00:30:06.740The fact that you're kind of dodging it and arresting reporters and newsmen at the site
00:30:12.660makes me think that it's a whole lot of copium on the side of these quote-unquote experts
00:30:18.180saying that it was the right decision just call me crazy but when the government goes out of their
00:30:23.640way to hide something it's usually not because they had a really great rationalization for doing
00:30:28.900the thing it's usually because they had a horrible and selfish rationalization for doing a thing and
00:30:33.420they don't want to talk about it and likewise with the derailment this was not a tragic accident that
00:30:39.420no one could have predicted literally everybody involved could have and did predict it was going
00:30:44.320to happen and then it happened because of what they had been doing with the unions and with
00:30:48.960rail maintenance and everything in that region in that what is like the uh like north north i
00:30:53.920forget the name of the rail line but that rail line had been struggling with these issues for
00:30:57.700months yeah i'll let me read the post just to i think back that up now this is a post that was
00:31:03.840made on 4chan but it seems to check out it just kind of summarizes it pretty well it says
00:31:09.000uh joe biden forced the rail unions to stop striking by threatening them with all with life
00:31:15.120in prison the rail unions were striking in november and december over something called
00:31:19.200psr psr is precision scheduled railroading it means fewer crews less maintenance fewer days
00:31:26.760off longer trains and just general unsafe business practices all the name of keeping
00:31:31.780trains moving at all times to maximize profits on february 3rd a train heading from illinois
00:31:37.600towards conway station ran over a sensor that detects heat on the train wheels and axles that
00:31:43.360told them that their wheels were on fire instead of stopping and inspecting and repairing the damage
00:31:49.300the crew of the train was ordered to dispatch to keep going towards conway so forever 20 miles
00:31:54.660until it hit east palestine the train was going 30 miles an hour with its wheels melting and they
00:32:00.080knew it that's the story i mean i i can believe that story because uh the others and this is what
00:32:06.620was talking about with the this event so like the day of you're thinking tragedy what are they
00:32:11.840covering up really what this is a story of is gross federal mismanagement of the rail lines
00:32:18.260and there's a good friend of the show uh who knows quite a bit about this i'm trying to see
00:32:23.440if i can get him back on to really give us a shotgun blast of train autism because it's
00:32:28.940fascinating like trains are fascinating i'm not just doing that doing the bit i'm not doing the
00:32:33.700bit on trains but if you care about you know the the matrix of shipping lines that they have in
00:32:40.060north america and how much that means to everything happening it's good to know but
00:32:45.640that the story here is that rail lines have been neglected for decades maybe a century depending
00:32:52.840how some of these rail lines if you there's an image i'm looking at right now of like a train0.83
00:32:57.660in ohio going down the rail lines and these rail lines are fucked up they're all they're curved and0.94
00:33:04.320warped just from not being maintained it's just these these rail lines are fucked up so it's like0.89
00:33:10.820yeah it's a matter of time until and this is before you introduce sabotage by the way this0.98
00:33:16.800is before this these are rail lines that no one really gives a shit about and if like if you were0.73
00:33:21.260like a terroristic minded person you could do a lot with this i'm not trying to give any ideas0.95
00:33:26.380i'm trying to say like this is a big fucking deal that no one's paying attention to and oh yeah and0.87
00:33:32.020and then everyone another train derailment happened just recently and then whenever two0.94
00:33:38.900things happen back to back everyone's like well what could this mean and then you know people
00:33:44.600trying to throw the people trying to throw water on the conspiracy theories end up revealing a
00:33:51.460worst conspiracy so they'll say you know oh what do you think is happening it's conspiracy there's0.98
00:33:57.900over a thousand train derailments a year that's what they said i'm like how the fuck are there0.97
00:34:04.380a thousand huge train derailments a year that's that's a worse conspiracy that's a conspiracy0.92
00:34:09.820of ignorance and neglect well that's all the other thing that i always find interesting people
00:34:14.780like did you know like the other one that happened a lot recently is talking about the number of food
00:34:19.020processing plants that burn down or the number of chicken places that burn down. And I hear that
00:34:24.700all the time. It's like, come on, X number of these burn down every year. Recent fires at food
00:34:30.180processing plants across the U.S. have several people speculating online if something else is
00:34:34.860behind them. This tweet notes a, quote, odd coincidence that, quote, 18 U.S. food processing
00:34:41.540facilities burned down in the last six months. The question that we're looking at today are people
00:34:48.080setting food processing plants on fire intentionally in order to create a food
00:34:52.980shortage? Let's verify. On its website, the USDA says there are currently no food shortages or
00:34:59.780widespread disruptions of the food supply in the country. So we can verify that no,
00:35:04.840people are not setting food processing plants on fire intentionally in order to create a food
00:35:10.160shortage. It's like, well, first of all, I know that statistic was pulled straight from your ass1.00
00:35:16.400because I know broadly what the growth of the economy looked like over the past 100 years,0.97
00:35:21.100which means that number can't be balanced over time.
00:35:24.620So if there was a yearly statistic, it would only be important in the context of other yearly statistics over time.0.97
00:35:31.220So this is like classic statistics being used for bullshit.0.95
00:35:34.480I'm not saying that those people are like bad actors.0.97
00:35:38.020I just think that it's kind of careless to just say, hey, did you know that this year,
00:35:41.340like this derailment is not suspicious because this year there were already 1,700 derailments.
00:35:46.400Okay. So maybe the conspiracy is much broader than what we had initially thought, right? Because yeah, 1700 derailments. I mean, there, that's a, that's a problem. Am I insane for saying that's a big fucking problem where it's like, Hey, don't worry about it. 25 or 30 of our, uh, of our, uh, our food processing plants burn down every year. Really? How many of these things do we have?
00:36:10.380like I know in our, I'm just comparing them to homes, right? How many homes in a given,
00:36:14.880like in my region, we haven't had a home burned down this, this in all of 2022, I think maybe
00:36:20.400one home burned down. And we only have one food packing plant in the whole region. So like you
00:36:25.780have 50,000 homes and one food packing plant. If even a hundred homes burnt down, that's a drop in
00:36:32.520the bucket. If one food processing plant burns down, that's horribly damaging. So to say that
00:36:38.200like oh well you know what happens 30 40 50 these burn every year no wait what no it's also it's not
00:36:45.720easy to burn an entire building down that's another thing that i want to get that's the
00:36:50.140other thing yeah yeah unless it's full of like fertilizer or something but like with food packing
00:36:55.320plants i'm not saying it's hard to burn them down compared to other places but it's not like it's
00:37:00.360not like a timber frame home that if somebody's asleep and it catches fire and they don't have
00:37:05.400an alarm or something like it could it could be gone within a few hours you know or be unusable
00:37:10.160within a few hours but like a food packing plant that's wild man these things they're like 10,000
00:37:16.62020 30,000 square feet if you catch fire in one section and they have like there's an office
00:37:23.060area and there's a packing area like according to food standard regulations right you have to
00:37:27.460have all of these in different like bulk headed zones they have to have like air locks between
00:37:31.720them to prevent cross-contamination so like that would actually make it harder for fire to spread
00:37:36.720at a glance so and you're telling me that like what it just burned the whole thing either burned
00:37:40.960up in a couple of hours or it took two days to burn and they just didn't put it out like come on
00:37:46.020yeah like i'm i have to at some point i have to push back on this i'm not i'm not saying i just
00:37:50.800believe everything i hear on the internet but also your your your response has to be a little
00:37:56.320bit better than that i don't know yeah and also like that's kind of what i'm trying to weigh here
00:38:00.440because this is a developing story but you know it seems to me that there's new information
00:38:05.840emerging about the nature of these chemicals because like i don't try this is why i was
00:38:11.240looking at what the chemists were saying and i'm like it's not like you got the entire shipping
00:38:15.200manifest it's not like you like these are very complicated situations with different chemicals
00:38:21.380interacting with the soil and shit like that i'm like okay i'm sorry but anytime i see a video of0.97
00:38:26.980like just hundreds of dead fish floating on the water and a deer with its face on fire like you're0.81
00:38:33.900not going to tell me it's like oh no that's nothing that like no and then also like you're
00:38:38.180hearing new information trickle in about uh you know i was looking at a post here saying like oh
00:38:44.700the way the chemicals look in this water means it's not really uh vinyl chloride which is what
00:38:50.260they said it was it's like no it must be mixing with something else which and then we come back
00:38:55.140to your point which is why is this being shuttered so much why are journalists getting kicked out of0.94
00:39:01.080town hall meetings why are people getting arrested like what the fuck is going that's a strange thing0.79
00:39:07.840to do um i'm not sure however that there's a race angle to this because i'd heard some people0.99
00:39:15.740floating that idea that oh if this were a black town it wouldn't because it uh palestine is
00:39:23.260majority white there's a joke in there somewhere but um the majority is like 94 white and the
00:39:30.460people are saying oh if they weren't white if it was a black or hispanic town they would have
00:39:33.900gotten fema support let's start with the governor just this morning dewine tweeted that his
00:39:39.420administration has been in touch with fema to talk about the possibility of the state receiving
00:39:44.680federal support stating in part quote but fema continues to advise that ohio is not eligible
00:39:51.320for assistance at this time now we did a deep dive into fema's website and here's what we found
00:39:57.160now we did a deep dive into fema's website and here's what we found i don't know about that
00:40:06.520because flint michigan also had polluted water and flint michigan has had polluted water forever
00:40:12.500that's a majority black town and when a city rather and then when when that news emerged
00:40:18.860everyone was not laughing but pointing to it say oh that's what you get when you have a city run by1.00
00:40:24.720black people it's carelessness with infrastructure it's lack of planning and like well then the1.00
00:40:29.620exact same thing would apply here this seems to be a an incident let's call it that created by0.99
00:40:37.280i guess lazy white politicians governors i don't know how the rail lines fit in with all that like0.97
00:40:46.780that might be a federal thing i don't know how the rail line ownership shit works but i i think0.99
00:40:52.220like if we're talking negligence i don't think you can realistically make a claim that this is like0.80
00:40:57.720you imagine if the races were reversed like it's not that i don't know what do you think yeah
00:41:02.420well i mean just just to touch on the rail lines for a second without knowing exactly how these
00:41:09.540rail lines work we just established at the beginning that you had a rail union and a rail
00:41:15.020company which are both private technically technically private um but they're not completely
00:41:20.080private because when they have a dispute the government steps in and plays kingmaker and just
00:41:25.100decide who they decide who wins right so i mean they're now they're you could argue that they're
00:41:31.480not private anymore they're semi-public because they're the government is the one deciding so i
00:41:35.480blame the government i think what should have happened is the rail lines should have shut down
00:41:39.500and a lot of people's packages and goods would not have been delivered and also palestine ohio would0.96
00:41:44.560not be a fucking crater so that's one thing as for the race i think it's great to always look0.62
00:41:50.660at it as a facet of an event it seems pretty obvious that it's you can't really tie it either0.97
00:41:57.160way to race in this case doesn't mean it was wrong to look at it but i think anybody trying to drum
00:42:02.220that up is maybe needs to re-examine their motivations a bit like i don't think with the
00:42:06.800race thing is so prevalent you don't need to fabricate examples of anti-white sentiment to
00:42:13.660find way more than you need so you just do yourself a disservice by by making it up in
00:42:19.760cases where it's pretty obvious like i'm glad to be proven wrong but there's so much else that's
00:42:24.460going on here that seems to be so much more important and and and are really driving factors
00:42:29.700that have nothing to do with race that you want to you want to shoehorn race in there even if
00:42:34.080there was maybe something like somebody was joking about like the number of like upper management0.53
00:42:38.260employees that are black so it's like kind of black and competence led to this is like yeah
00:42:42.320maybe i don't know maybe i would i wouldn't say no to that but at the same time um there's like0.96
00:42:49.220it's more than just a couple of i don't want to i never want to get into setting the precedent of
00:42:53.920this huge national rail line a mistake that was made at the federal level about their management
00:42:58.800and you're going to blame like the regional comptroller for what happened like i don't0.95
00:43:04.340care what race they are it's not the fucking regional comptroller's fault so yeah yeah so i0.95
00:43:10.480I guess it's still an ongoing story,0.98
01:15:29.640i'll give you sort of like the one sentence review of it it's not a good movie but i think
01:15:42.220everyone should see it that sounds counterintuitive right it's like i i did not really enjoy watching
01:15:50.820it it was in fact very boring but um and i'll tell you what it's about so it's a movie it's
01:15:58.880experimental in the sense that there's certain experimental things that really really bothered me
01:16:03.560one that it just had this sort of old film grain overlay over it like it's shot on 38 millimeter
01:16:11.780film and it's got the crackle it's like an old film and i know for a fact it wasn't shot on old
01:16:17.960film it was shot on a digital camera perhaps even an iphone if you told me it was an iphone i would
01:16:25.100not be surprised um and there's certain like camera shots where the camera's panning and it's0.99
01:16:30.380panning in such a way where i'm like that's it's too smooth you just shot this on your fucking0.92
01:16:34.620phone or something like that and so all that pop and crackle and hiss is it's just annoying it's0.98
01:16:40.700just you literally you can buy an overlay like that on fucking any of these sites and just slap0.75
01:16:46.800it on and that's what it is so that annoyed me on the other hand the audio editing is really really0.64
01:16:53.560good and so it's like he's balancing these weird things so and it looks like it was shot during
01:16:59.020covid as well so and we're talking this movie what it's about i should say that first why wouldn't
01:17:05.640you so it's a movie about these two children these two toddlers i don't know how old they are but
01:17:10.980maybe they're like five or six and they're in this house a nice house suburban house and they're just
01:17:16.460home alone they don't know where their parents are it's like the middle of the night you don't
01:17:20.360really know what time it is but they're home alone it's dark and their brother and sisters they're
01:17:24.480like where's mom where's dad you know let's let's go sleep in the living room watching old cartoons
01:17:30.100and stuff and then weird things start to happen um they hear voices the first thing they notice
01:17:36.320is that the windows disappear there's no more windows in their house anymore the door's gone
01:17:40.760as well weird shit's happening but they're kids too and what i liked about the premise was
01:17:46.540i don't see a lot of movies starring kids of that age like really really little kids like toddlers
01:17:53.620and having them talk and seeing how they react to things i thought that was really cool so you
01:18:00.140might have a movie like it or something but the kids and it are already in like tween area you
01:18:04.800know what i mean um there are or there's all kinds of movies with teenagers and tweens and stuff but
01:18:09.100like really really small kids i'm like that's that's cool like what's that protagonist do right
01:18:14.740um and then so it turns out that there's some kind of entity in the house but the trick is
01:18:21.200you don't know really what it is it doesn't have a satisfying conclusion really but
01:18:25.140what's interesting is the film opens up with like you hear the father on the phone and like
01:18:32.780occasionally there's subtitles in it because you have to really listen to hear what they're saying
01:18:38.860most of the time and that's kind of annoying but it's it's a not aesthetic choice but it's a
01:18:44.660creative choice i'm like okay whatever but the father is on the phone talking about the son
01:18:51.180who'd apparently like fallen and hit his head and he's been sleepwalking right so there is a
01:18:58.160possibility that this entire movie is like a sleepwalking delusion that the kid has
01:19:03.120or that he's in some kind of coma and i'll explain that in a bit but so like it sets you up with0.76
01:19:09.600like maybe this isn't real then okay whatever um but then i can still see fucking raver typing here0.78
01:19:16.240or maybe from a youngian standpoint it is the most real thing hmm you just no i reject your0.88
01:19:25.680hmm you're not allowed to contemplate anymore i don't know raver is typing0.86
01:19:31.260can this guy shut shut up like why can't you know what i hate guys who who post like five0.92
01:19:38.260things in a row especially if it's sent you do this too by the way i'm putting you on notice0.98
01:19:43.160like just writing five little like one word things that make one sentence
01:19:50.840hey return carriage hey guys return carriage how you guys doing return carriage it's 5 a.m0.93
01:19:57.680he's still fucking going look at this this dope oh yeah tell me about john tory raver0.98
01:20:03.840send me 17 messages i hope he's listening to this i hope he crashes his bike in a telephone booth1.00
01:20:09.960hope you're listening raver i hope you get molested today0.99
01:20:16.500all right skin of a rink it's hard to change gears back to this movie0.99
01:20:22.940but it's really fucked up like i i'd recommend people see it because it's really fucking weird0.91
01:20:28.440but it creates it has an aura it has a mood and a tone and i find myself thinking back to it0.96
01:20:34.720because there's nothing else like it there's no other movie that's like this because even the
01:20:39.700types of movies that i like horror movies uh that i like have a certain sort of like a24
01:20:45.680type style and it's become a trope like you see the trailer and like all of them have this
01:20:52.560fucking like violin sound they use in the trailers like like really harsh off-putting0.98
01:20:59.380like it's the same fucking soundtrack it's like the same fucking psychological horror movie and0.99
01:21:05.460like i realized like this is just a meme now it's a meme type of movie they've memed being weird0.97
01:21:11.920and i don't know how i feel about that but that's what i'm saying this is the only genuinely weird
01:21:17.660movie i think i've seen in a long while that wasn't using as just like a cheap aesthetic0.93
01:21:22.480or some shit um and then but the problem is that as you're watching it it's really fucking boring0.95
01:21:29.100it's actually and the thing that bugs me it's like it's starring these kids0.97
01:21:34.360well i'll tell you what the first thing about the movie that kind of threw me off was like
01:21:38.480during the opening credits it says you know in memory of josh one of the kids in the movie
01:21:46.280like in loving memory of this is a tribute to him so i'm looking at that i'm thinking
01:21:51.060oh is this like a found footage movie where it's a movie within a movie and they're pretending that
01:21:57.740this kid in the movie really disappeared and but then under closer inspection it turns out that
01:22:03.120this it's weirder than that because i think the kid in this movie just died of natural somehow
01:22:09.240like a year before the movie was released because the kid that the in the movie it said no died in
01:22:15.7002021 this movie came out in 2022 so this kid shot this movie and died immediately after
01:22:22.840and they still released it like that's just odd to me is that even true did you look it up maybe
01:22:29.360that's just part of the marketing well it's it i don't know because it listed like the kids it
01:22:33.160wasn't the kid's name in the movie it was like the actor's name yeah but it's filmed as um
01:22:39.680that's fucking weird because it's not like the kids the actor's name was josh the kid's name
01:22:46.060in the movie was kevin so i'm like but that's what i went into this the first thing i'm like0.97
01:22:50.960okay is this a trippy like reverse bluff like what is this but it's if it is what i think it is
01:22:57.320it's just that this this movie the kid in this movie died right after filming it and then it
01:23:02.660seems kind of morbid to release it and then it's like we worked with his family it was almost like
01:23:07.820oh no don't worry his parents are okay with it that's a disclaimer before the movie starts i'm
01:23:12.540like that's well look i mean if you spent like many people for like a year and five hundred
01:23:19.260thousand dollars producing a film like this it would be hard to leave it all on the floor just
01:23:24.280because the kid died i mean i i get i know it does seem a little callous but at the same time
01:23:29.240like what are we all going to lose our jobs over it as well like why are you going to expand the
01:23:34.200tragedy so i don't know it might be i would be more inclined to leave it on the cutting room floor
01:23:41.640since the movie cost 1700 to make what are you serious no i'm just saying it looks it looks like
01:23:50.280it's just some guy it's just some guy's house like the thing that works about the movie is that
01:23:54.900there's two kids and they're barely in it this is the thing that most of the movie is like shots of
01:24:01.680walls and shots of windows and shots where like no people are in it and you hear them talking
01:24:07.220off screen and part of me is thinking okay is this a covid thing but like the human maybe it's
01:24:15.880on purpose but i think it's bad because like the human mind is designed or evolved or whatever to
01:24:22.160like it to fixate on human faces human bodies um so if you if you're watching a movie and no people
01:24:30.720are in it your mind immediately begins to wander like it's set up and this is a true in advertising
01:24:36.020as well that we know that any advertisement that has a human being just works you need people you
01:24:42.880can't just have the object or the product or just something that looks cool you need to have people0.99
01:24:48.160and so i found it a bit of a chore to watch this movie because you're staring at boring shit0.96
01:24:54.120for like you're staring at nothing like a suburb a blank suburban wall for like five minutes and0.97
01:25:01.800then i'm like i whatever and again so this is me saying it's not fun to watch but still saying
01:25:06.720you got to give it a shot because the end of the movie it's weird he actually does these certain
01:25:11.200these shots and these scenes where he lets you know he knows how to make a movie like there's
01:25:17.680there's some minor special effects or some some effects he's using that are really really good
01:25:23.040right at the end it's really creepy and really crazy and it gets weird um but then like everything
01:25:30.500up until that point it's it's almost just trying to torture me i guess um but yeah there's this
01:25:37.260entity in there in the house that's like luring the kids around and it has like supreme power
01:25:44.000over that house like there's at one point where the kid picks up the phone and dials 911 he's
01:25:49.340talking to like the operator on the other line and then that phone turns into like his child's phone
01:25:57.740and then the entity says he did that he's like i can do whatever i want like little and it's like
01:26:03.400subtitle because it's like this weird distant muffled voice and he's like he's like you know
01:26:09.400come upstairs and like the daughter the daughter goes upstairs and she like finds the mother and
01:26:15.000father like sitting on the bed facing away and she's talking to them but then they disappear
01:26:18.960it's really creepy like it's really it's slow there's no music there's no background music
01:26:24.800everything's muffled you gotta like it's a movie watch you gotta like lean in to pay attention to
01:26:30.560it but again like as much as the negative is there there's nothing else like it and that
01:26:37.460has some kind of currency with me i think it has to right like at least compared to all these other
01:26:44.140movies that are true because i looked at this thing i'm like oh is this another found footage
01:26:48.760movie like a paranormal activity i'm like no this it's something new and i'm like that's got that
01:26:55.660there's something to that anyway and then i heard the name you know what at first when i heard the
01:27:01.300name i thought it was a meme movie like a photoshop like what was that show like skid
01:27:06.820i'm a rinky dinky dink skid i'm a rinky dink yeah it's like sharon lois and bram or or uh or what's
01:27:13.000it ravi the child's music guy yeah my kids sing that all the time i sang that song as a kid so
01:27:17.680so i thought like oh is this like oh we're gonna do barney but dark and it's a mean thing then i
01:27:22.380figured out it was real and then but then at the same time you're like it almost it has like a
01:27:28.1201970s aesthetic like when you see the title card it's like a almost like a roman polanski like old
01:27:34.960type thing i'm like but i don't know you didn't need to do that it's almost hacked to do like a
01:27:41.5601970s just overlay you know what i mean yeah is it because the film takes place like 19950.93
01:27:48.460right so it's like i you didn't make you just you just made it look like the 70s for no fucking
01:27:55.600reason and like okay whatever like i but it's it's got highs and it's got lows so i don't know0.77
01:28:03.660if you're looking for something to watch i'd give it a shot just if you need to come yell at me and
01:28:08.160hate on me you can do that that's fine i can take it but you know something i don't watch
01:28:15.460horror movies i think i've actually cemented this now as an adult that i've tried i never
01:28:21.740i never watched them that much as a kid and then now i've tried to go back even recently a bit
01:28:26.960because like you talk about it a lot and i just i'm the sort of person where if it's a good horror
01:28:32.640movie like that gets under your skin it affects me in a way that's worse than drugs and i i view
01:28:38.480it like a drug like i don't need to do that to myself i'm gonna have a bad day tomorrow if i
01:28:43.080watch this and i can't i don't have control over that but what i can control is whether or not i
01:28:47.760watch it so if i like that's actually one i'm not gonna watch this movie because i i can see that
01:28:52.980this is something that will get under my skin and i'm not i'll watch like dumb horror that's like
01:28:58.300very violent and gory but stuff that like gets under your skin on like uh like uh very like an
01:29:05.560existential or like a kind of a personal level i don't was there's another one there's this movie
01:29:11.380that came out in like 2014 with scarlett johansson i think it's actually it's you know that's what
01:29:16.700i'm thinking of it's called under your skin under the skin yeah yeah where she's an alien and she's
01:29:20.620like picking up guys on the side of the road i watched it seemed interesting and i liked the
01:29:24.240way it was directed but i watched the first 20 minutes of it and i just turned it off because
01:29:27.600like i can't i can't do this like the scene where the parents the the dog goes out in the water and
01:29:35.280the mom goes to save the dog and starts to drown so the dad goes out to save the mom and they all
01:29:41.860just drown and well no the the dog and the mother die the dad barely makes it back alive and then
01:29:48.420she walks up she looks at the toddler who can't even walk sitting on the beach and she looks at
01:29:54.000the father drowning and she kills the father by smashing his head with a walk rock and walks away
01:29:58.300and it's like that is one of the most savage and callous things i've ever seen i want to erase that
01:30:03.060from my memory i want to go do something else i don't want to watch this anymore not interested
01:30:07.380that was that was a weird scene i remember i know exactly the one you're talking about
01:30:11.980that is a pretty dark movie uh is yeah again scarlett johansson doing the only role that
01:30:19.720she can play which is either a soulless machine or a soulless alien they haven't figured out that0.98
01:30:25.500she's not a good actor yet what are her best roles that she's known for she plays fucked up0.89
01:30:31.280ai or something yeah no but that's the thing it's a strange thing to want to subject yourself to0.93
01:30:38.200that's a very normal thing to want to do i don't know why i do it i think i i try and take the bad
01:30:44.440with the good the only reason i watch these things is because they deal in ideas that i find
01:30:50.580interesting i don't get anywhere else and i just got to kind of deal with like the gore and things
01:30:55.940like that because it's like the only place you can find anything to do with ghosts because ghosts
01:31:01.460are generally interesting aliens are interesting i'll watch an alien movie where the alien isn't0.98
01:31:07.140just trying to you know chew you out through your dick or something but there's not a lot of0.94
01:31:11.560middle ground there's only two types of alien movies where the alien is a monster or something0.99
01:31:16.120like star man or ai where it's like a a cuddly hippie thing there's no in between not these days
01:31:24.260anyway like i don't know what like star trek would be like that's why people still obsess0.71
01:31:28.180about star trek it's the only fucking thing that's there that offers like what if there's0.98
01:31:32.480aliens and it's it's it's not either just brutality or hippie shit you know but it's0.98
01:31:41.380the only thing i can do to find any of these stories like anything with ghosts i gotta go0.98
01:31:45.140to horror anything to do with like mind bending paranormal things i got it's just like pulp i
01:31:51.600think dave martell was saying this the other day he was like you know there's only two types of
01:31:55.560acceptable sci-fi things it's either gotta be like action you know you're finding romance on mars or
01:32:01.660it's gotta be fucking mind bending i like mind bending stuff it just turns out i have to have0.91
01:32:06.760like really depressing shit along with it i guess right i wish i didn't someone you know there's no0.98
01:32:15.280reason skid and rig had to have a bad ending could have had a happy ending or just a weird ending0.97
01:32:20.260maybe it turns out the kid is is the goat the entity that is unnamed you know
01:32:25.120huh but it's good don't don't get into it now especially when you have kids because like
01:32:33.140you know any by the way you know horror movies in the 80s and and 70s they used to kill kids a
01:32:39.540lot more too i don't know if you remember that oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and i think no gold barred
01:32:44.600back then no one no one liked that so they kind of stopped doing it but you know as a parent i
01:32:49.400said this at work to like a bunch of people even like the saw movies and things like that i'm like
01:32:55.220i don't need it i don't need it i don't need to see someone's face ground up under a car tire
01:33:01.840i don't need to see someone ripped in half and then say oh look how realistic the kidneys look
01:33:07.260i don't need it that was not a response to a market demand they did not focus test this
01:33:14.920and and get the response like well if only the kidneys were more realistic we might have improved
01:33:20.360sales like that there's something else going on there yeah i mean there's probably i bet if we
01:33:27.000wanted to get all theory selling about it we could be talking about how this is people
01:33:32.640just descent this is the end result of desensitization this is you know p you know we
01:33:38.880want to see certain because these movies also populate themselves with social archetypes and
01:33:43.840we're just watching these social archetypes get punished and you know you watch brutality but
01:33:49.440they're against an acceptable enemy so you like it which that always seemed very mean-spirited
01:33:56.940to me and and teaching that and celebrating that mean-spiritedness i thought you know that that's0.66
01:34:02.240kind of fucked up for for people to do like seeing the bad guys like you know like the idea of like0.98
01:34:07.600oh yeah i hate you now you're gonna get raped in prison haha i'm like you know you're just laughing0.99
01:34:12.460about a guy getting raped is kind of weird it's an odd thing for us to just all do at the same0.99
01:34:17.740time like it's a it's a thought that it seems to occur in a lot of people's minds just i don't know
01:34:22.780that seems like a thing that was implanted there at some point
01:34:25.320the the brutality of the brutality of women seeing the the acceptable archetype get tortured
01:34:35.680and paying money to see it i don't know why it turned out women there i'm sorry ladies
01:34:40.620um speaking of torturing women uh i there's this book i wanted to uh talk about we're kind of
01:34:51.140getting into like the history part of some things i want to talk about and i don't know how long
01:34:56.280we're gonna spend on on this particular one but um it's this book that i found really really good
01:35:01.140it's called the true history of the american revolution by sydney george fisher so this is
01:35:08.940the book obviously about the american revolution um and there's tons and tons of books on the
01:35:12.820american revolution and there's a lot of experts on the american revolution especially in our scene
01:35:17.080and there's a lot to tell so i'm not going to go too deep into like specific battles
01:35:23.760or specific characters it's more giving you the the broad strokes of the american revolution
01:35:29.080and a few things that i found very interesting about it and this book what i found about this
01:35:34.060book was it's very even-handed it tried to give a more realistic assessment of not only what
01:35:42.200occurred during the american revolution but the events and the individuals who kind of helped
01:35:48.760inspire it so i'm just going to read the back here just to give you an idea it says the purpose of
01:35:55.240this history of the revolution is to use the original authorities rather than rather more
01:36:01.940frankly than has been practiced with our historians they appear to have thought inadvisable
01:36:07.020to admit from their narratives a great deal which to me seems essential to a true picture
01:36:13.000i cannot feel satisfied with any description of the revolution which treats the desire for
01:36:18.660independence as a sudden thought and not a long growth and development or which assumes that0.94
01:36:25.120every detail of the conduct of the british government was absurdly stupid even from its0.89
01:36:30.160own point of view so what he's saying is he wrote this book in a way to challenge at that time this0.89
01:36:36.340was written in 1910 this is a pretty old book but he was challenging the dominant narratives of the
01:36:43.000American Revolution at the time and the the dominant narratives were largely mythologized
01:36:48.760I don't mean mythologized in either a good or bad way but we mentioned this the last episode
01:36:54.040what I referenced this book, which is that when you look at these, when we talk about, you know,
01:37:01.280that history is written by the victors, that is true. The victors tend to mythologize their own
01:37:06.860victories. And I'm not saying that's bad. I think that's what should happen. But sometimes I think
01:37:11.900the mythologization actually makes it seem more miraculous than it actually was, which makes it
01:37:17.980more unreachable. So if you listen to what the dominant narrative of the American Revolution was,
01:37:24.040It was that, you know, the Great Britain was so bad that one day the revolution sparked up and the soul of every American united in one fist that pushed back.
01:37:39.760Most revolutions like to tell a story that they were spontaneous revolutions.
01:37:43.940And that includes the Soviet Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution.
01:37:46.840That also includes the very soft revolution of the civil rights movement in the U.S.
01:37:52.100It's like the civil rights movement in America loves telling the story that it was just these everyday heroes and these kind of spontaneous events that people kind of gathered around.
01:38:02.340No, most of these events were engineered, like Rosa Parks was engineered.
01:38:07.740Even we've talked about in The Rise of Christianity by Rodney Stark, we talked about many, many episodes ago, but he was charting the growth of Christianity.
01:38:18.260And if you listen to the dominant narrative put forward by most Christians, they would make it sound like, you know, Jesus showed up and then everyone heard the good news and there was mass baptisms and everyone kind of woke up and there was a grand awakening.
01:38:33.220That's not what happened. And throughout the book, we charted the growth of Christianity through the census conducted by Rome.
01:38:41.660Rome was probably the best example. And we could see Christianity kind of grow organically over time.
01:38:46.760it grew fast and it grew far and it had a lot of powerful adherence to it but the the real story
01:38:54.480to me that i like the real story because it makes these huge events seem achievable you know because
01:39:01.140if you lay every you know tectonic shift in civilization if you just say it was a miracle
01:39:07.900then people are going to say well i can't do anything because it's only miracles that change
01:39:12.040history it's not it's usually a group of driven individuals and it's a long hard slog to get
01:39:20.400there but this is how it's done and that was the case of the american revolution and what this book
01:39:24.740was was trying to outline and what i found most interesting because as the book goes on
01:39:30.220it talks a lot about the famous battles and the famous things people are familiar with
01:39:35.500john adams and everything but i found most fascinating the beginnings of the book
01:39:40.540the beginnings of and that's not just me secretly saying i only read the beginning of the book i
01:39:47.160read the whole book i just found the beginning the most interesting because it was setting the
01:39:51.360stage for the american revolution and the american war of independence that whole block of time where
01:39:57.840it was like the activity of the revolutionaries who were agitating for independence and and not
01:40:04.360only that but also addressing how because again with the american side of it they wanted to make
01:40:10.840it seem like most of america was revolutionaries and the british loyalists were a relatively small
01:40:17.260group that's not the case at all there was tons of loyalists and not just canada but there was it
01:40:22.720was way more contentious it was way more divided there was and then not only that there was like0.98
01:40:28.080what happens in every single revolution we've talked about this before who's got the fucking0.55
01:40:31.920game tape it's that when a revolution occurs you got people strongly for it strongly against it0.84
01:40:38.660most people are in the middle not sure what to do they don't actively take a side right they kind of
01:40:44.080wait and see and that's the story this book is trying to tell us like let's tell the story of
01:40:49.120what it's like to the this small group of revolutionaries and samuel adams trying to like
01:40:55.480agitate for people to get on board with this while even those within the american establishment who
01:41:02.120wanted independence were saying well let's not go too crazy you know and all the that the narrative
01:41:07.220of this book it's kind of pathetic when you see it because all throughout the book and we'll get
01:41:12.300into this it's like the british empire trying to appease america the british empire like okay you
01:41:19.720want independence i get it but okay let's let's just stay a thing you can you can be your own0.90
01:41:24.940thing but let's just organize like no fuck you it was a story of uh the narrative is that britain0.93
01:41:31.320was actually too nice on america and that's the lesson that britain learned after the american0.90
01:41:36.160revolution because the book makes the claim it's like you know after britain lost america they
01:41:41.680really cracked down on the rest of their colonies like they really didn't want another america to
01:41:47.140happen so in south africa and these other places you saw britain take a stronger hold because they
01:41:52.780saw this is what happens when we're nice this is what happens when we give them a little too much
01:41:58.460and they have time to kind of gather their forces yeah because there's a central narrative in the
01:42:03.660book that if britain took the american rebellion more seriously early on they could have crushed
01:42:09.180it they could have crushed the american revolution and and all these militia men and minutemen way
01:42:43.920but i'm not trying to disparage america i'm saying that's what you need to win0.74
01:42:48.680like america yeah they were bullies they were bullying britain they were blowing them up and
01:42:53.500shooting them and saying i want nothing to do with you i don't care how nice you're gonna be0.99
01:42:58.540you can give us free money we want a clean break 100 and that's we're drawing a fucking line in0.99
01:43:04.760the sand like you needed to be unreasonable there would be no america if they weren't being0.94
01:43:09.300unreasonable and to me that's an argument for being unreasonable politically like that's what
01:43:15.140you need to do every step of the way you need to be a bully and if you see your enemy backing down0.99
01:43:19.740that's when you kick them in the fucking teeth which is what america was trying to do um so0.99
01:43:26.540just to kind of set the stage i'll go through the boring history here but i'll go through because i1.00
01:43:31.640find all this stuff very interesting when a lot of the times when war comes down to like trade
01:43:36.240roots and things like that so he makes the claim that the cause of the american revolution
01:43:41.220it was britain feeling pressure from france and canada and allowing their very liberal colonies
01:43:48.240to kind of persist massachusetts was massachusetts was the first example like there were a few states
01:43:54.500that were agitating for independence more than the others and when we talked about that book
01:43:59.280american nations you kind of saw the makeup of america at that time it was still being formed
01:44:04.580there was still mostly unsettled there's still a lot of conflicting ideas about what america should
01:44:10.080be um and because and they're being treated with kid gloves because the first thing that happened
01:44:17.420was the states rebelled by electing their own governors which they weren't supposed to do
01:44:23.520you're not supposed to elect your own governors and they had a rule like the governors can't be0.98
01:44:29.060british they basically said we're elected or they elected their own fuck you governors0.97
01:44:34.540and then britain tolerated that they said that was permitted at first0.97
01:44:38.580um and also they said even the the crown appointed judges because the the britain will still appoint
01:44:45.680judges like we control that but it's like through some tricky engineering they made so that those
01:44:52.260judges were um beholden to the legislator so it's like yeah you can have your judges but we're we0.99
01:44:58.760found a legal way to make ourselves in charge and we can tell the judges to go fuck themselves0.91
01:45:02.800if we want to and for a long time britain allowed that they said okay well and but every every little0.98
01:45:10.120every degree they went in this direction britain allowed it until they couldn't stop and that's
01:45:16.220kind of the story we're going at here um so really at this point like britain america was under
01:45:22.380britain's tax model which was a model that was familiar to britain which was like a feudal tax
01:45:27.820model and what that means is it's voluntary so you can choose if you're kind of a feudal lord
01:45:33.780you can choose to pay tax you choose how much tax you pay but but um what was happening was
01:45:39.020britain was trying to increase the tax uh they were trying to increase the tax because america
01:45:43.740just wasn't paying taxes which is funny like it's a very american thing to do it's like they're
01:45:51.340coming at it very britishly like they're saying you know british they're very passive aggressive0.99
01:45:57.260and they're very as a dignity and honor and america's just like fuck you i'm just not going0.99
01:46:01.780to pay checks in the mail and then eventually brent said okay well you need to pay something0.97
01:46:07.400please like america was the first country that said what if we just don't pay them taxes let's
01:46:14.700see what happens and then brent had a that they really just wanted something from the taxes because
01:46:21.340they were trying to uh fund wars they're in force of conquest and uh um they said that like the
01:46:28.040british finally getting control of canada was uh kind of what made them go to odds later on but um
01:46:34.420another thing that was pushing america towards independence was there was navigation laws that
01:46:41.260because britain owned the waves so britain could pretty much make it so no other country was allowed
01:46:46.760to trade with america it was only britain that was allowed to trade with america and that was
01:46:51.300a primary cause of the revolt um because even though they weren't supposed to trade with other
01:46:57.760people they were um which is another cool american thing so it was virginia that was already trading
01:47:05.460secretly with holland and holland was britain's rival they hated holland because holland was
01:47:10.240making another play for global dominance like the only other uh you know empire that could
01:47:16.660control the waves or control trade at that level was holland so again america is doing like a0.98
01:47:23.660fuck you thing we're just gonna we're gonna break these rules um and and the even these laws were0.98
01:47:31.300pretty liberal by american standards and america just ignore them anyway um and then not only that0.99
01:47:37.820that britain was having a problem with pirates american pirates so not only was america breaking
01:47:44.960the trade rules they were just openly robbing the british um and then there's a line here
01:47:51.340that said um pirates and smugglers were so popular that they had to be tried in admiralty
01:47:58.320court they had to be tried in british court because no american would ever convict a smuggler0.98
01:48:03.220they just couldn't do it they just had to get their own fucking guys because0.96
01:48:09.880jury of their peers gonna say yeah robbing the british is awesome and based and everyone should0.98
01:48:14.960do it and then so what happens after that so already you can see the breakdown then what
01:48:21.900happens after that is you start seeing uh these riots in america and the riots are caused by
01:48:27.460britain trying to get more creative with the taxes so what they started doing is imposing
01:48:32.600sugar taxes and stamp taxes so it's like we're not going to get you're not going to pay us but
01:48:38.280we're going to have these extra taxes on things you use a lot so we're going to increase the tax0.81
01:48:42.980on stamps what does that cause immediate riots and i'm talking fucking old time riots right like0.98
01:48:50.580we have rights now these these are nothing riots these are just black people giving you know free0.98
01:48:56.820reign of the city i'm talking riots were like you know there's like 20 000 dead or something like0.83
01:49:02.240that these are real riots um so they impose these taxes and here's the funny thing so they impose
01:49:08.260the sugar tax and the stamp tax riots happen britain repeals the taxes so they say we're
01:49:16.120that's them saying we're sorry we'll take taxes away big mistake big like right like immediately
01:49:23.140you're gonna say oh my they're weak we got the worst thing you could do blood in the water now
01:49:28.240yeah we just learned that riots work so um and so they said this around this time that the east
01:49:35.980india company allied with britain to stop the piracy of tea um which was unable to be taxed
01:49:41.980because routinely smuggled um they tried to trick america again by like we'll sell you all your tea
01:49:50.500but then america just stopped buying tea like they were just not having whatever britain was
01:49:57.280trying to do to get any money whatsoever it was like a protest like oh you're gonna tax this one
01:50:02.080thing we're not gonna buy that anymore oh you're taxing the thing we need we're just gonna start
01:50:06.040lighting fires okay like it was just every step of the way um and it's around this time that the
01:50:11.220patriots were agitating for the bill of rights and pushing for independence um and they were
01:50:16.480trying to keep they're doing this to keep away the east india company because that was a monopoly
01:50:20.080they hated monopolies um but you see like right around the time early early on you have people
01:50:25.760talking about independence there's murmurs of it but it's not a widely held thing yet no one really
01:50:31.100wants it people are saying well we do we really want independence is this something we want to
01:50:35.940fight and die for because it's going to be something that people have to die for probably
01:50:40.240and can we even exist without britain that's what they're asking at the time but there's some some
01:50:44.760passionate guys out there who are like no we need to go all the way and they're a minority early
01:50:50.000on but you start to see those people start to grow through protest through through leafleting
01:50:55.700and pan flitting and then hosting their their beer hall speeches and whatnot um it's funny he
01:51:02.720mentioned in the book that no taxation without representation was never actually a part of
01:51:07.300british law um uh you know you could have representation but he said that america hated
01:51:16.300this they didn't accept that seven million people could be uh represented by british parliament
01:51:23.060that was kind of what they were saying it was not like you can't have representation it's like we
01:51:26.820just don't like the idea of you having a foreign government which seems obvious to like americans
01:51:32.460now but like back then britain was still thinking like sort of like like a patrilineal no no
01:51:38.840patriarchally whatever you want to call it where it's like no no we'll take care you don't want
01:51:42.680to deal with this parliament business don't worry we'll take care of it they just didn't trust them
01:51:46.220um and it was samuel adams who wanted full independence and even as britain was walking
01:51:52.500back all of its taxes and all of its everything the leadership just kept hating the british
01:51:59.220despite these concessions um yeah so samuel adams is the figure and benedict arnold comes in later
01:52:07.000he's a famous kind of turncoat sort of guy but benedict arnold was kind of big earlier on
01:52:11.380the story of benedict arnold if we don't get to it um like he's famous for betraying the americans
01:52:17.200what's interesting there was like he was a revolutionary right up until the end and he
01:52:22.600kind of just hated what the revolution had become um he kind of turned his back on it because he
01:52:28.600thought it'd gone too far so because because the american revolution like it says it's about
01:52:33.680independence but it's actually about all these other things too um like for example i'll give
01:52:38.100you uh so in the book he cites and a lot of americans would agree with this even if they
01:52:44.060don't like it they agree with it that you know john locke and these writings on enlightenment
01:52:49.500era liberty and individual rights and human rights these were big at the time like they
01:52:54.520were obsessed with john locke they were obsessed with this this intellectual movement going on
01:52:59.400that we've heard about time and time again but what they found and and having you know liberty
01:53:04.140and freedom for all but routinely after um as the revolution was gaining steam
01:53:11.560and they were taking over these cities where there were british loyalists there they would
01:53:17.480always like beat up the loyalists they would always tar and feather them they would break0.97
01:53:23.120into their homes and shit so a lot of these revolutionaries started seeing that it's like0.97
01:53:26.740oh you're not actually not about liberty and freedom for all like you're just because you0.95
01:53:31.160have the we're winning and you're just subjugating these people who are also american citizens right
01:53:37.440so they saw the revolutionaries as kind of hypocrites so there's a lot of people
01:53:42.380who kind of start backing away but by that point it was too late and they realized there's something
01:53:48.260else but anyway that that stuff doesn't really get brought up that much but to me that's
01:53:52.200interesting that i think every single revolution is hypocritical but that does not seem to prevent
01:53:59.600it from being effective and that's just an interesting uh interested learning from history
01:54:05.840um yeah the the way they had it because britain was saying that they there's like two types of
01:54:13.040colonies that exist there's like a greek style colony and a roman style colony um a greek style
01:54:19.260colony is more like a seated self-sufficient community like which is what i think america
01:54:25.300wanted it to be like oh we are seeded by britain but we're its own thing whereas a roman um colony
01:54:31.560was more like you're taxed in a conquered imperium and so they made a good point where he said really
01:54:38.160this is a disagreement over what type of colony you want to be and perhaps america might have
01:54:43.720might have settled for a greek style system but you know we'll never know um
01:54:48.960and it's interesting he makes a point of the book where he says like the
01:54:54.200the reason this was happening was because americans saw themselves as a distinct people
01:54:58.900having developed over the centuries and he notes that um this was even true of loyalists who
01:55:04.700returned to britain so if you're a hardcore tory a british loyalist in america and you left the0.83
01:55:11.580fucking because the revolution you didn't want to be in america you wanted to go back home to britain0.98
01:55:15.640like you still were you had the stink of america on you like you had the wrong type of accent you0.99
01:55:22.260had all the you had an american-ness about you and there was all these stories about guys who
01:55:26.500went back to britain they were never really accepted there again like they were seen as a
01:55:30.340foreigner so i just thought i thought that was an interesting thing just to prove that they were
01:55:34.520kind of like a distinct uh people um yeah and the one thing was that um in britain because he does
01:55:43.100this cool thing in the book where he shows what they were saying in america and then what they
01:55:47.300were saying in britain at the same time so it kind of goes back and forth at various points
01:55:50.640And in England, the entire time they were, everyone in England was against independence, but they pointed to the example of Ireland. And they said, you know, Ireland in America actually had a similar population at the time. So the line that everyone had in England was, you know, we can put down Americans easy. Don't fret about them right now. We can, we can do to them what we did to the Irish was what they were saying.
01:56:16.420um and but they said we'll need to do that because uh you know maybe we need to kind of
01:56:23.580crack down on them because as it went on as this thing started to develop they feared they feared
01:56:29.300what actually came to pass which is that america would uh threaten all their other interests in0.98
01:56:35.040the americas so people are wondering why do you give a shit about america at all it's like well0.90
01:56:41.100because what they really care about was the access to south america and mexico and what0.96
01:56:45.800they really cared about was having access to all these other port cities they lose america they
01:56:50.680lose pretty much all of that which they more or less did um which is like right there it's like
01:56:58.080the american revolution if we need a headline american revolution is a master class on how not
01:57:03.040to deal with a revolution and i think that's that's why americans are the american government
01:57:08.060is so good at causing and tamping down revolutions throughout the rest of the world because they kind
01:57:14.100of one of the few cases where they got away with it and also remember that um and he points this
01:57:20.820on the book too that historically anything like what america was trying to do it was it was brutal
01:57:28.940the repercussions for that like if you go back to rome you go back to greece you go back to any
01:57:33.480of these places like if you were i'm reading a book right now about the bronze age and egypt
01:57:39.160and whatnot and it's like if you were a colony that rebelled they slaughtered everyone that's
01:57:45.620what used to happen they would put like and and the fact that britain britain ironically was trying
01:57:50.940to be a bit more enlightened but you know throughout time if you did what america would do
01:57:56.980they would enslave your children and then like put your heads up on sticks and start start over
01:58:04.520but so what was interesting was that those stakes were higher back then so and what was interesting
01:58:12.160like he had said in the book and i think this is a point that i love coming back to like
01:58:16.600the american revolution changed revolutions um and even the the subsequent revolutions i'm not
01:58:25.000talking about african revolutions like there's some very obviously brutal genocides and revolutions
01:58:29.780but um our idea of a revolution in the modern day is is somewhat bloodless and you don't see
01:58:37.600even despotic governments and and tyrants they don't crack down on revolutions like they used
01:58:44.800to back in the day so it's something about the american revolution changed the conceptualization
01:58:49.900of revolutions throughout the entire world and what p how how they are reacted to i just thought
01:58:56.840that was like an interesting point it made me kind of think about yeah like how revolutions
01:59:01.100change over time um and he makes a note here he says uh it was during this time that america
01:59:10.380essentially invented lynching he said the 10 years spent on this sort of mob violence and riots
01:59:16.060stuck into the character of americans in the form of lynching which was still practiced in the 20th
01:59:21.780century that was kind of a funny note he's saying no lynching is uniquely american but it's that's
01:59:26.500kind of good but it's like i like him proposing the american as like you know lynching's in your
01:59:32.320dna yeah we lynched our way into this situation we're gonna lynch our way out of it yeah no one
01:59:38.040else was lynching you guys invented lynching don't be ashamed of it you named a city after it0.63
01:59:42.400and then there was like oh lynching it's for uh it's a black thing it's like no no no they were0.83
01:59:48.740lynched everybody was getting lynched go ask a black person now what they feel about a british1.00
01:59:55.340person being lynched i bet they'll slap their goddamn knees those black ass knees1.00
02:00:01.340um he says in the book and i love this part he talks about how throughout this time when1.00
02:00:10.120they're planning the independence and as they're smuggling and as they're looting and as they're
02:00:14.740fucking britain in the press and in their communication with britain they're very nice
02:00:19.640like according to like the public documents we have about how they're communicating with britain0.99
02:00:24.960they're very loyal and friendly towards england which would make you think this it's like oh my
02:00:29.780god they can't be thinking for the outsider reading that they would say like oh my god
02:00:34.640the patriots they loved britain up until the point that they didn't and some people take that
02:00:39.580seriously and say britain must have done something to change the relationship or the american patriots
02:00:45.980were lying which is actually way funnier like they're doing all this and they're saying no we
02:00:51.100love you like we don't want independence what are you talking about as they're actively playing as
02:00:57.460they're setting up the continental congress which is a nation born out of gaslighting it's so great0.97
02:01:04.400it is gaslighting smuggling lynching america rules man damn um and like i was saying like0.95
02:01:14.020after the american revolution revolution itself was popularized right so it's like america not0.96
02:01:20.000kind of popularized the american revolution they franchised it around the world and at the i think
02:01:25.840around this time was this around the time of the french revolution i gotta get my numbers because
02:01:31.000i remember like the reading about like the french revolution was keenly interested in what was going
02:01:36.880on in america at the time so i think there was like some interplay going on there as well
02:01:41.020an interesting note he made here and i didn't know this because i only had like a very cursory
02:01:46.140understanding of this when he was talking about the boston tea party the boston tea party is where
02:01:50.540they obviously threw all that tea over the side of the ship it was a big spectacle um it was
02:01:56.620interesting that boston was the only city to dump the tea but there was all kinds of other protests
02:02:02.600that were planned at the exact same time they were going to make a big show against britain
02:02:08.220and like a protest against the tea tax and most of the other cities sent the ships back like we're
02:02:15.060not going to accept your tea so we'll let you we'll keep your ship and port here then send you
02:02:19.920on your way but we won't take your tea but it was because of um uh john hancock and sam adams0.99
02:02:27.720they just wanted a spectacle they said no we're gonna go throw it in the fucking river0.95
02:02:32.060and but they were the only ones who did it so it was like a new york and philadelphia0.98
02:02:37.660were the ones that rebelled by sending it back only sam adams made a big show of it
02:02:41.920the violence of which actually no this was the thing um they hated the violence of the act
02:02:48.500right they hate the fact that it was like a big show and they saw it but here's the other thing
02:02:52.840they hated the most that it was so organized that the stories of the boston tea party that
02:02:58.480were getting backwards like there was a crowd there was a massive crowd watching it with torches
02:03:03.220and lanterns and everything and everyone was there it wasn't just riffraff it wasn't just0.99
02:03:08.140crazy protesters everyone from the fucking city went there the fucking mayor was there and they0.99
02:03:12.880just watched it happen and that's what pissed off england the most that it wasn't this animalistic1.00
02:03:18.360flashpoint of people it's like it was very orderly and that made it seem way more dangerous and
02:03:24.260coordinated that's when they started to freak on that's what caused the boston blockade which was
02:03:30.160the first time britain tried to really reinstall sovereignty they just set up a blockade and tried
02:03:34.260to starve out boston which is like a big deal um and at that point like they at this point britain
02:03:42.020sees it losing its grip on america and that's why this is where the quebec act comes from because
02:03:48.160britain now goes to canada and say we're afraid that canada is going to join america they were
02:03:55.140absolutely terrified that this american influence would pollute our minds and we would join the
02:03:59.880cause for independence and so they start to try and make quebec happy how they make quebec happy
02:04:04.960they give them the quebec act which just lets them make their own the idea that that french0.84
02:04:10.680canada was allowed to be catholic was a huge fucking deal like just having this like catholic0.61
02:04:17.620island right there like you never would have heard that especially not from britain but the reason0.95
02:04:22.520that quebec exists was because they're trying to make make it so quebec wouldn't just join america
02:04:27.220yeah but it also had the side effect of pissing off every protestant
02:04:34.920in america as well as canada so it was kind of funny that the entire time like there's
02:04:42.760the story in this book is the interplay between canada and america and britain and it's like
02:04:49.220america and american britain are both trying to convince canada to join its side but they're also
02:04:55.240talking on both sides of their mouth because while they're trying to convince canada there's all0.98
02:04:59.500these um notes and letters of them saying okay we're never gonna get these fucking canadians0.99
02:05:04.820on our side and the the phrasing they had was that canadians lack the patriotic spirit0.97
02:05:11.380for or the lust for independence and freedom that's what they said at the time i think history
02:05:17.900aside from the listenership of this show i think history kind of bore that out you know i mean like
02:05:22.820they're just there wasn't there just wasn't the spirit there wasn't the the thirst for whatever
02:05:28.460it was america was doing and america couldn't convince canada to join on and there was lots
02:05:33.520and lots of invitations and that's just you know the way it is i think that's that's an interesting
02:05:39.560relationship too and to this day we're still technically a british colony right um and then
02:05:46.320so like to save boston around this time they create the continental congress since they weren't
02:05:51.200even a nation yet um but here's a trick so they said we're gonna start a we're gonna start this
02:05:59.020little independent thing but we're gonna kind of be democratic and hear from the people
02:06:03.040but the problem was they only pulled from the patriots and it was unelected so say we're just
02:06:10.420gonna put a bunch of leaders here they boxed out the loyalists and then he makes a point here that
02:06:15.460i think is very very important to this entire story um and this will be like the main one of
02:06:20.880main pillars which is that the loyalists lacked coordination and they lacked that sort of fire
02:06:28.240that i'm talking about that there were the story was that the loyalists the british loyalists in
02:06:33.140america they were pretty stacked there was a lot of them there's a lot of people who are loyal to
02:06:38.220britain but they didn't have the coordination they didn't have the aptitude to fight back they didn't
02:06:43.040think they needed to they didn't want even want to have a fight so they just got steamrolled that's
02:06:48.300the story of the loyalists in america and then they fled a lot of them fled to canada a lot of
02:06:52.380them fled to britain a lot of them kind of stuck around and just became uh american later but like
02:06:58.560you know they were never offered a seat at the table because they never took a seat at the table
02:07:03.520you know what i mean yeah and i think that's the story of not only britain but the british
02:07:09.160the people friendly to britain even in america just never took it seriously that's the entire
02:07:15.480story they never took it seriously and then look what happens now you're tarred and feathered they
02:07:19.800estimated that um they said uh yeah they said like three quarters of america were loyalists
02:07:30.760but they were ca that's what britain thought britain thought the three quarters of america
02:07:35.160were loyalist but they they were wrong in the opposite direction like america was overestimating
02:07:41.000and so was britain because they were counting the hesitant in with the loyalists so it was more or
02:07:46.780less like they had the exact same amount but neither of them accounted for that middle group
02:07:51.500who didn't didn't really know what they want um and also there was uh the loyalists were so
02:07:57.920the loyalists gave up their guns to the patriots um which sounds kind of crazy but in these cities
02:08:05.580where you know the patriots were in charge they made every loyalist like handed their guns and
02:08:09.900they stay the same thing happens when anyone turns in their guns like and also by the way that's why
02:08:16.800americans are so into keeping their guns because americans also demanded that their enemies turn
02:08:22.720in their guns and look what they did to them like americans know what that's the whole thing like
02:08:28.940americans don't want they they don't want the government taking their guns because they were
02:08:34.620also the government and made other americans give up their guns not that long ago yeah um
02:08:40.820yeah and there's the line here i said the patriots were shocked this worked so well because
02:08:45.900liberty and freedom were denied to others the more they won and then this is where like that
02:08:51.040john locke natural rights thing was betrayed the entire time um i know we gotta get going soon but
02:08:56.720there's a couple of things i wanted to mention one one of the central stories of this book
02:09:01.600and he makes a strong case for it was there's this uh general named general howe who is a british
02:09:08.460general and there's a lot of locations in canada named after uh general howe the the belief is
02:09:16.540that he did such a bad job fighting the americans that he did it on purpose
02:09:21.700and then there's a lot of speculation i think he pleads a strong case that
02:09:29.960there's certain decisions in these various battles where like he was so he was supposed to be he's
02:09:37.240supposed to help this other regiment he just wasn't there because he decided to take a shitty way to
02:09:42.840get there he makes all these decisions that a guy of his stature would not make so the case being
02:09:49.560made is that he kind of threw the war in favor of america because he just liked their cause um he's
02:09:55.760General Howe was charged with aiding the rebels by doing a bad job on purpose and sabotaging his own strategy.
02:10:02.500His actions were bizarre and he was too nice on purpose.
02:10:06.340By July 1777, things began to go very wrong.
02:10:11.520The plan was for General John Burgoyne, leader of a second British force, to disrupt resistance in upstate New York as he marched south.
02:10:19.480Howe was to march north to meet him, but General Howe had other plans.
02:10:23.940He decided instead to sail south, to march on Philadelphia,
02:10:27.860following the British Army's traditional military strategy of capturing cities.
02:10:32.340In doing so, he would ensure his name in the history books.
02:10:35.860He captured Philadelphia, but the victory was hollow.
02:10:39.060It held no military advantages for the British effort.
02:10:42.580On top of that, in the north, General Burgoyne's army had been completely destroyed.
02:10:48.100But more crucially, the Continental Army was now poised for the next opportunity to strike.
02:10:53.380um they because when he went back to britain after they were asking why did you treat them
02:10:58.120like ireland um you know why didn't you do this stuff and that that's and he went in front of
02:11:03.320like judges and had to defend the fact that he did such a shitty job um because britain uh
02:11:11.380they surrendered to the battle of saratoga um he also makes a line in here that i really liked
02:11:18.200because after britain surrenders at the battle of saratoga which is a really bad loss france
02:11:26.300signs with america because france was keeping out of this for the longest time they didn't know who
02:11:30.920they were going to back they know they hated britain but they didn't know if they wanted
02:11:34.120to sign with america then they signed with america he's got a line here that um uh american liberty
02:11:39.920was guaranteed by a frenchman and i just i just thought that there's so many fun funny lines in
02:11:46.960this book it's written in a bit of an old style but there's so much comedy in this there's so
02:11:52.620much almost like passive aggressive humor they said yeah america you have france to thank for0.92
02:11:57.420your fucking country which if you know anything about america maybe not the guys from our scene0.98
02:12:02.400but most americans would not like to hear that and we'll we'll end on this um just the other0.99
02:12:09.340thing that i found so illuminating about the book and this does get brought up a bit uh in the
02:12:14.700mythologizing of the american revolution um he talks about this later in the book where
02:12:22.020most of the militia men and the minute men were uh the patriot riflemen and they were basically
02:12:27.960armed and clothed themselves so uh he made a point that when you see paintings of these battles
02:12:34.860you see the american soldiers in these very nice clean crisp uniforms and he's like well in reality
02:12:42.060those uniforms were probably sewn by their wives at home and their gun was the gun that was over
02:12:49.040their fireplace that they just brought from home and i just i loved that image because0.99
02:12:54.940and a lot of the officers too a lot of the officers look like shit a lot of the officers0.95
02:13:00.020were like boots they found and that's why even the officer class weren't treated that seriously0.97
02:13:05.500there it was really really decentralized and they were they were more or less fighting a guerrilla0.97
02:13:10.260war at that time like they were just ambushing people from the fucking trees uh and here's some0.94
02:13:16.380of these battles and you know when people think of these battles uh they probably think of you0.95
02:13:23.100know civil war reenactments and that sort of thing and the musket rifles but you know once you
02:13:28.700surveyed like you know 70 dead 70 bayoneted as they were running away it's like these were brutal
02:13:35.520battles too people were fucking screaming and dying um but just that idea of like the entire0.87
02:13:43.500all the soldiers for this revolution were just again the rifle they brought from home was such
02:13:49.440a fascinating image to me um and i i just i i would like that highlighted more i would like
02:13:56.080the fact that they had irregular outfits and they but they still had that tenacity and they didn't
02:14:02.620They didn't really have a lot of support.
02:14:04.380They literally just did it themselves.
02:14:05.840And they came from home and they met up in a field.
02:14:09.120And they waved goodbye to their wives.1.00
02:14:21.880Now, maybe warfare has changed, obviously.
02:14:23.940We can't just fight like that anymore.
02:14:26.740But there was sort of a whimsy to that as I was reading these accounts of it.
02:14:31.920And again, if you want to wallpaper that over because it's imperfect, but I'm like, no, it's more enlightening.
02:14:38.280It's more invigorating if these are just guys who are passionate about it.
02:14:43.320But, you know, this did get them into trouble because they did try to invade Canada and it did not go well.
02:14:50.060Yeah, Benedict Arnold was actually the guy who was trying to mount a failed attack on Canada, specifically Quebec to try and get them against the British.
02:14:58.820so there's this whole section where they just walk up to quebec from america and for some reason
02:15:06.920it's the classic thing where they you know it's a bit of a meme and a trope but it's like oh don't
02:15:12.300try and invade russia in the winter they tried to invade quebec in the winter and for some reason0.97
02:15:18.440they thought they could just walk there and so they said we'll just go through the fucking woods0.98
02:15:22.600they won't even see it coming and it turns out that the woods are really fucking inhospitable0.97
02:15:27.860and we're talking old growth forests before we fucked them all up so they're literally like like0.85
02:15:33.180we could only move like a meter at a time you know i mean like they were so slow and so cold and they
02:15:38.940were just dying on their way to quebec so arnold planned to lead his 1100 men up the kennebec river
02:15:46.760and then overland through the unmapped wilderness of maine to attack quebec the distance was
02:15:54.060estimated at 180 miles and that it would take 20 days to complete. Both assumptions would prove to
02:16:01.900be terribly wrong. Arnold's army left Fort Western on September 25, 1775 and almost immediately
02:16:10.860encountered problems. To negotiate around the countless rocks in the river, the boat crews had
02:16:17.980to wade in frigid, waist-deep water, half-pulling, half-pushing the boats upstream.
02:16:27.300After only 20 miles on the Kennebec, the men faced their first portage.
02:16:32.480This operation entailed unloading the entire boat, carrying the 400-pound boat and all
02:16:39.200the provisions many in 250 pound barrels along slippery riverbank paths until they found
02:16:47.680navigable water upstream then reloading the boat and pushing off again the hastily constructed
02:16:55.760boats began to leak which ruined the gunpowder and spoiled much of their preserved meat0.97
02:17:02.400the flip side to that is that you get really bad dumb decisions and a whole bunch of guys who0.98
02:17:06.400weren't trained to fucking freeze to death and then there's stories in here of them you know0.98
02:17:10.600boiling their shoes to eat because also like if you're this is the hard thing about canada like0.98
02:17:15.920there's not a lot of plentiful wildlife up here if you want to shoot a deer it takes a while like0.96
02:17:21.780it's not if you're unfamiliar with the forest it's a fucking nightmare to find anything and so0.94
02:17:26.960they thought they could just find a bunch of turkeys up here turns out they were like boiling0.98
02:17:31.740in their fucking boots and then they got to quebec and like immediately surrendered0.98
02:17:36.080just didn't work anyway but that's that's all we'll talk about the um0.99
02:17:44.240the american revolution for today um and we'll just end on that that note here it says uh in
02:17:49.700the book he says the canadians would never have gone along with it anyway and had no revolutionary
02:17:53.960spirit so he didn't it was revolutionary no revolutionary spirit not the spirit for freedom
02:17:59.500or liberty but the revolution itself and so you know i thought that was interesting um so what
02:18:07.160do you think about that i know there's a lot we could dive into i didn't there's like entire
02:18:11.640battles that are outlined in detail in this book the battle of bunker hill is a good one
02:18:16.660and you go not only the bat what happened to the battles what led up to the battles but the entire
02:18:21.420troop formations and how the attack occurred this is a very very good book for that if you like
02:18:26.300you know civil war era type stuff but sorry i cut you off there what do you think of all that
02:18:32.300no i mean broadly speaking i find all of it really fascinating not just from a history
02:18:37.000historical standpoint from a cultural standpoint like knowing kind of where we came from
02:18:40.700but i do feel sometimes like hearing so many of these stories there's been some very dysgenic
02:18:47.280change over time because i find it hard to believe that a lot of the americans quote unquote that i
02:18:55.200see today descended from those people and that's kind of the joke is we know that most of the
02:18:59.100americans that you meet in some urbanity now are not descended from those people because those
02:19:05.460people seem like a totally different nation than what we have now so i mean my i mean it kind of
02:19:11.500makes me makes me want to find rediscover that nation and then the whole the the jab about
02:19:18.760canadians not having the revolutionary spirit hurts it that cuts deep but i also i kind of
02:19:26.480agree like i kind of get what he's saying we have more i think we have we're the pioneer spirit1.00
02:19:31.920yeah americans are the fuck you i got mine or no fuck you give me your spirit we have the fuck you1.00
02:19:39.120i got mine spirit yeah so because remember the revolution here the story he's telling the book1.00
02:19:44.720it's almost a revolution just for the sake of it but that's what makes it so good and that is what
02:19:50.740you need to do you need to be unfair you need to treat your enemy like england's they're saying
02:19:57.300all right he said it's a nation a nation of lynching and gaslighting fun like and look and
02:20:03.020they won and look we so everyone i'm saying if you want to everyone should get more into lynching
02:20:08.240and gaslighting yeah yeah and also the book i found interesting it doesn't talk um it doesn't
02:20:14.120really spend a lot of time in the areas where a lot of other of these books would spend time in
02:20:18.720like let's talk about george washington let's talk about ben franklin they don't really come
02:20:22.840up a lot in the book samuel adams and benedict darnall come up a bit more but by keeping it
02:20:28.420in the revolution like washington comes up like once one of the main reasons is because he said
02:20:33.660george washington didn't fight a lot of battles like if you're talking about just the battles
02:20:38.240and just the skirmishes washington wasn't really there much which is you know against the mythology0.60
02:20:44.160but he's like no we're going to talk about the shit as it happened and his whole thing with this
02:20:48.040book was going more to the primary sources rather than secondary sources so that is the uh the true0.81
02:20:54.560history of the american revolution by sydney george fisher i hope i picked a good one i know
02:20:58.760this is a very passionate topic for a lot of people so i might get people jumping down my
02:21:04.080throat but all i'm saying is i'm a fan i'm not even saying anything bad cool it's nice cool
02:21:10.100all right this has been a good one i'll talk to you later man yeah no worries buddy see ya
02:21:14.520all right dimes judas welcome to jay burden show how are you
02:21:33.980guys doing doing all right thank you i am very glad to be here can i just say this i really like
02:21:39.900that intro i don't think i've seen it before i've only seen clips that's a fantastic intro i have
02:21:44.920watched it actually in the first time that i did see it i didn't make the association with with
02:21:48.980your name but i was thinking at the time damn that is a fine intro okay see what you're seeing0.54
02:21:53.540right here is a classic judas devilish trick talking like oh i've seen it before i've actually0.95
02:21:59.140i've been into jay burden for a long time don't fucking believe it this will not be the first0.84
02:22:03.100time he does this this time all right go ahead i don't know it was convincing i believe it0.86
02:22:07.800that's how it gets you so that intro it's a funny story that intro took me forever because i i'm not
02:22:15.220you know incredibly technical and adobe after effects is an absolute bear of a program to
02:22:21.160wrestle around if you're used to different programs and so it's not a particularly difficult
02:22:26.460one because essentially what i did is are you guys familiar with what uh amvs are yeah yeah
02:22:32.400they're anime music videos and they got kind of popular in the like mid 2000s with like kind of
02:22:38.040cringe you know dragon ball green green day edits buddy buddy we are old what are we 30 year old
02:22:44.240boomers we're aging i'm explaining that to my audience right i figured you guys would know
02:22:49.460i know because you have to understand how important that was for the development of
02:22:54.360this generation that we're in so zoomers don't have that they don't know what it's like to be
02:22:59.660really invested in like a super saiyan montage set to lincoln park well see i i grew up with my
02:23:07.420own and it was just you know it was like soundcloud rap edits to boruto which were but i was thinking
02:23:13.340it was like i can't figure out this program who is someone who knows how to edit and isn't very
02:23:18.340smart i was like oh the people who make amvs so i'll just look up amv tutorials and that's how i
02:23:25.740made that intro that's we got to be mining these people like there's a lot of wisdom in this by
02:23:32.920the way i should have asked this how lewd and cruel are we allowed to get with our language
02:23:38.980can we curse i'm not gonna get you in trouble with any okay how much how deep can we plumb the0.96
02:23:45.500depths of this retardation to bring up the jewels give it to me in scoville units please0.96
02:23:51.260i mean i would say this was like this was like uh just pure you know cassason oil right like0.96
02:23:58.700it's just enough to send you into anaphylactic shock oh perfect because i i remember it it was
02:24:04.900literally this guy and the guy sounded out of his mind high and you could tell he was recording it
02:24:10.020on his like high school think pad you know telling and i was like oh perfect this is exactly at my
02:24:16.740level if a 15 year old with a mental disability can explain it i can probably figure it out
02:24:21.240like i was laughing the other day about the the wretched projects that we could engage in if we
02:24:29.120were in high school like our you and me judas in high school if we had the technology that's
02:24:35.040available to people now because all we had back then on school computers was like doom we could
02:24:40.480install doom and maybe trick some teachers but the ability to have hollywood grade technology
02:24:46.540for film edits it would only be used for bullying by the way oh of course and that's that's what
02:24:52.040photoshop was for for people my age because with like a pirated russian copy of photoshop and maybe
02:24:58.000like 15 minutes of youtube tutorials you can like edit your friends into every historical like
02:25:03.520you know tragedy that's ever happened it's like ha ha look you're at nan king you know like you've
02:25:08.180got a severed chinese head in your hand you start photoshopping ha ha look you're in the third
02:25:12.820reich and that just like a bunch of people you know it's funny though uh we talked about this
02:25:17.420on the show uh because everyone's talking about ai and deep fakes and everything and we were just
02:25:22.220going back and forth laughing at you know the idea of the technology the highly advanced technology
02:25:28.880to create a deep fake or create you know you plug in the text and it comes out now joe rogan can say
02:25:34.680whatever hillary clinton can say whatever you know how the teams of engineers data scientists that
02:25:41.480we're required to do this. And if I imagine myself as the investor or the marketing executive,
02:25:47.480whatever, someone's pitching me this idea. I need to know how is this used for anything other than
02:25:53.900bullying? Like there's literally no application for deep fake technology. If you're the CEO of
02:26:01.340that company, again, $10 million to create it. What is the application other than either bullying
02:26:07.220or blackmail i don't know what it is you have to really reach yeah well it's exactly it's truly the
02:26:14.360the reputation of the thesis of universal basic income you know it's like we give people limitless
02:26:20.000freedom surely they will become the next shakespeare and in reality it's just like haha i
02:26:24.420made so i made joe rogan say the n-word for 10 hours yeah the first the first minute of the first
02:26:31.240day that that technology rolls out it's hillary clinton saying she wants obama as a slave
02:26:36.760why wouldn't that be the first thing that happens and there is a jay burden ai out there that says
02:26:43.400all manner of horrible things and it instantly as soon as i saw that i was like well
02:26:47.640i better not get doxxed because if so there's all the stuff i have said and all the things
02:26:53.200that i haven't said but someone thought it would be funny if i had well you know what's funny that
02:26:58.340we talked about this on the show not often but it's a developing story obviously but one strategy
02:27:05.140that we were playing around with was not even for your average dissident, but for your average
02:27:09.460citizen. The idea that if there is so much, not only is the government spying on you, obviously,
02:27:16.140but there's this ability for blackmail from either federal or private interest. You would
02:27:22.000have to flood the internet with evidence of you saying and doing everything to the point that it
02:27:27.860devalues all uh digital information of you so there's you and also a deep fake of you admitting0.98
02:27:35.240that you're gay admitting that you're trans admitting that you're black just every thing0.74
02:27:39.680so there's such a fog of data around you that everything people come forward with by saying0.97
02:27:44.880look i found him saying this is treated with suspicion yeah i think like the only way to do
02:27:49.460broad broad spectrum uh like contradictory information so that for any one piece of
02:27:54.760information somebody might want to use it as as evidence as evidence right there's like two other
02:27:59.220pieces that are contradictory so yeah there is a defense mechanism but this is that's a whole other
02:28:03.840service i mean that's like the next step nobody's gone there yet but call it a prediction it's0.99
02:28:08.880almost you're turning the internet into the ganges it's just full of trash and shit and needles1.00
02:28:15.820and it's like indian guys just floating down like that's all the internet's going to be1.00
02:28:20.540if i have my way so you're telling me that there's a there's a dimes bot out there just
02:28:26.480sending bobs and vagine yeah i you know what the bit that we had um on the show remember this juice
02:28:34.200remember trans dimes yeah so we got a vocoder um it's any the service anyone can get um what was
02:28:42.680it called audio mod something like that but there's a and they might not even have this anymore but
02:28:48.300you could make your voice sound like a robot sound like a monster whatever the auto tune
02:28:53.160but then there's one female to male and male to female and then so we had a recurring character
02:28:59.420called trans dimes and the character went as far as me saying hey everybody it's me trans dimes
02:29:07.300that was about it but that was enough because you don't want to go down that rabbit hole
02:29:11.820but uh you would point out just it doesn't just up pitch your voice it adds like a warmth and
02:29:18.660softness it's really chilling it adds a little inflection like when you finish a word when in
02:29:23.780the dead space it adds an inflection and then it also um gives a little lisp like it lengthens the
02:29:29.860s's and it it's weird how subtle it is but it it makes you want to vomit like listening to it
02:29:36.640what it makes you sound like like no joke i'm not using this as a dig but also who gives a
02:29:41.600it it makes you sound like philosophy tube it sounds like a man who like added something to
02:29:48.120his throat and it's like a soft throatiness anyway so so i got trans times is what i'm saying so i
02:29:55.960gotta have all these other personas that just uh flood the sensors well in a weird way it is truly0.84
02:30:04.620kind of the death of the real right it's like kind of mutually assured destruction when we're almost
02:30:10.540there's so much like you said there's so many kind of like clips of everyone saying everything
02:30:14.900that you know it comes at a certain point it's like nothing is you know nothing can be counted0.69
02:30:19.760on and I've heard kind of this like schizo theory that like oh that's that's that's what they'll use0.98
02:30:24.740that's their open door to get in you know digital ID you know the idea that there'll be some kind
02:30:29.380of attempt to you know link you know permanently link you know your public face with your online
02:30:36.020persona, which who knows, I'm not necessarily convinced, but I think it is interesting because
02:30:41.240I mean, I've already got to the point where it's like, I, I quite literally don't like you could
02:30:45.080show me an audio clip of anyone saying anything. And I don't believe it, you know, because I've
02:30:48.380heard a million of, you know, Joe Biden edits of him reading out, you know, like thug hunters or
02:30:52.500whatever, something. It's great in one sense, because it almost turns the digital world into
02:30:58.380a desert. Like it's very destructive in terms of the trust that it, that it, that it destroys.
02:31:03.160And if people can't go on online and trust anything that they now that they see, you know, like with mid journey or that they read with chat GPT or something that they hear through a voice AI, then yeah, I mean, it does motivate people to go back to the real world to the actual like meat space, you know.
02:31:21.520So I think it's actually it could be a positive thing in the long run for the exact opposite reasons that they're probably pushing the software.
02:31:27.180Yeah. And this is something that I think is within our power to control. I think, what was it? The quote from Nick Land, who had said, nothing human makes it to the future. Nothing human survives in the future.
02:31:39.240uh it is within the power of even the most armchairist of dissidents to create an internet
02:31:47.440where nothing human exists on the internet that we force reality back in the real world and the
02:31:53.300internet exists but it's kind of known as just a place where fake things are and people can which
02:31:58.960is you know in so many words what the internet originally was uh back in like the 80s and 90s
02:32:05.000internet was kind of understood to be this place where people have alternate lives, alternate
02:32:09.700realities. They go crazy and kooky with things. And some people miss that. Some people don't.
02:32:14.960I'm not saying, I'm not doing the old head bit where we just talked about that. But I think
02:32:19.800that's something we could actually do is force real life off of the internet because
02:32:25.780the social media revolution was trying to capture real life and bring it online,
02:32:30.320which is kind of what the digital ID thing is as well.
02:33:11.320You see everyone, there's every type of accelerationist you could want.
02:33:15.100We have yet to see a hyper-reality accelerationist.0.59
02:33:18.960We have yet to see the one who said, let's just go full fucking steam ahead and just make0.69
02:33:23.220this as inhuman as possible, which will in essence preserve humanity elsewhere.
02:33:27.980But like you had said, there already are some AI influencers.
02:33:33.300And this is where if I'm being a stinker, if I'm being let me put on my Stephen Colbert hat and say that influencers these days are already as fake as you can get.
02:33:43.740You know, like that would be my commentary on influencer culture.
02:33:47.260I'm not doing I'm taking off my Stephen Colbert hat.
02:33:49.920But it's you know, it's we did a whole arc on cybernetics on our show.
02:33:56.400we covered uh one of the books was by marvin minsky and um it's a fantastic book and he was
02:34:03.040talking about the discussion is how easy is it to replicate the human mind in a cybernetic space and
02:34:11.280this is we could spend hours on this discussion i'm not trying to take us down that spiral but
02:34:16.000there is a point we made that most people are not difficult to replicate because you know there's
02:34:22.840that line from iRobot, which is not a great movie, but I always come back to it, which is Will Smith
02:34:28.460is interrogating the robot, and he says, oh, can a robot make a paint a beautiful masterpiece? Can
02:34:35.140it write a sonnet? And the robot says, well, can you? It's essentially that, that most people are
02:34:40.340not difficult to replicate in an AI space. And I don't want to take this down a racial thing,
02:34:46.560but there's some groups I think would be easier to replicate in an AI space than others. Once you
02:34:52.660realize that, especially if you're taking into kind of like IQ level personality, most people
02:34:56.800are kind of boring. It doesn't take a lot to trick a human. So the idea you could, you could
02:35:03.460replicate an influencer who is essentially what, what an influencer now is what if you made a human
02:35:09.400into a chat bot? So it wouldn't be hard to do. Yeah. Well, I think also that there's, there's
02:35:15.820something to be said for the fact that this will be both a, will be both a carrot and a stick,
02:35:21.000so to speak right because and you're right that i think especially as you know we most people are
02:35:27.280not you know these kind of like you know radical dissidents these people who truly do you know
02:35:32.900kind of buck trends most people go along to get along and to be honest that's in their best
02:35:37.800interest you know in most societies that would serve them quite well but nonetheless right you
02:35:43.040can use like you said you can use the power of like an influencer you know use the power of an
02:35:47.380ai to kind of cajole people positively like here's something you should strive for but also kind of
02:35:53.940negatively and i think that a lot of the the dialogue around twitter bots got kind of destroyed
02:36:01.140by like shit libs mad that hillary clinton lost the election but like if you've been on twitter0.50
02:36:06.180you you have encountered bots before you know you've encountered this like swarm of essentially0.97
02:36:12.240like negative, incredibly repetitive attention that doesn't really make sense. It happened a
02:36:18.280while back to a lot of guys, a lot of our friends, people in our spheres, they essentially were
02:36:24.500getting kind of like errant bots forms. They would tweet a word out and it would kind of
02:36:29.440relate to what the bots were saying, but the bots would be saying like anti-Q things on people
02:36:35.300talking about like, you know, vaccine side effects, which like, okay, there's kind of a crossover
02:36:38.920over there. But those aren't the same people necessarily. But I think that as that technology
02:36:43.700gets more sophisticated, and because again, most people are pro-social in the sense that they want
02:36:49.200to do the accepted thing, I think that provides an incredible opportunity to essentially push
02:36:55.580culture and to push people in whatever direction you want. Absolutely. And I think a lot of people,
02:37:01.660especially on the right, and when I say the right, I mean the broad right, and that's a big umbrella.
02:37:07.340A lot of them, and I'm not trying to pin this on any particular person, but a lot of people, I think, have this idea that power is that which lets itself be known.
02:37:17.140But truly advanced power and control doesn't really want you to know that it is in power and control.
02:37:23.640And so, like you had just said, there's this concept that might be a conspiracy theory, but once I describe it, you would say, well, why wouldn't they do this?
02:37:36.400So it's this idea that for uncomfortable or troublesome people, perhaps like ourselves, let's take Reddit, let's take Twitter, these examples, they can ban us, but when they ban us, we make a lot of noise and we cause a lot of trouble.
02:37:53.280what they what power doesn't want you to do power doesn't want to have angry troublemakers
02:37:57.800it wants compliance and what's a good way to make troublemakers compliant well it's not to punish
02:38:02.700them so let's make martyrs out of them it's to kind of make them think that what they're doing
02:38:07.560is working so heaven banning it's this thing they'll keep you on the platform if you have an
02:38:11.860account there but it will slowly start to segregate you into almost a fake version of the site that
02:38:18.040populated by bots. And you won't really know it. And you'll get your upvotes, you'll get your
02:38:23.580retweets, you'll get some sort of engagement. But you won't be aware that all you're dealing with
02:38:29.840is this sort of sequestered theme park that they made for you. And of course, it won't work on
02:38:34.620everyone. Of course, some people will clue into it, but a lot of them won't. And so some people
02:38:39.620will say, well, this is something that's been discussed. It's been theorized. Who knows if
02:38:44.600they're actually using it. I would say, why wouldn't they? That is an elegant solution
02:38:48.880for the problem of troublemakers. And once you start thinking like your opponent, if you think
02:38:54.960like your enemy, think what would make me happy? It would make me feel like I'm being heard and
02:39:00.920liked and maybe even popular, but it doesn't matter. And so this is one of the reasons
02:39:06.000we were talking about completely polluting the digital space and polluting it in such a way
02:39:12.020We're also the polluters are the only ones that will be able to navigate it. And what that will do, and again, this is all wild blue sky speculation, but what that would do is increase the importance of real life interaction.
02:39:26.180Now you can talk about this from a political perspective, a business perspective, whatever it might be. But there's already political groups in the scene right now. Maybe some we agree with, maybe some we don't agree with, doesn't matter. But they correctly have the focus on you got to meet with people in real life. You got to network in real life. You got to rely on these relationships.
02:39:45.400And I think this might be a way to accomplish that and basically force people to get offline because, again, it's going to be like a burned out ruin that you can navigate, but you're going to be aware that the action is happening elsewhere.
02:41:23.300I think that's going to increase overall,
02:41:25.620even within closed groups where there are no bots,
02:41:28.820just because there always could be a bot.
02:41:30.740or you don't know we just seems to come up every conversation the last few weeks like
02:41:34.440any one of us could be a voice ai any one of us in the chat could be chat gbt you don't know0.80
02:41:39.160so the only way that you can tell is by shit testing everybody all of the time well and also0.91
02:41:44.460that's kind of what i was getting at and just to that point it might sound inelegant and crass but0.69
02:41:50.000i cannot recommend this enough to people if you run a chat make them say an original slur
02:41:56.540something and original is the important part it is worked so well in our chat i mean maybe we end
02:42:04.880up in jail tomorrow but i know that there's some people who've like struggled with it i'm like
02:42:09.220get out like and we're not the types of people who are like really bad with that it's just funny
02:42:14.000and the more funny it is the better it is but also to that point you just made this would be the
02:42:19.920purpose of encouraging people to like you almost need to the ultimate vetting is just meeting people
02:42:25.840in real life and saying that they're a real person because of the heaven banding example
02:42:29.740the fear is that you would be you know grappling with an ai that can replicate human interaction
02:42:36.860so you just want to be for your sanity you are going to need to be aware that the person you're
02:42:42.580talking to is real and as far as i know there's only one way to do that and this won't be this
02:42:47.620year this might be years down the road but i don't necessarily see this stopping and i'm we're just
02:42:54.620trying to, I think the more people talking about practical solutions, the better we'll be. And
02:43:00.120that's my position on it. I could be wrong, but I think the more, just one big brainstorming
02:43:05.720session is all we're doing. So to me, it reminds me of a minor news story from 2016, right? So I
02:43:14.720was still in high school and this is when I considered such things to be worthy of my
02:43:18.740attention. But some kind of whistleblower came out and basically said, look, Activision,
02:43:24.620the company that owns Call of Duty, has developed a system to essentially get you to pay for things
02:43:32.080in game, right? Get you to pay for skins. And the way they've done it is they have combined
02:43:36.280a combination of bots and matchmaking. So what they'll do is they'll try to funnel you into
02:43:41.820having a bad time, right? They'll try to walk you up to losing over and over and over again.
02:43:47.560And then they will reverse that. They will give you a better time, right? You'll have a hot game.
02:43:52.320you'll have a hot streak after you buy something, you know, and the idea is, you know, from your
02:43:57.240side, all of these, these other accounts, you know, it looks like, you know, be like XXX0.95
02:44:02.120Pussy Slayer 69, you know, and obviously that's a real guy or you, so you think, right. But in0.58
02:44:06.840actuality, that's one of, you know, like a dozen different bots all trained to essentially ruin
02:44:10.800your day until you buy something. And in a weird way, knowing that, and obviously part of it was
02:44:16.920also growing up, it ruined Call of Duty for me because I knew, I knew that I wasn't playing
02:44:21.220other people i knew that the game wasn't what it said on the box so to speak and in a weird way i
02:44:27.160think that you're kind of right that like once once everyone is a bot it or everyone could be
02:44:34.860a bot in a weird way it kind of fundamentally changes the nature of the like the game quote
02:44:40.860unquote and while i'm not entirely sure it's to our advantage i i do think that it does at least
02:44:47.700hopefully break down this kind of like horrible parasocial relationship so many people are
02:44:53.460cultivating and maybe that's a vain hope but it's something that i've been thinking about
02:44:57.100well that's a very fascinating story you just gave because i think what i can extract from that
02:45:03.780is that we've already more or less crossed the rubicon on this and by that i mean it does at
02:45:09.500this point i don't even think it really matters if everyone or nobody is a bot enough people are
02:45:16.040aware and enough people are suspicious, the honeymoon's over. Like there's no way to unring
02:45:21.580this bell of AI. There's always going to be something in the back of our minds questioning
02:45:26.560our experience online. And for some people that might be higher, some people that might be lower,
02:45:32.940but I think things have inexorably changed. And people are pretty excited about AI. And I think
02:45:38.540the reason we bring this up, when confronted with a problem like this, typically many people
02:45:46.020People on the right will try and look for ways to turn the clock back or look for, hopefully, in their mind, a larger bell that can unring a smaller bell, which doesn't even make sense when you phrase it like that.
02:45:58.820You know, they're thinking, like, how can we undo this?
02:46:00.640Whereas, you know, people in our audience and many other audiences are thinking, OK, there's no going back.
02:46:07.200How can we utilize this technology or this movement for our benefit?
02:46:11.340because right now only the worst people in the world are trying to leverage it and so we try and
02:46:18.000encourage people to be like you know you can have a seat at this table that's what's exciting about
02:46:22.800ai even as as demonic as it might be there's a a window of opportunity right when these things0.65
02:46:31.160break right when this technology is emerging where it doesn't fucking matter how much money you have
02:46:36.540that the little guy can actually have a seat at the table and can understand this better than
02:46:41.620everyone else that's what social media was actually that's what every exciting technology
02:46:46.140was at the start and then it becomes shitty later but there there's a little bit of a wild west
02:46:51.120window i think we have right now it's going to be different than it was in the past with ai
02:46:55.560technologies because you know we don't really control them but i think there's a lot of
02:46:59.300opportunity for enterprising and ambitious dissidents or anyone on our side of things
02:47:04.960to imagine ways where, you know, this doesn't necessarily need to be an apocalypse or if it
02:47:11.540is an apocalypse, it could be our apocalypse. So do you think that this, this drives the normies
02:47:18.260back off the internet, you know, back to an era where, you know, you don't post your face,
02:47:22.180you don't post your name, you don't post your information, you know, away from kind of this,
02:47:25.620this era where you're incentivized to kind of give out as much of yourself as you can,
02:47:30.180or do you think that's kind of a vain hope? If it is, it will be us that drives them.
02:47:34.540because the thing about normies is and I hesitate to even use that term I don't really like it I
02:47:39.260don't I understand that the way we use it but I tend because I work in marketing so I tend to
02:47:46.060break down demographics a bit differently but the thing about regular people whatever you want to
02:47:52.120call them is they don't tend to do anything on their own ever not especially if we're talking
02:47:58.120about libs or mainstream conservatives they kind of go where they're directed to go so if they leave
02:48:03.040the internet it will be because our side either chased them off or lured them off but you know
02:48:09.060they're they're a large group that gets corralled easily and that can be good or that can be bad
02:48:15.840you know the mistake i think a lot of dissidents or vanguardists make is that they want everyone
02:48:24.620out there to be like us and they're not and they shouldn't be you know they they're the ones who
02:48:29.660make a most of society they're not the ones who take weird risks they're not the ones who like
02:48:35.040raise the stakes on esoteric shit they're not usually the rule makers or the rule breakers
02:48:42.300um so you know they will stay plugged into whatever the system is and if the system is like0.96
02:48:48.220give up your i mean craze go talk to these people and again another thing i'm not trying to be too
02:48:52.460hard on the right but a lot of people don't really interface much with the regular people out there
02:48:58.700they don't some of them don't even have jobs or whatever but once you talk these people uh the
02:49:03.860normies they're pretty on board with everything and if they're if they don't like it it's just
02:49:09.380hesitation but they for them to decouple from the system would be for them to separate from their
02:49:15.900entire world and the majority of people on earth aren't ready to do that and i actually wouldn't
02:49:20.840demand them to unless we had a viable alternative you know i can't tell people to get fired i can't
02:49:27.320tell people to rise up against the government uh most revolutions don't even do that they lie after
02:49:33.060and say that they did but they didn't really so um i i think the only way they will uncouple from
02:49:39.840the internet is if like we make it inhospitable for them or if you make it scary or weird or
02:49:45.900you know the things we complain the internet we complain about the internet is the thing they like
02:49:51.220about they like that's predictable they like that's boring studies show that your average person0.84
02:49:55.700simply revisits the same four to six websites every single day until they fucking die but that's0.53
02:50:03.080that's life what are you gonna do um so i that's a very roundabout question to be saying i don't0.91
02:50:09.140expect much but i also don't demand much um if they if they do what i want them to do it will
02:50:15.120because be because we succeeded at something but i i place faith in them to you know stand where
02:50:23.180the sun is shining, you know, and not kind of wander into the esoteric darkness like we do.
02:50:30.480So do either of you guys feel any sympathy for artists, right? Because if you've been on social
02:50:36.820media, and I'm not an avid user, but nonetheless, I have seen this kind of outcry of, you know,
02:50:41.560AI is destroying artists, pay artists, pay artists, you know, in kind of the similar shrieking tones
02:50:46.860to say, you know, sex work is real work, you should pay for that as well. Do you feel sympathy
02:50:51.840for these people because on one hand i kind of do like i get it but on the other hand there's a
02:50:55.920part of me that kind of enjoys the schadenfreude i guess well what do you think you you lead with
02:51:00.660this one judas because i know you have some ideas about this i'll say some stuff i know you have
02:51:04.120some thoughts as well yeah i mean i'm kind of torn because i'm um adjacent to that industry so i know
02:51:09.620i know a lot of artists i know a lot of people who are really really frightened right now um but
02:51:15.960But I think, like, you kind of risk becoming a luddite if you want to go there with it and say, like, no, the way that it's always been is the way that it always should be.
02:51:26.740Because in fairness, art has become a low-hanging fruit since the invention of the computer.
02:51:32.700So most of you today who call yourself artists would not have the tenacity or discipline to be an artist 30 years ago or even 20 years ago.
02:51:39.900You're an artist now because it was easy.
02:51:41.620I'm sorry, that's offensive, but that's the truth.
02:51:43.760and that that's why there's like every little small town has six graphic design agencies
02:51:47.940so uh i think there will be a culling and as unfortunate as it is that's just what happens
02:51:53.360with technological process or progress rather and i think um the the void i'll call it a void
02:52:00.820that ai art is filling um is valuable it is producing higher quality content rapidly and at
02:52:09.000a much lower cost. So it's good for people who are consumers of content. It's great for people
02:52:13.940who want to consume content. And in the long run, it may actually, like we're talking earlier about
02:52:19.880the shit testing of strangers in a chat or shit testing voice AI, you're going to start shit0.99
02:52:26.600testing, maybe internally only, but shit testing visual art. So you're going to start really asking1.00
02:52:31.700yourself, you know, is there a division or where do I draw the line between something that has real
02:52:36.380from an artistic standpoint and what is just uh you know window dressing what is just like big
02:52:43.380ai titties and what is something that really speaks to me and maybe there isn't a line for
02:52:47.760you but i think for a lot of people you're gonna have to start really examining your your your
02:52:53.580foundational principles uh and your beliefs as relates to art and you're gonna have to start
02:52:58.460saying you know this is why the painting on my wall that my grandfather got at a yard sale even
02:53:04.320though it's not the favorite style that i like it has more value to me than something that you know
02:53:10.240somebody did on mid-journey i don't know i think this is still developing i think there's going to
02:53:14.020be a thousand takes on this over the next year and i think that there's actually i think my final
02:53:19.460point would be there are much more important much more dangerous questions about ai generated visual
02:53:26.080art that have nothing to do with art as an industry and i'm kind of sick at this point already of
02:53:32.560hearing small artists complain about them losing their meager paychecks there's much more at stake
02:53:36.720than that so so i i want to jump in because that actually really quick just before we move on uh
02:53:44.260because this ends tonight is it pronounced luddite or luddite mr burden i've always assumed it's
02:53:52.580luddite exactly how do you you know what you said first of all how tell the people at home0.99
02:54:00.640tell the folks at home how do you say canard canard you asshole this is what i deal with1.00
02:54:08.800this is wrong i i i'm kind of tempted to kick you from this chat this is highly inappropriate0.97
02:54:14.940do it do it i've done it live before but since this is pre-recorded the bit won't be quite as
02:54:20.600funny yeah without me this chat would be really banal though he wouldn't want to do that
02:54:24.260ah every day every day with this uh i'll put it this way i i i take a somewhat uh middle eastern
02:54:32.880approach and that is uh uh state enforced uh punishment by banal banality uh anyway
02:54:39.760sorry i cut you off there so you continue sorry i derailed so but much like your point about
02:54:45.480about influencers right where you could say like well what realistically is the difference between
02:54:50.080this person as a you know a skin and blood individual and an ai you could kind of make
02:54:56.580the same point about art you know like how many how many people are there that essentially just
02:55:00.300draw it you know like regurgitated cal arts and kind of like a you know a slightly you know
02:55:05.980like altered style you know or how many people draw you know like sonic fetish porn you know
02:55:12.000in a way that is essentially legitimately and i is is completely you know incomprehensible
02:55:18.060or not incomprehensible is into you cannot you can't tell the difference between what they would
02:55:23.900do and you know what what mid-journey would put out well that's interesting because mid-journey
02:55:28.800is censored right so it's funny that after the only the only sectors left for real flesh and
02:55:35.120blood artists will be like sonic inflation porn and vor right because mid-journey can't produce
02:55:41.760that it can only produce good art so yeah the only thing that humans were gonna be able to do is
02:55:47.180any fetish porn that's related to hands yeah no but but that's a very interesting point and this
02:55:57.100is something we've um discussed on the show at length uh because we discuss our my my co-host
02:56:02.780judas he uh he went to a pretty prestigious art school and he's very good he'll deny this but
02:56:08.120he's a very very talented artist and he's got tales from being in the belly of that beast i
02:56:13.060believe. And I work in marketing. So I'm adjacent to an entire spectrum of hack graphic designers
02:56:19.260every single day. So, you know, we got scars on our K lines about this. But the problem that
02:56:28.040emerges, and I think this is a problem we can solve. And I want to stress that, that whenever
02:56:32.620I say things like this, I'm typically doing it from a position of positivity and hope that nothing
02:56:37.960i prescribe i think is beyond our reach so what i'm saying is ai is presenting a problem to human
02:56:46.060creative arts in that how can we outpace technology how can we outpace an inhuman mind
02:56:51.840and something emerged from that that will probably make a lot of people very upset at me but i don't
02:56:58.980care because i have enough love in my life but one of the things was that the question is judas
02:57:07.400had very very skillfully brought this up how much human context can be coded in that art for example
02:57:14.060that picture in your grandfather's house the painting that isn't your style but you understand
02:57:18.600the human context from which that is given value a human context theory of value let's get the
02:57:26.520marxists on board okay and so the question that artist is how can i outpace the high skill but
02:57:33.200low humanity and what's interesting what emerged from that that i think will frustrate people is
02:57:36.620that all that modern art that everyone hates about museums art museums that's probably the
02:57:44.280most human stuff because that is on the cutting edge that that art cannot be enjoyed in any way0.91
02:57:51.380other than the human context so when you go to these places you see like uh who's a shitty artist
02:57:56.840not jasper john but some other modern artist you know juice might have some names but it's oh it's0.60
02:58:02.200just a fucking four-year-old could do this but the value is the context of the story of who made0.73
02:58:08.560that plus the setting you're seeing it and plus the exchange that's happening between you trying0.99
02:58:14.380to understand that art like it's not about the art it is this human experience if that makes any
02:58:19.300sense my wife and i went to a gallery uh probably a month ago and it was this uh middle-aged japanese
02:58:26.640guy who had a math background and he had like the massive like four by eight foot just papers
02:58:33.260all like taped together on the wall and he had written and i guess like ballpoint pen and then
02:58:38.640alternating between pen and then like a fountain like an ink pen just uh like multiplication tables
02:58:44.480of different variables just over and over and over but when the multi-series of numbers would
02:58:48.920run out he would move on to the next one and then when you stand on the other side of the room the
02:58:53.520series and the density of fractions so that the density of the fractions which in within the cell
02:58:58.980on this graph paper and the locations of the series on the page created these really weird
02:59:03.860like contemporary abstract forms but they literally are just series of of like fractional
02:59:09.320calculations that he did with a calculator and wrote in pen on a giant sheet so like and
02:59:15.600i wouldn't even know what i'm looking at and i wouldn't be able to tell you that
02:59:19.180if i hadn't have read the bio on the way in and stood at it and and like talked to my wife about
02:59:24.240it for 10 minutes kind of scratching my head but like here i am talking to you guys about it
02:59:27.980and i remember the guy's face now even now talking about it so i mean this is not if if my if mid
02:59:34.120journey produced that i would think i would look for an error code because it's not there's no
02:59:38.960context at all so sorry i had myself muted so um what you and just that's a very very good point
02:59:47.680what we're really talking about and this is the problem that is presented to every not only every
02:59:52.820visual artist i don't want that it's every visual artist it's every writer it's every voice actor
02:59:59.400increasingly obviously um it's that asking and answering the question what is the human context
03:00:06.140that i can create with this art and i think what a lot of people are responding to negatively about
03:00:11.980you know oh what's the art we got now you know if you're an artist a graphic designer you're
03:00:16.800making furry porn because the human context of everything we create now is abhorrent the fact
03:00:23.100is that and that's in a way that's what we're responding to that nothing we create right now0.99
03:00:27.680is even good or positive it's all fucking fetish shit it's all sarcastic it's all ironic so0.98
03:00:35.760when we ask the question like what is the humanity we're coding into this like we don't even like0.99
03:00:40.640the humanity we're bringing to the table why is it that no right winger can write a story that is
03:00:45.780not dystopian why can we not write a story how many stories are i've said this before people are
03:00:51.800going to throw in tomatoes at the screen but like how many if i see another short story set in why0.93
03:00:57.400america i'm gonna blow my fucking brains out like no one is even capable of bringing any humanity0.94
03:01:03.120to the table that ought to occupy art and that's any any great art has that context so i think0.98
03:02:40.480Well, I think that you're onto something that art is contextual to a certain degree.
03:02:46.100And that there is art that art sort of makes sense in the context in which it was made.
03:02:51.960And I see something on the right that kind of rubs me the wrong way.
03:02:56.960And it's this kind of ghost dancing behavior.
03:03:00.500So by ghost dancing, I'm kind of referring to the Plains Indians, right?
03:03:05.360Who, as they were being pushed back, kind of would return to ever more elaborate religious rituals.
03:03:13.480And when I explained, you know, the thought behind it was essentially like, well, when we were, you know, when we were in charge, when we ruled the plains, this is what we did.
03:03:21.560So the way to get back there, to get back to us being on top is to just do the old thing more, you know, which is kind of, again, putting the cart before the horse to really, you know, add another layer of tortured metaphor.
03:03:31.720but and you sort of see it around the the around quote-unquote trad art you know around this kind
03:03:38.200of like thomas kincaid or like norman rockwell version of art which don't get me wrong it made
03:03:43.420sense in its context but but wishing to essentially well we will produce quote-unquote trad art and
03:03:49.680therefore produce a trad world i i think is is sort of backwards because at least there's some
03:03:55.120there's some degree of art which is descriptive right is reacting to something in the world
03:04:01.280at least from my perspective that's absolutely true and jesus i'll let you go in a second
03:04:07.640but this is something i've got a lot of words i put into in the past we'll try and summarize it
03:04:13.560um and i'll preface it by saying that you know when we say what i'm about to say i'm not anti
03:04:19.440trad and i don't i'm not anti-tradition i'm not anti-history i think historical literacy
03:04:24.140is probably the best thing we got going for us in this scene right now and i think there's a lot
03:04:29.980of great minds in our scene who are kind of parsing through history maybe even including
03:04:34.220ourselves but you know like the heavy hitters you know thomas 777 is big into this um so i think
03:04:39.820it's good to have a historical knowledge but you you pinpoint a real real problem we have which is
03:04:47.960that when p this is where the hyper reality comes in the simulacra where it's like yes you are0.76
03:04:52.580reproducing does anyone really feel anything when they see another fucking greco-roman meme with0.84
03:04:59.300with vaporwave over top no one no one feels anything so the problem is that we're pretty0.84
03:05:04.120good at making memes we're the best at making memes and the problem is that most of what we
03:05:08.940produce is elevating memes there's a lot of short stories that are just fleshed out green texts
03:05:15.040but it's lacking something it's lacking that uh the jouissance you know the the joie de vivre as
03:05:22.380many say um and it's and then we don't know what to do with that we're like don't you want to walk0.97
03:05:27.640with your wife through wheat field no no one fucking does if you say you do you're lying0.96
03:05:32.220you just i get that you hate the modern world but you can't lie and say you look at this0.99
03:05:37.640fucking stock photography that's all it is no one's taking these photographs for these memes0.97
03:05:43.000guys it's all stock photography that you're fawning over which is a very strange hyper real0.98
03:05:48.940thing to think of once you really start to consider it but if you want to try lifestyle
03:05:53.640if you want to if you want to get back to nature that's one thing but if you're saying like man i0.77
03:05:58.740wish i was a roman no you don't that that's that might as well be an alien species to where you
03:06:05.680are right now if you say you want to go back in time that means you don't understand history you0.63
03:06:11.600are ill-equipped psychologically biologically you can't live back then i'm so i don't care how many0.93
03:06:17.560fucking weight weights you've lift you know it's they're like a different species entirely0.96
03:06:22.540the different mindset and this is before we get into like the julian james breakdown of bicameral0.99
03:06:27.340mind stuff like your brain is shaped differently as well but looking backwards i i think we've
03:06:34.180been doing that long enough and again i i think there's a lot we can learn from the past there's
03:06:38.220a lot we can trawl out a lot of lessons a lot of values a lot of lifestyles however if you're
03:06:44.100always looking back you're you're making yourself easy to be oppressed that's all you're really
03:06:50.280doing you're not trying to utilize the tools to perhaps carve out a space for yourself in the
03:06:56.080future and that's really what we're talking about because and this is where the like this has0.96
03:07:00.540happened throughout history and every single fucking time these people have been steamrolled0.54
03:07:05.240by what they call progress it's not really progress it's just having us being in the game0.93
03:07:11.260and playing and not just shutting your ears to everything so i think people can start by being
03:07:16.500honest by saying like i i get that we like beauty i get that we like aesthetics and we can like it
03:07:21.700but really most of the backwards facing stuff that we kind of pass between each other like
03:07:27.900fucking trading cards i don't think most people feel that in their soul i i really don't um and
03:07:36.000people can push back on me as much as they want but i think what it triggers them to start imagining0.98
03:07:42.420things in their head, but I don't think the art is that evocative. Now, call me crazy. What do
03:07:49.540you think about that? So my idea is that the concept of the left can't meme is actually
03:07:59.380completely incorrect because I think that the right wins online meme culture, but the left
03:08:06.200wins cultural memes. So for instance, the idea is like the reason that a phrase like reverse
03:08:12.020racism exists is that essentially is a massively successful cultural meme that kind of just by
03:08:18.420saying that largely kind of at least you know in an effective sense kind of discredits your argument
03:08:23.940so i think that both the left and the right are engaged in memes so to speak but the right being
03:08:31.980kind of the weaker party in this is kind of engaging at you know kind of like these these
03:08:36.940memes which are you know more comedy focused that they are fun they're designed to kind of
03:08:40.740pull you away from a more powerful force. And whereas it's harder to say, well, okay, well,
03:08:47.080what is a left-wing meme in a comedic sense? Well, we can all think of the phrases like,
03:08:51.760hands up, don't shoot. You know, like, nevertheless, she persisted. And many of
03:08:55.780these have become kind of cringe, but the very powerful ones, you know, like, I'm trying to
03:09:00.760think, oh, yeah, like, say her name, things like that. You know, that, okay, maybe it's not quite
03:09:05.020as funny as, you know, as clown world, you know, or some kind of like pepo edit, you know, but
03:09:10.220nonetheless, they have a lot of power to them. That's true. It depends if you are defining
03:09:16.680meme in the classical sense, as in like the Richard Dawkins, like what is a meme? A meme
03:09:22.140is an ideological organism that propagates. So if we're kind of defining it that way,
03:09:28.640is any idea that propagates like a virus successfully, that's true. There might be a
03:09:33.360way to delineate between our memes, which tend to be more generative from the base. And then a lot
03:09:39.720of the leftist means which literally are just boardroom marketing rolled out by some think tank
03:09:44.900they operate a bit differently because you know the left and also depends how we define the left
03:09:50.180so uh you know when we spoke to uh spandrel recently you know he kind of pioneered that
03:09:55.860term bio leninism a great number of people edward dutton probably does this too define the left
03:10:01.620broadly is just this sort of you know the virus this by these misfits these biological dead ends
03:10:09.420that are just it's not even really an ideology it's not even really a group so if you define0.96
03:10:15.580like that that's one thing but if we want to say the left broadly as like shit libs and progressives0.95
03:10:22.860and and we just want to localize it to the the intelligent ones and forget all the spiteful0.97
03:10:28.680mutants and all that you know their memes i don't even think they do that many memes i think they
03:10:34.960just have like focus with chance they have chance but i don't think they can be but therein lies
03:10:39.860the strength that they don't make memes perhaps i've been coming around the idea that we're very
03:10:45.240good at memes and what are our memes well they're entertainment and nine times out of ten people on
03:10:50.700the right hate entertainment because it pacifies you it makes you docile it leads you down blind
03:10:56.500alleys that psychologically they shouldn't go through it's like yeah we're good at we're very
03:11:00.640very good at entertaining ourselves with memes we're good at spoofing we're good at you know0.96
03:11:06.080talking about the news and saying hey isn't that that gay thing's pretty gay and then we laugh
03:11:10.940and then nothing happens so there might be an argument to be that the left doesn't mean what
03:11:16.780the left and the progressives do this or at least the leftist strategists do is they create marketing
03:11:22.440plans and they create marching orders for their paid operatives and that kind of disseminates the
03:11:27.500public and what you're really seeing is it's two different strategies in action one is arguably
03:11:33.740more organic and one is inorganic and because it's inorganic that's why it keeps winning and
03:11:39.140that's one thing spandrel uh had said when i spoke to him i do think this is true that
03:11:43.320i think it's true to do i'm not sure but he said you know the left is essentially won every battle
03:11:48.300it's ever fought you know the reason we are the way that we are um in this sort of degenerative
03:11:54.100societies because they've more or less won every battle you can blame conservatives you can blame
03:11:59.100you know unfair circumstances but it's like i have to believe it's because they are playing a
03:12:04.460different game than we're playing and so it's not even really a meme war and perhaps it's the memes
03:12:10.500that kind of keep us going in circles but again that sounds a bit too blackpilling maybe what do
03:12:16.180you think about that so what i think and spandrel and a lot of the you know the original like nrx
03:12:22.560crowd are 100% right in this, is that one of their main contentions, you know, whether
03:12:26.620we mold bug or land or spandrel is that the left and the right are not, this is not a