Rebel News Podcast - The future of Teck Mine and Calgary's accountability problem

00:00:00.000 Hello Rebels, I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're listening to a free audio-only recording of my

00:00:04.980 Wednesday night show, The Gunn Show. My guest tonight is William Macbeth and we are talking

00:00:10.160 about, well, just about everything from the tech resources protests to the conservative party

00:00:17.440 leadership race to Calgary City Council expenses and how the NDP have suddenly gotten themselves

00:00:25.320 involved in all of that. Now, if you like listening to the show, then I promise you,

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00:01:31.240 What happens if Tech's Frontier Oil Sands Mine doesn't get approval from Justin Trudeau's

00:01:51.480 Liberal Cabinet? I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.

00:02:01.240 Tech's Frontier Oil Sands Mine is a $21 billion project that has been wandering through

00:02:19.040 the regulatory process hell in Canada for 10 years. Tech meets every single requirement to

00:02:27.500 be approved currently under the Liberals' legislation. And yet, Justin Trudeau's Federal

00:02:32.300 Cabinet is unsure if they're going to approve the project at all. The Liberals seem to be having an

00:02:37.580 internal civil war about what's going to happen to Tech. The more radical environmentalist wing of the

00:02:43.680 Liberal Party says, nuke it. The more pragmatic side of the party wants to build it. The fight for

00:02:50.740 Tech just isn't a fight for Alberta jobs, thousands of them. It's actually a fight for the future of the

00:02:56.060 Liberal Party. And the Liberals are having it right now in Battleground Alberta. Isn't that ironic?

00:03:03.200 My guest on the show tonight is William Macbeth from Save Calgary. We are going to be talking about

00:03:08.400 Tech's Frontier Oil Sands Mine, the Conservative Party leadership race, and some more local issues

00:03:14.020 in Calgary. The Green Line LRT boondoggle and out-of-control council travel expenses coming from a

00:03:21.120 somewhat unlikely place. A conservative city councilor. Here's the interview we recorded yesterday afternoon.

00:03:28.260 Joining me now is my friend William Macbeth from Save Calgary. We have so many things to discuss

00:03:49.160 today. But first, let's talk about tech resources. Tech's Frontier Oil Sands Mine has been in

00:03:59.160 regulatory hell for 10 years. They've really done everything that they can do. They've met every

00:04:06.880 obligation that they can meet. And now it seems like the Liberals are injecting more into the process

00:04:13.640 that aren't actually there. And this is a $21 billion project. It's got signed agreements with

00:04:20.560 every First Nation that it even comes close to. And yet, the environment minister, the new environment

00:04:27.120 minister, says that he's not going to rule out deferring a decision on the Tech Oil Sands Mine. I think this

00:04:37.040 has less to do with all these new excuses the Liberals are coming up with about climate change and getting to

00:04:43.060 net zero by 2050 and more to do with hanging on to power. I think if they approve tech, they're going

00:04:51.260 to lose the NDP support and their minority government is going to fall. That's what I think is going on

00:04:59.120 here. I think it is, as much as the Liberals like to beat the climate change drum, I think this is just

00:05:06.560 petty politics and they're holding Alberta's future at stake. But what do you think? Because you've been

00:05:12.820 around for a while, you've been examining this too, much like I have. What do you think?

00:05:17.640 I think you're right, Sheila, that this was a project that played by the many, many, many rules

00:05:24.280 that groups put on it. It went out of its way to work with First Nations groups to develop a real

00:05:31.100 partnership between industry and First Nations so that both groups would profit. I actually think

00:05:38.180 it's an example of a project, the exact kind of project we want built right here in Canada that

00:05:44.880 adds, you know, will add so much to our economy and create so many jobs. But you're absolutely right.

00:05:50.740 What you're seeing now, and I think there's a bunch of different things at play, but politics is

00:05:56.080 definitely at the heart of it. The Liberal cabinet ultimately will decide whether or not this project

00:06:01.800 gets to go through. I'm told that cabinet is divided. And on one side, you've got, say,

00:06:09.520 Chrystia Freeland, who has been spending most of her time, it seems, out in this end of the country,

00:06:15.860 trying to repair some of the damage done by her boss over the past four years. And then on the other

00:06:22.240 side, you've got a lot of Quebec and Ontario MPs who frankly think this is a terrible thing. They don't

00:06:30.560 want it to go ahead at all. So why, you know, where's an actual debate is happening? Is it not

00:06:38.240 wanting to lose the NDP support for their minority government? Is it two nascent liberal leadership

00:06:45.300 campaigns, one for Chrystia Freeland and one for some more left-wing liberal candidates that's actually 1.00

00:06:52.140 dividing the Liberal cabinet? We don't know. I think an important question, though, is where is the

00:06:58.260 Prime Minister? This is a national project, national in scope, that will have a Canada-wide impact. And our

00:07:05.140 Prime Minister is nowhere to be seen. I think he might be in Africa, cozying up to dictators to try and get 1.00

00:07:12.760 Canada a seat on the UN Security Council. But he's certainly not here at home making the case for Alberta

00:07:18.860 and Canadian industry. Yeah, I think if this project doesn't get approved, there is going to be no

00:07:26.060 extinguishing or containing the separatist sentiment. Because, you know, as Shannon Stubbs, Conservative MP

00:07:33.260 Shannon Stubbs rightly put, stated, and I'm paraphrasing here that this is Canada leaving Alberta behind.

00:07:40.860 And I think the Liberals are also, I mean, they're experiencing their own version of the Northern Gateway

00:07:50.980 pipeline protests that we experienced, you know, I suppose it was in the last decade, when the left rallied against

00:08:00.680 the Northern Gateway pipeline, and that pipeline was approved. However, the Liberals cancelled it.

00:08:05.800 I don't think the Liberals want to draw attention to the fact that there are these protests, I guess,

00:08:14.120 I suppose, it's by lefties against the Liberals all across the country. Because I think the Liberals took

00:08:23.060 great pleasure in the fact that that happened to Stephen Harper.

00:08:27.280 No, and it's, you know, I, of course, would prefer every single project to get swift and overwhelming

00:08:35.040 approval and support. So we can get, you know, shovels in the ground and Albertans and Canadians

00:08:39.900 back to work. But it is funny to watch the Liberal talking point change, because it used to be all

00:08:46.000 Stephen Harper's fault. That's why we didn't get pipelines. He didn't consult. He didn't address

00:08:51.260 concerns from environmentalists or First Nations groups. All of that would be different under this

00:08:56.820 new, shiny, sunny ways Liberal government. And then, of course, they've just discovered that there's

00:09:02.760 no pleasing the zealots and extremists whose business every day is to try and shut down Canada's

00:09:10.780 oil and gas sector and Canadian industry in general. So now you get the Liberals in a rock

00:09:17.640 and a hard place between they're pleasing nobody. They're not pleasing the far left who think they

00:09:22.800 should just leave every drop of oil and gas in the ground. And they're certainly not pleasing those of

00:09:27.760 us in the middle and on the right, who think that actually Canadian oil is produced to the very

00:09:32.760 highest environmental and ethical standards, and the world could deeply benefit from having more

00:09:37.920 Canadian energy powering countries right across the planet. So I guess we're going to find out how

00:09:45.080 strong will these Liberals are about actually getting some of these projects finished. But I would say,

00:09:52.180 because I think Shannon made a very good point. If they allow the Tech Frontier Mind project to fail,

00:09:58.920 if they allow vocal special interests within the Liberal Party and without to stop a project that

00:10:06.540 went through 10 years of rigorous, regulatory, nonpartisan approvals with consultations with

00:10:14.380 environmental groups and First Nations, if they allow that project to fail, they are taking a lip match

00:10:18.900 and holding it up to the fuse of an Alberta independent bomb that will detonate and possibly

00:10:26.560 blow this country apart. Well, and that might be the only thing that ever saves Alberta is to separate

00:10:33.360 itself, unfortunately, from the rest of the country in that, look at what Tech has done in the last 10

00:10:41.940 years. If Tech can go through all that and still not meet these peculiar social justice demands being put

00:10:50.240 forward by the Liberals, no company would ever opt to invest in Alberta again. None. I mean, how do you ever get

00:11:00.480 anything built ever again?

00:11:01.600 You won't. There will never be another large scale energy project built in this country. No, at least not by the

00:11:09.260 private sector. We'll enter a new era of government pipelines being built to transfer oil possibly, you know, if

00:11:17.840 they decide they want to do that at all. But there won't be a private sector case to be made because a company that played by the

00:11:24.260 rules and did everything right, so let's say the exact opposite of SNC-Lavalin, so a company that played by the

00:11:30.860 rules and did everything right, can't get a project clearly in the national interest built, then there is no hope for a

00:11:39.460 private sector energy infrastructure construction in this country.

00:11:44.020 Well, and just a quick side note, I was thinking, I really haven't seen much from the NDP in support of this. In fact, I've actually

00:11:52.440 seen some former, thankfully unelected NDP MLAs expressing, you know, opposition to tech going forward. It was four

00:12:03.600 years of Rachel Notley pretending to be pro-oil and gas, and right now, when she could lend her voice to the

00:12:09.640 conversation to say that this is a bipartisan issue here in Alberta, I'm not hearing much from them, have you?

00:12:16.480 No, no, you're absolutely right. Now, the federal NDP have never made any bones about it. They do not like our

00:12:23.640 oil and gas sector, they do not like pipelines, and in their mind, we should not be in the oil and gas

00:12:29.120 business as a province or as a country. But Rachel Notley and her former government, they tried to tell us that

00:12:35.620 they were both environmentally conscious and pro-Alberta, you know, responsible resource development.

00:12:41.560 However, they aren't being particularly vocally supportive of the Tech Frontier Mind project right

00:12:48.080 now. And some of them are lending maybe not overt support, but certainly, you know, sending friendly

00:12:56.000 ways to the people who are opposed to this project. Why is it Rachel Notley standing shoulder to shoulder

00:13:01.760 with Premier Kenney jointly demanding that Ottawa approve this project for all Albertans? That's, I think,

00:13:08.540 what she said she would do when she was Premier. Always stand up for our energy sector. She has an

00:13:14.520 opportunity to do it right now, and so far, you're right, it's been just silence from her.

00:13:19.000 Yep. Now, that's a great way for us to segue into this next story. I read it, and I couldn't

00:13:27.520 believe what I was reading. I had to read it a couple times. The NDP's Joe Ceci. The NDP's Joe Ceci.

00:13:34.480 Canada's worst finance minister. Alberta's definitely worst finance minister ever. Joe Ceci wants the

00:13:42.780 province to look into city councillor Joe Magliocca's Quebec expenses. Please explain to me why Joe Ceci

00:13:52.660 is pretending to be a fiscal conservative all of a sudden, and why is the NDP weighing in?

00:14:01.040 Well, he was certainly never bothered about fiscal conservatism when he was a city councillor or a

00:14:07.580 finance minister, I can tell you that. This is just plain politics. I think most people know that

00:14:13.100 Joe Magliocca is a small city conservative. He did, I think, really disappoint us when he went on that

00:14:20.480 trip to Quebec for the Federation of Canadian Municipalities meeting and spent really quite a

00:14:26.560 large amount of money on hospitality. It turns out that the people he said he was eating and

00:14:32.280 drinking with, well, they weren't there. They've issued statements saying they weren't there. But

00:14:36.400 why this is now the cause celebra of the provincial NDP? Well, I think it's because they're just trying

00:14:42.880 to hurt conservatives in general and help their lefty friends trying to get elected to city council

00:14:48.500 next year. Now, Jeremy Farkas, great councillor, has a motion today that would try and fix some of

00:14:55.540 these issues, limit how many people go to the Schmooze Fest that is the Federation of Canadian

00:15:01.120 Municipalities meeting, which are always held in the very nicest high-end hotels. They don't spare any

00:15:08.680 expense when they travel on our tax dollars. But Calgary, you know, we sent 10 of our 15 councillors

00:15:15.360 to that meeting. What did we get out of it? Well, nobody knows. We got a big bill, that's for sure.

00:15:20.640 I don't see why we send any more than one or even none, because I frankly think the Federation of

00:15:26.960 Canadian Municipalities doesn't actually achieve very much for cities because cities have so many

00:15:32.000 different and competing values. I do think, actually, though, the issue of councillor expenses

00:15:36.880 extends well beyond just going to FCM meetings. I talked about a little bit on the radio earlier today

00:15:43.760 about if you look through council expense reports, which is always a fun way to spend your time,

00:15:49.520 I can tell you there are councillors expensing meals, expensing goodbye gifts to their staff that

00:15:56.160 are worth hundreds and hundreds of dollars. You know, when I give a gift, I use my own money to

00:16:02.720 give a gift to someone because I want to show my personal appreciation. Calgary City councillors are the

00:16:07.040 highest paid in the entire country. I assure you they can afford to pay for their own gifts.

00:16:11.600 And one councillor, even through a party, celebrated the opening of Calgary's bike lane.

00:16:17.360 So, to me, there's lots of opportunity to find cost savings, and I think we need to take,

00:16:23.520 we really need to clip council's wings when it comes to what they can and cannot expense,

00:16:27.600 and how much they can expense.

00:16:28.960 Yeah, you know, I was thinking about, I think this is the same meeting that the

00:16:37.600 City of Medicine Hat boycotted. They didn't send anybody to this

00:16:43.040 Council of Municipalities meeting, in particular because it was held in Quebec and they felt that

00:16:48.080 Quebec was opposing basically everything that Medicine Hat is about with oil and gas. And

00:16:54.880 and Medicine Hat has its own oil and gas company, so they weren't about to send their councillors

00:17:00.880 there. They thought it was a bad idea. It didn't show fiscal prudence in a time when they're calling

00:17:06.960 for, I suppose the right word is austerity across the board. And so they didn't send in anybody. Now,

00:17:15.040 Calgary is not known for taking strong stances in that manner.

00:17:19.520 So yeah, like you, I'm shocked to see that Councillor Meg Leoca went there and blew a bunch of money, 0.99

00:17:26.880 because yeah, he is known as one of the fiscal conservatives on council, and I thought maybe

00:17:31.760 he would be somebody who we might consider to be the next mayor. You know, someone who would throw his

00:17:39.520 hat into the ring, and I just don't see that now. This one trip might have nuked any future aspirations for

00:17:45.600 him. I can tell you, on behalf of Safe Calgary, who we are a fiscal watchdog, we spent a lot of time

00:17:52.880 fighting on behalf of taxpayers to keep more money in their pocket. We were disappointed in Joe, because

00:17:58.960 we considered him to be one of the very few who actually have a voting record that is mostly

00:18:06.240 fiscally conservative and responsible. I'm hoping that it's a one-time aberration. He, of course,

00:18:12.800 was council's designate to the FCM sitting on their board. So he probably should have been the only

00:18:20.160 councillor going to that FCM meeting, and he didn't need nine of his colleagues, including Mayor Nancy

00:18:25.920 there. But we hope that this is a one-time thing, and that he once again gets back to his fiscally

00:18:31.280 conservative roots in the future. Yeah, here's hoping. Now let's stay in Calgary and talk about

00:18:38.640 the never-ending debacle that is the green line. Now, I saw you tweet earlier today that you want

00:18:45.120 to flatline the green line. This is never-ending, just money pit that nobody can seem to sort out. Am I

00:18:53.760 right? Yeah, you know, usually you have to build a train before there's a train wreck. But in this case,

00:19:00.160 this train wreck started before a single piece of track was ever laid in it. It's been 10 years

00:19:06.080 since we first started looking at this green line plan. When it was first proposed, it was going to

00:19:11.600 be this massive 46-kilometer north fell through the downtown core route. It was going to have this

00:19:17.840 underground tunnel through the downtown core. It was going to go under the river. And then year by year,

00:19:23.840 it has just been plagued with problem after problem. Senior managers have walked off the project team.

00:19:28.560 They're now only proposing a line half the size of the original, but for the same, in fact, even more

00:19:35.200 money than what was originally promised. So half the route for more money. And even as of today,

00:19:42.080 past council's deadline to administration to come up with a concrete achievable plan, there is still no

00:19:49.120 green line plan that is technically feasible. So I don't understand why city council has put all of its

00:19:56.560 eggs in this green line baskets. It could bankrupt our city. It could cripple our ability to have city 0.98

00:20:04.800 services for years and years to come. But council's unwilling to look at any other alternative other

00:20:12.320 than this full LRT line right through the heart of downtown core and across the boat river.

00:20:18.400 What is the cost that it's at? Where did it start and what is it getting to, I guess is the right question.

00:20:25.040 So the original plan was $4.5 billion to run from the southest of south communities in Calgary,

00:20:35.040 right to the northern edge of the city, a length of 46 kilometers. When they cut the project in half,

00:20:41.280 it's now going from kind of south to really just on the other side of the Bo River. That is now going to

00:20:49.120 cost $5 billion. And as I said, only go half the distance for what they propose. So I don't understand

00:20:57.200 how you can get half the track for the same money or even more money in this case. And to us, it's just

00:21:04.080 yet another example of why this is the wrong approach for transiting Calgary.

00:21:07.760 Well, and when government builds something, you can routinely see 70% cost overruns, like the Trans Mountain

00:21:19.120 pipeline. It's, you know, approaching $12 billion to build the thing 70% more than what was estimated by Kinder

00:21:30.200 Morgan when it was their project. Um, because taxpayers are just that never ending money pit

00:21:35.880 that the government can reach into when they don't feel like making the hard decisions. Um,

00:21:41.880 I wanted to ask you, um, before we wrap up, uh, the interview, um, you've been a conservative

00:21:49.320 activist for a long, long time. You've run campaigns, um, and you really sort of have your

00:21:58.440 finger on the issues. I want to ask you about the conservative party of Canada race before I let you go.

00:22:04.920 We've got, uh, Peter McKay, who I thought would blow my hair back, but he's having the opposite

00:22:11.640 effect. Like I, I, I appreciate how bad his campaign is because I, it's providing a lot of

00:22:19.800 comedic material for me on Twitter. On the flip side, O'Toole didn't impress me in the last leadership

00:22:28.200 race. I thought he would, and he didn't, but he's impressing me now. And he's saying all the right

00:22:32.920 conservative things and he's leading on all the issues. He's not waiting for a CBC reaction to find

00:22:39.080 out where he needs to stand on the issues. And we also have John Baird who is musing about coming

00:22:44.920 into the race and he hasn't said anything yet, but it seems to be that he's being pushed in

00:22:50.440 or invited in by Jason Kenney. Um, I wanted to get your opinion on, um, what's unfolding in the

00:22:57.320 conservative leadership right now. No, I think your assessment is spot on. It's so interesting.

00:23:04.040 Peter McKay, of course, ran to be leader of the PC party quite a long time ago, back in 2003.

00:23:10.520 And I think he's always held leadership ambitions for the new conservative party. So since he's had

00:23:18.040 more than 15 years to get a potential run ready, you'd think it'd be going a little bit better than

00:23:24.520 it has been. And I honestly can't tell really what he stands for on those things because all we're

00:23:31.480 getting are platitudes and, um, sort of slubs campaign gaps, which certainly aren't inspiring

00:23:41.240 me to put an X next to his name on the ballot. Um, I really hope John Baird decides to get in.

00:23:47.800 I think we could use, uh, some excitement, a good and exciting leadership race. Um, I don't know

00:23:53.880 Aaron O'Toole that well, but so far, um, you know, he does, has been putting out some, some decent

00:24:00.520 policy. I do think what's missing though, from the race so far are big ideas, you know, like what,

00:24:07.800 what does a 21st century conservative party, what do we stand for and how do we really shake up

00:24:15.400 people's perceptions of what we are? And if you look, and, and I'm certainly not suggesting that

00:24:21.720 we need a Donald Trump type character in our race. I am. Well, you're very entitled to your

00:24:29.880 opinion. I say this, what Donald Trump brought to his party, to the Republicans was shaking off

00:24:36.840 the status quo and building an entirely new, bigger coalition of voters who voted Republican and

00:24:43.640 hence helped them win elections. If you look in England, you've seen Boris Johnson win the conservative

00:24:48.920 seats in ridings that have never, ever voted conservative by talking about issues that are,

00:24:55.320 that matter to, to working people, to, to middle income, lower middle income workers who felt abandoned

00:25:02.360 by the left, uh, when they became obsessed with climate change and, and, and those, and identity

00:25:08.280 politics. So I'd love to see someone who really turns people's opinions around and, and makes people

00:25:16.120 say, well, I share those values. I share values of standing up for hard work, of paying less tax,

00:25:22.520 of having a government that actually understands the issues I'm facing. Certainly as an Albertan,

00:25:28.680 I want someone unapologetically pro our oil and gas sector, who will see the jobs and employment crisis

00:25:36.040 in our province as a crisis and do things to try and help them. And beyond that, I think we just need

00:25:41.720 to make the conservative party a party that appeals to enough Canadians with great policy so that we

00:25:49.080 just don't eat out a majority government once in a while. We routinely win conservative majority

00:25:55.480 governments and start changing the nature of our country. Yeah, I agree with you. I think we

00:26:00.680 need someone who appeals to the Dan McTeagues of the world. You know, the former liberals who are fed up

00:26:10.360 with Justin Trudeau. They're pro oil and gas. They care about making sure that families have more

00:26:16.280 money in their pockets. They've been left behind by the liberals. And why don't we start rounding them

00:26:22.680 up? And we really don't have to move the party in any direction to convince people that the values

00:26:28.600 they hold are conservative values. We're just not all that great at communicating them, or we haven't

00:26:34.200 been in the past. Trump did this with what I would call the Reagan Democrats in some of those purple

00:26:41.080 states. And like you say, it helped build this broad pro free enterprise coalition that is really

00:26:51.160 changing the face of the United States. And I think it's great. It's bold. It's appeals to the young and the

00:26:57.640 old, which I think is really great. William, I wanted to give you a chance to tell everybody

00:27:03.400 where they can find and support the great work that you do at Save Calgary.

00:27:09.080 Well, thank you. We always appreciate you giving us a chance to talk about how people can find us

00:27:14.600 and get in touch. So you can find us online at savecalgary.com. Certainly, if you feel so moved,

00:27:21.400 we'd love any donation you'd like to give us. We are entirely funded by grassroots donors.

00:27:26.760 Later today, we'll be releasing a video about the green line, talking in more detail about some of the

00:27:33.000 things you and I talked about today and laying out the risks that have come with it. Again,

00:27:38.040 our campaign to flatline the green line. And you can check us out on social media, on Twitter,

00:27:43.080 and on Facebook, both Save Calgary. And certainly, we urge you to please sign up to our mailing list

00:27:49.560 and to share those newsletters with your friends and family and get them to sign up too,

00:27:53.800 because city council's biggest weapon is people not paying attention to the issues and letting them

00:28:01.080 get away with their big government, big tech, every decision made behind closed doors agenda.

00:28:07.240 And they can't do it if Calgarians are aware of it and pushing back. So we really want people to focus,

00:28:13.000 not just once every four years for a couple weeks in the lead up to an election, but what council's

00:28:18.280 doing right now that could cost you and your family thousands of dollars?

00:28:23.240 You know, that's a really great point, William. We know that our city councils are the farm team

00:28:29.720 for progressive politics. That's how Joe Cece became the finance minister. He started off

00:28:36.280 at Calgary city council. He didn't have accountability there and he just failed upwards.

00:28:41.240 So it's really important for conservatives in particular to hold their city councils to account,

00:28:48.040 because these politicians need to know that we're always watching how they're spending our money.

00:28:53.480 William, thank you so much for coming on the show. We'll have you back on real soon. And thank you so

00:28:57.720 much for being so generous with your time today. Thanks, Sheila. Happy to be here. Thanks.

00:29:03.320 Thanks. You know, I think William is so right when he says the conservative party needs a disruption

00:29:17.000 and it needs a disruptor as its leader. It needs to reset, reevaluate and define itself because just

00:29:27.720 not being Justin Trudeau, it's not enough. It's disaffecting long-term conservatives and it's not

00:29:34.760 giving young people a reason to get involved in the party. And that's got to change or the

00:29:42.040 conservatives will never ever even get close to power again. Well, everybody, that's the show for

00:29:47.960 tonight. Thank you so much as always for tuning in. I'll see everybody back here in the same time,

00:29:53.320 in the same place next week. And remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.

Rebel News Podcast - February 13, 2020

The future of Teck Mine and Calgary's accountability problem

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