00:00:19.180I think he wants to go for a walk again.
00:00:21.220Um, so I don't know if you've all heard about what has happened.
00:00:29.180But basically, in 2024, there was a situation with this Jane Doe at Cornell University, who's an undergraduate, and she had a date, kind of, or a quasi-boyfriend, something like that, and they were going out, they were drinking, they walked a mile, actually, back to a fraternity house.
00:00:57.220forgetting the name of this fraternity she was a tri-delt delta delta delta may i help you help
00:01:03.780you help you as we know um i forgot the name of his fraternity but um she yeah someone's
00:01:12.420dealt his double triple d but um they walked a mile to the fraternity house
00:01:19.660they were sort of there was a proposition of a threesome of some kind and then there was ketamine
00:01:29.000use on top of alcohol now this woman jane doe when she first reported this described herself1.00
00:01:35.300as a five out of ten in terms of sobriety or drunkenness so she was pretty drunk but uh five0.86
00:01:42.300out of ten is not you know blackout drunk should be a ten it's not even wasted which might be a
00:01:48.880it was you know tipsy had a few and then the ketamine definitely changed things0.51
00:01:55.300and she engaged in a sort of threesome a Eiffel Tower like situation uh ketamine and then other
00:02:06.080people started watching she didn't like it and then they stopped and she reported this at some
00:02:15.760point because word of their exploits got around campus and i'm sure she was embarrassed and at
00:02:22.680that point she even reported that the men were incapacitated and not necessarily her so that
00:02:31.800at one point a one of the guys was od'ing on ketamine and was limp while this group sex act
00:02:43.500was going on and so on and uh so it was reported so two boys were expelled um some of the other
00:02:53.500ones who watched were demanded that were reprimanded told to write essays the fraternity
00:03:03.520was kicked off campus so there were real consequences to all of this but none of it
00:03:11.260seemed to be criminal and the way that she described it now again you could probably say oh
00:03:19.220they were threatening her or something so she she gave a false story to the police well
00:03:24.880there's no evidence of that nor does she really claim that and so what she claims basically is
00:03:33.780that she voluntarily got intoxicated by alcohol and ketamine and voluntarily engaged in group sex
00:03:44.980now was she in her right mind or best mind no but she was the one who put herself in that position
00:03:54.180to be honest now fast forward a few years and she's done a civil suit uh against cornell
00:04:04.520university against both both her sorority and the fraternity against every young man who was involved
00:04:14.720and against the uh bar that they got drunk at i guess i don't know she's claiming she was
00:04:23.980over served or served at all and uh it's just a complete mess now what i find fascinating is
00:04:31.580that they're these celebrities so florence pew of the marvel cinematic universe got in on the act
00:04:38.360and talked about these things and blah blah blah um the district attorney in ithaca new york has
00:04:46.780agreed to reopen the case now the case was not it was basically closed there was a report it was
00:04:53.780handled by the university they did not think that any criminal actions were involved and so there
00:04:59.840was just no criminal case this is being reopened uh this strikes me as some sort of duke lacrosse
00:05:09.580case now the duke lacrosse case that i experienced firsthand because i was actually attending duke
00:05:16.100university when that happened uh was uh bizarre collective hysteria about sex but also about race
00:05:29.400and it was fundamentally about race actually so it was white lacrosse players who hired uh two0.88
00:05:36.380strippers and they actually for what it's worth ask for white strippers but they got a black stripper
00:05:43.520and a blasian a black asian stripper uh and there was a lot of harsh words exchanged0.98
00:05:52.580but nothing happened and they went home lo and behold crystal gail mangum days later started0.98
00:06:00.840claiming rape gang rape and she told a story to mike nifong who was the district attorney running
00:06:07.280for re-election and he just jumped on it and tried to ride that train to the promised land
00:06:15.280of re-election and fame and the media. He was all over the place, giving interviews,
00:06:21.440coming up with stories of what happened. I can just remember being on campus at Duke
00:06:29.340at the time i was a graduate student and the police released evidence so the boys cooperated
00:06:38.320and gave their phones and when it was 2007 it was sort of pre-phone era they had cell phones so they
00:06:46.080gave their laptops to the uh police and the police started releasing information like there was an
00:06:53.220email exchange involving the novel American Psycho and one of the boys said oh yeah he said0.99
00:06:59.920something to the effect of oh yeah maybe we can skin them alive and skull fuck them or he said0.99
00:07:08.540just some totally outrageous Halloween-esque type statement and the police were releasing this to1.00
00:07:18.040suggest that these were a bunch of serial killers i don't know now young men say a lot of
00:07:26.300gross nonsense and the fact that they said that does not prove anything and the fact they were
00:07:34.160also clearly uh evoking a a novel that itself is salacious i mean it just anyway i can remember
00:07:43.160when that was released on campus and walking out and there was just this like palpable feeling
00:07:50.700everywhere of hysteria. Like, I can't believe this is happening. This is so, I mean, that was
00:07:58.000something. And I was sort of shaken, you know, shaken by it. I mean, it was like, this case is
00:08:05.140new. I was skeptical of it to begin with, but the case was new. And then you release this evidence
00:08:11.600that on its face seems to indicate that they're like serial killers or something i mean it was
00:08:18.680just totally shocking all of that unraveled her story unravels crystal gail mangum eventually
00:08:27.580tries to set it's crystal gail mangum eventually gave up her story and recanted her partner the
00:08:37.400the black and asian woman uh actually to her credit was very very early on offering a lot
00:08:45.920of doubt to the story and um the whole thing unwound and later on crystal gail mangum who0.96
00:08:54.300might be psychotic i don't know uh or psychopathic she eventually she tried to set her boyfriend on
00:09:01.380fire and uh is in prison right now uh very sad stuff but it was just an expression of hysteria
00:09:09.740anyway steven miller of trump administration fame was attending duke at the time i knew him
00:09:16.660quite well at the time and um he was leading the duke conservative union um i wrote an article for
00:09:24.480the american conservative magazine that sort of got me started in this funny way and that was
00:09:30.520shared definitely shared on campus it was a an exercise in bridge burning that to put it mildly
00:09:36.520because the the campus professors i remember they they formed this like the gang it was like the
00:09:42.240gang of 88 or the gang of 69 i forgot what it was but they were saying they were using language like
00:09:50.260regardless of the facts of this case there is a culture of racialized rape at duke university i
00:09:59.240it was very it was hysterical i think it was the gang of 88 i i mean i don't know if i even at the
00:10:07.420time even picked up on that curious coincidence but anyway um it doesn't that certainly doesn't
00:10:14.320matter but uh it was a wild time and uh a very wild time and it really was i mean it's been sort
00:10:22.520have forgotten now because we're 20 years on but that that captured the imagination of
00:10:31.000the american public even the world for at least a year and a half it was it was you know very much
00:10:38.900like the lindsey clancy case but i i think even more hysteric um really fascinating stuff this
00:10:48.800reminds me of that and it's at another elite university so there's just elements of class
00:10:54.240that are going on there town and gown um but yeah i mean look i've looked into this i posted on
00:11:02.880twitter um ashley banfield who was a i think she worked for cnn believe it or not um i well it's
00:11:11.740not like it's that unbelievable when i was growing up in dallas i believe she was our local broadcaster
00:11:18.020and she's like anyway gone on to other things that she was on cnn for a while i believe now
00:11:23.780she does youtube true crime stuff and she's uh you know it's all true crime is sort of a dubious
00:11:31.540you know market but uh she she shoots straight i mean she she's objective and she lays out the
00:11:40.720case i mean look this was bad behavior uh these kids were trying to reenact the first season of
00:11:51.020euphoria i i don't know what was going on but i also there was just simply no indication that
00:12:01.320she was forcibly drugged and raped and there is a lot of evidence that she unwisely but
00:12:10.200consensually engaged in drug use and then some sort of three-way that became a live action0.99
00:12:19.800porn and went bad and she regretted it and she felt stupid and used and embarrassed totally0.97
00:12:31.580understandable but now she's suing all these people and wants to make millions from the0.98
00:12:37.340university and so on and once a you know reopened criminal case where you could put these boys in0.99
00:12:43.820jail for being idiots basically and the fact that celebrities are jumping on this and i just it's0.98
00:12:53.220like can you not just pick a good case like why why is it that you pick these obviously bad ones0.99
00:13:00.440um i don't know i i could go on in terms of this whole thing of you know it's interesting that
00:13:09.860we're just so obsessed with consent and not the act itself so we are we find it just
00:13:19.160beyond horrible these boys should get the death penalty for the lack of consent but no one's
00:13:27.360really judging the three-way itself no one's saying you you know wow these kids probably0.64
00:13:35.080shouldn't have this much freedom at age 20 or wow they're really making bad decisions oh wow
00:13:42.460they're mimetically copying things that they've seen on hbo which i think was happening and i
00:13:52.600think it was probably a awkward regrettable three-way that went bad um i just at the same
00:14:05.340time the idea of destroying these boys these boys or young men's lives due to that and to basically
00:14:12.480treat this woman as a victim as opposed to a willing participant is wrong and again it's like
00:14:19.200you know and i was saying this with regard to the graham platner case where you had these
00:14:23.560you know sort of regrettable ambiguous situations of like oh this guy you know graham platner a bit
00:14:31.980of a chat he's sleeping with multiple girls am i really his his one am i really his girlfriend0.90
00:14:38.460and oh i don't want him to come over but oh now he's here i'll have sex with him and maybe i'll1.00
00:14:45.400sex with them next month as well just to see if there's anything there but oh i hate that guy0.99
00:14:53.480i mean it's like you you can't have it both ways i mean we want to be in this situation0.99
00:15:01.800where these women are not shamed at all they are not considered agents with willpower and they are1.00
00:15:11.880are not shamed for doing what they're doing. It's just the consent thing. It's just this obsession1.00
00:15:18.040with consent. You can withdraw consent at any time. You can apparently retroactively withdraw
00:15:25.580consent. And that's when it becomes rape. But there's no critical discussion of, well, do you
00:15:34.900think there's some problems with the fact that these young women, and they're not even that
00:15:40.240young, they're in their 30s, and they're just sort of acting like adolescents, not taking anything
00:15:46.440serious. Do you think that maybe there's a problem with that? And I'm not even arguing for like a
00:15:52.980trad society where you get married at 16 and have one partner for your entire life. I'm much more
00:15:59.280laid back with these things. But I also understand that there are just serious problems. You know,
00:16:05.400That drug-fueled three-way might have sounded kind of cool after three beers, but it becomes a bit awkward and unfortunate and regrettable really quickly.
00:16:21.540and why don't we criticize that as opposed to coming up with some consent-based way of legally
00:16:34.900destroying the men's lives whereas Jane Doe gets off scot-free I don't know this is all very
00:16:44.080this is sort of basic stuff I would imagine everyone feels this way about the case but those
00:16:48.740those are my opinions but this seems to be this just dramatic uh new hysteria lindsey clancy is
00:16:57.160old news so we're gone on to this poor girl no one can even remember graham platner here we are
00:17:03.580just some thoughts um apollo's aquarium uh yeah so when it comes to like i don't know i i really
00:17:14.920I really hate like the whole just the whole people's concept of consent nowadays it really
00:17:25.580and this is not like that crazy of a statement but it really is just totally like backwards it's
00:17:33.880all about you know the enthusiastic yes the you know it's they you know have to constantly ask
00:17:40.760about everything you can't make a move and it it's like just even in practice it doesn't even work
00:17:46.320like if you if as a man you've ever been in an intimate situation with a woman nothing will dry
00:17:52.440her up quicker than you asking to do something she's always she this is the problem no means no0.98
00:17:59.400i'm sorry it doesn't no no means yes yes means anal we all know this like0.99
00:18:06.140no that's that's that's a joke but um but yeah no they they don't like they really don't like0.97
00:18:13.660sometimes just to be the adult in the room here sometimes like no get away from me that does
00:18:19.700in fact mean no but at the same time let's always remember the situation where it's like oh my gosh
00:18:29.080no we can't be doing this yeah no it's there's there's the kind of like no i gotta get home0.98
00:18:38.520like yeah like that is so bad yes that is that is an ask that is a women don't like being0.84
00:18:45.900forthcoming with things they just there's that but it doesn't even necessarily mean yes what i1.00
00:18:50.780mean is that it's a little bit of a challenge you know it's it's like a are you are you up for this
00:18:59.040like can you convince me of this right it's a game and yeah and it's just and and can you and0.97
00:19:06.580like no it's not just like brutal sex like you don't just get to like stick it in me get off0.92
00:19:12.960and leave or whatever it's like no you've got to there's got to be some passion here there's some0.73
00:19:19.180it's a tango it's a dance and say you know you guys you like both parties know what they're doing
00:19:25.060and both parties know what the other one is doing you know at least and this is something that is
00:19:30.080really annoying and i i have heard women say it in regards to other encounters they've had with men
00:19:35.460where it's like you know i thought that uh you know i was you know you know we were just hanging
00:19:40.600out and you know he you know asked me to come back to his apartment and i thought we were just
00:19:45.280gonna you know hang out and watch a movie and then all of a sudden he makes blah blah blah0.71
00:19:49.400and then like it's like listen you are not stupid you like everyone knows that if a man like if if0.95
00:19:59.560a man is making an approach at a woman of any kind regardless of what his stated intentions are0.99
00:20:05.740it is because he is sexually attracted to that woman and wishes to engage in sex like nine times
00:20:12.220out of 10 in most in any social situation you know obviously businesses and so forth that's a
00:20:16.900little different but you know we we all know this and so i think that it really there is an0.87
00:20:23.560accountability issue and there you know i think this is sort of a to critique feminism a little
00:20:30.000bit um you know there's this you know call for men and women to have the equal opportunity to
00:20:38.620you know work to work and do what they want and have the freedom to do what they want and
00:20:44.080you know have autonomy but with that autonomy comes accountability and that's the part that1.00
00:20:50.480they don't like whereas back in the day when women were seen as property you know if a man
00:20:54.520were to deflower a woman that would be a slight against the father or the husband or you know
00:21:00.820yeah like that was you know they there was there was no the accountability was on the man when the
00:21:05.760woman was seen as an object seen as an object seen as property but once they have that you know
00:21:11.520independence once they have the autonomy to do what they want and make decisions that means you0.90
00:21:17.560have to accept your you know your faults in the in situations if you get yourself into a situation
00:21:24.160that you didn't want to be in you know obviously there are you know times when you know really
00:21:32.440they didn't have a choice but a lot of the times it's like not to be like what were you wearing
00:21:37.500why were you out at night by yourself but you like you put yourself people have autonomy i really hate
00:21:44.160people not or like they know what they're doing and we do this with with like young people like
00:21:51.000as as a man as a young man even when i was like in my early early teens i would do things that
00:21:57.860put myself into dangerous situations that my parents didn't know about and i knew that if i
00:22:03.340were to get myself into trouble i would need to get out of it and it was my fault but i knew what
00:22:08.100i was doing and you know because everybody's the other issue is that everybody most people's morality
00:22:15.720comes from the law it becomes it comes simply from i'm told this is illegal therefore i shouldn't do
00:22:22.840it because i don't want to be punished and that's where the whole age of consent thing comes in
00:22:27.320people are like like people that's that's the other thing that people love moralizing about
00:22:31.320besides monogamy is is the whole age of consent argument which is you know don't need to go
00:22:36.000deep into but you know you've got people attacking a 19 year old for having you know
00:22:43.040sexting or having a relationship with a 17 year old and it's like he's a pedophile it's like no0.99
00:22:48.300he's not a fucking pedophile yeah like like no but it's because their morality comes from this0.99
00:22:54.420you know a it comes from the you know oh you have to be 18 that's when you're an adult because the0.99
00:23:00.800law says so when in reality it's far everything's always more nuanced than that and so but people
00:23:08.300aren't nuanced they just they don't think about things they don't think about things critically
00:23:12.920and so there's there's a number of issues with the um with the state of you know i guess outrage
00:23:21.840culture and and I think people really what a lot of it comes down to is people needing to
00:23:27.800moralize people have this and to attack and to attack other people and because of like you've
00:23:35.860described you know because everything like you can't kink shame you can't you know moralize0.89
00:23:41.400about homosexuality or single motherhood or women being sluts or anything like that because that's
00:23:48.040that's not taboo that's that's perfectly fine we have to you know it resulted to things like
00:23:55.060the age of consent and consent itself is like the ultimate you know boundary yeah yeah and there's
00:24:03.780no criticism of the current arrangement and i'm not even saying we should throw the current
00:24:10.340arrangement out the window but it's like we have to be realistic about some unfortunate
00:24:17.120consequences to the way that we are in engaging in sexual relations now and we don't um let me
00:24:28.620go to nzio here and then i'll uh wrap it up maybe i'll someone in the chat asked for a red socks0.99
00:24:34.400yankees prediction i'll i'll go on that but nzio um yeah i just wanted to riff on uh how stupid an0.88
00:24:43.860idea of consent is and consent culture is as a college student myself um you know when you enter0.91
00:24:51.380college and i also remember many times throughout college they give you like these courses that you
00:24:57.280have to do specifically um i think specifically they were for men actually they were designed
00:25:03.200specifically for the male students about consent what consent culture entails um and there's a big
00:25:10.080seminar at least where i went um in the beginning of college where all the men and women go in this
00:25:15.340co-ed um event where they're all lectured given a powerpoint presentation by this female
00:25:22.220administrator about what it means to enthusiastically consent and this was like a change
00:25:28.500of of uh terms this was like a little bit of a change in the lexicon because when i grew up it
00:25:33.020was just you know consent was all that mattered you know she had to be say yes you know i want0.69
00:25:37.960have sex which is something she would never say in in reality like it's kind of silly but
00:25:44.040um this new term was enthusiastically consent which basically means that like
00:25:50.280she can't just be like okay let's do it you know oh all right it has to be like yes i want to i0.99
00:25:58.020want to have sex with you i want to suck your you know what and like i'm like that is just so1.00
00:26:04.260anathema to the female mind yes um like i can't imagine a woman like even like like thinking like1.00
00:26:12.120that or i mean maybe thinking like that but not saying that and you know what a man would say
00:26:18.240it's so funny it's ironically just so male yeah it's what a desperate man would say as well
00:26:24.660and the thing about it is though is that
00:26:27.900well this was criticized at the time by anti-feminists um who were saying like you know
00:26:35.960what does enthusiastically consent mean does that mean that the man has to like
00:26:40.760read inside the woman's head and like is she thinking enthusiastically like is that an
00:26:45.860enthusiastic expression you know doesn't this mean that the next morning she could just be like0.98
00:26:50.520well i'm not feeling enthusiastic about that sex so like i'm i'm gonna say that was rape
00:26:55.420and that was the critique at the time and that seems literally what this case is is like i woke
00:27:01.880up a month later after this gangbang and i don't i don't feel enthusiastic about it anymore so i'm
00:27:07.740gonna accuse all these guys even her statements a few days later basically implied that she
00:27:16.440consented maybe not enthusiastically but implied that she consented this is the problem with this0.99
00:27:22.460case so it's like years later you look back on some dumb ass thing you did in college and you0.96
00:27:29.740want to punish literally everyone even like tangentially of evolved involved you want to0.97
00:27:37.900punish your own sorority yeah and they want eternity the whole university the bar i mean0.98
00:27:45.480It's just like, this is so fucking nuts, I can't even.0.99