00:00:00.000The amount of precision and intentionality required to take that boat from a floating sheet of ice in the Antarctic 900 miles to a fixed island off the coast of South Africa is almost unimaginable, almost impossible, clearly not impossible, but almost impossible.
00:00:24.420and if they were off just a sliver of a degree they miss that island they sail even hundreds
00:00:32.120of miles more and probably die along with the entirety of their crew they left behind on that
00:00:37.820floating sheet of ice but they didn't they hit the island because of intentionality
00:00:43.080tip what's up man good to see you we've been trading uh trading woes and
00:00:50.120heartbreaking gut-wrenching stories this morning so if the guys if the guys hear that we're down
00:00:57.560in our voice that's why um yeah we we've got a friend whose whose wife uh has been battling
00:01:05.660cancer for six months uh she just passed and you were telling me about some close family friends
00:01:11.960uh that have passed it's like man you kind of start to feel old when and you know some of these
00:01:20.160things that we talked about were were natural circumstances but some of them weren't and but
00:01:25.060you kind of start to feel old when the people around you start dying i don't know i'm not
00:01:30.420trying to be insensitive when i say that but it's weird i have more and more people in my life who
00:01:35.260are passing away i'm like i'm getting old man it's it's wild it reminds you of your own mortality
00:01:40.320yeah i think there's this natural like our next lot of our generation is dealing with a lot of
00:01:48.660deaths and then taking care of our parents but that's like the next big thing yeah yeah
00:01:55.800oof i worry about that too with my mom and just you know she's she's healthy as a horse she's like
00:02:02.140she's in her early 70s she called me three weeks ago and she's like hey i just got back from skydiving
00:02:07.660I'm like, what? She's like, yeah, I just, I thought it would be fun to go skydiving. So
00:02:14.300me and, and my niece, her granddaughter went skydiving together. I'm like, mom, you're
00:02:20.260awesome. Like I love, I think that's actually where I get a lot of my, the, what I call the
00:02:26.280just say yes mentality. Like if there's ever anything new, any other cool opportunity,
00:02:30.500some unique experience, some random thing that you can go do just like, why wouldn't you say
00:02:36.860yes to it but you know how many men are like their default is no like i'm busy i'm tired of this or
00:02:42.780that i can't my money but i'm like you know what speaking of death one day you're gonna be on your
00:02:47.960deathbed and you're not gonna think man i'm really glad i played it safe you're gonna think oh that
00:02:53.820that one thing i could have went and done that i always wanted to do yeah i should have done that
00:02:58.320thing so she's awesome that way it's pretty cool yeah it's so cool it's like randomly i was skydiving
00:03:06.340today i'm like huh you're a 70 plus year old woman she's like i don't care it was awesome
00:03:11.600like all right get after it mom so cool yeah that's great yeah that's great well we got some
00:03:19.360good questions today um yeah go ahead yeah i was just gonna say love look you know keep
00:03:24.880hug your loved ones right definitely make time for it prioritize it i mean that that's important
00:03:32.240okay so well speaking of death and this might not be like this was kind of a morbid transition but
00:03:38.240there's something in the news i wanted to ask you about um what's the guy's name he's a terrorist
00:03:43.300he shot up fort hood nadan or nidal hassan or something like that uh yeah he is he is to be
00:03:50.820executed by firing squad which i think overwhelmingly most people are like yeah good
00:03:56.300whatever but the controversy is this thing's going to be live streamed and yeah everybody's
00:04:03.500up in arms i mean i've seen so much about it i have my own opinions about it but and i'll share
00:04:09.660because i always share my opinion i'm unable that's why we're all here
00:04:14.600but i'm curious what you think about the death penalty by firing squad and also maybe separately
00:04:23.320the, uh, live stream. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, I think the different ways of execution,
00:04:30.800I'm probably a little bit indifferent to, I mean, you know what I mean? Firing squad versus
00:04:36.580injection. I mean, I'm sure there's some morbid ones that we probably should stay away from.
00:04:42.260Maybe, um, I'm indifferent to that. The live streaming it and publicizing it, I think is a
00:04:48.520bad call i think it's a bad precedence um i don't know i just think it's a bad precedence and i
00:04:55.160think you're giving the guy way too much credit right like i think him itching out out of our
00:05:01.640memory and like who is that i don't know who that is like screw that guy right don't make him a
00:05:07.340mortar don't publicize him uh it's all i always like it when we don't use uh people's names that
00:05:16.100did like mass shootings and stuff. Yeah. Cause I'm like, you know, screw them. They don't,
00:05:20.580they don't, they don't get to deserve, um, their words or their name on my lips. And so I think
00:05:26.580it's a bad precedence. I think it's kind of like, I don't know, what are we, what are we celebrating?
00:05:31.700You know what I mean? I, I, I'm not against him being executed, but I don't know if you celebrate
00:05:38.460it. Yeah, I can see that. I don't know. I've, I've, my, my first reaction is indifference.
00:05:44.880I don't care. Like watch it or don't, you can do whatever you want. It doesn't matter to me.
00:05:49.100But on the other hand, you know, I do see it. I guess my, my question is you talk about him
00:05:55.580becoming a martyr. Well, he may or may not become a martyr regardless of whether or not that's
00:06:01.120live streamed. Number one. And, and number two, human psychology, we work on incentives and
00:06:07.900deterrence so i i don't i don't know actually but is this is this a deterrent to to say hey0.56
00:06:15.800like we don't tolerate this and we're going to follow through and we're going to execute you and
00:06:23.120um you know and um i mean part of it i this is going to sound pretty insensitive but like
00:06:31.080i would just love it i'm not i'm probably not going to watch it but it would be interesting
00:06:35.220if the guy just like cried and cowered like a little baby on live tv and then you can see like
00:06:44.720how big of a coward he actually is you know that that would be that would be redeeming then it'd
00:06:49.720be worth it you know he's just like sobbing and just crying and like please and like well0.81
00:06:56.020that that would be good um but i don't know i'm i'm kind of indifferent i don't know i i think a
00:07:04.360lot of this stuff is just distraction like i it doesn't change my life one way or the other i
00:07:08.640think that this this man ought to be brought to justice and a firing squad is completely
00:07:13.060appropriate hanging i think is completely appropriate people say lethal injection but
00:07:17.360we had this woman what two weeks ago who survived two botched attempts at lethal injection it's like
00:07:23.540what are we doing yeah like we're we're being so like sensitive that like we bought so sensitive
00:07:32.760that we can no longer kill people effectively effectively as if we don't know how to kill people
00:07:37.320people have been killing people for hundreds of thousands of years or whatever it is and now we're
00:07:44.040we have to be sensitive to the point we can't even kill somebody correctly i don't know it's it's
00:07:49.060crazy so firing squad whatever i don't know i guess maybe i'm i'm softening to the idea that
00:07:54.400it shouldn't be televised but it is interesting to me that all the people who say we want
00:07:59.920full transparency full transparency full transparency except for that that makes us
00:08:05.960squeamish we don't we don't want full transparency on that it's like well yeah you know i i get that's
00:08:12.940part of it i think um and ultimately you can decide if you want to watch it or not i i did
00:08:18.200hear somebody say that people that he saw that some people are forming like watch parties that's
00:08:22.740kind of gross um i don't plan on watching it i don't again it doesn't impact my life i'll probably
00:08:29.040be watching lacrosse or wrestling with my kids or playing fortnight or something but or hunting but
00:08:36.160i don't know i'm i'm kind of mixed on it a little mixed i i guess we'll see i guess we'll see because
00:08:41.860right we we get what we deserve right so if tons of people watch it's like well then that's what
00:08:48.620we wanted and if nobody watches then you'll there's your consensus that like you know it was
00:08:55.700considered untasteful right for for a bunch of americans i mean that's why i that's i mean that
00:09:01.780what you just said is such an important concept that i think people overlook if you want change
00:09:07.640then you have to change your behavior your your behavior dictates what happens not only in your
00:09:14.840own personal life but also when it comes to politics uh when it comes to entertainment
00:09:19.540people will cry about certain forms of entertainment drag queens for example i'm not i'm not a fan of0.98
00:09:24.900that by any means. I think it's disgusting. I think it's despicable to expose our children to0.97
00:09:31.060that. Now, if dudes want to run around in pantyhose and lady makeup, like do whatever you want, but0.89
00:09:37.280no, I'm not going to expose my children to that. And so what do we do? We make a big spectacle of
00:09:44.420it. We put it up on the news. We create all the stories about it. We put it online. We talk about
00:09:50.840it and then it just gives these weirdos and these perverts more fuel to continue poor behavior i'm
00:09:57.920not saying you should ignore it but your behavior is what determines this people are out looking for
00:10:03.820attention even if it's bad attention and if you give it to them that's their fuel get more movement
00:10:10.400yeah right so let's just be moral let's just be healthy let's not participate in this stuff
00:10:16.000voluntarily as if I need big daddy government or the media or the entertainment industry or the
00:10:21.120sports world to tell me what I should and should not care about like I mean even even with sports
00:10:27.540you know I the WNBA it's like I don't know why anybody would watch a WNBA game when there's
00:10:32.360probably an NBA game on that you can watch and then I see these like grown men like arguing with
00:10:39.340female players on the basketball court and pointing fingers at them and mocking it's like
00:10:44.880what are you doing like why is this so important to you isn't there something better to do with
00:10:50.000your time but man your attention is uh is a commodity that people are after yeah yeah totally
00:10:57.660totally yeah i have this quote back to that loved one our lab one i i saw this yesterday man and i
00:11:04.800thought this was so good kind of regarding our children and it and it's children do not say i
00:11:11.100had a hard day can we talk they say will you play with me yeah you know and I'm like dude that that
00:11:20.480kind of hit home you know as I'm just thinking about the loss of loved ones and whatnot just
00:11:25.560like yeah it's totally right you know and how often do we blow that off right it's like not
00:11:30.080now buddy you know too busy you know and that's their way of reaching out and you know and that
00:11:35.180time passes talking about being old men right those time passes and before we know it our kids
00:11:40.280don't ask to play with us i know i was thinking about that because my youngest the other night he
00:11:47.180i think he had a bad dream and he came in and we kind of like to do pranks and jump scares around
00:11:52.620here we think it's funny so he came into my room and he's like dad and i heard him like i woke up
00:11:58.960and heard him but but i kept my eyes closed and he's like dad and i didn't say anything and he
00:12:04.080kept getting closer and then finally when he was close enough i just scared him and he's like
00:12:09.940why would you do that i'm like why would you wake me up i wouldn't have done that if you didn't wake
00:12:14.540me up and he's like i'm scared and normally i'd be like well go back to your room and i don't know
00:12:21.580the older i get like there's gonna come a point in time and it might be in the next week
00:12:27.060where he's like i don't want to sleep in your room anymore and then i'll miss ever ever like
00:12:33.320it's done i made a post years ago because i was holding my youngest son and i said one day this
00:12:39.560is crazy think about this kit for a second one day you're gonna put your kid down and you're
00:12:46.080never going to pick them up again and you don't know what day it is yeah but one day he's gonna
00:12:54.680not and he doesn't hold my hand anymore i don't know when the last i think there was a time we
00:13:00.480were either going to his sister's dance recital or the grocery store and he asked to hold my hand
00:13:06.600I held his hand. That was like the last time I held his hand. There's going to be one day where
00:13:11.780he's like, he doesn't, he's, he, he doesn't get scared. He doesn't want to come in and bunk up
00:13:17.380with me. And it could have been last night. I don't, I don't know. I don't know when the last
00:13:21.620time is. Um, but yeah, we, I'm a lot more lenient. I guess that happens when you have, you know,
00:13:27.380for your younger kids. Right. And the older kids are like, you were such a jerk to me, dad,
00:13:31.440but you're so easy on him. It's like, yeah, I like him more than you. So deal with it. Yeah.1.00
00:13:36.600yeah i've taken advantage of the time i have with him i i he was always he was my backup plan
00:13:42.720with dealing with you i have this theory too of kids um you know i've got four and and and
00:13:51.000you know we both have a lot of kids uh by by cultural norms and i'm like i've got this theory
00:13:58.920tell me what you think everybody i talk to their their oldest kid is always the best like the little
00:14:04.920saint you know they're just like blessed and and you know ordained by god they're like these like
00:14:11.980good humans and like so obedient and hard-working and intelligent and diligent and then the last one
00:14:21.460is like what the hell and my theory is this is is god wants us to bring kids into the world
00:14:28.840so when we're when we start to form a family and we want to have kids god's like all right let me
00:14:34.060give these people the best of the best so they keep having easy ones and then by the time you
00:14:39.080and your wife realize hey we're done having kids god's like bring in the backups let's get let's
00:14:44.460offload the rest of them but then god's like their season now they're they're ready to handle this
00:14:52.700kid they're ready to handle this soul yeah all right man well let's get to some questions today
00:14:58.560we rambled enough here i think yeah yeah absolutely all right derek vaughn i've been
00:15:03.640divorced three years and i'm starting to date again my kids are nine and twelve when do you
00:15:09.140bring someone new around your kids and how do you know she's worth introducing super good question
00:15:15.540it is a good question nine and twelve is hard man i don't know kip how old were your kids when you
00:15:20.440guys went through when you went through your divorce oh man they were i mean
00:15:25.600four four and two five and three you know but i didn't start dating until they were
00:15:35.220five years later so 10 you waited five years to start dating again
00:15:40.480um i started dating but not like seriously like i i i was the dude that like no woman gets to meet
00:15:49.740my kids until it's really serious so i i swung that pendulum too far i think yeah it generated
00:15:57.000its own problems well the reason i asked their ages is because so i so when i went through my
00:16:02.340divorce three years ago i would let's say i had a 15 year old a 12 year old
00:16:06.860nine year old and a seven year old and i think when you go through a divorce
00:16:15.480the kids that are older it's easier for them because they're older more mature they kind of
00:16:21.040can wrap their head around it to some degree and the kids who are younger that don't they're kind
00:16:26.340of ignorant about it they don't really quite understand so i don't think it impacts them as
00:16:30.640as heavily but that nine and 12 year old stage i i had two right in that right in that stage right
00:16:36.880there it was hard on that man really right yeah because they're old enough and mature enough to
00:16:43.420understand what's going on and they don't like it. Uh, but they're not old enough to quite wrap
00:16:49.280their head around why this is happening and what's going on and what does it say about them? And they
00:16:55.520start to place blame on themselves. So I think you really have to be pretty conscious of the ages,
00:17:01.400you know, with them being those ages, I, in hindsight, I would be significantly more sensitive
00:17:08.500to that than i would if i had kids who were 15 16 17 8 years old 18 years old got it um yeah i would
00:17:16.640just be i again in hindsight i dated pretty quickly probably too quickly if i'm being honest um
00:17:22.000yeah and in hindsight i would not have done that as fast because those age categories are tough
00:17:29.240they just are they seem it seems to be um as far as introducing you know i think i think you don't
00:17:37.200want to have a revolving door, right? Like I, I wouldn't want to just introduce my kids to every
00:17:43.560person that I go on one date with. Uh, I think I, I would really consider starting to introduce
00:17:52.940when it becomes serious and it has the potential of being a longer term situation or potentially
00:18:00.780a life, a lifelong partner. As a general rule of thumb, I might, I mean, maybe it's four weeks,
00:18:07.940maybe it's eight weeks, maybe it's 12 weeks. You know, I lean somewhere around the two month mark,
00:18:13.680like if I had to just like randomly throw out a number, because I think after a couple months,
00:18:17.940you really start to understand that this is somebody I want to spend a significant amount
00:18:21.480of time with. And I would like to bring them into my world and I would like to be in their world.
00:18:25.640Um, and then the only other thing I would say with that, when you do decide to introduce your
00:18:31.160children to the woman that you're dating is honesty is the best policy. When I started dating,
00:18:37.680I, I lied to my kids. I wasn't being malicious. I, I, it was no ill will. Um, I, but I never,
00:18:44.940I didn't tell them I was going on dates. I'd say I'm going to hang out with a friend or I'm going
00:18:48.740to do this thing when really what I was doing is going on a date. And in hindsight, I should have
00:18:53.980just told them, Hey, I'm going on a date and, and just been clear and direct with them. So when you
00:18:59.480do decide to introduce this woman to your kids, just let them know, Hey guys, look, this is a
00:19:05.160woman I'm dating. We've been dating the last several months. And, um, I've told her a lot
00:19:10.680about you guys. She's interested in what you do. And, um, I really like her. I care about her. I
00:19:16.540want to bring her into my world and you guys are part of my world. And also I want you to know that
00:19:21.840just because you're meeting her doesn't mean that this is a forever situation it doesn't guarantee
00:19:27.440that she's always going to be the one in in my life she's not here to replace mom um she she
00:19:33.720she may or may not be here in the next couple months but i care about her enough that i want
00:19:39.660to bring her into what we're about and i want to introduce you guys to her and i would just be
00:19:45.900be radically transparent about what the situation is and then let the kids work through it you know
00:19:52.680just let them process it let them work through it be there and available for them i would not
00:19:56.980spring it on them like hey you're gonna meet cindy tonight it's like no you're gonna meet
00:20:01.620cindy next week right like we're we're gonna we're i'm gonna bring her over she's gonna come
00:20:07.800over for dinner um or or or we're going to a movie and i just want she's gonna come to the
00:20:14.000door and meet you guys really briefly, but like prep them. Don't just spring it on them. I think
00:20:19.620that's a fair way to do it too. Hmm. I love it, man. Yeah. It's solid advice. You know, it might,
00:20:26.120the funny part about me is, um, it ended up becoming a measuring stick for the girl, uh,
00:20:35.180for the girls that was dating. Right. So if I delayed it, yeah, yeah. So if I delayed it,
00:20:40.700if I had delayed too much, they're like, haven't met the kids yet. Are we, are, are you not
00:20:46.440interested in me? Like it was this, it was this thing that I was like, no, I'm just overly
00:20:52.060sensitive about it. Right. But, but the girls I was dating were bothered. Right. When I waited
00:20:57.820too long, uh, to introduce them to the kids, it was kind of a funny dynamic that I didn't ever
00:21:02.940think about. I mean, I think there's soft ways to do it too. You know, like maybe talking with
00:21:08.840the kids about who you're on the phone with and who you're talking with or what their kids are
00:21:12.780like long before you even meet them what are what are their kids into where do they live what are
00:21:17.420they about so they start to process and wrap their head around okay dad's dating this woman
00:21:22.040she's got a couple kids this is what she does for fun this is who they are this is what she's like
00:21:27.260it's not like a shock when she shows up yeah right it's not like boom all of a sudden it's
00:21:31.940like here's this woman meet her that's weird yeah yeah all right tom kessler my oldest left for
00:21:40.540college in august and the house feels different i spent 18 years thinking my job was to raise him
00:21:46.640and now i don't know what my job is what does fatherhood look like once they're out of the house
00:21:52.360i mean this is the identity crisis we talk about all the time you wrapped up your identity in being
00:21:57.820a father and i i've often talked about this is like yeah i i'm a father i love being a father
00:22:04.860i care obviously about my kids uh and yet my oldest just graduated and i don't see him very
00:22:11.660often i sent him a message the other day and i just said hey bud are you coming over tonight i
00:22:17.400miss you and he's he's again he's the first he's like the blessed child or whatever and so he's
00:22:23.620like, Oh dad, yeah, I miss you too. And he called me immediately and we just caught up for 20
00:22:28.320minutes or whatever on the phone. Um, so I I'm just on the front end of this. I, I, I haven't
00:22:33.820really experienced this very much. Fortunately I have kids still at home. Uh, yeah, but I, I think
00:22:39.280you can still be a father. It's just a different role. It's like maybe a good analogy is imagine
00:22:46.420if you're playing, you're playing football and you're a linebacker and you go to a new team,
00:22:53.160you go to play college and the coach says, Hey, you're not, you're not a linebacker anymore.
00:22:56.300You're a defensive end. Well, you're still a football player. You're just, it's a different
00:23:01.740role. You, instead of being a linebacker, now you're a defensive end. And I think the same is
00:23:06.160true in this situation. You're still his father. Uh, I I've often said your job as a parent is to
00:23:11.860render yourself obsolete. And I still believe that to be true, but that doesn't mean that I can't
00:23:16.580engage with my kids once they're out of the house. It doesn't mean that I can't have conversations
00:23:21.120or, or we can't, you know, talk about deep, important conversations and topics. And I can't
00:23:27.720be there for them when they're struggling with a thing. Uh, I think you're in, you're in support
00:23:33.960mode right now. Whereas before you may have been more in, I don't know what mode you'd say, but
00:23:41.020you're, I mean, you're actively engaged in raising this kid and keeping them alive. And now you're
00:23:46.820in a support role i mean you're you're there as a support like you're not even on the football
00:23:51.460field anymore you're on the sideline coaching helping if they get injured they come over you
00:23:58.040nurse them back to health or whatever um you're in a support role so i don't know you you have
00:24:03.720you have probably more experience on this than i do kip so what do you think yeah got three boys
00:24:08.520out of the house you know when you brought up a football the football analogy what i thought
00:24:12.920you're going to say is it's like you're the football coach and he graduates high school
00:24:19.420and starts playing college ball but every so often he'll call up his old coach and get advice
00:24:25.480but he's playing for another team and his focus is elsewhere but you're still his coach right
00:24:31.560that's that's I I like that like that feels right to me um how's this so super funny dude I
00:24:37.960And we were all raised different. So what I thought I was going to do when my kids turned 18 is wash my hands of them and I would never have to deal with anything. And every so often they would stop by. That's what I thought was going to happen because that's how I was raised. And that's not the case. I'm still very much engaged in my boys' lives. It's just different, right?
00:25:03.260And, and we're now we're navigating different things together, like marriage and careers and, um, philosophy. And we're, we're having different conversations, but man, I, I'm loving this phase. Like my three boys, I want to hang out with them.
00:25:20.120yeah like not because they're my children i want to hang out with them because i like them as human
00:25:25.680beings and they're awesome guys and they're funny and we crack jokes and we have a good time
00:25:32.400together and it's it's interesting it's so it's such a different um kind of mode of fatherhood
00:25:39.400um but i love it right and and and we're just navigating different things now and and i'm not
00:25:45.860as assertive, right. With my opinion, I wait until they might want to ask for advice every
00:25:50.800so often. I'm like, Hey, can I give you advice? And they're far more respectful now than they've
00:25:54.480ever been. Um, cause they, and, and they're just kicked in the nuts a few times and they're like,
00:25:59.960Oh no, maybe dad knows what he's talking about. They appreciate, they appreciate some advice
00:26:04.640now. Yeah. So it's just a different navigational time, but, um, it's wild, you know? I mean,
00:26:11.800And Kyabe, he just got married, what, like four weeks ago.
00:26:15.600That's our first kid married before, and that's just a wild thing
00:26:20.200because now we're like in-laws and, you know, these other parents
00:26:24.980that will try to steal our kids' time away from us.
00:26:28.660You know, that's a whole other dynamic.
00:26:30.420And we're like thinking, like, how do we – actually, you know,
00:26:34.500one thing that a good friend of mine, I was chatting with him,
00:26:38.480and i was like hey how do you how do you how how do you get your kids to always be around all the
00:26:42.900time because his kids are always spending a lot of time with him even though they're out of the
00:26:47.680house and he was like we do epic stuff all the time that's why if we didn't do epic stuff they
00:26:55.020wouldn't want to hang around us as much they wouldn't want to be around yeah and so him and
00:26:58.520his wife have like really strategized like how do we get them to hang out with us and you know and
00:27:03.160when we did a hawaii trip last summer you know surprise they'll get back out of that idea oh no0.82
00:27:09.800yeah everyone's like we'll all be there so like oh what do you know that's interesting if we had
00:27:15.000christmas at home doing nothing maybe they wouldn't have come right so it's like you know you kind of
00:27:20.560have to adjust a little bit and try to entice them to stick around well and also you're the
00:27:25.620benefic i mean oh so that must have been so hard for you and your wife to be in hawaii at the
00:27:30.760expense, you know, sacrificing. So your kids would hang out with you. So you get to do epic
00:27:35.300stuff with your wife. And by the way, you can do more epic stuff with your wife when your kids are
00:27:39.680out of the house. And then also they get to come around and it's like kind of the best of both
00:27:44.600worlds. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. It's funny. Look at us talking like old man stuff
00:27:50.680here. All right. Marcus Ellison. Uh, how do you stay consistent with something for years when0.96
00:27:56.840the results stopped being exciting a long time ago? Well, why are you doing it? Yeah. I would
00:28:08.040ask myself that. Why are you doing it? If the results are no longer exciting, you have some
00:28:15.060decisions to make. One is a decision of being pragmatic, right? So for example, going to the
00:28:21.900gym. It's the law of diminishing returns. Every time you go in, your results will be diminished
00:28:28.680over time. If you're a hundred pounds overweight and you start training, you're going to lose weight
00:28:34.480and build strength really fast. And then over the course of six months, a year, two years,
00:28:40.040five years, the results that you experience are incremental, but you don't stop going to the gym
00:28:46.680because it's no longer exciting you keep going to the gym because you know it's a prudent decision
00:28:54.600and it's in the best interest of your health and your life and the people you're trying to serve
00:28:58.780but if there's other things that you're doing maybe it's a hobby maybe maybe it's hunt let's
00:29:06.460take hunting i love to hunt it's exciting to me but i've talked with a lot of older men
00:29:11.700who don't have the same thrill about it as they once did and they would much rather go
00:29:18.620with their kids or their grandkids and watch them hunt they don't even hunt they just want
00:29:23.480to watch their kids hunt uh but let's just say for the sake of argument you've lost interest in
00:29:30.080that okay so don't then don't do it who why do we think that just because we've done a thing
00:29:39.460in the past that we need to continue to do that if it no longer interests us now again i'm making
00:29:45.220the distinction between what is good and wholesome and prudent versus what is no longer serving us in
00:29:51.820some way and i don't know what what this guy is talking about i don't know which camp his question
00:29:57.160falls into but i think there's two camps and if there's something that just is no longer exciting
00:30:02.960to you, fine, go find something else that's exciting to you. But if it's your job, I'm not
00:30:11.420telling you just to leave your job. You have duties and responsibilities and financial obligations.
00:30:16.180If it's going to the gym or eating right or reading scripture and going to church, I'm not
00:30:22.240saying just don't do it anymore because you don't like it. But I think I'd figure out which camp
00:30:27.660it's in first. And if it's the latter where, where it's just something that's you don't need
00:30:33.000in your life, but you have enjoyed it in the past, just dump it or table it or sideline it and do
00:30:38.160something else for a bit. But if it's something that you have to do because of the type of man
00:30:43.380that you want to be, then I would find joy in the journey, joy in the process. Stop looking at it so
00:30:50.920much as a result oriented situation. Like I, you don't go to the gym so you can lose weight
00:30:57.400anymore. You go to the gym because that's what a healthy man does. You don't, you don't go train
00:31:03.840your mind and your body or read books because all of this knowledge and you're going to be amazing.
00:31:08.920And you're going to be like Einstein. No, you do it because there might be just a little snippet
00:31:13.320of information that you pick up that will help serve you, your family, or your clients better
00:31:17.920today. You don't go to work because you're going to be the next CEO of a fortune 500 company.
00:31:23.620You go because you like to see the business grow. You're engaged in the business. And this is what's
00:31:30.600required of a man who's to protect and provide for his family. So I would find, I would try to
00:31:36.380find joy in the process, even the gym. Here's one thing I've started to do is, you know, I have a
00:31:43.860long way to go with regards to my health and it's been pretty on track over the past several months
00:31:48.800but when i go to the gym what actually makes it exciting is not me losing three pounds like like
00:31:57.380i can lose three pounds or gain three pounds in a day because i'm a dude like this is how it works
00:32:02.060so that doesn't really entice me anymore but you know what does doing a bench press flawlessly
00:32:09.680so i might back up on the weight a little bit and do it to perfection perfect form if i'm doing you
00:32:19.280know uh you know cable bicep curls for example it's like okay back the weight down and do the
00:32:26.780isolate the bicep and do the the movement correctly take pride in that not the fact that
00:32:33.320you're you have the pin on the lowest setting but that you're doing a perfectly formed cable bicep
00:32:39.160curl. That kind of stuff is fun to me. And that's finding joy in the process as opposed to the
00:32:44.380results. I love it. You know, one thing that comes to mind with Marcus's question is this idea of
00:32:51.280drifting. And I think we might be doing a lot of things in life that are good for us,
00:32:58.340but we're doing them from the perspective of drifting, not at a choice. And I think sometimes
00:33:06.440this isn't about like, oh, you know, and I'm not disagreeing with what you said, because I agree
00:33:11.000with everything that you said, Ryan, but I also believe that in some cases we could be doing the
00:33:16.540thing that we should be doing, but we're doing it in this spirit of drifting. Well, I'm doing it.
00:33:21.220Why? Well, because, you know, it's expected of me because of social pressure, because it's always
00:33:25.480been this way and we're not choosing it. Like we haven't thought through it and thought I'm doing
00:33:32.220this why because i want to right because i'm making a conscious choice here and when we
00:33:38.680reduce that choice that agency from the decisions we're making it's not exciting why because there's
00:33:46.460this built-in like i'm just going along this is why people get in jobs that they can't stand
00:33:52.780and they just stay there forever it's convenient it's you know i'll put my time in i'll be
00:33:59.460recognized someday, but they're drifting and their heart's not there. And so I'm not saying
00:34:04.880just quit the job. Maybe it's choosing the job that you're in choosing what you have right in
00:34:11.600front of you and going, I'm going to do this. Why? Because I choose to, and I'm going to make
00:34:16.420the best of it. Right. And that will in itself just empowers us to show up substantially better.
00:34:22.740And then just, you know, to put out this caveat, if you look at it and you're like, no, but I don't
00:34:28.120want to be here, then come up with the plan to move. Okay. Well, I'm going to, I'm, I am going
00:34:32.980to stay here, but here's my time window. This is what I'm going to do. And this is where I'm going
00:34:37.220to use it to project me forward into another role or another situation. Now there's purpose
00:34:43.780around what you're doing and you're just not doing it because it's expected of you.
00:34:50.200I like that, man. I, as you were saying that I was thinking, okay, so we've got drift on one hand
00:34:55.920And I totally agree. I mean, there's societal drift, there's relational drift, there's just burnout, right? But the opposite of that is what? Intentionality. I'm reminded of, so one of the best books, and every man should read this, is called Endurance.
00:35:13.620It's about Ernest Shackleton's ill-fated adventure across the Antarctic, and I won't ruin it for you.
00:35:20.020A lot of guys are very familiar with it at this point, but this came to mind as you were saying that.
00:35:24.740When they got stuck in that ice, Shackleton and I believe it was one other person, one other man.
00:35:33.580he was the navigator got into into the rescue boat and attempted to take this very small
00:35:41.980wooden boat across some of the most inhospitable seas in the world if i remember correctly 900 miles
00:35:51.540to an island off the coast of south africa don't quote me on this i'm i'm just trying to recall so
00:35:59.900the story the story will make sense the amount of precision and intentionality required to
00:36:09.700take that boat from a floating sheet of ice in the antarctic 900 miles to a fixed island off
00:36:21.920the coast of south africa is almost unimaginable almost impossible clearly not impossible but
00:36:30.200almost impossible what kind of intentionality do you think it would require for any human being
00:36:38.380on the planet to do something like that and if they were off just a sliver of a degree
00:36:43.640they miss that island they sail even hundreds of miles more and probably die along with the
00:36:52.580entirety of their crew they left behind on that floating sheet of ice but they didn't they hit
00:36:58.520the island because of intentionality i i'm just that story is just mind-blowing to me and it just
00:37:06.400goes to show the power of the human spirit uh it goes to show the resolve that we have when our
00:37:13.020backs are against the wall and it goes to show how important it is that we are very deliberate
00:37:18.120and intentional about what we're trying to do in our lives and if you're not you might get lucky
00:37:23.160sure you might but the odds of it are significantly reduced and i and i have to say this intentionality
00:37:31.340of action and intentionality of thought how often do we sit with thought drifting thought oh i hate
00:37:41.000this circumstance and then that's it and we lack the intentionality of well what am i going to do
00:37:47.880about it what does this mean what action should i take i i hate this social situation great what
00:37:54.980are you going to do yeah but we we're not intentional even with our thought process which
00:38:00.720a lack of intentionality and thought generates a lack of intentionality of action and i just want
00:38:07.620to call that out right because people we sometimes think well i'm acting so thus i'm being intentional
00:38:13.320no you can be drifting in action right those guys could easily just drift with the ocean
00:38:19.440and lack the intentionality to get to their destination well this is why when you ask
00:38:24.440100 people if i asked 10 people on the street today i said hey man how you doing
00:38:29.080nine of them maybe 10 of them would say i'm doing good i'm busy
00:38:32.980yeah what is that okay so like why are you telling me that what i mean i do it too right
00:38:42.400like i say that that's my default too as if busy is the goal i don't want to be busy i want to be
00:38:49.080productive i want to be efficient i want to do things i enjoy but i just don't i don't want to
00:38:54.680be just busy. So I like that. I like what you said. Here's an interesting thought. Have you
00:39:00.560Kip ever been, and I can think of a handful right off hand here, been in a situation where maybe
00:39:06.980it's a, maybe it's a Halloween party. We've got Halloween coming up. You go to a Halloween party,
00:39:11.080neighbors, and everybody's getting together and you go and you're like, God, this is stupid.1.00
00:39:16.060I don't want to do this. I don't want to be here. I don't like these, this is dumb.0.99
00:39:20.220and then you look around and everybody else all the other men in the area like are having fun0.99
00:39:26.140they're they're there they're engaged they're laughing they're playing games you know they're
00:39:32.360just having a good time what's the difference well not the environment the the environment's
00:39:38.640the same for both of you the only difference is your attitude about it and i have had in moments0.97
00:39:44.100of clarity, been just a bummer, just a downer, you know, just a jerk with my family when I'm at0.98
00:39:52.980an outing or an event, you know, being a party pooper. And in a moment of clarity thought,0.96
00:39:58.500you know what, like, I'm not going to be this way. I'm actually going to have fun tonight.
00:40:03.820I'm going to have a good positive attitude about this. And lo and behold, all of a sudden that
00:40:09.340evening becomes pretty dang enjoyable. Same set of circumstances. I just made a decision to show up
00:40:15.660better. Yeah, totally. I love it. All right. Nate Brodeer, I got passed over for a promotion last
00:40:24.760month and the job went to a guy I trained. I've been with the company 14 years. Part of me wants
00:40:33.340to walk. Part of me thinks that's just my ego talking. How do you tell the difference between
00:40:38.780pride and knowing your worth well i mean it's definitely ego talking i mean i can hear it in
00:40:45.700your in your question right i got passed over by a guy i trained walk i've been here for 14 years
00:40:51.300like it's definitely ego i'm not saying it's unwarranted i'd be frustrated too i think most
00:40:55.660people would the question is not should you be frustrated about it or not the question is what
00:41:02.580do you do with that information so yeah maybe maybe you do feel so disrespected so overlooked
00:41:12.240that you should find another place to work and i'm i'm willing to entertain that idea
00:41:17.660i think most people say oh no just like put your head down no i'm willing to explore the idea that
00:41:23.620your company doesn't appreciate you to the degree they should and in that case yeah you should and
00:41:30.040you should have been doing this all along. This is one thing I tell guys who are employed just
00:41:34.400because you're employed doesn't mean you can't be unemployed tomorrow. So you better be out there
00:41:41.440networking. You better be formulating connections. You better be making sales calls. You better be
00:41:46.780in at industry events. You better be around the movers and shakers. Even if you're completely
00:41:52.360satisfied with your job, you better be doing that. Because if something like this happens,
00:41:58.620you can say, hey, look, I really appreciate the last 14 years. I was really looking forward to
00:42:05.520that promotion. I think I deserve that promotion. And ABC company over here seems to think that what
00:42:11.200I offer is going to be pretty valuable. So peace. I'm out. But you can't do that if you haven't been
00:42:19.360doing this in the meantime of building these networks and building social capital. So I'm
00:42:24.620willing to entertain the idea that you should leave now i'm not saying naturally like automatically
00:42:29.720you should because maybe there's a real reason and this is where self-reflection comes in and
00:42:36.340i think this will help you overcome your ego your ego is lying to you okay your ego is telling you
00:42:45.340that you're more valuable than you are that you're probably better than you are that you're more
00:42:51.000capable than you are, that somebody owes you something because of 14 years, that you train
00:42:57.560this guy, so now you deserve it, you're next in line. Those are all lies. That is not true.
00:43:05.000None of that is true. Where it starts to become healthy is when you stop lying to yourself
00:43:12.360and you start honestly assessing and evaluating your performance.
00:43:16.500so I would start with saying okay why did I get passed over for the promotion and don't say well
00:43:24.560because of nepotism and because politics and like no some of that may be true I'm not saying that
00:43:32.780it isn't but you can't do anything about that what you can do is your performance I always laughed
00:43:38.840you know when I was even still like sometimes I'll hear kids who will say oh yeah well or even
00:43:44.880parents like my kid doesn't play because the coach plays these other kids and his favorites
00:43:50.580you want to know what coaches want to do
00:43:52.800win i've never met a coach who's like i don't really want to win
00:44:00.660that's the only thing coaches want to do is win now you might not agree with how they do it okay
00:44:08.700that's a different story but they're gonna put players in we're gonna help them win
00:44:14.340that's it you might not agree with that strategy that they're implementing but they're trying to
00:44:20.520win like why is that confusing so what it shows me is that we're just lying to ourselves we're not
00:44:27.860being honest about the way that we're showing up and i would do some deep reflection i would also
00:44:32.480talk with my supervisors and say hey i was i was really hoping that i would get a shot at this
00:44:37.120promotion and i've done a lot of reflection here's where i think i'm strong here's where i think i'm
00:44:42.360week. And by the way, you should say that to your supervisors. And I'm very curious
00:44:46.680from your perspective, what is it that I can do so that should this opportunity present itself in
00:44:54.080the future, I will be given a very serious consideration for the position. This is the
00:45:00.380self-reflection that's required that gets you over the ego, the lies that you're telling yourself.
00:45:05.940Totally. And Ryan, you said it perfect, right? Because most guys would be tempted to say,
00:45:10.060hey could you let me know why i didn't get the promotion if you guys hear ryan didn't say that
00:45:15.240he says what do i need to do so i don't get overlooked for a future promotion that's a
00:45:21.340different story right one is judgment one is seeking clarity for a future state right you're
00:45:27.380going to get a better answer from the supervisor when it's the latter right not a you know why
00:45:33.480didn't you promote me here's the funny thing too to consider marcus they probably knew that you
00:45:39.380would potentially be upset and they still promoted the other guy like let that sink in they knew that
00:45:48.320this would probably because anyone logically would be like hey you know how is how is nate
00:45:53.040going to respond he's been here longer yeah but the other guy's more ideal for the promotion so
00:45:59.940they probably knew and they still promoted the other guy so there's obviously probably a gap
00:46:05.660right? Assuming it's not the other problem of favorites or, you know, some other them not
00:46:11.720seeing your value. So yeah, I would get super clear on the value. And one thing that I would,
00:46:18.280like a tip that I've done in the past for people is another way that you can have this conversation
00:46:25.300is, hey, boss, when an opportunity for promotion comes up in the future,
00:46:31.840I want to ensure that I'm the ideal candidate for it. What do you need to see from me over the next
00:46:40.120six months to ensure that you feel great about that decision? And then you document it and you
00:46:47.180execute and you follow up. So don't wait six months, a month later saying, Hey, this is what
00:46:53.600I'm doing. This is what my plan. Have you seen the results? Am I progressing in the right direction?
00:46:58.460oh yeah you are okay great follow up in another next month right and and validate you own your
00:47:04.780career you validate what's required you step in and you hold them accountable to their commitment
00:47:10.360of the promotion based upon your adjustments that you're making yeah i like that i like that a lot
00:47:16.960i and and i would also say i i want to underscore this because i i kind of glossed over it i don't
00:47:22.160want it to be a throwaway line but when you are talking with people about your performance
00:47:28.100you need to acknowledge your weaknesses men won't do this they'll they'll just say all the things
00:47:36.160that's good like oh i do this and i do this and i do that and all that might be true but what's
00:47:42.600interesting is just because you don't say it doesn't mean people don't see it so if you're
00:47:51.620maybe you're maybe you're not you don't have a whole lot of attention to detail you know you're
00:47:55.980diligent, you're fast, you work hard, you get there on time, but your attention to detail is
00:48:00.700kind of horrendous. You should say that. It's not like if you say it, this is the first time
00:48:07.340they're coming to this revelation. They already know. Yeah. But what they want to know is that
00:48:13.860you know. You know it. Yeah. So you can actually fix it. And you know what's interesting? The same
00:48:19.840is true about romantic relationships too. Guys will date women and they'll say, I'm this and
00:48:26.220I'm a provider and I'm strong and I'm capable. And they'll list all the things like on a resume,
00:48:30.760all the things are great at. And then, and then she'll say, well, like, what is it that you're
00:48:35.600trying to work on? It's like, uh, I'm trying to work on being more humble. You know, like whatever,
00:48:40.480right? Just like throw away bull crap answer. It's like, no, tell, tell her, you know, maybe0.99
00:48:47.000you're impatient. That's me, right? And it's okay to say, you know what? Yeah, I do these things
00:48:52.640well, but I know about myself that I'm impatient and that's something I'm actively working on.
00:48:57.220That is way more endearing to a woman or to a client or to a boss than just bloating and beating
00:49:07.160on your chest and telling them how wonderful you are when everybody else around you can see exactly
00:49:12.560what your flaws are and you seem to be the only one who doesn't acknowledge it totally you know
00:49:19.380it's last week i had a debrief with one of my clients i had this you know pretty large engagement
00:49:24.560and we did a a debrief or aar which we call it right or you boys you guys call it in the military
00:49:31.920and we call it in the iron council and um it was funny because at first it was like grabbing i mean
00:49:40.340it was just like, I couldn't get them to give me any feedback. Right. Oh, the positive is all great.
00:49:45.500Right. Oh, this was so great. This is so great. Okay. What can we improve? No one would say
00:49:49.040anything. Right. And, and so I went first and I was like, well, okay, well, here's the areas that
00:49:54.260I think, um, I could have improved on. And I, I went off my list making it okay. And it was funny
00:50:02.140is once I did that, then they're like, Oh, you know what? One thing that comes to mind. I'm like,
00:50:05.700no, they had that in their mind. They were just unwilling to probably share it until they hear
00:50:10.160me share it. And it was a really great experience. I walked off with feedback with some additional
00:50:16.000things that I didn't consider for myself. And before we wrapped up the call, Ryan, this was
00:50:20.140what was so funny is this HR leader goes, he's like, you know what, Kip, I've hired and dealt
00:50:29.000with tons of keynotes speakers throughout my entire career. And every single one says they
00:50:36.260want to do this. They want to debrief and get feedback. He's like, not once have I ever heard
00:50:41.880anyone share what they did wrong. He's like, dude, that was awesome. We don't question your
00:50:52.800integrity or your desire to be great at what you do because you're the first one that's ever even
00:50:58.340saw their own flaws in what they did. They're like, thank you so much. And I'm like, no, thank
00:51:04.680you right like i i appreciate you guys you know having this call and blah blah blah but but it
00:51:09.160was like profound to your point it made a massive difference and in our relationship for sure is
00:51:16.160better off for having had that conversation you know what's really interesting about this concept
00:51:22.100kip is if you do it i'm gonna i'm gonna hesitate a little bit on the way i say this but because we
00:51:28.320have to do it for the right reason otherwise it becomes it can't be but yes when you learn this
00:51:34.920skill set it's almost a weapon it is so disarming to people and so you have to do it for the right
00:51:43.880reason but imagine this and i'm gonna i'm gonna make up a few things about about asia and i i0.92
00:51:49.420don't know if this is true or not but let's say you guys yeah it's a blast here online but let's
00:51:55.100say you guys are you're upset with each other about something anything right and you've been
00:52:00.260frustrated the past couple of days with each other and she this is accurate right so far so good yeah
00:52:05.880well you didn't hear me but like tongue-in-cheek i said when you're like something i said well
00:52:10.580actually everything okay yeah okay and so she comes to you and she says hey um i've been thinking
00:52:19.020about it over the past couple days and I want to say that I was really upset and some of the way
00:52:28.880that I responded was a little irrational and I owe you an apology because I know I can be quick
00:52:35.660to judgment and I can be a little flippant at times and I also know that my emotions tend to
00:52:43.900run a lot of my decision making and i just want to tell you i'm sorry for that i can be more
00:52:49.560rational when we have these situations yeah like like are you gonna are you gonna think less of her
00:52:58.120or are you gonna are you gonna be is it more endearing it's like oh my gosh like thank you
00:53:04.160refreshing and it goes back to what you said i already thought those things about her anyway
00:53:09.200totally so totally so it's not like she's exposing something i'm like oh my gosh i didn't know this
00:53:14.800about you of course i knew this about you but man it makes me feel good that you're aware of it
00:53:20.080yeah right and that we're aligned and what are what am i more likely to do the same no you know
00:53:26.380what i was a little overly emotional as well i overreacted as well right and we and we create
00:53:31.860psychological safety when we create this environment where we can admit our shortcomings
00:53:38.480and have some humility to do the conversation and the complete opposite is true when we double down
00:53:44.520what do we invite when we double down in pressure we invite that same pressure and resistance in
00:53:49.860return yeah so i i just wanted to put the disclaimer out there of weaponizing because
00:53:56.140i've seen guys do this faulty humility i've seen i've seen men do this i've heard stories of men
00:54:01.620doing this and they're good really good very manipulative i had uh one of my stepfathers
00:54:08.260was this way very very manipulative and knew how to use that strategy as a weapon not as something
00:54:15.220that was sincere and genuine yeah yeah all right nate we we gave you a solid answers on that one
00:56:10.160I'd say, Kip, um, Hey, uh, I've got to have a difficult conversation with you.
00:56:18.700And, and, and I'm going to pause real quick. Jefferson Fisher, it talks about this. A lot
00:56:24.200of people, what they'll do is they'll do the, um, I think he called it like a gratitude sandwich
00:56:28.660or something where it's like, you give a compliment and then you give them the bad
00:56:32.280news and then you give another compliment. Yeah. Don't do that. You just, there's no,
00:56:37.080there's no, there's no bread on the sandwich. Just get the meat to them. Yeah. So I have to
00:56:42.560say this really quick, Ryan. I have, I have literally communicated with an employee after
00:56:47.500termination conversation and they weren't sure if they had got terminated or if they got promoted.
00:56:54.660Cause you were complimenting them so much. I didn't do it. Another manager did it. They had
00:56:59.860no idea what was going on. Right. They're like, well, he was saying that like, I've been doing
00:57:04.200so great and appreciated me. And then they're like, but we're going to have to, and they even
00:57:08.700use the word terminated. They use the term, like, we're going to have to make some pivots and
00:57:13.880adjustments with your position. You know what I mean? Like, so they'd be like, am I getting
00:57:18.780promoted? Yeah. And you're like, uh, no dude, you got fired. I was like, Oh my gosh. So yeah.
00:57:27.060Be very clear. Yeah. And so, so back to the role play, I'd say, Hey Kip, I need to have a
00:57:33.260difficult conversation with you uh we've talked about this in the past about x y and z and as i
00:57:39.380said you do x and y very well but z continues to lag behind and from a business perspective
00:57:44.760i've wrestled with this but i am making the decision at this point to let you go i love you
00:57:53.180i care about you i want the best for you i am going to you can stay a couple more days or
00:58:01.240you know, whatever, whatever, whatever you, whatever your situation is. Um, I will help
00:58:05.780you find another job. I will give you a good, an honest, but a good recommendation. And I hope that
00:58:12.180this doesn't hurt our friendship, but this is the decision that I am going to make as the owner of
00:58:19.440this business in the best interest of what we're doing here. Yeah. Now, when you say that again,
00:58:26.420You might, it might, he might be pissed and it might really hurt the relationship, but you know what you did? You acted with honor. You acted with integrity. You owned the conversation and you were a man. Like you can hold your head up high. Cause here, here's the alternative. This is, this is not the way to do it. Hey Kip, um, you know, I want to have a conversation. I really, I love having you here.
00:58:55.880you do such an amazing job everybody loves you and you help our clients and you've really helped
00:59:00.280us grow and man it's just been so good having you here but you know like some of the people around
00:59:06.200are kind of having a hard time and we're we're businesses slow these days and we're trying to
00:59:11.960like restructure and organize our business the right way and i hate to i don't want to i really
00:59:17.760don't want to i i hate to have to do this but like we i can't afford to have you here anymore
00:59:22.800please like don't be mad i don't want to ruin the relationship it's not even my decision like i'm
00:59:28.340kind of forced my hand is forced i have to do this now look i'm exaggerating right yeah but that is
00:59:34.940how people have conversations and that's not how a man would have that conversation a man says i am
00:59:42.300making this decision for these reasons i hope this does not impact our personal relationship
00:59:48.720but also this is my decision yeah there's a good scene in um in Apollo 13 I love this scene Tom
01:00:00.760Hanks John Lovell is talking to Gary Sinise and I can't remember Gary Sinise's character but Gary
01:00:08.340says do you want me to go talk with the guy upstairs and Tom Hanks playing John Lovell says
01:00:14.740no this was my call to keep him from going on the on the mission
01:00:21.400John Lovell says no you don't need to talk to anybody upstairs this was my call
01:00:28.680that is how men have difficult conversations no this was my decision you don't need to go talk
01:00:37.720to anybody else I'm not dumping it on anybody else this was a decision that I made for these
01:00:43.340reasons and then you just have to let the chips fall where they may yeah and and what's i think
01:00:48.800a profound thing to consider here is weak leaders when they terminate people employees don't have
01:00:56.600the clarity to learn and grow but when you terminate correctly there's the opportunity for
01:01:04.280them to grow from it because you were clear why they're being terminated but when the termination
01:01:10.120is shrouded in all this gray and it has nothing to do with you as a person how do you grow from
01:01:16.160that oh you don't you're just an unfortunate bystander due to some riff well but you made
01:01:22.400it on the list for the riff why did i end up on the list because you're not good in these areas
01:01:28.180that i can do something with right that i can leave and go got it i need to improve in these
01:01:35.360areas. And so, you know, you look at those scenarios, it was like, which one serves the
01:01:39.640individual being terminated. And it's the one where we, where we're clear, where we, um, are
01:01:45.980straightforward in our communication and provide the necessary details so they can do something
01:01:50.480with it. Yeah. So not only is it ideal for us, right. But it's ideal for the individual.
01:01:55.980i just as a a trait or or personality of mine i hate ambiguity and i don't know many people who
01:02:07.500appreciate it it's hard it's hard to get fired or get dumped or whatever but i would much rather
01:02:18.440have that you respect be on the line forever yeah when i was in sales it was we would all
01:02:24.940I was trained in sales to get to a yes, obviously, or a no. Those are the only two things.
01:02:34.120There's no, there's no ambiguity. So when I started going on sales calls for my financial
01:02:38.720planning practice, let's say I'm going to visit you, Kip. I'm like, Hey, would you like to move
01:02:42.760forward with this plan? Ideally you'll say yes, but you might say, well, I don't know. Gee, let
01:02:48.600me think about it. I'll be okay. Hey, look my, and the way I was trained to say, Hey, look,
01:02:53.540I understand you have to think about it. How long do you need? Well, I need, I need a couple days.
01:02:59.520Okay. So on Wednesday, I'm going to call you and that'll give you the time to think.
01:03:06.140And I'll either hear, yes, you want to move forward or no, I'm not interested at this time.
01:03:10.680And you'll give me a reason why it doesn't fit for you. Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. I can, I can
01:03:16.440deal with that. Now, if I call you on Wednesday and you're like, yeah, I don't know. I'm still
01:03:20.380thinking, here's what I would say is, Hey Kip, look, I know these are big decisions to make.
01:03:27.360Is there information that I can get you that would help you make a better decision? No,
01:03:30.620I just need to think about it more. Okay. Well, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to assume
01:03:34.320at this point, cause we had this conversation that you're, that it's a no. And if any point
01:03:40.200down the road, you change your mind, you have my phone number. I do not deal in ambiguity. I don't,
01:03:46.260do that. It's a yes or it's a no. That's it. Yeah, I love it. Research, University College
01:03:56.740of London took a large sample size of individuals, connected them to these wires to give them
01:04:04.740electrical shocks. Three groups were created. One group, they told you would not get shocked
01:04:11.880even though they're connected you will receive zero electrical shocks group number two you will
01:04:17.640absolutely get shocked and group number three is you may or may not get shocked which group had
01:04:25.520the highest levels of stress oh the may or may not i'm sure yeah it's uncertainty yeah right
01:04:33.280uncertainty is far worse than bad news yeah so it's like clarity is kindness even if it's bad
01:04:41.340news. The uncertainty is, is where people get sideways. This is why, this is why riffs or like
01:04:48.100layoffs and organizations are so rough. They're rough. One is because there's no clarity of why
01:04:53.640they chose the people they chose. They think they're saving people that way, by the way,
01:04:58.020they go, Oh, well, you know, we're, we're not attacking anybody. We just chose the sample of
01:05:03.34010,000 people to lay off. Well, guess what that means for me? That means I could randomly be part
01:05:09.500of the next group and it's not based upon merit. Awesome. And, and when, if anyone's ever been part
01:05:18.000of an organization that has had layoffs, dude, productivity just tanks because everyone's
01:05:23.260uncertain. They're like, I don't want to bust my ass today in this job and like, give them all my
01:05:28.440heart if I'm gone next week. Right. And so everyone sits around in this yuckiness of uncertainty and0.97
01:05:36.020it was curated by leadership because of their lack of courage to actually communicate why they're
01:05:42.300laying off whoever's they laid off right so they just be vague instead it's it's complete cowardice
01:05:48.540that's that's what it is it's coward you're just trying to preserve that's it's self-preservation0.97
01:05:54.080yeah i would definitely be in this like if i could volunteer for a group i'm so dumb i want i'm0.77
01:05:59.540actually like i want to be in that second group because i'm curious like what kind of shock like
01:06:03.580does it hurt? Like how much, like I'm so dumb. Sounds kind of fun. I want to know what the0.98
01:06:08.680shock is like. I'm very curious now. All right. What do we got? All right. Um, let's do this as
01:06:17.220the last question, Kip. Okay. Sounds good. All right. Jesse, uh, Whitaker, my 13 year old would
01:06:24.620rather be on the screen than in the mountains with me. Do I make him go or wait for him to come
01:06:30.720around. No, you make, you make him go. What do you mean? Wait, wait for him to come around.
01:06:36.620Yeah. You know what? I think that's an overall strategy. In fact, Ryan, I think your next book
01:06:41.940is wait for them to come around. It's the title. Just wait for them to come around. You just do
01:06:47.720you and you just wait for your kids to come around. You don't need to parent them. Just,
01:06:52.220just wait. No, you may come around. You make them go, but you know, but you also look,
01:06:58.900i'm not i'm not being a hard ass like take him into consideration you know maybe he doesn't
01:07:04.680want to go hunting but he'll go camping or maybe maybe include him right yeah maybe include him0.72
01:07:11.440and say hey bud like we're going camping this weekend he's like i don't want to go it's like
01:07:14.440well we're all going as a family so let's wrap our heads around it but why don't why don't we
01:07:18.400do this why don't you come to the grocery store with me and why don't you help me get the food
01:07:23.940and the packing list for, for groceries and we'll cook, we'll cook together. Um, or, you know,
01:07:29.660what, what's a thing that you would want to do? Like, do you want to try fishing? Maybe go fly
01:07:34.180fishing. Do you want me to rent some side-by-sides and we'll go hit the, hit the sand dunes? Like you
01:07:39.840can take people into consideration and make it fun and enjoyable because you do like, if you take him
01:07:46.360and you are going to, you're not going to wait for him to come around, then you should really
01:07:51.380bust your butt trying to make it something that he actually really enjoys. So the next time you0.84
01:07:57.440guys go do the thing, he's like, Oh no, I remember we did that. And that was a lot of fun.
01:08:01.920Hmm. Totally. Totally. You know what I've done a couple of times? I'm sure you've done this Ryan
01:08:06.740is put your kids in charge. Yeah. Like I I've done that ham. I remember, I don't know why this
01:08:14.140trip is coming to mind but i took the boys uh snowshoeing uh we went snow camping and we got
01:08:21.140into some gnarly gnarly space and it was getting dark um the snow is just insanely deep kids are
01:08:30.960getting wet because they're sweating and we're trying to keep our heart rate down it was it was
01:08:35.880gonna it was a rough night to say the least and i remember one of my boys was in the back and he was
01:08:41.540like dad i'm having a hard time right and i was like all right and i i we paused for a second
01:08:47.320and then i was like all right ian i need you to lead from the front your responsibility i need you
01:08:53.780to make us a clear path so it's easier for the rest of us you don't mean to get to a campsite
01:09:01.440right can you do that for me dude lights up you know it's like yeah man i got this you know it's
01:09:08.440like man so like let your kids stop having them be the passenger to the camping trip right and
01:09:16.880and put them in charge of something put them you know you lean on them you know uh figuring stuff
01:09:22.820out and and it's amazing what our kids will do when we give them some mantle responsibility
01:09:28.040and even that hardship almost becomes a badge now they're not having to put up with it they're
01:09:33.740enduring it right and they're pushing through it why because they're in charge and they're not just
01:09:39.060being told what to do yeah no i agree i mean i had a funny experience uh when we came back from
01:09:46.160the lake uh this summer at your place um i just i i was tired but i also again just give as much
01:09:54.260responsibility as reasonably appropriate and i just said hey dude you're to my oldest i'm like
01:09:58.840you're you're driving he's like you want me to drive i'm like yeah you're driving home
01:10:01.820and so he drove home and it was awesome like I got to hang out there and relax a little bit he
01:10:07.720drove home he was feeling pretty proud he got us there obviously safely like it was good but
01:10:12.660the more that we give yeah the more we give our kids responsibility like you're talking about
01:10:18.760the more they feel included the more bought in they are the more proud they are of the thing
01:10:23.640that they're doing and so yeah maybe with your son it is saying hey look um you're in charge of
01:10:29.280food saturday like breakfast lunch and dinner what what are we doing i'll be here to help you
01:10:34.700but like what are we you tell me what we're doing and we'll go get the food together i'll help you
01:10:38.700prepare it and cook it but but you're in charge that to a young man a 13 year old is like cool
01:10:44.340that's that sounds fun i'm yeah i'm i'm down for that yeah yeah yeah i love it cool man well we
01:10:52.220got the typical calls to action right probably the iron council and you know we're all in this
01:10:57.160holiday season right years coming into an end you know and we i feel like we've said this every time
01:11:03.200during this time of season for the last eight years don't wait until january don't be lame
01:11:08.280if you know you need to improve in areas of your life there is no tomorrow that's a word that
01:11:14.020represents something that doesn't exist you got today so what are you doing about it and stop
01:11:19.220drifting and start taking some action so join us in the iron council to learn more go to order
01:11:24.120man.com slash iron council. Um, let me throw one other thing in. Oh, sorry. Go. Yep. Keep going.
01:11:30.140You're going to hit it. Keep going. Oh yeah. We have our war room, um, on October 14th.
01:11:35.820Yeah. So tonight as of the release of this episode. Okay. Yeah. So, um, and that's 6 PM
01:11:41.800Eastern and that's order man.com 8 PM Eastern 8 PM Eastern. Okay. And that's order man.com
01:11:49.380slash war room to register and attend that call okay yeah do they need to register ahead of time
01:11:55.520to get the link or can they just go to that url and join last you can i mean we'd like to have an
01:12:00.520idea of how many people are going to be there so i could be prepped and ready for everybody but um
01:12:04.620if you go to order a man.com slash war room you can get rsbp'd if you're just hearing this late
01:12:09.580and you're like oh i want to jump on go to order a man.com slash war room because at eight o'clock
01:12:14.060that link will take you directly to uh to to the war room to to the actual got it uh room itself
01:12:21.840and we're going to be talking about five fears that you need to overcome as a man and specifically
01:12:27.940how you're going to do it and then we're also going to weave in uh some ways that the iron
01:12:31.800council is going to help expedite that process for you because you could i mean you could do it on
01:12:37.600your own a lot of guys are they're playing they're playing alone they're playing solo um but when you
01:12:43.240start banding with other people it's pretty incredible how quickly and how much traction
01:12:48.620you pick up as fast as you do so we'll talk about that as well but order a man.com slash war room
01:12:53.540all one word sweet all right guys appreciate the questions appreciate uh you guys tuning in
01:13:02.740and being present hopefully we'll see you tonight in the war room and then we'll be back on friday
01:13:07.540for our friday field notes but until then go out there take action and become the man you are meant
01:13:12.400to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your
01:13:17.720life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.