Verdict with Ted Cruz - October 25, 2025


Christian Persecution in Nigeria, Communist Crackdown on Christians in China & Senator Cruz Spied On Week In Review


Episode Stats


Length

37 minutes

Words per minute

165.71544

Word count

6,291

Sentence count

395

Harmful content

Misogyny

9

sentences flagged

Toxicity

73

sentences flagged

Hate speech

71

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Ted Cruz has a new bill that would force the U.S. government to designate Nigeria as a country of particular concern, and sanctions individuals involved in the killing of Christians. Also, there is a crackdown on Christians in China. And we now know what the Biden administration is doing when it comes to spying on conservatives.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.660 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.460 Welcome, it is Verdict with Ted Cruz,
00:00:07.580 the week in review, Ben Ferguson with you,
00:00:09.960 and here are some big stories
00:00:11.040 that you may have missed that we talked about.
00:00:13.240 First up, the killing of Christians in Nigeria 0.97
00:00:16.300 is happening at a shocking rate.
00:00:18.820 The media and the world not talking about it.
00:00:21.260 We're gonna shine a light on it
00:00:22.560 and make sure that you know what you can do to help.
00:00:25.580 Also, there is a crackdown on Christians in China.
00:00:30.000 Why is this happening around the world?
00:00:32.420 We'll give you the details on that
00:00:33.720 and how we can also use our U.S. government to help stop it.
00:00:38.080 And finally, we now know what the Biden administration
00:00:40.480 was doing when it comes to spying on conservatives,
00:00:44.640 including even more members of Congress.
00:00:47.820 This time, they asked for the phone records
00:00:50.760 and text messages of Senator Ted Cruz.
00:00:54.340 It's the week in review, and it starts right now.
00:00:57.880 And I wanna move now, Senator.
00:01:00.000 To something that you've been spearheading and leading on,
00:01:02.920 it's certainly not getting attention to the media.
00:01:05.220 But you're wanting to hold Nigeria accountable 1.00
00:01:07.960 for the 50,000, let me say that number again,
00:01:12.040 50,000 Christians that have been killed there.
00:01:16.380 Explain why this story is so important
00:01:19.200 and what you're trying to do,
00:01:20.600 and also, why is no one covering this
00:01:23.000 as it's been described to me?
00:01:24.240 Look, it is truly horrific.
00:01:27.040 The numbers are stunning.
00:01:29.020 The numbers are staggering.
00:01:30.660 Here are the top-line numbers of what we're seeing.
00:01:34.640 We have seen over 50,000 Christians killed.
00:01:39.620 We have seen over 18,000 churches
00:01:44.040 and at least 2,000 schools burned.
00:01:48.420 And the response to this,
00:01:52.040 the Nigerian government is fighting back ferociously,
00:01:55.940 saying, this is not happening.
00:01:57.500 This is not true.
00:01:58.520 There's a battle.
00:01:59.380 The Nigerian government officials are getting very angry
00:02:01.340 that I'm calling them out.
00:02:02.880 I want to read to you
00:02:04.580 from the executive summary
00:02:06.860 of the U.S. State Department's
00:02:08.960 2024 country report
00:02:10.780 on human rights practices in Nigeria.
00:02:12.660 And here's what it says.
00:02:16.200 Quote,
00:02:16.740 Significant human rights issues
00:02:18.440 included credible reports
00:02:19.880 of arbitrary and unlawful killings,
00:02:22.820 disappearances,
00:02:24.420 torture,
00:02:25.360 or cruel, inhuman,
00:02:26.900 or degrading treatment or punishment,
00:02:29.560 arbitrary arrest or detention,
00:02:32.220 serious abuses in a conflict,
00:02:34.820 serious restrictions on freedom of expression
00:02:36.920 and media freedom,
00:02:37.960 including violence or threats of violence
00:02:39.780 against journalists,
00:02:40.660 violence or threats
00:02:42.580 against labor activists
00:02:43.840 or union members,
00:02:45.420 and significant presence
00:02:46.840 of any of the worst forms
00:02:48.640 of child labor.
00:02:50.700 Non-state actors committed
00:02:51.900 arbitrary and unlawful killings,
00:02:53.440 disappearances,
00:02:54.200 physical abuse,
00:02:55.060 and other mistreatments.
00:02:57.040 Boko Haram
00:02:57.780 and the Islamic State in West Africa
00:03:00.280 continued attacks on civilians,
00:03:03.280 military, police,
00:03:05.040 humanitarian,
00:03:06.160 and religious targets,
00:03:07.300 unlawfully recruited
00:03:09.440 and forcibly conscripted
00:03:11.980 child soldiers
00:03:13.380 and carried out scores of attacks
00:03:16.140 on population centers
00:03:17.460 in the northeast regions.
00:03:20.000 Abductions by Boko Haram
00:03:21.560 and the Islamic State
00:03:22.680 in West Africa continued.
00:03:25.180 Both groups subjected
00:03:26.320 many women and girls
00:03:28.080 to gender-based violence,
00:03:31.040 including forced marriage,
00:03:33.600 sexual slavery, 0.94
00:03:34.560 and rape. 1.00
00:03:36.740 This is what's going on 0.97
00:03:38.700 in Nigeria right now.
00:03:41.120 And it is going on
00:03:42.800 far too often
00:03:43.700 with the acquiescence
00:03:46.420 of the elected government officials.
00:03:50.280 Far too often,
00:03:52.120 and in some instances,
00:03:54.540 you have provinces in Nigeria
00:03:57.240 that have on the books
00:03:59.200 blasphemy law
00:04:00.980 and Sharia law.
00:04:03.320 And they will prosecute 0.89
00:04:04.800 Christians for blasphemy. 1.00
00:04:07.240 They will prosecute Christians 1.00
00:04:08.940 for violating Sharia law,
00:04:10.740 in which case the government
00:04:12.220 becomes a tool
00:04:13.540 of the persecution
00:04:15.240 of Christians.
00:04:17.060 And look,
00:04:18.680 it is devastating.
00:04:22.440 It is the most Christians 1.00
00:04:25.000 being murdered anywhere 0.98
00:04:26.120 on the face of the planet
00:04:27.160 is happening in Nigeria.
00:04:30.540 And so,
00:04:32.220 I introduced legislation
00:04:33.900 to require the Secretary of State
00:04:36.760 to designate Nigeria
00:04:38.100 as a country
00:04:38.900 of particular concern
00:04:40.040 and to impose sanctions,
00:04:43.120 including in particular
00:04:44.420 sanctioning the individual
00:04:45.960 government officials.
00:04:46.840 So if you're a local official
00:04:48.440 and you're enforcing
00:04:49.480 blasphemy laws
00:04:50.320 and Sharia laws
00:04:51.100 and you're persecuting
00:04:52.140 Christians
00:04:52.920 or you're turning
00:04:53.960 the other way
00:04:54.680 and turning a blind eye
00:04:56.980 to Christians 0.97
00:04:57.920 being murdered 0.99
00:04:58.700 in mass numbers,
00:05:00.540 the result
00:05:02.900 of my legislation
00:05:03.880 would be
00:05:04.540 each of those
00:05:05.400 individual government
00:05:06.880 officials would face sanctions.
00:05:08.420 And I've got to say,
00:05:09.420 the Nigerian government
00:05:10.460 has been pushing back
00:05:11.760 ferociously.
00:05:13.680 For example,
00:05:14.400 the chairman
00:05:14.820 of the House Committee
00:05:15.580 on Foreign Affairs,
00:05:18.080 Oluwole Oke, 0.91
00:05:20.020 said the cruise bill
00:05:21.100 is, quote,
00:05:21.940 a deliberate attempt
00:05:22.820 to damage
00:05:23.380 the Nigerian image.
00:05:24.780 And he insists,
00:05:26.580 Nigeria is a very 1.00
00:05:28.280 tolerant country.
00:05:29.700 Well,
00:05:30.140 other than murdering 0.96
00:05:31.140 50,000 Christians. 0.99
00:05:32.100 Very tolerant
00:05:32.520 other than that.
00:05:34.060 Likewise,
00:05:34.880 the Minister of Information
00:05:35.940 and National Orientation,
00:05:37.360 Mohamed Idris,
00:05:39.140 rejected the suggestion
00:05:41.180 that, quote,
00:05:42.580 any Nigerian officials
00:05:43.980 will willingly,
00:05:44.940 deliberately indulge
00:05:45.880 in the act
00:05:46.340 of siding with
00:05:46.960 violent extremists
00:05:47.820 to target any particular
00:05:49.280 religion in the country.
00:05:51.000 Likewise,
00:05:53.040 presidential spokesperson
00:05:54.140 Baya Onanungo
00:05:56.240 demanded that Cruz
00:05:59.060 stop his, quote,
00:06:00.780 malicious and contrived lies
00:06:04.020 against, quote,
00:06:05.640 my country.
00:06:07.160 And finally,
00:06:08.060 Senate President
00:06:08.880 Godzwill Aqpabio
00:06:11.500 cautioned against
00:06:13.780 framing the crisis,
00:06:15.800 quote,
00:06:16.620 along religious lines
00:06:18.940 since, quote,
00:06:20.360 terrorists and bandits
00:06:22.080 target Nigerians 1.00
00:06:23.280 indiscriminately 0.87
00:06:24.300 regardless of faith.
00:06:26.000 Now, listen,
00:06:26.500 it is certainly true
00:06:27.420 that Boko Haram 0.97
00:06:28.940 and other religious
00:06:29.940 radicals in Nigeria 1.00
00:06:31.140 are killing Muslims 1.00
00:06:32.020 as well. 1.00
00:06:32.600 They are killing both. 0.99
00:06:34.020 But they are 0.85
00:06:34.740 systematically targeting 0.99
00:06:36.320 Christians for mass murder. 1.00
00:06:37.800 When you've got 1.00
00:06:38.440 50,000 Christians 0.94
00:06:39.800 being murdered,
00:06:40.820 that is not accidental,
00:06:42.140 that is not random.
00:06:43.460 And the over
00:06:44.220 18,000 churches
00:06:45.460 and the over
00:06:45.960 2,000 schools,
00:06:47.180 they are singling out
00:06:48.380 and targeting
00:06:48.900 Christian churches
00:06:49.840 and Christian schools 1.00
00:06:51.380 and burning them 1.00
00:06:52.640 to the ground. 0.98
00:06:53.780 And the government
00:06:55.080 of Nigeria
00:06:56.080 is not acting
00:06:57.220 with any vigor
00:06:59.800 at all
00:07:00.320 to defend
00:07:01.100 and to defend
00:07:02.680 the Christians
00:07:03.140 or just to keep
00:07:03.760 them alive.
00:07:04.820 Yeah, to keep
00:07:05.760 them alive.
00:07:06.400 And so now,
00:07:07.860 obviously,
00:07:08.620 this is about
00:07:09.320 letting it,
00:07:10.200 shining a light
00:07:10.760 on this.
00:07:11.300 And then you go back
00:07:12.520 to the policy
00:07:13.420 aspect of this.
00:07:14.720 What happens next?
00:07:15.880 And for people
00:07:16.500 specifically that are
00:07:17.560 listening,
00:07:18.280 what do they need
00:07:19.100 to be doing
00:07:19.560 and advocating
00:07:20.120 for to make sure
00:07:20.840 that we can
00:07:21.280 move this forward?
00:07:23.940 Look,
00:07:24.580 the next step
00:07:26.700 needs to be
00:07:27.520 that I'm pushing
00:07:28.920 for Congress
00:07:30.040 to pass my legislation.
00:07:31.440 I'm on the Senate
00:07:32.160 Foreign Relations
00:07:32.860 Committee,
00:07:33.340 so I'm pressing
00:07:33.860 for the Senate
00:07:34.340 Foreign Relations
00:07:35.040 Committee
00:07:35.340 to take it up.
00:07:36.860 That would
00:07:37.640 designate Nigeria
00:07:39.120 as a country
00:07:39.960 of particular concern.
00:07:41.120 Now, I would note
00:07:41.780 the Trump administration
00:07:42.800 can do so
00:07:43.640 on its own,
00:07:44.260 and this is often
00:07:44.840 the case
00:07:45.240 in foreign policy
00:07:45.980 areas,
00:07:46.800 where I'll introduce
00:07:47.560 legislation and I'll
00:07:48.580 push for action.
00:07:50.020 So, for example,
00:07:51.380 I've introduced
00:07:51.960 legislation to
00:07:53.080 designate the
00:07:53.740 Muslim Brotherhood 0.98
00:07:54.440 as a terrorist 0.98
00:07:55.040 organization.
00:07:55.720 I've done so
00:07:56.440 repeatedly in
00:07:57.220 multiple Congresses.
00:07:58.260 I think it is
00:07:58.660 unequivocally a
00:08:00.120 terrorist organization.
00:08:01.300 In fact, Hamas
00:08:02.260 is a branch of
00:08:03.800 the Muslim Brotherhood.
00:08:04.780 Hamas is the 1.00
00:08:05.800 Muslim Brotherhood
00:08:06.760 in Palestine,
00:08:08.820 is what they call
00:08:09.900 themselves.
00:08:11.160 And that has not
00:08:12.580 yet happened,
00:08:13.440 but I would
00:08:14.580 like to see
00:08:15.140 Congress pass
00:08:15.740 my legislation,
00:08:16.600 but the most
00:08:16.980 likely way we'll
00:08:17.940 get the Muslim 1.00
00:08:18.500 Brotherhood designated
00:08:19.360 is that I will
00:08:20.720 succeed in convincing
00:08:21.780 President Trump
00:08:22.560 and the Trump
00:08:22.980 administration to
00:08:23.780 do so.
00:08:24.160 And I've been
00:08:24.500 making that case
00:08:25.520 vigorously.
00:08:26.340 With respect to
00:08:26.940 Nigeria, the same 1.00
00:08:28.200 thing is true.
00:08:28.800 I'm going to try
00:08:29.260 to pass the
00:08:29.820 legislation, but I'm
00:08:30.820 also very much
00:08:31.620 making the case
00:08:32.360 to the Trump
00:08:32.840 administration.
00:08:34.100 They have the
00:08:34.760 authority to do
00:08:35.460 it now.
00:08:36.400 And look, I want
00:08:37.700 to point out, you
00:08:38.300 asked what people
00:08:38.900 can do.
00:08:39.520 Speak out,
00:08:40.240 highlight 50,000
00:08:41.360 Christians massacred 1.00
00:08:42.860 since 2009, the
00:08:44.960 single greatest
00:08:45.920 mass slaughter of 0.74
00:08:46.860 Christians anywhere 0.99
00:08:47.740 in the world.
00:08:50.660 And look, here's
00:08:51.740 how Fox News put
00:08:52.620 it, quote, a
00:08:53.780 diplomatic battle
00:08:54.600 is being waged
00:08:55.380 between leading
00:08:56.000 Republican Senator
00:08:56.820 Ted Cruz and
00:08:57.580 Nigerian government
00:08:58.380 officials.
00:08:59.340 The Texas
00:08:59.780 senators has
00:09:00.460 warned he will
00:09:01.160 hold them
00:09:01.540 accountable for
00:09:02.180 the reported
00:09:02.700 mass slaughter
00:09:03.540 of tens of
00:09:04.280 thousands of
00:09:04.820 Christians in 0.99
00:09:05.320 Nigeria.
00:09:06.220 The officials
00:09:06.980 say Cruz is
00:09:07.700 lying, with one
00:09:08.520 claiming that
00:09:09.080 despite even the
00:09:10.220 Pope publicly
00:09:11.600 calling out the
00:09:12.300 killings, there
00:09:13.420 is religious
00:09:14.100 harmony in the
00:09:15.400 country.
00:09:15.900 But you know
00:09:16.280 what?
00:09:17.360 Maybe you don't
00:09:17.980 believe me.
00:09:19.220 Maybe you don't
00:09:19.860 believe the
00:09:20.580 Pope.
00:09:21.680 So if the Pope
00:09:23.700 and I are both
00:09:24.360 wrong, how about
00:09:25.880 this?
00:09:26.400 Maybe, maybe
00:09:27.520 you'll believe
00:09:28.700 Bill Maher.
00:09:29.600 Give a listen to
00:09:30.200 what Bill Maher
00:09:30.780 had to say on
00:09:31.320 this topic.
00:09:32.000 If you don't
00:09:32.600 know what's
00:09:32.900 going on in
00:09:33.340 Nigeria, your 0.99
00:09:34.760 media sources 1.00
00:09:35.640 suck. 1.00
00:09:36.980 You are in a 1.00
00:09:38.140 bubble.
00:09:38.360 And again, I'm
00:09:40.100 not a Christian,
00:09:41.040 but they are 0.99
00:09:41.620 systematically killing 0.99
00:09:42.960 the Christians in 1.00
00:09:43.760 Nigeria. 0.99
00:09:44.120 They've killed over
00:09:45.240 100,000 since
00:09:46.500 2009.
00:09:47.380 They've burned
00:09:47.820 18,000 churches.
00:09:49.540 This is so much
00:09:50.260 more.
00:09:50.840 These are the
00:09:51.240 Islamists, Boko 1.00
00:09:52.160 Harem.
00:09:52.880 This is so much
00:09:53.680 more of a genocide
00:09:54.980 attempt than what
00:09:56.400 is going on in
00:09:57.200 Gaza.
00:09:57.520 They are literally
00:09:58.260 attempting to wipe 0.58
00:09:59.400 out the Christian 1.00
00:10:00.500 population of an
00:10:01.840 entire country.
00:10:02.940 Where are the
00:10:03.460 kids protesting
00:10:04.260 this?
00:10:05.700 Thank you.
00:10:07.680 No one will
00:10:08.520 talk about it,
00:10:09.100 so thank you.
00:10:10.600 Absolutely.
00:10:12.940 It's Africa, 0.90
00:10:13.800 that's why.
00:10:14.060 No one's talking
00:10:14.600 about it, and
00:10:15.120 they should be.
00:10:15.680 You can't read
00:10:16.080 about it on
00:10:16.460 mainstream media.
00:10:17.520 It's sad, so
00:10:18.040 thank you for
00:10:18.420 bringing it up.
00:10:18.540 Well, because the
00:10:19.080 Jews aren't 1.00
00:10:19.540 involved.
00:10:20.540 That's why.
00:10:21.720 It's the
00:10:22.260 Christians and
00:10:22.780 the Muslims
00:10:23.220 who cares.
00:10:24.260 He is exactly
00:10:25.500 right, and I
00:10:26.380 appreciate Bill
00:10:27.280 Maher calling it
00:10:28.420 out and shining a
00:10:29.700 light on it.
00:10:30.820 He's right that
00:10:31.860 the corporate media
00:10:33.100 does not want to
00:10:33.900 cover it, and by
00:10:34.600 the way, on that
00:10:36.060 same show, someone
00:10:38.000 you know well, Van
00:10:39.200 Jones from CNN, he
00:10:41.220 was on that show, and
00:10:42.540 Van Jones is a very
00:10:44.540 left-wing guy, and
00:10:45.560 he's on CNN
00:10:46.120 regularly, but he
00:10:47.340 commented and he
00:10:48.760 chimed in agreeing
00:10:50.680 with Bill Maher.
00:10:51.500 Here, give a listen
00:10:52.080 to Van Jones talking
00:10:53.320 about the slaughter
00:10:54.460 of Christians in
00:10:55.740 Nigeria.
00:10:56.660 You're talking
00:10:57.000 about young people.
00:10:57.660 A lot of them
00:10:58.100 seem to know one
00:10:58.840 thing.
00:10:59.140 White people did 0.98
00:10:59.840 some very bad 0.99
00:11:00.500 things in this
00:11:01.080 world, and they
00:11:01.620 certainly did.
00:11:02.320 But there are
00:11:03.180 other things to
00:11:03.840 know.
00:11:04.180 Yes.
00:11:04.980 Including the fact
00:11:06.720 that in Sudan
00:11:07.580 right now, which
00:11:08.320 nobody is talking
00:11:09.080 about, you have
00:11:09.880 Arab militia 0.91
00:11:11.020 murdering people 0.99
00:11:11.860 by the wheel 0.98
00:11:12.380 barrel, including
00:11:13.160 the fact that
00:11:13.560 Africa right now
00:11:14.240 is being overrun
00:11:15.060 by Islamist 0.98
00:11:15.800 terrorists, including
00:11:16.600 Boko Haram, with 0.92
00:11:17.600 no conversation
00:11:18.400 about that at
00:11:18.840 all.
00:11:19.160 I did it last
00:11:20.260 week.
00:11:21.600 Nigeria.
00:11:22.320 I mean, this
00:11:23.020 is an actual
00:11:23.820 planned genocide.
00:11:25.360 Yes.
00:11:25.700 I mean, they
00:11:26.040 really want to 0.99
00:11:26.860 kill all the 1.00
00:11:27.560 Christians in that 1.00
00:11:28.300 country, and they
00:11:29.200 are systematically
00:11:29.860 doing it.
00:11:30.720 And the fact
00:11:31.160 that there's
00:11:31.540 almost no
00:11:32.200 response from
00:11:32.760 the global
00:11:33.120 left and no
00:11:34.020 attention from
00:11:34.960 mainstream media
00:11:35.980 is a crime
00:11:36.820 against African 1.00
00:11:37.900 people, black 0.96
00:11:38.520 people, and
00:11:39.060 human rights.
00:11:39.600 I agree with
00:11:40.000 that 100%.
00:11:40.740 It turns out
00:11:41.980 that there's a
00:11:43.860 double standard
00:11:44.360 for Jews.
00:11:45.400 That is true.
00:11:47.680 No Jews, no 1.00
00:11:48.680 news. 0.71
00:11:49.380 As long as you
00:11:50.160 can put the
00:11:50.660 Jewish state in
00:11:51.620 the conversation,
00:11:52.220 it's going to
00:11:52.460 be a big
00:11:52.780 conversation.
00:11:53.180 If you can't,
00:11:54.400 you get no
00:11:55.280 attention at all.
00:11:56.080 This is a big
00:11:56.680 problem.
00:11:57.080 It is a big
00:11:58.480 problem.
00:11:58.960 I mean, you
00:11:59.360 hear Van Jones
00:12:00.120 saying it.
00:12:00.920 He is correct.
00:12:01.980 It is a huge
00:12:02.840 problem.
00:12:03.880 No Jews, no 1.00
00:12:04.880 news.
00:12:05.380 I mean, it's
00:12:06.680 amazing that this
00:12:07.640 is happening.
00:12:08.780 Look, we see the
00:12:10.920 protests on college
00:12:11.860 campuses.
00:12:12.660 We see these
00:12:13.560 angry leftists who
00:12:14.740 are completely
00:12:15.440 enraged about
00:12:16.200 Gaza.
00:12:17.260 The instant
00:12:18.080 President Trump
00:12:18.860 negotiates a peace
00:12:19.840 deal, they go
00:12:21.280 away.
00:12:21.700 Now, Hamas is 0.65
00:12:22.520 executing Palestinians 1.00
00:12:23.760 on the street, 0.99
00:12:24.720 lighting up
00:12:25.140 Palestinians on 0.99
00:12:25.960 their knees, 1.00
00:12:26.440 shooting them in 1.00
00:12:26.900 the back of the 1.00
00:12:27.400 head, and not
00:12:28.360 a peep.
00:12:28.840 These leftist
00:12:29.460 radicals, they 0.88
00:12:30.240 are perfectly
00:12:30.940 fine with
00:12:32.180 Palestinians being 0.99
00:12:33.340 systematically murdered 0.99
00:12:34.640 as long as it's 1.00
00:12:35.440 Palestinians.
00:12:36.080 As long as Hamas 1.00
00:12:37.200 is doing the
00:12:37.620 murder, you don't
00:12:38.800 see a protest, you
00:12:39.780 don't see any
00:12:41.140 calls a genocide.
00:12:42.720 Their protest is
00:12:43.920 about one thing,
00:12:44.920 which is they hate
00:12:45.640 Israel and they 0.99
00:12:46.380 hate Jews. 0.99
00:12:47.680 And I've got to 0.99
00:12:48.460 say, where is
00:12:50.060 ABC, where is
00:12:51.080 CBS, where is
00:12:52.160 NBC, where is
00:12:53.460 CNN and
00:12:53.980 MSNBC, where's
00:12:55.040 the New York
00:12:55.380 Times, where's
00:12:56.020 the Washington
00:12:56.460 Post, about the
00:12:59.080 mass murder of
00:13:00.160 over 50,000
00:13:01.520 Christians in 0.99
00:13:02.460 Nigeria? 0.77
00:13:03.240 Now, if you
00:13:03.680 want to hear the
00:13:04.340 rest of this
00:13:04.960 conversation, you
00:13:05.980 can go back and
00:13:06.820 listen to the
00:13:07.340 full podcast from
00:13:08.480 earlier this week.
00:13:10.200 Canadian women
00:13:11.020 are looking for
00:13:11.720 more, more out of
00:13:12.720 themselves, their
00:13:13.540 businesses, their
00:13:14.480 elected leaders, and
00:13:15.580 the world around
00:13:16.160 them.
00:13:16.540 And that's why
00:13:16.980 we're thrilled to
00:13:17.680 introduce the
00:13:18.520 Honest Talk
00:13:19.180 podcast.
00:13:20.260 I'm Jennifer
00:13:20.780 Stewart.
00:13:21.440 And I'm
00:13:21.760 Catherine Clark.
00:13:22.400 And in this
00:13:23.140 podcast, we
00:13:23.960 interview Canada's
00:13:24.780 most inspiring
00:13:25.640 women, entrepreneurs,
00:13:27.120 artists, athletes,
00:13:28.400 politicians, and
00:13:29.240 newsmakers, all at
00:13:30.400 different stages of
00:13:31.320 their journey.
00:13:32.180 So if you're looking
00:13:33.180 to connect, then we
00:13:34.220 hope you'll join us.
00:13:35.400 Listen to the
00:13:35.820 Honest Talk podcast
00:13:36.780 on iHeartRadio or
00:13:38.000 wherever you listen to
00:13:38.860 your podcasts.
00:13:41.240 Now on to story
00:13:42.380 number two.
00:13:43.460 Senator, it's time
00:13:44.340 for us to talk
00:13:44.920 about China.
00:13:45.760 And a lot of
00:13:46.300 people are talking
00:13:46.760 about the economic
00:13:47.640 issues with China,
00:13:48.980 sanctions and
00:13:49.920 tariffs.
00:13:50.600 The subject we're
00:13:52.240 about to talk
00:13:52.760 about is one I
00:13:53.400 hope people share
00:13:54.260 everywhere on social
00:13:55.300 media.
00:13:56.100 This is why we do
00:13:56.860 this show and it's
00:13:57.460 so important.
00:13:58.600 And this is what's
00:13:59.980 happening in China
00:14:00.760 cracking down on
00:14:02.400 Christianity right
00:14:03.280 now and is not
00:14:04.640 being talked about
00:14:05.420 enough.
00:14:06.940 Well, communist
00:14:08.140 China has a
00:14:08.980 terrible record when
00:14:09.960 it comes to
00:14:10.600 religious liberty
00:14:11.260 and religious
00:14:12.080 persecution.
00:14:12.620 And in
00:14:13.260 particular, the
00:14:14.500 persecution of
00:14:15.240 Christians. 0.51
00:14:15.620 China has for 0.98
00:14:17.560 decades persecuted
00:14:18.980 Christians in 0.99
00:14:19.920 China.
00:14:20.980 But recently, they've
00:14:22.520 been cracking down
00:14:23.340 and it's been
00:14:23.800 getting worse.
00:14:25.560 So here's how I
00:14:26.800 put it to Fox
00:14:27.640 News this week.
00:14:29.000 The Chinese 0.89
00:14:30.040 Communist Party is
00:14:31.080 conducting yet
00:14:31.800 another sweeping
00:14:32.800 crackdown on
00:14:33.840 Christians. 0.51
00:14:34.860 And they're again
00:14:35.920 targeting Pastor
00:14:36.940 Jin and the 0.84
00:14:38.200 Zion Church.
00:14:39.540 The CCP fears
00:14:41.140 anything it cannot
00:14:42.260 directly control.
00:14:43.400 perhaps most of
00:14:45.360 all, faith.
00:14:47.420 The United States
00:14:48.480 has powerful tools
00:14:49.780 to provide protection
00:14:50.840 and relief to
00:14:52.360 people facing
00:14:53.060 persecution and
00:14:54.000 violence.
00:14:54.720 And we should use
00:14:56.100 those tools unless
00:14:57.800 and until China
00:14:59.580 releases the members
00:15:00.700 of the Zion
00:15:01.240 Church.
00:15:02.320 And what has
00:15:03.280 happened is China 0.95
00:15:04.720 arrested several
00:15:06.080 Christian leaders,
00:15:07.900 including the
00:15:08.760 pastor of one of
00:15:09.640 the country's
00:15:10.180 biggest underground
00:15:11.700 evangelical churches.
00:15:13.400 churches, and
00:15:13.700 that's Pastor
00:15:14.320 Jin Mingri, whose
00:15:17.080 children are U.S.
00:15:18.220 citizens.
00:15:19.940 Grace Jin, who is 0.88
00:15:21.420 Mingri's daughter,
00:15:23.460 was very kind, but
00:15:25.680 went out of her
00:15:26.500 way to thank me for
00:15:27.960 fighting to release
00:15:29.080 her father from
00:15:30.780 prison.
00:15:31.340 And here's what
00:15:32.160 Grace Jin said. 0.91
00:15:32.980 She said, quote,
00:15:34.320 His efforts
00:15:35.180 demonstrate that the
00:15:36.100 world is watching
00:15:36.940 on as the Chinese
00:15:38.680 government unjustly
00:15:40.220 imprisons pastors
00:15:41.360 leaders and church
00:15:42.540 leaders for the
00:15:43.840 peaceful exercise of
00:15:45.260 their faith.
00:15:46.380 Thank you to the
00:15:47.340 leaders here and
00:15:48.120 abroad for all the
00:15:49.100 support and
00:15:50.380 solidarity.
00:15:51.900 And Senator, this
00:15:52.980 is, I think, the
00:15:53.760 part that's so
00:15:54.440 frustrating for me
00:15:55.440 and so many
00:15:55.980 listening is, this
00:15:57.260 has been happening
00:15:57.940 for so long, and
00:15:59.220 because so many
00:16:00.240 countries do business
00:16:01.200 with China, they 0.90
00:16:02.460 have deliberately
00:16:03.720 looked the other
00:16:04.540 way because they're
00:16:06.180 basically saying,
00:16:06.980 hey, we'd rather
00:16:07.460 just get along and
00:16:08.180 do trade and get
00:16:09.880 cheap Chinese goods
00:16:10.720 that actually hold
00:16:11.360 them account for
00:16:11.960 what they're doing
00:16:12.440 to Christians.
00:16:13.940 Well, that's
00:16:14.700 happening far too
00:16:15.560 often, and we've
00:16:16.240 discussed before in
00:16:17.040 this podcast the
00:16:18.740 persecution, the mass
00:16:19.840 murder of Christians 1.00
00:16:20.620 in Nigeria. 0.98
00:16:21.740 Nigeria, the most 1.00
00:16:22.820 Christians are 0.99
00:16:23.600 murdered for their 0.99
00:16:24.340 faith of any country
00:16:25.160 on earth, and I've
00:16:25.920 been leading the
00:16:26.560 effort to hold
00:16:27.680 Nigeria to account. 0.69
00:16:29.300 Well, in China, 0.65
00:16:30.160 likewise, for my
00:16:31.280 entire time in the
00:16:32.080 Senate, I've been
00:16:32.640 vocal speaking out for
00:16:33.760 Christians being
00:16:34.440 persecuted in China.
00:16:36.180 And this crackdown,
00:16:37.720 actually, next week,
00:16:38.920 President Trump is
00:16:40.520 going to Asia and
00:16:41.840 is going to meet
00:16:43.160 with President Xi
00:16:44.560 of China.
00:16:45.760 And so just this
00:16:47.200 past week, I
00:16:48.220 introduced a
00:16:49.000 bipartisan resolution
00:16:50.400 condemning China's 0.97
00:16:52.640 persecution of
00:16:54.720 Christians in 0.99
00:16:55.600 particular and
00:16:56.380 Pastor Jin.
00:16:57.200 And I was joined
00:16:59.040 by Chris Coons.
00:16:59.960 Chris is a
00:17:00.440 Democrat, and Chris
00:17:02.980 is someone who
00:17:03.740 cares deeply about
00:17:05.040 religious liberty.
00:17:06.000 And so we joined
00:17:06.760 together with a
00:17:07.420 bipartisan resolution
00:17:08.600 calling on China to 0.64
00:17:10.740 release Pastor Jin, to
00:17:12.320 stop targeting the
00:17:13.540 Zion Church, to
00:17:14.400 release the pastors
00:17:15.420 and the Christians
00:17:16.160 who've been
00:17:17.060 imprisoned, and to
00:17:18.820 cease engaging in
00:17:20.520 persecution of
00:17:22.780 religious liberty
00:17:24.020 writ broadly, and of
00:17:25.700 Christians in 0.99
00:17:26.260 particular.
00:17:27.340 It really is one of
00:17:28.960 those that is
00:17:29.780 frustrating.
00:17:30.380 And now this comes
00:17:31.040 back to the issue of
00:17:31.940 leverage.
00:17:32.520 Is this going to be
00:17:33.940 enough leverage to
00:17:34.920 possibly see a
00:17:36.580 change here?
00:17:37.180 Because one thing
00:17:38.080 that we've learned
00:17:38.660 is China only
00:17:39.920 responds when their
00:17:40.960 pocketbook gets
00:17:41.680 hurt, and if they
00:17:42.380 don't think we have
00:17:43.000 the political will to
00:17:44.000 stand up for
00:17:44.840 Christians, then 0.99
00:17:46.280 they're going to
00:17:46.800 continue to
00:17:47.280 persecute them no
00:17:48.120 matter what.
00:17:48.920 That's just their
00:17:49.760 M.O.
00:17:51.860 They are, but they
00:17:53.240 respond to pressure.
00:17:54.340 They respond to
00:17:55.060 pressure in two
00:17:56.280 forms.
00:17:56.780 Number one, to
00:17:57.320 being publicly
00:17:57.960 called out, to
00:17:59.200 having light shine on
00:18:00.720 their oppression, and
00:18:01.520 number two, they
00:18:02.020 respond to economic
00:18:02.900 leverage, and
00:18:03.480 President Trump is
00:18:04.240 very effective at
00:18:05.300 employing economic
00:18:06.260 leverage.
00:18:06.680 I think we
00:18:07.040 should do both.
00:18:08.440 Our bipartisan
00:18:09.380 resolution is aimed
00:18:12.120 at, quote, expressing
00:18:13.220 condemnation of the
00:18:14.280 Chinese Communist 0.72
00:18:14.960 Party's persecution of
00:18:16.200 Christians and
00:18:17.460 reaffirming the United
00:18:18.540 States' global
00:18:19.540 commitment to promote
00:18:20.840 religious freedom and
00:18:22.520 tolerance.
00:18:23.320 And it also includes
00:18:24.280 a demand that the
00:18:25.380 Chinese Communist 0.72
00:18:26.240 Party respect the
00:18:28.240 human right to
00:18:29.020 freedom of religion
00:18:29.780 and end all forms of
00:18:32.260 violence and
00:18:32.940 discrimination against
00:18:34.360 religious minorities.
00:18:36.240 And the resolution
00:18:37.340 notes, the CCP's
00:18:39.540 actions mark the
00:18:41.120 largest coordinated
00:18:42.560 nationwide crackdown
00:18:44.080 against a Christian 1.00
00:18:45.320 urban house church
00:18:46.640 in more than 40
00:18:48.940 years.
00:18:50.800 It also notes that
00:18:51.980 the U.S.
00:18:52.400 Commission on
00:18:52.900 International Religious
00:18:53.820 Freedom designated
00:18:55.260 China as a country of,
00:18:57.380 quote, particular
00:18:58.100 concern for religious
00:18:59.380 freedom every single
00:19:01.300 year since 1998.
00:19:03.100 And Pastor Jin of the
00:19:06.000 Zion Church was
00:19:07.600 detained by Chinese
00:19:08.840 authorities.
00:19:10.520 And indeed, that
00:19:13.240 came as nearly 30
00:19:14.780 Zion Church pastors
00:19:16.260 and workers were
00:19:17.660 likewise detained or
00:19:19.060 went missing across
00:19:20.860 Beijing, Xinjiang,
00:19:22.540 Shanghai, Chengdu,
00:19:24.140 Beihai, Jingxing, and
00:19:26.700 Huangdo.
00:19:27.460 And I apologize for my
00:19:29.220 Chinese pronunciation.
00:19:30.600 We'll forgive you.
00:19:33.380 But here's what
00:19:35.460 Grace Jin said
00:19:36.540 about this,
00:19:38.560 and she's Pastor
00:19:39.120 Jin's daughter.
00:19:41.200 One after another,
00:19:42.780 they were also
00:19:43.300 taken,
00:19:44.300 detained,
00:19:45.220 like they were
00:19:45.960 saying that they
00:19:46.800 were people outside
00:19:47.840 the doors,
00:19:48.580 then one at a time,
00:19:49.920 they were taken
00:19:50.680 into custody.
00:19:52.640 This is wrong.
00:19:54.740 And President Trump
00:19:56.240 has an opportunity
00:19:57.060 when he is in Asia,
00:19:58.520 when he is with
00:19:59.360 President Xi, to
00:20:00.940 call on President
00:20:01.720 Xi to release
00:20:02.780 these pastors,
00:20:04.300 release Pastor Jin,
00:20:05.500 release the Christians 1.00
00:20:06.320 who are being
00:20:06.840 persecuted, and stop
00:20:08.780 persecuting people of
00:20:10.240 faith.
00:20:10.700 And I think the
00:20:11.760 United States has a
00:20:13.600 responsibility to be a
00:20:15.020 voice for religious
00:20:15.840 liberty across the
00:20:16.800 country, to defend
00:20:17.820 Christians when they're 1.00
00:20:19.400 persecuted, to defend
00:20:20.620 Jews when they're 1.00
00:20:21.340 persecuted, to defend
00:20:22.640 people of faith all
00:20:24.220 across the world.
00:20:26.040 You know, you look at
00:20:26.800 radical Islamic 0.86
00:20:27.560 terrorists, many of 0.97
00:20:28.540 them target and
00:20:29.800 persecute other 0.99
00:20:30.680 Muslims who are not 1.00
00:20:31.880 violent.
00:20:33.060 And I think religious
00:20:34.560 persecution is wrong
00:20:36.140 regardless of who the
00:20:38.040 victims are, and we
00:20:39.840 should be a voice for
00:20:41.480 religious liberty.
00:20:42.380 Now, that doesn't mean
00:20:43.440 that America should go
00:20:45.360 and invade China to try 0.68
00:20:47.540 to break the pastor out
00:20:48.520 of jail, but there are
00:20:49.600 lots of tools that the
00:20:50.740 president can use,
00:20:52.500 including the bully
00:20:53.900 pulpit of the
00:20:54.540 presidency, including
00:20:55.540 shining a light, and
00:20:58.800 including also
00:21:00.520 economic leverage to
00:21:01.800 try to stop this
00:21:03.340 persecution, and I
00:21:04.340 very much hope
00:21:04.960 President Trump will
00:21:06.600 do so in the coming
00:21:07.400 week.
00:21:08.300 Yeah, you and I both
00:21:09.680 hope that.
00:21:10.300 Final question on
00:21:11.120 this.
00:21:12.300 As you watch
00:21:13.440 President Trump put
00:21:14.280 pressure, not just on
00:21:15.080 China, but other 0.94
00:21:15.560 countries, it does seem
00:21:16.780 to be that his
00:21:18.000 foreign policy now is
00:21:19.520 if there is a wrong
00:21:20.920 that needs to be
00:21:21.440 discussed, it's going
00:21:22.640 to be on the table
00:21:23.740 front and center.
00:21:24.380 That is pretty
00:21:25.720 different from what
00:21:26.400 we've seen in past
00:21:27.160 administrations where
00:21:28.060 they're like, well,
00:21:28.580 maybe it's not the time
00:21:29.360 to bring that up right
00:21:30.120 now.
00:21:30.440 He seems to be willing
00:21:31.340 to bring it all up.
00:21:33.440 You're absolutely
00:21:33.940 right, and strong
00:21:35.140 American leadership can
00:21:36.780 stand up to
00:21:37.720 tyrannies. 0.97
00:21:38.880 The Soviet Union was 0.88
00:21:40.040 terrified of Ronald
00:21:41.360 Reagan.
00:21:41.820 That's how we won the
00:21:42.580 Cold War without firing
00:21:43.640 a shot, and communist 0.54
00:21:44.640 China and our enemies 1.00
00:21:45.660 across the globe are
00:21:46.640 terrified of Donald
00:21:47.540 Trump, and that's why
00:21:48.900 we're seeing such major
00:21:50.260 national security
00:21:51.040 improvements right now.
00:21:52.060 As before, if you
00:21:53.520 want to hear the rest
00:21:54.220 of this conversation
00:21:55.100 on this topic, you
00:21:56.460 can go back and
00:21:57.240 download the podcast
00:21:58.420 from early this week
00:21:59.260 to hear the entire
00:22:00.060 thing.
00:22:01.400 Canadian women are 1.00
00:22:02.440 looking for more, more
00:22:03.780 out of themselves,
00:22:04.640 their businesses, their
00:22:05.700 elected leaders, and the
00:22:06.940 world around them.
00:22:07.760 And that's why we're
00:22:08.400 thrilled to introduce
00:22:09.360 the Honest Talk podcast.
00:22:11.500 I'm Jennifer Stewart.
00:22:12.680 And I'm Catherine Clark.
00:22:13.900 And in this podcast, we
00:22:15.180 interview Canada's most
00:22:16.300 inspiring women.
00:22:17.640 Entrepreneurs, artists,
00:22:19.000 athletes, politicians, and
00:22:20.460 newsmakers, all at
00:22:21.620 different stages of
00:22:22.540 their journey.
00:22:23.380 So if you're looking
00:22:24.400 to connect, then we
00:22:25.440 hope you'll join us.
00:22:26.620 Listen to the Honest
00:22:27.300 Talk podcast on iHeart
00:22:28.600 Radio or wherever you
00:22:29.760 listen to your podcasts.
00:22:32.340 I want to get back to
00:22:33.640 the big story, number
00:22:34.900 three of the week you
00:22:35.720 may have missed.
00:22:36.980 All right, Senator, so
00:22:37.780 let's start with the big
00:22:39.360 news.
00:22:40.400 Where were you when you
00:22:41.880 found out that you were
00:22:43.580 spied on as part of
00:22:44.560 Jack Smith's investigation
00:22:45.600 into Donald Trump?
00:22:47.300 This clearly is a fishing
00:22:49.060 expedition.
00:22:50.440 And what were you told?
00:22:51.820 Have you been briefed on
00:22:52.940 this?
00:22:53.200 Are you just getting the
00:22:53.960 same intel we are from
00:22:55.140 reading it in the news?
00:22:56.700 So I found out about this
00:22:58.700 last week, last Thursday.
00:22:59.980 I got the information.
00:23:01.180 And let's back up a couple
00:23:02.180 of weeks ago.
00:23:02.740 A couple of weeks ago, the
00:23:04.140 news broke that Jack
00:23:06.340 Smith, the prosecutor in
00:23:08.220 the Biden DOJ that was
00:23:09.600 going after January 6th,
00:23:11.280 that was going after
00:23:11.980 President Trump, had
00:23:13.980 subpoenaed eight senators
00:23:15.760 and one Republican House
00:23:17.020 member and had gotten
00:23:18.120 their cell phone records.
00:23:20.220 And the eight senators who
00:23:21.460 had been subpoenaed were
00:23:22.400 Marsha Blackburn, Ron
00:23:23.820 Johnson, Bill Haggerty,
00:23:25.720 Josh Hawley, Cynthia
00:23:27.180 Lummis, Lindsey Graham,
00:23:29.220 Dan Sullivan, and Tommy
00:23:30.520 Tuberville.
00:23:31.140 And then Mike Kelly, a
00:23:32.900 Republican House member
00:23:33.680 from Pennsylvania, was
00:23:34.600 also subpoenaed.
00:23:36.200 All nine of them had their
00:23:37.940 cell phone records handed
00:23:39.220 over to the Biden
00:23:40.360 Department of Justice.
00:23:42.100 Now, I got to admit, just
00:23:43.660 over a week ago, Sean
00:23:44.940 Hannity was in town and
00:23:46.300 I had dinner with Sean
00:23:47.720 and with several of
00:23:50.800 the senators on that
00:23:52.380 list as well.
00:23:53.880 And I was laughing with
00:23:55.760 Sean.
00:23:56.100 I was saying, I'm
00:23:57.020 actually kind of offended.
00:23:58.320 Like, how did I get
00:23:59.320 lift out of this list?
00:24:00.540 Like, what did I have to
00:24:01.980 do?
00:24:02.980 I was literally standing
00:24:05.520 on the Senate floor on
00:24:06.940 January 6th, objecting
00:24:08.840 and leading the fight.
00:24:10.720 And I had brought
00:24:11.380 together 11 senators to
00:24:13.840 stand together in fighting
00:24:15.300 for an election commission
00:24:17.200 to assess the evidence
00:24:18.460 of voter fraud, and
00:24:20.340 including many of the
00:24:21.960 senators who were
00:24:23.280 subpoenaed were in the
00:24:24.360 group that I'd brought
00:24:25.040 together.
00:24:25.520 So I was joking with
00:24:26.880 Sean, but I wasn't
00:24:27.580 entirely joking.
00:24:28.920 Well, it turns out the
00:24:30.260 reason I was not on the
00:24:31.260 list is apparently all
00:24:32.580 eight of those senators,
00:24:33.700 their cell phones are with
00:24:34.940 Verizon.
00:24:36.500 And the evidence had come
00:24:37.760 out that Verizon had
00:24:38.720 handed over their cell phone
00:24:40.160 information.
00:24:40.580 Well, my cell phone is
00:24:42.420 with AT&T, and I didn't
00:24:45.020 know it at the time, but I
00:24:46.280 found out late last week
00:24:47.620 that Jack Smith sent a
00:24:49.680 subpoena to AT&T demanding
00:24:51.980 my cell phone records, and
00:24:54.440 AT&T told them to go jump
00:24:55.680 in a lake.
00:24:57.120 AT&T did not give my cell
00:25:00.460 phone records.
00:25:01.140 I really, look, AT&T is
00:25:02.620 based in Texas.
00:25:03.600 I'm proud of them.
00:25:04.320 They did the right thing.
00:25:05.220 I appreciate that.
00:25:06.200 And they assessed it.
00:25:10.080 They had a subpoena from
00:25:11.040 Jack Smith.
00:25:11.980 By the way, the subpoena
00:25:13.220 called for, quote,
00:25:16.160 detailed records for
00:25:18.120 inbound and outbound calls,
00:25:21.540 text messages, direct
00:25:23.460 connect, and voicemail
00:25:25.380 messages, among other
00:25:26.320 things.
00:25:27.200 So they were seeking that.
00:25:28.420 There was also an order
00:25:30.160 from Judge Boesberg, who
00:25:32.220 was, you know, this left-wing
00:25:33.800 judge who's been presiding
00:25:35.020 against, over much of the
00:25:36.640 litigation against, against
00:25:38.880 Trump, had an order from
00:25:40.860 Judge Boesberg ordering
00:25:42.020 AT&T, you cannot disclose
00:25:44.680 to Cruz that we're seeking
00:25:47.260 his cell phone information
00:25:48.380 for a year.
00:25:49.020 Isn't that amazing, by the
00:25:50.300 way?
00:25:50.500 You're sitting in the United 0.97
00:25:51.300 States center.
00:25:51.820 Don't tell him.
00:25:52.540 We don't want him to know.
00:25:54.080 Yes.
00:25:54.920 And so AT&T examined it, and
00:25:57.820 they actually, they came to
00:25:59.040 the conclusion.
00:25:59.720 Now, the way it works, so the
00:26:01.560 subpoena just comes, and they
00:26:03.300 get a cell phone number.
00:26:05.020 So, so, so the Biden DOJ
00:26:07.660 didn't identify who they
00:26:09.540 were seeking.
00:26:10.300 And, and by the way, look,
00:26:11.120 the telecom companies,
00:26:12.920 typically, if they get a
00:26:14.220 subpoena for, for phone
00:26:15.860 records on, on a number,
00:26:17.320 they typically hand it over
00:26:18.820 because it's usually a drug
00:26:19.780 dealer, a criminal, you have
00:26:20.880 a subpoena that's issued
00:26:21.880 from a grand jury.
00:26:22.760 So, so it, it, they will
00:26:25.080 routinely, in a criminal
00:26:26.260 proceeding, hand over.
00:26:29.440 Well, it so happened that,
00:26:30.600 that AT&T, even though they
00:26:31.820 just asked for the number,
00:26:32.900 they looked and realized
00:26:33.920 whose number it was.
00:26:35.720 And, and, and they talked
00:26:37.860 with their legal team, and,
00:26:39.920 and, and they said, listen,
00:26:41.360 what, what Cruz is saying
00:26:42.740 is it, and any member of
00:26:44.280 Congress, what, what they're
00:26:45.260 saying is protected by the
00:26:46.580 speech and debate clause
00:26:47.640 of the Constitution.
00:26:49.120 The Constitution protects
00:26:50.560 the ability of, of, of
00:26:53.160 senators and House members
00:26:54.320 to engage in debate, to,
00:26:55.980 to do our jobs.
00:26:57.740 Article 1 of the Constitution
00:26:59.340 vests all legislative power
00:27:01.400 in the Congress.
00:27:03.600 And, and, in fact, we, you
00:27:05.400 know, on January 6th, it, it
00:27:06.980 was very literally speech
00:27:08.380 and debate.
00:27:08.780 As I said, I was standing
00:27:09.900 on the Senate floor.
00:27:11.260 Yeah.
00:27:11.880 Giving a speech and raising
00:27:13.280 an objection.
00:27:13.760 So it's literally the heart
00:27:15.060 of what one does as an
00:27:17.420 elected member of Congress.
00:27:18.520 And, and so AT&T concluded,
00:27:21.840 listen, they're, we're not
00:27:23.260 going to comply.
00:27:24.620 As I said, I'm grateful for
00:27:26.400 AT&T doing that.
00:27:27.620 But that now makes it nine
00:27:29.320 senators that we know of.
00:27:31.400 And one House member.
00:27:31.980 So I'm guessing there might
00:27:33.460 be other senators that were 0.58
00:27:34.260 also at AT&T and they
00:27:35.320 probably said, no, we're not
00:27:36.420 going to do that either.
00:27:37.060 Right.
00:27:37.280 It would be Verizon just
00:27:38.720 caved instantly and said,
00:27:39.820 sure, here's everybody you're
00:27:40.820 asking for.
00:27:41.660 There could be easily, I
00:27:42.880 would say another four or
00:27:43.780 five, six others who knows
00:27:45.720 how many outside the Senate,
00:27:47.180 right, that they could have
00:27:47.980 asked for, that they could
00:27:48.860 have said no to as well.
00:27:49.940 And I would assume there
00:27:51.000 was a lot of people on AT&T.
00:27:52.900 Well, and, and look, the,
00:27:54.320 the, the, the Biden DOJ
00:27:55.740 also went after, went after
00:27:57.700 the Republican Attorney
00:27:58.520 General's Association.
00:27:59.440 It went after Turning Point
00:28:00.800 USA.
00:28:01.700 This was a massive
00:28:03.460 fishing expedition.
00:28:05.520 And, and this was a, a, a
00:28:07.360 political persecution.
00:28:08.660 Understand, Jack Smith was
00:28:10.400 appointed special counsel to
00:28:11.840 investigate and prosecute
00:28:12.980 January 6th.
00:28:14.740 Three days after Donald Trump
00:28:17.960 announced his campaign for
00:28:19.920 reelection in 2024.
00:28:21.580 Literally three days later.
00:28:22.860 So it was 2022.
00:28:24.380 So it was two years after
00:28:25.780 January 6th.
00:28:26.640 They had not appointed
00:28:27.240 anyone.
00:28:27.720 And yet suddenly when Trump
00:28:28.980 announces his campaign, they
00:28:30.820 rushed to appoint Jack Smith
00:28:32.260 to say, go after Donald Trump
00:28:33.860 because we want to stop the
00:28:35.560 voters from, from voting for
00:28:37.520 him.
00:28:38.260 Sure.
00:28:38.520 But, but nine senators, that
00:28:40.220 is 20% of the Republicans in
00:28:42.940 the United States Senate.
00:28:43.880 And, and I got to say for the
00:28:45.280 executive branch to engage in
00:28:49.340 wholesale spying on their
00:28:52.680 political opponents and spying
00:28:55.280 with, let's be clear, none of
00:28:57.500 us engaged in criminal conduct.
00:28:59.760 None of us can engage in
00:29:00.720 anything remotely criminal,
00:29:02.360 arguably criminal.
00:29:03.760 This was political persecution.
00:29:05.780 This was snooping.
00:29:06.980 This is hoping someone said
00:29:09.220 something.
00:29:09.780 Here's what I was going to ask
00:29:10.780 you.
00:29:11.060 What were they hoping to find?
00:29:13.040 Right?
00:29:13.300 Like you go fishing and, and
00:29:15.120 what, what is the smoking gun in
00:29:16.680 that scenario?
00:29:17.160 They were, they were just, Hey,
00:29:18.860 we'll just go after all these
00:29:20.000 conservatives and maybe we get
00:29:22.160 lucky.
00:29:23.220 Look, I don't know what they
00:29:24.820 were hoping to find, but, but,
00:29:26.240 but they were asking for the
00:29:28.320 cell phone records from, from
00:29:29.880 January 4th to January 7th.
00:29:31.820 So all surrounding January 6th,
00:29:33.860 I assume they were looking for
00:29:35.920 some, some modicum of
00:29:37.820 coordination, uh, with, with,
00:29:40.440 with those who engage in active
00:29:41.800 violence on that day.
00:29:43.540 Um, part of their theory was,
00:29:46.360 was the alternate electors that
00:29:48.060 were being sent from various
00:29:49.240 states.
00:29:49.620 So I assume they were looking
00:29:50.760 for some modicum of
00:29:52.580 coordination there, but, but
00:29:54.460 this was a political
00:29:55.700 prosecution because they did
00:29:58.180 not have evidence.
00:29:59.600 And so they said, well, let's,
00:30:01.160 let's go through their cell
00:30:02.080 phone records and see if we
00:30:03.880 can find something.
00:30:04.660 And by the way, who knows if,
00:30:05.960 if, if somebody had sent 0.99
00:30:07.340 something stupid, text, had a 0.99
00:30:10.420 voicemail, had, uh, you know, 1.00
00:30:12.340 I mean, people, when you go
00:30:14.580 through someone's emails, when
00:30:16.380 you go through someone's
00:30:17.500 cell phones, when prosecutors
00:30:19.380 go looking for a crime, um,
00:30:24.200 the, the nature of a phishing
00:30:25.700 expedition is let's go look
00:30:27.220 around, you know, there's a
00:30:27.980 book that was written decades
00:30:29.100 ago, uh, that, that, that's
00:30:31.640 called Three Felonies a Day.
00:30:33.500 And, and it talks about how the
00:30:35.340 average American commits three
00:30:36.780 felonies a day, that, that in
00:30:38.040 our regulatory state, things are
00:30:39.360 so complicated, things are so
00:30:40.960 mired in complexity that, that,
00:30:43.540 that you can violate, you know,
00:30:45.660 you, you step on a wetland in
00:30:47.180 your backyard and, and, and,
00:30:48.740 and, you know, there's an old
00:30:51.140 line that a prosecutor can
00:30:53.600 indict a ham sandwich.
00:30:55.240 Yeah.
00:30:55.720 That, that a prosecutor goes in
00:30:57.180 front of a grand jury.
00:30:58.160 When a prosecutor goes in front
00:30:59.300 of a grand jury, you know,
00:31:00.240 there's no defense attorney
00:31:01.120 there.
00:31:01.780 It's just the prosecutor and
00:31:03.360 members of the grand jury.
00:31:04.320 And so I don't know what they
00:31:06.320 were looking for.
00:31:06.980 I think they were looking for
00:31:07.880 anything that could stick
00:31:09.440 because this was a political
00:31:11.460 prosecution.
00:31:12.720 Let me ask you this.
00:31:14.280 And so, Ben, I just want to
00:31:16.100 say, I'm really grateful they
00:31:18.660 did not find the pictures you
00:31:21.240 sent of me of you in a pink
00:31:22.860 tutu, because I just think that
00:31:24.780 it's not criminal.
00:31:26.540 All the Ivy League jokes that I
00:31:27.680 send you about the Ivy League
00:31:29.480 snobs.
00:31:30.160 I mean, Jack Smith probably ended
00:31:31.640 up going to one of those places.
00:31:32.840 That could have been very bad
00:31:33.960 for me.
00:31:35.020 I, I, it, you know, it, it,
00:31:36.980 it would have been, uh, and,
00:31:39.540 and, and, and I got to say
00:31:40.860 just the typos and misspellings
00:31:42.920 that, that, that you have in
00:31:43.900 your text, that, that alone
00:31:45.420 would have been, been a little
00:31:46.500 bit embarrassing too.
00:31:47.600 So I'm glad none of that came
00:31:48.960 out.
00:31:49.000 The good news is they're very
00:31:50.300 hard to decipher when you're,
00:31:51.760 if they're, if it's in front of,
00:31:53.160 you know, Congress, like it's
00:31:54.320 what was Ben really trying to
00:31:55.740 say.
00:31:55.980 And I'm like, you're welcome.
00:31:57.020 I will tell you that I talked
00:31:59.740 to AT&T today and I said, look,
00:32:01.680 you guys ought to start a
00:32:02.620 marketing campaign of shift to
00:32:04.140 AT&T.
00:32:04.800 We'll, we'll protect your
00:32:06.060 stuff.
00:32:06.460 Like, yeah, we don't, like
00:32:07.360 kudos to them.
00:32:09.280 I look, I, I don't have a good
00:32:11.780 answer to that, but, but, but,
00:32:13.280 but I did, uh, and I didn't
00:32:15.080 know about this until just a
00:32:16.300 few days ago.
00:32:16.840 So this was when the first
00:32:19.000 news broke, I, like, I was
00:32:20.760 joking that I felt excluded,
00:32:22.100 but it wasn't entirely a joke.
00:32:23.640 And then I was like, oh, okay,
00:32:25.080 that makes sense.
00:32:25.760 And, and, uh, and here we
00:32:27.780 are.
00:32:28.260 All right.
00:32:28.560 Final question on this.
00:32:30.620 What is going to be the
00:32:31.840 response from Congress?
00:32:34.400 Will there be any to this?
00:32:35.840 Or is this just old
00:32:36.820 administration, abuse of
00:32:38.040 power?
00:32:38.660 It is what it is.
00:32:39.720 We're going to move on.
00:32:40.840 Or is there going to be a way
00:32:41.880 to make sure, like, we have
00:32:43.020 standards that this is not
00:32:44.080 allowed to happen and that
00:32:45.740 people are held accountable
00:32:46.620 for this?
00:32:47.680 Look, I think we're going to
00:32:48.420 see hearings.
00:32:49.400 Uh, I think we've, we've,
00:32:50.920 we've got hearings coming in
00:32:52.460 the house.
00:32:52.880 I think we'll see hearings in
00:32:53.980 the Senate.
00:32:54.580 I will tell you the nine of
00:32:56.180 us who were targeted, we're,
00:32:57.500 we're talking to each other
00:32:58.640 because we want to prevent
00:32:59.900 this.
00:33:00.240 We want to prevent a, a 1.00
00:33:01.860 subsequent DOJ from doing
00:33:03.740 this, from spying on their
00:33:05.320 political opponents,
00:33:06.540 particularly in, in Congress.
00:33:08.300 The executive doesn't have
00:33:09.660 the ability to go engage in
00:33:11.620 spying, uh, on, on, on, on
00:33:13.700 members of the opposing
00:33:14.600 party in Congress.
00:33:15.500 That is an abuse of power.
00:33:17.540 It, it, it, it is, it is
00:33:19.540 politicization.
00:33:20.800 Uh, and, and this, the, the,
00:33:23.420 this entire effort.
00:33:25.700 So, so this prosecution was
00:33:28.460 called Arctic Frost.
00:33:29.680 And, and I think this is going
00:33:30.900 to be the water gate of the
00:33:32.200 Biden DOJ.
00:33:33.400 I, I think it is a
00:33:35.080 demonstration that Jack
00:33:36.860 Smith was a partisan
00:33:39.160 prosecutor who was drunk on
00:33:40.920 power.
00:33:41.560 And, and, and, and I don't
00:33:43.860 believe Jack Smith made this
00:33:45.220 decision on his own.
00:33:46.340 I think the decision making
00:33:47.560 goes all the way up.
00:33:48.660 I think it goes up to the
00:33:49.600 attorney general.
00:33:50.220 I think it goes up to the
00:33:51.140 White House.
00:33:51.800 And, and, and so I expect
00:33:53.400 number one, some, some real
00:33:54.840 investigation and hopefully
00:33:56.020 transparency in terms of who
00:33:57.680 approved, let's go spy on
00:33:59.960 members of Congress.
00:34:00.720 And, and, and, and, and
00:34:02.180 that, that I think we're
00:34:04.660 going to work to have some
00:34:05.540 real transparency on.
00:34:06.700 And then I think we're going
00:34:07.600 to look at real and concrete
00:34:09.000 steps we can take to make
00:34:10.580 sure this never happens again,
00:34:11.840 because this kind of abuse.
00:34:13.160 Is there, is there part of
00:34:13.880 you that just thinks like,
00:34:15.480 maybe this has just been
00:34:16.620 going on and never really
00:34:17.860 stopped after, after, you
00:34:19.380 know, the, the, the, the
00:34:20.900 famous FBI director that had,
00:34:22.700 you know, files on everybody.
00:34:24.160 Uh, and, and, and people
00:34:25.760 said, well, we won't have
00:34:27.100 that again after, after
00:34:28.200 Jagger.
00:34:28.780 And, and, and now it's
00:34:30.200 like, they're just like
00:34:31.040 they wild west.
00:34:32.640 You can do whatever the hell
00:34:33.140 you want to.
00:34:33.700 If you're a Democrat and
00:34:34.440 you're in charge, like we
00:34:35.440 can spy on the president,
00:34:36.320 we can spy on the
00:34:36.820 campaigns.
00:34:37.560 We can go after people in
00:34:39.000 the situation room and
00:34:40.040 entrap them.
00:34:40.720 We can try to go after
00:34:41.920 their business associates
00:34:42.700 and their kids and get
00:34:43.720 them to turn against them.
00:34:44.700 Like Eric Trump was
00:34:46.040 talking about that on our
00:34:46.740 show the other day.
00:34:47.300 If you miss that show,
00:34:48.060 people should go back and
00:34:48.900 listen to it.
00:34:49.380 He's like, they were
00:34:49.880 literally trying to turn
00:34:51.100 Donald Trump's own
00:34:52.300 children against him
00:34:53.940 threatening that your
00:34:54.720 life's going to be over
00:34:55.580 and you're going to be in
00:34:56.120 jail.
00:34:56.460 So you better get a, get
00:34:57.360 out of jail free card.
00:34:58.460 And now it's like, yeah,
00:34:59.560 and we were also spying on
00:35:00.660 senators.
00:35:01.240 I'm assuming some
00:35:02.120 congressmen will come out
00:35:03.160 like who knows who's
00:35:04.520 there.
00:35:05.120 We, I mean, Charlie Kirk
00:35:06.520 said recently before his
00:35:09.420 assassination, it came out
00:35:10.880 that he said during the
00:35:11.740 campaign, we either win
00:35:13.000 the campaign or I may go
00:35:14.280 to jail.
00:35:15.100 I actually believe now
00:35:17.600 witnessing what we've
00:35:18.600 seen that that's not far
00:35:19.820 off from reality at all.
00:35:21.760 Look, the left was
00:35:24.060 willing to weaponize the
00:35:25.620 Department of Justice
00:35:26.460 and the FBI.
00:35:27.280 As you know, I wrote an
00:35:28.120 entire book entitled
00:35:29.240 Justice Corrupted, How
00:35:30.400 the Left Has Weaponized
00:35:31.380 Our Legal System.
00:35:32.460 And it talked about it
00:35:33.660 actually started with
00:35:34.480 Richard Nixon.
00:35:35.200 Richard Nixon tried to do
00:35:36.640 that.
00:35:36.960 And you look at some of
00:35:38.100 the, some of the
00:35:39.280 harebrained schemes that
00:35:40.660 the Nixon Justice
00:35:41.580 Department came up with,
00:35:42.900 including creating
00:35:44.800 underground stings to, to, 0.98
00:35:47.160 to get people, to, to
00:35:49.560 get people on film, taking
00:35:51.400 drugs and with
00:35:52.360 prostitutes to use to 0.98
00:35:53.860 essentially blackmail them 0.99
00:35:55.060 and to go after their
00:35:56.340 political opponents.
00:35:56.980 I mean, it was grotesque
00:35:58.480 abuse of power.
00:35:59.740 And, and, and when, when
00:36:01.220 that came to light, we
00:36:02.560 actually saw an
00:36:03.380 improvement.
00:36:03.800 And there were a couple
00:36:04.540 of decades where I think
00:36:05.720 this, this receded and
00:36:07.880 occurred far less.
00:36:09.480 And, and then what Richard
00:36:11.920 Nixon tried to do to the 1.00
00:36:13.800 justice system, Barack Obama
00:36:15.240 succeeded in doing, he came
00:36:17.180 in as this, this almost
00:36:19.180 Messiah figure and, and,
00:36:21.300 and, and DOJ, Eric Holder
00:36:24.020 as his attorney general, you
00:36:25.040 had Lois Lerner at, at the
00:36:26.840 IRS.
00:36:27.220 They began targeting their
00:36:29.020 political opponents,
00:36:30.120 targeting, targeting anyone
00:36:31.700 that they disagreed with and
00:36:33.140 also protecting their
00:36:34.040 friends.
00:36:34.920 During the Trump
00:36:35.800 administration, the first
00:36:36.920 term they went underground,
00:36:38.080 but they waged war on the
00:36:40.440 president.
00:36:40.880 These are the people that
00:36:41.720 created fraudulent documents
00:36:43.400 submitted to the FISA court.
00:36:45.080 in order to, in order to try
00:36:46.900 to go after President
00:36:48.020 Trump.
00:36:48.460 They wanted to reverse the
00:36:50.900 results of the 2016 election
00:36:52.580 because they were furious that
00:36:53.840 the American people elected
00:36:54.840 Trump.
00:36:55.460 And then during Biden, they
00:36:56.960 were open, they were flagrant,
00:36:58.500 they were out in the open and
00:36:59.700 they were, they were abusing
00:37:00.740 their power.
00:37:01.300 And I think they felt that the
00:37:03.080 ends justified the means and,
00:37:05.800 and, and anything was, was
00:37:08.220 acceptable.
00:37:08.860 And, and, and so I think we
00:37:10.220 need to take real steps.
00:37:11.860 Do I think this has been going
00:37:13.000 on forever and ever?
00:37:14.060 I don't, I certainly hope not.
00:37:15.680 I'm not aware that it has.
00:37:17.400 There is, there, there, there's
00:37:20.100 ancient history, but it took
00:37:21.720 really, I think under Biden to,
00:37:24.200 to make it just as, as
00:37:26.100 viciously partisan as it became.
00:37:28.940 Yes.
00:37:29.700 Yeah.
00:37:30.220 It wills came off and no one
00:37:31.560 cared about the rules anymore.
00:37:32.900 Clearly it's, it's incredible.
00:37:34.600 As always, thank you for
00:37:36.400 listening to verdict with Senator
00:37:38.040 Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with
00:37:39.640 you.
00:37:39.800 Don't forget to download my
00:37:41.000 podcast and you can listen to
00:37:42.300 my podcast every other day.
00:37:43.440 You're not listening to verdict
00:37:44.320 or each day when you listen to
00:37:45.640 verdict afterwards, I'd love to
00:37:47.400 have you as a listener to again,
00:37:49.180 the Ben Ferguson podcast, and we
00:37:50.740 will see you back here on Monday
00:37:52.600 morning.
00:37:53.000 This is an I heart podcast
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