01:23:56.240We're not going to get into the details on the hacking.
01:23:58.260There's been a lot of people saying how the hack occurred, makes sense, you know, archaic technology, just it's held together with duct tape and gum.
01:24:10.340Almost all posts and 4chan were Israeli intelligence contractors pretending to be USA.0.56
01:24:15.600Assad has been running an absolute massive propaganda campaign on the American internet.
01:24:19.620So what would the American, what would that look like?
01:34:55.100And my point is that if just saying that is too lowbrow, if that is too obvious, if that's not massage enough for mainstream acceptance, then I don't want to be a part of it.
01:35:09.700Because they would say, well, that's too direct.
01:35:12.740You know, that's too, you know, old school.
01:56:30.940It sounds like they're almost trying to do a country western version of like a song to
01:56:36.660appeal to americans but it's still just the same chinese song you would imagine in your racist mind
01:56:42.760yeah it's really strange like just come up with like a racist chinese song it's like that but
01:56:48.960it's also with a banjo now if you do not care about the logo you just want the same quality
01:56:54.820same material you can just buy from us because for our backs we use exactly the same material
01:57:00.400same leather same hardware same edge oil so it's got the it's got the ed chinese edge oil
01:57:08.020there you go they got that over there you can't even get edge oil over here right now
01:57:14.620it's just causing an epidemic so i just saw that and then i saw you know this article in news week
01:57:21.480because i saw that and it smelled fishy to me but it seemed to align with a lot of people's
01:57:27.500prejudices about the fashion industry writ large which is that oh all this stuff is made sweatshops
01:57:33.980and they just put a logo on it so it's good that they're blowing up their spot okay sure
01:57:38.780maybe people hate the fashion industry or they don't understand it i'm not an expert but i also
01:57:43.820looked at that and said this is a deeply untrustworthy head shape like that guy just seemed
01:57:50.300like he seemed like a sweatshop owner and he's like you'll buy from me you'll never regret like
01:57:56.460there's something off about your aura and also i know that they're fucking liars all they do if0.93
01:58:04.140you're a factory owner in china i assume you're lying about whatever it is you're producing it's0.96
01:58:09.660my job to figure out what specifically you're lying about yeah right so what's your read on
01:58:14.060that situation it's 100 right so i've dealt with that exact guy literally this guy because there's0.73
01:58:19.34010 million of that fucking guy and that guy exists in a world of deceit deceit is all you0.52
01:58:26.300knows and he is a sweatshop owner and that's why his hair looks like that um and what's going on
01:58:31.160is he's losing his factory because of the tariffs and he's trying to rationalize to people on
01:58:36.720fucking timu why they should pay a 300 markup on something that previously was only 40 bucks
01:58:44.960now this isn't a judgment on the statement that uh you know designer italian bags are or are not0.91
01:58:53.060made in china they probably are but this motherfucker isn't the one making them and i've
01:58:57.300said before because i've been there and i've seen this shit there are super high-end factories in0.88
01:59:02.360china the video of that guy that was not one of them that was worse than my factory that0.74
01:59:08.640motherfucker is poor he doesn't make shit so he just wants your money but the the funny thing0.81
01:59:14.700is how many people buy this and i don't know what like you're just not exposed to the world i guess0.85
01:59:21.440you don't know what people look like so you'll you'll watch that and be like oh maybe he's telling0.94
01:59:27.720the truth but yeah you see a fat guy a fat chinese guy of that age with that haircut he is trying to1.00
01:59:34.400rape you yeah also it seemed like a phenomenal self-own communicating to people it's like you1.00
01:59:41.960think that thirty thousand dollar handbag is worth three thousand dollars guess what it's produced0.97
01:59:47.140over here by me by my stupid fucking chinese ass and uh so you should buy it for me and what0.98
01:59:53.800they're really communicating is like no that means that i'm mad at the brand but i'm also0.99
01:59:58.060mad at you like i'm not gonna buy from you i'm gonna go to the brand and say make it so this guy
02:00:03.740isn't involved at all as if anybody who buys those bags as if anybody who pays 38 grand for a bag
02:00:10.320is concerned about the quality and the edge oil come on like this is but again don't don't treat
02:00:17.560this guy with so much respect as to think that he is actually rational in the same way that you are
02:00:23.080he is a desperate animal trying not to i mean if he fails this he's gonna just throw himself on the
02:00:29.140top of the building right well also there's some bags and this is just on newsweek we're looking
02:00:35.100right now um they're going with the line you know they take almost finished bags from china
02:00:40.300and they just do the repackaging but there are many luxury brands that actually are produced
02:00:46.660entirely in france in italy like like they say because it's literally not difficult at all to
02:00:53.920produce them and for that value they could be like it doesn't make any sense there's no reason for0.92
02:00:58.740them to produce them in china the only people who produce in china are people who are scraping the
02:01:03.940margins of profitability yeah you have to believe that and again i'm not a fashionista but i do
02:01:09.420believe in you know craftsmanship and it says right here hermese hermese for the part do not
02:01:16.200manufacture bags in china they make their bags in fucking france it takes between 15 and 40 hours
02:01:21.000to create a single bag so that's one of the reasons that you know it's it is inflated but
02:01:25.940at the end of the day you might want to say that oh all these bags are fucking bullshit okay sure
02:01:31.600maybe i don't get them they're not for me but there is a craftsmanship involved and there's0.74
02:01:37.600this narrative that's like oh no chinese people do it because they're trying to sell you that0.85
02:01:41.640chinese factories can produce at that same level and the fact that matters they fucking can't0.73
02:01:46.500well again they can but not that guy they they can but not that guy i had some interview with0.64
02:01:54.620tim cook and he was saying that the reason they have the factories in china is is not because
02:02:01.060the price is because their skills at tooling are so advanced compared to whatever they can get
02:02:07.620anywhere else and they're there because the chinese manufacturers that's like that's like0.99
02:02:12.420saying that's like saying um we need to import immigrant labor because there's no there's nobody0.96
02:02:17.780willing to work what you mean is there's nobody willing to work at the at the wages you're0.70
02:02:22.340offering and likewise with china they're saying it's the most advanced tooling on earth well it's0.92
02:02:27.300It's the most advanced tooling on earth for that price point.
02:02:30.540So yes, they do have tooling in China that approaches the sort of most advanced tooling on earth that to my understanding exists actually in Italy and Germany.
02:02:41.600But you can't quite get all the German tooling that you would get.
02:02:45.640You can't get it in China, but what you can get is something pretty close and it's at a discount.
02:02:49.860So if you need bulk, high quality stuff done, you can get it done in China and it is discounted compared to Germany.
02:02:55.620but to say that they're good at anything is fucking ludicrous because everything that they
02:03:01.420have the technology is either stolen or purchased from europe or america and everything there is0.51
02:03:08.720commissioned even if it's their own technology they don't know how to operate it it's commissioned
02:03:12.480by your generally by europeans not by americans but by europeans and and also keep in mind just
02:03:17.860to bring this back to the chinese let's keep this within the handbag example that these factories
02:03:24.200are kept in live exclusively by the Western middle class because if you
02:03:29.360think of what a luxury bag represents yes it's like a 30 50 thousand dollar
02:03:33.740purchase that's for the upper echelons of society they're always going to buy
02:03:37.580that because it's a status symbol because it is well-made but a lot of
02:03:41.480these factories aren't producing those those are produced in France what they
02:03:44.840are producing is not necessarily knockoffs because the brands will
02:03:48.980actually commission them but they have sort of the middle-class versions of an
02:03:53.360Hermes bag which is attainable for the middle class right and the middle class
02:03:58.820there's so much consumer like high grade stuff is brought down at their level
02:04:03.380but it's that entire glut of society but if they just decided to stop buying
02:04:08.060them or if the markets weren't being flooded with them I don't think we
02:04:12.080would miss it you would still live in a world with expensive luxury goods there1.00
02:04:16.220would just be fewer up like if these Chinese factories disappeared let's just0.99
02:04:20.420the tariffs persist forever you would have fewer nice bags for stay-at-home moms but maybe that's
02:04:29.940okay maybe that doesn't matter you know i mean like maybe we don't need more consumer packaged
02:04:37.140goods like that whole middle class thing there'll be less options but maybe we don't need more
02:04:43.060options if it came at the cost of keeping this sweating loser in business across the world0.92
02:04:50.180it's also not so cut and dry because on the if you say on the one hand of the spectrum you had
02:04:55.060your case which is to say that if the tariffs stay on forever then all of those middle income
02:05:01.060medium products would disappear and those those consumers wouldn't get them the i think the
02:05:05.780reality would be somewhere between that and literally nothing changes because a lot of what
02:05:13.140goes on economically in china is slave economy and what we know historically from our
02:05:19.300own example as north americans from rome from elsewhere the slave economy actually undermines0.99
02:05:25.620the ability to automate and innovate and improve production so the existence of chinese garbage0.98
02:05:31.940coming across is and as much as i hate trump he's correct in some sense that preventing chinese1.00
02:05:39.780garbage from flooding the market will actually allow over a long period of time industry to come0.99
02:05:46.740back and you will find not you won't replace all of it but you will find a new niche market
02:05:52.500of you know medium quality goods that are now produced in the u.s that weren't produced before
02:05:57.160and it's not going to replace all of it but it will it'll replace the upper maybe the upper half
02:06:01.620or the upper third of that market absolutely we were talking about this in the chat the other day
02:06:05.840i'd recorded a real secret coffee hours episode on this in fact i'm just going to throw this up
02:06:11.400on screen right now if people want to subscribe to our paywall show real secret coffee hours it's
02:06:18.920on gumroad it's on patreon give that a look but i just did one on an article that we were discussing
02:06:23.880in the community which was what if we made advertising illegal and just puzzling that out
02:06:29.660what it would look like and a lot of people think advertisers are driving a lot of this
02:06:35.380shit that you see and they're responsible for advertisements but a lot most of the time it's
02:06:40.260businesses themselves and the clients so do we have too many advertisements or do
02:06:43.700have too many businesses that's a much harder question and also if advertising goes away
02:06:50.500what fills its place and i said a real problem that's either undiagnosed or underdiagnosed is
02:06:57.860the fact that um if you look around in your life right now you and me and most people we actually
02:07:04.660don't see that many ads not like we used to i think the peak would have been maybe the 60s
02:07:09.220but if I pay attention to my life I don't really see a lot of billboards ever
02:07:13.900anymore online ads aren't really that present like they used to be but there's
02:07:20.980still obviously paid promotion what's stepped in as advertising as decline in
02:07:25.780popularity basically paid sponsorships and influencer marketing so what is
02:07:31.240driving that well part of it's the advertisement but part of it is more0.57
02:07:35.980people than ever just being fucking prostitutes i think i made a joke that said you know the second0.71
02:07:41.740oldest business in the world is probably advertising the first is being a and0.98
02:07:47.820we actually need to solve for the whore issue because if advertising goes away tomorrow0.98
02:07:52.060we haven't solved for the problem of us all of our friends actively right now trying to find
02:07:58.380sponsorship from brands that's what every influencer is trying to do they're hungry for
02:08:02.780brand sponsorships they're hungry that's what X is by the way guys if someone's
02:08:07.160trying to make money selling takes on X it's basically the same thing they're
02:08:12.620whoring themselves out for controversy but hoping to get money off it so
02:08:16.460there's a darker rot in this society advertising kind of a low-hanging fruit
02:08:21.200to to pick on but like deeper than that it's the monetization of relationships
02:08:27.340and that's maximized in the technological age so anyway I forget where I was going with this but
02:08:34.540yeah I'm just looking at the chat right now hold on here we go Bill Wilson I'm late because I had
02:08:42.700to get in the house on about China they weren't even able to make a ballpoint pens until a few
02:08:48.160years ago do the machining needing for the tiny ball bearings in the cartridge use is that true
02:08:53.260as a factory that sounds about right that sounds like i don't know if that exact example is true
02:08:58.440but from my experience working with them that is exactly the sort of thing that is true of them
02:09:03.780they're great at copying things mostly because they don't give a fuck about the rules they just
02:09:10.280copy it and if four people die in the process and it still doesn't work they can always change
02:09:14.200their name and move to another town and that's how they operate so they will try anything and
02:09:18.560the simple stuff works but there's a lot of stuff like i'm saying a lot of stuff at the higher end
02:09:23.620they're capable of doing only because their labor and resources are cheaper but the technology
02:09:28.280and the ability to manage it not just to commission the plan talking about commissioning
02:09:32.780like setting up the equipment calibrating it programming it is all done by europeans and
02:09:37.440then the actual management is often still done by europeans because they don't have them the
02:09:41.940organizational ability to handle it and that's not i'm not saying there are no cases of them
02:09:46.100but i mean you look at europe all of european industry is run by europeans you look at chinese
02:09:50.980industry the top one percent that keeps the thing chooching along is european and has always been
02:09:56.380yeah let me just add a couple of things here vitalis says walks into a grocery store sees
02:10:01.580thousands of ads simultaneously this is the problem i was getting to that people are just
02:10:06.440calling visual pollution ads like basically what you're saying is packages on products are also ads
02:10:12.500i was going to push back on the same thing though like i mean i think it's a it's a semantic thing
02:10:17.700but for me like when i was making that argument in the chat the other day that is what i was
02:10:22.120talking about that when i walk the grocery store is a great one because i under like we can say
02:10:26.560that's an ad or it's not an ad but when i go there's like an end cap on the aisle at the
02:10:30.520grocery store and instead of that end cap being a product it's a full-size image of a woman with
02:10:35.940a low-cut shirt holding a yogurt so to me that's an advertisement and i don't want to see that i
02:10:52.520Because then you're actually getting away from what an advertisement is, which is a paid placement, which is like a billboard, a commercial, which people hate.
02:10:58.980But then it's like, well, it's in the news, too.
02:11:00.740Okay, so it's actually news and academia.
02:11:02.500What you're saying is you don't like this system.
02:11:04.660But let's just be careful what we're saying here.
02:11:06.400If you're saying that everything's corrupt, well, then let's talk about the corruption.
02:11:10.180but not just saying advertising that's kind of low-hanging fruit and if you're like someone
02:11:14.760to mention before you know the real problem is advertising in the form of pharma executives
02:11:20.560lobbying the government okay that's not fucking advertising then guys you're just you just don't
02:11:25.440like corporate corruption so really what you have a problem is with businesses so if we take the
02:11:29.700example of i walk into a grocery store and i can see a thousand ads so what you don't like is that
02:11:34.880there are thousands of products each one of those products has a label like an ad so if the argument
02:11:40.240is that there's too many products okay but let's actually make sure and if that argument is that
02:11:45.220there's too much visual pollution okay i'll steel man it here i don't think there's anything wrong
02:11:49.560with anybody putting whatever the fuck they want on the package of their own product i was talking
02:11:53.820about end caps like when i walk into the shop the end cap which is like you know two and a half feet0.76
02:11:58.920wide six feet tall you know bent out label on the end of the aisle is showing something which has
02:12:05.820somewhere on that one percent of the surface area is a product and the rest of it is a fat-titted1.00
02:12:10.760black woman that's what i don't that's what i don't like and it's not because it's a black1.00
02:12:14.560woman necessarily but it's because like can't that just be products i'd like to see the products0.99
02:12:18.780show me the products right but you're not you're showing me hey if i want to be happy and enjoy1.00
02:12:23.340myself i should be a fat black woman well here's sex treatment i'm talking about the indirect
02:12:28.020payments to be clear like if you know the gaming review discourse for example he's talking about
02:12:31.700gamergate of course and i agree completely but that's kind of what i was talking about before
02:12:35.620which is that the real issue is that there's a huge amount of people that want to be prostitutes
02:12:42.440for corporations so the idea buying gamergate was you you're a game company you've got a product
02:12:47.860i need to get reviews out there it turns out i've got 20 000 people who don't even want to be paid
02:12:55.560to review the ad they actually just want the game for free and i say okay here you go and because
02:13:01.820they're so excited and jazzed about it they're going to give me a positive review so on one hand
02:13:06.820i'm not even buying a review but it just there's a sea of independent journalists who are basically
02:13:13.800reporter prostitutes who are if you give them a free funko pop they'll sing your praises to their
02:13:20.520audience of 50 000 people it's it's it's worse than advertising what i'm saying so what i'm saying0.80
02:13:25.280is advertising is paid placement of your message in a space it takes up space it's ugly it annoys
02:13:33.480people but if we're just saying all and that's why i divide it i separate from propaganda
02:13:40.220it's like propaganda advertising all the same well no propaganda is actually much more nefarious
02:13:45.340advertising advertising is a specific edge case of the problem and it's unfairly maligned when it
02:13:53.040is actually only one of the many tendrils of a larger issue well because the the question was
02:13:58.320what would happen in society if advertising was out a lot and i said well here's what would happen
02:14:02.560we would see more money pour into these other things which aren't even technically advertised
02:14:06.720right unless you're unless you're saying that advertising also includes loud packaging that
02:14:13.680is made to because it's like advertising is emotional emotionally manipulative like well so
02:14:18.000politics okay well that you know politicians advertise themselves too okay so right along
02:14:22.680politics good KOLs on social industry not KOLs yeah yeah KOLs KOLs on social media could entirely
02:14:30.540replace advertising overnight if advertising was made quote-unquote illegal because KOLs are doing
02:14:35.200the exact same thing it's just a different mode but if you made it if you made like radio ads
02:14:39.020illegal if you made like ad reels on YouTube illegal you just have more KOLs well and this is
02:14:44.800yeah exactly and someone said like a happy ad merchant because i work in marketing i'm saying
02:14:48.720the advertising is pretty much dead like it's almost dead already a lot of the stuff we're
02:14:52.800complaining about it's the evolution of messaging along other channels that's going beyond just like
02:15:00.960it would be more quaint and it would be easier for us if it was just very clearly i'm paying
02:15:08.800for a message here's the message you should buy this hammer or whatever but it's if we're starting
02:15:14.560to define advertising as just incentivizing your message to an audience to amplify to their audience
02:15:24.240i mean that's that's people trying to go viral on x too you know i mean like if we if we get too
02:15:29.760vague with the definition then we're all in the guillotine at that point anyway it sounds like
02:15:34.400i'm defending ads i'm just saying ads suck but you can understand ads and that's why when we talk
02:15:39.680about propaganda you you're hoping that if you make advertising illegal the propaganda disappears
02:15:45.680yeah i'm saying it's not going to disappear you're hoping that if advertising goes away
02:15:50.240you know only fans disappears you know what you wouldn't you uh platform never really advertised
02:15:56.400much was only fans you know what platform never advertised was uh like tinder and grinder they
02:16:01.840don't really have a marketing budget and yet and yet you know what i mean anyway continue i think
02:16:07.120the larger thing and you said this earlier it's a matter of pollution it's it's like a visual or
02:16:12.880like a noise pollution thing that bothers us because somebody else and somebody else in the
02:16:17.200chat had said hey i wouldn't mind the ads if only the ads were like it was bibles or like it was
02:16:21.660doing with like yeah no i get what you're saying it's not the concept of selling a thing it's that
02:16:26.720the way that you're doing it is damaging a shared environment in a way that literally everybody is0.82
02:16:32.480mad about and yet you're still allowed to do it because libertarianism or fucking something0.94
02:16:37.020right because oh it's a it's a private space i can put what i want to know fuck you you cannot0.86
02:16:40.880put that there so yeah i mean i would be totally happy with saying it's not about advertising it's0.77
02:16:45.680about it's about like visual or like this the pollution of the public space and ted lafaro
02:16:51.940asks is propaganda advertising can government run ads about joining the army well propaganda
02:16:56.600would be different than running army ads because you can look at it like we all laugh at army ads
02:17:02.340and that's why army recruitment's down.
02:17:04.100But if you look at what propaganda was classically,
02:17:07.300when we were talking about Edward Bernays
02:31:15.620it's a it's a real moment why don't we do that uh why don't we do that for uh briar's ice cream
02:31:23.920and then the creative director who is stoned out of his mind and it's wednesday morning he's like
02:31:30.700okay like yeah i like that i've seen that that's interesting okay how do we make that work they've
02:31:37.000already accepted the premise the premise they should have rejected because it doesn't make any
02:31:40.540sense it's like how do we make that work so you start seeing advertisers they just follow trends
02:31:45.220they don't really set trends they just so the idea is by the time an advertising agency
02:31:50.660is trying to make hay on this it's done it's not cool it's over you know what i mean yeah you would
02:31:58.260see like then there's these these things like vice vice live lives in between vice was at once a
02:32:05.300publication and an ad agency and so their thing was to try and create a trend and monetize it
02:32:10.420immediately buzzfeed is like that too but the collapse of those organizations was very interesting
02:32:16.340to me because you wouldn't have these hybrid organizations anymore which was like how much can
02:32:22.340we monetize a journalistic organization or how culturally relevant can we make an advertising
02:32:29.860agency it was one of those things and different companies came out from different angles and the
02:32:34.900fact that those fell apart you know spectacularly at different times tells me that it's really just
02:32:41.140advertisers and space now they try these experiments to see if they could fuse them and
02:32:45.860just people have a distaste for it i think vice is still around but you know i mean it's it's not
02:32:51.620where it once was so anyway we have to get going now i'm just trying to check the uh
02:32:57.140richard advertising the concept of spring i know it's it's funny you could even say it's dystopian
02:33:03.700i suppose um steve buscemi with a skateboard all the way down says facile goose agreed um
02:33:13.740sex frequent kind of crazy how met it is we got accustomed to ads so you can just make one with
02:33:18.340spring flings the brand name in the corner your eyes will automatically zero in on the brand so
02:33:22.540it works and here's what's interesting and this is why i said ads are dying it's because and you
02:33:28.720will experience this if you live in an urban center especially a big urban center my immediate
02:33:34.320one would be toronto but i've been in new york too so if you and think of it pittsburgh i don't
02:33:38.500give a fuck how much of your day do you spend canceling things out of your vision you probably
02:33:44.620don't think about it yeah but this is one thing i was getting at before where are we grouping0.79
02:33:50.180storefronts as advertisements fair question the kind of act is advertisement but it's also their
02:33:55.720property. Why can't they advertise the storefront? Right. Okay. You know, but as a man, I'm speaking
02:34:02.840to you, obviously you don't look at that and you've trained yourself. Like I'm not going to
02:34:06.780look at that. I know there's a billboard there and I'm purposefully not looking at it. It's totally
02:34:11.420subconscious. It's just Pavlovian and you do that on. So even sex frequent, they're saying like
02:34:16.940you're kind of drawn to the ad. I think the case is that more people have trained themselves to
02:34:23.100ignore ads in very dynamic ways like you I can't this is what the billboard guys
02:34:29.520don't want to tell you and I've worked in billboards for like a couple of years
02:34:32.760and the people people very aggressively do not look at billboards yeah it is
02:34:39.480flushing money down the toilet people very angrily ignore radio ads it's very
02:34:46.920rare that they're tuned into them it's like they just train themselves to like
02:34:50.160I'm making a point to toot out of this out of spite and there's more people0.70
02:34:55.860Trait like younger generations. They're just in a different wavelength. This stuff works on boomers. Obviously0.96
02:35:01.860boomers watch commercials, but Millennials and down they've just
02:35:06.900Adopted the different programming so advertising just doesn't even enter into their world and that's hard to explain to some people however
02:35:14.360Influencers do however, you know all kinds of other shit does especially if they say, you know
02:35:21.540We're not gonna work with that agencies
02:35:23.260We're gonna work with the individuals who want to make themselves into an ad agency1.00
02:35:26.880Which is every woman on OnlyFans how many women went on OnlyFans to be a whore?1.00
02:35:32.260Found that they couldn't make money with their butt and vagina and now now they're open to whatever1.00
02:35:38.080Maybe they're still an OnlyFans, but now they're the tire company sponsoring them, right? They people are in a0.95