Episode 3704： MSNBC Meltdown Over The Facts Of Project 2025
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Summary
In this episode, I sit down with the President of The Heritage Foundation, Ronald Reagan's son and current president of the Heritage Action Political Action Committee, Dr. Steven K. Roberts, to discuss the recent Supreme Court ruling allowing President Trump to keep his 2020 re-election campaign on track.
Transcript
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to all the other judges that are not putting their finger on the scale for Donald Trump.
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What you're seeing is let's throw everything on the wall. I mean, there is a legal theory,
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right? It's called the spaghetti theory. You throw everything on the wall. Maybe it's ketchup
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for Donald Trump and you see what sticks. And when you try to go against the prosecution or
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the judges and you allege bias or you allege some type of partisan action that's being taken by the
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judicial system, that then rigs the outcome, right? So when Donald Trump is convicted,
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he could just point to that and say, well, Judge Mershon was biased or DA Alvin Bragg had it in
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for me because Bragg is racist. How that works? I have no idea. And so when you do that, you can
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try to end run the legal outcome of a judicial system. And that gives you the cover that you
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need for your less educated, lower valued voters that are going to buy into that saying that there's
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no way that this outcome could have occurred other than something being wrong with the prosecutors
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or the judges in the case. I have one follow-up. It's just that you have said that this plan is
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about instituting, institutionalizing Trumpism. So, because I also know you all, you're not just
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the president of the Heritage Foundation, you're also president of the Heritage Action, which is
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the political action committee. And so is it tied to Trump or not? I said the context for that comment
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to the New York Times was that the work of the Heritage Foundation was to institutionalize
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Trumpism. Trumpism as a new version of conservatism, a conservatism that recognizes that by every
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objective measure, the United States is weaker in 2024 than it was in 1984. We also happen to think
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that's reversible, by the way. We're ultimately optimists. And by institutionalizing Trumpism,
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what we're saying is that even though we are known as Ronald Reagan's think tank, I'm the son of the
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Reagan revolution, I'm very proud of that, that that's 40 years ago. And we need to understand what
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time it is in America. And right now, Donald Trump, whether someone likes it or not, I happen to like
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it, is the standard bearer for conservatives. About this upcoming election, is your organization
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going to accept the results of the 2024 presidential election? I believe that Dr. Roberts can't hear.
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So Alicia just asked, is your organization going to accept the results of the 2024 election,
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regardless of the outcome? Yes, if there isn't massive fraud like there was in 2020.
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What does that mean? If there isn't massive fraud. Do you believe that
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there was not massive fraud? There was massive fraud. We have an election
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database that has documented that over years. By the way, the Heritage Foundation has been
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concerned about election integrity for decades, not just about 2020. We've been documenting this
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problem for a very long time. I believe, according to the Heritage Foundation, sir,
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there, by your count, Heritage Foundation has done an investigation. And according to your count,
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there have been 1,513 proven instances of voter fraud across the United States since 1982.
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Because they're very hard to document. And the Democrat Party is very good at fraud.
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The key thing here, which I think we would both agree on, is that we aspire at the Heritage Foundation
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to seeing a poll after this election where every American believes their vote was counted.
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I care as deeply about someone on the political left with whom I disagree,
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saying that they have confidence in the outcome of the election. It seems rather than turn this
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into a partisan conversation, which you do a good job of at MSNBC, we might say we aspire to something
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more noble, which is that every American believes their vote counts.
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I mean, I don't think it's partisan to ask if you will accept the results of the election.
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I do have another question. I'm specifically interested as it relates,
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Dr. Roberts, to the deportation of immigrants in this country, just understanding sort of how
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it is going to work. We talk about folks on the interior, how you see a future administration
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utilizing the National Guard, i.e. police forces to deport something like 11 million people.
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So she is asking about immigration and how you see immigration, how in this plan,
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how you talk about using, like, the National Guard to deport individuals. Like, what is the,
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Alicia, and do tell me if I am adequately summarizing.
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People on the interior specifically, not people on the border, people within this country.
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Well, first of all, we need to close the border. And secondly, we need to have the biggest mass
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deportation system ever in the history of America because it is unjust and illegal and evil that more
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than 10 million illegal aliens have come to this country. It's imperative that we send those people back.
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In fact, invite them back to come through the legal system. We love immigrants at Heritage,
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Well, are you talking about going door to door? Because that's what the, I mean,
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The first thing is that there's going to be a lot of self-deportation. The interesting thing,
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as you no doubt know, is that simply talking about this and beginning to implement a plan,
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and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for talking about this,
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causes people to say, I don't want to run the risk of being arrested for doing something illegal.
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But secondly, there are great plans using the Department of Homeland Security to return
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to these people back to south of the border. The great thing is, even a majority of people
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on the political left agree with this because they see the damage that this has done.
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This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies, because we're going
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medieval on these people. You've just not got a free shot at all these networks lying about the
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people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you've
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tried to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen.
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And where do people like that go to share the big line? MAGA media. I wish in my soul,
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I wish that any of these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my
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purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
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It's Saturday, 22 June in the year of our Lord, 2024. President Trump has two massive
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speaking engagements today, one in Philadelphia near Temple University, the other at the Faith
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and Freedom Conference later today. Real America's Voice is in both places. We're going to get to all
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that. We have Raheem and Ben Berquam in the United Kingdom following that amazing campaign that's
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going on over there. We have Ben Harnwell in Rome. He's going to talk about a revolution in France that
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people better get there, better get, better understand. We're going to make sure you totally
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understand it. The implosion, the implosion of the global elitist in France. We're going to get to
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that. We've got Michael Patrick Lay. I want to start, and we're going to try to get Dr. Kevin
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Roberts, who gave a star turn this morning on MSNBC. I think it was five on one. Raheem Kassam,
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I'm going to come back to you about Niger and all that, but you just saw Dr. Kevin Roberts talking
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about Project 2025, talking about what has to happen with the forever wars, the mass deportation,
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sealing the border, on and on and on. And MSNBC went through absolute total meltdown. Your thoughts,
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Completely expected, of course. The demonization of people who are working to restore the federal
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government to what it was supposed to be in the United States seems to be triggering people
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almost as much as what Nigel Farage saying about Ukraine is triggering people on this side of the
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No, I know they're coming with him on Russia, but the thing that triggered them the most
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was Dr. Kevin Roberts and the Project 2025 plan with others, you know, Russ Fulton and others,
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that back up President Trump's plan to seal the border and to do mass deportations.
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Is that not still the single biggest issue that the reason of the rise of Nigel Farage right now is
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this situation? Because this is what's happening in France. The end of your society, the end of your
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culture by this mass migration or mass invasion is not what's happening and what you guys are
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following. We just had Ben Berquam threaten with getting shanked in the throat. Is this not the
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single central biggest issue in the Judeo-Christian West?
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It is. And, you know, if you go around, especially we're in a neighborhood called Jaywick at the moment in the
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constituency of Clacton, if you go around and you actually talk to the people here at the pubs and here at the
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campaign offices and we've been doing and seeing members of the public out on the street talking to them, it is
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predominantly the immigration election. Now, of course, you'd probably be aware, Steve, the Americans talk about the issue in a lot more
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starker terms and look more brusque terms than some of the people around here do. They've been kind of beaten it out of
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them that they can actually be honest and be upfront and be forthright. We were talking to a bunch of people last
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night outside one of the village halls that Nigel Farage was doing an event in about this as well. And people are very
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cautious. You know, they don't want to be charged with a hate crime. They don't want to be, you know, have their children
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taken away simply because they vote a certain way or they affiliate with a certain party. But it is the immigration
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election. And that's the thing that Nigel Farage keeps saying over and over again.
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Raheem, hang on a second. We're going to come back and talk about this in more detail. Michael Patrick
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Leahy joins us. And I've got you here, Michael, for your breaking news on Vanderbilt and Vanderbilt
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Medical and everything with this radical transgender ideology and your great coverage of the Covenant
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school shooting. But I've got to ask you, because you're one of the smartest guys I know,
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uh, the, the, the deconstruction of the administrative state now has MSNBC, the New York
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Times, absolutely apoplectic. They cannot handle it. Your thoughts, sir?
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I think exactly right. And, uh, Kevin Roberts on MSNBC just did a great tour de force of putting
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forward the argument for the destruction of the administrative state. And as, as your audience
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saw, the heads on MSNBC talking heads were exploding.
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No, it's a, we're going to get into more of it. We're trying to get Dr. Roberts on this
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morning, giving this tour de force. It was actually greater than what he did at Davos,
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which I think was pretty great. Uh, Michael, I know you've got to go. You're hosting an event
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this morning. I asked you to be at the top of the show. Uh, talk to me about, uh, this is really
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quite disturbing because Vanderbilt University and Vanderbilt Medical Center are kind of revered
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institutions, not just in, uh, Nashville, not just in Tennessee, but throughout the whole
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nation. Uh, your reporting has people pretty shocked. Can you get us up to date?
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Yeah. As everybody knows, uh, on March 27th, 2023, 28-year-old Audrey Elizabeth Hale, who
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was born female, self-identified as a transgender male, walked into her former elementary school,
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covenant school here in Nashville, Tennessee, and murdered three nine-year-olds and three staff
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members within 20 minutes on that day, Metro Nashville Police Department, uh, uh, killed
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her. Now that's March, uh, 27th. We have sought in court to obtain about a thousand pages of
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her writings. And, uh, that case is, uh, still under review here in Nashville in Tennessee
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Chancery Court by Judge LaShia Miles. We obtained, uh, legally some documents, uh, early in June,
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about 80 pages of the transgender killers journals out of a thousand the judge is reviewing. And then
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some other documents that were unrelated to what the judge is reviewing. One of those documents
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showed that there was an affidavit from the lead investigator seeking a search warrant from Vanderbilt
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University Medical Center. Um, we also secured the results of that search warrant. We published this
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and we showed actually the document and the metadata connecting the notes taken from that search
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warrant by the lead investigator. And they were stunning, Steve. They showed that medical health
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professionals at Vanderbilt University Medical Center knew that Audrey Elizabeth Hale, A, wanted to
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kill her father and wanted to engage in a mass school shooting. Now in Tennessee, there is a duty to
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warn law. Nobody at men at Vanderbilt University Medical Center warned her father or alerted anybody
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about it. And so, uh, no one knew this for over a year, uh, until we published that story earlier this
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month. Well, and just a reminder, just a reminder that Vanderbilt University Medical Center was at the
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center of a controversy when a medical doctor there announced in 2018 that transgender surgery was
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quote, quote, big money. So fast forward on Thursday, we received a message from a father
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of a teenage girl currently receiving treatment at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, who says,
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my daughter went in there for treatment in 2020, 2021, and immediately began talking about the
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transgender lifestyle and wanted her change her name to a male name. And he, he said he has reason to
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believe, but not prove that Vanderbilt University Medical Center was, uh, encouraging this move to
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a transgender lifestyle. Very disturbing. And his question was the father, the distraught father's
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question was, is Vanderbilt University Medical Center through its psychiatric hospital, grooming young
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teenage girls to become transgender surgery candidates where there is quote, big money for Vanderbilt
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University Medical Center. Unbelievable. Michael Patrick Leahy, where do people keep up with this
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over the weekend, social media? I know you're at an event, but the Tennessee stars on top of this.
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And let me say something, given the great folks, the volunteer state, the great folks in Tennessee,
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Nashville, which is now becoming not just one of the major cities in the United States, but soon to
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be one of the major cities in the world should be absolutely ashamed that one of their great
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institutions. Vanderbilt University Medical Center is, uh, is doing this. It's absolutely outrageous.
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And your courage to attack this and go after it is incredible. Where do people go? Michael Patrick
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Leahy. Just a little reminder. Uh, I am still in legal jeopardy in the state case where the,
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the judge is, uh, threatening to, uh, charge me with contempt of court for the non-crime of exercising
00:14:05.380
my first amendment rights. If anybody wants to help out our legal fees, go to tennesseestar.com
00:14:10.500
slash donate. And to see the entire, uh, 50 or so stories we've written on it this month,
00:14:16.340
go to tennesseestar.com. We've got a little tab there, covenant shooter investigation. Just click
00:14:21.580
on the tab and you can see all the stories. Got to get to the bottom of this transgender violence
00:14:27.360
is, uh, is going to overwhelm the schools that we don't watch out and get on top of it. Michael
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Patrick Leahy. Thank you very much. Honored to have you on here. Okay. We're going to return.
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We got a team. Kassam and Ben Burkwam in England. We have our own, uh, Ben Harnwell in Rome. Uh,
00:14:44.940
John Solomon's going to join us. Uh, Jeff Clark's going to join us. Uh, Bob Good's going to just,
00:14:49.820
we are packed today. Cash Patel, all of it on a Saturday morning in the word short commercial.
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I'm specifically interested as it relates, um, Dr. Roberts to the deportation of immigrants in this
00:16:08.560
country, just understanding sort of how it is going to work. We talk about folks on the interior,
00:16:12.940
how you see, um, a future administration utilizing the national guard, ice police forces to deport
00:16:20.520
something like 11 million people. Could you hear? So she is asking about, uh, immigration and how you
00:16:27.300
see immigration, how, um, in this plan, how you talk about using like the national guard to deport
00:16:32.460
individuals. Like what is the, uh, Alicia, and do tell me if I am adequate people on the interior
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specifically, people on the interior specifically, not people on the border, people within this country.
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Well, first of all, we need to close the border. And secondly, we need to have the biggest mass
00:16:47.880
deportation system ever in the history of America, because it is unjust and illegal and evil that more
00:16:53.820
than 10 million illegal aliens have come to this country. It's imperative that we send those people
00:16:58.620
back, invite them back to come through the legal system. We love immigrants at heritage, but we also
00:17:02.840
love the rule of law. So how do you plan to carry that out? Well, are you talking about going door to
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door? Cause that's what the, I mean, I could read from the plan, but I think the first thing is that
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there's going to be a lot of self deportation. The interesting thing, as you no doubt know,
00:17:15.860
is that simply talking about this and beginning to implement a plan and president Trump deserves a
00:17:20.560
lot of credit for talking about this causes people to say, I don't want to run the risk of being
00:17:25.180
arrested for doing something illegal. But secondly, there are great plans using the department of
00:17:29.620
Homeland security to return to these people back to South of the border. The great thing is even a
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majority of people on the political left agree with this because they see the damage that this has done.
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What are they doing now? Which people? The, the folks, the 11 million, 20 million,
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whatever you want to deport. A lot of them are committing crimes like murdering the 12 year old
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girl in Houston. Uh, in fact, that's one out of 11 million. Uh, what, what is the remaining time
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of the segment? And I can give you a lot of examples. Undocumented immigrants were 37.1% less likely
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to be convicted of a crime. Um, undocumented immigrants, and according to a survey,
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University of California, Riverside study, 33% less likely to be in prison. Tell that to the
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survivors of the young lady killed. I'm just given the numbers. Well, what do you tell the
00:18:12.580
parents of those people, those young girls who were killed? This is, I mean, the preponderance
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of these people, Michael, are male. But what is the difference between an illegal immigrant
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who unfortunately engages in that activity? And we don't like that. I want to be clear.
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We don't do the term illegal. Undocumented individuals versus, um, anyone else who, who commits
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the same crime? Well, I mean, it's so what you're saying is because you have this instance
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of individuals behaving badly, that that's a reflection of every individual in that community.
00:18:48.820
And that's just not the case. No, it's it. What is the case? Is that because the preponderance
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of percentage of those people that the 11 million that you want to just, I just want
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to clarify my question. That's what I'm trying to do. What percentage of those individuals
00:19:03.020
that you want to get rid of move out of the country actually commit crimes?
00:19:08.260
Our analysis in Texas, Georgia, and New York shows that a preponderance of the illegals
00:19:12.700
who have come in are unattached male. And there are unattached males and the disproportionate
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number of them are people who are not even making any attempt to be illegal.
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What is that number? Are you talking 10 out of a thousand or you're talking, you know,
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I'm just trying to get, well, I just would say, um, and if Alicia were sitting here and
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you could hear her, she would say that you are weaponizing, uh, uh, a horrific murder
00:19:37.180
to smear 11 million people. That is a laughable assertion. What Joe Biden is doing is weaponizing
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the entire government. Before we let you go, Dr. Roberts, I do want to ask you about abortion.
00:19:47.660
They see, they got to pivot back to, that is magnificent. I want, uh, the weekend. That's
00:19:55.060
that morning show. I want the MSNBC script to be Joe Biden script on Thursday night. This will
00:19:59.580
be a 65 35 election right there. You see it. They're defending the 11 million illegal aliens,
00:20:06.600
uh, and they're defending illegal alien crime. It's not a big deal. You're trying to smear people.
00:20:12.240
MSNBC is saying the quiet part. The reason is that Saturday morning show, they're not the best
00:20:16.740
train. I mean, that's not Rachel Maddow or Chris Hayes. That's not prime time, but they're showing
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you the thinking behind it. Ben Harnwell, we have an implosion in, um, we have an implosion in France.
00:20:30.640
Folks understand, this is all the same thing. Now in France, it's gear, it's ratcheting up and going
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next level as Macron is down six points in 30 days. The establishment, uh, in, uh, in France
00:20:45.540
that has allowed the invasion is absolutely imploding in front of our eyes. And the rise
00:20:50.900
of the right is driven by young people that want to save their civilization and save their culture.
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You're seeing much of the same here. This is why president Trump is now tied and about to lead
00:21:00.640
in under 29 years old, a 29 year old, something lost by, I think 30 points in, uh, in, uh, 2020
00:21:07.640
Ben Harnwell, you see right there, they're going to defend. Well, as soon as you mentioned seal the
00:21:12.780
border, mass deportations, they absolutely lose it. And it comes out. They want as many illegal aliens
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here to flood the country and to overwhelm American citizens. And in that discussion, if you don't believe
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my concept of American citizens have to come first, just listen the way MSNBC, you're nothing
00:21:30.440
but scum. You're nothing, but you're the forgotten man and woman, regardless of your race, your
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ethnicity, your religion. They don't care about you now in France and in the United Kingdom,
00:21:41.380
but the United Kingdom, they got to be a lot, they got to dance around it in France. They don't
00:21:44.860
Ben Harnwell, your thoughts. Steve, just responding to the MSNBC segments that we've been hearing in the
00:21:51.720
show today. Um, it's amazing when on the subject of immigration, progressives suddenly become
00:21:58.920
Austrian school libertarians. Um, it's amazing to watch and to behold. Um, however, look, I've got
00:22:06.800
to pick up on two points, um, regarding the, look, and it's very difficult when you're, when you're on
00:22:12.000
television, national television, um, to, to maintain a clear line of thought, uh, especially when you're
00:22:18.200
debating a single person to have basically five people sitting there bombarding you and interrupting
00:22:23.280
you, it's pretty impossible. So just if I, if I pick up on, on, on, on a couple of things, it's by no
00:22:29.000
means a criticism of, uh, of Kevin Roberts. Firstly, however, on the point that, uh, cause you do hear
00:22:35.780
this and I think it depends on state from state to state, whether illegal immigrants are more likely
00:22:41.000
or less likely to commit crime. My response, and of course I've had the luxury of sitting here by
00:22:46.280
myself to, to, to, and a couple of minutes to, to, to, to hear the debate. But my response to that,
00:22:51.520
Steve, is against the suggestion that in Texas, illegal immigrants are 37% less likely to commit
00:22:59.740
crime than, than Americans. My response is, look, one crime from an illegal immigrant in the United
00:23:08.080
States is unacceptable and intolerable. One crime, that's not 1%, one crime from people who should not
00:23:15.460
be in the country. A single infraction of the law is unacceptable. That's my response. And if you're
00:23:22.400
saying to me that, you know, there's 37% less likely on, on behalf of illegals, you know, these
00:23:28.220
people should not be legally in the country. It's, it's unacceptable, Steve. Right. And that is my,
00:23:34.780
you know, that is my response. And I have to wheel back up. There was one point that I, I really,
00:23:39.540
really don't agree with Dr. Robertson. Um, when he said, when he says, look, um, about immigration,
00:23:48.920
he says, um, I love immigrants. He said, um, you know, the people who are here, they should leave
00:23:55.740
and then, and then apply to come back in legally. Steve. And then he goes on about the rule of law,
00:24:00.800
right? Rule of law is important, but it's not the most important thing. This is not,
00:24:04.900
the immigration issue is not about process, right? It's about so much more. And this is the pivot
00:24:10.680
into the French situation, but I have to push back on that, right? What, what the, what, what,
00:24:16.020
what the good president of heritage foundation should have said is I love immigrants, but I love
00:24:21.440
Americans and I love Americans more. Um, because if this is, this is not a zero sum gain that's going on
00:24:28.780
in the economy, in the labor market. Um, and you have to make hard choices and platitudes aren't
00:24:37.260
going to cut it. Not anymore. Not where we are in the national debate. What he was saying, um, earlier
00:24:42.800
on, um, in his contribution, this is where the debate is right now. So to wheel that back and start
00:24:48.940
coming up, you know, and I have to mention, it's not taking place in a vacuum. I have to mention that
00:24:55.180
President Trump's intervention yesterday. Um, I can't agree with that. And I've seen you've posted
00:25:01.320
on Guetta as well, uh, on this. This is wrong. This is not where the debate is right now. MAGA,
00:25:07.520
the, the war in policy have worked and committed so much over recent years to bring the debate to
00:25:14.340
this point, to start wheeling it back and coming out with platitudes, that platitudes, that Jeb
00:25:19.920
exclamation mark or, or Marco Rubio or Nikki Haley could have produced, you know, it's an unsteve,
00:25:26.900
it's an unforced error. I think, uh, of where we are right now to, to talk about what's happening
00:25:32.880
in France. Cause as you say, it's the same debate as he was saying, um, in, in the UK as well. Um,
00:25:39.680
this is fundamentally an argument about civilization against attack. It's fun. It has always been that,
00:25:47.460
but now it is, it is visibly about that. It is about having the society and, and the country
00:25:53.560
that, uh, that your children can grow up in and it be recognizably the same country that you
00:26:00.020
yourself grew up in. Now, I think your point, your point on immigration, um, is something like
00:26:06.100
in the place myself, I want to see every person, every single person in this country, right? Who wants
00:26:12.960
a job to have a job before we start talking about letting people in? That I think is where
00:26:17.660
the debate should be in. But when people start talking about the need to have legal immigration
00:26:23.520
and all the rest of it, Steve, that's code. And what that is code for is I'm going to produce a
00:26:30.660
reasonable sounding platitude now. And after the election, after I've won, I'm going to betray you.
00:26:36.740
That is when you hear Republicans talking in those terms, reach for your gun because you know,
00:26:42.240
the fix is in. Okay. I know we've got a break, I think coming up, but I want to dig into what's
00:26:48.780
happening in France, what's happening in Europe, and also talk about the, the, the role that the
00:26:56.600
Okay. Perfect. Let's put a pin in this because I want to connect what's happening. And oftentimes
00:27:03.980
like Brexit to, uh, you know, Brexit was in June, President Trump's victory was in November,
00:27:09.380
this is in 16. Uh, oftentimes these things take, and they're actually, uh, more profound. What's
00:27:15.040
happening in France right now appears to be absolutely fundamental and quite profound about
00:27:20.460
the saving of a civilization and a society led by a revolt of the young that are now supporting a
00:27:27.720
front national, a national rally and Marie Le Pen. And of course, her 28 year old, uh, wingman who
00:27:34.060
could be the prime minister of Bardello. We're going to get to all that. John Solomon's going to come
00:27:38.100
back. We've got, uh, blockbuster news by John Solomon as usual. Dr. Kevin Roberts is also
00:27:44.300
going to join us. We're going to get him here after his star turn at MSNBC. Birchgold.com
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slash Bannon. Go check it out today. The end of the dollar empire. Also talk to the team at
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Birchgold about gold as a hedge with the plummeting purchasing power of the U S dollar back with John
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00:29:41.520
The great John Solomon joins us. John, thank you for taking time away from your Saturday. Talk to me
00:29:45.980
about this new piece you got up. You and I talked about last night because you're dropping one bomb
00:29:49.940
after the other, sir. Yeah. Well, listen, I think this stems from a conversation you and I had three
00:29:55.580
weeks ago. We started talking on your show about the need to find out if Joe Biden got a defensive
00:30:01.100
briefing. After all the things his son was doing, people in the intelligence community had to see
00:30:06.300
it and say, hey, he's dealing with a company we consider corrupt. He's dealing with an oligarch that
00:30:11.040
Romania considers corrupt. Hey, he's dealing with a Russian oligarch who's having trouble getting
00:30:15.940
money into U.S. banks because of concerns about her. Certainly, the U.S. intelligence community
00:30:20.980
would give a defensive briefing. Why do I say that? In 2015, Hillary Clinton, as her campaign was
00:30:27.240
gearing up, got a defensive briefing about some efforts by untoward foreign influences to influence
00:30:33.340
her campaign. Ironically, Donald Trump didn't get the same. Hey, John, John, John, John, hang on.
00:30:39.420
One thing we try to do here is teach nomenclature. What is a defensive briefing? Why is it important?
00:30:46.000
What is it used by by the deep state? Yeah. So in a normal proper use of it, it's a briefing to a
00:30:53.840
political figure or major business figure telling them we are aware of efforts to influence or
00:30:59.140
infiltrate your organization, to influence you, to potentially compromise you and your family.
00:31:04.400
It goes on all the time. The FBI gives these briefings all the time. In the last 10 years,
00:31:10.040
they've been weaponized a lot more. Democrats seem to get the defensive briefings to benefit them and
00:31:14.720
make sure they're protected. And like in the case of Donald Trump, he didn't get a briefing during that
00:31:18.840
whole time where they claimed they thought Russia was trying to influence the campaign. They don't
00:31:23.660
brief him. And then in 2020, they weaponized it against conservatives when Ron Johnson and Chuck
00:31:31.820
Grassley were digging into Hunter Biden and all of these untoward foreign deals that were going on.
00:31:37.780
They tried to brief him and suggest, hey, this could be a Russian disinformation campaign. Be careful.
00:31:42.460
Now, by the time they made that briefing, they had no basis to make it, just like the 51 intelligence
00:31:47.740
agents didn't have a way to make it. So it's been weaponized by the administrative state in the last
00:31:53.180
decade. But in normal history, it's a very valuable tool. The FBI or the CIA comes in and said,
00:31:58.540
someone's trying to infiltrate you. Someone tries to harm your family. Someone is trying to create
00:32:03.260
a compromise for you. And those briefings usually put a public leader in a position to defend against
00:32:09.300
themselves. Given the amount of people that were infiltrating the Biden circle and given the nature
00:32:15.460
of the money that was changing hands and who it was coming from, people like Mr. Zolczewski,
00:32:20.040
the owner of Burisma, the oligarch Papa Vicu in Romania, people that were on the U.S.
00:32:25.180
intelligence radar. Elena Botterino, the Russian oligarch who was trying to get real estate deals
00:32:31.880
done in the United States. It seems improbable from every expert that I've talked to that
00:32:36.600
both Joe Biden and probably Barack Obama didn't get these briefings. They probably did. And why is
00:32:43.740
that such an important story? Like we talked about a few months ago, a few weeks ago, the American
00:32:49.480
people kind of glaze over. There's all these complex business transactions. There's all these foreign
00:32:53.740
sounding names and they know something bad, Juan, but it doesn't all fall into place. In fact,
00:32:58.300
that may have been part of the Hunter Biden design, right? Make it so complicated, no one would
00:33:02.020
understand it. It's a very simple story to say, Joe Biden was told his son was dealing with bad
00:33:07.240
people. And then he continued to enable his son doing that, going to the Cafe Milano's, going to the
00:33:12.960
phone calls, going to the, having meetings with his business associates at the Naval Observatory,
00:33:18.860
all the things that we've proven. Such a simple story. So that's what we laid out in the last week.
00:33:24.000
I had interviews with both Jim Jordan and James Comer. They have now requested the, and the
00:33:31.100
Intelligence Committee provide them any and all defensive briefings that both Barack Obama and
00:33:36.420
Joe Biden got. And Comer went further. He clearly knows something and said, I'm pretty certain they
00:33:41.980
happened and we're going to get them. That is a major development. It could be a game changer in this
00:33:46.360
impeachment argument because it's very simple. Joe Biden knew and he still went and assisted his
00:33:51.320
son. He got warned. He still assisted his son. Now, if the Intelligence Committee didn't provide
00:33:55.840
those defensive briefings, then the FBI and the CIA have a lot of explaining to do because as the
00:34:01.240
documents I've made public the last month show, the FBI had 3.39 million pages of documents
00:34:06.900
showing all of these foreign contacts and all of these influence battling schemes that the Bidens were
00:34:12.320
involved in. Either way, this is a major story. And finally, Congress is on the trail.
00:34:18.980
Amazing. John, thank you for taking time away on Saturday. Where do people go for the show,
00:34:23.340
the podcast, your writings, the news site, all of it?
00:34:26.900
Absolutely. JusttheNews.com has everything. Go there and check it out. I'm lucky enough to follow
00:34:31.540
you every Monday through Friday here on Real America's Voice. That's always exciting. And then,
00:34:36.520
of course, I have a Jay Solomon reports on all Twitter.
00:34:43.020
Brother Solomon, you're on the case and good things are happening. Thank you so much, sir. Appreciate
00:34:51.260
We have a cold open for Dr. Kevin Roberts. Dr. Kevin Roberts, we opened the show with his
00:34:55.900
five-on-one throwdown today on MSNBC. Let's do the cold open. We'll bring in Dr. Kevin Roberts
00:35:01.760
from Heritage. Dr. Roberts started with a bit of a falsehood because he's trying to distance his
00:35:10.280
project from Trumpism. Although, as you pointed out, he said the point is to institutionalize
00:35:15.760
Trumpism. In fact, the idea, one of the core ideas of Project 2025, which is, let's be clear,
00:35:22.940
it's a blueprint to transform American government and society from a liberal democracy to an autocracy.
00:35:29.020
And one of the core things is dismantling the administrative state. That's a quote.
00:35:35.040
Who is the genesis of this idea? It's Steve Bannon. And I know because I wrote an op-ed,
00:35:43.740
and I was very frightened as I wrote it, on February 1st, 2017, for CNN, called Trump and
00:35:49.940
Bannon's coup in the making. And it described a plan to have kind of a blitzkrieg of executive orders
00:35:59.080
that would transform government to dismantle the government and to institute a governance structure
00:36:08.040
that allowed the executive to not have controls on him anymore. And this is one of the main influences
00:36:15.680
we see now developed in Project 2025. So this is a radical right project. Now, the other thing I just
00:36:23.780
want to say to start off is it's an interesting quote of Dr. Roberts that they tell the truth
00:36:29.260
with a smile on their face. And they have to have a smile on their face because what their project will
00:36:34.680
do, it's a recipe for mass chaos, mass hardship. I mean, think about the human and social and economic
00:36:41.860
actual outcomes of abolishing the Department of Commerce. If you have people in business who
00:36:48.020
are watching, they want to abolish the Department of Commerce because they want to remove regulations
00:36:52.280
on plunderers of the economy. The Department of Education, the Department of Justice, all the
00:36:59.760
things that are integral to the health of our children, the integrity of our society, national
00:37:07.540
security, all of this is supposed to go because the real project is to destroy the governance apparatus
00:37:13.880
and the civil servants of liberal democracy and create the structures and the personnel that will
00:37:20.600
support autocracy. As you know, this audience, Project 2025, Mandate for Leadership, the conservative
00:37:27.920
promise by Dr. Kevin, forwarded by Dr. Kevin Roberts, edited by Paul Dans, Stephen Groves, which is a,
00:37:35.520
it's a blueprint for a conservative approach to the Leviathan, a project that's been worked on for a while.
00:37:43.500
Dr. Kevin Roberts, a star turned this morning because they absolutely, totally and completely
00:37:47.900
melted down. Could you just walk through your theory of the case about the administrative state,
00:37:52.680
how this Leviathan grew, and the kind of logic to support a constitutional republic that this is,
00:37:59.240
to actually kind of take it on and see how you can change it for the better, sir?
00:38:05.520
Yes, Steve, first of all, thanks for having me on. It's always a pleasure. The core question is the
00:38:10.520
one that you just asked. And in essence, as you know, and your audience knows, what Project 2025
00:38:15.800
is trying to do is issue a corrective, a series of new regulation or deregulation, new policies,
00:38:23.400
new leadership to undo, to correct the century-long capital P progressive project of establishing a
00:38:31.320
fourth branch of government, the administrative state. And it would seem to me, just thinking
00:38:35.360
about my visit to MSNBC, that former Republicans, former conservatives like Michael Steele, if there's
00:38:42.080
any shred of intellectual honesty remaining among people like that, would understand that this
00:38:46.900
actually transcends, this goal transcends Republican and Democrat. It actually is exceedingly constitutional.
00:38:53.200
And probably what I should have asked MSNBC is, for a network that purports to save democracy,
00:38:58.620
why would you be opposed to a project whose main aim is to restore this constitutional republic?
00:39:04.860
The answer ultimately, just is sort of personified by that history professor, is that they simply can't
00:39:10.740
handle the truth that for the first time in the history of the conservative movement in this country,
00:39:15.900
we're as organized as they are. We are as prepared, as they have always been,
00:39:20.700
to take the reins of power and use it appropriately for the everyday American.
00:39:26.920
Dr. Roberts, it's ironic that you had this turn. And by the way, the reason I think our audience so
00:39:32.900
admires you is that you just don't come on War Room or go on Fox. You go to Davos main stage and
00:39:39.500
throw down hard in front of the party of Davos or the World Economic Forum. You go into MSNBC and to
00:39:45.320
the Lion's Den on a Saturday morning, 5-1-1. Isn't it ironic, on the very eve of one of the most
00:39:51.000
historic weeks in the Supreme Court, where five major administrative state cases will be decided
00:39:56.860
and will get opinions, including the Chevron deference, that you're on there and they're
00:40:01.680
a complete freakout. It's almost like they don't really understand what this Leviathan is. You think
00:40:06.220
that's part of the problem, that they don't, they understand what they've built, but they don't
00:40:10.100
understand how anti-constitutional republic it is, sir? Completely. And they literally, well,
00:40:16.760
not literally, figuratively live in a bubble. They literally live in a social bubble of Washington,
00:40:20.600
D.C. or New York City or the left coast. And therefore, they have lost sight of the fact that
00:40:26.580
it isn't just among American conservatives, Steve. It's also American centrist, even a handful of
00:40:32.260
American liberals who understand that this country is in really bad shape for a lot of reasons.
00:40:37.340
The main reason we argue at Heritage and at Project 2025 it's in bad shape is the precise
00:40:43.080
point that you mentioned, that the everyday American no longer has power over his or her
00:40:48.160
life. And as I tried to suggest on MSNBC this morning, we ought to aspire to every American
00:40:54.860
waking up tomorrow and saying, I at least don't have to worry about the government over-regulating
00:40:59.740
my existence. I don't have to worry about 350 armed agents with the Environmental Protection
00:41:04.580
Agency, just to cite one example of the insidiousness of the administrative state.
00:41:09.800
And we ought to celebrate that across the political spectrum. Here is an opportunity on the brink of
00:41:15.460
these five potentially landmark decisions by the Supreme Court that we get to take our country back.
00:41:21.520
And the final point that I will make, just giving the benefit of the doubt even to our friends and
00:41:27.020
non-friends at MSNBC, is if the political left and the political right and the political center in this
00:41:32.860
country are intellectually honest about wanting to restore civil discord, you and I both are skeptical
00:41:38.640
of that as it relates to the left, then Project 2025 is the answer. This is how we sort of reset the
00:41:44.100
balance between the proper amount of power that the federal government needs to have, but also,
00:41:49.980
most importantly, the power that the people have.
00:41:55.160
Dr. Arbs, I know you're jammed for time. We do want to hold you for the break, just for a couple
00:41:59.340
of the questions, but I got about a minute here. They completely melted down about the ceiling of
00:42:06.000
the border and the mass deportations. In particular, they seem to be, they didn't care about American
00:42:12.280
citizens and crime against American citizens. Is the problem we have here that the left and MSNBC,
00:42:19.220
the New York Times, don't cherish the American citizen, sir?
00:42:23.760
That's exactly right. In fact, I was appalled that Michael Steele, of all people, because of
00:42:29.300
everyone that I talked to this morning at MSNBC, even though I disagree with him now, I'd give him
00:42:33.780
the most benefit of the doubt for prior service to this country. I was appalled that he accused us of
00:42:40.500
using an anecdote, quote unquote, an anecdote, to make a larger point. That anecdote is the human life
00:42:47.640
of a 12-year-old girl in Houston. That anecdote is that college-age young lady in Georgia. That
00:42:54.000
anecdote is now dozens, several dozens of American citizens who've been killed by illegal aliens.
00:43:00.800
And the only way that you can begin to try to make sense of that position that Steele and others are
00:43:05.880
holding is that they simply don't weigh the importance of American citizenship. They really don't care
00:43:12.760
about citizenship. But more importantly, those of us who are middle-aged white Christian conservatives
00:43:19.240
definitely don't count, and we're not allowed to be making an argument like that.
00:43:23.020
Dr. Roberts, hang on for one second. We'll take a short commercial break. We have Dr. Kevin Roberts.
00:43:29.020
Jeff Clark is also going to join us to talk about the week ahead on the administrative state,
00:43:32.780
these landmark decisions. Have you heard of cancer-fighting foods? The American Cancer Society
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00:45:02.840
Dr. Roberts, I just want to make, before we lose you, is that to make sure that, because
00:45:07.240
Project 2025 is, yes, it's one of many, and obviously you guys put in a lot of time and to
00:45:13.060
curate not just policy positions, but also subject matter experts. People could be on the 3,000
00:45:19.900
political appointees and or, you know, if we get rid of, which I advocate, the 8 million contractors at
00:45:27.780
executive administrative level and fill those with our people too, we'll have millions of bills to fill.
00:45:33.020
But Project 2025 is also the single best civics lessons we have out there. If people just go
00:45:38.440
online, if they go to the seminars, all of it doesn't mean that for those of you who say, hey,
00:45:43.140
I can't go join the administration now, it's to actually learn about the administrative state and
00:45:47.960
how to deconstruct it. Where do people go? Because I want to make sure this is a mass
00:45:54.740
Project 2025.org. Project 2025.org. And I just want to underscore what you just said, Steve. Let's say
00:46:01.760
someone is inspired to go participate in this, but they say, Steve, Kevin, I can't, as Kevin likes to
00:46:07.740
say, tithe two or four years to go to D.C., but I want to be part of what I call the second American
00:46:12.920
revolution, hopefully bloodless or no more blood than has been spilled by the left. And what you can
00:46:18.260
do is submit your application. You can go through the training, and what it will do is give you that
00:46:22.420
civics foundation. It'll let you know what's at stake, and it will arm you with details. It will arm you
00:46:27.160
with information. So whether you go into the administration in D.C., or maybe you do something
00:46:32.040
local, like serving on a voluntary council in your town or your county or maybe your state,
00:46:37.900
what we're doing here is building not just for 2025, Steve, but for the next century in the United
00:46:43.820
States. And that's why MSNBC and that history professor have lost their ever-loving minds, because
00:46:50.460
they've never seen the political right be this organized, this focused, this rational about
00:46:56.800
taking power and actually using it appropriately, as the Constitution says.
00:47:03.580
Dr. Roberts, how do they get to that? How do they get to Heritage for all the other stuff you're
00:47:09.040
doing? We're going to have Mike Howe on hopefully early next week on other projects that you guys are
00:47:13.800
fighting nonstop. And how do they get to your social media?
00:47:17.160
Well, once again, project2025.org is the website of the day. But if you're interested in Heritage
00:47:22.660
more broadly, that's heritage.org. You can follow us on XHeritage and Kevin RobertsTX. Thank you so
00:47:29.140
much, Steve, and thank you immensely for your audience. Let me tell you, we've got a lot to do,
00:47:33.340
but we're going to take back this country. We're going to win.
00:47:37.820
Dr. Roberts, thank you so much. Appreciate you.
00:47:41.540
Dr. Kevin Roberts, those are fighters, guys that go to Davos, go to World Economic Forum,
00:47:45.780
stand on the stage, and beat it back right there in the lion's den. It goes on MSNBC on Saturday
00:47:51.020
morning, five on one. Those are the heroes. This is the way you drive this revolution. This is the
00:47:57.880
way you drive this. Another hero is Jeff Clark. Of course, they're trying to take his law license
00:48:03.060
away, bankrupt him, put him in prison. But hey, just another day, just another day in MAGA.
00:48:09.920
Jeff, I got other stuff I want to ask you about Jack Smith and about the gag order,
00:48:13.840
because they're prepping the battlefield for a multiple-year prison sentence for Trump. I'm
00:48:19.980
going to get to that at the top of the hour. Right now, we're on the eve of historic week,
00:48:24.100
sir, in the Supreme Court. Five major administrative state cases, including
00:48:29.520
Chevron deference. We also have the Missouri. We have Fisher, which I think is one of the biggest
00:48:34.560
in American history, in immunity. Walk us through the week ahead, sir.
00:48:38.120
Sure, Steve. First, let me say that it's a great honor to follow President Kevin Roberts
00:48:45.000
of Heritage. And I got to say that the meltdown on MSNBC was epic. And to me, the funniest part
00:48:51.480
of it was the wide shot showing Michael Steele just flipping through pages frantically, like,
00:48:57.000
surely I'll be able to come up with something in here to refute Dr. Roberts. But he's not up
00:49:02.720
to that task. It was amusing. So look, we're looking at, you know, the end of the blockbuster
00:49:08.740
October 2023 term in the next week, you know, week and a half. And let me start with the Chevron
00:49:16.620
cases, because one of the topics you talked to President Roberts about was, you know, the MSNBC
00:49:22.800
meltdown about, you know, or CNN meltdown with that Ruth Ben-Guiat about the Commerce Department
00:49:29.360
being dismantled. Well, actually, it turns out that these two big Chevron cases, they're called
00:49:34.900
Relentless and Loper Bright, are about the Commerce Department. And I think most people don't understand
00:49:40.180
that the Commerce Department actually is largely an environmental agency. And that's what's involved
00:49:45.640
in these two cases, the parts of the Commerce Department that regulate fishing. And the way I
00:49:51.240
characterize these cases is that they're challenges by ordinary fishermen to having to pay for their own
00:49:57.140
chains. We have a situation where, you know, there are limits on catching the fish, right? Because
00:50:02.840
it's a limited natural resource. But instead of the government sort of telling you that, you know,
00:50:09.380
they're going to send you monitors so that they can try to monitor it, or they're going to send out
00:50:12.940
monitors like physical people to check what you're catching, they're telling you, you got to put the
00:50:17.540
monitors on and you have to pay for them yourself. And so, you know, these ordinary fishermen had enough
00:50:24.500
and, you know, they brought the biggest administrative law set of cases in many years since the 80s when
00:50:31.020
the Chevron Doctrine was adopted. And what is the Chevron Doctrine? It's at the heart of the
00:50:36.300
administrative state. Because it says not only do you, are courts supposed to defer to what agencies
00:50:45.040
say their statutes mean when Congress specifically delegates that power to them, but if Congress just
00:50:51.280
remains silent, the courts in Chevron have held that there's an implicit delegation to the agencies.
00:50:57.120
So imagine there's nobody in Congress who oftentimes even voted for these delegations,
00:51:01.960
yet the Supreme Court in this decision, which, you know, hopefully is going to get either,
00:51:07.560
you know, reined in or ended this coming week or so, you know, they adopted this idea of you can
00:51:13.860
infer massive government power inside this fourth branch of government based merely on silence. It's
00:51:19.820
truly a remarkable proposition. And it's amazing that it's lasted this long, what, about 40 years at
00:51:25.480
this point. So the Fisher case is also, go ahead, Steve.
00:51:31.140
I'll tell you what, hang over a second, because I want to take these and I want to make sure we go
00:51:35.340
through and do them justice. Real quickly on the deference. The deference defers to the agency,
00:51:42.600
but it also defers to the agency for understanding versus the company, right? I mean, it's almost
00:51:48.000
anti, I'm not saying capitalist, it's anti-free enterprise, because isn't the deference always to
00:51:55.300
the regulatory power? Is that how to understand it? That's right. You know, if you're a private
00:52:01.800
party and you're regulated, you don't get any deference in saying, well, look, I've had to deal
00:52:06.020
with these regulations for years. I've gotten pretty expert in them. It's only the government in a
00:52:10.360
one-way ratchet that gets to interpret them. And look, it's gotten to the point under Democrat
00:52:15.140
administrations where they don't even really look at the text of the statute, I'm convinced. What
00:52:19.480
they do is they adopt a policy they want, and then they backwards engineer it to say that they
00:52:28.840
Jeff, hang on for a second. It's a 90-second break. We've got a lot more to go through.
00:52:32.640
We're absolutely jammed today. We are going to get it all done.
00:52:35.620
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