Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Jurors move towards verdict in Coutts Four trial

00:00:00.220 Hello, my friend. It's about time that we have a catch-up with Robert Kraychuk.

00:00:04.440 He is our court reporter who's been in Lethbridge, Alberta, for the trial of the Coutts 3 and the Coutts 4.

00:00:11.440 Who are these seven men?

00:00:13.600 Well, they are charged with various crimes emanating from the border blockade during the trucker convoy of 2022.

00:00:20.400 He'll have the latest for us, but first let me invite you to become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus.

00:00:25.880 That's the video version of this podcast.

00:00:27.820 And not only do you get the videos, you get the satisfaction of helping Rebel News.

00:00:31.960 As you know, we were one of the only people standing up for the truckers.

00:00:35.980 We actually crowdfunded a lot of their legal defenses, including for the Coutts 3.

00:00:40.840 All right, without any further ado, let me invite you to subscribe to the video version of Rebel News Plus.

00:00:46.620 And here is the podcast.

00:00:52.720 Tonight, what's up with the Coutts 3 and the Coutts 4?

00:00:56.220 We'll check in with our reporter, Robert Kraychuk, outside the Lethbridge Courthouse to get the latest.

00:01:01.680 It's August 2nd, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.

00:01:05.240 Shame on you, you censorious bug.

00:01:10.700 Well, I mean, very focused on what's going on, not far from my own home, but across the country,

00:01:25.120 three men called the Coutts 3 are facing, well, a sentence.

00:01:30.340 They were convicted of mischief for their role in the Coutts border blockade.

00:01:38.320 That was in February of 2022.

00:01:41.620 As you know, the main protest was in Ottawa, the massive convoy, but they were echo convoys around the country.

00:01:51.480 The one of the Coutts border blockade was particularly effective because it was a choke point,

00:01:56.180 and it was very far away from large population centers, so there was no large local police force on the scene.

00:02:04.320 Not only were there a lot of truckers who were blocking road in Coutts, but farmers got into the action, too.

00:02:10.780 It turned into quite a showdown, but Trudeau used a judo move.

00:02:15.140 He tried to claim that what was happening in Coutts was such a crisis that it required the country to put under a form of martial law,

00:02:22.240 under the Emergencies Act.

00:02:24.880 That is why the Coutts 3 were charged.

00:02:28.060 And there's another trial of the Coutts 4.

00:02:30.840 They were charged with much more serious offenses than just mischief.

00:02:34.700 They were charged with conspiracy to commit murder of a police officer.

00:02:38.700 Now, two of those four, as you know, took very minor plea deals, but two more of them are still on trial.

00:02:44.600 The man who has been covering all of these matters for us is our friend Robert Krejcik,

00:02:50.000 and he joins us now to talk to us about what's happening in Lethbridge, the city whose courthouse he stands in front of now.

00:02:58.160 Robert, great to see you again.

00:03:01.140 Great to see you.

00:03:02.920 Well, thank you very much.

00:03:04.440 You have been out there for weeks now, I dare say even months, because there's two loosely connected trials.

00:03:12.900 One of them has already been found that the three men have been convicted by a jury,

00:03:19.760 which I think packs more punch than if it was a judge alone.

00:03:23.800 That's in the minor, more minor cases of mischief.

00:03:26.680 So all that's coming up is the sentencing.

00:03:28.980 But the other case, the much more serious case, those two men have been in prison,

00:03:34.520 well, for about two and a half years now.

00:03:36.560 Isn't that right?

00:03:37.100 Yeah, they've been in remand.

00:03:43.160 They've been in police custody since February 14th of 2022 when they were arrested.

00:03:49.660 Well, give me an update on both of these cases, because similar background facts,

00:03:56.320 but of course the charges couldn't be more different.

00:03:58.660 Why don't you start off by telling us the latest in the Cooch 3,

00:04:01.940 those were the more minor mischief charges, the jury convicted,

00:04:06.580 and now it's up to the judge to give the sentence.

00:04:08.300 So let's start there, and then we'll move to the more serious case.

00:04:10.940 What's up with the Cooch 3, Marco Van Hugo Boss, George Jansen, and Alex Van Herk?

00:04:20.780 So there's a sentencing hearing scheduled for late August,

00:04:24.420 and then a final one expected to be in late September, I think 25th, 26th, 27th.

00:04:28.940 But more importantly, Marco Van Hugo Boss himself did not participate in this interview

00:04:35.420 with the probation officer to complete what's called a pre-sentencing report, this PSR.

00:04:41.860 Now, I've come to understand that these PSRs are created post-conviction

00:04:45.520 in order to create a document that judges can use as guides or as just information

00:04:54.400 upon which to determine their sentences.

00:04:57.320 And I spoke with Marco Van Hugo Boss about this and asked him why he did not comply

00:05:02.000 or why he did not participate in this interview.

00:05:04.660 He told me that he had previously spoken with Alex Van Herk about Van Herk's interview

00:05:10.220 with his separate probation officer.

00:05:12.860 And the nature of the questions, according to Marco Van Hugo Boss,

00:05:17.200 were too invasive, too private.

00:05:20.140 Questions about religious perspective, questions about political and philosophical orientations,

00:05:28.280 questions about field staff.

00:05:30.320 And this is the state's business to not engaging in it.

00:05:36.020 He further told me that he has expectations that he will face more severe consequences.

00:05:41.440 That's his word from the judge, given that his lack of compliance may be interpreted as

00:05:45.580 intransigence or recalcitrance or obstinance.

00:05:49.320 But we'll see how that plays out in terms of his anticipation of suffering worse consequences

00:05:54.040 by angering the judge by refusing to do the interview to create this PSR.

00:05:58.800 Yeah, I mean, listen, Rebel News, I think, has been more closely affiliated with all these

00:06:05.380 truckers than anyone else.

00:06:07.160 We were reporting on the scene.

00:06:09.020 We were embedded in that blockade two and a half years ago.

00:06:13.320 We crowdfunded for the men, not just for the Cooch 3, but I think we had 55 other people

00:06:21.720 who had some sort of ticket or minor charge emanating from it.

00:06:25.680 We chose not to defend the Cooch 4 because of the accusations of serious violence, conspiracy

00:06:33.560 to commit murder, although we later set up a special crowdfund for one of the men.

00:06:38.260 I guess what I'm saying is that Rebel News and our friends at the Democracy Fund have spent

00:06:43.660 an enormous amount of time defending these men, promoting these men, and crowdfunding the

00:06:48.520 legal defense of them.

00:06:50.060 So we're obviously very sympathetic advocates for them.

00:06:52.820 But I have to tell you, nonetheless, the idea of not filling out a pre-sentence report

00:06:58.520 sounds very counterproductive to me.

00:07:01.380 If the idea is to dispute the conviction, then the thing to do is to appeal it.

00:07:08.420 If the jury got it wrong, if the judge got it wrong, then appeal it.

00:07:12.440 If the judge gets the sentence wrong, then appeal it.

00:07:16.640 But to accept the jury's conviction, which these men have done, and then to not participate

00:07:24.660 in a pre-sentence report, which I've got to think could only help the men, I find that

00:07:32.320 worrying.

00:07:34.220 And if there was a particular question that someone didn't want to answer, don't answer it.

00:07:40.480 I'm nervous when you tell me that, because I think, although I don't know the judge in

00:07:46.280 question, I know a little bit about them, I've got to think that this looks like intransigence

00:07:51.900 and defiance.

00:07:53.200 And that actually is a factor in sentence.

00:07:56.520 And we all know that.

00:07:57.360 We know if someone is remorseful or repentant, things go easier on them, in a sense.

00:08:05.300 So you can understand why, if someone is defiant until the end, well, the place for defiance

00:08:10.000 is when you're fighting the trial, not afterwards.

00:08:13.320 I'm very confused by that.

00:08:15.580 And I hate to say it, but I think it could wind up any Marco Van Heuken boss, a jail sentence.

00:08:24.000 And if a jail sentence was already in the wings, a larger one.

00:08:27.580 I don't understand that.

00:08:29.180 And I can't imagine that his lawyer, funded by the Democracy Fund, would have advised that.

00:08:35.300 Listen, I hope he's not punished harshly, but I think this is poking the judge in the eye

00:08:40.900 with a stick.

00:08:44.260 I had a very similar conversation with him, and I echoed a lot of what you just said.

00:08:48.080 So we're actually of one mind on this.

00:08:50.380 And I sort of asked about the strategic implications of this decision to not comply in the interview

00:08:55.200 to create this PSR.

00:08:56.280 And I also offered him the idea of not answering certain questions that you find invasive,

00:09:03.400 but perhaps complying or answering others that you find innocuous or acceptable.

00:09:07.960 And if I can just speak for him or relay what he communicated with me as accurately as I can

00:09:12.680 recall, it's just that he thinks the entire process itself is invasive and wants to bring

00:09:18.200 attention to it.

00:09:19.120 Moreover, you said it a moment ago, and I said something similar to him, that this PSR ostensibly

00:09:25.940 could help him if he's able to describe himself in a way and just present a picture, an accurate

00:09:30.680 one, of course, in which you can obtain leniency from the judge, given his discretion, understanding

00:09:35.780 of your scenario, your circumstances, perhaps your mindset.

00:09:39.480 And Marco van Hubenbos' genuine perception is that this PSR will only be used to hurt him,

00:09:46.060 given that if he answers these questions honestly, in terms of his political perceptions, he does

00:09:50.580 not change his point of view that the protest itself was a justifiable exercise of civil disobedience

00:09:56.860 to oppose this entire so-called public health apparatus that they were in opposition to.

00:10:02.480 So his point of view is that the PSR would only be used to undermine him.

00:10:05.700 And he's basing that on what he understands that's already been asked of his fellow co-accused

00:10:12.320 convicts, in this case, George Jensen and Alex Van Herupen.

00:10:16.300 You know what?

00:10:17.880 I'm not going to pile on the guy because I think he's facing prison time.

00:10:22.860 If you look at the conviction of Arthur Pavlovsky for inciting mischief, now his case, that's

00:10:29.180 a Christian pastor who came down, gave an 18-minute sermon to the men to encourage them.

00:10:36.320 He was convicted of, under the criminal code of inciting mischief, and his sentence, I

00:10:41.900 believe, was for time served, which I think was something like 52 days, if I'm not mistaken.

00:10:48.800 So Arthur Pavlovsky left the court immediately and went home because, like I say, he had already

00:10:55.140 served his time, and so the punishment meted out to him, didn't require him to serve more.

00:11:01.400 But that's a precedent, a very close precedent.

00:11:05.180 It was about the Coutts blockade, about mischief, very, very similar to what these three men are

00:11:11.920 facing, at least in the name of the charge, in the gravity of the charge.

00:11:16.240 And, I mean, I suppose 60 days or 50 days in prison is not the end of the world, but I

00:11:24.580 mean, I certainly wouldn't want to do it unless I absolutely had to.

00:11:28.160 I just don't quite understand it.

00:11:30.560 My, and listen, I hope it works out, but I don't know if being defiant when you've already

00:11:36.700 accepted the conviction is, it seems like out of order.

00:11:40.680 If you don't think you did anything wrong, then appeal.

00:11:43.000 If you, if you accept the conviction, then do your best to, you know, make it easy on

00:11:50.540 your, on yourself and your family.

00:11:52.680 Listen, I'm not the guy in, in the, in the, who's waiting in the wings here.

00:11:57.980 I'm not the guy whose liberty is at stake.

00:12:00.260 So I'm just a armchair quarterback here, but I find it confusing, especially since the lawyers

00:12:07.380 that we've mustered, uh, for these three men are excellent.

00:12:11.760 And, um, I've just never heard of this being done ever.

00:12:16.720 I, the opposite.

00:12:17.940 When, when, when I, when I know people who are on occasion convicted of crimes, they want

00:12:24.160 to get letter of letters of reference.

00:12:26.180 They want people in the community.

00:12:28.720 Yeah.

00:12:28.860 They want people in their church to say, this is a God fearing man who does good deeds every

00:12:35.020 day.

00:12:35.900 Uh, yeah, you want, you want to be able to marshal your friends and family and everyone you've

00:12:41.240 ever done something good to, to put in a word with the judge, but what can you do?

00:12:46.440 It's, um, I mean, uh, let me say this.

00:12:49.740 Marco van Hugo boss is the captain of his own ship.

00:12:52.720 He's conducted himself for two and a half years as a very public advocate.

00:12:57.180 And I, I suppose there's some poetry of him finishing things up as a defiant advocate.

00:13:02.880 I just certainly hope it doesn't yield a longer conviction.

00:13:06.720 And, um, I guess we'll see.

00:13:09.580 Um, I mean, these are three severely normal guys who've never done a criminal thing in

00:13:13.480 their life and in their hearts, they don't believe they did anything criminal.

00:13:17.180 I get it.

00:13:17.600 I, I don't believe they did anything criminal either.

00:13:20.180 That's why we were such passionate advocates for them and crowdfunded the lawyers.

00:13:24.460 Um, he's listen, that's Alberta for you, especially Southern Alberta, stuff style guys,

00:13:30.400 mavericks, freedom loving guys, guys who are defiant and skeptical of authority.

00:13:36.340 So perhaps it's a poetic ending.

00:13:38.440 I just hope it doesn't put them in jail too long.

00:13:41.120 That's all.

00:13:43.300 You mentioned letters of recommendation.

00:13:44.980 While I don't know that that's a part of the PSR process, that's something that of course

00:13:49.180 I imagine is still available to him.

00:13:51.220 So Marko Van Hugenbos can get letters of recommendation from people who have esteem in his community or

00:13:56.180 people who have esteem in other ways to speak to his character.

00:13:59.320 Perhaps that can still be submitted because that is not in violation of what he's describing

00:14:04.280 as his principled opposition to invasive questions that he views as none of the state's business

00:14:09.520 to volunteer information about positive feedback or descriptions of this character from people

00:14:15.780 that he's come to know over time.

00:14:17.100 That is a bit separate.

00:14:18.280 So maybe he can still complete that and submit that sort of thing in an attempt to ameliorate

00:14:23.160 or lessen severity of sentence.

00:14:26.180 Well, listen, I'm not going to play homemade lawyer.

00:14:28.940 I'm just going to watch.

00:14:32.160 Democracy Fund is going to crowdfund the lawyers, although it sounds like his lawyers being sidelined

00:14:36.580 a bit here.

00:14:37.500 And Rebel News is going to support your continued journalism.

00:14:40.520 Let's put aside the Coots three for a bit.

00:14:43.700 Those are the three guys we've just been talking about who I think if I had to make a prediction

00:14:48.100 and I hate to do it, I think they're going to get 30 days in jail, perhaps more, based

00:14:53.140 on what Arthur Pavlovsky got.

00:14:55.520 And I hate to say it in the case of Marko Van Hugenbos, because the judges will see what

00:15:00.960 he's doing as an act of defiance.

00:15:03.000 I hate to say it.

00:15:03.740 I think he's going to get more.

00:15:05.320 But two men who have been in prison for two and a half years are Chris Carbert and Tony

00:15:15.000 Olenek, who were two of the four so-called Coots four.

00:15:19.560 These were the guys who I think Justin Trudeau trumped up as the reason to bring in the Emergencies

00:15:25.600 Act.

00:15:25.860 These are the guys who they said, oh, my God, they've got guns.

00:15:28.620 Oh, my God, they have a conspiracy to kill.

00:15:30.860 These are the folks they sent the undercover cops to listen to.

00:15:34.160 These are the folks they wiretapped.

00:15:35.920 These are the folks that got search warrants for.

00:15:38.220 And they certainly presented this as the shocking reason why they needed martial law.

00:15:43.160 In fact, after the police had their big ta-da, look at these arrests moment, the rest of

00:15:48.760 the men in Coots packed it in.

00:15:50.200 They said, this isn't what we're signed up for.

00:15:52.640 We want to shut it down.

00:15:53.880 We've made our point.

00:15:54.960 So actually, the Coots four arrests and the shock and awe press conference that the RCMP

00:16:01.120 had, it actually ended the peaceful protest in Coots because no one wanted to be associated

00:16:08.060 with.

00:16:08.280 But it turns out, it doesn't sound like the government has the case they claimed they did

00:16:13.160 in that press conference.

00:16:14.580 Like I said, they cut a sweetheart, and I'm not going to say sweetheart, they cut a very

00:16:18.620 minor plea bargain with two of the men.

00:16:21.640 Now, that was after they were in prison for a while, so it was still atrocious.

00:16:25.160 But, you know, mishandling a firearm or like just something that is so minor that if it weren't

00:16:31.580 associated with this matter, there would be no custodial sentence at all.

00:16:35.440 It would be a slap on the wrist and, oh, you can't use firearms for two years or something.

00:16:41.460 Like it would be so minor an offense.

00:16:45.280 I think that was a clear sign that the Crown had no case.

00:16:47.700 But they're going after these last two guys.

00:16:49.460 They're going to the wall.

00:16:50.980 I actually think they're in jeopardy for 10 years in prison, if my recall of this criminal

00:16:55.300 code section is.

00:16:56.600 Tell me how this case is going, because it's wrapping up too, isn't it?

00:17:00.340 The jury is about, or has the jury been instructed on this matter already?

00:17:04.280 Yeah.

00:17:05.440 Yeah, the jury received its charge, its instructions from the judge on Wednesday.

00:17:09.480 They began deliberating shortly after.

00:17:11.600 That was a very long day.

00:17:12.780 It ran until about 6 o'clock in the evening, our time, here at Mountain Time.

00:17:16.700 The jury had supper and then deliberated for about an hour and a half.

00:17:19.460 So here we are.

00:17:20.360 It's midday Friday.

00:17:22.440 The jury is still deliberating.

00:17:24.260 So the verdicts for these charges against the two defendants can be issued at any time.

00:17:28.200 So I'm sort of on journalistic call right now, let's say, awaiting these decisions to be

00:17:33.440 made.

00:17:34.640 And as far as how it's going, well, I mean, I'm trying to think of how to go about this.

00:17:40.780 From what I've observed, and I've been there every single day of the trial, I missed some

00:17:44.380 of the pretrial because I wasn't able to get here on time with some work scheduling conflicts.

00:17:48.780 Essentially, all of the evidence presented by the Crown in this trial is of a circumstantial

00:17:55.220 nature.

00:17:55.760 It's not direct evidence.

00:17:57.800 The Crown is inviting jurors to make inferences of guilt based on ownership of firearms, based

00:18:05.820 on political statements and predictions of the future of the state of Canada.

00:18:10.860 And of, let's say, in an associated way, colorful language, to put it charitably, coming from

00:18:19.000 primarily Anthony Olenek that was captured both in digital intercepts of phone calls and

00:18:26.420 also text messages and also statements that Olenek made while being interviewed by the

00:18:30.460 RCMP shortly after his arrest.

00:18:33.160 So why am I telling you this?

00:18:34.480 Why do I think this is important?

00:18:35.480 Why do I think Canadians should care about it? 0.64

00:18:37.060 Because if convictions are secured, if the defendants are found guilty, either of them

00:18:42.880 or both of them, of this conspiracy to commit murder charge, it's laying the sort of informal

00:18:47.560 or de facto precedent that ownership of firearms constitutes evidence of some sort of intent

00:18:53.720 towards a crime.

00:18:54.600 It further sets a precedent, informal, de facto, or otherwise, that being concerned about a collapsing

00:19:01.120 Canada economically, socially, being concerned about the ushering in of a totalitarian

00:19:07.060 state in this country, is somehow indicative of criminal conspiratorial intent.

00:19:13.940 And given that a lot of people in the Rebel News audience, myself included, I share some

00:19:17.620 of these concerns.

00:19:18.380 I spent a lot of time when I was younger reading about the Soviet Union, where my family came

00:19:22.620 from, studying Nazi Germany, given that I went to private Jewish school for nine years.

00:19:27.560 These are things of interest to me.

00:19:28.820 And when I draw parallels, as I see them, between contemporary events or social and political

00:19:35.620 developments in the contemporary West and what we've seen historically, I don't want

00:19:39.460 to be viewed as some nutcase who has some sort of criminal intent towards law enforcement

00:19:44.080 or the broader government.

00:19:45.300 And that's why I think this trial is very, very important to Canadians broadly, particularly

00:19:49.020 the Rebel News audience, who I think are more sensitive or astute towards these sorts of

00:19:53.280 assessments.

00:19:54.280 Yeah.

00:19:55.280 You know, I have visited Chris Carbert, one of the two remaining accused in prison, and

00:20:04.700 it's been extremely hard on him.

00:20:07.500 And like you say, it's not in a gentle holding cell.

00:20:11.900 It is in a hard line detention facility.

00:20:15.840 He told me that he just wanted to see some grass, green grass.

00:20:19.540 You know, he'd been in a terrible facility for two and a half years.

00:20:25.460 And I compare that to so many cases, including some actual terrorism cases where the accused

00:20:32.280 are let out on bail.

00:20:33.580 It's just an astonishing political double standard, at least it appears to be that way.

00:20:38.680 That said, I reviewed some of the material that was in police information to obtain, that

00:20:52.040 is a legal application to a judge to get a search warrant.

00:20:56.260 And some of the comments that Tony Olenek boasted about in some sort of political braggadocio,

00:21:07.860 tough talk, to pretty girls who were undercover officers for the cops. 1.00

00:21:13.940 You know, I tell you, there's a saying, loose lips sink ships.

00:21:16.780 And I think there is something about you have 50 or 100 guys, and by guys, I mean men, hold

00:21:24.780 up in a saloon in their trucks for a couple of weeks.

00:21:28.840 Not a lot of women around. 1.00

00:21:31.380 And they're revved up politically.

00:21:35.100 They're the center of a political storm and a journalistic storm.

00:21:39.120 They're feeling like heroes, and in a way, they are.

00:21:41.960 And then a couple of gals say, tell us more. 0.98

00:21:44.680 Tell us more.

00:21:45.400 You're so brave.

00:21:46.780 And I'm not saying they entrapped them, but they sort of encouraged some of these guys

00:21:53.220 to embellish and to, you know how young men are.

00:21:57.780 They tell a story, and maybe they embroider it a little bit.

00:22:00.380 They're, I'm a little bit tougher than I really am.

00:22:02.160 I'm a little bit braver than I really am.

00:22:04.060 I mean, you and I are storytellers.

00:22:05.560 I think we have maybe a drop of that in us as well.

00:22:08.540 To be a journalist, you have to love to tell a good story.

00:22:11.800 Trouble is, when you're telling stories about how tough you are and how brave you are and what

00:22:15.980 will happen if the cops come in, well, if you're telling that to a cop, and if Justin Trudeau has

00:22:22.140 said to the cops, I want evidence of an insurrection, I want to replicate that U.S. 1.00

00:22:28.580 January 6th insurrection narrative.

00:22:31.400 I want to be the good guy.

00:22:32.880 I want these evil Albertans with guns to be the right-wing bad guys.

00:22:37.160 I want to, and so if you're telling these cops, if the order comes down from on high,

00:22:42.440 find me evidence of an insurrection.

00:22:45.320 And then you've got some regular Joe who's feeling, maybe he's got a few beers in him.

00:22:50.860 Maybe he thinks, well, I might get with these girls.

00:22:52.900 I haven't seen girls in a while, but I'm hanging out with all these fellas. 1.00

00:22:55.660 Maybe they're going to embellish.

00:22:57.060 But I have seen some of the statements he allegedly made.

00:23:00.820 And I'm not saying they're a crime, but boy, there were stupid things to say.

00:23:05.120 They were not a cover cop.

00:23:06.000 I'm worried about that.

00:23:06.960 I'm less worried about Chris Carbert, who so obviously was in the wrong place at the

00:23:12.320 wrong time.

00:23:13.320 Now, I have not been there day after day in court.

00:23:16.840 What I've just said to you is based solely on watching some of your reports and when I

00:23:22.400 read this information to obtain police document a few months ago, you've been there in court.

00:23:27.700 You've heard what the jury has heard.

00:23:30.660 Would you say that Tony Olenek has come across as just a young man who's puffing out his

00:23:36.680 chest and because he's talking to some girls or does he come, has he come across to the

00:23:41.760 jury as perhaps an actual threat of violence?

00:23:45.720 Because that's what he's being charged with.

00:23:47.180 He hasn't been charged with talking talk.

00:23:49.160 He hasn't been charged with being a big shot.

00:23:51.640 He's been charged with conspiracy to commit murder.

00:23:55.840 What do you think the jury has seen from him?

00:23:58.080 I don't think you can overstate the sexual dynamic aspect of the female RCMP undercover 0.77

00:24:08.740 operators.

00:24:09.560 They use the acronym UCO that were deployed to engage in the sustainable investigation

00:24:16.240 of criminality at the Coutts protest in Blockade.

00:24:19.340 There is no way that does not have an impact.

00:24:22.220 I won't even get into reading the minds of the RCMP architects of this investigation.

00:24:28.780 I have my suspicions over what they were or were not aware of with respect to what happens

00:24:33.900 as you just described it with respect to braggadocious young men.

00:24:38.040 Perhaps they have some alcohol in them.

00:24:40.180 Storytellers, men perform, women select.

00:24:42.760 We're all aware of that.

00:24:43.620 But let's just pretend that the RCMP managers are oblivious to that.

00:24:48.260 They're totally conditioned into men and women are exactly the same and all that. 0.92

00:24:51.540 But the dynamic is still real and still exists there.

00:24:55.420 So insofar as jurors are aware that men and women are different and that men and women

00:25:00.360 interact between themselves differently than they do just between same-sex interactions,

00:25:05.340 that cannot be overstated.

00:25:08.400 So Marilyn Burns, counsel for Anthony Olenek, had made statements about this.

00:25:14.760 She stated in her closing arguments that there was an aspect of Tony Olenek seeking to impress

00:25:23.280 girls that he did not know were RCMP officers that he wanted to impress, that he had a crush on.

00:25:30.340 There was some other evidence that we had seen with respect to text messages that were indicative

00:25:34.320 that Chris Carver himself had this awareness or at least suspicion that Tony Olenek was fancying

00:25:40.300 or attracted to one of the girls that was a female RCMP UCO sent to investigate the demonstration.

00:25:48.080 And you also mentioned the alcohol component.

00:25:50.840 There was evidence towards that where even though circumstantial, Chris Carver had mentioned

00:25:55.600 that Tony Olenek had a flask with him and presumably had hard liquor in there.

00:25:59.700 So combine all that together, the things that you mentioned, the absence of females, the

00:26:04.980 scarcity of them, I should say, the hyper-masculine nature, if I can use that term, given that

00:26:09.540 the vast majority of protesters were men, the isolation aspect of it, the intensity of it,

00:26:14.860 given that this is a protest with a large police force, this tension aspect.

00:26:19.260 Now, one more thing that's super important is that the RCMP undercover operators did not have

00:26:26.400 any digital recording devices included in their investigations.

00:26:31.320 That's so weird to me that it's all just, I remember this, and I remember, like, I've just never heard

00:26:37.620 reporters have devices.

00:26:39.340 Everyone has a cell phone.

00:26:40.840 You don't even have, these days, the idea of, is he wired?

00:26:43.660 Doesn't he make any sense?

00:26:44.900 We all carry with us our cell phones.

00:26:46.920 We're all, quote, wired.

00:26:48.320 You could push a button and record it.

00:26:49.960 That makes me extremely skeptical that nothing was recorded.

00:26:53.520 Go ahead.

00:26:53.780 I interrupted you.

00:26:54.420 I totally agree with you.

00:26:56.480 It's so weird.

00:26:58.340 And we also know that it is weird, or at least not necessarily the standard operating procedure

00:27:05.020 of undercover investigations by the testimony that we heard from the UCOs.

00:27:09.660 So when the UCOs were being questioned by Stephen Johnston, the lead prosecutor, when they

00:27:15.240 were invited to testify, he asked them, I'm sure Stephen Johnston was anticipating people

00:27:19.840 like yourself being, why didn't they record this with some mic or some camera?

00:27:24.720 He said, do you folks use surreptitious recording devices as part and parcel of your

00:27:31.540 investigatory techniques?

00:27:32.760 And they said, yes, not always.

00:27:34.860 So it's not alien for them to use these things.

00:27:37.400 One more secondary aspect of this is that they also conceded that they did not use any recording

00:27:43.080 devices, either video and or audio, at the location of interest.

00:27:48.020 They didn't place a sort of secret camera inside the smuggler saloon where most of this

00:27:54.400 investigation was taking place.

00:27:56.060 So that's very weird.

00:27:57.500 And of course, that's deliberate, because since we know that they use these sorts of

00:28:01.200 recording devices, at least in some of their investigations, a decision was made not to

00:28:05.740 use it.

00:28:06.380 Now, again, we don't need to read minds.

00:28:08.300 Let's just look at objectively what's true.

00:28:09.900 What's objectively true when you don't record these sorts of interactions is that the jurors

00:28:14.820 do not get a complete picture.

00:28:16.740 This was 2022.

00:28:17.900 This was not 100 years ago.

00:28:19.280 I think jurors may come to this point where they expect these things to be standard.

00:28:22.680 The standards of evidence change as technology changes across time.

00:28:26.480 So I'm sure they also think it's weird.

00:28:28.400 And all that you get, again, objectively true, is testimony from a female UCO telling you what 0.83

00:28:34.180 she recalls and what she reported.

00:28:35.880 One more interesting thing on this, in terms of the incompletion of information provided

00:28:41.340 to jurors, given the lack of use of these reporting devices, when being cross-examined

00:28:46.120 by Catherine Bayag, one of these female UCOs acknowledged that the vast majority of the

00:28:51.200 notes that she composes contemporaneously shortly after these interactions where she documents

00:28:55.280 what she thinks was noteworthy, what she thinks she needs to recall for a potential future

00:28:58.920 trial, is that it's almost entirely of the target.

00:29:03.660 What was it that Tony Olenek did or said, or that I think he said or did?

00:29:07.200 What was it that Chris Carbert said or did?

00:29:08.940 Not what she did.

00:29:10.340 So to hear comments earlier about what was it that the female UCOs may have been doing 0.95

00:29:15.720 or not doing or saying or not saying, to elicit these sorts of comments, we don't know,

00:29:20.880 because not only do we not have any audio or video of it, but the female UCOs acknowledge 0.98

00:29:25.600 themselves that they do very little note-taking in terms of what they were called themselves

00:29:30.260 doing in terms of their ostensible investigation.

00:29:33.720 Let me ask you this question.

00:29:35.020 I was there in the courthouse when the jury was selected for the Coutts Three, and I saw

00:29:40.820 these men and women, one at a time, be screened by the lawyers and the judge.

00:29:46.960 And I came away thinking, they've got a pretty fair panel.

00:29:50.360 It looked pretty representative of Southern Alberta.

00:29:52.680 In fact, I looked at those jurors and I thought, boy, that's a pretty good jury if I'm for

00:29:58.280 the defense.

00:30:00.320 And I think that the three defendants felt that way, too, which is why I think they were

00:30:04.140 slightly stunned with the conviction.

00:30:07.200 But also, at least for a couple of them, they accepted the judgment of their peers because

00:30:11.420 they looked at these people and said, yeah, that's my community.

00:30:14.860 What's the jury like for the Coutts Four, the remaining two in the Coutts Four?

00:30:18.680 Is it the same way?

00:30:19.740 Is it the same?

00:30:20.880 Does it feel like a cross-section of the community?

00:30:23.660 How do you feel about them?

00:30:25.180 Does anyone stand out as...

00:30:27.540 I mean, it's tough to just look at people and know, but you can tell a little bit by

00:30:31.940 how people dress, how they style themselves, if they have green hair maybe or something.

00:30:38.840 How do they look?

00:30:41.160 Okay, you're right.

00:30:42.140 I guess I'm just so hesitant to make these sorts of analyses.

00:30:44.640 I don't want to come across in a weird way at all.

00:30:46.280 Well, it's somewhat of a cross-section.

00:30:50.500 It does look like the type of person that I've come to see in Lethbridge during my time

00:30:56.200 here.

00:30:57.380 There is a lady there that seems a bit unusual. 0.91

00:31:02.500 She seems...

00:31:03.280 I don't know if I shouldn't say this.

00:31:05.300 Seems androgynous, perhaps.

00:31:06.540 But I love your term severely normal.

00:31:11.140 And let's say this jury, in my very limited understanding or perception, I don't consider

00:31:16.620 myself very good at this sort of analysis.

00:31:18.240 I consider them moderately normal.

00:31:21.500 Moderately normal.

00:31:22.600 Well, let me ask you one last question.

00:31:24.100 It'd be very generous in your time.

00:31:25.160 It's great to catch up with you on this important subject.

00:31:27.280 You say the jury was instructed, or directed, rather, by the judge.

00:31:32.540 So the judge sort of...

00:31:34.260 You know, it's a process where the judge sort of sums up the case and reminds the jury what

00:31:39.680 their job is and how to do the job.

00:31:43.680 And it's a very sensitive thing because the jurors are looking for guidance because they've

00:31:49.900 never done this before.

00:31:51.180 And there's very serious matters.

00:31:52.940 So anyway, you say that was on Wednesday, if I understand.

00:31:55.880 And then everyone went home that night.

00:31:57.860 So they've had a full day.

00:31:59.200 And you and I are talking.

00:32:01.200 It's in the early afternoon out there in Lethbridge.

00:32:04.000 So they've had a day and a half.

00:32:05.220 That's not a short period of time.

00:32:09.460 You know, a very quick jury is if they all just sort of had come to their conclusion a

00:32:16.040 long time, guilty or not guilty.

00:32:18.740 Day and a half now, maybe two days.

00:32:21.340 They might take the weekend.

00:32:22.540 We don't know.

00:32:23.080 I mean, for all I know, as soon as we hang up our interview, they're going to have the

00:32:26.640 result.

00:32:28.220 But what do you make of that?

00:32:29.280 Is that a good sign or a bad sign that the jury is in their second full day of deliberation?

00:32:36.820 Well, forgive me to punting towards you, given I think that you have a much deeper experience

00:32:40.600 observing these things.

00:32:41.620 But, you know, my humble opinion is that it is a good sign, given that there was no immediate

00:32:46.760 determination, which is typically, from what I understand, people that I've spoken to who

00:32:51.460 spend a lot of time around trials, indicative of certainty of guilt.

00:32:55.180 Now, there's more to this that I can give you that, again, it's sort of circumstantial

00:32:59.180 evidence of perhaps a jury that's unconvinced of the theory of the case as provided by the

00:33:04.820 prosecution.

00:33:06.820 Anthony Olenek, unlike Chris Carper, is being accused of unlawful possession of an explosive

00:33:11.300 device.

00:33:11.740 It's one of the charges he's facing.

00:33:13.560 And one of the questions that the jury asked the judge after they had already been retired

00:33:18.660 for deliberations is whether or not it is relevant to determination of the charge or issuing

00:33:23.720 of a verdict on that charge if the defendant forgot his possession of this explosive device.

00:33:31.740 In this case, long story short, Anthony Olenek, years ago, used to work in this sandstone

00:33:35.880 business, and his former business partner testified in this trial that Anthony Olenek used these

00:33:43.160 sorts of tools, these so-called pipe bombs, to dislodge stone.

00:33:47.960 So Anthony Olenek has on the record testimony that indicates that professionally he had a

00:33:51.980 purpose for these things.

00:33:53.760 And if the jury is asking that question, it suggests that they believe that testimony of

00:33:59.500 a witness that was invited by Anthony Olenek's lawyer and that perhaps it sort of slipped his

00:34:04.880 mind, that's not the kind of question you would expect to hear from a jury that was convinced

00:34:10.140 of at least one of the defendants' guilt.

00:34:13.000 One more thing.

00:34:13.640 This is anecdotal because obviously I'm thinking about these things all the time.

00:34:16.620 I'm here all day.

00:34:17.700 I've come to know some of the sheriffs that work here.

00:34:19.820 And sheriffs work here for a long time.

00:34:21.360 They don't just do two-year stints and go somewhere else.

00:34:23.680 They work here like 15, 20, 25 years.

00:34:27.060 I'm speaking to one guy who's been here for a while.

00:34:28.880 He's seasoned.

00:34:29.740 At least 20 years he's been working.

00:34:30.920 I asked him today, what's the longest you've ever seen in terms of deliberations for a

00:34:35.440 trial?

00:34:35.740 He said he's never seen anything go beyond a few days.

00:34:39.280 So here we are.

00:34:40.400 It's two and a bit days.

00:34:42.160 Juries do work into the weekends.

00:34:44.000 They continue deliberating if they don't decide by this evening.

00:34:47.120 And they have discretion to determine for themselves.

00:34:49.120 Let's say it's 7, 8 o'clock at night.

00:34:50.760 They're tired.

00:34:51.380 They want to relax.

00:34:52.180 They want to refresh their minds.

00:34:53.420 They can call quits.

00:34:54.420 They're tired for the evening.

00:34:55.340 Wake up in the morning.

00:34:56.100 Continue again.

00:34:56.920 If they don't decide by today, they will work into Saturday.

00:34:59.380 They will work into Sunday.

00:35:00.320 So it's just nonstop till they decide.

00:35:02.920 He's also said to me that they are motivated to conclude their jobs and they want to get

00:35:08.200 back home to their real lives, their families. 0.55

00:35:10.920 Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if they want to make the decision before the weekend.

00:35:15.380 Well, we don't know and we don't know what's in their mind.

00:35:18.140 And we're so close to the case that we don't have the perspective of 12 peers from the community.

00:35:25.040 Robert, I want to thank you for being stationed out there for so long.

00:35:30.460 I mean, I know your home is in Ottawa and you've gone out there to southern Alberta on

00:35:40.480 our behalf.

00:35:41.500 We've made a lot of friends and you've covered some important journalism.

00:35:46.600 So thanks for doing that.

00:35:47.600 And we'll hear from you when things conclude.

00:35:50.820 Folks, if you want to support us positioning Robert out in Lethbridge for these trials,

00:35:56.980 you can go to Trucker Trials.

00:36:00.920 Thanks, my friend.

00:36:01.680 Thank you.

00:36:04.160 Talk to you later.

00:36:13.140 Well, that's our show for today.

00:36:14.340 But let me leave you with an interesting, funny and sad video by my friend David Menzies.

00:36:19.700 He was at a beach in Western Ontario and they have a problem that I don't know.

00:36:25.680 I don't really want to talk about on TV, but David does.

00:36:29.680 Just check out this crazy video of life in Canada in 2024.

00:36:33.880 Good night, everybody.

00:36:34.820 And I told my kids, if we're going to go on the beach, watch out so you don't step in

00:36:40.260 any human poop.

00:36:41.380 I've heard people are using tents and they're just like doing it in the sand so no one can

00:36:44.620 see.

00:36:45.320 I think it's really gross.

00:36:46.520 They're digging holes and they're pooping and putting tents up because they don't want

00:36:49.280 to go to the washrooms.

00:36:50.740 And I'm here to fact check that because that's not a lie.

00:36:53.700 It makes me not want to swim and not want to be on the beach.

00:36:57.080 To be a responsible parent, you should be showing your kids that you can actually throw

00:37:00.800 out their diaper in the washroom, not bury it at a beach.

00:37:03.740 Something that's just common sense.

00:37:05.060 Like, why would you do that?

00:37:06.640 They dig a hole and they use it for their bathroom.

00:37:13.920 David Menzies for Rebel News.

00:37:15.440 It's here in Wasaga Beach, Ontario, the world's longest freshwater beach.

00:37:22.100 But you know something, folks, there is something a little more putrid on the beach these days.

00:37:28.440 Indeed, a local resident by the name of Natty, she recently took to social media in which she

00:37:36.080 accused newcomers, mostly from India, of defecating on the beach and then burying their excrement

00:37:44.300 in the sand.

00:37:45.740 There are Indian families that dig holes and put tents and poop. 1.00

00:37:49.280 They do it on the beach now and they do it, they did it off my backyard.

00:37:53.020 There was like three different families of maybe 25, 30 people that came for barbecues.

00:37:57.300 They were set up right on the fence of my backyard.

00:38:00.060 I seen them digging the hole and I seen them put the tent.

00:38:02.900 When they left, there was poop.

00:38:04.040 That happened three separate times.

00:38:05.400 I've had to yell at people for shitting on the borderline property line of my backyard.

00:38:11.920 And yes, it was Indian families.

00:38:13.820 So that's not false.

00:38:15.020 You can check my town's page where they say there are Indian people pooping on our beach

00:38:19.100 because there is.

00:38:19.740 They're digging holes and they're pooping and putting tents up because they don't want

00:38:22.540 to go to the washrooms.

00:38:24.020 And I'm here to fact check that because that's not a lie.

00:38:27.220 Natty's video has gone viral.

00:38:29.700 Most of the comments are, as what you would imagine, people expressing their disgust with

00:38:37.460 this situation.

00:38:38.960 Naturally, because it's 2024, some have accused Natty of being racist.

00:38:45.400 But the thing is, we have reached out to sources and they confirm that Natty is 100% correct

00:38:54.220 in her assertions.

00:38:55.980 For example, we communicated with an ex-Wasaga Beach bylaw officer and he says not only are

00:39:03.860 people defecating in the sand and then burying the evidence, but they are also burying used

00:39:11.060 diapers.

00:39:12.400 What's more, he says, when you see some of these tents, what you might think of a structure

00:39:19.580 for people to get out of the scorching sun?

00:39:22.460 Well, in some cases, those tents are nothing more than temporary outhouses.

00:39:29.340 This is where certain people are going to do their business.

00:39:33.360 Again, it's absolutely gross.

00:39:35.580 Also, as we understand from this ex-Wasaga Beach bylaw officer, when he would ticket people

00:39:42.280 who he caught defecating on the beach, he was accused of being a racist.

00:39:48.560 And sometimes he and his colleagues would be swarmed with groups of up to 20 people.

00:39:54.480 They wouldn't throw punches.

00:39:56.280 But imagine being in that situation where you're outnumbered 20 to 1 and people are calling you

00:40:02.800 every nasty name under the book simply for doing your job, simply for telling people do not defecate

00:40:10.460 on a public beach.

00:40:11.980 Also, we reached out to our source, Ted Smith.

00:40:16.660 He is originally from India.

00:40:18.800 That's not his real name.

00:40:20.220 He uses a pseudonym to protect himself.

00:40:23.200 But he says, yes, indeed, this is a fact of life on Wasaga Beach, as well as some other

00:40:28.840 beaches in Ontario.

00:40:30.520 And he attributes it to a cultural mindset, namely people who are well off in his community,

00:40:40.880 who come to the beach, have the idea that they will defecate, they will leave their used diapers

00:40:46.700 behind, they will leave their litter behind from a barbecue, because somebody lower down

00:40:53.500 on the cast totem pole, if you will, employed by the town, will come and clean up.

00:41:00.520 In fact, Ted says, in India, there really is no such thing as civic duty.

00:41:09.200 Now, please, folks, don't shoot the messenger here.

00:41:11.500 I'm just quoting somebody who is originally from India and has a real good handle on what's

00:41:19.160 going on.

00:41:20.360 Now, we have reached out to the town of Wasaga Beach.

00:41:26.240 I never heard back from anybody with the town.

00:41:29.760 But just earlier today, the mayor issued the following statement.

00:41:35.080 Quote, the town of Wasaga Beach takes all resident and visitor feedback seriously.

00:41:41.180 However, we reject the premise of complaints that lack evidence and promote misinformation.

00:41:48.220 While the town cannot speak for the Ministry of Environment or Ontario Parks, who operates,

00:41:56.020 patrols, and manages all the beach areas within Wasaga Beach Provincial Park, we can speak

00:42:03.100 to the facts.

00:42:05.200 End quote.

00:42:05.860 And some of those facts, the mayor goes on to point out, folks, is the fact that there

00:42:09.960 are several public washrooms available for people to use at Wasaga Beach, which is undeniably

00:42:17.560 true.

00:42:18.560 But it is also true that this is not so-called misinformation.

00:42:24.360 We have spoken to two people who say they have witnessed this firsthand.

00:42:29.160 We have seen the social media of Natty, who has called out this situation.

00:42:37.820 I mean, I think the mayor is just terrified about going to the third rail of race.

00:42:45.920 As we've been told, it is mainly people from the Indian community that are doing this.

00:42:53.240 And I'm not trying to malign anyone.

00:42:55.660 I'm not trying to be racist.

00:42:57.140 I'm not trying to be culturally insensitive.

00:43:00.620 But we are living in a province, in a country, in the first world.

00:43:05.780 And this cannot and should not be tolerated.

00:43:10.280 So for the mayor to say that this is hearsay and isn't supported by the facts, it's not true.

00:43:15.660 In fact, he reminds me of the movie Jaws when the mayor was dismissing the shark attacks

00:43:22.220 because, you know, that would have an adverse effect on tourism.

00:43:26.040 No, that's not flying with me, Mr. Mayor.

00:43:29.300 I pulled a tooth the size of a shot glass out of the rectal of a boat out there, and it was the tooth of a great white.

00:43:34.960 It was Ben Gardner's boat.

00:43:35.900 It was all chewed up.

00:43:36.800 I helped tow it in.

00:43:37.580 You should have seen him.

00:43:38.620 Where is that tooth?

00:43:40.260 In any event, folks, my cameraman, Lincoln Jay, and I, we're going to walk around the beach.

00:43:45.020 We're going to see if any of the beachgoers have anything to say about this very disturbing situation.

00:43:52.320 And hopefully, we'll even bump into a member of Bylaw On Patrol and see what they have to say about the excrement issue. 0.85

00:44:03.140 Let's go.

00:44:04.420 I heard about that, yeah.

00:44:05.420 People are shitting in the beach.

00:44:07.000 Yeah.

00:44:07.460 And then they're burying it.

00:44:08.540 Like, you know, nothing happened.

00:44:09.540 Why would people do that?

00:44:10.640 I mean, sir, we're right next to a washroom here.

00:44:13.540 It's not as though people are being denied facilities.

00:44:16.460 I just feel like some people, you know, they don't know life yet, so they just shitting the beach and bury it like an animal, you know?

00:44:23.440 And they are defecating on the beach.

00:44:25.860 Oh, I've heard about that.

00:44:26.260 Yeah, I have heard about that.

00:44:27.640 What do you make of that, man?

00:44:29.100 I think it's disgusting, honestly.

00:44:30.960 I think it's really gross.

00:44:32.260 People could step on it.

00:44:33.220 I know for a fact, and it's not just Beach One here.

00:44:35.700 I used to have property on Beach, Allenwood Beach, and we had that problem there.

00:44:40.160 And, of course, we could find it because kids would be playing in the sand, making a sandcastle or whatever,

00:44:44.320 and there would be poop in the sand.

00:44:48.280 And it's a thing, it's, without sounding like a racist or anything like that, it has nothing to do with being racist.

00:44:54.700 It's just, in different countries, people have different traditions and different things.

00:44:58.040 Yeah, it's very bad because some people feel very sad about it, you know?

00:45:00.860 It's not a good thing, yeah.

00:45:02.240 I think it's horrible.

00:45:03.320 I think it's terrible.

00:45:04.480 They should not do that to the beach.

00:45:06.120 It's like a great place.

00:45:07.300 It's not very cool because it's a beach, a public place.

00:45:12.020 And, yeah, I think we should respect that and the fact that there's other people around and things like that.

00:45:19.140 Pure disrespect of our beaches, of Canada, of just everything.

00:45:24.300 There are public washrooms.

00:45:25.900 There's no charge to use the washroom.

00:45:28.220 Why would people do this?

00:45:29.920 I don't know.

00:45:30.440 It's gross, I think.

00:45:31.560 Yeah.

00:45:32.220 There's washrooms right there and there's everywhere, so I don't know why they do that.

00:45:37.220 It's crazy why people do this.

00:45:38.820 People coming to Wasaga Beach, and if you can imagine, defecating on the beach and burying it, burying dirty diapers.

00:45:46.880 Rude.

00:45:47.360 What do you make of that, sir?

00:45:48.560 I hadn't heard anything about that, but I'd prefer it not to happen.

00:45:51.880 Yeah.

00:45:52.560 The question is, why is it happening?

00:45:54.800 I can see in walking distance, there's plenty of public washrooms.

00:45:58.340 You can see that one just across the street.

00:46:00.560 Why would somebody do that?

00:46:02.460 Uh, I couldn't tell you.

00:46:04.140 It doesn't seem necessary.

00:46:05.440 We've heard about it before we came here, and we were doubting whether we should come here or not.

00:46:09.300 Oh, is that right, eh?

00:46:10.320 Yeah, that's right.

00:46:10.960 Okay.

00:46:12.160 So far, it's been okay.

00:46:13.820 Yes.

00:46:14.180 Uh, we haven't seen any problems.

00:46:17.480 Okay.

00:46:18.400 But we were doubting ourselves before we came here, and we thought we would take a chance and see how it is.

00:46:23.400 But isn't that sad?

00:46:24.700 I mean, the idea of going to the beach is to relax, to enjoy this beautiful water, this beautiful sand,

00:46:30.320 and the idea that, you know, there might be a horrible surprise package lurking beneath the sand,

00:46:36.660 that kind of ruins the day almost, doesn't it?

00:46:39.480 It absolutely does.

00:46:40.280 It's not just on Wasaga Beach.

00:46:42.480 It's beaches from all over, from the Muskokas, all over Lake Huron, everywhere.

00:46:49.260 They're defecating everywhere, and it's totally disgusting.

00:46:52.640 Why would people do this?

00:46:55.160 You got me.

00:46:56.080 I can't think of a real good reason.

00:46:57.780 Yeah.

00:46:57.960 Um, it's kind of gross and disgusting, if you ask me.

00:47:00.820 And folks, I think it's important to point out that it's not as though beachgoers are being denied an opportunity to use a bathroom.

00:47:10.780 Right here on the main drag, there are washroom facilities. 0.80

00:47:14.820 It's literally just meters away from the main beach.

00:47:18.180 So, in addition to this whole idea of defecating on the beach being disgusting, is this not an example of outrageous laziness that people don't want to simply walk over to where the washrooms are?

00:47:34.100 It's not as though people are being denied the opportunity to go to the bathroom.

00:47:38.960 So, can you explain why people would be not only so disgusting, but so lazy?

00:47:44.600 I don't know.

00:47:45.120 I honestly don't know.

00:47:46.020 Nowadays, everyone's lazy.

00:47:47.480 I've seen it with my own eyes.

00:47:49.220 Okay, so you can tell me different.

00:47:51.980 And Brian Smith is a great mayor.

00:47:53.460 Our council is a great council.

00:47:54.600 They're doing a great job here.

00:47:55.420 But I think he's just trying to appeal and appease.

00:47:59.340 Right?

00:47:59.620 He probably hasn't witnessed it himself, personally.

00:48:02.120 This is the world's longest freshwater beach.

00:48:05.300 It's a gem.

00:48:06.200 And then to desecrate it with excrement and dirty diapers, this strikes me as being beyond gross.

00:48:14.220 I mean, I guess some people aren't raised, right?

00:48:17.040 That's the best way I can explain it.

00:48:18.940 I mean, I haven't seen no s*** yet, but if I see s***, I'm definitely going to fight someone. 1.00

00:48:24.160 But why would somebody go to the bathroom on the beach when you can cross the street?

00:48:28.540 Yes, guys, you know, like, I will not recommend anybody go in the sea, so he will do washroom.

00:48:33.360 It's not a good thing.

00:48:34.300 Yes, I agree.

00:48:34.960 Yes, yes.

00:48:35.600 What do you think about that, ma'am?

00:48:36.820 If you ever had to go to the bathroom, you're not going to do it on the beach, are you?

00:48:40.580 Personally, I wouldn't use the bathroom on the beach because that's just really disgusting.

00:48:45.320 And I don't think anyone, I wouldn't want anyone seeing me use the washroom on the beach.

00:48:49.320 And you seem like nice ladies to me.

00:48:50.740 If you have to go to the bathroom, you're not going to do it on the beach, are you?

00:48:53.520 No.

00:48:54.160 Is there a cultural disconnect?

00:48:56.760 Because what's being reported, and we've talked to ex-bylaw officers, it's mainly people from India that are doing this.

00:49:04.280 So maybe this is a cultural norm back home.

00:49:07.500 Maybe there's no public bathrooms back home. 0.71

00:49:09.800 But that's not the case here.

00:49:11.820 No, there's public bathrooms. 0.82

00:49:12.580 There's public bathrooms everywhere here.

00:49:14.160 But also, it's like, if you come into Canada, you're kind of trying to embrace the Canadian culture.

00:49:18.380 Why would you bring your culture with you, you know?

00:49:20.280 Well, 100%.

00:49:21.760 And I mean, isn't it a public safety issue?

00:49:24.560 Yeah, it's definitely a public safety issue.

00:49:26.140 But if we were to go to India and bring our culture over there, I think we'd kind of get frowned upon for doing that.

00:49:30.300 So if they come here and do the same thing, you know, it's kind of a thing of mutual respect, right?

00:49:34.740 Is it time to ban fully enclosed tents on the beach?

00:49:40.640 In theory, yes.

00:49:42.020 But in practice, it's hard because a lot of people use enclosed tents just to get cover from the sun.

00:49:48.460 Right.

00:49:48.760 But what about something like that?

00:49:50.060 You see this canopy, you can get out of the sun that way, right?

00:49:53.880 It just becomes, it's kind of grayer, right?

00:49:55.940 You might have some tents that are kind of enclosed, kind of not enclosed.

00:49:59.480 It might just become too difficult.

00:50:00.760 We're here with, you know, family, friends, our kids, our grandkids, and you've got to watch where you walk.

00:50:07.440 It was never like this.

00:50:08.760 Well, folks, as luck would have it, I was able to flag down a vehicle with Parks Ontario and spoke to a park ranger.

00:50:17.080 And contrary to what the mayor is saying here, she is aware of this issue.

00:50:23.260 And she was able to tell me what the fine threshold is if they catch somebody going to the bathroom on the beach.

00:50:30.680 Here's how my interaction went.

00:50:32.400 We're just up from Toronto.

00:50:33.800 That's my cameraman, Lincoln Jay.

00:50:35.580 We're doing a story about people who are defecating on the beach and, you know, burying it, burying dirty diapers.

00:50:43.600 It's based on a local who made a social media posting that went viral.

00:50:48.480 Do you have any information that you could share about what's happening on the beach?

00:50:53.760 No, I do not.

00:50:54.860 Okay.

00:50:55.240 Have you heard about this problem happening?

00:50:57.520 Yes, I have.

00:50:58.380 Okay, then.

00:50:59.200 How do we stop it from happening?

00:51:02.500 Unless we see it happening, we can't really do anything personally.

00:51:07.320 Okay.

00:51:07.580 Um, but, yeah, other than that, that's all we can do.

00:51:11.140 Is there a, do you know what the fine is if you catch somebody doing this?

00:51:15.100 Um, yes, we do have a fine.

00:51:16.640 Oh, and how much would that be, ma'am?

00:51:20.000 The fine is $155.

00:51:22.660 Okay.

00:51:23.160 Maybe we have to raise the fine?

00:51:25.700 Maybe.

00:51:26.380 Okay, then.

00:51:27.320 Thank you for your time, ma'am.

00:51:28.540 Would you support the idea of banning tents on the beach?

00:51:32.640 I would support that idea.

00:51:34.180 Okay.

00:51:34.520 Closed-in tents, at least.

00:51:35.700 Yeah.

00:51:36.000 Okay, then.

00:51:36.600 Yeah, if you can still see what's going on within the tent, then I think that's okay.

00:51:39.740 But, uh, once you start closing it off, it's questionable.

00:51:42.960 And it's all as simple as just banning tents.

00:51:44.920 That's all.

00:51:45.340 They ban alcohol, for crying out loud.

00:51:46.900 They ban smoking.

00:51:47.960 Even if they had, you can only have a clear, if it's clear for everybody to see in there.

00:51:54.420 That would be like a greenhouse in the sun, though.

00:51:57.080 Exactly.

00:51:57.960 But if that's the only way it's going to stop or ban them completely, have a sun umbrella

00:52:02.040 where you cannot enclose anything.

00:52:04.240 Well, folks, my cameraman, Lincoln Jay, and I have spent several hours here with Saga Beach.

00:52:09.500 Everyone we spoke to, well, they were unanimous.

00:52:12.560 That what is happening on this beach is disgusting and gross.

00:52:18.520 And, well, quite frankly, it is the height of laziness.

00:52:23.480 As you can see behind me, here are some public washrooms.

00:52:27.580 We're maybe, I don't know, 30 meters away from the beach.

00:52:30.620 Are you telling me people can't walk this distance and take care of business properly?

00:52:36.600 And please, let's park allegations of racism and cultural insensitivity.

00:52:45.140 Defecating on a beach, burying used diapers on a beach, calling that out is not being racist.

00:52:53.740 It's not being culturally insensitive.

00:52:56.100 It is taking a stance for public safety, hygiene, and sanitation.

00:53:03.540 This has to be stamped out.

00:53:05.420 Maybe the mayor of Wasaga Beach is quite literally burying his head in the sand in terms of addressing this grotesque issue.

00:53:13.800 But we have to take a stance.

00:53:16.460 We have to do everything we can to prevent the world's longest freshwater beach from being desecrated in such a grotesque way.

00:53:27.780 For Rebel News, I'm David the Menzoid Menzies. 0.60

00:53:32.040 Well, folks, I know you appreciate it when Rebel News brings you the other side of the story.

00:53:37.240 And let's face it, most of the mainstream media, they would never cover a story like this.

00:53:42.060 It's two-third rail, given the race issue. 0.77

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Rebel News Podcast - August 02, 2024

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Jurors move towards verdict in Coutts Four trial

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