00:08:44.120But remember, in Mountain Time, it is just about noon, just crossed over into the noon hour, so they are breaking for lunch.
00:08:51.560Now, what we saw already is that some hearing had begun, but all of the results that we got, all of the rulings that we got, were in regards to evidentiary permissions, were in regards to media being allowed in the courtroom.
00:09:11.820All of those things are what was brought into the court, yet we don't have any specific rulings on the actual hearing yet.
00:09:20.780And so let's take a step back and just remind everyone the process here.
00:09:26.580And so I'm familiar with this, having been through the first week of this hearing itself, and to remind people how we got here.
00:09:36.200So when I was there in the courtroom and sitting right where you see various members of the gallery right there, it's very warm.
00:12:59.540And so correct me where I was wrong, but did I lay out the process of this?
00:13:05.160Did I get that right in terms of what we're – with the point we're at in the legal proceedings here with Kyle Robinson?
00:13:11.320and what we expect to see today. Yeah, I mean, my understanding, I'm a little bit behind the
00:13:17.040eight ball on this, but my understanding is we're expecting a ruling here on the question of whether
00:13:22.240or not there's probable cause and whether these charges are going to be bound over. And then that
00:13:27.280starts the real process. Yeah, Will, so what we were told was that today was going to be arguments,
00:13:33.360which have yet to begin, right? So we're all behind the eight ball. So the arguments have yet
00:13:38.100to actually begin because there were some preliminary motions that they were going through
00:13:43.060early on. Again, evidentiary transparency, what Tyler Robinson's team trying to block evidence,
00:13:51.200the prosecution trying to reveal the evidence to the public and be transparent. Tyler Robinson's
00:13:56.400team, Tyler Robinson's team at one point claimed that, that some of the evidence should be banned
00:14:01.900and also that cameras should be banned in the courtroom because of poly market. And they claimed
00:14:06.220that polymarket shows the, uh, undue influence of live streams. And that's a reason potentially
00:14:14.440to not show the public, uh, give the public access. And specifically they, they cited the,
00:14:19.880uh, I don't know what you call it, the, um, entry on polymarket where you could bet on whether or
00:14:25.840not he would be found guilty of homicide. Of course, as you and I both know, uh, that has
00:14:30.200nothing to do with the live stream that has to do with the results of the trial. Whenever that does
00:14:35.080take place. So it's not affected by live streaming at all. Yet Tyler Robinson's team decided to take
00:14:39.980a Hail Mary and go for that and waste a whole bunch of time with the delay tactics that you've
00:14:44.900been coming on this program and detailing for months at this point. So now they have effectively
00:14:49.640delayed all the way until lunchtime. So now here we are during the lunch break in the hearing,
00:14:55.640which has not actually begun. So we were told we're going to get argument from each side. Each
00:15:01.280Chida is expected to give about an hour for their respective arguments, the prosecution, then the defense.
00:15:08.740We don't know if there's going to be a response to the prosecution or anything like that,
00:15:12.280or if the prosecution is going to try to respond to the defense,
00:15:15.820and at which point the judge will, Judge Graff will likely take a break.
00:15:20.340And we were told that the court announced by one of his clerks earlier, I believe earlier in the week,
00:15:27.160I think it was yesterday, that a ruling will be issued today.
00:15:31.880Yeah, I'm not surprised. This happens sometimes in court where there's an argument, but the decision's already been made effectively, and so the argument is just kind of pro forma.
00:15:41.500I get the sense that that's what's going on here, and that's kind of for obvious reasons, right?
00:15:45.460The judge held something like a week, a full week of preliminary hearings on all these questions that we covered in detail that you were in.
00:15:54.200You were in Utah for these hearings, so he's already—
00:15:56.760Sure was, and it was grueling. It was just as grueling as this.
00:16:00.200Right. So, well, I mean, from that, that means that he's already kind of figured out in his mind what he's going to do here.
00:16:05.480And plus, just for the folks back home watching, there has also been written briefings which have been published and we've got them up at the postmillennialandhumanevents.com, which people can go read.
00:16:20.240So those those written briefings were sort of the kind of like a summary, I guess you could say, of the things that happened during the hearings when they were when they were going on.
00:16:30.080And now we're getting to the closing argument. So it was the five days of the grueling hearing that took place before.
00:16:35.800It was the written arguments. Now today is, and to your point, it's, you know, kind of formality because he really, you know, I think really the judge and both sides know what is going to be said at this point.
00:16:48.740Exactly. And he doesn't need to hear an oral argument that is just regurgitating the stuff he's already read in the briefing.
00:16:54.320In fact, he'd probably be kind of annoyed if they tried to make brand new spanking new arguments in their oral argument that didn't occur to them over the weeks that they had to write these briefs.
00:17:05.140This is actually – in federal court, this is one of those situations where a judge would probably say no oral argument is needed here after the briefing is done, and he would just resolve the motion on its own merits.
00:17:15.520Obviously, state courts do – different states do different things in terms of requiring oral argument.
00:17:19.840you never know but the fact that the judge already said that he's going to issue a ruling today means
00:17:25.200if you if you're hearing that as an advocate it means that you really you know that what
00:17:28.560you go get up and say in court doesn't really matter very well i'm just gonna say it that
00:17:33.120that we um we when i say we i mean like like myself and you know some of the guys that i was
00:17:38.320with we expected a ruling at the end of the five days last time we were there in utah and it was
00:17:43.440the defense that said oh no no we want to brief you know we want to we want to brief we want to
00:17:48.400going to drag this out. We're going to go. Remember, this was July. And so we're sitting
00:17:52.300there in July in the high desert in the middle of the sun thinking that, okay, we've been
00:17:57.220through five days of this with with no coffee because Utah is sort of a sort of a low coffee
00:18:02.780state, shall we say. And then the defense says, oh, no, we're going to brief and we're
00:18:09.500going to have another hearing after this to get a ruling on the briefings. And I have
00:18:15.020to say it definitely felt like the wind was sucked out of the sails because we thought that you know
00:18:20.360we'd be you know at least um at least seeing some progress at the end of the week and then to be
00:18:25.620told that that no instead it's going to delay it it really goes to show you that uh when when a team
00:18:31.020has chosen delay as a tactic there are all sorts of things that they can do to delay a proceeding
00:18:36.600that's absolutely true uh and i think it's it seems particularly true in the state court instance
00:18:41.880I think in federal court, the indictment would have been turned around by now, I think, at least with the criminal proceedings in federal court.
00:18:47.200Things tend to run more efficiently, obviously, because you don't even have this whole preliminary hearing preparation thing.
00:18:53.280You literally just have a grand jury indictment.
00:18:55.340I mean, you'd be right into the scheduling trial dates already because the moment the complaint would be unsealed, if this were a federal proceeding, they would have already obtained the indictment from a grand jury.
00:19:05.800uh one of probably one of the arguably one of the virtues of the sort of grand jury system it may be
00:19:10.860less public but it is it is more efficient in this respect i think that's right and and in addition
00:19:18.420when when we find this out and you know so for just to kind of put people in the room some more
00:19:23.520um during during the break period which is uh generally an hour you know there is time uh you
00:19:28.620go into you know each each side if you will kind of has their own um you know kind of has an area
00:19:35.620It's usually an unused courtroom that's on the same floor.
00:19:38.460So you go over there, it's secure, you get food, you can sit, but it's not relaxing in
00:19:45.560any way because you're still in there and it's extremely tense.
00:19:49.140There's so much anxiety, especially for the non-lawyers or people without any legal background
00:19:54.520at all who have to keep up with the whole thing.
00:19:56.800In addition, by the way, to the obvious, just the obvious personal element of all of this
00:20:03.360for the families that are involved and the families are right there. I mean, again, the
00:20:08.380thing that I've tried to stress so much to people is just how small the courtroom is
00:20:12.620or, you know, and I mean to say it's not, it's not a confined space, but it's, you'd
00:20:17.560think for something like this, you know, you go to a, you know, a Trump rally or something
00:20:22.360or you, a turning point event, right? You know, I suppose that'd be the more apt comparison
00:20:28.240And you'd see Charlie on stage with tens of thousands of people cheering and celebrating for their country.
00:20:36.900And it seems almost reductive to think that something so enormous as the murder of Charlie Kirk could be reduced to, you know, I think it's six of my notes over in the corner there.
00:20:50.980I think it was six rows of, you know, of seats.
00:21:51.340where's jack where's jack where is he jack i want to see you
00:22:07.660great job jack thank you what a job you do you know we have an incredible thing we're always
00:22:15.120talking about the fake news and the bad but we have guys and these are the guys should be getting
00:22:20.080policies. All right, folks, we are back live human events daily. We are, of course, covering
00:22:30.200everything that is going on in the Tyler Robinson preliminary hearing. We're on with
00:22:38.520Will Chamberlain, the host of counterweight and also senior associate at the article three
00:22:45.840project will. So when we're looking for something like this, to your point, we shouldn't be
00:22:51.240expecting to see any more, any new arguments be made. That being said, let me ask you this
00:22:58.220question. If you're the defense team, can you potentially pull out any more stops to find
00:23:03.260more delays here? I mean, maybe that really would be a function of Utah procedure and what kind of
00:23:11.140motions you're allowed to make and how seriously the judge intends on taking those motions.
00:23:15.840I think my guess is the judge is trying to be scrupulously careful to protect the defendant's due process rights here.
00:23:21.480And the reason is he doesn't want this trial getting thrown back at him.
00:23:24.120He knows, you know, this is a serious matter and all the eyes are going to be on him.
00:23:29.000So I think he's generally just going to be trying to make sure that the, you know, the defense just doesn't really have any meaningful complaints or at least any reasonable complaints.
00:23:42.860And it doesn't seem doesn't seem reasonable at all.
00:23:45.940And in fact, it's it's getting to the point where, you know, they're kind of restating the things that that they've all stated multiple times.
00:23:53.800And in fact, you know, we just watched about 40 minutes of Judge Graff going through why, you know, why it was not prejudicial for I'm sorry.
00:24:03.620I'm laughing because it seems so ridiculous to me, these delay tactics that he's saying that it's that it's it's not prejudicial for poly market to be, you know, putting up entries about the case, because that's the type of thing that is going to happen, whether or not there is a live stream of the trial.
00:24:23.140All right. This this is about transparency in the judicial process.
00:24:28.820That is something that the public has a right to.
00:24:32.840And the flip side of which is that, you know, you you have less transparency and you have less insight into a trial and something like this, which has been so caustic and has been argued about.
00:24:44.920In fact, well, I believe you have a debate coming up on this or, you know, certain elements of this here in the near future that's dropping, which so please promote that when you get a chance.
00:24:57.060And, you know, it's that's just just why we should all have the ability to see what's actually happening.
00:25:10.980First off, it wouldn't have any impact on the judge.
00:25:12.520Obviously, the judge is just doing their job.
00:25:14.060And secondly, the idea that it would prejudice a fair trial only – I mean that's something that obviously could be cured with instructions to the jury at the outset of the trial, which is like, by the way, just in case you guys were wondering, you're not allowed to bet on the outcome of this trial on polymarket.
00:25:27.700If you do so, it would be a serious crime.
00:25:32.960Any appellate court would look at that and say that's totally reasonable because there's a lot of – there's already a billion other instructions you have to give to jurors in the modern world.
00:25:39.760Let me just tease that out a little bit.
00:25:42.560So if you were on the jury, right, and we've seen, by the way, congressional candidates do this.
00:25:48.680We saw President Trump's, I think, teleprompter manager, his director of the teleprompter had to pay a huge fine over ethics for, I forget if it was Polly Market or Calci, one of these.
00:26:01.280But if you were on the jury and you were found to be betting on Polly Market, they can find that out, right?
00:26:09.840They find this stuff out all the time, right?
00:26:11.980Like if, you know, especially if your bet was sizable in any way, in a way that was distinct from the rest of the people, I mean, gosh, it would be easy to find.
00:26:19.460And then I don't know exactly what the crime would be under Utah law, but I'm sorry it would be some sort of wire fraud.
00:26:46.120Now, he had that information, but he did not leak classified information.
00:26:50.920He just bet that he thought that something would happen to Maduro.
00:26:54.200I suspect that argument may not do too well when it actually faces a judge in a motion to dismiss.
00:27:00.520I suspect that might not go over so well.
00:27:03.460Well, I mean, it depends on what level we're talking here.
00:27:06.360It depends on whether that's criminal or ethics-based.
00:27:09.540But but point being is, is they're going to find out, OK, they're going to find out.
00:27:15.280That's the point I'm trying to make here that, you know, the judge will find out very quickly if there's anyone suspected of using polymarket.
00:27:23.640And, yes, they can monitor it. And, yes, they can check your communications.
00:27:27.240And so I don't know. Well, I don't know why it is what people seem to think that that law enforcement in America isn't good at stuff like this because they actually are quite good at it.
00:27:36.720question courts yeah no i i they the courts have dealt with many of these problems before i mean
00:27:43.080they deal with these types of problems with regard to controlling juries accessing social media right
00:27:47.180like that's going to be a huge thing in this trial is that every day the judge is going to
00:27:51.280instruct the jurors not to access social media um so controlling you know figuring out ways to
00:27:56.980control juries and ensure fair trials is just i mean these trials trials happen every single day
00:28:00.760in the united states of america and on any number of topics for any number of crimes for any number
00:28:05.060of civil cases. This is not novel. No, it's not. And by the way, I think people are realizing too
00:28:11.920that if you're on jury, they can do things like say, give us your cell phones and we are going
00:28:20.500to look or they're going to pull you in for questioning. All of this is within their purview
00:28:27.620because you are participating as a sworn member of a legal proceeding. So it doesn't mean that
00:28:34.860you're just some, you have the same rights as, you know, any random member of the public,
00:28:40.480right? You have your ethic. And obviously, right. Jury tampering is something that is a crime in
00:28:48.240the United States. And yes, actual members of the jury can be found guilty of it too,
00:28:54.340because that's what it would be. This would be jury tampering.
00:28:56.920That's it. That's exactly right. I have to get off the line. I apologize, but
00:29:00.380a hundred percent right on that point totally understand will thank you so much for hopping
00:29:04.980on here tell uh well i'll put it out you gotta run but uh go check out counterweight will
00:29:10.040chamberlain and go follow him on x and all the other spots where he is at we're coming up on a
00:29:15.240quick break here so i want to talk a little bit when we get back about the other trial that america
00:29:21.120is watching the lindsey clancy trial which may be going to a hung jury why could that be i have an
00:29:28.120idea. I'll tell you about it when I get back. Human Events Daily, Real America's Voice.
00:29:58.120you talk about influences these are influences and uh they're friends of mine
00:30:05.060jack so like where's jack jack he's got a great job
00:30:10.820all right folks human events daily right back here jack posovic ladies and gentlemen right
00:30:20.300now there's a page on the internet with your name at the top of it your home address your
00:30:25.120phone number, your relatives, your old addresses going back years. Yet you never made that page.
00:30:30.740You never said yes to it. A company called a data broker built it to make money, and there are
00:30:36.560hundreds of companies just like it, each one publishing their own version of you. Here's what
00:30:42.520that means. A stranger with your name in probably about 20 minutes can figure out where you live,
00:30:47.220where you used to live, who your family is, and when you bought your house. They can map out your
00:30:52.480whole life and the people doing that homework on you are not doing it for a good reason no in fact
00:30:59.780that is how scams start they find your birthday they find your mother's maiden name and now they
00:31:04.120can answer your bank's security questions better in fact than you can sometimes and i know we all
00:31:11.040certainly have those that's why myself and my family we use patriot protect they go to those
00:31:16.360sites and get your information taken off and they keep checking so when it pops back up again they
00:31:22.120take it down again. Before Patriot Protect, I could type my own name into Google, pull my own
00:31:26.880home address, page after page of it, it was all up. Now that information, invisible. They pulled
00:31:32.680tens of thousands of records for listeners of this show. My family's on my plan. You can get
00:31:38.600your family on yours too. Other services just send you alert after the information is already gone.
00:31:44.400Patriot Protect makes you and your family unsearchable, so the scam never gets started.
00:31:49.020The phone scam runs thousands of dollars for people.
00:31:52.760Becoming unsearchable costs a whole lot less.
00:32:14.600A stranger can map out your whole life in 20 minutes unless you become unsearchable.
00:32:21.180Now, folks, you need to understand what's going on in our country.
00:32:26.280And in order to do so, unfortunately, one of the ways that we can find this out is through the prevalence of the court proceedings that we see going on.
00:32:35.080because not only is the Tyler Robinson trial for the murder of Charlie Kirk happening in Provo, Utah,
00:32:41.000but also there is a Lindsay Clancy trial, which is currently deadlocked.
00:32:46.120I want to get a, the jury is deadlocked.
00:32:56.980And thanks for hopping on at the last minute like this.
00:33:00.280We didn't know that the hearing would be going to lunchtime, and yet here we are.
00:33:04.700We are quite literally at the mercy of the court. But Libby, when it comes to this now, I have this contention and I've been posting about it.
00:33:12.360It's sort of become a meme. But I think it's one of those things where like any any good meme, that's because we all have a certain resonance with it.
00:33:20.720And we know that the the breakdown and you've been posting about this, that the breakdown of the jury is nine women and three men in the Lindsay Clancy trial.
00:33:31.440We found out earlier today that it was deadlocked.
00:33:35.160They went back to the judge and said, we can't, we actually can't agree.
00:34:00.240I know there were over 80 witnesses. There were over 300 exhibits.
00:34:06.360And but because of that, I'm going to ask you to go back out, keeping in mind all of the instructions I gave you to go out and to continue your deliberations at this time.
00:34:20.500Now he's asking me to go back. The judge is saying, hey, you know, we're not we're not going to pull this just yet.
00:34:25.800So that would lead to a hung jury, which would lead to a mistrial.
00:34:28.920And as I was saying before, there's been this meme that perhaps it's the three men that are holding out
00:34:35.440because they are the ones who believe she is guilty while the women believe she is not guilty.
00:34:54.720There is definitely this trend that women are being more sympathetic toward Clancy, and I find that so bizarre.
00:35:02.560I would think that women would know better than anyone else that there is absolutely no justification to murder your child, or your three children in this case, even if you're feeling really sad about being a mommy that day.
00:35:15.000And for sure, I don't understand postpartum depression.
00:35:17.700I didn't experience anything like that.
00:35:19.860But even if you do experience something like that, it's up to you to not kill your children.
00:35:24.920And I've been following this meme as well.
00:35:27.620And I agree with you because I think that it would be so hard to look at your own family if you were a man and say, I have this family, but I could see a circumstance in which case I could see that my wife was justified in killing our children.
00:35:42.320well and so when when we put out and we have a whole chapter on this in uh the new unhumans book
00:35:50.900socialist revolution because this is exactly what we're talking about we're talking about this
00:35:55.540fried mental model that so many people have and caitlin bennett has been putting up incredible
00:36:00.880videos today where she is interviewing moms on the streets instead of man on the street it's moms on
00:36:07.100the street. And she's down in, I think St. Augustine, Florida, and just going around to
00:36:12.360random moms at the park and, you know, asking them obviously if they want to be interviewed
00:36:16.000and then saying, you know, do you think Lindsay Clancy is guilty or not? And mom after mom after
00:36:20.980mom is saying, well, you know, I think she was sleep deprived or maybe the husband did it,
00:36:27.040or maybe there's something like this. And it's, it's a contagion, a mental contagion that has
00:36:33.560absolutely spread nationwide. And so I don't think that I'm, you know, too far off my rocker
00:36:40.340here, too far over my skis to say perhaps that it has made its way into the jury box.
00:36:45.860Yeah. And when you look at the jury box, you have to understand that this is not just a jury of
00:36:51.320Clancy's peers in Plymouth. This is all of our peers in the United States. Is this what
00:36:56.380they are really thinking? Are they really thinking that it's possible to justify
00:37:00.320child murder if you're just not feeling up to mothering that day or, you know, having difficulty
00:37:06.160for a little while. And I'd like to say I'm wearing a pink scarf. It has nothing to do with
00:37:10.300Clancy. I just, I just like this scarf seriously, but I think that's something to think about.
00:37:15.740Oh gosh, no, no, no. I didn't, I thought that was a, I was hoping that was just a, you know,
00:37:19.620a color variation coming through the system. Oh my gosh, she's turned on us. Libby Edmonds is going,
00:37:25.800is going full liberal. But yeah, I think we need to realize that this is a, this is a jury of all
00:37:31.720of our peers. This is what women are thinking about across the country. And it's absolutely
00:37:36.200maddening. And as someone who believes in this crazy thing called women having equal rights
00:37:41.680under the law, I look at this and I say, how can women justify asking for more power if you can't
00:37:47.940even take responsibility for your own brutal actions? And if you can't even expect a woman
00:37:53.460to take responsibility for murdering somebody, never mind her own children. I mean, that's
00:37:59.580really, that's insane. I think it would be a real step back for women's equality if it turns out
00:38:05.320that you can just say, hey, I was nuts for a little bit, and so that's why I did this horrific
00:38:09.860thing. Don't blame me. All right, Libby, and J-Town is actually hopping on right now. He's
00:38:19.000joining us wanted to hop him in here and kind of bouncing between different cases a lot of things
00:38:25.380that are that are moving jay how are you good to be with you jack how are you and i'm happy to
00:38:30.960chime in on clancy too it's it's captivated all of us and uh you know big big day i'd love to get
00:38:37.260your take on that this this you know i threw out there that maybe it's the three guys who are the
00:38:41.240holdouts uh you're you're uh more experienced in this field than me just you know do you think
00:38:45.740that that's something that could possibly be a likelihood well i mean it's it's possible i mean
00:38:52.980it's hard for me to even imagine what it would take to be a holdout in this particular case given
00:38:58.500the you know the the mountain of evidence uh against her i i don't believe one bit of the
00:39:04.760mental health defense um and and jack if i could just pose this for your audience as to why that
00:39:10.040is right it's not that i don't believe in mental health or postpartum depression or psychosis or
00:39:14.700the DSM. Here's the piece of evidence that I would like your audience to really consider
00:39:19.980as to whether or not somebody is crazy. Now, Lindsay Clancy is a nurse. She's a mandatory
00:39:25.700reporter. She must notify the police if she suspects anything or anyone of domestic abuse,
00:39:34.160sexual abuse, some sort of predatory behavior. And she informed, according to the mother-in-law
00:39:40.660and the husband that informed them both that she had concerns she might harm the children.
00:39:46.220Now, she was seeing mental health professionals in the 11 months leading up to the murders.
00:39:52.860Well, interesting. Why didn't she tell one of those mental health professionals that?
00:39:58.220That I'm thinking I'm going to harm my kids. I'm scared. I'm having weird thoughts. Well,
00:40:03.240you know why? Because she knew that they were mandatory reporters either as well. They had
00:40:08.940to notify police. Child Protective Services would have showed up at her door, taken her kids away,
00:40:14.160removed her from the home, put her in a facility for evaluation. She might not have seen those
00:40:19.160kids again until somebody cleared her. That is understanding the wrongfulness of your actions
00:40:25.500because she concealed the truth from the only professionals that she saw that could actually
00:40:31.740help her and more importantly protect those kids jay that's exactly what we all hope that would
00:40:41.000have happened but for some reason that there was a breakdown and it did not we got a quick break
00:40:47.060holding up jay i want to hold you for just a little bit longer because this is the entire
00:40:52.520nation it's wrapped around it you can see it right back
00:40:55.720so big appreciation hour i can say confidently i believe i think josh shapiro would be the vice
00:41:05.040presidential nominee if it wasn't for jack so big and that that is i'm being honest
00:41:09.380all right folks jack so big we are back here human events daily we've got on a uh i guess
00:41:20.940a legal panel now in the sense that we're a legal analysis panel maybe i should say because we're
00:41:25.620We're discussing a number of the cases that are going on right now.
00:41:29.020Tyler Robinson, of course, that case is on hold right now.
00:41:32.100We were just watching the preliminary hearing for that.
00:41:34.800But also something that's on hold and, you know, sort of held in abeyance is the Lindsay Clancy murder trial.
00:41:43.740But actually, Jay, let me ask you this, because so this is something we've been we've been dealing with in the Charlie case where we're coming up on the one year of that murder.
00:41:55.620Um, this is yet to even finish the preliminary hearing, Lindsey Clancy, this, uh, these murders,
00:42:02.640this series of murders took place. If I have this down correctly, almost, almost four years ago.
00:42:07.640So it's been almost four years since she killed her kids in that basement and it is only now
00:42:13.960gone to trial. So when we look at the timeline of these things, um, you know, with, with the
00:42:19.100Tyler Robinson trial, the way that it's working through is would you call that standard? Would
00:42:23.160you call that delayed? What should we be expecting here? Oh, they're both delayed. And now for a
00:42:29.760mental health defense, it is not unreasonable to go a couple of years. You know, these doctors,
00:42:35.120they evaluate over a period of months a patient, and then it takes them months to create their
00:42:40.980report. And then there'll be a counter expert to that report takes them six months. So you can
00:42:45.900billed in 18 months from right away after the charges are referred from a grand jury because
00:42:53.900that's how long it's going to take the experts. But four years is too long. And remember, we're
00:43:00.460just, you know, I don't know where it's going to go in Utah, but we're just at a preliminary. This
00:43:04.360is better than a coin toss is all a preliminary hearing is that Tyler Robinson murdered Charlie
00:43:09.800Kirk. He's confessed to it to, I don't know, half a dozen people at least, right, on 10 different
00:43:15.520occasions. So, and his DNA is all over the gun, the shell casings, the Dremel that put the
00:43:23.260disgusting remarks on the shell casings. So, you know, honestly, this should never take this long
00:43:30.720for a preliminary hearing. This judge is treating it like it's a mini jury trial. It's not. And the
00:43:35.800prosecution, frankly, has kind of let it happen. This is a, for a prelim, you literally could have
00:43:41.500one or two witnesses. Most of my prelims, and I've done thousands of them, they, you know,
00:43:46.600as one witness, the cop read the report, they run the medical examiner's report, any ballistics
00:43:51.440reports, and they just read it to the judge. It's all hearsay, sure, but hearsay is allowable
00:43:55.940at a preliminary hearing. It's reliable hearsay because those experts are going to come testify
00:43:59.840at the trial itself. That's why it's reliable and invisible at a prelim. So, you know, I just,
00:44:05.520for Erica and for the Kirk family and for everybody whose heart was broken on that day,
00:44:09.620on September 10th. I just feel like this thing needs to move along. I couldn't agree more. And
00:44:17.900of course, that's where we're at here in the, not we, but the family, what's left of it is up
00:44:26.100in the Lindsey Clancy trial, where it's been almost four years. So over three and a half years
00:44:32.300now, it was January of 2023. It's been a long time. It's been a very long time. Libby, I want
00:44:38.740I want to pull you in once again on this because I want to ask that, you know, you're seeing all
00:44:44.280this as it plays out. You know, we do see an intersection of these cultural lines, cultural
00:44:51.780fault lines in our society regarding the Lindsay Clancy case specifically. And unfortunately,
00:44:58.300do you think these fault lines have any hope of ever, ever coming back together anytime soon?
00:45:05.540You know, I would love to say that I really do hope that and that I think that it's possible.
00:45:10.700I do hope it. I don't know that it's possible right now.
00:45:14.100I think this is I mean, I can't be the only woman who just finds it absolutely shocking that women are showing up with their kids to advocate for a child killer.
00:45:23.840And it makes it really hard to believe that our country can come together.
00:45:27.880And what's interesting here is, too, this is not really a right or left issue.
00:45:32.380This is not a primarily political divide. This is a divide over what people think is justifiable. And we live in a culture that is a death cult. We have a pro-abortion culture, a pro-euthanasia culture.
00:45:47.020And it's no wonder that a lot of women who are pro-choice think that it's okay to even kill children, I guess, 18 months after they've been born.
00:45:57.100So I do hope that we can come together.
00:45:59.480But until people like the Lindsey Clancy supporters realize that actions have consequences and that accountability matters, we're not going to be able to do that.
00:46:10.460I think that's quite part of it as well.
00:46:13.160But, Jay, I want to get you back on here because one of the things that, you know, I certainly have been, you know, wondering is, and I think all of us, is how much of this that we see going on on social media, how much of this actually makes its way into a jury room?
00:46:28.540Obviously, this is the kind of thing that, you know, you hope is covered in voir dire, you hope is screened for, but it doesn't mean that juries are not susceptible to it because they're, you know, jurors are human beings, too.
00:46:38.000They are. And, you know, I don't believe that there's not a single jury in the Clancy case or eventually in the Robinson case that will see or has seen social media or even the protests outside of the courthouse that hasn't influenced them just a little bit.
00:46:56.820If they didn't see it because they're great jurors and great stewards of their jury instructions, their husbands did or their wives did or their neighbors or wherever they were this weekend.
00:47:07.380Everybody knows that their juror on this trial, all their friends know, their families know, their work knows.
00:47:13.580And so they're continually peppering them with she didn't do it or, you know, the husband did it, which is ridiculous.
00:47:20.900Right. You know, he's even had to hire a legal team.
00:47:23.800And all of these ridiculous theories that you're seeing online, that's not by experts.
00:47:28.560It's just people opining on their own out of, you know, sort of whimsical whole plot.
00:47:34.620Too much of it creeps into the jury room.
00:47:37.000And here's what I'll end with, Jack, is that, you know, when you're the prosecution, you should run a tight case.
00:47:44.920If you let it expand for five or six weeks, you allow the circus tent's time to set up outside.
00:47:50.480And then you allow the circus to come to town and it can influence your jurists.
00:47:55.480It can influence your jury. Certainly TV and media are talking about it.
00:48:00.180This was over in eight days, a 10 witness case. OK, that's it.
00:48:04.960Right. A couple of doctors, the medical examiner, the mother-in-law and the husband and maybe a couple of cops.
00:48:12.460And that's it. This isn't a whodunit. This is is she nuts or not. That's it.
00:48:17.260And so, I mean, yeah, the arguments are going to be long and the jury deserves to hear all of that.
00:48:22.800But this is not a six week trial. That's absurd.
00:48:25.900And so you've let the circus come to town now. Prosecution.
00:48:29.200The Commonwealth needs to now if they have to try this thing again because it hangs, which it appears it might, then they need to tighten up their case.
00:48:37.800This needs to be a two week trial after voir dire, not this six week ridiculous sideshow that the defense wanted it to be.
00:48:45.760No, I think you're right. And I think that the defense absolutely has played into this circus.
00:48:51.800And we see that when the defense attorney Reddington goes out there every day and he's interacting with these activists and supporters that are out there and that he's, you know, he's he's egging him on.
00:49:02.480He's he's egging him on. He's giving him the sound bites. He's doing exactly what he wants.
00:49:07.180J-Town, where can people go to follow you and get access to your legal expertise?
00:49:11.360please uh you can follow me on exit eight at j town alabama i really appreciate you having me on
00:49:17.560jack have me again good to see you i appreciate you hopping on on short notice like this thank
00:49:22.240you so much i want to close here with with libby because libby look as a mom right you know and
00:49:27.540and people have said oh jack you've been hard on the moms this week i said no no no i've been hard
00:49:31.500on the toxic feminists but there's another type of mom out there and you know i haven't had my
00:49:37.820wife tanya tay on this to um you know interview her or anything but you know she's horrified by
00:49:44.600this uh this case and has actually said she doesn't doesn't like you know hearing she listens
00:49:50.700to the show every day and she said i don't like hearing about this that it's it's it's obviously
00:49:54.500very hard to consider uh for any mom so libby give us give us that side of it yeah i think tanya tay
00:50:01.800is right and i think she is an absolutely wonderful woman and a wonderful mom and i agree with her
00:50:06.720a hundred percent. I don't like hearing about this case either. I hate listening to it. It's
00:50:11.200absolutely horrifying. And there's so many women who feel that way as well. So many moms who look
00:50:17.180at their children every day and are just grateful for the opportunity to raise them and for the
00:50:22.740opportunity to be their mother. I feel that way every single day since my son was born. I'm just
00:50:28.100so grateful to be his mom. And kudos to all the moms out there who don't understand Lindsay
00:50:33.340Clancy at all. God bless. And please, please go and give Libby a follow. And you're right.
00:50:40.540Gratitude is a superpower. Gratitude is a superpower. Ladies and gentlemen,
00:50:45.900as always, you have my permission to lay ashore.