Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ A heartbreaking and infuriating interview with a victim of child sexual exploitation in the United Kingdom

00:00:00.000 Hello, my Rebels. A very special feature interview today with Samantha Smith.

00:00:04.300 She's a British conservative pundit. Very interesting thoughts on what's going on there.

00:00:08.740 But she herself, I suppose, is part of the news. A very difficult conversation with the victim of

00:00:15.220 child sexual exploitation in that country. I'll let her explain what happened to her and

00:00:21.520 her thoughts on how to make sure it never happens again, even though it is still happening again

00:00:27.380 every day. That's our show today. A very special interview with a survivor of Britain's rape

00:00:34.060 gangs. But let me invite you to get the video version of these podcasts, too. Just go to

00:00:39.500 rebelnewsplus.com and click subscribe. A heavy conversation, to be sure. Here's today's podcast.

00:00:57.380 Tonight, a heartbreaking and infuriating interview with a victim of child sexual exploitation in the

00:01:09.400 United Kingdom. It's September 13th, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.

00:01:13.660 You're fighting for freedom! Shame on you, you censorious bug!

00:01:19.960 Well, you know our motto here at Rebel News, it's telling the other side of the story. Sometimes

00:01:33.460 that means talking about a story that everybody's talking about, but just giving a different

00:01:38.900 perspective. But sometimes it means telling a story that everyone else is afraid to even

00:01:44.740 mention. Afraid for various reasons, because it's too difficult to talk about certain things. Or

00:01:51.740 you might be accused of being a bigot. You might be accused of being a racist. That's something that

00:01:58.600 happened in the United Kingdom over years. In fact, over decades, as a terrible phenomenon took root in

00:02:05.580 that country. A phenomenon of what can only be called rape gangs. Groups of men who would sexually

00:02:13.720 assault women, night after night after night, the same women, and actually to say women is inaccurate, 0.95

00:02:19.960 they're girls, children. It's child sexual exploitation on a mass scale. It's tough to talk about it because 0.99

00:02:30.600 in the main, the young girls are working class white girls. And as terrible as it sounds, the majority of 1.00

00:02:39.320 the perpetrators are Pakistani Muslim men in the UK. It's very difficult to even say that unless perhaps 1.00

00:02:46.280 you yourself are a Pakistani Muslim man in the UK, like Majid Nawaz. Listen to this clip from his radio

00:02:54.200 show a few years ago. For too long in this country, uh, we, media, the establishment, society, the

00:03:03.240 chattering classes, the liberal elite, whatever term you want to use, have ignored the issue of grooming

00:03:09.240 gangs. Of young, vulnerable teenage girls who have been victimized, drugged, and raped, and abused.

00:03:17.080 Whether it's the Rotherham case, or all the other cases that were replicated across the country,

00:03:21.000 uh, it is both the conclusion of the prosecutor, uh, in the Rotherham case, British Pakistani Muslim

00:03:27.000 Nazir Afzal, or indeed the official inquiry into why it took so long for these young, vulnerable,

00:03:33.320 underage girls, uh, to get justice. Uh, both of those concluded that fears of racism prevented us from

00:03:40.920 coming to the defense of vulnerable, underage girls. Fears of racism meaning, uh, that the state

00:03:47.000 was scared that it would be accused of being racist if it rightly arrested and prosecuted British

00:03:54.360 Pakistani largely, British Pakistani Muslim men, uh, in their abuse of underage white teenage girls. 0.84

00:04:04.360 And so, from fear of appearing racist, there was a silence across the country, as multiple cases

00:04:13.080 of grooming gangs emerged up and down the country, as evidenced now due to multiple, uh, uh, prosecutions,

00:04:20.120 successful prosecutions, but sadly and unfortunately too late. If we hadn't all been silent, if we had

00:04:27.320 all addressed this issue head on when it needed to be addressed, when it was time to address it,

00:04:32.840 then the void would not have emerged for the populist agitators to fill that gap and become popular,

00:04:41.800 actually, as a result of addressing what is a legitimate issue. They ended up hijacking what

00:04:47.720 should have been the concern of every right-minded citizen in this country. And unfortunately,

00:04:55.320 it takes a bit of courage to address something, uh, that people will hurl abuse at you for talking

00:05:01.080 about. I know on this show, on this, on my own show on the weekends, um, I've tried to book, uh, certain

00:05:06.840 MPs to come on and address the issue of grooming gangs, and on multiple times, they've had to back

00:05:12.120 away from fear of the backlash. We recall Sarah Champion, who in the Labour Party attempted to address

00:05:19.320 this and lost her position in the front bench as a result. There have been multiple cases now,

00:05:25.320 and it's beyond any level of doubt that there's a disproportionate number of British 0.73

00:05:29.800 Muslims involved in grooming gangs against underage white girls. And to say that is to report on the 0.64

00:05:36.920 facts. It's not to be racist. And if we're backing away from this conversation, then all we're doing

00:05:43.240 is leaving the ground far open in what is a legitimate issue that requires addressing. We're leaving the

00:05:49.960 ground for the populist to hijack that legitimate issue and make it their own for their own nefarious

00:05:56.280 purposes. And that's precisely what's been going on. And it's in that regard that what I'm saying here

00:06:03.880 is I just wish, I wish that those young girls had seen justice served for them as fast as the judge

00:06:15.000 served Tommy Robinson justice in this case. Because in this case, it's very easy for us to pick on the

00:06:20.280 bogeyman. But actually, the truth is that our silence over decades in this country is the real

00:06:26.120 bogeyman. And that's the real thing we should despise our own cowardice in the face of grooming

00:06:31.320 of young girls up and down this country and our conspiracy of silence.

00:06:35.240 Isn't that interesting? He can say those statistics because no one's going to call him a racist.

00:06:41.720 He's not anti-Pakistani. That is who he himself is. He says that by not talking about it,

00:06:48.600 other people fill the void. In that case, Tommy Robinson did. Can other people talk about this?

00:06:55.560 Or is the fear of being called racist even greater than the fear of rape, the most

00:07:02.360 atrocious crime imaginable? Well, we're going to have one of those difficult conversations today.

00:07:09.320 I came across our next guest sort of by accident. I would follow her on Twitter for her conservative

00:07:15.240 political commentary in the United Kingdom. I'm fascinated by that country and there's lessons

00:07:20.600 we can learn from them and warnings we can take from them. But I saw her one day, not as a political

00:07:28.760 pundit, but as a witness and I suppose a survivor herself of this grooming gang situation in the

00:07:37.480 United Kingdom, I saw her talk about it on the UK network called GB News. And I was surprised to

00:07:44.440 learn that she was here in Canada for a period of time. And I invited her by to have that same

00:07:51.080 challenging conversation. Here's my feature interview with Samantha Smith.

00:08:01.480 And joining me now is Samantha Smith. First of all, welcome. It's nice to

00:08:05.240 spend some time with you and to talk with you. Thank you for having me on, Nesra. I really

00:08:09.080 appreciate it. Well, I admire a lot of the places where you work. I love GB News. I think they're the

00:08:14.040 great, I think they're the best English language news and commentary station in the world. I mean,

00:08:19.720 I love Fox, of course, but GB News has some real characters. You're also on the BBC,

00:08:25.000 Talk TV. Are you a pundit? Are you a politician? How would you describe yourself?

00:08:32.200 I'd say I'm a bit of a jack of all trades. I do a lot of print journalism. That's my bread and butter.

00:08:37.720 That's what I really love doing. I write a lot for the male and the spectator. Good old-fashioned

00:08:43.800 bastions of free speech. They really are. I mean, they're great.

00:08:48.600 They really are. And I say that my focus is on education, social mobility, and justice.

00:08:55.240 You know, I follow you on Twitter very closely. It's very interesting. And there's a class

00:08:59.000 angle to things that we in the new world don't know about. I mean, we're vaguely aware of class,

00:09:04.760 but I think the idea of the American dream, you start at nothing and you move up and you admire

00:09:10.280 someone. You don't look down on someone. The idea of judging someone by their accent, for example.

00:09:15.560 I mean, I suppose people sometimes do that to the Southern accent. They think it's sort of hick,

00:09:19.880 but that's actually still pretty hardwired in the British system. Definitely. I mean, I come from a

00:09:25.400 very working class background. I would say my mother is a first generation immigrant. My father was

00:09:31.160 adopted. He didn't get a great education. I was born in Surrey, but I grew up in Telford. I moved

00:09:38.520 around quite a lot when I was younger. And the fact that I'm working class, that I am not privately

00:09:45.320 educated, that I'm just a run of the mill ordinary citizen, it seems very at odds with my accent. I

00:09:53.080 get a lot of comments on the flip side of things. People are often persecuted or prejudiced because of

00:09:58.600 their accents if they have a Northern accent or a working class accent. I often get assumptions that

00:10:04.760 I must be privileged upper class and that I must have some sort of fortunate background because of

00:10:12.120 the way I speak. And so I often am told that what happened to me couldn't have happened because I'm

00:10:18.600 living off of daddy's money and that I must come from a brilliant background. I must have gone to a

00:10:23.640 private school, privately educated, very, very well off. And that I, so I agree in Britain, especially

00:10:28.760 there is a massive, massive class divide and it's so, it's so complex and often people look surface

00:10:35.000 level. They look at skin color, they look at ethnicity, they look at religion, but the class

00:10:39.960 divide in the UK is so, is so apparent in the fact that for example, white working class boys are the least 0.97

00:10:45.240 likely to progress to higher education. They have the lowest, yeah, they have the lowest, the lowest outcomes

00:10:50.680 when it comes to careers, education, future prospects. And so I think it's very underrepresented,

00:10:57.720 especially in politics and in the media, the plight of, of young working class individuals.

00:11:02.920 And parliament itself. I mean, there are very few MPs, even for the Labour Party, that could truly be

00:11:08.520 called working class. Keir Starmer, the head of Labour, he's not working class. He's pretty fancy. 0.92

00:11:12.360 No, he, he caters to the metropolitan elite. That's what the late party is nowadays.

00:11:17.320 It's sort of like the Democrats. They're more about woke university faculty than they are about

00:11:21.480 the working man. I think that's why I identify with the conservative party. I'm, I'm a diehard

00:11:26.280 conservative, true blue. And the reason that I am so passionate about conservativism in, in the UK

00:11:33.640 is because they care about aspiration. They, like you said, they, they aspire to, to be greater than what

00:11:40.440 they are. It's all about hand ups, not hand outs. And the fact, the idea that no matter your ethnicity,

00:11:46.360 race, class background, you can achieve whatever you want to. I mean, that's evident in the fact

00:11:50.360 that we've just selected our third prime minister. I was going to say, Liz Truss, she, she's not

00:11:56.360 like the others. Tell us a little bit about Liz Truss. We're still trying to get to know who she is.

00:11:59.960 That was, Forrest Johnson was thrown out the window. A big battle to succeed him. Some very

00:12:05.400 interesting candidates. Final round Liz Truss versus Rishi Sunak. I mean, in his own way,

00:12:12.360 a trailblazer too. Tell us a little bit about Liz Truss, the new Bridge PM.

00:12:16.360 Well, Liz Truss is as about, as about as, as plain speaking as they come. She's, she's a remnant of 0.94

00:12:24.040 the Thatcher era, although she wasn't lived down when she was younger, but we can all be forgiven for 0.98

00:12:27.480 our sins. She is, you're right. Not like, not like the others. She comes from a working class background. 1.00

00:12:34.440 Her parents were both working class. They, you know, were not manual laborers, but they were, 0.93

00:12:39.800 they certainly weren't businessmen or millionaires. She grew up in a very ordinary town and very

00:12:45.160 ordinary house. She lived a very ordinary life. And the, the idea that she has become our third female

00:12:50.200 prime minister, that she is now the leader of the United Kingdom, one of the greatest powers in the

00:12:55.160 world, speaks to the fact that the conservative, that the conservative party is all about aspiration.

00:12:59.080 And the fact that we managed to achieve it without any all women shortlist or diversity quotas,

00:13:02.680 says a lot about, about the reality of diversity and equality that you can't force it. It has to,

00:13:08.360 has to happen naturally. And that individuals that are, you know, I'm, I'm mixed race. I'm

00:13:14.200 working class. My mother, I'm a second generation immigrant. And I would perish the thought of being

00:13:20.760 handed a job because white people had been told that, that it wasn't for them or that men had been

00:13:25.560 told that it, that it wasn't for them. They need to step aside. I think that it only fosters a lack of

00:13:30.920 aspiration in minority communities. And it suggests that, that we can't succeed off of our own merit,

00:13:36.680 that we need to have handouts. We need to have all women shortlists. We need to be 0.56

00:13:41.400 afforded special privilege, privileges in order to succeed. When in reality, women, ethnic minorities, 0.81

00:13:47.400 people of, of different religions, they are just as capable of, of succeeding if given an equal

00:13:52.760 playing field rather than elevating them beyond, beyond their peers.

00:13:58.280 You made me think of a short exchange in the House of Commons. I think it was Theresa May who got it

00:14:03.880 started talking about the fact that all three women PMs were towards you. Take a quick look at this. 0.99

00:14:08.200 I got a kick out of this video. Take a look.

00:14:10.520 I congratulate my right hon. Friend and welcome her to her position as the third female Prime Minister 0.99

00:14:16.440 in the United Kingdom. Can I ask my right hon. Friend, why does she think it is that all three

00:14:24.280 female Prime Ministers have been Conservative? 1.00

00:14:36.920 Well, I thank my right hon. Friend for her fantastic question. I look forward to calling on

00:14:43.800 her advice from her time in office as I start my work as Prime Minister. It is quite extraordinary,

00:14:53.800 isn't it? That there doesn't seem to be the ability in the Labour Party to find

00:14:59.720 a, a female leader or indeed a leader who doesn't come from North London. 0.99

00:15:03.960 Yeah. I mean, I just, I don't know what it is. I don't, I don't know, I don't know what the issue is.

00:15:11.080 Well, that's, that's a hoot and you're obviously a political commentator and it's a feast for political

00:15:15.640 commentators between Boris being ousted, the new, I mean, it was quite some drama who would be the new

00:15:21.400 PM who's going to be the cabinet. I mean, Britain is at a lot of crossroads. The shocking

00:15:26.520 rise in the price of energy in part because, you know, how do you put sanctions on Russia,

00:15:32.760 which is the one of the world's largest energy producers, one of the world's largest exporters

00:15:36.920 to Europe. Like there's a real crisis in the UK about energy bills. Give us a little bit of

00:15:41.400 the details. I don't think in Canada, like we complained recently with good reason about our

00:15:46.440 gasoline being about two bucks a litre, which is atrocious by the way, but natural gas for home

00:15:54.760 heating in the UK, I've seen some reports of it being 10 times normal. Give us some stats.

00:16:02.360 So energy prices were set to rise by a minimum of 8%, if not 12, 16% in, in some cases across the UK.

00:16:11.480 Energy bills were increasing by thousands, tens of thousands of pounds. Small businesses were

00:16:16.520 facing having to shutter their doors. So it was more than just 16%. Like I saw some pubs saying

00:16:21.560 last year, our energy bill was 2000 pounds. This year, they predicted to be 20,000. So it wasn't

00:16:26.040 just 16%. It was like 1600%. How is that even possible? How does that work? Well, it's because

00:16:35.080 with the rise in energy prices and the lack of infrastructure that we have domestically. So we don't

00:16:40.440 have a lot of our own natural resources. Obviously there's Scottish oil, there's British gas,

00:16:47.720 but a lot of our reliance did come from Russia and we have completely cut them off. We've

00:16:53.000 completely shuttered those operations. And so right now we're facing a struggle to get enough gas and

00:17:00.680 get enough oil and get enough natural resources to, to, to keep everyone's homes, homes heated and

00:17:08.840 homes warm and, and on. And what something that I think is very good, first of all, is that the,

00:17:15.160 is that the new Prime Minister Lewis Trust has pledged to scrap the national insurance tax rise. So it was

00:17:21.560 planned to rise from 19% to 25%. That was a policy put in place by Rishi Sunak. She has said that's

00:17:28.280 absolutely not going to happen. So that's going to put some immediate cash back into the pockets

00:17:31.480 of those that need it most. The ban on fracking has been lifted. That's so important. That's

00:17:34.920 incredible. I mean, when I think of the UK, I think of climate protesters, I think of extinction,

00:17:40.440 rebellion, gluing your hands to the most way. Yeah, the dumbest stuff. And so to say, boom, 1.00

00:17:45.240 we're getting rid of the ban on fracking. That's such an enormous change done really just with the wave

00:17:49.720 of a wand. That's incredible. Yeah. Nuclear energy is another thing that is being seriously

00:17:53.560 investigated by, by the conservative government at the moment, because, you know, it was Caroline

00:17:58.280 Lucas, I believe that said back in 2010, she said it would take 10 years to get nuclear energy off,

00:18:03.640 off the ground. And that was, and she said, she didn't, she didn't think there would be a need for

00:18:08.600 it, that it wasn't, that the, the need for nuclear energy didn't outweigh the demand and, and the, the

00:18:16.200 climate, the, the climate issues that come along with, with nuclear energy supposedly. But now it's 2022,

00:18:22.840 and we're facing the, the worst energy crisis we've had in, in modern memory. You know, the,

00:18:28.440 the idea of blackouts in, in winter in the 21st century is beyond comprehension. And so

00:18:34.600 right now the immediate focus is, I'd say re-evaluating net zero and green energy

00:18:41.320 policies, scrapping the green levy for now, which is used. So the green levy is used to

00:18:45.800 invest in sustainable schemes. That's a tax on top of people's energy bills. Scrapping that needs to come

00:18:50.840 first, in my opinion, lifting the, the ban on fracking is a brilliant first step towards

00:18:56.920 incentivizing domestic production of, of oil, gas, natural resources. I think that also

00:19:04.040 looking at some sort of energy, energy price cap, although it's, that's very dicey territory.

00:19:09.800 Yeah. You don't want to get into price, you know, setting the price. It's a little Marxist.

00:19:13.480 Exactly. You know, it's funny because Boris Johnson, what a character. And by the way, his,

00:19:17.720 his eulogy to the queen in parliament was the best I've ever heard. Would you agree with me that one

00:19:24.680 of the reasons he was given the heave-ho was because of the lockdowns, the cheating and the

00:19:29.000 rule breaking. And is, is that an accurate, I mean, there were a number of reasons. He was sort of a

00:19:33.800 mess in a number of ways, but was the, the straw that broke the camel's back, was it because he knew

00:19:39.480 about parties that broke the rule? Was that, is that an accurate assessment of the final reason

00:19:44.440 that gave him the boot? I wouldn't say that would be the final reason because we saw him continue on.

00:19:47.960 We saw him carry on afterwards. There were massive, there was massive uproar both within the party and,

00:19:52.760 and in the public eye, but we didn't see the wave of resignations come until the, the Chris

00:19:57.480 Pinscher scandal broke. And that was very much along the same lines of sleaze in government and of, you

00:20:04.840 know, impropriety, impropriety and cover ups, the cover up culture in Westminster. But I would say

00:20:11.240 that the things that made Boris the most popular, the things that made him an election winner, the

00:20:15.400 things that people loved about him, you know, that he didn't play by the rules, that he was a character,

00:20:19.560 that he was a showman. It was, you know, no one can out Boris Boris. That was, that's what has always

00:20:24.040 been said. It's true. The, the Borisisms that made him so popular are what were his undoing in the end,

00:20:29.800 because in a time of national crisis, in a time of pandemic and energy crisis and imposing recession,

00:20:37.000 impeding recession, we don't want a showman. We want someone that's, that's going to keep calm and

00:20:42.760 carry on. That's going to, to put money back in the pockets of British people. We want a strong

00:20:47.560 conservative leader. And I think that Boris ventured too far into the realms of populism. He changed his

00:20:53.880 policies on, on a whim, you know, often, often at the, at the, the wishes of Carrie of his wife,

00:20:59.640 Carrie Simmons, who was a very big climate, climate protester. Oh, really? Yeah. She, you know, she, 0.98

00:21:05.960 granted a lot of the work she did was absolutely brilliant, but it was, it very much felt at times

00:21:11.720 like Carrie was running the operation rather than Boris. And I would say that, that, that Liz Truss, 1.00

00:21:19.080 moving forward, she is going to want to assert herself as the complete opposite of Boris. She's

00:21:24.200 going to want to make a clean break and show the Conservative Party is merging into a different

00:21:28.600 direction because the last thing that the British public want and the thing that will hurt us most

00:21:34.120 in the election as a Conservative Party member and as a Conservative Party voter would be more of the same.

00:21:39.160 Hmm. There's so much interesting in the UK. I used to go there fairly often, but of course,

00:21:44.760 uh, I'm on Trudeau's no-fly list. That was for the longest time. Listen, I was glad to talk with

00:21:49.960 you about the UK. I'm interested in it. A lot of our viewers are. We have two reporters there now,

00:21:54.120 Louis Brackpool and Ed Crawford just joined us as a producer. Um, and you have a lot to say,

00:22:00.760 but I follow you on Twitter. I enjoy seeing what's up and you're pretty young. I mean, you're,

00:22:05.480 you're a 20 year old student at law school in the University of Durham, which is interesting in the UK.

00:22:10.600 I guess you can go straight into law school. You don't need your degree first, but you alluded to

00:22:15.480 something very quickly in passing about your own background. And I want to come back to that because

00:22:20.840 there's an extremely difficult subject in the United Kingdom to talk about. It's hard to talk

00:22:26.360 about it because it's, it's always hard to talk about some horrific crimes, but if there's an element

00:22:33.000 of race or class or there, there are extra reasons why this subject is so hard to talk about. Um, many

00:22:41.240 of our viewers know about the story of Rotherham, a city of about a quarter million, where at least

00:22:47.880 1400 girls, and I don't mean women. I mean, girls were systematically groomed and raped in a city of 0.54

00:22:56.520 250,000. How could you not know that 1400 and the Rotherham inquiry showed that people did know,

00:23:04.680 but they were more afraid of being called racist. In fact, that phrase appears again and again

00:23:10.760 in the official Rotherham inquiry. Police, social workers, doctors were afraid of

00:23:17.960 ringing the bell because it was typically white working class girls who were targeted. 1.00

00:23:22.280 And I'm sorry to say it, it was typically Pakistani, Muslim, British rape gangs. And I know this, 1.00

00:23:31.720 you have to be careful about that. You don't want to paint with a broad brush.

00:23:35.640 In the end, they brought in a Pakistani Muslim prosecutor, which I think was a brilliant solution 1.00

00:23:41.880 because no one could, would accuse him of racism. But imagine being so paralyzed by fear

00:23:48.200 that you were more afraid of being called racist than to stop. And that's just one city. And there's

00:23:54.680 Telford and there, there's Roschdale and there's so many. Tell me your story. And I'm afraid to talk about

00:24:02.440 this. I'm afraid to ask about it. But you lived through this.

00:24:06.360 Yeah, so I was abused from the age of five to 14, roughly. I was abused for nearly a decade by

00:24:14.200 successive men at different times throughout my life. I'm a victim of, I say survivor. I prefer

00:24:19.800 the term survivor. I'm a survivor of grooming, of child sexual abuse. I'm not personally a victim of

00:24:26.920 CSE in the way, you know, Pakistani grooming gangs. I was abused by some Pakistani men. I was abused by 0.77

00:24:35.640 some white men. I was abused by, by different people throughout my life. But I grew up in Telford 0.95

00:24:42.040 and the experience that, that I has, when it comes to police, social services, local council,

00:24:47.720 those in positions of power is all too familiar to those that are, that have followed the cases in

00:24:55.000 Rotherham, Rochdale, Telford, Oldham, Halifax. You can name the, the list goes on and on. And

00:25:02.040 for me, I, you know, I've been on GB News quite a lot speaking about it. I've written a few articles as well.

00:25:07.320 My, my experience was that those in positions of power found it far easier to blame the children.

00:25:14.040 And let me get this clip, get this straight. These are children, not young women, not prostitutes, 0.97

00:25:19.320 not madams, not, you know, adults. They are children being raped and groomed and exploited, 1.00

00:25:25.560 and even murdered in some cases. You know, you look at, if you look at the case of Lucy Lowe in Telford,

00:25:29.560 she was, her and her family were burned to death in house fire by her rapist, by a Pakistani man

00:25:37.080 who had groomed her as part, as part of a, a grooming gang in Telford. And only her daughter 0.57

00:25:42.840 and her father survived, survived the house fire. And they, Tasnim, Lucy's daughter went on to

00:25:51.480 expose a lot of what her mother experienced. But many, many girls in areas like Telford,

00:25:57.480 many girls like me found that, that we were victimized, that we were blamed, that we were

00:26:02.440 criminalized rather than believed, because it's far easier to, to blame the victim than to prosecute

00:26:08.120 the perpetrators. I, I'd also say that over decades in the UK, in, in Telford especially, so for 30 years,

00:26:17.320 the Telford report that came out recently, it was shown that, that police had failed in their most basic

00:26:23.480 duty, quote unquote, to report and to investigate purported incidents of child sexual exploitation.

00:26:30.280 They would witness girls coming into the police station, claiming to have been raped, saying that

00:26:36.280 they were, their faces were pressed down to the gravel while they were raped by successive men. 0.68

00:26:41.560 This is a true story where a young girl, she was raped in a graveyard, her face pushed down to the gravel,

00:26:49.400 gravel forced down her throat when she tried to scream, and she reported her, her abuse and nothing

00:26:54.200 was done about it. There are countless other, over 1000 girls in Telford were, were victims of child

00:26:59.960 sexual exploitation for, over a period of, of around 30 years, for, under the purview of the Telford

00:27:06.520 Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Exploitation. But wider than that, Telford is also the child sex crime

00:27:13.240 capital of the UK. More children in Telford are sexually abused per capita than anywhere else in

00:27:20.120 the UK. That beats Rotherham, Rochdale, Oldham, Greater Manchester. And that's not a list that you

00:27:25.080 want to be at the top of, but yet so few people have heard about my town, about my hometown, because

00:27:30.680 it's flown under the radar because those in positions of power have turned a blind eye for so long.

00:27:34.760 And girls who don't have access to, you know, well-off parents, who don't have those that are fighting 0.71

00:27:42.040 their corners, they have had nowhere to turn. They've tried to, to go down the traditional

00:27:47.240 routes for support. You know, they've gone to their GPs, they've gone to their school,

00:27:50.680 they've gone to sexual health clinics when they've shown up pregnant at 13, you know, week after week 0.52

00:27:54.360 asking for contraception, morning after pill, et cetera, et cetera. And those that were supposed to

00:27:59.480 help them, those that were tasked with, with protecting them and safeguarding them, turned a blind eye,

00:28:05.000 and in some cases, criminalised them, accused them of asking for it, said that they were 1.00

00:28:10.680 packy shaggers, white slags, child prostitutes. That was a big thing in Telford. 1.00

00:28:15.960 Girls were told that they were asking for it and that they had entered into that lifestyle. 1.00

00:28:20.280 I remember when I, when I went to the police to report my abuse, they asked whether I had consented

00:28:25.080 at any point, which I thought was laughable. The idea that a five-year-old can, can give consent to

00:28:30.360 sexual activity is, is beyond belief. I can't believe I have to say it, but children can't consent to sex.

00:28:36.120 Children can't be asking for it. Children can't be child prostitutes. Children cannot be at fault 0.99

00:28:42.520 in the case of sexual abuse. The adult men that perpetrate these crimes are always the ones at fault.

00:28:50.440 A few years ago, I was involved with the case of, uh, Chelsea Wright in the city of Sunderland.

00:28:56.600 She was a working class white woman and she needed a little bit of legal help in a situation similar, 1.00

00:29:04.760 not, not the same, but there was an accusation of a, of a gang rape. And we had, we were working

00:29:12.120 with a very prestigious London law firm. And when we asked for their help, just to do some legal

00:29:18.280 paperwork, they said yes. But the next day I got an email from the partner saying they had a man,

00:29:23.640 a partners meeting and they would not help Chelsea for quote reputational reasons. She was a rape 1.00

00:29:30.120 victim. She, she, she was a pure victim. She had no politics. She had, but because the accused rapists 0.73

00:29:38.120 were a politically sensitive group, this prestigious law firm refused to help. What were they afraid of?

00:29:46.920 Quite simply, they were afraid of being accused of racism. That's what we, that's what we see in the

00:29:51.800 Telford report and the Rotherham report and the Rochdale report. It's been stated over and over

00:29:57.000 and over again, you know, in, in successive investigations into what went wrong in areas

00:30:02.200 like my own. It was shown that those, those responsible organizations refrained from reporting

00:30:11.400 and investigating for fear of being called racist. That was put in, in quotation marks in the Telford

00:30:16.200 report that they failed to act due to fears of racism. That Pakistani men who are predominantly,

00:30:26.600 this is, this is not some sort of wild accusation, some unfounded suggestion. It's true that the, the,

00:30:34.280 the primary demography that is committing these crimes are British Pakistani Muslim men. And that the 0.99

00:30:41.560 victims are predominantly white working class girls. There are exceptions. There are girls who were 0.84

00:30:47.960 African, who were Indian, who are Pakistani, who were mixed race. But these two groups are the ones 1.00

00:30:55.080 that in this specific type of crime are, are most commonly involved. And in the case of police,

00:31:02.920 local council in Telford social services, they failed to act because they didn't want to be accused of

00:31:09.320 being racist against British Pakistani men. And in doing so, they neglected the plight and, and the justice

00:31:17.080 that, that young innocent girls, victims like, like Chelsea deserved. 0.94

00:31:26.840 I don't think people in North America understand this. It may be happening here. I don't know.

00:31:31.960 I don't know. But if it is happening, it doesn't feel like it has the same template as over there. I

00:31:39.640 could be wrong. Maybe I'm just not opening my eyes to it. Can you, uh, help us understand how this

00:31:49.880 grooming process, I mean, the word grooming doesn't sound as disastrous and violent as it is, but it's a

00:31:57.720 process of taking a normal child, a healthy child who maybe is afraid of strangers. How do you turn that

00:32:06.760 normal child into a rape victim? Can you tell us how that process happens? Like an example of it?

00:32:14.840 So you are right that it does follow a template. In many cases of child exploitation in the UK,

00:32:21.480 you can see the same pattern of behaviour and the same pattern of exploitation occurring with, with

00:32:27.800 girls up and down our nation. It usually starts with, with a vulnerable girl. These are predominantly 0.97

00:32:34.040 vulnerable girls. So those that are in the care system were often targeted. I was under social

00:32:37.560 services myself for, for a few years. And, and I can say with absolute certainty that

00:32:43.640 it was very easy for us to fall through the cracks and the systems like that, because

00:32:50.280 those in, those in charge simply didn't care. We were often seen as, as disasters waiting to happen,

00:32:55.000 as though we, we would never have any, any sort of positive contribution to society. So they were

00:33:00.600 biding their, biding their time before they could release us into the world and, and, and relinquish all

00:33:05.960 responsibility over us. So it would often be young, vulnerable girls, many of them white and working

00:33:10.360 class who were either in care, had absentee parents, didn't have a great education, came from an

00:33:15.320 impoverished area. So that's why many, many areas in the north, Rotherham, Rochdale, Oldham have seen

00:33:21.720 such, such massive scandals. Telford is another one, although we're, we're in the Midlands because there

00:33:27.720 are very, very large pockets of, of poverty in, in those towns. They would be kebab shop workers, taxi

00:33:35.560 drivers, takeaway owners that would pick up girls off the streets, that would ply them with alcohol, 1.00

00:33:41.560 money, food, gifts, rides. They would drive them around in their taxis, give them free kebabs,

00:33:47.400 give them vodka and cigarettes. You know, the, the traditional grooming process of, you know,

00:33:52.920 stranger danger, never, never accept gifts from a stranger. And this would slowly progress onto,

00:33:59.320 in some cases, relationships. These adult men, 30, 40, 50 year old men would convince young girls that

00:34:06.680 they were in relationships with them, that they were, that this, this adult man was your boyfriend,

00:34:11.160 that you were in a consensual relationship and therefore it was normal to have sex and to please

00:34:15.080 him and to, to do whatever he wanted. In some other cases, it would be straight up rape, sexual assault, 0.75

00:34:22.520 forced from the very beginning. But in, in many cases, girls were groomed into thinking that they 0.67

00:34:26.920 wanted it into thinking that they had asked for it, which is why it was so difficult for many girls

00:34:32.040 to come forward and report later on in life. I struggled with that myself. I, I, for many years,

00:34:36.840 felt like I was responsible for it somehow because in a, in a twisted and horrible way, I, I somehow

00:34:45.240 liked, not liked, but I, I got a positive feeling when I, when I had positive reinforcement from these men.

00:34:52.600 You know, I, it was the feeling of, oh, I'm loved, I'm wanted, I'm appreciated,

00:34:56.600 I'm valued. And that's what many of these girls were often missing in their lives. They didn't

00:35:00.840 have a family of positive role models that would support them and that would provide that positive

00:35:05.080 reassurance. And so when adult men came along, gave them gifts, gave them food, gave them money,

00:35:11.720 told them they were beautiful and they loved them and that they were, they were their boyfriends,

00:35:16.600 of course you're, it's only natural for a young girl to gravitate towards that. And then it would open

00:35:22.200 up into, oh, well, I want you to, to have sex with my brother. If you love me, you'll go and, 1.00

00:35:27.000 you'll go and have sex with my friend. You'll do this for me. You'll do this for me because you love me. 1.00

00:35:31.400 Or in, in, in the other, in the other predominant pathway, I suppose you could say,

00:35:38.200 with this sort of crime, they would be taken to, to parties with, with large groups of Pakistani men,

00:35:45.720 with grooming gangs, and they would be passed around like party favours. They would be brought

00:35:50.280 to a, to a kebab shop and in the back room, they'd be raped by six, seven, eight different men. 0.97

00:35:54.680 They would be ferried around in a taxi to, to have sex with different men for money. And they were, 0.97

00:36:00.120 they were essentially pimped out. Children were being pimped out on the streets of, of Telford,

00:36:04.840 Oldham, Rochdale, Rotherham, Halifax, across the UK. And police, social services, local councils turned a

00:36:11.720 blind eye. They knew that it was happening. As you said, they were entirely aware that this sort of,

00:36:17.080 this sort of crime was occurring, but they willfully ignored it because it was, it was far easier,

00:36:24.040 like I said, to blame the victims than to prosecute the perpetrators. Girls were literally picked up 1.00

00:36:30.200 from the doors of, of the police station by their abusers after reporting their rape. They were, they

00:36:36.360 went to the police station. They went to a supposed safe haven to report the abuse they had suffered,

00:36:40.840 were completely ignored and dismissed, and then were picked up by their rapist to continue with,

00:36:47.000 with the abuse cycle. Other girls would go to sexual health clinics week after week after week, 1.00

00:36:52.840 asking for the morning after pill, asking for, for contraception. And these were 11, 12, 13, 14 year

00:36:59.800 old girls, girls that had no business being in sexual health clinic every week, asking for the morning 1.00

00:37:05.480 after pill. And, and like I said, children can't consent. The age of consent in the UK is 16 years

00:37:11.560 old. Anything under that, whether or not it is quote unquote consensual is statutory rape. And yet,

00:37:18.040 those in positions of power were turning a blind eye because they simply didn't care. They didn't think

00:37:22.440 that these young working class girls were worthy of support and worthy of justice and worthy of

00:37:27.560 protecting. They saw them as troublemakers and as prostitutes and as white slags, packy shagas. 0.99

00:37:34.280 They viewed them as, as somehow beneath, beneath help and beneath saving and beneath support. 0.98

00:37:44.360 I read stories in newspapers about the entrapment, not just once a girl might be 0.98

00:37:51.640 pressured or persuaded or given alcohol and her guard is down and engages in some sexuality,

00:37:58.680 then there's a blackmail element too. You've done this. If you don't do more, I'll show,

00:38:05.000 I'll show your family, I'll tell your family what you do. So it's, it's the positive reinforcement.

00:38:09.880 It's the drugs and alcohol, but it's also the blackmail. Yeah. I, when I was being abused, I remember

00:38:17.080 being told that if I didn't do what I was told, then they would show up on my doorstep.

00:38:21.800 And, and either hurt me, hurt my family or expose everything that I've been doing that I had done.

00:38:29.000 Every, the responsibility is always placed on the girl, on the child, that this is your

00:38:33.960 responsibility. You put yourself in this position. And if you don't continue to do what we tell you,

00:38:38.920 we will expose your sins, your moral transgressions, your misbehaviour, your crimes,

00:38:47.080 whatever it is that, whatever it is that you have supposedly done, we will expose that because you

00:38:51.880 are the person that's in the wrong here. You brought this on yourself. You deserve this. And so

00:38:58.760 girls would often feel like it was their only option, like there was no escape.

00:39:02.760 And in the case of Lucy Lowe, for example, she tried to get out, she tried to escape,

00:39:07.880 and she faced threats for months and months and months that her abuser was going to burn her house

00:39:14.920 down, was going to murder her, was going to kill her, was going to bring harm to her family. And

00:39:19.720 eventually one day it happened. She was burned to death. She was pregnant with her second child,

00:39:23.720 by the way, by the same, by the same man. Her, her first child, Tasnim survived, was placed outside

00:39:31.560 on the, on the grass by her father, by, by the rapist and her, her grandfather, Tasnim's grandfather

00:39:37.640 managed to climb out of the window and also survived. But girls, and in many cases, Lucy's, Lucy's case,

00:39:45.960 her death, her passing, her murder, was used an example, as an example by other grooming gangs, 0.67

00:39:51.160 by other rapists that said, you're going to end up like Lucy if you don't comply. 1.00

00:39:58.040 I heard stories of a mother who might rescue her daughter, take her to the police, 0.98

00:40:04.200 and the police would say, look at you, an atrocious mother, if you don't shut up, 1.00

00:40:08.200 we'll charge you with endangering your child. Or look at your daughter, she's drunk right now, 1.00

00:40:13.480 you let that happen. Shut up or we'll prosecute you. I, I found that almost impossible to fathom, 1.00

00:40:21.560 but, but it sounds like that's true. Well, it's a culture of ignorance,

00:40:25.080 incompetence and victim blaming. And this is what I mean when I say that, that responsibility and, and,

00:40:32.440 and complicit, complicity goes right to the very top of, of these organizations in areas like Telford.

00:40:38.920 So the, the cabinet member for children and young people in Telford and Recon Council had to resign

00:40:44.680 over the CSE scandal, because it was found that he was complicit and that the services that he

00:40:49.800 oversaw were complicit in ignoring the systematic grooming, rape, exploitation, and abuse of found,

00:40:56.120 of hundreds, of over 1000 young girls, little girls, and parents, like I said, girls and families

00:41:04.280 who came from, from disadvantaged, impoverished backgrounds, who didn't have the education,

00:41:09.480 who didn't have the means to support themselves or defend themselves,

00:41:12.280 were made to feel responsible for the abuse that they or their children had suffered.

00:41:16.280 They were, they were in fear of, of having their children taken away from them if they

00:41:21.720 dared to speak out about the abuse that their children were suffering, because somehow it was

00:41:25.960 always twisted that, that this was the child's responsibility or the family's responsibility was

00:41:30.520 anybody but the perpetrator's fault. Were any of the politicians or the police

00:41:38.520 in on it as participants? Were any police or politicians, rapists as well?

00:41:43.000 In some areas, yes. I don't think it was, as far as I'm aware, it wasn't widespread in,

00:41:49.240 with regards to active participation. But there have been cases where, I believe it, I believe it was in

00:41:54.600 Rochdale, where a police officer, a police sergeant was convicted of, of being part of a grooming gang,

00:42:02.440 that he actually participated in the rape, exploitation and abuse of young girls. But I

00:42:07.800 don't believe that that in itself is, is a systemic problem. The problem in, in areas like Telford is that

00:42:14.840 those in positions of power may not have held the girls down and raped, raped them, or passed them 0.65

00:42:20.760 around to, to their friends or family. But the fact that they turned a blind eye for so long, 0.57

00:42:26.120 for decades, makes them just as complicit as, as the men, as the perpetrators themselves.

00:42:33.400 There was the inquiry in, rather than the inquiry in Telford, you're telling your story,

00:42:39.560 which must be very difficult to do. I can imagine most girls don't want to relive it, don't want to

00:42:46.760 talk about it, don't want to maybe be embarrassed by it. I don't know if that's a feeling that

00:42:51.000 some victims have. I don't know. Well, I, I would say that

00:42:55.480 reports like the Rotherham report, like the Telford report, like the Rochdale report,

00:42:58.920 wouldn't have come about without the bravery, determination and grit of survivors, victims

00:43:04.120 and their families. Without girls that stuck their head above the parapet and refused to be blamed for

00:43:10.360 the abuse they suffered, none of this would have ever come to light. And without the bravery of

00:43:14.440 whistleblowers, so Maggie Oliver is a fantastic champion of, of young survivors and victims of

00:43:21.320 CSE across the country. She was a Greater Manchester police officer. She blew the whistle on, on the

00:43:28.360 child sexual exploitation scandal that she was investigating and ended up losing her job. They,

00:43:34.200 her life was almost ruined because she dared to speak out about thousands of girls being 1.00

00:43:39.480 systematically raped and abused. And so I would say, while it is very difficult to speak out,

00:43:45.880 it is very difficult to relive one's experiences and to make yourself vulnerable. I mean, I, I still

00:43:52.520 struggle with it a lot. I have to do a lot of, a lot of mental preparation to be able to speak about

00:43:58.760 my experience and my abuse. But I would say that victims and survivors are nothing if not brave.

00:44:06.840 There, there is so much, so much bravery and so much determination and, and, and so much willingness

00:44:16.920 to continue fighting, even though they've been knocked down so many times. I would say it's,

00:44:21.720 it's an absolute testament to survivors that we are now able to have an open conversation about this.

00:44:27.080 And girls are now beginning to be believed about the abuse they suffered. Because without, 0.87

00:44:32.840 without those crusaders, those, those champions of, of the cause that, that fought the good fight

00:44:38.760 before anyone else was willing to, we wouldn't be in the position that we're in today.

00:44:45.000 Has anything changed? I mean, there's these reports, has there been,

00:44:50.040 has anything actually changed? I would say that there is a great deal more awareness.

00:44:56.600 You know, if 20 years ago, no one would be talking about this. The child, the term child sexual

00:45:00.680 exploitation didn't even exist at that point. The idea that group based grooming gangs could be

00:45:07.480 operating in towns and cities across the UK was beyond belief, beyond comprehension. You know,

00:45:12.360 it just wasn't something that was talked about. It was in many communities, an open secret, you know,

00:45:17.400 girls on the ground and families knew that it was happening. Police, social services, local councils also knew,

00:45:22.920 but it wasn't something that you would see broadcast in, in the national media or talked about or inquiries

00:45:30.120 held. But now there's tougher sentencing for, for serious sexual offenders. That's something that came

00:45:38.120 about after the successive CSE scandals were exposed. There is open debate in the House of Commons. You

00:45:44.680 know, there are MPs like Sarah Champion, Lucy Allen, my own MP, who are fighting for justice for victims and

00:45:51.720 their families who are leading, leading the way in when it comes to legislative change. There is.

00:45:58.520 But there's also those who say it's against social cohesion to talk about this. It's against community

00:46:07.240 cohesion. Even I've even seen members of parliament say that don't pull us apart by talking about this,

00:46:15.400 by talking about who's doing it and who it's being done to. You're pulling our community apart.

00:46:20.520 I've heard that even from MPs in the UK. I'd say that many, many organizations, MPs,

00:46:27.320 councils want to pretend like CSE is a crime of the past, as though mistakes were made and lessons

00:46:33.400 have been learned and this doesn't happen anymore. But the sad truth is that it is still happening in

00:46:39.160 towns and cities across the UK. In 2020 alone over, I think it was approximately 300 cases of, of potential

00:46:49.080 child sexual exploitation. So this is group based gang, raping, exploit, exploitation and abuse of

00:46:55.880 young girls was reported in England and Wales. So this is a crime that is still going on. It hasn't

00:47:01.400 stopped. And then there is massive progress to be made still in, in recognizing the abuse in, in

00:47:08.280 investigating crimes and in prosecuting the perpetrators. Because while thousands upon thousands of

00:47:14.280 girls have been abused across the UK, very few rapists are in prison. Very few people have been

00:47:19.880 brought to justice for the brutal exploitation and abuse of thousands of young girls.

00:47:26.520 You know, I, I follow the UK media enough that when there is a conviction of a rape gang,

00:47:32.120 let's say there's five people or 10 people or 20 people. Here's what I hate about the media coverage.

00:47:37.000 Rape gang or grooming gang sentenced to a hundred years. And you read it, it's 20 guys who got five

00:47:46.200 years each and they're probably out in three or two. I don't know what parole is like.

00:47:50.680 Hundred years prison. No, no, no. Yeah. Five years each. They're not each doing a hundred.

00:47:57.160 And it's, it's a lot. And these, this isn't even, I mean, for one rape, but often these are again and

00:48:03.000 again and again, dozens or hundreds of times. I don't even know if that can be called a serious

00:48:10.520 country with a serious justice system. And I think the media knows it because they're trying to

00:48:15.000 twist the headline a hundred years. No, no. It was 20 for five years each.

00:48:19.240 I think it's important to remember as well that only 1.3% of rape cases in the UK make it to court.

00:48:27.240 That's 98.7% of rape cases in the UK, never reaching a courtroom, never reaching trial.

00:48:34.680 And so the, for, as I said earlier, for the thousands of girls that were abused,

00:48:40.760 raped, exploited, even murdered, only a very tiny minority will ever have legal justice

00:48:47.320 for the abuse they suffered. And you are right that, that in many cases, the,

00:48:52.840 the crimes handed down to, to perpetrators, to those convicted are often overstated or blown up

00:49:01.880 to, to make it seem as though justice had been served to a greater extent than, than in reality.

00:49:06.760 But I would also say once again, that things aren't good, things aren't where they should be,

00:49:14.200 but things are also a lot better than they were 10, 15, 20 years ago.

00:49:18.520 You know, the, the early release of, of serious sexual offenders and violent offenders has been

00:49:24.120 scrapped. That was a, that was a white paper that was brought in. There's stricter sentencing

00:49:30.280 regulations for, for serious sexual and violent offenders. There is the end of early release

00:49:36.920 for, for convicted sex offenders. I think that there's a ways to go in ensuring effective prosecution

00:49:44.760 for rape, child sexual abuse, child sexual exploitation, grooming, et cetera. But it's

00:49:50.760 important to acknowledge the steps that have been taken and the, the improvements that have been made.

00:49:57.880 Well, I can't imagine how brave you are. And, uh, and you're on, you're on a positive,

00:50:04.680 exciting, ambitious path. I mean, 20 year old student in law school, University of Durham,

00:50:09.640 political commentator columnist. You're doing a lot of amazing things. Thank you.

00:50:14.920 But I understand that you recently were on GB news. That's my favorite broadcaster over there.

00:50:19.800 Talking about this subject is a very difficult subject to handle, to talk about. I can only imagine

00:50:27.080 how difficult it is to live it and then to talk about it. I understand that after one such courageous

00:50:32.360 TV presentation, you were contacted by police afterwards. Is that true? Yes. So I was on GB news.

00:50:41.160 I was on the Mark Stein show. Mark is absolutely brilliant when it comes to, to addressing and

00:50:45.720 bringing to light and shining a spotlight on child sexual exploitation in particular and grooming gangs.

00:50:51.080 He spent many years interviewing victims and survivors and their families. This is something

00:50:55.720 that GB news is very passionate about. And I'm always very, very grateful for their continued

00:51:00.920 pursuant of, of this, of this issue. I went on to speak about child sexual exploitation in Telford,

00:51:09.720 the recent, the upcoming release at that time of, of the independent inquiry into CSE in Telford.

00:51:17.720 The, the report that was due to be released in the coming weeks and the fact that child sexual

00:51:23.640 exploitation and child grooming were still going on in towns and cities like Telford up and down,

00:51:28.280 up and down the country. And the very next day, you know, bear in mind that, that I never faced legal

00:51:33.800 justice for the abuse that I suffered for the decades worth of, decade worth of abuse that I suffered.

00:51:38.360 But, and the police turned a blind eye, frankly. The, as soon as I went on national TV to speak about

00:51:46.360 my experience, the experience of girls like me and the, the Telford CSE scandal. The very next day,

00:51:54.200 police showed up on my door, two officers, two male officers banged on my door,

00:52:00.040 you know, as, as, as threatening and as, and as imposing as could be. And told me that when you go

00:52:05.960 on national TV, when you go on GB news to talk about CSE in Telford, it's our duty to follow up with you.

00:52:13.720 And let me, let me be clear. It wasn't their duty at all. It wasn't. What duty? What possible duty is that?

00:52:17.960 Exactly. They weren't. That's not your duty. You're a police officer, not a media sensor,

00:52:21.800 or maybe that is what police do these days. As far as I was concerned, the way that they came across

00:52:26.760 was very, was very intimidatory. They had very, they had very little to do with,

00:52:33.880 with the pursuit of justice and far more to do with the pursuit of intimidation and silencing.

00:52:38.920 Yeah. The fact that they came to your home is intimidating in itself. We know where you are

00:52:43.640 unannounced. Now, if you were to say, and by that they mean they asked me questions and then they

00:52:50.760 investigated who your abusers were. Okay. You had a duty to follow up. You heard of crimes that had

00:52:59.080 not been solved. Your duty was okay. Okay. So you're launching an investigation that I understand.

00:53:05.800 What did they say? Was it you that were investigating? It felt very much like that.

00:53:11.240 You know, there was, there was very little that, that they said that had any substance behind it.

00:53:16.440 It felt like they had very, very little reason and very few grounds on which to be, to be knocking

00:53:23.160 on my door at midday on a Tuesday while I had chicken in a pan in the kitchen. You know, I was in

00:53:28.600 the middle of cooking my lunch, which by the way, I burned and I was very upset about that. So then I wasted

00:53:32.600 probably good chicken talking, talking to them. But they tried to coerce me into going to the police

00:53:40.120 station to talk to them for a formal interview, which as someone that has been let down by the

00:53:45.400 police, I'm naturally wary of, of, of complying with those sorts of demands. They offered to take me in

00:53:50.760 their squad cards, take me to have a police escort to the station. They wouldn't leave me alone until I

00:53:56.200 agreed to a formal interview. It very much felt as though they were addressing me as some sort of

00:54:02.200 criminal or a perpetrator rather than a victim and a survivor. And the, you know, you're very

00:54:09.880 right. If it, if they had legitimate concerns or legitimate grounds on which to be, to be questioning

00:54:15.480 me, you know, as, as a potential help to them in investigating child sexual exploitation, then I

00:54:22.600 could understand it. But the way that it came across to me was as though they were trying to scare me into

00:54:28.840 silence. And I came away from that interaction, genuinely wondering, did I do something wrong?

00:54:33.240 Had I somehow provoked this? Had I invoked their, their questioning and their, their, you know,

00:54:39.720 descending upon my, upon my place of residence? But I, when I, when I spoke to friends and I spoke to

00:54:46.840 colleagues, they all said, absolutely not. You did nothing. They were overstepping their boundaries

00:54:53.240 by showing up on your doorstep and trying to scare you and trying to intimidate you in silence.

00:54:59.160 And it was very, very interesting to me that as, as I said, they, they showed up on my doorstep

00:55:06.920 unannounced, but they told me that they had just gone to that place of residence, that address. They

00:55:11.480 had gone around every single address that I had previously been registered at in person looking for

00:55:16.200 me. Bear in mind, they had my phone number. They had my email address. They had plenty of, of legitimate

00:55:21.320 ways to contact me that didn't involve going and knocking on every, on every potential place of

00:55:26.680 residence that I could be at. You know, under any normal circumstances, you would give someone a

00:55:32.040 phone call or a courtesy email and say, hi, we'd love to speak to you about, about your recent

00:55:36.520 interview. If there's any way you could help us, we would really appreciate it if you could, if we

00:55:40.440 could organize the time to speak. But they didn't do that. They came and banged on my door,

00:55:47.240 demanding that I, that I come in for questioning over. I don't know what, frankly, besides the fact

00:55:54.520 that I had gone on national TV and speak and spoken about the, the Telford CSE scandal.

00:56:02.840 Well, that tells me that things are not yet resolved in the United Kingdom. Well, listen,

00:56:07.000 Samantha Smith, pleasure to talk with you at such length. We'll continue to watch you on social media

00:56:13.800 and wish you good luck in your law studies. I think you'll be an excellent lawyer. Thank you very

00:56:18.040 much. And, um, I hope we can keep in touch. This slow motion disaster that has been going on,

00:56:25.640 as you say, for decades is a great shame on the United Kingdom. And then for all we know,

00:56:30.760 it may be happening in Canada too, though we don't know if it's happening in the same manner.

00:56:36.760 I think you're very brave and I appreciate you speaking so candidly today. Thank you very much for

00:56:40.600 having me as well. All right. It's my pleasure. Stay with us. My final thoughts are next.

00:56:52.280 Well, what do you think about that? It's a difficult conversation to have, but

00:56:55.880 listen, if it's difficult to talk about it, imagine the pain of enduring it and thousands,

00:57:01.160 tens of thousands, maybe even over a hundred thousand British girls have been raped that way. 1.00

00:57:06.920 It's atrocious and not talking about it. Averting your eyes, pretending to hear no evil,

00:57:11.800 see no evil is not the way. So we will at least talk about it. Let me know what you think. Send me

00:57:17.960 an email to Ezra at rebelnews.com. That's our show for today. Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here

00:57:24.280 at Rebel News Headquarters to you at home, good night and keep fighting for freedom.

Rebel News Podcast - September 14, 2022

EZRA LEVANT ｜ A heartbreaking and infuriating interview with a victim of child sexual exploitation in the United Kingdom

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