Verdict with Ted Cruz - October 25, 2025


Christian Persecution in Nigeria, Communist Crackdown on Christians in China & Senator Cruz Spied On Week In Review


Episode Stats

Length

37 minutes

Words per Minute

165.71544

Word Count

6,291

Sentence Count

395

Misogynist Sentences

9

Hate Speech Sentences

71


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.660 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.460 Welcome, it is Verdict with Ted Cruz,
00:00:07.580 the week in review, Ben Ferguson with you,
00:00:09.960 and here are some big stories
00:00:11.040 that you may have missed that we talked about.
00:00:13.240 First up, the killing of Christians in Nigeria
00:00:16.300 is happening at a shocking rate.
00:00:18.820 The media and the world not talking about it.
00:00:21.260 We're gonna shine a light on it
00:00:22.560 and make sure that you know what you can do to help.
00:00:25.580 Also, there is a crackdown on Christians in China.
00:00:30.000 Why is this happening around the world?
00:00:32.420 We'll give you the details on that
00:00:33.720 and how we can also use our U.S. government to help stop it.
00:00:38.080 And finally, we now know what the Biden administration
00:00:40.480 was doing when it comes to spying on conservatives,
00:00:44.640 including even more members of Congress.
00:00:47.820 This time, they asked for the phone records
00:00:50.760 and text messages of Senator Ted Cruz.
00:00:54.340 It's the week in review, and it starts right now.
00:00:57.880 And I wanna move now, Senator.
00:01:00.000 To something that you've been spearheading and leading on,
00:01:02.920 it's certainly not getting attention to the media.
00:01:05.220 But you're wanting to hold Nigeria accountable
00:01:07.960 for the 50,000, let me say that number again,
00:01:12.040 50,000 Christians that have been killed there.
00:01:16.380 Explain why this story is so important
00:01:19.200 and what you're trying to do,
00:01:20.600 and also, why is no one covering this
00:01:23.000 as it's been described to me?
00:01:24.240 Look, it is truly horrific.
00:01:27.040 The numbers are stunning.
00:01:29.020 The numbers are staggering.
00:01:30.660 Here are the top-line numbers of what we're seeing.
00:01:34.640 We have seen over 50,000 Christians killed.
00:01:39.620 We have seen over 18,000 churches
00:01:44.040 and at least 2,000 schools burned.
00:01:48.420 And the response to this,
00:01:52.040 the Nigerian government is fighting back ferociously,
00:01:55.940 saying, this is not happening.
00:01:57.500 This is not true.
00:01:58.520 There's a battle.
00:01:59.380 The Nigerian government officials are getting very angry
00:02:01.340 that I'm calling them out.
00:02:02.880 I want to read to you
00:02:04.580 from the executive summary
00:02:06.860 of the U.S. State Department's
00:02:08.960 2024 country report
00:02:10.780 on human rights practices in Nigeria.
00:02:12.660 And here's what it says.
00:02:16.200 Quote,
00:02:16.740 Significant human rights issues
00:02:18.440 included credible reports
00:02:19.880 of arbitrary and unlawful killings,
00:02:22.820 disappearances,
00:02:24.420 torture,
00:02:25.360 or cruel, inhuman,
00:02:26.900 or degrading treatment or punishment,
00:02:29.560 arbitrary arrest or detention,
00:02:32.220 serious abuses in a conflict,
00:02:34.820 serious restrictions on freedom of expression
00:02:36.920 and media freedom,
00:02:37.960 including violence or threats of violence
00:02:39.780 against journalists,
00:02:40.660 violence or threats
00:02:42.580 against labor activists
00:02:43.840 or union members,
00:02:45.420 and significant presence
00:02:46.840 of any of the worst forms
00:02:48.640 of child labor.
00:02:50.700 Non-state actors committed
00:02:51.900 arbitrary and unlawful killings,
00:02:53.440 disappearances,
00:02:54.200 physical abuse,
00:02:55.060 and other mistreatments.
00:02:57.040 Boko Haram
00:02:57.780 and the Islamic State in West Africa
00:03:00.280 continued attacks on civilians,
00:03:03.280 military, police,
00:03:05.040 humanitarian,
00:03:06.160 and religious targets,
00:03:07.300 unlawfully recruited
00:03:09.440 and forcibly conscripted
00:03:11.980 child soldiers
00:03:13.380 and carried out scores of attacks
00:03:16.140 on population centers
00:03:17.460 in the northeast regions.
00:03:20.000 Abductions by Boko Haram
00:03:21.560 and the Islamic State
00:03:22.680 in West Africa continued.
00:03:25.180 Both groups subjected
00:03:26.320 many women and girls
00:03:28.080 to gender-based violence,
00:03:31.040 including forced marriage,
00:03:33.600 sexual slavery,
00:03:34.560 and rape.
00:03:36.740 This is what's going on
00:03:38.700 in Nigeria right now.
00:03:41.120 And it is going on
00:03:42.800 far too often
00:03:43.700 with the acquiescence
00:03:46.420 of the elected government officials.
00:03:50.280 Far too often,
00:03:52.120 and in some instances,
00:03:54.540 you have provinces in Nigeria
00:03:57.240 that have on the books
00:03:59.200 blasphemy law
00:04:00.980 and Sharia law.
00:04:03.320 And they will prosecute
00:04:04.800 Christians for blasphemy.
00:04:07.240 They will prosecute Christians
00:04:08.940 for violating Sharia law,
00:04:10.740 in which case the government
00:04:12.220 becomes a tool
00:04:13.540 of the persecution
00:04:15.240 of Christians.
00:04:17.060 And look,
00:04:18.680 it is devastating.
00:04:22.440 It is the most Christians
00:04:25.000 being murdered anywhere
00:04:26.120 on the face of the planet
00:04:27.160 is happening in Nigeria.
00:04:30.540 And so,
00:04:32.220 I introduced legislation
00:04:33.900 to require the Secretary of State
00:04:36.760 to designate Nigeria
00:04:38.100 as a country
00:04:38.900 of particular concern
00:04:40.040 and to impose sanctions,
00:04:43.120 including in particular
00:04:44.420 sanctioning the individual
00:04:45.960 government officials.
00:04:46.840 So if you're a local official
00:04:48.440 and you're enforcing
00:04:49.480 blasphemy laws
00:04:50.320 and Sharia laws
00:04:51.100 and you're persecuting
00:04:52.140 Christians
00:04:52.920 or you're turning
00:04:53.960 the other way
00:04:54.680 and turning a blind eye
00:04:56.980 to Christians
00:04:57.920 being murdered
00:04:58.700 in mass numbers,
00:05:00.540 the result
00:05:02.900 of my legislation
00:05:03.880 would be
00:05:04.540 each of those
00:05:05.400 individual government
00:05:06.880 officials would face sanctions.
00:05:08.420 And I've got to say,
00:05:09.420 the Nigerian government
00:05:10.460 has been pushing back
00:05:11.760 ferociously.
00:05:13.680 For example,
00:05:14.400 the chairman
00:05:14.820 of the House Committee
00:05:15.580 on Foreign Affairs,
00:05:18.080 Oluwole Oke,
00:05:20.020 said the cruise bill
00:05:21.100 is, quote,
00:05:21.940 a deliberate attempt
00:05:22.820 to damage
00:05:23.380 the Nigerian image.
00:05:24.780 And he insists,
00:05:26.580 Nigeria is a very
00:05:28.280 tolerant country.
00:05:29.700 Well,
00:05:30.140 other than murdering
00:05:31.140 50,000 Christians.
00:05:32.100 Very tolerant
00:05:32.520 other than that.
00:05:34.060 Likewise,
00:05:34.880 the Minister of Information
00:05:35.940 and National Orientation,
00:05:37.360 Mohamed Idris,
00:05:39.140 rejected the suggestion
00:05:41.180 that, quote,
00:05:42.580 any Nigerian officials
00:05:43.980 will willingly,
00:05:44.940 deliberately indulge
00:05:45.880 in the act
00:05:46.340 of siding with
00:05:46.960 violent extremists
00:05:47.820 to target any particular
00:05:49.280 religion in the country.
00:05:51.000 Likewise,
00:05:53.040 presidential spokesperson
00:05:54.140 Baya Onanungo
00:05:56.240 demanded that Cruz
00:05:59.060 stop his, quote,
00:06:00.780 malicious and contrived lies
00:06:04.020 against, quote,
00:06:05.640 my country.
00:06:07.160 And finally,
00:06:08.060 Senate President
00:06:08.880 Godzwill Aqpabio
00:06:11.500 cautioned against
00:06:13.780 framing the crisis,
00:06:15.800 quote,
00:06:16.620 along religious lines
00:06:18.940 since, quote,
00:06:20.360 terrorists and bandits
00:06:22.080 target Nigerians
00:06:23.280 indiscriminately
00:06:24.300 regardless of faith.
00:06:26.000 Now, listen,
00:06:26.500 it is certainly true
00:06:27.420 that Boko Haram
00:06:28.940 and other religious
00:06:29.940 radicals in Nigeria
00:06:31.140 are killing Muslims
00:06:32.020 as well.
00:06:32.600 They are killing both.
00:06:34.020 But they are
00:06:34.740 systematically targeting
00:06:36.320 Christians for mass murder.
00:06:37.800 When you've got
00:06:38.440 50,000 Christians
00:06:39.800 being murdered,
00:06:40.820 that is not accidental,
00:06:42.140 that is not random.
00:06:43.460 And the over
00:06:44.220 18,000 churches
00:06:45.460 and the over
00:06:45.960 2,000 schools,
00:06:47.180 they are singling out
00:06:48.380 and targeting
00:06:48.900 Christian churches
00:06:49.840 and Christian schools
00:06:51.380 and burning them
00:06:52.640 to the ground.
00:06:53.780 And the government
00:06:55.080 of Nigeria
00:06:56.080 is not acting
00:06:57.220 with any vigor
00:06:59.800 at all
00:07:00.320 to defend
00:07:01.100 and to defend
00:07:02.680 the Christians
00:07:03.140 or just to keep
00:07:03.760 them alive.
00:07:04.820 Yeah, to keep
00:07:05.760 them alive.
00:07:06.400 And so now,
00:07:07.860 obviously,
00:07:08.620 this is about
00:07:09.320 letting it,
00:07:10.200 shining a light
00:07:10.760 on this.
00:07:11.300 And then you go back
00:07:12.520 to the policy
00:07:13.420 aspect of this.
00:07:14.720 What happens next?
00:07:15.880 And for people
00:07:16.500 specifically that are
00:07:17.560 listening,
00:07:18.280 what do they need
00:07:19.100 to be doing
00:07:19.560 and advocating
00:07:20.120 for to make sure
00:07:20.840 that we can
00:07:21.280 move this forward?
00:07:23.940 Look,
00:07:24.580 the next step
00:07:26.700 needs to be
00:07:27.520 that I'm pushing
00:07:28.920 for Congress
00:07:30.040 to pass my legislation.
00:07:31.440 I'm on the Senate
00:07:32.160 Foreign Relations
00:07:32.860 Committee,
00:07:33.340 so I'm pressing
00:07:33.860 for the Senate
00:07:34.340 Foreign Relations
00:07:35.040 Committee
00:07:35.340 to take it up.
00:07:36.860 That would
00:07:37.640 designate Nigeria
00:07:39.120 as a country
00:07:39.960 of particular concern.
00:07:41.120 Now, I would note
00:07:41.780 the Trump administration
00:07:42.800 can do so
00:07:43.640 on its own,
00:07:44.260 and this is often
00:07:44.840 the case
00:07:45.240 in foreign policy
00:07:45.980 areas,
00:07:46.800 where I'll introduce
00:07:47.560 legislation and I'll
00:07:48.580 push for action.
00:07:50.020 So, for example,
00:07:51.380 I've introduced
00:07:51.960 legislation to
00:07:53.080 designate the
00:07:53.740 Muslim Brotherhood
00:07:54.440 as a terrorist
00:07:55.040 organization.
00:07:55.720 I've done so
00:07:56.440 repeatedly in
00:07:57.220 multiple Congresses.
00:07:58.260 I think it is
00:07:58.660 unequivocally a
00:08:00.120 terrorist organization.
00:08:01.300 In fact, Hamas
00:08:02.260 is a branch of
00:08:03.800 the Muslim Brotherhood.
00:08:04.780 Hamas is the
00:08:05.800 Muslim Brotherhood
00:08:06.760 in Palestine,
00:08:08.820 is what they call
00:08:09.900 themselves.
00:08:11.160 And that has not
00:08:12.580 yet happened,
00:08:13.440 but I would
00:08:14.580 like to see
00:08:15.140 Congress pass
00:08:15.740 my legislation,
00:08:16.600 but the most
00:08:16.980 likely way we'll
00:08:17.940 get the Muslim
00:08:18.500 Brotherhood designated
00:08:19.360 is that I will
00:08:20.720 succeed in convincing
00:08:21.780 President Trump
00:08:22.560 and the Trump
00:08:22.980 administration to
00:08:23.780 do so.
00:08:24.160 And I've been
00:08:24.500 making that case
00:08:25.520 vigorously.
00:08:26.340 With respect to
00:08:26.940 Nigeria, the same
00:08:28.200 thing is true.
00:08:28.800 I'm going to try
00:08:29.260 to pass the
00:08:29.820 legislation, but I'm
00:08:30.820 also very much
00:08:31.620 making the case
00:08:32.360 to the Trump
00:08:32.840 administration.
00:08:34.100 They have the
00:08:34.760 authority to do
00:08:35.460 it now.
00:08:36.400 And look, I want
00:08:37.700 to point out, you
00:08:38.300 asked what people
00:08:38.900 can do.
00:08:39.520 Speak out,
00:08:40.240 highlight 50,000
00:08:41.360 Christians massacred
00:08:42.860 since 2009, the
00:08:44.960 single greatest
00:08:45.920 mass slaughter of
00:08:46.860 Christians anywhere
00:08:47.740 in the world.
00:08:50.660 And look, here's
00:08:51.740 how Fox News put
00:08:52.620 it, quote, a
00:08:53.780 diplomatic battle
00:08:54.600 is being waged
00:08:55.380 between leading
00:08:56.000 Republican Senator
00:08:56.820 Ted Cruz and
00:08:57.580 Nigerian government
00:08:58.380 officials.
00:08:59.340 The Texas
00:08:59.780 senators has
00:09:00.460 warned he will
00:09:01.160 hold them
00:09:01.540 accountable for
00:09:02.180 the reported
00:09:02.700 mass slaughter
00:09:03.540 of tens of
00:09:04.280 thousands of
00:09:04.820 Christians in
00:09:05.320 Nigeria.
00:09:06.220 The officials
00:09:06.980 say Cruz is
00:09:07.700 lying, with one
00:09:08.520 claiming that
00:09:09.080 despite even the
00:09:10.220 Pope publicly
00:09:11.600 calling out the
00:09:12.300 killings, there
00:09:13.420 is religious
00:09:14.100 harmony in the
00:09:15.400 country.
00:09:15.900 But you know
00:09:16.280 what?
00:09:17.360 Maybe you don't
00:09:17.980 believe me.
00:09:19.220 Maybe you don't
00:09:19.860 believe the
00:09:20.580 Pope.
00:09:21.680 So if the Pope
00:09:23.700 and I are both
00:09:24.360 wrong, how about
00:09:25.880 this?
00:09:26.400 Maybe, maybe
00:09:27.520 you'll believe
00:09:28.700 Bill Maher.
00:09:29.600 Give a listen to
00:09:30.200 what Bill Maher
00:09:30.780 had to say on
00:09:31.320 this topic.
00:09:32.000 If you don't
00:09:32.600 know what's
00:09:32.900 going on in
00:09:33.340 Nigeria, your
00:09:34.760 media sources
00:09:35.640 suck.
00:09:36.980 You are in a
00:09:38.140 bubble.
00:09:38.360 And again, I'm
00:09:40.100 not a Christian,
00:09:41.040 but they are
00:09:41.620 systematically killing
00:09:42.960 the Christians in
00:09:43.760 Nigeria.
00:09:44.120 They've killed over
00:09:45.240 100,000 since
00:09:46.500 2009.
00:09:47.380 They've burned
00:09:47.820 18,000 churches.
00:09:49.540 This is so much
00:09:50.260 more.
00:09:50.840 These are the
00:09:51.240 Islamists, Boko
00:09:52.160 Harem.
00:09:52.880 This is so much
00:09:53.680 more of a genocide
00:09:54.980 attempt than what
00:09:56.400 is going on in
00:09:57.200 Gaza.
00:09:57.520 They are literally
00:09:58.260 attempting to wipe
00:09:59.400 out the Christian
00:10:00.500 population of an
00:10:01.840 entire country.
00:10:02.940 Where are the
00:10:03.460 kids protesting
00:10:04.260 this?
00:10:05.700 Thank you.
00:10:07.680 No one will
00:10:08.520 talk about it,
00:10:09.100 so thank you.
00:10:10.600 Absolutely.
00:10:12.940 It's Africa,
00:10:13.800 that's why.
00:10:14.060 No one's talking
00:10:14.600 about it, and
00:10:15.120 they should be.
00:10:15.680 You can't read
00:10:16.080 about it on
00:10:16.460 mainstream media.
00:10:17.520 It's sad, so
00:10:18.040 thank you for
00:10:18.420 bringing it up.
00:10:18.540 Well, because the
00:10:19.080 Jews aren't
00:10:19.540 involved.
00:10:20.540 That's why.
00:10:21.720 It's the
00:10:22.260 Christians and
00:10:22.780 the Muslims
00:10:23.220 who cares.
00:10:24.260 He is exactly
00:10:25.500 right, and I
00:10:26.380 appreciate Bill
00:10:27.280 Maher calling it
00:10:28.420 out and shining a
00:10:29.700 light on it.
00:10:30.820 He's right that
00:10:31.860 the corporate media
00:10:33.100 does not want to
00:10:33.900 cover it, and by
00:10:34.600 the way, on that
00:10:36.060 same show, someone
00:10:38.000 you know well, Van
00:10:39.200 Jones from CNN, he
00:10:41.220 was on that show, and
00:10:42.540 Van Jones is a very
00:10:44.540 left-wing guy, and
00:10:45.560 he's on CNN
00:10:46.120 regularly, but he
00:10:47.340 commented and he
00:10:48.760 chimed in agreeing
00:10:50.680 with Bill Maher.
00:10:51.500 Here, give a listen
00:10:52.080 to Van Jones talking
00:10:53.320 about the slaughter
00:10:54.460 of Christians in
00:10:55.740 Nigeria.
00:10:56.660 You're talking
00:10:57.000 about young people.
00:10:57.660 A lot of them
00:10:58.100 seem to know one
00:10:58.840 thing.
00:10:59.140 White people did
00:10:59.840 some very bad
00:11:00.500 things in this
00:11:01.080 world, and they
00:11:01.620 certainly did.
00:11:02.320 But there are
00:11:03.180 other things to
00:11:03.840 know.
00:11:04.180 Yes.
00:11:04.980 Including the fact
00:11:06.720 that in Sudan
00:11:07.580 right now, which
00:11:08.320 nobody is talking
00:11:09.080 about, you have
00:11:09.880 Arab militia
00:11:11.020 murdering people
00:11:11.860 by the wheel
00:11:12.380 barrel, including
00:11:13.160 the fact that
00:11:13.560 Africa right now
00:11:14.240 is being overrun
00:11:15.060 by Islamist
00:11:15.800 terrorists, including
00:11:16.600 Boko Haram, with
00:11:17.600 no conversation
00:11:18.400 about that at
00:11:18.840 all.
00:11:19.160 I did it last
00:11:20.260 week.
00:11:21.600 Nigeria.
00:11:22.320 I mean, this
00:11:23.020 is an actual
00:11:23.820 planned genocide.
00:11:25.360 Yes.
00:11:25.700 I mean, they
00:11:26.040 really want to
00:11:26.860 kill all the
00:11:27.560 Christians in that
00:11:28.300 country, and they
00:11:29.200 are systematically
00:11:29.860 doing it.
00:11:30.720 And the fact
00:11:31.160 that there's
00:11:31.540 almost no
00:11:32.200 response from
00:11:32.760 the global
00:11:33.120 left and no
00:11:34.020 attention from
00:11:34.960 mainstream media
00:11:35.980 is a crime
00:11:36.820 against African
00:11:37.900 people, black
00:11:38.520 people, and
00:11:39.060 human rights.
00:11:39.600 I agree with
00:11:40.000 that 100%.
00:11:40.740 It turns out
00:11:41.980 that there's a
00:11:43.860 double standard
00:11:44.360 for Jews.
00:11:45.400 That is true.
00:11:47.680 No Jews, no
00:11:48.680 news.
00:11:49.380 As long as you
00:11:50.160 can put the
00:11:50.660 Jewish state in
00:11:51.620 the conversation,
00:11:52.220 it's going to
00:11:52.460 be a big
00:11:52.780 conversation.
00:11:53.180 If you can't,
00:11:54.400 you get no
00:11:55.280 attention at all.
00:11:56.080 This is a big
00:11:56.680 problem.
00:11:57.080 It is a big
00:11:58.480 problem.
00:11:58.960 I mean, you
00:11:59.360 hear Van Jones
00:12:00.120 saying it.
00:12:00.920 He is correct.
00:12:01.980 It is a huge
00:12:02.840 problem.
00:12:03.880 No Jews, no
00:12:04.880 news.
00:12:05.380 I mean, it's
00:12:06.680 amazing that this
00:12:07.640 is happening.
00:12:08.780 Look, we see the
00:12:10.920 protests on college
00:12:11.860 campuses.
00:12:12.660 We see these
00:12:13.560 angry leftists who
00:12:14.740 are completely
00:12:15.440 enraged about
00:12:16.200 Gaza.
00:12:17.260 The instant
00:12:18.080 President Trump
00:12:18.860 negotiates a peace
00:12:19.840 deal, they go
00:12:21.280 away.
00:12:21.700 Now, Hamas is
00:12:22.520 executing Palestinians
00:12:23.760 on the street,
00:12:24.720 lighting up
00:12:25.140 Palestinians on
00:12:25.960 their knees,
00:12:26.440 shooting them in
00:12:26.900 the back of the
00:12:27.400 head, and not
00:12:28.360 a peep.
00:12:28.840 These leftist
00:12:29.460 radicals, they
00:12:30.240 are perfectly
00:12:30.940 fine with
00:12:32.180 Palestinians being
00:12:33.340 systematically murdered
00:12:34.640 as long as it's
00:12:35.440 Palestinians.
00:12:36.080 As long as Hamas
00:12:37.200 is doing the
00:12:37.620 murder, you don't
00:12:38.800 see a protest, you
00:12:39.780 don't see any
00:12:41.140 calls a genocide.
00:12:42.720 Their protest is
00:12:43.920 about one thing,
00:12:44.920 which is they hate
00:12:45.640 Israel and they
00:12:46.380 hate Jews.
00:12:47.680 And I've got to
00:12:48.460 say, where is
00:12:50.060 ABC, where is
00:12:51.080 CBS, where is
00:12:52.160 NBC, where is
00:12:53.460 CNN and
00:12:53.980 MSNBC, where's
00:12:55.040 the New York
00:12:55.380 Times, where's
00:12:56.020 the Washington
00:12:56.460 Post, about the
00:12:59.080 mass murder of
00:13:00.160 over 50,000
00:13:01.520 Christians in
00:13:02.460 Nigeria?
00:13:03.240 Now, if you
00:13:03.680 want to hear the
00:13:04.340 rest of this
00:13:04.960 conversation, you
00:13:05.980 can go back and
00:13:06.820 listen to the
00:13:07.340 full podcast from
00:13:08.480 earlier this week.
00:13:10.200 Canadian women
00:13:11.020 are looking for
00:13:11.720 more, more out of
00:13:12.720 themselves, their
00:13:13.540 businesses, their
00:13:14.480 elected leaders, and
00:13:15.580 the world around
00:13:16.160 them.
00:13:16.540 And that's why
00:13:16.980 we're thrilled to
00:13:17.680 introduce the
00:13:18.520 Honest Talk
00:13:19.180 podcast.
00:13:20.260 I'm Jennifer
00:13:20.780 Stewart.
00:13:21.440 And I'm
00:13:21.760 Catherine Clark.
00:13:22.400 And in this
00:13:23.140 podcast, we
00:13:23.960 interview Canada's
00:13:24.780 most inspiring
00:13:25.640 women, entrepreneurs,
00:13:27.120 artists, athletes,
00:13:28.400 politicians, and
00:13:29.240 newsmakers, all at
00:13:30.400 different stages of
00:13:31.320 their journey.
00:13:32.180 So if you're looking
00:13:33.180 to connect, then we
00:13:34.220 hope you'll join us.
00:13:35.400 Listen to the
00:13:35.820 Honest Talk podcast
00:13:36.780 on iHeartRadio or
00:13:38.000 wherever you listen to
00:13:38.860 your podcasts.
00:13:41.240 Now on to story
00:13:42.380 number two.
00:13:43.460 Senator, it's time
00:13:44.340 for us to talk
00:13:44.920 about China.
00:13:45.760 And a lot of
00:13:46.300 people are talking
00:13:46.760 about the economic
00:13:47.640 issues with China,
00:13:48.980 sanctions and
00:13:49.920 tariffs.
00:13:50.600 The subject we're
00:13:52.240 about to talk
00:13:52.760 about is one I
00:13:53.400 hope people share
00:13:54.260 everywhere on social
00:13:55.300 media.
00:13:56.100 This is why we do
00:13:56.860 this show and it's
00:13:57.460 so important.
00:13:58.600 And this is what's
00:13:59.980 happening in China
00:14:00.760 cracking down on
00:14:02.400 Christianity right
00:14:03.280 now and is not
00:14:04.640 being talked about
00:14:05.420 enough.
00:14:06.940 Well, communist
00:14:08.140 China has a
00:14:08.980 terrible record when
00:14:09.960 it comes to
00:14:10.600 religious liberty
00:14:11.260 and religious
00:14:12.080 persecution.
00:14:12.620 And in
00:14:13.260 particular, the
00:14:14.500 persecution of
00:14:15.240 Christians.
00:14:15.620 China has for
00:14:17.560 decades persecuted
00:14:18.980 Christians in
00:14:19.920 China.
00:14:20.980 But recently, they've
00:14:22.520 been cracking down
00:14:23.340 and it's been
00:14:23.800 getting worse.
00:14:25.560 So here's how I
00:14:26.800 put it to Fox
00:14:27.640 News this week.
00:14:29.000 The Chinese
00:14:30.040 Communist Party is
00:14:31.080 conducting yet
00:14:31.800 another sweeping
00:14:32.800 crackdown on
00:14:33.840 Christians.
00:14:34.860 And they're again
00:14:35.920 targeting Pastor
00:14:36.940 Jin and the
00:14:38.200 Zion Church.
00:14:39.540 The CCP fears
00:14:41.140 anything it cannot
00:14:42.260 directly control.
00:14:43.400 perhaps most of
00:14:45.360 all, faith.
00:14:47.420 The United States
00:14:48.480 has powerful tools
00:14:49.780 to provide protection
00:14:50.840 and relief to
00:14:52.360 people facing
00:14:53.060 persecution and
00:14:54.000 violence.
00:14:54.720 And we should use
00:14:56.100 those tools unless
00:14:57.800 and until China
00:14:59.580 releases the members
00:15:00.700 of the Zion
00:15:01.240 Church.
00:15:02.320 And what has
00:15:03.280 happened is China
00:15:04.720 arrested several
00:15:06.080 Christian leaders,
00:15:07.900 including the
00:15:08.760 pastor of one of
00:15:09.640 the country's
00:15:10.180 biggest underground
00:15:11.700 evangelical churches.
00:15:13.400 churches, and
00:15:13.700 that's Pastor
00:15:14.320 Jin Mingri, whose
00:15:17.080 children are U.S.
00:15:18.220 citizens.
00:15:19.940 Grace Jin, who is
00:15:21.420 Mingri's daughter,
00:15:23.460 was very kind, but
00:15:25.680 went out of her
00:15:26.500 way to thank me for
00:15:27.960 fighting to release
00:15:29.080 her father from
00:15:30.780 prison.
00:15:31.340 And here's what
00:15:32.160 Grace Jin said.
00:15:32.980 She said, quote,
00:15:34.320 His efforts
00:15:35.180 demonstrate that the
00:15:36.100 world is watching
00:15:36.940 on as the Chinese
00:15:38.680 government unjustly
00:15:40.220 imprisons pastors
00:15:41.360 leaders and church
00:15:42.540 leaders for the
00:15:43.840 peaceful exercise of
00:15:45.260 their faith.
00:15:46.380 Thank you to the
00:15:47.340 leaders here and
00:15:48.120 abroad for all the
00:15:49.100 support and
00:15:50.380 solidarity.
00:15:51.900 And Senator, this
00:15:52.980 is, I think, the
00:15:53.760 part that's so
00:15:54.440 frustrating for me
00:15:55.440 and so many
00:15:55.980 listening is, this
00:15:57.260 has been happening
00:15:57.940 for so long, and
00:15:59.220 because so many
00:16:00.240 countries do business
00:16:01.200 with China, they
00:16:02.460 have deliberately
00:16:03.720 looked the other
00:16:04.540 way because they're
00:16:06.180 basically saying,
00:16:06.980 hey, we'd rather
00:16:07.460 just get along and
00:16:08.180 do trade and get
00:16:09.880 cheap Chinese goods
00:16:10.720 that actually hold
00:16:11.360 them account for
00:16:11.960 what they're doing
00:16:12.440 to Christians.
00:16:13.940 Well, that's
00:16:14.700 happening far too
00:16:15.560 often, and we've
00:16:16.240 discussed before in
00:16:17.040 this podcast the
00:16:18.740 persecution, the mass
00:16:19.840 murder of Christians
00:16:20.620 in Nigeria.
00:16:21.740 Nigeria, the most
00:16:22.820 Christians are
00:16:23.600 murdered for their
00:16:24.340 faith of any country
00:16:25.160 on earth, and I've
00:16:25.920 been leading the
00:16:26.560 effort to hold
00:16:27.680 Nigeria to account.
00:16:29.300 Well, in China,
00:16:30.160 likewise, for my
00:16:31.280 entire time in the
00:16:32.080 Senate, I've been
00:16:32.640 vocal speaking out for
00:16:33.760 Christians being
00:16:34.440 persecuted in China.
00:16:36.180 And this crackdown,
00:16:37.720 actually, next week,
00:16:38.920 President Trump is
00:16:40.520 going to Asia and
00:16:41.840 is going to meet
00:16:43.160 with President Xi
00:16:44.560 of China.
00:16:45.760 And so just this
00:16:47.200 past week, I
00:16:48.220 introduced a
00:16:49.000 bipartisan resolution
00:16:50.400 condemning China's
00:16:52.640 persecution of
00:16:54.720 Christians in
00:16:55.600 particular and
00:16:56.380 Pastor Jin.
00:16:57.200 And I was joined
00:16:59.040 by Chris Coons.
00:16:59.960 Chris is a
00:17:00.440 Democrat, and Chris
00:17:02.980 is someone who
00:17:03.740 cares deeply about
00:17:05.040 religious liberty.
00:17:06.000 And so we joined
00:17:06.760 together with a
00:17:07.420 bipartisan resolution
00:17:08.600 calling on China to
00:17:10.740 release Pastor Jin, to
00:17:12.320 stop targeting the
00:17:13.540 Zion Church, to
00:17:14.400 release the pastors
00:17:15.420 and the Christians
00:17:16.160 who've been
00:17:17.060 imprisoned, and to
00:17:18.820 cease engaging in
00:17:20.520 persecution of
00:17:22.780 religious liberty
00:17:24.020 writ broadly, and of
00:17:25.700 Christians in
00:17:26.260 particular.
00:17:27.340 It really is one of
00:17:28.960 those that is
00:17:29.780 frustrating.
00:17:30.380 And now this comes
00:17:31.040 back to the issue of
00:17:31.940 leverage.
00:17:32.520 Is this going to be
00:17:33.940 enough leverage to
00:17:34.920 possibly see a
00:17:36.580 change here?
00:17:37.180 Because one thing
00:17:38.080 that we've learned
00:17:38.660 is China only
00:17:39.920 responds when their
00:17:40.960 pocketbook gets
00:17:41.680 hurt, and if they
00:17:42.380 don't think we have
00:17:43.000 the political will to
00:17:44.000 stand up for
00:17:44.840 Christians, then
00:17:46.280 they're going to
00:17:46.800 continue to
00:17:47.280 persecute them no
00:17:48.120 matter what.
00:17:48.920 That's just their
00:17:49.760 M.O.
00:17:51.860 They are, but they
00:17:53.240 respond to pressure.
00:17:54.340 They respond to
00:17:55.060 pressure in two
00:17:56.280 forms.
00:17:56.780 Number one, to
00:17:57.320 being publicly
00:17:57.960 called out, to
00:17:59.200 having light shine on
00:18:00.720 their oppression, and
00:18:01.520 number two, they
00:18:02.020 respond to economic
00:18:02.900 leverage, and
00:18:03.480 President Trump is
00:18:04.240 very effective at
00:18:05.300 employing economic
00:18:06.260 leverage.
00:18:06.680 I think we
00:18:07.040 should do both.
00:18:08.440 Our bipartisan
00:18:09.380 resolution is aimed
00:18:12.120 at, quote, expressing
00:18:13.220 condemnation of the
00:18:14.280 Chinese Communist
00:18:14.960 Party's persecution of
00:18:16.200 Christians and
00:18:17.460 reaffirming the United
00:18:18.540 States' global
00:18:19.540 commitment to promote
00:18:20.840 religious freedom and
00:18:22.520 tolerance.
00:18:23.320 And it also includes
00:18:24.280 a demand that the
00:18:25.380 Chinese Communist
00:18:26.240 Party respect the
00:18:28.240 human right to
00:18:29.020 freedom of religion
00:18:29.780 and end all forms of
00:18:32.260 violence and
00:18:32.940 discrimination against
00:18:34.360 religious minorities.
00:18:36.240 And the resolution
00:18:37.340 notes, the CCP's
00:18:39.540 actions mark the
00:18:41.120 largest coordinated
00:18:42.560 nationwide crackdown
00:18:44.080 against a Christian
00:18:45.320 urban house church
00:18:46.640 in more than 40
00:18:48.940 years.
00:18:50.800 It also notes that
00:18:51.980 the U.S.
00:18:52.400 Commission on
00:18:52.900 International Religious
00:18:53.820 Freedom designated
00:18:55.260 China as a country of,
00:18:57.380 quote, particular
00:18:58.100 concern for religious
00:18:59.380 freedom every single
00:19:01.300 year since 1998.
00:19:03.100 And Pastor Jin of the
00:19:06.000 Zion Church was
00:19:07.600 detained by Chinese
00:19:08.840 authorities.
00:19:10.520 And indeed, that
00:19:13.240 came as nearly 30
00:19:14.780 Zion Church pastors
00:19:16.260 and workers were
00:19:17.660 likewise detained or
00:19:19.060 went missing across
00:19:20.860 Beijing, Xinjiang,
00:19:22.540 Shanghai, Chengdu,
00:19:24.140 Beihai, Jingxing, and
00:19:26.700 Huangdo.
00:19:27.460 And I apologize for my
00:19:29.220 Chinese pronunciation.
00:19:30.600 We'll forgive you.
00:19:33.380 But here's what
00:19:35.460 Grace Jin said
00:19:36.540 about this,
00:19:38.560 and she's Pastor
00:19:39.120 Jin's daughter.
00:19:41.200 One after another,
00:19:42.780 they were also
00:19:43.300 taken,
00:19:44.300 detained,
00:19:45.220 like they were
00:19:45.960 saying that they
00:19:46.800 were people outside
00:19:47.840 the doors,
00:19:48.580 then one at a time,
00:19:49.920 they were taken
00:19:50.680 into custody.
00:19:52.640 This is wrong.
00:19:54.740 And President Trump
00:19:56.240 has an opportunity
00:19:57.060 when he is in Asia,
00:19:58.520 when he is with
00:19:59.360 President Xi, to
00:20:00.940 call on President
00:20:01.720 Xi to release
00:20:02.780 these pastors,
00:20:04.300 release Pastor Jin,
00:20:05.500 release the Christians
00:20:06.320 who are being
00:20:06.840 persecuted, and stop
00:20:08.780 persecuting people of
00:20:10.240 faith.
00:20:10.700 And I think the
00:20:11.760 United States has a
00:20:13.600 responsibility to be a
00:20:15.020 voice for religious
00:20:15.840 liberty across the
00:20:16.800 country, to defend
00:20:17.820 Christians when they're
00:20:19.400 persecuted, to defend
00:20:20.620 Jews when they're
00:20:21.340 persecuted, to defend
00:20:22.640 people of faith all
00:20:24.220 across the world.
00:20:26.040 You know, you look at
00:20:26.800 radical Islamic
00:20:27.560 terrorists, many of
00:20:28.540 them target and
00:20:29.800 persecute other
00:20:30.680 Muslims who are not
00:20:31.880 violent.
00:20:33.060 And I think religious
00:20:34.560 persecution is wrong
00:20:36.140 regardless of who the
00:20:38.040 victims are, and we
00:20:39.840 should be a voice for
00:20:41.480 religious liberty.
00:20:42.380 Now, that doesn't mean
00:20:43.440 that America should go
00:20:45.360 and invade China to try
00:20:47.540 to break the pastor out
00:20:48.520 of jail, but there are
00:20:49.600 lots of tools that the
00:20:50.740 president can use,
00:20:52.500 including the bully
00:20:53.900 pulpit of the
00:20:54.540 presidency, including
00:20:55.540 shining a light, and
00:20:58.800 including also
00:21:00.520 economic leverage to
00:21:01.800 try to stop this
00:21:03.340 persecution, and I
00:21:04.340 very much hope
00:21:04.960 President Trump will
00:21:06.600 do so in the coming
00:21:07.400 week.
00:21:08.300 Yeah, you and I both
00:21:09.680 hope that.
00:21:10.300 Final question on
00:21:11.120 this.
00:21:12.300 As you watch
00:21:13.440 President Trump put
00:21:14.280 pressure, not just on
00:21:15.080 China, but other
00:21:15.560 countries, it does seem
00:21:16.780 to be that his
00:21:18.000 foreign policy now is
00:21:19.520 if there is a wrong
00:21:20.920 that needs to be
00:21:21.440 discussed, it's going
00:21:22.640 to be on the table
00:21:23.740 front and center.
00:21:24.380 That is pretty
00:21:25.720 different from what
00:21:26.400 we've seen in past
00:21:27.160 administrations where
00:21:28.060 they're like, well,
00:21:28.580 maybe it's not the time
00:21:29.360 to bring that up right
00:21:30.120 now.
00:21:30.440 He seems to be willing
00:21:31.340 to bring it all up.
00:21:33.440 You're absolutely
00:21:33.940 right, and strong
00:21:35.140 American leadership can
00:21:36.780 stand up to
00:21:37.720 tyrannies.
00:21:38.880 The Soviet Union was
00:21:40.040 terrified of Ronald
00:21:41.360 Reagan.
00:21:41.820 That's how we won the
00:21:42.580 Cold War without firing
00:21:43.640 a shot, and communist
00:21:44.640 China and our enemies
00:21:45.660 across the globe are
00:21:46.640 terrified of Donald
00:21:47.540 Trump, and that's why
00:21:48.900 we're seeing such major
00:21:50.260 national security
00:21:51.040 improvements right now.
00:21:52.060 As before, if you
00:21:53.520 want to hear the rest
00:21:54.220 of this conversation
00:21:55.100 on this topic, you
00:21:56.460 can go back and
00:21:57.240 download the podcast
00:21:58.420 from early this week
00:21:59.260 to hear the entire
00:22:00.060 thing.
00:22:01.400 Canadian women are
00:22:02.440 looking for more, more
00:22:03.780 out of themselves,
00:22:04.640 their businesses, their
00:22:05.700 elected leaders, and the
00:22:06.940 world around them.
00:22:07.760 And that's why we're
00:22:08.400 thrilled to introduce
00:22:09.360 the Honest Talk podcast.
00:22:11.500 I'm Jennifer Stewart.
00:22:12.680 And I'm Catherine Clark.
00:22:13.900 And in this podcast, we
00:22:15.180 interview Canada's most
00:22:16.300 inspiring women.
00:22:17.640 Entrepreneurs, artists,
00:22:19.000 athletes, politicians, and
00:22:20.460 newsmakers, all at
00:22:21.620 different stages of
00:22:22.540 their journey.
00:22:23.380 So if you're looking
00:22:24.400 to connect, then we
00:22:25.440 hope you'll join us.
00:22:26.620 Listen to the Honest
00:22:27.300 Talk podcast on iHeart
00:22:28.600 Radio or wherever you
00:22:29.760 listen to your podcasts.
00:22:32.340 I want to get back to
00:22:33.640 the big story, number
00:22:34.900 three of the week you
00:22:35.720 may have missed.
00:22:36.980 All right, Senator, so
00:22:37.780 let's start with the big
00:22:39.360 news.
00:22:40.400 Where were you when you
00:22:41.880 found out that you were
00:22:43.580 spied on as part of
00:22:44.560 Jack Smith's investigation
00:22:45.600 into Donald Trump?
00:22:47.300 This clearly is a fishing
00:22:49.060 expedition.
00:22:50.440 And what were you told?
00:22:51.820 Have you been briefed on
00:22:52.940 this?
00:22:53.200 Are you just getting the
00:22:53.960 same intel we are from
00:22:55.140 reading it in the news?
00:22:56.700 So I found out about this
00:22:58.700 last week, last Thursday.
00:22:59.980 I got the information.
00:23:01.180 And let's back up a couple
00:23:02.180 of weeks ago.
00:23:02.740 A couple of weeks ago, the
00:23:04.140 news broke that Jack
00:23:06.340 Smith, the prosecutor in
00:23:08.220 the Biden DOJ that was
00:23:09.600 going after January 6th,
00:23:11.280 that was going after
00:23:11.980 President Trump, had
00:23:13.980 subpoenaed eight senators
00:23:15.760 and one Republican House
00:23:17.020 member and had gotten
00:23:18.120 their cell phone records.
00:23:20.220 And the eight senators who
00:23:21.460 had been subpoenaed were
00:23:22.400 Marsha Blackburn, Ron
00:23:23.820 Johnson, Bill Haggerty,
00:23:25.720 Josh Hawley, Cynthia
00:23:27.180 Lummis, Lindsey Graham,
00:23:29.220 Dan Sullivan, and Tommy
00:23:30.520 Tuberville.
00:23:31.140 And then Mike Kelly, a
00:23:32.900 Republican House member
00:23:33.680 from Pennsylvania, was
00:23:34.600 also subpoenaed.
00:23:36.200 All nine of them had their
00:23:37.940 cell phone records handed
00:23:39.220 over to the Biden
00:23:40.360 Department of Justice.
00:23:42.100 Now, I got to admit, just
00:23:43.660 over a week ago, Sean
00:23:44.940 Hannity was in town and
00:23:46.300 I had dinner with Sean
00:23:47.720 and with several of
00:23:50.800 the senators on that
00:23:52.380 list as well.
00:23:53.880 And I was laughing with
00:23:55.760 Sean.
00:23:56.100 I was saying, I'm
00:23:57.020 actually kind of offended.
00:23:58.320 Like, how did I get
00:23:59.320 lift out of this list?
00:24:00.540 Like, what did I have to
00:24:01.980 do?
00:24:02.980 I was literally standing
00:24:05.520 on the Senate floor on
00:24:06.940 January 6th, objecting
00:24:08.840 and leading the fight.
00:24:10.720 And I had brought
00:24:11.380 together 11 senators to
00:24:13.840 stand together in fighting
00:24:15.300 for an election commission
00:24:17.200 to assess the evidence
00:24:18.460 of voter fraud, and
00:24:20.340 including many of the
00:24:21.960 senators who were
00:24:23.280 subpoenaed were in the
00:24:24.360 group that I'd brought
00:24:25.040 together.
00:24:25.520 So I was joking with
00:24:26.880 Sean, but I wasn't
00:24:27.580 entirely joking.
00:24:28.920 Well, it turns out the
00:24:30.260 reason I was not on the
00:24:31.260 list is apparently all
00:24:32.580 eight of those senators,
00:24:33.700 their cell phones are with
00:24:34.940 Verizon.
00:24:36.500 And the evidence had come
00:24:37.760 out that Verizon had
00:24:38.720 handed over their cell phone
00:24:40.160 information.
00:24:40.580 Well, my cell phone is
00:24:42.420 with AT&T, and I didn't
00:24:45.020 know it at the time, but I
00:24:46.280 found out late last week
00:24:47.620 that Jack Smith sent a
00:24:49.680 subpoena to AT&T demanding
00:24:51.980 my cell phone records, and
00:24:54.440 AT&T told them to go jump
00:24:55.680 in a lake.
00:24:57.120 AT&T did not give my cell
00:25:00.460 phone records.
00:25:01.140 I really, look, AT&T is
00:25:02.620 based in Texas.
00:25:03.600 I'm proud of them.
00:25:04.320 They did the right thing.
00:25:05.220 I appreciate that.
00:25:06.200 And they assessed it.
00:25:10.080 They had a subpoena from
00:25:11.040 Jack Smith.
00:25:11.980 By the way, the subpoena
00:25:13.220 called for, quote,
00:25:16.160 detailed records for
00:25:18.120 inbound and outbound calls,
00:25:21.540 text messages, direct
00:25:23.460 connect, and voicemail
00:25:25.380 messages, among other
00:25:26.320 things.
00:25:27.200 So they were seeking that.
00:25:28.420 There was also an order
00:25:30.160 from Judge Boesberg, who
00:25:32.220 was, you know, this left-wing
00:25:33.800 judge who's been presiding
00:25:35.020 against, over much of the
00:25:36.640 litigation against, against
00:25:38.880 Trump, had an order from
00:25:40.860 Judge Boesberg ordering
00:25:42.020 AT&T, you cannot disclose
00:25:44.680 to Cruz that we're seeking
00:25:47.260 his cell phone information
00:25:48.380 for a year.
00:25:49.020 Isn't that amazing, by the
00:25:50.300 way?
00:25:50.500 You're sitting in the United
00:25:51.300 States center.
00:25:51.820 Don't tell him.
00:25:52.540 We don't want him to know.
00:25:54.080 Yes.
00:25:54.920 And so AT&T examined it, and
00:25:57.820 they actually, they came to
00:25:59.040 the conclusion.
00:25:59.720 Now, the way it works, so the
00:26:01.560 subpoena just comes, and they
00:26:03.300 get a cell phone number.
00:26:05.020 So, so, so the Biden DOJ
00:26:07.660 didn't identify who they
00:26:09.540 were seeking.
00:26:10.300 And, and by the way, look,
00:26:11.120 the telecom companies,
00:26:12.920 typically, if they get a
00:26:14.220 subpoena for, for phone
00:26:15.860 records on, on a number,
00:26:17.320 they typically hand it over
00:26:18.820 because it's usually a drug
00:26:19.780 dealer, a criminal, you have
00:26:20.880 a subpoena that's issued
00:26:21.880 from a grand jury.
00:26:22.760 So, so it, it, they will
00:26:25.080 routinely, in a criminal
00:26:26.260 proceeding, hand over.
00:26:29.440 Well, it so happened that,
00:26:30.600 that AT&T, even though they
00:26:31.820 just asked for the number,
00:26:32.900 they looked and realized
00:26:33.920 whose number it was.
00:26:35.720 And, and, and they talked
00:26:37.860 with their legal team, and,
00:26:39.920 and, and they said, listen,
00:26:41.360 what, what Cruz is saying
00:26:42.740 is it, and any member of
00:26:44.280 Congress, what, what they're
00:26:45.260 saying is protected by the
00:26:46.580 speech and debate clause
00:26:47.640 of the Constitution.
00:26:49.120 The Constitution protects
00:26:50.560 the ability of, of, of
00:26:53.160 senators and House members
00:26:54.320 to engage in debate, to,
00:26:55.980 to do our jobs.
00:26:57.740 Article 1 of the Constitution
00:26:59.340 vests all legislative power
00:27:01.400 in the Congress.
00:27:03.600 And, and, in fact, we, you
00:27:05.400 know, on January 6th, it, it
00:27:06.980 was very literally speech
00:27:08.380 and debate.
00:27:08.780 As I said, I was standing
00:27:09.900 on the Senate floor.
00:27:11.260 Yeah.
00:27:11.880 Giving a speech and raising
00:27:13.280 an objection.
00:27:13.760 So it's literally the heart
00:27:15.060 of what one does as an
00:27:17.420 elected member of Congress.
00:27:18.520 And, and so AT&T concluded,
00:27:21.840 listen, they're, we're not
00:27:23.260 going to comply.
00:27:24.620 As I said, I'm grateful for
00:27:26.400 AT&T doing that.
00:27:27.620 But that now makes it nine
00:27:29.320 senators that we know of.
00:27:31.400 And one House member.
00:27:31.980 So I'm guessing there might
00:27:33.460 be other senators that were
00:27:34.260 also at AT&T and they
00:27:35.320 probably said, no, we're not
00:27:36.420 going to do that either.
00:27:37.060 Right.
00:27:37.280 It would be Verizon just
00:27:38.720 caved instantly and said,
00:27:39.820 sure, here's everybody you're
00:27:40.820 asking for.
00:27:41.660 There could be easily, I
00:27:42.880 would say another four or
00:27:43.780 five, six others who knows
00:27:45.720 how many outside the Senate,
00:27:47.180 right, that they could have
00:27:47.980 asked for, that they could
00:27:48.860 have said no to as well.
00:27:49.940 And I would assume there
00:27:51.000 was a lot of people on AT&T.
00:27:52.900 Well, and, and look, the,
00:27:54.320 the, the, the Biden DOJ
00:27:55.740 also went after, went after
00:27:57.700 the Republican Attorney
00:27:58.520 General's Association.
00:27:59.440 It went after Turning Point
00:28:00.800 USA.
00:28:01.700 This was a massive
00:28:03.460 fishing expedition.
00:28:05.520 And, and this was a, a, a
00:28:07.360 political persecution.
00:28:08.660 Understand, Jack Smith was
00:28:10.400 appointed special counsel to
00:28:11.840 investigate and prosecute
00:28:12.980 January 6th.
00:28:14.740 Three days after Donald Trump
00:28:17.960 announced his campaign for
00:28:19.920 reelection in 2024.
00:28:21.580 Literally three days later.
00:28:22.860 So it was 2022.
00:28:24.380 So it was two years after
00:28:25.780 January 6th.
00:28:26.640 They had not appointed
00:28:27.240 anyone.
00:28:27.720 And yet suddenly when Trump
00:28:28.980 announces his campaign, they
00:28:30.820 rushed to appoint Jack Smith
00:28:32.260 to say, go after Donald Trump
00:28:33.860 because we want to stop the
00:28:35.560 voters from, from voting for
00:28:37.520 him.
00:28:38.260 Sure.
00:28:38.520 But, but nine senators, that
00:28:40.220 is 20% of the Republicans in
00:28:42.940 the United States Senate.
00:28:43.880 And, and I got to say for the
00:28:45.280 executive branch to engage in
00:28:49.340 wholesale spying on their
00:28:52.680 political opponents and spying
00:28:55.280 with, let's be clear, none of
00:28:57.500 us engaged in criminal conduct.
00:28:59.760 None of us can engage in
00:29:00.720 anything remotely criminal,
00:29:02.360 arguably criminal.
00:29:03.760 This was political persecution.
00:29:05.780 This was snooping.
00:29:06.980 This is hoping someone said
00:29:09.220 something.
00:29:09.780 Here's what I was going to ask
00:29:10.780 you.
00:29:11.060 What were they hoping to find?
00:29:13.040 Right?
00:29:13.300 Like you go fishing and, and
00:29:15.120 what, what is the smoking gun in
00:29:16.680 that scenario?
00:29:17.160 They were, they were just, Hey,
00:29:18.860 we'll just go after all these
00:29:20.000 conservatives and maybe we get
00:29:22.160 lucky.
00:29:23.220 Look, I don't know what they
00:29:24.820 were hoping to find, but, but,
00:29:26.240 but they were asking for the
00:29:28.320 cell phone records from, from
00:29:29.880 January 4th to January 7th.
00:29:31.820 So all surrounding January 6th,
00:29:33.860 I assume they were looking for
00:29:35.920 some, some modicum of
00:29:37.820 coordination, uh, with, with,
00:29:40.440 with those who engage in active
00:29:41.800 violence on that day.
00:29:43.540 Um, part of their theory was,
00:29:46.360 was the alternate electors that
00:29:48.060 were being sent from various
00:29:49.240 states.
00:29:49.620 So I assume they were looking
00:29:50.760 for some modicum of
00:29:52.580 coordination there, but, but
00:29:54.460 this was a political
00:29:55.700 prosecution because they did
00:29:58.180 not have evidence.
00:29:59.600 And so they said, well, let's,
00:30:01.160 let's go through their cell
00:30:02.080 phone records and see if we
00:30:03.880 can find something.
00:30:04.660 And by the way, who knows if,
00:30:05.960 if, if somebody had sent
00:30:07.340 something stupid, text, had a
00:30:10.420 voicemail, had, uh, you know,
00:30:12.340 I mean, people, when you go
00:30:14.580 through someone's emails, when
00:30:16.380 you go through someone's
00:30:17.500 cell phones, when prosecutors
00:30:19.380 go looking for a crime, um,
00:30:24.200 the, the nature of a phishing
00:30:25.700 expedition is let's go look
00:30:27.220 around, you know, there's a
00:30:27.980 book that was written decades
00:30:29.100 ago, uh, that, that, that's
00:30:31.640 called Three Felonies a Day.
00:30:33.500 And, and it talks about how the
00:30:35.340 average American commits three
00:30:36.780 felonies a day, that, that in
00:30:38.040 our regulatory state, things are
00:30:39.360 so complicated, things are so
00:30:40.960 mired in complexity that, that,
00:30:43.540 that you can violate, you know,
00:30:45.660 you, you step on a wetland in
00:30:47.180 your backyard and, and, and,
00:30:48.740 and, you know, there's an old
00:30:51.140 line that a prosecutor can
00:30:53.600 indict a ham sandwich.
00:30:55.240 Yeah.
00:30:55.720 That, that a prosecutor goes in
00:30:57.180 front of a grand jury.
00:30:58.160 When a prosecutor goes in front
00:30:59.300 of a grand jury, you know,
00:31:00.240 there's no defense attorney
00:31:01.120 there.
00:31:01.780 It's just the prosecutor and
00:31:03.360 members of the grand jury.
00:31:04.320 And so I don't know what they
00:31:06.320 were looking for.
00:31:06.980 I think they were looking for
00:31:07.880 anything that could stick
00:31:09.440 because this was a political
00:31:11.460 prosecution.
00:31:12.720 Let me ask you this.
00:31:14.280 And so, Ben, I just want to
00:31:16.100 say, I'm really grateful they
00:31:18.660 did not find the pictures you
00:31:21.240 sent of me of you in a pink
00:31:22.860 tutu, because I just think that
00:31:24.780 it's not criminal.
00:31:26.540 All the Ivy League jokes that I
00:31:27.680 send you about the Ivy League
00:31:29.480 snobs.
00:31:30.160 I mean, Jack Smith probably ended
00:31:31.640 up going to one of those places.
00:31:32.840 That could have been very bad
00:31:33.960 for me.
00:31:35.020 I, I, it, you know, it, it,
00:31:36.980 it would have been, uh, and,
00:31:39.540 and, and, and I got to say
00:31:40.860 just the typos and misspellings
00:31:42.920 that, that, that you have in
00:31:43.900 your text, that, that alone
00:31:45.420 would have been, been a little
00:31:46.500 bit embarrassing too.
00:31:47.600 So I'm glad none of that came
00:31:48.960 out.
00:31:49.000 The good news is they're very
00:31:50.300 hard to decipher when you're,
00:31:51.760 if they're, if it's in front of,
00:31:53.160 you know, Congress, like it's
00:31:54.320 what was Ben really trying to
00:31:55.740 say.
00:31:55.980 And I'm like, you're welcome.
00:31:57.020 I will tell you that I talked
00:31:59.740 to AT&T today and I said, look,
00:32:01.680 you guys ought to start a
00:32:02.620 marketing campaign of shift to
00:32:04.140 AT&T.
00:32:04.800 We'll, we'll protect your
00:32:06.060 stuff.
00:32:06.460 Like, yeah, we don't, like
00:32:07.360 kudos to them.
00:32:09.280 I look, I, I don't have a good
00:32:11.780 answer to that, but, but, but,
00:32:13.280 but I did, uh, and I didn't
00:32:15.080 know about this until just a
00:32:16.300 few days ago.
00:32:16.840 So this was when the first
00:32:19.000 news broke, I, like, I was
00:32:20.760 joking that I felt excluded,
00:32:22.100 but it wasn't entirely a joke.
00:32:23.640 And then I was like, oh, okay,
00:32:25.080 that makes sense.
00:32:25.760 And, and, uh, and here we
00:32:27.780 are.
00:32:28.260 All right.
00:32:28.560 Final question on this.
00:32:30.620 What is going to be the
00:32:31.840 response from Congress?
00:32:34.400 Will there be any to this?
00:32:35.840 Or is this just old
00:32:36.820 administration, abuse of
00:32:38.040 power?
00:32:38.660 It is what it is.
00:32:39.720 We're going to move on.
00:32:40.840 Or is there going to be a way
00:32:41.880 to make sure, like, we have
00:32:43.020 standards that this is not
00:32:44.080 allowed to happen and that
00:32:45.740 people are held accountable
00:32:46.620 for this?
00:32:47.680 Look, I think we're going to
00:32:48.420 see hearings.
00:32:49.400 Uh, I think we've, we've,
00:32:50.920 we've got hearings coming in
00:32:52.460 the house.
00:32:52.880 I think we'll see hearings in
00:32:53.980 the Senate.
00:32:54.580 I will tell you the nine of
00:32:56.180 us who were targeted, we're,
00:32:57.500 we're talking to each other
00:32:58.640 because we want to prevent
00:32:59.900 this.
00:33:00.240 We want to prevent a, a
00:33:01.860 subsequent DOJ from doing
00:33:03.740 this, from spying on their
00:33:05.320 political opponents,
00:33:06.540 particularly in, in Congress.
00:33:08.300 The executive doesn't have
00:33:09.660 the ability to go engage in
00:33:11.620 spying, uh, on, on, on, on
00:33:13.700 members of the opposing
00:33:14.600 party in Congress.
00:33:15.500 That is an abuse of power.
00:33:17.540 It, it, it, it is, it is
00:33:19.540 politicization.
00:33:20.800 Uh, and, and this, the, the,
00:33:23.420 this entire effort.
00:33:25.700 So, so this prosecution was
00:33:28.460 called Arctic Frost.
00:33:29.680 And, and I think this is going
00:33:30.900 to be the water gate of the
00:33:32.200 Biden DOJ.
00:33:33.400 I, I think it is a
00:33:35.080 demonstration that Jack
00:33:36.860 Smith was a partisan
00:33:39.160 prosecutor who was drunk on
00:33:40.920 power.
00:33:41.560 And, and, and, and I don't
00:33:43.860 believe Jack Smith made this
00:33:45.220 decision on his own.
00:33:46.340 I think the decision making
00:33:47.560 goes all the way up.
00:33:48.660 I think it goes up to the
00:33:49.600 attorney general.
00:33:50.220 I think it goes up to the
00:33:51.140 White House.
00:33:51.800 And, and, and so I expect
00:33:53.400 number one, some, some real
00:33:54.840 investigation and hopefully
00:33:56.020 transparency in terms of who
00:33:57.680 approved, let's go spy on
00:33:59.960 members of Congress.
00:34:00.720 And, and, and, and, and
00:34:02.180 that, that I think we're
00:34:04.660 going to work to have some
00:34:05.540 real transparency on.
00:34:06.700 And then I think we're going
00:34:07.600 to look at real and concrete
00:34:09.000 steps we can take to make
00:34:10.580 sure this never happens again,
00:34:11.840 because this kind of abuse.
00:34:13.160 Is there, is there part of
00:34:13.880 you that just thinks like,
00:34:15.480 maybe this has just been
00:34:16.620 going on and never really
00:34:17.860 stopped after, after, you
00:34:19.380 know, the, the, the, the
00:34:20.900 famous FBI director that had,
00:34:22.700 you know, files on everybody.
00:34:24.160 Uh, and, and, and people
00:34:25.760 said, well, we won't have
00:34:27.100 that again after, after
00:34:28.200 Jagger.
00:34:28.780 And, and, and now it's
00:34:30.200 like, they're just like
00:34:31.040 they wild west.
00:34:32.640 You can do whatever the hell
00:34:33.140 you want to.
00:34:33.700 If you're a Democrat and
00:34:34.440 you're in charge, like we
00:34:35.440 can spy on the president,
00:34:36.320 we can spy on the
00:34:36.820 campaigns.
00:34:37.560 We can go after people in
00:34:39.000 the situation room and
00:34:40.040 entrap them.
00:34:40.720 We can try to go after
00:34:41.920 their business associates
00:34:42.700 and their kids and get
00:34:43.720 them to turn against them.
00:34:44.700 Like Eric Trump was
00:34:46.040 talking about that on our
00:34:46.740 show the other day.
00:34:47.300 If you miss that show,
00:34:48.060 people should go back and
00:34:48.900 listen to it.
00:34:49.380 He's like, they were
00:34:49.880 literally trying to turn
00:34:51.100 Donald Trump's own
00:34:52.300 children against him
00:34:53.940 threatening that your
00:34:54.720 life's going to be over
00:34:55.580 and you're going to be in
00:34:56.120 jail.
00:34:56.460 So you better get a, get
00:34:57.360 out of jail free card.
00:34:58.460 And now it's like, yeah,
00:34:59.560 and we were also spying on
00:35:00.660 senators.
00:35:01.240 I'm assuming some
00:35:02.120 congressmen will come out
00:35:03.160 like who knows who's
00:35:04.520 there.
00:35:05.120 We, I mean, Charlie Kirk
00:35:06.520 said recently before his
00:35:09.420 assassination, it came out
00:35:10.880 that he said during the
00:35:11.740 campaign, we either win
00:35:13.000 the campaign or I may go
00:35:14.280 to jail.
00:35:15.100 I actually believe now
00:35:17.600 witnessing what we've
00:35:18.600 seen that that's not far
00:35:19.820 off from reality at all.
00:35:21.760 Look, the left was
00:35:24.060 willing to weaponize the
00:35:25.620 Department of Justice
00:35:26.460 and the FBI.
00:35:27.280 As you know, I wrote an
00:35:28.120 entire book entitled
00:35:29.240 Justice Corrupted, How
00:35:30.400 the Left Has Weaponized
00:35:31.380 Our Legal System.
00:35:32.460 And it talked about it
00:35:33.660 actually started with
00:35:34.480 Richard Nixon.
00:35:35.200 Richard Nixon tried to do
00:35:36.640 that.
00:35:36.960 And you look at some of
00:35:38.100 the, some of the
00:35:39.280 harebrained schemes that
00:35:40.660 the Nixon Justice
00:35:41.580 Department came up with,
00:35:42.900 including creating
00:35:44.800 underground stings to, to,
00:35:47.160 to get people, to, to
00:35:49.560 get people on film, taking
00:35:51.400 drugs and with
00:35:52.360 prostitutes to use to
00:35:53.860 essentially blackmail them
00:35:55.060 and to go after their
00:35:56.340 political opponents.
00:35:56.980 I mean, it was grotesque
00:35:58.480 abuse of power.
00:35:59.740 And, and, and when, when
00:36:01.220 that came to light, we
00:36:02.560 actually saw an
00:36:03.380 improvement.
00:36:03.800 And there were a couple
00:36:04.540 of decades where I think
00:36:05.720 this, this receded and
00:36:07.880 occurred far less.
00:36:09.480 And, and then what Richard
00:36:11.920 Nixon tried to do to the
00:36:13.800 justice system, Barack Obama
00:36:15.240 succeeded in doing, he came
00:36:17.180 in as this, this almost
00:36:19.180 Messiah figure and, and,
00:36:21.300 and, and DOJ, Eric Holder
00:36:24.020 as his attorney general, you
00:36:25.040 had Lois Lerner at, at the
00:36:26.840 IRS.
00:36:27.220 They began targeting their
00:36:29.020 political opponents,
00:36:30.120 targeting, targeting anyone
00:36:31.700 that they disagreed with and
00:36:33.140 also protecting their
00:36:34.040 friends.
00:36:34.920 During the Trump
00:36:35.800 administration, the first
00:36:36.920 term they went underground,
00:36:38.080 but they waged war on the
00:36:40.440 president.
00:36:40.880 These are the people that
00:36:41.720 created fraudulent documents
00:36:43.400 submitted to the FISA court.
00:36:45.080 in order to, in order to try
00:36:46.900 to go after President
00:36:48.020 Trump.
00:36:48.460 They wanted to reverse the
00:36:50.900 results of the 2016 election
00:36:52.580 because they were furious that
00:36:53.840 the American people elected
00:36:54.840 Trump.
00:36:55.460 And then during Biden, they
00:36:56.960 were open, they were flagrant,
00:36:58.500 they were out in the open and
00:36:59.700 they were, they were abusing
00:37:00.740 their power.
00:37:01.300 And I think they felt that the
00:37:03.080 ends justified the means and,
00:37:05.800 and, and anything was, was
00:37:08.220 acceptable.
00:37:08.860 And, and, and so I think we
00:37:10.220 need to take real steps.
00:37:11.860 Do I think this has been going
00:37:13.000 on forever and ever?
00:37:14.060 I don't, I certainly hope not.
00:37:15.680 I'm not aware that it has.
00:37:17.400 There is, there, there, there's
00:37:20.100 ancient history, but it took
00:37:21.720 really, I think under Biden to,
00:37:24.200 to make it just as, as
00:37:26.100 viciously partisan as it became.
00:37:28.940 Yes.
00:37:29.700 Yeah.
00:37:30.220 It wills came off and no one
00:37:31.560 cared about the rules anymore.
00:37:32.900 Clearly it's, it's incredible.
00:37:34.600 As always, thank you for
00:37:36.400 listening to verdict with Senator
00:37:38.040 Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with
00:37:39.640 you.
00:37:39.800 Don't forget to download my
00:37:41.000 podcast and you can listen to
00:37:42.300 my podcast every other day.
00:37:43.440 You're not listening to verdict
00:37:44.320 or each day when you listen to
00:37:45.640 verdict afterwards, I'd love to
00:37:47.400 have you as a listener to again,
00:37:49.180 the Ben Ferguson podcast, and we
00:37:50.740 will see you back here on Monday
00:37:52.600 morning.
00:37:53.000 This is an I heart podcast
00:37:55.680 guaranteed human.