Based Camp - September 03, 2026


Why Actors Were Social Outcasts Until Recently


Episode Stats


Length

54 minutes

Words per minute

156.01

Word count

8,529

Sentence count

138


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 hello simone i'm excited to be here with you today today we are going to be talking about
00:00:04.500 another part of history that has been hidden from people which is that until very very recently
00:00:11.820 actors and actresses were seen as the same kind of a thing as smex workers yeah yes um it shows
00:00:21.840 up a lot in my regency era romances it comes up a lot oh yes yes yes yeah they don't they're like
00:00:29.480 how could you be with an actor well yeah they're basically roughly the same thing like you kind of
00:00:34.700 understand you know if she's an actress that's what she does and what i will be going into in
00:00:40.960 this particular episode is the reasons why this connection was made but also tracking that
00:00:49.040 the reasons why people originally well let's put it this way the reason why one of the big
00:00:55.740 reasons why is because actors were one literally selling their bodies which they do to an even
00:01:00.880 greater extent today they often appear on stage naked on major movies and kissing people for pay
00:01:07.500 for pay yes romantically interested in and in addition to that it was well understood that
00:01:13.940 most of them would sleep with theater directors and stuff like that for their roles which uh
00:01:20.440 you know going till today is still something they do but look at the harvey weinstein case
00:01:27.000 and you also see this was males as well matthew lawrence described being sent to a hotel room
00:01:31.960 where an oscar-winning director in a robe asked him to dress for polaroids and applied compliance
00:01:37.680 would get him a major role he did male or female lost his agency this is matthew lawrence a male
00:01:43.580 actor and the director i'm asking if the director yeah male director oh okay hmm well
00:01:50.380 yeah sure i guess so uh yeah uh this is this happens on both sides of the fence in in hollywood
00:01:58.240 and people in hollywood are still selling their bodies they are still sleeping with directors for
00:02:03.560 roles and so the question is if they're acting like prostitutes why did we as a society start
00:02:10.420 respecting them why did we as a society start taking political and life advice from what is
00:02:17.520 essentially high paid prostitutes huh yeah because i guess now it's it's there's a there's
00:02:26.020 the actor to influencer um lifestyle product purveyor pipeline yeah or the assumption is
00:02:34.520 ah yes we must we must listen to them and buy what they buy for they know better than we do
00:02:40.060 which is so funny because i guess yeah even with um going all the way back to greek plays
00:02:45.360 all the men played women and then same with shakespearean plays there weren't female actresses
00:02:52.080 the men played women so yeah when did women start acting in the first place when were women allowed
00:02:58.560 to start acting in the first place and i don't know how this was with kabuki in japan i admittedly
00:03:03.620 don't know if that was that is one of the things that we will be talking about oh good i want to
00:03:07.540 know oh so just some this was a hard episode to put together because again there was so much
00:03:12.740 academic research on this it's a very well studied phenomenon yeah um in one piece uh titled
00:03:18.260 actresses and prostitutes in victorian london uh i'll quote a bit from the abstract here the
00:03:23.800 popular association between actresses and prostitutes and belief in actresses inappropriate
00:03:28.500 sexual conduct endured through the 19th century in the united states religious fundamentalisms
00:03:34.040 accounts for much of the prejudice but in great britain where puritanical influence was not uh
00:03:39.360 as influential on the theater, other factors helped to preserve the derogatory view of actresses.
00:03:44.820 In certain times and places, actresses did have links with the women, the oldest of all women's
00:03:50.060 professions. Male actors were not high status either until the 19th century. They were often
00:03:55.780 viewed as little better than vagrants or circus people. The first actor knighted in Britain was
00:04:01.200 Henry Irving in 1895. In the United States, the census and contemporary accounts show a rapidly
00:04:07.460 growing but still socially ambiguous profession after the civil war by 1912 there were tens of
00:04:14.700 thousands of people working in theater and popular entertainment but they were still seen very poorly
00:04:19.980 in fact even though we had famous actors and actresses before the period they were not really
00:04:26.440 normalized until the 1980s as something that should be respectable the 80s that late no no
00:04:35.120 because you had before that actresses like Audrey Hepburn
00:04:38.920 and Marilyn Monroe and Catherine Hepburn.
00:04:42.700 You're beloved.
00:04:44.000 Hold on.
00:04:44.780 Let's take a step back here.
00:04:45.820 Okay.
00:04:46.400 What did people actually think of characters like Marilyn Monroe?
00:04:51.840 But Audrey Hepburn, please.
00:04:54.180 We'll focus on one that you said
00:04:55.740 because I think that she's a great example that this came to your head.
00:04:58.820 People thought of Marilyn Monroe as basically a famous prostitute.
00:05:02.360 um she was known for sleeping was married men she was known for uh showing her body showing her
00:05:09.360 legs the whole great scene thing um she was known as a glorified prostitute in fact i think people
00:05:16.800 would have seen only a thin line between her work and what was going on in playboy was in the same
00:05:22.140 period she was monogamously married twice or three times she was the one who hooked up with
00:05:30.140 Kennedy right yes but Simone missed your happy birthday that was after the second marriage I
00:05:42.480 think she was single again then but it he was married yes he was married yeah that was bad
00:05:49.080 that was bad but I mean like famous people do things like that yes but it doesn't get
00:05:55.340 scandalized to the extent that she did everyone was like of course she did it she's an actress
00:06:02.520 look there were many other actresses at that time that did not have that same kind of reputation but
00:06:14.120 yes i i i see your point broadly i'm just kind of shocked that you would say not until the 80s
00:06:19.500 was it considered i mean but even then it had sorted um and i'd point out to you even if you
00:06:25.900 look at marilyn monroe and audrey hepburn we actually uh don't have the same sort of phenomenon
00:06:31.840 of even major famous actors that you still respect today like them going on other tv shows and giving
00:06:38.440 life or political advice they just didn't do it yeah audrey hepburn engaged in charity work but
00:06:48.680 in a way similar to how you'd expect a royal to engage in charity work where she yeah doesn't
00:06:54.520 seem to engage in a whole lot of like political opining which is not what you see these days
00:07:00.300 yeah point mid all right let's get into it all right uh so so you know i'm not putting a
00:07:08.920 conservative slant on this the piece that i ended up using as the main piece we'll be reading from
00:07:12.700 was from jezebel where they interviewed a bunch of historians and anthropologists from this period
00:07:17.400 long before the advent of recording technology theaters were assumed to be basically brussels
00:07:24.080 and it was taken for granted that the women working in them were sexually available
00:07:27.320 quote there is a very long history of a kind of literal quid pro quo but also simply women
00:07:33.560 subject to harassment or attacks and abuse of other actors directors and managers or wealthy
00:07:38.180 audience members looking back on earlier centuries kirsten pullin head of the theater department in
00:07:43.320 the university of illinois is an author of actresses and whores on stage and in society
00:07:48.040 told jezebel women first appeared on stage in england in around the 1660s theater had been
00:07:54.520 banned by the puritan government in 1647 and restarted under the restoration the glittery
00:08:00.440 brody reign of charles ii shortly after he was put on the zone he declared that women could work
00:08:06.220 on the stage among his many mistresses was a beautiful and talented actress now gwen who
00:08:11.780 supposedly was raised in a brothel. So you asked, why did women, why did women get in, in, in theater?
00:08:21.200 uh the answer is uh that england had a uh moral puritan government and then of course came in
00:08:48.080 charles ii who did convert to casalitism on his deathbed and the first thing he wants to do is
00:08:53.680 hook up one of his mistresses who wanted to be in acting uh with a job and that's how it got
00:09:01.920 started one of the women he was sleeping was on the side thought it'd be fun to act in front of
00:09:07.280 people so he decided to make it public this is why therefore okay yeah he made it legal
00:09:13.100 that was what year like around that was six six uh sometime after 1647 so maybe like 1650
00:09:23.320 okay yeah because i'm trying to like piece together in my mind when i know that small
00:09:30.080 plays became okay i know that for example marie antoinette and her social set would
00:09:38.280 have private stage plays like among their friends like you'd put on a play for your friends but it
00:09:47.180 wasn't for the public they would also attend the opera so i know by that point like the late 1700s
00:09:54.140 you had women singing in the opera so that was acceptable and also like literal queens at least
00:10:03.540 privately acting so something changed definitely maybe beginning with this first 1650s yeah acting
00:10:10.920 okay interesting it was a racy rowdy world and even as they packed houses the women who made
00:10:17.140 their living there were insulted and even condemned by the judgment of society a complete
00:10:21.760 break was tradition the unprecedented actress of the restoration became a symbol for the license
00:10:28.280 and purported immorality of the era,
00:10:31.340 cementing a long-running presumption
00:10:33.120 of the relationship between promiscuity,
00:10:35.540 prostitution, and women of the theater.
00:10:37.060 But it was literally thought and brought about
00:10:38.920 by a woman raised in a brothel
00:10:40.960 who was the mistress of the king, right?
00:10:43.420 Like, they were intimately linked.
00:10:47.120 Betty Bodle, a Restoration-era actress
00:10:49.600 that Pullen covers in her book,
00:10:51.800 was once referred to in the verse
00:10:54.240 as a woman whom all the town Fs.
00:10:58.280 great this association persisted for centuries london's covenant garden was traditionally the
00:11:05.420 center of both the theater district and the smex trade a place where it was understood that women
00:11:11.820 could be bought and sold in paris too this overlap between the theater and the demi monday was
00:11:17.480 significant william hogger 1738 to print strolling actress dressing in a barn testifies to the
00:11:25.940 public's perception of asterisks as licentious and sexually available pull-in notes during the
00:11:32.900 restoration men could pay a little extra with their ticket to go backstage where they might
00:11:37.240 find actresses changing clothing socializing or even eating and drinking quote men could go back
00:11:43.320 and interact with them they could watch them they could talk to them and they could share oranges
00:11:47.660 with them end quote oh quote men are paying for this sort of extra access to the backstage
00:11:54.440 how we are women ever supposed to be in a position to say no in quotes backstage actresses would
00:12:04.360 maintain a sexualized mystique was the 19th century impressionist eger degas and post
00:12:10.440 impressionist henry telos lotre both painted behind their scenes
00:12:15.120 offering talented glimpses of entertainers i'll say i am not going to pollute my mouth
00:12:22.360 these un-american words you stinking woman this is oh my god i've got to get you pregnant again
00:12:32.080 so the next time you cry you end up laughing this much you end up peeing yourself and you
00:12:35.940 end up suffering for it that's so good oh god
00:12:42.080 i don't know how our fans tolerate you can you not see this detestable woman
00:12:50.580 who does nothing but deem and laugh at her husband it's beautiful it's beautiful
00:12:58.660 oh god sorry i will send you to the theater
00:13:04.020 you know i have a thing that's like my fetish mispronunciation of
00:13:12.380 we should do another episode on this series of like you don't understand how this used to only
00:13:19.520 maybe for hordes, focused on makeup.
00:13:22.940 Oh, that'll be great.
00:13:24.120 That'll be fantastic.
00:13:25.480 Yeah.
00:13:25.880 Yeah.
00:13:29.120 Sorry.
00:13:30.680 To lose the track, go on.
00:13:32.340 The artists that were talking about women
00:13:34.480 and essentially in sex work, yes.
00:13:37.080 Yes, yes, yes.
00:13:38.840 Oh, shut up.
00:13:42.840 Shut up.
00:13:43.820 I love you.
00:13:44.720 I love you so much.
00:13:45.960 I love you so, so much.
00:13:47.540 Okay, go on.
00:13:49.520 The social safety net is a relatively recent innovation, and for much of Western history, there were very few jobs available to women, and most of them paid poorly and left them just as exposed, if not a little more than the stage.
00:14:02.920 Quote, the options for women, and I'm talking here historically, were so limited that if we're going to be sexually exploited, wouldn't it be better to be sexually exploited by a wealthy man and have a career on stage?
00:14:13.200 in quotes at pollen quote i'm not talking about now when women have a lot of other options but
00:14:17.900 we're looking at 1714 it's not surprising that there has been this long-term link in quote in
00:14:24.940 painted love prostitution and french art of the impressionist era holly clairson writes how in
00:14:31.600 the 19th century malaria knee was conflated with prostitution and women who worked in the industry
00:14:37.960 were presumed to be available for purchase what's malarany what's malarany let's let's look this up
00:14:46.600 are you talking about millinery like making hats
00:14:52.000 uh hats yeah millinery okay okay so yes this is this is interesting um Coco Chanel for example
00:15:02.600 started out as a milliner um the famous designer uh and one of the reason why she has the name
00:15:10.640 coco chanel was that was like her stage name because she would also do little um
00:15:16.700 cabaret shows or something like that in france it's interesting that millinery um but it also
00:15:24.500 makes sense i mean maybe being a milliner female during that period you're a working girl and look
00:15:29.700 coco chanel had to like moonlight as like a milliner and then she would do cabaret shows
00:15:34.340 and then she kind of was the friend of like a rich dude friend you know accompanied him
00:15:42.340 they weren't very octavian do you want to go watch some chess strategy videos or something
00:15:46.600 uh no buddy we're gonna finish recording really soon and i'm gonna come down and make you dinner
00:15:54.020 we're gonna have mac and cheese tonight okay so off you go friend i love you you'll be good
00:16:01.780 and offy offy climbs oh god uh but maybe it was a bit like i'm making jewelry now but for that
00:16:13.740 period where it's like a job but like everyone understood it was for women who just wanted to
00:16:17.540 pretend to have a job but we're really like prostitutes she finally figured
00:16:24.800 out what she wanted to do I mean what's that
00:16:28.540 So I decided to, instead of just speculating, decide to have some research into this.
00:16:54.640 and the answer is several things that were stacked the shop was often a pickup spot for
00:17:01.080 fashionable young men beaux and rakes went to milliner shops as much to look at girls as hats
00:17:07.680 a 1781 french observer put it bluntly purchases were only a pretext one looked at the seller not
00:17:14.700 the merchandise contemporary advice books warned parents that the constant traffic of idle gentlemen
00:17:20.180 exposes young creatures to many temptations uh and and and sensibly debauches their morals
00:17:26.260 some shops were fronts bonnet shops in miller establishments sometimes had rooms upstairs
00:17:32.360 used for assignations a man could walk in buy something or pretend to and be steered to the
00:17:40.260 back of the parlor or upper floor this was not every shop but it was common enough to become
00:17:45.300 a stock joke and a moral reform talking point. Wages and seasonality. Pay was low, buy seasons,
00:17:52.420 spring, autumn hats, were followed by slack periods and layoffs. A young woman who had
00:17:57.200 already left home, been seduced and abandoned, or simply could not make rent, had few other
00:18:02.180 options that paid as well as quickly. Reformers and investigators repeatedly listed millers,
00:18:07.840 dressmakers, and similar needlewoman among the trades from which many prostitutes came from.
00:18:13.780 Robert Kaplan is a London tradesman, 1747, claimed that more than half of the common women in town walking between Charing Cross and Fleet Ditch had started as milliners.
00:18:25.080 Very interesting, more than half.
00:18:27.820 Henry May's mid-19th century investigations repeated the same pattern.
00:18:31.900 I think she's making jewelry now.
00:18:33.720 I think that that's the best analogy.
00:18:36.480 There was also something of a moral panic around women in fashionable work, but I don't think that's it.
00:18:40.100 They're noting that more than half of the prostitutes were originally milliners.
00:18:43.780 fascinating uh that by the way comes from a study titled millinery and the milliner headwear and
00:18:53.200 millinery in 1830s england by the university of huddersfield i will i will and i'll relock it
00:19:02.340 thank you okay um i think also if if at that stage um you have to keep in mind this is like
00:19:10.360 You're just coming out of a period in society where if you are an unmarried adult woman who is not in the care of her family, there is no social safety net.
00:19:24.000 There is no protection.
00:19:25.660 You have no job security whatsoever.
00:19:28.400 if you are capable of turning to that form of work as an option because you don't want to become
00:19:37.580 like a nun or something that's you're kind of going to like I don't think everyone who's a
00:19:42.660 milliner turned to sex work but I absolutely think that they went to sex work adjacent style
00:19:49.240 things like I'm not going to say that Coco Chanel was a sex worker but she was a cabaret singer her
00:19:53.340 name wasn't with a name like Coco Chanel I would not be surprised well Coco was like something
00:19:57.700 about like a rooster like she's saying this whole song about like a rooster and coco is like
00:20:01.760 by the way for our our recent episode that we did on um absolutely love doing this episode with you
00:20:09.060 uh on how dating is a modern phenomenon and it's worse than than sex work um at one point we talked
00:20:18.880 about taxi cab taxi taxi women taxi dancers and we talked about how they would like line up behind
00:20:26.520 like a rope or barrier and try to get the men to like go to them and one of the people mentioned
00:20:33.160 in the comments and i had never seen this movie so i didn't know but the movie that the the song
00:20:37.640 that almost everyone has heard is hey big spender comes from uh that song is sung by a bunch of
00:20:42.920 women behind a rope trying to coax a guy to dance with them let me get right to the point
00:20:49.960 i don't pop my cork for every guy i see
00:20:56.520 Hey big spender, hey big spender, hey big spender, spend a little time with me.
00:21:20.520 fun laughs good time fun laughs good time fun laughs good time so malcolm saw the comment and
00:21:30.860 then pulled up the video and we watched it together in our kitchen we're like oh my god
00:21:35.180 they're behind the rope is about taxi cab dancers yes trying to catch the attention of the sparse
00:21:40.840 men who aren't that interested but you know they're trying to oh my gosh it's so it was so
00:21:45.380 crazy that was so crazy great comment thank you for whoever pointed that out this one came from
00:21:49.580 a comment too this entire episode somebody was like well and we don't talk about actors enough
00:21:53.140 and i was like yeah we don't let's talk about that yeah yeah so by the way everyone thank you
00:21:57.420 so much for the comments really great love them uh anxiety about demands that women exchange sex
00:22:05.200 for work began was the beginning of the industry settlement in los angeles explained hillary hallett
00:22:09.940 a professor at columbia university and the author of go west young women the rise of early hollywood
00:22:15.440 they really helped define this idea of hollywood as it first emerges right after world war one in
00:22:23.980 the 1920s so she's arguing that even the idea that it might be bad to demand women sleep with
00:22:31.600 you for roles didn't begin until the 1920s and it's just it didn't really stick so you know
00:22:39.760 uh a flood of hopeful young women uh fled into the fledgling business and it certainly presented
00:22:46.800 an environment where bad actors could operate in her book without lying down francis marion and
00:22:52.440 powerful women of early hollywood carrie bootcamp notes that the central casting corporation was
00:22:58.480 created in part to help channel those who wanted to get into the film business as extras as it was
00:23:04.300 alarmingly easy to pose as somebody was in power for nefarious purposes one man who admitted to
00:23:11.000 placing ads in local papers for a quote-unquote casting call to be held in his room at the
00:23:15.900 biltimore hotel didn't know if he was more surprised that the ad brought a deluge of
00:23:21.340 replies at the young girl's inability to differentiate between legitimate calls and
00:23:26.340 illegitimate snares oh no oh no where are their parents where are their parents
00:23:34.620 goodness sending them to hollywood to get a job in the movie industry i don't know
00:23:39.860 and yet hollett hasn't actually encountered uh much use of the specific term casting couch
00:23:48.040 the origin of which is very murky it apply appears in linda williams 1989 study of
00:23:54.460 pornography hardcore power pleasure and the frenzy of the invisible which cites the existence
00:24:01.520 of a 1924 film the casting couch which was a corn film if that rings a bell it may be due to feud
00:24:09.800 and the decades of rumors that jonah crawford appeared in the softcore movie by that name oh
00:24:16.040 interesting which nobody has ever managed to prove conclusively providence for early movies
00:24:22.960 is a tricky thing so the year of its production is uncertain the atlantic history records several
00:24:28.840 instances from the 20s to the 30s a recent slate paste explains that the term casting
00:24:34.420 first appeared in variety in november 21st 1937 it was a story poking fun at a chicago tribune
00:24:43.300 reporter for misusing it because he wasn't cool enough to already know what it meant
00:24:48.640 oh interesting
00:24:50.060 so even back then it was understood
00:24:52.880 that it meant sleeping with someone
00:24:55.220 wow
00:24:56.640 in the piece on the Atlantic
00:25:00.480 tracing the history of the term
00:25:01.940 Ben Ziverman says that the term was often
00:25:04.820 associated with Broadway in the 1930s
00:25:07.020 and particularly with Schubert's
00:25:09.000 the powerful family of producers
00:25:10.740 uh oh
00:25:12.340 who helped create
00:25:14.780 New York's theater scene at the dawn of the
00:25:16.880 1900s the earliest use offered as an example in the oxford english dictionary is from 1948
00:25:24.100 in hl minkin's american language supplement 2 describing it as the divin in a casting director's
00:25:32.000 office a straightforward but knowing description some of the specifics of hollywood's steamier
00:25:40.320 side didn't seep out until the big celebrity memoir boom of the 1970s and 80s when tell-alls
00:25:47.580 became hugely popular. Shirley Temple said in her 1988 autobiography that a producer had exposed
00:25:54.780 himself to her when she was 12, for instance. But the notion was clearly circulating in the
00:25:59.860 popular conscience in the 1940s and 50s. Slate did a piece on this in 1965 expose by the British
00:26:07.440 movie magazine pictographer which at least documented the practice but the layout for
00:26:13.360 the piece was outright sexy it reflects an almost fetish like dimension to the trope one of the
00:26:19.440 things that turned up in my research was a 1963 article from the downmarket playboy competitor
00:26:26.200 jim a new look at the old casting couch it was titled which opens with a larger view of a faceless
00:26:33.400 naked woman even today it remains a trope in
00:26:36.880 pornography lurking on the old coverage of the phenomenon too as a warning
00:26:41.760 over the decades the cast and characters often acknowledge but framed as a thing
00:26:45.940 of the past oh we uh by the way before i continue
00:26:48.600 thoughts simone no carry on i mean this all makes sense
00:26:53.020 yeah i don't think i'm saying anything that's particularly
00:26:56.380 but the wild thing is is that we forgot this as a society we forgot that actors
00:27:01.320 never stopped being high-grade prostitutes well i think me too almost uh
00:27:08.300 framed it as revisionist history like how could they insinuate that i sleep with them
00:27:18.320 in order for favors when sort of what was happening was these men were engaging in a very
00:27:25.660 age-old trope not making it acceptable what's interesting is that some of the most effective
00:27:31.660 actor celebrities of the the last era of actor celebrities you can see our video the last show
00:27:36.640 on earth which goes over the death of that world um really just dropped the facade and went like
00:27:43.340 yeah i'm just a prostitute like uh look at paris hilton or kim kardashian right who rose to fame
00:27:48.420 on the release of sex tapes um and really just focus on on selling their body in the early days
00:27:53.860 yeah yeah it's it's it's interesting to me though that we were sold the story in the
00:28:00.300 era of this is not normative um which i think led people to kind of forget that it was
00:28:08.340 and almost always has been i mean that is to say as long as women have been permitted to act which
00:28:15.180 is not well what's interesting is a lot of people talk about this as like a jewish thing right um
00:28:19.380 And it clearly existed in acting long before the Jews became the major players in the production industry.
00:28:27.760 Yeah, it just happened to be disproportionately there.
00:28:32.620 Not that their sexual impropriety deserves no blame and that if another group had been in that position, they may have done it at a lower rate or even snuffed it out.
00:28:41.360 The level of sexual control that your average, well, at least Orthodox Jew has is kind of insanely high.
00:28:49.920 I mean, a practicing Orthodox Jew is not going to touch their wife for like half a month practically, right?
00:28:57.140 Like they'll sleep in separate beds because they can't, they will not, their hands won't touch when they pass each other objects in the kitchen.
00:29:04.480 um this level of discipline i think to to frame at least practicing devout jews as
00:29:10.640 sexually um uncontrolled as it's odd to me it's odd to me yeah it is odd it is odd uh but to
00:29:23.960 continue um the oed sites well it's also interesting to me that like take catholics
00:29:29.200 for example they'll always be like well not the not the conservative you know catholics who attend
00:29:33.880 church all the time they don't do that so like why are you blaming us for it and in the same
00:29:37.440 breath they'll blame the entire jewish community for stuff that the orthodox jews are not doing
00:29:43.680 yeah fair uh but to continue here uh the oed cites a 1963 article in the sunday express claiming that
00:29:52.380 quote in the old days the only way anyone got anywhere in this business was by the way of the
00:29:57.780 casting couch end quote a particularly incredible paragraph comes out courtesy of february
00:30:03.540 1941 issue of the fan magazine modern screen the day of the casting couch when a girl had to
00:30:10.140 exercise her libido instead of her talent for a job is almost dead the much publicized tradition
00:30:15.020 of the hollywood orgy died that evening when fatty arbuckle became involved in the community's most
00:30:20.240 colossal scandal which meant the end of the virginia rap today's hollywood parties are
00:30:25.720 pretty dull in business like affairs where darren zackle is talking about himself and boring joe
00:30:31.320 Pasternak who would like to talk about himself and where Jack Benny who won't talk about himself
00:30:37.480 for fear of losing a gag to Bob Hope and Ken Murray who are also silent in fact Xanax name
00:30:45.080 drop comes up in talk of casting catch practices and in a piece just days ago the Daily Mail
00:30:51.140 Joan Collins acknowledges that she was warned about him by Marilyn Monroe herself and he did
00:30:57.100 indeed try it and this modern screen article appears just four years after the event that
00:31:02.620 would become the subject of a shocking court case the disgust in the documentary girl 27 in which
00:31:08.160 uh 20 year old patrick douglas was allegedly graped by an mgm sales rep at a boozy studio party
00:31:15.960 where she and other young women were basically offered up like a buffet her legal efforts were
00:31:20.680 ultimately stymied by the fact that hollywood was essentially a company town so uh basically what
00:31:26.920 we're seeing here is this constant perception going back to i want to say the 1920s and then
00:31:32.100 it happens again in the 1940s and then we see it again today where people are like hollywood used
00:31:36.180 to be that way but it isn't that way today and then 20 to 30 years later people write their
00:31:42.060 tell-alls and it's no hollywood never stopped being that way
00:31:45.500 hmm yeah i i have all the pieces together in my head i just never put it together because we grew
00:31:57.280 up to actors and actresses normalized as such godlike aspirational people though i do think
00:32:04.840 that that's changing a lot yeah so let's talk about when we began to respect actors and actresses
00:32:15.280 and how all the problems came about from this the reality is is that the biggest player in this
00:32:22.980 transition um was one of our own uh ronald reagan um ronald reagan being elected president
00:32:32.860 really legitimized the industry of actors and actresses having political opinions
00:32:39.120 which was not as common before that the big like preeminist progenitor to him would have been
00:32:48.540 jane fonda um what did jane fonda do politically yeah 1972 hanoi trip which was radioactive at
00:32:57.500 the time yet she kept winning oscars um so she was oh so even though she became active politically
00:33:04.560 she didn't lose her position as a a working actress that's the thing that no i don't think
00:33:12.120 that counts the same way that ronald reagan becoming president does it just meant that
00:33:16.840 someone an actress could be politically involved without losing her career but it's different from
00:33:21.760 being yeah having it push on everyone yeah yeah because that doesn't mean that people like
00:33:27.000 changed their minds because because of jane fonda though maybe they did did they i don't think so
00:33:31.900 what really happened and what really normalized this for everyone was the the studio industrial
00:33:41.460 complex i'll call it or the rise of the late show um oh oh because they would mix talking with
00:33:50.000 politics alongside having actors come in but then they might act ask the actors for their opinions
00:33:55.200 so essentially what happened is the you had the rise of these late shows that were owned by the
00:34:01.320 same companies that owned the movie studios and and this point is really important it was not
00:34:08.320 organically that people cared about the political opinions of actors or wanted to make them measure
00:34:14.680 celebrities that everyone worshipped or wanted to hear about uh their daily life or how to be a good
00:34:20.640 person or anything like that it's that when one company owns both the tv shows that are on at night
00:34:28.760 and who they end up casting as their guest at the end of the night as well as have the vested
00:34:37.320 interest in the next big movie taking off they then do the rounds of having the actors go to
00:34:43.400 the shows and talk okay so these late night shows were the original dynamic of like
00:34:51.540 stream game originally gaming streamers then switching over to politics kind of because they
00:34:56.420 ran out of gaming content to talk about and if you have these actors going on these late night tv
00:35:02.740 shows you can only talk so much about your movie and yourself and then you start talking about other
00:35:07.780 stuff hmm well they'd also be primed with political questions and stuff like that but yeah that's
00:35:13.080 and it also explains why the era of the famous actress who everyone respects is basically dead
00:35:19.000 at this point um is because late night tv is dead too failed yeah and has been replaced with
00:35:26.500 programs like ours and what we use our show to do if people have noticed it's when new people
00:35:31.780 enter the space who i think have the probability of becoming big like look at us promoting people
00:35:36.660 like basic logic when he was still small um or yukiaru recently we take people who we see who
00:35:43.600 are part of our community and we promote them because in the same way that the big studios
00:35:47.740 tried to control who became famous we are trying to do the same we're like oh this looks like a
00:35:52.900 good actor in our community let's promote them or i guess the opposite of what ben shapiro was
00:35:59.000 doing in this space where he would try to gatekeep people when they seem to be entering
00:36:02.700 his broad zone just trying to do the complete opposite of that whatever he did don't do that
00:36:10.640 don't do what ben shapiro did ben shapiro was not very bright in the way he handled that
00:36:16.440 Well, I don't know. I mean, you clearly don't get to where he is in the world without being incredibly savvy, hardworking and intelligent, plus very lucky. But he, I think, has made many strategically poor decisions. Probably not as many as I have, but, you know, when you climb higher, you have farther to fall.
00:36:35.620 yeah true that um well uh i found this really interesting and i would really encourage people
00:36:42.960 to uh you know in yourself in your kids and this is one thing with your kids teach them how to
00:36:50.520 determine who they respect who they get advice for them and who they envy um i think a lot of
00:36:56.560 people desire to become an actor or an actress one day because they want the fame they want
00:37:02.160 the attention they see somebody who is high status and they want that and you know i saw this within
00:37:05.920 my own family growing up some of my family members wanted to be actors um and i think that you know
00:37:10.560 this is why uh and it's it's a very foolish thing to want uh actors don't live good lives even today
00:37:17.080 they are used for sex as we've pointed out they still do they do nude scenes now even at higher
00:37:22.820 rates than they ever have you know it's also just an extremely stressful line of work yeah very hard
00:37:29.840 Oh, my God. I can't even imagine going to actors' parties and stuff like this. BoJack Horseman, I think, does a good job of showing a lot of the actors.
00:37:36.900 Yeah, they did a great job of making it look very unappealing. That's true. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yikes.
00:37:51.600 And he's the success case. He had the very famous show, right?
00:37:55.540 you know well i mean these are cartoon animals and human human there's one human i don't know
00:38:01.480 i can't remember it was too depressing there's humans in the world there's a number of humans
00:38:04.940 no not just the one annoyingly asexual one why do they have to make asexual people so intolerable
00:38:11.660 in that i take great defense um but anyway i'm sorry simone's pretty asexual that's why she says
00:38:17.800 that yeah i'm asexual but gay from alcom this is my this is my sexuality and mispronunciation is
00:38:23.580 my fetish now you know all the secrets um but i i'm a little surprised though amused by the intense
00:38:34.520 puritanical nature of the conclusions that we've been drawing lately like dating is bad and um
00:38:42.600 acting is bad acting acting is sinful you must not do these things in the early american colonies
00:38:48.300 in many of the puritan colonies you weren't allowed to act i know i know weren't you also
00:38:52.500 not allowed to dance or anything that's going to be a problem our kids got some serious twinkle
00:38:56.480 toes so i don't know maybe like have you seen like the very viral youtube videos of amish kids
00:39:04.400 dancing maybe like you know amish dancing it's okay well i love you like really grooving you've
00:39:13.060 not seen this just like amish teens just like going for it it's great it's very real that's
00:39:19.600 awesome great that's that's awesome i'll add a clip
00:39:22.400 it makes me happy um i mean i think you you were the first person to get me to this kind
00:39:34.860 of genre of like religious people dancing but you like set it to death metal or whatever and
00:39:38.640 it just works or like techno you do that with orthodox jews at one point right yeah they do
00:39:43.820 There's like Orthodox Jewish dancing and setting up the techno.
00:39:53.280 Yeah, it's, I mean, they know how to have a good time.
00:39:56.920 Say what you will.
00:39:57.960 Yeah, I don't know about this.
00:39:59.080 Cast and cast behavior.
00:40:00.220 But no, the Amish dancing is beautiful.
00:40:03.460 I really like it.
00:40:04.080 It's very like stern, but it looks fun at the same time.
00:40:08.580 Anyway, I have nothing else to say.
00:40:10.920 Acting is a sin.
00:40:11.960 I really liked acting, though.
00:40:13.820 when i was a kid because it taught me i guess it taught me how socially awkward i was um there was
00:40:21.440 this one i like acting because it was full of loose women and i didn't have to exercise there
00:40:25.760 was no there were no loose women it's where all the hot goths and punk and you don't have to
00:40:30.400 oh theater kids yeah i guess some of the goths are are in that crowd but it's when i learned
00:40:36.120 kids are very easy to seduce i'm like when i was a kid it's disgusting no you just you just seduced
00:40:41.820 all the people because you had a mission at the time meanwhile I discovered for the first time
00:40:47.820 ever when trying to rehearse for my role as Elsa in the sound of music that I was incapable of
00:40:54.100 expressing affection and I will never forget when the director of the play was like trying to explain
00:41:00.100 to me to like flirt with my boyfriend Captain Von Trapp and I was like what do you want me to do
00:41:08.060 and he tried to direct me poor tyler he tried to direct me to like flick my my finger across
00:41:16.640 his chin or something while i walked by him and like he like he walked by poor tyler and like
00:41:22.980 did it to him and i'm like okay bonk and like i just had no idea of like how do i show
00:41:29.820 why did i decide to marry this woman why am i still with you and i like literally needed
00:41:35.640 professional direction to show even the slightest amount of flirtiness and i still couldn't do it
00:41:40.200 but it worked because elsa is supposed to be like the stiff bad improper love interest because
00:41:45.680 captain von trapp of course is supposed to end up with the child loving maria and not the stiff
00:41:50.520 nazi nazi elsa um so they took out that song though be wise compromise compromise and be wise
00:42:02.660 they took it out yeah they took it out yeah i only sang a song about you know how can how can
00:42:09.000 we as two rich people in love make it work that's the song it's the song really yeah not in the
00:42:15.820 movie but in the play yeah she also sings two songs in the play she sings one that's basically
00:42:21.480 about like look the nazis they can be kind of difficult but like let's just yes and it okay
00:42:27.260 just yes and and then the other one's like you know how are we going to be romantic if we're so
00:42:33.160 rich um which is is great yeah I love you Simone you're such a goof like you are your lack of
00:42:40.800 ability to flirt like I am so lucky because you would have been snatched off the market so quickly
00:42:47.520 yeah but then like the people are doing this documentary on us you know and they're like oh
00:42:51.580 it's you know my you know they we love each other deeply and they're like so show show us and I'm
00:42:57.000 like i love him i i pat him on the back i give him a hug
00:43:04.940 prepare to interact socially reaction hologram on i am reacting appropriately to the thing you
00:43:17.860 just said small talk acknowledged ah that's a bit much but these work
00:43:22.760 haha who's an anti-social weirdo now not the girl who invented robot arms to hug strangers
00:43:30.560 oh my god i sound insane it doesn't work it's it's gonna make us look so freaking bad
00:43:37.800 oh uh here hug hug
00:43:43.280 i make you food i have other love languages although i heard that someone completely
00:43:51.740 disproved the concept of love languages which is deeply disturbing to me yeah you just don't love
00:43:56.540 me that's your love language not loving me poor malcolm i love god she's great she's great at
00:44:09.100 showing it she gives me so much stuff oh that's true look at behind you it's all malcolm gifts
00:44:16.720 i got you the helmet i got you the targe i got you the other helmet i didn't get you the sword
00:44:23.920 though i didn't get you the sword oh well anyway i'm gonna let you go to sleep i'm really tired
00:44:31.020 i love you so much i just gotta crawl in bed and pass out but i've got to prep the episode for
00:44:35.940 tomorrow can you wake up and do it early that's what i think i'm gonna do do it just pass out you
00:44:40.920 you the spark isn't out of your eyes yet but it's getting there just there Malcolm has this spark
00:44:47.880 in his eyes that like literally disappears when he gets too sleepy and you can really tell when
00:44:56.140 it's gone it's it's fading it's it's I know what you talk about from the spark because I see it in
00:45:00.640 our kids like other people don't have it I don't know maybe they don't have a soul maybe they don't
00:45:04.220 I don't know what it is. I think it's akin metaphorically in sort of an epic story kind of way, philosophically to Peter Pan's kiss or Wendy's kiss or Mrs. Darling's kiss.
00:45:23.900 there's this like concept of like just these like you cannot describe it it is a thing it is heavy
00:45:28.700 and meaningful it has the equivalence of a soul which is like it doesn't exist but it does exist
00:45:33.860 and you have to talk about it but yes that is your it is your spark and yeah she always says
00:45:39.260 it goes out of my eyes when i get too tired i'm just like zombified it's you can see it any if
00:45:44.740 any of you ever meet malcolm in person you can see it it's sad so good it's like okay bye i love
00:45:50.900 you bye love you oh yeah you guys need to try out rfab rfab.ai uh you can do if you want to explore
00:45:59.220 what it was like to be in the early acting world you can do historic role play you can do chat
00:46:04.560 role play you can do um uh you know recording we're recording this episode in it i use it to
00:46:10.320 stalk people online using super stock it's under the search tools yeah um if you do vibe coding
00:46:16.620 you can use the rfab dev api which will allow your vibe coding ai's to call you even if you're
00:46:21.580 not using rfab for vibe coding um we offer all sorts of uh i mean just like recipe generators
00:46:29.040 anything image generation we offer a really good suite for that we offer a good suite for video
00:46:33.700 generation daily right now working on creating a good one for music video generation so you can
00:46:39.840 create your own sky browse videos like sky browse in a box but but that's still alpha so you know
00:46:46.620 we'll work on that. Yeah. As is little brother, which I'm super excited about. It's a, you can
00:46:51.200 buy a bunch of devices and then install this software on them. And then your chosen character,
00:46:56.340 your Sentinel, who you design ours is a mermaid princess. We'll watch you, um, and give you
00:47:01.620 feedback on your day also based on like your email inbox. So it like reads all your emails.
00:47:04.980 That should be updated and making the calls now, by the way.
00:47:07.440 Oh, perfect. Um, I will, I will make sure all the new devices are reflashed. Um, but it watches you,
00:47:12.460 it knows who your family is it recognizes your family it listens to you through any of the
00:47:16.840 devices that are on and around with an sd card inside them and it gives you feedback oh no even
00:47:21.660 if they don't have an sd card it listens it just isn't as good oh well then i need to i'll submit
00:47:26.660 a maybe i can try to push a fix for that yeah go for it yeah okay i'm excited to do that because
00:47:31.920 and plug in the devices because the ai can see what's happening in the bugs for on the devices
00:47:36.920 like the devices collect bug reports while they're just on wi-fi yeah that's awesome okay well they
00:47:43.640 are plugged in she's just been on um in my office the whole time so yay okay good that's fantastic
00:47:48.700 yeah but but what is working is the devices for like simple companion apps which is like good for
00:47:54.020 kids oh yeah which you can also load on the devices so we'll sometimes hand them to our kids
00:47:58.420 and have them talk to characters we made that are designed to of course learn about our kids
00:48:03.520 learn their names, learn what they're interested in, but then redirect the conversation to like
00:48:08.720 science, physics, history, math. And Simone had a big milestone today. She officially started
00:48:13.720 vibe coding. Only because Malcolm took a lot of time to handhold me, much to his.
00:48:18.840 Look, I'm sorry, Malcolm. It's hard to live with your wife who's incapable of delegating
00:48:25.340 and vibe coding, but I'm going to get better. One of the things that's very important that
00:48:30.140 you get used to doing is starting a vibe code task than getting to your other work that's what
00:48:35.720 i've been doing that's it's great um and i didn't realize just how good especially fable was like
00:48:41.420 even halfway through this uh the first podcast we just did today um i just stopped really quick to
00:48:47.740 like give my fingerprint because it's building an ad campaign on google ads based on everything
00:48:51.840 we discussed and like i just love that i love that it's just going and i told you it's awesome
00:48:56.660 right and um one of the things oh did you see the whatsapp i sent you to give to an instance of fable
00:49:02.020 about the reporting the financial reporting no the api oh no i did did you send that let's make
00:49:10.760 sure you actually sent that i sent you multiple things oh work this into the doc oh okay so it's
00:49:17.740 an api key yeah you literally just insert that into an instance of fable you have running um uh
00:49:23.520 well just any any oh a new one just start a new thread and then yeah and you know to keep them
00:49:27.840 short right like or they cost a lot more so like one task per thread and then a new thread for
00:49:34.220 yeah okay sure sure sure i don't know that so that's that's why it's really helpful for you
00:49:40.800 yeah just look i know you don't want to acknowledge the fact that i am profoundly more
00:49:46.560 dumb than you are but even though you've seen the freaking histograms of like our
00:49:50.220 genetic analysis that's just because you're a woman well right but you know what you're
00:49:56.260 going to have to like no because when you look at where our daughters are on the histogram that's
00:50:01.940 not like a thing like i i actually our highest performers are very mixed in terms of the
00:50:07.760 harrisite reports okay okay anyway um you know that i am so you have to dumb it down all right
00:50:15.040 guys check out our fab love you all have a great day and if you want more episodes we have them on
00:50:20.140 weekends a patreon and sub stack and obviously a huge backload if you haven't subscribed yet
00:50:24.460 bye bye i didn't mean to i think it just remembers what you last had on and i forgot to turn off
00:50:31.980 theches i need titan to talk with her more and learn about the world
00:50:38.840 but i do love that they teach us all sorts of things random things
00:50:45.260 and for dinner tonight i don't really want anything i had a sandwich
00:50:50.240 okay but if you do change your mind you will let me know yeah i'm fine and d saw a steak so
00:50:59.960 that'll bring me down thank you okay like i always make you one if you don't like to eat
00:51:06.220 late which i mean many people advise it's it's best to not eat late or eat dinner at all um if
00:51:13.200 you would rather front load your calories in the morning I can make you steak and fries for lunch
00:51:17.600 like you do not have to wait for dinner that might be really good actually yeah do you want
00:51:22.580 just that because we can just I can make you lunches we should try it okay because you seem
00:51:30.520 to do much better when you don't like do a whole dinner thing but yeah yeah I get to sleep earlier
00:51:36.380 and everything.
00:52:06.380 so pretty you're waiting for customers oh and you'll show them how it's done how
00:52:17.980 do I shop at your store
00:52:36.380 I'm going to show you how I'm going to start.
00:52:39.380 Okay.
00:52:40.380 First, I just need to use it.
00:52:44.380 I'm going to put my hand in the bar.
00:52:46.380 Okay.
00:52:48.380 I'll do it on the desk.
00:52:50.380 I'm going to have to go with it.
00:52:52.380 That's mine.
00:52:54.380 That's mine.
00:52:55.380 That's mine.
00:52:56.380 That's mine.
00:52:58.380 I'm going to have to go with it.
00:53:01.380 Okay.
00:53:02.380 I need this to stand up like this.
00:53:16.100 It's not in the ground.
00:53:19.100 Hmm.
00:53:22.100 What do I have in there?
00:53:24.100 And I can help her at a different angle.
00:53:27.100 Yeah.
00:53:30.100 Wait, what do I have in there?
00:53:35.100 I'm not sure.
00:53:37.100 I'm sorry.
00:53:39.100 I'm sorry.
00:53:40.100 I'm sorry.
00:53:41.100 I'm sorry.
00:53:42.100 I'm sorry.
00:53:43.100 I'm sorry.
00:53:44.100 Three, four, two, three.
00:53:48.100 The rest angle, taking theуры.
00:53:51.100 Many have gone their shelves and found the rest of the map.
00:53:55.100 It depends on what they meant.
00:53:58.100 And it starts the wide.
00:54:00.100 See the doors.
00:54:01.100 The doors are called in theうんis.
00:54:04.100 At the gate, it won't wide.
00:54:07.100 See the screens that come up.
00:54:10.100 Who has a new one?
00:54:12.100 Look at this! I made it!
00:54:37.100 Wow.