Verdict with Ted Cruz - September 17, 2025


CNN Insists ＂Who can tell the Motive？＂ of Charlie Kirk's Murderer plus ＂Loving＂ Texts between the Murderer & His Boyfriend


Episode Stats

Length

38 minutes

Words per Minute

183.1435

Word Count

7,123

Sentence Count

589

Misogynist Sentences

8

Hate Speech Sentences

7


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.620 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.340 Welcome.
00:00:06.060 It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.
00:00:09.080 So nice to have you with us.
00:00:10.660 And just so you guys know, we are doing almost every episode now on YouTube as well.
00:00:15.980 So if you want to watch this show, you can do it on YouTube as well.
00:00:20.660 This episode we're doing right now is on YouTube and on audio downloads wherever you get your
00:00:25.260 podcast.
00:00:25.820 So we'll remind you about that.
00:00:27.040 But we're certainly very, very, very excited about that.
00:00:30.000 Senator, we've got a lot to chat about tonight, including you going into the lion's den where
00:00:34.280 I lived for seven years.
00:00:36.360 At first, I got a text from someone that said, hey, what bet did Ted Cruz lose to go on CNN
00:00:41.280 with Caitlin Collins?
00:00:42.540 That's actually a very good question.
00:00:44.480 It was not with me.
00:00:46.100 It would have been a great bet.
00:00:47.320 All of a sudden, I get text message.
00:00:49.620 You're on there.
00:00:50.160 I start watching.
00:00:51.180 And it was some fireworks.
00:00:53.400 Well, tonight I went on CNN with Caitlin Collins.
00:00:56.080 And I did so because CNN has been pushing so much misinformation in the wake of Charlie
00:01:02.380 Kirk's assassination that I wanted to go on and push back.
00:01:06.100 And they've been big on the whole both sides-ism that it's really both sides.
00:01:11.800 It's Republicans and Democrats that are engaging in violence.
00:01:14.660 It's Republicans and Democrats that engage in hateful, violent rhetoric.
00:01:18.140 And so both sides are equally responsible.
00:01:21.640 And that is a lie.
00:01:23.080 On our podcast just two days ago, we broke that down at length.
00:01:26.660 Well, tonight I went on CNN to battle with Caitlin Collins.
00:01:30.480 And I got to say, she screamed at me.
00:01:33.000 She interrupted me.
00:01:34.460 She did not want the facts.
00:01:36.220 She did not want to admit any of the reality.
00:01:39.620 She had a political narrative and she was going to stick with it.
00:01:43.280 We're going to play that for you.
00:01:44.380 And you're going to see the back and forth that we had.
00:01:46.200 We're also going to play what was released earlier this evening, which is the text exchanges
00:01:52.020 between Charlie's murderer and his transgender boyfriend.
00:01:57.380 And the text exchanges, it is a confession.
00:02:00.460 He admits he's the murderer.
00:02:02.140 He breaks down the details of what was involved in the aftermath of the shooting.
00:02:06.720 And we're also going to talk about how ABC News gushed about it, treating the two of
00:02:13.040 them like Romeo and Juliet.
00:02:14.560 They behaved like teenagers, pitter-patter.
00:02:17.500 Oh, how exciting.
00:02:19.020 The two of these sick individuals talking about how excited they were to have just murdered
00:02:25.820 your friend and mine, the great Charlie Kirk.
00:02:29.220 I want to tell you real quick about the IFCJ.
00:02:32.500 And it's hard to believe it's been nearly two years ago since the terrorists that murdered
00:02:37.500 more than 1,200 innocent Israelis and took 250 hostages actually happened.
00:02:43.460 Today, it seems as if the cries of the dead and the dying have been drowned out by the
00:02:47.840 shouts of anti-Semitism and hatred.
00:02:50.660 And the most brutal attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust has been forgotten already
00:02:55.540 by many.
00:02:56.400 And that's by design for many around the world.
00:02:58.980 Yet the world looks away, and we still need to help those and shine a light in the darkness.
00:03:06.620 It's a movement of love and support that I want you to get involved in for the people
00:03:11.520 of Israel.
00:03:12.240 And it is called the Flags of Fellowship.
00:03:15.140 And it's organized by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.
00:03:18.260 On October the 5th, it's just a few weeks away, literally millions across America will prayerfully
00:03:24.980 plant an Israeli flag in honor and solidarity with the victims of October the 7th of 2023
00:03:30.900 and stand with their grieving families.
00:03:34.360 And you can be a part of this movement as well.
00:03:37.200 Your church can be a part of this movement as well.
00:03:40.340 If you want to get more information about how you can join the Flags of Fellowship movement,
00:03:45.200 visit the Fellowship online at ifcj.org.
00:03:50.120 And you can get what you need, the resources to stand with Israel on this important day
00:03:55.520 as we stand with them all over the country.
00:03:58.560 That's ifcj.org.
00:04:00.800 One more time, ifcj.org.
00:04:03.500 And you can also get your church involved as so many churches around the country are now
00:04:08.400 doing this for their entire congregations.
00:04:11.280 Ifcj.org.
00:04:12.880 All right, so let's go to just point one here.
00:04:16.180 You decided to go on CNN.
00:04:18.260 Now, what's interesting about this interview that you did, Senator, is actually the fact
00:04:22.880 that you guys were not in the same room.
00:04:25.920 Typically, there's a good chance you guys would have been.
00:04:28.900 Caitlin was in the UK for the presidential trip there.
00:04:32.560 There was a little bit of a delay.
00:04:34.680 What was not delayed is her anger at you and what you were saying and the yelling at you.
00:04:39.920 Even across the pond, she's still on point with that one.
00:04:43.860 Yeah.
00:04:44.040 And listen, Ben, for this kind of interview, I will almost always insist that it be in
00:04:48.040 person.
00:04:48.860 Yeah.
00:04:49.040 Because if I know that someone is going to be an antagonistic partisan hack, then I want
00:04:56.460 to be in person to be able to fight back.
00:04:58.420 I agreed to do this even though she was in the United Kingdom and there was about a two-second
00:05:03.220 delay.
00:05:03.680 So it made it hard.
00:05:04.460 A downside of this interview is their extended portions were basically yelling over each other
00:05:10.960 because of the delay.
00:05:12.880 I actually thought she'd want to do a decent interview and so she wouldn't just scream at
00:05:17.560 me.
00:05:17.740 If you've got a delay, you ask a question, you get an answer.
00:05:22.140 You ask another question, you get an answer.
00:05:24.100 That's how actually you and I have done interviews.
00:05:26.900 We've interviewed people live from Israel, from Jerusalem, right after October 7th, halfway
00:05:33.460 around the world.
00:05:34.520 We've managed to do the interview.
00:05:35.920 And if you actually want to interview someone, you don't scream and interrupt them.
00:05:40.220 Well, Caitlin has been complicit in CNN's propaganda.
00:05:45.740 They have been misleading and lying to the American people.
00:05:49.580 And it's why I wanted to do this.
00:05:51.360 It's why I agreed to do this.
00:05:53.440 She's been asking me, her show's been asking me to go on for some time.
00:05:56.620 I've usually said, no, no, thank you.
00:05:58.380 No, thank you.
00:05:58.920 No, thank you.
00:05:59.480 I decided to go on today because I think what they've been doing after the Charlie Kirk
00:06:04.940 assassination has been incredibly dishonest and harmful.
00:06:08.640 And I had hoped that we would have a conversation as mature adults.
00:06:13.980 Sadly, we did not.
00:06:15.860 And so we're going to play the whole thing.
00:06:17.100 And by the way, the number one line that just people, so they understand the lie that's
00:06:19.600 been told, and it's been propaganda 101 on CNN, is that we don't know the motive of the
00:06:26.120 shooter, and you're insane if you act like you know the motive.
00:06:28.800 She claims we have no idea what motive.
00:06:30.920 Who could know?
00:06:31.980 Who could know?
00:06:32.740 Across all of their shows, by the way, like all of their shows are like lots of stuff in
00:06:36.500 this.
00:06:36.680 It's idiocy.
00:06:36.980 It is idiocy.
00:06:38.660 So we're going to play the entire interview.
00:06:41.020 It is fairly lengthy.
00:06:43.440 And there's some fireworks and there's some moments where we're yelling over each other.
00:06:46.840 But I think this is really important to push back on the dishonesty from CNN and MSNBC and
00:06:53.420 ABC, NBC, CBS.
00:06:55.160 And so give a listen.
00:06:57.220 My interview tonight with Caitlin Collins on CNN.
00:07:00.560 And joining me now is Senator Ted Cruz.
00:07:02.920 And Senator, I think you've probably been part of some theatrical moments of your own
00:07:06.260 in some of those hearings.
00:07:07.220 Obviously, it got quite contentious in points today.
00:07:10.580 But what you were arguing there and what you were talking there about with the director
00:07:13.760 Cash Patel was actually something President Trump himself talked about five years ago when
00:07:18.320 he said the U.S. was going to designate Antifa as a terrorist organization.
00:07:22.740 You and Senator Cassidy had actually introduced a resolution calling for that one year before.
00:07:28.000 Do you know why it didn't happen then?
00:07:29.900 And do you expect it to happen now?
00:07:32.520 You know, I do think it's going to happen now.
00:07:34.200 And I'm urging the Department of Justice and the FBI and the entire administration to
00:07:38.100 do so.
00:07:39.080 And more broadly, what I'm urging them to do at the hearing today, what I urge Director
00:07:43.600 Patel to do is follow the money, that much of this violence that we've seen is not organic,
00:07:51.580 that there is real money that is funding it.
00:07:53.980 So the Black Lives Matter and Antifa riots all over the country, there was real money
00:07:58.160 behind that.
00:07:58.940 The anti-Israel, anti-Semitic riots on college campuses, there was real money behind that.
00:08:04.240 The open border riots we saw in L.A. and across the country, there's real money behind
00:08:08.420 that.
00:08:08.800 I'm not the only person who noticed that at the anti-Semitic protests on college campuses,
00:08:14.360 many of the tents all matched.
00:08:16.340 And so what I'm urging the Department of Justice to do is look at who's funding it.
00:08:20.840 And indeed, I've introduced legislation to aid in that.
00:08:24.100 It's called the Stop Funders Act.
00:08:25.800 And what that legislation would do is very simple.
00:08:28.280 It adds rioting to the list of predicate offenses under RICO, and that would enable the Department
00:08:35.720 of Justice to use RICO, a very powerful tool for going after organized crime, not just to
00:08:41.820 go after the people committing specific acts of violence, but to go after those who are
00:08:46.120 writing checks to foment that violence.
00:08:49.000 And I think that would have a massive effect, pulling back and limiting this violence.
00:08:55.040 Yeah, but can I ask you on just the Antifa part of this, what existing federal law would
00:08:59.640 give the president or the State Department the authority to be able to designate a domestic
00:09:04.340 group as a terrorist organization?
00:09:07.180 Is there one?
00:09:07.740 Well, what I've called for, they're clearly carrying out acts of terrorism.
00:09:12.320 They're carrying them out domestically.
00:09:13.940 They're organizing, they're engaged in direct acts of violence.
00:09:17.560 And indeed, one of the things that I asked Director Patel is, what evidence is there that
00:09:22.260 there are other people who had foreknowledge of this assassin's assassination of Charlie
00:09:28.580 Kirk?
00:09:28.960 We know that he was engaged in Reddit conversations with others.
00:09:32.500 And we know that the shell casings that he used in the rifle had Antifa slogans on them
00:09:39.860 and had transgender slogans on them.
00:09:42.400 And it appears from what's been reporting that there were extensive discussions in various
00:09:48.160 Reddit and Discord organizations to the extent others had foreknowledge and aided and assisted.
00:09:55.720 That may well be a manifestation of Antifa violence or transgender violence.
00:10:00.640 We've seen a disproportionate incident of transgender violence as well.
00:10:05.820 And so examining what groups potentially are behind these acts of violence, I think it is
00:10:13.180 overwhelmingly clear things like the anti-Semitic protest had money behind it.
00:10:17.060 With respect to Charlie Kirk's murder, that is not determined yet, but I think it should
00:10:21.220 be investigated very thoroughly.
00:10:23.680 Yeah.
00:10:24.040 As Todd Blanche, the Deputy Attorney General, just said, right now they don't have any evidence
00:10:27.720 of an organization.
00:10:28.560 Obviously, they're still looking into this.
00:10:30.900 But on the bullet casings, I don't remember there being a transgender one on there.
00:10:34.880 I remember him saying, there was one that said, if you could read this, you're gay.
00:10:37.940 It was referencing internet memes.
00:10:39.560 But on what you just said there about investigating groups and who's funding, if there is funding.
00:10:45.520 Hold on, Caitlin.
00:10:47.740 Caitlin, there is a transgender.
00:10:49.340 There's a reference to, do you see my bulge, which is what I'm told is an online meme for
00:10:56.220 transgenderism.
00:10:57.180 And Director Patel testified that the murderer here was living with his romantic partner who
00:11:03.440 was a transgender man transitioning to being a woman.
00:11:06.160 And so you have both the shell casing that directly references transgenderism.
00:11:11.020 And in fact, Charlie Kirk was murdered moments after he was asked a question about transgender
00:11:16.840 mass shootings.
00:11:18.360 And that's when the shooter filed.
00:11:20.300 And so do we have conclusive proof at this case?
00:11:23.580 Well, hold on, Senator.
00:11:24.340 No, but I will say this.
00:11:25.300 Because yes.
00:11:25.360 Some of the most disturbing polling numbers that I see are the number of Democrats who
00:11:29.420 believe that this left-wing activist was somehow a Republican.
00:11:33.740 I mean, that really shows the media not doing the job they should be doing.
00:11:37.800 Okay, Senator, but one moment, because you said a lot there.
00:11:42.300 And we don't have a motive yet.
00:11:43.680 We don't know yet.
00:11:44.280 We're waiting.
00:11:44.760 Obviously, we've heard what the governor's had to say, what the FBI director said today.
00:11:47.720 Come on, we don't have a motive yet.
00:11:49.040 We know.
00:11:49.420 We don't have a motive yet.
00:11:50.580 We know what's happening with...
00:11:51.840 Really, that's CNN's position.
00:11:53.260 I mean, from law enforcement, Senator.
00:11:53.980 He just happened to fire the gun in celebration.
00:11:57.240 You can't tell the motive here.
00:11:58.600 Senator, that's not what I said.
00:12:01.180 And I said law enforcement hasn't laid out a direct motive.
00:12:04.040 They've laid out a lot of evidence here of these messages and what the shooter said to
00:12:08.020 family members and to roommates.
00:12:08.040 They've said that he's a left-wing activist who hated Charlie Kirk.
00:12:12.080 Senator, with all due respect, you know exactly what I'm saying.
00:12:15.160 I'm not arguing with you politically.
00:12:16.620 I'm saying that law enforcement has not put a specific motive.
00:12:19.380 You know that there's a difference in what they're putting in a legal argument than what
00:12:22.980 you're talking about.
00:12:23.700 And we're not even arguing about the facts here.
00:12:27.240 What you just said is false.
00:12:28.920 Senator...
00:12:29.280 Caitlin?
00:12:29.840 No.
00:12:30.160 Caitlin, facts...
00:12:31.580 Hold on a second.
00:12:32.280 Let me answer your statement because what you said is factually false.
00:12:34.580 Senator, with all due respect...
00:12:35.880 Law enforcement...
00:12:36.520 With all due respect, you're putting a lot of statements that I did not say.
00:12:41.180 And I want to get back to...
00:12:42.620 We just laid out the facts in the opening of the show of what we want from prosecutors today.
00:12:46.760 That is objectively false.
00:12:47.360 And we just spoke to the Deputy Attorney General.
00:12:48.980 That is objectively false.
00:12:50.280 They have not said a concrete motive of exactly what it was.
00:12:53.700 And CNN should not be engaged in misinformation.
00:12:57.160 Caitlin, answer my question.
00:12:58.320 It's not misinformation, Senator.
00:12:59.560 Have you seen the polling that shows the vast majority of Democrats believe this murderer
00:13:02.720 is a Republican and a Trump supporter?
00:13:04.900 Have you seen that polling?
00:13:05.860 Well, let me get back to my questions, though, Senator, because the question here...
00:13:08.880 You're not going to answer that question?
00:13:09.280 ...was actually...
00:13:10.380 Are you going to answer that question?
00:13:11.280 ...what you were saying about investigations that you'd like to see.
00:13:14.200 So you're not going to answer the question?
00:13:15.100 Senator, I'm the one asking the questions here.
00:13:16.820 And the question...
00:13:18.220 No, we're having a conversation.
00:13:19.860 I understand that you want to say things that are factually false, and then you don't
00:13:24.500 actually want the facts...
00:13:24.860 Do you believe that right-wing groups also need to be investigated?
00:13:26.800 ...not the facts laid out.
00:13:28.140 Okay, give your speech.
00:13:29.340 That's not true, Senator.
00:13:30.000 I'm asking you a question.
00:13:31.060 Go ahead.
00:13:32.460 I don't know what your question is because we have a delay because you're in England,
00:13:36.260 so I can't hear what you're saying.
00:13:38.020 You said that you believe that left-wing groups should be investigated.
00:13:41.320 You want to know where the financing is coming from for protests.
00:13:43.820 Do you believe that they should also be looking into right-wing groups as well,
00:13:46.960 or do you believe it should only be limited to that?
00:13:49.740 Look, I believe anyone engaged in acts of violence should be prosecuted and go to jail.
00:13:53.980 But I will say there has been an enormous amount, and CNN has been guilty of this, of both sidesism,
00:13:59.800 of saying, gosh, both sides are violent.
00:14:02.060 And understand, yes, there is some violence on both sides, but it is the left that overwhelmingly
00:14:06.880 celebrates this.
00:14:08.100 It is leftists that have been celebrating.
00:14:10.140 You look at Blue Sky, and it is a cesspool of leftists celebrating the murder of Charlie
00:14:16.160 Kirk.
00:14:16.520 You look at recent polling that shows over 50% of Democrats saying violence against Elon Musk
00:14:23.760 is justified.
00:14:24.620 Violence against Donald Trump is justified.
00:14:27.260 You look at Democrats who do things like what Kamala Harris did, of giving money and urging
00:14:32.840 people to give money to bail out violent rioters and Antifa riots.
00:14:37.240 It is only one side that justifies this violence.
00:14:41.220 My view is, if you commit acts of violence, you should be prosecuted.
00:14:45.540 And so, yes, we should follow the money.
00:14:48.500 Anyone funding acts of violence, we should go after.
00:14:51.480 But this is a left-wing problem.
00:14:54.140 How can you argue that it's...
00:14:55.660 I think the argument that people have been talking about recently is what's going on with
00:14:59.840 the Charlie Kirk case.
00:15:00.980 I think people have raised that because there have been other acts of political violence
00:15:04.560 as well when it comes to targeting Democrats.
00:15:07.360 I mean, we've seen that with a lawmaker who was killed in Minnesota this summer alongside
00:15:10.960 her husband.
00:15:11.980 We've seen it with the break-in and the political itself.
00:15:14.180 But the assassin there was a deranged...
00:15:14.500 We've also seen it with Justice Brett Kavanaugh and others.
00:15:17.320 Hold on a second.
00:15:18.380 If you're going to say facts, you need to get your facts right.
00:15:21.680 The assassin there was not a right-wing assassin acting on a political motive.
00:15:26.380 The assassin there was someone who had been an appointee of Tim Waltz, and he was a deranged
00:15:31.500 lunatic.
00:15:32.000 And yes, there are deranged lunatics who attack people both right and left.
00:15:36.740 But if you look at murders carried out for political agendas, they are overwhelmingly
00:15:41.880 on the left, whether it is the assassination of Charlie Kirk, the two assassination attempts
00:15:46.940 of Donald Trump, the assassination attempt on Brett Kavanaugh, over and over and over
00:15:52.380 again, whether it was the congressional shooter who came to Washington to the baseball game
00:15:56.560 and said, I want to find congressional base Republicans to attack.
00:16:01.160 We've noted all of those instances, but we're also noting that there have been others, including
00:16:06.760 the Democratic lawmakers, who were targeted just a couple of months ago.
00:16:10.460 So I think that is the point that people have made here.
00:16:12.760 But it wasn't by a Republican for a political agenda, and by the way, that lunatic should
00:16:16.820 be prosecuted and go to jail.
00:16:18.620 So what I'm not doing is what leftists are doing.
00:16:21.960 Leftists are celebrating that murder.
00:16:23.720 I think the murder in Minnesota was horrible.
00:16:26.240 It was horrible, and that violent criminal should be prosecuted and going to jail.
00:16:30.700 You would have a point if I said, gosh, let's set up a bail fund for that murderer.
00:16:34.700 Then you'd have a point.
00:16:36.040 But it's only one side that is doing that.
00:16:39.180 Do you agree that on Blue Sky, there are thousands of leftists celebrating and reveling in the
00:16:44.820 murder of Charlie Kirk?
00:16:47.460 Senator, I don't think that anyone should celebrate someone's murder, regardless of what
00:16:52.120 that person believed in their honor.
00:16:53.680 And I don't think Blue Sky is representative of how people feel.
00:16:57.740 If you celebrate it, I think that's wrong, and I think that's evil.
00:17:00.080 Representative of leftists, it's only left-wingers are on it.
00:17:03.960 I got to tell you, that was just one of those moments where she's like, and we're done.
00:17:10.160 Like, it's over.
00:17:11.420 We're done.
00:17:12.020 We're just going to move on past this.
00:17:14.300 And I'm glad you, by the way, didn't let up on the facts there at the end, because you're
00:17:17.660 absolutely right about this.
00:17:19.000 Look, I got to say, and there was a time, I mean, Caitlin started out as a reporter for
00:17:24.940 National Review.
00:17:26.680 She didn't used to, she's from Alabama.
00:17:28.880 She didn't used to be insane.
00:17:31.440 Isn't she now like a roll tide?
00:17:33.220 I think she's rolled tide, if I remember correctly.
00:17:35.280 I, I, she is.
00:17:37.060 And she got hired by CNN.
00:17:38.740 And, and I don't know if she drank the Kool-Aid.
00:17:42.500 I don't know if she just sold out, but, but her unwillingness.
00:17:47.260 Okay.
00:17:47.640 So number one, when I asked her, have you seen the polling that the vast majority of Democrats
00:17:53.940 believe that Charlie Kirk's assassin was a right-wing MAGA Republican?
00:17:59.540 She would not answer that question.
00:18:01.260 The answer is yes.
00:18:02.120 She has seen that.
00:18:03.560 She knows that, but she wouldn't answer it because the reason that the vast majority of
00:18:09.580 Democrats believe that is because CNN is lying to them.
00:18:12.420 MSNBC is lying to them.
00:18:14.160 The corporate media is lying to them.
00:18:15.820 And it goes right to the heart of their propaganda.
00:18:18.900 They are deceiving people.
00:18:20.040 She wouldn't answer that.
00:18:21.240 When I asked her, are you aware that on Blue Sky, now Blue Sky is this sort of left-wing
00:18:26.560 Twitter that they set up to say, let's just have lefties communicate.
00:18:30.000 Blue Sky is this cesspool of leftists celebrating this murder.
00:18:35.080 I asked her, do you know that?
00:18:36.540 She knows that that is not a surprise to her.
00:18:40.340 But if she admitted that she would have to admit that this is not the fault of both sides
00:18:46.600 of Republicans and Democrats.
00:18:48.080 It is leftists who are rationalizing this, who are justifying this, who are celebrating
00:18:53.920 this, and by the way, it was fascinating.
00:18:56.280 At the end, she just cut it off.
00:18:57.660 Done.
00:18:58.100 Ted Cruz, be quiet.
00:18:59.620 Yeah.
00:19:00.180 A point that I was going to make, there's also a real difference between how the left
00:19:05.500 and right reacts when something like this happens.
00:19:09.060 When George Floyd was killed, leftists rioted all over this country.
00:19:14.960 They firebombed police cars.
00:19:16.820 At least 19 people were killed in Antifa and Black Lives Matter riots all over the country.
00:19:24.600 In contrast, when Charlie Kirk was killed, a great American, what did conservatives do?
00:19:30.820 We held prayer vigils.
00:19:32.280 We stood up and we held candles and we prayed and we honored his life.
00:19:36.560 And by the way, left-wing radicals came and tried to disrupt those prayer vigils by screaming
00:19:41.940 and yelling, engaging in acts of violence.
00:19:43.960 There is a difference and CNN is all in in propaganda and denying that difference.
00:19:52.380 All right.
00:19:52.620 I want to take a moment to talk about personal safety.
00:19:55.140 You guys know I'm pro-Second Amendment.
00:19:56.880 You know that I've actually used my firearm to save my life when I was a target of a gang
00:20:01.520 initiation.
00:20:02.460 But for many people that are listening or family members, you may not feel comfortable carrying
00:20:07.380 a firearm.
00:20:08.380 You still need to be able to protect yourselves.
00:20:10.640 And in times of danger, you're going to want to have something.
00:20:13.540 And that's where the Burna launcher comes in.
00:20:16.360 I have given these to countless family members.
00:20:18.660 It is a handheld pistol that fires both kinetic rounds and chemical irritants to separate you
00:20:24.960 from an attacker.
00:20:26.100 And I'm here today with Josh Sherrard from Burna.
00:20:28.560 Josh, many of us just saw that video footage of the recent mob attack of a man and a woman
00:20:33.660 in downtown Cincinnati.
00:20:35.420 Josh, many of us saw the video footage of the recent mob attack of a man and a woman in
00:20:40.340 downtown Cincinnati.
00:20:41.460 And it was shocking.
00:20:42.620 Can you share a little more about what happened?
00:20:45.060 And could a less lethal weapon like the Burna launcher be used in a situation like this to
00:20:49.740 defend yourself?
00:20:50.800 Absolutely.
00:20:51.320 Like you said, we all saw the videos.
00:20:53.080 And unfortunately, after a jazz festival, a man was attacked by a mob of individuals that
00:20:58.220 just continued going and continued going.
00:21:00.760 And unfortunately, he was unable to defend himself despite other people trying to help.
00:21:05.380 This is one of those instances where clearly these people are looking for an easy target.
00:21:09.520 The trick here is to make yourself a hard target.
00:21:12.420 Have a way to defend yourself to facilitate that escape.
00:21:15.800 And that's really where Burna comes in.
00:21:17.720 You know, depending on the legality, you may or may not be able to carry a gun in this
00:21:20.720 case.
00:21:21.120 So you need to have a tool to make sure you can defend yourself.
00:21:24.200 It's legal in all 50 states and make sure you can make it home safe.
00:21:27.700 And why wouldn't the victim in this case just want to pull a gun on these suspects?
00:21:31.380 It's an important question.
00:21:32.980 You know, it absolutely is.
00:21:34.500 And there's a couple reasons.
00:21:35.600 One is the legality.
00:21:37.000 Depending on where you are, you may not even be able to carry a gun or maybe coming from
00:21:40.720 a private event where a gun may not be illegal as well.
00:21:44.780 And then two, in order to pull a gun, you need to understand that there has to be a reasonable
00:21:49.720 expectation that there's going to be death or serious bodily injury caused.
00:21:52.540 Do you pull that gun too early?
00:21:53.680 And you're likely the one to be going to jail.
00:21:56.320 So in this case, a less lethal tool is perfect.
00:21:59.300 You can be it can be pulled early.
00:22:00.780 It can be used early to prevent further harm because it's such a reduced amount of force.
00:22:06.800 Look, if you want to carry one, I do.
00:22:08.920 I love having this as an option.
00:22:10.780 You can get more information for you or your family members on how they can protect themselves
00:22:15.300 with a Berna launcher.
00:22:16.420 Go to Berna, B-Y-R-N-A dot com.
00:22:19.860 That's Berna, B-Y-R-N-A dot com.
00:22:22.760 Again, Berna, B-Y-R-N-A dot com.
00:22:26.920 And by the way, Senator, let's also go to the other lie.
00:22:30.240 And you mentioned all of the things that conservatives do differently than liberals.
00:22:34.700 There was a list, by the way, that went viral.
00:22:36.340 I do want to bring it up real quick.
00:22:37.780 There was a great list put out.
00:22:38.860 It said when when Democrats are angry, you get BLM riots, Antifa, church shootings, Trump
00:22:44.020 assassination, Charlie Kirk assassination, pro-life pregnancy centers are put on fire.
00:22:48.740 Tesla vandalism attacks against ICE agents, attacks against police, attacks against federal
00:22:53.480 courthouses.
00:22:54.580 And this is just merely a partial list.
00:22:56.960 And what happens when we are attacked?
00:22:59.660 We have prayer vigils and we clean up profanity that is put on bridges.
00:23:04.580 By the way, you went viral for that.
00:23:06.720 Well done.
00:23:07.060 We didn't even mention that earlier.
00:23:08.840 I for people that don't know what happened Sunday.
00:23:12.620 We did our show.
00:23:13.860 And then you saw online, I'm assuming we haven't even talked about this online.
00:23:19.620 I think you must have seen the picture that someone had put up on where the overpass is
00:23:22.940 not far from where you live and I live, F Charlie Kirk.
00:23:27.060 And you just said, all right, I'm going to go paint over it.
00:23:29.520 And you did it and then put it on the Internet.
00:23:32.140 Yeah, it pissed me off.
00:23:33.640 This was on Highway 59 in Houston, right in the middle of Houston.
00:23:37.260 And where this happened was about a mile from my house.
00:23:40.700 It was very close from where I live.
00:23:42.000 It was at 59 in Shepard.
00:23:43.520 For anyone from Houston, it was right at the Shepard exit.
00:23:47.100 And I saw on Twitter the image of someone had spray painted F Charlie Kirk.
00:23:52.180 They did not abbreviate F.
00:23:54.200 And it just pissed me off.
00:23:56.040 I mean, Charlie was a friend of mine.
00:23:57.600 He was an extraordinary person.
00:23:59.100 And that kind of hate was wrong.
00:24:02.080 And so I decided just that afternoon, I went down and I could tell where it was from the
00:24:08.920 highway sign.
00:24:09.620 And I went down with some paint and a roller and I just covered it up and I painted over
00:24:14.860 it and I erased it.
00:24:16.840 And then I put out the pictures and I said, look, some despicable bastard put this up and
00:24:24.840 I've covered it up.
00:24:27.200 TxDOT, the Texas Department of Transportation has been notified.
00:24:29.920 They will almost surely remove this expeditiously, but I've removed it now so that not another
00:24:36.620 Texan 59 is a very busy freeway.
00:24:38.920 So there are thousands or in time millions of people that are driving up and down 59.
00:24:44.000 I didn't want them to look at that message.
00:24:45.740 And so I just covered it up in white paint.
00:24:48.060 And when TxDOT removes it, great.
00:24:51.280 And, you know, I will say that went viral.
00:24:54.260 I got a lot of folks who texted me and said, thank you for doing that.
00:24:58.160 And I got to say, my response to all of them was just that it needed to be done.
00:25:02.460 That this was grotesque and we needed to just cover it up and say that this is not okay.
00:25:09.580 Canadian women are looking for more.
00:25:12.580 More out of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world around them.
00:25:16.740 And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.
00:25:20.380 I'm Jennifer Stewart.
00:25:21.620 And I'm Catherine Clark.
00:25:22.860 And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women.
00:25:26.640 Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers.
00:25:30.160 All at different stages of their journey.
00:25:32.360 So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.
00:25:35.340 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00:25:41.180 I want to move to the text messages that have come out.
00:25:45.120 And it's very interesting to see all of the evidence that is now we are seeing.
00:25:49.880 The transparency of these text messages that were between the shooter and his transgender boyfriend.
00:25:58.380 And I also want to say there are some people that are saying, oh, you're taking this hook, line, and sinker.
00:26:04.000 I don't know if they planned the text messages.
00:26:06.840 I don't know if this was him trying to protect the roommate and act like the roommate knew nothing about it.
00:26:10.860 I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of that.
00:26:12.820 But what was shocking about this is how the media decided to play it and romanticize their relationship through the text messages
00:26:23.120 in the weirdest, creepiest way I've ever seen the mainstream media do this.
00:26:26.820 Yeah, look, I'm sorry to do this, but I'm going to read you these text messages because they're horrifying.
00:26:32.220 But it makes clear there is no doubt that this murderer is guilty.
00:26:37.460 And by the way, there is a reason I won't say the murderer's name.
00:26:41.440 Because anyone who engages in a mass murder and horrific crime like this, part of the reason they do this is they want to be famous.
00:26:48.000 I don't repeat these bastards' names.
00:26:49.680 I will call him the murderer or the assassin or the defendant, but I will not say his name.
00:26:55.040 But the murderer and his boyfriend were exchanging texts, and the murderer left under a keyboard in their apartment a note
00:27:05.140 saying that he had the opportunity to kill Charlie Kirk, and he took it.
00:27:09.680 And his boyfriend, who is a man who is transgender and transitioning to be a woman, responded,
00:27:19.500 what?
00:27:20.040 With like a whole bunch of question marks.
00:27:21.900 And you're joking, right?
00:27:24.200 And here's the exchange.
00:27:26.140 The murderer says,
00:27:27.320 I'm still okay, my love, but I'm stuck in Orem for a little while longer.
00:27:32.040 Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but I got to grab my rifle still.
00:27:35.880 To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age.
00:27:40.080 I'm sorry to involve you.
00:27:42.520 Boyfriend, you weren't the one who did it, right?
00:27:46.760 Four question marks.
00:27:48.900 Murderer, I am.
00:27:51.060 I'm sorry.
00:27:52.900 Boyfriend, I thought they caught the person.
00:27:56.600 Murderer, no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in similar clothing.
00:28:03.020 I had planned to grab my rifle from the drop point shortly after.
00:28:07.900 But most of that side of town got locked down.
00:28:10.720 It's quiet, almost enough to get out.
00:28:13.040 But there's one vehicle lingering.
00:28:15.740 Boyfriend, why?
00:28:17.880 Murderer, why did I do it?
00:28:21.580 Boyfriend, yeah.
00:28:23.300 Murderer, I've had enough of his hatred.
00:28:26.940 Some hate can't be negotiated out.
00:28:29.240 If I'm able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence.
00:28:34.360 Going to attempt to retrieve it again.
00:28:36.540 Hopefully, they have moved on.
00:28:38.660 I haven't seen anything about them finding it.
00:28:41.960 Boyfriend, how long have you been planning this?
00:28:45.300 Murderer, a bit over a week, I believe.
00:28:48.420 I can get close to it, but there is a squad car parked by it.
00:28:52.320 I think they already swept the spot, but I don't want to chance it.
00:28:55.840 Murderer, I wish I had circled back and grabbed it as soon as I got to my vehicle.
00:29:02.720 I'm worried what my old man would do if I didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle.
00:29:07.700 I don't know if it had a serial number, but it wouldn't trace to me.
00:29:12.140 I worry about prints I had to leave it in a bush where I changed outfits.
00:29:17.480 Didn't have the ability or time to bring it with.
00:29:20.340 I might have to abandon it and hope they don't find prints.
00:29:23.540 How the F will I explain losing it to my old man?
00:29:28.380 Only thing I left was the rifle wrapped in a towel.
00:29:32.680 Remember how I was engraving bullets?
00:29:35.580 The effing messages are mostly a big meme.
00:29:39.660 If I see notices bulges UWU on Fox News, I might have a stroke.
00:29:46.600 All right, I'm going to have to leave it.
00:29:48.960 That really effing sucks.
00:29:50.600 Those are the text exchanges.
00:29:53.680 Now, number one, reading those text exchanges, it is 100% clear.
00:29:58.440 It's not 99%.
00:29:59.440 It's not 98%.
00:30:00.360 It's 100% clear.
00:30:02.760 This defendant is the murderer.
00:30:05.780 He is the assassin.
00:30:07.180 He is confessing to his boyfriend, I did it.
00:30:10.960 He is confessing details of the crime that only the murderer would know.
00:30:15.860 He will be convicted.
00:30:17.760 He was charged today.
00:30:18.920 He will be convicted.
00:30:20.120 But he is guilty today.
00:30:21.980 Based on that evidence, it is 100% certain he is guilty.
00:30:25.620 And his motive is clear.
00:30:28.020 You know, Caitlin Collins and CNN and MSNBC, they say, we don't know the motive.
00:30:33.620 Maybe he just disliked tall people.
00:30:36.800 Maybe he was just, you know, firing his gun in celebration and it accidentally hit the throat of someone.
00:30:43.300 It accidentally, somebody that was there excited just to see Charlie Kirk and it went off randomly.
00:30:47.320 Like the level of, and by the way, an idiot commentator at MSNBC said, maybe it was a supporter of Charlie Kirk firing his gun in celebration.
00:30:55.540 Now, thankfully, that commentator got fired for that idiocy.
00:30:58.380 But the motive is absolutely clear.
00:31:03.600 He hated Charlie Kirk.
00:31:05.100 He's a left-wing Antifa activist.
00:31:07.420 He's a transgender activist.
00:31:08.980 He is sleeping with a transgender man who is transitioning to be a woman.
00:31:15.240 And so the motive, there's no ambiguity, but CNN hates that motive.
00:31:19.760 They cannot admit that's what happened.
00:31:22.000 Oh, my goodness.
00:31:22.600 That would undermine their entire political agenda.
00:31:25.260 So they desperately have to say the motive is unclear.
00:31:28.460 By the way, Caitlin Collins said repeatedly, well, law enforcement hasn't laid out the motive.
00:31:32.640 Yes, they have.
00:31:33.260 They repeatedly laid out the motive.
00:31:34.800 They said it's a left-wing activist who's radicalized.
00:31:37.760 The bullets had carved on them Antifa and transgender messages.
00:31:41.120 I mean, this is not subtle.
00:31:42.920 He was not hiding his motive.
00:31:44.340 But I have to say, as repulsive as CNN's reaction was, ABC's was worse.
00:31:52.820 I want you to listen.
00:31:53.540 Way worse.
00:31:54.500 Way worse.
00:31:55.600 Like, you can't overstate it.
00:31:57.640 Okay.
00:31:58.220 I want you to listen to ABC News's reaction to this text exchange between the murderer and his transgender boyfriend.
00:32:06.540 Here, give a listen.
00:32:07.160 We have seen an alleged murder with such specific text messages about the alleged murder weapon, where it was hidden, how it was placed, what was on it.
00:32:19.140 But also, it was very touching in a way that I think many of us didn't expect.
00:32:22.660 A very intimate portrait into this relationship between the suspect's roommate and the suspect himself, with him repeatedly calling his roommate who was transitioning, calling him, my love, and I want to protect you, my love.
00:32:37.080 So it was this duality of someone who the attorney said not only jeopardized the life of Charlie Kirk and the crowd, but was doing it in front of children, which is one of the aggravating circumstances of this case.
00:32:47.660 And on the other hand, he was, you know, speaking so lovingly about his partner.
00:32:51.660 So a very interesting and, as Pierre said, riveting press conference, David.
00:32:55.440 I love how they say it's a riveting press conference center.
00:32:58.520 It's riveting.
00:33:00.040 And just, you know, he referred to him as my love, and this is just so sweet and sincere.
00:33:04.100 It's like, what in the world are you guys doing over there at ABC News with your special report live coverage?
00:33:11.140 Touching and loving.
00:33:12.740 Oh, these text messages.
00:33:14.920 I murdered this person for you.
00:33:16.920 Oh, my love.
00:33:17.980 Oh, my love.
00:33:18.680 Pitter, patter, pitter, patter.
00:33:20.040 That is repulsive.
00:33:22.360 It is repulsive that ABC News is gushing over this psychopathic murderer.
00:33:29.560 And ABC News, oh, they're touching and sweet text messages.
00:33:33.780 He is confessing to a deliberate murder because he hates what somebody is saying.
00:33:39.720 He murdered a husband.
00:33:40.880 He murdered a father of two little kids, one boy, one girl.
00:33:43.620 And ABC News thinks it's so sweet that he confessed to his transgender boyfriend, which, of course, they call his roommate, even though he's calling him my love.
00:33:54.980 Like, there is no ambiguity when you call someone my love what exactly the relationship is.
00:34:01.140 But ABC News cannot admit, to them it is sweet and beautiful, this radical leftist murdering Charlie Kirk.
00:34:12.320 I got I got I got a message for you guys.
00:34:14.340 It's not sweet and it's not beautiful.
00:34:16.960 Yeah.
00:34:17.120 By the way, side note on this.
00:34:18.320 I don't know if you knew this, but 10 minutes after that, like the Internet exploded over it.
00:34:24.460 He went back on and doubled down on it and basically did the same thing again.
00:34:29.940 Like, I'm not backing down from this.
00:34:31.840 I think it's genuine and sweet and sincere and a love story.
00:34:35.120 You know, what a romantic Romeo and Juliet story, you know, psycho leftist murderer killing people because he's filled with hate.
00:34:43.120 I can't think of anything more beautiful than that.
00:34:45.600 Certain certainly ABC News is very persuasive in that regard.
00:34:48.180 Yeah, it's it'll be the face of the network before you know it.
00:34:52.000 God help us.
00:34:53.220 Did he really double down?
00:34:54.640 Did he really go back on air and do it again?
00:34:56.660 Yeah.
00:34:56.980 Yes.
00:34:57.440 Do you want to hear it?
00:34:58.180 Because I've got it.
00:34:58.860 If you want to hear it.
00:34:59.460 Absolutely.
00:34:59.920 Yes.
00:35:00.180 This is this is Matt Guttman.
00:35:01.860 I haven't heard this.
00:35:03.040 So play it for us.
00:35:04.280 So this is 10 minutes after he said on ABC News Live.
00:35:07.720 It's heartbreaking on so many levels.
00:35:09.960 Obviously, Charlie Kirk was murdered brutally in front of a crowd of thousands.
00:35:13.340 On the other hand, there is this duality of every portrait of a of a again, his exact words of a very like this is like a love story.
00:35:21.900 Loving, touching.
00:35:22.920 Yeah, touching.
00:35:23.420 So this is this is 10 minutes later after the Internet.
00:35:27.220 And I'm I have no doubt that he knew that there was a problem.
00:35:30.180 Right.
00:35:30.520 So he knew there was an issue.
00:35:32.040 A hundred percent.
00:35:33.000 A hundred percent.
00:35:33.660 Here he is.
00:35:34.320 Ten minutes later.
00:35:35.520 It is.
00:35:35.820 It's heartbreaking on so many levels, Kira.
00:35:37.720 Obviously, Charlie Kirk was murdered brutally in front of a crowd of thousands of people who watched him being shot through the neck and then essentially bleed out in front of him.
00:35:46.820 And I think one of the things that the attorney here made a very fine point about is that a lot of these charges, seven charges, were aggravated because children were present.
00:35:57.040 Children witnessed this.
00:35:58.620 Children were put in harm's way.
00:36:00.480 And that was something that obviously is aggravating here.
00:36:03.100 And that's one of the reasons that the suspect, in addition to the alleged murder being political in nature, is facing the death penalty.
00:36:10.400 They're going for the death penalty.
00:36:11.580 And on the other hand, there is this duality of a very portrait of a very human person, a very human experience from this entire family.
00:36:20.040 As you mentioned it, the mother essentially discovered that it was her son who had done this.
00:36:25.240 The kid who had got a 34 out of 36 on the ACTs, who had a 4.0, who got a full ride to college here, that that kid was the one who allegedly perpetrated.
00:36:35.200 She saw those pictures and said, identified him, essentially.
00:36:38.860 And then those text messages.
00:36:40.300 And I don't think I've ever experienced a press conference in which we've read text messages that are A, so fulsome, so robust, so apparently, allegedly self-incriminating, and yet, on the other hand, so touching.
00:36:50.500 With the suspect reaching out to his roommate, who is allegedly his boyfriend, who we understand identified as male at birth, now identifies as female, and the terminology he used.
00:37:04.840 He was trying to protect him.
00:37:05.860 He kept calling him, my love, my reason for doing this is to protect you, but also asking him to delete the messages and not speak to law enforcement.
00:37:15.020 So there's this heartbreaking duality that we're seeing very tragically playing out.
00:37:19.440 If that's not doubling down, I don't know what is.
00:37:23.460 Fulsome, touching, loving.
00:37:25.820 Loving.
00:37:26.360 It is.
00:37:27.900 Heartbreaking.
00:37:30.600 Look, I don't know who this particular reporter is, but I will say it says something that this speaks to him in such a touching, moving way.
00:37:40.620 I see depraved maniacs who just committed cold-blooded murder, and his boyfriend, his boyfriend is like not saying, dear God, what the hell did you do?
00:37:51.640 Yeah.
00:37:51.900 He's just like, oh, oh, it was you.
00:37:54.540 Oh, okay.
00:37:55.400 You know, he didn't, the boyfriend never said there's anything wrong with murdering Charlie Kirk.
00:38:00.540 He was perfectly fine with it.
00:38:02.000 There ain't nothing touching about these two psychopaths reveling in their cold-blooded murder.
00:38:08.300 And for ABC to think it is, that really tells you how messed up ABC is.
00:38:12.860 By the way, I'll be very interested to see if ABC tries to walk this back, if it comes out, those text messages where I cover your ass moment to try to save the boyfriend roommate.
00:38:22.020 I will be very interested to see how they manage that.
00:38:25.140 Don't forget, we do this show Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and we do this show to talk about these types of things and what the media is doing and exposing it.
00:38:33.240 So hit that subscribe or auto-download button, and please write us a five-star review wherever you're listening to this podcast.
00:38:38.740 Also, if you want to watch the podcast, this one, for example, is up on YouTube, so you can follow us on YouTube, Vertical Ted Cruz, there.
00:38:46.740 And this is an I Heart Podcast.
00:38:51.440 Guaranteed Human.