Blood Satellite - Pseudcoiner Shorts Diamond Nanobot Suicide [＂canada doesnt believe this is hell is sacred＂]

00:00:00.000 as far back as i can remember i always wanted to be

00:00:07.760 blood satellite

00:00:18.260 everyone used to say fappin do people still say that we say fappin who's we my wife and i who

00:00:26.260 else is we i think why are you why are you talking about you masturbating so much with your

00:00:31.460 bethrode this is it well why are we talking about it right now it's funny man it's a joke

00:00:35.940 nobody actually masturbates do they so you're just

00:00:38.620 no one actually does this nobody does that anymore yeah

00:00:43.860 you want to touch a penis you fucking faggot i've never even touched a dick

00:00:50.340 there was a thing in the chat forget who was saying it we were talking about people being

00:00:58.820 laid off it was a fucking ted he's like uh you know all these guys talking about getting laid

00:01:04.800 you know a big that's what a big dick gets you and i was just laughing at you know being laid

00:01:10.880 off being a sexual colloquial like being sucked off i got laid off the other day

00:01:18.960 oh man i'm sorry no i just i seized on top of a woman

00:01:25.560 she pushed me over and uh always to describe an orgasm i just like

00:01:37.840 seizing on top of a woman getting perfectly still and tight

00:01:43.320 i forget who also said another thing in the chat that i was thinking about

00:01:48.960 for way too long because it has so many it's what we call a k-line you know we talked about k-lines

00:01:55.400 on the show before us but a memory that triggers i got a big fat k-line that got triggered the other

00:02:02.040 day when we were talking about horny asylums for the retarded yes we were talking about that i

00:02:10.740 remember that i don't know like it it even hearing that we're broaching the topic everyone wants to

00:02:18.340 know more would you like to know more who's saying no it's like so he was telling a story and i don't

00:02:25.960 have it in front of me so i'm going to be paraphrasing here obviously but he had a sister

00:02:31.380 or a cousin or someone who was working as a nurse or an orderly in a place where he would stick the

00:02:39.820 mentally what's the play word now i feel like deficient is worse than retarded but i want

00:02:46.080 yeah deficient yeah because retarded just means it's like delayed deficient means like now you

00:02:50.740 just don't have it don't try once he explained this it seems so obvious but he said that this

00:02:56.400 woman from his family it was common practice in this hospital to sexually satisfy the retarded men

00:03:05.480 um you know jerking them off right well here's the thing why is one of several questions

00:03:14.760 that spring to mind i mean it just explodes at possibilities like hold okay let's set a base

00:03:20.720 camp right here a why um because just this is where it intersects with my life my wife

00:03:28.900 prior to meeting me when she was in high school she would tutor retarded individuals with whatever

00:03:36.900 school work they were doing i hate to say it because this is very much a reddit point but

00:03:42.380 there's a lot of wisdom in that line from tropic thunder you don't go full retard

00:03:47.480 and that got appropriated to mean the opposite of what it meant in the movie like people say oh

00:03:54.780 you should never go full retard like you said a retarded thing no what it means is that you should

00:03:59.460 never depict mental retardation as it actually is in film which is ugly and not pleasant yeah

00:04:08.540 like the difference between Forrest Gump and I am Sam right which is true because there's a lot you

00:04:14.680 don't hear about uh you think there might be like delight and there they can be very very delightful

00:04:18.860 people especially people with down syndrome they could also be incredibly violent and she would

00:04:23.220 tell stories where they would hurl chairs across them like the their retard strength exists for a

00:04:27.740 reason like they can rip the fucking arms off your body like a goddamn chimp um and but it won't you

00:04:34.960 you always hear like oh their their minds are trapped as a 10 year old a 12 year old or whatever

00:04:40.480 but you always also hear that they love the ladies you know you'll hear that all these guys

00:04:47.100 answer them they love the ladies well what does that mean do they get horny do they what do they

00:04:51.280 understand sex do they want to have sex apparently the answer is yes apparently the answer is in this

00:04:57.240 hospital they're they're they're whacking off these retards left right and center uh to to

00:05:04.480 make them happy and they were given they were not told to do it by the the hospital staff of course

00:05:12.580 it'd be a class action lawsuit if they did yeah you can't but they they would say you know don't

00:05:17.340 you won't be reprimanded if you do it yeah just imagine imagine how much we all know that if you

00:05:22.980 don't they're going to get violent and try to rape you anyways well this is the question would

00:05:27.620 they pursue rape or how why not this we set up base camp this is one of the many questions you

00:05:33.820 have yeah would they do that why also my question is what i'm not trying to make this a gender thing

00:05:42.780 what is the split between male and female retards in these hospitals maybe it's a genetic thing i

00:05:50.700 my inclination is to say that there's more men than women based on nothing just that's where

00:05:55.880 my mind seems that way it seems that way because i'm trying to think are there women who are getting

00:06:03.600 into this because this is what they want because they are predatory woman alert i'll give you an

00:06:10.520 example so there is this case a famous case of coco the gorilla a lot of people might be aware

00:06:18.560 of coco the gorilla if you're not it's a famous sign language speaking grill they tried to teach

00:06:23.080 this gorilla to communicate with people to prove how intelligent apes are and this kind of older

00:06:29.400 female gorilla this was not made to the public until much later but it became clear that coco

00:06:37.880 like to see women's breasts it would make the sign to see breasts it would also grope for women's

00:06:45.140 breasts if women were in the room and so what do they do well they would make coco happy

00:06:50.800 because this is science and we fucking love science yeah do we not of course so they're

00:06:57.440 flashing this horny dyke gorilla whatever it wants on tap titty on tap and and and that kind

00:07:07.380 of comes out later but you know part of me is thinking okay this this must percolate through

00:07:12.760 the scientific community how many of these perverted bitches are getting into animal science

00:07:19.460 getting into ape behavioral therapy just so they can flash this gorilla is there a predatory angle

00:07:25.980 is this sexual assault is it sexual assault when it comes from a gorilla i ask you who is in the

00:07:32.220 power position here yeah well the grill is on the other side of the glass so there's almost like uh

00:07:38.040 yeah there's definitely there's something going on there they would be in the room they would be

00:07:41.820 kind of in a room with toys and everything i think they had a rapport some kind of relationship

00:07:46.700 really oh they're in their room with the that's fucking terrifying actually touch yeah well

00:07:50.700 oh yeah but maybe that's what they like maybe these sick women these sick titty women

00:07:58.340 there were these these titty women you hear about right damn getting in there taking advantage of

00:08:04.340 poor coco chick real chicken and egg situation right and then i asked you so how many of these

00:08:10.360 nurses let's say it's mostly men in this hospital this asylum for the retarded how many is when we

00:08:16.220 getting into it because they hear there's easy dick out there holy shit i i these are the

00:08:22.820 questions i had he did unfortunately he didn't have an answer for me i think you're jumping over

00:08:26.860 a big question though is uh how many of the nurses were actually women because in a retard hospital

00:08:32.460 in a retard hospital i have a i have a retarded cousin who actually is in a not my not my retarded

00:08:38.740 brother but he's not that retarded i have a retarded cousin who's so retarded that he he

00:08:43.580 mercilessly beats my aunt and uncle and he is actually in a in a hospital for the for the insane

00:08:49.240 the criminally retarded not cool he's not a criminal but that's he's probably not a criminal

00:08:53.540 just because they put him there he he's he has the the brain of like a six-year-old but he's like

00:08:57.820 25 um so and he's very violent uh anyways sweet guy otherwise but anyways um that hospital is

00:09:05.040 mostly staffed by men because they need to like this guy's like six four like you need to restrain

00:09:10.240 him if he uh if he starts going ape shit and he does often so i don't know how many women they're

00:09:15.540 because like look they might like the whacking if they're there but they might not like to get

00:09:19.660 raped by a six four retard which would also happen so it's probably a lot of male nurses

00:09:24.620 it's like the opening scene jurassic park he's the velociraptor he's bursting out from the cage

00:09:32.080 everyone's trying to wrangle him with the poles and everything and there's the one guy zooms in

00:09:37.900 mouth whack him off whack him off cross dissolve

00:09:47.080 well and this is the other thing how many of these guys i mean you know i'm not into all sorts of

00:09:57.720 penis science like some of these other guys out here in the dissident right right i'm trying to

00:10:03.160 think like you know what what is the physiognomy the phallusognomy like do you need you need a

00:10:09.760 man's grip um it's actually speaking of which we're gonna get the uh gay sex update out of the

00:10:16.700 way you know we got comments comments on our site comments on our videos and there's one guy and he

00:10:24.380 was really hammering me with this for a long time he's like where the fuck is gay sex update

00:10:30.160 i don't even remember a gay sex update i remember hearing it but i don't remember what it is

00:10:35.100 the joke was from the folks at home that on the right broadly we end up speaking about

00:10:42.160 lgbt issues and talking about what they've been up to oh yeah yeah and then we're joking it's like

00:10:48.720 what is the olympics this time what is every you know right wing you know podcast or show

00:10:53.920 turned into gay sex update so however i have a gay sex update in actual news and this was covered

00:11:04.420 very succinctly by devon stack of black pilled um so i won't retread it i would encourage people

00:11:13.460 to listen to that but apparently barack obama is like we all know this but he is a giant gay man

00:11:20.920 oh he's very gay according to his biographer the man who who told his story i'm looking at an

00:11:28.860 article right now in revolver obama biographer barack quote repeatedly fantasizes about making

00:11:34.500 love to men yeah one of the most striking things about dreams from my father barack's memoir

00:11:41.520 is the utter absence of women from the book i mean not just the three your girlfriends uh but

00:11:48.180 his mother too um now raised him any yes um anyone doing a biography wants to identify

00:11:57.700 and interview um all the important people in in your subject's life um alex mcnear

00:12:05.760 barack's first serious girlfriend genevieve cook uh his second in new york in the mid 80s and then

00:12:11.580 Sheila Yeager, with whom he lived for three years or so in Chicago.

00:12:16.620 So I went and spent a day or more with Alex, actually went to Australia, where Genevieve

00:12:24.760 lives, to spend several days with Genevieve.

00:12:28.000 Sheila had never been named before.

00:12:31.100 And again, we talked earlier about how incurious the journalism was, 2009, 2010, so Barack

00:12:40.000 is president.

00:12:40.560 So Alex let me read and take very detailed quotational notes from all those letters, but she redacted one paragraph, said it was too sensitive for while he was president, said it was about homosexuality.

00:12:59.560 um and then after rising star was published in 2017 uh it was announced that alex had sold

00:13:09.780 these letters uh to emory university because here's one thing there's there's two ways you

00:13:15.720 can go about this you can say oh my you know barack obama before he met michelle michael

00:13:21.740 Michael he he had a couple gay sex encounters but I it might be more gay if he just has written

00:13:30.900 evidence about how he thinks about gay sex all the time because you know you can't say that

00:13:37.300 that's a mistake you can't say that like he got too drunk or got too into the crack cocaine there's

00:13:43.760 also like stories about him getting there's this one guy that's a lot of people believe and I do

00:13:49.300 too about he's this sort of like jewish gay man who when obama was a senator he claimed that he

00:13:56.020 smoked crack with obama i saw like they were in a limo and he was like like uh huffing coke and

00:14:03.420 like sucking his dick in the back of a limo and he was senator i guess when he was senator not

00:14:08.140 president but still like that's that's him i mentioned i could use a line or two to wake up

00:14:13.820 Senator Obama asked me if I was referring to coke and I stated I was.

00:14:18.220 After stating I was Obama stated he could purchase cocaine for me and then made a

00:14:22.980 telephone call. This too was significant from a cell phone

00:14:26.980 to a presently unknown individual during which Senator Obama arranged the

00:14:31.300 cocaine purchase.

00:14:32.500 Senator Obama and I then departed the bar in my limousine and proceeded to an

00:14:37.140 unknown location

00:14:38.260 where Senator Obama exited the limousine with $250 which was provided to him by

00:14:43.180 me returned a short while later with an eight ball of cocaine which he gave to me i did ingest a

00:14:50.940 couple of lines of cocaine and shortly thereafter senator obama produced a glass cylinder pipe and

00:14:55.420 packet of crack cocaine from his pocket obama then smoked the crack cocaine i performed fellatio on

00:15:02.140 senator obama in the limousine during the time senator obama was smoking crack cocaine after

00:15:07.340 which i had the driver take me to my hotel the comfort suites gurney illinois even that

00:15:13.020 if i were a black man i would say oh barack obama's getting a blowjob he's not gay the other

00:15:18.460 guy's gay we have evidence of barack obama writing well this okay continue sorry but in this in the

00:15:26.620 same story barack the following day after the limo that fucking guy is just like doing his laundry

00:15:32.180 and the doorbell rings and it's barack obama okay he just says he just says suck my dick and then he

00:15:38.020 and then the and then he sucks his dick oh and brock brought coke he brought extra coke that time

00:15:43.060 okay so i'm pretty sure i'm pretty sure he's gay okay yeah he went back for more he went back for

00:15:49.920 yeah i guess what's so amusing is that the story that is being told that uh these women these exes

00:15:58.180 of him have these letters that according to the biographer seemed very robotic like a gay man

00:16:04.340 trying to write a love letter to a woman but then it repeatedly in these letters he mentions about

00:16:10.440 how he keeps thinking about gay sex which is a very funny thing to just say in a let say a letter

00:16:17.400 first of all a letter to your girlfriend you just keep talking about how you want to suck dick

00:16:23.020 yeah because you like you have to think about everything you say before you say it doesn't

00:16:26.800 slip out in this in an era of you know chat messaging even that could slip up no you're

00:16:33.140 writing in your best your cursive that's not like a cursive thing to say i guess it's just so funny

00:16:39.900 to me like this this is all the news you get right this is the the defining headline about

00:16:47.880 barack obama and i was thinking about that what's so interesting about obama and on our side we're

00:16:52.840 not fans of obama and we never have them but no i was stricken by the idea that every president

00:16:59.460 as their legacy goes on very few people hate them like i don't think any

00:17:04.460 that nixon right now has more adoration and acceptance than he ever had when he was president

00:17:10.260 there's a lot of diehard nixon fans out there right now i would i would more accurately

00:17:16.520 i would say they really hated him when he left and now there's a lot of fondness there's more

00:17:22.660 fondness than there was when he left same with george bush like people wanted to kill that guy

00:17:26.120 when he left and now it's like eh what you know he was an idiot but you know he's kind of a

00:17:30.780 sweetheart that's the thing george bush has a lot of people even form like liberals that are

00:17:36.440 misty-eyed thinking about george w bush and he's this strange old man that paints clowns now yeah

00:17:44.060 odd thing to do but like what i'm stricken by obama he's the guy you're supposed to love

00:17:50.220 but no one really remembers much about him like i swear to god obama's presidency for most liberals

00:17:57.460 is like a blank spot in their memory yeah and i encourage people to test this out like

00:18:02.680 go like do you remember barack obama do you remember his presidency like they it's wiped

00:18:07.120 in their mind it's like covid because i remember when obama was president and everyone would say

00:18:13.060 he's the cool president and i remember being at a work lunch and full of like white people a few

00:18:20.000 black people but a lot of white people love hick libs and that's rural liberals for people who

00:18:25.580 don't know canada's full of them um and i remember saying like you know barack obama isn't cool he's

00:18:30.620 kind of dorky and corny and he looked at me like i just was sawing my own dick off at the table

00:18:37.040 like it was an insane it never even occurred to them no one had even broached that subject before

00:18:44.920 that's insane um but like ask him like what are his policies that you like they're not going to

00:18:50.520 say anything like what's your favorite thing he did they won't say they don't know and what i find

00:18:56.240 is like his legacy has no it has no charge on it anymore but they keep but he's the president that

00:19:04.680 keeps shoving in front of your face like he's doing documentaries and hosting shows but like

00:19:08.940 no one likes him and all the news i'm getting about him is like what a weird gay man he was

00:19:14.540 yeah and i don't know like that just i i think that's i'm interested to see how his legacy

00:19:20.780 evolves because you know we could go deep on this and i might maybe i'll get thomas 777 on to go deep

00:19:28.300 on obama but because there's a lot to talk about how he's this manchurian candidate this weird

00:19:34.300 like dark horse that came out of nowhere like i think every conspiracy theory about him is probably

00:19:39.140 true yeah i actually not to blow it up but i think that i think the last four presidencies

00:19:44.560 have actually been really surreal like in the historical context of american presidencies

00:19:49.520 like i don't think you i don't think america has had like a real authentic democratic president

00:19:56.240 that was that what i mean is like not that they were elected legitimately because none of them

00:19:59.720 are but like that they were even a leader that they weren't just some fucking off since like

00:20:04.720 probably the early 90s you know i even even clinton clinton was it kind of fucked up but i

00:20:10.600 think clinton probably was somewhat authentic but like bush obama trump biden are all like weird

00:20:17.340 fucking like none of them should have been there in a historical talk they're all so fucking strange

00:20:22.040 man see um there's this article is reading and this is a common thing people know about in our

00:20:29.400 seen but i was reading about how like 70 percent of music sales are for old songs like songs from

00:20:37.040 the 70s and the 60s and the 80s and that most new music doesn't really account for much music sales

00:20:43.620 really even like the big hits they don't really have a lot of staying power and i think biden was

00:20:50.060 that like biden was like an old rolling stone song that they elected he kind of reminds people

00:20:56.380 of when america made real music like he's a throwback to like when they think like he's like

00:21:02.520 the last politician that seemed like a politician because they remember bines been there forever

00:21:06.540 you know that all these boomers they're sticking around because they're familiar but no one

00:21:11.040 new is really moving the lead the needle on anything like who who what's a young politician

00:21:17.980 that anyone's interested in like all anyone cares about is like rfk jr and he looks like it would

00:21:22.900 he like 70 yeah he's a fucking op he came out of nowhere he's clearly manufactured to just steal

00:21:28.180 all the right wings points and defuse us but like there are there i don't know the left because i

00:21:32.580 don't follow them but there's plenty of like i think young-ish like 50s uh congressmen and

00:21:38.540 senators who are probably i don't think they'd be great leaders but i think they're being groomed to

00:21:43.340 be leaders so yeah like dan crenshaw i was about to say cool guys like whatever whatever happened

00:21:50.140 to these from fucking louisiana uh it was like four or five years ago um fuck i can't remember

00:21:55.180 his name uh blonde hair he's from like new orleans or something there's anyways i fucking love that

00:22:00.740 guy i can't remember his name no he's a senator but uh who's and then fucking desantis that faggot

00:22:05.300 but i mean he's definitely being groomed well kind of speaking of i guess we'll get into this

00:22:12.080 now really quick because this is i think this will still be relevant by the time this comes out

00:22:17.520 but have you heard that oliver anthony song uh rich man yeah yeah yeah north of richmond

00:22:25.480 and i kind of we just talked about the other one to try that in a small town the other day i was

00:22:29.280 making fun of it this one i actually genuinely really liked it fucking slaps and i also agree

00:22:34.660 with the lyrics so it's like this is a good

00:22:36.220 living in the new world with an old soul

00:22:44.000 these rich men or the rich men lord knows it all

00:22:49.760 just want to have total control

00:22:52.540 want to know what you think want to know what you do

00:22:56.680 and they don't think you know but they know that you do

00:23:00.620 cause your dollar ain't shit and it's taxed to no end

00:23:04.400 of the rich man of the rich man

00:23:08.480 yeah it kind of touches on what you're saying about where's that sort of

00:23:15.040 youthful energy coming and just remind me of that and there's we've given it a few days

00:23:21.100 since it came out and as that song was going viral i saw all manner of takes i saw japanese

00:23:27.960 fan spreading of takes and i wanted to hold off because you know i didn't want to get too excited

00:23:35.360 about it because i heard the song and the song is good he's a good singer and he seems talented

00:23:42.340 uh it's not really my type of song like a lot of people are like this is the new anthem you know

00:23:48.320 i'm just a weird old fucking canadian guy who likes you know fucking soundcloud rappers and

00:23:54.760 shit i get it it's not for me but i understand that it is a good song um and a lot of i heard

00:24:01.940 some takes that are like you know this is this is the new thing uh there was one lyric that gave me

00:24:09.300 pause and i'm gonna say that i don't think it damns the song but it did i want to bring this

00:24:17.120 by you because i was talking about this on twitter i made a tweet about this and some people were

00:24:20.880 pushing back on me but he has a lyric and it's like i wish politicians cared more for minors

00:24:31.320 and not so much about minors on an island somewhere right that's the lyric oh wait really

00:24:39.900 i didn't catch that yeah replay that and i looked at the lyric and i could kind of see two different

00:24:45.920 interpretations there and a lot of people were giving him the benefit of the doubt by saying

00:24:50.040 like oh he's accusing politicians he's basically calling them pedophiles like i wish you cared

00:24:56.420 about more with these miners and those miners but i'm like it sounds here's what i think it is

00:25:00.940 it sounds to me like he he politicians should care more about the employment of miners men who

00:25:09.140 are in mines than caring about the epstein scandal not that they're perpetrators but they care too

00:25:15.920 much about this sort of elite stuff like it's not real it's a conspiracy that's how i interpret it

00:25:23.640 i've gone back and forth with some people and and some people like oh he's right like what who cares

00:25:29.520 about the epstein thing i'm like well on the other hand the entire song is about elites he mentions

00:25:35.920 elites elite cosmic he's talking about cosmopolitan elites and my position was well that is the

00:25:43.900 behavior of the elites the behavior of the elites is that they're raping your children like that

00:25:50.460 should be top of the list now also but you know who what am i going to say fuck him no i am however

00:25:58.740 saying that that lyric gave me pause and some people were coming out and they're saying you

00:26:06.340 know what this guy's going to turn out to be a hicklib like i said a hicklib is a liberal who

00:26:11.480 in dressed in rural attire and everything like he's going to be and you see again you see them

00:26:16.840 all over canada and i was like damn it i hope they don't i hope they don't get their hooks in

00:26:21.180 this guy yeah he kind of came out of nowhere i hope they don't try and make him into like that

00:26:27.760 you know down in richmond you know we don't let the cosmopolitan elites dictate their gender

00:26:34.500 binaries you know like i'm like oh damn i hope he doesn't do that but then you know i learned

00:26:41.200 two things about this guy he made a public appearance performing his song to like wow

00:26:46.940 fucking a thousand people right and he's up there just quoting the bible about how you know the

00:26:54.340 wicked will be cleansed and shit yeah yeah yeah the wicked plot against the righteous and gnash

00:27:01.240 their teeth at them but the lord laughs at the wicked for he knows their day is coming

00:27:06.040 the wicked draw the sword and bend the bow to bring down the poor and needy to slay those whose

00:27:13.580 ways are upright but their swords will pierce their own hearts and their bows will be broken

00:27:19.700 better the little that have righteousness than the wealth of many wicked for the power of the

00:27:27.580 wicked will be broken but the lord upholds the righteous i said damn i said yup

00:27:35.480 i said okay then it turns out some some journalist some twitter guy finds uh oliver anthony's

00:27:47.520 youtube channel and finds a playlist of videos that he likes it's all about how jews did 9-11

00:27:55.060 it's all conspiracy shit it's all like like our and i realize that this guy far from being

00:28:04.260 a HickLib, far from

00:28:06.200 being a compromised

00:28:07.880 agent of the

00:28:10.060 system, he is two

00:28:12.000 steps away from being a Blood Satellite Paywall

00:28:14.160 subscriber.

00:28:19.520 You should contact him. Send him a link.

00:28:22.280 I think I might

00:28:26.020 adopt him. I was going to say,

00:28:28.020 and I don't want to criticize this guy because I

00:28:29.940 really, really like... Look, I don't fucking know

00:28:32.040 anything about him. We're all just meeting this guy for the first

00:28:33.920 time here on the internet but I do really like him but a couple of things that struck me right

00:28:38.940 away because I've spent you know kind of some of my background my childhood I spent a lot of time

00:28:43.340 around recording artists and musicians and songwriters and he's not he doesn't strike me

00:28:49.280 as somebody who writes a lot of he writes a lot of songs he writes a lot of songs but he doesn't

00:28:54.580 spend a lot of time on the songs that he writes he writes stuff passionately from the heart and

00:28:59.000 then he sings it the next night he see if it sees if it lands and then he writes something else for

00:29:02.600 the following weekend i think that's what the song is i would not like this is not something

00:29:06.900 that's been poured over by a production team so i think there's just some really like awkward

00:29:12.920 phrasing in the lyrics and that's literally all that that was he's i he's almost certainly talking

00:29:18.140 about epstein it's just the way that it's phrased is kind of like a weird way to phrase it there's

00:29:22.460 some other stuff in there too about like the the lime about inflation not that i'm disagreeing with

00:29:26.780 it but like the way that it's phrased is kind of an awkward way to write a verse so i i don't think

00:29:31.960 that that's because he's bad it's just because i don't think he he didn't think this was going to

00:29:35.180 blow up this is just the kind of shit that he writes and he writes it because he's us right

00:29:39.100 he just sits around and writes you know epstein didn't kill himself and then sings it at the bar

00:29:43.580 and now he's on tiktok so that's fucking great i agree i i've convinced me because there's also

00:29:50.380 a lyric in there that is kind of awkward too but it says it's the one another one that people are

00:29:56.400 taking exception to it says if you're five foot three and you're 300 pounds taxes ought not to

00:30:02.240 pay for your taxes ought not to pay for your bags of fudge rounds i love that which is funny

00:30:10.280 but it's not like it's a clumsy it's a strange rhyme right yeah no no it's not a good rhyme

00:30:16.320 it's not a good verse but again i i don't think this was like he didn't pour over this all night

00:30:22.000 and like rewrite it i think he sat down drinking alone or with his buddy and he wrote this out a

00:30:27.720 couple of times and then he sang it and people like shit that's good and they recorded it that's

00:30:31.760 how shit goes viral right well the life we've been given and the way we've been living just a song

00:30:42.200 that we write till we die now some people write songs on living just right

00:30:51.800 But I write mine home just getting by.

00:30:57.240 I'll go on to win, start writing the hymn that sounds so sweet.

00:31:08.240 But the troubles and the sin of the world that we're in knock me back off my feet.

00:31:16.940 well and also people were trying to get on his ass i saw a couple people um some of these guys

00:31:26.220 they're trying to poke holes in this whole thing they're like oh you saw this viral hit that's

00:31:30.500 being adopted by the conservatives adopted by all the maga people right the charlie kirks of the

00:31:36.220 world the matt walshes are in love with this song and there's people on our side who just hate it

00:31:41.400 for that reason so like oh this viral hit well guess what it wasn't so organic was it because

00:31:48.360 it turns out like they're trying to sell you a story about how this guy like he it's a viral

00:31:56.680 hit because like a marketing team promoted or is paid to go viral on one hand everything is

00:32:05.120 like that's how this works like yes by the time you see it it's already been that way for a week

00:32:10.580 he like you said he had to pay to get a good camera and good recording like it's a good video

00:32:17.160 it's a well-produced video that just doesn't fall out of the fucking sky

00:32:21.160 you probably got like studio time to get it set up like there was some polish put into this

00:32:27.500 and then people like there's this thing this sort of lingering populism on our side that thinks that

00:32:33.220 anything that gets popular it should be done organically when in fact nothing is ever done

00:32:38.880 organically nothing nothing is done organically it's done because you put this it's just like

00:32:44.400 how it was back in the djs you put it in the hands of the right dj you put it in the hands

00:32:48.980 of the right influencer it got put out there that's the only way we hear about it that's how

00:32:54.440 anyone hears about fucking anything if you think it's not go make the best song in the world

00:33:00.060 spend a million dollars recording a song right now and put it on youtube and watch get five

00:33:05.600 fucking views that's how it works like you need to work and so the fact that maybe someone who

00:33:13.080 knows what the fuck they're doing kind of convinced him to play the game doesn't make

00:33:18.040 it inauthentic it doesn't make it a lie it doesn't make it you know less like he doesn't believe

00:33:25.840 those words any less and i guess that's where i'm going to bat for him like people on our side

00:33:30.600 they think we just you know at the end of the day it's kind of silly that we're even talking

00:33:34.420 about it but i'm like it's a fucking song it's a song that seems cool it's a it's a nice ditty

00:33:41.580 and it's it spawned a lot of argument and discussion on our side so i mean that's i

00:33:45.500 think that's one of the reasons to to bring it up there's a lot of critique of him and the the

00:33:50.660 without getting into anything else it's like why like forget all that bullshit forget all the

00:33:55.900 the memes about him being fake or about what the lyrics possibly mean like can you just take a w

00:34:02.160 fucking once and step back and realize that this is blowing up and it's something that if you just

00:34:08.220 again leave the bullshit out of it for a minute you can broadly agree with everything this guy's

00:34:13.120 saying and it is all over tiktok which is kind of a hard platform for us to penetrate so it's good

00:34:18.480 you know it's fucking good 90 even if you disagree with a little bit of it you want to pick you want

00:34:22.840 to quibble about one of the lyrics fine but like generally speaking he's you know he's talking about

00:34:27.240 white people also it's a you know what's the headline here the headline is viral sensation

00:34:33.260 you know like it's an anti-elite pro-white song and the distant right is at each other's throats

00:34:39.260 about it right why we have we have dissident right who are pro-white and we have dissident

00:34:45.980 right who are pro-elite or is that too on the nose oh we're not talking about anybody we're not

00:34:52.660 talk like yeah although i will say like richard spencer doesn't kind of i think richard spencer

00:34:58.060 lives in a world where he knows who richard spencer is and so he's like yeah fuck this

00:35:03.660 song here's my song he's posted some gay bullshit yes that was funny actually

00:35:08.100 like yeah you know what fuck this guy

00:35:36.100 everyone listen to Depeche Mode okay okay fucker all right all right Dickie okay

00:35:44.320 he listened to Spencer Putty he knows where he knows where his bread is buttered yes he does

00:35:54.600 speaking of which just on the topic of maybe I'm weaving a through line for the rest of the episode

00:36:00.360 here but another thing that I wanted to ask you about this I didn't get a chance to so when

00:36:06.080 to ask you now did you hear about this again viral video uh that was making the rounds and it was

00:36:14.680 this uh white woman who was it's a it's a tiktok video that's anti-marriage it shows this white

00:36:24.620 woman the pov is of the man offering a ring to this woman and she's going to put her finger in

00:36:31.440 and then the her life flashes before her eyes and so she flashes to a scene of her scrubbing dishes

00:36:36.720 and she pulls back she's like what and then she and set to music and it's set to be all kinetic

00:36:42.480 i feel like i saw that like a year ago but not recently this one was is a blonde girl maybe well

00:36:47.720 here's the thing maybe there's more than one and then there's another cut and another kind of shows

00:36:52.160 her her life as a married woman and it's just drudgery it's cleaning it's it's hell and then

00:36:58.280 it ends with her turning down the ring and it's very very popular and it's a white white blonde

00:37:04.840 woman everyone's like oh man that's that's interesting and then people started to look at

00:37:09.360 it and say this seems chinese and people started noticing that if you pause on the images of her

00:37:19.620 in her apartment doing the cleaning all of the first of all the apartment itself doesn't look

00:37:24.820 western and i'm sure you live in china so you know that chinese apartments have a certain look

00:37:29.720 to them they do they're very distinctive yeah you i would be i haven't seen this recent video but

00:37:34.780 i'd be able to spot it i think yeah and then they notice that there's an image of her like cooking

00:37:39.260 and sweating and the bottle of oil she's using has chinese characters on it so everyone is like

00:37:46.040 oh my god this is literally this is what they talk about this is a chinese psyop promoting

00:37:51.320 white women don't get married and it was on tiktok right yeah very very big and then this led to

00:37:58.260 some people were saying this was made by ai right and it actually doesn't they keep saying that i've

00:38:04.680 heard that so many times lately about tiktok videos and it's like now that you know ai exists

00:38:09.020 you think everything's a video is still fucking hard to do by ai and it's just it's very often

00:38:13.780 the stuff they're saying about it being ai isn't ai it's just that it's fabricated through like

00:38:18.580 video editing and it's sloppy and the sloppiness makes it look kind of like ai so well then the

00:38:24.760 thing is like i started you know it doesn't need to be computer generated because they found the

00:38:28.820 girl in it and she's got all they found her social media profiles and they found that she lives in

00:38:36.220 china and she is what they would call i'm sure you've heard about this maybe you can speak to

00:38:40.540 a white monkey a white monkey you know tell the folks at home what a white monkey is a white

00:38:45.860 monkey is a person who gets employed usually at like 20 or 30 above minimum wage to do nothing

00:38:52.680 jobs essentially to be a white person so you might be hired to come to a board meeting and nod

00:38:57.200 you might be hired to stand in a shop and pretend like you're a customer so that chinese people will

00:39:02.200 think a white person shops there might be hired as an extra in a commercial just again to stand

00:39:07.960 in the room because they need a white face that's a white monkey literally it's imagine you're a

00:39:12.140 monkey in a cage you don't have to do anything you have to be there and go that's a white monkey

00:39:16.580 job you know what i let me just say this i sent you a link in the chat here um unfortunately the

00:39:24.540 the closest link i could find is on louderwithcrowder.com is that the video that the

00:39:29.200 clips from the video yeah that's china could you i can immediately tell the fucking the railing in

00:39:33.740 the background look at the railing the concrete railing that's the quintessential chinese railing

00:39:39.320 in like their public works and then of course the river it isn't a river it's full of fucking

00:39:43.300 reeds and there's no water in it because their entire like anyway it's a whole other thing but

00:39:48.400 yeah i want you to i want you no i want you to go through this photo if you can is there anything

00:39:53.880 else i would indicate that this is china i see some of their umbrellas okay how many there's two

00:39:59.220 umbrellas in that scene there's also look at the railing in the background upper left you have you

00:40:04.060 have like um waxy deciduous trees and you have a reddish uh umbrella sorry the railing you have a

00:40:10.240 reddish uh railing in the upper left and you can see a tile terracotta roof it's so chinese

00:40:14.320 it's so fucking chinese even the other thing look at the sky look at the sky it is gray flat gray

00:40:22.300 and you can't see more than a thousand yards and then it's just it's not fog that's just what the

00:40:28.620 air looks like in china yeah it's chinese china really does look partially rendered doesn't it

00:40:33.740 oh yeah China is surreal like if you haven't been to mainland China it I mean everybody should go

00:40:39.560 once just to understand why we need to nuke China and if you scroll down the page again it's a

00:40:45.960 louder with Crowder.com it'll probably be what people stumble across but like you can scroll

00:40:52.460 down and see like her profile and also if you look this is what tipped me off originally if you look

00:40:58.500 at her mannerisms and her face she seems to be behaving in the way that a asian person would

00:41:04.640 want a white person to behave which is like like a mind like a silent film oh yeah yeah like really

00:41:10.540 exaggerated anime thing go watch go watch chinese tiktok they all chinese tiktok go watch chinese

00:41:16.600 television like their their mainstream television shows or like we watched them their soap operas

00:41:21.660 and not even even like the crime dramas and like the cop shows and shit are like that

00:41:25.920 where everything is massively overacted to the point that it's you question the sanity of the

00:41:31.220 people that watch it it's so fucking bad it's all like that like imagine law and order but every

00:41:37.080 single time they go in they're like whipping their head left and right like anime like that's

00:41:43.440 actually their television it's wild i just thought i was like like i thought my racism was so terminal

00:41:50.940 that i looked at that i'm like maybe i'm watching this wrong but i would see clips from tv i'm like

00:41:56.160 this seems so over the top are it like is it making fun of the viewer or do they actually

00:42:02.080 think this is good they think it's good they think it's good yeah they just because also

00:42:07.020 i kind of know what you're talking about because i won't say his name but i think you and i were

00:42:12.820 aware of a kid in high school i'll just believe his name oh fuck yeah so we knew a white guy who

00:42:20.720 took it upon himself to behave like an anime character and he wasn't a fat weed he wasn't

00:42:25.960 like a fat schlubby like he was kind of scary he was decently sized and quite fit i think he did

00:42:31.740 rugby or something yeah like he was a cool looking like he looked kind of like separa from final

00:42:36.320 fantasy 7 i thought like his face they had distinguished face but he did this amazing like

00:42:41.380 he would come to school and i guess anyone who knows anime is going to know what i'm talking

00:42:46.440 about but he would have like do you think where his his jacket's just draped over his shoulders

00:42:50.780 and he would always be doing these arm things like throwing his arm back and going what it

00:42:56.780 sounds so supremely autistic now but back then we didn't have a name for it but but it worked with

00:43:03.720 him too like well not really he was a loser who was bullied relentlessly but he was one of our

00:43:09.480 he was one of our friends so i mean it worked for us this is how outside of the matrix i was at the

00:43:14.960 time i looked at this guy i'm like man this guy's got something something cool going on over here

00:43:19.300 oh no no no no and at one time i don't know if i told you this he just gave me sword fighting

00:43:26.140 lessons because he would have all these tall tales and only in hindsight because you know

00:43:32.560 when you're a kid you don't know what it's like to encounter someone who just bullshits

00:43:36.880 like they lie like they breathe you would think like well some of this has got to be true

00:43:41.940 but he would tell stories about how he was like a championship

00:43:45.220 bokken fighter where he would like go to these sparring and like sword fight wooden swords

00:43:53.200 and i don't maybe he did he tried to teach me some sword fighting stuff but all he ever taught

00:43:59.040 me was how to like holster the sword like he never taught me any skills it was like okay when

00:44:05.300 you put it down you flick it and you go by the side it's something he saw in a film probably

00:44:13.000 yeah yeah it's it's like you know if you're teaching someone martial art and the only thing

00:44:17.780 you teach them is how to like put your hands in the praying position and look serious like you're

00:44:23.480 about to kick someone's ass and that's that's all he teaches you sometimes i mean that's 50

00:44:28.900 percent of it is showing up you know so that's that's all right that's something 50 percent of

00:44:33.640 being asian is also that yeah 50 of being an asian guy is doing that pose i just described

00:44:41.020 and then like throwing your arm back and leaves circle around you in in a job interview yeah yeah

00:44:49.200 that's how they reproduce i'm not going to get off on another how asian guys have sex again we

00:44:54.040 did a whole we've done a whole series back and run forward run forward into the vagina and they

00:45:01.760 shrink as they do they shrink even more they turn into a sperm and then their eyes turn

00:45:13.120 those anime crying eyes all the way you said you weren't gonna go into it but here we are

00:45:17.120 i know i i said i wouldn't and then i did it so i don't know if people at home could tell

00:45:25.940 when i we joined together and we started the show but i've been seething kill yourself i want to

00:45:34.400 talk about this i don't know how long i'm going to spend on this but i've been thinking about it

00:45:38.880 all day and we've kind of talked about this before on the show but i felt like i need to clarify

00:45:46.080 myself and i had a series of points i made today and i'd like to make them now and they might come

00:45:52.600 across as meandering and there may be points where people want to stop the show and contact me

00:45:59.640 and set me straight but it also has to do with some stuff you were talking we've kind of been

00:46:03.940 having like a three-day argument but not with each other but like side by side like we're back

00:46:11.700 to back and we're doing gun katas we had a whole fucking army of we've been zog zords john john

00:46:18.660 wick for in the chat i'm the i'm the blind chinese i'm the blind chinese guy okay i'm the uh you're

00:46:26.900 the black guy i'm the black guy neither of us are john wick um so i was making a point i'm going to

00:46:35.760 make the point here so it actually and i'm going to start the beginning so one thing i was saying

00:46:41.760 was that in our scene there's a lot of like new savagery and i mean new in the way it's supposed

00:46:50.380 to be said and you new savagery new masculinity and i'm referring mainly to sort of like the

00:46:57.400 bronze age pervert type guys and a lot of like not just him but also like the fitness grifters

00:47:04.800 the guys who are selling you an aesthetic and a story of masculine savagery and stuff like that

00:47:09.780 And I, something had occurred to me and people are free to correct me, but it seems that the only people out there are, who are really taking fitness seriously and have been since the fucking nineties seem to be the like fascists, uh, like the gym bros, like the gym, like the guys who are in bodybuilding forums, guys who hit the gym constantly, they're far right fascist guys.

00:47:38.000 originally i said nazis um but it could just be guys who are in like hitler's top guys

00:47:44.180 and one thing i noticed was i'm like once all of these new savagery guys fall away

00:47:51.340 it's still gonna be this same subset of guys like they are the bedrock it seems to me that

00:47:58.420 the fitness community on the right is built off of um and it seems to me that most of the

00:48:06.400 advocates of people i've said this before but a lot of the advocates the diehard fans of someone

00:48:12.540 like bronze age pervert and bronze age perverts about you know like being being a real man in

00:48:17.440 opposition to the long house and you must rediscover your savagery you must rediscover

00:48:21.400 this savage masculinity and it seems to me that the some of the biggest advocates that i see of

00:48:28.060 that tend to be gay men and women and out of shape nerds and I'm not trying to say anyone in

00:48:38.280 particular but I think you know some of Bronze Age Forever's biggest fans are do not look like

00:48:46.120 they go to the gym it does not look like they fight where and the people who actually do just

00:48:51.620 go to the gym are the ones that a lot of these these new guys are trying to divert you from

00:48:56.960 but it just seems to me that that the the online far-right fitness fascist community predates

00:49:04.060 bronze age pervert it predates a lot of these new trendy fitness guys and it's gonna be there

00:49:10.440 when they bra and and liver king and all these fags yeah yeah and liver exactly there's so many

00:49:15.620 outright scammers out there soul bra especially the guy who's telling you to sun your balls

00:49:20.340 it's going to kill your sperm count by the way don't do it yeah um and and here's the phrase

00:49:26.260 that i said just in case this is sort of a meandering point what i was saying was using

00:49:30.940 bronze age pervert as an example he in i'm not going to drill down into this but he is

00:49:35.980 a homosexual jew yeah that is that's a gay jew that's been proven and he does not look like that

00:49:43.720 guy when bronze age pervert has to select a avatar he selects the image of an arian ubermensch

00:49:53.400 he selects a white ripped blonde man and so what i am saying is that drive to become the

00:50:02.500 airing superman predates these guys they are the ones who are appropriating that imagery

00:50:08.480 so who are the people who are that imagery who are the airing supermen they're the fucking nazis

00:50:14.280 at the gym and that's all i was saying with that and then but there's something

00:50:18.580 then i started thinking like but but what is you know bronze age what are these guys selling

00:50:24.080 when they're selling savagery because it's not just fitness it's not just aesthetics it's like

00:50:28.480 you need to be a more unreasonable and violent man you must reclaim your masculine violence

00:50:36.180 because and there's a lot about the bronze age mindset that is sensible but i don't think it's

00:50:42.280 wholly original it's just anti-feminism they just kind of have a new packaging for it however

00:50:48.100 what he's saying is like you have been over socialized you have been feminized a lot of

00:50:54.400 the framework that you're operating in is a feminine framework you must reclaim a masculine

00:50:58.300 framework which is more regimented but it's also more unreasonable it's more violent and got me

00:51:04.060 thinking it's like well really what's interesting and i see this across the board is men are trying

00:51:10.600 to essentially figure out how to be more violent or they're trying to reclaim violence in some way

00:51:16.920 that is a desire inside men and just and i looked at guys like even in the mig tao sphere and we

00:51:24.600 look everyone complains about andrew tate well and i don't like andrew tate but andrew tate is

00:51:29.560 just the latest out you know archetype of someone who must always be there which is i'm going to

00:51:36.760 teach young men how to reclaim that masculine energy and his is just like be an asshole to

00:51:41.520 women and honestly they're teaching you to get right up to the line of rape as close as possible

00:51:46.940 that is what they're teaching young men and people say oh he's trying to brainwash young men i'm i'm

00:51:52.720 saying no i think that's what guys want like there's something in guys where we feel like

00:51:58.000 marriage has failed us relationships have failed us we're trying to go back to the baseline of what

00:52:02.280 do we want i want to fuck women i'm not going to apologize for it anymore i'm looking for someone

00:52:06.580 to give me the green light to be a savage asshole and maybe it's not being done properly by the

00:52:13.320 adherence of these things but there's something there that is being tapped into and perhaps

00:52:19.940 diverted and that led to what we were discussing in the chat where the topic generally was violence

00:52:27.980 and the value of violence and the persistence of violence even in the modern world and again

00:52:35.660 I apologize I'm all over the place but on this show one of the things we always come back to

00:52:42.960 is that we are trying to find a solution maybe not necessarily a political solution but some

00:52:50.540 kind of social solution that will make widespread violence not the automatic results of what we're

00:52:59.500 doing of the problems presented to the modern man because you know there's a lot of men out there

00:53:06.860 who are right on the edge of committing insane violence right now it seems and where i was trying

00:53:13.440 to think like if if you don't find a political solution to assuage these fears or these economic

00:53:20.420 circumstances you're gonna you're going to have mass violence we actually don't want mass violence

00:53:24.580 But it seems like when the argument I was making was it seems obvious to me that violence is politically effective.

00:53:35.840 And you can hear the room hush when you say that because you're not supposed to say that, especially not on a podcast, especially not online where it could get screen grabbed against you.

00:53:46.520 But I'm like, if I am a just a regular citizen, it seems obvious to me that violence is effective.

00:53:54.580 You're talking about a historical precedent for political action and change over a thousand years.

00:54:02.800 Yeah.

00:54:03.000 If you just want to be serious, you want to be serious about it and you have a movement and you're trying to affect something.

00:54:08.260 Violent has historically been, violence has historically been very, very effective.

00:54:12.920 Not always effective.

00:54:13.840 Sometimes it fails, but it also very often works.

00:54:17.760 People say, oh, like the French Revolution.

00:54:20.500 Yes.

00:54:20.860 But also, how about union riots?

00:54:23.040 go look at the history of unions in the united states look at the absolute fucking chaos that

00:54:28.780 average like union riot caused like there was like 40 guys who had died during one of those

00:54:32.760 cops again their arms and legs ripped off right there's that then there's black lives matter of

00:54:37.780 course that springs to mind but there's also also the the nation of these united states of america

00:54:44.120 is founded on political violence right so to me if i am an american citizen it seems obvious

00:54:52.880 that violence solves problems and if i'm a citizen like i'm trying to and i gave a scenario and i'm

00:55:00.920 the reason i'm getting into this because there's an individual i'm friendly with

00:55:03.840 and i i would liken as a colleague who was taking exception to this and a lot of people would a lot

00:55:10.160 of people who are more intellectual will say violence never accomplishes anything it doesn't

00:55:14.720 work if they're pushing back saying violence doesn't work you can't say violence works but

00:55:18.860 i'm like well it does this is the thing this is the real thing it does work now does lone wolf

00:55:26.380 violence work no does like just a random shooter work no but a group of people like it seems to be

00:55:33.520 the only real argument there is a matter of scale not of against violence as such right yeah and

00:55:41.800 then you can go back all through to political assassinations right everything it seems that

00:55:46.240 violence gets things done or at least the threat of violence does and then so i was kind of get

00:55:52.520 getting into a bit of an argument about like the because when you say that people assume that

00:55:58.480 you're advocating for violence and i i try to work within i'm building a scaffolding where i'm like

00:56:04.740 i'm not advocating for it i'm advocating against it but here's the thing if you want to find a

00:56:13.380 solution maybe not even a political solution a solution to the political problems that you and

00:56:19.980 your people are experiencing right now and you don't want it to be violent and you want to explore

00:56:26.260 a novel new solution you have to start from a position of why violence is effective and why

00:56:32.720 violence is popular and this is why i was kind of starting with the bronze age pervert stuff like

00:56:36.860 There is a desire within men to be savage and to be violent.

00:56:41.740 That is generated from within them.

00:56:44.800 What do we do about that?

00:56:46.280 We can't just say that.

00:56:47.700 We can't just cross your fingers and say, I don't think they're going to do anything.

00:56:51.460 I don't think, I'm not confident in that at all.

00:56:54.320 Especially, you know, one thing that he was pushing back on, which is fair.

00:56:58.020 He said, look, I think people are too docile.

00:57:03.120 They have too much to lose from engaging in political violence.

00:57:06.700 I said, sure, maybe for most, for now.

00:57:10.120 What do I say to Zoomers who don't have property, who don't have equity, who don't have job security?

00:57:15.780 Maybe they don't have families, they don't have anything holding them back.

00:57:20.060 They have nothing to lose.

00:57:22.240 What about Zoomers? What about Gen Alpha? What about half of millennials right now?

00:57:25.340 The very reasons where Gen X might not engage in violence, I can't promise anyone that for the next generation.

00:57:33.380 So all those reasons kind of fall away.

00:57:36.700 and again this is just to rephrase this this is all in the interest of exploring solutions that

00:57:44.000 do not result in shooting and terrorism but and sorry just to it's just to reinforce it right

00:57:51.180 because obviously this is all going to get clipped um i think one of the first topics we ever talked

00:57:56.760 about on the show was this exact thing years ago but that we need to find ways to take guys who

00:58:03.660 would otherwise become violent and direct them to something that is effective but non-violent right

00:58:10.100 we wish and hope to find something that does that and to get to that point you have to say

00:58:17.040 the violence is already there the violence is going to happen it's gonna happen okay there's

00:58:24.140 going to be blood i'm not asking for it i hope there's i wish there wasn't going to be but

00:58:29.420 there's going to be it's not going to be me but there's going to be blood there's already been

00:58:33.520 and there's going to be more so and so the frustrating thing is people who are saying

00:58:37.320 no don't worry about it we have lots of time there will be no blood no there's already blood

00:58:42.020 there's been lots of blood in the past three years and it's going to get worse it's only going to get

00:58:46.660 worse it's going to keep getting worse until something changes so the question is how do you

00:58:51.140 change it before it gets so bad that there's none of us left yeah and also the reason i brought this

00:58:57.000 up and i gave two scenarios because i wanted to get my point across that i'm not making a broad

00:59:04.280 sweeping suggestion but i'm like here's two scenarios um and this is where i got in trouble

00:59:08.980 because once i see these it sounds like i'm advocating for violence but i'm propositioning

00:59:14.580 these by saying like i'm begging you to tell me what you would tell this individual other than

00:59:20.420 violence so here's the first one you're a young canadian father who needs to send your child to

00:59:26.940 public school it's the law unless you do a homeschool thing but for most people you need to

00:59:31.420 send them to public school it's very difficult you're working class family you can't send your

00:59:36.300 kid to a private school and you can't homeschool them you can't pay eighty thousand dollars a year

00:59:41.500 to send them to also let me just sidebar i was looking at a graph that says for most private

00:59:47.660 schools it's a waste of money just by have those systems set up it was showing like a horizontal

00:59:53.180 graph on like the success based on the amount they paid for school like it actually goes up higher

00:59:59.440 when you're at a poor school because you get so many extra bursts you almost get into harvard

01:00:03.500 you get into harvard automatically if you're not just a school shooter if you're that poor

01:00:07.900 or that dumb then there's like this dip below where if you go to a private a regular private

01:00:14.360 school yeah you you it works against you unless you're at the elite of the elitist private schools

01:00:20.040 on the far end of the right tail and then you're up way at the top so you need to to get into that

01:00:26.200 rarefied air you need to not just be in a public school but the best public school so if you're

01:00:30.900 paying 80 000 a year you can go fuck yourself if you're paying 200 000 a year yes now your kid's

01:00:37.660 gonna be in the fucking champagne or anyway i'm just making up numbers but that was the graph

01:00:42.420 where it's it would almost benefit you just to send your kid to a public school versus like a

01:00:48.360 mid-range private school anyway that's in america too but anyway let's say you're working with less

01:00:53.880 families send your kids to public school the public school is telling your child that it is

01:00:59.180 both brave and cool to mutilate their genitals and if when they come home if you argue against

01:01:06.500 that and they get wind of that they will take your child away and if you complain to the government

01:01:11.920 about how this is troubling you the government will tell you to kill yourself and say that it

01:01:16.760 could help you kill yourself and my argument was if you take that scenario and explain it to even

01:01:22.740 your own ancestors 50 70 100 years ago they would probably say well why haven't just started

01:01:31.400 shooting politicians they would that is what they would say and they go back any point in time they

01:01:37.980 would say if my government was doing that i would start stabbing them like it would just of course

01:01:43.160 like the idea of it well first of all they would they would laugh at you and say no you know child

01:01:47.940 wine is going to that school i'll keep them home on the farm and it's like yeah but there's truancy

01:01:51.500 officers okay let them come to my house and i'll fucking shoot i'll shoot them in the head that's

01:01:56.020 what my grandfather would have said i've heard my grandfather say things like that yeah so and

01:02:00.220 you'd believe them and so i i look i'm like that guy in that position who's getting his child taken

01:02:07.460 away and mutilated like tell him like you need to explain to him how violence isn't the answer

01:02:13.700 like the immediate answer and if you're not of i don't think you need to be a father or a parent

01:02:20.120 or a mother to understand that like just the insanity of that but i think once you have kids

01:02:26.380 it would make sense and and the individual i was talking to would say like well i mean then you'd

01:02:31.320 go to prison and like but this is the thing if you're a man i don't if you're a father that would

01:02:37.240 be an okay trade for protecting your child from being having their genitals mutilated and and

01:02:43.080 have them kidnapped yes for the chance for the chance because the alternative is almost as bad

01:02:48.420 as life in prison and again not to pick on people but like talking to people who are not working

01:02:53.920 class are not parents are not married it's a little bit different from talking to people who

01:02:58.720 are like it's very hard for people in a position of like wealth and authority who don't really have

01:03:03.960 to work that hard it's easy for them to say that things are great and just hold on a minute and

01:03:10.180 give me another 10 years and i'll fix this it's like no we don't have to like you're saying when

01:03:14.620 you say give me another 10 years and i'll fix this you're saying just put your kids in public

01:03:18.340 school until they're 18 and by then i'll have it fixed no by then my child is trans and has

01:03:22.960 committed suicide you don't get it i need a solution like by september i need a solution

01:03:28.020 by september because that's when my kid's supposed to start school that's what i need and the other

01:03:32.680 one was very similar it sounds like i'm leveraging children too much but again these are pulled from

01:03:38.380 real experiences let's say you're in the uk uh and you are living in a town with a muslim

01:03:44.820 they call them a grooming gang they're a rape gang a ethnically driven rape gang that has the

01:03:51.320 protection either outright or the complicity of the police and you need to defend your family

01:03:59.300 from rape and murder from brown people would you employ violence to do that knowing that the cops

01:04:06.020 are either going to turn the other way or sometimes even help protect them would you do that

01:04:10.880 and then again you know that thing as well you would you go to jail like but but you need to

01:04:16.620 I'm begging you to explain to me, what do I say to that guy?

01:04:20.220 What do I say to the guy who's living this reality right now,

01:04:23.580 the people who are living this reality right now,

01:04:26.040 where the lives of them and their families are on the line

01:04:28.480 because of this mass migration?

01:04:31.260 This isn't hypothetical.

01:04:33.040 This is like, your kid is going to be transed.

01:04:36.900 Your kid is going to be molested unless you do something rash as a man.

01:04:41.460 And what I'm saying is that we need to have an answer for that.

01:04:44.780 and the larger point i was making and i suppose this would be the underlying point was that

01:04:49.760 if you don't take the effectiveness of violence seriously you do not deserve to be taken

01:04:56.680 seriously in politics yes and i would say that to anyone and that's like you must understand why

01:05:02.340 violence is attractive and this circling back to the bronze age pervert new savagery stuff

01:05:07.760 you must understand what is driving people to like violence to like the savagery like it's there for

01:05:14.640 a reason now there's two things that happen here a people are actually driven to lone wolf violence

01:05:22.260 either they actually do it or they're corralled by the fbi and encouraged to do it you know that's

01:05:27.240 a whole other thing entirely but there are people that are you know planning for the apocalypse

01:05:31.780 they're building their stockpiles right now but then you can also get routed into what i think

01:05:37.340 is a bit more pernicious which is fantasies of violence which is what i think this sort of new

01:05:42.960 savagery is where a lot of these people and all these other grifters do which and something that

01:05:47.520 is a an epidemic in our scene which is you spend all of your time fantasizing about the race war

01:05:53.560 fantasizing about the west falling imagine what you're going to do like you the violence becomes

01:06:01.000 a fandom savagery itself becomes a fandom it's a thing you pay money to and that's a pressure

01:06:08.380 release valve so you got two pressure release valves which is one actually doing violence and

01:06:13.380 you're stopped by the authorities because the point this individual is making is true that if

01:06:18.580 you go out and try and just take on the government yourself you will get crushed that's a fact i get

01:06:24.060 it um you know if you try and start building a bond they're gonna catch you but then you can

01:06:28.780 kind of get diverted into this other sector which i i think might be worse which is you just spend

01:06:34.780 all your time planning for violence and embracing violence and looking for someone to lead you to

01:06:38.980 violence you just never do and you just kind of spin your wheels forever but i keep wanting to

01:06:45.420 come back to like there's something there that you need to take seriously you need to

01:06:50.860 you need to answer that question like if i am here proposing a solution like let's say i want

01:06:57.840 to help our people and who are people let's say it's europeans white people canadians whoever you

01:07:05.120 know there's different sort of ways we can allot this if i want to help them and provide a solution

01:07:10.980 for violence it can't and it's it can't just be politics it has to be something that is more

01:07:15.660 attractive than righteous vengeance which is very popular right now you need to make a case

01:07:23.420 that is stronger than both actual violence and the violence fandom those are the two things you

01:07:31.140 need to make a case better than and i'm not saying that i have i have a few ideas but i'm not saying

01:07:35.960 i have right now but if if you don't view your political project as trying to overtake those

01:07:41.980 you are not a serious person and i say that to anyone that was again maybe a a clumsy point did

01:07:49.720 Do you what do you think? No, absolutely. It's a very important point. It's critical because and people on both sides, people under on both sides have like the left has completely ignored it.

01:08:01.040 And the right, it's in their face all day. And a lot of the guys, not just on the conservative end, but like on the dissident right, want to kind of ignore this and be like, oh, no, it's it's it's nothing.

01:08:13.340 nothing ever happens it's just you know it's always been that way and like no times change

01:08:18.220 you know that's the the normalcy bias in you like um it wasn't like this 10 years ago it you like

01:08:24.240 you said it used to just be more or less level-headed right-wing gym bros um who kind of

01:08:31.520 had control of it but now it's really really ready to boil over and there are a lot of people who

01:08:38.520 don't have the and i was going to say that about bap and about them to them selling this shit to

01:08:42.440 to guys who don't have the cojones to you know the discipline to actually go to the gym

01:08:49.520 those are the guys not us those are the guys who go out and you know shoot up malls and shit

01:08:55.720 right because they are they have no other outlet and they just need the violence they need action

01:09:01.380 they can't be impotent anymore and it finally breaks so like those guys are real they exist

01:09:07.760 and you're going to start seeing more of them you're just you already are seeing more of them

01:09:10.980 you're on on the left and the right and it's not even a political thing really it's just people

01:09:15.600 who have no fucking future the the the less they have the less future they have the more likely

01:09:22.000 they are to solve sometimes petty problems with extreme levels of violence so the idea that

01:09:28.540 especially people on our own side want to discount that and say it's not real it's never happened

01:09:34.060 you're acting like it's 2006 man like what come on like yeah and also just another thing that

01:09:40.860 occurred to me this is what i was thinking about all day today i mean this is something i've talked

01:09:45.580 about with a number of people in direct messages and regular conversations one of whom is the

01:09:52.560 proprietor of death athletic which is a great site people should check it out check out death

01:09:59.180 athletic the guy who runs that is a highly intelligent guy and we we talked for days days

01:10:07.100 and days about this and coming back to the people want to start organizations people want to start

01:10:12.200 groups they want to start you know projects like this and you always need to come back to the

01:10:17.260 question for what right so for example with working out fitness getting in shape um for what reason

01:10:26.880 do you want to get in shape some people it's just aesthetics and it's narcissism but one thing i

01:10:34.280 found in my experience and i've seen this happen to a handful of active clubs is that even people

01:10:42.120 who get into fitness they eventually start saying like what am i doing this for and you need to have

01:10:47.560 an answer for them and a lot of active clubs the men who get involved they're highly disciplined

01:10:52.840 and this is what i was saying originally with the fascist bodybuilder thing which is that most guys

01:11:00.200 don't get into this because they are fascist they get into it because they have a few qualities

01:11:06.540 they have a cluster of a few behavioral traits one is that they're probably interested in weird

01:11:11.820 stuff they're interested in self-improvement which is already rare that's rare with people

01:11:16.200 that you would want to punish your body and engage in extreme discipline odds are you're a bit more

01:11:22.180 ambitious than most odds are you're a bit more inquisitive than most it's it takes a lot of

01:11:27.360 like brave courage to go down this path like even go most people can't even walk into a

01:11:32.540 fucking gym forget about it so it seems to filter for a certain type of guy and that type of guy

01:11:40.720 ends up kind of being pushed into fascism because if you are a white man who's interested in sort

01:11:46.580 of militaristic discipline thinking according to the rest of society you are you're already

01:11:52.300 kind of a nazi and i'm not and i use the term nazi very loosely here i want to clarify that

01:11:57.720 that i'm not talking because you know there was a lot of europeans in our chat it's like well to

01:12:01.280 be a nazi you got to be you know german you got to be a pureblood i'm talking about 21st century

01:12:07.400 nazis where half of them are argentinians okay i'm talking about guys who are just really into

01:12:13.840 hitler and really into holocaust denial and stuff like that that's kind of the broad thing i'm

01:12:18.420 but those are the types of minds who are attracted to it so it kind of sorts for a certain quality

01:12:24.580 of guy and these are the guys where once they get into fitness what's like for what why am i getting

01:12:30.160 in shape the answer for most guys like this is to fight and to kill and that's why i always say

01:12:37.120 like not only are these really far right when fascist guys the ones in fitness they're also

01:12:41.180 the guys i see starting fight clubs they're the ones i see starting these like independent octagon

01:12:46.440 unfightingly like they're the ones who are actually i'm getting in shape because i want to

01:12:49.980 know how to tear someone apart right but then eventually it's like i can do that for what you

01:12:55.680 know why am i starting a political movement well i want to get awareness but for what you want to

01:13:01.420 organize people get them into a room like i'm running a political party and i got 2 000 subscribers

01:13:08.580 and donors and i got 500 people in a venue for what what do you get what are you getting them

01:13:13.900 to do what are you organizing them for and this is why a lot of active groups in my experience

01:13:19.740 would fly apart is because people are like well what do we do what are we doing we got a bunch of

01:13:23.220 driven ambitious guys are we doing a project and then they don't know and then it all just

01:13:28.960 fucking falls apart and so i find that in any sort of political or sociological project you

01:13:36.100 always have to be answered what are we actually doing this for and so a lot of the masculinity

01:13:41.040 kidney stuff when i was talking to the prior of death athletic he's like you know at the end of

01:13:45.160 the day like what do guys want they want status they want you know they want to have sex they

01:13:50.520 want to have like a mate and they want security like if you boy i'm not trying to be sort of a

01:13:55.440 secular humanist here but once you cut away a lot of the ideology and a lot of the symbolism

01:14:01.060 a lot of these guys just want the same shit and it's and you need to be able to answer that so

01:14:07.660 for example this is what attracted men to the military you know not only do they teach you how

01:14:12.980 to fight teach you how to kill and give you camaraderie and brotherhood and when i spoke to

01:14:18.260 the raging dissident jeremy mckenzie we discussed this exact same thing about what drives men to get

01:14:24.960 in the military and according to him i think he's very very accurate when he says this he will not

01:14:29.660 recommend any young man get into the military anymore i'm sure pained him to say that because

01:14:34.900 it meant a lot to him most veterans it does but he's like i would not recommend a young man get

01:14:40.720 in the canadian military in the army especially i don't know about the air force air force seems

01:14:45.400 okay whatever but but then what because men also want status they don't just want to learn how to

01:14:51.460 fight they want to learn how to fight in something that is dignified and something that gives them

01:14:56.620 a sense of brotherhood and camaraderie and you're an elite like you you have a uniform you have

01:15:02.780 something and the question is like what are we providing like that what are we what are we

01:15:07.980 providing young men in the form of prestige in the form of some kind of status that we can offer them

01:15:15.020 outside the military which is saying like we're getting together to work out for what

01:15:20.700 you know and if we can start answering these questions answering what guys really want we

01:15:26.940 actually might have a have a shot at this because otherwise then they get caught up in fandom they

01:15:32.380 they get caught up spinning their wheels and it probably ends in suicide you know like anyway

01:15:37.840 does any of that make sense or is that yeah yeah absolutely like like i say like we've been

01:15:43.680 by we i mean you and i on the show have come up and touched this topic a number of times and it

01:15:50.760 always we do tend to come back to the same thing like whether we're talking about bap or talking

01:15:55.380 about what's gone on in even in the past few years with active clubs it's that it's purpose right and

01:16:01.100 and like a mission like what we've got this marketing thing down pat we've got kind of

01:16:07.720 the community organization thing we're actually doing that pretty well but past that point that's

01:16:12.760 where we've been probably since 2016 it's like what do you do with this because it seems like

01:16:17.760 it's being capitalized on by grifters to suck guys out and take their money um and then a lot

01:16:23.160 of guys are just falling out because there's nothing offered to them and they're either

01:16:26.060 committing suicide or they're shooting people up or they're like doing mdma and becoming liberal

01:16:30.300 like there's all but i mean at what point does this evolve into the next becoming rich hanania

01:16:36.460 they're they're going all kinds yeah but like there has to be more to it than that so i mean

01:16:42.480 this is everybody says nothing ever happens like yeah nothing ever happens because you don't

01:16:46.440 fucking do anything so yeah and let me give you an example of the type of thinking i was thinking

01:16:50.360 okay so it's like i and this might get into your thing about cities and rural living but

01:16:55.920 i was thinking like okay you want to break away from civilization you want to sort of parallel

01:17:02.660 society this is something we talk about all the time starting to parallel community and society

01:17:07.440 let's see for what reason well because we want to survive okay but what you can't survival just

01:17:15.300 isn't enough because they will not leave you alone they will come for you and this is something we

01:17:21.080 were discussing in the chat which is probably what you'll get into in a second like if they

01:17:25.220 They say if the eye of Sauron falls upon you, if you do a good enough job in your parallel society, they will come for you.

01:17:33.640 Sometimes they'll just take you down or outright kill you.

01:17:36.940 So I'm like, okay, so, but that's not a reason not to do it.

01:17:40.520 It's like, for what reason?

01:17:41.880 What we want to do is achieve sovereignty.

01:17:44.880 Okay, now what is sovereignty?

01:17:46.700 We discussed this when we discussed Joseph de Maestra.

01:17:49.520 among other books joseph de maestra defines sovereignty in essence as you know what that

01:17:55.920 essence where no one fucks with you basically now that could take the four some people say that only

01:18:01.680 takes a violent form and that's where people's minds will go that means you've got enough guns

01:18:06.800 that means you're savage if i say hold on a second because here maybe there's something else like what

01:18:13.060 would make someone not fuck with you it could be that they're scared of you but maybe you can't

01:18:17.060 out arm yourself against the government but some other way to centralize your power through economic

01:18:22.980 output basically you're in a position where they need to deal with you and it's it's easier to deal

01:18:30.420 with you than it is to destroy you so what you need to do if you want to start a parallel

01:18:35.740 civilization is put yourself in a position where it's easier to deal with you than it is to come

01:18:40.800 after you and you still have that violence there's still the ability that you have to defend yourself

01:18:47.020 but that's not the only thing you have yeah you you also have you you've got some kind of

01:18:53.080 financial mode of production where the government finds you valuable because that's how geopolitics

01:18:59.060 works it's not just automatically the most dangerous country is most powerful as we saw

01:19:04.140 in our coverage of turbo america like sometimes the most powerful entity is the one that facilitates

01:19:08.940 the most for others you know i think you need you need both right like if you were if you were an

01:19:14.960 explicitly right-wing organization a dissident right-wing organization um but you were completely

01:19:21.140 non-violent on principle which is to say obviously like in neither case would you ever be violent but

01:19:28.060 like in in your spoken word and your material when you're talking about it you're never threatening

01:19:33.360 violence you're always saying no we would it doesn't matter what you do to us we'll never fight

01:19:36.600 you because we're non-violent pacifists right and then you create a situation where you are

01:19:41.820 economically viable and you're building a community

01:19:44.000 and you're growing and you're worth a lot of money and you have all these

01:19:46.000 resources maybe you have some natural resources

01:19:48.180 up north and you're selling it back to the cities

01:19:49.780 they're just going to fucking take it

01:19:52.180 they're just going to take it because

01:19:54.040 there's no repercussions for them taking it

01:19:55.960 now again if you're just violent

01:19:57.980 but you don't have any economic power

01:20:00.000 they're just going to blow you up

01:20:01.920 because they have fighter jets they're just going to

01:20:03.960 fucking shoot you now if you have

01:20:05.880 natural resources or you have like an economic resource

01:20:08.100 and you have violence

01:20:09.800 they know they can beat you in a fight but the cost of the fight in addition to the cost of

01:20:16.440 losing the resources may actually be enough for them to say you know what maybe we can just pull

01:20:21.480 this under the rug for another year and just deal with it and just maybe we don't maybe we don't

01:20:26.440 this year i mean that's kind of a situation but the point is is now we're talking about the same

01:20:30.480 thing again where you have to have it's like knowing your shadow i forget who that was with

01:20:34.800 fucking young or whoever like you have to incorporate in your shadow right you have to

01:20:40.040 understand the potential for violence make it known don't be violent you know but you have to

01:20:46.660 have to realize that the potential for violence the implied threat of violence is kind of a

01:20:52.780 necessary element of your own sovereignty yeah uh there's this great quote from i forget what movie

01:21:00.560 it is but it was john goodman giving a speech about how anyone with power does it from the

01:21:07.800 position of fuck you you get up two and a half million dollars any asshole in the world knows

01:21:13.880 what to do you get a house with a 25 year roof an indestructible jap economy shit box you put

01:21:19.620 the rest into the system of three to five percent to pay your taxes and that's your base get me

01:21:23.800 that's your fortress of fucking solitude that puts you for the rest of your life at a level

01:21:28.900 of fuck you somebody wants you to do something fuck you boss pisses you off fuck you own your

01:21:35.920 house have a couple bucks in the bank don't drink that's all i have to say to anybody at any social

01:21:42.340 level did your grandfather take risks yes i guarantee he did it from a position of fuck you

01:21:49.220 a wise man's life is based around fuck you the united states of america is based on fuck you

01:21:55.900 you're a king you have an army greatest navy in the history of the world fuck you blow me

01:22:02.500 fuck it up ourselves which we have done beautiful fuck you position lost forever

01:22:09.520 like you have enough money that's what fuck you money is you have a position to tell people to

01:22:14.860 go fuck themselves so what sovereignty really is it's all those components that allow a group or

01:22:22.420 community or something approaching a sovereign nation to tell outsiders to go fuck themselves

01:22:30.220 now how you know what components are in that is we can negotiate that part of it's going to be

01:22:36.260 the capacity for violence part of it's going to be their productive capabilities productive

01:22:40.740 capabilities beyond subservient subsistence farming that's a lot of people do like we're

01:22:46.520 going to start we're going to live like the amish everywhere i'm like that's a good way to get

01:22:49.820 stomped out what you need to do is get into manufacturing what you need to do is become

01:22:54.580 essential to the fucking superconductor you know it's also it's also a little bit of a straw man

01:23:00.740 it's a straw man in two directions a straw man in one direction because a lot not everybody who

01:23:06.300 is talking from in this frame intends to go deep into the woods and and grow turnips i the reason

01:23:12.220 i joke all the time in the chat about like growing turnips or going radishes or whatever

01:23:15.860 is because it's funny right like it's a funny meme that you'd be ted k and have a little cabin and

01:23:21.520 grow shitty carrots right but no like very few people are actually doing that the other end of

01:23:25.880 it is uh city guys and elites who have no fucking clue where their food comes from think that it's

01:23:30.460 trivial to grow nutritional food it's fucking not it actually is difficult and takes a lot of work

01:23:35.960 and tenacity to grow food um and they wouldn't know that because they've never fucking done it

01:23:40.840 yeah and the idea is that you know when people will say like i want to break away from society

01:23:48.600 i say for what reason it's like well i want to just get away it's like well you can start from

01:23:53.220 a position of you can never get away what you want to do is step to the side centralize enough power

01:23:58.880 so that you have to re-engage right and from that position you can re-engage and impact the larger

01:24:05.280 system and now you now you get in a conversation of how you create your own elites that's a more

01:24:10.180 fun conversation but that's kind of what i was getting at where violence is a part of it i cannot

01:24:16.380 accept any framework that does not incorporate it but we need a framework that does not maximize

01:24:23.900 violence because it will maximize on its own yeah and it will maximize itself either to destroy

01:24:30.600 itself or keep people on this hamster wheel of like violence worship so somebody had brought up

01:24:37.040 the bundies the other day as an example of um like city elites or the or the government or whoever

01:24:44.840 just raining down like it was a new waco which i mean it kind of was except that nobody died

01:24:49.440 and it was just like the atf or whoever against like a dozen or so ranchers and they all got

01:24:55.680 arrested and they all served federal sentences whatever but there's like that story was heavily

01:25:00.780 publicized and the thing i don't like about this same with waco like waco wasn't publicized because

01:25:05.320 we right-wing conspiracy theorists got a hold of it to broadcast it they broadcast it they want you

01:25:10.300 to know about waco i mean the reason we're having this conversation in hushed tones is because of

01:25:14.800 waco but what they don't want you to know is their arc and i can't remember the name of the fucking

01:25:18.380 family now which is a shame there was a case in i think the late 90s or early 2000s all it was it

01:25:23.780 was smaller than waco but it was bigger than the bundy ranch where they had a problem with like

01:25:28.860 the governor's office and the i think it was actually like a violent crime that they wanted

01:25:32.040 these guys for but the sheriff and the local police would keep going up to this guy's ranch

01:25:36.200 and they had four or five families in ranch houses on maybe 50 or 60 acres and they just had the good

01:25:42.520 old boys patrolling with air 15s in trucks um in the backs of trucks and they just at some point

01:25:48.360 they just said you know what we're not dealing with this like five ten years went by maybe

01:25:52.100 somebody can comment what the name was if you remember the story but like five ten years went

01:25:56.560 by and the statute of limitations on the crime wasn't even up but the da literally talked to

01:26:02.520 the police and said can we just drop this so we're no longer under media pressure to prosecute these

01:26:07.060 guys can we just drop it because i don't want to have to keep sending cops out here and risk a

01:26:11.360 shootout because their tax they are paying their taxes and not not that you should but they were

01:26:16.540 paying their taxes and they're they're working jobs and they're like it was a farm so they're

01:26:20.920 providing a large amount of revenue for the community and hiring people and we really don't

01:26:26.740 want to have a shootout and the only way that we can go in there and arrest this guy for this

01:26:31.220 you know important crime the only way we can arrest him is having a massive shootout probably

01:26:36.520 30 of them dead 15 of our cops dead we gotta hire new cops i don't want to do it so let's just drop

01:26:41.980 it and they dropped it and it's over and that's it that was the resolution is it's over nobody died

01:26:47.480 not a shot was fired the government just chose to ignore it and it never got in the newspapers

01:26:53.240 it never went in the media i like the idea that we keep hearing about waco like there's been a

01:26:59.700 couple of netflix shows about waco um and it never had occurred to me until just now that

01:27:06.380 that must be because there's a lot of people thinking waco thoughts these days because you

01:27:12.940 didn't hear about waco like growing up you didn't really see as many movies and shows about it but

01:27:17.800 now it's on like the tip of everyone's tongue and now they're gonna show show a movie about how

01:27:23.620 how badly that leads to like why did they just make a ted k movie i think there are some people

01:27:29.240 talking about it like oh they're um you know they're making this maybe you know people are

01:27:32.780 coming around to our side no they they made that ted k movie and by the way they made him look like

01:27:36.300 a weird incel faggot which wasn't just a fucking chat but they made him look like a loser and then

01:27:41.720 they it was the whole story of his his life and his weirdness up until his incarceration and death

01:27:47.680 and it's like okay they're essentially saying don't do it because this is what will happen to

01:27:51.400 you that's the whole point to the waco media too it's don't do it because we're fucking crazy and

01:27:55.220 we will eat you that's what that's the reason that this is a public story if you really break

01:27:59.320 down that ted k movie and we did a review of the ted k movie for people who want to find the clip

01:28:03.660 of it on our odyssey channel but if you really break down that movie it seemed like they were

01:28:08.300 trying to get at the only reason he did what he did was because he did not have ready access to

01:28:14.020 pornography yeah like he was an incel and he was horny and he's not good with women and he's calling

01:28:20.720 his mom to complain about it and he didn't even seem to hate the government that much he was just

01:28:25.520 annoyed he was annoyed at the post office like there was like a scene where that was like near

01:28:30.880 the end like he's only doing this because he did they didn't give him enough change or something

01:28:35.500 like that yeah i'm like no like that yeah you're trying to make him into a loser like you know

01:28:39.240 what it would have you would have helped him actually if he could if he had internet porn

01:28:43.460 in that cabin of his that that's the movie go watch it and watch no fuck that watch our review

01:28:49.520 of it you know yes speaking of this you know i think this leads into the book i really want to

01:28:59.040 discuss and we're getting into a very exciting uh new arc and we're just exiting our geopolitics

01:29:06.640 bridging the gap between our little geopolitics arc and our economics arc with this book it's a

01:29:13.880 fascinating book and we could talk about this for a long long time it's called princes of the yen

01:29:19.460 by richard werner princes of the yen japan's central bankers and the transformation of the

01:29:27.500 economy this is a very very famous book very very highly regarded and i couldn't even save this

01:29:33.560 until later on because i think everything you need to know about economics is in this book

01:29:39.960 if i'm being honest um it's very very dense and it's very very well written and in telling the

01:29:46.400 story of japan's inspiring economic turnaround of the 20th century he has to explain a lot of

01:29:54.980 really basic economic principles like yeah in telling the story you must explain how credit

01:30:02.260 works how fiat currency works the breton woods everything that's bound up in this so you could

01:30:08.400 read princes of the yen if you have to read one book on economics i would recommend princes of

01:30:14.680 the end there's other great ones that we're going to talk to but i think this it not only explains

01:30:20.000 it but tells it in a pretty interesting story full of political intrigue and i'm just gonna

01:30:28.080 go i have a lot of notes here so i might just end up reading a lot of the notes in sequence

01:30:32.700 um and i think this is a very acute interest to you as well judas i'm kind of venturing into your

01:30:41.020 one of your areas of expertise i am not the most economically literate guy i do all right we've

01:30:47.040 covered some economics before on the show um the the foundation of political economy by frederick

01:30:53.960 list and free trade doesn't work uh which is uh really really great books this kind of builds up

01:30:59.800 i don't i don't know if i ever ever mentioned it to you but it's not because you know i didn't go

01:31:04.260 to fucking school for any of this shit but i was absolutely stone cold certain in like late 2015

01:31:10.820 that because of the uh the there was a repo scare in the end of 2015 with the overnight march it's

01:31:16.740 long thing with banks but like i thought that the market was crashing and i spent like a year

01:31:21.380 buying gold and fixing all my investment structure and hiding cash and researching all this stuff

01:31:27.260 probably for like 18 months so i haven't been so hard on it over the past few years although i

01:31:31.980 still do it a little bit but like that was where this came from is i'm i'm the guy that was obsessed

01:31:36.880 with like fiat currency and the banking system's gonna collapse in like 2016 so i just remember it

01:31:43.420 yeah well that's a bit more interesting than my financial story i just bought a ton of ethereum

01:31:49.020 and forgot where i put it oh no buddy

01:31:52.580 is it up is it i hope it's up right oh no everyone's using it since when since 10 years

01:32:03.080 ago yeah i don't know that's what i'm at like is it i don't know yeah of course

01:32:06.480 ether ether is like one is like probably second only to bitcoin i think i've become a big proponent

01:32:12.860 of buying the peak

01:32:13.940 because who doesn't

01:32:15.440 want to be at the top

01:32:16.340 you want the best

01:32:17.040 you want the best price

01:32:18.140 right

01:32:18.460 we got the big prices

01:32:19.740 we got the hot

01:32:20.420 the top ones

01:32:21.300 the shining ones

01:32:22.460 at the top of the hill

01:32:23.140 the best prices

01:32:24.000 why would you want

01:32:25.440 a low price

01:32:26.720 I want to look at my wall

01:32:28.880 and see I want to see

01:32:29.600 a big number in there

01:32:30.700 can you please cut this

01:32:31.580 with the Tim and Eric

01:32:32.740 prices

01:32:33.560 it's discount price

01:32:35.960 for me

01:32:36.880 it's premium prices

01:32:38.620 my prices are so small

01:32:42.840 You can barely see them.

01:32:43.840 There's some small prices.

01:32:44.840 We have prices discounted.

01:32:46.840 Ah!

01:32:47.840 Tim's discounted prices shattered to the ground.

01:32:49.840 Buy premium prices.

01:32:50.840 Hi, I'm Eric, and welcome to Eric's Premium Prices.

01:32:52.840 I've got all the premium prices.

01:32:54.840 I've got $19.99 for sale for $20.

01:32:56.840 You come to me when you want fine European prices.

01:32:59.840 They're premium.

01:33:00.840 Come on in.

01:33:01.840 Buy $35.50.

01:33:02.840 For $40.

01:33:03.840 Oh, lay an egg.

01:33:04.840 Go to Tim's discount prices.

01:33:05.840 Our $6.99s are down to $2.99.

01:33:07.840 Ah!

01:33:08.840 Tim buys his prices from China.

01:33:09.840 Mine are real.

01:33:10.840 It's a very interesting story.

01:33:14.000 What the story is, a story of the Bank of Japan and the Ministry of Finance in Japan

01:33:19.080 and how they're structured differently than most other central banks.

01:33:24.700 And it's the story of how the Bank of Japan used its internal machinations to reach a level of prominence in Japan

01:33:33.140 and really how Japan got to where it is today.

01:33:35.880 The Ministry of Finance was the most powerful ministry and the Bank of Japan had to report to the Ministry of Finance.

01:33:45.880 Ministry of Finance officials elicited deep and hushed exclamations of awe and respect.

01:33:52.880 And former ministry bureaucrats obtained influential posts as heads of private and public institutions.

01:33:58.880 But in one area, the Ministry did not have actual control, and that was the quantity

01:34:07.880 of credit creation and its allocation, which was decided by the Japanese Central Bank,

01:34:13.880 the Bank of Japan.

01:34:17.880 They told the Ministry of Finance, and the public, and the journalists,

01:34:20.880 we run monetary policy through interest rates.

01:34:24.880 and they let the ministry of finance reign in their interest rate policies but the rule

01:34:32.420 was done through not interest rates which is the price of money it was done through

01:34:37.180 the quantity of money um and there's a lot that can be learned from it um and we'll get into this

01:34:45.520 in the future episodes about the application of credit but we kind of get into it here so he starts

01:34:51.080 off by saying that while Germany's minister of the war economy by the name of Albert Speer

01:34:57.020 remained in prison after World War II, his Japanese wartime colleague actually became

01:35:03.160 prime minister of Japan. The wartime bureaucratic elite still had the levers of control of the

01:35:10.180 entire economy after the war. They managed to complete the system of total economy,

01:35:16.720 which was the goal of germany as well um in this system this was this was enacted during the war

01:35:24.600 and after the war too now while the war was going on it was a war economy just like in germany and

01:35:29.600 arguably just like uh america as well uh shareholders were eliminated no more shareholders

01:35:35.960 managers and companies were elevated and uh employees were all motivated through company

01:35:42.500 unions and job security. The economy itself was controlled not by a triangle of business

01:35:50.880 politicians and bureaucrats, but by the much narrower triangle of the Ministry of Finance,

01:35:57.040 the Ministry of International Trade and Industry, and the Bank of Japan. Those three institutions

01:36:02.040 controlled the entire economy. And Japan did not use free markets to become the second largest

01:36:09.620 economy in the world at the time this means that there was a rival to the capitalist system

01:36:16.680 according to richard werner based on the very visible hand of central planners that actually

01:36:23.140 outperformed other systems so while you know the west is making an argument for laissez-faire

01:36:28.940 open markets and capitalism here's this fucking japanese thing over here this this these fucking

01:36:34.640 japaners just just spitting in your face um and this of this continued essentially what they're

01:36:43.740 saying is the wartime economy persisted after world war ii right up until like the end of the

01:36:50.420 20th century pretty much and a lot of people will say well you know after world war ii after america

01:36:56.800 they came in and completely revised and revamped and rejiggered the japanese economy the in the

01:37:03.920 book he details not really um the u.s occupation was officially in charge of japan until 1952

01:37:12.180 now they did a lot of things they implemented re-education they introduced democratization

01:37:19.500 of the japanese people with a whole new constitution introduced new political parties

01:37:24.700 free elections also having women involved in elections and what they said to be a capitalist

01:37:31.320 economic system however many observers at the time would look and see the japanese style

01:37:38.920 economic system uh was still active like all this other shit was just window dressing that

01:37:45.880 beneath the surface the exact same system was still in operation um and what's interesting is

01:37:51.940 many observers also believe that the japanese style economic system as we know it had its roots

01:37:56.560 in age-old Japanese culture.

01:38:00.300 But the economic system that we know about now,

01:38:03.400 this new one, didn't exist until the 1920s.

01:38:06.160 He makes a case that originally Japan

01:38:08.400 was more like the American style,

01:38:10.760 like throughout most of its history.

01:38:12.220 It was very open market.

01:38:14.180 It was arguably even capitalist

01:38:15.740 and only became sort of this centralized war economy later on.

01:38:21.180 so the argument was made that during this time beneath the surface they had what was called

01:38:30.180 window guidance window guidance was this concept where they didn't outright and explicitly

01:38:38.200 employ central planning but if anything everyone knows about dealing with japanese businesses or

01:38:44.540 dealing with asian businesses they have a very distinct way of conducting business

01:38:47.800 a lot of different, you know, handshakes and winks and nudges and behind-closed-doors meetings.

01:38:54.680 It worked this way. It's called window guidance.

01:38:57.300 The Bank of Japan just told the banks how much they were going to lend,

01:39:02.040 they will have to lend in the coming quarter, and who, which sector of the economy to lend to.

01:39:08.180 It's credit allocation, credit control.

01:39:11.020 The Bank of Japan gave quarterly instructions to individual banks

01:39:14.540 on the value of loans and which industrial sectors

01:39:17.720 they should be allocated to.

01:39:20.060 You know, for example, in Japan,

01:39:22.780 it was essentially a one-party, they had democracy,

01:39:25.720 but it was like a one-party system for decades.

01:39:28.840 Like they had democracy, but democracy didn't matter.

01:39:32.440 They had free markets, but it didn't matter

01:39:34.680 because behind the scenes, everything was cartels.

01:39:37.960 Everything was still done by like a handful of central planners

01:39:41.540 not telling people what to do,

01:39:43.740 but kind of giving, quote unquote, suggestions on what to do.

01:39:47.540 And all these things just seemed from the outside to magically happen.

01:39:51.240 But you would only know what was going on if you were Japanese, you know.

01:39:55.560 And America, the reason America allowed this is because, you know, at the time this was the Cold War

01:40:03.400 and America didn't really want to spend too much time worrying about Japan.

01:40:08.440 And what they really were worried about was communism.

01:40:10.240 and they were worried about having a functional ally to hold back the communists.

01:40:15.340 So they were basically saying like, look, we're going to say we're doing all this.

01:40:20.380 We're essentially going to look the other way when it comes to your economic policy.

01:40:25.440 And it's working. It's working. We don't actually care.

01:40:27.620 People will say that America completely redid their corporate and economic structure.

01:40:32.920 They didn't really. And that's the true story here.

01:40:36.120 After the 1951 amnesty for war criminals,

01:40:41.120 much of the Japanese wartime bureaucracy was returned to their wartime positions.

01:40:47.120 This included wartime politicians and most Home Ministry bureaucrats

01:40:54.120 who had been in charge of the Thought Police,

01:40:57.120 a number of which moved to the Education Ministry.

01:41:00.120 Japan is the key to the fate of the Far East.

01:41:04.120 Once again, for the second time in the march of modern history, those words have urgent reality.

01:41:11.880 It kind of goes back to the 1930s.

01:41:14.320 So in the 1930s, the intellectual tide in Japan was changing back to the idea of government intervention because the free market system didn't seem to be delivering it anymore.

01:41:25.920 the stock market crash of 1929 a lot of people might not realize this because it was so bad

01:41:31.740 in america that stock market crash hit the entire world so the stock market stock market crash

01:41:37.200 impacted japan very very seriously and made people start to question this whole free market

01:41:42.800 capitalism thing so with the internal threats of recession and unemployment and communist takeover

01:41:50.200 because remember at this time communist subversion and communist party intrusion was a real big

01:41:56.860 problem it seems kind of quaint now but at the time people were really concerned about you know

01:42:02.440 dealing with the communists so um and also the external threat of being cut off from world trade

01:42:08.260 the military within japan concluded that japan could survive in such a hostile world only if

01:42:15.740 was strong and so the military began to implement sort of this dream of asia for the asians they

01:42:21.500 started really trying to promote that in the in the region um the move away from the free market

01:42:28.300 was spearheaded by the military and the quote reform bureaucrats is what they were called

01:42:33.820 who had entered the ministries during times of high unemployment and had often witnessed starvation

01:42:38.860 in the countryside their ideas were strongly influenced by national socialist thought that

01:42:43.900 was coming in from germany uh that government intervention in the form of redesigning incentive

01:42:49.900 structures and that's really what it is it's when they talk about the central plan they're trying to

01:42:54.060 just reform how incentives are laid out um and then the new economic system they are proposing

01:43:03.340 and this is also what they proposed proposed in japan was we're trying to set the firms free

01:43:09.500 from the control of stock stockholders and their drive of profit making so that's an interesting

01:43:15.820 way of looking at it that they were seeing this as liberating corporations from the greedy

01:43:20.860 stockholders and by that you would elevate the managers and elevate the employees within it

01:43:26.380 that was kind of what they were selling and it did seem to work um and and this completely changed

01:43:32.620 how their organizations were run the the doctrine of the firm was changed to what was called an

01:43:38.460 organic organization binding employers and employees together and serving for the public

01:43:44.220 benefit and this was officially implemented in 1938 um and so that meant that in each company

01:43:51.700 the government established industrial patriotic societies so it was kind of convincing employees

01:43:57.420 like it's your duty working at this company so people oftentimes look at these asian companies

01:44:01.980 like wow they they have a they're they they treat their work very seriously it's like they

01:44:07.100 they love their job they live at their job like yeah this is kind of how that came about it might

01:44:12.060 be a bit different in china but at this time it was really instilling them like you it's your

01:44:17.080 patriotic duty to work for this fucking company you're not just working for profit you're working

01:44:21.440 for japan and we're going to train you and we're going to have fun here and you're going to exercise

01:44:27.080 and we're going to treat it like it's military you're a soldier so you're an employee but you're

01:44:31.840 also a soldier for japan by being an employee which is an interesting way of looking at

01:44:37.080 employment that would seem completely alien to us right now but that was arguably what it is in a

01:44:43.040 lot of places now too and so they were being very very loose with loans very very loose with lending

01:44:50.260 they were trying to promote growth banks were compensated against their losses by the government

01:44:55.140 so if the banks were making all these loans that went bad didn't fucking matter just keep giving

01:44:59.740 out money uh soon more than 2 000 firms in japan had each been assigned their own separate bank

01:45:07.260 charged with just giving them their finance tended to their financial needs whenever they

01:45:11.380 needed it um and this was all of the interest in quote public interest above individual interest

01:45:19.960 in this sort of new economic order um and by that that means that we're not pursuing profits we're

01:45:26.960 only pursuing growth whatever leads to industrial or manufacturing or the growth of firms is what

01:45:33.120 we're throwing money at so that's a different metric from which to you can one could uh gauge

01:45:38.560 the effectiveness of a corporation because right now it's profits how much profit do you generate

01:45:42.800 there it's just how what is your output and how how rapidly are you growing and that changes kind

01:45:50.080 of the purpose of the economy because consider that that completely shifts why you're doing any

01:45:56.160 of this right oh that's interesting yeah and just uh just a little bit detail here as this was going

01:46:02.960 on it was general macarthur i should just add some detail here general macarthur implemented

01:46:07.440 the principle of indirect rule through the existing japanese bureaucracy unlike the more

01:46:12.720 direct rule established by the occupation forces in germany when the occupation ended in 1952

01:46:20.320 instead of dismantling the war economy system and deregulating and liberalizing the economy

01:46:25.520 general macarthur's democratization policies have been seriously undermined due to wanting to build

01:46:32.640 up japan as a bulwark against china so that's why this is all permitted like i said um and people

01:46:39.840 are saying oh well they had democratic elections well what they had was the liberal democratic

01:46:44.560 party in japan in 1955 which was essentially the one party reign they said it the word they

01:46:51.680 uses in the book it was the democratic fig leaf for the control bureaucrats who are really running

01:46:57.340 the country so yeah i just love the instance of like oh it's the liberal democratic party it's

01:47:02.600 the one party that know what people kind of vote for but also don't vote for um now the problem

01:47:10.100 was that uh the war mobilized model like this this way this treating the economy and firms like

01:47:18.480 they're like they're soldiers and the only goal is growth uh was so successful in inducing growth

01:47:25.860 that uh they actually wouldn't stop growing so this was kind of known as excess competition

01:47:31.660 there's a japanese word for it here i'm not going to try and pronounce it maybe i will kato kiyoso

01:47:38.080 that sounds about right um so like firms would go deeply deeply into debt just to

01:47:45.580 subsidize their output um that they would go into bankruptcy fighting for more and more market share

01:47:52.140 and this becomes relevant as they start expanding outside of japan as well

01:47:56.380 he says uh this is kind of interesting how he describes he says firms were not given

01:48:00.780 predetermined production quotas left to their own devices the structure would produce many

01:48:06.540 bankruptcies higher unemployment and excessively high concentration in each sector you can't just

01:48:11.580 let the competition go so the solution was the creation of explicit or implicit cartels in the

01:48:18.940 system lives remain regimented company exercises in the morning military boot camps for the new

01:48:25.340 employees the ultimate goal of a soldier had also been transferred to the post-war corporate warriors

01:48:31.900 loyalty unto death as documented by the stunning phenomenon of karoshi which is death from overwork

01:48:39.340 um and this was all really really done by the bank of japan and the story in the book is about

01:48:47.500 the conflict between the ministry of finance and the bank of japan the people who are setting the

01:48:52.860 monetary policy versus the central bank and the central bank are the ones who kind of flood the

01:48:57.980 market of credit and make the money available and so people would always think that oh the

01:49:03.820 the economic bureaucrats are obviously in charge

01:49:07.500 because they set the monetary policy.

01:49:10.280 And so we'll get into the next few episodes,

01:49:12.360 like the monetary policy doesn't really fucking matter.

01:49:14.640 What matters is whether the spigots are turned on,

01:49:17.240 the spigots of credit, where that credit is flowing,

01:49:20.400 how it is flowing, where it is flowing to,

01:49:22.780 and how it is being utilized.

01:49:24.980 Like we had said, really all that matters

01:49:26.740 is that the credit that is created

01:49:28.560 is used for a productive purpose,

01:49:30.580 if it's used for growth.

01:49:31.900 You know, when you think of a bubble, an economic bubble, like we're all used to hearing about the Great Recession and the housing bubble, what caused the housing bubble wasn't just rampant lending.

01:49:43.260 Well, it was in a sense, but what really caused it was lending to people who couldn't pay back.

01:49:48.420 It was bad loans, bad debt, which is a problem China has right now.

01:49:52.120 but you know conceivably you can make as many loans as you want and create as much credit as

01:49:59.000 humanly possible as long as they're going to productive forces and in this case it would be

01:50:03.300 manufacturing it would be investment in in these processes of growth but there's really no limit

01:50:10.400 on any of it as long as you know the debts are just given given to we call them unproductive

01:50:17.480 for us is what we mean is like lazy pieces of shit you know like what was the housing bubble

01:50:22.200 it wasn't that you gave too much money to people for mortgages it was that you gave too many like

01:50:26.840 broke black people mortgages you gave them mansions and shit that was really what caused it and that's

01:50:33.160 kind of what that movie the big shorts about it's it's kind of about them it's about bank greed but

01:50:37.880 it's also about the wrong type of people getting the spigots turned on over them and that just

01:50:44.080 causing a total collapse so partly it's the spigot well partly it's the hand that turns

01:50:48.840 the spigot on partly it's where it's going but it's not the spigot itself like it's kind of the

01:50:54.360 argument the book is making and and how does that all work because a lot of people don't even know

01:50:59.700 how this works he gives an example in the book using japanese example so let's say the bank of

01:51:06.480 japan goes out and purchases the house of mr harada with money it prints mr harada now has

01:51:13.900 more purchasing power available and he will most likely use at least a small part of it to buy

01:51:18.740 something else from someone that person then goes out and buys something from someone else and so on

01:51:23.540 increased demand has been created by the bank of japan out of nothing they also do this with

01:51:29.460 corporations the central bank lends they tend to buy government bonds bills and commercial paper

01:51:35.920 issued by corporations when the bank when the bank of japan buys this paper in the markets it

01:51:41.840 helps the economy just as much as if it purchased a piece of land which is to say that as long as

01:51:47.760 it's kind of releasing money into the economy and it's being spent and circulated that's okay like

01:51:54.140 there's a way to do this where you can kind of keep doing it indefinitely and when people will

01:51:58.500 say that well you know it's fiat currency it's based on nothing true but that's not necessarily

01:52:06.020 a bad thing now you have some opinions on that did you have any thoughts on that right now

01:52:10.960 i used to be a libertarian you have you have the big issue with with uh central planning is the uh

01:52:20.520 the it's to do with price discovery i forgot what that thing's called this to do with price

01:52:24.600 discovery like you can't figure out what things are actually worth to people like what are they

01:52:29.640 willing to work for psychologically socially in the long run if you don't have a an open market

01:52:34.620 where they can just discover that through negotiation so central planners literally

01:52:40.740 cannot solve this it's a it's the core problem with communism with socialism that being said

01:52:46.400 there's a way of organizing society like civilizationally for the west i don't think

01:52:50.560 this ever works in the west i'm not sure whether werner ever identifies that but the nature of

01:52:55.040 western liberal civilization which i don't even use as a dirty word is that we're independent and

01:53:01.100 we're creative and we we kind of jockey with each other and we're ambitious and we're faustian

01:53:06.380 but the flip side to that is our our cooperation is limited in certain ways and one of the ways

01:53:12.400 that our cooperation is limited is when we go to cooperate on something that's similar and we start

01:53:16.300 to compete and then we try to jockey with each other and then it doesn't work out so what you

01:53:20.540 need to do to resolve that is a market and the market is two people come together and they say

01:53:24.540 well you know i'd like to pay this well i'd like to pay this okay well i'll i'll take it this time

01:53:28.460 because i'm willing to sacrifice more with with some asian societies and different civilizations

01:53:34.060 it's more like a family and i think that this is one of the places where you can say

01:53:38.540 like even in western civilization we already know how this works because we have families

01:53:41.820 and we even have like larger larger in groups where we say there is no negotiation there is

01:53:46.700 is no competition there is no market we're all in this together and we all sacrifice equally and

01:53:51.300 some of us are even going to die for the greater good we're actually we accept that on a family

01:53:55.300 level and what i've noticed in some asian societies and i think this is what's going on in japan

01:54:00.520 they've actually maximized that to the point that some form of like corporatist socialism

01:54:07.760 actually it works like it's economically effective and it's effective it's if the point is it's not

01:54:14.260 effective because the central planners are smart it's effective in spite of the central planners

01:54:19.140 being dumb because central planners cannot ever be smart enough to actually solve the price

01:54:24.480 discovery issues it's they're actually taking massive losses but the losses aren't as big

01:54:31.020 as the losses would have been if they had a bunch of japanese people competing with each other

01:54:35.960 because that's not how their civilization works you know what i mean that's kind of it's interesting

01:54:40.060 we'll get to this as we kind of wrap up this book it's interesting that the shift in japanese

01:54:47.160 economic policy and the bank of japan itself because the economy did shift towards a more

01:54:54.320 service-based consumption economy and this the art the ultimate argument by the book and the case

01:55:00.520 it very strongly makes is that there was a conspiracy because we've proven that the entire

01:55:06.780 economy was a bank of japan conspiracy basically using window guidance its shift to a more

01:55:14.520 consumption and service and creative based economy was also done by the bank of japan it

01:55:19.720 didn't happen organically it didn't happen due to any sort of natural occurrence it was like it was

01:55:26.320 actually like their argument and this will probably be popular with a lot of the anti-central bank

01:55:32.640 people was that the Japanese the Bank of Japan on purpose either allowed or facilitated a number of

01:55:42.720 economic crises and allowed the economy to go into recession to make the case that there needed to be

01:55:50.080 broad economic reform and this would have happened that's interesting that would have happened in the 90s

01:55:55.520 from the mid-1990s onwards the government began to dismantle much of the power structure of the

01:56:04.520 Ministry of Finance the Bank of Japan on the other hand saw its influence grow significantly

01:56:11.600 you have written just recently there's no doubt in your mind the central bank the Bank of Japan

01:56:17.600 will be cut loose from the Ministry of Finance and become pretty much independent putting it

01:56:22.800 on a footing with other central banks. Briefly, why are you so sure?

01:56:26.800 Basically, the Ministry of Finance, which had been controlling,

01:56:30.800 legally at least, the Bank of Japan, I mean that's what the law says,

01:56:34.800 has lost all credibility. The Ministry of Finance is being

01:56:38.800 blamed for the creation of the bubble, for the long recession, and

01:56:42.800 for many other problems which we had recently in Japan.

01:56:46.800 Whereas the Bank of Japan has been out of the spotlight of public

01:56:50.800 criticism and uh he's using that now to say well the mop has been bad we need independence now

01:56:57.660 richard thanks very much i have been speaking to richard werner chief economist at jardine

01:57:02.480 fleming securities in tokyo so in the 90s because the case is made it's like there was an economic

01:57:08.440 problem and the bank of japan could have prevented a recession simply by buying up the bad debt or

01:57:15.080 flooding with the company and that he says the fact they didn't is interesting but then he he

01:57:20.220 makes a case in the book and he looks at the individuals who are responsible for bank of

01:57:24.920 japan and their mentors it's like they've been talking about this for years they needed the

01:57:29.940 right crisis to convince everyone to go along with this because and the reason is that they

01:57:35.140 were convinced they genuinely were convinced that this was the future and they wanted access to

01:57:40.320 global markets in a way they couldn't before sorry i cut you off no it's just it's interesting

01:57:44.720 first of all it's obviously pointing out that that happened in the 90s and has nothing to do

01:57:49.880 with the enormous success that they had from 52 and into the 90s right but it's funny because that

01:57:55.880 is an example again of this whole thing with central planning it's not that central planners

01:57:59.920 can't make the correct decision it's that they don't always make the right decision like the

01:58:04.340 right decision is by definition the thing that people agree to on a market it's it's always right

01:58:08.400 somebody's going to ping me for that but that's fuck you that's what it is but with the central

01:58:12.080 planners this is a case of them making the exact right decision for the wrong fucking reason they

01:58:17.060 they had an evil scheme and the evil scheme involved them doing the right thing which was

01:58:22.300 hilarious which is the right thing is let the market settle the recession you have bad debt

01:58:27.960 you have bad companies with shitty products at a bad price they need to fucking go bankrupt the

01:58:32.980 employees and the capital and the resources need to be relocated to businesses that are actually

01:58:37.260 going to use them productively and that's called a recession and you need to do it or else your

01:58:41.700 economy fucking collapses which is what's happening to us right now yeah and he points

01:58:45.720 out here um just to summarize he says japan has pulled up the same trick in here that the united

01:58:51.720 states had used in the 1950s and the 1960s when the u.s banks excessively created dollars so

01:58:58.280 corporate america used all this hot money to basically buy up european companies and buy up

01:59:03.080 europe so while the united states had the cover of the dollar standard japan's cover was his uh

01:59:09.060 trade surpluses because it was just producing so much so it can kind of like pretend that's just

01:59:13.880 we're just amazing at making things you know but in fact what japan was doing up into the 70s and

01:59:19.920 a lot of people were complaining about this was that japan was exporting so much it had such a

01:59:26.080 trade surplus that it was putting american companies out of business it was the textile

01:59:32.080 industry in america was decimated like like we're not even talking about cars yet like also the

01:59:37.700 majority of japanese car manufacturers were just wartime manufacturers prior to that like

01:59:45.020 mitsubishi all these companies yeah they used to make missiles and jeeps and they moved into making

01:59:48.960 cars changed nothing about their factories and just started churning out consumer goods that

01:59:53.800 were very very high quality but that was a shock to the american auto market anyone who was around

02:00:00.480 in the 70s will fucking tell you that but that was a problem that uh japan was encountering which is

02:00:06.200 that there is a limit to growth there is like if you have a system within japan where you have to

02:00:14.600 grow as much as humanly possible this is why they had to have cartels set up because excessive

02:00:19.940 growth will cannibalize itself and what they wanted was access to global markets but access

02:00:24.900 to global markets meant that you had to play ball with america and what america said was okay if

02:00:31.120 you're gonna start exporting you're gonna get into this game that we've got set up you gotta

02:00:36.480 do a few things for us you have to change how you operate and he's making the case that that was one

02:00:41.340 of the main reasons that japan started changing it it felt it could make more money and have

02:00:49.680 more effective trade if it stopped treating in his in his words in the book if it stopped treating

02:00:55.320 trade like it was a war it was trying to win yeah because if you have your your company set up to

02:01:01.360 be like they were like soldiers like we're gonna fucking destroy the enemy it's like well we can't

02:01:05.840 do that anymore we have to have a different relationship which means like tamping down

02:01:10.160 like obsessive growth in a sense i think i might cut you off there no no it's all right i i know

02:01:16.420 werner's a huge japanese fanboy so obviously that's kind of the way that he's gonna look at

02:01:20.440 it to me what i'm seeing here is the central planners like in the 90s made the correct

02:01:24.620 decision for the wrong reasons and they continued to have the wrong reasons and they started making

02:01:28.620 um essentially wrong decisions and then the conclusion that he's drawing is well i mean

02:01:32.580 you can't have growth forever you can't grow forever yeah i think from from a faustine

02:01:36.780 standpoint you probably you probably can or at the very least i don't think anybody's adequately

02:01:41.720 proved that you can't grow forever i think you can't grow forever as a nice byline to explain

02:01:47.160 people's failures rather than just saying hey i had the wrong idea and i fucked up and now

02:01:53.380 everything's falling apart they say like oh well you know you can't have infinite growth like which

02:01:58.300 is i mean another way of saying we can't have infinite growth is there's no way that we can

02:02:01.800 have 15 billion people on this planet there's no way we can colonize mars we'll never be an

02:02:05.500 interstellar species you can't have infinite growth no we can't you could i mean mathematically

02:02:09.880 physically you could put 500 million sorry 500 billion people on earth more than that actually

02:02:16.120 you'd get into an issue with heat but technologically it's possible it's possible

02:02:20.320 to have that much economic and population growth but if you run it from a central planning

02:02:25.440 standpoint yeah you're eventually going to run into a roadblock well also like we kind of talked

02:02:29.140 about you know the bank of japan making these decisions it's like well who are the princes of

02:02:35.080 the yen we should probably establish that as well um so in the book he found that uh the actual

02:02:40.880 bank of japan uh the guys in charge with they ruled for around 10 years each so the number of

02:02:47.480 people who controlled japan's money in the post-war era is actually a pretty small one if it's one guy

02:02:52.800 every 10 years despite that 24 different individuals had held the office of prime minister

02:02:59.160 but japan's money was effectively controlled by only six guys over this time if we accept that

02:03:05.780 the bank of japan was in effect controlling the entire economy which it was and the ministry of

02:03:10.960 finance was there pretending like it was but it wasn't um it's a small group of people within the

02:03:17.260 bank of japan whose actions were not checked or controlled by that bank of japan staff these were

02:03:22.540 known as the princes of the yen um they've been controlled japan's economy their names he actually

02:03:28.420 names them it's um yashuri miyano toshiko fuki and in the early phases of the bubble creation

02:03:36.080 their mentor haru meikawa since haru meikawa is actually one of the engineers of what took them

02:03:42.560 towards from an export-oriented economy

02:03:46.840 to a domestic demand consumption-based economy.

02:03:51.740 And they did that from within the Bank of Japan.

02:03:54.840 Between 1990 and 2003,

02:03:58.860 212,000 companies went bankrupt.

02:04:02.780 In the same period, the stock market dropped by 80%.

02:04:07.140 Land prices in the major cities fell by up to 84%.

02:04:16.140 Some economists seemed relieved.

02:04:19.140 The downturn was evidence that Japan's economic system was not so successful after all.

02:04:27.140 Meanwhile, the governor of the Bank of Japan, Yasushi Mieno, said that

02:04:33.140 Thanks to this recession, everyone is becoming conscious of the need to implement economic transformation.

02:04:41.140 So basically, what the Bank of Japan did in the 1990s, there was a recession in Japan in the 1990s.

02:04:49.740 And what the Bank of Japan did was let the Ministry of Finance take the fall.

02:04:54.100 And he says here that the Bank of Japan could have solved the recession and solved the bad debt problem in one morning

02:05:00.660 by purchasing all the bad debts from all the banks at face value

02:05:04.100 and pay for them through the creation of new money.

02:05:07.000 The central bank would appear to make a loss.

02:05:09.100 However, the central bank having a license to print money

02:05:11.500 always makes a gain.

02:05:13.460 Not only would there be no cost to the Japanese central bank,

02:05:16.500 there would also be no cost to the economy or society at large.

02:05:20.160 If instead...

02:05:20.720 That's retarded.

02:05:22.280 Sorry.

02:05:22.720 Okay, no, no, continue.

02:05:23.600 Why is it retarded?

02:05:25.340 No, it's retarded because you're saying you have all of this bad debt

02:05:28.540 produced by horrible companies with corrupt management who produce nothing and parasitize

02:05:33.060 while everyone else fucking starves and purchasing all of their debt which which is to say giving

02:05:38.460 them all of the money that they burned and fucked everybody over for giving them the cash by printing

02:05:43.380 it also by the way when you print money you tax the population through inflation of the money

02:05:47.780 supply that has no cost to the economy guys don't worry about it there's no cost there's no cost

02:05:54.860 nobody has to pay for that and why why does nobody have to pay there's only one metric that

02:06:00.180 he's using to justify it the same thing the fucking flip shits do now is the central bank

02:06:04.680 always posts a profit because they have a license to print money it doesn't matter

02:06:07.780 we owe it to ourselves guys we will get to this next episode but there's a strong case to be made

02:06:13.480 that um it inflation isn't actually caused by that inflation itself is caused by other factors

02:06:20.040 um and that's like actually one of the things they saw during covid where they like the united

02:06:25.920 states printed like basically the united states created like what was it like seven trillion

02:06:32.580 dollars of new credit and inflation did not scale as high as it should have given that but it but it

02:06:40.540 did though not really inflate it's sticky it took 18 months but it did we have the highest inflation

02:06:46.620 essentially in 150 years right now this is just how long it takes that's just that's very simple

02:06:52.260 that's just how long it takes i'll get into the next episode about that specifically but um but

02:06:58.960 basically saying they could this is actually what they've done in the past to control a recession

02:07:02.820 you pump in credit to control it and then there's there's ways to there's ways to control a recession

02:07:09.620 like that but then they chose not to and the reason they chose not to was to effectively blame it on

02:07:15.760 the Ministry of Finance, because the Ministry of Finance is supposed to be in charge, even though

02:07:19.640 they actually have no power. And this was their way of pretty much getting the government to pare

02:07:26.200 down the Ministry of Finance while giving more power to the Bank of Japan explicitly. So it's

02:07:31.740 through this sort of financial coup that the Bank of Japan became the absolute dominant power in

02:07:38.760 Japan. And this was all because of this, what he's arguing was a financial crisis that was

02:07:44.940 engineered by the bank itself because all you're saying is like you know the bank of japan could

02:07:48.680 have solved this if it wanted to it chose not to why would it do that it's a weird thing to not do

02:07:53.620 you know because that's kind of what it's there for that's why it fucking exists is to prevent

02:07:58.540 a recession that's the only reason any central bank exists is to prevent a fucking recession

02:08:03.500 and if it doesn't they're arguing well it's gotta be on purpose which is an argument people make

02:08:08.240 about the american central bank as well it's like you know these recessions might have served some

02:08:13.220 other political purpose that's another thing for another day not not to nag on it too much but

02:08:17.740 because we're bringing it up one of the definitions like how we know that we're in a recession is

02:08:22.260 deflation deflation is a dirty word to keynesians they think that it's it's awful and people hate it

02:08:27.640 but deflation uh causes people's savings to increase in values while the value of assets

02:08:34.120 fall so people who don't own houses but do have money in the bank become richer and fucking pricks

02:08:39.620 who own a lot of property become poorer and that's the reason they don't like it so a recession is

02:08:44.600 actually good for savers and it's weird that anyways i just wanted to bring that up that

02:08:50.280 we're talking about that you know in they can definitely the inflation isn't an issue but like

02:08:55.800 the reason that we want to prevent a recession in the first place is because we don't dare

02:09:00.700 allow savers to have a little bit of deflation for once in a hundred years yeah so just to finish

02:09:08.220 this whole plot that was going on that's being outlined in the book so after the bank of japan

02:09:13.060 basically takes power from the ministry of finance and gets them pared down it kind of blames them

02:09:19.060 for the recession then the bank of japan releases this report called the makawa report the report

02:09:25.300 explained the purpose they're calling for reform now they're saying we must reform the japanese

02:09:30.080 economy just like they did back in the day just like how they took the the economy into a war

02:09:35.660 economy direction by saying that we have to change to adapt. They were doing the exact same

02:09:40.180 thing now. Now, what they're saying was we need a wholesale revolution of all parts of the Japanese

02:09:46.680 economic, political, and social system. That's what the report says. It seemed utopian to think

02:09:52.600 one could solve the deep-rooted and intractical problems of the structural trade surplus, high

02:09:58.200 land prices, and closed agricultural sector, the low quality of life, long working hours, and too

02:10:04.320 much regulation at the same time but just like in the 1920s the bank of japan had acted like a

02:10:10.160 second government in the pursuit of a agenda of systemic change so which is to say that the bank

02:10:16.160 of japan has always been in charge of not only financial change but social and economic you

02:10:22.320 know economic but also you know cultural change as well it's saying we must adapt to this new

02:10:28.160 world that's being driven by this one organization and in reality just a handful of guys

02:10:34.320 The report read like a wish list by US trade negotiators.

02:10:41.320 It started with calls for administrative reform

02:10:44.320 and the abolition of bureaucratic powers.

02:10:47.320 The goal was the transformation of the entire body politic,

02:10:53.320 the abolition of the war economy system,

02:10:56.320 and the introduction of a US-style free market economy.

02:11:01.320 Those members of the advisory group who uttered dissent were relieved of their duties.

02:11:13.320 Reports in the press were highly critical.

02:11:16.840 Observers recognized the radical nature of the plan.

02:11:20.700 It seemed far too ambitious.

02:11:23.940 It was calling for a wholesale revolution of all parts of the Japanese economic, political,

02:11:30.580 and social system.

02:11:37.680 Although the report was clear about what was wanted, it was embarrassingly silent about

02:11:43.060 how these goals would be achieved.

02:11:46.260 He said, without continued growth, the system was unsustainable and would have to be modified

02:11:50.980 at the very least.

02:11:52.520 The ability to grow fast rested on two pillars.

02:11:55.140 One was a world trade system, that was the United States,

02:11:59.180 that allowed Japan to eat into everybody else's market share.

02:12:02.400 The second pillar was the ability to constantly allocate new credit to productive sectors.

02:12:08.200 Japanese could not ignore the foreign cry for change.

02:12:12.400 Suffering from Japan's trade surpluses, the world could close itself to Japanese imports entirely.

02:12:18.180 The creation of trade blocks and strong-age competitors had changed the equation as well.

02:12:22.520 the solution to Japan's problem

02:12:26.020 of a declining growth rate at the time

02:12:27.960 was to increase productivity.

02:12:30.240 One was to retool the economy

02:12:32.280 by shifting from export orientation

02:12:34.320 to an expansion of domestic demand.

02:12:37.500 So this is how it becomes a consumer economy,

02:12:39.640 especially consumer-orientated industries.

02:12:42.260 Another involved a move

02:12:43.340 from an input-based manufacturing sector

02:12:45.460 to an emphasis on high productivity

02:12:48.060 and creative activities in non-manufacturing.

02:12:51.660 So now you start to see how this new Japanese economy is taking place because Japan doesn't seem like a war economy these days, does it? Well, this is how it kind of became that. It wasn't, this is kind of the argument. It wasn't Westernization because that's the line you hear from everyone else. Like America came in and just made them into a little America.

02:13:10.960 Actually, all the forces that seem to have driven the economic and social and cultural change within Japan were all from Japan itself.

02:13:21.000 America was relatively hands off with that whole fucking area.

02:13:26.380 Now, he ends the book with prescriptions for what central banks should do.

02:13:32.780 And I'm sure you would probably disagree with this, but this is going to be a trend in the next few episodes.

02:13:40.960 In his words, he says, central banks should be required to avoid business cycles entirely and achieve near full employment.

02:13:47.820 But as long as the actions of the princes are outside any democratic checks and balances, the princes can, if they so please, create another downturn as they did in 1997 and 2001.

02:14:00.340 So he's saying the princes of the yen are still active and they're still, you know, the idea of a recession that is allowed is to their own political or social ends.

02:14:10.960 which again is a big claim

02:14:13.960 and I think you could actually make that claim

02:14:16.360 to most central banks if you wanted to

02:14:18.740 but would you say

02:14:21.300 he's saying that the central banks

02:14:22.940 should have more priority in society

02:14:26.040 and they should be granted more power

02:14:28.200 to enact the change

02:14:31.560 however they should not be

02:14:32.880 in the control of this oligarchy

02:14:34.760 what are your thoughts about that?

02:14:37.740 I think we should round up

02:14:39.560 every central banker living and torture them and kill them in such a way that we don't have any

02:14:44.680 central bankers for a thousand years out of fear of of that happening to them i think that's what

02:14:49.880 we should do so no i don't think they should focus more on society i think they should be disbanded

02:14:54.840 okay yeah you're not gonna like the next few episodes oh no i'm gonna fight you i i'm just

02:15:01.640 i'm bringing the knowledge to the people i i'm i'm merely a trafficker let's say you're bringing

02:15:07.560 the books you're bringing the books to the people let's in a sense i this is blood salad central

02:15:13.720 bank of content you get it you're gonna like it we don't care how it affects you it's not

02:15:21.280 it's it's your problem but it's our decision so there's one spigot and there's two hands

02:15:26.280 and it's just sort of a looney tunes i'm turning on you're turning off i'm turning on you're turning

02:15:30.240 on um hold on he ends up by saying you know those in favor of central bank independence because

02:15:40.760 that's what the bank of japan was arguing for the entire time they're saying we deserve to be

02:15:45.680 independent in fact there was a law called the bank of japan law that limited their ability to

02:15:51.440 act independently that's kind of what their financial coup was about getting that law repealed

02:15:56.620 by blaming the ministry of finance they say they caused a recession fuck them we didn't do anything

02:16:01.740 wrong you should give us more power i'll give you i'll give you a more responsible answer then

02:16:05.540 does the does the body who was democratically limited in their power because their power

02:16:11.820 could hypothetically be absolute the body that was democratically limited in their power even

02:16:16.300 with their limited power caused a crisis that almost sank the entire nation just so that they

02:16:20.840 could give themselves more power do you think they should have more power yes or no i'm thinking

02:16:27.020 probably not they should probably not have more power yeah see this is kind of what he's saying

02:16:31.820 there he's like those in favor of central bank independence argue that central bankers should

02:16:36.960 be put above politicians because uh they are objective but the history of central banking

02:16:42.620 is littered with examples of central banks overstepping their powers and engaging in highly

02:16:48.300 politicized decisions which is what this entire story is about they should be put in the ground

02:16:54.140 they should be put in the ground i mean you could have a central bank that was completely political

02:16:57.820 like it was literally a branch of government that would be better than private central banks but the

02:17:03.460 best thing would be private banks just commercial just fucking commercial banks and we have we'll

02:17:09.160 talk about it next episode but we have all kinds of records i just lived in a country for 10 years

02:17:12.660 that has no central bank and has commercial banks only so it it happens well he also says like

02:17:16.820 Thomas Jefferson was a vehement opponent of central banks, and the U.S. Constitution therefore enshrines the right of the government to issue money.

02:17:24.100 Like, you could effectively have the same thing, but it just wouldn't be done by this central bank that operates with complete impunity.

02:17:32.560 Yeah. So it really Richard Werner, I think if I'm being as careful of a reader as I believe I am, he is he's not making the case that central banks should be independent and all powerful.

02:17:48.020 In fact, this is a case where through political intrigue, one stole that power and eventually reworked the entire Japanese economy by engineering recessions.

02:17:59.280 and he's careful to point out like you know these are people star people lose their fucking houses

02:18:03.100 like a recession is no joke it's not just a thing you can do to make things politically expedient

02:18:09.340 um and that that but that's what you get when you have central banks in too much control

02:18:14.780 but also i liked the story because it kind of goes against what a lot of people believe which

02:18:21.260 is that you know america just brainwashed japan into being the way it was it in a way it did

02:18:28.260 because japan wanted access to the global marketplace which is controlled by america

02:18:33.440 and so had to adhere to american rules uh yeah but also you know like i said some of the biggest

02:18:40.540 japanese companies like their biggest car manufacturers were all just wartime weapons

02:18:46.280 and jeep manufacturers well like i said i think i think you have a couple of cases here where

02:18:52.660 the their central banks have done the right thing for the wrong reasons and that helped but it would

02:18:57.880 be like obviously it's a shame for people to think that the only reason japan's seat is because of

02:19:02.820 us it's not true at all the japan's succeeded because of japan um but it's also just as tragic

02:19:08.220 to claim claim that japan's success over that 70-year period was because of their central bank

02:19:13.820 that's just as asinine the reason they succeeded again was because of japan was because of the

02:19:18.800 people and the culture and the society and the way that they work together because go ahead and try

02:19:23.860 that shit in any especially a western country you'd have absolute chaos you can't do that shit

02:19:29.560 it was japanese culture and and their beliefs and their principles that allowed them to actually

02:19:33.720 pull that off the central bank probably hurt them i think we would be we would be kowtowing to

02:19:39.180 japanese overlords right now if it weren't for the central bank hamstringing them in the 90s

02:19:44.780 yeah i remember you know i just also like the story of how they pivoted the purpose of the

02:19:52.460 corporation and the firm to not just be like i said that that line i wish we could do that to

02:19:58.860 be honest liberating the firm from its greedy shareholders and making it a different type of

02:20:03.440 entity is such again it's so counterintuitive to what you're turning it almost into like a into

02:20:09.480 like a militia it's something that like again we understand in the context of like an extended

02:20:13.260 family but they understand it on a civilizational level they're actually in some sense they're way

02:20:18.380 far ahead of us uh like civilizationally yeah i wish we could learn and also some people might

02:20:23.880 push back on this because maybe i'm just financially illiterate but i have no knee-jerk

02:20:29.360 hatred of cartels i have no hatred of like like that's what i just want our cartels yeah that's

02:20:34.900 like a guild like a guild is like all the guys are going to get together and like work on

02:20:39.420 figuring out our competition and our rules internally to make it best for everyone

02:20:44.720 it's just it's just a type of government like it's just a regional or like uh it's a government

02:20:49.300 where the region isn't geographic it's like a an industrial also that's all it is it's a type of

02:20:53.780 government if and also not to just always take it to this place but if you look at how even oswald

02:20:59.560 mosley and hitler and um mussolini or even qaddafi conceptualized their ideal political framework

02:21:08.520 they had sort of corporate guilds they had corporate cartels it was like everyone has

02:21:14.140 their own cartel and you lobby the government so i'm like yeah it's there seem to be different

02:21:19.340 iterations of this throughout time anyway we've gone on a bit too long with this

02:21:23.340 i hope this hope this one doesn't get us in trouble for you know no it was fresh this was

02:21:28.060 a beautiful ep thank you we took a week off we come back hot and cold and hot all right yep

02:21:34.140 all right i'll talk to you later

02:21:44.140 and maybe I seem a bit confused yeah maybe but I got you Craig

02:21:49.940 and I'm very very excited to be here with someone I've been a fan of for not the longest time but

02:21:59.120 I've been a powerful fan in a short amount of time it's a man by the name of Dan Baltic now

02:22:05.680 Dan Baltic is the author of the book Nutcranker published by Terror House Press he's also the

02:22:13.600 owner and proprietor of the baltic state on substack and is the host of the new right podcast

02:22:21.260 right as in writer which you can find at patreon slash new right which is a podcast i'm a great

02:22:27.180 fan of because it focuses on the literary talent and creative writing individuals within this sort

02:22:34.360 of political scene so if you're interested in fiction from our perspective check out the new

02:22:41.580 right podcast a lot of great interviews on there dan thank you for taking the time to speak with

02:22:46.140 me today absolutely it is great to be here on blood satellite i like you guys you have a good

02:22:54.260 uh good banter i know it's just you today but uh we will have a good time regardless

02:22:59.280 and i'm gonna let people know this guy's one of my top guys on twitter

02:23:03.080 he's always posting he's got we got a very similar sense of humor and you know that's

02:23:09.260 equal parts appreciation and seething jealousy you're getting from me well thank you thank you

02:23:15.880 it's um it's really twitter is something that i did not really realize i would like as much as i

02:23:24.000 do i got on mostly to promote nutcranker and promote new right and i just started like oh

02:23:32.300 well you know i could just post i don't have to post to promote my pod i can post other stuff too

02:23:37.640 and then it just I'm like oh this is actually a lot of fun and now I do it all the time and I'm

02:23:44.480 beginning to worry that it's reshaping my brain to think in aphorisms or some such thing you know

02:23:50.900 what's funny is that you are very much aligned with me and how we treat Twitter because there's

02:23:56.380 a lot of people especially in our scene that treat Twitter very seriously and it's a and

02:24:01.640 especially outside of our scene Twitter is like the top platform and just as an aside what's

02:24:06.800 interesting is i work in marketing um i was talking to some guys about this the other day

02:24:11.440 that twitter is the only social media platform that i can think of that has anything approaching

02:24:16.680 brand loyalty by which i mean even the people who despise it and loathe it can't stay away and if

02:24:23.460 you look at you know mastodon is a ghost town threads was hot for a minute and it's a fucking

02:24:29.440 graveyard now like it's people just keep coming back and that is not a loyalty that is experienced

02:24:36.560 by meta not not even really instagram not really and then you know the opposite of this would be

02:24:42.940 linkedin where everyone's on it but no one's really on it yeah at the same time you treat

02:24:48.820 twitter the same way i do which is i don't really treat that seriously to me and maybe it's my age

02:24:54.260 i'm in my 30s so maybe i come from a different sort of internet twitter was always a place just

02:24:59.560 to fuck around on yeah tourist place just to mess around to be a reply guy to say dumb shit and be

02:25:07.100 retarded on purpose and then every time i see you you're nut posted like a damn fool and i love it

02:25:14.040 yeah yeah i know it's um it just really lends itself nutcranker to all of these jokes

02:25:20.760 i you know i didn't even realize until their book was released and i'm like holy shit i can just

02:25:28.020 like nut post all day long and the jokes just keep coming and coming and you know it's i think

02:25:37.760 sorry i'm eating beef jerky no no that's welcome on this show but um yeah the end of it like

02:25:47.220 you know you have the you want to market you want to you know market your stuff but marketing is

02:25:56.280 like usually stuff that people don't want to listen to it's like it's almost always bad but

02:26:02.920 like if you are like personally invested in it the way i am in nutcranker and the title like

02:26:09.140 lends itself to all these types of jokes and you yourself have like turned yourself into a twitter

02:26:14.760 character marketing actually becomes fun and i mean i think people like genuinely like they

02:26:20.920 will retweet my my nut posts as it were so i think there is some like real enjoyment here

02:26:28.380 not just on my part but yeah my oomphies anyone can nut post you can do it irl i'm walking down

02:26:36.660 the street i'm walking down the block i see a lady getting arrested i say the cop he's getting that

02:26:42.960 nut he looks at me gives me he just looks me i can tell he's giving me an ontological high five

02:26:49.100 there we go so you know i guess that's a good place to start with your book nutcranker so i'd

02:26:56.520 like to talk about that um and we'll probably expand into uh the literary tradition broadly but

02:27:02.580 um i'd like you to talk a bit about your book there's a synopsis i read online i haven't read

02:27:07.600 it yet but you know boilerplate stuff what where is this book coming from and what's it about and

02:27:14.520 what what drove you to have to put pen to paper because it ain't easy people I say this as a guy

02:27:19.420 who did it it's nothing but misery and trepidation so what made you go through all that well I would

02:27:28.180 say that like you know there's some people who just you have it in you you need to get it out

02:27:35.280 and I you know I always knew that I mean I was always a writer I always knew I needed to you

02:27:42.140 know get my vision out there and um I started writing Nutcranker it actually started as a

02:27:50.280 short story and I kind of put it down because I was in the middle of a lot of work COVID hit

02:27:58.020 and my industry ground to a halt and I had a lot of free time so I started working on it about

02:28:05.800 three hours a day and got into the groove, as it were, and finished in around three months. So I

02:28:14.360 finished it the summer of 2020. And what is, you know, this is boring. I'm, you know, the point of

02:28:20.460 this is what is Nutcranker? Nutcranker is a, I like to describe it as a modern day confederacy

02:28:27.860 of Dunces. It's the story of this young man named Spencer Grunhauer, who is a sort of

02:28:36.640 edgelord, proto-edgelord. He, it's set in New York City in 2016 or so. He is very much like,

02:28:50.460 you know, as I said, Confederacy of Dunces, an Ignatius J. Reilly character in that he's going

02:28:56.380 through life. Rather, he's a right-wing reactionary of sorts, but his philosophy is rather muddled.

02:29:07.160 He, at times, seems like he might be a monarchist type or a Christian integralist. At other times,

02:29:18.660 he seems more back in like a vitalist and he in in any case he um he winds up uh fired from his

02:29:27.940 job he works at a non-profit they discover him writing his manifesto they confront him on it

02:29:34.080 and he can't help but like you know champion the manifesto when confronted and so he gets fired

02:29:40.020 And he's adrift and he seizes upon as a project to rehabilitate this woke, young, woke, progressive woman that he meets off of a BDSM site.

02:29:54.380 And he he in his mind is kind of like so his like overarching project is this kind of like treatise on the, you know, the ills of modernity and the, you know, the proposed solutions.

02:30:10.460 And so he takes this courtship with this young, woke Marxist type woman, and he integrates that in his mind into the project. So he justifies it to himself that this is how he should be spending his time.

02:30:28.040 And so he starts a romance with her. He winds up going to the the woman's march. You know, he wears a pussy hat. He he thinks that he is subverting her into the ways of patriarchy. It is actually more he who is he's not actually being subverted, but he is failing to subvert her.

02:30:48.360 and um and you know as you can imagine this is a relationship that does not stand the test of time

02:30:54.520 it blows apart he spirals from there and it's a kind of you you think it might go in a bit of an

02:31:03.180 elliot roger uh direction not quite it uh i don't want to ruin the ending but that looks like where

02:31:10.740 it's headed and i'll just say that you know you you might be surprised by the ending that sounds

02:31:17.720 like a very it's a sort of an amusing story would you say because i know he's described as sort of

02:31:22.300 like a surreal comedy would that be accurate yeah yeah i i would say it's you know it's essentially

02:31:28.100 it's a satire it's a satire of our times of you know both the kind of you know the the woke

02:31:39.340 progressive mainstream media environment but um you know also of a certain spergy type on the

02:31:46.880 the DR, who is the subject of the novel, Spencer Grunhauer. And my spiel on satire is that you

02:31:57.540 really have to have an affection for the subject of the satire to make it worthy of novelistic

02:32:08.140 treatment. So for instance, if I were to lampoon some leftist or progressive

02:32:16.660 or whatever it wouldn't really be a good novel it'd just be a kind of like biting send up but

02:32:24.320 this i i think you know most readers read this and it you know it probably makes the the left

02:32:30.600 uncomfortable because they're like this guy really has sympathy for the the main character uh the

02:32:36.140 you know the edgelord and the right you know i've you know generally it's it's people like

02:32:43.360 Nutcranker, but I, you know, I know that some are maybe a little uncomfortable about the fact

02:32:48.740 that I've lampooned, you know, one of our own in some sense. But, you know, you need to have a

02:32:55.400 sense of humor about yourself. Well, it also shows that you've got some awareness of not only

02:33:01.220 yourself, but the political milieu you're in. Because I was going to mention that for the

02:33:06.400 fiction that I see broadly in our scene, there seems to be overwhelmingly two flavors. And

02:33:13.300 You can correct me if I'm wrong.

02:33:14.920 One is sort of a dystopian style fiction where we talk about what happens if modernity goes unchecked and everyone's trans and it works for an AI.

02:33:25.000 Then there's, I find a lot about relationships.

02:33:29.820 I would say most of the stuff I've seen recently, especially from a lot of the guys more adjacent to like delicious tacos and whatnot.

02:33:37.300 It's about women.

02:33:38.360 A lot of it's about women.

02:33:39.180 It's about relationships.

02:33:39.860 It's about the relationships between men and women.

02:33:42.820 And that seems to be a popular theme.

02:33:45.280 I'm not saying that's wrong in any way, but A, does that sound accurate?

02:33:50.080 And B, I guess, what do you make of that?

02:33:52.140 It's mainly men and it's mainly about this sort of dysfunctional relationship sort of thing.

02:33:58.600 So I think this is actually pretty interesting because you have kind of the two strands that you described are essentially both different types of literature, maybe even different types of writers or political sensibilities, but both are excluded from the mainstream.

02:34:24.360 So you have kind of dystopian sci-fi that is predicated on the idea generally that the lib-woke establishment agenda has destroyed the world, more or less.

02:34:43.800 And this is obviously something that is not really acceptable in the mainstream.

02:34:48.360 I mean, you can have sci-fi, you can have, you know, the world has been destroyed by capitalism or whatever, but you can't have like, you know, the type of zero HP stuff where it's, you know, essentially there's a through line between Turbo America and, you know, Turbo GAE and decline.

02:35:14.760 That's obviously not something that's going to fly in the mainstream publishing industry.

02:35:20.120 By the same token, stuff like Delicious Tacos, stuff like Nutcranker, Nutcranker even more so.

02:35:27.740 But Tacos is, frankly, his writing isn't very political.

02:35:32.160 He's just writing about being a man.

02:35:37.260 Being a straight man from a kind of honest perspective.

02:35:43.080 And that in today's environment is not acceptable because it will inevitably be read as misogynistic or sexist or whatever. And I don't think that's true.

02:35:56.940 I mean, I think actually, you know, Tacos' writing probably suggests that he's, and he himself would say that he loves women. And I think he probably does. And, you know, it's just normal male sexuality has become coded as misogynistic. And so that too is not acceptable in this kind of NPR mainstream publishing industry.

02:36:24.260 it yeah i think um one of the precursors to that and i'm probably dating myself here but i remember

02:36:31.020 mike moss harassment architecture dealt very similar themes like really that book is mainly

02:36:36.580 about just like a a guy lost in modernity complaining about all these bitches he surrounded

02:36:41.860 himself with uh and various women and bartenders and baristas he wants to slaughter and whatnot

02:36:48.860 But I'm like, that's it's because it comes back to this idea I was wondering that. I'd love to hear your take on this. It's a very interesting literary scene. And there seems to be two paths that it could go down and maybe go down both.

02:37:02.680 But one would be towards what we might call mainstream legitimacy, where we start, let's write seriously and try to appeal to the mainstream publishers and that audience.

02:37:15.520 Or we do what arguably a lot of the leftists did in the 90s and the anarchists did, which is double down on the irreverence, try and craft an unapologetic style, try and exist apart from the mainstream, but generate your own thing.

02:37:31.420 and just kind of live apart and when i look at a lot of art writing some people say oh it seems

02:37:36.880 it's not polished it's not it's a bit of rough around the edges to which i would say well that's

02:37:42.220 that's good you know why how many does need two editors is it better if it's a first draft

02:37:49.080 that's another thing like you know going back to the beat generation like a william s burroughs

02:37:54.240 so i'm wondering like for the scene because you've spoken to on the new right podcast you've spoken to

02:37:59.920 quite a few individuals. I know you spoke to Lomez, an individual that I've spoken to and I'm

02:38:05.520 friendly with, talking about rewilding, talking about creating this upspring. That's not a real

02:38:13.500 word anyway, but you know what I mean. I'm like, how much should we be our own thing and how much

02:38:19.100 should we try and pursue legitimacy, I suppose? And that's a very large question and then a

02:38:23.100 meandering one, but I'm wondering if you have any thoughts. Well, I think to the extent that

02:38:28.880 legitimacy would involve cucking on um questions of authenticity questions of like like if delicious

02:38:39.460 tacos had to like you know be like oh you can't say i want to you know splooge in her you know

02:38:49.020 tight little you know asian pussy go on that uh you know that i assume that's okay i saw you're

02:38:59.120 on odyssey so oh yeah yeah you get way worse than that so uh like i mean i if if that is what like

02:39:07.520 legitimacy is then like yeah you you can't cuck on that i mean i think that there is perhaps a um

02:39:17.200 There is something to be said for further cultivation of, in some instances, of quality.

02:39:25.500 And, you know, it's not unreasonable that or it's very understandable that this situation has occurred because the right has not really participated in art or literature meaningfully for a long time.

02:39:47.880 We've been really checked out.

02:39:49.140 So what has happened is you have people who are just picking up the pen for the first time, and that's great. They absolutely should do that because they're bringing the perspectives that the mainstream are not saying or representing.

02:40:09.200 That being said, I mean, I do think that it's not a matter of conferring extra legitimacy. I don't think that we should kind of hone our writing to make it better.

02:40:31.200 better. I don't think we should hone it to make it better to gain acceptance from the mainstream

02:40:36.220 because I don't think we will because of politics. But I do think that there's a wide variety of

02:40:43.700 literature out there on our side of the internet. And all of it is great in the sense that this is

02:40:51.720 someone who's taking time out of, certainly, and it's always a he pretty much, someone who has a

02:41:00.620 job or whatever and is taking time out of his life to write that's amazing that's like that's

02:41:06.600 really hard to do and that's great and we want to encourage that but we also want to encourage

02:41:13.280 further cultivation so like when um people talk about like patronage and sponsorship networks

02:41:23.400 I think Michael Anton wrote an essay where he talked about how Bonfire of the Vanities and Tom Wolfe's writing would have never really – Tom Wolfe would have never had the opportunity to perfect his writing if not for various grants and whatever.

02:41:44.280 So he didn't have to work a day job and he could just write.

02:41:48.360 And so I think our thing, our side of the internet, we need to develop patronage. And I mean, that's like a political thing across the board, we need to develop patronage, but especially in the arts, so we can allow people who are talented to further hone their craft.

02:42:08.500 So we can produce novels that not only are vital and say, you know, important truths that, you know, the cupped mainstream won't say, that also are, you know, just tremendous novels and very good.

02:42:26.540 it's interesting you say that because you know i don't want to get off into a political tangent

02:42:32.620 here but you know to use the parlance that people be familiar more you would almost need to separate

02:42:37.820 it from a capitalistic mindset because just me thinking now about okay who are the candidates

02:42:43.340 the moneyed people on on the right broadly who would do this they would be allergic to it because

02:42:49.200 they would say well what's the return on investment now and you need a way longer time horizon

02:42:54.680 or something like this so you would almost need to reframe it as extreme venture capital

02:42:59.180 like get in early on this really interesting mind and maybe in 15 years yeah you know which

02:43:07.360 for venture capital isn't that bad really to see a return on investment so like maybe there's a way

02:43:11.420 to phrase it where it's like the only way again i think you need to really work that into the right

02:43:18.400 because it's that comes naturally to a lot of people on the left broadly but on our side there's

02:43:24.580 still a hostility to that sort of thing. Maybe not in our specific niche, but I'm agreeing with

02:43:31.040 what you're saying. I'm trying to figure out ways to do it. Yarvin had a really good essay about this

02:43:37.180 called Acorns for the Culture War. That was actually the name of an event that New Wright

02:43:43.900 put on with Yarvin and Pichiquinan and Lomez and delicious tacos in LA. And yeah, I mean,

02:43:54.860 essentially in this essay, Yarvin went on about how this is, you know, a kind of an opportunity

02:44:02.580 for, as you say, a sort of extreme venture capital where the money you outlay today,

02:44:09.420 you will you know it might take 20 years but that the kind of like events like that one acorns for

02:44:18.620 the culture war which new right put on with um the passage in in la or reading but all sorts of

02:44:26.700 readings taking place in la and new york wherever like this is you know go go back you know 50 years

02:44:35.040 60 years these are like the the readings that the beats were having and you know this is where

02:44:42.800 you know this is yarvin's contention but i i largely co-sign on it this is the future of

02:44:49.520 culture this is where culture is being formed because the the mainstream is just too um you

02:44:57.180 know the kind of uh censorious nature of he would probably just say it's fake and gay if i know him

02:45:03.980 Yeah, it's fake and gay, the mainstream. So as a result, nothing good in terms of art can be produced there. So the future of art necessarily, I think, has to come from the outside.

02:45:19.140 So anyone investing in these parties, investing in paying, you know, giving someone a grant to write a novel that you believe in, like that is, you know, that's venture capital that you might not see the reward for 20 years.

02:45:37.200 But then in the history books, it'll say that, you know, so-and-so paid so-and-so to write this novel and, you know, and it'll be like an important novel.

02:45:48.700 Another way to do it would be, again, I'm hesitant to keep looking towards the past for examples of how to do this, but I'm an old head, so I like to.

02:45:57.440 You would think that if you do this patronage setup with enough people, you could develop enough authors to then create your own literary magazine of voices that you have curated yourself.

02:46:10.740 like there there are ways i'm trying to think of ways for lack of a better term to monetize it

02:46:15.700 um in the long term and not have ownership but like you like the acorn analogy you are

02:46:21.760 creating as a self-contained scene it's not one acorn for an entire scene you're setting up like

02:46:27.440 20 other ones and each patron kind of gets their own absolutely yeah um i was gonna say something

02:46:35.600 that um as you were saying that this is something i'd thought about before which is and i'll start

02:46:41.220 with the question i'll say what i'm going to say then i'll ask you a question the question is um

02:46:45.580 how did you get into nutcranker in the sense that was this your first book have you always

02:46:50.900 been a writer have you always wanted to be an author and the reason i ask is because

02:46:56.020 i noticed because i was writing short stories for a long long long time and i've been published

02:47:01.100 had short stories under different names published in different places and I found that there's a

02:47:07.120 lot of people in writing who just want to be an author which is its own thing it's like you don't

02:47:13.180 really care what you write but you want to be an author and that's how you get in this position

02:47:16.400 where you're just kind of churning out garbage every year and you can say to your friends and

02:47:20.500 family I make a living being an author but it's derivative sci-fi or it's just romance novels

02:47:26.100 Just crank crank those out. And yeah, you can make a living. And that's the prestige one gets. But is it really substantive? On the other hand, I was I'm more interested in people who are never writers, but are learning how to write because I think you will find more interesting and radical minds that way, rather than trying to convince someone who wants to be an author to write something interesting.

02:47:50.320 and in terms of investments or this sort of cultural venture capital you would want to

02:47:56.540 identify people who maybe never ever written before and just because it's easier to teach

02:48:02.300 them how to write decently than to teach a great writer someone who's written for 20 years to write

02:48:06.520 something cool yeah no I'm agreed there with regard to kind of how I got here it was

02:48:17.000 um i kind of i so i do have a background in writing i have uh i was an english and creative

02:48:27.260 writing minor english major creative writing minor and uh so you're a nerd like me not good

02:48:33.600 to know yeah yeah and uh so i i always you know since i was little i wrote i graduated from

02:48:41.760 college i produced some comedy videos when i was i had a real job too but was doing that on the side

02:48:50.220 went to law school it kind of like dropped away but so essentially what what happened was like as

02:48:58.520 you know the culture began to change the woke stuff came to the forefront trump ran and i kind

02:49:07.300 of realized okay my like lib friends are all like you know freaking out and no one seems to have

02:49:16.980 like the be able to see what's actually going on among my friends they just they seem to have a

02:49:22.720 sense and this was like turbocharged in the you know the 2020 with floyd and covid and everything

02:49:29.240 And I kind of realized, okay, among my, like, lib university friends, they have no idea what's actually happening. And no one's writing a novel about what's actually happening. So I better do this, just because, you know, I can, you know, I have the ability to see what's actually going on.

02:49:55.640 And I'm like, you know, in my own mind, I thought, well, okay, I'm like almost the only person that I know who could write this. So I need to write it. And when I knew that I was on the right track was my, you know, first drafts, like the first 50 pages, the first, you know, the next, the next 50 pages, whatever.

02:50:17.840 I was sharing with my one of my law school friends who is, despite being a pretty intelligent guy, very like groey, groey dude.

02:50:30.120 He is a college basketball player, not exceptionally literary, not not woke, obviously.

02:50:39.740 And so he was reading this and he was just very enthusiastic, just saying, like, this is like nothing I've ever read.

02:50:47.840 You need to, you know, publish this. And so that kind of served as a positive case study. And I realized, okay, I think I have something here.

02:50:59.660 that's a great way of looking at it because especially in my own life you know there's

02:51:05.180 always you're torn between do i want to write something that impresses the people who are

02:51:10.740 experts at reading things but or do i want to appeal more to people who who don't read who

02:51:16.740 essentially say what you were saying which is like i'm not i'm not a guy who reads but

02:51:19.860 i've never seen anything like this and and that sort of excitement i think is a bit more interesting

02:51:26.820 to me and i think that might be because we're always you know for people who are wondering

02:51:32.900 anyone who's ever started a small press or a small publishing industry there's so many

02:51:37.640 hoops you have to jump through and there's so many forms you have to fill out and there's so

02:51:42.520 much bullshit you got to go through to exist in the traditional publishing ecosystem um you almost

02:51:48.580 you need to either send a lot of emails and familiarize yourself and go to book fairs and

02:51:54.320 know the right people and just to kind of make it in that ecosystem where it's just those people

02:52:00.440 I was talking about those authors who are grinding away and no one they're playing a game it's all a

02:52:04.600 game but then you're thinking like that audience is established that audience is you know they're

02:52:10.960 the ones who are always going to be they're like the tour reader if you're in sci-fi tour like the

02:52:15.960 people who are just in that ecosystem but to me is it more valuable just like we're trying to get

02:52:20.760 more radical minds who might not be established writers. Is it more interesting and more

02:52:25.840 financially beneficial for us to seek out completely different audiences, people who

02:52:32.420 don't lead and try and figure out new ways to get them? And that's something I've been thinking

02:52:37.220 about a lot recently. And what do you think about that? I mean, absolutely. Yeah. I think that

02:52:43.320 the so the readers for nutcranker are almost entirely men my uh my ex-girlfriend when i gave

02:52:53.620 her nutcranker one of the early drafts she started crying halfway through it so obviously i i had to

02:53:00.940 break up with her but um was the tears of joy were they good tears i know no they were not

02:53:07.120 but uh my my current girlfriend got through it and she's just like uh okay

02:53:13.680 and i mean that's as much as i could hope for really like a woman tolerating that cranker

02:53:20.900 that's you know that's that's fine the best review you can get from a spouse or a girlfriend is

02:53:27.220 i don't get it yeah well that's that was kind of the review from her uh and that that's that's

02:53:35.840 fine but like nutcranker obviously has resonated with a lot of young men and i mean i think it's

02:53:42.800 not young men who are not literary it's just like you know young men and men in general are not

02:53:51.040 going to be part of the like literary fiction scene because with the exception of wellbeck

02:53:59.680 this author david salzay a few others um there's just not really and almost all of these are like

02:54:08.520 legacy writers who already you know they're gonna get published because they've been published

02:54:14.560 um there's very little out there that would entice like a straight man to to read so i want to write

02:54:24.020 books for them and be not necessarily for men who never read for men who are like oh I liked

02:54:31.660 Hemingway I liked Confederacy of Dunces I like Catch-22 but no one writes anything like that

02:54:39.020 anymore well like now we are now we're writing that stuff again and so that's like you know

02:54:46.120 that's what I want to bring back. Yeah. And I got a question for you. So

02:54:52.420 one thing, I guess we'll start with a bold statement and then we'll just go from there.

02:54:58.160 The bold statement is that I don't see anything right now that is electrifying about how people

02:55:07.100 consume writing. And I'll explain what I mean by that. So I might be dating myself here because

02:55:13.340 i'm in my 30s i'm in one of these these old fucks yeah i'm 37 so there you go because this

02:55:21.280 will sound really lame to a lot of younger people but there was a time when blogging was really

02:55:27.520 really exciting and new and fresh um and now you know blogging is something that you call the

02:55:34.380 fucking crisis hotline you see someone blogging right but but you know the most exciting thing

02:55:40.500 right now and that was electrifying it was cool it's people anyone could be a writer and there's

02:55:44.000 this whole ecosystem that popped up and being a blogger for a hot minute was kind of a trendy

02:55:49.560 thing in la and new york and all the cultural uh hubs and then i when i look around now the closest

02:55:56.760 i can see something like that would be substack but this might sound controversial but i'm gonna

02:56:03.320 say it because it tastes good to say it substack seems more like a last hurrah of this sort of old

02:56:12.840 this thing that's dying because substack i got nothing against substack and a lot of great many

02:56:19.320 people i admire on substack but it seems like a place like for people who couldn't get published

02:56:25.120 to like make a last stand to monetize something like it's for journalists who lost their jobs

02:56:29.380 and they because the pump that journalism industry can't figure out how to fucking make money

02:56:33.520 and it's for writers who are like trying to just scrape money together but it feels like

02:56:37.540 if this goes away like what's it doesn't have that sort of vivacity to really get people excited

02:56:44.880 about reading and i like substack but so do you i'm sure but we're kind of weirdos you know we're

02:56:50.800 kind of you know and it's it's great but i'm trying to think of what is there a future that

02:56:57.480 really reinvigorates the the regular people the audiences to get electrified about reading fiction

02:57:03.960 and if you think about you know this is probably a reductive example but you think like dickens and

02:57:10.020 they used to put short stories in the newspapers and things like that i'm like yeah but but that

02:57:13.700 was seeking out a new that was a new format for p being where people are and getting them interested

02:57:19.340 in what in your minds um as someone who's in my opinion an expert on the scene do you

02:57:25.300 see any spaces or anything that really kind of excites you or something that off the top

02:57:31.760 of your head can really get people involved like that like people outside of our scene

02:57:36.080 i think and this is kind of a uh a if not uh trite and then over um you know certainly i'm

02:57:45.900 not the first person to say this but the so-called vibe shift of um women actually coming to you

02:57:52.860 know right-wing parties and um having like you know posting pictures of themselves with that book

02:57:59.440 like that is um that does and will draw people in that's i've never heard that before that's

02:58:08.260 very interesting i'd love to really dwell oh yeah well because especially you know maybe i've

02:58:13.600 advocated for that i've advocated for the value of women and making a scene cool for lack of a

02:58:22.100 Yeah. But I'm sure you could probably explain it in a better way or and I guess we can go maybe into a bit of detail about these parties you're talking about for the passage press and whatnot.

02:58:32.620 Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, like any scene that you want to be a part of, if there are no women in the scene, that's really that's really tough.

02:58:42.180 that's that's not something that's going to have a lot of staying power so the you know just in

02:58:50.640 order for men to want to you know become like part of a kind of culture or part of the scene

02:58:59.760 you you want to at least believe that this scene at the at the very least will not like preclude

02:59:06.180 you for getting laid you you want to believe like oh i'm i belong to this you know club and be like

02:59:15.520 oh well we hate you you can't get any pussy that's that's not something that like is that's a real

02:59:23.280 detriment that's a real barrier and so like for instance i've i took uh you know i've taken people

02:59:31.940 to these kind of like literary event parties and you know i mean obviously at these you know

02:59:37.140 debure ball type things these readings in new york city that is not full of right-wing people

02:59:43.620 you know it's just it's full of people who like literature some are right-wing or whatever

02:59:48.900 but um it's something that many people have told me they're just surprised that there are

02:59:58.320 attractive women there and how many attractive women there are there and that is something that

03:00:04.260 is like a huge selling point because it you know it shows that there's cultural power behind this

03:00:14.500 so like essentially my you know thinking here is once you know the attractive women show up

03:00:23.660 then there's a certain uh patina of uh credibility that it confers on a scene and it's kind of like

03:00:32.240 well that scene has legs that scene has a future it has a viability and so like is substack

03:00:43.100 moribund maybe yes maybe no i couldn't really say um i mean but i think what is clear is that

03:00:52.040 the npr set the kind of like mainstream publishing industry that is moribund like despite whatever

03:01:00.180 money they have despite whatever you know it's just it's all running on fumes it's all running

03:01:06.760 on like to the the line to get into the um acorns for the culture war party that like stretched

03:01:15.380 around the block and i don't i don't think the line for you know any of these like

03:01:22.020 penguin author writes a book about like how to offend men or something like i don't think that

03:01:31.980 you know book release party is gonna have a line around the block so yeah i mean i think

03:01:39.100 definitely kind of translating this energy into so-called meat space getting women involved

03:01:47.900 that creates a sort of um you know um a certain amount of energy a certain baseline of energy

03:01:56.180 that then translates into well i want to see what's going on here i want to see what

03:02:01.860 you know i want to buy bat book i want to buy nutcranker i want to buy delicious tacos as books

03:02:08.680 because people want to be part of something that is rebellious that is edgy and like right now

03:02:15.640 this scene is it so like there's a lot of issues with sub stack it's like you know it's kind of

03:02:24.000 like it's not going to replace magazines exactly it's not going to replace physical books but nor

03:02:32.400 should it i see it as kind of a um a kind of uh halfway point between getting our own books out

03:02:42.420 there getting our own magazines out there and so not to like shill too much but like passage press

03:02:49.240 is doing a great job of this they put out uh on qualified reservations by yarvin it looks fantastic

03:02:56.180 like it's a real book book you know my publisher terror house press they do a great job they've

03:03:03.440 been doing it since like 2017 before anyone else and they do a great job too i love the cover of

03:03:10.580 nutcranker that's probably moved more copies than anything else covers by matt lawrence incredibly

03:03:16.540 talented guy and um yeah just you know man's world man's world is you know they have their

03:03:24.060 annuals they're kind of reinvigorating the magazine form so we have these products these

03:03:33.800 you know that are that are coming out and yeah i see sub stack is it's kind of like a lifeline

03:03:39.680 for it's the same thing as like patreon in a sense it's you know a lifeline for people who

03:03:46.040 are independent creators who are not accepted by the mainstream but the goal is not to stay on

03:03:52.980 sub stack the goal is not to stay on patreon necessarily the goal is to eventually move to

03:04:00.920 um well now we're we're buying uh books from passage press but they're in barnes and noble

03:04:08.520 now we're we're buying um you know we're we're downloading um episodes of new right but um

03:04:18.180 where well fuck i guess patreon is still like a good you know i don't know i don't know how the

03:04:23.320 podcast scene is gonna you know shake out but uh that's something that works kind of working on in

03:04:29.640 a in a sense as well the podcasting sorry i i really like what you were saying there um and

03:04:35.080 it seems to kind of verifies this thing that i've been saying for a while now and maybe i take it a

03:04:41.600 bit too far, but I'll say it anyway, which is I think I'm more interested in ways for us to

03:04:48.460 decouple completely from the digital space. And there's a couple of reasons why that. I'll try

03:04:53.920 not to go on too much of a tangent here. But like I said, I work in marketing and my entire career

03:04:59.040 I've spent over a decade in marketing. And when I got into it, everything was about digital

03:05:04.300 marketing and telling everyone to get out of traditional marketing. And I was sort of this

03:05:09.060 lone voice for a long time saying that I don't think you should, you know, just like, because

03:05:13.800 everyone's saying everything's going to be on Facebook in the future. Everything's going to be

03:05:16.600 on Twitter in the future. And, you know, there's many clients that I work with that we needed to

03:05:21.640 use billboards. We needed radio ads were the best, especially if you're going after boomers,

03:05:26.960 newspaper ads still have value. But, you know, there's this idea that everything needs to be

03:05:31.360 digital. And I, I've always had one foot out of that world, seeing the value and having a presence

03:05:38.320 in what we call meat space and like when you start a little publishing company because i started one

03:05:44.440 of these outfits when i was in my early 20s selling a self-published book and i did it

03:05:49.760 i i hit the bricks i was at book fairs i was going to bookstores i was ringing them up getting my book

03:05:55.880 on shelves and i haven't been doing that recently but i think i'm going to start

03:06:00.040 furthermore i'm finding the digital space is increasingly hostile to people like us and it

03:06:07.460 seems to me to be a matter of time on one hand there's de-platforming on another hand you know

03:06:13.280 we discussed this on the show a while ago um it might be a conspiratorial thing but heaven banning

03:06:19.620 um but like most conspiracies the question isn't is it happening now it's why wouldn't it happen

03:06:26.400 and heaven banning is basically using various algorithms convincing people for example like

03:06:33.020 us that they're still on the platform, but they're only dealing with bots. And the bots are of such

03:06:38.420 a level of sophistication, they can't tell the real people. So you kind of sequester dissident

03:06:44.160 and radical minds in sort of this padded room of fake upvotes, which is something that people

03:06:49.460 found on Twitter. Elon Musk takes over and all their followers turn out to be bots. So it is

03:06:54.180 possible. But there seemed to be a future I can envision where the digital space becomes not just

03:07:01.800 hostile but you will need confirmation that whoever you're talking to is a real person

03:07:06.600 and the only way to do that both politically and creatively would be to meet people in real life

03:07:12.800 have real networks in the real world and when i hear you talk about these the success you're seeing

03:07:21.140 with these parties with these events with these readings with all that that to me is more exciting

03:07:26.780 than finding a new marketplace to sell the book.

03:07:29.620 And maybe I'm too out there with my thinking,

03:07:32.120 but my mind starts thinking like,

03:07:34.160 fuck, can we just replace Amazon with that?

03:07:37.140 Like fuck having books on Amazon, period.

03:07:39.660 Is there just a way to hypercharge

03:07:41.520 these experiential events

03:07:43.360 and just be like musicians?

03:07:45.560 Every musician knows they make all their money on tour.

03:07:49.040 Is that the future for us?

03:07:50.820 Is it tripling down on Meetspace

03:07:53.580 and using the digital world

03:07:54.660 as almost just a form of advertising,

03:07:56.340 not really a revenue stream per se that's kind of a long thing but yeah yeah yeah i think for

03:08:03.580 writers it's going to be some combination because like as much as you want to like sell books at an

03:08:11.600 event books are heavy it's it's hard to like you know transport them all to an event and it's just

03:08:20.420 You know, unfortunately or fortunately, due to the kind of monopoly that Amazon has on commerce, it's just so easy to, you know, and, you know, this place is obviously a kind of censorship risk, because if you're, you know, delisted by Amazon, you're, you know, really messed up financially.

03:08:42.700 but um it's just so easy to like for instance i have a reviewer that i i'm going to send a

03:08:50.040 copy of nutcranker i have um i have a ton of nutcrankers in my apartment i my apartment is

03:08:56.580 full of nutcrankers but to get to the post office and you know send this it's gonna you know the

03:09:05.300 post office is like a mile walk and even in new york city it's a mile walk i have to get there

03:09:12.140 i have to wait online i have to i have other stuff to do i'm a lawyer so it's just it's easier for me

03:09:17.860 to go on amazon and just send him this for like you know 12 bucks so like amazon and the online

03:09:26.100 marketplace that will i think that's just that's commerce today unfortunately that's just that's

03:09:33.440 here to stay but i think the vitality that these live events bring like the the whole reason why

03:09:40.340 people buy it on online is because of the buzz created by this real life stuff that's my sense

03:09:49.560 no i agree completely and i i don't have too much experience with these sorts of readings

03:09:55.660 that's why i find it so interesting right now um and maybe i guess you need to be

03:10:03.760 in or near a cultural center an urban center like new york like la the only two places i

03:10:10.040 could think of in canada where you could do something similar would be toronto vancouver

03:10:14.800 and montreal actually would probably be i would put montreal maybe above toronto but that's yeah

03:10:20.120 yeah um now i was wondering um and you know first of all i think nutcranker was that be

03:10:30.100 like your first published book or did you have anything prior to that that's my first yeah i

03:10:35.880 mean like i had like short stories published in like college literary magazines but yeah nutcranker

03:10:42.240 is my first actual published novel i'm wondering based on um your time in the scene i know you're

03:10:50.460 like me where you like you see writing a book as the thing you should be doing and i've got a great

03:10:55.940 appreciation and affection for the novel but a friend of mine i'm sure you're aware of him dave

03:11:01.400 martel you know sure yeah runs biz archives and he's a big advocate i agree with him that the

03:11:08.000 novel is dead i think you were talking to maybe lomez or someone else but like the death of the

03:11:12.300 they've been saying the novel is dead forever um and he's a great advocate of the short story

03:11:17.720 i'm wondering what your thoughts on that are um going forward do you see the novel as staying

03:11:24.660 around it's something people are always going to be interested in or do you think that i suppose

03:11:30.020 fiction taking a different sort of form? I don't really think the novel is dead. I think it's just

03:11:37.880 more a function of the people who have something interesting to say are mostly people outside of

03:11:46.500 the mainstream. The people outside of the mainstream are not doing this for a living.

03:11:52.900 they have other jobs so writing a novel is a um it's a big ask it's it takes a lot of energy

03:12:01.200 so you know frankly until we have a sort of like donor class that creates mfa programs for based

03:12:11.000 people we're just not gonna have that many novels that being said i don't think it's dead because

03:12:18.720 like i enjoy short stories but you know there there are certain obvious advantages to a novel

03:12:26.580 you spend more time with the character you get to you know explore greater you know emotional

03:12:33.400 depth with the character so yeah no i i don't think it's dead i think the issue is just that

03:12:42.480 We need, you know, certain circumstances that are not, you know, really present right now to have a class of like good novels coming out.

03:12:57.840 And, you know, hopefully they will be soon.

03:13:01.120 And I am like, for instance, I wrote Nutcranker and I, you know, people are enjoying it.

03:13:09.040 It's a novel.

03:13:10.180 i i want to um i'm writing nutcranker too it's tough because you know i wrote nutcranker during

03:13:20.660 an economic downturn i had a lot of free time and i just don't have that free time right now

03:13:29.060 i mean i could just kind of say like oh yeah i don't need this money i can you know i'm essentially

03:13:35.500 in in practice for myself so as a lawyer so I could just say no to money and I could just be

03:13:45.860 like oh yeah this is the you know four hours a day I'm not making money and I'm gonna have a much

03:13:51.500 lower income this year I'm gonna write another novel but that's just it's a it's a tough thing

03:13:56.860 to take on. And, you know, so it's, you know, it's hard going. But I think the there's a long

03:14:05.440 winded way of saying that I think the novel is not dead. I think present circumstances

03:14:11.420 make it difficult for people to write novels. That is true. And I suppose that's where you

03:14:17.800 would need something like a patronage network. And I think a lot of people in our scene are in

03:14:24.380 the same boat i know i am as well like i was you know i was getting kind of greedy i was working a

03:14:29.280 full-time job at the time and i was just writing and editing while i was at work yeah i was in a

03:14:34.840 position where like no one was i'm sort of like a middle management level no one was looking over

03:14:38.580 my shoulder and i work in marketing so it's a creative industry i could always like i could

03:14:44.060 bullshit my way to how this is related to work because they yeah they don't know what the fuck

03:14:49.020 i'm writing i could be writing a article um i'm really interested in the in the patronage network

03:14:55.400 idea though absolutely because you know i suppose that's what patreon was supposed to be and if

03:15:02.740 patreon is because the idea of crowdfunding was a very popular idea in the 2010s that the wisdom

03:15:10.760 of the crowd will act as some sort of invisible hand and allocate money but it seemed money was

03:15:16.520 allocated to the wrong sorts of people. And I really do think you just need one moneyed

03:15:22.500 individual to do it. Like, I don't think people are impressed by even the idea of crowdfunding

03:15:27.780 anymore. My take on that is that crowdfunding is, um, you know, it can potentially work very well,

03:15:38.560 but it works very well in very limited circumstances. So for instance, like Red

03:15:44.800 scare those girls are making a lot of money but uh you know frankly they're making they they are

03:15:51.140 good i like red scare but they're making money because they're right-wing girls and that uh

03:15:59.620 yeah that's you know not replicable for everyone now you have like another example like the good

03:16:06.900 old boys they're not doing nearly as well but they are making okay money crowdfunding and such

03:16:13.880 like they're on patreon but those guys are busting their asses they're on patreon they're on twitch

03:16:20.440 they're on i don't know they're doing other stuff too they're like you know squeezing every penny

03:16:26.600 out of the rock there um and good for them they're you know they're they're great it's one of my

03:16:32.980 favorite pods i'm a subscriber i'm a patron but um what we're talking about here is uh patronage

03:16:41.480 for something that is not like an immediate, like, oh, well, I give you $5 a month and I get

03:16:48.320 access to your pods. It's more, you give me $100,000 and I write a novel. That's a very

03:16:59.760 different situation. So what you need there is you need, you know, I mean, look, Peter Thiel did it

03:17:08.960 for uh tech guys with his like don't go to college i'll give you a hundred grand

03:17:14.500 yeah why why doesn't uh teal do it for artists too and i mean i know there's the whole thing

03:17:20.440 about teal bucks but uh you know it it seems that and you know i certainly do not underrate

03:17:26.720 you know to whatever extent he has supported or funded this scene but i'm just saying that a

03:17:34.240 a, you know, scholarship program for outsider writers, that could prove just as valuable as

03:17:45.540 a scholarship program for outsider tech bros. Yeah, I wonder if there's opportunities to look

03:17:53.240 for investment capital outside of North America. And that sounds like it would be inviting trouble.

03:17:59.100 But, you know, there might be an angle to that, that we haven't really looked at,

03:18:03.240 Because I know a lot of people have said, we need a Peter Thiel for X or Y or whatever it might be.

03:18:09.940 I'm like, they got to be out there.

03:18:11.620 And I was just thinking of one of the barriers to this.

03:18:16.540 And I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush here for my fellow scenesters.

03:18:22.480 But I find that a lot of our colleagues are not, they're still not really sold on the value of culture itself.

03:18:30.900 Now, we might all complain about this thing called woke culture. We'll complain about modernity. We'll complain about there's a lot of culture we complain about and we will make sort of broad gestures to the value of tradition and the value of culture.

03:18:46.020 There doesn't seem to be any interest in where the rubber meets the road, where, you know, like how does culture generate? Because it isn't just, you know, the dissident right broadly is very anti-populist, except when it comes to culture and then just believes culture is populist.

03:19:03.100 it just generates from nowhere and there are no influencers there are no tastemakers there is no

03:19:08.660 capital that needs to be applied there it's just in the absence of woke we just make stuff and it

03:19:14.220 sorts itself out so i you know i'm not talking about you guys over there specifically but in

03:19:19.160 other places you know the idea of something like this would still strike them as kind of kind of

03:19:25.360 alien kind of strange but you know maybe now more than ever i think there's people ready to accept

03:19:31.120 that like you need investment

03:19:33.820 and you need to find out

03:19:34.960 where the money is coming from

03:19:36.420 and find out where the money is

03:19:37.920 and go get it

03:19:39.260 because it's not going to just fall in your lap.

03:19:41.460 And it's certainly not going to fall in your lap

03:19:43.160 if you're doing something good.

03:19:44.740 That's not how it works.

03:19:45.840 Like you need to advocate for yourself.

03:19:48.040 You need to get eyeballs on the scene

03:19:49.800 and kind of let people,

03:19:51.820 I guess, communicate.

03:19:53.760 Like if you got a million dollars today

03:19:56.960 or I got a million dollars,

03:19:58.240 what would what would that benefit that individual in 10 years like where are we going where do we

03:20:04.540 think we're going do we have a plan do we actually want to make a stamp on this culture you know these

03:20:11.100 are sort of just a shotgun questions but um i think it's a very it's interesting things that

03:20:16.780 people should ask themselves because um one thing that we talk about on the show

03:20:21.000 and i talk about quite a bit just in everyday conversation it's that we don't really know what

03:20:27.600 to do when we win we don't really have a game plan if we get everything that we want and that's

03:20:32.180 one thing i worry about with this scene um yeah you know that let's say we get everything we want

03:20:38.020 and it does become attractive and vivacious and cool is there like it will become the target of

03:20:43.620 the people we're against and they'll try and find a way to vampire it so like if everything goes

03:20:49.300 right and it does become the next hottest thing that is to be emulated you know are we even ready

03:20:56.580 for that are we ready are we ready to get a million dollar check i suppose is the simple

03:21:01.520 question i mean that's that is an interesting point and i mean the the way i see it is that

03:21:09.280 there is a built-in kind of um shield against this scene being co-opted because the let's say

03:21:22.740 you know an editor at simon and schuster is really like oh we gotta this this nutcranker

03:21:30.380 book is getting so much press we gotta do dan's next novel my daughter came out to me she won't

03:21:36.920 shut up about this nutcranker and so then i give him the next novel and the next novel and he's

03:21:44.040 like uh you can't say this this is this is we're getting in trouble if you say that that's you know

03:21:50.740 So, if it is the case that the next, you know, that Nutcranker 2 is, you know, published by like Penguin in like unaltered form, then like, yeah, well, I guess maybe we did win.

03:22:03.500 Maybe, you know, but if they say like, oh, you need to move, you know, you can't say this, you can't say that.

03:22:10.400 um you know i i don't know i don't think i would publish it with them just because i'm not like

03:22:18.980 i'm not trying to be a writer i am a writer i'm trying to write good stuff and so like to the

03:22:28.880 extent that we all have careers and we don't rely upon writing for money that's an advantage

03:22:34.140 and i think that you know unfortunately that means we have less time to write but that's where

03:22:42.880 like what would happen if a you know a one million dollar check came in and 10 writers each got

03:22:50.880 100 000 to like write a novel for a year well you know then we'd you know have 10 like probably

03:22:59.120 really good you know based novels which would be like you know it'd be a whole thing it'd be like

03:23:07.080 you know they'd have like tablet articles like the class of 2023 based novelists and you know

03:23:15.880 whatever and it's you know it would be i mean i think this would frankly be a tremendous investment

03:23:22.900 i will say you're kind of seeing you're kind of seeing that with bronze age pervert right now

03:23:29.020 just in the past few weeks where like the mainstream got a hold of this book and you're

03:23:34.920 seeing articles written in places you wouldn't see them written before about hey there's people

03:23:39.220 talking about this bronze age mindset thing and like i remember charging that because i'm like

03:23:44.140 oh the red scare girls are into this yeah and kind of watch it happen for a book that came out

03:23:51.040 a while ago like that's why it was such a interesting little window of like it started

03:23:56.780 getting famous not when it launched but like right now like it's its own momentum and then you could

03:24:02.200 almost use that as a case study for how something like this could go but then yeah they're kind of

03:24:07.440 latching on to it and you start to worry like watch how the narrative around that evolves like

03:24:13.480 is this being adopted by people who might want to destroy it or pollute it you know there's all

03:24:19.340 kinds of i'm just interested in that you know i mean absolutely like in this case i am when i say

03:24:25.680 like a the the class of 2023 based novels i'm thinking of something that is you know um

03:24:32.240 a largely positive article a largely like you know kind of like oh look at these and i think

03:24:40.580 that is kind of like what would be written about like if you gave um you know 10 dan baltics 100

03:24:48.280 grand each you know and not just me obviously there's you know tacos you know many other

03:24:55.440 writers out there who deserve it you know frankly my co-host Matt Pegas he uh he deserves it um

03:25:01.980 many others and um yeah that that is what I think you would see I would hope because you know we

03:25:11.020 have not become kind of the political lightning rods that BAP is but that being said this recent

03:25:17.980 kind of like spate of articles about bap they are like obviously rather negative uh i mean like all

03:25:25.980 publicity is good publicity and certainly like having like politico and like the atlantic

03:25:32.340 excoriate you that's good if you're based because you don't frankly like you don't want to be loved

03:25:39.180 by the atlantic but like yeah i mean this is not i i wouldn't take the atlantic's recent article

03:25:45.660 about that to be indicative of their like, ah, we should, um, maybe there's something to this,

03:25:51.720 uh, fascism. That's a good point. And, um, yeah, I'm very interested. I know this would be something

03:26:01.220 I would love to ask Curtis Yarvin sometime because he seems to be a guy who's acutely aware of punk

03:26:08.300 rock. He likes kind of gives us sort of a punk rock appreciator vibe and what you, what you'd

03:26:13.420 want to avoid i'm sure he would have a an explanation for this but what you would want

03:26:17.480 to avoid is being punk because the story of punk is kind of the thing you would want to avoid this

03:26:23.700 thing that i mean arguably was always kind of co-opted by corporate stuff early on but like

03:26:28.720 at there seemed to be a point where it was a honest generative thing very early on then it

03:26:34.900 became a parody of itself and became commercialized and then it kind of lurches on now as a parody of

03:26:42.720 itself but you know the question would be this thing that we got going on here how would we avoid

03:26:48.660 becoming that and i i'm sure that there's been people who've thought about this but that was

03:26:54.400 just what came to my mind yeah yeah i mean i think you know obviously there's always the you know the

03:27:02.200 potential for co-opting there's the potential for you know our kind of um the the more kind of like

03:27:11.840 vital voices being, um, seduced to kind of write things that are, uh, more palatable to the

03:27:20.660 mainstream. And that, that is like an, an issue, but frankly, I, I, as I mentioned before, I think

03:27:29.980 we have a kind of built in defense against that, which is many of these writers I know are people

03:27:37.440 with jobs so it's not like oh i you know i my my sale of nutcrankers over the past year has

03:27:47.660 principally benefited matt forney and not even that much so um i'm not you know i i love that

03:27:55.900 people are reading my novel but i that's not how i pay my bills in the slightest so i'm not worried

03:28:03.380 about and I think there are many others like me like I know that Tacos has a you know a job job

03:28:09.880 and he's made good money off of his work but you know frankly all told I can't imagine he's cleared

03:28:18.340 more than a hundred grand and I mean that's you know that's okay but that's you know it's

03:28:25.340 you know if you're even you know reasonably successful that's a you know one-year salary

03:28:31.900 so well also like you know come back to amazon like most people if they're lucky are breaking

03:28:38.200 even on amazon you know unless you're like pricing your paperback book for like 40 dollars

03:28:45.000 yeah you got profit but like you know so most people they're selling at amazon either to break

03:28:50.540 even or at a loss and that's just the cost that they eat and then like you said like the margins

03:28:55.980 are so thin that you just need to you know you make a bit more yeah ebooks are probably the best

03:29:00.900 thing for that uh to for just pure pure profit but like it ain't easy to make a dollar it's like

03:29:08.240 i mean i've read this fucking wild statistic that um it was something about it was what was it was

03:29:15.500 like a book award i think it was like the nobel prize for literature actually yeah it was a nobel

03:29:20.080 prize for literature and it said how many books did each nominee sell before and after winning

03:29:26.500 the award and these books like before they were nominated or won whatever they would sell like

03:29:32.540 150 between 30 and 150 copies of these books and then afterwards like the biggest award you can

03:29:39.700 imagine history books they might they might get to like a thousand copies so like yeah when you

03:29:45.900 think like there's legacy books that are always going to sell you're always going to have lord

03:29:49.320 of the rings you're always going to have you know tor the publisher i mentioned before there's like

03:29:53.540 a legacy sci-fi brand that keep the lights on with like five copies that just keeps crazy selling

03:30:00.440 year over year and they take a loss on fucking everything else it's like it is like venture

03:30:06.120 capital like you're losing money on 90 of this and hopefully you get one that really works but

03:30:10.980 it's it's fucking vicious and if you're a small publisher it's really difficult to make those

03:30:17.000 numbers work unless unless you're and this is why like antelope hill and imperium press are smart

03:30:23.420 like they go for like established titles that they can get the rights to so you kind of you can kind

03:30:29.960 of get some reliable income that way that's that's so and bizarre guys when they're like going after

03:30:34.540 old like um old pulp stuff like well that's something but to break a new writer is fucking

03:30:41.520 vicious man yeah absolutely and for that reason i think there's kind of a built-in shield or

03:30:51.380 protection from subversion just because our guys don't expect to make any money it is not how we

03:30:58.800 make our money so if someone came along to me and said um well we'll give you 30 grand to write

03:31:09.220 nut crank or two i but you have to you know do everything we have you have to let us censor it

03:31:15.200 I would say no, because I don't want to, I want to write what I want to write. So I think that

03:31:24.840 we're actually, we have kind of a natural immunity to this type of subversion. And I think that's

03:31:34.260 a really good thing that will keep this going forward. And I know you got to get going soon,

03:31:41.720 But I think this would be an interesting place to end with.

03:31:44.560 It's something I'd considered before because, like I said, I'm working marketing and I like it.

03:31:49.860 I genuinely like it.

03:31:50.700 I assume being a lawyer, you genuinely like the trade that you apply.

03:31:58.220 And I think, and this might be, again, a controversial statement, like maybe the way forward is people to remove this desire to make a living doing this.

03:32:09.660 like the transition to i make content for me and the content is successful versus i am now

03:32:16.380 a slave to my audience which is what a lot of people end up even in podcasts even in music you

03:32:22.920 know you know i'm always reminded of you know a man i'm you know i have very much appreciation for

03:32:29.500 stefan molyneux but him pleading with his audience like i've made these documentaries

03:32:35.100 what do you want me to make tell me what you want me to make like he's reliant on this pool for his

03:32:40.980 income and so he's gotta do essentially do what they say and i wonder if the model going forward

03:32:47.560 and the model that should be desired is that you never want to make money with it's good to make

03:32:54.200 some money but not your entire living like just have that as icing on the gravy and maybe that's

03:33:00.220 something we should always keep because maybe upon relinquishing that freedom and that sovereignty

03:33:06.100 you're destined to lose whatever made this scene vivacious i don't know why i'm using

03:33:13.120 that word so much this podcast i sound like a fucking retard i think

03:33:16.860 uh yeah no we get some spicy marks and vivacious time but uh yeah what do you think about that

03:33:25.720 what do you think about like if you were like i suppose you've already said what you say but

03:33:29.680 what do you think of that? Would you recommend that to others? Like remove the dream of doing

03:33:35.180 this sort of creative work as your own, your exclusive financial. Yeah. I mean, I think that's

03:33:41.840 the best model for an artist. An artist should not be reliant upon his art for his income just

03:33:52.540 because then you become a slave to your audience. You become a slave to your patrons. What you

03:33:59.340 The ideal, in my opinion, is to have an independent means of supporting yourself, but also access to a patron network so you can afford to write, frankly.

03:34:17.880 you can afford to take like I don't expect my writing to um you know support me but it is a

03:34:27.040 tall order to you know say like oh um yeah I'm gonna you know take a hit on you know 40 grand

03:34:35.280 this year so I could you know write in the mornings that's just like and that's you know

03:34:40.160 that's frankly something that I am able to do as a small business owner that other people would

03:34:46.540 not be able to do like they they don't like i could take the mornings off if i want i could

03:34:51.440 write i could fire some clients a lot of you know people are you know have more you know their their

03:34:57.140 wages they don't have any control over their schedule so it's you want a culture in the arts

03:35:07.140 where you um you don't depend upon your art to support yourself but you do have access

03:35:16.240 to patrons who make it facilitate your producing art and i think that is that's the kind of best

03:35:25.780 relationship because what you have when you're kind of writing for you know big entertainment

03:35:32.680 in companies you're writing to fulfill an audience's need you're writing for your paycheck

03:35:37.840 so you're just you're you're a slave to that and uh what you you have when you are just you know

03:35:45.040 writing but no one is giving you any money you just you you are free but you have no time to do

03:35:51.660 it so essentially what we need from our guys it's really not that hard you just like a little money

03:36:00.640 to help guys you know get it done and you know make it possible for them to say i'm gonna take

03:36:10.160 the morning off i'm gonna take maybe even take this year off to write and you know that's like

03:36:17.660 they they have that on the left they have like macarthur genius grants they have all this type

03:36:23.480 of stuff that you know are like oh you can you can write you can do what you want and you know

03:36:28.500 hopefully you produce something good. We, you know, we just need to build up that infrastructure.

03:36:36.620 And part of building up that infrastructure is creating the incentive for the onside guys who

03:36:45.840 have money. And there are some of them out there, you know, not, you know, more than you would

03:36:50.220 think and you know convince them that you know if you write this check to some you know no-name

03:36:59.100 artist well that won't be you know just something that goes into the ether and never becomes

03:37:06.640 anything that's something that he'll be reading at this party in new york city or los angeles

03:37:12.820 and you'll get to go to the party and you'll meet hot girls and one thing i would communicate to

03:37:18.940 those uh patrons out there would be that the one thing that i think works in our favor because some

03:37:24.440 people will criticize our side of things for there's too many websites there's too many you

03:37:30.600 know outlets that we're starting and i think that and i get called a bit of a romantic for saying

03:37:36.020 this but i think this thing called the dissident right has probably the best filtration system for

03:37:42.660 talent that i've seen in the sense that yeah it's so conflicted and it's so contentious and people

03:37:49.000 like the people who can write kind of filter to the top because there's so many outlets but there's

03:37:54.360 so much criticism and there's so much you know i mean like as opposed to you're not plucking a

03:37:59.480 stranger if you come to the distance right you will find people with more developed portfolios

03:38:05.540 and more relationships and more experience and and you'll run less of a risk despite people

03:38:12.880 might think you'll find less you'll run less of a risk of finding just a lazy psycho because the

03:38:17.960 lazy psychos get washed right the fuck out fast and that's just my experience in being absolutely

03:38:23.760 like there's a lot of hacks there's not a lot of hacks that i see on this side and i think that

03:38:29.960 can work from an investor mindset that would be attractive uh i know you gotta get going now so

03:38:36.400 i'm gonna let you go but i'm gonna remind people where to find you find dan baltic at um on twitter

03:38:44.160 at dan baltic the baltic state dan baltic.substack.com actually on twitter it's baltic underscore dan uh

03:38:53.280 and please do me a favor and listen to the new right podcast it's available on patreon patreon

03:38:59.900 Drunk.com slash new, right, right with a W and check out Nutcranker from

03:39:05.500 terror house press. You can find that wherever books are sold.

03:39:08.960 I just looked it up for the show and I could find it pretty much anywhere.

03:39:12.820 So check that out. If you like what you heard today and Dan,

03:39:16.280 thank you so much for taking the time.

03:39:18.580 Thank you for having me on dude. It's been great.

03:39:21.020 Yeah. Talk to you soon.

03:39:21.820 Hey, baby, I hear the blues are calling

03:39:24.620 Toss salads and scrambled eggs

03:39:27.520 And maybe I seem a bit confused

03:39:32.100 Yeah, maybe, but I got you, Peg

03:39:34.440 Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Blood Satellite - August 18, 2023

Pseudcoiner Shorts Diamond Nanobot Suicide [＂canada doesnt believe this is hell is sacred＂]

Episode Stats

Transcript