True Patriot Love - What NHL General Managers Don't Tell Fans ft. Doug MacLean

00:00:00.000 forget potatoes and anti-green gables the best thing to come out of prince edward island

00:00:09.540 is doug mcclain longtime nhl coach gm and broadcaster and the author of a new book

00:00:14.600 coming out in the 20th called game day the uncensored life of an nhl gm along with greg

00:00:20.120 oliver and it's a fantastic read a must read for any hockey fan he joins us on tpl media doug how

00:00:26.740 are you my friend great jim a long time no see but uh great uh great to be on with you i appreciate

00:00:32.720 the opportunity i from start to finish i was hooked with this book because like a lot of people

00:00:39.320 in the media and hockey fans i think i know what life is like as an nhl general manager

00:00:46.380 but after reading this i realized the reality is far different for fans and media when you are

00:00:52.400 the person with all that pressure than what we think it is it's it's a lot of times it's not

00:00:58.580 fun at all it's relentless 24 7 well you know the the biggest thing about the gm job that

00:01:05.700 you know i mean i think people realize it but it's that you're the you're the guy that has to

00:01:12.180 make the call and and it's you alone you can have all the advisors you want and all the staff you

00:01:17.640 But at the end of the day, you have to make the call, whether that's firing a coach, hiring a coach, trading a player, making a big deal, cutting a guy, sending a guy to the minors, making staff change.

00:01:32.380 You're the guy that has to make the call.

00:01:36.060 And it's an amazing high when you're in that position to make it.

00:01:41.060 But it's also a pressure packed situation, you know.

00:01:44.380 And I think that's really, there's lots of aspects to the job, but the fact that you alone have to make the final decision, and I think it's like any big corporation, I guess, but that's what I found really pressure-packed, but also enjoyment of the job, you know.

00:02:06.720 And Doug, you just referenced a corporation.

00:02:08.640 And I felt this book, not only is it almost a blueprint for someone who wants to be a GM,

00:02:15.160 but a lot of the lessons and a lot of the stress that you went through the job,

00:02:20.060 it's applicable to the business world.

00:02:22.500 The buck stops with the CEO.

00:02:24.320 You're the CEO of the team, and you're the one everyone praises or blames when things go right or wrong.

00:02:30.480 Yeah, it is interesting.

00:02:32.520 And I remember chuckling every time I'd get summoned to meet with my owner and, you know,

00:02:38.940 he'd give his opinions on the team and it would be, well, my accountant said this and my barber

00:02:44.800 said this and guys at my company said this. And then we'd be sitting there, you know, and I

00:02:52.120 remember reading about Jimmy Rutherford being this great, he was tremendous at managing up,

00:02:57.880 you know, and I'm thinking I'd meet my owner for lunch at his country club. And he was 79 to 80 at

00:03:04.920 the time, Mr. McConnell, just a wonderful guy. And it would be a very important meeting about

00:03:10.600 things I had to discuss. And I'd start the conversation. He'd have his martini. He'd give

00:03:16.680 me a shot about young guys today don't drink, you know, at lunchtime, us steel guys drank.

00:03:22.520 and then as we i'd get into the the gist of the lunch i'd look and he was sound asleep at the

00:03:28.280 table and then i'd call the manager of his this was at his private country club i'd call the

00:03:34.760 manager over and say like i gotta get back to the office but tell mr mcconnell i'll i'll be back in

00:03:40.040 touch with him because he's gonna have a nap and i'm not gonna be the guy waking him up so i should

00:03:45.400 have did a better job managing up but that was my experience at managing up so anyway

00:03:53.080 a very quick favor before we continue a large percentage of you who watch or listen to tpl

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00:04:19.560 nothing keeps you informed so thank you now back to the show i mean as you outline in the book doug

00:04:26.520 you um you come from the school of hard knocks up through the hockey world to eventually leading

00:04:32.200 the florida panthers to the stanley cup final 96 and you make the transition to being a general

00:04:37.400 manager with the columbus blue jackets to me a very underrated hockey market but yeah was there

00:04:43.160 a few things as you started being a gm that you thought you knew that surprised you that you

00:04:47.800 didn't know for going from being a coach to being the gm you know i i think i i had i had coached in

00:04:55.000 florida you know for the three or four years but prior to that i had been assistant gm in detroit

00:04:59.880 for four or five years under brian murray not four or five but maybe three years i moved from

00:05:05.160 associate coach to assistant GM. And I had worked from great GMs. I'd worked for David

00:05:12.120 Poyle. I'd worked with Brian Murray for 10 years. I felt comfortable in the role, to

00:05:18.780 be quite honest. But what caught me off guard was maybe when I got there, and I had mentioned

00:05:26.240 in the book, there was a pencil or a pen on the desk and a notepad, and that was it. And

00:05:30.920 was in an office space outside of the city. And Mr. McConnell took me downtown and showed me where

00:05:37.300 the arena was going to be built. And I was there almost two years prior to starting a play. And he

00:05:44.280 said, this is where the arena is going to be built. And all of a sudden, I'm in building meetings. I'm

00:05:49.240 in meetings about corporate sales. And all of a sudden, I say to Mr. McConnell, Mr. Mac, we've

00:05:55.400 got to hire a team president here to set up our whole business side to sell suites and sell

00:06:01.400 tickets and sell corporate and do all the things, do our TV deal, our radio. And he looked at me,

00:06:07.440 he said, you can be the president too. And I'm thinking, oh my God, what just hit me here?

00:06:12.760 So it was just, it was such a bizarre situation, but an amazing experience to really, you know,

00:06:22.660 start and end up in building meetings and concession meetings and all the different

00:06:27.700 aspects of it so it was a it was a thrill of a lifetime and it was overwhelming i remember going

00:06:34.020 home to jill one day and saying hon i i i'm up to my eyeballs with problems with the building we've

00:06:40.180 got two million overrun on concessions and i you know i'm in these building meetings and i really

00:06:45.140 don't know what i'm talking about she said hey my my best girlfriend here in columbus her husband

00:06:49.860 is a is a big contractor so i phoned don mccarthy is his name and i phoned i said don and he was

00:06:55.780 working for gilbane construction out of cleveland a huge company i said don i'm in trouble here with

00:07:00.980 the blue anyway he came with me uh and joined us and came to the next meeting and and basically

00:07:09.140 saved my ass to be quite honest and is still with the blue jackets you know and now he's a consultant

00:07:15.620 and capacity but luckily i i was able to get don to to join my team and sort of get me through the 0.99

00:07:21.700 whole building process and uh it was it was really exciting and then when you start to sell season

00:07:28.820 tickets we had to sell 12 000 season tickets and seat licenses to to get the franchise we had to

00:07:35.780 have a three million dollar tv deal which was a lot of money in those days and that had to be

00:07:40.180 secured you know so there was there was so much happening but i i would never you know and i

00:07:46.980 everybody talks about the gm part but the the business and the president's side was unbelievable

00:07:54.020 but it was really now when i watch the blue jackets although i've been fired i still there's

00:07:59.380 still a special place there that i started that team and we designed the crest and we designed

00:08:04.340 the uniforms with the league and everything that went into it you know pretty amazing really

00:08:08.820 doug the one thing that i took from the book that i found fascinating is there's almost two trains

00:08:15.700 of thought being an nhl gm your amateur scouts preparing for the draft and hoping that 18 year

00:08:21.460 old kid will turn into the next sydney crosby and then your pro scouts and your your assistant gm

00:08:28.660 looking for free agents looking for trades there's almost two things trying to come together

00:08:33.860 to make the team successful yeah it really really is i mean a big you know obviously with an

00:08:39.380 expansion team the the draft was a critical part and and uh you know the amateur scouts were

00:08:45.560 important but the pro guys are every bit as important because of trades and waivers and

00:08:51.340 your minor league operations so you know both both sides and i was lucky like i had jim clark

00:08:56.660 as my assistant gm who's still uh jim's still a scout with colorado don boyd who's still director

00:09:03.420 of amateur with with ottawa i mean they i had really quality guys that were with me and it was

00:09:10.200 you know it was it was fun building it but you're right it it just and you know what it was tough

00:09:16.240 because nashville and atlanta came in to the league two previous years and then they bring

00:09:24.900 us and minnesota in together and at at the end of that four team expansion and it i mean it was

00:09:32.160 scary how how limited the talent was and and uh you know riser doug riser did a great job in

00:09:39.600 minnesota and and uh you know uh you know we we had a good couple of years to start and then it's

00:09:47.120 been then it's been a grind but it's funny how starting a franchise in a non-traditional hockey

00:09:53.360 market is is amazing and i i tell you i don't know how many luncheons i spoke at but it was

00:10:00.560 it was a selling job like i've never seen in my life and and my whole staff did it to be quite

00:10:06.240 honest it was all about selling the game of hockey in ohio we went there there was 700 kids playing

00:10:12.080 minor hockey because i knew that because my son was at nine or ten at the time and he was involved

00:10:18.320 today there's 8 000 kids playing youth hockey in columbus ohio it's it's just it's just taken off

00:10:24.000 as a hockey market so you're really proud of some of the things that have happened other than the

00:10:29.280 the product on the ice you know i i think of certain gms and they're consistently successful

00:10:35.920 like steve eisenman was great in tampa and has really struggled in detroit and it's

00:10:40.800 i think for a lot of people fans and media why are some gms able to figure it out consistently

00:10:46.960 build a winner and others are just up and down and just have a run and then they're out yeah it

00:10:52.960 really you know i'll tell you when i talked about it in the book whether people believe this or not

00:10:59.280 luck is a really important thing. You've got to get lucky. And whether it's the draft or whether

00:11:05.340 it's free agency, luck becomes a really important part of it. And I talk to George McPhee about this

00:11:14.720 often. I'll never forget phoning George and saying, hey, I had the fourth pick in the draft

00:11:20.880 and George had the first pick in Ovechkin's draft. And the first pick was Ovechkin, the second pick

00:11:26.700 was Malkin and the third pick was Cam Barker and then it dropped you know Cam Barker was considered

00:11:32.200 a top prospect so you know George wins a lottery 25 years with the Blue Jackets they've never won

00:11:39.320 one lottery you know so luck luck becomes a part of it the the lottery has made it tough

00:11:46.600 on bottom teams to to rebuild in the old days you would build through the draft because

00:11:53.500 if you finish last, you get the first pick. Steve Eisenman in nine years in Detroit never once

00:12:00.240 moved up in the draft. Never once moved up in the draft. So you need some luck, you know, to sort of,

00:12:07.240 you know, I talked to George McPhee quite often and he said, you know, Doug, I mean, seriously,

00:12:12.580 I mean, you know, I get the Vegas expansion job and the rules dramatically change from when Columbus

00:12:20.280 came in or atlanta come in so you know luck's a part of it you know and uh who knows that it but

00:12:27.000 but still there's really good hockey people and good solid people and i think when you say who

00:12:33.640 are the guys that are consistently in the mix i think it's because they're consistent they don't

00:12:40.440 have big egos and they just do their job and i and i think it says a lot about the person because

00:12:46.840 when you read this book you'll say man there's a lot of things to cover with that job um and it

00:12:53.720 and it spans it's dealing with the media is something i wish i had to do over again you

00:12:59.160 know because i you know at the end it got ugly there and i it bothers me to this day that if i

00:13:04.680 would have had the experience i gained at sportsnet when i was a gm it would have helped because

00:13:09.800 the media become unbearable almost, you know, the pressure you have on yourself from fans

00:13:18.360 and ownership. And then you get the pressure from the media that cultivates the fans. It's

00:13:26.760 you got to deal with it properly. And it's it's so easy to to see it fly away, you know,

00:13:33.960 that you don't do the job you should have done with it.

00:13:36.360 Doug, you're dealing with young men who are in their late teens, early, mid-20s,

00:13:43.020 most of them single with big money.

00:13:45.240 They can get in trouble.

00:13:46.280 I mean, that's the one thing I don't think people realize as a GM

00:13:49.220 that you're dealing with 2 a.m. phone calls from a bar owner

00:13:53.920 or maybe a police officer that one of your players are in trouble,

00:13:57.680 and that's a constant pressure that I don't think people realize.

00:14:00.960 You know what I had?

00:14:01.820 It's funny.

00:14:02.440 Greg and I talked, and I said, Greg, I got –

00:14:04.560 You know, I have my problem with being in the NHL 24 years and being a coach.

00:14:10.120 I have so many stories, it's mind-boggling.

00:14:13.060 I said, Greg, what about this?

00:14:14.480 And he said, I don't think we should tell that one.

00:14:18.680 He does because of lawsuits.

00:14:21.660 And Scott has his name on draft day, you know.

00:14:23.920 And then at the end of the day, what Simon and Schuster do,

00:14:26.700 when they go through the book, as you know from the book,

00:14:29.380 they come back and say, oh, maybe this shouldn't go.

00:14:31.700 Maybe we should rethink how we say this.

00:14:34.560 So it cut back a few of my stories, but, uh, you know, it's like Lyle Odelein just passed away.

00:14:40.440 I just got a, I just got a note from his, his wife invited me to his celebration of life.

00:14:46.980 And Lyle and I ended, I had to trade him because I was having major off ice problems and I had to

00:14:53.300 trade him. He was my captain and I had to trade him. And for a number of years, we didn't, you

00:14:58.000 know, I never heard from Lyle and all of a sudden the last five years, I started to hear from him

00:15:02.320 on a regular basis you know and I was so thrilled that we rekindled after a tough departure and

00:15:09.460 trade in Columbus and I've never ever told the reason why and I never will but now you know I'm

00:15:17.520 writing a note back to his his wife saying hey I'd love to be able to attend but I'm in Toronto

00:15:22.080 for the for the unveiling of the book but it's funny you know all the players you deal with

00:15:29.080 there's very very few that you you don't enjoy running into to be quite honest even guys you

00:15:37.080 had battles with you know which is part of it and you're like you said young kids a lot of money

00:15:42.140 you know i mean i'd get calls i had a player making five million dollars and i was getting

00:15:47.780 calls from banks in michigan that he wasn't making payments and i'm thinking like seriously

00:15:52.220 you know when you call them in and you know i had another situation where guys come into my

00:15:58.260 and said they hit a car in the parking lot.

00:16:01.900 And I got our lawyer to deal with it.

00:16:03.940 And the lawyer came down and said, Doug, we got a bit of a problem.

00:16:06.440 I said, what do you mean?

00:16:07.440 He said, they didn't just hit a parked car.

00:16:09.400 They hit nine parked cars in the parking lot.

00:16:13.140 So, you know, it was fun.

00:16:18.680 And I think one of the great stories is you got a lot of pressures at GM.

00:16:23.320 The night before our home opener, and it's in the book, where our mascot

00:16:28.260 Come in, my secretary, or Kerry, my assistant, said, Doug, Billy wants to see you.

00:16:33.300 And Billy was our mascot we had hired from the University of Wisconsin.

00:16:36.380 And I was at the tryouts on the committee to pick the mascot.

00:16:40.780 That's how bizarre it was.

00:16:43.180 And he comes in and he breaks down in my office.

00:16:46.060 And he breaks down crying.

00:16:47.540 He said, I can't handle the pressure of this job.

00:16:50.160 I just can't handle it.

00:16:51.340 And he'd been our mascot for six months before we started,

00:16:54.300 because we had him out at birthday parties and malls and all over the city.

00:16:58.260 He said, I can't take the pressure, and I'm thinking, oh my god, I got the home opener

00:17:02.880 tomorrow, and my mascot can't take the pressure, I'm in big trouble here.

00:17:08.520 So anyway, I phoned over to the Chillers, which were the suburban rinks that we owned,

00:17:13.700 and I said, is there anybody over there that can put on a costume and skate for the home

00:17:17.360 opener?

00:17:18.360 And they send a guy over, and great guy, Jason, and he was the mascot for the next 20 years

00:17:24.100 with the Blue Jackets.

00:17:25.100 So I used to run into him.

00:17:26.100 No kidding.

00:17:27.100 When I was with Sportsnet, we'd run into him when we'd do the outdoor games

00:17:31.400 and things, and he'd be there, and we'd have great chats.

00:17:35.340 So it was so much besides just player work, you know what I'm saying?

00:17:42.040 That was pretty funny.

00:17:43.640 Hey, before we go any further, please hit the subscribe button right now.

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00:17:55.480 trust me you don't want to miss what happens behind the paywall all right back to the show

00:18:00.340 the book is called game day it's an incredible book the uncensored life of the nhl gm doug mcclein

00:18:07.060 and greg oliver and doug i wanted to ask you this question because the the pressure to win

00:18:12.280 in pro sports in the nhl and the the margin for victory is so thin now between on the bubble

00:18:19.980 playoff and not playoff i wanted to ask you if you were i'm going to put you in a scenario you're

00:18:24.580 a GM now and one of those five players who were on the sexual assault trial all of a sudden were

00:18:31.840 reinstated by the league would you have tried to sign any of them that's a you know it's it's such

00:18:38.140 a a tough question and I and I I've talked to George a lot about it because they they signed

00:18:43.860 Carter Hart you know and yeah and you know I I think that the challenge for me would have been

00:18:52.580 And I know they were acquitted. I get all that. But the challenge would be, can I afford that in my fan base? With me trying to sell the game in Columbus, Ohio, where there had been minor pro hockey and very, very limited hockey, could I have taken that chance and do that?

00:19:17.680 And I would say probably not. And I, and I feel for the, I feel for, obviously, you know, I have a daughter, you feel for the victims and, you know, Adam Foote's a great friend of mine. He was my captain in Columbus and his son's career essentially is, you know, they've lost a lot, most of them have lost their career.

00:19:38.560 So I just, it's just not a, it's something I have a hard time talking about because, you know, there's so many sides to it, you know, and it's something that they, you know, it's a mistake that they'll regret the rest of, you know, obviously the rest of their lives, you know.

00:20:00.080 Doug, and I think that's where I'm going with the next question,

00:20:02.980 is that General Mandronell and your staff,

00:20:05.800 I think there's so much more knowledge and support

00:20:08.680 for that 18-, 19-year-old kid coming into the team.

00:20:11.940 Because I look at Macklin Celebrini and Matthew Schaefer

00:20:15.980 and this guy McKenna, they're actually giving him a support group

00:20:19.160 to make sure he can transition to a life with adults.

00:20:23.960 And that's not easy.

00:20:25.800 No, it sure isn't.

00:20:27.280 And I mean, you know, our PR department and our media people tried to, you know, you try to educate.

00:20:33.840 I mean, I remember Gilbert Brulé coming in as a superstar world junior and a superstar junior with Vancouver.

00:20:40.140 And we put him with the Richardsons, Luke and his family.

00:20:45.300 And they're a wonderful family.

00:20:47.120 And you know Luke, what a wonderful guy he is.

00:20:50.100 And his wife's the same.

00:20:51.320 And you try to give them as much support as you can.

00:20:56.120 But it's funny. Some guys you can give as much support to and it still doesn't change them.

00:21:02.600 And then you take another guy like Rick Nash, who I really didn't have to give any support to.

00:21:08.840 He got it. He just got it. And some kids are just internally more mature, I guess. But

00:21:16.360 you're always worried about young guys. And if the truth was known, I probably spent more time

00:21:21.960 with the older guys and i did the young guys trying to help them out of problems you know i mean

00:21:27.720 it just you just wouldn't imagine the stuff you dealt with whether it was a czech mafia

00:21:34.120 getting involved with our players in columbus or you know dealing with zherdev in russia and

00:21:40.600 jim clark's over there and he's in meetings in a warehouse dealing with the the russian mob and

00:21:46.920 And Jimmy sends me notes and said, Doug, a guy moved,

00:21:50.160 and I could see the gun underneath his jacket.

00:21:52.680 And he's in there trying to get Jared out of Russia.

00:21:56.440 So, you know, the player issues are always part of it.

00:22:03.160 But the good things way, way outweigh the negatives.

00:22:10.020 You know, there's so many positives about the job.

00:22:13.520 There's so many great things.

00:22:14.700 And I say that to my kids all the time, you know.

00:22:16.920 They were playing hockey and they'd be getting teased or at school, they might be getting teased with the Blue Jackets or about me.

00:22:22.580 And you'd have to sit them down and say, hey, look at look at what we get from this as a family.

00:22:29.040 You know, we get to enjoy the arena.

00:22:32.300 We get to enjoy watching the games.

00:22:34.220 You love Clark coming to the dressing room.

00:22:36.440 And they still to this day, the kids talk about how lucky they were.

00:22:40.340 And, you know, we had the suite and we'd invite people from PEI to come when the Rolling Stones were in town and, you know, all the perks that go with the job.

00:22:52.020 But there's so many aspects to the job and people, whether it's trading players, whether it's arbitration, whether it's dealing with the media, whether it's dealing with the referees, whether it's dealing with league issues.

00:23:03.780 There's so many aspects to the job and I tried to touch, you know, Greg and I tried to touch on so many aspects of it. And the other thing is the way it's changed in the NHL. You know, my first year in St. Louis as an assistant coach, we had nine people in the hockey operations department, including the coaches.

00:23:25.400 and today there's 70 to 100 people in hockey operas it's gotten so goofy it's unbelievable

00:23:35.100 and i know the analytics is an important department and you have so many departments

00:23:39.980 but it's changed and also the access to to gms when when i was a gm we we'd sit in the stands

00:23:48.080 and we'd talk to the media every day and they had total access to us which to this day i think now

00:23:53.540 you never get to talk to the GM.

00:23:55.900 And you might see the GM three times a year.

00:23:58.480 And I'm thinking, you know, we made ourselves so accessible

00:24:03.620 and maybe that's why some of us got in trouble, you know.

00:24:07.340 But it's changed dramatically.

00:24:08.860 Look at the Leafs with maybe 100 people in their hockey operations department.

00:24:12.860 It's mind-boggling.

00:24:13.880 Like Jimmy D, who we interviewed for the book, he said,

00:24:16.180 I walk in the Red Wings office and I go,

00:24:19.420 what the hell do all you guys do here?

00:24:21.820 so um it's funny in closing doug i want to talk about something you were quite open and honest

00:24:29.460 about is for you and any gm the job takes a personal physical tolling you but throughout

00:24:35.220 the book your wife jill is a rock star how she supported you raised the family i don't know if

00:24:42.380 you could do the job without the support of a family member like jill was to you yeah there's

00:24:47.720 no denying that she you know we've been married 49 years and uh i remember when i was dating her

00:24:53.340 her parents used to brockville ontario and i was playing junior they said oh you're you're going

00:24:58.340 it with that hockey guy and then i once i got to the nhl i became you know they kind of liked me

00:25:03.100 a little better but but you know what she was amazing with the kids and as i tell people you

00:25:09.220 know jill and i are living in our 29th house since we've been married and we would move to a new city

00:25:17.060 and we'd rent the first year then we'd buy a house the second year then I'd get fired the

00:25:22.100 third year and then we go start all over so she uh you know and our kids uh you know it it it she

00:25:30.000 she was a rock is saying it lightly and she says to me this day when we're talking about old times

00:25:37.300 and she said do you know that you were really missing in action those 10 years with respect

00:25:44.240 to the family you were really you yeah you get home if you get home to go to events and go to

00:25:49.260 games but you were really missing in action we we lost you for almost 10 years hard to believe you

00:25:56.040 know but but hey that's that's uh the give and takes of the business i cannot recommend this

00:26:03.560 book enough it comes out on the 20th of october game day the uncensored life of an nhl gm doug

00:26:09.340 mclean and greg oliver it's a must for this holiday season for any true hockey fan doug i

00:26:15.340 i had the privilege of working with you for a number of years at sports and it's one of my

00:26:19.220 career highlights and i'm so proud of you for this book and thank you so much for taking the time it

00:26:23.280 i really appreciate it my friend hey thanks a million for having me on and really appreciate

00:26:28.400 the support greg and i thank you very much

True Patriot Love - October 18, 2026

What NHL General Managers Don't Tell Fans ft. Doug MacLean

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