Verdict with Ted Cruz - June 16, 2025


Day 5 at War： Israel Wins Major Victories over Iran, but Serious Risks Remain


Episode Stats

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

47


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.540 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.160 Good Monday morning.
00:00:06.500 It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.
00:00:09.460 And Senator, we've got a lot to chat about,
00:00:11.320 especially when it deals with what's happening with Israel and Iran.
00:00:15.180 It is day five of Israel's war with Iran,
00:00:18.640 and the entire world is watching with bated breath.
00:00:22.460 Israel is scoring major victories,
00:00:24.920 taking out senior Iranian military leadership,
00:00:28.100 doing massive damage to Iran's nuclear facilities.
00:00:32.300 We're going to break down exactly what has happened.
00:00:35.060 We're going to talk also about the missiles that are flying back into Israel,
00:00:39.180 about the Israeli civilians who are being wounded,
00:00:42.880 who are being killed as a price for this war.
00:00:45.860 We're going to talk about the risks that American servicemen and women
00:00:48.780 are facing in the Middle East,
00:00:50.780 and the risk all of us are facing here at home
00:00:52.980 of the potential for Iranian terrorism.
00:00:55.480 And the question everyone is asking, what's next?
00:00:58.920 Where does this go?
00:01:00.500 More than once, I've had teenagers at home ask,
00:01:04.200 is this World War III?
00:01:06.480 The short answer is no, but we're going to break down why.
00:01:09.280 All of that on today's verdict.
00:01:11.040 Yeah, it's a really important show.
00:01:13.220 I want to also make sure you guys remember,
00:01:15.480 hit that subscribe auto download button
00:01:17.960 and share this podcast on your social media,
00:01:20.760 wherever you're listening right now.
00:01:22.180 We've also had so many of you that have asked the question,
00:01:25.080 how can I help people in Israel?
00:01:26.980 And we've been telling you about the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews,
00:01:30.340 and the work they are doing is incredible.
00:01:32.540 They are deploying bomb shelters, as we speak,
00:01:36.140 to help keep people safe in Israel.
00:01:38.620 When things get bad,
00:01:40.200 that is when they step up and protect families and loved ones.
00:01:44.480 And if you want to get involved
00:01:46.400 and stand with the people in Israel right now,
00:01:48.700 you can do it by giving food and shelter to Jewish families that are under threat.
00:01:53.780 As I said, they're building bomb shelters for children.
00:01:56.800 They're helping survivors of the attacks that we're witnessing right now.
00:02:01.000 And they are doing it daily.
00:02:03.800 Your gift of only $45 will help support life-saving work
00:02:07.920 by providing food, shelter, and so much more.
00:02:11.240 I was speaking with the CEO of IFCJ,
00:02:13.740 and she was talking about just how hard it is for so many families in Israel right now
00:02:18.760 and what they're doing on the ground
00:02:20.620 and the bomb shelters that are needed.
00:02:22.940 And she said very simply,
00:02:24.420 if you can help stand with the people in Israel that are under attack,
00:02:28.180 they are doing everything they can to support them
00:02:30.940 and to give the bomb shelters that are needed.
00:02:33.700 So step up and help right now if you can at all.
00:02:37.380 888-488-IFCJ.
00:02:39.760 That's 888-488-4325.
00:02:44.640 You can also give online at ifcj.org.
00:02:48.620 Every dollar helps.
00:02:50.060 Don't wait.
00:02:50.980 Be the difference.
00:02:52.100 Ifcj.org or 888-488-IFCJ.
00:02:57.380 So Senator, this started, as you mentioned, five days ago.
00:03:00.660 And let's go back to what caused this to happen
00:03:04.640 and remind people how we got here.
00:03:06.800 Well, in many ways, I think this was inevitable.
00:03:10.280 It is inevitable because the Ayatollah has set out a clear objective of acquiring a nuclear weapon.
00:03:16.500 President Trump had given the Ayatollah a 60-day deadline,
00:03:20.000 a 60-day deadline to cut a deal.
00:03:22.500 And the deal that the president was demanding was complete dismantlement.
00:03:25.800 I led a letter of 52 Republican senators saying we agree with President Trump
00:03:31.180 that the only acceptable outcome is complete and total dismantlement,
00:03:35.960 every Iranian centrifuge being dismantled.
00:03:39.180 Why?
00:03:39.640 Because the Iranians have proved they are liars.
00:03:42.800 And if they keep enriching uranium,
00:03:45.140 they will use that to try to develop a nuclear weapon.
00:03:47.860 And given that these are theocratic lunatics who chant death to America and death to Israel,
00:03:53.380 I believe they want a nuclear weapon because they want the ability to use a nuclear weapon.
00:03:59.400 And so on day 61, Iran announced,
00:04:03.400 we will not dismantle even a single centrifuge.
00:04:06.500 And we're going to build more.
00:04:08.060 We're going to keep enriching,
00:04:09.300 which was essentially a gigantic middle finger to President Trump.
00:04:13.240 But it was also telling Israel,
00:04:15.480 hey, hit us now because we're going to keep going until we get a nuke.
00:04:20.280 And Israel did not need to be asked twice.
00:04:23.660 This attack was launched on the 61st day,
00:04:26.740 the day after the expiration of President Trump's deadline.
00:04:30.580 And listen, what we've seen in the last five days has been a massive attack from Israel
00:04:35.880 that is highly targeted.
00:04:37.900 As of June 15, Israel had struck more than 720 military targets in Iran.
00:04:46.980 These airstrikes are largely intelligence driven.
00:04:51.000 They're precision strikes on infrastructure,
00:04:54.540 on military leaders, on mobile military targets.
00:04:58.380 And part of the reason Israel is able to do so
00:05:01.160 is that Israel has almost complete dominance of the airspace
00:05:05.300 because they've degraded Iran's air defenses.
00:05:07.900 And so in the last five days, who have they taken out?
00:05:12.060 Well, Israel has taken out Major General Hossein Salami,
00:05:16.260 who was the commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the IRGC.
00:05:20.940 They've taken out Major General Mohammed Bagheri,
00:05:24.000 who was the chief of staff of the armed forces.
00:05:26.820 They've taken out Major General Gholam Ali Rashid,
00:05:30.580 who was the head of the Qatam al-Anbiya central headquarters.
00:05:34.780 They've taken out Brigadier General Amir Ali Hadjadzadeh,
00:05:40.460 commander of the IRGC Air Force.
00:05:42.740 They've taken out Ali Shamkhani,
00:05:45.600 who's a close aide to the supreme leader
00:05:48.000 and the former Iranian Navy commander.
00:05:51.160 They've taken out Amir Ali Hadjadzadeh, commander of the IRGC airspace units,
00:05:58.820 oversaw ballistic missiles.
00:06:00.420 They've taken out Brigadier General Khosrav Hassani,
00:06:04.720 the IRGC intelligence airspace force chief deputy.
00:06:08.200 They've taken out Mohamed Mehdi Teranji,
00:06:12.560 who's a physicist and president of the Islamic Azad University in Tehran.
00:06:17.220 And they've taken out Faridun Abassi,
00:06:21.460 former head of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran.
00:06:25.220 This is massive.
00:06:26.760 This is decapitation of the senior military leaders in Iran.
00:06:31.260 They've also had targeted strikes on bases,
00:06:33.720 and we're going to go through that in a minute.
00:06:34.880 But the effect of it, the leaders that Iran would turn to to say
00:06:40.240 wage war against Israel, they're all taken out.
00:06:45.500 And it was almost instantaneous.
00:06:48.300 Now, the other thing that has the Iranians completely freaked out is the intel.
00:06:54.200 Israel knew where each of those leaders were.
00:06:56.720 They took them all out within hours of each other.
00:06:59.800 I mean, it was almost instantaneous.
00:07:01.720 Now, you've got to note the Iranians,
00:07:03.240 and their leaders were all sitting around in predictable places on the 61st day.
00:07:07.060 They did not think Israel was going to act.
00:07:09.960 That was a wrong prediction.
00:07:12.980 And you combine that with massive degradation of the air defenses
00:07:18.240 and multiple attacks on bases, nuclear facilities, and also missile launch sites.
00:07:23.880 And Israel's opening salvos of this attack have been incredibly effective.
00:07:29.120 You look at the effectiveness of this, and I do have to just say, honestly, wow.
00:07:36.080 The intelligence work that they've just been sitting on, as you mentioned, Israel,
00:07:41.040 is truly mind-blowing.
00:07:43.460 But there's also, I think, a debt of gratitude the world owes Israel
00:07:47.420 for stepping up and doing what needed to be done.
00:07:50.880 Would you agree?
00:07:51.580 Absolutely, yes.
00:07:54.400 And listen, Iran wants a nuclear weapon.
00:08:00.500 The Ayatollah refers to Israel as the little Satan.
00:08:05.080 He refers to America as the great Satan.
00:08:08.960 And I've got to say, as an American, I think Americans should be grateful
00:08:12.320 that Israel is taking out not just these leaders.
00:08:16.900 And mind you, the IRGC are the same people who've taken out two different hits
00:08:21.720 on President Trump, have hired assassins to try to murder President Trump.
00:08:26.060 They've hired assassins to try to murder Trump's former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo.
00:08:31.320 They've hired assassins to try to murder Trump's former National Security Advisor, John Bolton.
00:08:36.860 And these nuclear weapons, it is a massive favor to the United States
00:08:42.320 to take out the facility.
00:08:43.400 So, for example, the Natanz facility, which is the main uranium enrichment facility,
00:08:49.440 the United Nations nuclear chief, Rafael Grossi, told the Security Council
00:08:53.240 that the above-ground section of the Natanz facility was totally destroyed.
00:08:57.960 He said all the electrical infrastructure and emergency power generators were destroyed.
00:09:02.440 And he said the section of the facility where uranium was enriched up to 60%, that was destroyed.
00:09:08.440 Satellite imagery confirms that the pilot fuel enrichment plant was destroyed
00:09:13.420 and buildings across the facility were damaged.
00:09:16.820 There are also reports that electricity is down in Natanz's lower levels,
00:09:20.860 which is where centrifuges used to enrich uranium are stored.
00:09:26.800 That was massively effective.
00:09:28.420 And, you know, one thing I want to say, so on Twitter, look, most people,
00:09:32.580 certainly people who are focused on protecting America's national security,
00:09:35.680 are celebrating what's happening here.
00:09:37.900 But I will say there are some voices on Twitter who have decided that what America first means
00:09:44.140 is that we retreat from the world and we don't actually stand up to our enemies.
00:09:49.500 And I'm here to tell you that is not America first.
00:09:52.280 Listen, I am someone who is reluctant to put U.S. servicemen and women on harm's way.
00:09:58.180 And by the way, President Trump is also.
00:10:00.760 In his first term, he did not invade foreign countries.
00:10:03.580 Indeed, he ended two wars.
00:10:05.320 But at the same time, it is worth remembering,
00:10:08.460 Donald Trump has never been an isolationist.
00:10:11.100 In his first term, Donald Trump inherited from Barack Obama.
00:10:15.620 ISIS had a caliphate the size of the state of Indiana.
00:10:18.580 And Trump utterly decimated that caliphate.
00:10:21.520 He destroyed ISIS.
00:10:23.000 Trump took out General Soleimani, the former head of the IRGC.
00:10:27.240 And he also took out al-Baghdadi.
00:10:29.560 Trump's actions were never those of an isolationist.
00:10:32.200 And I will say some of the folks who are throwing rocks, attacking the president,
00:10:37.480 attacking the president and saying President Trump is not America first
00:10:41.260 because he's supporting Israel and standing up and stopping Iran from getting nuclear weapons.
00:10:46.240 I will say the president had an interview in the Atlantic where here's what he said.
00:10:51.700 Quote, well, considering that I'm the one that developed America first
00:10:56.140 and considering that the term wasn't used until I came along,
00:11:00.040 I think I'm the one that decides that.
00:11:02.140 For those people who say they want peace,
00:11:04.720 you can't have peace if Iran has a nuclear weapon.
00:11:07.780 So for all those wonderful people who don't want to do anything about Iran having a nuclear weapon,
00:11:13.120 that's not peace.
00:11:14.200 I got to say, I agree with President Trump.
00:11:16.700 He is exactly right.
00:11:19.020 And America first means peace through strength.
00:11:22.180 And stopping Iran from getting a nuclear weapon keeps us out of war.
00:11:26.400 How close do you think we really were?
00:11:28.820 And that's one of the questions I've been asked.
00:11:30.660 If I've been asked it once, it's a hundred times,
00:11:32.600 to dealing with the real possibility of a nuclear Iran
00:11:37.600 or an Iran that was willing to go after Israel the way that Israel has described it,
00:11:42.800 it was way closer than it should have ever been.
00:11:45.300 Well, that's right.
00:11:46.240 And I'll tell you what, you should listen to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
00:11:50.380 when he explains what their intelligence showed.
00:11:53.900 Here, give a listen.
00:11:54.920 You know, I just want to press you on the intel on the nuclear part.
00:11:58.580 Less than two months ago, the new director of national intelligence,
00:12:01.320 Tulsi Gabbard, testified on Capitol Hill saying that everything had been suspended since 2003
00:12:07.320 and had not restarted, that the nuclear program had not been restarted by the Iranians.
00:12:12.680 So did something change from end of March until this week?
00:12:16.820 Was the U.S. intel wrong?
00:12:18.920 The intel we got and we shared with the United States was absolutely clear.
00:12:24.520 It was absolutely clear that they were working in a secret plan to weaponize the uranium.
00:12:30.480 They were marching very quickly.
00:12:32.080 They would achieve a test device and possibly an initial device within months
00:12:37.420 and certainly less than a year.
00:12:39.040 That was the intel we shared with the United States.
00:12:41.580 I think we have excellent intel in Iran.
00:12:44.560 I think we've proven that.
00:12:46.000 And that is something that we couldn't possibly accept.
00:12:48.980 Whether it would be six months or 12 months or 13 months is immaterial.
00:12:53.140 Once they go that route, it's too late.
00:12:55.840 And we will not have a second holocaust, a nuclear holocaust.
00:12:59.900 We already had one in the previous century.
00:13:02.300 The Jewish state is not going to have the holocaust made it on the Jewish people.
00:13:06.080 It's not going to happen.
00:13:06.900 Never again is now.
00:13:08.500 And we have to act now.
00:13:10.440 Senator, the idea of a nuclear holocaust, the way that he just described it,
00:13:15.300 is one that I think everyone should just step back and really think about.
00:13:19.420 And then there's the second aspect of this, which is, if there's any foreign policy doctrine
00:13:26.520 that has been very clear in the world, it is Iran saying that they want to destroy Israel
00:13:32.580 from the river, the sea, death to Israel.
00:13:35.440 It is their foreign policy.
00:13:37.720 It is clear they're not lying about it.
00:13:40.640 Believe them when they say they want to annihilate Israel.
00:13:43.560 Well, and look, the Ayatollah, the Islamic revolution in Iran, succeeded in 1979.
00:13:51.960 And the Iranian regime, since that time, has been the number one state sponsor of terrorism
00:13:56.840 in the world.
00:13:58.840 The Ayatollah has paid for Hamas, provides, Iran provides over 90% of the funding for Hamas,
00:14:06.580 over 90% of the funding for Hezbollah.
00:14:08.220 They fund terrorists who murder Israelis.
00:14:11.240 They fund terrorists who murder Americans.
00:14:13.620 General Soleimani, who Trump took out in the first term, was directly responsible for the
00:14:18.600 murder of over 600 American servicemen and women.
00:14:23.120 And to give you a sense of the level of hatred from the Iranian radicals, and I want to draw
00:14:31.700 a distinction between the theocratic zealots, that is the Ayatollah and the Mullahs, versus
00:14:39.880 the Iranian people.
00:14:40.780 Look, the people of Iran before the revolution, Iran was a relatively secular country.
00:14:45.600 They were an ally of America.
00:14:47.620 They were, in many senses, pro-America.
00:14:50.400 And it was the radical jihadists that took it over, that twisted it, and they've been horrible
00:14:55.880 to the people of Iran.
00:14:56.880 And so I think there are a great many people in Iran who yearn to be free from these theocratic
00:15:02.140 lunatics who've dominated the country, and who engage in torture and murder and suppression
00:15:07.700 of their own citizens.
00:15:09.640 But the former—here's an amazing fact.
00:15:13.440 The former head of the Iranian nuclear program, who has some time ago gone to meet his maker,
00:15:23.580 and many say at the hands of the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence services, he had written
00:15:30.620 in his last will and testament that he wanted the following words written on his tombstone.
00:15:36.380 Here lies a man who sought to annihilate Israel.
00:15:43.300 Now, Ben, what kind of level of bilious hate do you have when the only thing you want to
00:15:50.540 be remembered for is, I am a bigot and an anti-Semite, and I want to murder as many Jews
00:15:56.680 as possible?
00:15:57.480 That's the sum total of my life.
00:15:59.100 And, listen, this is where a lot of Democrats and a lot of folks who are isolationists, they
00:16:08.000 say, well, what business is it of ours if Iran has a nuclear weapon?
00:16:13.620 I believe if the Ayatollah had a nuclear weapon, the odds are unacceptably high that he would
00:16:20.620 use that nuclear weapon.
00:16:22.780 And I want to draw a contrast to North Korea.
00:16:24.700 Look, Kim Jong-un, the dictator of North Korea, has a significant nuclear arsenal.
00:16:30.060 That was a result of catastrophic policy mistakes, most notably by Bill Clinton.
00:16:35.740 Bill Clinton went to Kim Jong-un's father, Kim Jong-il, and said, hey, let's cut a deal
00:16:41.080 with you.
00:16:42.280 We'll flow tens of billions of dollars for you in exchange for you promising not to make
00:16:46.800 nuclear weapons.
00:16:47.560 And Kim Jong-il said, hey, great idea.
00:16:49.540 I'll take your deal.
00:16:50.660 And he took the tens of billions of dollars and he used them to develop nuclear weapons.
00:16:54.320 And so now we've got a crackpot dictator on the Korean peninsula with nuclear weapons
00:16:59.680 that periodically goes off and threatens to fire the nuclear weapons at America.
00:17:04.960 You know, Trump famously calls Kim Jong-un rocket man.
00:17:10.760 The one thing that is a very dangerous part of the world because Kim Jong-un is megalomaniacal.
00:17:18.260 He's unpredictable.
00:17:19.900 But there is one thing we know, which is that he values staying in power.
00:17:25.300 And he knows if, God forbid, he ever used a nuclear weapon, that day his regime would
00:17:30.680 be over.
00:17:31.180 So hopefully you can have some modicum of rational deterrence with Kim Jong-un.
00:17:38.980 The problem with the Ayatollah is he is a theocratic zealot.
00:17:44.480 He glories in death and suicide.
00:17:48.540 And so the Ayatollah knows if he detonated a nuclear weapon, he knows that his regime
00:17:54.240 would instantly fall, that massive Iranian deaths would result.
00:17:58.900 The problem is, if he was able to murder millions of Jews or millions of Americans, he just might
00:18:06.500 be willing to take that trade with religious zealotry.
00:18:11.720 The ordinary cost-benefit analysis does not work.
00:18:15.120 And so I think if he had a nuclear weapon, we could find out for sure with a mushroom cloud
00:18:21.020 over Tel Aviv or New York or Los Angeles.
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00:18:54.140 There's also another aspect of this.
00:18:57.940 Iran is excellent at using terrorist organizations.
00:19:01.420 Yes.
00:19:02.080 They fund them.
00:19:03.020 They give them weaponry.
00:19:04.580 They train them.
00:19:05.640 I mean, there are countless examples of Iran using extremist groups.
00:19:11.500 If they also got this technology, what's the guarantee they wouldn't hand it over to somebody
00:19:17.720 like that?
00:19:18.440 Yeah.
00:19:19.060 And look, that's the problem.
00:19:20.840 Do they have a reliable ICBM that could carry a nuclear weapon from Iran to Manhattan?
00:19:28.920 Probably not.
00:19:29.980 Although they're trying to develop them.
00:19:31.220 They have an ICBM program.
00:19:33.140 And it's worth noting, you do not need an ICBM to get to Israel from Iran.
00:19:38.180 A ballistic missile is sufficient.
00:19:40.200 An intercontinental ballistic missile is designed to travel much further.
00:19:43.680 One hundred percent of the reason Iran has an ICBM program is to carry a nuclear warhead
00:19:52.240 to America.
00:19:53.120 Israel's not the target of their ICBMs.
00:19:55.580 America is.
00:19:56.740 But I would note also, they would not need an ICBM to do it.
00:20:01.440 If they could get it on a ship or a container and detonate it at a port anywhere in America,
00:20:07.020 or I'll tell you one enormous risk, they could put it in a satellite that is orbiting
00:20:11.900 over, say, the eastern seaboard and detonate a nuclear weapon, which would set off an EMP
00:20:17.300 and take down the electrical grid.
00:20:19.780 I'll tell you, I've seen the projections.
00:20:21.920 An EMP that took down the electrical grid could result in, over time, millions of deaths
00:20:27.820 in America.
00:20:28.380 That's the kind of vulnerability we're facing.
00:20:31.160 And so my view, President Trump is exactly right when he says that's not peace.
00:20:37.140 We're not going to find out what a world with an Iranian nuke is like.
00:20:41.780 And I'll tell you, I spoke with President Trump this weekend, and I told him I thought he was
00:20:47.940 doing a fantastic job, and he was agreeing.
00:20:51.740 He said, look, he gave Iran every option to avoid this, and they didn't want to.
00:20:56.600 They wouldn't take a deal.
00:20:58.040 They wouldn't agree to give up their centrifuges.
00:21:00.140 And I'll tell you what I told the President in particular.
00:21:02.340 Hold on, I've got to ask.
00:21:02.880 You said you talked to him this weekend.
00:21:04.400 Before this is, this is, before and during this is, all this is happening, correct?
00:21:09.460 Yeah, no, no.
00:21:09.960 I talked to him.
00:21:11.200 You and I are talking right now.
00:21:13.120 It is 12.25 a.m.
00:21:16.080 Sunday night, Monday morning.
00:21:17.820 I talked to him about two o'clock Sunday afternoon.
00:21:20.260 All right, so you said that he said that he offered him a deal.
00:21:23.680 That's being just either just completely disregarded by the media or severely underreported that
00:21:30.660 he was trying to get a deal done, and they refused to do it.
00:21:33.940 That's what the 60-day deadline was.
00:21:35.640 He gave him 60 days to cut a deal, and the deal had to be complete dismantlement.
00:21:39.740 And they basically told him, go jump in a lake.
00:21:42.060 We don't want a deal.
00:21:43.040 We want a nuclear weapon.
00:21:44.100 And so, you know, Trump said, all right.
00:21:46.820 And I will say there were some early reports from the administration that the administration
00:21:51.840 didn't know anything about it, and Trump very quickly corrected that and said, of course
00:21:55.820 we do about it, which is exactly right.
00:21:59.900 And listen, asking where does this go from here, I don't see any outcome that results
00:22:07.020 in American boots on the ground.
00:22:08.560 I don't see any outcome that results in American soldiers fighting in Iran.
00:22:13.000 What we're doing right now, we are assisting the Israelis.
00:22:16.920 We're assisting the Israelis in intel.
00:22:18.940 We're assisting the Israelis in surveillance.
00:22:22.080 Israel is engaged in targeted military strikes within Iran.
00:22:26.800 Iran is responding by firing a barrage of ballistic missiles at Israel aimed at civilian targets.
00:22:32.860 So they're landing missiles in Tel Aviv.
00:22:35.640 And I will say, in terms of escalation, I'm worried that we will see very significant casualties
00:22:41.700 in Israel.
00:22:42.300 I was speaking with a friend of mine this evening whose mom is in Jerusalem right now.
00:22:47.620 And he said his mom, in five days, has gotten very little sleep because every night at two
00:22:51.820 or three in the morning, the sirens go off and they have to rush to a bomb shelter.
00:22:56.040 So he said she has not slept very much for five days because that's constantly happening.
00:23:01.620 There is a real risk.
00:23:03.220 There have already been significant casualties, but they could be much higher.
00:23:06.500 And listen, the government of Israel knows that.
00:23:09.280 But the casualties from these missile strikes are relatively small compared to the millions
00:23:16.760 of Israelis who could die with an Iranian nuclear attack.
00:23:21.180 And so that's why the government is acting to stop that.
00:23:24.160 But I'll tell you what I also said to the president.
00:23:26.060 I said, thank you in particular for making absolutely clear to Iran the overwhelming consequences if
00:23:34.620 they attack American servicemen and women.
00:23:37.340 And yeah, that note that he put out there was very clear because he's saying, hey,
00:23:42.900 hey, we weren't involved in this.
00:23:44.500 And we're going to state that clearly.
00:23:46.620 This was Israel doing their thing.
00:23:48.660 But if you think for a moment that you can use this to justify attacking Americans anywhere
00:23:53.940 in the world, there will be hell to pay if you do that.
00:23:57.860 Yeah, look, I think if Iran carries out a significant strike on American servicemen and women,
00:24:04.520 then I think America, if they think the bombs coming from Israel are bad, I think they will face
00:24:10.000 massive retaliation.
00:24:12.200 And then that's called deterrence.
00:24:13.200 We want them not to strike our servicemen and women.
00:24:16.680 And and by the way, that's the difference between Joe Biden, who was so weak, he couldn't
00:24:21.280 deter anything.
00:24:22.480 It helps that our enemies are afraid of the commander in chief.
00:24:27.060 That that's where actually in the debates about foreign policy, those who argue for isolationism
00:24:33.120 get it wrong, because if you're so terrified to engage with your enemies that then you end
00:24:40.500 up causing more war.
00:24:42.160 I think Reagan was right.
00:24:43.880 I think Trump is right that when you're strong, when you tell your enemies, if you attack and
00:24:48.260 kill Americans, your military leaders are going to die.
00:24:52.020 What happens is most of the time they say, you know what, we're just not going to attack.
00:24:55.640 And you end up avoiding war because because they're scared of the commander in chief.
00:25:00.960 So where does this go from here?
00:25:03.360 And this is where everybody's saying, hey, look, we want an off ramp, right?
00:25:07.920 Like, that's something we do want.
00:25:09.700 We want this.
00:25:10.800 We want to protect lives.
00:25:12.280 But at the same time, Israel is, I think, making it very clear.
00:25:15.600 We have no choice but to do this.
00:25:17.400 And we're doing the world a huge service by doing it.
00:25:22.220 Yeah, so the Israeli government is talking on a time frame that this could last another
00:25:27.420 week or two.
00:25:28.820 They're engaged in massive bombings.
00:25:31.320 And at some point, you know, at some point, the question is, how much ordinance do they
00:25:36.400 have?
00:25:36.800 How much capacity do they have to keep bombing?
00:25:38.680 And how many targets do they have?
00:25:41.040 But, you know, I will say also, one of the most significant sites is Fordow.
00:25:48.120 Now, Fordow is a nuclear bunker that is built into the side of a mountain.
00:25:54.780 And it's built deliberately to make it very difficult to strike, to carry out an airstrike.
00:26:00.160 And it's where much of their nuclear research is being conducted.
00:26:04.940 Now, there were reports on Sunday that Israel carried out a strike at Fordow.
00:26:08.900 But but at least based on publicly reported material, Israel does not have sufficiently
00:26:15.700 effective bunker buster bombs to be able to take out the deep underground laboratories
00:26:21.600 at Fordow.
00:26:22.620 And so one of the open questions is is to the best of my knowledge, the only military that
00:26:28.420 has those bombs is the United States.
00:26:30.100 We have really big bunker busters that are made to take out deep, deep underground facilities
00:26:36.500 like the Fordow nuclear facilities.
00:26:38.320 And so one open question I have for a long time called for the United States to make
00:26:43.900 those bunker busters available to Israel.
00:26:47.260 I think taking out Fordow makes a lot of sense.
00:26:50.440 I think if Israel does it and by the way, I'll point out, look, Israel is is is a small
00:26:55.300 country is Israel is about the size of the state of New Jersey.
00:26:58.340 And and they are fighting against our enemies, our enemies who have pledged they want to murder
00:27:04.560 us.
00:27:04.920 And they're doing so at great risk to themselves.
00:27:07.460 But but and so that is something to be grateful for.
00:27:11.000 But understand they're taking out Iran's nuclear capabilities is very, very good for America
00:27:17.080 because it makes America safer.
00:27:18.960 And I think if Israel finishes the job of taking out their nuclear capability, I think this these
00:27:26.560 attacks likely end with within the next couple of weeks.
00:27:31.120 You look at Donald Trump saying we can probably get a deal done.
00:27:35.120 And is that after we accomplish the mission, if you're reading between the lines here?
00:27:39.660 I mean, you've spoken with them.
00:27:40.840 Is this a that we got to allow our ally Israel to do what they need to do in that time frame
00:27:46.020 as well?
00:27:47.000 So, listen, I'm skeptical that Iran will ever, ever cut a real deal.
00:27:52.120 I don't think you could negotiate with crazy.
00:27:54.920 And I think these people are crazy.
00:27:56.080 And so I think one of the things that would enhance American security massively is to see
00:28:04.980 the Ayatollah fall and to see the mullahs lose power, to see different leadership come
00:28:11.640 to come to Iran.
00:28:12.480 I think that would make Israel much safer.
00:28:15.080 I think that would make America much safer.
00:28:17.200 And I think that would make the Iranian people better off.
00:28:19.600 Now, let me be clear.
00:28:20.820 I'm not advocating that we send in a bunch of American soldiers to make that happen.
00:28:24.800 I am advocating that we use maximum pressure and economic sanctions to pressure the regime
00:28:30.780 in a way that that might encourage this regime to fall, because I think that they have demonstrated
00:28:36.940 that they are are homicidal and murderously directing their urges towards killing Americans.
00:28:45.240 And so removing people from power who are trying to kill Americans makes America safer.
00:28:50.200 Let me also go back to something you mentioned earlier.
00:28:52.780 And this seems to clearly be part of Israel's strategy, which is you go after and take
00:28:58.380 out people that that are, in essence, holding down the people and silencing the people in
00:29:04.040 Iran in the leadership roles.
00:29:06.080 That's part of who they seem to be going after.
00:29:08.440 That could be huge for for allowing what you just described to actually happen, a revolution
00:29:13.840 within Israel or I should say within Iran.
00:29:16.220 Well, and listen, one of the conscious choices that it appears that Israel made was not to
00:29:22.740 target the Ayatollah himself.
00:29:24.900 And I don't have I have no classified information.
00:29:27.580 By the way.
00:29:28.020 Yeah.
00:29:28.600 Why is that out of curiosity?
00:29:30.420 So I don't know for sure.
00:29:31.980 I have no classified information on this, but I can give an educated guess, which is that
00:29:37.160 taking out the leader of a country through military forces is a significant step.
00:29:43.640 Now, mind you, the Ayatollah is perfectly fine hiring hitmen to try to murder Donald Trump.
00:29:48.880 So the Ayatollah has no problem doing it.
00:29:50.940 And I have no doubt that if the Ayatollah could could murder Prime Minister Netanyahu,
00:29:55.960 he would do so in the blink of an eye.
00:29:58.620 He has not been able to do so.
00:30:01.040 But I think the Israelis, given their success in taking out everyone else, I think it's reasonable
00:30:06.340 to assume that they would have had a real prospect of taking the Ayatollah out had they chosen
00:30:11.380 to do so.
00:30:12.080 My guess is that they made a decision that taking out the leader of the country could
00:30:16.540 backfire, especially given that he is also a religious leader and you run into a danger
00:30:22.540 of potentially making him a martyr.
00:30:25.420 And it is not clear if you toppled him in those circumstances, you might get a younger
00:30:31.560 theocratic lunatic take over instead.
00:30:34.160 And so I think it is a reasonable decision for Israel to say, rather than target the Ayatollah
00:30:40.940 directly, let's take out every one of their top military officers that they would use to
00:30:46.680 prosecute a war.
00:30:47.720 And by the way, those are the same people they use to push down an uprising to oppress
00:30:53.120 their people.
00:30:53.680 And so degrading their capabilities, it's what they've done with Hezbollah.
00:30:59.220 They've taken out their top leadership.
00:31:01.120 It's what they've done.
00:31:02.220 It's what they've done with Hamas.
00:31:04.040 And I'll tell you, on Saturday, Israel conducted a strike in Yemen, killing the Houthi chief
00:31:11.220 of staff, Mohammed Abdul Karim al-Gamari, who was responsible for overseeing Houthi military
00:31:19.780 operations and directing the procurement and deployment of a number of weapon systems for
00:31:25.300 them.
00:31:25.560 The Houthis are another arm of Iran.
00:31:28.080 And so what Israel has done is weakened Iran on every front.
00:31:32.640 And that oppressive infrastructure, their ability to wage war, their ability to kill Israelis,
00:31:38.580 their ability to kill Americans, their ability to fund terrorism, and their ability to suppress
00:31:44.100 their people, all of those are substantially weakened.
00:31:47.940 That's a very good thing.
00:31:49.180 Final question for you on this.
00:31:51.000 As we move forward through this week, I think it's pretty obvious the media is obsessed with
00:31:56.720 Donald Trump somehow not standing with Israel or trying to drive a wedge.
00:32:02.400 Do you think there's any chance at all that can happen?
00:32:04.800 Because in the early questions, it was almost like, you guys are idiots.
00:32:08.840 Come on.
00:32:09.780 I think President Trump has been the strongest pro-Israel president in the history of America.
00:32:14.600 It's an exact contrast with Joe Biden.
00:32:17.020 Joe Biden was the most anti-Israel president in the history of America.
00:32:21.820 The fact that they occurred back and back.
00:32:24.080 You want to talk about whiplash.
00:32:26.340 You'll recall we did this podcast when Bibi came to Washington, and I met with him for about
00:32:32.480 two hours.
00:32:33.180 He is a good friend.
00:32:34.740 I have not spoken to Bibi since this war broke out, although I did speak with the Israeli ambassador
00:32:40.060 to the United States on Thursday night, the night the war began.
00:32:43.960 And listen, their successes are significant, but they have the complete backing of the Trump
00:32:53.480 administration, and that is important.
00:32:56.140 I do think there are some voices within the administration that are pressing back.
00:33:02.300 And part of the reason I talked to President Trump today was to say, what you're doing is
00:33:07.820 exactly right.
00:33:08.640 You're making America safer by allowing Israel to take out Iran's nukes, and you're also
00:33:14.400 protecting American servicemen and women.
00:33:17.000 Keep doing it.
00:33:18.000 And he agreed emphatically.
00:33:20.280 Don't forget we do this show Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
00:33:22.660 Hit that subscribe or auto-download button so you do not miss an episode as we take you
00:33:27.580 behind the scenes, even these conversations with President Trump as well.
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00:33:32.100 Please share this podcast on social media as well.
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00:33:40.600 And the Senator and I will see you back here on Wednesday morning.
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