Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - A Man Joined Their Sorority. These Women Fought Back

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00:00:30.040 Courage is contagious, and us getting to share our story has encouraged others to share theirs as well.

00:00:34.820 I will take all the hits I have to to give other women the courage to keep sharing their stories as well.

00:00:44.560 These are the coolest gals ever.

00:00:47.840 You guys have been an inspiration to me, and so I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for fighting to preserve single-sex spaces for women.

00:00:57.140 The fight that you guys have embarked on is protecting and saving women's sororities

00:01:02.020 It's so crazy when you kind of say it out loud

00:01:04.440 This is a fight that you guys have been kind of immersed in the past four years when you initially learned that a man was going to be joining your sorority

00:01:11.400 Uh two years ago

00:01:12.920 We found ourselves on the steps of the 10th circuit court of appeals just like we did this week

00:01:17.980 So I just kind of want you guys to go back and explain the moment when you learned a man was going to be joining your sorority

00:01:25.440 Yeah. So he started out going through formal recruitment, just like everyone else does

00:01:31.200 picture Alabama rush, but smaller. Um, we were briefly told beforehand that there was a

00:01:38.280 transgender female going through, um, just to prepare a little bit for us. And they kind of

00:01:45.360 did the whole pronouns talk with us. But at that point, you really don't believe it, right? Like

00:01:49.200 you're in Wyoming, like there's no way. But the second he stepped through that door, it was so

00:01:54.420 obvious which one he was. So he ended up going through that process, did not get a bid from any

00:02:00.680 houses. So he wasn't asked to come back to any of the houses on campus. After that, he applied for

00:02:07.280 continuous open bidding. It's more of an informal rush style, like coffee dates with some girls,

00:02:13.120 very low-key under wraps. And they did keep it under wraps because most members like me and

00:02:19.320 Allie and Maddie, we had no idea that he was even going through Rush the second time until we were

00:02:26.160 asked to vote on it in our meeting, chapter meeting that Monday night. So it was very,

00:02:32.560 they pulled the blanket over our eyes for sure. We had no idea it was going on until it was too

00:02:36.060 late. So like before we even went back to school that semester, even made it back to work week or

00:02:41.420 even thought about recruitment. In our sorority group chat, the recruitment chair sent out a

00:02:46.460 message to fill out a google poll for us to fill in our pronouns to be put on our name tags for

00:02:52.220 recruitment um and me and my little and the sorority jaylen actually are we're the only ones

00:02:57.600 that didn't fill it out and so the recruitment chair hunted us down and texted us in a group

00:03:01.660 chat and was like hey i need to know your pronouns we need to put them on these name tags and i was 1.00

00:03:06.100 like no everybody my pronouns should be clear this is a sorority it's a house full of women she her 1.00

00:03:11.480 are the only acceptable pronouns in the House. 1.00

00:03:13.860 I don't want the politics to be affiliated with this organization. 0.94

00:03:17.800 This is a sorority. It's not a political group.

00:03:19.580 Do not put anything on mine.

00:03:21.320 And we had some back and forth for a while,

00:03:23.380 and eventually she just quit replying,

00:03:25.700 and we didn't have the pronouns on our name tag.

00:03:27.980 But then seeing what happened shortly after,

00:03:30.700 it all made sense why we had to be so inclusive all of a sudden.

00:03:34.420 So it sounds like this man who goes by the name of Artemis,

00:03:39.500 it sounds like he was able to bypass some of the I guess rush protocol and typical measures that

00:03:47.940 you all go through as women to ultimately be approved and be allowed or I guess accepted

00:03:54.620 I don't know if I'm using the right verbiage it's so funny in comparing kind of y'all's experience

00:03:59.020 versus that of mine who doesn't have much knowledge of a sorority so forgive me if my like

00:04:03.860 lingo is kind of off but it seemed as if he was able to bypass some of the very strenuous hard

00:04:09.360 things you guys have to do to ultimately be accepted into a house does that sound right

00:04:14.220 absolutely yeah there's a lot of different factors i mean one of the biggest ones is when

00:04:19.660 we do vote on these girls things have to be transparent such as if the person is going to

00:04:24.500 be a grade risk or if the girl is going to be a standards risk the chapter has to be aware before

00:04:28.740 we vote on them um and other girls throughout the recruitment process were we were notified like oh

00:04:34.720 hey, this is a great risk. And it's just to help with your decision on whether or not

00:04:38.680 we as a chapter can support this individual academically, if it's going to be a good fit.

00:04:44.080 And information like that was not disclosed to us before the vote. This individual did not

00:04:49.340 have a stellar GPA whatsoever. It did not even come close to meeting the requirements.

00:04:54.780 And I'll be honest, I wasn't always the best student. So like I did have to go on academic

00:04:58.680 probation and go through all of the steps to get better grades. And I'm so thankful to have that

00:05:03.820 support that did get me there. But this individual didn't have to go through the same steps that I

00:05:08.000 did. Wow. Okay, Hannah, so then you guys, you're told to vote. What did that voting process look

00:05:15.540 like? And then ultimately, what was the outcome of this vote? So the way voting normally works

00:05:21.580 for any sort of recruitment, we do this in formal recruitment too. There's a special app that we use.

00:05:26.540 It's completely anonymous. You don't see any names. The leadership just sees basically numbers

00:05:32.660 on stats a yes or no uh that is not how we voted on him we used a google form google polls where

00:05:39.420 you had to put your email in so they knew your name you can't just hide an email so they could

00:05:44.020 see not only your name but who you voted or uh who voted and what your answer was um and then

00:05:51.400 so in meeting we can't have our phones so they sent it out after um and if you didn't respond

00:05:58.160 I remember getting texts in our group chat saying, you need to respond. You need to respond.

00:06:02.560 We're going to come knock on doors if you haven't responded. So they knew exactly who had voted and

00:06:08.060 what they voted for at the end of the day, which is completely wrong. That's never how it's been.

00:06:13.620 That's not how it's supposed to be. And yeah, obviously he got in. So it was an intimidation

00:06:20.560 tactic for sure for the girls who weren't strong enough to vote no. Before the votes happened, 1.00

00:06:27.080 we had women from my pledge class who held officer positions, senior girls, stand up and 1.00

00:06:32.240 give speeches about why you needed to vote this member in and how you didn't belong there if you

00:06:37.940 said no, and you had no good reason other than you're transphobic if you don't let this person

00:06:42.260 in. And it was very much a bullying tactic and intimidation to get girls to sway their vote.

00:06:47.740 So it wasn't fair at all from the beginning. Talk about kind of the sorority dynamic and

00:06:54.840 maybe some of the things that sororities ultimately provide you with, um, obviously your time in

00:07:00.420 college, but I think even beyond that, and I think this is important for people to understand because

00:07:04.520 this isn't just an environment where, you know, you, you spend the night at nights, you sleep in

00:07:10.660 your sorority house, and that's kind of the end of it. These ultimately give you your lifelong

00:07:14.440 friends. It teaches you skill sets that you use beyond, uh, your time in college. And so talk

00:07:19.820 about kind of the dynamic of it and how that dynamic is totally interrupted when you throw a

00:07:25.120 man into the mix. I've noticed like I joined in 2019 as a freshman. And so I got to enjoy the

00:07:32.180 sorority as it should be for a few years before a man did join. And you could totally tell a shift

00:07:38.020 throughout the house. I mean, beforehand, we are a small chapter. So all of the girls were

00:07:42.500 incredibly close. I mean, it was no big deal of knocking on doors. Hey, I'm bored. I'm nervous

00:07:48.300 for a testimony or do you just want to hang out and relax for a few minutes or hey do you mind

00:07:52.060 quizzing me on these study questions or things like that like it didn't matter who you sat with

00:07:57.220 at dinner you could just sit down everywhere we were all friends seeing each other in town it was

00:08:01.000 always so fun um and the situation happened and instantly you could feel a political divide in 0.90

00:08:07.400 the house um there were some girls who were just i would say maybe three tops that were very for

00:08:12.500 the situation and they were so loud about it um and then obviously the girls who did sue you know

00:08:17.740 who was against the situation um and after our names were released we did try to file anonymously

00:08:23.280 after our names were released the situation in the house was pretty much unbearable for us i mean it

00:08:29.480 felt like an early 2000s chick flick movie of us sitting down at the lunch table with our lunch

00:08:36.320 trays and then all the girls getting up and storming off just because they couldn't bear to

00:08:40.520 be sitting next to you like it was so dramatic and so ridiculous looking back now but that was

00:08:45.820 the environment we were forced to live in. There was no other options. We weren't going to find 0.91

00:08:49.400 housing midway through the semester. And it was, it was horrible to have to deal with. I remember

00:08:54.260 having to knock on my friend's doors who weren't in Greek life and being like, can I just stay the 0.82

00:08:58.620 night at your house? Because I just need a night away where I don't have to deal with all of this. 0.92

00:09:03.700 That's so crazy.

00:09:04.820 Your uncle Dale is the undisputed king of hot takes. Buffalo, they're a lock because his barber

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00:09:14.880 right at your fingertips everything you need for game day is one tap away don't go with hot takes

00:09:19.540 go with the score bet 19 years or older ontario only if you or somebody you know has gambling

00:09:25.120 concerns call connects ontario 24 7 at 1-866-531-2600 texas at 247-247 or chat with us at

00:09:30.980 www.connectsontario.ca standard messaging data rates may apply hannah were there any specific

00:09:37.140 moments where you felt like your privacy had been violated whether it be in your living quarters

00:09:43.440 or in your like bathroom shower spaces when he obviously was admitted into the sorority did he

00:09:50.200 have access to all of that yeah he had our house code uh all of our doors have like a pad code

00:09:57.600 number whatever the right word for is that only members have the code to uh and since he was

00:10:03.380 technically a member he had that code so he had full access 24 7 to the house um and yeah it was

00:10:10.680 very uncomfortable because he would sit in the corner at our social events um we'd have in like

00:10:15.580 our dining room like during finals and stuff like that um we'd have like get togethers and like

00:10:20.740 stress relievers right he would sit in the corner and would not participate in anything he'd just

00:10:26.120 watch and it was so it was such an eerie feeling like he would not so unsettling yeah he just would

00:10:32.780 sit and watch and members would go up to him we didn't but members would go up to him and ask like

00:10:38.160 hey, you want to come over? Like, we're doing this. And he would just sit there.

00:10:42.000 Wouldn't say anything, would not interact with any members. It was such an eerie feeling just

00:10:46.380 to be watched. The initial complaint that was filed with, I guess, in the legal system described

00:10:53.820 Artemis as six foot two, 260 pounds. It also said that he had been caught voyeuristically

00:11:01.800 peeping was the verbiage that was used and photographing some of the women. And even,

00:11:06.640 it goes on to say in the in the complaint there was one instance where he had a visible erection

00:11:11.880 while doing so so i mean is this what you guys were subjected to yeah i mean luckily i was not

00:11:21.920 um ever in the room when any of that erection was happening but yeah i remember vividly one

00:11:28.360 of my close friends in the house she went her room uh was on one side of the upstairs living room

00:11:34.360 and then the bathroom was on the other and she was showering. It was the closest shower to her

00:11:39.540 room that she always used. She showered, was walking back in either a robe or a towel.

00:11:44.780 He was sitting in that living room on her way back to her room and she looked back and he was

00:11:50.040 staring at her and she felt so uncomfortable and I felt so bad for her. It was to the point where

00:11:55.300 girls would have like a lookout basically when they're in the shower. They would text their 0.99

00:11:58.660 roommate, say, hey, I'm coming back and they would have to clear the hall. So yeah, it was

00:12:03.460 definitely an unnerving feeling um in those intimate spaces especially upstairs when that's

00:12:09.100 where our showers were um and you walk through the hall thinking nothing of it in a robe um back to

00:12:14.960 your room and he there's a possibility he's going to be there so that was that was scary now ali as

00:12:20.940 i understand it your second floor your second story was a space where no mail was technically

00:12:27.340 allowed. Is that right? Probably like boyfriends, I would imagine, even male friends, they weren't

00:12:33.100 allowed on the second floor because I would imagine it was understood that this could be

00:12:38.140 a place where women could let their guard down and be vulnerable with each other without having

00:12:42.740 to fear of male gaze or just the presence of any man. Is that right? Yes, that's 100% correct. I

00:12:50.380 mean, if you were going to bring a man on the second floor, you had to make sure to announce it

00:12:55.100 to the entire chapter. We had the group chat text that we would use. And before the group chat,

00:13:00.920 I mean, you literally had to yell man on floor before bringing him up. And the only exceptions

00:13:05.280 really were like, oh, you know, something broke. We need the handyman up there. We need to move

00:13:09.480 heavy furniture, things like that, or move in and move out. And like moving in late one year,

00:13:16.160 I remember having a text, hey, my dad is going to help me move in. So man on floor, my own father,

00:13:21.740 my father is not a threat whatsoever having my brother there is not a threat but having a man

00:13:26.940 who is actively looking to meet women on a dating app i mean that is that is a completely different 0.96

00:13:32.980 scenario altogether uh so it is ridiculous and not to mention in college i did have a gay man 0.74

00:13:38.880 that was one of my best friends and i wasn't allowed to bring him up to hang out he's not 0.89

00:13:42.860 looking at these women in the same sense it's completely ridiculous so what was it like for

00:13:48.800 you guys, those of you who joined onto this lawsuit, what was it like for you guys to find

00:13:54.800 each other? And how ultimately did you decide to take, I guess, the necessary steps that you did

00:14:00.440 to pursue action against Kappa Kappa Gamma as an organization? From the very start, when the

00:14:07.680 leadership could tell we were getting upset, they had told us that you cannot talk to any media

00:14:13.260 outlets. If they reach out to you, you are to send them to the president at the time. Um, and we were

00:14:18.820 like, okay, that's weird. It doesn't really say that, uh, anywhere in our membership, uh, policy,

00:14:25.300 right? Until one day, um, he put a news article out in the school paper, um, which really upset me.

00:14:34.400 And I was like, how can we, uh, how can we get our story out? Because that is wrong that he gets to

00:14:38.680 his story. And he's this breaking this glass ceiling as he used in that article. And Caroline

00:14:45.040 Downey actually reached out to me when she was a journalist at the time. And so I sat down and

00:14:51.760 did an interview with her. And in that interview, I ended up using he, him pronouns, right? I got

00:15:00.220 called to our disciplinary board and was lectured on not only doing that media, but using the wrong

00:15:07.380 pronouns. I got called to the basement and lectured about using the wrong pronouns. And I thought it

00:15:13.040 was so funny because, uh, when he went through formal rush and recruitment, I was one of the

00:15:17.980 members, uh, to sit down and talk with him. Maddie came up because she wanted to, you know,

00:15:23.080 see what was going on in the conversation. And when I was introducing him to Maddie,

00:15:27.440 I was using he, him pronouns. He never corrected me once. Uh, so that really confused me when I

00:15:32.320 I was pulled down to standards, not only for doing an interview with Caroline, but also using the

00:15:38.260 wrong pronouns that he didn't even care that I used. So that was interesting to me. But at the

00:15:44.320 end of the day, that interview was what caught the eye of Patsy. And she ended up getting in

00:15:49.900 contact with me and saying, hey, you have so much support behind you. If you want to do this,

00:15:54.000 you can really. Your uncle Dale is the undisputed king of hot takes. Buffalo, they're a lock because

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00:16:04.120 time stats right at your fingertips everything you need for game day is one tap away don't go

00:16:08.780 with hot takes go with the score bet 19 years or older Ontario only if you or somebody you know

00:16:14.560 has gambling concerns call connects Ontario 24 7 at 1-866-531-2600 Texas at 247-247 or chat with

00:16:20.500 us at www.connectsontario.ca standard messaging data rates may apply play the troops so that's

00:16:25.880 what I did, and we got lawyers, and here we are. That's so crazy. Yeah, I find that oftentimes

00:16:33.880 when you're able to just unapologetically confront the issue, I think especially when

00:16:40.200 we're talking about pronoun usage, I have found too that if you just say he, him, even to people

00:16:46.780 like Caitlyn Jenner, who I would otherwise consider like an ally in this fight, right,

00:16:51.500 I will call him Caitlyn, but I'm not going to call him a her. Caitlyn's become a friend of mine. And I say him and he to Caitlyn. And he's got no problem with it. He's like, look, I'm not going to police your speech. I prefer to go by her. But say what you want.

00:17:08.720 So, I find oftentimes when you are able to address it head-on like that, you won't get pushback, generally.

00:17:15.740 So, that's interesting to hear from you.

00:17:20.220 When you, I guess, were met with this disciplinary response, did your sorority get involved at any point?

00:17:28.520 Did they make you guys feel like if you didn't accept him being there, ultimately you could drop as the women?

00:17:37.100 Hannah, do you want to take this one?

00:17:38.380 you were a lot more involved in the beginning. Yeah, no, they definitely did. Me and Maddie

00:17:44.900 went to our president at the time. And she basically told us if you don't like it, your

00:17:50.300 values don't align with kappas and you can drop. And that left us absolutely speechless, as you

00:17:55.840 would imagine. Because when we joined, and we've said this a million times, we joined to be around

00:18:03.080 women. We joined to have that space. I was seven and a half hours from home. I needed that group

00:18:07.680 of women who were there. Um, and a house that I could go to when we lived in the dorms, co-ed 1.00

00:18:13.380 dorms. Um, obviously they had women's bathrooms up there, but there are co-ed dorms where you 0.95

00:18:18.020 didn't know who you're going to run into in the hallway. So going to Kappa and being around women

00:18:21.660 seven hours from home, that could became my safe space very quickly. And so being told that if you

00:18:27.780 don't like it, uh, you can drop, um, and not live in a house that I'd called a home for already a

00:18:33.120 year and a half was absolutely mind-boggling to me. So yeah, they weren't really receptive on

00:18:39.340 any of our opinions and basically did tell us to drop.

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00:19:46.920 link in the description, scan the QR code, or check the pin comment. We've alluded to the fact

00:19:52.900 that you guys, of course, sued Kappa Kappa Gamma. When you were there two years ago, we heard some

00:19:58.440 crazy things in that courtroom from the Kappa Kappa Gamma attorneys. But even still, it was 0.99

00:20:06.500 proven to be an unsuccessful suit, given the fact that the judges did not rule favorably in saying

00:20:13.840 that what Kappa Kappa Gamma did to you guys was ultimately fraudulent on behalf of what had been

00:20:19.780 advertised versus what you guys were actually a part of. So I guess when you got that first blow

00:20:26.860 from a federal court. How did you guys find the, I guess, strength and the wherewithal to continue

00:20:34.700 to push forward despite the unfavorable ruling? I guess a big push for me was I knew my senior

00:20:41.860 year that it was going to be a big decision for me to make and that I could graduate and walk away

00:20:45.600 from this and never have to think about it again. And I thought and prayed about it for weeks before

00:20:50.280 I did ultimately decide to sign my name. And I told myself, if you're going to do this, you're

00:20:54.480 going to see it through, you're going to finish it. And since the beginning of the whole thing,

00:20:59.020 I have been blessed with two beautiful nieces. And I am so proud to call myself an aunt. And I

00:21:04.620 would love for them to be able to have the same situations that we do. I mean, honestly, I plan

00:21:10.860 on fighting this until there is absolutely nothing else that I can do, which I don't know what the

00:21:15.520 options will be next. But I just knew that this was something that had to be done and has to keep

00:21:20.180 being seen through. And not to mention, I mean, now all the girls that were in the house have

00:21:24.300 graduated and moved on but they still got sisters in the house like biological sisters they've still

00:21:29.440 got friends in the house and I mean I've still got a cousin that's going through Greek life at

00:21:34.060 another school in a different chapter it's just important to protect this next generation so that

00:21:38.540 they don't have to keep fighting for this Hannah we were back in the courtroom this week what were

00:21:43.380 some of the things you heard inside that just kind of blew your mind whether it be from your own

00:21:50.480 attorney, from the Kappa attorney, from the judges, was there anything that was said that surprised

00:21:56.060 you? Well, for starters, um, that the historical definition of a woman isn't relevant anymore. Uh,

00:22:04.100 I don't know if there is a historical definition cause it, it's never changed. So that quite

00:22:09.300 honestly blew my mind. Um, that, and when Kappa's lawyer was asked if Artemis was the only

00:22:17.880 transgender member uh in the house or if this had been an issue before and she said no um that's a

00:22:25.240 lie we on our national leadership board there is a transgender man uh he full-on was in a fraternity

00:22:33.660 in college postgraduate decided he was a woman and now is in kappa as an alumni how that works

00:22:40.600 is beyond me um but i just want to put it out there that he's artemis is not the only one and

00:22:46.180 we're not the only ones with this problem. So there was that. Um, but I think Angela did a

00:22:51.480 great job representing our case. Um, when she was asked if a biological female transitioned to a

00:22:59.360 male, but also, uh, I'd be allowed in the women category. And she answered point blank. Yes. Uh,

00:23:07.480 that was also really funny to me because she's a woman that's excess, excess chromosomes. There's 1.00

00:23:13.700 nothing to it uh you're born a woman you're a female um and that's all we're here to say so

00:23:18.780 that was also pretty humorous to me too yeah i know i think the judge that asked that thought

00:23:24.020 it was going to be like some gotcha like oh you want someone who identifies as a man in your

00:23:28.820 sorority and yeah angela was like uh yeah because that's a woman that's the basis of why we're here 0.80

00:23:35.840 um and and you're so right the kappa attorney like the whole basis of their argument was

00:23:41.640 that it is reasonable to include men in the definition of women. I mean, we heard that 0.78

00:23:48.240 several times, is that's what a reasonable definition of a woman is. It can include men.

00:23:53.880 And what I was shocked about in listening in the courtroom was that 26 Panhellenic chapters,

00:24:01.300 if I can recall what was said, also think it's reasonable to include men. So it's not just kappa,

00:24:07.140 is it? No, you're correct. It's all of the sororities, unfortunately. And to my knowledge, 0.57

00:24:13.140 I don't think a single one of them has gone through the correct procedures to change the

00:24:16.540 bylaws to include the definition of a woman to include men. But all of them do have the wording 0.84

00:24:22.780 in there. And I know for a fact, ours did not go through the correct process. They just kind of

00:24:27.280 snuck it in there on the website. They claim in 2018, which I was still in high school. And when

00:24:33.540 I went through rush. No, I was not presented with the bylaws in front of me before I chose which

00:24:37.940 house I thought aligned best with my values. And so it's completely ridiculous for you to be 0.94

00:24:42.860 already in the sorority and then find out the rules changed, but you were just unaware and 0.78

00:24:47.740 you just have to be complacent with it. No, absolutely not. We are going to make some noise

00:24:51.440 about the situation. I guess knowing everything that you guys know now and having the experience

00:24:58.280 that you did, having to pursue legal action, if presented, let's go back again four years,

00:25:04.520 or I guess even longer than that now, when presented the opportunity to join CAPA, knowing

00:25:08.940 everything that you do now, would you still make the same decision that you did that ultimately

00:25:14.640 led you to where you are now? Had I known that men were allowed in the sorority that was supposed

00:25:19.840 to be an all-women's organization, absolutely not. I would not have joined this sorority.

00:25:25.920 And if I knew all of Greek life had this verbiage, then no, I probably wouldn't have even joined

00:25:30.380 a chapter at all, which is sad because I did learn a lot of really great professional skills

00:25:35.100 that has served me post-college in a very male-dominated field.

00:25:38.580 And I know Hannah can relate to that as well.

00:25:40.400 But I mean, it does offer such great resources for young women and a great network post-college.

00:25:46.700 So it is really sad to see that they're just changing the rules on you and there's nothing

00:25:50.640 you can do about it.

00:25:51.620 the correct procedure would have been, hey, if you want a sorority that allows men, you can go 0.96

00:25:56.720 create your own group. Do not take something that historically has always been this way and was

00:26:01.080 founded to support women and all of a sudden flip the script to support men. Hannah, what about you?

00:26:06.780 I couldn't have said it better. Yeah. Both my parents were in Greek life when they went through

00:26:12.340 college. So I grew up where we would travel and my dad would always know someone or my mom said,

00:26:18.500 hey, I was in a girl with her sorority over here. Let's go have dinner with her

00:26:21.800 on family vacations. And so growing up, that's something I always knew I wanted to do.

00:26:28.200 And yeah, had I known that men could have joined a house where I was there to meet

00:26:33.620 my lifelong best friends, thank God I still did. I mean, obviously I'm really close with

00:26:38.020 Allie and Maddie yet. We talk literally all the time, if you can't tell. But yeah, had I known

00:26:44.000 that this would have been a possibility. No, I would have definitely been more hesitant

00:26:48.320 to join any chapter. Private student loan debt in the US is around 300 billion with a B US dollars

00:26:57.820 and roughly 45 billion of that is considered distress. For a lot of people, that means one

00:27:02.680 thing, feeling stuck with no light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe the payments are too high. Maybe

00:27:08.080 a cosigner is still on the hook. Maybe every refinance option keeps ending in a no. That's

00:27:13.820 where why refi comes in why refi they help refinance distressed and defaulted private

00:27:18.660 student loans and they look beyond a traditional credit score they offer personalized solutions

00:27:23.520 flexible repayment options one-on-one support and in some cases even the chance to release

00:27:27.980 eligible co-signers from the loan your student loan debt does not and it should not define

00:27:33.120 your future if you have been carrying this burden and you don't know what to do next you don't know

00:27:37.920 what that next step is why refi could be the first real step towards relief you can see whether you

00:27:43.660 qualify at whyrefi.com or you can call today a better financial future could start with just

00:27:49.960 one conversation i can say um i'm weirdly enough i'm grateful you guys did for the the waves that

00:28:01.220 you guys have caused um in the best way possible and telling your story and sharing your experience

00:28:07.200 and alerting other women to the very real harms and dangers that are being put forward through

00:28:14.960 not just Kappa Kappa Gamma, but many sororities. Last thing for you, have you found it to be

00:28:20.240 worthwhile? I'll say. Definitely. It's been so rewarding. The people I've met through this

00:28:25.600 experience, it's an unfortunate reason to be here, but the people I've met through this experience,

00:28:32.380 like the alumni and just the personal growth I've gone through professionally and in my social life.

00:28:41.480 It's been unimaginable. Without the support of our alumni, A, we wouldn't be here and B,

00:28:47.360 I don't think I would be the person I am. And I said that at the court steps, but I really mean

00:28:52.740 that from the bottom of my heart. Actually, Sunday at Megan's house, a mom came up to me

00:28:59.220 and Maddie and she said, I want my little girls to grow up to be just like you. That hit my heart

00:29:04.560 so hard. I was like, oh my gosh, we're actually doing something here. Like legally we're doing

00:29:09.280 something, but that comment meant like the world to me. So yeah, absolutely. This has been an

00:29:14.180 experience that I wouldn't have changed for the world. I agree. I mean, looking back, I would do

00:29:18.740 it a hundred times over. It's definitely been an uphill battle and there's been a lot of very

00:29:23.880 negative things that have come out of this. But at the end of the day, there has been some really

00:29:29.220 good positives to encourage is contagious and us getting to share our story has encouraged others

00:29:34.000 to share theirs as well. Everybody just needs to keep standing up and speaking out on it. And

00:29:39.080 I will take all the hits I have to to give other women the courage to keep sharing their stories

00:29:44.180 as well. And also, I don't think it should be just a fight for the women. I mean, we need the

00:29:49.140 girl dads to be speaking out on this too. We need the fraternity gentlemen to be speaking out on

00:29:53.100 like they're doing in the WNBA.

00:29:55.040 I mean, it goes both ways.

00:29:56.940 We need the support of everyone. 0.96

00:29:58.060 It's not just for the girls to fight.

00:29:59.980 No, 100%.

00:30:00.800 And I love that point because so much of this burden 0.93

00:30:03.980 has fallen on, you know, the shoulders of women.

00:30:07.100 And I understand, right, ultimately it's our spaces

00:30:10.060 that are being infringed upon, but you're right.

00:30:13.520 We would be able to move the needle a whole lot faster,

00:30:16.920 more effectively if everyone joined in

00:30:20.460 and lent their voice to this fight.

00:30:23.100 um hannah last thing actually last thing now i know i've said that like three times

00:30:26.800 um your instagram caption today i think was spot on so just for clarity can you help kappa

00:30:34.840 in simple words understand or i guess answer the question of what is a woman it's an adult

00:30:42.280 human female it's three words i gotcha i should have tagged him in it honestly that would have

00:30:47.100 in hey yeah three words adult human female it's not that hard and i'm for president of the entire

00:30:57.720 kappa kappa gamma organization i'll turn that around real fast let me in there yeah right

00:31:03.280 exactly no thank you guys for joining um it means a lot we'll be following of course the case

00:31:09.520 and when we have a ruling we'll have to get you guys back on

00:31:13.100 sounds good thank you so much for having us thank you guys for watching the riley gain show you can

00:31:25.540 subscribe right here we have new episodes every single tuesday and friday at 10 a.m eastern time

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Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - September 18, 2026

A Man Joined Their Sorority. These Women Fought Back

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