Order of Man - Gifts with Strings Attached, Embarrassing Habits, & Protecting Your Children from the Digital Realm ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 Who am I? I'm honorable. I'm a man who tells the truth. I'm a man who can recognize things that

00:00:07.620 are what they are and I don't, I feel like I'm courageous. Those are all things that can exist

00:00:13.840 regardless of any existential circumstance. And once you start to get to those types of

00:00:19.940 things that define you and you're a chess player or a painter or a CFO and a CEPA,

00:00:25.640 You can do whatever and still meet the criteria of who you actually are.

00:00:31.040 Alan, what's up, man?

00:00:32.240 We are recording this on a Sunday evening.

00:00:35.920 I was going to say I delayed the episode, but the truth is you delayed the episode because you were watching NASCAR and more interested in that than you were recording this podcast today.

00:00:46.300 Well, I think that's fair.

00:00:47.820 That makes sense.

00:00:48.600 And most of the listeners would agree.

00:00:52.100 About what?

00:00:53.140 NASCAR?

00:00:53.540 or that you that they were waiting on you the priorities there is nothing in a man's world

00:01:00.040 more important than racing cars um subject to debate and maybe we can debate well yeah it was

00:01:10.500 funny because well you you do race cars you race rc cars and i haven't probably raced an rc car for

00:01:19.400 a very long time not to diminish it by any means but i remember when you told me that i'm like oh

00:01:24.440 that's interesting but i see what you and your crew and other people do i'm like okay this is

00:01:28.920 like a legitimate thing and i think it's actually pretty cool yeah yeah we have a blast doing it

00:01:34.800 you know this is um you know a sponsor i'm a sponsored driver i travel the northeast u.s and

00:01:40.640 you know the weekend long races and uh it's a big deal to the to the manufacturer sponsors

00:01:48.260 hire sponsors that we show up we we run hard and and show up as good representatives to their

00:01:55.360 companies but is it a sport we debate it a lot it's uh it's a tough one it's not it's not a tough

00:02:04.580 one it's not a sport it's not a tough one i'm again i'm not there's a lot of things that i like

00:02:10.060 that i would not consider a sport so i'm not even trying to be demeaning when i say that

00:02:14.840 but it's not a sport but where do you land i i lean on we have a problem with our english language

00:02:24.640 that's the problem i mean it's you're competing for a win to me that makes it a sport

00:02:32.020 but just competition so what about chess would that be considered a sport i think i would

00:02:38.380 consider it a sport the difference i think the bigger difference that we struggle with is

00:02:43.220 um are you an athlete just because you do a sport i think that's a good question

00:02:48.960 yeah that's a good question we have some some pretty hefty size guys um in the radio control

00:02:55.780 racing world uh and uh you know we don't yeah your heart rate gets up a little bit but it's

00:03:01.980 not the same thing sure of course yeah and cornhole what about cornhole you would call

00:03:06.860 corn no darts is another one like could you say it's physical in nature sure i wouldn't call it

00:03:13.680 a sport though so this is what it says here okay so i just i pulled we're gonna get a lot of hate

00:03:18.900 and a lot of agreement it's gonna be interesting but i pulled this up and claude um i just wrote

00:03:24.420 what is the definition of a sport and this is what it said there's no single agreed definition

00:03:30.340 which is the problem right just like you said uh that's the first thing worth correcting the

00:03:36.100 question assumes one exists, one definition. Dictionary sports federations and the IOC,

00:03:44.220 I'm not familiar with that acronym, all use different criteria, which is why arguments

00:03:48.400 over whether chess, poker, esports count never resolve. Says the most commonly cited definition

00:03:57.460 from the International Sports Federation requires an activity to have the following. Number one,

00:04:02.880 an element of competition you said that number two no reliance on luck is the deciding factor

00:04:09.740 that's silly because there's always an element of uncontrollable events yeah uh number number

00:04:18.440 oh this is interesting no not harmful to any living creature so by that definition hunting

00:04:23.720 is not a sport which boxing's not a sport care oh yeah great point yeah interesting yeah number

00:04:32.140 Number four, not reliant on equipment provided by a single supplier to keep it fair, accessible, and not predominantly a game, quote unquote, predominantly a game or purely sedentary in the sense of no physical exertion, though this criterion is the most contested.

00:04:51.860 of course because being on a uh behind a remote control for an rc car you could say my thumbs

00:05:00.600 hurt but there's no like real physical exertion the same way that throwing darts at a board

00:05:06.280 although you are using some mechanics of physiology probably doesn't require that's

00:05:12.500 why guys can do it drunk because it doesn't require a whole lot of you know physical the

00:05:17.100 counterpoint is that the brain is a muscle and it's working real hard at these things

00:05:21.580 we just can't see it working what if our brain was in our bicep you trying to convince me that

00:05:27.520 rc racing is a sport that's your brain working really hard to convince me right now yes well

00:05:33.800 if the international committees can't figure it out we're probably not going to solve it on this call

00:05:38.240 guys if you have some thoughts on what makes a sport a sport please let us know because i don't

00:05:46.820 think this argument will ever end there's a lot of things that i really enjoy that are competitive

00:05:50.860 and i'm just trying to go through this no luck is a deciding factor yeah i'm trying to go through

00:05:57.200 this list that i would just not consider a sport but you know whatever do your thing enjoy it and

00:06:04.160 who cares what people call it if you like it get after it all right brother well um with all that

00:06:09.700 said we just pissed everybody off that is listening uh in one way or the other and now that everybody's

00:06:14.780 all riled up let's get to some questions and try to calm everybody down a little bit all right well

00:06:19.460 we got at least 10 people that have to listen because we're going to answer their questions

00:06:23.040 today um first one is going to come from tobias kendrick my father-in-law tobias tobias i was

00:06:33.440 come on now i got the whole last one everyone right yeah i'm gonna i agree with tobias sport

00:06:40.520 yeah keep going my father-in-law paid off our mortgage as a gift three years ago without asking

00:06:49.060 and every family dinner since it comes up in some sideways comment i never agreed to this

00:06:55.940 arrangement but i also never said no loud enough how does a man undo a financial dependency he let

00:07:03.180 happen well you did agree to it by giving him the financial information required for him to pay off

00:07:09.620 the mortgage so let's not be silly on that one you definitely agreed to it now did you agree to

00:07:16.240 the covert contract no probably not you didn't know it was going to be brought up at every family

00:07:21.320 outing and it was going to be held over your head but you did agree for him to pay off your mortgage

00:07:25.860 so let's be real about that yeah which i would too by the way but you know i think i saw this one i

00:07:31.380 think what i would do at this point i mean you're a grown man he's a grown man is i would very gently

00:07:36.200 pull him aside and say, Hey, look, dad, I think this is a father-in-law, but I don't know if you

00:07:41.260 use dad or his name, whatever, but Hey, look, dad or bill or whatever. Um, I just want to let you

00:07:47.480 know, I really appreciate you helping us out with a mortgage. I know you're trying to take care of

00:07:52.280 your daughter and I know that we've had a relationship and we're really grateful for

00:07:56.540 what you did. But what I have a hard time with is that it feels to me like it's just being dangled

00:08:03.940 over my head. And I don't really appreciate that when you make comments like, and then you actually

00:08:12.100 give him specific comments. I don't appreciate that. So if it was truly a gift, it would mean

00:08:19.100 a lot to me and Stephanie or, you know, your daughter, if you would refrain from making

00:08:25.780 snide comments about paying off our mortgage, or I'll go ahead and refinance the house

00:08:32.600 and pay your money back but that's where i'd like this to go how do you feel about that

00:08:38.940 yeah that's what i would do i like that but i think for me that would be step two

00:08:45.500 um okay has tobias thanked him

00:08:51.200 maybe he's throwing this out there because tobias hasn't actually been as grateful as

00:08:59.300 i assume a couple hundred thousand dollars of payoff on a house deserves that's you know more

00:09:04.280 than just a handshake maybe at the family dinner stand up and toast him first you know thank you

00:09:10.200 very much for giving us this gift and and and if you do all that and then the snide comments continue

00:09:17.140 yeah then i would go in you know like that alan because you know what's so cool about that like

00:09:23.760 i actually really like i'm glad you said that because i jumped to step number two i agree with

00:09:28.040 you what i like about that is it diffuses all of the power to not only are you thanking him which

00:09:33.900 is great because you want to show gratitude but it disarms him because now if he comes to

00:09:39.720 thanksgiving dinner in the next what is it two months now and he's like well i paid off their

00:09:45.220 house it's like yeah dad we we know like he toasted you last month we all like we're well

00:09:50.720 aware of it but that's actually kind of that's good from two ways it's good because it's good

00:09:56.420 to be grateful and it's good because it just takes all the power away that's solid alan it's

00:10:01.920 actually really solid yeah yeah and then look if if my method doesn't work and then ryan's doesn't 0.96

00:10:09.180 work just punch him in the mouth i mean that's the easiest thing to do and just end the thing

00:10:14.560 like just put it put an end to it once and for all no but i but i do agree i think yeah i think 0.99

00:10:20.580 here's a step one mine step two step three is resort to physical violence fair enough good

00:10:27.140 awesome no i like that i like just thank him publicly not just personally but publicly it's

00:10:34.440 like do a toast at thanksgiving and say hey guys we're so grateful that everybody's here at our

00:10:38.880 house this this year we have this beautiful home and part of it is in large part to the gracious

00:10:46.180 uh support of dad and you know helping us secure the home and i'm really grateful i know she's

00:10:54.700 really grateful and so we're glad to have everybody here and honor the fact that we have this home

00:10:58.720 that's paid off and we get to enjoy it without stress and we're so grateful thank you i love

00:11:04.760 that that's awesome yeah yeah there's no comeback to that no no

00:11:11.400 all right so wes alderman you can't mispronounce wes i like that

00:11:19.620 quick hit what's a habit you had at 25 that you're embarrassed a man's man ever did

00:11:28.100 it's like a really covert way to say how big of a screw up am i at 25 years old

00:11:36.760 well i drank a lot when i was 25 uh no not 25 20 for sure 25 i got sober i was sober by then um

00:11:46.600 yeah i had to think on this one a while i mean all the usual vices like i don't

00:11:53.320 i i kind of don't understand the context of the question because we all have bad habits and we

00:11:58.880 all know what they are right so and i still have them you know whether it's impatience intolerance

00:12:04.080 black and white thinking, laziness, slothfulness, gluttony. I mean, we all know what they are and

00:12:11.120 we don't ever totally escape those things. And then there's vices, right? Whether it's pornography

00:12:15.620 or alcohol abuse, drug abuse, womanizing, gambling. I mean, it's all this, it's all the

00:12:25.240 same things, but yeah, for me, I, you know, I really put away drinking for about 20 years until

00:12:29.800 I got wrapped up wrapped back up in it again and that became a problem that that to me isn't some

00:12:36.380 there's two things that come to mind one for me personally and then one I know a lot of men deal

00:12:42.180 with so substance abuse whether it's drugs or alcohol is a big thing a big thing a lot of guys

00:12:47.880 deal with and I would say that is not masculine behavior although let me let me back up just to

00:12:55.400 used the verbiage I've used in the past. It's not manly behavior. A lot of men, men are more prone

00:13:01.840 to alcohol abuse, for example, than our female counterparts. So we would generally associate

00:13:06.320 that with a masculine behavior. But it's not manly to sedate yourself from reality. And I would argue

00:13:13.160 the same thing is true about pornography. It's not manly to watch another man have sex with 0.97

00:13:20.720 a woman, whether it's in person or through pixels. That's being a cuck. So that's not 1.00

00:13:30.140 manly behavior. Is it masculine? Again, we have a greater propensity for pornography usage,

00:13:40.260 sexual violence even. So you could argue that our masculine biology makes us more prone to abuse 0.55

00:13:48.180 in that way but manly no it's not manly to watch another dude have sex with a woman

00:13:54.140 you should be doing that with the woman that you're committed to and honoring and exclusive

00:13:59.740 with that's right that brings me into my issues i had a mullet there's one because i also had a

00:14:07.540 i had a bald spot at the same time oh you had a skullet you didn't have a mullet you had a skullet

00:14:13.120 yes yes uh here's a hard one this is the first time i'm ever publicly admitting it

00:14:19.460 i was a fanalow what is that i don't even know that fanalow what is that a barry manilow fan

00:14:26.040 oh that predates me a little alan so i'm sorry that's a problem uh and the only other thing i

00:14:34.480 can at least you weren't a swifty or anything so or a cowboys fan so you're good there neither

00:14:39.560 neither um i i i don't know it's embarrassing i really loved driving the ambulance or fire truck

00:14:48.660 code three like what's code three lights and sirens balls to the walls get the hell out of

00:14:55.300 the way without an emergency no no with an emergency okay you've got such a charge out of

00:15:01.220 that you know that goes back to the nascar thing i get to go fast no i don't but it's not no that's

00:15:09.020 not that's not embarrassing like no that's all i got i mean i know i know soldiers who and firefighters

00:15:16.680 and police officers who and i know you you're a you're a former firefighter i almost said police

00:15:23.020 officer firefighter i know um no i i don't think it's it's embarrassing to to chase adrenaline to

00:15:32.760 chase the dopamine that's what we do you just got to do it healthily but you being in an ambulance

00:15:38.340 turning the sirens on and rushing to go serve somebody is and getting it. This is kind of an

00:15:44.340 interesting thing that people think. I've noticed this trend where, and I'll tell you part of the

00:15:50.520 reason this trend exists is because if you look at studies, upwards of 70% of individuals are

00:15:56.400 dissatisfied with their job. And because 70% of people are dissatisfied, it's probably even higher

00:16:02.520 now dissatisfied with their job they believe that if they see somebody who actually enjoys their job

00:16:11.120 that they must be doing something immoral i get that all the time people will say to me

00:16:18.720 oh i have to pay you to be involved in your programs like yeah this is a business it's a

00:16:25.400 movement but it's a business too like oh well i just thought you were doing this thing out of the

00:16:30.240 goodness of your heart and then i usually come back and say well what do you do for work like

00:16:35.140 well i'm an engineer or i'm an architect it's like well cool like so you like beautiful buildings

00:16:41.620 you like structurally sound and safe buildings you want to keep people safe and earthquakes

00:16:45.660 you want to present beauty to your community and to your state well yeah yeah i love all that stuff

00:16:51.000 it's like well i can't believe you wouldn't just do that out of the goodness of your heart they're

00:16:57.260 like, well, I have to put food on the table, right? Dummy. Why is it that we have, and I know why I'm 0.97

00:17:04.180 asking this rhetorically, separated the idea between enjoying what you do and making a great

00:17:10.640 living doing it. I don't think those two ideas are at odds with each other. And I don't think

00:17:15.940 they're mutually exclusive. I think you can have both, but it's up to you to develop it.

00:17:20.440 You should love what you're doing. You do it eight hours a day, if not more.

00:17:24.120 if you loved it you'd probably do it more i mean here i am just like you alan on seven o'clock for

00:17:30.920 you on sunday night it's five o'clock i can hear my kids upstairs spent plenty of time with them

00:17:35.860 this weekend so i felt safe and comfortable carving out an hour out of my day to do this but

00:17:40.140 here i am on a sunday night my boss didn't tell me i had to clock in and check in and

00:17:44.920 punch my time card or or or call in for pto to do this no i just what i like to do

00:17:51.060 Well, let's run with that and help one more person.

00:17:59.120 We're going to help Preston Lachance.

00:18:02.800 I found out my 16-year-old son has been posting in some pretty extreme online spaces.

00:18:09.340 Not illegal, but angry, isolating stuff about women and society.

00:18:15.060 I don't want to overreact and push him further underground, but I don't want to say anything either.

00:18:21.060 what's the actual first move here?

00:18:26.300 Well, the first move is acknowledgement.

00:18:28.780 I mean, this is the reality of any situation you're trying to improve

00:18:33.100 is you have to acknowledge that there's a problem.

00:18:35.880 Whether we're talking about AA or some underlying issues

00:18:41.800 in a relationship with your wife or, in this case, with your son,

00:18:46.220 the first step is to acknowledge that there's a problem here.

00:18:49.500 and i have not dealt with this but i think this is becoming increasingly common i have three boys

00:18:55.700 and i have a girl as well uh my two oldest boys are 18 and 15 years old so right around the age

00:19:02.220 of of this guy's son um we live in a predominantly conservative area which is a good thing it's a

00:19:09.580 it's a beautiful blessing because uh raising them in a liberal area would be horrific even if

00:19:16.660 me and everybody close to them are trying to do the right thing it's going to be hard to combat

00:19:21.920 but I think the first thing you need to do is just sit down with your son and say hey bud like I

00:19:29.700 I know you're posting these threads I know you're making comments here I know and by the way I also

00:19:35.740 know you're jaded and I think if I were in your shoes I might feel a lot of the same way that you

00:19:42.460 are I might feel attacked I might feel like women are the enemy I might feel like the government is

00:19:49.680 out to get us I might feel like fill in the blank with whatever you think is going on because that

00:19:55.340 makes you relatable and whatever your son is dealing with right now I would argue that there's

00:20:00.440 a tinge of truth to it that's what I found about most deceit and most lies is they're not blatantly

00:20:07.180 false because if they were, everybody would just see right through it. It's the wolf in sheep's

00:20:12.740 clothing idea. The wolf doesn't come in as the wolf. The wolf comes in in sheep's clothing

00:20:18.460 because if it just came in as a wolf, everything would scatter and there wouldn't, you know,

00:20:23.760 it'd be fine. But it comes in deceptively, manipulation, inch by inch, just give a little.

00:20:32.000 And so there's got to be some element of truth to every lie. Otherwise, we would all see right

00:20:36.980 through it. And I think it's okay to say, Hey, bud, if I was being raised in 2026 at 16 years

00:20:45.460 old, I would actually feel very much the same way that you do right now. Why don't you tell me

00:20:50.360 what's going on? How are you feeling about women? How are you feeling about the government? How are 0.98

00:20:55.880 you feeling about taxes? How are you feeling about your job prospects? How are you feeling about

00:21:00.200 raising a family? And I'm not talking about putting the light on him and interrogating him.

00:21:04.620 i'm saying like genuinely ask him how are you feeling about these things

00:21:08.400 and i've found that the more that i can come in with a line of curiosity and inquisitiveness

00:21:15.500 and less interrogation the more receptive the people i'm trying to influence and that's what

00:21:22.100 we're trying to do the more receptive the people i'm trying to influence are but if you just come

00:21:28.040 in guns a blazing don't do this don't do that you're wrong oh you're gonna go down this bad

00:21:32.380 path. Oh, as a 16 year old kid, hell as a 45 year old man, I would tune out of that. So come out

00:21:40.860 at it with a little grace, put yourself in his shoes, ask some good questions, not to get an

00:21:47.720 answer so you can then start talking, but like actually try to figure out his perspective and

00:21:52.960 ask yourself internally, does the claim he's making have some validity? And I would argue that

00:22:00.300 it probably does if you're really willing to look at it correctly

00:22:04.640 yeah i like that ryan um my son's 27 and around that age of 16 i went through a similar thing

00:22:14.420 um and what you said is spot on just have the conversation with them something we ought to

00:22:21.140 remember at at 16 we're not telling them what to do anymore we're an advisor at this at that age

00:22:28.320 They've outgrown most of the tell them what to do.

00:22:33.400 So when I was going through this with my son, one thing it also dawned on me is 16 years of being with me led him to this place where he had these thoughts.

00:22:47.520 My son was degrading to women and was developing more extreme political ideologies, and they're not the way I think or feel.

00:22:59.980 I don't say, hey, you should hate on women or anything, but the life that I had been giving him led him to this.

00:23:08.680 So one thing I found very helpful was to get him in front of other mentors that could help him.

00:23:16.760 His karate instructor was a key, key player in his life to help him.

00:23:23.740 He did mixed martial arts and really helped him reframe and refocus on himself

00:23:29.800 and not all the problems of the outside world.

00:23:34.520 These kinds of activities and sports for teenagers is huge

00:23:39.400 just because it helps you focus on the things that you should be focused on at this age.

00:23:45.860 and stop you from, you know, you leave a 16-year-old in an empty room

00:23:51.880 to just sit there and think, this is what COVID killed a generation

00:23:56.520 because they had too much time to just think.

00:23:59.420 And at that age, you start doubting yourself and you start doubting the world

00:24:04.520 because you should be questioning the world at that age.

00:24:07.660 You're, you know, in the animal kingdom,

00:24:09.440 you're getting ready to take over the world at that age.

00:24:12.160 So they need influence, and it's not all going to come from the dad at this point.

00:24:19.680 It needs to come from the outsiders, the coaches, the teachers, even the friends.

00:24:25.860 They're going to get a lot of influence from the friends,

00:24:28.020 so do what you can to get them in front of the right group of friends, and then hope.

00:24:36.200 Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:24:39.240 I mean, hope, like at first I was like, eh, hope.

00:24:41.520 That's really all you can do.

00:24:43.060 They don't come with instruction manuals.

00:24:45.440 Yeah.

00:24:45.860 I mean, that's really all you can do once they're out on their own.

00:24:48.500 I mean, you can influence and try to pour into them the way you're doing.

00:24:51.320 I remember my oldest son.

00:24:53.220 He's got this incredible strength and fitness coach who he doesn't work with anymore.

00:24:59.340 He did when we were in Maine.

00:25:00.540 His name was Sean Moore.

00:25:02.280 And I think the world is Sean.

00:25:03.980 But frankly, when Sean came into my son's life as his football coach and then eventually his strength and conditioning coach, I got so sick and tired of hearing about Coach Moore this, Coach Moore that, Coach Moore, Coach Moore, Coach Moore.

00:25:20.320 I'm like, who is this guy?

00:25:21.620 Like, what does he know?

00:25:22.920 and in a stroke of divine intervention or just clarity I realized oh wait coach Moore is actually

00:25:33.080 a good dude he actually cares about these young men he actually has a set of moral principles

00:25:39.620 he's actually trying to do the right thing and teach these young boys how to lift and get

00:25:45.380 physically and mentally strong and when I realized that I thought to myself well he's not the enemy

00:25:51.400 coach Moore is an ally of mine he's helping raise my son he's pouring into my son in a meaningful

00:25:58.840 and significant way and here I am when Brecken talks about coach Moore rolling my eyes undermining

00:26:05.680 the relationship that he has with somebody who I feel like is a good moral influence on my son

00:26:12.660 yeah why why would I do that because it's ego I mean that's what it is it's like well I can tell

00:26:20.640 all the things coach more can but the reality is even if i could which is not true but even if i

00:26:25.880 could sometimes we need to hear things from different people and sometimes you as a father

00:26:32.320 are so close to your kids that they don't see you as superman like my kids know i got impatient with

00:26:42.040 my kids today and all of my my three boys they all saw it they all saw it they all watched it

00:26:47.860 they all saw it and I just pulled myself off the mantle of superhero in their eyes not so much

00:26:56.240 anymore because they're older but they don't see that from other people and so they see the good

00:27:02.740 the bad and the ugly with me but sometimes they don't see with other people which is good

00:27:06.480 so coach more would say things I'm like dude I've been telling you that for three years and I was

00:27:10.420 yeah but but he said it like this and I'm like okay whatever and I was so threatened initially

00:27:15.980 until i realized get over yourself it's not about you it's about the betterment of your son

00:27:20.320 and that's why i love the advice that you gave get them around good men and let good men encourage

00:27:26.240 foster support good men pouring into these boys we need it now more than ever yeah excellent do it

00:27:35.200 i wish we could get feedback from these guys they could always leave it in the youtube channel

00:27:40.380 right yeah uh let's see we got ellis marchetti

00:27:46.320 short one at what point does toughing it out through chronic pain

00:27:52.220 just become stubbornness dressed up as strength

00:27:55.120 we both have chronic pain yeah i mean some of it's just residual from bad decisions and some

00:28:04.840 of us just getting old, but, uh, I think the difference is purpose, right? So if I get off

00:28:12.300 this podcast with you, Alan, and I walk over to this wall right here and I just bang my head

00:28:20.140 repeatedly into the wall for the next half hour when we get done, I think all of us would agree

00:28:26.760 that would be painful we'd all experience pain but there's no purpose to that like there's there's

00:28:36.460 literally no positive benefit to that for me but if that wall is a wall that i want to tear down

00:28:46.000 because i'm building out my podcast studio and i take a sledgehammer and methodically and

00:28:53.100 meticulously go to work on taking that sledgehammer to the wall to tear it down so i can build out my

00:28:59.120 podcast studio it's safe to say that i'll experience some soreness some muscle soreness and

00:29:04.880 be out of breath and you know maybe that i hit a stud the wrong way and the sledgehammer bounces

00:29:10.960 back and it hurts my elbow or my fingers or my shoulder i think we would all agree that there's

00:29:16.240 purpose to the suffering and that's might be a silly example but that's the difference

00:29:21.980 if you are proverbially banging your head against the wall without any direction or purpose

00:29:28.420 pain doesn't mean anything we we the problem with self-help in modern times is that we just

00:29:35.540 have learned to associate whether or not it's valid or not a certain learn to associate pain

00:29:43.060 with progress i can do a lot of things that are painful that aren't progressing me in the right

00:29:49.000 direction. And so I think what you really need to do, and this is something that we did in the

00:29:53.820 Iron Council, Alan, what, a week, week and a half ago, is we spent an entire week on not goals,

00:30:00.860 not objectives, not the things that we want to accomplish, but vision, purpose, mission,

00:30:08.540 direction. What is it that you want out of your life? And only then, once you've started to

00:30:14.540 identify and figure out what that is. Only then do we reverse engineer the process because that

00:30:19.740 gives meaning to our suffering. And if there's no meaning to your suffering, probably don't do it.

00:30:28.500 I went and ran on Saturday. I went and ran eight miles to support a friend who was running an

00:30:33.340 eight mile trail run race that I couldn't happen to attend. But I did eight miles here locally.

00:30:38.180 It was painful. I got to mile six and my hips were hurting and I was stiff legged and it was

00:30:43.840 uncomfortable and i'm sore today that's painful but it was for a purpose it made me healthier

00:30:51.300 but it was also in support and solidarity with a friend who i care about and i want that person

00:30:56.240 to win so i did it to support them i can suffer through the pain if there's meaning behind it

00:31:02.420 but if there isn't meaning then you're just banging your head against the wall literally

00:31:06.380 or figuratively yeah i read this question entirely differently than you did okay i was thinking i i

00:31:15.320 got stuck on the term chronic pain so i'm thinking you know the guy that's got back pain that's going

00:31:21.740 on for 20 years or you know i have wrist pain from bad surgeries and all wait read it again

00:31:27.980 read it again hold on now i'm like no your answer is really helpful for people too and

00:31:33.040 it may be it so at what point does toughing it out through chronic pain just become stubbornness

00:31:40.300 dressed up as strength oh so chronic pain to me means long term banging your head on a wall would

00:31:47.440 be acute pain so brain damage is good it was useful no i mean that's a good point i've got

00:31:56.880 some ideas on what you just said but but go i'd like to hear what you have to say yeah so

00:32:01.260 well i don't do pain well i do not like being in pain and thanks to the world of modern medicine

00:32:08.060 we don't always have to be in pain so for me i will do everything i can not to be in chronic pain

00:32:15.940 short of drugs that are going to affect my performance uh you know you can't live your

00:32:21.480 life on oxycontin and things like that um so look it's not you know you don't have to be

00:32:28.380 manly and tough out pain that you could otherwise go see a doctor and get cortisone shots or laser

00:32:34.400 surgery or something to correct um but like for my wrist i've exhausted all current known

00:32:41.700 practices of medicine for it and it still hurts every single day and it will probably forever

00:32:49.160 that point i just have to man up tough it out stop complaining to my wife about it she don't

00:32:56.120 want to hear it anymore um i think that's the to me that's the drawing line is when you don't

00:33:03.360 when you've exhausted all your options ryan you have this look on your face like no every man

00:33:07.780 should be in a little bit of pain no i don't i don't want to be in pain i mean it's the it's

00:33:14.480 the condition of of man to be in pain yes like my my back hurts a little right now but also like i

00:33:21.220 have the luxury of not ever really having to do something catastrophic so it's really easy for me

00:33:25.940 to say before i had the injury i i ruptured my pectoral tendon before i had that injury

00:33:31.700 i used to quite frankly look down on and mock people who are dealing with chronic persisting

00:33:37.560 problems and then i had that problem like oh yeah that's a real thing i've been blessed knock on

00:33:44.200 wood i've been blessed and fortunate not to have to deal with any of that um i think it is the

00:33:49.520 condition of men just to be in some degree of pain. And I also believe that

00:33:55.480 there is a subjective scale of pain, or excuse me, an objective scale of pain,

00:34:02.640 but I think pain is also objective based on our biological makeup. There's genetics actually

00:34:09.760 that define how tolerant someone is to pain, believe it or not. And then there's also the

00:34:15.680 mental component of it it's like some people are just more capable mentally of dealing with

00:34:21.460 greater hardship and it might be that they went through greater hardship than than those who

00:34:26.100 haven't but some people are just more capable of it but i would argue this here's what i'd argue

00:34:31.480 alan you brought up a great point your wrist i'm not gonna i don't know what it's like to have a

00:34:36.420 wrist that hurts chronically like you're talking about so who am i to say well just toughen it out

00:34:40.640 i don't know but what i have figured out is that pain is is not generally broad in scope it's

00:34:49.800 usually isolated or acute so you you brought it up you said my wrist hurts well you didn't say

00:34:55.640 your bicep hurt you said your wrist hurts right so figure it the f out like this is what i get

00:35:05.640 frustrated with not that, not that you're in pain, but that we use acute pain to excuse poor

00:35:12.900 behavior. Like when I had this, this problem with my rupture, I went, I still went to jujitsu

00:35:19.560 three nights a week, religiously. Now, did I train jujitsu? No, that would have been stupid.

00:35:26.900 But I was in the corner doing lunges, doing box step ups, eventually moving to box jumps, 0.96

00:35:35.640 I was doing curls with this arm, not my left arm. And I was watching and observing and asking

00:35:42.700 questions and participating to the degree that I could. And then when I came back after this

00:35:49.180 had recovered, I remember I was rolling maybe that first or second week of being back. And I took it

00:35:54.540 at about 50%. And I told the guys, my sparring partners I was training with, I'm like, hey,

00:35:59.600 I'm hurt here. If you get me in a compromising position, I'm going to tap early. I'm like, cool,

00:36:03.680 no problem and they didn't even attack this side because that's what a good sparring partner would

00:36:07.600 do but i remember training with somebody a good friend of mine ryan daggett and he said to me he's

00:36:15.760 like hey man like you're just getting back like you're really good for getting back that's what

00:36:20.920 he said you're really good for just getting back into it yeah because i never stopped right now i

00:36:27.400 pivoted right i was actually in better shape when i came back to the mats than when i left

00:36:32.560 because i was still eating right training watching observing learning and that's where i get really

00:36:40.180 frustrated when guys are like oh i have a shoulder injury i'm like yeah you didn't say

00:36:45.400 a quad injury you said a shoulder injury well i can't go into the gym like bro you could do

00:36:51.860 leg presses and that has nothing to do with your shoulder but these are the excuses that we use

00:36:58.200 to get us out of actually staying the course

00:37:01.360 in spite of, yeah, some pain

00:37:04.680 that you're going to have to deal with

00:37:05.780 to varying degrees.

00:37:08.320 All right, let's take that pain to the next level

00:37:11.500 with the next question.

00:37:12.640 It segues really well in.

00:37:14.420 From Cormac Whitfield.

00:37:17.380 I tore my ACL playing rec league basketball last year

00:37:21.460 and haven't been able to do the physical stuff

00:37:24.080 that made me feel like myself since.

00:37:26.200 my wife says i've gotten short-tempered with the kids and i think she's right here's the question

00:37:33.100 how do a man's identity and his body stay separate when one of them fails

00:37:39.460 what again you tore your acl your body didn't fail what are you talking about

00:37:47.500 he's lost his whole identity in basketball okay so play play basketball in a wheelchair i don't

00:37:56.140 care play something else find a new identity man yeah like it's i'm not trying to be impatient

00:38:05.880 about this or or insensitive like i get it okay so it's you weren't born a basketball player

00:38:14.440 like you didn't come out of the womb dunking the basketball you learned that along the way

00:38:18.120 maybe you're tall maybe you have a natural athletic ability maybe your brothers all played

00:38:22.760 basketball and they beat up on you and so you just got good at basketball uh maybe that's the

00:38:27.340 only sport that was available in your high school that you could make the team for i don't know

00:38:30.620 there's a ton of reasons why you might get into basketball but you weren't born a basketball

00:38:35.380 player you learned it and developed it at some point and then ultimately that became your identity

00:38:41.080 figure it out what's gonna be your new identity find something else yeah and by the way a torn

00:38:50.100 non-ACL does not keep you from playing basketball in the short term sure in the long term no you

00:38:56.140 can continue to play basketball or you can do something completely different you can become

00:38:59.540 a great swimmer low impact you know still using all your muscles and your talents and your

00:39:05.340 abilities and your athleticism but low impact there's a ton of things you could do but cycling

00:39:09.620 would be another thing there's a lot you can do yeah i i struggle with tying your identity so deep

00:39:17.620 into your hobby or sport going back to the beginning and your identity is who you are

00:39:25.000 it's not what you're doing like ryan said you could pick any other sport or hobby to play

00:39:31.480 and enjoy it just as much and you know and move on it's who you are as a competitor

00:39:39.240 at basketball that you want to keep you want that competitive spirit to go on

00:39:44.640 doesn't have to be in basketball.

00:39:47.440 I agree with Ryan, ACL, give it time.

00:39:49.780 You can play again.

00:39:51.440 But I think you're holding a little too dearly,

00:39:54.000 I am a basketball player.

00:39:55.860 Well, it sounds to me like you're also a husband

00:39:57.600 and you're also a parent.

00:39:59.960 I assume you have a career.

00:40:02.240 So these are just things that you do right now.

00:40:05.260 And one of these things needs to pivot a little bit.

00:40:07.960 That's all.

00:40:09.220 But keep the core of who you are

00:40:10.480 and pivot into something else

00:40:11.920 or into the recovery effort.

00:40:14.640 Well, I think that last thing you said is a great point. A lot of guys that I talk with,

00:40:20.400 they're going through divorce and I often tell them, hey, it's time for you to make yourself

00:40:24.640 the project. And they ask, what do you mean by that? I mean, fix yourself. Figure out all the

00:40:31.960 flaws, all the weaknesses, all the vulnerabilities. Start to be a little bit more self-aware. Start to

00:40:38.180 figure out where you can shore things up. Take responsibility and make yourself the project.

00:40:42.620 You know, one thing you said, Alan, though, is you said, well, you're still a husband and you're still a father and you have a job.

00:40:48.820 But again, that's falling into the same trap.

00:40:51.680 Yes.

00:40:52.620 Because if I go to work tomorrow on Monday, we're recording this on a Sunday evening.

00:40:57.700 If I go in on Monday and my boss hands me a pink slip, then I'm going to deal with the same situation as the basketball situation.

00:41:05.660 Or my wife comes to me and says, I want a divorce.

00:41:08.820 Well, now all of a sudden I'm no longer a husband.

00:41:11.220 i'm a single man and so does that break me good if you let it so i would say rather than because

00:41:18.920 you brought up a good point you said it's who you are but that's a that's a phrase we use but a lot

00:41:24.280 of people don't understand it who you are is not what you do the best way to describe yourself

00:41:30.360 for example if i had to say to you alan who are you tell me about yourself it's like uh that movie

00:41:37.560 anger management, which Jack Nicholson and Adam Sandler. And in the first meeting, I think

00:41:45.640 the therapist, Jack Nicholson says, well, tell us who you are. And he says, well, I'm a father.

00:41:53.500 And he's like, oh no, no, no. I don't want to know how many kids you have. I want to know

00:41:58.380 who you are. And he's like, well, I'm a hard worker and I work at this company and I'm

00:42:04.320 have this position he's like oh no i don't want to know what you do i want to know who you are

00:42:10.360 and adam sandler's like i don't know what you want me to say he gets mad yeah if you were dropped

00:42:16.040 on a deserted island just you by yourself now who are you that's what you got to ponder and that's

00:42:24.820 the thing is okay so let's take that example who am i i'm resilient i'm talking about your

00:42:32.020 island scenario i'm resilient i'm able to adapt i'm creative

00:42:39.820 um quick i'm intelligent like i can think through problems right or in in our modern world like i'm

00:42:50.060 caring i deeply care about my people i i'm service oriented uh i'm honorable i'm a man who

00:43:01.260 tells the truth. I'm a man who can recognize things that are what they are, and I feel like

00:43:11.120 I'm courageous. I don't have to pull punches. I can speak plainly about what I believe without

00:43:16.840 fear of what other people might think about it. Those are all things that can exist regardless

00:43:22.460 of any existential circumstance. And once you start to get to those types of things that define

00:43:29.680 you then it doesn't matter if you're playing basketball or lacrosse or cycling or swimming

00:43:34.780 or boxing or none of those and you're a chess player or a painter or a photographer or an

00:43:41.700 accountant or a cfo and a cpa you can do whatever and still meet the criteria of who you actually

00:43:49.280 are that's why the book start with why by by scenic is so beautiful it's such a great book

00:43:54.780 because he gets to that core yeah and for cormac as soon as you can embrace that and really feel

00:44:00.880 that that's who you are that's when that short-temperedness with the kids and all go away

00:44:05.360 you have to believe that yourself i'm glad you brought i forgot about that element but those

00:44:11.820 things will be addressed when you take care of the root of the problem good call uh all right

00:44:18.540 We're having some anger issues here with Judah Petrakis.

00:44:23.680 But it's not actually his anger.

00:44:25.420 My youngest son has my ex-wife's temperament exactly.

00:44:29.360 And I catch myself being colder to him than my other two kids

00:44:33.760 because it reminds me of the marriage that fell apart.

00:44:37.400 I hate that I do this.

00:44:38.980 How does a man stop punishing a kid for something that isn't his fault?

00:44:43.620 hmm what is the you said judah right yes what's the common denominator in the equation here

00:44:55.900 i said judah judah it's you now two isn't necessarily conclusive

00:45:05.280 but something's happening here right something's going on and I'd really try to consider and we

00:45:15.240 can give you some other advice that I think might be useful I hope would be useful but I might

00:45:18.720 consider turning that mirror around and putting it on yourself and saying okay what was it about

00:45:23.340 me that agitated my wife and I'm not excusing women's behavior by the way some people say when 1.00

00:45:28.980 I say things like this well women are blah blah I can't control what women do you can't control 1.00

00:45:33.660 what she does. So she might just have a bad attitude. What's worth examining is if you are 1.00

00:45:42.320 doing something that creates a bad attitude in other people. And I'd also inventory and say,

00:45:47.040 who else in your life has a bad attitude? And if you say, well, my boss and my friends and these

00:45:53.620 people and those people, I'm like, you're the only common denominator in this. I don't know

00:45:59.940 what the relationship with your ex is like, but if it is true, and I believe it is, that your son

00:46:06.120 has a very similar demeanor to your ex, which is very, very likely impossible.

00:46:13.680 I don't know what the relationship is, but I've actually had this conversation with my ex

00:46:19.040 where I've said, hey, I don't understand this child of ours. And I'm just saying that broadly

00:46:25.300 because I don't want to be specific, but I don't understand this child of ours. I don't get it.

00:46:31.400 Please help me understand. And she's actually, to her credit, been very gracious about that and

00:46:37.260 said, well, Ryan, you don't understand because he's like me or he does this or you don't get

00:46:44.620 it because of this or that. And it's very easy for me to get like defensive. But if I'm being

00:46:48.680 honest, I'm like, oh yeah, you're right. Thank you for telling me. And I was so grateful after

00:46:54.740 I got off my initial ego trip for her to say, that's the problem. And it caused me to really

00:47:00.260 reflect and think about how I might approach this child differently than I may approach any one of

00:47:06.600 my other children. And it's been an incredible blessing, not only in my life, but the relationship

00:47:12.360 between my child and myself is that I can now have conversations with a little bit more

00:47:19.040 understanding that this person this human being is different than they than me they don't they

00:47:25.600 don't think like me they don't speak like me they don't process like me and they're not broken

00:47:31.520 because of it you're falling into that trap that is of this person's broken that your child is not

00:47:38.900 broken they're just different than you and what they bring to the table might be a beautiful thing

00:47:45.340 if you could help cultivate and inspire it

00:47:47.700 outside of what you naturally gravitate towards.

00:47:52.720 Yeah, that's really good.

00:47:56.080 I also was wondering here if Judah is over this divorce,

00:48:01.540 if he's moved on, if he's finished the failure,

00:48:04.400 because you're spinning your ex-wife's temperament

00:48:10.220 into your kid, 0.61

00:48:11.320 and I don't think it's the temperament of your ex-wife 0.99

00:48:14.120 that's the problem.

00:48:15.340 It's the trigger that your son acts like your ex-wife and that triggers all this negativity from the divorce that you're still harboring potentially.

00:48:27.460 I don't know if this divorce is two weeks ago or 10 years ago, but some interpersonal reflection of am I really over the divorce?

00:48:40.080 uh and and look you usually when you want to get over something you want forgiveness back and

00:48:46.620 forth you and your ex are probably not gonna throw i'm sorry as it didn't work out and most don't

00:48:52.660 um but you can forgive yourself for your shortcomings in the marriage and then you can

00:48:59.100 start looking just forward facing just moving on from the divorce and this is the child i have

00:49:06.700 and this is how my child is

00:49:08.580 and don't even think about your ex

00:49:10.740 in relation to when you're with your child

00:49:13.660 and they're throwing a tantrum

00:49:15.300 your ex shouldn't even come up

00:49:16.680 it's you and them

00:49:18.960 and moving forward

00:49:20.720 to solve whatever is causing them to be upset

00:49:23.900 so I think some deep inner reflection

00:49:26.920 is needed there

00:49:28.780 in addition to what I'm saying

00:49:30.540 I don't disagree with you

00:49:33.180 I do agree with that

00:49:35.040 but i i don't i don't think it's exclusively true i i definitely agree that there's triggers right

00:49:43.060 i definitely agree that the way that one of your children acts might because i've had this

00:49:49.440 might remind you of your ex like i believe that is totally viable that's completely

00:49:55.440 potentially that you have this trigger and where i think i like what you said is that

00:50:02.100 great it's good now if you're self-reflective and you want to be a better man like i think you do

00:50:09.640 because you're tapping into what we're doing here now instead of looking at it like oh this person's

00:50:16.000 a problem you can begin to look at it and say oh this is another chance

00:50:22.080 this this is an opportunity and look i believe that god will continue to give you the same enemy

00:50:30.880 until you learn to defeat the enemy.

00:50:34.020 And I'm not saying your children are your enemy.

00:50:35.760 I'm saying the way you're showing up might be the enemy.

00:50:39.400 And God will continue to present you with that challenge

00:50:43.420 until you prove you're capable of dealing with that challenge.

00:50:47.580 And that challenge might be a personality.

00:50:49.420 That personality might really, really bother you

00:50:53.680 for some even legitimate reasons.

00:50:56.700 like how many times has a person um you run into somebody and you meet somebody and their name is

00:51:03.440 steve and you're like i hate steve i don't like that guy well is it that you don't like him or

00:51:10.240 that the guy who used to pick on you in high school's name was steve and so it's not him

00:51:14.600 it's the name that you don't like and you associate it with him so we do that too it's

00:51:19.420 wild that we do stuff like this. Right. And, and I think you might have a real opportunity to,

00:51:26.480 to, to sit with your child and say, you know what, man, second chances here. Like maybe there's an

00:51:34.240 opportunity for me to handle this differently in the way that I should have when I was first

00:51:39.900 presented with this challenge. And maybe that just makes you a better person and then gets you closer

00:51:44.400 to your child in the process good thought excellent thought yeah all right let's keep rolling um let's

00:51:54.280 go reginald tucson yes i'm the only man in my friend group who didn't go to college and it's

00:52:04.160 never said out loud but i feel it every time the conversation turns to careers how do you build

00:52:10.140 self-respect around a path that nobody around you validates go ahead throw it out there ryan

00:52:16.100 well the first thing you do to build respect is you stop trying to get respect from people

00:52:22.480 because what you're doing is you're being i'm going to clean this up you're you're being a

00:52:31.440 sniveling cry baby and that's cleaning cleaning the language up i don't need your validation

00:52:38.120 to know that i'm being a success and if i'm seeking your validation by default i'm actually 0.89

00:52:45.880 probably looking pretty pathetic in the eyes of the people that i'm seeking validation from

00:52:50.840 even if they don't describe it so what i would say

00:52:54.380 again i'm trying to clean the language up here a little bit i was going to say

00:53:00.020 stop whining about it okay stop whining you know what i would argue

00:53:07.620 that probably it's a bigger issue for you

00:53:10.640 than it is your friends.

00:53:12.720 I bet they really don't care all that much.

00:53:15.860 And I bet that you're projecting

00:53:18.080 your own sense of inadequacy onto them.

00:53:24.880 Like guys don't do this.

00:53:26.600 This is not a thing men do.

00:53:29.280 Men don't sit around and be like,

00:53:30.620 well, you know, you know, Steve,

00:53:33.220 actually, Alan didn't even get a degree. 0.96

00:53:36.440 guys don't do that because we don't fucking care you know who does that women do that 0.63

00:53:45.600 and in women it's not bad it's them relating it's them associating as long as they're not 0.95

00:53:53.060 being mean-spirited and throwing people under the bus it's them relating with each other

00:53:56.700 we don't care guys don't care you care and i'll be honest i think that's effeminate behavior

00:54:03.540 yeah you know how you know they don't care because you're in their friends group

00:54:08.100 if they care they wouldn't be friends with you good call so here's what i would ask

00:54:16.140 on this one reginald i think it was yes why does not having a degree make you feel inferior and

00:54:26.060 inadequate not i don't want to hear about your friends like i don't want to hear about what they

00:54:30.500 I want to know why you think not having that degree makes you feel inferior and inadequate.

00:54:37.780 I would put dollars to donuts that Reginald's parents really wanted him to get a degree, and he didn't.

00:54:44.880 This is a childhood issue.

00:54:46.820 He needs to move past.

00:54:49.940 So the question then becomes, I don't want to leave him hanging, and I know it kind of like harped on him a little bit here.

00:54:57.040 The question is, how do you do that?

00:54:59.220 Well, I would say use the battle plan.

00:55:04.240 And I know that that might be self-serving,

00:55:06.920 but the battle plan is very simply this.

00:55:08.580 Whether you use our system or something like it,

00:55:11.420 it's very simply this.

00:55:13.480 Start thinking about what you want.

00:55:15.420 Vision, we talked about that several minutes ago.

00:55:18.400 Then come up with some objectives for the next 90 days.

00:55:21.260 By the end of the year,

00:55:23.500 what are some things you wanna do with your money?

00:55:25.720 What are some things you wanna do with your fitness?

00:55:27.300 what are some things you want to do maybe there's a relationship you want to build up

00:55:30.920 and what are some things that you want to do to make yourself better to improve

00:55:34.560 focus on those four areas money self-development that could be learning a new skill it could be

00:55:41.320 getting closer with god whatever it might be your physical fitness and then a relationship that you

00:55:47.120 want to improve that's it focus on those four things pick one thing in each of those categories

00:55:50.780 and then from there say one thing that you'll do every single day and don't fail until the end of

00:55:59.340 the year give yourself to the end of the year don't fail if you say well you know what i think

00:56:03.480 i'd feel better about myself if i lost 20 pounds great cool what's one thing you can do just one

00:56:10.840 one thing you can do that will help you move to 20 pounds of weight loss and maybe you say

00:56:16.860 I'm just going to work out for 45 minutes every single day. Good. You now committed to doing that

00:56:22.600 for the next 90, what, it's probably actually closer to 120 days at this point, maybe a little

00:56:28.100 longer, but you're going to commit to doing that for the rest of the year. Maybe you say, well,

00:56:33.400 I just, I feel like if I really developed and honed my faith, I'd feel better about myself

00:56:40.400 because I would know that there's like a divine purpose for me on this planet. Good. I like that.

00:56:45.100 what are you going to do? I'm going to read the scriptures every day for 15 minutes per day.

00:56:50.760 Perfect. Once you figure out what that is, do not fail yourself. I don't care what your friends say.

00:56:58.040 I don't care what trips you're going on. I don't care what time you go to bed. I don't care about

00:57:02.440 what hardship you're dealing with or what issues or things you're struggling with. None of that

00:57:07.400 matters at this point. What matters is that you said you're going to work out for 45 minutes per

00:57:12.340 day. You said you're going to read the scriptures for 15 minutes per day. And maybe you have a few

00:57:17.500 other things you're doing. And you would just be relentless in those and prove to yourself,

00:57:21.780 not your buddies, prove to yourself that you can be a man of your word. And I promise you,

00:57:26.840 when you put your head on the pillow on December 31st, you will be almost unrecognizable from the

00:57:33.760 man that you are today. And that's my wish for you. Is that in 120 days, 130 days, whatever,

00:57:41.480 i don't know the math whatever it is that you are completely unrecognizable to you to yourself to man

00:57:48.820 the man in the mirror by the way all your friends will acknowledge it too but that doesn't matter

00:57:53.520 what matters is that you change yourself and you see it in yourself and it sounds far-fetched to

00:58:00.540 some people we see guys do this in the iron council all the time the majority that join we

00:58:05.600 see them it's pretty cool to see those transformations four things a day alan is that

00:58:11.600 that's pro that's part of the problem with our battle planning system is because if i just said

00:58:17.020 oh i do four things a day everybody's like it couldn't be that easy no it is yeah it is if you

00:58:24.000 do four things every day until the end of the year your life will be radically different yeah

00:58:31.560 It's not just about those four things.

00:58:33.320 It's about the kind of person that does what they say they're going to do

00:58:36.780 every single day, do those four things.

00:58:39.920 Transforms you.

00:58:41.420 Absolutely.

00:58:42.560 I want to get to this next question.

00:58:44.140 I think it's an important one a lot of men probably reflect on.

00:58:48.340 From Otis Ravencroft.

00:58:51.540 When did you realize your dad was just a man, not a hero?

00:58:56.560 And did that make things better or worse?

00:59:01.040 i don't i don't want to speak totally ill of my father i don't i don't like doing that

00:59:10.020 he's not here to defend himself he passed away years ago um my dad got me high for the first time

00:59:19.020 and that's when i knew

00:59:24.500 i've forgiven him for that i've i've come to terms with that um i mean i made my choices too

00:59:35.760 i guess but when you're in that situation with your father it's like you don't you're a kid like

00:59:40.300 how do you how do you not do that how do you resist that even if it's something you're worried

00:59:45.240 about or scared of but that's the reality of the situation and it with that said it actually made

00:59:53.060 bit better in the long run. Why? Because I realized that this is a human being capable of making bad

01:00:01.980 decisions. And that's it. I could start looking at people objectively. Well, we are, we are all

01:00:12.340 good in some ways. We're all horrible in some ways. And I started to learn how to compartmentalize

01:00:18.540 between what is good and redeeming in people

01:00:21.560 and what is not good and not redeeming in people.

01:00:24.340 And there are things that I would say are so intolerable

01:00:29.560 that there's no redemption, at least for a relationship.

01:00:32.440 That's not the way I felt with my dad, by the way.

01:00:35.440 But for the most part, I can look at somebody,

01:00:38.020 and this has given me so much peace, actually, tons of peace.

01:00:42.340 Because I can look, Alan, you're actually good at this too.

01:00:45.400 Like we've got, you and I have gone at it.

01:00:48.540 like we we've had our debates and arguments and been frustrated and not talked for days and weeks

01:00:53.540 like we've had that but you're good at this and that is realizing that's not the entirety of a

01:01:00.320 person that's a moment in time and there might be a way to reconcile and get through this and i and

01:01:07.020 i love people like that it's hard for me to to to understand why a person can't compartmentalize

01:01:14.220 that way where they can't say, Hey, you know what? That's not real flattering about Ryan.

01:01:18.860 And also I still really care about Ryan. And so he's like 90% good in my book and the other 10

01:01:24.780 is just who he is. And if I'm a friend, that's something I'm going to have to deal with.

01:01:30.300 And you can decide whether it's something you want to deal with or not, but I think it made

01:01:34.260 it really good for me because it afforded me the ability to learn about grace and compartmentalization.

01:01:39.900 and i think i'm a better man for it quite honestly yeah that's awesome um you know i said earlier on

01:01:48.600 this podcast that we didn't our kids didn't come with uh owner's manuals well we never really

01:01:55.080 relay that back to our parents we didn't come with owner's manuals either uh and i think that's

01:01:59.900 important to to recognize and maybe that's for some people when they start to recognize their dad

01:02:05.820 and mom as a person and not a hero.

01:02:09.360 My dad had extreme manic depressive.

01:02:13.180 It came on suddenly when I was eight years old.

01:02:17.360 He was never able to function in society

01:02:19.880 the remainder of his life after that.

01:02:22.960 He was my hero, hardcore hero.

01:02:27.540 Around about when I turned 18,

01:02:30.380 was getting into emergency medicine

01:02:32.300 and really started learning about this disability more

01:02:35.980 is when I started recognizing him as the man he was.

01:02:40.700 And I want to say, still my hero to this day.

01:02:45.980 He was a man.

01:02:47.240 He had a lot of faults that he could never get past,

01:02:50.240 controllable or uncontrollable.

01:02:54.220 But that doesn't, just because they're a man,

01:02:57.780 all heroes are people, right?

01:03:00.480 You know, the hero that saves your life, whatever, your football hero, they're people.

01:03:09.620 So they're not one or the other.

01:03:12.600 And your parents hopefully should be heroes, and you just also recognize that they're people at some point.

01:03:22.560 For me, it made the relationship better.

01:03:24.360 I can be more empathetic to my dad as to why he was doing so many screwy things and couldn't hold a job and all the other issues that he had.

01:03:34.060 So it made it a lot easier in my particular situation.

01:03:39.120 But I would say for all of you out there, make sure you recognize that they can be both.

01:03:44.160 I think that's really important.

01:03:46.400 Yeah.

01:03:47.180 I was thinking about this, and I appreciate you sharing that, Alan.

01:03:49.900 I know it's, you know, these types of conversations are sensitive, but there's, there's a really good song. It's by Lee Bryce and it's called Hard to Love, I think is, and I pulled it up here as you were talking and it's, it's, no, I'm not going to sing. I'm just going to read a couple lyrics. I'm not going to sing it though, but it's more, it's more based around a romantic love, but I think it's still kind of interesting. You guys should listen to it.

01:04:14.840 It says, I am insensitive.

01:04:16.440 I have a tendency to pay more attention to the things that I need.

01:04:21.060 Sometimes I drink too much.

01:04:22.720 Sometimes I test your trust.

01:04:24.860 Sometimes I don't know why you stay with me.

01:04:27.320 You guys can go through the rest of that song,

01:04:29.180 but it's actually a really good song about this idea that even though we try to do our best,

01:04:36.280 we're not perfect. 0.97

01:04:38.460 and we are not always like I don't know how else to say it like we're we're just kind of assholes

01:04:47.020 sometimes and I think if you if you look at these lyrics and you really think about the way that it

01:04:53.280 applies to you but also the way that it applies to other people like yeah your dad might be hard

01:04:59.580 to love or your mom might be hard to love or here's another one and here's another line from

01:05:04.360 the lyrics i'm a short fuse i'm a wrecking ball i mean name somebody that doesn't describe that

01:05:09.920 you know close in your life and you know what yeah maybe they are and also maybe they're worthy

01:05:15.140 of love and maybe you are too so maybe at some point i'll sing that for you guys not today though

01:05:22.200 guys make sure you send emails to ryan at order of man.com requesting him to cut his first album

01:05:29.360 Why would you just blast my email like that?

01:05:36.620 All right, what else?

01:05:38.400 All right.

01:05:39.820 I can't even see straight now.

01:05:42.140 Silas Broderick asks, this was actually a tough one.

01:05:46.160 My wife wants a fourth kid.

01:05:48.500 I'm done financially, emotionally, physically.

01:05:52.800 We are at a genuine impasse,

01:05:55.000 and I don't know if compromise is even possible on this one.

01:05:58.540 What does leadership look like when the answer might be no and staying married anyway?

01:06:07.380 Well, yeah, staying married anyway is good because having three kids is infinitely harder divorce than it is together.

01:06:15.420 So I just want to put that out there.

01:06:17.060 So I'm glad that you've said, well, I want to stay together.

01:06:22.460 I don't know.

01:06:23.380 You know, I didn't run into this.

01:06:25.400 I have four kids.

01:06:26.520 and when we contemplated having our fourth we had a very similar conversation with my ex

01:06:32.340 she said i think we have one more i feel like we do she said that i remember i feel like we do i

01:06:37.940 had this dream she had a dream about it i i was holding this little baby boy and i had a dream

01:06:42.120 with it and i and i just feel like we're supposed to i'm like really because i don't feel any of

01:06:46.740 that like i don't feel a thing about that and she's like well no i feel it i said okay like

01:06:55.100 all right like i'm willing to entertain it i wasn't shut down the same way i think this guy

01:06:59.900 is necessarily and that's okay like you can you can everybody's different that's fine

01:07:04.020 but i would if i were you and hear me out on this

01:07:09.640 it's it's probably more important to her maybe i'm wrong but it might be more important to her

01:07:18.000 that she has another one than it is to you then that you don't and i feel like that's how it was

01:07:23.220 with the relationship with my ex.

01:07:25.460 I feel like it was more important to her to have a fourth

01:07:29.000 than it was for me not to.

01:07:32.260 And that's not to discount the way you're feeling about things.

01:07:36.240 You said financially, emotionally, physically.

01:07:41.260 What if, and hear me out on this,

01:07:44.940 what if, because I love bringing children into the world

01:07:47.680 and I think we have a moral responsibility

01:07:50.040 and obligation to bring children.

01:07:51.420 We've been commanded to bring children in the world and raise them in righteousness.

01:07:55.900 So with that being the root of my belief, what if you figured out and talked with her

01:08:04.620 about what it would look like financially to bring another child in the world?

01:08:11.100 What would it look like with your physical schedule and your physical level of fitness?

01:08:16.240 Like, I don't know, but are you 50 pounds overweight?

01:08:20.140 that might be contributing to part of your physical lethargy what would your retirement

01:08:26.220 look retirement look like you're gonna push it back another couple years i'm just saying i would

01:08:32.800 if if i were you because it sound again because i just think a woman i really believe this i think

01:08:38.880 a woman's desire to have children if she's in that in that mode is oftentimes more powerful

01:08:45.080 than a man's desire not to. But I'm not saying overlook your own feelings and your own thoughts

01:08:51.760 about it. I'm saying explore what it would look like if money was set. Explore what it would look

01:08:58.960 like if physically you had more energy, more capacity, more time. Explore what it would look

01:09:05.120 like if mentally you were in a healthier place and more connected and grounded and feeling better

01:09:11.160 about your family and who you were because if you were better off financially if you were better

01:09:19.240 physically if you were better mentally would this be as big of an issue i don't know i'm not going

01:09:25.540 to even project that but i would argue that there's some things that i think i'm really trying

01:09:33.120 to think about this i think you owe to your wife to explore before you put the kibosh on it

01:09:41.160 i didn't have to go through this either so this is a tough one for me too but

01:09:47.120 clearly she has a very strong maternal instinct uh and and it's not met yet with three kids

01:09:56.080 i don't want this to come off sounding dismissive of having a kid and obviously i know the value of

01:10:03.540 having a kid and what that's like but could she meet her maternal instinct in another way

01:10:09.580 helping out at an orphanage homeless shelter um even pets can sometimes do that have a conversation

01:10:19.820 with her and this is a hard conversation because again you don't want to compare getting a puppy

01:10:26.020 to getting a child but is there something else an alternative that would serve her and i like the

01:10:35.140 idea of you know even working at a daycare to me there would be nothing that would make me sick

01:10:40.920 a kid quicker than working at a daycare that's that'll kick it right out of you um that might

01:10:48.220 be another route you go down you you you know her you've had multiple kids with her um so i think

01:10:55.440 definitely explore could you bring in another child what would it look like in your life and

01:11:01.740 in her life you know she may just be thinking about the maternal instinct of wanting another

01:11:06.400 child she's in the same financial straits as you are so maybe she hasn't thought about we'll be

01:11:12.660 eating baked beans forever and you know and what is her mental capacity for another child and

01:11:20.140 yeah go down that alan i totally disagree with you on that really i totally disagree like

01:11:30.380 i've not met a woman who wants a baby who says that itch will be scratched by

01:11:38.140 working at a daycare or helping my sister babysit their little toddler like i've have you met a 1.00

01:11:47.900 woman who's like been okay with that i just i don't know but i met women that work at daycares 1.00

01:11:53.040 that don't want kids well but that's different but those women probably also don't want their

01:11:57.540 own kids either though right maybe that's all i had this is a tough one yeah i don't i mean look

01:12:07.500 i think the conversation is worth having but here's what i would be cautious of is

01:12:12.360 when you say to her hey babe like i know you want another kid i want you to fathom for a second

01:12:19.560 that we're going to be eating beans and rice for the next 10 years you know what she's going to say

01:12:24.040 i don't care i'll do that because she's not thinking about it logically

01:12:31.340 she's thinking about it emotionally in her feelings like her womb her body is telling

01:12:37.140 her to have another baby logic be damned so i think you run i'm not saying don't have the

01:12:43.240 conversations i'll take the big l it's okay no i don't even think take the l i think have the 0.95

01:12:48.820 conversations like i think just say like hey babe look like i know you're feeling like this i know

01:12:55.080 that this is important for you and i want you to know i'm willing to entertain and explore what

01:13:01.240 this might look like and as much as you have feelings that we should have another child i

01:13:06.660 have valid concerns that we shouldn't and maybe there is some mutual ground here but there's some

01:13:11.760 things that i would want to see for me to be comfortable with us moving forward with an

01:13:16.880 expanded family. And here's what these things are. And can we do these things? And how do we make

01:13:24.540 these things work? Because look, in any negotiation, Alan, if I come to you with a negotiation about

01:13:30.100 business, let's say, and I'm like, hey, Alan, here's what I need to have met before we do

01:13:34.100 business together. You can say one of two things. You can say, no, I don't want to meet those. It's

01:13:39.840 like, cool, then we won't do business. Or you can say, yeah, I can meet those. I said, great,

01:13:45.580 we'll do business. Or I guess the third alternative is, hey, I can meet these two or three things,

01:13:49.960 but I'm not going to meet those three things. And then I have a decision to make.

01:13:53.880 And I'm not whittling it down to a business transaction, but I'm saying this is a negotiation.

01:14:00.740 And it's like, hey, babe, I'm willing to explore the idea with you of this.

01:14:07.440 I mean, clearly you are, because you wouldn't ask the question if you weren't exploring it.

01:14:11.320 you would already just said no and not even ask the question so figure out what needs to happen

01:14:16.980 in order for you to feel comfortable about that because if i were in your shoes and my 1.00

01:14:22.920 wife wanted another baby i would try to create the conditions where i could bring another baby

01:14:30.840 into the world because i think bringing kids into the world is amazing and i would want to

01:14:34.900 please my wife and i'd want her to be a mother i think that's a beautiful thing

01:14:38.620 all right i'm gonna still go with the big l for me

01:14:44.480 the big l as in what do it or don't do it what's the big no no big l for me i didn't my my answer

01:14:51.300 not as strong not oh oh i got it yeah no you're right that was an l for sure i'm just kidding

01:14:57.160 well we got one more one more for tonight i'll see if i can redeem yourself redeem yourself

01:15:03.260 uh nash overby you're giving me the chance here quick hit what's one provide instinct

01:15:10.040 that actually hurt your marriage instead of helping it

01:15:13.040 one provide instinct

01:15:18.820 i think this is what most guys deal with in the realm of provision we think that providing

01:15:26.100 financially is enough that's what every guy deals with and you know it because you've said

01:15:32.960 well i don't know why you're so angry like i know i wasn't there for you tonight or i worked late or

01:15:38.900 i had to work this weekend or i wasn't at little timmy's baseball game but i was working i was

01:15:44.400 trying to put food on the table i was trying to get clothes for the kids for back to school i was

01:15:49.200 trying to pay for their extra the only reason timmy can play in little league is because i'm

01:15:52.880 out there busting my tail making money so that he can play little league baseball so we've all said

01:16:00.640 it we've all said things like that we've all done things like that and i'm not saying you're even

01:16:05.500 wrong i'm saying congratulations you checked a box of provision you didn't check all the boxes

01:16:13.940 and i think if more of us understood that we might divvy up those resources a little differently in

01:16:21.040 the future yeah so my first marriage i was a textbook mr nice guy for i checked every box on

01:16:31.260 that so providing for me came to a it was a big surprise when i was going through a divorce

01:16:38.680 and my ex-wife said i was controlling and i'm like controlling i was just making decisions to

01:16:45.700 run the family i never never saw it as controlling totally blindsided me um and that's a it's a

01:16:54.820 balance and it requires communication um and self uh knowing the self well enough uh so yeah that

01:17:03.360 that's my provide it's not over providing you can't over provide but you you have to allow

01:17:11.100 your wife to have her own voice in it and have the two-way conversations don't just provide

01:17:18.660 i think that's a good point you know i think about this maybe in a silly context

01:17:24.740 because we often talk about with with men how you know men should be making decisions on behalf of

01:17:32.240 their family but also taking their wife's perspective into consideration and a small

01:17:38.400 example of that might be that you want to take your wife out this weekend, maybe Friday night.

01:17:44.800 If I were in your shoes, what I would refrain from doing is saying, hey, babe, I'd like to go

01:17:49.060 out this weekend. When do you think we should go? What should we do? What would you like to do? I

01:17:52.900 would refrain from that, right? What I would do is I would say, hey, babe, I'd like to go out this

01:17:59.060 weekend. How does Friday night sound? If that works, I've got us reservations for the new

01:18:05.820 steakhouse in town. Now, if she's allergic to steak, probably don't take her to the steakhouse, 0.87

01:18:11.940 right? Or sushi is more like it. You know, it's like, hey, I got reservations for the new seafood 0.84

01:18:17.300 place in town, but she's allergic to shellfish. Okay, asshole, probably don't get reservations 1.00

01:18:22.720 at the seafood place. Maybe go to the steak place instead, right? You can take her into consideration. 1.00

01:18:28.840 So come up with a plan as an assertive man. Hey, babe, how's Friday night? If that works for you,

01:18:34.140 I've got us reservations. I've got a sitter coming over. She'll be here at 630. We have dinner at 730. And then that evening, I got us a room at the new hotel that just opened up. It's really nice. I got us a room for the evening. And grandma's coming over tonight to take care of the kids until tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock.

01:18:56.560 that's assertive leadership as a man and then if she says well you know what i'm just i'm just

01:19:04.560 worried about you know the kids and i don't know if if my mom is like really in the in the right

01:19:11.440 headspace to take care of the kids it's like hey babe no problem how about this how about instead

01:19:18.100 we stay here or you know we stay closer or we do something like you figure it out right you do

01:19:26.300 something different that accommodates her concerns but still puts you in the position of leadership

01:19:33.680 and I think the more men who do that the better off they're going to be so I'm not saying you

01:19:38.780 need to be a tyrant by any means but I am saying that you can make decisions but still take into

01:19:44.560 consideration and adapt when necessary I just think that's it I wish I would have done that

01:19:50.440 more I wish I would have been more assertive and I also wish I would have taken into consideration

01:19:55.540 the way that my ex-wife might've felt about things

01:19:57.900 in those moments.

01:20:00.100 Yeah, that's what I do today.

01:20:01.940 It's worked very well now.

01:20:05.040 It's a fine line between leading well

01:20:08.560 and letting other people have a say.

01:20:11.560 So here's what I wouldn't do in that scenario

01:20:13.500 to give you the opposite.

01:20:14.980 It's like, hey, babe, I got us reservations

01:20:18.600 at the new steakhouse.

01:20:20.320 This great new hotel opened up across town.

01:20:24.260 I got us the best room with the best view grandma's coming over to watch the kids we got to be back by

01:20:30.980 10 o'clock tomorrow morning and then she says well I'm worried because grandma fill in the blank 0.99

01:20:35.680 and then you're like oh no no no no it's stupid don't worry about that you don't need to worry 0.99

01:20:40.480 about that you always worry about these things and I don't know why you do this and let's just 0.99

01:20:45.060 go have a good night together yeah you're leading but you're tiptoeing and dancing on the line of

01:20:52.020 tyranny and dictatorship than cooperation with the person you love the most in the world and that

01:20:57.720 whole evening she's just going to be worried about his grandma taking care of the kid well

01:21:01.020 she's not going to be having the good time that you want her to totally i mean you could even be

01:21:06.420 calm you can say how about this grandma will be there tonight i still have the reservation for

01:21:11.840 the room why don't we have a late evening and we'll get in around midnight we'll get home

01:21:16.420 midnight 1 a.m you and i'll have a good night together and we'll get home late and you'll wake

01:21:23.460 up with the kids and i'll get up and i'll cook them breakfast in the morning cool like we can

01:21:27.500 all do that that's a good compromise one that puts you in the position of authority and also

01:21:32.540 lets you know lets her know that you're willing to compromise and take her consider her her

01:21:37.660 feelings into consideration you know all that in mind ryan i wonder if we can add presiding over

01:21:43.840 your family to our list of sports no what's the competition

01:21:49.360 not presiding what failing is the competition i don't know yeah but who are you but you're not

01:21:56.760 competing against somebody directly right so isn't that part of the definition of a sport

01:22:00.860 i guess i appreciate where the head's at no sorry no okay i gotta figure out i'm gonna come up with

01:22:10.140 the universal definition of what a sport is i'm gonna i'm gonna figure it out i'm gonna crack this

01:22:15.200 code do it do it friday field note and then i'll come up with a list of approved sports and

01:22:21.960 everything else is not and you guys can just deal with it as long as radio control car racing is on

01:22:27.060 it it won't be i can guarantee you that so wait if rc car racing is a sport what about battle

01:22:36.100 bots because that's something i actually kind of like i love it it's competitive it requires

01:22:41.060 technical skill i would not call it a sport i would totally call it a sport what why what's the

01:22:49.220 what's the logic following a structured set of rules you're competing against somebody else

01:22:54.020 for total destruction not even a touchdown we're talking about kick the other guy until he's in

01:23:02.300 flames it's a competition okay so but is war a sport oh hey we're gonna get deep is war a sport

01:23:12.520 i mean athleticism i would say an element of athleticism for sure but is it a sport

01:23:18.540 i mean just messing around with the definition other than the fact that that definition you

01:23:26.240 read earlier said nobody should get hurt it actually would fit the definition ryan

01:23:31.940 that's tough it would fit the definition except for the one one of the things that actually define

01:23:39.300 it according to the federal sports agency or whatever it was but we call boxing and mma and

01:23:46.300 yeah those are sports that's why i don't agree with that definition totally that's why we got

01:23:50.660 to come up with a new one but i also wouldn't call hunting a sport i wouldn't call hiking a sport even

01:23:56.840 no because you're not competing

01:23:59.920 correct unless it's a competitive hike in which case i would say that's sporting

01:24:07.960 what about when we're competing against ourselves though we could go on all night with this

01:24:13.280 no that doesn't count it's got to be outside external competition for sure to be a sport

01:24:19.400 at least from where i sit okay we're gonna have to continue this one and there has to be some

01:24:26.620 sort of threshold for physical exertion like golf's borderline bowling is borderline rc car racing

01:24:35.640 with all due respect is not borderline so target although i love it no that's not that's not a

01:24:44.220 like if i'm if i'm shooting a gun at a target i wouldn't consider like a decathlon okay sure

01:24:51.320 that's where i was gonna go right that's sporting is it half sport half not sport

01:24:56.880 no no because they they wrapped it all they bought they they they cheated the system they

01:25:03.340 balled it all up in one thing and so now it's just it's like pregnant you either are or you're not

01:25:07.700 there's no like halfway i am doesn't exist okay but there's got to be some in my mind there's

01:25:17.400 got to be some sort of threshold for physical exertion i just think we it's an english language

01:25:23.100 problem we lack enough words for the types of games that we play well guys if you have any

01:25:30.640 insight so that we can come up with the official order of man definition of sport please let us

01:25:37.040 know because we will adopt that immediately and publish it far and wide so everybody now has the 0.96

01:25:42.300 new standard and ryan will sing the national anthem at the first new sport you bet your ass i will 0.89

01:25:48.540 all right brother bring us home bring i thought that was bringing it home there

01:25:54.900 well we got to ask guys to do something here i'll tell them guys so this is being released on

01:26:00.800 wednesday september 16th tonight this evening at 8 p.m eastern we have the war room we're going to

01:26:08.520 be talking about the victim machine and we're going to be talking about different ways to lead

01:26:13.920 there was some leadership questions today uh you can either be a persecutor a rescuer or a victim

01:26:23.960 and my good friend and co-host of this podcast actually when you're not filling in alan

01:26:29.340 kip sorenson is going to be there to talk about the distinction and how to move us better into

01:26:33.880 effective leadership with our kids, with our wife, with our community, our business partners,

01:26:39.900 employees, et cetera. So if you want to be a better leader, which basically means your life

01:26:44.360 will be better and so will other people's, go to orderofman.com slash war room tonight at 8 p.m.

01:26:51.220 Eastern. Beautiful. Look forward to seeing you there. All right, Alan, I think we cleaned up

01:26:57.020 the audio on this one. I appreciate you. Thanks for the great questions, guys. We'll be back on

01:27:02.080 Friday for our Friday Field Notes. Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you

01:27:06.480 are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take

01:27:11.580 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be, we invite you to join the order

01:27:16.200 at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - September 16, 2026

Gifts with Strings Attached, Embarrassing Habits, & Protecting Your Children from the Digital Realm ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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