00:00:00.000Bill C-39 the Build Canada Strong Act so I'm lucky enough to have Liam with me today and Liam
00:00:11.120we were laughing because uh on the way in because and and I don't mean to be um sarcastic when I say
00:00:17.680this but you know I love the way they introduce or table these these bills because they come to the
00:00:24.300the floor and on september 21st transport minister mckinnon steven mckinnon he tabled it and it's a
00:00:32.700three-part bill and it's build canada now keep canada moving and canada strong for all so labor
00:00:41.500trade corridors and project approvals right so it all came into one but they they're so good
00:00:48.700at giving it these kind of uh dominant uh progressive optimistic names and whoever's
00:00:55.900doing the pr on these is doing a terrific job i always say this on the shows hats off to the
00:01:01.020liberal team for doing pr on these because when they do them i always think oh that sounds so
00:01:06.300good right and and when they stand up and they give the speeches but let's break it apart from
00:01:11.980it let's dissect it because i know you've been through this how many pages uh the bill itself
00:01:17.260is 243 pages so right yeah yeah so you know this 243 page bill i'm sure there's about a million
00:01:24.620lawyers getting fees on this thing um from a union perspective and the port's perspective
00:01:30.060but take me through because let's let's bring it project approvals because that's the biggest one
00:01:35.020you know we know we have the 27 27 initiatives that are sitting on the table right now and
00:01:40.540there's more to come i think in october pipelines is up to actually get an opinion or a decision on
00:01:46.300whether it goes into the major projects so take me through kind of what this new change for approvals
00:01:52.140means yeah so there's a couple different elements that they are changing on this process and at
00:01:58.540first when i heard this bill and i started surface interacting with it what i thought it would allow
00:02:04.540them to do is kind of rubber stamp past say a certain red tape that is holding projects uh in
00:02:12.060lieu. However, what I've come to realize is that it's actually just kind of formalizing a
00:02:19.900process that was split amongst many different bureaucratic compartments into one. So say,
00:02:28.540for instance, you wanted to get a large project approved, and let's say it had to do with
00:02:34.980fishing and on the coast and so on. Well, first you would have to deal with the fishery
00:02:39.920bureaucracy, get approval from them, then you would have to go and get approval from an environment
00:02:46.620minister, then you'd also, or sorry, an environmental regulator, then you'd also have to
00:02:52.380get transportation, sign off, that kind of stuff to make sure you can use the waterways appropriately.
00:02:58.940And so it was kind of a step-by-step process. But what this bill is now doing would bring that into,
00:03:05.560it would be very similar to instead of you now dealing with a bunch of different subcontractors
00:03:11.400they're building one bureaucracy that's going to build that's going to deal with all of those
00:03:17.160different bureaucracies on the back end and you're just going to deal with the one but
00:03:21.280you still have to go through all of those uh processes a very quick favor before we continue
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00:04:10.280But then also, too, there's, you know, and this is another one that we heard about, which is, again, on the headline front, it sounds great.
00:04:24.240well that's once the entire report is put into practice and handed off then the one year uh
00:04:32.240timer starts so so you have to meet the you have to meet the requirements of each of the bodies
00:04:38.320that reports to the centralized approval yeah regular regulator or approver process group and
00:04:45.680then from there that report is done and then you have the year yes okay so it's once it's handed
00:04:52.640in and so now this changes project to project but it can be anywhere from let's say six months of
00:04:59.680front load to get those reports necessary to years uh to be able to meet the requirements
00:05:05.680in order to even just apply for that process then that one year thing starts so there can be many
00:05:12.400like yeah up to years long process before they start that one year timer and so there is a little
00:05:18.160bit of uh yeah i guess more more friendly marketing there on that so so now it should
00:05:23.360change to build canada now or maybe down the road yes or maybe down the road yeah so
00:05:29.920yeah that's interesting you know and the funny part is when i heard it because i watched all
00:05:34.400the news and the scuttlebutt and they had um different uh groups come on and say this is
00:05:39.920terrific for approvals and to get things through the process and maybe it does you know i'll give
00:05:46.960them benefit of the doubt but i wish they would have explained kind of what the one year meant
00:05:51.840and that the fact that the other processes aren't going away right right it's an amalgamation it's
00:05:58.160someone who pokes them maybe a little harder to speed up their approval or non-approval processes
00:06:02.960yeah pretty much and and so i mean it does get that part of it done where i guess you get your
00:06:08.800yes or no quicker but again it's just still front loading so much of that work now rather
00:06:13.760than making it a sequential uh process well and you and i mentioned and we had done it on another
00:06:20.160show there's billions of dollars sitting on the sidelines right now so the investment summit that
00:06:25.200happened a few weeks ago you know the prime minister i think did a decent job at bringing
00:06:30.800people into into the into toronto getting them around the table they were a little slow i think
00:06:38.080on actually talking about the projects and what they were but they finally got them out the door
00:06:42.560and a list of them and then they got a bunch of funds pensions banks to step to the table and
00:06:48.720earmark let's call it earmark you said couple hundred billion dollars yeah so the identifiable
00:06:56.560initiatives right now is 192 to 200 billion dollars but then they're saying that they're
00:07:01.680on a path to 500 billion dollars right so yeah essentially there's roughly roughly 200 billion
00:07:08.080dollars in kind of potentially tangible projects there um but i mean a good example of of the the
00:07:15.520way that that unfolds would be the uae case where back in november of 2025 mark carney when he first
00:07:24.560went over to the uae and went on his big investment run to diversify they uh greenlit about 70 billion
00:07:31.920dollars of investment into Canada. And then they came here in June or July of 2026. And they
00:07:41.620essentially are coming, I'm oversimplifying here a little bit, but come in, come in and say,
00:07:46.800all right, we've got our checkbook ready. Like, what do you got for us? And then our government
00:07:51.420said, actually, we don't have any projects far enough along for you to invest in right now.
00:07:56.580And so, yeah, there's kind of these agreements, but then there isn't anything tangible on the
00:08:01.520ground to hit the road running west right because they're still waiting for approvals and yeah
00:08:07.980plans approvals processes to get the money uh into play because these investors need a business plan
00:08:15.760per se for each of these and how they make the returns who's involved whether government's going
00:08:20.560to put money into them you know that was the the show we did with mike a few minutes ago um was on
00:08:26.400the retirement age. Okay. Yeah, you helped us with it. And it was interesting because we were
00:08:31.940taking a look at the CPP investments and how CPP at some point in its future will be 40%
00:08:39.560dependent on its investment strategy and returns to actually make it work as a fund to cover the
00:08:46.700liabilities. Right. So that's a really interesting part. And then we were also taking a look at the
00:08:51.860fact that 47 percent of the assets in cpp are invested in america right now right yeah and so
00:08:58.800so we're sitting here saying we got to screw america but then our pension is more or less
00:09:03.480dependent on it right which is helping the productivity of projects in america and not
00:09:09.680helping the productivity of canadian projects so when i have this conversation with you and i see
00:09:14.780this hubbub of build canada now okay build canada now why don't we use the pension money that we
00:09:21.800have because i don't know why but maybe the pension um uh investors or the pension uh project
00:09:29.580their fund managers see bigger returns in the u.s when it comes to projects therefore they're
00:09:35.560putting the money abroad and and that concerns me when i see that because then you know you're
00:09:40.760telling me as i'm you're going through the bill with me and you're kind of dissecting it you're
00:09:46.080talking to me about the fact that we're putting in a process that hopefully will speed up the
00:09:50.260regulations and red tape to get it off the table and there's some warts on it as it looks like
00:09:56.800but yet we're taking our own pension money and we're putting it into other nations so
00:10:01.280it does concern me a little bit when I hear it I do like the marketing around it but then
00:10:06.000I'm trying to figure out what the marketing is all about at this point right and then too I mean even
00:10:10.920outside of the the bureaucracy and red tape discussion there is just market pressures as
00:10:18.180well, right? We've talked in the past about, say, for instance, on the housing side where, okay,
00:10:22.980you've got these approvals for new builds. Great. But then is it economically feasible right now
00:10:29.260for those companies to go forward and actually put shovels in the ground and get sales on the
00:10:33.600other side? And then so, you know, approvals is only one part of the issue. And then there's
00:10:39.340other aspects. Actually, a good example of a recent one was Nutrien, who they were building
00:10:46.260out potash. And so they decided to go with Longview, Washington for their build rather than
00:10:53.620BC, just because they were concerned about labor disputes in Canada. And so that's, I mean,
00:11:00.380actually, you could look at part of this bill, right? The striking provisions and kind of what
00:11:05.500that formalizes there is dealing with that side of things. But yeah, even outside of the question
00:11:12.100of whether something gets approved there's other factors that these people might make a decision to
00:11:17.380say go towards america rather than building canada well let's let's jump into that so
00:11:22.580build strong for all so this is the union labor piece right yeah so this is uh former i think
00:11:29.540bill 107 if i'm correct this is it was provision 107 of the canada labor code right yeah and you
00:11:36.100and i talked about this on another show about how many times in the last few years that they've
00:11:41.860used it to force companies back to work yeah pretty much it was unused until 2023 i think
00:11:49.220there was one outlier case about a decade before that um but it was you know collecting dust this
00:11:55.940provision essentially and then between 2023 and 2025 it was used 10 times to force uh force a
00:12:04.580striking labor or sorry a striking union to go back to work um but so what this process does in
00:12:11.460the bill is because now there's actually lawsuits uh by cube and teamsters or have launched lawsuits
00:12:20.180about the use of 107. okay um but this format in the bill essentially brings it into a way that
00:12:29.780well and actually it's getting disputed right now it is important to note that this is only in the
00:12:34.100second stage of reading so there's still might be some some tweaks yet uh on that front but it will
00:12:41.620create a process where instead of the government just kind of stepping in when it wants and laying
00:12:47.460down this 107 first what ends up having to be used is uh there's a 90-day period prior to a strike
00:12:56.660where the government will bring in a mediator for the employers in the union
00:13:04.980and then they go through a process if they can't reach an agreement then that mediator will create
00:13:11.940a report for the government and then the report actually will end up going public which will
00:13:19.220be used i guess to whether decide whether the government's use to break down the strike is
00:13:24.900justified or not but that will come on the back of that report afterwards so essentially like i
00:13:31.780mean a good way to think about it is it essentially lengthens the runway for the strike prior to take
00:13:39.300off but it doesn't actually guarantee that they'll stay in strike any longer than they would have
00:13:45.380prior right right well and it's interesting because the unions came out uh right away so
00:13:52.260that i did pick that up uh when i when the bill was uh september 21st when the bill was introduced
00:13:59.780it was in the media the unions were right away this is bypassing the negotiating you know mechanism
00:14:06.660how dare we they do this we we have to put this this this will mean no more strikes um and then
00:14:13.780they were trying to figure out what what essential services meant kind of what uh and that was the
00:14:19.380the whole thing that was through the media um this goes into you know it's being used now
00:14:26.100when it comes to airlines uh rail whatever um i assume as this passes or gets negotiated it's
00:14:34.820going to stay in in some shape or form what is that what do you think that means for unions
00:14:39.860because i was getting ready for this show and i was talking to mike and right away mike goes well
00:14:43.540you don't need unions anymore i'm like well i don't know if you don't need unions anymore because
00:14:47.220unions serve more purposes so but uh it definitely kind of puts a little bit of a dent into the
00:14:53.620process so um if you have to go to that 90-day mechanism and coming out of that 90-day mechanism
00:15:01.220if you're you know the report allows the government just to step in some of those
00:15:06.900industries quite frankly you know the the teeth really go away well yeah and this is gonna this
00:15:14.820is going to bring up an interesting conflict to see how it how it plays out over this period because
00:15:21.620hey maybe in the meantime while the bill is still being debated in parliament they can end up
00:15:26.820getting a provision or two in there that gets rid of their concerns i'm sure that that's probably
00:15:32.020part of why they're trying to kick up such a fuss right now is to give them some sort of uh
00:15:37.300like negotiating leverage uh in terms of public say outrage but then also too it's things could
00:15:44.980change between now and then but then also i think it was cube definitely one of the major uh labor
00:15:51.940unions said that if this bill goes through as is we'll just defy the law then and we just won't we
00:15:58.820just won't go along with it we'll just break the law and they'll have to take penalties and try to
00:16:04.100charges and all that good stuff yeah try to break it all down in court and just kind of elongate
00:16:08.420the process a little wildcat the government essentially is what they're essentially is
00:16:12.020what they're saying okay yeah well that seems like a layer we didn't need yeah yeah so now
00:16:17.380now basically i i don't want to settle with you and i don't want to settle with the government so
00:16:21.540i'm not settling with each party yeah okay all right yeah that's got more convoluted by the
00:16:26.740minute yeah yeah for sure okay well okay so help me out the one that actually i didn't do a lot
00:16:32.340of research in but you've briefed me before keep canada moving right so that's an interesting one
00:16:37.460ports rails yeah so this this comes down to the fact of okay let's say you green light a major
00:16:45.700project in some rural area of canada to get a new mine uh going or a new energy project then
00:16:51.860the keep canada moving aspect is to have the approval process for the transportation side
00:17:00.580also locked and ready to go um in terms of yeah say for instance approving a new rail line to that
00:17:09.300mine and that that uh or at least within accessibility uh ranges for that but again i i
00:17:16.340don't see anything and i kept kind of going and prodding in into this bill and trying to figure
00:17:21.300out where they could where any material changes go but it does seem more like administrative changes
00:17:27.620just in then anything in terms of okay we've actually gotten rid of the the red tape itself
00:17:34.420i don't i don't see much coming on that front and again like i said there has to be people
00:17:40.260on the back end actually willing to build those rail lines too yeah and so so yeah who as to
00:17:46.260whether this will create any material change i'm i'm skeptical as of right now yeah you sound like
00:17:53.620it when we got into this so really just some it looks like a lot of window dressing it looks like
00:17:59.220243 pages kind of a lot of window dressing it does it does provide some new kind of rights and powers
00:18:06.020on the labor side a new mechanism two new mechanisms to deal with regulatory uh challenges
00:18:12.260when it comes to ports and uh new projects but just a different is it it's just a different
00:18:19.940process right and into like again there's there's other changes as well so for instance now for the
00:18:26.340approval process it doesn't have to get signed off by all of cabinet rather it can be just a
00:18:33.140specific minister that is involved with that industry uh can sign off on a project but then
00:18:39.940even that i was looking back and going how many times has say one cabinet minister stepped in to
00:18:46.260block what another cabinet minister was doing and it's like no it's pretty much a formality more than
00:18:52.900anything right although i guess the one this the one silver lining whether it changes a material
00:18:58.580process in actually building these projects is one question but on the accountability front
00:19:03.940hey maybe that opens up something a little bit more so that when something does get green lit
00:19:09.220or something is being debated it's kind of centralized into one minister's decision and
00:19:15.380And so you actually have a person that you can think of as making that decision rather than kind of a, oh, we came to a unanimous decision as a cabinet.
00:19:23.980And then you don't really have anybody, any one specific person to assign blame or responsibility to or praise for that matter as well.
00:19:32.900Then there was another aspect, too, that I, this one I did actually find interesting.
00:19:39.160It's helpful, too, I guess, in the future.
00:19:42.960it's crazy to think that this wasn't already a provision, but when the environmental regulations
00:19:50.180are being decided, so prior to this bill, what would happen is they would say, okay, yeah,
00:19:58.260we want to build this project. And then the environmental regulations would say that, okay,
00:20:03.900you have to do X, Y, Z in order to offset any negative effects to the environment that you
00:20:10.220might have right where now they're adding a aspect where they have to consider the economic costs
00:20:16.700of the environmental regulations they impose on the company so before they could just say oh we'll
00:20:23.620make you do whatever and it's like oh okay maybe that's going to cost 10 billion dollars on a 50
00:20:28.780billion dollar project scrap the project it's just not worth it anymore to go through with this where
00:20:33.140now they have to factor in the economic cost of that of that environmental provision which hey
00:20:38.500yeah is i'm again i'm shocked that that wasn't already part of the process but uh at least that
00:20:44.660serves to be amended as well there yeah well that seems positive so given that and i think
00:20:51.220you know on other shows i've i've really kind of thrown the the challenge onto the table
00:20:57.460wondering if we're at the point now we need to transition from sort of let's call it the
00:21:03.700governmental regulatory process into the execution process so we have these 27 projects they're
00:21:10.180sitting on the table and you liam i'm you know and i good project managers are hard to come by
00:21:15.780and they're good to hard to come by because they're being soaked up around the world from
00:21:19.780other countries and so you're seeing people who have done major projects in canada leaving and
00:21:25.780it always was that way but more so now than ever because people are trying to get a foothold in
00:21:30.900projects to get through this this crazy times with oil and everything going on we are still sitting
00:21:37.220trying to figure out the regulatory process and the processes and revamping the processes to get
00:21:42.980that red tape going you know i i have to believe that we're again too slow and that you know that's
00:21:49.940been something we've been criticized for as a nation for quite a while from businesses abroad
00:21:55.060love to do business in can it's safe it's comfortable it's just slow you know and can
00:22:00.420it's slow so yeah you're going to go into a new process the new process is going to be centralized
00:22:05.300it's going to have a new body so now you're going to have to set precedence and that new body is
00:22:10.180going to have to fight for power against a bunch of other bureaucracies which will try to slow down
00:22:15.460the process and gain control back there's a whole bunch of that i really have to believe like at
00:22:21.540some point we we have to kind of push back the bureaucracy and put it in the hands of
00:22:27.940the project management people to kind of move forward and i still believe that they're not
00:22:33.220there yet the fact that it's 243 pages and it's not put in the hands of a certain specific group
00:22:39.460who's responsible from beginning to end um the fact that we're still talking about regulatory
00:22:45.300process and environmental processes, you know, which, you know, quite frankly, it's, I know
00:22:51.940that's an illiberal initiative, but, you know, is he still fighting with his own cabinet
00:22:56.820as far as, you know, the left wing liberals versus the centrists, like, are we still going
00:23:50.900And then to part of it that you can think about is, you know,
00:23:54.340and I've heard actually perspectives both ways on this because you could think,
00:23:58.660okay, then if let's say the conservative party was in charge,
00:24:04.500then would they have a easier time rolling back some of those
00:24:09.100those provisions because they never tried to sell them in the first place or actually and then
00:24:17.860the the opposite alternative view that I've heard that is interesting but a direct uh direct opposite
00:24:24.560to that approach is that well maybe actually Carney is the guy because he was sitting there
00:24:29.900as the front of the environmental movement like you know he chaired the and created the whole G
00:24:34.700fans uh un investment for climate change and so is he will essentially the liberal base be more
00:24:44.540willing to accept those changes publicly uh if it's their own guy leading the charge on that and
00:24:51.180who knows that could that could also be the case there too um but yeah it seems like we've largely
00:24:57.340shot ourselves in the foot on this one hey before we go any further please hit the subscribe button
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00:25:13.500happens behind the paywall all right back to the show well well and time will tell so you know
00:25:20.220we did a show about a week ago when i was going on i was saying let's figure out now so now
00:25:26.620summits happened the money's lined up bill c39 gets amended okay great you know you've you've
00:25:34.380kind of you have a majority you've called the ball you've got the 27 projects in place you're going
00:25:39.500to add more on the list okay give us a timeline a set of milestones you have and roll right and
00:25:45.980let's see where we get so we can we can actually monitor because that's going to impact if you
00:25:50.300think about all the the key performance indicators for the country that's going to impact our gdp
00:25:56.060our growth our productivity all those things are going to be you know basically uh evolve around
00:26:02.460these projects moving forward to spearhead a bunch of other projects and employment that
00:26:07.820happened so now it's kind of okay you've got the ball here it is you know c39 goes through
00:26:14.300if c 90 through c 90 39 isn't a good set of legislation and it doesn't meet the objectives
00:26:22.780of where you want to go with respect to your timelines to get these things in place on a
00:26:27.020timely basis to achieve the objectives we're going to see and then at that point we can
00:26:32.380come back and maybe it needs to be tweaked or adjusted but i think that's what we're missing
00:26:36.780again because we went to the summit we came out of the summit we said okay here's all the money
00:26:41.820okay great now where's the project managers that lay the milestones the timelines down get the
00:26:47.180projects into play deploy the money you know start to get the contracts move the projects ahead so we
00:26:52.640can go across the nation and look at project after project developing across the country
00:26:56.720i just don't see that again we're still we're now back talking about bill c39 and what we should do
00:27:03.800with labor what we should do with transportation and ports and rails and approvals which you think
00:27:11.280those would have been going in parallel you'd think right and the thing is he has a majority
00:27:17.860to do them so you know the the prime minister has the majority to move them forward you know
00:27:23.980politely has to ask to go through the process but really can move those expediently through that
00:27:29.300they get them voted on and get them approved and move it forward to get those projects into play
00:27:33.600experience do they have again it's the handoff now to the people that have the experience to
00:27:42.720build the projects right and do they exist because now i'm seeing the lull now we're in
00:27:48.540the lull zone okay and you we see it it's interesting we see it in the u.s right now
00:27:53.160when we're watching major projects kind of stall out are we going to see that in canada like are
00:27:58.080we are we going to experience that too because we don't have the experience to move the projects
00:28:02.360forward and is that could yeah i mean that's a very interesting problem again that kind of goes
00:28:07.960back to what we were originally saying right that even after you deal with the the red tape issue
00:28:12.920there is the whole market issue as well like do you even have the are there people here with the
00:28:18.040will to actually enact these things or have we scared them all off at this point and that's
00:28:23.080that's definitely a scary secret question to to ask i think i think the resource we're going to
00:28:29.000be lacking is those people yeah i really do i think it's becoming really apparent is we have
00:28:34.760we have great investment people we have great finance people we have lawyers we have all those
00:28:40.120people do we actually have the project managers left abilities well and i don't know that's the
00:28:46.120question i'm kind of wondering now because i'm looking at the gaps and i'm wondering okay do we
00:28:49.880just get out there on the end and some of these companies will or not because given where we are
00:28:57.240in canada and the dollar and uh our economic situation our uh our relationship with the us
00:29:04.200are people willing to come to take those projects on or do we even have them in house
00:29:09.640and that's the del that's that's the gap that i think we're seeing now well and i guess part
00:29:14.600of that is just a complete lack of faith and trust in the country itself right that kind of drives
00:29:20.760that that uh that atmosphere and i think it's i think it's warranted in in a lot of ways especially
00:29:28.200when you look at how things have gone but even too like you know we can we can sit here and think
00:29:32.840that this is a possible bright new path with bill c39 to kind of get rid of these issues but then
00:29:40.920even that like we look back to a year ago this is kind of just a build off of c5 which the way to
00:29:48.920think about the differences between the two is that if let's say these projects are like a highway
00:29:57.080well what bill c5 allowed them to do was pull essentially certain cars certain projects into
00:30:03.720a fast lane um but that was on a project by project basis where this tries to bring entire
00:30:11.080industries into that process like say for instance energy and so on but it's like okay
00:30:17.080Okay. Again, even from that initial attempt a year ago, there hasn't really been much material change, even with your ability to grab these projects one by one. And then, so yeah, maybe a year down the road, are we left in a similar position where we got to go, okay, we actually need to do the Build Canada Strong Act 3.0 in order to get over some of the issues that we didn't have, that we didn't fix in the first place.
00:30:44.440And then by that time, has that trust in that faith in the country just deteriorated further? And yeah, what do we do in the meantime in order to try to get that back up? And I think what you're going to end up seeing is how this comes into fruition, we'll see.
00:31:03.480but I do think across the West, even just outside of Canada, because these are problems that the UK
00:31:10.100is facing and America is facing and France is facing and so on, is that you're going to start
00:31:14.900to see these governments take a more authoritarian stance in their economies. Like I was saying at
00:31:23.000first, I was kind of hoping that this would allow them to just rubber stamp certain projects if they
00:31:27.320were important. But that's the reason that essentially a lot of these big global companies
00:31:32.940do like governments like China, because they can go there. And if the government wants them to
00:31:39.860operate within their borders, the government just goes, we don't have to ask anybody. We will make
00:31:45.780this happen for you tomorrow. And so I think you're going to see people start to move that way a little
00:31:51.620bit more or what countries i should say well you know and it's uh the u.s for example and i'll use
00:31:57.480that as a as an example in this case they do i think a very good job at actually going out and
00:32:04.360recruiting people for industries that they find important for major projects and security so
00:32:10.260they'll go out and they'll make sure that quite frankly to bring the brain trust in for national
00:32:15.560defense projects and the brain trust for roads and infrastructure they'll go out and they'll find
00:32:20.540engineers and people and they'll work with companies to entice them to come in to actually
00:32:26.220create that infrastructure they did that really well for years they've been struggling a little
00:32:30.780bit over the last decade but they you know in the late 80s you know 90s they did a terrific job
00:32:37.660of doing that now now it's struggling a little bit but they they were on that path we need to
00:32:42.860do that with our projects like identify the people inside the country want to keep here figure out
00:32:47.740how to do that um align them with the companies and i think that's the next piece we have to be
00:32:52.940careful about because we're putting projects on the board one after another we're putting bills
00:32:57.980in place now we got to see them launch and if they can't launch why so and but is it because
00:33:05.580we don't have the manpower we don't have the brain trust and and yeah my kind of that's where i'm
00:33:10.860starting to wonder where the gap is because otherwise we would have seen some of these
00:33:14.860projects take off faster we'd be hearing about them right if you you know we went across the
00:33:19.820nation from east to west and we were going across we weren't hearing much about those projects we
00:33:26.060were seeing people working um and mostly working in uh service industries they were working in
00:33:32.460banking we were seeing people working but we weren't seeing people working in the industries
00:33:37.340that were uh trade driven based on the projects we're trying to do and that was i was like i was
00:33:43.820saying to charlie that concerns me because i'm not seeing you know i'm not seeing that component of
00:33:50.140of society and of our canadian society and with the aging workforce that we're seeing now that
00:33:58.140even more cons i'm even more concerned about that because as they drop out uh drafting people in
00:34:04.780who have those that project experience and that experience to build those projects becomes even
00:34:09.340harder and we're not going to find it internationally yeah i think in the days where we could go and
00:34:14.140we we could get like a hundred welders from eastern europe they're not there right eastern
00:34:20.220europe's been you know devastated by wars and challenges you know the middle east all the
00:34:25.820places that we thought we could find skilled people to build complex projects that's a tougher
00:34:30.860market than we think now yeah and i think i think part of it is kind of reshaping our cultural
00:34:38.300attitude in a sense where you know this is a little bit more on the philosophical side but
00:34:43.580at the base there's three different ways that people can get status within a society which is
00:34:48.860through dominance just brute force i'm going to bully you into essentially being the highest
00:34:52.940ranking person here there's virtue which is showing off how good of a person you are and
00:34:58.700then there is success which is by bringing material achievement to the group and then
00:35:03.420you're going to get rewarded for that yeah and over the decades we've been especially like i
00:35:08.540mean america has always been a culture of success that's what they're going to award status to the
00:35:14.460capitalism right the people on the front of the magazines are the steve jobs of the world the
00:35:20.060people that bring new visions into being and make something happen whereas we're definitely more on
00:35:26.380the virtue side and that's why it's always been the the environmental stuff takes precedent to
00:35:31.820the success side of things we're willing to sacrifice our economy if it means we're
00:35:36.380a better that we can feel like we're being a better person about it and so i think part of
00:35:41.100that is just having our institutions reflect that drive for success and wanting to have that status
00:35:48.460on on a success basis and so that i think is really uh so much of the heart of it in this
00:35:54.380issue is because yeah we we've been essentially ranking the the things outside of the material
00:36:00.780success as much higher when i think they're wrestling you know it's interesting when you
00:36:05.020say that because uh and i think it's a great comment they're wrestling part of their pr
00:36:10.700is trying to get people to acknowledge that they have to do it now so and i i do see that in
00:36:16.540yeah i joked about the pr campaigns and how will they do but it's getting people to buy into them
00:36:21.500to explain why they have to bypass some of the processes not everyone's bought into that yet
00:36:27.340and i think that's the challenge they're having and that's going to be there is going to be that
00:36:31.340that point where you know the two two of the groups collide um you know what'd you say virtue
00:36:37.420and success yeah yeah and so there they will collide at some point and we listen hey given
00:36:42.620where we're at right now we have to we have to rank success over virtue for a little while
00:36:47.820because we got to survive you know until we can be virtuous again right right yeah pretty much
00:36:52.860no i agree with you totally and i think part of that is part of that is um the success group you
00:36:59.340know when you talk about the u.s and capitalism they're not going to worry about that they're
00:37:02.860going to come get the people to make themselves a success to drive that project forward at all
00:37:07.340at all costs we're kind of in an odd situation now because with the u.s trading relationship
00:37:13.260going by the buy we have to kind of switch off and figure that out and um but it's speed and i
00:37:20.140hope liam you know the bill c39 i keep saying this on show time shows time after time whatever
00:37:27.340we're going to do with this we need to do it now and get on with it and then see if it works and
00:37:31.660if it doesn't work tweak it because sitting around having discussions about bill c39
00:37:37.020everything isn't going to help us in a year from now yeah i completely agree with you thank you