Western Standard - September 08, 2026


COVID vaccine injury inquiry puts compensation failures in spotlight


Episode Stats


Length

23 minutes

Words per minute

193.38

Word count

4,503

Sentence count

186


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 The reality is this is a non-partisan thing. The government admits it happened because they have
00:00:04.780 a vaccine injury support program and that program hasn't been working very well. As a matter of fact
00:00:10.040 I'd say it hasn't worked at all. I'm here with MP Dean Allison who's leading the Allison inquiry
00:00:24.960 on vaccine injuries in Canada. Dean, thank you for joining me today. Thanks sir. Thanks for coming by.
00:00:30.000 But Dean, just tell me a bit more about what exactly the Allison Inquiry is.
00:00:34.680 Yeah, so, you know, one of the things I've found over the last number of years,
00:00:37.860 the job as an MP is to listen and advocate on behalf of constituents for programs that are available.
00:00:44.380 You know, we help people with CPP.
00:00:46.280 We help people with immigration, all these other kinds of things.
00:00:49.160 One of the things I've noticed over the last couple of years is more and more people frequently
00:00:53.620 have been reaching out to me, reaching out to my office.
00:00:56.860 I've seen people in my travels across the country.
00:00:59.020 and they've been, you know, they've been frustrated, right?
00:01:01.980 I think they've been kind of, they feel like they've been dismissed.
00:01:05.440 They feel like they've sort of been left behind.
00:01:07.400 So what this sort of the genesis of this is that in talking to these people
00:01:11.980 and talking to my colleagues who also have vaccine-injured people
00:01:15.880 show up to their offices and write letters and make phone calls,
00:01:19.460 I thought, you know, I think it would be nice for people to hear their stories.
00:01:23.720 A couple of reasons.
00:01:24.560 The first one is that, you know, a couple of years ago, two, three years ago,
00:01:27.660 people didn't want to talk about this. They didn't want to talk about it. They felt
00:01:31.580 uncomfortable. They felt guilty. There's a whole myriad of reasons. And so my thought process was
00:01:39.180 is that now that times have changed a bit, I really feel that people need permission
00:01:44.520 to be able to tell the story. That's really what we're trying to get through. We want to give
00:01:48.540 people permission to share the stories. And it's interesting as we put stuff out on our feed,
00:01:53.060 I've had friends reach out to me and say, like, I think I may have been
00:01:57.560 injured, like people that I would never have a conversation with because it was
00:02:02.420 kind of taboo or it was awkward.
00:02:05.240 Uh, I think now what we're trying to facilitate is for an opportunity for
00:02:09.480 people to tell the story.
00:02:10.380 So I really think it could be healing, right?
00:02:12.260 You know, everyone, anyone and everyone who was injured, this is not,
00:02:15.740 doesn't go across party lines.
00:02:17.120 This is liberal concern.
00:02:18.540 It doesn't matter, eat green, whatever the reality is, this is a nonpartisan
00:02:22.640 thing the government admits it happened because they have a vaccine injury support program and
00:02:28.480 that program hasn't been working very well as a matter of fact i'd say it hasn't worked at all
00:02:33.200 but at the end of the day if people don't have an opportunity to share those stories
00:02:38.800 where do they go the vaccine support program i think the number that's floating around is 59 000
00:02:44.000 people that were injured by the vaccine the kobe 19 vaccine that is referring to
00:02:48.800 do you believe that number do you think it's higher lower what's your information on well
00:02:52.320 So that's the number that public health gives us, right?
00:02:54.920 Yes.
00:02:55.480 I guarantee it's way higher.
00:02:57.180 But for the sake of trying to do what we know,
00:03:00.380 we're going to deal with people that have been injured
00:03:02.960 or have indicated either through a doctor, et cetera, et cetera.
00:03:06.920 So the reality is that I think there's a lot more people that have been injured.
00:03:10.920 If you go with that 58,000, 59,000 people, then you knock it down.
00:03:14.800 11,000 very seriously injured.
00:03:17.720 There's been deaths, obviously, as well.
00:03:19.660 And then if you keep going down, you know, maybe 3,500 people originally, and this was based on a Globe and Mail investigation over five months last year that it published, was that there was about 3,500 people, and this is on government websites actually as well, that 3,500 people that actually had applied and they sort of got it down to 3,000 and only 252.
00:03:41.660 252. So think about that. Out of thousands and thousands and thousands injured that have actually been documented by public health, only 252 people have actually received any type of compensation.
00:03:54.380 Why do you think this issue is taboo and even to this day? I mean, I understand that there were questions on misinformation and disinformation.
00:04:01.340 This was a common point of discussion on vaccines, on other public health policies.
00:04:07.000 Obviously, the pandemic had waned down over time in terms of the seriousness of the response today.
00:04:13.300 Pretty sure we're living without most of the restrictions that were applied during the pandemic.
00:04:18.200 Why do you believe there's a taboo?
00:04:19.740 And is there still really a taboo today?
00:04:21.760 Because you are taking this inquiry further.
00:04:23.640 And I don't think you've had all too much backlash from colleagues or of the opposite side of the floor who may have given you backlash years ago.
00:04:30.940 Yeah, no, I think there's a couple of things. I think it's an overall government agenda around censorship. You see the kind of bills that have come out just in the last five years, just since COVID, really. There's been at least a half a dozen bills, whether it's online, arms, whether it's, you know, information sharing. You know, you can't share the news on Facebook. Well, think about that. How do people get their news?
00:04:52.320 Well, that is Facebook's call.
00:04:55.480 Based on the policies of the government.
00:04:58.480 For compensation, obviously, which Google has bought into.
00:05:01.640 Other businesses can have different models as well.
00:05:04.540 But it is Meadows' call at the end of the day.
00:05:06.620 It is, but once again, it's when you create the circumstances, right?
00:05:10.300 So government does create the circumstances, I believe, for free speech in society.
00:05:15.160 So when there's a chilling effect, and we can argue all that stuff,
00:05:18.860 the reality is that legislation has been more and more censorship related so that's the backdrop as
00:05:25.000 far as that goes i think the other thing too is that you know people were uh discouraged in the
00:05:29.200 day and you just for the reasons you said you know you're not telling the truth you're it's in
00:05:33.280 your head you're a conspiracy whatever you want to say well people didn't feel comfortable doing
00:05:37.920 so it just made it uncomfortable and i think that now the time has gone on people have had a chance
00:05:43.060 to reflect and people have had a chance to and now they're saying like i i really would kind of like
00:05:47.680 to tell my story. It's not like people stopped calling my office. And so that's why I think
00:05:53.940 there's a buy-in. I mean, there can't be one member of parliament. There can't be one that
00:05:58.660 has not had someone call their office and say, I've been injured. As a matter of fact, I would
00:06:03.440 venture to say there's probably not one member of parliament that could say, I actually don't
00:06:07.480 know somebody. It doesn't have to be someone close. It could be a friend. It could be a family
00:06:11.880 member, et cetera. So I think when you start, when you put it in that context, now we've got some
00:06:16.820 historical context. And remember, at the time, we didn't know what we were dealing with. There's a
00:06:21.560 pandemic. This vaccine came out pretty quick, and they're doing the best they could. Everyone's
00:06:26.540 trying to figure this stuff out. So they were really concerned about trust in public health,
00:06:31.040 right? Well, I'm more concerned about trust in institutions, right? If you can't
00:06:36.340 speak freely, then that's a bigger challenge I think we have in this country going forward.
00:06:41.440 So taking us back to the earlier phase of the pandemic, obviously, when COVID came to Canada's shores, it quickly spread and spread across our aging population, targeting many people who, you know, were already ill or who were very much vulnerable to COVID.
00:06:58.140 and who unfortunately thousands, tens of thousands of Canadians died and it was very quick actually.
00:07:03.660 So looking back, do you think the vaccine, be it the two shot, one shot, all the different vaccines
00:07:11.180 that were approved by Health Canada essentially in the first couple years of the pandemic,
00:07:15.580 did those save lives in your view? I think that everyone responded differently, right?
00:07:20.780 There's no question that that definitely helps some people. What I'm focused on really is just
00:07:25.260 hearing people's stories of those that were injured like at the end of the day uh you know
00:07:29.980 you talk about comorbidities right people that are already sick and vulnerable right at the end of the
00:07:34.620 day um we would need a different type of inquiry and that's not this kind of inquiry this one is
00:07:39.580 really just one to hear people's stories uh you know what happened and two understand whether
00:07:45.100 people have had access and if you think of you know the hundreds of people that are going to
00:07:49.260 apply to show up there's probably a good chance that there's many of them that have not been
00:07:53.340 improved for this injury program. As I mentioned at the press conference, over, you know, I think
00:07:58.700 it was around $55 million or $54 million committed. Over two-thirds of that, $34 million was spent on
00:08:04.760 overhead through a third party. The government's still trying to figure out what they're going to
00:08:08.700 roll out. But, you know, my job as a member of parliament, one, is to listen, and two, help
00:08:13.000 my constituents access programs. And that's what I'll continue. And quite frankly, that's what
00:08:18.800 every MP's job is to do up here in Ottawa.
00:08:22.640 But my question is more on the side of, you have this inquiry,
00:08:26.320 you're going to hear voices that are going to be critical of the vaccine overall,
00:08:30.100 point blank, based on their experience, of course.
00:08:32.420 I can understand that, given injuries that may have occurred to themselves
00:08:38.280 or to people who are close to the individuals that submit their comments and stories to you.
00:08:43.620 But as a project, the Allison Inquiry, is this going to be an opportunity to put everything all about the COVID vaccine to the question?
00:08:52.020 Or is this simply just focusing on the injured population with a bit more of a targeted message and a targeted platform specifically for those that actually have been injured and want the responsible compensation or response from government?
00:09:07.860 Oh, yeah, great question. We don't have the resources or the time, because quite frankly,
00:09:14.060 you know, there's some 30 countries around the world that are doing government, either through
00:09:19.060 their committees or through special committees around this whole thing, you know, where they're
00:09:23.780 bringing scientific research and evidence. We don't have time for that, so we're very focused.
00:09:28.640 Our focus is strictly on hearing people's stories and hearing, are they able to access and, you know,
00:09:34.620 can they access etc etc you know it should that be a job for another day quite possibly but we
00:09:40.780 certainly don't have the resources and it's not going to be our focus at this point in time but
00:09:45.580 it probably should be looked at at some point in time 30 other countries a lot of the g7
00:09:49.420 a lot of our other you know oecd countries a lot of the commonwealth are looking at these
00:09:54.300 kinds of things so boy it would be a great job if somewhere down the road uh you know a government
00:09:59.340 could look at that for sure going back and i'm not going to get into the reasoning since it is a
00:10:03.500 personal matter and of course you've made that clear to my colleagues and other platforms in
00:10:08.140 the media, but you're among the handful of MPs who did not get vaccinated back in COVID.
00:10:12.780 Did you feel the pressure as an MP by your own party or by your colleagues across the aisle as
00:10:17.340 well to get vaccinated during the pandemic? Well, I think there's always pressure everywhere you go,
00:10:22.620 right? At the end of the day, there's some people that weren't allowed into, you know, parliament,
00:10:27.820 But what I heard stories on, for the most part, was that I would have people calling me crying because they were in the fourth year of a nursing program, or they were in school, or they couldn't travel, they couldn't see a loved one.
00:10:41.240 So I think that this story really affected a lot of people differently.
00:10:45.260 When I started the press conference, I said, man, this affected so many people for different reasons.
00:10:51.320 Mental health, right?
00:10:52.060 We could do a whole inquiry on mental health that came out of this.
00:10:56.040 And so it said, because of so many different areas to look at, we figured we were on safe ground talking to people about the issues that matter to them, which is their injuries and their access to the programs.
00:11:10.300 These are things that are unrefutable.
00:11:12.820 If you look at it at the end of the day, the government can't say, well, this is not true.
00:11:17.620 Well, it is true because they set up a program, right?
00:11:20.520 The Vaccine Injured Support Program.
00:11:22.060 So while there's all kinds of other options, I can assure you, I heard hundreds of stories from people for a variety of reasons.
00:11:28.920 I couldn't travel to see this.
00:11:30.420 I couldn't go across the border to see ABC.
00:11:33.380 I missed kids' practices.
00:11:35.780 I couldn't go to sports.
00:11:37.000 The list was endless.
00:11:38.240 And I mentioned a few of them during the press conference, but we really feel that we should focus.
00:11:43.760 And what I felt for a long time is because I was hearing these stories in my office,
00:11:48.400 I think it's time that we let people tell these stories publicly.
00:11:52.060 and give them permission to share their stories.
00:11:54.980 Let's talk about what you've heard.
00:11:56.600 You said you've talked to hundreds of people,
00:11:58.640 or you've heard from hundreds of people yourself?
00:12:00.480 Yeah, over the years, absolutely.
00:12:02.020 Okay, and in this inquiry, have you received how many,
00:12:05.160 do you know how many submissions so far?
00:12:06.840 I mean, it's been open for a few days now.
00:12:08.540 Yeah, it's only been open since last Thursday,
00:12:11.300 so maybe, what, four days, four or five days?
00:12:13.200 So I haven't got the latest stats,
00:12:16.160 but the kind of interest that I see on my social media
00:12:20.640 is any indication? My guess is that we could potentially get thousands. You know, I mean,
00:12:25.580 I think there's been hundreds already of people that have reached out. We've got all kinds of
00:12:30.160 emails just asking about it. We get phone calls to our constituency office. We're not set up for
00:12:35.800 that. That's why I'm working with Sean and Teresa, because quite frankly, it's a huge undertaking
00:12:40.700 with lots of volunteers to make something like this happen. So yeah, the reality is that there's
00:12:46.820 been an overwhelming response for people wanting to participate wanting to
00:12:53.360 share their stories and we're gonna have to find a way where we can we can share
00:12:57.140 up as many of those stories as we can just dividing two things vaccine has
00:13:02.140 the hesitancy from constituents and vaccine injuries during the phase of the
00:13:08.600 initial lot of the vaccine what were some of the common things that you heard
00:13:14.180 or that even surprised you in terms of the people that had the most hesitancy about getting
00:13:20.340 vaccinated you're one of those people yourself you had a few colleagues in the house and of course
00:13:25.140 you represent constituents some of whom may have hesitated or decided not to get vaccinated can
00:13:30.580 you just tell me a little bit more about the stories that you heard and any demographic trends
00:13:35.540 or anything else that you see that paints a picture for what kind of canadians are
00:13:40.340 most concerned about, first of all, personal health freedom on whether or
00:13:44.900 not they take the vaccine and trust in the product itself. I'll give you two
00:13:50.060 examples. There's lots more, we'll just keep it at two. I think the first one is
00:13:54.020 around choice, right? Personal choice. Medical choice is always, it goes back to
00:13:58.880 freedom of speech, right? Are we allowed to say what we want under free and
00:14:03.060 democratic society? The second one was, and it certainly is more rare, but there
00:14:09.500 people that were actually allergic to vaccines and had proven it through previous times from
00:14:16.380 doctor's notes and stuff. And I found it interesting that even though these people were very hesitant
00:14:23.020 because of previous experiences with vaccines and documented from doctors, they were still
00:14:29.420 a tremendous amount of peer pressure was applied to them as well. So if you think about that,
00:14:34.700 if you're really concerned about the individual, like you say you are, then once again,
00:14:39.420 And you should pretty much probably offer people a choice.
00:14:43.420 But you also should listen to people and they say,
00:14:46.080 I've had allergic reactions in the past and I am worried now as we move forward, right?
00:14:54.320 Did the overall number, I mean, again, we cited that 58,000 figure.
00:14:58.340 You believe it's much higher.
00:15:00.300 Does that number, that figure, surprise you at all?
00:15:04.920 The amount of people who are injured by the vaccine?
00:15:08.780 No, it doesn't really surprise me.
00:15:10.240 And the reason it doesn't, it was how fast it was moved out.
00:15:15.280 I mean, like every drug that's tested over time, at the end of the day,
00:15:20.380 what happens is there's a process that they go through.
00:15:23.900 So, you know, at the time, absolutely I wouldn't know because we didn't know anything.
00:15:29.520 History has given us an opportunity to be able to reflect a little bit more on that.
00:15:33.660 And is that why you feel like this is the right time for this?
00:15:36.480 Yeah.
00:15:36.660 I'm more curious about your timing, Dean, is, you know, we're a couple of years out of pretty much most and all of the major pandemic-related restrictions.
00:15:45.740 Getting vaccinated today isn't exactly going to be, you know, pinnacle to people having access to most jobs like it was before.
00:15:52.700 You know, some lawsuits and some other legal processes have concluded by now, and many of the, like Air Canada and many of the cases have compensated, compensating employees.
00:16:01.560 I heard from airline pilots, too, from Air Canada.
00:16:03.860 But like I said, I heard from so many people.
00:16:05.980 It's a good reminder.
00:16:07.260 Yeah, but that's a competition factor.
00:16:09.800 And obviously, those processes take time.
00:16:12.900 But just fast forward into today, Dean.
00:16:15.080 You think this is the right time for this, especially because I'm looking at the political context.
00:16:20.080 Obviously, the last election didn't go the way that you and your party wanted it to go.
00:16:23.820 You were trying to fight a battle.
00:16:25.960 And of course, a lot of the talks, I talked to Aaron O'Toole a lot recently.
00:16:30.420 I talked to Christophe Mont, I talked to former Conservatives that are still conservative and who are not, obviously, as well, and made the decision to cross the floor.
00:16:39.100 And looking at Pierre's leadership in the state of the party, I know you have the blessing of Pierre, but do you feel like there's a risk, politically speaking, engaging in this kind of thing right now, given the sensitivity of trying to win over more of the Canadian public on your side?
00:16:54.300 Yeah. So I think it's the right thing to do, first of all. And there's a political risk in everything you do in politics, as you know, as you've been up here. But I've been thinking about this for a number of years. So this is not something I just sort of woke up one day and said, hey. So I think it's the right thing to do, first of all. I've had people continue to reach out to me, even though it's not bantied about in the media. And I think that, you know, at the end of the day, when is the right time? There's no real right time.
00:17:23.000 You know, one of the things that I appreciate about Pierre is that
00:17:25.780 if you've been to any of his events, he's a guy that actually listens to people.
00:17:31.800 You know, anytime I go to an event, he's got to line up for an hour
00:17:34.220 or an hour and a half, and he listens and he talks to people.
00:17:37.460 And I think if you were to ask him, he would say the same thing.
00:17:39.520 Like, he probably does not go, like, you know, one or two weeks
00:17:44.320 where he doesn't hear from somebody indicating and telling their story.
00:17:48.020 So, you know, I wish we could have done this before.
00:17:51.060 And the reality was that, you know, we haven't had a government that's interested in doing that.
00:17:57.140 So what happens if we're not going to be in government and I can't lobby our team to do something as a government inquiry, then let's talk to people.
00:18:07.180 And once again, we're talking and hearing people's stories and we're also looking and trying to help them get access to programs.
00:18:14.780 These are things that MPs do every single day in their writings.
00:18:19.420 All we're doing is giving people permission to tell their stories publicly.
00:18:24.340 Last question for you, Dean.
00:18:27.800 Imagine that you were, you crossed the floor in 2021.
00:18:33.520 Imagine that you had, or at least you had an opportunity.
00:18:36.400 Is this like a nightmare?
00:18:37.360 Am I waking up like in a cold sweat that I've crossed the floor?
00:18:40.940 If you've just ended up on the government benches and, you know, today's Tuesday,
00:18:45.080 tomorrow was Wednesday, Wednesday's a caucus meeting,
00:18:47.540 and you were in the government caucus meeting for whatever reason,
00:18:51.200 maybe you're still a conservative MP,
00:18:52.860 but you have the platform to speak to the members of the Liberal Party
00:18:56.600 who formed government during the entire span of the pandemic, frankly.
00:19:01.360 What would be the number one thing that you would advocate for
00:19:04.400 in terms of changing their policies on the response to the pandemic?
00:19:09.300 What's the one thing that you really think that they got wrong?
00:19:13.340 Well, I think at the end of the day, the freedom piece,
00:19:15.980 you know, shutting down people's ability to travel, shutting down people's ability to
00:19:20.980 go into restaurants. Lockdowns were horrific. They were terrible then. And I believe they're
00:19:27.340 terrible now. And I think they affected people in a very, very dramatic way. I've talked to people
00:19:32.800 lost their business as a result of it. I've talked to people that, you know, didn't get a chance to
00:19:37.320 have anybody, you know, at a funeral, like six people, whatever the case, did not get a chance
00:19:42.620 to say goodbye to loved ones.
00:19:44.500 So those are the decisions that were made at that time
00:19:47.020 based on the information they had.
00:19:49.240 So then my question is, once you have committed to that,
00:19:52.760 why would you not review what you did?
00:19:55.380 So my question would be,
00:19:57.180 anytime you make decisions as a government,
00:20:00.240 are you beyond reproach?
00:20:03.280 That you do not need to sit back, take stock,
00:20:07.940 and make sure that what you did was the right thing?
00:20:11.080 So what I would do is I would say any time the major decision like that that affects people's liberties
00:20:18.160 Affects people's lives in a very significant way
00:20:20.640 Is why would you not spend time to listen to them number one and then reflect as to whether that was actually the right thing to do?
00:20:27.340 My question obviously we have the benefit of hindsight today Dean, but that's that's why you can do that after the fact
00:20:33.080 Sure, but in terms of on the at the time like okay
00:20:36.840 perhaps you can show those were in government at the time,
00:20:38.880 Aronald 2-1, and now you're
00:20:40.620 sitting on the government benches.
00:20:42.720 What would you have
00:20:44.780 like one thing that you would absolutely
00:20:46.800 no doubt have done differently
00:20:48.640 given just your political
00:20:50.700 or personal inclinations? Because
00:20:52.600 obviously the information we had now
00:20:54.520 that we didn't have before, so
00:20:56.700 you know, a lot of people can make up
00:20:58.300 the prospects of
00:21:00.900 doing things entirely different.
00:21:02.860 There's a lot of pressure from public health institutions,
00:21:05.060 from the population to take everything about covid seriously it scared a lot of people off
00:21:10.340 you know businesses had effects because frankly the marketplace had effects from the population
00:21:15.780 itself not just the health restrictions but also people wanting to you know stay in stay safe uh
00:21:20.740 you know so there's a lot more just more than just the government responses there was all society
00:21:25.540 level of that as well and there was a period of time that i'm sure you know where uh you know
00:21:29.940 you know, Canadians were, you know, number one concern was safety in terms of not getting the
00:21:35.580 virus or not getting their loved ones, especially those who are vulnerable, infected by COVID. So
00:21:40.520 kind of what would it be like something that would be impossible for you to set behind
00:21:45.180 if you had any role making up? You know, I spoke out against lockdowns and I think one of the
00:21:50.520 things that would still concern me was the isolation that people felt. People struggled.
00:21:56.940 I talked to a lady on the street here
00:21:59.680 and she told me her story of how she had two boys
00:22:04.220 that had struggled with addictions
00:22:05.980 and their jobs were not deemed essential
00:22:08.500 and so they didn't get to work.
00:22:10.500 And in the course of six months,
00:22:13.500 she lost both of her boys
00:22:14.820 who had struggled with addictions over the years,
00:22:18.820 lost both of her boys to overdoses.
00:22:22.780 So quite frankly, the human costs that we had
00:22:25.400 from isolation right i don't want i don't know what that looks like it's very hard to go back
00:22:29.720 and say hey what would you do differently what i'm saying what is what you should do based on
00:22:33.880 what what happened though is analyze what you did and was it determine whether it was the right thing
00:22:39.160 or whether you could have made made changes or whether you could have done it better we've seen
00:22:43.480 none of that we've seen a lot of it from you know 30 plus countries around the world but we've seen
00:22:48.280 none of that here we don't have the resources to do that but what i can do once again as a member
00:22:54.280 of parliament is listen to people's stories and fight for programs that are important to them.
00:22:59.160 And that's exactly what I'm going to do. I know that's what my colleagues are going to do and I
00:23:03.320 hope that every MP would be doing that because that's what we're here to do is to go
00:23:09.160 and work on behalf of our constituents. Dean, thank you for your time to speak
00:23:13.160 to the Western Centre today. Thank you as well.