Based Camp - Why Do Indians ＊＊＊＊ At Such High Rates？ Why Is A Country of Such Smart People So Poor？

00:00:00.000 Hello, Malcolm. I'm excited, I think, to be chatting with you today, even though we're

00:00:06.020 speedrunning our doom on YouTube because it's Homath, who's now going by Homath equals

00:00:11.700 PsychoMath on X now. Recently, quote-tweeted this 2025 post on the Indian concept of Izzat,

00:00:18.500 writing, please read every word, then go back and read it again. The Indian problem is set

00:00:24.080 to grow exponentially and initially skipping the write-up shared which portrays izot this concept

00:00:30.880 as a zero-sum system of collective honor that drives conflict and corruption and favoritism

00:00:37.360 and institutional dysfunction among indians i just went straight to the comments and maybe it was like

00:00:43.060 oh man this is racist i can't take this seriously but then it was like wait other groups criticize

00:00:49.260 elements of western culture all the time and when people do this westerners don't freak out or yell

00:00:56.460 racist in fact we often agree and then engage in discourse about it and well hold on it's not just

00:01:02.300 western culture like uh people constantly talk about how saving face creates major systemic

00:01:08.880 problems within chinese culture yeah 100 yeah this isn't just an anti-indian thing um but i i actually

00:01:15.560 think that racism becomes worse and we've talked about this just recently when people slap legitimate

00:01:20.080 critiques of bad behavior with the label of racism so what we're going to do okay is we're going to

00:01:27.380 read the write-up on izan it's kind of long so i'm going to take some choice quotes then we're

00:01:31.740 going to fact check it okay youtube we're going to fact check it and then we're going to review

00:01:35.960 posts critiquing facets of western culture that are problematic so that we can see you look this

00:01:41.960 is not a one-sided thing. This is a collective discourse that we all should be having, even if

00:01:48.480 we all sound a little angry at people when we do it. And then we're going to discuss all of these

00:01:52.920 cultural shortcomings with the same approach we discussed the failings of Western culture,

00:01:58.080 all from the perspective of cultural technologies and or traits that either contribute to or hamper

00:02:04.040 human flourishing. Okay, so let's get into the Ezot post. Hold on, hold on, hold on. That is a

00:02:08.400 lot of hand-waving Simone just did

00:02:10.280 to try to say, I'm going to be super

00:02:12.260 racist against Indians. I don't want to

00:02:14.240 beat him on it. Stop!

00:02:16.580 Simone, Simone,

00:02:17.440 I will add the caveat. I have actually

00:02:20.220 in real life never met an Indian person

00:02:22.340 I didn't like.

00:02:24.640 What about the Indians

00:02:26.100 who stole tens of thousands of dollars

00:02:28.560 from us? I never met them.

00:02:33.660 I never talked to them. That was you

00:02:36.320 who was communicating with them.

00:02:37.580 but i will say that there are problems like there are systemic issues that we need to address um

00:02:44.200 and talking about these issues is important to seriously addressing them continue simone you

00:02:50.480 you're okay it's gonna be okay okay on november 20 on november 2nd 2025 at x josh posted three

00:03:00.540 recent kiwi farm screenshots to x saying kiwi farms user breaks down izot the indian

00:03:06.940 subcontinent's cultural honor system it effectively explains every single trope about indian behavior

00:03:12.900 they all participate in an invisible clout chasing game that involves screwing over everyone as much

00:03:18.980 as possible worth the read and the screenshots show this post by gluttonous man slob very kiwi

00:03:27.440 farms i'm just gonna read some excerpts from it all right so we'll just jump right in the gluttonous

00:03:33.960 man slob typed we only have terms that can broach the same concept such as honor or reputation or

00:03:40.960 face izot is so much more than that it's a zero-sum game of collective honor shared by the

00:03:47.300 whole groups of people all of whom take it very very seriously a system like this isn't just

00:03:52.880 foreign to enlightenment values but i'd argue it's antithetical to every sensible form of

00:03:57.480 governance on the planet. It will destroy any system that assumes good faith. Izzat conflicts

00:04:03.180 are not about who is right and who is wrong. It's about who wins and who loses. This means it's a

00:04:10.320 zero-sum game where just about any action is justified, including murder, to restore the lost

00:04:15.880 Izzat. Izzat is a limited social currency, and the easiest way to get it is to take it from someone

00:04:21.700 else. Winning is righteous in Izzat. Losing is unrighteous. This means that if someone

00:04:26.800 plays the game of ezot well enough they can get away with just about anything murder rape scamming

00:04:32.800 cheating stealing the only morality in ezot is the protection of your group's collective ego

00:04:38.860 the only appropriate response when your ezot is attacked is a complete destruction of whoever

00:04:45.080 insulted it two people get into an argument they might escalate but chances are it won't be that

00:04:50.160 bad i.e sorry i broke your garden gnome with two indians in an argument the stakes are always

00:04:55.280 deadly to Izot. Neither of them can back down, nor can they admit fault. Admitting fault is seen

00:05:01.480 as deliberately humiliating yourself. Not only that, but because Izot is shared, you're shaming

00:05:06.940 everyone who shares your Izot. So admitting fault or taking responsibility for a problem

00:05:12.660 is a form of social suicide. This means if the dispute was over something completely fucking

00:05:18.620 stupid or trivial, like a broken garden gnome, it could spiral into decades-long honor feud.

00:05:24.780 so i've got to i've got to already have a caveat here yeah because uh the moment you started

00:05:31.100 reading this i was like this is completely incompatible with a number of indian cultures

00:05:36.720 yeah at the concept yes and i um was like for you i was like this is like the opposite of jainism

00:05:43.340 like yes like a jain you would know that whatever is being described here is the exact opposite of

00:05:51.440 jainism um uh in every jain value um so i was like okay where is this actually in india so

00:05:59.800 izat is not actually practiced over all of india it is an arabic derived word it is particularly

00:06:06.760 in north india pakistan and bangladesh yeah but also malcolm keep in mind right um percentage

00:06:12.840 of world population indians are 18.3 percent of the world population pakistanis are 3.2 percent

00:06:19.760 of the world population. Janes are 0.07% of the population. So to be like, but Janes,

00:06:28.160 yes, one of the biggest things with the sweeping claims that what gluttonous fat,

00:06:34.860 gluttonous slob says, it's wrong to say this is universal. Also, this concept is such that

00:06:42.480 even if a small proportion of people- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

00:06:45.960 hold on it's not wrong to say that it's universal certain things you can say about a cultural group

00:06:51.080 or whatever but being aware that you're talking about a concept um uh that is mostly tied to one

00:07:01.540 group among a group that already hates each other right yes for real muslim and hindi indians are

00:07:09.440 like practically about to have a an ethnically civil war recently almost get there when we were

00:07:17.120 traveling with the kids there was something about that like a war was almost averted or whatever

00:07:21.440 remember they're always at the verge don't they do that play war every day at the border

00:07:27.060 you know what i'm talking about yeah so the the point yes but the point here being right

00:07:33.940 is you are severely kneecapping yourself if among your enemy troops like you're like these people

00:07:41.600 are our enemy and only 40 of those people are your enemy and the other 60 actually want to

00:07:49.400 murder that 40 yeah you have completely what are you doing totally what are you doing you are

00:07:56.140 throwing away your ability to actually win any sort of larger game by being myopically racist

00:08:03.260 uh in a in a bad way like i i i believe in educated racism if you want to learn about

00:08:10.180 another culture and how they're unique but don't confuse like the christian indians don't practice

00:08:15.960 the system either it's not practiced in their regions it's also not recorded in buddhist

00:08:21.420 communities stoking internal ethnic tensions is one of your greatest strengths when you are

00:08:27.780 we did this with the native americans like crazy why are you it up sorry but the point being is

00:08:35.400 that's how you actually win that's how like if you're actually playing any sort of game of like

00:08:40.880 i care about my ethnic group's best interest you undermine those best interests by saying

00:08:48.040 all indians are bad okay yeah you grow those interests by being like some indian groups we

00:08:55.100 get along with some indian groups are do you have cultures that are antithetical to ours and you go

00:09:00.760 to the indian groups that you get along with and you go hey indians who we get along with we do

00:09:06.360 trade we like each other a lot and you know what i haven't liked that group over there for a really

00:09:14.200 long time and they're like you know what we haven't liked them either and then we say okay

00:09:20.220 it's so weird I happen and Simone's looking into the distance but that is basically what

00:09:29.500 the United States has been doing with Israel for the past 50 years people are like why do we keep

00:09:36.460 giving them military technology I wonder this is also the strategy that America used very

00:09:42.380 successful with Native Americans groups that oppose you becoming friends with people who are

00:09:48.880 other than you in order to advance your own interests just because you have x or y cultural

00:09:53.880 difference are groups within your community that are sabotaging you and generally should be looked

00:10:00.460 upon with deep suspicion because it generally means they don't actually want you to win the

00:10:05.120 ones who say how could you form an alliance with this native american community even if you both

00:10:10.280 have a shared enemy in some other native american community anyway continue and it's also important

00:10:15.300 to remember that the relative difference you have was a group based on one in particular cultural

00:10:22.260 difference like say is that just because you're like i disagree with this cultural practice and

00:10:28.740 it leads to friction with my group does not mean that the two groups are totally incompatible it

00:10:33.300 just means you may need to treat them differently as we'll talk about later in this we have a travel

00:10:39.780 business. And every single time, and no, we've worked with thousands of clients from all over

00:10:45.200 the world. And we have dealt with very few scams, but literally every single time we have worked

00:10:49.880 with an Indian client, we have had them attempt to scam people. And that led us to implement

00:10:56.620 different policies around how we onboard our Indian clients. And that is just the way you

00:11:03.760 deal with something like this. For example, even if I have a problem with Azat, I might have more

00:11:07.820 of a problem with cultural groups that have norms around marrying children. And I might think,

00:11:13.240 no, that's really bad. Or I might have more problems with cultural groups that have a mandate

00:11:19.100 to eradicate my people, which Indians don't have. And some groups genuinely do that we also allow

00:11:25.940 in as immigrants. It's important to remember all these things relative to each other and not take

00:11:31.180 these absolutist positions of, I hate this group, or I hate this group, or I hate this group,

00:11:36.500 Because the people who take those positions, they end up doing more to isolate our communities.

00:11:43.720 Like, you can recognize differences in groups.

00:11:46.200 You can recognize problems within groups while still saying, like I get at the beginning of this, every individual Indian I have ever met, I have liked.

00:11:54.280 I shall continue reading from the, yes, admittedly very sweeping write-up, which I don't endorse.

00:12:01.900 I'm just reading it.

00:12:02.700 This is part of the beginning of the discourse.

00:12:04.500 Anyway, Izat, he writes,

00:12:06.500 is also the reason why police are reluctant to get involved in disputes because Izot is a zero-sum

00:12:11.800 game. All participants are involved in the game. If a policeman sides with one family over another

00:12:17.240 in an Izot dispute, this means he's deliberately taking the side of that family and dishonoring

00:12:23.220 the other. This marks him for retribution by the offending party. Without the parties being able

00:12:28.220 to be impartial, then centralized authority cannot effectively function. Let's say someone in India

00:12:33.460 complains about a broken water pipe. Instead of the problem being addressed, the official is

00:12:37.580 responsible for the water pipe, denies it's a problem, and counterattacks him instead because

00:12:43.360 daring to question his efficacy in his role was challenging his izot. So the official destroys

00:12:48.180 the person who brought the problem up. The water pipe never gets fixed. Izot is the reason why

00:12:53.460 Indian managers are so infamous for hiring more Indians. It's because from the manager's perspective,

00:12:58.260 he's hiring his position sorry he's using his position to gain an invisible social currency

00:13:04.060 merit and actual qualifications come second to that idea if he hired a westerner he would not

00:13:09.520 gain or even lose izot by doing so he has a very strong cultural incentive to not be impartial

00:13:15.760 meanwhile if he can strong arm dozens of indians into a company he is gaining huge quantities of

00:13:21.060 izot and his conspirators who owe an absolute debt to him it's not sorry simone i have to i have to

00:13:26.720 cut in here i i i misspoke i did more research it is actually also common among the hindi group

00:13:32.260 so the it's common among both the hindi and the muslim indians and it's not common among the jayn

00:13:37.380 and the christian indians well that makes sense um because when people say western they typically

00:13:42.620 mean christian and jayn is just like let's never sorry whatever the christian indians have been

00:13:48.060 there since the first wave of conversions there have been christian communities in india as long

00:13:53.060 as there's been christian communities in italy that why does that surprise you no but the point

00:13:58.160 i'm making it that's not western christianity is is an old religion in india it's not like

00:14:02.580 what i what i mean to say is when people are talking about western civilization they're

00:14:06.980 typically talking about christian civilization okay okay continue it's not uncommon to see

00:14:12.860 indians gloat about their success in the west and yes izat is very much a system that enables

00:14:17.540 short-term success. But the fundamental reality is that prosperity, oh, the fundamental reality

00:14:23.580 of that prosperity that these Indians find so attractive in the first place wouldn't exist if

00:14:28.160 the West practiced something similar to Izat. Our systems can exist only on the assumption

00:14:32.360 of good faith and not a majority of people exploiting them for destructive short-term gain.

00:14:37.440 On top of that, if an Indian causes his systems and companies he comes into contact with to

00:14:42.860 collapse, then he could just go back to India with his plunder. He has no stakes in the long-term

00:14:47.000 prosperity, functionality, or stability of these systems. These stakes are completely asymmetrical

00:14:51.680 in the Indian's favor. You all know about the infamous video of that Indian scamming a food

00:14:57.260 bank. Once again, winning is righteous, losing is not. By employing a clever means to God,

00:15:03.300 this is another concept he could have gone into, but he chose not to because it would be a whole

00:15:06.460 new can of worms. He successfully extracted more resources for himself and his family.

00:15:10.760 From the perspective of to God, the rule is not something to respect, but merely an obstacle to

00:15:16.060 the Indian's own gain. Since he cheated the system and wasn't caught, he is seen as righteous and

00:15:21.880 dignified man with the ISOT framework. Now, I can go ahead and fact check this right away because I

00:15:27.420 would normally have not believed this, but we can attest to this being an issue. Because one of the

00:15:31.580 businesses we ran had clients from all over the world. It had clients in the USA, in Spain, in

00:15:36.800 Italy, Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, Argentina, and yes, also India. And while we had occasional

00:15:42.180 issues with Venezuelan clients, typically who are getting in trouble by literally just trying to

00:15:47.280 help Venezuelans flee Venezuela. Like it was a constant issue. Um, but they were also like,

00:15:52.860 I kind of get it. And I think you can too. Um, the, the, the, the Indian clients we had became

00:16:00.160 such an issue that we had to completely change our client onboarding policies, um, in a way where

00:16:07.000 before we were able to trust our clients, basically with a whole bunch of things that we just had to

00:16:11.760 completely shut down after we were discovered by Indian clients. Um, so among other things,

00:16:17.480 they violated major vendor contracts of ours that we depended on for the business to function

00:16:22.560 such that we almost lost them entirely. Like those vendors were like, look, look at all this,

00:16:28.460 these horrible rules you've broken at scale to make a bunch of money. We're going to pull your

00:16:34.320 plates at this. It's it's sorry. This is like a very convoluted airline term, but like we were,

00:16:39.760 we were running a travel agency and these airlines were like, you will not be able to

00:16:42.780 book tickets with us anymore because of all this cheating. And it was because of an Indian sub

00:16:47.500 agency doing all this in our name. Um, one racked up over $60,000 in expenses in a way that was

00:16:54.340 obscured from us being very clever to got, and then disappeared, leaving us with the bill.

00:17:00.120 And we also started hearing from the direct customers of these clients of ours, these like

00:17:04.980 sub agencies that transacted in our name who were being totally scammed by them. And we're like,

00:17:10.260 oh, we can't, we can't do this anymore. And they were prolific in what they did.

00:17:15.800 Yeah. The reason we started working with them in the first place was because when they first came

00:17:19.140 on, they were like, oh, we're so professional. Let's be, let's work together. This is going to

00:17:22.460 be great. And they were really good with technology. And we're like, wow, what a great

00:17:25.100 partner. This is going to be fantastic because most of the agencies that we worked with were

00:17:28.260 very low tech. The volume comes in, it's high, everything seems great. And then all of a sudden,

00:17:33.500 And, you know, airlines, like we're, we're pulling your plates.

00:17:36.280 Customers are like, I'm, you know, you, you stole $10,000 from me.

00:17:39.720 And then like, you know, Oh, by the way, here's a bill for $60,000.

00:17:43.580 And then the client is like, this was horrible.

00:17:46.300 Zero remorse, zero remorse.

00:17:48.340 In fact, we had some instances where we tried to reconcile with some of these clients.

00:17:53.840 Cause like they gave us a lot of excuses and we gave two of them second chances.

00:17:59.540 You want to know what they did right after that?

00:18:01.480 Immediately did it again.

00:18:02.760 they immediately yes and that i mean i i genuinely didn't get it because i was like

00:18:07.600 no one could possibly be doing this on purpose that's crazy and then i read this and i'm like

00:18:13.220 maybe that was it you know well i think that this okay so okay i guess it's the hindis and

00:18:19.760 the muslims we keep out and we bring in the jayans and the christians okay this is the way

00:18:23.740 we handle it right uh well there aren't very many um there there um there's a lot of them

00:18:29.740 you forget how big india is uh it might be a small percentage of the overall population

00:18:35.540 okay yeah we're looking it up okay christians make up 2.3 percent of the total population

00:18:46.660 in india according to the official 2011 census of india that's about 28 million people

00:18:53.360 okay so in christian 28 million people you said okay so how many uh christians are in germany

00:19:01.340 okay fair fair good point good let's see how many christians are in italy's probably better

00:19:07.320 yeah i'll do it christians are in germany

00:19:15.340 38 million people 36 million in germany there are 27.8 millions that are like 28 million

00:19:24.060 in india so like not much smaller than germany okay fair fair then fair yeah india's big it's

00:19:31.400 big it's big and it's very diverse and very varied and the okay we're cool with the james

00:19:35.340 and the christians anyway um i i did block i took out a bunch of the um i'm skipping forward

00:19:42.400 he continues, the Western idea of merit is competence in a role. Merit in Izot is determined

00:19:49.060 by what lengths you will go to to achieve a goal with competence merely being one path.

00:19:54.700 It often becomes a secondary path as printing a degree that says you're qualified to be a jet

00:19:59.860 pilot is just as good as being able to actually fly a jet in the eyes of Izot. In other words,

00:20:05.220 Izot selects for appearance over authentic merit or morality. Now, this is funny because at first

00:20:11.120 i tried to use just to save on like tokens because we already pay for the subscription

00:20:14.960 i tried to fact check this using grok and grok's like well it's not it's not fair to say

00:20:20.640 that indians are just making up their pilot credentials but again you and i know they do

00:20:27.540 this travel industry about air india and i think that the writer of this like explicitly used that

00:20:34.320 example of a jet pilot qualification um in reference to air india regulators have repeatedly

00:20:41.960 cited air india for inadequate or falsified pilot training from unapproved simulators and skipped

00:20:47.960 monitoring requirements to outright fraudulent training logs with the most serious recent

00:20:52.880 scrutiny coming after the 2025 Ahmedabad crash and that is not the the only crash recently but

00:20:59.960 the air india is like famous like everyone in the in the industry just jokes about it being like

00:21:04.980 reckless india yeah for hell yeah as long as he doesn't get on an air india flight it's like oh

00:21:11.120 haha that airline that doesn't have real pilots um it's like a known open joke so i found it like

00:21:17.420 really alarming that grok was like well it's not no so she had to go to rfab.ai rfab.ai it's a site

00:21:25.860 we run and then go into productivity tools and then go into based ai and use the roads model

00:21:31.180 which we use for i had to use it for an episode recently because grok just cannot handle some

00:21:38.500 things um and if you want an honest ai roads is the only one in there out there like like

00:21:43.620 but it is actually good at dealing with these types of topics yeah yeah and i mean the only

00:21:51.340 reason i would have known that like grok was being so skewed was because i actually knew about the

00:21:55.000 or India's stuff myself. I was like, oh, that's not true. Anyway, he continues. Now, a counter

00:22:01.400 argument an Indian might make is, izat is a dated word, or we don't use that word. I like to compare

00:22:06.740 it to the word vendetta. Vendetta in Italian has a very specific meaning, a familial blood feud,

00:22:12.000 where revenge must be taken to restore honor, et cetera. This word would not exist if it didn't

00:22:17.020 reflect a specific facet of Italian life. Izat is no different. Hell, I've had to write several

00:22:22.340 paragraphs just to explain what the hell azat is it isn't an archaic term either it's well and

00:22:27.600 truly alive in the modern indian lexicon if azat were regularly discussed openly this would be

00:22:33.580 considered one of the greatest possible insults in the azat framework azat is why indians do mass

00:22:39.340 reports death threats false flags and other and various other unhand underhanded tactics when a

00:22:45.500 westerner exposes something they don't want people to see such as the poop throwing festival which

00:22:50.640 Tyler, Olivier are dead, if you remember.

00:22:52.700 If I knew something like that existed.

00:22:54.100 And they freaked out about it.

00:22:54.680 Is it part of your cultural history?

00:22:56.600 What do you, the response to it

00:22:59.280 made it look worse than the event itself.

00:23:01.740 Yeah, this person says to my earlier point,

00:23:03.680 if I knew something like that existed in the West,

00:23:05.220 I would say, wow, that's disgusting.

00:23:06.680 We should stop this.

00:23:08.000 But in India, the problem is not the point.

00:23:09.880 The point is the problem being exposed

00:23:11.560 and the perceived insult to Azat

00:23:13.560 from exposing the problem.

00:23:15.360 The water pipe never gets fixed.

00:23:17.360 This is the last paragraph I'm almost done.

00:23:18.660 With the West, the issue is that

00:23:20.040 it often fails to live up to its own ideals it is not a perfect system but we can course correct

00:23:24.860 and address problems pragmatically with azat indians live up to those ideals very very often

00:23:29.700 when you see the dysfunctionality of india remember that it's a feature of azat not a bug

00:23:34.420 any thoughts what i find very interesting about this is i think one of uh and and there's a

00:23:41.640 secondary explanation to this that we might do a full episode on one of the big questions you know

00:23:45.920 when you see these giant trash mounds and all these starving people in India and stuff like

00:23:49.820 that, uh, the question that you ask is why, uh, India isn't. Okay. I won't make a direct

00:23:59.720 comparison here. Let's say, um, when I look at Indians in the United States and how they often

00:24:06.900 perform, um, uh, when compared to other ethnic groups that post-colonization have become

00:24:14.220 considerably wealthy such as koreans or japanese or chinese um they are not particularly dissimilar

00:24:24.640 uh they often perform exceptionally we we live in a very dense immigrant community which is

00:24:31.040 awesome the kids are awesome the families are awesome uh it's it's a wonderful community what

00:24:36.240 she said because you were talking over me and it didn't come out um she said we live we malcolm

00:24:41.880 and simone live in a majority indian community our community is 70 indian um and it's like i feel

00:24:48.340 much better living in this community than in most communities because at least they're anti-woke

00:24:53.880 at least they're they're anti the the bs the schools are doing you know at least uh their

00:24:59.360 kids they're really nice sweet kids too we mostly know them because of their kids because that you

00:25:03.860 know yeah let's play together and stuff yeah um uh with all of that being the case and and i say

00:25:10.020 at least because there's other immigrant communities where i would absolutely be

00:25:13.680 terrified about that um uh so the the point that i'm making here is why is it that indians are

00:25:21.220 successful in other countries but their own country has failed to build a civilization

00:25:27.520 at the level of something like what korea or japan has done um and the answer this would answer a lot

00:25:35.140 of that uh if this is commonly practiced by the dominant ethnic religious cultural group the

00:25:40.960 hindis which it appears to be um then it's a big problem for the country continuing to develop it's

00:25:48.160 it's something that is going to lead to issues um that is that is really sad and i and i think

00:25:54.540 you can see that like it is genuinely perplexing how india is still so poor however there is a

00:26:00.760 secondary answer as to why india is so poor which you may also not be familiar with is it oh i mean

00:26:06.520 i assume that the average person listening to this is going to be like well that's because

00:26:09.720 brahmins are immigrating and you're only seeing one small facet of india's whole that is also

00:26:14.300 true brahmins are quite genetically distinct from other groups in india they are as right and if

00:26:19.820 you want to take a leftist framing to it these people have inherited wealth and systemic advantage

00:26:23.860 yeah if you it was we don't take that if you a brahmin is genetically distinct from a non-brahmin

00:26:32.000 as a german is from a greek and like nobody expects a greek to work

00:26:36.560 good people good people they're greeks and greeks are just jews without money so like

00:26:43.740 we're really going for it today aren't we malcolm i've got it i've got to do the greek

00:26:48.840 patreon and sub stack ladies and gentlemen please help please send help um uh uh but yeah the um

00:26:58.900 the point i'm making here okay the point is is yes the brahmins are part of it right like that

00:27:06.200 we definitely get the cream of the crop of india or at least at a point in american history we got

00:27:12.800 the cream of the crop of india and those are the friends that i grew up around and you grew up

00:27:16.780 around that's not necessarily true of the existing immigration wave right now where you have a much

00:27:22.020 larger immigrant groups coming over um but the secondary issue is um that when india began to

00:27:32.100 build its own society after they the british left and typically british colonies do really well

00:27:38.260 um like america canada south africa australia um and the more they move away from a british system

00:27:45.860 like south africa attempted to the worse they do um but uh so india was really set up to do quite

00:27:52.080 well um and uh the the uh reason hong kong another one that did really well uh is when the british

00:28:02.040 left they decided like psycho idiots that british colonism meant that colonism was tied to capitalism

00:28:12.300 And so what they wanted to do

00:28:14.080 Was be something other than capitalist

00:28:15.800 But they also didn't want to be

00:28:18.180 Fully communist

00:28:18.860 And so they developed a socialist system

00:28:22.340 That was

00:28:24.500 Incredibly damaging

00:28:26.200 To their economic development

00:28:27.460 Where you would have to get like

00:28:29.720 48 forms to like just

00:28:31.960 Start a business or like change something

00:28:33.980 About how your business operates

00:28:35.260 Or just move goods and stuff like this

00:28:37.760 It was just like paperwork

00:28:39.600 Upon paperwork for everything

00:28:41.020 and they only dropped it in like the late 80s so they're basically starting from like

00:28:46.580 square one pretty recently

00:28:49.340 fair enough yeah want to get to the fact checking yeah all right because i really i had to i wanted

00:28:59.700 to make sure everything here and i wanted to know what this other word is that he talked about oh

00:29:03.720 it's basically just cleverness um and resourcefulness but in a way that can lead to a lot

00:29:09.540 of scamming because it seems to be not more to morality but i mean i think there are similar

00:29:14.000 concepts that you'll see like in the jack tales i mean yeah jack is kind of a not very nice

00:29:20.400 sometimes you know like mom gives him money to buy something and he gets magic beans and then

00:29:26.040 he kills the giant tails morality yeah is in jack tales morality um the person who you wrong

00:29:34.280 typically needs to be invading on your land or property or your region or think they're better

00:29:39.120 excuse me the giant in the clouds was or think they're better than you they think they're better

00:29:45.100 than you is a big one better i mean he wanted to eat him um but the uh the the um and it's not done

00:29:53.600 for status in the community it's not that you you know you might get money for your family right but

00:29:59.580 it certainly wouldn't be something that other people in the community would lodge you for like

00:30:03.560 jack is never lauded as intelligent by other people in the community um he he gains no form

00:30:09.280 of status for his feats he does it just with people uh but much closer to 4chan than uh is

00:30:17.320 odd um fair enough yeah it's it's it's effing with people for the for the sake for the zen

00:30:24.780 of effing with people yes yeah to use a millennial term because we're old

00:30:30.440 i just love that i love being old oh i can't wait until i'm 62 anyway truth baby true yeah me too but

00:30:38.880 you're gonna need to help me out tonight i'm having some pretty severe cramping and

00:30:42.540 i'm bleeding a little and i'm really worried so help me out i need to go to bed early just like

00:30:47.720 maybe rest in bed uh so sadly she did end up having a miscarriage and uh we yesterday went

00:30:55.320 out and uh buried the baby and um we'll obviously keep trying um this will be number six for us so

00:31:04.340 we've been very blessed and that's something that we should continue to be appreciative of

00:31:08.620 but we ended up taking most of the day off today for the first time in god at least five years

00:31:14.940 maybe maybe since i married you're taking a day off uh but uh yeah obviously still making sure

00:31:21.620 you guys get an episode every day i'm not going to break that that chain since we launched the

00:31:25.700 channel like and subscribe if you appreciate that we try to make sure that happens uh as to whether

00:31:33.740 or not we'll do an episode on it we might the reason we may want to do an episode on it is

00:31:39.420 because emotionally this affected both of us much more than the death of our moms um which happened

00:31:45.440 at different times in our marriage and uh that surprised us is that is a real south asian concept

00:31:51.200 of honor and family reputation and social standing it is real there there's peer-reviewed research on

00:31:56.880 it i've linked to it in the show notes which are on sub second patreon it's especially uh the social

00:32:01.840 standing matters in the context of the family the clan the caste or the community rather than just

00:32:07.940 the individual it's used across regions in northern india and pakistan and bangladesh

00:32:12.920 a 2017 deli toilet urination case that opi cites in his write-up which i didn't bother to read

00:32:20.420 is real it involved this man named ravinder kumar who was an e-rickshaw driver um who saw two men

00:32:29.060 two young men urinating outside and he offered them a few rupees to use a nearby public toilet

00:32:35.340 instead of peeing in public and they left and then returned with a group and then beat him to

00:32:41.060 death. And that is, is, is an example that he cited of, of. That's severe. Like how could

00:32:49.700 your country operate like that? That is a question. Yes. Um, that is, that is a real

00:32:54.800 question. And when I heard that story, I was like, well, that's probably going to be one of

00:32:57.680 those unsubstantiated anecdotal things. No, definitely not. Of course, we all know about

00:33:01.840 the backlash that happened when Tyler Oliveira went to the Indian poop festival. And what I find

00:33:07.060 so funny about that too was he was very explicit in the video which i've seen that this is a small

00:33:13.280 isolated village it's a very small population it is an esoteric and weird festival he wasn't like

00:33:19.280 oh this is a holiday that all indians celebrate he never said that which is why it's so weird

00:33:24.760 and unhinged that a lot of indians had that reaction to it that they did um also the food

00:33:29.680 bake videos of indian international students do exist like of them being like look you can just

00:33:35.280 take food from this and it's free were quite controversial when they posted them clips from

00:33:40.860 canada ireland and elsewhere showed students sometimes explaining how to access university

00:33:45.800 or community food programs using resources some of the cases were framed as scams others were

00:33:51.380 official student supports debates followed about need versus opportunism um i don't think these

00:33:57.720 students actually needed them to god which is this concept of improvisation and workarounds

00:34:02.540 and sometimes cutting corners is a very real term

00:34:05.740 with both positive connotations like,

00:34:08.700 oh, this is just frugal innovation and negative.

00:34:11.720 Uh-oh.

00:34:13.380 Sorry, I'm reading my notes.

00:34:14.480 Where did I cut off?

00:34:17.180 Oh, you did.

00:34:17.900 Okay, buddy.

00:34:18.540 We're almost done recording.

00:34:20.800 That is so cute, a pumpkin.

00:34:24.840 I got it from Edwin's.

00:34:32.540 mom oh they had a pumpkin garden and they want we have this a pumpkin guy no a pumpkin garden

00:34:39.500 that's a homegrown pumpkin yes so pretty some some of them has been one of these have been

00:34:47.960 two of these have been eaten by a deer a little too but not that one yeah i like that you put it

00:34:53.980 i wish we had for fence now we'll get some more buckets oh no the pumpkins we have growing are

00:34:58.700 inside the fence so we're gonna be okay i love you buddy glad you had fun yeah i have actually

00:35:03.480 had so fun and i got to play with some of edwin toys at his house wow that's hard and one of his

00:35:11.840 helicopters oh i love the way you say helicopter has some cool things i've okay go on can i have

00:35:20.820 my phone uh it's on your work desk okay oh no no no don't sorry don't go in there though because

00:35:27.940 text is sleeping so i'll bring it down as soon as i come down okay no he wakes up tell him his

00:35:32.600 game consoles on the stairwell it's not anymore though oh okay your game console is on the bed

00:35:38.100 in the hallway if you're very quiet you can go get that okay very quiet yeah you can get your

00:35:43.080 game console yeah so don't go all the way into the office where you and i work just to the hallway

00:35:50.180 he's comically

00:35:52.820 tiptoeing now

00:35:54.600 there he goes

00:35:58.620 is he gonna be quiet enough

00:36:00.160 oh

00:36:00.980 okay go ahead buddy

00:36:04.480 you can do it

00:36:05.560 there he goes

00:36:08.040 look at the comical

00:36:10.880 what is he doing

00:36:12.800 it's not necessary

00:36:14.940 anyway okay

00:36:18.100 oh

00:36:20.180 where was i right so this this concept of to god improvisation work around sometimes cutting

00:36:29.260 corners is a real term that sometimes people view very positively like you're being frugal you're

00:36:34.680 being innovative but sometimes very negatively like this was a half-baked shortcut you're bending

00:36:38.820 the rules um and i'm sure that is kind of like the way that the for example agencies that were

00:36:46.200 completely missed okay go go go play thank you very much you are extremely welcome that you can

00:36:54.540 thank daddy for all that um go enjoy your chips and your pumpkin and i'll see you downstairs very

00:36:58.960 soon actually i want to make this for halloween that's a perfect idea it's pretty soon it is

00:37:04.380 okay go on friend i love you um i'm sure yeah the the agency that had almost lost us one of

00:37:14.280 our top vendors um was just like what we're just being creative they're stupid rules anyway um

00:37:20.160 because it was sort of this complicated way to get a flight way cheaper than you should um that is

00:37:26.020 explicitly banned by airlines but they have to catch you or you can get away with it basically

00:37:31.320 but they do catch you especially when they need to make money and these days they're desperate for it

00:37:35.020 anyway it's a thing um also networking and and favoritism in some indian tech h1b circles is

00:37:44.000 very widely reported. It is just objectively true that Indian nationals dominate H-1B visas.

00:37:51.400 There are documented patterns of regional caste and language clustering, allegations of Indian

00:37:56.680 managers performing co-ethnics, visa holder exploitation, and at least one major lawsuit,

00:38:03.220 which I didn't know about, with Cognizant, the company Cognizant, finding discrimination against

00:38:08.060 non-Indians uh so immigrant ethnic networks are genuinely common across groups we've done whole

00:38:14.920 episodes on this um meaning that if we just want to attribute this to izot it's kind of speculative

00:38:21.500 but you could you could say it plays a role because you know we we did that episode on

00:38:26.140 ethnic cartels you know this this this isn't this could explain how Indians act as a more

00:38:31.600 effective ethnic cartel than most other ethnic cartels in terms of dominating tech companies

00:38:35.500 Well, no, actually, you know, I actually recant that. So ethnic cartels, uh, as a little, um,

00:38:41.400 reminder, they don't act like a normal ethnic cartel. They act very, I will explain an ethnic

00:38:46.680 cartel is where a, an ethnicity, um, takes on an industry that is typically very, very underpaid

00:38:54.600 and very unglamorous in the, in, in the host country. So things like running a nail salon,

00:39:00.040 running a laundromat running a donut shop running a 7-eleven running a motel right no one aspires

00:39:06.920 to do this in america and when you when the way this works is okay well this immigrant family is

00:39:11.820 happy to come in and do it and also bring in through chain migration a bunch of family members

00:39:16.920 that they then make work at these businesses often for under market or no pay at all because

00:39:24.020 they're basically sponsoring their immigration to a you know a smoother to live in country

00:39:27.960 which gives them a very real strategic economic advantage in the market which is how they end up

00:39:35.520 being these cartels why there are the patel motels in these indonesian indonesian nail salons

00:39:41.140 or is it the donut shops anyway like they are very distinct things but what we see with the h1b visas

00:39:47.160 is instead indians are moving to very prestigious very in-demand companies and then chain migration

00:39:55.040 sort of takes place from that but not like google or something yeah like google yeah so it is it is

00:40:00.220 almost the opposite of an ethnic cartel where they are they're underpaying and undercutting

00:40:05.740 the the family that they're bringing in and working in very unprocedious yeah so actually

00:40:10.360 no i think this is more of an esot thing yeah you know what and that that original

00:40:15.080 couching came from my original grok fact check which i was a mistake to do i'm not going to do

00:40:21.160 They have to use Rhodes now for everything.

00:40:23.060 Yeah, I'm going to be using,

00:40:23.840 well, I mean, we're using the website

00:40:25.200 for recording and editing these episodes now.

00:40:28.120 You know, RFAB does everything better.

00:40:30.760 Just slowly replacing it all.

00:40:31.700 If you're still not,

00:40:32.800 one of the things that you should use RFAB for,

00:40:34.860 if you're not, is if you do vibe coding

00:40:36.300 and you're not using the RFAB API,

00:40:38.160 you are being an idiot.

00:40:40.500 It allows you to have the code,

00:40:42.520 like when it reaches a point,

00:40:44.060 call you and say, hey, I'm done.

00:40:46.700 Even if it's just a regular Fable model,

00:40:49.060 even if you just give the RFAB API,

00:40:50.880 you make a developer api on it and you give it to fable fable can now call you and be like hey

00:40:55.560 what do i do next so you can vibe code while you're on a walk um you can uh add pictures to

00:41:01.320 a website like you see across the rfab website really nicely really easily you can add video

00:41:05.840 loading animations like we have across the rfab website really quickly really easily

00:41:09.300 you it can even write in a way that looks like a human road by using a api that we have access to

00:41:17.160 that has access to human checking stuff.

00:41:19.900 So it runs that automatically

00:41:21.700 and then it iteratively runs

00:41:23.660 until it gets something

00:41:24.420 that can't be picked up as non-AI.

00:41:28.220 I'm sorry, as AI.

00:41:29.800 It's super cool.

00:41:30.820 I love it.

00:41:31.640 But mostly it's for storytelling

00:41:33.160 and story interaction

00:41:34.220 if you want to do that, yeah.

00:41:35.420 Let's get to where he's been quite inaccurate.

00:41:37.640 As you pointed out right at the top,

00:41:39.560 he did treat Indians more as a monolith

00:41:42.920 and didn't point out, for example,

00:41:44.320 that Jains wouldn't do this,

00:41:45.480 christian indians probably wouldn't do this and that he just sort of is like it's universally

00:41:50.120 practiced um and also it is fair to say that like even if you have a culture that practices

00:41:56.660 is odd that doesn't mean that you're gonna like kill someone over a garden gnome i mean he's he

00:42:01.660 gets a little extreme um but he was wrong about indians actually simone there there are a lot of

00:42:08.920 killings tied to is actually well and also there's i don't know people in the thread were like oh

00:42:13.780 this explains why this guy jumped off a cliff because he couldn't pay his cell phone bill and

00:42:18.440 things like that. I don't, I don't know though. I don't know. You want to, I will get into the

00:42:24.120 other part, I guess. Okay. Yeah. Get into the other part. Yeah. First though, I want to get

00:42:29.040 to the stuff that's not true. That he says, oh, Indians will say like, you can't discuss this

00:42:36.380 when at least according to peer reviewed academic research is not an undiscussable

00:42:42.040 term it's it's not one of the greatest possible insults it appears routinely in news literature

00:42:48.380 activism and everyday speech so it's not like this unspeakable thing um and i mean there is

00:42:55.920 also plenty of documented evidence of police addressing crimes in india it's not like zero

00:43:00.940 crimes can ever get solved so that's a little extreme but beyond what just op says and it's

00:43:05.640 kind of surprising that he doesn't mention this because typically when when i did research on the

00:43:10.080 concept of izot they don't mention any of the things he mentions they just mention the honor

00:43:14.860 killings like you can see this one piece of peer-reviewed research called for the sake of

00:43:18.600 family and tradition honor killings in india and pakistan which explicitly identifies izot

00:43:23.500 as a central framework that helps explain and justify honor killings in india and pakistan

00:43:27.740 which are so intense this is a quote from their abstract the united nations population fund

00:43:33.120 estimates that the annual worldwide number of honor killings is as high as high as 5 000

00:43:38.580 women and girls, though some non-governmental organizations estimate as many as 20,000

00:43:43.140 honor killings annually worldwide, which is deeply disturbing. Also from the abstract,

00:43:49.200 despite limited statistics, research shows that honor killings occur amongst women of different

00:43:54.980 ages, religions, and social status, wealth, education, and location. And other experiments

00:44:00.380 found that high caste rural North Indian men showed more retaliatory attitudes to slights

00:44:05.980 then low caste men admitting error can carry social cost and status conscious settings. So

00:44:11.440 not just like women doing the wrong thing. And police and officials sometimes handle community

00:44:16.700 matters poorly due to all of this and fear of escalation, including against them. So

00:44:22.520 it's kind of funny to me that he's like, oh, this is like, it's horrible, like the chain

00:44:28.020 migration, blah, blah, blah. But he doesn't mention the possibly 20,000 and at least 5,000

00:44:33.360 women and girls a year that are murdered because of this like okay i get it like this is kiwi farms

00:44:40.260 and we're not all about like violence against women or whatever it's too woke coded but like

00:44:45.380 that's kind of a big deal i think just a little so let's get to the point that look

00:44:56.000 all cultures are criticized on social media and this is not about singling out indian culture

00:45:03.980 so let me give you some examples here's an african diaspora poster um he goes by

00:45:10.720 he does a crying laughing face emoji three times these people are impacted by the west and western

00:45:19.640 ways the american environment is imbalanced and toxic anti-communal community they certain blacks

00:45:25.980 are looking through western lens and not african lens western equals individualism african eastern

00:45:31.980 equals community communalism slash family oriented quote the child who is not embraced by the village

00:45:38.520 will burn it down to feel its warmth end quote so that's a legitimate and and fine thing to to

00:45:45.340 discuss that would be fine if the problem wasn't bigger in india than in america this is an african

00:45:52.140 poster well yeah the the point being is the complaint oh he's talking about indians in

00:45:58.560 africa no no he's talking about this isn't i'm what i'm trying to say i i'm i'm now going through

00:46:03.920 a series of examples on x of people from other cultures criticizing western culture explicitly

00:46:10.560 to say that like this isn't a unidirectional thing that happens on on on x where like just

00:46:16.960 white people sit there and dunk on other cultures. And when people do, he's saying white people go

00:46:22.680 to Africa and do that. No, he's, he's trying to say that, um, a lot of black people are

00:46:30.480 spoiled, impacted by Western individualism, which is in his view, a, a blight upon society.

00:46:40.880 as he says wow yeah it leads to such terrible societies with such low rates of crime and murder

00:46:48.120 and corruption and we well look so japan is very collectivist and they are an extremely safe much

00:46:54.420 safer than the united states country so uh you know it can work for some people some people wear

00:47:00.800 it well you know we don't we don't have murder vans that come to your house that's that's a

00:47:06.000 china thing that's not a japan thing oh japan i said japan japan okay um but here's here's

00:47:13.240 another example this is an indonesian chinese poster with uh some kind of kanji and then

00:47:18.820 lianamon um saying ironically instead of empowering a person individualism is more

00:47:25.480 likely to destroys a person's purpose in life you don't have to you don't have any goal except

00:47:32.200 worldly hedonism don't ask again why so many folks are easily depressed and become antisocial

00:47:37.700 when this is the value of your society he's pointing to someone's post reading society

00:47:41.880 is based on self-interest so again like both africans and indonesia like they're objectively

00:47:48.780 wrong the more individualistic parts of europe and america are the more economically and

00:47:54.600 technologically productive and i appreciate that you're saying that because you're like this is a

00:47:58.280 discourse that we can have instead of saying, wow, look at that racist African. Wow. Look at

00:48:02.960 that racist Indonesian Chinese person, because this isn't about racism. This is what works better

00:48:08.040 for society. Is individualism better or is collectivism better? Right. Instead of going

00:48:13.060 straight to identity politics, you're like, no, let's look at what's downstream of individualistic

00:48:18.300 or collectivist cultures and have a discourse about it. And that's exactly the point I'm trying

00:48:21.520 to make. When people attack Western culture, it isn't like, oh, how dare you attack our culture?

00:48:26.820 it's more like i don't know what produces the best results maybe we can work at it from that

00:48:30.900 perspective one video posted by at vera booty who's a canadian chinese man often labeled the

00:48:38.220 chinese historian in the replies um walks through how western hookup and drinking culture wrecks

00:48:43.500 family formation and women's long-term outcomes he links casual sex and campus date rape alcohol

00:48:49.280 fuel decisions etc let's let's see how china is doing on that stuff how is china doing in family

00:48:56.260 their drinking culture is actually pretty intense uh it's yeah no china's just like strictly worse

00:49:01.580 in family formation than the west i get i get it this is true but you're not like oh my god he's

00:49:06.660 racist against westerns you're actually like no this is a genuine problem like drinking uh and

00:49:11.460 hookup culture is i agree not good and look you also suffer from it so let's all talk about how

00:49:16.180 to get over it um and they'll there also are indian accounts that repeatedly frame western

00:49:20.780 culture as the vector that broke, as they put it, family discipline. Here's Ishbat197 saying,

00:49:28.240 it's all because of following blindly to Western culture. Families are broken, no morals, no values,

00:49:34.280 freedom, fake feminism. Also, Dr. Van Nostrand, RSD270 wrote, this entire thing, such shows,

00:49:42.440 the kind of humor, this dating and hookup culture is all adopted under peer pressure from the West.

00:49:47.620 this doesn't come naturally to our society and it shows only those unswayed by this will survive in

00:49:52.820 the long run rest will drown in degeneracy so they're calling us djms and we agree with that

00:49:59.040 it's like we're like okay that's a valid criticism from an indian poster on x um so there's another

00:50:06.720 one shall putri um quarter life crisis that is to say at shally putri gd wrote don't need to say

00:50:14.820 all their names sorry um she quote tweeted someone saying dear women never ever i repeat never ever

00:50:23.380 discuss your past with your husband or your would-be husband some things need to go with

00:50:27.360 you to your grave or else there's such a big chance your partner will make sure he digs a

00:50:30.960 living grave for you with whatever you shared with him out of pure honesty and trust no one has

00:50:35.600 the maturity to understand relationships and the life choices of a woman um and then she uses some

00:50:41.220 hashtags indicating that some woman was honor killed by a man which is already kind of a self

00:50:46.180 own of your own culture but she retweeted that saying western feminism brought indian women

00:50:51.320 about sexual liberation but failed to impart them the faustian with this faustian spirit

00:50:56.760 of anglo-feminism white women hoed openly and didn't give a fuck about what society thought

00:51:02.420 of them well meanwhile women here want to hoe and still be perceived as satisavitri which i

00:51:09.300 guess it's probably something she was she basically she's saying i want to hoe so bad why can't well

00:51:13.780 she no she's basically saying like so one one woman posted basically women never tell your

00:51:19.980 husband about your sexual history because he probably will honor kill you and then another

00:51:24.880 indian poster is like no indian women are being corrupted by western culture which is making them

00:51:30.760 slutty and it's western culture's fault um not the fault no she clearly wants to be slutty like

00:51:37.180 the way she wrote that didn't come off like there's there's posters who write things like

00:51:42.120 what you just said okay she didn't write it that way she wrote it like why can't i be more why is

00:51:49.380 the west doing more to protect us so we can be sluttier oh dear i don't know uh well i mean the

00:51:55.320 first one was but not the second one the the one who quote tweeted the second one yeah um but yeah

00:52:01.280 I mean, so we absolutely own that hookup culture is bad and we would probably fight back against critiques about individualism.

00:52:09.960 But we would never say that a critique of American or Western individualism is unwarranted or something that we're not ready to discuss this concept of like not.

00:52:20.300 We don't discuss this.

00:52:21.480 Yeah.

00:52:21.860 Yeah.

00:52:22.020 Like how, how dare you accuse Indians of this concept of Izod and, and, and hate it. That's

00:52:29.820 racist is, is toxic because it is, I mean, so think about it this way. Like, I don't think you

00:52:36.340 or I will be comfortable doing business with recent Indian immigrants for a very long time.

00:52:44.060 And that's pretty screwed up because we've had that tens of thousands of dollars stolen from

00:52:50.440 businesses when we chose to trust and then trust again. Um, and that's pretty screwed up. And if

00:52:56.660 we could instead have open discussions about these dynamics, I mean, one, like if I knew about this

00:53:03.780 to begin with, we could have designed our commercial arrangements in a way that would

00:53:06.980 have prevented the risk from taking place in the first place. Um, well, and we wouldn't trust. I

00:53:11.980 mean, I think the biggest takeaway from this is that I would never trust an Indian twice now.

00:53:15.620 Like the idea of like, you trust them once they screw you over and then you give them a second

00:53:19.300 chance and they screw you over again like there's no point in giving the second chance exactly like

00:53:24.080 that's a that's a much uh bigger and more specific that and just vet them and put them

00:53:29.760 in positions where they can make fewer like bad actions exactly but like that's not a place that

00:53:34.880 you want to be but it's a place you have to be when we do business with people from everywhere

00:53:39.440 on earth and i i think actually every one of our indian clients has done something illegal

00:53:45.200 uh eventually i don't think we've ever had one that didn't that is correct uh for the travel

00:53:50.180 business at least i don't think i've i mean so to keep to be clear these were all first

00:53:58.380 gen generation immigrants or actively in india um yeah so i think we've done a lot of work with

00:54:04.400 indians in general but we didn't see them as indians because they were fully americanized

00:54:09.520 so we were like we're not doing business with an indian we're doing business with an american so

00:54:14.520 we wouldn't have like mentally classified them that way but this was different because these were

00:54:18.580 very clearly in india and our first generation yeah but yeah that it was yeah it was it was just

00:54:25.720 it was so pervasive it was one of those things of like this can't be happening right like

00:54:30.120 they're not allowed to do this you're not allowed to stereotype like that are you um isn't there

00:54:35.760 like a law against that you know like i thought you couldn't anyway um but uh you know stereotypes

00:54:44.400 exists for a reason right um and oh that's the problem is is if we can't talk about that if we

00:54:49.840 can't talk about patterns or systemic issues that take place with certain groups one we can't

00:54:56.000 criticize them to the point of maybe eradicating them because they're not doing favors to those

00:55:01.040 groups again the point of the problems not the groups it's like what if you are a recent indian

00:55:05.980 immigrant who's trying to get off your feet in a new country and you mean well um and no one is

00:55:11.440 willing to work with you because everyone who came before you who was from your country

00:55:15.180 burned every your entire cultural reputation you know what what if you for example are like a jane

00:55:22.020 or a christian indian who also doesn't practice izot right like but clearly as is shown here

00:55:29.840 people are like all indian every single last indian practices izot and will screw you over

00:55:36.460 forever or zero sum blah blah blah like that sucks for them um but because we can't talk about

00:55:42.040 it pervasively a bunch of people are going to hold that view because we're not talking about

00:55:45.660 something that Indians need to understand like if you're like where's all this hey if you

00:55:50.800 understand American culture when you push back on reasonable criticisms in American culture

00:55:56.080 that makes the topic bigger that makes people talk louder and more aggressively yeah it's not

00:56:03.840 just the streisand effect it's it's bigger i think on a cultural level it's something bigger

00:56:08.140 and louder than the streisand effect any group that says you're not allowed to talk about x

00:56:14.620 thing that i'm doing that's like a negative externality for society to white americans

00:56:19.300 and not even just white americans more broadly because like i know that leaflet feels this

00:56:22.900 as well it's anyone who's adopted american culture we typically are just like that multiplies

00:56:29.360 whatever the issue is that's why i know the tyler olivier poop video right i don't follow him i would

00:56:35.560 have no reason to know about that i know about it because people tried to complain about it and shut

00:56:41.040 it down oh yes and then of course you need to know what it is well i need to know and talk about it

00:56:45.380 it's catnip how could they do that yeah um that's fair well i guess maybe it's it's something like

00:56:52.680 when you smell potential hypocrisy you get like super excited i don't know if that's a uniquely

00:56:56.820 western thing i think it might it might just be a part of american culture i think that is it

00:57:01.580 yeah the the um it's part of like wild west culture is part of backwards culture is part

00:57:07.080 of it like a large swath of american culture and we just love yeah like you you you want to be like

00:57:13.340 flies to poop like we love talking about that stuff and it always it's like a proportional

00:57:21.120 response thing you try to shut down a reasonable conversation you get a proportional response

00:57:27.600 multiplicatively above the first response yeah um and a lot of groups just don't get this

00:57:33.640 uh and i i fear the indians might be one of them because they don't understand

00:57:39.320 if if they keep addressing this the way that it's been addressed because i've talked about

00:57:44.220 this was jews addressing things poorly as well in a similar context anti-indian sentiment in

00:57:51.040 the u.s is going to become extremely mainstream um uh and i think it might be too late for that i

00:57:57.160 mean at least in canada it's way too late for that and i think a lot of that might be downstream of

00:58:04.060 the groups that were immigrating en masse um because i think specifically it had to do with

00:58:09.440 a lot of functionally not honoring the spirit of the law around um getting a degree in order to

00:58:19.500 get residency like people were just going to like diploma mill scam unis instead of actually

00:58:24.760 studying and trying to bring something to the country and then it brought sort of the wrong

00:58:28.720 type of person like not someone who was looking to work hard but someone instead who was just

00:58:32.660 looking to kind of cheat the system so i think maybe that's why india speed ran or sorry canada

00:58:39.120 speed ran anti-indian immigrant sentiment because they got a totally different group than what the

00:58:44.760 united states has been getting since like the late 80s i mean i don't know like i grew up with

00:58:49.620 friends in the in the early 90s who were whose parents were recent indian immigrants and they

00:58:55.440 were amazing you know like biotech workers amazing people but also like definitely early like

00:59:01.200 fresh off the boat kind of early immigrants because that's that was my friend one of my

00:59:05.300 friends for example who had her arranged marriage and she was like in the third grade i'm like oh

00:59:11.520 okay i mean you kind of take these things at face value in the third grade you're like yeah right

00:59:16.340 of course yeah you're you're well we've got to learn from that we got to find some arranged

00:59:21.240 marriages for our kids i know see get them fed up i bet you she's your only third grade classmate

00:59:25.980 who got married other than still happily married honestly no because the mormons married too and

00:59:31.620 she has three or four lovely kids um so yeah my mormon elementary school friend is married

00:59:36.960 oh actually and then another one um asian immigrant parents because one kid so only the

00:59:44.680 only the immigrant kids mormon mormon friend four kids i think that the arranged marriage

00:59:51.600 friend has no kids i haven't seen at least any in social media um yeah interesting ranges

00:59:59.840 very interesting ranges yeah anyway all right well i appreciate you bringing this up simone i

01:00:04.580 I found this to be a very fascinating topic.

01:00:06.700 I want you to get to bed as soon as you can.

01:00:10.060 Yeah, I'm.

01:00:12.220 Simone, one, keep in mind, they said you should expect blood.

01:00:15.600 They did.

01:00:16.140 They did.

01:00:16.620 It's just, it also really hurts and it's gushing.

01:00:19.860 And so it still makes me nervous, right?

01:00:22.160 Like they told me this was going to happen.

01:00:23.520 So I'm not like freaking out.

01:00:24.820 I'm not like we need to go somewhere.

01:00:27.060 But no one wants this to happen because it's very disconcerting.

01:00:33.620 um i i know the cramping is scary but i remember you experiencing cramping in the last early

01:00:39.900 pregnancy as well um and i i know it's but there's nothing we can do right like all we can do is get

01:00:48.440 you to bed as early as possible how can i help with the kids what can i do to help um just really

01:00:54.320 really help with getting them up i mean it's really dinner super easy time because i'm just

01:00:58.040 like reheating leftovers for everyone so i'm just gonna do that super fast i'm just gonna hope that

01:01:02.740 they don't require extremely violent wrangling for a bath because that typically is required

01:01:10.100 every single day that's an issue then you call me down and i will handle it yeah because it's

01:01:15.120 really simone like i don't know if i can stand up right now seriously i will handle it okay

01:01:20.000 thank you thank you a lot because it's like distracting levels of pain i think maybe i'm

01:01:26.500 being such a i'm being a wimp about this because i don't usually get like bad cramping with periods

01:01:31.460 and then so this is i'm like what is this this is this is what women experience anyway

01:01:36.900 all right i gotta go and i love you very much i love you too thanks for helping me out really

01:01:44.000 appreciate it so fried rice tonight fried leftover fried rice nothing better i mean that's it's like

01:01:51.740 it's designed as a leftover food i mean it's supposed to be started with leftover rice and

01:01:56.600 leftover ingredients and then you know and octavian has discovered that he just loves lo mein i'm so

01:02:04.220 glad i'm glad that um he's at least one of our adventurous children unlike those who you know

01:02:12.100 indy for such a long time would just try anything and she was so genki and the way she ate her food

01:02:16.940 and then suddenly she just has decided performatively because she likes to be rebellious

01:02:22.820 now that everything's disgusting like she used to wolf down our homemade popcorn i gave it to

01:02:28.280 her last night and she's like it's just like performance i bet she just loves being a dick

01:02:35.040 like yes because she's so sweet like by nature that it's like she's discovered some new technology

01:02:43.100 like what is this strange witchcraft that i can do that is i can be cruel amazing

01:02:50.500 she'll she'll look at me when I'm changing her diaper and she'll say you are a poopy head

01:02:56.380 you are a poopy head picking it up from her brother than sister you know it and I've got

01:03:02.920 them to stop saying it because I'm like I do that you know the third law of physics which is

01:03:07.220 I am rubber your clue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on to you that if you call

01:03:12.760 someone a poopy head that means you're a poopy head but Indy being two years old doesn't know

01:03:18.660 that and so she just looks me in the eye with the sweetest little smile saying you are a poopy

01:03:25.460 head but so the way she says everything is just so cute my Bible change my bottle everything is a

01:03:32.740 beat that's actually bottle anyway all right are you ready for this I yeah let's get racist here

01:03:39.980 I don't know what I'm gonna do with us we really are speed running YouTube again anyway we're not

01:03:47.040 saying anything that's not true we're exploring genuinely other cultures in ways that are brash

01:03:52.540 and sometimes border on insensitive but i think are for the sake of of humor and delivering these

01:03:59.100 ideas to an audience that otherwise wouldn't find them palatable no that otherwise it

01:04:04.040 is like these these are human trash we need to destroy them we need to remember those really

01:04:10.480 great orb lights we used to have in peru what lights those orb lights that would glow and change

01:04:17.500 color were so cool they were very durable oh yeah i do remember those big and plastic and super cool

01:04:27.820 think we should get some for the kids room i yeah because they keep disassembling and breaking

01:04:32.660 every single light that's in there and any other light they have access to like you know the two

01:04:36.680 lights in the sunroom in the kitchen the ones you have my permission you have my permission

01:04:39.960 they're even somehow able to damage the lights hanging from the ceiling i'm gonna wait for prime

01:04:44.840 day uh we're sort of on a we're not buying anything again until prime day or sorry cyber

01:04:50.320 monday or whatever you know when amazon goes crazy around so for octavian um uh and torsten

01:04:56.780 do look at booking them in for camp uh and books this far in advance yes it is very hard to get in

01:05:04.480 it books far in advance you have to do an application the kids have to do an application

01:05:09.480 it's not a oh they just go because my dad's willing to pay for them right like i'm picturing

01:05:16.500 that scene from legally blonde with our kids in the hot tub being like oh

01:05:21.740 we're we're perfect for this camp that's that's so stressful man bougie parents must really

01:05:29.200 my um cousins their lives my uh my uh no no sorry nieces and nephews actually didn't get in

01:05:35.540 to camp seagull or camp longhorn single seagull of course they got into longhorn because of all

01:05:40.460 the collins family uh but camp seagull yeah like camp seagull is hard to get into it's the harvard

01:05:46.460 of summer camps the harvard of summer kids i love my life has just been too posh it's disgusting

01:05:53.300 what did you you what do you do there you sail to what do you play lacrosse do you i mean of course

01:05:59.140 collect antiques of course you sail on antique yes literally that is one of the things you do

01:06:05.960 is sail on an antique schooner okay like whatever you can check it out yourself too

01:06:09.560 it was just the other kids you disgust me oh i hate bananas they were all over my island when i

01:06:18.500 was a child you i there's no there are no words there are no words um anyway hey hey hey hey at

01:06:29.060 least i didn't inherit any money okay yeah the deposed prince that's how it's oh yeah at least

01:06:33.820 at least you get the full narrative arc you get the full narrative arc we hope that the arc bounces

01:06:40.440 in the other direction before the entire outside of our house rots speaking of begging for money

01:06:46.680 on patreon we do offer weekend episodes and would love to see you guys on patreon or sub stack

01:06:51.200 actually yeah we have a lot of fun with weekend episodes they're super fun

01:06:56.260 and thank you for everyone who subscribes like we you guys are awesome and we like emailing with you

01:07:01.860 and oh is it okay if i book a hangout for this weekend i need to book our yes you may well keep

01:07:07.540 in mind that i am doing a leaflet call this friday friday but what if we do it sunday it's fine if

01:07:13.540 you don't do it friday again okay okay i won't do it again i promise look i did anyway long story

01:07:20.340 we're not gonna go into it shall we you ready we shall and i am ready you better hit me i'm not

01:07:28.180 ready racism fire hose like you did on that last one looking at the first-hand accounts from aid

01:07:35.640 workers and i was like oh my god simone what are you doing you cannot

01:07:42.540 you're the one who kept calling being an aid worker in south america easy mode

01:07:51.020 south easy mode in comparison to what

01:07:53.860 well i said in the episode that i got groped more in china than i ever was harassed in south

01:08:01.400 america and i certainly got hit on you didn't mean in relation to china i did literally i

01:08:07.380 haven't traveled in africa aside from briefly with you and we were so isolated it didn't matter

01:08:12.340 so that doesn't count you know like it really doesn't count anyway we'll get into it here we

01:08:17.800 go oh really does she have puppies

01:08:21.160 right there they're so cute does she take care of animals

01:08:32.340 yeah do you really like her

01:08:38.600 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Based Camp - August 28, 2026

Why Do Indians ＊＊＊＊ At Such High Rates？ Why Is A Country of Such Smart People So Poor？

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