Verdict with Ted Cruz - Lindsey Graham's American Legacy of Loyalty, Laughter and Leadership

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00:00:34.600 Welcome. It is Verdict with Ted Cruz, Week in Review, and it's so nice to have you with us.

00:00:39.300 As you know, normally we do the top stories of the week and let you get up to date on what you may have missed this past week.

00:00:45.760 However, we're going to do a special show today, and it is remembering our good friend Lindsey Graham.

00:00:50.960 If you missed Senator Cruz talking about Lindsey after his sudden death, we took a moment to talk about everything he'd accomplished and some really cool behind-the-scenes stories.

00:01:01.620 So with that being said, it is The Week in Review, and it starts right now.

00:01:06.200 Look, this was a hard day. This was a shocking day.

00:01:09.580 I woke up, as so many people did across America, with the news that Lindsey had passed away

00:01:16.160 of what has been reported to be a massive heart attack at his home Saturday night.

00:01:23.660 I was stunned.

00:01:25.100 I had five or six texts in my phone as I woke up, and I just stared at them in disbelief.

00:01:31.260 It did not seem real.

00:01:34.320 Lindsey was a good friend of mine.

00:01:37.000 uh lindsey was he he was one of a kind he was someone he and i did not always see eye to eye

00:01:43.500 in fact we battled on a lot of issues but but we also agreed on a whole bunch of issues and and we

00:01:49.000 were close allies fighting for years uh to confirm conservative judges and conservative conservative

00:01:56.580 justices uh we were close allies fighting to defend the second amendment uh we were close

00:02:02.260 allies fighting to support the men and women of the military. We were close allies fighting to

00:02:08.540 defend our national security, to stand with our allies, to stand with Israel. And we were close

00:02:15.940 allies standing up to America's enemies, and especially Iran. And Lindsey was someone,

00:02:22.660 he was a force of nature, but his personality, I got to say, if you spent time with Lindsey,

00:02:30.640 i think it was impossible to dislike lindsey he was charming he was funny as hell like just

00:02:38.420 witty i for years i used to say to lindsey and john kennedy i'd ask each of them i don't know

00:02:45.820 which one of you is funnier and they'd but kind of both sort of bow up their chest and get mad at

00:02:50.240 him yeah and i actually i i do have a theory i think john kennedy is the better stand-up comedian

00:02:57.480 Like if John Kennedy, and John prepares a fair amount of his material, but when he's delivering it, he could be a professional comedian.

00:03:04.960 Yes.

00:03:05.220 But Lindsey was wittier.

00:03:07.660 Just sitting there, he would fire zingers that you're like, it was, and many of them were self-deprecating.

00:03:15.940 He did not take himself too seriously. 0.50

00:03:18.020 He would make fun of himself like crazy.

00:03:20.940 He did.

00:03:21.460 and it was you know i i've traveled abroad with lindsey multiple times

00:03:28.340 he loved our country absolutely with a passion look lindsey wasn't married he didn't have kids

00:03:38.380 every ounce of his life was the senate he would travel all over the world i mean it's just what

00:03:45.260 he did he was out you know i i think it was beautiful and in some ways fitting so he had

00:03:50.900 just come back from Ukraine. He'd been been meeting with President Zelensky. He came back

00:03:55.080 to the United States. Saturday night, he was on the phone with President Trump. And by the way,

00:04:00.280 he was one of President Trump's closest friends. And I say that without exaggeration, because

00:04:06.100 Lindsey and Trump disagreed on a lot of issues. But Trump loved the guy. And it was hard.

00:04:13.660 You saw him talking about him on Meet the Press. He's like, he kind of had like

00:04:17.500 unfettered access to the White House? He goes, I don't know that to a lot of people. But he was

00:04:21.540 like, Lindsay just came over all the time. Look, Lindsay was like the Trump whisperer. 0.73

00:04:27.360 He would call Trump. He talked to him early in the morning. He talked to him late at night. He

00:04:31.660 talked to them day after day after day. And Trump didn't always agree with him, but he would listen

00:04:36.660 to him. And Lindsay, when Trump was really mad at something, Lindsay could kind of walk him back

00:04:41.360 off that cliff a little bit. Lindsey was like, and I spent a lot of time with Lindsey and Trump

00:04:48.460 together, and the bond they had was really special. And it was, in some ways, almost a

00:04:56.060 perfect distillation of his life, that he is in Ukraine, he flies back to the United States,

00:05:01.660 he's on the phone with President Trump, and Sunday morning he was scheduled to be on Meet

00:05:06.600 the press it would have been his 64th appearance on meet the press and and that's a lot in politics

00:05:13.680 by the way meet the press is is kind of like saturday night live if you're like a celebrity

00:05:19.740 being on meet the press that's a number that i would love to know what that is ranking compared

00:05:24.780 to other republicans you've done it a lot but it's not 60 something times no i i've done it a

00:05:29.960 lot but it's nowhere close to that and and i try to be pretty deliberate i i do sunday shows

00:05:35.340 when I've got a particular message that I'm trying to drive,

00:05:39.120 like when there's a reason I try to be quite deliberate about doing it.

00:05:42.840 Lindsay, look, look, I have two teenage daughters.

00:05:45.540 I've got a wife.

00:05:46.460 I've got a family.

00:05:47.120 I want to be back in Texas, you know, with my family.

00:05:50.320 And so a Sunday show, there had to be a reason to do it.

00:05:53.700 Lindsay, part of what he was, was just a warrior every day.

00:05:56.700 He'd go do the Sunday shows where the news were great.

00:05:59.420 He'd go to the Sunday shows when the news was terrible.

00:06:01.760 And, like, nobody wanted to be out there defending whatever was on fire at that moment.

00:06:05.840 And Lindsey was like, I'll do it.

00:06:07.840 And part of it is he would do it in a cheerful, funny, affable way.

00:06:13.600 If things were a mess, he'd kind of acknowledge, yeah, they're a mess, but, you know, all right.

00:06:18.240 It was, I literally have been walking around in a daze much of today.

00:06:25.360 Because, I mean, I spent a lot of time with Lindsey, and we would go out, and I've been texting with a lot of them.

00:06:30.140 Oh, by the way, you shared a picture that popped up on your phone.

00:06:32.760 You guys were recently in Paris.

00:06:36.120 And this was just, you know how iPhone kind of randomly picks pictures?

00:06:39.880 Yeah, memories.

00:06:40.520 Now, I'm sort of convinced our phones like spy on us and know everything.

00:06:46.360 Yeah, that is accurate.

00:06:48.660 I agree with you on that one.

00:06:50.260 But bizarrely enough, today, my iPhone kind of midday popped up a picture

00:06:55.360 of me and Lindsay and Katie Britt and Eric Schmidt, all four of us in Paris. And we're on a riverboat

00:07:03.940 and we're right in front of the Eiffel Tower. And we went for the 80th anniversary of D-Day. It was

00:07:07.760 an amazing trip. It was a powerful, beautiful trip with, you know, we got to see these World

00:07:13.340 War II veterans who it's the very tail end of their journey on earth. And the four of us are

00:07:19.020 just arm in arm, and it was just beautiful. And I've been texting and talking to friends and

00:07:27.220 colleagues, and all of us are just going, this doesn't seem real. Real, yeah. I mean, it's,

00:07:36.240 you know, I did an interview with a reporter today who said, who will fill the void? Who

00:07:41.680 will fill Lindsey Graham's shoes? And my answer is nobody. Nobody. The role he played in the Senate

00:07:48.580 he was universally respected but also universally liked and even adored by people who

00:07:55.640 disagreed with him passionately yeah um he could be by the way the guy was as effective a cross

00:08:04.940 examiner as i've ever seen lindsey was a south carolina trial lawyer and he could on the

00:08:11.200 judiciary committee the two real committees together so people understand you guys it wasn't

00:08:17.480 just being like senators together you guys worked on committees as well we worked judiciary we spent

00:08:23.900 thousands of hours together we were on senate armed services together we were on foreign

00:08:28.580 relations together yep and we just worked hand in hand on a lot of issues there are issues where

00:08:34.040 we disagreed immigration lindsay and i were in very different places but but there were a lot

00:08:39.120 of issues when lindsay was with you i i don't know that there was a more potent ally in the senate

00:08:46.260 when he was with you yeah uh and it would he he could be look it it was i can't count there are

00:08:56.840 100 different senate republican lunches when people were having really passionate sharp

00:09:02.640 disagreements about something and lindsey would stand up and say something and he'd always have

00:09:07.560 a joke and people be double over laughing there'd be times when people are like screaming at each

00:09:11.060 other, almost ready to like, you know, take a swing at each other. And Lindsey would sort of 1.00

00:09:16.820 cut the tension and bring people back to the task at hand. You know, when I'm in D.C. fairly

00:09:25.940 regularly, I'll have dinner with other senators and there's kind of a group of folks that I invite

00:09:29.840 that are sort of the like guys I like hanging out with. And Lindsey was almost the auto invite,

00:09:36.220 because if lindsey showed up at the table your ribs would hurt from laughing and and by the way

00:09:43.420 it wasn't just that he was like telling jokes he was just insightful and smart and he cared

00:09:48.820 look look whether you love this country or not that's one of the things he i don't think people

00:09:53.620 understand how much he loved this country you mentioned he didn't have he wasn't married didn't

00:09:57.740 have kids his family was america his family was defending america i said this this morning on fox

00:10:04.000 and friends he had a grand it was a love story with the united states of america yes i'll tell

00:10:10.740 you it was also with our military so absolutely lindsey spent 33 years in the air force active

00:10:17.620 duty as a colonel don't know that he rose up to being a colonel i did tell him i said lindsey if 0.97

00:10:24.120 the clowns at the pentagon ever try to give you a star damn it i'm going to the floor to filibuster 0.82

00:10:29.200 it i ain't calling you general graham you can be colonel graham yeah but just understand there's a 0.98

00:10:35.280 hard ceiling and and and he basically agreed with me and said yeah i sure hope they don't make me a

00:10:40.300 general they shouldn't i mean i mean that's like a classic he was and i've been with him both in

00:10:48.040 the u.s and abroad where we would meet with service men and women and he had a connection

00:10:53.600 to the men and women of the armed services, a love affair, where they loved him, and I would

00:11:01.800 see them come up and hug him, and he viewed it as his mission. I'm going to fight for you. If

00:11:09.680 you're defending this country, if you sign up to be in the military, I'm going to fight ferociously

00:11:14.940 for you and and that was it was real it was sincere it was passionate that was a beautiful

00:11:23.280 thing you know i i think one of the cool things about his services country i've got a lot of

00:11:28.220 friends that signed up after 9-11 and in politics sometimes they get frustrated with people that

00:11:34.960 serve their country and they go to washington and everything is based on well i was in the

00:11:38.740 military and you weren't kind of thing he didn't use his military service that way no no and a lot

00:11:44.920 of people didn't realize that number one he was a colonel uh until he passed away a lot of people

00:11:49.200 didn't realize he was in for 30 years a lot of people didn't realize he was in the reserves

00:11:52.040 while serving his country in congress he he continued to be in the reserves and and to

00:11:57.480 continue to do that but he didn't come in and go well i would i sir it wasn't a trump card for him

00:12:02.840 and it was it was it was he he obviously fought hard for for military and he fought hard for

00:12:09.640 things in the state that were related to military and military complex and bases but it wasn't his

00:12:14.640 number one thing on tv like well let me tell you why because i served and you didn't he didn't use

00:12:19.880 it that way publicly never and a lot and a lot of people that i know that are in the military and

00:12:24.800 have recently retired that gave 20 25 years that's what they liked about him the most well and and

00:12:30.860 And look, to understand Lindsay, he grew up in modest circumstances in South Carolina.

00:12:36.900 He grew up, his parents ran a bar and a pool hall.

00:12:40.820 And part of to understand Lindsay's magic is he was like the best bartender you've ever seen, who would smile and crack a joke.

00:12:49.740 And whether you were celebrating a great thing that happened in your life or you were there weeping because your wife just divorced you or you just had a death in the family, and he could – the charm that he brought, the sort of effortless – I remember years ago I was at a Silver Elephant Dinner, which is the big Republican dinner in South Carolina.

00:13:12.480 it. He was speaking there. And at the time, Reince Priebus was the chairman of the RNC.

00:13:19.580 And I think Reince was speaking at that dinner. This was a while ago. But I think Reince was

00:13:23.040 speaking at that dinner. I remember Lindsey got up and went, Reince Priebus? Reince Priebus?

00:13:30.580 What the hell is that? Is that like a French electric car? And like, it brought the house

00:13:38.940 down. I mean, he would throw lines out there all the time. And it was, he also had a special gift

00:13:48.680 for, I would say, earning the trust of and providing really valuable counsel to extraordinarily

00:14:00.980 volatile, larger-than-life figures, and two in particular, John McCain and Donald Trump.

00:14:07.080 yes now look john mccain i served a lot of years with john uh when i arrived in the senate john 0.72

00:14:13.660 mccain hated my guts in fact he was quoted as saying i hate his effing guts like john and i

00:14:19.200 battled in a bloody way yes over the years uh john and i became friends but john was 0.69

00:14:27.940 you know in in terms of the history of the senate john mccain was one of those legends

00:14:33.000 who have walked the halls of the senate i disagreed with so many positions john had

00:14:36.560 yeah but but the man was a war hero the man fought for a country he was he was imprisoned

00:14:42.080 in vietnam he was tortured he denied early release i mean he was larger than life

00:14:47.100 yes and he could be volcanic like john's temper was was was real it was real oh i had been on

00:14:55.960 the other end of that you've been on the other end of that and it is let me tell you i the talking

00:15:00.980 twos that i received earlier in my career were brutal when i got them lindsey was john mccain's

00:15:08.500 best friend in the senate and he was the mccain whisperer i mean it was an amazing thing and

00:15:13.800 lindsey would kind of soften john's you know he'd come in and pound the hell out of someone and

00:15:18.420 lindsey'd sort of cut a joke and like mel you know make it all better yeah it was joe aberman said he

00:15:25.880 spoke democrat and republican well is i think the way he described it he could he could he could

00:15:30.800 and he could speak mccain which was really important and he also speaks trump like look

00:15:36.760 yeah there are times just just like john mccain we get really pissed off there there are times

00:15:41.500 this is no secret when donald trump gets pissed off and when he's angry and he's like on a tear

00:15:45.540 lindsey was we kind of all say lindsey go go on in there and sort of talk him down and lindsey could

00:15:51.640 it was an amazing thing he'd just sort of laugh a little bit and you know trump would yell at him

00:15:59.180 and he'd make Trump laugh and it would just soften the whole thing. He had a gift for that. And it

00:16:05.460 was not just because he wanted people to like him. He had a gift because he was trying to get these

00:16:10.880 great men. He was trying to move them in what he believed was a positive direction for America.

00:16:16.580 And it was a beautiful thing to watch him do that. I will say, Lindsey, some of y'all who

00:16:25.220 listen to verdict may not know this lindsey graham was the very first guest yes in the history of

00:16:30.700 verdict like when we had just launched this show this show launched on the first night of the very

00:16:36.620 first trump impeachment and the show went from zero look before we launched we had zero viewers

00:16:43.460 zero listeners yeah it skyrocketed up the charts and it became the number one ranked podcast in

00:16:49.620 the world. And as we're doing it, and we would do it every night, this was PB, pre-Ben. This is

00:16:58.900 what I was doing with Michael Knowles, who's a great friend of both of ours. And it would be

00:17:05.440 every night after the impeachment trial, we'd go and do a verdict that night and put it out

00:17:09.760 real time. And Lindsey came. All right, I want you to watch the cold open for our show

00:17:17.000 that Lindsay recorded as our very first guest ever.

00:17:20.260 All right, take a listen.

00:17:21.440 This is, again, the cold open.

00:17:23.600 Lindsay Graham, the first guest on Verdict back in the day.

00:17:26.920 Hello, I'm Senator Lindsay Graham.

00:17:28.660 Welcome to Verdict with Ted Cruz,

00:17:30.740 the number one podcast in the entire country.

00:17:33.800 What is a podcast?

00:17:42.920 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:17:45.280 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:17:46.280 I'm joined by not one, but two U.S. senators to help us break down the most shocking day of the

00:17:53.100 entire impeachment trial. Senator Graham, thank you so much for being here. Glad to be here.

00:17:57.140 Gentlemen, the last time that we sat down, I was told this impeachment was going to drag on for

00:18:02.720 weeks. We were going to get witnesses. We were going to get Bolton. We were going to get Hunter

00:18:05.840 Biden. This was going to get long and ugly. I go to sleep. I wake up today and the senators are

00:18:12.400 voting no more witnesses this thing could be over next week senator cruz what happened well today

00:18:17.380 was a big day and let me say lindsey thank you welcome i appreciate your coming this is late at

00:18:22.900 night we spent all day all day in the city a lot of money on production well this was you're right

00:18:30.860 yesterday if the vote had gone differently today this trial could have gone on for months we could

00:18:36.780 have seen it drag on and on and on and it was a big deal it was up in the air and today was the

00:18:41.700 most important vote we've had in the entire but by the way i love that even there he cracked a

00:18:46.440 joke he's like you're not spending a lot on production like he had to get a zinger in there

00:18:50.320 that's just what made lindsey lindsey well and and look at the time we were filming verdict in a

00:18:56.960 basement studio about a mile from capitol hill and and so we drove there after the day of the

00:19:02.640 trial it was like midnight and you went to this basement studio you walked in a dark alley and

00:19:07.360 You walk down these, like, concrete stairs.

00:19:10.740 And listen, Lindsay and I at the time were not actually that close of friends.

00:19:15.080 We had been more adversaries than friends.

00:19:17.440 Our friendship developed over the years.

00:19:19.700 And as we're walking down the stairs, he's like, I feel like Joe Pesci in Goodfellas.

00:19:25.500 Are you getting ready to whack me?

00:19:26.880 Because we're, like, walking into a dark basement in the middle of nowhere.

00:19:32.080 And he looks around.

00:19:34.120 in our studio we had this this shag carpet out of the 1970s we had these big old brown leather

00:19:40.900 chairs we had these giant microphones kind of like we still have the giant microphones yeah

00:19:44.600 and he says on the don't forget the cactus don't yeah okay i miss miss our cactus our cactus is

00:19:51.600 still uh our cactus is still part of the verdict family uh but he looked around and he said said

00:19:58.800 this on the podcast he's like you guys are the number one podcast in the world who the hell is

00:20:06.960 number two some guy in a van by the river yeah like it was it was side splitting but but that

00:20:16.420 charm it had real power yes because it would cause people to listen it would break through

00:20:24.480 and listen he was not always joking uh if you were to think uh of the singular moment what is

00:20:33.680 the number one thing people remember that lindsey graham did and i'm going to suggest it was when

00:20:38.700 during the brett kavanaugh confirmation i was going to say no doubt brett kavanaugh and and

00:20:44.040 saving brett kavanaugh from the insanity of the left that were accusing him of the most horrific

00:20:49.200 crimes without any evidence making it up as they went trying to destroy him the same way they went

00:20:54.700 after Clarence Thomas very much but in a TMZ 2020 plus year type of going after him just more vile

00:21:02.320 social media you didn't have that with a Clarence Thomas right like Clarence Thomas was ABC NBC

00:21:07.480 CNN it was mainstream now they were trying to assassinate Brett Kavanaugh's integrity and they

00:21:13.240 were using all social media to try to accomplish it. Well, and Lindsey unloaded on the Democrats,

00:21:19.880 and it changed the entire dynamics of the hearing. I want you, most of y'all have seen and heard

00:21:25.240 this, but I want you to give a listen again, because I think there's a real argument without

00:21:29.400 Lindsey doing this. Brett Kavanaugh may not get confirmed. Give a listen to Lindsey at the hearing.

00:21:35.020 Are you aware that at 923, on the night of July the 9th, the day you were nominated

00:21:42.440 to the supreme court by president trump senator schumer said 23 minutes after your nomination

00:21:49.120 i will oppose judge kavanaugh's nomination with everything i have i have a bipartisan and i hope

00:21:55.320 a bipartisan majority will do the same the stakes are simply too high for anything less well if you

00:22:02.300 weren't aware of it you are now did you meet with senator diane feinstein on august 20th i did meet

00:22:08.540 with senator feinstein did you know that her staff had already recommended a lawyer to dr ford

00:22:13.700 i did not know that did you know that her and her staff had this allegations allegations for

00:22:19.860 over 20 days i did not know that at the time if you wanted an fbi investigation you could have

00:22:26.880 come to us what you want to do is destroy this guy's life hold this seat open and hope you win

00:22:33.720 in 2020. You've said that, not me. You've got nothing to apologize for. When you see Sotomayor

00:22:42.660 and Kagan, tell them that Lindsey said, oh, because I voted for them. I would never do to them what

00:22:48.920 you've done to this guy. This is the most unethical sham since I've been in politics. And if you

00:22:57.860 really wanted to know the truth, you sure as hell wouldn't have done what you've done to this guy. 1.00

00:23:02.460 Are you a gang rapist? No. I cannot imagine what you and your family have gone through. 1.00

00:23:11.220 Boy, y'all want power. God, I hope you never get it. I hope the American people can see through

00:23:16.120 this sham, that you knew about it and you held it. You had no intention of protecting Dr. Ford.

00:23:23.100 None. She's as much of a victim as you are. God, I hate to say it because these have been my

00:23:30.120 friends but let me tell you when it comes to this you're looking for a fair process you came to the

00:23:37.620 wrong town at the wrong time my friend senator you you look at that frustration that was genuine

00:23:45.440 it wasn't inauthentic it wasn't something that was a a pre-planned moment it wasn't scripted

00:23:52.100 we see a lot of scripted moments from politicians these days and some of these hearings are it's

00:23:56.600 all pre-organized, pre-planned, protesters involved. That was real and raw. And as you

00:24:04.240 mentioned, and I think you should explain a little bit more, this forced and changed the direction

00:24:09.400 that hearing was going. Well, and listen, Lindsey's career, for a lot of his career, he's been a very

00:24:15.280 bipartisan senator. He's worked with a lot of Democrats. As he noted, he voted to confirm both

00:24:21.100 Justice Sotomayor and Justice Kagan. And the Democrats were all happy with him. They were all

00:24:26.100 lovey-dovey. And so when he says, look, I would never do to them what you're doing to Brett

00:24:30.500 Kavanaugh, that had power to it. I was sitting there at the dais when Lindsey was unloading,

00:24:37.420 and you could have heard a pin drop in the room. You know, the silence when he asked Brett Kavanaugh,

00:24:44.740 are you a gang rapist? And Brett says no. And Lindsey's just silent for about four seconds, 0.98

00:24:52.420 and the entire silence, there's not a peep in the hearing room. That was a riveting moment.

00:24:59.560 And by the way, you mentioned Clarence Thomas. Clarence Thomas is on the Supreme Court because

00:25:04.160 during his confirmation hearing, the Democrats did the same thing, which is they sandbagged him

00:25:08.660 with allegations from Anita Hill. And the American people heard Anita Hill's testimony

00:25:15.000 and Clarence Thomas's, and by a margin of about two to one, they believe Justice Thomas.

00:25:20.600 The same thing happened with Brett Kavanaugh.

00:25:22.960 That's why Clarence Thomas got confirmed.

00:25:24.580 That's why Brett Kavanaugh got confirmed.

00:25:26.520 And Lindsay's, that moment there played, I think, a real part in people assessing and

00:25:31.140 saying, wait a second, this is not a real inquiry.

00:25:34.360 This is not a fair assessment.

00:25:36.100 This is a political slime job.

00:25:38.620 These guys had these allegations for weeks.

00:25:40.860 They sat on them.

00:25:41.700 They held them back.

00:25:43.060 This is a drive-by shooting by partisans who just want power.

00:25:48.540 That was what was effective.

00:25:50.440 And I'll tell you, so my mom, Ben, you know my mom.

00:25:53.920 I love my mom.

00:25:55.280 She's 91, about to be 92 in November.

00:25:57.840 She is as conservative as it can be.

00:25:59.740 My mom thinks you and I are a little wobbly.

00:26:02.060 She is a rock-ribbed conservative.

00:26:05.820 By the way, I don't know if I ever said this on the show.

00:26:08.400 I've never had more fun hanging out with your mom than your re-election night,

00:26:13.020 watching her be excited, watching her son, not a senator, her son,

00:26:17.520 yeah when re-election and just the beaming joy on her face you weren't there when like in that part

00:26:25.020 you were busy and she she came in and she was just so happy and i was like this might be my

00:26:31.140 favorite moment of the whole night so so my mom prior to the kavanaugh hearing was not a lindsey

00:26:37.900 graham fan she mostly knew lindsey because he and i had battled a lot on immigration we had very

00:26:43.900 different views on immigration and and so that's you know anyone who fights her son my mom doesn't

00:26:48.260 like uh and and so when that cross-examine examination ends my mother sends me a text

00:26:57.120 and says okay i now love lindsey graham and i actually got up a few minutes later and i walked

00:27:08.100 over to lindsey and i pulled out my phone i said lindsey here's a text i just got from my mom and

00:27:13.820 i clicked on it and he cracked up laughing and then my mother proceeded to go to his website

00:27:20.960 uh and to give him 35 are you serious that's so cool i am serious and i told him i said lindsey

00:27:28.920 in my entire time in politics my mother's never contributed to my campaign and she's giving you

00:27:35.260 money like it was and he loved that but it was look he could be when he was engaged in a fight

00:27:44.920 he was as effective a warrior as you could see and and that was powerful and and it was

00:27:55.280 he and i worked together look you look last summer the working families tax cut the big

00:28:01.640 reconciliation bill, which we've talked a lot about on this podcast. I still think it's the

00:28:05.760 legislation that has the most conservative victories in it of any bill that's ever passed

00:28:10.560 into law. Yeah. Lindsay was the chairman of the budget committee and the budget committee plays

00:28:16.680 a critical part in reconciliation. It has to pass the budget resolution to begin with.

00:28:22.600 Lindsay and I worked hand in hand. I don't know that we win that reconciliation battle without

00:28:27.840 lindsey's leadership as chairman of the budget committee and and he would there were times when

00:28:33.100 people are you know look our majority is not always rock solid you have people that run off

00:28:39.580 this way run off that way and and to get 50 votes to yes is really really hard and and and lindsey

00:28:47.320 was was awfully good at it um he was good at making friends he would i i mean that's one of

00:28:56.180 the lost arts and politics i think is is just how good he was at making friends and and making

00:29:02.500 friends that he disagreed with in his own party and making friends the other side but he also had

00:29:08.000 just a way of understanding when there's moments to laugh and not i i told this earlier i was young

00:29:13.900 i don't i don't think i've ever told you this story i was it was probably 2005 or 6 7 somewhere

00:29:20.660 in there and it was still something deal with Iraq or Afghanistan and I was on I think it was

00:29:26.260 Shepard Smith's show on Fox back in the day and they asked me directly about Lindsey Graham and

00:29:32.240 something he'd said they played the thought come out of it they asked me and I was pretty blunt

00:29:36.740 and I was like I strongly disagree with him yada yada yada I get done and it was one of those you

00:29:42.460 don't know it's coming moments welcome to live tv and so I gave my assessment I get done

00:29:47.180 senator within probably a minute i was not out of the seat yet my phone rings now if you're 20

00:29:55.280 something and your phone rings and it's a senator like that's like it's you know you answer right so

00:30:00.260 i answer it it's 202 number and it's lindsey graham i don't know who he got my number from

00:30:04.960 and i answer and he starts just unloading on me telling me why i'm wrong but it was all a ruse

00:30:12.420 he was messing with me because he was down the hall in the green room at fox knowing he was going

00:30:18.320 to see me in 20 seconds so i'm on the phone walking out of the studio and it's you know the

00:30:23.060 hallway there it's a short hallway you go down makeup's on the left green room's on the right

00:30:26.500 and i'm hearing the conversation in my ear delayed and i'm hearing his voice and i walk in and we'd

00:30:33.440 never met before like never had met before that moment and i'm on the phone with him and he looks

00:30:38.440 him he goes gotcha and that was it like he didn't mind that was ripping on him and i walked in there

00:30:43.920 we laughed and he talked to me for a minute but he literally just wanted to mess with me like it

00:30:48.020 was like the perfect you know joke there and that's how he was but like after that it was hard

00:30:53.360 he was smart it was harder for me to go after him on tv because i liked him personally from that

00:30:59.980 moment of him he could have been a jerk he wasn't he saw the humor in the moment and was like i'm

00:31:05.560 going to mess with this guy and it was it was a brilliant political move and that's who lindsey 0.87

00:31:10.720 was i don't know a single senator out of 99 other senators who who didn't didn't like genuinely like

00:31:21.040 lindsey and consider him a friend like all of them and it was a gift and by the way i've been

00:31:25.680 in senate lunches and we've talked about a lot of those senate lunches on this podcast

00:31:28.980 where things got raw and bare knuckles. 0.83

00:31:32.280 And on foreign policy, look, Lindsay was an interventionist.

00:31:38.300 He was an aggressive interventionist in the style of John McCain.

00:31:41.580 He believed it.

00:31:42.240 It was honest, but he was very much an interventionist.

00:31:45.080 We've had lunches where Lindsay and Rand Paul would scream at each other.

00:31:49.520 And Lindsay, Rand is very much an isolationist.

00:31:52.280 Lindsay's an interventionist.

00:31:52.860 Isolationist interventionist.

00:31:53.540 And they couldn't be farther apart.

00:31:55.000 And by the way, I'm in the middle of both of them.

00:31:57.200 I agree with Lindsey about half the time and Rand about half the time.

00:32:01.640 I've also been in lunches where Lindsey and J.D. Vance would be screaming at each other.

00:32:07.120 J.D. is much more of an isolationist and disagreed with Lindsey like on Ukraine.

00:32:13.200 I mean, they would go at it where J.D. Vance wanted us to get the hell out of Ukraine yesterday.

00:32:19.680 Lindsey was passionate on the other side and they would slug it out.

00:32:22.480 You know, J.D. put out a very kind and gracious tweet today, actually telling that story, saying, look, you know, Lindsey has yelled at me, but I respected him and he was my friend.

00:32:31.660 And actually, I saw a clip today that I've never seen before.

00:32:35.940 So Blake Masters, Blake Masters ran for Senate in Arizona.

00:32:40.620 I like Blake.

00:32:41.520 I went and campaigned for him.

00:32:43.240 He didn't win.

00:32:44.100 I wish Blake had won, but he did not.

00:32:46.400 And, you know, Blake is is more on the isolation side of things.

00:32:50.820 He's more with with Rand and JD. And on Ukraine, he was a vocal opponent of the Ukraine conflict.

00:32:56.360 And it's interesting. Lindsay went to campaign for Blake and and they asked him, well, wait a second.

00:33:03.980 You guys disagree on Ukraine. I want you to listen to Lindsay's response as the he's there campaigning for a guy with whom he has sharp disagreements on foreign policy.

00:33:14.060 Give a listen. Remember my race. Remember Lindsey Graham dot com. Anybody watch Sean Hannity?

00:33:20.820 So I was on Sean Hannity three nights a week, Blake, saying they're going to shoot my dog tomorrow at midnight if you don't give me my dog.

00:33:31.800 I know you're living on cat food, but you can spare a few bucks here.

00:33:37.140 People responded.

00:33:39.060 My opponent raised $132 million against me, the most in the history of the Senate, Matt.

00:33:45.520 Why? Because of Kavanaugh.

00:33:47.040 They hated my guts.

00:33:48.040 they want to destroy the guy's life i sort of got in the way that's the way these people are

00:33:54.760 right there's nothing they won't do for power so the reason people responded to me is you don't

00:34:01.480 have to agree with me all the time but when there's a fight i will show up he shows up he's

00:34:06.760 not lying when he says that yeah and and look he would joke all the time like when he was running

00:34:11.880 for re-election the last time he would go on on hannity he'd go on fox news and he'd say lindsey

00:34:17.440 lindseygram.com lindseygram.com lindseygram.com and he was shameless i mean he was like hi my

00:34:22.040 name is lindseygram.com he would raise money and he'd say he'd say if you're a little old lady and

00:34:26.640 you're trying to feed your cat don't feed your cat tonight go and give me money instead and it

00:34:30.960 would people would crack up but they would do it but but so blake masters who lost that race he

00:34:37.060 tweeted out that video but here's what he said in his tweet which is interesting blake said quote

00:34:41.620 once when a donor asked senator graham why are you helping blake given how much you two disagree 0.99

00:34:50.120 on foreign policy he replied with a grin so blake's wrong about ukraine who gives a shit 0.98

00:34:58.660 we aren't here to talk about how correct i am all the time we're here to talk about getting 0.97

00:35:04.680 the Senate majority because I want to be chairman of my committees. And Blake continues, Lindsey

00:35:11.780 was cheerful and determined, and he understood that he played a team sport. May his memory be

00:35:18.000 eternal. That's pure Lindsey Graham. He could disagree with you, and Lord knows he and I did, 0.98

00:35:24.340 but it wasn't personally, wasn't angry with you. And that sort of joy, look, it is amazing the

00:35:32.640 number of times you look at his relationship with trump lindsey was a huge trump critic

00:35:37.440 yeah and and he ran against him said he was going to destroy the world uh but by the way you look

00:35:44.520 at me all right so in the presidential look lindsey ran against trump ran against me and in

00:35:48.880 the course of that campaign lindsey said you you know if if you killed ted on the senate floor

00:35:55.800 and the senate was the jury nobody could convict you i gotta admit that that was funny as hell i

00:36:03.300 like laughed i'm like all right that's a hell of a line now lindsey ended up not prevailing in that

00:36:09.640 race obviously he dropped out and after lindsey dropped out he endorsed my campaign so he came

00:36:14.720 and endorsed my campaign and he campaigned with me uh for president 2016 and and and lindsey said

00:36:20.560 at the time he and i were doing a fundraiser together and and i stood up and i said you know

00:36:25.140 i gotta say this is the first time in my life i've ever been endorsed by someone who's publicly

00:36:31.000 called for my murder and that was kind of how lindsey was he he had you know in the same time

00:36:40.380 you know he and trump would battle like crazy but trump just liked him and and and it was real and

00:36:46.320 lindsey liked trump lindsey saw the power look trump has a cast iron backbone he has courage

00:36:54.840 and and and lindsey saw the the historic value of of president trump's strength and it was really

00:37:04.340 important now all right i'll give you another story from from first term trump uh we were having

00:37:10.020 a dispute about funding the border wall and and the president wanted to sign and was going to sign

00:37:15.560 an emergency declaration and use the emergency powers of the president to shift funding to the

00:37:20.920 border wall. I came up with a different legal theory that would let him build the border wall,

00:37:25.940 let him build every penny of the border wall, a hundred percent, but not do it through an

00:37:30.640 emergency declaration. And my concern was, look, if you create the precedent for doing this,

00:37:36.020 the next Democrat president, the next, if we have a president, Bernie Sanders or President

00:37:40.800 Elizabeth Warren, they're going to declare an emergency on climate change. They're going to

00:37:44.400 declare an emergency on gun violence and use it to justify all sorts of bad policies. So I had a

00:37:49.540 second theory that would have done a hundred percent of the upside without the downside of

00:37:54.360 the bad precedent and i pitched it to lindsey and and lindsey was like yeah that makes sense

00:37:59.000 and so lindsey and i spent a day trying to call the president and and pitch this theory

00:38:05.300 and at the time the white house staff did not want lindsey and me to talk to the president so

00:38:11.000 they were blocking us they were preventing us from getting through to the president

00:38:13.980 the the oldest trick in in washington is that one right there and so we were sitting there it was

00:38:20.920 getting to be maybe 7 7 30 at night we were on the senate floor and we were both frustrated because

00:38:26.380 for 24 hours we've been calling the president we hadn't gotten through and i finally said to

00:38:31.740 lindsey screw it let's get in the car and drive over there he's like what and i'm like yeah let's

00:38:35.780 just go over there right now he's like all right let's go and then oddly enough a third senator

00:38:40.760 jumped in the car ben sass it was another friend but he was just kind of standing there and ben's

00:38:44.660 like oh i'll go and so the three of us drove over and we're literally we're not invited we're

00:38:50.620 uninvited we're just you're not on the list and by the way people need to understand there's two

00:38:53.880 gates you go through and if you're not on the list they look at you like you're an alien okay

00:38:58.860 so we're driving over and and and lindsey calls and actually gets trump on the phone as we're

00:39:04.400 driving over and he's like yeah we're coming over right now and trump was getting ready to have

00:39:10.360 dinner with Melania. And it was like their first like couple's dinner, a romantic dinner in like

00:39:16.480 a month. And Lindsay's like, no, we need to see you right now. And so we go up to the residence

00:39:22.400 and Trump is pissed. He is madder than a hornet because like his whole date night has been blown

00:39:29.580 up by us going over to the White House. And so we come over there and we're up in the residence

00:39:34.360 and Trump brings up a couple of lawyers from the White House counsel's office and they're smart

00:39:40.080 guys, but they were on the other side of this. And we begin arguing. And I got to say, look,

00:39:45.160 Lindsey could judge the prevailing winds really quickly. And he could see that Trump was not

00:39:50.340 buying what I was selling that particular night. So Lindsey very quickly abandons me. He just jumps

00:39:56.100 out and he goes and sits with Trump. And I'm arguing with this lawyer from the White House

00:40:01.240 Council. I mean, we are slugging it out. I mean, it was a bare knuckle fight. And Lindsey turns to

00:40:09.180 Trump and said, who do you think is winning? How they doing? And like Trump's kind of laughing

00:40:14.960 and they're almost like color commentators watching us have this legal argument. And then

00:40:20.460 in the middle of it, Trump calls one of the staff of the White House and says, bring us some of those 0.97

00:40:25.260 pigs in a blanket, those little hors d'oeuvres. So they bring a plate of pigs in the blanket. 0.90

00:40:30.800 And this goes on for like three hours. No. So you guys straight up Trump the date night.

00:40:37.020 Yeah, it blew up the date night. We ended up not being persuasive that night, although I will say Lindsey cut me loose so fast and he jumped. But he admitted afterwards, he's like, yeah, you weren't winning, so I wasn't going to be with that. He's like, I'll be behind you, way, way, way behind you.

00:40:54.680 Right behind you, yeah, around the corner.

00:40:56.760 But it was the sort of thing, that was very much Lindsey Graham,

00:41:02.520 and it's part of why Trump listened to him,

00:41:06.020 because he didn't win every argument,

00:41:08.080 but he was there to go again and to go again,

00:41:10.480 and it was really effective,

00:41:13.440 and I'll tell you where it mattered enormously.

00:41:16.140 There's no area Lindsey and I worked more closely on than Iran, 0.92

00:41:20.120 and standing up to the incredible danger to America if the Ayatollah ever gets a nuclear 0.96

00:41:28.560 weapon. I think it's an existential threat to America. I think if the Ayatollah who chants 0.96

00:41:33.320 death to America gets a nuclear weapon, I think the odds are unacceptably high that hundreds of

00:41:39.900 thousands or even millions of Americans would be murdered. And Lindsey agreed with that.

00:41:43.640 And he and I worked hand in hand over and over and over again, talking with President Trump every week, sometimes every day, saying you're exactly right to stand up to Iran.

00:41:56.760 the president has said repeatedly, Iran will never get a nuclear weapon. There will be zero 0.66

00:42:00.800 enrichment. And Lindsey was an incredible ally that I was fighting alongside. And the president

00:42:09.440 listened to us, which is part of why we've seen the president's incredible strong leadership 0.72

00:42:16.660 taking out Iran's military capacity and stopping them from getting nuclear weapons.

00:42:21.920 that that was one of the most important legacies lindsey ever had it's it's really incredible we're

00:42:27.720 going to do something really fun this week as well that first podcast that you did with your

00:42:32.320 first guest was lindsey graham we are going to put that out this week so look for that on the feed as

00:42:37.620 well senator i i'm so glad you got to talk about your friend i mean this so sincerely i'm so sorry

00:42:43.280 for your loss when you lose a friend i've lost too many you lose them especially sudden like this

00:42:48.460 It is gut-wrenching.

00:42:50.300 Hug your family.

00:42:51.680 Hug your friends.

00:42:52.640 Call your friends.

00:42:53.660 Check on your friends.

00:42:54.640 I say that often to people.

00:42:56.040 You just never know.

00:42:58.000 And I'm glad you got to spend so much quality time with him.

00:43:02.540 Well, he will be missed.

00:43:03.980 He left a legacy that was extraordinary.

00:43:08.980 And I will say, whether you agreed with him or disagreed with him,

00:43:14.640 Lindsey loved this country.

00:43:17.040 and and he devoted every waking moment of his life to fighting for this country that that was his

00:43:22.960 mission and i admired that i i admired that it was real it was genuine and and he made a profound

00:43:30.600 difference it is a good reminder lindsey was just 71 years old he was full of energy and vigor to

00:43:37.720 be honest if i were to pick one of my colleagues uh who was not going to be making not going to

00:43:42.900 make it, Lindsey would not have been on the list. He had the energy that he was unstoppable in

00:43:49.920 energy. And it's a good reminder to all of us that none of us are guaranteed to be here tomorrow.

00:43:54.920 So hug your family, hug your kids, and say thanks to God for the privilege of living in a time of

00:44:03.380 consequence and making a difference in our country. And I will say this, Lindsey Graham made an

00:44:08.900 enormous difference for our country amen to that as always thank you for listening to verdict with

00:44:14.820 senator ted cruz ben ferguson with you don't forget to download my podcast and you can listen

00:44:19.200 to my podcast every other day you're not listening to verdict or each day when you listen to verdict

00:44:22.820 afterwards i'd love to have you as a listener to again the ben ferguson podcast and we will see

00:44:28.060 you back here on monday morning why should you listen to armstrong and getty on demand we're not

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - July 18, 2026

Lindsey Graham's American Legacy of Loyalty, Laughter and Leadership

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