Investigative journalist Sam Cooper on his years of work with the foreign interference issue
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Summary
A ruling from a Quebec judge seals the records of two Chinese-Canadian witnesses who claim to have evidence of Beijing s alleged involvement in Canadian politics. What does this mean for the ongoing Hogue inquiry into China s influence in Canada's political system? And what does it say about China's intentions with the Hogue Commission?
Transcript
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This breaking story indicates that Commissioner Mary Jose Oge of the Hogue Commission into Foreign
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Interference just released a ruling today, weeks after the phase of hearing from witnesses has
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closed, a pretty stunning ruling. She says that she's granting a complete anonymity to two secret
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protected witnesses because they have either life safety threats or threats of serious
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repercussions to their lives in Canada. Her ruling says that they have direct evidence
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regarding how Beijing's United Front foreign influence arm allegedly targets Chinese-Canadian
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political candidates and community groups. So Corey, as you know, this has been the thrust of
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my reporting that drove the Hogue inquiry that China uses, nefarious networks inside Canada that
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threatened Canadians and attempt to leverage politicians. So really it just, it adds concrete
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evidence that this judge from Quebec is saying she's so concerned with the credible safety threats
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that she's going to seal records from these two secret witnesses for 99 years.
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Really? That's sealing the records of their identity, but she still wants to hear the testimony, right?
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She wants to hear their testimony in affidavit form. And I believe there could be in-camera or secret
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interviews, but done in such a way that the public will receive very sanitized, anonymized summaries.
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And so for your viewers and listeners that are wondering, could direct witnesses such as these that
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have evidence of what politicians may have been colluding with Beijing, will they be named? I don't think
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they'll be named in these documents, but at least it looks to me positive that the commission wants
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to hear from people with serious evidence and serious safety concerns that need to be protected.
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Okay. So we probably won't be seeing any specific bombshells getting that tight, but as you said,
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it's a good trend that they even want to have this in here and they're putting the protections up for
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these witnesses to come forward. So it is a good indication they're taking this inquiry seriously.
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This has always been my view that they've got to some good evidence and I believe
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that they only have the tip of the iceberg, of course, evident to the public. They're holding
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back so much information. Justin Trudeau and his cabinet have held back documents that they claim
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are not pointing to nefarious activities. So why are they holding them back? And so I do believe this
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commission has been valuable. It's proven that something very deeply nefarious is happening.
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And yet I still think it's minimizing of what the public knows in a big way.
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So some information we're getting, though, I guess you could say is coming from the
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China itself with yesterday, what you broke with Beijing endorsed 41 of the races or candidates in
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them in the 2019 election. I mean, the evidence just keeps mounting about how heavily invested they
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were in that election. And, you know, they're not hiding it even, it seems.
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Absolutely, Corey. To briefly explain the power of this document, I, as you know, I have community
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sources from Asia throughout Canada that are so deeply concerned, much like these witnesses that
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will be protected by Hogue with how they are threatening Canada and how the penetration of the CCP into
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Canada's democracy is far beyond what most people understand. So these sources provided to me a Chinese
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Communist Party record from an entity that is specifically tasked to influence ethnic Chinese
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people wherever they live in the world, to surveil them, to mobilize them when China needs them.
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And this document explains how Beijing was very satisfied that 41 candidates that it viewed,
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according to expert Charles Burton, it viewed as potentially useful, were nominated in the 2019
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contest. And it described very succinctly how China was pleased with those results, but wanted to see
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improvements, you know, more leveraging of these community associations into our politics,
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and a nugget from this Chinese Communist Party document that I know your viewers will find
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important is it says, Little Trudeau, or the translation is Trudeau Jr., specifically went into
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the heart of a Toronto area writings that Beijing views as important to themselves because they feel they
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would like to control the Chinese populations there. Trudeau went there seeking votes days before the
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2019 election. So this piece of evidence, I believe, suggests that it tells us why Justin Trudeau was
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standing in the way of evidence coming out in the inquiry. The document indicates that Trudeau wanted to get
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votes, and that Beijing knows he wants those votes. Furthermore, it says that Mr. Trudeau appointing the
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candidate from the area he visited, Minister Merying, was seen as very, you know, very notable by the Chinese
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Communist Party. But the key figure here is 41 candidates endorsed. It was just incredibly sophisticated,
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the analysis pointing to how that was better than the past few elections. But China wants to cultivate
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and control, unfortunately, more political talent within the diaspora.