00:04:14.880The court appreciates the professionalism, civility, and respect shown by counsel, the parties, and all persons in attendance throughout these proceedings.
00:04:22.980As there are no further matters before the court, this proceeding is adjourned until September 1st at 10 a.m.
00:04:35.220Benny, well, there you have it. Five days, not even five full days of the pretrial hearing of
00:04:40.300Tyler Robinson is now complete. It's in the books. Judge Graff has said the next hearing will be
00:04:46.220on September 1st, which seems like an eternity from now. I'll be honest. I think we have had a
00:04:52.640lot of conjecture about why this has taken so long, while it would continue to feel so long.
00:04:57.740You know, we're not Judge Graff. We're a public method of judging, shall we say. We've seen the
00:05:04.340evidence. Uh, we've seen what the judge has seen or most of it. And I think most of us have made up
00:05:09.740our minds. I would think, uh, those rational among us, but Benny, I just want to get your
00:05:13.900take on that because we've gone through five days of trial now, not trial pre pre-trial hearing.
00:05:18.620It's important to note that. Uh, and it's going to still take a bit of time before we know whether
00:05:24.140there's probable cause, uh, your thoughts on that. Yeah. Well, well, quite frankly, I, you know,
00:05:29.820you know we aren't the judge we aren't the judge and we we don't know the amount of of all the
00:05:35.100things that he has to go through but it's quite frustrating that it's coming up on a year since
00:05:40.840Charlie's death and you know September 1st for the decision that's an entire it's two months away
00:05:47.400you know I respect the judge and how he said he wants to make sure he he has thought everything
00:05:53.880through he's viewed everything he doesn't want to rush it I appreciate that but what about Erica
00:05:59.240What about she's been there sitting there for five days, all the TPUSA, you know, employees and people that have been waiting for so long to get more than this.
00:06:11.600And so I'm a little disappointed that there wasn't a ruling today.
00:06:15.260But, yeah, September 1st at 10 a.m., that's that's what he said.
00:08:49.440And so even though there is a lot of evidence, if he just continues to rule in favor of the
00:08:54.640prosecution again and again and again, and yes, there was a mistake that happened.
00:08:58.980But like you said, it was three, not it was like three and a half seconds or something crazy, you know, and and everyone took responsibility for that.
00:09:07.420But I do believe the defense has been waiting for that.
00:09:09.260And they are going to nitpick those things throughout this entire trial and every single thing they will find to try to pull the threat apart.
00:09:17.540Right. And I do want to bring in our guests now.
00:09:19.220We do have Will Chamberlain, the senior counsel for the Article 3 project.
00:09:56.520I mean, I think that's all obviously true.
00:09:58.500I mean, the evidence presented that we saw in the last four days was overwhelming.
00:10:01.540I understand why the judge is doing what he's doing, honestly.
00:10:03.820I'm personally surprised that the judge allowed so much to be published to the public because, you know, basically the analogy here with these preliminary hearings is like a grand jury indictment.
00:10:13.480In other states, they don't do a public preliminary hearing.
00:10:16.220They do a grand jury indictment in secret.
00:10:18.140Part of the reason that you have secret proceedings is that the idea that people, the grand jury, can see the evidence, whatever it is, in secret, and that evidence is not published to the public that could potentially contaminate a jury trial.
00:10:28.940Whereas in Utah, they do it differently, and there's obviously this deep risk that when you allow evidence in and before you have determinations of admissibility, you're going to have evidence that the potential jury pool is aware of that a judge later thinks shouldn't be evaluated in the context of the trial.
00:10:45.740So it was always surprising to me that, you know, in this context, he'd be willing to let so much be shown to the public.
00:10:52.440That said, you know, once you have, you know, he made a call that something shouldn't have been shown to the public and the media screwed it up and did show it to the public.
00:10:59.860I can certainly understand his attitude that the whole experiment of letting exhibits be published needed to be come to an end.
00:11:06.040Because ultimately, the only determination that needed to be made from a legal perspective here was the judge's own determination that there was probable cause.
00:11:13.100So nobody else really needed to see this evidence from a legal perspective.
00:11:16.860Obviously, you know, there's a, you know, the victim's rights and the right of the public.
00:11:20.620I mean, I wouldn't even call it the right of the public.
00:11:22.300There's a public interest in having all this information be there, but there's no right to it.
00:11:27.800As for the sort of speed of things, I think, yeah, things are going slowly because the defense wants them to go slowly.
00:11:32.900But ultimately, it's the defense's core right to a speedy trial, right?
00:11:39.860Like, I think that, you know, there's an interest in a speedy trial from the victim's perspective, but there's a right to a speedy trial from the defense.
00:11:46.060Like, if the defense gets up and says, you need to try me ASAP, that actually can force the prosecutors to bring the case almost immediately.
00:11:51.900That's not true from the victim's perspective.
00:11:54.180And so as a result, if the defense says, look, there's a huge amount of complicated evidence that we need to master and understand, and as a result, you know, you need to set an extended trial timeline so that we can competently represent our client,
00:12:05.960It's going to be very hard for a judge to look the other way because, again, you've got to think on appeal what happens if the judge says, no, we need to go to trial immediately.
00:12:14.320And the defense had already objected, saying, no, we need a lot more time to evaluate.
00:12:19.820There's this massive amount of evidence that's been thrust upon us by the prosecution.
00:12:24.600That would be a very bad situation on appeal.
00:12:26.600It could lead to the whole trial getting thrown out.
00:12:28.140So it's not surprising to me, again, on this as well, that the judge is being conservative here, making sure the defense has no complaints, that they get as fulsome a preliminary hearing as they apparently wanted, I think a mistake on their part, and that they get a substantial amount of time to prepare for trial.
00:12:43.920But the end result here is, I mean, it's going to be a guilty verdict.
00:12:49.480And, Will, is there any world in which he calls them back sooner?
00:12:54.360You know, I don't know a lot about the legal system when it comes to these types of things, but is there in any world, is this a possibility?
00:13:01.660Seems pretty unlikely to me. I mean, September 1 is seven weeks, something like that.
00:13:06.320It's actually not, I mean, it seems, you know, we're in the middle of summer, so we don't think, you know, September's this whole season, but it's actually, it's only about seven weeks away.
00:13:13.060That's not unheard of for kind of, you know, because there's some briefing that needs to happen here too, apparently, right?
00:13:17.760Like the prosecution needs to put out a brief based on all the evidence presented that there is probable cause, the defense gets to write some briefs that there aren't.
00:13:24.360And the prosecution gets a reply, and then the judge needs to evaluate it and write an opinion.
00:13:28.180So all that – seven weeks is a reasonable period for all that briefing and the opinion to issue.
00:13:36.720In terms of the trial, again, I mean, as I say, like I don't expect – I expect the judge to be conservative here.
00:13:42.260I think he doesn't want to have to do this again.
00:13:43.760I think that's his sort of interest, right?
00:13:45.820And from his perspective, you know, he has other business he can attend to in the interim while the defense lawyers are –
00:13:51.640everybody gets to master the actual material pretrial. But he doesn't want to, you know,
00:13:56.780if you're thinking like from the judge's perspective, you know, this trial is going
00:14:00.540to be a weeks long affair. Having to repeat weeks long events is an extraordinary expense for the
00:14:05.980court. So they do what they can to avoid that. Well, I want to ask you just so our audience
00:14:10.120understands, because it was a little difficult for me to understand. I understand why Judge
00:14:13.120Graff ruled the way he did with respect to prohibiting future exhibits. But how does the
00:14:18.800display of the photo of Robinson's confession violate his civil rights, his constitutional
00:14:25.060rights, if most of the text is already public? I mean, I got the defense's objection saying it
00:14:31.200is permanent because it is a permanent photo that will forever be out there. But how does that
00:14:36.100violate his constitutional right if most of what was in that photo, not the photo itself, but the
00:14:41.220text is already out there? And does that have any bearing on the trial itself? So I think here's
00:14:47.080here's the way to think about it what is the right that's being protected is that the right
00:14:51.780is that the defendant is being tried by getting a fair trial and a fair trial in our system is one
00:14:58.040where the jury evaluates admissible evidence and admissible evidence only so that's that's what a
00:15:03.660fair trial is yep um and so i think the way that the judge has approached approached this question
00:15:10.000of publication because if you recall there's these interesting debates about for example why is the
00:15:14.560Lance Twig's video being shown. Um, and a lot, you know, Candace among others has complained is
00:15:20.100like, Whoa, you can't show the video. He needs to come in and testify. That's not true. The
00:15:23.800preliminary hearing stage, because guilt isn't being adjudicated. It's, it's only probable cause.
00:15:28.840So you can have, you can bring in evidence that wouldn't be admissible at trial because at trial,
00:15:34.860uh, the defendant will have a constitutional right to confront their accuser. So, um, as a result,
00:15:41.780you have situations where there's evidence that would be admissible at a preliminary hearing,
00:15:46.520but it's not going to be admissible at trial. And if it's going to be published, then the fear is
00:15:52.280that that evidence is going to have been seen by the jury and then used as part of the determination
00:15:59.560improperly. So that's the basic metric. That's what the judge is trying to avoid. So then you
00:16:04.760go to this specific question. I don't know exactly what the issue would have been with this particular
00:16:08.180piece of paper. It's possible there's a hearsay issue. I think the more likely thing is that
00:16:14.220because it's like a handwritten piece of paper, there's going to be some authentication questions
00:16:18.000that haven't been resolved yet. I assume that eventually at trial, that piece of paper will
00:16:21.440come in. But I think from the judge's perspective, perhaps there's like, well, it's not 100% certain
00:16:27.220that'll come in. And if I let the public see this and it gets widely distributed, then that's a big
00:16:34.520risk to the ultimate trial fairness. So I have to, I can evaluate it now on the probable cause
00:16:39.840basis, but I don't want the public seeing this yet because of the possible, you know, the small
00:16:44.620possibility that it will be found inadmissible. And that's sort of his perspective, I think,
00:16:49.840likely. And so if he made that order and then the media violated it, well, it's likely not to do any
00:16:55.140actual harm again, because most likely that piece of paper will come in as evidence. But it just
00:17:00.080indicates to the judge that his protective rulings to sort of protect, you know, evidence
00:17:06.620where there's some question of admissibility for being seen by the public, if those rulings
00:17:10.080won't be obeyed, then none of it. He just needs to not let anything be seen by the gallery.
00:17:15.100And Will, you know, my question, we've seen a lot of evidence these past four or five days,
00:17:21.720you know, is this common for prelim hearings? You know, because I'm hearing a lot of people say
00:17:26.880that the amount of evidence that is being introduced isn't maybe as typical as it is
00:17:31.640in other trials. But you also brought up the inimissible perspective. And for our viewers,
00:17:37.120what types of evidence do you think will be allowed versus the stuff that won't? Will there
00:17:43.640be things that we saw and heard during the preliminary that absolutely will not be introduced?
00:17:49.060Kind of break that down for us. I think the only thing I remember seeing during the preliminary
00:17:54.840that I am sure will not be in the trial is the video recording of Lance Twiggs' interview with
00:18:01.000the police. And that is because, you know, one, that's hearsay. And there's no good, reasonable
00:18:07.960exception for just, you know, hearsay, right? A recording of somebody saying something.
00:18:14.260It's not the best evidence because Lance Twiggs exists and can testify, and it would violate the
00:18:18.900confrontation clause rights of Tyler Robinson. He has the right to confront his accuser. So all
00:18:22.880those things mean there's no way that video would come in. And as a result, I mean, what's going to
00:18:28.560happen at trial instead, that doesn't mean that Lance Twiggs' testimony won't be in a trial. It
00:18:32.080certainly will. He'll show up. He'll be subpoenaed and he'll have to testify under oath. But he'll
00:18:36.620also be then subject to cross-examination, right? But you can't cross-examine a video. You can cross-
00:18:40.580examine a humor. So that's the big thing I noticed that was shown that, like, will not appear at
00:18:46.180trial. And so I was actually kind of surprised that he let any of that video be published. I
00:18:50.500I really was. I mean, it's good because it really does put the nail in the coffin of all these conspiracy theories.
00:18:55.820I'm glad it did. But I was surprised because I thought, you know, there would be some fear about jury contamination.
00:19:03.240So, Will, on that note, and we don't have we might have to hold you through the break, but you're saying that he could be subpoenaed.
00:19:09.460Does that change anything for prosecution or defense in terms of Lance Twiggs being there in person facing his, I guess, former lover?
00:19:17.620does he have the gall does he have the constitution to be able to say the same things he said and
00:19:23.160possibly more and withstand cross-examination because this seemed like a very tame interview
00:19:30.080you know i mean he seemed calm he seemed collected no one's giving him tough questions
00:19:33.960about no wait a minute you know and i'm just thinking what a defense strategy would be
00:19:37.960is there are there vulnerabilities to the state's case if lance twigs testifies
00:19:42.920i suspect that there will not be much on cross-examination from the defense of lance
00:19:48.880twigs uh and the reason being that you know what would you be trying to get out of him well maybe
00:19:53.600you'd be trying to extract more information about his own culpability but all that would do is sort
00:19:58.360of reinforce the underlying guilt of your client too because if lance twigs was somehow involved
00:20:03.500in motivating tyler robinson to do this well guess what tyler robinson still pulled the trigger
00:20:07.820that would just be more evidence hurting you so i i suspect that you know if i'm sitting there as
00:20:12.420defense counsel, it's one of those situations where there just aren't going to be a lot of
00:20:15.720good questions for me to ask Lance Twiggs that help exonerate my client. But that sort of is
00:20:21.260part of a really broader problem in this case is that there's not a lot of great questions and
00:20:25.320there's not a lot of great strategies here for the defense in terms of like what it can do to
00:20:29.040really create meaningful doubt in a jury. So if anything, him being put on the stand would be
00:20:33.780even more damning for Tyler Robinson in this case. I mean, yeah, I would assume so. And he would,
00:20:39.700you know, the prosecution would get a long time to think about all the questions they want to ask,
00:20:44.400right? They get to prepare too. So this isn't just a police interview where they're just asking
00:20:47.900kind of questions and sort of exploring. They will have like a very sustained, prepared list
00:20:53.600of questions and thoughts that they want to extract. Okay. Well, Will, if we could keep you
00:20:58.740on after the break, that would be wonderful. We'd love to continue the conversation. So we'll be
00:21:01.940right back with more justice for charlie never ever stop fighting no matter what we will achieve
00:21:10.480american greatness we are just getting started
00:21:13.380never ever stop fighting no matter what we will achieve american greatness we are just getting
00:21:29.360started. Welcome back to Justice for Charlie. We still have Will Chamberlain on with us,
00:21:39.540senior counsel for the Article 3 project. Will, before we went to break, we were talking about
00:21:43.820Lance Twiggs. We only saw a heavily redacted video. We don't know everything that's in that
00:21:48.580video testimony, but he was given partial immunity. Talk about that level of partial immunity,
00:21:53.800because my understanding is that he can't be prosecuted for anything that he said in that
00:21:58.380particular interrogation. And we don't even know the totality of what he said, but I'm just wondering
00:22:02.880what else could be in there and what he could be getting immunity for potentially.
00:22:07.740All right. So, uh, you know, understanding there's two basic types of immunity, there's
00:22:11.120use immunity and there's transactional immunity. So use immunity is the more limited form that
00:22:15.260Twiggs was given. That's about saying that we can't use the testimony that you gave us or the
00:22:20.160fruits of that testimony. Like if, if we are able to do some investigation that was catalyzed by
00:22:26.340have an admission you made, uh, then that also doesn't count. Transactional immunity is broader
00:22:31.040at saying literally anything that is the subject matter of your testimony, uh, will in the entirety
00:22:37.400of the transaction is the way to think about it. You are now immune from. So even if we have an
00:22:41.980independent way to prove you committed a crime in this, in the context of this event, uh, that
00:22:47.960would mean that we wouldn't be able to, the prosecutors wouldn't be able to bring a charge.
00:22:50.720This is the more limited form. I expect that the prosecution, you know, there might well be a day when Lance Twiggs gets prosecuted for his conduct here.
00:22:59.640If the prosecutors in Utah believe they have him, he's been kind of hiding the ball and is more culpable than he's been willing to admit.
00:23:08.580But I suspect that, you know, that's in the future. The first thing, obviously, is to get the guy who pulled the trigger convicted.
00:23:15.440yeah and well you know i've been seeing a few things online about how that testimony from twigs
00:23:23.040for this prelim could have i mean the prosecution probably could have got by with just using that
00:23:28.600obviously there was so much more evidence and so obviously bring that forth um but do you think
00:23:34.600that you know it is damning enough do you think that that by twigs is damning enough yeah well i
00:23:41.980that on its own, it's probably sufficient because it reveals at least two distinct confessions by
00:23:47.080Robinson on its own, right? I mean, it reveals the confession over text and that it reveals the
00:23:52.200confession in the form of the note that he left handwritten under his keyboard, the sort of
00:23:56.660advanced confession. So, I mean, independent of really everything else, I mean, a jury could
00:24:01.900honestly, even without any other evidence involved, a jury could look at that and decide that
00:24:07.500beyond a reasonable doubt tyler robinson did it um and that's beyond you know we're not even
00:24:11.760talking about all the video evidence physical evidence dna evidence you name it um so yeah
00:24:17.580it's it's a very damning video it also it it corroborates a bunch of interesting facts like
00:24:21.460talking about how early in the morning uh robinson would have left their st george apartment
00:24:25.680you know it's like around four or five in the morning which makes it matches the timeline
00:24:29.740exactly um and i think jack basobic pointed out something very interesting you know when
00:24:34.440Robinson was uh allegedly hiding in the neighborhood at in the evening after the
00:24:40.260shooting trying to get an opportunity to go get his rifle back um he texted uh that twigs about
00:24:47.300how the crickets were super loud and apparently the nest video that captured Robinson's car
00:24:52.360at the time uh mentioned exactly that what actually not didn't mention it but the nest video
00:24:57.860has loud crickets going off in the background right at the time and right at the time that uh
00:25:02.860text was sent. So there's a lot of little individual corroborating facts that Twiggs
00:25:09.140provides here. He's the person who can authenticate the note. That's a really important piece of how
00:25:14.880that note comes into evidence, right? Because think about it, in the absence of anybody
00:25:18.440explaining what this note is, you don't know that Tyler Robinson wrote it. You don't know when he
00:25:22.800wrote it, et cetera. So it really does require Twiggs to be on the stand explaining the context
00:25:27.360in which he was told to look for the note where he found it and who could have possibly written
00:25:32.000That's all important information that he's going to be a necessary witness for.
00:25:35.640And he also didn't delete it, as Tyler Robinson said he should.
00:25:38.520He did not delete the exchange, and he did cooperate with law enforcement.
00:25:43.200I'd love, Will, for you to get into Tyler Robinson's frame of mind right now.
00:25:46.780And I don't know how this will play out in the trial in terms of how the jury would convict him or sentence him,
00:25:51.780because I know there is that threshold for count one in terms of the targeting enhancement.
00:25:56.100But as I looked at those text messages, Twigs, you weren't the one who did it, right, Robinson?
00:26:01.120I am, I'm sorry. Now, we've mentioned, I think, even Jack Posobiec yesterday that there seems to
00:26:06.900be no remorse. No, no. That apology to me, you tell me how you read it, is not I'm sorry for
00:26:11.860what I did. I'm not sorry I just killed Charlie Kirk. It's I'm sorry to you, Lance, for involving
00:26:17.320you or the fact that I might not see you again. I don't know if it went through his mind. I might
00:26:23.000be put away for life or I might be put to death by firing squad. But that level of I'm sorry has
00:26:29.120no remorse whatsoever. He was more concerned about his grandfather's hunting rifle than he was about
00:26:34.300what he'd done. That seems to be the frame of mind. I'd love to get your assessment of that
00:26:39.300and how that could play into how a jury will view the actions of Tyler Robinson.
00:26:43.740I think that's exactly right. I think, you know, he's saying I'm sorry to his boyfriend
00:26:48.460on the grounds that, you know, I'm sorry that I have now committed a serious crime that's going
00:26:53.500to lead me to be apart from you. That's sort of how I read that, as opposed to being, you know,
00:26:58.420there was no expression of remorse to the family of of erica kirk i mean he's he's pled not guilty
00:27:03.140he hasn't said anything on that front uh i think in terms of his mindset now i mean he's just
00:27:08.320i i heard yesterday jack described uh about how you know the media who are in the jury box and
00:27:15.260able to see his facial expressions apparently said that he was grimacing and really kind of
00:27:19.140you know not comfortable when when the twigs video was being played i think he knows that he's in
00:27:25.040serious trouble. And, uh, he just, you know, like as, as much as we are annoyed that this continues,
00:27:30.740like he's, he's not going anywhere. He's sitting in jail and he's going to keep sitting in jail
00:27:34.100until trial. And then unless, you know, he manages to get acquitted, which he almost certainly won't,
00:27:38.960he's just going to spend the rest of his life in jail and probably, and his, that life may be
00:27:43.000much shorter than the average life because he may well be put to death. Will, do you, do you think
00:27:49.180he gets put to death? I know I've, I've asked this, I've asked it pretty much of every guest,
00:27:52.640But the reason why I ask is because I'm looking at that jury pool, what it could be, you know, Utah heavily LDS community.
00:27:58.240I'm not saying every person on that jury is going to be LDS, but I'm just wondering about getting the unanimity for that count.
00:28:04.220Does the state go for that? Does somehow Robinson work out a plea deal of life without parole, even though certain elements are not what certain appeals are not waivable?
00:28:11.920What do you think? I think this I mean, I think he gets the death penalty.
00:28:15.540I think that they're, you know, whatever, I mean, the death penalty exists in Utah for a reason.
00:28:20.000I think even if there are some people reluctant to do it, I think, you know, there's nothing that is more deserving of it than political assassination.
00:28:27.200It's just totally antithetical to the way our country needs to work.
00:28:30.480It's the kind of thing that needs to be deterred with a maximum possible sanction that we have.
00:28:34.680And death is the maximum possible sanction.
00:28:36.840All right. Well, Chairman, thank you so much for speaking with us today.
00:33:14.780like, why would he be dressed like that?
00:33:16.380you know it's like of course like in in so so inconspicuously of course he's in trying to be
00:33:23.800incognito but it's it's hot that's my point okay so he comes there's the sorenson center to our
00:33:30.680right and in there is where the chick-fil-a is where he had lunch allegedly and i had the question
00:33:38.740as well uh because this is a secure campus and most modern campuses are uh if he had needed
00:33:44.860access with a key card because it is so open as opposed to maybe some other more private colleges.
00:33:52.700But being that it's a cafeteria style, it's probably just open to the public. We could
00:33:59.260double check, but I think easy access, unfortunately, in this case. So, and then we are continuing on to
00:34:07.340the Lossie Center. Right. So just for reference again, we're not on the exact path because we
00:34:14.300We don't really know exactly which way he went, but we're getting towards the Lossie Center.
00:34:18.620The Sorensen Center is right there, but I wanted to show you there's multiple utility ladders here up along these roofs for access, maintenance access and whatnot.
00:34:30.080Again, though, there's I would say maybe six, seven split levels here, and some are, it's also the ground, okay, the ground, and then it turns into a roof for the next level and so on.
00:34:42.940so there's about five or six of those here with these utility ladders and as we wrap around we
00:34:50.020will come up on the scene but yeah again for reference the sorenson center is is right in
00:34:56.360the line of sight where the chick-fil-a is okay so now we're almost at the vantage point here
00:35:01.420the roof of the lotion center is right there okay and that is the the railing that he rolled over
00:35:12.540okay to get into position this fence here is a construction fence probably because so many people
00:35:18.040want to come and retrace the steps as well that's new but I want to pay attention also to this
00:35:24.420staircase here which you may have come up again just to get even more cover the only other route
00:35:31.020would have been to go the distance of this this level of the roof so we're going to walk up here
00:35:37.480as well. And then we'll show you also where the camera was that has been presented where he jumped
00:35:44.920off the roof. We're atop the Losi Center here along this walkway. Again, so this is a ground
00:35:56.920level but also the roof. So this becomes on the edge out there is the roof and the corner where
00:36:04.840the alleged shot took place okay and then if you pan with me here we can also see from this point
00:36:12.140to this elevation the corner of this building you can see the statue there and that far corner there
00:36:18.060is where the jump off point is and i was there on sunday i estimated to be about 16 feet it's
00:36:27.220quite a drop okay and he didn't jump off uh gracefully let's say okay kind of just fell
00:36:35.460straight down i'm surprised he didn't break his leg or anything like that and then if you pan a
00:36:42.700little farther you could see there's still a security camera on the upper level of this
00:36:48.280building behind us which is where the footage was taken from of you know this this raised
00:36:55.000walkway here and running across the roof again uh we're not trying to really split hairs on
00:37:03.660anything i'm just here to give you contextual footage uh you know during day three here
00:37:09.740for the rav audience um you know from a personal standpoint it's very surreal to be here
00:37:16.220and um it's it's kind of hard to be here too uh walking through it so i appreciate y'all
00:37:22.000being with us and so after this we're going to head down uh to the actual amphitheater
00:37:28.400all right so we are at the amphitheater now uh it's kind of self-explanatory but i wanted to show
00:37:35.780uh the vantage point to my left here uh to the top of the low sea center it's the top roof there
00:37:43.000and sweeping down, um, all the way to the amphitheater itself here. I originally thought
00:37:52.080it was higher. Okay. But, uh, being here, being the carpenter myself and, you know, it gave,
00:37:59.720gave me an appreciation of, so the farther away you are, the shallower the angle. Okay. So it does
00:38:07.480make a lot more sense now. And then with this like pointy roof of the Rosenstein Center, I said,
00:38:12.000well maybe you know so i've been a little skeptical of these kinds of things but
00:38:17.100being here on the ground has uh cleared that up for me in particular so uh again i i want to thank
00:38:25.720you guys for being here with us is very sensitive topic uh it's it's been a very heavy three days
00:38:32.720here um witnessing everybody coming in like charlie's parents even tyler's parents you know
00:38:39.140um and and just the resolve they have uh to get through this erica and don um i can't imagine
00:38:48.240i've spoken briefly with jack as well he's been in there uh grueling it out he's got his rosary
00:38:54.460with him and um but yeah i just wanted to come here i was at the charlie's memorial and in
00:39:01.020Arizona there but uh you know just to help closer for myself and anyone else uh that follows me you
00:39:09.600know it's good to just show up it's more trad I guess uh just to be there you know so uh if you
00:39:16.380will I maybe say a little say a little prayer here as we recap um uh dear lord we just want
00:39:24.620to thank you for everything you blessed us with uh please continue to guide us protect us and
00:39:30.560provide for us in ways that we can for ourselves. And we are grateful for everyone that's here
00:39:38.620to see this thing through. And we pray for your justice to be served. In Jesus' name, amen.
00:39:46.240never ever stop fighting no matter what we will achieve american greatness we are just getting
00:40:03.620welcome back to justice for charlie i'm bo davidson along with benny ray harmony we do
00:40:13.860have Kevin Posobiec with us live from Utah. Kevin, first of all, kudos to such a beautiful
00:40:19.740and intriguing piece that caused us to reflect. I think that yearns for justice. I love the fact
00:40:28.760you ended it with a prayer, which I think solemnly is how and reverently how you should end it.
00:40:33.840Let me just ask you what it was like to retrace those steps because I was in Dallas recently and
00:40:39.360And it had been a while, but I retraced the steps of what would have been the grassy knoll, the book, the depository, you know, with the JFK assassination.
00:40:49.340And it's eerie sometimes to walk the steps of someone who has committed such an atrocity, whereas if it had never happened, it would just be just another street.
00:40:57.160It would be just another campus. It'd be just another stairwell.
00:40:59.580But in your case, you're retracing steps that someone had to methodically plan, premeditate to go hunting, as he would say.
00:41:07.820So I just want to get your take on what that was like to have to go back and retrace those steps.
00:41:14.760Well, Bo, it was harrowing to be there.
00:41:55.180But undeniably, this is going to remain a legendary spot in American history.
00:42:01.060So the campus is actually struggling to, you know, there's a petition now for a statue of Charlie to be there, you know, so either way, it will have lasting effects on the campus itself.
00:42:16.960But, yeah, I don't want to discredit any students, you know, what has happened to them in the, you know, narrative of today where we have an escalation of school shootings, in particular trans shootings, okay?
00:45:27.200It just speaks to a personal character.
00:45:28.900Let me ask you this, because I was going to go down the road right now,
00:45:32.760because I know you've covered so much Antifa and getting into the dark web.
00:45:36.080I really wanted to cover that with you earlier, but we only have about three minutes left.
00:45:40.400We're going to be running this amazing package about Charlie.
00:45:43.040So let's get away from the darkness for a moment.
00:45:45.060Let's get away from the darkness we've experienced this week
00:45:47.720and focus a bit on the legacy of Charlie Kirk, the husband, the father, the speaker,
00:45:53.600the intellect, the influencer that he was. And I don't mean that in terms of someone pulling up a
00:45:59.580phone and getting on Instagram. I'm talking about true influence here before the word influencer
00:46:03.860was a word. Talk about just the light, the light and the darkness that Charlie provided before we
00:46:11.180get to this clip as we close out the show in just a minute. Yeah, so today is the 10-month
00:46:20.300anniversary and the light that charlie brought uh i believe i referenced it i don't know i didn't in
00:46:26.940that exclusive but charlie early on i saw his videos he provided the grounds for debate on
00:46:33.260college campuses that wasn't present when i was there and that hit my heart directly back in
00:46:38.620around i want to say 2020 era uh back you know and i was involved when jack was getting the
00:46:45.820initial interviews with turning point to get on and he inspired me so much to not only
00:46:54.940to not only just speak up believe in my own voice on college campuses but also
00:47:01.500from a from a christianity angle you know we're told to go out into the world and preach the
00:47:06.140gospel not just sit sit at home or be a keyboard warrior getting into arguments but i and i've had
00:47:12.860extensive experience in you know the kensington area philadelphia and antifa rallies because at
00:47:18.700the end of the day it's like yeah it's great to get people on content causing riots but
00:47:22.780when you're really there staring somebody in the face it's almost like the the meme where it's like
00:47:27.820you take two dogs off the leash and then they don't really fight each other but you can really
00:47:33.180challenge someone's beliefs in such a kind and loving way as christians to to convert them and
00:47:38.060And that's the light, though, is that being here in person does de-escalate people and bring them to a grounds of neutrality where we can turn their hearts.