Rebel News Podcast - INTERVIEW： Jay Hill of the Western regional separatist Maverick Party

00:00:00.000 Oh hi Rebels, you're listening to a free audio only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show

00:00:05.380 The Gun Show. Tonight my guest was much requested. It's Jay Hill. He's the interim leader of the

00:00:12.780 separatist federal maverick party. Now if you like listening to the show then I promise you're

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00:01:30.480 You asked, I delivered. Tonight my guest is Jay Hill of the Maverick Party. I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed

00:01:36.720 and you're watching The Gunn Show.

00:01:56.320 One of the most requested guests I've ever had in the history of this show has been Jay Hill of the

00:02:06.720 Maverick Party. I get emails, I get super chats, I get text messages. Some of you have even found my

00:02:20.720 personal email and are sending me email requests saying, Sheila you have to have Jay Hill on of the

00:02:26.560 Maverick Party. Now Jay Hill is the interim leader of the Maverick Party and he'll explain his role in

00:02:32.460 our discussion today. He also explains what he hopes to achieve as the interim leader of the Maverick Party,

00:02:43.580 what sort of the some of the Maverick goals are, what that would look like within Confederation and outside

00:02:50.140 of Confederation. I asked him some prickly questions too about the criticisms that the Maverick Party receives

00:03:00.220 for being accused of vote splitting. That's something that's of great concern to us here in Alberta

00:03:06.220 because frankly that's how we got Rachel Notley for four years. I also asked Jay some questions about

00:03:14.620 Erin O'Toole, the Federal Conservative Party convention that took place, some of his criticisms

00:03:20.780 of O'Toole's speech, very similar frankly to my own. Anyway it's a very, well it's not very long. I think

00:03:28.700 you'll find it engaging but it's much longer than some of my normal interviews but there was so much

00:03:33.820 to talk to and you guys really wanted to hear from Jay Hill so you're gonna. The interview is over 45

00:03:42.220 minutes so my advice to you is you know put on your stretchy pants, settle in, get a beer because friends

00:03:50.300 here is Jay Hill the interim leader of the Maverick Party in an interview we recorded earlier this morning.

00:03:58.700 Joining me now is Jay Hill, he's the leader of the Maverick Party. Jay thank you so much for taking

00:04:15.420 the time to do this interview you're one of the most requested guests I've ever had in five years,

00:04:21.580 five plus years I guess at Rebel News. Jay first give us a Cole's Notes version of your background,

00:04:29.580 who and what you are before we get into what the Maverick Party is and then some of the more pressing

00:04:35.180 issues of the day that I'd love to pick your brain about. Sure Sheila, first of all let me say it's a

00:04:41.100 pleasure to be with you on your program today. A brief background for myself is I was born and

00:04:47.500 raised in northern British Columbia, raised on a farm so became acquainted with hard work early in

00:04:54.060 my life along with my brothers and sister and ultimately returned to farming after working

00:05:02.700 for a period of time as a young man in the oil and natural gas fields up in northern British Columbia

00:05:10.300 and up into the territories. Continued to work in a variety of occupations in the wintertime to

00:05:16.220 subsidize a farm as a lot of farmers in western Canada do and great to have those opportunities

00:05:23.260 to do that. Ultimately became quite disenchanted with where the country was going in the early 80s and

00:05:30.300 and on into the mid 80s and I heard about this upstart political party called, in fact it wasn't even a

00:05:38.540 party when I first got involved, it was called the Reform Association. A young man at the time,

00:05:44.380 Preston Manning leading it and increasing disenchantment, disillusionment, alienation being

00:05:53.180 experienced in western Canada really fueled the start of the Reform Party. I was encouraged to run in 1988

00:06:02.540 even though I was, as I said, farming full-time with my one younger brother and my father.

00:06:07.100 I left the farm to campaign in the fall of 1988. No Reformers won in that election and we can discuss

00:06:16.860 why that was because it has some bearing on the strategy of the Maverick Party today, ironically.

00:06:23.740 But in any event, I stayed actively involved, ran again in 1993 and won election to the House of

00:06:30.780 Commons to represent Prince George Peace River, which is roughly a quarter of the land mass of

00:06:36.780 British Columbia up in the northeast corner of the province. It's the only riding that's split in

00:06:42.460 half by the Rocky Mountains. So I was pleased to do that, go as one of 52 Reformers to Ottawa in the

00:06:50.540 spring of 1994 and, or winter I guess it was, of 1994 and served for 17 years in various capacities.

00:07:02.380 The majority of those 17 years I was honoured to be asked by successive leaders to serve in a caucus

00:07:12.140 officer position, either as the whip or the question period coordinator or later on as house leader,

00:07:20.220 both in opposition and in government. Finished my career as a government minister with Stephen Harper,

00:07:27.500 as his leader of the government in the House of Commons, commonly referred to as the government

00:07:32.780 house leader. Retired in 2010, so I've been retired from, or I thought I was, retired from federal

00:07:40.540 politics in 2010, the fall of 2010. So about 10 and a half years now that I've been officially out of

00:07:48.460 federal politics. Moved to Calgary where my children were and started a one-man government consulting firm

00:07:57.900 working from home. I was very successful at that. Enjoyed working with some terrific corporate clients,

00:08:05.900 mostly in the oil and gas area of industry. And ultimately retired about a year and a half ago,

00:08:13.900 or I thought I did, until I got involved in June of last year as the interim leader of what has become

00:08:23.900 the Maverick Party. At the time it was known as Wexit Canada, that's how it applied for registration with

00:08:29.260 Elections Canada. And we changed the name last fall. So the Maverick Party, as it exists, has only been

00:08:35.580 in operation for just a few days over six months. It was the 17th of September, we got approval from

00:08:43.180 Elections Canada to change the name. And a small group of us, represented by the board of the party, have

00:08:51.500 been working full-time, basically seven days a week ever since, to try and get this upstart neophyte

00:09:00.460 federal political party off the ground and operating in time for the next election whenever the Prime

00:09:06.620 Minister decides to call it. Now, I guess my question to you is, how did you end up going from

00:09:13.580 the Reform Party motto of the West wants in to the West wants out? How did you make that journey

00:09:21.580 from, I guess, being a pro-Western federalist to now a separatist?

00:09:29.260 Well, that's an interesting question, Sheila, and it was a bit of a transition, obviously,

00:09:33.740 as, you know, a very strong federalist, somebody that had devoted a big part of my adult life,

00:09:38.860 as I just explained, to federal politics, to serving the people of Northeastern British Columbia,

00:09:45.020 and to go from that to at least a leading a party that has, and we can get into this,

00:09:52.780 a twin track approach to greater autonomy for Western Canada was quite a step. And obviously,

00:10:01.100 it surprised a lot of people, especially former colleagues, some of which are still sitting members

00:10:06.780 of Parliament with the Conservative Party, that were a bit shocked, shall I say, about this transition.

00:10:13.740 It was coming for a period of time after my exit from federal politics, but it really came to the fore

00:10:21.740 when the Wexit movement got started across the West. And of course, that was really inflamed by the 2019

00:10:30.380 election results. When we saw what is largely viewed in Western Canada as a completely incompetent

00:10:37.740 Prime Minister and government re-elected by Central and Eastern Canada. If you look at the results from 2019,

00:10:46.220 I have said, Sheila, that there is no greater example of why the West feels alienated than that re-election

00:10:55.580 of that administration of Justin Trudeau's. It is so stark that no one in Western Canada can doubt

00:11:03.660 how little our voice and our votes count than when you see Central and Eastern Canada overlook all of the

00:11:10.860 scandals that were present during that last election campaign and leading up to it, and that they still re-elected

00:11:18.060 this person that I believe is the most unqualified person to occupy the Prime Minister's office, certainly

00:11:26.140 in my lifetime, if not in the history of our country. And so I was absolutely dismayed, completely disillusioned

00:11:35.260 the day after the 2019 election. And I came to the realization that the system as it is, is not going to work.

00:11:45.420 By and large, the majority of Westerners have supported conservatives, or a conservative type of party,

00:11:52.940 like the Reform Party, down through history for over 100 years. And the reality is, is that it is not working.

00:12:02.300 We get, in our view, we get some better government when we have a government like Stephen Harper's,

00:12:07.820 but it does not solve the inherent systemic problems of how we're governed. And invariably,

00:12:15.580 the East re-elects a Liberal government at some point, and we're confronted by the same problems all

00:12:22.460 over again. And so that's what motivated me to end up where I am as the interim leader of this

00:12:29.580 particular party that is the West's only federal party in the sense that we are committed to not running

00:12:37.100 candidates anywhere, but in Western Canada and the Northern territories.

00:12:42.380 Now, tell me about the Maverick Party, because you just described, well, you alluded to, and I'd like you to

00:12:48.620 describe this twin track approach to, I'm sorry, how did you describe it? Western sovereignty?

00:12:58.220 Western, the autonomy of Western Canada. It's not unlike what we saw by the Fair Deal panel that

00:13:06.140 was struck here in Alberta that held a lot of public meetings and received input from Albertans as to

00:13:14.380 how they believe that Alberta should move towards greater autonomy from Ottawa and from the federal

00:13:20.540 government. And of course, they came up with 25 recommendations that are now sitting with Premier

00:13:26.380 Kenney and his government. And I guess we'll see how all that turns out. Maverick is supportive of the

00:13:33.740 vast majority of those recommendations, I might add. But what we structured when myself and our small

00:13:42.380 board of directors got down to determining the strategy of Maverick is we took a look at the

00:13:51.900 referendum campaigns on sovereignty that Quebec had both in 1980 and 1995, particularly the latter one

00:13:59.500 when Quebec came so close, within a hair's breadth, I might say, of achieving secession from Canada.

00:14:09.500 And what became quite obvious was that a lot of the people that were undecided, that were sitting on the

00:14:17.900 fence, as it were, became increasingly concerned through the referendum campaign. Well, they became

00:14:25.980 frightened of what might transpire if there was a yes vote. And what that did, Sheila, in my opinion,

00:14:35.100 was that it tipped them off the fence onto the no side. And that's why they lost. So what we as Maverick

00:14:43.020 members learned from that, the Maverick Party, was that somehow, if we're going to move forward with

00:14:50.540 independence for Western Canada, we have to convince the majority of Western Canadians that that's the

00:14:56.860 that's the credible option, that's the sensible option. In fact, in the end, it's quite likely going

00:15:02.540 to be the only option. If we want to put ourselves on a track to achieve our destiny and our hopes and

00:15:11.340 dreams for next generations. So what we did was we came up with this, what we call our twin track

00:15:17.420 approach for a mission statement. And what it basically says, I don't have it in front of me, so I can't read

00:15:22.460 it verbatim. But what it basically says is that we believe in greater autonomy for Western Canada, either

00:15:28.940 through constitutional change, or through laying the foundations for a future independent nation. So it's

00:15:37.260 an either or type of scenario. If we could achieve like the Reform Party set out to do substantive

00:15:43.980 constitutional modernization. As you know, Sheila, Canada's constitution was designed in the 1800s.

00:15:52.620 We're now in the 2100s. And it hasn't been substantially modernized. And so we've proposed,

00:16:00.620 under our option A, to remain within Canada, but make substantive change, five potential amendments to

00:16:08.940 Canada's constitution, which we believe if they were enacted by the other provinces and the federal

00:16:14.620 government, could chart a new course for Canada, that would help Western Canada remain within the

00:16:21.420 country, and ultimately, to achieve our hopes and dreams. Now, this to me, what you're describing is

00:16:32.620 more of a Western Bloc Québécois, I guess. Yeah, especially in that you plan to only run,

00:16:42.540 which makes sense, candidates here in Western Canada. I want to ask you, because just last week,

00:16:51.820 Premier Jason Kenney announced legislation for citizen initiated referenda. Now, it seems to me that

00:16:59.740 there's a bit of a poison pill in that legislation. And he's also turned down the idea of something

00:17:09.900 similar as to what Saskatchewan's doing, where they have an associate minister of autonomy,

00:17:15.020 for lack of a better word. And I know Drew Barnes here in Alberta has proposed something similar.

00:17:21.580 Jason Kenney has been very resistant to these ideas that give Albertans a voice or a chance to choose a

00:17:31.340 way forward. I want to ask your opinion, or I guess representative of the Maverick Party,

00:17:38.460 about this new citizen initiated referenda legislation.

00:17:43.900 Well, first of all, let me say that, and there's constant confusion on social media about this,

00:17:52.540 Sheila, is that Maverick is a federal party, even though we are only committed, as you say,

00:17:59.340 to running in Western Canada. So, it's very easy for me to sit in an armchair and criticize

00:18:08.620 provincial governments. But I'm resistant to doing that. There's lots of provincial

00:18:13.020 parties that can be critical, and rightly so, and try and hold provincial governments, whether it's

00:18:19.260 the government of Jason Kenney or John Horgan out in British Columbia, or Scott Moe or Brian Pallister.

00:18:27.500 There's opposition parties that has that as their mandate to hold them to account. And that's how

00:18:33.340 democracy works. Having said that, Maverick, obviously, as was reformed before it, very open

00:18:41.740 to citizen-initiated democracy. It would be nice if those systems, and I haven't studied the current

00:18:49.260 one that Jason has put forward, to know how workable it is. There's a fine balance there between

00:18:56.220 between citizens having the opportunity to put forward questions in the form of a citizen-generated

00:19:05.420 initiative that would ultimately end up as a referendum, where your populace would actually

00:19:13.420 cast a vote for it one way or the other, and having that basically be too easy to achieve,

00:19:23.340 I guess is what I would say. So there has to be that balance. Efforts to achieve that in the past,

00:19:29.580 I think, have failed. And I'll leave it to some others to analyze Jason Kenney's effort in that

00:19:37.660 regard. I know he's committed to a referendum. He's often talked about it for the last couple of years

00:19:43.500 on equalization. I don't personally, and Maverick doesn't support the direction he's going with that.

00:19:52.460 We are vehemently opposed to the existing equalization formula, and we will be speaking

00:19:58.140 about that whenever we get into an election campaign. Our candidates will be carrying that

00:20:02.220 message. But we're not opposed to the principle of a federation where the provinces that have resources

00:20:11.420 share them with provinces that don't to try to bring us up to equilibrium in this delivery of social

00:20:17.660 services. I think that principle that's enshrined in the constitution, there's nothing wrong with

00:20:23.020 that principle. It really strikes to the heart of most Canadians being caring and giving and generous

00:20:29.740 people. The problem is with the formula that obviously dramatically impacts on one region,

00:20:37.900 and in particular one province of the country, to transfer wealth elsewhere.

00:20:42.460 And just one of the examples I've spoken of is the fact that non-renewable resources is included in the

00:20:51.100 calculation for the provinces, like our oil in Western Canada. But hydroelectric, which is,

00:21:00.380 I've been told, the biggest generator of revenue for the province of Quebec is not.

00:21:05.900 Right.

00:21:05.980 So that seems inherently unfair, I think, for most Westerners. So that's where our direction is on that

00:21:12.620 issue of equalization, not on the principle of fairness and equity.

00:21:19.260 I guess getting back to the referendum question. So if there were a citizen-initiated referendum to

00:21:24.540 take place in Alberta, would Maverick be actively involved in the Leave side? Would you organize,

00:21:32.620 even though you're a federal party and this is a provincial issue, would you take the lead

00:21:38.620 or at least get seriously involved in the Leave side of that debate?

00:21:45.580 Well, I guess, first of all, you have to define what the question is, in fairness, Sheila.

00:21:51.820 A citizens-directed initiative that ends up as a referendum in front of the people of a province,

00:21:59.500 could be on any subject matter. So if you're suggesting it would be a question in some form

00:22:06.620 of independence for Alberta, if that's your question, then obviously we would be actively involved

00:22:14.780 in supporting that. But there's a lot of steps before that were to happen. Obviously, the Clarity

00:22:23.020 Act, the Federal Clarity Act would come into play that requires the House of Commons to debate whether

00:22:29.020 the question itself that's being presented to people, in this case, in your example, the people of Alberta,

00:22:36.460 is it a fair question? Is it going to hopefully result in a fair determination by the people of that

00:22:43.660 province on the issue of independence? So there's a lot that would go into it. But if it was a fair question,

00:22:49.980 and if it was on autonomy slash independence, yes, Maverick would be actively involved in the campaign,

00:22:57.900 as we would in any of the other three provinces, were they to go that route and have the opportunity,

00:23:03.260 the people of those provinces have the opportunity to express either for or against independence.

00:23:10.620 I want to ask you to address the issue of vote splitting. So again, because I'm in Alberta,

00:23:20.060 I always look at these things through a very Alberta specific lens. But the Wild Rose and the

00:23:26.300 PCs, they were both accused of vote splitting. And then Rachel Notley was able to run up the middle and 0.89

00:23:32.060 and win real win election back in 2015. How do you address concerns and accusations of well,

00:23:40.940 you're just going to bleed votes off the federal PC or the federal conservative party. And for that

00:23:47.020 reason, you're actually helping Justin Trudeau. How I would address that Justin Trudeau is going to win

00:23:52.220 anyway. So whatever. But how would you address that? Well, I guess I'll start by the point that you

00:24:00.780 just made for me, Sheila, is that, you know, you asked me earlier in our conversation what drove me

00:24:06.620 to take the stand that I have now. And it was the results of 2019, which very clearly reelected

00:24:14.380 Mr. Trudeau and his administration, albeit in a minority government situation, but before the votes

00:24:21.020 were ever got to being counted in Manitoba and west from there. So that's the first point to me.

00:24:27.580 The second is that, and I've been very clear on this, I've actually, because it's come up and up

00:24:33.900 many, many times over the last six, seven months, Sheila, I've been very clear on this. I've made a

00:24:39.340 number of videos that are up on our Facebook page and our website and our YouTube channel to try and

00:24:45.980 communicate this to concerned Western Canadians. First of all, when I reflect back on my personal

00:24:54.460 experience and that of the Reform Party that resulted in three successive Liberal majority

00:25:02.220 governments under former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, when I reflect back on that, the vast majority of

00:25:08.860 vote splitting took place in Central and Eastern Canada, especially in Ontario, where the vast majority of

00:25:15.500 the votes and seats are. I have already explained that Maverick's not going to run down there.

00:25:20.700 So Mr. O'Toole and his Conservative Party can have a free run down there as long as they can keep Max

00:25:27.580 Bernier and the PPC at bay. That will be the only party I suspect that will be seriously, at least

00:25:35.740 potentially splitting the vote down there with the Conservatives. So I would hope to see a very strong

00:25:43.260 head-to-head contest between the Liberals and the Conservatives in Central and Eastern Canada.

00:25:48.540 They'll have a free run, certainly from Maverick's point of view, because we're not going to be there.

00:25:53.100 In the West, there's 104 ridings in the four Western provinces. We've identified

00:25:58.380 over 40 where the Conservatives won by such massive majorities, 60, 70, in some cases, 80% of the vote

00:26:09.100 was cast in those ridings to Conservative candidates. Obviously, if you split those

00:26:15.420 Conservative votes right down the middle, and we didn't draw a single vote from the NDP or Liberals

00:26:21.020 in those ridings, and we only took Conservative votes, either a Conservative or a Maverick will be 0.62

00:26:27.100 elected. There is no way that one of the other three parties is going to be elected in those ridings,

00:26:33.020 simply because the people in those ridings by far predominantly support Conservative candidates.

00:26:41.100 So what we've been saying is, yeah, there will be vote splitting in those ridings, but it'll only

00:26:45.980 be a vote split between a Conservative and a Maverick. And the people in those ridings where we have the

00:26:51.260 opportunity to field a quality candidate are going to have an opportunity. They can vote as they've done

00:26:57.420 for over 100 years and send another Conservative to Ottawa, likely an Opposition Conservative, as you just

00:27:05.740 said, if the polls are to be believed. Or they can send a Maverick, which will be a true representation

00:27:13.180 of their views, their hopes and dreams to Ottawa to represent them in the next Parliament. That's the

00:27:20.140 choice they're going to have. In the other ridings, we're going to try as hard as we can

00:27:26.220 not to contest those ridings where vote splitting might occur and a Liberal NDP or a Green candidate

00:27:35.980 could potentially win. We'll have to see when the election is and we'll have to see how it unfolds.

00:27:41.500 But at the present time, because of our infancy, our intention is to only run in those very strongly

00:27:48.540 held Conservative ridings in Western Canada. You might ask where they are. Obviously, as you would have

00:27:55.260 guessed. Predominantly, they're in Alberta. Predominantly, they're in rural Western Canada.

00:28:02.220 There's, I think, 30 of them of the 40-some are in Alberta. The remainder, there's quite a number,

00:28:11.180 eight or nine in Saskatchewan, and then four or five in Manitoba and the same in British Columbia.

00:28:18.220 So those are the ridings we're focused on. And as I say, because we're very young and in

00:28:23.340 organizing, we've got, as of the moment, and it could change by tonight, we have 17 EDAs or

00:28:33.420 constituency organizations, associations organized to field candidates. So we have 17. So we're a long

00:28:40.380 way to go to get even to 40, Sheila.

00:28:43.900 Now, would you be open to forming a coalition government with the Conservative Party if the

00:28:51.580 Conservative Party was in that position in the next election?

00:28:58.140 I, well, I, first of all, let me say that my role is not to lead Mavericks into the House of Commons.

00:29:07.660 I've served my time, as it were. And I'm quite happy to spend what time I have left on this planet

00:29:17.980 with my grandchildren. That's what I was doing before I got involved in this. So my role, and I

00:29:22.620 think the role of the majority of the board that I represent, is to lay the foundations for the Maverick

00:29:29.660 Party and to give Westerners, where we can, a voting option for the next election. And then hopefully we

00:29:38.060 will see a very serious transitional generational change in Maverick. That's what we're seeking.

00:29:46.380 So we would hope that candidates will come forward, including at some point in the near future

00:29:53.260 candidates for the leadership of the party. So our role is to, you know, build the building blocks

00:29:59.500 for the future for Maverick and then turn it over to the next generation. So I'm not going to be

00:30:04.700 running in the next election. So as your question about a coalition, a potential coalition with the

00:30:10.860 Conservatives is certainly premature and it would be out of my hands in any event. But I will say this,

00:30:17.180 I think it's quite natural to assume that Maverick MPs, once elected to Parliament, if it's in the best

00:30:26.140 interests of Western Canada and their constituents, Maverick MPs would work very productively with a

00:30:32.780 minority Conservative government. I think that's a no-brainer. I think that, you know, however many 1.00

00:30:39.900 MPs we elect, they would do that. That would be my expectation, but that would be up to the caucus

00:30:47.180 to determine at the time. They're going to be governed by one of our, and I would say probably

00:30:53.580 one of our primary guiding principles for our party and our future members of Parliament. And that is,

00:31:00.860 they will take, as you suggested earlier, they will take a similar approach and strategy to the

00:31:05.820 House of Commons as the Bloc Quebecois does for Quebec. And it's pretty simple and it's easy to adhere to.

00:31:11.980 If a bill motion legislation is good for Western Canada and their constituents, they'll vote for it,

00:31:21.180 and they'll speak for it, and they'll thump their desk for it. That's my expectation. And if it isn't,

00:31:28.140 just like the Bloc Quebecois does for Quebec, they'll vote against it. So, pretty simple strategy,

00:31:34.380 as long as a minority Conservative government was adhering to that and not bringing forward

00:31:39.340 absolutely appalling legislation like Justin Trudeau did on C48 and C69, which we could discuss.

00:31:48.140 As long as that wasn't the case, Maverick MPs, I'm sure, would try to work productively in the

00:31:55.180 best interests of Western Canada with a Conservative minority government. But I don't think you would see

00:32:01.020 a formal coalition. It would be an arrangement similar to what the NDP has in supporting Justin Trudeau today.

00:32:09.100 You know, it's funny, because the NDP felt either broke, their leader's a flake. But boy,

00:32:14.780 they sure hold the balance of power, and they're sure dragging the Liberals even further left. And

00:32:19.340 so, for me, looking at the potential of the Maverick Party being able to drag the Conservative Party

00:32:25.180 in the other direction by helping them hold the balance of power, I think that's probably the ideal

00:32:29.900 outcome in the next election. I wanted to ask you, sorry, go ahead.

00:32:35.180 Well, and I'll just say on that, just say on that, Sheila, just a quick comment that

00:32:39.580 that's why I and Maverick Party wish Erin O'Toole and the Conservatives the best of luck

00:32:45.980 in Central and Eastern Canada. Two-thirds, roughly two-thirds of the seats are east of Manitoba.

00:32:52.460 You know, I say to Erin O'Toole, fill your boots. Go head-to-head with Trudeau down there,

00:32:58.140 and we wish you the best of luck. We want to get rid of Trudeau as much as anybody else.

00:33:03.020 But as we've already been discussing in this conversation, Sheila, the answer is not for the

00:33:07.740 West to continue voting Conservative. And we all should realize that, that we have to change something.

00:33:14.540 And we believe a step forward would be electing Maverick MPs.

00:33:19.020 Now, I wanted to ask you about the Conservative Party convention that just took place.

00:33:24.700 There were some things in there that stood out to me as a Westerner. For example, Erin O'Toole's speech,

00:33:31.500 where he addressed Quebec directly in French, and spoke to issues of Quebec autonomy,

00:33:39.980 speaking about immigration, about culture. And you know what? Great. But for Alberta and Saskatchewan,

00:33:48.060 we were sort of a throwaway line in that speech, where he said something to the effect of, you know,

00:33:54.380 if you want to feel secure in Confederation, well then just vote Conservative. But that's all we got.

00:34:00.700 There was no addressing directly the issues where we feel the same sort of alienation that a lot of

00:34:06.860 Quebecers feel. And to me, my takeaway from that speech and that convention was that the Conservative

00:34:13.740 Party of Canada feels entitled to my vote. They haven't really earned it.

00:34:21.900 Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more. I did a short video. I think it was number 28 that I've done

00:34:29.740 since last June, which is they're all up on our website. And so I did it on the weekend. I think

00:34:41.020 it was Sunday. So right after the Conservative Convention ended. And it was sort of my quick

00:34:46.780 analysis of Erin O'Toole's speech. And I had a little bit of fun with it. But there was an underlying,

00:34:54.700 very serious question. And it basically is exactly what you just said, Sheila. He spoke at considerable

00:35:03.180 length to display his command of French. I don't speak French and don't understand French. So I

00:35:10.140 don't know how well it was as far as his command of the language. But as you say, he certainly made a huge

00:35:19.420 effort to reach out to Quebecers to suggest that the block and the way they traditionally vote is not

00:35:27.900 the answer that they should come to the Conservative Party. I don't have a problem with that. But as I

00:35:32.940 said in my video, I too, I think as most Westerners, certainly most Western conservatives were looking for

00:35:40.860 some sign of recognition of the historical and current grievances, legitimate grievances of Western Canada

00:35:49.340 and Canadians, and some solutions. And instead, what did he say? His central message was that

00:35:58.460 Conservatives have to change to appeal to urbanites. OK, that to me was a slap in the face to every rural

00:36:06.860 Westerner in particular. You know, in other words, you're expected to change a lot of your thinking

00:36:13.900 so that people in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa might vote for Aaron O'Toole. That was his message.

00:36:21.340 And so I pointed out the hypocrisy of on one hand saying that Conservatives have to change,

00:36:27.660 but on the other hand saying, well, wait a minute. No, in Western Canada, we want you to vote the

00:36:32.780 same as you always have. So change, but don't change. And I too, as you said, Sheila, I was quite

00:36:43.100 frankly, very disappointed that he didn't properly address Western alienation in some form. He had one

00:36:52.380 line about a drive by smear against Wexit movement. But other than that, he didn't really mention it.

00:36:57.980 And as you say, his answer to it, to this threat to national unity, which I obviously believe that

00:37:06.220 it's a very real threat, given the growth of Maverick Party. His answer was, well, the best answer is for

00:37:14.540 your security and comfort is to elect a Conservative government. As if, you know, him getting the job and

00:37:21.980 being able to sit in the PMO office, the Prime Minister's office is somehow going to solve our

00:37:27.500 problems. Well, we know for a fact it's not. And so I thought actually his speech really played into

00:37:33.740 the central messages of Maverick. I did too. I felt like more of a separatist after I watched that.

00:37:42.300 And in particular, when he said, you know, the debate around climate change is over. Now,

00:37:47.180 whatever you might feel about climate change or don't feel about climate change, I don't think

00:37:52.060 the debate should ever be over with regard to any contentious political issue. And for me,

00:37:58.140 it is definitely a political issue and less of a scientific one. And again, that felt like

00:38:05.180 Erin O'Toole was willing to concede Western issues to appeal to Eastern voters, because conceding

00:38:13.180 the high ground on that issue trickles down into all sorts of issues of the carbon tax, of pipelines,

00:38:21.580 of oil and gas development, export issues. And it felt like we, in the West here, we were being

00:38:29.580 basically abandoned, neglected, taken for granted, again, to earn those downtown Toronto,

00:38:36.140 downtown Montreal votes that I don't think he's going to earn anyway.

00:38:39.180 Well, as I said, I wish him luck in however he wants to approach that, whatever platform he comes

00:38:48.060 up with. Another big part of his speech, of course, because he emphasized it, was that he intends to

00:38:54.860 come up with a serious plan to combat climate change. Look, myself and Maverick Party, we haven't

00:39:04.140 released our climate change platform yet. I'm not going to say it's going to be a serious plan,

00:39:13.500 but it's going to be different because I don't believe that the approach taken by virtually all

00:39:20.060 the other parties and the range, but you're all on the side that Canada must do more. Canada must do more.

00:39:26.540 In other words, we need to flog ourselves and punish ourselves in order to show leadership globally that

00:39:34.140 we're fighting manmade climate change. Okay. And you're quite right, whether it's this carbon tax,

00:39:40.700 which I might remind Westerners that Justin Trudeau again broke another major promise when he said he

00:39:48.140 wasn't going to raise the carbon tax. It's going up 33% on the 1st of April. 33%.

00:39:56.620 Who does that punish? It punishes the working poor by far the most, right? Because increasingly,

00:40:05.100 Canadians that are on the edge as far as making decisions whether they can afford to heat their homes,

00:40:11.020 drive their vehicle to work, if we ever get back to work, or I lost my train of thought.

00:40:21.740 That's why we need generational change, Sheila. We need the next generation, the new younger leader for

00:40:30.540 Maverick. But all joking aside, the reality is that our approach to climate change will be different. I

00:40:38.940 believe that the Conservative Party under Andrew Scheer, ironically, had a pretty solid policy,

00:40:45.020 by and large, in the last election campaign. The problem was that Conservatives themselves seemed

00:40:50.540 fearful of explaining it to Canadians. So our approach is really going to focus especially on all the 0.95

00:40:59.500 improvements that we've made, most of which has been accomplished in the private sector, most of which

00:41:07.980 has not been forced upon them by governments. Certainly the oil and gas industry, mining, agriculture,

00:41:17.020 a lot of the primary resource industries have taken great strides on the issue of the protection of the

00:41:27.180 environment. Okay. And we should be having a worldwide summit, I believe, to discuss how we can distribute that

00:41:37.340 type of technology to the world's large emitters. If we want to get serious about fighting global,

00:41:45.020 and I don't call it global climate change, but certainly global pollution, real pollution,

00:41:50.380 we're not talking about carbon now, then we should be sharing that technology and figure out a way to share

00:41:57.340 that technology with the Chinas and Russia and India and Indonesia that are the real problem when it 1.00

00:42:05.260 comes to emissions worldwide. Rather than trying to punish Canadians through attacks or through bringing

00:42:12.140 in regulation that cripples our industries and puts us at a great disadvantage with our global

00:42:20.140 global competition. Why are so many oil and gas companies and other industry leading companies

00:42:27.500 leaving Canada? That's what we need to determine and we need to fight against that. So a long-winded

00:42:35.100 answer is the way of a former politician, Sheila, but what I'm suggesting is that you're quite correct,

00:42:43.100 again, that Aaron O'Toole should not be following the lead of these other parties that are saying,

00:42:49.980 well, you know, I'm going to buy into the Paris climate change accord. I'm going to buy into net emissions

00:42:58.220 by 2050, you know, and no matter what damage it does to the economy. Now, in fairness to Aaron,

00:43:04.620 he did say jobs come first in his speech. And I did take a bit of heart from that. But we really won't

00:43:11.820 know whether he's true to that until we see what his serious plan is about climate change.

00:43:18.940 Well, yeah, like when I listened to his speech, I thought, you know what, if you think that global

00:43:22.940 emissions are the problem, then Western Canada is the solution. We are not the problem. Because we have

00:43:29.820 spent decades developing technology to bring emissions down, if you care about those sorts of

00:43:34.860 things. One other thing that wasn't in the speech I wanted to ask you about before I let you go,

00:43:39.740 because you've been so generous with your time. One thing missing from Aaron O'Toole's speech was

00:43:44.620 also the issue of civil liberties versus the pandemic. I didn't hear anything about that.

00:43:49.340 I didn't hear really anything about the, I mean, of course, a lot of these civil liberties

00:43:55.420 infringements are coming at the municipal level and at the provincial level. But I think there are

00:43:59.340 things that all politicians should care about the rights of citizens. And I didn't hear a word

00:44:05.580 about the COVID hotels. So Justin Trudeau snatching up Canadian citizens and stuffing them into these

00:44:11.660 COVID jails against their will and against the Charter of Rights and Freedom Section 6 provides for

00:44:18.940 mobility rights. I didn't hear Aaron O'Toole say anything about that or free speech or anything like

00:44:26.060 that. And I thought, you know, these are deeply conservative issues, free speech and rights.

00:44:31.660 And I just didn't hear anything about that. What would be the maverick approach, I guess,

00:44:36.860 to civil liberties and in particular, the pandemic?

00:44:39.740 Well, because as you said in your question, Sheila, the vast majority of the restrictions that have

00:44:49.980 been being imposed come from provincial governments, as they should. I would say that Maverick has been

00:44:57.980 very hesitant to take a strong position one way or the other. And let me answer this way. Am I and is

00:45:05.500 Maverick concerned about this infringement of civil liberties? Absolutely. And we should be. And every

00:45:14.220 Canadian should be concerned and keeping an eye on that to the greatest extent possible. And I fully

00:45:20.300 support them expressing their opinion one way or another on that. Having said that, I have a fair

00:45:27.420 degree of sympathy, having been in government and having sat at a cabinet table where there's any number

00:45:34.220 of very difficult decisions are grappled with as a government trying to ensure the best for their

00:45:42.140 citizens. I have a lot of sympathy for the provincial governments as they grapple with this issue.

00:45:48.940 And so there are two schools of thought, Sheila. One is, you know, that the government must do

00:45:55.260 everything possible to protect the vulnerable. Okay. So that's on sort of one extreme, no matter what,

00:46:01.500 even if it means killing our economy, apparently, you have to try and protect the vulnerable.

00:46:06.140 And then on the other extreme, it's the people that say civil liberties come first. And, you know,

00:46:11.420 if people have to die, well, so be it. And the vast majority of Canadians and the people I care about

00:46:17.820 the most, which is Western Canadians, since that's where Maverick is, I believe fall in the middle. 0.99

00:46:24.300 They're quite willing to give up a civil liberty, if you want to call it that,

00:46:28.700 and wear a mask in order to enter a grocery store. They, you know, try as best they can for social

00:46:35.580 distancing. These types of, I would call fairly minor infringements of their rights. Okay.

00:46:45.900 And that's where the majority fall and certainly where I fall. You know, I'm willing to do that. 0.70

00:46:50.700 If, if it's even my new minutely possible that I'm helping to protect a vulnerable person by doing

00:46:57.740 that. So as I say, I've been trying very hard not to be overly critical. I think that there's lots of

00:47:05.180 people out there that are being quite critical and you know, that's, that's their democratic right.

00:47:11.180 You know, I uphold that. At the federal level, yes, specifically about these hotels, whether it's

00:47:18.780 right or wrong, I'll leave the courts and people that are fighting that to determine that. We heard

00:47:26.700 some stories about employees working there, sexually attacking people that were interned there. Of course,

00:47:37.580 the justice system and the government should be seized with those types of allegations and drive that

00:47:45.900 forward as quickly as possible to resolution. I will say there's lots of criticism that is justified

00:47:54.700 and directed at all levels of government of how this has been handled for the last year now,

00:47:59.180 where we've been into this for a year. You look at the fact that originally,

00:48:03.660 um, Justin Trudeau was very slow to close our borders in particular flights from China. Uh,

00:48:11.020 you know, he said he and his, and, uh, Madam Tam, the, uh, the federal health officer said,

00:48:17.020 you know, nothing to worry about here, folks, you know, we'll just tighten things up a little

00:48:21.020 bit and we'll be fine. Well, we weren't fine. Uh, and, uh, and then, you know, it progressed from

00:48:26.700 there or digressed from there. I perhaps, and, uh, you know, then the next thing we heard, uh,

00:48:32.620 that was finally revealed was he gave away, uh, how much of our, uh, PPE, our personal protective

00:48:38.940 equipment, uh, to China and other nations around the world. Then we found out, oh, wait, wait a minute.

00:48:43.820 Uh, you know, it's important for our healthcare workers to have that equipment. Oh, we don't have 0.55

00:48:48.700 enough. You know, so they've bungled this unquestionably from the very get go in how they've

00:48:55.100 handled this. They were highly critical of Sweden for not closing down their economy. I don't see

00:49:01.180 where Sweden's a hell of a lot worse off on a per capita basis than Canada is. Uh, and then the

00:49:06.460 vaccine more, more, uh, recently the vaccine procurement, he promised us, he being Trudeau promised

00:49:12.300 Canadians. Don't worry. I've got your back. I'm going to look after this for those Canadians that

00:49:16.940 want to be vaccinated and not all do. Um, you know, we'll make sure it's available. Well,

00:49:23.020 what's happened? We're number 43 in the, in the world, as far as procuring and administering vaccine

00:49:29.420 to those people that want to get the shot. Um, I noticed just yesterday that California

00:49:35.500 is moving close to having half of their citizens, some, uh, you know, 20 some million people

00:49:42.620 vaccinated. We've got a 10th of that roughly, uh, vaccinated and, and they're threatening,

00:49:49.340 you know, we were talking earlier about citizens initiative. They're talking about

00:49:52.940 recalling their governor because they're so upset with his ability to, uh, uh, to procure

00:50:00.220 the vaccine and get the shot to the people that want it. So lots of room for criticism. I think

00:50:07.340 Justin Trudeau, as he has with so many files, the evidence is ever clear, Sheila, this guy is the

00:50:14.460 most incompetent prime minister in the history of Canada, bar none. And that the central Canada

00:50:21.500 and Eastern Canada is still intent, according to the polls in reelecting him for a third term

00:50:28.380 is not just astounding. It's appalling. I completely agree. Now, Jay, I know you've

00:50:34.540 been so again, very generous with your time. What is the best way if my viewers liked what

00:50:40.540 you had to say, they want to get involved, what's the best way for them to do that?

00:50:46.380 To go to our website, Sheila, thank you for the reminder, uh, maverickparty.ca. We're easy to find.

00:50:52.780 We're on Facebook, we're on YouTube, uh, and we have our own website where, uh, people can volunteer.

00:50:58.940 Uh, they can buy a membership. It's, uh, 10 bucks. It's 10 bucks in your, your, yourself,

00:51:04.620 your children and your grandchildren's future. Uh, I'm doing this. It came out of retirement

00:51:10.460 because I have three young grandchildren that I just cannot see under the current system that we're

00:51:16.300 governed under in Canada, where they are going to have anywhere near the opportunities I was blessed

00:51:21.500 with. And, uh, that's why I'm involved and why increasingly a lot of Westerners are involved with

00:51:27.340 Maverick. Well, Jay, I think that's a great place to leave the interview. Again, thank you so much

00:51:32.220 for your time. You answered a lot of questions, um, that I had. Um, and I think you, uh, might have

00:51:39.020 alleviated a lot of concerns that people who are, uh, reluctant, uh, separatists may have had about

00:51:46.860 issues of vote splitting and, um, you know, other concerns that they may have had with the idea of

00:51:52.380 throwing their vote behind a separatist party. Well, uh, thank you very much, Sheila. And maybe

00:51:59.180 I'll just add that, uh, ask people when they go to our website, check out our guiding principles,

00:52:05.740 because we believe we're neither right or left. We get accused of being alt right. It's nonsense.

00:52:11.500 Uh, we believe we're a common sense Western party that is advocating for Western Canada in,

00:52:18.540 in any form, whether it's greater autonomy within Confederation, failing that it's laying the

00:52:23.580 foundation for us independent Western nation, as I said earlier. And, uh, I think it's just common

00:52:29.020 sense based upon our, our 150 year history and our experience down through that history.

00:52:34.380 So we welcome everyone to a maverick party.

00:52:49.420 Well, there you have it. I let Jay Hill have his say. I tried to ask questions. I thought our viewers

00:52:55.900 would like answers to now, you know how to get ahold of them. If you want to get involved,

00:53:00.460 you know how to do it. If you have criticisms to send him, you know how to do that too. Well,

00:53:05.740 everybody, that's the show for tonight. Thanks for hanging in there. Thanks for tuning in.

00:53:11.260 We'll see everybody back here or wherever I might be at the same time next week. And remember,

00:53:18.860 don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.

Rebel News Podcast - March 25, 2021

INTERVIEW： Jay Hill of the Western regional separatist Maverick Party

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