00:04:55.400Besides our normal topics that we probably see, my feed is all about this, or it's like football memes, and then it's like political things that are going on that are usually in my feed. I don't understand how it's been given this much airtime, really, again, for such an ongoing thing. But I think the same is true when Lindsay Clancy was happening. I think I felt similarly, right? How does this one case have all this airtime and probably billions of people, I want to say, of views posting about this?
00:05:23.560yeah i know i and to just be very very clear and transparent you know from the beginning
00:05:30.720i mean let it be known that sexual violence is bad sexual assault is bad yes it is prevalent i
00:05:37.280would say on college campuses probably especially ivy league so i don't think either of us are here
00:05:42.780to say that you know to to you know do anything other than condemn those things but i think what
00:05:48.640we're getting to is, is this the Cornell seven and what we're seeing online? Is this that, um,
00:05:55.540we've seen this whole, like I am Jane Doe movement online and the response, um, largely from women
00:06:01.560following this similar to the whole, I am Lindsay Clancy thing to your point. Um, it was kind of,
00:06:07.540when I saw this, it was kind of giving black square in 2020 to me, it was almost like you
00:06:13.060had to immediately pledge allegiance to one side or the other but i think in a topic like this in
00:06:19.820a discussion like this with very serious allegations i think it's okay to not immediately
00:06:25.180take a side without knowing all of the circumstances while still saying as i just said sexual assault
00:06:32.260is bad and should be punishable to the fullest extent of the law based on um court proceedings
00:06:38.840and and how that's determined in a courtroom so what what did you kind of make of the whole i am
00:06:44.100jane doe movement yeah the first the fact that we even have to come on here and specify that we
00:06:50.160think sexual assault is bad and give that as a sort of uh disclaimer before we even dive into
00:06:55.400this conversation i think shows how far we've lost the plot on a lot of these things i've talked a
00:07:01.680lot on my platform of how i think the me too movement has failed in a lot of ways and i think
00:07:06.260this is Me Too 2.0 that's really going on here. I think, yeah, I do feel similarly to the George
00:07:13.640Floyd situation, right? This is looking to me like black square. I heard a lot of my friends0.92
00:07:19.540around New York who still follow some of those people with mind virus, as I like to say,
00:07:24.840complaining about how many infographics were posted on this situation. And I just was like,
00:07:30.080I'm so lucky I deleted my original Instagram and I've seen none of that. But I think that
00:07:35.340we can both sit here and know that we agree that sexual assault is bad, but also understand
00:07:40.940that we have a law that needs to investigate these things. And absolutely, if any one of those boys
00:07:46.900assaulted this girl and something was non-consensual, I would love to see him
00:07:51.820be punished for it properly by the law. And I don't think New York by any means is a state
00:07:57.700that's going to be lax on that, to be clear. And people are making that argument, trying to
00:08:02.260say that the punishments are not enough. I don't think that's true, but we need to let it be
00:08:06.760investigated the way that it needs to be done. And I think people on social media that don't
00:08:11.360have law degrees, that don't know these people coming on and saying that they know exactly what
00:08:15.120happened in that room. None of us can know that. None of us can know that. And to say that you are
00:08:19.800some expert on it, I think we've lost it. But again, same thing with Lindsay Clancy, same thing
00:08:24.480with a lot of these other true crime cases, these people get carried away in it. And then social
00:08:29.620media is so easily accessible. You have everyone's take on something they know nothing about.
00:08:36.120How much of the, like I am Jane Doe messengers, um, how much of that do you think is genuine
00:08:43.360concern? Because I would say these same people who, um, again, I don't want to overgeneralize
00:08:49.760or put everyone in a box, but I would say probably majority of these people who are claiming to be
00:08:55.280Jane Doe had nothing to say when Lakey and Riley was sexually assaulted and ultimately had her
00:09:02.680life taken by an illegal immigrant. I would bet that many of these people posting that I am Jane0.98
00:09:09.060Doe actually want wide open borders and have no problem with child predators, rapists, abusers,
00:09:18.200drug smugglers, cartel members, violent gang members being in this country. So how much of
00:09:24.420this do you think is genuine concern versus people who just want to be seen as on the right side of
00:09:30.820this issue yeah exactly that i mean there i don't see any of this outrage when other cases are
00:09:37.880happening right lake and riley huge one wildly ignored by a lot of these same people exactly
00:09:43.120that it's just the new you know virtue signaling event that you have to be part of same thing with
00:09:49.360the lindsey clancy same thing with the george floyd black square i mean we can we can go down
00:09:53.440the list of all these things they've been part of. And I think that my takeaway and something
00:09:58.600I've shared before is I was sexually assaulted when I was a teenager and I saw people's reactions
00:10:03.200to all of this. And I think looking at that situation, I found that a lot of the people
00:10:07.420who were screaming about the Me Too movement or screaming about this case, they weren't there to
00:10:12.540stand up when it was actually happening for people in their own life. And they weren't there to stand
00:10:17.340up for people who are victims when it doesn't match the circumstance they want. Lake and Riley
00:10:21.160is a wildly unpopular case for them to talk about because the circumstances that allow that to
00:10:26.940happen were under failed democrat leadership policies that said hey anyone come over the
00:10:32.180border and they they don't want to have that conversation so it's only when it matches the
00:10:36.420narrative and for whatever reason this one matches their narrative so they've decided even though you
00:10:41.600go look at the facts and i don't think it makes anyone look good i think i was reading through
00:10:46.660the initial report, which I'm sure you read through as well, probably everyone else on the
00:10:51.440internet. And I was just feeling like genuinely just disgusted. Like the entire situation, I was
00:10:56.580just like, this seems like a very crazy out of hand night that just leaves me with disgust. And
00:11:02.400I don't blame any of the people who are part of it for feeling disgust and wanting to investigate it.
00:11:07.520But again, we don't know what happened. And we don't, and it's not on us to have a decision.
00:11:12.860And so I think going back to probably your first question, I didn't really make a statement
00:13:49.900but i i think that part of this shows just culturally there are a lot of people who are
00:13:56.020very lost and confused and um doing things that are maybe not healthy for them and i i i feel for
00:14:03.560them but i don't think that every single time this happens you know a crime was committed and i think
00:14:09.420that's where a lot of people have struggled in particular from what i've seen again on the
00:14:13.600discourse on this issue is people are having a really hard time saying behavior that is not good
00:14:19.900or morally unacceptable is equivalent to being illegal. And I think those are two very different
00:14:25.940things. Like you and I can look at this situation and say, this is disgusting. This is immoral.
00:14:30.320This doesn't match our values. And a lot of people can agree with us, but that doesn't
00:14:33.980necessarily make it illegal. And I do think there is this fine line between those two things. And I
00:14:39.120think that's up to the law to investigate and i think what's totally what i've also found just
00:14:44.640on this is there's also people posting online trying to redefine what rape means right i don't
00:14:50.700know if you you use my feed has been crazy okay and there are people trying to redefine these
00:14:55.300things and i think that the last thing i will say is what this case does and honestly how it makes
00:14:58.980me feel is i think it's harder for actual victims to step forward because if someone something
00:15:04.540happens to someone they want to report their crime people are going to look at a case like
00:15:07.840this and be like, well, what if the girl is actually like this girl in this situation?
00:15:11.740I think it makes it so much harder for actual victims. No, yes, I agree with you. I actually
00:15:17.280saw this headline the other day from the New York Post that said New York state lawmaker pitches
00:15:20.800bill to give sex assault victims tuition reimbursement. So, I mean, what they're doing
00:15:26.620here is financially incentivizing rape allegations. And I think that's a really slippery slope. Like
00:15:33.700what could possibly go wrong when we financially incentivize accusing people of rape? So I agree.
00:15:42.160And I think the number that's reported, at least that I see, or at least is cited and quoted often
00:15:48.080is that one in four women are victims of sexual assault. Again, if that number is real, of course,
00:15:55.560that is, it's far too prevalent to feel comfortable with. I think there should be something done to,
00:16:00.900at least lower these numbers to prevent them altogether. But financially incentivizing rape0.99
00:16:07.000allegations, I think is a horrible idea. We are officially in October, which is crazy. I feel like
00:16:15.160I don't remember September at all. This is about the time of year when everyone starts getting
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00:17:54.780Yeah, exactly that. And a lot of these left leaning states have also gone through and
00:17:58.900changed the definitions of rape and made them a lot looser, like things that, you know, maybe
00:18:03.900previously have been only considered harassment, now classify as rape. And so you look at things
00:18:09.240like that. And I, I know there have been some places where like, they'll go look at the numbers
00:18:12.920and they'll be like, Oh my gosh, rape is up 5000%. And it's because they changed the definition of
00:18:17.440it. And I think that's something crime all the time in blue cities, too. That's what how like0.98
00:18:21.740gavin newsom is able to say like crime is going down well yeah when you can steal 900 out of a
00:18:26.960store and it not be a criminal offense or a punishable offense of course crime is going to
00:18:32.140go down so it is it's all semantics at that point and i think that's what we see riley with most of
00:18:38.620the things that we've dealt with in our political journey right like so you and i being in this
00:18:43.480situation it's okay they were trying to redefine what what it means to be women right that was what
00:18:49.460we were just the definition just kept changing and nobody knew what it was. And I think that is
00:18:54.420how the left has won on a lot of these issues is they're continuing to go through and redefine
00:19:00.940these terms that otherwise people commonly agreed to. And I think like, again, relating back to this
00:19:06.660case, when I first heard about the case, it was actually in my TikTok feed. And the way that I
00:19:11.420was explained and understood it from this TikTok was that this girl was completely unconscious
00:19:15.280and there were seven hours and everyone just went in and raped her that is how it was
00:19:19.740explained to me first in this tiktok that showed up in my feed and then we go to uncover the case
00:19:24.300and it's well actually it involves three different threesomes at various different people at
00:19:30.260different hours with whatever and i was like okay that's a very different story and so part of it is
00:19:34.560just re continuously redefining facts what words mean and that's how they won because you say oh
00:19:41.680my gosh, rape is bad, which we both agree with. But then it's, oh, our definition of what that
00:19:46.080word actually means is very different than what you and I think it means. Yeah. And now we're
00:19:51.440seeing where, I mean, even the boys or the men who were involved and accused in this,
00:19:57.320they were also like, I mean, belligerent, unconscious, if you will. They don't remember
00:20:03.540much of it from that night. So I saw where one of the boys is actually accusing the girl of raping
00:20:09.100him um which i think you know leads to the question of we have seen this and i don't want
00:20:15.740to say that's what this is because again let that be for the courts to decide but let's look at
00:20:19.600the duke lacrosse situation where there was a woman who falsely accused these men of of rape
00:20:26.300um i feel like there should be if there is a fabricated sexual assault allegation i feel like
00:20:33.880there should be a real consequence for the person who, who, you know, accuses the, the, the men
00:20:42.380oftentimes in these situations. I don't know what it should be, but it should be something that is
00:20:48.320a criminal offense to falsely accuse someone of a, of a sexual allegation. Um, because at the end of
00:20:53.280the day, again, let's not even look at this because who knows the, the reality of the situation at
00:20:58.840this point, but the Duke lacrosse case, those boys, their lives were essentially ruined. Their
00:21:03.400reputations were ruined. Career opportunities, friendships, personal relationships, they lost
00:21:09.440out on so much over a totally fabricated allegation. So are you kind of on the same page that there
00:21:15.580should be some real recourse if there's something that is totally made up and as serious as a sexual
00:21:21.620assault allegation? Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a good way to, you know, prevent people
00:21:27.300from trying to do this if it's not true. And again, I think it's okay also to have the courts
00:21:32.460investigate things and have things come out and say okay like it's not really clear what happened
00:21:36.600here i think that's that's what happens in a lot of the times in these cases and i think that that's
00:21:40.540unfortunate but sometimes it is the nature that it goes on to but i think on top of that i do think
00:21:46.260there needs to be a better job of sort of keeping these names hidden i mean there's been some people
00:21:53.160going around on twitter but there's no real confirmation that that's the girl that was
00:21:57.160involved in this thing that hasn't i think it's weird there are so many people who are so desperate
00:22:00.960to find out who this girl is and yeah i mean i've seen the girl who people are are believing it to
00:22:08.300be um the internet jumps on things very quickly though so who knows if that's really her but it
00:22:14.060is kind of odd people are so desperate to to find out who she is electrolyte brands are everywhere
00:22:21.200so i get the skepticism but relight stood out to me because it starts with the source um it's made
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00:23:19.380hydrate using code hydrate, or you can click the link in the description, scan the QR code,
00:23:23.620or check the pin comment yeah but with that we know exactly who the boys are the student newspaper
00:23:31.520published the names of the boys and so i think what again my takeaway from this and i was talking
00:23:36.460to one of my male friends about this actually and i was like okay like imagine i mean maybe not this
00:23:41.920situation because this is very very absurd and i don't really know anyone who's been involved with
00:23:46.400like this whatever was happening in this fraternity house a couple years ago but i was like
00:23:53.000your name is already released and you can find out that you know they find you that you didn't
00:23:58.120do anything your name's already out there and back to the duke case the same thing right the
00:24:02.460guy's names were out in the public you can go you and i can go search right now about those three
00:24:07.420men who were involved and were charged by this woman who turned out to be false and all of that
00:24:13.500but their names are already out there and i think that that is a problem with these cases that they
00:24:19.740just have released people's names and i think that that's the bigger issue even if you are found
00:24:23.960innocent your name is already out there your reputation's already been ruined and i i think
00:24:29.920that that that i don't know how the law can fix that i don't know how they can make it better but
00:24:33.740i think that that is an aspect of it that they should probably crack down on too just like trying
00:24:37.320to keep these people's names out of it because again whatever comes of this case riley those
00:24:41.480seven guys names are everywhere and their faces are everywhere i don't know what you would i i
00:24:45.360think you'd have to move out of the country i truly don't see we've seen where some of them
00:24:49.780allegedly are i guess one of the guys is in dubai right now there's another guy who's somewhere else
00:24:55.380overseas so i mean they literally are fleeing because you have to imagine i mean their reputations
00:25:01.360are are shot shot absolutely shot and to be clear if one of them or a couple of them or however many
00:25:07.440of them did do something wrong they deserve to have a bad reputation that is fully deserved but
00:25:12.880again there have been nothing that has been done to prove that of any of the seven of them and to
00:25:17.020think that their lives are already ruined and damaged by this no matter what ends up happening
00:25:21.440i think is is just uh wildly wrong and i think part of it is is the social media craze and all
00:25:27.960these sort of internet sleuths jumping on making accusations for people that they don't know that
00:25:33.160they've never met and that they've never been part of this situation i i that is the part i think more
00:25:38.080than anything i don't know how you would fix that but i think is is the most unfair like there needs
00:25:43.540to be and relating actually back did you see that people were harassing patrick clancy running
00:25:50.020the marathon in chicago i don't know if you saw that the same thing the court already like he's
00:25:56.740not he's not been on trial the police would have put him on trial if there was evidence for it
00:26:00.560there are random people online that are still harassing this man around here in new york where
00:26:05.380i live and he just apparently ran the chicago marathon this past weekend and people were
00:26:08.700sending him messages like accusing him of things calling him names on his chicago marathon like
00:26:16.140runner thing on his bib number whatever it just says it's just insane and to the lindsey clancy
00:26:24.580point which preface i don't think this way but it feels pertinent to make the comparison
00:26:30.820all the people who are saying i am lindsey clancy who um you know stood with her because you know
00:26:36.740she could have had and likely did have these hormonal fluctuations postpartum depression
00:26:41.620um yada yada yada postpartum psychosis okay what if that case was being made for the the men in the
00:26:49.220cornell 7 case oh well what if they just have really high testosterone levels what if they
00:26:54.700couldn't help themselves it was primal it was instinctual that they couldn't help it they were0.75
00:27:00.240out of their right mind, do we realize how ridiculous that sounds? Again, I don't think0.63
00:27:05.300that way, but I think it's important to kind of make that connection and highlight the hypocrisy
00:27:10.860that we are seeing in talking about justice and what actually happened in these cases
00:27:17.700and what we're blaming our actions on. Again, I'm not saying pertaining to the Lindsay Clancy case,
00:27:24.800Again, let the courts decide. I will say I feel entirely confident. And I say emphatically that she did kill her children because that's not what being is what is being disputed. Her lawyer only recently has made that case because he has seen the TikTok sleuths, to your point, online saying, what if she actually didn't do it? That was never disputed in the initial trial.
00:27:47.880So I feel confident saying she did murder her three kids. That's that's different when making that claim here. But otherwise, let the courts play it out. But I feel like it's important to make that distinction here.
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00:28:58.520just one conversation. Kind of wrapping it up here and maybe ending constructively,
00:29:05.160what do you think are things that parents should teach both their sons and their daughters
00:29:10.440respectively when it comes to, I mean, being a young adult in the real world, maybe going off
00:29:17.020to college for the first time? How should, what are some of the messages that parents should
00:29:20.840instill in both their daughters and their sons? Yeah, well, I think the first is the quality of
00:29:27.280being honest and being real with yourself. I think there's a lot of coddling. And I think
00:29:31.980maybe what I see from this is a lot of kids who are either told, like, you can always get what
00:29:36.140you want. You know, it's OK if you lie because you feel like it. I think that's something I sort
00:29:42.220of see from a lot of people I've grown to know and that are in our age range. And it's unfortunate.
00:29:47.840But I think also that you're accountable for your own actions. And I think also, finally,
00:29:52.560you are going to make mistakes i can't tell you the number of things like not pertaining to
00:29:58.240anything that happened over there but that i've i've just in my in college in life just felt
00:30:03.780regret about or messed up there were so many things in like my swimming career that i i was
00:30:08.020just so unhappy with even pre you know a man being put on my team but i had to learn that it's okay
00:30:14.760to accept responsibility for those things and it's okay to have regrets and it's okay to have things
00:30:20.100go differently than you would have wished. But that doesn't mean that you're not accountable
00:30:23.500for your own actions. And that doesn't mean that you're a bad person. And I think that is something
00:30:28.300I see people struggle with. But I do think social media is a really big part of it. And I don't know
00:30:33.920how we crack down on that. But maybe don't believe everything that you see online without
00:30:40.180jumping to your own conclusions. I think it's important to read the facts for yourself and
00:30:44.300make your own decisions, independent of what your favorite online creator is telling you.
00:30:48.360No, I agree. Yeah, I think that's good. You're right. It's increasingly hard in today's world, especially on the social media front. But it is important because it's ultimately how we perceive reality in real life.
00:31:03.960And what I have come to learn, especially over the past year, I mean, across the board, that there are several reasons why I really feel strongly about this now, saying that social media is not indicative of real life, even kind of like the Candace Owens side of things, where she accuses Erica Kirk and everyone else under the sun, other than Tyler Robinson, of murdering Charlie and seeing people online.
00:31:28.280you would feel like it's a pretty big portion of society actually feels this way if you only read
00:31:32.660comments online. But when you remove yourself from that and you talk to real people who aren't
00:31:37.480chronically online, you realize that is such a fringe belief. Whatever. Anyways, again, let the
00:31:45.100courts decide. They're the ones with the evidence, not Candace Owens. So I'm with you. Online isn't
00:31:52.380real. Teach your sons to respect women. Hold your daughters to a higher moral standard. Yeah, I0.99
00:31:58.180i'm right there with you but i appreciate you paula thanks for coming on and chatting all
00:32:03.080things gordon l7 thank you for having me today thank you guys for watching the riley gain show
00:32:13.320you can subscribe right here we have new episodes every single tuesday and friday at 10 a.m eastern
00:32:18.760time and we are covering everything from pop culture to politics to deep dives to motherhood
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