you want to talk about gametes?

02:15:30.000 So in embryonic development, When you have two gametes, obviously the sperm and the egg,

02:15:35.000 they combine, right?

02:15:36.000 Usually it's the 23rd chromosome, the XX or the XY, that is going to determine whether or not

02:15:39.000 someone becomes a male or a female, but that's not always the case. There are exceptions to this,

02:15:43.000 known as people with differences of sexual development, DSDs, or intersex people.

02:15:46.000 It's like 0.017.

02:15:49.000 It's, on a conservative estimate, 0.6% to 2% of the population,

02:15:52.000 there is more intersex people in America than there are redheads. 1.00

02:15:55.000 So there's a lot of intersex people.

02:15:57.000 That's if you go with the 2%. 0.73

02:15:59.000 That's if you go with the 2%. 0.73

02:16:01.000 Seamus is completely right, but I do want to add one really interesting thing about this.

02:16:04.000 Females and males. 0.72

02:16:04.000 So here's the neatest part. 0.72

02:16:06.000 There are individuals who have XY chromosomes, which is normally what is going to be a male, right? 0.79

02:16:11.000 It's not the only factor, by the way.

02:16:12.000 It's a push and pull with hormones and other stuff like that.

02:16:15.000 But there are people who have XY chromosomes.

02:16:17.000 So if you looked at their bones years into the future and you analyze them, they would be genetically male, but they have a specific condition that suppresses testosterone, which makes them develop 100% like women. 0.92

02:16:27.000 We are all templates.

02:16:29.000 And based on hormones, the expression of gender and different factors, we turn in one direction or the other towards more male or more female.

02:16:29.000 We are all templates.

02:16:37.000 Did you know that certain drugs don't affect men and women the same way?

02:16:39.000 Exactly.

02:16:40.000 And that's the interesting thing.

02:16:41.000 But we can hijack this entire process.

02:16:43.000 If we take hormones, so if we take testosterone or estrogen, we suddenly can have traits that are more feminine or masculine, the redistribution of fat, the growth of breasts, the length of hair, all that kind of stuff.

02:16:54.000 The socialist wants to redistribute the fat.

02:16:57.000 So here's what I'm getting to.

02:16:59.000 I think it was in 1993, they passed a law in the United States that required clinical testing to be done on men and women separately because women are affected by drugs differently.

02:17:07.000 And they found that painkillers, for instance, didn't work on women, and so these male doctors were all like, these women are sissies, they can't take the pain, when in reality it's like the painkillers weren't working. 0.64

02:17:16.000 And they also, in these studies, found that Yeah, no.

02:17:21.000 The differences between males and females, you can't change through hormones.

02:17:24.000 For instance, fast twitch muscle fiber, collagen in the skin, prenatal testosterone, the impact, that won't change from later in life taking hormones.

02:17:32.000 So a male's not a female, female's not a male. 0.98

02:17:34.000 Gen- sex is bimodal?

02:17:36.000 I think if you ask- It's- it's- it's genuinely not.

02:17:38.000 Any- any scientists- It's not bimodal?

02:17:40.000 It totally is!

02:17:40.000 Totally is.

02:17:41.000 Totally is.

02:17:42.000 We've- we've gone- we've gone from the left saying that sex is bimodal to not rejecting it? 0.92

02:17:48.000 Or- or- or are you just incorrect?

02:17:50.000 I think I'm incorrect.

02:17:51.000 Do you know what bimodal means?

02:17:51.000 Hold on.

02:17:53.000 I don't know.

02:17:54.000 It means that intersex people exist, and that there's an overlap between the two bell curves.

02:18:00.000 Oh, sorry, yes, you're totally right.

02:18:02.000 I'll take a big L right there.

02:18:04.000 That means that 97% of females will have statistically average female traits. 1.00

02:18:10.000 The reason I wanted to jump on that, though, is because you're saying that just because you have XY chromosomes, that means by definition you're male.

02:18:10.000 Yes, you're correct.

02:18:15.000 That's not true.

02:18:16.000 I didn't say that.

02:18:17.000 Do you know about the South African beauty queen?

02:18:20.000 There's a documentary on her.

02:18:23.000 By all accounts, if you saw her, you'd be like, this is just a gorgeous, beautiful woman.

02:18:26.000 She has all the parts of a woman. 1.00

02:18:28.000 She has breasts, she has a vagina, all that stuff. 1.00

02:18:31.000 But she is intersex and her chromosomes are XY. 0.99

02:18:35.000 So if you looked at her genetics, she's genetically male.

02:18:39.000 But accepting that we want rights for all people, including intersex people, doesn't change the fact that they make up a relatively small portion of society.

02:18:48.000 0.6 to 2%.

02:18:48.000 So a biological male cannot become a biological female.

02:18:53.000 Uh, no, no, no, no one is saying they can.

02:18:54.000 No, no, no, no.

02:18:55.000 You just did.

02:18:56.000 No, I didn't, not whatsoever.

02:18:57.000 I asked you what a woman was. 1.00

02:18:58.000 Yes, an adult human female.

02:19:00.000 And I said, is a trans woman a female?

02:19:01.000 You said, yes.

02:19:02.000 I said, a trans woman is a woman. 0.98

02:19:03.000 And they absolutely are.

02:19:04.000 This is not a gotcha.

02:19:05.000 But a woman is a female. 1.00

02:19:06.000 Cis women and trans women are different.

02:19:09.000 And trans women do not say that they're cis women.

02:19:11.000 They don't.

02:19:12.000 And that's what makes them trans. 0.97

02:19:13.000 They say they're women. 1.00

02:19:14.000 Yeah, of course, because black women and white women are different, but they're both women. 1.00

02:19:18.000 But trans women and cis women are different, but they're both women.

02:19:22.000 You said a woman is female. 1.00

02:19:23.000 An adult human female.

02:19:24.000 A trans woman is male. 1.00

02:19:26.000 That's what makes them trans. 0.99

02:19:27.000 They are not male.

02:19:28.000 They're women. 1.00

02:19:29.000 I just want to make a point.

02:19:30.000 A woman is female. 0.99

02:19:31.000 They are assigned.

02:19:33.000 Assigned?

02:19:34.000 Yeah, you're assigned your gender at birth.

02:19:37.000 Gender is observed.

02:19:37.000 We're two, right?

02:19:38.000 We're two super chats in.

02:19:40.000 I feel like a trans woman is a man. 0.98

02:19:42.000 And a trans man is a woman, and they're both.

02:19:44.000 You're both a trans woman and a man together. 0.92

02:19:46.000 They don't see it that way.

02:19:47.000 You never stop becoming one.

02:19:48.000 You always are both.

02:19:49.000 They don't see it that way.

02:19:49.000 I think the point about intersex or some people having chromosomes that don't exactly match up with their sex is not a problem for what is termed the gender binary by the left.

02:20:03.000 So I think the best way to define sex is based on, A, gametes.

02:20:08.000 You know, the role a person plays in reproduction.

02:20:10.000 And Tim mentioned gametes and not chromosomes.

02:20:13.000 So I would define a female as someone whose reproductive anatomy is ordered towards gestation, and then a male is someone whose reproductive anatomy is ordered towards insemination.

02:20:23.000 In the operating phrase there is ordered towards, right?

02:20:26.000 Because someone can have an issue with their reproductive anatomy, but it's still ordered towards something. 1.00

02:20:30.000 And recognizing the bimodal nature of human sex. 0.84

02:20:33.000 Meaning that overwhelmingly there's two big trees with a slight overlap in the middle.

02:20:36.000 Well, even that overlap in the middle, the vast majority of people who are intersex are basically, clearly a member of one sex, but with some feature that appears differently.

02:20:44.000 Ooh, that's not true.

02:20:45.000 Yeah, yeah, but with one or two features that appear a bit differently.

02:20:47.000 It's parents who decide that, and that's a huge problem.

02:20:49.000 That's a massive problem.

02:20:51.000 People who you genuinely can't tell are extremely, extremely rare.

02:20:55.000 I don't like the argument that we should reform society around...

02:20:59.000 You know, very, very small minorities, other than just protect the rights of. 1.00

02:21:04.000 So if we're talking about, you know, the issue of biological males going into women's bathrooms or something like that, you have an issue of the civil rights of females versus the civil rights of trans women, and that's where the conflict comes into play.

02:21:15.000 Yeah, but the conflict there is pretty easy.

02:21:16.000 The majority of people who abuse women in bathrooms is cis men. 0.96

02:21:19.000 Let's go after cis men for that. 1.00

02:21:21.000 Well, I think the solution is easy. 0.97

02:21:23.000 Just single-stall bathrooms.

02:21:25.000 The bathrooms here aren't gendered, but I want to say, everyone at home, if you didn't know that, they don't gender the bathrooms here. 0.93

02:21:31.000 There's no signs.

02:21:32.000 Because they're single rooms.

02:21:34.000 And that's the way the world should be.

02:21:35.000 My position has always been single rooms.

02:21:37.000 You don't have a right to be comfortable.

02:21:38.000 That's not one of your rights.

02:21:40.000 You could deal with it.

02:21:40.000 You know, life is weird and uncomfortable sometimes.

02:21:43.000 But the bigger question is, in general, when it comes to the transgender men in sports and women in sports and things like that, is the rights of females versus the rights of trans people and who gets supplanted.

02:21:56.000 Right, and so my answer to the bathroom problem would be the majority of women who are abused in bathrooms are abused by cis men, and so that we should be, if we want to protect women and go after abusers, go after cis men who attack women in bathrooms.

02:22:07.000 But how do you tell the difference between a cis man and a trans man?

02:22:10.000 I have to add one more part to that. 0.51

02:22:11.000 Trans women are more often the victims of sexual and physical abuse than they are the perpetrators. 0.85

02:22:16.000 But that didn't actually address what I said, right?

02:22:18.000 It's like, females and trans women, who gets supplanted? 0.97

02:22:21.000 If females say, we want a space free from males, period, Then should they have their rights protected and having a safe space, or should trans women say, no, we actually get access to this space? 1.00

02:22:31.000 Do trans men take away from your experience?

02:22:33.000 Do they supplant to you as a man?

02:22:35.000 Me personally, I don't care, right?

02:22:37.000 Me too.

02:22:37.000 In fact, trans men make my experience way more interesting.

02:22:41.000 But you haven't answered the question.

02:22:42.000 Because you're saying supplanting their experience, right?

02:22:44.000 You're taking away from women. 1.00

02:22:45.000 There are women right now who are saying, there are biological females saying, we do not want biological males in our space. 1.00

02:22:52.000 So should Blaire White be allowed to go in that bathroom? 1.00

02:22:54.000 I think Blaire White should go in the bathroom where Blaire White appears to fit in most. 1.00

02:22:59.000 So why does she get a pass? 1.00

02:23:00.000 Because she's very passing?

02:23:01.000 Is that why?

02:23:02.000 I'm not talking about... My view is Buck Angel should go in the men's room and Blaire White should go in the women's room. 1.00

02:23:08.000 But they disagree with that.

02:23:09.000 She's technically a biological male.

02:23:12.000 I think Blaire White agrees with what I just said.

02:23:14.000 Yes, but you're taking my position.

02:23:16.000 And good for you. 1.00

02:23:17.000 That's woke as fuck. 1.00

02:23:17.000 Hell yeah. 1.00

02:23:18.000 That's based.

02:23:19.000 We made progress.

02:23:19.000 I don't know if you watch the show.

02:23:20.000 It's not progress.

02:23:21.000 I've always had that opinion. 1.00

02:23:22.000 It's baseless fuck. 1.00

02:23:23.000 Hell yeah. 1.00

02:23:23.000 But I've always had that opinion. 1.00

02:23:24.000 So trans women can go into women's bathrooms. 1.00

02:23:27.000 Awesome. 0.81

02:23:28.000 Right.

02:23:29.000 Awesome.

02:23:29.000 I don't know.

02:23:29.000 We agree.

02:23:30.000 So my issue is Seamus doesn't agree with that.

02:23:33.000 And Buck Angel's biologically female.

02:23:35.000 But you think Blair White should have to go into a man's bathroom? 1.00

02:23:38.000 Yeah.

02:23:39.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:23:40.000 I think that just causes more problems.

02:23:42.000 Because, well, I don't want to say anything that's going to get Tim's YouTube channel taken down.

02:23:45.000 Let's go to the Members Only Show! 0.56

02:23:46.000 And Seamus can then say all of his nasty Catholic things.

02:23:48.000 Alright everybody, here's what's going to happen.

02:23:52.000 I'm sorry we didn't get to the Super Chats.

02:23:54.000 I genuinely apologize.

02:23:56.000 This is what happens.

02:23:57.000 We go off, right?

02:23:58.000 We're going to go to the Members Only Chat.

02:23:59.000 We're going to do audience questions.

02:24:01.000 Smash the like button if you'd like.

02:24:04.000 And head over to TimCast.com.

02:24:05.000 Become a member.

02:24:06.000 We're going to do the members only so that Seamus can say naughty words or whatever.

02:24:10.000 Yeah!

02:24:11.000 But before we go, you can follow the show at TimCastIRL on Instagram.

02:24:15.000 You can follow me personally at TimCast.

02:24:16.000 Lance, do you want to shout anything out?

02:24:18.000 Thank you so much for watching me and listening to my radical leftist Marxist agenda.

02:24:22.000 If you want to see me anywhere else on the internet, go to everywhere social media is sold at, at TheSurfsTV.

02:24:27.000 That's at TheSurfsTV.

02:24:28.000 And also shout out to the leftist mafia who's watching this right now.

02:24:31.000 Love all of you.

02:24:33.000 My name is Seamus Coghlan.

02:24:34.000 What I'm shouting out is the St.

02:24:36.000 Joseph Novena that I'm praying right now.

02:24:38.000 We're on day four.

02:24:39.000 You can find that on my Twitter.

02:24:40.000 I pinned it.

02:24:41.000 We're praying for the working class in this country in this time of deep economic turmoil, for the unborn, and for our enemies, people we dislike, people who got fired from Vice still in Mulvaney, and that our country will return to God.

02:24:51.000 And I am Ian Crosland.

02:24:52.000 I agree with you, the country will return to God.

02:24:54.000 I think it is very important that we, although we will focus on the things we are saying, focus very much on the way we are saying them and find a way to communicate with people that we may disagree with.

02:25:04.000 That's the root of empathy and communication and the unification of humanity moving forward.

02:25:09.000 Thank you very much for coming, Lance.

02:25:11.000 That was really awesome.

02:25:12.000 And Tim, you're a badass.

02:25:15.000 So are you, Seamus.

02:25:16.000 Not Surge, though.

02:25:17.000 No, Surge is... No, Surge is cool.

02:25:19.000 Surge is like a wavelength.

02:25:21.000 Yeah, that was quite intense.

02:25:24.000 Well, we still got more.

02:25:25.000 We're gonna do this Members Only Uncensored thing where Seamus is gonna go Super Saiyan.

02:25:28.000 Yeah.

02:25:28.000 Why are you putting this all on me?

02:25:30.000 Because you're the Catholic!

02:25:30.000 Is everyone going Super Saiyan?

02:25:32.000 I just get a word in edgewise on air.

02:25:34.000 I just agree with him on that.

02:25:35.000 And it's just me charging up.

02:25:38.000 All right, Serge?

02:25:40.000 Yeah, I'm Serge.com on Twitter.

02:25:42.000 This is going to be interesting.

02:25:43.000 Let's go.

02:25:44.000 And the last thing I'll say is for those that aren't going to be at the members show, Lance, this is one of the best episodes I think we've ever done.

02:25:52.000 I really do think These are the best conversations because we obviously clash and view the world differently, but this is where the conversation, it needs to happen for anyone's views to evolve or to at least understand what the other person thinks.

02:26:04.000 We're going to go to TimCast.com.

02:26:05.000 Go to the front page.

02:26:06.000 It'll be live in a few minutes.

02:26:07.000 We'll try to make it quick and then we'll be up and then Seamus will say naughty words.

02:26:10.000 Thanks for hanging out.

02:26:10.000 Why do you put this on me?

Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - May 04, 2023

Timcast IRL - Left Protest Over Homeless Man's Death In NYC, DEMAND Marine Be Charged w-SerfsTV

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