Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - August 21, 2026


XXXY Founder Jen Sey on Sophie Cunningham & The Never Ending WNBA Culture War


Episode Stats


Length

27 minutes

Words per minute

184.44

Word count

5,076

Sentence count

93


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.480 Recently, our company's softball team lost the big game by one run.
00:00:04.800 Then Dale tried to console us with the quote,
00:00:07.200 winning isn't everything.
00:00:09.060 Well, Dale and I are very different.
00:00:12.740 I get early payout from Bet365.
00:00:14.680 If my team goes up big, I get paid out instantly,
00:00:17.480 even if they blow the lead later.
00:00:19.540 Sound familiar, Dale?
00:00:21.280 Thanks, Bet365.
00:00:22.920 Must be 19 or older, Ontario only.
00:00:24.420 Please play responsibly.
00:00:25.240 If you have questions or concerns about your gambling
00:00:26.660 or the gambling of someone close to you,
00:00:27.720 please go to connexontario.ca and see supply.
00:00:30.000 i want to give you a second to talk about the brand my goal was to create a brand that actually
00:00:40.340 really stands up for women not pretend you know that doesn't pretend to i looked at all the major
00:00:45.520 athletic brands and they make money off of pretending to champion women but nike in
00:00:49.700 particular treats women you know even outside of this issue with astonishing disregard and i just
00:00:55.260 felt like we deserve that women deserve that a brand that doesn't just use them to make money
00:01:00.660 but will stand with female athletes when it's when it's hard so that that's why i wanted to and i
00:01:05.740 think brands change culture and so i've been pushing to change the culture and waiting for
00:01:11.380 that like inflection point when the culture when it changes because we you and i know 75 percent
00:01:18.320 approximately americans in an anonymous poll will say they stand up uh for the protection of them
00:01:23.120 in sports but it doesn't feel like that when you're out here talking about it it feels because
00:01:27.480 a lot of those people are silent and what has happened with sophie cunningham commenting and
00:01:33.820 becoming a very popular player in the league is that it's become normal for the 75 to say and you
00:01:41.500 and i you know we're at a minneapolis gang together you were getting high fives people
00:01:45.800 wanted photos people were very open about the fact that they supported both of us and the work that
00:01:51.680 we're doing and the messages so people are not afraid anymore it's like there's just been this
00:01:56.380 ignition in the culture and no one's afraid to speak common sense anymore is how i would say
00:02:01.960 and they're not afraid to wear the t-shirt anymore we've you've come on before we've talked about
00:02:06.860 nike and kind of there may be cryptic messaging how they claim to stand for women yet in reality
00:02:13.140 and to anyone who who's been dialed in on the issue and as you say bigger than just this issue
00:02:19.040 of men and women's sports and men pretending to be women across the board their their uh defense
00:02:24.500 of women this is dick's sporting goods and i think there's some kind of cryptic messaging here this
00:02:30.500 was amidst all of the the initial sophie cunningham when she came out in that espn article
00:02:35.060 and it it made her out to be this transphobe right crazy a professional women's athlete agrees and
00:02:43.140 thinks that only women should be playing in women's sports at the professional level or any level for
00:02:47.960 that matter, novel concept. Well, amidst all of that, Dick's Sporting Goods comes out and says
00:02:52.700 this. What do you make of this advertisement from Dick's Sporting Goods? I mean, the color scheme
00:03:00.420 alone is light blue and light pink, which you might say, oh, those are just pastels. But I'm
00:03:06.220 sorry. In the midst of this moment where people are talking about the protection of women's sports,
00:03:12.700 which I do want to clarify something. I know you know this, but this is not about transgender
00:03:17.440 people in sports this is about men in women's sports um there are players and have been players
00:03:23.880 in the wmba that identify as non-binary and trans they are women we don't care do we we don't care
00:03:33.520 that's fine it's totally fine so this is about men uh everybody wants to make it about trans
00:03:39.460 but this is about men in the women's league to me when i saw that i was like they're trying to say
00:03:45.820 it without saying it they're trying to send like a secret bat signal hey we're on the sort of lefty
00:03:51.080 side we're on the pro-trans side we're on the trans inclusion side i'll put trans in quotes
00:03:57.540 because you know because um so i i think it's weak sauce i'll say like if you're gonna say it
00:04:05.240 then say it full-throatedly if you're gonna say we believe trans women are women and they should
00:04:09.900 be able to compete in men's courts then at least say it or sorry in women's courts at least say it
00:04:14.480 they sort of send a secret message that they could claim that's not what they are saying
00:04:20.580 but get the credit from the woke crowd if you see what i mean and i would just say
00:04:26.380 the corporate institutions are so far behind and i include the wnba in that i include the the the
00:04:34.720 teams themselves because these are corporations these are companies um and i would argue most
00:04:40.320 of corporate america they are still mired in 2020 thinking and the culture has moved on and they need
00:04:45.960 to get with the program and i think one important point i would like to make in the in the kind of
00:04:51.040 haze of the last three weeks and this thing blowing up in the culture the wta announced that
00:04:58.240 they would test for sex every major player every high-ranked player in women's tennis supported it
00:05:05.020 and there's been no fanfare it they did it they did the right thing it passed without notice like
00:05:10.560 if the wmba any sense they would do the same thing they'd get a minute of pushback and that
00:05:15.240 would be done and they would have done the right thing but they won't do it because their agenda
00:05:19.260 has nothing to do with basketball it has to do with politics yeah i i love seeing the tweets
00:05:25.000 online that's you know highlight that the w in wmba for virtually all of of its history since
00:05:33.420 its inception has uh been understood to stand for women and now people are joking that the w stands
00:05:38.980 for woke and to your point about women's tennis and what we're seeing happening there uh you've
00:05:44.920 got women like coco goff who i've long admired i can't imagine she is maga or a trump supporter or
00:05:52.060 even probably means conservative by any stretch of the imagination but even still she she came out
00:05:58.720 with a pretty you know on the fence type statement actually is very similar to what sophie said i
00:06:04.800 think maybe some more buzzwords in there using things like i want to respect their identity
00:06:09.820 and yeah you know all the things that that come with what a traditional lefty would say here but
00:06:14.600 spoken like a a true high-level female athlete she acknowledges that fairness matters and it's
00:06:20.380 bodies that play sports not identities and i haven't seen a ton of pushback uh that coco goff
00:06:27.000 received uh sorry go ahead the most i would say hers was the most like trying to straddle that
00:06:35.360 statement and it was left coded because you said it she said all the words but she still said
00:06:40.780 that she i don't remember exactly how she said it you probably do but she still was fine with
00:06:46.340 the testing because fairness matters she still said it so and hers was like i said the most
00:06:51.800 on the fence everyone else was like yeah of course we need to keep tennis fair back to the corporate
00:06:57.160 side of things and the individual teams and the wmba or maybe the arena security or whoever these
00:07:04.020 you know mysterious figures are who are uh the ones on the ground advocating for uh the discrimination
00:07:12.920 quite frankly that we saw against anna lee for wearing the shirt that you and i saw when being
00:07:17.760 told to put down the sign that said sophie comma thank you signed a girl mom uh now we have another
00:07:23.100 example this was in atlanta i think we have a clip of a little girl i say little girl a young
00:07:29.480 girl named annie and her mom let's play it really quick and we were we were made to cover up our xx
00:07:37.960 xy shirts at this game wait are you serious yes they gave us t-shirts during overtime
00:07:47.360 and told us we had to leave
00:07:50.040 and this is for the girl
00:07:50.940 or cover our shirts up
00:07:53.640 and we did nothing
00:07:54.980 like we were not
00:07:56.020 we were just sitting there
00:07:57.560 I didn't make signs
00:07:59.160 I wanted to make signs
00:08:00.440 but I didn't
00:08:01.340 I did nothing
00:08:02.300 they made us put our shirts on
00:08:03.660 I did notice during the game
00:08:04.880 on the Jumbotron
00:08:05.620 they put up a woman
00:08:06.660 wearing a shirt
00:08:07.300 that said protect trans rights
00:08:08.900 or something
00:08:09.340 she was the one who told us
00:08:10.960 because she was made
00:08:11.660 to zip up her jacket
00:08:12.620 it's almost like
00:08:13.520 the message was made
00:08:14.280 and they said now zip it up
00:08:15.300 to make it seem like
00:08:16.180 they're consistent
00:08:16.720 but they never were yeah no okay now jen our experience at the minneapolis game and just
00:08:25.480 talking about what we saw specifically on the jumbotron it was almost as if you they wouldn't
00:08:31.060 put you on the jumbotron unless you were draped in some sort of trans pride flag wearing your
00:08:38.140 your trans paraphernalia what do you make of this uh this woman who was made to cover her xxxy
00:08:44.300 athletics shirt as the XXXY athletics founder? I think there is a coordinated effort. You and
00:08:51.360 I observed it on the ground. I mean, there could be a camera right in front of us for the jumbotron
00:08:55.540 and they would like suddenly jump over us because we were sitting right on the floor. So, you know,
00:09:00.100 whether or not the memo went out, it's in the ether in the organization that this is our point
00:09:06.520 of view. You know, we are pro all the letters, but that is what is in the ether in the organization.
00:09:12.440 they don't even need to give the people guidance um so they're trying to construct a narrative that
00:09:18.300 is not factual they are trying to construct a narrative that everyone in the arena is wearing
00:09:22.640 a trans shirt that's what you see on the broadcast that's what you see on the jumbotron and they're
00:09:26.800 trying to pretend that people like you and me and all the democrat women who show up at these
00:09:31.920 pep rallies that we have that they don't exist they're trying to pretend that they all exist
00:09:36.120 but they can't really do it like there's too many of us now um and they just keep stepping on it
00:09:41.400 You named three instances at this point where the Lee has put this issue and this brand at the center of this conversation, at the center of the cultural conversation in their attempt to censor.
00:09:56.480 And every time they try to censor us, we gain more followers and fans and the movement grows bigger.
00:10:03.200 It's like, Riley, they're making my job too easy right now.
00:10:06.360 I've got to tell you, it's like, do it again.
00:10:08.640 Do it again.
00:10:09.500 Censor just no one else.
00:10:10.560 because here's what happens when that happens no one thinks that mom is the bad guy everyone knows
00:10:16.720 the censors are the bad guys everyone knows that's a nice mom who went to a game with her daughter
00:10:21.300 and sat there quietly to cheer for the indiana fever and for sophie kingham and she was told to
00:10:26.620 cover up now i think there's a good point made in the video um by the videographer that um
00:10:33.500 they there are rumors i don't know if it's true that other people were told to cover up too
00:10:39.520 meaning people with pro trans shirts first of all i saw them all over the tv broadcast so
00:10:43.700 i don't really think that's i don't think i don't buy it the the other thing is i think that's the
00:10:49.560 story that wma is now propagating so that they can say that they were being fair i'm sorry riley
00:10:57.060 you and i both know if somebody with a trans kids blonde shirt was there and was told to cover up
00:11:03.000 that person would be on every cnn show all day long 100 where is she or they where is this
00:11:09.240 person where is they them no it is so true no it's so true and maybe it's because we were in
00:11:19.040 minneapolis with with just you know my personal experience being there on the ground a wmba game
00:11:24.220 there were far too many people wearing trans kids belongs-esque shirts to even have them cover them
00:11:32.700 up you would have security people going up to like it felt like which i know this is an exaggeration
00:11:37.980 but it felt like half the stadium and again just just based on what we heard every time Sophie was
00:11:43.540 on the court every time she was subbed in every time she touched the ball she was booed uh so
00:11:49.280 it's yeah it's true I was in Chicago after we were together in Minneapolis or where is that where
00:11:57.160 yes I was at a game in Chicago they're all like blending together now and this belt difference
00:12:02.800 i would say when she came on the floor it was a mix of booze and cheers and the cheers were
00:12:09.180 almost lower so this is what i mean by the culture is changing in real time if you watch on tv
00:12:16.360 it it's not so clear that she's being booed anymore and as she said that's it that's the
00:12:22.580 game right you get booed some people love you some people hate you it's fine i mean she's so
00:12:26.560 poised about all of this and i think she's right about all of it uh but i i mean when i was on
00:12:32.680 the ground in Chicago. There were a ton of indie fans there. She got a lot of cheer. Um, when she
00:12:39.620 was, you know, I was there when she got strangled by, uh, Dijonette Carrington. Um, and the Dijonette
00:12:48.180 was definitely booed in that moment. Not, not Sophie. Um, so I think it's shifting. I don't
00:12:55.940 know. We'll see. I'm going to the New York game this weekend. That could be very different. That
00:13:00.220 I could be a hostile crowd, you know, directing bad mojo at me and I'm ready for that.
00:13:05.780 That's fine.
00:13:06.780 But I do think that the culture is shifting in real time.
00:13:09.320 And I think the league and the leadership in the league and for all the teams is way
00:13:12.760 behind and they think they can do their strong learn tactics that have worked for the last
00:13:17.460 10 years and it doesn't work anymore because we're all unleashed and we're confident and
00:13:22.020 we're standing together across party lines.
00:13:24.540 We're all together and we're nice.
00:13:26.940 we're like middle-aged moms and teenage girls and nobody thinks the censors are the good guys
00:13:32.140 anymore you know they they can't get they think they can do their same strong arm tactics and
00:13:37.100 the tighter they hold to it the more they are just making themselves look like clowns it is so true
00:13:43.360 and being at these rallies at this these wmba games but but these title nine rallies and and
00:13:50.420 things that have occurred over the past five years just being there on the ground it is really cool
00:13:54.580 to notice that there is no specific demographic that is advocating for for the things that you
00:14:01.300 and i are saying and most people across america are saying you have old you have young you have
00:14:06.160 black you have white you have gay you have straight you have of course conservatives or
00:14:10.720 republicans but to the point that you made it's been super cool and probably most powerful
00:14:15.540 to see people who you know would would maybe traditionally and have lifelong called themselves
00:14:23.080 liberals uh to be there on the ground advocating for sex-based protections for women democrats for
00:14:30.540 common sense i don't know it's it's really cool to see that we actually have that clip that you're
00:14:35.600 referring to in that post-game presser of sophie cunningham we're going to play it really quick
00:14:40.820 i want to shout out the the tempo crowd in the city i think we've had so much fun it's my first
00:14:46.040 time being in canada it's a lot of our first times being in canada um but the crowd was absolutely
00:14:50.220 amazing and you know i think that's what sports is all about you're gonna get booze you're gonna
00:14:53.240 get cheers but just the fact that they're so passionate they're loud and they're putting on
00:14:56.760 for the city i think it's amazing so shout out to you guys for coming out supporting
00:14:59.680 this is an arena that booed her uh perpetually and very loudly but even still she rises like
00:15:07.860 with grace and kindness they'll call her all these mean names but based on that clip alone
00:15:12.620 i mean you can't tell me she's not handling this with with more grace in her pinky than the other
00:15:18.020 side seems to have in their entire being she just is a joy to watch she's having fun out there
00:15:24.320 playing she has fun in the pressers she isn't dour and angry even though she's the one getting
00:15:30.460 booed i mean how isn't this what they want isn't this what you want in the sport like she makes me
00:15:35.460 want to watch it because she's fun to watch it's it's awesome i love it she she makes me i mean
00:15:43.060 the whole team is frankly quite fun to watch you know there's a there's a ton of great players on
00:15:48.800 the team there's alia boston and there's kelsey mitchell who i think is like ranked number two
00:15:52.740 in the whole league for scoring right now um and there's sophie with her three pointers and she's
00:15:59.080 like got one of the highest percentages in the league for three pointers and she's having a
00:16:03.160 great time and she's doing the three and she's sticking out her tongue and she's poised and
00:16:07.720 graceful and i think it's so great for the league and i think the commissioner be fired because this
00:16:14.960 is like business malpractice right now and then you have the coach of the fever getting angry and
00:16:21.060 cursing at everybody and telling everybody to go to hell like what is going on model this kind
00:16:26.800 behavior the only one modeling it is her is sophie right now uh the commissioner i would say is just
00:16:33.360 demonstrating a failed leadership you know in many ways not just on um this issue she's failing to
00:16:40.160 lead with clark who people are showing up for to watch people are buying tickets she's uh failing
00:16:46.480 to send a clear message that these two women can't be attacked on the court you know you need to make
00:16:52.120 the calls rest even with like the fixed game betting like i think we all just forgot that but
00:16:58.060 oh that was bad and page buchers like that i would believe is a clear violation that should
00:17:04.140 come back on the wmba commissioner um and even quite frankly i think the nba commissioner
00:17:09.700 at this point should have to answer for the wmba commissioner based on how much they subsidize them
00:17:14.980 every single year um but we haven't seen that it feels like such a like a an unseriously which is
00:17:22.460 really quite tragic and when i say that people oftentimes think like you're mocking women's
00:17:26.840 sports and the most highest level but but it's these people that are mocking women's sports
00:17:32.240 and we're we're calling out the mockery that that they are making you know what i'm saying
00:17:38.260 i feel like an unserious league it feels like a parody and i think when you have people like
00:17:43.340 ns freedom who is like hilarious and genius i think this is a genius way to make the wmba
00:17:51.060 answer for what their policy really is what really is a woman they've been in these these meetings
00:17:57.580 these very performative meetings i can just picture it right like you have all of these
00:18:01.520 grown adults sitting around a conference table having a discussion about what a woman is like
00:18:05.660 i wish i could so badly be a fly on the wall in these meetings it's them who have made the league
00:18:12.400 of parody of course not the athletes um yes to your point about sophie and just the kind of
00:18:19.280 athlete that she is the kind of person that she is just based on what we've seen online
00:18:23.220 you can see how people perceive her based on her teammates reaction to her on the court warming up
00:18:30.580 in the locker room social media interactions they all love her and they all say look
00:18:34.540 again people with I was actually looking one of her teammates posted something I clicked on the
00:18:39.900 teammates profile says she her in the bio so you can't imagine that someone with the pronouns in
00:18:46.300 the bio is probably a trump supporter again not not to assume that sophie is i don't want to make
00:18:51.040 that assumption um although maybe it's fair to assume i don't know either way you have to imagine
00:18:56.620 that her and sophie probably don't agree politically or culturally or socially on many
00:19:01.440 things but even still uh michaela thompson said look that's my girl whatever she goes for um we
00:19:07.720 love her she's got our back i got her back uh so her teammates love her i think that speaks a lot
00:19:11.800 about her but it's not just her on the court that is fun and lively we've got one more clip i want
00:19:17.220 to show you this is sophie cunningham i think a couple nights before her 30th birthday at the bar
00:19:22.940 singing toby keith
00:19:41.800 like how could you not just love her i know it's like recently our company softball team
00:19:53.500 lost the big game by one run then dale tried to console us with the quote winning isn't everything
00:19:59.560 well dale and i are very different i get early payout from bet365 if my team goes up big i get
00:20:07.580 Paid out instantly, even if they blow the lead later.
00:20:10.580 Sound familiar, Dale?
00:20:12.400 Thanks, Bet365.
00:20:14.000 Must be 19 or older, Ontario only.
00:20:15.520 Please play responsibly.
00:20:16.340 If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you,
00:20:18.860 please go to connexontario.ca, TNC Supply.
00:20:21.940 She's making it fun to watch.
00:20:23.640 I mean, just like, you know, did you watch Alyssa Liu and the Olympics and skating gold?
00:20:28.200 I mean, it was glorious.
00:20:29.520 She just was having the best time out there.
00:20:32.700 This is what we want.
00:20:34.040 You know, the left has become so dour.
00:20:36.260 again I don't want to assume what Sophie is or what but like everything has become so political
00:20:41.220 for them you go to Coachella and you get a lecture about freeing Palestine it's like just play the
00:20:46.100 music just play the music and so to see someone who is just reveling in her achievements in the
00:20:53.340 love of the game and having fun off the court as well it just makes the it should be fun this
00:20:58.340 sports and there's no reason you know the story you just described that's my girl like what we
00:21:05.040 all can sit together i sat next to you know two uh chicago fans in chicago we were laughing and
00:21:12.260 we were joking the whole time i was rooting for the fever i had my shirt off they didn't care
00:21:16.460 they bought me a beer they brought me snacks i mean we can all sit together everyone can wear
00:21:22.340 their shirt it doesn't have to matter we can still have fun watching the game yeah you know what i
00:21:27.800 love that um and it's true about sophie like i i don't think we've seen a clip of her yet where
00:21:34.580 she's not smiling and where she's not um joyous and happy even amidst kind of the chaos and the
00:21:41.000 anger and the vitriol and the negativity that's inevitably come her way she's still smiling and
00:21:46.760 the people who don't like her uh they always seem miserable and i think that in and of itself is
00:21:52.900 very telling so jen yeah let people know where they can find the shirt that you're wearing the
00:21:57.960 shirt that annalee was wearing the shirt that the mom uh who was told she couldn't wear that shirt
00:22:03.460 at the Fever game and Atlanta was wearing.
00:22:05.860 Where can people find it?
00:22:07.040 You can find it at xx-xyathletics.com.
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00:23:36.000 qr code on your screen or you can check the pin comment and stuff louie has um several i mean
00:23:44.540 basically actually we were kind of joking the other day his whole wardrobe essentially is xx xy
00:23:49.820 athletics um but his favorite shirt is the shirt that says girl dad um he wears that shirt very
00:23:55.940 proudly so oh i love it i love that well thank you this is i am not tired of this topic i am
00:24:01.900 having so much fun and i'm willing to bet there could be news coming out of this new york game
00:24:08.960 on saturday we'll see what happens that feels like a teaser we've seen where people have said
00:24:15.020 like oh jen say is organizing this like pretty trusted voices even in the conservative movement
00:24:21.980 who have said oh jen is organizing this because it's it's politically expedient and even the
00:24:27.700 other day actually i was watching on um hannity of course on fox news where stephen a smith was
00:24:33.060 on and he says look republicans they just like this issue because you can capitalize on it
00:24:36.920 and i will say as an athlete myself and as someone who who really means it when we say
00:24:41.720 protect women's sports because for me it's not just a talking point or a slogan like i really
00:24:47.320 mean it i understand the sentiment of getting tired of this this issue and tired that it's
00:24:52.420 being capitalized on because in the grand scheme of things maybe it is minute but so long as the
00:24:57.920 other side can't say what a woman is i think we should we should continue to demand that they
00:25:04.540 answer to it you know it's not us that's creating this issue no it's us responding to their failures
00:25:09.480 if the wnba said tomorrow we were wrong we need to draw a clear boundary starting in the 2027
00:25:16.400 season we will test for sex it would all go away we would stop talking about it entirely it's it's
00:25:22.240 and and i know some argue that it's minute mostly on the left i i i don't think it is i think one
00:25:29.840 you and i agree on this there are there are there have been thousands of opportunities stolen from
00:25:35.520 girls and women because of males competing in sports but for me it's almost philosophically
00:25:40.460 bigger than that because if they can get they can get at the ideologues and get us to say
00:25:47.020 sure if you say you're a woman you are what won't we believe 100 well jen you're the best thank you
00:25:53.540 we'll all be watching the game this weekend waiting for the wmba to step in the next steaming pile of
00:26:00.580 crap recently our company softball team lost the big game by one run then dale tried to console
00:26:08.040 us with the quote, winning isn't everything. Well, Dale and I are very different. I get early
00:26:15.140 payout from Bet365. If my team goes up big, I get paid out instantly, even if they blow the lead
00:26:20.600 later. Sound familiar, Dale? Thanks, Bet365. Must be 19 or older, Ontario only. Please play
00:26:26.620 responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone
00:26:29.220 close to you, please go to connexontario.ca and see supply. Thank you guys for watching
00:26:34.300 the Riley Gaines show. You can subscribe right here. We have new episodes every single Tuesday
00:26:38.680 and Friday at 10 a.m. Eastern time, and we are covering everything from pop culture to politics
00:26:43.840 to deep dives to motherhood, sports, all of that and more. We want to hear from you, though. What
00:26:48.400 is it that you want to hear? Comment down below. We can't wait to see you next time.
00:26:51.220 recently our company softball team lost the big game by one run then dale tried to console us with
00:27:08.000 the quote winning isn't everything well dale and i are very different i get early payout from bet
00:27:15.420 365. If my team goes up big,
00:27:17.680 I get paid out instantly, even if
00:27:19.420 they blow the lead later. Sound
00:27:21.380 familiar, Dale? Thanks,
00:27:23.280 Bet365. Must be 19 or older
00:27:25.300 Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or
00:27:27.360 concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you,
00:27:29.280 please go to connexontario.ca and see supply.