True Patriot Love - November 11, 2026


Carney’s $25B Wealth Fund Gets a New CEO—Will It Work？ ft. Anthony Furey

[Best of TPL] Which Supplements Actually Work—and Which Are Hype？ ft. Dr. Mark Tarnopolsky Stellantis Fallout： Is Canada Losing Its Auto Industry？

Episode Stats


Length

18 minutes

Words per minute

186.71

Word count

3,414

Sentence count

41


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00 all right so anthony sovereign wealth funds april we heard that we're actually going to get one so
00:00:11 quite frankly the canada strong fund is our first sovereign wealth fund and the interesting part is
00:00:18 mark carney our prime minister wants to put 25 billion in from the feds starter fees and he's
00:00:24 moving forward because he just uh hired the first uh ceo um karen tambour she's out of bridgewater
00:00:33 uh associates she's uh she does have canadian citizenship she was born in israel and spent
00:00:41 most of her career in the united states and now she's coming to canada uh in a big way setting up
00:00:47 canada's first sovereign wealth fund there's so much to unpack here paul and i'm looking forward
00:00:52 to your insights on it as a business businessman and entrepreneur you know where do we go here i
00:00:59 think it's very interesting a lot of this is stuff that's been talked about uh for a long time it's
00:01:03 nice to have a prime minister who is who is focused on economic growth and business development the
00:01:08 the previous prime minister was focused on you know banning plastic straws and so forth so i think
00:01:13 that this is a a much better focus since we're dealing with 10 years of of economic stagnation
00:01:19 so we're looking to looking to get our mojo back that's fantastic but recently we've just seen so
00:01:26 many announcements about the government getting involved in business all from the carny government
00:01:31 and i think one interesting kind of framing device for our discussion is this globe and mail column
00:01:36 that came out the other day that said if you want economic growth it was the headline you're gonna
00:01:41 you're gonna have to accept more uh government and business now this is behind a paywall so a lot of
00:01:46 of people on social media were just talking about the headline but so many uh deputy conservative
00:01:50 leader melissa lanceman she was posting on social media like more what are you talking about like
00:01:54 they're more involved in business than ever so where do we go from here how much more can we
00:02:00 get and i think that's that's the question here mark carney's making some some interesting uh
00:02:05 announcements about business development but we're already in a pretty uh socialized country in many
00:02:10 respects so what what's this going to be is this going to be great economic growth for the next 10
00:02:16 or 30 years or what have you and we will thank mark carney for it maybe or will it just be these
00:02:21 massive boondoggles where government's just just poking around into private affairs more than they
00:02:25 should the jury is out i don't know you know hope for the best but also prepare for the worst yeah
00:02:31 no anthony it's interesting because when cohere when they put that 1.7 billion dollars into cohere
00:02:37 i was uh the ai firm the canadian ai firm i was like oh that's good news and then i thought about
00:02:42 thought oh i don't know about that shouldn't that be private money and you know i guess the the our
00:02:48 fund our sovereign wealth fund will be making investments into things like that ai they'll be
00:02:53 making investments into other businesses and will they be small businesses i think the devil's in
00:02:58 the details now and we've seen quite frankly you know it's interesting um and i've talked about it
00:03:04 previously but um you look at kind of the do's and don'ts of sovereign wealth funds
00:03:10 so and i i always go to um norway so uh norway has a bunch of rules and they've segregated the
00:03:19 political involvement in their fund uh from the fund management so they don't they don't let the
00:03:26 politicians use the funds for whatever they want they don't let them have pet projects they only
00:03:31 allow the political bureaucracy to take I think it's three percent of the fund out a year so
00:03:39 it limits withdrawals to three percent from the fund so there's all these rules that they live by
00:03:46 and they have the transparency rules where they have to disclose every single stock bond and real
00:03:53 estate holding so there's all these you know caps and guardrails and inflation controls and also
00:04:05 foreign investment rules so they they spent a lot of time and they put guardrails in and that's why
00:04:11 it works and that's why it is kind of the one of the most successful sovereign wealth funds
00:04:17 i'm waiting right so we started this we announced this in april i was like okay same as you i'm like
00:04:23 let's wait we now waited till november you know i don't know why we wait in november but we wait
00:04:28 till november uh and we now have hired someone to start to run the fund which is to me i'm looking
00:04:34 i'm thinking okay there's that gap it's very similar to the military you know i think that
00:04:39 article you're referring to they talked a lot about military spending and also but it's very
00:04:43 interesting about military and defense spending right now you know the minister mcginty came out
00:04:49 and he made the announcement that they wanted to do all this Canada investment
00:04:53 and military, Canada first, buy Canadian from the defense perspective.
00:04:58 They went six months, didn't really buy anything,
00:05:01 and finally they said, well, I don't think we can do this.
00:05:02 We need a crown corporation to buy things.
00:05:06 And so they're now setting up a crown corporation to do procurement.
00:05:09 It's similar to this fund now.
00:05:11 So now they're about to launch this fund.
00:05:13 Okay, what are the details?
00:05:14 Because we've seen it work well in places like Norway and Singapore.
00:05:18 you know which which basically have double digit returns every year on their fund investment
00:05:24 um you know they change the economies in the u.s and the eu with their investment strategies
00:05:32 um you know the the fund actually in norway has reached 2.3 trillion dollars and the one in
00:05:40 singapore is at 1.2 trillion dollars based on basically oil a very quick favor before we
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00:06:12 keeps you informed. So thank you. Now back to the show. That's a big number, and that's a great
00:06:18 dividend payment. And the original concept of these sovereign funds is that you're taking
00:06:23 something, usually oil, and you're recognizing that it's a non-renewable resource. So if you
00:06:29 take it all out today and spend all the revenues today on the current generation, you're unfairly
00:06:35 benefiting the people alive or in their prime or what have you today, and you put it in the wealth
00:06:40 fund to benefit future generations because you only have one reserve of oil sands for however
00:06:46 many years and you want to amortize it for the future of Canada or Norway or whatnot and that
00:06:51 that makes a lot of sense and Alberta did it to a degree Peter Logheed set up a wealth fund in the
00:06:56 70s it's not in good shape now well one thing and I always go back and fact check whenever I tell
00:07:02 this story and I'm probably even gonna go back and fact check it after we do this taping because
00:07:05 whenever I tell the story I go this can't be true there's this famous picture from the year 2000 of
00:07:09 Ralph Klein, who was premier then, holding up a banner, paid in full, saying he's paid down
00:07:15 the Alberta provincial government debt. And I always go, the debt? Well, that can't be right.
00:07:20 Maybe it means he got the deficit to zero. No, it's the debt. He got the debt down to zero. Can
00:07:25 you imagine? The Canada debt is like $1.4 trillion right now, and we just keep mounting it. So that's
00:07:31 the benefits of managing a sovereign fund. This fund that the prime minister is talking about
00:07:37 putting together is not the same because we're of course not firing in all cylinders when it comes
00:07:42 to being a you know a resource economy or like a petro state like some of these other countries are
00:07:47 with with the sovereign fund so kind of what what is it i guess the idea is it's going to be
00:07:53 uh assets that have great value and recurring revenue like airport ownership and so forth
00:07:59 and that that's going to pay these dividends oh okay like i'm open to it but i i don't know
00:08:05 because you give the examples of the successful ones and they're not that model no no they're
00:08:10 not at all and most of their most of their investment quite frankly it's in ai private
00:08:15 equity and not even in their own country so you know they go abroad and they take their money and
00:08:21 like i said to the u.s other places you know it's interesting when i looked at you know i found i
00:08:26 gave those two examples of success ones but there's also several examples of countries that
00:08:31 have done it really bad you know malaysia uh basically uh worst performer over 4.5 billion
00:08:39 was embezzled leaving taxpayers on the hook for long-term debt um venezuela basically drained
00:08:45 almost uh entirely by the mid uh 2010s due to short uh terminism and corruption leaving no buffer
00:08:55 for economic collapse, so they basically sucked it dry. Oil windfalls were funding it,
00:09:01 and the executive branch used it for off-budget political spending and patronage. So, you know,
00:09:08 again, if there's no guardrails in this thing, and if we don't kind of have transparency rules,
00:09:14 you know, who knows? And then, of course, Libya, which, you know, lost $1.2 billion on complex
00:09:21 derivatives in 2008 suffered years of asset freezes and mismanagement so and these are examples of
00:09:30 what has happened to these sovereign welfare funds that haven't been controlled properly so
00:09:35 i'm hoping you know now that she's aboard now that you know that karen tambour is aboard we start to
00:09:42 see some outlines of how we're going to do this what's going to happen so we can make a judgment
00:09:48 You know, would I love this to go well?
00:09:50 And would I love it to be part of my investment strategy?
00:09:53 Yeah.
00:09:54 But, you know, it's hard right now with what we're seeing
00:09:58 is kind of manufacturing, industrialization,
00:10:01 and services being hollowed out in Canada
00:10:04 by this trade war with the U.S.
00:10:06 and no capital available to small entrepreneurs.
00:10:11 It's hard to figure out kind of how that's going to happen right now.
00:10:15 And so to your point, Anthony, what is he going to invest in?
00:10:18 Is he going to invest in more large projects?
00:10:21 So that's, and that's what worries me a little.
00:10:23 Like we have enough monopolies and oligopolies, duopolies.
00:10:27 We have all the, you know, you name it.
00:10:29 We have enough of all those actually structures in Canada.
00:10:33 We need to actually take the mid and smaller cap entrepreneurs and start to figure out a way to fund them,
00:10:41 to see them kind of advance forward and create great ideas and new companies i think you said
00:10:48 something so important there paul because we have a lot of government funds available for for very
00:10:53 small businesses if you'd like to get a fifty thousand dollar hundred thousand dollar grant
00:10:57 from the government you can get it okay great and that'll help you go a few months and hire one more
00:11:01 employee and you know good luck to you we hope you grow and then the big companies if they say oh look
00:11:05 we might go under or we might leave you need to give us 10 billion dollars it's apparently a very
00:11:11 easy check to cut a multi-billion dollar check but when we're talking mid-market companies the
00:11:15 companies that have 200 employees and they want to grow to 300 or 400 a lot of them are targets
00:11:21 for american private equity firms or whatnot where they're going to leave canada right either
00:11:26 they'll just physically leave or they'll be bought out by an american conglomerate and we've
00:11:30 effectively lost them and and i speak to a lot of business owners who feel they're in that category
00:11:34 right now and and they are growing they're doing well but the government is just kind of not really
00:11:39 interest in them and kind of ignoring them and a lot of the smart money for them and the smart
00:11:43 choices are going to the us or elsewhere so what what are we becoming like like you said are we
00:11:48 becoming we've got the the oligopolies and some big companies and then we've got sole proprietors
00:11:55 and small businesses trying to navigate between all of that i i don't know but it's an interesting
00:12:00 direction we're going in it is you know think about it we we actually you know use our public
00:12:05 our taxpayer funds to basically fund most of education you know higher education you know
00:12:13 to get get to be one of the most educated countries in the world but yet we have most of our engineers
00:12:20 and our technology people leaving the country right now to go abroad and you know so it's great
00:12:27 you know we educate a bunch of people who then turn and leave and go to another country who find
00:12:32 capital and start up great companies and and grow and expand but that's not good for us that's not
00:12:39 what we need so maybe you know and this is a recommendation maybe part of this fund the 50
00:12:45 billion dollars is actually going out and figuring out some strategies to try to get those smaller
00:12:53 mid-sized companies the capital to grow to the next level or to take that great idea and move
00:12:59 forward maybe that's something that they need to look at because quite frankly you know coming from
00:13:04 bridgewater i'm sure she's got a lot of great ideas i'm sure she's well schooled i'm sure all
00:13:08 those things um has she ever worked in a business or run a company other than have been involved in
00:13:13 financing i don't know it doesn't look like it um but it's you know the us and china they did some
00:13:20 really cool things i think that helped them and that was using um seed money or investment equity
00:13:26 uh you know small private equity companies that invested in small companies to spur uh development
00:13:33 and that you know up until the last decade or two that's gone that went really well for the
00:13:39 u.s there was easy capital for people with great ideas to access in the u.s to move forward in
00:13:44 china they they this uh they split up their banking system into smaller pieces in order to provide
00:13:50 small entrepreneurs the ability to grow you know is this is this the key moment where we take a
00:13:56 wealth fund we take a wealth fund and we actually sponsor canadians to grow businesses with the
00:14:01 gaps that are left from our tariff wars maybe that's you know and i i just want to know what
00:14:07 that is like at this point yeah and to your point you know i'm i'm hopeful this is a good thing
00:14:12 i would really like the details now because tell me in april it's happening wait to november to
00:14:18 get a person aboard are we waiting to next year to tell us what the fund is that's a long time
00:14:23 anthony even even the time frame doesn't seem realistic and then that's the that i think the
00:14:29 knock on you know the the prime minister's getting on a plane and he's about to fly to five or six
00:14:36 different nations the philippines china you know he's going all over i would like him to figure
00:14:42 this out quicker you know get this up and running because canadians are could use those funds hey
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00:15:00 membership trust me you don't want to miss what happens behind the paywall all right back to the
00:15:05 show well yeah what's the play here with all these new government agencies it seems like and again i
00:15:10 don't mean this as some sort of petty remark but are you trying to turn the canadian government
00:15:15 into brookfield well you were already at brookfield brookfield's good at being brookfield let them do
00:15:19 their thing let them be be what they're doing if you wanted to run brookfield you already were
00:15:24 so you could have stayed there i i get the idea that we like having a more economist-minded a
00:15:29 more banking-minded prime minister in the office and he's bringing those values that's great but
00:15:34 should we just be trying to to have canada have the federal government and its agencies be those
00:15:40 institutions and by creating those institutions are we are we crowding out private capital because
00:15:46 then we're not chasing returns we're actually chasing government policy in all of this like
00:15:52 with the the cohere payment i had the same response as you okay good for them they're raising money
00:15:56 but then you go well what does this actually mean and is this even a good look for them
00:16:00 so it's a 1.8 or 1.7 billion dollar investment you go how did they allocate that that piece of
00:16:06 the pie because the silicon valley banks know about these investment opportunities before
00:16:10 anybody else has silicon valley looked at this company and said nope not a good investment
00:16:15 or did something else happen but mark carney reserve a space in the investment capitalization
00:16:21 table if he did like why what terms are we getting like it you know it just creates a
00:16:26 lot of questions here what's someone is not getting a good deal here either the federal
00:16:31 government or cohere is not getting a good deal here and why right yeah the the market cap on
00:16:37 that company i think is something like 35 billion so again those are all the questions that come to
00:16:43 my mind how was the valuation done how did they figure it out you know and then what equity
00:16:48 component did we get for this the cash those are the things we need to do and those are the guard
00:16:53 rails that need to be in place that have the the formulas that will tell them as a fund managers
00:17:00 how to invest their monies for canadians and i think that's what that's what i'm waiting to find
00:17:04 and were there other things in there like you must create x number of jobs in canada and so forth
00:17:10 but in that case that's not investment banking that's that's politics that's government so why
00:17:16 is this going on and cohere are they just going to walk away one day and say well it doesn't work
00:17:19 for us is it just like another stelantis deal well exactly i was just going to say that stelco and
00:17:23 stelantis we're about to do a show next on it today in a few hours and quite frankly you know
00:17:29 melanie jolie is sitting there on the hot seat right now and they're asking her all kinds of
00:17:33 questions and you know she looks like quite frankly she's going to cry at points there's
00:17:37 no answers right what why did that money go out what was it for what were the commitments and you
00:17:42 know why don't you just disclose it and and those are the things that make you nervous but i'm still
00:17:48 hopeful this comes around and it is positive i would have loved to seen this sovereign wealth
00:17:53 fund anthony happen in 1980 and taken our oil reserves and done some really cool things like
00:17:58 norway i still think we have a hope to do that let's see and and i think us asking these questions
00:18:04 that's what any any responsible investor would do and as canadian taxpayers looking at this we're
00:18:10 we're the investors you got it thanks anthony thanks paul