Blood Satellite - Sunzets are the Bisexual of Sky [＂Karcher wd3 which I know what is thin＂]

00:00:00.000 as far back as i can remember i always wanted to be a

00:00:07.840 blood satellite it's my episode to fail we're start i don't like starting off strong i don't

00:00:24.260 like starting off with a lot of bullets in the chamber because i know every one of those bullets

00:00:29.180 is ricocheting back into my skull happens every time every one of those bullets i shoot it it

00:00:36.120 ricochets it gains speed it gains the momentum and the mass of a cannonball and it flies right

00:00:42.580 into my testicles and i go do

00:00:48.500 how's everything going over there how's everything going in judas it's all right it's all right it's

00:00:57.820 a little chilly but it's okay how about you it's not chilly it is it was six degrees this morning

00:01:03.660 i was freezing my fucking balls off that's not a very canadian thing to say well look six degrees

00:01:08.940 i put my coat away in the closet because it's been like 22 the last few days and then this morning

00:01:13.280 there was i saw frost in the field across from us so so 22 okay first of all there's a lot to

00:01:19.600 unpack here because i what kind of coat do you have because there's a lot of different types of

00:01:24.160 coats in the world this could be a nice burberry trench coat but i'm gonna guess is it flannel

00:01:31.600 uh no it is the classic uh heavy canvas workman's coat with a hoodie interior so it's like a uh it

00:01:41.980 looks like it's one of those ones it looks like two coats it's got the brown hood but it also has

00:01:47.500 a canvas it's a canvas coat it's like a workman's coat straight out of central casting the central

00:01:51.920 I am. I'm that fucking guy.

00:01:55.000 You should really live your life like an extra.

00:01:57.700 I do. I do.

00:02:01.200 I like the idea of you walking around like a guy who's on a work site but not currently on a work site.

00:02:07.280 I feel that way at work as I'm walking around and it's like, do I even work here? I haven't done anything in days.

00:02:13.360 Judas is a guy who never puts down his container of coffee.

00:02:17.160 I'm walking around with a tape measure

00:02:19.760 And safety glasses

00:02:20.680 But I'm just walking in fucking circles

00:02:22.320 Waiting for the light to flash

00:02:23.700 Having to spend any time in the morning with regular Joe

00:02:27.620 I would never invite him to my show

00:02:28.400 You don't like regular Joe?

00:02:29.600 No, he's so fucking annoying

00:02:30.920 You don't like the tidbits of knowledge?

00:02:32.860 He's just a regular guy

00:02:33.800 He's not a regular guy

00:02:35.080 Sure he is, he just says regular guy things

00:02:36.760 He's annoying

00:02:37.420 You know what, you want it all handed to you

00:02:39.040 That's your problem, Sammy

00:02:39.920 I don't even know what you're talking about

00:02:41.720 I didn't ask for anything

00:02:42.800 Yeah, well, you don't ask

00:02:44.220 Because you're too used to getting

00:02:45.140 What's he saying?

00:02:47.160 Regular Joe, he shoots from the hip.

00:02:48.600 He shoots from the hip.

00:02:49.400 It's like he's going to give you a little wisdom, a little knowledge, and a little fun.

00:02:52.960 I'm a straight shooter.

00:02:53.740 I say it for your own good.

00:02:54.840 A little tough medicine.

00:02:55.700 It's not what I was talking about.

00:02:57.420 Tough medicine?

00:02:59.840 I can't stand him.

00:03:00.980 You know, you should use a little elbow grease, things like that.

00:03:03.400 Yeah, you can't stand him because you don't like hearing the truth.

00:03:05.260 You just want to hear, like, all that soft stuff mommy tells you.

00:03:08.360 Well, that's not what Joe says.

00:03:10.020 Fucking regular Joe, man.

00:03:11.560 This is it.

00:03:12.280 This is going to be a great show.

00:03:13.780 I'm so fucking tired today.

00:03:15.600 that just makes me angry yeah welcome to welcome to the real world try working for a living buddy

00:03:19.680 fuck it yeah i'm tired what is it that you do joe well i work on a construction site give me a

00:03:25.940 container of coffee i'm happy but you what do you sleep all day well this is what you get welcome

00:03:29.760 to the real world buddy he is a full red-blooded npc not only is an npc he's an npc when the player

00:03:39.600 character isn't around when it's just like a very reductive subroutine the saddest the saddest life

00:03:46.640 i go visit this guy and he's t-posing in the kitchen

00:03:49.380 just give me a second alone hold on

00:03:54.320 man i've been playing a bunch of games lately yeah um i'm gonna there's this one that just

00:04:01.580 came out that i'm kind of excited about it's a warhammer 40k game um there's been a lot of

00:04:07.700 warhammer 40k games and there haven't been a lot of good ones there's been like one good one uh but

00:04:13.800 it was like a third person action you're gonna get in trouble for that comment i think there's

00:04:18.020 not there's not a lot of good 40k games i put that on anyone i put that on god on god for real

00:04:24.300 no cap i put that on the lord jesus christ of latter-day saints uh no but this one's called

00:04:31.820 a warhammer bolt gun it's a boomer shooter so it's like designed to look kind of like oh yeah

00:04:36.380 i saw that that looked kind of fun it's supposed to look it's supposed to be good and so i got that

00:04:41.800 um and i've been playing this game that it's this game called planet crafter oh no it's they took

00:04:50.100 the most boring part of subnautica and made it a game which is just like building like the base

00:04:57.140 part of the game you know so like there's no combat there's no real survival it's just you

00:05:03.960 got a terraform a planet and it's like mars don't say what planet is but it's looking like mars like

00:05:10.160 a red dusty desert planet and then it's like a early access independent game so it's kind of

00:05:18.820 slapped together there's not a lot of like the gameplay mechanics are you start there you you can

00:05:23.800 see your mining tool it's like a laser and you look around this barren desert and there's just

00:05:30.480 very obvious resource icons like here is lead here is iron here is silicon i'm and i'm nodding

00:05:38.500 along politely as if i'm not the guy who has 150 000 reviewed games on steam yeah this is like

00:05:46.240 this is like every fucking game for the past five years is a clone of a clone of an asset flip for

00:05:52.240 30 more than it's actually worth and that never actually releases and is in early access

00:05:58.360 permanently and then it's review bombed and it's review bond and here's the thing i've got like

00:06:03.420 70 hours in this game i have a shameful irresponsible mudman amount of hours in this

00:06:11.940 game you have a problem because i it it speaks to that being that soul that exists inside you

00:06:19.160 that says i want to terraform a planet yeah i don't get a chance to do that i don't i've never

00:06:24.520 seen someone do it it's faustian and it turns out all you need is a vacuum laser

00:06:30.240 hoovering up silicon chunks and then you just at that least you're getting a bunch of trees and

00:06:36.660 then bees now i'm the master of bees and as a white and again this won't make sense if you're

00:06:42.240 not a white guy but being a master of bees is a big deal it's not nothing there's a non-zero

00:06:50.060 chance that it is everything it might be everything so there's b there's bees on mars

00:06:55.360 so you said a vacuum laser and i'm thinking oh that is that some other technology they use a

00:06:59.560 vacuum instead of like a lazing medium like our oh no you mean vacuum laser like it's a vacuum

00:07:03.840 cleaner but it's a laser beam like it sucks stuff off you point it you see a chunk of iron you shoot

00:07:09.360 a blue laser and it goes into your arm wow into it just it just goes somewhere it goes in some of

00:07:17.180 stuff and it's like it's science fiction i think fiction is almost too too friendly a word for some

00:07:24.060 of this shit well from what i've described to you it's not scientific it's barely fiction it's just

00:07:29.980 it's just yeah it's just yeah it's a thing that is happening in front of you but it's it's it could

00:07:37.820 be a fever dream but at the end of the day i get to the level where oh look the the terrain the

00:07:45.040 red landscape it turned green i got grass sprouting up and i feel i feel like i've done something

00:07:50.640 and then i'm not looking at the clock i'm not listening to the screaming baby one room over 1.00

00:07:56.440 my wife is like what are you doing and i say shut the fuck up finish her white man things 1.00

00:08:03.540 i'm doing white guy things screaming baby it's shit in its diaper shitty diapers piling up in 1.00

00:08:10.840 my lap she's just hurling up the side of my head i'm saying i'm gonna take care of it i won't

00:08:16.540 i can't i'm stuck because i go into this thinking oh he's not gonna make 30 000

00:08:24.340 shit and piss filled diapers a day and he does and i'm like you know what maybe you know i i'm

00:08:31.800 a believer in nature maybe this is cyclical do i know what cyclical means not anymore i thought

00:08:37.360 think this will take care of itself the how's it going to take care of the bugs the birds

00:08:43.000 snakes i'm sitting here covered in shit and piss filled diapers zero snakes negative birds well

00:08:51.240 did you even try bringing in birds and snakes or did you not even i bet you didn't even bring

00:08:56.100 in a single snake well again back to video games my understanding was if you get enough flies

00:09:01.420 in an area than these other things

00:09:04.060 they come from flies

00:09:05.540 I spoke to

00:09:07.860 J.F. Garepi

00:09:08.660 I'm going to speak to him this episode in the

00:09:11.400 Cope Pranos society section

00:09:13.340 and you know my

00:09:15.640 understanding of the revolutionary

00:09:17.360 phenotype is that

00:09:18.340 you get enough DNA in a place

00:09:21.020 and you get a bunch of stuff

00:09:22.940 anyone who listened to the last episode

00:09:25.660 that's what they left thinking

00:09:26.960 yeah Xbox achievement unlocked

00:09:29.420 DNA

00:09:30.580 i got a lot of good comments from that uh clip a lot of people you know i like sections like that

00:09:37.480 because people feel the need to write in and say they they disagree with it i actually like to

00:09:44.800 disagree but um you know who's a good fan of our show now is the guy who you unfairly maligned

00:09:52.640 by the way who's that who's that i'm a lie i'm a line everybody him farmer grady you were very

00:09:58.820 very cruel to him what did i say to farmer oh is it the guy with the grandma's farm yes and you

00:10:04.800 said i think you said you wanted to kill him uh you it was more threats than i thought yeah maybe

00:10:13.080 but but he comes you know say oh i'm glad i made it on the show turns out he's a great guy

00:10:18.620 your best laid plans yeah yeah he seems like an all right guy you roll out the knife carpet on

00:10:25.740 people and they tap dance across it i don't officially take back anything i said but i mean

00:10:32.860 he seems like a decent he seems like a cool guy he's a good guy yeah but he had some so a lot of

00:10:38.640 people who have an issue with that's this sort of thing tend to take issue with evolution generally

00:10:46.160 so you know and i don't know you know i didn't bring it up with him i was going to actually had

00:10:51.040 a note and we like what do you say to the people who just say all this is bullshit there's no

00:10:55.580 evolution period and he actually because here's the thing growing up all the anti-evolution stuff

00:11:02.860 seemed to come from a religious or theological perspective um and it was treated kind of

00:11:09.120 foolishly but you know there's anti-evolution arguments that seem pretty grounded in science

00:11:15.220 or at least from at first blush i don't believe i'm i'm an evolution respecter but i'm seeing

00:11:23.520 more convincing arguments that break down like energy transfers and if you look at like you

00:11:30.640 couldn't have plants evolve because of this molecule you know i'm doing a bad yeah yeah

00:11:35.900 but it's it's at least grounded in the realm of science right so that's one of those it's one of

00:11:43.580 those things like dinosaurs where it's like hey we found bones okay so what does that really mean

00:11:48.360 it means you found bones does that mean that the tyrannosaurus rex looks the way that it did in

00:11:53.800 the textbooks no that's a huge fucking leap that's just now you've got some guy drawing pictures

00:11:59.120 fanciful pictures right and i think it's frankly anything that you can't actually observe i don't

00:12:05.760 know how fair it is to i mean it's technically science i guess but i mean you can't you you

00:12:10.160 if you can observe uh three generations of mosquitoes evolving congratulations you've

00:12:15.400 observe mosquito evolution but as soon as you start trying to tell me you start trying to tell

00:12:20.320 me about human evolution over long periods much longer than recorded history i'm not saying that

00:12:26.540 the process of evolution isn't real but now you're out on a limb you're telling me how tall tyrannosaurus

00:12:32.580 rex was and you're telling me how big its femur was at a certain age you don't know that man now

00:12:37.940 i might believe you but it's called a hypothesis it's not actually a thing right it's not necessarily

00:12:43.560 true and i think that's kind of where evolution is and it's the it's the cult of science you know

00:12:49.100 and i i don't know if anybody's ever going to say evolution's not real like come on it is observable

00:12:53.580 but yeah a lot of stuff our guys are always going off about the fucking haplogroups and about where

00:12:59.320 different tribes of humanity came from across the bering strait or wherever and it's like nobody

00:13:04.620 nobody can agree right because there are competing views and the jury is still out so i mean if you

00:13:11.660 this was hmm i have a line i want to say and i don't know if it tracks logically but i'm just

00:13:18.460 going to say it and you tell me if it makes sense if you're afraid of miscegenation you kind of have

00:13:24.140 to believe in evolution right you know i mean like if you don't like race mixing you kind of have to

00:13:30.440 agree i don't know maybe i don't believe maybe that's dumb i think i said a dumb thing i'm trying

00:13:36.600 to i'm trying to grasp it it's not immediately obvious what it means to me if you're afraid of

00:13:40.600 miscegenation you should believe in evolution you should believe in evolution oh you have to

00:13:46.420 i don't know well maybe god created the races like maybe it's a tower of babel like maybe that's

00:13:52.960 the maybe the people who are afraid of miscegenation it's because they don't believe

00:13:57.000 in evolution you know what i mean it's like god created the races at the tower of babel and never

00:14:01.160 the twain okay maybe let's grope around in the dark for what i mean okay um because miscegenation

00:14:09.300 you know the idea you know mixing of the races and stuff you know that it seems like to be

00:14:14.280 shorthand for devolution you know you're devolving into a lesser race you know i mean so if you

00:14:21.860 believe in de-evolution that seems to imply evolution now see that's that's interesting

00:14:27.780 because i never i actually never thought of it that way to me the thrust against miscegenation

00:14:33.800 is the relationship between genes and culture is sacred it's not necessarily about superiority

00:14:40.600 it's about your your your value or your your culture or your your in-group can only be

00:14:47.280 maintained through some some amount of genetic purity um and that's worth maintaining because

00:14:53.380 it's a thing and it's it's yours right i that's kind of the way i it's not even about like because

00:14:57.500 i i mean i think that if you want to talk about miscegenation i mean let africans be africans and

00:15:02.260 that's good for them and they should hold on to that you know what i mean it's not like it's

00:15:06.640 anybody it's interesting to put it in that perspective though that it's specifically

00:15:10.500 about d evolution but again i i think if you know what evolution is i don't think d i think

00:15:15.800 d evolution is like a a newscast narrative word it's not a real thing what the fuck is d evolution

00:15:21.880 like evolution is is the process of natural selection so like you can if you if an environment

00:15:28.020 forces you to get shorter and dumber is that de-evolving or is it you just evolving true to

00:15:33.620 a new environment right that is a good point and that's a case that i had made for people who

00:15:38.360 you know a lot of people on our side think that you know the peak human form is like the big

00:15:44.760 muscly you know handsome you know the adonis the hyperborean man whatever everyone's got like an

00:15:50.360 image of like what which is which is purely it's a philosophical moral aesthetic judgment if you

00:15:55.900 want to talk about that's not all illusionary though evolution says that there's peak given

00:15:59.840 a certain set of variables in an environment and the adonis might not be peak in some fucking

00:16:06.540 sub-saharan jungle exactly if you're to be equipped for you know to be like equipped for

00:16:12.160 optimal survival might be like a small a short guy that can survive on less food like it might

00:16:19.520 just be like a korean guy right like and even the thing we like we always like to mock like

00:16:24.660 the the whole r selection k selection thing but our selection and k selection both form very

00:16:30.120 important biological like they're they have biological niches environmental niches where

00:16:36.680 niches sorry where they live where they are actually peak like there's places where k always

00:16:41.800 survives and places where r survives just because of the environment so uh like i'm not saying don't

00:16:46.780 pass judgment just understand there's no such thing as an evolutionary judgment evolution is

00:16:50.380 just a fucking mechanism if you break it down to the molecules it's literally just physics it's

00:16:55.540 not even like there's nothing magical about it so yeah exactly like the optimal survival

00:17:01.060 you know design like the human entity most optimized for survival again might be the

00:17:08.280 korean guy four feet tall small but corkscrew shaped penis yeah yeah made for quick insemination 0.56

00:17:17.020 this idea female orgasm gone yep yep female orgasm has been an albatross around our necks

00:17:28.580 evolutionarily speaking for too long and if there's one thing that's going to destroy 0.97

00:17:32.920 the white race it's that it's all this this chit chat about females busting all day the

00:17:40.120 koreans don't got to worry about that they're in they're out it's excruciatingly painful

00:17:44.980 but it gets the job done three seconds and then they have any if you do that 10 000 times you get

00:17:50.620 one kit because you can only fit like three sperm through that so but it's high impact high

00:17:56.460 repetition but there's they're so short you can fit so many of them in tight containers and stack

00:18:02.680 them and then once you're in a pitch black container is anything rape that's the question

00:18:09.220 koreans south koreans not north koreans south koreans dare to ask if you're buried in a what

00:18:16.580 is essentially buried in a coffin a man and a woman can does rape happen is there laws when

00:18:23.000 you're buried alive i've asked that not on the show but to my wife yeah um yeah our is is being

00:18:31.140 at what depth do laws stop existing i ask you well i i think also if you pay any attention

00:18:39.020 at all to korean cinema then you'll realize that um a rape while buried alive is like a core plank

00:18:45.180 of their culture and belief yes it is why do you think it keeps coming up yeah it's like you know

00:18:51.840 when you watch you know uh filipino cinema and it's about having secret families everyone's got

00:18:57.260 double second and third families that happens a lot there you're watching you know arabic cinema

00:19:02.980 i watch a lot of arabic cinema no you fucking don't fuck you and you're thinking wow acid seems

00:19:08.740 to play a big role in a lot of these storylines and that seems weird doesn't seem weird to them

00:19:15.300 it seems weird to us and you got to like readjust your your cultural you know binoculars to view

00:19:21.620 this from distance um similarly there's a lot of you know buried alive rape related things in south

00:19:29.860 korean cinema and if only these dopes would read the translated lyrics for all that k-pop shit they

00:19:37.040 listen to they'd understand that they just think it's fucking backstreet boy shit yeah it is bleak

00:19:44.020 bleak to us but for them again perfectly suited to their environment yep yep they got a government

00:19:53.700 full of witches they got a media full of of coffin molestation and i forget where i was going with

00:20:04.540 is you know what maybe that was where i was going with it what's the the culture of the the specific

00:20:09.900 type of guy who you know with the the natty hair who likes to jump on top of taxi cabs and run into

00:20:15.280 people's homes oh that was a good seg you yeah did i get it you did it

00:20:19.680 yay okay that was a class act i always tell people i don't care what they say about you

00:20:29.460 judas is a class act he knows what he's doing buddy yeah i'm over here well you brought this

00:20:34.500 up we're talking about mizzy mizzy and self-proclaimed prankster who films himself

00:20:40.460 trespassing in shops and people's homes has promised to continue with his stunts and that

00:20:44.980 is despite calls from mps to take his account down his name is bakari agaro and here he is he

00:20:51.260 goes by the name mizzy and you can see him here stealing somebody else's dog you got a nice dog

00:20:57.240 so this mizzy character and this is just happening this week i think this guy came on people's radar

00:21:11.600 at the exact same time especially if you're a boomer brain person like me who's still figuring

00:21:18.180 out tiktok but this mizzy is a social media influencer primarily tiktok and i think because

00:21:26.520 he was on tiktok he could get away with stuff like this but and you were just watching the

00:21:31.760 interview with him on pierce morgan earlier but in short this was like a i think like a teenager

00:21:37.700 him and his friends going around doing quote-unquote pranks on people which were literally

00:21:45.100 doing home invasions walking into people's houses or going up to women at night uh and threatening

00:21:53.040 them the videos that he would post a lot of this does get um brought up on the news so the ones

00:21:59.460 that i had seen were and this is done for comedic purposes allegedly going up to women at night

00:22:06.540 saying do you want to die and implying that uh you got a knife because this is london so it's

00:22:13.080 just knives um or just walking into their houses uh while they're in there and just just being

00:22:21.400 present in there i was doing a home invasion yeah or um just harassing people then the stuff like

00:22:26.860 oh he's staying on top of a car yeah whatever or he's causing a scene taking off his shirt in a

00:22:32.720 store well in the the interview with with peers he brought up a video of him he he ran into the

00:22:38.240 street and he jumped on the back of a hasidic jew and tried to ride him into traffic that is what

00:22:43.320 got him in trouble um now there's two ways to interpret that now the one way to interpret is

00:22:49.760 our side which is like oh because he got away with all of this for a long long time and he would

00:22:55.240 with the reason we know about this is because he filmed it and it was getting very very popular

00:22:59.760 going viral based on it nothing had happened the police were not involved so the story that a lot

00:23:05.800 of our side will kind of latch on to is that oh he finally crossed a jew and because he crossed a

00:23:11.360 jew now he's in trouble that's one angle also i would say that he finally crossed over into

00:23:18.040 physical violence uh whereas arguably everything leading up to that was uttering threats but that

00:23:26.040 wasn't actually laying hands on someone and again trying to ride them into traffic and kill a man

00:23:32.080 so it's those two things happening at the same time but i i do think if he did that to

00:23:37.640 a non-jew he wouldn't have the cops on him so fucking fast yeah yeah so so what was your take

00:23:45.600 on the interview just to get that because i don't want to steamroll you like sometimes i can steam

00:23:50.580 roll you i don't want no i actually honestly i didn't even finish it because it was just before

00:23:53.840 i was going to work but uh i thought it was is interesting that they let him get away with some

00:23:58.760 of the some of the rudeness and discussion that was there and uh i i guess maybe that's just maybe

00:24:05.440 that's just pierce morgan's show i don't ever watch that show but it was just crazy to see the

00:24:10.260 absolute level of disrespect yeah pierce morgan is you know there's more people from the uk who

00:24:16.940 have strong feelings about pierce morgan he made a brief foray into american news many many years

00:24:23.440 ago and he kind of got chased out because he's an anti-gun guy like you know a lot of them they

00:24:29.740 won't americans will tolerate other americans being anti-gun they're not going to tolerate

00:24:34.180 just a fucking brit coming in and being anti-gun they will run you out of town which is what

00:24:40.940 happened to him um yeah or that's my version of events anyway but uh you know his style is kind

00:24:47.260 of being a scold you know he's i i guess he would count as conservative i don't know if he's

00:24:52.520 politically conservative he would be a liberal but i think if you're just like an old british guy

00:24:57.700 you just have a certain maybe yeah everything i've seen with him lately has been like anti

00:25:03.720 anti-fat positivity anti you know late stage feminism and then this type of stuff like

00:25:09.460 anti-crime but like when you hear him talk about it he's got all of like the center left almost

00:25:14.840 neocon talking points but like the real problem is actually just crime and the fact that these

00:25:19.820 people are underprivileged but then he he's at least poking at the fact that it's happening

00:25:24.160 but uh yeah it was it was interesting to see him yell at this kid um

00:25:29.900 What were you doing in the house?

00:25:33.260 What was I doing in the house?

00:25:34.300 I don't know. It was a stupid video.

00:25:35.760 I got peer pressure to say.

00:25:38.320 I don't want to say it in that way.

00:25:39.600 It was somebody else's fault.

00:25:41.020 I'm not blaming it on no one else.

00:25:42.140 You break into the house with a woman and a husband

00:25:44.820 and two young kids.

00:25:45.220 I went into the house with my own accord.

00:25:47.280 No, I'm just saying, OK, you went through their door, right?

00:25:50.780 But it's not your house.

00:25:52.000 You're not supposed to be in there.

00:25:53.580 Oh, no shit. 1.00

00:25:54.200 You are causing a lot of alarm to that poor woman 0.99

00:25:56.900 and to her children who are in the house.

00:25:59.320 you then terrorise this poor elderly woman 0.71

00:26:02.280 and take a dog away and traumatise her.

00:26:05.420 For the story about that, hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:26:08.440 Let me speak.

00:26:09.240 Yeah, because no, no, no.

00:26:10.420 Let me speak.

00:26:11.000 No, no, no.

00:26:12.200 I'm going to tell you.

00:26:13.440 Let me talk about that situation.

00:26:14.440 No, for the viewers who, no, no, wait a minute.

00:26:15.980 Wait a minute.

00:26:16.740 For the viewers who don't know what you've done.

00:26:19.180 Hold up, hold up.

00:26:19.700 I'm going to tell them.

00:26:20.700 No, you hold on.

00:26:21.960 No, you can hold on.

00:26:23.120 I'm explaining.

00:26:23.780 They've been going viral everywhere.

00:26:24.420 They already know what's been happening.

00:26:25.740 They don't just keep talking like an idiot.

00:26:28.200 Yeah.

00:26:28.600 Well, cause he, he knew what he, like he's bringing on a retarded kid.

00:26:33.260 Like this kid is, is, I don't know if he knew that.

00:26:36.120 I don't know if he knew that.

00:26:37.160 Like I, or maybe he did, but I mean, I think I was personally, you know what I was, I wasn't

00:26:42.580 shocked that he behaved that way because I know that they behave that way.

00:26:45.860 I was shocked that they knowingly brought him on either knowing that he would behave

00:26:51.800 that way or like they just didn't even know.

00:26:53.980 So I was kind of thinking, did they not know that this was going to happen?

00:26:57.320 because obviously if you bring like an iq 75 somali into who's just got out of the police

00:27:03.160 station for assaulting random people in the street total nobody total just random fucking

00:27:07.860 kid assaulting people and you bring him into the studio what's going to happen it's going to be a

00:27:12.420 shit show he's going to yell at you he maybe he's going to assault somebody maybe he's going to pull

00:27:15.940 his dick out like it's not like this is like uh the guy who just died recently a fucking camera

00:27:21.980 jerry springer it's going to be a jerry springer thing right so i don't know you need to have a

00:27:26.120 jerry springer you need to bring out some surprise guests on this kid yeah you need to bring out the

00:27:31.920 guy who molested this kid you know but there's a couple takes from here that i like one is i'm

00:27:38.200 taking this ripping it off from someone else i just liked it i i heard this from millennial woes

00:27:44.960 actually and i think morgoth would have had something similar but you know the once you see

00:27:51.420 the videos that this guy was producing you notice that it's always against white people it's not

00:27:58.020 against black people so when he's doing his home invasions they're against white families when he's

00:28:03.740 threatening women it is white women and this is in london i assume it's in london but it's in the

00:28:09.400 britain so it's not like there's not brown people around especially in the cities yeah so he

00:28:15.700 purposefully went after white people everyone knows that no one says it but it's just like

00:28:19.720 the knockout game they're not do no one did the knockout game on indians they never did the

00:28:25.680 knockout game on other black people it was always white people and then asian people later on yeah

00:28:30.700 and then they made the point i believe millennial woes which is this is very obviously a war against

00:28:37.960 middle class whites and i think middle class whites is very important because upper class

00:28:44.660 whites can pay to not have to deal with this they can pay for security they can pay to remove

00:28:50.220 themselves from the locations where this would happen so this is really only and it's not lower

00:28:55.260 class whites because they're not really targeted in that sense but this is it's middle class whites

00:29:00.020 who are targeted because they know they cannot defend themselves so they by being middle class

00:29:05.640 the upper class they can also afford security they can afford lawyers they can afford an entire

00:29:12.200 stratosphere of services and resources to insulate them from this however walk yourself through

00:29:20.400 because everyone on our side knows exactly what they were doing i saw tweets coming out i saw

00:29:25.340 all kinds of comments and takes saying you know you should try this in texas try this in in america

00:29:32.220 where they got guns i'm like yeah oh you know what yeah try it in america has a white person

00:29:38.100 shot a black guy in america recently as a white guy killed justifiably killed a black guy even by

00:29:47.660 accident while defending himself in america and gotten in trouble or had his life ruined even if

00:29:55.600 he's exonerated later the entire you know because so walk yourself through that so you're a middle

00:30:00.400 class person you know maybe you're doing okay but you don't have access to all these resources

00:30:03.940 if you are on camera beating up or killing this kid who's in your house you don't know what he's

00:30:10.620 going to do he could have a knife you know you should be able to kill someone if they go into

00:30:15.460 your house and are very clearly with some kind of ill intent at least to me you know you know

00:30:20.920 a lot of the leftists would call me crazy for thinking that but i would if i did that i would

00:30:25.560 expect to be shot if white people did that to other white people at least anglos anglos have

00:30:32.180 this thing where it's like well that's what you get shouldn't have done that you know yeah if i

00:30:36.500 had my son if i learned my son got shot and it was because he did a home invasion i'd be like well

00:30:41.940 fuck i'm sad my son's dead but i guess i fucked up because that's what happens when you do that

00:30:46.960 right i wouldn't get mad at the fucking homeowner anyway we're getting off the topic here

00:30:51.220 but walk yourself through it if you do defend yourself your life is over it's done and every

00:30:59.620 Remember that recently that bike Karen, remember that there's a story of the woman who was on camera renting a city bike and like a bunch of black guys came up to her and were like fighting her and wrestling her.

00:31:14.480 And she was pregnant, six months pregnant, claiming that that was their bike that they paid for and she paid for.

00:31:21.600 A New York City Bellevue hospital worker was caught in a spat with a group of young men over a city bike last week.

00:31:28.560 The video shows Sarah Comrie, who was white, yelling help, help me, please help me as she

00:31:34.680 and one of the men argued over who paid for the bike. The man said, this is not your bike,

00:31:39.160 but is my bike on my account. Please move. Here's some more of the interaction.

00:31:43.860 Help! Help me! Please help me.

00:31:47.240 This is not your bike.

00:31:49.080 I'm not touching you. You putting your stomach on my head.

00:31:52.600 Why don't we reset the bike?

00:31:54.120 I'm not resetting the bike.

00:31:55.220 It's his, it's his, it's his.

00:31:56.620 now in the aftermath of the viral video some called comry city by karen and she was placed

00:32:03.360 on leave from her job she's screaming for help the narrative from the news was that look at

00:32:08.280 this karen trying to get these these young black scholars arrested turns out she was in the right

00:32:15.080 turns out she paid for the bike and they were just being niggers it's sorry it's what they were 0.69

00:32:21.180 and then you know everyone's like oh she's exonerated well in the meantime she was put

00:32:26.100 on administrative leave she's made a fucking meme all of her friends probably left her you know like

00:32:31.300 what happens to an individual when they the spotlight is on them when a white individual

00:32:37.920 gets that spotlight put on them you're fired from your job even if you're innocent now you're in

00:32:43.560 you're in court especially if you if you kill or assault someone you're probably innocent but you

00:32:48.900 got to prove it so there's maybe a hundred thousand dollars gone savings gone job gone

00:32:54.320 you know the likelihood of divorce goes up your kids are bullied because they're in the fucking

00:32:59.380 news you know and even just even just being in the news you're gonna get bullied but now

00:33:03.560 the news is calling your family racist now your kids gotta change schools you gotta move towns

00:33:09.400 you gotta move cities this fall you see your life is fucking over if you're a middle-class

00:33:14.940 white person and you defend yourself and that to me is the story here which and everyone's like oh

00:33:20.920 what i if that were me if that were you motherfucker we've seen people like you get their

00:33:28.560 lives ruined by being the hero the cool look look at what happened to the guy on the subway

00:33:33.680 who just restrained a black guy he's arrested he's you know we'll see what happens to him but

00:33:38.900 his life as he knows it is over he doesn't get to be a normal guy i hope he comes out of this

00:33:46.300 on the other side but maybe not maybe they decide to make an example out of him yeah the system is

00:33:53.620 known to do that so anyway that that's kind of the bottom line which is this is a shit test

00:33:58.320 being deployed against specifically good middle class white people because the perpetrators know

00:34:05.300 they can get away with it yeah the flip side of it is um that mizzy himself what did he get like

00:34:12.180 a 300 pound fine and then they they didn't even put they didn't even like put any restrictions

00:34:18.220 on him like he's not under house arrest or anything they just said oh you're no longer

00:34:21.820 allowed to post videos of people without their permission like isn't that already the fucking

00:34:25.320 law yeah like i thought that that is it's like hey hey mizzy okay now we're we're going we're

00:34:30.820 putting a moratorium on you going into people's houses without their permission yeah dude it's

00:34:35.720 called breaking and entering like that's it's already a crime we already had a thing like that

00:34:40.180 called the law yeah but yeah and that's the other thing which is um the other argument i heard was

00:34:48.720 there's this a good friend of mine online friend uh his name is theron he's one of these smart guys

00:34:57.180 you hear about oh no not another one and uh he he had asked a question a very good question which

00:35:03.400 is like why is it that liberals seem to identify with guys like this or they have an affection

00:35:09.040 towards them or they have sort of like a sympathetic interest in them in criminal types

00:35:14.180 um good question and this could extend to not not just the george floyds of the world or the

00:35:20.440 the people who die but also serial killers or gangsters or anti-social personalities

00:35:26.140 they said what is it about kind of liberals specifically where they want to you know like

00:35:32.460 like especially like white women who go oh you know to people who want to rape and kill them

00:35:37.260 it's a good question and i came back to the pierce morgan interview and when it comes to

00:35:45.560 people like mizzy the thing is you you when someone is so heinous because mizzy what what

00:35:52.340 is mizzy mizzy is cancer and so what what uh theron had said there he was talking about with

00:35:59.100 some other people and he said you know this guy he's someone who likes to make other people feel

00:36:04.300 small he likes to you know kind of humiliate them and put them in a position where they feel

00:36:10.220 little and insignificant and i said largely correct i would tweak that a bit though that

00:36:16.960 i think what he likes is them feeling afraid and that's different that's much worse in my opinion

00:36:23.520 so to make someone feel little or small you can be pretentious you could be you know an egotistical

00:36:28.740 asshole and make someone look humiliated right that's one thing but if your thing is you like

00:36:35.260 if you like the look of fear in someone's eyes that's the same sort of pathology that has you

00:36:41.760 torturing and killing animals that's why i think he's different that's why i look at him if i look

00:36:45.920 at the nature of his pranks they're all about putting vulnerable people and that's why i go

00:36:51.420 back to the middle class thing like he was doing this to like middle class white british people

00:36:56.200 who you know are vulnerable in that position he picked them for that reason just like the women

00:37:01.800 so he likes vulnerable people feeling afraid which is what you feel when you put a fucking

00:37:06.900 hamster in the microwave and hit you know start so that's why i'm like okay this guy is is cancer

00:37:13.340 you know if you describe what he is and the effect he has on people around him you would say

00:37:18.800 you should take him and put him in a furnace any sensible society would shove him feet first into

00:37:26.020 a furnace however this is where you know the there's a couple different schools of thought

00:37:32.060 on the right there's sort of the you know theological moralist side then there's also

00:37:38.640 the cold calculating science side and in a situation like this i think they kind of coalesce

00:37:44.680 so you know the more spiritual side would say what this kid is is evil and you can't and what

00:37:51.200 you should do with evil is surgically remove it and cast it out and the scientific side the

00:37:56.660 eugenicist side would say he is of inferior stock he is of of some lower genetic intermensch and we

00:38:04.160 should also remove him and so they come to the same thing but both of those solutions are

00:38:11.280 inexcusable and unacceptable to the liberal mind and what the liberal mind seeks to do is always

00:38:17.860 explain it they won't accept that someone is just cancer and is is destructive to the people around

00:38:24.580 them and that it it does not benefit us to even really understand them you know that's like kind

00:38:31.500 of like a hannibal lecter like there's nothing to learn from hannibal lecter the more you talk to

00:38:35.640 hannibal lecter to understand him the more he will manipulate and use you to fulfill his own ends

00:38:41.380 it's he's just that he's just cancer you can't understand it you can only fucking destroy it

00:38:47.080 That is Mizzy.

00:38:48.660 But the liberal demands a reason.

00:38:51.720 He demands a story.

00:38:52.920 Not only does he demand a reason in his story,

00:38:55.680 he demands a reason that fits within his framework.

00:38:59.980 He needs to understand it to be sympathetic towards it.

00:39:02.820 Otherwise, it's disjointed.

00:39:04.720 It fucking breaks his mental machinery.

00:39:07.100 So that is how you end up with Mizzy on Piers Morgan.

00:39:11.480 what a sensible society should do is put him on a fucking dinghy and send him out to the fucking

00:39:19.060 ocean but because we live because pierce morgan is in essence a lib and we live in a liberal

00:39:26.960 democracy we have to trot this fucking tumor in front of the world and say and ask him why did

00:39:35.440 you do what you did knowing full well at best it's a lie at best it's a manipulation at best

00:39:42.500 it's him trying to get out of it he cannot be truthful the truth is he did it because it felt

00:39:47.360 good it felt good to make weak people feel afraid and that's not going to go away that's not going

00:39:56.000 to go away it's going to become more refined and more skilled as he gets older and this ends and

00:40:03.640 that's actually why he got in trouble because it ended up with him physically assaulting someone

00:40:08.120 that's what got him in trouble and you just taught him that that cost 300 pounds which is he's making

00:40:15.260 way more than that probably already so it was worth it you just taught him that that's no big

00:40:20.300 fucking deal and he can get away with it so let's see where that goes maybe he changes his stripes

00:40:26.300 right but no like he's he's a fucking cancerous tumor but the liberal cannot accept the existence

00:40:34.800 of a cancerous tumor he must inject it with his own narrative so now being on pierce morgan it

00:40:42.060 humanized him being on pierce morgan now the story is he's a dumb kid he's not a dumb kid

00:40:48.180 he's a cancerous tumor that needs to be cut out of society but because we live in a liberal

00:40:55.780 democracy now we got us we've made a story for him and cloaked him in it and now now it's going

00:41:01.820 to be someone else's problem it's gonna be some woman's problem later it's going to be some

00:41:05.560 family's problem down the road i bet this happens all the fucking time a slap on the wrist with an

00:41:10.780 anti-social fucking genetic dead end yeah this happens all the time in america they just don't

00:41:17.720 even report it anyway so that was a bit of a rant there you know you brought up the fact that there's

00:41:22.280 an obvious pattern of him seeking out white victims so like we know that you know any

00:41:27.960 keen observer knows that there's a racial angle to this and you aside from like we now kind of

00:41:33.800 know his motivation there at least part of it is racial and part of it is like a psychopathic that

00:41:38.520 he gets off on on watching people fear for their lives or you know just just you know fall apart

00:41:46.500 um but obviously when you interview him he's going to lie about it because he is conscious

00:41:53.720 of those things it's not like he's an animal he doesn't understand it he knows full well

00:41:58.400 that if he were to say the truth he would probably go to prison or at the very least it would destroy

00:42:03.920 his credibility so he lies and i think the actually the exact same thing is true of the

00:42:08.520 majority of the liberals who look at guys like this even the ones that that condemn it they

00:42:12.880 condemn it and they say oh this is this is awful i draw the line here the only reason they're

00:42:17.940 condemning it is because they know that if they tell the truth about their actual opinion

00:42:21.220 then they're going to lose their credibility and the actual opinion of many liberals if you see

00:42:26.500 you know when they speak anonymously in youtube comments or on or you know on social media

00:42:31.200 their actual opinion is young black man harasses white family good they deserve it fuck white

00:42:37.900 people right for like and i that's part of the reason that you can get away with a 300 pound fine

00:42:43.220 in the 21st century is because the majority maybe not the majority but a huge number of people

00:42:49.080 are apparently actually okay with it some of them are open about it and some of them i i the

00:42:55.520 frustrating thing to me is people that are paying lip service say oh no no this is awful we shouldn't

00:42:58.920 allow this fuck you because just the other day you were supporting black lives matter who are a

00:43:03.580 terrorist organization so and also there's another angle to this that i forgot to mention there and

00:43:08.360 i explained this to theron and i think he agreed with me he's a very very smart guy but um i was

00:43:13.260 saying that we're going to talk power dynamics the the power dynamic of criminality always demands

00:43:22.520 that we try and put the antisocial genetic dead end within our frame of reference which i just said

00:43:29.320 but it precludes the victim.

00:43:32.540 So what do I mean by that?

00:43:33.800 I mean that even in a court of law,

00:43:36.080 we always demand, why did you do it?

00:43:38.800 Why did you do it?

00:43:39.740 We need to understand.

00:43:40.640 We won't accept that they're just evil or whatever.

00:43:43.140 We need to know why.

00:43:44.700 However, the flip side to that

00:43:46.240 is that we never ask the victim why.

00:43:49.100 In fact, part of victimhood is never looking into why.

00:43:54.200 Why were they attacked?

00:43:54.920 Why were they there?

00:43:55.480 That's good.

00:43:56.180 But that means that in all of these cases,

00:43:58.760 if we take a bird's eye view in all these cases we always have the criminal perpetrator able to

00:44:06.720 justify themselves but it's never the victim giving their stance on why they think they were

00:44:13.080 targeted and i think that's an interesting side of the story we never get to hear because it's

00:44:18.960 all speculation of course but you know and maybe the the victims wouldn't say anything because at

00:44:23.560 the end of the day they're middle class whites and they don't speak in these terms anymore but

00:44:26.760 you know have we ever heard from these victims like i think i was targeted because i was white

00:44:31.540 because on pierce morgan mizzy says you're just saying this to me because i'm black

00:44:37.180 and pierce morgan of course does the live language like i don't think i don't think that because

00:44:41.620 you're black why would i say that because the color of your skin i just think you're an idiot

00:44:45.360 care about your skin color i care about the fact that you've been terrorizing all these people for

00:44:52.000 a sustained period of time i also care about the fact you've only got a tiny fine today

00:44:56.480 no deterrent to you whatsoever you don't show any real remorse you don't really care do you

00:45:01.760 the uk laws are weak simple as the uk laws are weak simple as and that's not my fault

00:45:06.120 you're an idiot kid and it's like no he was actually right we are here i am saying this

00:45:13.540 because he's black and but not the reason he thinks i think the reason he did this is because

00:45:18.880 he's black and because his victims were white yeah and i and there's no point in the power

00:45:25.100 dynamic where the audience the audience is always granted the criminal to justify themselves they

00:45:32.540 can only ever justify themselves if they try and humanize themselves but you can almost never

00:45:38.720 truly humanize the victim you know because it would involve the victim pleading their case

00:45:45.540 and their case is ugly their case would be more tears and stuff and they don't want victims to

00:45:50.420 be ugly they want them to be you know reserved but no they should advocate for their humanity

00:45:56.960 you know what you took no no one's going to interview the people in the houses that he

00:46:01.500 invaded like the light like what their lives are like once a black kid goes in their house and

00:46:06.420 makes them into a fucking internet celebrity you know it's almost like the perfect the perfect

00:46:11.600 victim is the one that you never speak to because without knowing anything else about them the only

00:46:17.460 thing that you know about them is that they are a victim and that obviously is you know that's good

00:46:22.180 boy points so you've got this this perfect lamb but as soon as you interview them there might even

00:46:29.400 just be something about the way they talk that is like oh it's one of these guys maybe i don't feel

00:46:33.780 that sorry for them right and like you said it's like like there's a reversion to the mean with

00:46:38.620 both the victim and the perpetrator if you interview them and i think a neat thing to try

00:46:43.920 not that this would ever happen but it would be cool that rather than interviewing the criminal

00:46:47.780 just get um while they're like if you watch jim can't swim or some of the youtube videos about

00:46:54.420 interrogations police interrogations right it's always really telling to watch the video footage

00:46:59.320 of them left alone in the interrogation room or during their booking and when they don't know

00:47:04.700 they're being watched and like that says you can see when these people are just psychopathic animals

00:47:10.400 they have all of those tendencies and like we all know like narrative aside we all know how to spot

00:47:15.180 these fucking people right but the many of these people are really good at putting a face on when

00:47:19.780 you're sitting down and they know they're being recorded so i was reading some articles about

00:47:24.980 the medical assistance in dying controversy here in canada right um and there's a lot of people

00:47:31.680 talk about because it just keeps getting worse and worse and we've covered it on the show we've

00:47:35.020 covered you know veterans being recommended suicide by the government the bureaucracy which

00:47:41.320 is exactly what people predicted would happen um but there's this story here from the national post

00:47:49.420 and the headline is one third of canadians fine with prescribing assisted suicide for homelessness

00:47:57.260 A new poll has shown just how comfortable Canadians are with assisted suicide.

00:48:03.560 Even before assisted suicide was legalized in Canada, multiple polls showed that a clear

00:48:07.660 majority of Canadians supported it in instances when someone had a terminal illness.

00:48:12.820 When Canada expanded assisted suicide eligibility to anyone who just had a debilitating illness,

00:48:17.940 polls showed that a clear majority supported that too.

00:48:21.120 So recently, pollsters have started asking how far Canadians might go with all this.

00:48:26.040 far it turns out. One quarter of Canadians are fine with assisted suicide merely because

00:48:31.620 someone can't find medical care. 40% are fine with prisoners ending their lives instead

00:48:36.880 of serving out their sentences. What if someone's just homeless? 28% say they should be allowed

00:48:43.280 to seek medically assisted death. Or what if they're just poor? No terminal conditions,

00:48:47.680 no underlying health problems, no mental illness. They just live in poverty. Should they be

00:48:51.920 allowed to seek state assistance in ending their lives 27 say yes so and it says the results were

00:48:59.340 contained in a research company poll probing just how comfortable canadians are with the currency

00:49:03.940 of the country's made regime um research they found that 73 percent of poll respondents favored

00:49:12.220 the current regime and only 16 opposed it um so this is part of a larger movement to say okay

00:49:20.220 if suicide is legal can it be encouraged and if it is encouraged in which direction is it

00:49:29.800 encouraged now the typical pushback you would see on this from the right would be from a religious

00:49:37.980 point of view obviously which is that you know suicide is immoral you should always choose life

00:49:42.500 you must be on the side of life that would be the christian side then there is also sort of the

00:49:48.460 anti-statist libertarian side which is look the government's trying to kill you and and you know

00:49:55.240 it and then there's like the medic then there is also a leftist side which is oh you're only

00:50:00.180 targeting the vulnerable i guess that's the part i'd like to focus on because my gut instinct when

00:50:07.580 i heard about made which is of course like it's in canada of course this is a grotesque thing

00:50:12.760 um but maybe i came around on it because being confronted with the mizzies of the world

00:50:21.840 the genetic dead ends the morons the unter mensch the whatever you want to call them

00:50:28.420 when i see medical assistants and dying being deployed against the homeless you know the riff

00:50:36.160 and the underclasses i'm like hmm maybe i'm okay with it maybe maybe there's and you know jump in

00:50:44.860 here whenever you want but maybe there is a pathway where this just liquidates all the

00:50:51.400 undesirables from society there there's a pathway um if we were in charge of it but if we were in

00:50:58.880 charge of it i don't think we'd start with you know the homeless quote unquote we'd start with

00:51:03.960 a lot of other people if they needed assistance in dying but um i think the problem with it

00:51:10.080 phrased as it is is like well you're already you're already kind of doing it like i don't

00:51:15.900 know what the what the article was but they're talking about the homeless but you're extending

00:51:19.540 it you're saying the homeless and the riffraff and the so and so and like yeah well this exactly

00:51:24.380 this is because this is what they will do my my impression of toronto the last time i was there

00:51:29.800 was the actual working class population is minority white but the homeless population

00:51:36.220 is majority white and i know i know from my own experience that we all do that it's fucking hard

00:51:44.120 to be a white working class man in urban canada right now it's difficult if you are brown or a

00:51:50.560 woman you can get a job in a snap but in this fucking economy unless you are you know very

00:51:57.600 connected or willing to suck a lot of dick it's hard to keep and hold a decent job it's easy to

00:52:03.020 lose your job and especially with covid it's easy to lose your to lose your job and lose your home

00:52:06.900 um and then the whole thing with the opiate crisis which we know is more or less directed at men

00:52:11.820 i am not the type of right winger in fact i dislike the type of right right winger who looks at

00:52:19.860 drug addicted homeless white men today not 20 years ago but today and you just see a filthy

00:52:28.260 degenerate i i actually do see a victim i have a hundred percent color glasses on when i look at

00:52:35.560 homeless drug addicts if they are white i i refuse to pass judgment until i know the entire

00:52:41.860 fucking story because i've been close to that and i know a lot of people who have been close to it

00:52:46.880 and i know people who have come out of it and who have recovered because we are white men after all

00:52:51.360 and it's possible for us to recover so um do i think that it would be great if we could just

00:52:57.280 fucking exterminate all of the degenerates yeah but i mean i wouldn't i had this fight with 40k

00:53:02.920 in the chat a couple of months ago about this exact thing this idea that homelessness and poverty

00:53:08.420 is like a mark against you genetically and it's like yeah all all else being equal with if you

00:53:15.240 just ignore the fact that our economy is stilted against us as a class as a race so yeah that uh

00:53:21.880 that was a 45k who yeah this was a big argument where his position i think i'm being pretty fair

00:53:29.240 on i'm trying to steal man the position but he's he or she or it as outright said before that you

00:53:34.980 know the you know the financial system is a highly efficient sorting mechanism he's more or less

00:53:42.600 making the point that you know where you are socioeconomically you deserve to be there so if

00:53:47.240 you're rich it does mean you're just better and smarter if you are poor it means there's something

00:53:52.340 fucked up about you and you deserve to be poor um that's his position and so he's like oh yeah

00:53:57.940 whatever caused you to be homeless whether it be genetics whether it be some kind of other

00:54:03.860 psychological defect you deserve to be homeless yeah and so i i don't believe in that either

00:54:08.160 because I know you've seen people who can kind of end up there and I think that if you were to just

00:54:14.700 you know exterminate the you know crack addict rapist you might coincidentally take care of 75

00:54:21.580 percent of the homeless but you would be sorting for the action like homelessness as an identity

00:54:27.060 doesn't really exist to me right it's a cluster of other things that's and that's kind of the

00:54:31.760 argument I was making to him at the time as well it's like look there's all kinds of other markers

00:54:34.960 that you could look at that make more sense like for example there's huge cross crossover with

00:54:39.200 rapists and homeless people right or or vagrants we can say rapists and vagrants so why go after

00:54:44.720 vagrants when you can just go after rapists because the if the problem with vagrants one

00:54:49.120 of the problems is rape then just chase down the rapists and the only vagrants left are just

00:54:53.840 men looking for alms because they lost their jobs like that seems like a no-brainer and it's it

00:54:59.200 almost seems like it's yeah it's like this is what a lot of leftists will come at you like oh you hate

00:55:04.480 all drug addicts like no i can actually tell the difference between a meth addict and a prescription

00:55:10.520 pain pill addict you know and i can i can chart the pathway for a prescription pain pill addict

00:55:15.440 to get into heroin versus there's not a lot of our hospital system our hospital system our medical

00:55:21.700 system manufactures white addicts it's like a not even a byproduct it is a product of the system

00:55:27.720 that we've set up it literally manufactures white opiate addicts for profit like they're victims

00:55:35.280 man i'm going to say something that a lot of people push back on because you know people

00:55:39.420 correctly connect the crack epidemic in some respect to the cia and there's some shady shit

00:55:44.760 that goes on there but the pathway to become a heroin addict from prescription pain pills is

00:55:51.060 more understandable than the pathway to crack because the pathway to crack is just you like

00:55:55.820 to party too much there's no reasonable way you get into crack you get into crack from coke why

00:56:00.820 do you get into coke just because you're a guy who's like into shit you know but it's you were

00:56:05.860 not no one was fucking prescribed coke no one was prescribed anything like crack and they

00:56:11.020 accidentally fell into that net but you can actually get into it you didn't get into crack

00:56:15.560 because of your fucking sciatica right it's like you just you love doing coke so much like i got an

00:56:21.280 idea i heard i can get i can stretch my coke dollar a little bit and then here you are on

00:56:27.740 the fucking street but it's like there's not go ask a crack how they got into crack they're like

00:56:31.700 oh crack's great that it's a every crack has got a dumb story for they became a crackhead

00:56:37.360 guys on heroin have got a tail or two right yeah yeah i also i also want to temper it because it's

00:56:42.820 like if like i'm not trying to be a bleeding heart here saying like oh a lot of homeless people they

00:56:47.320 don't deserve to be homeless i do think that many homeless people don't deserve to be homeless but

00:56:50.880 i will also say there's a lot of homed people who do deserve to be homeless and then uh and then

00:56:55.960 made it so here we go i'm just frustrated with the list it's a mismatch you know there's a lot

00:57:06.220 of people in houses in my town who probably that's i should be in that house this is the

00:57:11.840 quintessential dissident right right guy take which is i'd love to exterminate the underclass

00:57:20.060 but there might be too many white guys we accidentally get in there and by the way i

00:57:24.780 would also like to exterminate some people in the middle class yes in a sense i'd like to expand the

00:57:32.060 scope of the extermination yeah yeah like can we can we offer made to like call center employees

00:57:39.300 can we do that yeah it's just like you know this is you know people talk about the holocaust it's

00:57:44.440 like people forget the holocaust you know there's a lot of different guys who were involved in this

00:57:47.780 in the camps and stuff it's like it wasn't just jews it was a whole bunch of the guys we didn't

00:57:51.480 like like polacks yeah poles you know you know effeminate italians yep yep um there's a lot

00:58:02.280 jugglers yeah all the annoying germans and like concentration camps were placed for annoying

00:58:08.100 germans autists yeah see that the idea of the concentration camp was we've got to get all the

00:58:15.340 annoying germans in one place and again it's a little filter trick that just so happened to be

00:58:21.560 100 of jews yeah yeah but it also was like 30 of sales people it was like a bunch of bank guys

00:58:32.260 you know a bunch of politicians ended up in there so it was just you know

00:58:35.520 on the surface it was that's why it had such wide support ask people now wouldn't you love to put

00:58:42.120 annoying people in jail I bet Bill Maher would agree with that yeah he absolutely would I bet

00:58:50.000 every Jew would agree with that and then we call that a real rug pull it turns out it's literally

00:58:58.240 all of you yep um but yeah so I guess that was you know me trying to talk through an idea of like

00:59:04.600 you know liquidating the underclass but you you raise a good point and I don't think it makes it

00:59:10.260 So I guess we are opposed to made still, but you know, just, I just, I, I, you know, I

00:59:16.600 just, I want a mass murder, you know, my main, my main issue with me, like, I don't actually

00:59:21.900 have a problem.

00:59:23.220 Like, let's, let's put a theology aside for a second, like the morality of suicide, right?

00:59:29.400 I don't have a problem if somebody else somewhere else in another town is going to kill themselves

00:59:35.780 or somebody else is going to kill them.

00:59:37.760 And they're a willing participant in the killing.

00:59:39.800 i don't have a problem with that i have a problem with me being taxed for it because i have bills

00:59:45.040 to pay that's my main issue with this is that it's a government program if there was a private

00:59:49.520 company that was like hey do you want to die yeah sure here you go 50 bucks and then you're dead i

00:59:54.620 don't have a fucking problem with that but the idea that it's like that my government is taking

00:59:59.000 my money to form committees to decide who dies there's like a there's a whole list of shit and

01:00:05.500 it all has to do with the fact that it that i'm why do i go to work every day it wasn't for that

01:00:10.880 it wasn't to pay for that so i i hear you counterpoint this is only what i want my tax

01:00:18.880 dollars to go to because you just want to be on the committee because every you raise a good point

01:00:25.100 about the individuals who are you know opting for made right so of the few cases i've seen

01:00:34.020 i've only seen like a handful and the two i saw recently was there's this like fucking 1.00

01:00:39.360 like 400 pound woman who's like i'm gonna kill myself because i can't get a job and i'm too fat 1.00

01:00:46.700 good then there was like this like 17 year old borderline personality disorder pink haired you

01:00:54.020 know septum piercing girl like i want to i have to tell my parents i want to end my life i'm like

01:00:58.580 you know what good this is the only thing i want my tax dollars going to killing specifically these

01:01:03.920 people fuck roads fuck bridges yeah i think we talked about this like a year ago in another

01:01:08.720 episode we're saying like again there's so many better ways to do this like if you want to die

01:01:12.300 and it's legal for a for a hospital administrator to say you can die then why can't i just shoot you

01:01:18.620 it's not fair my ammunition is like 40 cents a round i could put you out of your misery

01:01:23.940 in a snap why do i have to pay all of this money and you get to decide that's not fair

01:01:30.500 like come on i just want to shoot you once again a very nuanced a very layered 0.88

01:01:38.600 political discourse has been summarized as us shooting women yeah well they have weird hair

01:01:45.840 so and one of them's fat so yeah guess what they're all gonna have red hair by the time

01:01:50.980 i'm done with them it's been oof no oof that was good all right all right i got it i got it there's

01:01:59.360 some people are going to hear that and they're going to say,

01:02:01.680 you know what?

01:02:03.040 Four stars out of how many doesn't matter.

01:02:06.760 How many four is enough for some good,

01:02:10.720 it's a good number.

01:02:11.960 No one's going to turn down four.

01:02:13.620 Yeah.

01:02:14.140 Oh shit.

01:02:14.620 That's going to,

01:02:15.380 they're going to clip that.

01:02:16.900 Yeah.

01:02:17.240 No one's going to turn down four.

01:02:18.700 Oh,

01:02:19.140 damn it.

01:02:20.460 I'm going to become the four guy.

01:02:22.940 Settle down there,

01:02:23.540 Kinsey.

01:02:23.820 but anyway ultimately with the main thing the idea i was leading with at the start was

01:02:32.340 is there a way where we could use media manipulation and memes and trickery to convince

01:02:40.240 the mizzies of the world to want to kill themselves by the government just an idea using our our

01:02:47.120 discourse to actually corral these people into it that was it's a it's a long shot but it's so

01:02:54.140 juicy i mean you somebody should try at least now before we get into the you know last you know

01:03:01.080 we're going to talk about a very very interesting book but i wanted to get your opinion on something

01:03:06.280 um so i guess the first question is have you heard about this guy uh rfk jr is that the kennedy yeah

01:03:16.960 Oh, yeah. Like the politician, the guy who's running for the Democratic, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

01:03:23.060 That was in the news lately. I tend to not care.

01:03:26.680 Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is playing up the parallels between his long shot challenge to President Joe Biden

01:03:32.700 and the outsider campaign his father launched for the White House in 1968.

01:03:37.420 He had almost no chance of winning. And it allowed him really, it freed him to just tell the truth.

01:03:44.260 i i keep thinking you brought him up at some point i keep like i remember i could

01:03:49.000 when i thought when i heard rfk jr i heard that being said in your voice and i was thinking like

01:03:56.200 did he talk about this guy in a previous i i think he had been i could be wrong somebody's

01:04:01.700 gonna ding me for this but there was one of the kennedys who has been all up in the anti-vax

01:04:08.120 that's him that's him that's the same guy that's probably why because i remember during the he was

01:04:13.380 kind of towing our line a little bit during the lockdowns so about this very bizarre anti-vaccine

01:04:22.260 rally in washington today just strange stuff happening here in washington strange things afoot

01:04:30.580 here's rfk jr the son of the former attorney general he's an anti-vaxxer making some incredibly

01:04:38.660 offensive comments earlier today let's watch what we're seeing today what we're seeing today

01:04:50.580 is what i call turnkey totalitarianism they are putting in place

01:05:00.420 all of these technical technological mechanisms for control we've never seen before it's been the

01:05:08.340 ambition of every totalitarian state on the beginning of mankind to control every aspect

01:05:16.500 of behavior of conduct of thought and to obliterate dissent yeah not only is he an anti-covid guy he

01:05:27.620 published a book proving the correlation between vaccines and autism no way yes way but but he's a

01:05:37.220 a brain-lit politician congressman or senator or some shit he knows how to write that's crazy he

01:05:42.820 is an environmental lawyer oh so so he doesn't know how to write like he can't read i'm gonna

01:05:49.600 say i like this guy okay i'm just gonna lead with this i'm gonna say just to start i get the same

01:05:57.400 feeling from this guy that i got when trump was running the first time not sorry did you think

01:06:04.160 Is he running for the presidency?

01:06:06.040 I believe he's running for the presidency as a Democrat.

01:06:08.640 As a Democrat?

01:06:09.940 Yeah.

01:06:10.940 This is the thing.

01:06:12.420 So we got this environmentalist.

01:06:15.500 And let me tell you a couple things about this guy.

01:06:17.800 So I saw, because what I like about him, and I'll open with this,

01:06:22.400 is that he's got this sort of kind of cluster of ideas

01:06:29.060 that are designed to upset the prejudices of the system.

01:06:32.920 so one example is this guy first of all he's well put together he's good on a camera he looks good

01:06:39.760 he's the right age he's not too old he's not too young he's got kind of a raspy voice that sounds

01:06:47.100 kind of off but it would be fun to do an impression of you got to have that right he's no he sticks in

01:06:54.520 your head right i saw him on an interview on this show i think it's called burning points 1.00

01:07:00.980 with uh this woman this uh bitch named crystal ball which is annoying of course to everybody

01:07:08.300 but um he advocated for that he's an environmentalist he hates nuclear power

01:07:13.740 right um anti-nuclear power however he is pro um free market capitalism when it comes to developing

01:07:24.160 green technology i was surprised though you did the interview with the allen podcast i knew that

01:07:30.840 you were against nuclear power, but he was talking with something interesting, saying that

01:07:35.060 we should have effectively a completely free market energy system. And I guess I wanted to

01:07:40.320 talk with somebody whose father and uncle famously supported major public initiatives,

01:07:45.640 which didn't necessarily pay out, but yielded massive dividends in the future. Why should

01:07:51.060 nuclear, solar, wind, or any power, honestly, float outside of public support systems if the

01:07:58.360 overall social benefit of it unlocks economic potential.

01:08:03.040 I'm just curious for the objection on the cost alone.

01:08:06.760 You know, I think the market is the best.

01:08:10.040 I mean, here's the thing is,

01:08:12.880 we don't have free market capitalism.

01:08:15.080 Let me just say that.

01:08:15.920 Or free market energy, right?

01:08:17.420 That's what I'm surprised.

01:08:18.820 You know, we have the energy,

01:08:21.440 the rules that come in the energy industry

01:08:23.760 are written by the incumbents

01:08:26.080 to benefit the dirtiest, filthiest, most poisonous,

01:08:32.880 most toxic, most warmongering fuels from hell,

01:08:36.460 rather than the cheap, clean, green, wholesome,

01:08:38.700 and efficient fuels from heaven.

01:08:43.160 In a true free market, true free market

01:08:45.600 promotes efficiency.

01:08:47.360 Efficiency means the elimination of waste,

01:08:49.440 and pollution is waste.

01:08:51.300 In a true free market would require us

01:08:54.680 properly value our natural resources and it is the undervaluation of those resources that cause us

01:09:00.120 to use them wastefully in a true free market you can't make yourself rich without making your

01:09:06.680 neighbors rich without enriching your community what polluters do is they make themselves rich

01:09:11.640 by making everybody else poor certainly they raise standards of living for themselves by lowering

01:09:16.440 quality of life for the rest of us and they do that by escaping the discipline of the free market

01:09:21.080 so he's like i don't like nuclear power but i am pro free market i'm pro capitalism on develop

01:09:27.560 on supercharging contradictory that's contradictory well i don't because up until now

01:09:32.780 all it seems to me at least from my perspective that all development of green technology has been

01:09:39.540 done by the government and he's been saying that's fucked up i think there's good green technology i

01:09:44.740 think we need to put it in the hands of private corporations to develop something that's way way

01:09:49.340 better and more interesting because wind farms fucking suck and i'm like that's such a perfectly

01:09:54.840 crafted i've never heard that position before they don't know how to react to it and that's

01:10:00.940 just like trump like the he's not supposed to have these opinions side by side because

01:10:06.760 everyone's like yeah he is kind of like a old school fucking liberal but he wants to build a

01:10:12.300 wall between mexico he upsets the system and i'm like that's that there's there's an energy and

01:10:18.220 electricity to that that i don't see in anyone else i think he is and we'll see how this plays

01:10:23.900 out i don't i'm not making any predictions but he strikes me as the closest thing to a democratic

01:10:29.180 trump because i i counted the democrats i'm like there's no interesting guy that can come to the

01:10:35.080 the interesting people is the squad is the alex yeah the alexandria ocasio cortez is and they're

01:10:40.860 fucking insane reachers like this guy i'm like there's something here where i'm like i think he

01:10:45.100 can pull together like he he can pull in the anti-vax crowd he can pull in the environmentalists

01:10:52.900 he's speaking to the free market capitalists like this is none of whom are in his base

01:10:59.540 but maybe that works this is like mom takes all the leftovers from the last week and tries to

01:11:05.860 make fusion food and you're just blown away like this is really interesting i don't even know what

01:11:10.240 say these are flavors and smells i've never even seen on the same dish before like he here's a guy

01:11:16.120 who can and i'm not saying like i love the democrats but i'm like this is a guy that could

01:11:20.480 i think slap a new coat of paint on the democratic party and here's what he did here's this is kind

01:11:28.160 of what i'm leading to that he also came out and agreed that the election was most likely rigged

01:11:35.740 against trump because what had happened was the durham report came out recently uh the durham

01:11:42.680 report uh if people don't know i'll summarize it um there's a lot to unpack in the durham report but

01:11:49.880 in short it's it proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that trump was not in collusion with russia

01:11:56.920 that was made up by hillary clinton and the clinton campaign and the fbi knew it the entire time

01:12:05.540 Okay, John Durham, a Trump-era special counsel assigned to infamously investigate the investigation into former President Donald Trump's alleged ties to Russia, released a bombshell, 305-page report, and after roughly four years, it found that, in fact, there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

01:12:26.400 And the FBI should never have launched a probe into the matter to begin with.

01:12:31.280 Even CNN admits the report is a devastating blow to the agency and exonerates Donald Trump.

01:12:36.660 Here's Jake Tapper. Let's watch.

01:12:38.820 Regardless, the report is now here. It has dropped.

01:12:41.580 And it might not have produced everything of what some Republicans hoped for.

01:12:44.400 It is regardless devastating to the FBI.

01:12:48.600 And to a degree, it does exonerate Donald Trump.

01:12:51.900 Yeah. The world also knew, by the way, obviously.

01:12:55.700 But, I mean, we had to wait for them to also agree with us.

01:12:58.940 Yeah.

01:12:59.460 And then RFK Jr. comes out and says, yeah, that's a fucking problem.

01:13:03.000 Like, I think it was he had a tweet where he's like, odds are that the election was

01:13:09.360 rigged against Trump and liberals think that's a crazy thing to say.

01:13:13.780 But it was also liberals who believed that George W.

01:13:17.640 Bush stole the election from Al Gore.

01:13:20.720 He's like, there's a lot of elections where people claim it was stolen.

01:13:23.580 And you know what?

01:13:24.220 They probably were.

01:13:25.700 And the hard part is that there's no way to prove he's like, so if let's actually have a serious conversation about making elections that aren't fraudulent.

01:13:35.460 And he was actually conceding from the Democratic position that Trump might have rightfully won that election.

01:13:43.540 Now, what I think that's kind of a problem, because what I think is and again, speculation, what do I know?

01:13:51.140 breaking the rule i'm predicting things but i think that only helps trump because i didn't think

01:13:58.820 trump really had a chance this election against biden but it's kind of you know we talked about

01:14:06.260 this last episode there's a lot of stuff that's going right for trump right now uh basically all

01:14:12.020 proving beyond the shadow of a doubt and it depends how much trump is going to hammer this home

01:14:16.420 if he decides to hammer home that look i was right about everything the media the fbi

01:14:22.900 hillary clinton everyone lied about me and and everything was fraud and like everything he said

01:14:30.200 was true right even like the election being stolen so if i were trump what i would do

01:14:38.400 is i would not treat robert f kennedy jr like a marco rubio i wouldn't treat him like some jackass

01:14:46.200 to throw darts at i'd say you could imagine this in his voice i'm not good at a trump impression

01:14:51.420 but he would say like and if you look a good a guy like rfk jr smart guy i love him and i would

01:14:57.660 love to deal with him across the aisle i would love to speak with him he's a smart guy i mean

01:15:02.620 come on he's a smart guy but even he agrees that the election was stolen from me like he's going

01:15:08.040 to use the momentum of that to bolster his position uh and he would be right to and rfk

01:15:14.960 jr isn't like the mudslinger that trump is so he might very well play into that that's my worry

01:15:20.180 but like i still look at rfk jr like i'm like he's got some of the sauce that i think trump had

01:15:27.920 in that he doesn't fit the mold and he's he's gonna bring people to the that's what trump did

01:15:32.980 he brought people to the table who weren't used to being at the table i think he could actually

01:15:37.900 like bridge some groups that aren't used to being bridge and that that sounds crazy i'm sure a lot

01:15:44.880 people who think that sounds crazy um and maybe i'll be completely wrong but i don't know there's

01:15:50.060 something there because everyone counted trump out too everyone said he's gonna get one percent

01:15:53.840 and then look what happens yeah yeah but i mean trump trump never came out i actually see what

01:16:02.160 you're saying about his about his personality and kind of the way that he behaves um as a character

01:16:07.680 but i mean trump did not come into election season with a platform that was like half

01:16:14.600 stuff from the other side of the aisle you know what i mean like anti-vax and election theft and

01:16:21.740 all of this shit which is not just not just right-wing talking points but like what are now

01:16:26.680 known as dissident right or extreme right talking points and this guy who's apparently a democratic

01:16:33.420 candidate is running with like the quote-unquote nazi propaganda of you know the election was

01:16:41.620 stolen from trump and hillary clinton's the devil and the vaccine kills people and causes autism

01:16:47.080 and like holy shit look i think it's great i just it seems to me he's completely unelectable just

01:16:54.220 because of how partisan everything but that's the thing my thing is like i hear exactly what you're

01:16:59.200 saying my fear is that he pulls it off my fear is that he launders those talks because the whole

01:17:06.460 point of our side being anti-covid was that's probably the most reasonable position that we

01:17:12.640 have over here and it's it's kind of crazy that that became a thing that just we have

01:17:18.860 oh you're saying that even if he even if he loses he may succeed in pulling the more reasonable

01:17:25.260 dissident talking points into the left-wing sphere and yeah you know what you're right

01:17:30.120 that's my fear that now he's going to be the guy who lets people feel comfortable saying that

01:17:35.480 you know what the covid lockdowns were insane you know what there was government over he'll do it

01:17:40.600 and actually we were against them the whole time because because we liberals believe in personal

01:17:45.560 freedom and they're he's going to take that from our side because that's ours right now

01:17:50.060 for now and maybe he takes the vaccines cause autism thing too holy shit you know and then

01:17:58.280 guys like joe rogan get behind him because maybe guys like a lot of the left of center guys who've

01:18:04.580 been maligned for being conservatives that have never liked that like joe rogan sees himself as

01:18:09.560 a liberal and he's become a right-wing guy against his will but this is his pathway out of that

01:18:16.820 because now maybe it's a democratic talking point all this shit about aren't vaccines weird

01:18:23.100 maybe because he's in i gotta read his book i think we might even cover the book on the show

01:18:28.460 because i'd love to read a serious book about the correlation between vaccines and cases of autism

01:18:35.080 rising i've never actually read a solid book about that i've just heard it floating in the discourse

01:18:41.260 right you know same you know i'm thinking about the relationship between the the vaccine autism

01:18:49.380 lockdown thing and also the trump election steal thing those are like incidental beliefs or

01:18:57.580 conspiracy theories they actually are almost principle free or moral free and he's not touching

01:19:03.600 abortion you know racial crime statistics he's not touching immigration he's not touching even

01:19:10.920 like war is he touching on on like the war in anywhere ukraine of the stuff the stuff that's

01:19:17.400 partisan that's actually related to political principle political philosophy it seems like

01:19:23.560 unless this is just the context of the conversation you and i are having maybe there's other

01:19:26.520 shit but within this context it almost seems like it is laundering because he's taking the parts

01:19:32.200 that are you know principle agnostic and he's laundering them into left-wing ideas it really

01:19:38.760 here's what i think and i'm gonna uh proceed this by just reading a title of a video that i had

01:19:45.820 pulled up robert f kennedy jr's keynote speech at bitcoin 2023 so rfk jr is bitcoin's a third one

01:19:56.840 that's totally principle free even then the free market thing as well free market i know people

01:20:01.480 think it's right wing it's not it's principle free left-wing libertarians if they examine what

01:20:06.100 they believe they also believe the same thing essentially so like these are not these aren't

01:20:10.160 even political this is fucking laundry i honestly think this i was using this to answer your

01:20:15.600 question was i think he just copies and pastes ron paul's positions on war honestly like i think

01:20:21.960 i could see ron paul's views on war on foreign intervention on the ukraine just coming out of

01:20:28.140 his mouth i don't know for sure this is just that's funny because in fairness for the longest

01:20:32.980 time that democrats were the anti-war party right or at least more so than the republicans so yeah

01:20:39.580 and that's uh-oh now he's got some nationalists going to his side now he's got some patriots that

01:20:46.200 like what he's saying uh-oh you know and but you'd say you know no position on abortion and if he does

01:20:53.480 have a position on abortion it would be you know willy-nilly it would be i actually i did i think

01:20:58.800 i saw his position on abortion now that i think about it yeah so his position i criticized his

01:21:05.740 position when it was brought to me the guy who's really into this actually i know you probably

01:21:11.800 don't like this but it's christopher sandbatch um he's a big rfk junior guy but and he was

01:21:17.640 showing what rfk was doing saying about abortion totally fence sitting riding the line saying that

01:21:24.640 look no what was it something like of course no one likes killing babies of course no one likes

01:21:30.960 this but we also have to respect bodily autonomy just that sort of wishy-washy clip yeah so a lot

01:21:36.840 of his positions would be you know try and maybe make the gestures to the conservatives like look

01:21:43.540 no one likes these crazy leftists no one likes the the bread tubers no one likes the you know

01:21:50.580 the kooky people but let's be honest and you know what i'm changing my mind i'm changing my opinion

01:21:55.760 on this it he it could be he could it could be a hat trick and he could pull it off he could

01:22:01.880 swing enough people over to his side he could keep enough of the dems because he isn't actually

01:22:07.600 compromising on their core principles and he and he may actually bring a lot of center right people

01:22:13.060 over with this that's fucking and honestly ever since roe v wade was struck down i think the wind

01:22:20.440 was taken out of the sails on abortion generally i think for a lot of people for a lot of the fire

01:22:26.300 brands on abortion they they feel like they won they feel like you know roe v wade was struck

01:22:31.560 down you know that was our our big final battle that was a storm in the beaches of normandy it's

01:22:37.400 back to the states now yeah that's back to the states so i think you know abortion isn't going

01:22:41.560 to be anymore and i don't really hear really a lot of democrats fighting against that it just

01:22:47.740 seems that people kind of accepted it maybe i'm wrong i just don't see it brought up on the news

01:22:52.680 a lot i think people just kind of let it go so maybe abortion is not even on the docket anymore

01:22:57.040 um war in ukraine people are i think people forgot that's happening frankly it's really

01:23:03.020 only progressives that are really hammering on that um then like what are the topics of the day

01:23:08.800 really i mean covid shit yeah trans shit um what what's america like a couple of canadians talking

01:23:17.540 about what the election's gonna slide but uh anyway but that's just i'm looking at this and

01:23:23.400 i want to keep an eye on this maybe i'm wrong it'd be hilarious if i was wrong but i don't

01:23:31.160 i think i'm actually uh sandbatch he made a tweet that i really agree with he's like

01:23:35.760 can we all admit all we want to see is a three-hour interview between rfk jr and tucker carlson

01:23:42.640 i'm like yes yeah yes of course i'd watch that for nine hours i don't know i don't know that'd

01:23:49.380 be it that make sure you watch it on two times speed i would watch that on slow-mo yeah that

01:23:54.220 would every liberal would watch that too i think that's like what else what else is there to even

01:23:59.880 watch you know because you know aside from trump giving a few sly jabs and you know some crowd work

01:24:08.560 i'm like i'm not terribly invigorated by trump you know i'd love to see rfk jr on a stage with

01:24:15.400 trump that'd be great oh sorry you're talking to you fucking judas wife no no she's she's good

01:24:24.160 she's offering me a bottle of irish whiskey a whole bottle she noticed yeah because my my 1.00

01:24:29.620 glass of beer is empty i'll take it oh she's gonna finish it fine can you give me another beer

01:24:35.340 i love you thank you sorry sorry we're back we're back um i i think it's kind of over

01:24:45.540 right from a glass of beer to a bottle of whiskey yeah that takes me back uh that that transition

01:24:52.740 um yeah also just just to reiterate for people um the derm report really did blow my mind

01:25:01.100 i didn't expect them to publicly release like this is them releasing information that aliens exist

01:25:08.440 to me yeah this is like oh yeah all that stuff you thought you were all right like it's great

01:25:13.860 but you honestly never expect it to happen it's a genuine surprise yeah it is this is what

01:25:19.200 vindication feels like doesn't it feel hollow doesn't it feel like the the wind is stopped and

01:25:26.480 and you're sitting here and nothing's happening and you're eating an apple yeah well when it's

01:25:31.560 three years too late then yeah yeah isn't it isn't it crazy that in the germ report they said

01:25:36.660 yeah this was orchestrated by the fbi this was insanely corrupt it was preposterous it destroyed

01:25:44.940 the nation for four years and we recommend nothing be done about it did they not have

01:25:51.060 recommendations well they basically recommended that nothing be done that the recommendation

01:25:56.100 was that just let it go what yeah and i don't you know i don't want to get us in trouble

01:26:02.840 but something needs to happen right how about prison how about even like one year prison

01:26:08.520 sentences how about people being disbarred from from practicing law how about people losing their

01:26:13.020 jobs or like people being removed from positions of power within democratic politics like there's

01:26:18.400 a lot of really simple things i'm not this isn't even dissident stuff i don't want to shoot anybody

01:26:22.380 i just want those people who did this thing to like not be able to make laws anymore like come on

01:26:29.620 jesus something should happen right something anything i am not a conservative i'm not a

01:26:37.480 republican not really a trump guy anymore however i truly believe that at this point america is owed

01:26:48.160 hillary clinton in prison something if if what happens is that at the end of this hillary clinton

01:26:56.780 gets arrested at least give me that right that would be nice but it's like wanting a pony for

01:27:03.840 christmas i know but like i won't say oh that's no structural change the system still exists i

01:27:10.800 know i just oh it's just candy it's just candy i just want it yeah i just want to see it i just

01:27:16.380 i think it'd be funny and cool yeah i want i want everyone to get a day off and i want hillary

01:27:24.140 clinton to be the most confused woman in the world i want her to want i want everyone around

01:27:29.800 to not understand why it's happening

01:27:31.640 and I get to watch them understand

01:27:34.180 that it is happening.

01:27:38.140 Because there's so many cameras.

01:27:40.640 There's so many cameras.

01:27:42.220 Everyone's got a camera. 1.00

01:27:43.600 I want a camera on her in her bedroom 0.91

01:27:46.380 at 4.30 in the morning.

01:27:48.260 I want to follow her throughout the day

01:27:50.000 when there's a no-knock raid

01:27:51.720 and she's taken in

01:27:52.640 and she's just thrown in a jail.

01:27:54.040 There's a court case 0.95

01:27:55.600 that takes seven and a half minutes. 0.99

01:27:57.880 But she actually escapes

01:27:59.180 and she steals a guy's Camry

01:28:00.680 and they lose her for like three days

01:28:02.300 and then they find her in like a Wendy's

01:28:04.380 and then they have to chase her through the brush 0.98

01:28:07.140 and she's wearing stolen clothes

01:28:08.560 and they like catch her 0.81

01:28:09.720 and drag her up out of the ravine onto the pavement 0.55

01:28:11.860 and there's like blood on her face.

01:28:13.560 That would be so great.

01:28:14.920 This would be like, I'm loving this already.

01:28:17.020 You were opposed to it at the start.

01:28:19.040 Now you're in it.

01:28:19.940 Now you're in the mix.

01:28:20.840 Now you're having fun.

01:28:21.620 Everyone listening to this

01:28:22.680 can think of a thousand great ways this could go.

01:28:25.400 She escapes. 1.00

01:28:26.800 Maybe she brings a gun to court. 1.00

01:28:28.600 oh oh that'd be awesome maybe she takes a hostage maybe she gets away

01:28:34.760 hillary clinton takes a hostage maybe hillary clinton gets away with it i'll accept that i 1.00

01:28:41.820 just want to see her arrested and on the way to jail and then maybe she's got a joker-like plan 1.00

01:28:47.500 right there's the recommendations at the end of the durham report where we should arrest hillary 0.88

01:28:56.540 but actually she gets away and but they find her but she's taken a hostage but

01:29:00.840 it just goes through the end of the derm report interior night it's just a script

01:29:08.020 it's his way of pitching a script it's a fucking report look we're just spitballing here but this

01:29:16.720 is 70 hot pages guess what no dialogue this is all action one long shot yeah

01:29:28.400 he's doing like hack stuff it's like in the this should all be one shot

01:29:33.760 and it should look like a michael mann movie however you do that

01:29:38.540 it's gotta look like hot i don't know how you do that but make the movie look hot

01:29:46.720 They're like Man on Fire.

01:29:48.480 It's like whatever that effect is all the time.

01:29:51.280 John Durham, the auteur.

01:29:53.920 Can you get Denzel?

01:29:55.420 And real amateur shit where it includes a cast list at the start.

01:30:00.240 Yeah.

01:30:00.680 Oh, no.

01:30:02.300 Denzel Washington is Obama.

01:30:04.840 Denzel Washington.

01:30:06.520 Oh, they had to write Obama in.

01:30:09.000 Yeah.

01:30:09.920 It's like, okay, you just wanted to write for Obama.

01:30:12.460 His scene doesn't even make sense.

01:30:14.040 you carried this over from another script

01:30:16.880 I'm reading two other scripts in this

01:30:18.920 oh yeah you're gonna get

01:30:24.400 oh who's that the lawyers play Rick Moranis

01:30:26.860 you're not getting a Rick Moranis

01:30:28.440 I know you like Rick Moranis

01:30:30.780 I know you're a film guy

01:30:32.520 I know we're off on a tangent

01:30:36.600 but the script at the end of the Durham report

01:30:38.900 is such a great fucking bit

01:30:40.160 oh man

01:30:41.400 all right uh speaking of corruption um we're going to seg you into the serious part

01:30:52.760 and and i think you're going to be excited about this one and i there's going to be parts in this

01:30:58.900 where i might throw to you i haven't prepared you for this but it's going to deal with chinese

01:31:04.380 culture. I know you're not a Chinese man yourself, but you spent time in Hong Kong. And I think you

01:31:11.640 will be familiar with a lot of the groups I'm talking about. Now, this episode and the next

01:31:18.100 episode, we're going to be moving into an arc on geopolitics. We've got several books lined up

01:31:26.840 that explore some very serious, some very large geopolitical concepts. Some stuff we've talked

01:31:32.860 about before we talked about uh john meersheimer and offensive realism in the past this will be

01:31:37.040 in that same vein and also like when we discussed uh edward lutwak's coup d'etat book that sort of

01:31:43.380 thing and we're starting with this because i thought it was very immediate um it's about uh

01:31:51.460 canada so this book we're going to be talking about is called claws of the panda very funny

01:31:59.840 title for what it's about. It's Beijing's campaign of influence and intimidation in Canada.

01:32:06.860 Now, this is written by Jonathan Manthorpe, who's a highly respected author, highly respected

01:32:13.260 authority on this topic, on the topic of the Chinese relationship with Canada.

01:32:19.680 For many Canadians, the recent diplomatic spat between Canada and China over Huawei

01:32:24.600 pointed to clandestine activities that most people know nothing about.

01:32:29.300 But such matters are no surprise to Jonathan Manthorpe.

01:32:32.920 He spent four decades abroad as a Canadian foreign correspondent, much of it in China.

01:32:37.180 His new book, Claws of the Panda, Beijing's Campaign of Influence and Intimidation in Canada,

01:32:43.540 explores some very underexamined elements in the relations between our two nations.

01:32:48.640 Can't help but notice it's kind of a racist title.

01:32:52.580 You know what I mean?

01:32:53.480 Like if I, if I'm a lib, I'm saying I would name it that I'd call it Claus of the Panda, but I'm a schizophrenic.

01:33:00.540 This is a lib calling Claus of the Panda.

01:33:02.460 I'm looking at this like, you know, think of something a bit more tasteful than that.

01:33:07.320 But this book deals with, deals with a lot.

01:33:10.880 I'm going to focus on this episode on the relationship of the Chinese Communist Party in Canadian politics and economics.

01:33:20.860 Next episode, we're going to focus a bit more on the organized crime aspects.

01:33:26.220 And the through line of this is those two things work hand in glove.

01:33:33.420 And that will be revealed more next episode.

01:33:35.740 But this episode, we're going to be setting the stage about how the Chinese Communist Party,

01:33:40.820 over the past few decades, has gained a foothold in Canada, specifically on the West Coast,

01:33:47.340 but really all through Canada, and what that means.

01:33:50.360 You know, in my life, I'm sure in yours as well, and you could jump in just to clarify this.

01:33:56.560 It's kind of known in this country that the Chinese government has a pretty firm stance in Canada, at least in real estate.

01:34:07.220 And this has been discussed in Canadian news.

01:34:09.980 And it's kind of something everyone knows, but no one talks about.

01:34:14.440 Would that be your experience as well?

01:34:16.160 and also like all these you know chinese cultural societies in schools and post-secondary schools

01:34:25.940 and colleges universities and there's been no shortage of scandals in recent history of chinese

01:34:33.080 you know employees of companies selling trade secrets to the government and people who've been

01:34:37.900 arrested or even exiled for that purpose and everyone everyone knows it and this is something

01:34:43.020 that even a lot of liberals will talk about which is you know this book Jonathan Manthorpe this guy

01:34:47.720 is not a conservative in any sense I don't think but it's something that you know even everyone

01:34:53.860 kind of has to reckon with and I think it's not brought up nearly enough so um

01:35:00.580 so because it's written by a liberal however there are some biases that reveal themselves

01:35:08.540 in the book and so just off the start um you know he mentions a few times how he views canadian

01:35:16.120 history as inherently racist um he he believes that china will deceit what he calls pax americana

01:35:25.940 in the 21st century um and he truly believes that canada if it brokers the correct relationship

01:35:34.880 with china can achieve some kind of world power status um what are your thoughts on that i know

01:35:43.360 we've talked this before but just right for people who don't know what are your thoughts on china

01:35:47.580 becoming the global superpower of the 21st century no no they're already collapsing it's never going

01:35:53.120 to the only way it could possibly happen is if we collapse faster than they are already collapsing

01:35:59.080 which which might actually happen but it's never going to be like china global superpower with

01:36:05.140 their fingers in every pie they can barely maintain it over their own people so no it's not going to

01:36:10.140 happen yeah because a lot of people will they're very keenly aware of the demographic problems and

01:36:15.900 the birth rate collapses affecting the west and what they forget is that exact same collapse is

01:36:21.040 happening all throughout china in the same way that their growth was like accelerated and it was

01:36:26.680 like a like uh like a multiplied version of our own growth their collapse is now being accelerated

01:36:31.820 like they're in all of their urban centers they're well but they're not even below replacement they're

01:36:36.140 like below like one woman perfect or one sorry one child per family right now and they have been for

01:36:42.460 a while and that and again they've removed the one child policy decades ago this is essentially the

01:36:47.480 exact same shit that's going on here which is you've got a dystopian society that everybody hates

01:36:52.420 half of the people our age and younger just want to fucking kill themselves it's so awful to live

01:36:56.680 there they're not going to have kids they have huge civil strife issues like it's it's a it's

01:37:01.960 not going anywhere china's dead in the water and it has been for a long time and there was one note

01:37:05.600 it was either in this book or the one we'll cover tomorrow but it had a statistic that surprised me

01:37:10.260 which is that like there's something like well over 500 serious protests that happen in china

01:37:17.100 like every year oh yeah there's a lot of populist uprisings because people outside of china assume

01:37:22.680 it's this especially on the right we assume that china is this like homogenous collectivist beehive

01:37:28.000 and it's like no there's a lot of fucking you know burning cars and protests and marches too

01:37:32.560 isn't there not just the hong kong stuff but in mainland china as well you just don't hear about

01:37:37.400 that much well because i mean they have the the firewall right so it's completely locked down

01:37:42.220 they'll have protests where locals will like blockade every highway in and out of a village

01:37:49.400 or a town and take over the entire town like for weeks but then they just literally send pla in

01:37:55.600 and they they socially nuke the thing and everybody goes to a black site and that that never makes it

01:38:01.660 into the news i only know about this shit because it circulates within hong kong so but that i mean

01:38:06.100 there's huge huge civil unrest in china and there has been essentially since the 1950s

01:38:11.380 and that's part of the reason that they spend so much more money on policing than they do on

01:38:16.220 their military like their policing budget is something stupid like five times their military

01:38:20.260 budget so i had no idea that's fucking crazy no their policing budget is fucking hilarious they

01:38:24.960 have that's why they have all the shit with the security cameras and the social credit score if

01:38:28.640 they don't have that they have no way of maintaining control it's because it's fucking it's a flywheel

01:38:33.700 spinning out of control right yeah and that kind of builds into what i was going to talk about which

01:38:38.820 is the uh you heard about the one belt one road initiative yes i have okay so the book kind of

01:38:45.520 yeah yeah the group the book sorry describes it as china's attempt to buy up significant stakes

01:38:53.040 in struggling nations especially in their port cities to create a trade dominance within the

01:38:58.240 region and to emerge from what they called the century of humiliation which is a very funny term

01:39:04.640 So is that correctly?

01:39:06.620 What's your understanding of the One Belt, One Road?

01:39:08.500 Oh, yeah.

01:39:09.340 No, I've actually, when I was in China, the business that I was running, we worked with some of the companies in the Middle East that were part of this initiative.

01:39:17.720 But what it is, first of all, it's colonialism.

01:39:20.460 Nobody wants to say that, but that's what it is.

01:39:22.140 They go in and they'll pay for infrastructure.

01:39:24.820 And then when the country, sorry, in the Middle East or Africa can't pay the debt, then they're saying, well, that's fine.

01:39:30.400 But now we own the infrastructure.

01:39:31.520 So we own your deep water port.

01:39:32.940 We own your coal plants.

01:39:34.000 and we own your iron mine and whatever else the problem with this is uh you have the retarded

01:39:41.180 yokels in the third world but it's you know they're being managed by the chinese who are

01:39:46.800 almost as bad so like they're not like you've got you've got chinese infrastructure in africa and

01:39:51.840 it's like that's a step up from from from african infrastructure but not but not a big step right

01:39:57.340 yeah so it's not like the stuff that they're building people kind of sometimes paint it like

01:40:01.060 oh china's taking over africa and they're building bases like yeah bases that are now

01:40:05.080 made out of like crumbling red brick instead of clay right a lot of people forget that they

01:40:10.640 build these buildings out of chinese people yes oh we were just talking about oh no we're talking

01:40:15.440 about naked japanese men but that's a different construction technique it's a little bit you know

01:40:19.080 yeah yeah different types of columns um but but there's a part here that essentially summarizes

01:40:27.560 that he says um this was written when was this published let me just get my dates correct here

01:40:32.880 it was published not long ago but um 2019 so that's the context when this is written so not

01:40:41.060 much has changed but he says for two decades or so the communist party of china ccp state-owned

01:40:49.220 companies and banks have been using the gargantuan profits from the export of manufactured consumer

01:40:55.320 goods to acquire control of natural resources worldwide. Beijing has also been astute in

01:41:03.100 offering cheap loans to governments others considered too risky. Too late, the recipients

01:41:08.500 find out that when they are unable to repay the loans, the CCP agents are ruthless in demanding

01:41:13.620 assets instead. That's how the CCP got control of the strategic Sri Lankan port of

01:41:20.160 ham bentota and 60 square kilometers of land around it something similar happening uh when

01:41:27.640 greece fell on hard times and could no longer get loans from the european union beijing stepped in

01:41:33.740 to help but the upshot is that the chinese state-owned company owns half of athens and the

01:41:39.540 athens port of piraeus so like that's the thing and so the reason that matters is because just

01:41:46.900 think of how they could deploy that strategy anywhere else that is more or less what's

01:41:51.700 happening in canada and there's many cases we might not get to all of them today but china

01:41:57.200 has been doing the exact same thing trying to buy up canadian infrastructure so when you hear about

01:42:04.160 china buying up land or buying up strategic companies that have you know contracts with

01:42:11.060 other manufacturers that's kind of what they're doing they're trying to buy up trade vectors

01:42:16.880 so right so i'll get to some some of the general points here so they're trying to get out of the

01:42:23.920 century of humiliation i love the way the chinese people let me just say this i love the names they

01:42:28.740 have for things it's it part of the chinese psyche or like the way that their politics work

01:42:35.540 they are defined externally like there's very little about them that isn't either russian or

01:42:42.400 american or german or french really they have they have nothing yeah and and especially the

01:42:47.180 whole thing of like the century of humiliation all of their motivation and their philosophy

01:42:51.740 comes from their relationship with the the us and the uk and portugal and like it they don't really

01:42:59.020 have their own personality it's ironic it's almost like like with their ip and manufacturing it's all

01:43:05.420 fucking copied they can't think of something that's like theirs it always has to be in the

01:43:11.120 context of someone else's work or success yeah there's nothing generative from within yeah it's

01:43:17.780 very interesting that they gained so much momentum with that disjointed worldview so we'll start by

01:43:24.620 saying some facts that Canada has been the target destination of Chinese refugees including Hong

01:43:29.820 Kongers which I'm sure you're aware of but also Uyghurs and Tibetans they use their Canadian

01:43:35.520 passport mainly as a shield from which to agitate for change back in china so that's kind of a

01:43:42.660 relationship a lot of these chinese refugees have when they arrive in canada is they immediately

01:43:47.520 become political operatives to bring the canadians into their fight with the chinese government

01:43:53.420 and as a result canada has become a battleground and a stage where china fights what it calls its

01:44:00.820 five poisonous groups um and these five poisonous groups again funny title it's all related to the

01:44:07.440 chinese dissidents um and so a couple of those will sound familiar but one of them is um like

01:44:15.320 the falun gong do you know about them the falun oh yeah i know about them okay so so i guess the

01:44:21.880 point i was going to make was i'll just use them as example there's like five groups that they're

01:44:25.560 against tibetans are another uyghurs are another these groups that they're trying to and what

01:44:30.140 they'll do is they'll um you know they'll hack their computers make harassing phone calls they'll

01:44:35.000 actually do gang stalking gang stalking isn't just a 4chan thing it's something that governments can

01:44:40.980 and have done attack their relatives who are still in china it happens all the fucking time

01:44:46.060 oftentimes torture arresting um and then sometimes that reaches out into canada

01:44:52.040 uh the problem is that in my opinion canadians don't have an interest in this shit because the

01:45:01.380 fact of the matter is that falun gong whatever it is whatever their claim is they're still like a

01:45:08.000 weird foreign thing i don't give a shit about right well it's a cult it is it's an actual cult

01:45:13.040 and if you look at their beliefs

01:45:14.640 Falun Gong, also known as Falun Dafa, started in China in 1992.

01:45:24.560 It was based on traditional meditation and breathing exercises called qigong.

01:45:30.760 But its founder, Li Hongzhu, added a supernatural layer.

01:45:36.560 It would prepare people to return home to heavenly kingdoms where they had once dwelled.

01:45:41.840 it would even teach practitioners to levitate well then i don't know the whole thing a bit

01:45:49.420 but it's uh it's it's like you know what it is it's chinese scientology it promises you

01:45:55.840 everything as long as you give them a bunch of money and volunteer all of your time and we're

01:46:00.380 gonna solve your soul and maybe one day we'll all commit suicide together who knows because

01:46:04.500 the guy who runs the thing i think is still alive and he's supposed to be like the reincarnation of

01:46:09.260 jesus like it's it's insane and again like scientology at face value they do well if you

01:46:14.700 ever see in in they have these all over canada because falun gong actually has a big foothold

01:46:18.140 in canada they have these uh i think it's called shen yun performing arts where it's like the

01:46:23.300 chinese acrobats and stuff it's all falun gong and it's there in to get westerners to go and

01:46:28.380 appreciate chinese culture but it's actually and then at the end they give you a little presentation

01:46:32.920 about the cult and they try to get people to donate and join the cult my my old boss's wife

01:46:38.060 was one of these people so that was my main exposure to it and then seeing them all the

01:46:41.460 time in Hong Kong because they also are in Hong Kong but in China they are actually just

01:46:46.040 vanned all the fucking time because they are virulently anti-government so yeah well this

01:46:53.100 is a funny thing it mentions that Amnesty International actually did a report on Canadian

01:46:58.660 infiltration of the CCP and this whole thing with Falun Gong and the Uyghurs and Tibetans and

01:47:03.780 now the canadian government and this is going to be a common theme the canadian government has been

01:47:08.280 slow to act if acting at all and um one of the reasons given in the book and i kind of agree

01:47:14.360 with this although i there's other reasons why but one reason is this all just seems too weird

01:47:19.920 there actually is no good guy in this like it's hard for me to get on the side of falun gong it's

01:47:26.880 hard for me to get on the side of tibet i don't actually give a shit about tibet i don't give a

01:47:31.620 shit about the uyghurs so for most canadians when they look at this thing from a distance they're

01:47:35.980 like i just see a bunch of chinese bullshit i don't i don't feel invested in any of this yeah

01:47:41.300 it's hard for me because i can't pick out a good guy i guess you could fight it out like who's

01:47:46.080 who's in the wrong here we don't know and you shouldn't and you shouldn't have to like these

01:47:49.900 are internal problems this is like why would the chinese care about the canadian trucker protest

01:47:53.640 well this is the thing they should the problem is that you need to hear about this at all

01:47:57.340 the fact the problem is that canada is a stage for this bullshit yeah you need to hear about

01:48:04.260 falun god like i already have we already have scientology we already have a bunch of our

01:48:08.760 bullshit we got to worry about and i got to have the knockoff chinese version too

01:48:12.820 what's a chinese l ron hubbard like well not as good as our l ron hubbard yeah who was already

01:48:21.320 not as good as jesus but close hello it would just be our it'd be our ron hubbard

01:48:28.280 our lawn hubbard

01:48:34.080 how bold that's a we gotta go we gotta go letter by letter to get this one right this is our

01:48:44.380 all right so um then there's the mss which is china's military intelligence network

01:48:53.900 um and this is a network a lot like the kgb because the kgb was a soviet era network just

01:49:00.640 like the mss was a maoist network which survived in some form didn't officially survive but the

01:49:07.540 KGB is still kind of there in spirit.

01:49:12.000 And they're instrumental in the deployment of civilian spies throughout the world.

01:49:20.020 So this is why when people talk about Chinese civilian spies, it's a very, very real thing.

01:49:26.020 It's been a big problem, especially in Americans' weapons labs.

01:49:31.020 He's got a line here.

01:49:32.500 He says,

01:50:02.500 Chinese illegals have been found planted

01:50:04.660 in all the major American

01:50:06.860 weapons laboratories including

01:50:08.780 the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory

01:50:10.560 Los Alamos, Oak Ridge

01:50:12.380 and Sandia. The CCP's

01:50:14.960 hall according to the 1999

01:50:16.920 House of Representatives

01:50:18.640 Select Committee of the US

01:50:20.080 Nation Security and Military Commercial

01:50:22.420 big long name

01:50:24.940 included some

01:50:26.620 what they stole included the design

01:50:28.380 information on all the United

01:50:30.700 states's most advanced thermonuclear weapons classified information on seven types of american

01:50:36.680 nuclear warheads and design information on an enhanced radiation weapon commonly known as the

01:50:42.380 neutron bomb so basically if there's a weapons lab there are chinese spies in it to the point

01:50:48.920 where and this is kind of the problem you almost need to like not employ chinese people yes that

01:50:56.440 is like no one wants it but that is kind unless you have to do such vetting on them that i think

01:51:02.800 you just need to like you'd be safer not to hire them right yeah yep absolutely and look it's not

01:51:10.060 like they're that smart they're all lying on their fucking lsats and getting other people to write

01:51:13.340 their exams anyway so if you just stopped hiring chinese engineers you wouldn't actually suffer a

01:51:19.020 big loss to be honest yeah um and this leads into another group uh deployed by i use the word

01:51:25.100 deployed a lot in this i apologize um controlled by the ccp is called the united front and the

01:51:32.280 united front was created under mao and it was actually expanded under xi jinping and what

01:51:38.700 you'll notice is nothing really changed much under xi jinping aside from the business relations but

01:51:45.400 a lot of the internal institutions created by mao were just adopted by xi jinping and expanded

01:51:52.720 so united front is an organization a spy organization that sees in their words it

01:51:59.640 sees every chinese foreign national as a potential fifth columnist um and so they go out there and

01:52:07.180 they use ethnic appeals to turn all chinese targets to help the motherland um and in one of

01:52:15.020 the united front manuals they discovered they were boasting about how they were able to influence

01:52:21.680 toronto elections yeah um so hold on it says a key part of the expansion of the department is

01:52:31.760 that almost all chinese embassies and major consulates abroad now have staff working for

01:52:37.500 the united front um and quote the united the unity of chinese at home requires the unity

01:52:43.860 of the sons and daughters of chinese abroad says the united front manual acquired by the financial

01:52:49.620 Times. The comment underlines that even though more than 80% of the estimated 50 million overseas

01:52:55.780 Chinese have taken the citizenship of the 180 countries, the CCP still regards them as potential

01:53:02.240 fifth columnists. The manual suggests a number of ways United Front staff can gain support

01:53:07.620 from overseas Chinese targets. One is making simple appeals to racial and cultural ties to

01:53:13.740 the motherland another is a more ideological call to participate in the quote great rejuvenation of

01:53:20.460 the chinese people so that's basically what the united front soon their job is to try and turn

01:53:26.600 just regular people into spies and the main way they try and do that is with students but we'll

01:53:31.280 get to that in a second one of the main ways the united front does this is they run um and you

01:53:38.860 might be aware of this the canadian chinese friendship society um and now the canadian

01:53:45.020 chinese friendship society is their group for politicians so this is explicitly chinese

01:53:54.040 government propaganda um hold on let me get it here it says in the 1980s the united front oversaw

01:54:01.900 the creation of a plethora of new groups worldwide many of which seemed to duplicate the work of the

01:54:08.140 friendship associations one such is the china association for international friendly contact

01:54:13.960 this was set up in 1984 but is not in fact a duplicate organization

01:54:18.320 it says one of the united front's most blatant and least successful operations has been the

01:54:24.660 financing of confucius institutes in schools colleges and universities in canada the united

01:54:30.880 states australia and elsewhere around the world although the confucius institute program ostensibly

01:54:37.000 comes under the quasi-governmental

01:54:39.000 Office of Chinese Language

01:54:40.820 Cultural International.

01:54:43.760 In 2009,

01:54:45.180 the Sisi propaganda chief

01:54:46.900 described the institutes as an important

01:54:48.820 part of China's overseas

01:54:50.820 propaganda setup. So if you're in a school

01:54:53.200 and you see a Confucius

01:54:55.220 Institute, that is

01:54:57.040 literally just a Chinese Communist

01:54:58.880 Party outpost. And there's a part in the

01:55:00.940 book that says that

01:55:01.840 they actually had to choose the name Confucius

01:55:05.280 because they were trying to call it the

01:55:07.300 Mao Institute

01:55:08.060 but they couldn't get people on board with Mao

01:55:11.060 they were weirded out that no one liked Mao

01:55:12.920 so they just picked Confucius because they said

01:55:14.880 well that's kind of vaguely Chinese

01:55:17.080 but it's essentially

01:55:19.400 like under it's using

01:55:21.300 Confucius as a mask

01:55:22.860 for just what they want which is like

01:55:25.280 Chairman Mao I just thought that was kind of an amusing

01:55:27.360 aside

01:55:27.780 it says the United Front has nine departments

01:55:31.280 monitoring all non-communist

01:55:33.220 parties in China

01:55:34.200 monitoring all minorities in china it's got the overseas liaison bureau which is the most relevant

01:55:41.220 to canada which is to find all the spies um the fourth fifth and sixth departments for training

01:55:47.280 people to deal with those left behind by the communist reforms and intellectuals um and then

01:55:54.180 one that deals specifically with tibet and one that deals with the rising middle class and one

01:56:00.040 that deals with northern china so this entire organization has like different departments

01:56:03.640 to deal with these problem areas i like that one that they got one department for and this is kind

01:56:09.800 of what you were talking about before about how there's all these sort of populist revolutions

01:56:13.300 there they have a department to deal with all these villages that hate communism because they

01:56:19.980 need and they need to treat them like dissidents so they you have to realize that they probably

01:56:24.200 treat huge swathes of china itself like dissidents because they're like you've fucked us over for so

01:56:30.620 long right so just for context the confucius institute so when this was written they were in

01:56:37.100 12 universities in canada and 35 high schools and they operate under the guise of cultural

01:56:44.800 exchange and there's other cultural exchange groups in universities and colleges so it's

01:56:50.000 it kind of fits in there's uh the goeth ins i'm gonna get in such trouble for mispronouncing

01:56:55.500 this do you know how to pronounce this it's the german g-o-e-t-h-e is it goeth it's goat see

01:57:03.920 goat see the goat see institute amazing it's like the goat see institute but while there's other

01:57:13.360 like legitimate cultural exchange ones this one is different it's the united front it's a front

01:57:19.440 for the united front um and of course this kind of snowballs over time because in the book he

01:57:27.240 mentions how universities favor foreign students because of uh and oh they favor foreign students

01:57:33.440 over native students due to money being pumped in because you have to remember the chinese

01:57:39.120 government sees placement of chinese people in canadian universities and colleges as beneficial

01:57:45.340 so the canadian government kind of knows this and the schools know this too they know that

01:57:51.000 not only are these students coming and they're bringing all this money doesn't matter how they

01:57:55.240 got this money but they're paying tuitions they're pumping money and so they see chinese students

01:58:01.240 as a cash cow essentially and they don't really care why they're coming here that's the

01:58:08.700 subversive part and what's even more interesting is in china they have high schools

01:58:16.520 created specifically for canadian accreditation they're called maple leaf schools

01:58:22.560 um i didn't know that that just seemed quintessential again i love how chinese

01:58:28.540 people name things they have i remember um because the maple leaf schools i've seen but

01:58:34.520 i've even seen like there's in the mtr which is the subway in hong kong and i'm sure this is worth

01:58:39.300 worse in china they have like targeted ads for specific real estate brokerages for specific

01:58:46.860 neighborhoods in vancouver and toronto they're like everybody everybody come down this saturday

01:58:52.460 because we're selling real estate on you know in university avenue in toronto you cut out like

01:58:57.900 i can't hear you right now you're losing me hello yeah sorry you cut off there a little bit okay

01:59:02.800 okay all right no it's just it's just wild like that they really they focus on all of these

01:59:08.060 international cities like they want to build enclaves and it's very open yeah just here's a

01:59:12.940 part here for many chinese the first step on the ladder is getting their child into one of the

01:59:18.100 canadian high schools that have sprung up in china since 1995 in that year sherman jen an immigrant

01:59:24.840 from mainland china who made a fortune in hong kong's textile industry opened the first of his

01:59:29.880 maple leaf international schools in the northeastern chinese port city of dalian the mayor

01:59:36.840 by 2016 the ontario ministry of education had authorized 21 private schools in china

01:59:45.420 to grant credits towards ontario secondary school diplomas in january 2018 global affairs canada

01:59:52.160 listed 82 primary and secondary schools across china that had arrangements with various provinces

01:59:58.380 across canada to follow their curricula and give credits towards diplomas and then once you realize

02:00:03.940 that yeah the way they do their grading is different there isn't it the way it's totally

02:00:10.400 it's totally fraudulent like they'll they'll walk kids through and just let them like and it's

02:00:15.500 anyways i won't get into it but like it's it's for you the one thing the blind spot is to think

02:00:20.400 that the chinese people operate like we do like to them a test is just repeat shit off of a board

02:00:27.380 keep doing it wrong until you get it right and now you've got it right like that's yeah it's

02:00:32.160 explicitly made to fast track people to canada that's all it is and then you learn too late and

02:00:38.700 then you're not allowed to criticize them when it turns out they don't know anything right um

02:00:42.260 now that's sort of the school overview of how what's going on um but there's some interesting

02:00:50.260 stuff in here as well uh going back to uh the politics he mentions that i'm just going to read

02:00:57.100 this part because i love this this is actually how the chinese government built a relationship

02:01:04.860 with canada and exploited canada's really kind of silly nationalism so it was also in this period

02:01:13.180 of the korean war and the years immediately after that canada's relationship with the united states

02:01:19.260 began to play an influential part in the story of the push and pull of canada's relations with china

02:01:26.000 For the CCP and its agents, these years provided a masterclass on the subtleties of Canadians' complex feelings for the United States.

02:01:36.360 An admiration, affection, jealousy, and pervasive sense of moral superiority that can spill over into disdain.

02:01:44.520 The CCP learned in this period that anti-Americanism in Canada could be a useful tool that is easily aroused and fairly simple to manipulate.

02:01:53.360 this played out in the broader context of the start of the cold war and fears in the united

02:01:58.820 states of communist subversion in government and other institutions so basically what they're

02:02:03.960 saying is the chinese government learned that it could play canada like a fucking fiddle by by

02:02:09.860 saying oh if you make deals and i'm kind of spoiling the end here but it's like if you make

02:02:15.120 trade deals with us you can be a big shot compared to america so it played canadian ego against

02:02:22.760 america to essentially create create trade relationships with china when no one else would

02:02:29.140 and the story here is that while america was ringing the bell of about communist subversion

02:02:36.380 canada was the only country maybe not the only but like the number one country that was pursuing

02:02:43.560 an aggressive trade relationship with china almost to like get america or you know just to

02:02:50.620 get one over on america and and this pissed america off to no end this really and there's

02:02:56.920 many times where america's like what the fuck are you doing and can's like no we're this is

02:03:01.340 important for our sovereignty and if i don't get to it later i probably will um unless i get too

02:03:08.680 distracted but uh the number one guy who's responsible for starting this pierre elliott

02:03:15.020 trudeau hey who could have guessed that'll be a trend you see later so um like for example uh the

02:03:23.420 canadian agricultural minister was instrumental in spearheading a plan to loan china money to buy

02:03:30.480 canadian wheat uh which started this big big trade relationship basically lending money to china to

02:03:36.380 buy our stuff um and that starts our trade relationship with china and begins canadian

02:03:42.280 advocacy for chinese business partnerships much to the outrage of america canada at this time is

02:03:49.040 pursuing its own relationship with china um pierre trudeau uh i'm just gonna read it here

02:03:56.180 he says trudeau came to office as the first canadian prime minister with some experience

02:04:02.540 traveling in china and he was committed to diplomatic relations with beijing for trudeau

02:04:07.900 it made no sense to pretend that

02:04:09.880 Xi'an Quesheq and the Kuomintang

02:04:12.380 exile to Taiwan were the real

02:04:13.980 government in China. Equally important

02:04:16.000 to him, though, was the opportunity to

02:04:17.960 demonstrate that the lackluster Pearson

02:04:20.080 days were over and revolution

02:04:22.100 was in the air. Trudeau saw

02:04:23.960 an advantage in reinforcing that

02:04:26.100 image by taking a purposeful swipe

02:04:28.180 at Washington and defying

02:04:30.160 the threats from successive

02:04:31.900 American administrations of retaliation

02:04:34.540 if Ottawa recognized

02:04:36.320 the people's republic of china because at this time there was some you know controversy about

02:04:41.260 you know should you recognize this government in exile or the current uh chinese government

02:04:45.680 um so that like trudeau came to office with a chip on his shoulder trying to like establish

02:04:52.760 take it like one of the only countries to take a stand by saying we recognize the current chinese

02:04:59.600 government and they were one of the first countries to say not only do we recognize and

02:05:04.140 validate this government we are going to establish we're going to loan you money to buy our shit

02:05:08.640 um so then one important visit was like trudeau actually went to go meet mao zedong again not a

02:05:17.340 lot of world leaders went to go meet chairman mao um an important product of the trudeau visit was

02:05:23.980 an agreement for an exchange of university students between canada and china this remains

02:05:30.180 an essential element in the relationship between the two countries the vast majority of the chinese

02:05:35.300 students who come to canada do so wishing to advance their scholarship and ability to contribute

02:05:41.540 to society most of those who take advantage of the route to canadian citizenship yeah basically

02:05:47.300 he's spending a few sentences saying most chinese students are good they says but the movement of

02:05:51.860 chinese students to canada now running at about 120 000 a year is also a major channel for

02:05:58.980 infiltration into canada by the ccp's intelligence agencies and the united front so basically what

02:06:04.980 we know now as the student exchange program was created specifically by pierre elliot trudeau

02:06:12.580 and carried on by his son justin trudeau ostensibly his son yeah good point

02:06:21.140 um it furthermore just to add a bit more to that just if this wasn't clear enough

02:06:28.980 Sorry, it says here, former Beijing diplomat Chen Wenzhou, in his paper to the 2010 conference in Shanghai on China-Canada relations, said the Canadian formula drew global attention.

02:06:43.100 He says, quote, that had a huge influence on China's relation with the rest of the world.

02:06:49.120 Acceptance by the People's Republic of China of Canada's simple phrase.

02:06:52.860 basically went

02:06:56.420 what he's trying to say here is that

02:06:59.280 by Canada

02:07:01.420 being like the first country to recognize

02:07:03.340 China that gave them credibility

02:07:05.260 on the world stage and

02:07:07.180 he establishes later in the book what's ironic

02:07:09.380 now is that China doesn't really give a shit about

02:07:11.320 Canada. China

02:07:12.860 sees Canada as almost

02:07:15.300 subservient at this point

02:07:16.860 and whereas the

02:07:19.180 trade relationship might have once been beneficial

02:07:21.440 it's pretty much one way at this point there's also a note in here um that there's uh this thing

02:07:29.060 called the why she list the why she list is the what they call the method of recruiting non-ethnic

02:07:36.620 chinese spies um and he says like like the ccp the goal is to blunt the revolutionary image of

02:07:43.180 china abroad so china's got an image of being a bunch of fucking communists and one of their

02:07:48.820 primary motivations is to change that image so the why she list is all basically all like the

02:07:56.240 white guys they can bring on to launder their image and he makes a point of saying that if

02:08:02.100 someone if you see someone called a quote friend to china that is literally a job description

02:08:09.540 that was created by the chinese communist government that if you are officially designated

02:08:15.200 a friend to china so if you see like an investment banker a politician they call a friend to china

02:08:21.500 that means they're they're owned by the ccp he makes a point that says that's that's kind of

02:08:26.920 broadcast by china but not a lot of westerners really pick up on that or if they do they try

02:08:31.640 and ignore it so keep an eye out for people who are called a friend to china and there's a point

02:08:39.040 here where he says um as hong kong was handed back over to china there was a rush of hong kongers

02:08:46.380 flooding into canada and brian mulrooney a canadian politician who i remember from my youth

02:08:52.140 he founded what was called the immigrant investor program to attract these people you want all that

02:08:57.920 money coming out of hong kong um but they could prove that around a third of them were either

02:09:03.760 fraudulent or outright criminals and this is something we're going to talk about in the next

02:09:07.500 episode when we talk about the triads and their infiltration into canada um but what's interesting

02:09:13.520 though is that people will hear that and say oh my of course most of them are criminals

02:09:17.140 the problem was almost all of the rest were retirees so what happened was when he was trying

02:09:25.420 to attract all these investors he attracted a bunch of retired chinese people who rather than

02:09:30.540 investing their funds actually tended to borrow more money from canadian institutions so they

02:09:37.220 actually just a complete net net negative on the canadian and that persists to this day and that's

02:09:44.900 something you see a lot like there's not actually a lot of business investors it's like old people

02:09:48.980 coming over with their money and there's kind of this cope that we do now which is that like oh

02:09:54.500 well they spend their money here it's like yeah but they're taking more money out from public services

02:09:59.620 this is one of the things i tend to to fight with the the big brain boys about the the the chart

02:10:06.100 race guys is like something is great for gdp but horrible for the economy especially from

02:10:13.220 like an industrial or like a labor standpoint and the chinese immigration and chinese investment is

02:10:18.380 the perfect example of that it's the same as indian immigration like on on on terms of gdp

02:10:23.900 yes it's massively boosting it but it's also completely gutting our industry it's gutting

02:10:29.020 our economy in the long run our ability to actually produce anything our ability to have

02:10:33.460 a stable currency is destroyed by these fucking people being here and pulling all of their dumb

02:10:38.080 fraudulent bullshit so yeah there's a part here i'm just going to read a bit of this there's a lot

02:10:42.440 i want to describe here but it says canada's unfocused and blithely generous approach to the

02:10:49.360 student exchange program inevitably led to the whole thing getting out of hand very quickly

02:10:54.740 the chinese swiftly realized that they were on to a good thing and that the canadians had no real

02:11:00.400 process in place to monitor or regulate what was happening a bureaucracy set up under the council

02:11:06.780 of ministers of education of canada was meant to oversee the placement of the chinese students

02:11:11.520 and academics but says the idrc report the system came under increasing strain as a growing number

02:11:18.460 of potential visiting scholars clearly indicated their canadian institutional preferences

02:11:23.640 um the canadians were getting a crash course in guanxi you ever hear this guanxi g-u-a-n-x-i

02:11:33.620 guanxi yeah yeah yeah i love guanxi i mean i hate it but it's such a hilarious system give me

02:11:38.960 the the skinny on this what's that it's formalized formalized corruption it's essentially it's it's a

02:11:46.080 It's a system of corruption.

02:11:50.140 How do I describe this?

02:11:51.600 You know, sometimes, okay, the other day, I helped my dad's friend move a bunch of stuff.

02:11:56.920 And without, he didn't tell me he was going to pay me anything.

02:12:00.440 And I didn't expect to get anything.

02:12:02.220 But he did give me a gift as a thank you, even though I wasn't paid.

02:12:05.160 So you could say there was a quid pro quo that I got a gift and in return for the gift, I helped him move the shit.

02:12:12.060 That's not actually what happened, though, because I didn't know that was going to happen.

02:12:14.640 They formalized it.

02:12:16.080 So in China, with Guangxi, you give gifts, and if you receive a gift, you are now obligated to do something.

02:12:23.180 So you control people with gifts, and also you can't get things that, for example, if you want to get a fucking, not a driver's license, if you want to get a business permit in a given town, you have to know all the people who you have to buy lunch and dinner for and congratulate their children and, like, get them tickets to the ballgame or whatever in order to get the license.

02:12:45.620 and everybody knows this and in some cases it's even fucking written down that's how open they

02:12:52.280 are about it it's it permeates their whole culture yeah there's a part here i'm just going to read

02:12:56.780 that kind of backs that up it says the canadians were getting a crash course in guanxi the essential

02:13:02.140 chinese survival tool of using every available connection to game the system the idrc report

02:13:08.520 says by that by 1980 the situation had become so chaotic as most canadian universities were

02:13:14.220 unprepared for these diverse chinese initiatives that lacked a coordinated approach to academic

02:13:19.580 relations as a result no one in the universities or in the responsible government departments had

02:13:24.520 any clear idea of how many chinese researchers were in canada which university departments they

02:13:30.220 were attached to or what they were doing so basically it's like they were ill-equipped to

02:13:36.080 deal with this like chinese way of doing things of like helping out each other specifically

02:13:41.160 in like this entire almost parallel relationship network he's got a part here in chapter seven

02:13:47.860 i thought it was kind of interesting i don't know if it's true maybe you can tell me this

02:13:50.840 bullshit but it said much of the chinese family and social culture has been shaped by the terrible

02:13:57.280 truth that in the 5 000 year history of the nation is not produced a government the people

02:14:03.100 could trust chinese people have therefore developed an intricate network of relationships

02:14:07.520 starting with family bonds to protect themselves

02:14:10.220 from the depredations of those in power.

02:14:13.240 Beyond the family, the network extends into clans

02:14:15.960 and associations of people with the same family name.

02:14:18.980 This is simplified somewhat by the assertion

02:14:21.300 that there are only the, quote,

02:14:23.780 old hundred names in China.

02:14:26.200 Then there's the guanxi, often translated as connections.

02:14:29.180 And he's basically describing that, you know,

02:14:30.500 if you step off the plane in Canada,

02:14:33.720 sometimes there's entire clubs set up

02:14:36.740 just to service people with your last name.

02:14:39.760 Yeah, not sometimes, like always.

02:14:41.560 Like it's, go to Markham in southern Ontario

02:14:44.300 and you'll see how this works.

02:14:46.400 Yeah.

02:14:47.740 Three Scarborough and Markham addresses

02:14:49.900 are on a list of so-called police stations

02:14:52.240 said to be organized by the Chinese government.

02:14:54.580 Under this kind of practice,

02:14:57.200 China violated other countries' sovereignty.

02:15:03.160 A Spain-based non-governmental organization

02:15:05.540 outlines at least 54 of them around the world,

02:15:08.940 claiming there are also intimidation tactics being used.

02:15:11.880 The Chinese authorities use this kind of overseas service stations

02:15:18.100 to try to get their targets, so-called suspects, to return to China.

02:15:26.340 The addresses are listed on a website registered in China in 2014.

02:15:31.180 Yeah, and that seems like such an alien concept to Westerners,

02:15:34.500 but imagine like you understand like you step off the plane in a foreign nation you don't know

02:15:39.280 where to go do you go to a hotel do you hail a cab it's like go to the building with your last

02:15:44.080 name on it and here's 25 people and their job is to help you and give you free money and fight like

02:15:49.680 you don't even need to fucking think about it so that's how i don't want to say easy but that's how

02:15:54.780 like they go in knowing this it's not a scary thing for a lot of these these uh old families

02:16:00.360 But the other thing is, you have to understand, it is a quid pro quo. It's like a hive mind. So you do get all of those benefits, but you also are expected to give those benefits to all of the other guys who come in. And remember, this is a government-sanctioned system.

02:16:15.220 So in this way, it's not just that SOEs are controlled by the Chinese state.

02:16:20.440 And like you mentioned earlier, citizen spies, any Chinese national in Canada could at any moment, even if they're not a spy now, tomorrow they could be.

02:16:30.640 Because the guy who approaches them isn't a faceless bureaucrat.

02:16:33.640 It's your cousin from back home who says, my kid can't get into university unless I do a favor.

02:16:40.300 and the favor that they want is for you to go and fucking steal plans in mississauga at some

02:16:46.720 factory like that and this is that's just straight up how it works yeah and just to wrap it up here

02:16:53.320 just to show people the so we've talked about how the chinese government is waging a war with its

02:16:59.760 five poisonous groups the falun gong the taiwanese and all that things that canadians don't care

02:17:04.440 about we have them you know buying up real estate um and he makes a note in the book that

02:17:11.560 one of the things the united from boasts about when they talk about how they can influence uh

02:17:18.200 mayoral candidacy in toronto how do you do that uh it's actually really fucking easy

02:17:25.000 and it involves buying up real estate because people think there's buying up real estate as

02:17:30.220 an investment it's like no you buy up real estate so you can put people in those houses so those

02:17:36.260 people can vote or you've got a say in a in in something in the community you have a place in

02:17:44.400 the community and then the chinese government can now have a say in municipal politics now the

02:17:51.900 chinese government can run candidates maybe not for prime minister maybe not even a mayor but some

02:17:58.400 municipal guy some some you know board board of director you know someone on an education someone

02:18:05.360 at the head of some group in a municipal area now the chinese government has bought its way

02:18:11.120 into canadian politics and if you have a network of that then you can elect an mp and if you do

02:18:17.740 enough of that then you can elect justin trudeau which is literally what happened let me just say

02:18:24.440 this and we're going to end soon but there is no question in my mind when we get to the end of this

02:18:31.220 there's zero doubt in my mind that justin trudeau became prime minister because of the chinese

02:18:39.480 communist party absolutely intelligence sources allege that a sitting liberal member of parliament

02:18:45.760 is a winning affiliate of the chinese government's attempts to interfere in canadian elections it's

02:18:51.600 the latest bombshell in a series of top secret leaks renewing concerns over interference in

02:18:56.620 Canada's democracy and elections in 2019 and 2021. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says foreign

02:19:02.720 interference is a real threat but dismissed some of the criticisms as partisan. He also called the

02:19:08.340 intelligence leaks inaccurate. Foreign countries are trying to undermine people's confidence in

02:19:15.560 our democracies and destabilize those democracies and when we lean in on partisanship around this

02:19:23.800 we're actually helping them in doing the work of sowing confusion and mistrust

02:19:29.180 there is actually there's that's not just like a crazy white right-wing conspiracy theory his

02:19:34.240 connections the first of the liberal party's connections to these friendship organizations

02:19:39.660 the flow of money from the ccb into the liberal party into mps within his inner circle like

02:19:45.460 There is no fucking way that Justin Trudeau gets where he is without being a puppet of the Chinese Communist Party.

02:19:53.120 That's full stop. That is what it is.

02:19:55.800 It was exactly the result Beijing wanted.

02:19:59.280 You are sending us back to work.

02:20:01.660 At least according to a Globe and Mail report.

02:20:04.600 It cited top secret CSIS documents detailing Beijing's sophisticated strategy to influence the 2021 election.

02:20:13.280 According to the report, China targeted specific conservative candidates in hopes of a liberal minority government.

02:20:20.080 Justin Trudeau knew about this interference.

02:20:23.160 The opposition accuses the prime minister of covering it up.

02:20:26.600 He is perfectly happy to let a foreign authoritarian government interfere in our elections as long as they're helping him.

02:20:34.500 and the liberal party generally the conservative party isn't great on this but the liberal party

02:20:40.560 through and fucking through is a magnet for chinese foreigners to become mps because you

02:20:47.480 can just fucking do that in canada you know on one hand we got like a somali guy in charge of

02:20:53.200 immigration no pay attention to how many like chinese mps in vancouver there are who've got

02:20:58.420 you know very strong very very strong opinions on taiwan you know i i mentioned this about c

02:21:05.140 bill c21 before but uh the the anti-hunting rifle amendment that was tabled was tabled by paul chang

02:21:12.020 who was previously i think he was chief of police of markham over one of the chinese writings in

02:21:17.380 toronto but if you watch the the he's also on the security council in parliament if you look at the

02:21:22.880 security council meetings he never says a fucking word but half of the amendments are coming from

02:21:27.900 him he's the one writing this shit interesting and then he's got he's got jeets and old batty

02:21:33.540 jewish women going and doing all the talking for him because he barely speaks english and he's like

02:21:38.180 70 but he's the one writing the fucking amendments yes and that got knocked down but he's still in

02:21:43.540 there every one of these meetings you can hear he they never put the camera on him but you can hear

02:21:47.820 him voting you they call his name and he casts his vote and he's writing fucking amendments in

02:21:53.460 canadian parliament yeah and that takes us to this will be the last time we talked about the

02:21:56.900 sidewinder report. The sidewinder report in 1999 explained that over 200 Canadian corporations

02:22:04.300 had fallen under the control of the Chinese Communist Party. And that's also including

02:22:09.460 real estate purchases, which gives them influence over local politicians. And even if they don't

02:22:14.860 run their own people, if you buy enough land in an area, whoever is running that writing is going

02:22:21.560 to listen to you, right? That if you're a foreign investor, you know, that's how you get even mayors

02:22:27.500 to listen to you. It says here, Sidewinder set out an alarming picture of how Chinese intelligence

02:22:32.600 services and others with close ties to the Beijing regime had managed to infiltrate and influence

02:22:38.140 large areas of Canadian corporate and public life. It said that since the 1980s, more than 200

02:22:45.080 companies had come under the influence or ownership of the ccp uh and his close associates

02:22:51.400 close associates giving them control of strategically significant canadian technology

02:22:57.640 and resources the report noted large investments to canadian banks by hong kong's premier tycoon

02:23:03.980 lee kashin um and his son richard macau casino tycoon stanley ho was the principal shareholder

02:23:13.560 in the semi-tech corporation of markham ontario a specialist in secure information systems

02:23:19.740 designed for governments national defense departments and police forces

02:23:24.780 chinese companies especially ones in hong kong had invested heavily in chinese language media

02:23:31.760 and entertainment industries in canada there's also major chinese investments in real estate

02:23:36.700 in canadian cities notably vancouver toronto parts montreal um so basically they got a big

02:23:43.360 big interest in buying up our tech companies um and you know they even uh there's chinese

02:23:50.700 entrepreneurs who infiltrated like hydro companies and stole nuclear information

02:23:56.060 um and there's this one case uh just to show you what we're dealing with here uh richard fadden

02:24:02.940 of cesis um he was a guy who was like there was all these cases of this book where there's people

02:24:09.860 in CSIS, in the RCMP

02:24:11.780 lone voices

02:24:13.340 who are ringing the alarm on this and it keeps

02:24:15.960 getting suffocated

02:24:17.040 they keep getting transferred, mysteriously

02:24:20.260 transferred or it

02:24:21.960 just never goes anywhere and you're thinking what the fuck

02:24:23.980 happened, of course it's because

02:24:25.960 the people at the very top

02:24:27.760 are friendly to the CCP

02:24:28.960 but this one guy Richard Fadden just fucking

02:24:31.940 steamrolled his way through

02:24:33.740 and he was at a Q&A

02:24:35.780 session

02:24:36.340 and he's giving a talk

02:24:39.840 and someone asked him a question and he makes a claim that he says a foreign nation had direct

02:24:46.720 control of at least two MPs and several municipalities. And he said it was he wouldn't

02:24:52.920 give any details. He just said, look, I happen to know for a fact that China owns a couple of MPs.

02:24:58.460 It is what it is. And he was accused of racism. Wow. Heather, Richard Fadden was unflappable

02:25:06.020 today as he faced MPs who demanded the CSIS director appear before them and explain what

02:25:11.600 he meant when he said some Canadian politicians are under the influence of foreign states.

02:25:17.480 Richard Fadden brushed past a crowd of tourists and into the Parliament buildings where he

02:25:21.800 would face a grilling from MPs. I start from the premise that this is not a desirable outcome.

02:25:28.260 Not desirable to be hauled before a committee in the middle of summer, but Fadden had no

02:25:32.520 intention of taking back anything he said. I would argue it is good public policy for Canadians to be

02:25:37.940 more attuned to the threats that the country faces. The circumstances in which all of this

02:25:41.960 became public is one that I regret. Last March, the national taped a speech Fadden delivered at a

02:25:48.200 Toronto dinner. There are ministers of the crown. It was there Fadden first said cabinet ministers

02:25:52.500 in two provinces were under the sway of foreign governments. Fadden told MPs he forgot he was

02:25:57.820 being taped nonetheless a few months later in a long scheduled interview fadden repeated the

02:26:03.180 remarks in the case of a couple of cabinet ministers were in the process of discussing

02:26:07.100 with the center how we're going to inform those provinces and that's that's what happens this

02:26:14.420 that's been happening for years trying and make and this happened just recently there's people

02:26:19.100 saying like i think a few of these chinese politicians have ties to china that's like

02:26:24.080 saying that a jews got ties to israel it's a thing that you wouldn't think you'd get in trouble for

02:26:29.100 but they do right it's like how dare you a guy and a lot of these guys are literally chinese

02:26:35.140 immigrants it's not like they're like third generation they were born here it's like no

02:26:39.400 they got here 20 years ago from china and then just got into quote unquote business and now

02:26:48.080 they're an mp and now they're thinking it's how dare you say that i how dare you think i i'm side

02:26:55.140 on strong china you know um anyway i guess we can end there there's some other there's some other

02:27:03.560 cases like and now once you hear this now it makes sense why justin trudeau comes out on the side of

02:27:10.700 Huawei, that's how you pronounce it, right?

02:27:12.880 That telecom company, Huawei?

02:27:15.460 Huawei.

02:27:17.220 Yeah.

02:27:18.520 You know, not only does Trudeau allow Huawei,

02:27:23.880 but we pretty much pay Huawei to be here.

02:27:27.200 We paid for the infrastructure.

02:27:29.780 Your tax dollars paid for the telecommunications infrastructure

02:27:32.640 to establish Huawei here.

02:27:34.620 So we paid for the Chinese telecommunications company

02:27:39.880 that of course spies on us right and again this and people they get this is fucking blind spot if

02:27:46.840 there's one thing for people to take home when you hear huawei and it's a quote-unquote chinese

02:27:51.640 technology company that's not the same thing as saying blackberry is a canadian technology company

02:27:56.560 it's more like saying the ministry of natural resources like it is literally top to bottom

02:28:03.340 openly owned and controlled by the chinese communist party that's the way that their

02:28:08.840 corporate structure works it's not a secret or a mystery just people aren't aware of it so when

02:28:12.860 you hear huawei or even alibaba and jack mon like he's a billionaire no he doesn't own any of it

02:28:17.620 it's they don't have fucking property in the same sense that we do it's a totally different

02:28:21.240 paradigm right huawei is a government entity it is a state-owned enterprise yeah there's this case

02:28:28.220 also of um uh stephen harper blocked the purchase of a canadian tech company i believe it was called

02:28:36.280 onet um this would have been many many years ago um and and he worked this onet tech company

02:28:43.640 worked very very close with csis and the five eyes organizations to help develop a lot of their

02:28:50.680 sensitive technology because canada is actually um a lot of people don't know this it's a real hub

02:28:56.760 for technology development it has been for quite some time um and so they're going to take this

02:29:01.720 this tech company that was creating tech for these five eyes you know intelligence things

02:29:07.000 and sell it to china stephen harper former prime minister of canada blocked it um the moment

02:29:15.640 trudeau comes in um he reviews the deal and he allows it to go through

02:29:23.000 uh he he uh he then approves the sale of norsat international so like the this is the case of

02:29:30.040 Trudeau like people advised against the sale of this organization Trudeau gets here one of the

02:29:35.360 first things he does is he approves this sale that was being blocked of a a tech company that

02:29:41.060 develops highly highly sensitive technology for national security because he comes in he's all

02:29:49.000 Trudeau is trying to do and he's made this his mandate is pursue an aggressive trade relationship

02:29:54.860 with china so it's things like we've outlined a few key points here where trudeau justin trudeau

02:30:02.360 is just opening the fucking floodgates to china the day he fucking arrives isn't that weird

02:30:09.960 yeah isn't it fucking and now it's like a foregone conclusion and the point of this book is like

02:30:14.980 the fucking the game's over it's done the china's like what would it take to reverse course on this

02:30:22.600 i don't fucking know at this point frankly like it's a foregone conclusion that the chinese

02:30:28.560 government owns half of vancouver it owns like the real everyone there's new stories in liberal

02:30:35.620 newspapers talking about how our real estate market hangs on the thread connected to the

02:30:41.140 finger of the chinese fucking communist party you want to talk about real estate prices going up it's

02:30:46.180 because of chinese money flooding in and buying real estate like there's no fucking escaping this

02:30:51.900 like i don't know how you fix this but just to let people know like we'll get to this more next

02:30:57.900 episode but it's strictly in the government like we are pretty subservient to china at this point

02:31:05.340 yes anyway i know we gotta get going now i just wanted to any closing thoughts on that

02:31:11.260 fuck china fuck okay good point well thought all right i'll let you go i'll talk to you later

02:31:20.300 No worries.

02:31:20.740 See you, man.

02:31:36.760 All right.

02:31:37.600 I'm very, very pleased to bring everyone J.F.

02:31:41.980 Garepi.

02:31:42.560 Now, this is a gentleman that I've been watching for many, many years, actually.

02:31:46.480 maybe even before the um you know the warski days i'm trying to think about how long i've been i've

02:31:52.540 been watching this uh but for those who don't know jf garepi fellow canadian uh if quebecers

02:31:59.040 count themselves as canadians uh host of jfg tonight available on odyssey every day uh he's

02:32:06.720 on twitter at jf garepi an author of what we're going to be talking about primarily today of the

02:32:13.980 book, The Revolutionary Phenotype, which we have reviewed on our previous episodes. So if people

02:32:19.700 want a primer for The Revolutionary Phenotype, I think I did a decent enough job. But I am not

02:32:27.020 expert on biology in any sense or evolutionary biology, although we find a deep interest in it

02:32:32.840 on the show. So hopefully I didn't fucking butcher it. And for people who want to know more, go to

02:32:38.460 at jfg.world. You can find the book there. You can find all kinds of stuff there. So

02:32:43.700 JF, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with me today.

02:32:47.920 It's a pleasure to be here.

02:32:50.160 All right. So we're going to get right into it because I still have the book fresh in my mind.

02:32:54.200 Like I said, we discussed it last week and we talked a lot about sort of the general frame

02:32:59.860 of the RNA versus DNA. There's some topics that we didn't get into that deep. We didn't really

02:33:06.100 get into the trickster printers that much. And I've been listening to a few of your other interviews

02:33:10.480 where you talked about that. And I think I might've missed probably the most interesting part

02:33:15.520 of it by not going into like the trickster printers, but we'll get to that in a second.

02:33:19.240 And I really wanted to kind of set up how you approach this book. And again, for people who

02:33:26.240 don't know, listen to our clip first, um, and then listen to this, but you will probably need

02:33:30.960 to go over some of the basics again. But I think the best place to start is, as a scientist,

02:33:38.300 as a serious person, can you give us maybe a brief history of what caused you to approach

02:33:43.600 this idea specifically? What triggered it? And things in and around, I guess, Richard Dawkins

02:33:50.140 is the selfish gene. Yeah, well, I've been introduced to the selfish gene by Richard

02:33:57.580 Dawkins when I was very young. I just turned out on a French version of the book in my library.

02:34:04.000 I read it and it strikes me, oh my God, this explains everything. And so I've been since

02:34:12.020 nine to 11 years old, I've been influenced by Dawkins and growing up into a biologist

02:34:18.680 was mainly because I thought Dawkins has captured here the ensemble of the explanations to explain

02:34:27.500 the entire biological world which to me includes humans and human societies so it kind of became

02:34:35.540 a pillar of my thought and something that was inviolable the selfish gene is just correct it's

02:34:42.400 deeply correct so correct that i mean it attracts a lot of critique but really they have nothing on

02:34:49.380 it so i'm faced since i'm very young with okay everything around us perhaps even the physical

02:34:55.680 world is explained better by the theory of natural selection than anything else.

02:35:03.400 You know, sociology fails, economics fails, political science fails at even understanding

02:35:09.700 their own ideology.

02:35:11.620 And here you have a layout that's developed by Dawkins for beavers and salamanders, and

02:35:18.980 yet it explains humanity better than any of these supposedly human sciences.

02:35:24.160 So that is how I approached biology at first. But then as I grew into an adult, and eventually I obtained my PhD in neuroscience, I started doing research on groups of monkeys in North Carolina in the US at Duke.

02:35:41.800 and I'm like unsatisfied by just a couple of aspects of the selfish gene and the views that

02:35:50.420 have emerged from it, including mimetics. This whole idea of replicators rule the world

02:35:56.940 is correct in my view, but there's a couple of unanswered questions around mimetics and there's

02:36:04.260 a couple of things that don't seem to fit and it's pretty much the feeling of all biologists back

02:36:09.240 then. So I'm not alone in my camp. Pretty much everyone, except those who have fully and

02:36:16.460 enthusiastically joined the mimetic side of things, pretty much everyone believes that

02:36:22.420 mimetics is crap. It's a theory that is unfit. There's something wrong about this explanation

02:36:28.380 of human culture, that it's replicators in our brains rather than replicators in our

02:36:34.180 sexual organs, that it's like DNA, but it's not really DNA, and it's unphysical, and it floats

02:36:41.080 out there in the world, and it enters our brain. That just doesn't work. But the attacks that have

02:36:48.700 been made against mimetics also didn't work. So I was looking for what is the deep reason

02:36:55.140 why ultimately, even if the ideas in our brain can be seen as copying themselves, can be seen

02:37:02.920 as, okay, yeah, it does some of the things that DNA does.

02:37:06.880 It does have two copies of it.

02:37:08.860 When a parent teaches a child,

02:37:11.140 there's a copying process involved.

02:37:13.540 But why is it wrong to see them evolutionarily,

02:37:16.980 these ideas?

02:37:18.640 And I never thought that in iterating

02:37:22.720 that thought process to see where is it wrong,

02:37:25.060 where is it wrong, where is it wrong.

02:37:27.160 I would go back four billion years into the past

02:37:30.040 and that ultimately the reason,

02:37:31.580 the real reason why mimetics is wrong would be found 4 billion years ago in the interaction

02:37:38.660 between RNA and DNA at the emergence of life on earth. And I realized eventually that the

02:37:45.900 ideological structure that I've developed was giving us answers to questions I didn't

02:37:52.420 even wonder about as I started this experiment in my head. So that's how a revolutionary

02:37:59.300 every phenotype visible. To ask you one question, because, you know, on the show, and I guess in my

02:38:04.960 personal life, you know, we've taken an interest in, you know, theoretical physics and cosmology

02:38:10.720 and psychology and things like that, but we've never really delved into the unique community

02:38:16.480 of biology. And I was wondering, because it seems that in theoretical physics, they're always

02:38:21.760 looking for a game breaking idea. They're always looking for it to be disruptive. But I was curious

02:38:27.500 about the idea that you arrived at, the revolutionary phenotype. In biology, is there

02:38:33.560 still this hunger for disruptive, crazy ideas? Do people want to break Dawkins' idea? Or did you

02:38:41.060 find that there's not really a lot of serious, innovative ideas coming out of biology?

02:38:48.580 Well, I think that there's a problem in that we have old school forms of biology,

02:38:55.840 which are very much attached to a theory that is deeply right.

02:39:02.660 It's very easy to delude yourself into thinking that biology is complete.

02:39:08.700 And when a science is complete, you don't expect ever to encounter some new thinking

02:39:15.000 that will revert what you think.

02:39:18.540 And I think it's 99.9% right.

02:39:21.320 I think that we have biology completed at 99.9% before the revolutionary phenotype.

02:39:29.400 I consider that the revolutionary phenotype addresses the two great missing questions,

02:39:35.060 which is, what is the relationship between embedded replicators, between replicators

02:39:41.360 that interact between one another?

02:39:44.100 And can they outcompete one another?

02:39:46.500 And when does that happen?

02:39:47.680 And why does that happen?

02:39:48.860 That is the first question, and it gives an answer that is very deep on the genesis of genetic codes. Why do we have layers in our genetic code? That is the ultimate answer that my book gives.

02:40:01.660 And then the question of sex also is the second thing that I consider was not fully kept. We hadn't done all of the thinking on exactly how does sexual selection emerge. And my book completes the two. And in that sense, yeah, I think it's an intuition that people have that biology is complete, and it's not entirely incorrect.

02:40:25.160 Correct. There's two things I want to ask you based on that. And the second one is going to be

02:40:30.000 perhaps giving a brief overview of sort of the RNA world hypothesis or RNA world theory rather.

02:40:37.140 But before I do, before I forget, if we could circle back to Richard Dawkins and the selfish

02:40:44.120 gene, and you had talked about something in your various interviews that I've seen over time

02:40:49.180 about, and you kind of just mentioned it there, where the selfish gene maybe overreaches or goes

02:40:54.760 wrong or people get too excited about the idea of a meme and i'm guilty of that as anyone you know

02:41:00.900 when i first read the selfishly and when i think back to it i think of this idea of the meme like

02:41:05.620 the meme is it's an ideas can be organisms they could spread like viruses and they replicate and

02:41:11.340 i think you have said in the past that people put a bit too much weight on that and that you

02:41:17.000 had described um some you know evolutions in that way where people got too crazy with it and thought

02:41:22.920 oh, technology itself is like the ultimate replicator.

02:41:26.520 Did you want to maybe explain a bit about

02:41:28.440 kind of where that goes a bit too far?

02:41:31.540 Yeah, well, Richard Dawkins phrased it very conditionally.

02:41:35.480 When you read The Selfish Gene again,

02:41:38.160 you realize that Richard Dawkins knew

02:41:40.340 that something was wrong with his own ID.

02:41:43.000 And he's never really adhered to mimetics in the modern sense.

02:41:47.080 So people like Daniel Dennett, Susan Blackmore,

02:41:49.740 have went way further than Dawkins would go himself, still as of today.

02:41:55.280 So basically, Dawkins suggests, well, I've isolated the three features that make something a replicator.

02:42:04.140 So it's replication, mutation, and selection.

02:42:08.940 So he goes through a thought experiment and starts thinking,

02:42:13.520 maybe there's all sorts of other replicators around us that we just haven't noticed.

02:42:18.700 And maybe extending evolutionary theory to these things would have some explanatory power.

02:42:25.020 So what is it that replicates, mutates, and gets subject to selection?

02:42:31.700 Well, ideas in our head, they replicate.

02:42:34.560 They pass from one brain to another.

02:42:36.860 Do they mutate?

02:42:38.080 Well, a little bit.

02:42:40.000 I mean, they change.

02:42:41.060 The story that I tell you is not the exact story that someone told me yesterday.

02:42:46.100 and the game of telephone leads us to believe

02:42:49.040 that there is something like mutation happening to culture.

02:42:53.380 And is it subject to selection?

02:42:55.120 Well, certainly.

02:42:56.580 There are certain ideas that don't pass very well.

02:42:59.620 There are certain ideas that are taboo

02:43:01.380 and others are not taboo.

02:43:03.500 And therefore, human culture seems to fit

02:43:06.220 the three parameters of Dawkins.

02:43:08.900 I think that the only place where Dawkins got it wrong

02:43:12.180 is to believe that is three criteria

02:43:15.340 were final, and that all you needed was these three criteria. The revolutionary phenotype

02:43:22.340 doesn't add much to this. It's almost Darwinian. But I say that there is a lack of care. When you

02:43:29.980 start considering human culture as a replicator, at equal standing with DNA, you must start

02:43:37.840 thinking in embedded replicator systems. You must start thinking in life forms that live within

02:43:45.000 life forms and that live beside life forms. You must start thinking in terms of the DNA of the

02:43:52.060 farmer, modifying the DNA of the cow. You must start thinking in terms of the DNA of the eagle,

02:43:59.860 modifying the DNA of the mice so that the mice are more likely to go hide and seek camouflage

02:44:06.520 strategies. And when you do that thinking properly, you realize that embedded life form systems of

02:44:14.220 that kind are not subject to a competitive form of evolutionary theory, that ultimately

02:44:24.180 something in your environment must always finish by serving the genes, or it goes away.

02:44:32.120 And that is a rule I derived that Dawkins was kind of missing, although he somewhat

02:44:37.400 alluded to it.

02:44:40.260 That's very, very interesting.

02:44:41.900 And, you know, the idea that you kind of touched on there was, you know, there's this concept that, like you said, technology and memes can exist in the same level as a DNA.

02:44:53.760 And this is something that, again, perhaps I'm guilty of because we had discussed information theory at one point on the show.

02:45:00.800 And if you get an information theory, you get down to the quantum level.

02:45:03.800 You know, there's this idea that, you know, once you get small enough, what is everything?

02:45:07.660 Well, it's really just information transfer.

02:45:10.580 And we got into Norbert Weiner and his theory of cybernetics about how everything is just like information transfer, trying to fight off entropy and devising armor around itself to protect itself against entropy.

02:45:24.360 So, you know, I think there's a lot of people maybe in different fields who will start, who probably still believe that once you get down to the bottom of everything, it's just, it's just memes.

02:45:36.300 Is that something you encounter still when you talk about this stuff?

02:45:39.080 Yeah.

02:45:40.580 Yeah, you encounter a lot of people who mistake technology for a competing life form.

02:45:48.980 So that error of Dawkins, of attributing the status of a life form to basically what I consider to be a part of our body.

02:45:58.220 To me, computers have as much independence from our DNA as our fingers do,

02:46:06.000 because they are a part of our extended phenotype, which is so weird.

02:46:10.580 that Dawkins wouldn't understand this because Dawkins is the one who gave birth to the concept

02:46:15.940 of the extended phenotype. So it would seem that Dawkins failed at being enough of an extremist

02:46:22.480 on the extended phenotype and understand that, yeah, everything we do around us, even if it

02:46:29.400 replicates, it doesn't attain the status of a life form until it respects a series of rules

02:46:36.260 that I've identified in my book.

02:46:38.360 Basically, that's all my book is.

02:46:40.060 It's what kind of rules must be violated or met

02:46:44.940 so that a life form takes a direction of its own.

02:46:50.040 And current computers and AI,

02:46:52.180 you have a big discussion right now on the internet

02:46:55.060 about the new AI models like ChatGPT.

02:46:59.000 And it's so misinformed

02:47:01.140 because they don't seem to understand

02:47:03.300 that any phenotypic AI is bound to serve us in the same way our hearts and lungs serve us.

02:47:10.920 As long as it's phenotypic, as long as it doesn't fit the standard of a revolutionary phenotype,

02:47:16.720 it will not take over us. And that's what I loved so much about the book. And very early on,

02:47:22.840 and I appreciated you doing this, is you were very clear on what the revolutionary phenotype is not.

02:47:28.740 And I would imagine when you're explaining this to people, and even when I was explaining it, I found myself doing this, like falling into metaphors about robots or zombies or something like that.

02:47:42.720 It's so easy. And sometimes because you're grasping for a visual metaphor, because really, if you and we discussed, you know, the end prediction in your book and to to imagine like a post DNA world to visualize, it's as difficult to imagine a pre DNA world like it would be so mind bending.

02:48:02.720 you're grasping like, is this nanobots? What is this? But, you know, one thing I appreciated was

02:48:08.740 you explaining what this is not, you know, is this is not, you know, everyone wants to say,

02:48:13.520 oh, he's talking about AI. And really, if anyone is serious about AI, you kind of understand how

02:48:19.240 subservient it still is to human inputs. And, you know, if you think about it all the way to the

02:48:25.940 bottom, it's kind of difficult to imagine a scenario where you would have us like a Skynet

02:48:30.900 situation where it's loose and it took over the nukes it's like how like so many things would

02:48:36.880 need to go it would almost need to be designed to do that it couldn't just yeah replicate itself

02:48:41.880 right yeah and that's thinking i've done in 2018 and i thought i would correct people but people

02:48:49.560 are still committing the same mistakes in 2023 they just haven't gone through the book and they

02:48:55.740 They go on emotion and intuition.

02:48:58.500 The fact is, AI is fully shaped to our interests, you know, to the point of even adopting our taboos, to the point of not being able to discuss some subjects because they are human taboos.

02:49:12.940 That is just how subservient AI is.

02:49:15.540 Now, you're right.

02:49:16.960 You know, for a scenario of absolute destruction, you need so many things to go wrong in a row that at some point you have to look for either of two things, human intentionality or biological evolution.

02:49:31.660 And the revolutionary phenotype, my whole scenario that I present at the end, is the nightmare scenario of what if technology takes an evolutionary route?

02:49:42.180 What would it need to do? What would it need to do to free itself from us? And the path there exists. That's why we should care about it. But we shouldn't be careless about any path. We shouldn't be alarmed at anything because if you're alarmed at anything, eventually people will realize that you were wrong about your predictions and they will say, well, you've been wrong. AI has been good for us for 50 years and they're going to dismiss you.

02:50:08.300 I've been very clear since 2018.

02:50:10.640 There is only one type of AI and technology that is dangerous to humanity's survival.

02:50:17.620 It is the type that plays with human genetics.

02:50:21.500 My message is do not let people, do not let AI change the genes of people.

02:50:27.900 And what I liked about the book is that everyone's scared of AI.

02:50:33.080 There's not enough people scared of what we might call transhumanism.

02:50:37.540 And in my mind, that was the frame you had presented at the end of the book.

02:50:41.960 Like, it's not going to be some runaway AI.

02:50:43.880 It's going to be this, you know, runaway, exponentially expanding gene editing thing

02:50:51.580 we're getting into.

02:50:52.240 And why wouldn't that happen?

02:50:53.900 And so the prediction you're given might very well take hundreds of years to come to fruition,

02:50:59.260 but it is immediate.

02:51:00.880 It is something that is occurring right now.

02:51:04.120 And I'd actually never heard of it phrased like this.

02:51:07.280 like like an actual danger everyone kind of doesn't like you know transhumanism but they

02:51:12.120 don't really know why but i'm like this is probably the best case for you know and i really do because

02:51:19.240 it's not like a virus that infects you it's like by the time the revolution happens you're so far

02:51:23.900 away from what you identify as human you know like that's the scary thing to me like i was reading

02:51:30.320 this like i get it now i get why this is terrifying the revolutionary phenotype is vicious it's it's

02:51:37.160 vicious in a way that is inaccessible to most human minds. But if you are capable of thinking

02:51:44.720 intergenerationally, you realize how vicious it is. It shows up, it rewards some people of

02:51:51.180 some generations, it uses them to grow its influence into society, and eventually it

02:51:57.720 shapes us into something else, to its own interest. And the realization that not only

02:52:03.900 this is what will happen to humanity,

02:52:05.780 but that this is where we come from.

02:52:08.220 This is what happened also 4 billion years ago

02:52:10.900 when DNA took over RNA is quite the realization.

02:52:14.780 When it dawned on me, it hit hard.

02:52:18.200 It's funny.

02:52:18.920 If I had to explain to people, I'd say,

02:52:20.840 Brave New World is the midpoint of how bad this gets.

02:52:25.260 That dystopian book, it gets crazy from there.

02:52:29.400 And before we go on, I wanted to ask you,

02:52:31.620 And so the book is a couple of years old now, I believe, maybe a bit more.

02:52:37.460 I don't even know.

02:52:38.340 That's 2018.

02:52:39.780 Yeah.

02:52:40.240 So in the time since it's been published, I hadn't seen them, but I noticed there was

02:52:45.620 like a few videos of people dissecting it and trying to disprove it and debunk it.

02:52:50.240 I was wondering, in the time since it's been published, have there been any new ideas,

02:52:56.140 new innovations that have occurred to you or any significant pushback from maybe the scientific

02:53:01.920 community? No, I review all of the comments on it and everything that people have to say on it.

02:53:10.180 And I've never seen a legitimate challenge to my theory. Now, you're going to have all sorts of

02:53:16.320 people saying, I don't like the way he phrases things and I don't like this. But those are

02:53:22.380 aesthetic concerns. Ultimately, there is no challenge out there to my scientific theory

02:53:27.700 that would qualify as even, you know, on its face as philosophically valid. And on the other hand,

02:53:39.740 we have support coming from one of the greatest biologists alive, Robert Rivers, who told me an

02:53:47.160 email. Sorry, that is very important. It's an important theory and an important book,

02:53:54.340 very well treated. So we have basically an acceptance or a silence around this theory.

02:54:02.640 It's kind of shocking that in 2018, I basically told humanity how it would destroy itself.

02:54:09.240 And humanity hasn't yet responded. Well, that's the thing because the book,

02:54:14.060 um it's not written in a particularly dense way um some books like this can be written in a

02:54:19.800 difficult uh manner this one even though i was not familiar with biology that much um you know

02:54:26.800 i managed to get it um it's not the most the longest read in the world either you know people

02:54:31.520 can get through this pretty fast um so but on that note i'm thinking just to make sure everyone's on

02:54:40.180 the same page, perhaps we could establish some terms. And maybe you can kind of go off for as

02:54:48.220 long as you want on this. I will not interrupt you. I will not David Duke you. You can, on the

02:54:56.920 topic of the terminology of the queen and the cream and all these, and those terms that I think

02:55:05.340 were introduced in the book um there is someone had sent me a message like oh does this have to

02:55:11.220 do with the queen q-u-i-n-e which is a programming term of a self-replicating type of code or

02:55:18.860 something and i don't think it is but just to maybe establish the terminology um

02:55:23.620 within the resolution can we talk about what is a queen what is a cream and and all that

02:55:29.720 I didn't know about this program

02:55:32.940 Queen

02:55:33.620 yeah Q-U-I-N-E

02:55:37.340 someone just sent that to me

02:55:38.460 I didn't think it was related

02:55:39.460 but there we go

02:55:40.520 I'll check it out

02:55:41.760 but to me the inspiration of using the word Queen

02:55:45.480 well first came from Susan Blackmore

02:55:48.960 because she was naming new replicators 0.95

02:55:52.780 with new letters

02:55:53.880 so starting with Gene

02:55:55.480 and traditionally Richard Dawkins

02:55:58.500 had been giving birth to Meme,

02:56:01.260 and Susan Blackmore eventually talked of technology as teams,

02:56:07.100 I was finding it quite cringy to have all these letters

02:56:10.780 redefine what ultimately we all say are replicators.

02:56:14.360 So I said, everything that makes a copy of itself is a queen.

02:56:18.540 And it's inspired to me both by this sequence

02:56:23.060 from Dawkins to Susan Blackmore,

02:56:25.120 And also the fact that there are queens in biology.

02:56:29.500 They are the ant colony and bee queens that are the reproductive unit in an ant colony or a bee colony.

02:56:39.320 So to me, it was relevant to have the term queen point to all these things that make copies of themselves, no matter what they are, including DNA.

02:56:50.900 That is what I meant by queen.

02:56:52.860 Now, basically, I come up with first the state of evolutionary theory as I begin my investigation.

02:57:02.420 And one important principle that is never really stated clearly in the literature, but that I've come to believe is basically axiomatic evolutionary theory, is the principle of phenotypic servitude.

02:57:16.820 And you have to think a little bit a while about the different phrasings of natural selection.

02:57:24.760 Of course, most people will understand already natural selection as being this kind of race for survival and reproduction.

02:57:33.020 A bunch of genes are better at making babies or better at surviving.

02:57:37.500 They end up having more babies.

02:57:39.540 They end up in more copies.

02:57:41.620 So that's natural selection basically seen from a population standpoint.

02:57:46.820 But when people like Richard Dawkins, the solid insight that they had was to try to zoom in on the gene versus the rest of the world, on this distinction that exists between DNA and your body, and in fact, between DNA and the rest of the universe.

02:58:08.340 What is it really?

02:58:09.340 And it's the distinction between genotype and phenotype.

02:58:14.140 It's the distinction between there's one piece of you, your entire body, other than DNA,

02:58:20.620 that will not survive the next generation.

02:58:24.380 It will be eliminated.

02:58:26.420 Really, the only information from you that makes it to the next generation,

02:58:30.820 leaving aside the meme discussion for now,

02:58:33.320 the only thing that copies itself are the genes.

02:58:37.180 The genes then cause another body that looks like your body to come into existence.

02:58:42.520 But this is not a replicative process. The only thing that went through replication in this whole thing of you giving birth to a child is the DNA. The DNA is what gets replicated, and that leads to the genotype versus phenotype distinction.

02:59:00.920 that's very interesting and it reminds me of this um interview i saw this would have been on like

02:59:08.720 lex friedman's show and that i'm going to butch this because i forget the guy's name and i forget

02:59:13.540 the name of the specific theory but uh he was describing there's this type of worm they found

02:59:19.700 almost like a microscopic worm that was able to create perfect replicas of itself it actually

02:59:26.900 survived across generations by perfect replication to the point where they actually could

02:59:32.940 make damage the worm and the next version the copy of it would have that specific damage

02:59:40.880 everything carried forward and they could really play around with that and create little deviations

02:59:46.260 and the way i heard him summarize it is like you know the thing that really helps humans is

02:59:52.100 what he called the evolutionary bottleneck. He's like, the fact that a lot of what we are does

03:00:00.600 not copy, kind of goes down to the small thing and explodes out again. And it's a lot of the

03:00:06.340 stuff like you would describe this, like, you know, essentially, if you cut your arm, that cut

03:00:09.960 will not, or that trauma will not be passed on to your child. But, you know, that is almost an

03:00:17.020 evolutionary advantage that doesn't exist on some life forms and i always thought that was

03:00:22.600 kind of interesting that you know even the lower the simplicity of how we we replicate actually

03:00:29.040 saves us from just carrying all this damage forward in time absolutely and it's it's almost

03:00:35.240 therapeutic if you really uh if you have things you regret in life or you don't like how your

03:00:42.600 life turned out. Think of making babies and appreciating them growing into pure beings

03:00:49.480 as kind of the ultimate cleansing of nature. Like there will be nothing of you left at some point

03:00:56.960 other than your genes. And so no matter what suffering you go through or bad stuff you go

03:01:02.440 through, life will cleanse away. None of your injuries will show up in your children,

03:01:08.720 except if they are genetic injuries, if they are genetic modifications.

03:01:14.060 Now, there's another term, and I don't think you covered this yet.

03:01:17.200 It's a CREME, Q-R-E-M-E.

03:01:22.140 So what is that, the CREME?

03:01:24.480 Because I know at one point you were discussing sort of the quantification

03:01:28.740 of almost replication-ness.

03:01:32.240 Was that what CREME was?

03:01:33.440 Yeah.

03:01:33.480 Yeah. I'll get there, but I want to finish on the thing I initiated, which is the principle of

03:01:41.360 phenotypic servitude. So you have this strong distinction between the genes and the phenotype,

03:01:48.400 but this distinction has never been fully laid out by Dawkins. Dawkins simply said,

03:01:54.060 if you replicate, mutate, and select, you are a replicator. I claim that it's not enough,

03:02:00.640 But the way I derive the state of biology before I intervene

03:02:05.640 and before I do my little fix is think of the intergenerational change

03:02:11.840 that happens to the genotype and the phenotype.

03:02:16.000 So think about, for example, a population that has a new gene.

03:02:20.660 Say it's a population of animals that didn't have hearts.

03:02:24.340 They didn't have a circulatory system.

03:02:26.420 They were like animals in the sea without much of a blood system.

03:02:32.120 Now, suppose some genes show up.

03:02:34.200 They give a blood-like system to this creature.

03:02:38.440 Suddenly, this creature has more energy, more ability to deploy muscle work more efficiently, more oxygen, blah, blah, blah.

03:02:46.360 Everything that's needed to survive and reproduce better.

03:02:50.580 So those genes are selected for.

03:02:53.860 Those genes favor the kind of animals that have this new heart system.

03:02:59.240 And eventually, every animal on Earth has hearts and has the genes for the hearts

03:03:04.680 because it was so evolutionary advantageous.

03:03:08.180 Now, you have to look at this story and think of two parallel streams.

03:03:14.520 What's happened to the genes and what's happened to the phenotype?

03:03:18.740 Let's go through it.

03:03:20.480 The genes have mutated.

03:03:22.680 They have changed.

03:03:24.680 The genes are better for the organism.

03:03:28.520 They are leading to more reproduction for the organism and for themselves.

03:03:34.000 Now, we can also say these things about the heart.

03:03:37.520 That is about the phenotypic part of the gene expression.

03:03:41.420 We can say there are more hearts now on planet Earth.

03:03:45.960 The hearts have been better at replicating going forward.

03:03:50.000 The heart systems have found a way to dominate the planet.

03:03:54.400 And this problem, what is so different about the genotype and the phenotype?

03:04:00.960 Basically, I can do the same story that I was doing for the gene.

03:04:05.840 I can tell you about the heart.

03:04:08.120 The heart has been dominating the world.

03:04:10.160 The heart has been replicating.

03:04:12.180 The heart has been mutating.

03:04:14.420 So what the heck is so different about the genotype and the phenotype that they deserve

03:04:19.880 this very strong categorization in biology, and yet we can say the exact same thing about

03:04:26.880 both?

03:04:28.300 That is the great problem behind the principle of phenotypic servitude.

03:04:33.260 And the answer that Dawkins gave and that I would give also is there is a difference

03:04:39.880 in how selection plays out, such that selection doesn't favor phenotypes for themselves.

03:04:48.520 Basically, phenotypes vary across the world. They vary across time and across generations.

03:04:55.900 But the criteria by which they are judged every generation is always that they help their genes.

03:05:04.540 So a heart cannot be a good heart just because it's a good heart.

03:05:08.580 It has to be a good heart that serves genes.

03:05:12.520 A leg cannot be a good leg by the standard of legness.

03:05:17.400 It has to be a leg that leads you to have more babies or more surviving.

03:05:22.740 Just to clarify for people, and we established this on our show too, a phenotype is described

03:05:29.460 as anything that serves the gene itself.

03:05:33.180 So under the group of phenotype, you would also include emotions.

03:05:37.680 you might even include cultures, anything that the gene kind of does to serve its own survival.

03:05:43.900 Would that be accurate?

03:05:45.520 Exactly. But it's not defined as such.

03:05:49.020 It's just that you end up discovering, the phenotype is defined as,

03:05:53.640 either in the Dawkins view, it is defined as the cone of all causes in the world of a gene.

03:06:00.460 So it's everything that your body does, your entire life, your brain, what you think about,

03:06:06.020 your music that you play, everything, emotions, even impacts in the world and the molecules of

03:06:12.260 air that you breathe in and out. All of this is the phenotype. It's the set of causes of a genome.

03:06:20.220 Now, a priori, it is not defined as serving the gene, but you end up discovering when you think

03:06:27.380 about the principle of phenotypic servitude, it cannot go otherwise. And the ultimate asymmetry

03:06:33.020 between the genes and the phenotype goes as follows. The genes are selected for serving

03:06:42.120 themselves. The phenotypes are selected for serving the genes. That is the only difference

03:06:49.700 between the two. The phenotype is altruistic fully toward the genes because the phenotype

03:06:56.220 has no way to get into the next generation, just like we spoke about before. Injuries are not

03:07:02.100 carried forward yes exactly and that's why when uh we describe this to people you know and we go

03:07:08.560 back to information theory about you know in most even like a message you know what is language what

03:07:15.060 is vocalization it's a way to build a structure around a message and to kind of almost teleport

03:07:23.060 it into another person's mind similarly everything that because people are kind of used to thinking

03:07:28.020 around of the body as this giant mechanism to make your life propel through time. But in another

03:07:35.120 sense, your body, your mind, everything you do, everything you create is in a sense, just your

03:07:41.860 DNA attempting to propagate itself. And I think that's a good way to frame this sort of thing that

03:07:47.380 all this stuff that we kind of take for granted that we think is essential, that can change if

03:07:53.360 it were to be proven that it did not serve the survival of your dna um i and i wonder and i

03:08:01.740 guess that's where what's so interesting about the end of your book because it presupposes that

03:08:08.600 like the the complexity of this new whatever takes over from dna actually that's a good question so

03:08:16.820 maybe can we take some time and explain the rna world hypothesis because the question i had was

03:08:23.900 for uh a new phenotypic revolution to occur would the new um the successor to dna

03:08:33.220 would that necessarily be something more complex than dna in the same way that dna was more

03:08:40.140 complex than rna and maybe that's how we can start with what what is the rna world the theory

03:08:45.440 Yeah, I would say it doesn't have technically to be more complex, but the more complex route is probably the route always adopted, because by nature, a revolutionary phenotype is basically a revolutionary part of your body, of your phenotype, or outside of your body, but part of your causes in the world that takes over the management of your genes.

03:09:13.640 But to take over the management of your genes, it probably needs a higher resolution.

03:09:19.800 It needs to understand your genes better than you do, and better than evolution does, in a way.

03:09:25.260 So that's what a revolutionary phenotype is, and therefore it tends to attract more complexity,

03:09:32.120 because by definition, a birthing revolutionary phenotype will have multiple babies of the native life form that it exploits, like puppets.

03:09:44.520 So let's get to the RNA world and how that relates.

03:09:49.040 The RNA world theory is a relatively accepted view of the emergence of DNA-based life on Earth.

03:09:58.860 And it's 75% of the biologists believe in it, and the 25% other are not strongly opposed to it.

03:10:06.300 It's basically a consensus view that most biologists believe in,

03:10:12.100 that it must be the case that before DNA existed on Earth,

03:10:17.200 there was another life form.

03:10:18.880 That other life form didn't have DNA replication, didn't have DNA genomes.

03:10:23.780 It had RNA genomes.

03:10:27.380 My theory is explaining why the RNA world hypothesis is certainly true

03:10:34.260 and why it can happen again, basically.

03:10:38.220 What happened 4 billion years ago in the RNA world hypothesis

03:10:42.700 goes as follows.

03:10:44.740 A life form existed, it had only RNA,

03:10:48.300 and eventually it created DNA out of an accident or something like this.

03:10:56.040 And somehow life moved on to using DNA as a gene carrier.

03:11:02.040 Now, that's the state of the RNA world hypothesis as I enter the game. That's how it was told before the revolutionary phenotype, but I have much to add about it.

03:11:14.220 And then the idea was that even prior to RNA, it would just be basic proteins.

03:11:21.900 And I think you had outlined in the book that there may well have been three phenotypic revolutions in their history, maybe even more, but three that we're sure of.

03:11:33.880 Is that correct?

03:11:35.380 Well, the idea that a protein life form preceded RNA is not as much consensus accepted as RNA world theory.

03:11:46.100 So people, they have a strong belief, biologists have a strong belief that RNA must have preceded DNA,

03:11:53.820 but then only a few biologists really get into the, oh yeah, and before RNA there was a protein world.

03:12:00.600 But yeah, I do believe from the logical reasoning that I present in the revolutionary phenotype, I believe we must accept that three phenotypic revolutions have happened on Earth, that they have transferred from protein to RNA, that eventually a life form went from RNA to DNA, and that we may be initiating another cycle of that kind.

03:12:26.820 now i'm gonna try and summarize a point here and i want you to tell me if i've totally fucked it up

03:12:33.140 and butchered it but it's one of the ones i find most interesting because i follow the logic of it

03:12:38.400 which is um kind of what we were talking about before about the evolutionary bottleneck

03:12:42.540 that you can and you kind of say this in the book where you say you can chop up your dna a lot you

03:12:49.960 can damage your dna quite a bit and not all that damage will transfer to your offspring which means

03:12:57.260 that you know there is some kind of junk dna but there is like a fundamental quantifiable amount

03:13:04.060 of dna like a minimum viable dna that is required to transfer over and i thought that was an

03:13:11.080 interesting idea that makes sense you know trying to quantify the it might call that i think that's

03:13:15.460 what the cream was, the replicationness. And then once you quantify that, say, oh, there's some kind

03:13:21.720 of some minimum viable replicationness of the DNA, then you can say, okay, perhaps that is what

03:13:30.660 kind of taught DNA to kind of take over. Because for people who might still be a bit lost on it,

03:13:38.740 the idea was that rna created dna as a tool a tool to assist it in its replication and then at some

03:13:46.880 point while and dna got very very good at it and then just kind of like technology we kind of

03:13:53.080 offloaded more responsibility onto it because it was so good such a good tool that at some point

03:13:58.780 it inherited this essence it inherited some kind of replication this and i think you had talked

03:14:05.000 about the phenotypic tango.

03:14:08.780 Would you mind explaining that?

03:14:10.620 I remember there's the tango thing.

03:14:12.960 So let's get into the cream and the tango.

03:14:15.680 So the cream is a term I came up with

03:14:18.620 because there was too much confusion

03:14:21.600 around environment versus phenotype.

03:14:27.900 Because Richard Dawkins came with the extended phenotype,

03:14:32.760 This idea that the causes of your gene extend outside of your body.

03:14:37.520 Therefore, it's wrong to even think of your body as something limited.

03:14:41.320 If you cry, and because you cry, your mother cries, you've just caused tears to come out of her body.

03:14:51.740 And so you can sum up the contribution of genes to the world, not in terms of what they do in your body and the characteristics that they give you,

03:15:01.060 but the characteristics that they give to the whole physical universe.

03:15:05.720 So that's extended phenotype thinking by Richard Dawkins.

03:15:10.200 And I was annoyed because in the extended phenotype,

03:15:13.800 there is our brain and there is our cultural influences.

03:15:17.740 And then because ideas have been presented as memes by Dawkins,

03:15:21.680 we end up with the false conception

03:15:24.640 that phenotype, environment, and culture

03:15:29.940 are kind of distinct categories, but they're not distinct categories. One example I give

03:15:36.260 often is consider the blood sugar level in your body. The blood sugar level in your body depends

03:15:44.600 on you living in an environment where there are trees, because the trees have to produce apples

03:15:51.800 so that you can eat the apple, so that you can have sugar in your blood, or some cows or pigs

03:15:57.940 being around that you can eat so that you can have sugar in your blood. So it's false to think

03:16:03.760 of the environment and of the phenotype as two separate things. Ultimately,

03:16:09.840 is it the environment, your blood sugar level, or is it the phenotype? Well, it's your phenotype

03:16:17.000 because you created your blood with your genes. It's also your phenotype because your genes

03:16:22.880 allowed you to gather apples that led you to fill yourself with sugar. But it's also actually the

03:16:28.860 phenotype of the tree. The tree has produced the sugar that's in your blood right now.

03:16:34.580 So because of these confusions around the limit between the environment and the phenotype, I said,

03:16:41.880 let us just put all these definitions behind. The environment, the phenotype don't even exist.

03:16:48.680 let's talk of things that make copies of themselves and things that don't make copies

03:16:53.740 of themselves. So queens is what makes copies of itself. It's like DNA. Cream is what doesn't 1.00

03:17:03.820 make a copy of itself. And it's like the sugar blood level that you have. It's like all sorts

03:17:10.040 of other things in our life. Most things don't make copies of themselves. And as I point out

03:17:15.160 in my book that that's the important thinking around the term cream. You have to know that

03:17:21.020 there are things that look like each other, but that haven't been obtained through replication.

03:17:27.520 For example, cars. Cars look like each other. Two instances of a given car model,

03:17:36.620 they look basically the same, but they've not been replicated. One car didn't come from the other.

03:17:43.080 What happens is that there's a blueprint that leads to the producing of all the cars in the manufacture.

03:17:50.540 So you have to think of the cars as cream too.

03:17:53.800 And the reason I came up with the term cream is that my first thinking around this was around the milk.

03:17:59.620 The milk that we carry across generations because we are mammals who breastfeed their children.

03:18:07.620 And I was thinking about cows and I was thinking, what is the difference?

03:18:11.460 bills. Let's say a cow is giving some molecules of fat to her child. The child cow, if it's a

03:18:19.640 female, will eventually give molecules of fat to her own offspring. It goes on and on. Why is the

03:18:26.620 milk not a gene? Well, the milk is not a gene because it merely transfers, but it doesn't

03:18:32.960 replicate. So that's why things like cream, like milk, like cars, they don't replicate even if they

03:18:40.720 seem to pass on if they seem to to have multiple copies of them they don't really replicate they

03:18:47.160 are not queens and would um i think you might have given this example but would cancer also

03:18:55.280 be one like from the outside it looks like it grows it replicates but you know it doesn't it

03:19:01.280 lacks that sort of self-replication or even like um i think the example is a growing skin in like

03:19:08.520 a petri dish or something like it can grow kind of but not really replicate right well that brings

03:19:15.580 us to the second chapter of my contribution to evolutionary theory which is uh the chapter the

03:19:22.140 naked warrior chapter eight uh cancer is an example of a life form but a life form that always fails

03:19:30.240 because I'm thinking cancer cannot be placed in the cream category.

03:19:37.620 It does actually make copies of itself.

03:19:40.420 The cells are making copies of the DNA.

03:19:43.540 They are disruptive to your body.

03:19:46.040 So I make the thought process in my book,

03:19:48.920 why is it that cancer fails at becoming a life form?

03:19:53.020 Why don't we have cancer becoming squirrels and octopuses and elephants?

03:19:59.160 and birds.

03:20:01.780 So there has to be something else 0.50

03:20:04.540 than the distinction between queens and cream

03:20:07.260 to explain this.

03:20:09.860 So the explanation I come up with is

03:20:11.920 the problem of cancer is

03:20:13.900 it has achieved the status of a replicator,

03:20:17.180 but it hasn't freed itself

03:20:20.260 from the dependence on its past replicator.

03:20:24.400 And the metaphor I do

03:20:26.420 is that of the naked wire.

03:20:27.980 Suppose you have someone who's really well-trained for warrior stuff, is capable of fighting with a sword and armor or whatever.

03:20:37.100 But suppose you strip that person of its equipment.

03:20:40.680 Now you have a naked warrior, a very talented person at manipulating the sword and the shield, but he has no more sword and shield.

03:20:48.620 So his strength has become meaningless.

03:20:51.780 That's what the cancer is.

03:20:53.120 the cancer cell is reproductive, but it's in a context where it's about to kill the very body

03:20:58.880 that it depends on. And so it's not a viable life form. It's a life form that is bound to fail

03:21:07.020 all the time. That's why it kills us, but it doesn't become its own civilization.

03:21:12.420 And you know what? When I had read that in the book, and maybe this is me connecting dots,

03:21:16.980 I shouldn't, but that reminded me of artificial intelligence, that any scenario where I could

03:21:22.620 imagine, for some reason, artificial intelligence destroying humanity, it would almost assuredly

03:21:28.160 destroy itself because it could not escape the bounds of what humans had given to it.

03:21:35.840 Exactly. And that is one of the big problems of whatever artificial intelligence becomes a threat

03:21:43.260 to humans. The problem is it's not going to be an equal threat to all humans. So from the

03:21:49.980 perspective of an AI trying to dominate the world, suppose that the AI punishes you evolutionarily,

03:21:56.740 perhaps throws nukes at you, or perhaps convinces you of bad ideas that lead you to not reproduce

03:22:02.480 and the human species suddenly is at risk. There's going to be a bunch of humans who are less

03:22:08.460 influenced by these nukes, who are less influenced by this propaganda, who are less willing to turn

03:22:14.380 on the AI. You know, and it could be a bunch of pygmas on an island somewhere, but there are

03:22:21.560 plenty of humans out there who have the emotional equipment to basically be AI resistant before the

03:22:28.860 AI was even invented. That is why those are the problem. You are not overextending. Those are

03:22:36.640 really the problem of any phenotypic machine trying to take over the life form that created it.

03:22:43.920 it's bound to fail and i think um i don't think we established this yet but we were going to was

03:22:50.240 i think it was called the replicator tango and i think that's kind of what we're talking about

03:22:54.480 sort of that in at that process by which uh the dna would eventually kind of assume that

03:23:01.360 replication is would you mind explaining that a little bit yeah so i'm thinking okay uh it seems

03:23:07.940 is insurmountable. How do you fix the problem that our body doesn't replicate, most of it?

03:23:16.540 So most of it is cream. And then even if it's not cream, even if it's like a cancer,

03:23:23.160 it ends up being subject to the problem of the naked warrior. So we're basically bounded.

03:23:28.340 No piece of our body, no AI, no matter how aggressive you make it, can ever take over

03:23:35.380 a life of its own. But then I think, okay, but four billion years ago, it must have happened.

03:23:41.880 Four billion years ago, DNA wasn't there, and eventually it was there. And eventually it became

03:23:47.160 the dominant life form. So I'm thinking, how did that happen? How do you create a situation

03:23:54.420 in which you resolve both the problem of not being replicative and the problem of being a naked

03:24:01.700 wire. And in observing the current theories around DNA and also making up my own thinking around it,

03:24:09.940 I end up concluding the special situation in which DNA found itself against RNA was called

03:24:18.080 a replicator tango. That's a term I came up with. It's the idea that RNA didn't use DNA as a random

03:24:27.180 tool doing some random task. RNA trusted its genes to DNA. RNA decided at some point, DNA is better

03:24:36.300 than myself at carrying genes, maybe at copying genes, maybe at protecting genes. No matter why

03:24:44.120 it is, RNA decided to use the DNA intermediary at some point to trust it with the genes of its

03:24:51.620 offspring. And it may have been a kind of genetic manipulation experiment that RNA was involved in.

03:24:57.960 You can think of it that way. You could think that RNA was in a certain way, had probably limits of

03:25:04.500 mutation. It had too many mutations compared to DNA. And eventually it finds this solution. Well,

03:25:11.520 if I spend most of my time in DNA form, if I leave my genes stored or archived in DNA form

03:25:18.840 for just a while, maybe for 90% of my life. And then for 10% of my life, I transfer back into

03:25:27.320 RNA and I start producing babies. Instead of producing my babies from myself, I will produce

03:25:34.580 my babies from the DNA model that I built. Of course, it's cognitive presentation that I do

03:25:41.860 here, but somehow it happened at the molecular level that RNA ended up giving itself away to

03:25:48.680 DNA. That's what a replicator tango is. It's when your life form, instead of having one molecule,

03:25:55.320 it alternates between one molecule and another to survive. Yeah, and eventually one takes over.

03:26:02.520 It's that sort of interplay and the sharing that allows it to happen. And I think the way you had

03:26:08.520 described it was really what built to the end of the book, which was the question we must ask

03:26:14.920 ourselves is how might dna if we view ourselves as as the human body is just a giant carrier for

03:26:22.740 dna how could we offload our replication into something like i think it's called a crispr

03:26:30.080 crspr basically gene editing yeah and so it's almost to help people wrap their head around it's

03:26:36.040 like gene editing itself almost as as the replicator and then over the course of again

03:26:43.560 think hundreds think thousands maybe think tens of thousands of years uh how that could you know

03:26:50.220 by the by this point whatever you know is human might not even be human anymore you know it's

03:26:57.420 like you're not or another good book for this if people want um an idea of what this is like in

03:27:03.320 fiction form you know we discussed this on the show before is this book called the forever war

03:27:08.640 uh the end of that book basically just for people don't know it's the book it's one of three like

03:27:14.900 good future war books i like it's starship troopers forever war and actually ender's

03:27:20.360 game is pretty good i didn't like it at first was pretty good anyway forever war it's about

03:27:24.500 sort of time debt and time travel and it's the story of this soldier that goes to fight alien

03:27:29.100 species but every time he comes home more and more time has passed and so you know he comes back

03:27:34.940 from the war and earth has completely changed culturally it's a metaphor for like the vietnam

03:27:40.840 soldier coming back from vietnam but in a sci-fi context and the idea is like he goes to war he

03:27:47.120 comes back it's 25 years later his dad is dead his mom is gay now and she's like homosexuality

03:27:55.620 is accepted and people are people have to like work weird jobs in the world it's like i don't

03:28:01.880 know what i'm fighting for anymore and then he goes back again comes back a couple more times

03:28:07.180 and by the end the funny thing is like they go out for the final battle with this uh alien species

03:28:14.900 that every time they meet them 20 years have passed so every time they engage them it's

03:28:19.940 completely new technology completely new tactics then um they come home and they realize oh the

03:28:25.360 war has been over for a while we saw this was actually you know what now i think about it

03:28:29.880 The book itself is kind of related to this because each side develops its own artificial intelligence that gets more and more complex.

03:28:37.600 Then eventually those AIs start communicating with themselves, irrespective of their host, you know, species.

03:28:46.520 And they realize that the entire war was just a miscommunication.

03:28:49.380 But by that point, human beings don't even reproduce sexually.

03:28:53.540 And there's this whole part near the end of the book.

03:28:55.600 you might get a kick out of this book actually where he's teaching a class and they're kind of

03:29:01.740 laughing at him because he's this guy that likes sex and that's weird to them they're like you

03:29:07.820 like you get that's weird like it's they don't even think he's barbaric they just think he's

03:29:11.800 stupid and like an alien himself and he's like you people don't get horny what's wrong with you

03:29:16.920 um but it's sort of that sounds very interesting i'll certainly read this because yes it is one

03:29:23.660 of the great warnings I give. If humanity starts a phenotypic revolution, we will become a non-sexual

03:29:30.500 species. We will become a phenotypic part of something else that doesn't have sex.

03:29:37.380 And it will go very easy. The progression there is very easy to obtain when you start modifying

03:29:45.280 your genes. Now, the consequences of this are bigger than most people can realize. Abandoning

03:29:52.440 sexual status as a species is not just abandoning the fun of sex or orgasm. It's not about this.

03:30:01.360 What you abandon is the set of evolutionary pressures that led sex to contribute to a

03:30:07.860 greater species, a greater species with more independence, more creativity, more intelligence.

03:30:14.440 Because I submit that most of what we are above a bacteria, that means everything basically that we are as humans, everything has been caused by sexual selection.

03:30:34.200 Because we know what happens to a non-sexual life form.

03:30:38.700 There's two types. 0.99

03:30:40.220 There's the bacteria type.

03:30:42.560 So bacteria didn't grow in complexity. And it is largely because they don't have that much sexual distinction. Much of our brain, much of what we end up doing to serve society and lead to a more complex civilization, our intelligence, all of it is just a sexual signal that has evolved for us to attain higher social status so we could get the girl.

03:31:09.940 When you abandon this evolutionary pressure, you become a tool for something else.

03:31:16.660 You become subservient to whatever is farming your genes.

03:31:20.980 And if we let AI be that thing, it will farm us into tools.

03:31:26.500 And the fact is we don't need 95% of the intelligence we have if we're to be a tool for something else.

03:31:34.820 and that's a great way to frame it because you know as i the more i think about it the more i

03:31:40.480 think because i was trying to figure out ways to explain these ideas to people who might be

03:31:46.420 initially hostile to them you know maybe try and frame it in a metaphysical way or frame it in a

03:31:52.580 way that's friendly to more traditional minded people and the way i look at it's like it would

03:31:57.940 be like separating humans from nature it'd be like us trying to say we want to utilize gene

03:32:05.300 editing to perfect our genes in a way that is separate from nature separate from evolutionary

03:32:12.920 pressures and it's only but then what are those new pressures it's like we're introducing new

03:32:18.840 pressures that are apart from nature and how how many different ways can that go haywire but that

03:32:25.140 But that's what seems inevitable about it.

03:32:26.980 That's what's so scary because if you talk to your average person right now, and you

03:32:32.520 outline this very well in the book, it's like, I can draw you a map politically for

03:32:37.460 how we get to gene editing because there is a tipping point where once a certain percentage

03:32:42.680 of the demographic starts making perfect babies, then everyone's going to want to do it, right?

03:32:50.460 Absolutely.

03:32:50.980 Absolutely. And so it's a runaway phenomenon that almost can only happen unless people take notice of the things.

03:33:00.120 I don't know if you've read my ordinal letter.

03:33:02.740 I wrote a letter to future humans millions of years down the line so that they can know that in 2023, here I was, knowing what would happen to them.

03:33:14.080 Have you seen it?

03:33:15.000 I have not seen that. Would you mind summarizing it?

03:33:17.200 And by the way, that's why we do this podcast, too.

03:33:19.380 It's a I told you so to the millions of years in the future, people.

03:33:23.540 Yeah.

03:33:25.000 So I wrote it on the BTC blockchain as an ordinal.

03:33:28.840 So it will be carried into the future.

03:33:30.520 As long as Bitcoin exists, it will be carried in the blockchain.

03:33:36.120 And I end this letter.

03:33:37.000 That's cool, actually.

03:33:37.860 I want to do something like that.

03:33:39.620 Oh, yeah.

03:33:40.120 It's really worth it.

03:33:41.300 I end this letter by saying

03:33:43.960 the process of a phenotypic

03:33:45.780 revolution is even more alarming

03:33:47.720 than a simple case of

03:33:49.660 outbreeding or outcompetition.

03:33:52.080 It is one thing for a life form

03:33:53.680 to disappear because it was unfit

03:33:55.760 for the world in which it found

03:33:57.640 itself. It is another thing for

03:33:59.760 this life form to willfully give up

03:34:01.820 its liberty, its creativity,

03:34:03.680 and to allow its fragments

03:34:05.620 to be recuperated by another

03:34:07.500 entity that it has itself

03:34:09.520 birthed. Slavery was bad, but choosing genetic slavery for all of your descendants going forward

03:34:16.180 is worse. I understand that it may all seem unreal to you. How could it be that this progression was

03:34:23.220 known to a man in 2023 and that yet humanity still carelessly took this course? There are many

03:34:29.860 reasons, but most importantly, you were lied to. You were lied to by people who obfuscated the

03:34:35.660 ability of their mind to think in the long term. You were lied to by people who had monetary

03:34:41.080 incentives to do so. The best part of you, the caring parent, was exploited by people who wanted

03:34:47.540 to benefit from it while condemning your line of descent to slavery. These people spoke in

03:34:53.500 technical language, telling you that genetic techniques were safe and effective at resolving

03:34:59.100 certain diseases, but they said nothing about the evolutionary consequences of the game they were

03:35:05.300 playing. Their brains had evolved not to care for the benefits of humanity in the long run,

03:35:12.020 and they knew your brains had not evolved for that either. Evolution had turned their

03:35:17.060 side to the proximal gains they could obtain by recruiting you into their worldwide experiment.

03:35:23.700 And I finish by saying we must choose not to choose. We must do so not out of carelessness

03:35:32.500 for the outcome of humanity, for what happens to humanity,

03:35:37.460 but because we recognize that the mechanism of nature

03:35:41.180 are better fit than the minds of man to choose the path forward.

03:35:46.820 So that is the message I throw to people into the future

03:35:50.720 because I've kind of abandoned the idea

03:35:53.940 that we could have a rational conversation in this world,

03:35:58.320 in our present times.

03:36:00.160 People are too stupid.

03:36:01.620 And so I hope that one day people can read that letter.

03:36:07.200 Perhaps we won't be more intelligent than we are then,

03:36:10.320 but at least seeing the consequences of genetic editing having started onto humanity,

03:36:17.100 perhaps people will be more open to that discourse than they are today.

03:36:21.260 Well, I think that's a very poignant letter,

03:36:23.580 and I think that will resonate with a lot of people who listen to this,

03:36:27.300 Because listening to that, it sounds that – it sounds like genetic editing would be uniquely popular to people in this thing of ours called the dissident right.

03:36:41.660 Because, you know, it would almost seem like a rebellion against – I'm sure you're aware of Edward Dutton and his spiteful mutant theory.

03:36:53.300 And so I could see this quest for genetic perfection, gene editing being very popular to a lot of dissonant right people who are very, very concerned about pure genetics as a rebelling against the runaway, you know, spiteful mutants and inferior genetics run amok.

03:37:11.520 This is how we can save it. But it's by that process that we could enter into this whole new world that we're not prepared for.

03:37:20.440 And that's why I think this is such an interesting discussion, because I do think there are political implications. Anyone who's interested in trad stuff, there is a trad angle to this. There's people that could be talking about the dangers of gene editing right now, because I think the guys on our side might become the biggest proponents of it going forward. What do you think about that?

03:37:44.800 there is a ted kaczynski angle to this also uh yeah i believe it can go both ways i do hear this

03:37:52.920 on the current right uh this excitement that hey since the world is unfair uh and since we are so

03:38:02.160 headed toward imperfection uh let us perfect ourselves through this technology and a lot of

03:38:08.280 it is based around thinking of if you don't do it they will do it first and they will beat you and

03:38:14.400 So this whole arms race type of thinking is very often invoked by right-wing people.

03:38:21.980 I think it can also go the other way, a surprising way, where you could have the left at some

03:38:27.900 point tired of advocating for equality and doing exactly what they like to do, which

03:38:35.980 is first delude themselves into a lie and then make that lie a reality by trying to

03:38:41.780 manipulate the world in that direction.

03:38:44.400 They've done this with affirmative action, in a way, trying to bias the system to make it less meritocratic and more race-based.

03:38:54.520 They've done it with the vaccine, trying to basically interfere in people's biology by basically changing the way their body works and causing events of immunohistochemistry to develop in the body.

03:39:12.160 They will have no doubt that they will be excited at the idea that, hey, we can finally put a plain starting point for everyone.

03:39:23.640 Everyone can really start at the same place when we can modify genes, when we can remove the disadvantages that nature gave you so that the right-wingers can finally shut up about this.

03:39:34.840 And we are all born the same eventually.

03:39:38.100 Yeah, I could see that happening too.

03:39:40.180 But what was that story, Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut was something like that, which was trying to handicap, create this sort of genetic balance through really, if anyone hasn't read that book, it's like a short story I think anyone could read right now.

03:39:58.520 But it's funny that there's been so many great minds kind of toying around the edges of this idea of equality from almost a eugenics perspective.

03:40:10.180 But yeah, I suppose that's probably as good a place to leave as any, because I got everything, all the questions I wanted to get. And you've provided a lot for people to think about, especially that last message.

03:40:26.160 And I was going to kind of leave on this. Can we expect a sequel to this book or have any new innovations come across your mind since publishing this?

03:40:40.960 absolutely there will be a sequel it will be the moral signal the moral signal was actually the

03:40:48.120 initial title of this book but when i discovered the theory of phenotypic revolution i thought this

03:40:54.660 is way too important i have to do this first but it was on my quest of explaining human culture

03:41:00.700 that i got onto all of this so i'm going back to my original desire which is to explain human

03:41:08.060 culture? How should we see it? How can we think in, you were talking about information theory

03:41:15.380 and Robert Weiner, it's very much where I'm headed with the moral signal, which is, let's think of

03:41:22.460 the whole thing, the whole thing of the virtual space of human communication as a signaling

03:41:29.520 system, as tubes with bits in it, and what are we really telling each other when we adopt a

03:41:38.700 religion like Christianity, or when we adopt a behavioral taboo, or when we transact? What are

03:41:46.040 we launching in terms of signals to each other from the perspective of a sender-receiver view

03:41:52.140 based in information theory, and how does that mix with the theory of evolution? This will be the

03:41:58.560 subject of my second book, but I've been procrastinating and I really need to get to

03:42:06.560 the finishing of the writing because it's largely written already, but I got thrown on tangents.

03:42:13.260 I love mathematics and I've been spending a lot of months trying to prove a classical

03:42:20.180 mathematical conjecture that is still unproven. So when I get obsessed like this, it typically

03:42:26.300 last six months, maybe eight months, and then I can get back to my writing, which is really my way

03:42:33.300 of living and surviving at this point. That's good. You have to translate some of that for

03:42:39.400 the plebs like me. Sometimes I get a bit too cocky and I wander off into the world of mathematics

03:42:46.340 and hard physics. I dared to buy that book by Roger Penrose, The Road to Reality, because I like

03:42:55.140 I like to go into quantum mechanics as long as it's explained in a retarded way.

03:43:00.720 So then I open that up.

03:43:01.620 I'm like, I don't know, man.

03:43:03.040 We're getting into triangles.

03:43:04.680 It turns out I don't know what a triangle is.

03:43:07.640 So I need it explained in 130 pages.

03:43:13.680 Yes.

03:43:14.660 All right.

03:43:15.160 So that is – we're very, very looking forward to that.

03:43:18.500 What is that called?

03:43:19.140 The Moral Signal.

03:43:21.260 We're going to look forward to that.

03:43:22.580 That's right up my alley.

03:43:23.740 that's the type of stuff i love it to look into so uh we're gonna leave it at that um i wanted

03:43:29.740 everyone to go check out jfg.world that's his website you can find places to buy that book

03:43:37.060 hardcover softcover uh or audible um check him out on twitter at jf garipi it's garipi right

03:43:45.300 is it garipi have i been pronouncing it wrong the entire time even if i try to tell it to you

03:43:50.440 you won't ever pronounce it correctly it's gary api hey i'm from ontario give me some slack

03:43:56.700 one of these gay ruby guys over here um so and check him out uh the jfg tonight

03:44:07.880 on odyssey i believe that's an every day every evening show check that out yeah great stuff i've

03:44:14.660 been uh admirer of your work for quite some time and i'm finally happy i got to speak to you on

03:44:19.780 this book. I hope people really, really look into this because you will be surprised at the

03:44:25.880 immediate applicable questions that emerge once you start going down this path.

03:44:31.560 So thank you again for taking the time. It's a surprisingly relevant book that I didn't intend

03:44:37.120 to write as relevant, but it turned out so important and so relevant to the current days

03:44:43.060 matters this book was in a way a phenotype of the moral signal that took over i'm gonna end

03:44:51.720 on a butchering of the concept thank you thank you for taking the time today bye bye

03:44:59.160 hey baby i hear the blues are calling tall salads and scrambled eggs

03:45:05.960 And maybe I seem a bit confused

03:45:10.520 Yeah, maybe, but I got you pegged

03:45:12.960 Ha, ha, ha, ha

03:45:14.880 But I don't know what to do

03:45:16.980 With those tossed salads and scrambled eggs

Blood Satellite - May 27, 2023

Sunzets are the Bisexual of Sky [＂Karcher wd3 which I know what is thin＂]

Episode Stats

Transcript