00:27:06.860And she listens to podcasts by bummy loser women.1.00
00:27:12.460There's something about the way most women consume media where when guys consume media, if a guy wants to get in shape, he will listen to guys who are fit.1.00
00:27:25.180now this can get you into trouble where you start listening to like entertain liver king guys but1.00
00:27:29.600you know most guys will like i'm going to find a fit guy and emulate him or get to know him or
00:27:34.420that will be the guy my guru or whatever you want to call it but women the women who want to get1.00
00:27:40.140married never listen to married women they only listen to like bitter single moms that and that
00:27:48.340seems so counterintuitive and i explained that to her and it just it was like a revelation for her
00:27:54.240and i would say this to like women in her because there's a lot of women even are seen who have like0.53
00:27:58.020oh this is the trad wife show i'm like go fucking listen to that go go listen to the woman who is0.80
00:28:03.620living the life that you apparently want to live yeah that that seems obvious to me but if you just1.00
00:28:10.500listen to single like mean single moms you're only gonna get you're gonna end up like a mean0.64
00:28:15.860single mom do you want that even they don't want that you know they're supposed to be telling you
00:28:22.020how to avoid that but they can never say that they made a bad decision in their lives right
00:28:26.060right but uh but with i see them on tinder and i see how much of like they put all of their trust
00:28:34.700into just this app so if they were served and they'll talk about like all these guys are like
00:28:40.180all the same like what's with all these guys i'm like it's built they can never break out of it
00:28:45.740they just can't find it they don't know how to break out of it yeah see when i was in my early
00:28:51.54020s and this before all this like i went through a phase like when i was like 19 and we just 18
00:28:57.280when we just hit the big city you and me and i'm like i was single because i'd broken up with my
00:29:03.460girlfriend and i was single and i wanted to meet a lot of ladies i wanted i wanted to sleep around
00:29:08.760and party and shit and so i had to figure figure that out i would just go around and go to clubs
00:29:13.340and like go and kind of we'd meet these circles of people and you just gotta you gotta learn to
00:29:18.200get what to get out of it and then you're thinking well where do i pick up girls so a lot of guys
00:29:24.360struggle with that like well i would i would do i would do it everywhere i would learn i'm gonna
00:29:29.020try to pick up a girl at a library or on the subway and i would do that because i'm like well
00:29:34.660that's what i i want to i want to get girls so i gotta gotta get good at it but so this was pre-app
00:29:41.820so if you don't have that app like i don't think anyone would know how to go and do that
00:29:45.740and i hear the girls all the time say like where do you meet guys i'm like there's guys everywhere
00:29:50.520home depot go on the go go yes go to i heard that actually have you heard this yeah i've seen it it's
00:29:56.200hilarious i've seen the meme where like women are dressing in their tardiest outfit and and like0.99
00:30:02.580wandering around looking like a guy looking for hoping a guy will help them in like the fucking1.00
00:30:09.040by a fucking socket wrench looking utterly lost totally out of place ladies i'm testing out a0.99
00:30:17.540theory today i've heard that this is the place to find hot single men and at this point i'm0.98
00:30:21.260desperate enough to try anything so let's go figure out what i'm pretend shopping for i don't
00:30:25.320know what do you get at home do you go like a ficus you're picking the wrong times i'm telling
00:30:29.540you i've done this before you're going on the weekend there that's when dads go with their
00:30:34.440wives and pick out curtains that's not where the single guys are they're there seven o'clock in
00:30:39.580the morning monday through friday they're usually there with a buddy and they don't have time to
00:30:43.540talk or they're there after work tuesday wednesday thursday four o'clock five o'clock on the way home1.00
00:30:49.200picking up some project that they're working on for them miss me with that gay shit nigga fuck1.00
00:30:53.360out of here fuck you me fuck but this is also an immediate like you're in a me too world you're in1.00
00:30:58.380world of your own creation you didn't push back on me too when i here it is now no guy's gonna1.00
00:31:04.700talk to you yeah prompted yep yep sorry not happening you know like i if i tried to pull
00:31:12.340what i pulled back then now i would be in jail and it would i wouldn't it's not for any crime
00:31:18.380it was just for like harassment or something because you say you strike up a conversation
00:31:22.460that's how you used to meet people you can't so yeah even guys like even if they want to
00:31:27.240and i'm not trying to blame anyone it's like from a guy perspective like if you don't have a contract
00:31:32.780on you at all times how do you meet women i don't know yeah it used to be you could just steal a
00:31:38.940girl's purse and run around the corner and when she chases you into the alleyway you can ask her
00:31:42.400for her number or you could just take her purse i don't know now that we're when we're alone yeah
00:31:48.620i guess i don't need the number anymore take her purse run down the alleyway act like you just
00:31:54.320beat yourself up and you rescue your purse and then call the police have her arrested for abuse0.80
00:32:01.280and say now we're practically married and then when you call the police you say what do we say
00:32:07.160everyone looks like the spider caught himself another fly winks at camera and scene and rape
00:32:18.500i've uh i was seeing i don't know why i don't want this to be like a whole0.63
00:32:26.260lady and sex episode but i think we're due for one because i was people kept feeding me these0.94
00:32:31.780tiktok videos of the women in their mid-30s they're making these tiktok videos themselves
00:32:37.440women in their mid-30s saying you know looking forlorn looking off in the distance or crying
00:32:44.860as they often are saying like i just had a dream where i um i had a baby and i was raising the baby
00:32:51.640and i was looking it was so real and so vivid and he looked at me and i felt so my heart was so full0.81
00:32:58.060and then i woke up to my life and now i'm crying and i've seen a few of these yeah of women you
00:33:06.100know the empty egg cart meme whatever you want and i'm like well this this is well this is it
00:33:12.140You know, we were talking about this in the chat where, like, a lot of the guys who are anti-feminist, anti-MeToo, anti-all that, they're like, good.
00:33:28.700But then there's also a report that I read just recently that said it was something like 60% of men in Gen Z, I believe, 60% of them don't have a girlfriend.
00:33:44.940This article reads, more than 60% of young men are single at nearly twice the rate of unattached young women.
00:33:50.980I don't know what unattached in this context means.
00:33:53.420Signaling a larger breakdown in the social, romantic, and sexual life of the American male.0.99
00:33:58.700And that's double the case for women.0.58
00:34:01.700So 30% of women don't have a boyfriend.
00:34:05.380And then we read that and the headline is almost like, well, what could be the cause?
00:34:23.980If you're new here, I'm Courtney Ryan.
00:34:25.340And today we're going to be talking about the rise of lonely single men and the rise of sexless men.
00:34:31.620But instead of just me talking about it, since I've already covered this pretty in-depth on my channel,
00:34:35.920I wanted to bring other girls on and get their opinion, what they think is going on, if they think women play any type of role in this.0.89
00:34:42.460I really think it's because women stopped caring about douchebags.
00:34:48.360I know that's not the best word to use, but guys that don't put in effort and don't care and don't want to actually value women for who they are, are going to be lonely because women are becoming a lot more independent and they're becoming a lot more confident in being themselves, that they don't need no man.
00:35:04.280So I find that that rise probably comes from those guys that don't want to put in that extra effort and actually put their pride aside and make a woman feel loved.
00:40:12.160this is this is a classic grandparent cry right here oh no first of all second of all let me just
00:40:20.360say a couple things here that just occurred to me i think we're done learning about weed right
00:40:27.040this isn't an anti-weed stance but i think we've said everything that needs to be said about weed
00:40:32.180anybody who's had like autistic stoner friend has probably already got the same earful nine times1.00
00:40:38.140over yeah i think we're done having the the conversation i'm on this fucking bitch's uh1.00
00:40:43.700twitter right now she looks asian i'm calling this asian so we got an asian girl what's her1.00
00:40:52.600bio here drugs plus nightlife journalist author weed now i don't know anything about her but i0.99
00:41:02.780know one thing for sure she's got a white boyfriend this this screams white boyfriend0.97
00:41:11.120athletic pro likes to surf i bet this guy rules let's look at the article from this woman when
00:41:19.480people gather anonymously to talk about dancing in the shadow of drugs and sex the energy in the
00:41:25.940room glows with a warm ball of white light this feeling i think must be the imminence of
00:41:32.540healing so much shame and secrecy is still attached to chem sex a term that refer that
00:41:39.440refers to using substances using substances such as methamphetamine ghb and newer synthetic drugs
00:41:48.240while engaging in casual and often group sex this is what we need to talk about by the way0.92
00:41:53.660what the fuck to evade public scrutiny the act is often facilitated online using coded language0.89
00:42:01.020such as party and play pmp or tina by the way this isn't code anytime i hear a weird word like0.99
00:42:09.360this i assume it's sex plus drugs like if someone says to you i'm up for party and play what do you0.98
00:42:16.160i assume it's gay sex and huffing something and i say no thank you you could this guy could be0.99
00:42:23.700trying to take me up to chuck e cheese i'd never know well you would because he'd just say hey you0.99
00:42:28.380want to go to chucky cheese and you'd be like thursday it'd be easy but that not when there's
00:42:32.980a code word a code look the shame of a grown man just wanted to go with the fellas to chucky cheese
00:42:38.160is way higher than someone engaging in okay no you're right drug drug substance abuse casual0.99
00:42:44.540sex in the dark yeah you need to you need a fucking decoder ring for that one rarely is1.00
00:42:50.980this subject discussed beyond hookup apps and even less so outside the gay even less so inside1.00
00:42:59.220the gay male scenes where the term originates from so again there's an angle to this where1.00
00:43:06.000this is just like a pick me type of bitch who's blowing the lid off of some weird gay thing that1.00
00:43:11.840gays probably didn't want us to know about that's a dynamic that i love i love the the straight woman1.00
00:43:17.320who gets involved with gays because they lead a boring urban life yeah it's like i'm gonna write0.99
00:43:22.640an article about this and they're mortified did you did you guys know that most gay men just do1.00
00:43:28.380a lot of meth and fuck strangers every saturday isn't it wild and they're like shut up shut up1.00
00:43:34.520you stupid bitch there is this classic post it might have been even thomas 777 but it was on the1.00
00:43:41.980old salo forums um this is kind of a famous uh series of posts but it was a uh old because i love1.00
00:43:50.120old stories of like what gay guys used to do in like the 70s and say it's so degenerate and this0.88
00:43:56.760is during the aids epidemic because they used to speak openly about how degenerate it was0.93
00:44:00.780but these are stories about like bath houses in new york and how like to hear them be described0.76
00:44:09.500it sounded nightmarish like you just you walk in you're walking naked in a dark place and you just
00:44:16.580hear like just slapping wet sounds and men and you just you just stay there for hours and then
00:44:24.240apparently there was so but the problem was there was so much aids transmission going on at the time0.52
00:44:30.300and then that the city was trying to like outlaw bath houses and the entire gay community like
00:44:36.600the harvey milks of the world i remember you're saying it's like can you guys at least turn the0.94
00:44:40.600lights on so that it's obvious which of you is covered in sores and they're like no yeah yeah
00:44:45.320yeah they said they're like i'm begging you can you at least put a dim light in the room
00:44:50.780and they're like you nazi that never gets old so so so we got this woman you know um while the
00:45:02.320combination of drugs and sex is nothing new chemsex as an underground cultural phenomena0.65
00:45:08.300became popularized in con oh my god in conjunction with the mainstreaming of online dating apps and
00:45:15.240hiv anti-retroviral drugs in the late 80s and 90s um okay so she's quoting someone here quote
00:45:22.940stigma towards methamphetamine from those who did not use it kept us united as a group
00:45:29.260we called ourselves the chem sex club wrote david stewart an hiv activist who claims to be the first
00:45:36.820one to use the word quote we were united less by commonalities or friendship but more so by our0.96
00:45:44.080shared preference to chemt so it's just like yeah we're gay but we're mainly drug addicts and they
00:45:49.940all have aids as well and they all every everyone's got also all have aids yeah everyone is on meth0.65
00:45:56.900and aids we don't we weren't united because we have that much in common no you all are gay men0.99
00:46:03.740with meth and aids i mean that's that's a very very narrow group holy shit that's why they got1.00
00:46:08.720into gay sex because it was like mainlining an std it's shooting a needle of aids into you0.99
00:46:18.040jesus um most of the current i'm going to keep going by the way i'm going to keep reading this0.99
00:46:25.800I need people to hear this because I want people to know what's going on out there.
00:46:30.200And I think this is a good sort of hat to put on the head of the last thing we were talking about.
00:46:35.440Because this is what this is what you see when you go on Tinder party and play people.
00:46:40.520Most of the current discourse about chem sex comes from the public health sector, which tends to frame it in a paradigm of risk and harm reduction.
00:46:49.260but a field of academic study sometimes called critical chem sex studies oh my god has recently
00:46:59.180emerged this is like she's probably pitching a course right now yeah has recently emerged that
00:47:03.880aims to center the practice instead within the realms of pleasure intimacy and identity
00:47:10.220jay jackson has written extensively about the intersection of queer life and drug use
00:47:15.600and is currently Head of Public Affairs at the drug policy think tank, VoltFast.
02:12:09.380anyway that's all that and and this is i know i gotta let you go now any any closing thoughts
02:12:17.100uh have a good weekend everybody all right have a good weekend i'll talk to you soon
02:12:22.060I am here with a very very interesting individual he just came across my desk the other day and I'm
02:12:45.480so happy that he took the time to sit down speak with me today I'm speaking with John Carter
02:12:50.540and a lot of you may know him from his very very popular sub stack and that is barsoom.substack.com
02:12:58.920that's b-a-r-s-o-o-m.substack.com now john that's the main link i have for you did i miss
02:13:07.600out on any twitters or anything else like that yeah i've got a uh i've got a twitter at martian
02:13:13.500word lord w y r d um and uh i'm on i'm on telegram as well you look for uh telegrams from barsoom
02:13:23.420you'll find me on there oh great perfect i was actually trying to find your telegram i couldn't
02:13:27.220find it uh but for people who want to know more about what the stuff we're going to talk about
02:13:31.640today check out that sub stack there's a lot of good stuff on there you publish pretty regularly
02:13:36.260which is rare and uh there seem to be quite a bit of comments that inspire discussion and one thing
02:13:41.540we were just talking about oh we were talking about um an interesting phenomena and if you'd
02:13:48.280like to delve into this again we could but it's about young men especially who are raised by
02:13:54.900usually single mothers and if those mothers tend to be political let's say they're leftist let's
02:14:00.280say they're feminist yet the sons will kind of rebel against them later in life um i always found
02:14:07.180that interesting phenomena and the thing i had heard recently and this is kind of what i wanted
02:14:11.240your opinion on was the name i keep hearing brought up and you're not going to like this
02:14:15.800but the name i keep hearing brought up is andrew tate now i'm not a fan of andrew i'm not a fan
02:14:21.460and we've reviewed him pretty poorly on the show before but i'm not plugged into the world of
02:14:27.180zoomers and gen alpha whatever they're called but i i was surprised at how much andrew tate was
02:14:34.120popular with young people and how you know they were just saying the base thing saying the anti
02:14:41.120feminist things now i was wondering what do you think about that and do you think there's a
02:14:45.660a better model that kids could look at now that he's in jail i guess no there's a setup if i ever0.88
02:14:51.860heard one um first just let me say like thanks for having me on the show this uh this is this
02:14:56.760is really cool and i'm very happy to be here um so yeah andrew taint uh i uh i won't pretend to
02:15:04.280know a whole lot about him like i think i first came across him maybe a couple years ago and i
02:15:09.580was like uh another like you know instagram influencer type right and so he says he says1.00
02:15:17.240good stuff uh and i think that explains part of the appeal that he has for the zoomers um
02:15:26.080and he projects a very good image right like you know he looks successful he looks kind of cool0.99
02:15:33.420he's got hot ladies on his arm and it's like okay what's not to like here uh my sort of problem
02:15:39.500with the guy is that his lifestyle his actions are not in alignment with you know what he says
02:15:48.680you know so he's he's you know he's pushing back against the feminists he's telling young men to
02:15:53.120um i guess the usual stuff right lift weights talk to girls uh get rich like all this okay
02:15:58.580this is all good stuff i don't i don't disagree you know uh become strong this is the way0.98
02:16:02.840but then he makes money being a fucking e-pimp uh you know like whoring out cam girls to coomers1.00
02:16:13.480which you know then you know traps them in like that porn cycle turns them into fucking simps1.00
02:16:19.140um and i don't know like maybe he'd like rationalize that by saying well these people0.99
02:16:23.880are going to be there anyways and you know might as well make my buck off of them they aren't my
02:16:28.120audience i i don't know i don't know enough about the guy but it it's like a heroin dealer
02:16:34.520kind of saying oh i'm a pillar of the community and he says a lot of like you know great stuff
02:16:41.340pushing back against the man or whatever but at the end of the day it's like you're you're0.96
02:16:46.320dealing heroin there man like that's this is some toxic shit yeah you know what's interesting um a0.82
02:16:52.520couple points that i had thought of when i looked at andrew tate because the first thing i saw when0.89
02:16:56.000i looked at andrew tate well i thought a couple things one was that he doesn't look like a tough
02:17:00.800guy and i know he can kickbox right i know but i think i saw this great great meme that someone
02:17:06.120was circulating like with it just like kind of like had a picture of andrew tate and then like
02:17:10.900kind of like the computer mapping of his head like he's just yeah did you see this he's so good
02:17:17.860he's a weird looking guy like he's got goofy looking head and the best comment i'd heard
02:17:23.860and i always try and bring this up uh to give credit was by a guy i like named mike redbar
02:17:28.400and he was like one of the first guys to troll andrew tay back when he was just the guy who was
02:17:33.800sleeping with jordan peterson's daughter um and then he had said this guy he's got kind eyes
02:17:41.020and i'm like he does have kind eyes that's why he wears shades all the time because he actually
02:17:46.080doesn't have that look in his eyes that like a tough guy gets you know and i'm like he actually
02:17:51.120looks like kind of a dork guy and then i saw him i'm like wow this guy reminds this is just0.54
02:17:56.280dick masterson's bit because if anyone remembers dick masterson he's still around he's still got0.96
02:18:00.740a show but almost line for line almost like i when dick masterson was on uh dr phil doing the0.90
02:18:08.220exact same bit but better and smarter and funnier and he looked cooler um he's a bit older now but0.98
02:18:15.140i'm like oh this is it made me think like it seems like every decade or i don't know how long dick
02:18:21.020master was around for but we seem to get one of these guys always in circulation because it made
02:18:24.620me think of like andrew dice clay and it made me think of like we always have these guys who
02:18:29.700they're a very strange version almost a parody of masculinity but they're always kicking around
02:18:37.000and they i don't know what to make of the best i guess like you know the the best thing you could
02:18:42.700take away from that if you want to take away something positive is that uh you know uh dressing
02:18:47.760well kids and keeping yourself in reasonably good physical condition uh having a basic sense0.99
02:18:53.200of style will go a long way even if you're a weird looking fucker like andrew tate um you know0.98
02:18:59.300look just wear that the bomber jacket a bomber jacket will take you miles exactly but it's i0.98
02:19:08.800think it's very similar to the jordan peterson phenomenon right so you know you have this guy
02:19:13.660who is going out there and he's saying he's pushing back against the pronoun people and you
02:19:18.580know he's he's saying all the right things about the woke left and and all of this and if you're
02:19:25.300like a 17 year old and you're trapped in the government indoctrination factories and you know
02:19:33.140being emotionally tortured day in and day out by these uh deranged functionaries called teachers
02:19:41.680yeah i mean okay you're in the digital longhouse right and like you know all you're ever
02:19:47.540encountering are like vicious women and gamma male men so anything that looks kind of like
02:19:54.280something that's not that and says that stuff is bad you're gonna be like oh this is my hero
02:19:59.800you know but then okay but you know what's actually behind it you know um so yeah i mean
02:20:08.940that would that was you know kind of one of the things that uh got me to write that uh that piece
02:20:14.100on tonic masculinity um i wanted to get to that too because it's a very very good post so we can
02:20:19.840get into that right now if you'd like too because i had some stuff to say um i mean there's a lot
02:20:24.420it's a that was a long article there's a lot in there and i didn't even say everything that i
02:20:27.820really wanted to say but um i mean it's kind of a it is kind of a cheesy name like um but you know
02:20:35.820obviously it's a play off of toxic masculinity this term which has uh just been kind of like
02:20:41.500force memed into the culture over the last decade or so like everyone hears it all the time and
02:20:46.420like there's never any sort of like counterpoint to toxic masculinity it's just like there's toxic
02:20:52.020masculinity which is all the bad things which is and then there's masculinity okay well what's
02:20:56.540toxic masculinity then well usually it's sort of you know i don't know like being assertive
02:21:03.080being being being a man essentially um and of course there are all sorts of ways that you can
02:21:12.560express any trait that you have in a negative or a positive fashion but the problem is that when
02:21:18.340you only have a word or a term like a conceptual hook for the negative stuff and then you have a
02:21:24.820term for something which is neutral like masculinity on its own it's just neutral um it's difficult to
02:21:31.440separate the positive and the negative you can't disaggregate them and that means i agree
02:21:37.720somewhat inevitably all of the all of the negative traits and get sort of mixed in with the positive
02:21:45.420traits and vice versa so on the left like they'll basically say anything masculine is toxic it's all0.99
02:21:53.860bad right and you know the results of that are all of these gamma males that you see running around0.99
02:21:59.700guys cutting their dicks off I mean you know the bit we all know the bit right but then something1.00
02:22:05.000that we don't think about maybe as much as we should on the right is the flip side of that0.98
02:22:09.460where there's a tendency to sort of say okay anything that's not that is good right and it's
02:22:14.560like okay so in a pure vitalist sense like it's it's probably better to be strong than weak like
02:22:22.280I'm totally there with that um but that lack of discernment separating out like the good and the
02:22:31.600bad uh leaves the door open for people like Andrew Tate as kind of the the canonical example here0.99
02:22:40.260where like this guy like I said before he's just a fucking pimp uh and not even a cool pimp with0.99
02:22:45.840actual prostitutes it's a fucking e-pimp it's like the lowest of the low right um and then he1.00
02:22:51.340suddenly becomes this voice of uh this guru of masculinity to young men who then get sucked into1.00
02:23:00.820this weird world of of going out like you know signing up for his hustler you and learning how0.89
02:23:07.060to be e-pimps themselves or whatever the fuck it is and it's like anyone who runs an online course
02:23:13.020is suspect in my opinion it i it depends you know like if i see like a guy like ed gutton0.93
02:23:20.500If I see a guy like Ed Dutton, for instance, who's like legit, like actual academic, and he's like, I will teach you about evolutionary biology. It's like, I, this is probably fine. Right. But the life coach types who are like, I will teach you how to be a man. It's like, you know, like, look carefully.
02:23:40.660you know yeah yeah is not is not the only one but of course you know on the other hand on the other
02:23:47.340side of that i mean there is this gaping need in our culture because like every single institution
02:23:54.240that we had and we used to have quite a few of them for turning boys into men uh you know the0.94
02:24:01.900boy scouts is now just the scouts right because girls had to be let in and gays so you know put1.00
02:24:08.400your put your son in boy scouts that caused a lot of problems oh you mean they're bankrupt now0.98
02:24:16.540because of all the lawsuits over uh totally not pedophile homosexuals uh you know getting access0.84
02:24:22.560to 14 year old boys because years ago someone said hey uh if you let those guys in they're0.94
02:24:27.980gonna molest your kids and they said shut up and now the most obvious things in the world keep
02:24:33.240happening and then but there's no i told you so moment it just sucks now forever oh the boy0.97
02:24:39.260scared what happened to them is just tragic man i mean like i'm i think they tried to push back on
02:24:43.900the letting gays be scout leaders thing and were told like that's a civil rights violation so like
02:24:49.660you know like you know you'll get sued into the dirt if you don't let them in so they were kind
02:24:53.380of like they had their arm twisted they had to let them in next thing you know little boys getting
02:24:57.560molested and now they got a class action loss i mean it was like it was a catch-22 right um yeah
02:25:02.180And this kind of thing has happened just to every institution, the military, right? Like, you know, you join, you join like the infantry and you've got women all over the place. I've got nothing against women, but you cannot have a male bonding system. You can't, you cannot turn boys into men when you have a bunch of females running around. It just doesn't work because it changes the social dynamics entirely.
02:25:29.240And just, you know, the examples go on and on and on. There are basically no formal institutions left to do that. And then making it even worse is that a huge number of the, I almost use the word men, adult human males in our society don't even recognize that this is a problem.
02:25:53.000now i wanted to say one thing uh but at the start of this you had said that the phrase tonic
02:25:59.620masculinity you thought was a bit uh cheesy i disagree i think it's actually a very good term
02:26:04.320and i'll tell you why it's a good term um in my opinion at least uh because um i was just uh just
02:26:10.700this evening there's a big conflagration going on right now about the term cultural marxism and
02:26:17.760oh yeah yeah yeah yeah that's that's been going for a that's that's a that's a perennial thing
02:26:24.080yeah yeah but the reason my thing is that if we try to make uh words popular and kind of go into
02:26:32.580the zeitgeist i don't like having to teach people a whole bunch of new terms and this is why you
02:26:37.580know one example would be uh this character named no white guilt who's a lovely guy but he came up
02:26:42.660you want he was pushing this term bio spirit and i'm like i i don't it it kind of instead of like
02:26:49.000oh instead a new way to look at race it's your biological spirit i'm like it's too complicated
02:26:53.160people we don't have the time to teach people basically yeah yeah so it's like you can't keep
02:26:59.480teaching the public new words and then reteaching them every once in a while so tonic masculinity
02:27:05.180kind of worked for me because okay they've been taught toxic masculinity so this is just a little
02:27:10.980bit of an inversion like that right and and this is and this is kind of the idea right it's like
02:27:15.620they see when they when they see the first time like their brains will kind of go oh it talks
02:27:18.960about something and then they'll look a little more closely oh wait tonic oh and then because
02:27:22.580you know what does tonic mean well you know your gin and tonic a tonic is something that
02:27:26.840helps you take your medicine you know protects against malaria quinine it uh kind of wakes you
02:27:32.540up or vivifies you brings life into your body um actually uh harrison coley um who's one of the
02:27:40.280other kind of like neo gonzo sub stackers that i hang around with he has uh a really really
02:27:45.820fascinating um sub stack called uh ponderology so p-o-n oh yeah no we we covered that on the show
02:27:53.760there's a book political ponderology yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's okay good for you that's
02:27:59.100i've i've been i i read about that the first time i read lobo chiuski's book oh man like like over
02:28:04.560a decade ago and uh i've been telling people about that for years now i think that's one of
02:28:11.780the most important ideas to get out there is the role played by psychopathy in society i'm really
02:28:16.220glad i've noticed it started like catch on more the last like year or so and i'm really happy about
02:28:20.200that yeah yeah so yeah we read that book and we i was gonna say we read that book and we paired it
02:28:25.380with uh spiteful mutants by edward dunn because those go right yes i think yeah yeah no that's
02:28:30.460exactly yes that's it's it they go together very very well um so yeah harrison had a good piece
02:28:40.720riffing on the tonic masculinity idea uh sort of going into the etymology of tonic and uncovering
02:28:47.860some things i didn't know actually like for instance it actually is related to tension
02:28:51.360as well um which is kind of cool uh so the cult cultural marxism um just one thing that i would
02:29:02.240say on that is probably the one of the most common objections that i hear raised to the use of that
02:29:12.200term by guys in our sphere is this kind of autistic complaint that these people aren't
02:29:19.760really marxists and that's true they're not i mean there's an intellectual heritage that goes
02:29:27.220back to marxism um and you know and that could lead to like the james lindsey mistake of like
02:29:35.020if i just explain it well enough it will go away no well it doesn't work like that uh but on the
02:29:39.960other hand like the sort of that's you know one kind of autism and then the other kind of autism
02:29:44.440is they're not really marxist and it's like okay they're not but uh that doesn't matter we're
02:29:48.040talking rhetoric here and at a rhetorical level uh north americans particularly conservative
02:29:54.380minded north americans meaning the vast majority of white people especially uh they hear they don't
02:30:01.300have any deep thoughts about what marxism is they haven't read das kapital or communist manifesto or
02:30:06.760you know any of this right they just know marxist equals commie equals bad right like it's just
02:30:13.520that's it's it's it serves the same function on the right that the word fascist serves on the left
02:30:20.120right like when they call us fascists they're not saying that we are uh you know believers in the
02:30:26.860unity of state and corporation uh according to a certain italian strongman in the 1920s uh and 30s
02:30:36.600like they don't even probably know that history themselves right it just means bad person right
02:30:41.800you were the historical bad guys yeah it's historical bad guy right so like you know an
02:30:47.180american here is marxist or canadian for that matter and they think cold war they think commie
02:30:51.660they think like subversive kgb agent right and uh well frankly the subversive agent part does
02:30:58.680describe what these people do pretty well frankly um and you know they also might have like images
02:31:08.320in their heads of uh sort of you know like hideous uh historical catastrophes like
02:31:14.860what happened in cambodia under pol pot um and again like you know if this current version of
02:31:25.520the globalist corporate is left really gets their way i think we all kind of see the gulags coming
02:31:33.160down the pike in the future right like so like not not not that they not that they want to
02:31:40.300exterminate us i don't because i don't think i think like that's that's one thing that0.93
02:31:44.040you don't try to exterminate like 60 70 of the population or whatever i mean maybe breed us out
02:31:49.580very slowly over a period of like a century but like uh more like they want to turn us into0.51
02:31:55.340helots and they were kind of already there to be honest yeah i'm just i know we're jumping around
02:32:02.340a bit because this is something i wanted to get to later but uh we're on the topic now and we'll
02:32:06.380get back to tonic masculine in a second but you had published a piece i think just a few days ago
02:32:11.960on this topic of the words and what i liked was um you started off by saying i want to find my
02:32:18.280new nuclear word i think you were talking about uh cultural marxism it's like ah it's kind of
02:32:23.760works kind of doesn't but i want a word that makes the up the person i'm using it against
02:32:28.760really feel humiliated and bad and i have one but i'm going to talk about yours because you
02:32:35.200settled on marxists did you want to speak on that for a second yes so yeah i went through like all
02:32:42.300all the slurs that have been come up with over the last several years you know you know social
02:32:47.180justice warrior which i don't really like because calling someone a warrior i mean look at these0.96
02:32:53.140fucking people um it's the category or uh like even if you're using it ironically it's sort of0.97
02:32:58.120like you know um uh snowflake i mean that was always a bit lame but you know george takei kind0.99
02:33:06.220of ruined that now they just use it on us wrongly it's just it's cringe when they use it but like
02:33:13.280you can't be used anymore that's the problem yeah um and it doesn't really it's just this whole
02:33:18.680idea like oh they want to be special unique it's like no they actually don't they're highly
02:33:21.860conformist like for all the all the neo pronouns and xeno pronouns and and shit like they're very
02:33:27.260conformist people um and you know there's a bunch of others like and the problem with a lot of them
02:33:34.080like cry bully for instance which okay like that describes very effectively a tactic that they use
02:33:39.060but there's it's it's it doesn't say anything about their inner nature really um so the one
02:33:45.560that came to me just when i was in the comments threads of uh chris bray's substack who's he's a
02:33:51.100he's a pretty funny guy he's not like a hundred percent like um you know uh sort of he's older
02:33:57.820right so he's kind of a boomer but uh but he's he's pretty funny his heart's in the right place
02:34:02.680i love this blog anyhow um it just kind of like what's his blog's name again just so people can
02:34:09.440uh tell me how this ends he gets he gets boosted on revolver now and then i i owe the guy a debt
02:34:20.600of honor because he recommended my blog in the early days. I picked up like 400 subscribers from
02:34:26.180that. So yeah, it really gave me a nice boost at the beginning for emotion. But yeah, so the word
02:34:37.440that I came up with is Marxist, a poor manteau of Marxist and narcissist. The Marxist part is,
02:34:43.540well, I mean, partly it's taken a shot at their own sort of self-image as being these like
02:34:47.740revolutionaries for social justice or whatever, which is, you know, forgetting for a second what
02:34:54.700I just said, but they're not really being Marxists. It's kind of got, they do kind of
02:34:58.840see themselves as revolutionaries. And then the narcissist part is it's obvious. These people are
02:35:04.880all mentally fucking ill. They brag about being mentally ill. They're proud of me, but they put1.00
02:35:08.160it in their bios. Like I'm bipolar and, you know, like borderline or, you know, depressed or, you
02:35:15.260know neurodivergent you know um but they're also very fucking sensitive about that it's like they
02:35:23.700are it's it's funny i always want to say um i also have my own a nuclear term which some people may0.96
02:35:31.240think sounds very reductive but it it feels good and i just like saying it i say gay communist
02:35:38.420um and and for a couple of reasons and people say oh well they're not really communist but that0.61
02:35:44.380that's the point it doesn't really fucking matter we already kind of established that the people
02:35:48.420you're trying to craft these words for they already kind of know what communists is and that already
02:35:54.080has the negative social capital attached to it because even marxists are scared of being called
02:35:58.740communists and then here's the other great thing you notice with people i don't care what you are0.90
02:36:04.200politically if you're a straight man you don't want to be called gay call someone a gay communist0.98
02:36:10.180they will immediately get upset i promise you it's the damnedest thing oh yeah oh yeah that'll1.00
02:36:16.820get under her skin very quickly yeah yeah not that there's anything wrong with that i mean shit like0.98
02:36:22.440seinfeld was making fun of that back in like the 90s you know um it's it's like no girl actually0.98
02:36:26.720wants to be called fat i remember when amy schumer she's like she's like the fat activist and she was
02:36:31.240like oh so the press is like oh and she here she is in a size a it's like oh i i love fat people1.00
02:36:36.360but um i'm a size one actually like queen of fat bitches the big bitch queen doesn't actually want1.00
02:36:44.120to be seen as fat deep down i'm like we can play around with that that's a big sandbox to invite0.99
02:36:49.180everyone into it's like you were talking the other day about uh on on your podcast about you know
02:36:56.020what would piss them off more using ai to make the ugly girl pretty by making her not fat or making0.91
02:37:03.280the the pretty girl ugly by making her fat and like i'm pretty sure it's a good troll i think0.92
02:37:11.180i'm pretty sure it's the former like if you if you make the ugly like pretty girls i mean they're0.71
02:37:15.180a little self-conscious but if you kind of you know especially but if if you sort of like show
02:37:19.040like use the filter to add 300 pounds it's like a troll like a lot of them will probably just roll0.81
02:37:24.860their eyes right uh they probably get more butthurt of it like you know uh deep fake porn or0.99
02:37:29.840something but like the fat girl being made pretty like i think that would be like a just a kick in0.98
02:37:35.160the box you know like just it would just it's it's so effective it feels evil but there's this guy
02:37:43.060um there's this online character a lol cow by the name of patrick s tomlinson i'm not going to go
02:37:50.060into the whole lore on him but some people might know who i'm talking about but there is this great0.99
02:37:53.840troll he's this um kind of a shitty sci-fi writer and he's he's fat and he's mean and he's a shit0.97
02:37:59.420lib but people started doing this thing and it was it was so good to seem cruel where they started0.99
02:38:05.080photoshopping him to be handsome and taking his angry tweets and making them seem like chill cool
02:38:11.440tweets i'm like damn that must be to see yourself in your idealized form is really and knowing that
02:38:19.320you're you'll probably never get there i'm like that's maddening almost right you know if it if0.73
02:38:24.820it could give someone a prod by like seeing like oh wait i could be that and i think it would have
02:38:30.920that effect on some you guys were talking about as well i think that would have that effect on
02:38:34.180some people um on others i think it might just destroy them you know if they realize like you
02:38:40.880know like oh i could be that but i don't have the willpower to do it uh yeah yeah it's interesting
02:38:49.320because like it is an ideal that you instinctually want but your ideology demands that you not admit0.96
02:38:56.520internally that that's an ideal so you're always short-circuiting that's what the shit lib goes0.98
02:39:02.080through it's like i i nothing's being nothing's wrong with being fat but that's like that they0.97
02:39:06.880need to keep convincing themselves that that idealized version isn't better and that drives0.62
02:39:12.980crazy it's the tranny thing right this is why they're so insistent that everyone reinforce0.98
02:39:18.320their delusions that they're really a pretty girl and not a dude in a wig who hasn't shaved0.54
02:39:22.980in three days like it's it's this very fragile like they need to maintain this illusion that
02:39:35.340there's something they're not they know it's fake their entire worldview would come crushing
02:39:41.080come crashing down around them if it was pointed out to them that like no actually you are living
02:39:45.600in a delusion. None of this is real. Big is not beautiful. You are not healthy. You should
02:39:51.320probably lose weight. This would be emotionally crushing to them. However, sometimes you need to
02:39:59.820be mean because they might need that. It's like tough love, essentially. It's not actually evil
02:40:05.800to bully someone a little bit into getting their shit together. People look at Asian girls.0.99
02:40:14.380look at look at asian girls right like the ones from asia like like you know east asia i mean not0.64
02:40:19.340like india uh and you know they're predominantly quite skinny why is this i mean partly it's diet
02:40:27.300you know they don't uh they're not guzzling hfcs like you know uh north american girls are0.95
02:40:33.840but partly it's cultural they're ruthless with each other one of them puts on like one pound1.00
02:40:40.660all of her girlfriends are like you know when they go out for like lunch or something they're0.99
02:40:44.060like, oh, you're looking a little, have you thought about salad? You know, like they keep
02:40:50.340each other in line. And the result is that like, they all look pretty. And the result of that is
02:40:55.160they're generally happier. And you know, what's interesting is I think you just touched on
02:41:01.060something very good there with discussing the whole trans issue because, and this is a great
02:41:07.100example of tonic masculinity or tonic masculinity versus toxic masculinity, because on the trans
02:41:13.600issue you just said like bullying and being a little bit mean is actually better you do it
02:41:19.960because you care despite what they may think you do because you care and that would be a tonic
02:41:25.400masculine thing now a toxic masculinity a masculine man would uh just laugh as these0.98
02:41:32.340women are raped and molested by trannies yeah that's to this day like we actually that's not0.99
02:41:37.620a level of cruelty i think i say this about people on the right broadly it's like if you just knew0.97
02:41:43.780how many sweethearts are over here how many just like nice cool guys like they're not people who
02:41:49.940are celebrating torture and the example i would give it like you know take the most extreme
02:41:56.620white supremacist and and i know a few big fans of the show but you know a few of them like i0.85
02:42:03.820generally i've never seen them laugh at a black baby suffering if they see a black person abusing0.96
02:42:09.820a black child they they're upset they're they're viscerally pissed off that's gross that's0.99
02:42:15.020disgusting how dare they whereas you see some people laugh at a white baby being abused and0.98
02:42:20.700that's a level of cruelty i don't think any of us really approach and i think that's that's good0.96
02:42:26.460and good enough to point out but that's the difference between a toxic masculinity of yeah0.98
02:42:32.420you get what you fucking deserve and you're laughing at a woman being raped which is i'm0.98
02:42:36.420like i don't think most people the masculine men over here really want to see that some people will0.99
02:42:42.080like say it ironically but you'll see yeah exactly like if people will like joke like you know when0.67
02:42:46.820like some some fucking outrage happens over in europe for instance with uh you know migrants0.90
02:42:52.720having their way with the swedish women who you know uh happily invited them in or something like0.99
02:42:58.560ah, well, you know, you get what you deserve, but that's on the internet, right? Like that's,0.99
02:43:02.080and that's, that's a way of coping, frankly. It's, it's gallows humor because it's, it's just so
02:43:06.640fucking grim. But if you were to like, be there in person, like, no, most people would, would try0.74
02:43:11.100and do something, you know? I, I, I had a piece shortly after I started the blog kind of touching
02:43:21.600on this stuff, like sort of how I think about, you know, these issues. And the title is something
02:43:27.500like just because you're smarter than dogs doesn't mean you can kick them and sort of my my sort of
02:43:35.400point there i think it's almost it's implicit in the title right it's like there's this idea
02:43:42.140that has a lot of currency on the left it's one of the reasons i think it's the reason that they're
02:43:48.540they're so allergic to any sort of like you know hbd frankness race realism call it what you will
02:43:56.120especially anything related to like iq or behavior um that you know if these things were real then
02:44:02.060we'd have to i don't know like exterminate them or something right like hitler was right so we0.91
02:44:07.280have to kill everyone and it's like no it doesn't doesn't work that way you know like0.99
02:44:11.100and the example is like okay are humans smarter than dogs like quite obviously you know um does0.98
02:44:21.060that mean you can walk around torturing dogs? Like, no, that doesn't follow. Like, you still
02:44:27.060should be nice to dogs. You should still treat them well, and help them be the best dogs they
02:44:31.800can be. Because that's just the humane fucking thing to do. So it's really the same when it0.98
02:44:38.720comes to like, you know, relations between human groups. It's like, are there going to be
02:44:42.940differentials and IQ or some groups going to be more, um, prone to, uh, violent outbursts or,
02:44:52.080uh, have, you know, uh, uh, higher time preference than others or, you know, whatever the usual
02:44:57.920things. And it's like, yeah, obviously that's going to be the case. You can see it. Um,
02:45:03.340does that mean you should treat them badly? No, it doesn't.
02:45:07.880Yeah. And a good point is like, I used to say this years ago when I try and explain this to women too, to try and help them out. And I was playing this to young, young men too, where I'm like, you know, what, what do women want? Well, you know, you get old enough, you know exactly what women want, but if I have to explain it, I'd be like, you know what, women, women like confidence.
02:45:27.420now there's a couple ways to do confidence you can be a dick being a dick and an asshole0.99
02:45:32.960is kind of low resolution confidence a lot of young guys default to that because they don't0.99
02:45:37.380know how to do the higher resolution version of confidence which is kind of what we're talking0.98
02:45:42.360about tonic masculinity so now women will say like i don't like dealing with assholes but1.00
02:45:48.780they will choose that asshole over a weak man 10 times out of 10 you see it every single day1.00
02:45:54.840every time every time but they would like they would prefer no matter what yeah no strength is1.00
02:46:01.000always better than weakness right like you know being a gamma male is not is not the way to win
02:46:06.640win over women being a sociopath is actually better than being a gamma male for romantic0.99
02:46:13.020success quite frankly um but it's hardly ideal either like most women if they're not fucking0.98
02:46:18.300broken themselves given the choice between like the sociopath who's going to cheat on her and
02:46:23.600like beat her or whatever and the sort of um like a strong guy who asserts himself but also
02:46:32.620treats her like a human being is probably going to prefer this the latter option but you know that's
02:46:40.160that's i think especially when you're young and you haven't been given those examples
02:46:45.740you just sort of all you can do is veer between these extremes and finding that sort of happy
02:46:52.040median uh it's tricky you know this is why of the classical virtues there's a good argument to be
02:46:59.160made that temperance is actually the most important one right like you know people often they hear
02:47:03.680temperance and they just think oh don't drink too much right that's what that means uh it's like no
02:47:07.740it just means it means moderation as in finding that sort of perfect path between the two extremes
02:47:19.720both of which have the danger like their own dangers right like and this applies to like
02:47:26.860the other virtues so like uh prudence for example so if you are too prudent this can turn into
02:47:34.240cowardice you're paralyzed with indecision all the time and of course if you're not prudent at1.00
02:47:39.920all then you're just going to be a fucking retard and do stupid shit all the time uh hurt yourself1.00
02:47:44.040and others. Both of these are bad. You know, having that kind of middle ground of prudence1.00
02:47:50.780where, you know, you're being just careful enough, but also just reckless enough, right?
02:47:57.440This is the way to go. Similarly with relations with women, like you have to be0.99
02:48:05.280you have to be a man about it. You have to be assertive. You have to be confident.0.52
02:48:10.920but you also don't want to be a dick yeah and not be so ridiculous and this comes with age as well1.00
02:48:18.380because you know being a dick that's okay if you're like 16 to your maybe maybe mid-20s is1.00
02:48:25.880even pushing it there was this fucking joke i saw by one of my favorite comedians shane gillis1.00
02:48:31.300and he was at a roast of uh one of the hosts of legion of skanks lewis j gomez he's talking about0.97
02:48:37.180another comedian named um ari shafir jew but um he's he's like this kind of like edgy comic and
02:48:45.000then he's up there and he's just just the way he says it's great i'm gonna butcher it but he's like
02:48:49.280ari shafir is a really dangerous and edgy guy which is really cool for a 50 year old guy to be0.95
02:48:58.060and i heard that i'm like that's fucking true like if you're just being like a0.97
02:49:02.860edgy 22 year old when you're 50 that's a weird fucking look right you're just i'm the guy who1.00
02:49:09.560says fucked up shit when you're you could be like a grandfather i'm like that's all you are1.00
02:49:15.120again low resolution sort of guy to be it's uh yeah that's definitely something that comes with1.00
02:49:21.660age right like um i i sort of feel like you don't want to ever totally lose that edge
02:49:29.900it's a matter of knowing when to use it right like I think this is like really key actually
02:49:38.600to the whole tonic notion it's like you have your tools right and you want to have as many tools as
02:49:46.720you can but you also want to know want to know like how to use the tools and when to use the0.96
02:49:52.820right tool for the right job so you know there are times when you want to use the word fuck1.00
02:49:58.740and you will get like maximum effect from the use of that word if you're just saying fuck fuck fuck1.00
02:50:04.240fuck fuck fuck all the time kind of loses its meaning right um i think there's there is a1.00
02:50:12.740tendency sometimes as guys get older they like rather than keeping that knife in their back1.00
02:50:19.860pocket so to speak and knowing when to pull it out they just let it get dull and then they forget
02:50:24.260they leave it at home you know and then they don't have it at all which is very sad in its own way
02:50:28.840you know it's funny it this brings us back to i guess where we started by talking about
02:50:34.700andrew tate and pimps specifically i wanted to mention this that i think pimps as a social
02:50:40.720phenomena they're a perfect example we're talking about because even growing up you know i guess
02:50:45.920snoop dogg was big about this but like popularizing the pimp as like a cool character but pimps always0.83
02:50:52.340seemed really stupid and lame to me and i see guys now guys now are like oh i'm a former pimp0.97
02:50:59.300you know but i'm on a pod there's a guy on fucking uh no jumper named sharp or something he's like a0.98
02:51:05.280former pimp but they all look like and talk like and act like cartoon characters i'm like you guys0.98
02:51:10.860are so fucking gay when i was a teenager like the the whole the whole gangster rap hip-hop thing0.99
02:51:18.440kind of kind of baffled me because like I looked at someone like Snoop Dogg and I was like this1.00
02:51:23.600guy's a fucking clown frankly like you know and like meanwhile okay you know okay who were my0.97
02:51:30.460heroes right right John Carter who are you looking to and I'm like well you know like Captain Picard0.99
02:51:36.100Conan the Barbarian like you know these were the kinds of like you know like fictional characters
02:51:42.320I mean frankly Snoop Dogg is a fictional character too he just plays himself but it's all a lark1.00
02:51:47.060um these were the guys that i was looking at and like you know the you know picard he's like
02:51:54.200dignified and fatherly and wise but you know he's like you know he's also firm and decisive you know
02:52:00.740he takes everything into account all factors and then like takes exactly the right action
02:52:05.660in order to like you know achieve the objective with like you know generally like the minimum
02:52:12.320amount of like damage that he can get away with uh and then you have conan who's just like you
02:52:16.700know raw real basically um which has a lot to recommend it as well uh but like some drug0.97
02:52:26.780smoking pimp slapping hoes around i'm like okay yeah well because the pimp it's like okay you're0.99
02:52:34.180a grown man you're gonna dress like a spoiled boy prince and you only beat up women i'm like0.99
02:52:40.340this sounds like a gay thing to be yeah when did this ever become cool yeah exactly like this is0.91
02:52:46.620not terribly impressive you know like it's why you don't fight you don't fight girls because0.86
02:52:53.780there's no physically I mean because like there's no um there's no upside to it right like you know0.81
02:53:01.380if you lose the fight you got beaten by a girl and if you win the fight you know you beat it you0.53
02:53:07.320beat up a girl like I mean like either way you lose um which is you know this is part of the0.98
02:53:13.420problem with uh with the mass influx of of females into all of the male spaces which you0.99
02:53:22.120know male spaces rely to a huge degree on uh sort of friendly contention um in order to sort out the0.77
02:53:31.720hierarchy and uh and and well mainly that actually um but you know there's no glory in beating the
02:53:41.320woman so then it kind of like puts guys on their back feet all the time because they don't want to
02:53:45.660they don't want to push too hard right um and then you end up with all of these guys who are
02:53:51.020they're like their their bodies have been trained at this kind of like like neuro emotional level
02:53:57.100that uh as as my uh my friend jay rollins uh put it like um you know normal male aggression means
02:54:06.240bad doggy you know like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um i just want to say you mentioned picard there
02:54:15.120and i think picard is um not usually brought up enough as a very good i guess male role model
02:54:22.500to have especially if you pair him with conan because they're kind of opposites in that sense
02:54:25.900but i i don't think i'm out of turn when i say that picard would be a stoic and that was kind of
02:54:32.840what his character was about which is that he never gets emotional he's always just right down
02:54:39.400the line and there's never a big ending where he cries or confesses his secret which is what the
02:54:45.880new show it's not not totally true um there were some episodes like i think the the end of the
02:54:54.340the locutus uh two part i think there's a bit of a tear there um and it's it's very emotionally
02:55:01.300affecting and there's a couple others that come to mind in general you're right he is he's extremely0.98
02:55:06.560in control of his emotions um so when he does show emotion you're like you're like shit like0.97
02:55:13.340you know it really hits you in the gut um yeah but but he's like almost the the coolest version0.94
02:55:20.140of just a a steely rationalist but then you've also got going if you could be both those guys
02:55:24.980at the same time you're set knowing when to be one or the other that's i mean there are different
02:55:31.200paths right like there's no one way to be um a a fully realized man like you know who's like on the
02:55:40.920path but there are there are much worse paths than others you know um and i had something else to say
02:55:52.460there but go yeah it's okay but but there's a bunch of stuff i wanted to ask you about and
02:55:57.000this will be an interesting time to ask because, um, you'd mentioned something there about, you
02:56:02.260know, women in the workplace and men feeling that they need to kind of change how they behave and
02:56:07.020whatnot. Um, and I wanted to, if you're willing, perhaps get a bit into your past in academia at
02:56:15.620as was outlined on your blog. Um, and kind of what, what led to, you know, where you are now,
02:56:22.280uh, we don't need to go into too much detail if you don't want to, but it's an interesting story.
02:56:25.020And to lead into that, I was going to say that my experience in the professional world, for people who don't know, I used to work in kitchens and restaurants as like a sous chef and a line cook at various points.
02:56:38.000And then I've been in marketing for over around 10 years now, not over, but around 10 years, I think.
02:56:43.720And I find that working around women because marketing, the entire industry, especially in Canada, if I had to estimate, it would be over half women.0.59
02:56:53.380So I have a lot of experience working around women, having women in leadership, being in a company culture where women are in charge of things and the female norms run rampant.0.74
02:57:06.040And I find that over time, it has affected me.0.76
02:57:09.980I've had to consciously fight back while adapting the fake persona that I need to exist in that world while keeping the real me here.0.97
02:57:19.120But I do fear that on a long enough timeline, I am getting worn down more and more just by being by having to live in that fucking prison and saying, not to use this word too much, the gayest things imaginable.1.00
02:57:32.920You need to do that. You need to make small talk every day and say TGIF and make puns.1.00
02:57:39.180If you're in an office, you need to be punny.
02:57:42.520And that does horrible damage to the male psyche saying a pun anyway.
02:57:48.620But I think your experience in academia is the same.
02:57:52.660I will say that the much maligned dad joke is actually a flex because the only person laughing is you and you're laughing at everyone else's discomfort.
02:58:05.300So it's actually quite alpha to make the dad joke.
02:58:08.100uh but i know exactly what you mean so i mean my my my field uh is one of the few stem fields that0.96
02:58:15.780is um it's not majority majority uh female but like it's there's a lot of women um and
02:58:25.420you know for the most part uh they are actually quite pleasant to be around it's it's very much
02:58:32.140the head girl archetype as dutton would put it you know they're you know they're conscientious
02:58:37.420and they're um they're friendly and uh they work hard and and all of these things um but you find
02:58:46.140yourself walking on eggshells all the time because they have feelings and if you criticize them a
02:58:54.640little bit too hard uh you hurt their feelings and then they cry so you don't want to do that
02:59:02.320because it's annoying so then you're you don't do that and you know you start adopting this um
02:59:10.820this you know rather than trying to find what's wrong about what they did you try to find what's
02:59:18.720right about what they did uh as uh um there was a uh philosopher who just described it you know
02:59:26.380that wasn't the official policy that was adopted in his philosophy department which replaced the
02:59:31.180far more contentious uh atmosphere they would have in seminars before it became um you know0.99
02:59:36.960largely dominated by women uh and you know like then like they'll they'll do their little female1.00
02:59:43.980social aggressions on you like you know if you uh so a lot of the times for instance you know maybe0.99
02:59:48.620i'm excitable and you know if i'm talking about something or if a topic comes up that i'm like
02:59:55.360really interested in and like i know about it like i have a hard time stopping myself from just
03:00:00.520jumping in and like talking about it, right? I think a lot of sort of like somewhat autistic
03:00:06.940guys are like that on things they're interested in. So when you do that, and you're told every
03:00:13.480time stop mansplaining, you know, it's like, it starts getting to you because you start training
03:00:21.180yourself to not do this thing, which comes very naturally to you. And then you're biting your
03:00:25.400tongue all the time and then of course they have their opinions which are shitty because they're1.00
03:00:31.580always shitty and but they you know as shitlib girls especially like they they don't see why1.00
03:00:39.020they shouldn't uh throw their opinions out there on things like diversity inclusion and equity for0.99
03:00:45.140instance or why why trump is a bad orange man um and they expect you to clap uh when they say it
03:00:53.320And sort of the only way I was able to sort of deal with that, because, you know, in the academic environment, you couldn't be like, actually, Trump is, you know, he kept most of his promises or whatever.
03:01:01.820Right. Because like, you know, that's that's going to be the end for you if you do it.
03:01:04.860So I would just my only tactic was just not respond to just like, you know, deny them the the expected chuckle at the weak joke joke about the bad orange man, for example.0.99
03:01:17.880And then it would be awkward for a few seconds and we could get back to talking about fucking work.
03:01:22.480Uh, but I would even see this kind of thing happen, um, during like academic talks, like0.99
03:01:29.540at conferences, you would get like the shit libs who would, and the guys too, who are0.68
03:01:34.040spiritually women, uh, would like, they'd like open their talk with like some dig at0.98
03:01:39.220Republicans or, you know, whatever.1.00
03:01:42.200Um, and kind of expect everyone to laugh.0.99
03:01:45.620And of course all the shit libs in the audience, like, ah, that's so funny.0.97
03:01:47.920And then like, you know, the small number of conservatives, uh, would be kind of like,0.99
03:01:51.600you know just kind of like sitting there you know but it never occurs to these fucking people that0.96
03:01:56.420like first of all massively unprofessional like why are you doing this you know we're not here0.99
03:02:01.160to talk about politics we're here to talk about like a technical subject and and second like you
03:02:07.360know what about the people who don't agree with you right like you know that's why the conservatives0.80
03:02:12.980in the audience are that's one of the reasons we're not fucking doing that because like we're1.00
03:02:17.360there to be professional and they're not which is one of the issues with female psychology1.00
03:02:25.080especially is that they had an extremely difficult time separating the political and the personal0.99
03:02:31.100they don't do when it comes to people they don't do abstract reasoning really at all so like
03:02:40.980Dutton uh god that's the third time he's been mentioned in this in this interview
03:02:45.880um you think i listen to him a lot or something uh he had a recent piece talking about i end up
03:02:51.120doing the same thing because i actually i i he's one of the few guys i always keep listening to
03:02:55.140and he comes up because there's not a lot of people talking about this sort of thing from
03:03:00.520an evolutionary biological jf garepi would be another but it's kind of those two i can think
03:03:06.440of yeah yeah exactly and he's almost invariably got something interesting to say so either a
03:03:11.880recent one talking about um midwit arguments and one of them was that like is is the argument uh
03:03:18.340um that uh you'll say like i have noticed that many x are like y which makes me think that z
03:03:27.060may be true and then the midwit will come back and say well actually my friend a who is x is not like
03:03:34.520why so zed is certainly not true right like it's this inability to separate the particular from1.00
03:03:42.780the statistical um from the general and women do this all the time uh because everything because1.00
03:03:52.100if people are involved it becomes personal to them they're unable to abstract things1.00
03:03:56.280and that ties into like their their their um their way of interacting in the office where
03:04:05.280like you know they can't they have a really hard time like i said like separating out
03:04:09.060criticism of their professional work from criticism of them as a human being you know and
03:04:15.920like you know admittedly like i'm not saying that this is like a like you know men are totally one
03:04:20.760way and women are totally another way i mean there's there's huge amounts of overlap um you
03:04:25.040know that was a struggle for me as well when I was uh first um you know like you know learning
03:04:32.720how to do that stuff that you know like my supervisor would come back and like you know
03:04:36.700hand me like my a paper I've been working on and it's covered in red ink and they rephrase this and
03:04:41.180that's wrong and you know and you're like oh you know you kind of bridle like how dare you but then0.96
03:04:45.220like you know I'd have to like remind myself okay like he's not being a jerk like he's trying to0.67
03:04:48.860make sure that my work is as good as possible and you know then I'd kind of bite back that0.99
03:04:53.020that that uh that offense that i would take and uh just just fucking do it um whereas women you0.99
03:05:01.100have to be a lot more careful because they're much more likely to cry and then hold it against0.97
03:05:06.960you for the rest of your life that is my experience when i was at an agency and i was curious um was
03:05:15.140this i'm referring to um a article i'm looking at that you published called lay down and let it rot
03:05:22.020about your experiences in the academic world which you had just recently you had some problems in
03:05:29.580America and I was wondering was this phenomena one of the contributing reasons why you had such
03:05:35.080a contentious relationship with academia and if you wouldn't mind would you be willing to kind of
03:05:39.840explain a bit about your history going through the academic system being a post-grad and and all that
03:05:45.520stuff because I think it's very fascinating I think it's important to the story as well
03:05:50.120So, man, I wrote that I was in a mood.
03:05:53.320And so I don't actually specifically remember everything that I said in there.
03:05:57.060I sort of remember the general gist of it.
03:05:58.820So, you know, to be clear, it's not like I got cancelled or something like that.
03:06:03.100I sort of reached the end of a contract postdoctoral fellowship that, you know, when I started it, it was like for a defined term, right?
03:06:18.900so it's not like I got fired or something like that um it was really more just like
03:06:24.620you know trying to find a job uh as like move on to the next stage in my career which that that job
03:06:34.620had supposed to have been a uh like a stepping stone kind of thing and I did I think reasonably
03:06:41.440well at it um most of my peers when they would see my cv they'd be like oh wow uh the professors
03:06:51.200and the older professors i knew like oh yeah you're shooing you know you should be fine and
03:06:55.360then you know of course um in the post summer of love uh explosion of of uh of die uh bureaucracy
03:07:03.840and uh diversity hiring initiatives because let me just say for people who know die means diversity
03:07:10.240inclusion and equity it's a it's a very i like to use that that's a very good term
03:07:14.160yeah i i refuse to use the more uh the more commonly encountered dei because that is a
03:07:21.280little bit too close to uh you know the latin for god which i i do not think is accidental i think
03:07:28.240there's some mlp going on there for sure um then of course you know i've noticed that there's people
03:07:33.040who say edi which and and it's funny because this maps very well to like people's politics so like
03:07:40.900you know the the sort of marxists the the woke they all go with day d-e-i um the sort of like
03:07:47.440hardcore opponents who just d-g-a-f will say die and there's you're sort of the ones who are still0.92
03:07:54.920trying to chart the middle path uh will say edi because it's a bit more bloodless and bureaucratic
03:08:00.220But yeah, you know, departments all over North America now are hellbent on making sure that the professoriate resembles the world we live in today.0.71
03:08:15.060you know uh so you have to have for instance 50 female uh representation which uh because of
03:08:22.300course the um boomer portion of the professoriate which is easily half of it is pretty much1.00
03:08:28.960exclusively old white dudes uh and they're not going anywhere until they fucking die0.99
03:08:33.800they're holding on to those jobs with you know white knuckled grips um0.98
03:08:38.020And so the only way to achieve that balance is to really preferentially hire people from historically disadvantaged minority groups, you know, predominantly females, because let's face it, you don't actually get that many blacks who, you know, are even able to complete grad school in the more difficult disciplines.0.79
03:09:01.520um and asians don't quite qualify as diverse these days they're they're sort of you know
03:09:08.360it's actually kind of funny how that worked out you know really the alt-right joking about the
03:09:12.440you know asians being like you know honorary arians like back in like 2015 and that was
03:09:17.180like a meme and like they're like it seems like the the left kind of like picked that up in the
03:09:20.500last couple years uh but um which i think we all okay we all saw it coming because it's
03:09:28.040bio-Leninism, right? And like, you know, Asians are actually competent. So of course.1.00
03:09:33.080Yeah. But yeah. So I sort of like, you know, I found myself like at the end of the summer,
03:09:38.360just kind of like, okay, well, I haven't actually found a position yet. Well, this is shit. And I0.99
03:09:44.980just, you know, had, I could either have stayed in my extraordinarily expensive apartment in
03:09:50.560the US with an income of $0, or I could give away all of my furniture, leave the apartment
03:09:59.200and, you know, come and stay with family for a while. So I was like, well, I'll save a lot
03:10:05.300of money doing that. So fuck it. And yeah, I mean, the one thing that I do remember writing1.00
03:10:11.920in that that particular piece was that what what kind of gets me with the with the die stuff0.74
03:10:21.120is that they will you when you point out to them that this is like you know just open racial and0.94
03:10:29.760sexual discrimination and god i feel so fucking gay putting it in those terms um it's like i'm0.96
03:10:36.580whining you know uh i'm using their language but like when you point that out to them like0.98
03:10:41.080They'll usually retort, well, that's just to make up for historical inequities because, you know, back in the past, women were discriminated against and black people were discriminated against.
03:10:51.480So we have to have, you know, as per like Ibram X. Kendi, like, you know, positive discrimination now or whatever to make up for it.
03:10:58.240And the thing is, if you look at it historically, back in like, say, 1920 or something, right?
03:11:04.700So like everyone likes to bring up, for instance, the example of like, you know, someone like Mary Curry, who, you know, had to like fight to break the glass ceiling and such before, you know, her research killed her from cancer.0.53
03:11:16.140uh and the uh but the thing is you know she did get accepted why because the reason that women
03:11:26.280for example were excluded from the sciences was because the general opinion back then was
03:11:33.860well we don't really think you can do it so you know like we're kind of skeptical that you can0.52
03:11:40.660but if a woman came along and she proved that actually no she can you know play poker at the
03:11:47.020big boys table uh then the guys would just be like well okay yeah yeah sure like i guess you
03:11:53.180can play um because the focus was on the discipline it was on you know the activity
03:12:01.400right so like once you demonstrated that actually no you can do this uh you were in whereas what is
03:12:08.800happening now is much more they're sort of like well we don't care if you can do it
03:12:13.880and i think that's way worse because it's like yeah we don't care if you can do it you still
03:12:21.000can't do it and we don't care if this other person can't do it we're going to give them the job
03:12:25.400anyways and the result of that of course is that you know the institutions are filling up with
03:12:29.420incompetent midwits uh and they are hemorrhaging prestige as a result of that um you know the0.98
03:12:38.400universities are increasingly a fucking joke uh and you know people just openly acknowledge that0.99
03:12:44.580fact um more and more there's every year fewer uh 18 year olds even choose to go to university0.97
03:12:54.360because they're like they don't like the value isn't so obviously there a larger fraction of
03:12:59.860the population just tunes out everything that comes out of academia um and uh i kind of feel
03:13:09.980that like you know if you come back in 10 years maybe not it won't even take that long it's like
03:13:15.140yeah the you know the woke left will own the universities that won't change but they will
03:13:19.940reign over a kingdom of ashes it won't matter if they own it because it won't have any prestige
03:13:25.720and with no prestige there will be no cultural power associated with it well and that's a good
03:13:31.820point because again not to let's just mention him again edward dunn so edward dunn had actually
03:13:38.380released a video not long ago about this very topic the priest cycle in higher education yep
03:13:44.080yeah saying that and a lot of people in our scene even the guys from the nrx scene and the post nrx
03:13:50.760they've made comments that you know the only purpose of universities and the universities
03:13:55.920that matter is to confer status like if you want to be an elite you go to these schools that's the
03:14:01.420only reason you go to them even um and that's probably very very true uh but you know that is
03:14:06.280part of the tail end of the cycle because that status will go away as they just fill up with
03:14:12.220low status people exactly because why do they have status and they have status because they became
03:14:19.960concentrations of highly intelligent, genius IQ people who were doing interesting things.
03:14:28.560Even if your average person couldn't understand what they were doing, it was kind of cool that
03:14:33.320these smart people were there doing it. And every once in a while, something that was actually
03:14:36.080useful would come out of it. When it's all just nonsense, it loses status. And then there's no
03:14:43.340smart people there. Then the rich people are like, well, why do I want to send my kids to go study
03:14:47.640with a bunch of idiots uh that seems pointless then the rich people leave and okay now you don't1.00
03:14:53.160have smart people or rich people well you know like you're not going to have much in the way of1.00
03:14:56.940prestige are you um so i mean the one idea that occurred to me um is that you know we do have
03:15:05.420this sort of ersatz academy which is very rapidly self-organizing on the internet because you have
03:15:14.160an increasing number of people who either are getting locked out of the academy for political0.98
03:15:21.100reasons, or they're just saying, this is intolerable, fuck this, and just leaving on0.99
03:15:25.760their own. And it's, you know, intellectually curious people are not doing the things they do0.98
03:15:36.400because, you know, it's they get paid for it. It's because they like doing it, right? That's
03:15:41.440what makes them good at it in the first place so okay they leave they start self-organizing on the
03:15:45.800internet they continue doing what they were doing anyways finding ways to support themselves if they
03:15:50.200can um the so that there's a there's a potential for the prestige factor there uh the the key thing
03:15:58.560that's missing though is the credentialization because yes no one cares like okay like ed
03:16:05.940Dutton right uh to go back to his his example so he puts out all these videos uh and you know
03:16:11.920explaining like you know uh Evo bio concepts and things like that really useful if you want to like
03:16:16.640learn about this stuff he's a great guy to follow uh he's a great instructor and my understanding
03:16:21.480is he also will you know charge money for courses um if you want to go more in depth probably there0.78
03:16:26.160I haven't done it myself they're probably good but no one's going to give a shit that you did it0.75
03:16:30.300As it currently stands, what matters is what school did you go to? But employers are increasingly realizing that even, you know, a student who went to a top Ivy League school doesn't necessarily know shit from crushed raisins, that this is more of an indicator that they're well indoctrinated with the imperial grammar of woke than they are, you know, actually skilled or knowledgeable in what matters.0.95
03:16:58.120but they're also not going to care that you watched a bunch of youtube videos so what what
03:17:03.380one idea i've had is if you could have like stat like a an open source standardized testing system
03:17:10.360which you know you don't need the government to set that up you could do this privately
03:17:14.500um and you know just have it to be like a very objective subject specific kind of system so you
03:17:21.980know you have it for like you know there's your calc 2 and your algebra and geometry and your
03:17:26.520you know human evolution and biology like not like you know so it's not like uh sats or uh or
03:17:34.560gre's or or tests like that um it's like subject specific at the level of like a university course
03:17:40.720or a high school course and then you know how you learned the material is irrelevant what matters is
03:17:46.240how did you score on that test uh that would give employers an objective measure of how well
03:17:55.660someone has learned their material and how good of an employee they're likely to be
03:18:00.760um and that i think could prove sort of like if if peter teal is listening to this right like dude
03:18:09.160like this is something you want to fund this could actually be this would be like the sort of
03:18:13.340keystone element in enabling that ersatz academy to to provide the education it's capable of
03:18:24.100providing um while fully removing the prestige element from the legacy institutions and you
03:18:33.600what's an interesting example of what we're talking about at least this is my experience
03:18:37.820and it'll be a canadian example but it was the example of university of toronto because i think
03:18:43.800a lot of these bigger like prestige universities like yale and princeton and harvard they'll hang
03:18:50.900on just by their reputation but i know that a lot of employers university of toronto for people
03:18:56.600who don't know is like one of the biggest universities in canada it's in the top three
03:19:00.500of like our top universities in the country but i know that university of toronto does not have
03:19:05.360the luster that it used to have for the exact reasons that we're talking about right now it's
03:19:10.280a joke even even when i went there it was a joke um it uh yeah no one cared no one cared that you
03:19:20.820had a degree from U of T and there was a time there was a time when they did though too that's
03:19:28.400the thing it's like but now like a degree it's a big school like it's it's it's wealthy and you
03:19:34.420know Queens University is another Queens is one that likes to pretend it's Harvard you know but
03:19:40.560even they you know the funny thing with Queens is that yeah they think of themselves as Ivy League
03:19:46.460north but uh you go anywhere outside canada they've never heard of queen's university
03:19:52.400i know they're literally a legend in their own minds like but it's it's fine for people who
03:19:58.860don't know it's in kingston ontario canada and like you go there and the buildings they're nice
03:20:03.360and they're they're regal and it's it looks like a university that you'd want to go to in a movie
03:20:09.360or something but you know like you said it's a legend in its own mind i think yeah and that you
03:20:16.320know the the buildings the physical infrastructure it's one of the things that's kind of the most
03:20:22.040tragic about it because a lot of these universities do have really gorgeous campuses queens is
03:20:26.960certainly one of them western university i think also is really beautiful um a lot of the liberal
03:20:32.620arts colleges in the states and people rag on them but you know you go to the campuses and they're
03:20:36.240really pretty it's it's a lot like the mainline churches like the the old protestant denominations
03:20:42.900It's like the Anglican church or the, you know, Lutherans.
03:20:45.880And they have these gorgeous churches and cathedrals.
03:20:50.880And then you go inside and it's like the progress pride flag is hanging down, you know, over the stained glass windows.
03:20:57.220And there's like a literal dude with lipstick on who's like giving the benediction of, you know, St. Floyd or something.
03:21:27.820What happens is, what happens is we regroup outside of that, basically build the parallel society. And when the time comes, generation from now, maybe not even doesn't even take that long. We ultimately just go back in and we take those nice buildings for ourselves.
03:21:47.780And I think that's the way to look at it because I know some people, they roll their eyes when I
03:21:52.400start talking about this, about parallel societies and stuff. But I think you're asking the right
03:21:56.900questions, which is identifying what the universities and academia, high academia
03:22:02.480represents and figuring out ways to carve out new spaces for that. So if you can solve the question
03:22:07.880for education itself, plus the prestige, I think answering the prestige question is more interesting.
03:22:15.200And I think the prestige question is a bit more within our grasp, more than people think it is.
03:22:21.560Yes. And that's why I got interested in that credentialization question, right? Because
03:22:26.680people like to dump on universities for being credential mills because the credentials that1.00
03:22:34.340come out of them are fake and gay, right? Everyone knows it's just, it's at the Scarecrow's1.00
03:22:39.200university diploma, it doesn't mean he has a brain, you know, that's the joke. But it actually
03:22:47.100serves a valuable function. Like in a functioning society, you don't want to have to grill your
03:22:54.260doctor about his knowledge of nutrition and human anatomy for three hours before you decide whether
03:23:02.920or not you can trust his advice. You want to be able to go into the doctor's office and have a
03:23:08.320reasonable assumption that this guy knows what he's doing um right like that and that's the
03:23:13.600purpose of the credentials you kind of outsource that skill check to people who can you know uh
03:23:23.420who could do that test the problem becomes when the system gets gamed which is where we are now
03:23:29.120where you can't trust any of the credentials and then you know that's why you kind of roll your
03:23:32.780eyes at the credential bills. But the only serviceable answer that I see is, okay, that
03:23:39.440means you need a different way of credentialing. So, okay, figure out a different way of
03:23:44.280credentialing that's not in the hands of those people. And if it's more reliable than whatever
03:23:50.180they're using, their credential becomes worthless paper almost overnight. You know, probably not
03:23:57.360overnight, literally, you know, like social change takes a bit of time, but it can happen very
03:24:01.080quickly and you know once that happens the prestige that they command evaporates and it's in your
03:24:08.960hands now you know what's interesting and amusing i would say actually is that um the unintended
03:24:15.180consequence of them ruining these the ruining the i don't even call them credential mills because
03:24:21.540what they used to be was just credentializing institutions but they're being ruined so now
03:24:26.300people even the libs have necessarily become racist because now that now like you say you
03:24:34.580don't trust doctors so it's like if i see an indian doctor come into a room or a black doctor
03:24:39.500i no longer assume that i can no longer assume that he's passed the exact same tests however0.98
03:24:45.680if a white german doctor comes in at let's be honest everyone's a bit more at ease right and
03:24:53.080if you don't want to do the doctor example let's talk about the flying a plane example
03:24:56.900like at the end of the day you have to trust okay if it's a guy in a mustache a white guy
03:25:02.000in a mustache i know i'm gonna land safely because i no longer trust the pilot's exams
03:25:06.420i no longer trust any exams being given and that's a problem you don't even need to go that
03:25:10.960far i mean like you know i have you ever had the experience you're going through an airport
03:25:14.640and you've got like eight different custom desks you can you could you could go to and you kind
03:25:19.900like you scan them and like you know seven of them are you know uh hefty black women and like
03:25:30.160you know one of them has like a middle-aged white guy and you're like which one is going to be1.00
03:25:34.480faster yep and you know what i'll be fair i'll throw i'll throw in asian guys in there too if
03:25:40.800i see i'm like yeah you know what i'm gonna nod respectfully at this guy and i'm gonna get in and
03:25:46.860out. No, exactly. Exactly. I mean, that's always, it's one of the things I've always found most
03:25:54.140amusing in the left's characterization of racial realists as a bunch of white supremacists. And
03:26:04.680like every single one that I've known will tell you straight up that, you know, on average Asians,
03:26:12.200the evidence shows that Asians are a bit smarter than Europeans. And, you know, generally we have
03:26:16.620no trouble going to asians for professional services we have no trouble living alongside
03:26:20.920them it's definitely not an aspect it's not white supremacy it's just realism like yeah yeah like
03:26:30.920they're civilized they're smart we can deal with them it's fine there's that old bill burr joke
03:26:37.420that i'm not a huge fan of bill burr obviously these days but uh yeah this great joke that
03:26:42.080everyone's racist when they're walking on the street alone at night it's like you pull it pull
03:26:47.380everything away it's like you see like a couple black guys walking towards you i don't care what1.00
03:26:51.780huge shit lib you are you're going to cross the street and you won't cross the street if it's two0.99
03:26:56.320asian guys walking towards you that's just the lived reality when the rubber meets the road you1.00
03:27:01.160can't escape that the funny thing is i actually generally don't cross the street but that's0.98
03:27:06.300because i've been dead lifting for six years yeah well me too like especially if you live in a city
03:27:13.200and you've lived in a city like i have you learn to walk a certain way like you just kind of0.96
03:27:18.160through osmosis get this like don't fuck with me stance you're not oh totally but yeah and you know0.99
03:27:24.720if i if i pass that that group of like you know three uh three three hood rat looking black guys0.99
03:27:29.860on the street like a hundred percent like i i tense up a little bit the adrenaline starts
03:27:34.460starts pumping i start like you know my imagination starts like running through okay if they jump at
03:27:39.500me like hey what's my move you know um you know kind of like prepping battle prep you know but i
03:27:44.440think that even just doing that like puts out this kind of like radio signal emotionally that they0.99
03:27:52.540pick up on and they're like all right it's not a white guy i want to fuck with like let's leave0.98
03:27:56.500him alone right so like i've never actually had any problems but yeah like you're sort of um you0.99
03:28:01.200know typical like hollow chested shit lid like yeah they will totally get like super nervous and0.83
03:28:06.080not know how to deal with it it's really funny yeah they'll go the other way that the hollow0.99
03:28:11.840chested white guy will try and befriend them as he's walking by and they'll go what up black0.99
03:28:16.460lives matter and like even if i was a black guy i would beat the shit out of that guy on principle0.99
03:28:21.640oh they hate it it's this is the this is the other really funny thing that i've noticed um0.96
03:28:29.600in interracial interactions I mean you know having spent a lot of time hanging out with like0.98
03:28:38.160shit lib whites just because of my professional background um but you know uh I've also hung out0.97
03:28:44.840with a lot of you know more you know nationalist types who are pretty frank shall we say uh about0.98
03:28:51.420their um views on things is that you know when you're at the bar and you're uh interacting with
03:29:01.300uh people of the other race i find very often it's like you're more sort of like nationalist
03:29:07.460type whites who actually get along with them better you know first of all there's there's the
03:29:13.160the the based black man sort of stereotype right we're like on nine out of ten topics that don't
03:29:19.400involve race relations you probably see things in a very similar way like they they feel the same0.95
03:29:24.540way but homosexuality and trannies and feminism and all the stuff that like white guys do kind0.87
03:29:29.520of instinctively because black people are you know let's face it they're very instinctively people0.92
03:29:32.760uh but the other thing and i think it's more more um fundamental is that if you're just like0.50
03:29:42.140an unapologetic white person who's just like, yeah, I'm white. I like white people. I like
03:29:50.120being white. I'm not going to apologize for being white. I am what I am. Then black people will0.58
03:29:57.120usually sort of be like, oh, thank fucking God you're normal. Because there's something about1.00
03:30:03.940that apologetic cringing shit lib attitude of like oh i'm so sorry for everything that my people0.98
03:30:13.000have done to you and you know then like you know that that emotive way they talk to the women0.97
03:30:18.540especially that i think they well i don't think this like i've had some of them just like straight
03:30:25.200up tell me um that they don't trust it it strikes them as fundamentally dishonest uh and they're
03:30:31.940like okay what kind of white trick are you are you pulling here right so it gets their backup you
03:30:36.720know and you and you also have a certain contempt for it quite naturally if someone's like coming0.93
03:30:40.840coming up to you like some kind of cringing helot wanting to lick your boots you're not going to
03:30:46.080respect or like this person right if someone approaches you with like a straight back looks
03:30:51.460you in the eye you know like doesn't try to start a fight with you or whatever but is this kind of
03:30:56.040like you know not backing down we're like all right cool like you know we can deal with this
03:31:01.000you walk in there you know you got your hitler mustache on firm handshakes say billions must0.93
03:31:07.240die i'll tell you what they'll like you for it and to your to your point let me just say0.91
03:31:13.060even a guy like david duke i know he would never do this but we all know david duke is we know we0.96
03:31:18.600we're familiar with him if he wanted to i'm not saying you would if he wanted to he could slay a0.99
03:31:24.540cathedral of black pussy if he has that power i've actually seen i've actually seen this dynamic1.00
03:31:33.900um like close up their uh good friend of mine um is a uh i wouldn't even call her like a based1.00
03:31:42.700black girl like she she was like a full-on blm supporter in the whole bit right um but we actually1.00
03:31:47.140got along really well uh and she fucking hated liberal white women so much it was really funny0.98
03:31:51.680But she ended up marrying a, like, conservative, gun-toting, Trump-voting, like, Italian dude.0.99
03:32:04.780Like, ultimately, humans respect humans who respect themselves.
03:32:13.280And if you don't respect yourself, no one's going to respect you.
03:32:17.540And they're not going to trust you either because like, okay, like, you know, what's the game here? Like no one really doesn't respect themselves, right? Like, well, I mean, there's only two possibilities. Like either they're really like that, in which case they're a fucking worm and it's like, it's unseemly. Or it's all an act, in which case they're a different kind of worm, right? And I think this is like the big thing that shit live whites like really don't get.
03:32:44.920i agree um there's one i know you got to get going soon actually but there's a couple things i wanted0.98
03:32:51.180to get back to before we go if that's all possible because i really wanted to just dive
03:32:56.080a little bit more into tonic masculinity because there's something i wanted to bring up
03:33:00.200and i think it ties a lot of this stuff together um and i'm going to be careful when i say this
03:33:06.400because i don't want to sound too mean to boomers now i'm not one of these guys that lays every
03:33:11.640problem that we face now at the feet of the boomers like a lot of people do no but it's a0.54
03:33:16.680fun game to play it really it really gets them wound up even though on our store we have a shirt0.93
03:33:21.820that says every boomer is the antichrist that i understand that will be used against me however
03:33:28.320that's a bit of a joke shirt but what is this what is this boomer love man you're cucking hard here
03:33:34.980this is terrible well just because it's to me like this idea of an intergenerational war is0.99
03:33:42.720very strange to me and it doesn't seem to have it's actually it's actually fucked but the problem0.91
03:33:48.540is that boomers invented it exactly but i honestly i'm saying this because i'm about to give boomers0.68
03:33:55.740a bit of guff but i find this idea of tonic masculinity or tonic masculinity almost the
03:34:01.460antidote to boomer masculinity i'll give an example uh from my own life from the coin purse
03:34:07.580of dimes um it's uh my own grandfather and who was um an interesting guy nothing loathsome about him
03:34:15.860um in canadian terms he would call himself a red tory so he's probably one of these socially
03:34:21.020liberal fiscally conservative the type of guy that can't can't exist anymore but um his he had
03:34:26.980a very boomerish form of masculinity that you would see um a lot of older especially white guys
03:34:33.380but i think older guys do too where they were very hands-off with raising their children and
03:34:37.800i remember he because i went to culinary school first to learn how to cook and i still like to
03:34:43.860cook i cook with my wife we cook we cook a lot at home and things like that and he looked at a man
03:34:48.520cooking and he kind of chuckled and he would smuggle at that idea like oh like i'm less of1.00
03:34:53.920a man for cooking but that's fucking gay that's fucking gay not not not not not i'm not saying1.00
03:35:01.400cooking is gay cooking is human um i'm saying that attitude is fucking gay exactly it's a it's a1.00
03:35:08.080survival thing too like what what's that about but that's a lot of guys that generation had that0.99
03:35:12.520that's women's work similarly uh spending time with your kids was women's work and then they
03:35:18.800they end up being like why do my kids only see me as a resource provider as a bank right it's like
03:35:24.760well that but to me with my uh son on the way it would never and maybe this is just a generational
03:35:30.560thing or being raised up in this community of crazies like us but i'm like the idea of raising
03:35:36.760my son and spending a lot of time with him to teach him lessons seems crucially important to me0.89
03:35:42.440the idea of just like being hands off and not giving a shit i'm like well you you that that0.90
03:35:47.300tells me you don't know much about the world the world's a scary place why would it unless you had0.86
03:35:50.880no wisdom to impart but the idea of your taunting masculinity as you outlined in your piece i found
03:35:56.760this so fascinating was one of the ways you define it is by um caring about your community1.00
03:36:02.440helping your community i think that was absent with a lot of the boomers and the idea of caring
03:36:07.320and being invested not as a feminine characteristic but as like a builder as a leader uh is that an
03:36:15.400an accurate assessment in your mind? 100%. 100%. And I totally agree with that assessment
03:36:21.000to the boomers. I mean, in fairness to them, they mostly grew up in this kind of very deracinated0.85
03:36:27.000suburban environment where, you know, there was no community. And they were raised on the kind of
03:36:32.800John Wayne, cowboy individualism as the kind of masculine archetype, which emphasizes self-reliance,
03:36:42.120which is important. You don't want to be the weak link in the chain, right?
03:36:51.080But that level of individualism can become quite pathological. And with them, I think it did.
03:36:58.920And there's definitely a thing where the boomers just utterly failed to pass on0.75
03:37:10.360really much of anything so i know so many young guys who are kind of pissed that you know they
03:37:22.120weren't taught how to navigate with a map and compass they weren't taught how to uh do like
03:37:27.720basic carpentry or you know uh engine mechanics or sort of like you know all of those kind of like
03:37:33.780life skill type things that you know their dads knew how to do because they learned it from their
03:37:38.040dads um and just never passed it on to their kids and then you're kind of sitting around you know0.90
03:37:43.080you're 30 years old you've never been taught to do any of this shit you have to figure it out for0.97
03:37:46.560yourself um you know a lot of guys don't even get to the point of like maybe i should learn how to0.98
03:37:50.980do this for myself they just they're sort of useless uh but you know even if you're motivated0.99
03:37:55.720to not be useless you get kind of frustrated because you're like well shit i should have0.98
03:37:59.900been taught how to do this when i was 15 years old not sitting here when i'm 30 trying to you0.99
03:38:04.500know, figure it out from YouTube videos. Right. Um, so yeah, man, I am a hundred percent there
03:38:11.620with you. Like that is, if you have a son, like that is essential, like not just spending time
03:38:17.820with them playing video games or whatever, which is also good, but like taking him out,
03:38:23.360playing ball with him, taking him camping, showing him how to pitch a tent, showing him how to
03:38:26.660navigate in the woods, showing him how to do like just stuff, you know? And like in the core,
03:38:35.100it's not just the specific skills you're passing on, many of which are, you know, maybe not so,
03:38:40.220so useful in the modern world all the time. In the course of doing that, you're teaching him
03:38:44.840how to be a man because he's learning how to be a man from you. And like, there's all of this
03:38:50.860implicit knowledge that gets passed on through that, that, that, you know, they're not going
03:38:55.660to get from the school system. They're not going to get from television, from the internet, any of
03:38:59.640it. And another thing that I think is important, and this is sometimes when we come to these
03:39:06.460conclusions, because we know what was missing in our youth. But one thing that I want, as I was
03:39:12.440reading your piece, it occurred to me that prioritizing failure and experimentation. And
03:39:20.700when I say experimentation, a lot of people's minds jump to like sexual experimentation. That's
03:39:25.120not what i mean at all especially for young men i meant the idea of like trying and failing and
03:39:30.160getting better and i feel like a lot of that was lost in that generation as well of saying that
03:39:34.980you know what you not only is failure okay because you learn from failure but when you're young you
03:39:40.860should actually be trying stuff and failing to get better at it it's going to be a lot of failure
03:39:45.060until you get great at something but you should almost run towards that and enjoy that you know
03:39:50.620what i mean and you it's another great point in another piece i had read um i think it was uh
03:39:56.480the truth hurts piece where you said like your your history because you're also in the military
03:40:01.000briefly as well um your history of pushing pushing through pain and and the how important
03:40:08.660pain is to a developing man i think if you remove that pain and that that almost like the love and
03:40:16.360getting used to pushing yourself through pain that almost throws your entire life off its track
03:40:21.180would that be fair to say 100 yeah i mean the main the main point i was making in truth hurts was um
03:40:28.240that learning something that conflicts with your with your pre-existing beliefs uh you know
03:40:38.280canonical example would be like confronting a shit lib with some kind of like race realism
03:40:42.320statistic or something right like this this conflicts they get the cognitive dissonance0.89
03:40:46.100like that can't be true because if it was true then so much of you know what i believe which
03:40:50.680is based on that would have to be revised and their whole worldview and they can't do it right
03:40:54.480it hurt the brain interprets contrary information as physical pain and we live in this very
03:41:08.240comfortable world where you know we have climate controlled rooms we have comfy chairs you know0.99
03:41:15.520uh we uh we don't have to go out into the chicken coop and uh chase away a fucking rooster trying to0.99
03:41:22.620attack us in order to get our eggs in the morning and then you know scrape the chicken shit off the0.99
03:41:26.940egg before eating it um we can just go to the grocery store and all of this comfort means that
03:41:34.220we're not used to physical pain nearly as much as our ancestors were. And I think, and this is just
03:41:42.380a theory, this is kind of like a Nietzschean, you know, connection between like the body and the
03:41:46.920mind and the spirit, that if you're not used to that kind of physical pain, that actually makes
03:41:52.440you more aversive, sorry, more averse to intellectual or mental pain, which makes it
03:41:59.280harder for you to revise incorrect beliefs about the world, especially ones which are
03:42:06.300relatively deeply seated, upon which many other beliefs are based. And I think, to a degree,
03:42:13.680a lot of the insanity of the contemporary situation of all of these people who just
03:42:17.960cannot confront reality is because they can't deal with pain. Even the smallest thing is like
03:42:25.200agony to them so given all of that um yeah you like young men need to boys especially especially
03:42:36.120boys uh when they're sort of coming out of the the nursery stage you know um going out into the
03:42:44.260homestead going out into the wild wood as my friend doc hammer put it uh i'm gonna give still
03:42:51.280another friend substack here lovely little allegory um called the wild wood uh the homestead
03:42:57.580of the wild wood or something um i'm kind of explaining like you know the roles played by
03:43:02.340mother and father in uh in in bringing a child to adulthood if you don't learn to deal with pain
03:43:12.380because like you'll never be able to become an adult you just can't and then like you'll always
03:43:20.640be held back. You'll always be unable to push yourself forward and do difficult things.
03:43:29.280One metaphor I like to think of is weightlifting. Like anyone who's ever been in the gym for an
03:43:34.340extended period of time, who's like really gotten serious about it, knows that it hurts.
03:43:39.800Lifting weights is painful. Your muscles ache. But after a very short period of time,
03:43:46.800you actually learn to love it you're like oh yeah my pecs are really stiff and sore right now
03:43:53.480that means i had a great workout you know like you're kind of almost proud of the pain
03:43:58.920and by embracing it by pushing forward into that you get stronger and stronger over time
03:44:04.240i'm the same way because i work out pretty early in the morning and i know if i'm walking through
03:44:09.380the office and i was doing squats that morning or something and i've got just you know that feeling
03:44:14.260when you have squats legs and i'm just oh yeah it kind of hurts to walk but i like and like you're
03:44:19.700like looking you're like looking at the office chair and you're like you're dreading sitting
03:44:23.060down because you're like oh man yeah but like you said you get end up almost addicted to that
03:44:29.080when i if i haven't punched the bag for a while my forearms will be sore i'm like this feels so
03:44:34.040cool and you had an interesting um i think in that very same piece on an implication that had
03:44:39.840never occurred to me before but it was that perhaps a great many of the um the individuals
03:44:46.000in our scene who are like the most noteworthy have some kind of history of pain not subjecting
03:44:51.980themselves to pain but perhaps they had a history of something where they were subjected to it
03:44:55.920against their will and yes now that that affected them not not traumatize them but it gets you used
03:45:01.300to in a way other people and i think that must be like you had said and again it never occurred to
03:45:06.880the reason that they can't psychologically deal with some of our ideas and to us they're not scary
03:45:12.180they're not scary ideas it would be strange for us to be scared by an idea but to them when you've
03:45:18.000confronted something that's genuinely agonizing then like small things don't matter to you so
03:45:22.680much anymore it's like near it's like people have gone through near-death experiences like0.77
03:45:25.780the small shit doesn't bother them right and a lot and you know for them almost everything is0.88
03:45:30.380small shit and yeah so like I mean I've got uh several friends in you know um in our thing who0.99
03:45:37.160uh you know I know pretty well and I know I know the biographies and like they have sustained0.97
03:45:44.080earlier and it was before they sort of got political right before they started you know
03:45:49.360really questioning stuff um and they sustained like in some cases rather horrific injuries
03:45:54.860that were just like you know nothing like i've ever gone through um and it was after that that
03:46:00.820they would have you know maybe some kind of inciting incident that got them to sort of
03:46:04.760ask an important question about the things that they had always assumed to be true
03:46:09.680and rather than running away from that as so many people do they would sort of be like well
03:46:18.460but is it true and they would push into it and you know next thing you know uh
03:46:24.080well we all know the direction it goes right um so yeah that's that's speculation on my part like
03:46:31.240i don't know how common that is uh but there does seem to be a larger fraction than you would sort
03:46:40.980of expect who would either had like physically traumatic things happen and emotionally traumatic
03:46:44.740things happen they sort of successfully dealt with maybe both um or have some experience some
03:46:52.160background in extremely physically taxing, uh, activities like high performance athletics,
03:47:00.100like military training, um, these, these, these kinds of things, uh, that seems to me to be a bit
03:47:08.500more common than you find in sort of the general population. I agree with that. And before I know
03:47:14.100we need to get going soon, but I just wanted to say before we go, um, I briefly, I'd misspoke
03:47:19.080where i said you were briefly in the military i did that came out wrong i didn't want to imply
03:47:23.040that your military history was too short but it was it was only a few years but a few years
03:47:31.140to me brief would be someone who like goes through basic trading and then drops out because i've seen
03:47:36.760that happen too but i think i i do a guy in basic and this this i'll never stop laughing about this0.99
03:47:43.440idiot. So in the Canadian military, for anyone who's never been in, when you're doing basic0.99
03:47:52.560training, the cap badge that they issue you for your beret is sort of a generic Canadian forces
03:48:00.580cap badge because you are not yet good enough to have the unit cap badge. You only get that when
03:48:08.440complete basic training right so there's this one retard in our in our basic training platoon1.00
03:48:17.420who goes out on our first leave weekend two weeks into the course0.90
03:48:22.580and gets the unit cap badge tattooed on his arm oh no yeah guess who dropped out
03:48:31.560oh man i thought you're gonna say like he went to an army surplus store and got like
03:48:37.720of knockoff of the badge did something like that that's almost worse though dude it's it's so much
03:48:43.340worse it's so much worse it's like he's like walk it's like a badge of shame for the rest of his
03:48:47.140life reminding him that like you know i'm not even sure i'm not sure exactly why he dropped it it's0.99
03:48:51.480not like i was close to the guy or anything but like you know he was he was a fuck up that was0.99
03:48:55.700obvious to all of us uh you know you know it sucks though he's probably out there right now at a bar0.99
03:49:01.320and a woman's like what's that tattoo me he's like yes when i was in the military and then
03:49:06.400she'll say oh yeah he's like i don't want to talk about it and that's gonna be good enough
03:49:11.560good enough for that i don't know i almost hope he's like he's like in like a tent city like
03:49:18.300smoking meth or something yeah like that well it's right the point i was gonna make was like
03:49:23.660what's interesting though is um when you were i was reading that it made me think because uh
03:49:28.280military guys tend to be pretty big into our scene and by our scene it's a pretty broad scene i group
03:49:33.600a lot of people like the trad cats and whatever on our side um the dissident right broadly but i
03:49:39.780find military guys tend to obviously be more on our side i was i always thought people would say
03:49:45.060that's because they're so disciplined and they are but i'm also like maybe it's also because0.83
03:49:49.080they've been through shit in training at whatever level they were at and that might be a factor of0.97
03:49:55.220it too that you've been pushed so hard that that you that's essentially physical trauma getting0.99
03:50:01.500through some of these courses and shit 100 if you have you know done if you have like you know
03:50:06.880crawled through mud while live machine gun rounds or you know firing over your head uh as you're0.99
03:50:14.560trying to avoid getting your web gear caught on barbed wire right you know if you've done shit0.98
03:50:19.780like that yeah you know someone saying that's racist is is the volume gets turned way down0.86
03:50:28.080it's the fight club thing right you know like after the guys after edward norton has been in0.97
03:50:32.740fight club for like a few months like and his boss comes in to yammer at him about shit about0.99
03:50:37.040stupid shit like he's just like you know uh um charlie brown teacher voice kind of thing like1.00
03:50:44.680he just he just don't care as much anymore it's not or it's like someone who has spent their1.00
03:50:50.400entire life being coddled in a very soft feminized school system and has never left it which you
03:50:57.080Actually, to go back to academia, I think this is actually one of the huge problems and probably one of the reasons why I am like one of the mutants on whom the conditioning didn't take is that I not only was having experiences outside academia, like being in the military, for instance, but, you know, I also spent several years outside of academia.
03:51:20.020Like I, you know, I finished my undergrad and then I, you know, went off and I taught English in Japan for, you know, a few years and I did a bunch of other stuff, you know, manual labor, stuff like that.
03:51:30.280And, you know, then I went back to grad school as a more mature student.
03:51:34.680And all of the other grad students that I knew, like they had been in, they were, of course, much younger than me and they had been in school continuously since they were like, what, four years old, like kindergarten all the way through to their PhDs.
03:51:48.880and they'll never leave well i mean right yeah exactly right i mean like you know that's that's
03:51:54.800kind of their their game plan right um but you know i don't want to say like oh they don't know
03:51:59.560what the real world is like but you know they kind of don't actually like they've never really
03:52:04.700been challenged and they've that's not even fair because school can be challenging in the more
03:52:11.520difficult disciplines, but they've always been in a situation where their self-esteem is dependent
03:52:19.420on the approval of authority, on the pat on the head from teacher. And they've very rarely been
03:52:25.200in a situation where they were in some kind of physical danger or severe physical discomfort
03:52:31.300for an extended period of time or anything like that. And it makes them very emotionally soft,
03:52:38.120very neurotic, very overly concerned with the opinions of others, and therefore emotionally
03:52:46.360malleable, very tractable, very biddable as a result. And what's interesting is nothing is
03:52:53.320contextualized because as I've gone through life and I've gotten into more, you know, I got into
03:52:58.320boxing and I got into weight training and I got into shooting. I do shotgun trap and skeet and
03:53:04.720stuff and it's like the moment and and just like the trauma thing it's like it allows you to
03:53:10.260contextualize things differently and refocus on things but for these people everything is the
03:53:15.760exact same level of trauma but once you kind of experience real pain and become kind of tactical
03:53:21.220and how you live your life and a bit more disciplined things like you said it back to
03:53:26.860the fight club thing um you know i've always liked that movie and it's it's more poignant than people
03:53:31.440give it credit for but it's like letting things that don't matter truly slide and for some people
03:53:38.200nothing doesn't matter they can't say anything doesn't matter everything has to matter and i
03:53:43.740think that's a big difference between of the size as they're kind of talking across each other
03:53:48.840they end up like chat gpt being unable to distinguish between using a racial slur and0.93
03:53:55.360nuking an entire city right like better that billions die than like the n-bomb get dropped
03:54:01.200you know um exactly oh i anyway i'm aware that you have to get going now this has been a very
03:54:08.720good episode i don't want to keep you too long um is there any uh last points that you wanted
03:54:14.500to get across we covered everything that i wanted to talk about um but was there anything that you
03:54:19.440really had burning a hole in your brain that you wanted to bring up not really um anyone is
03:54:25.200interested come check out my uh check out my sub stack postcards from barsoom um and uh we
03:54:32.560recently started up a slack for paying subscribers called deimos station um where we're you know0.74
03:54:40.100basically just under like shit posting about like you know uh curtis yarvin and ai and uh demonology0.57
03:54:48.280and cod like you know like all sorts of random stuff that uh weird autists like to talk about0.91
03:54:57.020um so yeah that's sort of my uh my my my my shilling i guess that i wanted to get off my chest
03:55:05.080let me ask you this is there a podcast because i'm looking at on your sub stack a martian
03:55:09.940wonderland oh yeah yeah so a few weeks ago um i uh started with my friend jay rollins
03:55:16.940so this is it's so yeah martian wonderland it's like you know because like post you know okay so
03:55:22.580you know people who don't know their pulp uh weird fiction history edgar rice burroughs this is where
03:55:28.500my my nom de guerre comes from john carter of mars uh barsoom is mars basically um and then
03:55:36.340jay has the wonderland rules so he's like a social dynamicist uh you might call him sort of like
03:55:43.800an autist who had to teach himself the rules of social dynamics um and in the context of what is
03:55:54.840usually referred to as game uh although he likes to refer to it as the dance because he thinks
03:56:01.120that's a better framing that takes some of the psychopathy uh and like the sort of manipulative
03:56:05.920machiavellianism out of uh pickup artistry and turns it into more of like you know understood
03:56:11.140just like a sort of cooperative venture with the girl that you're talking to and i actually think
03:56:15.480that's it's quite clever um so he he uh he does what he calls dance classes on his uh substack
03:56:22.320he's also like a he's an editor and uh he's been in the literary world for some time so we've been
03:56:28.940sort of going back and forth and hanging out uh over substack for several months and uh decided
03:56:34.940to start this podcast where we just kind of bat different topics back and forth um it's
03:56:41.020it can get a little contentious at times because he uh he came into the dissident sphere from a0.98
03:56:47.880completely different direction so he came at a stupid pole right so he's he's like um0.92
03:56:54.820he's not a marxist but he kind of came out of like the old left uh and like so he has like0.98
03:57:00.380the priors from that and like but you know he's very much like hates the identity politics stuff
03:57:04.720wants to destroy the woke left all of that is the tonic masculinity thing was actually his idea
03:57:11.680i should say um and yes uh he was like he was like john gotta write about this this is a great
03:57:20.640idea and i was like actually that is a good idea okay um which if you read if you if you go back
03:57:24.720and read the piece like i give him a shout out there and like you know stole the term from him
03:57:29.420basically. Um, so yeah, we, that's, uh, that's a podcast we've been doing, but, uh, just we're
03:57:34.840at the third episode. Well, second episode, cause the first was episode zero, um, got posted today.
03:57:43.560Uh, I don't know. People seem to like it. Uh, it's still new. So, you know, if you, uh, if your
03:57:48.100listeners want to, uh, see what, uh, what the man from Mars and, uh, the, uh, the based Jew,
03:57:56.080base jewish editor uh have to say about these things um then uh it's uh i don't know i'm having
03:58:03.120fun doing it that's great hey i'm somewhat biased but i think more people should be podcasting i
03:58:09.600think i think it's i haven't had to listen to this one yet but i'm going to give it a shot
03:58:12.620and i encourage everyone else to uh again it's a bar soon b-a-r-s-o-o-m dot substack.com is the
03:58:21.180place to go also uh you can find yourself on twitter um and there was another location as
03:58:27.220well and until if you look at like telegrams from barsoom on on telegram uh i'm there i i'm probably
03:58:33.800one of the few people who have more more followers on my telegram account than i have my twitter
03:58:37.320account because my twitter account it's like you know i am a tadpole on from twitter i've got like
03:58:41.980100 followers there i just started it up i like i keep getting banned yeah that's why i got
03:58:49.220frustrated with Twitter. You know, I was just like, I kept getting banned and I was just like,
03:58:52.540eh, you know, you know, and, uh, it just like, wasn't worth it after a while. And then like,
03:58:57.100you know, daddy Musk bought it and I was like, okay, maybe I'll have another look at this then
03:59:00.700could be a, I basically started the Twitter account up to, uh, try and use that to
03:59:06.780get more subscribers for my sub stack. Um, I've really been using the sub stack more as like a
03:59:14.400social network than Twitter, um, which it turns out you can actually do fairly effectively.
03:59:20.440And it's, I find it very interesting because like, if you, if you go to my, my sub stack,
03:59:26.040you'll see that a lot of my pieces tend to get like a fair amount of engagement and
03:59:30.100pretty high quality engagement too. Like at the comment section, I, there's some commentators
03:59:35.220that I think are, I'm pretty sure are smarter than I am. Um, and, uh, quite a few of them,
03:59:41.640actually it's and then you know i'll see other sub stacks uh from you know sometimes you know
03:59:48.420relatively big names on on twitter um that uh probably have more subscribers than i do honestly
03:59:57.180and like i've seen i've seen sometimes people like post their their view count numbers and
04:00:02.500they actually blow me out of the water but they'll have like five comments on a piece video
04:00:05.620uh yeah and i think i think that's because like the uh the engagement you get from the
04:00:12.960sub stack users like they're actually very high quality um uh subscribers who like you know
04:00:20.840actually you know want to go in there and comment and start a conversation whereas i think like
04:00:25.900maybe your typical uh twitter user you know they might read it but they're not going to actually
04:00:30.500bother commenting on it or subscribing or things like that another friend of mine you know he's uh
04:00:37.060he's been lucky enough to uh get boosted on revolver a few times this is uh rollo slavsky
04:00:45.540this is slavland chronicles mostly commenting on the ukrainian war uh and uh uh sometimes talking
04:00:54.980about you know christianity and metaphysics and stuff too he's really interesting he's a great
04:00:59.220writer good friend of mine um and his his his view counts can blow mine out of the water when
04:01:04.980he gets boosted on revolver but he doesn't get any subs from it yeah that's something i'm very
04:01:10.340interested in um just for because i like the marketing perspective about the types of audiences
04:01:16.360people get because every audience has a flavor and for some of these bigger names they will have
04:01:21.460an audience that might be substantial but doesn't like to engage with them and that relationship is
04:01:27.500different. Whereas you could have a smaller group of followers who are way, way more active and like
04:01:33.940engaging with you and sometimes engaging in different ways. And though I think that one is
04:01:39.480better. I like that. I would rather have smaller and more active. And then sometimes they're active
04:01:44.940negative versus positive. There's all different ways to do it, but that's what moderation is for,
04:01:51.460you know like so yeah um you know anyone who does want to come into my comment section uh you know
04:01:58.140it is always open and i absolutely want to hear from you but if you come in there with some kind
04:02:03.440of overly spicy username like sorry i'm probably going to suspend you like you know there's a
04:02:08.980dress code um yeah probably the quality of the discourse will go down this is the issue right0.96
04:02:16.040it's a salon. It's meant for like, you know, interesting discussion. I, I'm, I, I don't care
04:02:22.460what people say. You can say anything you want. I don't want people fighting and insulting each
04:02:29.940other to keep it civilized. That's sort of like the thing. Um, but yeah, I mean, in terms of like
04:02:35.040audience development, uh, sort of the choice I made early on was to sort of go for like a more
04:02:41.540organic growth strategy where I would sort of like seek out those more like engaged interested
04:02:46.120users by sort of basically promoting my sub stack in the comment sections of other sub stacks
04:02:52.160reasoning that you know people who read the comments are likely to also comment and that
04:03:00.020turned out to actually work really well yeah and it is interesting like seeing how like the kind
04:03:08.100of like more twitter centric sub stackers like they really don't get the same level of engagement
04:03:13.180i find unless they have like really huge sub stacks um on the other hand you know it does
04:03:19.020give them more reach you know like i i won't lie i get a little jealous when i see someone's got
04:03:22.940like a hundred thousand views on something and they just started it i'm like come on well it's
04:03:27.360interesting because you'd point out something that i've noticed before that i don't know how
04:03:31.640to describe this but there's almost like there's people who prefer certain types of platforms i
04:03:35.760find the people who really love twitter and prefer twitter and are dying to stay on there they yeah
04:03:43.120they're unable for that to cross over to long form and they have a different sort of personality
04:03:48.700in a sense yes and and there's a whole culture that's developed like around like frog twitter
04:03:54.080for instance that's like very it doesn't work outside of twitter so much so i find like what
04:03:59.980a lot of them like they'll we'll start a sub stack i think they get a fair number of their
04:04:05.000friends will go and read it which is great um but I think like then like the conversation
04:04:09.700about the piece will largely then take place on twitter like they don't bother with the comment
04:04:14.220section yeah that's that's kind of which is fine I mean like you know it's uh people are writing
04:04:21.660interesting stuff and having those interesting conversations and I think that's the most
04:04:26.180important thing ultimately because as long as these conversations are taking place
04:04:32.880because we're developing what comes next right yeah which is kind of my my main thing actually0.98
04:04:44.400that i'm trying to do at postcards from barsoom is like not just complain about all the fucking0.85
04:04:51.320problems because god knows there's a lot of them not just say what we're against you know like0.90
04:04:57.880really focus on what we're for um that's what i'm most excited this whole interview we didn't even
04:05:04.920get to that 2043 piece and i heard you guys talking about that the other day but we'll have
04:05:09.360to uh we'll have to talk about that some other time i think i know yeah because we didn't get
04:05:14.640to like there's a lot of good posts on there so people go and check that out um but yeah my co-host
04:05:20.220was probably discussing it and he really liked the piece too i know the first one we saw was
04:05:23.840tonic masculinity um and my co-host liked it and he's not a guy who usually likes things
04:05:29.440or people he doesn't like me that much and he liked that piece yeah he's the uh he's he's he's
04:05:36.320the one who keeps hitting the uh billions must die button yeah he's a he's he's a political guy
04:05:42.020but he is so pushed through the edge like he doesn't see any solution and he can get a lot
04:05:48.720of fun ideas once you're out that far but he's also like um he's he's a bit more closer to what
04:05:55.500you might think where like he judges people by you know the strength of their character he's big
04:06:00.820onto like do you have a family do you have a job are you a type of person i can who seems cool0.99
04:06:06.620because if you're not i want nothing to do with you at all because you're probably fucked up in0.85
04:06:11.800some other way so he he's very like you know he wants to be a homesteader he wants to go off grid0.96
04:06:16.820like me so you know he just wants to i i joke that he's made me an ancap where i just want
04:06:23.640nukes and slaves i'm just gonna be a nuke and slave guy private military whatever
04:06:27.640it's like that it's like that meme with the ancap the ancap all meme where like uh you know you're
04:06:35.360at thanksgiving dinner and your relative and you you say like the second amendment shall not be
04:06:40.740infringed and you know your liberal app says but what about nuclear weapons and then like the next
04:06:46.300panel is like you know it's all like radioactive and he's just like shall not yeah well that thing0.89
04:06:52.780it's like oh so you want to be like a meme yeah i'm gonna be a fucking meme how about that i'm0.91
04:06:58.200gonna be a retard i am all in favor of backyard nukes man like i've i've got a whole thing about0.93
04:07:07.300how like molten salt reactors or thorium reactors or things like that like this like you know they0.92
04:07:15.400didn't want to pursue this technology because that would actually lead to small-scale self-sufficient
04:07:21.640communities it didn't have to be on the grid unlike things like solar power and wind power0.99
04:07:26.280which are fucking mean technologies fuck0.99
04:07:29.040hey baby i hear the blues are calling cause salads and scrambled eggs0.99
04:07:35.180and maybe i seem a bit confused yeah maybe but i got you peg