Louder with Crowder - There Are Only 2 Genders (3rd Edition) | Change My Mind

00:00:00.000 But you're a classical liberal in that sense, because even though we disagree, you can sit down, express your point of view, and some people on the left view that in and of itself as adding fuel to the fire.

00:00:09.000 Yeah.

00:00:10.000 And I would argue adding fuel to the fire is simply trying to eliminate voices from the conversation. 1.00

00:00:15.000 That, or just being completely polarizing and just being like, you suck. 1.00

00:00:20.000 Right, yeah. 1.00

00:00:21.000 the world.

00:00:44.000 Now, today's subject is an oldie, but I would argue a goodie, in there are only two genders. 0.99

00:00:50.000 Now, I should note, I first covered this topic on Change My Mind all the way back in 2017.

00:00:55.000 The discussion around gender in the United States and globally certainly has undergone a major transition.

00:01:01.000 No pun kind of intended.

00:01:02.000 We went from the argument back then of gender being socially constructed and existing outside of a binary to now arguing that there are limitless genders and biological terms for sex being used interchangeably with those of gender.

00:01:15.000 She is now the first female and openly transgender four-star officer with the U.S.

00:01:21.000 Public Health Service Commissioned Corps.

00:01:23.000 A transgender female inmate has been moved to a men's prison after impregnating two other biological female inmates.

00:01:32.000 After studying Leah Thomas' times, from male to female, he says, statistically, she is an outlier.

00:01:40.000 So why the drastic change in record time?

00:01:43.000 And how exactly did the students at Texas Women's University rationalize it? 0.51

00:01:48.000 Well, meet Gabriela, who may just have provided my favorite conversation in all of Change My Mind history.

00:01:55.000 See if you can find out why.

00:01:57.000 Steven, nice to meet you.

00:01:58.000 My name's Gabriela, nice to meet you.

00:01:59.000 Gabriela, nice to meet you.

00:02:00.000 Oh, thank you very much.

00:02:02.000 You know what?

00:02:03.000 That's actually an incredible compliment.

00:02:05.000 And I'll tell you why.

00:02:06.000 Because I didn't realize until very recently that everyone's feet didn't hurt their whole life.

00:02:11.000 Oh, yeah, mine too.

00:02:12.000 extra extra wide feet and then I finally found a company they said oh yeah you

00:02:12.000 Yes, sir.

00:02:16.000 just have wide feet you need to buy wide shoes and these are the only shoes that

00:02:19.000 I have now because they're the only ones I can find so I'm glad that they're okay

00:02:22.000 so Gabriella thank you for taking the time sitting down sorry I have a little bit of dry mouth

00:02:29.000 You've been talking for a while.

00:02:30.000 I don't know how familiar you are, if at all, with the kind of change-of-mind concept, but... Okay, so it's an opportunity to sit down and hopefully rationalize our positions on seemingly controversial topics.

00:02:43.000 This is one that, to me, is interesting because I'm revisiting it.

00:02:46.000 I did it years ago, and back then...

00:02:48.000 Will you repeat that again?

00:02:51.000 It's interesting some of the arguments that were presented because we've sort of blown past them today.

00:02:54.000 The idea that sex and gender are different, separate.

00:02:57.000 Well, we kind of don't subscribe to that anymore today.

00:03:00.000 Everyone back then when I would say, hey, I'm concerned about us going on the path of your

00:03:04.000 children transitioning, they would say, that's absurd, that's a logical fallacy.

00:03:08.000 And of course we know that.

00:03:09.000 I'm sorry, I wear hearing aids.

00:03:11.000 Oh, I apologize. Do you mind moving in and I'll move in too?

00:03:13.000 Oh, of course.

00:03:15.000 As long as you're okay with it, I'll make sure to speak into it.

00:03:16.000 Of course.

00:03:17.000 I didn't want to get up in your personal space.

00:03:18.000 No, that's okay.

00:03:19.000 But, for example, I used to discuss concerns, bring up concerns of children transitioning.

00:03:24.000 Back then, they would say, well, that's absurd, that's a logical fallacy.

00:03:26.000 Of course, here we are where it's law in several states.

00:03:29.000 So, that's the reason I thought it would be interesting to revisit it, considering how we've accelerated at light speed.

00:03:34.000 And I still maintain that there are two genders. 0.96

00:03:38.000 And if you disagree with me, I'd be...

00:03:41.000 I'm more than happy to hear your point of view and you can try and change my mind.

00:03:48.000 Okay.

00:03:49.000 So you... And what is your stance on this again?

00:03:52.000 That there are two genders.

00:03:54.000 Okay.

00:03:56.000 I personally disagree.

00:03:57.000 And I know many people that of course do agree with this.

00:04:03.000 Again, I very much disagree because I view sex and gender as two things.

00:04:08.000 And typically, whenever you hear about biological sex, typically it's male or female.

00:04:15.000 Of course, you have people who are intersex and stuff like that, and I do view gender and sex as two different things, and I definitely do view gender as a spectrum.

00:04:30.000 Can I ask you a question?

00:04:31.000 On what do you base that?

00:04:31.000 Yes, sir.

00:04:32.000 Why do you believe that, that gender is different from sex?

00:04:35.000 Why?

00:04:35.000 Yeah, where did you start believing that?

00:04:37.000 So, the definition of sex is that it is biological.

00:04:41.000 So that means chromosomes, hormones... Primary, secondary, sexual factors.

00:04:47.000 And gender is very much a... I don't want to say psychological thing.

00:04:47.000 Yes.

00:04:47.000 Yeah, sure.

00:04:55.000 I know what you mean.

00:04:56.000 Sure.

00:04:56.000 But gender is very much...

00:04:58.000 I know what you mean.

00:04:59.000 Yes, it's very much an identity.

00:05:02.000 That's why typically the term gender and gender identity are grouped together.

00:05:07.000 Sure.

00:05:08.000 And so that's how I personally see that.

00:05:10.000 So what's interesting to me actually, sorry I'll lean in.

00:05:13.000 What's interesting to me is what you're saying is actually what the kinds of arguments that were presented to me years

00:05:20.000 ago.

00:05:20.000 That gender and sex are different.

00:05:22.000 But that's not what's even being taught today.

00:05:23.000 So, for example, you have this administration, Joe Biden, referring to Rachel Levine not as our first woman four-star admiral, but first female.

00:05:33.000 And now when you look on government forms, if you're transgender, you will check the female box, depending on the form.

00:05:39.000 So we are using them fundamentally interchangeably, and I would say the reason for that is because it was only up until very recently that sex and gender were used interchangeably.

00:05:48.000 The idea that they are separate is a very modern theory.

00:05:52.000 I would argue it's not rooted in reality.

00:05:54.000 It started with French existentialism and then through postmodern feminism.

00:06:00.000 And now we end up at the point where no one can agree on how many genders there are or what we should do with children who are transgender because we've decided to tear down an institution but have replaced it with nothing. 0.99

00:06:12.000 So, um... Okay.

00:06:16.000 Sorry, I'm trying to.

00:06:17.000 It's very hard to hear.

00:06:18.000 And please let me know if you don't hear.

00:06:19.000 You need me to repeat myself.

00:06:20.000 I understand.

00:06:21.000 Would you mind repeating that?

00:06:21.000 Yes, sir.

00:06:22.000 Yeah, I was just saying that... You can also turn these up.

00:06:26.000 Oh, okay.

00:06:26.000 I just don't know if it's going to interview with the microphone.

00:06:28.000 So let me know if you need me to repeat.

00:06:29.000 Oh, it's fine.

00:06:30.000 As long as it doesn't touch my hearing aid.

00:06:32.000 Because if it does, it'll be a very loud microphone.

00:06:35.000 Oh no, and I appreciate you understanding that I need to get close and not being uncomfortable.

00:06:38.000 And I apologize for my breath because I've been talking for three hours.

00:06:41.000 No, I completely understand.

00:06:42.000 It probably smells like a turtle cage.

00:06:45.000 No, what I was saying is the idea that gender and sex are separate is very new and it's not used consistently anymore because you now have men and women checking, for example, transgender male to females, checking female boxes, not woman boxes on government forums.

00:07:00.000 You have the Former President of the United States Joe Biden, President of the United States, referring to Rachel Levine as the first female four-star admirable, right, Secretary of Health.

00:07:11.000 They're using, they're using biological terms and the reason for that is that they've always been interchangeable until very recently.

00:07:20.000 That's a very modern change and I would argue that that's why they're not even able to be consistent with that.

00:07:24.000 So I don't understand the basis for someone saying that gender is separate from sex if it's not even agreed upon by the left and transgender activists today.

00:07:35.000 So, you say that it wasn't until very recently.

00:07:40.000 I don't know how recent you're talking.

00:07:42.000 Sure.

00:07:42.000 Yes, I can answer.

00:07:44.000 So it actually, and I would encourage you, if you do, you can go research this, because if I provide people my resources, they think I'm just lying, but I make them publicly available.

00:07:52.000 Started with, there was a lady named, there was someone named Simone de Beauvoir, 1949, was the first person to say that sex is biological and gender is societally constructed, right?

00:08:02.000 This was the first time that idea was floated.

00:08:04.000 Yes.

00:08:04.000 But it still existed within the binary that women could identify as men, but men could identify as women, but not this idea that there were other genders.

00:08:14.000 It was still two, but that it was largely societal.

00:08:18.000 It was reiterated by a few other people.

00:08:20.000 Then, you may have learned this in college, the John Money Twins study.

00:08:24.000 Did you learn that?

00:08:25.000 Where you raised one as a girl, one as a boy?

00:08:25.000 Yes.

00:08:28.000 So yeah, that was taught.

00:08:28.000 I believe it's still taught in school.

00:08:30.000 I don't know if you know, but both of those boys died.

00:08:33.000 One committed suicide. 0.89

00:08:34.000 I believe the other from a drug overdose because he sexually molested them.

00:08:38.000 And the reason that's important is because, as you've acknowledged, that was taught on college campus.

00:08:42.000 If you raise a twin as a boy and a twin as a girl, it was proof that it was societally constructed.

00:08:47.000 But it actually had lethal ramifications.

00:08:49.000 Both of them had all kinds of mental health disorders and ended up offing themselves, which is a tragedy.

00:08:54.000 But it still, even with John Money, existed within the binary.

00:08:58.000 Only until Judith Butler in the 80s and 90s did they say gender is societally constructed and, by the way, there are more than two genders. 0.99

00:09:06.000 And it was not created by, it was not a theory that was floated from scientists, from doctors.

00:09:12.000 It was floated from existentialists and feminists.

00:09:15.000 It's not rooted in reality, and before that, gender was really a grammatical term.

00:09:19.000 You know, from the romance languages, like, I speak... French is my first language, or, you know, any of the languages based in Latin, right?

00:09:27.000 All nouns are gendered.

00:09:28.000 So it's a very new theory.

00:09:30.000 It's not like it's something that's been agreed upon for a long time, and now we've come full circle, where we're using them interchangeably again, because we're calling transgender men to women females.

00:09:42.000 That's a sex term, not a gender term.

00:09:44.000 But those are the terms we use, male to female, right?

00:09:46.000 Typically, man, woman, male, female are used interchangeably.

00:09:52.000 However, I still do believe that they are both very different.

00:09:55.000 Because you say that it's not used a lot today.

00:09:59.000 I'm a pre-nursing student, so we are very much taught that yes, inherently they are different.

00:10:04.000 I've learned that in my anatomy classes, which it's not touched on a lot because you very much do biological.

00:10:12.000 Sure.

00:10:13.000 Well, you would have to.

00:10:14.000 Yes, in psychology it is very much taught that they're two very different things.

00:10:20.000 As for... Can I ask you a question?

00:10:23.000 You said you're in nursing?

00:10:23.000 Yes, sir.

00:10:24.000 Yes.

00:10:25.000 You're studying pre-nursing.

00:10:27.000 Now this matters, right, because, for example, if someone fills out on a government form, right now, they'll fill out their sex and say they're a biological male, but they fill out female.

00:10:37.000 Or when they're admitted to the hospital, right, often it's a biological term, but if they identify that way, they will often fill out, or legally they can fill out, how they identify.

00:10:46.000 Very different metrics, right?

00:10:46.000 Yes.

00:10:48.000 As a nurse, as a doctor, you need to know what you're dealing with.

00:10:51.000 Absolutely, and yes, like you said, on documents now, you can legally do the gender that you identify with, which amazing, great step forward for that.

00:11:07.000 But those people do have to make sure that they're like, hey, biologically, this is what I was assigned to at birth, and you treat them using those metrics.

00:11:16.000 However, that doesn't mean that you don't treat them with respect or treat them In some instances, it's illegal to ask the follow-up question, right?

00:11:26.000 It's discrimination.

00:11:29.000 In other words, if someone comes in who's biologically a male but identifies as female, if you follow up and say, well, were you born a male?

00:11:36.000 You're actually not allowed to ask that question, depending where you are.

00:11:39.000 In certain countries, that's actually considered discrimination, because they identify.

00:11:44.000 Well, even in certain areas, there have been lawsuits in the United States that are right now going up to the Supreme Court, and I think that matters.

00:11:49.000 For example, we now hear men can get pregnant.

00:11:53.000 You know as a nursing student, it's not true.

00:11:55.000 Men cannot get pregnant. 1.00

00:11:56.000 Again, it's very different, because if you view men only from a biological standpoint and not just how they identify, then sure, biologically males cannot be, but if you identify as a male, but you have female reproductive organs, then yes, you can get pregnant.

00:12:12.000 They go into my hospital?

00:12:14.000 Yes.

00:12:14.000 Let's say you're a nurse, they go into your hospital, right?

00:12:18.000 And they identify as a woman even though they're a man.

00:12:20.000 And they take a pregnancy test.

00:12:21.000 If a woman tests positive, that could mean she's pregnant. 1.00

00:12:23.000 If a man tests positive, it largely means he has testicular cancer.

00:12:27.000 Yes.

00:12:28.000 Right?

00:12:29.000 But they don't tell you that they were born a male or a female.

00:12:32.000 This is something that we are facing in our medical establishments right now That's why Johns Hopkins said we won't perform the sexual reassignment surgery He just saw this from the NHS in the UK that they have a problem with it They've removed language from their website because they're finding that there are serious health consequences that come along with this and I would say I understand I think I think I understand where you're coming from.

00:12:52.000 I think you're an empathetic person.

00:12:54.000 And I would say this.

00:12:56.000 I am coming from a place of empathy.

00:12:57.000 I don't hate anyone who's transgender.

00:13:00.000 I do see an astronomical suicide rate, both pre- and post-op. 0.82

00:13:03.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:13:04.000 And I see that as an issue that is not solved through transition.

00:13:07.000 However, I don't think... Again, I don't think that is necessarily a... It is a transgender issue because... 0.84

00:13:17.000 Transgender youth are four times more likely to commit suicide than cisgender youth.

00:13:23.000 And that's a very big problem. 0.83

00:13:31.000 Hey guys, sorry, do you want me to... She has hearing aids. 1.00

00:13:35.000 She has hearing aids and it kind of sets them off.

00:13:37.000 Could you just...

00:13:38.000 No, it's fine.

00:13:39.000 It's just I am all over the place.

00:13:39.000 I don't mind.

00:13:41.000 Okay, that's fine.

00:13:42.000 Is it okay that I ask you that?

00:13:43.000 I'm sorry, I have a relative over here and I know it can just be painful.

00:13:46.000 I'm sorry.

00:13:47.000 No, it's fine.

00:13:48.000 I don't mind.

00:13:49.000 It's just I am all over the place.

00:13:50.000 No, I understand.

00:13:51.000 So, as a, um, okay.

00:13:56.000 That's... Okay.

00:13:59.000 Yeah, sorry.

00:13:59.000 I just wasn't expecting to be experiencing that today.

00:14:03.000 That's because you're an adult.

00:14:05.000 Yeah, I was not expecting to be like, oh, she wears hearing aids. 0.95

00:14:08.000 I didn't know that we were still doing that in the 21st century, but it's okay.

00:14:11.000 Well, it's only because you said it was hurting you with the hearing aids.

00:14:13.000 I'm sorry you're upset that I... No, no, no.

00:14:14.000 I don't mean you.

00:14:15.000 I just mean, like, other people being like, oh, well, she wears hearing aids.

00:14:18.000 I'm just like, I do.

00:14:19.000 No, I was just asking to stop yelling.

00:14:21.000 Yeah, I know.

00:14:21.000 I know.

00:14:22.000 I'm just listening to what they're saying.

00:14:24.000 Oh, you can hear them?

00:14:26.000 Is that one of those where you can hear further away but up close is distorted?

00:14:29.000 I can make it higher.

00:14:31.000 So like, your voice is a little bit lower and I have a hard time understanding lower

00:14:35.000 voices.

00:14:36.000 Oh, okay.

00:14:37.000 So, yes sir.

00:14:38.000 I can make it higher.

00:14:39.000 When I get very worked up it goes up high like this if it helps.

00:14:41.000 But I try and keep it calm.

00:14:42.000 Yes, I completely understand.

00:14:43.000 I think this should just be a very calm conversation.

00:14:47.000 Yes, historically transgender youth, especially in sentences performed by things such as the

00:14:53.000 Trevor Project, it seemed that transgender youth are four times more likely to commit

00:14:57.000 suicide than their cisgender counterparts. 1.00

00:15:00.000 And that goes even higher with people of color, especially Native American slash indigenous people. 1.00

00:15:07.000 And while that is there, I don't think that is a They're committing suicide because I may be a hundred percent Misinterpreting what you were saying how how you meant that whenever you said it But it came off as though you meant that in a way of like they're committing suicide because they're transitioning Yeah, well the sense of like they're almost being forced to transition

00:15:31.000 Let me clarify what I meant.

00:15:31.000 No, no.

00:15:34.000 Because I've sat down with a lot of people today, and the argument is consistently, well, it's because of the mistreatment.

00:15:40.000 And actually, the studies that I've seen are much higher than even four times.

00:15:45.000 Four times is bad enough, right?

00:15:47.000 It's tragic.

00:15:48.000 But actually, there have been studies, Swedish studies, that show it's 19 times, 18 to 19 times more likely.

00:15:52.000 But the number is the same both pre- and post-op.

00:15:55.000 And here's my issue.

00:15:56.000 And I tried to discuss this earlier.

00:15:59.000 American slaves, I think we would both agree, were mistreated, right?

00:16:03.000 Yes.

00:16:04.000 Well, they didn't have the same attempted suicide rate.

00:16:08.000 Jews in the Holocaust didn't have a four-time suicide rate, not even close.

00:16:12.000 Americans pre-civil rights, what I'm saying is people who have been discriminated against and truly, I think we would both agree, abused and mistreated, even if you go to gays, for example, in the United States in the 80s during the HIV epidemic, right, where they were very stigmatized.

00:16:26.000 They didn't have anywhere near this attempted suicide rate, and it exists both pre and post-op.

00:16:31.000 And the reason that I bring it up is because I think that you're, I mean, I think you're a kind person, I think you're obviously a respectful person, but limited time I've had with you.

00:16:38.000 I think it's misframed, for example, where people think if I say the solution is not transitioning or changing the entire societal structure to limitless genders, it's not because my heart doesn't break for these people, it's because Okay.

00:16:53.000 That's a very interesting viewpoint to have.

00:16:54.000 Again, I don't necessarily agree with it.

00:16:56.000 transitioning doesn't make it any better, it may make it worse.

00:16:59.000 Okay.

00:17:00.000 That's a very interesting viewpoint to have.

00:17:03.000 Again, I don't necessarily agree with it.

00:17:05.000 And I say this as a, because I am, I'm a queer person and I grew up in Bible Belt, Texas.

00:17:13.000 I grew up in South Texas.

00:17:15.000 I grew up with very conservative family members, very religious people.

00:17:18.000 And so I've experienced a lot of mistreatment.

00:17:24.000 And so I completely understand.

00:17:26.000 I can see that aspect of it because I have that viewpoint.

00:17:32.000 Whereas people perhaps like you may not, and that was very polarizing, I apologize for that.

00:17:38.000 No, no, no, I understand, and actually... But people from your viewpoint perhaps may not be able to see it, but I do know a lot of queer people do have a lot more of those issues.

00:17:50.000 Not necessarily, but it was because how they were treated.

00:17:53.000 Which is why, again, I don't necessarily agree that it is because it is of transitioning Well, what I'm saying is, for example, and I would like to go back to the term queer, where you can probably educate me, because it means different things to different people, and honestly, I feel sometimes that I don't get a handle on it.

00:18:07.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:18:08.000 Because I've had two queer people sit down and they both argued about what it meant, and I'm like, I'm just going to step out of this one. 1.00

00:18:12.000 But I will say this, you know, I was raised, I am a Christian, more conservative, but I was raised in socialist Quebec.

00:18:18.000 in public schools, where...

00:18:21.000 You're Canadian?

00:18:22.000 I was a dual citizen, but I was raised from 3 to 18 in Canada.

00:18:25.000 And I will tell you this, we actually have something called the Ligue des Langues,

00:18:28.000 meaning the Language Police, where they would actually enforce...

00:18:31.000 I was forced, for example, to go to all French schools until the third grade, where they thought I was learning

00:18:37.000 disabled.

00:18:37.000 And I speak French, but it's hard for me to learn math and, you know, history in French.

00:18:41.000 Oh, yeah.

00:18:43.000 I have suffered from clinical depression in my life, to a very severe degree.

00:18:48.000 So I can relate to it and I have again because I was very much a fish out of water.

00:18:53.000 I can relate to it in a way that might surprise people, even though I'm a white male.

00:18:56.000 I was an English-speaking, half-American, conservative male in a socialist, liberal province that forced me into French schools.

00:19:03.000 And I think that rather than someone saying it was because of the mistreatment, but examining, finally, my issues that I could control, where I did suffer from depression and ADHD, that it helped me a lot.

00:19:17.000 I did have people who enabled it at certain periods of time, rather than getting to the root cause.

00:19:21.000 What I'm saying is, when you look at the mistreatment of groups throughout history, they still don't have anywhere near the attempted suicide rate of transgenders, including queer women, in the Bible Belt.

00:19:32.000 It's still not 4 times or 18 times, so there must be another variable there, and if we shut down the dialogue, we may never actually examine what that variable is.

00:19:42.000 Mm-hmm.

00:19:44.000 Like I said, again, I don't 100% agree with that, especially because I'm viewing it from a youth standpoint of younger, of, say, people my generation, because I know for a fact that our generation probably has the most mental health issues that this country has ever seen, and it's because of circumstances that have happened as we have grown up.

00:20:05.000 Let me ask you this, would you say, are you Generation Z?

00:20:08.000 Yes.

00:20:08.000 Okay.

00:20:09.000 Would you say, and I don't want to mischaracterize this, statistically I would say this is true, but would you say that Generation Z is probably or arguably the most open-minded generation as it relates to these gender issues?

00:20:22.000 Absolutely.

00:20:22.000 Okay.

00:20:23.000 So when you combine that with the fact that your generation still has more mental health issues than all that have come before it, How do you juxtapose that and say it's because of mistreatment?

00:20:32.000 It's the most tolerant generation of all time, and they have more mental health issues than, for example, men coming back from World War II.

00:20:40.000 I think that's actually a great question.

00:20:42.000 Good job for that. 0.93

00:20:43.000 It's not a gotcha.

00:20:44.000 I'm genuinely curious.

00:20:46.000 I know, which is why I think it's an absolutely great conversation.

00:20:49.000 So, the reason I believe that Gen Z does have the most mental health issues is you have to realize that we start, what, the very first year is 1998.

00:21:01.000 So that means that what you have 1999, 2000, 2001, the very first people were in this generation were three years into their lives was 9-11, which was arguably the worst terrorist attack that has happened in the United States and on American soil.

00:21:23.000 Many Gen Z, they don't even remember it.

00:21:25.000 I feel really old when I talk about it.

00:21:27.000 They're like, I don't remember.

00:21:28.000 I'm like, oh boy.

00:21:29.000 I was born in 2003, so I wasn't even there for that.

00:21:31.000 I wasn't even a concept at that point.

00:21:34.000 Yeah, you were prenatal.

00:21:36.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:37.000 But you do have to realize that the world, especially in America, changed very drastically after 2001.

00:21:43.000 It changed very drastically after, there's very much a, and this is taught in history classes, there's very much a difference between Pre 9-11 and very much a difference between post 9-11 and post 9-11 is seen as its own part of history because a lot of things have changed nowadays kids in my generation aren't allowed to go outside because they're too worried about safety whereas

00:22:11.000 People may ask how old you are, is that right?

00:22:13.000 No, 35.

00:22:13.000 So I'm kind of middle, young, millennial.

00:22:13.000 35?

00:22:18.000 Yes, millennial.

00:22:20.000 My parents growing up were just allowed to go outside and their parents didn't care where they were, whereas my parents were like, no, you're a girl, you can't go outside by yourself, even if it is in suburbia.

00:22:33.000 We have to deal with a lot of Because the world is very much changing, and in a lot of places it's changed for the worse.

00:22:42.000 And especially since we have a lot of media that typically just pummels you with all these bad things that are happening in the world, that very much changes a generation.

00:22:52.000 And if you are constantly seeing that, and you are constantly exposed to life-changing things, dead bodies, wars, terrorist attacks, It very much changes your perception on life.

00:23:06.000 And it's very easy for people in my generation to feel hopeless because of that, not because we're open-minded.

00:23:12.000 I believe that our generation is so open-minded because we see all the bad things happening in the world.

00:23:19.000 Because we're like, oh, we can at least be compassionate for one another.

00:23:24.000 That's the very least we can do.

00:23:26.000 In order to make ourselves happy.

00:23:30.000 I will say this.

00:23:32.000 I've changed my mind on issues in the past.

00:23:34.000 I don't think you've changed my mind on this issue, but what you have done is present a compelling argument that I think should be included.

00:23:40.000 I've discussed this in the past, that we certainly do have... Let me put it this way.

00:23:45.000 I don't think that this Generation Z has it harder than 16-year-olds on the beaches of Normandy.

00:23:50.000 I understand why you believe that.

00:23:50.000 No, of course!

00:23:52.000 But I believe they had a sense of purpose, right?

00:23:53.000 That they were fighting an evil Nazi regime, whereas I do think Your point is well taken. 0.99

00:24:00.000 When you combine this constant flow of information, and yes, negativity, with what I do think is, considering this kind of, like you said, post-911, post-war, in the global sense, generation, a lack of purpose, that It's a chronic stressor rather than an acute one.

00:24:19.000 Yes.

00:24:20.000 And I can see how that can be damaging.

00:24:22.000 You have to remember that a lot of those boys that were sent off in the war also, a lot of them typically lied on their things to go off to war because that was something they needed for their families and stuff like that.

00:24:35.000 Some of them wanted to go to war.

00:24:36.000 And they felt a sense of purpose.

00:24:37.000 They wanted to serve their country.

00:24:38.000 At what cost, but they ended up doing that, yes.

00:24:41.000 So, yes, it's very much a chronic stressor of constant things.

00:24:47.000 Like, you have to, like... We have, now, we have Ukraine and Russia.

00:24:52.000 And we're seeing that all over.

00:24:54.000 We've lived through that.

00:24:57.000 We've all lived through a global pandemic, but I was in high school whenever that happened, and I was supposed to be graduating, and we had to wear masks, we had to social distance from each other, and it was very hard to have that social thing as it was for everyone in the world.

00:25:13.000 We've had that.

00:25:14.000 We've had all sorts of things that have happened within our lifetime that are these big global events, which is why I don't think it's... I don't think being open-minded is inhibiting us at all.

00:25:25.000 No, and I wasn't saying... because you're two kind of separate issues.

00:25:30.000 I think we both agree there are more mental health issues with this generation than previous generations. 0.69

00:25:33.000 But what I am saying is that this generation, for example the transgender suicide statistics, don't really change generationally.

00:25:40.000 So you would think that transgenders from, let's say, millennials, from Gen X, 1.00

00:25:44.000 you would think that the rates would be higher there.

00:25:47.000 They're every bit as high with Gen Z. 0.99

00:25:49.000 So I'm saying separate from the suicide and mental health issues at large,

00:25:52.000 the treatment of them is certainly what people would consider more tolerant with Gen Z, 0.99

00:25:57.000 but the metrics haven't improved.

00:26:00.000 And so I would say, well, OK, maybe we need to look to another variable.

00:26:04.000 There is no demographic that has that same attempted suicide rate.

00:26:07.000 There's only one. 0.94

00:26:09.000 It's paranoid schizophrenics. 0.97

00:26:11.000 It's the only place that has a 40, over 40% attempted suicide rate, which is approximate with transgender individuals. 1.00

00:26:17.000 Which brings me kind of to another point.

00:26:20.000 I really do think it's a thoughtful point that you made and I actually would like to go do more research and actually look at the before and after 9-11 mental health issues.

00:26:27.000 I think it's an interesting study.

00:26:29.000 But my question would now bring to you, if we say...

00:26:32.000 First off, can I ask you a question?

00:26:35.000 How many genders are there? 1.00

00:26:37.000 If I say there are two.

00:26:38.000 So, I've actually watched some of your stuff and I know you don't like this answer.

00:26:43.000 I know you don't.

00:26:44.000 I'm so sorry that you don't like this answer.

00:26:46.000 I appreciate that you can probably understand why.

00:26:48.000 Yes.

00:26:49.000 Like I said, I have people in my life that very much are like, there are only two genders and I'm just like, eh. 0.99

00:26:54.000 I do believe that it is an infinite spectrum.

00:26:56.000 I do believe that you can identify with what you are.

00:27:02.000 And so if you identify as someone that's non-binary, I believe that you should be allowed to do that.

00:27:09.000 And I believe that you should be allowed to do that, and people should be respectful about it.

00:27:15.000 I do think that on the number of genders, I don't think there is a limited number.

00:27:19.000 I think you can identify how you want to identify.

00:27:22.000 Typically, people tend to identify as a man, woman, non-binary.

00:27:27.000 But even then, I don't like Because non-binary is an umbrella term.

00:27:33.000 Where it, of course, covers all of these nuanced gender identities.

00:27:33.000 Right.

00:27:37.000 But some people don't like the term non-binary.

00:27:38.000 But then where do you draw a line?

00:27:40.000 Where do you draw a line?

00:27:41.000 For example, and I'm taking an extreme example to make a point here.

00:27:43.000 I'm not saying this is the norm.

00:27:45.000 Yeah.

00:27:45.000 But if someone identifies as a feline.

00:27:47.000 As a feline.

00:27:49.000 This happens a lot.

00:27:51.000 A more common issue is people identify as amputees.

00:27:54.000 This is an issue where medical professionals are having people come in asking them to remove a limb.

00:28:00.000 If you say it's infinite, well then there is no... But what's the number on that happening?

00:28:03.000 Do you happen to know?

00:28:05.000 I would say if it's a hundred, if it's a thousand, if it's any, it shouldn't be a medical quandary as a nurse.

00:28:11.000 You know what I mean?

00:28:12.000 It shouldn't be an ethical quandary, but now it is.

00:28:15.000 And what I would say is, look, we've had two genders, and we understand, I think you seem intelligent enough to know that I acknowledge the 0.01% who are intersex, and these are anomalies. 1.00

00:28:25.000 It's not the same as the transgender issue.

00:28:27.000 I do believe, um, you said 0.01?

00:28:30.000 It's .01 as far as intersex.

00:28:31.000 I believe that that was from a study in 2002, and I believe the number now is about 1.7%, which is about the same number of redheads in the world, so that's like 70... I know that study that they brought up, but then actually we had a, what's his name, a journalist, Scaramucci, I can't remember his name, when I was at UTD, try and bring that up, and in that very study, it actually said the number is closer to .01.

00:28:58.000 So even in that study, they had misread the statistics.

00:29:03.000 It's certainly not over 1%, but we can disagree.

00:29:06.000 It's still very, very low.

00:29:07.000 I would maintain it's not only a 2002 study.

00:29:09.000 There have been studies reiterated since then.

00:29:12.000 But even then, what I would say is this.

00:29:13.000 Let's say it's 1% for the sake of argument.

00:29:16.000 In nursing school, for example, it's certainly a higher percentage of people who are born without a limb than people who are intersex.

00:29:23.000 But you're still taught, in biology class, there are exceptions.

00:29:26.000 Human beings generally have two arms, two legs.

00:29:29.000 For example, you use hearing aids, right?

00:29:32.000 But in biology, I'm sure, in nursing school, they probably teach you basics about the ear drums, right?

00:29:36.000 Basics about the ear canal, and say, and there are exceptions to these rules, but this is generally the human anatomy.

00:29:43.000 We are now asking people to restructure how we teach biology based on a very small percentage, and if we say, well, no, two genders is wrong, if you tear down that, what I would say is a fundamental structure in society, I think you need to replace it with something equally concrete, not, it could change at any time. 0.52

00:30:03.000 You say that we're teaching people that there's more than there actually is.

00:30:08.000 Biologically, we are not.

00:30:09.000 We're not being taught that.

00:30:11.000 As far as sex?

00:30:12.000 Yes, as far as sex, we're not being taught.

00:30:15.000 Sure, it is mentioned that there are intersex people, and I don't think that we should look over those people because they have identities. 0.94

00:30:21.000 No, I don't think we should.

00:30:22.000 Of course.

00:30:23.000 And they present their own set of medical things that you have to look into because nowadays you hear a lot of stories about intersex people who No, I don't overlook, but I'm saying how we teach it.

00:30:44.000 How we teach it is that we have male and female, like you said.

00:30:46.000 They teach two, and they teach there are some exceptions.

00:30:49.000 But they don't teach that there are limitless sexes. 0.83

00:30:51.000 No, because sex and gender again are two things and we are taught that they are two separate entities.

00:30:56.000 But that's not where we are though, right? Because when you have people, again, this would be, I would agree with you,

00:31:00.000 at least the premise.

00:31:02.000 If, for example, consistently male and female were used to describe sex and man and woman were used to describe gender.

00:31:11.000 But they're not.

00:31:12.000 They're not even in a legal sense, when you're talking about proper identification.

00:31:15.000 They're not when you talk about this administration referring to Rachel Levine as a female.

00:31:19.000 They're not even used that way when you say male to female transgender, right?

00:31:22.000 They're talking about... We both agree you can't change your biological sex, but it's MTF. 1.00

00:31:27.000 FTM.

00:31:29.000 Yeah!

00:31:29.000 to female, not MTW, not man to woman, there's no consistency.

00:31:34.000 And the issue is when you combine that with the compulsion of language, for example, in

00:31:37.000 Canada or in certain areas, speech laws.

00:31:40.000 If we say there are limitless genders, then there are limitless pronouns.

00:31:43.000 Yeah.

00:31:44.000 Which I, yeah, I would just, sorry.

00:31:46.000 No, you're okay.

00:31:48.000 And I'm actually learning Spanish because I'm biracial.

00:31:53.000 My mom is white, my dad is Mexican.

00:31:57.000 And so I'm currently in the process of learning Spanish, which is also a romance language.

00:32:01.000 Gendered nouns, right? 0.56

00:32:02.000 Masculine and feminine.

00:32:03.000 Yes, very gendered. 0.99

00:32:05.000 We're one of the few languages that don't have it, actually, in English.

00:32:07.000 It's very common.

00:32:08.000 And again, very much like you said, there is an institution that oversees the use of

00:32:16.000 the Spanish language and what is correct and what is incorrect.

00:32:19.000 And this institution is very much like gender-neutral.

00:32:21.000 gender neutral pronouns aren't to be used.

00:32:25.000 But people within those communities have very much reclaimed that right,

00:32:30.000 especially those in Latin America or people you see here in the United States,

00:32:35.000 which is why you have terms such as Latinx or you have different terms.

00:32:40.000 So that is slowly beginning to change, again, with the times of people having gender identity. 0.93

00:32:46.000 It's not as far as Latinx because the vast majority of people,

00:32:51.000 both in South America, Latin America, and Hispanic Americans,

00:32:55.000 it's less than 2% who like the term Latinx and it's more than 50% who hate it.

00:33:00.000 Across all generations.

00:33:01.000 I know, I know.

00:33:03.000 I don't think that's correct at all.

00:33:05.000 Statistically, it is, though.

00:33:07.000 Again, I think it has to do with generations.

00:33:12.000 I know a lot of young people who very much prefer that term over older people.

00:33:18.000 But then again, those older people... In the United States, not in Latin America. 1.00

00:33:21.000 The older people that I know, again, are the same kind of people that would agree with that they're only...

00:33:27.000 I'm not talking about older people, I'm talking about younger people in Latin America or even younger people in Mexico.

00:33:32.000 They do not like... It's exclusively, respectfully, largely white Americans, to use that term. 0.82

00:33:37.000 Not even young Hispanics. 0.97

00:33:39.000 But let me ask you this, and I would like to go back to the sort of the queer topic, but... I didn't use that term, the queer topic, but the term and how it identifies, because it does tie into this.

00:33:48.000 I have asked this question here today, and understand this is not a gotcha, it is a serious concern for someone like me as a father.

00:33:55.000 The idea now, and when I brought this up in 2018, people said that's absurd, you're trying to be incendiary.

00:34:05.000 The idea of transitioning, of puberty blockers for children.

00:34:08.000 You're a nurse as well, you're going to be a nurse, apologies.

00:34:12.000 Can we find common ground here?

00:34:14.000 I've spoken with some people today.

00:34:16.000 One person who is pro-LGBT agreed with me.

00:34:20.000 One person did not believe that children should be allowed to make those decisions to transition.

00:34:25.000 If we can't find common ground that children are in no position to make permanent decisions regarding their biological makeup and blocking puberty or undergoing gender reassignment surgery, as civil as this discourse has been, I don't think there's any hope to find common ground.

00:34:41.000 Where do you line up on children transition?

00:34:44.000 I personally, just because I think that's completely different from what is being advertised right here.

00:34:51.000 Well, no, let me explain to you why it's not.

00:34:53.000 I think it's a very nuanced topic.

00:34:56.000 I believe that it should be up to the child and the parents, up to doctors, up to... I don't think it should be made illegal because that just... there are very... How do I phrase this?

00:35:15.000 Sorry, I'm trying to get my... I will say, I completely believe it should be illegal for the same reason that 10-year-olds can't consent to sex.

00:35:23.000 Okay.

00:35:24.000 If a child can't consent to sex, why can they consent to a sexual reassignment surgery that will affect their sex life forever?

00:35:31.000 I don't know how, I don't know why we would leave that decision to a child.

00:35:31.000 Okay.

00:35:34.000 Children are not capable, their brains are not developed and capable of making a permanent

00:35:38.000 life-altering decision like that and understanding the consequences.

00:35:41.000 Could we not agree at waiting until they're 18 to make that decision rather than rushing

00:35:46.000 them along as children?

00:35:47.000 I do think that, so again, you use puberty blockers, which is typically used for children,

00:35:54.000 yes.

00:35:56.000 I'm not sure that the rates of gender reassignment surgery in trans children is very high, for the fact that most doctors are not going to want to do that, as it is seen that most doctors aren't wanting to do gender reassignment surgeries, as you mentioned earlier with John Hopkins saying, I don't know about that.

00:36:13.000 So that rate is not that high.

00:36:16.000 Well, it's not hot yet, right?

00:36:17.000 That's the reverse Nirvana thought.

00:36:18.000 Well, since it hasn't happened yet, but if we open it up, for example, there are lawsuits against Johns Hopkins right now, right?

00:36:24.000 Just because we haven't done it yet, it's because there have been archaic fossils like me who say, well, we can't allow children to transition. 0.95

00:36:31.000 If we allow it, you're going to have a much, much higher number, right?

00:36:33.000 We do have to make a decision.

00:36:35.000 Well, I mean, if you use it, if you... That argument is kind of...

00:36:41.000 Um, of, if we don't let people do, if we let people do this, the numbers are going to get higher.

00:36:47.000 Typically, in a lot of things, that's not how it ends up seeing.

00:36:51.000 It absolutely does.

00:36:52.000 With children, it does.

00:36:53.000 Let me give you, and this is something that is, and this is something that is important, again.

00:36:57.000 With children, for example, children who identify as transgender, if you do nothing, if you do nothing, if you don't intervene, the lowest number you will find from a larger study is about 85%.

00:37:07.000 There are numbers as high as 97% of them grow out of it completely.

00:37:12.000 They were a tomboy, some of them were gay, right? 1.00

00:37:15.000 They weren't transgender. 0.82

00:37:16.000 The moment you intervene and you administer puberty blockers or hormone replacement therapy, the number goes down to zero.

00:37:25.000 And by the way, once that number goes down to zero, that means that 100% of those children are now in the 42% attempted suicide demographic.

00:37:32.000 But who's to say that the children that don't get help before aren't also going to be in that same geographic?

00:37:38.000 Because they grow out of it.

00:37:39.000 Statistically, they grow out of it, and it was a phase.

00:37:42.000 It was a phase for most of these kids.

00:37:44.000 It's 85 to 97 percent where they grow out of it, just like kids grow out of a lot of things, right?

00:37:49.000 I don't think that's... I don't necessarily agree with that, because, especially in, again, may I ask, are you in the LGBTQ community?

00:38:00.000 No, I'm not LGBT, but I'm talking about the fact that most of these children, some of them do say, you know what, it turns out, I have a friend actually on the show, said, I thought I was trans, turns out I was just a gay man.

00:38:11.000 So some of those 90 something percent end up being gay or lesbian.

00:38:16.000 But they all grow out of claiming to be transgender. 0.97

00:38:19.000 The vast majority.

00:38:20.000 Only when you intervene and you change the neurochemistry, which we know if you administer puberty blockers or estrogen or testosterone, right?

00:38:26.000 That changes the way the brain develops.

00:38:28.000 Now you've actually changed their course.

00:38:29.000 They grow out of it and no longer identify as trans if there's no intervention when they are children. 0.99

00:38:35.000 But who's to say that they can't detransition? 0.79

00:38:38.000 Because, again, that argument is brought up a lot.

00:38:43.000 It's actually, they've discovered that it's kind of being blown up, kind of out of proportion, the number of people.

00:38:51.000 The media very much blows up the number of people that are detransitioning whenever it's not as big as many people think.

00:38:59.000 They're dismissed and they're marginalized.

00:39:00.000 But, if that number, if that's so significant, and the argument of people transitioning is like, oh, what if they want to de-transition?

00:39:10.000 Why can't you say the same thing for these children?

00:39:13.000 Again, gender reassignment surgery... Because it's the Hippocratic Oath, first do no harm, and puberty blockers, and intervention, hormonally on a child. 0.84

00:39:22.000 Absolutely does more harm than doing nothing.

00:39:25.000 We would have to agree on that.

00:39:26.000 Maybe the harm, some people would argue the harm is minimal, but no one is arguing that puberty blockers do not come with the risk of sterility, a high risk when compared to other drugs.

00:39:35.000 No one is arguing that puberty blockers often stunt growth permanently.

00:39:39.000 Of course we acknowledge that.

00:39:40.000 No one is arguing that administering testosterone to a teenage girl will change her body, her bone mineral density, which to an unnatural degree, no one is arguing that or that estrogen for a young boy will result in developmental abnormalities in their

00:39:55.000 cerebral cortex, their frontal lobe.

00:39:57.000 No one is arguing that those aren't.

00:39:58.000 So in other words, medical intervention when they are a child absolutely does more harm

00:40:04.000 than waiting until they're an adult.

00:40:05.000 I don't think that's up for debate as to what degree of harm, but it does more harm than

00:40:09.000 doing nothing would be my position.

00:40:11.000 See, and again, I'm, I guess I'm looking at this at a very different viewpoint because

00:40:16.000 I'm wanting to be a nursing student.

00:40:18.000 And, um, yeah.

00:40:19.000 You were fundamentally taught that not only is the physical body something that you treat, Mental the mind is also something those are two very interconnected things in order for a person to be healthy Not only do they have to have a healthy body, but they also have to have a healthy mind So with that I'm looking at it at the sense of if these children Again, because me and you look at that suicide rate very differently, which is where I think we're coming at kind of like this

00:40:50.000 I think we both have concern, though, which I appreciate.

00:40:52.000 Just different solutions.

00:40:56.000 Different forms of concern, I think.

00:40:58.000 Because, again, I think that I'm not 100% sure that children should have gender reassignment surgery just because it's a very invasive procedure.

00:41:09.000 I don't believe that they should be able to have that until they're 18.

00:41:12.000 That's just my opinion.

00:41:13.000 If this child is deemed medically necessary to have it for, say, their mental health, then because gender dysphoria is a very awful thing. 0.87

00:41:27.000 But it doesn't improve their mental health.

00:41:28.000 It doesn't.

00:41:29.000 The problem is, in other words, if you were to be able to say, If we intervene, this is medically necessary for their mental health, but the attempted suicide rate stays the same, irrefutably.

00:41:29.000 That's the point.

00:41:38.000 It does not improve post-op.

00:41:41.000 You've now performed, by what you've described, and I agree with you, a very medically invasive, whether it's surgery or puberty blockers, and you've not improved the mental health.

00:41:50.000 As a matter of fact, you could make it worse once that child grows up and realizes, oh my god, I would have grown out of it, but they never were given the chance to.

00:41:57.000 I think... And again, you can medically detransition.

00:42:02.000 Not everybody can with puberty blockers.

00:42:04.000 It's not true.

00:42:05.000 Puberty blockers, they come with some ramifications that can be permanent for many people.

00:42:10.000 Not everyone, but a significant percentage.

00:42:13.000 I do know this because I've seen many videos and case studies of this

00:42:19.000 detransitioning where they do have some of those things and yes there are

00:42:25.000 there's some things that you can't change but which is why I say if you're

00:42:29.000 so worried about them growing out of it don't let them surgically transition

00:42:36.000 until they're 18 again but that I think should be up to the discretion

00:42:41.000 Some of them do not revert back to a normal puberty phase.

00:42:45.000 A good portion of them.

00:42:46.000 The idea that, in other words, we say, well, if you use puberty blockers, it's reversible.

00:42:51.000 Well, it's not always reversible.

00:42:53.000 You know what is reversible?

00:42:55.000 Going through puberty and when you're an adult capable of making decisions, deciding to transition.

00:42:59.000 Yeah, like I said, I do think we're hitting our wall, which is... but that's completely okay.

00:43:06.000 I think we have more common ground than maybe... I understand where you're coming from, and I really do appreciate how respectful you've been.

00:43:12.000 I'm sorry that these hooligans have been yelling.

00:43:14.000 Let me ask you, you said queer. 1.00

00:43:15.000 Yes, sir. 0.99

00:43:16.000 So, to a silly, cis, straight, white male like myself, What is that? 0.99

00:43:22.000 When you say queer, what do you mean? 0.98

00:43:25.000 Some people mean it in different ways.

00:43:27.000 So, you don't mind me calling you sir, right?

00:43:27.000 Yes, sir.

00:43:30.000 No, you can call me whatever you want.

00:43:31.000 Okay, because I know some people... I grew up very much where manners aren't very much a thing and I know some other places it's like if you're called sir, like you're calling them old, that's rude.

00:43:41.000 No, no, you can call me whatever you want.

00:43:43.000 You've been very respectful and I really have enjoyed our conversation.

00:43:45.000 Historically, queer has been used to mean the word strange, odd.

00:43:50.000 Okay, queer. I was like, I was like, I'm so sorry. 0.99

00:43:54.000 Um, so yes, uh, historically queer has been used to mean the word strange, odd.

00:44:01.000 That's very much a thing.

00:44:03.000 Um, I still use it when watching, it used to be a term like on boxing, they say,

00:44:07.000 the guy gets, you know, like clipped, they would say, oh, let's put him on queer street. 0.95

00:44:10.000 And that just means that he's, he's out of it.

00:44:13.000 So it wasn't even a sexual term, it was just like queer street meant you're close to getting knocked out. 0.99

00:44:20.000 But, uh, queer ended up being used as a derogatory term towards LGBTQ plus people, which is, because, of course, words, of course, have their trajectory in history, their usage.

00:44:32.000 It happens a lot with a bunch of different terms.

00:44:35.000 Um, but now, um, the, a lot of LGBTQ plus people, that's what the Q is in LGBTQ, right?

00:44:44.000 It's queer. 1.00

00:44:44.000 Well, not always. 1.00

00:44:45.000 Some people say it's questioning.

00:44:47.000 Some people do say it's questioning.

00:44:48.000 I see it as queer. 0.99

00:44:49.000 It's just very... But the Q is used... Queer is very much, especially in the community, is used as an umbrella term.

00:45:00.000 Just to encompass people that perhaps wouldn't want to identify as anything else, don't prefer other labels.

00:45:11.000 So you're not lesbian, does queer mean that you're, you're not bisexual, but you're not lesbian, does queer mean, what does queer mean then?

00:45:19.000 Because again, I would be like, okay, bisexual, lesbian, I understand.

00:45:21.000 I think, again, I think very much like the whole gender identity thing.

00:45:26.000 I think it's just kind of how you personally identify.

00:45:30.000 I use queer just because I don't feel as though anything else truly encompasses me as a person.

00:45:38.000 You can always tell me if they're too invasive.

00:45:40.000 Do you mean as far as your orientation, or your gender, or both?

00:45:44.000 Typically my orientation.

00:45:47.000 So are you trying both men and women?

00:45:49.000 Yes, I have.

00:45:52.000 So again, it would seem to me that that would fit under bisexual.

00:45:59.000 I don't feel 100% comfortable talking 100% about it, or especially just on camera.

00:46:06.000 So typically people that are bisexual experience, and again you probably are going to hear this and be like, I don't know.

00:46:17.000 Which is why I think it's wonderful to explain a little bit more.

00:46:22.000 I'm genuinely curious because I've had different people give me different definitions of queer.

00:46:27.000 Yes, so um, like I said, queer is very much used as an umbrella term for a lot of different people and I like that label a lot just because it's not ultra specific because again it's just an umbrella term and it's not like I'm picking and choosing at things just because I'm not a huge fan of labels because I realize that a lot of people Right.

00:46:49.000 put you in a box with labels.

00:46:51.000 Right.

00:46:52.000 If you identify sometimes as something, they just view you very much with stereotypes.

00:46:58.000 And I'm not a huge fan of that.

00:47:00.000 Okay.

00:47:01.000 And, um, but bisexual people are, uh, those that are attracted, uh, to, uh,

00:47:09.000 and I know you're gonna hear this and you're gonna be like,

00:47:11.000 That's so cute.

00:47:12.000 what do you mean?

00:47:13.000 Or more, typically bisexual people, the definition within the community and which is more widely accepted is those that are attracted to two or more genders.

00:47:26.000 Right.

00:47:27.000 I thought it just meant two, because bi would mean two.

00:47:30.000 Yeah, which is why I was like, you'll probably hear this and be like, what in the world?

00:47:34.000 Because it would make sense to me if bisexual means you're attracted to male, female, and queer means two or more.

00:47:40.000 That would make more sense.

00:47:41.000 But I have heard this where bisexual doesn't mean two.

00:47:44.000 I'm like, well, why have the bi? 1.00

00:47:46.000 Yeah, that is very hard for people to grasp, but it's very much two genders, or very much two or more genders.

00:47:57.000 Which is, again, that whole concept goes with our... there are only two genders, because especially underneath, like, things such as bisexual or even labels such as pansexual, which is not often talked about.

00:48:13.000 Yeah, I understand it.

00:48:16.000 Pansexual means that you can be queer in orientation and gender-fluid yourself as well.

00:48:22.000 Pansexual means that you are attracted to people regardless of gender.

00:48:33.000 That's how I've always heard it and I have people that identify as that and that's very much how they feel.

00:48:39.000 And how is that different from queer? 0.99

00:48:40.000 From queer, like I said, queer is very much an umbrella term.

00:48:43.000 So it encompasses... So pansexual could go under queer?

00:48:46.000 Okay.

00:48:46.000 Yes.

00:48:48.000 Very much so, yes.

00:48:49.000 Not typically.

00:48:49.000 Typically it is LGBTQIA+.

00:48:51.000 Sometimes they include a P even after the Q.

00:48:54.000 Not typically.

00:48:55.000 Typically it is LGBTQIA+.

00:48:59.000 So I've seen LGBTQAIP at a feminist film festival.

00:49:03.000 And I've seen even AAIP.

00:49:05.000 But I have quite commonly seen AIP.

00:49:07.000 I've never seen it with a P. 0.99

00:49:09.000 So P should go under Q?

00:49:11.000 I'm not saying it should go under Q.

00:49:13.000 It can.

00:49:14.000 It can if that person identifies with that.

00:49:18.000 But Q couldn't go under P?

00:49:20.000 I mean, again, it's whatever you want.

00:49:23.000 Like I said, Q can be used as an umbrella term, or it can be used as its own separate thing.

00:49:31.000 Yeah.

00:49:32.000 Well, look, here's the thing.

00:49:34.000 I'm not going to agree with the changing of the acronym.

00:49:38.000 As long as, unlike the Canadian government, you don't compel me to use that language.

00:49:43.000 Yeah.

00:49:44.000 Whatever you say you are, I'll say, okay, fine.

00:49:47.000 But I'm probably not going to keep adding LGBTQAIP or allow someone to say... Which is why typically I just say LGBTQ. 0.67

00:49:53.000 Okay.

00:49:54.000 It's very simple.

00:49:57.000 It seems like, but then at that point, then it just seems like a Q is the umbrella term.

00:50:00.000 Just say Q.

00:50:01.000 I mean...

00:50:02.000 Because LGBT could all fit under Q. 1.00

00:50:03.000 Well, I mean, again, people very much identify with those labels.

00:50:10.000 There were previous labels that I used that I stopped using because I didn't feel comfortable

00:50:15.000 because a lot of, especially with lesbian, the term lesbian, it has a historical history

00:50:22.000 behind it and I don't want to, not necessarily offend, but I just don't feel comfortable

00:50:28.000 No, that's very much a stereotype for lesbians. 1.00

00:50:31.000 Well, I mean, lesbians can come in all shapes and sizes, all forms. 1.00

00:50:33.000 And then I noticed a lot of women are like, well I'm a lesbian, but I'm not.

00:50:37.000 I have a lesbian I work with who's like, I'm a lesbian, but I'm not that kind of lesbian. 0.84

00:50:41.000 So she says, cue.

00:50:43.000 Even though she's not bisexual, she's a lesbian.

00:50:45.000 But she will say, I'm not a stereotypical lesbian.

00:50:48.000 Well, I mean, lesbians can come in all shapes and sizes, all forms. 1.00

00:50:53.000 You don't have to be...

00:50:54.000 But this lesbian is aggravated by it. 1.00

00:50:56.000 Okay, then... 0.86

00:50:57.000 And she drives a Subaru and she goes, by the way, it's a coincidence, I got a good deal.

00:51:01.000 It's not because I'm a lesbian.

00:51:03.000 And actually we have a lot of fun with it, where she goes, I get the stereotype.

00:51:07.000 And I think that all is good.

00:51:07.000 Look, like I said, I'm going to disagree with the acronym, the language, the fundamental changing of it.

00:51:12.000 We're going to disagree on many things.

00:51:14.000 But I have to tell you how much I've enjoyed the conversation.

00:51:17.000 What I just ask, hopefully, that people can do is when we leave this conversation, understand We come from different perspectives.

00:51:22.000 Absolutely.

00:51:23.000 But I think yours comes from empathy, and even if people might think mine is not, it comes from wanting different solutions and empathy.

00:51:30.000 Conservatives, there's this misinterpretation that if they disagree, it must be intolerant or hateful.

00:51:37.000 It's not.

00:51:38.000 It's just, it's rooted in not only a very different worldview, but I would argue, like, there is a lot of data to reflect We're going down a very dangerous path with like children transitioning and unfortunately you've seen here today people get shouted down and that's something we have to get past even if

00:51:58.000 Even if I was baby Hitler, which I'm not! 0.70

00:52:00.000 I'm just saying that, you know, we need to be able to have these conversations.

00:52:03.000 And I really appreciate you doing that.

00:52:05.000 You know what I think?

00:52:05.000 I think a big part of that is probably because, kind of like me, you know, I was raised as a conservative Christian in a very, very left, right, very left.

00:52:14.000 And not only that, I'm not Catholic.

00:52:15.000 I went to public schools which were all Catholic when I was being raised.

00:52:18.000 So I was forced to understand their perspective.

00:52:20.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:52:21.000 Which is why earlier you mentioned the conservatives are seen as intolerant.

00:52:23.000 in the Bible Belt, Christian conservatives, you've probably had to argue your position.

00:52:29.000 Oh, absolutely. Which is why earlier you mentioned the conservatives are seen as intolerant.

00:52:36.000 A majority of my life I've seen conservatives as...

00:52:42.000 Oh, there was a spider.

00:52:43.000 Oh, jeez.

00:52:43.000 Don't worry about it.

00:52:44.000 I'm very intolerant of spiders.

00:52:45.000 I don't like them.

00:52:46.000 It just fully crawled on me.

00:52:47.000 Oh, God!

00:52:48.000 It's fine.

00:52:48.000 It's okay.

00:52:49.000 No, it's not fine. 1.00

00:52:50.000 I'm going to kill it after. 0.99

00:52:50.000 It's fine. 0.99

00:52:51.000 You're going to find it.

00:52:52.000 Okay, I will.

00:52:54.000 But I grew up seeing conservatives as very intolerant and it was just because the conservative people that I had in my life were very intolerant in the sense of they're not open to conversation.

00:53:05.000 Yeah.

00:53:06.000 Which is why, um, today, whenever I see people walking by and just being like, oh, blah blah blah, I'm just like, you either, one, should ignore it, it's, if, ignore it, or, I, adding fuel to the fire isn't that great, it's...

00:53:23.000 It's just, there's no... If you can't have a conversation about it, nothing's gonna get done.

00:53:27.000 But you're a classical liberal in that sense, because even though we disagree, you can sit down, express your point of view, and some people on the left view that in and of itself as adding fuel to the fire.

00:53:36.000 Yeah.

00:53:37.000 And I would argue adding fuel to the fire is simply trying to eliminate voices from the conversation. 1.00

00:53:42.000 By the way, whether it's... That or just being completely polarizing and just being like, you suck. 1.00

00:53:47.000 Right, yeah. 0.97

00:53:48.000 Well, I don't think that's taking place here.

00:53:50.000 I'm sorry, your name again was?

00:53:52.000 Gabriela.

00:53:54.000 I'm horrible with names.

00:53:56.000 I'll never forget your face.

00:53:57.000 No, it's okay.

00:53:58.000 Gabriela, thank you so much.

00:54:00.000 I really do appreciate it.

00:54:01.000 This was wonderful.

00:54:02.000 I wish that all my conversations could be like this, but unfortunately they're not.

00:54:02.000 Thank you.

00:54:06.000 Yeah, and again, we don't 100% agree on everything, but it's still...

00:54:13.000 No, yeah, and I would defend your right to say anything you have to say to the death, regardless of how much I disagree with it.

00:54:21.000 So thank you, Gabrielle, and I know this has been a long time.

00:54:23.000 Do you have big Halloween plans?

00:54:25.000 I'm gonna go to my room.

00:54:27.000 My roommate left for the day.

00:54:29.000 I think I have to take care of her dog.

00:54:31.000 Don't watch Barbarian.

00:54:32.000 Barbarian? 0.89

00:54:33.000 My dad was talking about it. 1.00

00:54:34.000 He said it sucks. 1.00

00:54:35.000 It's f***ing gross. 1.00

00:54:36.000 Is it? 0.98

00:54:37.000 If you're gonna watch it, I don't want to spoil it for you.

00:54:40.000 I don't know.

00:54:41.000 It's really gross.

00:54:42.000 Like gory?

00:54:44.000 No. 0.58

00:54:45.000 Gross.

00:54:46.000 Like, okay. 0.76

00:54:48.000 This happens early in the film.

00:54:49.000 Okay, you can go ahead and tell me.

00:54:50.000 It'll be fine.

00:54:51.000 The worst thing is, so it's this woman who's in, she's like a victim of a guy who had locked up, had inbred in the basement, and had a bunch of children, and she's obsessed with locking people, and trying to make them her babies. 1.00

00:55:05.000 So she forcefully breastfeeds them, and she's inbred. 1.00

00:55:08.000 Picture the Hills Have Eyes.

00:55:09.000 And she has this stringy black hair, and I was eating ramen. 0.93

00:55:14.000 There's a stringy black boob hair.

00:55:15.000 I feel the need to warn everyone if they're going to see it. 0.92

00:55:20.000 It's really gross.

00:55:23.000 I love horror movies, so I've watched most of the Saws.

00:55:27.000 I can only sit through three before I'm like, I gotta get out of here.

00:55:31.000 It's not a bad movie, but I just warn you.

00:55:34.000 I just saw the trailer.

00:55:35.000 I had no idea what I was in for.

00:55:37.000 So I figured Halloween, if you're going up to your room, you might have that on the docket.

00:55:40.000 Just be warned, don't eat ramen.

00:55:42.000 I probably wasn't going to.

00:55:44.000 Watch a movie.

00:55:45.000 I might eat ramen.

00:55:47.000 I don't know.

00:55:48.000 Don't watch it while eating ramen.

00:55:50.000 Alright, thank you so much Gabrielle.

00:55:51.000 Thank you very much.

00:55:52.000 Of course.

00:55:52.000 I appreciate it.

00:55:53.000 You too.

00:55:54.000 Hey look at that, even Joe Louis is happier.

00:55:56.000 That's just because you stole a whole pie.

00:55:59.000 From the studio.

00:56:00.000 He did do that.

00:56:00.000 Look, Gabriella and I agree on pretty much nothing.

00:56:04.000 And we were able to have a productive civil conversation.

00:56:08.000 One of my favorite conversations ever.

00:56:10.000 Let me know which future installments you'd like to see in Change My Mind.

00:56:13.000 He's pushing me off my chair.

00:56:14.000 Okay, thank you.

00:56:15.000 Which future installments you would most like to see for Change My Mind?

00:56:18.000 Comment below.

00:56:18.000 Hit the like button if you want to see more of these Change My Minds coming on down the pike.

00:56:23.000 As well as, oh my gosh, he's getting into other food.

00:56:26.000 Click one of these other videos that's playing in the box.

Louder with Crowder - November 23, 2022

There Are Only 2 Genders (3rd Edition) | Change My Mind

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