In this episode of The War Room, host Natalie Winters is joined by Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point, to discuss the impact of the Trump indictments and how to fight back in the face of the current political climate.
00:01:23.000But hey, we're at war. I think we can say that.
00:01:26.000I think Steve was talking about that earlier this morning on today's show.
00:01:30.000So before I get to our first guest who's joining me here, which is, of course, Charlie Kirk, the founder of Turning Point, the guy who makes all of this possible.
00:01:39.000I just want to frame this event for the War Room audience real quick because, you know, young women, not necessarily the target audience of the War Room per se.
00:01:48.000But I think it's important because what we see right now is that Donald Trump, right, they always say they want to get to us.
00:01:57.000They're just going for him first, right?
00:02:04.000It's the people who are behind us, the people who really care about this issue.
00:02:08.000And I think that we've seen that firsthand in terms of a lot of the issues that affect women, right, whether it's the transgender participation in sports, the crazy stuff they're pushing in schools, CRT, DEI, DIE, frankly.
00:02:22.000But I think we've had a lot of victories on that front, right?
00:02:25.000And I think it sort of gives us a playbook as to how to push back because normal people can see through the craziness.
00:02:31.000And I think they're seeing through that with the Trump indictment.
00:02:33.000So before we get into the Trump indictment, I'd love to talk about that with you.
00:02:37.000Can you talk about what we have going on here in Texas?
00:04:32.000Start with the best and go down from there.
00:04:34.000You had a pretty viral tweet, as I'm told by your staff, talking about the Republican primary in the sense, I think, when you actually want to go after the deep state, you need unity, right?
00:04:54.000So the deep state currently is able to stay permanent because it's in both political parties.
00:04:59.000If it was just in the Democrat party, it, by definition, would become less powerful.
00:05:04.000So if you have an opposition party that's actually people-centric, that stands for the Constitution, that's a real threat against this Leviathan.
00:05:14.000So I sent a tweet out as the indictment news came down from President Trump.
00:05:19.000I said, everybody running for the presidency should suspend their campaign, go down to Miami on Tuesday, and give some show of support.
00:05:28.000You don't have to say something nice about Trump.
00:06:02.000A lot of their influencers are mocking the idea.
00:06:05.000But I did that to draw a line in the sand to say, okay, that means that you care more about your own political power than you do about the American people, about the Constitution.
00:06:18.000All we're asking is for you to go down to Miami and say, hey, for example, I'm Nikki Haley.
00:06:37.000I think they've always been controlled opposition.
00:06:39.000I think the way that the deep state tries to nullify the Trump presidency, whether it's since before he won in 2016, obviously in 2020.
00:06:46.000Now we're seeing it again with 2024 with these four sort of old neocon talking points being rammed through, whether the vessel is Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, you name it.
00:06:55.000But I also want to ask you because, you know, according to the Department of Homeland Security, you know, you and I are on the first steps.
00:07:03.000I think you're probably a little further along than I am.
00:07:08.000By the way, the reason why the Department of Homeland Security is afraid is because of this, because of the 2,000 young ladies that we have here, 2,000 plus.
00:07:19.000They would rather have me talking about, you know, invading Somalia to a group of nine people, to have 2,000 activistic, energetic young people that do not embrace the idea of neoliberalism, that want strong families, that think that the trans idea virus and parasite must be destroyed.
00:07:41.000So the Department of Homeland Security loops us in as domestic terrorists.
00:07:45.000For people who don't know what we're talking about, I know a lot of people like to smear us as domestic terrorists, but there was a multi-million dollar taxpayer funded effort that was actually, they had created a really great graphic.
00:08:29.000So, if you just want to talk a little bit about what else you guys are doing in terms of the event space and, again, what exactly is going on here and how people can still come.
00:08:36.000The events are our best known programming, but it's not even a majority of what we do.
00:08:42.000The backbone of Turning Point USA is the gritty stuff, is the hustle work, is the clipboard and tennis shoes, high school chapters, college chapters, organizing, on the front lines.
00:08:53.000That's the backbone of Turning Point USA.
00:08:55.000That's who's attending these training events.
00:09:03.000We just had 1,100 pastors at our Pastors Summit.
00:09:06.000We have our Educators Summit coming up next week in Deerfield, Illinois, where we're going to have hundreds of teachers, government and private school teachers going through some training.
00:09:16.000We have our big ActCon coming up in July.
00:09:43.000But why wouldn't Chris Christie, Mike Pence, Assa Hutchinson show up to an event where we're going to have thousands of grassroots leaders?
00:09:50.000That's coming up, by the way, in July.
00:10:48.000Do you think that young people, not just that they understand conservative principles and conservative values, but do you think they conceive of the fight that we have right now as globalists versus the people?
00:10:59.000Do you think that has really cut through?
00:11:01.000I think our people, you know, our audience does.
00:11:05.000And they're really starting to get the word out.
00:11:07.000Look, most young people are like most, you know, the majority of the country, they're focused on the immediate and the personal.
00:11:14.000And the macro seems to be a little overwhelming and abstract, which is funny because it's also the same generation of things that are going to die of climate change, which is like the most macro apocalyptic thing you could believe in.
00:11:41.000But Nate Cohn from The New York Times came out and decisively said the work that we're doing at Turning Point is working.
00:11:47.000He didn't say that, but he said that this generation is far more conservative than people thought.
00:11:52.000The Obama generation is now 50-50 conservative liberal.
00:11:56.000And so the Turning Point model, Turning Point Action, Turning Point USA through Education, Turning Point Academy, TPSA Faith, it is working.
00:12:14.000We're all working and we are seeing some fruit.
00:12:16.000This Trump indictment thing has multiple layers to it.
00:12:19.000It's a grotesque moment for our republic.
00:12:21.000It is a drive-by shooting of the United States Constitution.
00:12:24.000Rachel Maddow really, you know, spilled it last night on MSNBC where she said, hey, you could do a plea deal where he's not running for the presidency.
00:12:31.000One of those outrageous things I've heard.
00:18:17.000So I've now had a chance to read through the indictment,
00:18:21.000and I think that, you know, it's a good attempt to focus the issues on what Jack Smith and the others at DOJ under Biden want to focus it on.
00:18:32.000But what it ignores are the other key legal statutes and principles that are on the field.
00:18:40.000Namely, constitutionally, first and foremost, we're talking about a president, a commander in chief,
00:18:45.000and he has the ability to declassify documents.
00:19:50.000And clearly in this instance, the specific is the Presidential Records Act.
00:19:55.000The Espionage Act is not designed to regulate a president.
00:19:59.000And historically at the time that statute dates back to it was long before anything like the Presidential Records Act,
00:20:06.000where the president just had, you know, ownership in property.
00:20:10.000Right. Like it was, you know, fee simple for those out there who know something about property law that he held these papers as his actual physical property.
00:20:20.000And so, you know, to imagine that that statute was designed to intrude on the powers of the presidency under Article two,
00:20:29.000and then, you know, override how classification works, et cetera, which is all traceable to the end and within the plenary power of the president, you know, makes no sense.
00:20:40.000And so I think Donald Trump's lawyers are going to have a field day with that defense.
00:20:44.000And it's telling that Jack Smith's indictment is just silent about it. Right.
00:20:48.000He's whistling past the graveyard of that defense by President Trump now.
00:20:52.000You know, I think it's it's pretty ironic and it shouldn't be lost on anyone, at least from an optics perspective.
00:21:01.000They put the guy who used to oversee the Hague, someone the same court that is responsible for overseeing war crimes, people who commit genocide against their own people and others.
00:21:11.000That's the guy that they repositioned to go after Donald Trump.
00:21:16.000Ironically, the guy who didn't start any new foreign wars, the guy who actually pulled us out of those wars.
00:21:21.000I know Trump is Hitler, according to the left, but still doesn't seem to warrant someone coming over from the Hague.
00:21:28.000But I'm just curious. It seems like such a weak case. Right. Legally, it doesn't really seem like they have the merits.
00:21:38.000But in your opinion, do you think that they don't even care about the legal framework, really the law as an actual theater of war?
00:21:47.000It's always just been about the court of public opinion.
00:21:50.000They want to have Joe Biden as replete and irony as it could be in hypocrisy.
00:21:55.000They want to have Joe Biden be able to stand, probably fall, but stand up there and be able to call out Donald Trump as someone who's violated the Espionage Act.
00:22:05.000What is the driving force behind this?
00:22:09.000I think the driving force behind it is the completely illegitimate objective, Natalie, of removing an option from the voters in November of twenty twenty four or, you know, trying to even interfere with that choice in primaries or in debates, et cetera, by just casting a cloud over President Donald Trump.
00:22:31.000Look, if if lightning strikes and they manage to get a conviction because of, you know, the luck of the draw on the jury or something like that, it's hard for me to imagine that it really could survive appeal to the 11th Circuit or review by the Supreme Court.
00:22:46.000But let's say, you know, they could clear all those hurdles. I think they see that as gravy.
00:22:50.000They see that as icing on the cake. But the process is the punishment.
00:22:54.000The fact that the president of the United States is going to have to defend himself against these, you know, very weak and far removed from primary criminal conduct, you know, allegations is the victory.
00:23:07.000It is the objective. So as I've started, you know, I described this earlier.
00:23:11.000So let me like rehash it because maybe people will get it more now.
00:23:14.000There are primary crimes like bribery. Right. And that's exactly what we're looking at potentially with Joe Biden.
00:23:20.000Right. In terms of, you know, bribery that the House Oversight Committee through this whistleblower has, you know, looked at and unveiled.
00:23:31.000But President Trump isn't guilty of any primary crime. So then they go to obstruction.
00:23:35.000You know, we're investigating, you know, a potential primary crime like they don't have that.
00:23:40.000So then they go to a documents crime. And for all the reasons we've been discussing for over many weeks now, like under the Presidential Records Act, you know, and given the president's plenary power over declassification, you know, they don't really have a documents crime either.
00:23:57.000So what did they do now? What they're really presenting the heart of the case, I think, is an obstruction case based on a documents case. Right.
00:24:08.000So you're now three levels of removed. You know, it's not a primary crime.
00:24:12.000It's not a secondary crime, which would be obstruction of a primary crime.
00:24:15.000It's not a tertiary crime, which is a documents crime. It's an obstruction crime about a tertiary crime.
00:24:20.000It's a quaternary crime. It's that far removed from a primary illegal conduct.
00:24:27.000And this is the best, you know, that they've been able to come up with after, you know, who knows how many assaults on President Trump.
00:24:34.000I lose count of, you know, how many we got him now and this time kinds of allegations they've launched since 2015, 2016.
00:24:42.000Well, speaking of primaries, you know, I think Republicans who are still in the race and who have not actually issued substantive, meaningful statements in support of Donald Trump, which really is just a vessel, someone who represents the thing itself, the weaponization of the administrative state against the American people.
00:25:04.000They're aiding and abetting the administrative state. They've already failed the first test as to whether or not they're controlled opposition.
00:25:10.000You're someone you worked in the Trump administration. You understand the politics.
00:25:14.000What is your take on some of these Republican contenders who are still sticking in the primary, who have yet to offer meaningful statements and really not just statements, but action, action, action when it comes to the weaponization, full scale, complete and total weaponization of the deep state against Donald Trump?
00:25:34.000I got about two minutes before I have to let you go.
00:25:37.000Sure. So, Natalie, what I would say there is, look, if these candidates were smart and they also wanted to unify the Republican Party and put the best case forward for some Republican to be elected in 2024, they would all link arms and they would say, look, we have various differences.
00:25:54.000All depends on the differences. All depends on the candidate with Donald Trump. But we all agree that this is a witch hunt, that this is a perversion of the American system of justice.
00:26:03.000It cannot continue. And, you know, we on that front will lend our united support against President Trump and all you know, and if they were really, really, really smart, they would show up next Tuesday and they would all, you know, try to grab the microphone and explain why it is that this is a perversion of our constitutional system, Natalie.
00:26:22.000But I don't think they're going to do that. It seems like they're going to just, you know, purport. Some of them will purport to want to help President Trump. But, you know, secretly, they're hoping that he goes down.
00:26:34.860Jeff Clark, if people want to stay up to date with what you're working on at the Center for Renewing America, where can they find you and follow you?
00:26:41.800Sure. So, Natalie, thanks. I'm at Jeff Clark U.S. on Twitter and Getter and at Real Jeff Clark on True Social. And I see you have the website up. That is AmericaRenewing.com.
00:26:53.980Thank you so much for joining us, Jeff. And shout out to Denver for getting that website up.
00:27:03.600Well, I'm still here at Turning Point USA's Young Women's Leadership Summit. We're going to have Mike Davis joining us after the break.
00:27:10.000But just remember, I know it might seem like ill time to have this event, right, talking about fun girl stuff as Donald Trump and his family are going through hell.
00:27:18.940Really, I think you could almost argue it's kinetic warfare in its own sense, at least the lawfare side of it.
00:27:24.260But remember, the issue, whether it's transgender participation in female sports, the CRT in the classrooms, these issues, particularly that moms have gotten really fired up about,
00:27:35.420I think that gives us a very nice and powerful and really salient playbook how to push back against the weaponization of the federal government,
00:27:44.640against people, against the decisions that you can make over your own body, over what you do with your life, over what your children are allowed to do,
00:27:51.600what vaccines they're allowed to take or not to take. And fundamentally, it comes down to what you perceive of reality,
00:27:57.340because we're not going to be gaslit by the deep state into thinking Donald Trump is guilty of violating the Espionage Act or someone who needs a prosecutor all the way over from The Hague,
00:28:08.660someone who should be prosecuting genocidal dictators, prosecuting the only guy who ever got this country out of all these unnecessary foreign wars,
00:28:17.180started by these same exact people who are trying now to put him in jail for the rest of his life.
00:28:22.500We'll be right back. Mike Davis, documents, you know it. Hang in there.
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00:29:47.020He's facing 37 counts, but the question we all had was what were those counts going to be?
00:29:59.980He has been charged with willful retention of national defense information, conspiracy to obstruct justice, withholding a document or record, corruptly concealing a document in a federal investigation, a scheme to conceal, false statements and representations.
00:30:16.800NADA has been charged with conspiracy to obstruct justice, withholding a document or record, corruptly concealing a document in a federal investigation scheme to conceal, false statements and representations.
00:30:28.640This is not a brief, a small, a tightly focused, if you will, one or two instances.
00:30:38.600This is what you would have expected, given the stakes, given the amount of time that was taken with this.
00:30:46.340Incredibly well detailed with photos, with instances, with pages and pages of examples of specific documents.
00:31:07.240And if you're someone who hates Donald Trump and says that it's not going to be a fair outcome unless he's convicted, you're wrong because he is presumed innocent and we have to go through the trial process.
00:31:17.620If you're someone who says and Mr. Ray referred broadly to this, that he can't get a fair trial, then you don't believe in America because he can.
00:31:26.940You know what they say about crossing the Rubicon.
00:31:34.640We have been since the inception of this show, since the days of war room impeachment, war room pandemic, and now war room 2020 and now war room 2024.
00:31:43.140Thank God they took Anthony Fauci out of these shows intro because I can only take so many deep state people in this show for so long.
00:31:51.500But I think we have Mike Davis joining us.
00:32:04.180But Mike, if you want to give us your thoughts, primarily on the indictment, but the all too convenient timing of the fact that it drops the same day that the GOP Oversight Committee manages to get its hands, its claws on the FD 1023 form being completely stonewalled and covered up and heavily redacted by the FBI.
00:32:26.540Today's indictment confirms what we've known since August, Natalie, we've said this a lot on the war room, that this is a political hit on President Trump.
00:32:39.560And it is a political hit to go get back Trump's declassified crossfire hurricane records that he declassified via presidential memo on January 19th, 2021.
00:32:52.720He is allowed to take them to the office of former president in Mar-a-Lago, just like President Clinton was allowed to take eight years of highly classified recordings of his presidency, including discussions with other foreign leaders, the most classified documents imaginable.
00:33:13.260These are presidents of the United States.
00:33:15.080They're not low-level employees of the Department of Defense.
00:33:18.220As a matter of constitutional law, we treat presidents and former presidents differently.
00:33:24.100As a matter of statute, we treat them differently.
00:33:26.980The Presidential Records Act applies to presidents and former presidents and their handling of their presidential records.
00:33:34.860The Espionage Act does not apply to them.
00:33:37.140The Espionage Act would apply to a former vice president like Joe Biden or a former secretary of state like Hillary Clinton and how they used stolen classified records for their corrupt foreign dealings.
00:33:51.740We have a former president having his presidential records in the office of former president, which Congress provides office space, secure office space, federally funded staff with security clearances, Secret Service protection.
00:34:04.580Again, these documents never leaked for 18 months that Trump had them until Biden ordered this home raid on Trump under the bogus pretext, under the smokescreen, that they were getting classified records.
00:34:19.140It doesn't matter whether they're classified records.
00:34:24.080Again, the whole reason for this was to get the crossfire hurricane records that were so damning.
00:34:30.500And so the timing is obviously political.
00:34:33.220They did this the day after the House Oversight Committee came forward with the nail in the coffin evidence that the FBI has covered up since 2017 that Biden and Hunter took $10 million in bribes, five to Joe, five to Hunter from Burisma, when Joe Biden was the vice president of the United States and they changed American policy.
00:34:58.900They told Joe Biden, Joe Biden told the Ukrainian president that he was going to lose a billion dollars in USAID if the Ukrainian president didn't fire the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating Burisma and the Bidens.
00:35:24.280That's why this unprecedented indictment of a former president is coming out today to cover up for the fact that Biden has this damning evidence that got confirmed yesterday.
00:35:39.540This is fortunately this case is before Judge Cannon in the Southern District of Florida.
00:35:44.680Judge Cannon is a very smart, fair judge.
00:35:48.160She understands the difference between the Presidential Records Act that applies to presidents and former presidents and the Espionage Act that does not.
00:35:56.680And so Trump will get a fair trial down it with Judge Cannon.
00:36:36.320Frankly, I think the fact that they're going after Donald Trump's Donald Trump proves that they're guilty.
00:36:41.280I guess, honestly, we should be going after them for espionage because maybe that's what this whole entire Biden family crime syndicate has been about.
00:36:48.860That's what the Alinsky-ite axiom would tell us.
00:36:53.840Because it's not just that they're going after Trump.
00:36:56.500They're also trying to silence all of the people who can potentially defend him, whether it's Jeff Clark in the D.C. bar, whether it's nuking Tucker on Fox News.
00:37:05.680How about this going after Ken Paxton, AG down in Texas, all this talk about conservative AGs actually returning these lawfare charges that they're pressing against Donald Trump, doing that to the Democrats.
00:37:17.440And you see just weeks later, Ken Paxton impeached one of his allies, arrested by the FBI.
00:37:37.220I don't like to disagree with my boss all that often.
00:37:39.500But in this case, I do because the timing is just, it's absolutely bizarre.
00:37:44.220But, Mike, in terms of actually being able to fight back, I know you're one of the harshest critics of the House Oversight Committee and the Weaponization Subcommittee,
00:37:52.980basically all the committees we have going on, on the Hill, do you think what they're doing is enough?
00:38:00.620I've always been a fan of James Comer and the Oversight Committee.
00:38:40.660This is said too much, but they have crossed the Rubicon.
00:38:44.020This is going to mean there's going to be a weaponization tit-for-tat going forward that is just not very healthy.
00:38:51.760But I'll tell you what needs to happen.
00:38:53.460We need to give Democrats a healthy dose of their own medicine.
00:38:58.160So I would say that House Republicans, these committee chairmen, start issuing subpoenas immediately for the 51 intel goons who said that the Hunter Biden laptop was a Russian disinformation campaign in 2020 to help cover for Joe Biden's troubles,
00:39:17.820to cover for the fact that Hunter Biden's laptop got picked up by the New York Post, America's oldest newspaper, and the New York Post was going to report Joe Biden's foreign bribery schemes, his foreign corruption.
00:39:32.040The Democrats did the same play in 2016 when they accused Trump of Russian collusion and launched the Crossfire Hurricane illegal investigation to hobble his presidency.
00:39:44.140They got illegal spy warrants by lying to the FISA court on Carter Page and others.
00:39:50.540We need to go after the Democrats for their real crimes.
00:39:53.840Hillary Clinton for her real crimes, her real espionage, where she took classified documents.
00:40:00.020She had a classified server, and she had an illegal foreign bribery scheme, pay-for-play bribery scheme at the Clinton Foundation.
00:40:07.060We have to look at Joe Biden and his sleazeball family.
00:40:11.500Every Biden seems to be on the Chinese, Ukrainian, Romanian, other foreign governments' payrolls.
00:40:17.380Millions and millions and millions of dollars, at least $10 million that we know of from this Ukraine bribe, $6 million that House Oversight Chairman James Comer
00:40:27.800has been able to identify just with one bank account with 11 more, $6 million from China.
00:40:32.640That's $16 million that they can pin just from China and Ukraine with just one bank account.
00:40:39.160Just imagine what else they can find on the Bidens.
00:40:42.000Every Biden has gotten money except for the four-year-old granddaughter who they don't claim.