True Patriot Love - Canada’s Pacific Link： $50B Pipeline or Political Play？

00:00:00.000 the pacific link hmm a second west coast oil pipeline let's see ottawa lists a project of

00:00:11.920 national benefit and national interest but who pays who fills it and can it actually happen

00:00:18.480 these are questions i will often turn to my friend paul micucci with in these scenarios paul thanks

00:00:23.880 joining me to talk about the link this is an interesting maybe non-story maybe non-story it's

00:00:31.080 interesting mike they've rerouted or there appear to be rerouting it south down to delta bc right

00:00:38.520 to the spit or the port so that's an interesting announcement i guess and eb finally backed out he

00:00:46.360 said he wasn't going to fight it now that they've turned from the north and gone further south so

00:00:52.440 So there's some positive news on that front.

00:00:55.140 It's a million barrels of crude a day is what they're talking through the pipeline.

00:01:01.160 And the cost is $35 to $43 billion.

00:01:05.380 So that means it'll cost $75 billion.

00:01:08.160 And to this moment, no real finance plan in place on it.

00:01:14.520 Well, no one stepped up.

00:01:15.780 So no one stepped up.

00:01:16.560 Pembina has said that they have an option to take more of an interest.

00:01:20.380 and being is going to be doing a lot of the project management to get the thing off the ground

00:01:25.480 they're going to take an option for 10 but yeah we're on the hook as taxpayers uh according to

00:01:31.800 the prime minister um so it looks like it looks like it's on the major projects list let's put

00:01:38.860 it that way okay it's made it to the major projects list now what does that really mean

00:01:44.020 paul i mean from what i and let's talk about that for a second the major projects what does

00:01:49.060 really mean i mean i look at the speed rail i'm going to put four billion dollars into trying to

00:01:52.900 understand whether or not we can do it uh are we going to do the same thing with a lot of these

00:01:57.380 major projects and just watch them disappear when it when the research comes back that it's

00:02:03.380 not feasible or have we already done this research and and done the economics on it to understand

00:02:09.540 this is a really good thing for the country well no it's interesting mike when you say that because

00:02:14.580 uh so october 1st daniel smith they're in fort mcmurray the prime minister get up on a podium

00:02:21.140 and they say listen we're going to put it on the list of special projects schedule one of the

00:02:27.540 building canada act it's going to go on the schedule it moves the project into the one review

00:02:34.020 uh led by the major projects office so one review liam and i did a show on it

00:02:39.140 the energy regulator hearings and the single conditions documents go into play and certifications

00:02:46.200 by the regulators all get amalgamated it doesn't change the fact that everyone from environment to

00:02:52.440 climate to all the administration still get their opinion on it but then it gets amalgamated through

00:02:58.880 one coordinator to make sure it moves through the process um but the right the right sounds at that

00:03:06.360 point, like we're really going someplace, Paul. It sounds by that description, we got wheels on

00:03:12.420 the cart and we are moving. A very quick favor before we continue. A large percentage of you

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00:03:39.000 just five seconds cost nothing keeps you informed so thank you now back to the show well that was

00:03:45.800 c39 bill c39 that liam and i went through liam kind of dispelled all the myths around it it

00:03:51.640 doesn't do any what it does primarily which the second reading happened on the same day

00:03:56.680 it actually amalgamates the approval process but you still have all those bodies kind of that are

00:04:03.720 providing their comment right so okay still an issue unfortunately but um but that doesn't

00:04:10.600 finalize the route or the investment yeah and so and when you say the route i mean really

00:04:17.560 not only where it goes but what the route is to financing yes to negotiation because you know i

00:04:23.960 take a look at this uh the the pipeline road it's uh by the way 1250 kilometers uh from uh bruderheim

00:04:31.720 to uh the new deep water terminal i think is what you mentioned there in delta delta so uh

00:04:39.400 that i think we understand i guess it needs to be proven but the challenges begin even slightly

00:04:46.840 before we start looking at the engineering possibilities because already we've heard from

00:04:52.120 from uh Grand Chief Stuart Philip this will be fought hard in the courtrooms and it ness if

00:04:57.640 necessary with boots on the ground right well I think they're the one uh First Nations group has

00:05:04.540 already filed a legal challenge and the second one's about to happen meanwhile we're even saying 0.69

00:05:08.860 okay we'll give 10 indigenous ownership uh if you guys just play along and they're like yeah right 0.63

00:05:14.140 yeah but you want more than 10 percent and I when I read that I'm like okay more than 10

00:05:19.420 what begs a question how do we be competitive if 10 of our oil trade is already going to a tariff

00:05:25.340 within the country to whichever you know whichever first nation uh whether i know it's uh cold water

00:05:30.940 or whatever and i apologize if i've used the wrong one but quite frankly gold lake first nations yeah

00:05:37.100 just some information uh for those individuals that are maybe not market savvy giving free equity out

00:05:46.140 in deals does not happen anymore that's a thing that's a 1990s thing so years ago what used to

00:05:52.860 happen in deals is if you wanted someone to come in and they had something you valued you used to

00:05:57.660 give them free equity for it skin in the game as we called it yeah you can get 10 because you know

00:06:03.260 you're standing in the way of something right those deals went away they didn't happen very

00:06:08.620 often they used to be sweat equity deals they listen they were the 90s were great awesome you

00:06:13.340 could you could muscle up a deal and quite frankly end up with 10 to 20 points on something they're

00:06:19.580 putting a any money in the game right you never see those deals anymore those deals are non-existent

00:06:27.900 so if the government still believes those deals exist then they're out of date right now they

00:06:33.500 just don't happen anymore well don't forget 10 is based on the equity in that in that company

00:06:39.900 therefore whatever comes out in the way of profits 10 immediately is going to the indigenous community

00:06:46.220 or the indigenous partner in this yeah which is fine but as you point out how do we compete when

00:06:52.860 we have to add 10 to the price or how do we compensate for that 10 in the marketplace and

00:06:59.500 still be competitive so the million barrels the million barrels that we we are would be if we

00:07:04.860 ever get this up and running be producing of crude a day we'd be going to a port to the port

00:07:11.900 and then being shipped to asia being shipped to europe being shipped somewhere else because

00:07:19.100 we we want to make ourselves uh non-reliant on the us the us which we're providing about

00:07:25.260 four million barrels a day so the guys told me before the show and i always you know that number

00:07:31.820 always varies that number goes up and down but but quite frankly so i don't know it goes up and down

00:07:37.580 based on how many buyers we have and how much we're moving to them and exactly so but but i

00:07:42.300 don't know how that makes us non-dependent because it's only a million so right so there's some

00:07:48.860 issues around that i guess we'd have to resolve all the time while we're doing this and this is

00:07:53.820 the interesting mike when i when we took a look at this so it's it's sitting on the schedule one

00:07:59.020 of the major projects list its route isn't is to be determined it has to cross a bunch of first

00:08:06.620 nations lands which then they need to resolve payments for right um i don't know if that makes

00:08:14.780 it even economically feasible i guess given the fact that it's a government project now and it's

00:08:20.700 our taxpayers money i guess anything's feasible because it's just money right so whether it makes

00:08:27.100 money or doesn't make money i don't think you know is it relevant it's so sad that you're saying that

00:08:33.260 well it's kind of the that's the case right so in in these major projects the the coming and going

00:08:39.340 of profitability varies based on so many things and in this case it's the number of barrels of

00:08:45.260 oil going through and the price you're going to pay for the land on the way through which by the

00:08:50.060 way sometimes it isn't money that makes the difference there may be an imp an impasse that

00:08:57.500 is just you know landowners saying no yeah yeah you remember uh when we um expropriated land for

00:09:07.500 highways and we do that all the time in different parts of canada a lot of times quite frankly the

00:09:13.100 farmer just doesn't want to give up the land for hydro poles or extended highway zones because he's

00:09:18.460 cropping the land and right you know it cuts his yield and and to the indigenous uh element of this

00:09:25.740 we have to think paul they have a lot more rights in the way of land ownership than even the average

00:09:30.700 farmer would it can't be appropriated for national purposes it has to be negotiated 0.87

00:09:37.820 i think that that this becomes political and the government gets blocked on this by the indigenous

00:09:46.300 element of it i don't even know if there's a price to be put on some of the deal the lands

00:09:51.580 that they need to cut deals on yeah maybe maybe i've never thought about that you know i i was

00:09:57.340 thinking more that bc you know the the government of bc would potentially be another blocker down

00:10:02.700 the road oh i think so i think as soon as it as soon as it crosses the border bc is the next major

00:10:10.940 yeah next major hurdle and how do alberta and vcu rectify that between them in your mind

00:10:18.460 uh just cash again it's the same thing it's another payment so it's another payment another

00:10:23.660 transfer we just keep going for layering on cost to this pipeline as we get going to make it

00:10:30.460 unsustainable yeah and late yeah you raise a good point it was so funny i read this uh the uh

00:10:37.980 international energy agency is basically predicting that demand runs flat by about

00:10:43.820 2030 2032 just as we bring this online so we're going to enter a marketplace where we've kind of

00:10:51.260 missed the market by the sounds of it i think so well we have so we have to spend here's here's

00:10:57.180 the interesting part well they're telling us this is the estimate of what we have to we have to spend

00:11:01.900 four billion by next spring right so i'm not understanding how we can get there either so

00:11:08.380 what is that so that's for all this uh the environmentals the testing everything we need

00:11:14.380 to do to even map this out so that's kind of the consultant cost to actually plan out the pipeline

00:11:20.060 this bothers me to no end so because we're going to spend four billion dollars just to find out we

00:11:25.020 can't do this yeah potentially we have to seed some money so the government would seed a bunch

00:11:30.060 of money into the project they've already committed to it that was the october 1st announcement

00:11:34.460 they spend the four billion dollars to do all the testing the pre-cultivation all the stuff you need

00:11:39.260 to do to get started um and then quite frankly we're off and running if we have a deal in place

00:11:46.940 and the courts haven't been blocked it and there is well i guess it doesn't matter if there's a

00:11:51.980 market so at that point you know they're not really they're not really trying to crystal ball where

00:11:56.940 there's a market because it's interesting like you know not that not that the source is great but

00:12:02.060 i don't know for those of you who had insomnia or have insomnia and couldn't sleep last night

00:12:06.860 trump at 12 i think they told me it was 12 17. he actually came out and he announced

00:12:13.660 a massive oil gas and mineral exploration is getting ready to begin in our new and beautiful

00:12:19.820 greenland so in our our new beautiful greenland there are experts that are saying that the amount

00:12:26.700 of easily available oil is far greater than that of most any land anywhere in the world and even

00:12:34.620 more importantly from a security purpose in the defense and offense of both the united states of

00:12:40.380 america and europe is second to none so he was he was basically bragging that we got all the oil we

00:12:50.140 need we got all the oil we need so we you know we've heard this now in venezuela we've heard it

00:12:55.420 now here now he's saying greenland is now going to be the next exploration hub you and i talked

00:13:01.500 about it he's doing anything he can to avoid buying oil from us oh he's everything he can do

00:13:09.020 you know again i always say with the americans just read what they're putting out you don't have

00:13:13.980 to you don't have to you don't have to guess they're not they don't hide what they're doing

00:13:18.220 they just come right out and tell you hey by the way i'm going to replace you as an oil source right

00:13:24.140 i'm trying and i'm going to buy from you at a discount i'm going to refine it for you for a

00:13:30.380 little while but by the way if this ever works you can kind of kiss this goodbye yeah we're

00:13:35.260 going to squeeze you out of the market as quickly as possible that is the mission yeah it appears

00:13:39.500 to be the mission as we as we say we're going to then start shipping oil to other places so

00:13:46.940 ottawa argues that it's market uh their argument is market concentration trans mountain expansion

00:13:53.660 since 2024 is the evidence that they're using and okay but that's already behind the like we're using

00:14:04.940 benchmarks that are failing yes

00:14:09.660 yeah we are and but but again alberta wants to hold a referendum you know yeah what do you think this

00:14:18.300 does oh does this help i guess it helps a little bit i guess you know for the uninformed kind of

00:14:26.940 people who follow the propaganda machine yeah oh great you know they reached a deal october 1st

00:14:32.540 getting another pipeline we should be happy let's keep going yeah i guess so and you know i'm happy

00:14:38.380 they stay in the country no i'm happy too but we all want alberta to stay it is it's not sure this

00:14:43.980 has would be the reason i would use to make my decision i would say the same thing but i do think

00:14:50.540 a lot of people would i think when they see okay the uh the feds are stepping in and they're

00:14:55.980 actually going to pay attention to us and we're going to have a better existence because of this

00:15:00.620 a certain amount of that population is going to buy into that i think i think the referendum

00:15:05.980 becomes a non-issue because enough people think oh well there's two ways it could go

00:15:11.100 people think okay this is the federal government taking more of our oil yeah and and squeezing us

00:15:17.020 harder and then the other element of it is okay the federal government's not abandoning

00:15:21.260 abandoning us and and i wonder where that split is in alberta at the moment if if this election

00:15:27.500 will really lean against this or ignore it or be offended by it uh you know it's funny i just did

00:15:36.060 that show with max bernier oh yeah yeah which is interesting because he's all for uh you know

00:15:42.780 potential separation referendums he's for all of that um and you know his platform for the ppc their

00:15:51.580 platform really is independence of provinces you know he doesn't believe the way the government is

00:15:57.900 currently controlled federally from a control perspective is appropriate and therefore he

00:16:03.500 believes the country will break apart because of the overreach of the federal government

00:16:10.380 okay it's an it's you know it's his platform so you know you got to listen and to some degree i

00:16:15.420 think that i understand where he's coming from like to me well we do see it at times yeah yeah

00:16:20.460 we do see it right we see the federal government stepping in front of us and and stopping progress

00:16:25.500 often often yeah yeah so he's you know he's basically saying you know listen um i think

00:16:32.700 you know and i asked him today i said do you think it's going to fail or succeed and he said

00:16:36.780 i think it will fail so i think you know the 19th october 19th that'll fail uh they'll carry on so

00:16:45.260 they'll they'll keep the fight going on for separation in alberta and that'll go on for

00:16:51.740 10 20 years and they'll have the discussion like they do in quebec somebody once described it to

00:16:58.300 me as uh you know how your neighbors might have those wind chimes up and you hear them in the

00:17:03.100 distance constantly that's kind of what the separation discussion is in alberta i think

00:17:07.820 ongoing and not so much even just alberta although quebec went the distance on it uh

00:17:13.340 and it got turned over uh i do think separation is a really that's a long trek and the federal

00:17:21.900 government placing these wedges in those discussions is what i think we're seeing here

00:17:27.020 we saw it with the churchill yeah paul's project okay everybody remain calm we're doing something

00:17:32.620 okay alberta remain calm we're doing something eb remain calm we're only going to go through the

00:17:37.580 parts of bc you don't visit but remember the interesting part and this is and you know this

00:17:43.420 was not part of the conversation this morning but it was interesting because we watched the

00:17:48.620 churchill falls announcement and then we watched uh you know the caq leaders get up and quite

00:17:56.540 frankly uh brag about the fact that she got a deal done you know with the premier of newfoundland and

00:18:03.420 labrador uh but to no avail it didn't help her they got wiped out they were you know 90 seats

00:18:09.820 last election and now zero so she got wiped out completely off the off the scene it didn't really

00:18:16.460 mean anything and i think um the prime minister had spent the time to fly down to do the press

00:18:22.300 conference thought that that might help um keep her afloat keep the caq in power keep the pq out

00:18:29.820 of power keep his make his life easier and voila what did he got he got a minority government and

00:18:35.340 barely uh almost hit a majority very became very close to getting uh just a few seats away from

00:18:41.900 getting majority and now he's got an amalgamation quite frankly the pq and the solid air which is

00:18:48.140 not a good combination because you got you know you know far far right far left it's a very i

00:18:54.620 wonder what max thought of that like i think canada was asleep i think most of canada was

00:18:59.420 asleep that i think the churchill falls thing got back to quebec and it was such a problem for uh

00:19:06.300 everybody that that the rest of canada thought okay quebec is probably going to sign this thing

00:19:11.500 meanwhile it went back after that very moment on the pier that you witnessed at a distance

00:19:16.140 in uh saint john's or in a pei i think it was we're we're uh it was saint john's it was at

00:19:21.580 saint john's yeah so churchill falls yeah so the uh that was an interesting moment because within

00:19:27.820 minutes of that quebec was already saying no no this deal doesn't work and it's going to get

00:19:33.100 turned over so i think that she actually just got it she got a pie in the face that she she lined

00:19:39.420 herself up for that coming election and it was maybe a deciding factor that the rest of canada

00:19:45.020 wasn't i think that we were pretty much oblivious ah you know everything's gonna keep this set

00:19:50.620 what a blowout and i think a lot of it had to do with this that okay we're gonna let the federal

00:19:57.420 government bully us meanwhile the rest of canada saw it as okay quebec's gonna get a fair deal

00:20:03.340 finally no quebec was not ready for that i don't think no no or nor to give more to the atlantic

00:20:09.980 provinces into newfoundland so but you know we'll see that that deal still that's still you know as

00:20:16.460 inked as it is today uh still has to get reviewed by the new government so we'll see can ottawa do

00:20:23.020 this without bc and alberta and uh without bc and uh uh the first nations can they just can is there

00:20:31.180 a way for them to do oh ram it through yeah hey before we go any further please hit the subscribe

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00:20:48.060 what happens behind the paywall all right back to the show yeah uh hmm it's very heavy-handed

00:20:55.020 uh they do it uh in the provincial world they do it through something called uh m that is like

00:21:01.740 ministerial zoning orders where they just go in and take the land and rezone it and go off they

00:21:06.780 go because they have to they do it for public uh public security and public uh safety and public

00:21:15.420 rights and so they do and uh hydro rights and passage and exactly so they do do it on the

00:21:20.620 provincial level on the federal level they don't like to set that precedent it's a little different

00:21:25.500 but it's not like a liberal government to go and do that no so really the personality type isn't

00:21:31.260 that but but think about it mike you know and i i'm not sure that they're my my guess is they're

00:21:36.540 probably not angling to this point but after after the 19th is done

00:21:47.500 really what's the purpose if it doesn't happen doesn't matter so you threw it on the table you

00:21:52.940 you went dissuade a couple of votes you did an mou you put it on the the major projects list

00:21:59.580 you lose nothing out of doing that you get goodwill the it comes back it the the referendum

00:22:06.620 question the vote they vote against it or they don't want to separate um and quite frankly so

00:22:13.580 now you get a big swing your way and then you come back you do the business plan you spend the four

00:22:19.820 billion dollars it doesn't work okay so you now you've gone exactly where i was hoping we would

00:22:26.140 land right so carney just spent four billion dollars to keep alberta uh he hasn't spent it

00:22:34.620 yet but yeah he probably has he's committed four million dollars committed it's earmarked

00:22:38.380 in the end it's earmarks in the end the pipeline ain't gonna go but he made a good impression on

00:22:44.380 alberta they stay in the pipeline dies it cost them four billion dollars maybe less by the time

00:22:51.100 they give up yeah so now here let me just say this for the social media clip money well spent

00:22:58.380 that's some of the best government money i've seen us spend in a long time hold on

00:23:02.460 we're going to end a discussion about separation for under four billion dollars

00:23:07.740 where do i sign yeah yeah i did you know that's i don't know if that's fully in their thinking

00:23:15.180 but quite frankly i'm sure at some point it's ways it comes into the equation mike and i'm sure

00:23:20.620 someone sitting there and saying you know let's throw it on the table let's go and try to get a

00:23:25.260 deal that works and if the best efforts if we can't get it done it doesn't happen and if it

00:23:30.620 doesn't happen we've already doubled down to electrification so think about it mike we've been

00:23:35.740 we've been a deck almost a decade now you know we were at the point it's funny how i always

00:23:41.660 interested how canadians forget our past so fast like it's it's it's amazing how we kind of just

00:23:48.460 zoom out no we have two week memories and i was i was on the weekend watching a show on the sales

00:23:54.860 of electric vehicles and watching how we have put back the subsidies for electric vehicles so when

00:24:01.020 you buy one you get a five thousand dollar subsidy for the purchase of an electric vehicle which has

00:24:06.140 caused a slight bump in sales but still not what they and they thought would happen yeah they

00:24:12.220 haven't hit the targets so still between 10 and 12 percent i'm probably off a few percentage but

00:24:17.820 uh sales bumped up a little when but it didn't get to where they thought people haven't totally

00:24:23.420 jumped grabbed but if people remember there was a point in time where we were told at 2030

00:24:29.420 just a few short years away we'd all have to be in electric vehicles yeah so i was even myself

00:24:36.220 i was actually at one point i was starting to figure out my uh you know i don't know if you

00:24:42.620 call it a fleet but the vehicles i have for businesses and pleasure to flip them to and

00:24:47.180 i was trying to think how to flip them over to go to electric so we we were at some point starting

00:24:51.900 to figure out the strategy when you know when the right time would be and everything else and we had

00:24:58.380 had a conversation about it as a family and as business owners so we had already started talking

00:25:03.180 about it and we were we were kind of there then all of a sudden one day no it's not happening

00:25:07.180 then another day oh it's 20 35 and then it sits now kind of dangling out there so you know maybe

00:25:14.700 tomorrow after the 19th we'll get you know in two weeks we'll get this announcement that

00:25:21.740 we're going back to 2035 i almost think that that's a possibility and then if we're going back

00:25:27.500 to you know when i mean think about the winners i think 20 you know i have to do a fact check on it

00:25:32.940 but i think 2035 is still out there oh i didn't know i thought i didn't know it was still on the

00:25:38.140 i mean i understood it as a target yeah as a target i think not as a hard not not as now

00:25:43.500 think about how everybody benefits from this failure of a pipeline okay sorry to call it that

00:25:48.780 it hasn't even begun you shouldn't call it failure no no but think about who benefits from it now

00:25:54.220 for under four billion i just want to reiterate that financing four billion dollars is not a big

00:25:59.980 deal when we throw money around the way we do to keep a province okay so we're gonna we've committed

00:26:05.980 that four billion dollars yep after the election it doesn't really matter because there's not going

00:26:10.380 to be a referendum alberta gets the feeling so alberta's back in the country at that point danielle

00:26:17.900 smith is pretty much sat on the fence but supported the separatism if you want to separate i understand

00:26:22.860 and i'll i'll be there i'll be there for you but you know i i really hope we can be a really good

00:26:28.140 fence sit was a smart move for her yeah yeah brilliant the referendum goes away the pipeline

00:26:34.220 disappears eb looks like a hero for fighting it so hard the indigenous people will find another

00:26:39.580 way to make money uh i think in in a different way maybe even building their own pipeline we'll talk

00:26:46.460 about that on another day yeah that is a real possibility and everybody's off scot-free everybody

00:26:53.740 for four billion dollars everybody comes up look smelling like roses we still don't have

00:26:59.900 an oil market but there probably isn't one by 2033 you never yeah i don't know uh we don't

00:27:06.620 know what happens crystal ball yeah you know you have a partner who doesn't want right now you know

00:27:10.540 you have a partner who doesn't want to be in your space everybody involved in this from the federal

00:27:15.740 government to the provincial government even through the us everybody gets to push the snooze

00:27:20.860 button for another six months that's the benefit here okay we can go back to just being in snooze

00:27:27.020 mode while we figure out what to do now that we're not doing a pipeline yeah and then you start the

00:27:33.740 soft advertising of electric vehicles again the fact that electric vehicles are good you're back

00:27:39.180 into electrification you know watch the pr machine go switch to electric yeah yeah well they started

00:27:46.220 on the weekend yeah actually they started yeah i don't know if over the things you mentioned it to

00:27:50.460 me over the thanksgiving weekend you started to see you hadn't seen it for a while you started to

00:27:54.140 see those shows and commercials and uh news pop up about electric cars and this and you know

00:28:03.740 reminding us of some of that you know good information listen i don't want to come off like

00:28:08.540 uh sort of a podcast news prostitute but if there are any electric vehicle companies would like to

00:28:16.060 sponsor i'm all about electric vehicles because to be honest with you paul i don't think it matters

00:28:21.740 anymore i mean i was oil let's produce oil let's produce oil but as i look at the numbers the

00:28:28.300 process to get there 2033 which means 2037 yeah i mean george jetson could be flying by in a in

00:28:35.260 an anti-gravity machine at that moment i think that we've missed the market so bad we might as

00:28:39.660 well switch our focus yeah but you know my my theory and i drive you guys crazy but you know

00:28:45.900 when we you know in 1980 when we made the policy decision to leave oil in a big way and farm it out

00:28:54.300 to third-party companies which then became a bigger mess and quite frankly now the the interesting

00:29:01.340 part that i find mike we're having this conversation and we're having it about the pacific link

00:29:07.660 not once have we talked about canadians so the prime minister came out and he said

00:29:13.900 we're all this is going to make a lot of money for us right his quote was ridiculous

00:29:20.380 so the canadian taxpayer is going to make a lot of money off this pipeline

00:29:24.460 so where's the where's the money going not to you and i no but where so where is it going so

00:29:29.820 if if we take a look which we look before the show at countries that are that are

00:29:35.820 oil producers crude producers in a big way they're not paying near what we pay for gas

00:29:43.100 so is it going to go for is it going to come back to me in the form of cheaper fuel for for my

00:29:49.220 vehicle is going to offset education as some of these countries have is going to reduce tax burden

00:29:54.660 like where's it going to go so you know you got to do better than that because you're about to

00:29:58.920 spend 50 billion dollars you're about to and you're and i don't think he will but quite frankly

00:30:04.340 you're about to pony up to the table you're proposing to pony up to the table for you know

00:30:09.640 you say it's between 35 and 47 we know it'll be north of 50 yeah you're about to come to the

00:30:14.760 table with over 50 billion dollars you're going to gamble it and you are gambling it because you have

00:30:20.040 no idea what your market's going to be coming out the other side yeah so that's a gamble that's a

00:30:25.480 prediction market gamble so you're going to prediction market gamble 50 billion dollars

00:30:30.040 into the marketplace a bunch of people who put the pipelines in do the engineering fees do the

00:30:35.800 all the the soft costs to get this thing right or make a lot of money so they're going to do well

00:30:41.400 the rest of canada is going to sit and wait and then you're hoping coming out the other side that

00:30:47.080 there is a market that will accept another million barrels of crude today yeah that's

00:30:52.280 yeah it just the fight yeah no one would take that game it's interesting that a guy who ran

00:30:57.400 of the bank of a country couldn't say here's the financial model for doing this because there is

00:31:04.440 no prediction that could be there's no positive prediction i don't think that could be associated

00:31:09.880 with building the pipeline well in this in this environment where quite frankly you've seen you

00:31:15.400 know how volatile it is with the middle east and everything else going on you've seen the us be

00:31:21.800 you know a hostile trading partner right you've seen all these things but yet you you feel very

00:31:26.760 confident that none of those the all those uh things will fall in your favor i don't know how

00:31:34.840 i don't know that to me that to me whereas quite frankly you've already spent the last decade

00:31:40.600 electrifying yeah setting up to for electric vehicle now there is a lot of criticized criticism

00:31:46.520 about electric vehicles i get it you know and i've been on shows i've been involved in conversations

00:31:51.960 where we talk about that our grid's not big enough we haven't done a good job at creating

00:31:56.440 charging stations like i i get all the things that we've talked about in the past i'm totally down

00:32:02.440 with all that but we spent a decade going in that direction we already did that quite frankly so now

00:32:08.680 in a very short period of time we've turned our tail we've actually now given the scuttlebutt

00:32:13.400 this came out of a province we've now come back on the other way it's just and i get why and i

00:32:21.000 get to your point it's all positioning i do it feels like a lot of positioning um okay so look

00:32:28.440 i don't want to be totally negative about the pacific link if i may just share one quick idea

00:32:33.640 sure i my suggestion is we build it on a constant um incline so that when we don't have use for oil

00:32:42.520 we could turn it into the world's largest water slide 1250 kilometers straight down to the ocean

00:32:48.280 i don't know i i don't think this goes to be honest with you paul i don't think it's even

00:32:53.560 a remote possibility it's a bit of a fairy tale it was a told for some very specific reasons of

00:32:59.000 sovereignty that i think disappear middle of next week yeah well i i can't disagree with you mike

00:33:05.640 let's see what happens and you know we're gonna look we're gonna be doing you know shows through

00:33:11.880 christmas and longer uh on this topic and i think we'll probably be talking more about electric

00:33:17.960 cars you know what i'm going out to calgary on referendum day good yeah let's go check on i

00:33:23.880 wonder how things change over the next couple of days i'd love to see you there okay and you know

00:33:28.040 the interesting part when you go so when you get there i want you to actually when you're talking

00:33:33.320 to people do they believe it's going to happen you know they actually sit there like you know

00:33:39.160 and that was the interesting thing today i don't you know i i had a conversation i didn't talk to

00:33:45.000 max about it today but quite frankly um i would have liked i missed that question i would like

00:33:50.680 to ask him does he believe it's ever going to happen i i almost guarantee you his reasonable

00:33:57.480 answer would have to be no no yeah i think so just like the referendum's not going to happen

00:34:03.320 listen join me for a uh referendum pint in calgary uh reach out to us in the messages and if you'd

00:34:09.800 like i'd be happy to chat with you and we could even post it about what your feelings are good

True Patriot Love - October 19, 2026

Canada’s Pacific Link： $50B Pipeline or Political Play？

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