Bannon's War Room - July 09, 2026


Episode 5504： Day 4 Of The Charlie Kirk Assassination Trial


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 2 minutes

Words per minute

131.9

Word count

8,241

Sentence count

461

Harmful content

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

21

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Stephen K. Vann and Alex Blumberg join me in the War Room to discuss the latest in the ongoing crisis between the United States and Turkey. President Trump and Prime Minister Binali Yavu Yavut Cagaptay have a tense exchange of words over the situation in the Middle East, and the question of whether or not Turkey should pull out of Cyprus.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
00:00:07.480 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.
00:00:12.700 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.
00:00:16.960 The people have had a belly full of it.
00:00:18.880 I know you don't like hearing that.
00:00:20.320 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,
00:00:22.060 but you're not going to stop it.
00:00:23.000 It's going to happen.
00:00:24.260 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?
00:00:27.660 Mega Media.
00:00:28.560 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
00:00:34.440 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
00:00:38.200 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:00:44.580 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Vann.
00:00:50.100 Okay, Thursday, 9 July in the year of our Lord, 2026.
00:00:54.060 We're going to go to Provo as soon as it starts.
00:00:56.960 You're here at Gavel to Gavel.
00:00:58.560 Um, Posobics, I guess they're, they're going to run a little late this morning.
00:01:02.600 So we're going to go as soon as, uh, as soon as it goes.
00:01:06.180 Andy, one of my crack producers is reached out to me during your segment and says, Hey,
00:01:10.360 look, would the Greeks take and support a, uh, the Turks get the F 35s, but you got to 0.72
00:01:17.940 pull out a Cyprus.
00:01:19.140 Is that a deal you guys would support?
00:01:21.060 And is that, is that even something?
00:01:22.300 Cause look, you mentioned about the Ottoman empire. 0.97
00:01:24.560 Trust me, the Turks look back at that and think that's the glory days.
00:01:27.780 They don't want to hear – that's when they were top of the world, and they want Mecca and Medina.
00:01:33.880 They want to be in control of it again, the two holy sites. 0.88
00:01:36.140 They think the House of Saud is kind of a group of Bedouin bandits.
00:01:41.340 Sir, your thoughts?
00:01:43.360 So one, President Trump is great at negotiating and leverage.
00:01:49.340 He has a leverage.
00:01:50.340 He has something Turkey wants.
00:01:52.860 Turkey, Greece, and Cyprus, Greece is formerly an ally of Turkey in NATO.
00:01:59.380 Cyprus is an EU member that has to sign off on Turkey's membership.
00:02:04.440 So they clearly want good relations.
00:02:07.540 So let's call them on it.
00:02:08.900 Yes, it's not only they should pull completely out of Cyprus, completely.
00:02:12.820 There is no reasoning.
00:02:14.760 If Turkey wants to be a good ally, take those 40,000 occupation troops that you're using
00:02:20.000 on Cyprus and have them fight true jihadists, which they did not do during ISIS's rise.
00:02:28.540 And if they want to be an ally, if they want to be an ally with access, let's remember,
00:02:34.800 access to American weapons is a privilege. It's not a right. I don't care what your status is.
00:02:40.080 It's not a right. It's a privilege. And if they want to earn that privilege,
00:02:44.020 they cannot use those weapons within the alliance against American allies.
00:02:48.300 Turkey has pre-declared war on Greece. They have a causus belli threatening Greece with war if
00:02:56.500 Greece exercises its rights on their international law. President Trump should demand the cancellation
00:03:01.880 of that causus belli. He should demand the cancellation of this blue homeland doctrine,
00:03:06.520 which Turkey, in the greatest fictional geometry I've ever seen, claims that half the Aegean
00:03:17.260 And half the eastern Mediterranean belongs to it.
00:03:20.340 It ignores the existence of Crete, which we have the southernmost NATO base on Crete.
00:03:29.320 It ignores the existence of American rights, Exxon and Chevron in the waters of Greece and Cyprus.
00:03:38.500 So those three pull out of Cyprus, cancel the causes belly, cancel the blue homeland. 0.59
00:03:43.780 And I think a deal could be made. 0.98
00:03:45.020 are we not thinking about this you've got you've got these ancient civilizations the turks which
00:03:51.060 obviously came from the steppes you have persia you have egypt you've got ancient babylon we got
00:03:57.200 the greeks do we not think and should we get back to thinking this strategically as kind of
00:04:01.840 civilizational warfare and we're not we're so caught up in the daily news that we lose the sense
00:04:06.500 that these almost permanent uh structures and processes and uh in societies they all work at a
00:04:16.340 different tempo they all have and and if you talk to persians you talk to egyptians talk to turks
00:04:21.020 one thing i will tell you in greeks they will they will go back and reference things from thousands
00:04:25.440 of years ago like it happened yesterday in america is it too much we're caught up in a new cycle and
00:04:31.540 And that's why the power of this 250th and the, you know, what led us here and what we're trying to do on this show to make sure people know, hey, we have ancient roots, too.
00:04:41.360 Maybe not as ancient.
00:04:42.360 You know, she, you know, gave President Trump really the back of the hand in Beijing where he gave the toast and said, hey, we, you know, we're 5,000 years.
00:04:50.140 We hope this 250, we congratulate you on your 250, kid.
00:04:53.380 We hope it works out for you, right?
00:04:55.320 Like you're a junior partner.
00:04:57.180 Are we not thinking enough about civilizational warfare here?
00:04:59.880 Well, we should be because I think in the United States, and you correctly reference our founding fathers basing this republic on the ancient West, the U.S. is more the heir to ancient Greece and ancient Rome than anybody, including Greece and Italy.
00:05:20.220 uh the the fact is that people do reference past grievances uh but some of those past
00:05:30.460 grievances are not just past or prologue when we talk about the genocides the legacy of the
00:05:36.540 genocides uh the christian genocides at the ottoman empire in the early turkish republic
00:05:41.880 perpetrated exists today. Cyprus is occupied for more than 50 years. It'll be 52 in 11 days.
00:05:56.900 But the legacy of that going on to six decade occupation affects us today. So we should be
00:06:07.000 looking, we should be paying attention to those who are using civilization warfare. Erdogan is. 0.51
00:06:15.300 There are other leaders in Turkey, and there are a lot of secular Turks and Western-leaning Turks
00:06:20.920 who don't do that. But we should not be rewarding the ones who, Dayatollahs, whoever else, who are 0.77
00:06:28.260 leaning into civilizational warfare and getting us involved in conflicts to score some holy text
00:06:36.660 points under some holy text hang on for one second we'll talk uh we talk about uh civilizational
00:06:43.540 warfare the civilization of the west under attack let's go and play the uh uh the trailer for this
00:06:49.060 you know hundreds of millions of dollar film that's coming to imax i think next week let's go
00:06:54.040 I'm going to play it.
00:06:59.040 Odysseus.
00:07:05.040 Don't you remember?
00:07:14.040 Thunder.
00:07:18.040 Fire.
00:07:19.040 death
00:07:23.040 and remember
00:07:27.560 a wife
00:07:29.420 a son 0.99
00:07:32.960 home
00:07:35.820 death is a kingdom waiting for a king
00:07:44.120 my dad is coming home
00:07:50.040 They're pining for a daddy he didn't even know. 1.00
00:07:54.040 Like some sniffling bastard. 1.00
00:07:58.040 Ithaca's king is coming back. 1.00
00:08:01.040 Bringing vengeance.
00:08:15.040 Bringing it all.
00:08:19.040 I could take this room.
00:08:25.040 They're not giving up power to you or Odysseus.
00:08:31.040 Do you think life goes back to the way it was?
00:08:35.040 That world is gone. 1.00
00:08:40.040 If he returned, he'd have to kill him like you will. 1.00
00:08:46.040 Let's go! 1.00
00:08:47.040 you gods don't speak in ways we understand
00:08:50.820 who doesn't understand pain
00:08:54.460 or blood the gods told you then i defy the gods
00:09:01.220 so endy this is the most anticipated
00:09:16.260 epic of the uh of the summer and probably this year um it deals with the the great general
00:09:22.400 odysseus or ulysses in his journey home at the end of the trojan war which he was a
00:09:27.480 major part of the strategy particularly at the end of how to get to victory um but what they
00:09:33.140 don't show there is the controversy the woke nature of some of the casting and some of the
00:09:38.560 language that's used and some of the the reinterpretation of this your your thoughts
00:09:43.280 as a gentleman and a scholar, sir?
00:09:46.580 Yeah, I mean, it goes back to our discussion about the books, right?
00:09:52.420 We have the original source material.
00:09:54.220 I don't think we should be dumbing down.
00:09:56.520 And it is disappointing to hear that maybe some casting decisions were made
00:10:04.520 based on identity features so they can qualify for an Oscar.
00:10:13.280 And it turns out that the casting decision or who was going to play Achilles, that turned out to be incorrect of playing another Greek soldier.
00:10:29.980 But just think about Achilles.
00:10:31.520 You know, you talk about Emily Wilson and the Iliad begins with Singaris of the Rage of Achilles.
00:10:36.620 uh incidentally i thought you know um brad pitt did a great job in in troy uh homer teaches us
00:10:46.420 more about just a story these these epics are teaching us about human human nature and some
00:10:53.400 timeless wisdom so i i'd like that we you know i have no problem with i i love the kitty pride
00:11:01.300 character of of ellen page but if i was going to pick uh within x-men but if i was going to pick
00:11:06.980 a greek warrior from x-men it'd probably be hugh jackman's wolverine uh i i i'm a little more
00:11:14.080 upset that there are no greeks cast in here matt damon's not greek i love matt damon i i love mad
00:11:19.880 damon i would i would actually bring in the whole oceans 11 i'm not a i am george cloney
00:11:24.720 I'm so not a Matt Damon or Clint, but however, let's go to that point.
00:11:30.480 I don't think that, are there any Greeks cast in this, particularly of the warrior, of the generals, the field commanders of Agamemnon?
00:11:38.200 Are there any Greeks?
00:11:38.920 There weren't any Greeks in this.
00:11:41.820 There weren't any Greeks in the 300.
00:11:43.680 And I think that's a missed opportunity by Christopher Nolan, especially as Greece has, over the last decade, become a destination for Hollywood.
00:12:03.840 And it used to be far more restrictive.
00:12:07.440 Are you are you saying that Nolan was forced to do this because of the Academy considerations that we have to be woke with your casting?
00:12:14.740 And because there's a I think there's a black woman that's that is cast, I believe, is Helena Troy.
00:12:20.120 But more importantly, either Elliot Page or Ellen Page, Ellen Page in the world.
00:12:24.020 But you guys call her call them what you want.
00:12:26.980 You know, the little girl that was in Juneau, it's now it was rumored she was going to be Achilles.
00:12:31.760 but now i guess she's one of the other warriors but she still plays a greek warrior because of
00:12:37.740 this this um this affinity hollywood has for promoting transgenderism is that is that an
00:12:43.820 affront to the greek people since this is the great classic to the two great classics of greek 0.90
00:12:49.260 civilization that has been handed down along with uh the the holy bible and along with the
00:12:55.620 aeneid and others as the great traditions of the uh of the christian west listen we we have the
00:13:03.300 source material right there's there is an importance to be consistent with the source
00:13:07.700 material like i don't know the exact warrior she's playing and we know that in greece there were
00:13:13.140 uh homosexual warriors the thebes had the sacred band uh but if if achilles was going
00:13:20.820 to be portrayed it should be portrayed with this the rage that homer uh talks about uh i don't know
00:13:30.200 which casting speculation is true or not so i'll wait to to see the movie but the speculation that
00:13:36.700 in the attempt to get an oscar they're going to cast uh they're going to take certain standards
00:13:43.260 for casting is disappointing we have an opportunity to tell we have an opportunity to tell the story
00:13:49.380 This is not about homosexuality.
00:13:51.960 I mean, you've got Alcibiades, right, and Plato and the Symposium.
00:13:56.680 I mean, and they talk about the different types of love.
00:13:59.040 And, of course, with Sparta, they had different traditions back then.
00:14:02.520 But this is not that.
00:14:04.920 This is that you can be anything.
00:14:06.320 Anyway, Andy, hang on for one second.
00:14:08.120 I want to finish up with you while we're waiting for the court to begin in Provo, Utah.
00:14:14.160 Think about it, folks.
00:14:15.300 We're discussing this here about the Odyssey.
00:14:19.560 It's a big part of the conversation.
00:14:21.240 Like I said, I never thought that the great Charlie Kirk would ever have the phrase,
00:14:26.200 the great Charlie Kirk assassination, and a love story among grown men who are furries.
00:14:34.920 I mean, it boggles the mind.
00:14:37.760 It just boggles the mind. 1.00
00:14:39.240 Grown men. 0.57
00:14:40.500 Short commercial break.
00:14:41.340 Back in the warm in a moment.
00:14:45.300 What about Lake and Riley?
00:14:48.620 It's Charlie too hard to say.
00:14:52.460 What about when you took your shot at the one you called a game?
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00:16:43.600 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Vance.
00:16:48.680 Andy, before you let me go, tell us about the council. Tell us what you guys do. Are you going
00:16:52.880 to, for instance, protest? No Greeks in the... I can't believe that. I'm actually... So you know 1.00
00:16:59.460 What I'm going to do, if they want to keep Greeks out, I love Phil Hellenes, the lovers of Greeks, so you're one.
00:17:08.380 So we're going to try to get you cast as a god in the follow-up and boil, and we're going to get Matthew Boyle as Hermes. 0.94
00:17:19.000 Okay, no, we don't need, we don't, yeah, if you're going to do nine Greeks, let's get a bunch of mix, let's get a bunch of hammerhead mix in there.
00:17:25.700 No, what we do at the Hellenic American Leadership Council, Steve, we are going again back to our founding fathers. We're dedicated to the idea that this bilateral relationship, which is more than a government to government relationship, it's the people. The people have been close.
00:17:43.460 The founding fathers did not only – were they not only influenced by ancient Greeks, they influenced the first modern Greek state.
00:17:53.180 Thomas Jefferson and Adamantios Corais, the founder of the modern Greek education system, had letters back and forth.
00:18:02.460 We can go on.
00:18:05.280 Americans went and fought in the Greek War of Independence against the Ottoman Empire and died.
00:18:13.460 and really made a decisive contribution.
00:18:19.060 Greece, October 28th, Greece, you know,
00:18:22.500 is the only country in the world that celebrates its entry into World War II.
00:18:27.580 They gave the first major resistance, the first defeat to the Axis powers.
00:18:34.340 And FDR and even Stalin said that if the Greeks had not done that,
00:18:39.660 the outcome of World War II might have been different.
00:18:43.180 and the U.S. helped rebuild Greece after a brutal Nazi occupation. The two peoples, Greek Americans,
00:18:51.020 have made countless contributions to the United States. And right now, across all levels, this is
00:18:58.460 the best relationship we've ever had. Greece is a reliable ally. Everything that the U.S.,
00:19:04.460 that we say we want out of an ally, access to bases, NATO spending, cracking down on terrorism,
00:19:14.820 business friendly, that has been a huge transformation. Chevron and Exxon and GE
00:19:20.860 and American companies are thriving. Oracle and Microsoft are opening up Southeast European
00:19:28.040 headquarters in Thessaloniki. So we really believe the closer we can make not only Washington and
00:19:37.600 Athens, but Chicago and Thessaloniki and the people and the students. And we've had an NBA
00:19:45.180 MVP from Greece, Giannis Antetokounmpo. And we've had American players who are the stars of
00:19:52.940 uh greece's basketball teams and greece's basketball uh team olympiakos which i'm a big
00:19:59.180 fan i just won the euro final four so the closer we can bring our people and i think you're right
00:20:05.180 the classics are part of it uh tourism is at a record high investments are in record high the
00:20:11.660 closer we bring our two people the more our national interests and the west uh benefit yeah
00:20:18.780 Yeah. You know, I'm honored to be a close friend of Barracks, but also Kimberly Guilford.
00:20:26.160 And when Kimberly had a range of opportunities she was looking at, I was the biggest advocate.
00:20:30.920 You got to take Greece. If Greece is available, you got to take it. It's strategic.
00:20:34.140 It punches way above its weight. But more importantly, I said that Eastern Mediterranean is going to be one of the big areas of focus.
00:20:41.220 If we're ever going to have peace anywhere, you have to start with that.
00:20:46.240 and she's done a terrific job
00:20:48.940 and I know she absolutely loves the job
00:20:50.460 and it also shows you the importance.
00:20:52.140 She had many other opportunities to choose from
00:20:54.700 but President Trump really wanted her there
00:20:56.340 so that speaks of the focus of President Trump
00:20:59.340 and like I said, I don't think the relationship's
00:21:01.440 ever been better.
00:21:02.360 Boyle's over there all the time.
00:21:04.140 We have big news we're going to announce
00:21:05.740 I think of something we're going to do in the region
00:21:08.140 probably in September sometime
00:21:11.240 but we'll come back to the audience
00:21:12.500 in the next couple of days.
00:21:13.880 Where do folks go to find out more?
00:21:16.240 And most importantly, to get your reading list.
00:21:20.780 And anything you want to push out, we'll push out here.
00:21:24.280 So where do folks go?
00:21:26.040 Well, okay, I'll start putting out reading lists on my X handle, which is at Zemanitas.
00:21:34.140 And, you know, they can always go to our site, hellenicleaders.com, to learn more about the issues.
00:21:43.920 But I really do think on America's 250th anniversary, if we recommit to this historic relationship between the peoples, the American nation, the Greek nation, and the timeless wisdom that has come from both, we'll be better off.
00:22:03.060 And let's not forget, because you brought it up, let's not forget that in 11 days, we are marking the 52nd straight year of the Turkish occupation of Cyprus.
00:22:15.860 And as people talk about occupations, whether it's in Ukraine or in the Middle East, one of the reasons we have some of these wars is we let perpetrators of crimes like Cyprus get away with it for more than five decades.
00:22:29.960 uh andy thank you so much appreciate you coming on thank you sir everybody goes over
00:22:37.300 thank you boy boiled delivered on that one that was amazing fascinating um
00:22:43.140 want to thanks we get so much to go through there's um
00:22:47.320 one of the um most important things let's talk signal not noise it's because there's so much
00:22:55.260 noise out there right now the effort of john solomon and pulte and these others that are
00:23:00.960 working towards getting uh you know they're there for declassification but get to the bottom
00:23:05.580 of the stolen election of 2020 and um other aspects of that they're beavering away and of
00:23:15.380 course the um the left is is losing it right now you just have to understand if they can't steal it
00:23:22.280 they can't win the demographic shift this is the shift to the south and the southwest and even the
00:23:29.680 intermountain west of people uh moving to us and particularly my beloved south they're they're
00:23:36.440 pouring into the south and people got to watch that are you going to lose what makes the south
00:23:41.320 so special they just announced i think in a couple of days they're going to launch
00:23:46.040 the Texas Stock Exchange down in Dallas.
00:23:49.920 It's just like Elon moving down to Brownsville
00:23:54.620 or Austin becoming a tech center.
00:23:59.100 As I say, that old saying,
00:24:01.060 there are more tears shed for answered prayers
00:24:03.820 than for unanswered.
00:24:06.580 So watch what you pray for and watch what you want
00:24:09.240 because to say it in the vernacular of the South, 1.00
00:24:14.320 You're going to get just a bunch of Yankees down there 0.97
00:24:16.660 that want to change everything. 0.65
00:24:17.920 It's like California came to Texas.
00:24:19.700 So you just got to watch this.
00:24:21.420 That being said, the growth is explosive.
00:24:25.080 And you can see that from Tennessee to Alabama
00:24:27.780 to Mississippi to Georgia, Florida, Texas, Arkansas.
00:24:32.900 I mean, this is where companies want to go.
00:24:34.460 This is why.
00:24:36.180 I think it's the people, not just the natural resources
00:24:39.700 and the beauty of the South, but it's the people.
00:24:41.600 they're also flooding into places like arizona in the inner mountain west of course there are
00:24:47.200 many southerners there post-civil war right and the other migrations we've had in the country
00:24:52.600 this is why these demographic shifts and these shifts are taking place and we would have been
00:24:58.100 here quicker if stephen miller and stephen k bannon's plan for the 2020 census had been
00:25:04.000 executed by the commas part it was not and once again president trump got terrible information
00:25:08.540 and we made a bad decision that's a bad decision so that's that census because we allowed illegal 0.77
00:25:15.600 aliens to be counted which should never happen should never happen that's all from the people 0.74
00:25:21.720 who are the new john c calhoun's the nullification project which they just nullify any federal law 0.95
00:25:27.560 that does not support their efforts to destroy this country and this is why you have to meet
00:25:35.000 you have to meet fire with fire we have to move with alacrity this is my issue with john thune
00:25:41.660 and these in these folks in the senate the united states senate right now controlled by republicans
00:25:46.840 is treating president trump with no respect and treat him like a lame duck we say well steve
00:25:53.220 that's pretty harsh okay to to prove that you're not just take one day of official recess don't
00:25:59.820 send the kabuki theater over for one guy to sit up there and say we're in session when they got
00:26:04.720 one senator in town and nothing's happening. You're gone for 10 or 15 days. Give President
00:26:08.720 Trump one day. Why won't they do that? Mitch McConnell
00:26:12.620 decreed and declared back in the first term when President Trump
00:26:16.640 and Mitch McConnell would have never been in power if it was not for President Trump. This was
00:26:20.740 the arrogance of McCain. Remember McCain came back off his deathbed
00:26:25.040 to in the middle of the night, screw President Trump on that first
00:26:28.620 big effort he had to take care of Obamacare. Remember that?
00:26:32.140 that's the arrogance the senate and the leadership in the senate they hate trump
00:26:37.240 they can come out to the microphone and do all the you know glazing they want it's an open secret
00:26:42.860 in this town they hate him it's an open secret of how they plot against him and to stop the
00:26:48.980 agenda from going through i might add that because of the house incompetence and the senate
00:26:56.260 incompetence would just take your number two personal and write this down we're going to a
00:27:00.340 CR. I don't know when they get back from recess sometime in September. Going to a CR that we're
00:27:05.480 going to approve the Pelosi-Biden thing one more time because they haven't done, forget the single
00:27:11.740 subject, they haven't done the appropriations, but I think they've still done military construction
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00:31:34.480 Good morning.
00:31:58.840 Thank you for the party's patience.
00:32:00.320 The court is now in session.
00:32:03.000 Calling case number 251-403-576, State of Utah v. Tyler James Robinson.
00:32:10.840 Counsel, please enter your appearances.
00:32:15.940 Chad Grunender, Ryan McBride, Lauren Hunt, David Sturgill, Chris Ballard for the state.
00:32:22.240 County Attorney Jeff Gray, also present.
00:32:24.660 Good morning.
00:32:32.180 Good morning, Your Honor. Kathy Nestor, Richard Novak, Michael Burt, and Stacey Visser here for Mr. Robinson, who's seated at council table.
00:32:40.320 Good morning. Good morning.
00:32:43.120 Good morning, Mr. Robinson. And for the record, the court also recognizes the presence of Ms. Erica Kirk.
00:32:51.780 Sorry. Good morning, Ms. Kirk.
00:32:53.660 all right as you probably come to expect i do need to read the following as it relates to
00:33:06.520 today's preliminary hearing the court is mindful of the safety and well-being of all parties
00:33:11.780 counsel witnesses court staff and members of the public who may be present the court is also
00:33:17.320 mindful of its duty to protect and uphold the constitutional rights of both mr robinson and
00:33:22.580 miss kirk to serve those important interests the court reminds all persons who will be in
00:33:26.860 attendance that portable electronic devices will not be permitted in the courtroom or on the fourth
00:33:33.220 floor and this prohibition does not apply to legal counsel and support staff for the defense
00:33:40.820 or the state or the media in this manner or the equipment permitted under any electronic
00:33:47.880 and controlling electronic media coverage order
00:33:51.340 and includes the Council for Victim Representative, Ms. Kirk.
00:33:57.160 I do ask the parties, the attorneys,
00:33:59.760 if you will join me in turning off your ringer
00:34:03.520 to ensure that we do not have any eruptions.
00:34:06.320 So I am turning off my ringer, and I invite you to do the same.
00:34:13.980 Every person who is in attendance today and every day
00:34:17.360 will be afforded the dignity and respect due to them and pursuant to the standing decorum order
00:34:26.360 by the court all spectators shall be quiet civil and orderly spectators shall not engage in any
00:34:32.380 distracting disruptive provocative disrespectful uncivil or threatening behavior of any kind
00:34:38.760 spectators shall not make any audible comments of any kind shall not shake or nod their heads
00:34:45.600 shall not otherwise make any gestures during the hearing.
00:34:49.440 Spectators shall not wear or display pins, buttons, signs, clothing,
00:34:54.600 or photographs expressing support for or against any person related to this case
00:34:59.880 or to the status of this case as a capital offense.
00:35:07.500 All right.
00:35:08.460 as we begin this morning i wish to
00:35:15.420 i've taken a lot of time to think about the comments made by the parties yesterday uh and
00:35:24.960 and i and there were additional briefings and a motion filed uh last night and the court took
00:35:33.280 the necessary time to readdress it and look at it and be prepared for this morning's proceedings
00:35:39.540 while i recognize especially how precious our time is i also recognize that i need to be prepared
00:35:48.500 for everything that's before me and i took the time this morning to review what was filed since
00:35:56.680 we adjourned yesterday until we've came back on record one of the motions filed last night was
00:36:04.060 filed by miss erica kirk's attorney and i wish to address that and i realize that the parties may
00:36:14.280 not have had a chance for defense or prosecution had a chance to respond to that uh and and before
00:36:22.060 I address that, I wish to turn the time to you if you need the benefit of the record
00:36:28.180 as it relates to what was filed by the attorney for victim representative Erica Kirk to this
00:36:35.300 state.
00:36:44.140 Good morning, Your Honor, Christopher Ballard on behalf of the state.
00:36:46.980 We have reviewed that filing, and we believe that it fully accords with our position in our filing this morning that publishing exhibits to the courtroom is entirely appropriate and indeed honors the victim representative's right to be present at this hearing.
00:37:09.080 Thank you, Mr. Ballard.
00:37:10.940 To defense, Mr. Novak.
00:37:12.940 Thank you, Your Honor.
00:37:17.400 I read the pleading.
00:37:19.860 I believe that every order that this court has made to date complies with and respects the victim's rights under the Utah Constitution.
00:37:32.220 I think that the rulings that the court has made the last few days do so.
00:37:35.880 And I don't believe that the issues that are presently before the court going forward with the hearing with respect to exhibits in what I'll just call the 16 series interfere with any of the enumerated rights set forth in the Utah Constitution concerning the rights of a victim representative in any criminal proceeding.
00:38:04.560 So that's our position.
00:38:06.700 And I want to also be very mindful of timing issues
00:38:11.480 because we spent a lot of time arguing
00:38:13.280 without the court having the benefit of briefing yesterday.
00:38:18.340 But we have witnesses we have to get to,
00:38:20.280 including a defense witness who is not available after tonight.
00:38:23.740 So I could, of course, as Your Honor knows, say much more.
00:38:29.220 But the court has all the briefing, and I think we should move forward.
00:38:32.700 Thank you.
00:38:33.680 And as it relates to transparency and publication, does the news media wish to be heard on this issue?
00:38:46.100 Only briefly, Your Honor. I've also reviewed the submission from yesterday.
00:38:53.700 The court has always set this three-step process, and I think taking each of those stages,
00:38:58.420 Admissibility, publication to the courtroom, and coverage by the in-court cameras are three separate inquiries.
00:39:08.100 Of course, the media believes, the media will be the party who stands here at this lectern and says,
00:39:15.140 we believe we should see as much as possible.
00:39:17.820 Maximalist in that way, while recognizing the importance of protecting all the rights, including fair trial rights.
00:39:24.080 But the idea of keeping something off of the cameras at the rear of the courtroom but publishing it to those who are present here also is a meaningful step towards transparency.
00:39:36.080 And to the extent that the court is not comfortable with placing something on the video feed,
00:39:40.080 the media does believe that allowing the media representatives who are here and the members of the public who are here to view that,
00:39:47.080 even if those watching on the live stream cannot, is a meaningful victory for transparency and we of course support that.
00:39:53.080 support that thank you all right for all right so I want to address the the
00:40:07.960 motion filed by the attorney for the victim representative and then we'll
00:40:13.960 move transition to that I'm just trying to do it incrementally so we can get it
00:40:17.500 all addressed so in regards to that and i appreciate the position of the parties it is
00:40:24.760 important for me to hear all sides article 1 section 28 of the utah constitution recognizes
00:40:32.900 important rights afforded to victims and victims representatives including the right to be treated
00:40:38.640 with fairness respect and dignity and the right to be present and heard at critical stages of the
00:40:45.860 proceedings the court acknowledges the concerns raised in the motion regarding transparency
00:40:51.460 and the ability to meaningfully observe the evidence presented during this hearing at the
00:40:58.040 same time the court has an independent obligation to manage these proceedings in a manner that
00:41:03.260 safeguards the rights of all parties that includes honoring the rights of victims and victims
00:41:09.760 representatives while preserving the defendant's constitutional rights including the right to a
00:41:15.680 fair and impartial process the court has considered the request that exhibits be displayed in real
00:41:21.880 time to the courtroom after careful consideration the court determines that not all exhibits will
00:41:28.320 be visually displayed to the gallery and notes that it will use a tiered method as described
00:41:35.720 first whether it will be admitted to the court for consideration as it relates to probable cause
00:41:41.800 Second, whether it will be displayed only to the gallery.
00:41:46.060 And third, if it will be published through the camera to the public at large.
00:41:55.640 This ruling is not intended to diminish the significance of the victim's representative rights or concerns.
00:42:01.860 Rather, it reflects the court's responsibility to regulate the presentation of evidence in a manner consistent with the integrity of the proceedings and the fair trial rights implicated in this manner.
00:42:14.680 The manner in which evidence is displayed remains in the court's discretion.
00:42:21.180 That discretion must be exercised in a manner that is appropriate and appropriately balances Ms. Robinson's constitutional rights.
00:42:30.040 i'm sorry mr robinson's constitutional rights miss kirk's rights as a victim representative
00:42:35.980 and the court's obligation to conduct the proceedings that are fair orderly and
00:42:41.500 appropriately transparent transparency is an important principle but it must be maintained
00:42:47.760 in a manner consistent with the constitutional rights and protections afforded to all parties
00:42:53.400 the court does not make a blanket ruling as it relates to any exhibit and as previously stated
00:42:59.580 each exhibit will be afforded its own due in weighing whether it shall be published to the
00:43:06.340 courtroom or beyond or not. And that concludes the court's ruling on that motion. All right,
00:43:14.420 counsel, the last matter as it relates to the briefing, I'll hear that and there is a slight
00:43:24.140 edit to, and I'm not sure when
00:43:27.320 the state wishes to publish State's Exhibit 16. So turning
00:43:32.160 to the state, do you wish to be heard about
00:43:35.200 the motions filed last night prior to the publication
00:43:39.960 of Exhibit 16? Again, it's your choice on how you move
00:43:44.140 forward. I just want to see which order you want to go.
00:43:48.220 We do want to be heard on the briefing from last night and
00:43:51.980 specifically about exhibit 16 i'm understanding your honor has an additional uh edit to that
00:43:58.800 i do and there might be value in hearing that so that may or may not change your positions
00:44:03.500 uh so let me just put that on the record and then i'll hear from you i just want to make sure you're
00:44:08.880 able to be afforded everything so as it relates to the the edits um
00:44:15.640 last night i believe it was between six minutes and 57 seconds and 20 minutes and 29 seconds
00:44:25.600 which is not to be played and then 32 minutes and 55 seconds to 35 minutes and 47 seconds which
00:44:35.120 is not to be played and i believe that what i received reflects that and does that is that
00:44:40.520 the understanding of the parties yes all right the state has said yes to the defense
00:44:46.780 i'm not saying if you agree with it i'm just saying does it reflect
00:44:52.900 the time stamps absolutely
00:45:10.520 Go ahead, Judge.
00:45:18.560 I think, Your Honor, and then let's just see what the court is referring to.
00:45:24.360 Well, I'm asking, did you receive a copy of the edited video?
00:45:28.640 Okay, so I'll answer that question directly.
00:45:31.120 The state sent us a copy of the edited video.
00:45:34.080 The redactions of the audio were exactly as the court ordered,
00:45:38.200 but we noticed that the video which followed ended up being inconsistent with the redactions of the audio.
00:45:46.260 So I brought that to the state's attention last night.
00:45:49.240 I believe that they ultimately forwarded to the court what I'll call version two of the redactions,
00:45:56.160 which redacts the video that would have made the audio redactions sort of superfluous or ineffective.
00:46:06.740 So that's sort of where we are.
00:46:09.460 But we may be not communicating with each other about the same issue.
00:46:13.760 I'm not sure.
00:46:14.640 Well, I just want to make sure that in regards to what was to be cut out comports with those timestamps I just gave.
00:46:22.680 It does.
00:46:23.260 Plus, the parties believe that additional video needed to be cut out to match the court's intentions with respect to the audio.
00:46:31.480 Right.
00:46:31.920 And this is what I'm going to next.
00:46:34.120 Mr. Ballard?
00:46:35.480 Yes, Your Honor.
00:46:36.100 I think we're on the same page.
00:46:37.760 We did, in conjunction with discussions with the defense, prepare.
00:46:42.300 First of all, we prepared the redacted video as your honor ordered.
00:46:47.400 Then after discussing with the defense, we prepared a second version that still maintained the audio redactions as the court ordered,
00:46:57.040 but we took out the video portions that the defense brought to our attention.
00:47:02.220 All right.
00:47:02.940 And I didn't see that, but here, and this is the court's own independent finding
00:47:08.580 after spending significant time last night reviewing it.
00:47:12.680 So I'm requesting a video-only redaction between 20 minutes and 29 seconds
00:47:18.320 and 25 minutes and 23 seconds.
00:47:21.900 And so what I looked at was what was on screen.
00:47:26.220 So any video showing anything other than Mr. McBride and Lance Twiggs was to be redacted with the exception of the screenshots of the images pulled from the surveillance video and the FBI bulletin, which I believe was also briefly displayed.
00:47:54.680 I think we're all on the same page.
00:47:57.280 It's not what the court just said.
00:48:09.980 Your Honor, I think we have just a one-second difference.
00:48:13.900 Our timestamp is 25-22 of the additional edited version,
00:48:18.260 but i think it still omits uh the video portion that that we're discussing all right well
00:48:26.560 it's a good day when we are literally on the same page i i'm glad that within one second
00:48:32.260 we are all in agreeance agreement about this so that the court and it sounds like you're one step
00:48:38.740 ahead of the court i was going to say that if you had it you simply turn off the monitor for that
00:48:45.100 section but if you've already made that change then then all the better there are two additional
00:48:50.380 changes as well and this is very short and so i'll leave it to the state if you wish to just
00:48:57.320 in real time pause and fast forward or wish to redact it i'll leave it to you so the additional
00:49:05.020 requested audio and visual redaction so this is not to be played whatsoever is 27 minutes 18 seconds
00:49:13.920 to 27 minutes and 25 seconds and the second is 28 minutes and 11 seconds to 28 minutes and 18 seconds
00:49:25.040 your honor just to make sure that we we've got that correct uh the additional redactions would
00:49:38.100 be 27 minutes and 18 seconds to 27 minutes and 25 seconds correct for the first one and then 28
00:49:51.280 minutes and 11 seconds to 28 minutes and 18 seconds yes and your honor while we're talking
00:49:58.480 about additional redactions let me approach
00:50:02.340 when your honor made his ruling
00:50:16.620 yesterday afternoon
00:50:18.320 it wasn't entirely clear
00:50:20.540 the basis for
00:50:22.300 these redactions that the court
00:50:24.240 proposed
00:50:25.140 the state's understanding
00:50:27.120 was that those additional redactions
00:50:30.140 were based on
00:50:31.260 the potential that the Video 11.02 would be showing duplicative evidence,
00:50:40.840 would be displaying evidence that would be duplicative of future exhibits,
00:50:46.940 and then also potentially a concern about admissions by the defendant.
00:50:53.600 Portions that the court has ordered to be redacted do not have any of those concerns.
00:51:01.260 as far as the state's view of that evidence.
00:51:05.940 And I would like to be able to point the court to those.
00:51:10.340 We've got two brief portions that we believe don't implicate those concerns
00:51:15.120 and should not be redacted.
00:51:17.760 All right.
00:51:19.760 Does Your Honor have the transcript in front of you?
00:51:23.300 Okay.
00:51:31.260 First of all, at the very, very bottom of page 10, beginning with the words,
00:51:47.980 was he, and then over to page 11, down to time stamp 1646.
00:52:01.260 So that portion is not cumulative of additional exhibits, and it contains nothing that could be classified as an admission by the defendant.
00:52:16.640 That's the first portion.
00:52:19.100 So going back to page 10, I don't see, was he at the bottom?
00:52:22.820 um where where are you how many lines from the bottom up are you referring to you may
00:52:32.780 oh i see right here okay now i see what you're saying i missed that i was looking at the
00:52:40.540 beginning of the line but I see your point okay so from was he on page 10
00:52:52.180 until 16 the timestamp 1646 on page 11 okay that's the first portion and then
00:53:02.380 the second portion that we would ask not be redacted is a small portion of page
00:53:08.560 19. And it begins, let's see, it would be the fifth paragraph down, Mr. McBride
00:53:24.940 stating, okay, and then ending at timestamp 3340. Again, that's not
00:53:34.300 cumulative of any anticipated exhibit and nor does it refer to any admission by
00:53:43.020 the defendant. Thank you.
00:53:51.800 Yes, you may.
00:54:04.300 Thank you, Your Honor.
00:54:07.180 With respect to the first of the two portions that Mr. Ballard referenced,
00:54:12.380 I want to be totally transparent with the court, of course,
00:54:15.680 that that was not a section that we asked the government to agree to redact.
00:54:21.560 That is a section that the court independently determined was appropriate for redaction
00:54:29.980 under the various principles that the court has enunciated.
00:54:34.300 So I just want to be transparent about that.
00:54:36.880 Thank you.
00:54:37.780 The second portion that Mr. Ballard addressed, which is on page 19, we did suggest, and it is in our highlighted, redacted transcript, and the court agreed with us, this is not relevant.
00:55:04.300 This is not admissible under 403.
00:55:17.900 I don't understand how this questioning by Mr. McBride and the answers to these questions by Mr. Twiggs,
00:55:26.460 and now I'm going to quote the Utah Rule of Evidence,
00:55:28.700 has any tendency and reason to make a fact of consequence more or less true.
00:55:34.300 That's the relevance question.
00:55:36.300 So I understand that the court has said,
00:55:40.300 I can make determinations of which portions of this transcript to rely upon,
00:55:44.300 but from my perspective what the state is asking the court to do
00:55:47.300 is to broadcast a portion of the transcript
00:55:50.300 which we are saying is not relevant,
00:55:52.300 and to the extent it has any relevance,
00:55:56.300 is significantly outweighed by undue prejudice.
00:56:00.300 I am not Mr. Twigg's representative, but I think as a witness who has counsel, there might be something that Mr. Twigg's counsel would want to say about this as well.
00:56:20.420 I don't know what it would be, but my firmly held belief is it would be consistent with what I'm saying,
00:56:27.400 which is that it is neither relevant nor probative of anything of significance,
00:56:35.400 especially in compared to the undue prejudice.
00:56:39.000 Thank you, Your Honor.
00:56:40.020 Thank you, Mr. Novak.
00:56:41.500 Mr. Ballard.
00:56:46.040 Thank you, Your Honors.
00:56:47.020 Mr. Novak recognized Mr. Twiggs was represented during this statement.
00:56:52.420 He, his counsel knew that this was being prepared to be produced in court,
00:57:00.940 and his counsel made no objections to this part of the interview, and this is
00:57:11.900 critically relevant. It provides important foundation, foundational
00:57:18.620 information about Mr. Twiggs, and identifying information about him, and
00:57:25.640 then also it's very relevant to the enhancement that we have charged.
00:57:32.000 All right, thank you.
00:57:37.120 anything further before the court rules on these two requests
00:57:43.540 all right in reviewing the first section again citing to page 10 and I know it is to anyone
00:57:55.340 listening this may not make sense when I'm saying page 10 but it's it's roughly just a few seconds
00:58:03.420 after 1539 on the video starting with was he and ending at 1646 with the last word asking
00:58:14.460 after hearing and considering what has been argued the court agrees that this
00:58:23.080 in applying a balancing test
00:58:28.740 and as it relates to transparency
00:58:31.440 to ensure the court is taking a very narrow approach
00:58:39.160 in what is or is not published to the public
00:58:42.660 that this is permissible
00:58:45.240 it doesn't run afoul of the issues
00:58:49.240 that the court addressed previously
00:58:51.080 that the court is trying to avoid by publishing portions and in addition to
00:58:59.520 that independently of the court's decision-making it appears that parties
00:59:05.000 also agree as it relates to the first requested edit to unredact or to allow
00:59:13.280 in so I am ruling that that may be played and published through all mediums
00:59:20.780 in the courtroom and via video turning to the second section this is page 19 it is roughly
00:59:30.800 right after 33 27 going to just before 33 40
00:59:37.360 sorry your honor just to clarify what we asked was just before 3307
00:59:52.920 3307 correct yeah yes in right after 3255
01:00:03.680 where Mr. McBride states, okay.
01:00:08.920 I see. Thank you.
01:00:11.120 Let me just take a quick second to review this.
01:00:20.560 In relation to that request from right after 3255,
01:00:26.740 starting with okay,
01:00:27.780 is that the spot you're talking about, Mr. Ballard?
01:00:30.660 Yes, Your Honor.
01:00:31.840 All right.
01:00:32.200 and specifically to 3327, the court stands by its original ruling.
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