00:01:45.620But what about also, I'm wondering what you think about what Alberta should do?
00:01:50.420Well, I think now is our time to focus in on what we all agree upon, and that is, is that we need change. I spoke to Keith Wilson, we met the other day in person, and he said that he said something that kind of stuck with me, he said, we may not agree on a lot of things, but he said, what we agree upon is change, there's a need for change.
00:02:11.200So that's what we need to focus in on, and that to me is making Alberta's desire to change the Constitution, to have a new Constitution is what we propose, but we need to structurally change the country, and that's the next step.
00:02:26.820Okay, but really, I mean, regardless of what happens as a referendum result, how is it different now? How has that conversation about constitutional change been changed in and of itself?
00:02:37.900Well, just the entire country now knows that we are unhappy with the existing circumstances.
00:02:44.780And it's been an interesting process because, you know, in early September, you know, I think there was kind of a mounting backlash about why did we go through this?
00:02:55.080But as, you know, the referendum approaches, we are getting so much national coverage.
00:03:00.060There is an awareness of why we've done this right across the country.
00:03:04.320I think that that backlash is actually diminishing.
00:03:07.900And so people are starting to understand, people in Alberta are starting to understand this is why the Premier took us down this road, why she allowed it to happen.
00:03:18.140Okay. And so where do we go from here?
00:03:21.220Well, the big thing is the next step is really in the hands of Alberta activists, the people that have got us here.
00:03:28.780you know if they change gears and say yes this was a victory and now let's go on to the next step
00:03:36.420it's about them getting engaged and bringing forward proposals and we hope that some of the
00:03:42.940things that we've said in this podcast can make a difference and improve the conversation but if
00:03:48.680they can get engaged get involved put you know understand the aspirations and and interest of
00:03:56.980other stakeholders, then we can actually make some real change. So the next step is really up to the
00:04:02.500activists to get behind, get their shoulders behind the wheel of change. And to understand
00:04:08.600that, you know, Albertans generally, they're going to render their opinion here. And if the
00:04:15.700vote turns out to be that we don't want to continue the separation conversation, it's not because we
00:04:21.960don't want to continue the conversation about change yeah i can see that that would be really
00:04:27.660important how do we what's the key to doing that well i think you know from what we've all gone
00:04:33.580through i think it's about focusing in on our you know what we share in canada and that what we
00:04:42.460identified is you know that principle-based society that we operate by principles rather
00:04:48.060than by rule of law and we're the best in the world at it and then the other piece of it is that
00:04:54.140we invented participatory democracy here in the you know in modern modern democracies we've invented
00:05:01.100it as peter mcleod talked about we we're exploring sporting it across the world now and so leaning
00:05:08.060into those two things the principle-based participatory democracy and if we can focus
00:05:13.980on those things, that's our strength. That's actually what unifies all of Canadians. So get
00:05:20.140rid of all the peripheral stuff, the colonialism that we've seen, set that aside because it's going
00:05:25.640to change now. And so what do we focus in on? Focus in on what we have in common, what we've
00:05:31.520identified here that we have in common, and that is a principle-based participatory democracy.
00:05:37.960okay and i i mean there's sort of a looming question i have though about ultimately
00:05:45.000behind what you're talking about is is the need to manage power right like the i mean as much as
00:05:54.700it's nice to have participatory democracy from the people up these people invested interests
00:05:59.740in powers and so how do we organize the division of power in canada to support the vision that you
00:06:06.820have that we're a nation of people well we put words to what the activists have done and that's
00:06:15.380that's all we can do is we can just add words to it what they have shown is that the people are in
00:06:20.980charge what we have talked about is we've given the words of principle as a principle-based
00:06:28.340participant or participant democracy but we've also said that we need a structure that clearly
00:06:34.420puts the sovereignty in the hands of the people and then and you can look at some of the past
00:06:40.580episodes to get into those details but then we say once the people have the sovereignty
00:06:46.020they in turn empower the governments the bureaucracy and the judiciary and they control
00:06:51.780them and they do that in between elections through what we call guilds and and this idea
00:06:57.220of participatory democracy so that's number one number two is that then the people can look at
00:07:04.420The vested interests and the general objectives in three major provinces.
00:07:15.520Quebec wants sovereignty, Alberta wants equality, and Ontario wants continuity.
00:07:22.140So what we do is we put the sovereignty at the provincial level,
00:07:25.560so everybody gets an equal amount of sovereignty.
00:07:28.300And then where we have provinces that don't have access to the coast,
00:07:33.740or we need economies of scale, and then we form autonomous regions.
00:07:38.420So in Western Canada, we would call that the Pacific Prairie Autonomous Region.
00:07:44.660That includes the north. It's 14 million people.
00:07:50.660Quebec is an autonomous region, and Atlantic Canada is an autonomous region.
00:07:54.660So that's how, you know, it's pretty simple.
00:07:57.420It's just like, okay, we have to disseminate the power out of Ottawa into the provinces and into the regions, and then Ottawa can get on with doing what really should do is international affairs and expanding our vision of principle-based participatory democracy, finding friends that will go along with that, and that's the Commonwealth idea.
00:08:22.060Okay, so we've gone from sort of the idea or the vision of people having the power and the authority ultimately. And now you're talking about the structure, right? And so now my next question is, how do we get from the structure we have today to the structure that you're describing?
00:08:45.440So this is what I'm actually really bullish about.
00:08:49.600This is why I think the future is absolutely bright.
00:08:53.500The first thing is that, you know, there's an election in British Columbia.
00:08:58.020There is a high probability that there's going to be a conservative government.
00:09:08.500And so suddenly you've got Alberta and Saskatchewan that both have, you know, conservative governments.
00:09:15.440And the Conservative government is going to have to address the key issues that we've identified here,
00:09:22.500which are the land issues and the relationship with the Indigenous.
00:09:25.760If Alberta can show the way to solve those problems, as we've talked about with a new national treaty,
00:09:31.560and then show that to British Columbia, suddenly, and then Saskatchewan will join in into that conversation.
00:09:41.180So you've got three Western provinces.
00:09:43.120the ones that are they have provinces these are the ones that pay for for confederation
00:09:47.000if we work together to say no we need to we need to enrich our economy we need to have prosperity
00:09:55.640we need to bring power down to the people these are all aspirations we share in western canada
00:10:01.700and we can say that to the eastern canada to eastern canada what i'm also bullish about is
00:10:07.940in the Quebec election, the big winner was actually the Conservative Party. And if you
00:10:16.380look at the nationalist vote, which is Liberal and Conservative, they actually have the same
00:10:23.300number of seats as the Péquiste, which will be the government. So the up-and-coming entity
00:10:28.320in Quebec is either the Conservatives or some combination of Liberal and Conservatives,
00:10:33.560which they've done in the past so that tells me that even quebec is saying no we want to we want
00:10:40.200to secure borders we want to secure our autonomy from an increasingly aggressive united states
00:10:47.800and we want to make money and have a happy lives for ourselves so i think this is all going in the
00:10:54.760right direction and then atlantic canada um we just need to push them they are ready to start
00:11:00.760making change they're ready to get you know roll up their sleeves and get to work so i'm i'm actually
00:11:07.000really bullish on canada okay and you did you you did do some gaming on all of this right yes okay
00:11:14.600and and how did that work out what did you see there well um what we saw was that uh there was
00:11:21.800two uh two eventual events that might occur one was a bash backlash by the moderates and the
00:11:30.040The other one was that the activists or the independence movement would either go out and try to start a new party or try to take over the UCP.
00:11:41.000And either of those things, if they happen in any size, if they have any degree of success, the subsequent result will be an NDP government.
00:11:53.120Because remember, we talked about the three hills that had to be climbed.
00:11:58.180and so the independence movement had to conquer
00:15:20.280In fact, we showed those numbers that I think it's 57% of Albertans
00:15:26.040think that if an independent Alberta would actually have military interference
00:15:31.100from the United States, they would take us over using military means.
00:15:35.78075% said that they will take us over by economic means.
00:15:40.220So if you consider that, if you're a judge and you hear that the bulk of the population thinks that an independent Alberta is going to end up as an American either protectorate or state or Venezuela, Cuba, Puerto Rico, one of those things, and there's a duty to protect the treaties, they're not going to make a quick decision on this.
00:16:04.420They're going to go through the process, and so even if Alberta were to ask for a quick resolution, there's no way the judges will do it.
00:16:13.780And I've talked to my sort of legal group in the background, which includes some high-end lawyers that deal with Constitution stuff all the time,
00:16:23.180and a couple of Supreme Court judges, actually, and another judge that is a high level in Alberta.
00:16:29.600So they have confirmed that there is no way that there will be a binding referendum between now and the election.
00:16:37.820So we stand 100% behind that sequence of events.
00:16:44.740But, I mean, barring the knowledge, the general knowledge of what you're describing, it seems that the independence movement, I mean, certainly in the polls, have actually lost a little bit of ground over the last few months.
00:16:58.560do you have any sense about what that is about is that just some polls or
00:17:03.000no i don't think it's some polls i think i think there's actual um you know the the sequence of
00:17:10.440events and the flow of the discussion uh has led to that i think it's i think it's legitimate
00:17:16.240and um as and it's the discussion has helped people think it through and i think there's
00:17:23.180sort of three things that have been a draw on the independence movement, and there's one thing that
00:17:28.820is going to help them in this vote. The three things is that they really haven't addressed
00:17:34.620the land issue, and getting the land to form this independent nation of Alberta is critical. That's
00:17:42.940the first step, and if you can't get past that, you don't get anywhere. In their 280-page document
00:17:49.000that talks about, this is the independence movement's document
00:19:22.700Well, the other side might not want to be friends as much as we want to.0.88
00:19:27.220And so they kind of throw out Kazakhstan, sorry, I'll say that word right, and say, well, look, Kazakhstan works well.0.51
00:19:36.560Well, if you actually, you know, please do a, what is it called, do a search on it using AI, and it'll show you that actually Kazakhstan actually pays the price for being landlocked.
00:19:53.380And that price is that they get a discount on their resources, and they get stuck just being a resource-based industry.
00:20:01.520And so the question is, if we're sending $25 billion per year, sort of net after some solvable problems, what is the break-even point of how much do we have to lose on that, on our transit out of a landlocked province?
00:20:20.780uh what's the break-even point and i actually did the calculation and the break-even point
00:20:26.300is exactly the same thing that was the low ebb of the discount that we had on our oil and gas
00:20:34.340selling to the americans so it's 13 a barrel and so at 13 a barrel and one dollar a bcf or whatever
00:20:41.760that term is for natural gas um if we lose that that that wipes that equals the amount that we're
00:20:49.180sending to ottawa so they didn't address that issue and then the final the big issue is that
00:20:56.380the independence movement appears that you know by survey about half of that independence movement
00:21:03.700is happy if we end up being an american state or some kind of relation but so they're not afraid
00:21:08.920of the united states and they don't haven't addressed that the rest of the population
00:21:13.860has noticed that the united states has changed knows that you can't rely on them anymore
00:21:18.640knows that they won't stick with any agreement that they sign.
00:21:23.080And the independence movement hasn't addressed that.
00:25:01.020So the first and most obvious thing, bar none, is that if you are an NDP supporter, and particularly if you're a big supporter, and this is more important than anything else, a big supporter of the public sector unions, the most logical thing is to vote for option two.
00:25:22.420And the reason for that is because that will create the backlash, it'll empower the independence movement, and it'll put the UCP on their back heels.
00:25:32.840So if you want an NDP government and you want a public sector to grow stronger, that's the most logical move.
00:25:42.620Now, thankfully, I think most people are not built that way.
00:25:46.540So I don't think that people that support the unions and support the NDP,
00:25:52.800I think they're going to vote with their heart rather than the logic of the moment.